subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
In article <[email]>, Mike Turco
<[email]> writes

O.K.  I will concede that the original idea of a patent was to protect
the little guy against the big one and that, now, it tends to protect
the big ones against everyone else.
However, the cost of an initial application is minimal, 17.00 or so the
last time I made an application in the UK - brief description plus
principal claim.   That buys you 6 months to get the paperwork right and
to expand on what other countries or areas you want cover in.  It will
be at least a year before anything is published.   During that year, you
can add to it and refine it without loosing priority and you can even
withdraw it and resubmit.

The point of it is to establish a priority.

Yes, but if I were a financier, I would be open to an argument that says
"Here is an idea, here is the patent application, establishing priority,
and this is how much it will cost to develop it into a usable patent.  I
would look upon doing the market research and establishing whether the
idea has a commercial value as something that falls within my sphere of
activity anyway.   I would certainly check it and not take the
inventor's word for it.

Anyone who comes to me with the proverbial sealed box would be politely
shown the door, be there ever-so-many projections business plans and
cash flow charts.

If a patent application has been made, I, as a financier, can make a
contract with the inventor which establishes precisely what I am getting
for my money - a definable slice of however big that cake turns out to
be - and goals and a timetable of what money I need to spend and when.

I have seen several projects go badly astray over the years and ALL of
them were as a result of the "inventor" not keeping his side of the
bargain, never the moneymen reneging.


author: Grahame Olney

subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
Influence peddling shows results. Giant corporations buy government
legislation-making for a reason.

No. That's the way Hollywood would write it. Patent time is wasted
time. Professional Investors and Financiers in technical ventures are
knowledgeable enough to know patents are about disclosures of
competitive edges. I've designed circuitry and systems for many
corporations over the years and only the biggest in the set required
me to due the patent paperwork. These days product lifetimes are
shorter than the patent process due to continual technology advances
and tight competition in all but unnoticed niches.

If I was financing a startup and they started talking about taking
time to patent a process, I lose my respect for them. I'll finance all
sort of interesting ways to protect intellectual property but never
patent activity.

Did that doorway pass Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak?  :)

If the product doesn't make money, how likely is the patent to make
money? Obviously your argument is actually, "If it can't stand up to a
patent test, can the product make money?" Patents are by all readily
apparent evidence no indication on money making potential. It only
effects knock-offs which infer you have made enough money to be
noticed and then copied. That's part of the reason product lifetimes
are so short.

Now, if you have a good innovation and its non-intuitive, those
cloners may have a hard time figuring it out. Time they'd rather spend
cloning something easier.

Most projects fail. Venture Capitalist understand that. The ones that
don't fail... score big and that's why they invest in many projects
concurrently. Moneymen renegging won't tend to kill any project as the
team will just go to the next moneyman so by definition there is not
much linkage between moneymen and inventor results as you framed it.

The challenges of developing technology or manufacturing and item run
up against very real reasons for failure. Withdrawn finances are just
an indicator that the progress doesn't indicate successful competion.
That's capitalism, bad ideas and implementations die off to better
solutions.

-Grahame Olney


author: AL

subject: misc.rural ???

text:
I checked the group today for the first time in a week or two and I had
to do a double take when I saw the posts. Who let all the veggie nuts
in??? Its bad enough I have to watch my 16 yr old daughter eat what I
imagine is rotten vegetable matter mooshed into some burger looking
thing, but then I sign on here to see the group overrun with these nuts.
She rolls her eyes when I ask so maybe someone here can answer my
question - why does Boca, among others, make non-meat products that are
carefully designed to look and approximately taste like meat when the
veggie nuts are so opposed to eating meat? Isn't there something
hypocritical or at least mildly dishonest about that?

I say 'approximately taste like meat' but to my buds it taste like
rotten vegetable matter mooshed into a burger looking thing, complete
with fake grill marks. Phoney food.

AL


author: Larry Caldwell

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
Enigma writes:

One of my best buddies in high school was an Adventist, 100%
vegetarian.  We ate at each other's house lots of times, and I never
got up fromt the table at his house feeling hungry.  At my house, we
canned and froze our own vegetables in the summer, and always had at
least two vegetable courses with every meal.  When he came for dinner,
my mom cooked extra vegetables.  Hmm.  She used to make this baked
green bean and onion thing with shredded potato crust that was
delicious.  I need to get that recipe...

During the days of real vegetarians, those extruded vegetable product
things didn't exist.  It was more work to be a vegetarian, but the food
was home prepared and tasted great.  No one had ever heard of tofu.

Anyway, my whole family gets pretty vegetarian in the summer, with all
the corn on the cob, berries, fresh vegetables and such.  One of my
co-workers is a vegetarian.  Last week we had a pot luck at work, so I
brought a salad.  He has me pegged as an unrepentant carnivore, but I
know how to make a decent salad.  Fresh spinach, green onions,
cauliflower, broccoli, carrots, asparagus.roasted sunflower seeds,
sweet red peppers, feta cheese and lemon juice.  Surprisingly, it was
one of the most popular dishes at the pot luck.  I made a large
stainless steel bowl of salad and it all got eaten.

A decent vegetarian meal should taste good no matter who you are.
Obviously, many ARAs and vegans came to their beliefs via personality
disorder, but there are still real vegetarians out there that are not
hate mongers and know how to cook.

Larry


author: Offbreed

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
AL wrote:

Trolls and twits.

Try this:

http://www.netaxs.com/home/h/nfilter/

Nfilter is capable of filtering on any fields that appear in the header
of a news article, not just fields in the overview (normally news
clients can only filter on author, subject, etc). For example, it can
filter on path (eg. all posts from news.foo.net), newsgroups (eg. all
posts cross-posted to alt.foo), nntp-posting-host, etc, etc.

Nfilter does this by acting as a local news proxy. It takes commands
from your news client and passes them on to your news server. It
analyses the list of message headers returned by your news server and,
based on the filter rules that you write, either drops the headers so
that you don't see them or marks them with a flag to let you know they
are filtered.


author: Not Me

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
"AL"

| I checked the group today for the first time in a week or two and I had
| to do a double take when I saw the posts. Who let all the veggie nuts
| in??? Its bad enough I have to watch my 16 yr old daughter eat what I
| imagine is rotten vegetable matter mooshed into some burger looking
| thing, but then I sign on here to see the group overrun with these nuts.
| She rolls her eyes when I ask so maybe someone here can answer my
| question - why does Boca, among others, make non-meat products that are
| carefully designed to look and approximately taste like meat when the
| veggie nuts are so opposed to eating meat? Isn't there something
| hypocritical or at least mildly dishonest about that?
|
| I say 'approximately taste like meat' but to my buds it taste like
| rotten vegetable matter mooshed into a burger looking thing, complete
| with fake grill marks. Phoney food.

My thoughts?  Let those that don't want none have found memories of not
having any.


subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
(AL) says...

If Mozilla won't filter on just about anything, why don't you download a
good newsreader and learn to use it?  The nut cases are all promiscuous
crossposters.  Delete everything crossposted to more than 3 newsgroups
and you will never see them.


author: Steve IA

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
AL wrote:

I don't know what it is about that thread, but my KF won't touch it. I
can't filter it for having more than 2 crossposts.  I've been KF'ing
individual posters from other groups who continue to beat this dead
horseradish.

Steve 41N
southiowa


author: enigma

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
AL <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

 i think you need to kill crossposts. i haven't seen any of
the veggie nuts.
 and i agree on the veggie burgers et al. have you seen the
"chicken" that's molded to look like half a chicken. eww!
 when i was vegetarian (i got over it), i never ate fake meat.
i don't see the point of fake meat. if you're eating that, you
might as well be eating the real thing... besides there are
thousands of really yummy recipes that use *real* food & not
fake food, like the "meat".

 yeah, they don't taste good at all, unless you're really good
at fooling yourself or have dead tastebuds...
 my housemate eats that stuff. he's a vegetarian that hates
vegetables. we contantly tease him about his favorite brand,
which is called 'I Can't Believe It's Not <beef, chicken,
etc>'. we call it 'I Can't Believe It's Not Food'. it stinks
when he cooks it, too. nasty stuff.
lee


author: Chad Gore

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:01:36 -0600, AL <[email]> wrote:

//////////
 Some people try to fit in even though they don't ! But they love this
group because they have learned so much from it , I think we all have.

//////////////////
But if they keep adding soy to it , what will it be ????
 I like my sirloin burgers ,"Sirloin". :)

Why do you think they call it Dope ??


subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
[email] wrote in news:1111771882.619073.262030
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

 who are you replying to & what are you talking about?
 if your pathetic newsreader doesn't quote automagically, learn
to cut and paste... unless you enjoy looking like an idiot.
lee


author: Elmo

subject: Re: misc.rural ???

text:
Steve IA wrote:
I just mark those threads 'Ignore' the first time I see a new one.  It's amazing
how the 75 new messages get reduced to 14 that way.


author: Fabian La Maestra

subject: FS: Assorted Computer Items                 ..,.

text:
Hi all,
	I have some assorted items for sale. All Items have
been tested and are in 100% working order and are sold AS-IS.
Feel free to send any questions to [email] and I'll
get back to you asap. Thanks!

Please feel free to make an offer for a bundle purchase as
prices are negotiable.

Items for sale:

1 (one) Diamond Stealth 24 Video Card (16-bit ISA).
      $7 OBO  (Good Condition, Used)

1 (one) Philips Nino 510 PC-to-NINO Data cable.
	$15 OBO (BRAND NEW)

1 (one) PC AT Keyboard to ps/2 converter cable. (length: 4 inches)
	$1.50 OBO (BRAND NEW)

1 (one) PS/2 extension cable. (length: 1 foot)
	$1.50 OBO (BRAND NEW)

1 (one) Internal 50-pin SCSI ribbon cable. 3 connetors total.
	$1.50 OBO (BRAND NEW)

1 (one) 3com USB-Ethernet adapter.
      $35 OBO (New)

3 (four) Internal power connection converters. Large 4-pin connector
to small 4-pin drive power connector.
      $0.30 Each OBO (New)

1(one) Sega Game Gear Portable Color Game system + external 4-hour
battery and charger.
	$30 OBO (Good Condition, Used)

1(one)  Nokia 21xx Series Vibra-Battery (BBT-1xv)
            $15 OBO (Slightly Used, Mint Condition)

6 (six) 3 1/2 (Female) -> 5 1/4 (Male) Floppy internal data connector
	$0.25 EACH (Brand NEW)

1(one) Serial 25pin (Female)->Serial 9pin RS232 (Male)
	$1 (NEW)

Note: Because there may be a shipping charge unless otherwise
pre-negotiated, it is recommended to "bundle" items together to absorb
the shipping cost. (General Shipping method unless otherwise
specified: Fully Insured First Class at $5)

 -Preferred method of payment is Money order or Cashiers check
 -Personal checks are accepted, but will delay shipment 2 (two) days.
 -Please note that I won't ship outside the U.S.
 -If COD, buyer pays COD charges as well.

