author: Adam Funk

subject: John Donne's "Devotions upon emergent occasions".

text:
I hope no-one minds my posting this question here, since there isn't (AFAIK)
a John Donne newsgroup.

I've been looking at the recent edition of "Devotions upon Emergent
Occasions" with "Death's Duel", edited by Andrew Motion and available from
amazon.co.uk:

# Paperback 234 pages (December 1, 1999)
# Publisher: Vintage Books
# ISBN: 0375705481

I haven't been able to find this in a bookstore to have a look at it, but
before I order it, I'd like to know whether this edition retains or
modernizes Donne's spelling and punctuation.  Does anyone know?  Any other
opinions on this edition?

Thanks,
Adam


author: bookburn

subject: Re: John Donne's "Devotions upon emergent occasions".

text:
"Adam Funk" <[email]> wrote in message
news:d3vtl9$1r51$[email]...
| I hope no-one minds my posting this question here, since there isn't
(AFAIK)
| a John Donne newsgroup.
|
| I've been looking at the recent edition of "Devotions upon Emergent
| Occasions" with "Death's Duel", edited by Andrew Motion and
available from
| amazon.co.uk:
|
| # Paperback 234 pages (December 1, 1999)
| # Publisher: Vintage Books
| # ISBN: 0375705481
|
| I haven't been able to find this in a bookstore to have a look at
it, but
| before I order it, I'd like to know whether this edition retains or
| modernizes Donne's spelling and punctuation.  Does anyone know?  Any
other
| opinions on this edition?
|
| Thanks,
| Adam

I see a selection of Donne's writings on sale by Luminarium Book
Store, at:  http://www.luminarium.com/sevenlit/donnebook.htm

I didn't sort these out as to edition, but note that these include
inexpensive paperbacks with regularized spelling, as well as the more
expensive variorum edition.

A comment I picked up is that the John Donne Forum is currently active
at:
www.westerncanon.com/bookforums, so you might visit there.

Really good course notes at:
http://faculty.goucher.edu/eng211/john_donne.htm

bookburn


author: John W. Kennedy

text:
Adam Funk wrote:

Amazon reveals modern spelling. However, I note that "offuscasions" is
printed as-is, and glossed as "obfuscations", so I think it is the
editor's intent that no material information be lost. It is harder to
tell about the punctuation, because Donne's prose style naturally
attracts heavy pointing.


text:
John W. Kennedy wrote:

Thanks for that information.  I thought www.amazon.com didn't list this book
(UK edition?), but it can be found there by ISBN.  I think I'll look for
another edition, probably secondhand, since the modernization bugs me.  (I
think literature should be either translated or left alone.)


text:
Adam Funk wrote:

I found one that's still available (I think it may printed on demand): ISBN
0195041739.

Thanks,
Adam


author: The Starmaker

subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
KelL wrote:

I'm a Schnook with a Schmeckle.

Oh, btw...speaking of sch

for you Actors out there
who manage to steal the breakdowns
got an audition
but now would like to
know what you can do to *Win The Audition...

those very few minutes you are in front
of a casting director auditioning..
you can win the audition
by knowing what words to say
in the little time you have.

Sometimes just saying one word
will help you Win that audition.

Let me give you an example:

I went to the cleaners the other day
and the girl looked at my ID and said,
"Hector.., my husband's name is Hector
and we are naming our baby Hector!"

I said, "Hector, Schmector!"

She said, "Oh you're Jewish."

Then I said, "Hector Schmector the garbage collector."

just by adding "sch" to a word during an audition
can give the casting director the impression
that you are Jewish and that will help you
win the audition.

The sarcastic repetition of words by adding "sh" to the front is used
for
emphasis:
mountains becomes "shmountains"
turtle becomes "shmurtle."
Hector become Schmector

Also you need to learn how to sound Jewish.
You need to learn certain words, phrases  and changing
your sentences around.

Here are some examples you can use at your next audtion:

"Stop it already. You're killing me! You vant I should try it again?

Repeat it a few times untill you get the hang of it.

"Stop it already. You're killing me! You vant I should try it again?
"Stop it already. You're killing me! You vant I should try it again?
"Stop it already. You're killing me! You vant I should try it again?

Here are some more examples you can incorporate into your dialogue...

"Let's go! I'm not getting any younger!"

Take the letter "W" and pronounce it as if it were a "V".
Thus "walking" becomes "valking."
"R" sounds are transformed to a guttural utterance that is virtually
impossible to spell in English. It is "ghraining" "algheady."

Answer questions are always answered with questions:
Question: "How do you feel?"
Your response: "How should I feel?"

The subject is often placed at the end of a sentence after a pronoun has
been used at the beginning:
"She dances beautifully, that girl."

"It's beautiful, that dress."

"He walks slow" "Like a fly in the ointment he walks"
"Sorry, I do not know the time" "What do I look like, a clock?"
"I hope things turn out okay" "You should BE so lucky"
"Anything can happen" "It is never so bad, it can't get worse"
"Mountains, shmountains. Stay away. You want a nosebleed?"

"What am I chopped liver?"
"What am I chopped liver?"
"What am I chopped liver?"
"What am I chopped liver?"

You got the idea?
Study it.
It's called Hebonics.

Question: "What time is it?"
English answer: "Sorry, I don't know."
Hebonic answer: "What am I, a clock?"

Remark: "I hope things turn out okay."
English response: "Thanks."
Hebonic response: "I should BE so lucky!"

Remark: "Hurry up. Dinner's ready."
English response: "Be right there."
Hebonic response: "Alright already, I'm coming. What's with the 'hurry'
business? Is there a fire?"

Remark: "I like the tie you gave me; wear it all the time."
English response: "Glad you like it."
Hebonic response: "So what's the matter; you don't like the other ties I
gave you?

Remark: "Sarah and I are engaged."
English response: "Congratulations!"
Hebonic response: "She could stand to gain a few pounds."

Question: "Would you like to go riding with us?"
English answer: "Just say when."
Hebonic answer: "Riding, shmiding! Do I look like a cowboy?"

To guest of honor at his birthday party:
English remark: "Happy birthday."
Hebonic remark: "A year smarter you should become."

Remark: "A beautiful day."
English response: "Sure is."
Hebonic response: "So the sun is out; what else is new?"

Answering a phone call from son:
English remark: "It's been a long time since you called."
Hebonic remark: "You didn't wonder if I'm dead yet?"

And if the casting director asks you if you're Jewish,
them no, tell them you're half Jewish.

The Starmaker


subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
I do have to mention,
by using Hebonics to your advantage,
you would be *stealing* work from other actors
who are supposely suppose to get it instead...
you know, they got a quota in Hollywood...

Also, if a casting director goes to the bathroom
and she's there longer than three minutes...
knock on the door and say,
  "Are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay?"

If she comes out of the bathroom and tells you
"You sound like my Mother!"

You got the part!

The Starmaker

The Starmaker wrote:


author: Dean Hart

subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
Well gosh, Star Faker, since I made the mistake of
responding to you at the beginning of this thread, please
allow me to reach closure with one final missive.

First...

Yes, I do know NOW that you are truly a troll. (And no,
I don't mean the kind of troll that casts for fish--I mean
the kind of troll that skulks under bridges and torments
innocent goats.) And yes, I also am now certain that you
are merely a lonely "schmuck" that has never successfully
related physically to any other human or, most likely, even to
any other species.  Additionally--it regretfully seems--you
have so far only been successful at being vapid, and at
managing to squander most of your lifetime up until
this very moment.

Still, I honestly feel it necessary to mention one final
observation:

The Starmaker wrote:

You mean like you are *stealing* from some unnamed writer
(even if that writer is truly anonymous)?

You posted "your" Hebonics trumpery (the one that is copied
at the end of this email) as if it belonged to you.  Nowhere
did you make mention of the fact that you had pilfered it from
any one of a hundred websites, or from one of an infinite
number of emails.  You merely took the time to tweak a
handful of words to fit your sophomoric theme after
exhausting yourself with that difficult copy-and-paste.

Wow, I bet that makes you feel like a real writer, huh?
Maybe even like an honest-to-goodness humorist.  Yeah,
you're right up there alongside of Art Buchwald, Dave Barry,
Erma Bombeck and Samuel L. Clemens.  Sure, they all
cribbed (or in Art and Dave's case "crib"--since they're still
alive) all their material from playground graffiti and the back
of cereal boxes, just like you do.

Hey, Jar Taker, maybe next you can try your hand
at standup comedy.  I hear you've already got a great
routine about an old childhood friend of yours named
Fat Albert, and another about some wild and crazy guy.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about your childish trolls, but
in the future, maybe you could try wasting people's time with
your OWN material instead of someone else's.  Especially
if one of the newsgroup "bridges" you set up camp under
belongs to REAL writers.

Oh wait...

That would mean you'd have to actually be skilled or
have talents, wouldn't it?

Never mind.  My mistake.

You PUTZ!

Dean "Give-Credit-Where-Credit-Is-Do" Hart

P.S.  Alan Brooks is an American, you schmeckle.  I'm pretty
sure the word "cheers" is in most American dictionaries.  It's
only weird words like "colour" and "aeroplane" and "honour"
that aren't in American dictionaries.  Those crazy Brits just
love to put extra letters in their words.  And don't even get
me started about them putting an invisible "R" in the word
"colonel."

P.P.S. Oh yeah, I forgot:  Since I know your shallow and
empty life will necessitate you responding, I just wanted
to let you know, I won't be seeing that or any other
response you WILL make.  Because I can already hear
the resounding echo of a firm and everlasting...

<PLONK!>


subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
Dean Hart wrote:

Umm, yeah...that would be DUE not DO (or even DEW).

Adieu,

Dean


subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
Dean Hart wrote:

You guys are going to have to learn to get this spelling right,
it's The Starmaker
not starfaker, starman or starburger.

A mistake? Were you told it was a mistake, or did you figured that out
all by yourself?

Did you get permission from your buddies to post here again?

The only goat I seen was at the Los Feliz Street Fair, and the only
people tormenting that
goat was a bunch of little kids. I did not torment that goat.

I had a cuddle party the other night, doesn't that count?

You screen writers like to make up stuff about people. You are now
making
up stuff about me but it's not a movie screen, it's on a computer
screen.
Does screen writers mean any kind of screen?

What about goats?

Can someone translate this for me?

I learn how to steal from the best, Hollywood.
Hollywood Loves to steal from un-named and named writers.

But before I learn how to steal Hollywood style, I've been stealing
all my life since I was a kid. I Love stealing! I will steal anything!!
I'll steal a plane if I knew how to fly one. It's fun stealing.
I get a lot of pleasure stealing. When I see those words written by
I don't know who wrote it, "Thou Shall Not Steal", that had to be
writen by the biggest thief in the planet, just so that he can have
a monopoly on stealing.

There is nothing wrong with stealing. It might be against the law, but
that doesn't make it wrong.

What I want, I take.

