subject: Re: Barwell's Anti-Theism Dodge is stillborn

text:
"wbarwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Why are you trying to divert attention to ONE very tiny religious theology
when you promised you had a universal argument that disproved ALL of them?

Still pathetically trying to dodge the real issue, aren't you Barwell.

There's just no limit to your seaze and your cowardice.

"wbarwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

1. We haven't seen by anything you've written that the so-called class of
omni creator gods represent all or even most of the world's beliefs
concerning god.  Since not all claims concerning god are a matter of gods in
this class, your argument accomplishes nothing.  Plus since your entire
argument is an example of Russell's Class Fallacy, you're already dead on
your feet.

Actually it doesn't do that at all.  See if you can figure out why.

Why would that be, Barwell?  Do you honestly believe that just asserting
everything makes your case stronger?

Prove it.  So far, you haven't 'scrutinized' anything.  All you've done is
repost old arguments on omnipotence.

You're linking two notions and only offering an argument for one.  Your
omnipotence argument doesn't cover creation.  Hence, your argument fails on
the basis of logical validity.

Except it isn't.  So you're wrong there as well.

Not only do you forget pan-entheism, but you haven't proved your original
point even for the gods you originally specified.  Stating "this concept
fails" doesn't mean that a concept has failed.

The only thing that has failed here is you failing to provide an argument to
support your claim that the concept has failed.

Prove it.  Stop trying to accomplish with unsupported assertions what you
have no evidence or argument for.

Not by anything you've demonstrated, Barwell, since you've demonstrated
NOTHING.

Let's just cut to the chase.  You've got nothing going for you here but rank
assertions.  Since you have no argument, your essay is a waste of everyone's
time.


author: Gandalf Grey

subject: Re: Billy Barwell: No Argument.  Nothing but Assertion

text:
"wbarwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I'm not peddling ANY god, you pathetic little man.  Everyone here realizes
I'm not pushing theism in general or particular.  The only reason you're
trying to float that particular lie is that I've busted your lame 'universal
argument' and exposed you for the sickening fraud you really are.

Now, in a similarly pathetic attempt to avoid defending the drivel you've
posted, you're trying to paint a picture of me as a evangenlical.  That's
truly a laugh, Barwell.  I've spent more time goin after religious right
wingers than you could dream of.  I'd even have left you and your sad little
rants completely alone had it not been for your bragging about a universal
proof.

Unfortunately for you, Barwell, liars disgust me, regardless of which side
of the political fence they're on.  You've been lying through your teeth
about your god argument from the first, and I'm going to keep on slamming
you in the head with that until the cows come home.

"wbarwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

1. We haven't seen by anything you've written that the so-called class of
omni creator gods represent all or even most of the world's beliefs
concerning god.  Since not all claims concerning god are a matter of gods in
this class, your argument accomplishes nothing.  Plus since your entire
argument is an example of Russell's Class Fallacy, you're already dead on
your feet.

Actually it doesn't do that at all.  See if you can figure out why.

Why would that be, Barwell?  Do you honestly believe that just asserting
everything makes your case stronger?

Prove it.  So far, you haven't 'scrutinized' anything.  All you've done is
repost old arguments on omnipotence.

You're linking two notions and only offering an argument for one.  Your
omnipotence argument doesn't cover creation.  Hence, your argument fails on
the basis of logical validity.

Except it isn't.  So you're wrong there as well.

Not only do you forget pan-entheism, but you haven't proved your original
point even for the gods you originally specified.  Stating "this concept
fails" doesn't mean that a concept has failed.

The only thing that has failed here is you failing to provide an argument to
support your claim that the concept has failed.

Prove it.  Stop trying to accomplish with unsupported assertions what you
have no evidence or argument for.

Not by anything you've demonstrated, Barwell, since you've demonstrated
NOTHING.

Let's just cut to the chase.  You've got nothing going for you here but rank
assertions.  Since you have no argument, your essay is a waste of everyone's
time.


author: John Williams

subject: SSME question

text:
Hi,

Watching the Earthlight DVD recently, I saw a clear demonstration of how
the SSMEs burn almost invisibly, compared to, say, the solid boosters.
An almost transparent blue/yellow flame, but not much more, even to high
altitude.

Then last night looking through my shiny new copy of "Full Moon" which
has a high altitude shot of the Saturn V booster, this thing is traling
a huge plume, big rocket exhaust blasting out the back, your "typical"
rocket picture.

Qy question is this - weren't the SSMEs an evolution from the F-1
rockets used in Saturn?  Aren't they burning the same fuel?  In that
case, why would the SSMEs be almost invisible, but the Saturn F-1's have
a huge rocket plume?

Or have I missed the boat entirely with this one? :-)

Cheers,

John


author: Nikolaj Ravn Hansen

subject: Re: SSME question

text:
"John Williams" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Nope. The F-1 engines on the first stage of Saturn V burned a combination of
liquid oxygen and kerosene, whereas SSME burns liquid oxygen and liquid
hydrogen.

/niko


author: Justin Wigg

subject: Re: SSME question

text:
"John Williams" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

No, if anything they are an extension of the J-2 engines from the S-II and
S-IVB.  Several early orbiter designs featured J-2 engines before it was decided
to develop a new engine altogether.

Nope.  SSMEs burn hydrogen/oxygen whereas F-1s burned the dirtier combination of
RP-1 and LOX, hence the visible exhaust plume.  Ever notice how the exhaust
becomes invisible after S-IC sep?

Which brings me to a question I have long been meaning to ask (which should
really be in the history group - note followups).  After the J-2 ignition on the
S-II, a strange vapour-like contrail extends from the jettisoned S-IC for a
while.  What was this?  Some final fuel venting from the F-1s or an interaction
between the S-II's exhaust and the S-IC?


author: Damon Hill

subject: Re: SSME question

text:
[email] (John Williams) wrote in
<[email]>:

The recent night launch demonstrated this, except that the engines
themselves were a very bright star, sort of blue-white.  I imagine it was
from the incandescent interior.

--Damon


author: Jorge R. Frank

subject: Re: SSME question

text:
[email] (John Williams) wrote in <[email]>:

They're not burning the same fuel.  The SSMEs burn LOX/LH2, and the F-1 burns
LOX/kerosene.  If the SSME is an "evolution" of anything, it's the J-2 engine
used in the Saturn V second and third stages, which also burned LOX/LH2.


author: Alan Kilian

subject: How much I doubt that this is possible.

text:
A discussion about low power CPUs

Did you REALLY see this?
I don't think that this is possible.
How many volts can a lemon produce? 1.5, 2.0 Maybe?
Maybe a massivly parallel Lemon array? (MPLA)
Or maybe a Lemon with a 9 Volt battery in it?
Another possibility is one of those new Maxim chips that take 1.5 V and
step it up to 5 Volts. They only take 60 microamps so it might be possible.

                "Doubting" Alan Kilian


author: Mika Iisakkila

subject: Re: How much I doubt that this is possible.

text:
[email] (Alan Kilian) writes:

Not really, only a picture, but it was shown at some component trade
fair so I don't think that they'd get away with a fake. That must have
been almost 10 years ago.

HCMOS logic will run with less than 2V, but they're not exactly fast
at that voltage. I'm not that good at electrochemistry, but for
example magnesium has a normal potential of -2.4 V and silver 0.8 V,
so it should be possible to get more than three volts from a single
lemon. Anyway the thing was said to consume several lemons a day :-)


author: Jim Campbell

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Alan Kilian) writes:

	I think I've seen kits in toy stores which were digital clocks (with
	LCD displays) that were powered by potatoes with metal probes stuck
	in them. Maybe $10 or so, I don't remember. It was 3 or 4 years ago.

-jim


author: Keith Gallie

text:
Warren> What about rechargable lemons?

Recharable lemons are great but don't let them discharge all the way or they
develop memories.


author: Dave Horsfall

text:
|  > What about rechargable lemons?
|
| Recharable lemons are great but don't let them discharge all the way or they
| develop memories.

You really ought to refer to your National Lemonconductor handbook...


author: Griff Miller X7114

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Warren Burstein) writes:

And did anyone try tasting the discharged lemons?


author: Renate Ratlos

subject: German Bioterrorist lives in the USA

text:
Did you know about the German bioterrorist Ravi Roy?

Read http://www.ravi-roy.de

He lives in the USA.

He is responsible for mothers not having their cildren vaccinated.

These people bring infectuous diseases into the USA.

Stop these mass murderers!

RR


author: oN

subject: Re: German Bioterrorist lives in the USA

text:
Renate Ratlos <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

One clever in mass.
Good for kids!!!

Who?
Vaccinating stupidity?


author: Joel M. Eichen

text:
Renate Ratlos <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...

REPLY:

No I had his mixed up with the Italian bioterrorist, Ravi Oli.


text:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:34:28 +0100, "oN" <[email]> wrote:

So we found one more bioterrorist.

RR


text:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:22:44 -0500, "Joel M. Eichen" <[email]>
wrote:

Homï¿½opaths are worse.

RR


text:
Drop some nice civilased bombs on !

Renate Ratlos <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


text:
Renate Ratlos <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...

HOMO what????


text:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:58:40 +0100, "oN" <[email]> wrote:

Give your address.

RR


text:
oN <[email]> wrote in message news:aukhkf$5bl$[email]...

