subject: Re: quirks of English

text:
John Atkinson wrote:

Actually, I don't use it myself either. I mentioned only because
I know some people who swear by it.

Anyway all these options can be easily enabled and disabled
while perusing news, to get access to the Quotefix options all one
has to do is to double-click on the Quotefix icon.

When you read posts, do the URLs recognised by the reader as URLs,
that is are they displayed in URL colour (whatever you defined in your windows)
and are they underlined (if that is what you selected in browser Windows)

Hey, I would hate that. I have no problems with clicking the URLs.
I guess, you are not using "Reformat (beta)" option.

I double-clicked on the Quickfix icon and pressed F1 to get display
the Quotefix Help screen. Half way down under Options(viewing) it
talks about reformat&URLs.

Let me know, if that doesn't fix your problem or if you are already using
the "Reformat" option.

pjk

P.S.
I just disabled the Reformat option and the URLs still keep working.
The problem must be somewhere else. It's possibly some
interaction between QFix, OE options and the browser.
Do you use a (compatible) Microsod IE browser?

The problem ought to be fixable, let me know what OE and what
browser you use and what versions they are.
OE seems to be using some of the options defined in IE,
eg the URL display colours, underlines, etc.

Send me an e-mail with attached copy of your OEQuoteFix.cfg
(it's a 2kb file, I presume it contains the selected QF options).
I can compare that to my .cfg file, to see if the options we use
differ in some subtle but meaningful way.


author: IMECS 2008

text:
Last Call for Papers (extended): The 2011 International Conference of
Applied and Engineering Mathematics (ICAEM’11)

CFP: The 2011 International Conference of Applied and Engineering
Mathematics
From: International Association of Engineers (IAENG)
Draft Paper Submission Deadline (extended): 23 March, 2011
Camera-Ready papers & Registration Deadline: 8 April, 2011
WCE 2011: London, U.K., 6 - 8 July, 2011
http://www.iaeng.org/WCE2011/ICAEM2011.html

The conference ICAEM'11 is held under the World Congress on
Engineering 2011. The WCE 2011 is organized by International
Association of Engineers (IAENG),
a non-profit international association for the engineers and the
computer
scientists. The congress has the focus on the frontier topics in the
theoretical
and applied engineering and computer science subjects. The WCE
conferences serve
as good platforms for our members and the entire engineering community
to meet
with each other and to exchange ideas. The recent IAENG conference has
attracted
more than eight hundred participants from over 30 countries. Our
congress
committees have been formed with over three hundred committee members
who are
mainly research center heads, faculty deans, department heads,
professors, and
research scientists from different universities like Cambridge,
Imperial College,
Harvard, MIT and Oxford etc.

The conference proceedings will be published by IAENG (ISBN:
978-988-18210-6-5)
in hardcopy. The full-text congress proceeding will be indexed in
major database
indexes so that it can be assessed easily. Revised and expanded
version of the
selected papers may be included as book chapters in the standalone
edited books
under the framework of cooperation between Springer, America Institute
of Physics,
and IAENG. The abstracts will be indexed and available at major
academic databases.
The accepted papers will also be considered for publication in the
special issues
of the journal Engineering Letters, in IAENG journals and in edited
books. For
reference, the recent IAENG post conference edited books include
titles like
for example: Trends in Intelligent Systems and Computer Engineering,
Advances in Communication Systems and Electrical Engineering, and
Advances in Industrial Engineering and Operations Research by
Springer, and
Current Themes in Engineering Science by America Institute of Physics.

The topics of the ICAEM'11 include, but not limited to, the
following:

Linear algebra and applications:
Matrix theory
Tensor analysis
Combinatorial linear algebra
Numerical linear analysis
Computational linear algebra
Markov chains
Iterative methods
Large-scale systems

Numerical analysis:
Numerical methods for ordinary and partial differential equation
Computational programming of numerical algorithms
Finite Elements
Scientific computing
Error analysis
Stability problems
Convergence analysis
Non-linear systems
Chaos systems
Dynamical systems
Simulation

Differential equations and applications:
Ordinary differential equations
Partial differential equations
Stochastic differential equations
Difference equations
Integral equations
Variation methods
Nonlinear systems
Perturbation problems

Probabilities and statistics:
Probability theory
Stochastic process
Applied statistics

 Mathematical statistics
Estimation Theory
Identification
Simulation

Operations Research and Optimization:
Mathematical programming
Stochastic modeling
Decision theory
Game theory
Queueing theory
Reliability theory
Routing theory
Transportation problems
Financial mathematics
Inventory control
Scheduling
Optimization theory
Linear programming
Quadratic programming
Convex programming
Nonlinear programming
Stochastic programming
Combinatorial programming

Discrete Mathematics and Control:
Methods of algorithmic analysis
Algorithms
Combinatorial problems
Graph theory
Coding
Cryptology
Signal processing
Real time systems
Network optimization
Control theory

=========
Submission:

WCE 2011 is now accepting manuscript submissions. Prospective authors
are invited
to submit their draft paper in full paper (any appropriate style) to
WCE{at}iaeng.org by 23 March, 2011. The submitted file can be in MS
Word format,
PS format, or PDF formats.

The first page of the draft paper should include:
(1) Title of the paper;
(2) Name, affiliation and e-mail address for each author;
(3) A maximum of 5 keywords of the paper.

Also, the name of the conference that the paper is being submitted to
should
be stated in the email.

It is our target that the reviewing process and the result
notification for
each submitted manuscript can be completed within one month from its
submission.
The reviewing process is to ensure the quality of the accepted papers
in the
WCE congress.

WCE Congress Co-chairs
Prof. Alexander M. Korsunsky
Professor of Engineering Science
Dean, Trinity College
Department of Engineering Science, University of Oxford, UK

Prof. Andrew Hunter
Professor & Head of Department & Head of Vision and AI Research Group
Dean of Research
Department of Computing and Informatics,
Lincoln University, UK

Prof. David WL Hukins, CPhys, FinstP, FIPEM, FRSE
Professor of Bio-medical Engineering
Head of Department of Mechanical & Manufacturing Engineering,
University of Birmingham, UK

Prof. Len Gelman (honorary co-chair)
Professor and Chair in Vibro-Acoustic Monitoring,
Chairman of the Condition Monitoring Technical Committee, the British
Institute of NDT,
Director, Centre of Vibro-Acoustics and Fatigue,
Director, International Institute of Acoustics and Vibration (USA)
Cranfield University, UK

Dr. Christopher John Hogger (honorary co-chair)
Senior Lecturer
Department of Computing
Imperial College London, UK

Prof. Darek J. Ceglarek (ICMEEM honorary co-chair)
Professor, International Manufacturing Centre, University of Warwick,
UK
Professor, Department of Industrial and Systems Engineering
The University of Wisconsin-Madison, USA
Fellow of CIRP; Associate Editor, IEEE Transactions on Automation
Science and Engineering, and ASME Transactions on Manufacturing
Science and Engineering

Dr. Stephen Payne (ICSBB honorary co-chair)
University Lecturer in BioMedical Engineering
Dean of Degrees Keble College, Head of Physiological Understanding
through Modelling, Monitoring and Analysis Group,
Department of Engineering Science, University of Oxford, UK

More details about the WCE 2011 can be found at:
http://www.iaeng.org/WCE2011/index.html

More details about the International Association of Engineers, and
the IAENG International Journal of Computer Science, and
the IAENG International Journal of Applied Mathematics can be found
at:
http://www.iaeng.org/about_IAENG.html
http://www.iaeng.org/IJCS/index.html
http://www.iaeng.org/IJAM/index.html
http://www.engineeringletters.com

********
It will be highly appreciated if you can circulate these calls for
papers to your colleagues.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Chlorella or Spirulina Your Experience

text:
On May 20, 4:25 am, Matti Narkia <[email]> wrote:

Hi Matti,

Thanks for all the info - I think I will try the high dose olive oil
and garlic for a while and see what happens.  Have just made up a
mixture of Olive oil and fresh from the earth crushed garlic, I
thought a couple of tablespoons a day in addition to the oil and
garlic which I normally eat - do you think that is enough?  Will also
try to increase my consumption of  the cabbage family, not too keen on
them, so don't think I eat enough.

Thanks for all the links, once upon a time I would have been able to
read and understand them all, but right now my concentration is not
what it once was unfortunately.  Coptidis  rhizoma, sounds interesting
I will see if it's available here, and if it is, add it to the
mountain of supplements I take.

isi


author: betsyb

text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On May 20, 4:25 am, Matti Narkia <[email]> wrote:

Hi Matti,

Thanks for all the info - I think I will try the high dose olive oil
and garlic for a while and see what happens.  Have just made up a
mixture of Olive oil and fresh from the earth crushed garlic, I
thought a couple of tablespoons a day in addition to the oil and
garlic which I normally eat - do you think that is enough?  Will also
try to increase my consumption of  the cabbage family, not too keen on
them, so don't think I eat enough.

Thanks for all the links, once upon a time I would have been able to
read and understand them all, but right now my concentration is not
what it once was unfortunately.  Coptidis  rhizoma, sounds interesting
I will see if it's available here, and if it is, add it to the
mountain of supplements I take.

isi

Sorry Matti for clipping so much.
Isi? How about frying the cabbage with olive oil, onion and garlic?
I love fried cabbage but only with the onion and I bet with garlic fresh
from the garden it would be swell.
Brown it well but not cremated.

Betsy


author: Frank Sharkey

text:
<snip with a large crunch!>
Isi:
I love Garli and cabbage. My wife makes a cabbage sald that'sout of this
world.

We use grated carrots, grated green and red cabbage, a little 2% mild,
We use lime mayo, and some sugar of honey if you prefer. mix it together
  refrigertae for a day. It's great and no Gas! If you'd like the exact
recipe I ask my wife today and get it out to you. I'm not the bigest
cabage fan either except for Saurkraut! That great on Hot Dogs or
sausage! That will make you a little gasie.  Also cottage cheese.

Here's a recipe that's good.
Pineapple Coleslaw!
3/4 cup mayo any type
2 tablespoons vinegar. agin any type you like
2 tablespoons sugar (we use white)
1-2 table spoons milk Any type
4 cups shredded cabbage
1 can (8 Ouces) Pineapple tidbits well drained

Mix all ingreidents together chill for 4 -6 hrs
Yelid 8 servings

Also anything that is a dark green in Vegies is to support good health
while fighting cancer.