Please reply by e-mail: [email]

For Sale By:

 Fabian La Maestra
 2061 Royal Fern Ct #11c
 Reston, VA 20191

Thanks,
Fabian

Fabian

http://www.site.gmu.edu/~flamaest          _______----_______
       Fabian La Maestra        ___---~~~~~.. ... .... ... ..~~~~~---___
     [email]   ==============================================
      CELL: 703-864-FABI        ---___                            ___---
 ________________________- .. ..   _--~~~~~-------____-------~~~~~
(____________________][__)____     -
   /       /____---~~~.. .. ..~~-_~       "Resistance is futile,
  <_____________________________-         you will be assimilated."
      ~~~~~~----__           _-               -Locutus of Borg

+-------------------------------------------+
| Studies show that research causes cancer. |
+-------------------------------------------+


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: $8 can return $100,000 in ONE MONTH

text:
In article <[email]>,  <[email]> wrote:
One more thing, the SEC is starting to watch the internet much closer so
be carful or you may get investigated.


author: KoT

subject: Mortgage:  Is it better to put down 20%

text:
Right now, I can easily put down 20% of mortgage and cover closing
costs.  But I would like to replace the floors, windows, and finish
the basement and buy better furniture, none of this have to be done
right away, although would certainly be nice.  For this I would need
extra 20k.
I think of two options
1) put down 15 % and get a two loans for 80% and 5% and make
improvements immediately.
2) Put down 20%, Get Home equity loan for 20k to fix up the place.
Can you get Home Equity shortly after you purchase the house?

Which of these would be least expensive, if to count all the extra
costs of loans, interest, and so on.


author: Billy

subject: Re: Mortgage:  Is it better to put down 20%

text:
One option is to see how much credit line you can tap if you have a VISA
credit card. My VISA company periodically offers me VISA checks to write
until a certain date - usually 3 months from receipt of the mailing, with an
attractive 5.99% rate for the life of the check loan. That's about the same
rate I'm getting for my 30 yr mortgage. I have a $40k credit line, have a
minimal $1k balance, and need $15k beyond the 20% down, so I will do this:

* use this check to supplement the $15k cash that I would be using from the
equity of our home so that I'm satisfying the 20% down with less that 20% of
my equity.....thus avoiding PMI
* pocket that extra $15k cash for home improvements

I could also simply write the check for a home improvement after closing,
but there's a time limit on the check and I may not have the job completed
by then. If you have the open credit line - this is an option.

"KoT" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Eric Lee Green

text:
In article <[email]>, KoT ruminated:

Or 3) pay for it with a low-interest-rate credit card over a shorter
amount of time.

It depends on your cash flow and discipline. The 15% down option will
give you the cash at a lower interest rate with lower monthly payments.
Regarding getting a home equity loan shortly after you purchase the house,
that's what the 5% loan is, except it's gotten at the time you purchase
the house. Usually it's for a shorter term than the main mortgage.


author: Jungle Jim

text:
Eric Lee Green <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Also take into consideration you can deduct the interest paid on a home
equity (credit line), whereas you cannot on any credit card interest.


text:
That's right. Very good point.

"Jungle Jim" <[email]> wrote in message
news:Xns9312F26B27C50jungle22jimyahoocom@65.24.2.12...


author: Charlie Spitzer

text:
"Billy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

there isn't a day that goes by that i don't get an offer for 0% interest on
credit card transfers, usually for 9-12 months. i bought my last car with
this (a number of years ago before the latest 0% car interest rates hit).
when it came time for the promotional teaser rate to expire, i just
transferred it to another new card.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az


text:
Thats actually a pretty good idea, but how do you get 20,000 in
credit?  Do you use several cards or something?
"Charlie Spitzer" <[email]> wrote in message news:<b1bo6o$h9d$[email]>...


text:
"KoT" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<b1bo6o$h9d$[email]>...
home
interest.
on
with
hit).

well, i built a house, and the credit card companies were quick to increase
my credit line high. when you're putting down 30k or 40k at a time for a
truss package, concrete slabs, wood deliveries, cabinets, etc, it adds up
quickly. scary too, never saw money go out so fast and in such large chunks.
since the construction loan paid off the credit card bill at the end of the
month, i never carried a balance on one, so i was a GOOD customer to the
bank.

shop around. i got airline miles for building a good portion of my house
too. i couldn't get miles for transfers, only for new purchases.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az


author: Dan Solomon

text:
"Charlie Spitzer" <[email]> wrote in
news:b1eeo1$qgp$[email]:

That makes you a BAD customer, because then they don't make any money off
you.  If you were a GOOD customer, you would continually pay the minimum
payment and be indebted to them all your life.


text:
"Dan Solomon" <[email]> wrote in message
news:Xns931492AFDCFC7dansoloattbi@216.148.227.77...

well, what percentage off the top did they get for me running all that float
credit through them?


author: Martin Phipps

subject:
Re: Mother "pimped out daughters, 14 and 7, allowing several
 different men to have sex with them up to 20 times"

text:
On May 16, 7:30 pm, "Obama's Voters" <[email]>
wrote:

Liberal?  She sounds like an entrepreneur to me.  She saw a demand and
she supplied it.  It didn't matter that her actions were illegal or
immoral.  How is that liberal?

Martin


author: 2966 Dead

text:
On Thu, 17 May 2012 08:45:27 -0700, Dan wrote:

True libertarians will be quite proud of the mother.


text:
On May 21, 10:32 pm, Gunner Asch <[email]> wrote:

Effect is a noun.  The verb is affect.

*aren't

So I take it you've never been formally educated.  Is that right?

Martin


text:
On May 21, 10:01 am, Gunner Asch <[email]> wrote:

*affect

*boy

You should have come out and said you were a five year old.  I would
have known not to bother responding to you.

Martin


text:
On 5月21日, 上午2時01分, Gunner Asch <[email]> wrote:

You misspelled "rightwingers".

Martin


text:
On 5月21日, 下午1時59分, Martin Phipps <[email]> wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

"Libertarianism is generally considered to be the group of political
philosophies which emphasize freedom, liberty, and voluntary
association. There is no general consensus amongst scholars on the
precise definition. Libertarians generally advocate a society with a
government of small scope relative to most present day societies or no
government whatsoever."

Martin


text:
On May 21, 12:49 am, Gunner Asch <[email]> wrote:

Hmm.  Perhaps you are suffering from dyslexia.  They are called
RIGHTwingers.  You know, like oil company managers or Savings and Loan
operators.  You know, people who do things that are "illegal and
immoral".

You really need to get your reading comprehension looked into.

Martin


author: Gunner Asch

subject: Re: Mother "pimped out daughters, 14 and 7, allowing several different men to have sex with them up to 20 times"

text:
On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:35:34 -0700 (PDT), Martin Phipps
<[email]> wrote:

Because her actions were illegal and immoral. A typical world view held
by Leftwingers.."just do it"

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


text:
On Thu, 17 May 2012 15:39:13 +0000 (UTC), 2966 Dead <[email]>
wrote:

Another lie by our leftwinger buffoon.  He does that so blatantly its
fascinating.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


text:
On May 17, 9:36 am, 2966 Dead <[email]> wrote:

True.

Martin


author: emoneyjoe

text:
On Thu, 17 May 2012 08:45:27 -0700, Dan <[email]> wrote:

       Is there a commie in the house?


author: Phlip

text:
On May 17, 10:53 am, Tommy <[email]> wrote:

Yeah, we call them banksters.


text:
On May 17, 12:54 am, wolfagain <[email]> wrote:

Good point. Vices such as child prostitution are almost non-existent
in countries that tax their rich fairly.


text:
On May 17, 6:30 am, wolfagain <[email]> wrote:

Romney never benefited from our country's lavish Wealthcare programs?

They got where they are by picking the right parents...


text:
On Tue, 22 May 2012 03:23:01 -0700 (PDT), Martin Phipps
<[email]> wrote:

Indeed. Think about it a bit.  <VBG>

<VBG>

Spelling flames..the last resort of the incompetent.

<VBG>

Gunner, owner, Coyote Engineering

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


text:
On Mon, 21 May 2012 17:49:53 -0700 (PDT), Martin Phipps
<[email]> wrote:

Actually..in this case..its "effect"

Sorry Boi...your spelling issues are of little concern to me. But you
Skitz do tend to be picky fuckers arent you?

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


text:
On 5月23日, 上午2時19分, Gunner Asch <[email]> wrote:

"symptoms that effect you" should be "symptoms that affect you" as in
"you are affected by these symptoms".  It's a verb.

Ah, so you've admitted now to misspelling rightwingers then.  Good. :)

Martin


text:
On Sun, 20 May 2012 22:59:54 -0700 (PDT), Martin Phipps
<[email]> wrote:

Humm...lemme check.

Nope..spelled Leftwingers just fine.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


text:
On Mon, 21 May 2012 02:57:10 -0700 (PDT), Martin Phipps
<[email]> wrote:

Oh!  I see the problem!!

Since its a given that leftwingers are mentally ill...a bit of research
turns up the two symptoms that effect you the most....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference

With a third supporting the main two....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

So ...boi? Id strongly suggest you go back on your meds again, before
something bad happens.  Shrug

Your choice. The Great Cull is fast approaching...perhaps you will live
through it..or if you continue unmedicated..you will find yourself being
kicked off a lawn chair and dangling from a bit of barbed wire around
your neck..your toes just touching the ground as you twitch and dance as
the blackness grows behind your eyes.

Shrug again.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


author: Leon Manfredi

subject:
Re: Mother "pimped out daughters, 14 and 7, allowing several different
 men to have sex with them up to 20 times"

text:
On 5/19/2012 1:06 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

As one, who read deeply into this statement and comment,
it appears, if not out and out, refers to Romney, than anyone else....


author: Eddie Haskell

text:
"Phlip" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On May 17, 10:53 am, Tommy <[email]> wrote:

The banks did the democrat's bidding and what we call you is a lying nigger.

"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy mortgages from lenders and bundle them into
securities; that provides lenders the funds to lend more"

"In 1992, Congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases
of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under
that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and
creative in stimulating minority gains."

"The two companies are now required to devote 42% of their portfolios to
loans for low- and moderate-income borrowers"

"Although Fannie Mae actually has exceeded its target since 1994, it is
resisting any hike. It argues that a higher target would only produce more
loan defaults by pressuring banks to accept unsafe borrowers."

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/31/news/mn-42807

"The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory
overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a
decade ago."

"Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency
would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the
two largest players in the mortgage lending industry."

http://tinyurl.com/6lp5qu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8LA8hPgQtI

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1M1T2Y314

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

"McCain Letter Demanded 2006 Action on Fannie and Freddie"

"Sen. John McCain's 2006 demand for regulatory action on Fannie Mae and
Freddie Mac could have prevented current financial crisis, as HUMAN EVENTS
learned from the letter shown in full text below."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973

Unlike Bush and McCain, as senator, Obama did nothing, other than earn the
distinction of becoming the second largest recipient of F&F contributions in
the entire congress, even in his short stint there.

Bill Clinton himself said it best:

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting
any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to
put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."

