author: Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

subject: Re: F117/F16/Predator parts  on Ebay

text:
[email] wrote:

I wonder if I can trade some of my parts from Amelia Erhardt's airplane
for this.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


author: JJ

subject: Re: F117/F16/Predator parts  on Ebay

text:
"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" <[email]> wrote:

I first read this as "trade some of my paNts from"...alcohol is fun.

Jay the Pig


author: George Ruch

subject: Re: F117/F16/Predator parts  on Ebay

text:
"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" <[email]> wrote:

You found it and didn't tell the world?  For shame...

|     George Ruch
|     "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"


subject: Re: F117/F16/Predator parts  on Ebay

text:
George Ruch wrote:

Yep, the  parts are in crates in me secret underground Antarctic
warehouse about 80 yards down from the yeti and sasquach bodies. Can I
interest you in some alien bodies? I need to free up some space my
German atom bomb program display.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


subject: Re: F117/F16/Predator parts  on Ebay

text:
"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" <[email]> wrote:

Watch it - you'll have Teuton scouring the TerraServer satellite
photo archives for 'evidence'.

No, thanks (hazardous storage, etc.)  I can put you in touch with
some people in Roswell, though.

| Clovis Man (aka George Ruch)
| "New! Do-it-yourself autopsy kits!  Be the first on your block to get one!"
| (Stolen with pride from alt.folklore.urban)


author: John Thomas

subject: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1692000/1692329.stm

Swiss police detain famous conductor

It's emerged that one of the world's most famous conductors was detained
by police in Switzerland on suspicion of being a terrorist threat.

Reports said the French conductor, Pierre Boulez, who's seventy-five was
dragged by police from his hotel bed in the Swiss town of Basle.

They detained him for three hours and temporarily confiscated his
passport.

A BBC correspondent says police were acting on information that Mr
Boulez had once said in the nineteen-sixties that he thought opera
houses should be blown up -- comments which had placed him on a list of
possible terrorist suspects.

The organisers of the music festival the European Month of Music at
which Mr Boulez was conducting have demanded an apology from the
authorities.


author: Samuel Vriezen

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:47:21 GMT, John Thomas <[email]>
wrote:

I mentioned this on the Dutch NG already, but this story reminds me
strongly of one friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend conductor who was
detained by the Israeli custom officers for quite some time and
interrogated, though he wasn't aware of any wrong he had done. Finally
big shot officer comes in to play it hard, puts lamp straight in
conductor's face, and goes - 'Okay, I'll ask this only once... w h o
is Major B FLAT!?!?'

Thought you might want to know.

Really, this little post did, if only slightly, improve your life, did
it not? No denying - I heard you chuckle. Or contemplate chuckling.


author: Walter Ekelin

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
Senator MacCarthy is back in town! Drive him out or he'll get y'all. Cause
"if you're not with US - ya must be against US, 'n if we find you being
against US you can't be a real human being, but some kinda monster terrorist
that it's our democratic duty to kill".

greetings
Walter Ekelin
Kalmar, Suï¿½de
[email]
http://w1.480.telia.com/~u48018896/index.html    Personal homepage
http://w1.480.telia.com/~u48022134/index.html    The Hilding Rosenberg Pages

"John Thomas" <[email]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email]...


author: Louis Irwin

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
That's nothing.  Just wait until the authorities find out that Boulez
'happened to be the first to learn that Schoenberg was dead!  Late breaking
news on the murder charges no doubt to follow.  Headline: "SERIAL killer at
large.  Terrorist Pierre ("the hammer") Boulez, known to be an expert with
fixed explosives released in rituals of multiple blows, was released by
chance earlier by the police, who have provided no response. The police are
combing the country, fold by fold."

Louis Irwin

"John Thomas" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Anthony & Maria Cornicello

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
Not to mention all those references to explosions:
"Eclat/Multiples"  (hmm, multiple bursts?),  or "...explosante/fixe".
Not to mention the secret message piece for all those cellists.

Come to think of it, I studied "Boulez on Music Today".  Do you
know that there are 911 occurances of the *each* of the letters
O, B, and L?  Personally, I think he's the real mastermind.

And what does he do?  He just "resonds" to us, employing odd
notations and usual anthems. "Poems for Power!"  How much
more do we need to convict him?

*********
Is the huge smiley face needed?

"Louis Irwin" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9umq4h$26k$[email]...
breaking
at
are


author: Scott Kurtz

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
Boulez did after all write a work called "The Hammer without a Master" and
we all know who that missing master was, of course: Osama Bin Laden. Not
only that, he organized the NY Philharmonic rug concerts--how neo-pagan or
Talibanesque can you get, sitting coat-and-tieless on rugs in the sacred
environs of Mostly Mozart festivals? A sure sign of latent purist Islamic
fundamentalism. Pli selon pli (Folds within Folds) must surely be an
encrypted message to al-queda cells worldwide: stay hidden within the folds;
then strike, when the master returns for his hammer. And speaking of
terrorist cells, what about the "bees of the horizon" phrase that shimmers
along at the end of Soleil dex Eaux. If those bees aren't communists,
they're certainly followers of Osama bin Laden (for whom Rene Char is
obviously an alias). Don't feed your kids any of their evil serialist honey.
The next thing you know they'll be reading Mallarme or the Koran instead of
the one and only Holy Bible. They'll be asking for cancrizans inverted in
their Nintendo jingles. They'll demand that the twelve tone system be added
as one of the wonders of the world in the next revision of Sid Meier's
computer game Civilization (favored by that evil Boulez cohort/Taliban
warrior Toru Takemitsu).They might even refuse to buy Swiss cheese or Swiss
watches or even to listen to the music of Frank Martin.
Louis Irwin <[email]> wrote in message
news:9umq4h$26k$[email]...
breaking
at
are


author: Owen Hartnett

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
And, unless his demands are met, he threatens to conduct again!

-Owen


author: John Grabowski

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
You forgot the grassy knoll assassins.

John

Scott Kurtz wrote:


author: Ward Hardman

subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
In rec.music.classical.recordings Scott Kurtz <[email]> wrote:
: Boulez did after all write a work called "The Hammer without a Master" and
: we all know who that missing master was, of course: Osama Bin Laden. Not
: only that, he organized the NY Philharmonic rug concerts--how neo-pagan or
: Talibanesque can you get, sitting coat-and-tieless on rugs in the sacred
: environs of Mostly Mozart festivals? A sure sign of latent purist Islamic
: fundamentalism. Pli selon pli (Folds within Folds) must surely be an
: encrypted message to al-queda cells worldwide: stay hidden within the folds;
: then strike, when the master returns for his hammer. And speaking of
: terrorist cells, what about the "bees of the horizon" phrase that shimmers
: along at the end of Soleil dex Eaux. If those bees aren't communists,
: they're certainly followers of Osama bin Laden (for whom Rene Char is
: obviously an alias). Don't feed your kids any of their evil serialist honey.
: The next thing you know they'll be reading Mallarme or the Koran instead of
: the one and only Holy Bible. They'll be asking for cancrizans inverted in
: their Nintendo jingles. They'll demand that the twelve tone system be added
: as one of the wonders of the world in the next revision of Sid Meier's
: computer game Civilization (favored by that evil Boulez cohort/Taliban
: warrior Toru Takemitsu).They might even refuse to buy Swiss cheese or Swiss
: watches or even to listen to the music of Frank Martin.

: Louis Irwin <[email]> wrote in message
: news:9umq4h$26k$[email]...
:> That's nothing.  Just wait until the authorities find out that Boulez
:> 'happened to be the first to learn that Schoenberg was dead!  Late
: breaking
:> news on the murder charges no doubt to follow.  Headline: "SERIAL killer
: at
:> large.  Terrorist Pierre ("the hammer") Boulez, known to be an expert with
:> fixed explosives released in rituals of multiple blows, was released by
:> chance earlier by the police, who have provided no response. The police
: are
:> combing the country, fold by fold."
:>
:> Louis Irwin

Does rmcr have a "Hall of Fame" for satire?  The preceding seem worthy
of nomination.     ;-)

--Ward Hardman

  "The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just simple
   competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
                                                       - H.L. Mencken


subject: Re: Swiss police detain Pierre Boulez

text:
LOL

On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 04:43:16 GMT, "Scott Kurtz"
<[email]> wrote:


author: Kenneth McClelland

subject: Kayak Building

text:
I'm thinking real hard about a winter project and building a Kayak is very high on that list. Has anyone here taken on that project -- and how did it turn out, with who's design?

I'm looking here http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/ specifically at the Cape Ann series. I'm leaning to the HV or the Expedition (I'm big and need a sizable boat). Anyone have any working knowledge of these designs? Any input would be very much appreciated before I invest in plans or start building. If not, does anyone have a suggestion for a building group that I may pose some questions to.


author: Clurrie

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Kenneth McClelland wrote:
I built a strip kayak from plans I bought from Canoe and Kayak magasine
and a canoe (including sailing rig).  I didn't find it difficult and
find they're beautiful.  Also the best toys I ever had. :O)   A few
hints if you decide to go for it.  Use epoxy resin rather than polyester
add opaque glue (blended to match your wood) to the glue you use to fix
the strips together.  This hides gaps.  Give yourself enough time 250 to
300 hours is normal for a first kayak.  If your interested, check out
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/clurrie/Boats/TheBoatPage.htm#HAQJAUK
where I have a picture posted...

In any case, if you build it it becomes like one of your children.
It'll be at least twice as much fun to take out...

Clurrie

"Hot or cold, wet or dry, a day on the water is always better than a day
on the job."


author: Jake Janovetz

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
I recently built a couple kayaks from Pygmy Boats (stitch and glue
models) and the results were great.  I have little woodworking
knowledge and it is mostly unnecessary.  Just follow the instructions.

I am still considering a strip boat design, but haven't taken the
plunge yet.  The time commitment is about four-fold and I would need
more tools to complete the work.

   Jake

"Kenneth McClelland" <[email]> wrote in message news:<a132d.6974$IO5.6651@trndny04>...


author: Matt Langenfeld

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Start with a simple stitch-and-glue model. Then work into something more
complex. You'll be glad you did.


author: John R Weiss

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
You don't indicate your experience level, but I don't know that you want to
tackle a stripper as a first boatbuilding project.  A stitch-n-glue boat may be
a better starter project.