If you want more recipes let us know
Frank & Nashira ( My wife)


author: JPaul

subject: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
From:
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=516

Book Review:
Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude

By Robert Baer
Crown Publishers, 226 pages, 2003

Reviewed by Scott D. O'Reilly

The Middle East is a land of strange bedfellows. In Sleeping with the
Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude , author Robert
Baer, a former CIA operative, uncovers an unseemly menage-a-trois
involving Islamic terrorists, the Saudi Royal family, and Washington
insiders. It's as sordid a tale as one is likely to hear. And if Baer
is right the stain Saudi crude has left on our political system is far
more sullied than the blue dress that led to Bill Clinton's
impeachment.

<snip>


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
We Don't NEED no Steenkin' OIL!!

Electronic electricity repository is an energy concept that aims to accumulate
and store electrical energy from any source.  The storage would be intended to
accommodate such things as electric vehicles, home heating, etc.  The best
example is the EV - an electric car that would run on an ever-accumulating
power source.  That is to say, any and all sources of electrical energy --
including diffuse sources -- would be collected, combined and stored in the
form of capacitance.  But, wouldn't the capacitor plates be bigger than the
vehicle?  Well, yes they would, unless a way to increase the surface area of
the plates *within a small perimeter* could be fashioned.  The plates (and the
dielectric) *must* match exactly, to gain optimum charge.  I suggest that
Scanning Tunneling Microscope Technology, or possibly even nanotechnology be
used to accomplish this -- whatever could configure roughly halfway to the
molecular level.  Doing this -- configuring massive surface area within a small
perimeter -- is the heart of eer.  It could involve steps, or grooves to 'tuck'
the surface areas away.  BTW, this would necessarily require a *much* stronger
dielectric, which admittedly is taken on faith - but it could be many years
away.
The object is to configure the plates and dielectric so they all fit like
Jell-O in a mold, and to make these all small in perimeter -- while yielding
enormous surface area.  That way, it is hoped, enough charge could be stored to
run an EV.  Further, it is expected that about 15 sources of renewable energy
(solar, wind, wave, etc.) would be able to contribute to the 'eer pool' of
stored electrical energy.  In time, renewable energy stored in this way could
effectively replace fossil fuels and batteries for vehicles.
The renewable sources need not necessarily have a device actually *on* the
vehicle; it is anticipated that such renewable devices could be located, say,
in or on a garage, and the electric charge transferred to the vehicle when
required.
I ask you -- with the advent of electric cars, might not this concept (if it
worked) pretty much end our dependence on oil?

NOTE: This idea absolutely, in no way, breaks the Second Law!  No more than a
12v car battery does.

Frank Lincoln
[email]
[email]
[email]

PS: In case you hadn't noticed, I am VERY weak with computers.

More, if you like..........

This is no more than a guess from a novice

Extra crispy revised edition......there are some mistakes in here

In one sentence, I am saying that a very, very advanced capacitor is possible,
and would accommodate most of the energy problems we have today -- basically it
would do the job that the energy function of oil now does.

An energy concept

Yes, there is a 21st Law of Thermodynamics.  That is no knock on Faraday, just
a reference to the 21st century, and the new technology it has brought.

Simply stated, it is, "No energy concept involving renewables shall ever be
considered unless the word 'diffuse' is used, understood, and taken into
consideration."

Faraday could not have seen this coming.  In his day, there was not the
multitude of diffuse renewable energy sources available, which can be converted
to electricity.

If human beings are ever to use renewable, natural energy sources, they will
have to take into consideration the diffuse nature of sunlight, wind, wave,
etc.  I was actually surprised to find that Faraday, himself, used the word
"diffuse" in his writings.  But, this was in reference to the spread of charge
on capacitor plates, and not the UN-concentrated free energy that is available
today for conversion to electricity.

There is NO way around this Law.  By that, I mean that there in no way around
solving the "diffuse problem," before we are able to put renewable energy
sources to work in any effective way.

A goal......an idea......a prediction.......energy is easy........ there is no
crises.

We don't need oil.
We don't need batteries.
We don't need internal combustion engines.
We don't need fusion.
We don't need hybrids.
We don't need hydrogen-powered cars.
We don't need ethanol.
We don't need natural gas.
We don't need methane.
We don't even need efficiency.
We don't even need conservation.

All we need are the renewable energy sources that God - in His infinite wisdom
-- provided us.

Some could be used, some not.  For a while.  Eventually renewable energy
sources would be all we would need to power our EV's, and heat our homes.  We
would have the luxury of choice, while at the same time powering our EV's with
them.  All of them.  Any of them.  As long as they are able to generate any
amount of electricity.

To those who have read this before, and may have rejected it out of hand, let
me say that it is my strong belief that two major companies may be engaged in
pretty much the basic idea presented here. They have patents - I do not. In no
way do I - nor will I - attempt to claim any right whatsoever to this idea --
even though all my writing on it came from my own independent thinking for over
12 years. I wish them well. But, in case I am wrong about that effort being
made, I surely wish some interested party would help me connect this to the
people in government who say they want an energy solution. What they are
looking for is contained on this letter. I am THAT confident.

Note: I can see EER powering an automobile.  That is almost a lock, in my mind.
 Further applications are, perhaps, a little harder to deal with.  Once a car
IS powered by EER, then all the entrepreneurs will take the rest to the logical
conclusion.  For the most part, EER will be discussed in terms of an electric
vehicle.

EER in Brief

Electronic Electricity Repository (EER) is merely a concept at this time. There
is no business, no patent, and no money involved with this.

This involves solid state capacitors as a usable energy storage device for
electric vehicles, and other items. Conventional wisdom limits capacitors to
power surges, and the like. The full text of this concept will suggest a way to
make them fully competitive with the internal combustion engine, while not
violating the laws of energy density.

The easiest way to explain it is to use an electric vehicle as an
example. To power an EV with EER, an array of electronic devices --
perhaps solid-state capacitors, perhaps another device -- would
contain the electrical charge accumulated from a variety of sources
of electricity. Renewable energy sources are suggested, but *any*
source of electricity would work. With the questionable future of
battery-powered EV's, and fusion as an energy source, and the political debate
about fossil fuels, there are strong reasons to take a look at EER.

In fairness, many say it cannot be done. But, perhaps another war
-- or avoiding one -- could put the right minds to work on this concept. It
*would* provide a way to be independent of foreign oil, while providing a
structure for the transition to renewable forms of energy to power EV's - or
any other device powered by electricity.

This is merely a shell of an idea, but perhaps some further thought could help
bring it about.

Frank Lincoln....72430,[email]
**************************************************************************
**************************

A TRIP TO THE STORE IN AN EER POWERED EV

Let's suppose that the EER concept is fully developed, and built
into an electric vehicle. Let's also suppose that the newest and best
technological devices -- some of which are now being used in EV's - are
integrated into the vehicle's design. What follows is a description
of what might possibly have happened during an everyday trip to the store
in such a vehicle. (This assumes the use of an *advanced* solid-state
capacitor).
Ms. Jones notices her "fuel gauge" as she starts her vehicle; it
tells her that her microchip capacitor battery is 85% full. This means
that of the vast number of microchip capacitors in her "battery," 85% are
charged with their very small electric capacitance.
She proceeds to the store, and returns home -- a quarter mile
trip. As she pulls in her driveway, she looks again at her gauge. It
reads 84%. She thinks that she used only 1% of her battery capacity for
her trip.
But, she is wrong.
She used 10% of her available charged capacitors for the quarter
mile trip. So, why didn't her gauge read 75% when she returned?
There were several devices built into her vehicle which were
replenishing used capacitors, almost as fast as she was using them. (All
figures below are guesses -- just to make the point.)

1. The advanced solar panel on the roof of her vehicle was, as
always during sunlight, continuously recharging at a slow, but
steady rate. Because she had happened to drive and park in
the sunlight, the solar panel recharged 5% of her capacitors.
2. The air scoops arranged in her vehicle's design -- although
accounting for some drag -- were directing the air through
small dynamos, which recharged another 2%.
3. The regenerative brakes on all four wheels replenished another
2% of the capacitors.

So, she did, in fact, use 10% of the available capacitor charges,
but 9% were replaced by the activity of her trip.
This is nothing like perpetual motion; it is merely taking
advantage of the natural surrounding energy to replenish the energy
spent on the trip.
It is even conceivable that her "fuel gauge" might have read a
higher percentage upon her return; a shorter trip on a windier and
sunnier day, in a more sunlit route and parking spot, and many more
occasions to use the brakes, might have made that possible. The Second
Law of Thermodynamics is not violated, because energy from outside the
vehicle was being absorbed along the way.
It is noted that a battery-powered EV could have done much the
same, but the weight difference would have changed the percentages, so
as to defeat the purpose.
Frank Lincoln CS# 72430,2407
**************************************************************************
**************************

It is understood that high energy density is something that has been sought for
many years -- the concept is nothing new. What is suggested here is the
possibility that modern technology may now be in the position to actually
attain it -- to a degree that could combine the many energy sources (new and
old) into a common pool.

GIVEN:
- Trench capacitors, at the present time, have nowhere near the capability to
deal with the degree of energy that would be required in Electronic Electricity
Repository.
- The area of the plates in a trench capacitor will, for the most part,
determine the capacitance -- not exclusively, but this is the factor that is
dealt with here as having the most potential for improvement. It is assumed
that progress in the other factors -- dielectric strength, dielectric
composition, etc., will continue, and will accommodate the supposition of
surface area increase made here.