But why do people like you always bring up moral issues, this is not a
church or a temple.
This is the Internet! On the Internet, you can steal movies, music,
software and
God looks the other way.

I thought you were a nice guy but you're coming accross as a
intellectual dishonest person.
I'm disapointed in you.

Who is Erma Bombeck and Samuel Clemsns or Dave Barry?
I know Art Buchwald is that guy who sued Paramount,
even after he had them sign a confidentiality agreement, they still
stole from him.
What do you call people who steal from you even after you have them sign
a confidentiality agreement?
Is there a word for those kind of people?

I have the word for it. It's a *bunch* of people who get together, who
conspire to steal
having one common bond, their religion. They are Hollywood's religious
gangsters.
The Kosher Nostra.

Maybe you don't understand the concept of stealing.
If I steal something. it now belongs to me!

If I go into a neigborhood, and I steal a kid's bike.
That bike belongs to me! He doesn't get to see it agian.
I can paint it, add a bell to it or sell it for whatever price I want.
It's my bike.

Haven't you ever stole anything?

Read the Wall Street Journal! It's filled with Stealing!!!!!

WAKE UP PEOPLE. People are stealing from you right now and you don't
even know it.

You make a lot of mistakes don't you. I don't like making mistakes.

That remind me of a saying, If you don't have something nice to say, say
it in Yiddish.

You're an Idealist.

That's the sound an ortrich makes when he stick his head in the sand.
You know what gets exposed.

There is this rumor that there are too many Jews in Hollywood, that
isn't true.
There are just a lot of people *pretending* to be Jewish.

The Starmaker


subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
Dean Hart wrote:

You could at least take your own advise and give credit where credit is
due.
I don't think Dean Hart wrote that quote above even though it appears
that he wrote it.
But why would he sign his name to the left and right of the quote?
That looks like stealing to me.

Hollywood is full of gonifs.

They tell you not to steal while they are stealing at that very moment.

That's Hollywood style!

They make you sign contracts so you won't steal from them but the
contracts
are designed to steal from you! And when you sign it, they laugh!!

I just don't understand people sometimes.

You can not trust anybody anymore!

The Starmaker

Remember that girl I was having a cuddling party with.

She showed me her closet.
She had *tons* of stilito shoes.
Then she showed me a catalouge
of the wierdest shoes I ever seen.
So I told her,
"What are you trying to tell me?"
Then she shows me a whole bunch of dollars
all rolled up in bunches,
and she tells me,
"This is my tip money."
I said to her,
"What do you get tips for?"

(I know she's not an waitress or a stripper, ...
and I wondered why she would sometimes answer the phone with a different
name)

To be continued.....


subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
Dean Hart wrote:

You posted "Dean "Give-Credit-Where-Credit-Is-Do" Hart" (the one that is
copied
at the top of this email) as if it belonged to you

Did you make that quote up yourself?

Does it belong to you?

You are *stealing* from some unnamed writer
(even if that writer is truly anonymous).

You could have at least write "from an unknown source"
if you don't know who the writer is.

"You mean like you are *stealing* from some unnamed writer
(even if that writer is truly anonymous)?" --Dean Hart

"You posted "your" Hebonics trumpery (the one that is copied
at the end of this email) as if it belonged to you.  Nowhere
did you make mention of the fact that you had pilfered it from
any one of a hundred websites, or from one of an infinite
number of emails.  You merely took the time to tweak a
handful of words to fit your sophomoric theme after
exhausting yourself with that difficult copy-and-paste.
-- Dean Hart

The Starmaker


subject: Re: I'm Shocked!

text:
The Starmaker wrote:

When I was a kid
I would love to steal from blind newspaper stand dealers.

I would steal from the blind newspaper guy whatever he had
and then I would walk away a couple of steps
and I would look at the sky to see if
there was any consequences...
No God popped out
the sky was quiet
no voices coming from the sky
no nothing.
not even lightning.

Nothing happen.

I'm waiting for lightening to strike me or something.
Absoultely nothing happen!

Where do you people get the idea that stealing is wrong?


author: joe

subject: writings on classical era (nonhistorical)

text:
I am looking for books written about specific aspects of Greek culture in
the tradition of Montaigne in his essays, and Nietzsche.  I am not looking
for a history book, but one that describes the ideals, the nature of the
Greek individual.  Can anyone help me?  I found Montaigne's essays very
fascinating and would like any other respectable author's viewpoint on Greek
life.


author: Joe Bernstein

subject: Re: writings on classical era (nonhistorical)

text:
In article <OTF48.10278$[email]>,
joe <[email]> wrote:

So if I understand you correctly, you're looking for modern writings,
right?  You were correctly told that the topic is more or less
omnipresent in Western intellectual history, but for what it's worth,
a book of this general sort is H. D. F. Kitto's <The Greeks>.

(Non-historical or indeed ahistorical approaches to the past drive
me up the wall, so I tend to avoid examples rather than seek them out.
Kitto was a college class book.)

Joe Bernstein


author: Caelius

text:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:14:50 -0600, "joe" <[email]>
wrote:

You'll be able to find this sort of stuff in almost every intellectual
(i.e. poet, philosopher, dramatist, composer, etc.) after the
Renaissance. The treatments will differ greatly in size and scope of
course.

Off hand, you could go check out Matthew Arnold, as he has a few
essays along these lines. Their exact titles escape me at the moment,
but they can generally be found in prose anthologies of his works.

Caelius


author: Robert Stonehouse

text:
[email] (Caelius) wrote:

Zimmern's 'Greek Commonwealth', perhaps?
[email]


author: Wm G Smith

text:
"Robert Stonehouse" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
in

Try Plutarch's Lives of Noble Grecians and Romans.  His Essays are also
available.  Seneca is excellent, a Roman but very Hellenized (one of the
greatest Stoic writers).  Aristotle can be tough reading, but his Ethics is
somewhat along the lines of what you are looking for (and much easier to
read than the Organon, Metaphysics, etc.).  I'd also recommend reading the
Greek Dramas.


author: Gary

subject: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
Sign o' the times:

"Encyclopaedia Britannica to end print edition after 244
years."

http://www.vancouversun.com/Encyclopaedia+Britannica+print+edition+after+years/6298372/story.html

http://tinyurl.com/7n8mdlk

- Gary


author: Arthur Neuendorffer

subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
You can still get the same Britannica/Stratfordian lies onlien:
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/537853/William-Shakespeare

<<William Shakespeare, Shakespeare also spelled Shakspere, byname Bard
of Avon or Swan of Avon   (baptized April 26, 1564, Stratford-upon-
Avon, Warwickshire, Eng.—died April 23, 1616, Stratford-upon-Avon),
English poet, dramatist, and actor, often called the English national
poet and considered by many to be the greatest dramatist of all time.

Shakespeare occupies a position unique in world literature. Other
poets, such as Homer and Dante, and novelists, such as Leo Tolstoy and
Charles Dickens, have transcended national barriers; but no writer’s
living reputation can compare to that of Shakespeare, whose plays,
written in the late 16th and early 17th centuries for a small
repertory theatre, are now performed and read more often and in more
countries than ever before. The prophecy of his great contemporary,
the poet and dramatist Ben Jonson, that Shakespeare “was not of an
age, but for all time,” has been fulfilled.

It may be audacious even to attempt a definition of his greatness, but
it is not so difficult to describe the gifts that enabled him to
create imaginative visions of pathos and mirth that, whether read or
witnessed in the theatre, fill the mind and linger there. He is a
writer of great intellectual rapidity, perceptiveness, and poetic
power. Other writers have had these qualities, but with Shakespeare
the keenness of mind was applied not to abstruse or remote subjects
but to human beings and their complete range of emotions and
conflicts. Other writers have applied their keenness of mind in this
way, but Shakespeare is astonishingly clever with words and images, so
that his mental energy, when applied to intelligible human situations,
finds full and memorable expression, convincing and imaginatively
stimulating. As if this were not enough, the art form into which his
creative energies went was not remote and bookish but involved the
vivid stage impersonation of human beings, commanding sympathy and
inviting vicarious participation. Thus, Shakespeare’s merits can
survive translation into other languages and into cultures remote from
that of Elizabethan England.

Although the amount of factual knowledge available about Shakespeare
is surprisingly large for one of his station in life, many find it a
little disappointing, for it is mostly gleaned from documents of an
official character. Dates of baptisms, marriages, deaths, and burials;
wills, conveyances, legal processes, and payments by the court—these
are the dusty details. There are, however, many contemporary allusions
to him as a writer, and these add a reasonable amount of flesh and
blood to the biographical skeleton.

Early life in Stratford

Birthplace of William Shakespeare, Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire,
England. [Credit: © Albert Rose/Archive Photos] The parish register of
Holy Trinity Church in Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, shows that
he was baptized there on April 26, 1564; his birthday is traditionally
celebrated on April 23. His father, John Shakespeare, was a burgess of
the borough, who in 1565 was chosen an alderman and in 1568 bailiff
(the position corresponding to mayor, before the grant of a further
charter to Stratford in 1664). He was engaged in various kinds of
trade and appears to have suffered some fluctuations in prosperity.
His wife, Mary Arden, of Wilmcote, Warwickshire, came from an ancient
family and was the heiress to some land. (Given the somewhat rigid
social distinctions of the 16th century, this marriage must have been
a step up the social scale for John Shakespeare.)

Stratford enjoyed a grammar school of good quality, and the education
there was free, the schoolmaster’s salary being paid by the borough.
No lists of the pupils who were at the school in the 16th century have
survived, but it would be absurd to suppose the bailiff of the town
did not send his son there. The boy’s education would consist mostly
of Latin studies—learning to read, write, and speak the language
fairly well and studying some of the Classical historians, moralists,
and poets. Shakespeare did not go on to the university, and indeed it
is unlikely that the scholarly round of logic, rhetoric, and other
studies then followed there would have interested him.

Instead, at age 18 he married. Where and exactly when are not known,
but the episcopal registry at Worcester preserves a bond dated
November 28, 1582, and executed by two yeomen of Stratford, named
Sandells and Richardson, as a security to the bishop for the issue of
a license for the marriage of William Shakespeare and “Anne Hathaway
of Stratford,” upon the consent of her friends and upon once asking of
the banns. (Anne died in 1623, seven years after Shakespeare. There is
good evidence to associate her with a family of Hathaways who
inhabited a beautiful farmhouse, now much visited, 2 miles [3.2 km]
from Stratford.) The next date of interest is found in the records of
the Stratford church, where a daughter, named Susanna, born to William
Shakespeare, was baptized on May 26, 1583. On February 2, 1585, twins
were baptized, Hamnet and Judith. (Hamnet, Shakespeare’s only son,
died 11 years later.)