I'm not a woodworker or boatbuilder, so I chose to build a Pygmy Coho kayak
(http://www.pygmyboats.com/) a few years ago.  Among kit boats, Pygmy and
Chesapeake Light Craft probably have the largest following.  The ultimate choice
is strictly a personal decision, because both are excellent companies thta
design excellent boats.  I have documented my project on
http://www.tsca.net/puget/coho1.htm.  I am VERY pleased with the results, in
both looks and performance.  Mine took 135 hours over 6 months of scattered
evenings and weekends.

Both Pygmy and CLC sell plans for some of their designs, if you would rather
build from plans.  If you live near one of thm, and can test-paddle a few of
their finished boats, you may be able to make a better decision.

"Kenneth McClelland" <[email]> wrote...


author: William R. Watt

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Do you have a preference for materials or building method?
- Plywood would probably be least expense and effort.
- Cedar strip would cost more and be more effort but the boat would look
  better (smooth sexy curves) and perform a bit better.
- Fabric over frame would be least weight. They are pretty tough boats.
- There are a couple of ways to make a one-off fibre-reinforced plastic
  resin boat.


author: Ulli

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
I can't see what one would gain by building a S&G first.  Both construction
methods are so different that no essential skills are learned by building a
S&G first and a strip-planked kayak later.  Well, if one doesn't have the
patient to finish a S&G than it would be hopeless to start a strip kayak, but
that has nothing to do with skills.
To get an idea how strip planking works and to discover little tricks a better
approach could be to built a model boat first, such as a 3 foot sailboat hull
or a scale model of the kayak.

ulli


author: Bennet George

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
In article <BU52d.2998$[email]>,
[email] says...

I agree. I am about half way through a stripper which is my first homebuilt
kayak. I started last Christmas, thinking it was going to be a winter project.
I have a well-equipped shop and am not a complete novice woodworker. I am
amazed at how long this is taking and how uncraftsmanlike the results. I'm
thinking now this may be a practice boat which will be burned before letting
anyone see it. I wish I had started with a stitch and glue boat. I'd have been
on the water with it this summer.

Bennet


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Thanks all for your input. I do have some woodworking experience and pretty
good patience for long projects but I'm starting to think - what the heck,
build a S&G first -> more boats = more fun. Fortunately I have the storage
space for more than one and I might even talk my wife into coming kayaking
with me if I have a spare boat around. If not my son will eventually grow
into it.

Thanks All


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
I really like the look of wood.
I have seriously looked at this option but it appears that I can have a more
efficient hull form using the strip method. As for the expense it means more
time but not much more money. I have a friend that is capable of producing
the strips for the price of a steak and a few beers - I of course will still
supply the wood but I am not going to go exotic, I was leaning toward cedar
or clear pine from a local yard. If I read one builder correctly I need
approx. 3 boards 16ft by 3/4 by 10 inches wide. This would not be cheap but
I may have a line on some rough cut stock at a good price. I may put up with
more joints and get some shorter lumber to save cost.
better (smooth sexy curves) and perform a bit better.
Yep
If I just wanted to get on the water, I would go this way. But their looks
leave me flat and I am looking for speed for long paddles and I just don't
think the fabric boats excel on that.
resin boat.
Does not appeal to the craftsman in me. Might come out more expensive than
the strip boat and does not have the looks.

Thank you for your reply. It did me good to sit down and type out my
reasoning. I guess the main points going for the strip is that it will
produce the boat I want - Fast, good looking and a good project to relax
with -- I work with computers and some time spent working out woodworking
problems is Relaxing by comparison. So it looks like I have the method, now
I just need some input on the designs that I'm looking at and some tips on
common pitfalls. Thanks


author: Darryl Johnson

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Bennet George wrote in news:cic6n5$pk5$[email]:

Results can vary. My friend decided he was interested in building a
stripper and completed his in about 250 hours -- which included doing
his own bead and cove router work on the strips. The finshed boat is
a beauty: we tease him about him boat being "guy bait" because
inevitably men come up and start chatting with him about his boat
whenever we're at campsite or put-ins.

He had some woodworking experience, having done a fair bit of
carpentry work around the house, but he was not a "pro". It was his
first boat. He started with only a set of plans and a lot of time
browsing the web looking at kayak building sites.

He's now talking about building a 25' sailboat. But first he needs to
build a garage big enough and we're all betting that his wife will
have something to say about THAT!


author: Arthurkayk

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
I built a Pygmy Osprey HP a few years ago.  The manufacturer claims it can
be done in 48 hrs.  Perhaps it can, if you have a large shop so that you can
work on one thing while waiting for the epoxy to harden on something else.  By
the way; ask about temperature, if this is to be a fall or winter project in an
unheated shop you will probably want to use a low temp hardener with your
resin.  I had only a small, space to work in and that slowed me down a lot.
I made a few minor mistakes but it seems that most errors can be sanded out or
glassed over with little damage to the performance or appearance of the boat.
     I think a plywood boat is the way to go for a first timer.  They look good
and are likely to go together faster than a wood strip design.  Plywood designs
can be very high performance and should be able to l keep up with a a
comparable woodstrip boat.


author: John Fereira

subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
"Kenneth McClelland" <[email]> wrote in
news:KSn2d.5920$VV2.5405@trndny06:

That's the spirit.  To offer another perspective, I have built both a stitch
-n-glue (from a kit) and a cedar strip boat (from plans).  For the latter, I
milled my own strips and essentially built from scratch.  Someone suggested
that I cedar strip boat was more expensive.  In my case, I spent several
hundred dollars more building the S&G boat than the cedar strip.  On the
other hand, I was able to use some of the tools that I bought to build the
S&G boat for the stripper.

The stripper took considerably longer to build than the S&G but neither is
something that you're going to knock off on a weekend and it's worth taking
your time and doing it right.

Several people have suggested building a S&G first but a lot of people have
built cedar strip boats as their first and fortunately there are a lot of
resources that will help you do so.  When I built mine I put together a
binder of printouts from various web pages (including quite a few from the
oneoceankayak site).  Nick Schade's boat building forum (and the rest of his
site at http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Building/Building.html) is pretty
much essential.  The Newfound Woodworks and several others all contain good
information. One thing you'll discover is there is no one correct way to
build a boat so using a variety of sources will help you find the best way
to build the boat that you want.  There are also quite a few different
designs available.  Nick's Guillemot's are very popular, the One Ocean boats
look nice, as do the Redfish boats and several others.  I built Jay Babina's
Outer Island.

In addition to web resources I recommend Nick Schade's "Strip built
kayak..." book.  There are others.  I also bought a copy of the video from
homegrownboats.com which I found very helpful.

One area where it might pay to build an "easier" boat first is in working
with fiberglass and epoxy resin.  I didn't find the building process on the
cedar strip boat the be that difficult.  The process is very forgiving,
probably more so than building a S&G boat if you build from plans.

Gather as much information as you can, pick a design, then buy the materials
and start building.  Having a friend that will cut cedar strips for you is a
great advantage.


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
first time results on a cedar strip boat may not look like the
professionaly built boats in the advertising photos. of teh two cases I
know of a couple of guys built one soon after the technique first appeared
in Popular Mechanics magazine in the 1970's and it was not too good. but
teh second one they built was good. In the other case the guy was not
happy with the apparance of his baot so he painted it white. Nothing wrong
structurally. In addition I did see a pretty bad first attempt for sale a
couple years ago, big gaps between the strips and a set of bent ribs had
been added later.

I think to do a good job on the first cedar strip boat would take extra
time. Maybe none of the people above had the patience to read and follow
instructions (it happens) or the ability until recently to look at a lot
of examples of construction projects on the Internet.

A word on plywood boat kits: some companies put the plans into a computer
and cut the plywood panels by computer on a cutting board. It removes
a lot of chances for error on the part of the builder. The builder still
has to make sure the boat is straight and plumb when the long wobbly panels
are all tied together before starting to glue them permenantly in place.


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
I've started a S & G Tutuorial.

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/forum/


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Ulli <[email]> wrote in news:[email]:

I disagree.  Both require learning how to work with fiberglass cloth and
epoxy resin.  Both may use a similar method for constructing the cockpit
rim, hatches, an basic rigging.

Of course, one could build a S&G hull, strip-planked deck hybrid and learn
skills required for both at the same time.


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
There's much to be learned from working with epoxy and fiberglass. A S &
G boat will be more forgiving to errors. I think one could gain quite a
bit from building a S & G first.

Just my $.02.


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
Thanks for the details. I printed out the order for the video. That and the
plans order are going into my Christmas/Birthday wish list for my wife. She
always complains that I don't know what I want for those occasions. Well
this year I'm prepared ;> I was already looking at the book you mentioned
and that is going to get ordered very soon so that I have it to read on an
upcoming trip I have to take for work. Nothing like being stuck in a hotel
room to get some good reading done.


subject: Re: Kayak Building

text:
I would like to take this time to thank everyone for their input. (BTW - I
started this thread just in case you haven't followed the whole thing.) I
have made my decision and am going to do the One Ocean Cirrus (S&G) this
winter. The final decision point was the time involved. I will be starting a
few classes on-line in a little while and the time left over would not allow
the completion of a strip built, in time for next year's paddling. Luckily
my computer and shop are mere feet away from each other and I will be able
to move between classes and the project quickly (this after my normal 40+
hours at a job), this will be a big help while waiting for things to dry for
the next step. This will provide me with a new boat to paddle next summer
and if all goes well and I enjoy the process, I will do a strip built next
winter. Again thank you for all your responses. I'll let you know when I
start cutting wood and let you know how I make out.


author: P. Moss

subject: Re: A good thing about AOL, seriously

text:
Nothing is worth the stigma of having "aol.com" as part of your e-mail addy.

-patrick


author: Loren Sanders

subject: Re: A good thing about AOL, seriously

text:
radio

Yeah, way back when I was on AOSmell, I did dig the NG access being so
simple!

Loren


author: Dokter Z

subject: Re: A good thing about AOL, seriously

text:
"Davids Ego" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

stations

Some might view that as yet another reason to stay away from AOL...  :)

Z


author: Sudish Joseph

subject: The df server

text:
What is the method used for deciding stats on bradbert?  It seems to
factor time/damage in, but I'd like to know what the actual formula
used is.  Also, are these df stats permanent?  If not, why have them?
The existing "score" command, and the robot's periodic announcements
seem to be just fine.

