author: Official Election Guide 2004

subject: Early Exit Polling: Bush Heading For Stunning Defeat

text:
THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO BUSH'S DEFEAT 2004
A short but informative guide to everything you need to know about how
and why George W. Bush lost the 2004 Presidential election.

---------------------

***BUSH WILL LOSE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE***
and probably the popular vote

- According to most major polls, the national race is tied
- 2/3 of undecideds traditionally break for the challenger
- This will give Kerry the popular vote
- But the electoral vote is the more important one
- 270 electoral votes are needed to win
- Kerry is winning or tied in the key battle ground states

http://www.slate.com
	Kerry	299 Electoral Votes, 149 solid, 75 likely, 75 iffy
	Bush	239 Electoral Votes, 168 solid, 59 likely, 12 iffy

http://www.electoral-vote.com
	Electoral Vote Predictor 2004: Kerry 283,Bush 246

http://www.race2004.net
	If the election were held today we project:
	Kerry wins the presidency with 296 electoral votes.
	Bush places second with 242 electoral votes.
	Kerry wins the popular vote with 55,075,004 votes (49.35%).
	Bush places second with 54,674,429 votes (48.99%).

---------------------

***TOP 10 REASONS FOR BUSH'S PINK SLIP***

1. JOB LOSS
3.2 million jobs lost under Bush Highest unemployment rate in 9 years.
Washington State has the third highest unemployment rate in the
country.

2. HEALTH CARE CRISIS
41.2 million Americans without health insurance under Bush 2.5 million
more uninsured Americans since Bush took officePresident has put forth
no plan to cover anyone.

3. POLLUTER-FRIENDLY
45% cut in cleaning up Superfund Toxic Waste sites under Bush Bush
wants to pass cost on to taxpayers

4. GUTTING OVERTIME
Bush wants to gut overtime pay for millions of hardworking
firefighters, nurses, teachers, waitresses, and other Americans.

5. MILLIONAIRES FIRST
Bush chooses tax giveaways for millionaires over relief for strapped
states Washington has a $2.4 billion shortfall; Most states forced to
cut services or raise taxes to pay for Bushs fiscal irresponsibility

6. BREAKING PROMISES TO VETERANS
Bush has refused to enroll 360,000 middle income Veterans in the VA
health system. A promise kept to our soldiers for years in this
country was broken by this President.

7. HOMELAND INSECURITY
Bush refuses to fully fund 2 out of 3 firehouses that are still
understaffed since Sept. 11th -- And 77% of all fire departments dont
have the necessary equipment and training to respond to biological or
chemical terrorist attacks.

8. CHILDREN LEFT BEHIND
Bush broke his promise to fund his own education program, leaving
millions and millions of children behind.

9. GO IT ALONE FOREIGN POLICY
Bush went to war in Iraq without a plan to win the peace, and in the
face of mounting American casualties he refuses to ask the U.N. and
international community to play a real role in sharing the burden of
reconstruction.

10. BANKRUPTING AMERICA
The Bush Administration has turned the largest surplus in history into
the largest deficit in history, and has overseen the worst economic
growth in 50 years.
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/bush-pink-slip.html

---------------------

***WOBBLY LEADERSHIP: BUSH'S FLIP-FLOPS***

1.Department of Homeland Security
BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a
Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies
within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the
answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White
House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I
ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department
with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of
America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address
to the Nation, 6/6/02]

2.Osama Bin Laden
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old
poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'"
[President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]
...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA ï¿½I don't know where he is. You know,
I just don't spend that much time on himï¿½ I truly am not that
concerned about him.ï¿½ [President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

3.Creation of the 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President
Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice
his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the
government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News,
5/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President
Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission
to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

4.Saddam/al Qaeda Link
BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND
SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you
talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]
...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no
evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President
Bush, 9/17/03]

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/bush-flip-flops.html

---------------------

***AMERICANS ARE TAKING THEIR COUNTRY BACK FROM THE BUSH RADICALS***

Join the conservatives & moderates who want to return to responsible,
sensible government:

Republicans for Kerry
http://www.republicansforkerry04.org

The Economist Endorses Kerry
http://www.economist.com

Conservative Blogger Picks Kerry
http://www.andrewsullivan.com

Bush's Kin Vote for Kerry
http://www.bushrelativesforkerry.com

Independents for Kerry
http://www.independentsforkerry.org

Another Republican for Kerry
http://anotherrepublicanforkerry.com

---------------------

***BUSH = STILL AWOL***
During a time of national crisis, Vietnam, where was Georege Bush?
- As a young man at the height of the Vietnam war, dodged the draft
with daddy's help
- Safely in the Texas ANG, went "missing" from duty 1972-3
- Nobody remembers him showing up to training in Alabama
- Has no quams about sending US soldiers into danger he himself
avoided
- Has the nerve to impugn decorated war heroes (McCain, Kerry) who
actually saw combat
- All talk: shouts "bring it on", plays Top Gun, brags "war president"
- Relies on underlings to do his dirty smear campaigns

Bush ... still AWOL in America's time of need
More info on Bush's missing documents: http://www.awolbush.com

---------------------

***THE BUSH HALL OF SHAME***
Was this guy really our President?

Bush flipflops on Bin Laden "dead or alive"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/somnamblst/debate.gif

Bush gives the American people the finger--really
http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov

Bush jokes about missing WMD (1000+ Americans died looking for it)
https://www.moveonpac.org/donate/winback-QT.html

Bush Smear Campaigns
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Bush_administration_smear_campaigns

---------------------

***OTHER LINKS & INFO***

Bush vs. Kerry: Military records
http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2004/02/02_400.html

Veterans for Kerry
http://veteransforkerry.home.att.net/

Veterans United for Kerry
http://www.veteransunitedforkerry.com/

John Kerry Veterans
http://www.4president.org/johnkerryveterans.htm

Billionaires for Bush
http://billionairesforbush.com

Qaeda says: We want Bush
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040317/325/eotq9.html

Osama for Bush?
http://www.liberty-news.com/cartoons/OsamaWantsBushReelected.gif

Pictures of the Dead
http://www.whywehatebush.com/news/04_08_portraits.html

Queen George - just for fun
http://www.illuminatrix.net/beetle/beetle.html

---------------------

***KERRY ENDORSEMENTS***
An incomplete list...

Newspapers
    * The New York Times
    * The Economist
    * The Washington Post
    * The Philadelhpia Inquirer
    * The Crawford Iconoclast (Bush's hometown paper)
    * Miami Herald
    * Boston Globe
    * Los Angeles Times
    * The Financial Times

Republicans Endorsing John Kerry
    * Charley Reese, conservative columnist/journalist, Orlando
Sentinel (1971-2001)
    * Lee Iacocca, former Chrysler Chairman
    * Russell E. Train, EPA chief under Nixon and Ford
    * Various Republican Business Leaders
    * Gail Slocum, former Republican Mayor of Menlo Park, California
    * Clay Myers, Republican Secretary of State (1967-77)
    * Bill Rutherford, former Treasurer of Oregon
    * George Comstock, Mayor of Portola Valley, California
    * Mike Cobb, former Republican Mayor of Palo Alto, California
    * Pete McCloskey, former Republican Representative from California
    * John Eisenhower, son of former Republican President Dwight D.
Eisenhower
    * Steve May, former Republican state legislator from Arizona
    * Jon Silver, former Republican Mayor of Portola Valley,
California
    * John A. Galbraith, former Republican Ohio General Assemblyman
    * David Catania, Republican Councilman from Washington, D.C.
    * Clyde Prestowitz, counselor to Ronald Reagan's Secretary of
Commerce
    * Rick Russman, former Republican State Senator from New Hampshire
    * Marshall Wittmann, former communications director to Senator
John McCain
    * Richard Schmalensee, former Council of Economic Advisers member
for Bush Sr.
    * Elmer L. Andersen, former Republican Governor of Minnesota
(1961-63)
    * William Milliken, former Republican Governor of Michigan
(1969-82)
    * Marlow Cook, former Republican Senator from Kentucky (1968-74)
    * Peter Gillette, former Republican Commissioner of Trade for
Minnesota (1991-95)

Republicans Who Will Not Vote For George W. Bush
    * Bob Barr, former Republican Representative from Georgia
(1995-2003)
    * Robert L. Black, retired Republican judge of the Ohio First
District Court of Appeals
    * John H. Buchanan, former Republican Congressman from Alabama
    * Lincoln Chafee, Republican Senator from Rhode Island
    * John Dean, former White House Counsel to former Republican
President Nixon
    * Paul Findley, former Republican Representative from Illinois
    * A. Linwood Holton former Republican Governor of Virginia
(1970-74)
    * Log Cabin Republicans
    * Paul O'Neill, former Treasury Secretary to Republican President
George W. Bush
    * Richie Robb, mayor of South Charleston, WV
    * William Saletan, "liberal Republican" columnist for Slate
    * Karl W. B. Schwarz, very conservative Republican from Arkansas
    * Andrew Sullivan, conservative columnist, former editor of The
New Republic

Diplomats and Military Leaders Against Bush
    * Lieutenant General Edward D. Baca (United States Army, Retired)
    * Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman (United States Army,
Retired)
    * General Wesley K. Clark (United States Army, Retired)
    * Admiral William J. Crowe (United States Navy, Retired)
    * Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn (United States Navy, Retired)
    * General Joseph Hoar (United States Marine Corps, Retired)
    * Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy (United States Army,
Retired)
    * Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick (United States Army, Retired)
    * General Merrill "Tony" A. McPeak (United States Air Force,
Retired)
    * General John M. Shalikashvili (United States Army, Retired)
    * Admiral Stansfield Turner (United States Navy, Retired)
    * General Johnnie E. Wilson (United States Army, Retired)

