author: Orval Fairbairn

text:
In article <VkfY6.93118$[email]>, "John"
<[email]> wrote:

Oh, I don't know ..... Chicago's South side is quite an urban wilderness
-- as is East San Jose, or San Farncisco's Mission District.


author: John

subject: Re: Roads Work Best (WAS:  Re: Transit Keeps the Highways Moving)

text:
--
___>^..^<___

"Orval Fairbairn" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]..
.
not

For those who don't know that you're kidding:
http://www.sunset.com/Premium/Travel/2001/04-Apr/ForestPark0401/ForestPark04
01.html
http://www.ohwy.com/or/f/forestpk.htm


author: William Lynch

text:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

Of course, in your National Socialist Florida, you stamped out
the problem of ethnically mixed neighborhoods long ago . . .


author: Robert Cote

text:
"John" <[email]> wrote:

For those that don't know you here's your previous exchange:

My reply:

Boy, oh boy, am I ever embarassed.  What ever made me think the
measley 153,700 acres of the Santa Monica Mountains Recreation Area
inside the Los Angeles Metro area could compare?  The shame.

Oh, BTW, did I mention the Angeles National Forest portion inside the
Los Angeles Metro Area as well?

-----------
Just because John says something doesn't mean it has anything to do
with the truth.


text:
In article <[email]>, William Lynch <[email]>
wrote:

We don't have a race problem here in FL, where we tolerate each other,
unlike wherever Mr. Lynch comes from. FL manages to to a lot more without
a state income tax, too.  Unlike in the People's Republik of Kalifornia, I
have not seen graffiti here, either.

BTW, since when has FL qualified as "National Socialist" ? From my
experiences, Kalifornia is a lot closer to it than Florida.


text:
--
___>^..^<___

"Robert Cote" <[email]> wrote in message
news:oqyY6.2687$[email]...

What was your reply when I pointed out that by your revisionist definition,
Mt Hood National Forest would be a Portland urban park? (and it's got more
wilderness than you have park.

Did you ever provide a reference that showed your park had an official
designation as "Urban Wilderness Park"?  Did you even show that it's
an -urban- park?  Can people take their noon jog to it from downtown - like
they do with Forest Park?  When was the last time people in your park saw
elk, bear or cougar?

Or is this just another of your Alaska/Texas 'my <whatever> is bigger than
your <whatever>'?

And if Robert says it, you can be damned sure it's only peripherally related
to the truth.


text:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

Your implication was that ethnically mixed neighborhoods qualify as
'urban jungles', which is just a tad offensive.  And you should remember,
from some of your previous visits to ba.transportation, that I live in San
Jose, long known as the most racially diverse and integrated large city
in the country.  Also, still the wealthiest.

Every episode of 'Miami Vice' is filled with it.

'National Socialist' would imply an opposite to 'people's republic', it
refers to a specific type of government.  Some research will show its'
origins, back in the 30's.  And Florida fits to a T.


text:
In article <[email]>, William Lynch <[email]>
wrote:

I forgot to mention that the last race problem we had was over the release
of the Dalr Earnhart autopsy photos.

I am quite familiar with San Jose and its "diversity." If you fly
airplanes or engage in other "environmentally incorrect" activities, you
are an oucast.
I am also familiar with the graffiti that constantly appears on the walls
along Capitol Expressway from Capitol to Aborn and the drug problems in
that area.
I also know that San Jose has one of the stupidest mayors of any big city
in the US.

Specially painted by crews imported from San Jose?

Just how do you mean? I have found Florida to have a lot more freedom than
CA -- and -- the people are a lot more pleasant to do business with.   We
don't have all kinds of behavior police like CA. The existence of behavior
police is a symptom of tyranny. CA has it  in spades.

They are really the same thing -- tyrannies by oligarchs who claim toknow
what is best for everybody.

BTW: come down to FL and I will serve you some of my barbecued palmetto
bugs. You should find them delicious!


author: MICHAEL BITZ

subject: DOS 6.0 *sucks*

text:
Has anyone noticed the *very* noticible speed difference when one installs
DoubleSpace?  I ran it on a 486/25 and was not at all impressed.   I use to
run Stacker 3.0, and it was hardly noticable.  This is rediculous.

------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Bitz                   Internet: [email]
Research and Development              [email]
Dakota State University       Bitnet: [email]


author: Eric Danforth Mudama

subject: Re: DOS 6.0 *sucks*

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (MICHAEL BITZ) writes:
|> Has anyone noticed the *very* noticible speed difference when one installs
|> DoubleSpace?  I ran it on a 486/25 and was not at all impressed.   I use to
|> run Stacker 3.0, and it was hardly noticable.  This is rediculous.

Are you silly?  Granted, the box for the DOS 6 upgrade says that it is "the easiest way to double your hard disk", but
that is no reason to change operating systems.  If you had been keeping up, you would have read that Stacker 3.0 is better
for both speed AND size, as far as disk doubling goes.

Is that the only reason you upgraded?  I love DOS 6, because of the branching in the config.sys and autoexec.bat files and
the ability to move directories in dos.  I don't think it is correct of you to condemn dos 6 because of something that is
supposed to happen anyways.  (No matter what anyone says, disk compression utilities WILL slow access)

I am not looking for flames regarding Microsoft, but a lot of their packages are not the best, but they (usually) do get
the job done.  There is no one superior feature in DOS 6, just a bunch of mediocre utilities in the same colorful box.  :-)

||---------------------------||--------------------------------------------||
 \\   Eric Danforth Mudama    \\ "If she floats like a duck she's a WITCH!  \\
  ||   [email] ||  cat flames.txt response.mean > /dev/null  ||
 //---------------------------//--------------------------------------------//


author: Bruce Maynard

subject: Re: DOS 6.0 *sucks*

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (MICHAEL BITZ) writes:

That's strange... I run DOS 6.0 on a 386/20, and I can see almost *no* difference...
you'd think that a slower CPU would mean even *more* noticable differences, then...

Sounds to me like something's drastically wrong on your machine.


author: Michael R. Volow

subject: Re: DOS 6.0 *sucks*

text:
[email] (Eric Danforth Mudama) writes:

Does it make sense to use DOS 6 for its advantages, but to use
Stacker 3.0 as the compression tool rather than DOS 6's compression
capability? Will this work?


subject: Re: DOS 6.0 *sucks*

text:
difference...>you'd think that a slower CPU would mean even *more* noticable
differences, then...>

Nothing is wrong with my machine.  DoubleSpace is just drastically slower on
mine compared to my fast, unstacked 12ms hard drive.

------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Bitz                   Internet: [email]
Research and Development              [email]
Dakota State University       Bitnet: [email]


subject: Compression Under DOS 6.0 (Was: DOS 6.0 *sucks*)

text:
<< Stuff Deleted >>

|> Does it make sense to use DOS 6 for its advantages, but to use
|> Stacker 3.0 as the compression tool rather than DOS 6's compression
|> capability? Will this work?
|> --
|> Michael Volow, Psychiatry, Durham VA Med Center, Durham NC 27712
|> 919 286 0411 Ext 6933               [email]

I know that DOS 6.0 is supposed to be fully compatible with DOS 5.0 - no major
changes were made to the operating system itself.  Therefore, there is no reason
that Stacker 3.0 wouldn't work with DOS 6.0.  In fact, friends of mine are still
using Stacker 2.0 with DOS 6 and they say that it works great.

Personally, I would like to use the product that get the job done best.  For disk
compression, I feel that Stacker is the better product.

As to the original reason for posting, which I think I accidentally flamed more
than responded to (sorry), DoubleSpace should not be THAT much slower than
Stacker on a 486.  The only solution I can offer is that you might not have
enough XMS memory to work with the on-the-fly (de)compression or something like
that.

||---------------------------||--------------------------------------------||
 \\   Eric Danforth Mudama    \\   "babble, gurgle, duh..."                 \\
  ||   [email] ||  cat flames.txt response.mean > /dev/null  ||
 //---------------------------//--------------------------------------------//


subject: Re: Compression Under DOS 6.0 (Was: DOS 6.0 *sucks*)

text:
Why don't you just wait for Stacker 3.1?  It will be out very shortly.
It integrates perfectly into DOS 6.0

------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Bitz                   Internet: [email]
Research and Development              [email]
Dakota State University       Bitnet: [email]


author: nmstevens

subject: a mention

text:
For those of you who are interested, I'm mentioned in this Friday's
Hollywood Reporter -- there's a link to it in this Friday's CSDaily --
that's the Creative Screenwriting Daily, which you can get by -- well,
by doing a search for "CS Daily" and giving them your e-mail address.

I got the Friday CSDaily this Saturday, so if you hurry - maybe you
will too and you'll be able to read the exciting article all about
yours truly without having to run out and buy a copy of the Hollywood
Reporter.

NMS


author: geoff alexander

subject: Re: a mention

text:
[email] (nmstevens) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Well done, Neal!  Fingers crossed for a big success with Superstition.

G


author: Alan Brooks

subject: Re: a mention

text:
"nmstevens" writes:

Congrats, Neal!  Break a clapboard.  Teach those west cost DPs what
discipline really means...

                Alan Brooks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Schmuck with an Underwood

 -- Steven Soderbergh couldn't
    direct traffic.


author: Gene Harris

subject: Re: a mention

text:
nmstevens wrote:

Hey, congratulations, Neal.  Sounds very cool.

Gene


author: Secret Identity

subject: Re: a mention

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

Congratulations!


author: Dena Jo

subject: Re: a mention

text:
On 21 Aug 2004, nmstevens posted thus:

Well, I'm lame and can't find it.  What's it about?


author: RonB

subject: Re: a mention

text:
On Sat 21 Aug 2004 02:57:51p, nmstevens, wrote:

Congratulations and good luck.


author: Buzz Elkins

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Congratulations, Neal.  I've been trying to access it but haven't yet.  Tell
us what it says.  Modesty is just silly.  If I were in the Hollywood
Reporter you all would never hear the end of it.