There's a bug in the score computation process.  The server isn't
resetting everyone's stats before starting the next tourney.  It seems
to be lowering the score on the basis of your score against particular
players, and not considering everyone you played.  So you wind up with
some kills going into the next tourney.  Players who did badly will
have none, it gets so that if you win one or two, you're bound to keep
on winning (in the sense of being on top of the score list, at least :)

Finally, reset the stupid db that seems to have been inherited from
calvin.

-Sudish


author: Tatsuya Murase

subject: Re: The df server

text:
[email] (Sudish Joseph) writes:

Currently, the stats are much like they are in normal play, except
it tracks kills, mutuals, oggs instead of planets, armies, offense.
It does NOT track or factor your damage or the time spent killing
an opponent.

uhh, because it might be neat to see a more permanent list of
who's a good dogfighter?

hmm, i've also noticed that tourney stats can get messed up is when people
leave or enter in the middle of the tourney.  when someone leaves, and
someone else comes into that slot, i've noticed the new person inheriting
the record of the person who just left.

but the the kills generally get reset to zero after each tourney.

done.

--tots


subject: Re: The df server

text:
tots> [email] (Sudish Joseph) writes:

 tots> Currently, the stats are much like they are in normal play, except
 tots> it tracks kills, mutuals, oggs instead of planets, armies, offense.
 tots> It does NOT track or factor your damage or the time spent killing
 tots> an opponent.

I assume you mean that you get a planet per kill, etc.  If not,
elaborate.  If it is a planet per kill, time to kill your opponent is
definitely a factor, since your planet rating is simply the number of
planets (read kills) you've taken, normalized over time (ie. how fast
you killed 'em) and the rest of the player db.

Actually, how does the df server compute time?  Is it one unit per
battle (should be, if what you say is true), or just the time you're
on the server?  In the second case, your stats will drop if you're
sitting in the center waiting for an opponent to become available.

Also, how do you determine what is an ogg on a df server?  If it's
simply the act of cloaking, can I increase my ogg rating by cloaking
and uncloaking every time I res.?

 tots> uhh, because it might be neat to see a more permanent list of
 tots> who's a good dogfighter?

I should've been clearer.  I got the distinct impression that they
weren't permanent, coz my stats would be > 20 (which is in itself a
bit ridiculous) when I quit, only to be back at my calvin level of
~4.5 when I logged in next time.

 tots> hmm, i've also noticed that tourney stats can get messed up is
 tots> when people leave or enter in the middle of the tourney.  when
 tots> someone leaves, and someone else comes into that slot, i've
 tots> noticed the new person inheriting the record of the person who
 tots> just left.

 tots> but the the kills generally get reset to zero after each tourney.

This is incorrect.  Ask Joe or Charlie Brown (dstaboz@udel sp?), we
played 5 or 6 tourneys, most of them with 7 players or so; during which
we explicitly reset the tourney (via voting) at least twice.  After
the first few tourneys, we had 5 or 6 kill advantages going into each
new tourney.

 tots> done.

Cool.  This will fix one problem at least -- it should reduce the
large fluctuations in DI that result from gaining kills.  Which
fluctuations (I think) were due to the fact that the kill was being
credited as a planet, and not even the calvin db has scumming rates
equivalent to kill rates.

-Sudish


author: Jonathan Ellis

subject: Re: The df server

text:
In article <3j1508$[email]> [email] (Tatsuya Murase) writes:
	What is an "ogg" in the bradbert context?  And why is it when I
quit out of my 40+ rating lt (had the DI to make lt. cmdr but didn't wnat
to die to do it ;-) my stats got reset?

Jonathan Ellis
maniac


subject: Re: The df server

text:
[email] (Jonathan Ellis) writes:

in the world of Mars the three stats are:

kills:  you killed your opponent with your weapons
mutuals:  you killed each other with weapons
oggs:  you killed him with your explosion (he got a kill)

i think it tracks deaths as well.  in the source code (marsdefs.h i think)
it claims that oggs are "the worst stats to have".

because the server has a .twink file in the LIBDIR that tracks people
like yourself :)  no, it's because of the calvin db which is no more.

--tots


author: Mr. Ogre

subject: Re: The df server

text:
Tatsuya Murase ([email]) wrote:

You get 1.0 kills, he gets 0

You both get 0.7 kills

you get 0.5 kills, he gets 0.7


author: Bob

subject: Speaking of FMS....

text:
After the recent mentions of the free FMS simulator here, I ordered a USB
interface for my Tx.  It works well.  It came with the Version 2 Beta7 of
FMS on CD.

After I set it all up and started playing around with it, I was quickly
reminded of some of the things that bugged me about the program when I first
downloaded it and tried it with my keyboard.  (like how the heck do you stop
the airplane once it's on the ground? What does "nick" represent on the
control mapping page? etc., etc..)  I had hoped to find the answers to some
of my questions on an FMS forum or help file somewhere....

The FMS homepage has a forum link, but it doesn't work for me.  Does anyone
know if there IS an active FMS forum (or if the FMS forum site is just
temporarily down)?  I figure FMS is pretty popular and somewhere, someone
must have a good website with helpful information.  I Googled and didn't
come up with much at all.

Thanks for any information,
Bob Scott

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author: Andy

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
Try this one Bob http://www.fms.pathbot.com/
When I set up my usb interface with my Tx during calibration I left the
throttle stick open 2 clicks when it said to leave the sticks centred, then
when calibration was finished this allowed me to cut the engine when the
stick is fully down.I have not come accross "nick"  on mine, only reverse
and exponential tick boxes. Hope this helps.
Andy.

"Bob" <[email]> wrote in message
news:40477dcd$[email]...
first
stop
some
anyone


author: John Alt

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
In article <40477dcd$[email]>, [email]
says...

The first four mappings are your standard 4 aircraft functions. The
second four are for helicopters. Nick is the elevator, with the pitch
control being collective. I might have those two backwards, but you get
the point. There is no throttle that I know of, unless the keyboard is
used. The exponential checkbox does weird things to trim if it's marked,
at least on my machine. The inv checkbox is "servo reversing", btw, so
you don't have to change your transmitter settings.


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
I have just downloaded the latest version (8.1) and found that if I don`t
de-select  "simulate empty tank" in the simulation parameters, then I do not
have any throttle. otherwise seams ok.
Andy.


author: ray fisher

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
"Bob" <[email]> wrote in message
news:40477dcd$[email]...
first
stop
some
anyone
www.rc-sim.com has an english speaking forum for FMS.

or try the simulator forum at www.rcgroups .com


author: Olivier tx2tx

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
Hi,

The FMS-site has indeed an active forum, most in English, some Germans are
only posting in German...
The link works for me (but indeed seems to be down for the moment :
thursday, 22h00 UTC)
click the link and then click on forum :
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index.html
Olivier


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
"Andy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:jTP1c.1249$m56.484@newsfe1-win...

That gets me to the FMS home page, but the Forums link still doesn't work
for me.  I guess the forums are down temporarily.

then

I'll give that a try.

It's on the list of eight things to assign to Tx inputs.  The first four are
obvious:  "Rudder," "Elevator," "Ailerons," "Throttle."  But then there are
"Tail," "Nick," "Roll" and "Pitch."   If you're using a four-channel Tx,
what are the correct assignments for these four?

The sim seems to work pretty well but I find I have some problems with
rudder authority.  I'm unable to knife-edge any of the models, even the
Pitts or Sukhoi.  The rudder seems to work very well with the SuperCub and
pretty well with the Pitts, but is very ineffective with the Sukhoi.

It did.  Thanks very much!

Bob Scott

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author: Ken Mattsson

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
I just downloaded the recommended FMS version, 2.0 beta 7, but cannot get it
to function properly.

Now, I downloaded this version although it doesnï¿½t say it supports XP,
because Iï¿½ve read many win2000 programs may function under XP as well. Also,
I was a bit afraid of downloading an alfa version, thinking it may be very
buggy.

I have good hardware, the graphics driver is radeon 9800 and the processor
is a P4 2,6. Everything else works fine, just cannot get FMS to rock. Did
get it installed, do get it running, but loading a background takes minutes,
the same for a plane and the initialization takes almost forever (meaning
like 5-10 minutes=). The frame rate is probably near zero on the ground,
gets good in the air, then slows down again when the background comes in
sight until yourï¿½re back to almost zero again. Oh, and by the way, this is
when running in full screen mode, trying to run it in a window is 10 times
worse, I mean slower.

Does this mean I should try the alfa version instead or is there some other
tweak I should try out? I got the RC-electronics pic-serial interface so Iï¿½m
dying to try out the sim with the tx, but thereï¿½s no use trying that before
I can at least get the whole thing working with the keyboard.

I too tried to go to the FMS Forum today, didnï¿½t work though. So, hopefully
someone could give me a hint or two of what to try next?

TIA, Ken


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
"Olivier tx2tx" <[email]> wrote in message
news:40479522$1$323$[email]...

Thanks for the information, Oliver.  I'm happy to find that there is indeed
a working forum.  Apparently, it's just not working right now....   I'll try
again tomorrow night.

Good flying,
Bob

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subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
says...
It's easy to change the model parameters. In your FMS directory, there
is a folder marked Models. Inside, you will find (usually) 6 files with
the name of the model, followed by different extensions, such as BMP,
MQO, etc. The model parameters are controlled by the .PAR file

Pick one, such as Pitts.PAR, open with notepad or wordpad. It's a text
file.

For BETA 7, you will see lines like the following if the author was
German or they just modified an existing model and didn't change the
documentation

0         iModelType: 0 = Flugzeug 1
25       Motorkraft: Schub in Newton 2
0.022    Seitenruderausschlag in rad 3
0.09    Max. Hoehenruderausschlag in rad 4
0.004  Querruderausschlag (Flï¿½gelverwindung) in rad 5

Now, there are 26 lines of code in a particular order, no error
checking. The number at the beginning of the line is read and everything
else is a comment. Editing that leading number will change the
performance, and you can write the original number next to it if you
want to change it back, such as

0.01    (Orig .022) Seitenruderausschlag in rad 3

Now, here is a PAR file with English definitions. It's for an F 100. If
you don't have one in English, I suggest you copy and paste the
following someplace you can find it. The order or items MUST stay the
same, so if you have a german/japanese/whatever file, changing the
leading number on line 3 will affect the rudder no matter what the
comment says.

