text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

[...]

   By no means -- I chose the spelling deliberately, Art.  Yours must be
a *straight*jacket because you are so demonstrably incompetent in Gay
matters, particularly the various Peter Gays.  (It was also chosen
partly in honor of your insightful scholarship concerning Sonnet 20,
which you characterized as "...the MOST HETEROSEXUAL poem ever written
in the English language [emphasis in the original]" -- not that one
would expect you to recognize English if you encountered it.)

[...]

   You mean, the Folger doesn't accept loonies?  It's little wonder --
the Folger attracts even more of them than special relativity, angle
trisection, or Fermat's Last Theorem.

   Perhaps the Folger meant "A beanie not for them asses," Art?

   A nicker is (among other things) a soVEReign, Art.

   What?!  Is [email] actually repudiating one
of his own monimental discoVERies?!

   Good grief, Art -- haven't you figured that out yet?!  Boy, you're
slow on the uptake!  "Drink your Oualtine" is an anagram of

                     I.O.U. URL, Art N. (donkey).

And here's the URL I owe you, Art:

<http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/>.

   Or, it might be that "Drink your Oualtine" has far-reaching
consequences for Tudor Heirheads.  Indeed, the text admits an explosive
anagram in French:

                     Oui, Art, Lynne K. -- du roi.

This affirmation of your and Lynne's royal lineage ought to keep Senator
Streitz, Elisabeth Sears, and other Tudor Heir lunat...er...enthusiasts
happily occupied for quite a while.

   INPNC score zero -- in short, about on a par with most of your
anagrams, Art.


author: Neil Brennen

subject: Re: Shakespeare Trust invades Baltimore...

text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Wouldn't that be "confuse everybody"?


author: Art Neuendorffer

text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

       This is always a busy time of year for you.
       (Am I going to get a postcard this year?)

       What has happened to Elizabeth.
      It's been over a month since her last post.

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

    Einstein's belief in quantum "hidden variables" has indeed crumbled.

  And "punctuated equilibrium" has punctured some Darwinian concepts.

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

            I've always equated "L." with you, Dave.

               WELL TEMPERED CAVALIER
               DE VERE: WATERMILL PLACE
-------------------------------------------------------------
   http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~lgboyd/chapter5.htm

<<The de VERES were an ancient dynastic family seated at their ancestral
   village of VER (from which they took their name), near Bayeaux and
the River VIRE, in MANCHE on the NORMANdy coast of present-day northern
 France. The name of the town itself came from the "VER," a Norse word
   meaning "fishdam" that the Vikings had introduced into NORMANdy,
  and etymologically akin to the Old English word "weir" meaning a
   "fish dam," and originally spelled both "Wier" & "Wear" also,
        hence the diverse spellings of the FAMILY name.>>
------------------------------------------------------------------

    As soon as I get my hands free I'll be "coming out."

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

           It had something to do with Ovaltine.

Art Neuendorffer


author: Lynne

text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Very good, David. The master of the quick comeback.

-- not that one

Art appeared to recognize the English I spoke, which is of course the
Queen's English. He did say he didn't expect an English accent from
me, but that is, of course, not the same thing as not recognising I
spoke with one.

Now, now, I did have yankee bucks with me. Two of them actually,
Stritmatter and Neuendorffer.

Perhaps you'd like one instead?
Though its eyes are very crossed. Pity 'tis, 'tis true. Must be the
strain of trying to recopy all those sonnets. ;)

Don't get your knickers in a twist, David. Ten nicker=ten quid=ten
pounds. Ah, the barrer boys of my youth.

I am become a Fille du Roi. Art is too tall, I fear, to be an ideal
match for a Frenchman.

LynnE


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

       Indeed. . . I didn't recognize Lynne at first
  (why did this Canadian have a quaint English accent?)

          I was expecting more the sister
          of the McKenzie brothers, eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
             http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086373/

<<Something is rotten at the Elsinore Brewery. Bob & Doug Mackenzie (Rick Moranis & Dave Thomas) help the orphan Pam regain the brewery founded by her recently-deceased father. But to do so, they must confront the suspicious brewmaster and two teams of vicious hockey players.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

                 Only as the supposed author:

http://gifts24.com/g/i/item.html?theId=49&rev=%2Fg%2Fb%2Fbrowse.html%3FvId%3D37%26bId%3D8

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

      Perhaps, a BEANY for a CECIL & HORATIO:
-------------------------------------------------
              "BEANY AND CECIL"
    http://www.farewellanalog.net/beany.htm

The characters introduced on the first telecast included CECIL the Seasick Sea Serpent, Captain HORATIO K. Huffenpuff (a Baron Munchausen-like character which Clampett originally considered naming Captain Hornblower), and Huffenpuff's nephew Beany Boy (reminiscent of the precocious Charlie McCarthy) a cheery bright-eyed lad dressed in blue coveralls and wearing a cap with a propeller on top. Another of his characters was the villainous Dishonest John, patterned after one of Clampett's former Warner Brothers bosses. Captain Huffenpuff, the commander of the good ship "Leakin' Lena", was a braggart with a penchant for telling tall tales. Along with CROwy the CROw, they sailed the seven seas in pursuit of adventure, exploring the universe from the undersea world to outer space. Their familiar arch foe was Dishonest John, whose sneering-laugh "Nya ha ha!" was echoed nation wide by delighted fans. These fans included many noteable personalities including Lionel Barrymore, Jimmy Stewart and Joan Crawford. Albert Einstein, addressing a group of Nobel prize winners in 1950, stopped abruptly at 5 pm, telling his audience he had to leave as it was "Time for Beany".
----------------------------------------------------

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

-------------------------------------------------------------
Cotton velveteen, having the surface raised in ridges =>

Corduroy, n.  [Prob. for F. corde du roi king's cord.]
 -------------------------------------------------------------
                Titus Andronicus  Act 2, Scene 4

DEMETRIUS     If thou hadst hands to help thee knit the cord.
-------------------------------------------------------------
         All's Well That Ends Well  Act 4, Scene 5

Clown   O madam, yonder's my lord your son with a patch of
        velvet on's face: whether there be a scar under't
        or no, the velvet knows; but 'tis a goodly patch of
        velvet: his left cheek is a cheek of two pile and a
        half, but his right cheek is worn bare.
-------------------------------------------------------------

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

               He repudiated it years ago.

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

            I EIGHT it already, Dave.

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

      Corduroy, n.  [Prob. for F. corde du roi king's cord.]
------------------------------------------------------------
BLOOM  Are you a Dublin girl?

ZOE ( Catches a stray hair deftly and twists it to her coil .)
   No bloody fear. I'm English. Have you a swaggerroot?

BLOOM ( As before .) Rarely smoke, dear. Cigar now
  and then. Childish device. ( Lewdly .) The mouth can
  be better engaged than with a cylinder of rank weed.

ZOE Go on. Make a stump speech out of it.

BLOOM ( In workman's Corduroy O-VERalls, black gansy with red floating
and apache cap .) Mankind is incorrigible. Sir Walter Raleigh brought
from the new world that potato and that weed, the one a killer of
pestilence by absorption, the other a poisoner of the ear, eye, heart,
memory, will, understanding, all. That is to say, he brought the poison
a hundred years before another person whose name I forget brought
the food. Suicide. Lies. All our habits.
---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.nps.gov/fora/raleigh2.htm

<<Sir Walter Raleigh was already planning another colony in Virginia.
This one would be more ambitions, with its own coat of arms and the title,
"Cittie of Ralegh." It would be agrarian rather than militaristic, less
an adventure than a commitment. Raleigh's decision to locate it on
the lower end of the Chesapeake Bay was prompted by Lane's report of
friendly Indians and a good natural harbor. The inclusion of 17 women
and 9 children among the 110 colonists would make this a long-term,
self-perpetuating settlement. Instead of wages, each settler was deeded
a 50-acre plot, thereby giving him a stake in the undertaking. John
White, the artist who had accompanied the first voyage,
 was appointed Governor, to be aided by 12 assistants.

When the three ships sailed in May of 1587, the plan was to stop briefly
at Roanoke Island to resupply Grenville's party. But when they arrived
in July, the pilot Fernandez insisted that the summer was too far
advanced to go further, and the colonists were left at Roanoke.

