author: Donald W. Fausett

text:
At a symposium on massively parallel computing a few years ago, there
was a panel discussion on programming languages.  Guy Steele (author
of several books on Lisp, C, etc.) commented:  I cannot tell you what
features the dominant language of the future may have, or its syntax,
or any other aspects of the language.  But I can tell you one thing -
its name.  It will be called Fortran.


author: Tanuj Bansal

subject: Re: On FORTRAN as a development language (was Re: Reliability of numerical software

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Barry Merriman) writes:

It has been 31 for_a_long_time.


author: Andrew Mullhaupt

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Barry Merriman) writes:

Continuation _characters_ are idiotic. The best choice for continuation
character is _whitespace_. Thus the 72 character limit _is_ onerous.

However, the 72 character limit is not imposed in FORTRAN 77, which can
accept "free form" source.

The _real_ screwups in FORTRAN readability after this are things like
the foolish redundancy of the CALL keyword, the stupidity of the dot
based relational operators and the ill considered overloading of parentheses
for both array selection and function argument grouping.

Another problem with FORTRAN is that a lot of unstructured dirty laundry
is still permitted, and that labels are still involved in loops. This is
just plain flat out nonsense and we've known better than to do this for
more than twenty five years.

Let's not forget one _really big_ obstacle to readability - the ability to
pass multiple parameters as array descriptors. FORTRAN ought to forbid this
outmoded and readability bankrupt practice. What's worse, the tendency for
multiple library routines to have the same interface, distinguished by
integer options and integer result codes is a readability disaster both
in the calling and called subprograms. FORTRAN deserves to be replaced just
for _permitting_ this ancient outrage not to mention _encouraging it_.

Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt


author: suresh krishnajois

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
(J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
|>
|> All I can say to that is, "Amen, Brother!" To paraphrase one of the wisest
|> people I know (who happened to be comparing fishing to working at the
office),
|> "A lousy day of real science is better than a good day of Computer
'Science'."
|>

After 9 yrs of some really adventurous C -ing, I regret the decision not
to pursue math/physics on the advice of - all people - my math teacher.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply To:    Suresh Krishnajois
email   :    [email]
Phone   :    415-390-5454 (work)
Methinks:    I think, therefore my head aches  };-(
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


author: David Kastrup

text:
[email] ( Donald W. Fausett) writes:

Reminds me of the weirdo who called his toothbrush "Fido". Well, no matter what that
language is called, I pray it does not LOOK like Fortran.


author: Barry Merriman

text:
In article <1sj7oi$[email]> [email] (Tanuj Bansal)
writes:
(Barry Merriman) writes:
The greatest barrier to readability is the 6 character

Oh really? When did they change the f77 standard?

I'm well aware that most C-based compilers allow O(32) characters
in a name (though how many are used as the actual identifier is not
so clear).

But unless I'm woefully mistaken, the f77 standard was 6 characters,
all CAPS.

I personally ignore the 6 character limit, but the point is that
because it has been in place for so long, it is part of the
popular fortran culture, and I see plenty of codes written this
year that use that cnvntn.

Personally, I don't see why they just don't make the name length
a compiler option, so that I can use 64 or 556 or whatever length
names I want.

(I wouldn't have humans write code with names of 556 length, by i can
imagine machine generated code where it might be convenient...)


author: Ron Shepard

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Barry Merriman) writes:

Well there is f90, which, after a much prolonged labor, is only a year younger
than C89.  It standardized existing practice, which was to support longer
variable names as well as folding upper and lower case.  f77 is now an
"archival standard" which means that it is still valid, but that it will not be
changed or upgraded in the future.  BTW, why isn't this discussion in
comp.lang.fortran instead of sci.math.num-analysis?

-Ron Shepard
[email]


author: Marc Roussel

text:
In article <[email]> [email]
(Barry Merriman) writes:
[...]

     For portability, the standard has to set a minimum number of
characters that must be allowed in an identifier in all
standard-conforming implementations.

				Marc R. Roussel
                                [email]


text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Ron Shepard) writes:

Because the discussion is about the reliability of numerical software and
has adventured into the question of the relative fitness of other languages
for scientific computation and even the question of whether there is _any_
really good language for scientific computation.

So it is not a FORTRAN specific thread, and it isn't _exactly_ a numerical
analysis thread. But last I heard the scientific computation newsgroup
did not get created.

Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt


author: Thomas Koenig

text:
[email] (Andrew Mullhaupt) writes:

It's there... note the crossposting and followup to sci.comp-aided.


author: Pat Flannery

subject: Sino Space Spy Steals Shuttle Secrets !

text:
http://voanews.com/english/2008-02-11-voa58.cfm
Dongfan Chung...the Red Wiggler who wormed his way into Boeing!
What does Beijing want to know about our little Shuttle?
Cryogenic engine technology?
TPS technology?
Great big skyrocket technology?
Lead-free paint formulas?
The World Waits, Watches, And Wonders.
Sounds like it might be time for some Soy Sauce Boarding, Hot Mustard On
The Chairman's Little Friend, and Szechuan Pepper Enemas.
Choose two of the above.
"Wise man opens mouth before rendition - lucky numbers:10 to 20." ;-)

Pat


author: Eric Chomko

subject: Re: Sino Space Spy Steals Shuttle Secrets !

text:
On Feb 12, 4:47 pm, [email] (Rand Simberg)
wrote:

But there are restrictions (ITAR) of all things the US government does
even unclassified things.


author: [redacted]

text:
On Feb 13, 7:43 pm, Pat Flannery <[email]> wrote:

Far more sinister than that! They're after LOX/LN2 technology!

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2008/February/chung-indictment.pdf

"The Delta IV- requires an umbilical cord mechanism, called a Tail
Service Mast ("TSM"), to feed liquid nitrogen fuel and liquid oxygen
to the aft engine section of the rocket upon takeoff. Only Boeing
employees who worked in the Delta IV program, or otherwise had a need
to know, were given access to this technology."


text:
On Feb 13, 7:30 pm, [email] (Rand Simberg)
wrote:

I suspect that the shuttle as well as many other NASA artifacts are
SBU (Secure But Unclassified). And if that doesn't seem like a
classification, though low, I don't know what it is.


author: Rand Simberg

text:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:35:45 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
eyeball <[email]> made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

There are no Shuttle "secrets."  It's not a classified program.


text:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:54:44 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
"[email]" <[email]> made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Maybe 57 was the lowest you could get to from Vandenberg.  The upper
limit out of the Cape is determined by overflight of the eastern
seaboard, again IIRC.


text:
Eric Chomko wrote:

The Soviets were keen to get their hands on the adhesive we were using
to secure the tiles onto it.
The Shuttle program was unclassified, but a lot of details (say the
specific alloys used in the SSMEs and their detailed manufacturing
processes weren't exactly advertised)
I assume the Chinese are after LOX/LH2 rocket engine technology for use
on their commercial launchers.
They have built small LOX/LH2 engines, but wish to expand the technology
into large boosters.

Pat


author: robert casey

text:
Trade secrets.  Like Intel knowing how to make high speed CPU chips,
knowledge AMD or other semiconductor houses would like to know.


author: Kevin Willoughby

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

Sure there are Shuttle secrets. There have been classified Shuttle
flights for the DoD.


author: Jorge R. Frank

text:
Rand Simberg wrote:

57 was the "operational" limit at KSC. 36 flew to 62 by performing a
prop-expensive dogleg during second stage.


text:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:57:21 -0500, in a place far, far away, Kevin
Willoughby <[email] > made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

The flights, and their payloads, were classified.  Nothing about the
Shuttle itself was.


text:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:37:52 -0600, in a place far, far away, "Jorge
R. Frank" <[email]> made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

Ah.  That was what I remembered.  The higher-inclination came at a
huge payload penalty from the dogleg.


text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

So what's the maximum inclination of a Shuttle flight?

Oh that's right, (at least according to Mike Mullane in his "Riding
Rockets" memoir), he can say he set the record, but he can't say what
the record is...


text:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:37:59 -0500, in a place far, far away, Kevin
Willoughby <[email] > made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Out of the Cape?  57 degrees, IIRC.

If they had ever completed Vandenberg, and operated, I think that max
was 104 degrees, but with almost no payload.

I'm not sure what your point is.


author: Doug Otis

subject: Re: And what about the "AMPLITUDE" ?

text:
Planck related energy to frequency.  This energy is limited to integer increments. E
= nh frequency.

Doug Otis

Furne wrote:


author: Paul Iannone

subject: Re: Cheese

text:
One factor to consider is that some artificial cheese foods use aluminum to
aid melting effect. I prefer to avoid such innovations.


author: Mark Thorson

subject: Re: Cheese

text:
Maybe you should try Cheez Whiz.  I remember a couple years ago there
was a story in the media about how Cheez Whiz was one of the richest
sources of [some component of food I can't remember] which was supposed
to be good for your cardiovascular system or something.

Maybe Marty remembers what I'm talking about.  When I heard the story,
it just gave me a chuckle and made me check whether it was April 1 or not.


author: Dr. Jai Maharaj

subject: Re: Cheese

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Mark
Thorson) wrote:

      There's no telling what they were trying to push on TV:
perhaps some mad nutritionist put the urine of cardiologists in the
Cheese Whiz.

*-=Om Shanti=-*   Jai Maharaj


author: Tom Miller

subject: Re: The Jewish Media's War on Asians

text:
"Uncle Al" Schwartz <[email]> wrote:

What was was Sci.Chem's answer to Hannibal Lecter doing up here in Richmond
BC??

Next time drop me a line, buy you a Heineken.

Tom Miller


author: Frank Vigil

subject: Re: Gas Log Fireplaces: Vent or Vent-Free?!?@!?@

text:
Todd:

I am dumbfounded to hear of all the unvented appliances in your house...an UNVENTED WATER HEATER?
:::sigh:::  You are very fortunate indeed, to have not experienced any fatalities (note, I didn't
say "any health effects") as a result.  The National Consumer Products Safety Commission reports
that over 2500 deaths a year stem from "non fire-related" combustion deaths.  Additionally, it is
believed that there are thousands upon thousands of illnesses each year as a result of CO
poisoning.  It is hard to get a handle on exactly how many, because sub-lethal CO poisoning is often
diagnosed (by both the patient and the doctor) as the "flu" as the symptoms are exactly the same:
dizziness, nausea, vomiting, headaches etc.  Studies around the world have confirmed that even low
level dosages of CO can lead to early termination of pregnancy, mental impairment of the elderly and
the young (not only are those two age groups more sensitive to CO, they are also the very groups who
spend the greatest amount of time indoors), and poor brain-hand-eye coordination.  In other words,
not something that you want to mess with, especially when it is so avoidable.