0        1:Type(-)      Type[0=Plane] ParDesigner Ver0.8
50       2:Tmax(N)      Maximum Thrust
0.02      3:Drmax(rad)   Maximun Rudder Angle
0.04     4:Demax(rad)   Maxmim Elevator Angle
0.006    5:Damax(rad)   Maximim Aileron Angle
1.0      6:CLmax(-)     Maximum Lift Coefficient
-1.0     7:CLmin(-)     Minimum Lift Coefficient
8        8:CLa(/rad)    Lift Gradient
13       9:CLaSt(/rad)  Lift Gradient in Stall
0.018    10:CDw(-)      Drag Coefficient of Wing
0.02     11:CDb(-)      Drag Coefficient of Fuselage
0.4      12:mug(-)      Friction Coefficient of Wheels
0.76     13:dCDSt(-)    Rise of Drag Coefficient in Stall
-0.007    14:CM(-)       Moment Coefficient
0.005    15:alpha0(rad) Wing Angle
1.6      16:b(m)        Wing Span
0.32     17:c(m)        Wing Chord
0.08     18:hce(m)      Equivalent Center of Gravity
1.8      19:m(Kg)       Mass
0.05     20:Izz(Kg*m^2) Yaw Inertia Moment
0.05     21:Iyy(Kg*m^2) Pitch Inertia Moment
0.06     22:Ixx(Kg*m^2) Roll Inertia Moment
0.09     23:She(m^2)    Effective Area of Stab
0.03     24:Sfe(m^2)    Effective Area of fin
1        25:Lt(m)       Tail Moment Arm
0.02    26:VForm(-)    Effect of Dihedral Angle (.04)

You could change the rudder performance by changing line 3 from .02 to
.1 or whatever. Note angles are in radians, other units are metric.
Double what you have, try it, and adjust. You could also change Yaw
inertia, Effective area of fin, tail moment, etc. to change the rudder
influence.

Have fun


author: Dave Thompson

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
"Ken Mattsson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:c29phc$90m$[email]...
it
Also,

Use Beta 8 and turn off True Alpha Shadow under graphics.


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
John,

That was some valuable information!  Thanks for sharing it.  I think it will
help me enjoy the sim a lot more.

I'm still curious about what numbers to plug into the "Tail, "Nick," "Roll"
and "Pitch" boxes on the control mapping page.  Can you or anyone help me
with that one?

Good flying,
Bob Scott

"John Alt" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
and

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subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
"Dave Thompson" <[email]> kirjoitti viestissï¿½
news:lB02c.28164$aZ3.15344@fed1read04...

Thanks Dave! Now it works very nicely indeed! :-)

I find the wind setting of wind 1 m/s, gusts 1 m/s to feel very realistic
for a very usual flight day, meaning that it feels like much more wind than
the numbers would suggest, but still a light wind and something I would be
flying in.

Is it true that the planes for the earlier version, the beta, cannot be used
yet with this alfa? Would be great with an aileron trainer, the Suhoi and
the double decker feel a little too hot to train with.

A HUGE THANKS  to the guys behind this sim!!!!!!!!!


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
Bob <[email]> wrote:

: I'm still curious about what numbers to plug into the "Tail, "Nick," "Roll"
: and "Pitch" boxes on the control mapping page.  Can you or anyone help me
: with that one?

They seem to be the controls for choppers, so that you can define different
setups for a fixed wing and a chopper. I fly with a Logitech game
controller, and have fixed wing throttle set for controller throttle slider,
but for a chopper the throttle ("Nick" I think) is in the left stick.

-Tapio-


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
says...
I put it in another post, but I'll repeat it here:

The first four mappings are your standard 4 aircraft functions. The
second four are for helicopters. Nick is the elevator, with the pitch
control being collective. I might have those two backwards, but you get
the point. There is no throttle that I know of, unless the keyboard is
used. The exponential checkbox does weird things to trim if it's marked,
at least on my machine. The inv checkbox is "servo reversing", btw, so
you don't have to change your transmitter settings.


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:c2ah96$a8u$[email]...
"Roll"
me
different
slider,

Just see which channels your controller activates and assign at will.  You
can assign the same number to both the upper (fixed wing) and lower
(helicopter).


subject: Re: Speaking of FMS....

text:
Dave Thompson <[email]> wrote:

: Just see which channels your controller activates and assign at will.  You
: can assign the same number to both the upper (fixed wing) and lower
: (helicopter).

The different location for the throttle is intentional (the other three
channels are the same for FW and chopper), but I have not so far modified my
game controller not to center the left stick forward movement, thus I prefer
to use the throttle slider for FW (slam it open and let go :) , while using
the centering stick for throttle in chopper.

-Tapio-


author: Mike Weber

subject: Re: Star Trek Stars: Would you sleep with...

text:
In a previous article, [email] (Sergey Shimkevich) says:

Hmmm....

Odo could turn into anything you wanted, so you could save a LOT on
those expensive "toys".

The Borg would no doubt have some interesting accessories on them...

Of course, one should avoid Betazoids at all costs. Always moaning
about "the pain"...


author: Wolf Lahti

text: How about that white horse Picard was riding on the holodeck?


author: Erin Callahan Greeley

text:
In article <3fq5th$[email]> [email]
(Mike Weber) writes:
Q.  First of all, he's omnipotent.  That's got to be good for something.
Secondly, his voice (and he's kinda cute, too, in a quirky sort of way).
In my book, he beats any of the male regulars.


author: Lynda Moulton

text:
In article <3g48dg$[email]>, [email] (Erin Callahan Greeley) says:

BEST line on Voyager Episode: (Slightly paraphrased)

Chacotay to Janeway:

"If things were reversed, would you serve under me?"

Janeway turns and looks at him silently for a moment before she says:

"The good thing about being Captain, is that some things you can
keep to yourself."

BWWAHAHAHAHAHAH.  I'd have said "In a Starbase minute!"  woo woo

Seriously,  Patrick Stewart is in AMAZING shape for his age.  Then
there's Frakes...hmmm.  Decisions decisions. :),,

Lynda
                                              __
                              |\___/|        /\ \
__________________________oooO_\o o/__Oooo__/_/\ \____________________
Lynda Moulton		  '''' =(_)=  ''''      \_\
[email]                     [email]


author: Grant Farrington

subject: Extreme lag-outs with blade spirits

text:
A friend of mine is experiencing extreme lag-outs whenever a blade
spirit is cast. He typically lags out anywhere from 15 seconds to one
minute.

Anyone got any idea what's causing this ?

Cheers,

Fazza - Councilor OtR
Order of the Rose, Oceania Shard
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~fazza1964


author: Otara

subject: Re: Extreme lag-outs with blade spirits

text:
Slow computer or video card?

Otara

On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 13:26:39 +1000, Grant Farrington
<[email]> wrote:


author: Maverick

subject: Re: Extreme lag-outs with blade spirits

text:
I have exactly the same problem, and have yet to find solution.

When 2 blades are attacking (either ones I cast, or other people cast) my
screen virtually freezes)

I have tried it on my computer and laptop, happens on both.

Was told to try dif modem, which I did on my main machine.
Am running a AMD 550, with vodoo 3 card in it.
Tried internal 56k and external 56k US robotics modem.

None of this has resolved it :(

Have tried emailing OSI, yet waiting on reply.  So any tips/suggestions
would be great thanks.

All the best
Maverick

"Otara" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Extreme lag-outs with blade spirits

text:
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 04:24:36 GMT, Otara <[email]> wrote:

No he's got a p3 500 with tnt2 card ... his system is ok and all
latest drivers ect ... no problems at all with anything other than
this weird lag out when a blade is cast

Cheers,

Fazza - Councilor OtR
Order of the Rose, Oceania Shard
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~fazza1964


subject: war is the only answer

text:
if we dont go into war they will stomp all over us again..they were celebrating
in the streets..they're mad and they deserve whats coming to them.


author: Steven Sullivan

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
NigHTs1000 <[email]> wrote:
: if we dont go into war they will stomp all over us again..they were celebrating
: in the streets..they're mad and they deserve whats coming to them.

You're mad and deserve what's coming to you.


author: M Arino

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
I thought of the terrorist attack as something analog to a volcano or
a swarm of killer bees rather than comparing it to an act of the
classic "free will" of the human race.

I tend to think that responsability is beyond the scope of those
fanatics, and indignation here is of little use... better save up
energies to face the loss of lives, the prevention of anything similar
happening and the economic crisis we are heading to.

Punishment?  Oh, yeah, that's human, but they'll never learn.  Unless
you think about the "prevention" while erradicating the terrorist
menace, what use is the "fight fire with fire" ethic here?  The muslim
fanatics won't ever learn, and war... against whom????

[email] (NigHTs1000) wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: Squirrel Police

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
[email] (NigHTs1000) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

My heart is filled with anger, as yours. But it is also sick with fear
and anxiety and conflicting emotions. The Senators and and
Representatives were on the news shows last night, proclaiming "The
people are united! Democran and Republicrat, young and old! We will
crush those who commited this horrible act!" Same thing this
morning...
"We will wipe out them out!" I feel manipulated. I feel that
our leaders our using our anger for their own ends. The messages
we're getting on the media and from our congress are too uniform,
too undivided. Everyone talks about "declaring war," and "fighting
back." Against whom? Against the Arab nations that, conveniently,
we've been resenting for decades.

I'm not so convinced that Bin Ladin is responsible, anyway.
And it's suspicious to me that he almost automatically
became the de facto culprit, before any evidence could be
collected, much less evaluated. It's only "common sense,"
isn't it? Well, what's "common sense" isn't always the truth.
The media barraged us with a uniform message yesterday:
Bin Ladin is the _only_ one capable of this. He's the only
one with the financing (never mind the many governments
whose interests lie in harming the U.S), but more importantly,
he's the only one capable of the incredibly COMPLEX
coordination required for the attack. And then we are told that
this MASTERMIND  conveniently allowed vital, incriminating
evidence to come to light less then a day after his crime.

I'm not saying that Bin Ladin didn't do it. In fact, he
probably did. But even so, it's alarming that the whole country
wants to "attack the Arabs," "nuke the middle east!"
It _is_ disturbing to see Muslims in the streets, celebrating
our suffering -- but does that mean they are all part of some
vast conspiracy against the World Trade Center, and that they
are guilty and deserving of death? Did we not ourselves celebrate
after the bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, far wors crimes
against humanity?

Why do the Muslim extremists hate us, anyway?
People never question their motives, they're just, well
evil, and insane, who knows why they do anything.
Well, they are evil. But they still have their reasons.
They are half a world away! We are not bickering neighbors.
The only reason they hate us is because of our constant,
arrogant meddling in their affairs. We straddle the earth like it
belongs to us, doing whatever we want to whomever we
please. We set up friendly dictatorships, and change the
lines on the map at will, with the aid with our
self-legitimizing puppets, the U.N.  Our government's foreign
policy of bending the world to our will is finally
coming to sad fruition.