In 1590, John White got passage on a privateering voyage.
As the party stepped ashore, there was no sign of the colonists
except the letters "CRO" carved on a tree. The houses had been
taken down and a palisade constructed, on one post of which
was carved "CROATOAN," but there was no Maltese CROss.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

-----------------------------------------------------
         "VERO NIL OKRAcoke NUDITY"
 http://www.sunnydayguide.com/ho/xtras/lostcol.html
----------------------------------------------------
       The saga known as The Lost Colony
      http://www.hatterasrealty.com/lost.html

<<In 1587, 20 years prior to the colony at Jamestown,
116 men, women, and children vanished without a trace.
No clue of this thriving community has every been found,
save for the eerie carving upon the bark of an old,
twisted oak: "CROATAN" >>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
PYTHAGORAS: "the philosopher of CROTONA" [CROATAN?]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Francis Meres's _Palladis Tamia, Wits Treasury_ (1598):

"As the soule of EUPHORBUS was thought to live in PYTHAGORAS :
so the sweet wittie soule of Ovid lives in mellifluous & honytongued
Shakespeare, witnes his Venus and Adonis, his Lucrece, his sugred
Sonnets among his private frinds, &c."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ovid's Metamorphoses, Book XV, PYTHAGORAS (ed. Arthur Golding)

For soules are free from death. Howbee't, they leaving evermore
Theyr former dwellings, are receyvd and live ageine in new.
For I myself (ryght well in mynd I beare it to be trew)
Was in the tyme of Trojan warre EUPHORBUS, Panthewes sonne,
Quyght through whoose HART the deathfull SPEARE of Menelay did ronne.
I late ago in Junos Church at Argos did behold
And knew the target which I in my left hand there did hold.
Al things doo chaunge. But nothing sure dooth perrish.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
THE HISTORY OF ANAGRAMS

<<According to some historians, PYTHAGORAS, in the 6th century B.C.,
used anagrams to discover philosophical meanings. Anagrams were
believed to have mystical or prophetic meaning in Roman times.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
PYTHAGORAS: "the philosopher of CROTONA" [CROTONA?]
----------------------------------------------------------------------


text:
"Neil Brennen" <[email]> wrote

   No. It would be "confuse  EVERybody."

       (And annoy Reynolds.)

Neufer


author: David L. Webb

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

   I'll be much busier around St. John's Day, Art.

   This year's Shakespeare Authorship CoVERup Conspirators' Conclave
will be held in the U.S., Art (since the new Nautonnier is from the
Western Hemisphere, the center of gravity of the Priory has shifted
towards the New World.)  Thus you should not expect greetings from
exotic locales this year, Art.  However, if you'll send your address,
I'll try to oblige.

   One hopes that she will soon return and regale us with more hilarious
crap about Southampton's theatrical wig.  And I feel sure that you have
still another motive for wishing for her return: you were learning lots
of fascinating physics from Elizabeth, weren't you, Art?

   Einstein's belief in hidden variables is not his main contribution.
Special relativity certainly has not "crumbled," although that may well
be news to you, Art.

   That has not caused Darwin's theory to "crumble" -- although if you
were educated in Kansas, this too might be news to you, Art.

   Then you have led a sheltered and happy life.  But while we're on the
subject of the infernal, no doubt this will interest you, Art:

<http://news.pravda.ru/society/2004/04/03/61766.html>.

I know how fond you are of the Weekly World News; I have little doubt
that you will hail the document as genuine.

[...]


text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Well, Roger went to UMass, so he qualifies as Yankee. Art is probably as
Yankee as clam chowder with tomatoes in it.


text:
http://gifts24.com/g/i/item.html?theId=49&rev=%2Fg%2Fb%2Fbrowse.html%3FvId%3D37%26bId%3D8

"Lynne" <[email]> wrote

               Our eye-cross'd glover.

Art


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Lynne) wrote:

   As I've observed before, [email] is
remarkably slow on the uptake -- he should have figured out that you
would probably speak with a British accent from your spelling alone, not
to mention your cultural references, etc., even if he somehow oVERlooked
your explicit mention of your English origins.

   Art is much too close to the MASON-Dixon line to qualify as a Yankee.

   Must be Stratbismus.

   One could try to argue that Paris Match is to journalism as Art is to
Shakespeare scholarship, but I fear that the former is far too sane to
be likened to the latter.


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

David, do you mean the story of the space alien that was kept as a pet?


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

                          Natch!  ;-)

     Did the old one 1) die, 2) quit, 3) get voted out, 4) other?

   You keep a running list of every mistake I've made on HLAS and you can't keep track of my address?

  Since Bacon was deeply involved in the editing & publication of the Folio while Marlow was a pure phoney from the get go it is somewhat easier to deal with Elizabeth than any of the Marlovians.

            It shows that even Einstein was fallable.

      Oh. . .you mean Alfred Russel Wallace's theory!
---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wku.edu/~smithch/index1.htm

<<[Wallace] was a pioneer in the application of sound scientific reasoning methods to the assessment of Martian geographical and climatological conditions (in a successful effort to counter the claims of Percival Lowell and others regarding the Martian "canals").

Thomas VERE Wallace, Wallace's father, did not die when Wallace was a child. In Wallace's autobiography My Life he specifically states that the family moved "to Hoddesdon in 1837 or 1838, where my father died in 1843." Wallace was not "lower class"; in fact, his parents came from quite upstanding stock: his father had been trained and sworn in as a lawyer (but because of inherited wealth did not practice), and had reputedly hung around with leisure-seekers (and met Beau Brummel) when he was younger.

The famous papers on natural selection were delivered in July 1858 at a meeting of the Linnean Society, not the Royal Society.

Wallace did not coin the phrase "survival of the fittest"--Herbert Spencer did. It was Wallace, however, who suggested that Darwin use the phrase as a means of conveying the basic idea of natural selection to nonspecialist readers.

Wallace was not a spiritualist in his "later years" only. He first publicly supported study of the belief in 1866 (and was certainly a full convert by 1869); thus, he lived as much of his life as a spiritualist, as not.

Wallace did not abandon natural selection in his later years. He aggressively defended the theory in print right up through his final year of life at the age of ninety.>>
---------------------------------------------------

                  Only 13 years?

  How did Faustus manage to wrangle 24 years?
-----------------------------------------------------------
      _The English Faust Book_  (1592)

Further, I couenant and grant with them by these presents, that at the end of 24. yeares next ensuing the date of this present Letter, they being expired, and I in the meane time, during the said yeares be serued of them at my wil, they accomplishing my desires to the full in al points as we are agreed, that then I giue them full power to doe with mee at their pleasure, to rule, to send, fetch, or carrie me or mine, be it either body, soule, flesh, blood, or goods, into their habitation, be it wheresoeuer: and herevpon, I defie God and his Christ, all the hoast of heauen, and all liuing creatures that beare the shape of God, yea all that liues; and againe I say it, and it shall be so. And to the more strengthning of this writing, I haue written it with mine owne hand and blood, being in perfect memory, and herevpon I subscribe to it with my name and title, calling all the infernall, middle, and supreme powers to witnesse of this my Letter and subscription.
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usao.edu/~facshaferi/FAUST.HTML

<<In the early part of the sixteenth century a magician by the name of Johann Sabellicus also known as Georg Faust attracted notoriety all across the German speaking lands. During the same era, Johann Fust, Gutenberg's respected collaborator and successor, practiced his printer's trade in the city of Mainz. The earliest record we have of Faust's existence is a letter Johannes Trithemius of Sponheim wrote on 20. August 1507 to the court mathematician-astrologer Johann Wirdung of Hassfurt who had apparently inquired about Johann Sabellicus and was eagerly awaiting the magician's arrival. Trithemius called Faust a glib con-man and drifter who beguiled a gullible public for glory and profit and should be whipped for blasphemy. He mentioned that Franz von Sickingen had recommended Faust for a teaching position in Kreuznach, and that Faust molested several boys under his care. Faust fled when the affair became known. It is interesting that Trithemius links pederasty and black magic (Palmer 82-86, Theens 17).

                 Doctor Faustus: the Volksbuch

In 1587 the Spies Volksbuch was published and became a bestseller. An English translation followed almost immediately (Marlowe wrote his Doctor Faustus at some point between 1589 and 1592 after reading the English version). The Volksbuch describes Faust as having been born FROM PIOUS PEASANT PARENTS. He moved to WITTENBERG, where he lived with A WEALTHY UNCLE who loved him like a son. He studied theology but kept evil company and began to lead a godless life. Frustrated with theology he called himself a physician. Paracelsus comes to mind. Despite his success, Faust was still dissatisfied, and finally conjured up a member of the Satanic horde, Mephostopheles. Believing that he would be able to control the demonic forces he had unleashed, he entered a contract with that representative of Satan who promised to help him discover the secrets of the universe which up to that point had been concealed from his mind.

