text:
Pizza Girl. wrote:

I suppose the fact that people have been using that therapy for
centuries and that (in their perception) they have worked, worked well
and worked where many medications have failed for many ailments.
Pee&poop therapists have proven themselves over and over. So there ya
go, next time you have a healthproblem, what are you gonna do? Let us
know about your experiences please.

No they haven't

No they're not.

No, they can't. All they can and do is give excuses why they can't come
up with the same evidence of efficacy and all sorts of excuses why it is
unfair to demand actual proof of efficacy from them.

BS, even before that there were plenty of conventional medications made
from plants. But herbal preparations in herbal shops are still 98% quackery.

If only alt-med would do the same, particularly homeopathy. If you have
over 200 years to prove yourself and you still can't, you'd think it's
about time to try a different approach. Not homeopaths. How about this:
in a test of homeopathy a remedy against migraine is tested against a
placebo. Before the blinding is totally removed, the 2 groups of
patients are compared and one is showing some improvement. The
homeopaths were all smiling and confident. However, the group with the
improvement turned out to be the placebo group. And what did the
homeopaths have to say? They were very surprised their remedy apparently
didn't work, but they were still going to use it cause they had seen it
worked so many times that they were sure it worked. Yes of course, the
test had shown that a placebo was better, but they were still going to
use it. Cognitive dissonance so typical of alt-med.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Homeopathic Remedy Ruta 6 selectively induces cell death in brain cancer cells

text:
"Allopathic medicine can't cure ignorance or pessimism either."

Which brings us back to the placebo effect.  For it to work people must
think it can.  Medical drugs work regardless of one's faith in its action.
In fact, to be accepted extensive research must be done to show it works
even when the people using it don't know if it is the real thing or a
placebo used in the research as a control reference.


author: Pizza Girl.

text:
There is no scientific proof for that.

Aspirin has never been shown to work. SSRI medications often score less than
placebo in double blinded trials.

This is all based on testimonials from people. Some testimonials are
documented by researchers in varying degrees of studies and some are
documented in books and websites and soem are only verbal to listeners. I
tend to believe people I know  with personal experience rather than some
company with a hidden agenda to sell their wares.

The research you see has been specially selected to sell you  and indicates
a gullible salesman's dream only.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:433b1e52$0$280$[email]...
Which brings us back to the placebo effect.  For it to work people must
think it can.  Medical drugs work regardless of one's faith in its action.
In fact, to be accepted extensive research must be done to show it works
even when the people using it don't know if it is the real thing or a
placebo used in the research as a control reference.


text:
"Aspirin has never been shown to work. SSRI medications often score less
than placebo in double blinded trials."

We went through this before, you wanted one, just one, example where
aspirin was shown to work in controlled trials; and I obliged you without
breaking a sweat in two examples. I have no direct knowledge with ssri but
would be happy to read confirmation of which you speak if you provide it.

"This is all based on testimonials from people. Some testimonials are
documented by researchers in varying degrees of studies and some are
documented in books and websites and soem are only verbal to listeners. I
tend to believe people I know with personal experience rather than some
company with a hidden agenda to sell their wares."

A great deal of effort is taken to keep from people testing drugs knowing
if they are taking the real thing or a placebo.  The great bulk of
research is done using measures not known to the participants and using
tests which don't rely on their knowledge in anyway, let alone seeking
their opinion of anything.  A blood pressure drug is a good example.

Research into how people form their opinions show that peer pressure and
group think in a "them and us" manner are very strong in forming popular
opinions, in contrast to conclusions based on research.

"The research you see has been specially selected to sell you and
indicates a gullible salesman's dream only."

And how does this same vulnerability to marketing differ with
homopathology?


text:
I guess when these so-called researchers gather the testimonials of the test
subjects it means so much more than the testimonials of people just taking
the product.

Some science. Wrong again.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:433b3361$0$281$[email]...
"Aspirin has never been shown to work. SSRI medications often score less
than placebo in double blinded trials."

We went through this before, you wanted one, just one, example where
aspirin was shown to work in controlled trials; and I obliged you without
breaking a sweat in two examples. I have no direct knowledge with ssri but
would be happy to read confirmation of which you speak if you provide it.

"This is all based on testimonials from people. Some testimonials are
documented by researchers in varying degrees of studies and some are
documented in books and websites and soem are only verbal to listeners. I
tend to believe people I know with personal experience rather than some
company with a hidden agenda to sell their wares."

A great deal of effort is taken to keep from people testing drugs knowing
if they are taking the real thing or a placebo.  The great bulk of
research is done using measures not known to the participants and using
tests which don't rely on their knowledge in anyway, let alone seeking
their opinion of anything.  A blood pressure drug is a good example.

Research into how people form their opinions show that peer pressure and
group think in a "them and us" manner are very strong in forming popular
opinions, in contrast to conclusions based on research.

"The research you see has been specially selected to sell you and
indicates a gullible salesman's dream only."

And how does this same vulnerability to marketing differ with
homopathology?


text:
"I guess when these so-called researchers gather the testimonials of the
test subjects it means so much more than the testimonials of people just
taking the product.

Some science. Wrong again."

I'm guessing, as it seems the thing here, you are referring to aspirin and
the two studies I provided upon your request to show it works to produce a
desired outcome.  In both cases the observations of the subjects were not
used, tests which measure biochemical changes were used and great pains
were taken to make sure the subjects didn't know what they were taking.
May I guess that knowledge about science is not one of your fortes?


text:
Oh I see. They used the biochemical pain test to see if they were in pain or
not. They should use subjects that aspirin didn't cause them  to lie.

ROFLMFAO. I see logic is not one of your fortes.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:433c0a69$0$280$[email]...
"I guess when these so-called researchers gather the testimonials of the
test subjects it means so much more than the testimonials of people just
taking the product.

Some science. Wrong again."

I'm guessing, as it seems the thing here, you are referring to aspirin and
the two studies I provided upon your request to show it works to produce a
desired outcome.  In both cases the observations of the subjects were not
used, tests which measure biochemical changes were used and great pains
were taken to make sure the subjects didn't know what they were taking.
May I guess that knowledge about science is not one of your fortes?


text:
"Oh I see. They used the biochemical pain test to see if they were in pain
or not. They should use subjects that aspirin didn't cause them to lie.

ROFLMFAO. I see logic is not one of your fortes."

Oh, how soon they forget.  You asked for one study showing aspirin works.
I asked you to define what you meant, you said "show me".  So I did, twice
when after the first one you moved the goal posts.  Nowhere have you asked
me to show a study of aspirin involving pain.  As I recall, another poster
did in fact show you exactly research involving aspirin and pain.  I
haven't looked for its use with aspirin, but one can measure reaction to
pain with a chemical measure. Attempts at clever word play is not the
salvation of homopathology, similar to moving the deck chairs on the
titanic.


text:
LOL whatever.

Have a good one.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:433c870e$0$282$[email]...
"Oh I see. They used the biochemical pain test to see if they were in pain
or not. They should use subjects that aspirin didn't cause them to lie.

ROFLMFAO. I see logic is not one of your fortes."

Oh, how soon they forget.  You asked for one study showing aspirin works.
I asked you to define what you meant, you said "show me".  So I did, twice
when after the first one you moved the goal posts.  Nowhere have you asked
me to show a study of aspirin involving pain.  As I recall, another poster
did in fact show you exactly research involving aspirin and pain.  I
haven't looked for its use with aspirin, but one can measure reaction to
pain with a chemical measure. Attempts at clever word play is not the
salvation of homopathology, similar to moving the deck chairs on the
titanic.


subject: Photos of Earth and Sun from shuttle: any favorites?

text:
I've been digging around in the various NASA image archives for on-orbit
photographs of both the earth (at an oblique angle) and sun.  I've come to
the conclusion that trying to find images like this is like looking for a
needle in a haystack with the current photo search engines.

One example of what I'm looking for can be found at http://www-
istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/istp/outreach/images/Earth/andes.jpg (watch line wrap).
Does anyone have any favorites similar to this image, or any advice on how
I can best search for similar images?

Thanks.


author: Guy Parry

subject: Re: Photos of Earth and Sun from shuttle: any favorites?

text:
Best search for such images?  You almost certainly won't find 'em
on-line.  If they're not spacewalk or happy-snap 'tourist' pics, like
me, you'll have to go and examine the films in person at JSC!  A hell
of a lot of their photos never get digitised. There are a LOT ,and it
would be a massive task.  Man, half the payload-bay phoptos *I* wanted
had never appeared in print ANYWHERE.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:50:08 GMT, (csbh<REMOVE>@(TH+ESE)datahit.com)
(Coridon Henshaw) wrote:


author: Lars Joreteg

text:
"csbh@(TH+ESE)datahit.com Coridon Henshaw" wrote:

Here's a mighty cool one, from STS-98:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-98/html/sts098-333-0007.html

 - Lars


text:
Guy Parry <[email]> wrote in
<[email]>:

JSC has around 380,000 astronaut photographs of earth, dating back to 1968,
online at http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/sseop.  I've gone though the technical
search engine forwards and backwards but I haven't turned up much of
anything.

Is JSC's film library significantly larger than their online database?

(Or, for that matter, are there any other *large* online databases worth
looking at?)


author: Gloria West

subject: "6000 count" display?

text:
Some DMM manufacturers state that the display of a meter is "6000 count"
capacity.

With all those 4 digits, the display could show 9999.

Why is it called "6000 count"?

<http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-
1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=1537336>

Thank you.


author: pimpom

subject: Re: "6000 count" display?

text:
Gloria West wrote:

The link didn't work for me. Anyway, the DMM is probably
programmed to read up to 5999. The majority of DMMs can display
up to 1999 and are called 3 1/2 digit types. Those reading up to
3999 are often called 3 3/4 digit types. Those going up to 19999
are called 4 1/2-digit models, and so on.


author: Phil Allison

subject: Re: "6000 count" display?

text:
"Gloria West"

** Cos that  IS  in fact the largest reading possible on the particular
meter.

There are 2000, 3200, 4000, 6000 etc count meters on the market that all
use 4 digits.

The really important difference is in the accuracy built into each model
 -   there is really no point in having more than 2000 counts shown if the
basic accuracy is only 1%.

Generally, 2000 count meters have 0.5 % DC accuracy, 3200 count meters
0.3%, 4000 count 0.25% and 6000 count 0.15%.

The principle being that in the worst case situation, where only 10% of the
available count is visible  -   the meter's inherent  * inaccuracy * affects
only a
single count.

The worst case is when the reading is just a tad over what the next lower
range
will accommodate  -   like 201 mV on a 2000 count meter.

.....  Phil


author: John Fields

subject: Re: "6000 count" display?

text:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:53:10 -0800, Gloria West
<[email]> wrote:

---
See page 2 of:

http://www.intersil.com/data/an/an017.pdf
---

---
My pleasure.

JF


author: ehsjr

subject: Re: "6000 count" display?

text:
Gloria West wrote:

David Jones does a nice job explaining counts in his EEVblog.

