text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote

-------------------------------------------------------------
  Gower:   "Post on the LAME feet of my rhyme"

Chapman:  "But how LAME & loathsome these prosers
  show in their affected expositions of the poetical mind."

DESDEMONA:   O most LAME and impotent conclusion!
-------------------------------------------------------------
 "And my talent which knows its strength & style
In this attempt becomes frozen and LAME." -Petrarch, sonnet 20
-------------------------------------------------------------
Digges' eulogy to Shakespeare:

 "You needy poetasters of this age
  Where Shakespeare lived or spake, vermin, forbear...
  Your LAME blank verse, to keep you from the grave"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Aubrey on Francis Bacon:

Anthony Bacon, a LAME man, lived with the Earle of Essex.
--------------------------------------------------------------
  _Mary Queen of Scotland and the Isles_ Margaret George
         Book Three (1568-1587) Chapter XXVII

The trial was to take place in a chamber directly above the Great
Hall. [Mary] found her legs to be unusually swollen and stiff
on this morning of all mornings, much to her embarrassment. That
meant she would have to lean on two people, using them as crutches
------------------------------------------------------------------
Freud  at the end of his essay Beyond the Pleasure Principle:

     Whither we cannot fly, we must go LIMPING.
     The Scripture sayeth that LIMPING is no sin.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
         Book Three (1568-1587) Chapter XXVIII

 Walsingham dragged his sore leg as he walked alongside Cecil, who was
also LIMPING, because of a riding injury. . . "My infirmity is caused by
a gall," said Cecil. "To think that in attempting to speed my journeys,
I have only succedded in laming myself." His right leg was splinted
and bandaged. "Mine is caused by Her Majesty's stubbornness," said
 Walsingham. "My stomach churns, my knee swells, my leg bleeds. . . "
------------------------------------------------------------------
Plutarch:   "It is a TRUE proverb, that if you live
              with a LAME man you will learn to HALT."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                       *E.O. HALT*
-----------------------------------------------------------------
HALT, a. [AS. healt; akin to OS., Dan., & Sw. HALT, Icel. HALTr,
    halltr, Goth. HALTs, OHG. halz.] HALTing in walking; LAME.

SONNET 89:   Speak of my LAMEness, and I straight will HALT. . .
-----------------------------------------------------------------
       _Venus & Adonis_ Dedication to Henry Wriothesley:

  "T I L L I H A V E H O N O U R E D Y O U W I T H S O M E G r"

                           [T]_ I_  L
                           [L]_ I _[H]
                           [A]  V- [E]
                           [H]  O  [N]
                           [O.]-U  [R]
                           [E.]_D  [Y]

                           [O]  U  [W.]
_                          [I] _T_ [H.]

                           [S.] O  [M]
                           [E.] G_ [r.]

                     THE RAPE OF LUCRECE

       The poor, LAME, blind, HALT, creep, cry out for thee;
          But they ne'er meet with Opportunity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
               THE TAMING OF THE SHREW ACT II SCENE I

PETRUCHIO   Why does the world report that Kate doth LIMP?
             O slanderous world! Kate like the HAZEL-twig
             Is straight and slender and as brown in hue
             As HAZEL nuts and sweeter than the kernels.
             O, let me see thee walk: thou dost not HALT.
  ------------------------------------------------------------------
           'THE KING WHO COULD NOT STOP THE SEA
        BUT STEMMED THE VIKING TIDE ON ENGLAND'S SHORES'
          http://viking.no/e/people/e-knud.htm
                                          by Barrie Markham Rhodes

Most people think of Canute in connection with the story about him
commanding the tide to HALT. But he should be remembered for more than
this. He was perhaps the first king to successfully rule over a truly
united realm of England, free from internal and external strife and
unrest. Canute had great respect for the old English laws,
  to which he brought a keen sense of justice and a regard
for individual rights. As part of his promotion of himself as an
'English' king, he did penance for the wrongdoings of his Viking
forefathers, building churches and making many generous gifts to others.
------------------------------------------------------------------
PSALM 38:16  Hear me, lest otherwise they should rejoice over me:
      when my foot slippeth, they magnify themselves against me.
  For I am ready to HALT, and my sorrow is continually before me.
----------------------------------------------------------
                  The Tempest  Act 1, Scene 2

TRINCULO    Were I in England now,
     as once I was, and had but this fish painted,
     not a holiday fool there but would give a piece
     of silver: there would this monster make a
     man; any strange beast there makes a man:
     when they will not give a doit to relieve a LAME beggar,
        they will lazy out ten to see a dead Indian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The end of BELLEROPHON's life was most tragic.  Two of his children,
Laodameia & Isandrus, were slain, the first by Artemis, and the second
by Ares. Finally, perhaps driven by the grief for his slain children,
BELLEROPHON mounted PEGASUS one last time. Perhaps to challenge Ares and
Artemis, perhaps to claim some perceived birthright or earned heroic
merit he intently drove straight toward the throne of Zeus: Mount
Olympus. Affronted by such conceit, Zeus formed the gadfly, Brize, and
sent it to sting PEGASUS under the tail, causing him to rear and sending
his rider tumbling to the earth. PEGASUS, however, completed the journey
to Olympus and was welcomed by all the gods. Some accounts say that
BELLEROPHON perished in the fall, while Homer tells us that
BELLEROPHON was left LAME and half blind instead.
 Odious to all Immortals, BELLEROPHON wandered the earth,
 his heart consumed with misery, alone, fleeing the haunts of men.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
                The Taming of the Shrew  Act 4, Scene 4

Pedant  Ay, what else? and but I be deceived
        Signior Baptista may remember me,
        Near twenty years ago, in Genoa,
        Where we were lodgers at the PEGASUS.
-------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/Pegasus.html

<<BELLEROPHON was raised as the Prince of Corinth.

Traditionally BELLEROPHON is regarded as a nickname or epithet,
since he earlier killed a tyrant (according to some versions,
his half brother) named Bellerus. His original name was Hipponous
meaning 'horse wisdom', while BELLEROPHON means 'slayer of BELLERUS'.

Being summoned to the palace of King Proetus of Tiryns,
BELLEROPHON was approached by the king's wife, Stheneboea.
When she failed to seduce him she tried to bring about his death.

Having been scorned she told her husband that BELLEROPHON
had attempted to seduce her. Proetus did not dare kill a man
who was a noted hero & a guest in his palace, instead,
 sent him to his father-in-law,
Iobates, King of Lycia, with a sealed message containing his death
sentence, saying " Pray remove the bearer from this word; he has
tried to violate my wife, your daughter". This is the origin of
the literary phrase "BELLEROPHONtic letters," which is used
to describe any communication designed to bring harm to
the unwitting bearer of the message.

    Iobates imposed several impossible tasks on BELLEROPHON,
trusting that he would perish in the attempt. The first task required
BELLEROPHON to slay the Chimaera. To accomplish this deed BELLEROPHON
sought the advice of the Argive seer, Polyeidus who told him:

 "to tame the winged steed, PEGASUS, and then, with the aid
    of Athena (Minerva) he would defeat the Chimaera."

Athena appeared to him in a dream and gave him a magic
golden bridle, Chalintis. He quickly left for Mt. HELICON,
to the fountain Peirene, sacred to the Muses & Aphrodite>>
------------------------------------------------------------------
    SPENSer dedication in Fairie Queene (1590)

   To the right Honourable the Earle of Oxenford,
     Lord high Chamberlayne of England. &c.

                  [VELLE = L., to WILL]
    *Vnder a shady VELE is therein writ* ,
     And eke thine owne long *liuing MEMORY* ,
     Succeeding them in TRUE nobility:

     And also for the loue, which thou doest beare
     To th'HELICONian ymps, and they to thee,
     They vnto thee, and thou to them most deare:
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/PEGASUS.html

<<BELLEROPHON easily bridled & mounted PEGASUS.
 Armed with the golden sword, Chrysoar, a gift
 from his father, Poseidon, they flew over the
  Chimaera and stuffed the beast's jaws with lead.

Iobates & Proetus were so impressed with BELLEROPHON's
relentless courage & selflessness that they ceased
  hostilities and Proetus gave his daughter,
 Philonoe, to be BELLEROPHON's wife.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Shak-speare, Oxford/Cecil, Lear & BELLEROPHON all had 3 children
--------------------------------------------------------
               M. William Shak-speare:

  HIS True Chronicle Historie of the life and
  death of King LEAR and his three Daughters.
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/Pegasus.html

<<Finally, perhaps driven by the grief for his slain children,
BELLEROPHON mounted PEGASUS one last time.
Perhaps to claim some perceived birthright or earned
heroic merit he intently drove straight toward the
throne of Zeus: Mount OLYMPUS. Affronted by such conceit,

Zeus formed the gadfly, BRIZE, and sent it to sting PEGASUS

 under the tail, causing him to rear and sending his rider
  tumbling to the earth. PEGASUS, however, completed the
   journey to Olympus and was welcomed by all the gods.