Diplomats & Military Leaders for Change
    * Admiral William J. Crowe, USN, Ret.
    * The Honorable Jeffrey S. Davidow
    * The Honorable William A. DePree
    * The Honorable Donald B. Easum
    * The Honorable Charles W. Freeman, Jr.
    * The Honorable William C. Harrop
    * The Honorable Arthur A. Hartman
    * General Joseph P. Hoar, USMC, Ret.
    * The Honorable H. Allen Holmes
    * The Honorable Robert V. Keeley
    * The Honorable Samuel W. Lewis
    * The Honorable Princeton N. Lyman
    * The Honorable Jack F. Matlock, Jr.
    * The Honorable Donald F. McHenry
    * General Merrill A. (Tony) McPeak, USAF, Ret.
    * The Honorable George E. Moose
    * The Honorable David D. Newsom
    * The Honorable Phyllis E. Oakley
    * The Honorable Robert Oakley
    * The Honorable James D. Phillips, Kansas
    * The Honorable John E. Reinhardt
    * General William Y. Smith, USAF, Ret.
    * The Honorable Ronald I. Spiers
    * The Honorable Michael E. Sterner
    * Admiral Stansfield Turner, USN, Ret.
    * The Honorable Alexander F. Watson

Scientists Against Bush
    * Union of Concerned Scientists (5,000+ signatories)
    * Scientists and Engineers for Change -- the following 48 Nobel
Laureates:
    * Peter Agre Chemistry 2003
    * David H. Hubel Medicine 1981
    * Sidney Altman Chemistry 1989
    * Louis Ignarro Medicine 1998
    * Philip W. Anderson Physics 1977
    * Eric R. Kandel Medicine 2000
    * David Baltimore Medicine 1975
    * Walter Kohn Chemistry 1998
    * Baruj Benacerraf Medicine 1980
    * Arthur Kornberg Medicine 1959
    * Paul Berg Chemistry 1980
    * Leon M. Lederman Physics 1988
    * Hans A. Bethe Physics 1967
    * Tsung-Dao Lee Physics 1957
    * Michael Bishop Medicine 1989
    * David M. Lee Physics 1996
    * Gunter Blobel Medicine 1999
    * William N. Lipscomb Chemistry 1976
    * N. Bloembergen Physics 1981
    * Roderick MacKinnon Chemistry 2003
    * James W. Cronin Physics 1980
    * Mario J. Molina Chemistry 1995
    * Johann Diesenhofer Chemistry 1988
    * Joseph E. Murray Medicine 1990
    * John B. Fenn Chemistry 2002
    * Douglas D. Osheroff Physics 1996
    * Val Fitch Physics 1980
    * George Palade Medicine 1974
    * Jerome I. Friedman Physics 1990
    * Arno Penzias Physics 1978
    * Walter Gilbert Chemistry 1980
    * Martin L. Perl Physics 1995
    * Alfred G. Gilman Medicine 1994
    * Norman F. Ramsey Physics 1989
    * Donald A. Glaser Physics 1960
    * Burton Richter Physics 1976
    * Sheldon L. Glashow Physics 1979
    * Joseph H. Taylor Jr. Physics 1993
    * Joseph Goldstein Medicine 1985
    * E. Donnall Thomas Medicine 1990
    * Roger Guillemin Medicine 1977
    * Charles H. Townes Physics 1964
    * Dudley Herschbach Chemistry 1986
    * Harold Varmus Medicine 1989
    * Roald Hoffmann Chemistry 1981
    * Eric Wieschaus Medicine 1995
    * H. Robert Horvitz Medicine 2002
    * Robert W. Wilson Physics 1978

Independents for Kerry 2004
    * Ron Reagan, Jr., son of late Republican President Ronald Reagan
    * Angus King, former Governor of Maine (1995-2003)
    * Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota (1999-2003)

Nobel Economists Endorsing Kerry
    * George A. Akerlof: University of California at Berkeley 2001
    * Kenneth J. Arrow: Stanford University 1972
    * Daniel Kahneman: Princeton University 2002
    * Lawrence R. Klein: University of Pennsylvania 1980
    * Daniel L. McFadden: University of California at Berkeley 2000
    * Douglass C. North: Washington University St. Louis 1993
    * Paul A. Samuelson: MIT 1970
    * William F. Sharpe: Stanford University 1990
    * Robert M. Solow: MIT 1987
    * Joseph E. Stiglitz: Columbia University 2001

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Republicans_for_Kerry_2004

---------------------

***KERRY'S RECORD***
In contrast to the Bush attack ads, Kerry has a strong record on
defense, crime, environment, jobs, and health care.

Legislation Sponsored, Co- Sponsored by John Kerry :
108th congress- 48 bills sponsored, 423 co-sponsored
107th congress- 146 bills sponsored, 467 co-sponsored
106th congress-63 bills sponsored, 473 co-sponsored
105th congress-40 bills sponsored, 268 co-sponsored
104th congress-92 bills sponsored, 233 co-sponsored

1. Kerry authored money laundering provisions in the PATRIOT Act. He
believes those provisions should be strengthened to include non-bank
institutions and increase funding for information gathering and
sharing.-- Kerry spoke in favor of applying the same laws against
terrorists we use against crime

2. Kerry Wrote Legislation to Extend Health Insurance to Needy
Children; Voted for Additional Funding to Expand the Program. In 1996,
Kerry wrote the "Healthy Children, Family Assistance Health Insurance
Program" to allow "families who do not qualify for Medicaid, but who
are financially unable to purchase private insurance, to be given
government subsidies to purchase private coverage for their children.

3. In l994, John Kerry introduced legislation to make $85 billion in
specific program budget cuts over five years, and also led a group of
five Senators in sponsoring another package to cut $43 billion from
the deficit over the same time period.

4. In 1995, Senator Kerry built on his deficit reduction record by
authoring The Responsible Deficit Reduction Act -- which proposed to
cut unnecessary and wasteful government spending by more than $90
billion. In addition, he fought alongside Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) to
reduce more than $60 billion in wasteful "corporate welfare" from the
federal budget. Most recently, John Kerry has supported two plans
which balance the budget by the year 2002.

5. He authored legislation to create new incentives for investment in
start-up companies and to promote advanced and environmental
technologies. He successfully pushed legislation for targeted
preferential capital gains treatment of investment in new enterprises,
and has been a leading advocate of a permanent research and
development tax credit.

6. He also has authored critical conservation bills like the Fishery
Conservation Amendments of 1990, the Sustainable Fisheries Act and the
Atlantic Coastal Cooperative Fishery Management Act. Kerry was a key
backer of the Marine Mammal Protection Act Reauthorization and the
Flood Insurance Reform Act, both of which became law in 1993. He is
co-chairman of GLOBE-USA, an international group of legislators
dedicated to forging an international environmental agenda.

7. He authored a successful amendment to the Fiscal Year 2002 budget
resolution that increased funding for renewable energy, energy
efficiency and climate change research. Additionally, he authored a
resolution that passed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee calling
on the Bush Administration to engage in international efforts to
mitigate the threat of climate change.

8. Senator Kerry authored bipartisan legislation with Senator Ted
Stevens of Alaska that would require the reporting of greenhouse gas
emissions, one of the first of its kind to be introduced in the
Congress. This legislation would provide the framework for
understanding how the nation can best reduce air pollution and the
threat of global warming.

9. The Senator authored an amendment to the Water Resources
Development Act of 1999 authorizing the Army Corps of Engineers to
study a comprehensive plan for the Muddy River. The legislation became
law and the basis for additional study, funding and project
development.

10. The Senator authored a bipartisan letter to the White House, and
the trail was selected. The Massachusetts portion of the trail is
planned to run up the Blackstone Heritage Corridor to Worcester, then
east to Boston and finally to New Hampshire.

11. Senator Kerry was the co-author with former Senator Bob Smith
(R-NH) of the successful effort to halt an annual $2 million subsidy
for the mink industry - terminating a taxpayer give-away to the
corporate mink industry. Kerry and Smith shepherded this amendment
through the Senate during debate on the Fiscal Year 1995 Agriculture
Appropriations Act, and they have repelled subsequent efforts by
legislators aligned with the mink industry to revive the taxpayer
boondoggle.

12. Kerry has also been the co-author, with Senator Rick Santorum
(R-PA), of letters in recent years sent to the leaders of the Senate
Subcommittee on Agriculture Appropriations to increase funding for
existing animal protection laws, including the Animal Welfare Act and
the Humane Slaughter Act.

13. Kerry wrote the legislation that created the COPS (Community
Oriented Policing) program, which put thousands of new police officers
on the streets, and supported laws to crack down on money laundering
and international drug dealers. As President, John Kerry wants to
fight illegal drugs by targeting the drug traffickers, and fully fund
drug prevention and treatment to reduce the demand for illegal drugs.

14. He is the author of the Federal Presumptive Disability
legislation, S. 530, in the Senate. This bill will provide parity to
federal fire fighters with their municipal counterparts in classifying
certain cancers and heart ailments as job related ailments. John Kerry
has supported federal fire fighters throughout his Senate career,
cosponsoring the Fire Fighters Pay Fairness Act in two Congresses.
This legislation would ensure equality between federal fire fighters
and public sector fire fighters.

15. John Kerry has introduced legislation requiring the Department of
Defense to reimburse family members who paid money out of their own
pockets to provide the personal body armor that the government failed
to deliver.

16. In February of 2002, Senators John Kerry, a Democrat of
Massachusetts, and John McCain, an Arizona Republican, drafted a
bipartisan bill that would raise CAFE standards for all vehicles to 36
mpg. Democrats from Michigan prevailed in passing a competing proposal
that directed NHTSA to consider CAFE within two years, and to take
into account potential job losses and other economic impacts of
changes to the CAFE standards. The Kerry-McCain proposal was shelved.

17. Kerry did, introduce S. 2116, the Welfare Reform and Housing Act.
The bill conforms immigrant eligibility for HUD rental housing
programs to other federal programs by confirming that qualified
battered immigrants and Cuban/Haitian entrants are eligible.

18. Even prior to this industry initiative, US Sens. Olympia Snowe
(R-ME) and John Kerry (D-MA) recognized the magnitude of the problem
and authored a bill to clarify that the secretary of commerce has
authority to extend the rebuilding timelines under certain conditions.
This extra flexibility would "allow managers to meet social and
ecological needs of the fishery," said the senators.