See:
http://www.eevblog.com/2009/08/21/eevblog-26-multimeter-counts-accuracy-resolution-calibration/

or, if the line wrap in the above causes trouble:
http://www.eevblog.com/2009/08/
then look at
EEVblog #26 - Multimeter Counts, Accuracy, Resolution & Calibration

Ed


subject: Re: "6000 count" display?

text:
<http://tinyurl.com/yljnu77>

I've been used to seeing that nomenclature: 3 1/2, 4 1/2...  Had not seen the
spec called "Display Count" as 6000, etc.


subject: Re: "6000 count" display?

text:
Phil Allison wrote:
This is where a so-called 3 3/4 DMM (up to 3999) comes in useful
for me as the standard mains voltage here (India) is 230V.


author: Blupencl

subject: I confuse myself SO MUCH!

text:
"she has suffered with *left greater than right *knee pain"

or

"she has suffered with *left-greater-than-right* knee pain"

If I ever stab myself to death, it will be with a hyphen. :(


author: Bambi C.

subject: Re: I confuse myself SO MUCH!

text:
"she has suffered with knee pain, left greater than right"

8-)

Bambi C.

"Blupencl" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Barbara Carlson

subject: Re: I confuse myself SO MUCH!

text:
That is what I would do with it, too.  Had it in my head before I clicked on
it!  Word for word.

Barb C.
"Bambi C." <blcc324@epixdotnet> wrote in message
news:MPDMh.3454$[email]...


subject: Re: I confuse myself SO MUCH!

text:
Yeah, but (a) they don't really like us to do that and (b) I don't do
that kind of editing anyway. They better say it right. If they do, I'll
put it in there right. If they don't, well then that's their problem,
for the most part.

Nobody ever said "this is verbatim" but I know they mean it to
be...quasi-verbatim. I don't think that's actually a word but you get
what I mean...


subject: Iron exposure / significant fibrosis

text:
<<snip>>
Duration of exposure to iron is important in the development of hepatic
fibrosis
<<snip>>

Am J Gastroenterol. 2005 Apr;100(4):837-41. Related Articles, Links

Duration of hepatic iron exposure increases the risk of significant
fibrosis in hereditary hemochromatosis: a new role for magnetic
resonance imaging.

Olynyk JK, St Pierre TG, Britton RS, Brunt EM, Bacon BR.

School of Medicine and Pharmacology, University of Western Australia,
Nedlands, Western Australia.

OBJECTIVES: Hepatic fibrosis is a complication of hereditary
hemochromatosis. The aim of this study was to determine whether the
product of the magnitude and duration of hepatic iron exposure is
related to the risk of significant fibrosis. METHODS:
Receiver-operating characteristic curve analysis to determine the
utility of hepatic iron concentration (HIC) and age in the diagnosis of
low- or high-grade fibrosis was undertaken retrospectively in 60
subjects who had undergone liver biopsy for assessment of hereditary
hemochromatosis. A prospective pilot study was then conducted in 10
additional subjects to evaluate utility of magnetic resonance imaging
(MRI) measurements of HIC to predict fibrosis. RESULTS: Eighteen
subjects had high-grade fibrosis while 42 subjects had low-grade
fibrosis. Hepatic iron concentration alone was highly sensitive (100%)
but of limited specificity (67%) in diagnosis of high-grade fibrosis.
The product of [HIC x age] had a sensitivity and specificity of 100%
and 86%, respectively, for diagnosis of high-grade fibrosis. Magnetic
resonance imaging measurements also provided accurate assignment of
subjects into fibrosis severity groups. CONCLUSIONS: Duration of
exposure to iron is important in the development of hepatic fibrosis in
hereditary hemochromatosis. The product of HIC and age is highly
sensitive and specific for diagnosis of high-grade fibrosis and can be
obtained using MRI.

PMID: 15784029 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


author: werty

subject: Re: Iron exposure / significant fibrosis

text:
FORGET exposure !!  it's intake over bodies requirement !

maybe 50% of Americans abuse IRON .
  It is sudden and not reverseable . excess iron
 collects in liver .  You can not reverse the storage .
  You are dead ( but it takes many years before lights out ) .

 common sense says WAIT till you can't oxigenate blood , now you're a
Doctor ! you figured your own needs .  This kind of test does no
permanent damage .
 Next fgure the periodicity . how long must you wait
 between a small "trace" of iron  with your food .
  Your body does not waste Iron , not even females !
 But it is unintuitive .  females have sig' less iron but they lose far
more monthly !  And they are the ones abusing iron .

  Try this : slowly reduce iron over a year and tell me
if you feel a threashold or "step" function"  .
 Bet ya don't !!  til ya get to a rediculous level , maybe once every 4
months and only in 10% of female  population !!
 But at the doses you're taking , it' will take 17 years to get down !

 A healthy female will simply adjust to anemia .
 and since you are warned , you will quickly take a small amt and
you're good for 6 months or a year or
maybe never .


author: wc

text:
Ohmigawd, another sweet little mother F******, cross-posting iron
monger.  This time, it's named Werty.

PLONK !   <-------- Killfile sound


author: Zbyszek Płotnicki

subject: Dowód

text:
AUTOR: ZBIGNIEW PŁOTNICKI

Temat: Dowód, że problem spełnialności formuł logicznych jest
wielomianowy.

Każde wyrażenie oparte na q symbolach i trzech operacjach logicznych
(or, and, ~) możemy zapisać w postaci:

(x[1,1] * x[1,2] * ... * x[1,c[1]]) +
(x[2,1] * x[2,2] * ... * x[2,c[2]]) +
  ... +
(x[n,1] *x[n,2] *... * x[n,c[n]])

gdzie x[i,j] jest dowolnym z symboli niezanegowany lub zanegowany.
"*" - oznacza 'and'
"+" - oznacza 'or'
czyli w postaci alternatyw koniunkcji dowolnych symboli lub ich
negacji.

Przekształcić można dowolne wyrażenie do tej postaci w czasie
wielomianowym, otrzymując maksymalnie ciąg długości wielomianowej
względem ciągu wejściowego.

Jeśli poszukujemy odpowiedzi dla jakich wartości formuła będzie
spełniona to musimy zanegowac cale wyrazenie i wyprowadzic negacje do
symboli (czyli tak zeby negacje wystepowaly jedynie przed poejdycznymi
symbolami, a nie przed wyrazeniami) stosujac az do skutku dwa
przeksztalcenia:

~(a*b) = ~a + ~b
~(a+b) = ~a * ~b

i dopiero z niego obliczyc postac alternatyw koniunkcji. Także czynimy
to w czasie wielomianowym.

Jeśli natoamist poszukujemy odpowiedzi dla jakich wartości formuła
będzie niespełniona to nie musimy jej zanegowac przed przeksztalceniem
do postaci alternatyw koniunkcji.

Mamy wiec wyrazenie w postaci alternatyw koniunkcji, ktore jest
wielominaowo proprocjonalne do dlugosci wejsciowego wyrazenia.

Będzie to wyrazenie tautologią, jeśli pewien podzbior koniunkji bedzie
zawsze rowny 1. Jeśli to wyrazenie bedzie tautologią, to znaczy ze dla
dowolnych wartosci bedzie cale zawsze rowne 1, czyli nigdy nie
osiagnie wartosci 0. Jesli zanegowalismy wyrazenie to bedzie
odwrotnie, jesli jest tautologią, to dla zadnych argumentow nie
przyjmie wartosci 1.

Teraz pokaże, jak wyliczyć dla jakich wartości przyjmuje ono wartosci
1 i czy jest tautologią, w wielomianowym czasie.

Dla q symboli bedziemy mieli drzewo roznych wartosciowan symboli o 2^q
lisciach.
Musimy sie dowiedziec dla jakich sciezek przyjmie wartosc 1 i czy
stanowi tautologię.

Jest to bardzo proste.

Każda pelna koniunkcja bedzie w postaci ciagu: (~)a[1] (~)a[2]... (~)a
[q] i bedzie tworzyc sciezke w drzewie wartosciowań, gdzie symbol
negacji moze byc przed symbolem albo nie, i jesli go nie ma to
wybierana jest galaz lewa, jesli jest galaz prawa w drzewie
wartosciowań.

Każda niepelna koniunkcja w ktorej brakuje symboli bedzie miala w
miesce symbolu symbol X oznaczajacy przejscie przez obie sciezki i w
ten sposob utworzy drzewo będące poddrzewem pełnego drzewa
wartościowań.

Algorytm jest bardzo prosty: musimy teraz zliczyc przez ile sciezek z
wszystkich 2^q przejdą wszystkie koniunkcje.

Robimy to tak:
bierzemy pierwsza koniunkcję i dodajemy do listy poddrzew A zapisanych
symbolicznie tak jak napisalem powyzej. Przy czym z listy alternatyw
możemy usunąć już (ale nie musimy) koniunkcje, dla ktorych dana
koniunkcja jest podciągiem.

Bierzemy drugą koniunkcję i dla kazdego poddrzewa z listy A zapisanego
symbolicznie wykonujemy operację ktora jest następująca:

Oba drzewa zapisane są w postaci:
(~)a[1]/X (~)a[2]/X... (~)a[q]/X
czyli ciagu symboli, z ktorych kazdy moze byc zanegowany, ewnetualnie
X jesli w koniunkcji brakowalo symbolu.

Dla drzew w takiej postaci są tylko trzy przypadki:
a.) jedno drzewo jest wewnatrz drugiego, sprawdzamy to w ten sposób
czy dla wszystkich kolejnych pozycji wartosci z jednego conajmniej
zawieraja się w drugim, czyli albo są sobie równe, albo dla
konkretnego symbolu z tego ktory ma zawierac sie w drugim drugi ma na
tej pozycji symbol X, wtedy jedno drzewo połyka drugie. Jeśli nowe
drzewo polyka stare to i tak bedzie dla wszystkich pozostalych
obliczona rozlacznosc czyli bedzie zachowana i to nowe dolacza do
listy A w miejsce starego, a jesli drzewo z listy A połyka nowe
drzewo, to nie trzeba juz dalej sprawdzać rozłączności, bo jest na
mocy tego zapewniona. Złożoność O(q).
b.) jedno drzewo jest rozłączne z drugim, czyli któraś para konkretna
(nie zawierająca ani jednego X) nie jest sobie równa. Wtedy nowe
drzewo dolaczone jest do listy A. Złożoność O(q).
c.) jedno drzewo ma część wspolną z drugim, wtedy musi istniec taka
para wartości dla określonej pozycji że jeden ma na tej pozycji X a
drugi ustaloną wartość, wówczas konkretyzujemy ten, ktory ma X do
wartości przeciwnej wzgledem tej, ktora ma ten drugi i oba lądują w
liście A. Złożoność O(q). Bo jeśliby nie było takiej pary, to znaczy,
że byłby to przypadek a.) albo b.), czyli wszystkie pary byłyby
konkretne lub równe X, czyli albo różniłyby się na którejś pozycji ->
b.), albo nie różniłyby się -> a.)

Oczywiście drzewa są rozłączne pod względem nie pokrywania się
ścieżek, czyli wskazywania różnych zestawów wartości symboli.

Dla drzew w postaci takiej jak opisana tylko jeśli na pewnej pozycji
się różnią co do konkretnej wartości (czyli nie moze byc to X i cos
innego) są rozłączne. Dlatego trzeci przypadek musi wprowadzać taką
różnicę, żeby sprawić aby były rozłączne i aby nadal wyznaczały w
sumie to samo, co właśnie robi.

Gdy to zrobimy otrzymujemy gwarancje że są to drzewa w których żadne
wartości się nie dublują. Koszt takiej operacji O(W(n) * q).

Postepujemy tak dla każdej kolejnej koniunkcji z wyrażenia dla
wszystkich poddrzew na liscie A. Złożoność takiej operacji będzie O(W
(n)*W(n)*q), gdzie W(n) to wielomian powstaly z wyliczania zwyklego
wyrazenia do postaci alternatyw koniunkcji. Otrzymalismy zatem
algorytm wielomianowy dla problemu spełnialności formuł logicznych.

