author: oceanblue

subject: Re: Realties are inching in

text:
On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 00:31:31 -0500 "xenolith"
<[email]> wrote:

No disagreement there, it is normal to see some people whose sense
of justice is healthy enough for them to override any other
consideration.  However, I am not ready to count on them to
do me justice.  In other words, their existence while refreshing,
should be of no consequence on rethinking our broad strategy.

Here is where we majorly disagree.  Right & Wrong is not
an abstract concept and is not subject for interpretation,
regardless of how desperate our situation is.  So there is
no relativity in Right & Wrong as far as we should be
concerned.  Remember, we speak of ultimate truth when we
speak of devine definitions.  Does this sound inflexible?
I think it is meant to be inflexible, that's the idea.

I agree here.  And in essence this is what I was promoting.  They
are the people of Zemmah, and will be treated and protected
as such, under our rule.  This is the theory, and I stress on
the word theory.  But if we cannot agree on the theory, we cannot
even move beyond it, even if this is to take place a 100 years
from now, it does not matter.

I disgree here.  You only speak of modern history.  Jews have
had a history of breaking promises, and menacing every society
in which they have lived.

I also disgree here.  East European Jews are mostly responsible
for Israeli hardline stances and human right abuses, even
against their fellow Jews from Arab countries.

Absolutely I would.  Israel is a flawed concept and not a flawed
result.  Naturally, a flawed concept produces nothing but a
flawed result.  There is no room for a Jewish State in the
middle of an Arab and a Muslim world.  This is not simply
a non-tolerating statement meant to make us feel better, it
is a simple law of existence.

[valid points deleted for brevity]

Well, when I said Israel is a flawed concept, I meant to say that
for a reason.  The reason being, IMO, it is time for us to
break the mold which has contained our thinking and has limited
it to a series of reactions.  Every single Arabic conduct, has
been nothing but a reaction.  Even your valid statements, are
a list of reactions which you see more proper than other reactions.
You might be 100% right "given the circumstances"... But this is
exactly my point.  We react, because we have no strategy of our
own, but rather hope to be included in some strategic formula
which covers our region... be it the USSR, when that failed,
we turn to France!

Isn't it sad and ironic that Iraq has to wait for a British envoy
to drive a buss across Europe to make the plight of the Iraqi
people known?  Isn't sad and ironic, that Chechnya is seeking
the help of the Vatican?  How closer does disaster have to
strike before we pro-act?

Israel is a small potato in the overall formula.  Maps are
being drawn and redrawn on daily basis, based on some
strategic interests of someone, something which we totally
lack at the moment.  Israel is not some kind of an irreversable
evolution.  And the faster we break the psychological barrier
of Israel being an eternal reality we have to deal with, the
faster Israel will fade away.  Nuclear weapons are not as
unthinkably inconquorable as one might think.  It is a relative
technology, much like dynamite was when it was first invented
and people had thought it is the ultimate weapon.

When we recover our strategic place in the world, the symptoms
of our defeat will vanish one after the other, among them is
Israel.  Israel is a living symbol of our defeat as a nation
and as a civilization.  This is happened not to be our time,
but the sooner we realize that, the sooner we can recover.

The existence of Israel goes against the laws of physics and the
simplest of social and political norms, that's why it cannot
exist forever.  There is no such thing as peace with Israel.  While
Israel may enjoy the illusion of peace with some Arab countries,
both you and I know that the said peace was imposed by the
ruler of each one of those countries respectively.  Peace
with Israel is meant to ensure the longivity of Israel and
the Arab rulers (or their rule) who sign the deal.  It does not take
into consideration the welfare of the individual Arab and
Muslim, that's why it won't last.  A peace like what you
describe is not an option, the peace between the victor
and the beaten is what we are having to deal with.  It is
not up to us, nor is it up to the peaceful Jews you spoke of.

Our only strategic goal is the welfare of that same individual.
Our priority for instance, as far as Arab strategy for,
should be saving Iraq at any price.  Peace with Israel is a cruel
joke being played on us to keep us busy, much like we were kept
busy for 50 years since independence with our little wars, now
we are being kept busy with our little peace.  Meanwhile, we
continue to react, and reduce our strategy to aim at becoming
a friend of the aggressors who's sole goal is to write us off.
While we might be independent on paper, we are still occupied
from the inside.

What can we do, you ask!  Maybe not much at the moment, beyond
realizing what it takes to once again make our priority the
Arab and the Muslim individual.. and that won't be achieved
by signing a peace deal with Israel.  I am not even sure this
is relevant to our strategy, that's why I am indifferent to
any peace treaties with Israel, because it will be of no
value short years from now.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Realties are inching in

text:
In article <32dX3.8694$[email]>,
  "oceanblue" <[email]> wrote:

No, we should count on nobody to do us justice. There is a good proverb
that I read recently on SCL "all of your friends are false, all of your
enemies are true". However, applying my own morality, I must
reciprocate to those moral people who are or were genuinely caught in
the bad storm we call Zionism. These people were born into it. They did
not elect their biases; their biases were circumstantial - you and I
could have been one of them if we were born to a Zionist family and
they could have been one of us had they been born to an Arab family.
The presence of those is what warrants rethinking strategy, IMO. It is
a dilemma because the extremists count on the presence of those to hide
behind them; they are aware of the dilemma and they use it. But that is
irrelevant, IMO, because the objective is to achieve *justice* and to
do it by applying our own moral code - this differentiates us as
individuals, as human beings, and as believer in our message, if you
will, from the perpetrators of injustice. All this, however, without
allowing ourselves to fall into analysis paralysis and deviating from
the *real* issue which is, as you stated, a matter of RIGHT vs. WRONG.

I have never based my outlook on how desperate our situation is.
Situations change and circumstance change. We have examples of this in
our own history. I have absolutely no problem recognizing the Right &
Wrong you refer to. The point I'm making is that *even* if a biased
person (and we all are) sees the absolute Right & Wrong picture, they
would still be prisoners to their own realities. We are dealing with
people here not angels or story books. Very few people, if any at all,
will agree to commit suicide (there are many forms of suicide) because
they wake up to find themselves on the Wrong side. What they will try
to do instead is correct the wrong *without* sacrificing themselves. We
must recognise those and make allowance for calming down their fears
lest we want to give them the impression that we are indeed blood
thirsty savages who will stop at nothing but the demise of every last
Jew or Zionist in Israel - guilty or innocent. We must recognise when
our goals coincide with the goals of others and try to work out a
mutually agreeable circumstance. There is no need to insist on enmities
where we can make alliances; particularly when objectives coincide.
Even if you look at it as a short term arrangement it still makes good
sense. I'm not being an idealist here.

I'm concerned that discussing the above may take us into theology and
the history of religion. I don't mind and actually welcome it. I'm just
concerned this may not be the NG for it. We can take it up in private
email if you wish for it may get a little uncomfortable (not offensive
by any means). Or we can do it on SCS if you elect. I shy away from
discussing Islam with non-Muslims because it is often a bashing game
with them. But a constructive discussion I would very much welcome.

[ ... ]

Thabet, the issues you are bringing into the discussion go right into
the heart of the purpose of warfare in Islam, the essence of fiqh and
political-sociology! I couldn't possibly give an answer which I can
briefly qualify without being too vague or risk being misunderstood.

Let me briefly outline the following points:

1. The conquests were not the objective of the message, but the other
way around. I don't dispute "kutiba @alaykum al jihadu kama kutiba @ala
allathina min qabliqum ..." in the correct context and the liberation
of our lands is a correct one. Yet "wa 'a@iddu lahum ma astaTa@tum min
quwwatin ..." and "wa la tarmu bi anfusakum ila al tahlukah ..."

2. Fiqh is the science of interpreting the Kitab, the Sunnah,
precedence and the contemporary need of the community. Historically,
this has often reflected the will of the ruler; very few Scholars
shined for refusing to bend their moral. The unfortunate reality
resulted in wide fluctuation in the state and conditions of the
dhimmies over the ages.

3. Because of the divine nature often bestowed on *fiqh* (the judgement
of man by and large), applying it to the affairs of the nation can lead
to severe, often counter productive and bloody conflicts. I draw on the
examples of Khatami and his experience in Iran today.

4. The concept of dar e-ssalam and dar el-Harb is fuzzy when history is
applied to it. For instance, is Spain dar salam or dar Harb? Are
Muslims obliged to declare a Jihad to liberate Spain? Why? This is an
extreme example of course but extremes are useful for parallels.

[ ... ]

No *people* has even had a consistent history of being a menace because
it is their "nature". Often, groups or armies are executing the will of
their leaders. And often there are circumstances, cause and causality
involved. By and large, people, normal people, are innocent of the
crimes committed in their names historically. It is very important that
we make this distinction. It is very important that when we point a
finger we point it on *responsible* parties and focus the beam of the
blame lest we injure the innocent.

in their
of

The Sephardims are only recently starting to take a moderate stance.
There has been extremists among the European Jews but, the bulk of the
moderate Israeli left is made of non-Sephardims. I make reference to a
book by Mohammed Haykel entitled "Secret Channels" which covers the
history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Incidentally, the book concludes
that the Israelis and the Palestinians are only setting themselves up
for more conflict in the future because the peace agreements that are
taking place right now are not equitable.

equality
Palestine

There is no room for an apartheid state anywhere in the world today.
This is why I talked about "absolute equality (political and otherwise)"

[ ... ]

Thabet, I assure you I'm fully aware of the reactionary politics that
are being dictated by circumstance. I have always maintained that
circumstance is transient - any circumstance; that of weakness and that
of strength. The approach I would accept for myself is that dictated by
morality and sense of justice and would not change if we were in a
position of strength - without compromising our interests and the issue
at hand. In fact, the way I see it is this: had our actions,
historically as Muslims and more specifically as Sunni Muslims, been
*consistently* dictated by our sense of Justice and Morality instead of
our circumstance of *strength, we would have had a *very* different
attitude from the minorities in the Middle East.

We both agree that Israel is the least of our problems. We must tackle
the real beast within, our societies, to even start to move along the
path of progress and dignity. When you take care of the illness the
symptoms go away.

[ balance of points deleted for brievity ]

I don't have much to add to the excellent points you made beyond what I
have already indicated above except that I largely agree.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


subject: Re: Realties are inching in

text:
On Sun, 14 Nov 1999 23:11:12 GMT [email] wrote:
[...]

I am equally uncomfortable discussing theology as I happened
to view most religious matters as personal decisions and
wish not impose my thoughts on anyone.  I certainly did
not mean for the discussion to go that direction.

I think we agree on most major points anyway, but let me
try to sum up my views, not based on the mechanism of
responding to your excellent points, but rather based on
the generic strategic choices we have at the moment, IMO:

* The very fabric of our societies is damaged, and needs
fixing.  The fixing starts by concentrating on the individual's
welfare.  I think we are 100% in agreement on this one.
Nothing can work until the individual Arab and Muslim has
the basics of security, freedom of all kinds, and dignity.

* The welfare of the whole region and of Islam as a civilization
is fully dependent on the welfare of the individual Arab Muslim
(not the Iranian Muslim for instance).

* We should review our global strategy in the light of new
alliances with other Muslim countries, including Pakistan
and the former USSR republics.  I am sure Pakistan would
love an access to a front with Israel, and we can certainly
provide one.  It would be their answer to the Indian-Israeli
alliance.

* Last but not least: preserving Iraq as a country and as
a nation at any price.  We lost Palestine in the 20th.
century, and we stand to lose Iraq in the 21st. century.


author: Mike

subject: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
WESTERN SAHARA CAMPAIGN UK
Oxford Chambers
Oxford Place
Leeds LS1 3AX
tel/fax: 0113 245 4786 / 250 8353
e-mail: [email]

PRESS RELEASE
04/01/2001
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ATTN:

PARIS DAKAR RALLY LEADS TO WAR PLANS OVER WESTERN SAHARA

The Polisario Front, the liberation movement of Western Sahara, today
renewed  their threat  resume hostilities against Morocco if the 23rd
Paris-Dakar Rally enters Western Sahara on 7 January.

Morocco invaded Western Sahara in 1975, forcing the majority of the
Saharawi population to flee to refugee camps in Algeria.  A planned UN
referendum to determine the sovereignty of Western Sahara has been
repeatedly postponed since January 1992.
The Polisario Front stated that "it would be an insult to the Saharawi
people, a challenge to the UN and therefore a violation of the
cease-fire
in effect since September 1991".  The Saharawi Ministry of Information
pledged that they will resume hostilities the day the race crosses into
Western Sahara.    For the Polisario, the race is an attempt by the
Moroccan authorities to legitimise their occupation of Western Sahara.

