author: Katie

text:
Forget my disclaimer, I'm butting in.

In the past few days, I have seen atleast three people compare others to
rapists. (I'm not stating which posts, I don't even know if it was this thread)
Now, to me, that's quite harsh coming from other people here.

And the other thing I wanted to say before I replied was that honestly, I don't
side with either of you on this. I side with some things that both of you had
said, so please neither of you get mad at me.

Alan said:
 Like Laurie said before. What would it accomplish if everyong just ignored
others' posts?

Well, there's a difference between reading between the lines, and clearly
twisting things.

[...]

Alright. So let's say that I'm hungry, and someone else is hungry, that person
steals and I don't. I still don't get the lesson.

Kerry said:

 One thing that's always bothered me online is that I can never tell people's
tone. And that I dont' normally converse with you all in person so I can't tell
your level of sarcasm with every sentence. Kerry, you'll never know if he meant
something to hurt, or he was just "expressing his anger and disguest", you seem
to insist he's malicious.

(IMHO) this sounds like, because one person has had a traumatic experience, no
one else's experiences count.

I can. I've been hurt by words. Sometimes they may hurt more than physical
abuse. And yes, I have been devastated by words.

I still consider myself having a thin skin. And I'm sorry if that's a bad
thing. But it's how I am, and /maybe/ how Alan is. And yes, I do take offense
to that comment.

will.

What's the point of this debate if you insist on never believing him?

Like I said before, I dont' favor either of you. Because reading this thread is
offensive from either side.

Katie


author: Gorgeous George

subject: Re: Survival of relocated rodents

text:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:16:07 -0000, "Michael Saunby"
<[email]> wrote:

Don't be silly Michael, I understand your wish to discredit humanity
and respect for life, but I can assure you a mouse would suffer no
more from relocation then a human would. They/we learn to adapt, and
very quickly if our lives are on the line. It's a most reasonable
solution and perfectly viable. You really do no creature a favour by
killing it, even yourself.

Mice like most wildlife do not need to live indoors, they can survive
quite happily out of doors and have done for ever, they are also well
able to look after themselves as regards predators.

Your concerns whilst hardly honourable are totally unfound.

I do hope you would be able to learn from this free advice and put it
to good use next time you come across a harmless mouse, do I kill it
or do I respect it?

.

*************************************************************************************
Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
- Sir Winston Churchill

The Eagle Has Landed.

                                 /T /I
                                / |/ | .-~/
                            T\ Y  I  |/  /  _
           /T               | \I  |  I  Y.-~/
          I l   /I       T\ |  |  l  |  T  /
       T\ |  \ Y l  /T   | \I  l   \ `  l Y
   __  | \l   \l  \I l __l  l   \   `  _. |
   \ ~-l  `\   `\  \  \\ ~\  \   `. .-~   |
    \   ~-. "-.  `  \  ^._ ^. "-.  /  \   |
  .--~-._  ~-  `  _  ~-_.-"-." ._ /._ ." ./
  ^.___~"--._    ~-{  .-~ .  `\ Y . /    |
   <__ ~"-.  ~       /_/   \   \I  Y   : |
     ^-.__           ~(_/   \   >._:   | l______
         ^--.,___.-~"  /_/   !  `-.~"--l_ /     ~"-.
                (_/ .  ~(   /'     "~"--,Y   -=b-. _)
                 (_/ .  \  :           / l      c"~o \
                  \ /    `.    .     .^   \_.-~"~--.  )
                   (_/ .   `  /     /       !       )/
                    / / _.   '.   .':      /        '
                    ~(_/ .   /    _  `  .-<_
                      /_/ . ' .-~" `.  / \  \          ,z=.
                      ~( /   '  :   | K   "-.~-.______//
                        "-,.    l   I/ \_    __{--->._(==.
                         //(     \  <    ~"~"     //
                        /' /\     \  \     ,v=.  ((
                      .^. / /\     "  }__ //===-  `            Roy!/ASC
                     / / ' '  "-.,__ {---(==-
                   .^ '       :  T  ~"   ll
                  / .  .  . : | :!        \\
                 (_/  /   | | j-"          ~^


author: Five Cats

subject: Re: Survival of relocated rodents

text:
In article <b57na2$312$1$[email]>, Michael Saunby
<[email]> writes
<snip>
<snip>
<snip>

Avoiding feeding pests of any kind is an excellent way of reducing the
likelihood of one's housing getting infested.  Having a cat or two helps
as well.  When I moved into the house I'm just selling in Yorkshire
there was a mouse problem - packets of porridge oats for example would
get chewed on the corners and there would be obvious mouse droppings
around.  Then I was adopted by a cat, and after a little while never saw
any hint of a mouse again.


author: rick etter

subject: Re: Survival of relocated rodents

text:
"Gorgeous George" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
traps?
a
woods
them
or
=================
In other words, no you don't have any information....

but then, that's not news...


author: Peter Ashby

subject: Re: Survival of relocated rodents

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Gorgeous George <[email]> wrote:

Do you have any research to back up this assurance by chance? So you
think that relocating a mouse from your warm, dry, predator free house
to a cold, wet environment where it has no nest, no idea of the location
of food sources, full of predators and very possibly a full complement
of local mice is not seriously stressful? Since your domestic mouse may
be several generations housebound before being caught just how are they
to know all the things a mouse raised outside would know?

 They/we learn to adapt, and

Ok, so the next mouse I catch in my house will have adapted very quickly
to have titanium bones to resist the force of the spring trap. This is
of course a situation where a mouse's life is on the line. Similarly is
a mouse supposed to instantly know where its non existent nest is when
it needs to escape from a predator in the place you have just put it?

If your regard for mice is so great then surely you will embark on a
program of familiarisation prior to release. They do it for bears and
apes so why not mice? Or are mouse lives not as valuable as bear or ape
lives?

Equal Treatment For Relocated Rodents! Now!

Peter


subject: Re: Survival of relocated rodents

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Five Cats <[email]> wrote:

One of the things that always amuses me about AR types is that they will
go into bat for humane traps for mice yet many of them keep cats. It is
a value call whether modern poisons or a spring trap are less
stressful/painful to a mouse than the tender mercies of your average
moggie. Or even next door's moggie if you put it outside. If people are
too squeamish to be personally responsible for the death of a rodent
they should call the professionals in.

Peter


author: Michael Saunby

subject: Re: Survival of relocated rodents

text:
"Peter Ashby" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

...

I've now found the advice of Animal Aid, again I suspect it is based on
their "gut feelings", rather than solid research, but even so, it seems to
reject the notion of long distance transportation. See
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/campaign/wildlife/visitors.htm

"Never call environmental health as their first action is always to
exterminate 'pests'."  - Probably not always legal, but never mind, AR
activism is meant to be a little "on the edge".

"Avoid locating bird feeders on window ledges can encourage rodents to
establish a territory close to your home" - Doesn't scan, but the meaning
is fairly clear. Sound advice I expect, they might even want to suggest
bringing feeders inside at night to avoid feeding rats.  But then to an AR
type feeding rats may be much the same as feeding birds. To regard one
species as good and another as bad (other than humans) would be a "bad
thing".

 "Although it may seem to defeat the purpose, it is best to release rodents
in the immediate area outside of your home. Taking rodents to an unnatural
environment such as the countryside (if they are a city rodent) is not a
good idea. As long as you are using the trap to remove rodents from inside
your house, whilst sealing any potential means of re-entry, you should
eventually have the problem under control." - meaning that if you repeat
the exercise enough times the poor little thing will go to a "better
place(tm)."

and

"Try to release them into a sheltered environment, such as under a garden
shed, where they will have some source of protection from any predators,
such as cats. "

Basically, they're doomed, but at least you won't have to handle a dead
mouse if you do it their way.

Michael Saunby


author: Ubiquitous

subject: Great Moments in Socialized Medicine

text:
"X Factor judge Simon Cowell showed his more generous side [yesterday]
when he gave ï¿½100,000 [about $160,000] to help save the life of a
cancer-stricken youngster," reports London's Daily Mail:

	The pop Svengali donated the money for 18-month-old Sophie
	Atay--from Birtley, Gateshead--to fly to the US for pioneering
	treatment at the Memorial Sloan Kettering Hospital in New
	York.

	He acted after learning the youngster's family launched a
	last-ditch appeal for ï¿½500,000 to pay for the treatment last
	week after they were told Sophie was suffering from a rare
	form of neuroblastoma and needed treatment within days.

	Alexandra Burke, last year's X Factor winner, broke the
	news to Sophie's mum Karine, 33, on the telephone today
	that Simon had now dipped into his own pocket to top up
	the total to the necessary amount.

Wait, we're confused! Why does a little English girl have to come all
the way to the U.S. to get medical care, and why does this Cowell fellow
have to pay for it? We thought Britain had free medical care!

But wait, another Daily Mail story reports on what happens to older
people who get cancer in Britain:

	Alarming research is showing that elderly cancer patients
	are missing out on the breakthroughs in chemotherapy and
	surgery that have dramatically improved the outcome of
	younger patients.

	In fact, up to 15,000 elderly people with cancer in the UK
	are dying prematurely every year when compared to the rest
	of Europe and the U.S., according to a report published by
	the North West Cancer Intelligence Service (NWCIS) which
	compiles cancer statistics. . . .

	A major concern is that the NHS Cancer Plan, introduced in
	2000 to improve cancer survival in the UK, has a cut-off
	point at 70. This results in hospitals having less interest
	in the elderly. "Yet half of all those diagnosed with cancer
	are over 70," says Dr Tony Moran, NWCIS research director.
	"It's an area that has been grossly neglected. . . ."

Yet according to former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, "In Britain, the
government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We've all
heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are
false."


subject: Great Moments in Socialized Medicine

text:
Europeans like to think of America as racked by street crime, and also as
neglecting its citizens' medical needs. But this story from London's Daily
Telegraph suggests there may be an element of projection in this stereotype:

	Nearly 170,000 violent incidents take place in England's NHS
	hospitals each year, data obtained under the Freedom of
	Information Act has revealed.

	Labour's laws on 24-hour drinking are being blamed for
	alcohol-fuelled violence in accident and emergency departments
	in particular.

	There have been several murders and rapes at hospitals in recent
	years and thousands of attacks annually involve the use of knives
	and other weapons.

	Almost one in four attacks results in injury, yet only a fraction
	of them are ever reported to the police.

	The statistics reveal the dangers that doctors, nurses, paramedics,
	patients and visitors face in our hospitals on a daily basis.