Po wykonaniu operacji mamy w liscie A wszystkie poddrzewa wartosciowan
symboli dla ktorych cale wyrazenie przyjmuje wartosc 1.

Czyli jesli nie zanegowalismy wyrazenie to otrzymamy w postaci listy A
poddrzewa wartosciowan dla ktorych wyrazenie przyjmuje wartosci 1, a
jesli zanegowalismy to 0.

Teraz sumujemy wielkości wszystkich poddrzew z listy A. Jeśli drzewo
nie zawiera ani jednego X, to ma wielkosc 1. Jeśli zawiera n Xów to ma
wielkość 2^n.
Jeśli sumaryczna wielkość drzew równa jest 2^q to znaczy ze wyrazenie
jest tautologią. Czyli ze zawsze przyjmuje wartosc 1, jesli nie bylo
zanegowane, albo ze zawsze przyjmuje wartosc 0 jesli bylo zanegowane.
Obliczamy to w czasie W(n)*q.

Cały algorytm ma zatem złożoność O(W(n)*W(n)*q)

Czyli w czasie O(W(n)*W(n)*q) otrzymamy odpowiedz na pytanie czy dana
formuła jest dla jakichs argumentów spełniona, albo czy jest dla
jakichś wartosci argumentów niespełniona, albo czy nigdy nie jest
spełniona, albo czy zawsze jest spełniona. W zależności co sobie
wybierzemy do obliczeń, czy samo wyrażenie czy jego negację.

W dodatku jeśli dopelnienie listy A tworzy mniejsze drzewo niż suma
elementow A, to znaczy ze mozemy zapisac to wyrazenie krócej wlasnie w
postaci zanegowanego wyrazenia alternatyw koniunkcji wynikajacych z
tego dopelniajacego drzewa. Czyli im blizej wyrazenie jest tautologii,
tym krocej je mozna zapisac.

Dowodzi to tego, że problem spełnialności formuł logicznych jest P.
Czyli że P = NP.

Zbigniew Płotnicki


subject: Re: Dowód

text:
Dla drzew w postaci takiej jak opisana tylko jeśli na pewnej pozycji
się różnią co do konkretnej wartości (czyli nie moze byc to X i cos
innego) są rozłączne. Dlatego trzeci przypadek musi wprowadzać taką
różnicę, żeby sprawić aby były rozłączne i aby nadal wyznaczały w
sumie to samo, co właśnie robi.
Dowód: przypadek trzeci jest wtedy kiedy występuje przynajmniej jedna
albo wiecej para X/wartość, a reszta jest taka sama. Wystarczy
skonkretyzować jedną z par X/wartość do wartości przeciwnej żeby
rozdzielić wartości reprezentowane przez te dwa drzewa.

On 7 Gru, 23:18, Zbyszek Płotnicki <[email]>
wrote:


subject: Re: Dowód

text:
Oczywiście drzewo ląduje na liście A dopiero po wyliczeniu
rozłączności ze wszystkimi jej elementami.

On 7 Gru, 23:28, Zbyszek Płotnicki <[email]>
wrote:


subject: Re: Dowód

text:
TROCHE DOKLADNIEJ WYJASNIONE
AUTOR: ZBIGNIEW PŁOTNICKI

Temat: Dowód, że problem spełnialności formuł logicznych jest
wielomianowy.

Każde wyrażenie oparte na q symbolach i trzech operacjach logicznych
(or, and, ~) możemy zapisać w postaci:

(x[1,1] * x[1,2] * ... * x[1,c[1]]) +
(x[2,1] * x[2,2] * ... * x[2,c[2]]) +
  ... +
(x[n,1] *x[n,2] *... * x[n,c[n]])

gdzie x[i,j] jest dowolnym z symboli niezanegowany lub zanegowany.
"*" - oznacza 'and'
"+" - oznacza 'or'
czyli w postaci alternatyw koniunkcji dowolnych symboli lub ich
negacji.

Przekształcić można dowolne wyrażenie do tej postaci w czasie
wielomianowym, otrzymując maksymalnie ciąg długości wielomianowej
względem ciągu wejściowego.

Jeśli poszukujemy odpowiedzi dla jakich wartości formuła będzie
spełniona to musimy zanegowac cale wyrazenie i wyprowadzic negacje do
symboli (czyli tak zeby negacje wystepowaly jedynie przed poejdycznymi
symbolami, a nie przed wyrazeniami) stosujac az do skutku dwa
przeksztalcenia:

~(a*b) = ~a + ~b
~(a+b) = ~a * ~b

i dopiero z niego obliczyc postac alternatyw koniunkcji. Także czynimy
to w czasie wielomianowym.

Jeśli natoamist poszukujemy odpowiedzi dla jakich wartości formuła
będzie niespełniona to nie musimy jej zanegowac przed przeksztalceniem
do postaci alternatyw koniunkcji.

Mamy wiec wyrazenie w postaci alternatyw koniunkcji, ktore jest
wielominaowo proprocjonalne do dlugosci wejsciowego wyrazenia.

Będzie to wyrazenie tautologią, jeśli pewien podzbior koniunkji bedzie
zawsze rowny 1. Jeśli to wyrazenie bedzie tautologią, to znaczy ze dla
dowolnych wartosci bedzie cale zawsze rowne 1, czyli nigdy nie
osiagnie wartosci 0. Jesli zanegowalismy wyrazenie to bedzie
odwrotnie, jesli jest tautologią, to dla zadnych argumentow nie
przyjmie wartosci 1.

Teraz pokaże, jak wyliczyć dla jakich wartości przyjmuje ono wartosci
1 i czy jest tautologią, w wielomianowym czasie.

Dla q symboli bedziemy mieli drzewo roznych wartosciowan symboli o 2^q
lisciach.
Musimy sie dowiedziec dla jakich sciezek przyjmie wartosc 1 i czy
stanowi tautologię.

Jest to bardzo proste.

Każda pelna koniunkcja bedzie w postaci ciagu: (~)a[1] (~)a[2]... (~)a
[q] i bedzie tworzyc sciezke w drzewie wartosciowań, gdzie symbol
negacji moze byc przed symbolem albo nie, i jesli go nie ma to
wybierana jest galaz lewa, jesli jest galaz prawa w drzewie
wartosciowań.

Każda niepelna koniunkcja w ktorej brakuje symboli bedzie miala w
miesce symbolu symbol X oznaczajacy przejscie przez obie sciezki i w
ten sposob utworzy drzewo będące poddrzewem pełnego drzewa
wartościowań.

Algorytm jest bardzo prosty: musimy teraz zliczyc przez ile sciezek z
wszystkich 2^q przejdą wszystkie koniunkcje.

Robimy to tak:
bierzemy pierwsza koniunkcję i dodajemy do listy poddrzew A zapisanych
symbolicznie tak jak napisalem powyzej. Przy czym z listy alternatyw
możemy usunąć już (ale nie musimy) koniunkcje, dla ktorych dana
koniunkcja jest podciągiem.

Bierzemy drugą koniunkcję i dla kazdego poddrzewa z listy A zapisanego
symbolicznie wykonujemy operację ktora jest następująca:

Oba drzewa zapisane są w postaci:
(~)a[1]/X (~)a[2]/X... (~)a[q]/X
czyli ciagu symboli, z ktorych kazdy moze byc zanegowany, ewnetualnie
X jesli w koniunkcji brakowalo symbolu.

Dla drzew w takiej postaci są tylko trzy przypadki:
a.) jedno drzewo jest wewnatrz drugiego, sprawdzamy to w ten sposób
czy dla wszystkich kolejnych pozycji wartosci z jednego conajmniej
zawieraja się w drugim, czyli albo są sobie równe, albo dla
konkretnego symbolu z tego ktory ma zawierac sie w drugim drugi ma na
tej pozycji symbol X (ten przypadek tez mozna pozostawić dla podpunktu
c.), ale bardziej optymalne jest rozwiązanie go metodą z podpunktu
a.) ), wtedy jedno drzewo połyka drugie. Jeśli nowe drzewo polyka
stare to stare jest wyrzucane, a nowe dolacza do listy A po wyrzuceniu
czesci wspolnych z pozostalymi elementami listy A, a jesli drzewo z
listy A połyka nowe drzewo, to to nowe jest wyrzucane. Złożoność O(q).
b.) jedno drzewo jest rozłączne z drugim, czyli któraś para konkretna
(nie zawierająca ani jednego X) nie jest sobie równa. Wtedy nowe
drzewo dolaczone idzie dalej w procesie wylaczania czesci wspolnych z
pozostalymi elementami listy A i na koncu jesli cos z niego zostaje
jest dolaczone do listy A. Złożoność O(q).
c.) jedno drzewo ma część wspolną z drugim, wtedy musi istniec taka
para wartości dla określonej pozycji że jeden ma na tej pozycji X a
drugi ustaloną wartość, wówczas konkretyzujemy ten, ktory ma X do
wartości przeciwnej wzgledem tej, ktora ma ten drugi i ten ktory jest
z listy zostaje w liscie nadal bedac rozlaczny z innymi bo jest
mniejszy od tego jakim byl przed odjeciem czesci wspolnej, a ten przed
odjeciem czesci wspolnej byl rozlaczny bo byl na liscie A, a ten nie z
listy idzie dalej w procesie wylaczania czesci wspolnych i na koncu
jesli cos z niego zostaje jest dolaczony do listy A. Złożoność O(q).
Bo jeśliby nie było takiej pary, to znaczy, że byłby to przypadek a.)
albo b.), czyli wszystkie pary byłyby konkretne lub równe X, czyli
albo różniłyby się na którejś pozycji -> b.), albo nie różniłyby się -

Drzewo ląduje na liście A dopiero po wyliczeniu rozłączności ze
wszystkimi jej elementami.

Oczywiście drzewa są rozłączne pod względem nie pokrywania się
ścieżek, czyli wskazywania różnych zbiorów zestawów wartości symboli.

Dla drzew w postaci takiej jak opisana tylko jeśli na pewnej pozycji
się różnią co do konkretnej wartości (czyli nie moze byc to X i cos
innego) są rozłączne. Dlatego trzeci przypadek musi wprowadzać taką
różnicę, żeby sprawić aby były rozłączne i aby nadal wyznaczały w
sumie to samo, co właśnie robi.
Dowód: przypadek trzeci jest wtedy kiedy występuje przynajmniej jedna
albo wiecej para X/wartość, a reszta jest taka sama. Wystarczy
skonkretyzować jedną z par X/wartość do wartości przeciwnej żeby
rozdzielić wartości reprezentowane przez te dwa drzewa, i aby w sumie
wskazywaly to samo co przed zmieną.

Gdy to zrobimy (dla wszystkich elementow listy A wykonamy a lub b lub
c) otrzymujemy gwarancje że są to drzewa w których żadne wartości się
nie dublują. Koszt takiej operacji O(W(n) * q).

Postepujemy tak dla każdej kolejnej koniunkcji z wyrażenia dla
wszystkich poddrzew na liscie A. Złożoność takiej operacji będzie O(W
(n)*W(n)*q), gdzie W(n) to wielomian powstaly z wyliczania zwyklego
wyrazenia do postaci alternatyw koniunkcji. Otrzymalismy zatem
algorytm wielomianowy dla problemu spełnialności formuł logicznych.