   Homer tells us that BELLEROPHON was left LAME
 & half blind. Odious to all Immortals, BELLEROPHON
 wandered the earth, his heart consumed with misery,
    alone, fleeing the haunts of men.>>

Genesis 4:12  a fugitive and a VAGABOND shalt thou be in the earth.
--------------------------------------------------------------
                        V E R O N I L V E R I U S
                        A---_______-L
                        G---_______-E
                        A---_______-N
                        B---_______-K
                        O---_______-C
                        N---_______-N
                       [D]--_______-I
_______-----------                  R
_______-----------                  B
_______-----------                  S
_______-----------                  A
_______-----------                  M
_______-----------                  O
_______-----------                  H
_______-----------                  T

                    "CLAMBRING TO HAN(G),
                  AN ENVIOUS SLIVER BROKE"
-------------------------------------------------------------
           King Henry IV, Part i  Act 4, Scene 1

VERNON                 All furnish'd, all in arms;
        All PLUMED like estridges that with the wind
        Baited like eagles having lately bathed;
        Glittering in golden coats, like images;
        As full of spirit as the month of May,
        And gorgeous as THE SUN AT MIDSUMMER;
        Wanton as youthful goats, wild as YOUNG BULLS.
        I saw young Harry, with his beaver on,

        His CUISSES on his THIGHS, gallantly arm'd
        Rise from the ground like FEATHER'd Mercury,

        And vaulted with such ease into his seat,
        As if an angel dropp'd down from the clouds,
        To turn and wind a fiery PEGASUS
        And witch the world with noble horsemanship.
--------------------------------------------------
      Wood's _Shakespeare_book (p.273)
        shows the 1608 _Lear_ title page

 with PEGASUS flying over a FLEDGEd spear.
----------------------------------------------------
Terry Ross site: http://shakespeareauthorship.com/wds1.html

     6-letter Rollett strings:

  FEEBLE: 0302u (Shakespeare Tailor)
  FLEDGE: 2705u (numerous)
  NAILES: 2106d (De Vere poem below)
------------------------------------------------------------
An Ancre's life to leade, with NAILES to scratche my grave,
Where earthly Wormes on me shall fede, is all the joyes I crave;
And hide my self from SHAME, sith that myne eyes doe see,
Ah, a alantida my deare dame, hath thus tormented me.

http://drk.sd23.bc.ca/DeVere/Oxford_Poems_and_Songs-18.pdf
http://www3.telus.net/oxford/oxfordspoems.html#3
-------------------------------------------------------------
Table of the Annotations in Edward de Vere's Geneva Bible

Book   |Chap|Verse|Verse Marks |     Markings in the Margin
-------|----|-----|------------|-----------------------------
Deut   | 15 | 1-4 |    N(R)    |
___    | 15 | 7-11|    N(R)    |
___    | 15 |12 __|    N(R)    | A(R) "Seruat<es>"
___    | 15 |13-14|    N(R)    |

2 Sam  |  4 | 9-10|    U(R)    |
_____  |  4 |11   |    U(R)    | M(R)
_____  |  5 | 4   |    U(R)    |

Jer    | 31 |34   |    U(R)    |

Heb    |  6 |10   |    N       |
___    | 12 |  __ |    __      | +
--------------------------------------------------------------
DEUT 15:21 But if there be any blemish therein, as if it be LAME, or
blind, or have any evil fault, thou shalt not offer it unto the Lord thy
God, But shalt eat it within thy gates: the unclean, and the clean shall
eat it alike, as the roebuck, and as the hart. Only thou shalt not eat
the blood thereof, but pour it upon the ground as water.

2 SAM 4:4 And Jonathan Saul's son had a son that was LAME on his feet:
he was five years old when the tidings came of Saul and Jonathan out of
Israel: then his nurse took him, and fled away. And as she made haste to
flee, the child fell, and began to HALT, and his name was Mephibosheth.

2 SAM 5:4 David was thirty years old when he began to reign: and he
reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years, and
six months: and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty and three years over all
Israel and Judah. The King also and his men went to Jerusalem unto the
Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land: who spake unto David, saying,
Except thou take away the blind and the LAME, thou shalt not come in
hither: thinking that David could not come thither. But David took the
fort of Zion: this is the city of David. Now David had said the same
day, Whosoever smiteth the Jebusites, and getteth up to the gutters
and smiteth the LAME and blind, which David's soul hateth,
I will prefer him: therefore they said, The blind and
 the LAME shall not come into that house.

HEBRE 12:12: Wherefore lift up your hands which hang down, and your
weak knees, And make straight steps unto your feet, lest that which is
HALTing, be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed. Follow
peace with all men, and holiness, without the which no man shall see ye
Lord. Take heed, that no man fall away from the grace of God: let no
root of bitterness spring up and trouble you, lest thereby many be
defiled. Let there be no fornicator, or profane person as Esau, which
for one portion of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that
afterward also when he would have inherited the blessing, he was
rejected: for he found no place to repentance, though he sought that
blessing with tears. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be
touched, nor unto burning fire, nor to blackness and darkness, and
tempest, Neither unto the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words,
which they that heard it, excused themselves, that the word should not
be spoken to them any more, (For they were not able to abide that which
was commanded, yea, though a beast touch the mountain, it shall be
stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight
which appeared, that Moses said, I fear and quake.) But ye are come
unto the mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the celestial
Jerusalem, and to ye company of innumerable Angels, And to the assembly
and congregation of the first born, which are written in heaven, and to
God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just and perfect men, And to
Jesus the Mediator of the new Testament, and to the blood of sprinkling
that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye despise not
him that speaketh: for if they escaped not which refused him, that spake
on earth: much more shall we not escape, if we turn away from him, that
speaketh from heaven. Whose voice then shook the earth and now hath
declared, saying, Yet once more will I shake, not the earth only, but
also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of
those things which are shaken, as of things which are made with hands,
that the things which are not shaken, may remain. Wherefore seeing we
receive a kingdom, which cannot be shaken, let us have grace whereby
we may so serve God, that we may please him with reverence
 and fear. For even our God is a consuming fire.
-----------------------------------------------------------
<<Hephaestus is the Craftsman of the Gods - God of fire and
 the forge, and is the patron God of all smiths & weavers.
 Hephaestus is the only God that is physically unattractive,
 in addition to which he is LAME due to a club foot.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------
     PtAH-SEKER [SHAKE(t)PER]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 Larousse's _Mythology_ : "Although PtAH was apt to be called
'fair of face' he is sometimes depicted as a deformed dwarf with
 twisted legs, hands on hips and a huge head, shaved except
 for the childish lock. He was early identified with
 the very ancient and obscure earth-god Tenen."
---------------------------------------------------------------
         Shakespeare, sonnet XXXVII.

   "So I, made LAME by fortune's dearest spite,"
-------------------------------------------------------------
          Fulke Greville, sonnet XXXV:

   "Alas, I cannot Sir; I am made LAME."
-------------------------------------------------------------
               Sidney, sonnet XXXV:

 [My] own writings like bad servants show
  My wits, quick in vain thoughts, in virtue LAME.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Celia:  "No, thy words are too precious to be cast away upon curs.
   Throw some of them at me. Come, LAME me with reasons."
--------------------------------------------------------------
1 [LEVIT 21 ]  And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
          Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their
          generations that hath any blemish, let him NOT approach to
          offer the bread of his God.
          For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not
          approach: a blind man, or a LAME, or he that hath a FLAT NOSE,
          or any thing superfluous,
          Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
          Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye,
          or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
          No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest
          shall come nigh to offer the offerings

8 [2 SAM 9 ] than hath yet a son, which is < LAME > on his ~ feet.
9 [2 SAM 9 ] So Mephibosheth dwelt in Jerusalem: for he did eat
      continually at the king's table; and was LAME on both his feet.
10 [2 SAM 19 ] king; because thy servant is < LAME > .
11 [JOB 29 ] blind, and feet was I to the < LAME > .
12 [PROVE 26 ] The legs of the < LAME > are not equal:
13 [ISAIA 33 ] the < LAME > take the prey.
14 [ISAIA 35 ]  Then shall the < LAME > man leap as an hart,
15 [JEREM 31 ] the blind and ~ the < LAME > ,
16 [MALAC 1 ] if ye offer the < LAME > and sick, is it not evil?
17 [MALAC 1 ] and the < LAME > , and the sick; thus ye brought an
18 [MATTH 11 ]  and the < LAME > walk, the lepers ~ are cleansed,
19 [MATTH 15 ] those ~ that were < LAME > , blind, dumb, maimed,
20 [MATTH 15 ] , the maimed to be whole, the < LAME > to walk,
    and the ~ blind to see:
21 [MATTH 21 ] the blind and the < LAME > came to him in the temple;
22 [LUKE 7 ] that the blind ~ see, the < LAME > walk, the lepers. . .
23 [LUKE 14 ] the poor, the maimed, the ~ < LAME > , the blind:
24 [ACTS 3 ] a certain man < LAME > from his mother's womb was carried,
25 [ACTS 3 ] And as the < LAME > man which was healed held Peter and
26 [ACTS 7 ]  and that were < LAME > , were healed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
<<`As good as gold,' said Bob [Cratchit],' and better. Somehow
 he gets thoughtful, sitting by himself so much, and thinks
 the STRANGEST things you EVER heard. He told me, coming home,
  that he hoped the people saw him in the church, because he
  was a cripple, and it might be pleasant to them to remember
upon Christmas Day, who made LAME beggars walk, and blind men see.'>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GENESIS 4:23  And LAMEcH said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah,
          Hear my voice; ye wives of LAMEcH, hearken unto my speech:
     for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly LAMEcH seventy & sevenfold.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


author: aleshake

subject: David Haeck

text:
I found an article from the eighties in which Bergsneider "proves" that
"Shakespeare" is written by David Haeck, his halfbrother. I don't want
to discuss this matter, but did anyone heard of this before? I cannot
find any other info on it.


subject: Re: Hacek job

text:
Art Neuendorffer <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

    You have no need of a hatcheck, Art.  On the other hand, a head
check would certainly not be amiss.
[...]


author: Art Neuendorffer

subject: Re: Hacek job

text:
nordicskiv2 wrote:
Always ready to bury the *HACEK* aren't you, Dave
(; provided it's in the back of an anti-Strat).
.
Art Neuendorffer


author: lyra

subject: Re: Hacek job

text:
Art Neuendorffer wrote:

  From familysearch,

Anna <Haeck>

Christening:

12 APR 1597    	Easington, Durham, England

Father: 	 Hans Haeck

 Mother:  	Judijck De Clerck

.......................................................................