Faust signs the contract in blood, and proceeds to crisscross the land as travelling philosopher, lecturer, magician, astrologer, clairvoyant. Mephostopheles takes him on several major excursions--all across Europe, beyond the clouds to the stars, and through hell. The demon answers Faust's questions concerning the origin and destiny of the universe in purely materialistic terms and helps him perform such feats as building a castle in the mountains, flying, re-attaching severed body parts, growing flowers and grapes in mid winter, and siring a son with Helen of Troy. Toward the end of the twenty-four years, Faust installs his apprentice, WAGNER, as his heir, and, on the final day of his life, accompanies a group of students to an inn in the vicinity of Wittenberg where the devil tears him to pieces and leaves the horribly mutilated corpse, limbs still twitching, ON THE DUNG HEAP.>>
------------------------------------------------------

The Historie of the damnable life, and the deserved death of Doctor Iohn Faustus,
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Texts/faustus.html

Newly imprinted1 , and i conueni- ent places imperfect matter amended: according to the true Copie printed at Franckfort, and translated into English by P. F. Gent. 1592.

<<Faustus hauing godly parents, and seeing him to be of a toward wit. . .in all Faustus his demaunds or Interrogations, the [devil] should tell him nothing but that which is true. . . presently not three fadome aboue his head fell a flame in manner of a lightning, and changed it selfe into a GLOBE: yet Faustus feared it not, but did perswade himselfe that the Diuell should giue him his request before hee would leaue: Wel, let vs come againe to his Coniuration where we left him at his fiery GLOBE: Faustus vexed at the Spirits so long tarying, vsed his Charmes with full purpose not to depart before he had his intent, and crying on Mephostophiles the Spirit; sodainly the GLOBE opened and sprang vp in height of a man: so burning a time, in the end it conuerted to the shape of a fiery man. This pleasant beast RANNE ABOUT THE CIRCLE a great while, and lastly appeared in manner of a gray Frier, asking Faustus what was his request.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
      From Henry Bluett to Richard Weeks, July 4, 1613:

  "On tewsday last there was acted at the GLOBE a new play
called all is triewe wch had been acted not passinge 2 or 3 times
  before.  there came many people to see it in so much that ye
  howse was very full and as the play was almost ended the house
  was fired wth shooting off a Chamber wch was stopt wth towe
  wch was blown up into the thetch of the house and so
  burnt downe to the ground."
--------------------------------------------------------
    The King's players had a new play, called All is True,
     representing some principal pieces of the reign of
     Henry VIII, which was set forth with many extraordinary
  circumstances of pomp and majesty....Now, King Henry making
     a masque at the Cardinal WOLSEY's house, and certain
  chambers being shot off at his entry, some of the paper, or
  other stuff, wherewith one of them was stopped, did light on
    the thatch, where being at first but an idle SMOKE, and
   their eyes more attentive to the show, it kindled inwardly,
and RAN AROUND LIKE A TRAIN, consuming within less than an
   hour the whole house to the very grounds.  This was the
  fatal period of that virtuous *FABRIC* ; wherein yet nothing
   did perish but wood and straw, and a few forsaken cloaks;
    only one man had his breeches set on fire, that would
    perhaps have broiled him, if he had not by the benefit
       of a provident wit put it out with bottle ale.

          From a letter written by Sir Henry Wotton
         (formerly a spy for Essex) on July 2, 1613:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


text:
"Neil Brennen" <[email]> wrote

   My dad was from "Washington Irving country":
 Tarrytown, New York (a block from Sleepy Hollow Cemetery).

   My mom is from "Elisabeth Sears country":
                  Dedham, Massachusetts.

     I'm more of a GREEN-back, though,
      (complete with Masonic pyramid)

Art N.


text:
"Art Neuendorffer" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Art, that's the best pun on this thread; next time I see you I'll give
you another Ovaltine ring...

And I speak with an English accent, dahling, because I grew up in
London.
Lynne


text:
In article <9Cclc.2707$[email]>,
 "Neil Brennen" <[email]> wrote:

   I haven't seen that one, but it sounds pretty typical of the Weekly
World News.  Rather surprisingly, one of the unanticipated outcomes of
the demise of the Soviet Union is that "Pravda" has become a tabloid, as
the story whose link is provided above underscores.  Some months ago
_Pravda_ ran an article suggesting that the reason the U.S. was so eager
to attack Iraq was that Saddam Hussein was very close to reverse
engineering a UFO that had landed in the desert, and the U.S. wanted to
beat him to it (evidently the results of trying to reverse engineer the
one that landed at Roswell have thus far proved disappointing).

   Since Art has a most amusing  history of relying upon farcical web
sites of what can only very charitably be called dubious reliability
(e.g., Brotherblue, a site exposing various conspiracies of space aliens
from so many stellar systems that one would need a scorecard to keep
track of them all), I have little doubt that he found the _Pravda_
article both interesting and authoritative.


text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

   I'm not permitted to divulge details that pertain to the Bloodline,
Art.

   Of course I don't, Art; that would be a full-time job for a VERitable
army of people!  I can only recall a VERy few of the highlights.

   For all I know you've moved, Art.  (Besides, the Priory's main
computer crashed.)

   There appears to be a sort of Law of Conservation of Crankery in
operation: as soon as Elizabeth Weird departs, Zenner and glossoLalia
Roth obligingly step in to coVER the humor deficit.  But I don't doubt
that you find Elizabeth preferable to any of the Marlowe partisans, Art
-- except for "Dr." Faker, none of the latter has taught you any new
mathematics or physics.

   In the famous photo of Einstein on a bicycle, he looks a little
wobbly, but I doubt that he's actually fallable, Art -- you shouldn't
underestimate the remarkable stability of a moving bicycle.

[...]

   Evidently Faust was a better negotiator.  Or, perhaps the increase in
the supply of souls simply lowered the asking price.


author: Chess One

text:
You can call her 'ducks' Art, or even "ducky". Its not rude, however, I
suggest you decline the Ovaltine which is, and made from the sediment of wee
paleolithic beasties mixed with a coloidal substance, possibly river-clay,
plus tepid milk. Important: Should you meet The Quaen, avoid use of this
term.

Whereas, where I come from, you could call me "my 'ansome", but not "my
cocker" unless you were female (these protocols are strictly observed) which
is also not rude, though startling to emmetts.

And whereas a male would address a female of any age as "maid" as in
"Sheem've turned into some fine great maid, inun?", or possibly a more
fraternal "my 'ansome" depending on one's intent, if unsure of your
interlocutors sex and with all obvious Saxons, use "my 'ansome", as in the
formally polite: "Whyne youm didun look where'ns youms arr goin' my 'ansome,
scattup arreee?".

Since you've met Lynne, did she say "London" as "Lun'un?" and how long was
the daaahhhhh in "dahling"? Do you notice Lynne avoids even writing words
containing the letter 'r'? People from London and East Anglia can't even
pronounce it, and basically don't know their r's from their elbows. She
would pronounce your name "Aht". "Aht Noon-doff-ha".

Cohdially, Phil


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Lynne) wrote:

   The more interesting question is: Why doesn't Art speak English?
Many Baltimorons do.


text:
Thracian tyrant "David L. Webb" wrote

              You've got that Wright. Homo FUGE
-------------------------------------------------
     _LINES ON THE MERMAID TAVERN_ by John Keats

             Mine host's sign-board FLEW AWAY
-------------------------------------------------

Thracian tyrant "David L. Webb" wrote

            Faustus with the mostest
-----------------------------------------------------------
    [ http://home.att.net/~mleary/baco1.htm  ]

        An interesting discovery of Baconian
    Thomas Penn Leary is the BACON acrostic in
  'Ch. Marl. THE TRAGICALL History of D.Faustus'
    Printed by V. S. for Thomas Bushell. (1604):

 ___    N ow will I make an ende immediately.
    Me. O what will not I do to obtaine his soule?
   Fau. C onsummatum est , this Bill is ended,
___     A nd Faustus hath bequeath'd his soule to LUCIFER.
___     B ut what is this inscription on mine arme?

   Homo FUGE

FAUSTUS.    I, John Faustus, OF WITTENBERG,
       Doctor, by these present, do give both body and soul
              To LUCIFER Prince of the East,
              and his minister Mephistophilis;
-------------------------------------------------------------
  The KEY word "FUGE" marking the start/end of the BACON
        acrostic was given much significance in Bacon's own
             (1623!!) Advancement of Learning:

  "Bi-literarie Alphabet. Say the interior Letter be 'FUGE'."