Po wykonaniu operacji mamy w liscie A wszystkie poddrzewa wartosciowan
symboli dla ktorych cale wyrazenie przyjmuje wartosc 1.

Czyli jesli nie zanegowalismy wyrazenie to otrzymamy w postaci listy A
poddrzewa wartosciowan dla ktorych wyrazenie przyjmuje wartosci 1, a
jesli zanegowalismy to 0.

Teraz sumujemy wielkości wszystkich poddrzew z listy A. Jeśli drzewo
nie zawiera ani jednego X, to ma wielkosc 1. Jeśli zawiera n Xów to ma
wielkość 2^n.
Jeśli sumaryczna wielkość drzew równa jest 2^q to znaczy ze wyrazenie
jest tautologią. Czyli ze zawsze przyjmuje wartosc 1, jesli nie bylo
zanegowane, albo ze zawsze przyjmuje wartosc 0 jesli bylo zanegowane.
Obliczamy to w czasie W(n)*q.

Cały algorytm ma zatem złożoność O(W(n)*W(n)*q)

Czyli w czasie O(W(n)*W(n)*q) otrzymamy odpowiedz na pytanie czy dana
formuła jest dla jakichs argumentów spełniona, albo czy jest dla
jakichś wartosci argumentów niespełniona, albo czy nigdy nie jest
spełniona, albo czy zawsze jest spełniona. W zależności co sobie
wybierzemy do obliczeń, czy samo wyrażenie czy jego negację.

W dodatku jeśli dopelnienie listy A tworzy mniejsze drzewo niż suma
elementow A, to znaczy ze mozemy zapisac to wyrazenie krócej wlasnie w
postaci zanegowanego wyrazenia alternatyw koniunkcji wynikajacych z
tego dopelniajacego drzewa. Czyli im blizej wyrazenie jest tautologii,
tym krocej je mozna zapisac.

Dowodzi to tego, że problem spełnialności formuł logicznych jest P.
Czyli że P = NP.

Zbigniew Płotnicki

On 7 Gru, 23:52, Zbyszek Płotnicki <[email]>
wrote:


subject: Re: Dowód

text:
Jeszcze jedna poprawka:
"Jeśli poszukujemy odpowiedzi na pytanie czy dla jakichs wartości
formuła będzie spełniona to musimy zanegowac cale wyrazenie i
wyprowadzic negacje do symboli (czyli tak zeby negacje wystepowaly
jedynie przed pojedycznymi symbolami, a nie przed wyrazeniami)
stosujac az do skutku dwa przeksztalcenia:

~(a*b) = ~a + ~b
~(a+b) = ~a * ~b

i dopiero z niego obliczyc postac alternatyw koniunkcji. Także czynimy
to w czasie wielomianowym.

Jeśli natomiast poszukujemy odpowiedzi czy dla jakichs wartości
formuła będzie niespełniona to nie musimy jej zanegowac przed
przeksztalceniem do postaci alternatyw koniunkcji."

On 8 Gru, 00:03, Zbyszek Płotnicki <[email]>
wrote:


subject: Corrections

text:
Today I got a letter back for "correction".  I sent it back with "changes",
but want to ask.

First he corrected anulus said it should be annulus.  Two sources say either
spelling is accepted, but it does give the double n first, so okay, no
problem.  If he wants that way I will do it that way.

The other I want to toss out for opinions.  This ortho repeatedly dictates
fabere test.  I spelled it that way, as I always have.  He has corrected it
to FABER emphasizing all caps and is very emphatic that is the way he wants
it.  I have been unable to verify this.  I have found a Faber anemia, and a
Faber syndrome--no Faber test.  But, he wants it that way I spell it that
way.

The other day he dictated a letter and used twice what he pronounced
"fabray" test.  He has always pronounced "faber" test before.  I wondered
about it, but since he was using a pronunciation he had never used before I
decided it was not the same, and typed fabere test both times.

Got it back for "correction".  Now if he wants it spelled FABER no matter
how he pronounces it, I will do it that way, but is there such a thing as a
FABER test?  I haven't come up with it.  Just curious.  If I'm wrong I want
to know it.  If I'm right, okay, I'll do it his way--he writes the
checks--but I would like the satisfaction of knowing I'm right if I am!

Barb C.


author: Bam

subject: Re: Corrections

text:
I just got this one back from QA the other day correcting me to FABER...
lemme see if I can find the cited reference for you.

I
a
want


author: Brenda C. Nygren

subject: Re: Corrections

text:
Steadman's has:

Faber syndrome:  achlorydric anemia

in Ortho book under test, FABER or faber:  flexion, abduction, external
rotation

in Ortho book under test, FABERE or fabere:  flexion, abduction,
external rotation, extension

Hope this helps.  Brenda

Barbara Carlson wrote:


author: Rennie

subject: Re: Corrections

text:
Barb, I have this in my notes:

"Anulorrhaphy is correct per Dr. Dirckx, JAAMT p. 60 March/April 2004.
However, annulorrhaphy is what references are still showing as correct. He
says this is changing."

So, it appears that the double n's are actually incorrect. Your dictator
just isn't as up on the language as you are.  ;)

Regarding FABER, it is an acronym for flexion, abduction, external rotation.
My Stedman's word books (Ortho. and Abbreviations) show it capped but they
also note that it is used in the lower case. It's my opinion that it should
be capped, as it is an acronym.

HTH a little!


subject: Re: Corrections

text:
Here ya go:
http://medinfo.ufl.edu/year1/bcs/slides/extrem/slide21.html

http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=-1583742927

http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE36.htm

"Barbara Carlson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
"changes",
either
it
wants
a
I
a
want


author: Liz

subject: Re: Corrections

text:
Barb, the orthopedist I worked for dictated FABER maneuver (acronym for
flexion, abduction, external rotation) - a test to determine if the patient
had hip arthritis.  But what I found weird was that he did not ask for all
caps for "fabere" test (an acronym for flexion, abduction, external
rotation, extension).  I had intended to ask why one was all caps and the
other wasn't, but never did, and he's retired now so it's too late.

"Barbara Carlson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Corrections

text:
Thanks everyone.

My ortho book does (don't know why I missed it before--Stedman's) list
faber, but all lower case.  I agree, though, if it is an acronym it should
be all caps.  It also lists fabere all lower case, but just f. sign and f.
test.  What really threw me was that change in pronunciation, as I had been
doing  FABER for some time, but he never pronounced it "fabray" before, and
I thought fabere fit that better--he also always says "faber test" which is
why I used fabere originally.  Also this doc is a terrible speller--and
thinks he is a great speller--so I never know whether to take his word for
things or not.

Bam, thanks for the links.

Anulus/annulus was no problem, as I saw that while both were accepted, the
double-n was listed first--I will just put it in my expander in case I
forget the double-n!  I had Googled FABER, but got nothing medical.

My Stedman's ortho is Third Edition, which I thought was latest or have they
brought out a new one I missed!

Barb C.
"Barbara Carlson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Corrections

text:
Steadman's Ortho is now 5th edition, not sure of the publication date.
I bought the 4th edition in 2003.  Steadman's puts their updates out a
lot more often than they used to.  I'm not sure how much of an update
they really are.  Due to the cost, I tend to only update the specialties
I absolutely use the most (pharmaceutical), and rely on the internet for
the rest.  I found I was spending a fortune on reference books every
year, but many of the references were never being used.

I'm wondering how a person would know if a dictator meant FABER OR
FABERE?  Brenda

Barbara Carlson wrote:


author: Kathycarp

subject: Re: Corrections

text:
FWIW, Sloane's Medical abbreviations & eponyms has both of them (FABER and
FABERE) all caps.


subject: Re: Corrections

text:
I don't try to keep all my reference books current--get the drug book, but
my two best clients, and probably 70% to 80% of my work is Ortho, so I try
to keep that reasonably current.  I guess I will have to bite the bullet and
update mine.

I would think there would be a slight difference in pronunciation between
FABER and FABERE.  Faber is pretty straight forward, but  FABERE could be
FABAIR, or FABERAY.    Anything that remotely could be transcribed for this
doc as FABER is what he is going to get!

Nobody but a medical transcriptionist would be so concerned.  When I get
corrected, I just want to be sure I get it right.  Is it called anal
retentive?

Barb C.
"Brenda C. Nygren" <[email]> wrote in message
news:csN8g.8688$[email]...


author: Neal

subject: Re: Corrections

text:
There is a difference between the two.  Here is what my 1985 Manual of
Orthopaedic Terminology shows:

FABER:  flexion in abduction and external rotation

fabere sign:  for testing lower back or sacroiliac joint disorder by
using a forced position of the hip; the letters stand for flexion,
adduction, external rotation in extension.  Also called Patrick test,
fadir sign.

(Note that FABER is flexion in abduction.
fabere is flexion in adduction.)

Neal

Barbara Carlson wrote:


subject: Re: Corrections

text:
I thought there was a difference, too, which is why when he pronounced it
"fabray" and he never had before, I thought he must mean fabere.  I swear
I'm never going to give him fabere no matter how he pronounces it in the
future, unless he specifically says this time he means the other one!  Since
they are both acronyms, I would think they would both be all caps.  My third
edition ortho does not list it as an acronym, just f. sign and f. test, with
the word febere in all lower case.

Barb C.
"Neal" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Renaud Langis

subject: Re: SAS help

text:
On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:07:22 -0500, Ya-Fen Lo <[email]>
wrote:

You can use the TEST statement in proc GLM. May be also in proc ANOVA. Do you
simply want to know if an effect is significant? if so, just check the ANOVA
table.

I suppose this is just a typing error but CLASSES should be written CLASS.

R


author: Joseki

subject: Re: In the News: Frist voices support for intelligent design

text:
Dr. Frist couldn't diagnose Terry Schiavo's problems correctly by
looking at a video, why should his opiniion on something he has NO
training in be any better?  The means to me more than ever we need to
insiste  the third alternative "Unintelligent Design" must be taught
along the other two.  I think pointing out what a bonehead this
designer is repeatly and in textbooks might just convince the "teach
the controversy" folks to shut up.


author: Bobby D. Bryant

subject: Re: In the News:  Frist voices support for intelligent design

text:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Jason Spaceman <[email]> wrote:

A politician caters to the views of his supporters... how shocking.


author: rms

text:
Frist will be a laughing-stock in 2008.
The left will laugh recalling Schiavo and the right will laugh recalling his
stem-cell flip-flop.

rms


author: David Jensen

text:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:08:25 +0000 (UTC), in talk.origins
[email] (Bobby D. Bryant) wrote in
<de5s9o$nd8$[email]>:

Is science optional for an MD now?


author: AC

text:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:42:39 GMT,
rms <[email]> wrote:

Frist has no values so far as I can tell.  He self-servingly follows what he
believes to be the path of least resistance.


author: Earle Jones

text:
In article <[email]>,
 David Jensen <[email]> wrote:

*
Some congressmen are leaders; some are followers.

Frist follows.

earle
*


author: John Harshman

text:
David Jensen wrote:

It always was. I remember teaching comparative vertebrate anatomy. The
classic sign of a premed was the question "What exactly do I have to
memorize to get an A in this course?", or words to that effect; what
they wanted was a list of terms they could learn by rote. Evolution?
Don't know and don't care.


author: Apostate

text:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:22:53 -0500, David Jensen <[email]> wrote:

	It could always be a minor.