How Shakespeare spent the next eight years or so, until his name
begins to appear in London theatre records, is not known. There are
stories—given currency long after his death—of stealing deer and
getting into trouble with a local magnate, Sir Thomas Lucy of
Charlecote, near Stratford; of earning his living as a schoolmaster in
the country; of going to London and gaining entry to the world of
theatre by minding the horses of theatregoers. It has also been
conjectured that Shakespeare spent some time as a member of a great
household and that he was a soldier, perhaps in the Low Countries. In
lieu of external evidence, such extrapolations about Shakespeare’s
life have often been made from the internal “evidence” of his
writings. But this method is unsatisfactory: one cannot conclude, for
example, from his allusions to the law that Shakespeare was a lawyer,
for he was clearly a writer who without difficulty could get whatever
knowledge he needed for the composition of his plays.
Career in the theatre

The first reference to Shakespeare in the literary world of London
comes in 1592, when a fellow dramatist, Robert Greene, declared in a
pamphlet written on his deathbed:

There is an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers, that with his
Tygers heart wrapt in a Players hide supposes he is as well able to
bombast out a blank verse as the best of you; and, being an absolute
Johannes Factotum, is in his own conceit the only Shake-scene in a
country.

What these words mean is difficult to determine, but clearly they are
insulting, and clearly Shakespeare is the object of the sarcasms. When
the book in which they appear (Greenes, groats-worth of witte, bought
with a million of Repentance, 1592) was published after Greene’s
death, a mutual acquaintance wrote a preface offering an apology to
Shakespeare and testifying to his worth. This preface also indicates
that Shakespeare was by then making important friends. For, although
the puritanical city of London was generally hostile to the theatre,
many of the nobility were good patrons of the drama and friends of the
actors. Shakespeare seems to have attracted the attention of the young
Henry Wriothesley, the 3rd earl of Southampton, and to this nobleman
were dedicated his first published poems, Venus and Adonis and The
Rape of Lucrece.

One striking piece of evidence that Shakespeare began to prosper early
and tried to retrieve the family’s fortunes and establish its
gentility is the fact that a coat of arms was granted to John
Shakespeare in 1596. Rough drafts of this grant have been preserved in
the College of Arms, London, though the final document, which must
have been handed to the Shakespeares, has not survived. Almost
certainly William himself took the initiative and paid the fees. The
coat of arms appears on Shakespeare’s monument (constructed before
1623) in the Stratford church. Equally interesting as evidence of
Shakespeare’s worldly success was his purchase in 1597 of New Place, a
large house in Stratford, which he as a boy must have passed every day
in walking to school.

Globe Theatre, copperplate engraving. [Credit: Mary Evans Picture
Library]How his career in the theatre began is unclear, but from
roughly 1594 onward he was an important member of the Lord
Chamberlain’s company of players (called the King’s Men after the
accession of James I in 1603). They had the best actor, Richard
Burbage; they had the best theatre, the Globe (finished by the autumn
of 1599); they had the best dramatist, Shakespeare. It is no wonder
that the company prospered. Shakespeare became a full-time
professional man of his own theatre, sharing in a cooperative
enterprise and intimately concerned with the financial success of the
plays he wrote.

Unfortunately, written records give little indication of the way in
which Shakespeare’s professional life molded his marvelous artistry.
All that can be deduced is that for 20 years Shakespeare devoted
himself assiduously to his art, writing more than a million words of
poetic drama of the highest quality.

Shakespeare had little contact with officialdom, apart from walking—
dressed in the royal livery as a member of the King’s Men—at the
coronation of King James I in 1604. He continued to look after his
financial interests. He bought properties in London and in Stratford.
In 1605 he purchased a share (about one-fifth) of the Stratford tithes—
a fact that explains why he was eventually buried in the chancel of
its parish church. For some time he lodged with a French Huguenot
family called Mountjoy, who lived near St. Olave’s Church in
Cripplegate, London. The records of a lawsuit in May 1612, resulting
from a Mountjoy family quarrel, show Shakespeare as giving evidence in
a genial way (though unable to remember certain important facts that
would have decided the case) and as interesting himself generally in
the family’s affairs.

No letters written by Shakespeare have survived, but a private letter
to him happened to get caught up with some official transactions of
the town of Stratford and so has been preserved in the borough
archives. It was written by one Richard Quiney and addressed by him
from the Bell Inn in Carter Lane, London, whither he had gone from
Stratford on business. On one side of the paper is inscribed: “To my
loving good friend and countryman, Mr. Wm. Shakespeare, deliver
these.” Apparently Quiney thought his fellow Stratfordian a person to
whom he could apply for the loan of £30—a large sum in Elizabethan
times. Nothing further is known about the transaction, but, because so
few opportunities of seeing into Shakespeare’s private life present
themselves, this begging letter becomes a touching document. It is of
some interest, moreover, that 18 years later Quiney’s son Thomas
became the husband of Judith, Shakespeare’s second daughter.

Shakespeare’s will (made on March 25, 1616) is a long and detailed
document. It entailed his quite ample property on the male heirs of
his elder daughter, Susanna. (Both his daughters were then married,
one to the aforementioned Thomas Quiney and the other to John Hall, a
respected physician of Stratford.) As an afterthought, he bequeathed
his “second-best bed” to his wife; no one can be certain what this
notorious legacy means. The testator’s signatures to the will are
apparently in a shaky hand. Perhaps Shakespeare was already ill. He
died on April 23, 1616. No name was inscribed on his gravestone in the
chancel of the parish church of Stratford-upon-Avon. Instead these
lines, possibly his own, appeared:

    Good friend, for Jesus’ sake forbear
    To dig the dust enclosed here.
    Blest be the man that spares these stones,
    And curst be he that moves my bones.

Shakespeare’s family or friends, however, were not content with a
simple gravestone, and, within a few years, a monument was erected on
the chancel wall. It seems to have existed by 1623. Its epitaph,
written in Latin and inscribed immediately below the bust, attributes
to Shakespeare the worldly wisdom of Nestor, the genius of Socrates,
and the poetic art of Virgil. This apparently was how his
contemporaries in Stratford-upon-Avon wished their fellow citizen to
be remembered.
The tributes of his colleagues

The memory of Shakespeare survived long in theatrical circles, for his
plays remained a major part of the repertory of the King’s Men until
the closing of the theatres in 1642. The greatest of Shakespeare’s
great contemporaries in the theatre, Ben Jonson, had a good deal to
say about him. To William Drummond of Hawthornden in 1619 he said that
Shakespeare “wanted art.” But, when Jonson came to write his splendid
poem prefixed to the Folio edition of Shakespeare’s plays in 1623, he
rose to the occasion with stirring words of praise:

    Triumph, my Britain, thou hast one to show
    To whom all scenes of Europe homage owe.
    He was not of an age, but for all time!

Besides almost retracting his earlier gibe about Shakespeare’s lack of
art, he gives testimony that Shakespeare’s personality was to be felt,
by those who knew him, in his poetry—that the style was the man.
Jonson also reminded his readers of the strong impression the plays
had made upon Queen Elizabeth I and King James I at court
performances:

    Sweet Swan of Avon, what a sight it were
    To see thee in our waters yet appear,
    And make those flights upon the banks of Thames
    That so did take Eliza and our James!

Shakespeare seems to have been on affectionate terms with his theatre
colleagues. His fellow actors John Heminge and Henry Condell (who,
with Burbage, were remembered in his will) dedicated the First Folio
of 1623 to the earl of Pembroke and the earl of Montgomery, explaining
that they had collected the plays “without ambition either of self-
profit or fame; only to keep the memory of so worthy a friend and
fellow alive as was our Shakespeare.”
Anecdotes and documents

Seventeenth-century antiquaries began to collect anecdotes about
Shakespeare, but no serious life was written until 1709, when Nicholas
Rowe tried to assemble information from all available sources with the
aim of producing a connected narrative. There were local traditions at
Stratford: witticisms and lampoons of local characters; scandalous
stories of drunkenness and sexual escapades. About 1661 the vicar of
Stratford wrote in his diary: “Shakespeare, Drayton, and Ben Jonson
had a merry meeting, and it seems drank too hard; for Shakespeare died
of a fever there contracted.” On the other hand, the antiquary John
Aubrey wrote in some notes about Shakespeare: “He was not a company
keeper; lived in Shoreditch; wouldn’t be debauched, and, if invited
to, writ he was in pain.” Richard Davies, archdeacon of Lichfield,
reported, “He died a papist.” How much trust can be put in such a
story is uncertain. In the early 18th century a story appeared that
Queen Elizabeth had obliged Shakespeare “to write a play of Sir John
Falstaff in love” and that he had performed the task (The Merry Wives
of Windsor) in a fortnight. There are other stories, all of uncertain
authenticity and some mere fabrications.

When serious scholarship began in the 18th century, it was too late to
gain anything from traditions. But documents began to be discovered.
Shakespeare’s will was found in 1747 and his marriage license in 1836.
The documents relating to the Mountjoy lawsuit already mentioned were
found and printed in 1910. It is conceivable that further documents of
a legal nature may yet be discovered, but as time passes the hope
becomes more remote. Modern scholarship is more concerned to study
Shakespeare in relation to his social environment, both in Stratford
and in London. This is not easy, because the author and actor lived a
somewhat detached life: a respected tithe-owning country gentleman in
Stratford, perhaps, but a rather rootless artist in London.>>


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:27:00 -0700, Gary <[email]> wrote:

Beginning of the end probably came back in the late '50s, when the
British company was sold to a US group in Chicago, and the Mortimer
Adler package of Macropaedia and Great Ideas got in the mix.
Britannica Junior was competing with World Book, Comptons, Book of
Knowledge and to some extent vied with the adult set.

Adler wasn't able to market his Great Ideas concept very well or his
"lifetime" reading program called "paideia".  Maybe literacy in the US
was a problem about the time many high school graduates couldn't read
their diplomas.  Now, of course, free computer on-line encyclopedias
are more often used, especially Wikipedia.

The old favorite was the 1911 edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica,
which had many articles written by real authorities in their field.
Today you can sometimes find sets in the leather binding, which look
good on your shelves and would serve well for desert-island reading if
you have lots of time to study on why the world came to this end.


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 Arthur Neuendorffer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter) wrote:

   Is English your native tongue, Art?

   Which of the above assertions do you think (usual disclaimer) are
"lies," Art?  And what is your "evidence" for thinking (usual
disclaimer) so?


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
nordicskiv2  <[email]> wrote:

Virtually, it is my onlie tongue, Dave.

Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote:

All of them.

"David L. Webb" <[email]> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
http://doubtaboutwill.org/past_doubters
......................................................
    “Just a mere glance at [his] pathetic efforts to sign his
name (illiterate scrawls) should forever eliminate Shakspere from
further consideration in this question — he could not write.”

 “Academics err in failing to acknowledge the mystery surrounding
'Shake-speare's' identity … They would do both liberal education and
the works of 'Shake-speare' a distinguished service by opening the
question to the judgment of their students, and others outside the
academic realm.”

