subject: Ship Modeling FAQ, Part 15/15 (WWW: 29K)

text:
Archive-name: ship-models-faq/part15
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Expires: Fri, 2 August 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Last-modified: 26 June 1996

This is the Frequently Asked Questions FAQ (part 15) on ship modeling.

Obligatory Disclaimer: The information contained in this message was
contributed by individuals, who, unless otherwise indicated, speak
only for themselves and not the institutions or businesses they are
associated with.  The author(s) and editor(s) of this material make no
warranties as to the correctness of the information provided.

This material should be considered copyright by the author(s).  This
material may be redistributed for non-commercial use without explicit
permission of the author(s) as long as the text is used exactly as is
(except for reformatting) and the author(s) is given full written credit
for the material.  Commercial use requires explicit permission of the
author(s).

The questions being addressed are listed in part 01 of the FAQ.

        ###################################################

105.    What's available on the WWW?
     A. LOTS!
        This section is for WWW (access using Lynx, Mosiac, Netscape,
        etc.).

 NOTE:  See part 01 for the interpretation of these addresses.

 NOTE:  I record these addresses, but don't necessarily visit them on a
        regular basis.  Thus, I may not know if they "disappear".  If
        you try to access one and it appears to be no longer available,
        please send me Email at: mailto:[email] ; I'll check it
        out and delete the reference if it's really gone.  Thanks.

"Maritime History":  a GREAT!!! WWW location, maintained by Lars
Bruzelius:
    http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/WWW/Nautica/Nautica.html .

"The Information Seaway" (Clay Feldman's Seaways' Ships in Scale page)
is at:
    http://www.seaways.com .

Information on the "Nautical Research Guild" (brochure, etc.), have been
placed on:
    http://www.icubed.net/usr/dbrown .

Information on Bronze casting can be found at:
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/brnzcaster .

"Miniature Ship Models", 1:2400 and 1:3000 scale waterline
ships, at:
    http://www.cabm.rutgers.edu/~hooper/miniatures/bill/navmod24.html .

"RC-Sailing Infocenter" (RC Sailboats, from Finland), at:
    http://honeybee.helsinki.fi/surcp/rcsail.htm .

"From Keel to Truck - De la quille a la pomme du mat - Vom Kiel zum
Flaggenknopf - De Quilla a Perilla - Dalla Chiglia al pomo dell'Arbero" =
-- an excerpt of captain Paasch's famous dictionary of maritime terms.
At:
    http://www.refer.fr/termisti/data/vergues/index.htm .

"The World of the Vikings" This is an excellent guide to Vikings
resources on the Internet; also selling a CD-ROM on the Subject:
    http://www.demon.co.uk/history/vikings/vikhome.html .

"Viking Navy" home page (thoughts on Viking ships), at:
    http://www.digalog.com/viking/ .

"MC-Link Nautical Home Page", at:
    http://www.mclink.it/n/nautica/indice.htm (Italian Version).

"Minesweeper" (the game), at:
    http://www.linc.or.jp/~hamano/game/minesweeper.html

"National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS)", at:
    http://kingfish.ssp.nmfs.gov/ .

"Berkeley Digitak Library SunSite" permits you to search a large list
of on-line libraries:
    http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/searchsite .

The rec.models.scale FAQs are available at:                     *NEW*
    http://www.dtm-corp.com/~sven/models/rms_tips/rmsfaq.1.html .

Thomas Register. Yes! it's online and you can search it too! The URL is:
    http://www.thomasregister.com/ .

"Nautical Book Lists" (and related files),
"Great Encouragement to Boatwrights",
"Design and Construction of Centerboards and Rudders", and
"Mail-Order Sources for Nautical Books" can all be accessed via:
    http://www.efn.org/~jkohnen/nautical.html .

The Story of the Titanic, a recapture of the basic facts about the
ship and the catastrophy.  At:
    http://www.ida.his.se/ida/~a94hango/titanic.chtml .

"RMS Titanic 83 Years Later". The Virginia Newspaper Project examines
the news; covering the sinking of RMS Titanic, April 14, 1912; at:
    http://www.lib.virginia.edu/cataloging/vnp/titpref.html .

"Canadian Maritimes '95" -  A cruise of the schooner Black Pearl, the
ketch Christobal, the frigate Rose, and other ships northwards via the
Canadian Maritimes, at:
    http://www.image-earth.com .

"rec.models.scale WWW Page", at:
    http://meteor.anu.edu.au/~dfk/scale_model.html .

There's a page on Photo Etching at:
    http://phoenix.bath.ac.uk/~justinw/two_mm/etch/etch.html .

"Trireme Olympics", at:
    http://www.eng.ox.ac.uk/~cascrd/trireme.html .

"Welcome to Tugboat.COM", at:
    http://www.tugboats.com .

R/C Submarines, at:
    http://home.aol.com/dmeriman .

"Ships In Bottles Home Page" (From Artem Popov in Russia);
                                        mailto:[email] :
    http://194.85.117.36/R_CLUB/H_PARK/SHIP/ship_e.htm .

"Urban Fredriksson's paint matching tables", at:
    http://msowww.anu.edu.au/~dfk/tech/colour.html .

        Lists of Links to Other Sites
        =============================

Lars Bruzelius also has additional resources at:
    http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/ ,
        ...one of which is a set of pointers to other maritime sites at:
    http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/www/Nautica/Pointers.html .)

"A Guide to Maritime History Information on the Internet", at:
    http://ils.unc.edu/maritime/home.html .

"Guide to Museums and Cultural Resources on the Web"; (Natural History
Museum of Los Angeles County); links to (general) museums, at:
    http://www.lam.mus.ca.us/webmuseums .

Larry Barker's "Boating", at:
    http://www.teleport.com/~lgbarker/boating.html .

"Maritime HomePage", at:
    http://www.webcom.com/~maritime/welcome.html .

"Mark Rosenstein's Sailing Page", at:
    http://community.bellcore.com/mbr/sailing-page.html .

"Museum Information"; at Oxford, UK; links to (general) museums, at:
    http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/other/museums/info.html .

"Stephen's Home Page", mostly pointers to other well known sites. at:
    http://gpu.srv.ualberta.ca/~sjones/index.html .

"TOP 10 WEB RESOURCES for rec.models.scale"; pointers to other sites.
at:
    http://www.phoaks.com/phoaks/rec/models/scale/ .

        Model Boating & Clubs
        =====================

"Art's Home Page" (includes RC boats), at:
    http://www.biddeford.com/~agertlof .

"Bay Area Electric Boaters" (Tampa Bay, FL), at:
    http://members.gnn.com/tinybeetle/baeb.htm .

"CY Online" (Canadian Yachting magazine), is proud to announce its
partnership with the CANADIAN RADIO YACHTING ASSOCIATION, at:
    http://www.canyacht.com/canyacht .

"The Cyberspace Model Yacht Club", at:
    http://www.cybercom.net/~mainwaring/modelboating.html .

"Electric Racing" page from Germany:
    http://user.aol.com/matthiasbo/index.html .

"Friends of the Schooner Model Society", at:
    http://www.pittelli.com/schooner/ , or at:
    http://www.webcharts.com/schooner/ .

"International R/C Warship Combat Club" at:
    http://www.pittelli.com/warship .

"St. Michaels Model Boat Club", at:
    http://www.pittelli.com/st.michaels/ .

"Gig Harbor Model Yacht Club", at:
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Kelly_Martin .

"Maryland Attack Group" (mainly R/C combat with some scale      *NEW*
and some sail) see National IR/CWCC site at:
    http://www.netcharts.com/warship/ .

"Model Boats", at:
    http://www.bendigo.net.au/~jstein/mboat.html .

"PMCG's Vicious Model Boat Page", at:
    http://www.tiac.net/users/pmcg/boat.html .

"The Home of the Big Gun R/C Warship Combat", at:
    http://www.pacificnet.net/~rkehr/big-gun1.htm .

"R/C Warship Combat FAQ", at:
    http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/HTML/RC/F_Ship_Kombat.html .

"RC-Boat site" at:                                              *NEW*
    http://www.in.net/rc-boat/

"Seattle Model Yacht Club", at:
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Larry_Robinson/homepage.htm .

"South Bay Model Shipwrights", at:
    http://home.earthlink.net/free/gswiercz1/webdocs/sbms.html .

"Task Force 72"; A group of RC ship modellers in Australia, who build
scale warships at a constant 1/72 scale have set up a page of info at:
    http://www.healey.com.au/~mkear/tf72.html .

"U.S. Vintage Model Yacht Group". at:
    http://www.swcp.com/usvmyg

        Ship Model Dealers and Suppliers
        ================================

"Amazon Bookstore" -- The main page indicates that they have over
1,000,000 books. It is easy to search.  At:                     *NEW*
    http://www.amazon.com/ .

"ABL SHIP MODELS" 'builds all kinds of scale ship models to order. All
models are from kiln dry mahogany, accurately and carefully hand built.
We have been producing models for 20 years and have been exporting to
the United States for 8 years.', at:
    http://www.transend.com.tw/~stuart/abl/index.html .

"Rising Tide Music" from Epcom Communications, a maritime recording
studio, at:
    http://www.cygnus.nb.ca/epcom//index.html .

"Floating Drydock" has a page at:
    http://www.usbusiness.com/drydock/ .
                                (mailto:[email]) .

"FX Models"; operational and static miniatures for movies/productions
and sale of submarine kits for display/operation. At:
    http://www.thenerve2.com/fxmodels .

"Hobby Link Japan", at:
    http://www.iac.co.ip/~hljl .

"King RC Online Hobby Shop", at:
    http://www.twinds.com/kingrc/kingrc.htm .

Metal Buyers Mart is your source for small quantity metal (for catalog,
                                        mailto:[email]), at:
    http://www.execpc.com/~metal .

"Nature Coast Hobby Shop" mail order historic wood ship models, at:
    http://naturecoast.com/hobby .

"Nautica On Line" (Nautica is the first Italian yachting magazine
(over 30 years old) and Nautica On Line is the *first* italian yachting
magazine - perhaps the first in Europe - going on the Web.)  At:
    http://www.mclink.it/nautica/indexeng.htm .

"Pacific Front Hobbies Web page", at:
    http://users.aol.com/pacfront/ .

Reality Software (mailto:[email]) has a samples of a
Screen Saver; "Tall Ships Classic Sailboats", at:
    http://www.maine.com:80/reality/tallshps.html .

One of the best known makers of plastic kits is now on the web. *NEW*
They do produce some ship models in plastic. Their website also
announces new kits and reissues.
    http://www.revell-monogram.com .
  ..They are now owned by Binney-Smith (the crayola people) there is a
  link to:
    http://www.crayola.com where you can learn the history and
  manufacturing process for crayolas.