	But honest speech and advocacy is very much optional for Republican leadership.
	'Specially those courting the Evanjellycull bloc in '08.


author: Brian E. Clark

text:
In article <[email]>, David
Jensen said...

Honesty is always optional for Frist.


author: Phil.

text:
John Harshman wrote:

I don't know how long ago that was but it hasn't changed much!


author: pieter mioch

subject: fukyuuin

text:
Hi

Can't think of anything to translate 「普及員」with. I'm
doing a text about people training fukyuuin in Africa in
order to raise living standards. I thought about going with
"instructor" but that doesn't seem right.
Another word in the text was a first for me 「苗畑」which I
think reads "Naehata" I translated it as "seedling
plantation" but I'm not very happy with that either. Any
help much appreciated,

TIA

pieter


author: Jim Breen

subject: Re: fukyuuin

text:
pieter mioch wrote:

Eijiro only has: 農業改良普及員 agricultural extension worker

See http://www.agnet.org/library/eb/200a/  About halfway down there
is a summary of what an extension worker does. Googling for "普及員とは"
brings up a few links which are consistent with this.

It's なえばたけ. Koujien: 苗を育てる畑。


subject: Re: fukyuuin

text:
wow, that was fast, thanks!

I did have a go at googling yesterday but wasn't nearly as
successful as you, that is to say, I am not (that)lazy, only
へた....
I did though find a Japanese site instructing children on
the ins and outs of agriculture, they gave "NaeHata" as
reading. Perhaps there's two readings in use, well
thanks again

pieter

Jim Breen wrote:


author: Bart Mathias

subject: Re: fukyuuin

text:
pieter mioch wrote:

Very interesting.  Google turns up about as many なえはた as it does
「苗畑」
while all I saw in my  なえばたけ search were some なえばs.

But the URL for お金の苗畑 is furenbo.iinaa.net/naehatake.html.

Then if one tries "naehatake" in romaji, at least the first 20 hits are
in fact that URL!

You go figure.  I don't want to.

Bart


author: Tedd Jacobs

subject: Definition of 'Archaeology'

text:
lets play a little game here:

who wants a definition of archaeology?


author: Eric Stevens

subject: Re: Definition of 'Archaeology'

text:
On Tue, 16 May 2006 21:45:49 -0600, "Tedd Jacobs"
<[email]> wrote:

Let me guess.

Nobody?                             :-)

Eric Stevens


author: Dylan Sung

subject: Re: Definition of 'Archaeology'

text:
"Tedd Jacobs" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Archaeology is an -ology. It's the study of "archea", which is thusly
derived:

archea /a:ki'a/ whence /a:k/ > ark or Ark of the Covenant, which is a
watchword for anything of a holy inspiration thus lately it pertains to the
Holy Grail. Hence, archaeology - the study of all things to do with the Holy
Grail.

;-)
Dyl.


author: Michael Kuettner

subject: Re: Definition of 'Archaeology'

text:
"Dylan Sung" <[email]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:e4fe23$3el$[email]...

Err, no.
"Archaeo" means "old man", from Vulgar Latin "Archae-os", lit. "old bone".
"logos" means study.
Ergo it's the study of old person's problems.
That means that hernia operations, Alzheimer and penile dysfunctions are on topic
here.
An Archaeologist is thusly the person with the latex gloves who checks your prostata.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner


author: Transition Zone

subject: Re: Inaction in the face of global warming imperils our survival

text:
On Jan 24, 2:43 pm, Desertphile <[email]>
wrote:

When repubs get back in office,it makes you wonder what new horrors
are on the horizon.


author: dentarry

text:
"Transition Zone" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On Jan 24, 2:43 pm, Desertphile <[email]>
wrote:

When repubs get back in office,it makes you wonder what new horrors
are on the horizon.
======================================

Really?
I was fearing the horror of a warmist/leftist carbon tax to "fight" mythical
manmade warming.
What horrors are you talking about?

Warmest Regards

B0nz0

"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation."
Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville

"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip
now due to mankind. The planet has a natural thermostat"
Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, Professor of Meteorology MIT,
Former IPCC Lead Author

"It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you
have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your
side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is
wrong. Period."
Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics

"A core problem is that science has given way to ideology. The scientific
method has been dispensed with, or abused, to serve the myth of man-made
global warming."
"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips

"Computer models are built in an almost backwards fashion: The goal is to
show evidence of AGW, and the "scientists" go to work to produce such a
result. When even these models fail to show what advocates want, the data
and interpretations are "fudged" to bring about the desired result"
"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips

"Ocean acidification looks suspiciously like a back-up plan by the
environmental pressure groups in case the climate fails to warm: another try
at condemning fossil fuels!"
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/threat-ocean-acidification-greatly-exaggerated

Before attacking hypothetical problems, let us first solve the real problems
that threaten humanity. One single water pump at an equivalent cost of a
couple of solar panels can indeed spare hundreds of Sahel women the daily
journey to the spring and spare many infections and lives.
Martin De Vlieghere, philosopher

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that
it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of
mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."
Bertrand Russell


text:
"Transition Zone" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On Jan 24, 2:43 pm, Desertphile <[email]>
wrote:

When repubs get back in office,it makes you wonder what new horrors
are on the horizon.
======================================

Really?
I was fearing the horror of a pointless warmist/leftist carbon tax to
"fight" mythical manmade warming.
What horrors are you talking about?

Warmest Regards

B0nz0

"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation."
Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville

"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip
now due to mankind. The planet has a natural thermostat"
Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, Professor of Meteorology MIT,
Former IPCC Lead Author

"It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you
have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your
side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is
wrong. Period."
Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics

"A core problem is that science has given way to ideology. The scientific
method has been dispensed with, or abused, to serve the myth of man-made
global warming."
"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips

"Computer models are built in an almost backwards fashion: The goal is to
show evidence of AGW, and the "scientists" go to work to produce such a
result. When even these models fail to show what advocates want, the data
and interpretations are "fudged" to bring about the desired result"
"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips

"Ocean acidification looks suspiciously like a back-up plan by the
environmental pressure groups in case the climate fails to warm: another try
at condemning fossil fuels!"
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/threat-ocean-acidification-greatly-exaggerated

Before attacking hypothetical problems, let us first solve the real problems
that threaten humanity. One single water pump at an equivalent cost of a
couple of solar panels can indeed spare hundreds of Sahel women the daily
journey to the spring and spare many infections and lives.
Martin De Vlieghere, philosopher

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that
it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of
mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."
Bertrand Russell


author: Pattie Kealy

subject: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Hello, everyone

I just found the term "Webmestre" on the French government site
http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/
(It shows up on the results page after you do a search). Is this the term
commonly used in France for "webmaster"? Is it used in Canada as well? Hmm!

Pattie


author: John Woodgate

subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
<[email]>, Meri <[email]> inimitably
wrote:

Oh, all right, then! See the .sig below.


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
<[email]>, Meri <[email]> inimitably
wrote:

It is in the folder for the January update, but I hadn't enough other
material to send out. I'll send what I've got, tomorrow evening. The
February update will certainly not appear on the 1st, because the folder
is empty at present and anyway I shall be away from home.


author: Iomega-is-crap

subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:13:44 GMT, in article
<sTqb6.50584$[email]>, Pattie Kealy said...

Yes.
See: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/_fs_global_01.htm


author: Meri

subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
I know quite a few of them...and hate to be called "webmestre".
Webmestre is official in both Canada (OLF) and France (Le Journal
Officiel), can't remember if it is for ISO though. I find "maï¿½tre de
toile" much nicer. They usually just say administrateur de rï¿½seau ou de
site...ou webmaster. Better to use the official term though - it does
get used.

Meri

Pattie Kealy wrote:


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Dear John, (the tingle hasn't worn off yet)

Yes...ok. Would it be possible (one more time, as I'm sure you are asked
frequently) to post the URL for the FAQ ? I promise to bookmark
it...Pretty pleeeeeeezzzzeeeee ?

On her knees,
Meri

John Woodgate wrote:


author: Viviane

subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
"Iomega-is-crap" <[email]> a ï¿½crit dans le message news:
[email]...
term
Hmm!

 Ou encore ici... http://www.otiaq.org/fr/index.html


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:53:15 +0100, in article
<[email]>, Meri said...

Tout ï¿½ fait normal, n'ï¿½tes-vous pas <b>traducteur</b>? =:-O
(L'ajout de balises html ne doit servir qu'ï¿½ protï¿½ger votre innocence.)

Maï¿½tre de toile? Vous blaguez j'espï¿½re.

Administrateur de rï¿½seau ou de site n'a rien ï¿½ voir avec la gestion, la
conception ou l'entretien d'un site web.

N'encouragez pas la paresse et sachez rï¿½sister devant l'impï¿½rialisme
culturel anglo-saxon ! ;-)

Webmestre fut proposï¿½ ï¿½ l'OLF en 1993. Je l'utilise personnellement
depuis 1991. N'est-ce pas que le danger croit avec l'usage?


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Il n'y a pas si longtemps, j'ai postï¿½ une liste (assez longue)de toutes
mes sources en-ligne pour la terminologie "Internet".

Je suppose que la liste est dans le FAQ ?
Honte sur moi, je ne sais pas comment m'y rendre !

Meri

Viviane wrote:


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:21:47 GMT, in article
<[email]>, Viviane said...
-------------------snip--------------------
Quelle ironie ! ;-)
WEBMESTRE --> mailto:[email]
Cordonnier mal chaussï¿½?
mouhahaha !


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Iomega-is-whatever,

And your point is...?

Je dis que le terme webmestre (mis entre "" pour montrer que c'est bien
du terme que je parle)est le terme officiel au Canada (OLF) et en France
(J.O.). Pattie voulait aussi avoir des renseignements sur l'usage du
terme. Bon. Alors ? Il y a un problï¿½me ?

Meri, sur les nerfs (pas fumï¿½ depuis 5 jours !)

Iomega-is-crap wrote:


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:20:33 +0100, in article
<[email]>, Meri said...

Erratum: Iomega-is-crap.

Chï¿½re "Maï¿½tresse de toile", relisez mon intervention !
Allumez s'il le faut.

------------------snip-------------


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Vous ï¿½tes le diable en personne !

Meri, qui tient le cou ;o)

Iomega-is-crap wrote:


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:05:33 +0100, in article
<[email]>, Meri said...
Le "cou" de qui? :-/

Peu importe, ï¿½a marche? =:-O

------------snip-----------


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Iomega,

C'est compliquï¿½...la plupart du temps je me tiens le cou ï¿½ moi-mï¿½me.
Pour le coup, et le reste du temps, j'ai tendance (et tord) de le tenir
assez tordu, et ï¿½ tous les coups (comme au mien), sous la coupe du
fourbe coupeur-ï¿½-ï¿½-coups au cou simultanï¿½ment tordant et pendant...tout
ce temps, sous le coup de minuit...les mains se retiennent loin et hors
du cou et mes yeux vous font signe, ils vous disent du cil docile, coo
coo...

sinon, ï¿½a va.

Meri, au plafond

Iomega-is-crap wrote:


subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:12:42 +0100, in article
<[email]>, Meri said...

Par ï¿½jection ou injection?
Laissez tomber l'aiguille, mï¿½chez plutï¿½t la feuille !
-Iomega-is-crap
---


author: Meri Rochelle

subject: Re: "Webmestre" (French)

text:
Nooo silly,

Les aiguilles de la mï¿½decine chinoise...

Merily,
en vous souhaitant une bonne nuit.