-Bill Clinton

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any
kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of
Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee.
''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on
these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

-Eddie Haskell


text:
"Phlip" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On May 17, 12:54 am, wolfagain <[email]> wrote:

You really enjoy your position as UseNets little lying nigger, don't you?

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

-Eddie Haskell


text:
"Phlip" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On May 17, 6:30 am, wolfagain <[email]> wrote:

The third-world envy driven Negro speaks.

Go cut off your own nose and leave mine alone, you grunting fuckwit.

-Eddie Haskell


text:
On Sat, 19 May 2012 20:43:52 -0400, Leon Manfredi <[email]>
wrote:

Which statement might that be?

My sig? <VBG>

Its obvious that you are miffed that it does indeed refer to Obama
voters.  Shrug..nothing any of us can do about it.  You guys really are
mentally tweaked.  Fact of life. Deal with it.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


text:
On 5/20/2012 2:00 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

WOOPS....! When's the last time you've attended one of those weekly
Republican Stink...oops, I mean Think Tanks, where they hand you a list
of answer, and points that one can use to skirt around from answering
the question and points made.. Answer my point, or try to embarrass me
again.


text:
On Sun, 20 May 2012 23:22:57 -0400, Leon Manfredi <[email]>
wrote:

Sorry Trotsky..but Im a registered Democrat.

Care to try again? And no..I didnt allow them to put a USB plug in the
back of my skull so I could join some of my fellow Democrats at the
Useful Idiots phone bank

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
 capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
 It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".


author: Pete

subject: Pete's Progress

text:
Well, it's been 6 months since I've been diagnosed (T2) and I just
got the results of my latest blood test.

Current Test

Weight: 228 (5'8")

A1C: 5.1

Cholesterol: 143
HDL: 40
LDL: 78
Triglyceride: 162

I'm pretty happy with them, although my triglycerides went up a tad
since my last test (listed below). The first 3 months I was in panic
diet mode and my protein was from fish and poultry only, but these last
3 months I've reintroduced beef a couple times a week  and have 2
eggs nearly every morning. Would that be affecting the trigs, I wonder?
I asked my doctor and he just looked horrified and said, "Oh, don't
eat beef and so many eggs!" My weight loss has seemed to have slowed
way down, but it's still going down. I have increased the amount of
protein I have at dinner just because I found myself getting very
hungry later at night.

My meds after being initially diagnosed were:

Glipizide ER 5 mg
Metformin 500 mg(twice daily)
Lipitor 20 mg

After my 3 month test, my doctor took me off the Glucophage.
After this test, he told me to stop the Glipizide but to call him if my
fasting glucose gets over 140.
He cut my Lipitor from 20 to 10 mg.

I'm to come in and get bloodwork done in 2 months to see if this new
med regime works. He was very pleased with my diet and exercising, but
again told me to not eat red meat and to have eggs no more than three
times a week.  I couldn't promise him I'd follow that advice. I've
grown quite fond of my ham and eggs breakfasts.

Original Tests (6 months ago)

Weight: 271

Fasting Glucose 370

Mean Blood Glucose: 183
(can't find any A1C results on my copy!)

Cholesterol: 293
HDL: 29
LDL: Unable to calculate due to high triglyceride
Triglyceride: 1338

3 Month Test

Weight: 241

A1C 5.2

Cholesterol: 141
HDL: 38
LDL: 85
Triglyceride: 89

I'd like to thank all on this board who helped steer a befuddled newbie
toward a better handling of this disease and better way of life.

Pete


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
I'm turning out to be the same way... I've disgreed with his advice on
diet and on testing frequency, but can't bring myself to ignore it on
medicine. So I haven't started back up on the Metformin yet.


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Thanks, NG. That's something I should have researched. My doctor, when
originally prescribing the Metformin and Glipizide said that they would
help my body make more insulin. I'd wondered why he prescribed two
drugs for the same thing, but I was in a state of shock being told I
had diabetes and nodded my head numbly at everything he was saying.
Perhaps he told me what it really did and I was too stupified to absorb
his words.

Now the dilema. I have a full months worth of Metformin and another
refill on the prescription. I already know my doctor doesn't want me
taking it and I leave on a two week trip tomorrow. Do I start taking it
again until I get back and make an appointment with an endo? My feeling
is that it couldn't hurt... but I also know I ain't smarter than no
doctor.


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Well, I did call him and his biggest fear is that my blood sugar would
get too low. I told him I'd swallow each one with a coke, but he didn't
find me amusing. He expressed that he'd rather me not.


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Smart Al, and Smart Al-ice, and Smart Ozgir-Al, and Smart Prisc-Al-a
B-AL-lou, and Smart Oldal and all other smarties ya can't make an AL
joke from... Thanks!

I'd be curious to read your thoughts on my Metformin dilema ( see posts
6 thru 11). I think I've pretty much made up my mind to keep on taking
it and then seeing an Endo in a couple of weeks... I think... haven't
done it yet, but I don't think a couple more weeks on it will hurt.


author: Nicky

subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
"Pete" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Well, WOW! I wonder what that's done to your life expectancy!!
Congratulations.

Nicky.


author: Priscilla Ballou

subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Pete" <[email]> wrote:

Did he give you a rationale for that?  They won't be affecting your
lipids most likely.  The eggs certainly not.

Priscilla


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Well, six months back, when he told me how bad my cholesterol was, he
said not to eat red meat and limit my eggs. (He also told me to eat
oatmeal, which I did for a couple of weeks until I found this site and
the "test test test" post and saw how oatmeal was spiking me through
the roof!) He seems to have that old school mentality that eggs'll kill
ya. But he gave no explanation.

The only other nutritional advice he gave me was to eat fish, poultry
and lots of salad, stay away from saturated fats. I formulated my diet
from reading the Schwarzbien and Bernestien books and the the posts on
this site and after experimenting I've found what seems to be working.

I don't know how much is diet/exercise and how much is the Lipitor, but
I can live with those lipid numbers, so I'll still have my eggs for
breakfast and a steak and a burger a couple times a week.

On my previous test, my A1c was 5.2 and he was worried that it was too
low, but this time it was 5.1 and he seemed very pleased about it! A
couple months back, during a check-up, I'd brought him printouts from a
link that Alan had posted (I think it was Alan) about the lower your
A1c, the longer your life expectancy, and maybe he researched it a bit
and changed his opinion.

I feel kind of scared going at the diabetes med-free though.

Look at the time--gotta go work out!


author: Alan S

subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Hi Pete

Congratulations.

I find it easier to compare as a table. When you do that,
it's very impressive:

..............Diagnosis->..3mths->..Now
Weight:.............271->....241->..228 (5'8")
................FBG 370->A1C 5.2->..A1C: 5.1
Cholesterol:........293->....141->..143
HDL:................ 29->.....38->...40
LDL:..........................85->...78
Triglyceride:.................89->..162

That weight loss and A1c is brilliant. I've no idea why the
trigs rose, but I doubt it's a couple of eggs each day and
red meat three times weekly. My problem is LDL - my trigs
are low (80-90) and I eat an egg a day and at least double
the red meat you do.

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Pete wrote in message
<[email]>...

    This anal-retentive engineer raises the question:

   A triglycerides to HDL ratio greater than 3.0 indicates damage to
arteries from high Insulin Resistance-induced small LDL particles.

  Metformin reduces triglycerides levels and increases HDL levels:

   So your triglycerides to HDL ratio is too high but he takes you off
metformin? ? ? ?

1.   On the ratio of Triglycerides to HDL and LDL particle size:

  (caution:  massive amount of doctor-ese)

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/23/11/1679

  "Patients With Type 2 Diabetes and Normal HDL Cholesterol Levels
Robert Boizel

OBJECTIVE -- In patients with type 2 diabetes, a normal HDL cholesterol
level does not rule out that LDL particles may be small. Although techniques
for analyzing LDL subfractions are not likely to be used in clinical
practice, a prediction of LDL size based on a regular lipid profile may be
useful for assessment of cardiovascular risk.. . . .

. . . .The ratio was [greater than]1.33**** in 90% of the patients with
small LDL particles (95% CI 79.3-100) and 16.5% of those with larger LDL
particles.  . . .

. . . .Three prospective studies have established that small dense LDL is
the best predictor of future coronary artery disease (CAD) in nondiabetic
subjects, even after adjustment for confounding by TG, LDL cholesterol, and
HDL cholesterol levels [9]. . . . .The present preliminary data show that
the TG--to--HDL cholesterol ratio predicts LDL particle size in patients
with type 2 diabetes. . ."

****(ratio of 1.33 in European mmol/L units corresponds to ~3.0 in U.S.
mg/dL units)

  2.    Effects of Metformin on Triglycerides and HDL

   http://tinyurl.com/3jaqm

". . .Finally, fasting plasma TG concentration, very low density lipoprotein
(VLDL)-TG, and VLDL-cholesterol concentrations were significantly decreased,
while high density lipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol concentration was
significantly increased following metformin therapy. . ."

Regards
  Old Al


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Oh. That is a much better way to chart things!

Double the red meat... I like the sound of that.


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
Wow. Is everybody on this board named "Al" smart?
Thanks guys!


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
I posted this reply earlier, but it hasn't showed yet and my two later
replies on this thread have, so I'll repost. Please forgive if it shows
twice. (I don't know why I answered each post seperately. Must be lack
of Metformin!)

Man! There's always a catch with this disease! Just when I think I've
got things figured out...
That could explain the increase in trigs and also maybe the slowing
down of the weight loss.
I'm off on vacation starting Friday, but I'll discuss this with my
doctor when I get back... and thumb through the phone book for an
endocrinologist.

I thought getting off medicines that cause you to dump more insulin
into your body would be a good thing.

I did have a good workout, though!


author: Jennifer

subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
1.  It couldn't hurt.

2.  But you could always call or e your doctor and talk about it.

Jennifer

Pete wrote:


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
On 22 Jun 2005 22:20:22 -0700, "Pete" <[email]>
wrote:

Too smart to comment directly on meds - I'm much too
ignorant there. But I hope you find your answer.

I notice you spoke to your doc. I may not always agree with
doctors on diet or testing, but I never make a decision on
medication without carefully considering my doctor's advice,
and weighting his advice way above unqualified advice.

I have discussed varying and experimenting with alternatives
with him (I was concerned about lipitor at the time), but
monitored results closely (with blood tests and awareness of
possible side-effects), kept him informed, and immediately
followed his recommendations if things weren't working.

Is that enough of a hint? :-)

If you're not happy with a doctor's advice - find another,
no matter how awkward or expensive that may be or how far
you need to travel to do it. What is your health worth?

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Nicky" <[email]> wrote:

Amen!  and ditto.

Priscilla


subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Pete" <[email]> wrote:

Yeah, he needs to keep up.

Your body, your science experiment.  ;-)

Aha!  So he's educatable.  Excellent.