19. He authored the Mychal Judge Act to hire 100,000 fire fighters
that helped propel the passage of the SAFER Act, shortly after that
most catastrophic day.

20. Senators Rick Santorum (R-PA), John Kerry (D-MA) and Paul Sarbanes
(D-MD) have introduced a Senate companion bill to the House-passed
H.R. 202. Included in this legislation is a preservation matching
grant program similar to the one established in H.R. 202. Portions of
H.R. 202 were enacted in 1999 but several of the bill's provisions
were not. This bill tries to jump-start action on these issues in the
Senate.

21. He helped draft the Hate Crimes bill.

22. He drafted the first gayfriendly anti-discrimination bill in the
Senate in 1985. None would sign on to it with him or advocate with
him. Too politically incorrect back then, I guess.

23. He helped draft the Kyoto Protocol for almost 10 years.

24. Using FHA Surpluses To Create A Federal Housing Trust Fund
Policy Recommendations:
- Allocate FHA Surpluses for Building Affordable Housing Current law
does not require FHA surpluses to be spent on addressing housing
needs. The Clinton Administration and Congress should allocate the
existing $5 billion FHA surplus for building housing for the more than
200,000 working families that would benefit from this use.
- Create a Federal Housing Trust Fund Senator Kerry (D-Mass.) will
soon introduce legislation creating a Federal Housing Trust Fund to
ensure that FHA surpluses are legally earmarked for building
affordable housing.

25. Kerry Authored the HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria Assistance
Legislation. John Kerry wrote the Aids Assistance legislation to help
establish a comprehensive, integrated, five year strategy to combat
the global spread of HIV and AIDS. It also significantly increases the
funding for HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria prevention and
treatment programs.

26. John Kerry is the author of the "Nurse Reinvestment Act" which
will help end the nursing shortage in the United States and is
threatening our health care system. Kerry's legislation provides
scholarships for nursing students, establishes training grants for
nurses, offers grants to nursing schools for loan programs, institutes
career ladder programs, creates a nurse retention and patient safety
enhancement grant, and provides for a public service announcement
campaign to promote the nursing profession.

***KERRY VS. CHENEY ON DEFENSE***

APACHE HELICOPTER: The Kerry Record
Kerry has supported $13 billion in defense authorizations for the
Apache
THE CHENEY RECORD: Terminate The Apache

AEGIS SHIPS: The Kerry Record
Kerry has supported at least $53 billion defense authorizations for
the Aegis program
THE CHENEY RECORD: Cheney Cut Program, Costing Jobs.

BRADLEY FIGHTING VEHICLES: The Kerry Record
Kerry has supported at least $8.5 billion in defense authorizations
for the Bradley program
THE CHENEY RECORD: Bush-Cheney Budget Terminated The Bradley.

BLACKHAWK HELICOPTERS: The Kerry Record
Kerry has supported at least $13 billion in defense authorizations on
versions of the Blackhawk.
THE CHENEY RECORD: Terminate The Black Hawk.

B-2 BOMBER: The Kerry Record
Kerry has supported over $16.7 billion in defense authorizations for
the B-2 program
THE CHENEY RECORD: Cheney Proposed Cuts to B-2 Program

C-17 CARGO JETS: The Kerry Record
Kerry supported at least $34.5 billion in defense authorizations for
the C-17
THE CHENEY RECORD: Cutting C-17 Program.

F/A-18 FIGHTER JETS : The Kerry Record
Kerry supported at least $60 billion in defense authorizations for the
F/A-18 and F-18
THE CHENEY RECORD: Cutbacks Hit Industry Hard

F-16 FIGHTER JETS: The Kerry Record
Kerry supported at least $25 billion in defense authorizations for the
F-16.
THE CHENEY RECORD: Cheney Proposed Cutting F-16 Aircraft

TOMAHAWK MISSILES: The Kerry Record
Kerry supported at least $6 billion in defense authorizations for the
Tomahawk missile program.
THE CHENEY RECORD: No New Missiles Requested Even As Stocks Depleted
Before Gulf War, Cutbacks Lead To Layoffs

PATRIOT MISSILE SYSTEM: The Kerry Record
Kerry supported at least $10 billion in defense authorizations for the
Patriot program.

***KERRY ON CRIME***

* 1995: Kerry Voted To Make It Easier For Courts To Authorize A
"Roving Wiretap" in Terrorism. Kerry voted for an amendment to make it
easier for courts, in terrorism cases, to authorize a so-called roving
wiretap that can follow a suspect from one phone to another. Law
enforcement would have to show that a suspect's movement among
different phones had the effect of thwarting surveillance rather than
the current requirement to prove that the suspect was intentionally
evading surveillance.

* 1996: Kerry Voted to Allow Multi-Point Wiretaps. Kerry voted against
a motion to kill a motion to recommit the bill to the conference
committee with instructions to report it back including a Senate
passed provision that allows multi-point wiretaps when a subject uses
many phones to thwart interception.

* 1996: Kerry Voted for Wiretaps of Terrorism Offenses. Kerry voted
against a motion to kill a motion to recommit the bill to the
conference committee with instructions to report the conference report
back with a provision adding certain terrorism offenses to the list of
crimes for which federal law allows wiretaps.

* 1996: Kerry Voted to Allow Emergency Wiretaps for Terrorist
Conspiracies. Kerry voted against a motion to kill a motion to
recommit the conference report to conference with instructions to
report it back with an amendment to allow law enforcement agencies to
get emergency wiretaps in cases involving terrorist conspiracies.

* 2001: Kerry Voted for Greater Computer Surveillance. Kerry voted to
kill the Feingold, D-Wis., amendment that would clarify that the
computer trespass provision in the bill applies only to "hacking" and
denial of service attacks. It also would limit the length of
surveillance without a warrant.

* 2001: Kerry Voted for Broader Roving Wiretaps. Kerry voted to kill
the Feingold, D-Wis., amendment that would provide that in order to
conduct roving surveillance, the person implementing the order must
ascertain that the target of the surveillance is present in the house
or is using the phone that has been tapped.

* 2001: Kerry Voted to Give FBI More Authority to Obtain Records.
Kerry voted to kill the

---------------------

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will
not have, nor do they deserve, either one.". Benjamin Franklin

2004 Public domain, free for distribution


author: Ed

subject: Re: Early Exit Polling: Bush Heading For Stunning Defeat

text:
Not this time. Do you have a copy of:

THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO  KERRY'S DEFEAT 2004


author: Brent D. Gardner, ChFC

subject: America Wins!

text:
I have a number for ya...

4,000,000

I like the word majority:

Popular vote majority, electoral college majority, Senate majority, House
majority.  Nifty.  Cool.  Awesome!

This is one big fat DUBYA in the win column for Americans, and a big L for
LOSER for the terrorists.

Brent D. Gardner, ChFC
Chartered Financial Consultant
http://members.cox.net/brentdgardner1378/

"Be ever questioning. Ignorance is not bliss. It is oblivion. You don't go
to heaven if you die dumb. Become better informed. Learn from other's
mistakes. You could not live long enough to make them all yourself." - Hyman
George Rickover (1900-86), Admiral, US Navy, advocated development of
nuclear subs & ships

The Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU) and Chartered Financial Consultant
(ChFC), designations owned and exclusively offered by The American College,
signify the highest standards of academic study and professional excellence
in the financial services industry.


author: Clemens Gehrmann

subject: Re: America Wins!

text:
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:22:50 -0600, "Brent D. Gardner, ChFC"
<[email]> wrote:

Yea, finally Dubya can act like the Dictator he always wanted to be.
Woohoo!

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier -
just so long I'm the dictator." George W Bush, December 18, 2000
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html)

-----------------------------------------------------
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush, Aug 5, 2004


author: Norm De Plume

subject: Re: America Wins!

text:
Clemens Gehrmann <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

One who eats nachos all day while admirers applaud him?


author: JF Mezei

subject: Data use example

text:
This was the start of the month for my mobile service. Reset the usage
statistics. Turnedd on data while on the bus to read the BBC news on
mobile XHTML (with Opera since safari doesn't support mobile web formats)

for roughly half an hour of browsing only text pages, I consumed about
256k of text, and sent 85k of stuff.

There is no way that HTTP requests would have equalled this. So
obviously the phone itself is sending stiuff over to Apple or whoever. I
am not sure if this is 85k per 30 minutes, or if it is 85k when your IP
switches and the phone re-registers itself with Apple.

I just looked through the settings, and couldn't find an obvous setting
for the apple push notification service. Is there a way to turn it
off/on globally ? or is this something which has to be changed in every
applciation that supports it ?


author: NightStalker

subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <4cf730fb$0$23226$c3e8da3$[email]>,
[email] says...

I'm really not sure why you're getting your knickers in a knot about
this?

The iPhone uses data - period. My plan with Telstra NextG here in
Australia is a $79 capped plan, for which I get $450 worth of phone
calls (Yeah, I know that's misleading - that's what the cost would be at
full price) PLUS 500 Mb of data.  If I want to add what they call a
"Browsing Pack" of extra data, there are options from $10 all the way
up.

But even though our data in Australia is up there with the most
expensive on the planet, I don't go anywhere near using my monthly
allowance on the iPhone.  A lot of what I do is at home, and connects
over WiFi.

And don't forget that we have VERY few free WiFi hotspots here in
Australia.  Macdonalds is about it!  Hotels etc all charge like wounded
bulls per 15 minutes of wifi!  A very small number of coffee shops have
real free wifi, but most use one of the commercial services that charge.

Not all of the world is as lucky as the USA!