<<A short Latin cover text meaning "Do not go until I come"
   deciphers as a mesasage of the opposite advice: "FLEE">>
--------------------------------------------------------------
<< Like the Gr. pheugein, with inf. (mostly poet.), to avoid doing something, to OMIT, forbear, beware, = OMITtere, caVERE: illud in his rebus longe FUGE credere, etc., Lucr. 1, 1052 : o FUGE te tenerae puerorum credere turbae, Tib. 1, 4, 9 : quid sit futurum cras, FUGE quaerere, Hor. C. 1, 9, 13 ; cf. also: FUGE suspicari, etc., id. ib. 2, 4, 22 >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<<Remember to peruse Shakespeare's plays; and bee much
   VERsED in them, that I may not bee ignorant in that matter.
 Whether Dr. Heylin does well, in reckoning up the dramatick poets
   which have been famous in England, to OMIT Shakespeare.>>

              -- WARD, (r)EVERE(n)D  JOHN, 1648-78, Diary.
------------------------------------------------------------
            "OMETTRAI"   :    French for "WILL OMIT"
              {anagram}
            "MERITATO"   :   Italian for "DE(s)ERVED"
------------------------------------------------------------
        Shakespeares POEMS (1640) To the Reader.
http://www.library.upenn.edu/etext/furness/poems/00a.html

<<I have beene somewhat solicitus to bring this forth to the perfect
    view of all men; and in so doing, glad to be serviceable for the
continuance of glory to the DEsERVED Author in these his Poems. I.B.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            "OMETTRAI"   :    French for "WILL OMIT"
            "MERITATO"   :   Italian for "DE(s)ERVED"
            "AMORETTI"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
  SONNET II "AMORETTI" (1595)   by EDMUND SPENSER

  But if in presence of that fairest proud
  thou chance to come, fall lowly at her feet:
  and with meek humbless and afflicted mood,
  pardon for thee, and grace for me intreat.
  Which if she grant, then live and my love cherish,
   if not, die soon, and I WITH THEE WILL PERISH.
----------------------------------------------------------------
 Was "AMORETTI" (1595) written not to Spenser's wife (Elizabeth Boyle)
      but rather to the DE(s)ERVED author himself "MERITATO"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Marlowe, Dedication to Mary Countess of Pembroke
ILLUSTRISSIMAE HEROINAE OMNIBUS ET
ANIMI ET CORPORIS DOTIBUS ORNATIS
SIMAE, MARIAE PENBROKIAE COMITISSAE

 Laurigera stirpe prognata Delia;
 Sydnaei vatis Apollinei genuina soror;
 Alma literatum parens, ad cuius immaculates amplexus,
 con-FUGIT virtus, barbarici et ignorantiae impetu violata,
 ut olim a Threi-cio Tyranno Philomela;
 Poetarum nostri temporis, ingeniorumque
 omnium foelicissime pullulantium, Musa;
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        {anagram}
                     ELEANOR BULL (widow)
                     NOBLE LAUREL
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Marlowe, Dedication to Mary Countess of Pembroke (widow)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.03.0004

         TO THE MOST ILLUSTRIOUS NOBLE LADY,
         ADORNED WITH ALL GIFTS BOTH OF MIND
         AND BODY, MARY COUNTESS OF PEMBROKE

      Delia born of a LAUREL-crowned race, TRUE sister
      of Sidney the bard of Apollo, fostering parent of letters,
      to whose immaculate embrace virtue,
     outraged by the assault of barbarism and ignorance,
     flieth for reFUGE, as once Philomela from the Thracian tyrant;
     Muse of the Poets of our time,
          and of all most happily burgeoning wits;
-------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


text:
Thracian tyrant "David L. Webb" wrote

          You've got that Wright. Homo FUGE
-------------------------------------------------
     _LINES ON THE MERMAID TAVERN_ by John Keats

             Mine host's sign-board FLEW AWAY
-------------------------------------------------

Thracian tyrant "David L. Webb" wrote

            Faustus with the mostest
-----------------------------------------------------------
    [ http://home.att.net/~mleary/baco1.htm  ]

        An interesting discovery of Baconian
    Thomas Penn Leary is the BACON acrostic in
  'Ch. Marl. THE TRAGICALL History of D.Faustus'
    Printed by V. S. for Thomas Bushell. (1604):

 ___    N ow will I make an ende immediately.
    Me. O what will not I do to obtaine his soule?
   Fau. C onsummatum est , this Bill is ended,
___     A nd Faustus hath bequeath'd his soule to LUCIFER.
___     B ut what is this inscription on mine arme?

   Homo FUGE

FAUSTUS.    I, John Faustus, OF WITTENBERG,
       Doctor, by these present, do give both body and soul
              To LUCIFER Prince of the East,
              and his minister Mephistophilis;
-------------------------------------------------------------
  The KEY word "FUGE" marking the start/end of the BACON
        acrostic was given much significance in Bacon's own
             (1623!!) Advancement of Learning:

  "Bi-literarie Alphabet. Say the interior Letter be 'FUGE'."

<<A short Latin cover text meaning "Do not go until I come"
   deciphers as a mesasage of the opposite advice: "FLEE">>
--------------------------------------------------------------
<< Like the Gr. pheugein, with inf. (mostly poet.), to avoid doing something, to OMIT, forbear, beware, = OMITtere, caVERE: illud in his rebus longe FUGE credere, etc., Lucr. 1, 1052 : o FUGE te tenerae puerorum credere turbae, Tib. 1, 4, 9 : quid sit futurum cras, FUGE quaerere, Hor. C. 1, 9, 13 ; cf. also: FUGE suspicari, etc., id. ib. 2, 4, 22 >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<<Remember to peruse Shakespeare's plays; and bee much
   VERsED in them, that I may not bee ignorant in that matter.
 Whether Dr. Heylin does well, in reckoning up the dramatick poets
   which have been famous in England, to OMIT Shakespeare.>>

              -- WARD, (r)EVERE(n)D  JOHN, 1648-78, Diary.
------------------------------------------------------------
            "OMETTRAI"   :    French for "WILL OMIT"
              {anagram}
            "MERITATO"   :   Italian for "DE(s)ERVED"
------------------------------------------------------------
        Shakespeares POEMS (1640) To the Reader.
http://www.library.upenn.edu/etext/furness/poems/00a.html

<<I have beene somewhat solicitus to bring this forth to the perfect
    view of all men; and in so doing, glad to be serviceable for the
continuance of glory to the DE(s)ERVED Author in these his Poems. I.B.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            "OMETTRAI"   :    French for "WILL OMIT"
            "MERITATO"   :   Italian for "DE(s)ERVED"
            "AMORETTI"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
  SONNET II "AMORETTI" (1595)   by EDMUND SPENSER

  But if in presence of that fairest proud
  thou chance to come, fall lowly at her feet:
  and with meek humbless and afflicted mood,
  pardon for thee, and grace for me intreat.
  Which if she grant, then live and my love cherish,
   if not, die soon, and I WITH THEE WILL PERISH.
----------------------------------------------------------------
 Was "AMORETTI" (1595) written not to Spenser's wife (Elizabeth Boyle)
      but rather to the DE(s)ERVED author himself "MERITATO"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Marlowe, Dedication to Mary Countess of Pembroke
ILLUSTRISSIMAE HEROINAE OMNIBUS ET
ANIMI ET CORPORIS DOTIBUS ORNATIS
SIMAE, MARIAE PENBROKIAE COMITISSAE

 Laurigera stirpe prognata Delia;
 Sydnaei vatis Apollinei genuina soror;
 Alma literatum parens, ad cuius immaculates amplexus,
 con-FUGIT virtus, barbarici et ignorantiae impetu violata,
 ut olim a Threi-cio Tyranno Philomela;
 Poetarum nostri temporis, ingeniorumque
 omnium foelicissime pullulantium, Musa;
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                        {anagram}
                     ELEANOR BULL (widow)
                     NOBLE LAUREL
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Marlowe, Dedication to Mary Countess of Pembroke (widow)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.03.0004

         TO THE MOST ILLUSTRIOUS NOBLE LADY,
         ADORNED WITH ALL GIFTS BOTH OF MIND
         AND BODY, MARY COUNTESS OF PEMBROKE

      Delia born of a LAUREL-crowned race, TRUE sister
      of Sidney the bard of Apollo, fostering parent of letters,
      to whose immaculate embrace virtue,
     outraged by the assault of barbarism and ignorance,
     flieth for reFUGE, as once Philomela from the Thracian tyrant;
     Muse of the Poets of our time,
          and of all most happily burgeoning wits;
-------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


text:
"Chess One" <[email]> wrote in message news:<nvwjc.29641$[email]>...

I avoid writing words containing the letter r, Phil? What? How on
earth would I get novels published? You try doing it for a para or
two.