There is a great book about the firebombing of Dresden .......

It is called Shist Hausen Finf .......

Slaughterhouse Five ... Kurt Vonnegut .......


text:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 08:39:35 -0500, "Joel M. Eichen" <[email]>
wrote:

Sorry. Wrong keyboard.

"Homeopaths are worse."

RR


text:
Renate Ratlos <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
OK
I will send to you mine to your.


text:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:57:20 -0500, "Joel M. Eichen" <[email]>
wrote:

              ?      ?      5

Slaughterhouse = Schlachthaus

RR


text:
Dresden, Novi Sad, Baghdad...
Business is Business , including vaccinations, too.
Vaccinations are maybe worse!

Joel M. Eichen <[email]> wrote in message
news:auklkj$824ih$[email]...


text:
Renate Ratlos <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...

REPLY:

Oh good, the gay community has enough trouble already .......


author: Jan

subject: Cavitations

text:
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#cavitations

A: Cavitations are cavities, caves, holes left in the bone where previous
extractions have not completely healed. Once they form, the body cannot
penetrate them to heal the bone without surgical intervention. In other words,
for them to heal, they must be treated. Many dentists do not believe they
exist. Some people believe the world is flat, too. They are easily visible on
panographic x-rays. One text book called them healed sockets when they are
really unhealed sockets. As with many concepts, the profession has it
backwards.

http://www.drshankland.com/nico.html

http://www.tldp.com/issue/157-8/157rootc.htm


author: Dr. Steve

subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
Fn the sake of any Lay-people reading this. NICO and cavitation of
bone are not real entities. they are made-up entities allowing
dishonest people to take your money.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
Jan are they real?

Joel

On 18 Nov 2004 22:10:58 GMT, [email] (Jan) wrote:


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:50:57 GMT, Dr. Steve <[email]>
wrote:

Yep, whole heartedly agree with the above statement.

NICO doesn't exist, the 'cavitat' is a bogus instrument.

Run, don't walk, away....


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
See the proof that both Stee Mancuso and W_B are proven liars.

For the sake of any who wants to do their own research, keeping in mind the ADA
and most dentists here are liars.

Jan

A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie
was believed…When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the
masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its
speaker, a raving lunatic.   -Dresden James


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
No such entity as NICO or Bone cavitation
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
On 23 Nov 2004 00:07:40 GMT, [email] (Jan) wrote:

Stee Mancuso and Stee Fawks AND Stee Bronfeld are all always perfect
gentlemen ........


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:22:23 GMT, Steven Fawks
<[email]> wrote:

AND Bornfeld not Bronfeld!


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
And Steven Bornfeld not to be confused with Emily Bronte.    No similarity,
just Wuthering Heights comes to mind.

Gail


subject: Re: Cavitations

text:
On 23 Nov 2004 15:01:58 GMT, [email] (Advocate147) wrote:

I have had patients with WUTHERING teeth ........

Past tense of "weathering."

Joel


subject: Re: FemtoFarads

text:
Newsgroups: sci.misc
From: [email] (Michael Cook)
Subject: Re: FemtoFarads
Sender: [email]
Reply-To: [email]
Organization: Rockwell Collins, Cedar Rapids, IA

I thought that "boy" is the unit of measurement for a token of
appreciation to an employee for a job well done.

Hence, one can say "I got an 'atto-boy' from my boss last week."


author: Scott Hannahs

subject: Re: FemtoFarads

text:
Sure is, we measure atto-farad variations with a standard bridge
circuit.  Has been done for many, many years and is an extremely useful
technique for measuring strain, magnetization, and a whole host of other
physical phenomena.  The question might be, why are farads so large?
I am sure it has happened but has anyone ever measured a capacitance
on the order of a farad?  I know Fs are great in that all the units work
out nicely (of course the speed of light ends up large but so it goes.)
but capacitances and inductances (though I have worked with an 11 henry
magnet) are in general small while resistances end up what we thing of
as a reasonable value.  Or at least it keeps down idiotic comments (see
above)
Scott


author: Adams Douglas

subject: Re: FemtoFarads

text:
In <sth.677984584@slipknot> [email] (Scott Hannahs) writes:

At college, we once found in the basement of our physics building a
couple of oil capacitors which I think some body measured at 5 Farads.
Each was about the size of a 5 gallon plastic water bottle.


subject: Re: FemtoFarads

text:
1 Farad and above capacitors are not that uncommon, and are not much bigger
than standard electrolytics, i.e. 2 or 3 inches long.  Panasonic makes a
series of these that they call the "Gold Series", I believe.  Includes
5 Farad capacitors.

Applications include power backup for computers.

Paul Nelson
Bell Labs
Naperville, IL


author: Stephen E. Witham

subject: Re: FemtoFarads

text:
In <sth.677984584@slipknot> [email] (Scott Hannahs) writes:

My brother collected a farad's worth of surplus capacitors once.
A farad can be a lot of fun to discharge.

--Steve


author: train

subject: Re: the GPS myth almost mythbusted

text:
On Sep 20, 6:08 am, "Inertial" <[email]> wrote:

I thought AEA said it applies to all events or any two events, that
is, if the light reaches you first from an event you assume it
hapenned first.

Curious as to which events we know hapenned one before the other?


author: Inertial

subject: Re: the GPS myth almost mythbusted

text:
"train"  wrote in message
news:[email]...

Nope .. another misunderstanding on your part

Not at all

It depends on the separation (in space and time) between the events.


author: hanson

subject: Re: the GPS myth almost mythbusted

text:
.... the "train" rolled over Varney.... ahahahaha....
"Varney" "Inertial" <[email]> wrote;
train wrote:
Varney Inertial wrote:
train wrote:
Varney Inertial wrote:
train wrote:
Varney Inertial wrote:
hanson wrote:
Hey Varney, you finally begin to see the light!
Congrats!.... Indeed physics is about the interplay
of matter/mass IN 3D space AND Time. ... but
NOTHING happens, nothing moves, in space-time,
by definition.
Space-time is a brain-fart, Gedanken-shit that only
exists in the twisted mind of Einstein Dingleberries
who worship Albert's sphincter....
Welcome back to reality, Varney; and thanks
for the laughs... ahahahaha... ahahahanson


author: Lin Liangtai

text:
Man and dinosaur walked together on dead meat.

Fig. 1 below shows a human footrint and a dinosaur footprint embedded
in a piece of fossilized meat which contained many reticular tissues
and Haversian canals.

Fig. 1:  200% of the original photo, labeled with reticular tissues
and Haversian canals.
http://www.wretch.cc/album/show.php?i=lin440315&b=20&f=1555209945&p=70
Fig. 2: 700% of the original, labeled with many Haversian canals and
showing continuity from outside to inside the footprints.
http://www.wretch.cc/album/show.php?i=lin440315&b=20&f=1555209944&p=69

Article with the orginal photo:
http://www.mineralwellsindex.com/local/local_story_210093256.html


subject: Re: Man and dinosaur walked together on dead meat.

text:
On Aug 2, 3:43 pm, jerry warner <[email]> wrote:

That's why you don't understand Mars.


author: jerry warner

text:
Youve become a famous Troll on usenet. Time to cut your head off.
BYE!

Lin Liangtai wrote:


author: Tom Potter

subject: Re: Tom Potter: Talk Is Cheap, My Life Was As An Occupier of Germany: PUT UP OR SHUT UP.  BAG SOME INSTIGATORS BEFORE YOU SHOW YOUR FACE AGAIN, SWINE FLESH.

text:
"Bubba" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Face the facts!

Since Pulitzer began to use Mass Media
to trash and weaken Western Culture
and promote the Jewish agenda,
Jews have used the Mass Media to brainwash the masses

and smear and discredit any center of influence
that dares express facts and opinions that Jews
do not want the public exposed to.

Jews in the Mass Media have done hatchet jobs
on many good people including Henry Ford, McCarthy,
Jimmy Carter. Mel Gibson, Nixon. J. Edgar Hoover,
Helen Brown, General Grant, Jesus, etc.

Hitler and the Nazi Party have been systematically demonized because
they recognized that the Jews who assassinated
the Russian Family and co-opted the Russian government
were using Russia as a base from where to train terrorists
and instigate conflicts, wars and revolutions all over the world.

Hitler and the Nazi were not all bad.
They had to from a private police force to prevent
Jews and hired goons from assaulting and assassinating
their leaders and breaking up their political meetings.

Hitler was one of the most popular leaders of all times,
and While England and America were sinking
deeper and deeper into the Great Depression,
Hitler's policies accelerated Germany out of the depression,
and built expressways, public buildings, infrastructure,
public housings and even vacation housing for the working people.

Hitler also designed many public buildings,
painted many beautiful pictures,
formed the concept for the Volkswagen, etc.
He was also a vegetarian and didn't smoke,
which is some indication of his morality.

Regarding George Orwell,
when he  was "Down and out",
George Orwell was  brainwashed by the
Gang that had massacred the Russian Family,
co-opt the Russian Government and were using Russia
as a base from where to train terrorists,
and instigate revolutions and Class Wars all over the world,

but after being exposed to the Gang who
were instigating and participating in the Spanish Civil War,
Orwell wised up, did a 180,
and wrote Nineteen Eighty-Four in 1949,
and Animal Farm in 1945 which were directed at exposing
the Gang that had co-opted the Russian government.

