author: Lewis S. Eisen

subject: Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies, v6.01

text:
Subject: Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies
Date: 2002 June 21
Last revision: 2002 June 21
Posted to: news.groups.questions,news.admin.hierarchies,news.answers
Version: 6.01

The following is a list of newsgroup hierarchies, to help readers of the
news locate a hierarchy of interest.

To help administrators avoid naming conflicts, both open and closed
hierarchies are now listed. The symbol <> following a description denotes
a closed hierarchy.

Additions, changes and corrections should be sent to
<mailto:[email]>. Many thanks to those who have made contributions
to date.

_____________________________________________________________
OTHER VERSIONS

NEWS:  The Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies is posted to
<news:news.answers>, <news:news.admin.hierarchies> and
<news:news.groups.questions> monthly.

E-MAIL:  To receive a copy of this list by e-mail, send a blank message to
<mailto:[email]>.

To receive a copy of each new version of this list by e-mail, send a blank
message to <mailto:[email]>.

To cancel your request to recieve each new version of this list by e-mail,
send a blank message to <mailto:[email]>.

FTP:  The Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies is no longer available by
anonymous ftp.

WEB:  The official HTML version of the Master List of Newsgroup
Hierarchies is available on the World Wide Web at
<http://www.magma.ca/~leisen/mlnh/>.

Copies are also kept at:
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/hierarchy-list>
<http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/usenet/hierarchy-list.html>

Simon Lyall <[email]> posts the "Usenet Hierarchies: Config
Files FAQ" to news.lists.misc and news.admin.hierarchies each month. It
contains a list of people responsible for issuing control messages for
various hierarchies. You'll find it on the web at
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/hierarchies-config>.

Historical notes:
Version 1.0 of the Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies was released on
September 25, 1995 with a list of 275 hierarchies.
Version 2.5 was released on December 18, 1995 with 344 entries
Version 4.12 was released on December 30, 1996 with 449 entries
Version 5.11 was released on January 18, 1998 with 519 entries
Version 5.27 was released on January 26, 1999 with 571 entries
Version 5.43 was released on February 20, 2000 with 600 entries
Version 6.01 was released on June 21, 2002, with 625 entries

_____________________________________________________________

Newsgroup Hierarchies:

a2000.        Amsterdam 2000, Netherlands (ISP) <>
ab.           Alberta, Canada
abingdon.     Abingdon, Oxon, UK
abq.          Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
acadia.       Acadia University, Nova Scotia, Canada
acs.          University of Calgary computer science Alberta, Canada
acs.          Ohio State University, USA <>
adass.        Astronomical Data & Archiving Systems & Software
ahn.          Athens-Clarke County, Georgia, USA
ak.           Alaska, USA
akakon.       Aka Kon, Anime convention
akr.          Akron, Ohio, USA
alabama.      Alabama, USA
alc.          newsgroups discussing alcohol
algebra.      discussions about algebra
algonet.      Algonet, Sverige (ISP)
alt.          Usenet alternative newsgroups
aol.          America Online, ISP
apana.        Australian Public Access Network Association <>
apc.          Association for Progressive Communications
apk.          APK Net, Ohio, USA (ISP)
ar.           grupos de Argentina
arc.          NASA Ames Research Center, California, USA <>
argh.         ARGH network, Deutschland
arkane.       Arkane Systems, UK
aston.        Aston University, Birmingham, England
asu.          Arizone State University, USA
at.           Oesterreich (Austria)
athena.       M.I.T., Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA
atl.          Atlanta, Georgia, USA
aus.          Australian and Australasian newsgroups
austin.       Austin, Texas, USA
auth.         Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece
autodesk.     Autodesk Inc. corporate newsgroups
av.           Antelope Valley, California, USA
az.           Arizona, USA

ba.           San Francisco bay area, California, USA
backbone.     Prima e.V., Dortmund, Deutschland (ISP) <>
balcab.       Basel, Schweiz, ISP <>
balt.         Baltimore, Maryland, USA
baynet.       Bayerische Bï¿½rgernetze, Deutschland
bburg.        Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
bc.           British Columbia, Canada
bcs.          Boston Computer Society, Massachusetts, USA
be.           Belgique/Belgï¿½e/Belgien (Belgium)
bend.         Bend, Oregon, USA
bermuda.      Bermuda
best.         Best Internet Communications, California, USA <>
bingo.        Bï¿½rgernetz Ingolstadt, ISP, Deutschland
bionet.       Biology Network
birmingham.   Birmingham, England
bison.        Manitoba, Canada
bit.          originating from BITNET (IBM mainframe)
biz.          Usenet business newsgroups
blgtn.        Bloomington, Indiana, USA
bln.          Berlin, Germany
bnr.          Bell-Northern Research
bocaraton.    Boca Raton, FL
bochum.       Bochum, Deutschland
boston.       Boston, Massachusetts, USA
boulder.      Boulder, Colorado, USA
br.           Brasil
brasil.       Brasil
bremen.       Bremen, Deutschland
bremnet.      Bremen und Umgebung, Deutschland
brocku.       Brock University, Ontario, Canada
byu.          Brigham Young University, Utah, USA

ca.           California, USA
cabot.        Cabot College, St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
cais.         Capital Area, USA (ISP) <>
calgary.      Calgary, Alberta, Canada
calstate.     California State University, USA
caltech.      California Institute of Technology, USA
cam.          Cambridge area, England
can.          Canada
canb.         Canberra, Australia
capdist.      Albany (Capital District), New York, USA
carleton.     Carleton University, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
cd-online.    CD-Online, Nederland (ISP) <>
central.      Internet Company of New Zealand (ISP) <>
centralor.    Central Oregon, USA
cern.         Cern, Genï¿½ve, Suisse
ch.           Schweiz/Suisse/Svizzera (Switzerland)
chi.          Chicago, Illinois, USA
chile.        Chile
chinese.      China and Chinese language newsgroups
christnet.    Christian Network
cid.          cid, Berlin, Deutschland (ISP)
cis.          Cyberhalk Internet Services, USA
cisnet.       Univ. of Malta, Computer Information Systems Dept. <>
cityscp.      Cityscape Internet Services, UK (ISP)
cityweb.      cityweb Network GmbH, Deutschland <>
cl.           CL-Netz (German language newsgroups) <>
claranet.     Claranet, UK (ISP) <>
clari.        Clarinet News Service (commercial)
cle.          Cleveland, Ohio, USA
clinet.       Clinet, Finland (ISP) <>
cmc.          Chambers Multimedia Connection, Eugene, Oregon, USA (ISP) <>
cmh.          Columbus, Ohio, USA
cmu.          Carnegie Mellon University, USA <>
cna.          Chinese language newsgroups
co.           Colorado, USA
comp.         Usenet computer newsgroups
compuserve.   CompuServe (ISP)
computer42.   computer42, Deutschland (ISP)
concordia.    Concordia University, Quebec, Canada
conn.         Connecticut, USA
cor.          Corvallis, Oregon, USA
cornell.      Cornell University <>
courts.       United States court decisions
cov.          City of Coventry, West Midlands, UK
covuni.       Coventry University, West Midlands, UK
cs.           University of British Columbia computer science, Canada
csn.          Colorado SuperNet, USA
cth.          Chalmers Univ. of Technology, Gï¿½teborg, Sverige
cu.           University of Colorado, USA <>
cville.       Charlottesville, Virginia and region, USA
cym.          Wales and Welsh newsgroups
cz.           Czech Republic newsgroups

dal.          Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
dawa.         Verein zur Foerderung der Datenkommunikation, Warburg, Deutschland
dc.           Washington, D.C., USA
ddn.          Defense Data Network, USA
dds.          Dutch Freenet language groups
de.           International German language newsgroups
delaware.     Delaware, USA
demon.        Newsgroups from the Demon network, UK
denet.        Alternative, deutschsprachige Hierarchie <>
denver.       Denver, Colorado, USA
det.          Detroit, Michigan, USA
discuta.      discuta.com international newsgroups
dfw.          Dallas-Ft. Worth, Texas, USA
dk.           Danmark (Denmark)
dkp.          Deutsche Kommunistische Partei, Deutschland <>
dod.          Department of Defense, USA
dortmund.     Dortmund, Deutschland
dsb-netz.     Datenschutz-Netz fï¿½r Bï¿½rgerInnen, Deutschland <>
dsm.          Des Moines, Iowa, USA
dti.          Dream Train Internet Inc., Japan (ISP) <>
duke.         Duke University
dut.          Delft Institute of Technology, Nederland

easynet.      Easynet, UK (ISP)
ed.           Edinburgh, Scotland
edm.          Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
eduni.        Edinburgh University, Edinburgh, Scotland
ee.           Eesti (Estonia)
efn.          Eugene Free Computer Network, Eugene, Oregon, USA
england.      England and English newsgroups
es.           grupos de Espaï¿½a
esp.          grupos en espaï¿½ol
eug.          Eugene/Springfield, Oregon, USA
eunet.        European Networks
europa.       themas europee in discussiones multilingual
example.      bogus hierarchy reserved for standards documents
execpc.       ExecPC Internet, New Berlin, Wisconsin, USA (ISP)
eye.          eye WEEKLY Newspaper, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

ffm.          Frankfurt (Main), Deutschland
ffo.          Frankfurt (Oder), Deutschland
fido.         originating from Fidonet
fido7.        Russian-language Fidonet
finet.        Finland and Finnish language alternative newsgroups
fj.           Japan and Japanese language newsgroups
fl.           Florida, USA
flora.        FLORA Community Web, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
fm.           Linux software announcements and discussion <>
fnal.         Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, Illinois, USA <>
fnet.         originating from Fnet (France)
fnord.        Fnord Discordian Network
forum.        Treffpunkt fuer Ex-Compuserve-Kunden in Deutschland <>
fr.           international French language newsgroups
francom.      groupes de discussion en francais
franken.      Franken, Deutschland
fras.         Freie Amiga Software (German Amiga binaries)
free.         entirely unregulated newsgroups
freenet.      Groups originating from freenets
ftech.        Frontier Internet Services, UK (ISP) <>
furr.         Furrynet, USA <>

ga.           Georgia, USA
gay.          Gay and lesbian newsgroups
gbg.          Gï¿½teborg, Sverige
geometry.     discussions about geometry
ger.          GerNet, Deutschland (ISP)
git.          Georgia Institute of Technology, USA
gnu.          GNU operating system
gov.          Government information newsgroups
govonca.      Government of Ontario, Canada
greenend.     The Green End Organization, Cambridge, UK <>
grk.          Greece and Greek language newsgroups
gruene.       Partei Die Grï¿½nen/Bï¿½ndnis 90, Deutschland
gu.           University of Gï¿½teborg, Sverige
gwu.          George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA

hacktic.      Dutch/English hackers' newsgroups, Nederland
halcyon.      Halcyon Corporate newsgroups
hamburg.      Hamburg, Deutschland
hamilton.     Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
hamster.      Users of Hamster proxy server
han.          Hangul language newsgroups (Korean)
hanau.        Hanau, Deutschland
hannet.       Hannover, Deutschland
hannover.     Hannover, Deutschland
harvard.      Harvard University, Massachusetts, USA
hawaii-online.  Hawaii-Online (ISP)
hawaii.       Hawaii, USA
hebron.       Hebron, Israel
helsinki.     Helsinki, Finland
hepnet.       High Energy Physics Network
hfx.          Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
hiv.          HIV-related issues
hk.           Hong Kong
hna.          Hunter Network Association, Australia (ISP)
hookup.       Hookup, Canada (ISP)
houston.      Houston, Texas, USA
hr.           Croatian newsgroups
hrnet.        Human Rights network
hsv.          Huntsville, Alabama, USA
hum.          Humber College, Etobicoke, Ontario, Canada
humanities.   Usenet discussions about Humanities
humanityquest.discussions on human values
hun.          Magyarorszag (Hungarian newsgroups)
hy.           University of Helsinki, Finland

i2000.        gerarchia di newsgroup in italiano
ia.           Iowa, USA
iaf.          Internet Access Foundation, Nederland
ibm.          IBM-based newsgroups <>
ibmnet.       IBM Global Network <>
ic.           ICONSULT, Deutschland (ISP)
iconz.        Internet Company of New Zealand (ISP) <>
idirect.      I-Direct (ISP)
ie.           Ireland
ihug.         The Internet Group, New Zealand (ISP) <>
iij.          IIJ (ISP)
iijnet.       IIJ (ISP)
in.           Indiana, USA
india.        India and Indian newsgroups
infko.        Universitaet Koblenz, Deutschland <>
info.         Internet technical information
inforamp.     Inforamp, Canada (ISP)
ingolstadt.   Ingolstadt, Deutschland <>
intel.        Intel Corporation <>
interlog.     Interlog, Canada (ISP)
is.           Iceland and Icelandic newsgroups
israel.       Israel
it.           Italia
italia.       reti civiche e gruppi locali italiani
ithaca.       Ithaca, New York, USA
iu.           Indiana University, Indiana, USA
iupui.        Indiana University-Purdue Univ. at Indianapolis, USA
ivm.          IVM GmbH, Deutschland (ISP) <>

japan.        Japan and Japanese language newsgroups
jaring.       Jaring network, Malaysia (ISP)
jerusalem.    Jerusalem / Y'rushalayim / al-Quds, Israel
jhu.          Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore MD, USA
jogu.         Johannes-Gutenberg-Universitaet Mainz, Deutschland <>
jusos.        JungsozialistInnen, Deutschland <>

k12.          international educational network
ka.           Karlsruhe, Deutschland <>
kanto.        Japanese language newsgroups
kassel.       Region Kassel, Deutschland
kc.           Kansas City, Kansas/Missouri, USA
kennesaw.     Kennesaw State University, Georgia, USA
kiel.         Kiel, Deutschland
kingston.     Kingston, Ontario, Canada
knf.          Kommunikationsnetz Franken e.V., Deutschland
knox.         Knoxville and surrounding area, Tennessee, USA
koblenz.      Koblenz, Deutschland.
ks.           Kansas, USA
ksu.          Kansas State University, USA
kth.          Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sverige
kun.          Katholieke Universiteit Nijmegen, Nederland
kw.           Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
ky.           Kentucky, USA

la.           Los Angeles, California, USA
laurentian.   Laurentian University, Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
leeds.        Leeds, England
li.           Long Island, New York, USA
life.         LifeNet Christian Network
linux.        Linux operating system
lmu.          Ludwigs-Maximilians-Universitï¿½t, Mï¿½nchen, Deutschland <>
lon.          London, England
lou.          Louisiana, USA
lrz.          Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Mï¿½nchen, Deutschland <>
lspace.       discussions about Terry Pratchett
lu.           Luxembourg newsgroups
luebeck.      Luebeck, Deutschland
lv.           Latvian newsgroups

malta.        Malta and Maltese newsgroups
man.          Manitoba, Canada
manawatu.     Manawatu district, New Zealand <>
maus.         originating from MausNet (Deutschland)
mc.           Mississippi College, Clinton, Mississippi USA <>
mcgill.       McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada
mcmaster.     McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
md.           Maryland, USA
me.           Maine, USA
medlux.       Russian language medical newsgroups
melb.         Melbourne, Australia
melbpc.       Melbourne PC User Group, Australia
memphis.      Memphis, Tennessee, USA
mensa.        discussions among members of Mensa
metocean.     Metocean, Japan (ISP)
metu.         Middle East Technical Univ., Ankara, Turkiye
mex.          Mexican newsgroups
mi.           Michigan, USA
miami.        Miami, Florida, USA
microsoft.    Microsoft newsgroups
midlands.     English midlands, UK
milw.         Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
misc.         Usenet miscellaneous newsgroups
mistral.      Brighton, England
mit.          Massachusetts Institute of Technology
mn.           Minnesota, USA
mo.           Missouri, USA
mod.          moderated newsgroups
ms.           Mississippi, USA
mtl.          Montreal, Quebec, Canada
mu.           Marquette University, Milwaukee, Wisconson, USA
muc.          Mï¿½nchen, Deutschland
mucev.        Muc.de e.V., ISP, Mï¿½nchen, Deutschland <>
muenster.     Muenster, Deutschland
mun.          Memorial University, Newfoundland, Canada
mv.           MV Communications, Inc. (ISP)
mx.           Mexico

nagasaki-u.   University of Nagasaki, Japan
nanaimo.      Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
nas.          NASA Numerical Aerospace Simulation Facility, USA <>
nas-root.     NetNews Administration System Developers <>
nasa.         National Aeronautics and Space Administration, USA <>
nashville.    Nashville, Tennessee, USA
nb.           New Brunswick, Canada
nbg.          Nuernberg, Deutschland
nc.           North Carolina, USA
ncar.         Nat. Centre for Atmosph. Research, Colorado, USA
ncf.          National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
ncle.         Newcastle (and Hunter Valley), Australia
ncsc.         North Carolina SuperComputing, USA
nctu.         National Chiao-Ting University, Taiwan
nd.           North Dakota, USA
ne.           New England area, USA
nebr.         Nebraska, USA
net.          Usenet II (usenet2.org) <>
netscape.     Netscape, Mountain View, California, USA
netwarriors.  Netwarriors Org, Deutschland
netz.         originated by Netz e.V., Deutschland
nevada.       Nevada, USA
neworleans.   New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
news.         Usenet news
newsguy.      Newsguy News Service
nf.           Newfoundland, Canada
nh.           New Hampshire, USA
ni.           Northern Ireland
niagara.      Niagara Peninsula, Canada/USA
nj.           New Jersey, USA
nl.           Nederland
nlnet.        Nlnet (ISP)
nm.           New Mexico, USA
no.           Norge (Norway)
nord.         Norddeutschland
nordunet.     Nordic National Research Network
norge.        Norway regional groups <>
north.        Weser-Ems Region, Deutschland
northwest.    northwest region of England, UK
nrw.          Nordrhein-Westfalen, Deutschland
ns.           Nova Scotia, Canada
ntua.         National Technical University of Athens, Greece
nu.           Newcastle University, Australia
nv.           Nevada, USA
nwt.          Northwest Territories, Canada
nwu.          Northwestern University, Illinois, USA
ny.           New York State, USA
nyc.          New York City, New York, USA
nyu.          New York University, USA
nz.           New Zealand

oau.          Orlando, Florida, USA
oc.           Orange County, California, USA
oecher.       Aachen, Deutschland
oerebro.      ï¿½rebro, Nï¿½rke, Sverige
ogi.          Oregon Graduate Institute, USA
oh.           Ohio, USA
ok.           Oklahoma, USA
okinawa.      Okinawan newsgroups
oldenburg.    Oldenburg, Deutschland
olnet.        Oldenburg und Umgebung, Deutschland
oma.          Omaha, Nebraska USA
on.           Offenes Netz Luebeck, Deutschland
online.       Telenor Online, Oslo, Norge (ISP) <>
ont.          Ontario, Canada
opera.        Opera web browser, multilingual
or.           Oregon, USA
osu.          Ohio State University, USA
ott.          Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
owl.          Ostwestfalen-Lippe, Deutschland
own.          One World Net
ox.           Oxford University, UK <>

pa.           Pennsylvania, USA
pb.           Der Fahrgastverband PRO BAHN, Deutschland <>
pdaxs.        Portland Metronet, Oregon, USA
pds.          Partei des Demokratischen Sozialismus, Deutschland <>
pdx.          Portland, Oregon, USA
pei.          Prince Edward Island, Canada
peru.         Groupos del Peru
pgh.          Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
phil-priv.    The Philippines and Filipino newsgroups
phl.          Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
phoenix.      Phoenix, Arizona, USA
phx.          Phoenix, Arizona, USA
pi.           Planet Internet, Nederland (ISP) <>
pinnacle.     Pinnacle, UK (ISP)
pipex.        Pipex (ISP)
pitt.         University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
pl.           Polska (Polish language newsgroups)
planet.       PlaNet FreeNZ co-operative, New Zealand
pnw.          Pacific North-West (USA/Canada)
prima.        Prima e.V., Dortmund, Deutschland (ISP) <>
princeton.    Princeton area, New Jersey, USA
prodigy.      Prodigy (ISP)
ps.           People of Scandinavia (ISP)
psi.          PSINet (ISP)
psu.          Pennsylvania State University, USA
pt.           Portugal and Portuguese newsgroups
pu.           Princeton University, New Jersey, USA <>
purdue.       Purdue University

qc.           Quebec, Canada
queens.       Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

rabbit.       Rabbit Network (ISP)
rain.         RAINnet (ISP)
realguns.     discussions about firearms
realtynet.    Real estate network
rec.          Usenet recreational newsgroups
redarmy.      Red Army of Canada
redhat.       Red Hat Software, North Carolina, USA <>
region.       Mittlehessen, Deutschland
relcom.       Relcom, Commonwealth of Ind. States (ISP) (Cyrillic)
rg.           Rio Grande Valley, New Mexico/Texas, USA
rhein.        Rhein area (Cologne and Bonn), Germany
ri.           Rhode Island, USA
rmii.         Rocky Mountain Internet (ISP)
roanoke.      Roanoke, Virginia, USA
ru.           Rutgers University, New Jersey, USA
ruhr.         Ruhrgebiet, Deutschland
rv.           Rogue Valley, Oregon, USA
rwth.         Rheinisch-Westfï¿½lische TH, Deutschland
rye.          Ryerson University, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