You are very fortuante that your house is drafty, though I would never suggest that dilution is the
solution to pollution, only that it is helping you to some extent.  I'd be really curious to see
what the carboxyhemoglobin content of your blood, and the blood of your wife and children, is.  You
might not be so "lucky" as you think.

Todd Flach wrote:


author: Todd Flach

text:
In article <[email]>, Frank Vigil <[email]> writes:

Postscript.

I haven't lived in that house for the last 18 years. My wife has never lived in that house.
My parents still live there (both now in their 70's, in suprisingly good health).
I take your point seriously about CO poisoning, and yes we were lucky.

The irony of it all I think is that my family attributes its apparent low frequence of colds and
flu to, yes, A DRAFTY HOUSE, ie. lots of fresh air, whatever temperature it is. I might add that
we used only a few window-unit air conditioners in the worst of the summer heat, keeping that
source of airborne irritants to a minimum. Likewise in the public schools I went to. And man, it
was hot and humid for 5 months a year.

Carboxyhemoglobin? Not quite sure, to be honest, but I have had numerous blood tests through
the years, and I don't ever recall that being a problem. I am not an active athlete anymore,
but I ran a mile in 6 minutes yesterday, without breaking out into much of a sweat.

Todd


author: Bob Borgeson

text:
Frank Vigil <[email]> wrote:

<snip>

I agree that CO is an emission that needs to be carefully
controlled for safety reasons.  But, since this thread is
about gas appliances, I think it would be more informative
for the newsgroup readers if you could break down which part
of the number you cite is related to gas appliances and
which is from other causes.  I believe you will find that
the vast majority are not related to gas appliances -
unvented or otherwise.  Most are actually related to
automobile exhaust and many of those are suicides.

Readers of this news group who are interested in CO topics
might be interested in the extensive treatise on CO found at
http://www.mes.umn.edu/Documents/H/K/HK1000.html . (I am not
affiliated with this site.)  Besides a description of
everything you want to know about the effects of CO, it
breaks down the statistics from several studies of CO safety
problems.  If you use the breakdown of the study by Cobb and
Etzel, covering 9 years and more than 56,000 deaths, natural
gas appliances were implicated in about 1% (one per cent) of
the total.  That would work out to perhaps 65 per year.
That's too many, since only zero is OK, but its a lot
different from your number.

You might want to contact CPSC and ask them how many deaths
have been recorded thus far from unvented gas space heating
equipment, equipped with oxygen depletion sensors (ODS).  I
personally checked with them a few months ago.  The answer
is ZERO.  If you don't believe me, ask them yourself.

Again, CO is dangerous and exposure needs to be controlled
through proper Codes and standards.  Some folks in this
thread have documented the what amounts to total use of
unvented equipment for heating their homes.  I would never
recommend this.!  These appliances are good for heating a
cool area occasionally or providing a nice fireplace scene
for a while.  Otherwise, consumers should use more formal
heating appliances.

Bob

============================================================================

Bob Borgeson
http://junior.apk.net/~bborge


author: Howard Homler

subject: Re: Which is better FSH or LH to determine Menopause

text:
salmanf <[email]> wrote:

I personally like to measure estradiol along with FSH, but several
docs in my area start cyclical hormonal therapy when people are just
starting to get irregular periods and are perimenopausal, to make the
transition smoother.
General Internal Medicine
Sacramento, California


author: Gavin Tabor

subject: Re: The Motives of Scientists

text:
[email] (Jim Carr) wrote:

I've now read the document in its entirety, and my impression
is that there is less there than meets the eye. I got the feeling
that a lot of the waffle there - and there was a lot - was there
in order to disguise the fact that he is trying to `demonify'
perfectly reasonable human activities. I'd better explain that
more clearly. I do science. I play the Cello. Both activities
give me a lot of pleasure - probably more pleasure than I would
get out of hunting down my own food. Both are what I think the
Unibomber would define as `surrogate activities'. By giving
them this name, and by waffling a lot, he seems to give the
impression that such activities are less fulfilling, less beneficial,
than non-surrogate activities. But for the life of me, I can't
see why.

The other contention that he puts forward without any attempt to
justify it, is that human beings were in some way happier in the
past. Really??

Very methodical, yes. Extremely organised, yes. Very intelligent
and well read ... well, I have my doubts. It gave me the impression
of someone with a superficial knowledge of a wide range of subjects.

Gavin Tabor


author: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
Mu wrote:

I can imagine.

Ok.

No.

Eat less down to the right amount (less than 2 pounds per day) and you
will lose down to your right weight.

You'll be hungrier.  But that's ok because your hunger is your friend.

Fyi, the Holy Spirit has compelled me to fast for 40 days and nights.
This is day 11.

GOD is humbling and reassuring me through my hunger.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife


author: Flying Rat

subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
In article <[email]>,
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD says...

that isn't what God meant when he said you should shut your mouth


author: Mu

subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
On 22 Jun 2006 03:22:44 -0700, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Hunger, thirst, sexual want, there are hundreds of emotions and states of
body that want to be squelched. Hunger has no priority for me.

Why so? Fast for a reason?

This is a good thing.

No Blimpies for awhile, huh? :)


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
"Fyi, the Holy Spirit has compelled me to fast for 40 days and nights.
This is day 11."

We are clearly instructed:

"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance:
for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou
fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto
men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which
seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly."


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
[email] wrote:

Actually, the instructions are for born-again Christians which you are
not since you have been unable to publicly declare that Jesus Christ is
your LORD, your Savior, and your GOD.

Yes.  For this reason, I am not of "sad countenance" and am fasting
joyfully without disrupting my daily routine so that the fasting is
indeed in secret to those who are around me.

Because I have been lean and trim since 1997, no one has noticed that I
have been fasting except folks whom the Spirit has compelled me to
inform.

Still praying for you, dear neighbor.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:20:41 +0100, Flying Rat wrote:

I think if God wanted a person to really and truly do or not do something,
He wouldn't disguise the command.


author: Steve

subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:53:15 -0400, Mu wrote
(in article <[email]>):

You're an inspiration to us all.


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
On 22 Jun 2006 20:34:29 GMT, [email] wrote:

Sometimes.


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
"Yes.  For this reason, I am not of "sad countenance" and am fasting
joyfully without disrupting my daily routine so that the fasting is
indeed in secret to those who are around me."

Those "around" you are the many who read this thread.  I discern the
pharisee in it, along with the other examples given before.  Lord have
mercy on me a sinner.  May God bless and protect you and give you peace,
finally.


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
[email] wrote:

Actually, no.

Actually, your "discern" is, in truth, your opine.

Without the LORD, your opinion remains meaningless (Ecclesiastes).

Actually, GOD's infinite mercy resides in the sacrifice of HIS one and
only begotten Son, LORD Jesus Christ, Who chose to suffer terribly and
die horribly in order to save us from our deadly sins.

Are you able to accept HIS mercy?

If your answer is "yes," simply confess publicly that Jesus Christ is
your LORD, your Savior, and your GOD.

Otherwise, depart knowing that you remain untruthful unlike those who
are truly saved through the LORD's infinite mercy:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheWay

Still praying for you, dear neighbor.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:59:14 -0400, Steve wrote:

Thank you.


subject: Re: Who is blessed?

text:
"> I discern the pharisee in it, along with the other examples given
before.

Actually, your "discern" is, in truth, your opine."

So when you speak to discern it is so but others not, a fine self invented
litmus test that.  I discern much more of which you can not speak as the
pharisee is driven to public demonstration, of that I discern as given by
the examples in scripture as the exact and only litmus test.

"If your answer is "yes," simply confess publicly that Jesus Christ is
your LORD, your Savior, and your GOD."

Another self invented litmus test, the only universal accepted expression
of the christian faith is the Nicene creed.  Can you publically state you
accept it in full as in its original version and meaning?

Lord have mercy on me a sinner.  May God bless and protect you and give
you peace, finally.


author: Dave

subject: Errors on web pages of CAS related sites.

text:
I've had a few beers, so the following should be taken a bit 'tongue in
cheek'!!

It all started following some comments on other places about the web
sites of Sage and Mathematica.

You would expect companies selling CAS software to pay attention to
detail, so as a laugh I decided to look at the number of errors and
warnings using the W3C validator http://validator.w3.org/ of various web
sites.

I thought it was only fair I included one of my own, which is for a web
interface to Mathematica I wrote.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/

Mine is the only one of the sites that attempts to validate to the W3C
'strict' rather than 'transitional' standards. It fails, with one
warning, which I will get around to fixing.

I also included Vladimir Bondarenko's web site, since his program tests
the quality of CAS systems.

Sage homepage: http://www.sagemath.org/
0 Errors, 0 Warning(s).
Doctype: XHTML 1.0 Transitional
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sagemath.org%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654

WITM (my tool) http://witm.sourceforge.net/
0 Errors, 1 warning(s):
Doctype: HTML 4.01 Strict
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwitm.sourceforge.net%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654

Wolfram Research homepage: http://www.wolfram.com/
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wolfram.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654
Doctype: XHTML 1.0 Transitional
33 Errors, 0 warnings

MATLAB homepage http://www.mathworks.com/products/matlab/
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fproducts%2Fmatlab%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654
Doctype: HTML 4.01 Transitional
41 Errors, 13 warning(s)

Maplesoft homepage http://www.maplesoft.com/
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maplesoft.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654
Doctype: HTML 4.0 Transitional
http://www.maplesoft.com/
98 Errors, 2 warning(s)

Cybertester homepage: http://www.cybertester.com/
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cybertester.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654
Doctype: HTML 4.0 Transitional
222 Errors, 1 warning(s)

I must say I *personally* find the Mathematica page looks the best of
them all - even better than my own WITM, but lots of people comment the
flash is overdone on the Mathematica page.

The Wolfram Research home page

http://www.wolfram.com/

appears to be broken now, as the only 'product' one can select is
Mathematica. All others like gridMathematica can't be selected from the
home page, though they can from other pages like:

http://www.wolfram.com/products/mathematica/index.html

There was a comment on uk.net.web.authoring

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.net.web.authoring/browse_thread/thread/86e67560942eb49f/e7f7be360c38ceea?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Please+compare+two+sites+for+maths+programs.#e7f7be360c38ceea

about the Mathematica home page (not the Wolfram homepage) of "A source
(see View Source) that looks rather incompetent in too many ways to
list. It's a bloody wonder the show gets on the road."

Anyway, based on this rather rudimentary check of web pages, the number
of errors increases as:

Sage < WITM < Wolfram < MATLAB < Maplesoft < Cybertester

Just one to chew over.