    — Letter to Max Weismann, Director,
 Center for the Study of The Great Ideas, November 7, 1997
......................................................
Mortimer J. Adler (1902 – 2001) — University of Chicago philosophy
professor, prolific author. Adler was series editor of the Great Books
of the Western World, co-founder of the Center for the Study of The
Great Ideas, and a long-time Chairman of the Board of Editors of the
Encyclopedia Britannica. He sought to bring philosophy to the masses,
and some of his books were bestsellers. His seminar on “Six Great
Ideas” became a popular PBS television series, hosted by Bill Moyers.
--------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 Arthur Neuendorffer <[email]> (aka Niemanddoofer) wrote:

   Evidence, Art?  Hint: Your demented delusions don't count as
evidence.

   Usual disclaimer, Art!  Will you neVER learn?!

   But wheneVER the "question" is opened to outsiders, as in this
forum, the cranks, ignoramuses, and lunatics rush in where even self-
respecting fools would fear to tread!  Indeed, in *this forum alone*,
nonacademic anti-Stratfordians have showered us with hilarious moronic
idiocies, among the most salient of which are:

• Osric does not appear in the First Folio.
• Oxford was Queen Elizabeth's son, the result of a pregnancy that
would have been the longest human pregnancy on record, vying with the
gestation period of elephants.
• Oxford was also Queen Elizabeth's lover.
• Oxford was the Earl of Rutland's twin brother.
• Francis Bacon was Queen Elizabeth's illegitimate son.
• Indeed, the Virgin Queen had roughly a half-dozen illegitimate
progeny.
• The word _turk_ is Celtic(!) for "ox"!  This "fact" is quite
remarkable -- and REVeals much about the moron who wrote it -- for
several reasons:
(1) There is no such language as "Celtic."
(2) In none of the pertinent Celtic languages is there a word _turk_
meaning "ox": indeed,
(3) The letter "k" is *not used* in the Irish alphabet, except for
foreign loan words.
(4) The moron who wrote the above *might* perhaps be confusing the
nonexistent word _turk_ in the nonexistent Celtic languages with the
Gaelic _torc_ or Cymric _twrch_, but neither of these words means
"ox"; rather, both mean "wild boar."
[You see what sort of ignorant cretins and cranks begin infesting the
discussion in open forums, Art?]
• Shakespeare, being a contemporary of Caxton, was a teenager when the
first book was printed in English.
• During the Elizabethan period, knowledge of how to sail a ship was a
state secret.
• Elizabethan nobles spoke in blank verse as a matter of course.
• The majority of English literature before the Civil War was written
in "foundering" English, the tongue not being taught in schools --
this revelation makes it all the more remarkable that Elizabethan
nobility habitually spoke in blank verse, as noted above.
• The word _vier_ is Spanish for "four."
• Shakespeare wrote _Don Quixote_ —- in the original English.
• The original performances of _Hamlet_ were replete with stage farts;
this can be proven by which hand Claudius waves when he gestures.
• Anne Hathaway was William Shakespeare’s mother.
• The word _tærin_ means "youth" in Russian -- this fact is quite
remarkable, considering that the word contains a letter not in the
Russian alphabet.
• _King Lear_ is a comedy, because Cordelia is alive at the end.
• The poet Virgil (born 70 BCE) predated the historian Herodotus (who
died over four hundred years BCE).
• Only one of Shakespeare’s plays is set in a foreign country other
than Italy.
• Oxford's mother remarried "hastily."  This can be shown from the
fact that the dowager Countess of Oxford referred to her second
husband as "Mr. Tyrell" in a letter -- this shows that she was already
married to him at the time, as wives often referred to their husbands
in this way.
• Rivers were not used for navigation before the invention of
steamboats.
• Sonnets 153 and 154 were written when the poet was seven years old.
• Pre-Exilic Hebrew was a Romance language.
• Spoken English has no grammar.
• Old English was spoken in some shires until the nineteenth century.
• There is no such language as Old English, which makes the "fact"
above all the more remarkable.
• The number 19 is remarkable for being both the sum of two
consecutive integers and the difference of their squares.
• The word "moniment" meant in early 1600s the same thing it did in
obscure Scottish slang of the nineteenth century.
• _Verulam_ means "state of truth" in Latin.
• Mary Queen of Scots was Elizabeth’s sister.
• Mary Queen of Scots was Elizabeth’s half-sister.
• The Earl of Southampton, being fond of drag, used to hang around the
theatres hoping to play female roles.  He was given a few such parts
and was apparently quite convincing as a girl.  You can tell all this
by the fact he has long hair in a portrait.
• The word "shake-scene" was Elizabethan theatre slang for "stage-
hand."
• The word _omspit_ means "to dig up" in Danish.

There are many more such anti-Stratfordian "facts" pertaining to
Shakespeare authorship -- or at any rate, that certain delusional anti-
Stratfordians think (usual disclaimer) pertain to Shakespeare
authorship, some of which can be found at

<http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/antistrats.html>.

   HoweVER, it is unfair to the comedic virtuosity of self-deluded
anti-Stratfordian cranks to confine one's attention *only* to "facts"
that bear upon the authorship "question"; indeed, if one considers
anti-Stratfordian "facts" more broadly, one finds that:

• Newton (who died in 1727) engaged in a bitter priority dispute with
Hegel (born in 1770).
• Similarly, Milton founded Freemasonry some two decades after his own
death.
• The eminent Yale scholar Peter J. Gay died in the September 11
attacks.  You can tell this because an industrial plant manager named
Peter A. Gay, who has a different middle initial, resides in a
different place, follows a different profession, and is a quarter
century younger, perished in the attacks.  Moreover, you can confirm
that the scholar Peter Gay must have perished, because he was
supported by the Mellon Foundation, there is a Mellon Bank in
Manhattan, and the ill-fated aircraft was en route to Manhattan when
the tragedy occurred.  QED!
• The Apollo lunar landings were a hoax.
• Similarly, AIDS is a hoax.
• The Bernoulli Principle plays no role in the flight of conventional
fixed-wing aircraft.
• The Gulf oil platform explosion was the result of a North Korean
submarine attack.
• As a result, the atmosphere is on the verge of ignition.
• The Large Hadron Collider is causing earthquakes and other natural
disasters.  In fact, it will create black holes that will destroy the
earth.
• Special Relativity is wrong.
• Special Relativity was "plagerized [sic]" by Einstein from Lorentz
and Poincaré, who were thereby deprived of the acclaim due to them for
developing a wrong theory.
• Michelson won the first Nobel Prize in physics.
• The universe, for some reason, affords preference to the meter for
measuring distance, because the speed of light in meters per second is
the number that shows up in Einstein's famous formula E=mc^2 -- either
that or Einstein was wrong, and just pulled the number c^2 out of the
air.

You see what I mean, Art?

   ...but not a professor in a relevant field.

   "Prolific author" is scarcely a qualification for expertise in this
field, Art; indeed, many full-fledged cranks and even lunatics are
quite prolific.  In fact, consider who is the most prolific poster to
h.l.a.s.!

   Bringing learning to the masses is a laudable goal; howeVER, going
the REVerse direction and bringing learning *from* the asses is a time-
honored anti-Stratfordian pursuit.


author: John W Kennedy

subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
On 2012-03-15 23:59:59 +0000, [email] said:

The Britannica 3 came out in 1974.

--
John W Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
  -- Charles Williams.  "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"


author: Tom Reedy

subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
On Mar 15, 6:59 pm, [email] wrote:

Adler was an anti-Stratfordian, BTW.

TR


subject: A [Smellie] Society of Gentlemen in Scotland

text:
------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica

<<The Britannica was the idea of Colin Macfarquhar, a bookseller and
printer, and Andrew Bell, an engraver, both of Edinburgh. They
conceived of the Britannica as a conservative reaction to the French
Encyclopédie of Denis Diderot (published 1751–1766), which was widely
viewed as heretical. Ironically, the Encyclopédie had begun as a
French translation of the popular English encyclopedia, Cyclopaedia
published by Ephraim Chambers in 1728. Although later editions of
Chambers' Cyclopaedia were still popular, and despite the commercial
failure of other English encyclopedias, Macfarquhar and Bell were
inspired by the intellectual ferment of the Scottish Enlightenment and
thought the time ripe for a new encyclopedia "compiled upon a new
plan".

Needing an editor, the two chose a 28-year-old scholar named *William
Smellie* who was offered 200 pounds sterling to produce the
encyclopedia in 100 parts (called "numbers" and equivalent to thick
pamphlets), which were later bound into three volumes. The first
number appeared on December 6, 1768 in Edinburgh, priced sixpence or 8
pence on finer paper. The Britannica was published under the pseudonym
"A Society of Gentlemen in Scotland", possibly referring to the many
gentlemen who had bought subscriptions. By releasing the numbers in
weekly installments, the Britannica was completed in 1771, having
2,391 pages. The numbers were bound in three equally sized volumes
covering A–B, C–L, and M–Z; an estimated 3,000 sets were eventually
sold, priced at 12 pounds sterling apiece. The 1st edition also
featured 160 beautiful copperplate illustrations engraved by Bell.
Some illustrations were shocking to some readers, such as the three
pages depicting female pelvises and fetuses in the midwifery article;
*King George III commanded that these pages be ripped from EVERy
copy* .

The key idea that set the Britannica apart was to group related topics
together into longer essays, that were then organized alphabetically.
Previous English encyclopedias had generally listed related terms
separately in their alphabetical order, rather like a modern technical
dictionary, an approach that the Britannica's' management derided as
"dismembering the sciences". Although anticipated by Dennis de
Coetlogon, the idea for this "new plan" is generally ascribed to Colin
Macfarquhar, although Smellie claimed it as his own invention.

Smellie wrote most of the first edition, borrowing liberally from the
authors of his era, including Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander
Pope and Samuel Johnson. He later said: "I wrote most of it, my lad,
and snipped out from books enough material for the printer. With
pastepot and scissors I composed it!" —William Smellie, at a meeting
of the Crochallan Fencibles

The vivid prose and easy navigation of the first edition led to strong
demand for a second. Although this edition has been faulted for its
imperfect scholarship, Smellie argued that the Britannica should be
given the benefit of the doubt: "With regard to errors in general,
whether falling under the denomination of mental, typographical or
accidental, we are conscious of being able to point out a greater
number than any critic whatever. Men who are acquainted with the
innumerable difficulties of attending the execution of a work of such
an extensive nature will make proper allowances. To these we appeal,
and shall rest satisfied with the judgment they pronounce." —William
Smellie, in the Preface to the 1st edition of the Encyclopædia
Britannica

Smellie strove to make Britannica as usable as possible, saying that
"utility ought to be the principal intention of every publication.
Wherever this intention does not plainly appear, neither the books nor
their authors have the smallest claim to the approbation of mankind".
On the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the 1st edition,
Encyclopædia Britannica Inc. published a facsimile of the 1st edition,
even including "age spots" on the paper. This has been periodically
reprinted and is still part of Britannica's product line.>>
-------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------
http://doubtaboutwill.org/past_doubters
......................................................
    “Just a mere glance at [his] pathetic efforts to sign his name
(illiterate scrawls) should forever eliminate Shakspere from further
consideration in this question — he could not write.”