It is interesting to see that when Orwell was visited by
David Holbrook a fan of Orwells since school days,
he found Orwell to be hostile and disagreeable
because of Holbrook's membership of the Communist Party,
which was controlled by the Jews in Russia,

Orwell also gave the British Foreign Office a list of
people he considered to be unsuitable as IRD authors
because of their pro-communist leanings.

Observe that after their Class Wars were discredited
and the Native Russians regained control of their government,
the leading members of the Gang instituted a phony
"Free Jews" scam and migrated to Israel and America
from where they began to instigate the Religious Wars.

It is also interesting to see that when they were
instigating the Class Wars, Jews in the Mass Media
made Whites and guys like Henry Ford, Thomas Edison
and Andrew Carniege to be the bad guys,

and now they have done a 180
and are making out Blacks, Latinos Muslims and poor folks
to be the bad guys.

Many free ebooks can be downloaded from the URL below,
including the books listed.

http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html

Curtis B. Dall, Franklin Delano. My Exploited Father-in-Law | 1 MB
Norman G. Finkelstein, The Holocaust Industry | 0.64 MB
Jï¿½rgen Graf, Holocaust Revisionism and its Political Consequences | 0.2 MB
George Orwell, Animal Farm | 777 KB
George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty Four | 5.8 MB

Here is another interesting fact.
After Jews obtained a dominant position in the Mass Media,
they made Einstein their Poster Boy to brainwash the masses that
Jews were intelligent in order to rationalize why the Jewish Culture was
vastly inferior to the cultures of Egypt, Persia, India, China, Greece,
Rome, etc.

and they brainwashed the masses to believe that Jews were "virtuous victims"
to rationalize wht Jews have come into conflict with all of their neighbors
throughout history.

It is interesting to see that the Mass Media hypes Einstein as
"The Man of the Centry" although his model
wastes time, money and minds,
and uses rubber clocks and rulers
to speculate about things beyond Man's capacity to
EVER experience in time and space,
like the beginning and end od the universe and the mind of God.

Contrast Einstein's model to the Watson/Crick DNA model
that is used millions of times every day
improving food crops and health,
reconstructing history, solving crimes, etc.

So Einstein is "The Man of the Centry"?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

--
Tom Potter
-----------------
http://www.prioritize.biz/
http://voices.yuku.com/forums/66
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com/siteindex.zhtml
http://184.105.237.216/~tompotte/
http://tdp1001.wiki.zoho.com


author: Bubba

text:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, "Tom Potter" <[email]> wrote:
Thanx for responding Tom.  Please scroll down the page.

Hitler was a powerful politician funded by powerful interests.
Worldly power is worldly power.  It hardly matters who wields it.

Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm were about a lot more than
Russians or "judeo-bolshevists."  It was about any government in
power that enslaved and terrorized their proletariat "subjects" as
their playthings.  All governments have always been that way.  All
governments are no better than any religion or their bastard child
money.  There are no good guys in world full of bad guys.  Humans
exist for two reasons only, greed and arrogance.  The combination
of these twain evils is called "cupidity."  Any human who doesn't
admit to this is a liar.  But of course, all humans are born liars
so it follows that they wouldn't admit to this, at least not in
the sense of contrite honesty.  The "99%" are looking for hope in
a hopeless world.  The "1%" accept that greed and arrogance is
human nature, and so they don't give a damn about hope.  They don't
need hope.  They have money.  Thus evil prevails in this world.

Well, since everyone in the world is a bad guy, that would include
people of all races, creeds, colors, ad infinitum.  It's really
just a matter of how evil a person is.  Some people are a little
bit evil, whereas others are more so.  Some people are so diabolically
evil they earn the label of "zionist" and other nefarious epithets.

Add 'Von den Juden und iren Lugen' by Martin Luther, unabridged:
http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

I don't agree with some of his points, but most of it makes sense.
It's quite a verbose read.  I'm guessing that Hitler read this book
too, since Mein Kampf is even vastly more verbose and tedious.  I'm
not entirely fluent in German, but here's the original verbatim:
http://www.radioislam.org/historia/hitler/mkampf/pdf/ger.pdf

Anyone who believes themselves to be "gawds chosen people" is a
racist psychopath.  I don't think that "juwes" are the only people
who adhere to such insanity.  "Christians" believe that they are
"saved," for example.  All religions are insidious brainwashing of
the naive, insecure, and gullible.  Marx was spot-on in this regard:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless
world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the
demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their
illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition
that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in
embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."

One thing is certain, Einstein is largely responsible for the atomic
bomb.  Talk about karma, man!  Einstein apparently regretted his evil
influence on the world just before his death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%E2%80%93Einstein_Manifesto

One of my favorite quotes ever is from Spielberg's 'Jurassic Park'
where Jeff Goldblum, playing Dr. Ian Malcolm, responds this way:

"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could,
they didn't stop to think if they should."

My opinion is that if the human race could be extincted from the
earth without causing harm to any other species of life, even to
rocks, minerals, anything, then that would be the perfect and final
solution.  The only species of life on Earth that seems to be the
prevailing problem and absolute enemy of nature are Homo sapiens.

Perhaps nature will find a way to solve the problem for us?

--
Bub

P.S.  I can x-post too.


text:
On Sat,  4 Aug 2012 22:50:42 -0400 (EDT), Bubba
<[email]> wrote:

If it does it won't matter to your stupid ass as you too will not be
there to appreciate the new found pristeeness.

One of the most iognorant statements that gets made from time to time
is how much "better off" the world would be without humans.
Better off for who?  Critters don't appreciate a damned thing as they
are purely creatures of instinct.  Animals do not care if they shit
and piss in the very same water hole they drink from.  So there is no
appreciation from animals regarding their environment.  They are part
of the environment.  So if you were to get you wish and all humanity,
including yourself, were to vanish overnight then there wouldn't be a
soul anywhere to appreciate jack shit.  And the planet could be
totally annihilated the next day and it would mean nothing.

The only importance the earth holds is in the minds of man.  Without
man it becomes just an unimportant insignificant spec in the universe
that has no real purpose other than to simply exist in whatever state
it happens to be in.

Assigning some supernatural importance to the planet trying to make it
more important than those that live on it to the point of saying it
would be a better place without them is psychological nonsense.
Funny that in the animal kingdom the fact of life is "the strongest
survive" yet human beings, according to lunatics such as yourself, are
supposed to somehow disqualify themselves from that concept because we
are capable of abstract thought and have opposible thumbs?

And the nonsense that humans are the only organisms on the planet that
are capable of detroying their own environment is uneducated junk.
Before man ever had the capability of reaking any environmental havoc
at all locusts would ravage landscapes to the point of herbivores
literally starving due to the vegetation being stripped by the swarm.
Mother nature herself through volcanoes, earthquakes and asteroid
strikes has terminated the existence of virtually all substantial life
on the planet to a degree that man could only imagine long before the
first human ever existed.

But you are welcome to put yourself out of the planets perceived
misery since you believe it would be a step in the right direction.
And the instant that you drop dead will be the same instant that you
cease to care one way or the other about mother Earth.


text:
"Bubba" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Regarding Bub's comment:
"The only species of life on Earth that seems to be the
prevailing problem and absolute enemy of nature are Homo sapiens.",

There are more Mosquitoes by weight and numbers
than Homo sapiens
and they kill far more people and animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito
"In feeding on blood, various species of mosquitoes
transmit some of the most harmful human and livestock diseases.
Some authorities argue accordingly
that mosquitoes are the most dangerous animals on earth."

"Mosquitoes are very widespread,
occurring in all regions of the world except for Antarctica
In warm and humid tropical regions,
they are active for the entire year,
but in temperate regions they hibernate over winter.

Arctic mosquitoes may be active for only a few weeks
as pools of water form on top of the permafrost.
During that time, though, they exist in huge numbers
and can take up to 300ml of blood per day
from each animal in a caribou herd."

"Viral diseases, such as yellow fever, dengue fever and Chikungunya,
transmitted mostly by Aedes aegypti.
Dengue fever is the most common cause of fever in travelers
returning from the Caribbean, Central America, and South Central Asia.
This disease is spread through the bites of infected mosquitoes..

The parasitic disease malaria, carried by mosquitoes of the genus Anopheles
Lymphatic filariasis (the main cause of elephantiasis)
which can be spread by a wide variety of mosquito species."

"Neither bats nor purple martins are known to control
or even significantly reduce mosquito populations."

http://arctic.fws.gov/caribou.htm
"In late June and early July, when hordes of mosquitos hatch,
the caribou gather in huge groups numbering in the tens of thousands."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria
"Malaria has been a widely prevalent disease throughout human history -
some scientists believe that one in every two people who have ever lived has
died of it.

The WHO has estimated that malaria annually causes 250 million cases of
fever;
the organization estimated that 655,000 people died from the disease in
2010.
However, a 2012 meta-analysis published in The Lancet
suggests that deaths are significantly higher,
with 1,238,000 people dying from malaria in 2010."

In my own personal case,
when I lived in New Orleans,
I was constantly seeking refuge from Mosquitoes
and from the noxious fumes of the Mosquito control agencies,

and when I was given a choice of duty stations in the service,
I always researched to determine the Mosquito problems,

and even recently, in the relatively dry Beijing China area,
I changed residency to seek a place with fewer Mosquitoes.