:)

Suzy

"nmstevens" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Otto Mation (Caroline Freisen

subject: Re: a mention

text:
On 21 Aug 2004 14:57:51 -0700, [email] (nmstevens) wrote:

Or people can simply go heere and read it:

http://tinyurl.com/4kxyv

Or here:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/search/search_results.jsp?text=Neal+Marshall+Stevens&simpleSearchButton=submit&simpleSearch=true&sortByDate=on

Hope the directing works out for ya!  It's been a loooooong haul.

Caroline
With crossed fingers


author: Ken S.

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Neal, I don't post here often, but your posts are always fun to read.
Congratulations and good luck.
-Ken S.


author: Ovum

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Yay Neal!

Lois

------------------------------------------------

You must be the change you want to see in the world.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Very good news, Neal.  Hope things go your way with the directing
spot.

Doug

"Life is like a river.  If you ain't gettin' your
feet wet, you ain't kickin' hard enough."


subject: Re: a mention

text:
Dena Jo <[email]> wrote in message news:<Xns954D1E06AEBFBDenaJo@130.133.1.4>...

Got a gig writing an adaptation of a novel called, "Superstition" for
Radar -- article mentions the possibility of directing -- but in fact,
this is a very distant and iffy possibility at best. For now, it's
strictly a writing assignment. Article also mentions an earlier
version of the script about "college students accidentally conjuring a
real ghost" or something like that - this is, in fact, not what the
original book was about -- nor will it be what my screenplay will be
about.

The article also (you'd almost think, by my description, that this was
a long article -- it was actually just a paragraph), that I recently
changed agents. This is true -- one of the things that happened when I
went out to L.A. Previously represented by Valarie Phillips at
Paradigm -- now repped by Jon Huddle at ICM.

Nothing bad to say about Valarie, but she was moving up in the company
(plus there's all sorts of changes in the works at Paradigm as they're
merging with Writers and Artists) -- and as her duties became broader
I started to get the distinct feeling that there was much less time
available to her to devote to yours truly. So it was time to move.

So it goes.

In the meantime -- just to make my life easier -- I'm currently typing
this on my wife's computer -- because my hard drive just simply
decided to die. Completely and totally and absolutely die. Dead.
Deceased. It has ceased to be. It is an ex-hard drive.

Last night -- working. This morning -- completely fucking irreparably
dead without so much as a fucking peep of warning.

So -- I mean, all of my critical work-type files are backed up, but
once again, my mail files are gone and while I'm still under warranty
and somebody will come and give me a new hard drive, all they'll do is
re-install XP -- after that, I have to re-install everything else and
getting back on line and putting in all the drivers and getting my
printer working and basically spend a whole aggravating fucking day
getting it all back to something approximating what it was -- and it
just totally fucking sucks.

And yeah, I know you should back everything up -- but unless you've
really backed everything up on something that's essentially an
identical C: drive, where you can just pull out the one that crapped
out and plug in the back-up --and you're back exactly where you were
before, it's still a first class ticket to aggravation city.

NMS


author: Dave Ebert

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Dena Jo <[email]> wrote in news:Xns954D1E06AEBFBDenaJo@130.133.1.4:

Deno - copy the link Caroline posted then past it into the address space on
your browser.

nmstevens - most inspiring news!

DAVe


author: Jupiter

subject: Re: a mention

text:
On 22 Aug 2004 01:41:47 GMT, RonB <[email]> wrote:

We have never met but i'm really happy for you, good luck.

Share the love,
Jupiter.


author: MC

subject: Re: a mention

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Buzz Elkins" <[email]> wrote:

I was in George Christy's column once, but it wasn't anything like as
exciting as Neal's mention.


subject: Re: a mention

text:
[email] wrote in news:[email]:

I think what nms is saying is that the mention was nice - but in some
ways the reporter got a bit of a lean on. Reporters sometimes pick up a
small comment and carry it forward you know.

Whatever, with the track record you are building you will be directing
for sure in the days ahead.

Horror stories sure seem to score big on the starmeter over at IMDb.

DAVe


subject: Re: a mention

text:
On Sun 22 Aug 2004 05:03:05p, nmstevens, wrote:

Peep? Wait a minute, was this a parrot or a hard drive?

I don't know if it's worth the expense, but there are people who can
extract the information off a dead hard drive and recreate it on a new
drive -- provided that something mechanical hasn't physically damaged
the surface of the disks.

Since hard drives are so cheap now, you might want to look at getting a
second one and using a program like Symnantec's Ghost -- which makes a
duplicate drive. Might even want to think of putting it in removable
caddy so you can put it in a safe place when gone.

Info about Ghost at:
http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/features.html

I never back up anything. But I might consider it now.

(But, then again, most everything I write is posted on MWS -- so I
guess I *do* have backups.)


subject: Re: a mention

text:
[email] (nmstevens) wrote in

Your data and drive (if it still spins, hums) can largely be recovered
without having to send it out. Clunk over to www.grc.com and take a look
at his software. The guy is a genius and his stuff works.

Want a really nice set it and forget it software that will stop this from
happening again? Search up a program called WebSync. You tell it what you
want covered and it will automatically run scheduled tasks to syncronize
your files across local drives or over to a networked drive on another
computer. When it sees an updated new file in your monitored FOLDER, it
compares it to what is saved on the other drive or machine and makes them
equal. Has to be a pretty sad day when both your drives or both your
computers die at the same time.

Love your solutions and you won't hate your crashes so much.

Damnest thing I think about being a writer is that you also have to
become such a guru on your computer. The more you can learn and simplify
the use of the computer the less frustration such as this you describe.

DAVe


subject: Re: a mention

text:
On 22 Aug 2004 17:03:05 -0700, [email] (nmstevens) wrote:

Yuck!  Yuck!  And double yuck!  Been there, done that and the tee
shirt is all tattered.

As RonB says, and as I'm sure you're well aware, you *can* pay someone
big bucks to reclaim your dead hard drive...  But unless things have
radically changed since the last time I did that, they just save your
files, and you can't reinstall/restore your hard drive to the way it
was before the crash without a major do-it-yourself headache...

Well, fortunately yours truly does spend a little time reading
computer catalogs.  It's the only way to keep up with what's out
there.  Today's catalog brought a goody I don't remember running
across before.  Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention?  Anyway, now
Maxtor and Seagate both make magic, one-touch "Push Button Backup"
external hard drives that you simply need to remember to push the
button every once in a while, and when your internal hard drive takes
the down elevator forever, you restore everything to the new hard
drive from the external and don't have to go nuts reinstalling all the
software and stuff like that...  They come in sizes up to 300
gigabytes for $300 or less.  And they're a hell of a lot faster than
tape! Next to self-packing and unpacking moving boxes, these things
sound like a great idea!

I'm sure you've thought of or do this too, but the other thing I *try*
to do is do all of my creative writing projects on CDs...  I lost my
fondness for magnetic media many years ago.  Now, if I could just
remember to label the damn disks in analog so I can read it without
putting it in the computer to read the digital label, what a great
thing that would be!

One more thought...  Maybe you could network your computer with your
wife's computer and...  Never mind.  She'd only end up wanting to kill
me...!   '-)

Good luck with the resurection!

Caroline


author: Ron

subject: Re: a mention

text:
In article <Xns954EAED8F750CDenaJo@130.133.1.4>,
 Dena Jo <[email]> wrote:

Ditto. Very cool.

Do you consider the directing side of it iffy because they you're just
entering the development process, or why?


author: Bert Havird

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Jeri Jo Thomas <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

NMS,

I don't usually post here, but congrats on your future endeavor.

As far as your hard drive problem -- and assuming you have a CD burner
attached -- google KNOPPIX (a Linux-based program) -- burn Knoppix (it
usually comes in the for of a .ISO file) to a CD

Boot your CPU with the Knoppix CD -- and you will be brought to a screen,
enabling you to pull any info from your hard drive. From there, you can
burn any file to CD.

Best of luck,

BK


author: Clay Heery

subject: Re: a mention

text:
Please let me add my congratulations to the on-going chorus, Neal.

The only reason i didn't post my congrats earlier is because I was trying to
think of something witty/pithy to say.

--C.

"And failed miserably."


author: HollyLewis

subject: First Years pump?

text:
Three currently pregnant friends have (independently) registered on Amazon for
a First Years breast pump.  On the face of it, the thing seems to be comparable
to Medela and Ameda pumps, only cheaper.  Gets generally good reviews on
Amazon.  It's probably not as bad as Evenflo, right?  But I'm still suspicious,
and wondering just how strongly, if at all, I should try to steer these women
to the tried-and-true (but admittedly more expensive) brands.

Anyone have any experience with these?

Holly
Mom to Camden, 3 yrs
and Laurel, 6 weeks


author: Hillary Israeli

subject: Re: First Years pump?

text:
In <[email]>,
HollyLewis <[email]> wrote:

*Three currently pregnant friends have (independently) registered on Amazon for
*a First Years breast pump.  On the face of it, the thing seems to be comparable
*to Medela and Ameda pumps, only cheaper.  Gets generally good reviews on
*Amazon.  It's probably not as bad as Evenflo, right?  But I'm still suspicious,
*and wondering just how strongly, if at all, I should try to steer these women
*to the tried-and-true (but admittedly more expensive) brands.
*
*Anyone have any experience with these?

is this the one?:
http://www.epinions.com/kifm-B-BEquip-NF-Breast_Pumps-Electric_Battery_Breast_
Pump_Kit/display_~reviews

http://tinyurl.com/3z7w4


author: Lara

subject: Re: First Years pump?

text:
HollyLewis <[email]> wrote:

The electric FY pump gets bad reviews here, and even worse elsewhere,
including reports of nipple entrapment and injuries. I don't see why
anyone would register for a rotten electric pump when an Isis is so
cheap. If they're planning to go back to work early, they will most
likely need a Purely Yours or Pump In Style, at minimum.

Lara


author: Lucy

subject: Re: First Years pump?

text:
"HollyLewis" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
for

It's awful. I used it for a little while at first before I started using a
Medela PIS. I got mastitis from a clogged duct as a result of it.

I would never recommend this pump.

Lucy


subject: Re: First Years pump?

text:
I suppose so.  Interesting diversity of reviews.  :-)  I especially love the
fact that most of the people giving it positive reviews are comparing it to the
Evenflo!