"Squadron" mailorder's homepage; this is a supplier of plastic kits
(aviation, armor, and modern warship) they also publish books and
sell other modeling supplies. They import a lot of kits from eastern
europe. At:                                                     *NEW*
    http://www.squadron.com

"Seaworthy Small Ships" makes a line of wooden model boat kits
which are designed to be easily constructed and then mounted on a
provided stand or sailed on your local pond.  The line includes
sailboats of mostly historic designs such as the Chesapeake bay
Skipjack and "power" boats which have rubber band motors.  The models
are between 8 and 16 inches (20 to 40 cm) in length.
 They also sell full size plans and patterns for three sailboat models
which are ideal for class projects and youth groups.  The 16" "Fiji"
trimaran is designed to be made from styro-foam insulation board.  One
sheet of material makes 50 models.  At:
    http://azinet.com/seacat.html ,     or send e-mail to:
                                        mailto:[email]
                                        and they will send you an e-mail
                                        version of the catalog.

You will find the Traplet Publications site (publishers of Marine
Modelling) at:
    http://www.traplet.co.uk/traplet/
  ...and specifically Marine is at:
http://www.traplet.co.uk/traplet/MMM.html .

"the most beautiful half hulls ever made", at:
    http://www.ezone.com/model/ .

"Welcome to East Coast Model Center" (primarily RC models), at:
    http://www.peinet.pe.ca/ECMC/ .  A list of all model boat kits is at:
    http://www.peinet.pe.ca/ECMC/cat_bk.htm .

"The Woodworking Catalog", at:
    http://www.woodworking.com/ .

        Books and Book Shops
        ====================

"The Patrick O'Brian Page", at:
    http://www.princeton.edu/~joes/surprise.html .

"Databoat", boat plans and marine related books.  At:
    http://www.databoat.com .

"The entire Fernhurst Books catalog". at:
    http://www.paw.com/sail/Fernhurst .

"Nautical Brass", a bimonthly illustrated magazine for the collector's
of nautical antiques.
    http://www.supernet.net/commerce/nbrass.htm .

"Warsash Nautical Bookshop" (in England), at:
    http://www.aladdin.co.uk/wnbooks/ .

        Pointers to sites of maritime interest
        ======================================

"The Cunard Archives" (University of Liverpool), at:
    http://www.liv.ac.uk/~archives/cunard/chome.htm .

"The Knotting Dictionary of Kannet", at:
    http://www.netg.se/~jan/old_knot.htm .

"The Miramar" life on board the motor vessel Miramar sailing in the
Pudget Sound. at:
    http://www.seanet.com/Users/deanl/miramar.html .

"The Pirate Page" at:
    http://www2.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/pirates/piratepage.html .

"Peabody Essex Museum", at:
    http://www.pem.org/
...includes:  "Marine Paintings & Drawings". A marvellous collection of
80 marine paintings from the collections of the Essex Peabody Museum,
Salem, MA, USA.  These pictures are well-known to anyone who have
studied the beautiful catalogues of the collection by the Brewingtons
and P.C.F. Smith.  At:
    http://www.pem.org/maritm3.htm

Plans ??? (in German), at:
    http://www.uni-duisburg.de/THP/WeitereFF/schiff.html

"The Marine Art Information Center" is a picture gallery of
marine watercolours and paintings supplemented by information on
auctions,galleries, reference materials  and museums focusing on
maritime art. Also included are WWW entry points for marine art,
photographs and sounds. At:
    http://www.marineart.com .

        Miscellaneous
        =============

"The Antique and Classic Boat Society", Pacific North West Chapter
(of USA).  At:
    http://www.halcyon.com/pford/acbsx.htm .

"The Cutty Sark Tall Ships Race:, at:
    http://www.ftech.co.uk/~channel/wfest/pages/tsgall.htm .

"Guillemot Kayaks". Kayak building information includes information on
strip building and stitch and glue, and traditional (baidarka)
techniques from the New England area. The primary emphasis is on sea
kayaks.  At:
    http://www.mindport.net/~schade/Kayak.html .

"MS Estonia disaster", at:
    http://www.viabalt.ee/News/sos/ .

"Call me Fishmeal", at:
    http://www.well.com/www/pk/fishmeal.html .

"Interactive Marine Observations". A visual interface to the lastest
worldwide marine weather information being reported by automated
weather stations.  At:
    http://thunder.met.fsu.edu/~nws/buoy/ .

"International Council for the Exploration of the Sea", at:
    http://www.ices.dk/ .

"International maritime signal flags", at:
    http://155.187.10.12/flags/signal-flags.html ,
  and their meaning, at:
    http://155.187.10.12/flags/signal-meaning.html .

"The Semaphore Flag Signalling System.", at:
    http://155.187.10.12/flags/semaphore.html .

"Metal Web News" (Metal-working stuff, including that FAQ), at:
    http://tbr.state.tn.us/~wgray/index.html .

"British Waterways Official Website", at:
    http://www.rscom.com/boat/ .

"Bill's Lighthouse Getaway". This travelog of US east and west-coast
lighthouses now includes over 40 lights, plus other info for the
lighthouse fanatic.  At:
    http://zuma.lib.utk.edu/lights/ .

"Aquanaut" (scuba diving), at:
    http://www.aquanaut.com .

"The Nautical Art Home Page". Empty so far.  At:
    http://bighorn.terra.net/artonline/aol/naut.html .

"Det Norske Veritas", a maritime classification society established
1864, at:
    http://www.dnv.no/Welcome.html .

"The Poseidon Project", at:
    http://velox.stanford.edu/hellas/poseidon.html .

"Welcome to Salem, Massachusetts", at:
    http://www.star.net/salem/default.htm .

"The Scale Models Forum", at:
    http://www.startext.net/interact/models.htm

"The Steamships of Stockholm", at:
    http://sics.se/~jussi/steamer.html .

"Ron Ginger's Home Page" A Model Boat builder. Also information on the
"Traditional Small Craft Association", "TSCA of Peabody Museum" and
"North America Model Engineer Show". At:
    http://www.ultranet.com/~ginger/

There's  collection of pointers to individual ships, at:
    http://www.novagate.com/~schoonerman/tall.htm .

"Wooden Boat" magazine now has a web site, at:
    http://www.woodenboat.com .

        Sailing Ships
        =============

"Age of Sail Page" at:
    http://www.cs.yale.edu/HTML/YALE/CS/HyPlans/loosemore-sandra/sail.html .

"Angelo Mascaro Sailing Page" at the following url:
    http://www.inrete.it/vela/vela.html (Italian)
  English readers might prefer the following:
    http://www.inrete.it/vela/sail.html

"Armada de la Libertecute" sail training ships at Rouen, France,
celebrating the 50th anniversary of the D-Day." (17 July, 1994) at:
    http://www.cnam.fr/Images/Armada/ .

"BREST 96" The international meeting of ships and sailors,
13 to 20 July 1996. at:
    http://www.enst-bretagne.fr:3000/anglais/Home_page_gb.html .

"Battleship Cove", (Fall River, Mass.), at:
    http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/jack/mamie.html .

"Bluenose II Preservation Trust", at:
    http://fox.nstn.ca:80/~bluenos2/ .

"The Continental Sloop Providence Unofficial Home Page", at:
    http://shakti.trincoll.edu:80/~jconstan/providence.html .

"A History of Ships Named Enterprise", at:
    http://www.ee.umanitoba.ca/~djc/startrek/SNE.html .

"The Marco Polo reconstruction project" at:
    http://www.cygnus.nb.ca/epcom/marcopolo/project.html .

"Sail Training Association (STA)" (Southampton and Salisbury, England)
at:
    http://www.soton.ac.uk/~sta1/ .

"Salem Builds a Tallship". A re-construction of the Friendship built
in Salem 1797.  At:
    http://www.star.net/salem/tallship.htm .

"Pandora" (the one associated with the HMS Bounty) is at:
     http://wavefront.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/pandora.html .

"48^ North - The Northern Sailing Magazine", at:
    http://www.gosailing.com/
  ...it contains "Lady Washington - Revisiting Our [American] Maritime
  Heritage".  A reconstruction of the 1788 brig Lady Washington, which
  was launched in 1989, is operated by the Grays Harbor Historical
  Seaport, Aberdeen, WA; at:
    http://www.gosailing.com/ladywash.html .

"The three-masted schooner Linden", of Mariehamn, Aland (Finland, in
Finnish), at:
    http://www.aalnet.aland.fi:80/Hotell/linden .

"The Maritime Hertitage Alliance" The Madeline is a reconstruction of a
mid 19th century fore and aft schooner built by the non-profit
organisation the Maritime Heritage Alliance, Traverse City, MI, in 1990.
At:
    http://ns1.win.net/~torresen/madeline.htm .

"Sailing with the Pride of Baltimore II", at:
    http://cvinet.com/pride/del/ .

"The S. S. Canadiana Preservation Society, Inc", at:
    http://www.localnet.com/~fbaker/canadiana/canadiana.html .

"Thames Barge - Marie May". The restoration of a Thames Barge built by
Hutsons of Maidstone in 1920, at:
    http://www.aladdin.co.uk/sihe/mariemay.htm .

"The SS Cherokee Belle", a place for Steamboat Buffs and Mark Twain
fans to share stories and information, at:
    http://www.acy.digex.net/~capnmark/home.html .

 Maritime Museums and Research Projects (including Nautical Archaeology)
 =======================================================================

"The Channel Islands Marine Archaeology Resources (CMAR)", along with
their newsletter, Wreckscatter. at:
    http://weber.u.washington.edu/~nailgun/cmar .

"Combined Caesarea Expeditions Underwater Excavations", at:
    http://www.carleton.ca/~ereinhar/CaesareaHome.html .

"Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic", Lunenburg, NS, Canada.  At:
    http://www.ednet.ns.ca./educ/museum/fma.html .

The FSU Underwater Archaeology program; at:
    http://www.dos.state.fl.us/sos/divisions/historical_resources/hist.html .

"Historical Diving Society"; at:                (mailto:[email])
    http://diveweb.com/hds/hds.htm .

Index to underwater archaeology resources on the Internet, with some
very useful information about Scuba diving and other underwater
archaeology.  Its URL is:
    http://fiat.gslis.utexas.edu/~trabourn/underwater.html

"Kelsey Museum Educational and Outreach Programs" (University of
Michigan; Archaeology), at:
    http://classics.lsa.umich.edu/Kelsey/Outreach.html .

"The Life-Saving Museum Scrapbook", at:
    http://www.infi.net/~cwt/life-sav.html .

"L'archaeologie sous les mers, techniques et recherches" une exposition
de la Mission de la recherche et de la Maison des sciences de l'homme au
Muse; archeologique de Nice-Cimiez du 27 mai au 4 septembre 1994 ey ai
siege central du CNRS du 14 novembre au 7 decembre 1994. (The french
ministry of culture is pleased to announce a virtual exhibition on the
Web dedicated to sub-marine archeology.) At:
    http://www.culture.fr/culture/archeosm/archeosm.htm .

"Mariner's Museum" (Newport News, VA), at:
    http://www.infi.net/mariner .

"Maritime Museum of the Atlantic", Halifax, NS, Canada.  At:
    http://www.ednet.ns.ca./educ/museum/mma.html

"The Maritime Museum of Portugal", at:
    http://www.madinfo.pt/museumar/welcomei.htm .

"Mystic Seaport", at:
    http://www.mystic.org/ .

"MIL-HIST" (Military History), at:
    http://www.olcommerce.com/cadre/milhist/index.html .

"National Maritime Museum" (Greenwich, England), at:
    http://ihr.sas.ac.uk/ihr/maritime/maritime.mnu.html .