	Some hospital A & E [accident and emergency] departments have been
	described as "war zones" on a typical Friday or Saturday night.

Meanwhile, the Daily Mail reports that "the decision to designate patients as
'do not resuscitate' is falling to junior doctors in one in five cases, a
report has revealed":

	Usually a consultant should make the final decision--after
	talking to the family--in cases where elderly patients are
	not expected to survive.

	But senior doctors were involved in dealing with just one in
	three patients admitted to hospital shortly before dying, says
	the report from the National Confidential Enquiry into Patient
	Outcome and Death. . . .

	The findings come amid continuing controversy over elderly
	patients near the end of their lives being assigned to "death
	pathway" schemes.

	Experts claim doctors and nurses need more training in how
	to care for people who are dying, because wrong diagnoses
	can result in withdrawal of food and fluids when they might
	otherwise have survived.

Then again, according to former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, "In Britain, the
government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We've all heard
scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false."


subject: Great Moments in Socialized Medicine

text:
If women are discouraged from getting mammograms, as a U.S. government panel
recently advised, some will die, but at least others will be spared the
discomfort of getting mammograms. There isn't a similar upside to the
following decision by Britain's socialized medical system, described by
London's Daily Mail:

	Liver cancer sufferers are being condemned to an early death
	by being denied a new drug on the Health Service, campaigners warn.

	They criticised draft guidance that will effectively ban the
	drug sorafenib--which is routinely used in every other country
	where it is licensed.

	Trials show the drug, which costs ï¿½36,000 [about $60,000] a year,
	can increase survival by around six months for patients who have
	run out of options.

	The Government's rationing body, the National Institute for
	Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) said the overall cost
	was "simply too high" to justify the 'benefit to patients'.

Buck up, liver cancer sufferers! "In Britain, the government itself runs the
hospitals and employs the doctors," former Enron adviser Paul Krugman assures
you. "We've all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these
stories are false."


author: maria

subject: Re: Great Moments in Socialized Medicine

text:
Ubiquitous wrote:

As I see the debate about this matter, the difference will be that now,
you can decide if you want annual mammograms, or a particular test or
treatment and your doctor can order it for you, and under the right
circumstances, insurance will cover it.  The new mammogram reommendation
of this panel and others is only that, and their opinion - for now.
When this health insurance legislation passes, advisory boards, which
some Senators are calling the "rationers", opinions will carry decisive
weight and be used by whatever covrage system you are under to say you
cannot have such a test, or that if you do, they will not pay for it.
This then becomes a tug of war between what you and your docctor want
and what the government board says you can have.  I do not know if the
governing boards then punish a doctor for ordering tests that they do
not cover and that you have to pay for, or not, but the opponents of the
bill seem to think there are many mandatory sections that mean doctors
will be punished in some way for deviating from what the government
says.  The inherent issue with this is that we would be terrorized by
the government health system instead of aiding us.  Those of us in the
medicare system are used to having them pay very small sums to doctors,
hospitals, etc. and or not covering things, which means the secondary
insurance does not cover it.  So, that is what to expect when the
government takes over everyone's care.  The rationing boards created or
empowered by this bill will determine what we elderly can get and what
we cannot.  In addition, this bill would take a great deal of money out
of the medicare system in order to pay those who are promoting the bill
thru ads and lobbying, accordoing to a senator on the senate floor seen
on cspan today.  It is the worst piece of legislation ever to come on to
the floor of both houses.  It has got to be stopped.  Call your senator
or send him an email.  Go to his website under senate.gov and find their
email usually under 'contact' on your senator's website.  The main
problem is that the emails on this website will not take comments for
senators outside your state.  You have to put in an address and zip code
for it to go thru.  They do not want to hear from people outside their
state, but they want to force legislation on us that affects all of us.


author: Governor Swill

text:
maria <[email]> wrote:

That's how it was designed to work.

Swill


author: John F. Winston

subject: Did.

text:
Subject: Very Efficient Motor.                         April 2, 2004.

  In the past I've been very interested in f-ee energy motors and
had the opportunity to work a little with Joseph Cater.   He talked
about different types of fr-e energy motors and is truly a very
brilliant person in this area.  Here is some information about a
motor that is very efficient.

  In the past one of my teachers or wayshowers by the name of Earl
Gambrel (now dead) informed me that one of the big car makers in
Japan has a working, fully functional car that is equipped with
a f-ee energy engine.  They are being kept from putting it out
to the world by the powers that be.  Earl had a car that was a van
and it would get a large number of miles per gallon with the
carburetor system he had on it.  I don't know what happened to
that van when he died.

.....................................................................
.....................................................................

  From: P
  Subject: Japan- Inventor's breakthrough electric motor uses
permanent magnets to make power...
  http://www.japan.com/technology/index.php

                              TECHNOLOGY
  The Techno Maestro's  Amazing Machine
  Kohei Minato and the Japan Magnetic Fan Company
  A maverick inventor's breakthrough electric motor uses permanent
magnets to make power  --  and has investors salivating
  by John Dodd
  NEW! -- See video of motors working.
  When we first got the call from an excited colleague that he'd
just seen the most amazing invention -- a magnetic motor that
consumed almost no electricity -- we were so skeptical that we
declined an invitation to go see it. If the technology was so
good, we thought, how come they didn't have any customers yet?
  We forgot about the invitation and the company until several
months later, when our friend called again.
  "OK," he said. "They've just sold 40,000 units to a major
convenience store chain. Now will you see it?"
  In Japan, no one pays for 40,000 convenience store cooling fans
without being reasonably sure that they are going to work.
                       The Maestro
  The streets of east Shinjuku are littered with the tailings of
the many small factories and workshops still located there --
hardly one's image of the headquarters of a world-class technology
company. But this is where we are first greeted outside Kohei
Minato's workshop by Nobue Minato, the wife of the inventor and
co-director of the family firm.
  The workshop itself is like a Hollywood set of an inventor's
garage. Electrical machines, wires, measuring instruments and
batteries are strewn everywhere.
  Along the diagram-covered walls are drill presses, racks of
spare coils, Perspex plating and other paraphernalia. And seated in
the back, head bowed in thought, is the 58-year-old techno maestro
himself.
  Minato is no newcomer to the limelight. In fact, he has been an
entertainer for most of his life, making music and producing his
daughter's singing career in the US. He possesses an oversized
presence, with a booming voice and a long ponytail. In short, you
can easily imagine him onstage or in a convertible cruising down
the coast of California -- not hunched over a mass of wires and
coils in Tokyo's cramped backstreets.
  Joining us are a middle-aged banker and his entourage from Osaka
and accounting and finance consultant Yukio Funai. The banker is
doing a quick review for an investment, while the rest of us just
want to see if Minato's magnetic motors really work. A prototype
car air conditioner cooler sitting on a bench looks like it would
fit into a Toyota Corolla and quickly catches our attention.
  Seeing is believing

John Winston.   [email]

...........

Subject: Question From A Friend.                       April 3, 2004.

  Here is a question from a personal and Internet friend.

.....................................................................
.....................................................................

  From: D
  Subject: Discerning Truth
-------------------------------------
  Hi John,
  My question is this, how does one discern truth? How can we
recognize lies?
  What about all those areas in between where the person telling the
story believes it to be true buy may have some errors in some
details?
  Maybe you could do a posting on this. I was wondering what some
of your teachers had told you and where you stand on these matters
today.
  Thanks
  M

.............

  (JW  First of all, I think that it is an honor you to think I
could answer such questions.  I'll give it my best shot in answering
it.

  In the past I used to have a Guru, teacher or wayshower who taught
me a few years.  His name was Merele Fagot.  The last name sounds
rather funny because you might think he was a fagot which is a
rather undesirable person but he was really a gem.

  He started off by telling me that you have different areas in
your body which are sort of brain centers.  They can't exactly be
seen or weighed on a scale but they are there.  One is in the center
of your stomach area.  You next are given a book or some printed
material or facts.  You are then asked to take this book in your
hand and let the emanation of the book seep down through the top of
your head into the stomach area.  You then see what kind of a
feeling you get from the information.  If you get a wheezy, uneasy
feeling then the information is not true, not correct or is not for
you at the present time but may be OK for you at a later time.  Some
people may say it is like a woman's intuition or gut feeling and
that is correct.

  The next method is tuning into the guardian sp-rit that each
person has going along with them while they are on earth.  I was
introduced to my guardian an-el on the side of Mt. Shasta at a
place called Widow Spring by a ps-chic lady by the name of Nola
Vanvaler.  She said that my guardian a-gel's name is Lorna.  It
is neither male nor female but I usually refer to it as a female
because it's name sounds female.
  She is a very beautiful being.

  You might say that sounds like following your conscience and that
is correct.

  The last source of information is sp-ritual masters.  I doubt if
most people have one of these.  I was assigned one of them one year
at Widow Springs and his name is Jahiba.  He is a tall being and
wears a white robe with some gold ornament hanging down on the sides
of his turban.  The second one I've been given is called Jasper,
which I consider to be not a very nice name because some people
consider it to be a person who plays tricks on people.  These
masters are only interested in you good.  I probably have a bunch
of space people helping me too because sometimes I get the urge to
go find some one in a very far away place and it turns out that
they have made a request to the space people for them to send
someone to answer some questions for them.  When I answer their
questions then they say thank you and are satisfied.  One thing
you can say about me is that I'm not normal and sometime I don't
follow the direction that is given me and I get into real bad
trouble. You might say that this all sounds like being guided by
the person upstairs and that is true.

  I hope this will help you on you way.)

John Winston.   [email]


author: Pastor Eyesed

subject: Re: Did.

text:
"John F. Winston" wrote:

Yes seeing is believing except on the setup of a motor driving a
generator giving "more power output than power input" the old piano
player uses the correct RMS meters for the input but uses peak reading
meters for the output.
Wish I could find some of those gullible investors.
If  "the powers/them/they/big oil/etc" ever try to muzzle him they are
wasting their time.


author: Kilolani

subject: Re: Did.

text:
"John F. Winston" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

You are correct... and now that we've identified you, you're next.

Best wishes,

the powers that be


author: Edmond Wollmann

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Edmond Wollmann wrote:

I now withdraw from all interaction--internet or otherwise, astrological
work, astrological and metaphysical connections, and my past in every
way shape and form. I will release no more work or articles and one more
text--the revised version of my first.

Goodbye to all.