HYPOTHESIS:
- The surface area of a trench capacitor plate can be greatly increased without
increasing the perimeter, or the space required to store the capacitor.
- Etching a groove on the plate surface will do this, to a small degree, and it
is done, to some extent, today. What is surmised, here, is that, as the
technology allows, many cross-grooves could be etched *within* the first
groove. Then, with increasing precision, these cross-grooves could, in turn, be
cross-grooved. And, then those cross-grooves cross-grooved. Each successive
cross-grooving would be progressively smaller - magnitudes smaller. This could
be repeated until the molecular level was reached -- each time increasing the
surface area of the plate, and thus the capacitance. An inexact estimate of the
number of times it could be repeated is 26. It is surmised that each groove,
cross-groove, and, etc., would be matched by a ridge, a cross-ridge, and, etc.,
on the opposite plate, with corresponding shapes for the dielectric. The
resulting configuration would yield a perfectly matching set of plates
(sandwiching an appropriately shaped, and expectedly advanced dielectric). Such
a configuration and material composition may not be possible at this time, but
the direction of efforts in their respective technologies may lead to their
development in the very near future. This concept is put forth in
*anticipation* of those developments.
- In theory, each successive etching would substantially increase the area of
the plates, and thus the capacitance *without increasing their size*, their
perimeter, or the volume of space needed for them. Again, the only barrier
seems to be at reaching the molecular level, after each groove is re-grooved,
perpendicularly, and then THAT groove is re-grooved, etc. This would take
advantage of all the "inner space" available between the plate surface, and the
molecular level. (Understand that in place of "etching," Scanning Tunneling
Microscope Technology might be applied -- or even nanotechnology, if that ever
becomes reality. The point is to configure the grooves -- by whatever method.)

BENEFITS:
- An almost endless storage system for electricity.
- A way to store electricity from *any* source, from renewables to a wall
socket.
- A possible solution to the search for a better power plant for electric
vehicles.
- A structure within which to make the conversion from fossil fuels to
renewables.
- A way to accumulate the "trickle" of the many forms of renewable energy, and
combine and store them in a practical way; a way that could give strength to
the many "weak" and diffuse renewable energy sources.
An attempt to generally suggest HOW to accomplish EER will be made; this will
be based on the feedback received so far on this concept. For the most part,
feedback has come from various forums in CompuServe. All major objections will
be mentioned, and a way around each one will be suggested.
ENERGY DENSITY - This appears to be the leading objection to EER. In the
strongest terms, it is postulated, here, that there is no sacred or permanent
universal limit to energy density -- there are only hurdles. There *are* limits
to present materials and there *are* limits to a given geometry, but no
universal scientific boundary that would stand forever and always. There are
certainly physical limits to the materials *now* being used, but, this concept
of EER does, indeed, depend upon progress in this area -- improvements in
materials are bound to happen. Unless human progress is at its maximum, there
is reason for such an expectation. Especially since -- many say -- technology
is doubling every day with computer technology, and since many of the best
resources in the world are focused on this type of science. (If anything like
this concept of EER ever happens, it will be as a natural development of such
materials -- and NOT a result of this effort; that is quite thoroughly
understood.)
It is suggest here that even without improvements in dieletrics, there may be
opportunity to vastly improve their capability with the one factor -- geography
of the plates.

Just as computers changed everything about information, some form of EER may
change the way energy is dealt with. The suggestion, above, regarding etching
grooves in trench capacitor plates, and then etching those grooves, etc., is
offered as a possible way to provide the structure that would enable a
monumentally higher energy density, than has ever been achieved. If the
geometry of the plates is configured as suggested here, and they are
identically wrinkled, it is expected that a very high energy density could be
achieved by taking advantage of the inner space. The accumulation of a massive
repelling force between plates is a problem for which no answer will be
attempted here. But, mechanics aside, it appears that developing technology
will, indeed, provide the tools necessary to configure the plates.

CAPACITOR LEAKAGE - Two points here: 1) Leakage in trench capacitors is not
nearly as big a problem as it was a few short years ago -- holding a charge for
an electric vehicle, for example, would be well within the cycle of usage. In
other words, an EV would be expected to be used often enough to use the charges
before they have time to leak. 2) The percentage of loss due to leakage could
logically be offset by overloading the capacitor bank by a like percentage.
This is somewhat of a built-in inefficiency, but in time, wouldn't the leakage
problem be expected to continue to improve?

ARCHING - The concern about electrical arching between the extremely small
dimensions created by the etching and re-etching can only be explained away by
a layman in this way: the extremely small dimensions would occur between parts
of the same plate - and *not* between the opposing plates. The surfaces of the
two plates would remain equidistant over the entire area. It is expected that
the extremely small dimensions would mainly occur between points on the same
plate, at the same potential -- and, thus, no arching would be anticipated.

ATOMIC LEVEL - In a pretty thorough analysis in the LEAP forum, it was
indicated that "the whole idea of a capacitor thus breaks down as we approach
atomic dimensions." (The following assumes abilities predicted by some as to
etching, Scanning Tunneling Microscope Technology, atomic force microscope,
lithography, or other methods.)  If you make one groove (G1) in a capacitor
plate, that certainly does not approach atomic dimensions, yet it does increase
the surface area of the plate (without increasing its perimeter). Then, if you
go back and make another groove (G2) WITHIN G1's SURFACE, you are closer -- but
still not near the atomic level. Then if the surface of G2 is etched (or STM'd)
with G3, you are closer yet; closer -- but still a long way from the atomic
level. How far?  Well, the number 26 seems to hold up as the number of times
you could re-etch grooves, before you hit bottom.
(Each successive etching step would be, say, a hundred times smaller than the
previous one. G3 is a hundred times smaller than G2. G2 is a hundred times
smaller than G1, and etc. G26 would be the smallest, and would begin to enter
atomic dimensions.)
Now, backing up, let's say you made a hundred tiny grooves on the surface of
the original plate -- so you have 100 G1's. Within each G1, you etch 100 much
smaller G2's. Within each G2 you etch 100 G3's, which are yet, again, much
smaller. This is a million grooves at the 3rd of 26 steps. If you could
continue on in this way for 26 re-groovings of the grooves, how many grooves
would you have at the 26th step? And, by how much would you have increased the
surface area of that plate? And how much more dipole moment effect would now
take place? And how much more ability to hold charge would you have? If the
number 26 makes you cranky, stop at 20, or 12.
The point is this: there is a tremendous amount of "inner space" available
*before* you reach atomic level. Perhaps an optimum number could be safely
reached. Even 12 would seem to provide a monumental increase in charge storage
ability. Subject to mathematicians' scrutiny, there may be 10^24 grooves, when
you are only halfway down to atomic level, and free of the terrible things that
happen there. At the halfway point, you have monumentally increased the surface
area, without threatening stability. Assuming that the dielectric follows the
shape of the plate exactly, have you not vastly increased the number of
molecules subject to polar realignment in the electric field? Could it be said
that, even though the individual dipole moments would stay at the same in
magnitude, there is an opportunity to create a tremendously larger number of
them, by taking advantage of the inner space available?

MASS PRODUCTION - Some of these techniques to reform very small structures are
very slow and very expensive. Some question was raised as to their adaptability
to a mass production situation. As with any change in technology, first efforts
are not usually efficient. But there seems to be enough advantages to EER so
that the forces of supply and demand would push the costs down. Once in the
competitive market, improvements in technique could be expected.

GROOVES TOO SMALL? - A statement made in one of the forums was, "There is a
limit to how small the grooves can be before they don't work any more." As this
was from a good source, it is taken seriously. If some of the logic, above,
doesn't account for this, there may be difficulty, here.

DISCHARGE TIME - Capacitors normally discharge very quickly, so wouldn't they
make a rather bad storage device? No detailed answer will be attempted, here,
but can't this be controlled with a very low discharge current, with a high
resistance?

Electricity is -- or can be -- the common denominator for all energy sources,
from solar to hydro. It is for exactly this reason that EER could employ each
and every energy source. All the new renewable technology could be "fed" into
EER - without exception. Yet, at the same time, conventional sources could
contribute to it -- every drop of oil and every lump of coal on this planet
could be used, purposely. Could this captured energy not then be put to use, as
needed, and when needed, by controlling the energy bursts to simulate
conventional electricity flow?

*******************

The technology that would be needed for EER *seems* to be within sight - with
some faith required, perhaps, for the materials. Basically, it is the ability
to sculpt materials at the molecular level which brought about this revised
approach to EER. I have never seen the etching process, nor STM; this whole
concept of extremely small sculpting to obtain extremely high surface area is
drawn from my imagination -- and the little I have read about these processes.
I am motivated by the extreme advantages that would come about, and the
apparent ability to accomplish this; if not on a production basis, then at
least on a prototype basis, to start. I'm certain there are still technical
errors in this effort -- it is hoped that the general idea was communicated
with some adequacy. This *seems* possible - or within reach - to me, and it
*seems* as though it would bring about profound benefits, and it *seems* to me
that it is a logical way to approach energy at this point in time.

But, I defer to the experts.
**************************************************************************
**************************

I have no patent on this idea. My motivation is not monetary.

I understand that this could not be done today, because of limits on existing
dieletrics, and perhaps other items. My position is that EER is not impossible,
given advances in some technologies.

Please respond by Email
or call at (248) 288-3459
[email]
Frank Lincoln

Please keep in mind that EER would allow energy from any and all sources to be
stored and combined in such a way that an electric vehicle could, at some later
time, be powered by it.

Separating a steel sample using a tensile tester could be useful in EER.

The jagged edges could be cut off, just past their breakpoint. Call these two
pieces of jagged metal our capacitor plates. The broken pieces are matched
molecular for molecule. If a dielectric is molded between the two jagged ends,
the fit could not be better. "d" is maintained. The area of the matching jagged
edges is much, much more than the cross section of the steel sample. We then
have matching capacitor plates without using STM to configure all the surfaces.

Note: EER may not solve all energy problems, but in my opinion, it could
certainly power personal vehicles.

Anyone who receives this is free to publish.

[email]
[email]


author: "Don W."

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"JPaul" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=516

...and this has WHAT to do with science, energy or hydrogen?

Don W.


author: Roland Paterson-Jones

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Don W." <dNOSPAMwiddersAThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email]...
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=516

Don (W), you still have to apologise publicly for your conviction that WMD's
were present in Iraq.

Following that, you have to apologise (in the true sense, etymologically,
i.e. motivate) for the US invasion of Iraq.

If you can do that, then, perhaps you can understand that large-scale
strategy is the key. More specifically, strategic energy sources are the
key.

As your WalMart standard is witness, technology for the consumer depends on
what is available.

So, here we are, QED, US invasion of Iraq is due to oil supply, oil drives
the US economy, oil price dictates viable energy technology, so the previous
post is valid.