So I really don't know why you turn your data off, or on the other hand,
why you got a smartphone in the first place?  They use data!  Get a good
plan and use it.  Or get a simple dumb phone that doesn't use data.


author: Todd Allcock

subject: Re: Data use example

text:
At 06 Dec 2010 06:21:29 +1000 NightStalker wrote:

I'm in the US and I get irritated as well!  ;)

In Silicon Valley, or other high-tech job areas, free WiFi is pretty
ubiquitous, but it's a big country.  Other than hotels, public libraries,
bookstores, and coffee shops, you won't find a lot of free WiFi even in
the US.


author: nospam

subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <4cf730fb$0$23226$c3e8da3$[email]>, JF
Mezei <[email]> wrote:

it adds up fast and the carriers are very happy to round up to the
nearest k. if you send a few bytes, it counts as 1k. do that a bunch of
times and you have your 85k easily.

if you've installed an app that supports push, there will be a
notifications panel in settings. from there, you can turn all
notifications off or individually. if you don't have any push apps
installed (and have run them), it won't show up.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
NightStalker wrote:

All phones can use data. There isnt that much difference between a smart
phone and a phone anymore, except for form factor and touch screen.

My previous phone gave me a web browser that supported the XHTML mobile
profile. And the same type of use to read the BBC news generated less
data usage than opera on the iphone accessing the same web site,
especially for the upload portion.

I can't tell whether it is opera which generates the data upload or the
phone itself.

Yes, for people who have 30 gigs of data limits, they don't care. Not
everyone has that.

I don't need that much mobile data. So I am not going to pay $25/month
to read BBC news on the bus.

I have wi-fi access where I need the iphone as a data device.


author: Your Name

subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <[email]>,
NightStalker <[email]> wrote:

Apparently the Apple Stores have free WiFi, if you live near one. We don't
even have those in New Zealand (just the local distributor Rennaisance
pretending to be "Apple NZ" and their MagnumMac stores).  :-(


author: David Empson

subject: Re: Data use example

text:
nospam <[email]> wrote:

In addition, the ISP will be counting every byte of every transmitted IP
packet, including the TCP and IP headers, which are usually 40 bytes in
total (assuming IPv4 and no IP or TCP options).

Acknowledgement packets are also counted. There is typically an
acknowledgement sent for every two data packets received, so that's at
least 40 bytes sent per 3000 (or less, including headers) received.

If separate TCP connections are required to fetch each item on a web
page, there are also the SYN, initial ACK, FIN and FIN/ACK packets,
which add up to at least another 160 bytes per page element.

It all adds up.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <4cfad03d$0$23220$c3e8da3$[email]>,
[email] says...

Our local mobile phone stores have several models of "plain jane" mobile
phones that use NO data apart from the phonecall data.  No browser, no
nothing.  Aimed at those who just want a phone.  My mother in law has
one (a Siemens).  She needs NO data plan at all, and has no connection
to the internet.

Yes - strictly speaking, ALL phone calls on a GSM system are data, as
they use packet transmission.  But that is not what we're talking about
here - the OP was talking about data that eats into his data allowance
as differentiated by the phone company's plan.  The difference is
between pure phone calls, and connection to the internet.   I think...!!
;)


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <your.name-0512101329520001@203-109-166-
57.dial.dyn.ihug.co.nz>, [email] says...

I don''t.  The two Apple stores in the state are both about 100 Km away,
one to the north, one to the south.

I must admit to finding it just a little irritating when all the
US/Canada posters go on about "Why don't you just use all the free wifi
spots?".  We don't have them.  Unless one wants to go to Macdonalds,
basically.

But back to the OP's non-problem.  I really don't know why he's trying
to hobble his phone's data transmissions?  I have everything turned on,
but I still don't go near my 500 Mb (that's "only" half a gigabyte...!)
limit each month.  I do have wifi at home, so major downloads, such as
app updates etc, are done at home.  But my iPhone does get a LOT of use
away from home, over the NextG (3.5G) network.

He seemed to be fretting over a measly 250Kb.  My monthly allowance is
500 Mb, or 500,000 Kb....  !!

I think that in the ongoing rush from Kb to Mb to Gb to Tb, we have lost
sight of just how MUCH data that really is.


author: Fred

subject: Re: Data use example

text:
[email] (David Empson) wrote in
news:[email]:

IP

Which is precisely why I've decided a high powered external USB wifi card
with a lot more serious high gain antenna to free wifi hotspots, up to
1/2 mile away, totally unavailable using the netbook's chinzy little 20mw
wifi and horrible internal antenna, is FAR superior to this sellphone
nonsense counting bytes.  The restaurants and hotels don't care how much
bandwidth I use during lunch watching TV/videos or downloading spam on
webpages.

Screw 'em.  The days of selling-it-by-the-byte are OVAH!

The most expensive data on the PLANET is a 10c, 180 byte text message!
1GB/180 bytes = 5,555,555 messages x 10c/msg = $555,555/GB!  How stupid!
No WONDER sellphone carrier gets all excited if you use 5GB/month!  He's
thinking about lost revenues from the damned text messagers.....

<http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-158/Alfa-AWUS036NH-2000mW-
1000mW/Detail.bok>
<http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-63/Antenna-9dbi-Alfa-RP-dsh-
SMA/Detail.bok>

This solution just works better to a laptop/netbook in the city.
Perkin's Pancake House delivers 12Mbps down and 3Mbps up!  I could run a
server from my table....for FREE!  ESPN3 plays the ballgame in high def!

<http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-ANTENNAS-cln-Directional-
Grid/Categories.bok>
(Guess we'd better not bring the best antennas to our table...hee hee)

http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-BRIDGES-repeaters/Categories.bok
One of these repeaters in your briefcase or car would give iPhone much
more serious wifi capturing range......


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
"David Empson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
formats)
I
IP

Also if for some reason there's an error in the received / sent data it will
ask for it to be sent again. Then of course there are webpages that send
data back to count various statistics.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
NightStalker wrote:

My monthly allowance is 6megabytes. I am not about to pay $25/month to
read BBC news in the bus/train in the morning/eveniong.

This was sufficient when I had sony ericsson, and my usage while not in
a wi-fi zone has not changed. So increased data consumption is due to
overhead from the iphone itself.

Remember that with availability of unlocked phones, the iPhone is now
available to anyone on any type of mobile package. Mine happens to date
back from the Fido era and can't temporarily change it and come back.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
"NightStalker" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Some of the cafes in in New Zealand have "free" wifi access ... but only if
you buy something first.  I don't think there are any real free hotspots
here (not that I have any device / computer capable of using them anyway).
:-\


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
Made a test yesterday,

Just turning on 3g data caused 2k to be uploaded to the network. (fairly
quickly).

I guess I would have to reboot my iphone and not use any applications,
and then measure the data usage when first turning on 3g data. (no
applications would be registered with Apple, so there should be no
exchanges).

I seem to recall seeing some "push notification" type of settings, but
on my iphone, I can't find anything in the settings.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <4cfc011c$0$2357$c3e8da3$[email]>,
[email] says...

6Mb??  Are you kidding?  That's not a data allowance - that's a grudging
pittance.

Are you sure you're on an iPhone plan?  Why don't you check with your
phone company about that?  Even Telstra, our notoriously scrooge-like
biggest Telco here in Australia, has 500Mb of data in the regular capped
phone plans for the iPhone.  And you can buy extra browser packs of data
allowance to add on if you get near the end of the month and need more.

Can you add more data allowance for little cost?  Or change plan to one
that gives you a usable data allowance?

If they'd tried to foist me with a plan that only allows 6Mb (are you
really sure that's correct??) for a smartphone, I'd go and laugh in
their face and insist on getting a much better plan.  Jump up and down,
make sure they realise there has been some sort of error on their part,
and they need to rectify it a.s.a.p. at no expense to you... ;)

The ABC Australia news page is about 5Mb in size on its own...!


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
NightStalker wrote:

I am sure I am NOT on an iPhone plan. That was part of the goal to
purchase an unlocked iPhone so I could preserved my grandfathered plan
from many years ago when Fido was an independnt competitive company. Now
it is under the Rogers' umbrella and plans are much more expensive.

6mb is still useful when you access mobile web sites with images turned
off. If I need access to the phone directory to get a number, it really
doesn't gnerate much data. Same for the mobile BBC web site.

And that plan allows me to tether. But it also requires i jailbreak the
iphone to gain the ability to set the APN properly (since the plan uses
APNs that are different from the ones used by iphone-specific plans.
Fido disables tethering for the $25-500mb plan, you need to spend $30 to
get tethering enabled. So my little $5 plan allows me thethering which a
$25 doesn't.

Thetering is good when you have a power failure, or when you needto test
your own network from the outside. (pings, traceroutes). I have done
somr IRC chats during a major network outage.

And yeah, 6mb isn't enough to load the home page of most web sites these
days. But it is enough to load a .PNG of the local weather radar which I
reduced to 20kb. So when riding my bike, I can see if there is rain coming.

This isn't to say that given a 500mb plan, I wouldn't use it. Of course
I would use it. But $20/month extra to see pretty pictures during a bus
ride isn't really worth it.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <4cffddc2$0$5793$c3e8da3$[email]>,
[email] says...

Not sure how things work in Canada, but here in Australia, I have an
unlocked iPhone, and I just have a plan that is NOT tied to a contract.
That was the purpose of my getting an unlocked iPhone (from the Apple
Store, in fact).

All that means is that I can change plans whenever I like, as my phone
is not subsidised or tied to a contract.  Each time the plans on offer
change, due to competition, I change to take advantage of the better
allowances, cheaper prices, etc.

You keep talking about $25/month to look at pretty pictures.  If that's
all you think an iPhone is capable of, then I think you have entirely
the wrong idea about the phone.  I rarely use a browser on the iPhone,
but I DO use Calendar, Address Book, Evernote, Google, and many other
apps that sync with central servers (the cloud) using MobileMe or
Google, Evernote, etc.  I use several other apps that access the net,
and occasionally use the browser.  Oh yes - I also use the weather
radar, and the TV Guide.  All use data.

If you're trying to be a cheapskate, then perhaps you need not have got
a smart phone, while trying to stay on some $5/month plan.