I missed his taking you off metformin until OldAl pointed it out.
That's a really bad idea in my estimation.  I fired my internist and got
my butt to an endocrinologist when my internist wouldn't let me have
metformin because my numbers "were too good."  I need the metformin to
protect my heart from the effects of insulin resistance.  I knew that
from reading here, but my invincibly ignorant internist didn't and paid
no attention when I told her.  I suggest printing some information off
from what OldAl has provided and get it to your MD so he can get
educated.

That's the ticket.

Priscilla


author: None Given

subject: Re: Pete's Progress

text:
"Pete" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Metformin's main effect is to slow down your liver from dumping extra
glucose into your blood, it has no direct effect on insulin.


author: George Holt

subject: Holt      H O T   S T O C K    R E P O R T Mon   5/24  7:00 PM  EST    DOW  3240  -43  .. Nasdaq 2453  -66 ..  PROTOCOL SYSTEMS up 29%

text:
******************************************************************
       *  George Holt  - - The HOLT Report - - Emailed Each Market Day  *
       *                                                                *
       *                     http://holtreport.com                      *
       *                                                                *
       *                      [email]                          *
       *                                                                *
       ******************************************************************

Attention   Investors .. Traders

  Check out http://holtreport.com/ (Click on Hot Stocks Report). Get ONE CLICK
access to INTRADAY and DAILY CHARTS of all the HOT STOCKS such as the ones
listed here. Also LATEST NEWS and OPTION CHAINS for each hot stock is just one
click away. The WEB PAGE is PERIODICALLY UPDATED throughout the trading day.

Chg%    Last    Change                          Open    High    Low     YTD%
-1.96%  868.15  -17.33  AMEX Cputer Tech Idx    885.48  888.14  862.62  9.0%
-1.99%  754.60  -15.32  AMEX Institution Idx    769.92  771.77  752.25  4.4%
-1.48%  1111.34 -16.73  AMEX Major Market Idx   1128.07 1134.01 1107.71 12.2%
-2.31%  506.37  -11.95  AMEX Oil Idx            518.32  521.29  504.82  16.7%
-1.32%  3240.58 -43.27  Dow J Composite Avg     3283.63 3293.36 3234.22 12.9%
-1.61%  10654.6 -174.61 Dow J Industrial Avg    10829.8 10856.4 10626.6 16.0%
-2.18%  3473.80 -77.46  Dow J Trans Avg         3550.43 3555.13 3465.22 10.3%
0.70%   327.43  2.28    Dow J Utility Avg       325.03  329.77  324.91  4.8%
-1.04%  1837.26 -19.39  NASD Banks              1859.79 1859.79 1833.63 0.0%
-2.64%  2453.66 -66.48  NASD Composite          2529.3  2529.3  2444.89 11.9%
-1.82%  2082.04 -38.56  NASD Financial Idx      2120.6  2127.11 2076.4  5.0%
-2.60%  1475.17 -39.33  NASD Industrial Idx     1518.36 1519.33 1471.22 13.1%
-0.04%  2353.39 -1.03   NASD Insurance Idx      2354.62 2377.7  2349.2  31.0%
-4.16%  991.99  -43.07  NASD Transp Idx         1036.45 1036.45 991.74  1.1%
-2.65%  1113.59 -30.33  NASD NMS Comp           1148.08 1148.22 1109.56 11.8%
-1.70%  626.05  -10.82  NYSE Composite          636.87  638.25  624.85  5.1%
-1.86%  549.36  -10.39  NYSE Finance            559.75  559.86  547.16  5.4%
-1.89%  780.37  -15.01  NYSE Industrials        795.38  798.11  779.39  4.9%
-1.88%  517.91  -9.91   NYSE Transportation     527.82  530.03  517.07  7.4%
-0.27%  469.26  -1.25   NYSE Utilities          470.51  474.22  467.47  5.2%
-1.99%  658.39  -13.37  S & P 100 Idx           671.76  673.31  655.99  9.0%
-1.78%  1306.65 -23.640 S & P 500 Idx           1330.29 1332.96 1303.46 6.3%
-1.95%  440.39  -8.75   Russel 2000 Idx         449.14  450.19  440.24  4.4%
-1.48%  1111.34 -16.73  Major Market Idx        1128.07 1134.01 1107.71 12.2%
-2.03%  643.57  -13.36  Willshire Sm Cap Idx    657.66  657.91  642.51  10.4%
-2.55%  527.49  -13.78  High Technology Idx     541.42  541.86  524.81  17.4%
-1.18%  1008.70 -12.02  Value Line Arith Idx    1020.72 1024.25 1008.01 8.7%

NYSE Actives

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
AMERICA ONLINE INC   119.75  -6.69  -5.29 126.44 118.88  25,454,900 AOL
PHILIP MORRIS COS IN  39.56  -0.31  -0.78  40.19  39.38  14,410,600 MO
CITIGROUP INC         65.38  -2.44  -3.59  66.94  64.13  11,888,800 C
A T & T CORP          58.13  -1.31  -2.21  60.19  58.13   8,723,600 T
COMPAQ COMPUTER CORP  25.00  -0.06  -0.25  25.56  24.81   9,812,600 CPQ
LUCENT TECHNOLOGIES   56.19  -1.38  -2.39  58.88  55.75   8,203,100 LU
Chase Manhattan Corp  75.88  -3.06  -3.88  77.50  75.50   5,498,600 CMB
PFIZER INC           106.00  -4.25  -3.85 110.38 105.56   6,304,800 PFE
MONSANTO CO           40.56  -3.81  -8.59  42.44  40.00   5,611,700 MTC
MERCK & CO INC        69.56  -1.75  -2.45  71.25  69.13   5,742,800 MRK

NYSE Gainers

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
LEUCADIA NATIONAL CO  20.75   0.69   3.43  21.25  20.13     309,000 LUK
CONVERSE INC           4.88   0.75  18.18   4.88   4.19     184,400 CVE
DYNEX CAPITAL INC      3.31   0.44  15.22   3.38   2.88     487,300 DX
ASIA SATELLITE TELEC  21.63   2.56  13.44  21.75  21.25      93,800 SAT
SILICON GRAPHICS INC  13.06   1.25  10.58  13.38  11.81   2,788,900 SGI
A P T SATELLITE HLDG   3.69   0.31   9.26   3.94   3.69     145,600 ATS
OLSTEN CORP            9.25   0.88  10.45   9.44   8.56     640,900 OLS
MOLECULAR BIOSYSTEMS   2.69   0.25  10.26   2.75   2.63      69,600 MB
HUNTCO INC             3.38   0.31  10.20   3.38   3.00      58,100 HCO
A K STEEL HOLDING CO  24.50   2.13   9.50  25.75  23.06   1,524,600 AKS

NYSE Losers

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
SMTEK INTERNATIONAL 36227.0  -7.13 -95.0036357.011994.0     253,200 SMK
Resortquest Internat   8.75  -6.00 -40.68   9.63   8.50   1,664,100 RZT
AMERICAN MEDICAL       8.94  -4.81 -35.00   9.13   7.81     662,400 AMZ
AVIS RENT A CAR INC   28.38  -7.00 -19.79  35.38  27.75   1,361,800 AVI
COLLINS & AIKMAN COR   5.38  -1.25 -18.87   6.63   5.38     115,900 CKC
ADVANCED COMM GROUP    9.13  -1.38 -13.10  10.94   9.94     250,400 ADG
ARTRA GROUP INC       10.06  -1.56 -13.44  11.38  10.00      84,600 ATA
INPUT OUTPUT INC       7.38  -0.94 -11.28   8.38   7.25     320,200 IO
UNIBANCO UNIAO DE BA  23.50  -2.94 -11.11  26.44  23.50     329,700 UBB
SAFEGUARD SCIENTIFIC  76.56  -8.69 -10.19  86.25  76.50   1,200,900 SFE

Nasdaq Actives

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
DELL COMPUTER CORP    36.09  -1.22  -3.27  37.38  35.63  38,636,700 DELL
HAUPPAGE DIGITAL INC  31.88   4.06  14.61  38.13  21.38  22,858,200 HAUP
MICROSOFT CORP        76.75  -0.81  -1.05  77.88  76.06  18,350,300 MSFT
INTEL CORP            55.63  -1.38  -2.41  57.25  55.50  16,987,100 INTC
CISCO SYSTEMS INC    109.00  -4.25  -3.75 113.88 108.00  12,776,700 CSCO
ORACLE CORP           24.75  -1.00  -3.88  26.44  24.56  12,307,800 ORCL
APPLIED MATERIALS IN  56.13  -3.44  -5.77  58.81  55.19   9,391,000 AMAT
CUSTOMTRACKS CORP     75.50  14.56  23.90  90.00  64.00   8,769,300 CUST
E TRADE GROUP INC     50.00  -3.06  -5.77  54.00  47.50   8,428,400 EGRP
MCI WORLDCOM INC      83.25  -1.63  -1.91  86.13  82.88   8,265,600 WCOM

Nasdaq Gainers

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
D X P ENTERPRISES IN   5.00   1.50  42.86   5.00   5.00         400 DXPE
MARCAM SOLUTIONS       3.72   0.97  35.23   4.00   2.75     194,900 MRCM
STRATEGIC DIAGNOSTIC   3.63   0.88  31.82   3.75   3.19     552,300 SDIX
PROTOCOL SYSTEMS INC   8.75   2.00  29.63  10.31   8.50   1,497,300 PCOL
NEW BRUNSWICK SCI CO   9.13   2.13  30.36   9.75   7.75     154,500 NBSC
TEXAS MICRO INC        6.13   1.25  25.64   6.53   6.06     993,100 TEXM
DIGITAL LIGHTWAVE IN   6.88   1.50  27.91   7.44   5.50   1,785,900 DIGL
AXIOHM TRANSACTION S   7.50   1.44  23.71   7.63   6.00       1,000 AXHM
CUSTOMTRACKS CORP     75.50  14.56  23.90  90.00  64.00   8,769,300 CUST
SYNTEL INC            11.88   1.88  18.75  12.50  10.50     550,200 SYNT

Nasdaq Losers

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
MOTORCAR PARTS & ACC   7.19  -3.81 -34.66  10.38   6.81     396,500 MPAA
MANHATTAN ASSOCIATES  10.88  -4.50 -29.27  15.38  10.44     408,600 MANH
ONESOURCE INFORMATIO   9.38  -2.13 -18.48  11.63   9.63     439,300 ONES
PCORDER.COM INC       33.00  -8.50 -20.48  43.13  32.50     349,800 PCOR
LAUNCH MEDIA INC      17.13  -4.88 -22.16  21.75  16.38     333,500 LAUN
CAIS INTERNET INC     15.06  -3.94 -20.72  19.13  14.50   1,340,700 CAIS
Pilot Network Servic  10.19  -2.56 -20.10  12.75  10.13     561,000 PILT
CONCENTRIC NETWORK C  30.25  -6.75 -18.24  38.50  29.19   1,917,300 CNCX
THESTREET.COM         33.00  -7.31 -18.14  40.13  32.25     905,800 TSCM
Autoweb.com Inc       14.63  -3.19 -17.89  17.88  14.39     754,900 AWEB