I _do_ love my country, and I _do_ want to see the murderers
brought to justice. But I have a lot of questions, and
I'm frightened that nobody else seems to be asking them.


author: DrXparamental

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Please read this objectively. It is the only precise thinking I have
encountered on this matter so far. Just my opinion.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/


author: Biffy the Elephant Shrew

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
[email] (NigHTs1000) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Hate is the root of cancer.

Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew


author: *Legion*

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Jon Anderson disagrees.

"Love is the only answer
Hate is the root of cancer then"

(insert ridiculous sounding strings here)

-- *L*


author: Alex

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
NigHTs1000 wrote:

    "Quick to judge, Quick to anger
    Slow to understand
    Ignorance and prejudice
    And fear walk hand in hand"
    (Neil Peart)

(And this may also apply to those responsible of these acts...)

I am from Quï¿½bec and I am not directly affected by the events (although I feel very
sad for the victims and their families). But I would think that it is too early to
judge and take positions right now, as another poster pointed out. What is the
whole truth ?

Bye
Alex


author: Moebius x

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Steven Sullivan <[email]> wrote in message
news:DCCn7.519$[email]...
celebrating

We're all mad and we deserve what's coming to them.


author: Mike Reiss

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
M Arino <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Really? I thought of it as something digital.

M.

news:<[email]>...
celebrating


author: CountV/John T

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On 1-09-12 18.50, Squirrel Police <[email]> thought of
this to say:

And those reasons need to be looked at before deciding on a course of
action.

Flattening Aghanistan (or wherever else Operation Swift Vengeance will be
targeted) won't exactly *reduce* the resentment against the US. If it
doesn't also significantly reduce the ability of those who do resent the US
to band together and plan terrorist attacks, then it could be the absolutely
worst solution of all.

My fear exactly.

Revenge may be tasty and pleasant to some, but one also has to look at the
long-term consequences, based on the reasons behind this tragic event, which
I don't see anyone doing as of yet (except some fringe lefties, which tend
to infuse their musings with a lot of other rhetoric and conclusions I don't
agree much with).


author: Brandon Wu

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

Frankly, not to sound crass, but it would be best for the entire world if
it was a white American responsible for all this stuff.  Like Oklahoma
City.

Excellent post.  Thanks for your cogency and reason.

-B


author: Terrell Miller

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
"Squirrel Police" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<[email]>...

All the evidence is pointing that way. And yes, he should be hunted down and
brought to justice.

It's especially alarming because Afghanistan is not an Arab nation.
(Desperate attempt to find a bright side: maybe this tragedy will cause more
people to be aware that "Arab" and "Muslim" and "Middle Eastern" are *not*
synonymous).

Excerpts from Microsoft Encarta 2000:

Pashtuns, ethnic group, numbering about 13 million, in southeastern
Afghanistan and northwestern Pakistan. Pashtuns are also known as Pushtuns,
Pakhtuns, or Pathans. Until the term Afghan came to mean any native of
Afghanistan, Pashtuns were called Afghans. Pashtuns are the majority of the
population in Afghanistan and the largest ethnic minority in Pakistan.
The Pashtuns are organized into more than 50 tribes, each divided into
subtribes, clans, and subclans. The leaders of tribes, known as khans, have
limited power. Important matters are usually settled by subtribe and clan
chiefs, or by a tribal council. While some clans embrace the Shiite sect of
Islam, the overwhelming majority of Pashtuns are Sunnites, the largest
branch of Islam. Pashtuns have always resisted efforts to impose government
control on their society.
The Pashtun language, Pashto, belongs to the Iranian branch of the
Indo-Iranian languages. It has two main dialects, Kandahari Pashto and
Peshwari Pashto, identified with the cities of Kandahï¿½r and Peshï¿½war,
respectively. Pashto is written in an Arabic script, modified to include
certain sounds not found in Arabic speech.
Pashtuns believe they are descended from a common ancestor named Afghana
who lived in what is now Afghanistan in ancient times. Pashtun tradition
holds that Afghana was a grandson of Saul, the first king of ancient Israel.

The Taliban, an Islamic movement dominated by Pashtuns, seized the Afghan
capital of Kï¿½bul in 1996. After taking control of the capital, the Taliban
quickly imposed strict Islamic law. Taliban-and Pashtun-control of the
country was quickly challenged by Tajik and Uzbek ethnic militia groups,
ushering in a new phase of the ongoing turmoil in Afghanistan.

"Pashtuns," Microsoftï¿½ Encartaï¿½ Encyclopedia 2000. ï¿½ 1993-1999 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved.


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Biffy the Elephant Shrew <[email]> wrote:
: [email] (NigHTs1000) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

:> war is the only answer

: Hate is the root of cancer.

Actually, the root of cancer is more likely the breakdown of DNA
proofreading mechanisms.

HTH.


author: Zero the Hero

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
The entire newsgroup points and laughs at Moebius x for saying:

I'm mad as hell and I can't take it anymore.


author: Johan Lif

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
CountV/John T <[email]> wrote:

Either we have different frames of references or you haven't been
looking closely enough. Robert Fisk of The Independant has been
thoughtful and reasonable, while The Guardian also put things in
perspective. I've seen good commentaries, along with smaller doses of
conspiracy blather, from people you may or may not dismiss as "fringe
lefties", at the newsgroup misc.activism.progressive, the web sites
alternet.org and marxists.org (despite the Trotskyist rhetorics of the
latter), as well as the Marxmail and LBO mailing lists, and other
sources (like a "quick reaction" from Noam Chomsky).

Johan


author: David Rheault

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
"CountV/John T" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

How many of those reasons have actually been addressed by the pundits over
the last 24 hours? Bury your head in the sand and the problem will go away.
If not, cast around for other scape-goats. Avoid the bitter truth like the
plague.

'Tis a nation of solid barren granite mountains. Flattening it ain't gonna
be easy. The Russian bear got so many bee stings that he left the Afghani
honey tree. Afghani historical context: 10 tribes, they fight each other.
You invade, they fight YOU!

which
don't

Get your filthy hands off my desert.
                     ----Roger Waters

dcr


author: L Perez

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
CountV/John T <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

"We straddle the earth like it
belongs to us, doing whatever we want to whomever we
please. We set up friendly dictatorships, and change the
lines on the map at will, with the aid with our
self-legitimizing puppets, the U.N.  Our government's foreign
policy of bending the world to our will..."

This is why they hate us. Everything the US does is to manipulate
events to serve our greed (though the protection of Israel seems
benevolent on the surface) I understand their hatred of us, it's not
hard to see if you take a step back. Does that justify their "jihad"
against us? ABSOLUTELY NOT! So what's the solution? Of course there is
only one solution and only a tiny percentage of Humans agree on it...
that is, we dispense with all forms of governments and boundaries and
currencies and share Earths fruits equally among all people of the
world. <sound of roaring laughter> but I *am* serious. "Do to your
neighbor what you would have him do to you"


author: Dan Shapiro

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Brandon Wu wrote:

Your statement is utterly crass and disgusting. Yes that would make it very
simple to blame the KKK, the militia and white Americans.  How about the
Young Republicans and Rush Limbaugh as well?   That would certainly make a
convenient PC target wouldn't it?  Let's just hire the ACLU on this case and
see how fast those lawyers eradicate the scum who did this atrocity.

I dont but into all of the media hysteria and am not ready to sacrifice my
personal freedoms for the sake of safety.  It isn't a good time to inject
liberal or conservative biases into the need for restraint and reason.


author: Alex Temple

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:23:11 -0400 "Terrell Miller" <[email]> wrote:

What is the exact definition of "Arab"?


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
"Terrell Miller" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9nsr1q$nva$[email]...
more

Unfortunately, those are distinctions too many people who *should* have
access to education in the USA don't care about. I heard a local Sikh
removed his turban because he was afraid of being attacked and Sikhs aren't
even Muslims!  He didn't have much confidance that the US educational system
would enlighten people as to the differences!

Pushtuns,
the
have
of
government
Israel.

We all have access to some understanding of these distinctions, but too many
people are unable or unwilling to teach Americans about these far-flung
places. Foreign policy wonks don't care either because they want such things
to remain their private reserve of knowledge and don't care about the fact
that geography is not even taught in schools in the USA.

dcr


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
In article <7sOn7.547$[email]>, Steven Sullivan
<[email]> wrote:

news:<[email]>...

Yeah, but that doesn't *rhyme*.

Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
Set your chickens free!


author: Robert Carlberg

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Signs point to unregulated growth-factor with the normal morbidity of the
gene-line somehow suppressed -- but nobody's quite sure why yet.


author: Richard Lamont

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Steven Sullivan <[email]> wrote in message
news:7sOn7.547$[email]...
news:<[email]>...

I'd like to quote Yoda here except I can't quite remember the words. Help me
out someone.


author: Bradley Evans

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Zero the Hero writes:

The election was ten months ago Jason. Get over it.

-Brad
 NP: New Air - Live at Montreal International Jazz Festival


author: atom

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
L Perez wrote:

This is ridiculously simplistic.  Fundamentalist Muslims hate us primcipally because our society has values that are
very different from theirs, and because we are very successful while they are essentially very poor and mostly
non-players on the world stage.  These are basically primitive nations that are lagging farther and farther behind as
the rest of the world progresses, and the resentment is clear.

This is laughable.  These people are themselves to blame for the state that their nations are in, for if they would
revolt and adopt the Western values of fundamental human rights into their goverments and set up a semblance of a
market economy, they could share in the fruits of the rest of the world as well.
They, of course, retain the sovereignty to live however they wish, but the dictatorial, religion-laden police states
that many of these nations have opted for keeps them in the "stone age" as effectively as any carpet-bombing
mission.  Their only link to the global market economy is their oil.  As soon as we break this cord, it will be a
very interesting time for these nations.

Matt P


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On 13 Sep 2001 01:54:08 -0700 [email] (L Perez) wrote:

Problem:  if all benevolent, rational human beings agree to dispense with government, that leaves the malicious, irrational ones to seize power.


author: Squirrel Police

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
[email] (L Perez) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Heh, it's funny how we agreed totally until this paragraph, and then
_whoosh_. Your vision of a beautiful, fair utopia would only be
possible if everyone involved was gracious and kind and all-around
moral. Unfortunately, morality on a societal level doesn't exist
without religion, if then. Religion can be a powerful force for
good[1]
And a society that rejects religion is a pragmatic society that has
little concern for abstract concepts of good and evil.