Iomega-is-crap wrote:


author: Alan Godfree

subject: Meeting - Microbial processes in waste and wastewater treatment

text:
Microbial Processes in Waste and Wastewater Treatment
=========================================

INTRODUCTION
The Society for Applied Bacteriology is holding a one day meeting on the subject
of microbiological processes in waste and wastewater treatment.  This meeting
will examine the underlying microbial processes involved in the treatment of a
variety of wastes thereby enabling a better understanding of the total process.
It will be of interest to those involved in the design and operation of waste
treatment facilities as well as researchers interested in microbial pathways,
bioremediation and control.

PROGRAMME
Reed beds/constructed wetlands	A Warren, Natural History Museum

Waste stabilisation ponds	D Mara, University of Leeds

Microbial generation/treatment 	P Luton & R Sharp, CAMR, Porton Down
of landfill leachates

Activated sludge process, with	A Boon, Hyder Environmental
particular reference to biological
nutrient removal

Composting			E Stentiford, University of Leeds

Membrane bioreactors		T Stephenson & S Judd, Cranfield University

Tertiary treatment of wastewater	P Daniels, Sunwater Ltd
by means of UV disinfection

Bioremediation using selected	R Walter, IBS Viridian Ltd
organisms

There will be a poster display.  Anyone wishing to present a poster should send
an abstract of approximately 250 words by 22 September 1997 to the address given
below.

DATE AND VENUE
The meeting will take place on Wednesday 22 October 1997, commencing at 10.00,
at the Central Public Health Laboratory, 61 Colindale Avenue, London.  The fee
is ï¿½40 (student rate ï¿½20) which covers attendance, refreshments and lunch.
Bookings received after Monday 29 September will be subject to a late booking
fee of ï¿½10.

Booking forms available from:

Dr Ann Baillie
Society for Applied Bacteriology
PO Box 510, Harrold
Bedford, MK43 7YU
United Kingdom

Fax  +44 1234 720048
E-mail:  [email]


author: Reg Edwards

subject: Whereas I give it away

text:
For free, high-quality radio design software download from :-

http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp


author: William Stacy

subject: Re: new silent cars dangerous for blind people

text:
An interesting post for sci.med.vision...

Anyway I was kind of startled when my friend first departed in his Prius
(sp?). It was spooky to "hear" him depart in relative silence.  I don't
think sighted people mind this, in fact it's kind of desirable. But for
blind people, I can see that it could be a hazard.  I'd suggest the
possibility of some kind of electronic emitter that could be linked to
something like a cell phone set on vibrate, and it could vibrate
differently for approaching, nearby , more distant, stationary vehicles,
etc. Maybe a better approach would be to build a sensor that detects the
electromagnetic field that those big electric motors must emit, and at
least signal some kind of warning to the wearer.  At least that approach
wouldn't necessarily require modifications to all the vehicles.

Maybe our resident engineering expert will weigh in on this subject...

w.stacy, o.d.


author: A Lieberman

text:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:49:06 GMT, William Stacy wrote:

He won't.....

Doesn't work on the box camera theory nor will explain why the chicken
crossed the road.

Allen


author: Robert Redelmeier

text:
William Stacy <[email]> wrote:

I'm sighted, but I'm not sure that the severely visually
impaired use their hearing in any way comparable to us
sighted people.

The hybrids may not make the traditional engine roar,
but they still make some noise.  The tires will always
be noisy, and electric motors make their own noises,
particularly as they wind up.

To assist them, I'd suggest a small electronic device similar
to those used to measure room sizes, but with tactile or audio
(doppler) reporting.  A slightly more sophisticated device
could be built with multiple sensors and binaural feedback.

-- Robert  (who hesitates to mention he is also an engr)


author: Robert Kopp

text:
"Robert Redelmeier" <[email]> wrote
.
The advantages of quiet cars to non-handicapped people are obvious.
Hopefully the means of warning handicapped people of their approach will not
make the cars noisier, at least not continuously.


author: Cincinnati Electronics

subject: Acoustic noise meter?

text:
I am looking for manufacturers of acoustic noise meters that are
sensitive to 20db and give frequency information. I have found only one
source in the Thomas Register.


author: J.Scott Knight

subject: Re: Acoustic noise meter?

text:
In article <3h61o1$[email]>, [email] (Cincinnati
Electronics) wrote:

Not having much info to go on. I have several suggestions:

1) Buy a spectrum analyzer and a microphone.  This option is costly
upfront unless you already have an analyzer.  It is much more flexible and
has the potential to be much more accurate epecially if you want to look
at
closely spaced tones.  Bruel&Kjaer, Genrad, and many others make microphones
suitable for work that needs calibration.

2) An issue of Speaker Builder had a project that turned a Radio Schack
noise meter into a narrow band sound analyzer.  This option is cheap,
but may be inaccurate for your purposes.

3) Hire an acoustical consultant to take your measurements.  This may
alos be costly, but you have the added benefit of not only taking acoustic
data but helping solve your problem.  There are several acoustic
consultants in the Cincinnati area.

I may be biased towards the last one, since my company does applied R&D as
acoustical consultants :)  But, on the other hand, acoustics is more complicated
than many engineers realize.

Feel free to email if you have any questions.

-- Scott

_____________________________________________________________________________
Scott Knight    ( [email] )
BBN Systems and Technologies
Structural Acoustics
New London, CT 06320
_____________________________________________________________________________


author: Kevin Rhodes

subject: Re: Acoustic noise meter?

text:
In <3h61o1$[email]> [email] (Cincinnati
Electronics) writes:

A brain is a terrible thing to waste and mine must be wasted.  I was
using a Type 1 sound level meter quite extensively back in '89 and I
cannot for the life of me remember the manufacturer.  I did manage to
find one for you though.

The meter is made by CEL and is available from Mitchell Instrument, San
Marcos, CA, 619-744-2690.  It is type 1 and capable of 5 to 140 dB, A&C
weighting and will do octave and 1/3 octave frequency analysis. The
octave band meter goes for about $4400 and the 1/3 octave band for about
$5400.

The gold standard in these meters is Bruel & Kjaer (sp?).  They went for
at least twice that in '89.

Since I'm in your neck of the woods, give me a call if you feel like it
and I'll tell you what little I still know.

Kevin

Kevin H. Rhodes, P.E.		Rhodes Engineering Corporation
11838 Arbor Run				       Walton, KY  41094
(606) 485-1737		Voice
(606) 485-1651		Facsimile
Engineering is the art of doing that well with one dollar, which any
bungler can do with two after a fashion.  Arthur Mellen Wellington


author: T.T. Cockerill

subject: Re: Acoustic noise meter?

text:
[email] (J.Scott Knight) writes:

If you have access to a relatively modern Apple Mac (or a PC with a
sound card), it's possible to use this as a basic spectrum analyser,
which might do the trick.

You record sound samples using the built in sound input port, and then
feed the data through some suitable software to get the
spectrum. One example is Mathworks Matlab, although there are a few
shareware offerings around that allegedly will do (I've never managed
to get them to work personally).

I'm afraid I've no idea of how accurate such a set up would be. To
some extent it would depend on the particular machine you were
using. Accurate calibration might also be difficult, especially as
some Macs seem to have an automatic gain control on the sound input port.

engineers realize.

Quite true. And I should point out that I'm one of the many, so don't
hold me responsible if it doesn't work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Cockerill,                    [email]
Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, UK


author: Kerry Kingsbury

subject: Sears 230/140 Stick Welder

text:
Don't laugh, it does a fine job as far as this beginner is concerned.  I
have a trailer or two to weld and a few other projects that have never been
started because I needed a welder to complete them properly. The 300$ price
tag and availability helped in the decision too.
    In using it I have found the "plug" on the end of the welding cable to
be pretty poor in the durability end.  The insulator piece you are supposed
to grasp to plug in or disconnect doesn't really attach to the cable
conductor. Looks like it was sonically welded (a plastics process that uses
high freq sound waves to melt the plastic to grasp knurling on the metal
parts) to the connector plug.  A twist to loosen the plug after a project
and the insulator now is worth less as a handle.  It still does tell me
which is ground and hot (black or red color).
    The local supply shop sent me back out the door when I asked if they had
better fittings.  I was hoping to buy a cable connector now or at least find
out if I could buy a new set of cables to use on it.  "Gotta go to Sears for
those parts" is what I was told.  We all know Sears does not make a thing.
They do re-label a lot though. My question, after all this, is who makes it
for them?

    To help their website is http://www.sears.com/sr/mercado/searchall.jsp
and if you click on the product name "230/140 Arc Welder" it will take you
to another page that has a larger photo.  Thanks for the help in advance.

I tried to post the pic here but no binaries.


subject: Re: Sears 230/140 Stick Welder

text:
"Kerry Kingsbury" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Kerry,
If it's not a Century Model 84231, 230 Amp A/C & 140 Amp D/C Arc
Welder see at:
http://www.centuryonline.net/catalogue/catalogue.asp?productID=3&catagoryID=5&modelID=23
it's a pretty good imitation!

Service: http://www.centuryonline.net/locator/service.html

Mike


author: Steve

subject: Re: Sears 230/140 Stick Welder

text:
"Kerry Kingsbury" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

It's probally a Century welder. You can get thier support number at
www.centuryonline.net. Have your serial number ready. They'll probally
send you a new one under warrenty.


author: Roger Duncan

subject: Re: Sears 230/140 Stick Welder

text:
Go to large home improvment store and buy a replacment plug.
Electrical supply also sells replacment plugs. Replacment plugs are
not molded onto wire but do clamp onto electrical cord. Replacment
plugs are not  water proof as molded plugs so if it is droped into
water be sure to dry before using.


subject: Re: Sears 230/140 Stick Welder

text:
Thanks Mike, I believe you are right.  Another sent me a similar reply.  The
question now is does Century have better cable ends to put on replacement
cables?  The electrode/ground end is ok but the end that plugs into those
holes for the various outputs are really pretty poorly made.  At least I'm
on the right track now.

"Mike_P" <[email]> wrote in message
http://www.centuryonline.net/catalogue/catalogue.asp?productID=3&catagoryID=
5&modelID=23


author: Dave Kenworthy

subject: Most-read space history books?

text:
In one of our our often-mutating threads, Paul Madarasz said of 'Red Star in
Orbit':

    I've just about worn the words off my copy from reading it so much.
    When's the new edition coming out?

I am curious as to which books we go back to time after time....I'm on my
third copy of  'A man on the moon', 'Deke' would be up there except it's
perhaps not readily available enough to risk reading in the bath (which is
what usually leads to the demise of my paperbacks...Chaikin included).

What are other people's regular reads?

DK


author: goof

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Am 3/4 of the way through Gene Kranz' "Failure is not an Option".  He always
seems like a sincere guy in interviews.  I wanted to get his perspective on
the moon effort.  If I was a shrink I would say that he is a little obsessed
with the aerospace thing.  He has no reservation in admitting that there
were plenty of people around him that were more talented and brilliant
intellectually, but he makes a contribution through discipline and hard
work.  Seems like he was fast-tracked into the role of flight director,
probably because management realized that he had the maturity and ability to
handle the stress....as well as a talent for designing procedure manuals,
and he put in the hours to learn the mechanical systems in detail.


author: Mike McCartney

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Got to be "To a Rocky Moon" by Don E. Wilhelms and then "Stages to Saturn" by
Roger E. Bilstein.

Mike McCartney


author: Neil Gerace

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
"Dave Kenworthy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:asrb89$mih$[email]...