"North Carolina Maritime Museum", at:
    http://www.agr.state.nc.us/maritime/index.htm .

Northern Maritime Research has          (mailto:[email])
the "Northern Shipwreck Database" (50,000+ record wreck database),
at:
    http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ad514/Profile.html .

SeaLore is the Internet homeport for the "Mary Rose Virtual Maritime
Museum", Portsmouth, England the tallship "HMS" Rose, a working example
of a 18th c. British navy frigate.  HMS Rose was recently featured in
a two page spread in the July 3rd issue of Forbes magazine. It's at:
    http://www.synergy.net/homeport.html , and at:
    http://www.compulink.co.uk/~yama/news95.htm , and a site dedicated
 to educational visits at:
    http://www.compulink.co.uk/~mary-rose/ ;
                                mailto:[email] .

"Nautical Archaeology Program at Texas A&M University and the
Institute of Nautical Archaeology", at:         mailto:[email]
    http://nautarch.tamu.edu .  Also publishes "INA Quarterly".

"The American Tallship "HMS" Rose"  The Rose's history, construction,
rigging and history, as well as a photo gallery, at:
    http://shakti.trincoll.edu/~jconstan/hmsrose/home.html .

"Set Sail on the Delaware" an Exhibition at the Franklin Institute
Science Museum.  At:
    http://sln.fi.edu/tfi/exhibits/ships.html.

"Hart Nautical Collection" at MIT, Cambridge, MA, USA. At:
    http://web.mit.edu/museum/www/collections/hart.html .

"Guide to Historic Ship Wrecks" in Great Britain. Descriptions of 41
wreck sites designated under the Protection of Wrecks Act of 1973. At:
    http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/ukdiving/misc/deswreck.htm .

"Great Lakes Visual/Research, Inc." (GLV/R), a consulting firm  *NEW*
in maritime history and archaeology currently located in Lansing,
Michigan, has opened its web site for visitation, review, and comment.
The GLV/R web page features images from the underwater archaeological
excavation of the Great Lakes scow schooner ROCKAWAY at South Haven,
Michigan.  At:
    http://www.sojourn.com/~azhran/web/index.html .

Michael Dun at the Scottish Institute of Maritime Studies has links to
lists of maritime museums and other information, data on Maritime Fife
in Scotland, and examples of Letters of Marque.
    http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_sa/personal/md4/index.html .

"The Steamer William G. Mather Museum" (Cleveland, Ohio). An excellent
presentation of this museum.  Includes links to other Great Lakes sites.
At:
    http://little.nhlink.net/wgm/wgmhome.html .

The Pan-American Institute for Marine Archaeology is at:
    http://www.wbm.ca/users/nfisher/ .

"Underwater Shipwreck State Parks and Historic Sites", at:
    http://www.indiana.edu:80/~scuba/project.html

"Statens Sjohistoriska Musett", Stockholm. The National Maritime Museum
of Sweden.  At:
    http://www.telemuseum.se/museer/SSHM/Home.HTML .

"Three Facets of Maritime Archaeology: Society, Landscape and Critique"
by Anthony Firth, University of Southampton. At:
    http://avebury.arch.soton.ac.uk/Research/Firth/ .

"The "Wasa" Museum", Stockholm. At:
    http://www.sunet.se/stockholm/museums/vasa/vasa.html .

"Underwater Archaeology", at:
    http://www.brown.edu/Research/Underwater_Archaeology/bfd/ .

"Velkommen til Nationalmuseet", The National Museum of Denmark, at:
    http://WWW.NATMUS.MIN.DK/ .
  ...You can select the "Newsletter from Roskilde" (the Museum
  Newsletter from Denmark) by selecting the link "Publikationer pe
  nettet". You can also select "English Version".

There is a picture of what may be a removable Norman boat head from
the marsh at the Norman Invasion site at Hastings.  At:         *NEW*
    http://www.cablenet.net/pages/book/corresp/heads2.htm .

"The Western Australian Maritime Museum" this server is still at an
experimental stage. This site is currently overloaded with graphics
which together with a SLOW!! link gives poor performance.  With lots of
info on the Maritime Museum, Dutch and other shipwrecks in this corner
of the globe, and on the Departments of Maritime Archaeology and of
Maritime History in Western Australia, as well as hypertext links
to other sites.  At:
    http://www.mm.wa.gov.au/Museum.html .

A related site for "The Australian Institute for Nautical Archaeology"
is at:
    http://www.mm.wa.gov.au/Museum/aima/Bulletin18_2/Index.html .

        Research Ships
        ==============

"World Ocean Circulation Experiment (WOCE) Cruise A23" at:
    http://www.mth.uea.ac.uk/ocean/a23/welcome.html

The Marine Tech group of Oregon State University College of Oceanographic and
Atmospheric Sciences has brought up a new Mosaic Home Page for their ship R/V
WECOMA.  It is available at:
    http://www.oce.orst.edu/Wecoma/WecomaHome.html .

"National Oceanic and Atmospheric Adminstration (NOAA), at:
    http://www.noaa.gov ; and:
"Fleet Replacement and Modernization" at:
    http://www.noaa.gov/fleet.html .

"Research Ship Information and Cruise Schedules" at:
    http://diu.cms.udel.edu/ships/ship_menu.html .

"The Alfred Wegener Institute" for Polar and Marine Research.  At:
    http://www.awi-bremerhaven.de .
  - also, a picture of R/V Polarstern at:
    http://www.awi-bremerhaven.de/Pics/Polarstern.jpeg .

        Naval
        =====

"Real Time Support for the Warrior", from The Advanced Information
Technology Branch of the Naval Research Laboratory at:
    http://www.ait.nrl.navy.mil/rts/warrior.html .

"Combat Boat 90H", a Swedish assault boat for amphibious landings. At:
    http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-pek/sboat.html .

"Fighting Ships of Pearl Harbor", at:
    http://www.autometric.com/AUTO/html/must_see.html#fighting_ships .

"Naval Historical Center"; contains a LOT of info               *NEW*
about where to get info on ships and naval history from the American
Revolution to present, FAQs, Publication Information, other websites,
and commercial resources for Naval Research; at:
    http://www.history.navy.mil .

"Naval Surface Warfare Center" Carderock Division. Formerly the David
Taylor Model Basin.  At:
    http://www50.dt.navy.mil .

"Navy Pages" maintained by Andrew Toppan;       (mailto:[email])
(includes weekly photo feature on various topics) at:
    http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/navy.html .

"Welcome to NavyOnLine" at:
    http://www.ncts.navy.mil .

"The Naval Postgraduate School", Monterey, CA, at:
    http://www.nps.navy.mil .

Edward Smyth's "Shipping and Nautical Info" at:
    http://boris.qub.ac.uk/edward/Ships.html .

"Operation Deadlight", the name assigned the operation which resulted
in the scuttling of over 100 German U-boats by the Royal Navy; at:
    http://rvik.ismennt.is/~gummihe/Uboats/dlight.htm .

"Welcome Aboard", at:
    http://www.eas.pdx.edu/~jgriffin/navy.htm .

"State of the Russian Navy", at:
    http://webcom.com/~amraam/rnav.html .

"Allied Command Atlantic" at:
    http://www.saclant.nato.int .

"United States Naval Academy" at Annapolis, MD, is on-line at:
    http://www.nadn.navy.mil/
  (check out the Preble Museum at:
     http://www.nadn.navy.mil/Museum ,
  and the Henry Huddleston Rogers ship model collection, at:
    http://www.nadn.navy.mil/Museum/gallery.html ).

"U.S. Coast Guard", at:
    http://www.dot.gov/dotinfo/uscg/ .

"Ron Martini's Navy Submarine Base" at:
    http://wave.sheridan.wy.us/~rontini/ronpage.html .

"NavyOnLine", at:
    http://www.navy.mil .

"NAVAL SEA CADETS' WWW site", at:
    http://www.tucson.com/nscc

"Royal Navy World Wide Web", at:                        *NEW*
    http://www.open.gov.uk/navy/rnhm.htm .


author: Public

subject: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
Our fearless unelected leader has declared he will lower the top tax rate
for the rich from 39% to 33% and raise the working class tax rate 6% in
order so that the rich will create more grunt labor service industry jobs
like working at Macdonalds, Walk-mart etc. It's exactly the same thing
that Reagan did when he was president. So much for your tax cut if you were
dumb enough to believe you were ever going to get one with a republican
president in office. They lie all the time and they lie about their lies!
VOTE next election a straight Democratic ticket in 2002!Change the Congress!

---
This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was posted with the use of anonymizing software at
http://anon.xg.nu
---


author: Depressed on days ending in 'y'

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
That's the sad part about what the last election has done to the people.
All republicans are cheaters and all democrats, as shown by this post, are
whiners.  I'm just glad that marriage is not a liability anymore.  There is
black nor white, good nor evil.  The world is gray.  Live long and BOWL
well, less stress that way.

Stuart

"Public <Anonymous_Account>" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
were
Congress!


author: John Gilmer

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
"Public <Anonymous_Account>" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Hey, sport, get you democrat friends in congress to push to truly eliminate
illegal (and most legal) immigration.  It would not be long before your "Mac
Jobs" pay real money!


author: Michael Downey

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
You know,this really *is* a worthy item on discussion on some of the
newsgroups this was cross posted to...whether you are pro or con on the
issue...but not to alt.sport.bowling

Keep in mind that the individual who made the original post on this
subject is a WELL known troll who has caused problems for two years in the
bowling newsgroup...some of his "antics" include attempts to stir up
racial animosity,forging of posts,and just plain overall sexually
perverted behavior.

Please refrain from including alt.sport.bowling on the header...and please
keep in mind just EXACTLY what you are dealing with if you engage in
debate with this individual.

MHD


author: KING OF BOWLING

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
NO TAX CUT!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'M DEMOCRATIC!!!!


author: Dar

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
Aw cheer up..... the glass is half full, not half empty. How are you ever
going to bowl well with such a negative attitude????   :-)
Dar

Depressed on days ending in 'y' <[email]> wrote in message
news:x8Ep6.6479$[email]...
is
rate
jobs
lies!


subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
NO TAX CUT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'M DEMOCRATIC


author: User

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
"John Gilmer" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3aa64b72$0$[email]...
rate
jobs
eliminate
"Mac

Hmmmm. Let's see.... why would the Dems not want to stem the flow of
illegals into the country.... let me think about this....


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
In article <986qfc$5omm$[email]>, KING OF
BOWLING <[email]> wrote:

No, I think you are an idiot. Damn HTML luser in usenet posting
bullshit.


author: Dave Korn

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
KING OF BOWLING wrote in message
<98dhse$1nm4$[email]>...
-----

  You're fucking American, and so stupid you think the whole world is too,
that's your problem.

     DaveK


author: Paul

subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
Let me educate you jackoffs who think that the rich ever paid 90% taxes on
their income! When taxes on the rich were 90% there were loop holes allowing
tax shelters that brought that percentage down to under 15%, for the
politically informed. Where do you think those big campaign contributions
came from? The same thing is going on today, but not on such a massive
scale. The Demoncrates are as much responsible as the Republicans, but at
least the Republicans were and are honest about it. Honest because
Republicans are in disagreement on the benefits to society of soak the rich
policies. The Democrates tell their brain dead supporters how they are
socking it to the rich and that these policies are best for the little guy!
I swear to god the Constitution shouldn't have let IQs under a hundred vote!
Most Demoncrats are a bunch of know it all suckers getting corn holed with
every paycheck!