I actually say "Art" and London, just like everyone else. I must say
I've hardened my r's as a Canadian (take a careful look at that
clause, Paul), but of course I could always pronounce them.

L.


text:
http://gifts24.com/g/i/item.html?theId=49&rev=%2Fg%2Fb%2Fbrowse.html%3FvId%3D37%26bId%3D8

---------------------------------------------------------
                 OVALTINE
                 EOVALTIN
                 NEOVALTI
---------------------------------------------------------
                 ENVOLAIT (French)
                FLEW AWAY
---------------------------------------------------------
     Mine hostess's Folger button ENVOLAIT!
---------------------------------------------------------
 LINES ON THE MERMAID TAVERN by John Keats

     Souls of Poets dead and gone,
     What Elysium have ye known,
     Happy field or mossy cavern,
     Choicer than the MERMAID Tavern?
     Have ye tippled drink more fine
     Than mine host's Canary wine?
     Or are fruits of Paradise
     Sweeter than those dainty pies
     Of venison? O generous food!
     Drest as though bold Robin Hood
     Would, with his maid Marian,
     Sup and bowse from horn and can.
        I have heard that on a day
     Mine host's sign-board FLEW AWAY
,
     Nobody knew whither, till
     An astrologer's old quill
     To a sheepskin gave the story,
     Said he saw you in your glory,
     Underneath a new old sign
     Sipping beverage divine,
     And pledging with contented smack
     The MERMAID in the Zodiac.

        Souls of Poets dead and gone,
     What Elysium have ye known,
     Happy field or mossy cavern,
     Choicer than the MERMAID Tavern?>>
----------------------------------------------------
     Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round.
      The jar is round. They should call it round tine.
----------------------------------------------------

"Chess One" <[email]> wrote

       But I already have a "ducky" in my family.

"Chess One" <[email]> wrote

          I wasn't offered Ovaltine (just the ring/arete).

"Chess One" <[email]> wrote

              No comment.

"Chess One" <[email]> wrote

         "London"

"Chess One" <[email]> wrote

        She's not Tallulah Bankhead!

"Chess One" <[email]> wrote

   My mother is from Boston and had to nickname me
  "Scoop" so as to be able to pronounce my name.

   If Lynne had trouble with her 'r's (which I don't recall she did)
   it was less trouble for her than for me.

Art


subject: plan R

text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

-----------------------------------------------------------
  The Baltimore statue shows E.A. POE seated on
 a classic chair whose outer sides have relief panels

               Front -
            Edgar Allan POE
            19 January 1809
             7 October 1849

           [D]reaming Dreams
           [N]o Mortal
           [E]ver Dared
           [T]o Dream Before

               Right Side -
            To Thee
            The Laurels Belong
            Best Bard

               Left Side -
            Whose Sweet Duty
            Was But to Sing

-----------------------------------------------------------
             TEND
----------------------------------------------------------------
             Macbeth  Act 1, Scene 5

LADY MACBETH    Give him TENDing;
        He brings great news.

                [Exit Messenger]

                The RAVEN himself is hoarse
        That croaks the fatal entrance of Duncan
        Under my battlements. Come, you spirits
        That TEND on mortal thoughts, unsex me here,
        And fill me from the crown to the toe top-full
        Of direst cruelty!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On one side of POE, a winged muse hangs a laurel festoon.

http://www.heritagepreservation.org/PROGRAMS/SOS/4KIDS/4kids2000/BaltPoe.htm

The other side depicts a winged muse of music with THISTLES.
----------------------------------------------------------------
__The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the THISTLE
______________was revived by King James II SUNDAY May 29, 1687
_______________________________________________           +234
____________________________________________   ---------------
 "DREAMNG DREAMS NO MORTAL"        Sunday May 29, 1921
 "MONSTER LORD (ANAGRAMMED)"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately RAVEN, of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute STOPPED or stayed he;
But with mien of LORD or lady, perched above my chamber door.
PERCHED upon a bust of PALLAS, just above my chamber door,
PERCHED, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven thou," I said, "art sure no CRAVEN,
Ghastly, grim, and ancient RAVEN, wandering from the nightly shore.
Tell me what the LORDLY NAME is on the Night's Plutonian shore."
Quoth the RAVEN, "NEVERmore."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
          http://www.farvardyn.com/mithras1.htm

 <<In the vaulted border of the cave behind Mithras there is often a
RAVEN, sometimes PERCHED on the god. He brings a message to which
the god listens. In classical literature the RAVEN is the messanger of APOLLO,
and in the Mithraic ritual he is evidently associated with the APOLLO
like Sun-god seen in the top left-hand corner of the relief. During the
course of the actual mysteries the duties of those with the grade of
RAVEN vividly recall the bull-slaying scene; they wear RAVEN's masks
(Fig. 5) and perform as heralds the same role as the RAVEN performs for
Mithras. The bird conveys Sol's orders to Mithras to kill the bull, and
the god carries out the order, although with an expression of anguish on
his face. It grieves him to slay the magnificent beast, but like a true
soldier he obeys in the knowledge that in the end life will be renewed.

   Nevertheless the scene is strange because there is no doubt from
the evidence that the Sun-god was considered to be inferior to Mithras.
Moreover, Mithras himself was also regarded as Sol invictus. One theory
has it that Sol was the mediator who, through the RAVEN, conveyed
knowledge from Ahura-Mazda or Zeus-Jupiter. A second view is that Sol
was originally the superior of Mithras and both were later incorporated
into one mighty sun-figure, as When Mithras and Sol ascended
 to heaven in their chariot.>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
   APOLLON was the great Oympian god of Oracles, Music and POEtry,
Plagues and Healing, Archery and Hunting, Cattle and Herdsmen; and the
Protecting God of Streets, Entranceways, Embarkations, & STRANGERS.

 "Beyond the Olympion [temple of Zeus in the market-place of Patrai,
         Akhaia] is ... a sanctuary of APOLLOn.
 The god is of bronze, and naked. On his feet are sandals,
         and one foot stands upon the skull of an ox.

 That APOLLOn takes great pleasure in oxen is shown by Alkaios
in his hymn to Hermes, who writes how Hermes stole cows of APOLLOn,
and even before Alkaios was born Homeros made APOLLOn TEND cows
of Laomedon for a wage. In the Iliad he puts these verses in the mouth
of Poseidon:- 'Verily I built a wall for the Trojans about their city,
a wide wall and very beautiful, that the city might be impregnable;
and thou, Phoibos, didst TEND the shambling cows with crumpled horns.'
This, it may be conjectured, is the reason for the ox skull."
                                           -Pausanias 7.20.3-4
-------------------------------------------------------------------
_Dr. Strangelove, Or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb_
http://marathon.bungie.org/story/EOPvariations.html

Turgidson: As you may recall, sir, one of the provisions of plan R
provides that once the go code is received the normal SSB radios
   in the aircraft are switched into a special coded device.
   This CRM114 is designed not to receive at all, unless the
 message is preceded by the correct three letter code group prefix.

Muffley: Then do you mean to tell me, General Turgidson,
             that you will be unable to recall the aircraft?

Turgidson: That's about the size of it. However, we are plowing
 through EVERy possible three letter combination of the code.
 But since there are seventeen thousand permutations
 it's going to take us about two and a half days to transmit them all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Mandrake: Now look, Colonel... Bat Guano, if that really is your name,
may I tell you that I have a VERy, VERy good idea, I think, I hope,
I pray, what the recall code is. It's some sort of recurrent theme
 [JACK D. RIPPER] kept repeating. It's a variation on

    "[P]eace [O]n [E]arth" or "[P]urity [O]f [E]ssence".
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Lynne) wrote:

[...]

   Why not?  The oulipo-affiliated writer George Perec wrote the
full-length novel _La disparition _ -- in French, where it's even *more*
difficult -- without using even a single occurrence of the letter "e";
you should try doing the same thing with the letter "r" as an
interesting literary challenge, Lynne.

   Canadians need not worry; only Venetian choir boys in the entourage
of a dissolute English peer need take such an extraordinary step.


text:
"Art Neuendorffer" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Yes, 'tis true. I got it for doing a bit from *Shrew* on stage. And it
read, "I am not that I play" which goes rather well with "I am that I
am."

Art, thank you for reprinting this. A very interesting poem. Did you
find Keats' letter to his brother about it, which I believe contains
an earlier version and a bit of an explanation?

I didn't, and I don't recall my "quaint" accent being any trouble to
anyone.

Regards,
LynnE


text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

   Excellent, Art -- but "stare-crossed glover" would be still better.