Anyway, one of my friends gave me a "thanks for your concern" response when I
suggested she choose a different pump (but she did say she might get a Purely
Yours -- which isn't available thru Amazon -- instead), and another immediately
deleted it from her registry and listed a PIS.  (I haven't had a chance to talk
to the third.)

Holly
Mom to Camden, 3 yrs
and Laurel, 7 weeks


author: Peter L

subject: Re: Margin Interest. Tax deductible?

text:
Good post.  I am reacting to people who just say yes or no.  Not very
helpful at all to the original poster.

mjgroganinvestments wrote:


subject: Shoe leather badly creasing

text:
I bought a pair of shoes (ankle boots actually) from Clarks
just before going on holiday for two weeks with them.  Whilst I was
away the right shoes developed a marked amount of creasing across the
front of the shoe where it must bend whilst walking.  The left shoe
has only slight creased.  The creasing on the right shoe is far
greater than any other leather shoes I've had, and extended to several
other areas that aren't creased on the left shoe.  As I was on holiday
I had to keep wearing the shoes.  When I got back home I tried to
get Clarks to replace the shoes, but the assistants insisted that the
leather didn't appear faulty nor the shoe, and they had to put it down
to the way my feet fitted in the shoe which wasn't their fault so they
couldn't replace the shoes (and I'd worn them outside too).  As far as
I can tell my feet are the same size and shape, so I guess it must be
something wrong with the leather, but I'm no an expert and the
assistants wouldn't change their minds.  All they suggested was that I
spend more money on things called shoes trees which pack out the shoes
when you're not wearing them.  I left resolving to write to Clarks
directly to complain, but I was wondering if this has happened to
anyone else with leather shoes.  Is it common for shoes to develop
completely different creasing patterns?  The right shoe also feels
different now when walking as the increased creasing causes it to fold
deeper onto my foot, so I could use this as an excuse to go back to
them but it's not uncomfortable, just annoying.

Many thanks in advance for your help.


author: Jim

subject: Re: Shoe leather badly creasing

text:
On 18 Nov 2004 06:18:28 -0800, [email] (Kooky45) wrote:

Definitely always use shoe trees on good leather...it will cut way
down on creases.  Even if they look the same, your feet are slightly
different sized and most people walk slightly differently on one foot
than the other.

That being said, you may still have a bad shoe there and it seems to
me that the store needs to do a bit more to accomodate you since
usually shoes should crease more or less the same.

It might help to know something of the overall quality of the
item...are these $29 dollar leather shoes or $300?  For $29, if they
don't crumble to dust in three weeks I'd be grateful...grin..if $300,
then the shoe store jolly well needs to treat you with more respect.

Jim P.


author: Danny Low

subject: Re: Shoe leather badly creasing

text:
On 18 Nov 2004 06:18:28 -0800, [email] (Kooky45) wrote:

Yes. One reason is your feet are not exactly symmetrical. In your case
it may also be due to a quality control issue. The leather in the
right shoe may not be exactly up to standard. Or it could be simply a
normal variation in the leather combined with a difference in your
right foot. As a natural material, leather has variations that are
normal and within specifications.

Offhand I would say you do not have a good case for a defective shoe
and can only appeal to the company's duty to customer satisfaction. I
have found that a *NICE* letter to the CEO asking for an exchange will
work if anything will work.

Danny

Don't question authority. What makes you think they
know anything? (Remove the first dot for a valid e-mail
address)


author: Jack

subject: Re: Shoe leather badly creasing

text:
First thing you should do when trying on a pair of new shoes
is to crouch down on your knees all the way, stay there for a
minute or so, then stand up and check the shoes, and see if
they've creased.  You'll be amazed -- many shoes, even $300
shoes are poorly designed and have a tendency to crease.

"Jim" <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...


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author: Richard

subject: Arms go numb

text:
Its normal for your arm to go numb if you cut the circulation off. You know
how your arms go numb at night if you lay on them?

Well, after I do an intense upper workout then my arms go numb much more
easily at night, just by bending my arms in the smallest way, the damn
things go numb.

This wears off a couple days later (by the time I do the next workout on the
arms). Anybody get this? My cardiologist said it doesn't have anything to do
with my heart.

What's going on? Its annoying. I'm afraid this doesn't sound good. And damn
it, my new year's resolution was to get bigger arms.

Richard


author: Omelet

subject: Re: Arms go numb

text:
In article <D8Vlh.37745$[email]>,
 "Richard" <[email]> wrote:

Try some mineral supplements, particularly Magnesium.

How much alcohol do you imbibe?


subject: Re: Arms go numb

text:
"Omelet" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
know
the
to do
damn

OK - will try it

Only drink on new years

btw, I'm getting T shots and been doing a lot more upper work lately. My
arms go numb when I'm laying on my back, even with my arms just slightly
bent. The numbness is everywhere, triceps, biceps, forearm.. anywhere I
exercised intensly that day.

Thanks
Richard

Nicholson


subject: Re: Arms go numb

text:
In article <MeVlh.37747$[email]>,
 "Richard" <[email]> wrote:

In that case, I modify the suggestion.
Balanced Cal/Mag/Phos supplement.

I use "Now" brand. Inexpensive and it works.

I get numbness in my hands and arms when my Mag levels get low along
with a slightly elevated heart rate. I have a documented problem tho'
with low Mag levels.

Those are just the symptoms that tell me I need to take more. I keep it
on hand.......

Alcohol consumption can make it worse for some people.

Doc says it's a renal defect.

Might not hurt to get some blood testing done.


author: Michael R Darrett

subject: last-minute Roth IRA contributions for 2001

text:
Hi guys,

I was only able to contribute $400 to my Roth IRA last year (getting
married totally maxes out one's bank account).  I noticed that it's
not too late to contribute for 2001 (www.fool.com).

Here's my question... I'm expecting a refund of about $X from the IRS
(where X is a real number between 0 and 2,600). If I e-file now, and if I
get my refund before April, can I use that $X to stuff into my Roth IRA
for the year of 2001?  Or only for 2002?

It's a long shot...

Mike Darrett
http://www.geocities.com/mrdarrett


author: Phil Marti

subject: Re: last-minute Roth IRA contributions for 2001

text:
In article <[email]>,
Michael R Darrett <[email]> writes:

Yes.  Since you already contributed $400 for 2001, you can contribute another
$1600 any time through 4/15/2002.  (The $3000 limit goes into effect for 2002
contributions.)  The source of the funds is irrelevant, and if you didn't
already know, you don't report Roth IRA contributions on your return.

Phil Marti
Topeka, KS


text:
On 1 Mar 2002, Phil Marti wrote:

Ok, great!  Thank you very much!!!

Mike Darrett
http://www.geocities.com/mrdarrett


subject: concerning an *ambush* which involved a couple home schoolers

text:
Well, the boys had quite an experience last night.  Everything was going quite
wonderfully.  And then, one of *those* conversations sprang up, in which home
schoolers so often find themselves "defending their turf."  And the next thing
I knew, a full-out sandbagging was underway, unfolding right before my eyes ...
a premeditated ambush.  It was one of those things you just don't expect your
children to be involved in...

The boys had received an absolutely stunning, unexpected invitation to perform
at an event at which a large number of musicians and music patrons were to be
gathered.  It was the sort of event which youngsters don't ordinarily even get
invited to *attend*.  The boys were given completely free reign to present
whatever program they liked.  So they shared their very favorite things with
the audience for the better part of an hour ... they played cello and piano
solos, cello/piano duets, and even a bit of the "four-hands ragtime" and the
"funky" cello which they love so much.  The audience was incredibly receptive
to them, and even gave them two rather loud standing ovations, one mid-program,
and the other when they finished their final piece.  Astonishingly, the moment
they finished, an excellent, well-known conductor (who was in attendance
because he has been conducting an orchestra at the MusicFest to which the
evening's dinner was attached) sprinted from the audience, and took over the
program.  (He was not the evening's emcee, or any such.)  He said that in his
thirty-something years of traveling all over everywhere, he'd never seen a
youngster who was equally adept and masterful with *two* instruments ... let
alone *two* youngsters.  And he proceeded to urge the assembled patrons, in
particular, to take it upon themselves to make sure that the boys' musical
talent was fully *nurtured* over the next years (he got quite specific about
how much it *costs* to fully bring forth the talent of able young musicians)
... as you can imagine, our family was shocked out of our minds by this
development...  (We've wondered, for example, how it might be possible for us
to purchase next-level cellos for each of the boys ... lessons alone are, of
course, costly ... etc. ... we've known that our Lord's grace would be
*handling* such matters, as it's done up to *this* point ... but we weren't
even *thinking* about that while we made the long drive to the location of
their performance.)

Next was a chef-prepared dinner for the guests.  I've got to say, that was some
of the finest food I've ever even *read* about ... :-)  And, delightfully, our
family was seated at the same table as the conductor.  He proceeded to ask the
boys to keep their schedules free during a certain time period, as he would
like to feature them in a concert (in which they would solo with his
orchestra).  And he discussed a specific suggestion he intended to make at the
upcoming patrons' meeting, to follow up on the financial support issue.  As you
can imagine, our heads were pretty much spinning by this point.  (It turned out
that part of the reason he got in their corner like that was because he'd spent
a little time observing them, and was appreciating the mature and gracious
manner in which they were interacting with the people in attendance, especially
the older folks.  We had a very pleasant conversation, of course, about the
edifying nature of the home schooling process. <g>)

And then it happened.  One of the patrons, a *very* dignified, rather rugged,
almost stern (in a jovial sort of way, generally speaking) elderly fellow,
walked up to the boys, and said, "I'd like to hear a little about this home
schooling business."  It was plain that he had some ... uhm ... "serious
questions" about home schooling, and that he considered it a newfangled
"fringe" thing, in which not too many people would even *consider* involving
their children.  I was watching this from a slight distance, and wondered how
the boys would weather the attack.  I could see them bracing, through their
smiles, for the usual "socialization" question.  But no, the gentleman
commented, "I can see what it's done for your music.  And I can *also* see what
it's done for your *behavior*" ... and then he growled a series of things,
mostly inaudible to me, about "kids today."  (He's clearly had a *gut-full* of
some of the out-of-control, attitude-y behaviors which seem so prevalent
"now-a-days"...)  His concern, it turned out, was whether or not a child could
get a really solid *academic* background in a home schooled setting.  Now, as
I'm sure many of you have experienced, the "home schooled academics" topic
often next sails into a discussion of how non-math/science oriented *parents*
can *possibly* hope to... (etc.)  Johnny, anticipating this, began to tell the
man about the college-level math he's been working on.  The elder cut him
short, and quickly made plain that, from his perspective, everything about math
and science studies could be floated off on a barge into the open sea, and have
flaming arrows shot into it.  *His* concern was that children ought to know a
bit about *history*!!  He next demanded to know what the boys have been
studying about history.  Well, Johnny said, one of his most favorite studies
has involved Lewis and Clark.  The fellow's eyebrows shot straight up in the
air.  "No *kidding?!?!  Hey, there's a *terrific* book you boys should read
about Lewis and Clark ... it's called *Undaunted Courage*!!"