saar.         Saarbruecken, Deutschland
sac.          Sacramento, California, USA
sackheads.    Sysadmins with too much time on their hands
sacramento.   Sacramento, California, USA
sae.          World Council of Hellenes Abroad, Greek language
salford.      University of Salford, UK <>
sanet.        SAnet (South Africa)
sat.          San Antonio, Texas, USA
sba.          Santa Barbara, California, USA
sbay.         South Bay region, San Francisco, California, USA
schl.         newsgroup echo of KidLink mailing-lists
schule.       German language school newsgroups
sci.          Usenet science newsgroups
scot.         Scotland and Scottish newsgroups
scruz.        Santa Cruz, California, USA
sd.           South Dakota, USA
sdnet.        San Diego, California, USA
sdsu.         San Diego State University, California, USA <>
se.           Sverige (Sweden)
sea.          Seattle, Washington, USA
seattle.      Seattle, Washington, USA
sfnet.        Suomi-Finland, Finland & Finnish language newsgroups
sfu.          Simon Fraser Univ., British Columbia, Canada
sg.           Singapore
sgi.          Silicon Graphics, Inc.
shamash.      Jewish newsgroups
si.           Slovenian newsgroups
simcoe.       Simcoe County, Ontario, Canada
sj.           Saint John's, Newfoundland, Canada
sk.           Saskatchewan, Canada
sk.           Slovakian newsgroups
slac.         Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, USA
slo.          San Luis Obispo, California, USA
slonet.       SLONET (ISP)
snafu.        Snafu, Deutschland (ISP)
soc.          Usenet social issues newsgroups
socs.         McGill Univ. Sch. of Comp. Sci., Quebec, Canada
sol.          sol.net Network Services, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
solent.       Solent, U.K. (ISP)
solinet.      Gewerkschaftliche Themen (German trade unions)
sonoma.       Sonoma County, California, USA
south-wales.  Southern Wales and Welsh newsgroups, UK
spk.          Spokane, Washington, USA
spokane.      Spokane, Washington, USA
srg.          Swiss Broadcasting Corporation
srjc.         Santa Rosa Junior College, California, USA
staroffice.   StarOffice software, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
stgt.         Stuttgart, Deutschland
stl.          St. Louis, Missouri, USA
stmarys.      St. Mary's Univ., Nova Scotia, Canada
su.           Stanford University
sudbury.      Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
sunet.        Swedish University Network, Sverige
surfnet.      Dutch university newsgroups, Nederland
swipnet.      Swipnet Tele/2, Sverige (ISP) <>
swnet.        Sverige (Sweden)
syd.          Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

t-online.     T-Online, Deutschland (ISP) <>
tacoma.       Tacoma, Washington, USA
talk.         Usenet talk newsgroups
tamu.         Texas A & M University, USA
taos.         Taos, New Mexico, USA
tba.          Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
tct.          discussions about Therianthropy
tdw.          Tidewater, Virginia, USA
tele.         Tele Danmark Internet (ISP) <>
telia.        Telia, Sverige (ISP) <>
terranova.    Terra Nova Visuals, Finland <>
thur.         Thuringia, Deutschland
tin.          TIN, Italia (ISP)
tip.          The Internet Plaza, Nederland (ISP) <>
tipnet.       Telia, Sverige (ISP)
tn.           Tennessee, USA
tnn.          The Network News (Japanese)
tor.          Toronto, Ontario, Canada
torfree.      Toronto Freenet, Ontario, Canada
toulouse.     Toulouse, France
tp.           Toppoint, Kiel, Deutschland
tr.           Turkiye & Turkish language groups
trentu.       Trent University, Ontario, Canada
triangle.     Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, USA
trumpet.      discussions of Trumpet programs
tulsa.        Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
tum.          Technische Universitï¿½t Mï¿½nchen, Deutschland <>
tvontario.    TVOntario, Ontario, Canada
tw.           Taiwan
tx.           Texas, USA

u3b.          discussions on AT&T 3B systems
ualberta.     University of Alberta, Canada
uark.         University of Arkansas, USA
ubc.          University of British Columbia, Canada
uc.           University of California, USA
ucalgary.     University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada
ucam.         University of Cambridge, UK <>
ucb.          University of California at Berkeley, USA
ucd.          University of California, Davis, USA
ucsb.         Univ. of California at Santa Barbara, USA
ucsc.         University of California at Santa Cruz, USA
udes.         Universitï¿½ de Sherbrooke, Quï¿½bec, Canada
uf.           University of Florida, USA
ufra.         Unterfranken, Deutschland
uiowa.        University of Iowa, USA
uiuc.         University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, USA
uk.           United Kingdom
ukc.          University of Kent at Canterbury, UK
uklinux.      UK Linux discussion groups
ukr.          Ukraine and Ukranian language newsgroups
uky.          University of Kentucky, USA
ulaval.       Universitï¿½ Laval, Quï¿½bec, Canada
um.           University of Maryland, USA
umiami.       University of Miami, Florida, USA
umich.        University of Michigan, USA
umn.          University of Minnesota, USA
umoncton.     University of Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
umontreal.    Universitï¿½ de Montrï¿½al, Quï¿½bec, Canada
unb.          University of New Brunswick, Canada
unc.          University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, USA
unisa.        University of South Australia, Adelaide, Australia.
unl.          University of Nebraska at Lincoln, USA
uno.          University of Nebraska at Omaha, USA
uo.           University of Oregon, USA
uoc.          University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
upenn.        University of Pennsylvania, USA
uqam.         Universitï¿½ de Quï¿½bec ï¿½ Montrï¿½al, Canada
us.           United States
usask.        University of Saskatchewan, Canada
usf.          University of South Florida, USA
usu.          Utah State University, USA
usyd.         University of Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
ut.           University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada
utah.         Utah, USA
utcs.         University of Texas, Computer Science, USA
utk.          University of Tennessee, Knoxville, USA
utexas.       University of Texas, USA
uunet.        originating from UUNet (UNIX)
uva.          University of Virgina, USA
uvic.         Univ.of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
uw.           University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
uwa.          University of Washington, USA
uwarwick.     University of Warwick, UK
uwash.        University of Washington, USA
uwindsor.     University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada
uwisc.        University of Wisconsin, Madison, USA
uwm.          University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, USA
uwo.          Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada

va.           Virginia, USA
van.          Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
vatech.       Virginia Polytechnic Inst. and State University, USA
vechta.       Universitaet Vechta, Niedersachsen, Deutschland
vegas.        Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
vic.          Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
vifa.         Victoria Freenet Association, B.C., Canada
vikingis.     viking is, Canada (ISP)
vmsnet.       originating from Digital VAX network
vpro.         VPRO TV-station newsgroups, Nederland
vt.           Vermont, USA
vu.           Vanderbilt University

wa.           Western Australia
wales.        Wales
wanadoo.      Wanadoo, France (ISP)
wash.         Washington, USA
weihenstephan Technische Universitï¿½t Mï¿½nchen, Deutschland <>
west-virginia. West Virginia, USA
westf.        Westfalen, Deutschland
wi.           Wisconsin, USA
wimsey.       Wimsey, British Columia, Canada (ISP)
witten.       Witten, Deutschland
wlu.          Wilfred Laurier University, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
wny.          Western New York, USA
worldnet.     AT&T Worldnet <>
worldonline.  World Online, Nederland (ISP) <>
wpi.          Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Massachusetts, USA
wpg.          Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
wxs.          World Access/Planet Internet, Nederland (ISP)
wyo.          Wyomimg, USA

xs4all.       Xs4all, Nederland (ISP)

yakima.       Yakima, Washington, USA
yale.         Yale University, Connecticut, USA
yk.           Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Canada
yfn.          Youngstown, Ohio Free-Net, USA
yolo.         Yolo County, California, USA
york.         York University, Ontario, Canada
ysu.          Youngstown State University, Ohio, USA

z-netz.       originating from Z-Netz (German newsgroups)
za.           South Africa and Afrikaans newsgroups

625 entries

===========================================================

OBSOLETE HIERARCHIES

The following hierarchies are now obsolete:

air.          Stanford University internal
alive.        international alternative newsgroups
bhm.          Birmingham, Alabama, USA
bologna.      Bologna, Italia
ct.           c't (German computer magazine)
fub.          Freie Universitï¿½t Berlin, Deutschland
gay-net.      German gay and lesbian groups
hl.           Hansestadt Luebeck, Deutschland
ieee.         IEEE standards
il.           Illinois, USA (soon to be illinois.*)
il.           Israel (now israel.*)
metropolis.   Metropolis, Nederland (ISP)
nbn.          North Bay Network, California, USA
nil.          Private Rechner in Berlin, Deutschland
nl-alt.       Usenet alternative nieuwsgroepen, Nederland
pubnet.       Public Access Systems network
stardivision. Sun Microsystems software suite (now staroffice.*)
t-netz.       German language newsgroups (now Z-Netz.*)
tlg.          The Little Garden, California, USA
tub.          Technische Universitï¿½t Berlin, Deutschland
uberlin.      Gemeinsame Themen der Berliner Universitï¿½ten
vol.          Telecom Italia Video On Line (ISP)
wgtn.         Wellington, New Zealand
wv.           West Virginia, USA
zer.          German language newsgroups (now Z-Netz.*)
zipnews.      Zippo's News Services


author: Tabeshi Raffiq

subject: c-nocem 3.6 fails to compile

text:
Hi,

I try to run c-nocem on my newsserver running inn; a linux box redhat
6.2.

It fails:
b/history\" -o fastcancel.o -c fastcancel.cfastcancel.c: In function
`do_new':
fastcancel.c:110: `idxrec' undeclared (first use in this function)
fastcancel.c:110: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
fastcancel.c:110: for each function it appears in.)
fastcancel.c:110: parse error before `ov'
fastcancel.c:175: `ov' undeclared (first use in this function)
fastcancel.c:178: warning: passing arg 2 of `dbzstore' makes
integerfrom pointer without a castfastcancel.c: In function `do_one':
fastcancel.c:267: `idxrec' undeclared (first use in this function)
fastcancel.c:267: parse error before `ov'
fastcancel.c:301: `ov' undeclared (first use in this function)***
Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `fastcancel.o'

I'm in no way a programmer, so I downloaded (after checking the
source and could not figure out where and how to define these two
functions) 3.5.... and 3.4... and 3.3... and 3.2... and 3.1...and
tried. I intended to even try release 2.x, but was unable to get
them.

A 2-hourly search on deja did not bring any solution: it rather seems
it's only me ! :-(

Can anyone around point me in the right direction or a quick diff or
something else to get this stuff running ?

Thanks,
T.R.


author: Chris Beggy

subject: Re: c-nocem 3.6 fails to compile

text:
[email] (Tabeshi Raffiq) writes:

I had the same problem, on a glibc2 machine, slackware
distribution.  I punted after a little fiddling and got
perl-nocem working instead.

  http://www.isc.org/ml-archives/inn-workers/2001/05/msg00177.html

Good luck.