Observe that Mosquitoes kill more people than wars,
and that man and animals constantly seek refuge from Mosquitoes.

http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/about/history/
"The construction of the Panama Canal was made possible only after yellow
fever and malaria were controlled in the area. These two diseases were a
major cause of death and disease among workers in the area. In 1906, there
were over 26,000 employees working on the Canal. Of these, over 21,000 were
hospitalized for malaria at some time during their work."

"Malaria became widely recognized in Greece by the 4th century BCE, and it
was responsible for the decline of many of the city-state populations.
Hippocrates noted the principal symptoms. By the age of Pericles, there were
extensive references to malaria in the literature and depopulation of rural
areas was recorded."

It does not take a system engineer to comprehend,
that Mosquitoes control the allocation and distribution of animals and
resources on the Earth.

BTW, many people made a greater contribution to
the understanding of atomic energy than Einstein.

After the Curies discovered radioactivity
and the fact that emissions from nuclei resulted in a mass change,
scientists mapped the masses of many isotopes
and pretty much understood that the energy of nuclei
could be tapped if man wanted to make the effort.

http://www4.nau.edu/meteorite/Meteorite/Images/IsotopeChart.jpg

Einstein has been over hyped because the Mass Media
made him a Poster Boy to rationalize why
the Jewish culture was vastly inferior to the cultures
of Egypt, Persia, Phoenicia, India, China, Greece, Rome, etc.

The following URL describes Einstein's most useful patent.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=zRpsAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=albert+einstein#PPA1,M1

--
Tom Potter
http://tom-potter.tel
https://tdp1001.jux.com/


text:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2012, "Tom Potter" <[email]> wrote:
Various iterations of mosquitoes have been surviving and thriving
for hundreds of millions of years, vastly longer than before the
first hominids appeared.  And mosquitoes are still at it today.
They must be doing something right to have survived for that long,
even in the midst of Homo sapiens which are their worst enemy.  My
money is on the virus, though.  I believe that virus will survive
everything else before they, too, become extinct for the absence of
any host.

IMO, Homo sapiens are slated for global extinction in the very near
future.  I could be wrong now, but I don't think so.  It is the year
2012, after all, and the Middle East looks like it's about to light
up like a Christmas tree.  Goodbye Big Oil, Hello World War Three.

Never mind that Einstein wrote that letter to FDR in 1939.  And
Big Al's general theory of relativity?  That obviously had nothing
to do with the initial inspiration for the development of nuclear
weapons of mass destruction, either.  Oppenheimer first met Einstein
in January of 1932.  Hate to say it Tom, but your responses do seem
to ignore much of what is indisputable fact.  It's like you're
arguing just for the sake of arguing, but as long as you present
interesting arguments, even links to support your views, that's not
necessarily a bad thing.  We all need to have our memory jogged and
our views challenged.

True that.

I think you meant to write "superior" in that last sentence,
otherwise it makes no sense at all.  Don't you mean that Einstein
was propped up by the zionist-controlled media to convince the
world that "jews" are smarter than anybody else in the universe,
even though Einstein himself wasn't really on board with that nor
was he willing to acknowledge such a monumentally hubris accolade?

I personally felt good about Einstein, since he didn't seem like
such a bad or stupid person to me.  Perhaps I was an unsuspecting
victim of brainwashing in that regard?  Brainwashing is what all
governments do, because without it they would literally die.  I
have subsequently unplugged from most of their brainwashing, but
my favorable views on Einstein could be residual and I am just now
realizing that I had been duped on that point, too?  Nothing could
surprise me where governments are concerned.  And why do we have
separate words for government and the military, when in all cases
don't they refer to the same diabolical and utterly ruthless evil?

That's pretty wild, a "blouse" patent by none other than Big Al!
Learn something new every day.

Keep posting, Tom.  You're a good contributor against a sea filled
with zionist sharks.

--
Bub


text:
"Bubba" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Just as I indicated,
"the Jewish culture was vastly inferior to the cultures
of Egypt, Persia, Phoenicia, India, China, Greece, Rome, etc."

In fact the Jewish culture was even inferior to the cultures
of the Aztec and Mayans who developed
some of the most valuable crops;
corn, chocolate, potatoes, hot peppers, pumpkin, squash, tobacco, etc.
and left imposing ruins that demonstrate their greatness.

The Aztecs, Michael E. Smith [Blackwell:Oxford] 1996(p. 65-6)
"Aztec farmers inherited a knowledge of plants that had developed over
thousands of years. Many more varieties of plants were originally
domesticated in the Americas than in the Old World, and many of the
immensley varied foods and dishes in modern Mexican cuisine today originated
a long time before the Spanish arrived."

http://www.history.iastate.edu/agprimer/Page14.html

Indian farmers practiced two
distinct agricultural methods. Intercropping and multiple cropping utilized
the
small bottomland fields most effectively. The process of intercropping
focused
on the planting of various crops, such as beans, squash, and corn, in the
same field. The mixture of crops in the same field served to complement each
other. Beans replenished depleted nitrogen levels in the soil caused by the
corn. In turn, the corn stalks served as a trellis for the beans to climb
while
the squash created a ground cover to choke out unwanted weeds.

Farmers planted two crops in the same field under a multiple cropping
method.
This method primarily focused upon using two varieties of corn, early and
late.
In planting the two crops together, the farmers could harvest the early crop
for use while letting the other grow until maturity thus ensuring a longer
availability of the corn food source."

It is interesting that the Mayan used their 260 day calendar
to determine when to plant the first and second crops.

"Mayan Calendar

Many historians believe that the Mayan calendar originated with the Olmecs.
Their 260-day calendar was used for ritual, agricultural and divination
purposes. This cycle of days was established due to the location of the
settlement. There, the sun passes through zenith in 260-day intervals. Other
theories suggest that the 260-day calendar signifies the planting and
harvesting cycle of Mayan crops."

As I recall, they planted the first corn crop when the sun pasted overhead
heading south
( Of the home site of the Olmecs.)
and they planted the second corn crop when the sun pasted overhead heading
north .

It is interesting to see that the only two times in thier history
when an independent Jewish culture
was up to par with its neighbors,
was when the Phonecian king Hiram
built Solomon palaces and a temple
in exchange for mecenaries,
and when Rome controlled Israel.

Note that even the present day Israel
is/was built and sustaiined from loot, gifts
and reparations from Germany, American taxpayers,
looted Russians, and the looting of the Palestinians.

And as can be seen, Jews in Israel are anxious to
instigate and profit from the Religious Wars
as the loot from their Class Wars and the looting
of the Palestinians is almost gone.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312579,00.html

"Germany Tells Israel: No More Holocaust Reparations

Published November 22, 2007
Israeli Holocaust survivors asked Germany's finance minister Thursday
to improve a reparations arrangement set up a half-century ago,
but he said no additional money would be paid."

Let us hope that Jews are not successful
in getting Obama to wage war on Iran,
as they got FDR to wage war on Germany rather than Russia,
as they got Bush to wage the war on Iraq
that put America and England into moral and economic freefall.

As General Sherman said when Jews
were profiting from the Civil War:
"Where there are bodies, you will find vultures."

I am confident that an honest, rational, scientific analysis
of the Jewish culture will indicated that it
morphed into a cultural cancer that invades rich hosts,
gets a few key leaders like the Bushes and Clintons under control
and uses them to trash, loot, and weaken their host.

--
Tom Potter
http://tom-potter.tel
https://tdp1001.jux.com/


author: starfire

subject: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
Has anyone bought one of the PicoScope USB-based oscilloscopes?  I was
looking at the model 3206.  Is this a good unit?  Does the company provide
everything they claim they will?

Thanks for any insight....

Dave


author: Marra

subject: Re: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
On 15 Jun, 22:54, [email] (Gaetan Mailloux) wrote:

No.

You would need to buy a USB scope and PC software.

The alternative is getting into microcontrollers, USB and PC software.


author: Graham W

subject: Re: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
starfire wrote:

Are you sure that 8 bit resolution is going to OK?

Anyway, there are other models with different specs so any shortcomings
will be down to the purchaser ordering the wrong model or not
appreciating the specifications.

HTH


author: Jamie

subject: Re: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
starfire wrote:

Personally, I prefer the non USB types that requires a PC/Laptop to
operate.
   Most Hand held or desktop Digital's have the option of sending the
capture data to the PC/
   I bought not to along ago a cheap chinese knock off that works
very nice for the price..
   20 Mhz dual scope (color), with DMM, separate inputs with isolation
between all inputs.
   I paid under 500 for it. I think they have also a 60 Mhz version..
  this comes with carry case, real probes, divider block etc..
It's your choice..
    I did see a post once about a USB scope and the user wasn't happy.
I can't say if it was the same model how ever, they did complain about
jitter and lag..


author: Rich Webb

subject: Re: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 21:40:57 -0600, "starfire"
<[email]> wrote:

When you're looking at USB scopes be sure that you look also at the
single-shot sample rate and not only the "equivalent" rate that they
may give for repetitive events. The single-shot bandwidth for
reasonable reproduction of the signal is about one tenth of the
single-shot rate.


author: Gaetan Mailloux

subject: Re: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
Marra ([email]) writes:

Hi

I found a web site using a Pic but it's seem hard to program it.