AMEX Actives

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
S&P DEP RCPTS/SPDRS  130.81  -2.53  -1.90 133.84 130.39   7,477,900 SPY
NASDAQ 100 SHARES    102.44  -3.31  -3.13 106.13 102.38   4,457,900 QQQ
HASBRO INC            29.69   0.25   0.85  30.75  29.63   1,944,600 HAS
DIAMONDS TRUST SER 1 106.50  -1.75  -1.62 108.69 106.16   1,164,900 DIA
PAXSON COMM CORP CL   13.63   1.06   8.46  13.94  12.00     949,800 PAX
TECHNOLOGY SELECT SE  36.67  -0.89  -2.37  37.75  36.64     699,100 XLK
KEANE INC             31.88   1.25   4.08  32.44  31.13     784,300 KEA
NABORS INDUSTRIES IN  18.88  -0.69  -3.51  20.25  18.81     510,600 NBR
JWGENESIS FINANCIAL   19.25   2.63  15.79  19.88  17.50     743,000 JWG
TRANS WORLD AIRLINES   5.25  -0.06  -1.18   5.44   5.19     896,400 TWA

AMEX Gainers

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
VERSAR INC             2.50   0.50  25.00   2.50   2.13      12,900 VSR
THERMORETEC CORP       3.75   0.69  22.45   3.75   3.25      30,300 THN
IPC Information Syst  58.00   9.50  19.59  61.75  50.00      57,200 IPI
HUNGARIAN TEL &CABLE   5.88   0.94  18.99   6.00   5.00      28,000 HTC
BALANCED CARE CORP     2.50   0.38  17.65   2.63   2.31     124,700 BAL
JWGENESIS FINANCIAL   19.25   2.63  15.79  19.88  17.50     743,000 JWG
Industrial Data Syst  10.50   1.13  12.00  10.75   9.63      18,500 IDS
TREX MEDICAL CORP      5.88   0.63  11.90   6.00   5.44      61,700 TXM
DRIVER HARRIS CO       3.13   0.31  11.11   3.13   2.88       1,000 DRH
THERMO TERRATECH INC   5.63   0.50   9.76   5.75   5.25      12,200 TTT

AMEX Losers

Company Name          Last  Change  %Chg   High    Low     Volume   Symb
CREATIVE COMPUTR APP   3.13  -0.38 -10.71   3.69   2.75      44,300 CAP/EC
SELFCARE INC           3.00  -0.38 -11.11   3.25   2.88      92,300 SLF
SCANDINAVIA INC CAYM  21.50  -2.50 -10.42  23.88  21.00       8,400 SCF
ADVANCED MAGNETICS I   3.50  -0.38  -9.68   4.13   3.50      21,000 AVM
E X X INC              2.94  -0.31  -9.62   3.13   2.94       1,600 EXX/A
WEBS-MALAYSIA-BENCHM   5.31  -0.56  -9.57   5.63   5.31     167,900 EWM
JOULE INC              2.50  -0.25  -9.09   2.63   2.50      18,900 JOL
EMULTEK                6.06  -0.56  -8.49   6.69   5.81      35,200 EMU
JACLYN INC             2.75  -0.25  -8.33   2.81   2.75       1,800 JLN
BENTLEY PHARM INC      2.75  -0.31 -10.20   3.13   2.75      49,300 BNT


author: The Black Adder

subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
"Poop Dogg" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Google "dry sex" and "africa"

Apparently quite a few.. um "quaint" nigger sexual practices are brutally
efficient HIV vectors. Also, prostitution, polygamy, sexual slavery, and
rape are prevalent over there to a degree that you will never hear mentioned
in the western media. Wouldn't want people to think the niggers were
actually better off under apartheid & european colonialism, now would we? :)

- BA


author: William J. Wolfe

subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
"The Black Adder" <[email]> wrote in message news:<5fueb.10984$[email]>...

We are supposed to believe the politically correct view that niggers
are gentle peace loving little apes living in harmony with nature and
the envionment. That is the official version of the lives of the
australis koonus subhuman species before White Humans colonised
Australia.

Any Human who is brave enough to see the niggerfuxated suburb of
Redfern in Sydney will se the lie behind the myth. Also, anybody who
has seen a pack of koonii in a park drinking cheap wine and generally
making complete arseholes of themselves as they brawl and fight for
the last bottle or a quick koonii mating act with one of the koonii
females will know tha black apes have no sense of decency or hygiene.


author: Hayek

subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
Randy Jabsco wrote:

And then it turned out that the Stupid Nigga
Mbeki, was much smarter than all of them Political
White Farts together.

In a few years it will turn out that there is no
hiv, and that it was all a mirage caused by bad
science.

Just like in Japan, 1958-1973, with the Smon
fiasco....
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/besmon.htm

Hayek.


author: GMCarter

subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
On 2 Oct 2003 18:02:42 -0700, [email] (William J. Wolfe)
wrote:

snip...

LOL...what does this little screed say about caucasians? White people
with that kind of attitude sound pretty low on the evolutionary
order....

sometimes I think this species is too ridiculous and silly to persist.

		George M. Carter


subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
Hayek <[email]> wrote in message news:<3f7d45fe$0$420$[email]>...

In a few years there will be no more niggers, and that will be a great
day for White Humans, NIGGER. When the last nigger and the last
homosexual dies, that will be the end of the AIDS epidemic. The result
can only be a healthier and wealthier White World.


subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
William J. Wolfe wrote:

So did you grasp heliocentricity ?

Hayek.


author: Death

subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
The US will have to export niggas to Africa to repopulate that shit hole.

"William J. Wolfe" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<3f7d45fe$0$420$[email]>...


subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
William J. Wolfe wrote:

With all them lawsuits like in the end of this story ?
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/besmon.htm

The White Straight world will be bankrupt, Brother
! And nothing will cure your sick mind !

Hayek.


subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
Hayek <[email]> wrote in message news:<3f7ce5ed$0$14127$[email]>...

Alright, you stupid tulip farmer, what the fuck does the sun being the
centre of anything have to do with the issue of discussion?


subject: Re: South African AIDS rate?

text:
William J. Wolfe wrote:

So you looked that one up.

Now go and lookup "epicycles".

Hint : use also "galileo" and "planets"

And "planet" is the Greek word for "wanderer".

Hayek.


author: Paige

subject: Re: Sleepy Teens Should Start School late?

text:
[email] wrote:

I disagree - I'm 19 now and a few years ago even though I went to bed
reasonably early it was still a struggle to get up in the morning to
walk to school - now I'm older and go to bed a lot later but find it
easy to get up early if I have to. I think there probably is a stage
during which you really do need the sleep... due to still growing and
stuff, however by the time you are working you can probably cope with
less again.


author: Alberto

text:
Paige wrote:

I don't buy that being a teenager means one needs to sleep a lot. I
myself never slept more than six hours a day, even when I was a kid.

Alberto.


author: Robert P. Murray

subject: 32MB and 16MB NEW Samsung SIMMs (new post)

text:
(New Post - Please read and disregard previous post)

For Sale:
^^^^^^^^

	16MB (4x36) and 32MB (8x36), 72pin, built in parity, 70ns
BRAND NEW Samsung SIMMs (gold contacts, etc.).  Sealed from factory
- tested upon arrival at dealers for perfection, and resealed (just like
you'd get them from anywhere else new).

	PRICES:

	(1) 16MB SIMM = $520/each
	(1) 32MB SIMM = $1055/each

- DISCOUNTS AVAILABLE ON PURCHASES OF MORE THAN ONE AT A TIME
(mix or match - I don't care).  Email me for details (BTW - I'll let
two 16's go for $1025 - that's a FAQ) and a custom quote.

- Prices >>Include<< 2nd Day Air delivery with prepayment. (Unless
you are outside the US - where shipping might become cost
prohibitive and I might have to ask you to swallow the difference
which is only fair.)

- Prices firm.  Will entertain the thought of trades - but probably
not as I have to pay for them outright before I will have them in my
hands.  I don't need haggler's unless you are interested in buying a
lot at a time whence I will consider your offer.  Please don't waste
my time with silly responses like "My brother in law sold me 4 used 1MB
80ns 30pin SIMMs for $100 - I'll give you the same $/MB for yours".
If you are serious, the cost shouldn't be an issue as you've shopped
around and checked out the prices beforehand.

- These are real - and I will provide references.  I've already sold
2 and have several people who have stated they are very serious
about buying them at my old (incorrect/higher) prices.

- If a LOT of them get sold - I will send you a check (no b.s.) for
the difference in prices that I can get them for (but I'll have to
sell a few hundred MB probably - the source simply state "A lot of
them").  I will make a constant % or 2 profit and will refund you
the difference (much like a group buy).

- Can provide net references if specially requested.  Will also give
out my home phone number and complete address via email if requested
to verify I exist (I've lived here 16 years - I'm not disappearing).

- Serious buyers will realize that the prices are VERY fair.  I've
only had one official complaint stating they got a better deal
individuall - but I bet that individual took a loss selling them for
less than I am.  These should be cheaper prices than you can get (by
quite a few $$ if not $$$) anywhere in the world - including mail
order places.  Insight Computers (the only people who HAD some 32's
when I last checked) were selling them for $1399 each (and they
didn't know what brand they were even - "It changes from week to
week - order to order").  Other prices are well over $1500 elsewhere
in July's Computer Shopper.  The 16's should be cheaper than
anywhere else also.  If you can provide a WRITTEN advertisement for
these same SIMMs (generics dont' count - but I doubt you'd get them
for less as well) new, I'll see what I can do, though I don't think I'll
get many takers.

- I've already got an overwhelming response from a number of people
stating that they were VERY INTERESTED at my old prices (a % or 2
higher).  Availability wasn't supposed to be an issue - but may be
in the end.  If you are serious - don't hang around for a week.

Please disregard the last post I had adveritsing my Samsung SIMMs
for sale.  This post is the non-errored version (hopefully... :) ).
My personal apologies to all the people who I emailed quotes to.
I'm BEATING MY OWN PRICE!  This actually has the same margin of
profit for me - I messed up the original estimate of my cost though.
The person with a confirmed order will be mailed a refund if he has
already sent his MO to me for the difference in cost.