A spokesperson for the Rally today reaffirmed their confidence in the
Moroccan security however outlined that the organisers had not
discounted
the possibility of re-routing the event.

Around 50 Spanish demonstrators disrupted the start of the third stage,
yesterday, while trying to distribute warnings to rally participants
about
the dangers of travelling through Western Sahara.

During the 1997 Rally, a participant was killed after driving over a
land-mine in Western Sahara, one of up to a million remaining from the
previous conflict.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION:
See http://www.arso.org   or Tel: 0113 245 4786


author: ""POLISARION\"@WITH .FISHING.NET"

subject: Re: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
Shove your messages-
Who needs a real state agent of polisario?

Mike wrote:

Toooooozzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeee

You campaign is history -
It's forgotten -Period-!


author: Rajelmouk

subject: Re: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
Mickey this is not  walt disney cartoon...
get the story right before starting to soil this ng with a lot of bull shit.
Morocco invading Western sahara what an Expression!!!!!
Was it western sahara at the time?
Or Spanish?
Sahrawi population to flee to refugee....
What a scenario!!!!!
Get your info right.
you are using a sheap way to diffuse your propaganda; at least put some
style in your editing man!!!
Make it sound logical and true.
No one is taking notice of the mercenary organisation anymore ...
The truth is that after we took back our land from the saniard all the
Moroccan from that part of the COuntry where happy to join the rest of the
community, we build a paradise out of send and we developed our southern
territories.
School,5 star hotels ....
Who' is supporting you nowadays?
It is understanding that your last option to attract the international
attention is to take the arms.
Well lets play! Then.

"Mike" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Boris Ryser

subject: Re: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
<POLISARION\ @WITH .FISHING.NET> a MENTI dans le message :
[email]...
Fin d'un complot.

comprendre: description d'un complot

parce qu'il croit en sa force, qu'il  >      sait modeste, ou en sa
victoire qu'il sait impossible, ou en un soutien extï¿½rieur qu'il
sait exclu.> >      Mais parce qu'il commence ï¿½ comprendre qu'il est
tombï¿½ dans l'oubli et que, dans un geste> >      dï¿½sespï¿½rï¿½, il tente
de rï¿½veiller un mort, en se rappelant au souvenir de ceux qui ont
pourtant
L'Algï¿½rie a jouï¿½ une carte qu'elle croyait bonne et qui s'est
rï¿½vï¿½lï¿½e inopï¿½rante. > >

rï¿½trocession du Sahara ï¿½ ses  lï¿½gitimes propriï¿½taires,

VOILï¿½!
Il est LA le problï¿½me et seulement LA ;" conclu entre l'Espagne et
le Maroc "
et l'autodï¿½termination des peuples  ??????
et un vote libre et vrai ,
le jour de la marche verte
ou en 1980
ou en 1991
quel en aurait ï¿½tï¿½ le rï¿½sultat?????????

et maintenant ....comment faire un vote rï¿½el...
aprï¿½s 30 ï¿½ 40 annï¿½es de tromperies
.....................................................ah....rchechasc
h!
aprï¿½s la construction par  l'armï¿½e marocaine de la pharaonique
forntiï¿½re,
aprï¿½s toutes ces annï¿½es de prï¿½sence policiï¿½re dans les villes
sahariennes,
aprï¿½s la constructiion des quartiers habitï¿½s par les 70 000
marocains dï¿½placï¿½s ou dï¿½portï¿½s d'aoï¿½t 91

comment organiser un vote d'audï¿½termination
quand le peuple rï¿½el a ï¿½tï¿½ rï¿½duit ï¿½ une minoritï¿½ d'autochtones...

et de plus,
qui veut m'expliquer cette phrase?
"l'Algï¿½rie a dï¿½placï¿½ des milliers de nos concityens et les a
sï¿½questrï¿½s ï¿½
  Tindouf, "

et je m'arrï¿½te lï¿½ car les mensonges que j'essaie de contrer ici
m'ecoeurent complï¿½tement ...
car en fait
le textes ci dessous
est du pur rï¿½visionisme ...du style le plus dangereux... celui des
textes menteurs qui finissent par devenir vï¿½ritï¿½ officielle...
Boris Ryser
en soutien ï¿½ http://www.arso.org

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

l'Algï¿½rie a dï¿½placï¿½ des milliers de nos concityens et les a
sï¿½questrï¿½s ï¿½
leur intï¿½gration ï¿½ notre pays et> >      entendaient ï¿½tre
indï¿½pendantes. Et grï¿½ce ï¿½ une propagande savamment orchestrï¿½e, elle
a rï¿½ussi> >      ï¿½ crï¿½er la confusion et l'amalgame, ï¿½ sortir de son
chapeau une rï¿½publique sur mesure, ï¿½ la faire
mï¿½me ï¿½ la faire admettre au sein de> >      l'O.U.A, grï¿½ce ï¿½ la
complicitï¿½ dumalhonnï¿½te Edem Ksodjo.
et la vï¿½ritï¿½ est en train de s'imposer.
compris qu'ils ont ï¿½tï¿½ trompï¿½s et se
reconnaissance ï¿½ la rï¿½publique fantoche.
dans un rï¿½fï¿½rendum oï¿½ les dï¿½s sont
et se sont opposï¿½s ï¿½ l'inscription sur
problï¿½me crï¿½ï¿½ par l'Algï¿½rie et sa volontï¿½
rien, si l'on excepte le complot
renoncent ï¿½ leur entï¿½tement
dï¿½sormais vouï¿½e ï¿½ l'ï¿½chec, ils ont
qu'ils allaient reprendre les armes.
Sans doute, y aura-t-il des morts de
qu'au jeu de massacre qu'ils
sacrifient.
rï¿½pondre ï¿½ toutes les provocations.
Ahmed Magid Benjelloun


subject: Re: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
Boris Ryser wrote many times
Boris Ryser
WESTERN SAHARA CAMPAIGN CH (switzerland)
and we also have a website
http://www.arso.org/
solidaritï¿½ un jour..........solidaritï¿½ toujours !

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

<POLISARION\ @WITH .FISHING.NET> a ï¿½crit dans le message :
[email]...


subject: Re: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
malgrï¿½ les craintes, pas d'incident...mais le presse parle
 et parle mï¿½me un peu trop

Abbas va encore faire des sauts en l'air...et il ne sera pas le
seul...
 lisez donc la dï¿½pï¿½che faite ce soir par le telejournal suisse....

TJ.CH -- Les forces marocaines sont toujours mobilisï¿½e pour protï¿½ger
le Paris-Dakar. La 7ï¿½me ï¿½tape s'est dï¿½roulï¿½e sans incident. Mais les
soldats doivent dï¿½fendre le rallye jusqu'ï¿½ la frontiï¿½re
mauritanienne, contre les menaces rï¿½pï¿½tï¿½es du Front Polisario de
reprendre les armes.      07.01.2001 17:03

L'armï¿½e marocaine est mobilisï¿½e pour protï¿½ger le rallye Paris-Dakar
jusqu'ï¿½ la frontiï¿½re mauritanienne contre les menaces rï¿½pï¿½tï¿½es du
Front Polisario de "reprendre les armes".

Le Front Polisario qui dispute au Maroc la souverainetï¿½ sur le
Sahara occidental a menacï¿½ de reprendre ses "activitï¿½s militaires"
dimanche, lors de la traversï¿½e par le rallye de la "frontiï¿½re
maroco-sahraouie".

Toutefois, l'ï¿½tape Goulimine-Smara (Sahara occidental), qui a eu
lieu dimanche sans incident, est considï¿½rï¿½e par les militaires
marocains comme totalement sï¿½re puisqu'elle se dï¿½roule en deï¿½ï¿½ du
mur de dï¿½fense ï¿½rigï¿½ dans les annï¿½es 80 pour empï¿½cher les incursions
des indï¿½pendantistes sahraouis.

Des fortifications militaires avaient ï¿½tï¿½ ï¿½ l'ï¿½poque bï¿½ties tous les
10 kilomï¿½tres et des champs de mines mis en place le long de ce mur
pour repousser d'ï¿½ventuelles attaques. L'ï¿½tape suivante du rallye,
programmï¿½e lundi, comporte un tronï¿½on entre Amgala (au sud de Smara)
et la frontiï¿½re mauritanienne, en dehors du mur de dï¿½fense. L'armï¿½e
marocaine, ajoutent les mï¿½mes sources, a renforcï¿½ sa surveillance
sur cette partie de l'itinï¿½raire du rallye.

La MINURSO (Mission des Nations Unies au Sahara occidental) avait
affirmï¿½ vendredi qu'elle avait renforcï¿½ la surveillance de la zone
traversï¿½e dimanche par le Paris-Dakar. A New York, l'ONU a soulignï¿½
dans un communiquï¿½ que toute reprise d'actions militaires serait
considï¿½rï¿½e comme une "violation
flagrante" du cessez-le-feu observï¿½ depuis 1991.

L'Algï¿½rie, principal soutien du Front Polisario, a affirmï¿½ vendredi
qu'elle n'ï¿½tait "aucunement concernï¿½e" par le rallye Paris-Dakar
tout en rappelant que les interlocuteurs du rallye "ne peuvent ï¿½tre
que les reprï¿½sentants du peuple sahraoui".

"Le Maroc a pris toutes les dispositions pour assurer la sï¿½curitï¿½
des participants au rallye Paris-Dakar sur son territoire", a
indiquï¿½ de son cï¿½tï¿½ le ministre marocain de la Culture et de la
Communication Mohamed Achaï¿½ri. Il a qualifiï¿½ les menaces du
Polisario de "gesticulations" destinï¿½es ï¿½ la propagande.

(et/oj avec les agences)

voilï¿½ c'ï¿½tait un peu d'info...diffusï¿½e par l'agence officielle de la
tv suisse.
jai' ï¿½crit il y a 2 jours..."aprï¿½s 30 ï¿½ 40 annï¿½es de tromperies
.....................................................ah....rchechasc
h!
aprï¿½s la construction par  l'armï¿½e marocaine de la pharaonique
frontiï¿½re, aprï¿½s toutes ces annï¿½es de prï¿½sence policiï¿½re dans les
villes
sahariennes, aprï¿½s la constructiion des quartiers habitï¿½s par les 70
000
marocains dï¿½placï¿½s ou dï¿½portï¿½s d'aoï¿½t 91
comment organiser un vote d'audï¿½termination
quand le peuple rï¿½el a ï¿½tï¿½ rï¿½duit ï¿½ une minoritï¿½ d'autochtones..."

IL y a donc bien preuve du mur dans le texte des infos de ce jour:
de plus il y a mï¿½me preuve de la prï¿½sence  impuissante des forces
l'ONU  ...depuis plus de 20 ans ..... ce que quasiment aucun
marocain sait:

considï¿½rï¿½e par les militaires marocains comme totalement sï¿½re
puisqu'elle se dï¿½roule en deï¿½ï¿½ du mur de dï¿½fense ï¿½rigï¿½ dans les
annï¿½es 80 pour empï¿½cher les incursions des indï¿½pendantistes
sahraouis.  Des fortifications militaires avaient ï¿½tï¿½ ï¿½ l'ï¿½poque
bï¿½ties tous les
10 kilomï¿½tres et des champs de mines mis en place le long de ce mur
pour repousser d'ï¿½ventuelles attaques. L'ï¿½tape suivante du rallye,
programmï¿½e lundi, comporte un tronï¿½on entre Amgala (au sud de Smara)
et la frontiï¿½re mauritanienne, en dehors du mur de dï¿½fense. L'armï¿½e
marocaine, ajoutent les mï¿½mes sources, a renforcï¿½ sa surveillance
sur cette partie de l'itinï¿½raire du rallye.La MINURSO (Mission des
Nations Unies au Sahara occidental) avait affirmï¿½ vendredi qu'elle
avait renforcï¿½ la surveillance de la zone traversï¿½e dimanche par le
Paris-Dakar."

voilï¿½ pour le moment sans autre commentaire
c'ï¿½taient quelques lignes qui contredisent les vï¿½ritï¿½s des journaux
dits officiels
avec leurs textes pur rï¿½visionnistes ...du style le plus
dangereux... celui des
textes menteurs qui finissent par devenir vï¿½ritï¿½ officielle...pour
tout un peuple...
Boris Ryser
en soutien ï¿½ http://www.arso.org
Boris Ryser

Boris Ryser <[email]> a ï¿½crit dans le message :
935109$l2q$[email]...
Non
sa
est
tente
la
.....................................................ah....rchechasc
elle
son
et
pas
refus
et
est
donnï¿½.
comprendre
10.940


subject: Re: POLISARIO - troll!

text:
et encore pour ï¿½clairï¿½ un peu ceux qui ne pensent que grï¿½ce ï¿½ l'info
diffusï¿½e par lesmedias officiels du pays
un peu de vision HISTORIQUE du problï¿½me: le  grain de sable sahraoui
Par Stephen SMITH Le 08/12/97

c'est extrait des archives de "www.LIBERATION.fr"
  Khadija Mohsen-Finan: ï¿½Sahara occidental. Les enjeux d'un conflit
rï¿½gionalï¿½. CNRS Editions, 1997, 160 F.