"I dreamt I dwelt in marble halls, with vassals and serfs at my side.
And of all who assembled within those halls, that I was their hope and
their pride.
I had riches all too great to count, and a high ancestral name.
But.....
I also dreamt ---which pleased me most---that you loved me still the
same...that you loved me, you loved me still the same---that you loved
me, you loved me stiiiiilllllllll the saaaaaaammmmeeee!" Enya


author: a

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
In article <[email]>,
Edmond Wollmann  <[email]> wrote:

"I am now going to remove this abuser completely from the internet."
  -- Edmond Wollmann


author: LectrikEd & son

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:41:28 GMT, Edmond Wollmann, that sucking,
fucking ass-licking murderous sonofabitching fourflushing asshole
licking toilet hound <[email]> wrote:

Don't let my foot hit you in the ass on the way out, abuser-boi.

LectrikEd & son


author: Sharyn

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article [email], Edmond Wollmann at
[email] wrote on 1/16/2002 12:41 PM:

<snip another shitty lyric I don't care about>

Bye Ed!!!!! Tanks for the memories!!!!!!

Well, what do you think? Is he going to the pokey, doing a complete
disappearing act to avoid the pokey, or doing away with himself?


author: Pete Phoenix

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Edmond Wollmann <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<[email]>...
Mercury
delineation
ego
the
empathic
doing
But
When
completely
that
many
astrological
more

Tatty-bye, Edmo <*belch*, *fart*>
parting is such sweet sorrow, and all that crap.
Say hi to Bernadette for me the next time you hear from her solicitor,
you plagiarising bugger.

--%-
Pete
"I, on the other hand, am a fully-rounded human being, with a degree
from the University of Life, a diploma from the School of Hard Knocks,
and three gold stars from the kindergarten of Getting The Shit Kicked
Out of Me"
~ Edmond Blackadder.


author: Edvins Augusts

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Edmond Wollmann wrote:

Looks like you didn't try very hard!

Nice whine, ya wussy. Now GET the fuck out and STAY the fuck out, shithead!


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
In article <[email]>,
Edmond Wollmann  <[email]> wrote:

SPNAK!

The crybaby runs away with a sympathy plea again.  What a kook.


author: Flagship1 of the Paranormal

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Re: Is there anyone left.....

[Groups Removed]
alt.paranet.ufo

Edmond Wollmann wrote:
[Snip]

I would recommend a more casual approach on usenet while placing
the majority of our concentration on posting the new articles at
your website. This is what I am doing with my Paranormal Research
Collection pages and they are posted there without the need of
worrying about the trolls and abusers. I do however still look
forward to your writings as you bring about a true essence of
inspiration to these NGs.


author: Richard Nolle

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Edmond Wollmann wrote:

Goodbye Edmond, and good luck to you.

-- Richard

http://www.astropro.com/
NetPager = http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1710868
phone/fax = 480-753-6261

"Astrology is about time . . . what else is there?"


author: That Wollmann Asshole

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Edmond Wollmann <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1!!!!

The PSF triumph once again! NCAT R00LS!!!!

Par-tay on!!!!!!!!1!!!!

SCHPANK!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course Edmo could be lying.


author: Cujo

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
[email] (a) wrote in news:S8_28.464$[email]:

Not completely, he netcopped me to the FBI yesterday. I'm on the lookout
for black helicopters the rest of the week.


author: you friend, enzo!

subject: Re: Famous Last Words

text:
Ci era musica e ballare quando Lou Minattiï¿½ <[email]>
ha cantato le canzoni di amore anale nel villaggio di
alt.astrology.metapsych:

http://www.daddezio.com/cemetery/junction/CJ-NM-NDX.html ?


subject: Re: Famous Last Words

text:
"Lou Minattiï¿½" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Bub bye!
Jo waves


author: NewAge Skeptic

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Sharyn wrote:

Could be he's recharging his kook batteries for his next rant fest,
although his website notice is rather dramatic.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Sharyn <[email]> wrote in news:[email]:

With who's money? Sure he did.

30, um 25, um 20 years of psychological counseling experience down the
tubes. Oh, the humanity!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, asshole!

He's getting committed to an asylum. It all fits. He finally did
something stupid enough for his relatives to finally do something about
him.

I hope Ed writes and lets us know the visiting hours.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
I believe he's got an old prop plane, which holds about 40-50 gallons
of gas-o-hol - and he's planning a "sky-skrapin" flight...

On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:05:55 -0500, Sharyn <[email]> wrote:


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article Hmp18.31050$[email], Pete
Phoenix at [email] wrote on 1/16/2002 7:59 PM:

LOL!


author: Death's Scarecrow

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...
[...]

	Let me get this straight: wonderful things will happen to him so he
quits?

ash
['Do what, fucknuts?']


author: Jim Phillips

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 [email] wrote:

	Let's not get our hopes up:

"For the sake of the newsgroup I am going to get off for good." Ed
Wollmann, 12/7/97

"If you wish to keep trying I am sure someone will. I am leaving town."
Ed Wollmann, 4/2/98

"Cencorship continues, so here's my last post" - Ed Wollmann, 3/18/99

"I am no longer posting and all messages you see are forgeries." Ed
Wollmann, 5/26/99

"I am permanently off usenet as of 7/20/99" --Ed Wollmann

"I am permanently off usenet as of  7/29/99" - Ed Wollmann

"I really have a lot of contructive things to do. This is complete and
utter dis-integrity. Bye." - Ed Wollmann, 1/7/00


author: Mr. Sweetness & Light

subject: I love the smell of burning kook in the morning! Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Goatfucker1 of the Abnormal wrote in message
<[email]>...

I'd recommend you check out the website, moron.  He's shutting it down.
There's even a message to that effect.

Save the suck-up routine for the other kooks. He's gone. He's been defeated.
Get used to it.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Flagship1 of the Paranormal wrote:

Did you mean to write 'the essence of perspiration'?

Hey Flaggy! Now you can concentrate your nose in between Kettler's butt
cheeks.


author: DrPostman

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:57:01 GMT, Flagship1 of the Paranormal <[email]>
in accordance with the prophecy wrote:

Eddie could care less about your recommendations. Go look at
his web site.  He is leaving and shutting them down.  Kaput.

And totally without any content.  No one is posting there.  Your
attempt to control is a failure.

You just don't get it, do you?  He is leaving and shutting down
his web pages.  Granted, he has lied about that in the past
but that would be a worse alternative for you to consider.

Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD;    "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULTï¿½ member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: jamie_eckles(at)hotmail.com

"Sue the spandex pants off of them. And not just for the hundred thousand
dollar kick back I will be recieving for introducing you to my lawyer.
Do it for the thank you sex I will administer thereafter."
     -Batmanuel


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
That Wollmann Asshole wrote:

Its been known to happen and not just about leaving.


author: Ross

subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Cujo <[email]> wrote in
<Xns919D902E146D4cujothewollkookkille@209.249.90.101>:

What??  He actually called the FBI?  Those guys play at a totally different
level than a simple abuse department and they are capable of Excalibur-like
blows beyond Eddie's imagination.

R.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article [email], NewAge Skeptic at
[email] wrote on 1/16/2002 7:18 PM:

Yeah, that's a new one.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article a2554b$m8v$[email], That Wollmann Asshole
at [email] wrote on 1/16/2002 7:16 PM:

Could very well be. Or maybe he is just skipping out on all the trouble
that's howling at his door (Brady, EL, licensing board, loans, etc.).


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Sharyn <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Asshole
news:[email]:
Mercury
2/3/11)--rather
and
my
the
about
trouble

Well, you know that last New Moon hit his 6th house Cappy Moon smack on,
and it rules his 12th of "self-undoing".
I think all his karma has come to chew on his arse, and he's doing a
runner.

-%-
Pete
"I, on the other hand, am a fully-rounded human being, with a degree
from the University of Life, a diploma from the School of Hard Knocks,
and three gold stars from the kindergarten of Getting The Shit Kicked
Out of Me"
~ Edmond Blackadder.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article Pzp18.31135$[email], Pete
Phoenix at [email] wrote on 1/16/2002 8:13 PM:

Hmm...forgot about that.

Hey, does anyone have the dates of his "disappearances" from usenet handy?

Could be.


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
Sharyn wrote:

Frog2 and Lou Minatti posted them earlier. Here's the ID:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=3C45DADE.74F1%40nospam.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2B%2522Re:%2BFamous%2BLast%2BWords%2522%2Bgroup:alt.astrology%2Bauthor:lou%2Bauthor:minatti%26hl%3Den%26selm%3D3C45DADE.74F1%2540nospam.com%26rnum%3D1


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article [email], NewAge Skeptic at
[email] wrote on 1/16/2002 9:08 PM:

<snip>

Thanks, Sandy, missed those somehow. :)


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
NewAge Skeptic wrote:

Sorry, it wass only Lou. Here's a quicker link

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22I+am+permanently+off+usenet%22+group:alt.astrology+author:lou+author:minatti&hl=en&selm=3C45DADE.74F1%40nospam.com&rnum=1

Sandy

----------------------------------------
The ignorant reach erroneous conclusions
and make unfortunate choices, and their
incompetence robs them of the ability to
realize it. - Kruger
----------------------------------------


subject: Re: Is there anyone left.....

text:
in article [email], NewAge Skeptic at
[email] wrote on 1/16/2002 9:26 PM:

s'ok, I got them, thanks.


author: Phil Stovell

subject: Road victim, 12, had smoked cannabis

text:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1286004,00.html

Road victim, 12, had smoked cannabis

Mark Oliver
Thursday August 19, 2004
The Guardian

A 12-year-old boy who was killed crossing a busy road had been smoking cannabis
that had probably left him disorientated, an inquest heard yesterday.

Pearce Randle of Alvaston, Derbyshire, was playing tag with friends when he was
hit by a car as the group crossed a dual carriageway.

Andrew Hitchcock of the Derbyshire Royal Infirmary said the boy had probably
been under the effects of the class C drug.

Dr Hitchcock, who carried out the postmortem examination, said: "On the balance
of probability, this young man was under the acute effects of cannabis. It's
probable that he was suffering from one or two forms of impediment which would
have impaired his ability to react in an emergency situation, such as avoiding
contact with a moving vehicle."

Pearce and his friends had been returning from Elvaston Castle, where they had
been playing and smoking cannabis on May 7 this year, Derby coroner's court
heard.

They were bored and decided to continue the game on a housing estate near a
dual carriageway, deciding to cross the road instead of using a footbridge.