If you really can't afford a proper plan, then you're wasting the vast
majority of the capabilities of your phone.

For the record, I pay $79/month, for which I get $450-worth of calls (or
what would be $450-worth if charged at full price) PLUS 500 Mb of data.

I have cancelled the landline, and save $29.95/month in line rental
right there.  I don't need a landline.

I also save the phone handset rental, and the silent phone number fee
that I have been paying for years.

So - if you really want a smart phone (and not just to look at pretty
pictures, as you put it) and want to use its capabilities (try Evernote
for starters - I wouldn't be without it) then get a proper plan and you
won't have to worry about piddly little 250Kb data packets leaking out
of the phone...! ;)


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
NightStalker wrote:

No, because the vast majority of the time, I have wi-fi access. And I
still have the option of getting a real data plan if my lifestyle
changes. But once I do that, i can never return to my affordable bit
plan because that plan is long gone.  If they had a $10 plan for 100megs
of real data, I would consider it. But the networks $10 deals are just
for teenagers access to twitter hotmail/gmail and facebook, provide no
real email access (only port 80 allowed) and of course, no tethering.


subject: Re: Data use example

text:
In article <4cfff05a$0$11998$c3e8da3$[email]>,
[email] says...

Hmmm - fair enough, I suppose.  Your decision.  And if you access data
most of the time via WiFi, then you're lucky.  The only place I have
access to WiFi is at home.  But I'm not at home a lot of the time, so
rely on the NextG phone network, which is a very fast network with
excellent coverage.


author: shri

subject: background check

text:
Hi all

Where is this background check done? Is it in the country of
applicant's origin or in the country where the applicant is living and
applied for the PR.

Asusual thatnx in advance for the help Shri


author: Jim Humphries

subject: Re: background check

text:
The aswer is that it is done in both countries.
Jim Humphries

shri wrote:


author: Andrew Miller

subject: Re: background check

text:
Background/security check is conducted by Canadian security agencies,
independently from the immigration authorities, with and/or without a
cooperation of proper agencies and authorities in all countries you have
resided for 6 months or more. This tasks is to find out if you are or were at
any time involved in any criminal activity, organized crime, espionage,
terrorism, war crimes, crimes against humanity or any other activity that may
pose a threat to the security of Canada and Canadians and if you are or were a
part of or working for any government or organization involved in war crimes,
human rights abuse and crimes against humanity. Depending on your nationality,
background and countries you have resided in this process may take from few
months to well over a year to conclude.


subject: Re: background check

text:
But is it not same as the police clearence that the applicant is
required to obtain.

Thanks

Shri


author: The StockHog

subject: Re: Broker Question

text:
You can find all kinds of broker ratings, rankings and lists including what
you are looking for at http://www.stockzoo.com/Html/Links/Lists/Brokers/

Good Luck
The StockHog

StockZOO.......we're just a bunch of bull
http://www.stockzoo.com

Flike wrote in message ...


author: Charles Ho

subject: * GV 33.6K for Mac, brand new in the box *

text:
Global Village Teleport 33.6K Voice/Fax Ext. for Macintosh
Upgradable to 56K

For specification, please visit http://www.globalvillage.com/

** Brand new in the box **

$45.00 O.B.O

If interested, please email [email]


author: zzxxyy

subject: Fed up with home searching

text:
i was gonna buy a home before spring but the whole process sucks. i made 3
offers here in NYC area and there aren't any homes that really interest me
in my budget of around $300K.
 im 29 now and single. i think i am gonna rent one more year  then buy a
home, maybe after i get married.   maybe homes will depreciate a year from
now.


author: D. Gerasimatos

subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
In article <dUkd8.3439$[email]>,
zzxxyy <[email]> wrote:

And we care because?

Dimitri


author: rich

subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
Also schrieb [email]:

Depreciate?  In the NYC area?  You're dreaming.

You've gotta go to Warren County or out into PA.  And even then, home prices
are slowly creeping up unless you want a little bungalow in the Poconos.  The
comps in my development (in the Lehigh Valley) are anywhere from 350K on up.

If you rent, you'll only be further behind the curve.  Lower your standards.
Buy something you can sell in a couple years after it appreciates, or move
west.


author: me (noah

subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
aren't you the one that was going to low ball offers by 20% or so until
someone would bite? looks like the plan backfired, you should be reasonable
when making offers, people don't give away homes (at least not on the open
market :)

"zzxxyy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:dUkd8.3439$[email]...


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
standards.
just don't get to california where 1 bedroom condos can easily go for 300K
:)


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
no i offer  5-10% off the asking price

me (noah) <[email]> wrote in message
news:a5643o$4udjs$[email]...
reasonable
3
me
from


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
In article <ngyd8.21467$[email]>,
BuildaLittle <[email]> wrote:

What he will find is that homes will depreciate about as much as interest
rates go up. So he will be borrowing less, but his monthly payments will
be the same. If he's lucky.

Dimitri


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
ahahahah - lol. Maybe I oughta move to NY. Here in SoCal unless you are
buying in Adelanto or Perris you better come to bat with full asking price.


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
In article <GrVd8.30488$[email]>,
zzxxyy <[email]> wrote:

Maybe if you offered asking price (or more) you'd have a house now. Don't
give up yet.

Dimitri


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
Three comments:
The original poster didn't say how much, if anything, s/he was going to borrow.

Have none of you seen periods since, say, 1965, when housing generally was in a
slump and, indeed, house prices depreciated?

Lastly, spam baby, are you consulting your fiancee about this house? (Separate
baths is the key to a successful marriage.)


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
Three comments:
1. The original  poster said nothing about how much, if any, s/he is going to
borrow.

2. Have none of you seen a period since, say, 1965, where house prices
generally declined?

3. Spam, baby, consult your fiancee about this house you're thinking about
buying. (The key to a successful marriage is separate master bedroom baths.)


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
In article <[email]>,
WahTaWah41 <[email]> wrote:

I assume he is going to borrow a lot of money given that he doesn't
currently own a house and $300,000 seems to be a lot of money for him.
If he had $600,000 cash he probably wouldn't be bitching.

Yes. These were usually times when interest rates were high. As housing
prices start to fall (which they might), interest rates will start to
rise. This is because rates really can't get any lower than they are.

I was in Southern California when the last real estate bubble popped in
1989 or so. So, it can happen. Don't hold your breath, and especially
don't assume that interest rates will be cooperative when it does.

We have seen the price of real estate in Tokyo take a dive of epic
proportions, even with low interest rates. The other side to that is that
people who bought "at the bottom" have been watching the bottom fall even
lower for quite some time now.

Stop trying to time the market and buy when it makes sense financially for
you to buy. Buy a house you like and can afford. Don't sweat any other
details. Like in the stock market, it's not a loss until you sell. Unlike
stocks, though, a house has value above and beyond investment value as
we all need a place to live anyway.

Dimitri


subject: Re: Fed up with home searching

text:
There's the rub: Some have lots of liquid investments but are not gainfully
employed and so won't qualify for much of a mortgage. For some, it's just hell
getting a mortgage for whatever reason. These people look for low house prices.
For some it may pay to rent another year, let interest rates rise, and let
house prices possibly fall. In the worst case, there's a fair chance their
investments will keep up with house price inflation/appreciation.

I realize this category of people is in the minority. Yet I wouldn't want to
make assumptions about the original poster that don't help him/er.

Also, while nation-wide housing price declines don't happen all that often,
they do happen locally.

Of course, I agree with the consensus here that one shouldn't be too optimistic
about house prices dropping next year.


author: Kevin Meyer

subject: Re: IBUPROFEN / ALEVE

text:
In <3l2jh3$[email]> [email] (PerrinCL)
writes:

I took Aleve a couple months ago... gave me stomach cramps like you
wouldn't believe.  My doc THEN told me that it was a known but rather
unpublicized side-effect, affecting about 5% of users.  Never again...


subject: Re: IBUPROFEN / ALEVE

text:
That's terrible that you had a bad effect from Aleve.  I just wanted to
post that I LOVE the stuff, especially not having to take anything
repeatedly.  Works great for me.


author: PerrinCL

subject: Re: IBUPROFEN / ALEVE

text:
* That's terrible that you had a bad effect from Aleve.  I just wanted
* to post that I LOVE the stuff, especially not having to take
* anything repeatedly.  Works great for me.

That's the reason that there are over 20 NSAID's (prescription) in the
USA, and even more in other countries. One that works for one person
causes horrible heartburn in another.

I haven't had any Aleve experience, but I know my father tolerates
Naprosyn moderately well. (He has too much joint damage from too many
years.)

DEFINITION: SneakerNet, "moves files by Just Doing It."


author: Oliver Steinmeier

subject: Re: IBM PCMCIA fax/modem/network interface card-$75 now!

text:
[follow-ups directed to comp.sys.laptops]

In article <[email],
david white  <[email]> wrote:

David,

I bought the card for two reasons: two have a spare modem (I already have
a 28.8 PCMCIA modem) and to be able to play around with network OSes
in the future when I get a desktop in addition to the notebook.

I've tested the modem part of the card under OS/2 Warp, and didn't have
any problems getting it to work.  I've had no chance to test the
ethernet part, but a friend who also got the card from Fry's had no
problems getting the card to work with Win 3.11.  As for the modem
performance, it seemed very reasonable for a 14.4 modem.

BTW, IBM also made a 14.4 modem card (no combo card) that I've
seen at CompUSA for (I think) $49.95 a little while ago.  I'd guess
that other stores have it, too.  Not sure about Fry's.  Also,
check out http://www.surplusdirect.com; they have a number of
14.4 PCMCIA modem cards in stock for $44.99 - $59.99  And if 2,400
baud is enough (as a spare modem, for example), they've an IBM
2,400 bd. PCMCIA modem for $19.99.

