subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
:)
What I mean is - can I change the code/data of a running Lisp program,
without stopping the program?

ie, my program is
(defvar *stop* nil)
(while (= stop nil)
 .... do body )

Then from another "thread" that has a REPL can I go (setf stop t) and
have the loop terminate?

Brad


author: bradb

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
That is true I guess.  I should perhaps ask "is this feature already
built in?"  At the moment I am using Vim + Vilisp.  If Slime has this
IPC feature then it might be a compelling reason to invest in it.  I
really ought to invest in learning it anyhow - but at the moment a new
editor + a new language might be a bit much.
BTW - I watched your Slime demo video last night - impressive stuff

Brad


author: Pascal Bourguignon

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
"bradb" <[email]> writes:

The beginner can do this:

[22]> (defun next (i) (1+ i))

NEXT
[23]> (loop
    :for i = 0 then (next i)
    :while (<= 0 i)
    :do (print i))

0
1
2
3
...
10572
10573
10574
10575
** - Continuable Error
EVAL: User break
If you continue (by typing 'continue'): Continue execution
The following restarts are also available:
ABORT          :R1      ABORT
Break 1 [24]> (defun next (i) (1- i))
NEXT
Break 1 [24]> continue

10574
10573
10572
10571
10570
...
3
2
1
0
NIL
[25]>

Et hop!  One bug corrected at run-time!

With an implementation that support threads, you can even redefine the
function without breaking into the debugger, with a REPL in another
thread.


author: Julian Squires

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
On 2005-09-26, bradb <[email]> wrote:

Frequently I run a program which creates its own window and has
graphical output and interaction there, and at the same time I change
parts of the source and update them with C-c C-c in SLIME, and inspect
and modify things from the REPL.  Try things in the debugger, too.  It's
pretty easy to get this sort of stuff working.

Cheers.


author: Marco Baringer

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
"bradb" <[email]> writes:

yes, but you can do that in any language (your example amounts to a
simple form of ipc via shared state).


author: Kenny Tilton

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
bradb wrote:

Shucks, I did exactly that once with debug output streaming to my
listener window. I just typed more or less blindly and hit return. I was
careful not to leave off the asterisks on *stop*, so it worked.

:)


author: Alan Crowe

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
brad.beveridge asks

Something that I've done (to delay having to learn about
threads) is to use LISTEN, which is ANSI CL, from the
streams dictionary.

For a simple example consider this little loop that slowly
prints out the values of a function.

* (defvar *i* 0)

*I*
* (defun foo () (print (expt *i* 4)))

FOO
* (loop (incf *i*)(foo)(sleep 2))

1
16
81
256

Interrupted at #x280CB958.

How can we keep talking to the REPL while this is going on?
We can do this in a single thread by listening periodically
to see if there is input which we pass to our own embedded
REPL.

(loop (incf *i*)(foo)(sleep 2)
	(when (listen)
	  (print (eval (read)))))

Then we can do things such as reset the count

20736
28561
(setf *i* 0)
38416
0
1
16

or change the function

50625
65536
83521
104976
(defun foo () (format t "~R~%" *i*))
130321
FOO twenty
twenty-one
twenty-two
twenty-three

Under CMUCL this rapidly becomes frustrating because when
you make an error the only restart is to return to the
top-level. This breaks you out of your loop.

I wrote an interaction macro to wrap the body code and the
REPL in appropriate restarts.

;;;; repeat-interactively
;;;
;;; Allows the programmer to work on running code
;;;
(defmacro repeat-interactively ((&optional (tick 1)
					   (count-var 'count)
					   (prompt "~&>>-~A-> "))
				&body code)
  `(flet ((prompt-user()
	    (declare (special prompt ,count-var ))
	    (format t prompt ,count-var)
	    (force-output)))
      (let ((,count-var 0)
	    (prompt ,prompt)
	    (tick ,tick))
	(declare (special ,count-var prompt tick))
	(prompt-user)
	(catch 'stop
	  (loop
	   (restart-case
	    (progn ,@code (incf ,count-var)(sleep tick))
	    (fixed () :report "Resume processing."))
	   (when (listen)
	     (tagbody top
		      (restart-case
		       (progn
			 (print (eval (read)))
			 (prompt-user))
		       (shrug () :report "Continue processing."
			      (prompt-user))
		       (retry () :report "Evaluate another form."
			      (prompt-user)
			      (go top)))))
	   )))))

I don't use it much. It is usually adequate to interrupt the
running code with ctrl-C ctrl-C, make the change, and then
use the continue restart.

There is one cool trick which I suggest you try. Make the
loop write to a file. Use finish-output to flush the buffers
and the Unix command tail -f to what the output.

Make it tabulate something that is compute intensive, so
that interpreted code is taking a second or two for each
entry. Then compile the code and watch it suddenly get faster.
Coming from a C background, I find this completely
mind-boggling.

I don't think that there is anything difficult about using a
REPL in a separater thread to change function
definitions. However, if you try writing code that uses
multiple threads in a serious way, you have to use locks to
stop the different threads from stepping on each others
toes, and it is this that I have shied away from.

Alan Crowe
Edinburgh
Scotland


author: Thomas F. Burdick

subject: Re: Interactive debugging tips...

text:
"bradb" <[email]> writes:

What you're thinking of is probably not what you want to do.  You
certainly *can* do that from another thread, and slime's thread
browser is useful here.  However, you probably want to use C-c C-c to
interrupt the Lisp, redefine a function, then continue; or then
restart a stack frame.  Of course, you can also interrupt any thread
this way (Slime's thread browser is really useful here).


author: Dave Knight

subject: Re: Intel Proshare

text:
It is not yet supported.

In article <5lk9i3$6ci$[email]>, [email]
(Dieter Frï¿½lich) wrote:


author: Shane Wegner

subject: General ISDN questions

text:
Hi all,

I am new to ISDN and am hoping I can get some assistance here.  if there is
a FAQ or tutorial which addresses these issues, please feel free to simply
point it out.  I am looking at getting an ISDN line to replace two analog
lines I currently have installed.  My questions are related to features
primarily.

Ok so assuming I have a terminal adapter, as I understand it, the telco
sends a ring packet to the adapter when there is an incoming call.  The TA
then rings an attached analog phone.  With a serial connection from the TA,
can I see that ring packet coming in and tell the TA whether to ring the
phone and how to ring it?  I guess what I'm wondering is how much control do
you have over a terminal adapter.  Do you get the caller ID information over
it's serial connection or does it simply send it to the analog device to
which it is destined?

I read the manual for the 3com TA.  Though it described at codes used to
configure the device, it didn't go into what got sent back to the computer.
Ideally what I'd  like to do is have absolute control with software.  When
the handset gets picked up, the software knows it.  The software gives it a
dialtone.  The user dials and the software decides whether to actually place
the call etc etc.

The other question I had is related to InterNet connectivity.  The one
analog line I have now has ADSL on it.  8 mbps downstream and 600kbps
upstream.  This is much faster than the 128kbps speeds of ISDN.  Is there
any way I can keep those high speeds after moving to ISDN?

Thanks in advance,
Shane


author: Gerald Moore

subject: Re: General ISDN questions

text:
I dont have any answers, only a question for you: why are you ditching
DSL for ISDN?  The only way I know for you to keep the DSL bandwidth is
to not switch from DSL.  There is IDSL, but it is only 144k/144k.

Gerald

In article <mlaE5.104924$[email]>,
  Shane Wegner <[email]> wrote:
there is
simply
analog
features
telco
The TA
the TA,
the
control do
information over
to
to
computer.
When
gives it a
actually place
there

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


author: Spam Trap

subject: Re: General ISDN questions

text:
See:

ISDN tutorial - http://www.ralphb.net/ISDN/

ISDN reference - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/isdn/


author: RjB

subject: How to produce a QT movie on a Unix box

text:
Hi --

	I'm doing some visualization, and am interested in storing my results
frame-by-frame as a quicktime movie that I can display on my mac.  Can
anyone point me to where I might find out, or better yet, source
code?

	Thanks..

	-o


author: Michael B. Johnson

subject: Re: How to produce a QT movie on a Unix box

text:
In article <[email]> RjB <[email]> writes:

Apple sells (through APDA) a toolkit for doing this.  The source
they provide allows QT encoding into really only JPEG compressed QT
movies, which is fine for storage, but not great for playback.  If
you buy the toolkit (it's around $90, I think), I can give you
the diffs to fix all the bugs I found, as well as the source to
a simple TIFFs to QT converter I wrote that just needs a C++ compiler,
Sam Leffler's TIFF library, and this library from Apple.  I
really wish Apple would just put this code in the public domain,
so more people in the UNIX world could easily write QT movies, but...


author: Kent Sandvik

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
(Michael B. Johnson) wrote:
  ; Apple sells (through APDA) a toolkit for doing this.  The source
  ; they provide allows QT encoding into really only JPEG compressed QT
  ; movies, which is fine for storage, but not great for playback.  If
  ; you buy the toolkit (it's around $90, I think), I can give you
  ; the diffs to fix all the bugs I found, as well as the source to
  ; a simple TIFFs to QT converter I wrote that just needs a C++ compiler,
  ; Sam Leffler's TIFF library, and this library from Apple.  I
  ; really wish Apple would just put this code in the public domain,
  ; so more people in the UNIX world could easily write QT movies, but...

The Inside Macintosh QuickTime book has a complete break down of how the
QT resources look inside a file, so anyone interested in just generating
files should have a chance doing so by looking at the structure. As for
playback, that's also doable with a lot of work and pain, but I agree that
a library with basic support certainly helps kickstarting projects related
to just generating QT movies.

You could always do post-processing on the QT movies on a Mac platform and
change the re-compress the movie (using animation, graphics or cinepak,
for instance). JPEG is lossy, but depending on the case maybe that's not a
big issue.

I will talk with marketing concerning opening up the mentioned QT kit I
didn't know existed myself. And yes we are interested in feedback related
to bugs in the kit, so send those to me and I will take care of the bug
reporting.

--Kent


author: Thanh Tran

subject: Re: Game testing: Vortex 1  vs  Vortex 2  vs  SB Live! Value

text:
words, a
to the right

Stereo-flipping... i don't think it's a driver problem... course it could
be... but
back in the old days it was known that the SoundBlaster Pro had this exact
same problem. To this day it remains unfixed.


author: drwho

text:
I can assure you that Vortex2 drivers will be in its early stages for the next year, going
on how Aureal has supported Vortex1 :-)

I don't use headphones so experience will vary.
As far as backwards sounds in Jedi Knight, I can beleive this
as CL's drivers sometimes suck.


author: David Gasior

text:
In article <wqLR1.2836$[email]>, [email]
says ...