						- Bob TMS Murray -
					      [email]


author: Erle Macdonald

subject: Re: 32MB and 16MB NEW Samsung SIMMs (new post)

text:
I need an additional source {or 1 megs simms1X9 3chip).  I currently purchase
120,000+ a month for current customers.  If you have a good contact for the 1
megs simms  would like a call at 214-869-2741 my email is [email]
ask for erle


author: Myer Lansky

subject: Answers to Oct, 2002 patent bar exam

text:
AM1 E
AM2 C
AM3 E
AM4 E
AM5 C
AM6 E
AM7 B
AM8 B
AM9 B
AM10 D
AM11 E
AM12 E
AM13 A
AM14 E
AM15 D
AM16 E
AM17 C
AM18 E
AM19 A
AM20 E
AM21 D
AM22 E
AM23 C
AM24 C
AM25 B
AM26 E
AM27 B
AM28 C
AM29 C
AM30 C
AM31 E
AM32 A
AM33 C
AM34 A
AM35 C
AM36 A
AM37 C
AM38 D
AM39 E
AM40 C
AM41 A
AM42 A
AM43 A
AM44 D
AM45 C
AM46 D
AM47 A
AM48 E
AM49 E
AM50 A
PM1 D
PM2 B
PM3 E
PM4 E
PM5 B
PM6 E
PM7 B
PM8 B
PM9 A
PM10 B
PM11 E
PM12 A
PM13 A
PM14 D
PM15 A
PM16 C
PM17 D
PM18 C
PM19 A
PM20 B
PM21 B
PM22 E
PM23 C
PM24 D
PM25 D
PM26 B
PM27 C
PM28 E
PM29 E
PM30 D
PM31 B
PM32 A
PM33 D
PM34 C/D
PM35 C
PM36 E
PM37 D
PM38 C
PM39 A
PM40 C
PM41 E
PM42 D
PM43 D
PM44 C
PM45 D
PM46 D
PM47 E
PM48 B
PM49 A
PM50 D


author: Rusty Mase

subject: Re: Answers to Oct, 2002 patent bar exam

text:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:25:22 -0500, "Myer Lansky" <[email]>
wrote:

Is there a link somewhere to the questions?  It might interest a
layperson to see what was involved.

Rusty Mase


author: Paul Bronshteyn

text:
I have checked PTO web site. They haven't posted questions and answers yet.
Is your sourse reliable? I hope it is. Because I passed with the score 90
from 100. Soon I will be able to sign as patent agent #.... Does anybody
have any advice how to find employment in the IP field.
Paul Bronshteyn

"Myer Lansky" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Alun Palmer

text:
Rusty Mase <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

I don't have the exact URLs, but you will find the recent exams and their
answers somewhere at wwww.uspto.gov, and most others back to 1994 on the
website of Franklin Pierce Law School.

Alun Palmer, US Patent Agent


text:
The questions will be available in early December.

"Rusty Mase" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


text:
My source is the average answer of about 30 people who took test.  It's from
the yahoo group patentbar.com.

"Paul Bronshteyn" <[email]> wrote in message
news:SFTA9.9567$[email]...
yet.


text:
I have never heard about such group. Thanks for telling us.
Paul Bronshteyn

"Myer Lansky" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
from
90


author: Brent K. Presley

subject: Items for Sale

text:
I have the following for sale to the highest bidder:

3COM 3c595-TX 10/100 Mbs Fast Etherlink Card (RJ-45 Only)
MS Mastering Internet Development w/ ActiveX (CD)
Star Wars Dark Forces (CD)
Wing Commander III (CD)
US Navy Fighers w/ US Marine Fighters Add-on pack (CD)

please reply to [email]


author: [redacted]

subject: Laptop InkJet printer BEST OFFER!!!

text:
this is a Inkjet laptop printer
black and white
battery opperated or plug in
single sheet feed
BETS OFFER
[email]

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet


author: Fred

subject: bark beetle-resistant Christmas trees ???

text:
In a mountain area subject to death of pine trees by drought and pine
bark beetle infestations, my family has a Choose-and-Cut Christmas Tree
farm.  It provides some retirement income -- enough to pay the property
taxes, and maybe the utilities -- definitely not enough to make a living
off of.

Some of the Christmas trees are dying of a bark beetle -- not the same
ones that infect the pine trees.  In the area, people are urged to
replace dead Ponderosa pines with incense cedars, sequoia (giant
redwood) trees, etc., to preserve the forest habitat (landscaping).
However, we do not sell many of these as Christmas trees.  We sell red
fir (silver tip), white fir, balsam fir, and noble fir.  The "fir bark
beetles" eat red fir (silver tip), white fir, balsam fir, and noble
fir.  (gasp!)

Is there any Christmas tree species (variety, cultivar) that is
resistant to the "fir bark beetle" -- I need to replant, and do NOT want
to provide a continuing smorgasbord for the benefit of the "fir bark
beetles."

My county extension agent says the only thing to do is to water the fir
trees until they are cut, not for just the startup 5-6 years of the
15-20 years needed to grow a marketable tree.  A well-watered tree is
supposed to be able to resist the infestation of "fir bark beetles" by
flooding each female with sap when she tries to drill her way under the
bark.  Naturally, water is hard to come by, especially in a drought
year.

Fred


author: JeB

subject: Re: bark beetle-resistant Christmas trees ???

text:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:45:21 -0500, Fred <[email]> wrote:

Not an answer to your question ... but i read something a few years back
about some guy in Oregon giving up the the tree sales ... letting the
trees grow ... and planting mushrooms. Made a lot more money with a lot
less work.


author: Halcitron

text:
I think you answered your question. Water is the key. If you don't have water,
then logic dictates, that you should not plant trees, the beetles are feeding
on and breeding in. Best bet is to plant your crop, in a small flat area, where
you can irrigate, rather than waiting for nature to provide water.

my two cents

:/

caveat lector

Halcitron                     misc.survivalism
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.


author: Larry Scholnick

subject: Why is Decker Canyon Road a CA State Highway?

text:
CA-23 is defined in 3 separate segments from south to north:

(a) Route 23 is from Route 1 near Aliso Canyon to Route 101,
(b) Route 101 in Thousand Oaks to Route 118,
(3) Route 118 to Route 126 near Fillmore.

This question deals only with the routing of CA-23 in the first
segment (a).

Let me first describe the route.  CA-23 begins at a remote non-
signalized intersection along CA 1/Pacific Coast Highway, about 6
miles west of the heart of Malibu, not far from the western end of Los
Angeles County.  The road, Decker Canyon Road (often signed as just
Decker Road), is a narrow, twisty road with one lane in each direction
and no passing.  The road is marked as Not Recommended for Trucks.
After nearly 5 miles of steady ascent from the coast, Decker Canyon
Road ends at Mulholland Highway.  CA-23 continues northeast for 2
miles as Mulholland Highway.  Road conditions along this stretch of
Mulholland Highway are similar to those of Decker Canyon Road except
that there is a posted speed limit of 25 for part of this stretch and
Mulholland Highway is relatively flat (still twisty, but little change
in elevation).  Then, as Mulholland Highway turns east, CA 23 proceeds
north along Westlake Blvd.  Road conditions continue much the same as
the road descends into the Conejo Valley.  Just as Westlake Blvd
crosses into Ventura County, the speed limit finally increases to 30
MPH.  Finally, Westlake Blvd enters the city of Thousand Oaks, where
it becomes a multilane divided suburban boulevard with a speed limit
of 45 MPH.  As Westlake Blvd approaches US-101/Ventura Freeway, the
speed limit drops to 40 MPH.  CA 23 joins US-101 north for 2 miles
before splitting off as a freeway toward Moorpark (the 2nd defined
segment).  Bing Maps allows 21 minutes for the 10 miles from CA-1/
Pacific Coast Highway to the Thousand Oaks city limits, which is an
average speed of about 28½ MPH.

Although Decker/Mulholland/Westlake may be fun to drive in a sporty
car, there is no good reason for it to still be a state highway.  When
originally built during the Depression-era it was the only road that
crossed the Santa Monica Mountains for miles, but it has outlived its
usefulness.

What do I propose instead?  Caltrans and L.A. County Road Dept. should
swap roads; L.A. should take over Decker/Mulholland/Westlake and
Caltrans should take over what is currently designated as L.A. County
N-9, Kanan Road/Kanan-Dume Road; the N-9 designation should be
retired.

Kanan-Dume Road begins at a signalized intersection with CA-1/Pacific
Coast Highway in the heart of Malibu.  The southern half of the 12½
mile road, Kanan-Dume Road, rises from the coast with gentle sweeping
curves and a speed limit of 50 MPH.  As the road widens to 2 lanes in
each direction, the speed limit increases to 55 MPH.  At Mulholland
Highway the road name changes to Kanan Road and the road begins its
descent into the Conejo Valley.  There are 3 pairs of tunnels
(separate tunnels for northbound vs. southbound traffic); one near the
top of the Kanan Dume Road segment and two near the top of the Kanan
Road segment.  The speed limit drops to 35 MPH as the road approaches
US-101/Ventura Freeway in the city of Agoura Hills.  Bing Maps allows
16 minutes for the 12.4 miles from the coast to the freeway, which is
an average speed of about 46 MPH.


author: jgar the jorrible

subject: Re: Why is Decker Canyon Road a CA State Highway?

text:
On Aug 24, 12:23 pm, "Paul D. DeRocco" <[email]> wrote:

My brother (who lives in Nevada) told me there was a dirt road out in
the middle of the desert, and a highway worker noticed a bunch of cars
turning on to it.  So they did a study, and found lots of cars, and
allocated money for this road that went out in the middle of nowhere.
Well, you can imagine what was out in the middle of nowhere in
Nevada.  I never could tell if he was joking.

There is a Ron Fellows performance driving school in Pahrump, included
if you buy a ZR1.

jg


text:
On Aug 23, 3:57 pm, Steve Sobol <[email]> wrote:

Just take a look at the southern end of Google Maps Street View,
There's no center line from the south end of the road beginning at the
3-way stop sign with CA-58.

Interestingly there's no sign saying that CA-229 is not recommended
for big rigs, perhaps because there is such a sign on CA-58 east of
US-101 (suggesting CA-46 and CA-166 as alternate routes).

This leaves the question as to why CA-229 is a state highway.  A far
more reasonable road, La Panza Road would serve the same purpose, as a
connector between CA-58 and CA-41 in this area.


author: Jimmy

text:
Larry Scholnick <[email]> wrote:

Another option would be to keep it as a state-maintained highway, but
remove the number from signs and maps to reduce traffic.