Il y a des livres qui proposent aux lecteurs un marchï¿½ honnï¿½te :
faire le point, sans parti pris ni complaisance, sur un problï¿½me
dont on a souvent entendu parler mais dont, au juste, on ne sait
rien. Si c'est rï¿½ussi, en plus, avec une concision qui ne fait pas
payer l'effort de l'auteur en imposant un pensum, c'est parfait. En
ce sens, fruit d'une thï¿½se trois fois plus volumineuse, les 200
pages de Khadija Mohsen-Finan sur le Sahara occidental sont une
offre ï¿½ saisir pour comprendre l'interminable conflit rï¿½gional.
Celui-ci persiste, comme elle le note joliment, ï¿½avec l'endurance
d'un homme du dï¿½sertï¿½. L'ex-colonie espagnole, annexï¿½e en 1975 par
le Maroc et la Mauritanie, revendiquï¿½e au nom du peuple sahraoui et
avec l'aide de l'Algï¿½rie par le Front Polisario les armes ï¿½ la main,
abandonnï¿½e de guerre lasse par la Mauritanie en 1979 et, enfin,
entourï¿½e de ï¿½ murs ï¿½ de dï¿½fense _ des remblais de sable hï¿½rissï¿½s
d'ï¿½lectronique de surveillance _ par le Maroc entre 1981 et 1987,
demeure LA pomme de discorde maghrï¿½bine. Bien qu'ï¿½moussï¿½e par
l'enlisement, cette hache de guerre n'est toujours pas enterrï¿½e.
Mais l'actualitï¿½ nourrit quelque espoir de rï¿½glement : aux
lendemains des accords de Houston, qui prï¿½parent _ en principe pour
le 7 dï¿½cembre 1998 _ la tenue d'un rï¿½fï¿½rendum d'autodï¿½termination,
ï¿½la derniï¿½re lutte de dï¿½colonisation sur le continent africainï¿½
pourrait s'achever autrement que par l'ï¿½puisement gï¿½nï¿½ral.
Dans le terrain minï¿½ du Sahara occidental, l'auteur avance en s'en
tenant ï¿½ l'intelligence des faits. L'enjeu est un territoire grand
comme la moitiï¿½ de la France, certes dï¿½sertique mais recï¿½lant des
richesses _ phosphates, fer, manganï¿½se, cuivre, titane _ et
disposant d'une grande faï¿½ade maritime, l'une des plus poissonneuses
du monde. Si, pour l'Algï¿½rie, la revendication de cette terre, par
Front Polisario interposï¿½, a d'abord servi ï¿½ l'affirmation de son
hï¿½gï¿½monie rï¿½gionale, le ï¿½ dossier du Sahara ï¿½ est devenu ensuite, de
plus en plus, un objet de rivalitï¿½s internes, un moyen pour Chadli
Benjedid de ï¿½se dï¿½faire de l'hï¿½ritage de Boumedieneï¿½, un des griefs
retenus par l'armï¿½e algï¿½rienne contre Mohamed Boudiaf, exilï¿½ pendant
vingt-neuf ans au Maroc avant d'accï¿½der ï¿½ la prï¿½sidence. De mï¿½me,
ï¿½pour le Maroc qui connaissait de grandes difficultï¿½s intï¿½rieures
(ï¿½meutes, grï¿½ves ouvriï¿½res et estudiantines, coups d'Etat perpï¿½trï¿½s
contre la personne du roi), la "rï¿½unification" du royaume paraissait
tout autant un dï¿½rivatif politique et une occasion de faire l'union
sacrï¿½e autour de la monarchie, de satisfaire le nationalisme
politique marocain en pratiquant une politique de dï¿½fi aussi bien
vis-ï¿½-vis de l'Espagne, de l'Algï¿½rie, que des Nations unies, tout en
assignant aux Forces armï¿½es royales (FAR) d'autres tï¿½ches qu'une
ï¿½ventuelle prise du pouvoirï¿½.
Un tel noeud gordien peut-il ï¿½tre tranchï¿½ par une question
rï¿½fï¿½rendaire, un oui ou un non ï¿½ l'intï¿½gration au Maroc ou ï¿½
l'indï¿½pendance ? Le problï¿½me ï¿½tant de facto rï¿½glï¿½, vu l'emprise
marocaine sur le ï¿½Sahara utileï¿½, l'auteur suggï¿½re, en filigrane,
qu'un rï¿½glement politique devra se nï¿½gocier ï¿½ l'occasion du
rï¿½fï¿½rendum, dï¿½s lors moins ï¿½chï¿½ance dï¿½cisive que procï¿½dure
d'entï¿½rinement.

Boris Ryser <[email]> a ï¿½crit dans le message :
93ahu6$4k1$[email]...


author: Otis Willie

text:
Filipinos Seek Withdrawal of U.S. Troops

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HONG_KONG_FILIPINO_PROTEST?SITE=UTSAL

{EXCERPT} HONG KONG (AP) -- Dozens of Filipino domestic workers
marched on the U.S. Consulate in Hong Kong Sunday to demand the
withdrawal of American troops from the Philippines.

The protest was timed to coincide with not only the Fourth of July,
but also Filipino-American Friendship Day.

About 100 people chanted anti-American slogans outside the consulate
and staged a skit depicting President Bush holding Philippine
President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo on a dog leash, said Eman
Villanueva, who helped organize the event.

Police estimated the crowd at about 60.

Two years ago, the U.S. military started arming and training Filipino
soldiers battling Muslim extremists in the southern Philippines.

Villanueva said the United States used terrorism as an excuse to send
troops into the Philippines to...

	U.S. and friendly nation laws prohibit fully
	reproducing copyrighted material. In abidance
	with our laws this report cannot be provided in
	its entirety. However, you can read it in full
	today at the supplied URL. The subject/content of
	this report is not necessarily the viewpoint of
	the distributing Library. This report is provided
	for your information and discussion.

---------------------------
   Otis Willie
   Associate Librarian
   The American War Library
   http://www.americanwarlibrary.com


author: kurakot

subject: Re: Filipinos Seek Withdrawal of U.S. Troops

text:
"Otis Willie" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HONG_KONG_FILIPINO_PROTEST?SITE=UTSAL

====

PHILMIITARY INTEL assessment of MIGRANTE INTL is correct.  The association
is a communist front

k


author: H. David Pembrook

text:
When the fucking Communist Chinese finally get fed up with theses foreigners
working on their soil we'll see how much marching they do.

~~~~~
"When a true genius appears in the world,
you may know him by this sign, that the dunces
are all in confederacy against him."

- Jonathan Swift


author: Renowl

text: to each his own i have no problem with protesting .  free country.


text:
Since when is Communist China a "free country?"

~~~~~
"When a true genius appears in the world,
you may know him by this sign, that the dunces
are all in confederacy against him."

- Jonathan Swift


text:
"Renowl" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

=

me too but i think the twelve domstic workers were being MISUSED
by the communist

OUR ENEMY IS THE ARROYOS, THE PIDALS - not the US
George Bush is doing a lot good things in Mindanao.....building schools,
roads
and hospitals all the help of the locals

k


text:
since the chinese decided that making   money thru  semi  capitalism  not
ideology is king


text:
did you hear the news that angelo reyes  is now in favor of legalizing
huweteng?   how about the stand of the priests that  charter change is not
needed  but  rather a change of  heart.  jesus christ. pakialamero talaga


text:
"Renowl" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

===

yah man....nakakasakit ng ulo ang mga leaders natin sa pinas.  whatever is
the flavour
of the month

angelo reyes is a protector of rp's organized crime based in vegas and costa
rica
almost ALL the bars and sportbooks in QC, MAKATI and MANILA are owned
directly and indirectly by them.....some even accused him of being behind
the recruitment
of kidnappers from ilo ilo and cebu

all this issues about legalization of jueteng is another ploy to distract
the masses from
the real issues -  debt, deficit, unemployment and inflation


text:
as i said before politics  there is like wwf.  buti pa ang wwf at the end of
the day reality  sets in and things return to normal , in the pinas its 24 7
moromoro. kaya magulo

btw i didnt see your reyes source


text:
"Renowl" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
of
7

===

go to VEGAS
rp organized crime is there.... biz-pol-militray ties ups

lately attendees incl gen dapit, gov sanchez of laguna, lucio tan
and quite often - PL

K

k


author: J Grant

subject: Another question

text:
I finally got my petition turned in, and I noticed that on the petition,
they asked for my social security number. Is a credit check performed on
a potential candidate as a prequisite to membership? If so, I have yet
another question! Heres the story: I was married for about 7 years.
During this time, my ex-wife got credit cards in my name without my
knowledge, and I was completely unaware until after she left, and I was
receiving bills for cards I had no idea I had. They were all in various
stages of "past due".  I managed to get them paid off and cancelled,
though by this time I'm pretty sure my credit was ruined.  Can this be a
possible impediment to my becoming a member?  Sorry about the life
story, but I had to ask, and this group is by far the best forum I have
found to ask questions in.
Sincerely and (hopefully!) fraternally,
Jeff
(Who hopes to soon be a member of Lodge 413, F& AM!)


author: Brian K.Lingard

subject: Re: Another question

text:
Ottawa Canada

Here in Ontario, Canada, I believe being an undischarged bankrupt is
grounds for rejection of a petition for membership.

So while a credit check may be performed, it is probably mainly to
determine that you are not an undischarged bankrupt.

If you paid off all the credit cards even though they were past due, your
credit worthiness is not toast.

At least you did not just go bankrupt and stiff the creditors.  Mind you
at one point I worked for a man who managed to go bankrupt annually and
one year outdid himself with two bankruptcies in one calendar year!

Brian

The Builders #177 G.L. of Canada in the Province of Ontario

J Grant
([email]) writes:


author: Mudge

subject: Re: Another question

text:
On 10/21/2004 20:24:33 [email] (J Grant) wrote:

In our jurisdiction (Alberta) it depends on the Investigating committee -
years ago we used to do Police checks as well as credit checks - but with
Canader's "Privacy laws" these days we can't go that far - but we will
check froends and associates for character references.

Not in my book !

BES (PDDGM, #87 GRA)


author: Alex

subject: Re: Another question

text:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:24, J Grant wrote:

I'm not on the US, but my guess is that this would be more to check that you are
either a US citizen, or entitled to residence, since in most jurisdictions
(from what I've read) you do need to be a citizen of that country (or to have
lived there for a certain period first). Just a guess on my part, though...
- --
Alex Fisher MM
Lodge Caledonian No. 14
United Grand Lodge of Queensland
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBeJhAg9r2P0pNOk8RAvMzAKDF3l4BvKiWicgPtbxpUPH9rN2KFACeNLfp
TTJiFhHAGbLXRAhp59jnmj4=
=f7WI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


author: Jack Wise

subject: Re: Another question

text:
J Grant wrote:

While it may not play a part in the decision process, I would suggest
that you contact your recommenders and/or the lodge secretary and offer
to provide the investigation committee an explanation of the
circumstances.  If you are forthright and open about the situation, it
will  count in your favor.  If it is "discovered" by the investigation
process, it may look as though you were trying to hide the facts of the
situation.


author: Jim Bennie

subject: Re: Another question

text:
In <[email]>, [email] (J
Grant) wrote:

Not here. Nor do we ask for Social Insurance numbers. We have the same
kind of forms we've had since 1906 (precribed by Grand Lodge even
before then). There isn't even room for a phone number!

Hey, Tom, *there's* another topic of discussion after lodge meetings!

Jim Bennie
Nos. 44 & 100, Vancouver


author: Richard White

subject: Re: Another question

text:
"J Grant" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I fail to see what possible relevance a social security number (iirc equivalent to the UK's NI
number) could be to a lodge.

Not that I am aware of - but then in the UK the proposer and seconder actually *know* the applicant,
and so the need for more invasive enquiries is unnecessary.

Why on earth did you pay cards which you allege were fraudulently and criminally registered in your
name?  Were these alleged offenced reported to the police?