No, not really.  But then again, I was only testing games that supported DS3D
and A3D 1.0, so I didn't expect that much of a difference.  When a game is
released with A3D 2.0, I'll be eager to see how they compare.

Well, for DOS compatibility, pretty much everything is better than the Monster
Sound series.    :)

Not that its a bad thing, though.  I play only a few DOS games, and all work
perfect inside a Windows DOS box, so the Monster Sound series would be no
problem.

Yes, if you look back a few months, I did an extensive post on use of the
Vortex 1 cards on various processors.  The numbers have only gotten better with
subsequent driver releases.

I'm not aware of Unreal using different sample rates.  All games were tested
with Unreal's defaults, with the exceptions I mentioned.  As for quality of
sound, no not really.  I really haven't played that far into  Unreal where
there would be anywhere near 32 streams to see how the cards would handle it,
nor have I heard any effects that sounded different from one card to the next.

I think they just mean the various effects you can apply to the MIDI channels.
 Sort of like the TB Tropez Plus had.  I really haven't played around with them
that much, soo I really can't comment.


author: [redacted]

subject: Performance problem on a select statement

text:
Hi @ll,

i have two tables with very big performance problems under another
database this statements take 1-3 seconds under Version 8.2 fixpack 7
this takes 30 seconds or sometimes 10 seconds. I made a reorg on all
indexes several times after that i made runstats on both tables. the
clustering is ok. have anyone another solution i will post more details
if you want.

cu,

indika


author: Phil Sherman

subject: Re: Performance problem on a select statement

text:
Did you ever look at your explains? for starters; it appears that the
two queries are using different indexes! The explain numbers indicate
that one will run longer than the other.

Large variability in run times can have multiple causes. The simplest
are delays caused by locks and delays caused by opening table files.
Explain shows  none of this.

When asking for help with problems like this; you usuallly will need to
supply the DDL for the tables and indexes. Statistics, taken after
runstats, will also help.

Phil Sherman

[email] wrote:


text:
Hi Phil,

i added the ddl. Runstats was executed.
How do i get Statistics? Which one do you mean?

Thanks in advance!

indika

Phil Sherman wrote:


author: Julian

subject: Password for "registered users" of two Macs

text:
I have networked my PowerBook to my wife's iMac in the next room via
Ethernet and a D-Link Broadband router and have set Personal File
Sharing on both computers. Both computers are running the latest
flavour of Panther. However, while I can mount my PB Home Folder on the
iMac as a "registered user" I cannot do the reverse, i.e. mount my
wife's Home folder on my PB (using my wife's shortname and password as
"registered user"). It simply will not accept any passwordï¿½certainly
not her login PW or any other possible candidate.

Does anyone know a possible cause of this anomaly. Of course one is
offered the possibility of changing the PW but, alas, only if one
enters the existing (unknown) one first.

Any solution? Any ideas?


author: Darrell Greenwood

subject: Re: Password for "registered users" of two Macs

text:
[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article <[email]>, Julian
<[email]> wrote:

Admin user on a PB can change the password without entering the
existing password, so that might be worth trying.

i.e., On your wife's PB go to

System Preferences -> Accounts -> Password and enter a new password
twice.

Cheers,

Darrell


author: Tim McNamara

text:
Julian <[email]> writes:

Has she turned on Personal File Sharing in System Preferences?


text:
In article <[email]>, Darrell
Greenwood <[email]> wrote:

Ah! Darrell, if it were that easy! I did exactly that when I set up her
account recently. In fact I've changed the account passwords on BOTH
machines. The problem is that, although I can sign in as a "registered
user" on her machine (the iMac) O.K. , I cannot do the same on mine
(the PB). It tells me I have an incorrect password, whatever password I
try, hers, mine, old, new, her shortname, my shortname. I've tried them
all. Zilch.

It seems that the login password is not fed through to the sharing set
up. My problem is how to find what it is when all my avenues appear to
be blocked.


author: Bev A. Kupf

text:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:52:04 -0600,
    Tim McNamara ([email]) wrote:

I think that's likely, because otherwise he would get a dialog
box to enter a username & password.

To the original poster:
Can you create another login on your wife's iMac, test whether
the password for that new user is also not accepted?  At the
least this will indicate whether the issue is with a single
username/password, or is more generic.

Also, instead of accessing her drive via AFP, do you get the
same error if you try CIFS?  To do so, enable "Windows sharing"
on her computer, and on yours access it using an entry such
as "smb://ip_address_of_her_iMac" in the "connect to server"
dialog box.

Beverly


author: Tom Stiller

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Julian <[email]> wrote:

How many characters in the password?  Any special ones?


text:
In article <[email]>, Bev A. Kupf
<[email]> wrote:

Hi Beverly,

Tried your above suggestions but no go. New user password is not
accepted, and I cannot connect smb (password not accepted). It is
strange, since when I choose "Guest" I can see my two users in the
resulting window and can log on. However, I still cannot put anything
in my wife's Drop Box, ï¿½ dialog tells me I haven't sufficient
privileges. Wierd! I have repaired all permissions etc. with Disk
Utility but same thing.

Is there no way (e.g. from the Terminal) to discover what the PW is
that it wants?

Of course I can go the other way (log on to my machine from my wife's),
so I can still communicate. It just bugs me why this happens.


text:
In article <[email]>,
Tom Stiller <[email]> wrote:

No Tom. No special characters. And thanks Bev, I'll try your
suggestions and let you know (probably tomorrow since I'm tied up
today).


author: Steve Camas

subject: Why doesn't this thing spool?

text:
I hope someone out there knows how to config. smail weel enough to
explain something to me.  When using smail, if I try to send mail to a
ppp user who is currently not connected, instead of spooling the mail it
bounces it.  What are the key things to set in the config so that it will
send the mail if it can and spool it if it can't.  Sendmail seems to do
this the way I expect but the other end of my ppp connection they are
using smail and can't figure out why it won't spool my mail.  Any ideas?
My service provider is stumped - I wan to help solve the problem...

Thanks


author: John Henders

subject: Re: Why doesn't this thing spool?

text:
In <372tc9$[email]> [email] (Steve Camas) writes:

	The easiest solution with smail is to have the ppp user put
user@site rather than [email] in their mail headers and get their
mail with a pop client.


subject: Re: Why doesn't this thing spool?

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (John Henders) writes:

The problem is I have a subnet which is using ppp to connect to a network
provider.  It is not reasonable to have my service provider store _my_ mail
for _all_ of my users on _his_ system and have us call his system using pop to
get the mail off.  Besides, this wouldn't work because he would have to
create mailboxes for _all_ of our users - that's _our_ problem, not his.

Perhaps I didn't explain the problem well in my first posting (It was pretty
late and I was disgusted).  Mail needs to be able to be sent to anyone on our
host like [email] and [email] etc, etc... My service
provider's smail needs to send any mail that is for anyone at company.com  to
us.  This already works fine.  The problem comes in when we are not connected
at the moment that mail comes for somebody here.  In this case, smail does not
spool the mail, it bounces it saying the service is not available.  Ideally I
would want smail to send our smpt mail daemon mail as it arrives if we are
connected and spools it if we're not.  Then, when we connect, the ppp daemon
executes a sendmail -q to make our mail sent to us... I know how to do this
with sendmail but not with smail.  Any advise?


author: Leslie Mikesell

subject: Re: Why doesn't this thing spool?

text:
In article <[email]>, Steve Camas <[email]> wrote:

If you recompile with some type of kernel locking defined you should get
the spooling you want.  However, there is no good way to tell smail to
send the messages queued to a single site after you connect - you'll have
to wait for a queue run to wade through everything to find yours.  The
best solution might be to set up uucp over tcp and let smail hand off
to the uucp queuing mechanism which already works the way you want.

Les Mikesell
  [email]


subject: Project Angel Sucks BIG TIME!!!!!!!!

text:
Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project Angel
was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which I thought
was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is the
way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
	What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's more is
I think (and if I am wrong please correct me) that the opening uses animations, which
in my opinion are not acceptable in 1995. Demo's should be realtime calculated and
just like the beginning of "Contagion" states NO FAKES.
	I would also like to know from some more experianced coders than I, if
perhaps the reason Project Angel is so big is because all the vectors are pre calculated.
	To some it up I don't think Angel is very good considering it's (buy demo standards)
huge size. I certainly hope that the scourge of code bloat will not ruin the demo scene.


author: Abraham Demco

subject: Re: Project Angel Sucks BIG TIME!!!!!!!!

text:
[email] wrote:
: 	Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project Angel
: was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which I thought
: was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is the
: way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
: graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
: 	What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's more is
: I think (and if I am wrong please correct me) that the opening uses animations, which
: in my opinion are not acceptable in 1995. Demo's should be realtime calculated and
: just like the beginning of "Contagion" states NO FAKES.
: 	I would also like to know from some more experianced coders than I, if
: perhaps the reason Project Angel is so big is because all the vectors are pre calculated.
: 	To some it up I don't think Angel is very good considering it's (buy demo standards)
: huge size. I certainly hope that the scourge of code bloat will not ruin the demo scene.


author: david wee

text:
Well, i just downloaded Project Angel last night, and i have to say it
was totally awesome. But it seemed to lack demo-elements. Maybe it was
too new for me, but i think it didnt have much design.
And yea, the animations at the beginning were out of place.


author: Houman Ghahremanlou

text:
[email] wrote:
: 	Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project Angel
: was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which I thought
: was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is the
: way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
: graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
: 	What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's more is

Well in your title you say it sucks big time, then you say it is "just" really
poor, Well tell us really what you think.... on the other hand we don't
really care what you think. Because to a democoder Angel's work is very
important , nice music, 3D stuff. in a very agreable environment. hell the graph
flickers as hell in a ET4000, but works pretty nice in S3..
Well, For me it was important because it showed that french demo makers are
back in the scene as they should have been. see project angel, Noon, and
that demo from arkham....

WE ARE BACK!

Houman :)


author: PeriSoft

text:
In article <3k0knk$[email]> [email] writes:

Regardless, I can't blame them.. they still stayed within the competition
limit (by some shakey means =) but I was gonna do the same thing for my
intro.. enough of that though) :> As long as they stayed within 4 meg, which
I believe is the limit, who can blame them? :>

                   --PeriSoft / Defiance


text:
[email] wrote:
: 	Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project Angel
: was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which I thought
: was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is the
: way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
: graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
: 	What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's more is
: I think (and if I am wrong please correct me) that the opening uses animations, which
: in my opinion are not acceptable in 1995. Demo's should be realtime calculated and

Too bad , demo coders dont care about your opinion. They dont code for YOU,
rather want themselves to prove what they can achieve in design/speed/etc.
(or win competitions of course ...) For alot of the Amiga guys/girls present
at the Parties, animations _are_ acceptable.