The car's driver said she had not seen Pearce until after the collision.

The coroner, Peter Ashworth, returned a verdict of accidental death.


author: Delta Nine

subject: Re: Road victim, 12, had smoked cannabis

text:
Phil Stovell wrote:

Speculation and propaganda, gotta love it.

Riiight.  And sober people never get hit by cars.  I see plenty of
idiots jaywalking across divided highways all the time, does that mean
they're all high?

Fools.

Then she should have paid better attention.


author: Mike Z. Helm

text:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:53:16 GMT, Delta Nine
<[email]>

I think the person who wrote this article was "disorientated".


author: Dixie Normos

subject: finish it ...

text:
... hmmm, i was just watching the OMEN and it hit me. [i was not in a
violent mood so i didn't hit back. i did give it a warning tho.] it was
the FATHER who became posessed. but why? why not one of the kids.

... then we would have some fun!!! imagine a posessed kid, the mother
goes to give him a bath. the kid ends up raping the mother. they keep it
their little secret. 9 months later a child is born. they name it pete.

... pete goes to school. [oh forgot, not his real name]. pete ends ip
raping his teacher.[oh shit, the fun has begun] pete also castrates his
father AND saves the penis! which in itself is posessed AND [somebody
finish this, even pete]

--
b
ï¿½County library? Reference desk, please. Hello? Yes, I need a word
definition. Well, that's the problem. I don't know how to spell it and
I'm not allowed to say it. Could you just rattle off all the swear words
you know and I'll stop you when...Hello?ï¿½  Calvin and Hobbes

"5 out of 4 people have trouble with fractions."
** If the Irish ruled the world speech would be more colorful.

ï¿½Intelligent is before you answer the question
smart is after you get it right.ï¿½


author: Gingerbread Man

subject: Re: finish it ...

text:
On Feb 12, 4:55 pm, Dixie Normos <[email]> wrote:

It was because the


subject: Re: finish it ...

text:
On Feb 12, 4:55 pm, Dixie Normos <[email]> wrote:

ip raping?! you failed second grade ... imaginary beelzibub.

for anyone just joining, chevyn's head has been latched onto by a
green pudding apparatus, and now some idiot is holding the reins and
is posting as him.  This gouy does not care about us ... as he has
obviously shown by his unwillingness to spend any time learning our
customs.


author: kangarooistan

subject: Please dump your tin cans into the ocean ASAP , check out the pics

text:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/redbird-scrap.html

Why mess about , dump anything made of iron into the oceans ASAP and
cure global warming and food shortage for FREE

kangarooistan
============

Iron fertilization

An oceanic phytoplankton bloom in the South Atlantic Ocean, off the
coast of Argentina covering an area about 300 miles by 50 miles

Iron fertilization is the intentional introduction of iron to the
upper ocean to increase the marine food chain and to sequester carbon
dioxide from the atmosphere [1]. It involves encouraging the growth of
marine phytoplankton blooms by physically distributing microscopic
iron particles in otherwise nutrient-rich, but iron-deficient blue
ocean waters. An increasing number of ocean labs, scientists and
businesses are exploring it as a means to revive declining plankton
populations, restore healthy levels of marine productivity and/or
sequester millions of tons of CO2 to slow down global warming. Since
1993, ten international research teams have completed relatively small-
scale ocean trials demonstrating the effect.


subject:
Re: Please dump your tin cans into the ocean ASAP , check out the
	pics , 607 whales agree only an abo could cure global warming and feed to
	world for free using old tin cans

text:
On Aug 2, 7:33 pm, kangarooistan <[email]> wrote:

Scientists discover massive humpback whale nursery off WA coast.

"Undoubtedly the Kimberley is one of the last true marine wildernesses
in the world" it gets iron rich run off water after floods wash the
iron dust into the ocean

Exactly as kanga predicted when floods wased iron into the ocean and
set off a feeding frenzie based on algae

Algae will feed the world and cure global warming and produce enough
bio fuel to run the planet if only people will drop their used tin
cans into the ocean it would save the planet for free in weeks

save the whales and the planet for free , if they wont we must
throw all your used tin cans into the sea ASAP , preferably out where
they will be out of sight

The government wont save the planet  or the whales
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kangarooistan <[email]>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 03:47:08 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 15 2008 7:47 pm
Subject: Watch this flood for 3 months ,as a massive " iron
fertilization " experiment
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Updated Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:07pm AEST

Slideshow: Photo 1 of 3
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/12/2332256.htm
Huge numbers of humpback whales spotted in the Kimberley.

Researchers spotted pregnant whales, whales with young calves and bull
whales. (WA Marine Science Institution)

One of the world's biggest humpback whale nursery grounds has been
discovered off the coast of Western Australia's Kimberley region.

The Western Australian Marine Science Institution said 607 humpback
whales were sighted in one of the Kimberley's largest bays, Camden
Sound, within a week.

"We believe it surpasses the number found in the Carribean's Silver
Banks region, which is usually listed as one of the world's main
humpback whale nursery grounds," he said.

Dr Blake said the movement of pregnant whales, whales with young
calves and bulls into the Camden Sound region was 'astonishing.'

On the last day of the study 51 whales passed the observation site in
two-and-a-half hours, more than 20 whales in one hour.

The average number of whales seen each hour was about 9.

"The highlight of the trip for me was seeing a whale calf practising
breaching, jumping out of the water every 30-seconds or so for five
minutes under the watchful eye of its mother," he said.

"Undoubtedly the Kimberley is one of the last true marine wildernesses
in the world"

Dr Blake has called for more investment into regional research in the
Kimberley.

Tags: environment, oceans-and-reefs, human-interest, animals,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/12/2332256.htmwa,
broome-6725, karrath

============================================
: Watch this flood for 3 months ,as a massive " iron fertilization "
experiment

Newsgroups: aus.politics, can.politics, uk.politics.misc, us.politics,
talk.politics.mideast
From: kangarooistan <[email]>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 03:47:08 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 15 2008 7:47 pm
Subject: Watch this flood for 3 months ,as a massive " iron
fertilization " experiment

http://groups.google.com.au/group/aus.politics/browse_thread/thread/e...

Truckies plucked from floods
r Mail, Australia - 58 minutes ago
A QUEENSLAND truck driver is one of two who has to be rescued from the
roof of their rigs in raging floodwaters in Western Australia.

Watch this flood for 3 months ,as a massive " iron fertilization " of
sea water ...

You too will then KNOW how to save the world from global warming AND
food shortage

kangarooistan
==========
This is just breaking news , I will try and find the follow up stories
and post them

I know what will happen

The extra iron enters the sea and a vast algae bloom attracts vast
amounts of giant sea creatures as they vacuum up vast amounts of algae
prawns and other life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningaloo_Marine_Park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_shark
Distribution and habitat

The whale shark inhabits the world's tropical and warm-temperate
oceans. While thought to be primarily pelagic, seasonal feeding
aggregations of the sharks occur at several coastal sites such as
Ningaloo Reef in Western Australia;
============================================
WATCH THIS VAST IRON FERTILIZATION EVENT

River rescue praise
Updated: 19:40, Sunday June 15, 2008

A cattle farmer is being praised for his actions after performing a
dangerous rescue in Western Australia's Pilbara region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilbara

Geoff Mills saved two truck drivers trapped in rising flood waters,
using his jet ski.

The drivers had tried to cross a swollen river at night near Marble
Bar, when they hit the wall of water.
=============================================

save the whales and the planet for free
throw all your used tin cans into the sea

From: kangarooistan <[email]>
Newsgroups:
aus.politics,can.politics,uk.politics.misc,us.politics,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Watch this flood for 3 months ,as a massive " iron
fertilization "
        experiment
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 03:47:08 -0700 (PDT)


subject:
Re: Please dump your tin cans into the ocean ASAP , check out the
	pics

text:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/redbird-scrap.html

Why mess about , dump anything made of iron into the oceans ASAP and
cure global warming and food shortage for FREE

kangarooistan
============

Iron fertilization

An oceanic phytoplankton bloom in the South Atlantic Ocean, off the
coast of Argentina covering an area about 300 miles by 50 miles

Iron fertilization is the intentional introduction of iron to the
upper ocean to increase the marine food chain and to sequester carbon
dioxide from the atmosphere [1]. It involves encouraging the growth of
marine phytoplankton blooms by physically distributing microscopic
iron particles in otherwise nutrient-rich, but iron-deficient blue
ocean waters. An increasing number of ocean labs, scientists and
businesses are exploring it as a means to revive declining plankton
populations, restore healthy levels of marine productivity and/or
sequester millions of tons of CO2 to slow down global warming. Since
1993, ten international research teams have completed relatively
small-
scale ocean trials demonstrating the effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization


text:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/redbird-scrap.html

 Why mess about , dump anything made of iron into the oceans ASAP and
 cure global warming and food shortage for FREE

http://njscuba.net/reefs/index.html
An artificial reef is any man-made object placed in the sea as a
habitat for marine organisms. Sea life is drawn like a magnet to any
large object in the otherwise featureless bottom sand. Almost anything
will do,.

The objective of artificial reefs is to create hard structure habitat
for mussels, Sea Bass, Blackfish,  lobster and many other species of
marine life. Once fish and shellfish establish themselves in their new
homes - and it doesn't take long - the reefs produce excellent catches
of fish for anglers and provide underwater attractions for scuba
divers.

 kangarooistan
 ============

 Iron fertilization

 An oceanic phytoplankton bloom in the South Atlantic Ocean, off the
 coast of Argentina covering an area about 300 miles by 50 miles

 Iron fertilization is the intentional introduction of iron to the
 upper ocean to increase the marine food chain and to sequester carbon
 dioxide from the atmosphere [1]. It involves encouraging the growth
of
 marine phytoplankton blooms by physically distributing microscopic
 iron particles in otherwise nutrient-rich, but iron-deficient blue
ocean waters. An increasing number of ocean labs, scientists and
 businesses are exploring it as a means to revive declining plankton
 populations, restore healthy levels of marine productivity and/or
 sequester millions of tons of CO2 to slow down global warming. Since
 1993, ten international research teams have completed relatively
small-
 scale ocean trials demonstrating the effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization


text:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/redbird-scrap.html

Why mess about , dump anything made of iron into the oceans ASAP and
cure global warming and food shortage for FREE

kangarooistan
============

Anything made out of Iron will increase fish 1000 tmes and suck up
massive amounts of carbon dioxide for free , it will cure global
warming as well as feed the world , while using a waste product

After decades of tests its very clear that ANYTHING made of iron is
amazing fish magnet

Artificial Reef Locations

Courtesy of Ports Corp, South Australia

PIRSA Fisheries & Acquaculture has installed several artificial reefs
to provide new fish habitats. These reefs increase the number of fish
available to fishers and provide a focus for recreational divers.