"User" <[email]> wrote in message
news:w4sp6.7609$[email]...
in


subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
You're Going To Jail for the following reasons:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Coc-u-sos-sos-i-non-gog i-non E-mom-ai-lol


subject: Re: Bush Tax Increase Of 2001

text:
In article <O38r6.74$[email]>, Dave Korn
<[email]> wrote:

Ummmm, I think there are enough stupid people outside of the United
States to go around.

PUD

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


author: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

subject: Re: Filthy Lies >> Usenet Cabal FAQ (1/1)

text:
In <[email]>, on 03/08/2002
   at 03:27 PM, [email] (Turtle Head) said:

Oxymoron alert, unless you mean "member" in a vulgar sense.


author: Zodiac

text:
"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" wrote:

Probably just a regular kook as well as a net kook.


author: Alex Cain

subject: Re: Usenet Cabal FAQ (1/1)

text:
Martin Hannigan wrote:

(snip)

You left out the part about Section 32.


text:
In <[email]>, on 03/06/2002
   at 12:42 PM, Zodiac <[email]> said:

A felcher for spammers and general net kook, under the guise of
defending frea speach. Google is your friend.


text:
"- Vox Populi ï¿½" <[email]> wrote in message
news:WFyg8.345$[email]...
[SNIP]
[SNIP]
[SNIP]

  Vulis, you idiot, it's not for real.  Do you really not recognize humour
when you see it?

        DaveK


author: Jeff C

text:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:55:45 -0000, "Dave Korn"
<[email]> wrote:

Of course he doesn't. He's proven that he can barely recognise a lie,
let alone truth or humour. Give the poor lad a break Dave, and please
don't respond to him any more. It's been mercifully quiet around here
since I plonked him, and I really need no reminders.


author: Sysop

subject: eternal-september Jamie Baillie blocklist

text:
Already listed in eternal-september passive UDP on Jamie Baillie

[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]

To be added:

[email]


subject: The eternal-september Jamie Baillie Passive UDP

text:
Jamie's addresses listed in eternal-september passive UDP

[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]

Added: [email]

Once again e-s is a Jamie FreeZone.

s


author: Stop stalking me

subject: Re: eternal-september Jamie Baillie blocklist

text:
On Sep 14, 9:59 am, "Sysop" <[email]> wrote:
<SNIP>

First off you criminal stop spamming my email addresses to this
newsgroup
unmunged.  you know they are going to get harvested and spammed by
posting them on the Usenet newsgroups unmunged like that.

Yep yet more criminal activities by the NANAE criminals.

2nd off this is news.admin.net-abuse.usenet and this is
totally off topic for news.admin.net-abuse.email as per
the group charter.

http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/nana/charter/nanae/

3rd there is no UDP against me you are a liar.


author: Mike

text:
"Stop stalking me" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
It's unmunged in the headers of you post, jackass. Most harvesting is from
the headers;

"Stop stalking me" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

No Criminal Code of Canada violation has been committed
Ray Banana eternal-september is blocking your posts, as are several other
NSPs.


author: Sam

text:
Tard writes:

You first. You just posted your email address to this newsgroup, unmunged.

No, this is news.admin.net-abuse.email, tard.

I estimate a 75% chance that your latest Google posting account will be shut
down by Thursday.

Buh-bye, tard.


author: stinky

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Sam <[email]> wrote:

No one would know which one was his. I have seen the following:

[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]
[email]


author: Albert Ross

subject: Paging all Lamietard Cabal Members...

text:
...per our discussion yesterday, the supersecret 'family of Baillie' mailing
list is now open for business!


author: No Spam

subject: Re: Paging all Lamietard Cabal Members...

text:
"Albert Ross" <[email]> wrote in message
news:g7c7ph$pnq$[email]...
Is that the one at [email]  ???


author: Kimbo

subject:
Re: Ottawa FAGGOT Photographer Darrell A. Larose (darrelllarose.ca)
	Cowardly Using Nyms To Post His QUEER SHIT!

text:
On Aug 6, 2:48 pm, [email] wrote:

No!  I have him by the balls.  What a pathetic moron he is.  Guess
where I traced that IP number--right back to me.


text:
"No Spam" <[email]> wrote in message news:g7c82g$6hj$[email]...

Yep.

Open list for anonymous posting:
[email]

If you want to subscribe to updates:
[email]

Contact the moderator:
[email]


subject:
Ottawa FAGGOT Photographer Darrell A. Larose (darrelllarose.ca)
	Cowardly Using Nyms To Post His QUEER SHIT!

text:
On Aug 6, 8:21 am, "No Spam" <[email]> or Darrell A. Larose
(darrelllarose.ca)  the FAGGOT wrote: some worthless shit <snipped>

You are quite the sleuth fag boi!  Everybody who has you by that
infected dick is DICKIE!  You have no idea who is fucking over you,
but boi is it easy and we all love it!  Now, go BUTT fuck that
Beachburg QUEER Marc Bissonnette (Mr. KY JELLY BOI) who I have owned
for years and still waiting for him to be a man!

Even Jamie has you by the NUTTS, now that is pathetic!

What a life you have, you worthless piece of
shit..GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!   Without usenet, you are one lonely
FAGGOT!

http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=3ruXMQwAAADti1LWTpYPZ56exhMu-y2U


text:
"Albert Ross" <[email]> wrote in message
news:g7c882$po2$[email]...
Thanks for the update  ;)

How can you tell a dead Lamie form a dead skunk lying in the middle of the
road? There are skidmarks in front of the skunk!


author: Gene Spafford

subject: What is Usenet?

text:
Original from: [email] (Chip Salzenberg)
[Most recent change: 23 Jul 1991 by [email] (Gene Spafford)]

The first thing to understand about Usenet is that it is widely
misunderstood.  Every day on Usenet, the "blind men and the elephant"
phenomenon is evident, in spades.  In my opinion, more flame wars
arise because of a lack of understanding of the nature of Usenet than
from any other source.  And consider that such flame wars arise, of
necessity, among people who are on Usenet.  Imagine, then, how poorly
understood Usenet must be by those outside!

Any essay on the nature of Usenet cannot ignore the erroneous
impressions held by many Usenet users.  Therefore, this article will
treat falsehoods first.  Keep reading for truth.  (Beauty, alas, is
not relevant to Usenet.)

WHAT USENET IS NOT
------------------
 1. Usenet is not an organization.

    No person or group has authority over Usenet as a whole.  No one
    controls who gets a news feed, which articles are propagated
    where, who can post articles, or anything else.  There is no
    "Usenet Incorporated," nor is there a "Usenet User's Group."
    You're on your own.

    Granted, there are various activities organized by means of Usenet
    newsgroups.  The newsgroup creation process is is one such
    activity.  But it would be a mistake to equate Usenet with the
    organized activities it makes possible.  If they were to stop
    tomorrow, Usenet would go on without them.

 2. Usenet is not a democracy.

    Since there is no person or group in charge of Usenet as a whole
    -- i.e. there is no Usenet "government" -- it follows that Usenet
    cannot be a democracy, autocracy, or any other kind of "-acy."
    (But see "The Camel's Nose?" below.)

 3. Usenet is not fair.

    After all, who shall decide what's fair?  For that matter, if
    someone is behaving unfairly, who's going to stop him?  Neither
    you nor I, that's certain.

 4. Usenet is not a right.

    Some people misunderstand their local right of "freedom of speech"
    to mean that they have a legal right to use others' computers to
    say what they wish in whatever way they wish, and the owners of
    said computers have no right to stop them.

    Those people are wrong.  Freedom of speech also means freedom not
    to speak.  If I choose not to use my computer to aid your speech,
    that is my right.  Freedom of the press belongs to those who own
    one.

 5. Usenet is not a public utility.

    Some Usenet sites are publicly funded or subsidized.  Most of
    them, by plain count, are not.  There is no government monopoly
    on Usenet, and little or no government control.

 6. Usenet is not an academic network.

    It is no surprise that many Usenet sites are universities,
    research labs or other academic institutions.  After all, Usenet
    originated with a link between two universities, and the exchange
    of ideas and information is what such institutions are all about.
    But the passage of years has changed Usenet's character.  Today,
    by plain count, most Usenet sites are commercial entities.

 7. Usenet is not an advertising medium.

    Because of Usenet's roots in academia, and because Usenet depends
    so heavily on cooperation (sometimes among competitors), custom
    dictates that advertising be kept to a minimum.  It is tolerated
    if it is infrequent, informative, and low-hype.

    The "biz" hierarchy and the "comp.newprod" newsgroup are
    exceptions that prove this rule.  They provide homes (ghettos?)
    for marketdroids who know how to touch-type or use an OCR reader.

 8. Usenet is not the Internet.

    The Internet is a wide-ranging network, parts of which are
    subsidized by various governments.  It carries many kinds of
    traffic, of which Usenet is only one.  And the Internet is only
    one of the various networks carrying Usenet traffic.

 9. Usenet is not a UUCP network.

    UUCP is a protocol (actually a "protocol suite," but that's a
    technical quibble) for sending data over point-to-point
    connections, typically using dialup modems.  Sites use UUCP to
    carry many kinds of traffic, of which Usenet is only one.  And
    UUCP is only one of the various transports carrying Usenet
    traffic.

10. Usenet is not a United States network.

    It is true that Usenet originated in the United States, and the
    fastest growth in Usenet sites has been there.  Nowadays, however,
    Usenet extends worldwide.

    The heaviest concentrations of Usenet sites outside the U.S. seem
    to be in Canada, Europe, Australia and Japan.

    Keep Usenet's worldwide nature in mind when you post articles.
    Even those who can read your language may have a culture wildly
    different from yours.  When your words are read, they might not
    mean what you think they mean.

11. Usenet is not a UNIX network.

    Don't assume that everyone is using "rn" on a UNIX machine.  Among
    the systems used to read and post to Usenet are Vaxen running VMS,
    IBM mainframes, Amigas, and MS-DOS PCs.

12. Usenet is not an ASCII network.

    Those IBM mainframes used to participate in Usenet use (shudder)
    EBCDIC.  Other sites use special character sets for non-English
    postings.  Ignore non-ASCII sites if you like, but they exist.

13. Usenet is not software.

    There are dozens of software packages used at various sites to
    transport and read Usenet articles.  So no one program or package
    can be called "the Usenet software."

    Software designed to support Usenet traffic can be (and is) used
    for other kinds of communication, usually without risk of mixing
    the two.  Such private communication networks are typically kept
    distinct from Usenet by the invention of newsgroup names different
    from the universally-recognized ones.

Well, enough negativity.

WHAT USENET IS
--------------
Usenet is the set of people who exchange articles tagged with one or
more universally-recognized labels, called "newsgroups" (or "groups"
for short).

(Note that the term "newsgroup" is correct, while "area," "base,"
"board," "bboard," "conference," "round table," "SIG," etc.  are
incorrect.  If you want to be understood, be accurate.)