Here's the link;

http://www.semifluid.com/?p=24

Gaetan


subject: Re: experience with USB osiclloscopes?

text:
"Graham W" <[email]> wrote in message
news:46615b00$0$8714$[email]...

I couldn't find anything else out there after doing an extensive web search
with higher bit resolution and still providing a wide enough bandwidth (I
need at least 200MHz) while still being within reason for cost.  8-bits
seems to be the norm for high-speed (that's reasonable).  The other
functionality of the package (bullt-in spectrum analysis and function
generator) of the 3206 makes this a pretty good value for the cost.  To be
sure, there are a lot of 10 and 12-bit resolution PC scopes but their
bandwidths are usually about 50MHz or less.

Thanks.


author: Melchizedek

text:
http://e.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=43246

Finland: Investments in solar energy heating worthwhile
R&D news

Helsinki, 1 November, 2005 - According to a study by Senewa, the use
of solar energy could save 21% of the heating costs of a one-family
house in Finland. The study that was made in the autumn of 2005
compared the heating oil consumption of a house using a combined solar
energy and oil system to the consumption of a house with an
oil-heating. In a house with combined solar energy and oil heating, the
saving was 835 litres a year, corresponding to about EUR 500. The study
clearly indicates that investments in a heating system that uses both
solar energy and oil for heating are worthwhile.


author: Petri Vatilo

subject: Re: Finland: Investments in solar energy heating worthwhile

text:
"Melchizedek" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

This study should have been made during the winter when days are much
shorter, which you can see if you check the sunshine amounts.You can see
that in october the amount of sunny hour in Helsinki (in the very south of
Finland) drops to almos one third and to on sixth in november. Also there is
a huge difference in the temperature during autum and in winter. To get
really valuable data the test should be run for a full year.

This just proves that by designing your test you get the results what you
want....

http://www.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/weather/climate_8.html


author: [redacted]

text:
This just proves that by designing your test you get the results what
you
want....(snip)

That's what I was thinking. If ever there was a case for nuclear power,
that Finnish icebox is it...-Jitney


author: Dodo

text:
[email] wrote:

Heat exchange pumps are good for Finland.
I made a solar grill which works just fine but only 6 months a year in
Finland if the cloud cover is less then 30%
http://koti.mbnet.fi/xenos/index.htm


author: Jeff Miller

subject: determining Mooney-Rivlin coefficients

text:
I am trying to use ANSYS to model rubber using hyperelastic elements.
I need to find the Mooney-Rivlin coefficients for the material I am
using and my library is having trouble locating the references listed
in the manual which explain how to obtain values for the coefficients.

Can anyone tell me how to obtain the coefficients?  I would
appreciete hearing from anyone who has experience with Mooney-Rivlin.

Thank you very much.


author: Sidharth

subject: Re: determining Mooney-Rivlin coefficients

text:
For determining the coefficients of the Mooney-R materials one needs to have the
graph for the uniaxial stress-stretch experimental results. I havnt used ANSYS
anytime to determine the coefficients anytime, but from what i know if you give
the uniaxial stress-stretch curve the ANSYS program itself calculates the
coefficients. ( Some people however do not believe the coefficients calculated from
ANSYS and say that they are erroneous, so you might have to use judgement here ).
	In case you have the uniaxial stress-stretch curve for the rubber you
are using and dont know how to get the coeff. i can tell how to do it.
	The nos posted by some other gentleman may not be valid for your case and
they seem to be slightly off. According to the literature for most rubber the ratio
of c1/c2 should lie between 3 and 8.
hope this helps
sidharth


text:
In article <[email]>,
Jeff Miller <[email]> wrote:

The two-constant Mooney-Rivlin model is

	W = C1(I1-3)) + C2(I2-3)                                  (1)
where
	W is strain energy density of the material.
	I1 = (L1^2 + L2^2 + L3^2)  is the first strain invariant. (2)
	I2 = (L1^2 L2^2 + L2^2 L3^2 + L3^2 L1^2) is the second    (3)
						strain invariant.
	C1, C2 are empirical constants (inputs to ANSYS).
	L is the extension ratio, defined by
	L = (original length + delta_length)/(original length)

You can determine C1 and C2 from a simple tension test of the
material (assuming that the material behaves in compression as
it does in tension).  But first you have to write eq(1) in a more
usable form.  You do that by substituting for I1 and I2 in eq(1)
from eq(2) and eq(3).  Recall that for the case of simple tension
L1 is simply L, and L2 = L3.  You must also use the assumption of
incompressibility and the third strain invariant:

	I3 = L1^2 L2^2 L3^2 = 1                             (4)

Once you've made the substitutions, you simply differentiate
with respect to L.  Then, after two pages of algebra you'll
get to the following eq:

	     F
   ------------------- = C1 L  +  C2                        (5)
          /     1   \
    2 Ao | 1 - ----  |
          \     L^2 /

where Ao is the original stress area of the sample and
      F is the applied force corresponding to L and Ao.

Note that the left hand side of eq(5) contains terms that can be
determined entirely from the tension data.  For any one point
on your tension test data, you'll have a value of F, a value of
Ao, and a value of L.  The right hand side of eq(5) contains
the equation of a line in slope-intercept form.  Use your tension
data to plot the left hand side of eq(5).  Then, if the results
of your tension test indicate a linear region, you can use the
data from that linear region to curve-fit the right hand side
and determine C1 and C2.  If the result of your tension test
reveal no such linear region, then you'll have to resort to a
more complicated material model.  In other words, the two-constant
Mooney-Rivlin model is inadequate for your particular material.

When you do the tension test, be sure to cover a wide strain range,
say, 200% to 300%.  Be sure, too, to collect enough data points
at the extremes of the strain range to capture any curvature that
might exist there.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 *       - Tony Rizzo -       |                                          *
 *   AT&T Bell Laboratories   |       Death plucks my ear and says       *
 *    TEL (201) 386-2565      |       "Live.  I am coming."              *
 *    FAX (201) 386-2965      |                               Homer      *
 *    [email]     |                                          *
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


author: Denassar

text:
In article <2sd7ci$[email]>, [email] (Sidharth)
writes:

Included with the software is a file named "HYPER.MAC". This is a
macro you run from within the PREP7 preprocessor that will generate
the needed Mooney-Rivlin coeffients. An explanation of how to use the
macro and the data file you need to generate from stess-strain data
is provided in a mannual available from your ANSYS dealer. I believe
the mannual is named "Material Nonlinearities". It is almost a
neccessity to have this mannual when doing a hyperelastic analysis.
There is a section on Mooney-Rivlin in the THEORY mannual that
descrbes the mathematics behind the coefficients. I believe that each
mannual is about $50. It would be worth you time.


text:
In article <2sdaqg$[email]>,
Denassar <[email]> wrote:

I'd be very cautious about using a canned routine such as this.
I sincerely doubt that the macro can distinguish  between data
that should be included in the regression and data that should
be left out of the regression.

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 *       - Tony Rizzo -       |                                          *
 *   AT&T Bell Laboratories   |       Death plucks my ear and says       *
 *    TEL (201) 386-2565      |       "Live.  I am coming."              *
 *    FAX (201) 386-2965      |                               Homer      *
 *    [email]     |                                          *
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


author: Dnassar

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
(-A.RIZZO) writes:

You are correct. The macro can not distinguish if the data is good or
not. Included with the software is a program to display the points
used along with the curve generated. It is up to you to decide if the
fit is valid. Thanks for pointing this out. I should have issued that
warning.

In response to one of the other responses. Be sure that the points
used to generate the curve are for the region in question, i.e.
tension data is not good for an analysis in compression. It is also a
good idea to check the results to be sure the strains did not exceed
the data points. Extrapolation is not allowed.

Thanks
Donald E. Nassar Jr.
[email]      <------ Please note new address, previous
address was
                                           [email]. The new
address is on
                                           another computer at a
different location. Please
  address all mail to the new address.
phone 318-237-1182
fax 318-237-7817


author: Gary - Knight

subject: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
I need the help of a physicist on a question relating to
vibration. Please respond directly to me. The issue is whether
different types of vibrations will have different effects on
hman physiology, or whether a 30 Hz vibration is the same no
matter what the source. Here are three hypothetical situations:
(1) I weld a small lump of metal onto the shaft of a motor so
that the lump barely strikes the housing. When I run the motor at
30 revolutions per second, the housing vibrates at a rate of 30 Hz.
When I put my hand on the housing, my body vibrates at 30 Hz
as well.
(2) I connect an audio osciallator tuned to 30 Hz to an amplifier
and thence to a speaker. Standing across the room, I "hear" the
30 Hz tone (vibration) as the sound waves strike my ear.
(3) I tune a radio transmitter to 30 Hz and connect a long-wire
antenna across the room. I turn the transmitter on and stand
in the room. I am therefore in a field of electromagnetic
radiation vibrating at 30 Hz.
HYPOTHESIS -- the physiological effect on me is identical in
all three cases. A 30 Hz vibration is a 30 Hz vibration
regardless of its source. True? False? Why? Thanks for helping me
understand the difference (if any) in a 30 Hz tactile vibration,
a 30 Hz sound wave, and a 30 Hz radio signal. -- Gary Knight


author: Leigh Palmer

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
In article <[email]> Gary - Knight,
[email] writes:

My response would be quite different in each of the three cases you have
described. The first would not couple strongly acoustically, and the
vibration would be transmitted to my body directly; it would not be as
strong an aural stimulus as a tactile or kinesthetic one. The second
would, of course, evoke an aural percept. The third would evoke no
response whatsoever.