: just like the beginning of "Contagion" states NO FAKES.

Contagion is IMHO (!) a sequence of dull rotating 3d objects with really poor
design (if at all). The "Phong Shading" thingie was FAKE, people who are not
able to recognize this are of course quite impressed ...

: 	I would also like to know from some more experianced coders than I, if
: perhaps the reason Project Angel is so big is because all the vectors are pre calculated.

Precalculating vectors is a beginner's myth. It's either compressed animation
(which would take GB's in that case) or realtime!

: 	To some it up I don't think Angel is very good considering it's (buy demo standards)
: huge size. I certainly hope that the scourge of code bloat will not ruin the demo scene.

I personally couldnt care less for the size of a demo/intro/whatever. If the
intro's 64k, its fine. If you lose a nice gfx or design trying to reduce it to
40k, you're stupid. IMHO.

tf/s!p


author: Herve BENVEL

text:
--
In article <3k4602$[email]>, [email] (Houman Ghahremanlou) writes:
[project angel]
|> Well, For me it was important because it showed that french demo makers are
|> back in the scene as they should have been. see project angel, Noon, and
|> that demo from arkham....

I do agree with this! :)

|> WE ARE BACK!

Hehe... check out issue #3 of Pc-Fun, if you can! :)
There's a 2-page article on Project Angel...

What's up with Infiny by the way?
Are they working on a new demo???

|> Houman :)

Herve.


text:
\In <3k4602$[email]>, [email] (Houman Ghahremanlou) writes:
\>[email] wrote:
\>: 	Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project Angel
\>: was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which I thought
\>: was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is the
\>: way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
\>: graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
\>: 	What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's more is
\>
\>Well in your title you say it sucks big time, then you say it is "just" really
\>poor, Well tell us really what you think....

Here in America "really poor" means it really sucked.

\>					...on the other hand we don't
\>really care what you think. Because to a democoder Angel's work is very
\>important , nice music, 3D stuff. in a very agreable environment. hell the graph
\>flickers as hell in a ET4000, but works pretty nice in S3..

Excuse me the damn thing is 3.65 megs and yeah it was visually impressive but
is that any reason for the bulk. There is no way to forgive the animations, they
just shouldn't be there and they are probably part of the bloat. I think Nooon's
"No" is much, much better coded and just as visually impressive (check out that
3d texture maped gouraud shaded mask)

\>Well, For me it was important because it showed that french demo makers are
\>back in the scene as they should have been. see project angel, Noon, and
\>that demo from arkham....
\>
\>WE ARE BACK!
\>
\>Houman :)
Good for you, however national origin of a Demo should not be the basis for judging
a demo as being good or bad, simple evaluation of design, code, and visuals should
be the basis. After all you don't judge a movie on the basis of it's national origin.


author: Todd M Zimnoch

text:
Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos: 15-Mar-95 Re: Project Angel
Sucks BIG.. by [email]

    Why not?  Nationalism is fun and exciting.  :-)

    Being used to the unusually high quality (and quantity) of movies in
the states, I've found very few foreign films to be of interest.

    Erendira, Como Agua Para Chocolate, The Satyricon, anything by
Ingmar Bergmann, a few titles by Jan Svankmejer, four weddings and a
funeral, the crying game (got sick of capitalization)...  I'm running
dry on foreign films that I appreciated.

    There are things that you begin to expect of a film comming from a
certain country.  i.e. American movies should have had a big budget
supporting them, movies form central america generally employ
surrealistic imagery.  Then again I'm equating more "artful" movies with
"entertaining" movies.

    There is also something you come to expect with demos from certain
countries.  i.e.  American demos don't have the most awesome coding
you've seen.  I think it's nice that the French have established a
reputation for the quality of demos that French people can produce.

Kneebiter
3/15/95


text:
\In <[email]>, [email] (PeriSoft) writes:
\>In article <3k0knk$[email]> [email] writes:
\>>        Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project
\>>Angel
\>>was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which
\>>I thought
\>>was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is
\>>the
\>>way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
\>>graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
\>>        What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's
\>>more is
\>>I think (and if I am wrong please correct me) that the opening uses
\>>animations, which
\>>in my opinion are not acceptable in 1995. Demo's should be realtime calculated
\>>and
\>>just like the beginning of "Contagion" states NO FAKES.
\>>        I would also like to know from some more experianced coders than I, if
\>>perhaps the reason Project Angel is so big is because all the vectors are pre
\>>calculated.
\>>        To some it up I don't think Angel is very good considering it's (buy
\>>demo standards)
\>>huge size. I certainly hope that the scourge of code bloat will not ruin the
\>>demo scene.
\>
\>Regardless, I can't blame them.. they still stayed within the competition
\>limit (by some shakey means =) but I was gonna do the same thing for my
\>intro.. enough of that though) :> As long as they stayed within 4 meg, which
\>I believe is the limit, who can blame them? :>
\>
\>                   --PeriSoft / Defiance
Please understand that I am NOT saying a demo must be small to be beatiful I am just think
the demo didn't justify it's size in any way shape or form. I don't care if a demo is 50 megs
if it absolutly blows me away and shatters the standards (which Future Crew still sets, at
least in my mind).

P.S. I would really like to see your demo.
c-ya


text:
\In <3k6h5t$[email]>, pk1@tibet (Praktikum_1) writes:
\>[email] wrote:
\>: 	Maby you guys out there will think I am a jerk but I thought Project Angel
\>: was just really poor. I don't think it should have beat out NOOON's No, which I thought
\>: was really graphically impressive and well coded. What I consider important is the
\>: way a demo is coded. Nooon is not only more impressive because of its awsome
\>: graphics but also because it achieves so much more with the code used.
\>: 	What I am basically saying is Angel is just way to damn big. What's more is
\>: I think (and if I am wrong please correct me) that the opening uses animations, which
\>: in my opinion are not acceptable in 1995. Demo's should be realtime calculated and
\>
\>Too bad , demo coders dont care about your opinion. They dont code for YOU,
\>rather want themselves to prove what they can achieve in design/speed/etc.
\>(or win competitions of course ...) For alot of the Amiga guys/girls present
\>at the Parties, animations _are_ acceptable.

Wrong, they code to show off to other people (and other coders) thier abilities and therefore
are performing to an audiance which includes you and I.

\>: just like the beginning of "Contagion" states NO FAKES.
\>
\>Contagion is IMHO (!) a sequence of dull rotating 3d objects with really poor
\>design (if at all). The "Phong Shading" thingie was FAKE, people who are not
\>able to recognize this are of course quite impressed ...

Please explain in detail how this is "FAKE" since I would like to know, I do not claim
to be an experianced coder and would like to know how they did it.

\>
\>: 	I would also like to know from some more experianced coders than I, if
\>: perhaps the reason Project Angel is so big is because all the vectors are pre calculated.
\>
\>Precalculating vectors is a beginner's myth. It's either compressed animation
\>(which would take GB's in that case) or realtime!

Again how then in contagion did they do the Phong Shading? Explain the routines in detail ( I
am honestly really interested to know, since I was fooled into thinking it was realtime. Members
of TC speak up!)

\>
\>: 	To some it up I don't think Angel is very good considering it's (buy demo standards)
\>: huge size. I certainly hope that the scourge of code bloat will not ruin the demo scene.
\>
\>I personally couldnt care less for the size of a demo/intro/whatever. If the
\>intro's 64k, its fine. If you lose a nice gfx or design trying to reduce it to
\>40k, you're stupid. IMHO.
This isn't a matter of weather or not I would cut out neat gfx to save space, I just think
considering the size of Project Angel I expected a whole lot more demo.
\>
\>tf/s!p
Remind me never to post a contraversial message again...


author: Antti P|ll{nen

text:
[email] (Herve BENVEL) writes:

They just released Epsilon, it's from some little french (?) party.  Quite
nice demo, I don't know if you can find it from hornet, tho..

-- Razorback/@/Topaz -- GFX, SWAP --

-- Antti P|ll{nen ([email])


author: Michael Hermann

subject: Where to get project Angel and No ?

text:
Hi,

where can I get those demos ? haven't found them on hornet last
time I checked..

  -Mike


author: [redacted]

text:
\In <[email]>, Todd M Zimnoch <[email]> writes:
\>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos: 15-Mar-95 Re: Project Angel
\>Sucks BIG.. by [email]
\>> After all you don't judge a movie on the basis of it's national
\>> origin.
\>
\>    Why not?  Nationalism is fun and exciting.  :-)
\>
\>    Being used to the unusually high quality (and quantity) of movies in
\>the states, I've found very few foreign films to be of interest.
\>
\>    Erendira, Como Agua Para Chocolate, The Satyricon, anything by
\>Ingmar Bergmann, a few titles by Jan Svankmejer, four weddings and a
\>funeral, the crying game (got sick of capitalization)...  I'm running
\>dry on foreign films that I appreciated.
\>
\>    There are things that you begin to expect of a film comming from a
\>certain country.  i.e. American movies should have had a big budget
\>supporting them, movies form central america generally employ
\>surrealistic imagery.  Then again I'm equating more "artful" movies with
\>"entertaining" movies.
\>
\>    There is also something you come to expect with demos from certain
\>countries.  i.e.  American demos don't have the most awesome coding
\>you've seen.  I think it's nice that the French have established a
\>reputation for the quality of demos that French people can produce.
\>
\>Kneebiter
\>3/15/95
Hey I never said the french couldn't code a demo. I'm just saying you shouldn't judge
anything on the basis of where it comes from. Lord knows I have never seen a decently
coded American demo (anybody got any ideas where I could find one) but if I had
I wouldn't say it was better than one from Finland of France if it wasn't.

The fact is I honestly beleave that Nooon's No is MUCH better than Project Angel in both
design, code, and execution and therefore should have won the competition (period).


author: trash

text:
About Project Angel;

The jury on The Party fucked up completely. They didn't manage to
maintain a fair voting, and decided to announce the winner themselves.
Sure, this COULD have worked out just fine. Unfortunatly, it didn't.

The jury was consisted of members that should never have been allowed to
be there in the first place. This is NOT a personal attack on Zteel of
Diffusion, but what the fuck was he doing in a competition jury? The man
is a sysop, and have never programmed a demo, made graphics for a demo or
anything else that is worth mentioning.