Joane or Jone HOOKE or HACKE

	 	 Burial:  23 May 1619  	 	Place:   	Chalvington,,Sussex,England

	 	John Beniamin
	Marriage:  18 Jan 1584

...................................................................

doesn't solve the question, does it -

maybe if we had a copy of the article.

...............................................................


subject: Hacek job

text:
aleshake wrote:
.
----------------------------------------------------
____    *HAECK*
____    *HACEK*
.
<<A hacek or hï¿½c(ek ("?", pronounced "'hatchek"), also known as a caron,
is a diacritic placed over certain letters to indicate palatalization
in the orthography of some Slavonic languages, such as Czech,
and the Baltic languages. It looks like an inverted circumflex
(^) and its name means "little hook" in Czech.>>
.
Examples of letters with the hï¿½c(ek/caron:
.
C(/c(
S(/s(
Z(/z(
----------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
Make it "s(achovat" then:
.
<<Czech   s(achovat, s(ekem, ï¿½ï¿½et (account, bill, invoice, receipt,
tab), ovï¿½rit (attest, authenticate, certify, check up, prove),  kï¿½ro
(Square), kontrola (checkup, control, double check, examination,
going-over, inspection, restraint, supervision), kontrolovat (audit,
control, examine, handle, inspect, monitor, oversee, police, rein,
screen), kostka (bar, block, brick, cake, cobbles, cube, lump, tablet,
tessera), s(ach (shah), ovï¿½renï¿½ (verification), zkontrolovat (see),
presvï¿½dï¿½it se (make certain, make sure), prezkous(et (re-examine,
verify), revidovat (examine, reconsider, review, revise, rewrite),
revize (examination, review, revision), zadrz(et (force back, hold
back, keep, keep back, retain, stop, tie up, withhold), zarazit se
(break off, stumble), zastavit (arrest, call a halt, call off, cease,
discontinue, draw up, halt, hock, immobilize, pawn, pull back,
put in, quit, stay, stem, stop, suspend, tackle), omezenï¿½ (abatement,
circumscription, constriction, curb, cut, cutback, limit, limitation,
limitations, restraint, restriction, termination, trammels).>>
.
.
.
(Is SHAKHSpear SACHS' peer then?)
.
Art Neuendorffer
.
.
Art Neuendorffer


author: Chess One

subject: Re: Hacek job

text:
"lyra" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Art Neuendorffer wrote:

There are a dozen old meaning for HACK; including a Yorkshire one; to
imitate. HACKY [Northumb.] witty, artful. HAGH [A. Sax] a hedge, [and
Chaucer renders his hedge 'haie'] /Gy of Warwike. HAGHE [A. Sax]; fear,
tremor. HAKE, a book [var. dial.] HAKEL [clothing? dress?]: see~Brait.
BRAIT, a kind of garment [A. Sax] /MS Laud.

HE~ is a general A. Sax prefix, meaning 'high', and is often prefixed to
proper names 'emphatically' says Ritson, according to Saxon usage. Trywhitt
comments that country people reverse this usage and say, "Mr. Brown, he
said.".

Shak uses the formation in He~ad, 'to your head', meaning to your face,
still in use in north of England. Of course ancient formations on He~ and
Hu~ are similarly pronounced, one indicating a sacred name.

Common words of similar sound often indicate an axe, from which verbs and
adjectives emerge. Prefixes using Hy~ formations usually mean 'high' from
[A. Sax] roots: HY, (1) upon hy //MS Cantab. (2) she, they, also as 'hie'.
HYELEY: proudly. HYIE: high /Degrevant 840. HYL; a heap /Havelok 892

though HYGHINGLI in A. Sax means speedy, hastily, 'Yn hyghynge' /Ermarï¿½, 511

Of course HAGHE [A. Sax]; fear, tremor, is not a million miles from Shake,
and even closer to Shag~he.

    Phil

  From familysearch,

Anna <Haeck>

Christening:

12 APR 1597    Easington, Durham, England

Father: Hans Haeck

 Mother:  Judijck De Clerck

.......................................................................

Joane or Jone HOOKE or HACKE

Burial:  23 May 1619  Place:   Chalvington,,Sussex,England

John Beniamin
Marriage:  18 Jan 1584

...................................................................

doesn't solve the question, does it -

maybe if we had a copy of the article.

...............................................................


subject: Re: Hacek job

text:
lyra wrote:
Shakespeare was a HACKNEY writer not a HACKE writer.
.
Art Neuendorffer


author: Jorn Barger

subject: Re: New 'Battle of Troy' sparked by archaeologists

text:
On soc.history.ancient, Jenn wrote:
  &m=A24&aa=1&eidos=S

Very _frothy_ article (little new info).

But is Homer's ten-year-siege claim really considered plausible by
anyone?

It always seemed like a transparent literary device to me-- feeding the
siege-ers would be a logistic nightmare, and their homes were only a few
days' sail away anyway...


author: Chris Camfield

text:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:39:58 -0500, [email] (Jorn Barger)
wrote:

I can't seem to load the article, but...

I don't think one has to believe in the literal truth of *everything*
in the Iliad in order to make the connection between Hissarlik and
Troy.

The Iliad portrays the Greeks as having raided a lot of nearby cities
(Achilles mentions this when he complains how ungrateful Agamemnon
is), but yes, true.

	Chris


author: Neville Lindsay

text:
"Jorn Barger" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

The Iliad really is about a few weeks in the 10th year, when the Achaeans
landed and established a fortified camp. We know little other than that the
epic mentions ravaging other areas.

Well, Thucydides opined that the bulk of them went farming on Gallipoli to
support them. The general opinion is that what has been recorded was a
series of pirate raids along the Anatolian coast. From there the hypotheses
range far and wide, however the Romans thought they knew where Ilion was. As
I recall, Alexander's armamnts were on display there too until the 6th
Century CE when Belisarius is alleged to have 'borrowed' them for his
campaign to retake Africa from the Vandals.

NL


text:
Is Hurricane Isabel preventing Art posting???

I hope Isabel isn't affecting power supplies
to Art...

curiously, the website I visited today
mentions a hurricane...

(quote)

Public Role

(Equivalents of "William Shakespeare")

Words that embody things that may be a part of you are "Artist,
Gladiator, Head, Justice, Priest, Retreat, Tornado, Truth".

Words that embody the causes of your circumstances are "Cage".

Words that embody people or things in your periphery are "Addiction,
Factory, Flower, Hurricane, Kitten, Lingerie, Massacre, Mother,
Murder, Paradox, Pleasure, Predator, Serpent, Story, Sword, Vanguard,
Vision, Volume, Weakness, Window".

(unquote)


author: Greg Reynolds

subject: Re: Is Hurricane Isabel preventing Art posting???

text:
lyra wrote:

  "Yes, truly; I speak not as desiring more;
    But rather wishing a more strict restraint...

    ...I'll send him certain word of my success."
        Isabel
        MfM  Act I, scene IV

  "My power? Alas, I doubt ...
    I'll see what I can do."
      Isabel
      MfM  Act I, scene IV

   "Make me not your story."
        Isabel
        MfM  Act I, scene IV

  "Let me ask, the rather for I now
    must make you know I am that Isabel"
        Isabel
        MfM  Act I, scene IV

  "Adoptedly; as school-maids change their names"
        Isabel
        MfM  Act I, scene IV

  "Woe me! for what?"
        Isabel
        MfM  Act I, scene IV

  "You do blaspheme the good in mocking me."
        Isabel
        MfM  Act I, scene IV


text:
"lyra" <[email]> wrote:

     Yes. And thanks for your concern, Lyra.

-----------------------------------------------------
            Henry VI's mother-in-law:
                ISABEL of Lorraine
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.mallet-argent.com/rene.html

<<King Rene' of Anjou played a most impressive part in the stormy, history,
of fifteenth-century, France and Italy. He was the son and third child of
Duke Louis II of Anjou and Yolande of Aragon, born on January 16, 1409, in
their castle at Angers in the Maine-and-Loire region of western France. A
brother, Louis, had been born in 1403, and his sister Maria (who was to
marry Charles VI of France), in 1404. Rene' grew up in Anjou and in
Provence, another of his father's domains. In 1419 the ten-year-old was
married to ISABEL of Lorraine, who was only nine. Such youthful dynastic
marriages were frequently resorted to in those days, as effective weapons in
the constant struggles for power (whether on the level of diplomatic
accommodation or ruthless warfare) in the course of which today's allies all
too frequently became tomorrow's bloodthirsty enemies.