Back to Freemasonry:  you state that you settled these bills (although you had no need to).  That
they are settled is sufficient.   Masonry seeks candidats who are of good repute, and even such
persons can get into debt occasionally.  More to the point here, you (I assume) don't have financial
problems at the moment, which means you are unlikely to become a case for Masonic Charity the moment
you join.

This will depend on the rules of the Grand Lodge and the thoughts of the members of the private
Lodge you are seeking to join.

S & F regards,

Richard White
WM Addington Lodge No. 5080
PM Old Olavians Lodge No. 5758

Opinions & Facts/Information expressed in my posts, except where otherwise stated, are my own
personal opinions & understanding of facts/information respectively:  they are not those of, and
should not be considered associated with, any of the masonic Orders of which I am a member.


author: JB

subject: Re: Another question

text:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Brian K.Lingard" <[email]> wrote in message
news:cl9v00$l2a$[email]...

Gosh that sounds a bit over the top to me.  In England, such a
practice would be illegal, I'm sure.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBQXmCXvpxh1uHmCDzEQKCMgCffVgKbSTi0K+HQin49CKQmzyyoGUAni9x
Yx7vr4gOSUQfYq+g3P5XVea8
=qTS2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


author: Perplexed Seal

subject: Re: Another question

text:
"JB" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

It would be in breach of the data protection act, for a start.

Regards

Alistair
PM UGLE


author: Dan

text:
Wake up, Christians, or lose the Holy Land

By Stuart Littlewood

26 March 2009

Stuart Littlewood explains why the thought of leaving the Church had
crossed his mind: ï¿½ itï¿½s the realization that Western Christendom
doesnï¿½t really give a damn about the Holy Land and its people, and
couldn't care less that it is being stolen by Zionists who are unwilling
to live there in harmony with other faithsï¿½.

A British man recently applied to the Church of England to have his
baptism into the Christian faith cancelled. Five months, he argued, was
too young to decide his religious fate. Now 56, he's against the
indoctrination of children in any religion.

In Spain, I read that the mayor of El Borge has written to the local
bishop asking for his baptism to be deleted and his name removed from
Church records. He too considers baptism to be a dubious practice
because of the age at which it is carried out. Other Spaniards are
reported to want out of the Christian faith.

Logging off from the Church has crossed my mind also, but for different
reasons. For me itï¿½s the realization that Western Christendom doesnï¿½t
really give a damn about the Holy Land and its people, and couldn't care
less that it is being stolen by Zionists who are unwilling to live there
in harmony with other faiths. These violent intruders want the entire
place for themselves ï¿½ exclusively ï¿½ and they are willing to murder,
pillage, destroy, ethnically cleanse, and stoop to all manner of inhuman
crimes to snatch it, in the name of worldwide Jewry.

Most people in the West, including Christians in their leafy suburbs,
turn a blind eye. They are possibly ignorant, but more likely they are
misinformed by those who have a twisted view of the scriptures and now
swell the ranks of Zionist sympathizers while still posing as devout
Christians. The hang out in groups like Christian Friends of Israel and
Anglican Friends of Israel, which are part of the wider Friends of
Israel network that has its stooges embedded at all levels in our
political, business, religious and social fabric.

The Holy Land is at the very centre of the Christian Churchï¿½s teachings.
It is Christianityï¿½s raison dï¿½ï¿½tre. The Catholic Church at least keeps a
considerable presence there, serving Christian and Muslim alike, and
resists as best it can Israelï¿½s continual encroachments on its freedom.
The dozen or so patriarchs and heads of Christian churches in Jerusalem
also speak out strongly from time to time.

But few people in the West seem to realize how seriously Israel's
notorious ï¿½administrativeï¿½ controls disrupt the life and work of the
Church. How many are aware that no Muslim or Palestinian Christian
living outside Jerusalem is allowed to visit the holy places in the Old
City? This goes for priests, too, although the Israeli military may,
when it suits their mood, grant permits restricted to certain entry
points and limiting the duration of stay. These bully-boy tactics make
pastoral work a nightmare and participation at major religious occasions
well-nigh impossible.

The freedom of the Church was set out in the Fundamental Agreement
between the Holy See and the State of Israel in 1993 (but never ratified
by the Knesset, I'm told). Buried deep within this document is the clause:

     The State of Israel recognizes the right of the Catholic Church to
carry out its religious, moral, educational and charitable functions,
and to have its own institutions, and to train, appoint and deploy its
own personnel in the said institutions or for the said functions to
these ends.

It turns out to be another worthless promise from a regime that ignores
countless UN resolutions, disregards International Court of Justice
rulings, is contemptuous of human rights and Geneva Conventions, yet
claims to be a Western-style liberal democracy sharing our values.

Last week the Israeli authorities deployed police reinforcements to
prevent the Palestinians from holding cultural events in East Jerusalem
to mark the city's designation as the 2009 "capital of Arab culture".
East Jerusalem, as everyone knows, is officially Palestinian territory
and includes the Old City. Palestinians naturally regard it as the
capital of their future state; but the Israelis ï¿½ unlawfully ï¿½ claim it
is their "eternal and undivided capital". They intend to make their
cruel grip on it permanent.

Criticize Israel in the US and you'll lose your job. Criticize Israel in
the UK and the Jewish establishment and their quasi-Christian friends
hurl accusations of anti-Semitism. Dare to support the victims of
Israeli aggression and you'll get banned by the freaky Canadian
government and vilified, like George Galloway.

The Israelis' game is clearly to hinder and paralyse Christianity in the
Holy Land. It is a process that has been going on for a very long time.
When Palestine was under British mandate, Christians accounted for 20
per cent of the population. Sixty-one years of hostilities,
dispossession, interference and economic ruination have whittled their
numbers down to less than 2 per cent. At this rate there will soon be no
Christians left in the land where Christianity was born.

And what is the head of our Anglican Church doing? Last November, while
Israel was meticulously planning its blitzkrieg against Gaza's civilians
(including the Christian community) and their democratically-elected
government, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, joined the
Chief Rabbi, Sir Jonathan Sacks, in a visit to the former Nazi camps of
Auschwitz-Birkenau in Poland to demonstrate their joint solidarity
against the extremes of hostility and genocide.

"This is a pilgrimage not to a holy place but to a place of utter
profanity ï¿½ a place where the name of God was profaned because the image
of God in human beings was abused and disfigured," said the Archbishop.
"How shall we be able to read the signs of the times, the indications
that evil is gathering force once again and societies are slipping
towards the same collective corruption and moral sickness that made the
Shoah [Holocaust] possible?ï¿½

The signs are plainly there to see, Dr Williams. Evil has indeed
gathered its forces again and, as you surely noticed, certain societies
have already slipped into the moral cesspit. Look no further than the
hell-hole that the Holy Land has been turned into by the Israeli occupation.

So when can we expect a pilgrimage by the Archbishop and the Chief Rabbi
to sniff the stench of profanity in the Gaza Strip? And what do they
have to say about the relentless theft and judaization of Jerusalem, I
wonder?

Back in the days of the Crusades the Archbishops of Canterbury included
Christian men of action like Baldwin and Hubert Walter, who donned
armour and took up their sword to fight the good fight (as they saw it)
for their belief in the Holy City and what it stood for. Times are
different now, but unless the Western Church shows firmer leadership and
more grit it will lose the Holy Land and more of its followers will
renounce their baptism.
Stuart Littlewood is author of the book Radio Free Palestine, which
tells the plight of the Palestinians under occupation. For further
information please visit www.radiofreepalestine.co.uk.


author: Ariadne

subject: Re: Wake up, Christians, or lose the Holy Land

text:
On 25 Mar, 18:47, Dan <[email]> wrote:

It's almost too late for that.  The Muslims
have decimated them x 9


author: count 2

text:
Religion should be banned until you are 18 - then you have the mind to
decide what to be.


author: brian lamb

subject:
The falling - down drunken Slav The Rev'd slobbers, " It was all a
 big joke."! Hmmmmm, like you?

text:
Go open another bottle of home - made, rotgut vodka & drink yourself
blind!

What a loser!


author: aburmese

subject: ne win went to hell, so happy

text:
Very delicious news, it is true or not.
Nga Ne Win, the most cruel and brutal public killer, stepfather of SPDC had to go to the hell on 2nd October 2001.
For now, that dog must be in the hot oil-pot.
We should held happy ceremony for that.


author: Burma

subject: Re: ne win went to hell, so happy

text:
If this true, I am not happy because of we can't punish him for his
guilty.

aburmese wrote:


subject: Re: ne win went to hell, so happy

text:
Sad!  The dog ne win is still alive suffering god punishment.
He has to suffer heart attack excruciatingly 99 times before he go to hell.
It is kind of good.
9999 hell servents are waiting for that dog in the 9 story of hell.

  "aburmese" <[email]> wrote in message news:wswu7.16073$[email]...

  Very delicious news, it is true or not.
  Nga Ne Win, the most cruel and brutal public killer, stepfather of SPDC had to go to the hell on 2nd October 2001.
  For now, that dog must be in the hot oil-pot.
  We should held happy ceremony for that.


author: CENTRO ANTICOMUNISTA

subject: LAS MENTIRAS DE LOS MANIPULADORES MAFIOSOS KASSTRO Y CHAVEZ.

text:
Aislamiento

Lo que narramos a continuación apareció en la prensa de los años 60 ó 70. Según las noticias periodísticas –apareció en diferentes diarios–, los hechos son reales... sucedieron... nada es inventado.

1.
Un científico soviético visitó el Reino Unido. En un recorrido por un automercado –guiado por su par británico– se admiró de la cantidad de bienes de consumo que había en los estantes. Después de enterarse de que el local no era para clases privilegiadas, sino que ahí compraba todo el que tuviera dinero incluyendo empleados y obreros, pidió prestada una cámara de 8mm y filmó un rollo.
De regreso en Rusia, le mostró la película a su esposa. Ésta exclamo al verla: “¡Nos han engañado!”. (La propaganda oficial rusa hablaba de carestía y racionamiento endémicos en los países capitalistas.)

2.
En un intercambio cultural, un jefe policial soviético visitó Detroit. Su homónimo americano lo llevó a presenciar un juego del deporte nacional. Cuando llegaron al estadio de beisbol, el ruso preguntó:

—¿De quiénes son todos esos automóviles?

ESTACIONADOS A CADA LADO DE LA CALLE  Y A TODO LO LARGO DE LA CALLE DE VARIOS  KILOMETROS...EN UN BARRIO OBRERO...

—De diferentes personas: comerciantes, pequeños industriales, estudiantes, obreros, empleados... —le respondió el americano.
—¡Vamos, no me engañas!... Tú mandaste a poner todos esos carros ahí para impresionarme —exclamó el ruso.

El norteamericano no pudo convencerlo, pero aprendió algo: ¡Entendió el poder que tenía un jefe de policía de la Unión Soviética!.

¿Les suena a relatos  e historias  del Reader’s Digest?
Quizás... pero algo es seguro: los estantes de las bodegas de Cuba parecen producto de la vieja propaganda rusa.

Simón Anduze
Guatire, viernes 16 de diciembre de 2005.


author: pariguayo

subject: Re: LAS MENTIRAS DE LOS MANIPULADORES MAFIOSOS KASSTRO Y CHAVEZ.

text:
en la mayor parte de latinoamerica entre el 25% y 40% de las personas
viven con un (1) dolar diario.... los supermercado los ven de lejos y
tener un auto es solo un sueño para ellos.


author: MeerKat

subject: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
Great rugby match on the weekend mate.

Always good to see the POMs loose to the French

Chokers !!!!!!!!!!!!


author: Mike Norman

subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
Who gives a fuck, it's a silly game.

Toodle Pip

"MeerKat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:42106853$0$1022$[email]...


author: Takin Gthepiss

subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Mike Norman" <[email]> wrote in message
$[email]...

**Yep, it sure is..... ESPECIALLY when we lose to the French!!!    ;-)

If ONLY the score had been the other way round.....   *sigh*

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


author: Daniel

subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Mike Norman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4210938a$0$16577$[email]...

Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed.
Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and
all of their hopes and dreams.  If I didn't drink this beer, they might be
out of work and their dreams would be shattered.
Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their
dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
Jack Handy


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
Yeah Im sure it is just a game when you loose CHOKERS.

However it doesnt stop you crapping on about England when they win.

Your a classic flip-flopper.

And another thing Prince Charles can go get fucked and not bother coming
down here for a royal visit at Aussie taxpayers expense.

I live for the day we become a republic and we can get rid of the bloody pom
union jack off our flag, and get that bitch queen lizzy's picture of our
coins.