BTW, an numer of people asked me if this card works under Win95.
The answer is, I don't know.  I've never tried it.  I don't think it
ships with Win95 drivers (maybe P&P recognizes the card without the
need for drivers, though).  There are, however, never drivers available
from IBM.  A simple Alta Vista search will lead you to

ftp://ftp.raleigh.ibm.com/pub/products/lanprods/pcmcia/

where the 2.5 MB file etccha.zip, last modified 7/15/96, contains images
of the install and driver disks that come with the card. I am
downloading the file as we speak, so I don't know yet if there's
anything for Win95 in it.

Hope this helps.

Oliver


author: Hal Kinney

subject: English - Official language of the USA -

text:
John Doolittle from the fourth district of California is sponsoring a
bill to congress (H. J. Res. 171) that will amend the constitution to make
English the official language of the United States.

His address 1524 Longworth Building
	    Washington DC 20515

	    202 225-2511 voice phone.

I support this bill and would like someone that knows how to start a
newsgroup to do so as "English.First".

John does not have a Internet address.

If you can thing of more appropriate newsgroup to post this info please
do so and/or let me know.  Lets spread the word --.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: English - Official language of the USA -

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Hal Kinney) writes:
I see no reason to make English the offical language of the United
States.  A diminishing number of people speak English as a first
language, and given that the orignal native inhabitants of this country
and their descendants who survive speak many other languages, there is no
historical justification for this.  Even among the original Europeans who
migrated here, English was not the most widely spoken language.

It is, already, unofficially, the language of government and commerce.
Making it official will not change the growing population who speak
Spanish as a first language, to say nothing of the waves of immigrants
coming over who speak Asian, Middle Eastern and Eastern European
tongues.

In the continental USA, English already is the lingua franca.
Legislation should be devoted to more important issues.

Deborah Gordon


author: John F Shannon

text:
In article <[email]>,  <[email]> wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree with Deborah.  I would like to add that mandating
language policies that preclude the right of the individual to speak, read,
write, learn, teach, or maintain in whatever way her or his native language
has led historically to social unrest.  A couple of modern examples include
the threat of succession from Canada by the Province of Quebec due, in
part, to an Official English policy that had been in place there, and the
civil war in Sri Lanka, which resulted directly from legislation making
Singhalese the Official Language of the island.

Furthermore, those of us of Irish descent need look no further than the
shores of our ancestral homeland, where the eighteenth-century Penal Laws
(e.g., making it a crime to teach the Irish language) both led to the
decline of the use of Irish and contributed to the push for independence by
the Irish people.

Also, let's not forget that the United States is the fourth largest
Spanish-speaking country in the world.

Legislating language use has historically been bad policy.  It needs very
careful consideration prior to any move toward enactment.

John Shannon
email: [email]


text:
Legislating an official language can be an extremely delicate
decision since the exact nature of the language is undecidable.  The
English language is so fluid and contains so many levels of social
expression, phrases from "ain't" to "please pahss the buttuh" that
any attempt to legistlate an official language must also make social
decisions about exactly which layer of the English language is the
official one.  Additionally, an attempt to legislate a language as an
official medium of communication is guaranteed to stiffle the creativity
of that language.  There would have to be language police, complete
with the authority to enforce their ordinances.  What, for example,
would be the penalty for a split infinitive?  A ten dollar ticket?
Sixty days?  Pillory?
      The only possible consequence of creating an official language
is to create an entirely new class of criminals.  Why?
     -Michael


author: Kelly Shuldberg

text:
What's the point?  So that we only have to print ballots in one language?
The little communities that speak
Spanish/Chinese/Vietnamese/German/French/AnyAssortmentOfIndianLanguages
won't give a rat's ass for you legislation.  Nor should they.  The very
dignified Sen~ores who assemble at any community function and oversee it
with wit and wisdom here can speak English just fine.  Is it the official
language?  Hell, these guys don't even think Washington or the USA is the
official government.  And around here, they're damn right!  !Si no puede
hablar con la gente, con el pueblo, no puede hablar!

h. kelly shuldberg
[email]
Albuquerque, NM


text:
If English were legislated to be an official language, it would not, as
Michael hysterically suggests, mean language police or social decisions
about stratification on linguistic lines.  In Canada, which has two
official languages (French and English), I can assure you that both languages
are mangled quite regularly and without penalty.  And speaking of Canada,
Quebec separation is NOT impending because of the imposition of an
Official English policy.  On the contrary, the right to speak French in
Quebec has been guaranteed since the Quebec Act of 1774.

The purpose of the Official Languages Act brought in by Prime Minister
Trudeau in the late 60s was not to exclude other-language speakers, but
rather to allow French or English speakers to have access to governments

and courts in their own language anywhere in the country.  In fact, the
only government in Canada to enact an exclusive language policy i.e.
prohibiting the use of a language, was Quebec itself in 1974.

That said, what purpose would an official language policy have in the
States?  There it would seem to be an attempt to exclude other-language
speakers, since all government and court proceedings are already done
in English.  It's hard not to imagine racist overtones.  Certainly
exclusionary policies can be very destructive.  The Haida people were

prohibited from speaking their language (before there were any Official
Languages!) which was devestating for their culture.  As well, the French
only policy of Quebec has done a lot to irritate and enrage some English
Canadians.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words hurt more."

Brian Snell
[email]


author: Thomas Nixon

text:
In article <[email]> <[email]> writes:

English-only laws would not make it illegal to use other languages.
What it would do is make it so any type of legal document (including
voting documents) would only have to be in English.  I'm against it
for several reasons, but primarily because it makes no sense.  We
*know* that somewhere between the 3rd and the 5th generation of being
in the U.S. immigrants have lost their native language.  That is the
way it has always been.  We just tend to forget that minor fact.  My
other problem with it is the assumption that if you cannot speak
English, you are illiterate.  This has been used often, particularly
in regards to voting.

Thomas Nixon
American English Institute
California State University, Fresno


text:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've been very much in opposition to a legislated national language, but
this throws a different light on the issue.  Can I be the LC (Language
Cop)?  My philosophy would be, "Hey!  Did at least *someone* who claimed to
be an English speaker understand?"  My punishment for evildoers would be a
week in Jamaica, mon.  I would patrol the local ski areas for Texans and
Bostonians who insist that "r" is not in the English alphabet.  What does
the position pay, anyway?

h. kelly shuldberg
[email]
Albuquerque, NM


author: William Abbott

text:
In article <[email]> <[email]> writes:
[snip]

One reason to specify the official language of a nation is to specify what
language the laws are written in, what language the courts and police
speak, what languages public signs are written in, etc.

I remember one fellow I worked for complaining to me that he had gotten
a speeding ticket- turned out he couldn't read the road-side signs. He
felt it was unfair to ticket him for violating the law when he didn't
know what was required. Now he certainly should not have gotten a
license- I'm still don't understand that point. But he was fluent in
Chinese and could probably read and write well in that language. This
is an example of an official language: Whatever the traffic signs are
written in is official language.

I personally believe traffic signs should be simple, so should be in
one language. But other public info should be in as many languages as
are needed to get the point across. Except for ballots- you have to
demonstrate compentence in English to become a citizen and I don't think
non-english ballots help anyone.

I suspect that English and possibly Spanish will eventually become the
official languages of this country- but none of the Spanish speaking
immigrants I know want Spanish to be the official language. They don't
want to be stuck in a language ghetto.

I'm not bilingual, but I hope to raise my children to speak at least two
languages. My experience in Europe and Japan, where multi-lingual ability
is a given in middle class society, suggests that speaking English only
is a mistake. But only two european countries are multi-lingual- Belgum
has official French and official Netherlands languages, and of course
Switzerland has official French, German, Italian and that one other spoken
only in Switzerland. Bilingual Canada is a mess, and it isn't because of
manditory English use as one poster suggested. In all Canadian provences,
all public signs are in both English and French. In Quebec, it is illegal
to display words in English publicly, for any reason. This is a perfect
example of what not to do. Any system which prohibits the display of a specific
language is fundimentally wrong.


subject: Career episodes in CDR

text:
hi

i just wanted to ask about career episodes...

like all the career episode in CDR has to be from different projects or
it can be from same project covering totally different aspect....

and is there any duration ristriction for project ..... or it can be
anything....

please clarify this.....

regards

zak


author: Virgin

subject: Re: Career episodes in CDR

text:
Zak,

All your career episodes can be on the same project provided you cover
different aspects or explain different problem/challenge in each
episode.

Refer to Page 16, article 3.6 of IEAust Qualification Kit. It says
that your career episide might be any problem you were required to
solve. The kit does not limit you to write your episodes on different
projects.

My CDR contained different projects in each episode but I know some of
my friends who wrote all their episodes for the same project because
they had worked on only one project.

As far as duration of the project is concerned, it doesnt matter.
IEAust is actually looking into what and how you did and not the
duration of project and not even the duration of your activity. Your
episode can be on one problem that was resolved by you within one day
provided it fullfils all the professional requirements and meet all
standards that EAust has defined.

Another advice!

When I wrote my episodes, I always kept in mind that
"Attributes are not so much concerned with what you do but how you do
it."

This is written on page 12 of qualifucation kit.

I hope this helps and goodluck with your assessment!

z_zakash <member10787@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


subject: Re: Career episodes in CDR

text:
thanks for ur reply ....

actually i have finished my master degree from an australian
university... but results haven't came yet...

i have ielts score of 7.0 and above 6.0 in all four sections..

so shall i go for assesment before my results..

is it advisable to do.????

thanks again for reply...

regards

zak


subject: Mechnical Engineer Career episodes in CDR

text:
Has anyone out there completed the CDR for the Institution of
Engineers(Mechanical),Australia?
I've downloaded all the forms and background information from their
website, but would be interested in any advice from someone who has
already been though the process.
I would be happy If I could received a Mechanical Engineering CDR
Sample.
If any Person has it please send it to my
Email: [email]

Thank you for your Help
Mehdi


author: VanTheMan

subject: Re: Career episodes in CDR

text:
Hi z_zakash,

If I'm not mistaken, the qualification assessment for migration is based
on your undergraduate studies, not your master degree.

Please go through the qualification kit from IEAust properly.