Duke Charles of Lorraine, Rene' father-in-law, was at war with King Charles
VN of France who was also involved in the Hundred-Years War with England.
England's ally in this war was the powerful Duke of Burgundy, Philip the
Good. Rene', when old enough to bear arms, joined the forces-including Joan
of Arc who were fighting for the King of France. When his father-in-law died
in 1431 Rene' inherited the Duchy of Lorraine. But a nephew of the deceased
Duke also laid claim to this inheritance, with armed assistance from the
Duke of Burgundy. That same year the contending parties met in battle at
Buligne'ville, where Rene' was defeated and captured. Duke Philip of
Burgundy asserted His right to the valuable prisoner and took Rene' to his f
ortress at Dijon.

During Rene's imprisonment his young wife ISABEL proved to be a most
skillful advocate on his behalf. She even succeeded in obtaining Rene's
temporary release from his dungeon, on his word of honor to return at the
stipulated time (which he doubly guarantied by leaving his two young
children behind as Hostages ni Dijon). Rene' remained at liberty for three
years but returned to the Dijon fortress in 1435, to wait there for another
year before the Duke of Burgundy - finally gave him his freedom in return
for a substantial ransom.

Rene's interest in painting seems to date from the time of his incarceration
at Dijon, where, it is said, he occupied himself with painting on glass and
decorated one of the rooms in the castle. None of this work has survived,
but there is a prayerbook of Rene's from this period with a number of
illuminations that already show some characteristics of his later style.
There is also a legend to the effect that, at Dijon, Rene' met the Dutch
painter Jan van Eyck and became his pupil. Since van Eyck was employed in
the service of the Duke of Burgundy at the time, this is a possibility. It
may be a point where fairy tale and reality converge.

But reality now took a firm grip on Rene'. His elder brother Louis had died
in 1434, so that Rene' now became the Duke of Anjou. In addition to the
Duchy, his brother had bequeathed him a royal crown, for Queen Joan of
Naples and Sicily had made Louis of Anjou her Co-Regent and heir and, after
Louis's death, named Rene' as his brother's heir. In I435 Joan died while
Rene' was still imprisoned at Dijon. His wife ISABEL must be credited not
only with safeguarding his rights to Lorraine, Anjou, and Provence, but also
with actively representing his claim to Naples and Sicily against Alfonso of
Aragon's counterclaim. It finally became necessary for Rene' to betake
himself to his new kingdom in person. In the spring of 1438 he journeyed
from Marseilles to Genoa, an ally, and thence to Naples where he was
joyfully received.

There followed four years of changing fortunes. His peaceful reign in Naples
was constantly interrupted by battles with Alfonso, fought at various points
in southern Italy. In the summer Of 1442, Rene' was forced to abandon
Naples. For a time he sojourned in Florence and northern Italy, but in the
fall of that year he returned to Provence. Thereafter, he was King of Sicily
in name only.

He was now all the more able to devote himself successfully to ruling his
French territories and, with these as his base, participate in the
Renaissance game of high politics. His oldest son, John of Calabria, would
continue to fight for the South-Italian kingdom; his daughter Marguerite
married King Henry VI of England in 1445; his younger daughter Yolande and
her husband had been given the Duchy of Lorraine. Rene's relations with his
brother-in-law, Charles XN, were so harmonious that the French king even
found his legendary love, Agnes Sorel, at Rene's court-she was one of ISABEL
of Anjou's ladies.

Those years of nearly unbroken peace from 1442 to 1453 presented, at last,
an opportunity for the unfolding of the rituals of a princely household.
Court was held at Rene's and ISABEL's castles throughout Anjou and Provence,
many of which had been newly restored and refurbished. Saumur on the Loire,
cited in Rene's principal work as the very model of a fine castle, became
the family's favorite residence. It is during this peaceful decade that
reality and fairy tale become difficult to separate: the wise administration
of Rene's domains is historical fact, while the romantic surroundings Rene'
created for his court have the aura of a fairy tale. It was the world of
such knightly romances as the legends of the Holy Grail, of King Arthur's
Round Table, of Tristan and Iseult, of the nine heroic knights. It was with
such characters as these that the knights of the fifteenth century
identified, and their world revolved around such concepts as might be found
in the witty allegories of the Romance of the Rose, their classic love
breviary. In addition to the usual festive gatherings at the various castles
and the great mystery plays to which the public was welcome, the crowning
occasions of knightly activity in peacetime were, of course, the great
tourneys. Rene' was tire less in arranging for these scenes of knightly
combat, some of which (as with the great tourneys at Nancy, and Tarascon)
enjoyed such fame that they were immortalized by the poets. He was
fascinated with the cult of chivalry. Rene' held countless fanciful and
allegorical tournaments and founded the Order of the Crescent.

He is, arguably, most well known for authoring two illuminated books; Le
Cueur d'Amours Espris (The Book of the Heart Possessed by Love) and the
Livre des Tournies (The Manual for the Perfect Organization of Tourneys).
The first is an allegory in which the heart is represented by a knight named
Cueur, who pursues his love, Sweet Grace. The second is an idealized version
of a Pas d'Armes, an actual handbook, and indeed no one was a
better-qualified author. It was prepared during the late 1440s, about the
time Rene's great tourneys were actually held. When it was reported to Rene'
that a noble lord of high degree had expressed himself disparagingly about
the Duke of Anjou's new literary activity, saving: "It ill befits a prince
to descend to such scribbler's work," Rene's comment was: "Such words might
come more fittingly from a bellowing bull than a noble prince."

The Livre des Tournies includes information on everything from how to make a
challenge (by offering a rebated sword to the appellant team and having your
herald recite a peace-loving ritualized challenge while wearing a cloak of
golden cloth), to how to display banners (all fighters must have banners
displayed out the windows of the tavern in which they are staying). This
treatise outlines a tournament in which the fighters are vying to prove
their prowess, grace, chivalry, respect for ladies and pageantry

In all his undertakings, whether they concerned the sober administration of
government business or the festive life of a knightly dream world, ISABEL
was Rene's helpmate. When death took his wife from him in 1453, he was
inconsolable. His deep mourning for her may have played a part in his
letting himself be persuaded to go to war in Italy once more, on behalf of
his old claim to the throne of Naples and Sicily. Florence and Milan,
fighting against Alfonso of Aragon (then ruling Naples), called upon the
King of France for aid; he sent them Duke Rene' in his stead. In midsummer
of 1453 Rene' went to Italy, but he returned to France in February 1454
though the Italian campaign had not vet been decided one way or the other.

For Rene, the time of battles and political ambitions was now over. His
second wife, whom he married in September 1454 in Angers, ,was Jeanne of
Laval, the daughter of a Breton nobleman. She was twenty-four years younger
than Rene', who was just forty-five. Again, that fairy-tale element in the
story: the King secluded -with his young wife in the quiet castle, writing
and illustrating his books. For Rene' actually stayed at Angers and at
Saumur, where his literary works came into being, almost uninterruptedly
until 1471. Then he moved to Provence, taking his entire, carefully
inventoried library with him. He died at Aix-la-Chappelle on July 10, 1480.

Rene' had provided for a fitting tombstone at the Church of Saint Maurice in
Angers during his lifetime. Above the marble tomb was affixed one of his own
large paintings, showing a dying king on a throne. The figure, holding
scepter and orb, is halfway to being a skeleton already, his crown
threatening to slip off the head leaning to one side. This memorial was
destroyed during the French revolution. But the memory of Good King Rene' is
preserved in history and literature, not least by his own works.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                 WIZARD O(XF)ORD VIVERE LIVE
                 DRAZIW L(CU)LIW .EREVIV EVIL

 Core, n. [OF. cor, coer, CUER, F. c[oe]ur, fr. L. cor heart.]
The heart or inner part of a thing, as of a column, wall, rope,
 of a boil, etc.; especially, the central part of fruit, containing
 the kernels or seeds; as, the core of an apple or quince.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The heart, represented in the dream as a knight in full armor named Cueur
( or CUER) , accompanied by his PAGE, Desire, Sets off on a perilous journey
of courtship to liberate Sweet Grace ( Dame Doulce-Mercy ) who is being held
in captivity by three enemies of Love: Denial ( Reffus ), Shame ( Honte )
and Fear ( Crainte ).>>

                  Rene's masterpiece

    _Le Livre du CUeur d'Amours Espris_ (1457)
         http://www.guice.org/bklvntr2.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


text:
"Greg Reynolds" <[email]> wrote

--------------------------------------------------
       All's Well That Ends Well
             Act 1, Scene 3

  Clown:  No maddam,
'Tis not so well that I am poore, though manie
of the rich are damn'd, but if I may haue your Ladiships
good will to goe to the world, Isbell the woman and
will doe as we may.
--------------------------------------------------
Art N.


subject: NELL is given for Margaret of Anjou apparently by mistake

text:
------------------------------------------------------
     "of WITTE and wiliness she lacked nothing"
                  "more like to a man"
------------------------------------------------------
                    _Who's Who in Shakespeare_

<<Shakespeare is generally held not to be responsible for  the dramatic, and
largely unhistorical, character of Margaret of Anjou in 1, 2, 3 Hen. VI. For
the (fictitious) narrative of her intrigue with Suffolk (see William de la
Pole).