Note, I took the home pages of these companies, not the products
themselves, though in the case of MATLAB, there is a redirect from
www.mathworks.com to the MATLAB page.

After that, it's time to have another beer!!

Please treat this as intended - a bit of fun!


subject: Re: Errors on web pages of CAS related sites.

text:
Dave wrote:

One thing to note is that the commercial sites, which pay professional
web designers (I'm not sure if that is so with Cybertester), tend to
have far more errors than the open-source sites. Authors of open-source
software tend to pay more attention to detail.


author: Peter

text:
No problem.

http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/english/

This document was Tentatively checked as XHTML 1.0 Transitional
1 warning(s)

http://www.manutd.com/

Errors found while checking this document as XHTML 1.0 Transitional!
335 Errors, 27 warning(s)

I understand.


text:
On 29 Mai, 06:17, Vladimir Bondarenko <[email]> wrote:

I like this one better
http://www.cybertester.com/images/bug-ass.jpg


text:
Peter wrote:

I assume you are a Barcelona fan and/or Spanish.

It does make one wonder how 'professional' web designers can have so
many errors on their web pages.

I guess Manchester United were more concerned about the errors they made
last night, which resulted in the two goals. I gather Man U played the
first 10 minutes well, then after the Barcelona goal, the game went down
hill. I only see the second half on TV, but must admit, Barcelona did
play better than Manchester United.


author: Vladimir Bondarenko

text:
Consider the current Cyber Tester's sites to be obsolete.

Let me add, in the spirit of the OP, that the following
link is designed in a beer-free mode.

http://www.cybertester.com/images/header_site.jpg


author: Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover"

subject: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
http://www.officeclips.com
Watch video clips #3.  My heart skipped a beat when I saw it!


author: Frank Bemelman

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
"Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover"" <[email]>
schreef in bericht news:bvpcla$5r6sm$[email]...

This one is rather funny:
http://patrick.fm/video/www.kicken.com-snowtowcar.wmv


author: Jim Thompson

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:00:29 -0800, "Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun - the
Dark Remover\"" <[email]> wrote:

I liked #5 myself ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson


author: Bob Stephens

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:45:38 +0100, Frank Bemelman wrote:

Sure enough, someone went and designed a better fool.


subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
Jim Thompson wrote:

That one looked fake, like it was setup beforehand.  But then, after a
few beers, who woulda thunk..

Re: #3: Actually, someone higher up should be fired, sued, etc., for
allowing such a rinky-dink, unsafe situation to happen.  Darwin Award is
well-deserved.


author: Harry Conover

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
Jim Thompson <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

If nothing else, it's a good example of what can happen when basic
OSHA requirements are ignored. The person falling has a solid basis
for a lawsuit!

                                              Harry C.


author: "Mark J."

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
In news:BuFUb.615$[email] (Venom8):

 Riceburners: They may be fast, but that's about it. :)


subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:03:15 GMT, Bob Stephens
<[email]> wrote:

I'd bet money they're beer drinkers ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson


subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
"Harry Conover" <[email]> schreef in bericht
news:[email]...
news:<[email]>...

How about the person that got her on his head ?


author: Jeff

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
[email] (Harry Conover) wrote in
news:[email]:

This is a UK pub. Older pubs often have cellar trap doors under the bar, a
centuries old tradition, and anyone working them knows the deal. The UK
isn't (yet) a nanny state,  OSHA doesn't apply and since the Uk mostly
expects people to be responsible for their own actions, have a clue  and
not refuse resposibility for everything the UK isn't(yet) so stupidly
litigatious as some nations and so there's slim if any grounds for a
lawsuit.

Blair is moving towards it though, passing laws allowing Solicitors and
Barristers to advertise and follow the US model of claiming percentages of
settlements instead of hourly rates...


author: Spehro Pefhany >

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:27:20 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<[email]> wrote:

Maryland plates.. I guess they don't make cars the way they used to.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
"Frank Bemelman" <[email]> wrote in message news:<40216fb9$0$89909$[email]>...

She wasn't wearing an OSHA approved hard hat at the time of the
accident, so she's could be out of luck! Then too, she could make the
case that her employer had not trained here in OSHA requirements or
provided her with a hard hat to wear -- so she too could have a good
case.  :-)

                                                   Harry C.


author: Chris Hodges

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
Jeff <[email]> wrote in message news:<Xns9485CB4AC19C3jeffnospamcom@199.45.49.11>...

This isn't actually uncommon.  I've seen it happen when the landlord
had been sampling a little too much of his own wares, and _knew_ the
hatch was open!
Chris


author: Bill Garber

subject: Re: Ohmygod!  Down the Hatch!

text:
"Mark J." <127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:[email]...
: > On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:27:20 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
: > <[email]> wrote:
: >
: >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:03:15 GMT, Bob Stephens
: >> <[email]> wrote:
: >>
: >>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:45:38 +0100, Frank Bemelman wrote:
: >>>
: >>>> "Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover""
<[email]>
: >>>> schreef in bericht news:bvpcla$5r6sm$[email]...
: >>>>> http://www.officeclips.com
: >>>>> Watch video clips #3.  My heart skipped a beat when I saw
it!
: >>>>
: >>>> This one is rather funny:
: >>>> http://patrick.fm/video/www.kicken.com-snowtowcar.wmv
: >>>
: >>> Sure enough, someone went and designed a better fool.
: >>
: >> I'd bet money they're beer drinkers ;-)
: >
: > Maryland plates.. I guess they don't make cars the way they
used to.
: >
: > Best regards,
: > Spehro Pefhany
:
:
:  They don't call 'em "crumple zones" for no reason!  :)

We just watched it. OMG!, it is too much. Heh Heh.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - [email]
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me

---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 2/3/04


subject: autodesk land desktop vs. microstation

text:
Hello,

I've been using autocad in land surveying and construction
layout(Autodesk R-12 through Land Desktop 3) for 8 years. Over those
years I've learned that for every task, and not for just drawing tasks
involving cad software but for computing in general, there exist
numerous different ways and brands of software to accomplish the task.
So, over those same 8 years I've developed a massive distaste for
having to stop and learn a new way to do what I've already been doing.
Granted, a certain percentage of new software and ugrades of old
software are superior to existing methods, but for the most part
redundancy prevails.

Having spewed that, it will come as no surprise that I have no interest
whatsoever in learning a whole brand new way to run cad, in the form of
Microstation. The trouble with this is, what if I become employed at a
firm that uses it and I HAVE to learn it?
Will it be a smooth, relatively painless transformation or will I have
to be restrained from pushing the monitor off the desk?

Last item:

Objectively speaking and without personal bias, which program reigns
superior?

Thanks,

GS


author: Chris

subject: Re: autodesk land desktop vs. microstation

text:
On 20 Jan 2005 08:48:16 -0800, [email] wrote:

I use both at work.  I find LD easier, but i use it more.
Microstation has it's advantages, mainly in plotting, but in my
opinion, it does better presentation plots.  It's easier to get thing
to plot in the correct order.  It also hatches easier, but I haven't
looked into differing hatch patterns.
The hardest part about Microstation is the plotting.  It's quite
confusing until you get your head around it.  You need to edit a text
file to set up each plotter you have.  Once that's done, the plot
settings can be changed when you go to plot.  It doesn't retain plot
settings for each drawing, however, so you have to set them each time.
We have Eagle Point to do the civil stuf in Microstation, but I never
had much luck with it.  After a lot of calls to tech support, I
finally gave up.  I find it easier to do the design in LD, dxf it out
& bring it into MS to do the drafting.  The problem with that is that
the units differ between LD & MS (I don't know why) so the dwg needs
to be scaled & aligned.  Mind you, this was with Microstation J &
Eagle Point 4.  We've just upgraded to V8 & EP5, but I haven't had the
opportunity to try them out.


text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Taking a chance here....  I've been involved with both albeit microstation
was just as they were developing their first desktop routines.  I'm going to
say that whatever has the most industry support and pulls ahead as the
industry standard.  In other words, the most used software on the market,
like it or not, will be the best for your application.  Back in the days
when everything was "IBM Compatible" I would have said, get and IBM machine,
why settle for second best.  ..... darn phone.....


author: Oldbie

text:
On 20 Jan 2005 08:48:16 -0800, [email] wrote:

Wait till you have to switch from doing construction layout and topo's
with something easy, intuitive and fully functional like Topcon's
Pocket 3D, to something completley fucking insane like Trimble's
SCS900 or Survey Controller, and then spend the rest of your career
screwing with work order management and separating your points from
your lines instead of simply doing your job well.


author: Richard Kennedy

text:
In my everyday work, I use both Autocad and Microstation. Autocad is the
primary software, but as time goes on, I find that I am using Microstation
more and more. Making the transition from one to the other is not quick.
Commands and terminology are quite different. Bentley works very hard to
help make the transition from Autocad to Microstation as painless as
possible. I still prefer to work in Autocad, but that has been the software
I have used for all these years. But, Bentley's support is so superior to
Autocad's that it isn't even funny. Which program is superior? They each
have their pro's and con's. Microstation user's think its the best, Autocad
user's think it is. If you have to make the switch, it will take time reach
the same proficiency with the other. That's normal.
Good Luck!


author: Giles Evans

text:
In my experience in first making the switch to Microstation, the monitor
flew from the desk numerous times. :)  Now for survey and small engineering
tasks I prefer Land Desktop, for larger engineering projects than
Microstation is far superior.  But Autodesk is slowly catching up.  One
thing though, I haven't seen anything like this in a Bentley Product:

Here's an interesting one, has anyone else came across this in LDT/Survey
2005?:

Command: SV
SURVEY>: calc 435.34-236.98
    Result = 198.3599999999999900
SURVEY>: calc 534.65-349.23
    Result = 185.4199999999999600

Must be some new kind of subtraction patented by Autodesk?


author: [redacted]

text:
That is a floating point decimal error, the first time I ran into it
was in MS EXCEL.

The numbers are converted into hexadecimal (I believe) and the
functions are applied and then the hexadecimal result is converted by
to a decimal number.  Sometimes there is a rounding error and you get
results like that.

Giles Evans wrote:
monitor
engineering
One
LDT/Survey
McDonald's
interest
form of
at a
have
reigns


text:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:26:43 -0500, "C.M.German"

IBM was always the first manufacturer to make machines that were not
"IBM compatible" - hahahahaha !


author: Steve Farmer

subject: New Deprenyl Abstracts - Fixed & Reposted in One File

text:
Concerned Citizen <"Main Street"@USA.com> has done a good deed by
posting the following abstracts. I have fixed the formatting and
reposted the abstracts here in a single file for convenience.