The first stimulus is lust what one would experience with an 1800 RPM ac
induction motor, and I've felt it. The third stimulus I've never
experienced, but I am sitting in a 60 Hz field right now, and that
realization is purely intellectual, not perceptual.

What is the basis for your hypothesis about the physiological effect on
you, which is so different from the physiological effects on me?

Leigh


author: Richard D Pierce

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Gary - Knight) writes:

False.

In scenario (1), you are mechanically coupling to a specific point on your
body. There will be attentuative effects such that the amplitude of the
vibration at different parts of your body will be dependent upon the
dispance from the contact point, the intervening body parts, muscle
tension and so on.

In scenario (2), the stimulus will be fairly constant across the entire
body, presuming your standing an appreciable distance way from the
emitter. Further, the amplitude at any given point will be far less than
that of (1), whose amplitude at point of contact may be very high. Also
not that scenario 1 will also produce acoustical effects, thus muddying
the differences between (1) and (2). Also note that there may also be a
significant difference between the sensations casued by (2) depending upon
whether your mouth is open or not, because of possible differences in
pressure between the outer and inner eardrum surfaces.

Both (1) and (2) are essentially mechanical effects. However (3) is
electromagnetic in nature, and thus requires a significant leap of faith
to conclude that its effects are indistiquishable from (1) and (2).
There's a fair amount of research along these lines, but at 50 and 60 Hz
as part of studies done on the effect of electromagnetic radiation effects
on organisms. From this standpoint, it is relatively well established the
acoustical/mechanical effects are radically different from electromagnetic
effects.

Above all that, you've left out any notion of the magnitude of the
stimulus in all three cases. One possible answer is that, yes, it's all
the same because the amplitude you picked is so low as to be completely
insignificant.


author: C.M. Hicks

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
Leigh Palmer <[email]> writes:

<< STUFF DELETED >>

I've never experienced lust for an 1800 RPM motor :-)

Sorry, couldn't resist... Otherwise I agree with everything you wrote.

Christopher


author: Julian V. Noble

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
I agree with everything you say except the following: There is literally
***no*** evidence for an effect of VLF electromagnetic fields (can't call
it radiation because the wavelength at 60 Hz is 5 x 10^6 meters, almost
as large as the Earth's radius. So you are always in the "near" zone) on
any living organisms at intensities far larger than normally encountered
about the house or near HV power lines.

Basically, a chap named Paul Brodeur, who seems to make his living by
digging out non-existent dangers and writing books about them that
explain the reason why no one ever heard that the sky was falling before
he brought it to our attention: there is a GIANT CONSPIRACY (between
science, industry, government, commies, fluoridizers--you name it)
to COVER UP this dreadful hazard so they can GET RICH. Well, I have
been trying to tell people for years that this VLF stuff ("Currents of
Death") is as harmless as your microwave oven (oh yes, Brodeur is the
author of "The Zapping of America", all about the GIANT CONSPIRACY to
conceal the fact that a microwave oven turns meat a deadly gray color)
amd have not yet managed to cash in. I think Brodeur is doing better
financially than I. Perhaps it's because people like a little excitement
in their humdrum lives.

So to return to the question of VLF EM fields, we are not only not
built to perceive them, we have no means for them to interact with
our bodies in any noticeable manner, including getting sick from them.
Unless you include getting sick of all the postings from people who
are either worried about them or who have an AMAZING NEW THEORY of
how they work.

--jvn


author: Bill Shymanski

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
[email] (Julian V. Noble) writes:

I've been toying with a neat get-rich-quick scheme recently - firstly,
buy one of the many inexpensive EM field survey instruments. Print up
some cards and get an ad in the paper, advertising "EM Field Surveys
$75 (plus taxes...slightly higher outside the Metro area) ".  I figure
this could be quite profitable, although admittedly cashing in on
irrational fears and ill-founded media campaigns.  But its legal
to sell horoscopes and copper bracelets in this part of the world,
too.
   Bill

[email]
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba  204 488-1607


author: Michael Covington

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Julian V. Noble) writes:

Well said.  An argument I often give -- which impressed the
scientifically literate but not the conspiracy theorists -- is that if
the entire wave goes right through your body and emerges unchanged,
then, obviously, no energy was absorbed from it, and if no energy is
absorbed from it, it can't have any effect, because no energy was
transferred to anything else.


author: Joel Kolstad

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Julian V. Noble) writes:

Well, I suppose that that depends on how you define "effect" and "far
larger".  Clearly you can demonstarte that a 60 Hz EM field, with a large
enough amplitude, can cause some cellular effects (e.g., the cells wiggle
around differently...).  Most research on VLF EM fields is concerned with
the _long term_ exposure to such fields.  I doubt that anyone would suggest
that brief exposure to them will cause any harm.  Of course, the term
"brief" is also debateable.  Personally, I'm of the opinion that if there
does turn out to be a health risk from our 60 Hz power lines, it's going to
be of such a ridiculously small magnitude that I'm not even going to worry about
it (i.e., I think my risk of dying by deciding to drive a car to and from
work everyday would be much greater than any risk from 60 Hz fields!).

Actually, a microwave oven is quite efficient at cooking people... it's
hardly harmless.  (After all, it's not like that beef you nuked last night
for your triple cheeseburger is much different that your body meat :-)
).  This is why microwaves ovens are heavily shieled so that the microwaves
don't "escape".

But perhaps I'm misinterpreting your statement, and you're really saying
the VLF "stuff" is as harmless as a _properly_ functioning microwave oven.
To a large degree, I suppose that this is true.

I think you're right.  Look at how well all the tabloid magazines do.

The question of the "interaction" of VLF EM fields really is not a 100%
decided issue, and it is being researched by legitimate scientists.

					---Joel Kolstad


author: John Snyder

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Bill Shymanski) writes:

Reminds me of my scheme to become Momentum Coach for a National Football
League Team.  Anyone who watches the telecasts knows how important
"momentum" is in the games (the announcers are constantly talking
about it).  I could analyze lots of videotape and digitized images,
and might even be able to collect a few weeks or months of fat
paychecks before they realized that I was analyzing a different type of
momentum than they had in mind.

John
[email]


author: Jon Kimbrough

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
In article [email], [email] (Joel Kolstad) writes:
<stuff deleted>

He said microwave oven, not microwaves.  Of course he meant a properly
functioning microwave oven!

<stuff deleted>

---

Jon Kimbrough - [email]
Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Company


author: Bill Mayhew

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
As far as I understand it, one of the concerns about microwave
ovens isn't so much that some lame-brain will operate the thing
with the safety interlock disabled and door wide open.  Supposedly,
microwaves produce some nasty chemical reactions that yield
horrible cancerous byproducts.  Of course, cooking in a skillet on
top of the stove is just about as likely and does to a measurable
extent do the same thing.  Of course, one has the potential to sell
many more books whipping up fear over technology that the general
public regards in the same realm as magic.  Of course, it helps
that electro-magnetic energy is a form of radiation -- helpful in
generating confusion with nuclear particle radiation, the harmful
effects of which the public is aware.  After all, the slang term
for microwave cooking is, "nuking."

Incidentally, a cook was injured by operating a microwave oven with
the interlock disabled.  He felt it saved time becuase he could
toss food in and take it out without having to restart the oven.
He basically wound up cooking his gut.  Duh....


author: David Iverson

subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
Well, that argument doesn't really cut it for me.  I'm not worried about my
microwave and don't plan to be in the near future.  But it puts out a heafty
dose of EM radiation in the frequencies between channel 22 and channel 32
(UHF) on my television.  (sorry, don't know what frequencies those are in
Hz.)  It's powerful enough to effectively jam the NBC station for about 100'
around the thing.

I'm sure that it probably puts out a hell of a lot of 60Hz. noise as well.
As to other frequencies I couldn't say.

-David Iverson


subject: Re: Question on 30 Hz vibration

text:
[email]  writes:

Get a new microwave. It shouldn't leak like that. In fact, it may well
be dangerous (I was indeed referring to a "properly functioning" MW oven
--none of mine jam the TV--and not to a leaky one. Everyone knows RF can
burn you, I used to get burns from the antenna post of my ufh ham rig.
And if you've got a pacemaker, it could be unfortunate--are you still
there?  :-)  ).

However, I do not retract what I mentioned before: no one has been able
to find any response worth noting in kilogauss AC VLF fields; all the
so-called positive effects (different ion transport rates, etc. etc.)
on living tissue are well within the noise. Some of these "reputable"
scientists have gone so far as to say (publicly, that's how I know)
that the absence of an effect in strong fields does not imply the absence
of one in weak fields. A statement like that destroys any "reputable"
remaining to such persons.

I liked the example of the 30 Hz jackhammer applied to the skull. Humans
are built to perceive ***that*** --for a short while.

--jvn


author: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

subject: Re: Westboro Baptist Church members to protest at the funerals of some of the Virginia Tech victims

text:
convicted neighbor Archie Leach wrote:

"GOD will choose whom HE chooses to love and whom HE chooses to hate."
-- Holy Spirit

Amen.