Jimmy


text:
On Aug 20, 8:19 pm, Mark F <[email]> wrote:

I did that then too, in my '63 Vette.  After a short ways, I decided
it was a bit too much fun and needed to get back to Santa Barbara, so
I turned around, and it started running real bad.  I got out and took
a gander - it seems I must've hit a rock, which perfectly folded shut
the end of one of my exhaust pipes, and broke the exhaust hanger.  I
unfolded the end with some pliers, and went on my way, occasionally
dragging the pipe on the ground.

jg


text:
On Aug 24, 10:06 am, Ralph Herman <[email]> wrote:

The problem is that there are maps that only show numbered highways,
and there are people who assume that numbered routes are better roads
than unnumbered roads.  Someone heading for Malibu might pick CA-23 as
their route and might spend the next half hour terrified at every
turn.  That's what would be prevented by moving CA-23 to Kanan/Kanan-
Dume.


author: DandyDan

text:
On Aug 22, 7:46 pm, [email] (Michael Moroney)
wrote:

Presuming gravel roads is what is meant, Nebraska still has 4 gravel
roads: the eastern portion of NE 18, NE 67 between NE 2 and US 34, NE
65 from Pawnee City to the Kansas border and S-67C, a spur road off of
the aforementioned segment of NE 65.   I'm not sure why any of those
roads are still in the system.   I believe Minnesota still has a
portion of MN 74 still gravel.


text:
On Aug 20, 8:19 pm, Mark F <[email]> wrote:

I believe that all of the route outside of the section in the city of
Thousand Oaks has a double yellow line separating NB and SB traffic.
I don't recall a single passing opportunity on that entire stretch.


text:
On Aug 23, 11:06 am, "Paul D. DeRocco" <[email]> wrote:
Indeed, the northern part of CA-39 is defined as:

(c) Whittier Boulevard in La Habra to Route 2 via ... (a long series
of roads and exceptions due to portions having been returned to the
cities of Azusa and Covina).


text:
On Aug 21, 8:03 pm, "Paul D. DeRocco" <[email]> wrote:

That only solves the problem of the lower third (Decker) of the road;
that still leaves the middle third (Mulholland) and the upper third
(Westlake).


text:
On Aug 20, 9:28 pm, Ralph Herman <[email]> wrote:

I would not expect L.A county to abandon the road; instead I would
expect that they would give it just the maintenance that a road of its
size and traffic load would deserve.  I'm sure that residents would be
happy to have all the traffic that state highway status brings removed
from their road.


text:
On Aug 21, 10:13 am, Steve Sobol <[email]> wrote:
I knew about that unpaved section.  Are there any other sections like
CA-229/Webster Road which is so narrow that they don't have a center
line on the portion from the town of Creston to CA-58/Calf Canyon
Highway?  (This is east of Atascadero in San Luis Obispo county.)


author: Paul D. DeRocco

text:
<snip>

Kanan/Kanan Dume is the fastest road across the SM Mountains west of
Sepulveda Blvd., and would make a good choice for a state highway. That
said, if you ever want to cross the mountains into or out of Westlake
Village, the south part of Decker Canyon Rd. has an alternative: Encinal
Canyon Rd. It's a mile or so longer, but a much faster road, because the
switchbacks are much larger in radius. So they might also consider moving 23
on that side of the mountains over to that road.


author: Mark F

text:
Larry Scholnick <[email]> wrote:

I remember taking this road back in the 1970s, and I was surprized at
how narrow and unimproved it was for a state route.  At the time, it had
no center line, and I think it may have been too narrow for two way
traffic in places.  I don't know if it has since been updated.


author: John David Galt

text:
Jimmy wrote:

California law doesn't allow that practice.  Where a number has been removed
it is either the work of local vandals (as on CA-35 between CA-9 and CA-17),
or the state has actually "decommissioned" the highway (giving it back to
local authorities) and hasn't designated a replacement route yet.


author: Ralph Herman

text:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:35:17 -0700, Jimmy wrote
(in article
<[email]>):

My personal observation is that SR 23/Decker Canyon Road traffic is just
local residents.  Removing the state shields would not change the traffic
count, IMO.

Ralph


text:
Larry Scholnick wrote:

CA-236 north of Big Basin State Park has several sections like that.


author: Cameron Kaiser

text:
Larry Scholnick <[email]> writes:

CA 168 through the Westgard Pass, although it's short and has a good reason
to be (hunkered down in a gorge).


text:
Try driving CA-4 over the Sierra Nevada. Pretty much everything east of
CA-207 is like that, for almost 30 miles.


author: Steve Sobol

text:
In article <30803551-cc5c-4895-87e8-719e40c497b8
@q16g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, [email] says...

I wouldn't know. I didn't even realize CA-58 went that far west, and
I've never heard of CA-229 until now.


text:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:03:38 -0700, Paul D. DeRocco wrote
(in article <[email]>):

Agree completely, Paul.

Caltrans does what it needs to keep Decker Canyon passable, but not much
more.  Why would Caltrans even want to move to another pass just to slap up
some state highway shields?  What's in it for them?


text:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:19:58 -0700, Mark F wrote
(in article <[email]>):

Not recommended for cars, either.  Like mine.  I drove it once... that was
enough for me.

My guess is that because some houses and ranches have their only driveway
access on CA 23, the state cannot abandon it or turn it over to the counties.
 LA and Ventura counties would not want to take on the expense of maintaining
and improving it.

Ralph


text:
Encinal Canyon is an easier to maintain road than the southern part of
Decker Canyon.

There's also a certain innate conservatism in the road system. Once there is
a state highway going over the mountains in that area, they're not likely to
want to abandon it completely, without an alternative. Even today, CA-39 is
still considered to include its northernmost four miles which have been
closed to traffic for over thirty years.


text:
Ralph Herman wrote:

That's not a reason for the state to keep it.  Indeed, here in Sacramento,
part of CA-160 was returned to the city because its state highway status
*prevented* driveways where the city wanted them (near a new Home Depot).

They wouldn't have to.  They could give it to the residents as a private road
if there's no other reason to keep it open.


text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

California still has an unpaved dirt road that has a state highway
number assigned to it. By comparison, CA-23 sounds completely modern :)


text:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:33:19 -0700, John David Galt wrote
(in article <i4puqn$qq$[email]>):

Sacramento wanted to take over the maintenance.  I would guess if the
counties wanted to take over ownership of Decker Canyon Road, Caltrans would
let them in a heartbeat.

I California, I doubt any agency can abandon a road and "privatize" it
without  the consent of all the property owners.  I know I wouldn't want to
take on the expense of maintaining Decker Canyoon Road.


author: Patrick Scheible

text:
Steve Sobol <[email]> writes:

Do tell.

-- Patrick


author: The Real Bev

text:
On 08/22/10 09:33, Ralph Herman wrote:

Perhaps charge admission -- my grandson informs me that it's an
excellent road-race road.


author: Michael Moroney

text:
Patrick Scheible <[email]> writes:

What other states have dirt roads on their state highway system, and what
are the dirt state highways?
(exclusing states like Kentucky where every cowpath is a state highway)


text:
It's CA-173. From the southern end of Hesperia, you can see the dirt
road heading up the side of the mountain. It's not paved, no guardrails,
nothing. CA-173 heads out of the Hesperia foothills, up into Lake
Arrowhead.

"California 173 connects California 138 south of Hesperia with
California 18 south of Lake Arrowhead. The center portion of the route
is the only remaining unpaved state highway in California."

http://www.aaroads.com/california/ca-173.html


text:
Nevada seems to assign state route numbers to an awful lot of rural roads. I
found one dirt road--actually, it seemed like well-graded clay--just east of
Pyramid Lake, NV-445 through Flanigan. It becomes asphalt as soon as you hit
the CA border. I suspect there are others out in the desert.


text:
In article <i4sgcs$ohd$[email]>, [email]
says...

Just to clarify: California only has the one dirt highway...


author: Oscar Voss

text:
"Michael Moroney" <[email]> wrote in message
news:i4sgcs$ohd$[email]...

(Including gravel roads, I assume)

Virginia has one (part of VA 91).  Utah has at least one.  Alaska has
several (parts of AK 2, AK 5, AK 6, AK 8, AK 10, and AK 11, not to mention
many state-maintained unnumbered highways).

Hawaii has some significant dirt roads, but when it reorganized the route
system in 1968, Hawaii DOT took care to fob off all the dirt roads on the
counties.


text:
Steve Sobol <[email]> writes:

Thanks!

-- Patrick


author: Avrum Lapin

subject: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
Grandpa (MFJ) offers to help grand-daughter (not his dependent or
exemption) pay off part of loan to attend trade school.

Grandpa reads Pub 17 and concludes that he has no place to deduct nor
any credit to take.  Just feels good.

Is Grandpa's conclusion right?


subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
On Aug 27, 9:46ï¿½pm, Avrum Lapin <[email]> wrote:

Grandpa is a nice guy.

If you have other kids in college or who will be in college during
this period, and are eligible for any financial aid, it might be
better for Grandpa to wait until all the kids are out of school.
Otherwise, depending on your situation and the exact timing, any money
Grandpa gives you will count as income for FA purposes, and this could
cost you significant FA money.


subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
On Aug 30, 2:42ï¿½pm, Mark Bole <[email]> wrote:

It's not really the tail wagging the dog, just smart financial
planning at a multi-generational level. If the family dynamic is such
that the gift might not be offered later, this of course has to be
taken into consideration.

This is how the financial aid system works. Virtually all income -
including gifts, 401k/IRA contributions, some other pre-tax benefits
-  are counted as income available to pay for college. And it takes
surprisingly little income to hit the 47% bracket, where 47 cents of
every dollar is considered available for college. That $10,000 gift
could easily cost the family $4700 in FA.

Grandpa is trying to find a way to get a tax advantage from the gift.
If he doesn't fully analyze the situation, he could wind up paying a
47% "tax" instead.


author: Bill Brown

subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
On Aug 27, 9:46ï¿½pm, Avrum Lapin <[email]> wrote:

Yes.

If grandpa's gifts to his grandaughter, including paying off the
student loan, exceed $13,000 in 2009, he also has to file a gift tax
return.


author: Mark Bole

subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
way222 wrote:

That sounds like a "tail wagging the dog" situation.  Should one pass up
a $10,000 certain gift against a chance to receive $5,000 in financial
aid?  Or try to defer a gift to a future date when it may no longer be
offered?

Maybe Grandpa wishes to help this specific granddaughter for his own
reasons.  How would his gift to a granddaughter impact the parent's
income for financial aid purposes related to other children?

-Mark Bole


subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
way222 wrote:

Maybe it's changed, but when I was filling out FAFSA forms, they wanted
to know my income and my child's income, but they did not ask about the
income or assets of the other children.

-Mark Bole


author: paulthomascpa

subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
"Bill Brown" <[email]> wrote

Not if he pays the tuition directly to the school.


subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
In article <h7ghpl$310$[email]>,
 Mark Bole <[email]> wrote:

Grandpa provides more info:

a) the total tuition is less than the amount which would require a gift
tax filing. .

b) the help is being offered as a reward for "shaping up and flying
right".  The grandchild is an adult who has lived away from home since
she was 16

c) the next grandchild is only 4 years old and has prosperous parents.

Many thanks for the comments.  They have been useful even if not helpful
in this specific case


author: HLunsford

subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
paulthomascpa wrote:
The loan was already in place.

ChEAr$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA


subject: Re: Grandpa helps with tuition

text:
Avrum Lapin wrote:

Helpful is in the eye of the beholder. You got some helpful information
regarding the gift tax and special rules for paying education-related
expenses of a non-dependent.

More importantly, your original question about Grandpa's Pub 17
encounter was answered.

For more help, more information would help.  Who is the borrower, who is
the lender, where did the proceeds go, and who pays the interest, of the
loan that Grandpa proposes to pay off with his gift (which may in fact
have strings attached)?

-Mark Bole


author: Yi Jin

subject: 14.4K PCMCIA modems for sale

text:
14.4K PCMCIA modems for sale. All new, shrinkwraped.

Pratical Peripheral, Inc. (PPI). 14.4K data/14.4K fax. V.32bis,V.42bis, etc.
upto 115200 bps DTE (most other 14.4K modems only goes upto 57.6K). 16550UART.
QuickLink II WIn/DOS data and fax software. LIFETIME warranty. $160 plus
shipping.