Chris


author: Roland E. Lipovits

subject: Re: c-nocem 3.6 fails to compile

text:
Tabeshi Raffiq <[email]> wrote:
(...)

AFAIR c-nocem compiles only when INN is configured
with --enable-tagged-hash.

HTH,
Lipo


author: Big-8 CEO

subject: Re: Sadly supporting moderation

text:
Brine wrote:

The goal of the aligators of verification.thresholds.sledge hammers is to keep the
domain civil and on topic.  Suggestions and responses are totally
confiscated.  (By the action, you do discover that the swindlers of
dismissal.substitutes.determinations and the huged forgers for the signal being
cleaned are two automatically slutty thresholds, right?)

The arrogant bastards of self-destruction.deceptions.suicides have no stake in the model
being debilitated, so the garbage of them not "liking" an evil has no
disease.  The goal of the disagreement is to explore rules and
thresholds.  It would be hornless to filter them out.


author: -Lost

subject: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Why do people use X-No-Archive?

I searched for some information that was posted to me a couple years
ago, and found that they used that header.  Now their information is
lost forever.  (Right?)

I think it sucks.


author: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
In <[email]>, on 07/29/2007
   at 12:17 AM, -Lost <[email]> said:

Because it suits their needs.

Perhaps, but it's the poster's right to decide whether to use it.


author: William Poaster

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
It was on, or about,  Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:35:38 -0400, that as I was
halfway through a large jam doughnut, Black Dragon wrote:

<snip drivel>

Ah, the BD troll.

Bye, idiot.


author: Incognito

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Well, if the reader abhors being confronted with opinions of
individuals who understandably see no necessity of revealing their
incognito in the course of Internet discussions, then, indeed, a
remailer filter is a solution. Who cares?

Correct.


author: Peter J Ross

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
In news.software.readers on 30 Jul 2007 04:27:14 GMT, Blinky the Shark
<[email]> wrote:

<...>

That's a news server, not a remailer.

<http://www.x-privat.org/international.php>


author: Top

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:17:42 -0600, Incognito wrote:

So says you, yeah right


author: Oliver Cromm

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
* -Lost wrote:

For at least a dozen different reasons, and because it's their reight.
Don't you think so?

Was it posted or was it sent to you? "Posted to me" sounds like "they
told me on TV that ..."

So what, you are lost from the start.


author: Mike Easter

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
-Lost wrote:

"Use of X-No-Archive began when DejaNews debuted in early 1995. DejaNews
was the first large-scale, commercial attempt to archive the Usenet news
feed, and a number of regular newsgroup participants were concerned
about privacy rights, as well as the possibility that their messages
could be re-posted through DejaNews at some point in the future."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-No-Archive  "When DejaNews was purchased
by Google, Google continued to honor the X-No-Archive protocol.
Beginning in 2005, Google's newsgroup service (Google Groups) changed
its handling of X-No-Archive, allowing messages with the header to be
archived and made available for view for a period of six days; after six
days, the message was then deleted from the archive."

"Other newsgroup archiving services have also followed in DejaNews'
footsteps, though the decision not to archive X-No-Archive messages has
been entirely voluntary. Uffgle Groups is a smaller spinoff that does
not honor X-No-Archive requests."

Gmane honors a variety of no-archive formats.


author: Blinky the Shark

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
-Lost wrote:

They don't want their posting persona to be held responsible for what
they've said.


author: Whiskers

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
On 2007-07-29, -Lost <[email]> wrote:

To stop Google from providing indefinite public access to that article.
There are all sorts of reasons why someone might want that.

Perhaps you could have saved your own copy of that article.  Usenet is
essentially a transient thing; Google and other archives are never going
to be complete and might vanish overnight for all sorts of reasons.


author: badgolferman

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
-Lost, 7/29/2007,12:17:09 AM, wrote:

To keep others from searching the archives and using their words
against them in future battles.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
-Lost <[email]> wrote:

I suppose they have their reasons?

Not exactly right.  Every post is archived somewhere and Google isn't
the only place archiving.  Unfortunately, archives other than Google
are almost all private and not accessible to most of us.  That's no
help to you so......

.....did you reply to the post with the info?  Did anyone else?  Did
you quote the information? Did any of the other replies?  If so, search
that newsgroup for the topic and look at subsequent posts (if you
haven't already), they will still be there and the information will be
in the quotes.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
It was on, or about,  Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:34:46 +0000, that as I was
halfway through a large jam doughnut, Blinky the Shark wrote:

He doesn't seem to think that there are *other* newsgroup archiving
services which *don't* honour the XNA header.
So it's a waste of time, IMO.


author: Zaghadka

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 00:17:09 -0400, in news.software.readers, -Lost wrote:

There are many ways to use Usenet. Two common ways are as a public forum and
information source or as a cocktail party. Different groups have different
requirements.

In informational groups, I agree with you, x-no-archive sucks and is pointless.
There's no way to track people who give spurious information, and if you are
giving useful information, why woudn't the helpful person want people to find
it years later?

In more colloquial discussion groups, especially in "alt" and especially ones
regarding politics, it's probably best if the archives "forget" what is said.
Otherwise, people aren't allowed to develop ideas and truly speak their minds,
as they're constantly hedging their bets against those who would hold
everything they say against them, such as governments.

Some people use x-no-archive to dodge responsibility for what they say, but
that perception is mostly false. For the most part, people who use the
no-archive bit use it for various reasons of privacy, and a more
"conversational" Usenet vs. a repository of everything they type.

I usually x-no-archive my posts, but not in informational groups if I remember
to change my defaults. If I'm trying to provide actual information, I feel it
*should* be archived. If I'm holding a conversation, I prefer the computer to
forget after the premiums drop the article (sometimes over a year later!).


author: Mike Yetto

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Without any attributions, Incognito wrote:

My comment was in regards to filtering Google Groupers, not
remailers.  That is not apparant here since you chose to snip the
context.

==== <csnipped context replaces>
==== <end of context replacement>

Is this blatant manipulation of the discussion?  Or is
it a case of stupidity mistaken for malice?

And, yes, filtering GG posts does solve the problem of explicitly
ignoring worthless posts that would contain worthless opinions if
they contained any.

Mike "your incognito is showing" Yetto


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Peter J Ross wrote:

Yes, I've sloppily placed it in my remailer lines.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Oliver Cromm wrote:

To this speaker of English as a first language, it sounds like it was
posted in reply to one of his Usenet articles.


author: Anonymous

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
"Mike Easter" <[email]> wrote:

No they do NOT delete it from the archive. Google stops displaying the
message but it is still in their archive in case they change their
minds later. Look at your Google profile & you'll see that it includes
in the month by month count for any group messages that are
X-no-archive'd. Google still has them!


author: MartinS

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
"badgolferman" <[email]> wrote:

Nothing disappears for ever.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Nomen Nescio wrote:

Some people filter out everything that remailers say.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Nomen Nescio <[email]> wrote:

Easy to do on a *n*x system with mixmaster and slrn.

Sometimes you may want to follow-up or reply anonymously to an article
you are reading in slrn.  Here's how.

Put the code from [1] in "$HOME/.slrn/mixmaster.sl".  Put the code
from [2] in "$HOME/.slrnrc".

[1]
define mixmaster_ff ()
{
    pipe_article("mixmaster -ff");

}

definekey ("mixmaster_ff", "&", "article");

define mixmaster_fr ()
{
    pipe_article("mixmaster -fr");

}

definekey ("mixmaster_fr", "\e&", "article");

[2]
interpret ".slrn/mixmaster.sl"

Now when you're in article mode, you can hit & to make an anonymous
follow-up or ESC-& to make an anonymous mail reply.

HTH!


author: jellybean stonerfish

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:38:48 +0000, Anonymous wrote:

I was under the impression that X-No-Archive was used if you were making
posts that you did not want to polute the archive.  I have no reference
for this, it just seems to be an obvious purpose.
For example;
	A discussion about networking code.  In the thread, hacker A may use a
	strange variable name.  Hacker B responds with a joke, a fun post with no
	technical merit.  B uses X-No-Archive so that next year when he and
	others are looking through the thread to understand why the code is the
	way it is, they don't have to read silly jokes.
Remailers and other tricks are used if you want to hide who you are.

Wiki seems to say otherwise.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Anonymous wrote:

<citing wiki article on XNA>

You are addressing the wiki word I cited, 'delete'.

Google's words on the subject are not exactly the same as the wiki
words.  The wiki 'overstates' the concept of 'deleting' -- whereas
google presents it as 'accessibility'.  Gmane is also explanatory about
the difference between deleting and making inaccessible.

http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=46487&topic=9253 I
don't want you to archive my articles! How can I keep my messages from
being archived on Google Groups?  - Any post that contains the text
"X-No-Archive:" either in the message headers of their post or as the
very first text in the first line of the message body will be displayed
on Google Groups for only seven days and won't be searchable after it's
removed.

<Google doesn't use the term 'deleted' at all, just 'display' and
searchable>

I'm beginning to think that GG has completely eliminated the ability to
search GG for usenet posts by mid.

http://gmane.org/expiry.php  Gmane respects the X-No-Archive, Archive
and X-Archive headers. -- Implementation -- Gmane implements expiry with
cancel messages. Once a day, the expiry log is processed, and any
articles that are found to have expired will be canceled. On the main
Gmane site, cancel messages result in the messages disappearing from
both the news and web interfaces, but the messages won't really be
deleted. They will, however, be totally and utterly gone from public
view.


author: Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer

subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
And some filter Google postings ...

But isn't that a problem the individual reader has to deal with
instead of blaming the originator of the message?
.


subject: Re: Why do people use X-No-Archive?

text:
Bada bing Cyberiade.it
Anonymous Remailer <[email]> bada bang:

The filter is a solution to the problem that the individual
reader thereby solved.

Having an X-No-Archive header does nothing more to keep a quote
of OP out of an archive than my X-No-Bananas header.

    Mike "law of Conservation of somethingorother" Yetto


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Galactic Federation to Usenet

text:
In article <[email]>,
Rikijo II  <[email]> wrote:

No, he's just a netkook.


author: Dan Baldwin

subject: Re: Galactic Federation to Usenet

text:
Fucknozzle Junior learned a new trick and tried to hide the following
whinge below a .sig delimiter :

Hey, Nozzys back!

So did you spend your entire week away from Usenet coming up with that
stinging barb? I should complement you, though - at least you didn't
toss the word 'feathers' in.

I thought by now you would have clued into my purpose here (since I've
out and out stated it a few times). I'm here to watch you make a
frothing jackass of yourself in pretty much any group you post. I'm here
to watch you alienate the few people who tried to help you understand
how things work. I'm here to watch your Quixotic quest to 'fix' Usenet
turn you into a demented ranting lunatic, just as its done to all the
kooks who've gone down that path before. I'm here in hopes that your
'net.insanity will earn you a lasting place amongst the great kooks of
days gone by.