Roland


author: Fred B. McGalliard

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[email]> wrote in message
news:bm29f5$nhn$[email]...
...
WMD's

First item. WMDs. Don has no apology. He was either lied to, or at the very
least mislead by overeager war hawks, as were we all.

Second item. The US should be congratulated for invading Iraq, though
perhaps given a B+ for the war itself, and a C for the peace. Not because of
WMDs, but because it is impossible for me to imagine how decent people could
permit a dork like sadam to run a perfectly good country into the ground for
his personal pleasure. BTB, The US does get a D in executing Sadam. They
would get an F except he has been forced to keep his head down, and there
are a few positive points to executing his sicko kids.


author: No One

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
WMD's

I'm not don (w or otherwise) but I'd have to say a couple of thousand
Iranians who experienced Iraq's mustard gas first hand and the people who
saw the db's of the Kurds would be able to provide evidence that there was
WMD's in Iraq.


author: Michael

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
Plenty of other "bad" dictators in small countries at 500 Billion Dollars a
pop...

"Fred B. McGalliard" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
etymologically,
very
of
could
for


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"No One" <[email]> wrote in message
news:4Qihb.25$[email]...

For your benefit, the Kurdish insurrection was orchestrated by the CIA.
Check it out in your public access facilities.

Roland


author: Dez Akin

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Michael" <[email]> wrote in message news:<W9Hhb.7515$[email]>...

Sure, but we all know the beurocratic reason for the war at the start
wasn't WMD or human rights abuses,but overall strategic maneuvering.
Getting rid of Saddam was good; the years will tell whether it was
wise for US interests or the Iraqi people.

But as I read before on an iranian blog, cats to not catch rats for
the sake of god.


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
who
was

And this has just what to do with the fact that Iraq used a WMD (gas)?


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"No One" <[email]> wrote in message news:<7A3ib.26$[email]>...

Mr. No One, what is your definition of WMD?

All weapons are designed to destroy.

Note that WMD only entered the lexicon when the US invaded Iraq.

Now that the Iraq WMD argument is moot, you might find that some of
your old arguments have dissolved.

I know you're a man of constant honour. You should read up on middle
east history.

Roland


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
thousand
people
there
CIA.

To me WMD is just the new 'modern' version of NBC (Nuclear, Biological,
Chemical) therefore that is how I define it.  I think most people think of
it as a weapon which in a single use can cause damage or casualties
disproportional to the weapons size.  A single 500# HE 'iron bomb' dropped
on a city has a very small danger area. A NBC device of the same size can,
in theory, wipe out the entire city.

Not true.  What about stun guns?

Only because it was a 'cool' and new phrase/acronym that the news casters
and politicians could use to look 'hip'.  Before then, and AFAIK even now,
the military refered to them and NBC weapons.

Not that I've seen.

Been there, done that, got the report cards.  Back when I was in school we
had to study things like history and geography, unlike to day when kids lean
about thinks like 'conflict resolution' and 'diversity'.

FYI, I also know a few things about the religions involved and how each side
seems to be only reading parts of their religious texts.


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"No One" <[email]> wrote in message
news:5xuob.7$[email]...

'WMD' was sold to the US and UK public as the ability of Iraq to launch
immediate strikes on either or both the UK and the US with nuclear, chemical
or biological weapons.

Tony Blair even claimed that Saddam could launch missiles on the UK in 45
minutes.

You have to admit that this was ludicrous. The best that the post-invasion
crew could come up with was documents indicating that Saddam wanted to
develop nuclear and biological weapons.

Well, hallo! We all knew that.

A better way to deal with Iraq would have been to maintain UN weapons
inspection while eliminating sanctions, thereby enabling Iraqi society to
flourish.

As it stands, the US has an occupying army in a territory of cynical
poverty-stricken people. They're on a hiding to nothing.

Yep, I can see Saddam Hussain building up a stockpile of stun-guns.

OK, why did the US invade Iraq? I'll give it to you plain and simple. It's
now clear that Iraq held no immediate danger to the USA, and, moreover,
George Bush himself has now admitted in public that there is no link between
Iraq and Al Qaeda.

So why did the US invade Iraq?

lean
side

Oh dear, another wannabe religious expert.

Wake up, dude! 'Each side' is only what you read in your daily paper.

Exactly which religious texts deal with the US invasion of Iraq?

You are so naive it's laughable! Have you ever set foot outside the US of A?

Roland


author: Kimmo Klemola

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
No One wrote:

I am from totally neutral country, which locates not east not west,
which is very unreligious etc. So my points of view should be cleaned
from any "brainwashing" (at least I think so). I just say one thing: If
anyone of you imagines that in Iraq there is good against bad, wrong,
there are only bad against bad, no heroes.

Kimmo


author: Harry Conover

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[email]> wrote in message news:<bo1g4m$l11$[email]>...

The point that you so curiously avoid is that Iraq (Saddam) has been
historically known to employ such WMD in the past against his enemies,
often who were often but not always his own people!

Are you so naive that you believe Saddam and his evil ilk of followers
had a conscience attack and destroyed all weapons of this type, or
simply hid them away somewhere in one of their isolated regions where
a thousand years of manual searches will nevery find them, until of
course some Iraqi who wants a better life for himself, his family, and
his nation will point the way?

The fact that the limited number of US forces in Iraq has not yet
located caches containing WMDs means nothing except that the US needs
more toops and equipment assigned to this specific objective, which
assignments would detract from the more immediate and humanitarian
need in rebuilding Iraq.

What you are probably too young to realize that, left unchecked,
Saddam displayed every indication of his ability to become another
Adolph Hitler, then suck the majority of civilized nations of the
world into another WWII scale disaster at a cost of tens or hundreds
of million lives.

It probably will take another 50 years or so for the dust to settle
and the real facts to become known, at which time I expect an award of
the Nobel Peace Prize to be shared by George W. Bush and Tony Blair
for their combined efforts.

Of course, this is simply my viewpoint.

                                                  Harry C.


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
of
dropped
can,
chemical

Strange I donï¿½t remember anyone saying this. I do remember hearing that he
had the ability to launch a NBC strike as well as he might be getting ready
to sell NBC material to terrorist.

Didnï¿½t hear that either. I head the 45 min launch time but no one ever tried
to say he had the range to reach outside the middle east.

If he said it, yep.

Actually they have reported finding several items which he was not supposed
to have because they could be used to make NBC weapons.

Ah. . .do you remember Iraq preventing the UN inspectors from inspecting?
And do you REALLY think that with the people at the top taking the money
Iraq was making before either war and using it to build palaces that if we
removed the sanctions Iraq would flourish?

Huh?

You made a blanket statement and I pointed out the flaw in the statement. It
ï¿½s the same thing as when people tell me a handgun has no other propose but
to kill people and I tell them mine must be defective.

between

IMO, it was because we had intel showing he was supplying terrorist and that
he was trying to rebuild his NBC capability. In this day and age what is
immediate danger? If someone was about to sell, letï¿½s use the biotoxin of
the day, anthrax to a known terrorist would that be an immediate danger?
After all how long does it take to fly from any major city in the world to
the US 1-24 hrs?

we

Got a good imagination have you. How do you get from knowing ï¿½a few thingsï¿½
to an expert?

FYI, I donï¿½t even get a daily newspaper. My local paper only comes out once
a week and itï¿½s only about 12 pg thick. I get my news from many sources via
the internet. I get state, national and international news and get many
different views all with a couple of mouse clicks. I took my school house
rock seriously; knowledge is power.

The extremist are using their version/interpretation of the Koran to raise
ï¿½armiesï¿½ to attack the US and Iraq has been connected to some of those
extremist. Just about the same way extremist used the Bible to raise armies
for the Crusades.


author: Neil Adams

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[email]> wrote in message
news:bo1g4m$l11$[email]...
SNIP
It's
between
school we
kids
each
of A?

Roland et al, may I recommend a glance at
http://www.cadi.ph/Features/Feature_14_BUSH%20DOCTRINE.htm
It's written by Nicanor Perlas who just had a Right Livelihood Award (sort
of alternative Nobel prize) bestowed on him by the Swedish Parliament.

To my good friend Don W. and any other similarly-minded citizens of the
U.S. who might venture to Manila: I'll buy the wine for the next live
discussion!

Kind regards,
Neil A.


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Kimmo Klemola" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
...

Actually, the minuteman nuclear weapon system can be said to be designed to
avoid destruction, and the lack of nuclear war up to now may give some
credance to this. It was supposed to be so destructive that no one would
dare push us to war even with a massive first strike.

...

Well, you could have very bad against much worse.


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Neil Adams" <[email]> wrote in message
news:bo2gap$bui$[email]...

I recall you and your lovely bride picked up the tab for a very fine chinese
dinner complete with bird's nest soup!  Neil, I do look forward to our live
discussions every bit as much as you.  I'll be seeing you soon.

Your friend,
Don W.


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
Fred B. McGalliard wrote:

But who is much worse? If you have a global "democratic" gallup, the
choice could be (and it would probably be) GWB and his troops.

KK


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
"Kimmo Klemola" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
...

You mean it's not?


author: Line Noise

subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
In article <[email]>, "Fred B. McGalliard"
<[email]> wrote:

As to who is worse that is a _question!_
Who is more evil, he who kills his kids,
or he who kills his brothers kids?


subject: Re: "Terrorists Attack Oil Addicts"

text:
Who is more evil?
He who
Calls his wife a stupid bitch.
Tells his kids how stupid they are.
Chooses war because he knows how to pull a trigger.
Laughs at a good idea because it violates his preconceptions.

"Line Noise" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Terrell D. Drinkard

subject: Re: 757 highest thrust to weight ratio ?

text:
In article <[email]> Bob Coggeshall <[email]> writes:

My back-of-the-envelope calculations would suggest about a .38 thrust to
weight ratio.  That is assuming the RR RB211-535E4B gives around 42,000 lb
thrust (SLST) at a MTOW of 220,000 lb.  I'm not aware of anyone who
actually bought that configuration, though.  Oh, and on their acceptance
flight tests, (I got to fly one on a 737-400 once) these babies are *empty*
and climb like homesick angels.  I have seen VSIs pegged (6,000fpm+).

I've never seen it, but then I don't do any flight test stuff.