Well, right that moment, I saw a *look* on *each* of the boys faces.  It was
*sublte*, but unmistakable.  Chris *immediately* piped up, and said, "Yes,
that's a *wonderful* book ... we both read it, and Johnny liked it so well that
he went off and read the full printed *trail journals*!"  "OOOHHHHHH," replied
their (now former ... heh) assailant.  And he proceeded to tell the boys that
he and his wife have been planning to go to St. Louis, and then drive as close
as possible along the route.  I mean ... this fellow is *really* into Lewis and
Clark.  So Johnny, scenting the blood in the water ... :-) ... proceeded to
say, "Oh, YES!!  That'll be a *wonderful* experience for you ... wow, it would
be cool if Chris and I could go *with* you!  We've been really interested in
such things ever since one of the children of a great friend of ours went on a
major "trail journey," actually *hiking* it with his *uncle* ... as part of
<huge grin> his home schooling."  (He proceeded to describe everything he could
recall about the voyage of the Bobs.  MaGGroup, I *really* wish y'all could
have been there to see this!!)  And then, on instinct, Johnny asked what the
gentleman thought of the incredible *hunting* aspects of the voyage of Lewis
and Clark.  Sure enough (as one might have guessed ... and Johnny *had* guessed
... from the weathered, "outdoors-y" appearance of this man), this fellow loves
to hunt.  In fact, the gentleman said, the lead *hunter* who went with Lewis
and Clark was his favorite "character" in *Undaunted Courage*!  (LOL!!)  "Yes,
Johnny said ... George Drouillard!  I thought it was *funny* that Lewis
pronounced his name "Drewyer!"  Well, that cinched it ... this man was
*impressed* that Johnny remembered George Drouillard's *name*!!  He said, "Of
course, I suppose it's easier for a musician to *remember* things like that,
given how much of a work-out your *memory* gets!"  "Well, Johnny said, I
suppose that's probably true, generally speaking ... music *does* help our
memories.  But in *this* instance, there's a whole *other* reason I know that
name so well."  "Oh, what's *that*?"  "Well, one of George's *descendants* is
someone our family considers to be a dear friend!!"  The fellow's eyes just
plain bugged out at *that* one.  "No *kidding* ... WOW ... how do you happen to
know his descendant?"  "Well," Johnny said, "his name is *Ray* Drouillard ...
and we know him because he and his wife *home school* their children!!"

Now ... if anyone had *asked* me, a couple days ago, I would have said, "*My*
children??  Why **NO**, they're *sweet* kids ... they'd *never* set out to
*ambush* anyone!!"  But I watched it with my own eyes.  The boys saw the
opportunity, and led this poor skeptical-of-home-schooling fellow right down
the path, step by step.  By the time they were finished, the gentleman's
preconceived notions had already turned to dust on the ground.  It was a
flat-out slaughter, and there wasn't the faintest trace of mercy or compassion
showing on *either* of the boys faces as the conversation unfolded, nor of
repentance when the deed was done.  (Chris didn't say much during the process,
but was clearly as culpable as Johnny.)  On the other hand, maybe it was a
kindness, of sorts.  By the end of the discussion, after all, this fellow ...
who has had a *deep* love of *music* for his whole life ... had had his eyes
opened ... so it will now be possible for him to appreciate the wonderful music
which *home schooling* can be, too!!!

And so ... one more reason for our family to offer a *huge* thank-you to the
denizens of meh-sc ... not only those of y'all, of course, who have been the
most directly involved in the "history" sorts of things, recounted above ...
but also all of you who have been encouraging the boys, all this time, in their
*music*!!  (Really, really do wish y'all coulda *been* there!!)

With our family's love to you and yours,

John


author: MaG Douglas

subject: Re: concerning an *ambush* which involved a couple home schoolers

text:
Thank you for sharing that John. It is always a treat to hear how our
actions can affect someone else. I know it isn't always the case, but I try
to behave in a way that will encourage people either in their walk with the
Lord or in their walk toward the Lord. And I encourage my family to do the
same. It's nice to see some fruit from our choices.

MaG

"JRice43497" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
quite
home
thing
eyes ...
your
perform
be
get
with
piano
the
receptive
mid-program,
moment
the
his
let
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about
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of
weren't
some
our
the
would
the
As you
turned out
spent
especially
the
rugged,
home
involving
how
their
what
*gut-full* of
could
as
*parents*
the
math
have
know a
studies
the
read
was
that
replied
that
close
Lewis and
to
would
in
on a
of
could
could
the
Lewis
guessed
loves
Lewis
"Yes,
"Of
that,
that
is
just
happen to
...
"*My*
down
compassion
process,
...
eyes
music
the
the
...
their


author: Loriendil

text:
I loved it -- absolutely loved it!
Thanks for sharing that John!  :-)


author: Dinky

text:
Oww. Too long for small and unimportant creature to read. Musta been good,
though, cuz Dinky gotsa feelin' 'bout good story with good kiz who wollopped
de big old spektic. Dinky say, "good widdle history mongers!"


author: Kanga

text:
"JRice43497" <[email]> wrote in message
news:20020224045051.18513.00000246@mb-[snipped absolutely delightfully
story]

the
the
...
their

Reading your post has to be the next best thing.  High fives to both boys,
and congrats on their culpability.=)

Our most recent hsing ambush involved one of the older couples at our
church.  They are a really lovely couple, lots of fun, big teasers, but,
it's been obvious, homeschooling is something they kind of think is just
weird.
We have a sign up rotation for cleaning the building where our church meets.
This older couple signed up for their turn.  This couple are not only older,
but he has a back condition that looks pretty uncomfortable.  He used to be
almost 6 feet tall.  He's now 5'6- and his head is over to one side of his
hunched over body.  Another family offered to help them and were accepted.

However, when the Saturday rolled around, several things intervened, and the
adults in that family and my family were unable to go.  So we sent our
combined group of older children- all homeschooled.
Later we learned that initially, when a group of children ages 18, 17, 15,
13, 12, 11 and 10 showed up to 'help' clean, this sweet older couple
expected to end up doing more babysitting than anything else.
Instead, what would have ordinarily been a four to five hour job took 90
minutes- and one of my girls tells me it took that long because the older
couple insisted on at least cleaning the toilets and mopping.  They wouldn't
let any of the children do these things.
Then they took all the kids out for lunch.  The story we hear is that they
had so much fun that tables near them were laughing (I've never seen a table
laugh, so it must have been good).
The following Sunday at church Mrs. R. could not stop bragging on our
children to anybody who would listen.  She raved (we heard back from several
people)- about what good workers the kids were, how diligent they are, how
witty they are, how much fun they were to be around, and, she kept saying,
"They even _like_ each other!"
She came to me to tell me how different my children were than she'd
expected.  Tigger, in particular, impressed her.  Tigger is our stealth
missile of wit.  She seems quiet, shy, a little reserved- and pow, she zings
out wisecracks faster than you can respond.  People find themselves waking
up weeks later, just then 'getting it.'

Mrs. R. at one point lined everybody up to go through their names.  She got
to Tigger and said, "you're Rachel."  Tigger deadpanned smoothly, "Okay."
And a minute later added, "but my name is 'Tigger.'  I'll answer to Rachel
if you like."

The R. family are now firmly in the hsing camp- mainly impressed because of
the closeness they observed between siblings.

Then there was our piano teacher's husband (also an older couple from
church).  He asked,> snicker<, my children if they liked to read, clearly
not expecting much.
The children regaled him with their latest favorites, the 18 y.o. ended up
showing him her study guide to Beowulf, the 11 y.o. expressed shock he
hadn't read anything by Tolkien yet (he said his grown son had been telling
him he needed to read it, and she said, yes, he certainly should), the 12
y.o. showed him Plutarch's Lives, which she brought along to the piano
lesson to read while she waited for her sisters- I think he's still walking
around with a dazed expression.

Kanga


author: Denise

text:
(e-mailed and posted)

JRice43497 wrote:

So do I, but your write-up was *wonderful!* Especially as I was
anticipating the next segment while Scott was reading . . . "History . .
." "Oh, they should mention that verbatim stuff they read about Lewis &
Clark . . . " then that's what he read . . .  :D

Am e-mailing your lovely tome to my friend Wendy. She might not
understand in depth all the 'insider-stories' about the Bobs and Ray,
but she'll appreciate the update about the boys' music and their defense
of homeschooling.

My hearty congratulations to Chris and Johnny. :)

A personal note:
A new friend found out about my classical piano background. This new
friend is planning a fancy evening of entertainment and dessert for
couples at our church. (Was supposed to be a Valentine's Day thing, but
everything was booked up due to the Olympics.). She's asked me to play
one number. Recital-style, not background music. I haven't performed in
17 years!!!!!

While it's still not official whether or not Scott and I are even
*going,*
I can't make a last-minute decision regarding the performance if I've
not prepared. Have tried to do a little, but with my family dynamics and
demands it's very difficult. So if ya'll would like to pray with
understanding . . .  I'm preparing Shubert's Impromptu Op. 90 No. 3 in G
flat major. (Gorgeous piece; if the boys haven't played it yet, they
really should take a good look at it.) My whole family has been sick for
a week, show little signs of recovery, and the special evening is
scheduled for March 9. I'm swamped.