Besides, creating a worldwide Utopia would require drafting
those peoples and countries that don't _want_ to be Utopized.
And such a coercion would automatically invalidate the New
Order right at the starting gate.

The best option for you Utopians seems to be to create your
own little Utopia first, and if it's really so groovy,
the rest of the world will be clamoring to join in.
But if the Soviet Union and China are any indicators...
"No fair," cry the loyalists. "It wasn't really tried
there -- they just used the vision of a worker's
Utopia as a front for installing their own regime."
Fair enough. But seeing as how so many of the
oppressive regimes of the past century were built
on the platform of collectivism, it's natural, if
not completely logical, to assume that _any_ attempt
to create a Utopian Wonderland (tm) will result in
totalitarianism.

I've rambled quite a bit here, I guess I'm using too many
words to say that an attempt to establish a thriving,
beautiful New Order will _always_ fail.

My simpler solution is, well, why not keep our fingers out
of other people's pies? Why not govern ourselves, and allow
the rest of the world to sort it out on their own? Why are
we constantly screwing with other nations, with the lame
excuse that we're "righting wrongs," while our own friends
and allies commit equal or worse crimes against their people?

Hmm, here's an interesting quote I found. Looks like
we may have financed our own attack:

"Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists, destroy
every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and the Bush
administration will embrace you...That's the message sent with the
recent gift of $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the
most virulent anti-American violators of human rights in the world
today. The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin
Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main
sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that "rogue regime" for
declaring that opium growing is against the will of God..."
--Los Angeles Time, May 22 2001.
http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/01_columns/052201.htm

===
"Economics: the art of rationalizing government behavior."

[1] Or evil, as we have seen.


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
"L Perez" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Yes indeed. Buddha said this 500 years before Christ. Right around the same
time that Confucius said it too.

dcr


author: Wes Taggart

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
I agree. This was part of the statement that I believe (it was a while back)
that when asking if this gentleman (Mr. Wu) was a citizen or not, I was
accused of being a racist. I wonder why no one asked this gentleman why he
targeted a nationality and race for this event.

Wes

"Dan Shapiro" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
if
very
and


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
"Alex Temple" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
<[email]> wrote:

Again from Microsoft Encarta 2000:

Arabs, name given to the ancient and present-day inhabitants of the Arabian
Peninsula and often applied to the peoples closely allied to them in
ancestry, language, religion, and culture. Presently more than 200 million
Arabs are living mainly in 21 countries; they constitute the overwhelming
majority of the population in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon,
Iraq, Egypt, and the nations of North Africa. The Arabic language is the
main symbol of cultural unity among these people, but the religion of Islam
provides another common bond for the majority of Arabs. Language and
religion are united in the Qur'an (Koran), the sacred scripture of Islam.


author: Lyle V. Lopez

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Richard Lamont wrote:

Uhhh...

<yoda> fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to
suffering...</yoda>


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
The entire newsgroup points and laughs at Bradley Evans for saying:

LOL!

Wait... did you get the reference?


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
atom <#[email]> wrote:

And you have the nerve to talk about "simplistic" ...

Johan


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:13:55 -0400 atom <#[email]> wrote:

Revolting against a powerful dictator or oligarchy is not exactly easy...


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
atom <#[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

so it's not our oppressive and destructive greed, it's just that
they're jealous?!? How complex a theory you have there...

yes, if only they could be like us, everything would be great. NOT!


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On 13 Sep 2001 09:16:00 -0700 [email] (Squirrel Police) wrote:

I have to disagree.  I am completely non-religious, but I have very
strong concepts of good and evil.  One could easily assemble a
society of, say, utilitarians or consequentialists, and that
society would be very concerned with abstract concepts of good
and evil, but could still very easily reject religion.

Here too:  do you think the US should have stayed out of WWII?
Is preventing the Holocaust something we have the right to do
if we have the required power, or is it none of our business?


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On 1-09-13 18.16, Squirrel Police <[email]> thought of
this to say:

Bullshit. Not a one of my close friends is religious. All of them have high
moral standards and are fine, compassionate human beings.

Religion can be a powerful force for *anything*, which makes it dangerous
when it 'falls into the wrong hands'. The primary problem with almost all
religions is that they do not encourage critical thinking, and the absence
of that ability is what leads people into all sorts of stupid and/or heinous
acts.


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:55:43 -0400 "Terrell Miller" <[email]> wrote:

So what ethnic group do the people of Afghanistan belong to?


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Johan Lif wrote:

It's the absolute truth.  Democratic market economies are the highest evolved
forms of government.  Read 'The End of History.'

Matt P


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
L Perez wrote:

It's not *only* jealousy, but it's a cycle that has repeated itself for the last 200 years, and it is happening in the
Middle East right now.  Asia, for the most part, has already made the decision to abandon the world of warlords and serfdom
and to organize themselves (roughly) politically and economically in alignment with the West.  Even China will allow Hong
Kong to more or less maintain the status quo; it would be economic suicide for them not to.  If there is any lesson to be
learned from the 20th century, it's that planned economies in nations that refuse to acknowledge their citizens' basic
human rights have a short shelf-life.  They are backward in sophistication to what Western nations have already discovered,
and if these nations want to keep pace with the rapidly progressing rest of the world, they will need to fall in line.

I don't care if they ever become like us.   They are sovereign states and may conduct their domestic affairs however they
want.  I'm simply saying -- as a prediction -- that the status quo in these nations is not going to last much longer
(relatively speaking).  When they no longer have oil as their trump card, they will  either have to evolve socially and
politically to keep pace with the rest of the world, or they will become the causualties of the rest of the world's
progress.  Whether they choose evolution or extinction is entirely up to them.  The events of the past week indicate that
they are leaning toward extinction.

Matt P


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Alex Temple <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

I disagree with your disagreement :-)
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of exceptions in the case
of individuals. But as a general principle, I believe that the
concept of morality is at odds with the pragmatism of humanism.
If someone weaker than you has something you want, and there is
no risk of retribution, it is only logical and natural to take
that thing which you desire. Of course you will not always
do so -- you may not want to get a reputation as a bully.
Perhaps you can achieve even greater gain by meting out justice
to other bullies. But it's still a pragmatic decision,
plusses and minuses -- "It's all about the bottom line."
When you think about it, charity and self-sacrifice are very
illogical, unbussinesslike attributes.

1. If we had stayed out of World War I, Hitler's rise to power
would not have occured in the first place. Our entry into that war
was totally unnessecary.

and besides

2. The holocaust argument is a thin one. We had no little or no
information about the holocaust until the latter stages of the
war. Hitler's murders were certainly horrific -- but our friend
and ally, Josef Stalin, had several years before orchestrated
the deaths of far more.

To round out this history lesson:

3. On the pacific front, Japan would never have attacked us
if we remained neutral in deed as well as word (see 1). And
I dare say that, had they been conquered, the people of China
would have fared better under Japanese slavemasters than under
their own. The unpunished atrocities of the Japanese are
well-publicized. Less so are the tens of millions who died
with Chairman Mao at the helm. Of course his successors
have, in their own small way, tried to live up to that
legacy.

As for the argument that Germany and Japan would have
"taken over the world, and we'd have been next,"
let's let that one lie.


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
CountV/John T <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

...
\
/
/ >leadspeople into all sorts of stupid and/or heinous acts.
/
   ------------------------------------------------------------------
  /
"|"       (follow the arrow)

First of all, your characterization of "almost all religions"
is just plain wrong.

But even if it weren't, since when was it religion's job to
teach "critical thinking?" I thought that was the task of
the fecal disgrace we know as the public school system.
And the idea that critical thinking leads to moral
behavior is in itself rather stupid.


author: Jeff Blanks

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
#[email] wrote:

As yet, _maybe_.  What about the future?


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On 13 Sep 2001 22:41:08 -0700 [email] (Squirrel Police) wrote:

You're missing a major point, which is that atheists are not always
merely pragmatists.  We have consciences.  And, unlike some (not
all, but some) religious people, who are only moral due to fear of hellfire, we follow our moral codes because we truly believe that causing pain is bad and causing happiness is good.

OK, so maybe I don't speak for every atheist in the world.  There
are moral and immoral non-religious people just as there are moral
and immoral religious people.  But I certainly speak for every atheist *I* know.

I won't press my WWII argument, because I don't have the historical
knowledge to back myself up very well.  However, I am absolutely
adamant on the points above.


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
"Squirrel Police" <[email]> wrote in message

Hungry Ghosts: China's Secret Famine. By Jasper Becker (The Free Press).
Read all about it.

dcr


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
Alex Temple <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Causing, pain is "bad," and causing happiness is "good?"
Terms like good and bad, righteous and evil lose their
meaning without the yardstick of concrete moral values,
generally dispensed by religion.

I'm not saying that it's a conscious thing. But when
one's only values are their own personal instincts for good,
how easy is it to mold those values when the situation
arises? Hence "the ends justify the means," "it's a dog
eat dog world," etc.

I feel uncomfortable saying this. I don't want to sound
holier-than-thou or self-righteous. I'm not saying that
you or any atheist is bound to be evil. Many of my kind
and loving friends are either atheist or firmly agnostic[1].
My own grandfather  was an atheist, and he was certainly a
kind man. But most of these only rejected God as they
grew into their adolescence and adulthood. And how much of
their inner morality was ingrained during their formative
years?

It's also true that among religious people are many of
the meanest, hypocritical, and by any measure, wickedest
people I know. _I'm_ far, far from perfect[1]. I just think
that our society has suffered morally as it's
become less and less religious over the years.

===
"Watch out for the gypsy children in electric dresses, they're
insane/I hear they live in crematoriums, and smoke your remains"
-- Stephen Malkmus

[1] And though I  don't neccesarily fear "hellfire,"
I _do_ wish that I was a better man than I am, and if
I was I would be better off for it, in this world and
the next. For instance, I notice that I have an
idiotic habit of beginning sentences with "but" and
"and." AARGH!


author: AllGdPple

subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
do not think that this is the fault of anyone BUT religion.

descendants of Ishmael, Jacob and Constantine(in a religious sense) have
demonstrated an uncharacteristically evil nature towards one another.

which religion should i take comfort in?

 true religion, pure and undefiled is to help those in need. the only result of
these worldy religions is the creation of the need.

kenny


subject: Re: war is the only answer

text:
On 14 Sep 2001 13:54:33 -0700 [email] (Squirrel Police) wrote:

Generally, perhaps, but not only.  Moral values can be based on
something other than belief in holy texts or divine beings.