Excellent question! :-)


author: Karl Swartz

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Terrell D. Drinkard) writes:

The various RB.211-535 variants used on the 757 range from 37,400 lb
thrust up to 43,100; the PW2037 is rated at 38,250.  Most airlines
choose a 230,000 or 240,000 lb MGTOW, however.  The only one I could
find on a quick scan with only 220,000 was Northwest, which with the
PW2037 works out to 0.3477.

Curiosity drove me to dig out the March 16, 1992 AW&ST with the big
specifications section and look up the power/weight ratios for some
common transports.  Where a choice was available I tried to pick the
heaviest version with the highest thrust verion of a common engine
type, and tossed in a couple of other interesting cases.  Over 24
samples the power/weight ratios ranged from 0.2428 to 0.3477.  The
higher figure is the 757 in Northwest's configuration; a better
comparison point is the 240,000 MGTOW 757 which comes in at 0.3187,
trailing only the A320/A321, MD-90, and 737-500 (and of course the
lighter 757).

Not surprisingly, the top 11 were all twins.  At the other end of the
scale, the heaviest 737-200 Advanced, at 0.2488, was only ahead of the
727-200 Advanced.  Judging by these numbers it would seem the 737-200
is a rather underpowered aircraft.

Subjectively, pilots I've talked to love the 757 for its abundant
power and from the cabin once I was impressed with how quickly a 757
got us out of a wind-shear situation at O'Hare.

Another factor that may give an illusion of power is that most 757s
are used on medium-range routes, yet they've got a 4550 mile range.
Typical flights probably carry a light fuel load and thus may be well
short of MGTOW.

As for highest of any commercial airliner, even the lightest 757 is
still well short of the Concorde's 0.3725 power/weight ratio.  :-)


author: Fred Christiansen

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Karl Swartz) writes:

Why "not surprisingly"?  As a layman with no background in this stuff,
I would have tho't that manufacturers would keep the thrust-to-weight
in some ballpark range (for economic reasons).  And that the advent
of larger twins is because more powerful engines have become available,
eliminating the need for a 3rd (or in the case of, say, MD-10 class
aircraft, the need for a 4th).


text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Fred Christiansen) writes:

The catch here is that once committed to takeoff, the aircraft must be
able to fly long enough to return for a safe landing with one engine
out.  With four engines, this in effect means you've got to carry 33%
more power than the bare minimum to keep you in the air; with two you
need a full 100%.  Note that this does not *necessarily* imply a much
higher thrust/weight ratio -- depending on how the certification regs
are written, one could figure maybe twenty minutes to dump fuel and
return and certify the engine for a substantial overload thrust quite
a bit above the normal "maximum" thrust.  But since essentially the
same engines would also be used on three- and four-engine aircraft
this probably wouldn't make much difference.

Looking at this from the view of normal operations, the engines on a
twin will normally not be worked as hard which should lead to higher
reliability and lower maintenance costs.  And, as mentioned in regard
to the 757, better climb performance when needed.

The Airbus A330 and A340 offer an interesting comparison, since they
are identical save the engines (two on the A330, four on the A340),
their wing attachments, and those parts of the controls directly
affected by the engine differences.  (Fuselage lengths differ too
though this is true even amongst A340 models.)  The A340, with four
engines, offers freedom from ETOPS restrictions for long, overwater
routes.  The A330, with two larger engines, offers the maintenance
economies of fewer engines for shorter or overland routes.

It's interesting, then, that Lufthansa chose the A340 even though
the A330 would have served most of the routes they had in mind.  As
I recall, they felt that four less-stressed engines would be cheaper
to operate and maintain than two larger engines.  Given the overall
popularity of twins this doesn't seem to be a widespread view; it may
simply reflect greater confidence in the more mature engines of the
A340 compared to the A330.


author: Gregory Wright

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Fred Christiansen) writes:

  The reason for the this may, as you say, may not be so obvious so
alow me to put in my two cents. The FAA, along with the CAA and others,
require that we demonstrate a minimum climb out gradient with one engine
inoperative. In the case of a two engine aircraft this requires that
the airplane be able to climb out with a 50% reduction in gross thrust.
For a four engine platform this one engine out condition represents only
a 25% reduction in thrust. You can see then, that for a two engine plane
it is required to "over" engine the plane...

Hope this helps to clear things up,
greg
HIgh lift development


author: Gregory R. Travis

text:
Karl makes some excellent points regarding the reasons twins tend to be
overpowered compared to 3 and 4 engined jets.

I would just like to add that FAA certification requires not only that an
airplane be able to finish takeoff, return, and land with AN engine out,
but that it also meet certain climb performance criteria during a
single-engine climb.

Karl is absolutely right that, on a 747 that loses one, the remaining three
need to make up, individually, much less of the lost thrust.  Whereas on
a 757 the remaining engine must make up ALL of the lost thrust.

However, I am confused by Karl's statement that Lufthansa chose the A340
over the A330 because of concerns that the twin-engined A330 would place more
stress on its two engines whereas the A340 would enjoy higher engine
reliability as its four engines loafed along.

Since a twin engine jet is nominally overpowered compared to a four engine
jet, it should be able to operate, on aggregate, at a lower thrust setting
during takeoff or be operated at high thrust for a shorter overall climb.

Since a four-engine jet has all four operating closer to the margin, in
normal operation, the engines should suffer from higher demands all around.

greg


author: Derek H Cedillo

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
[good outline of engine loading]

I think the thing here, is that you are imagining two different engines
entirely.  This isnt exactly the case.  I dont have thrust data handy,
so I cant compare the A330 engine performance with the A340, but as a quick
example, I'd like to point out that the A340, A320 and A321 all have
the same GE engine spec (CFM56-5) while the A340 is a four engine plane
and the A320 and 21 are two engine planes.
Althought the 340 is definately bigger than the 320/1, I dont think the
engine loading would be twice as much.  (can someone come up with stats
to prove or disprove please)

Another look is the 767-200ER/300/300ER, MD-11 and 747-200/300/400 which
can choose the GE CF6-80C2.
All are relatively large planes, and they gradually increase
in size, but is it huge enough to say the 747 is Twice as heavy/aero dyn
loaded, etc, to require twice the thrust as the 767?
Note that they have 2,3,4 engines respectively
Again, I would appreciate any airframe data to support the
weight/thrust/loading claim, or shoot me out of the sky as seen fit.

Can someone help?
Thanks,

Derek

-------------------------------
"He lived a life of going-to-do,
   and died with nothing done"
		-J. Albery

In other words---JUST DO IT!


text:
In response to Derek H Cedillo's reply to Gregory R. Travis' reply to
my post ...

Greg sez ...

  However, I am confused by Karl's statement that Lufthansa chose the A340
  over the A330 because of concerns that the twin-engined A330 would place more
  stress on its two engines whereas the A340 would enjoy higher engine
  reliability as its four engines loafed along.

Just to make it clear, this was a rather fuzzy memory.  I believe I
read the details, which I may have distorted badly, in AW&ST, but
cannot place it better than that.  At the time, it kinda made sense
to me, but I'm not sure it does now.

If anyone can fill in the missing details I would be most appreciative.

Greg continues ...

  Since a twin engine jet is nominally overpowered compared to a four engine
  jet, it should be able to operate, on aggregate, at a lower thrust setting
  during takeoff or be operated at high thrust for a shorter overall climb.

  Since a four-engine jet has all four operating closer to the margin, in
  normal operation, the engines should suffer from higher demands all around.

and Derek replies ...

  I think the thing here, is that you are imagining two different engines
  entirely.  This isnt exactly the case.

Eh?  Don't you have that backwards?  Since an A330 is little more than
an A340 with two big engines instead of four little ones, it's very
much the case that the engines are entirely different.  And this may
well be the case -- at least by some metrics, a 67,500 lb. thrust
engine endures more stress than a 31,200 lb. thrust engine.  Of course
it depends on the core from which one started, and a lot of other
factors.

Or perhaps Lufthansa feels the CFM56 is inherently more reliably than
any of the engine options for the A330 (CF6-80 first, then PW4000, and
RR Trent and GE 90 options later).  Not that there's anything *bad*
about any of the larger engines, but the CFM56 has the best record of
any of the larger jet engines if I'm not mistaken.

Derek continues ...

  I dont have thrust data handy,
  so I cant compare the A330 engine performance with the A340, but as a quick
  example, I'd like to point out that the A340, A320 and A321 all have
  the same GE engine spec (CFM56-5) while the A340 is a four engine plane
  and the A320 and 21 are two engine planes.

It's actually a CFM International (GE and Snecma are equal partners, I
believe) engine, and the -5 simply means its for an Airbus as far as I
can tell.  In its various incarnations a CFM56 ranges from 20,000 lbs.
thrust up to 34,000 lbs.  The A320 uses a -5A2 (25,000 lbs.) or -5A3
(26,500 lbs.) version, while the initial A340 version uses a -5C2
(31,200 lbs.).

  Althought the 340 is definately bigger than the 320/1, I dont think the
  engine loading would be twice as much.  (can someone come up with stats
  to prove or disprove please)

I'm not sure this will answer the question or not, but I dug out the
power/weight specs I gathered earlier, added numbers for the A330/A340,
and added a column for power/weight ratio with one engine out.  Here's
what I came up with:

model		pass	range	MGTOW	engines		thrust	p/wt	1out
-----		----	-----	-----	-------		------	----	----
A320-200	140-179	    ?	162	2 CFM56-5A3	26500	0.3272	0.1636
A321-100	180-220	    ?	181.2	2 CFM56-5B2	31000	0.3422	0.1711
A330		280-440	    ?	467.5	2 CF6-80E1A2	67500	0.2888	0.1444
A340-200	220-440	    ?	558.8	4 CFM56-5C2	31200	0.2233	0.1675
A340-300	280-440	    ?	558.9	4 CFM56-5C2	31200	0.2233	0.1675

The one-engine-out numbers are remarkably similar for the A320 and A340.

  Another look is the 767-200ER/300/300ER, MD-11 and 747-200/300/400 which
  can choose the GE CF6-80C2.
  All are relatively large planes, and they gradually increase
  in size, but is it huge enough to say the 747 is Twice as heavy/aero dyn
  loaded, etc, to require twice the thrust as the 767?