[...]

   Let me guess -- one named Daffy?

[...]

   I suspect that you misunderstood her, Art -- she was probably saying
"stupe."  But don't feel too bad -- those Boston accents can be quite a
challenge.

   If Lynne had any trouble with her "comic 'r's," the trouble was
probably with the one accompanying her rather than with the ones she
uttered.


text:
Phil wrote:

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

                   You mean Gorg Prc?

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

-------------------------------------------------------------------
                  one of the provisions of plan R
-------------------------------------------------------------------
                  _Dr. Strangelove, Or:
 How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb_
   http://marathon.bungie.org/story/EOPvariations.html

Turgidson: As you may recall, sir, one of the provisions of plan R
provides that once the go code is received the normal SSB radios
   in the aircraft are switched into a special coded device.
   This CRM114 is designed not to receive at all, unless the
 message is preceded by the correct three letter code group prefix.

Muffley: Then do you mean to tell me, General Turgidson,
             that you will be unable to recall the aircraft?

Turgidson: That's about the size of it. However, we are plowing
 through EVERy possible three letter combination of the code.
 But since there are seventeen thousand permutations
 it's going to take us about two and a half days to transmit them all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Mandrake: Now look, Colonel... Bat Guano, if that really is your name,
may I tell you that I have a VERy, VERy good idea, I think, I hope,
I pray, what the recall code is. It's some sort of recurrent theme
 [JACK D. RIPPER] kept repeating. It's a variation on

    "[P]eace [O]n [E]arth" or "[P]urity [O]f [E]ssence".
-----------------------------------------------------------
  The Baltimore statue shows E.A. POE seated on
 a classic chair whose outer sides have relief panels

               Front -
            Edgar Allan POE
            19 January 1809
             7 October 1849

           [D]reaming Dreams
           [N]o Mortal
           [E]ver Dared
           [T]o Dream Before

               Right Side -
            To Thee
            The Laurels Belong
            Best Bard

               Left Side -
            Whose Sweet Duty
            Was But to Sing

-----------------------------------------------------------
             TEND
----------------------------------------------------------------
             Macbeth  Act 1, Scene 5

LADY MACBETH    Give him TENDing;
        He brings great news.

                [Exit Messenger]

                The RAVEN himself is hoarse
        That croaks the fatal entrance of Duncan
        Under my battlements. Come, you spirits
        That TEND on mortal thoughts, unsex me here,
        And fill me from the crown to the toe top-full
        Of direst cruelty!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On one side of POE, a winged muse hangs a laurel festoon.

http://www.heritagepreservation.org/PROGRAMS/SOS/4KIDS/4kids2000/BaltPoe.htm

The other side depicts a winged muse of music with THISTLES.
----------------------------------------------------------------
__The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the THISTLE
______________was revived by King James II SUNDAY May 29, 1687
_______________________________________________           +234
____________________________________________   ---------------
 "DREAMNG DREAMS NO MORTAL"        Sunday May 29, 1921
 "MONSTER LORD (ANAGRAMMED)"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately RAVEN, of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute STOPPED or stayed he;
But with mien of LORD or lady, perched above my chamber door.
PERCHED upon a bust of PALLAS, just above my chamber door,
PERCHED, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven thou," I said, "art sure no CRAVEN,
Ghastly, grim, and ancient RAVEN, wandering from the nightly shore.
Tell me what the LORDLY NAME is on the Night's Plutonian shore."
Quoth the RAVEN, "NEVERmore."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
          http://www.farvardyn.com/mithras1.htm

 <<In the vaulted border of the cave behind Mithras there is often a
RAVEN, sometimes PERCHED on the god. He brings a message to which
the god listens. In classical literature the RAVEN is the messanger of APOLLO,
and in the Mithraic ritual he is evidently associated with the APOLLO
like Sun-god seen in the top left-hand corner of the relief. During the
course of the actual mysteries the duties of those with the grade of
RAVEN vividly recall the bull-slaying scene; they wear RAVEN's masks
(Fig. 5) and perform as heralds the same role as the RAVEN performs for
Mithras. The bird conveys Sol's orders to Mithras to kill the bull, and
the god carries out the order, although with an expression of anguish on
his face. It grieves him to slay the magnificent beast, but like a true
soldier he obeys in the knowledge that in the end life will be renewed.

   Nevertheless the scene is strange because there is no doubt from
the evidence that the Sun-god was considered to be inferior to Mithras.
Moreover, Mithras himself was also regarded as Sol invictus. One theory
has it that Sol was the mediator who, through the RAVEN, conveyed
knowledge from Ahura-Mazda or Zeus-Jupiter. A second view is that Sol
was originally the superior of Mithras and both were later incorporated
into one mighty sun-figure, as When Mithras and Sol ascended
 to heaven in their chariot.>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
   APOLLON was the great Oympian god of Oracles, Music and POEtry,
Plagues and Healing, Archery and Hunting, Cattle and Herdsmen; and the
Protecting God of Streets, Entranceways, Embarkations, & STRANGERS.

 "Beyond the Olympion [temple of Zeus in the market-place of Patrai,
         Akhaia] is ... a sanctuary of APOLLOn.
 The god is of bronze, and naked. On his feet are sandals,
         and one foot stands upon the skull of an ox.

 That APOLLOn takes great pleasure in oxen is shown by Alkaios
in his hymn to Hermes, who writes how Hermes stole cows of APOLLOn,
and even before Alkaios was born Homeros made APOLLOn TEND cows
of Laomedon for a wage. In the Iliad he puts these verses in the mouth
of Poseidon:- 'Verily I built a wall for the Trojans about their city,
a wide wall and very beautiful, that the city might be impregnable;
and thou, Phoibos, didst TEND the shambling cows with crumpled horns.'
This, it may be conjectured, is the reason for the ox skull."
                                           -Pausanias 7.20.3-4
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
even
She

At one period the obscure west country sect/Devon, the Sethians, would not
use the letter 'S' except for the singular word 'Seth'.

And certain catholic choir-boys.

I suppose I made the whimsical comment to Lynne because I was looking at two
earlier English alphabets in association with the first public hornbooks,
both of 23 letters, and both with two "a's", presumably pronounced
differently. My comment to Lynne was not intended to be as solemn as its
reception now suggests :(

As a general comment; people from East Anglia and the home counties suppress
the 'r' in speech and also express from much higher in the palate, and these
folks moved to New England in the Puritan migrations accounting for much of
New England's somewhat metallic accent, and 'paak the cah in the yahd...
Whereas the Carolinas were settled from a wider variety of counties
including many people from Wessex who seem to add gratuitous r's to their
speech! And also sound more from the throat.

 There is a peculiar island in the Chesapeake [not quite over-run by
modernism still], but in the 1950s contained enough Cornish people that the
pronounciation of that language and/or dialect some 200 years ago could have
been heard. These are interesting anthropological studies. Another parallel
is in Scottish traditional music, far better preserved in Nova Scotia than
in Scotland itself [according to Dougie Maclean].

Cordially, Phil


text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote

"Lynne" <[email]> wrote

           No. If you have it please post it.

"Lynne" <[email]> wrote

  You're accent wasn't any problem to me. In fact, I've always found a
female english accent rather charming. (I had a crush on Hayley Mills at one
time)

           What I have trouble with is:

             Pronouncing 'r's myself

 given that my mom and half my relatives are Bostonian.

At Neuendoffe


text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

 I thought it was charming. It also accented Lynne's dry sense of humour.
"Fancy paying all that money to look at cranes."


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

I already beat you to that, David, on another thread. Or maybe it's
just a question of great minds thinking alike. ;)

L.


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

         Not as good a Lynne's "stare-cross'd glover":
------------------------------------------------------------------
 From: Lynne ([email])
Subject: Re: A theory about Christopher Marlowe.
Newsgroups: humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
Date: 2004-04-27 07:51:40 PST

Do you think "stare-cross'd glover" would have been as good,
 now I'm thinking about it?

"Art Neuendorffer" <[email]> wrote

----------------------------------------------------------------

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

FW 232.16: Go daft noon, madden, mind the step. Please stoop O to please.

      No, Andrea. Ducky was her G.S. camp councilor name.

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

            She actually meant to say "Skip"
      (which most people do to my HLAS "scoops").
--------------------------------------------------------------
 Sir To.      Th' Art a scholar; let us therefore eat and drink.
                     MARIAN, I say! a STOUP of wine!

 ( And get thee to Yaughan & fetch me a STOUP of liquor.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
FW 18.16:     (Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook,
  what curios of signs (please stoop), in this allaphbed! Can you rede
 --------------------------------------------------------------

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

                                Argh!