Yours in Christ,
Denise
Mama to 6 in Utah

Interactive U.S. geography activities:
http://members.singlepoint.net/sbryce/us_geo

Printable math worksheets:
http://members.singlepoint.net/sbryce/mathwork


author: Ray

text:
"JRice43497" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

<snipped a great story>

Love it!  Chalk one up for the good guys!

You truly must be proud of your boys.  It took great maturity to pull off
such a devastating attack without a trace of disrespect.  People are much
more likely to get your message if you manage to keep from getting their
hackles up.  "A soft word turneth away wrath" and all that stuff :-)

By the way, if you see that gentleman again, you can always point him to the
website of my brothers' Christian band http://www.heavensown.com.  The
Drouillards are somewhat musical, too (though not nearly as accomplished as
your crew).

Ray Drouillard


author: Stainless Steel Streetrat

text:
"Kanga" <[email]> wrote in message news:<4N8e8.13078$[email]>...

Oh, you've really missed it if you've never seen a table laugh <wg>


subject: PS - thanks for reminder

text:
PS Thanks for your reminder about _Undaunted Courage_. Have now reserved
it from the library for my eldest to read. There are 41 copies in our
county system, only 4 checked out at the moment. Sounds like unused
resources to me!

--D


author: MC

subject: A Box of Hitchcock

text:
Garage sale today: A boxed set of VHS tapes -- still in their
shrink-wrap. A collection of the best of Hitchcock's early British ones:

Sabotage
The Man Who Knew Too Much
The Thirty-Nine Steps
The Lady Vanishes
Young and Innocent
Rich and Strange
Murder
Secret Agent
Number 17
Juno and the Paycock

...for $10!


author: Janek Czekaj

subject: Re: A Box of Hitchcock

text:
Hope they're in B&W and have not been colourised.

"MC" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Richard Milton

subject: Re: A Box of Hitchcock

text:
MC wrote

You lucky bastid.  Is "The man who knew too much"
the original 1934 version?  I love both versions but
I think I prefer Do-Do singing Que Sera, Sera even
though the balance of opinion is that the earlier one
is better.  Hitch was quoted as saying that the first
was the work of a talented amateur whereas the second
was made by a professional.

Richard


author: Adam Pratt

subject: FS  24 MB RAM SIMMS

text:
FS 24 MEGS OF RAM. 72 PIN (60ns) SIMMS/ $80

These are 2 8 MB and 2 4 MB Chips.

I WILL SPLIT SHIPPING/COD

EMAIL IF INTERESTED

THANKS
KYLE Z.

[email]


subject: scientific fraud

text:
Since we somehow got on the subject of the value of various scientific
publications, I thought that this paper would be of interest to many of you.
What it does is depict the many shades of gray between exemplary research and
outright scientific fraud-- how they are treated, giving examples, etc.

One shade of gray, as an example, would be throwing out data that is tainted by
*something.*  Sometimes appropriate, if the procedure was not followed
correctly, unfortunately scientific bias enters into the decision.

One person's mulligan is another person's fraud.  All in all, really
interesting reading........................

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/pubs/92prom.html

SCIENTIFIC FRAUD AND THE POWER STRUCTURE OF SCIENCE
Brian Martin
Published in Prometheus, Vol. 10, No. 1, June 1992, pp. 83-98.

"In summary, what I have called 'potentially dubious practices' are widespread
in science, and indeed it is virtually impossible to survive as a scientist
without participating in some of them. Because many of them are considered
standard practice or tolerated, they seldom become a focus for concern. My
argument is that the most important reason why a practice is tolerated or
castigated is its relation to the dominant groups affecting science:
government, industry and scientific elites. Raising the issues of
misrepresentation of achievement, bias in appointments and biased viewpoints
linked to powerful groups threatens one or more of these groups in a systematic
way. Hence there is no severe stigma attached to these practices.

Fiddling with scientific data in a major way, on the other hand, is of no
particular benefit to any of these groups. It is still risky for an institution
to expose this behaviour, because of bad publicity. Nevertheless, most of the
blame can be put on individual scientists. ..............

Scientists can be quite righteous about honesty in their profession. They
typically claim that fraud is very rare, much less common than in other
occupations. This belief is made possible initially by the definition of
corrupt behaviour, limiting it to particular extreme cases of misrepresentation
such as blatant and detectable altering or manufacturing of data. Such
behaviour is defined as terrible and punishable. It is conveniently defined as
being quite distinct from the wide range of other misrepresentations and biases
that pervade scientific practice.

The focus on a few individual violators serves two important purposes. First,
it divides the scientific community into the guilty and the innocent by heaping
large amounts of contempt on the few singled out as violators. In this way it
binds together the majority of members of the community, reaffirming their
essential virtue. Second, it isolates a few behaviours as corrupt, and
implicitly stamps others as blameless."
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be
overcome."
Samuel Johnson

"If I am wrong I can take it back later, if I am not dead."
 BL


author: Dr. Dickie

subject: Re: scientific fraud

text:
BL 1204 wrote:

The problem here is how the scientific method
works. Nothing is accepted based on a single study
(certainly open to possible fraud). And the
scientific method is that the more studies which
support and duplicate a study, the more merit and
weight that concept is given. SO, you have changed
the game from a single fraud event, to a series of
unrelated people, with different motivations, and
different ethical standards, ALL committing the
same fraud, for it to be accepted---very damn
unlikely.
Can someone fudge the data and make the evening
news with a startling event? Yes, but that is
trivial to science overall. In the end, it is the
BODY of evidence which wins the day.  Look at cold
fusion, a perfect example of science in action.
Now contrast this to something like history. Where
if one (well respected and highly thought of)
individual makes some wrong assertion in a paper,
you can see that same falsehood repeated a million
times and it DOES influence how other events are
interpreted.
Where there have been citations which were wrongly
cited in one paper and then carried through to
over papers, that is somewhat  trivial to science.
  A work stands or falls on its own. Citations are
for background--disturbing,yes; however, this does
not negate good experimental results.
That is my $0.02. I am sure that others have their
  opinion.


author: Wesley Groleau

subject: Re: scientific fraud

text:
Dr. Dickie wrote:

My friend the psychology major used to say

   The literature in psychology is
     10 % legitimate research
     30 % the writer's intuition or speculation
     60 % quoting the above.

I am convinced this happens in many other fields as well.


author: Guy

subject: Re: scientific fraud

text:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:06:47 -0500, Wesley Groleau
<[email]> wrote:

There is a problem.   A lot comes from what
we used to call "professional students"

The use of what appears to be science but would
not qualify for Popular Mechanics is too common.

But you have a brain.  Use it. Peer review is important.

                                    Guy


author: Ted Rosenberg

subject: Re: scientific fraud

text:
There is also a problem in that things are not always obvious

There was a recent case where someone in a study at Hopkins died.

They were basing the study on data from a UMMS study.  In the UMMS
study, the researchers eliminated people from the study who came down
with flue.

It NOW turns out that many of the supposed cases of flue were caused by
the study.  Something that no one recognized at the time.

Who do you leave in, and who do you leave out.  Suppose you keep people
in who had been hit by cars.  If it is unrelated (as it appears to be)
then you have biased the study one way.  If it is in fact related
(perhaps the study methodology effects judgement) then you have biased
the study the OTHER way.

Noi matter how legitimate, data may be improperly effected.

NOW, the higher the number of subjects, and the broader the base, the
less changes you might have to make to make the data correct.

ONE auto death will effect n=1000, but if n=1,000,000 then you can
totaly ignore random factors - the chances that they will bias the study
are very small.

That is one of the problems of a small sample size.  If you give me n=6,
I can prove that Diabetes is GOOD for you.


author: SALAM JAFAR

subject: PLEASE YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

text:
This letter may come to you as a surprise due to the fact that we have not
yet met.  I have to say that I have no intentions of causing you any pains
so i decided to contact you through this medium .As you  read this, I don't
want you to feel sorry for me, because, I believe everyone  will die
someday.

My name is  SALAM JAFAR, a merchant in Dubai, in the U.A.E. I  have been
diagnosed with prostate and  esophageal Cancer that was discovered  very
late  due to my laxity in caring for my health. It has  defiled  all form of
medicine and right now, I have only about a few months to live  according to
medical  experts.I have not particularly lived my life so well, as I never
really  cared for  anyone not even myself but my business. Though I am very
rich, I was never  generous, I was always hostile to people and only focus
on my  business as that  was the only thing I cared for. But now I regret
all this as I now know  that  there is more to life than just wanting to
have or make all the money in the world. I believe when God gives me a
second chance to come to this world I  would live my life a different way
from how I have lived it. Now that I know my  time is near, I have willed
and given most of my properties and assets to my immediate and extended
family members
and as well as a few close friends and Schools in the UAE. I have decided
to give alms to charity organizations, as I want this to be one  of the last
good deeds I do on earth. So far, I have distributed money to some  charity
organizations in the U.A.E, London and Ireland. Now that my health has
deteriorated so badly, I cannot do this my self any more. I once asked
members  of my family to close one of my accounts and donate the money,
which I have  there to charity organization in Bulgaria, they refused and
kept the money to  themselves. Hence, I do not trust them anymore, as they
seem not to be contended with what I have left for them. The last of my
money which is the  huge cash deposit that I have with Financial Firm Abroad
I will want you to help me collect this deposit and dispatched it to
charity organizations and let  them know that it is I SALAM JAFAR  that is
making this generous donation.
I am writing this from my laptop computer in my hospital bed where I wait
for my  time to come. I pray that God  uses you to support and assist me
with good heart

God be with you.
SALAM JAFAR

NB: I will appreciate your utmost confidentiality in this matter until the
task is accomplished as I dont want anything that will Jeopadize my last
wish. and Also I will be contacting with you by email as I dont want anybody
to know cos they are always around me. Do endavour to send your phone as
well as your fax for easy communication.


subject: Re: PLEASE YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

text:
In article <doqm32$f0s$[email]>,
 "SALAM JAFAR" <[email]> wrote:

<SNIP>

Dear Salam Jafar:

My name is Timmy. I am a very sick little boy. My mother is typing this
for me, because I can't. She is crying. (Don't cry, Mommy!) Mommy is
always sad, but she says it's not my fault. I asked her if it was God's
fault, but she didn't answer, and only started crying harder, so I don't
ask her that any more.