Well, sucking a few more figures out of my files:

model		pass	range	MGTOW	engines		thrust	p/wt	1out
-----		----	-----	-----	-------		------	----	----
747-400		412-509	 8380	870	4 PW4056	56000	0.2575	0.1931
767-300(ER)	204-290	 6650	400	2 PW4060	60000	0.3000	0.1500

I picked these two particular airframe/engine combinations as the best
comparison points but have more data if anybody wants it.  In any case,
yes, the 747 *is* twice as heavy, more than that in fact, but because
it uses a slightly lesser rated engine has a bit less than twice the
thrust.

  Again, I would appreciate any airframe data to support the
  weight/thrust/loading claim, or shoot me out of the sky as seen fit.

  Can someone help?

There's some data, but I'm not understanding Lufthansa's position much
better.  Maybe it's just the late hour, or the flu I've been fighting
off.

How 'bout one of you folks from Boeing?  (Better yet, Airbus, if any
of you are out there!)


author: Lucy

subject: Are there any closed-form expression for evaluating predictory power using power curve, Gini coefficient, ROC, Lorenz curve, etc.?

text:
Hi all,

I am playing with the spam data. There are several models I'd like to
try out.

These models, upon training, are used to generate a spam probability,
and to predict if the incoming email is spam or not. These models have
parameters that need to be tuned during training. Normally, I can use
training-testing cross-validation and use the power curve, gini
coefficient, ROC, etc. to tune the training parameters.

However, I met with difficulty in one model:

This model views the incoming training sequence as a stochastic
process, and it has parameters that depend on the training sequence
viewed as a time series. If the order of the training sequence change,
the parameters will also be changed.

Thus, for one sequence of time series training set, it has a particular
set of parameters. Thus, to tune one set of parameters, the whole
training sequence is only one sample. I cannot use the training-testing
cross-validation to tune my parameters, because the whole input
sequence is just one sample.

I do have a bunch of such sequences, they can be deemed as tens of
samples if each sequence is to be deemded as one sample. The problem is
the parameters for each sequence i.e. sample are different.

Let's say I have 10 such input sequences, for each one, there are 6
parameters to tune,

Each sequence will generate a set of parameters to predict the
probability of the next incoming email in that sequence being a spam...

So if I use normal approach using the ROC or Gini coefficient, or the
area under curve, I have to tune 10x6=60 parameters altogether.

I have the closed-form expression for the spam probability generated by
this model, and for the test cases, I can have the power curve, Gini
coefficient, ROC, lorenz curve, false alarm rate calculated. If I can
have the close form expression of the Gini coefficient based on my
predicted spam probability, then I don't need to pool all 60 parameters
together.

I have pool all 10 sequence and 60 parameters together because I have
to use the empirical data and do something similar to "Monte Carlo" in
order to generate the ROC curve.

But if I can wrap the ROC and the Gini coefficient and other measures
of the predictory curve into one close-form expression, then I don't
need to pool all the empirical data together, I can play with the
tuning process analytically, then maybe I can tune 6 parameters for
each sequence individually, hence the work load can be drastically
dropped.

So my questions are:

1. How to improve the predictory power of the model when there are
parameters to be tuned for each time series input which is deemed as
one sample as a whole. Thus different samples need different
parameters...

2. Is there a closed-form expression for Gini coefficient etc. which is
based on the predicted spam probability(this is the output of my
model), and which can be used analytically without "Monte Carlo"

Thanks a lot!


subject: Re: Are there any closed-form expression for evaluating predictory power using power curve, Gini coefficient, ROC, Lorenz curve, etc.?

text:
To put it in another way, I really need something metric which
resembles the ROC or Area-under-curve(AUC) and that will be my
optimization objective function. Currently my model outputs predictory
probability of whether an email is spam or not. If the metric function
can be in closed-form in terms of the probabilities and the model
parameters, that will be great.

Because if I do in a "Monte Carlo" approach, I will have to run 10
samples, each being a whole sequence, each determines a different set
of 6 parameters. Then the total 10 samples of true values - spam or
non-spam will be my empirical distribution to allow me count the ratio
of false alarms and true alarms, then I draw the ROC curve, and try to
figure out the area under the ROC curve, which is AUC. And then feed
this area number to my optimizer and optimize the total of 60
parameters w.r.t. the AUC objective function.

If there are 100 samples of training sequences, then I will have to
optimize 600 parameters. This wierdness comes from the fact that each
of my training sample/sequence generates a differnet set of 6
parameters. Instead of using all the samples to decide ONE set of 6
parameters.

I don't know how to work around. So I am hoping that there is a
closed-form expression for the area under curve the AUC, in terms of my
predictory probability and the 6 parameters for each sequence. Thus I
can optimize for each training sequence individually.

As long as I have closed-form analytical expression for AUC, I don't
need to run 100 or 1000 sample sequence all together. I can optimize
each sequence's 6 parameters individually.

But if I don't have closed-form expression for AUC, I will have to run
100 or 1000 samples in a Monte Carlo way because I need those sample
points to figure out the area under curve AUC numerically and
experimentally.

Any thoughts?

Lucy wrote:


author: Tom Ho

subject: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
Hi netters,

What is the general treatment for a broken collarbone?

My friend had a bike accident and broke his left collarbone (ouch!). The
X-ray reveals that the collarbone was broken in half and has the "^" shape.
Also from the picture, both pieces seem to have pointed ends.

He has opinion from 3 doctors so far (only one is official).

1.	The emergency doctor told him that they (ie my friend's doctor
	et al) may do nothing or may set the bone back the best they can.

2.	A friend of the family, who is a doctor, looked at the x-ray and
	said that a surgery should be done to set the bone back
	properly.

3.	His doctor said the wound "just takes 4-6 weeks to heal" and so
	he recommends to do nothing. He also said that if the bones grew
	abnormally and hurt him, they would do the surgery then.

My question is what is a typical treatment for the above case? Do
nothing or set the bone? Surgery or no surgery? What is the long term
consequence if the pieces are not re-connected? What about the
functionality of the shoulder, arm? Will he be able to ride again?

Please feel free to opine on the issue. I just want to know what is
being done for a broken collarbone (and will take your advice with a big
grain of salt :-)).

Please send email directly to me if possible, since I don't frequent
these newsgroups.

Thank you very much.


author: Addickson

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
(Tom Ho) writes:

I had a broken collarbone when I was in 8th or 9th Grade.  The doctor
wrapped my shoulders in a ace bandage & it took about 4-6 weeks to heal.
Sounds like one of the doctors your friend spoke to.  For any broken bone,
I would talk to an orthopod, the bone doctors, see more joint and bone
injuries than GPs do.  When my wife dislocated a joint, her doctor screwed
it up, our vet's advice, (free over the dinner table) was identical to the
orthopod's, when she finally saw one.  So maybe a vet is the answer.

Good luck


author: Jobst Brandt

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
Tom Ho writes:

The responses from doctors who were consulted that you listed seem to
vary a bit but I didn't notice that any mention was made of the most
common treatment.  From my experience with my own broken collar bones
and those of my bicycling friends is that a soft sling is wrapped in a
figure eight around both shoulders with its length adjusted by a knot
between the shoulder blades.  When properly adjusted the sling pulls
the shoulders back and holds the collar bone in its normal position.


subject: *** SCI.MED newsgroup ***

text:
Hi, all.  I've noticed postings recently which focus on personal
health-related questions rather than on issues regarding applying
to med school, classes, residency (e.g."education.medical");
so I wanted to remind readers that there is a more appropriate
forum for questions regarding personal health on the "sci.med"
newsgroup.

Hope someone reads this.

Terry


author: Dale Kleeman

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Jobst Brandt) writes:

This fits in well with my experiences with broken collar bones.  One thing
worth adding is that you will probably be off the bike for a minimum of 6
weeks, and considerably longer if the 2 parts of the bone don't line up
exactly as they were before - with one of my breaks, the 2 ends overlapped a
bit and I was off the bike for about 3 to 4 months.  With some sports such as
football they may consider putting a pin in it to speed up the healing process
and get you back into the sport.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
In article <[email]>, <[email]>
writes:

Hi,

Please !!! Don't touch it ! Certainly don't operate on it ! Broken collarbones
heal very well without operation in 99 % of the cases in about 3 to 4 weeks.
Actually, when you would operate on a broken collarbone over here in Europe you
almost surely would end up with a magnificent malpractice suit and.. you would
lose !!!

So, don't worry: nature is very good to broken collarbones: they heal very
well with a "figure eight bandage" and *without* surgical intervention. There
are some exceptions but they are very rare.

Frank


author: Judy Ann Kettenhofen

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
[email] wrote:

: In article <[email]>, <[email]>
: writes:

: > What is the general treatment for a broken collarbone?
: >
: > My friend had a bike accident and broke his left collarbone (ouch!). The
: > X-ray reveals that the collarbone was broken in half and has the "^" shape.
: > Also from the picture, both pieces seem to have pointed ends.
: >
: > He has opinion from 3 doctors so far (only one is official).
: >

I broke my collarbone when I was about 16.  It was not operated on.
An interesting curiousity showed up years later when I was taking
a massage course.  It seems that the massage activity had a tendency
to dislocate my collarbone--presumably because it was shorter from
the break.  It wasn't painful, just mildly uncomfortable, and fixed
easily by the chiropracter I was seeing at that time. (I've always
wondered what an MD would have said about this...)

--Judy


author: Len Babin

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
When I broke mine, I was offered a scar or a bump.  The only way to move
them (set them) is through surgery and pinning, otherwise, you leave it
aligned the way it is and nature will look after it.  The break point
will be the strongest part of the bone after healing.  So, I took the bump
caused by the misalignment of the bone.  It has healed fine and I
have had no problems.


subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
Dale Kleeman writes:

WHAT?  I had no interruption on bike riding with either my left or right
collar bone breaks.  I rode to work at first with my hand on the injured
side in my back pocket and with time could grasp the top of the bars.
Bones generally mend in 4-6 weeks not months.

Pin or no pin, the bone must mend or there will be motion that causes
a big mess.