How can a sysop, apparently with no creative ablillities, judge the work
of demofreaks?

Bottom line is: Stop blaming Impact Studios for their demo. I agree with
the people saying that it should never have won, but it is a remarkable
piece of art, anyhow.

Blame certain jury members instead, they were the ones to fuck up a good
competition.

Sun Dancer / Razor 1911 & Eye-Q


subject: Re: Where to get project Angel and No ?

text:
--
In article <3k6dt0$[email]>, [email] (Michael Hermann) writes:
|> where can I get those demos ? haven't found them on hornet last
|> time I checked..

ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/demos/alpha/NEW I guess.

(ftp.luth/se:/pub/msdos/demos/alpha/NEW)

HTH, herve


text:
In <3kmefk$[email]>, [email] (trash) writes:

Do you really mean, that only demo-coders or graphicians can give a correct
vote about a demo? I'm a real demo-freak since late '92, but 'only' a sysop
of a Fido-board in Berlin. But I think, I can say if a demo is worth looking
it or not. And personally I mean also, that 'Project Angel' is a fine piece of
art :-)

Greetings from Berlin,
Michael Menz

See ya at The Gathering '95 in Stavanger, Norway?


author: Zolotukhin, Alex

text:
In article <3kmefk$[email]> [email] (trash) writes:

Hmmm.....I think that there is something you don't understand about the
demoscene. Demos don't have to be judged by coders, musician, grfx artists,
etc... They have to be judged by people who know demos and understand what to
look for in one. If you were looking at the code of a demo, then yes, only a
coder could correctly judge it and no1 else, but when you actually looking at
what's shown on the screen, you don't have to be coder or musician to say:
"Yes, this demo should take the first place!".

Btw, saying that a person is a demo group has no creative abillities is quite
stupid IMO. Yes, sysops don't take part in making demos (allthough some, like
Zteel do), but handling a BBS is enough of work allready, and it can't be
done by anyone else in a group.

with >the people saying that it should never have won, but it is a remarkable

Don't blame ANYONE!!! What happened has happened, and it's in the past! There
is no way you can change it now! Please stop this thread! It has been around
for too long....

Later,

 ï¿½  NeXuS / Pure Resistance  ï¿½
     ï¿½ Musician / Coder ï¿½
     ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½


author: Tomi Aarnio

text:
trash ([email]) wrote:

	Most of the party audience (ie. the voters) don't have
	creative abilities any greater than this certain sysop.
	Most of the audience are members of no-name groups or no
	group at all. Most of the audience have not produced any
	code, graphics or music worth mentioning.

	Still each and every one of them is qualified to vote.

	Besides - in the end, everyone at parties (including you)
	votes on what they SEE and HEAR, not thinking any further.
	The public does not consider file sizes or whether or not
	something is precalculated; they see a demo on the screen
	and if it makes them go "whoaa" they vote for it. Simple
	as that.

	I think it deserved to win. I completely agree with the top5.

  -- dev/emf


author: Benjamin Petersen

text:
[email] (trash) writes:

Hmmm, Sun Dancer, I used to beleve that you changed you handle 'twize'.
And now you'r back with the old name :=)

How is it going with your board ? Still running ?

(sorry off tropic)

About PA i really like it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- > Benjamin Petersen alias BUGSY of OBSESSION. E-mail [email] < -----
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


author: Rene Vinding Christensen

text:
[email] (trash) wrote:

You are talking about something that you do not know anything about.

Let me tell what happened.

The amiga organizers fucked up. They showed the demos in the wrong order,
mixing everything, in general just fucking everything possible up. The
PC organizers, Red Scorpion & Assembly Organizing Inc., took over and
the compo started all over. Unfortunately many people had already gone
sleeping, so they voted on what they saw. Thats good, no problem there,
the problem was that the order of the demos were wrong, and they voted
on the wrong demos.

Half way through the counting, Yodel comes to Red Scorpion, saying that
something is wrong, their demo could not get that many votes. After looking
into it, discussing it with some of the demogroups around, the counting
of the PC demo compo cancelled and the backup solution was started.

That backup solution was getting 6 demoscene members, all fairly known,
to judge the demos and evaluate the results.

Hah.. Who should??  You??  I have heard of no complains about the
jury from any demoscene freaks.

But to be fair, we might have to mention that you for some reason
have been saying some nasty things about me around the danish scene.
Not that anyone listens to that.

Have you ever thought of ASKING me??

How about you shut your mouth and started to pay some respect to the
demoscene, instead of bullshitting??

I have participated in several demos and intros, mostly by grafix and
design, I have arranged demoparties, have Denmarks biggest collection
of demos - yeah, I probably know nothing about demos. Oh, did I mention
that I have actually been involved with a couple of games as well?

Is this not what you would call a personal attack??

I am a WRITER foremost! I write poetry, I write lyrics, I write novels
and I write essays. I DESIGN games, demos and intros (not to mention
DISKMAGS, a real one) and I, I do NOT have any creative abilities!?

This is too funny. I am not a demofreak .. Hmm, you know what, remember
the first time you called my board??

A warez d00d who was so proud that he was a member of Dominators. You
wouldnt give me your address and when I chatted and asked for it, you
started calling me a lamer, that if I did not let you into my board, I
would loose a DOMINATORS member as user. Remember??

Look jack ass, you dont even know what the hell I voted !?

Who says that I didn't vote No! as the first, and P.A. as second!?

Btw: what about Pfusuus / PsychoSquad, is he not a capable member of
a jury??  He is also a sysop, as some of you might know.

Trust me, sysops are better than small time warez lamers in a jury.

Yours, Zteel of Diffusion & New World Order Magazine

Ohh, by the way, if you are one of those lamers who think that
organizers have nothing to do in a demogroup, you obviously know
nothing about real demogroups. No, not warez groups, DEMO groups.


text:
In <3l1t6a$[email]>, [email] (Tomi Aarnio) writes:

That's right. The code of a demo can be really good, but when on
the screen nothing of interest is going on or the music is shit, then
nobody will vote for it. The problem is that you will never vote for
the quality of coding, but only for that what happens on the screen.
Greetings from Berlin,
Michael Menz

See ya at The Gathering '95 in Stavanger, Norway?


text:
: Hah.. Who should??  You??  I have heard of no complains about the
: jury from any demoscene freaks.

No. I have no intentions of spending my time on a party judging the work
of others - that simple. I am a demoscene freak, and you heard complaints.

: But to be fair, we might have to mention that you for some reason
: have been saying some nasty things about me around the danish scene.
: Not that anyone listens to that.

What rumours, things and to whom? Get a life little fella, I have better
things to do than spread rumours about you. You flatter yourself to much.

: > but what the fuck was he doing in a competition jury?

: Have you ever thought of ASKING me??

I did just a while ago. Everyone knows that you are extremely active on
the PC demoscene, just look at internet, GSN and DGi. Often when I
collect my mail, one third of the messges is from you. Do you really
think that I had any doubts, whether or not you would see my post?

: How about you shut your mouth and started to pay some respect to the
: demoscene, instead of bullshitting??

I am. I have been involved with fractions of the demoscene ever since
1985. But let me ask you, do you consider YOU as the demoscene. Wow, what
a god-complex. What basis do you have for saying that I don't show
respect to the demoscene?

: I have participated in several demos and intros, mostly by grafix and
: design, I have arranged demoparties, have Denmarks biggest collection
: of demos - yeah, I probably know nothing about demos. Oh, did I mention
: that I have actually been involved with a couple of games as well?

: > How can a sysop, apparently with no creative ablillities,

: Is this not what you would call a personal attack??

No.

: I am a WRITER foremost! I write poetry, I write lyrics, I write novels
: and I write essays. I DESIGN games, demos and intros (not to mention
: DISKMAGS, a real one) and I, I do NOT have any creative abilities!?

Seen in relation to the demoscene, you have no creative abillites. I
write aswell, and hope to get as breakthrough. But in relation to the
demoscene, that means jackshit. Since you can't draw, code or compose,
you are in no position to judge demos on a party. Thanks to people like
you, I feel that the wrong people won money, and that people who deserved
to win didn't.

: > judge the work of demofreaks?

: This is too funny. I am not a demofreak .. Hmm, you know what, remember
: the first time you called my board??

: A warez d00d who was so proud that he was a member of Dominators. You
: wouldnt give me your address and when I chatted and asked for it, you
: started calling me a lamer, that if I did not let you into my board, I
: would loose a DOMINATORS member as user. Remember??

No. Like I have said many times before, I had nothing to do with that.
Remember? I have been in some of the worlds best demogroup on the c64, a
computer still capable of setting remarkable standards. I know how the
demoscene works, and how the waresscene works. Which is why I am a member
of both. Pretty simple, isn't it?

: > Blame certain jury members instead, they were the ones to fuck up a good
: > competition.
: Look jack ass, you dont even know what the hell I voted !?

I love it when people can't communicate, other than using abusive
language. Then I know that meaningful communication, as I know it, has
come to an end. But hey, keep trying.

: Who says that I didn't vote No! as the first, and P.A. as second!?
: Btw: what about Pfusuus / PsychoSquad, is he not a capable member of
: a jury??  He is also a sysop, as some of you might know.

In my oppinion, no. I just mentioned you as an example, and clearly
stated that this was not an attack on you as a person. Too bad you can't
read and understand plain english.

: Trust me, sysops are better than small time warez lamers in a jury.

If you see any "smalltime warez lamers" around, please tell this to them.
They might be interrested.

: Ohh, by the way, if you are one of those lamers who think that
: organizers have nothing to do in a demogroup, you obviously know
: nothing about real demogroups. No, not warez groups, DEMO groups.

I have never mentioned such. I am organizer of one of Denmarks newest
demogroups, aswell as a member of one ofd the worlds greatest
crackinggroups. To repeat myself: I have been in various forms of the
demoscene ever since 1985, and I doubt that you can teach me anything
about. Furthermore you are trying to put words in my mouth, I never
mentioned anything about organizers.

To me, it looks like you are running out of arguments, of course other
than phrases of disrespect. Many people have used this trick against me,
but you might get lucky if you try hard enopugh.

Sun Dancer / Razor 1911 & Eye-Q


text:
Rene Vinding Christensen <[email]> wrote:

Ohh I forgot:

Let me tell you THE most important reason why Red Scorpion asked me
to join the jury.

I have been the most aggresively opponent of The Party. Such a fuckup
in the voting would more than likely result in a heavy bombardement
from me about bad organizing. To prevent that from anyone, hey, why
not let our "enemy" number one make sure that the jury is fair?

Do you understand?? Just a tiny tiny bit??