Cheers

MeerKat
"Mike Norman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4210938a$0$16577$[email]...


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Takin Gthepiss" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4210a7e3$1_1@127.0.0.1...

The French loosed to the Brits quite a number of times.
Sport is NOT an item to be used by anyone here around trying to make a point
to anyone.
Whe got you today.
You will get us tomorrow.
So what?

Let's admit it now:
France and the UK have been the most glorious Europeans civilisations for a
while.
Not the case anymore.
Better join hands within Europe that keeping on arguing with no end.

Cheers, my rosbeef friends, cheers
Daniel
Still a bloody frog but however a European citizen


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Daniel" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Well "Jack Handy" is a pro, in your case, your score is -66.

Oh and BTW is that the new  "wet shoe look" or have you just pissed on
them!!

Toodle Pip


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"MeerKat the Prat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4211cff2$0$1025$[email]...

I don't think he would consider pissing on you fucking shithole, let alone
visiting it.

So do I, we've had enough of your second rate shit sinse you were fucked of
out of it all those years back

BTW I like your name "MeerPrat." suits you, keep living up to it!!

Toodle Pip


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"MeerKat" <[email]> wrote in message

snip

**If there's one thing that I loathe more than a spammer, it's the so called
royal family. Leeches, every one of them. You'll probably get your wish for
a republic before we do, you lucky *uggers!

A couples of days ago when the 'news' broke <BIG YAWN> one of the UK rags
had a picture of Chas and his old horse Camilla on the front page with the
story of the engagement and the headline "What would Diana Say?"

What would Diana say? Well they could always dig her up and ask her...   :-)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Daniel" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

It's one thing talking about Rugby but talking about Europe is another, and
as I have said before, if and when, it comes to a "Fererendum", then I feel
sure the British people will sling it out in no uncertain terms.

So Danny Fanny your dreams of the UK joining the European shambles is a bit
far fetched.

Toodle Pip


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
http://smh.com.au/news/National/Prince-Charles-to-visit-Australias/2005/02/03/1107409974659.html

Get a life and keep up todate wanker. Yes he plans a visit unfortunatley. He
invited himself. Thankfully Camilla wont be coming.

Go fuck yourself Mike

Cheers

MeerKat
"Mike Norman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4211d5f0$0$19163$[email]...


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
**If there's one thing that I loathe more than a spammer, it's the so called

Dont get me wrong.

I am not anti-british have been up there numerous times. Do like a shit-stir
though.

However in Australias case I believe the British Monarchy holds no relevance
at all. We have moved on and are not some British colonial outpost. An
Australian citizen should be able to aspire to being head of state. At the
moment a foreign monarch holds that role. Additionally UK/OZ relationship
has changed. The UK is more Euro focused whilst Australia is Asia-Pacific
focused. Also it seems we are aspiring to be the 51st state of the US or
maybe 52nd behind the UK. (sarcasm). The free trade agreement signed with
the yanks is dragging us down that path not to mention John Howards got his
head up Bush's arse so far he can brush Bush's  teeth.

My 10 baht's worths for the day.

Cheers

MeerKat

Flame away :)
"Takin Gthepiss" <[email]> wrote in message
news:42127d95$1_1@127.0.0.1...


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Mike Norman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4210bf06$0$16583$[email]...
and
feel
bit

I am afraid it is more than "a bit far" but I think that it will come, wheel
of history goes one way.
As all the European countries, the UK cannot stand alone those days, so you
have 2 choices: Eurozone and full European integration or becoming the 51st
US state :-)

Now, concerning "shambles", I would call that birth trauma. Ask your Mum,
she will explain that better than me.


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"MeerKat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4211de8f$0$11122$[email]...
 He invited himself. Thankfully Camilla wont be coming.

Well that I do agree with, and I'll tell you what, he's not the flavour of
the month either.

My sympathies

Toodle Pip


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"MeerKat" <[email]> wrote in message

**5555555 Same same....   ;-)

**Couldn't agree more! And my best wishes to those of you that would like
your country to become a republic.

I would also argue that the monarchy holds no relevance to the average man
in the street here. The main qualifications to be a monarch are to have been
born with a silver spoon up your arse, and to expect your 'subjects' to bow
and scrape in your presence. Apparently the monarchy has the 'support' of
two-thirds of the English people here. Doesn't say much for us, does it?
Well not for those two-thirds anyway!

Fortunately for me, I am (proudly) in the one-third minority. Like I said, I
loathe the royal family.

**Blair also likes sticking his head up Bush's arse. It's a good job that
Bush has a big arse...

**Another time maybe....  ;-)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Danny Fanny" <[email]> wrote in message

As usual, your full of shit, typical reaction from a fucked up never come
down french cunt, like you.
As usual you are spouting shit "I know all the answers" "I am Danny Fanny
"that knows everything. You obviously don't know what a great big know fuck
all, fucking cunt you are!!!

When it comes to shambles you stupid "Bloodclot" I should blame your Mother
for that.

Nobody wants France, the Germans don't. the Italians don't, and everybody
else don't, because everything you country is involved in turns to
shit.(Like trying to sell a neuclear weapons making plant to Iraq)

Toodle Pip


subject: Re: For Mike katoey Norman

text:
"Mike Norman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4211d2a5$0$19159$[email]...

Q: What is the difference between an old car tyre and a pile of 365 used
condoms?

A: None, in both cases it was a Good Year.


author: Miha Peternel

subject: Re: A different story about the war in Yugoslavia (updated)

text:
Amir.M ([email]) wrote:
:>  I was serving in the JNA in Slovenia  in 1989-1990.
:>  Though I missed the outbreak of hostilities a year later I had some first
:>  hand accounts on the carnage that followed.
:>  My  impression is  that the Slovenes were in fact the first nation in the
:>  former Yug. that  drew First Blood in the war.

Well, that's your impression, what about the proof?

:>  The most opened minded of the republics was the first one to have acted
:>  upon it's  secessionist  dreams  with the silent approval of the
:>  playmakers  from Belgrade who were out to discredit the JNA.( Death of a
:>  Nation. BBC 1995)

Death of a Nation was labeled as non-objective by many reviewers.
What silent approval do you mean? Silent war ?

:>  Many  young grunts  ware caught up in a  vague armed conflict and were
:>  practicly slaughtered without mercy without firing a bullet in defence as
:>  they vere not issued with live ammunition.
:>  Film footage of this speaks out for itself just as strong as the footage
:>  numerous acts of violence that followed all over Yug.and which
:>  subsequently drew more attention.

I'd really like to see this film. Does it exist ?

:>  To all of us then, who were Yugoslavs in the first place   this was truly
:>  a shocking act of irredentism.

It would not happen did the JNA not decide to attack.

:>  I remember that this behaviour by the Slovenes was met with disgust by the
:>  populace  of the nation, so much so that numerous  Yug. economic
:>  affiliates i.e. companies who did business with the Slovenes immediately
:>  cut off all relationships and contacts with them.

Can you imagine the disgust of the people attacked by JNA ?

:>  The  Bosnians ware the first to have  done so when pictures of their
:>  practically defenceless youths with bullets holes  in their temples
:>  flashed  across their TV screens.
:>  They were afraid that this was a taste of things to come and the were
:>  right.

It was. Had they open their eyes before and do something, they wouldn't
have to suffer the "protection" of JNA a few months later.

:>  The ineffective response of the JNA was puzzling  as then  everyone had
:>  expected a swift countermeasure which would bring the radical Slovenes to
:>  heel and restore national security.

Security of what nation ? Serb ?

:>  A cynical agreement between Belgrade and Ljubljana ensured that a break up
:>  of a country had begun and the rest is history.

I don't think you can explain the history with agreements. It just doesn't
work that way.

Miha


author: sorites

subject: New demerit system for drivers

text:
Hmmm, don't know how accurate this might be, but.........

Subject: New Demerit System for Drivers

The new "Demerit" system becomes active September 2003. It will be good
to familiarise yourself with it - so is does not catch up with you when
it becomes active. This system will be applied country wide! Demerit
points will be allocated infringements/ traffic offences. Penalty units
will determine the amount of the fine.

DEMERIT POINTS:
Each person has 0 points at the start of the system.
Each person can build up to 12 points
Every point exceeding 12 points = Suspension of licence!
Points reduce at 1 point every 3 "infringement free" months. Should your
licence be suspended 3 times, the licence will be CANCELLED.

If the vehicle belongs to a Juristic person (e.g.bank, FML company
etc)the Juristic person will not be given any demerit points, but the
PENALTY units will be X3!

PENALTY UNITS:
Motor vehicle not registered - Infringement - 10 penalty units R500.00)
plus 2 demerit points.

Driver does not have his licence in the vehicle - Infringement - 10
penalty units (R500.00) plus 2 demerit points.

No Seatbelt - Infringement - 5 penalty units (R250.00) plus 1 demerit
point.

Not stopping at a stop sign - Infringement - 15 penalty units
(R750.00)plus 3 demerit points

Overloading by 25% - Infringement - 25 penalty units (R1250.00) plus 3
demerit points

Rear Lamps not working - Infringement - 10 penalty units (R500.00) plus
2 demerit points

SPEED:
Up to 20% over the speed limit - R250.00 - No demerit points.(e.g. 60kph
limit, travelling up to 72kph or 120 kph limit - travelling up to
144kph.)

21-30% over the speed limit - R500.00 - 1 demerit point. (e.g.60kph
limit, travelling up to 78kph or 120 kph limit - travelling up to
156kph)

31-45% over the speed limit - R750.00 - 2 demerit point. (e.g.60kph
limit, travelling up to 87kph or 120 kph limit - travelling up to
174kph.)

46-60% over the speed limit - R1 250.00 - 3 demerit point. (e.g. 60kph
limit, travelling up to 96kph or 120 kph limit - travelling up to
192kph..)

60% and over - no fine - Court! 4 demerit points!

Inform every driver u know

DISCLAIMER :  AUDI - A Division of Volkswagen of South Africa (Pty) Ltd

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
No liability shall attach whatsoever to VWSA from this communication
except
where the sender is acting on specific authority of VWSA, such authority
being public record and acknowledged by VWSA by nature of the employee's
functions. This document may in no way be photocopied, printed, scanned
or
electronically duplicated for any purposes other than that for which it
was originally
intended.
If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please
discard
this message and notify VWSA immediately at [email]


author: Peter H.M. Brooks

subject: Re: New demerit system for drivers

text:
sorites wrote:
You give an accurate description of how he system operates in England.


author: Jason Gorringe

subject: Re: New demerit system for drivers

text:
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
The main difference in the UK is points (what we call demerits) for
speeding. They are based on the amount over the limit and can be higher, eg.
30miles per hour over the limit = 12 points which means your licence is
suspended for 1 year

Jason


author: Pyotr the Great

subject: Re: Need help locating database of doctors

text:
Lloyd Phillips wrote:

Just found a message on alt.support.depression but don't know if it
is the same service. E-mail is [email].


author: LASZLO SZARKA

subject: KETMILLIOS TUNTETES A BALOLDALI SOPREDEK VALASZTASI CSALASA ELLEN!!!!

text:
Tobb mint ketimllio ember tuntetett ma a baloldali sopredek
nemzetellenes agreszioja ellen a Kossuth teren.De ezen a delutanon
Kossuth terre valtozott egesz Budapest.A hidak tele voltak,meg az Alagut
is.Teljesen megbenult az elet Budapesten!
Nem kell a Magyar nepnek a csurhe baloldal tobbe!Hiaba csalnak a
valasztasokkal!
Szarka Laszlo


author: R. P.

subject: Re: KETMILLIOS TUNTETES A BALOLDALI SOPREDEK VALASZTASI CSALASA ELLEN!!!!

text:
"LASZLO SZARKA" <[email]> wrote:

    Nem kell tulozni a szamokkal, hiszen epp a tuntetes egyik
ceremoniamestere jelentette
be a tomegnek, hogy a rendorsegi becsles masfel millo volt.  Az is szep
szam.      RP


subject:
Re: KETMILLIOS TUNTETES A BALOLDALI SOPREDEK VALASZTASI CSALASA
 ELLEN!!!!

text:
A vilag legostobabb emberei azok akik a nyilvanvalo tenyekkel szemben is
vitatkozni kezdenek.Nana hogy a kommunistak kezeben levo hivatalok,hirkozlo
szervek es zugfirkaszok nem az igazat fogjak mondani.Pont jo medium vagy a
cionistaknak.Nekik a te fajtad a legmegfelelobb.Szarka Laszlo

"Sebestyï¿½n Balï¿½zs" wrote:


author: Gilgames

text:
<<

"A tï¿½meg rendszeresen megszakï¿½totta a szï¿½npadi mï¿½sort ï¿½temes Viktor-Viktor,
illetve ria-ria-hungï¿½ria kiï¿½ltï¿½ssal. Orbï¿½n Viktor beszï¿½de alatt tï¿½bbszï¿½r
lehetett hallani a megynerjï¿½k-megnyerjï¿½k skandï¿½lï¿½sï¿½t is. A hatalmas ovï¿½ciï¿½
miatt Orbï¿½n Viktor sokï¿½ig el sem tudta kezdeni beszï¿½dï¿½t. Medgyessy Pï¿½ter
nevï¿½nek emlï¿½tï¿½sï¿½t rendre hangos fï¿½jolï¿½s kï¿½vette.