Rgds,
Van


author: dargondev

subject: SPX/OEX  option data after close 07/25/02

text:
WWW.SPXTRADERS.COM

Market Commentary After Close, 07/25/02

SPX CALL VOLUME: 63016 SPX CALL OPEN INTEREST: 1014799

SPX PUT VOLUME: 88217 SPX PUT OPEN INTEREST: 1075557

SPX TOTAL VOLUME: 151233 SPX TOTAL OPEN INTEREST: 2090356

SPX LEVELS HIGH: 853.83 LOW: 816.11 CLOSE: 838.68 -4.75

OEX CALL VOLUME: 33985 OEX CALL OPEN INTEREST: 185078

OEX PUT VOLUME: 24144 OEX PUT OPEN INTEREST: 115785

OEX TOTAL VOLUME: 58129 OEX TOTAL OPEN INTEREST: 300863

OEX LEVELS HIGH: 425.62 LOW: 405.99 CLOSE: 417.30 -2.68

 What we said Wednsday "   today one of most volatile in trading history.
The intraday swing on the OEX was 35.52 points, just shy of the all time
record of 37.46 ..started with a dismal fall to NEW 5 year lows..traders
FINALLY felt prices were low enough to start "bargain hunting" among the
depressed Dow stocks.  Credit for the rally is broken among many factors..
JP Morgan and  Citigroup recovered large chunks of their earlier losses
after management, with some cooperation from  Standard & Poor's, offered
hope to traders that their vulnerability.. from Enron was much less  signs
that progress is being made on a major reform bill that could soon be sent
to George Bush.  also like the photos of the  Adelphia executives in
handcuffs. also hope that other executives may soon join them in the
docket..today was a good day for traders but don't forget the massive gain
after the Fourth of July and how fleeting it was.  We liked what we saw
today.. further suggests a bottom has been found but we still have to put
two positive days in a row if we are going to offer any hope to the few
traders left..Thursday has volatility written all over it. expect some early
profit taking ..BIG question becomes if small traders think the time has
come to FINALLY start buying stocks again.  " Well. not quite a banner day
but also not a terrible one despite the small loss at the close.  What
traders should focus on is that support testing is coming much faster than
in the past and that was what we saw today.  From an overall point of view
the indices did not do bad at all.  We had close to a 20 OEX point swing
today but only close down less than 3 points.  Putting it another way the
markets managed to hold on to about 90% of yesterday's huge gains in spite
of sharp bottom testing.  There were so many currents hitting the street it
would be impossible to say what had the most impact.  However, from our own
point of view, we would vote for the congress passing the reform bill and
Bush's statement he would sign it.  We like the fact it is a bill with real
teeth and look forward to the requirement for INSTANT notification of
executives selling stock.  This would have made a big difference in some of
our own holdings :-(

What we did while we were gone and then today: We managed to get of qty 20
of the OEX $500 calls at a raw $0.50 this morning to balance out our
holdings.  Then the volatility held us back, along with key missing strike
levels, from any of our candidate OEX put & call spreads.

What we will do tomorrow:     We think this Friday will be the key to this
being a bottom or not.  A positive close will be VERY good.  In fact we will
go so far to say that any decent rally on Friday could see a MAJOR rally on
Monday.  Let traders go into the weekend with signs of a real bottom and you
could see people spending the weekend convincing themselves that now is
finally the time to get back into the market.  If enough people come to this
conclusion around the BBQ this weekend we may latter point to next week as
the start of a slow recovery.  Then again let some new scandal hit the
street and all of our recent gains go up in smoke!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


author: Truong

subject: FS:  Lantastic 6.0 single user retail version

text:
Lantastic 6.0 single user package.  Full retail version.
In shrinkwrap.

3 at $30 each + shipping/cod.  Get all three and I will pay for
UPS ground shipping.

Chris


author: NR

subject: Re: all fat people can lose weight

text:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

"Sharon Curtis, 280 pounds" <[email]> oinked in message
news:9k3hio$sqc$[email]...
<SNIP>

I cannot make this shit up!  You also probably spend half your time
coasting too.

Arre you still claiming to be fit and fat?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: N/A

iQA/AwUBO2YY1jL3IlvsWvnjEQIzuQCgpk+0F4NrYYuBUu5jEeip6mH2NpMAoPr3
usbt2CmjMqSePFsXxyafePTU
=4i4h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


author: YourBuddy!

subject: Re: all fat people can lose weight

text:
"NR" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
claiming
And Sharon is a PhD. Unbelievable. I'm sure she would say one gets more
benefit out of walking 5 miles than running 5 miles... It's hard to believe
that someone of her obvious intelligence can be so ignorant on such a simple
matter. Then again, plenty of highly educated people smoke and abuse drugs,
too.....


author: dahammel

subject: Re: all fat people can lose weight

text:
Depends what you mean by "benefit".  If you mean increasing factors related
to aerobic capacity, you're probably right, running is "better".  But if
you're a bodybuilder cutting for a contest where every bit of muscle lost is
a problem, or a powerlifter who could give a damn about increasing aerobic
factors, and wants to maintain a high 1RM Squat, you're wrong.  Keep in mind
this was cross-posted to m.fitness.weights, too.

d.


subject: Re: all fat people can lose weight

text:
"dahammel" <dahammel"nospam"@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:v6lc7.58048$[email]...
related
is
mind
Since we're dealing with the issue of morbidly obese people, fat loss is the
primary concern. Intense cardio and interval training would be better for
fat loss than a long slow walk.


author: Akash

subject: Referrals for Singapore

text:
We have decided to introduce web pages to our website to enable us to
refer to you, products and services offered by organizations and
corporate entities with impeccable credentials.  These maybe of some
interest and use to you in Singapore.  As our website pertains to
Investment Management, we have chosen referrals from the categories
of  Automobiles,  Business,  and  Finance & Insurance.

We would recommend them; and you are welcome to avail of them as per
your requirements and needs.

A detailed listing of referrals pertaining to Singapore maybe read at:

http://www.narachinvestment.com/referrals_for_Singapore.htm

(You may click on the link above or type the complete URL address into
your browser)


author: Naboth the Jezreelite

subject:
Re: china wholesale cheap jordan air force ones shoes
	(WWW.GLOBNIKESNEAKERS.COM) discount gucci prada chanel miumiu handbag

text:
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15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
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author: Grahame Olney

subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
huge....

In contrast to all the free advice you'll get here... I know something
about it. :)  I'm an electrical engineer that has ~25 years of
experience in product development and design for applications
involving intelligent system controllers. I went to grad school to
learn business, earned two degrees there and started my own company.
Initially we did non-commercial electronic product development for
other companies - I used that to finance my own product design which
we now manufacture and sell for a special niche market.

So I've done it all, within the scope of your question. :)

- - -

First, an idea is only any good if you can get it to market. The idea
alone won't bring you much reward unless you really control the idea
to market transistion. The odds are extremely against you. The only
things that overcome the odds are KNOWLEDGE and money. Money is less
good because it gets can consumed whether or not your are progressing.

Great! You have an idea you believe in.

Read some books on entrepreneurship and see what you think of that -
you say business is not your thing but product development may be.
That doesn't exclude you yet.

The first thing you need to do before some crook convinces you to
spend money, is to learn whether or not your idea is really good to
someone that would know. I call this step, "SANITY CHECKING".

Until you get the confirmation or some encouragement by someone that
knows more, don't waste your time getting ahead with anything else...
that's just dreamwork.

You need to compose a NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) that will protect
your idea should you find the person you can share it with for
evaluation. You can probably find some starters online.

Some guidelines:

(1) Don't choose someone near your intended market, they'll just steal
the idea and do it themselves with plausible deniability.

(2) Find someone BUSY, too busy to take on a new project like yours
and cheat you to market. :)

(3) Find someone that is reasonably informed on the general
electronics involved (imagery you said) but that doesn't work in that
field directly.

(4) Some would suggest you get someone who'll volunteer but legally
its better if you pay them for an expressed contract to analyze the
idea's feasibility. You don't want to pay them much, take a pro bono
volunteer but make it a commercial contract to lock it in. This helps
you document your revelation to that person.

To be perfectly honest, you may or may not have a good idea no matter
how much you believe in it. Enthusiasm can do many things but it won't
make a bad idea good.

A major piece of technology requiring significant amount of money is
bad news. It makes it all the more unlikely you can do it yourself. It
is more likely the domain of large corporations and they have their
own developers for that sort of thing.

Ideas are seldom really unique. Lots of people know the same basic
information and innovative ideas tend to form spontaneously in various
locations, being simply ripe for the conditions of knowledge and
technology. What this means is there is a very good chance that if
your idea is really a good one, its already been done in several
companies' R&D labs and they're just waiting for better technology or
a bigger market to develop.

Patents are worthless. This is arguable but it is the real truth.

I assumed from reading your message that you envision selling your
idea or capturing it legally for licencing. Most companies don't need
to license ideas, they can work around patents and improve processes
to avoid this.

Mike Turco can tell you about his experiences in the licensing
field... I'm not one that thinks highly of licensing.

One thing to consider is that when you sell the same idea over and
over to various companies, what are they really buying? Most companies
will consider buying something that they can exclude their competition
from getting.

-Grahame Olney


subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
Another choice that might fit your situation better would be to
investigate "Company Incubators" offered by some universities. They
help you get an indea rolling but they take a hugh percentage of the
venture stock. They'll often assign student volunteers to help develop
it and get some business students to help with the office chores.

I think my university wanted 30% to 40% and that was a deal breaker.


author: Mike Turco

subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
"Grahame Olney"

I was just about to hop in here, so thanks for the invite :)

Ken,

A lot of people have great ideas that go nowhere. Nothing personal, it seems
to me that you are headed in this direction. You have no knowledge in the
field, no ability to create a prototype, no idea of who might be interested
in making this thing, no idea whether the same device and/or something
cheaper and better is out there (regardless of your research into a field
that you do not know), and based on the above there is nobody who will give
you any money short of a relative or someone like that (which they would
lose, for sure).