Moonport (on the NASA history website)

rgds
Neil


author: Pat Flannery

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Dave Kenworthy wrote:

 Ron Miller's " The Dream Machines" is always fun to spend hours getting
lost in, and pretty much my first stop when I'm trying to find something
obscure.... "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space Technology",
"Encyclopedia of US Spacecraft", "Rockets of the World" and
"Cosmonautics: a Colorful History" are other faves in the space
category; and Gunston's "Rockets and Missiles" and Zaloga's "Soviet Air
Defense Missiles" are two of my faves in the missile department- I'm
still waiting for someone to do THE big book of all the Soviet/Russian
missile projects and types, now that enough data is available on them.
Although I don't own a copy, "Challenge To Apollo" by Siddiqi was one of
the most impressive books I ever read....and nominate either him or
Zaloga for the job....at gunpoint if necessary; as I REALLY want to see
that book.

Uncle Joe
Moskva


author: OM

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 23:18:33 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Kenworthy"
<[email]> wrote:

...In no particular order:

1) "A Man on the Moon" - Chaikin
2) "Deke!" - Cassutt
3) "Korolev" - Harford
4) "The Right Stuff" - Wolfe (*)
5) "Liftoff!" - Collins
6) "Voyage!" - Baxter
7) "Moon Shot" - Barbree & Benedict (**)
8) Asif's Extremely Heavy book on the Soviet Race to the Moon :-)

(*) Zen Philosophy: One must experience trash to be able to appreciate
diamonds.

(**) And then there's Pu238 vs diamonds...

				OM


author: John Beaderstadt

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
"Dave Kenworthy" <[email]> on Fri, 6 Dec 2002
23:18:33 +0000 (UTC), which said:

Carrying the Fire, Collins
Apollo, Murray & Cox
The Moon Hunters, Klueger
Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight, Newkirk
Lost Moon, Lovell

Note, these aren't "regular reads," but are the titles I most-often
turn to for answers.

---------
Beady's 9th Law of Social Harmonics:  "Never dress better than the jury."


author: Kevin Willoughby

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Dave Kenworthy said:

Chaiken.
Deke!
David Baker's History Of Manned Space Flight (at least for the American
side of things. His Soviet history is quite different from what is now
known.)
Collin's Carrying the Fire
Jenkin's Shuttle (haven't bought the most recent edition, tho)
Kelly's Moon Lander
Thompson's At the Edge of Space
Harford's Korolev

I expect to add the next edition of Red Star in Orbit to this list. The
original edition is at least as dated as Baker's.


author: Jonathan

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
In message <[email]>, John
Beaderstadt <[email]> writes

Is "The Moon Hunters" the same as "Journey beyond Selene" or is that
another book I should be looking out for?
The book I go back to more than most is "Into Orbit", which is much too
precious to live in the bathroom!


author: Ron Miller

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Willy Ley's Rockets, Missiles and Men in Space

Von Braun and Ordway's Space Travel: A History

Rynin's Interplanetary Flight and Communication

RM


author: Rick DeNatale

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
In article <asrb89$mih$[email]>, Dave Kenworthy
<[email]> wrote:

In no particular order:

Baker's History of Manned Spaceflight (too heavy and irreplaceable for
bathtub reading)
Deke!
A Man on the Moon
NASA's "This New Ocean"
Project Mercury and Gemini SEDRs

Probably Burrough's "This New Ocean" will be there too, but I'm still
reading it for the first time.


author: Peter Smith

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Mike McCartney <[email]> wrote...
Saturn" by

Has nobody mentioned "Apollo - the Race to the Moon" by Murray and Cox?
I thought it was de rigueur around here. (And a top read too.)

- Peter


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
In article <[email]>, OM
<om@CT_is_a_troll_AND_a_putz.too> wrote:

Actually, Tom Wolfe's  book is not bad. It was the movie treatment
which I find more questionable, although it's still a guilty pleasure
and pops into my DVD player from time to time.


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
OM wrote:

Whoops... I forgot that one...that's a good one.....I went into the
bedroom a had a look at the "Space- Civilian, and Astronomy" and
"Military- Ground Forces, Missiles, and Intelligence Operations"
bookcases, but forgot "Korolev" was out in the living room in the "World
History- Political and Personalities" bookcase next to "Thread of the
Silkworm". Maybe I should start numbering the books, library style.
Pat


author: Greg D. Moore (Strider

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
"Kevin Willoughby" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I've read about 1/2 of the above.

I'd definitely pick up the most recent edition of Jenkin's book.  I have yet
to read it, but so far it's great. (though I did find one error in there I
emailed him about. :-)

Seriously, I have all 3 editions and love it.  Got an autographed 3rd
edition for a friend (just so I could give him an excuse to return my 1st
edition. :-)

I think next I want to pick up Kelly's book and I really really need to read
Collin's book.

Another I'd add, which is outdated, but is still useful is the Almanac of
Soviet Manned Space Flight by Dennis Newkirk.

In my "read but wouldn't say are must haves"

Race
Genesis
Angle of Attack

In my "I have and have read 1/2 of but really need to read the rest"

To a Rocky Moon by Don Welheims


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
Jonathan <[email]> on Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:21:46
+0000, which said:

Never read "Selene."

---------
Beady's 9th Law of Social Harmonics:  "Never dress better than the jury."


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Ron Miller said:

This is on my want-list. Mostly for nostalgic reasons: I borrowed the
local library's copy several times. Ley's coverage of the pre-history
of spaceflight is still quite useful.

I was Christmas shopping today and bought something for myself. A copy
of one the first space books I ever read: The Making of a Moon by
Arthur C. Clarke.


author: MattWriter

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Burroughs is good, although the recurrent "evil military conspiracy"
implication is annoying, since he doesn't prove it.  He also repeats, without
evidence, the totally unsubstantiated claim that the Challenger launch was
forced to occur when it did so Reagan could talk to the crew during his state
of the Union speech.

MacDougall's ...the Heavens and the Earth is a monumental work that is always
useful, despite the new data on the USSSR program released since it was written
in 1985.

Matt Bille
([email])
OPINIONS IN ALL POSTS ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE AUTHOR


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Peter Smith said:

D'oh! Great book! One of the few that deals with how NASA was able to
*manage* Apollo. It would be on my list of most-read space books, and
reference works, except I don't have a copy. My local library does, so
every now and then...


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
"Peter Smith" <[email]> on Mon, 09 Dec 2002
13:03:51 GMT, which said:

*I* did, but you must not have been paying attention.

---------
Beady's 9th Law of Social Harmonics:  "Never dress better than the jury."


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
Rick DeNatale <[email]> on Sat, 07 Dec 2002 07:34:00 -0500,
which said:

It's certainly a "feel good" movie, and I do enjoy it.  I think,
though, that for me the lure is how well it captures the public's mood
at the time.

---------
Beady's 9th Law of Social Harmonics:  "Never dress better than the jury."


author: Rocky Top

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
Even better if you can read Russian is Golovanov's "Korolev, Facts and
Myths."
At exactly 800 pages it is the definitive Korolev biography.

ISBN 5-02-000822-2, 1994, Nauka Press, Moscow.

I've been waiting for 8 years for an English translation but have yet to
find one.

~RT


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" <[email]> said:

Both are strongly recommended. The Collins' book has recently been
republished in an inexpensive trade paperback. He does the best job of
any the astronauts at explaining what it is like to be an astronaut and
to fly in space.

Engineers love Kelly's book. Not sure if the general public would be
that enthralled.

My reaction to this book was quite lukewarm. Nothing wrong with it, but
I didn't learn much from it.

A good read, but not one of my references. A rather one-sided view of
the world. Reads more like a script than a biography.


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
John Beaderstadt <[email]> wrote from his bathroom...
Cox?

Sorry but I was out in the movie set looking for stars  ;)

- Peter


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:21:18 GMT, John Beaderstadt
<[email]> wrote:

...No. but I will admit a gaffe here. I wrote down my list, but failed
to put M&C on it even though I'm currently re-reading it. Argh!!!

				OM


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
John Beaderstadt said:

It is a movie not about character but caricatures. Consider it as a
live action, non-animiated, cartoon. It's fun.


author: Henry Spencer

subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
In article <[email]>,
Kevin Willoughby  <[email]> wrote:

Very obviously a failed movie script re-cast as a book to get something
out of it.


subject: Re: Most-read space history books?

text:
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
"Peter Smith" <[email]> on Mon, 09 Dec 2002
20:39:53 GMT, which said:

Damned conspirator.

---------
Beady's 9th Law of Social Harmonics:  "Never dress better than the jury."


date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 06:50 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)

author: Firebird

subject: Re: I wish people wouldn't talk about hepatitis in here..

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Saydee) wrote:

You mean you don't just put an X on a piece of paper, and drop it in a
box?

Alan


author: Saydee

text:
Firebird wrote:

LOL!  I have never voted using pencils.  Until today, I had never voted
by punching out holes in a card either.

Saydee


author: ~Pat~

text:
It's crazy but each area's method of voting largely depends on the funds
in that area.  Some people flip levers in little velvet curtained
booths.  Some get punchcards.  And others, like myself, made pencil
marks while standing at a wobbly chest-high cardboard podium.  There was
much talk of these differences late last night as the race grew tighter
and each side began to point out the faults that may have effected their
candidates.  This next week or so should be interesting, amusing and
irritating for the American voters.
Trish


author: Cmhdavid

text:
I've been voting for 30 years, and I've never punched cards, or wrote an X.
All we do is push a button.  After we have pushed them we push one that says
VOTE.
    David
                                 ~ http://members.aol.com/cmhdavid ~


author: Jeff Olsen

subject: Need service manual for Tek 465B 'scope

text:
I recently acquired a Tektronix 465B oscilloscope with the DM44
module.  This will be my first scope; however, it doesn't work...  There
is a very reputable local guy who has looked at and said that the power
supply and tube are fine, so it shouldn't be prohibitive to fix it, but
the service manual for this baby is almost $100.00.  Anybody have a copy
of this manual that I could beg, borrow, or copy?  I will of course pay
all costs incurred, including your time to copy it, or if someone wanted
to loan it I could send a deposit, or I could buy a "used" copy from you,
whatever works!

I deal mainly with audio frequencies so this scope is bit of overkill, but
I got a good deal on it and it looks like it'll be a great scope, when it
works...

My E-mail address is [email].  I will also check in on the groups,
although I'm not sure what the general interest in this will be.  I'm not
interested in trying to fix it myself; I don't have any test/calibration
gear...

Thanks in advance...     jeff olsen     [email]


author: Lon Stowell

subject: Re: Need service manual for Tek 465B 'scope

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Jeff Olsen) writes:

  What's busted on it?   Just one channel, the triggers, or what?

  Can you get any CRT output at all, even if it is just in one place?

  Post some details, as there a pretty common failure modes on that
  beast, such as the coax just needs to be soldered into that freakin
  board rather than just crammed in, that someone might be able to
  help with.

  Will dig around and see if I still have the manual, but it is over a
  couple inches thick, includes foldout pages, etc...would be
  expensive as heck to copy.

  Best bet if you are gonna fix it locally is to find a shop with a
  manual, they might also have the parts that fail often...or just
  fall outa those !@#!@# push-in sockets.


author: Michael A. Roberge

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Jeff Olsen) writes:

For test equipment manuals try the following:

  Manuals Plus   206-531-8031
  Ed Matsuda     619-479-0225

and/or get a copy of NUTS & VOLTS Magazine which list many surplus equipment
dealers. To order Nuts & Volts call 1-800-783-4624


author: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
Peter Barber wrote:

It is the source of eternal life.