DIVERSITY
---------
If the above definition of Usenet sounds vague, that's because it is.

It is almost impossible to generalize over all Usenet sites in any
non-trivial way.  Usenet encompasses government agencies, large
universities, high schools, businesses of all sizes, home computers of
all descriptions, etc, etc.

CONTROL
-------
Every administrator controls his own site.  No one has any real
control over any site but his own.

The administrator gets her power from the owner of the system she
administers.  As long as her job performance pleases the owner, she
can do whatever she pleases, up to and including cutting off Usenet
entirely.  Them's the breaks.

Sites are not entirely without influence on their neighbors, however.
There is a vague notion of "upstream" and "downstream" related to the
direction of high-volume news flow.  To the extent that "upstream"
sites decide what traffic they will carry for their "downstream"
neighbors, those "upstream" sites have some influence on their
neighbors' participation in Usenet.  But such influence is usually
easy to circumvent; and heavy-handed manipulation typically results in
a backlash of resentment.

PERIODIC POSTINGS
-----------------
To help hold Usenet together, various articles (including this one)
are periodically posted in newsgroups in the "news" hierarchy.  These
articles are provided as a public service by various volunteers.
They are few but valuable.  Learn them well.

Among the periodic postings are lists of active newsgroups, both
"standard" (for lack of a better term) and "alternative."  These
lists, maintained by Gene Spafford, reflect his personal view of
Usenet, and as such are not "official" in any sense of the word.
However, if you're looking for a description of subjects discussed on
Usenet, or if you're starting up a new Usenet site, Gene's lists are
an eminently reasonable place to start.

PROPAGATION
-----------
In the old days, when UUCP over long-distance dialup lines was the
dominant means of article transmission, a few well-connected sites had
real influence in determining which newsgroups would be carried where.
Those sites called themselves "the backbone."

But things have changed.  Nowadays, even the smallest Internet site
has connectivity the likes of which the backbone admin of yesteryear
could only dream.  In addition, in the U.S., the advent of cheaper
long-distance calls and high-speed modems has made long-distance
Usenet feeds thinkable for smaller companies.  There is only one
pre-eminent UUCP transport site today in the U.S., namely UUNET.  But
UUNET isn't a player in the propagation wars, because it never refuses
any traffic -- it gets paid by the minute, after all; and besides, to
refuse based on content would jeopardize its legal status as an
enhanced service provider.

All of the above applies to the U.S.  In Europe, different cost
structures favored the creation of strictly controlled hierarchical
organizations with central registries.  This is all very unlike the
traditional mode of U.S. sites (pick a name, get the software, get a
feed, you're on).  Europe's "benign monopolies," long uncontested, now
face competition from looser organizations patterned after the U.S.
model.

NEWSGROUP CREATION
------------------
The document that describes the current procedure for creating a new
newsgroup is entitled "How To Create A New Newsgroup."  Its common
name, however, is "the guidelines."

If you follow the guidelines, it is probable that your group will be
created and will be widely propagated.

HOWEVER: Because of the nature of Usenet, there is no way for any user
to enforce the results of a newsgroup vote (or any other decision, for
that matter).  Therefore, for your new newsgroup to be propagated
widely, you must not only follow the letter of the guidelines; you
must also follow its spirit.  And you must not allow even a whiff of
shady dealings or dirty tricks to mar the vote.  In other words, don't
tick off system administrators; they will get their revenge.

So, you may ask: How is a new user supposed to know anything about the
"spirit" of the guidelines?  Obviously, he can't.  This fact leads
inexorably to the following recommendation:

If you have a good newsgroup idea, then read the "news.groups"
newsgroup for a while (six months, at least) to find out how things
work.  If you're too impatient to wait six months, then you really
need to learn; read "news.groups" for a year instead.  If you just
can't wait, find a Usenet old hand to run the vote for you.

Readers may think this advice unnecessarily strict.  Ignore it at your
peril.  It is embarrassing to speak before learning.  It is foolish to
jump into a society you don't understand with your mouth open.  And it
is futile to try to force your will on people who can tune you out
with the press of a key.

THE CAMEL'S NOSE?
-----------------
As was observed above in "What Usenet Is Not," Usenet as a whole is
not a democracy.  However, there is exactly one feature of Usenet that
has a form of democracy: newsgroup creation.

A new newsgroup is unlikely to be widely propagated unless its sponsor
follows the newsgroup creation guidelines; and the current guidelines
require a new newsgroup to pass an open vote.

There are those who consider the newsgroup creation process to be a
remarkably powerful form of democracy, since without any coercion, its
decisions are almost always carried out.  In their view, the
democratic aspect of newsgroup creation is the precursor to an
organized and democratic Usenet Of The Future.

On the other hand, some consider the democratic aspect of the
newsgroup creation process a sham and a fraud, since there is no power
of enforcement behind its decisions, and since there appears little
likelyhood that any such power of enforcement will ever be given it.
For them, the appearance of democracy is only a tool used to keep
proponents of flawed newsgroup proposals from complaining about their
losses.

So, is Usenet on its way to full democracy?  Or will property rights
and mistrust of central authority win the day?  Beats me.

IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY...
---------------------
Property rights being what they are, there is no higher authority on
Usenet than the people who own the machines on which Usenet traffic is
carried.  If the owner of the machine you use says, "We will not carry
alt.sex on this machine," and you are not happy with that order, you
have no Usenet recourse.  What can we outsiders do, after all?

That doesn't mean you are without options.  Depending on the nature of
your site, you may have some internal political recourse.  Or you
might find external pressure helpful.  Or, with a minimal investment,
you can get a feed of your own from somewhere else. Computers capable
of taking Usenet feeds are down in the $500 range now, and
UNIX-capable boxes are going for under $2000, and there are at least
two UNIX lookalikes in the $100 price range.

No matter what, though, appealing to "Usenet" won't help.  Even if
those who read such an appeal are sympathetic to your cause, they will
almost certainly have even less influence at your site than you do.

By the same token, if you don't like what some user at another site is
doing, only the administrator and owner of that site have any
authority to do anything about it.  Persuade them that the user in
question is a problem for them, and they might do something -- if they
feel like it, that is.

If the user in question is the administrator or owner of the site from
which she posts, forget it; you can't win.  If you can, arrange for
your newsreading software to ignore articles from her; and chalk one
up to experience.

WORDS TO LIVE BY #1:
 USENET AS SOCIETY
--------------------
  Those who have never tried electronic communication may not be aware
  of what a "social skill" really is.  One social skill that must be
  learned, is that other people have points of view that are not only
  different, but *threatening*, to your own.  In turn, your opinions may
  be threatening to others.  There is nothing wrong with this.  Your
  beliefs need not be hidden behind a facade, as happens with
  face-to-face conversation.  Not everybody in the world is a bosom
  buddy, but you can still have a meaningful conversation with them.
  The person who cannot do this lacks in social skills.

                                     -- Nick Szabo

WORDS TO LIVE BY #2:
 USENET AS ANARCHY
--------------------
  Anarchy means having to put up with things that really piss you off.

                                     -- Unknown


author: Edward Vielmetti

subject: Re: What is Usenet?

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Gene Spafford) writes:

Imagine, indeed, how poorly understood Usenet must be by those who have
the utter audacity to post a What is Usenet posting every month!  In
my opinion, any posting like this that doesn't get completely rewritten
every few months quickly becomes a quaint historical document, which at
best yields a prescriptivist grammar for how the net "should be" and at
worst tries to shape how the Usenet "really is".

The first thing to understand about Usenet is that it is big.  Really big.
Netnews (and netnews-like things) have percolated into many more places
than are even known about by people who track such things.  There is no
grand unified list of everything that's out there, no way to know beforehand
who is going to read what you post, and no history books to guide you that
would let you know even a small piece of any of the in jokes that pop
up in most newsgroups.  Distrust any grand sweeping statements about
"Usenet", because you can always find a counterexample.  (Distrust this
message, too :-).

Any essay on the nature of Usenet that doesn't change every day to reflect
its ever changing nature is erroneous.  Usenet is not a matter of "truth",
"beauty", "falsehood", "right", or "wrong", except insofar as it is a
conduit for people to talk about these and many other things.

Usenet is organized.  There are a number of people who contribute to its
continued organization -- people who post lists of things, people who
collect "frequently asked questions" postings, people who give out or sell
newsfeeds.  This organization is accompanied by a certain amount of
disorganization -- news software that doesn't always work just right,
discussions that wander from place to place, parts of the net that resist
easy classification.  Order and disorder are part of the same whole.

In the short run, the person or group who runs the system that you read
news from and the sites which that system exchanges news with control
who gets a feed, which articles are propogated to what places and how
quickly, and who can post articles.  In the long run, there are a number
of alternatives for Usenet access, including companies which can sell you
feeds for a fee, and user groups which provide feeds for their members;
while you are on your own right now as you type this in, over the long
haul there are many choices you have on how to deal with the net.

Usenet has some very "democratic" sorts of traditions.  Traffic is ultimately
generated by readers, and people who read news ultimately control what
will and will not be discussed on the net.  While the details of any
individual person's news reading system may limit or constrain what is
easy or convenient for them to do right now, in the long haul the decisions
on what is or is not happening rests with the people.

On the other hand, there have been (and always will be) people who have been
on the net longer than you or I have been, and who have a strong sense of
tradition and the way things are normally done.  There are certain things
which are simply "not done".  Any sort of decision that involves counting
the number of people yes or no on a particular vote has to cope with certain
entrenched interests who aren't about to change their behavior just on a whim.

Usenet is fair, cocktail party, town meeting, notes of a secret cabal,
chatter in the hallway at a conference, friday night fish fry, post-coital
gossip, conversations overhead on an airplane, and a bunch of other things.

Usenet is a right, a left, a jab, and a sharp uppercut to the jaw.  The
postman hits!  You have new mail.

Yes, don't expect to get a feed of Hill Street Blues reruns out of your modem,
and the technology necessary to carry natural gas in the unused NSFnet T3
backbone circuits is rather experimental and prone to failure.  Indeed, there
have been occasions where extremely hot discussion has generated spark and
set off explosions in certain circuits in the more arid desert regions of
Texas.

If you smell gas, call your local utility company immediately. Call "Miss Dig"
before you excavate.

Usenet is a network with many parts to it.  Some parts are academic, some
parts aren't.  Usenet is clearly not a commercial network like Sprintnet or
Tymenet, and it it's an academic network like BITNET.  But parts of BITNET
are parts of Usenet, though some of the traffic on usenet violates the
BITNET acceptable use guidelines, even though the people who are actually
on BITNET sites reading these groups don't necessarily mind that they
are violating the guidelines.

Whew.  Usenet is a lot of networks, and none of them.  You name another
network, and it's not Usenet.

A man walks into a crowded theater and shouts, "ANYBODY WANT TO BUY A CAR?"
The crowd stands up and shouts back, "WRONG THEATER!"

Ever since the first dinette set for sale in New Jersey was advertised
around the world, people have been using Usenet for personal and for
corporate gain.  That's the nature of living in a marketplace.  Every
single posting is an advertisement for something -- a potential employee
advertising their technical knowlege on a public newsgroup in the hope
of being hired; a company showing off its technology by consistently posting
high quality information and answering user questions; and people posting
overtly political messages to soc.culture groups hoping to sway popular
opinion to their cause.