    “Academics err in failing to acknowledge the mystery surrounding
'Shake-speare's' identity … They would do both liberal education and
the works of 'Shake-speare' a distinguished service by opening the
question to the judgment of their students, and others outside the
academic realm.”

    — Letter to Max Weismann, Director, Center for the Study of The
Great Ideas, November 7, 1997
......................................................
Mortimer J. Adler (1902 – 2001) — University of Chicago philosophy
professor, prolific author. Adler was series editor of the Great Books
of the Western World, co-founder of the Center for the Study of The
Great Ideas, and a long-time Chairman of the Board of Editors of the
Encyclopedia Britannica. He sought to bring philosophy to the masses,
and some of his books were bestsellers. His seminar on “Six Great
Ideas” became a popular PBS television series, hosted by Bill Moyers.
His “Syntopicon: An Index to The Great Ideas” is a valuable tool for
many academic researchers.
--------------------------------------------------
John W Kennedy <[email]> wrote:

Education in the U.S. went totally to pot when they stopped requiring
a swimming test for a bachelor's degree: <<Mortimer Jerome Adler
(December 28, 1902 – June 28, 2001) was an American philosopher,
educator, and popular author. At University he contributed to the
student literary magazine, The Morningside. Though he failed to pass
the required Columbia swimming test for a bachelor's degree, he stayed
on at Columbia and eventually received an instructorship and finally a
doctorate in psychology.>>

Art Neuendorffer


author: Mark Steese

subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
[email] wrote in
news:[email]:

Literacy wasn't the problem: Adler was. Among other things, he drew no
distinction between literary works and technical ones: he thought that the
modern reader can get just as much value from reading Galen's *De
Facultatibus Naturalibus* or Huygens' *Treatise on Light* as from reading
*Paradise Lost* or *The Winter's Tale*.   He treated published works the
way a natural history museum treats rock strata: items to be examined for
the presence of interesting things that can be carefully removed from
context and placed on display.
--
At the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893, a very curious figure stood
in the California State Building: a medieval knight in armor, mounted on
a horse, composed entirely of prunes.	-Douglas Sackman


author: David L. Webb

subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 Arthur Neuendorffer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter) wrote:

   Certainly Russian, Ossetian, German, Spanish, French, Latin, Slovak,
and a host of other tongues have been ruled out; howeVER, if you are
suggesting that you are a monoglot, then you are oVERrating yourself,
Art -- like Elizabeth, you are at best a hemidemisemiglot (get someone
who is musical enough not to induce pianos to commit autodefenestration
to explain to you what a hemidemisemiquaVER is, Art).

   But you did not answer my question, Art -- which of the assertions
that you quoted from the Britannica article do you regard as "lies,"
Art?  And what makes you think (usual disclaimer) so?  Please be
specific: show your work, Art.


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
On 2012-03-16 12:20:12 +0000, Tom Reedy said:

Really? A pity, that, but, of course, his c.v. shows both that he was
unprepared to deal with serious historical inquiry and that he was
predisposed to embrace the myth of the ivory-tower poet.

--
John W Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
  -- Charles Williams.  "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 05:20:12 -0700 (PDT), Tom Reedy
<[email]> wrote:

Another mark against him is that he's the one who advocated school
kids and others to use yellow marker pens on their books when reading,
evidently believing that highlighting help organize thoughts, memory,
or something.


subject: Re: A [Smellie] Society of Gentlemen in Scotland

text:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:29:58 -0700 (PDT), Arthur Neuendorffer
<[email]> wrote:

There seems to have been an ideology in the 18th century to compose a
complete encyclopedia, as if you could assemble ideas in a logical
arrangement of the entire range of human knowledge.  Evidently,
philosophers of the Age of Reason/Enlightenment in France (Diderot)
thought they could make such a Great Encyclopedia.

But it's also remarkable that while imprisoned in the Tower, Raleigh
would single-handedly write The Historie of the World (London, 1628)
about the ancient history of Greece and Rome. Not sure if this is in a
similar spirit of nation building, as the Aeneid was for Rome.  I seem
to remember it has a picture of Atlas on the cover.  (Trying to look
this up on the WEB, I learn that the Atlas School, in Raleigh, NC, has
preschool, kindergarten, elementary and middle schools, and they
"teach foreign languages, healthy eating, and music."

Really ingenious that the Wikipedia, my favorite encyclopedia, is
available free on the Internet, in foreign languages, and even
translates foreign entries for readers.  Google, too, is open sourced
like that, I think.  With all the smart phones, etc., and
communications applications out there, it could be we're in the middle
of another world-wide Age of social revolution?


subject: Re: OT: Encyclopaedia Britannica

text:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:33:41 +0000 (UTC), Mark Steese
<[email]> wrote:

Good point.  Emphasis on new approaches to reading/studying were
around, such as "speed reading," trying to get "all the media into the
act," etc..

 But I'm sure the point should be "reading with a purpose," where you
learn different methods and can adjust according to your purpose.
Because studies show that people normally read in various ways,
sometimes re-reading passages, even going back to previous pages;
sometimes stopping and recollecting something from experience;
skipping to the "good" parts; etc.

Professionals know how to get organized about how they will read
something for a certain purpose, I think.


author: neufer

subject: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
-------------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter F." <[email]>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 04:26:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: new member intro: Adam Selzer

Adam Selzer wrote:

First of all, welcome back Adam! Long time no read.

Just to keep you in the picture, my own view of what was behind
the Deptford event has changed a wee bit since your departure.
I still think that the most logical explanation for those people
to have met there that day was to fake Marlowe's death, and
that Burghley and son were (with Thomas Walsingham) the main
influences upon what happened. However, I am now increasingly
of the opinion that the whole thing was actually agreed by the
Privy Council. This is something I explain at
<http://marlowe-shakespeare.blogspot.com/2010/07/christopher-marlowe-
flight-or.html>.

I have always been intrigued by the question of why the words
added at the top of the Baines Note after Marlowe's supposed
death were changed from saying that he "dyed a suden and violent
deathe" to saying that he "came to a suden & fearfull ende of
his life". If the writer knew that Marlowe had not in fact died,
but that his life as Marlowe had certainly come to an end, this
would be precisely how he might by equivocation avoid directly
lying to the Queen.

It certainly seemed the obvious answer to me (and no biographer
has offered a better) as long as I thought that the amendment
had been made either by Lord Burghley or Sir Robert Cecil, both
of whom I believed to have been involved. However, this concl-
usion was threatened when Charles Nicholl's revised edition of
"The Reckoning" came out in 2002.  He revealed that these amend-
ments had been made not by Marlowe's "friends" the Cecils after
all, but by one those from whom I has assumed he was trying to
escape, in other words an "enemy", Lord Keeper Puckering.

Back in 1999 I had said, as almost a throwaway remark in a
post to HLAS, "In fact, it would not surprise me if Whitgift had
actually agreed to this, in an unholy pact with Burghley". Dave
More had also suggested at around the same time that Essex,
Burghley and the Queen (although not Whitgift) were involved in
negotiating his punishment, which resulted in Marlowe being
"banished-to-death."

Putting these three things together seemed to offer a solution.
The faked death was a Privy Council decision, tacitly given the
OK by the Queen, which arose from a compromise between Burghley
& Cecil (who wanted to save Marlowe) and Whitgift & Puckering
(who wanted him dead).

Discussing the article to which I provide the link, above,
Cynthia Richards wrote, "for Marlowe to have been both banished
AND proclaimed dead to the world doesn't seem to be much of a
compromise between factions---it's too heavily weighted on the
"Let's Get Marlowe" side." My comment would be that this was
simply the best deal Burghley could squeeze out of Whitgift.
Hard luck on Marlowe, but better than real death!

Peter F.

P.S. We have already discussed this to a certain extent here in
the threads "charges against marlowe", "Royden in Scotland" and
"ayli: ipse".
-------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------
<<Locoweed is a common name in North America for any plant that
produces *SWAINsonine*. The term locoweed usually refers only to the
North American species of *OXytropis* and Astragalus. Livestock
poisoned by chronic ingestion of large amounts of *SWAINsonine*
develop a medical condition known as *SWAINsonine tOXicosis*.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
.   Love's Labour's Lost  Act 4, Scene 1

COSTARD: By my soul, a *SWAIN*! a most simple CLOWN!
.   Lord, Lord, how the ladies and I have put him down!
.   O' my troth, most SWEET JESTS! most incony vulgar WIT!
------------------------------------------------------------
.      King Henry VI, Part iii  Act 2, Scene 5

KING HENRY VI: O God! methinks it were a happy life,
.      To be no better than a homely *SWAIN*;
------------------------------------------------------------
TALBOT:   When first this order was ordain'd, my lords,
.   Knights of the garter were of noble birth,
.   Valiant and virtuous, full of haughty courage,
.   Such as were grown to credit by the wars;
.   Not fearing death, nor shrinking for distress,
.   But always resolute in most extremes.
.   He then that is not furnish'd in this sort
.   Doth but usurp the sacred name of knight,
.   Profaning this most honourable order,
.   And should, if I were worthy to be judge,
.   Be quite degraded, like a HEDGE-BORN *SWAIN*
.   That doth presume to BOAST OF GENTLE BLOOD.
--------------------------------------------------------------
SWANimote: A court held thrice a year before forest *VERDErers*
by the steward of the court. So called because the *SWANs*
or *SWAINS* were the jurymen. (*SWANs* or *SWEINS* ,
freeholders; AS, *SWAN* or *SWEIN* , a herdsman,
shepherd, youth; our *SWAIN*.)
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.elizabethanauthors.com/oxfordpoems.htm

 1. Come hither, *shepherd SWAIN*!
.    Sir, what do you require?
    I pray thee show to me thy name;
.    My name is *FOND DESIRE* .

.   .       -  Earle of Oxenforde
......................................
#1 *FOND DESIRE*

Brooke Romeus (2123):
When love and *FOND DESIRE* were boiling in my breast,

Golding Ovid (Ep.130): ...
But pride and *FOND DESIRE* of praise have EVER wrought ...

(VI.61): And through a *FOND DESIRE* / Of glory, to her own decay

(VIII.89): For fortune works against the *FOND DESIRE* ...

(VIII.302): Of *FOND DESIRE* to fly to Heaven, above his bounds he
*STIED*

(IX.744-45): is much as in respect /
My *FOND DESIRE* to satisfy, and little in effect

Watson Hek (LXIIII): Whome love doth force to follow *FOND DESIRE*
... Which *FOND DESIRE* no counsel can remove;

(LXXIX): And *FOND DESIRE* doth *oVERmaster WILL* :

(XCI): You suffer now by forced *FOND DESIRE*:

Gascoigne ... Jocasta (Epi): O *FOND DESIRE* of princely...

Lyly Gallathea (I.3) MELEBEUS:
... suffering thee to perish by a *FOND DESIRE* ...

Shakes TGV (I.1)VAL: Thou art a votary to *FOND DESIRE*.