 (You'll bring me one noggin of rum, now, won't you, matey?)

Athu (Scoop) Cal Neuendoffe


text:
"Art Neuendorffer" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Try this: http://www.rc.umd.edu/editions/keats/letter/lewis.htm

:)L.


text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

[...]

   You can pronounce yourself an arse to your heart's content, Art, and
nobody will gainsay you.


text:
"Neil Brennen" <[email]> wrote in message news:<zmXjc.14016$[email]>...

Ah, Neil, but it is nothing without the context. People, especially
David and Terry, might think I was talking about birds.

L.


text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

[...]

   Here's a device for your h.l.a.s. scoops, Art:

<http://www.scoopandsackit.com/>

   You've had enough already, Art.


text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote

"I wrote the following which has pleased Reynolds and Dilke beyond any thing
I EVER did."

   If only you could please Reynolds as Keats does, Lynne.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1818 Hazlitt:  "as true to NATURE as itself."
        "what [Shakespeare] says of them is VERy true:
          what he says of their betters is also VERy true."

 Lord Byron's daughter, Allegra, and two of Shelley's children
 were all baptised together at a ceremony in St. Giles in 1818.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Mary Shelley's novel _FRANKenstein_ first printed on Jan. 1, 1818

         Rare VENUS - JUPITER Occultation on January 3, 1818
         http://www.go.ednet.ns.ca/~larry/planets/1818occ.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------
  January 22, 1818, Dr. Caspar Wistar of Philadelphia dies

January 24, 1818, Anglican clergyman John Mason Neale, who was one
 of the first to translate ancient Greek and Latin hymns into English, born.
------------------------------------------------------------------
 http://www.rc.umd.edu/editions/keats/letter/lewis.htm

<<Messrs Keats       Post Office, Teignmouth,  Devon
     7 o'Clock JA 30 1818 NT     Hampstead

My dear Brothers,

I wrote the following which has pleased Reynolds and Dilke beyond any thing
I EVER did. I was thinking of Ben Jonson, Beaumont and Fletcher and the rest
who used to meet at the Mermaid in days of yore and to finish did this.
                       . . . .
      Souls of Poets dead and gone
      Are the Winds a sweeter home,
      Richer is uncellar'd Cavern
      Than the merr[y] mermaid Tavern?

    [written vertically in the right margin:]

      May the 5ï¿½ do and this please you--trust to
 the Spring  and farewell my dear Tom and Geo[rg]e

 Your affectionate Brother,   John ---- >>
--------------------------------------------------
                     Final version

      Souls of Poets dead and gone,
      What Elysium have ye known,
      Happy field or mossy cavern,
      Choicer than the MERMAID Tavern?>>
--------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


subject: SARTOR RESARTUS

text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote

"I wrote the following which has pleased Reynolds
      and Dilke beyond any thing I EVER did."

   If only you could please Reynolds as Keats does, Lynne.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1818 Hazlitt:  "as true to NATURE as itself."
        "what [Shakespeare] says of them is VERy TRUE:
          what he says of their betters is also VERy TRUE."

 Lord Byron's daughter, Allegra, and two of Shelley's children
 were all baptised together at a ceremony in St. Giles in 1818.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary Shelley's novel _FRANKenstein_ first printed on Jan. 1, 1818

         Rare VENUS - JUPITER Occultation on January 3, 1818
         http://www.go.ednet.ns.ca/~larry/planets/1818occ.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------
  January 22, 1818, Dr. Caspar Wistar of Philadelphia dies

January 24, 1818, Anglican clergyman John Mason Neale, who was one
 of the first to translate ancient Greek and Latin hymns into English, born.
------------------------------------------------------------------
 http://www.rc.umd.edu/editions/keats/letter/lewis.htm

<<Messrs Keats       Post Office, Teignmouth,  Devon
     7 o'Clock JA 30 1818 NT     Hampstead

My dear Brothers,

I wrote the following which has pleased Reynolds and Dilke beyond any thing
I EVER did. I was thinking of Ben Jonson, Beaumont and Fletcher and the
rest who used to meet at the Mermaid in days of yore and to finish did this.
                       . . . .
      [S]ouls of Poets dead and gone
      [A]re the Winds a sweeter home,
      [R]icher is uncellar'd Cavern
      [T]han the merr[y] mermaid Tavern?

    [written vertically in the right margin:]

      May the 5£ do and this please you--trust to
 the Spring  and farewell my dear Tom and Geo[rg]e

      Your affectionate Brother,   John ---- >>
--------------------------------------------------
      Souls of Poets dead and gone,
      What Elysium have ye known,
      Happy field or mossy cavern,
      Choicer than the MERMAID Tavern?>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
       SARTOR RESARTUS (1835) - Thomas Carlyle

          The first has now no date, or writer's name,
           but a huge BLOT; and runs to this effect:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://search.ebi.eb.com/ebi/article/0,6101,32701,00.html

 'SARTOR RESARTUS ', which is considered Carlyle's masterpiece, is one
of the oddest books ever written, supposedly part book review and part
biography. The writer said that he patched it together from another
 book, 'The History of Clothes, Their Origin and Influence', and
from the life of its supposed author, Herr Diogenes Teufelsdröckh.
  The Latin title means "the Tailor patched."

 Both the German professor and his book existed only in Carlyle's
imagination. But in the professor's name he poured out his own soul.
Teufelsdröckh's spiritual struggles, loves, and hates were Carlyle's
own. The book is written in a rhapsodic, broken style
 that has since been called "Carlylese."

 Thomas Carlyle, the eldest son of a Scottish peasant family, was born
in the lowland village of Ecclefechan on Dec. 4, 1795.

 When he was still in his 20s he began to suffer from a stomach ailment,
and for the rest of his life he was almost constantly in pain. In 1821
 he met Jane Welsh, whom he married after a five-year courtship.

 In 1834 the Carlyles moved to London, where they spent their remaining
years. The following year 'SARTOR RESARTUS ' was published in Boston,
Mass. Ralph Waldo Emerson, one of Carlyle's earliest disciples, had the
book published in America because no British book publisher would accept it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                The Tempest  Act 4, Scene 1

CALIBAN   Be patient, for the prize I'll bring thee to
        Shall HOODWINK this mischance: therefore speak softly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://users.erols.com/volker/Shakes/DatgTmpt.htm.

<<[Kathman states:] Strachey also mentions "HOODWINKed men",
         and Shakespeare's use of the word "HOODWINK" at 4.1.206
      ("HOODWINK this mischance") is one of three in the canon.

  [Volker's reply:] Not true.
                        "HOODWINK" occurs six times in thecanon.>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
         SARTOR RESARTUS  - Thomas Carlyle

<<"If aught in the history of the world's blindness could surprise us,
here might we indeed pause and wonder. An idea has gone abroad,
and fixed itself down into a wide-spreading rooted error, that Tailors
are a distinct species in Physiology, not Men, but fractional Parts of
 a Man. Call any one a _Schneider_ (Cutter, Tailor), is it not, in
our dislocated, HOODWINKed, and indeed delirious condition of
 Society, equivalent to defying his perpetual fellest enmity? The epithet
_schneidermassig_ (Tailor-like) betokens an otherwise unapproachable
degree of pusillanimity; we introduce a _Tailor's-Melancholy_, more
opprobrious than any Leprosy, into our Books of Medicine; and fable I
know not what of his generating it by living on CABBAGE. Why should I
speak of Hans Sachs (himself a Shoemaker, or kind of Leather-Tailor),
with his _Schneider mit dem Panier_?

 Why of Shakspeare, in his _Taming of the Shrew_, and elsewhere?

 Does it not stand on record that the English Queen Elizabeth,
 receiving a deputation of Eighteen Tailors, addressed them
 with a 'Good morning, gentlemen both!' Did not the same virago
 boast that she had a Cavalry Regiment, whereof neither horse nor
man could be injured; her Regiment, namely, of Tailors on Mares?

 Thus everywhere is the falsehood taken for granted,
      and acted on as an indisputable fact.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FEEBLE      I WILL do my good WILL, sir; you can have no more.

FALSTAFF      Well said, good woman's Tailor! well said,
           courageous FEEBLE! thou wilt be as valiant as the
           wrathful dove or most magnanimous mouse. Prick the
  woman's Tailor: well, Master Shallow; DEEP, Master Shallow.
----------------------------------------------------------------
            t{O}.th[E].on[L]ie.[B]eg[E]tt[E]r.o[F].