There are some rules to "advertising on Usenet" which need to be followed
scrupulously to avoid any hint that you are actually doing advertising, while
at the same time effectively marketing yourself or your services.

- Drop the marketing hype.  Usenet doesn't have glossy brochures.
- Speak nice of your competitors.  If your product is better than
  theirs, don't say theirs is "brain damaged", "broken", or "worthless".
  After all someone else might have the same opinion of your product.
- Dance around the issue.  Post relevant information (like price, availability
  and features) but make sure you don't send everything out.  If someone
  wants the hard sell let them request it from you by e-mail.
- Don't be an idiot.  If you sell toasters for a living, don't spout off
  in net.breadcrumbs about an international conspiracy to poison pigeons
  orchestrated by the secret Usenet Cabal; toaster-buyers will get word
  of your reputation for idiocy and avoid your toasters even if they are
  the best in the market.
- Disclaimers are worthless.  If you post from foobar.com, and put a note
  on the bottom "not the opinions of foobar inc.,", you may satisfy the
  lawyers but your corporate reputation still will be affected.  To maintain
  a separate net.identity, post from a different site.

It would be very difficult to sustain the level of traffic that's flowing
on Usenet today if it weren't for people sending news feeds over dedicated
circuits with TCP/IP on the Internet.  That's not to say that if a sudden
disease wiped out all IBM RTs and RS6000s that form the NSFnet backbone that
some people wouldn't be inconvenienced or cut off from the net entirely.
There's a certain symbiosis between netnews and Internet connections;
the cost of maintaining a newsfeed with NNTP is so much less than doing the
same thing with dialup UUCP that sites which depend enough on the information
flowing through news are some of the most eager to get on the Internet.

The Usenet is not the Internet.  Certain governments have laws which
prevent other countries from getting onto the Internet, but that doesn't
stop netnews from flowing in and out.  Chances are pretty good that a
site which has a usenet feed you can send mail to from the Internet, but
even that's not guaranteed in some odd cases (news feeds sent on mag tapes,
for instance).

UUCP carried the first netnews traffic, and a considerable number of sites
get their newsfeed using UUCP.  But it's also fed using NNTP, mag tapes,
and printed out on paper to be tacked up on bulletin boards and pasted on
refrigerators.

A recent analysis of the top 1000 Usenet sites showed about 58% US sites,
15% unknown, 8% Germany, 6% Canada, 2-3% each the UK, Japan, and Australia,
and the rest mostly scattered around Europe.

The state of California is the center of the net, with about 14% of the
mapped top sites there.  You can read netnews on all seven continents,
including Antarctica.

If you're looking for a somewhat less US-centered view of the world, try
reading regional newsgroups from various different states or groups from
various far-away places (which depending on where you are at could be
Japanese, German, Canadian, or Australian).  There are a lot of people
out there who are different from you.

Well...ok, if you don't have a UNIX machine, you can read news.  In fact,
there are substantial sets of newsgroups (bit.*) which are transported
and gatewayed primarily through IBM VM systems, and a set of newsgroups
(vmsnet.*) which has major traffic through DEC VMS systems.  Reasonable
news relay software runs on Macs (uAccess), Amiga (a C news port), MS-DOS
(Waffle), and no doubt quite a few more.  I'm typing on a DOS machine
right now.

There is a certain culture about the net that has grown up on Unix machines,
which occasioally runs into fierce clashes with teh culture that has grown
up on IBM machines (LISTSERV), Commodore 64's (BIFF IS A K00L D00D),
and MS-DOS Fidonet systems.  If you are not running on a Unix machine or
if you don't have one handy there are things about the net which are going
to be puzzling or maddening, much as if you are reading a BITNET list and
you don't have a CMS system handy.

Tell me about it.  You should assume that your posting is going to be
mutilated, translated back and forth (imperfectly) between various
character sets, truncated as it's being punched to punch cards, randomly
CAPITALIZED by various MUTANT MAILERS out there, and otherwise mangled
beyond description before it gets to your intended recipient.  Some
newsgroups which post sources or binaries have come up with ways to foil
most devious software out there, but there's still consistent trouble.s

There are reasonably standard ways to type Japanese, Russian, Swedish,
Finnish, Icelandic, and Vietnamese in a more or less ASCII-like code.
You will kind of sort of be able to read some of it.

Usenet software has gotten much better over time to cope with the ever
increasing aggregate flow of netnews and (in some cases) the extreme
volume that newsgroups generate.  If you were reading news now with the
same news software that was running 10 years ago, you'd never be able
to keep up.  Your system would choke and die and spend all of its time
either processing incoming news or expiring old news.  Without software
and constant improvements to same, Usenet would not be here.

There is no "standard" Usenet software, but there are standards for what
Usenet articles look like, and what sites are expected to do with them.
It's possible to write a fairly simple minded news system directly from
the standards documents and be reasonably sure that it will work with
other systems, though thorough testing is necessary if it's going to be
used in the real world.

Usenet is in part about people.  There are people who are "on the net",
who read rec.humor.funny every so often, who know the same jokes you do,
who tell you stories about funny or stupid things they've seen.  Usenet
is the set of people who know what Usenet is.

Usenet is a bunch of bits, lots of bits, millions of bits each day full
of nonsense, argument, reasonable technical discussion, scholarly analysis,
and naughty pictures.

Usenet (or netnews) is about newsgroups (or groups).  Not bboards, not
LISTSERV, not mailing lists, they're groups.  If someone calls them
something else they're not looking at things from a Usenet perspective.
That's not to say that they're "incorrect" -- who is to say what is
the right way of viewing the world? -- just that it's not the Net Way.
In particular, if they read Usenet news all mixed in with their important
every day mail (like reminders of who to go to lunch with Thursday) they're
not seeing netnews the way most people see netnews.  Some newsgroups
are also (or "really") Fidonet echoes (alt.bbs.allsysop), BITNET LISTSERV
groups (bit.listserv.pacs-l), or even both at once! (misc.handicap).
So be prepared for some violent culture clashes if someone refers
to you favorite net.hangout as a "board".

Newsgroups have names.  These names are both very arbitrary and very
meaningful.  People will fight for months or years about what to name
a newsgroup.  If a newsgroup doesn't have a name (even a dumb one
like misc.misc) it's not a newsgroup.  In particular newsgroup names
have dots in them, and people abbreviate them by taking the first letters
of the names (so alt.folklore.urban is afu, and soc.culture.china is scc).

There is nothing vague about Usenet.  (Vague, vague, it's filling up
thousands of dollars worth of disk drives and you want to call it vague?
Sheesh!)  It may be hard to pin down what is and isn't part of usenet
at the fringes, but netnews has tended to grow amoeba-like to encompass
more or less anything in its path, so you can be pretty sure that if
it isn't Usenet now it will be once it's been in contact with Usenet
for long enough.

There are a lot of systems that are part of Usenet.  Chances are that
you don't have any clue where all your articles will end up going or what
news reading software will be used to look at them.  Any message of
any appreciable size or with any substantial personal opinion in it
is probably in violation of some network use policy or local ordinance
in some state or municipality.

Some people are control freaks.  They want to present their opinion of
how things are, who runs what, what is OK and not OK to do, which things
are "good" and which are "bad".  You will run across them every so often.
They serve a useful purpose; there's a lot of chaos inherent in a largely
self-governing system, and people with a strong sense of purpose and order
can make things a lot easier.  Just don't believe everything they say.
In particular, don't believe them when they say "don't believe everything
they say", because if they post the same answers month after month some
other people are bound to believe them.

If you run a news system you can be a petty tyrant.  You can decide what
groups to carry, who to kick off your system, how to expire old news so
that you keep 60 days worth of misc.petunias but expire rec.pets.fish
almost immediately.  In the long run you will probably be happiest if
you make these decisions relatively even-handedly since that's the posture
least likely to get people to notice that you actually do have control.

Your right to exercise control over netnews usually ends at your neighbor's
spool directory.  Pleading, cajoling, appealing to good nature, or paying
your news feed will generally yield a


author: Dan Veditz

subject: Re: What is Usenet?

text:
[email] (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
  [long point-by-point response to Chip's article (as posted by Spaf),
   with Ed's part ending:]
  [followed by the rest of the original "What is Usenet?" article
   without interruption.]

Would love to see the rest of it, Ed.

-Dan Veditz
[email]


author: TANAKA Tomoyuki

subject: FTP-site for book reviews?

text:
i think this RAMR is really great.
(it's an FTP-site for rec.arts.movies.reviews at ftp.uu.net)
recently i read a review of "farewell my concubine" written by a
communist organization (called MIM) which was very interesting.

i have a question.
is there a similar FTP site for book reviews?
	(if there is, i want to see the reviews of the book
	entitled "the beauty myth" by naomi wolf.)

i'd be grateful if you could answer me by e-mail.

i'm leaving on a vacation tomorrow (see below).
so if your reply comes after tomorrow,
it may take several days before i can thank you.

tomoyuki

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:    Mon, 16 May 94 15:16:51 GMT
From:    [email] (TANAKA Tomoyuki)
Subject: media bias against Asians (and Blacks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.usa,soc.co
     ***uples.intercultural,soc.culture.african.american

i was thinking ...

i believe that what we see in the media influences our attitude
and behavior greatly (as i argued in my 800-line USENET article
on interracial dating).

for one thing, we can discuss the negative stereotypes in the
media:  in TV shows (Kung Fu,...) and films (Joy Luck Club,
Rising Sun, Gung Ho).

another point is that what we see in movies, TV, and magazine
advertisements shape our aesthetics of what we consider
fashionable, attractive, or desirable; that when we are
presented with overwhelmingly white (Caucasian) images, the
sheer quantity and predominance of it is significant.

just to check, i looked at 3 magazine-type things:

--- ELLE (Jan 1993)  some black females and one BM appear.
	all others WFs and WMs.
--- COSMOPOLITAN (Feb 1993)  out of the hundreds of photos and
	drawings, there are 4 or so BFs.  all others WFs and WMs.
--- J. Crew catalog (Spring 1994)  there is 1 small photo of a BM.
	all others WFs and WMs.

as i suspected, there were no photos or drawings of Asians at
all.  (actually i expected a few Asian females.)  i would guess
that there may be occasional Asian females in this type of
magazines, but Asians males are almost nonexistent.

this brings up a question:  in terms of numbers, what would be
a "fair" representation?   to reflect the current racial makeup
of the USA, 12% black and 3% Asian?    (affirmative action?)

perhaps someone can do a class project or something on this.
(please let me know if you do.)

maybe it is the case that such studies have been done already
and some are well-known (perhaps for Blacks).
only relevant thing i've seen is the following paper discussing
changes in Asian stereotypes in the USA.

	Stanly Sue and Harry H.L. Kitano.
	"Stereotypes as a measure of success".
	Journal of Social Issues.  Vol 29, No 2 (1973).

(In a few days I'm leaving on a two-month vacation (in California,
Japan, and China).  I'll be checking e-mail once every other week
or so, but I won't be reading USENET news.
If you post an article in response, please send me a copy too.)