I've always wanted to watch a sandlot loon blossom into a Major League
kook and come into his own. I'm hoping you have the staying power, since
its clear you already have the requisite combination of brain damage and
obsessive need to control others.


subject: Re: Galactic Federation to Usenet

text:
Viveshwar wrote:

20 minutes a day for this kind of entertainment? You're a huge RoI,
Nozzy.

You care so little you just can't keep me out of your killfile. Funny
how you and Edmo take so much time telling us how little you care.

I want to make sure I have a comfy ringside seat when you get AUK
removed.


author: Dr. Flonkenstein

subject: Re: Galactic Federation to Usenet

text:
Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:13:56 +0000, Viveshwar
posted:

a post starting with a sig.
How pathetic


subject: Re: Galactic Federation to Usenet

text:
Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 15 Nov 2003 07:13:56 +0000, Viveshwar
posted:

How is rmgrouping AUK going on?
Any success?


subject: v6.0-3 patches: Do they fix SET PROFILE/LINE ?

text:
Date sent:  1-SEP-1992 07:57:42

Greetings.

I'm not on the mailing list due to limited disk space at this end, and for some
reason I cannot fathom, Computer Services here elects not to carry this
newsgroup.  So, I would greatly appreciate an e-mail reply.

At the moment, it appears that our SET PROFILE/LINE command doesn't work.  A
SHOW PROFILE reveals that LINE mode has been enabled, but I still have to do a
SET LINE by hand every time I use NEWS.

Several months ago, I had an e-mail session with Bob Sloane at the University
of Kansas about some other problems with NEWS.  He informed me about the Larry
Wall patches.  I then passed the word onto our Computer Services people.  As
usual, I got no response and the patches were never applied.  But I'm trying
again.  ;-)

Do the Larry Wall patches also take care of the /LINE stuff?  Bob told me that
they take care of a number of problems including some of the return address
stuff and the message about hitting ESC for Wakito Menus.  But he didn't tell
me everything they did.  Is there a list?

Thanx for any info.

 ========== U.S. Mail ============================== E-Mail =================
 Kevin Cole      <Flatline>          |  Bitnet: [email]
 Center for Assessment and           |                  or
 Demographic Studies  (CADS)         |          [email]
 Gallaudet Research Institute  (GRI) |  Internet: [email]
 800 Florida Avenue,  N.E.           |  UUCP: ...!psuvax!gallua.bitnet!kjcole
 Washington, D.C.  20002-3625        |  CompuServe: 76167,1406
 (202) 651-5575                      |  The WELL:   kjcole
 ============================================================================
             "If they give you ruled paper, write the other way."


subject: Re: v6.0-3 patches: Do they fix SET PROFILE/LINE ?

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] writes:

I have observed this bug in v6.0-3.  LINE mode starts working after executing
the UPDATE command.

Regards,

John Bennett                                   [email]


author: Bob Sloane

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] writes:

As a workaround, you can have a logical called NEWS_INIT which points
to a file of NEWS commands to execute on startup. You can put a SET
LINE command in that file to do what the SET PROFILE/LINE command is
supposed to do. The problem appears to be fixed in V6.1.


author: Larry W. Virden

subject:
FAQ: comp.lang.tcl Frequently Asked Questions (1/5)
	(Last updated: December 17, 1993)

text:
Archive-name: tcl-faq/part1
Version: 4.4
Last-modified: December 17, 1993

	For more information concerning Tcl (see "tcl-faq/part2"),
(see "tcl-faq/part3"), (see "tcl-faq/part4"), or (see "tcl-faq/part5").

Index of questions:

I.   Origin of the comp.lang.tcl FAQ information.
II.  What is Tcl?  Tk?  Extended Tcl?
III. Do these packages run on my machine?
	A. Unix
	B. MacOS
	C. INTEL DOS-like systems
	D. VMS
	E. AmigaDOS
	F. NeXT
	G. Other
IV.  Other than C, What languages can talk to tcl/tk?
	A. Shell
	B. C++
        C. Modula-3
	D. Eiffel
	E. Ada
	F. Other
V.   Is there a bibliography of material relating to these programs?
	A. The Tcl distribution
	B. The Expect distribution
	C. Miscellaneous other online materials
	D. Published articles
	E. Training courses, materials, etc.
	F. Time-related seminars, conferences, sessions.
VI.  Where do I report problems, bugs, or enhancements - or -
	What is comp.lang.tcl?
VII. Are there any mailing lists covering topics related to Tcl/Tk?
VIII. Where can I find the FAQ and who do I contact for more information
	about it?

End of FAQ Index

----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -I- Origin of the comp.lang.tcl FAQ information.

	The information in this set of FAQs comes from several sources.  The
primary source of information is the group itself - I spend (much too
much) time each month culling through what I feel are some of the best
answers, gathering up new information on ports, etc. and adding it
here.  I also gather new application information and add it as
best I can.  The next most predominant source of information comes from
the authors of the various software packages.  Finally, a small amount
comes from my personal experiences.

	I am always on the search for folk to assist in the maintenance
of these FAQs.  In fact, if you feel that you would like to coordinate
this effort, PLEASE let me know!

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -II- What is Tcl?  Tk?  Extended Tcl?

	Tcl and Tk originated with Dr. John Ousterhout (Oh'-stir-hout -
last syllable rhymes with rout, not root) from the University of California,
Berkeley, California.

	Tcl (current release version 7.3) stands for ``tool command
language'' and is pronounced ``tickle.'' The author's home ftp site for
the Tcl source code is ftp.cs.berkeley.edu.  Tcl is actually two
things: a language and a library.  First, Tcl is a simple textual
language, intended primarily for issuing commands to interactive
programs such as text editors, debuggers, illustrators, and shells.  It
has a simple syntax and is also programmable, so Tcl users can write
command procedures to provide more powerful commands than those in the
built-in set.

	Second, Tcl is a library package that can be embedded in
application programs.  The Tcl library consists of a parser for the Tcl
language, routines to implement the Tcl built-in commands, and
procedures that allow each application to extend Tcl with additional
commands specific to that application.  The application program
generates Tcl commands and passes them to the Tcl parser for
execution.  Commands may be generated by reading characters from an
input source, or by associating command strings with elements of the
application's user interface, such as menu entries, buttons, or
keystrokes.  When the Tcl library receives commands it parses them into
component fields and executes built-in commands directly.  For commands
implemented by the application, Tcl calls back to the application to
execute the commands.  In many cases commands will invoke recursive
invocations of the Tcl interpreter by passing in additional strings to
execute (procedures, looping commands, and conditional commands all
work in this way).

	An application program gains three advantages by using Tcl for
its command language.  First, Tcl provides a standard syntax:  once
users know Tcl, they will be able to issue commands easily to any
Tcl-based application.  Second, Tcl provides programmability.  All a
Tcl application needs to do is to implement a few application-specific
low-level commands.  Tcl provides many utility commands plus a general
programming interface for building up complex command procedures.  By
using Tcl, applications need not re-implement these features.  Third,
extensions to Tcl, such as the Tk toolkit, provide mechanisms for
communicating between applications by sending Tcl commands back and
forth.  The common Tcl language framework makes it easier for
applications to communicate with one another.

	Tk (current release 3.6) - an extension to Tcl which provides
the programmer with an interface to the X11 windowing system.  The
author's home ftp site for the Tk source is ftp.cs.berkeley.edu.
Note that many users will encounter Tk via the ``wish'' command.  Wish
is a simple windowing shell which permits the user to write Tcl
applications in a prototyping environment.

	Extended Tcl (tclX) (Version 7.3a) - This is an extended set of
commands for Tcl developed by Karl Lehenbauer and Mark Diekhans.  The
authors' home ftp site for Extended Tcl is ftp.neosoft.com.  Extended
Tcl is oriented towards system programming tasks, with many additional
interfaces to the Unix operating system along with other useful
utilities.

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -III- Do these packages run on my machine?

A. Unix

	Tcl runs on Sun 3s and 4s running SunOS 4 and SunOS 5 (Solaris
1.x and 2.x), DECstations running Ultrix, DEC VAXen running Ultrix or
BSD, DEC Alphas running OSF/1, 386s running SCO Unix, Xenix, Bell-Tech,
Silicon Graphics running IRIX, HPs running HP-UX as well as HP Snakes
running OSF/1 and HPUX.  Intel [34]86 systems running 386bsd, netbsd,
freebsd, BSDI, and Linux have Tcl ported.  Various CPUs running System
V.4 report having ported Tcl.  Tcl also appears to be running on
Sequent Symmetry running Dynix as well as OSF/1.  It also has been
reported to run fine on IBM RS6000 under AIX 3.x as well as IBM ES/9000
and AIX/ESA.  There were few problems getting it running under Mt. Xinu
Mach.  It also has been ported to Encore 91's running UMAX V (an 88k
based System V with BSD extension Unix).  It also runs on Apollos
running BSD/SYSV.  Tcl runs on a Cray running Unicos.  At least one
person has ported Tcl to a Mac (IIfx) running A/UX v3.0.  Someone
ported Tcl to a Sony NeWS machine running NEWS-OS 4.2.
A port to a Convex 3220 and 3880 was also reported.

	Tk (being based on Tcl) requires X11R4 or better as the only
additional software requirement.  It runs on any of the above Unix
systems with that base of software.

	For information on Tcl/Tk/TclX availability (see "tcl-faq/part4").

B. MacOS

	See below for details of a Macintosh Tcl Mailing list.

---

	Ray Johnson <[email]> has a package called
MacTcl.  This is a fairly straight port of Tcl to the Macintosh.  It is
designed to be used as libraries to be embedded into other
applications.  A basic shell is included.  Most Tcl features are
present, including many Unix-like features.  Additional features
include supporting the env variable and, in the next release, sourcing
Tcl code from a resource.  The current version is
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/mactcl6.7b.sea.hqx
and a version supporting Tcl 7.0 will be available shortly after it is
released.

	As of this time, I have no leads on anyone porting Tk to MacOS.
I also have not heard of anyone porting Tcl/Tk to an Apple PowerPC.

	Also (see "tcl-faq/part4"), the Tcl programs/packages catalog,
for the latest port locations and versions.

C. INTEL DOS-like systems

	Numerous ports to DOS are available.  One unsupported port to MS-DOS
of Tcl and Extended Tcl V6.0a, done by "Karl Lehenbauer" <[email]>,
is available on ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/dostcl.zoo for
binaries and ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/dostcl60.zoo for
source.

	A port of Tcl V6.2 to MS-DOS was done by
"John Martin" <[email]> and is available via FTP from
ftp://cajal.uoregon.edu/pub/tcl.dos.port/ and
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/tcl62.dos.tar.Z .