Anyway, what is a "concrete" moral value?  As opposed to an
"abstract" one?

Who said "personal instincts"?  My morality comes from carefully
considered philosophy as well as personal instincts.

Again, disagree:  Both my parents are atheist as well.  I got my
morality -- which includes such ideas as compassion, kindness,
avoiding hurting people, telling the truth, standing up for the
oppressed and a lot of the other touchstones of religious morality --
from them.  Religion had nothing to do with it.

Do you really think that?  Compare the 1950s with the 1990s: equal
amounts of corruption, but in the 50s people hid under a veil of
religious hypocrisy.

There will always be immoral people.  If they're religious, they'll
use their religion as an excuse to do bad things.  If they're not
religious, they'll find some other reason, like politics.

When I think of a society based on religion, I think of the Taliban,
the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades.  I certainly don't believe
that religion is only capable of harm -- there are too many examples
of extraordinary and morally excellent religious people, like Martin
Luther King.  But I don't think founding a society on religion
inherently leads to moral behavior on the part of the people in it.
It simply allows people to justify their acts -- from giving to
charity to blowing up buildings -- with an "infallible" source of
moral proclamations.  Take that as good or bad -- I say it's both.


author: Rikard Stenberg

subject: 400 gallon tank

text:
Hi!

I have dreamed for many years of getting a _really huge_ fresh water
aquarium. I think the time has come to fulfil this plan!

I thinking of selling my two largest tanks and buying a 4 meter (app.
13 feet) long tank of around 2000 litre (app. 400 gallon). Does anyone
on the net have experience from such a venture?

Is there any alternative to a glass aquarium to make it cheaper, or
should I say less expensive :-)

Help and suggestions greatly appreciated!

/Rikard
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rikard Stenberg
Macintosh expert, consultancy and training
University of Lulee
SWEDEN, email: [email], fax: +46 920 91245
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


author: Howard Rebel

subject: Re: 400 gallon tank

text:
The last time I was in  Denver Colorado a fish store there was
building a tank of about that size to house a shark which had
outgrown the tank it was in.

The tank was constructed using 2x8 (I think) studs on about 10"
centers and lined with plywood.  There were two opening left in
walls for windows.

I will take a closer look next time I go to Denver.

[email] (Rikard Stenberg) writes:


author: joseph.j.de rosa

subject: Re: 400 gallon tank

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Howard Rebel) writes:

It's been a while since I wrote anything about a big tank, so I thought I'd
post this.

I built a few tanks from plywood and glass. My largest tank is 8'x4', and is
1.5' tall. It was originally set up as a South American freshwater tank
(with 25 angelfish, 12 Geophagus steindachneri(red-hump), 6 festivum and
a few dozen tetras), then it was changed into a breeding tank (for Ploypterus
ornatapinnis, lost my only male about 5 months ago), now the tank is between
set-ups. The tank took about 1 full day to build. It was not difficult.

I used 3/4" coated marine grade plywood (meduim density). This is a paper
coated plywood that is often used to make signs. It is not inexpensive, but
a tank made of it should last many years. I used a resourcinol glue to put the
sides together. The sides sit ON TOP of the bottom piece of plywood. I used
a single piece of glass (8'x1.5'), set in a plywood frame on the front of
the tank. I could have put mode than one piece of glass, but that made no
sense considereing the tank placement.

The tank is re-inforced across the top to prevent the sides/front/back from
exploding. This re-inforcement is made of 4" strips of the same plywood that
the sides and bottom are made from. The tank sits on a cinderblock stand.
24 cinder-blocks (8 columns, 3 cinder-blocks high) make up the stand. A
single piece of 1/4" plywood protects the bottom of the tank from scratches.
The tank was CAREFULLY leveled, and sits on a concrete slab in my basement.
It has been set up for about 4 or 5 years. 2 4' shop lights provide a timer
controled day of about 8 hours (I don't even attempt live plants other than
water sprite in such a ;arge tank).

I CAN supply some additional construction tips to anyone interested. I'm sure
that I posted something similar a year or so ago.

Joe DeRosa
[email]

PS. Thanks to all who  responded to my recent questions about identifying
the fisgies I bought. I'm pretty sure that they are green sword-noses, and
the catfish thingy is a Phractocephaus hemioliopterus. Anyone know what THAT
is, and how long will it fit in my 10 gallon tank??


author: Garry V Wiles

subject: Re: 400 gallon tank

text:
Here is Pittsburgh, one of the stores in our malls claims to
have a 1000 gal. aquarium.  Everytime I go the that particular mall, I
always stop just to look at the largest aquarium around just to see what
the potential size of the fish can be (gourmi [sp?] about 15+" long that
dwarf full size oscars!).  The only problem is that I _know_ I can build
one from just looking at it -- the biggest cost - the front glass
'window' (only side w/glass the rest look like wood), but I don't think
may parents would like me constucting a 'large' tank in the basement of
our house.
	If you have any particular questions, e-mail me and I'll be glad
to take a visit and ask direct questions on the tank's constuction.

		--Garry


author: Jim Hurley

subject: Re: 400 gallon tank

text:
In <[email]> [email] (joseph.j.de rosa) pulls another fast one:

[...]

-->PS. Thanks to all who  responded to my recent questions about identifying
-->the fishies I bought. I'm pretty sure that they are green sword-noses, and
-->the catfish thingy is a Phractocephaus hemioliopterus. Anyone know what THAT
-->is, and how long will it fit in my 10 gallon tank??

About a week. The adult reaches more than 3 feet and can weigh about 200
pounds.

Do you have the Latin for the green sword-noses? Make sure they aren't
Paulicea luetkeni which can get up to 300 pounds.


subject: Re: 400 gallon tank

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Jim Hurley) writes:

Oh, SURE Jim, RUIN my day! Well, I think I'l leave it in the 10 gallon tank
and see how it does MYSELF. I ASKED for information, not advice.

No, I was told that the sword-noses are  Xiphophorus helleri. I was told
(by the VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE pet shop worker) tha these two species required the
same conditions, and would do very well in the same tank. I trust this
person completely.

Joe DeRosa
[email]

PS. sometimes I wonder why I bother....


subject: Re: 400 gallon tank

text:
In <[email]> [email] (joseph.j.de rosa) writes:

-->>Do you have the Latin for the green sword-noses? Make sure they aren't
-->>Paulicea luetkeni which can get up to 300 pounds.

-->No, I was told that the sword-noses are  Xiphophorus helleri. I was told
-->(by the VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE pet shop worker) tha these two species required the
-->same conditions, and would do very well in the same tank. I trust this
-->person completely.

-->Joe DeRosa
-->[email]

-->PS. sometimes I wonder why I bother....

AH... the famous backwards-swimming swordtails.

I'm sure Oleg will want to buy the fry, he likes fish
that haven't been inbred to death.


author: Michael Anthony

subject: Challenge for Mr. Larson

text:
You asked for it, so why not go for something Lewis Carrolesque, and make
the first words of each line form their own sentence, or make the last word
of each line the same as the first word (optionally just sing the word once
just to hurt our brains a little more), or inject some other hidden code to
be discovered after your death (but you can tell *us*).

Michael Anthony
http://ma.fihs.net


author: Joe W Larson

subject: Re: Challenge for Mr. Larson

text:
First shot, no rewrites, did not do well in the non-verse parts.

----George versus Jonathan---
----copyright 2004 joseph larson----
john stepped out into the sun
and his eyes began to water
his trials only just begun
summer air keeps getting hotter

sandals flipping on the sand
flop about like beached whales
towards the surf like he planned
swimming out among the windsails

    george verses johnathan
    why must we float this way again?
    george verses johnathan
    why must we float this way again?

george woke up from his noon snooze
squinting out into the rough sea
ran back to the truck for booze
and then hopped upon his jet-ski

jumped a couple waves or more
into the little bay where many
the other swimmers, sailers, scores of
ocean fairing folks, there where plenty.

    george verses johnathan
    why must we float this way again?
    george verses johnathan
    why must we float this way again?

    and now there racing down down coast
    we're all booing them both
    george verses johnathan
    why must we float this way again?
    i don't know who to vote against
    i don't know who to vote against

----copyright 2004 joseph larson----

I probably won't do a recording of this, we'll see.  It is a good excercise
though!

joe w larson
http://www.soundclick.com/joewlarson

"Michael Anthony" <[email]> wrote in message
news:1n2Ec.11033$[email]...
word
once
to


subject: Re: Challenge for Mr. Larson

text:
Challenge accepted.  I may need a few days...

"Michael Anthony" <[email]> wrote in message
news:1n2Ec.11033$[email]...
word
once
to


subject: Re: Challenge for Mr. Larson

text:
"Joe W Larson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Brilliant. The last line gave away the fact that it's about the presidential
election.

" i don't know who to vote against" could be "Every way you look at it you
lose", if you know Mrs. Robinson.

That's classic Joe Larson. Irreverent, worded as if by a child yet making a
serious point. Hats off for managing to reduce such a fierce debate to the
level of mucking about in water.

Michael Anthony
My music @ http://ma.fihs.net


author: Professor Funk

subject: Tips on my forehand

text:
I've been playing ultimate about a year and I'm hoping for some tips
to improve my forehand.  For a while it was a stronger throw than my
backhand due to how much I worked on forehands; however after spending
very little time to improve my backhand GREATLY, I expect a lot more
out of my forehand given how much time I've put into it.

So I now turn to RSD for some advice.  My biggest problem is throwing
into the wind, it seems like even the slightest bit of wind completely
shuts down a throw I'd easily make in nearly windless situations.
Other possibly pertinent information: Towards the beginning of the
summer I switched to the power grip which has improved the peak
quality of my throws but also raised inconsistency.  Any questions,
comments or suggestions (what I'm really looking for)?


author: Harold Buck

subject: Re: Tips on my forehand

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Professor Funk) wrote:

You need to throw the disc so someone on your team can catch it cleanly.
Expecting them--or someone else--to tip the disc just so you can
complete more passes is too much to ask.

Remember that deliberate tipping to advance the disc is against the
rules.