;;; (Mr.) TANAKA Tomoyuki  (Tanaka is my family name.)
;;;
;;; E-mail address: <[email]>
;;;             or: <[email]>


author: Jonathan Grobe

subject: Re: FTP-site for book reviews?

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (TANAKA Tomoyuki) writes:

You may find the following of interest:

About the Internet Book Information Center (IBIC)
(under construction; most recently revised April 28, 1994)

Frederick Zimmerman
2626 Braeburn Circle
Ann Arbor, MI 48108-2604
313/741-4657
E-mail (preferred): [email]

1.  IBIC's purpose is to serve as an Internet clearinghouse for useful
and interesting information about books.

2.  IBIC operates a WorldWideWeb (WWW) server (URL
http://sunsite.unc.edu/ibic/IBIC-homepage.html).  The IBIC server can be
accessed using free, public-domain software called NCSA Mosaic.  The best
way to get a copy of Mosaic is to ask your local system administrator or
a commercial Internet access provider.  Alternately, you can telnet into
sunsite.unc.edu and login as lynx, which enables you to use a text-only
WWW browser.

3.  Server space for IBIC is provided courtesy of SunSITE, a joint
project of Sun Microsystems and the University of North Carolina-Chapel
Hill.

4.  The IBIC WWW server is currently averaging approximately 2300
users/month.

5.  Resources available via IBIC include:

% IBIC Reviews of Recently Released and Forthcoming Books

% The Commonplace Book (n.): an edited collection of striking passages
noted in a single place for future reference.  The idea of this
experimental Commonplace Book home page is to test the concept of an
Internet Commonplace Book built by and available to a wide variety of
users.

and links to Internet resources such as:

% alt.books.reviews archive

% Library of Congress Information Publishers' Catalogs and Electronic
Bookstores

% Library of Congress Services to Libraries and Publishers

% Library of Congress (LC) Machine-Assisted Realization of the Virtual
Electronic Library (MARVEL)

% Biblio Mailing List for Rare Books and Book Collectors

% WEB online book reviews of Children's Books by Wendy E. Betts

% Science Fiction Resource Guide

% Project Gutenberg

% CMU Books Online page

% The Online Archive of Electronic Texts (University of Virginia)

% Georgetown Catalogue of Projects in Electronic Text

% U. Maryland Reading Room/Fiction

% CERN Overview of Literature and Arts resources

6.  Book reviews posted to the IBIC Gopher server are also posted to
selected Internet newsgroups.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Grobe  [email]


author: Robert J. Schechter

subject: Re: FTP-site for book reviews?

text:
How does IBIC get books for its WWW server?  Is this a volunteer project
in which IBIC acts as moderator/curator, or is it commercial?  Can anyone
propose home pages or have them posted in the server?  What kind of a
group is this?  I emailed IBIC but would appreciate hearing from anyone
with experience or information relating to the WWW and its display of
books, catalogues, etc.


author: Cameron Laird

subject: Re: FTP-site for book reviews?

text:
In article <2rphav$[email]>,
Jonathan Grobe <[email]> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
			.
			.
			.
Note, though, that this archive at csn.org has been snafu-ed
for several months, and, as of this writing, is entirely off-
line.  Steve Brock is working to resuscitate it, but I don't
think he's yet been able to generate a particular schedule.
For the foreseeable future, then, there is no known public
archive of alt.books.reviews (more's the pity!).


author: David Topping, Designated Member

subject: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
Dear Jamie

At 1730GMT this afteroon, 24 August 2010, I received a telephone call
from our legal partnership broadband providers Abuse Department (Be
Unlimited).

Their reference is 5513093, concerning a complaint logged by you.

In the aforementioned complaint, you have accused either myself, another
Memeber or the partnership itself (Topping Brereton LLP) of spamming you
directly via the medium of email.

Be Unlimited treat any such accusation under what is known as Napoleonic
Law (prove your own innocence) and treat such accusations with the
upmost seriousness. Such an accusation can lead to immediate suspension
of service, even when no wrong has been established.

As any sane person in business will understand, the loss of any
broadband or other connectivity carries immediate and serious financial,
PR and operational consequences for that business, not to mention
frustration and annoyance.

Luckily, your past behaviour (demonstrated ad nauseum) has led to other
people who are both innocent victims of your malice and collateral
damage setting up informative websites, one being
http://www.jamiebaillie.net.

I have spent at least an hour on the telephone explaining your
personality and how you essentially like to 'attack and destroy' anyone
who is not you! They have also had the following email sent to them:

<QUOTE>
The complainant, Jamie Baillie, has been stalking many people over the
last ten years, using false complaints and very serious accusations
ranging from spam to more serious activity.

He has caused so much distress that a website about his illegal
activities has been set up at http://www.jamiebaillie.net.

I hope that this email brings this issue to a satisfactory conclusion
for yourselves.

Many thanks
</QUOTE>

Your complaint is being reviewed and they will be back in touch with me
later on this evening. I will update this group on what that outcome is.
Hopefully, it will be positive.

Jamie, I have had no abuse from you for at least two years. Any contact
from you continues to be both unwelcome, unwanted and trespass under
Common Law, as you have previously been told, in writing, that I wish no
contact with you. That request is my lawful right.

Please be assured that your behaviour on this occasion will illicit a
response. You can be sure that I will take this as far as I can,
legally.

Please let me have, by public response, or private email, either your
full postal address or that of your solicitors, for documents which will
follow.

Additionally, please be advised that future work undertaken concerning
you will be charged and invoiced to you personally at ï¿½275GBP per hour.

If anyone wants my assistance with action they are taking, or
documentation from our ISP as evidence, please get in touch.

Many thanks
-----
[email]


author: Wm James

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:13:00 +0000 (UTC), "David Topping, Designated
Member" <[email]> wrote:

If you need me to sign a statement and send documentation from his
spam club activities and bogus complaints after I posted it and larted
SPamtard, I will be glad to. Just left me know.

William R. James


author: Hawkeye-X

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:13:00 +0000 (UTC), "David Topping, Designated
Member" <[email]> wrote:

A bit low, you can go L500 and Lamie will still not come up with
anything, and a lien can be placed on his TardMobile and his future
wages (if he has any)

Hawkeye-X


author: The Usenet

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Aug 24, 4:59 pm, "Susan" <[email]> wrote:

Walmart that is where you work Susan you are one of the "people of
walmart"
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

I bet Susan has been one of the "feature creatures" more than once.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Aug 24, 3:38 pm, Dunkelschadenfreude <[email]> wrote:

Again more lies and libel Gary Burnore isn't trying to serve me with
anything Gary Burnore has NO case what so ever and just wants
information on me to further harass and threaten me.

Nor has there been any process server even trying to serve me.

Again another kook posting a bunch of libel and lies about me.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Aug 24, 5:02 pm, "David Topping | Topping Brereton LLP"
<[email]> wrote:

Well that was the complaint I made to bethere.co.uk  so either your
ISP has
made a mistake then or I need to know the IP they are talking about.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Aug 24, 2:15 pm, "Susan" <[email]> wrote:

Susan knows all about soliciting that is her night job she gets
solicited all the time.


author: Betty Lou Hooker

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 1:13 PM, David Topping, Designated Member wrote:

You're gonna get spanked!!! Ha! Even your ewes are gonna laugh at ewe!


author: Brielle

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <Xns9DDEB94E9F542toppingbreretonllp@94.75.214.90>,
 "David Topping, Designated Member" <[email]>
 wrote:

Due to his recent actions, including threats against others, i've listed
Jamie Baillie under the Shoot On Sight category in the AHBL.  If people
want to include me in on whats going on (forwards, BCC, etc), I'll put
it in my archive here.

There will also be a new page under the kooks section of the AHBL
website talking more about why the block exists.


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
Update

Message received from Be Unlimited - reprinted WITH TYPOS:

<QUOTE>
Dear David,
thank you for your update.

As we quoted in our previous communication we are obliged to informed our
customers about that sort of activity( if any occurs). However, Be
Broadband won't take any actions against you as the user in this particular
case. We now can take this case as resolved if you satisfied with the final
outcome.

If you have any other questions to put please email us.

Best regards.
Be Team Support.
</QUOTE>

The final outcome being (unofficially) the reading of
http://www.jamiebaillie.net.

If anyone would like copies of said emails for their archives, please get
in touch.

In the meantime: Jamie, please let us have your postal address, or your
solicitors contact details.

Regards


author: LittleBoPeep

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 1:13 PM, David Topping, Designated Member wrote:

God, I hope this is for real.


author: El Blowfly

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:13:00 +0000, David Topping, Designated Member
wrote:

Which illustrates *why* such sites need to remain up to date and on line.
Another Baillie FAIL.


author: Susan

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:13:00 +0000 (UTC), "David Topping, Designated
Member" <[email]> wrote:

David,

Please get in touch with others who have been victimized by Lamie -
send me an email to gmail and I will make sure you have their contact
info.

Thanks


author: David Topping

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
Wm James <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Hi, William

Is the email address in your headers (excluding the obvious parts)
operational?

Regards


author: Etaoin Shrdlu >

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
It happens that The Usenet formulated :

Well, Spamtard™, you are the one who were caught at Wall-Marde:

http://imgur.com/NL2Ow.jpg


author: Steve

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <438fff7c-822f-4108-99bd-
[email]>, [email] says...
<snipolametard>

Out getting another bus ticket out of town, no doubt.

You can run but you can't hide.

s


author: D Baten

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 7:30 PM, The Usenet wrote:

So you write, yet refuse to give a true address for service

Three demerits for avoidance...


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <0729ab00-f2b3-4709-a43c-69c02877e2e5
@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>, [email] says...
<snipowhinr>

Liar.

That's why you ran out of town screaming like a little girl with your
pantyhose full of shit as soon as you heard Burnore was headed to
Canada.

s


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
The Usenet presented the following explanation :

You know, Spamtard™, it’s really a wonder that you haven’t got a
Louisville Slugger slugged accross your pathetic excuse for an
encephalic bud yet.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:40:04 -0700 (PDT), The Usenet
<[email]> wrote:

Oh, that rapier wit is too much for me.

Now don't get all excited because rapier has nothing to do with
rape...I mean sheep-shagging. That ewe asked for it, didn't she, she
didn't have any pants on, right? We understand ;-)


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:04:59 -0600, Brielle
<[email]> wrote:

Cool - keep us posted.

Hope all is well!

Hawkeye-X


author: Marc Bissonnette

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
Brielle <[email]> leapt off a ten storey
building. This is what they screamed on the way down: news:brielleR-E-M-O-
[email]:

I've updated
http://www.canadianisp.ca/jamie_baillie.html with this (2 listings at
AHBL), as well as an "AHBL Addendum" showing that darkshado.ca is listed in
the Shoot on Sight (SoS) list. Also updated the text outside the lists to
more accurately reflect the number of listings in UCEProtect and APEWS for
Jamie Baillie.