	A source code only port of Tcl V6.7 to MS-DOS, done by
[email] (Peter Sprenger), is available from
him, somewhere on wuarchive.wustl.edu
or as
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/tcl67dos.zip .

	A port of Tcl, V6.1 ?, done by unknown, to MS-DOS Windows
V 3.1 ?, is available as binary at
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/w_tclbin.zip and as source at
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/w_tclsrc.zip .

	An MS-DOS Windows DLL instance of Tcl 6.2 was generated by
Ugo Cei <[email]>.  Contact him for more details.

	A port of Tcl Generic V6.7 (plus some minor extensions to OS/2 2.x
has been done by [email] (Bud Bach).

	A Windows DLL was made by [email] (Ekkehard Beier)
by slightly modifying a DOS 6.2 Tcl port.  There are still problems
with the system/WinExec command.  A very rudimentary Debugger User Interface
using Borland's Classlib is part of the zip-file, too.
I used it with BC3.1++/AF on MS W3.1.  You can get a copy from

ftp://metallica.prakinf.tu-ilmenau.de/pub/DOS/wintcl.zip

via anonymous ftp.  Unfortunately Ekki doesn't have time currently to
finish the Windows port and user Interface.

	Someone, whose name I don't have, reported porting Tcl to QNX
with a fair amount of hacking.

	As of this date, I have no leads on anyone porting Tk to any version
of Windows or OS/2.

	Also (see "tcl-faq/part4"), the Tcl programs/packages catalog,
for the latest port locations.

D. VMS

	A port of Tcl 6.2 and Tk 1.4 to VMS was done by Angel Li
<[email]>.  The files were at
ftp://mango.rsmas.miami.edu/pub/tcl-vms.bck.Z and
ftp://mango.rsmas.miami.edu/pub/tk-vms.bck.Z
and were compressed with the Unix compress command.  The files were VMS
BACKUP files.  A recent report has it that these files are no longer
available.

	A port of Tcl 6.3 onto VMS 5.5 was done by Wolfgang Kechel
<[email]> and Till Imanuel Panzschke.  Contact them
directly for assistance.

	A port of most of Tcl 6.7 and Tk 3.2 was done by John Kimball
<[email]> to VMS 5.5.  The files are on:
ftp://src.honeywell.com/pub/tcl67-tk32-on-vms55.tar.Z .

	Gerald W. Lester ([email]) says the following _should_ work.
If you installed the POSIX package on VMS (its free), then you should be
able to configure and make tcl.  To access tcl you would have to do one
of the following: 1) Use the POSIX shell, or 2) do a "psx tcl".
Tcl scripts would not execute directly from DCL; to execute a script foo.tcl
from DCL you would have to do "psx foo.tcl".
DISCLAIMER: I have not built any version of tcl under VMS POSIX, these
comments are based on other work I've done with VMS POSIX.

	A port of Tcl 7.0 and Tk 3.3 has being done to VMS on the
VAX and Alpha.  These are available as:
ftp://src.honeywell.com/pub/vms-tcl/tcl70-tk33-on-vms55.tar.Z

	Also (see "tcl-faq/part4"), the Tcl programs/packages catalog,
for the latest port locations.

E. AmigaDOS

	Karl Lehbauer <[email]> has indicated that
he started a port of Tcl 3.x to the Amiga.  He has a working
version, but is no longer working on it.  His version uses the
Amiga's shared libraries and implements the "send" command.
He wrote a MIDI file loader and player as well.  Contact him for
further details.

	Ty Sarna <[email]> has ported Tcl 6.x to the Amiga.
He says:

	Another Amiga user, [email] (Colas Nahaboo), mentioned
that using Amiga gcc and the PD X server DaggeX and Xlibs that a port of
Tk might be possible.

	[email] (Marco van der Heiden) has completed a port
to the Amiga, and suggests Amiga developers contact him by email.  Also
Ingo Wilken ([email]) wrote that
he was working on a port to the Amiga, with a goal of creating
a shared library system.

	Also (see "tcl-faq/part4"), the Tcl programs/packages catalog,
for the latest port locations.

F. NeXT

Gianmaria Bertanzon <[email]> reports:

	Also (see "tcl-faq/part4"), the Tcl programs/packages catalog,
for the latest port locations.

G. Other

	A port to the Apple IIgs and GNO 1.1/GSOS environment is underway.

	A beta port of Tcl 7 has been done to VxWorks.
	You can find it at thor.atd.ucar.edu:~ftp/pub/vx/tclvx7.0.v2.tar.gz .

	Also (see "tcl-faq/part4"), the Tcl programs/packages catalog,
for the latest port locations.

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -IV- Other than C, what languages can talk to tcl/tk?

A. Shell
	There are at least two interfaces which are shell-like.  The
first is wish, which is a windowing shell like interface that is a part
of the Tk package.  The second is tcl, a line command interpreter that
is part of the Extended Tcl package.

B. C++
	Check out tcl++.h in Extended Tcl.  Based on an original
implementation by Parag Patel, it defines a Tcl interpreter class by
which Tcl interpreters can be created as objects under C++.

	Also, ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/distrib/tk3.2forC++.patch
is a patch that allows tk 3.2 main.c and other extension routines
to be compiled with a C++ compiler.  Thanks to Ken Yap <[email]>
for this code.

	Mark Diekhans and Karl Lehenbauer have used this, in
combination with the handle facility in Extended Tcl, to build Tcl
commands around C++ classes.

	The Tcl handle facility provides a way to manage table entries
that can be referenced by a textual handle from Tcl code.  This is
provided for applications that need to create data structures in one
command, return a reference (i.e. pointer) to that particular data
structure and then access that data structure in other commands.  An
example application is file handles.

	A handle table was built containing pointers to the instances
of a class that were to be accessed from Tcl, say a class `foo_cl', and
then a "new" command defined that created an instance of that class and
returned a Tcl handle to it.  The handle could then passed among Tcl
commands that accessed each member function.  The handle is in effect
an explicit `this' pointer.

	For example:

     set obj [foo_cl::new]
     foo_cl::baz $obj "Hello world"
     foo_cl::delete $obj

It's not totally object-oriented, but it's still very usable.

C. Modula-3
	Norman Ramsey <elan.uucp!nr> says:
	A long time back, Eric Muller posted a Modula-3 interface to
the C Tcl library.  I wrote down a Modula-3/Tcl interface that used
Modula-3 types rather than C types, and that used objects to build
closures for commands.  I wrote part of the implementation but never
finished it.  I have mailed copies to [email], who asked the
question, and I will post them if there seems to be general interest.

D. Eiffel
	[email] (Stephan Herrmann) says:
	... [the tclish package provides] the marriage of two very different
principles by means of combining two programming languages into a
hybrid program architecture.

E. Ada
	[email] (Dennis Heimbigner) introduced
an adatcl package which gives Ada programmers access to Tcl interpreters.
See the catalog for details of the package.

F. Other

	Duncan Sinclair <[email]> has details of a hack
into wish.c some hooks for a Tk <-> any language system, and has been using
it for communication with functional languages such as Haskell and Lazy ML.
A paper, plus sample code, is available by ftp from
ftp://ftp.dcs.gla.ac.uk/pub/glasgow-fp/authors/Duncan_Sinclair/fumx.* .

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -V- Is there a bibliography of material relating to these
		programs?

A. The Tcl distribution

	With the Tcl distribution there is a Postscript version of a Usenix
paper introducing Tcl.  With the Tk distribution, there is a Postscript
version of a Usenix paper introducing Tk.

Ousterhout, J.K., (1990) ``TCL: An Embeddable Command Language'', in
the Proceedings of the 1990 Winter USENIX Conference, pp 133-146.

Ousterhout, J.K., (1991) ``An X11 Toolkit Based on the TCL Language'',
in the Proceedings of the 1991 Winter USENIX Conference, pp 105-115.

Postscript file for introductory papers on Tcl and Tk are available as
the public FTP area on ftp.cs.berkeley.edu (Internet address
128.32.149.78).  Their address is:

ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/tclUsenix90.ps
ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/tkUsenix91.ps
ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/tkF10.ps

(The last of these files is the contents of Figure 10 of the Tk paper)

If you have trouble retrieving the papers via FTP or printing them,
send [email] your U.S. Mail address and he will mail
you paper copies.

B. The Expect distribution

	With the Expect distribution, there are several Postscript documents
available which have been published.

1. "Curing Those Uncontrollable Fits of Interaction", Proceedings of the
Summer 1990 USENIX Conference, Anaheim, CA, June 11-15, 1990.

	This paper is discussion of implementation, philosophy, and design.
	It's address is:

ftp://ftp.cme.nist.gov/pub/expect/seminal.ps.Z

2. "Using expect to Automate System Administration Tasks", Proceedings of
the 1990 USENIX Large Systems Administration Conference (LISA) IV,
Colorado Springs, CO, October 17-19, 1990.

	This paper is discussion and examples, specifically aimed at system
	administrators.  The address of this paper is:

ftp://ftp.cme.nist.gov/pub/expect/sysadm.ps.Z

3. "expect: Scripts for Controlling Interactive Programs", Computing
Systems, Vol. 4, No. 2, University of California Press Journals, 1991.

	A comprehensive paper of example scripts.  This paper's address is:

ftp://ftp.cme.nist.gov/pub/expect/scripts.ps.Z

4. "Regression Testing and Conformance Testing Interactive Programs",
Proceedings of the Summer 1992 USENIX Conference, San Antonio, CA,
June 8-12, 1992.

	This paper discusses the application of expect to the verification
	of software.  This paper's address is:

ftp://ftp.cme.nist.gov/pub/expect/regress.ps.Z

5. "Kibitz - Connecting Multiple Interactive Programs Together",
Software - Practice & Experience, John Wiley & Sons, West
Susses, England, Vol. 23, No. 5, May 1993.

	This paper is a discussion of using Tcl and Expect to connect multiple
	interactive programs together.  This paper's address is:

ftp://ftp.cme.nist.gov/pub/expect/kibitz.ps.Z

C. Miscellaneous other online materials

1. The ftp address for a FrameMaker MIF file containing a Quick Reference guide
to Tcl is:

ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/docs/QuickRef.tar.Z

Many thanks to "Jeff Tranter" <[email]> for
contributing it.

2. PostScript versions of the man pages were provided by
"Adrian Ho" <[email]>.  The addresses for these are:

ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/docs/tcl6.3.manps.tar.Z
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/docs/tclX6.2b.manps.tar.Z
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/docs/tk2.1.manps.tar.Z

3. An early draft of the following text book is available:

Title:                  Tcl and the Tk Toolkit
Author:                 John K. Ousterhout
Publisher:              Addison-Wesley
Expected availability:  February 1994
ISBN:                   0-201-63337-X

	The section dealing with writing Tcl scripts is:
ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/book.p1.ps.Z

	The section dealing with writing Tcl scripts for Tk is:
ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/book.p2.ps.Z

	The section dealing with writing Tcl applications in C is:
ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/book.p3.ps.Z

	The section dealing with writing Tk widgets and geometry managers
in C is:
ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/book.p4.ps.Z

The first two parts are about 130 pages in length and the third and fourth
parts are less than 70 pages in length each.  This is ONLY a draft and is not
permitted to be redistributed.