               [F]er[E]tt[E]ge[B]ei[L]on[E]ht{O}t

               [F]ee[B]le{O}
                r    a
                a    c
                n    o
                c    n
                i
                s
------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


author: Greg Reynolds

text:
Lynne wrote:

HLAS is not a chatroom.
Please consider the serious readers and contributors of this newsgroup
before littering it with your unrelated and wholly insignificant chatting.

No one dedicated to Shakespeare needs to be confronted with your
personal messaging here. There are several alternative means available
to you, so keep it out of our forum.

The Shakespeare Trust invaded nothing and is in no way affiliated with
anything in this thread. It is not even humorous to use its name. The idiot
who misnamed this thread ought not invoke that institution's name and
pretend to be some part of it and then speak for it. Please do not falsify
your credentials here.

Do you two not have e-mail to conduct this meaningless conversation?
Please keep your indulgent logrolling to yourselves. It is not in our
interest.
You are cluttering a devoted forum with your personal chatter--so
 please cease.
(If you are in over your heads at HLAS, just seek your own level, i.e.,
a chatroom.)

Altruistically,
Greg Reynolds


text:
Greg Reynolds <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Could have fooled me. What with Dr. Webb talking about ducks,
Roundtable talking about film stars and Lucerne, Art talking about
hermetic societies, and many others talking about much else, I was
sure it was a place where Shakespeareans came together to chat about
whatever they wished to discuss. It would be a pretty boring place if
we only made impersonal statements about the bard. Not that such
statements aren't welcome.

Insignificant? But my dear man, people will be searching the archives
one day to see what we said so that they can ferret out the
personalities of those who wrote such interesting canons while
attempting to match them to their works.

It's our forum too. Or at least, I was pretty sure it was. Perhaps I'm
in the wrong place. I'll check. But I'd better do it before six when
the bus leaves for another newsgroup.

I plead innocent to that one. I don't belong to the Trust. I am
anti-Trust.

Email? What's that? Oh, I remember. That's what you might have used to
tell me my book hadn't arrived. You chose to use hlas. Now was that
about Shakespeare, Greg dear?

Who is the "our" with an interest?

I did. I went to Boston. Would you like to hear about that too? That
was definitely about the bard.

Um, no, so far the water only reaches to my midriff.

So nice to hear from you, Greg. Always a pleasure. By the way, should
you be cluttering a devoted forum with your long and altruistic
message?

Love,
LynnE


text:
"Greg Reynolds" <[email]> wrote

idiot

                ROFLOL

Art


text:
"Lynne" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<[email]>...

chatting.

Besides, when did Greg "Lear killed no one" Reynolds ever become a serious
Shakespearean?

Alt.fan.Reynolds?

idiot
falsify

It's curious that Reynolds only objects to references to the Trust when I
use them. Grumman, Webb, Reedy, et al all get free passage.

Where is his review of the book, Lynne?

He and King Lear, who "killed no one".

Yes, please share it!

That reminds me, we never took a water taxi, Lynne.


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Lynne) wrote:

   To be fair, I did not bring up the subject of ducks, although as an
enthusiast I am quite happy to discuss it if someone else brings it up.

   But Roundtable was talking about the actor who played Simon TEMPLAR!

   What is h.l.a.s. if not a forum for loose errin' (see the Oxfordians'
contributions)?

   Is *that* what he's been talking about?  I'm sure that many have
wondered.

   And anti-Shakespeareans?

   But falsifying credentials is a time-honored h.l.a.s. pastime (see
the contributions of "Dr." Faker).

   You were not found Trustworthy, Lynne?

   If it involved visiting Boston-area authorship eccentrics, I would
definitely like to hear about it.  (I wonder whether Stephanie Caruana
is still selling the "Gemstone" conspiracy theory or whether she has
moved on to another one?  The web site appears to be moribund.)

   When it reaches midruff, you should begin worrying.


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Oh dear. Bringing up ducks. One hopes it is too early in the morning
for anyone to have eaten any.

Oh, right. Still not Shakespeare. She could converse with Art, though.

Loose 'errings? Loose WHITE 'errings? We'd need Alan on hlas for them.

He talks of much else interesting too.

Nope. We are all lovers of Shakespeare. Perhaps you meant
anti-Stratfordians, although I am becoming rather confused. If
traditionalists object to being called Strats, how come they call us
(among other things) anti-Strats? One has to have someone to be Anti
to. Although I am Aunty to four nephews (this only works in
Americanese, folks).

Oh, David, that's not so. I'm just VERy trustworthy as opposed to
Trusting.

Stephanie Caruana wasn't there. I have never met her, in fact.

Yes, it will be a little like poor Joe Ben in _Sometimes A Great
Notion_. But now, now, we shouldn't engage in idle chit chat that has
nothing to do with Shakespeare. What will Greg think?

Lynne


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Lynne) wrote:

[...]
[...]

   The way Art "conVERses" with George Mason ought to disabuse you of
that notion, Lynne.

[...]

   Yes indeed -- his belief that Anne Hathaway was Shakespeare's mother
was nothing if not interesting, as was his theory that the addressee of
Sonnet 20 was the Earl of Oxford's own penis.  His brilliant discovery
that the number 19 is both the sum of two consecutive integers and the
difference of their squares was quite fascinating, if only to persons
interested in the abnormal psychology of certain complete mathematical
illiterates.  Particularly interesting were Art's suggestions that
Shakespeare was being ridiculed in the First Folio commendatory material
by the use of the word "moniment" in the Scottish dialectal sense of
laughingstock, a sense that the word would not even attain until the
nineteenth century, and his assertion that Aleksandr Nevskii was "tsar,"
a distinction that would not exist for another several centuries --
indeed, these and other cretinous chronological gaffes strongly suggest
that Art believes in time travel, a belief that furnishes fascinating
insights into Art's abnormal psychology.  On the other hand, Art's Peter
Gay idiocy was too tasteless to be interesting.  But which of Art's
interesting topics did you have in mind, Lynne?

   In view of the fatuous attempts by many Stratfordians to belittle him
as an illiterate boob, that assertion is somewhat debatable.

[...]

   A pity -- neither have I.  I wonder whether she still thinks that
Dennis Kucinich is going to be the next President -- not that that
fantasy isn't an outcome devoutly to be wished.

[...]


author: Stephanie Caruana

text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...
(I wonder whether Stephanie Caruana

I have moved on, in a way.  The Bush "conspiracy of dummies/madmen"
was getting to me to the extent that words failed me, so I turned to
"art" (not "art n").  I turned off the Internet.  I painted a crude
but adequate copy of Picasso's Guernica in acrylic, labeled it
"Baghdad" in big red letters, and then collaged it with colored
newspaper pix, etc.  The result is...well, modestly enough....divine,
darlings.  I am making it available in Giclee prints, up to 36"x72",
on paper or canvas, as well as a cheap print on glossy paper on an
11"x17" sheet.  The Giclees will be included in an anti-war art show
around the end of June, sponsored by the Zeitgeist Gallery in
Cambridge.  This means I'll have to get back on the Web site with some
sort of website, e-mail etc., probably within the next week or two.
If interested, please don't reply to this e-mail, but you can post a
message on this group and I will see it eventually.

No...but I have been helping out to the extent I can with his new
office, which opened here in Boston on Monday, May 10, in connection
with the Demo Convention to be held here.  Dennis's anti-war message
becomes more relevant every day, and kerry is still ignoring the need
to get out of Iraq.

Got to run now, but ....I'll be back!!! :-)

Stephanie Caruana


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

                 Shame on those Stratfordians!

Art N.


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Stephanie Caruana) wrote:

   Welcome back, Stephanie.

   I'm relieved to hear it!

   "Dummies"?  That is an uncharacteristically bland locution for you,
Stephanie.  Some of them qualify as fully-fledged idiots whose arrogance
is exceeded only by their ignorance.  Many of them enlist the most
fatuous wishful thinking in the construction of their idiosyncratic
alternative reality.  In short, some of them would make good Oxfordians.

   Art talks to bronze sculptural simulacra, so I doubt that your
inability to find words would have deterred him much.

   Good.  Does your political activism extend to helping out your
esteemed coreligionist Mr. Streitz with his campaign for U.S. Senate?
Now that Oxfordians have made inroads into the Supreme Court, isn't it
time to take control of the legislative and executive branches?

   It certainly does -- but unfortunately few people seem to care as
much about Iraq as about the economy, and Bush's deteriorating approval
ratings have not thus far translated into gains for Kerry in the polls.


text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

     I always look for my lost words under lame posts.

Art N.


text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Art Neuendorffer" <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

   Good idea, Art!  That way you'll always have at least one (and
probably at most one) reader -- yourself.