Csodalkozni fogsz, de ez a nevek valtoztatasaval ugyanugy van minden januar
vegen az amerikai Kongresszusban az elnok beszede idejen.

Masik erdekes hir, hogy az MSzP is csinal valahol egy ellentuntetest, vittek
ket autobusznyi "tomeget", es allitolag az MT1 majdnem egyenlosulyunak tuntette
fel a Fidesz tuntetessel.

En ezt csak hallomasbol tudom, de egy USA beli abortusz tuntetesen 150,000
abortusz elleni es talan 20 abortusz melletti tunteteset az osszes network
azonos sullyal mutatta. A soanyol fiam ott  volt, latta.


text:
Gilga!Mi az hogy a spanyol fiam?Es miert kell jelzovel ellatnod a sajat fiadat?

Gilgames wrote:


text:
Bizonyitekok vannak a MIEP kezeben a csalasokrol,de azt az OVB
elutasitotta,mondvan hogy keson kuldtek be.Egyaltalan nem igaz amit irsz.Nem
bantalak erte,mert csak tajekozatlan ennyi az egesz.Ki hiszi azt el,hogy most
egymillioval tobben mentek el szavazni,de ez az egymillio uj szavazo csak az
MSZP-SZDSZ eredmenyeiben mutatkozik?!A csalas a komputeres osszeadasnal volt.A
MIEP-tol meg egyszeruen elloptak a szavazatokat.Ki torodik Europaban a baloldal
altal regen lejaratott "antiszemita-rasszista" MIEP panaszaival?!Vagy a
fasisztanak belyegzett Magyar nep panaszaival?!A szavazatok 35%-nak
osszeszamlalasanal tartottak csak amikor a Titokminiszter felhivta a MIEP-et es
kozolte veluk,hogy kistek.Honnan tudta?!Meg most sincs eldolve a valasztas,de o
mar akkor tudta?!A MIEP-tol legalabb 10% szavazatot elloptak ha nem
tobbet.Egeszen kozel allok az esemenyekhez ugy hogy elso kezbol kaptam--mar
menet kozben--az informaciokat.A balolda Magyarorszagon meg sohasem tudott
csalas vagy idegen beavatkozas nelkul hatalomra kerulni.
Szarka Laszlo.

"Sebestyï¿½n Balï¿½zs" wrote:


text:
<<

Az MSZP nem csinalt ellentuntetest, csak "kavehazi beszelgetest" vagy mit.
En meg azt se neztem.

SB

En ezt kaptam:

"ma kovacs ide a XVI. keruletbe ket busznyi kozonseggel egyutt erkezett
 es az m1 azt mondta, hogy "tobb szaz" ember elott tartotta fekete garbos
gyuleset itt a kofak mergesek voltak ra, mert akadalyozta a forgalmat (az
utcan politiualt...) az m1 ezt majdnem a Kossuth terivel egyenszilardsagu
esemenykent hozta..."


subject: Re: KETMILLIOS TUNTETES A BALOLDALI SOPREDEK VALASZTASI CSALASA

text:
<<

Gilga!Mi az hogy a spanyol fiam?Es miert kell jelzovel ellatnod a sajat fiadat?
Laszlo

Mar tobbszor irtam rola. Egy mexikoi gyerek egy evig itt lakott nalam.


text:
Pontosan.Mar a latszatra sem adnak annyira nyilvanvalo a csalas.NA ES?

Gilgames wrote:


text:
Tisztazzunk valamit.Itt aki HISZ--jo nagy marhasagokat--az nem en vagyok,hanem
te.Te itt eloadod a sajat elgondolasodat az esemenyekrol,es ezt ugy adod
elo,mint megfellebbezhetetlen igazsagot.En tenyekrol beszelek.Ne vitatkozz velem
ostortenelemrol mert csufosan megbuktatlak.Solyomvarat is Solyomvarnak
hivtak,nem pedig Jeruzsalemnek.Mint ahogy Kolozsvar sem Cluj,a KUN-MAH-GAR sem
Sumer,Pozsony sem Bratislava,a Varvidek sem Burgenland,Munkacs sem Munkacsovo,es
a felesegem sem Szarka-ova,hanem Szarka-ne.
Szarka Laszlo/es nem Ladislav/

"Sebestyï¿½n Balï¿½zs" wrote:


author: Peter Z. Zsombolyay

subject: Re: KETMILLIOS TUNTETES A BALOLDALI SOPREDEK VALASZTASI CSALASA   ELLEN!!!!

text:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:13:09 +0200, "Sebestyï¿½n Balï¿½zs"
<[email]> wrote:

Pontosan: a populista-demagï¿½g ï¿½t befejezï¿½ mï¿½rfï¿½ldkï¿½ve dï¿½szdoktor
PopsiVityka keddi beszï¿½de a TF-en. Fï¿½lelmetesen egyezik a vï¿½lemï¿½nyed
kedvenc ï¿½jsï¿½gom, a konzervatï¿½v- jobboldali FAZ (Frankfurter Allgemeine
Zeitung) kommentï¿½rjï¿½val (Csï¿½tï¿½rtï¿½k, 2002 ï¿½prilis 11). Az MTI a hosszï¿½
cikk nï¿½hï¿½ny rï¿½szletï¿½t lefordï¿½totta:

http://www.nepszabadsag.hu/Default.asp?DocCollID=47654&DocID=47453#47453

Orbï¿½n a szemï¿½re vetette a szocialistï¿½knak, hogy ellene szavaztak a
kormï¿½ny csaknem minden tï¿½rvï¿½nytervezetï¿½nek ï¿½ elhallgatta azonban, hogy
ez nem ï¿½ppen szokatlan dolog a demokrï¿½ciï¿½kban.

FAZ: A miniszterelnï¿½k ï¿½s pï¿½rtja csaknem egyedï¿½l van

ï¿½A nagy- ï¿½s a finï¿½nctoke ellenï¿½ cï¿½mmel kï¿½zï¿½lt csï¿½tï¿½rtï¿½kï¿½n a
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung beszï¿½molï¿½t Orbï¿½n Viktor vï¿½lasztï¿½si
kï¿½zdelmï¿½rol. A nï¿½met konzervatï¿½v lap tudï¿½sï¿½tï¿½ja rï¿½mutatott, az
SZDSZ-nek a parlamentbe tï¿½rtï¿½nt bejutï¿½sï¿½val az ellenzï¿½knek jobbak az
esï¿½lyei a gyozelemre. Orbï¿½nnak inkï¿½bb csak elmï¿½leti esï¿½lye van arra,
hogy megakadï¿½lyozza levï¿½ltï¿½sï¿½t. A kormï¿½nyfo mimikï¿½jï¿½ban vasï¿½rnap este
ï¿½ta nem nehï¿½z fï¿½lismerni az egy hete mï¿½g gyozelmï¿½ben bizonyos matador
mï¿½ly megrï¿½kï¿½nyï¿½dï¿½sï¿½t.

ï¿½1998-ban tï¿½rtï¿½nt hatalomra jutï¿½sa ï¿½ta Orbï¿½n ï¿½s az egyetemi ï¿½vekbol
szï¿½rmazï¿½ tanï¿½csadï¿½k ï¿½s barï¿½tok kï¿½re a politika szï¿½lsosï¿½ges kiï¿½lezï¿½sï¿½n
fï¿½radozott, frontï¿½lis tï¿½madï¿½sokat intï¿½zve az ï¿½ltaluk kï¿½pï¿½nyegforgatï¿½
kommunistï¿½knak nevezett szocialistï¿½k ellen. Ezt a stratï¿½giï¿½t a kormï¿½ny
megelozo vï¿½delemkï¿½nt adta be a nï¿½pnek, amelynek cï¿½lja a rï¿½gi
kommunistï¿½k visszatï¿½rï¿½sï¿½nek a megakadï¿½lyozï¿½sa. A tï¿½t a haladï¿½s vagy
restaurï¿½ciï¿½, nï¿½vekedï¿½s vagy recessziï¿½, hazaszeretet vagy ï¿½rulï¿½s ï¿½
rï¿½viden: mi vagy ok. Orbï¿½nï¿½k cï¿½lja ezzel a polgï¿½ri ï¿½gy szï¿½mï¿½ra
ï¿½elveszettï¿½ szocialista hï¿½vek fï¿½ken tartï¿½sa ï¿½s kirekesztï¿½se volt, s
ï¿½gy hittï¿½k, az ï¿½sszes tï¿½bbi vï¿½lasztï¿½ a polgï¿½ri tï¿½mbï¿½t fogja erosï¿½teniï¿½
ï¿½ ï¿½rta a FAZ tudï¿½sï¿½tï¿½ja.

Ez a stratï¿½gia azï¿½rt bukott meg, mert a vï¿½lasztï¿½k tï¿½bbsï¿½ge fï¿½lismerte:
az egykori ï¿½llampï¿½rt reformszï¿½rnyï¿½bï¿½l kinott szocialistï¿½k mï¿½r rï¿½gen
szociï¿½ldemokratï¿½kkï¿½ lettek. Rï¿½juk szavaz az ipari munkï¿½sok tï¿½bbsï¿½ge,
de a kï¿½zï¿½posztï¿½ly, a gazdasï¿½gi ï¿½s az ï¿½rtelmisï¿½gi elit jï¿½ rï¿½sze is. A
nyugodtan viselkedo szocialistï¿½k ezï¿½rt hï¿½romszor annyi hatï¿½rozatlan
szavazï¿½t tudtak a maguk oldalï¿½ra ï¿½llï¿½tani, mint az izgatott polgï¿½riak.

A miniszterelnï¿½k ï¿½s pï¿½rtja viszont csaknem egyedï¿½l van - rï¿½adï¿½sul
foglya sajï¿½t stratï¿½giï¿½jï¿½nak ï¿½ mutatott rï¿½ a nï¿½met konzervatï¿½v lap.
Orbï¿½n kilï¿½pett az ï¿½llamfï¿½rfi szerepï¿½bol, hogy a pï¿½rtvezï¿½rt ï¿½s
nï¿½ptribunt alakï¿½tsa, ï¿½s minden erejï¿½vel megprï¿½bï¿½lja megfordï¿½tani a
lapjï¿½rï¿½st. Egy kedd esti rendezvï¿½nyen, amelyet teljes terjedelmï¿½ben,
egyenes adï¿½sban kï¿½zvetï¿½tett a kormï¿½nyhoz hu ï¿½llami televï¿½ziï¿½, Orbï¿½n
arra figyelmeztetett jï¿½ 60 ezer hallgatï¿½ elott: ï¿½Ha ellenfeleink
jutnak hatalomra, veszï¿½lybe kerï¿½l minden, amiï¿½rt az elmï¿½lt nï¿½gy ï¿½vben
dolgoztunkï¿½. A szocialistï¿½k alatt ugyanis ï¿½a nagytoke ï¿½s a pï¿½nztoke
alakï¿½t kormï¿½nyt, ezek azonban nem a polgï¿½rok ï¿½rdekeit kï¿½pviselik,
hanem csak a sajï¿½t hasznukatï¿½.