The first study is the paper by the Parkinsonï¿½s Disease Research Group
of the United Kingdom that triggered the current deprenyl (selegeline)
debate. The paper reported a 60% increase in mortality in PD patients
treated with deprenyl and levodopa as opposed to levodopa alone. The
three other abstracts posted by ï¿½Concerned Citizenï¿½ have not been
posted in this newsgroup before. All three make the case for deprenyl
look even weaker - if that were possible at this point.

This little collection doesn't include the two new negative studies of
deprenyl by the US Parkinson's Study Group posted elsewhere in
sci.life-extension.

Paper #1

Lees AJ
Parkinson's Disease Research Group of the United Kingdom,
National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, London.
Source   BMJ, 311: 7020, 1995 Dec 16, 1602-7

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To compare effectiveness of levodopa and levodopa combined
with selegiline in treating early, mild Parkinson's disease. DESIGN:
Open, long term, prospective randomised trial. SETTING: 93 hospitals
throughout United Kingdom. SUBJECTS: 520 patients with early
Parkinson's disease who were not receiving dopaminergic treatment.
INTERVENTIONS: Treatment with levodopa and dopa decarboxylase
inhibitor (arm 1) or levodopa and decarboxylase inhibitor in
combination with selegiline (arm 2). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Assessments of serial disability, frequency and severity  of adverse
events, and deaths from all causes. RESULTS: After average of 5-6
years' follow up, mortality ratio in arm 2 compared with arm 1 was
1.57 (95% confidence interval 1.09 to 2.30), and difference in
survival between the two arms was significant (log rank test, P =
0.015). Hazard ratio adjusted for age and sex was 1.49 (1.02 to 2.16),
and after adjustment  for other baseline factors it increased to 1.57
(1.07 to 2.31). Patients in arm 1 had slightly worse disability scores
than those in arm 2, but differences were not significant.
Functionally disabling peak dose dyskinesias and on/off fluctuations
were more frequent in arm 2 than arm 1. During the trial the dose of
levodopa required to produce optimum motor control steadily increased
in arm 1 (median  daily dose 375 mg at 1 year and 625 mg at 4 years),
but median dose in arm 2 did not change (375 mg). CONCLUSIONS:
Levodopa in combination with selegiline seemed to confer no clinical
benefit over levodopa alone in treating early, mild Parkinson's
disease. Moreover mortality was significantly higher with combination
treatment, casting doubts on its chronic use in Parkinson's disease.

Paper #2

L-dopa increases nigral production of hydroxyl radicals in vivo:
potential L-dopa toxicity?

Smith TS, Parker WD Jr, Bennett JP Jr
Department of Neurology, University of Virginia School of
Medicine, Charlottesville 22908.

Neuroreport, 5: 8, 1994 Apr 14, 1009-11

Abstract

Dopamine (DA) deficiency in Parkinson's disease is commonly
treated with L-dihydroxyphenylalanine (L-dopa), the amino acid
precursor to DA. L-dopa  is neurotoxic in vitro and impairs survival
of metabolically stressed neurons in vivo. We examined with
microdialysis of substantia nigra in awake rats the local production
of hydroxyl (OH) radicals before and after systemic L-dopa. We found a
dose-dependent increase in OH radical output which paralleled the rate
of dopa catabolism, was not blocked by deprenyl, and was increased
further by acute inhibition of mitochondrial complex I activity.
Following high L-dopa doses, catabolism of dopa-derived DA can exceed
capacity of nigral mechanisms to reduce formation of or detoxify free
radicals.

Paper #3

Methamphetamine and amphetamine derived from the metabolism of
selegiline [deprenyl].

Romberg RW, Needleman SB, Snyder JJ, Greedan A
Navy Drug Screening Laboratory, Great Lakes, IL, USA.
J Forensic Sci, 40: 6, 1995 Nov, 1100-2

Abstract

Routine methamphetamine testing identified a urine specimen with
inconsistent screening and confirmation results. The methamphetamine
RIA screening test (Diagnostic Products Corporation) indicated a
borderline positive specimen, while the achiral confirmatory GC/MS
result showed 4690 ng/mL of methamphetamine and 1895 ng/mL of
amphetamine. Analysis of the specimen after derivatization with
S(-)-N-trifluoroacetylprolyl chloride showed only  the presence of
1-amphetamine and 1-methamphetamine. It was later learned that the
individual providing the specimen had been taking Selegiline.
Selegiline, (-) propynylmethamphetamine, is a monoamine oxidase
inhibitor used for the treatment of Parkinson's disease. It is sold
under the trade name Eldepryl. Its major metabolites are
1-methamphetamine, 1-amphetamine and N-desmethylselegiline. Urine
specimens from other Selegiline users were obtained and analyzed. A
characteristic metabolic pattern was noted, exemplified by a ratio of
1-methamphetamine to 1-amphetamine of about 2.8. This is in contrast
to what is observed in the urine of individuals who ingest pure
1-methamphetamine, such as with Vicks Inhaler, where the 1-
methamphetamine to 1-amphetamine ratio in the urine is usually greater
than 8. Caution is advised when interpreting methamphetamine results
without using a chiral identification technique.

Paper #4

Pharmacokinetic aspects of l-deprenyl (selegiline) and its
metabolites.
Heinonen EH, Anttila MI, Lammintausta RA
Farmos Research, Orion-Farmos Pharmaceuticals, Orion
Corporation, Turku, Finland.

Clin Pharmacol Ther, 56: 6 Pt 2, 1994 Dec, 742-9

 l-Deprenyl (selegiline), an irreversible and selective inhibitor
of monoamine oxidase type B (MAO-B), is rapidly absorbed from the
gastrointestinal tract  and distributed into tissues. The reaction
between MAO and selegiline takes place in two steps. The initial
reversible reaction is followed by an irreversible reaction in which
selegiline is bound covalently to the flavin part of the enzyme.
Studies with positron emission tomography have shown retention of
selegiline in brain areas with high MAO-B activity, including
striatal structures, hippocampus, thalamus, and substantia nigra.
Inhibition of MAO-B in vivo takes place rapidly; for example, platelet
MAO is inhibited almost totally within the first 60 minutes after a
single 10 mg oral dose of the drug. The recovery of MAO after
inhibition depends on the organ and species in question. In rat brain
the half-life of recovery in the brain is approximately 8 to 12 days;
in rat liver it is shorter, 1 to 3 days. Selegiline is metabolized
into l-(-)-desmethylselegiline, l-(-)-methamphetamine, and
l-(-)-amphetamine mainly in the liver through the microsomal P-450
system. The stereoselectivity of the metabolites is maintained; no
racemic transformation takes place. All three main metabolites are
found in human serum, cerebrospinal fluid, and urine, and
l-(-)-methamphetamine accounts for most of the metabolite
pool. The metabolites are excreted mainly via urine l-(-)-.
Desmethylselegiline has been shown to be an irreversible inhibitor of
MAO-B in the rat and in humans.


author: Daniel R Haney

subject: Re: New Deprenyl Abstracts - Fixed & Reposted in One File

text:
Aha!  Raw Meat!

Let's see if I get this right...
[my comments are in brackets.]

LEES95 paper:
	deprenyl plus L-dopa is a toxic mix.
	[Bad old news.]

SMITH94:
	L-dopa is itself toxic.
	[Induction: deprenyl increases L-dopa toxicity.]

ROMBERG95:
	deprenyl users will test positive for l-methedrine
	and l-amphetamine.  The metabolite distribution is
	smaller than that of l-methedrine users.

	[Fifth Amendment tramplers take heed.
	 Excretion is the better part of valor.]

HEINONEN94:
	MAO recovery after deprenyl cessation is slow
	in the rat.  Deprenyl metabolism is stereoselective
	and does not yield d-amphetamines.

	 	[WHAT HAVE I BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG?!!]

	The N-propargyl substituent in deprenyl is the primary
	agent in conferring MAOI activity.

CADET95:
	Superoxide dismutase is your friend.  It protects
	dopaminergic receptor assaulted by d-methamphetamine.
	[Delightful news.]
HIRATA95:
	Ditto.
	[Ditto.]

VORHEES94:
	In utero exposure to psychoactives may make the
	progeny mentally impaired.
	[This is a...um...no-brainer.]

GOFF93:
	Deprenyl is a waste of time in treating drug-induced
	tardive dyskinesia.

WOLF94:
	MAO-B recovery in humans after deprenyl withdrawal is
	very slow.

	[Is this not generally so for IRREVERSIBLE MAOI's?]

	Parkinson's Disease and Alzheimer's patients are over-medicated.
	[And now we have a pharmacokinetic basis for that statement.]

Sincerely,
Daniel R. Haney


text:
Are there any remaining defenders of the view that deprenyl provides a
viable treatment for Parkinson's disease or may prolong human life? If
so, could you please post and discuss your evidence? If not, is it too
much to ask that the article at http://www.ceri.com/deprenyl.htm be
immediately corrected, or taken down?

My best,

Steve Farmer


author: lizryan

subject: sinus lift and bone graft

text:
About nine months ago I had a sinus lift and bone graft done by an oral
surgeon.  I had to have
this done in order to have implants on my top left side.  I am supposed
to have the implants
put in sometimes this summer.  After the sinus lift and bone graft I
had several follow-up
checkups and xrays.  The bone graft was a success and I then had plenty
of bone for the
implants.
Well I thought everything was  going along great until last week.  I
started having a really
bad nasal discharge.  The discharge was a yellow green color and there
were small gray
granules in it.  This has been going on now for over a week.  I called
my oral surgeon's
office to get an appointment to find out what was going on but he is
out of the office
for the next 10 days.
Does anyone have any imput into my situation and what are the gray
granules?
Thanks.


author: JimSocal

subject: Re: sinus lift and bone graft

text:
On 18 Jun 2006 23:11:17 -0700, "lizryan" <[email]>
wrote:

Jeez... This is JUST what I want to hear, with my sinus lift and
implant surgery coming up in about 4 weeks...

Anyway, good luck!

I think if I were you I would get in to see another oral surgeon while
your regular guy is out of town. Maybe his office can refer you to
someone he respects?

Sounds like you may want to see someone asap!

Good luck!


author: Alexander Vasserman DDS

subject: Re: sinus lift and bone graft

text:
Pus and granules is not a good sign.
There is probably some infection going on and you should be on some
antibiotics ASAP or all will be lost.
Sometimes during a sinus lift there is a perforation of the membrane or
it could occur later during implant placement. It will more than likely
heal on its own but only after the infection is gone. Those particles
could be some of the graft material. The particle graft can look great
on the x-ray but it does not mean it vascularized with your regular
bone. In other words it could be just tightly packed particles that do
not stick to each other, but packed nicely to appear on the x-ray like
you have enough bone.
Oral surgeons have an emergency phone number you should contact your
surgeon to obtain a prescription for antibiotics.