The reason she is so sad is that I'm so sick. I was born without a body.
It doesn't hurt, except when I go to sleep. The doctors gave me an
artificial body; a burlap bag filled with leaves. The doctors said that
was the best they could do, on account of us having no money or
insurance. I would like to have a body transplant, but we need more
money. Mommy doesn't work because she said employers don't hire crying
people.

I said, "Don't cry, Mommy," and she hugged my burlap body. Mommy always
gives me hugs, even though she's allergic to burlap, and it chafes her
real bad. I hope you will help me. You can help me if you forward this
e-mail. Dr. Kronkhite from the clinic said if you forward this e-mail
then Bill Gates will team up with AOL and do a survey with NASA. Then
the astronauts will collect prayers from school children all over the
world and take them up to space so that the angels can hear them better.

Then they will go to the Pope, and he will take up a collection in
church and send the money to the doctors. The doctors could help me get
better then. Maybe one day I will be able to play baseball. Or maybe
just use my lungs and heart, when the doctors make them. The doctors
said that every time you forward this letter, the astronauts can take
another prayer to the angels.

Please help me. Mommy is so sad, and I want a body. I don't want my
leaves to rot before I turn 10. If you don't forward this e-mail, that's
OK. Mommy says you're a mean heartless shithead who doesn't care about a
poor little boy with only a head. She says that if you don't stew in the
raw septic tank of your own guilt-ridden stomach, she hopes you die a
long, slow, horrible death so you can burn forever in the tar pits of
Hell.

What kind of goddamned person are you that you can't take THREE FUCKING
MINUTES to forward this to all your friends so that they can feel guilt
and shame for the rest of their days, and then maybe help a poor,
bodiless nine-year-old boy?

Please help me. This really sucks. I try to be happy but it's hard. I
wish I had a puppy. I wish I could hold a puppy. One time I had a puppy
but he peed on my leaves.

Thank You.

Timmy (the boy with just a head and a burlap sack for a body)


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: PLEASE YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

text:
Timmy --

I'm afraid you'll have to shovel your rotten leaves on outta here.
They *really* smell bad.

Nothing personal.  I usually like burlap, too.

All the best,

Doug
Just a virtual guy... in a virtual world


subject: Re: PLEASE YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

text:
In article <dorml3$s3v$[email]>, [email] wrote:

Fuck you, Doug.

Your pal Timmy.


subject: Re: PLEASE YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

text:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:51:21 +0000 (UTC), MC
<[email]> wrote:

If ever I would leaf you...
It wouldn't be in Springtime...

Doug
Just a virtual guy... in a virtual world


author: Doug

subject: Re: Debrideation

text:
So? Isn't there a group somewhere who appreciates raving lunatics?
clue: this isn't it.


author: Me

subject: Re: Palm Beach County, Voter Competency Test

text:
"Maximo Lachman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:8uht3g$c3c$[email]...

Not quite. Bush's name was listed first on the ballot. Then second on
the list was Gore, but Gore's punch hole was third. Buchanan's punch
hole was second. The holes on the actual ballot, not the sample that
is shown in the media are very close together. Also, there's the
indesputable fact that even Buchanan, himself said on TV at least
twice that he feels he probably got votes that were intended for Gore.

Read Florida State's voting statute. Each ballot has a unique serial number.
Each ballot can be crossmatched to the person who cast that ballot. It would
take forever to ask the person who cast each invalidated ballot what they
intended, but they do have that capability and certainly the capability to
ask a sample of those people how they actually intended to vote then simply
compare it to the ballots they cast.

Nonsense. Even Buchanan says he got votes that should be for Gore.
Also, there may well be many ballots that were mistakenly invalidated
by machinary that was unable to sense ballots that were partially punched,
but where the intent is clear.

True, but that is not the question at hand. The issue is that some
ballots may have been incorrectly invalidated and some ballots
may have been invalidated where it is possible to get clarification
from the persons who cast those ballots. The only way we will
know this is to hand count the ballots to see how accurately the
scanning was done.

Baby
Cheney
the

I for one am getting tired of this, but I did take the time to read
Florida's
voting statutes. There is an entire section on how and under what
circumstance
a vote can be contested. Thus far, everything I have heard about what Bush
and some of the electorate is doing is well within Florida law. The only
issue is what the remedy will be, if any, once the circuit court decides
the case.


author: William Brenner

text:
I, too, thought that individual ballots could be traced back to the
voter via the attached serial number.  I have since learned that, at
least in Miami-Dade County, the number stub is removed before the ballot
is inserted into the ballot box.

I voted absentee, and there was no number stub attached to my ballot.
[Yes, I voted for only one presidential candidate.]  The absentee
package consisted of a paper listing of the offices and candidates for
each plus a punch card and a pin device for punching the ballot.

It did take some extra effort to completely remove the chads, which are
the little pieces that are punched out.  Failure to remove them could
cause some of the ballot to be not counted by the machine.  I can easily
imagine that many voters would either not bother or were unaware of this
problem.


author: Maximo Lachman

text:
"Me" ([email]) writes:

I saw the actual ballot as shown at the Dem's press conference, not the
"sample" shown by the media. And if you are Semitic then Buchanan's name was
listed 1st. Even if you read from left to right, then Buchanan was second.
The holes were close together as you say, which means that the typical
Yankee cretin would also have voted for Buchanan rather than Bush. It cuts
both ways. Why are you so pro-Gore? It's a sorry country where respect for
one's elders has diminished to the point where young punks can push
aside their elders who are better qualified.

Read Nelson v. Robinson (1974) where a court in Florida said that a voter
making such allegations must supply proof, and not just an affidavit.

Voter News Service reported that many right wing voters used the write-in
area to vote for their candidate for president, and for Cheney as V.P. as
Cheney is far enought to the right of Bush to be preferable to them. This
did NOT happen for Lieberman, who is viewed as being middle of the road,
and unacceptable to Green Party voters. If you don't believe VNS exit
polls, then just mosey over to the boondocks and ask rednecks who drive
pick-ups with a gun rack inthe back.

There's some hope for you yet. However, if there is vote fraud going on,
then all a recount does is validate the fraudulent practices. How can
anybody be sure that the vote was honest? It is time for the U.S. as the
banana republic that it obviously is, to submit to U.N. supervised elections.

Nelson v. Robinson should be controlling, and the case should be dismissed.
Either side would have a better case alleging outride vote fraud rather
than some stupid ballot irregularity for which there already is case law.

Personally, I believe that any ballot that forces independents to write in
candidates separately, when they want to vote for a president and v.p. of
different parties is unconstitutional, either in spirit or in word. The
12th amendment says:

"they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in
distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President".

Prior to that, under Article II, they casted a "vote by ballot for two
persons",  which soon led to ties, when candidates ran on tickets, as in
1800 between Jefferson and Burr, who were on the same ticket. Now that
electors vote separately, the people should have the same freedom.

That brings up another point. As there were a lot of write-in votes from
right wing hicks for the Constitutional/Libertarian/Reform/Natural Law
candidates for president and then Cheney, these were not tallied by
computer, and thus the exit polls gave a better prediction of the vice
presidential race. Of course as an exit poller, I would say that
wouldn't I?

Gearing up to poll in the Great White North,

mAximo


author: pete

subject: Leave to Remain in the UK

text:
Hi.  I have a query regarding applying for Leave to Remain in the UK.

I am currently on a 4 year w/permit.  The 4 year duration started from the
day I arrived in the UK.  Before I left to come to the UK, my wife applied
for her spouse visa while in our country.  She only arrived in the UK about
a month after I arrived but her 4 year duration started from the day the
visa was issued in our country.  It's now getting closer to the 4 years and
we want to apply for Leave to Remain in the UK.  The problem is she's going
to be a month and a bit short of 4 years.  How do we go about applying?

Thanks.

Pete


author: Stephen Christie

subject: Re: Leave to Remain in the UK

text:
Pete - I think you will have no porblem. You can submit your
application before your 4th anniversary. There seems to be no specific
rule about how early in advance you can submit your application but
the general guiance seems to be one month. If I were you I would
submit it before your wife's permit runs out, even if that is more
than one month before yours runs out. You only need to submit one form
with you as the principal applicant and you can name any family
members (incl spouse and children) on that application. Your wife
won't need to submit a separate application. Having submitted your
application, you and your wife are allowed to remain in the UK beyond
your current permit expiry while you await the decision. Good luck.


author: Spaceman Spiff

subject: Re: Leave to Remain in the UK

text:
[email] (Stephen Christie) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

hi stephen .. any idea how long this process usually takes?

Thanks


author: Millwright Ron

subject: OT   UNION BUSTING

text:
UNION BUSTING

Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About

Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.

Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
this
crazy thing called "health care.

Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com


author: Larry Sheldon

subject: Re: OT   UNION BUSTING

text:
Millwright Ron wrote:

"health care"

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/12/16/money-pit-the-uaws-gold-plated-golf-course/


author: richard

subject: Re: OT   UNION BUSTING

text:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:04:45 -0800 (PST), Millwright Ron
<[email]> wrote:

So this guy is saying that the bail out is an attempt to bust the
unions?
I don't think so. All 3 companies are so bad off they can't afford to
stay in business?
Fine ok. Cut back. That's what all other businesses do.

Think about it. Take Chrysler for example.
They have their hands in so many cookie jars it's hard to keep track
of the jars. Chrysler bought out Jeep. Ok. Jeep was almost dead then.
Then Chrylser and Daimler get in together. Who the hell is Daimler?
Most people never heard of Daimler. Although I happen to know that
Daimler was credited with beginning the automotive industry.

Then Chrysler has Freightliner. Big trucks. What's happened here in
the past two years? Sales down. Way down. Why? Fuel price goes up,
truckers can't afford the fuel. Does Chrysler cut back production?
Hell no they just keep crankin em out.

I never did understand why they need to make 10,000 cars per day
anyway. With 30 different models to choose from that's 300,000 per day
being built. Why?

Who the sam hell ya gonna sell all them cars too?