A nï¿½met tudï¿½sï¿½tï¿½ emlï¿½keztetett arra, hogy csaknem ugyanezekkel a
szavakkal kampï¿½nyolt a szï¿½lsojobboldali ï¿½s antiszemita MIï¿½P a
szocialistï¿½k ï¿½s a baloldali liberï¿½lisok ellen ï¿½ persze nem feledkezve
meg a ï¿½zsidï¿½ szï¿½cskï¿½rï¿½l, amikor a Magyarorszï¿½gra ï¿½ramlott toke
pontosabb leï¿½rï¿½sï¿½rï¿½l volt szï¿½. Orbï¿½n a szemï¿½re vetette a
szocialistï¿½knak, hogy ellene szavaztak a kormï¿½ny csaknem minden
tï¿½rvï¿½nytervezetï¿½nek ï¿½ elhallgatta azonban, hogy ez nem ï¿½ppen szokatlan
dolog a demokrï¿½ciï¿½kban. Mikï¿½nt azt is elhallgatta, hogy az ellenzï¿½k a
gyors, eroltetett ï¿½temu tï¿½rvï¿½nyhozï¿½si folyamat ï¿½s a parlamenti
ï¿½lï¿½snapok szï¿½mï¿½nak drasztikus csï¿½kkentï¿½se miatt szavazott tï¿½bbnyire
nemmel. Amidon a szocialista ï¿½s liberï¿½lis kï¿½pviselok egyszer
tiltakozï¿½skï¿½ppen kivonultak az ï¿½lï¿½sterembol, Orbï¿½n utï¿½nuk kiï¿½ltott: A
parlament ellenzï¿½k nï¿½lkï¿½l is mukï¿½dik!

Kedden mï¿½g valami tï¿½rtï¿½nt, ami nem volt vï¿½letlen, hanem a fokozott
megfï¿½lemlï¿½tï¿½si hadjï¿½rat rï¿½szï¿½nek tunik ï¿½ vï¿½lekedett a FAZ tudï¿½sï¿½tï¿½ja.
Nï¿½hï¿½ny OTP-fiï¿½kban leï¿½llï¿½tottï¿½k az ï¿½llami tï¿½mogatï¿½st  ï¿½lvezo
lakï¿½shiteleket folyï¿½sï¿½tï¿½sï¿½t. Az ï¿½gyfeleknek azt mondtï¿½k: a
hitelkï¿½relem benyï¿½jtï¿½sï¿½val vï¿½rjï¿½k meg a vï¿½lasztï¿½sok mï¿½sodik
fordulï¿½jï¿½t, mert nem biztos, hogy kormï¿½nyvï¿½ltï¿½s esetï¿½n megmarad az
ï¿½llamilag szavatolt alacsony kamat.

PZ


author: CMT

subject: Re: KETMILLIOS TUNTETES A BALOLDALI SOPREDEK VALASZTASI CSALASA    ELLEN!!!!

text:
Igy, Igy. A betegeket nem szabad ingerelni. :-))))))))))
Cs
  Sebestyï¿½n Balï¿½zs <[email]> schrieb in im
Newsbeitrag: a9e0qd$2e2q9$[email]...

  Ne haragudj, nem vettem eszre. Ha legalabb adsz valami
linket a tenyekre,
  meg fogom nezni.

  Jol van.

  SB


author: Fucking Komin the Pedophile Turd

subject:
FURTHER PROOF KOMIN THE DUMB-ARSE CAMBODIAN FUCK IS A WANNABE WHITE
	BOY!!!

text:
On Feb 23, 10:24 am, "Vishnu ,  om  Mangalam  Mangalam"
<[email]> wrote:

Hey Komin you dumb-fuck Cambodian arsehole.  I said you are a WANNABE
WHITE BOY, not A WHITE BOY.

This is yet further proof that you would really like the world to
believe you are a white boy, not a dark-skinned Cambodian fuck!!!

And besides, your previous posts have shown that you suck up to the
slitty-eyed whale-eating Japanese surrender monkeys!


author: Pinet

subject: Mallorca: S'hauria d'ensenyar la llengua andalusa

text:
MALLORCA: Sï¿½HAURIA Dï¿½ENSENYAR LA LLENGUA ANDALUSA

Ara que s'acosten les eleccions, propï¿½s que els partits
mallorquinistes (UM i PSM) posin en els seus programes electorals
aquests 4 punts en matï¿½ria lingï¿½ï¿½stica: 1) Llibertat: Que l'espanyol
(com qualsevol altra llengua sense tradiciï¿½ popular parlada a Mallorca
fins a la segona meitat del segle XX enï¿½ï¿½, com l'anglï¿½s, l'alemany o
l'ï¿½rab) sigui voluntari i s'ensenyi sense imposicions.
2) Foraster: Nom popular que rep a Mallorca la llengua espanyola,
reconegut oficialment.
3) Andalï¿½s: Ensenyament de les modalitats andaluses, posat que la
immensa majoria dels hispanoparlants que se sï¿½n mudats a Mallorca sï¿½n
de procedï¿½ncia andalusa. Si agafau el llibre Dialectologï¿½a Espaï¿½ola,
escrit de n'Alonso Zamora Vicente, i pegau una ullada a l'apartat
Andaluz, veureu com, en andalï¿½s, hi ha un fester de diferï¿½ncies de
gï¿½nere de mots que en espanyol estï¿½ndard sï¿½n masculï¿½ i en andalï¿½s
femenï¿½ i a l'enrevï¿½s: er costumbre, er sartï¿½n, er porciï¿½n, er miel, la
color, la calor, per dirï¿½ne uns pocs exemples. Veureu com, en andalï¿½s,
substitueixen vosotros per ustedes: un andalï¿½s pot dir uttede hacen,
perï¿½ tambï¿½ uttede hacï¿½i, no vosotros hacï¿½is, com en espanyol
estï¿½ndard. Veureu com conserven la ï¿½b de l'imperfecte de segons quins
verbs acabats en ï¿½er, ï¿½ir, que l'espanyol estï¿½ndard ha perduda: leï¿½ba,
traï¿½ba, oï¿½ba, creï¿½ba. Veureu com la h de vegades sï¿½ que es pronuncia
(com fan sempre en anglï¿½s i en alemany), no com en espanyol estï¿½ndard,
que ha perduda aquesta pronï¿½ncia. Veureu com el plural dels mots
acabats en ï¿½e, ï¿½o no es forma afegint una ï¿½s, com en espanyol
estï¿½ndard, sinï¿½ obrint la vocal tï¿½nica que tengui el mot i obrint la
ï¿½e o la ï¿½o finals: el pï¿½rro / lï¿½p pï¿½rrï¿½. Per tant, l'andalï¿½s tï¿½ set
vocals, no cinc com l'espanyol estï¿½ndard. I, si ens posï¿½vem a parlar
de diferï¿½ncies lï¿½xiques, no acabarï¿½em mai: alcachofa/alcarcil,
hernia/quebrancia, abuelo/antepare, miedo/jindama. No hi ha dret que
un pobre andalï¿½s no pugui parlar aixï¿½ com l'ha ensenyat son pare o el
seu padrï¿½.
4) Catalï¿½/mallorquï¿½ obligatori per fer feina a Mallorca. Com ho ï¿½s el
castellï¿½/andalï¿½s per fer feina a Andalusia. Com ho ï¿½s el
castellï¿½/argentï¿½ per fer feina a l'Argentina. Com ho ï¿½s
l'anglï¿½s/americï¿½ per fer feina als Estats Units. Qui no li agradi,
aixï¿½ com ï¿½s vingut perquï¿½ ha volgut i lliurement, tambï¿½ se'n pot
tornar lliurement. No l'obligarï¿½ ningï¿½ a romandre a Mallorca.
Jordi Caldentey. Manacor.
(Carta publicada a "Diari de Balears".7/1/2002)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.radiocatalunya.ca/principal.htm


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Mallorca: S'hauria d'ensenyar la llengua andalusa

text:
On 8 Jan 2003 09:05:36 -0800, [email] (Pinet) wrote:

Bien dicho. Y a este chico listo que alguien presto le ayude a
aprender a dar coces y a  rebuznar, puesto que tiene que mantener su
trabajo. Sugiero a Carod Rovira, Mas o alguien por el estilo.

Claro que si no le interesa puede cambiar de feina y largarse a tocar
la cagamandurrï¿½a a Nueva Zelanda, que hay mucha demanda.

Zorro!!


text:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:22:49 +0100, "Gamarï¿½s"
<[email]> wrote:

Para eso te podrï¿½an contratar a tï¿½. Te regalan una gorra de plato y un
pito y serï¿½as absolutamente feliz.

Lo de las listas puede contigo, animaluco.


author: ssharma

subject: Communist Arabia.

text:
After the birth of Israel, many shieks of Arabia agree in principle to
have a united Arabia, forging an alliance-forgetting their differences-
to counter a common enemy.
This loose federation suffers many political and economic debacles
-thanks to the handiwork of western powers.
In 1973, a young prince, who is also the Minister of Defence makes a
coup attempt and captures power after killing all members of Royal
family.Rest of shieks flee to western countries.
The communist state of Arabia is proclaimed in 1974, but Islam was to
be untouched.
With rapid modernization and Soviet Alliance, the nation is a Regional
superpower in mid 80s.
With western countries still struggling to get past from recessions,
the arc of Communism is expanding every now and then.


author: Peter Bjørn Perlsø

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
ssharma <[email]> wrote:

And the communist empire grows rich from the oil of SA, further
strengthening it.


author: Robert Kolker

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
ssharma wrote:

How is that possible? Marxist ideology is atheistic. Furthermore Islam
is a very propertarian religion as is its pregenitor, Judaism.

Bob Kolker


author: Jack Linthicum

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
Robert Kolker wrote:

Are you sure?

http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/islamic_communist.htm

An Islamic Communist Writes to Karl Marx

by Abul Kasem

Dear Comrade Karl;

Lal Salam (red greeting) and As Salamu Alaikum. Hope you are not
perturbed for greeting you with the Islamic salutation. You might be
wondering why I chose to greet you in such a manner. After all, Islam
was not your cup of tea, that is, when you were alive. However, the
ever-changing events during the time-period after your departure from
this mortal world have made us bestow upon you the Islamic blessings
that you missed when you were alive. You see, we are now in a position
to redeem you from your sin of preaching Communism to mankind and
devising a way for salvation the downtrodden people.

Look Karl, we discovered, to our utter surprise, that what you wrote in
your scripture, the Das Kapital, and what Allah wrote in the Holy
Qur'an are quite similar. For example, you wanted to establish the
'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' in the world through armed struggle,
if needed, which is another name for Communist Terrorism, won't you
agree? Now, read the Qur'an. What does it say? Yes, it preaches the
same idea, believe it or not. Comrade, many verses of the Qur'an
clearly states that the idea of Islam is to establish the 'Dictatorship
of Allah' in the world through war and blood shed, which is the name
for Islamic Terrorism. How uncanny this resemblance is, think of it!
Don't you agree, my friend, that Peoples' Liberation Struggle and
Islamic Jihad are same?

How strange! Come to think of it. All of them specialized in terror,
plunder, and genocide. Don't you think your diehard comrades even beat
Muhammad's comrades in this very special art? Were not they very
clever, comrade Karl?

My dear friend in Arms, do you remember the Talibans? I am sure you do.
How could you forget the barbaric Islamic punishment that these diehard
soldiers of Allah meted out to your ardent believers?-I mean the
Communists of Afghanistan.  We learned, as stated earlier, from reading
the Qur'anic verses and the Ahadith and by consulting many Mullahs that
there is a very good chance of your redemption, if we tow the Islamic
Jihadists' line. Let me elaborate on this:

Comrade, have you read the Sahih Bukhari, or any other Hadis book? I am
sure you did not. Were not they available at the British Museum when
you were meditating there a la Muhammad style? If you did not read
them, you have missed the gems of all books. Now-a-days, we read these
incredible books along with the Das Kapital and the Communist
Manifesto, believe it or not. These Islamic Holy Scriptures sound
almost similar to your works. It is a great pleasure to read them in
this manner because this makes us acceptable to the Islamists. The
Jihadists are also elated when they find that we head to mosques
clutching the Qur'an and offering prayer standing and sitting by their
side.

Five practices of fitra (belief) are: 1. Circumcision 2. Shaving pubic
region 3. Clipping nails 4. Cutting mustaches short 5.R removal of arm
pit hair...7.72.777, 779

If you have trouble comprehending this seemingly mindless provisions,
get a copy of the Sahih Bukhari from Muhammad and read. You will find,
it reads:

Volume 7, Book 72, Number 777:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra:
circumcision, shaving the pubic region, clipping the nails and cutting
the moustaches short."

And remember, except for item 1 (i.e., circumcision), repeat those
rituals every 40 days, because another Hadis in Sahih Muslim says so.
Here is the Hadis:

There is a forty days of time limit for clipping the moustache, cutting
of nails, shaving pubes-etc-.2.0497

Read the full Hadis below:

Book 002, Number 0497:

Anas reported: A time limit has been prescribed for us for clipping the
moustache, cutting the nails, plucking hair under the armpits, shaving
the pubes, that it should not be neglected far more than forty nights.