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:


author: Steven Bornfeld

subject: Re: sinus lift and bone graft

text:
lizryan wrote:

	Obviously you're thinking the graft has come through the sinus
membrane, but while this seems obvious there's no way to tell.  I would
save some of these granules for him to see, though.

Steve


subject: Re: sinus lift and bone graft

text:
thanks for your reply- if the graft has gone through the membrane do
you have
any idea what caused it or how it could be corrected?
lizryan wrote:


author: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

subject: Re: sinus lift and bone graft

text:
lizryan wrote:

	No I don't.  The membrane is pretty thin, and after the sinus lift
there is nothing separating the sinus from the mouth but the membrane,
the graft tissue, and the sutured soft tissue overlying it.  I somtimes
wonder why these usually work--think of the pressures exerted on the
surgical site from a sneeze.
	I'm a general dentist.  I don't know that this is the graft coming out,
but obviously it must be checked.  If the surgeon has been following
this and there is clear evidence that the graft has succeeded I may be
totally wrong.  You may wish to check with your general dentist, who may
wish to start you on some antibiotic until you can see your surgeon, or
perhaps make a referral to an ENT specialist.

Steve


author: criton

subject: Foreign news: latest-

text:
In order to enhance the intelligence gathering capabilities over
Afghanistan the British Air Defence Ministry is seeking additional
emergency
funding from Nato to recommission a Chipmunk, currently on display in
an Air
Museum, that currently holds the world endurance record for covert
photographic surveys.  This will enhance current capabilities by 50%,
supplementing the two 50-year-old Canberras now taking pictures from
some nine miles up.

Edwina Arqufart, spokesperson from the Ministry said "This is so
exciting for us!  We even have photos of East German guards pointing
their rifles at the Chipmunk... and the original training livery will
obviously be retained for camouflage purposes since it worked so well
before..."

Earlier crews of the Chipmunk were ordered, in the event of being
brought down over (or around) Berlin, to land on a deserted road if
possible, and then to empty the planes' fuel tanks, setting fire to
the craft.  They would then deny all knowledge of the plane and its'
contents ("Hande hoch, schnell, schnell...", "I say, burning
aeroplane? What burning aeroplane?...").  Suitable landing sites are
being sought in Afghanistan but this appears to be problematic given
the shortage of good pubs, but Edwina is reported to be optimistic.

smoke bush, not afghanistan


author: Nic

subject: Re: Foreign news: latest-

text:
Did you hear the latest weather report for Afghanistan?
Extremely overcast and 5000F

"criton" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Foreign news: latest-

text:
Foreign news - latest:

"... and given the technical advances made since the Gulf War, cruise
missiles are now so accurate they can now hit the dead centre of a
large red cross..."

"... American aircraft manufacturer Boeing has announced a method to
increase an aircraft's range by designing their aircraft to jettison
superfluous equipment intermittently..."

"After the Defence Ministry's decision to recommission HMS Victory it
has been decided to search for 'nippers' and 'powder monkeys' amongst
British naval cadets.

Concerns were raised over the lack of cadets who were familiar with
the words of 'HMS Pinafore'.  However, a Ministry spokesperson said
that singing was not considered to be a priority but the ability to
drink was, and cadets were currently being trained for this.

Work is nearly completed on converting Victory's guns to fire cruise
missiles and navy scientists were pleased with the radar profile tests
conducted on Nelson's flagship.  "The radar clutter from Victory will
give the impression of an approaching fleet", said Rear Admiral Sir
John Ramsbottom, "so by sending one ship we should avoid the problem
of, say, a destroyer crossing a frigate's firepath".

Only one surviving relative of Nelson's has been found to captain the
vessel.  Edith Frogworth, 87, of Our Lady's Rest Home, Bournemouth,
said she was happy to have the day out."

smoke bush, not afghanistan


subject: Re: Foreign news: latest-

text:
"... Diana Ross has apparently been criticised for being reluctant to
fly Concorde..."

One wonders why?  And remember what was said about free seats?  Maybe
the Brits aren't fed sh*t after all?  Can anyone give share movements
for Carlyle(?) this year?


author: Skybuck Flying

subject: Secret information encoded in microsoft software menu's ?

text:
Hello,

Something strange is going on with Microsoft Outlook Express and Internet
Explorer 8.0

The top of browser menu seems to shade from light gray to slightly darker
light gray.

However when changing the hue/saturation color levels in Adobe Photoshop CS
3.0... it can be seen that there are little blocks visible and these are not
distributed equally...

It seems like a hidden watermark/pattern.

If so then beware when making printouts of webbrowsers and other microsoft
software ! ;)

Bye,
  Skybuck.


author: Ilmari Karonen

subject: Re: Secret information encoded in microsoft software menu's ?

text:
On 2009-09-14, Skybuck Flying <[email]> wrote:

Did you save the screenshot in JPEG format?  That's a lossy image
compression format that introduces small, normally invisible
compression artifacts that look like "little blocks".

I don't have IE8 installed on my computer (and I'd have to go to some
trouble to get it installed, given that I'm running Linux), but I
looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_Explorer_8.png in
an image editor.  The only part of that image where I see any "little
blocks" is in the gray gradient behind the Wikipedia logo, which is
indeed a JPEG-compressed background image.


text:
Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hello Skybuck:

The frequently flawed Outlook Express is no longer supported and you
should have upgraded to Windows Live Mail long ago:

                 <http://download.live.com/wlmail>

Many still find IE8 problematic.  Better yet, supersede both with
Mozilla's Thunderbird & Firefox respectively.


text:
I noticed IE 8.0 hangs sometimes at certain websites kinda sux...

Bye,
  Skybuck.


text:
Skybuck Flying wrote:

It may not be too late to go back to IE7.  However, sometimes a second
browser is a very good thing to have.


author: Chaos Master

subject: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
Hello people

Does someone here have a datasheet of 8272A IC, used in Floppy Drives?
Googling just gives Linux stuff. I've read that uPD765 is compatible but am
unsure.

Thanks


author: octavio cintolesi

subject: Re: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
Refer to Intel Microcontroller Databook

  8272 Floppy Disk Controller.

  Regards,
  Octavio Cintolesi
  R&D Engineer

  "Chaos Master" <[email]> escribiï¿½ en el mensaje
news:[email]...
am


author: Matthieu Benoit

subject: Re: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
it must be in the Microsystem Components Handbook Microprocessors
and Peripherals Volume II 1985 page 5-444 ;
AN available p.5-463 and 5-504
I am sorry but I have only the Volume I ;
you must find some that have it!
MB
Chaos Master wrote:


author: petrus bitbyter

subject: Re: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
"Chaos Master" <[email]> schreef in bericht
news:[email]...
am

Intel 8272 and uPD765 are compatibel. Some sourcrs for the 8272:

http://info.elf.stuba.sk/packages/pub/pc/text/8272-fdc.zip

ftp://ftp.sac.sk/pub/sac/text/8272-fdc.zip

petrus

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 10-4-2004


subject: Re: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
octavio cintolesi ([email]) said those last words:

I don't have this databook. In fact I have never found any databooks (here in
Brazil they're hard to come), all my datasheet reading is done online.

[]s


author: Franc Zabkar

subject: Re: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 00:47:15 -0300, Chaos Master
<[email]> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/P8272.pdf

- Franc Zabkar


subject: Re: Datasheet of 8272A

text:
Franc Zabkar ([email]) said those last words:

I will take a look at this, many thanks.

[]s


author: ayaz

subject: conspiracy by police to defraud the global film industry

text:
hi,

i reported to the police that a shop (m&s premier on wright road,
washwood heath, birmingham, uk) was selling counterfeit dvds of the
latest films from hollywood and elsewhere. after several months, the
shop is continuing to sell these dvds.

why would the police allow this to continue? are they part of the
profit chain?


author: V-for-Vendicar

subject: Re: conspiracy by police to defraud the global film industry

text:
"ayaz" <[email]> wrote

  It's all part of the global conspiracy.


author: CWatters

text:
"ayaz" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

You should contact Trading Standards.


author: probleman

subject: Exact solution of y' ' (x) - k*y(x)*( 1 - (y ' (x) )^4) = 0

text:
Hi;

I tried all the methods that I know and learned yet, but I could not
find it. If it is possible I want to know whether there exists an exact
solution of the equation y' ' (x) - k*y(x)*( 1 - (y ' (x) )^4) = 0 or
not.

Thanking you in advance and I'm looking forward to hearing from you
soon... Ali KONURALP


author: A N Niel

subject: Re: Exact solution of y' ' (x) - k*y(x)*( 1 - (y ' (x) )^4) = 0

text:
In article <[email]>,
probleman <[email]> wrote:

Maple gives two implicit solutions like this:

     /y(x)
    |                 /    / 2        \\
    |         -1 + exp\2 k \z  + 2 _C1//
    |      --------------------------------- dz = x
    |                                  (1/2)
   /b      /        /    / 2        \\\
           \-1 + exp\4 k \z  + 2 _C1///

where _C1 and b are arbitrary constants...


author: C W

text:
probleman wrote:

Your equation also satisfies :

(y')^2 = 1/(-c^2+exp(k*y(x)^2))/(c^2+exp(k*y(x)^2))*(c^4+exp(k*y(x)^2)^2) for
some constant c.

Chris


author: Kofi

subject: The role of nitric oxide and the EPO receptor in preconditioning

text:
J Neurosci Res. 2010 Nov 1;88(14):3180-8.

Up-regulation of erythropoietin receptor by nitric oxide mediates
hypoxia preconditioning.
Chen ZY, Wang L, Asavaritkrai P, Noguchi CT.
Molecular Medicine Branch, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive
and Kidney Diseases, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland
20892-1822, USA.

Erythropoietin (Epo), known to stimulate erythroid progenitor cell
survival, proliferation, and differentiation, has been shown to be
neuroprotective against brain ischemia in animal models. Both Epo and
Epo receptor (EpoR) are expressed in the brain and are up-regulated by
hypoxia. Brain Epo signaling can stimulate neural cell survival and
prevent neuron apoptosis. Neurons from EpoR null mice exhibit marked
increased sensitivity to hypoxia. In endothelial cells, Epo has been
shown to stimulate nitric oxide (NO) production, particularly at low
pO(2). We found here that the EpoR expression on neural cells and Epo's
neuroprotective effect were regulated by NO. Hypoxia increased NO
production as well as EpoR expression, and inhibition of NOS activity
reduced the proportion of EpoR-expressing neurons induced at low pO(2).
Conversely, addition of NO donor to cultures grown under normoxia
induced EpoR. Similarly, NO donor increased EpoR promoter activity in a
reporter gene assay, suggesting that NO regulates EpoR at the
transcription level. Preincubation of neurons with NO results in
induction of EpoR, which gives rise to protection against hypoxia even
in the absence of exogenous Epo, although at high concentration NO is
toxic. These data provide evidence of a role for NO in Epo activity in
brain and suggest links between NO production, EpoR expression, and Epo
signaling in neuroprotection.