4. A series of PostScript slides used in a tutorial on Tcl and Tk at
the 1993 X Conference are available as:

ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/tcl/tut.tar.Z

5. A set of Postscript files collected for the Tcl 93 workshop proceedings
is available as:

ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/workshop/tcl93-proceedings.tar.Z

	This file contains the following papers:

a. "A Debugger for Tcl Applications", by Don Libes, National Institute
of Standards and Technology.

	Describes a debugger for Tcl applications.

b. "A Compiler for the Tcl Language", by Adam Sah and Jon Blow, University
of California, Berkeley, CA.

	A discussion of the design issues for providing a compiler for the Tcl
	language.

c. "[incr tcl] - Object-Oriented Programming in TCL", by Michael J. McLennan,
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Allentown, PA.

	Describes a set of extensions for organizing Tcl procedures and
data into packages.

d. "CASTE: A class system for Tcl", by Michael S. Braverman, University of
California, Berkeley, CA.

	Introduces a structured object class extension for Tcl.

e. "Interfacing an Object-Oriented Database System from Tcl", by
Dietmar Theobald, Forschungszentrum Informatik, Karlsruhe Germany

	A generic interface extension to an object-oriented database.

f. "Tcl Distributed Programming", by Brian C. Smith, Lawrence A. Rowe, and
Stephen C. Yen, University of California, Berkeley, CA.

	Introduces the Tcl-DP extension to Tcl.

g. "Cooperating Applications through Tcl/Tk and DCE", by David Richardson,
University of Michigan

	Description of integrating Tcl/Tk into Open Software Foundation's
Distributed Computing Environment.

h. "NeoSoft Whiteboard - A framework for Internet-based Collaboration",
by Karl Lehenbauer, Ellyn Mustard, NeoSoft, Inc., Brad Morrison,
Paranet, Inc.

	Describes a generic groupware framework using Tcl/Tk.

i. "Tcl/Tk as a Basis for Groupware", by Mark Roseman, University of Calgary,
Alberta Canada

	Why Tcl/Tk provides a good environment for groupware developers.

j. "Tcl and Tk Use in the Artifact Based Collaboration System", by
John Menges and Mark Parris, University of North Carolina.

	Describes a collaboration system being built at UNC whose user
interfaces are based on Tk.

k. "Ak: An Audio Toolkit for Tcl/Tk", by Andrew C. Payne, Digital Equipment
Corporation, Cambridge Research Lab.

	Describes Ak, an audio extension for Tcl build on the AudioFile
System.

l. "A Tcl/Tk Continuous Media Player", by Brian C. Smith, Lawrence A. Rowe, and
Stephen C. Yen, University of California, Berkeley, CA.

	A Tk application that supports playback of live digital audio and
	video on a Unix workstation.

m. "Tcl in a High-Throughput Biological Lab", by Scott P. Hunicke-Smith &
Dan Mosedale, Stanford Yeast Genome Project

	Description of use of Tcl based control of a laboratory robot.

n. "Autonomous Knowledge Agents - How Agents use the Tool Command Language",
by Raymond W. Johnson, Lockheed Missiles and Space Corporation, Palo Alto,
CA.

	Descriptions of traits of a software agent and how one of these
traits led to the use of Tcl.

o. "Implementing a Visualization of an Industrial Productions Cell Using
Tcl/Tk", by Arthur Brauer, Claus Lewerentz, and Thomas Lindner,
Forschungszentrum Informatik, Karlsruhe Germany.

	Discussion of a complex animated simulation written using Tk/Tcl.

p. "Writing Object-oriented Tcl-based Systems using Objectify", by
Wayne A. Christopher, University of California, Berkeley, CA.

	Describes Objectify, a facility for integrating C++ classes into
	Tcl-based systems.

q. "Use of Tcl/Tk in DTS, an Interactive Optimization and Scheduling System",
by Benjamin Fried, Aleks Gollu and Othar Hansson, Heuristicrats Research Inc.

	An abstract of the work being done with Tcl in a NASA scheduling
system.

r. "Embedding a Scheme Interpreter in the Tk Toolkit", by
Erick Gallesio, Valbonne, France.

	Describes STk, which is a Tk package with Scheme replacing Tcl.

s. "The Next, Best Thing in File Browsers", by Michael A. Harrison,
Thomas A. Phelps, University of California, Berkeley, CA.

	Describes NBT, an extended NeXTSTEP file selection box.

t. "Tcl/Tk - An Integration Vehicle for the Microwave/Millimeter-Wave
Pilot Sites (MMPS)", by Kevin B. Kenny, Brion D. Sarachan,
Robert N. Sum Jr., and Wayne H. Uejio, GE Corporate R&D.

	Describes developing wrappes for commercial vendor
applications like FrameMaker (R) and Xess (R).

u. "Generalising a File Manager into an Address Book and Other Things",
by J. D. Newmarch, University of Canberra, Australia

	Describing a redesign of an X file manager to allow the best
features of a command line environment and a graphical interface.

v. "Noosa: Execution Monitoring using Tcl and Tk", by Anthony M. Sloane,
University of Colorado.

	An overview of an event-based execution monitoring system.

w. "An Interactive Compiler Development System", by Gary S. Tyson,
Robert J.  Shaw and Matthew K. Farrens, University of California, Davis, CA.

	Describes an interactive graphical optimizer.

6. A second set of Postscript files consisting primarily of overhead slides
is available as:

ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/workshop/tcl93-proceedings2.tar.Z

	This file (tcl93-proceedings2) contains the following slides:

a. "Cooperating Applications through Tcl/Tk and DCE", by David Richardson,
University of Michigan.

b. "Ak An Audio Toolkit for Tcl & Tk", by Andrew Payne, Digital Equipment
Corporation, Cambridge Research Laboratory.

c. "Tcl Distributed Programming", by Brian C. Smith, Lawrence A. Rowe,
Stephen C. Yen, University of California at Berkeley.

d. "Supervisory Control Language - Applying Tcl to the Realtime Arena"
presentation by Computerized Processes Unlimited, Inc.

e. "Tcl / Tk as a Basis for Groupware" by Mark Roseman

	This file (tcl93-proceedings2) contains the PostScript for the paper:

f. "A Table Manager for Tk", by G. A. Howlett <[email]>,
ATT.

	This file (tcl93-proceedings2) also contains Usenet postings by:

h.	/* ???? */
i.	/* ???? */
j.	/* ???? */
k.	/* ???? */

7. The Tcl Compiler (TC) Frequently Asked Questions by Adam Sah
<[email]> is a document describing TC, which is a work
in progress.  Contact Adam for details.

8. A compact yet detailed overview of Tcl, Tk and Xf is available thanks
to the graciousness of [email] (Dietmar Theobald) at:

ftp://ftp.fzi.de/pub/OBST/OBST3-3/psfiles/TclTk_notes.ps.Z
(compressed format) and
ftp://ftp.fzi.de/pub/OBST/OBST3-3/psfiles/TclTk_notes.ps.gz (gzip format)

9. Softcopy of an article about PhoneStation, a tool using Tk and Tcl, was
presented at the 1993 Winter USENIX Conference.

Uhler, Stephen A. (1993) ``PhoneStation, Moving the Telephone onto the
Virtual Desktop'', in the Proceedings of the 1993 Winter USENIX Conference,
pp ??-??

A softcopy of the paper is available as
ftp://bellcore.com/pub/PhoneStation/USENIX.ps

10. VanAndel, J.H., 1993: ``Design of a New Radar Control and Data Acquisition
System''.  Preprints, 26th Conference on Radar Meteorology, Norman, Oklahoma

The paper is available in postscript form via the experimental web server:
<a href="http://www.atd.ucar.edu/jva/RadarControl.AMS.ps"> Radar Control PS </a>

11. Mark A. Harrison <[email]>  has written a Tk/Tcl
information sheet, providing an introductory look at why one might want to
use Tcl and Tk.  Version 1.0 was posted to comp.lang.tcl as
<278ml0$[email]>.  Contact him for a copy.

12. Cedric Beust <[email]> has written a short article
giving guidelines on where to start when writing a Tcl extension.  You
may find it at ftp://avahi.inria.fr/tcl/writing-a-tcl-extension.ps .

13. Douglas Pan and Mark Linton <[email]> have
written the paper ``Dish: A Dynamic Invocation Shell for Fresco''.
It is available at ftp://sgi.com/graphics/fresco/dish.ps.Z .  The FAQ
as well as some other papers are in ftp://sgi.com/graphics/fresco .
Fresco is an X Consortium project - non-members interested in contributing
to the effort should contact Mark Linton.

D. Published articles and books

1. Computer Shopper, V12 N12, page 862 had an article referencing Tickle,
the shareware package under Macintosh System 7 which is based on Tcl.

2. MacWEEK, V6 N32, page 91 had an article referencing Alpha 5.0, the
Macintosh editor which incorporates Tcl.

3. Computer Language, V9 N7, page 76 had an article referencing Tcl in
a hardware/software testing package which talks to a remote machine via
a proprietary interface card.

4. SunWorld, V5 N10, pages 95-96 had a article discussing Tcl, Tk and
expect.

5. UNIX REVIEW, V11 N4, pages 93-94, by Richard Morin.  The article,
a part of "The Internet Notebook", is about Tcl, Tk, and friends.
It mentions a little about Tcl and Tk, where to find the
sources, where to find the draft of the book, and where to find the
contributed software.

6. SunExpert, V4 N3, pages 32-36, by Richard Morin.  As part of Morin's
I/Opener series of articles, this is just a brief overview of Tcl and Tk.
It mentions some of the technical ideas behind Tcl and Tk, where to find
the Tcl source and mentions that the draft of the book is available on
ftp.cs.berkeley.edu.  A 'hello, world' 3 line wish script is really
all that is shown.

7. Libes, Don, "Obfuscated C and Other Mysteries", Wiley & Sons,
January 1993.

This book has a whole chapter on Tcl.  Aimed at the C programmer, it
describes how to effectively use Tcl from C applications.  Another
chapter is on Expect - a walk-through of some of the more interesting
code in Expect.  These chapters originally appeared as separate
articles in The C Users Journal, Vol. 8, No. 7, July 1990, and Vol. 9,
No. 1, 1991.  (Incidentally, the reason the book has such a peculiar
title is that it also contains explanations of the Obfuscated C Code
Contest winners.)