Comrade, there are more rituals for you, for example, when you visit
toilet you must observe the following: (please note that for brevity's
sake I have included only the Hadis number for you to confirm)

Offer prayer before entering the lavatory. (Sahih Bukhari: 8.75.334)

Do not defecate facing the Qibla. (Sahih Muslim: 2.0504)

Do not use toilet paper; instead, use stones-at least three (odd
numbers only). (Sahih Muslim 2.0458)

Do not touch penis with your right hand while urinating in the
lavatory. (Sahih Bukhari 1.4.155)

After doing your business clean your backside with water; do not use
right hand, use left hand. (Sahih Muslim: 2.0513)

As a final warning: do not expose your genitals to the sky, Allah may
be offended, no joke (Sahih Bukhari: 7.72. 709).

Dear Guru, you must read this Hadis to be convinced.

Volume 7, Book 72, Number 709:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet had forbidden: (A) the Mulamasa and Munabadha (bargains),
(B) the offering of two prayers, one after the morning compulsory
prayer till the sun rises, and the others, after the 'Asr prayer till
the sun sets (C) He also forbade that one should sit wearing one
garment, nothing of which covers his private parts (D) and prevent them
from exposure to the sky; (E) he also forbade Ishtimal-as-Samma'.

Dear Comrade, we are sorry that we have to instruct you to confirm to
those Islamic habits-no matter how ridiculous you might think of them.
Those are the ways of Muhammad, and remember; whatever Muhammad
practiced Allah approved them for eternity. Do not cry, my dear friend,
we must win this time. We must please the Islamic Terrorists to achieve
our victory-we must be politically correct and tow the line of the
Islamists. Therefore, please do not disappoint us.


subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
David Johnston wrote:

Also, you have to take into account that this is apparently a DBWI in
which the Arabian peninsula is divided up into a number of independent
Shiekdoms in the late 40's.

Bruce


author: Big Red

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
The Royal family would somehow have to share the wealth, the oil
wealth. Ahh, no. Nobody in their right mind would give up a billion
dollar fortune.


author: eatfastnoodle

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
Communist state?Islam was to
be untouched? Boy, what parallel universe do you live in? Two of
Islam's most sacred places were occupied by an antheist ideology?Arabs
will probably be more willing to live under Israel's rule than
accepting atheist ideology


subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
David Johnston wrote:

One of the major tenets of Arab Socialism, which, like Communism when
applied to real situations, was able to dodge the bullet of ownership
with some fancy footwork.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Socialism

Ideology

To 'Aflaq, Arab Socialism was a necessary consequence of the quest
for Arab unity and freedom, as only a socialist system of property and
development would overcome the social and economic legacy of
colonialism. At the same time, he vigorously rejected orthodox Marxism,
considering its materialist, internationalist and atheist foundations
ill-adapted to the Arab situation. While Arab Socialism endorsed much
of the economic and social programme of European-style socialism, its
divergent intellectual and spiritual foundations imposed some limits on
its revolutionary potential: The ownership of the means of production
was to be nationalized, but only within the constraints of traditional
values such as private property and inheritance. "Primitive" social
structures such as feudalism, nomadism, tribalism, religious
factionalism and the oppression of women were to be overcome, but not
at the cost of severing the social ties that constituted the Arab
identity. Arab Socialism was frequently pictured as a "middle way"
between the Capitalist West and the Communist East, and as a modern
expression of traditional Arab values.

Arab Socialism is difficult to disentangle from the anti-colonial
nationalist paradigm of the day, and this also manifested itself in the
political and economic doctrines of the ideology. For example, the
economic programme of Arab Socialists was often heavily focused on
severing ties with the former colonial power, redistributing land that
had been confiscated by settlers or foreign rulers, and creating
self-reliance in the economic sphere as a means of securing political
independence.

Arguably, the most notable economic manifestations of Arab Socialism
were the land reforms in Egypt (1952), Syria (1963) and Iraq (1970) and
the nationalization of major industries and the banking systems in
those countries. In Egypt and Syria, many of these policies were later
reversed. They were more successful in Iraq, possibly due to the
country's oil wealth, until the beginning of the Iran-Iraq War in 1980.


author: Mark Edelstein

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
It's one thing to tolerate a Baathist Iraq whose ideological moorings
are somewhat loose. Another to tolerate a People's Republic of Yemen
writ large across the Gulf, which was _Marxist_


author: Straha

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text: Implausible. The west would intervene to stop communist arabia.


author: mike

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
Raymond Speer wrote:

Considering that OTL a _Barrel_ of Crude sold for about $1.50 and
 the US pumping Capacity didn't plateu till '71 or so, Hmm.

 these were the top exporters to the USA in '68
Venezuela, then Canada,(49% so far combined)
then Saudis(2.6%) and Mexico(1.6%)
as a very distant  3rd&4th suppliers, then a whole mess of sub 1%
from many other countries. All Persian Gulf exporters equaled 7.1%
of all US Imports. They just didn't have the market share to effect US
prices that much, yet.

And the type of that was important. From 1964 to 1974 imports of Oil
product increased, to about 40% of it all being Bunker C, not gasoline,
which less less than 2 percent. The remainder was mostly Crude(45%)
but also Diesel(4.6%) and Jet-A(3.4%)

Seems the CVs cruising in Yankee and Dixie Stations off Vietnam
needed a lot of oilers to keep going, with Bunker C. And Jet-A and
Diesel
also in demand for SEAsia

Was researching for that 'No Vietnam' thread.

Anyhoo, the only way I can see $2 Gas in 1968 would have been
from IRBMs from Cuba making parts of Texas and Oklahoma
unlivable.

Arabian Oil just wasn't that important, yet.

**
mike
**


author: Raymond Speer

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
I woould suggest an alternative POD:

"The rift between the Soviet Union and its Anglo Allies was sharp and
immediate upon their recognition of the Beck Government in  1944. The
cessation of hostilities in the West  left the Greater German Reich
strengthen eastern defences under the leadership of Field Marshal
Manstein.

" * * * * The loss of the Second Battle of Warsaw and the ensuing
entrapment of Red Army Forces in White Russia persuaded Stalin that the
new German frontier in Eastern Europe could not be penetrated.  Shortly
before Christmas, 1944, half a year after Hitler's death, Molotov signed
a peace treaty with Beck's Germany.

"* * * * Prime Minister Attlee and President Dewey threatened armed
action against the Russian incursion into Iran, but Stalin was correct
in predicting no concerted effective stand by the  English speaking
nations.

"Dewey's victory over the Democratic incumbent in 1944 had been fueled
largely by widespread disgust against the comprmise peace with Germany.
Many Americans felt that the main engine of German evil had been the
General Staff of the German Army, and yet Roosevelt had cut a deal witha
leader of that group. Had Americans died for nothing but the restoration
of a rump Czech and Polish States?

"* * * * In the battlefields of Iraq, the Anglo-Soviet  War of 1945-48
was decided.  Montgomery was released from his Soviet prison camp to
argue for the rest of his life that Zhukov was not a better commander

"* * * * The Pan Pacific Treaty Organization, an American lead
international defense league, was formed at the start of Dewey's second
term as President.  In retaliation, Stalin organized the Teheran Pact, a
Communist rival to the  capitalists PPTO.

" Frequent controversy then and later reupted over whether the Americans
should have helped Britian defend the Middle East. In Winston
Churchill's "What-If" novel _Victory in Perpetuity_, published in 1953,
the USA armies helping  Generalissimo Chiang are sent into Siberia (as
General MacArthur had advised Dewey) before the Red Army broke the
British lines in Iraq. In that novel, a prosperous Europe is powered by
cheap oil freely flowing from the Middle East * * * *

"The reality is that Europe has made due with converted coal and
American imports. Various proposals for a systematic trade organization
in Europe have been proposed (espicially by short lived Communist
governments in France and Italy) but failed because of resistance from
Britian or Germany.

"The Nazis may have actually won the lections of 1954,  but that
achievement only lead to the military coup d'etat of that year. Under
General Rommel, the Reich's domestic institutions paralled Spain under
General Franco * * * *

"Two dollar a gallon gasoline cost Lyndon Johnson re-election to the
presidency in 1964. George Romney, Johnson's successor, did not seek a
second term, knowing that his Administration's policies of fuel
conservation had soured the American electorate * * * *

"Prime Minister Enoch Powell refused to drop the legal barriers to
non-white immigration to Britain. Australia copied its motehr country..
Rommel's successor, Leudke, expelled the Arabs that had been admitted
into Greater Germany after riots broke out against the newcomers * * * *

"The Zhdanov Doctrine stated that no Communist regime would permit
anti-State  practices by any "organization of superstition." Since the
declaration that God was more important than the State counted as
ant-giovernemnt propaganda in the opinion of the Politburo,  pograoms
were a regular feature in Communist Arabia.

"* * * * Khomeini  was the spritual leader of  the Shite community in
New York City and was an advisor to Governor Nelson Rockefeller * * * *
held responisble for John Lindsey's failure to be re-elected.

"Henry Jackson openly quarrelled with the Soviet policy of forcing all
Jews to live in the Autononous Region of Israel. American Jews also
denounced the ghetto the Communists had made in the Holy Land * * * *

"The return of Molotov to power as Zhdanov's successor proved that the
Soviet leadership was old and unimaginative, Egypt could be held in the
Soviet orbit only with ten divisions patrolling that country; Iranians
were setting themselves on fire to protest tehir Communist despot, and
endemic corruption in the oil fields were making billionaires out of
well-placed party leaders.  The instigation that brought the whole
ediface to collapse was the assassination of the ancient Molotov by
Fidel Castro, a disillusioned exile from Cuba. * * * *

"Now that Communism has peacefully collapsed in the Middle East (except
for a couple of anomalies like the firing squad for commissars like
Saddam Hussein) the international priority is to get those countries
integrated into the world economy. Unfortunately, after half a century
of Communism, all they have to offer is crude petroleum, which modern
economies do not need in great quantities.  AMC is putting out new large
mini buses that run on gasoline in a hope that will consume some of the
plentiful gasoline that the Middle East is so willing to send to us.


subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
Straha wrote:

How would an extremist Muslim nation be communist? Communism is an
atheistic theory.

Bob Kolker


author: David Johnston

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:47:41 -0500, Robert Kolker
<[email]> wrote:

By dumping the atheism of course, which is hardly necessary.


author: David Tenner

subject: Re: Communist Arabia.

text:
David Johnston <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

"Another important element of the PDRY regime's early measures at
transforming Yemen was the party's approach to the role of Islam in a
socialist state. Before independence, Islam represented the primary
legitimizing ideology of the social order and the state. The PDRY regime
adopted a relatively cautious, accommodating approach to Islam,
particularly by stressing the commonalities that socialism and Islam
shared (especially the commitment to egalitarianism and social justice).
In the PDRY constitution of 1970, Islam was recognized as the religion of
the country and was guaranteed protection insofar as it was consonant with
the constitution. Instruction in Islam was required as part of the public
education curriculum.[14]

"The PDRY promoted Islam for its revolutionary potential. Indeed,
according to Abd al-Fattah Ismail, the party's chief ideologist and
successor to Salim Rubayyi as president of the PDRY:

"'Islam was exposed to extreme distortion and falsification....In the
Abbasid and Ummayid eras, the aristocratic forces were able to divert
Islam to goals and concepts other than that for which it had come. They
did that to serve their interests and to serve the thrones, the kingdoms,
and the hereditary caliphate which had nothing at all to do with Islam.
Islam, which came essentially as a revolution, was transformed by feudal
and aristocratic forces [robbing] Islam of its revolutionary essence and
diverting it to serve other goals.'"

http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2005/issue1/jv9no1a2.html


text:
With 50.000 euros how many years can living in your country?
to buy a house, to eat.......
how many euros to day for living?
it is possible living 10 years or more with this money?


author: harrietp

subject: Re: With 50.000 euros how many years can living in your country?

text:
Thats 90,000 New Zealand dollars. NZ is an OECD country and the standard of
living is similar to countries such as Australia and Canada. 90,000 may
(very unlikely) get you a very small house in a very small town. With
nothing left over. It would be a good deposit in the city. Though our
interest rates are currently at 10%. You could live on this amount of
money if you were being VERY cheap for ten years, but to stay ten years
you would have to get residency which would cost a lot. You also need to
pass a lot of tests which look at things like your education, english
language levels, age, wealth... Or you could come with a skill we need eg
nursing.
To live you would need 30 - 50 euro a day, though this is only an
estimate. A hostel for the night costs between $15 and $30, though you can
also camp which is cheap or free.
Petrol is about $1.20, a meal out 10- 30, a packet of ciagrettes $12
(heavily taxed), A beer $4- 7.
NZ is not cheap. 50,000 would not let you buy a house, eat and live for
ten years.