Zteel / DFN, NWO


text:
[email] (trash) wrote:

You know what, I really dont want to waste my time. You are extremely
unpopular in the danish demoscene, and I wonder why.

No one really wants to waste any time on you and your lies.

Actually, without drawing anyone else into this, I have recieved a
letter in which someone suggest that we visit your house and beat you
up a little. But I really wouldnt want to waste my time on you.

Yeah, hotshot demogroup since '87 .. You were 12 years old, get a life.

Razor 1911 is nothing but a warez group. They are so lame, no good
warez traders who wants to make a living on selling pirate warez.

Stop your lies, we aren't interested.

Ohh by the way, apparently you have some hard problems with reading.
How many times do I have to write that I do graphics and design? And
that is not creative?  Okay .. Just wanted to know ..

Tsk tsk, warez lamers should stick to their k00l trading and leave the
demoscene alone.

Zteel / Diffusion - A demogroup, not a lame WaReZ group.


text:
: Let me tell you THE most important reason why Red Scorpion asked me
: to join the jury.

: I have been the most aggresively opponent of The Party. Such a fuckup
: in the voting would more than likely result in a heavy bombardement
: from me about bad organizing. To prevent that from anyone, hey, why
: not let our "enemy" number one make sure that the jury is fair?

I don't care. Fact is that you as a sysop, and a person with no apparent
creative abillities, should never have been allowed to join that jury.
Simple as that. Next year, I will refuse to join any competition if
people like yourself are in the jury; Would you want an unqualified
teacher judgin your exam-project? I wouldn't, and I don't want anyone
with no artistic abillities judging the work I have put a lot of effort into.

: Do you understand?? Just a tiny tiny bit??

Unlike you, obviously, I am not stupid. Please think before you post in
the future, from what I hear from a lot of sides, it would actually do
some good for everyone.

Sun Dancer / Razor 1911


text:
[email] (trash) wrote:

Yes, fact is that I am a sysop. And my users tell me that I am a good
one, I am proud to say.

Naturally, sysops are stupid. They dont know anything about demos.

Apparent??  You mean that apparently sysops have no creative abilities,
and instead of finding out if this particular sysop has or not, you
just start flaming him??

Correct, someone who knows nothing of demos should not be in a jury.
Everyone knows that. Why do you think I was asked to join?

Because I am a stupid sysop who knows nothing about it?

Perhaps you dont know, but I didnt ASK to be in the jury, Red Scorpion
asked me to help him out, if I would be in the jury and help selecting
the best demos. He wanted someone who knew about demos and was fair and
objective.

Red Scorpion and I have had many fights, as most know, still he asks
me to join the jury, a jury which he is responsible for, if he did not
find me qualified for the job?

Hahaha, well, I dont really think that matters. You have yet to come
up with something that would even be shown on the big screen. And since
you are just a rumours spreading trader, I dont really see the problem.

Hahahah, you really amuse me. You really do :)

You know what, you continue to say how I know nothing about demos, but
when I tell you what I know, you simply wont listen. You have yet to
answer my first posting, where I explained what knowledge I have in
demos. And why the hell didnt you ASK me what I know about it, and what
I can do!?

I have no creative abilities, but let me repeat myself once more.

I am a writer foremost, I write poetry, short stories, novels and
essays. I am a designer, I design games, demos and intros, I am also,
believe it or not, a small time graphician, who, thank god, have produced
more grafix in productions than you have ever done.

Dont you come here complaining about lack of knowledge, just because
your own knowledge is so limited, that you dont even know what it is
that I do.

Zteel / Diffusion & New World Order Magazine


text:
: > Simple as that. Next year, I will refuse to join any competition if
: > people like yourself are in the jury;

: Hahaha, well, I dont really think that matters. You have yet to come
: up with something that would even be shown on the big screen. And since
: you are just a rumours spreading trader, I dont really see the problem.

Oh, I forgot. The first demo I ever participated in on the PC, was given
a 4th place. Furthermore I am a graphician, and have been so for years.
You talk about subjects you have no knowledge about, whatsoever.

: You know what, you continue to say how I know nothing about demos, but
: when I tell you what I know, you simply wont listen. You have yet to
: answer my first posting, where I explained what knowledge I have in
: demos. And why the hell didnt you ASK me what I know about it, and what
: I can do!?

I have never said that you knw nothing about demos, learn how to read. If
you actually is capable of reading, then stop putting words in my mouth.
I said that you, as a sysop "only", cannot judge the work of creative
demofreaks. I still believe that I am right. This could easily turn into
a great ragwar, but is that what this newsgroup was meant to be about?

: I have no creative abilities, but let me repeat myself once more.

: I am a writer foremost, I write poetry, short stories, novels and
: essays. I am a designer, I design games, demos and intros, I am also,
: believe it or not, a small time graphician, who, thank god, have produced
: more grafix in productions than you have ever done.

I doubt it. I have made games since 1987, and is still involved in
several software companies. Another argument you failed to control, when
will you learn?

: Dont you come here complaining about lack of knowledge, just because
: your own knowledge is so limited, that you dont even know what it is
: that I do.

I don't. If you CAN read, please try to read the above mentioned.

Sd / Razor 1911 & Eye-Q


author: Pete

subject: TCP RST and why that might happen

text:
Anyone have a clue as to why a connection I create with a server would cause
a TCP RST to be sent from the server? Here's the gist.

I am working on a Gaim client for exchange messenging. Currently, I can send
a message to the server, but all I get back is the TCP RST on port 80. I at
first assumed it was a bad message, but if I send an identical message to
one the actual MS client sends (retrieved using ethereal), I get the same
behavior. I assume then it's a problem with my setup. Not sure what though.
Anyone have a suggestion?


author: Michael Fuhr

subject: Re: TCP RST and why that might happen

text:
Pete <[email]> writes:

If one client consistently works (MS) and another doesn't (yours),
then compare packet dumps from each and look for what's different.
If you can't figure it out then post both dumps so we can see what's
happening.


author: Måns Rullgård

subject: Re: TCP RST and why that might happen

text:
Pete <[email]> writes:

TCP RST usually means the other end closed the connection, or refused
a connect().  Does the server accept the connection, and close it when
you send a message?  Are you sure there isn't a regular web server
running on port 80?  Sending something other than HTTP requests there
would probably cause it to close the connection.


subject: Re: TCP RST and why that might happen

text:
Tauno Voipio <[email]> writes:

Maybe, but there's not enough information to say for sure.  He says
he can send a message but all he gets back is RST -- does that mean
that the original three-way handshake was successful and it's later
that he gets the RST?  Or does it mean that he sent SYN but got RST
in response?  Seeing tcpdump or tethereal output from the good and
bad connections might shed some light on what's happening.


subject: Re: TCP RST and why that might happen

text:
Michael Fuhr wrote:

Sorry, can't post an ethereal session, I would have to scrub out most all of
content to protect the servers I'm communicating with. And this is all
inside the corporate firewall.

Essentially, it works like this. It's an RVP protocol plugin for Gaim to
talk exchange messenging.

Client -> Server (SUBSCRIBE message) (works)
Server -> Client (302 New_Server) (expected)
Client -> New_Server (SUBSCRIBE) (works)
Server -> Client (401 NTLM Auth required) (expected)
Client -> New_Server (SUBSCRIBE NTLM Negotiate)

This is where it all dies. The message is sent, but the server never
responds and I get the TCP RST instead. In another post, someone mentioned
that this can happen if the server closes the associated connection, but I
can't understand why that might happen. Comparisons between the MS client
and my client via Ethereal both show essentially the same message going out
to the server (NTLM payload is different, but not by much), but mine is
ignored, the MS client obviously works. I've also heard that later versions
of MS software will ignore an NTLM handshake if it doesn't come from an MS
client. I wonder if that's what's happening.


author: Alan Kilian

subject: Re: TCP RST and why that might happen

text:
In article <cpaagt$2m0$[email]>, Pete  <[email]> wrote:

Pete,

    What kind of hardware are you running Linux on?

    Could this be some king of big-endian vs little-endian problem
    in the formatting of the exact byte contents of the message?

    I would suggest looking at the exact differences between the two
    packets and verifying that the differences are precisely what should
    be expected.

                            -Alan


author: Tommy Troll

subject: IE issue - issue solved

text:
Hi all

OK, I had a problem with Vista.

For about the last month I was having issues with IE randomly freezing
when clicking on a hyperlink.  Like 5 or 6 times a day.  Aggravating
to say the very least.  Finally, I went out to the MS IE site and did
seach on frequent issues.  The first hit led me through a series of
actions that have fixed the problem.  No need to reload the OS, run
Regedit, or even reboot.  A simple fix that took all of 3 minutes and
meant that I lost all my cookies, cache and customized settings.  Sort
of like trashing prefs in OS X x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.  Took
another 5 minutes to reset the home page and a few web sites that use
cookies need to be fixed. No major issue.

Gotta love MS.

TT


author: Chance Furlong

subject: Re: IE issue - issue solved

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 Tommy Troll <[email]> wrote:

Time for you to switch from Microskank to Apple or Linux. Looks like you
are finding out that Windoze is a bitch.


subject: Re: IE issue - issue solved

text:
On Dec 23, 9:43 pm, Chance Furlong <[email]> wrote:

Huh?  A Linux setup is a walk in the park?


author: Joe

subject: Re: Windows 95 sucks? In what way?

text:
Not quite true.  If a Win16 app locks a needed resource (i.e., in the 16-bit
Win95 core funtions GDI) all apps are suspended until it is released.  And of
course you don't get the memory protection on Win95 that you get on NT, but
that's a whole other issue.

I hated it myself.  I see no reason for anyone to upgrade unless there's a
Win95 app you need.  After all it's still architecturally very similar to
DOS/Win 3.x, there's just no advantage for 16-bit apps.

Joe


author: Jerry Stuckle

subject: Re: Digital Camera Image Transfer Utility

text:
Ken,

That's because he has the wrong domain name.  It should be:

 http://www.btsoftware.com/os2/dcitu.htm

Ken wrote:


author: Nanoka

subject: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
How can i add Dec to Winter Type? I still want Jan<Dec.

{Type

    Month=(Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec);

    Spring=Mar..May;

    Summer= Jun..Aug;

    Autum= Sep..Nov;

    Winter= Jan..Feb;}


author: Dr John Stockton

subject: Re: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
JRS:  In article <c9f6ov$djq$01$[email]>, seen in
news:comp.lang.pascal.borland, Nanoka <[email]>
posted at Mon, 31 May 2004 14:03:49 :

You cannot; re-design.