     Acc. the chroniclers, Margaret 'excelled all other, as well in beautie
and favour as in wit and policie; aand was of stomach and courage more like
to a man than a woman'; she was 'desirous of glory and covetous of honour...
of witte and wiliness she lacked nothing.' yet 'often tme, when she was
vehement and fully bent in a matter, she was sodainly lyke a wethercocke,
mutable, and turning' (Hall, p. 207; Hol iii, 625).

   In iii, 2, 1. 26, 'NELL' is given for 'Margaret,' apparently by mistake
so also is 'Elianor' or 'Elinor' .

  In Richard III Margaret must be regarded as a fictitious character, since
she never returned to England after 1475, and died in 1482 before the actual
date of iv, 4. God's 'judgement is embodeied in the fearful Margaret and her
curses, in which the avenging spirit utters it terrible decree. With
striking glaringness, distinctness, and intensity, Sh. has pronounced,
repeated, and accomplished these imprecations.' (Bervinus, Sh. Comm.
(1875).>>
------------------------------------------------------
                "WITTY above her sexe"
---------------------------------------------------------------
 HEERE  LYETH  YE  BODY  OF  SVSANNA

 WIFE  TO  IOHN  HALL,  GENT :  YE  DAUGH
 TER  OF  WILLIAM  SHAKESPEARE.  GENT :

 SHEE  DECEASED  YE  ijth  OF  IVLY.
   An 1649.   AGED  66.

 "Witty above her sexe, but  that's not all.
 Wise to salvation was good Mistris Hall,
 Something of Shakespeare was in that, but this
 Wholy of him with whom she's now in blisse.
 Then Passenger, hast nere(?) a teare
    To weepe with her that wrp(?); with all;
 That wept yet set her self to chere
    Them up with comforts condiall(?)
 Her love shall live, her mercy spread,
 When thou has nere a teare to shed.
----------------------------------------------------------
          Romeo and Juliet  Act 1, Scene 5

First Servant:  Away with the joint-stools, remove the
        court-CUPBOARD, look to the plate. Good thou, save
        me a piece of marchpane; and, as thou lovest me,
         let the PORTER let in SUSAN GRINDSTONE and NELL..

           HENRY PORTER  disappears on St. AUGUSTINE's day May 26, 1599
---------------------------------------------------------------
       the SUSAN CONSTANT:

           SUSAN   Vere       born  on St. AUGUSTINE's day May 26, 1587
     Witty SUSANna Shak. was 'born' on St. AUGUSTINE's day May 26, 1583
--------------------------------------------------------
<<Matters concerning censorship and the Earl of Essex arose in the
Spring of 1599 which tend to suggest that Chorus' verses were composed
early that year, and push the playing-dates of Henry V into the first
weeks of April-May. In February 1599, Dr. John Hayward published an
account of the reign of Henry IV. (8) The book was dedicated to Essex.
Its introduction implied that this history might provide a pattern "both
for private directions and the affayres of state" (A3r). (9) The Queen
and her advisors imagined Hayward's description of the deposition of
Richard II-coupled with his lavish praise of Essex-as a thinly veiled
threat to the crown. Perhaps as a response, the notorious Order of the
Bishops (March 1599) included an injunction that "noe English historyes
be printed excepte they bee allowed by some of her maiesties privie
Counsell" (Patterson 129). When Hayward attempted to publish a second
edition of his book in April all 1500 copies were seized and burnt.

On July 11, 1599 Hayward was interrogated before the Privy Council.

 The vitriolic Queen
 "argued that Hayward was pretending to be the author in order to
shield 'some more mischievous' person, and that he should be racked so
that he might disclose the truth" (DNB on CB-ROM). Hayward avoided
execution only through the intercession of Bacon (Dutton 121), and
remained imprisoned until after Essex's execution in 1601. (10) Given
the Hayward incident in February-March 1599, and the dismal news
arriving from Ireland by June, it seems inconceivable that the
Chamberlain's Men would have opened the Globe with a play containing
(dangerous) verses comparing Essex to Henry V.
--------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.ntin.net/McDaniel/0711.htm

July 11, 1274,  Robert the Bruce born.

July 11, 1533,  King Henry VIII excommunicated by Clement VII.
          +25
---------------
July 11, 1558,  Robert Greene born in Norwich.  He made the first
   in-print reference to Shakespeare in his Groat's-Worth of Wit.

July 11, 1599,  John Hayward interrogated by the Privy Council
          +50
---------------
July 11, 1649,  John Hall's wife SVSANNA dies.

July 11, 1754,  Stratfordian Thomas Bowdler born.
          +50
---------------
July 11, 1804,  Vice-President Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton in a
duel on the Palisades of New Jersey. Hamilton had been so vituperative
in his attacks on Burr's character and ambitions that Burr made the
challenge.  Hamilton called Burr too irresponsible and dangerous for the
governorship of New York, a post Burr was seeking. Hamilton was fatally
wounded in the liver. Burr's career was ended from the subsequent ill
will toward him.
----------------------------------------------------
 February 2, 1650, Charles II's mistress NELL Gwin born
 February 2, 1685, Charles II said "Let not poor Nellie starve" & died.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
     The Mistresses of Charles II  by Brenda Ralph Lewis
      http://www.britannia.com/history/charmist.html

<<NELL herself was the target of some opposition from another
of the royal mistresses, the high & mighty Louise de Keroualle who
berated Charles for taking up with this coarse, common 'ORANGE wench'.
NELL's name for Louise who had a slight cast in on eye: Squintabella.
  Another name Nell gave her was 'WEEPING WILLOW', since
 Louise would use tears to prise some gift or favour from the King.
   Both nicknames infuriated Louise, but amused Charles.
--------------------------------------------------------------
             a FLOURISHING WILLOW

             http://www.guice.org/bklvf-21.html

<<The combat is now over and the Black Knight rides off. ~~ Dame Melancholy
is gone ~ in her place there is another lady, Hope ( Esperance ). It is she
who pulls Cueur from the muddy stream, his horse having already scrambled
out. In the stream float broken pieces of Sorrows Lance, but Cueur's lance ,
too, has fallen
into the water. Cueur has tied his shield to his back and is supporting
himself on the riverbank with his left arm. Hope is holding her left arm out
for balance as she tugs at Cueur's wrist. Desire bows to her in mute homage,
but from the text we learn that he also lends her a hand in her rescue work.
The scene is the same as in the previous illustration, though it has shifted
a bit, with the bridge and the hills and trees behind it further off to the
left. This brings more of the stream into the picture, with the new trees
visible, among them a FLOURISHING WILLOW. The figure of Hope can be seen
only from the back, but her violet-blue gown with its graceful folds, her
abundant golden hair and crown bring fresh color into the picture, just as
her appearance gives the story a new impetus.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
<<Built of BRICK trimmed with STONE Theobalds (pronounced Tibbals)
   was approached by a mile-long avenue of CEDARS. While nothing
   remains of it today but a few stones, full plans survive.>>

                         CO-RA-MB-IS

                          B R I C (k)
                          M A S O (n)

                          BRICK MASON
                      (th)OMAS BRINCK(nell)
---------------------------------------------------------------
        Old CURIOSITY Shop by Charles Dickens

Little NELL stood timidly by, with her eyes raised to the countenance
of Mr Quilp as he read the letter, plainly showing by her looks that
 while she entertained some fear and distrust of the little man,
    she was much inclined to laugh at his
   uncouth appearance and GROTEsque attitude.

  The little door out of which [Daniel Quilp]
  had thrust his head was close to the inn larder;
 and there he stood, bowing with GROTEsque politeness;
 as much at his ease as if the door were that of his own house;
blighting all the legs of mutton and cold roast fowls by his close
 companionship, and looking like the EVIL genius of the cellars
   come from UNDERGROUND upon some work of mischief.

  Mr Brass, on recognising him, immediately stopped
  the coach. As it came to a HALT directly opposite
 to where he stood, the dwarf pulled off his hat, and
saluted the party with a hideous and GROTEsque politeness.

  'AHA!' he cried. 'Where now, Brass? where now?
 Sally with you too? Sweet Sally! And Dick? Pleasant Dick!

     And KIT! Honest KIT!
----------------------------------------------------------------
        King Henry VI, Part ii  Act 2, Scene 4

(quarto) Humphrey. My louely NELL, what wouldst thou haue me do?
       Should I attempt to rescue thee from hence,
       I should incurre the danger of the law,
       And thy disgrace would not be shadowed so.

    Elnor. Be thou milde, and stir not at my disgrace,
      Vntill the axe of death hang ouer thy head,
      As shortly sure it will. For Suffolke he,
      The new made Duke, that may *DO ALL in ALL*
      With her that loues him so, and HATE(S VS) ALL,
      And impious Yorke and Bewford that false Priest.
      Haue all lymde bushes to betraie thy wings,
      And flie thou how thou can they will intangle thee.