Two types of reefs have been installed. One is a tyre module reef of
unique design. These modules were designed by the South Australian
Research and Development Institute, each of which consists of 28 used
car tyres strapped together into a tetrahedron and ballasted with
concrete.

 The other type of artificial reef consists of redundant barges or
dredges. These were towed to selected sites and scuttled.

Notes:

    * Artificial Reefs may be marked with a yellow buoy or a radar
reflector.
    * WGS 84 satellite navigational systems (GPS) require an
adjustment in position of 0.08 minutes SOUTHWARD and 0.08 minutes
WESTWARD to agree with the AGD 66 coordinates listed below.
    * The barge at Ardrossan has been provided as an alternative
fishing spot to the Zanoni historic wreck site (where entry is banned
within 550 metres of the buoy marking the wreck). The artificial reef
is located one nautical mile south of the Zanoni.
    * The use of nets or setlines is PROHIBITED within 500 metres of
all artificial reefs.

Location        Type    Position (AGD 66)       Comments
Ardrossan       Hopper Barge
South
East    34
138     31
03      009
007
        Least reduced depth over wreck is 10.1m
Giles Point     Tyre Modules
South
East    35
137     02
47      008
004

Kingscote       Tyre Modules
South
East    35
137     41
40      002
002

Pt. Augusta     Tyre Modules
South
East    32
137     40
45      000
008

Pt. Broughton   Car Bodies
South
East    33
137     33
51      000
004

Pt. Germein     Pipes
South
East    33
137     03
59      007
008

Pt. Lincoln     Sunken Vessel
South
East    34
135     41
52      000
004

Pt. Neill       Sunken Vessel
South
East    34
136     06
22      007
006

Pt. Pirie       Tyre Modules
South
East    33
137     05
54      002
003

Wallaroo        Tyre Modules
South
East    33
137     51
34      005
003

Whyalla Tyre Modules
South
East    32
137     58
46      001
009

Whyalla
South
East    32
137     59
47      007
001

Whyalla
South
East    33
137     06
36      003
003


text:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/redbird-scrap.html

Why mess about , dump anything made of iron into the oceans ASAP and
cure global warming and food shortage for FREE

kangarooistan
============

Anything made out of Iron will increase fish 1000 tmes and suck up
massive amounts of carbon dioxide for free , it will cure global
warming as well as feed the world , while using a waste product

After decades of tests its very clear that ANYTHING made of iron is
amazing fish magnet

Artificial Reef Locations

Courtesy of Ports Corp, South Australia

PIRSA Fisheries & Acquaculture has installed several artificial reefs
to provide new fish habitats. These reefs increase the number of fish
available to fishers and provide a focus for recreational divers.

Two types of reefs have been installed. One is a tyre module reef of
unique design. These modules were designed by the South Australian
Research and Development Institute, each of which consists of 28 used
car tyres strapped together into a tetrahedron and ballasted with
concrete.

 The other type of artificial reef consists of redundant barges or
dredges. These were towed to selected sites and scuttled.

Notes:

    * Artificial Reefs may be marked with a yellow buoy or a radar
reflector.
    * WGS 84 satellite navigational systems (GPS) require an
adjustment in position of 0.08 minutes SOUTHWARD and 0.08 minutes
WESTWARD to agree with the AGD 66 coordinates listed below.
    * The barge at Ardrossan has been provided as an alternative
fishing spot to the Zanoni historic wreck site (where entry is banned
within 550 metres of the buoy marking the wreck). The artificial reef
is located one nautical mile south of the Zanoni.
    * The use of nets or setlines is PROHIBITED within 500 metres of
all artificial reefs.

Location        Type    Position (AGD 66)       Comments
Ardrossan       Hopper Barge
South
East    34
138     31
03      009
007
        Least reduced depth over wreck is 10.1m
Giles Point     Tyre Modules
South
East    35
137     02
47      008
004

Kingscote       Tyre Modules
South
East    35
137     41
40      002
002

Pt. Augusta     Tyre Modules
South
East    32
137     40
45      000
008

Pt. Broughton   Car Bodies
South
East    33
137     33
51      000
004

Pt. Germein     Pipes
South
East    33
137     03
59      007
008


text:
kangarooistan wrote:

 http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/redbird-scrap.html

 Why mess about , dump anything made of iron into the oceans ASAP and
 cure global warming and food shortage for FREE

http://njscuba.net/reefs/index.html
An artificial reef is any man-made object placed in the sea as a
habitat for marine organisms. Sea life is drawn like a magnet to any
large object in the otherwise featureless bottom sand. Almost anything
will do,.

The objective of artificial reefs is to create hard structure habitat
for mussels, Sea Bass, Blackfish,  lobster and many other species of
marine life. Once fish and shellfish establish themselves in their new
homes - and it doesn't take long - the reefs produce excellent catches
of fish for anglers and provide underwater attractions for scuba
divers.

 kangarooistan
 ============
 Iron fertilization

 An oceanic phytoplankton bloom in the South Atlantic Ocean, off the
 coast of Argentina covering an area about 300 miles by 50 miles

 Iron fertilization is the intentional introduction of iron to the
 upper ocean to increase the marine food chain and to sequester carbon
 dioxide from the atmosphere [1]. It involves encouraging the growth
of
 marine phytoplankton blooms by physically distributing microscopic
 iron particles in otherwise nutrient-rich, but iron-deficient blue
ocean waters. An increasing number of ocean labs, scientists and
 businesses are exploring it as a means to revive declining plankton
 populations, restore healthy levels of marine productivity and/or
 sequester millions of tons of CO2 to slow down global warming. Since
 1993, ten international research teams have completed relatively
small-
 scale ocean trials demonstrating the effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization


text:
On Aug 1, 10:13 pm, 10x <10x@teluös.net> wrote:

Anything made out of Iron will increase fish 1000 tmes and suck up
massive amounts of carbon dioxide for free , it will cure global
warming as well as feed the world , while using a waste product

After decades of tests its very clear that ANYTHING made of iron is
amazing fish magnet

Artificial Reef Locations

Courtesy of Ports Corp, South Australia

PIRSA Fisheries & Acquaculture has installed several artificial reefs
to provide new fish habitats. These reefs increase the number of fish
available to fishers and provide a focus for recreational divers.

Two types of reefs have been installed. One is a tyre module reef of
unique design. These modules were designed by the South Australian
Research and Development Institute, each of which consists of 28 used
car tyres strapped together into a tetrahedron and ballasted with
concrete.

 The other type of artificial reef consists of redundant barges or
dredges. These were towed to selected sites and scuttled.

Notes:

    * Artificial Reefs may be marked with a yellow buoy or a radar
reflector.
    * WGS 84 satellite navigational systems (GPS) require an
adjustment in position of 0.08 minutes SOUTHWARD and 0.08 minutes
WESTWARD to agree with the AGD 66 coordinates listed below.
    * The barge at Ardrossan has been provided as an alternative
fishing spot to the Zanoni historic wreck site (where entry is banned
within 550 metres of the buoy marking the wreck). The artificial reef
is located one nautical mile south of the Zanoni.
    * The use of nets or setlines is PROHIBITED within 500 metres of
all artificial reefs.

Location	Type	Position (AGD 66)	Comments
Ardrossan	Hopper Barge
South
East	34
138	31
03	009
007
	Least reduced depth over wreck is 10.1m
Giles Point	Tyre Modules
South
East	35
137	02
47	008
004

Kingscote	Tyre Modules
South
East	35
137	41
40	002
002

Pt. Augusta	Tyre Modules
South
East	32
137	40
45	000
008

Pt. Broughton	Car Bodies
South
East	33
137	33
51	000
004

Pt. Germein	Pipes
South
East	33
137	03
59	007
008

Pt. Lincoln	Sunken Vessel
South
East	34
135	41
52	000
004

Pt. Neill	Sunken Vessel
South
East	34
136	06
22	007
006

Pt. Pirie	Tyre Modules
South
East	33
137	05
54	002
003

Wallaroo	Tyre Modules
South
East	33
137	51
34	005
003

Whyalla	Tyre Modules
South
East	32
137	58
46	001
009

Whyalla
South
East	32
137	59
47	007
001

Whyalla
South
East	33
137	06
36	003
003


author: Raymond Karczewski

text:
A CHRIST SPEAKS:  Just How Dumb Does America have to Be?

wolf 64.251.130.42

Raymond Karczewski ([email]) wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2007 14:36

w: > Are you a US traitor?

w: > As a vietnam vet I resent the fact that you think it was wrong to
bomb NVN. You probably would have perfered that more US soldiers died.
If you are not a US citizen then I will tolerate you words, but if you
are a citizen of this great nation, then your traitor lips can kiss my
patriotic ass..........wolf

rk:  wolf, you miss an important point. North Vietnam did not INVADE
OUR LAND, AMERICA.  It was  YOU AND MANY OTHER MIND CONTROLLED
GOVERNMENT ISSUE (GI) CANNON FODDER WHO WERE THE INVADERS of their
land and of their way of life.

rk:  They, the North Vietnamese, like todays Iraqis, Afganistanis, and
Iranians, were merely defending themselves and their homeland from an
invading force.  Does that not make you STUPID to not see that, even
after the passing of these many years.

rk:  No wolf, TIME DOES NOT HEAL STUPIDITY, for many mind controlled,
emotionally unstable yahoos like yourself, in time, only DEATH DOES.

rk:  The same goes for IRAQ AND IRAN today.  AMERICAN fighting
soldiers have no business crossing the oceans to KILL OTHERS because
they, the American fighting force is too damn dumb to know they're
fighting in order for American Corporations to steal their rightful
Natural Resources, their oil.  All this, they do while OUR OWN COUNTRY
IS BEING INVADED AND DESTROYED BY OPEN BORDER POLICIES.

rk:  JUST HOW DUMB DO AMERICANS LIKE YOU HAVE TO BE BEFORE YOU GET THE
POINT??


subject: Re: A CHRIST SPEAKS: Just How Dumb Does America have to Be?

text:
Before blaming the soldiers, one should realize that soldiers just
like private citizens are blinded to the real truth of what is going
on and this by their own governmental leaders and their religious
leaders. So lets not just call the kettle black when the majority of
soldiers are trying to do their best with the risk of death and of
being lame.