Using

  type TMonth =
    (DEK, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec);

will get the Ord() of the month equal to its conventional number

  function M11(const M : TMonth) : TMonth ;
    begin M11 := TMonth(Ord(M) mod 12) end {M11} ;
// or   if M=Dec then M11 := DEK else M11 := M end ...

may then be useful; with

  type TSeason = (Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn) ;

one has    Season := TSeason(M12(M) div 3) ;

Arrange that any operation on a variable of type TMonth gives the same
answer for DEK and Dec; normalise with

  function M12(const M : TMonth) : TMonth ;
    begin if M=DEK then M12 := Dec else M12 := M end {M12} ;

Untested.


author: P. Scott Harris

subject: Re: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
I'm not sure what your intent is but this seems to work (but it may not be
what you want). The 'Borland Pascal Language Guide 7.0'  (pg 74) talks about
comparing sets.

{-----------------------}
Type
  Month = set of (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov,
Dec);

const
  calendar : array[Jan..Dec] of string[3] =
             ('Jan','Feb','Mar','Apr','May','Jun','Jul',
              'Aug','Sep','Oct','Nov','Dec');

var
  spring : month ;
  summer : month ;
  autumn : month ;
  winter : month ;
  test   : month ;

begin
  Spring := [Mar..May];
  Summer := [Jun..Aug];
  Autumn := [Sep..Nov];
  Winter := [Jan..Feb,Dec];

  test := [Dec] ;
  if ( test <= Winter ) then
    Writeln( calendar[Dec],' is in Winter' ) ;
  test := [Jan] ;
  if ( test <= Winter ) then
    Writeln( calendar[Jan],' is in Winter' ) ;
  test := [Feb] ;
  if ( test <= Winter ) then
    Writeln( calendar[Feb],' is in Winter' ) ;
end.

Regards,

P. Scott Harris

"Nanoka" <[email]> wrote in message
news:c9f6ov$djq$01$[email]...


subject: Re: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
JRS:  In article <[email]>, seen in
news:comp.lang.pascal.borland, Marco van de Voort <[email]>
posted at Tue, 1 Jun 2004 04:27:10 :

That's how the OP defined it.  He posts from T-Online.de, and so is
probably no more Anglo-Saxon than you are.

Not always; sometimes adjacent day is the longest, I think; and the
longest day can be in December.

See  <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/moredate.htm#Sea>.

Using set operations is helpful.


subject: Re: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
Thank you all for the feedback and for seeing that the community is active.

"Nanoka" <[email]> wrote in message
news:c9f6ov$djq$01$[email]...


author: Marco van de Voort

subject: Re: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
On 2004-05-31, Dr John Stockton <[email]> wrote:

Hmm, is it like that in the Anglo-Saxon world?

Here the seasons don't start on jan 1st, april 1st etc, but
on Dec 21st, march 21st, june 21st

(which is afaik acocrding to the solar calendar, since june 21st is the
longest day)


author: Markus Humm

subject: Re: Any clever way of doing this?

text:
Dr John Stockton schrieb:
[snip ]
But even in germany here we define seasons like you do!
He probably wants to do it the other way because of simplicity...

Greetings

Markus


author: torero

subject: Hiding ip with proxy

text:
with all the talk of file sharing going away, i would think people are
going to try and go around the issue with a proxy. but this shouldn't
offer too much protection, would it?

 if they ip address is traced to the proxy, can it then be traced back
to the isp and the customer?  i would think so?


author: Walter Roberson

subject: Re: Hiding ip with proxy

text:
In article <[email]>,
torero <[email]> wrote:
: if they ip address is traced to the proxy, can it then be traced back
:to the isp and the customer?  i would think so?

It depends on the records kept by the proxy. And some people chain
through multiple proxies, knowing that anyone wanting to track them
down would likely have to get court orders against each of the services,
at least for a civil case.

[I would -suspect- that in a criminal case, a judge with the
appropriate jurisdiction would authorize a "john doe" warrant that
could be used to trace through multiple sites. But people who don't
want to be found thread the chain through multiple countries, since it
is difficult to get a multi-country search warrant.]


author: speeder

subject: Re: Hiding ip with proxy

text:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:35:26 -0700, "torero" <[email]> wrote:

There are direct dangers to using open proxies even for payed proxies
some would argue.

There are much better ways to hide your IP for p2p purposes than using
a proxy. Development is in the early stages but eventually I think
it's going to come through. Take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_p2p

And there are Darknets as well...
http://www.darknet.com/darknets/


author: David Alex Lamb

subject: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
We're missing players for several characters, I'd appreciate it if you'd fill
me in, either here or via mail to my gmail account, which is david alex lamb
with dots in place of spaces (or run together, which they consider equivalent
for some reason).

?  Character  M/F Race   Class       Vocation   Player
   Adanthar       Elf    Champion
   Aislyn       F Human  Minstrel               CelesteB
X  Aneas          Elf    Minstrel               rumbledor
X  Aramintha      Hobbit Burglar                Peter
   Belraen        Elf    Hunter      Woodsman   Nostromo
   Benjack        Human  Champion    Historian  jglazier
   Braveheart     Hobbit Burglar                Nostromo
A  Carriona     F Human  Lore Master Historian  Nostromo
   Celedwen     F Human  Champion               CelesteB
   Celedwyn     F Elf    Lore Master Woodsman   CelesteB
   Celewyn      F Elf    Hunter      Historian  CelesteB
   Cheerie      F Hobbit Burglar     Explorer   CelesteB
   Ealadgifu    F Human  Lore Master            dalamb
   Elardiel     F Elf    Huntress               dalamb
A  Eledhril       Elf    Lore Master Historian  chainbreaker
   Fido           Hobbit Burglar     Armourer
   Finaedros      Elf    Guardian    Armourer   weretable
   Fyre           Human  Guardian    Explorer
A  Gadoin       M Dwarf  Guardian    Armourer   dalamb
   Galadhrian     Human  Hunter      Explorer
   Geneviel       Human  Hunter      Huntsman   marcel.beaudoin
A  Happenstance   Human  Hunter      Tinker     Peter
   Holkath      M Dwarf  Minstrel    Tinker
   Inioch         Human  Burglar     Armsman
X  Jirrel         Elf    Lore Master            Peter
   Jocewyn        Human  Guardian    Tinker     chainbreaker
X  Johannwen             Hunter                 pdwMT
   Lodello        Hobbit Minstrel    Explorer
X  Mooglorin      Elf    Champion               marcel.beaudoin
   Morwenreth     Elf    Minstrel    Explorer   chainbreaker
   Nostromo       Human  Hunter                 Nostromo
   Pellamore      Human  Champion    Armsman    murphydonj
   Rebecca        Human  Champion    Armsman    m2
   Ridge          Human  Captain     Tinker     rridge
   Rosalinda    F Hobbit Burglar                dalamb
   Shaeriel       Elf    Lore Master Tinker     weretable
   Shinglhia    F Elf    Hunter      Explorer   drybones
   Sildarean    F Elf    Hunter                 sheldonengland
   Talbo          Hobbit Burglar                weretable
   Tamwin         Human  Captain     Armourer
   Thragrim     M Dwarf  Guardian    Tinker
   Tinutharaen  F Elf    Minstrel    Historian  dalamb
   Wenrist        Human  Hunter      Woodsman
   Wrothoak     M Dwarf  Guardian               drybones

Here's the vocation/profession list.  Sevearl more Armourers since last time,
and I guess Yeoman is totally unattractive.

Vocation        Count
Armourer        4
Armsman         3
Explorer        6
Historian       5
Tinker          6
Woodsman        3
Yeoman          0

Profession      Count
Cook            6
Farmer          9
Forester        9
Jeweler         6
Metalsmith      4
Prospector      19
Scholar         6
Tailor          10
Weaponsmith     9
Woodworker      6


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
I may be a bit slow to update for a few days -- put my back out on Sunday, and
from past experience it may be 2-3 more chiropractor visits before it's
better.  Sitting in a computer chair is fairly comfortable, but I have to use
ice every couple of hours, which slows me down.


author: chainbreaker

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

Fido and Wenrist are my children, too.  :-)


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

Yuck--I feel for you.  When the old back goes, *everything* goes.
Condolences and wish you a speedy recovery.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
chainbreaker <[email]> wrote:

And Wrothoak belongs to drybones.  So we're left with

Adanthar
Fyre
Galadhrian
Holkath
Inioch
Lodello
Tamwin
Thragrim

for whom I don't have an owner.  I realize some of these may have been
mentioned on this newsgroup; I just mean I don't have them in my spreadsheet.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
chainbreaker <[email]> wrote:

I feel utterly ridiculous not being able to pick the mail up from the floor --
it's not the weight, it's the pressure on the "Nth Lumbar" when I try to bend.


author: Ross Ridge

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Michael Cecil  <[email]> wrote:

While Celeste ment that he was her actual, real-life, son, apparently
you can somehow adopt sons and daughters in the game.

Nope.

Yes.

Sorta.  By using certian of your skills so many times you can complete a
class-specific deed which will give a trait which you can equip on your
character and will give you some sort of special bonus.

Monter Play is available once you reach level 10 and use a fell scrying
pool found in major towns.  It's essentially the "PK" kind that you
consent to by either playing a monster or entering the zone where the
player controlled monsters are.

No.

					Ross Ridge


author: Elmer

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
[email] (David Alex Lamb) wrote in
news:f0e0o3$1bq$[email]:

I joined yesterday - dwarf hunter Boli, not to be confused with my third-cousin Bolli who left
home at an early age to lead the life of an NPC.  After playing 3 or 4 other dwarf hunters
named Boli during the betas, you'd think I'd be getting tired of this game by now...


author: weretable and the undead chairs

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
[email] (David Alex Lamb) wrote:

One of mine.


author: CelesteB

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On 21 Apr 2007 21:46:43 GMT, [email] (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

Tamwin is my son.

Celeste (working on patching the game)

"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


author: Nostromo

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Thus spake [email] (David Alex Lamb), 21 Apr 2007 21:46:43
GMT, Anno Domini:

Fyre, Holkath, Inioch & Sabel(not on there yet), is my colleague from work
(not a csipgrer). To protect his anonymity, let's call him "carefactor0" ;)
(that's his email prefix/nick).


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On 23 Apr 2007 15:23:24 GMT, [email] (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

I've learned this really attractive squat, spread legs and bend over
to avoid agitating those areas <g> Makes a great target as the kids go
by.