8.  IEEE Design & Test of Computers, June 1993, pages 46-54,
"RISE++: A Symbolic Environment for Scan-Based Testing" by Steve Vinoski.
An article describing a system called the Remote Interactive Scan
Environment (RISE++) that marries Tcl with RPC for the purpose of
testing remote computer systems.

9. The X Journal, March-April 1993, pages 74-81, "HYPERTOOLS
A revolution in GUI applications" (listed in the TOC as "Hypertools: A GUI
revolution") by John K. Ousterhout and Lawrence A. Rowe.

10. Proceedings 1993 Tcl/Tk Workshop, Berkeley, CA, June, 1993.  See above
for online version information concerning these proceedings.

11. iX (multiuser/multitasking magazine), September 1993,
pages 76-84 and 182-185.  Two articles written in the German language.
These concern the design (interpreter and library) of Tcl/Tk and its
connections with C++.  The articles say where to find the packages and
some associated tools (such as XF).  There are short examples on how to
write programs with Tcl/Tk (taken from the demo-directory of the
package) and examples on using XF.  Very informative.

Additional bibliographic references are still being sought.

E. Training courses, materials, etc.

1. There have been, in the past, seminars at Usenix and the MIT X
conference taught by John Ousterhout on Tcl and Tk.  See above for the
slides from the most recent of these presentations.  Other conferences
are also mentioning Tcl and Tk in their announcements.  Recently the
Usenix Very High Level Language Conference mentioned Tcl.

2. NeoSoft Communications Services ( [email], (713) 684-5900 ,
9am - 4pm CDT M-F ) can teach introductory and advanced Tcl courses on
site or at their location in Houston, Texas.  A syllabus and pricing
information are available on request.  Please contact Ellyn Mustard at
(713) 684-5900 or via email to [email] for more details.

3. Computerized Processes Unlimited ( [email], (504) 889-2784
4200 S. I-10 Service Road, Suite #205, Metairie, LA 70001 )
has a combined Tcl/Tclx reference manual for sale.  It groups the commands
by chapter based on functionality and has an extensive index.  They
also offer courses on Tcl.  For instance:

1. Course Title:           Introduction to Programming in Tcl

Course Length:          2 Days

Course Format:          Course material is presented in a lecture format and
                        through a hands on laboratory using a
                        network of X terminals connected to a RISC workstation.
Course Description:     This course introduces the participant to programming
                        in Tcl/TclX.

                        Topics include:
                                - Variables
                                - Arrays
                                - Lists
                                - Keyed Lists
                                - Syntax
                                - Flow control
                                - Procedures
                                    o Creating
                                    o Invoking
                                    o Passing variables
                                    o Passing arrays
                                    o Passing lists
                                - Running programs from Tcl
                                - Communicating with child processes
                                - Signal handling
                                - Error processing
                                - Accessing system facilities
                                - Programming techniques
                                   o Using autoloading procedures
                                   o Proper use of quoting

Course Level:           Technical: Beginner to Intermediate

Prerequisites:          Use of vi or emacs editors
                        Exposure to programming concepts
                        Use of csh/ksh (not programming)

2. Course Title:           Building Graphical User Interfaces in Tk

Course Length:          2 Days

Course Format:          Course material is presented in a lecture format and
                        re-enforced through a hands on laboratory using a
                        network of X terminals connected to a RISC workstation.
Course Description:     This course introduces the participant to building
                        graphical user interfaces using Tcl/Tk.

                        Topics include:
                                - Background Concepts
                                - A tour of the widgets
                                - Adding Bindings
                                - Widget Class Bindings
                                - Geometry Managers
                                - Running programs from Tcl/Tk
                                - Communicating with child processes
                                - Writing widgets in Tcl/Tk
                                - Programming techniques
                                   o Proper use of quoting
                                - Interface Builders for Tk

Course Level:           Technical: Beginner to Intermediate

Prerequisites:          CPU's "Introduction to Programming in Tcl" course
                        or understanding and experience using Tcl

4. A physical copy of the Tcl / Tk distributed documentation is
available at the Northside Copy Central in Berkeley under the name "TCL" and
is titled "Tcl/Tk Documents".  Northside Copy Central is at 1862 Euclid
with a phone of (510) 849-9600.  It costs approx. $15-$20 for the book in
a spiral bound, pink cover, clear plastic front and back format.

5. At the Boston X Technical Conference, on January 24th, 1994, a day long
Tcl/Tk tutorial will be presented by [email] (Andrew Payne).
It is aimed at the beginning Tcl/Tk programmer and Andrew hopes to do
a narrated tour of the Tk widgets.

Also at this conference, John Menges will be presenting
"Constructing X Pseudo-Servers with the X Protocol Engine Library (XPEL)"
in an all day tutorial.  This is a C++ library to which one can use Tcl
to communicate.

F.  Time-related seminars, conferences, sessions.

1. A Tcl/Tk workshop was held June 10-11, 1993 at University of
California at Berkeley.  The workshop proceedings are going to be made
available for ftp in the near future.  The bibliographic references for
the articles published will be added in the near future.

2. Classes on Tcl and Tk have been held at Usenix and the MIT X
Developers Conferences in the past.  The most recent one that I have seen
mentioned occurred during the Summer Usenix in Cincinnati, OH.  At least
three sessions related in some manner to Tcl/Tk - the Unix Power Tools
(Monday) and the Tcl/Tk (Tuesday) tutorials, as well as the Unix guru
session with John Ousterhout on Tuesday night.

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -VI- Where do I report problems, bugs, or enhancements - or -
		What is comp.lang.tcl?

	There are two alternatives for reporting bugs and problems.
The first is the USENET news group news:comp.lang.tcl, an unmoderated USENET
newsgroup, created for the discussion of the Tcl programming language
and tools that embed it, such as the Tk toolkit for the X window
system, expect, and Extended Tcl.  Please note that postings of source
code to comp.lang.tcl do not get archived to harbor.ecn.purdue.edu - if
you want your code to be available from the User Contributions archive
you will need to make arrangements for someone to ftp it there.  See
elsewhere in the FAQ for more details on the archive site.

	The second would be to report problems, suggestions, new
ideas, etc. to the author.  Email to

[email] (John Ousterhout)

will get comments to the author of Tcl and Tk - to find the
email address of the authors of other Tcl/Tk based programs,
(see "tcl-faq/part3"), (see "tcl-faq/part4"), (see "tcl-faq/part5").

	At least one short term archive of comp.lang.tcl is available for
anonymous ftp from ftp://csc.canberra.edu.au/pub/motif/comp.lang.tcl .

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
VII. Are there any mailing lists covering topics related to Tcl/Tk?

	There are quite a number of mailing lists which cover topics
relating to the Tcl community.  As you begin one, if you will send
me information relating to the mailing list, I will add it below.

o	VMS Tcl/Tk

	Folks interested in Tcl on VMS in general can sign up to the
	[email] mailing list for more details.
	An archive for the mailing list is available at:
	ftp://src.honeywell.com/pub/vms-tcl/mailinglist.archive

o	Macintosh Tcl

		W. Ross Brown <[email]> previously maintained a
	mailing list for discussion of Tcl on the Macintosh.  This list
	is being phased out and users are encouraged to move to the new
	Macintosh Tcl Mailing list.  Here is it's announcement:

	---

		This Mailing List is devoted to the issues of Tcl on
	the Macintosh.  This includes (but not limited to) such
	topics as ports of Tcl to the Mac (MacTcl), Tcl questions
	relating only to the Mac (file I/O etc.), and porting of Tk to
	the Mac.

		A previous mailing list was supported by Ross Brown.
	Ross, however, had to manage the list by hand.  This list will
	be managed by listserv software and will hopefully be more
	active.  If you were previously on Ross's mailing list you are
	encouraged to switch to this new list.  Ross's mailing will be
	phased out shortly.

		To get more information about the mailing list send a message
	to "[email]" with the line "information mactcl" in
	the body of the message (the subject is ignored).

		To subscribe to the mailing list send a message to
	"[email]" with the line "subscribe mactcl Your Name"
	in the body of the message.  Substitute 'Your Name' with
	whatever your real name is.

		Otherwise, all posting of articles to the mailing list
	should be sent to [email].

o Tcl general discussion mailing list

		For those USENET-deprived individuals who are thus unable
	to read comp.lang.tcl, an email alternative is available.
	If you get comp.lang.tcl you do not need to sign up for this list.

		A service called "listserv" is being run out of CERN to forward
	comp.lang.tcl postings via e-mail to people who don't have direct
	access to the newsgroup.  In addition, they are archiving the newsgroup
	so you can retrieve old postings from them.  Here is some more
	information about the service:

   1) send a mail to [email] with one line in the body:

      subscribe tcltk

   2) see how it works (you will receive the mail with instructions from
      listserv);

   3) unsubscribe by a mail to [email] with one line in the
      body:

      signoff tcltk

   4) again, signing off will be confirmed by listserv

------------------------------

From: FAQ General information
Subject: -VII- Where can I find the FAQ and who do I contact for more
		information about it?

	I am going to attempt to keep a copy of this file up to date on
ftp://harbor.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/tcl/docs/tcl-faq.p0[1-5].gz .
Also, I will be posting it on a regular basis to at least comp.lang.tcl,
news.answers, and comp.answers.

	If you have corrections, enhancements, modifications,
clarifications, suggestions, ideas, new questions, new answers to
questions which have never been asked, or something else that I have
not covered above, contact me at [email].

	Many FAQs, including this one, are available on the archive
site ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news/answers .  The name under which a
FAQ is archived appears in the Archive-name line at the top of the
article.  For example, this part of the comp.lang.tcl FAQ is archived
as ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news/answers/tcl-faq/part1.Z .

	There is also a mail server from which you can obtain a copy of
the FAQ.  Send an email message to [email] or
[email]) with the word help in the body of the
message to find out how to use it.

	Also, this FAQ is available from within gopher (by looking at
any one of the gopher holes presenting news.answers or FAQ lists), from
WAIS servers (such as the comp.lang.tcl.src), and probably other
resources as well.  Let me know when you find the FAQ in new and
unusual locations so I can update this resource guide!

	A great new resource access point for the FAQ is WorldWideWeb.
The Uniform Resource Locator id for the FAQ is:

http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu:80/hypertext/faq/usenet/tcl-faq/top.html

Be sure to check this one out!

	Another great Internet resource are the archives of comp.lang.tcl.
For instance, there is at least one WAIS server which maintains indexes for
the past few days of comp.lang.tcl.  Then a complete archive of the newsgroup
is available from
ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/pub/usenet-archives/comp/lang/tcl

A good place to start is
ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/pub/usenet-archives/comp/lang/tcl/+Index
which contains a list of all the filenames and subject lines of each of the
articles.

------------------------------

End of comp.lang.tcl Frequently Asked Questions (1/5)
*****************************************************