PMID: 20806411


author: tower

subject: Re: The role of nitric oxide and the EPO receptor in preconditioning

text:
The average human brain contains 100 billion neurons and tens of
billions of neuroglia, with an average daily loss of 200,000 neurons.
There is some evidence hypoxia is good and can be highly tolerated,
and with neurogenesis we improve the circuits of our adult brains,
unlike during adolescence in pruning when we lose 66% of the circuits
to forget useless information from childhood. I guess the glia get
better from chronic oxidative stress after the circuits are already
pruned.

Regulatory and regenerative purpose
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning
The purpose of synaptic pruning is believed to be to remove
unnecessary neuronal structures from the brain; as the human brain
develops, the need to understand more complex structures becomes much
more pertinent, and simpler associations formed at childhood are
thought to be replaced by complex structures.[1]

Despite the fact it has several connotations with regulation of
cognitive childhood development, pruning is thought to be a process of
removing neurons which may have become damaged or degraded in order to
further improve the "networking" capacity of a particular area of the
brain.[1] Furthermore, it has been stipulated that the mechanism not
only works in regard to development and reparation, but also as a
means of continually maintaining more efficient brain function by
removing neurons by their synaptic efficiency.[1]
[edit] During maturation phases in humans

In terms of humans, synaptic pruning has been observed through the
inference of differences in the estimated numbers of glial cells and
neurons between children and adults, which differs greatly in the area
of the mediodorsal thalamus.

In a study conducted in 2007 by Oxford University, it was found that
by comparing 8 newborn human brains with those of 8 adult brains using
estimates based upon size and gathering from stereological
fractionation[2], showed that on average, adult neuron estimates were
41% lower than those of the newborn. [3][4]

However, in terms of glial cells, adults had far larger estimates than
those in newborns; 36.3 million on average in adult brains, compared
to 10.6 million in the newborn samples.[3][4] The structure of the
brain is thought to change when degeneration and deafferentation occur
in postnatal situations, although these phenomena have not been
observed in some studies[5]. In the case of development, neurons which
are in the process of loss via programmed cell death are unlikely to
be re-used, but rather replaced by new neuronal structures or synaptic
structures, and have been found to occur alongside the structural
change in the sub-cortical gray matter.

http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~gurney/BrainRes.html
Alkon, Daniel (1989)

Pattern storage or memory formation is formed and stored when a group
of pieces or elements are associated in time. The formation appears to
involve a sequence of molecular changes at specific locations in
systems of neurons. The receptivity of neuronal sites may be enhanced
by the migration of a protein (kinase C = PKC). The protein moves from
the cytoplasm to the membrane, altering neuron properties so that
particular input signals trigger impulses more readily. It reflects
the distribution within each neuron and each neuron system of those
sites that have had their excitability permanently enhanced through
memory formation. It takes place in the neural branches or dendritic
trees, which receive incoming signals. A single neuron can receive
100,000 to 200,000 signals from the fibers ending on its dendritic
tree. Any given sensory pattern probably stimulates a percentage of
sites on a tree; therefore it may store an almost endless number of
patterns without saturating the system's capacity.

Learning and memory can be traced to a neural system and to the
cellular changes that are possible for behavioral changes. The
repeated association of stimuli causes a persistent change in the
neurons: the flow of potassium ions through channels in the membranes
is reduced.

It is the potassium-ion flow and the concomitant flow of other ions
that enable nerve cells to conduct electrical impulses.

The reduction of potassium-ion flow, which is said to change the
"weight" of electrical signals within neural systems, lasts at least
many days and probably much longer. The ion-flow changes seem to
result from the movement of the calcium sensitive enzyme PKC. The
enzyme acts by adding phosphate groups to protein substrates. The PKC
pathway may be well suited for memory storage because it seems to have
the potential to trigger cellular change in even longer and permanent
time domains.

Aksnes, H. (1996). Meaning Generation in Music listening. At
[email]. Internet: Norway.

Meaning is internalized; it is not dependent on language.

Music cognition involves an inconceivable amount of heterogeneous
associations that will contribute to the import of meaning no matter
which aspect of cognition a listener chooses to focus. Although we pay
attention to only one or a few things at a time, our understanding of
what we are paying attention to, is partly determined by aspects of
cognition that we are not aware of at the time.

The thalamus and the basal ganglia are the areas of the brain
responsible for the direction of attention. They are tightly connected
with the limbic system and frontal cortices responsible for emotions.
We tend to direct our attention towards that which means the most to
us personally.

J Neurosci. 2010 Sep 22;30(38):12653-63.

Intermittent hypoxia promotes hippocampal neurogenesis and produces
antidepressant-like effects in adult rats.

Zhu XH, Yan HC, Zhang J, Qu HD, Qiu XS, Chen L, Li SJ, Cao X, Bean JC,
Chen LH, Qin XH, Liu JH, Bai XC, Mei L, Gao TM. Department of Anatomy
and Neurobiology, Southern Medical University, and Department of
Radiation Oncology, Nanfang Hospital, Guangzhou 510515, China.
[email]

Increasing evidence indicates that stimulating hippocampal
neurogenesis could provide novel avenues for the treatment of
depression, and recent studies have shown that in vitro neurogenesis
is enhanced by hypoxia. The aim of this study was to investigate the
potential regulatory capacity of an intermittent hypobaric hypoxia
(IH) regimen on hippocampal neurogenesis and its possible
antidepressant-like effect. Here, we show that IH promotes the
proliferation of endogenous neuroprogenitors leading to more newborn
neurons in hippocampus in adult rats. Importantly, IH produces
antidepressant-like effects in multiple animal models screening for
antidepressant activity, including the forced swimming test, chronic
mild stress paradigm, and novelty-suppressed feeding test. Hippocampal
x-ray irradiation blocked both the neurogenic and behavioral effects
of IH, indicating that IH likely produces antidepressant-like effects
via promoting neurogenesis in adult hippocampus. Furthermore, IH
stably enhanced the expression of BDNF in hippocampus; both the
antidepressant-like effect and the enhancement of cell proliferation
induced by IH were totally blocked by pharmacological and biological
inhibition of BDNF-TrkB (tyrosine receptor kinase B) signaling,
suggesting that the neurogenic and antidepressant-like effects of IH
may involve BDNF signaling. These observations might contribute to
both a better understanding of physiological responses to IH and to
developing IH as a novel therapeutic approach for depression. PMID:
20861371


text:
Well, I find contradictory evidence here, I guess there are equal
numbers of glia and neurons. Maybe the neuron are supporting the glia
and I have it all wrong.

J Comp Neurol. 2009 Apr 10;513(5):532-41.

Equal numbers of neuronal and nonneuronal cells make the human brain
an isometrically scaled-up primate brain.

Azevedo FA, Carvalho LR, Grinberg LT, Farfel JM, Ferretti RE, Leite
RE, Jacob Filho W, Lent R, Herculano-Houzel S. Instituto de Ciências
Biomédicas, Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro, Cidade
Universitária, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

The human brain is often considered to be the most cognitively capable
among mammalian brains and to be much larger than expected for a
mammal of our body size. Although the number of neurons is generally
assumed to be a determinant of computational power, and despite the
widespread quotes that the human brain contains 100 billion neurons
and ten times more glial cells, the absolute number of neurons and
glial cells in the human brain remains unknown. Here we determine
these numbers by using the isotropic fractionator and compare them
with the expected values for a human-sized primate. We find that the
adult male human brain contains on average 86.1 +/- 8.1 billion NeuN-
positive cells ("neurons") and 84.6 +/- 9.8 billion NeuN-negative
("nonneuronal") cells. With only 19% of all neurons located in the
cerebral cortex, greater cortical size (representing 82% of total
brain mass) in humans compared with other primates does not reflect an
increased relative number of cortical neurons. The ratios between
glial cells and neurons in the human brain structures are similar to
those found in other primates, and their numbers of cells match those
expected for a primate of human proportions. These findings challenge
the common view that humans stand out from other primates in their
brain composition and indicate that, with regard to numbers of
neuronal and nonneuronal cells, the human brain is an isometrically
scaled-up primate brain. PMID:19226510


author: Jed Rothwell

subject: LENR-CANR.org activity is encouraging

text:
The http://lenr-canr.org/ web page is devoted to cold fusion, which is
ostensibly the topic of this newsgroup. Activity on LENR-CANR.org fell
during the Thanksgiving holiday, but it has recovered nicely:

Week, Downloads, Visitors
10/12/2002, 373, 331
10/19/2002, 433, 472
10/26/2002, 574, 395
11/2/2002, 532, 359
11/9/2002, 738, 792
11/16/2002, 1,111, 573
11/23/2002, 1,146, 670
11/30/2002, 1,022, 696

Recent daily totals:

Date, Downloads, Visitors
12/1, 117, 151
12/2, 545, 249
12/3, 503, (unknown)

The total for this week is 1,165, which already exceeds any previous week.
We are back on track to pulling even with Scientific American's newsstand
distribution by April 2003. (Sci. Am. sells 36,000 newsstand issues per
week, which they claim is the largest circulation of any scientific magazine
or journal). As I explained to a group of cold fusion researchers the other
day:

"If the present growth of LENR-CANR continues, we will reach the newsstand
circulation of the Scientific American four to six months from now. It will
be as if every issue of the Scientific American includes a positive paper
about cold fusion. Try to imagine the impact that would have."

We have distributed 7,200 papers in the last two months. There is no telling
how many downloaded copies have been e-mailed to other people. Sooner or
later, all these copies floating around the world are bound to have a
positive effect.

I have prepared papers by Arata, Ohmori, Mizuno and Dash for uploading. I am
waiting for corrections and proofreading by the authors.

Please note, my e-mail address has changed to:

[email] or [email] (if the topic is
cold fusion)

(It is probably a bad idea to post this here where I may lure spammers, but
my anti-spam software including Mailwasher is now so airtight, I seldom see
messages. The spammers are all hit with  messages saying my address is
defunct. It is almost a pleasure watching them get whacked.)

- Jed


author: Kirk Shanahan

subject: Re: LENR-CANR.org activity is encouraging

text:
"Jed Rothwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3decea6f$[email]

It's a well-known fact that incorrect work brings the most citations.
Of course, one does have to get the bad paper to be able to cite it...