Megahertz XJ1144 (XJACK), similar to above, but upto 57.6K only. However, the
XJACK on the card is pretty nice -- you don't need to carry a seperate cable
like other PCMCIA modems do. Softwares are WPCOM, EXpress fax, ECLipse fax.
5 year warranty. $170 plus shipping.

I also have a Megahertz Ethernet PCMCIA card (10Base-T) for sale for $150
plus shipping.

All are brand new, shrinkwraped.

Yi


author: Jan Drew

subject: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
http://www.h1n1vaccinerisks.org/uncategorized/the-dangers-of-vaccines-part-1-mmr-hpv-autism-gardasil-swine-flu-h1n1thimerosal/

The Dangers of Vaccines – Part 1 (MMR HPV Autism Gardasil Swine Flu
H1N1Thimerosal)


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
http://www.h1n1vaccinerisks.org/uncategorized/the-dangers-of-vaccines...

The Dangers of Vaccines – Part 1 (MMR HPV Autism Gardasil Swine Flu
H1N1Thimerosal)


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeanAuZK_DY&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGQfj-6xn38&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Vj0EX_STU&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glBWVeTutJk&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcRDOR6DBPY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVe7nBmlBWk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1AaoaOWc9s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K79PodLft8&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ejt9I6z3jw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDR-UJYms6w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5QerEf3-o0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFuCjE1Q-o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1K74Tnrrok&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7h-DPr_x2w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Fdgj-Sisg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELx2eX_kM-w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-anZr096cQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvRbvdHFVQ0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMh5EaeLFMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-nkD5LSIg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaokq8v9JPI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCBlxqmOMKM&feature=related


author: Mark STANLEY Probert

subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
On Sep 14, 12:47 am, "Peter B" <.@.> wrote:

DUMB luck, emphasis on DUMB.


author: carole

subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
On Sep 14, 12:00 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:

Yes but a lot of these sources have ties to the pharmaceutical
industry.
Do you want to go through them one by one, and rule out those with
vested interests?


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
On Sep 15, 5:52 pm, "Peter B" <.@.> wrote:

She scared the little germ-bugs away by looking at them.


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
On Sep 14, 1:51 am, Jan Drew <[email]> wrote:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeanAuZK_DY&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGQfj-6xn38&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Vj0EX_STU&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glBWVeTutJk&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcRDOR6DBPY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVe7nBmlBWk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1AaoaOWc9s&feature=related

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K79PodLft8&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ejt9I6z3jw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDR-UJYms6w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5QerEf3-o0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFuCjE1Q-o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1K74Tnrrok&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7h-DPr_x2w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Fdgj-Sisg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELx2eX_kM-w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-anZr096cQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvRbvdHFVQ0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMh5EaeLFMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-nkD5LSIg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaokq8v9JPI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCBlxqmOMKM&feature=related


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
On Sep 16, 12:56 am, Jan Drew <[email]> wrote:

A degree from YouBOOB Community College.'

A BS (Basicly Stupid).


author: Peter B

subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
"Jan Drew" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

You survived 3/4 ths of a century, how?


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
"Peter B" <.@.> wrote in message news:4c8efead$[email]...

What is 3/4 ths of a century?

Why do you put "ths" after the 3/4?

Surely you're not trying to say that somebody shouldn't survive 3/4 of a
century without being vaccinated?


subject: Re: Dangers of Vaccines

text:
"carole" <[email]> wrote in message
news:G2ako.6507$[email]...
The question was, how did she survive that long? (Without one)


author: Jim Vienneau

subject: Re: FS: New DX4-75 Active Color 20m ram cheap

text:
In article <4iddvi$[email]>, [email] says...

I thought you said "cheap"??? Guess it's a matter of opinion...


author: Johnny Asia

text:
How to Assess Right-Wing Christian Militia

FREDERICK CLARKSON,   http://www.frederickclarkson.com,
http://www.talk2action.org

    Author of "Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and
Democracy," Clarkson is editor of the book "Dispatches from the
Religious Left: The Future of Faith and Politics in America." He is
founder of the interactive blog "Talk to Action" about the religious
right.

    Clarkson said today: "As we approach the April 19 anniversary of
the Oklahoma City bombing, it is worth recalling that the date has
deep significance for a variety of revolutionary-minded elements of
the far right.

    "Prosecutors say that the Hutaree militia hoped to spark an
uprising sometime in April. April 19 is the anniversary of the federal
government's assault on the Branch Davidian compound at Waco, Texas.
It is also the anniversary of the battle of Lexington and Concord and
the shot heard round the world, the beginning of the American
Revolution. ...

    "The Hutaree are being identified in the media as an explicitly
'Christian militia' -- this is significant in part because many
militia groups and members have been similarly religiously motivated.
They see themselves not merely as engaged in an insurrection against
the government, but in a religious war."

CHIP BERLET,   http://www.publiceye.org/right_wing_populism

    Berlet is senior analyst at Political Research Associates and
co-author of "Right-Wing Populism in America: Too Close for Comfort."
He said today: "Since the early 1990s a sector of the political right
in the United States has embraced a set of conspiracy theories about
supposed government plans to impose tyranny. ... Now with the
Democratic administration of Barack Obama these baseless conspiracy
theories have led to aggression and violence and an alleged domestic
terrorist plot. Why is anyone surprised?

    "The widespread public dualist demonization of scapegoated targets
has a sordid and violent history. It HAS happened here. Some
fundamentalist Christians portray the government as in league with the
Satanic Antichrist in the prophetic End Times. The government has a
legitimate law enforcement role in stopping domestic terrorism. But
most dissidents on the political right and left are breaking no laws.

    "The right-wing populist movement spans from reform-oriented
conservative black Republicans to recruiters for insurgent white
supremacist groups. The Tea Party activists and members of citizen
militias are somewhere between these two ideological and
methodological poles. It is wrong to lump all of these folks into one
undifferentiated mass of potential terrorists.

    "The dynamic of demonization and scapegoating is toxic to
democracy, and is not a problem for the police to solve. Religious,
political, business, and labor leaders have to find a backbone and
demand an end to the demonization of political opponents as traitors
out to destroy America. Republicans need to distance themselves from
conspiracist demagoguery and accept some moral responsibility for the
nasty polarization in our society. Democrats need to stop dismissing
the angry right-wing populists in the Tea Party movement as ignorant
and crazy. All of us need to stand up and call for a vigorous,
thoughtful and even raucous national debate over public policies; yet
we must also oppose all forms of demonization and scapegoating."


subject: Re: How to Assess Right-Wing Christian Militia

text:
On Mar 30, 3:09 pm, Johnny Asia <[email]> wrote:

Better safe than sorry.

Any Republican or Teabagger (many times they are the same) is suspect
until proven innocent.

"Turn in a winger and save your Country"

TMT


author: Concerend Citizen

text:
On Mar 30, 4:09 pm, Johnny Asia <[email]> wrote:

But it's still March!

Janet Reno sure knows how to pick 'em.  Who would have thought she was
sentimental about the American Revolution?

Legal and social attacks continue on people of the Christin faith.
Why?

Are we allowed to use the phrase "vast majority?"

Uh, you forgot Veterans.

Removing the Federal Reserve from our currency will go a long way
toward that goal, wouldn't it?

Something even easier would be to release 0bama's actual birth
certificate, and college records...

..and accept some moral responsibility for the suspicions by keeping
said papers secret.


author: [redacted]

text:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:39:00 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
<[email]> wrote:

To hell with those concepts of freedom, etc.......


text:
On Mar 30, 5:15 pm, Bill Smith <[email]> wrote:

Reason is to contain the threat.

A threat that is very real.

Sit back and watch the containment happen.

TMT


text:
On Mar 30, 5:25 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <[email]>
wrote:

Prove otherwise.

Every day your statements prove my case.

TMT


author: Bill Smith

text:
The above paragraph looks like a call to reason to me. You don't want
any part of that do you.

                                                Bill Smith


author: Klaus Schadenfreude

text:
How now, wool-sack Too_Many_Tools muttered in talk.politics.guns:

Another leftist that doesn't understand democratic principles and the
Constitution.


author: terryc

text:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:50:15 -0700, Klaus Shadenfreude wrote:

I thought the concept was "proven guilty"
In a criminal case, "not guilty" can mean they didn't do it or that thee
just wasn't enough clear evidence presented to convict them. so people
are not "proven innocent".


author: Klaus Shadenfreude

text:
[Default] On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:38:48 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
<[email]> wrote in talk.politics.guns:

Thanks for reinforcing the fact that you don't understand democratic
principles or the  Constitution.

You just can't help yourself, can you? Do you doodle little gulag
designs on napkins, too?

You're a mental case, that's the only case that's proven every single
day.


author: Gunner Asch

text:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 05:53:09 -0700, Klaus Shadenfreude
<[email]> wrote:

http://www.notintexas.org/Taking_Back_America.htm

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject."  Grey Ghost


author: hal

text:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 05:53:09 -0700, Klaus Shadenfreude
<[email]> wrote:

The issue here is the threat of the right wing extremists to The
Constitution.  Nice try turning this around into a "leftist" issue.


text:
[Default] On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:26:54 GMT, hal wrote in
talk.politics.guns:

No, the "issue" here is TMT's belief that people are guilty until
proven innocent. Try reading.


author: SaPeIsMa

text:
"hal" wrote in message news:[email]...

Define "right-wing extremist"
Define "threat" as you mean it.


text:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:31:49 -0700, Klaus Shadenfreude
<[email]> wrote:

No, he said "suspect".  You try reading.  And it's irrelevent anyway
because the issue is about assessing right wing extremists.


text:
[Default] On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:47:14 -0500, "SaPeIsMa"
<[email]> wrote in talk.politics.guns:

And while he's at it, he can tell us what makes him all warm and fuzzy
when he hears.... "... suspect  until proven innocent."


text:
[Default] On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:49:37 GMT, hal wrote in
talk.politics.guns:

"....until proven innocent."

You're really having trouble with this, aren't you?

[chuckle]


text:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:07:33 -0700, Klaus Shadenfreude
<[email]> wrote:

You don't think the police use "suspect until proven innocent"?  TMT
never said guilty.  You did.


text:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:52:39 -0700, Klaus Shadenfreude
<[email]> wrote:

No, you are.  He said:  "suspect until proven innocent".  That's
exactly what the police do every day.  If you are a suspect, they work
to prove you innocent to eliminate you from the suspect pool.  That's
what an alabi is all about.  To prove you innocent.  You misread, or
lied, and tried to turn that into him saying "guilty until proven
innocent" but that is clearly not what he said.  You derided him about
constitutionality crap when you were clearly misrepresenting what he
said.  You clearly are the one having problems here.  Go back and read
it again, moron.


text:
[Default] On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:50:16 GMT, hal wrote in
talk.politics.guns:

We're not talking about the police. We're talking about demented
leftists like TMT.

Explain what he meant by "suspect until proven innocent" then, since
we both know he won't.