Lucrece (45): But his hot heart, which *FOND DESIRE* doth scorch,

Greene (Prince's Sonnet.7):
The boy waxy bold, fired by *FOND DESIRE* (in poem)

Anon. Willobie (III.10): The root of woe is *FOND DESIRE*, ...

(XXIII.4): To daunt the qualms of *FOND DESIRE*,

Penelope (XIV.5): My lightness breeds their *FOND DESIRE*
--------------------------------------------------------------

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Not particularly.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

There used to be a local group of Oxfordians in
the MVD (Maryland, Virginia, D.C.) area but
I lost touch with them a long while back.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I'm glad to learn that gHoulsby is undesireable
even by Goon Squad standards.

Art Neuendorffer


author: Mark Houlsby

subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On 23 Aug, 14:18, neufer <[email]> wrote:

Is English your native tongue, Art?

You've posted this several times, now.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/neuendorfferdailydumps/topics

No interference in NDD.

Post there.

Mark Houlsby


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter) wrote:

   But Art -- "swainsonine" is an anagram of "Is now insane"!

   And you think (usual disclaimer) that the appearance of the
character strings -swain- and -ox- in the scientific names of those
plants has some bearing upon Shakespeare authorship, Art?  I'm just
curious about how your mind works -- or rather, about how it fails to
do so.

[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]

   May I take it that the answer to my question is "nothing," Art?

   Isn't it reassuring to have such lucid, erudite coreligionists as
Beauclerk, Mr. Streitz, Mr. Crowley, "Buckeye Pete," Elisabeth Sears,
Little Willie, Brame and Popova, _et al_, Art?  And doesn't it make
you proud to know that they feel the same way about you?

   A local group (or better, a loco group) of Oxfordians would be
better described as a Maryland-Virginia D.T. group, Art.

   Then this is the perfect time to re-establish ties.  How can you
hope to solve the authorship "mystery" if you don't attend the
pertinent nutfests in order to stay _au courant_ with the latest
Oxfordian "research" advances, Art?

   Besides, you know how to reach Dr. Stritmatter at his institution,
even if he does not know where you are institutionalized.  You could
email him and arrange to drive to the next nutfest together.

   Is English your native tongue, Art?

   Your Petulant Paranoid persona is still priceless, Art!


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I won't even bother with the INIPNC.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

It works by association, Dave.

And all roads eventually lead back to Oxford:
----------------------------------------------------------
.   Love's Labour's Lost  Act 4, Scene 1

COSTARD: By my soul, a *SWAIN*! a most simple CLOWN!
.   Lord, Lord, how the ladies and I have put him down!
.   O' my troth, most SWEET JESTS! most incony vulgar WIT!
------------------------------------------------------------
.      King Henry VI, Part iii  Act 2, Scene 5

KING HENRY VI: O God! methinks it were a happy life,
.      To be no better than a homely *SWAIN*;
------------------------------------------------------------
TALBOT:   When first this order was ordain'd, my lords,
.   Knights of the garter were of noble birth,
.   Valiant and virtuous, full of haughty courage,
.   Such as were grown to credit by the wars;
.   Not fearing death, nor shrinking for distress,
.   But always resolute in most extremes.
.   He then that is not furnish'd in this sort
.   Doth but usurp the sacred name of knight,
.   Profaning this most honourable order,
.   And should, if I were worthy to be judge,
.   Be quite degraded, like a HEDGE-BORN *SWAIN*
.   That doth presume to BOAST OF GENTLE BLOOD.
--------------------------------------------------------------
SWANimote: A court held thrice a year before forest *VERDErers*
by the steward of the court. So called because the *SWANs*
or *SWAINS* were the jurymen. (*SWANs* or *SWEINS* ,
freeholders; AS, *SWAN* or *SWEIN* , a herdsman,
shepherd, youth; our *SWAIN*.)
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.elizabethanauthors.com/oxfordpoems.htm

 1. Come hither, *shepherd SWAIN*!
.    Sir, what do you require?
    I pray thee show to me thy name;
.    My name is *FOND DESIRE* .

.   .       -  Earle of Oxenforde
......................................
#1 *FOND DESIRE*

Brooke Romeus (2123):
When love and *FOND DESIRE* were boiling in my breast,

Golding Ovid (Ep.130): ...
But pride and *FOND DESIRE* of praise have EVER wrought ...

(VI.61): And through a *FOND DESIRE* / Of glory, to her own decay

(VIII.89): For fortune works against the *FOND DESIRE* ...

(VIII.302): Of *FOND DESIRE* to fly to Heaven,
__ above his bounds he *STIED*

(IX.744-45): is much as in respect /
My *FOND DESIRE* to satisfy, and little in effect

Watson Hek (LXIIII): Whome love doth force to follow *FOND DESIRE*
... Which *FOND DESIRE* no counsel can remove;

(LXXIX): And *FOND DESIRE* doth *oVERmaster WILL* :

(XCI): You suffer now by forced *FOND DESIRE*:

Gascoigne ... Jocasta (Epi): O *FOND DESIRE* of princely...

Lyly Gallathea (I.3) MELEBEUS:
... suffering thee to perish by a *FOND DESIRE* ...

Shakes TGV (I.1)VAL: Thou art a votary to *FOND DESIRE*.

Lucrece (45): But his hot heart, which *FOND DESIRE* doth scorch,

Greene (Prince's Sonnet.7):
The boy waxy bold, fired by *FOND DESIRE* (in poem)

Anon. Willobie (III.10): The root of woe is *FOND DESIRE*, ...

(XXIII.4): To daunt the qualms of *FOND DESIRE*,

Penelope (XIV.5): My lightness breeds their *FOND DESIRE*
--------------------------------------------------------------

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Take what you like, Dave.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Not particularly.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I make the latest Oxfordian "research" advances, Dave.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I could but I won't.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Peter Piper


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter) wrote:

   Well, that's progress, Art -- I'm glad that you've finally realized
that it's idiotic, and hence not worth bothering with.  It certainly
took you long enough!

   You mean, it *malfunctions* by association.

[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]

   Then you've learned nothing since your mother called you "Stoop" --
graciously conceded, Art!

   *Which one*, Art?  Do you mean that you *don't* find it
particularly reassuring having such lucid, erudite coreligionists as
Beauclerk, Mr. Streitz, Mr. Crowley, "Buckeye Pete," Elisabeth Sears,
Little Willie, Brame and Popova, _et al_?  Or do you mean that you are
not particularly proud of the way that your coreligionists feel about
you?  Be specific, Art!

   You did well to enclose "advances" in quotation marks, Art.  But do
you mean that *you* are responsible for Beauclerk's demented PT/DT
advances?

   Why not, Art?  I'm sure that he's a charming conVERsationalist --
you two could while away the long hours of the drive to Portland
together!

   That isn't what you wrote, Art; you cannot even quote *yourself*
accurately!  You wrote "undesireable [sic]."

   You're losing the thread of the thread, which is entitled "Peter
*Farey* changes tune" [emphasis added].  Pay attention, Art.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter) wrote:

   Your pretense of paranoia is priceless, Art!

   Of course, Art. :-)

[...]

   Keep it clean, Art.  Boaz will be B.S., especially when it appears
in your posts.

   Not a lot of English, certainly.  In fact, what *have* you learned
since then, Art?  Your attainments evidently do not include middle
school-level algebra, judging by your fascination with the remarkable
properties of the number nineteen.

   Doesn't he attend various annual Oxfordian nutfests?

   You're missing the point, Art -- as usual.  His web page says that
the he began writing *nonfiction* in 2004, yet the work published in
2005 is manifestly *fiction*.

   You know VERy well that SACC agents are not permitted to discuss
operational details, Art.

   Congratulations, Art!  Personally, I would find more satisfaction
in an acknowledgment appearing in a sane book by a renowned expert in
the field, but there is no accounting for taste.

   Best of luck, Art -- since you've finally found an Oxfordian almost
as far out on the lunatic fringe as you (not to mention almost as
inept in the use of English as you -- before Roper, only Mr. Streitz
appeared to satisfy both criteria), you appear to have a reasonable
chance.

[...]

   Why don't you post the acknowledgment, Art?  I'm curious to see
what Roper said about you, assuming that it is coherent enough to be
intelligible.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
And my dad is from
"Robert Sean Brazil country": Tarrytown, N.Y.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Boy Scouts?

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Well, I think that it wasn’t enough just to want to convince Uncle
Robert and Auntie Elisabeth, and if I ever go looking for my hearts
desire again, I won’t look any further than my own backyard (i.e., the
Masonic Temple) because, if it isn’t there, I never really lost it to
begin with. Is that right?

I don't know but I certainly don't.

Then it is simply a non sequitur so far as you are concerned.

Is gHoulsby a member of SACC?

Beggars can't be choosers.

Well, I guess that Bob Brazil is beyond convincing at this stage.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Why don't you buy the book, Dave. (It's just a paperback.)
-------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter) wrote:

   Wow -- it *must* be something in the water!  And I thought that
loco weed was absent in the northeastern U.S.!

   No, Art; that would be B.S.A.  Get someone to read the dictionary
definition to you.

   Is English your native tongue, Art?

   Why not, Art?!  Aren't you well-liked by your coreligionists?!  You
live quite close to Dr. Stritmatter, so you and he could carpool to
the next S.O.S. or Fellowship nutfest together!

   More like _non compos_.

   Of course not, Art -- are you stylistically tone-deaf?  We in the
SACC regard creative ridicule as more effective than four-letter
epithets, even when the epithet may not be ill-bestowed.

   Point taken, Art.  I agree you and I differ in that respect.

   Huh?  I thought that you were trying to convince Roper, Art.  While
we're talking about people VERy far out on the lunatic fringe whom you
might try to persuade, Art, one would think that you might have some
success with Crowley or Streitz or Faker or Elizabeth or Little
Willie.  That you have had little or no success persuading any of the
above is an indication not so much of the meagerness of your powers of
persuasion (although no doubt that shortcoming played a role) as of
the curious fact that the lunatic fringe does not really exhibit the
structure of a continuum -- rather, it bifurcates frequently into a
sort of ramified tree of mutually incompatible idiosyncratic
lunacies.

   As I said before, Art, why on earth should I spend good money on
such deluded junk?  If you want me to read it, you'll need to send me
a copy.  You can just send it along in the same parcel with those
Landau and Lifshitz volumes that are no longer of any use to you.


author: Peter F.

subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
Michael Martin wrote:

Yes alright you win, Mike. My goodness, the lengths to which
some people will go to prove me wrong!

And yes, I'll miss you too.

Peter F.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> wrote:

[...]

   But Art -- the track at the 7-Eleven Velodrome in Colorado Springs
is 333 meters long!  And the oval in short-track speed skating is 111
meters, so three laps is 333 meters!  Are those structures Masonic
monuments as well, Art?

   I see that the web site refers to "art instruction with a certified
art teacher once a week"; should it have read "Art instruction with a
certified Art teacher once a week"?