Those with eternal life are immortal (free of disease).

Diabetes is a disease.

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing us of
diabetes, depression, anxiety, and panic so that we can love others a
little bit more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more dear neighbor Peter
whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><


author: Cary Kittrell

subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
In article <[email]> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email]> writes:

Are all who are saved now immortal, and now possess
eternal life?

-- cary


subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
Convicted neighbor Cary Kittrell wrote:

Incorrect.

(It will stop ringing because GOD has promised the brethren of LORD
Jesus Christ that what is asked for in Jesus' name will be done)

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety and panic so that we can love others a
little bit more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor Cary
whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><


author: Art Deco

subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email]> wrote:

Another concise statement of why you are a kook, Chunk.

Hope you never get a cold, fraudboi.


subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
Convicted neighbor Cary Kittrell wrote:

LORD Jesus Chist will continue to have HIS angels gently ring the
doorbell to your heart until you open the door.

HE will have them stop when you choose to invite HIM into your heart.

This is HIS timing.

Please consider yourself informed.

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing us of
diabetes, depression, anxiety, and panic so that we can love others a
little bit more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor Cary
whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><


subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
In article <[email]> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email]> writes:

Then I charitably hope that the "cure" for diabetes you tout
kicks in faster than your "cure" for my tinitus -- my condition
is nothing more than annoying; diabetes can kill.

-- cary


subject: Re: would you please leave? is asking nicely not enough?

text:
~tanya wrote:

The darkness in your world is the source of your difficulties.

The light of the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ, annihilates the
darkness.

The truth here is that starving children are not hungry and forcing
them to eat food while not hungry will kill them in a matter of hours
when they would have in most instances lived for several more days
continuing without.

The truth here is that those without GOD's peace which passes all
worldly understand will have angst coming from within instead of from
without.

In light of the truth, the question is being reflected back to you.

When you can have GOD's peace through HIS Son LORD Jesus Christ, why
reject it and stick with the sadism of satan, prince of lies ?

Simply look at satan's atheist Pastor Kutchie covered with his
ejaculate and demonstrating the sadism of the master whom he services.

See above.

Correct.  HE tells them what to do and they do it.  No play.

Einstein is dead.

LORD Jesus Christ is risen.

We have already talked on the phone so you have my number already.

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
depression, anxiety, and panic so that we can love our neighbors a
little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear Tanya whom I love
unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><


author: ~tanya

text:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

you are NOT ALLOWED to decide the source of my difficulities or even if
there ARE diffculties.

when you earn that right or i gift it to you, you'll be informed and
properly.

you are NOT ALLOWED to determine what my light is or even IF my light
is.

as a sidebar:  i am not in a dark place, i'm in a place that is more
brilliant than any place i've been in years.  the lord jesus christ is
yours, not to be inflicted on me.  THAT, too, is not allowed.

i won't decide what tastes good to you.  you don't decide what effects
the color of my world.

THAT is too fucked up for even ME to wrap myself around.  lemme get
this skrait:  starving people should not eat. starving people are not
hungry.  they're merely starving. introducing food is not an option.
force-feeding is.

**(i have this vision of some Unicef nurse in ethiopia hammerin' a tube
down folks throats and pumpin' oatmeal thru it... "TAKE THAT, YA
BASTARD")**

food kills. feeding the hungry will only decrease their life expectancy
from a few days to a few minutes.

oh, and while yer at it, leave tha antibiotics at tha curb, too.
wouldn't wanna think sick people were SICK, fer chrissake.

i do believe i just encountered the most idiotic and moronic statement
in my life to date.  please excuse me if i seem a bit stunned.

oh... and you ain't horny, yer just sex-deprived, you really don't
wanna fuck... forcing that angry inch into tha stuff dreams're made of
will surely leave ya dead when ya could'ah gone on a few more days with
mama thumb and her 4 daughters.

YER THE BIGGEST RETARD IN AMERICA !

welllllllllllll, whadd'ah ya know.  i've been ejumakated.

the truth is, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THA TRUTH.  tha truth is... angst is
angst and it don't make'ah good goddam whether it's comin' from north,
south, east, west, inside, outside, or merely inhabiting your body.
does you ass hurt worse when ya shove a baseball bat into it or when
yer pullin' it out. do tell.

yer talkin apples and apples, dumbass.

ok, i'll bite.  i DON'T want to do any of those things or any things
that will inhibit a healing arena for anyone.  i AM NOT sadistic.

now... see'f you can answer that question solo without your god card.

your vision of god vs. satan don't fit mine.  i don't judge all that.
i'm not talking about god or satan i'm talking about GOOD OLE YOU !
can ya go there without your "crutch?"  can ya actually talk about YOU
without a crutch ta lean on or do you even know who you are?  are you
capable of speaking for a stranger that is you? let's see'f ya can do
it. i do think you are not capable of bridging the gap of seperatism
you have created to avoid you and filled in with god.  god is your
bridge between the members of this planet and you.  you loathe yourself
too much to be responsible for you.  you have a safety net that no one
can question as it's not available for questioning.  you are safe from
you.  god makes you safe from that which you despise most. you.

i just figured it out.

who spoke that?  you or god?

you can't have it both ways at your convenience.

then why even get outta bed in tha morning?  yer life is as
pre-destined as those dice.  pre-determined, pre-destined, don't argue
semantics.

so is jezus.

point him out to me.  he's alive?  show me.

from what i heard?

"twas tha night b'fore easter and tha rock wouldn't roll."

could be'ah nasty rumor.

either way, show me this jesus dude.

if ya can't, he's as available as dead einstein, eh !

do you really think i kept your phone number?  you really think i kept
it????????  OMG.

thas too funny.

no, i did NOT keep your phone #, as a matter of fact, i never wrote it
down.

post it.  all that's gonna happen is what god's already figgered out
will happen.  what's it to ya.


subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
In article <[email]> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email]> writes:

Did Jesus say "Take up your bed and walk...HEY! I DIDN'T MEAN
RIGHT NOW!"?

Your inability to provide specifics for your claim of knowing the
timing of the cure of my tinitus is duly recorded.

-- cary


subject: Re: The Holy Spirit

text:
Convicted neighbor Cary Kittrell wrote:

If I were omniscient, I would be GOD.

It is expected in this ongoing ever closer walk with HIM that you would
confuse me with HIM.

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water healing us of
diabetes, depression, anxiety and panic so that we can love others a
little bit more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor Cary
whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><


author: dwlarson

subject: 70% ethanol

text:
Does anyone know why 70% ethanol kills microorganisms better than 100%
ethanol?  Thanks.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: 70% ethanol

text:
The nature of the answers in this thread have been disturbing both for
the lack of accurate information and for the unwarranted ad homenim
attacks.

First, ethanol is an effective disinfectant at any concentration
between 100% and 70%.  for certain bacteria and viruses.  It is
diluted with water to reduce the volatility to minimize risks of fire
and explosions.  Alcohol is used because it disinfects, cleans and
then evaporates quickly leaving very little trace.

http://www.man.ac.uk/policies/73D1d.htm

Second, methanol is added to ethanol reagents to deter human
consumption.  This is required by the government since ethanol for
consumption is taxed heavily.  The government does not want to tax
reagents used for industrial and medical purposes.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/service/sda/

Institutions, that store and use ethanol which is close to pure, need
special licenses, must keep the reagents in locked and maintain
records to account for its use and disposal. When harmful contaminents
are added to "denature" the alcohol the reporting and storage
requirements become less stringent.

Third, methanol by itself is not dangerous.  In the human body,
methanol is metabolized to formaldehyde and then to formic acid which
causes severe acidosis and concomitant tissue damage especially to the
eyes.  Methanol is often present in trace amounts along with ethanol
from natural fermentation and is tolerated in small amounts.  Ethanol
is administered as a treatment for methanol ingestion as one of
several other basic modalities..  Ethanol is metabolized
preferentially thus slowing the metabolism of methanol.

http://www.embbs.com/cr/alc/alc6.html

http://64.29.24.139/ep119/Methanol.htm

Fourth, the designation USP after a reagent name means that the
reagent meets the purity and properties listed in the United States
Pharmacopeia, which is a published standard scientific reference.  The
USP designation does not mean that a reagent is suitable for
manufacturing pharmaceuticals. It means the reagent meets a
well-defined, commonly accepted set of standards.  It is the case that
reagents which meet the UPS standards are often used for the
manufacture of pharmaceuticals and other chemicals as well.  The UPS
also contains the standards and test methods for vitamins and other
pharmaceuticals.

http://www.usp.org/

Fifth, when an ethanol/methanol mixture is used solely as a solvent
without becoming part of a new chemical compound, the denatured
mixture may be as suitable for use as pure ethanol.  If the alcohol
reacts with other reagents to form still another compounds, say an
ester or ether,  the mixture is not suitable since the end products
would be a mixture and not a single substance.

On 2 Mar 2002 20:00:45 -0800, [email] (dwlarson)
wrote:


subject: Re: 70% ethanol

text:
Supposedly because the aq. solution penetrates better.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy


author: Dave

subject: Re: 70% ethanol

text:
"dwlarson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

The water in the 70% ethanol hydrolyses the proteins making them easier to
denature

Dave


subject: No Moron - Re: 70% ethanol

text:
Wrong bozo.  amazing these idiots make up this crap and lie so easily.

Look in the CFR's, moron.  Methanol is not a denturant for ethanol.  If you
understood these at all, you'd know that denturants are meant to discourage
drinking by establishing a bitter taste and are speciifcally eatblished by
regulation - in the US by the FDA..  The ones authorized include Denatonium,
Brucine etc. - NOT methanol.

Methanol would not work because it is not impalatable at low conc'sand would
not even be toxic, if the purpose were to harm the drinker.  Ethanol is the
antidote fpor methanol poisoning.  Few poisons are dangerous as such idiot.
They al must undergo some chemical reaction to establsh toxicity.  AND idiot,
if you really understood this toxicity, you'd know that there would be none in
the presence of replete ethanol.

This moron is really fatuous in his lies, very entertaining.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy


author: R.I. Mateles

subject: Re: 70% ethanol

text:
The water in the ethanol may hydrate the proteins but it certainly does not
hydrolyze them.

Rich Mateles


author: Adamporins

subject: Re: 70% ethanol

text:
The opposite is true. 100% alcohol is hygroscopic and dessicates bacterial
cells. Dry cells are more reisistnat to virtually all types of killing agents,
as compared to wet cells.  70% alcohol or 60% or 80 % etc. has enough water to
prevent dessication of the target and permits the protein denatuation and lipid
dissolution to occur. Hence alcohol with water in it is more effective.

As most often used however alcohol swabs are useless beyond their physical
cleansing effect.  Ther alcohol evaporates so fast that it does not have time
to kill. Remember that killing is not an instantaineous process but a first
order phenomenon. The first order rate constant is a function of agent
concentration. And if the agent is quickly evaporating the concentration is
falling and so is the kill constant.


author: Birgit Lippek

subject: Re: 70% ethanol

text:
Absolute ethanol evaporates too fast, so it doesn't have any effect on
bacterias. 70% ethanol contains a part of water, therefore it evaporates not
so fast, the influence takes  a longer time and the microorganisms were
killed.
Birgit

"Noel Fong" <[email]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email]...