Ice packs have helped me but here during the 10 month winter here, I
hate to use it. The heating pad puts me to sleep in about 15 minutes
:)

I hope you feel better soon!
"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

Heh, the overall arthritic problems and spurs I have growing pretty much
everywhere causes my back to go out too, occasionally, when a spur whams the
right nerve bundle.  Several years ago when all this stuff was new to me I
had that happen for the first time on the stairs coming home (split
foyer--*nasty* house design).  I went down--fortunately didn't quite
fall--and there I was.
Couldn't go up.
Couldn't go down.
I was just there.
And hurting.
Badly.

So naturally I just began laughing hysterically.  It wasn't long before I
was finally able to literally crawl up and to bed, and once I got there,
that's where I stayed for the next few days, except for the excruciating
trips to the bathroom.  Heh, you know it's bad when you begin to wish for a
catheter.

But that eventually passed, sort of, and I don't have that particular
problem much any more since everything else has more or less assured I can't
do anything much to cause it.

At any rate, it's on the list of those things that you can't understand
until you've been there yourself, which is why my condolences and wishes for
quick recovery are *really* sincere.  :-)


author: Michael Cecil

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:32:18 -0400, Ross Ridge
<[email]> wrote:

Well, that was one of the neater things in UO but at least we won't be
seeing eyesore housing shoulder to shoulder all over the place.

Ah yeah, I figured that out since there is a repair option when you're at
a shop.

Weird.

I've got a ways to go I guess before I can try that out.

Annoying.  So much can be configured but not the font size?  Oh well...


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
weretable and the undead chairs wrote:

All of this should settle down a bit after release as ppl settle into
their mains. Though there'll always be the altoholics ;)


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 22:46:31 GMT, [email]
(CelesteB) wrote:

Son?  You can have offspring in LotRO?  I guess there's a lot I don't know
yet.  I'm still getting used to the interface as I run around Archet (sp?)

Hmmm...okay here are some basic questions for you folks:

Can you own a house or property?

Do items wear out and break?

Besides the special moves you can buy from a trainer, can you develop
skills by practicing them?

I take it there is Monster Play when you get killed, but is there regular
PvP?  Is it consensual or the PK kind?

Is there a config file where you can change the screen font and force the
login to remember your password?


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Nostromo wrote:

And I had a nice long beneficial discussion with him about a certain
colleague of his yesterday--you didn't happen to wake up around midnight
with your ears burning, did you, hmmmm?


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
CelesteB <[email]> wrote:

Well, you have it much worse than me (and drybones does too, IIRC).  My
chiropractor insists that cold helps reduce the inflammation long term, and
that heat isn't good for that.  Besides, the icing is supposed to last no more
than 15 minutes, so it doesn't interfere with my getting to sleep.  The pain
does, but not the ice.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Thus spake "chainbreaker" <[email]>, Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:37:58
-0400, Anno Domini:

I'm feeling....sick after reading that CB. Thanks. :-/


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Michael Cecil wrote:

That was my first thought :)

Works well & gives you a fun reason to explore places or 'grind'
critters. I rather like the Deed system & so do a lot of others. It's
one of the differentiating factors in lotro that sets it apart from
other mmorpgs, though by no means the most important one in my books.

Level 10 should be a breeze to get to. Mind you, you can then start a
50th lvl Orc (3 flavours) or a Warg or Spider to go chew on hobbitses,
yum. The MP is only PvE at the mo, as there are no lvl 40+ PCs until
probably about 6hrs after release lol.

Might be something under options (CTRL-O). You're the 1st person to say
anything about the fonts. At 1280x1024 I (& obviously everyone else)
think they're pretty good/readable.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Nostromo wrote:

That's me, and I'm beginning to get really stressed about that, too.  I may
not even have a "main" in this game--of course if I don't I can wave adios
to everybody else . . . what to do, what to do?


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Michael Cecil wrote:

ROFL! I think she meant in RL :)))

But yes, you can actually have multiple generations of chars with the
same family name in the game. Not sure about marriages, kids or how
Turbine will implement those, if at all.\

Not as yet to the best of my knowledge. It's just not that kinda game,
though it may be good for pure crafters.

Yup. But pretty slowly & the repair costs are negligible. Unless you die
(a lot). Then they hurt...a lot.

Yes & no. The last thing I personally want is a TES whack-a-mole system,
but there are Deeds which you collect, usually by exploring or killing X
critters, & get titles for or *Traits* with which you improve your
character in different ways. Some are just attribute/ability bonuses,
others (like my Elven "Sylvan Shadows" sneak racial trait) are
completely new skills for your char. It's actually a lot of fun to find
those last 1 or 2 places to complete a useful deed - doesn't feel like
grinding at all, probably because I'm a bit of the explorer type & like
to "fill in" the maps ;).

Only MP at this stage & totally consensual (though I don't think that's
a real word, even though we here use it a lot ;). It's almost an
entirely different PvE game as well, given you can play things like
Wargs & Giant Spiders. Mucho fun!!! Plus I can't wait to chew on those
nassstttyyyy hobbitses that dare to tresspass on my domain as part of
the full game :). In the full game you'll need to be at least 40th level
as a PC to enter into PVP MP.

Oh dear, I hope not. Take it from an IT professional of many years - bad
idea for oh so many reasons. Don't be a lazy git ;-p (or get a shorter
passwd)


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
chainbreaker wrote:

Hey, I'm his boss, so it's to be expected ;-p
So long as he does the work, does it well & makes me look good, he can
say whatever he likes behind my back <G>. Anyway, the team that plays
together stays together...? ;)


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Nostromo wrote:\

Heh, well--it's just such a surreal condition to be in . . . not being able
to move.  I guess that's why my first reaction was hysterical laughter.  Of
course my wife came running, and once I was able to get across to her what
was going on, she didn't laugh a damned bit.

The older you get the more you come to realize just exactly how much there
is that you can't know until you know it and what "ignorance is bliss"
*truly means.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
Nostromo  <[email]> wrote:

The rest of you are probably getting tired of us partially-crippleds talking
about aches and pains pretty soon.

Fortunately I'm still far from needing anything like surgery, let alone steel
pins.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:42:13 -0400, "chainbreaker" <[email]>
wrote:

I'm finding I don't have a main. I like them all! I'm just sort of
leveling them up evenly. I mean,  I call my hunter my main but two
more are around the same level.

I don't plan on barrelling through the game and at this rate, I won't
*g*

Celeste
"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <f0h9hv$fpt$[email]>,
Nostromo  <[email]> wrote:

I'd like to be able to store Frostmantle's Bane over my fireplace...


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
chainbreaker wrote:

Daymn, you should have yer own reality tv show CB. ;)


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

Ah, every once in a while I think it's good for a lot of the gang to know
what they might have to look forward to.  I consider talking about it a
public service.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
CelesteB wrote:

Heh, I've always been a hopeless altoholic, so my indecision here is nothing
new.


author: Paula

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

I think it would be fun in the game to get to own a house and put your
own stuff in it.  I guess that might be kind of like Sims in Middle
Earth.  LOL

	Paula


author: Xocyll

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
"chainbreaker" <[email]> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

And there's one small advantage to it all.

You never have trouble coming up with a password for a new game,
medication+dosage.

Got your capital letter, and numbers as well as lower case, all you
need.

Xocyll


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
chainbreaker <[email]> wrote:

Well, CelesteB's back problems started fairly young IIRC, so "not being old"
isn't necessarily much of a guarantee.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:38:21 -0400, "chainbreaker" <[email]>
wrote:

That one former WoW guy I was adventuring with asked what other chars
I had and he said I should have just stuck to one and I'd be at level
15 by now. But that wasn't my point....I wasn't in this to get to the
highest level first. I just want to get them to certain levels to
acquire a few better things...like my LM wants that bear, my hunter
wanted Penetrating Shot and well, Cheerie is just plain fun :) Now
when I'm ready to play something meatier, I'll level up my Champion oh
and I forgot my Minstrel...was thinking of getting her out this week
to go healing everyone so they know what the community should be like
;)

Celeste

"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Paula wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they introduced something along those
lines, so long as they can figure out a way to do it without hopelessly
overcrowding areas with structures.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Xocyll wrote:

Damn, I'm only on vitamins. Will have to go out now & get some harder
medication :-/.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On 24 Apr 2007 06:17:01 GMT, [email] (David Alex Lamb)
wrote:

Yeah, flying out of a car at 65 mph will do that :D Here's hoping that
once I stop having to heft kids around, there will be less wear and
tear :)

Celeste

"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

How well I know--first total hip, aged 43 and in the 12 years since you can
add the other hip and a shoulder, and likely more to come. All I can figure
is that when the genes for decent joints were distributed, I must have been
hiding behind a kidney or something.


author: drybones

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
"CelesteB" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

<Snipped>

For goodness sake kiddo, get that Minstrel out when you catch ole
Shing and Wrathoak on.

Then come along and them "ALIVE"  <grin><giggling to me self>

drybones


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
CelesteB wrote:

That's what it's all about--I'm only in a race with myself, and with two
steel hips I'm going nowhere fast. :-)


author: Justin H.

subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On the calendar, in the box marked 4/23/2007 7:40 AM ^ chainbreaker
scratched:

They did it successfully in AC, so you never know.  And you could mount
trophies on hooks (mounting points in the houses) for permanent display.

Justin H.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
CelesteB wrote:

Um, seems to me like you'd have known what causes that problem and how to
avoid it. . . . <cough>


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
chainbreaker wrote:

I was going to say "ROFLMAO", but it's not really funny, is it? Really? :-/


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
chainbreaker <[email]> wrote:

Ever have a bone density test for osteoporosis?


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:44:15 -0700, "drybones"
<[email]> wrote:

ok, ok, she's out of the intro and in Archet now. She could use a
friend :)

Celeste
"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:06:11 -0400, "chainbreaker" <[email]>
wrote:

I'll see your steel hips and meet it with  two steel rods in my back
<g> Aren't we a pair? :)

I like your non-munchkinism. I can be that way, but over the past
year, I've told myself just enjoy the darn thing and don't worry if
you didn't get Uberitem #15. I'll get through the game without that
Uberitem. With LOTRO, I'm finding I'm even more laid back. Crafting,
yeah, I'll do it but not be an expert. I'd rather spend that time
taking another character through.

I've taken a hobbit's attitude towards gaming and after staying in the
Shire, you can really mellow out. Cheerie just did lots of wondering
yesterday and prospecting because nobody was around.

Celeste

"Born to Rune" - T. Prachett


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Nostromo wrote:

In a perverted, twisted sort of way, it's had its humorous aspects.  Like
when I went to physical therapy after my second total hip which was around 5
years after the first one.  Several of the therapists obviously remembered
me from the first surgery and I was trying to figure out why.  Sure, my last
name is a bit uncommon, but it's not *that* distinctive that folks should
remember it some 5 years and probably thousands of patients later.