As a side note, I notice that AHBL has a Jamie Baillie link in their
carto0neys section, but there is no content, other than his name as a
header.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Aug 24, 1:04 pm, Brielle <[email]> wrote:

You are an idiot there is no grounds for any kind of listing on any
block list. So fuck off
and remove the false listing against me.


author: Dunkelschadenfreude

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
David Topping, Designated Member wrote:

I would be very surprised to find that he has any legal counsel or that he
would give you his real address.  Gary Burnore has been trying to have him
served for months, but he has managed to elude the process servers and
Burnore himself.  He would justify his evasions in his belief that he is
the law and that the law only applies to others and never to himself.

I wish you luck.


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:07:06 +0000 (UTC), "David Topping, Designated
Member" <[email]> wrote:

David, don't be calling lawyers "solicitors" because he probably will
think you mean soliciting whores for acts of prostitution.


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
LittleBoPeep <[email]> wrote in news:6JqdnQfJ_
[email]:

Unfortunately for me, as well as people who depend on my availability, it
is.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:24:43 +0000 (UTC), El Blowfly
<[email]> wrote:

Agreed

Best wishes to David.

Is El Tardo Lardo dredging up old enemy lists and shotgunning
complaints?

re: "Jamie, I have had no abuse from you for at least two years"


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 1:40 PM, Susan wrote:

Maybe it's time to bring the lamietardbbs back.


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:23:24 +0000 (UTC), David Topping
<[email]> wrote:

At the moment, no.  But I'll send you an email with one that is.

William R. James


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 8:07 PM, Susan wrote:

The above reads like Mr The Usenet's personal fantasy...


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <Xns9DDEB41F81C9Eusenetcanadianisp@216.196.97.131>,
 Marc Bissonnette <[email]> wrote:

Thanks :)

That is because I haven't had a chance to write it yet.  It's planned
when I get some time this evening and tomorrow.  I may just link it to
the page at canadianisp.ca and call it done. :)


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 7:36 PM, The Usenet wrote:

And your use of foul language accomplishes what?

Why? Because of your reasonable and even manner in asking?


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <cdb6eacd-758b-4bd3-b33d-6d3fe872dd13
@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, [email] says...
<snipospam>

Fucked up again, didn't you, shit for brains.

Another process server headed your way.

s


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
The Usenet scribouilla :

Spamtard™, everyday that goes by sees you added to many people’s lists.

And there is fuck-all you can do about it.

Perhaps it would be wise for you to disappear from the Intarwebs for a
very, very, very long while…


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 1:25 PM, David Topping, Designated Member wrote:

Just keep in mind the Lamie is his secret, real-world identity. He's
really known as Dr. Ewefinger. Beware his secret weapon:
http://i.imgur.com/luVI6.gif or you may regret it!!!


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
LittleBoPeep <[email]> leapt off a ten storey
building. This is what they screamed on the way down:
news:[email]:

There is already an active listserv directly related to Baillie and his
actions. Get in touch with any Cabal (tinc) member for access.


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
Wm James <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Received and replied!

Ta


author: stinky

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <i53tc4$2ap$[email]>,
 D Baten <[email]> wrote:

Makes him look KeWel and impresses the ladies......of the evening.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <i51nv7$v82$[email]>,
 Anony Mouse <[email]> wrote:

I got this shortly ago.  I'm sure he's going to assert his kookyright...
I guess masturbating with his tears only goes so far.

=======================================
Form: Request Removal Of An AHBL Listing
Submitted by Anonymous
Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 16:38
87.231.107.31
Your Name: Jamie
Your E-Mail Address: [email]
Subject: Remove
Message:
Remove this false listing against me immediately there is no grounds to
list me here and I demand that this listing be immediately removed.
There is no abuse from me what so ever. Remove this listing now.
Lookup Form Query: darkshado.ca
Lookup Form Listing Reason: Jamie Baillie, abuse, threats, etc
I have read the AHBL TOS/AUP and understand it: No
=======================================


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <i51lf3$nc9$[email]>,
 Etaoin Shrdlu <Keep the "nospam" to email me
 <[email]>> wrote:

Ewe got a point there.  :)


author: David Topping, Designated Member

subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
Marc Bissonnette <[email]> wrote in
news:Xns9DDE944568FA6usenetcanadianisp@216.196.97.131:

<...>

I have. Susan kindly put me in touch with other persons.

Thanks for your help earlier, as well.

A second call to a certain police force is imminent.


subject: Re: [LEGAL]: Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On 8/24/2010 2:34 PM, Marc Bissonnette wrote:

Write me please. The address here is not completely accurate, but you'll
spot what needs to be done, I'm sure.


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <[email]>,
 stinky <[email]> wrote:

Does he pay them in wool sweaters?


author: Mike

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
"stinky" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Bet with all that lanolin, his has really smooth skin...

Mike


author: Hawkeye-X

subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:04:12 -0600, Brielle
<[email]> wrote:

Nuff said.

Lamie doesn't understand TOS/AUP's.

Hawkeye-X


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article
<[email]
g>,
 Brielle <[email]> wrote:

Whee, and the fun begins!  And like I called it, he asserted his
kookyright!

=======================================
Go to hell there will be removal there is NO reason for this listing
nor is there any abuse by me.

Remove this false listing immediately.

 I will not cease anything till such time as you remove this false
listing about me

You won't ban me from accessing your site nor can you any ban
you put against me will be quickly evaded.

There is NO spam coming from me or any abuse coming from
my domain nor do you have any cause to list my domain.

There has been NO abuse by me or my domain and there has not been
any false complaints what so ever.

You also have no permission to post or publish any information
here and I expect everything to be kept private.

http://www.ahbl.org/lktool

darkshado.ca is 212.95.44.98

This host is listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org
IP address in ip4r format: 98.44.95.212.dnsbl.ahbl.org

Reason:
Jamie Baillie, threats, false abuse reports, harassment

This host is listed in rhsbl.ahbl.org
Domain name address in rhsbl format: darkshado.ca.rhsbl.ahbl.org
Reason:
Jamie Baillie, abuse, threats, etc

This listing is totally false and I demand that it be immediately
removed.

08/24/10 19:08:25 dns ahbl.org
Mail for ahbl.org is handled by this.is.a.fake.smtp.server.sosdg.org
mail.ca.sosdg.org mail.sosdg.org
Canonical name: ahbl.org
Addresses:
  205.233.35.5

To the upstream of ahbl.org remove all connectivity to them immediately
if they are not willing to remove this false listing about me and stop
harassing
and stalking me.

Jamie
=======================================


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article
<[email]
g>,
 Brielle <[email]> wrote:

BAAAAAD!


subject: Re: : Paging Jamie Baillie

text:
In article <[email]>,
 stinky <[email]> wrote:

Ewe you know it :)


author: Peter Moylan

subject: Anti-Spam ID [was Re: Yes, that's 1 MILLION hits !]

text:
I've asked this question on other newsgroups, and nobody seems to
know, but maybe this is finally the group where someone knows
the answer.

Yvon infrared:

[snip the usual rubbish]

A lot of newsgroup spammers seem to append this "Anti-Spam ID" to
their postings.  What is it?  An opt-out code that I can use to
killfile him?  An ID for use in abuse reports?  As far as I can
see, its only use is as a declaration saying "I am a spammer",
but of course we already know this before getting to the last
line of the posting.

A separate question: why do the net-abuse newsgroups seem to get
more spam than the other newsgroups I read?


author: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

subject: Re: Anti-Spam ID [was Re: Yes, that's 1 MILLION hits !]

text:
In <c6sa2l$1ni$[email]>, on 04/30/2004
   at 01:27 AM, [email] (Peter Moylan) said:

Sabotage. But lately I'm seeing a high percentage of spam in dc.jobs
and va.jobs.


text:
In <34dlc.850$[email]>, on 05/02/2004
   at 09:44 PM, "Brendan Townsend" <[email]> said:

It was always profiled as socially unacceptable, since the ARPAnet
days. Ask DEC (well, the vestiges at Hewlett PackPaq).


author: Brendan Townsend

text:
MAF stands for "My Affilliate Finder", an old outdated unstable pathetic
interface cobbled together evidently years ago and peddled by FreeAdGuru.
Apparently it was something that someone called Stephan Ducharme used to
spam a load of people in the old days when spam was unheard of and wasn't
profiled as "socially unacceptable". That's where his claims of responses
from a single Email come from.

The idea with the MAFxxx  is that the sender can be reported to the spam
peddlers http://www.myaffiliatefinder.com/ by using the ID in the MAF report
(LOL)...good luck!!!

Also, that Porshe must be a rusting wreck by now. You must have seen the
ad's spouting on about his lovely car and the stupid images with Stephan
Ducharme standing proudly alongside. He must be a doddery old silver-hair by
now.

Sadly however, there are plenty of fools that are easily duped in parting
with their hard-earned cash to bolster his pension. I'm going to have to
start an article about this perpetual campaign, tied inseparably with
www.moneyhome.com and www.freeadguru.com.

Brendan Townsend
www.spamforce.com

"Peter Moylan" <[email]> wrote in message
news:c6sa2l$1ni$[email]...


author: Liberalminded

subject: I think Skippy and Robbie are the same person now plus he is in love with Gary and I can prove it    was Re: Abuse from Alttopia

text:
"Skippy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Damn!!  Can you just get on with your fucking life.
Does everything have to be Gary this or that?
This is what I see in almost every thread you are in and sometimes post
after post

Poster:  How are you today?
Skippy:  Burnore is a freak.

Poster: I have problems with my modem
Skippy:  Burnore had a modem and raped Mongolian children with it

Poster:  Did you hear about Bush and the nukes?
Skippy:  Bush's names starts with a B and so does Burnore who rapes small
rodents and takes children's candy while running nekkid through a Vet Day
Parade and I hear he smells bad to.

Poster:  Who is Skippy in love with?
Skippy:  Gary Burnore -----


author: I R A Darth Aggie

subject: Re: I think Skippy and Robbie are the same person now plus he is in love with Gary and I can prove it    was Re: Abuse from Alttopia

text:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:04:20 -0500,
Liberalminded <[email]>, in
<kk7k8.74705$[email]> wrote:
+>
+> "Skippy" <[email]> wrote in message
+> news:[email]...
+> > pz <[email]> wrote:
+> >
+> > >Maybe somebody has some examples of usenet anonymity being used to noble
+> > >purpose...?
+> >
+> > Gary Burnore was reported to the authorities using an anonymous
+> > remailer for molesting a girl under the age of consent.
+> >
+>
+> Damn!!  Can you just get on with your fucking life.
+> Does everything have to be Gary this or that?
+> This is what I see in almost every thread you are in and sometimes post
+> after post
+>
+> Poster:  How are you today?
+> Skippy:  Burnore is a freak.
+>
+> Poster: I have problems with my modem
+> Skippy:  Burnore had a modem and raped Mongolian children with it
+>
+> Poster:  Did you hear about Bush and the nukes?
+> Skippy:  Bush's names starts with a B and so does Burnore who rapes small
+> rodents and takes children's candy while running nekkid through a Vet Day
+> Parade and I hear he smells bad to.
+>
+> Poster:  Who is Skippy in love with?
+> Skippy:  Gary Burnore -----

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...

James


text:
"I R A Darth Aggie" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
noble
small
Day

at least the d00d could morph and attack somebody else from time to time.
If I ever get like that I am going to cut my phone lines and drive my car
off a bridge.