Now why don't make 1,000 cars per day and pay more attention to
quality. That's how it was done in the good old days when they made
money for their time and effort.

Bailout? No frickin way. Sink, or swim.


subject: Re: OT   UNION BUSTING

text:
Millwright Ron wrote:

Ya' have to wonder.  With all the truckers that are now idle because
(among many other things wrong) UAW "needs" to be paid $75 an hour for
doing nothing, is posting that screed here a good idea?


author: Robert

subject: Re: OT   UNION BUSTING

text:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:26:09 -0500, richard wrote:

Daimler = Mercedes Benz


author: The Honorable Dr. Rocky Roads Presiding Judge

subject: Re: OT   UNION BUSTING

text:
"Larry Sheldon" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Comment on "all the truckers that are now idle."

OUCH.  I'll use the Iowa 80 truckstop in Walcott, Iowa as an example.

As big as that truckstop is a few months ago you could drive in there and
find the place filled.  Now there are plenty of open spots all night long.

I have seen with other truckstops where I used to have trouble finding a
place to park that now have empty spots all night long.

There is definitely something going on with the amount of trucks being used
when compared to a few months ago..

Rocky


author: Harley Davidson

subject: OT: Flavored Water

text:
Does anyone know of a way to make our own flavored water? We all love it,
but with the amount of water our kids and us drink, it's too darn expensive
to buy the Fruit 2 O's and Dasani's.

TIA,
Harley


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
Maybe where you are :)  in the Czech Republic, it's just called
"sirup".

Prague Jen


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
It wouldn't matter - you couldn't get the ones I buy in the US anyway -
I'm in the Czech Republic.  But the suggestion from the poster about
the flavoring syrups for coffee is a good one.  Or what about grenadine
syrup ( like for Shirley Temples)?  Maybe try Trader Joe's or Whole
Foods - they may have something similar.

Or, if you're really ambitious, you could try making your own - my
mother-in-law makes killer raspberry syrup.

Prague Jen


author: MsLiz

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
JennP wrote:

Two great stores IMHO.  But sadly, Wholefoods has a few of the same
practices as Walmart.  One being pretty scrupulous and uncaring about
putting smaller businesses out of business.  They are also anti union.
As much as I love the store, I struggle with going there and supporting
them.  Lucky for me, it's a long drive :-)


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
If you have a Cost Plus in your area you can find there syrups that are
also used to flavor coffees that would work here too


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
MsLiz wrote:

Ugh...meant unscrupulous.  Don't you love responding to your own
post???

 and uncaring about


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
Exactly - when I make koolaid lemonade (one of my only prepared drink
vices), I use about half to one-third the recommended one cup of
sugar...

Also, here in Europe, they sell syrups made from fruit that are
designed to be mixed with water in proportions according to taste...too
bad this idea hasn't made it over to the US yet...

Prague Jen
momma to Max, 8 and Emma, 4


author: dragonlady

subject: Re: OT: Flavored Water

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Harley Davidson" <[email]> wrote:

I just put slices of various citrus fruits in water, and let it sit for
a bit.

I don't know how it compares with Fruit 2 O's or Dasani, as I don't
drink those -- but I enjoy water with fruit slices.

Sliced strawberries works, too -- but citrus is cheap and always
available here.  We have orange and lime trees in our backyard.


author: Merle Finch

subject: Re: OT: Flavored Water

text:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:19:05 -0400, "Harley Davidson"
<[email]> wrote:

I take a quart of water and squeeze a lemon or lime into it and add
one packet of sweetener. It's sugar-free, very slightly sweetened and
lightly-flavored and cheap. Keep it in the fridge and pour as needed.


author: Barbara

subject: Re: OT: Flavored Water

text:
MsLiz wrote:

Actually, there are a lot of health concerns with stevia.

http://www.cspinet.org/new/stevia.html

That's why it's not approved for use as a food additve in the US.

Barbara


author: JennP

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
"Harley Davidson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
expensive

Don't know how to make it, but you don't have to buy brand name. Warehouses
like BJ's Sams and Costco all have their own "house brand" which is
dramatically less expensive. HTH

JennP.


subject: Re: OT: Flavored Water

text:
I second the idea of herbal tea, just leave 2 tea bags in the jug of
water overnight and you'll have flavored water.  Also can add a small
amount of a strongly flavored juice such as cherry.


author: Stephanie

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
"Harley Davidson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Put water in glass. Add flavor. My favorites are a splash of lemon, lime or
orange juice. I think fruit2o is nasty because of the artificial sweetener.


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
Ugh, I'm not all that ambitious! But, I will look around - I think I'm onto
something.

Say . . . think your mother-in-law is ready for a vacation . . . ?!

~ Harley

<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Nikki

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
[email] wrote:

 But the suggestion from the poster about

You could probably use snow cone syrup.  I see that in the dreaded Wal-Mart.
Never had it so that is only a guess.


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Maybe try Trader Joe's or Whole

 We have one of each of those opening here in town!!! Actually, Whole Foods
opened yesterday and TJ's is opening soon I think.

JennP. (doing a foodie happy dance)


author: Welches

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

They're called "squash"
Debbie


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
Yes, yes, yes - that's what I need. Some syrup. Raspberry flavored syrup for
my water. I don't need a blast of flavor, just a hint of it - and I could
care less about the sugar. I use Splenda for all my sugar needs, and the
flavored waters I buy say on the labels "sweetened with Splenda."  If you
can recall, what are the brand names of the syrups to which you are
referring?

~ Harley

<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
Must be the sweetness that I love so much!  I'm hooked on Dasani Raspberry
water but it seems like such a wasste of money when I have perfect well
water coming right out of my tap.

Thanks to all for the tips!

~ Harley

"Stephanie" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
it,
or
sweetener.


author: Cuddlefish

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
Harley Davidson wrote:

In Australia we call these syrups cordial.

Jacqueline


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
"Harley Davidson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Personally, given that, I would use liquid sweetner, either a tiny amount of
corn ssyrup or liquid artificial sweetener. Sugar will have a grainy
consistency in the water, I would think.


author: enigma

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
"Stephanie" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

 make simple syrup. boil water. add sugar. stir until
dissolved. cool, pour into clean bottle & refrigerate until
ready to use. probably keeps forever but i trash it after a
week.
 the amounts of water & sugar depend on how much syrup you
want.
lee <artificial sweetener makes me quite ill>


subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
"enigma" <[email]> wrote in message
news:Xns96FACDE163700enigmaempirenet@199.125.85.9...

well, you don't even have to do that - sugar dissolves! marvellous :-)
unless you put in too much, in which case some of it won't. but we cannot
possibly be talking about THAT much sugar. a spoonful in a glass of water
dissolves pretty quickly indeed.
kylie


author: Sue

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
"0tterbot" <[email]> wrote in message

And even if it doesn't, you can mix some sugar with some hot water to
dissolve it and then put it in the cold water in the refrigerator.


author: Ericka Kammerer

subject: Re: Flavored Water

text:
0tterbot wrote:

	The whole *point* of making a sugar syrup is to
get more dissolved than would dissolve otherwise.  You'd
be surprised how much sugar it takes to make things as
sweet as many of the flavored waters.

Best wishes,
Ericka


author: Norm Hanevich

subject: Legal Software

text:
I am looking for a product that allows you to type in or import the legal
mumbo-jumbo contract info and provides the 'I accept', and 'I do not accept'
buttons, registering a user in some database for tracking and legal
compliance.  Is there such a product?


author: Doc O'Leary

subject: Re: Legal Software

text:
In article <uGTJ6.86318$[email]>, Norm
Hanevich <[email]> wrote:

Yes.
(Answered in as detailed a manner as asked)


author: Joshua Heard

subject: Re: Legal Software

text:
Search findforms.com or google.com for a license contract that you can cut
and paste.

"Norm Hanevich" <[email]> wrote in message
news:uGTJ6.86318$[email]...
accept'


author: Franz Garsombke

subject: cholesterol...

text:
I, like many people on this board, exercise 5 days a week and eat a healthy diet. My diet consists of 10-15% fat and 60-65% carbohydrates. I just had my cholesterol checked and it was 228! My hdls were pretty high but it is still bad to have a cholesterol level that high. My doctor told me that the body is the worst culprit of producing cholesterol. I guess genes are a major factor in the battle against cholesterol. Since I can't change my lifestyle (as far as eating and exercising), does anyone have any

suggestions that don't require medication? My friend suggested a tablespoon of psyillium a day. Another friend suggested oatbran. I need Help!!\


author: Navaneet Kumar

subject: Re: cholesterol...

text:
In article <ufranz.736536926@mcl> [email] (Franz Garsombke) writes:

Are you sure your level is so high ? I had my cholesterol level tested as
240 after I had fast for about 10 hours. I took the test again after fasting
for about 15 hours. The cholesterol level dropped to 180.

The cholesterol tests are prone to fluctuations.

Navneet


author: Savithri

subject: Re: cholesterol...

text:
In article <ufranz.736536926@mcl>, [email] (Franz Garsombke) writes:
|>
|>  I, like many people on this board, exercise 5 days a week
 and eat a healthy diet. My diet consists of 10-15% fat
 and 60-65% carbohydrates. I just had my cholesterol checked and it was 228!
 My hdls were pretty high but it is still bad to have a cholestero|
 l level that high. My doctor told me that the body is the worst
 culprit of producing cholesterol. I guess genes are a major factor
 in the battle against cholesterol. Since I can't change my lifestyle
 (as far as eating and exercising), does anypsyillium a day.
 Another friend suggested oatbran. I need Help!!

   **************************

I have had similar problems. My cholestrol has always
been on the high side (>220), although my lifestyle is
similar to yours. LOW-FAT(5-15%fat out of 1200-1500cals/day),
workout 6 times a week.  My PERSONAL opinion is that this
magic number of 200 overall count is all baloney.  It is
ludicrous to have one number to represent an entire species(human).
It is like saying that everybody who does not have their
body temperature at 98.6F are at some health risk.
I believe that maintaining a healthy lifestyle IS absolutely
essential.  These medical numbers are mere guidelines and
are no indication of the actual fitness of any particular
individual.  What angers me is the generalisation of such things.
My husband who does NOT maintain a healthy lifestyle
(40-50% of calories from fat), no regular exercise and
moderately overweight always comes out with 150-160 reading,
and he believes he has nothing to worry.
I KNOW that I am much healthier than he is and this cholestrol
number must be treated with great caution.