(folio) Glost. Be patient, gentle Nell, forget this griefe.

       Elianor. Ah Gloster, teach me to forget my selfe:
     For whilest I thinke I am thy married Wife,
     And thou a Prince, Protector of this Land;
     Me thinkes I should not thus be led along,
     Mayl'd vp in shame, with Papers on my back,
     And follow'd with a Rabble, that reioyce
     To see my teares, and heare my deepe-set groanes.
     The ruthlesse Flint doth cut my tender feet,
     And when I start, the enuious people laugh,
     And bid me be aduised how I treade.
     Ah Humfrey, can I beare this shamefull yoake?
     Trowest thou, that ere Ile looke vpon the World,
     Or count them happy, that enioyes the Sunne?
     No: Darke shall be my Light, and Night my Day.
     To thinke vpon my Pompe, shall be my Hell.
     Sometime Ile say, I am Duke Humfreyes Wife,
     And he a Prince, and Ruler of the Land:
     Yet so he rul'd, and such a Prince he was,
     As he stood by, whilest I, his forlorne Duchesse,
     Was made a wonder, and a pointing stock
     To euery idle Rascall follower.
     But be thou milde, and blush not at my shame,
     Nor stirre at nothing, till the Axe of Death
     Hang ouer thee, as sure it shortly will.
     For Suffolke, he that can *DOE ALL in ALL*
     With her, that HATEth thee and HATE(S VS) ALL,
     And Yorke, and impious Beauford, that false Priest,
     Haue all lym'd Bushes to betray thy Wings,
     And flye thou how thou canst, they'le tangle thee.
     But feare not thou, vntill thy foot be snar'd,
     Nor neuer seeke preuention of thy foes.
--------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


author: Michael A. Covington

subject: Teaching aid -- Greek alphabet, how to form the characters

text:
At http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/pens#greek is a teaching aid I
finally got around to making today, after nearly 30 years of thinking about
it...

It's a chart showing how to handwrite the Greek letters neatly, indicating
which way to move the pen.  It's probably going to be of some use both to
classicists and to mathematicians, hence the odd cross-posting.

Enjoy!


author: Doug Magnoli

subject: Re: Teaching aid -- Greek alphabet, how to form the characters

text:
Budding mathematicians will probably find this very useful, since no one ever
teaches how to write Greek letters, but classicists generally learn this when
they first start studying Greek.  I did--and I learned to form small delta and
small rho opposite from you--starting where you end.

I've seen first-year calculus students confuse xi with zeta and psi with phi
because to them they look the same.  It's just lack of training.

Nice job.

-Doug Magnoli

"Michael A. Covington" wrote:


text:
ever
when
and

Good... Only having ever taken intro Greek once, I wasn't sure how widely
things like this were taught...

phi

Yes...  And the null set symbol is not phi, neither upper- nor lowercase...

Glad you liked it!


subject: 3-4-5  Pythagorean Triangles

text:
(3 x 3) x 33 meters = 297 meters
-------------------------------
38.89745,-77.06397 : Teddy Roosevelt Memorial (0,-8) x 297 meters
http://tinyurl.com/66yzna
38.807334,-77.06397 :   GW Temple  10 km. due South.
http://tinyurl.com/5e43hl
-------------------------------
38.889435, -77.00919 : Capitol  (-3,8) x 297 meters
38.889435, -77.0023425 : Folger  (-3,10) x 297 meters
http://tinyurl.com/5k3yw3
-------------------------------
3-4-5  Pythagorean Triangles
-------------------------------
38.89745,-77.06397 : Teddy Roosevelt Memorial (0,-8) x 297 meters
38.91348, -77.03658 : House of the Temple  (6,0) x 297 meters
38.89745,-77.03658 : White House (0,0) x 297 meters
-------------------------------
38.89745,-77.06397 : Teddy Roosevelt Memorial (0,-8) x 297 meters
38.889435, -77.050275 : Lincoln Memorial  (-3,-4) x 297 meters
38.881420,-77.03658 : Jefferson Memorial  (-6,0) x 297 meters
38.889435, -77.03658 : GW Monument  (-3,0) x 297 meters
38.89745,-77.03658 : White House (0,0) x 297 meters
-------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: 3-4-5 Pythagorean Triangles

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 Art Neuendorffer <[email]>

([email]) wrote:

   Was this supposed to have anything to do with Shakespeare, Art?

   Pythagorean triples (triples (x,y,z) of positive integers such that
x^2+y^2=z^2) are well understood, Art -- not by you, I realize, but
they are well understood nonetheless.  However, there are no known
examples of "hyper-Pythagorean triples," triples (x,y,z) of positive
integers such that x^n+y^n=z^n for some integer n>2.  Here's a project
for you, Art, that it bound to be more fruitful than your authorship
obsession: find such a hyper-Pythagorean triple.  I suggest that you
refrain from posting while you're working on it, so that you can
concentrate better; when you succeed in finding one, you can return to
h.l.a.s. to tell us all about it.  You might want to email
[email] with the news as well.


subject: Re: 3-4-5 Pythagorean Triangles

text:
.
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------
1742 Alexander Pope: THE DUNCIAD: BOOK IV
.
"Who study Shakespeare at the Inns of Court,
Impale a glow-WORM, or VERtú profess,
SHINE in the dignity of F. R. S.,
[S]ome, DEEP Free-Masons, join the silent race,
[W]orthy to fill PYTHAGORAS's place"
--------------------------------------------------------
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

That particular problem may take a Wiles, Dave.

I can, however, prove the impossibility of
n^x+n^y=n^z for some integer n>2 if you like.

Art Neuendorffer
...................................................................
"I'm being toyed with by a bunch of depraved children."

"I'm pulling back the curtain. I want to meet the wizard."


author: lackpurity

subject: Re: 3-4-5 Pythagorean Triangles

text:
On Apr 12, 11:46�am, Art Neuendorffer
<[email]> wrote:

MM:
Pythagoras was mentioned by Shakespeare, regarding the reincarnation
of a man in a wolf's body.  Pythagoras knew the truth about
reincarnation.  His Pythagorean 3-4-5 triangles are another ball game,
however, known as mathematics.

I noticed you reposted the dedication by Spencer, regarding Edward de
Vere and the Heliconian Imps.  Sorry, that doesn't prove that Edward
de Vere wrote the canon.  It does prove, IMO, however, that he was on
the fringes of the Wilton Cult.  Spenser must have forgiven him for
the tennis court fiasco.

Your posts are not proving Oxfordianism, Art.  None of them have, and
you must be approaching 21,000 posts by now.  Do you think you should
give it up?  :-)

Michael Martin


subject: Re: 3-4-5 Pythagorean Triangles

text:
.
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------
1742 Alexander Pope: THE DUNCIAD: BOOK IV
.
"Who study Shakespeare at the Inns of Court,
Impale a glow-WORM, or VERtú profess,
SHINE in the dignity of F. R. S.,
[S]ome, DEEP Free-Masons, join the silent race,
[W]orthy to fill PYTHAGORAS's place"
--------------------------------------------------------

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

That particular problem may take a Wiles, Dave.

I can, however, prove the impossibility of
n^x+n^y=n^z for some integer n>2 if you like.

Art Neuendorffer
...................................................................
"I'm being toyed with by a bunch of depraved children."

"I'm pulling back the curtain. I want to meet the wizard


author: [redacted]

subject: classic greek-english dictionary

text:
I am looking to provide my student daugther with
a greek-english (and vice versa) disctionary for
the study of classic greek language and culture.
I have no luck in local good bookstores (e.g.
Stanford...) or at Amazon. Any pointer is welcome.
Hans

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


author: Tom Bell

subject: Re: classic greek-english dictionary

text:
Well - there aren't that many lexica which have both Greek-English and
English-Greek - there are of course separate books which will do one or the
other.  Liddell-Scott-Jones (LSJ) is the most famous Greek-English lexicon,
and comes in three versions, the largest of which is very useful when
analysing authors since it sites occurrences in particular authors of a
given word.  The other versions have less detail - the intermediate followed
by the abriged.  The ISBN/ISSN no. for the full version is 0198642261
(newest edition).  Amazon sell all three - the intermediate is probably the
most appropriate for a beginner.  It's $45, whereas the full version is
$135.  Try this link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0199102066/qid=977419846/sr=1-1/106-6
787269-4537205 Unless she is undertaking prose composition, she will
probably not require a English-Greek dictionary, but there are some very
good ones around if she so desires.

If she wishes to inquire into Greek culture and history, then there are few
to better the Oxford Classical Dictionary - an excellent resource for
Classical research.  Try this link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/019866172X/o/qid=977420127/sr=2-1/106
-6787269-4537205

Tom

<[email]> wrote in message news:91s5sb$f2h$[email]...


author: Jack Forster

subject: Re: classic greek-english dictionary

text:
<< Unless she is undertaking prose composition, she will
probably not require a English-Greek dictionary, but there are some very
good ones around if she so desires. >>

Actually, any suggestions, Tom or anyone else, on a good English-Greek
dictionary?