Jobst Brandt      <[email]>


author: Andy Woodward

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
Excessively pessimistic. Mine was well smashed, but I was back on the rock,
putting up new routes in 3 weeks.


author: Mark Davis

subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
In article [email], [email] (Judy Ann Kettenhofen) writes:

MD: Ever break your collar bone? Seems ok now. That will be $75.

---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: If anyone is responsible for these views, it's got to be me.
Sure, it must be me. Well, at any rate, it isn't my employer, and it isn't
my client, if that's what you're up to. You ought to be ashamed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


subject: Re: Treatment for broken collarbone

text:
I'd say go with a figure eight bandage.  I've broken my right
collar bone twice -- once while riding (typical endo) and the
other time while playing football.  The first time was
particularly nasty because the bone was broken into three distinct
pieces.  I wore a figure eight bandage for about a month and it
healed just fine.  BTW, I was told that the area of the bone that
heals is actually stronger than the uninjured bone.  I tend to
believe this since when I broke the same collar bone a second time
playing ball, it broke completely in two directly adjacent to the
area that previously healed.  It healed just fine the second time
using the same fiqure eight bandage from the first injury.

Joe LaPenta
[email]


author: Brent Krupp

subject: PLEASE STOP CROSS-POSTING TO MISC.MED.EDU!!!

text:
Please people! Some guy asked his stupid collarbone question in
misc.education.medical as well as other groups where it may belong. It
does NOT belong here though. Please take misc.education.medical out of
the Newsgroups: line when you reply on this thread or you're going to
continue contributing to gross misposting.

Thanks.

Brent Krupp ([email])


author: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

subject: Daily WDJW Health Tip for 12/09/10

text:
It is when we are grounded in reality, which is simply the truth, that
we thrive productively (John 15:5-8) thereby becoming healthier
(hungrier --> http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry ) than ever:

http://WDJW.net/HealthTip

Be hungrier, which really is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

We do this by weighing our meals per the http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER
Approach to get our...

http://WDJW.net/Status

and then...

http://WDJW.net/Update

so that there will be...

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Being hungry is truly wonderful as proven by four lines of evidence:

Mathematical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113247&l=9583a55b45&id=1467768946

Historical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113078&l=0071d60632&id=1467768946

Medical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31107542&l=a51ee83a50&id=1467768946

Psychological:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31229810&l=0b3a2ad60b&id=1467768946

So that we really should http://WDJW.net/BeHungry and say we are
"wonderfully hungry" whenever we are greeted:

http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113612&l=cbe72c46ca&id=1467768946

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to convince others:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c?

"A 2005 visit to an Atlanta cardiologist by the name of Andrew Chung
put me on some serious reality

I wasnt just chubby or husky, I am what they often call morbidly
obese. He explained that morbid obesity simply means that if something
happened to me that could be attiributed to weight and I were to end
up in the not breathing state

ok some call it DEAD

that a doctor could simply dismiss it as natural causes related to
weight more or less.

Ive been told I was a chunky fella a couple times, maybe even fat...
but not quite that harshly.  Definitely made me think about a few
things, as much as I dislike scare tactics when it comes to health.

Well in the midst of the shock treatment, he also had me come to a
heart wellness seminar that he does on some Saturdays in Mableton.

Nice little get together, he has folks from the community come in and
discuss Tai Chi, exercises, testimonials, all kinds of good stuff.

Then he shows the movie SUPERSIZE ME to set up the pitch for his 2PD
Omer approach that he has his patients use to lose weight.

In a nutshell, in his view, HOW MUCH you eat is more of the issue than
WHAT you eat and portion is more important than any fat content or
calories.

I agree with this.  This is why I have always been more successful on
more liquid diets (cabbage soup, slimfast, herbalife (tho dangerous))
than anything else.  I wasnt eating the portions I was before that..."

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e82824a99ba4f187?

This has all been about http://WDJW.net/TheTruth

May GOD continue to save the souls of those who are around this
physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) by giving them a new heart and
a new spirit (Ez11:19-20&36:26) so that they would be born again of
water and Spirit (Jn3:3&3:5), http://WDJW.net/Forgiven by Him so that
they would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the Truth,

Andrew <><


subject: Praying here for Ken's perishing soul ...

text:
... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends to also pray for
Ken simply because we truly "agape" love him as our LORD commands
(John 15:12) with all glory to GOD the Father.

Ken wrote:

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/77109afdfa9455f5?

... and ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/bd4a3310cdc6e165?

Actually, insanity is simply a condition of being disconnected from
reality falsely thinking fiction is truth thereby suffering from
delusions.

For example, your quoting Albert Einstein's fictional definition of
insanity multiple times and applying it as if it were true serves well
as evidence that you really are becoming insane.

Ken wrote earlier in part:

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/40a1fbe0d8ff812a?

Only the truth, Who is Jesus, can keep you from becoming more
delusional like your mom was.

There are others who are also observing that you are exhibiting
psychopathology:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3f56b038f17f681b?

Bottom line concerning you, Ken:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e444a7f27fc8ae79?

Truth is reality ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/459c9c0ed3b24ca2?

... despite your efforts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3160f9fd903ab7c2?

And, so this bona-fide physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) freely
chooses to continue to pray for you as outlined per the amazing
Facebook spectacle at http://WDJW.net/Salvation earlier:

May GOD save your perishing soul by giving you, Ken, a new heart and a
new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born
again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5), http://WDJW.net/Forgiven
by Him so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Be hungrier, which really is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

We do this by weighing our meals per the http://WDJW.net/2PDOMER
Approach to get our...

http://WDJW.net/Status

and then...

http://WDJW.net/Update

so that there will be...

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Being hungry is truly wonderful as proven by four lines of evidence:

Mathematical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113247&l=9583a55b45&id=1467768946

Historical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113078&l=0071d60632&id=1467768946

Medical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31107542&l=a51ee83a50&id=1467768946

Psychological:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31229810&l=0b3a2ad60b&id=1467768946

So that we really should http://WDJW.net/BeHungry and say we are
"wonderfully hungry" whenever we are greeted:

http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113612&l=cbe72c46ca&id=1467768946

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to convince others:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c?

"A 2005 visit to an Atlanta cardiologist by the name of Andrew Chung
put me on some serious reality

I wasnt just chubby or husky, I am what they often call morbidly
obese. He explained that morbid obesity simply means that if something
happened to me that could be attiributed to weight and I were to end
up in the not breathing state

ok some call it DEAD

that a doctor could simply dismiss it as natural causes related to
weight more or less.

Ive been told I was a chunky fella a couple times, maybe even fat...
but not quite that harshly.  Definitely made me think about a few
things, as much as I dislike scare tactics when it comes to health.

Well in the midst of the shock treatment, he also had me come to a
heart wellness seminar that he does on some Saturdays in Mableton.

Nice little get together, he has folks from the community come in and
discuss Tai Chi, exercises, testimonials, all kinds of good stuff.

Then he shows the movie SUPERSIZE ME to set up the pitch for his 2PD
Omer approach that he has his patients use to lose weight.

In a nutshell, in his view, HOW MUCH you eat is more of the issue than
WHAT you eat and portion is more important than any fat content or
calories.

I agree with this.  This is why I have always been more successful on
more liquid diets (cabbage soup, slimfast, herbalife (tho dangerous))
than anything else.  I wasnt eating the portions I was before that..."

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e82824a99ba4f187?

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><


author: MU

subject: WARNING BEWARE WARNING!

text:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING BEWARE WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2PD-OMER is of the Devil! Do not partake of the Devil's sacrament or
givest thou to Beelzebub's rituals!
He who partakes of 2PD-OMER carries the Mark of the Beast! 2PD-OMER is
a demonic cipher that equates to six hundred threescore and six.
2PDOMER = 666!

MU*


subject: WARNING BEWARE WARNING!

text:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING BEWARE WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2PD-OMER is of the Devil! Do not partake of the Devil's sacrament or
givest thou to Beelzebub's rituals!
He who partakes of 2PD-OMER carries the Mark of the Beast! 2PD-OMER is
a demonic cipher that equates to six hundred threescore and six. 2PD-
OMER = 666!

MU*


subject: Praying here for Ace's perishing soul ...

text:
... and encouraging born again (Jn3:3&5) friends to also pray for
Ace's perishing soul simply because we truly love him as our LORD
commands (Jn15:12) with all glory to GOD the Father.

Ace* wrote:

2 doesn't become 6 by any cipher demonic or otherwise.

Truth is reality.

Laus Deo for His allowing you to demonstrate yet again that there is
no truth in you.

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/43ac51288fba2ee9?

Ace* wrote:

This physician chooses to interview only with respectable media
outlets that do not push fad diets.

Indeed, the 2PD-OMER Approach is http://WDJW.net/NotDiet and has an
awesome $2,000,000.00 guarantee of efficacy:

http://WDJW.net/Guarantee

Ace* wrote:

Chris Malcolm, who is European (thereby showing that the 2PD-OMER
Approach is widely known globally) residing in Edinburgh, has known
about it for more than 5 years:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?

Laus Deo for His compelling you to unwittingly and compulsively keep
on demonstrating that there is no truth in you.

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/aa53ae0bcebf4764?

Ace* wrote:

Not while advocating http://WDJW.net/NoReligion

Truth is reality.

Again you have shown there is no truth in you.

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ebbee5385e5bf1ce?

Ace* wrote:

Then your knowing about it is a miracle :-)

When the time is right and the LORD willing, all will know about the
http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach and its awesome guarantee:

http://WDJW.net/Guarantee

... which may possibly (Mt19:26) be raised to $2 Billion Dollars after
a multibillionaire friend tests it out on himself to see if there is
any way he can personally thwart it :-)

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4072e0587dd3d337?

Ace* wrote:

Not for the discerning who know that GOD is the Great Physician and is
therefore this physician's Employer. Truth is reality :-)

It is written that the streets of Heaven are paved with real gold :-)

And so the awesome $2,000,000.00 guarantee of the
http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach is backed by real gold:

http://WDJW.net/Guarantee

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a6cbcefd3ec5ac14?

Ace* wrote:

Paranoid delusions of home invasion that compel folks to flee from
their homes tend to be nonsensical and are irrational.

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/db83c4be161fce0b?

Ace* wrote:

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3e8cd2af7d8aee76?

It is your fault for falsely thinking that the 2PD-OMER Approach is a
ritual instead of a prescription.