So I asked them why they remembered me and one of them said, "Oh, it's easy
to remember the unusual cases."

"Unusual?  What was so unusual about my case?  There wasn't anything that
had gone wrong was there?"

"Oh, no--it's just that we almost never see total hips as young as you. Most
of them are at least in their late 60s and 70s when they have something like
that."

Now *that's* funny.  Ha. Ha.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Nostromo <[email]> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

A sense of humor is almost required to survive dealing with pain and
such.
Not to mention the old aphorism "Laughter is the best medicine."
It doesn't cure anything but it can make enduring a bit easier.

Xocyll


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
David Alex Lamb wrote:

I think I've had every kind of test known to medical science and the verdict
is, there's nothing to do but wait for the joints to get bad enough and then
cut them out and stick in steel and teflon ones.  And it's not even
rheumatoid, it's osteoarthritis--which years ago when I was trying to find
out why I felt like the day after you'd just chopped wood all day all the
time, some doctors had the gall to tell me, "Oh, it's just osteo--it's not
the *crippling* kind of arthritis."

Hah.


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
CelesteB wrote:

Shhhhhh, I thought that was *my* secret--don't tell anybody.  :-)


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
Thus spake "chainbreaker" <[email]>, Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:45:49
-0400, Anno Domini:

Hilarious! Ahem. :-/


subject: Re: LotRO: Kinship update

text:
In article <[email]>,
chainbreaker <[email]> wrote:

Utter doctor crap; that's what my mother had, along with osteoporosis.


subject: Access-XP newbee!

text:
I want to teach myself Access projects. I bought Access2002 upgrade
and installed as typical in addition to prior releases...

If I want to try creating an Access project that has SQL Server
back-end. Do I need to purchase 'SQL Server 7', or is there code that
was installed that will allow me to do that???

Know of a book that will give me an overview of this stuff??? I also
want to learn how to create an Access application that will run on the
internet and allow me to link to it's database from a local database
for reporting and data retrieval...


author: Jason W. Paul

subject: Re: Access-XP newbee!

text:
May I suggest a better newsgroup:

comp.databases.ms-access

You'll find lotsa good stuff there.

To answer your questions: Access 2000 and XP(2002) come with
the MSDE -- a "scaled down" version of SQL Server. Nope -- you
don't have to purchase SQL Server separately. Depending on size
and number of users, you might want to though. MSDE does not do
well with large databases (limited to 2GB per database) and is not
suitable for more than a handful of users (it's got some sort of
governer
that limits it's scalability). If you purchase SQL Server separately,
you
won't be limited by these (and other) limitations of MSDE.

"Ron_A" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
that
the


author: David Hare-Scott

subject: Re: Access-XP newbee!

text:
"Jason W. Paul" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3e6cc560$0$76408$[email]...

To add to the good advice that Jason has given you, you will have to
explicitly install MSDE from the CD, it is not part of the standard
installation.  Once it is installed you have to start the server before
your project can use it, you can configure it to start at boot time.

David


author: [redacted]

subject: beep(good), then (boop) bad

text:
I stick my Xircom pcmcia ethernet in my thinkpad 760el running mandrake 7.2
and I get a high beep followed by a low beep.  "cardctl ident 0" returns
the appropriate name of the card, and I can't find any error messages in
the log files.  What the heck should I do now?  This is my first unix/linux
experience and I am quite clueless.  I leafed through the whole "pcmcia
howto" and It's basically over my head.  The answer may be there, but if it
is, I don't understand it.  Should I just try installing the latest version
of the Pcmcia card manager available at sourceforge?

Thanks for any pointers.


author: Roy B

subject: Re: beep(good), then (boop) bad

text:
Normally, a beep followed by a boop means that the card didn't initialize
correctly.
About 98 times out of 100 this seems to be due to an interrupt conflict.

Sometimes the answer is to provide parameters for the card's driver
instructing it
to try to use another interrupt.  Sometimes you just have to fiddle with
bios settings if
any are relevant.  (This latter case might be more applicable in a desktop
where you are using
a PCMCIA - PCI bridge card).  If you need to see how you specify parameters
like preferred interrupts to the Xircom driver type in man <name of driver>.
for example, on my system I type in man xirc2ps_cs.

I would suggest that the first thing you do is type in cat /proc/interrupts.
This will show you which interrupts are assigned to what devices.  You
should see a line that refers to the Xircom driver.  It is called xirc2ps_cs
(for my Xircom IIPS card - yours may vary slightly).  There will be an
interrupt number in the left hand column referring to the xircom card.

If there is no mention of a xirc....  in /proc/interrupts that probably
means that there was an interrupt conflict.

Another way to see if there were any driver startup problems is to type in
dmesg.  This will show you the messages that occurred when you started the
system (or anytime that you start services like pcmcia-cs.

I have had a lot better luck using pcmcia-cs than kernel-pcmcia-cs.  You
might want to try that.
It's available from pcmcia-cs.sourceforge.com

 <[email]> wrote in message
news:97mqf4$[email]...
7.2
unix/linux
it
version


author: Tom Walsh

subject: Re: beep(good), then (boop) bad

text:
[email] wrote:

Sounds like the system accepted the card with no problems, now run
'netconfig' to configure your network.  Then run 'ifconfig' to see your
card settings (network-wise), then run 'route' to look at the routing
tables...

TomW


author: V

subject: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
Given two 3-D points A and B, I am trying to fit a 3-D Gaussian signal (shape of ellipsoid) between the two points. The center of the ellipsoid is the center of A and B. The major axis is the length of A and B, and the lengths of the minor axes is minimal.

I tried using the ellipsoid function on MATLAB which gives me one with the center and the required axes lengths. How do you orient this ellipsoid such that it is the direction of AB, after centering it at the midpoint of AB?

I understand that the covariance matrix of the Gaussian up on Eigen decomposition give you the direction vectors and the variances.

Do we use rotation matrices?? I kinda tried that and have been quite unsuccessful with that.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


author: ImageAnalyst

subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
You have to give one or both of the minor axes lengths - you can't
just say it's "minimal" or you basically have a line.  Then I suppose
you could just look up the geometrical formula somewhere on the web.


subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
ImageAnalyst <[email]> wrote in message <[email]>...

Thanks you ImageAnalyst.
I understand that from what I've described it can just be a line. The length of the minor axes doesn't matter. However let's consider both the minor axes lengths to be say 10% of the major axis. (I need a very narrow ellipsoid oriented in a specific direction.)


subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
MATLAB's ellipsoid() function has the formula for one aligned with the
x,y,z axes.  You could just figure out the transform to rotate your
coordinate system by the proper 3D angle if A and B don't lie on a
line parallel with any of the coordinate axes.  I don't know what it
is off the top of my head (I'm not Roger after all) but I'm sure you
could find out with just a little research.  The new formula would be
pretty complicated and involve cross terms (xy, xz, yz) and some angle
parameters that were derived from your original endpoint coordinates
(Ax, Ay, Az, and Bx, By, Bz).  Are you sure you want/need to go to all
that trouble?


subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
I don't know.  It's the weekend and I don't want to think that hard or
put that much time into it.  Sorry.  Perhaps if you're really lucky
one of the fine mathematicians here will help you.


author: TideMan

subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
On Jun 11, 9:55 am, "V " <[email]> wrote:

Try searching this newsgroup on "ellipsoid rotation".
There are several threads on this.


subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
ImageAnalyst <[email]> wrote in message <[email]>...

It is the transformation matrix that I am having a hard time figuring out. There is a function on MATLAB FE for orienting the ellipsoid along a direction given the covariance matrix. The orientations are obtained from the eigen vectors of the covariance matrix and the eigen values determine the axes lengths.
However, I am trying to do the reverse. Find the orientation matrix along a 3D vector joining the two points (if I can put it that way)

I tried using the rotation matrices obtaining the angles parameters from the two points, but I didn't have any luck doing them. Either I am messing up with the angles or the rotation matrix.

Thank you for your help.


subject: Re: 3D Gaussian/Ellipsoid

text:
ImageAnalyst <[email]> wrote in message <[email]>...

:-) Thanks for your help. I guess I will have to spend the weekend trying to figure this out.

Tideman

I checked over here. I'm encountering the same problem. Any pointers on this will be helpful.


author: Keith Torrence

subject: New for PDA,PALM and Internet Cell Phones

text:
My Paw Portal has added over twenty new linked sites. Also a  new
search engine has been added.
    In the future My Paw will provide something unique to small portals.
CHECK US OUT!

Keith Torrence,
My Paw

http://www.mypaw.com                 Home Page
http://www.mypaw.com/pda.htm    PDAs and Palm
http://www.mypaw.com/index.wml Internet Cell Phones


author: Isaac Grover

subject: Wierd apparent auto-download of Shockwave audio

text:
Hi everyone,

I have recorded some conference calls for my business partners, put them online
in Shockwave audio format using a player available from Shockwave.  And I'm
encountering an annoying problem.

When someone connects to my page at
http://users.myexcel.com/igrover/wednesday-recordings/ using Internet Explorer,
even though the browser says the page is finished downloading, there is heavy
traffic in the background that, according to Ethereal, is the Shockwave audio
being automatically downloaded.  But according to the configuration, I've
disabled the auto-play feature of the Shockwave player.

Why is the Shockwave audio automatically downloading in the background?

Thanks in advance,

Isaac

Are you losing $14,200.00 per year without your knowledge?
http://bigmoneyandfreetime.web1000.com


author: Spartanicus

subject: Re: Wierd apparent auto-download of Shockwave audio

text:
[email] (Isaac Grover) wrote:

That's the second time in a few hours that you posted the same question,
the answer hasn't changed since then, here it is again:

That's what you get if you attempt to embed audio, don't:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/embed.htm


text:
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 07:53:14 +0000, Spartanicus <[email]> wrote:

Thank you for answering it again.  The reason I asked the question in a
different group is because most groups have different readers and while I won't
necessarily say that you are wrong with your response, I believe there might be
more than one right answer to my question.

Isaac

Are you losing $14,200.00 per year without your knowledge?
http://bigmoneyandfreetime.web1000.com


text:
[email] (Isaac Grover) wrote:

Embedded external data gets loaded with the page by systems that have
support for the data type used.

Solution: stop doing that and make it user selectable: link.


author: Mark Parnell

text:
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:04:32 GMT, [email] (Isaac Grover)
declared in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

Crosspost, don't multipost
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost
Why and how to crosspost
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/xpost.html