   It must be something they put in the water, then -- Elisabeth Sears
is a rather notorious P.T./D.T. nutcase:

<http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com/?page_id=51>.

Her "monograph" _Oxford's REVenge_, jointly authored by h.l.a.s.'s own
Stephanie Caruana, also makes VERy entertaining reading -- the two of
them confuse the historian and Tudor drama specialist FREDERICK Boas
with the anthropologist FRANZ Boas therein, which is a gaffe a bit
like confusing an Emeritus Yale historian with an industrial plant
manager a quarter century younger.

   But if you grew up in Boston, how is it that you speak COBOL rather
than English, Art?

[...]

   Of course you didn't, Art -- because you *misunderstood* what she
said.

[...]

   Ask him and find out, Art.  I suspect that you might find the
experience rather like asking Mr. Streitz about aviation, or like
asking "Dr." Faker about the Apollo lunar landings.

   That was my point, Art; you're a bit slow on the uptake.  Besides,
being more like Farina is not exactly a desideratum, Art.  Farina's
web page contains a blatant contradiction: he says that he began
writing nonfiction in 2004, yet his _De Vere as Shakespeare_ is dated
2005.

   Is English your native tongue, Art?

   But our saboteurs did perform splendidly, and naturally I am proud
of my role in the endeavor.

   What "surprise" might that be, Art?  Having read h.l.a.s. for some
time, I am no longer surprised by any of the demented notions that
anti-Stratfordians come up with; formerly, I would have been surprised
that anyone with half a brain could have hallucinated Queen Victoria's
presence during World War I, as Elizabeth recently did, but nothing
surprises me any more.

   Since Derby is known to have done exactly that, I cannot see how
Oxford's "social status amongst England's ruling class," which Derby
shared, could have "debarred him from public acknowledgement."
Besides, Shakespeare's first published works were narrative poems, not
plays; why on earth would the Earl of Oxford have felt any compulsion
to conceal his supposed authorship of those works, since (1) he had
*already* written poems (at best, workmanlike VERse, and at worst,
doggerel) that were acknowledged and for which he received the fulsome
praise of contemporaries, and (2) the Queen herself wrote poetry?  You
clearly have not thought this through VERy carefully, Art -- not that
that's any surprise.

   It is most entertaining that many Oxfordians don't seem to regard
the Earl's reported pederasty with his Italian catamite as a disgrace,
but his authorship of some of the greatest poetry in the English
language would have been a disgrace beyond redemption in Oxfordians'
minds (such as they are).

   The age controlled the public voice with an iron fist?!  Was the
blurb above ghost-written by Mr. Streitz, perhaps?  It would be quite
difficult to find anyone else so unskilled in the use of English, even
among Oxfordians.

   "To efface an event from the memory of future generations"?!

   Was the above supposed to have been an English sentence?  If so,
*who* is supposed to have named de Vere as Shakespeare?  This sounds
like Elizabeth Weird's mythical list of contemporaries who said that
Bacon wrote the plays -- you know, the list that she has been
promising to produce for weeks, but which has neVER appeared, and
probably neVER will.

   This sounds like the usual lunatic-fringe nutcase stuff already
expounded by Streitz, Beauclerk, and countless other demented
Oxfordians, perhaps even displaying a hopelessness and haplessness as
a linguist worthy of Mr. Streitz himself.  Why should I bother reading
such lunatic-fringe delusions so incompetently expressed, Art?  What
on earth makes you think (usual disclaimer) that I would spend good
money on such junk?  If you want me to read it, you'll need to send me
a copy, along with those Landau and Lifshitz volumes that you promised
to send.

   There is nothing Artful about Lodgers, Art -- after all, the Lodge
conceals its secrets from cowans like you.  But you would make an
excellent Art-fool codger.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

#7: Masonic
#Eleven: Elks

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

At least I'm certified.
(I only give you these soft balls
because I take pity on you, Dave.)

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:
------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_River

<<The Charles River is fed by about 80 brooks and streams and several
major aquifers as it flows snakelike for 80 miles, starting at *ECHO*
Lake in Hopkinton, through 22 cities and towns in eastern
Massachusetts before emptying into Boston Harbor. 33 lakes and ponds
are entirely or partially part of the Charles River watershed.
Brandeis University, Harvard University, Boston University, and the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology are all located along the
Charles River.>>
------------------------------------------------
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:
------------------------------------------------
Boas will be Boaz (Jachin off):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaz_and_Jachin

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I've learned a lot since then.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

If I see him.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

He began writing it in 2004 and didn't get it published until 2005!!!

Talk about procrastination!!!

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

And your role was....?

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Acknowledgment of yours truly.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I'm trying to talk Dave Roper into my Masonic conspiracy ideas
instead.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

And you an excellent Fagin, Dave.

Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On 9 Aug, 11:30, Paul Crowley <[email]> wrote:

Apparently completely insane people can, too, evidently.
Look at you.

You seem very sure of this.

Yes, clearly you're very sure of this.

No more than Marmite might.

Again, you seem very sure of the impossibility of
the concept.

"...there is a lot..." or "...there are lots..."

In your case, Paul, nobody sane.

Mark.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Alfred E. Neumandorffer) wrote:

   He isn't, Art; I've told you that before, but your memory is
dysfunctional.  While you're considering what might be the silliest
thing you eVER heard, don't forget about that there was a crank who
opined in h.l.a.s. that Virgil predated Herodotus.

[...]

   Then we're in agreement that it's crackpot typographic
steganography?  Graciously conceded, Art!

[...]

   While more compost from Little Willie might indeed make his posts
ranker, they could scarcely be any cranker than they are already!

[...]

   No, Art; the Shakespeare Fellowship is (mostly) a bunch of nuts, as
is the S.O.S.

[...]

[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]

   I suspect that Mr. Innes might tell you that it's Whitman's
*campeler*, not "sampler," Art>

   But I thought that you grew up in the D.C. (or perhaps D.T.) area,
Art -- didn't you say that you attended George Mason Elementary School
at the outset of your misundereducation?  Besides, I already corrected
your misunderstanding of your "Scoop" nickname, Art -- your mother was
saying "Stoop," not "Scoop."  But I concede that you have left
h.l.a.s. habitués in need of an industrial strength VERsion of one of
these, Art:

<http://tinyurl.com/ye936e5>.

   Have you eVER asked Beauclerk about the Ten Lost Tribes, Art?  I
suspect that you might find it rather like asking Mr. Streitz about
aviation.  (Lord, what fools these morons be!)

[...]

   Because he was Farout on the lunatic fringe?  Our saboteurs did a
VERy professional job, didn't they, Art?


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

But he is, Dave; I've told you that before.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Nut, n. (Naut.) A projection on each side of the
shank of an *ANCHOR* , to secure the stock in place.
------------------------------------------------------
. King Henry VI, Part iii Act 3, Scene 3
.
QUEEN MARGARET: Why, is not *Oxford HERE another ANCHOR* ?
...Thanks, gentle Somerset; *SWEET OXFORD* , thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------
___          *E! O*   NLIE_ BEGET    [T]ER_\O\ FTHESEI
___         /N/ *S*   UING  SONNE    [T]SMR \W\ HALLH
__-        /A/ p[P I*  NES_ [S] EAND-[T]HA___\T\ ETERN
__-       /I/-Ti[E]p*R* OM- [I] SEDB Y OUR___ \E\ VER
__       /L/ IVi[N]gp *O.E* [T] WI[S]HETHTH___ \E\ W
_-      /E/llw I[S]hing ___ [A] DV[E]NTURERI___ \N\
-        S et TIN   Gfort  ____-HT[T]   <= 22 =>
----------------------------------------------------------------
.   "Dear son of MEMORY, great *HEIR of FAME*,
.       Under a STAR-y-pointing *PYRAMID* " -- Milton (1630)
.......................................................
An Ancre[ANCHOR]'s life to leade, with *NAILEs* to scratche my grave,
Where earthly *WORMES* on me shall fede, is all the joyes I crave;
And hide my self from *SHAME* , *sith that MYNE EYES DOE SEE* ,
Ah, a alantida my deare dame, hath thus tormented me. - *E.O.*
.
http://drk.sd23.bc.ca/DEVERe/Oxford Poems and Songs-18.pdf
http://www3.telus.net/oxford/oxfordspoems.html#3
..............................................
"Four Epytaphs made by the Countes of Oxenford,
after the death of her young Sonne, the Lord Bulbecke, &c."
.
Idall, for *ADON*, ne'er shed so many tears:
Nor Thet' for Pelid: nor Phoebus, for Hyacinthus
Nor for *ATIS*, the mother of Prophetesses:
As for the death of Bulbecke, the Gods have cares.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

You'll hafta 'splain that one, Dave.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Alexandria, Va., home of the 333ft. Masonic Temple.

1952-56
http://www.acps.k12.va.us/profiles/mason.php

HowEVER, my mom is from
"Elisabeth Sears country": Dedham, Massachusetts.

My dad was from "Washington Irving country":
Tarrytown, N.Y. (a half block from Sleepy Hollow Cemetery).

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I would nEVER have laughed at "Stoop."
---------------------------------------------
______   Finnegans Wake 18.18

(Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curios
of signs (please stoop), in this allaphbed! *Can you rede*
(since We and Thou had it out already) its world? It is the
same told of all. Many. Miscegenations on miscegenations.
Tieckle. They lived und laughed ant loved end left. Forsin.
---------------------------------------------

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Is that anything like the Ten Little Indians?

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Farouta?

Apparently. (I was already impressed on how long you had
postponed the picture getting made in the first place.)

Art Neuendorffer

P.S.,

Do you have your copy of David Roper's
Shakespeare: To Be Or Not To Be? yet, Dave?
-------------------------------------------
It holds a surprise for you. ;<)

http://www.orvid.co.uk/

Shakespeare: To Be Or Not To Be?