People just do not realize the power, wealth and control that the
Vatican has through out the planet. Do you think that all Presidents,
Kings and Queens bow and kiss the ring of  the Catholic Pope for
nothing.

The multi trillion empire that the Vatican has and aided by its
powerful Jesuits through out the world, who have  infiltrated all
earthly governments and with its  military arm, such as the Knights of
Malta, run the world. They have done this for centuries and since 575
AD.

People do not realize the power of the Vatican in manipulating and
using the 300 Elite families owns and  control the global corporations
and who are running the world.
People do not realize the power of the Vatican in using societies such
as the CFR, the Freemasons Skulls and Bones and all other Illuminati
and Zionist societies and who are all together in concert for the
advancement and cause of a One-World Order with a One World Religious
leader.

Like other empires and civilizations that fell in the past, the United
States of America is the next one targeted and it will be brought down
and this also from within.

Wake up folks 911, was the catalyst to have this happened and was
created from within with the help of certain of its past and present
governmental leaders who are traitors to the USA and its constitution.
Why could coup d'états be brought within its leaders  in other
countries but not in the USA.

These leaders with this agenda where put in place and this since a
long time. The United States is one of the last bastion and is one of
the last blockage in some sort of an  up coming  world wide
communistic capitalist government run by the elite who owns all  the
global corporations and will eventually micro chip the human race.

Like it or not the planet is being slave in,  while these Elite global
Worldwide leaders will continue side by side with the Vatican to
create  wars, install false terrorists, creat  up evils, climatic
changes with also the goal to illuminate  4 billion people on earth.
Have they not wipe out hundreds of millions of people in the last few
centuries.

This  process is so big that it cannot be stop, just like now, no one
is able to stop Bush's  madness because he is just like many  a pond
control by higher sources leading the world into a global village.

The greed and obsession to put in place a one world religion with the
Vatican Pope as the temporal and spiritual leader  over all kings,
presidents and rule the world is nothing new under the sun.
In the past  with the Catholic Inquisitions millions have died by the
hands of the Vatican and  the Jesuits. The Jewish Holocaust was
created by the Vatican ,Jesuits and the Zionists and this for their
common goals.
Like before they want to bring down nations, cause several world wide
wars and revolutions because of their thirst to conquer the whole
planet and have it under it's thumb.

The Koran, Mohammed and Islam were a Vatican creation in order to have
them eventually exterminate themselves the Jews and eventually uproot
the Jews from Israel. The Vatican wants to control Israel and rule the
world from Jerusalem on the Temple Mount. Eventually the Muslims
mosques will be blown up by  Vatican Jesuits  Orders to send off the
last blow.
The  Vatican would love to see millions of Muslims and Jews die by
war, confrontations and perhaps by a few nuclear bombs. Their goal is
still to want want to evangelize everyone to Jesus Christ and to
Catholic dogmas and doctrines at any costs.There is no sin in killing
For Jesus  Chirst in their doctrine. Lets face it they did not even
excommunicate Hitler. That should ring a bell.

China, Russia, Zionists  and the  Moslems are all Vatican manipulated
ponds towards  first the destruction of the United State and its
democracy and second the destruction and take over of Israel. They
want to wipe out all the Heretics that is the Protestants, Jews,
Muslims and also the liberal Catholics.

The Vatican and the Jesuits help to put in place Hitler. Hitler's
Mein Kampt, had even a ghost writer and was influenced  by a Jesuit.

Just like Cardinal Francis Spellman, the archbishop of New York
brought the USA  into the Vietnam war in order to kill  millions of
Buddhist who had  President John Kennedy knock off because the later
opposed the Vatican agenda,  this time around  this present Cardinal
in New York is working hand in hand with Bush to the fall of the
United States democracy and constitution. Soon the USA Canada and
Mexico will be one just like the European Union. The world will be
divided in 4 regions and all this rule by one world wide religion.

Soldiers just like ordinary citizens are hidden of the real
masquerade. Soldiers past and present are conned in  believing
curtains ideologies . Many are sacrificial victims without even
knowing what they are really fighting for.

According to Avro Manhattan war journalist, the war in Vietnam was
fought because the Vatican wanted to create a power base in Southeast
Asia from which to take over all of Southeast Asia and then all of
Asia.

The following quotes are from this same book.

Ho Chi Minh began before World War Two to maneuver for a communist
Vietnam. He received help from the U.S. against the Japanese but used
that aid to consolidate his hold on the highlands of Tonkin. In
August, 1945 he marched into Hanoi and set up the provisional
government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. A master strategist,
he cooperated in the transplanting of nearly a million Catholic North
Vietnamese into the South...After the election of Pope John the 23rd in
1958 and the turn of the Vatican from the Cold War toward cooperation
with Marxism, Ho Chi Minh made a secret deal with Pope John which
eventually led to full control of the country by the North. - Ibid. p.
177.

President Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam was a practicing Catholic who
ruled South Vietnam with an iron fist. He was a genuine believer in
the evil of Communism and the uniqueness of the Catholic Church. He
had originally been planted in the presidency by Cardinal Spellman and
Pope Pius the 12th. He transformed the presidency into a virtual
Catholic dictatorship, ruthlessly crushing his religious and political
opponents. Many Buddhist monks committed suicide by fire, burning
themselves alive in protest against his religious persecutions. His
discriminatory persecution of non-Catholics, particularly Buddhists,
caused the disruption of the government and mass desertions in the
army. This eventually led to U.S. military intervention in South
Vietnam.

In this terrorization he was aided by his two Catholic brothers, the
Chief of the Secret Police and the Archbishop of Hue. - Ibid. p. 56,
(emphasis added).

Cardinal Francis Spellman, the archbishop of New York, was the key man
that brought America into the conflict.

He was active in persuading the U.S. to select Diem and support him as
president of South Vietnam. He was made Vicar General of the U.S.
Armed Forces and called the GIs the 'Soldiers of Christ' [meaning
soldiers for the Catholic Church] in his frequent visits to the
Vietnam war front. - Ibid. p. 71.

The Vatican played both sides against each other in this Vietnamese
Civil War. They controlled Diem in the South while advising and making
secret deals with Ho Chi Minh in the North. Thus, however the war
turned out, the Vatican would triumph and have control in Vietnam.
President Kennedy's attempt to halt the bloodbath incurred the undying
wrath of the instigators of the war - the Jesuits of the papacy.

President Kennedy began to de-escalate America's involvement in
Vietnam shortly before his death. The day after his brutal murder, the
following occurred:

At 8:30 a.m., Saturday, the 23rd of November, 1963, the limousine
carrying CIA director John McCone pulled into the White House
grounds.... He was also there to transact one piece of business prior to
becoming involved in all the details entailed in a presidential
transition - the signing of National Security Memorandum 278, a
classified document which immediately reversed John Kennedy's decision
to de-escalate the war in Vietnam. The effect of Memorandum 278 would
give the Central Intelligence Agency carte blanche to proceed with a
full-scale war in the Far East.... In effect, as of November 23, 1963,
the Far East would replace Cuba as the thorn in America's side. It
would also create a whole new source of narcotics for the Mafia's
worldwide markets. - Robert Morrow, First Hand Knowledge, Shapolsky
Publishers, p. 249.

The day after Kennedy was killed, the decision to stop America's
involvement in Vietnam was reversed and the Vatican's program
continued.

Morrow's statement also revealed another reason for the Jesuits
wanting to continue the war; they would make billions of dollars in
the international drug trade. For the last four centuries, the Jesuits
had been involved in the Far East drug trade and they certainly did
not want to lose this opportunity, even if it meant the lives of
millions of people!

Since the original Jesuit mission had established itself in Beijing in
1601, the Society of Jesus [the Jesuits] had held the key to the Far
East Trade - including the drug trade. - assorted authors, Dope, Inc.:
The Book that Drove Kissenger Crazy, Executive Intelligence Review, p.
117, (emphasis added).

The Jesuit controlled politicians in Washington wanted to continue the
war in Vietnam. They wanted to create a Catholic power in Southeast
Asia. They wanted to maintain their control of the international drug
market that they had held for 400 years in the Far East. When
President Kennedy stood in their way, he had to be removed. The
Jesuits had John Kennedy assassinated.

The second reason for Kennedy's assassination was his intention to
eliminate the Federal Reserve. Colonel James Gritz explains,

On Feb 1, 12:32 am, [email] (Raymond Karczewski) wrote:

On Feb 1, 12:32 am, [email] (Raymond Karczewski) wrote:


author: Bush Puppet Regime

subject: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
Isn't it obvious?  Bush let him get away with it and he escorted all
of his family members out of the country before they could be
questioned, somthing smells fishy here and it ain't because Bin Laden
hasn't showered in years.


author: Ray

subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
<< From: [email]  (Bush Puppet Regime) >>

<< Isn't it obvious?  Bush let him get away with it and he escorted all
of his family members out of the country before they could be
questioned, somthing smells fishy here and it ain't because Bin Laden
hasn't showered in years. >>

Isn't it obvious?  Bill Clinton let all of those Bin Laden people here in the
first place....


author: The Real Diddy Pop

subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Bush Puppet Regime) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

dude, you're a joke


author: TBone

subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Bush Puppet Regime) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Boy, you know no limits to your dishonesty do you?

Richard Clarke is who escorted bin Laden's family out of the states.
Not Bush, by the time Clarke let anyone know it was already done.

What makes you think bin Laden was "let" to get away with it?  Oh, I
know, if it isn't spoon fed to you from TV it isn't happening.

It must really irk you that everytime you attempt to spread falsehood
across the web, BAM! Tbone cross-checks you with facts.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Ray) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

BPR, Be happy someone actually replied to your post in the first
place.  But do not mistake your post for being legitimate because they
did. <snif> BTW BPR ... you stink.  <fart> its official BPR, your
still full of shit, go to the bathroom.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Ray) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Well gee if that were the case, then you would think 9 months would be
PLENTY of time for Bush to have kicked them all out by then if he was
such an expert on terrorism! what happened?  H Y P O C R I T E.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Ray) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

And Sandy Berger stole and shredded the classified documents proving it!