TIA,

Jack Forster


author: Thomas Bushnell, BSG

subject: Re: classic greek-english dictionary

text:
[email] (Jack Forster) writes:

Hrm, I don't know of one, except that the Perseus project's online
Liddel and Scott lets you search all the English definitions for a
given word, which functions essentially the same way as an
English-Greek dictionary would.


subject: Re: classic greek-english dictionary

text:
<< Hrm, I don't know of one, except that the Perseus project's online
Liddel and Scott lets you search all the English definitions for a
given word, which functions essentially the same way as an
English-Greek dictionary would. >>

Thanks Thomas, the online L&S is good; I just prefer a big old book on my desk,
though I might find myself going to Perseus more often once I (finally) get a
broadband connection and don't have to log on every time I see a verb ending I
don't recognize.

Cheers,

Jack Forster


author: Michael Greer

subject: Euryclea and the Scar

text:
Two points. First, the point is that which has no part. Since a point
lacks extension, it has no dimension. A land without dimension would
be a land without character: for that, we do have a point. A plot is
in need of points. Points such as "at that point in the story" yields
less satisfaction if viewed from the plane of action. That's the first
point. Now on to the next two points.

The first point is easy to follow: Eurcylea. Let's consult Auerbach's
famous commentary on this woman: the reader learns that--she is the
old housekeeper. Notice the importance of the original, marking out a
distinct character. She has been the nurse. She has been the nurse
even as he is not in need of a nurse.
Once the nursing has been done, we may say that no more nursing is
then necessary. But even then the nurse has nursed in some perfect
sense.
There is some sense in which, when making a point, one needs to focus
on feet.
Greek custom requires this focus. We need to look at the feet of
travellers.
Those feet are likely to be tired and in need of a bath. Such a bath
is the perfect occasion for washing. Some might be confused how feet
can be tired. It is sometimes contested that feet are tired or whether
in fact the whole person, physically speaking, is tired.

Now on to the second point: Odysseus moves out of the light. Into the
dark. This is the moment of recognition. Can we imagine, dare we
imagine the fear, the joy, the mixed reaction from Eurylea's lips!?
Dare we. Maybe the reader would be better off imagining conditions in
Hades. Has Athena diverted attention away from Penelope. No one really
knows. No one dares to imagine.

And then there is our second point. Auerbach's comments. Have they
stood this long, some sixty years without recognition? Who can say?
According to him, all of this scene is related in a leisurely pace.
The right hand has been used. Did he abuse her? Did he seek to
strangle his wet nurse? These problems, unfortunately dwell in the
darkness of time. We may not be able to uncover them.

MGreer


author: Gordon

subject: Re: Euryclea and the Scar

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

Astonishing, It's almost like the Weaverbot, but without the Latin bits.

*plonk*


subject: Re: Euryclea and the Scar

text:
Gordon <[email]> wrote in message news:<7Ppec.17564$[email]>...

Plonk. Plonk. Oink,defecate, snear, smear, dump a load, twist some
refuse, post on the net, fly like a flea, such a life has he.

MGreer


author: Mike Lyle

subject: Re: Euryclea and the Scar

text:
[email] (Michael Greer) wrote in message news:<[email]>...
I wonder if you speak French, Michael? I feel your material would work
wonderfully in that language. (You'd be in good company, of course: I
believe Goethe preferred his own work in French translation.)

Mike.


author: Jim Klein

subject: Rand on "Must"

text:
I said I'd post up what I believe is a relevant cite from Rand about the
principles behind her political principles.  The issue at hand is whether or
not Rand could possibly have been in favor of nonconsensual monopoly
governance.  Naturally I think the idea that she even _maybe_ was, is
completely laughable, just looking at the whole of her writing and the
thrust of her obvious distrust of government.

Plus, I think she begins her argument in _The Nature of Government_ clearly
enough..."The source of the government's authority is 'the consent of the
governed.'"  I don't see much wiggle room around that, but then I'm not a
hypocrite nor rationalizer.  It seems to me that this very, very clearly
implies that in the absence of consent, the government has no authority.

Now naturally, that's not what the opposition says.  The more simple-minded
among them go directly to Rand's conclusions about what a proper government
ought to look like and conclude, "See, that's a proper government;
therefore it's okay to impose it because it's proper."  There is not a
single word in all of Rand's writings that indicates she would accept such a
view, and there are tons of words that indicate she wouldn't.

But we're still left with a sentence shortly after the one I cited above:
"There is only one basic principle to which an individual must consent if he
wishes to live in a free, civilized society;  the principle of renouncing
the use of physical force and delegating to the government his right of
physical self-defense."

Now I've always commented that this sentence that is straight-forward;  if
one wants a free society, then one must consent to a monopoly government.
After all, that was pretty clearly Rand's view.  But absolutely _nowhere_
does she imply that based on this conclusion, it might somehow be okay to
impose such a monopoly government.

ARIans, to nearly a one, all disagree with this.  They say that because she
used "must," she meant "do, or have it forced upon you."  Here's Jim Austin
in a recent post on this point:  "Rand's conclusions on individual rights is
precisely one of those conclusions she was willing to force on those not
inclined to respect rights."

Of course even that doesn't go precisely to the point, since we're not
concerned with "those not inclined to respect rights."  The distinctive
feature of a nonconsensual monopoly government is that it's imposed on even
those who _are_ inclined to respect rights.  For that point, Austin is
reduced to the same place Prescott is, roughly "Must means do...or else."

I think that's manifestly absurd.  Rand never gave _any_ indication that she
_ever_ thought it would be moral, or that "she was willing to force"
anything upon anyone.  For her, as for all rational people, that's the exact
_opposite_ of what "moral" might be.

But we're still left with that damn word "must."  So I enter the following,
from pages 98-99 of PWNI, in the essay _Causality versus Duty_.  The point
is not direct, but it's reasonably clear IMO.  One must(!) keep in mind that
Rand viewed things hierarchically, and what she's discussing here goes to
the principles behind the principles, so to speak, and not directly to
politics or anything like that at all.

One last thing, before the cite.  This is not intended for ARIans at all;
something like this could never persuade non-thinkers and I know that.  This
is meant for those who want to try to discern  a) what Rand thought and how
she approached such topics, and more importantly b) how any rational person
ought to do that.  As my time is so limited this week, I may not be able to
address the likely comments.  I'm posting this cite because I think it's
relevant;  any reader will judge it as he wishes.

-------------------------------------------------

"In reality and in the Objectivist ethics, there is no such thing as
'duty.'  There is only choice and the full, clear recognition of a
principle obscured by the notion of 'duty':  _the Law of Causality_.

"The proper approach to ethics, the start from a metaphysically clean
slate, untainted by any touch of Kantianism, can best be illustrated
by the following story.  In answer to a man who was telling her that
she's _got to_ do something or other, a wise old Negro woman said:
'Mister, there's nothing I've _got to_ do except die.'

"Life or death is man's only fundamental alternative.  To live is his
basic act of choice.  If he chooses to live, a rational ethics will
tell him what principles of action are required to implement his
choice.  If he does not choose to live, nature will take its course.

"Reality confronts a man with a great many 'musts,' but all of them
are conditional;  the formula of realistic necessity is:  'You must,
if--' and the 'if' stands for man's choice:  '--if you want to
achieve a certain goal.'  You must eat, if you want to survive.  You
must work, if you want to eat.  You must think, if you want to work.
You must look at reality, if you want to think--if you want to know
what to do--if you want to know what goals to choose--if you want to
know how to achieve them.

"In order to make the choices required to achieve his goals, a man
needs the constant, automatized awareness of the principle which the
anti-concept 'duty' has all but obliterated in his mind:  the principle
of causality--specifically, of Aristotelian _final causation_ (which,
in fact, applies only to a conscious being), i.e., the process by
which an end determines the means, i.e., the process of choosing a
goal and taking the actions necessary to achieve it.

"In a rational ethics, it is causality--not 'duty'--that serves as
the guiding principle in considering, evaluating and choosing one's
actions, particularly those necessary to achieve a long-range goal.
Following this principle, a man does not act without knowing the
purpose of his action.  In choosing a goal, he considers the means
required to achieve it, he weighs the value of the goal against the
difficulties of the means and against the
full, hierarchical context of all his other values and goals.  He
does not demand the impossible of himself, and he does not decide
too easily which things are impossible.  He never drops the context
of the knowledge available to him, and never evades reality, realizing
fully that his goal will not be granted to him by any power other
than his own action, and, should he evade, it is not some Kantian
authority that he could be cheating, but himself.

"If he becomes discouraged by difficulties, he reminds himself of
the goal that requires them, knowing that he is fully free to
reconsider--to ask:  'Is it worth it?'--and that no punishment is
involved except the renunciation of the value he desires.  (One
seldom gives up in such cases, unless one finds that it is
rationally necessary.)"

        Rand, _Causality Versus Duty_ in PWNI  [emphasis hers]

-----------------------------------------------

Make of it what you will.  The point is there for those who want to see it.
In Objectivese, what the ARIans are trying to do is turn the man-made into
the metaphysical.  The penultimate sentence goes to this point.

And whether anyone sees what I'm saying or not, it's still the case that
_nowhere_ in Rand's writings--directly or indirectly--did she _ever_ imply
that her conclusions concerning rational government were of a nature that
they "ought" to be imposed on those who might not consent.