Suggested reading:

http://abchung.livejournal.com/986.html?thread=28378#t28378

Clearly you remain convicted by the Holy Spirit:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><


author: Phineas T Puddleduck

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email]> wrote:

So where does Phelps get the authority to make god's decision for him?


author: Archie Leach

text:
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email]> wrote:

"Andy kind of side-stepped that question.  No surprise, really."--Holy
Spirit


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Anyone remember Eskatrol?

text:
On Sunday, February 7, 1999 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Delbert Mills wrote:

   Actually, I am well-acquainted with Eskatrol, previously marketed by Smith, Kline, and French (SKF). This "spansule" was a mixture of the active ingredients Dextroamphetamine Sulfate and Pentobarbitol Sodium (brand name "Nembutal"; slang street name such as "yellow jackets" for just the Pentobarbital Sodium, in a yellow capsule, WITHOUT the amphetamine. The Eskatrol were quite nice, to say the least-it produced a balanced euphoria, potent barbiturate and potent amphetamine---and pharmaceutical grade!!!!!!


subject: Re: Anyone remember Eskatrol?

text: I totally agree. A VERY nice drug. (And better than cocaine, INHO). But one could build up a tolerance to it so that it wouldn't work unless the dose was increased. And stopping cold turkey made me sleep a cry for a couple of days. Still, though, I wish it were around for an occasional dose.


subject: Re: Anyone remember Eskatrol?

text:
On Sunday, December 9, 2012 9:27:35 PM UTC-5, [email] wrote:

what is the today equivalent?  I am over weight by 30 pounds and drag may ass around


author: Costas Vlachos

subject: What's a good, clean, cheap MCU for a hobbyist?

text:
A friend of mine is looking to get into MCU projects as a hobby. I'd say
he's at an intermediate level in electronics (and has a Ph.D. in control
systems!). He has used MCUs in the past, I think it was the Motorola
68HCsomething. That was about 10 years ago, he hasn't touched electronics
since then. What he's after is something with a *clean* architecture and
affordable development tools (something under 100 Euros for a starter kit).

I have very good knowledge of the PIC16 series, and although I think they're
good MCUs, I'm worried that their messy architecture (memory paging, messy
look-up tables, etc., etc.) may scare him off. Any recommendations? An 8051?
An AVR? He told me of a cheap development kit he found, for something called
DSP56F800. Is this a DSP/MCU hybrid?

Any suggestions are appreciated (and apologies for starting yet another
"what MCU" thread!).

Thanks,
Costas


author: Rich Webb

subject: Re: What's a good, clean, cheap MCU for a hobbyist?

text:
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:30:52 +0000 (UTC), "Costas Vlachos"
<[email]> wrote:

In the 8-bitters, I really like the AVR architecture.

ImageCraft has some nice starter kits in the 100-ish Euro range. Go to
http://www.imagecraft.com/software/ and follow the Hardware link to AVR.
AFAIK, the "Butterfly" hasn't shipped yet.

Also in that same price range is Atmel's STK500 -- which has the
advantage of being useable as a programmer for any of the AVR family.
The disadvantage is a lack of a handy LCD display built in. On the other
hand, it does have a "user side" serial port and RS232 drivers for it.


author: onestone

text:
The 56F800 is a DSP with some microcontroller attributes. A bit power
hungry, and not the best endowed peripherally, but quite a nice looking
part, and the EVK was only around US$30 when I bought mine. Other than
that I like the MSP430Fxxxx from Ti. Low power, good peripheral mix,
flash based, built in JTAG for debugging, and US$99 for the tools.

Al

Costas Vlachos wrote:


author: happyhobit

text:
If you want go on the cheep and can do a bit of soldering, I'm retired too,
checkout the AVR.

http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php

I've priced it out and he could get started for less than $15.00 USD, less
if he has an electronics junk box.

Jay

"Costas Vlachos" <[email]> wrote in message
news:bjo8mr$dq6$[email]...
kit).
they're
8051?
called


text:
Oh I forgot to mention, the Olimex JTAG interface is only US$10,
download the assembler, 4K limited free C compiler, IDE and debugger
from Ti for free.

Al

onestone wrote:


author: Ed Conrad

subject: EVOLUTION BOOK BURNING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS -- Unmitigated Crap Turns to Ashes -- Evolution Goes Belly Up

text:
<
Thanks to all who made the first annual Evolution
Book Burning on Tuesday night a phenomenal success,
particularly the nation's college students.
<
Bonfires were blazing on campuses of more than
3,100 U.S. colleges and universities in a tremendous
outpouring of truth, and the good news is that nary
a student got burned (only two cases of smoke
inhalation).
<
Students at the University of Pennsylvania, Penn State
University and the University of California-Berkeley
should be singled out for their overwhelming response
in the overall effort that turned 2,755 tons of books
to ashes. (See photo.).
<
<
Might I add that the response did my heart good because
more and more folks realize that evolution hasn't an iota
of truth to back it up and most students now agree that Man
-- and large land animals -- are as Old as Coal..
<
< http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/FOSSILS/TestResults.jpg
< http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/FOSSILS/OldestTool.jpg
<
Ed Conrad
<  htt://www.edconrad.com
<
==========================================
<
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Anthropological Association
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Archaeological Institute of America
Association for Feminist Anthropology
Association of Black Anthropologists
Association of Latina and Latino Anthropologists
Human Biology Association
Paleoanthropology Society
Smithsonian Institution
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Council for Northeast Historical Archaeology
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European Association of Social Anthropologists
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Council for British Archaeology
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Link to the Directory of Archaeological Societies and Journals (1999)
Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia
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Alaska State Museums, Juneau, Alaska
Albany Museum, Rhodes University, Grahamston, South Africa
The Raymond M. Alf Museum of Paleontology, Claremont, Calif
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The California Academy of Sciences
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Centennial Museum, University of Texas at El Paso
The Notebaert Nature Museum, Chicago, Illinois
Chula Vista Nature Center, Chula Vista, California
Cincinnati Museum Center, Cincinnati, Ohio
City of Santa Cruz Museum of Natural History
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College of Eastern Utah Prehistoric Museum
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Cumberland Lodge, Museum, and Center for Leadership Studies,
  Williamsburg, Kentucky
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Essig Museum of Entomology, University of California, Berkeley
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Fick Fossil and History Museum, Oakley, Kansas
The Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago
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The High Desert Museum, Bend, Oregon
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Hooper Virtual Paleontological Museum, Canada
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Illinois State Museum
Institute of Systematics, Evolution of Animals, Polish Academy of
Sciences
Kansas University Natural History Museum, Lawrence, Kansas
Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History
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Massachusetts Museum of Natural History, University of Massachusetts
Milwaukee Public Museum, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Missouri Botanical Garden
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Montshire Museum of Science, Norwich, Vermont
Musï¿½e de Minï¿½ralogie, ï¿½cole des Mines, Paris
Musï¿½e d'Histoire Naturelle, Fribourg, Switzerland
Musï¿½e National d'Histoire Naturelle, Paris, France
Musï¿½e National d'Histoire Naturelle,Luxembourg
Musï¿½um d'Histoire Naturelle de Genï¿½ve (Natural History), Geneva
Museo di Storia Naturale di Firenze, Firenze (Florence), Italy
Museo di Storia Naturale dell'Universitï¿½ di Pisa, Italy
Museo Mundo de Ambar, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
Museo Nacional de Ciencias Naturales de Madrid
Museo Tridentino di Scienze Naturali, Trento, Italy
Museon, Den Haag (The Hague), Netherlands
Museum of Natural History - Cormack Planetarium, Providence, RI
Museums of Natural History, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
Museum of Natural Sciences, Brussels, Belgium
Museum of Southwestern Biology, University of New Mexico
Museum of Vertebrate Zoology, University of California, Berkeley
Museum of Victoria, Melbourne, Australia
National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution
    Washington, DC
National Museum of Natural History: Naturalis, Leiden, Netherlands
The Natural History Museum, Berne, Switzerland
The Natural History Museum, London
Natuurhistorisch Museum Maastricht, The Netherlands
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Neanderthal Museum, Mettmann, Germany
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The Oakland Museum of California, Oakland, California
The Oklahoma Biological Survey
Oklahoma Museum of Natural History
  Pacific Grove Museum of Natural History, Monterey County, Cal.
Paleontological Museum, University of Oslo, Norway
The Peabody Museum of Natural History, Yale University
Pratt Museum of Natural History, Amherst College
Provincial Museum of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
The Rankin Museum of American and Natural History
The Raptor Center, University of Minnesota
Redpath Museum, McGill University, Montrï¿½al, Quï¿½., Canada
The Royal British Columbia Museum
The Royal Ontario Museum (ROM), Toronto
The Royal Tyrrell Museum of Paleontology, Alberta, Canada
San Diego Natural History Museum, San Diego, California
Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History
Satrosphere , Aberdeen, Scotland
Senckenberg Natural History Museum, Frankfurt, Germany
Sierra College Natural History Museum
The Smithsonian Institution, National Museum of Natural History
St. Louis Science Center
Staatliches Museum fï¿½r Naturkunde, Stuttgart, Germany
State Darwin Museum, Moscow, Russia
Birch Aquarium-Museum, Scripps Institute of Oceanography
Sternberg Museum of Natural History
Stoke-on-Trent City Museum
Mayborn Museum Complex, Baylor University
The Swedish Museum of Natural History
Tallahassee Museum of History and Natural Science
Tate Geological Museum, Casper, Wyoming
The Tennessee Aquarium, Chattanooga, Tennessee
The Texas Memorial Museum, University of Texas at Austin
Teylers Museum, Haarlem, The Netherlands
University of Alaska Museum, Fairbanks, Alaska
University of Alberta Museum of Zoology
University of California Museum of Paleontology
University of Colorado Museum of Natural History
University of Michigan Museum of Paleontology
University of Michigan Museum of Zoology
University of Michigan Exhibit Museum of Natural History
University of Nebraska State Museum, Lincoln, Nebraska
University of Oregon Museum of Natural History
University of Washington Fish Collection
University of Wisconsin-Madison Geology Museum
University of Wyoming Geological Museum
The Vanderbilt Museum, Centerport, Long Island, New York
The Virginia Living Museum, Newport News, Virginia
Virginia Marine Science Museum, Hampton Roads, Virginia
Virginia Museum of Natural History
Virginia Museum of Natural History, Virginia Tech branch
Voralberger Naturschau Dornbirn, Dornbirn, Austria
Worldwide Museum of Natural History
Wyoming Dinosaur Center, Thermopolis, Wyoming
Zoological Museum of University of Amsterdam, Netherlands
Zoological Museum of the University of Copenhagen, Denmark
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Angola
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
B
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bhutan
Bolivia
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Burkina Faso
Burma (Myanmar)
Burundi
C
Cambodia
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Canada
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Central African Republic
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China
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Comoros
Congo
Congo,
Democratic Republic of the Costa Rica
Cï¿½te d'Ivoire
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
D
Denmark
Djibouti Dominica
Dominican Republic
E
East Timor
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
England (U.K.)
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
F Fiji
Finland
France
G
Gabon
Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Great Britain (U.K.)
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
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H Haiti
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I
Iceland
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Jamaica
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Nigeria
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Norway
O
Oman
P
Pakistan
Palau
Palestinian State*
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
The Philippines
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Portugal
Q
Qatar
R
Romania
Russi
Rwanda
S
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and The Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
Sï¿½o Tomï¿½ and Prï¿½ncipe
Saudi Arabia
Scotland (U.K.)
Senegal
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Seychelles
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T
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U
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V
Vanuatu
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Venezuela
Vietnam
W
Wales (U.K.
Western Sahara*
Y
Yemen
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Z
 Zaire
Zambia
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author: Question Quigley