I'd suggest you try to get better at throwing it instead of putting the
burden on your teammates.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
 and party every day.
 Then it was every other day. . . ."
      -Homer J. Simpson


author: Darryl Stanley

subject: Re: Tips on my forehand

text:
[email] (Professor Funk) wrote in
news:[email]:

I'm no master handler, but from what I've gathered through experience,
throwing into the wind is about two things: disc spin and disc angle.
First thing is to make sure that you are getting enough spin on the disc.
Throw the disc hard but under control focusing your emphasis on your
wrist snap. The power grip allows you to get the most spin on the disc do
to the fact that you can cock your wrist back further just before
release.

Disc angle is important to make sure that you put no angle on the disc
whatsoever. Throw it level and flat with no outside-in or inside-out
angle. Certainly don't try to throw a rising throw in the wind. Don't
throw the disc with leading edge tilting up at all. Also try keeping your
throws low, in order to lessen the effect of the wind underneath the
disc.

Just my two cents.

Darryl Stanley
Cheltenham Spirit Animals
Captain


author: Benjy

subject: Re: Tips on my forehand

text:
Here's my 2 cents...

HOLD IT TIGHTER!!!!!!!

"The power grip allows you to get the most spin on the disc do
to the fact that you can cock your wrist back further just before
release"

I don't totally agree with this...I find that in a lot of cases, a
hybrid grip, or even split grip can be better in the wind, at least
for shorter throws...I feel it allows for more concise throws.

about the angle...this, of course changes with the wind speed, and
direction, but look towards inside out to make it go farther in
wind...you naturally, GENERALLY, get more rotation on this throw.  do
your best to (Never) "show the bottom of the disc to the wind"  that
is to say, if the wind is going from right to left, and you are right
handed, try to not put any type of outside in on it cause it will go
nuts.  With a left to right wind you can generally afford a bit of
inside out, but be careful.

ANother really important thing is the release, and the "wind
up"...when you step out, make sure you really put your weight on your
stepping foot.  DON'T lean, move your whole body down towards the
ground like someone is pushing on your shoulders

try that stuff out and lemme know how it goes!


author: Garrett Dyer

subject: Re: Tips on my forehand

text:
On 13 Oct 2003 14:30:28 GMT, [email] (Gimpeltf) wrote:

Only by entitlists.


author: Rollers Loft+

subject: Driver side window glass

text:
Does any one have this problem my 99 vw jetta driver side windows
would go all they way down. It only get down to 1/3 and stuck. Since
the glass is moving I think motor is still good. There muct be some
thing which in the way that stopping to move down all they way. Any
input would be greatly appreciated


author: Woodchuck

subject: Re: Driver side window glass

text:
Old or new 99 jetta?

"Rollers Loft+" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Driver side window glass

text:
Replace window regulator!

"Rollers Loft+" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Driver side window glass

text:
Do you have any idea how much it will roughly cost if I let the dealer
do it. Is it some thing easily to replace like I can consider doing it
myself?

Thank you


subject: Re: Driver side window glass

text:
Somewhere between 1.5 & 2 hours labor. Anything more than 2hours the shops
getting greedy!

"Rollers Loft+" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Driver side window glass

text:
Update: Have windows regulator job done today.

Bought from ebay(Genune VW Part) $59.99 + Free Shipping  = $59.99
AutoGlass installed for me $100 + 6 tax                  = $106.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Cost                                               = $165.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The autoglass person did the job in 1 hour 20 minutes.

VW quote me 350 US dollars(Part and Labor), so I saved $185


author: Woody Sulloway

subject: Comments on Magellen GPS 15A and Jeppeson Software?

text:
Hi ,
would anybody care to comment of the pro's and con's of the GPS 15A with the
Jeppeson software, as a backup unit? What features does the software
display, airfields, navaids, SUA? Etc.

I'd like to get something similar to carry as a back up but not ready to go
to the $500.00 level yet.

Regards

Woody


author: guynoir

subject: Re: Comments on Magellen GPS 15A and Jeppeson Software?

text:
I don't believe the GPS 315A is available any more.

Woody Sulloway wrote:


author: Thomas Mosher

text:
Review of the Garmin 315A (I don't believe there is a 15A):
http://www.avweb.com/articles/gpsmg315.html
Straight 315 review:
http://www.gpsnuts.com/myGPS/GPS/Hardware%20reviews/Magellan%20315/magellan_
315_review.htm

"Woody Sulloway" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
the
go


author: John Morgan

subject: Re: Cheated by grids

text:
In message <[email]> you wrote:

Spot on, Colin!

Grid construction is rarely discussed here (where clues grab the
headlines), but is a vital element. The point you make was once
raised in an article in the New Scientist - by an engineer, no less,
some time in the '80s - but yielded no correspondence. In addition
to your point about "value for money", he also introduced the idea
of "connectivity" - the number of routes from one white square to
another, as well as reference to Ximenes' well-known dicta about
unches (unchecked letters). These three factors are major elements
in rating a grid's fairness.

The Guardian is by no means the only puzzle to use (what I would
term) sub-standard grids, though it does seem to use more than its
fair share of "decorated 13x13" (and 13x15 and 15x13) models.
By my calculation, there are currently 7 grids in regular use with
alternating black squares right round the periphery (including the
notorious "picture-frame" grid which wastes all four corners), 6
with alternating black squares along the top and bottom rows, and
5 with alternating blacks down the left and right edges. These
compare with 40+ "full value" diagrams, but (again by my
calculation) are used far more often. Certain setters (notably
RUFUS) have a particular affection for these abominations. (The
only situations where they are actually required are where the
perimeter spells out a message, as in ENIGMATIST's tour de force
a few years back in which he included his entire website address,
and for some Alphajigs.)

In addition to giving short weight, these puzzles a) increase the
unchecked-to-checked letter ratio, and b) lead to a lot of lights
_beginning_ with an unchecked letter - both factors make the
puzzle harder to solve and, dare I say it, easier to set.

The Times uses far fewer short-weight grids, but often uses grids
with consecutive unches, which also tilt the balance against the
solver.

Any mathematicians around to offer us a nice clean formula to
calculate a "fairness quotient" for grids?

mog


author: Colin Blackburn

subject: Re: Cheated by grids

text:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:56:13 +0100, John Morgan <[email]> wrote:

Yes, connectivity is an issue I think should be addressed by throwing a
few grids out of the set. The ones to which I allude are those where the
four corner 'blocks' are independent bar a couple of long lights
connecting them to them up to each other.

Colin


author: P & J Biddlecombe

subject: Re: Cheated by grids

text:
In article <[email]>, John Morgan
<[email]> writes

The Times always gives you at least 50% checked letters per word. Any
words with double unches must therefore either give you a double checked
letter or have the first and last letter checked, which should even
things up a bit. What really does the damage is the sheer unfamiliarity
of trying to match patterns like ?AE?A? or C??S?R (using a word which
has caught me out before).

Rather than use a formula, I'd say that a 15x15 grid is always
satisfactory if

* the number of answers is 30 or less
* you can't make the grid into a set of unconnected subgrids by blacking
out one square and its symmetrical buddies (preferably make this two
squares)
* it has the usual half-turn rotational symmetry
* there aren't any big black areas - clumps of more than 5 black squares

It is possible to have a fully "castellated" grids that counts as OK
under these rules, but it needs a lot of answers with an even number of
letters.

Peter B


author: Richard Sabey

subject: Re: Cheated by grids

text:
Colin Blackburn <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

like that used for Guardian 22700 (Rover) (dot=white, hash=black).

X........#......X
X.#.#.#.###.#.#.X
X........#......X
X.#.#.#.###.#.#.X
X........#......X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X#####..........X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X..........#####X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X......#........X
X.#.#.###.#.#.#.X
X......#........X
X.#.#.###.#.#.#.X
X......#........X

I agree. If you can't get a 10-letter light, you have to start the
block containing it from scratch.

Also bad are those where only 2 lights connect the two halves of the
grid, e.g. the grid used in Guardian 22689 (Araucaria):

X.......#.......X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X.....#.........X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X#..............X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X....###........X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X........###....X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X..............#X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X.........#.....X
X.#.#.#.#.#.#.#.X
X.......#.......X


author: Ronjumps

subject: Fatality in Puerto Rico????

text:
Heard there was an accident there....one person told me it was a friend of
mine.
Anyone have any info?
Thanks,
Ron Hill


subject: Re: Fatality in Puerto Rico????

text:
Thanks for the info people, I just got the word from his Mom.  He was not in
Puerto Rico,  he was at another DZ in the Dominican Republic.

Different accident. Same result.

Ron


author: JoeDeal

subject: Re: Fatality in Puerto Rico????

text:
Chris Wittgartner from X-Keys went in over the weekend.  There's a
thread on Dropzone.com about it.  Don't know the details.

[email] (Ronjumps) wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: Skwisgaar Skwigelf

subject: Re: Forza 2 Looks Like ASS

text:
"Vitamin R" <[email]> wrote in message
news:t8c1i.9148$[email]...

bilgemerk and its apes need a new BRAIN!


author: khee mao

subject: Re: Forza 2 Looks Like ASS

text:
"Skwisgaar Skwigelf" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Swishy Sashay needs new material.


author: Hank the Raper

subject: Re: Forza 2 Looks Like ASS

text:
"khee mao" <[email]> wrote in message
news:f2ihqg$jut$[email]...

dat XFLop 1.5 three-shitty foll sirkil fanfairee nedez 2 pla hiz PS3 mor


author: Amy or Brian

subject: Major League S.E.X

text:
Went to the LNS to get supplies for the "Tannenbaum" band sampler in the
November Stitcher's World, and left with over $80 worth of stash that I
really shouldn't have bought.  The Caron's threads that I didn't already
have cost a bundle, but the real cost was the new stuff. Ruth Sparrow has a
new design out called "Autumn Gingham" which is stitched on this cool new
gingham linen, so of course I had to buy the linen to go with it!  Also
found a few new needleroll charts to do, and some fall and Christmas
pieces.....and fabric on which to do them.  Like I didn't already have
enough projects up my sleeve.

-Amy


subject: Re: Major League S.E.X

text:
Sounds like fun, Amy!  What are the new needlerolls?  Still working on the
my genealogy sampler (5 months and counting!), so needlerolls are the only
"other" stuff I allow myself to stitch until the sampler is finished (since
they fit in my purse and the sampler doesn't!)

--Sali in PA

"Amy or Brian" <[email]> wrote in message
news:%WNn9.53478$xI5.10720@sccrnsc02...
a