It is your own spirit that is evil and as shown yet again, there is no
truth in you.

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e3c6ff18f2265840?

May GOD change your stony heart, Ace, and give you a new spirit
(Ez11:19-20&36:26) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is
Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Be hungrier, which really is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

We do this by weighing our meals per the http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER
Approach to get our...

http://WDJW.net/Status

and then...

http://WDJW.net/Update

so that there will be...

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Being hungry is truly wonderful as proven by four lines of evidence:

Mathematical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113247&l=9583a55b45&id=1467768946

Historical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113078&l=0071d60632&id=1467768946

Medical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31107542&l=a51ee83a50&id=1467768946

Psychological:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31229810&l=0b3a2ad60b&id=1467768946

So that we really should http://WDJW.net/BeHungry and say we are
"wonderfully hungry" whenever we are greeted:

http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31113612&l=cbe72c46ca&id=1467768946

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to convince others:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c?

"A 2005 visit to an Atlanta cardiologist by the name of Andrew Chung
put me on some serious reality

I wasnt just chubby or husky, I am what they often call morbidly
obese. He explained that morbid obesity simply means that if something
happened to me that could be attiributed to weight and I were to end
up in the not breathing state

ok some call it DEAD

that a doctor could simply dismiss it as natural causes related to
weight more or less.

Ive been told I was a chunky fella a couple times, maybe even fat...
but not quite that harshly.  Definitely made me think about a few
things, as much as I dislike scare tactics when it comes to health.

Well in the midst of the shock treatment, he also had me come to a
heart wellness seminar that he does on some Saturdays in Mableton.

Nice little get together, he has folks from the community come in and
discuss Tai Chi, exercises, testimonials, all kinds of good stuff.

Then he shows the movie SUPERSIZE ME to set up the pitch for his 2PD
Omer approach that he has his patients use to lose weight.

In a nutshell, in his view, HOW MUCH you eat is more of the issue than
WHAT you eat and portion is more important than any fat content or
calories.

I agree with this.  This is why I have always been more successful on
more liquid diets (cabbage soup, slimfast, herbalife (tho dangerous))
than anything else.  I wasnt eating the portions I was before that..."

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e82824a99ba4f187?

This has all been about http://WDJW.net/TheTruth

May GOD continue to save the souls of those who are around this
physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) by giving them a new heart and
a new spirit (Ez11:19-20&36:26) so that they would be born again of
water and Spirit (Jn3:3&3:5), http://WDJW.net/Forgiven by Him so that
they would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus Christ of Nazareth:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Love in the Truth,

Andrew <><


subject: Re: 20 Questions About the Delta Clipper

text:
transit
affect

The problem with the Comet had nothing at all to do with engines. It
had to do with metal fatigue on the fuselage and an insufficient
number of rip stops. This is not likely to be a problem on DCX as
materials are much better understood now. Not to mention that
simulation, while not perfect, allows problems like this to be
uncovered before prototyping. It even eliminates the need for
fullscale models (as has been noted by Dani I believe) and thus cuts
cost at the same time it cuts design risk.

The DCX is a simple craft using off the shelf parts and well
understood technology. There may be some flight regimes in which
there is something to be learned, but I suspect there is not much
from a science viewpoint. Unlike other vehicles built in the past,
its design is not a research project. This is a skunkworks aviation
project whose only goal is operational hardware.

If you want to find out everything there is to know about DCX that is
in the public domain, pickup the last couple volumes of SpaceDigest
from the archives.


author: Greg Moore

text:
In article <[email]> [email] writes:
Sorry, I was not clear above.  I did not mean that the Comet faield due
to engine problems.  The problems were partly a result of extrapolating
the known into the unknown.  THEIR engineering tests didn't indicate
the stress fatigue would be a problem.

	Bringing the anology to the DC-X and later, I'm curious as to
what problems they expect with the cycling of pressure differentials
(i.e. sea-level to vacumn) and tempature ranges will have on the
engines.  Yes, our knowledge is better, but is it enough?

	The key there is "some flight regimes in which there is
something to be learned"  I think we might learn a lot.  I just
hope known of it endangers the craft.


author: Allen W. Sherzer

text:
In article <[email]> [email] writes:

The main thing learned from DCX will be the viability of the flip
maneuver they use on re-entry. According to the NASA assessment of
the Delta Clipper design there isn't enough in the database to tell
if it will work.

  Allen


subject: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
For my new heavy shop press

       http://goo.gl/1XGhQ

I wanted to make an end piece for the hydraulic ram, so that the ram
is enclosed inside the nose piece. This way, I hope, I can aviod
deforming the valuable ram, and instead would expose a cheap end piece
to all the deformations.

To that end, I grabbed a piece of 4140 structural tube, appx. 5
inches ID, 1/2" inch thick, and a mild steel round bar appx. 6.5
inches in diameter (a bit wider than the tube) and 1 inch thick.

After boring the tube a little bit so that it would fit over the ram,
I welded the round to one of the ends of the tube. I used 3/16" 7018
welding rod at 180 amps.

Side view:

     |!       !|
    .|!       !|.
    =============

The dots "." above signify the weld area.

It ended up looking half way decent. There was some intentional
clearance between the inside of that tube and the ram, and I filled it
with a rag (put a rag on top of the tube and pressed down with the
ram, pulling the rag in as the ram went). The rag holds everything
together and, I hope, will also provide some cushion and ease of
removal.

And then I started doubting myself, about how well that weld is going
to hold up to pressing at 75+ tons. 4140 is medium carbon and how well
is the weld going to hold, in this scenario?

And, most importantly, if it fails, under pressure, how it is going to
fail? If it just cracks, then nothing unsafe is going to happen. Just
a little embarrassing. But could it shatter violently?

Supposedly, when pressing, the stress on the weld is not going to be
much, as the pressing force is passed down from the ram, and the rag,
to the bottom steel round. The tube is just there to keep everything
together.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

thanks

i


author: Steve W.

subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
Ignoramus3543 wrote:

SNIP

Shouldn't be a problem. The load should be evenly spread across the surface.

--
Steve W.


subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
Not many jobs will require the full 75T capacity of the press.. I'd expect
most jobs to be significantly lower.

I'm no metallurgist, but a piece of steel that can be bent without snapping
will just deform under stress/tension. There could possibly be some reason
for concern if working with work hardening stainless alloys.

Unless you try pressing endmills or other hard cutting tool steel into other
parts, there should be no shattering, or flying bits breaking away from the
workpieces.

--
WB
.........

"Ignoramus3543" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: John B.

subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 23:32:16 -0500, Ignoramus3543
<[email]> wrote:

As you describe it there will be essentially no force on the weld as
the ram will press against the mild steel which will press against the
work (if I read your description correctly :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.


author: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
Ignoramus3543 <[email]> fired this volley in
news:[email]:

What's to fail?  The ram pushes on the plate, not the tube.  The tube is
only providing positioning and retention for the plate.

Were I you, I'd nix the rag between plate and ram.  You can put three
setscrews around the tube to hold the plate in place.  The rag consitutes
"cushion", as you noted.  Anything that can absorb energy and spring back
suddenly when released is bad to have around hydraulic presses.

Lloyd


subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
On 2013-05-18, [email] <[email]> wrote:

And that is why my fit is far from close, and exactly why I use a rag,
to fill a space with soft material, keep the nose in place, and
provide minimal cushioning.

I thought a lot about Lloyd's comment about cushioning providing some
undesirable spring action, but, I think, a rag should not be able to
store any significant energy.

Yes. The cylinder is double acting, so I think that I will be able to
pull it out of the nose piece, if I ever need to.

As for set screws, I am afraid that they will get damaged by the
pressing action and "play".

I agree with that, I used what I had available, not saying that it is
the best selection.

i


subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
On 2013-05-18, Steve W. <[email]> wrote:

Yes, the plate was cut out from a hot rolled plate, it looks like.

i


author: Ernie Leimkuhler

subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
Normally, to weld 4140 to Mild steel you would use a stronger rod, like
8018. You should also have preheated the whole piece to around 500 degF
before welding and allow to slow cool under sand or some other
insulator.

I doubt anything will explode.
All the force is on the mild steel, however your welds will likely
crack eventually. No big deal. Just grind out the cracks and reweld.

The rag will likely decompose over time and pressure into powder.

In article <[email]>,
Ignoramus3543 <[email]> wrote:


subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
On 2013-05-18, Ernie Leimkuhler <[email]> wrote:

Ernie, thanks a lot, I will be using it and will reweld as necessary.

i


author: John Gullotti

subject: Re: Welding 4140 to mild steel

text:
If it's not cracked yet, you can post weld heat treat the assembly at 1150F and that will reduce the potential for delayed hydrogen cracking.  A post weld soak at 350 - 450 would work almost as well.  The 7018 rod is fine as it matches the mild steel side of the joint and as long as the rod was dry (like in fresh out of the can or always protected in a rod oven) you should be fine.  The medium carbon alloy steel is very susceptible to delayed cracking and both the higher the strength of the rod and the greater the strength of the weld (i.e., size) the  greater the chances of cracking.  Cracking will mostly happen due to residual stresses from welding.  Service  loads shouldn't be a problem unless the weld is undersized and then you'll get weld metal cracking.

good luck.

j

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:52:33 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus12664 wrote:


author: Private

subject: Re: Press safety

text:
"Ignoramus3543" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

IMHO, ANY heavy press should be equipped with a substantial  screen which is
permanently attached to the press frame and can be positioned to prevent any
flying shrapnel from striking any persons or property.  The screen should be
able to be moved aside (or up) to load the work into the press then easily
positioned to contain any possible shrapnel caused by the failure of the
press, its attachments or jigs or of the work.  The positioning of the
screen should be done before ANY substantial pressure is applied.

Some would suggest that the screen should be equipped with a micro switch
that prevents application of substantial pressure without the screen being
locked into place, but most workplaces just have a sign requiring the use of
the screen.  I suspect that a screen is a requirement of OH&S / OSHA.

"Protect yourself at all times" is not just for boxers.

Good Luck, YMMV


subject: Re: Press safety

text:
On 2013-05-20, Private <[email]> wrote:

i do have a screen on my press, check the picture above