But, that doesn't make the situation hopeless, because you can always find
something else to do. I suggest you learn more about the field of inventing,
and also take some shop classes or electronics classes, or something like
that. The fact that you've studied sculpture is a GOOD thing, because you
have a base from which to work in building prototypes.

Generate ideas that you can build, for use in markets that you know and
understand. Build prototypes. Learn about patents (which for the most part a
worthless, but not always). Study up on licensing.

Inventing is day-and-night work, and most people who venture into the field
end up losing their shirts (and their homes). The same goes for being self
employed in most professions, but your chances of making it as an inventor
are much lower they would be when compared to other types of businesses you
can run on your own.

The reason I've been able to license products is because as I was working as
a consultant, I found companies who had a need for a specific kind of
technology, that they could sell into their existing market. Even then, this
whole ordeal has been a harrowing experience. But still . . . I'm hooked,
and I'm working on yet another project.

In terms of resources for you: before you buy books, spend some time online.
Its cheaper and more convenient. Go to google and read the archives of
alt.inventors. Go to http://www.uspto.gov , http://inventored.org ,
http://willitsell.com , http://money4ideas.com and http://tenonline.org .
That's a pretty good start!

In terms of ideating and selling your ideas, you can't do it. But if you
come up with something that fits a need (that people will pay for), and you
build a prototype, and convince a company to manufacture the product and
give you a royalty, then there you go! There isn't a lot of hope in terms of
making a living at doing this kind of thing, but there is some. Hey, I'm
doing it, and you can too.

Good Luck!

Mike Turco
http://miketurco.com


author: Ken Tozier

subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
Engineering knowledge? Marketing knowledge? Legal knowledge? Or all of the
above?

I'm not sure I follow this one. Pay a pro bono volunteer? What would be a
resonable amount for a feasibility study? Feasibility in the sense of
finding suitable manufacturers? Or feasibility in the sense that the idea is
possible?

I certainly don't lack for enthusiasm on this one. It's DEFINITELY a good
idea. I know I'd want to own one :)

Then again ... look what happened to the much hyped "Ginger"...

This much I do know. About the best I could hope for on my own is to create
a crude prototype that simulates what the device will do, show this
simulation to some engineers who could design the real thing and then take
those designs to a suitable manufacturer to make it.

This is definitely a possibility. My research has revealed that some of the
major peices of this idea are already finished products and the parts that
haven't made it out of the lab yet are currently under investigation. My
only real contribution is in seeing a way to combine several disparate parts
into something very cool.

I had a feeling that was the case.

Assuming it passes the "Sanity test", and I can actually get some engineers
to design the real thing, would outsourcing the manufacturing "capture it
legally"? I know Apple does and I'm sure many many other companies require
strict NDAs so this would seem to be the strongest position I could possibly
get.

Thanks, your suggestions were very helpful. Got me thinking...

Ken


author: Philip Allum

subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
In article <[email]>, Grahame Olney <not-
[email]> writes
snip
I don't agree.

A patent might be worthless in as much as your competitors will
eventually find a way round it but if you want to raise money, that will
be the only way to go.

Most inventors/developers are afraid that someone will steal their idea.
A patent application will buy you some breathing space to develop it.
It won't be published immediately and your protection will be backdated
to the date of filing.

More importantly, a potential investor will be more frightened that you
are about to steal his money (by doing a deal with him and going to the
next person with an identical offer, for example) than you will be about
having your ideas pinched.   If you have a patent, the investor is
buying into something tangible.


subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
In other words, set up the deal as pro bono and at the last minute
tell them you'd at lest like to give them $100 or $50 for a nice meal.
He'll think its nice and you'll get better legal coverage. Mind you
I'm not an attorney and don't give legal advice. You'd simply have a
contract that involved an exchange as opposed to a favor done
unilaterally by one to the other which is real hard to define as a
contract.

A crude prototype might not be of any value. Only finance people would
think a cardboard model means anything, engineering and manufacturing
would only be impressed with a "proof-of-concept" prototype which
would more likely be some electronics running the subsystems though
not likely to be computing the sparkle end-product affect.

Such prototypes are not bound by the dimensions of the envisioned
end-product; in other words it can be big, rely upon PC computers to
temporarily do things done by intelligent controller circuit boards
later, and it doesn't have to do more than test the basic idea.

I built a "proof-of-concept" circuit board for my product line. I had
a large power supply half the size of a showbox and some plexiglax
plates with a wire-wrapped circuit board attached. All this was
mounted on a peice of plywood and to make it Office Friendly, I added
four rubber adhesive pads underneath. :)

What did it prove? (1) It showed that the designer (me) understood the
technology and could collect the data claimed. (2) It showed that I
had some tradesecret way to calculate something generally thought
uncalculable in such an inexpensive circuit. (3) It showed that I
could demonstrate the man-machine interface that was the primary
selling point (i.e. the customers don't care how its done as long as
they get what they need). (4) It showed that I could put the
technology together at the stated cost-to-build.

Often that is the innovation that even surprises the engineers.

A few words on manufacturing: This is the best age for
entrepreneurs... You can outsource everything. You are not burdened
with manufacturing it yourself, the costs of equipment, facilities,
and labor. Granted there are things that can go wrong in this process,
but that's where expertise helps out.

With the exception of one programmer posting in these channels,
contracted designers don't retain the rights to the work they do for
your specification. Anyone that attempts to dictate terms should be
laughed at and dismissed.

If you have a family or friend that can help out in progressing the
project, it would help. It can appear like an endless pirade of
Murphy's Law if you're not careful. We engineers are paid to combat
"Murphies" but its a tiresome job at times. If you progress your
innovation, you'll look back at amazement of how many things tried to
go wrong. :)

Good luck.

-Grahame Olney


subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
"Philip Allum" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Philip,

Patents cost thousands of dollars. As you mention, patents are useful in
some ways. But you need a lot more to go on before you make an investment of
that magnitude.

Keep this in mind: the only right a patent gives you is the right to keep
other companies from making your product. That's all!

I say: don't bother patenting anything unless you have a solid, proven,
licensable product, with investors and/or licensees ready to move.

SO many people waste SO much money on patents and never make a dime. Its a
shame.

For all other purposes, a provisional application for patent (PAP) will do.
(IANAL and this is not legal advice!)

Mike

P.S. I am talking about the US patent system. I have no idea how this stuff
patent works in other countries.


subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
See above. This is the arguable part. :)

Apparently not. People that want to keep competitive advantages use
tradesecrets and take the necessary actions to protect that
intellectual property. Patents reveal processes to the public and
while prhibiting copying (if you pay to legally fight it) patents
ENCOURAGE others to read it and FURTHER the innovation to a new
patentable state of development. This is good for society because it
promotes advancing technology. It is not good for someone that has a
great innovation and wants to make the money due him. Tradesecrets
means he continues making money and the technology doesn't advance. He
can sell sell sell and go to the bank bank bank. :)

Protecting tradesecrets is the only protection.

Every patent of mine has taken 3 to 6 months of time doing
non-productive paperwork. Good patents are complex and take a long
time for evaluation and granting. I think one of mine took four years
to grant (it was comm. encryption based). I"d submit that your time
would be better spent getting to market and making money before anyone
gets wind of your development activity.

heheheh, most patents are junk and I'd consider them intangible. The
IRS considers them intangilbe too.

As a design engineer, I WISH PATENTS WERE WORTH SOMETHING.

They aren't.

For some reason, just about every company I've been hired into as a
design engineer has assigned me to do some bit of corporate
intelligence work on the competition, and you'd be amazed of the ways
you can find out real early what is going on. It takes very little
information.

In one of the most audacious events, We (1980's company) had one of
our competitor's prototype in our lab for one day during the weekend
as it was being shipped from one of their labs to a demonstration.
Someone was kind enough to ship it to us  first during the trip. I've
been surprised over the years how many unsolicited offers of this sort
are delivered to competitors by employees.


subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
I re-read what you posted and think I have a better idea now what you
were asking. Your simulating prototype is seen as a tool to explain to
some contract engineers what you would want them to design for you -
meaning of course that you pay them and you get all the rights to the
design and the engineers go on to other clients while promising not to
disclose your idea to others and not to utilize the design to compete
or allow others to use it to compete with you.

Ok. You could do this in PowerPoint. I hate microsoft by rule, but
this is a useful tool in presentations. Your contract designer is
going to want something a little more concrete to design toward, if
for no other reason than to protect himself to ensure that the job
works to a goal and will terminate. A written specification allows
them to quote what was requested and show that they have met those
requirements. Few designers want to be caught in a situation where the
person contracting them hasn't made up his mind yet or keeps changing
the design as they go. A specification allows them some point to argue
when changes have been made from that to which they agreed to deliver.
Often this is justification for additional payment for time adjusting
or for new materials or tools required. If things change too much too
often, they'll usually want to find out how to close the contract by
adherring to the specification and accepting no further modifications.

You might increase your odds of success if you have a relative or good
friend that knows some engineering. Even if they're a mechanical
rather than electrical engineer they might be able to help out
communicating and making sure the contract designer is behaving
reasonably.

This can take a lot of money though I couldn't estimate from what's
been presented. My advise would be to stay away from companies that
claim to help inventors and such as they seem to be more about paying
them to encourage your dream until you pay them some more and more
etc.

Be real careful about teaming up with friends... choose family if
possible. Don't form partnerships, someone tends to takeover cruely.

In the meantime you should start view the business journals in the
field you are talking about. I don't know which applies but I'll post
some websites for the non-print journals that may apply.

Vision Systems Design
http://www.vision-systems.com

Design News
http://www.designnews.com

Machine Design
http://www.machinedesign.com

Laser & Optics
http://www.lasersoptrmag.com

Scientific Computing & Instrumentation
http://www.scimag.com

If you hint on a better direction, I've got about 60 others I can pick
from

-Grahame Olney


subject: Re: Startup advice needed

text:
I have no impression that this patent stuff works in other countries.
(too)