So if I were you, I would quit worrying unless you have
symptoms of some kind that could suggest that you may
have some medical problem, if not 228 is just another number
in the numerical system.

Regards
savithri


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: cholesterol...

text:
In article <ufranz.736536926@mcl>, [email] (Franz Garsombke) writes:

I read in a newspaper a story that talked about eating oatmeal or oatbran to
lose cholesterol.  Personally speaking, I eat oatmeal every morning, and at my
last physical, my cholesterol level was 132.  He asked me if I ran, and I had
to reply that I didn't.  He thought that was funny.

(By the way, I eat oatmeal uncooked--I put milk and sugar with it like any
other cereal.)

Tony Kemp
MicroComputer Services Consultant
Utah State University
                                    [email]


author: Eric Walker

subject: [META] Posting Mechanics (was Re:top...)

text:
The matter of top posting having been (or still being) the
subject of a running thread here, I thought I'd pass along some
thoughts on posting methodology that were developed a while ago
in another forum after some back and forth discussion.

These points all refer to the _mechanical_ aspects of posting to
usenet, not (except peripherally) to what anyone actually has to
say in a given post.

In my opinion, they are pretty much consensus among regular,
experienced usenet participants.  (Top posting is #9).

1.  Line width: many newsreaders will automatically wrap the
lines of incoming (to-be-read) messages at 78 or fewer
characters (assuming a fixed-width font).  It thus behooves
posters to constrain the line length of their original text
(anything you are writing, as opposed to quoted lines) to
something significantly shorter, say 64 characters; that way, if
your text ends up, as it might well do, as a third or fourth or
fifth-level quotation in someone else's down-the-line reply,
readers' displays won't have spurious line breaks thrown in,
which false line breaks make reading very annoying.  You know,
this sort of thing:

blah and blah,

Short original-text lines have trivial effect on the actual byte
length of any post (as if, with live toilet-cams on the web,
usenet bandwidth mattered).

2.  Subject-line prefixes:  It is, of course, a common plaint
that posts understood by the poster to be off-topic ought to be
prefixed by  [OT]  in the subject line; I just mention it again.
But I further suggest or propose that posts like this, meta-
posts, posts about the group or about posting, be prefixed as
this one was with [META].

3.  Subject-line length: many newsreaders will truncate the
subject line at 40 characters.  When creating a thread, or
retitling an ongoing one, try to keep all of it--or, at very
least, a sufficiently meaningful part--to within 40 characters.

4.  Thread drift: we all, I think, know this, but it doesn't
hurt to recall it--when a thread has drifted, it ought asap to
be retitled in a meaningful way.  If this very one turns into a
discussion of the best species of wood to cut for firewood, it
ought, as soon as the drift is clearly not one or two errant
posts, be retitled by the next poster as:

     Firewood (was [META] Posting Mechanics)

(thereby also heeding suggestion 3 above).

5.  Telegraphy: as the toilet-cam reference ought to remind us,
we are not and need not be sending telegrams: a few extra bytes
in a usenet post will not bring the internet to its knees.  (Why
is that silly metaphor so common?)  The chances are good that
your readers will know what YMMV, IIRC, IMHO, and their like
signify, but "good" is not 100% certainty: there are always
newbies, and we ought to be encouraging newbies, not acting like
this is "Tubby's Klubhous" and using "secret passwords" to
discourage newcomers.

Moreover, and this may be simply an uncommon personal attitude,
I feel that it is only simple courtesy to spell out the things I
mean; otherwise, I feel, I am showing a disdain for my readers--
"you aren't worth my effort in typing out two or three words."

6.  Cross-posting: this is a notorious sore point on usenet.
All I have to say about it is to recall someone or t'other's
famous remark, "I try never to insult anyone accidentally."  In
other words, be sure you know to which groups you are posting
when you reply to a message; if you want to perpetuate (or
initiate) a cross-posting, that's your choice, but don't do it
out of simple ignorance.  Learn your software: know how to
"trim" target groups you don't think your reply should go to.

7.  Signatures: it is worth repeating that many newsreaders will
make use of a properly configured signature divider to suppress
quotation of the signature in a reply message.  The correct
delimiter is a line containing exactly three characters: two
dashes *and a blank space*.  It is a convenience for your
readers if you always leave at least one blank line before the
delimiter.

Netiquette suggests that signatures proper (excluding the
delimiter) be a maximum of four lines.  Those enamored of long
lines in their signatures ought to be aware that those sigs look
pretty silly when the lines get wrapped in someone else's
newsreader display; holding sig-block line lengths down is
simple prudence.  (The commonest victims are those who try to
compress two sig blocks into one, a left-hand and a right-hand
block; pick just one and fly with it.)

8.  Selective quoting: most of the time, what we have to say
relative to the particular post we are responding to does not
require a new reader to see every single line that anyone ever
posted on the entire thread.  When responding, edit out as much
as possible, leaving just enough that someone just entering the
thread with your message has some idea what your original text
is talking about.

Elided text should always be indicated, so the next reader knows
that something was left out.  A standard mark when several lines
are being dropped is  [...]  at the excision point (and a blank
line above and below that mark helps clarity a lot).  Also, when
quoting lines from which you don't need the beginning or ending
for the sense (as, for example, when the "beginning" is just the
last few words of an irrelevant sentence from an elided previous
line, or even an introductory phrase or clause not needed for
clarity) standard ellipsis marks will do.  For an opening, three
dots is the norm:

and, as that example shows, four dots is the norm for the close
(the first three of the four show dropped words and the fourth
is the proper period itself).  One usually puts spaces between
the dots, but in cases where those would spill over a line break
(you *do* know where your line breaks will appear, don't you?)
eliding the spaces is tolerable.

9.  "Top posting": The preferred mode of responding to posts is
to insert your comment text *after* the passage it applies to;
putting your comments above the referenced text is considered
poor form, because it makes it a deal harder for the next reader
to follow the logical sequence of the ideas.

10. Sane line spacing: there is no fixed rule here, but my
suggestion is to leave a single blank line between quoted text
and your commentary on that text, and a double-space of blank
lines between blocks of thought.  That is--

to which you reply . . . .

which you wittily demolished with . . . .

and you get the idea.  It just makes the reader's task simpler.

OK, I've propounded ten suggestions, so--there being something
magical about lists whose members match in number the usual
count of our fingers (yes, or toes)--I'll stop there.


author: BD

subject: Re: [META] Posting Mechanics (was Re:top...)

text:
Does anyone else get more tired of this kind of preaching than they do of
the 'sore-points' mentioned in the preaching?...  I sure the heck do.
Find a kindergarten and take your "here's how you should do things, little
one" teachings there, why doncha?...

"Eric Walker" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Steve Cothran

text:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:27:11 -0700 (PDT), "Eric Walker"
<[email]> wrote:

I hate those who quote a whole post for a one-line reply, don't you?


author: Larry Caldwell

subject: Stupid Townies

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] writes:

If you had anything to say, nobody would care how you said it.


text:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:54:53 GMT, BD wrote:

Not a bad idea--then the kindergarteners might not grow up to be
as rude as many of the kindergarteners playing on the net today
are.


author: John Klausner

text:
Yes, I do too.  And as for top posting, I prefer it...if the thread is
current, and post responded to is reasonable in length, I assume others
will understand my post without reference, but include it in case
someone needs to know the reference.  If I respond point by point, or
specifically to a point made by another poster, I'll quote and post
afterward.  Maybe this is "incorrect" by internet standards but c'est la
vie.  Who establishes internet posting protocol anyway?  Personally, I
find it very annoying to find a long post quoted with the response at
the bottom where I have to scroll down to find a hardly worthwhile one
liner!!  In fact, my netscape program won't let me do it that way ...
gives me a  "too much quoted material" response!
SueK

Steve Cothran wrote:
entire post snipped


text:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:26:09 GMT, Steve Cothran wrote:

[...]

Yes, I do.  I daresay everyone does.  More to the point, why are
you trying so very hard to look like a total jerk?

The mechanical usage details that started this thread have been
posted and discussed--in a civil and civilized manner--on
several other usenet groups, and the majority opinions from
those discussions were set forth as the material I quoted.

If someone here thinks one or more of the suggestions set forth
is, for some reason, not an optimum pattern for usenet behavior,
a discussion of why not would be in order.

If, on the other hand, the position is that everyone on usenet,
or even just in this group, already knows about and follows all
those suggestions--well, that's just plain silly.

The idea behind the suggestions is the idea behind all manners:
to make life easier and more pleasant for all.  It is not the
promotion of some hidden agenda, any more than table manners
are.  The point is not to dictate to anyone how to behave, but
to try to convey information that not everyone necessarily
possesses.  (For example, many posters, even with long usenet
experience, are unaware of the blank space needed to make a
sig-line divider that news software can detect.)

Why the torch and gasoline?  If you're so infinitely wise and
informed that this is all elementary, perhaps others are not.
But even if everyone is, the intent was clearly to be helpful,
so why the infantile temper tantrum and other behavior?


subject: Re: Stupid Townies

text:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 04:22:17 GMT, Larry Caldwell wrote:

[...]

Why must it be assumed that anyone who writes with reasonable
grammar is a townie?  I'm on 40 acres amidst wheatfields for
miles around, and have been for years.  You, in effect, are
insulting rural residents.

What is it in the post--which was relevant to a parallel post
then running--that you find objectionable?  I have seen that
post in virtually identical words on a number of other
discussion groups, but only on this one has there been any
suggestion that it is damfool nonsense.  Draw your own
conclusions.


text:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 13:09:04 -0700 (PDT), "Eric Walker"
<[email]> wrote:

Fatty,fatty, two by four.
Can't get through the garden door.

What comes after 79?
80.
You're a big fat lady with a bald-headed baby.

Were you the "Ill tell !!!" kid?


text:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:25:50 -0700, John Klausner
<[email]> wrote:

.  Who establishes internet posting protocol anyway?

I think his name is Eric, or Owlcraft, or some such crap.