---
Kirk Shanahan   {My opinions...noone else's}  (ROFL)


text:
Kirk Shanahan writes:

Is it? I have never heard of this well known fact. Do you have evidence for
this assertion? Perhaps you think that citiation indexes are established to
weed out incorrect papers -- those with the most citations.

- Jed


author: Mike Staker

text:
Shanahan's shenanigans have gone far enough.  There is a well-known saying,
if you donï¿½t have something positive to say, then donï¿½t say it.  We are sick
of hearing you tell us that cold fusion is an error.  It is not.  There is
good science in cold fusion and I suggest you do something positve for a
change and go look for it.  The fact that you cannot see anything poitive is
a poor reflection on yourself.

We do not mind if you constructively criticize scientific work, but this
last post of yours is unprofessional. You may not realize it but you
constantly make assumptions and then follow with a comment (based on the
assumption).  You are making an assumptions that most people who download
will see these papers as bad science.  This is wrong assumption, and it
makes me sad to see a professional do such things.
Mike Staker

Kirk Shanahan wrote:


text:
"Jed Rothwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3ded22e6$[email]

Probably because you never considered becoming a professor.

Nope, it's an anecdote, kinda like the Mizuno bucket thing.

Gosh, is _that_ what they're for?

---
Kirk Shanahan   {my opinions...noone else's}  (still ROFL)


text:
"Mike Staker" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]
Somewhat out of order:

What makes me sad is a 'professional' who steps up and says "I
did it and it's real!", and then who refuses to go further.  Where's
your data Mike?

Rhyming! I love it!

Yes it is!  Yes it is!

Actually, there is at least reasonable science involved in the data
acquisition aspects.  They blow it when it comes to interpretation,
since they are fixated on a nuclear explanation.

Am I relfecting better now??

You may not realize it, but that last post was a troll, and you took
it hook, line, and sinker.  Didn't you see the "ROFL"?

And you're assuming they won't.  Seems were equal here.  But actually,
you're probably right.  The majority of people who are still interested
in CF are fringe science afficionados who want to believe.

---

Kirk Shanahan   {My opinions...noone else's}  (still ROFL)


text:
Kirk Shanahan writes:

Neither statement is an anecdote. An anecdote is:

"1. A short account of an interesting or humorous incident.
2. Secret or hitherto undivulged particular of history or biography."

- American Heritage

Your statement is a generality, not particular to any one set of citations.
Mizuno's account was long & detailed, not short, and not humorous or secret.

- Jed


text:
re.

Kirk Shanahan wrote (in part):

______________________-
 1.  Please define ROFL.  Just so those of us who do not know it
can follow you.

2. Please explain to us the motive for this (according to your
assumption, just to humor you a bit) devotion, if not for
seeing and understanding perhaps something you've
missed in the interpretations?  Of course, one way out of it
is to yell mistake, fraud, deception, stupidity etc.  I suggest
it does not make sense to cling to an interpretation that
many "mainstream" scientists reject (out of hand), unless
there is a substantial breakthrough revealed subtly there.
But you know this?
Mike


text:
"Jed Rothwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3dee3cb8$[email]

The full anecdote goes like this:

University profs, all ranks, are discussing what it takes to get tenure.
One suggests that number of citations be used as a criterion.  Another
reponds that one of his most cited papers was where he made a mistake
and published it.  Everybody laughs (the humor...) and they go on to
other ways to tell if a particular prof would be good 'tenure' material.

And I thought the Mizuno thing was pretty funny...

Actually I guess it was your insistance that it was an 'experiment'.

---
Kirk Shanahan  {My opinions...noone else's} (recovering from ROFL)


text:
"Mike Staker" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]

ROFL = rolling on the floor laughing
IMO = in my opinion
IMHO = in my humble opion
BTW = by the way

shorthand, sorry you didn't realize.  There's also emoticons:

:) :-) ;) =:( :{ etc.  (look at them sideways)

The devotion to watching the CF field?  I work with gas loading of
all these materials, using D and T and mixes thereof.  Soon, I will
have an apparatus (I hope) to load to 15000 psi or higher with pure
T.  I don't like the idea that I may a) have my apparatus go "pop",
and b) may get irradiated unknowingly by neutrons or gammas.  There
are more people at my site who would be subjected to the same
concerns.  I need to know if it's real.  And to be honest, while my
contemporaries don't believe it, none could tell me why.  Now I
know a lot more about the field, and why I need not lose sleep.

The motive for the original post in this thread was to remind Jed
that citation stats are really not very important.  It's nice he
has uploaded all these papers, but they don't bring anything new to
the table (usually, the CR-39 stuff being an exception).

Exactly!  So why do the cold fusioneers persist?  Hard to understand.
I suppose that's part of the 'devotion'.

On the other hand, I do contend there is a unique chemical process
ongoing in some electrolysis cells that produes artifactual excess
heat, so there is something real there by my book.  It's just not
nuclear.

---
Kirk Shanahan  {My opinions...noone else's}


text:
Kirk Shanahan writes:

That would be a joke, or humorous story. People used to call jokes
"anecdotes" but I think that use of the word is old fashioned. In a
scientific context, it is likely to be confused with the term "anecdotal
evidence" which has taken on a new sense not defined in ordinary
dictionaries.

Then you have no clue how basic physics works. I do not find you a bit
funny. You are pathetically ignorant when you ridicule or dispute undeniable
evidence such as Mizuno's heat after death and Iwamura's transmutations. You
contrive nonsensical "theories" to dismiss these things, which are always
wrong for dozens of blatantly obvious reasons. This isn't funny either. It
is incredible that people as ignorant as you and Richard Schultz manage to
get PhDs in science, and it is sickening that other so-called "skeptics"
never point out your blunders.

Of course it was an experiment! Instruments were used, a record was kept,
and it demonstrated beyond any possible error that heat was generated orders
of magnitude beyond the limits of chemistry. This is a quintessential
experiment, far superior to most. The results are fundamental and obvious.
You probably dismiss it because it did not require sophisticated
instruments; only a bucket marked in liters and a thermocouple (or the sense
of touch). Dismissing this is like dismissing Franklin's kite experiment
because he did not use a voltmeter. He charged the key on the kite string,
and used the key to charge the capacitor. That, combined with his lightning
rod experiments, proved that lighting is electricity. Like the Mizuno
experiment, the kite experiment was hazardous, and was only replicated a few
times. As I recall, it was performed in France once. The second attempt was
in Germany and the researcher was killed by a lighting strike. Runaway
heat-after-death CF reactions have caused extreme, palpable heat, melted
materials and explosions on three occasions that I know of. A person who
deliberately sets out to cause such a reaction with a larger hydride sample
(more than a few grams) would be suicidal, in my opinion.

- Jed


author: James Salsman

subject: Shanahan's gambit

text:
Kirk Shanahan <[email]> wrote:

Aha!  So, the truth comes out!  This is a far, far cry from the post

  http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9acdab21.0207220908.2aace1c5%40posting.google.com

less than half a year ago where you, Dr. Shanahan, said that you were,
"tapped out on CF and I think I'm going to try to exit the scene,"
after I suggested you try the very low-cost confirmatory apparatus at:

  http://www.bovik.org/codeposition/best.gif

If you followed the discussion here about deuteron angular momenta,
you should realize that the apparatus going "pop" is far more likely
than fast neutrons or gamma radiation.

Are you saying that there are people's lives at stake, and you have
told them that there is nothing to be worried about?  You are willing
to risk your and their lives on your statistical navel-gazing without
even trying the least expensive emperical confirmatory experiment known?

You have not yet even postulated here any possible causes of the moving
heat source you hypothesized in the post cited above, upon which your
theory, and apparently your colleagues well-being, depends.  Are you
going to leave that thread dangling?  What kind of heat source could
mysteriously move back and forth between calibration and test runs?

Do you not count Jerry J. Smith, at U.S. D.o.E. Germantown, the
highest-ranking pertinent government authority outside of the military,
as your contemporary?

Who carries the insurance policy at Savannah River?  I would like to
make sure I am divested of them while you are on staff.

P.S.  To Jed Rothwell:  What is your URL for Szpak et al.'s article
in _Fusion Technology_, vol. 36, pp. 234 (1999)?

Best wishes,
James Salsman


text:
Kirk Shanahan writes:

A "real" process cannot produce an artifact, by definition. An artifact is
an instrument error, or a "systematic" error, that would occur in a control
run. ("System" in this case means the instruments, test tubes and so on.) CF
heat cannot be a systematic error because many different systems have been
used to verify it. It would have to whole collection of systematic errors.
You dreamed up an error that supposedly affects a flow calorimeter
(described in ShanahanKapossiblec.pdf), but obviously, even if this error
existed, it would not "explain away" the heat measured with Seebeck
calorimeters, isoperibolic calorimeters, melting ceramics, external heat
sensor of various types, and so on.

Perhaps you mean that a chemical process somehow fools the instruments in a
unique way, by distributing the hot water in some impossible configuration
never detected heretofore. Taubes postulated that cold fusion electrolysis
causes fluid on one side of a test tube to be 50 deg C hotter than on the
other side. Obviously that is impossible, but in any case, it is the kind of
imaginary "artifact" you need, if only pigs could fly.

Of course, none of these imaginary artifacts can explain the x-rays,
transmutations, tritium, neutrons and other nuclear evidence produced by
cold fusion, but if you try real hard, and wish upon a star, you will
persuade yourself none of this other evidence exists either.

Oh sure. Tritium and x-rays aren't nuclear!

- Jed


text:
"Jed Rothwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3dee6619$[email]

{snip}

Gosh.  Call me old-fashioned then.

{snip}

I wan't referring to the physics.  I was thinking of a guy running
across a campus with a steel thingy in a bucket, putting that bucket
in an abandoned decrepit building, and thereby initiating one of the
biggest rat parties of all time!  Has me ROFL.

The proposed physics is actually pretty sad.

The key is that I don't dispute the 'evidence', I dispute the
interpretation, and the jump to conclusion made with insufficient
evidence.
Two separate aspects typically present in every CF claim.

State them.  Make sure you demonstrate that you understand my proposals.
Typically your comments show a distinct lack of that.  The best way to
show
that is to correctly restate, in your own words, the proposal basics you
are objecting to.

In general, that's because they can't.  Neither can you.  You can (and
do)
however, construct your own flawed strawmen that vaguely resemble my
proposals, and then easily (as expected for a strawman) show them to be
'wrong'.  Bravo, but of what relevance to the issue is that process?

Oh, this must be that new dictionary of yours.  My definition of
'experiment'
usually includes a modicum of control, collection of all the pertinent
data, and insertion of control elements when they are needed.

