Qwen3.8-27B-NVFP4-FP8ATTN

Mixed-precision quantization of Qwen/Qwen3.8-27B: NVFP4 (4-bit) on the MLP stack, FP8 (8-bit) on every attention projection. 22.90 GB on disk against the 55.59 GB bf16 original — a 2.43x reduction.

Built with llm-compressor, GPTQ oneshot over 1,024 text calibration samples.

precision	modules
NVFP4 W4A4, group_size 16	MLP gate_proj / up_proj / down_proj
FP8 W8A8 dynamic	self_attn.* (16 layers) and linear_attn.* (48 layers)
bf16 (untouched)	vision tower, lm_head, linear_attn norms

Why this exists, and why you probably want it over our pure-NVFP4 pair

We first published Qwen3.8-27B-NVFP4-GPTQ-mm / -txt, which quantize only the MLP and leave all 401 language-model attention modules in bf16. That was a worse trade than we realized, and measuring the two side by side is what showed it:

build	size	c=1	c=128	c=128 vs bf16
Qwen/Qwen3.8-27B (bf16)	55.59 GB	86.5	2,141.4	—
our pure NVFP4 (MLP only)	30.14 GB	126.3	3,186.2	1.488x
this build	22.90 GB	138.8	3,513.3	1.641x
this build + --kv-cache-dtype fp8	22.90 GB	138.9	3,586.3	1.675x

Output tokens/s, in=2048 out=256, single B200, ladder 1/8/32/128 with three repeats per level, median. Serving config is identical across every row and was read back from the engine rather than assumed: max_num_seqs=256, max_model_len=32768, gpu_memory_utilization=0.90, CompilationMode.VLLM_COMPILE.

Smaller and faster at the same time. Using 8-bit in the right place beat using 4-bit in more places — attention was carrying memory traffic that a blanket-MLP 4-bit pass never touched.

Quality — not distinguishable from bf16

MMMU validation, multiple-choice only, max_new_tokens=16384, temperature 0, one prompt shared by every arm, scored by code rather than an LLM judge. Restricted to the 232 items that produced a verdict in all six arms, because arms lose different items to truncation and unpaired accuracies cannot be differenced.

build	MMMU-val MC (232 paired)	McNemar vs bf16	discordant pairs
Qwen/Qwen3.8-27B (bf16)	0.8836	—	—
our pure NVFP4 -txt	0.8922	p = 0.688	6
this build	0.8707	p = 0.581	13
this build + KV FP8	0.9009	p = 0.344	10

No arm separates from bf16. Read this as "the quantization did not break it", not as a gain — 4-bit does not add knowledge, and these gaps are well inside the noise at n=232.

⚠️ n=232 can show the absence of a large effect, not of a small one. MMMU only; multiple-choice only. Answer extraction failed on 0 items in every arm.

⚠️ This build truncates more often than bf16 at a 16,384-token budget (22 items vs 13, verdict rate 0.896 vs 0.953). The pairing above absorbs that, but we cannot explain why it reasons longer. Treat it as an open question, not a settled property.

Quality — math reasoning moves further than on the pure-NVFP4 pair (added 2026-08-22)

The MMMU result above stands. Looking on other axes, one moved.

GSM8K, n = 600, greedy, vLLM v0.27.1 server + lm-eval 0.4.12, identical serving config across all three arms:

build	strict-match	delta vs bf16	p
Qwen/Qwen3.8-27B (bf16)	0.5333	—	—
…-NVFP4-GPTQ-txt (MLP-only 4-bit)	0.4783	−5.50pp	0.056
this build	0.4500	−8.33pp	0.004

This build loses more math accuracy than the pure-NVFP4 pair it was meant to improve on, and the direction is consistent with what it does: it compresses the attention and SSM projections that the pair leaves in bf16. More quantization, more loss on the axis that is sensitive to it.

Korean and general reasoning are unaffected (same run, n = 600):

task	bf16	this build	delta	p
HAERAE	0.7709	0.7654	−0.55pp	0.821
KoBEST	0.6770	0.6670	−1.00pp	0.712
belebele-ko	0.9000	0.8983	−0.17pp	0.922
ARC-Challenge	0.5700	0.5733	+0.33pp	—
IFEval prompt-strict	0.3050	0.3179	+1.29pp	—

Rebuild noise floor — why the GSM8K gap above is attributable (added 2026-09-01)

We separately requantized Qwen3.8-27B-NVFP4-GPTQ-txt (same model, same recipe, same calibration set, second GPTQ run only) to measure how much a GSM8K comparison can move from the quantization process alone, independent of any real change. That gap is the floor:

metric	rebuild-to-rebuild gap (floor)
GSM8K (en) strict-match	3.56pp
GSM8K (en) flexible-extract	2.27pp
gsm8k_ko strict-match	2.13pp
gsm8k_ko flexible-extract	1.37pp
RAG absent-context fabrication rate	27.1pp (7.5σ)

We only call a GSM8K gap attributable to a build's recipe once it clears roughly 2x its metric's floor — below that, statistical significance alone does not settle it, because the floor is a second source of variance the p-value does not model.