"The source of the government's authority is 'the consent of the governed.'"

It doesn't matter what a bunch of anti-rational faith-mongers say;  the
_fact_ of the matter is that Rand chose her punctuation mark there, and she
unambiguously chose a period.  She even went so far as to explain the
sentence in the rest of the paragraph;  it took one whole additional
sentence:  "This means that the government is not the _ruler_, but the
servant or _agent_ of the citizens;  it means that the government as such
has no rights except the rights _delegated_ to it by the citizens for a
specific purpose."

Now what language is that, and how many ways are there to interpret it?

It is not a condition of Objectivism that one must be a statist thug;  that
this needs to be pointed out at all, is as black a mark against Leonard
Peikoff and his gang as any could possibly be.

jk


subject: Re: Rand on "Must"

text:
In article <[email]>,
	Jim Austin <[email]> wrote:

[more bullshit about what Rand meant]

I wrote an extensive reply to Austin's post, but it hasn't propogated and
I'm not about to do it again.  I'll reduce the issue to complete simplicity.

I say Rand _never_ stood in favor of nonconsensual monopoly governance, even
as she clearly believed that monopoly governance was the only way rational
men would ever form a rational society.  I have entered cites from Rand
which _explicitly_ support this, as well as the long cite at the beginning
of this thread which I believe gives a clue as to Rand's approach to the
topic of morality generally, and her usage of "must" in particular.

Austin says I cite out of context, even though I cited quite a long passage
to begin this thread.  Austin says I "string" stuff together, even though my
cite had no deletions within it.  And more to the point, Austin says that
Rand obviously was in favor of nonconsensual monopoly governance.

So how does he support it?  Simple...being the hypocrite that he is, he does
exactly what he charges me as doing.  He cites single sentences out of
context and strings them together in order to show that Rand obviously
believed the opposite of what I say she believed.

So here's Austin's challenge, which was the thrust of my reply that didn't
go through.  Austin says that Rand believed monopoly government ought to be
imposed...not just upon rights-violators, but upon non-violators too.  But
he can't produce a direct cite in support of that;  like all ARIans, he
produces bits and pieces which supposedly show "Rand meant to say this," or
"Rand must've believed this."

The underlying premise is that Rand wasn't a clear writer, that we have to
divine her meanings from revelation or something like that.  No doubt that
fits good with the authoritative cult known as the ARI, but it doesn't suit
Rand very well IMO.

My challenge to Austin, or anyone else, is to come up with a _single_ cite-
just one--anywhere in Rand's writings--anywhere at all--about any topic--not
just governance--where she stated explicitly that in her opinion it's moral
to enforce _anything_ upon _anyone_ for _any reason_, in the absence of that
person engaging physical force first.

Just one.  I don't care the topic, I don't care the sort of force, and I
don't care about her reasoning.  If he can produce even _one_ such cite, I
will concede that a least _maybe_ Rand though it moral to impose monopoly
government on non-consenters, even in the absence of those non-consenters
initiating force themselves.

He won't have one, and none of the ARIans ever do.  But they've got so much
dancing around the point that it can make your head dizzy.  "Rand meant
this;"  "Rand indicated this;"  "Rand supported this"...everything BUT "Rand
SAID this."  So that was the point, Jim, of my response that didn't
propagate...either post up the _direct_ cite from Rand--one that says
ANYTHING may be morally imposed on non-force-initiators--or shut the hell
up.  Or don't shut the hell up, and continue being exposed as the libelor of
Objectivism that you are.

And the same goes for anyone else.  Don't _tell_ us that Rand obviously
meant to say such-and-such;  _show_ us that she DID say such-and-such.  And
"such-and-such" here is that X may be forcefully and morally imposed on
anyone for any reason in the absence of that person initiating force
himself.  And X may be anything at all, not just government;  the situation
may be any time and any place;  the reasons may be stated or unstated.

That's extraordinarily wide latitude and she wrote an awful lot of stuff, so
it should be no problem at all.  IF that was her belief, eh?

Start the music;  it's time for the Objectivist Two-Step!

jk


author: Jim Austin

subject: Re: Rand on "Must"

text:
Jim Klein wrote:

Klein believes that one can pick out a few quotes taken out of
context, string them together and the make Rand into some kind
of libertarian or anarchist, notwithstanding that Rand has
repudiated libertarianism and anarchism.

Actually, Rand begins her argument with a definition of government:
"A government is an institution that holds the exclusive power to
*enforce* certain rules of social conduct in a given geographical
area."

The consent of the governed is not enough. Nazi Germany and the
Soviet Union could both claim the consent of the governed.
"The nature of the laws proper to a free society and the source
of its government's authority are both to be derived from the
nature and purpose of a proper government."

The source of the government's moral authority is its conformance
to morality itself.

I used that quote once before, but I don't see it among the
quotes provided, but then, Klein is not interested in any true
rendition of Rand's beliefs.

Government is imposed because that is the nature of government,
by Rand's own definition of government, another quote missing from
Klein's rendition. If Rand did not want to impose it on anybody,
then she would not have advocated a government.

If one must accept a monopoly government, then that government
has just been imposed. If Rand did not want to impose a government,
then there would have been no "must" about it.

Apparently, Klein is unwilling to compel anyone to respect
anybody's rights.

My dictionary defines must as"

"vb  used as an auxiliary esp. to express a command, requirement,
obligation, or necessity".

Klein attempts to make Rand out to be some kind of pacifist who
balks at using force to uphold rights.

This means he knows that ARIans will not accepts his attempts at
evasion and subterfuge through quotes taken out of context.

In applying that to the problem at hand:

"There is only one basic principle to which an individual *must*
consent *if* he wishes to live in a free, civilized society: the
principle of renouncing the use of physical force and delegating
to the government his right of physical self-defense, for the
purpose of an orderly,objective, legally defined enforcement."
[emphasis mine].

For those who don't want to live in a free, civilized society,
that's what the "legally defined enforcement" is all about.

It wouldn't be the first time Klein got it backwards.

Standing alone, that statement would be incorrect since a dictatorship
made possible through the passive support of the population can claim
the "consent of the governed."

Thus to supply the full context:

"The nature of the laws proper to a free society and the source
of its government's authority are both to be derived from the
nature and purpose of a proper government."

It certainly doesn't matter what a wilful evader who likes to
drop contexts says.

It means that government exists to enforce rights.

Just one, but not the way Klein tries to misconscrew it.

It is Klein who wants to spare thugs the unpleasant experence of
having individual rights enforced on them without their consent.

Klein's hostility and malice toward ARI and Peikoff are just
limited expressions of the more general libertarian hostility
to Ayn Rand and Objectivism per se.

Jim Austin


author: David Friedman

subject: Re: Rand on "Must"

text:
Mark Sieving <[email]> wrote:

(quoting rand)

 "There is only one basic principle to which an individual must
consent if he wishes to live in a free, civilized society;  the
principle of renouncing the use of physical force and delegating to
the government his right of physical self-defense."

and objects:

Let me, for once, defend Rand. If the government has the right of
physical self-defense, it is going to have to use human beings to
exercise it. So what she is saying is not "nobody can use physical
force" or "nobody can use to force to defend himself," merely "one can
use physical force, to defend yourself or for other purposes, only with
the government's permission."

That is consistent with a society where the government grants you,
through the laws, the right to defend yourself under circumstances where
calling a cop isn't a practical option, while at the same time limiting
that right--as current law does.


author: Mark Sieving

subject: Re: Rand on "Must"

text:
In article <8vfu30$bqh$[email]>,
  Jim Klein <[email]> wrote:

I don't think Rand really meant to say this.  As stated, this is
nonsense.  I could accept as reasonable the idea that individuals must
renounce their right to retaliation and leave that to the government,
but if you expect the government to give you physical defense, you're
dreaming.  The government's role lies not in defending you from attack,
but in punishing the attacker, after the fact.  All laws that I am
aware of recognize the right of individuals to use physical force in
self-defense.

It's basically the language of John Locke, and there are lots of ways
to interpret it.  The interpretations will depend on what you mean
by "consent," "the governed," and "citizen."

For example, does "consent" for you include what Locke termed "implicit
consent": the idea that an individidual has implicitly consented to the
authority of the government so long as he remains in the territory
under the jurisdiction of that government?

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


subject: Re: Rand on "Must"

text:
In article <[email]>,
  David Friedman <[email]> wrote:

OK, I hadn't considered this interpretation.  So would you say (if you
were Rand) that it would be just if the government denied individuals
the right to defend themselves? I think that if this interpretation of
Rand is correct, she would have to hold that the government may justly
deny individuals the right to use physical force, even to save their
lives.  Maybe, but I'd be kind of surprised if that were the case.

The current law that I am most familiar with is the law of the State of
Illinois.  Illinois law doesn't say anything about circumstances where
calling a cop isn't practical, and it doesn't limit the amount of force
you may use to defend yourself.  What it does is define what is self-
defense and what isn't.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


author: Patty Winter

subject: Doctor Who meets Shakespeare

text:
Tonight's episode of "Doctor Who" on CBC is "The Shakespeare
Code," in which the Doctor and Martha meet Will. This episode
will air on the SciFi Channel in the U.S. on July 13.

Patty