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (The Real Diddy Pop) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

No what is a joke is that illiterate fool and embarrassment for our
country that can't pronounce or comprehend and even makes up his own
big non existant words that you call a President, DON'T
'MISUNDERESTIMATE' ME NOW   lol,  idiots, your people are all clueless
idiots.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (TBone) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

You mean by the time Bush -finally- left the classroom he was visiting
on 9/11 that day?  his brain was overloaded being he was trying to
read to children, he had already spent the last of his few brain cells
and needed a re-charge first before dealing with the terror attack.
He was then too busy having dinner with  his rich Saudi's business
partners at the Whitehouse two nights later, when would he have time
to follow up on what his men were doing?  he had dinner plans with the
enemy!  in fact I am sure he did take one call from Clarke, to tell
him to get the Bin Laden's out of there so they didn't have to answer
any questions! how silly of you, show some respect for Mr. Bush's busy
busy schedule.

He let them leave the country right after it happend, all 20 of Bin
Laden's relatives in fact, all of them without asking them one single
question as to OBL's whereabouts!  including his immediate family,
people who had attended Bin Laden's sons wedding months before, all
fact, all a cover up by Bush to save his rich Arab friends and the
billions in oil deals he has with them.

Well you see, it really doesn't because it is all true, what irks me
is that Bush has gotten away with it and stupid people like you are
suckered into believing his many lies, you are a sad sucker.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
<< From: [email]  (Bush Puppet Regime) >>

<< > << Isn't it obvious?  Bush let him get away with it and he escorted all

Well gee if that were the case, then you would think 9 months would be
PLENTY of time for Bush to have kicked them all out by then if he was
such an expert on terrorism! what happened?  H Y P O C R I T E. >>

Thank you BB for displaying the liberal logic.  The BinLaden clan lived in the
country under the leadership of Clinton for years so therefore, wasn't Clintons
doing.  But becaue Bush took over office with all the problems Clinton left
behind, it was his incompetence for not realizing Clintons mistakes so it must
be his fault.  I'm glad you posted this nonsense because as you so often do,
make my point.  I think Mike Moorecrap would hold your comments in the highest
regards.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Bush Puppet Regime) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Well gee, if Clinton let them in then they couldn't be all that bad now could they?


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Bush Puppet Regime) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Both arguements are stupid considering that the bin Laden numbers in
to the millions. UBL is estranged from most of his family, and has
even less to do with his extended family. Those people are no more a
threat than the realtives of Tim Mcveigh. When will you people learn
this!!!!


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
<< From: [email]  (TBone) >>

<< > << Isn't it obvious?  Bush let him get away with it and he escorted all

And Sandy Berger stole and shredded the classified documents proving it!

Now you're not supposed to say that.  Documents can reappear if given time; Ask
Hillaryous!


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (Bush Puppet Regime) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

And how would you have left that classroom?

This coming from the guy who if brains were dynamite couldn't blow his
fucking nose.

I'm glad you brought that up...

Are you sure about that?  Maybe, just maybe, he was engaging in
diplomatic negotiations with Saudis to use their land to launch an
attack against Afghanistan?

Or maybe because we already knew bin Laden was in Afghanistan.  And
besides the 9/11 Commission already confirmed that Richard Clarke
acted alone to get the bin Ladens out.

Bam!  Cross-Check!


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
<< From: [email]  (The Real Diddy Pop) >>

<<  Well gee if that were the case, then you would think 9 months would be

Both arguements are stupid considering that the bin Laden numbers in
to the millions. UBL is estranged from most of his family, and has
even less to do with his extended family. Those people are no more a
threat than the realtives of Tim Mcveigh. When will you people learn
this!!!!

I am being absurd to prove absurdity.  Of course I don't believe that his
family had anything to do with Bush, 911 or anything else for that matter.
When somebody makes such a ridiculous statement, I try to make even a more
ridiculous statement to show how stupid their comment is in the first place.


subject: Re: Bush Plotted 9/11 w/ Bin Laden

text:
[email] (The Real Diddy Pop) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

You are wrong, several of those very same relatives still have ties to
him, several even attended a wedding with Osama Bin Laden himself not
too long before 9/11.  Some of them know how he thinks and how he
operates, and probably where he hides too, all it takes is one of them
to know where he is hiding or even might be, that is willing to talk.
Bush did not care because Bush was much more concerned with kissing
their asses as he is in business with them and the Bush estate is
obviously more of a priority to Bush than the security of this country
or getting OBL for what he did to us in the Fall of 2001.


author: Way Back Jack

subject: Wife Cries Rape; Hubby Kills Lover; Wife Indicted

text:
GOOD!
__________

In bizarre twist, wife indicted after husband shot her lover

By ANGELA K. BROWN
Associated Press

ARLINGTON, Texas ï¿½ Darrell Roberson came home from a card game late
one night to find his wife rolling around with another man in a pickup
in the driveway.

Caught in the act with her lover, Tracy Denise Roberson ï¿½ thinking
quickly, if not clearly ï¿½ cried rape, authorities say. Her husband
pulled a gun and killed the other man with a shot to the head.

On Thursday, a grand jury handed up a manslaughter indictment ï¿½
against the wife, not the husband.

In a case likely to reinforce the state's reputation for
don't-mess-with-Texas justice, the grand jury declined to charge the
husband with murder, the charge on which he was arrested by police.

"If I found somebody with my wife or with my kids in my house, there's
no telling what I might do," said Juan Muniz, 33, who was having lunch
today with one of his two small children at a restaurant in the
middle-class suburban Dallas neighborhood where the Robersons lived.
"I probably would have done the same thing."

Tracy Roberson, 35, could get two to 20 years in prison in the slaying
of Devin LaSalle, a 32-year-old UPS employee.

Assistant District Attorney Sean Colston declined to comment on
specifics of the case or the grand jury proceedings but said Texas law
allows a defendant to claim justification if he has "a reasonable
belief that his actions are necessary, even though what they believe
at the time turns out not to be true."

Mark Osler, a Baylor University law school professor and a former
federal prosecutor, said the grand jurors evidently put themselves in
the husband's place: "I can see one of them saying, 'I would have shot
the guy, too. I was just protecting my wife.'"

The December night before the shooting, Tracy Roberson sent LaSalle a
text message that read in part, "Hi friend, come see me please! I need
to feel your warm embrace!" according to court papers. LaSalle
apparently agreed.

Darrell Roberson, a 38-year-old employee of a real estate firm,
discovered the two, his wife clad in a robe and underwear.

When Tracy Roberson cried that she was being raped, LaSalle tried to
drive away and her husband drew the gun he happened to be carrying and
fired several shots at the truck, authorities said.

Darrell Roberson's attorney did not immediately return a call for
comment.

His wife also was charged with making a false report to a police
officer ï¿½ for allegedly saying she was raped ï¿½ and could get up to six
months behind bars on that offense. It was not immediately clear
whether she had a lawyer.

She had not been arrested as of this afternoon.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4675987.html


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Wife Cries Rape; Hubby Kills Lover; Wife Indicted

text:
Ken Littleton needs some good old fashioned, Texas justice.

http://reelnews.ds4a.com/debate.htm


text:
Some legal experts say they've never quite heard a case quite like
this. Texas Wesleyan School of Law associate professor Jason Gillmer
says a husband "is entitled to defend his wife and his family against
aggravated assault."

The woman was already out of reach of any danger as the guy was
driving away. Therefore the shooter MUST be put on trial. If that does
not happen, I'll have to say again, "You Americans will never stop
amazing me!".


author: _ Prof. Jonez _

text:
[email] wrote:

The phony "assault" was over and done with. The man was
retreating from the scene, driving away.

I doubt there is a law, even in Texas, that allows citizens to
use deadly force against a RETREATING suspect.

So why do loser societies like yours emulate the U$A every chance
you get, or when Washington DC tells you to ...?


author: QisQos

subject: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Excerpted from Matthew Anger's article in The Seattle Catholic (see
link below for more)

"The Problem of Slavery
Slavery, which had been successfully suppressed with the growth of
Christian Europe, saw an unfortunate reprise during the Renaissance.
This was due to two factors. First were the wars against the Turks, in
which both sides enslaved captives for use on the galleys in naval
combat. Turkish slaves did, however, have recourse to baptism, in
which case they had to be freed. The second factor was the Age of
Exploration, beginning in the late 15th century. What made this slave
institution different from the ancient model is that the enslaved were
now exclusively of a different race, rounded up and placed in
captivity solely for servile labor (unlike Turks who were simply
prisoners of war). During the Spanish and Portuguese conquest of the
New World, Indian and Negro enslavement was widespread, though it was
constantly opposed by the Church, with varying degrees of success.

Clearly there were shortcomings amongst individual Catholics. But to
hold the Faith responsible for such disappointments is like blaming
Moses for the failure of the Hebrews to obey the Ten Commandments. If
Catholics have tried and occasionally failed, more can be said for
them than for those who never tried at all. As noted above, no culture
prior to Christianity recognized slavery as a sin. As early as 1462,
Pope Pius II called slavery a "great crime" and pontiffs continued to
inveigh against the institution through the reign of Leo XIII in the
late 19th century. It was under him that the last instance of slavery
in a Catholic country (Brazil) was peacefully eliminated in the 1880s.
***It is interesting to contrast this with the bloody and destructive
end of slavery in the South during the American Civil War, which cost
nearly a million casualties. ***Even where slavery existed in the
Spanish colonies, it was always more of an economic institution rather
than a racial one, since marriage between different races was common
and did not carry the stigma it did in Protestant lands. Also, in the
1700s, American blacks frequently escaped from their masters in
Georgia and the Carolinas to find refuge as free men in Spanish
Florida. Some of these served as uniformed soldiers in the frontier
posts."

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20031201.html

As we can see, Baha Allah is rather the Johnny Come lately on issues
of racialism and slavery; the Catholic Church was far ahead of the
game in eliminating this evil from human society. Of course slavery
was hard to eradicate, especially in the face of its industrialization
by Calvinist Protestants (Baptists, Presbyterians in the South of the
US). To atribute the end of slavery to baha Allah's "manifestation" is
simply to ignore the historical truth, that slavery in  Christendom
was already at its end, only in Mahometan countries and in the animist
societies of Africa does one still find slavery as an enduring
institution. I suppose one could argue that if slavery was eliminated
in the Americas by the "spiritual effulgence" of Baha Allah's
manifestation, like so many Bahaists claim, why then did this
manifestation have no supernatural effect in the pagan countries of
Africa and in Mahometan countries like the Arabias and Afghanistan?