<<This book examines and analyses the evidence proposed in support of
William Shakespeare as the uncontested author of the plays and poems
published under that name. At the same time, this evidence is weighed
against the alternative proposal that Shakespeare acted as an allonym
for an author whose social status amongst England's ruling class
debarred him from public acknowledgement as a playwright working for
actors. The author clearly demonstrates that in an age which
controlled the public voice with an iron fist, it was left to
innuendo, puns, and the latest discovery in cryptology by the
mathematician, Cardano, to express what historian William Camden
confirmed was a conspiracy, organized  by the then present powers to
efface an event from the memory of future generations. The arguments
against this being Edward de Vere's authorship of the homo-erotic
sonnets addressed to the teenage Earl of Southampton, and the plays
characterizing members of Elizabeth's court, are contradicted by
contemporaneous written evidence from Jonson, Nashe, Chettle, Thorpe,
Marston, Digges, &c. who have either named or identified de Vere as
Shakespeare. Against this, the book examines the contrary evidence
adopted by conventional teaching that Shakespeare's authorship is
guaranteed by the First Folio, the Stratford Monument, Greene's Groats-
worth of Wit, Jonson's reference to Sweet Swan of Avon and the
composition of plays alleged to have been written after the death of
de Vere.>>

Available from July 2010   Price: £17.99

pages (6" X 9") with illustrations

Content:  Introduction. 1) Birth and Education. 2) A Marriage of
Uncertainties. 3) The Lost Years. 4) Greenes Groats-Worth of Witte. 5)
Venus and Adonis. 6) Shakespeare's Silence. 7) Silent Tongues Give
Praise. 8) Predating Venus & Adonis. 9) A Shakespeare First
Performance. 10) Shakespeare's Learning Curve. 11) Shakespeare Emerges
from the Shadows. 12) Shakespeare Named and Famed. 13) The Artful
Lodger. 14) Death of A Queen. 15) On the Banks of the Avon. 16) Early
Retirement. 17) The Stratford Years. 18) The Rival Poet. 19) The Dark
Lady. 20) A Scandalous Affair. 21) Will Shakspere gent. Deceased. 22)
The Stratford Monument. 23) The First Folio. -  Afterword, Appendix A,
Appendix B, Bibliography, Index
-------------------------------------------


author: Willedever

subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 5, 9:21 am, neufer <[email]> wrote:

The added phrase, undoubtedly authorial, relates back to this exchange
between Hamlet and Horatio in Scene 5:

~=~
Horatio: Oh, day and night, but this is wondrous strange!
Hamlet: And therefore, as a stranger, give it welcome;
~=~

By that, a "strange" return would be a welcome return.  The "strange"
phrase in the letter, then, gives Hamlet sarcastically saying that
Claudius should welcome him back.  Hamlet knows that Claudius will not
welcome his return, of course.

It amounts to an extremely sarcastic "welcome me back."  Claudius
knows nothing of Hamlet earlier equating "strange" and "welcome" while
talking to Horatio, so he is only puzzled by it.

And of course Hamlet's return is "welcome" to himself, as opposed to
being dead in England.

You needn't go through typographic contortions to come up with the
sword.  Hamlet's trip to England is suggestively likened (in Ophelia's
first "mad" song) to a pilgrimage to the shrine of St James of
Compostela, and the emblem of St James was (and is) The Sword.

Thus, the inference of The Sword is drawn from both close attention to
the play, and general knowledge, and is quite intentionally there,
from Shakespeare, in advance of the fencing match.  So I regret to
inform you, you invented a lopsided wheel, where a well balanced one
was already rolling.


author: lackpurity

subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 5, 9:21 am, neufer <[email]> wrote:

You mean to say that the life of the Great Dramatist was fabricated?

Michael Martin


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On 7 Aug, 01:39, lackpurity <[email]> wrote:

"Go suck yourfelf."
--Art Neuendorffer

Mark Houlsby


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 6, 6:15 pm,

Willedever <[email]> wrote:

Which happens to be in both quartos along with:

Ghost. Murther most foule, as in the best it is,
___  But this most foule, strange and vnnaturall.

Willedever <[email]> wrote:

That's the silliest thing I EVER heard!

........................................................
.   << *and more strange return. hamlet* >>
.
______________                            [H]
______________                            [A]
______________                            [M]
_     r o g e r  m a n n e r s,  e. r u t [L] a n d
______________                            [E]
______________                            [T]
______________                            [T]
-------------------------------------------------
This exchange between Hamlet and Marcellus in Scene 5:

Ham. Vppon my sword.

Mar. We haue sworne my Lord already.

Ham. Indeede vppon my sword, indeed.
-------------------------------------------------
Willedever

It's NOT typographic contortions to find an
extremely relevant name in the added text.
The name falls out naturally.

Willedever

There are more things in heaven and earth, Willedever,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On 7 Aug, 02:02, neufer <[email]> wrote:

There are more things in

than are dreamt of in Little Willy's entire existence.

Mark Houlsby


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 6, 8:02 pm, neufer <[email]> wrote:

I already know you're shit-head ignorant of 'Hamlet,' and all of
Shakespeare, Art.  And most other things, as well, obviously.

And there are more things in 'Hamlet,' and the works of Shakespeare,
than a shit-head loon like you will ever know, Art.  More's the pity.
If you ever did learn any Shakespeare, you might even enjoy it.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 6, 8:07 pm, Mark "Sub-Toad" Houlsby <[email]>
wrote:

We know.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 6, 5:15 pm, Willedever <[email]> wrote:

Laertes was a highly advanced disciple of Hamlet.  This is referring
to a Master/Disciple relationship.

Well, now Hamlet must explain to Laertes why he has returned.  This
won't be easy, as no doubt God told him to return, and God works in
mysterious ways.  Hamlet had to prepare the way for Fortinbras.

When a Messiah returns to earth, it is strange.  It's like the second-
coming of Christ.

Things have become chaotic, and so Hamlet was sent back.  It is
strange to everyone, but the Master is the epitome of good, whether we
think it strange, normal, or whatever.  Hamlet had to set the whole
situation right, then turn it over to Fortinbras.

He wants to carry out God's will.

Hamlet knew that fighting with the sword, would be part of his
duties.  He must have known that he would even kill his disciple,
Laertes, also.  He must have known that Ophelias was to dies.  Knowing
all that he had to carry out his STRANGE duties.

Michael Martin


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 6, 8:02 pm, neufer <[email]> wrote:

Ghosts are strange, but sometimes they communicate truths to us.

 Hamlet said to welcome it, because everything was inevitable.  Either
we can face our destiny, smilingly, or we can face it sadly.

Willedever seems closer to the truth, Art.

Michael Martin


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 5, 9:21 am, neufer <[email]> wrote:

What a joke!  You mean the ALLEGED conspiracy.  As if Marlowe was a
fictional character.  Incredible how Oxfordians think.

Let's see some proof that Marlowe as a fabricated life, then.  Don't
just stop with your fantasies.

Michael Martin


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter...or perhaps
Onlyonedafter) wrote:

[...]

   Really, Art?  Didn't you read Little Willie's earlier posts, the
ones in which his painstaking scholarship lovingly restores to the
text of _Hamlet_ the farts that Shakespeare somehow omitted from the
stage directions?  For an amusing sample, see

<http://tinyurl.com/37tocr4>.

For that matter, haven't you been following Elizabeth's Reign of Error
-- North Korean submarine attacks on gulf oil platforms, Claudius
banishing Ovid to Yugoslavia, Milton founding Freemasonry nearly two
decades after his death, Newton disputing priority for the discovery
of calculus with Hegel, Michelson winning the first Nobel Prize in
physics, Clara Longworth de Chambrun being ignominiously expelled from
England to waste the rest of her life moldering in Ohio writing
genealogies, etc.?  And have you forgotten "Dr." Faker's solution to
Fermat's Last Theorem, his "explanation" of mass/energy equivalence,
and his fulminations about the supposed Apollo lunar landing "hoax"?
There was even an h.l.a.s. moron a while back who said that Virgil
came before Herodotus!  While Little Willie's post was indeed silly,
it certainly cannot be the silliest thing you eVER heard, unless your
memory has completely ceased to function!

   Perhaps not; it's more like crackpot cryptography.

   Willedever what?  Go on, Art -- finish your thought (usual
disclaimer in force).

   While this is a rare exception, most of Little Willie's glosses
smell more of Compost than of Compostela.

   One might liken Little Willie's "well balanced" intellectual diet
to a bunch of nuts -- eVERy nut weighs the same.

   ...or perhaps trolling...

See

<http://tinyurl.com/36cxjv3>,

Art.  No doubt you'll find it enlightening.

   Consider this list, Art: PWDBard ("Buckeye Pete"), Mr. Streitz, Mr.
Crowley, Little Willie, Beauclerk, Brame and Popova, "Dr." Faker, Okay
Fine, etc. -- don't your coreligionists, with their formidable
erudition and intellectual acuity, make you proud, Art?  And isn't it
gratifying (if not Stratifying) to know that they all feel the same
way about you?


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

I stand corrected.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

It's more like typographic steganography.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
.    Hamlet, Prince of Denmark  Act 3, Scene 4

HAMLET: it is not madness
.   That I have utter'd: bring me to the test,
.   And I the matter will re-word; which madness
.   Would gambol from. Mother, for love of grace,
.   Lay not that mattering unction to your soul,
.   That not your trespass, but my madness speaks:
.   It will but skin and film the ulcerous place,
.   Whilst rank corruption, mining all within,
.   Infects unseen. Confess yourself to heaven;
.   Repent what's past; avoid what is to come;
.   And do not spread the *COMPOST* on the weeds,
.   To make them ranker.
-------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela

<<Folk etymology for the name "Compostela" is that it comes from the
Latin  "Campus Stellae" (i.e. Field of Stars), but it is unlikely such
a phonetic evolution takes account of normal evolution from Latin to
Galician-Portuguese. A more probable etymology relates the word with
Latin "compositum", and local Vulgar Latin "Composita Tella", meaning
"burial ground" as a euphemism.>>
-------------------------------------------------

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Life's a bunch of nuts; you nEVER know what you're gonna get.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Willedever...a well balanced wheel???

More like an unbalanced schlamiel.

nordicskiv2 <[email]> wrote:

Free Willy Mason!!

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

Art Neuendorffer


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 neufer <[email]> (aka Noonedafter...or perhaps
Onlyonedafter) wrote:

[...]

   Absolutely, Art -- and while you're at it, don't forget the one
about Ann Hathaway being Shakespeare's mother!

   All right, then: crackpot typographic steganography.

   Your judgment is being warped by a sampling bias effect, Art --
you're judging life by h.l.a.s., which has had far more than its share
of anti-Stratfordian cranks and hence a much higher proportion of nuts
than likely exists in the general population.

   Is Yiddish your native tongue, Art?  But "unbalanced" is certainly
an understatement.

[...]

   From me?!  When have you eVER known me to be sarcastic, Art?!  But
I really cannot understand how anti-Stratfordians can avoid aVERting
their eyes in pained embarrassment when they view the extraordinary
follies of their crackpot coreligionists.  Little Willie's commentary
on _Hamlet_ is a good example, but so are Mr. Crowley's ludicrous
pontifications, Buckeye Pete's bizarre rants, Brame and Popova's
"VERitable lunacy," as I believe that Tom Veal denominated it, Mr.
Streitz's hilarious book, "Dr." Faker's forays into mathematics and
science (not to mention his unfamiliarity with either alphabetical
order or the contents of his own record collection), and Elizabeth's
farcical forays into virtually any subject, from physics to history to
linguistics to geology to modern foreign languages to atmospheric
science to English.  It's truly an extraordinary spectacle.


author: elizabeth weir

subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On Aug 4, 2:51 pm, neufer <[email]> wrote:

One word.  Necrophilia.


subject: Re: Peter Farey changes tune

text:
On 8 Aug, 17:43, elizabeth weir <[email]> wrote:

"I like necrophilia, bestiality and flagellation,
but I think I'm flogging a dead horse."
--Woody Allen