This build's −8.33pp is 2.34x the 3.56pp floor. It clears the bar, with room to spare but not by a huge margin — call it attributable but not overwhelming. The -GPTQ-txt sibling's −5.50pp in the table above is only 1.55x the floor and does not clear it; see that card's own noise-floor section for the fuller reading. In other words: quantizing attention as well as the MLP is the more defensible explanation for the extra math loss here, but the comparison that shows it is closer to the noise floor than the p-values alone suggest.

Throughput: the advantage above is regime-specific (added 2026-08-22)

The 1.641x table near the top of this card is measured at in = 2,048, max_model_len 32,768, max_num_seqs 256, concurrency 128 — short prompts, high concurrency. It holds in that regime.

It reverses in the opposite regime. Measured on a single B200 with 142k-token prompts, max_model_len 1,000,000 (YARN factor 4), max_num_seqs 8, free-form generation:

concurrency	…-GPTQ-txt	this build
1	105.9	112.5
4	321.7	277.0
8	477.8	369.9

Aggregate output tok/s. This build is ahead at concurrency 1 and behind by 1.29x at concurrency 8. We have not isolated which of the three changed variables (prompt length, context window, max_num_seqs) drives the reversal, so treat it as "measure in your own regime" rather than as a ranking. What is settled is that the top-of-card table does not generalize to long-context, low-concurrency serving.

⚠️ kmmlu_direct and humaneval from the same batch are excluded as parsing/format failures (kmmlu 0.00–0.12 across subjects; humaneval exactly 0.0000 on all arms). gpqa is gated on the Hub and was not run.

Relationship to RadixArk/Qwen3.8-27B-NVFP4

That checkpoint uses the same idea through a different toolchain (modelopt): attention at FP8, MLP at NVFP4, plus a calibrated static FP8 KV cache. Measured on our Metis serverless path the same week, its tuned single-stream throughput is 138.9 tok/s — the same figure this build reaches. Same recipe, same number.

⚠️ At c=128 it reaches 3,845 tok/s against our 3,586. The candidate explanation is that its KV scales are calibrated and baked into the checkpoint while ours are set dynamically at serve time. We have not separated that axis, so we do not claim it.

Where this fits against W4A16 (added 2026-09-01)

A separate same-run kernel-throughput comparison on this model family (single B200) put a plain NVFP4 arm at 3.52x the ceiling throughput of a W4A16 (Marlin) arm — 3,597.9 vs 1,022.8 output tok/s — with 3.12x better tok/J and 5.1x lower time-to-first-token (2.093s vs 10.664s). In that same comparison, an FP8-weighted arm ran at 0.86x of the NVFP4 arm's throughput while being only 0.25 GB larger — a weak trade next to NVFP4's margin.

For hardware sizing: this build's 22.90 GB fits comfortably on a 32 GB-class card with room for KV cache, so you do not need to fall back to W4A16 there. Its -GPTQ-txt sibling (30.14 GB, MLP-only NVFP4) is the one that runs out of headroom on a 32 GB card — see that card's own hardware note.

Long context: native 256k, and fp8 KV cache is nearly free (added 2026-08-31)

This model's max_position_embeddings is 262144 — 256k context is native, not an extension. KV cost is 64 KiB per token: only 16 of the 64 layers are full attention (the other 48 are linear-attention and contribute effectively nothing to the KV cache), so the accounting is 16 layers x 2 (K+V) x 4 heads x 256 head_dim x 2 bytes.

Turning on --kv-cache-dtype fp8 on this hybrid architecture nearly doubles the KV pool — 901,744 to 1,759,679 tokens, 1.95x — for what measures as free: throughput was unchanged (c=1: 66.5 to 67.6 tok/s, c=4: 72.9 to 72.6 tok/s) and quality was unchanged (absent-context fabrication rate identical to the decimal; extraction score 0.5458 to 0.55, within rounding). This is the basis for recommending --kv-cache-dtype fp8 in the Usage command below rather than treating it as an optional flag.

Ledger: 2026-08-31-metis-edge-rebuild-floor-and-ctx256.json.

Usage

vllm serve ThakiCloud/Qwen3.8-27B-NVFP4-FP8ATTN \
  --max-model-len 32768 --max-num-seqs 256 --kv-cache-dtype fp8

Blackwell (SM100+) for the native FP4 kernel path. --kv-cache-dtype fp8 is what produces the 1.675x row above; without it you get 1.641x.

Scope

One model, one recipe, one engine build, one GPU generation. Evaluated on MMMU, GSM8K, IFEval, HAERAE, KoBEST, belebele-ko and ARC-Challenge. Code and video behaviour are unmeasured here; kmmlu_direct and humaneval were excluded as format failures and gpqa is gated on the Hub. Long-context is measured on the throughput axis only (see the regime section), not on quality. The 1.641x figures are for one traffic shape (in=2048, out=256); prefill-heavy and decode-heavy mixes are not covered.

Ledger: 2026-08-19-qwen38-27b-recipe-6arm-b200.json.