Your strawman is incorrect.  Also, this again demonstrates your
'unteachableness'.  Go back and reread my objections.

Right (the 'dismissing this' comparison).  Franklin however didn't have
multiple potential causes of the effect.  Mizuno did.  Big difference.

Interesting but irrelevant.

Hydrogen/oxygen explosions (or just rapid burning).  Yes, safety is a
must,
all the time.  That's why I started studying the CF field...

---
Kirk Shanahan              {My opinions...noone else's}


subject: Re: Shanahan's gambit

text:
"James Salsman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:ytVI9.679$[email]

| Kirk Shanahan <[email]> wrote:

| > ... I work with gas loading of
| > all these materials, using D and T and mixes thereof.  Soon, I will
| > have an apparatus (I hope) to load to 15000 psi or higher with pure
| > T.  I don't like the idea that I may a) have my apparatus go "pop",
| > and b) may get irradiated unknowingly by neutrons or gammas....

| Aha!  So, the truth comes out!  This is a far, far cry from the post

|
|
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9acdab21.0207220908.2aace1c5%40posting
| .google.com

| less than half a year ago where you, Dr. Shanahan, said that you were,
| "tapped out on CF and I think I'm going to try to exit the scene,"

Yep, it is sad I keep coming back isn't it.  I guess I need to try
harder.
However, when a 'new' set of data is presented that is so "marvelous" it
proves CF 'beyond a shadow of a doubt', I feel obligated to look.
Within
a day, I had read the paper and understood how my explanation of 'CF'
could account for the new data.  Subsequently, a couple of days later I
came up with what I think might be an even better explanation.

| after I suggested you try the very low-cost confirmatory apparatus at:

|   http://www.bovik.org/codeposition/best.gif

| If you followed the discussion here about deuteron angular momenta,
| you should realize that the apparatus going "pop" is far more likely
| than fast neutrons or gamma radiation.

Doesn't matter, all of the above are bad for me.

| > There are more people at my site who would be subjected to the same
| > concerns.  I need to know if it's real....

| Are you saying that there are people's lives at stake, and you have
| told them that there is nothing to be worried about?  You are willing
| to risk your and their lives on your statistical navel-gazing without
| even trying the least expensive emperical confirmatory experiment
known?

Yup.  And people's lives are at stake only if 'CF' is real.  I have
studied the phenomenon, and while I think there is a real FPHE, it is
not going to produce radiation or excess heat.  By the way, I only used
statistics in the most general sense in my examination of excess heat.
In reality, I used simple algebra to show what a simple heat source
location change could do, and then I noted no one has ever proven that
isn't the correct view.  That leaves the explanation of the CF effect
in the normal, understandable realm of chemistry and physics.  There
is no significant reason to think otherwise.  If anyone _has_ such a
reason however, they need to publicize it so I can respond.  There are
people on this group who claim such data but won't publicize it.

Also, you have no clue how much it would cost me to try to replicate
the effect.  Furthermore, this would be done with the full expectation
of showing nothing.  I don't consider that a good use of taxpayer's
money.  Actually, I have thought hard about a possible economic benefit
from the FPHE.  However, I can't find one, so the motivation remains 0.

| You have not yet even postulated here any possible causes of the
moving
| heat source you hypothesized in the post cited above, upon which your
| theory, and apparently your colleagues well-being, depends.  Are you
| going to leave that thread dangling?  What kind of heat source could
| mysteriously move back and forth between calibration and test runs?

I have. Many times.  Recombination at the cathode (or maybe the anode).
Normal recombination, not electrochemical.  Stimulated by a 'special
active surface state', to borrow a phrase.  Szpak has photographed
the process.

| > And to be honest, while my contemporaries don't believe it, none
| > could tell me why....

| Do you not count Jerry J. Smith, at U.S. D.o.E. Germantown, the
| highest-ranking pertinent government authority outside of the
military,
| as your contemporary?

No.

{snip}
---
Kirk Shanahan   {My opinions...noone else's}


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Shanahan's gambit

text:
In article <ytVI9.679$[email]>, James Salsman <[email]> wrote:

: If you followed the discussion here about deuteron angular momenta,
: you should realize that the apparatus going "pop" is far more likely
: than fast neutrons or gamma radiation.

I'm sorry, I missed that part.  The only part of that discussion that I
remember clearly is the part where you revealed that you didn't know what
you were talking about, and refused under any circumstances to increase your
understanding to the point where you would be.

-----
Richard Schultz                              [email]
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . .Mr Schutz [sic] acts like a functional electro-terrorist who
impeads [sic] scientific communications with his too oft-silliness."
   -- Mitchell Swartz, sci.physics.fusion article <[email]>


subject: Re: Shanahan's gambit

text:
James Salsman writes:

Do you mean:

Szpak, S., P.A. Mosier-Boss, and M. Miles, Calorimetry of the Pd+D
codeposition. Fusion Technol., 1999. 36: p. 234.

We do not have that one. I wish we did. If you talk with Miley or Szpak ask
them for an electronic copy and permission to reprint it.

- Jed


text:
"Jed Rothwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]

You've heard the definition of a weed right?  A plant out of place.  An
artifact is an 'out-of-place' system response, i.e. at some uncontrolled
point of time, the system does the unexpected.  Just as a weed is a real
plant, an artifact _is_ a real system response.  But, it originates from
an unexpected cause.  This is one of those 'new' definitions you were
mentioning that "has taken on a new sense not defined in ordinary
dictionaries".  It actually is a specific definition coming out of the
quality control field.  The point is that a "real" process can (and
does)
produce artifacts.

With an old process, the artifact is not normally due to unknown
chemistry
(unless feed streams have changed unexpectedly).  In a new process, like
the study of electrolysis was when F&P began, artifacts may be due to
unrecognized chemistry or physics, as opposed to 'simple' equipment
failure.

Remember that 'and so on' covers everything else that can influence the
system responses you are recording.  That's usally a bigger list that
most
people realize.

As I have said, the calibration constant shift error is applicable to
ANY
method that uses a calibration curve, not just mass flow calorimetry.
It
is simply a mathematical fact, which is expressed verbally as "If you
intend to work up your data with equation 'A', you had better be sure
'A'
applies."

And no, it doesn't take a whole collection.  It takes a calibration
constant shift, which is one thing.

As I've said many times before (you are proving your "unteachableness"
again), if there is a real chemical process occurring in the CF cell
that causes a calibration constant shift (and I _postulate_ there is),
then it _should_ appear in all calorimeters.  However, since it is
calorimeter design dependent, it will manifest at different levels in
different calorimeters.  The fact that the FPHE is observed in many
calorimeters is not proof it is based in nuclear processes.

You're almost there Jed!  Yes, my postulate to produce a calibration
constant shift is a redistribution of heat production points in the
cell.  That _would_ produce different flows of hot water.  The only
problem with your explanation above is the word "impossible".
Substitute "possible" (or just drop it altogether) and you're very
close to an actual technical description of what causes the FPHE.

(And you've anthropomorphized the instruments.  They can't get 'fooled'
as
they are unintelligent.  Substitute 'affects'.)

I really could care less what Taubes said.  That is just a distraction.
I don't need imaginary artifacts, there are lots of real ones to use.

Manual: How to Get a Pig to Fly

1.) Buy airline ticket.
2.) Strap pig in.

There, you see, so easy...

Hypering, heat exposure, alone or together.

Misinterpreted spectra.

LSC interference effects from other trace contaminants,  actual
accidental
tritium contamination, alone or together.

Specifically haven't looked at this, as it's not something I've used
much,
and since others seemed to have discounted these results based on
similar
concerns to things mentioned above.  Basically, the problem is the
generic
one of trying to measure neutron counts at or near background.  An
inherently difficult task.  I can say I've never seen enough data
published
to convince me that problem was overcome.  (By the way, some X-ray
results
were reported via instrumentation as opposed to film (which is what I
addressed above).  Those studies are subject to the same problems
neutron
detection has when done electronically.)

Such as?

Oh yeah, He.  Bad mass spectrometry.

Anything else?

So cite it and 'prove me wrong'.

Of course they are.  They just aren't present in CF cells.  (Go ahead!
Make my day!  Prove me wrong on that!)

---
Kirk Shanahan  {My opinions...noone else's}


subject: Re: Shanahan's gambit

text:
Kirk Shanahan wrote, in reply to my comment:

Here's a reason:  gas volume/pressure measurements have been done as
part of most calorimetry since 1991.

How could www.bovik.org/codeposition/best.gif cost more than $1000?

Oh?!  And what, you'll do it again and again until it shows nothing?

Look at it this way, if it shows nothing, then that means you and your
coworkers aren't going to incur a huge taxpayer expense to have your
guts scraped off the ceiling.  If you see an effect, then you might want
to stand in the next county when you flip the switch.

How could chemical recombination change location between control and
experimental configurations?

Assuming that there is some such way, it is trivial to detect any such
variable recombination by measuring the volume (or pressure, for closed
cells) of the output gasses.  Miles and Bush (Naval Air Warfare Center,
China Lake) were recommending evaluation of output gas volume as early
as their 1991 paper, "Calorimetric Principles and Problems in Pd-D2O
Electrolysis," from the Third International Conference on Cold Fusion.

Best wishes,
James


subject: Re: Shanahan's gambit

text:
Richard Schultz wrote, in reply to my comment:

I do know what I am talking about.  I am talking about how rapidly the
protons bound to neutrons, the deuterons, are rotating with respect to
each other when they fuse, and the effect that momentum has on the
dynamics and products of the fusion reaction.

Do you or do you not agree that fusion between deuterons of low relative
angular momentum (i.e., low temperature D+ particles in PdD) is less
likely to produce free neutrons than fusion between deuterons of high
relative angular momenta (i.e., hot D plasma)?  You do not even have to
believe that low-temperature fusion happens any more often than whatever
you consider to be the electrostatic chance.  When it does hapen, however
rarely, does the temperature have an effect on the branching ratio or not?

On July 4th, 2001, Richard Schultz wrote, in reply to my comment:

It has been nearly a year and a half.  Did you ask?  What did they say?

Best wishes,
James


subject: Re: Shanahan's gambit

text:
Jed Rothwell wrote:

Okay, but in the mean time, please put up NRL's TR 1696 and TR 1862,
the latter of which I got from you before www.lenr-canr.org was up:

  http://bovik.org/codeposition/tr1696.pdf

  http://bovik.org/codeposition/tr1862v1.pdfa
  http://bovik.org/codeposition/tr1862v2.pdf

I think TR 1862 has most of that paper inside it, withoute the prestige
of being the peer-reviewed version.

Best wishes,
James