Clearly the claim made by Bahaists is akin to a rooster claiming that
the sun rose because of its crowing.


author: Susan Maneck

subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Uh, aren't you forgetting the little matter of black slaves at  the Vatican
during this time? As Pat pointed out, the 1462 bull referred solely to the
enslavement of co-religionists, something not allowed in Islam either (one does
not become automatically free by conversion, however, in either religion.) Pope
Leo XIII is really the first Pope to unequivocally denounce slavery.

Slaves in the US got their freedom much earlier.

Uh, Baha'u'llah never associated slavery with race either. In the Islamic world
there were plenty of white slaves.

There is no legalized slavery in either Arabia or Afganistan. As for the
illegal trafficking in girls, that happens in Catholic countries as well.

http://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st


author: Cal E. Rollins

subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
QQ,

You don't seem to have much knowledge about slavery in the beginnings of
the Baha'i Faith?  A lot more interesting questions could be asked there
rather than the dead issues of slavery as a result of Christianity and
in the Americas.  --Cal


author: Pat Kohli

subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
QisQos wrote:

Not really.  I feel like we've been through this before, right here as
well.  Nothing good seems to come of it, since you just want to post the
same smoke screen a few months later.  Did you think I'd died recently?

Pope Pius II's condemnation of a great crime which involved slavery, was
the enslavement of neophyte Christians (that is what _you_ said in your
post of 9 May 2003).  It was not a condemnation of slavery in general, as
a despicable institution regardless of race and other circumstances.  Your
other popes have also made limited condemnations of slavery in this
circumstance or that circumstance.  It is rather difficult to find an
unqualified, condemnation of slavery per se, from a Pope, until 1839.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=29a4262b.0305090527.72440c8e%40posting.google.com&rnum=5

Even during the 19th century, slavery was an institution which the church
was engaged in itself, not just condemning its practice by the laity.
Only after a particularly outrageous incident was church policy changed to
bar the clergy from trading in slaves.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3834973304d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E5AD2C3.32896D48%40ameritel.net

http://jsr.as.wvu.edu/2002/Reviews/Farrelly.htm
http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/amer_studies/jpp/sales.html
http://www.worldandi.com/specialreport/1993/february/Sa10393.htm

The problem of slavery, and Catholicism, is, of course, tradition.  W/in
the Christian tradition, slavery was an acceptable condition.  This is
laid out in the Christian Bible, "Slaves, be obedient to those who are
your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as
to Christ", Eph 6:5;
"Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with
eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the
Lord." Col 3:22; and,
"Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in
every respect; they are not to be refractory" Titus 2:9

We don't want to confuse church policy with state policy in states that
were coincidentally, predminately Catholic, or, do we want to discuss the
Inquisition, again?

Is this because the Spaniards had a longer tradition of slavery that
Spanish slavery was less onerous than British American colonial/US
slavery, or was it due to some Roman Catholic influence?

Are you really saying that God should have condemned slavery prior to the
19th century of the Christian era?

Not so.  The RCAC was just going along with everyone else, and, in same
cases, was _behind_ the pack, in the US.

I think the north was more industrialized than the south.

Slavery in the US was not eradicated by a Papal Bull, but through a very
bloody war.  Slavery among US RCAC clergy may have been eradicated simply
by selling off hundreds of slaves.  One solution solved the problem, the
other just washed the hands of the problem, with lots of silver.

Cookadoodle doo!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Susan,

Yahooooo, Susan!  The Bab, Baha'u'llah, and the Afnan didn't have white
slaves, dearie.  They were black as you well know, so stop trying to
obfuscate and pass the buck to the Pope and his folk.  The buck stops at
our door, dear heart.  --Cal


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
[email] (Cal E. Rollins) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Pax vobiscum Cal:

As you know, Cal, Bahaism and its babist origins start in Mahometanism
of an extreme shiist formulation. Now Mahometanism never prohibited
chattel slavery and in fact Mahometans were a major source of
procuring and trading African slaves wholesale for the Calvinist Dutch
and British. So much so that entire tribes were moved from what is now
Nigeria to inhabit the plantations of Calvinist American colonialists
in places like Georgia.

So in many regards the Calvinists held common cause with the
mahometans in the slaving trade, and consequently gave rise to the
racialist ideals that still occupy much of American mentality.

Racialism is not a Catholic value as you know, since all human beings
in the Faith are considered to be members of the body of Christ and
therefore any materialist philosophy like racialism, or social
philosophy like nationalism has been tradtionally discouraged in the
Church.

This does not mean that nominal catholics of all times are innocent of
racialist or nationalist errors, to the contary, many Spaniards and
French did commit great sins by engaging in slave trading. However,
one cannot blame the ecclesiastical authority for this since human
beings have a historical tendency to defy authority as we all know.

but it should not surprise that Bahaullah and Bab had black slaves -
true to the Mahometan mindset, they also most likely thought
themselves above the sorts of humanism they p[retended to preach in
their "tablets".

QuisQuos


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Cal,

As you very well know, black is white and white is black.  No point in
pretending otherwise, is there?


author: Dermod Ryder

subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
"QisQos" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

The only thing that ever interested the Church was the increase of its power
and it's still the prime concern it has.  Fortunately pluralist states have
helped curb that to the benefit of all.

.


author: Adelard

subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Hi QuisQuos,

<<
Racialism is not a Catholic value as you know, since all human beings
in the Faith are considered to be members of the body of Christ and
therefore any materialist philosophy like racialism, or social
philosophy like nationalism has been tradtionally discouraged in the
Church.

Really? I think you have not learned anything, since my discussion
with you on 1994 Rwanda Genocide.

 <<
However,
one cannot blame the ecclesiastical authority for this since human
beings have a historical tendency to defy authority as we all know.

I think I can blame them when they display in the churches, the
portray of Jesus as a white man with blond hair and Angels as small
white babies. Remember he was a jew, kind of black. Don't you think?

<<
but it should not surprise that Bahaullah and Bab had black slaves -
true to the Mahometan mindset,

To be precise on this, If they had black slaves, it's because Christ
and Muhammad didn't forbid slavery. Baha'u'llah had to abrogate that
law and make end to the Koranic law.

<snip>

Peace,
Adelard


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
QQ,

As I see it, the Bab and Baha'u'llah were Beings of their time in terms
of slavery as were Moses, Christ, and Muhammad.

It was after Baha'u'llah was imprisoned in the Siyah-Chal (the Most
Great Prison) and became the Prisoner/Slave that He rose above the other
Manifestations by prohibiting slavery for all time.

For me that's an interesting historical fact that ought to be pursued
and written about by Baha'is.  So far, I only know of one theologian who
has voiced that point of view.  To me that view saves Baha'i-bacon and
also serves to vindicate the seeming failures of Christ and Muhammad at
the same time, i.e. It just wasn't time for the concept of slavery to
have been understood by mankind and, hence,  abolished by those two
Beings (or the Bab either now that we know the Qayumu'l-Asma said
nothing about slavery).

Who better, then,  than Baha'u'llah, whose goal is to institute the
reality of the organic unity of mankind, to be the Creative Force and
Word to help mankind understand the nature of slavery?
He said He accepted imprisonment in the Most Great Prison so we'd all be
free.  Did Christ and Muhammad rise to the challenge of and match the
dynamics of that concept?  Obviously Their dynamic functions were
elsewhere, don't you think?  --Cal


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
No, they didn't. But the Shah and the Ottoman Sultan had white slaves during
this time. Household slaves were usually black in 19th century Iran. Iranians
had some funny notion they made better cooks.

I'm not passing the buck to anyone. Slavery has been around as long as history,
or even longer. But I *am* debunking the notion that the church tried to outlaw
it in the sixteenth century which is what QisQos was arguing.

http://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Pat,

You and I agree on that one. You are absolutely right. There is no point
in trying to pretend, because we know we're living in the times
predicted by the prophet George Orwell in his books, _1984_ and _Animal
Farm_.  The hallmark for our time is, indeed, as you point out so
subtlely: "Slaves are Servants and are consequently Free."  It's also
called Graduate Baha'i Theology 401.  --Cal


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
"Adelard" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Nah!  The "anglians" in Britain did that first.


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
[email] (Adelard) wrote in message news:<

Adelard - who would have suspected that you were a racialist yourself?

So you don't like white babies?

Clearly we cannot remake Christianity to be "inclusive" politically
correct and gender neutral so that nobody is offended among the
leftist, african-american, shamanic, lesbian feminist contingent that
seems to be dominating cultural discourse (and evidently liberal
bahaism) these days. The religious texts of Christianity refer to God
as a male, the Virgin Mary is a female and Jews by and large have not
been historically negroes - although some wiseacre will pipe up about
the Ethiopians and Sammy Davis Jr., but then there is always something
itsn't it?

But really now, the genocide in Rwanda was more about pre-Christian
tribal hatreds than anything else - the Church is simply a convenient
scapegoat for you and your kind.

Quisquos


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Susan,

Well the Bab too obviously thought His slave Fiddiyih was a good cook,
since she had responsibility for cooking, cleaning, entertaining, and
waiting on the Khanum head and foot from the time she was five years old
when other kids were out playing and having fun.  Of course, a good
Baha'i would say cooking and cleaning house for the Bab was fun for a
slave-kid, like I should have been glad to have been a slave of the Bab
or Baha'u'llah.  Right?  --Cal


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Susan Maneck wrote:

I'm sure the white slaves were black too, even if they could not cook.

Right.

Best wishes!
- Pat


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
Dermod,

As I understand it from various sources like Seagal in _Islam's Black
Slaves_ it was the British occupiers who told the Ottomon folk they
couldn't have slaves any longer.  So didn't Baha'u'llah forbid what the
British Government had already said what his countrymen couldn't do? Why
do we take credit for our Manifestation being the first to forbid
slavery?  Well, I guess He was, but...  --Cal


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
"QisQos" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Just as it is in Norn Iren too?


subject: Re: Catholicism and racial justice

text:
[email] (QisQos) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

I think Pat responded to you eloquently, let's me just respond to you
the above.

You missed my point, because of your ignorance maybe. But we learn
each other, no problem.

Just imagine if in the churches, they could include black babies as
Angels, do you understand how psychologically speaking, it can help
the minds of Africans who have been colonized by Europeans in Africa.
If you go to Africa, you can see the sense of inferiority, many of
Africans feel toward Whites which is one of the factors, that
Continent is not doing well.

When I talk about this issue, I spoke globally, but you missed it, You
think about the USA only maybe, even in the USA, there are
African-Americans and Asians and so on.

Peace,
Adelard