subject: Re: EVOLUTION BOOK BURNING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS -- Unmitigated Crap Turns to Ashes -- Evolution Goes Belly Up

text:
Those kids are screwed up.

With most exams over by now they should be doing panty raids.

:-)

"Ed Conrad" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: don findlay

text:
Go it Ed!!  You tell them.  You're really roping them in.  (And they
think they're the logical porridge, setting out to sail the high seas
and sink  creationism?)

What a bunch, eh?


text:
Im amazed.  Didn't realize this level of ignorance was as widespread as
it is.


author: "Darkwing"

subject: Re: EVOLUTION BOOK BURNING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS -- !!!!!!THE NAZI'S BURNED BOOK!!!!!!

text:
"Ed Conrad" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

The Nazi's burned books Ed. It is sad to see religious fanatics so scared of
Evolution that they would turn to burning books. Goosestepping sheeps.

--------------------------------------------------------
DW


author: nospam

text:
In <[email]> [email] writes:

Bzzzt! You just failed the conrad gullibility test.
The real story of the photo is here:

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bookburning/21stcentury/21stcentury.htm


author: SBC Yahoo

text:
"Im amazed.  Didn't realize this level of ignorance was as widespread as

Our tax dollars at work providing the experience of a "public education"
complete with "intelligent design", or how god (the idiot of the week
claiming to speak for him) would want you to think.

During the nazi reign the greeting was 'sig heil', I believe, during the
Born Again Reign it will be 'Hallelujah. They wont burn people, they will
crucify people, bringing back the old wooden cross, and offending tree
huggers everywhere, by using crosses made from trees, to nail humans on
them.

Or perhaps "Praise the Lord and Pass the Budweiser", would be more popular.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


text:
Welcome to Pennsylvania.

"nospam" <[email]> wrote in message
news:44647552$[email]...
[email] writes:
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bookburning/21stcentury/21stcentury.htm


author: Barbara Hughes

subject:
Re: EVOLUTION BOOK BURNING EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS -- !!!!!!THE
	NAZI'S...

text:
Ol' Ed has discovered sci.skeptic and probably plans to strut his stuff
there.  Can you imagine being PROUD of book burners?  Pathetic!

Barbara


author: John Beadles

subject: Prestige factors in the civil space program (NASC paper)

text:
An another one for CT:

From:
John M. Logsdon, editor with Linda J. Lear, [et al.] "Exploring the
unknown: selected documents in the history of the u.s. civil space
program, volume one: organizing for exploration" (the NASA history
series)

Exerpt from Document II-21, "U.S. Policy on Outer Space", National
Aeronautics and Space Council, January 26, 1960, under the caption
"Significance of Outer Space to U.S. Security"

"4. From the political and psychological standpoint the most significant
factor of Soviet space accomplishments is that they have produced new
credibility for Soviet statements and claims.  Where once the Soviet
Union was not generally believed, even it's boldest propaganda claims
are now apt to be accepted at face value, not only abroad but in the
United States.  The Soviets have used this credibility for the following
purposes:
	a.  To claim general superiority for the Soviet system on the grounds
that the Sputnik and Luniks demonstrate the ability of the system to
produce great results in a short period of time.
	b.  To claim that the world balance has shifted in favor of communism
	c.  To claim that communism is the wave of the future
	d.  To create a new image of the Soviet Union as a technologically
powerful, scientifically sophisticated nation that is equal to the U.S.
in most respects, superior in others, and with a far more brilliant
future.
	e.  To create a new military image of the vast manpower of the
Communist nations now backed by weaponry that is as scientifically
advanced as that of the west, superior in the missile field, and
superior in quantity in all fields.
5.  Soviet efforts have already achieved a considerable degree of
success, and may be expected to show further gains with each notable
space accomplishment, and particularly each major "first".
6.  Significant advances have been made in restoring U.S. prestige
overseas, and in increasing the awareness of the scope and magnitude of
the U.S. outer space effort.  Although most opinion still considers the
U.S. as probably leading in general scientific and technical
accomplishments, the USSR is viewd in most quarters as leading in space
science and technology.  There is evidence that a considerable portion
of the world leadership and teh world public expects the United States
to "catch up" with the Soviet Union, and further expects this to be
demonstrated by U.S. ability to equal Soviet space payloads adn to match
or surpass Soviet accomplishments.  Failure to satisfy such expectations
may give rise to the belief that the United States is "second best",
thus transferring to the Soviets additional increments of prestige and
credibility now enjoyed by the United States.
7.  To the layman, manned space flight and exploration will reperesent
the true conquest of outer space and hence the ultimate goal of space
activities.  No unmanned experiment can substitute for manned space
exploration in its psychological effect on the peoples of the world.
There is no reason to believe that the Soviets, after getting an earlier
start, are placing as much emphasis on their manned space flight program
as is the U.S.
8.  The scientific value of space exploration and the prestige accruing
therefrom have been demonstrated.  The scientific uses of space are a
potent factor in the derivation of fundamental information of use in
most fields of knowledge.  Further, the greater the breadth and
precision of the knowledge of the space environment, the greater ability
to exploit its potentials."


subject: Re: Prestige factors in the civil space program (NASC paper)

text:
(snip)

Right here, the intimidation factor is identified.

It would help if we could separate scientific value and prestige from
any weapons implications so we could see which was the greater effect.
 One place to look would be the "space race" that occurred with manned
balloons between the US and USSR.  There was great scientific
accomplishment with the balloons that explored the upper reaches of
the atmosphere.  Why did this get little attention (relative to the
rockets)?

Maybe because balloons didn't make very good weapons.

Or perhaps because they were technologically unsophisticated by
comparison.  But then there are other examples of technological
sophistication that didn't get the attention of the rockets.

~ CT


text:
Stuf4 wrote:

Yes, the communists were attempting to be intimidating.  Congratulations
on once again identifying something we already knew.  Of course, they
failed to intimidate our leadership because we knew what missiles they
actually had, but they did substantially raise their prestige with the
rest of the world.

Well, if you go look at the original documents, which I have and have
relayed some here, this theme of (military, prestige, scientific,
economic) is repeated throughout.  In another post, I quoted McNamara:

"3.  It is for reasons such as these that major accomplishments in space
contribute to national prestige.  This is true even though the
scientific, commercial or military value of the undertaking may, by
ordinary standards, be marginal or economically unjustified."

Notice that the Secretary of Defense explicitly gives prestige top
billing, the reasons for which are listed in this post that you are
quoting.  Given original source documentation like this (repeated over
and over again), you'll have to forgive us if we and virtually all of
the many historical writers have come to the conclusion that prestige
was the prime driver of the civil space program.

More likely because balloons have been around for several hundred years
and aren't very impressive.  People (Men?) are fascinated by large, loud
things that demonstrate a lot of power.  Witness the fascination with
monster trucks, railroad engines, large amateur rockets.  Witness also
the political environment of the 50's.


author: Brian Sandle

subject: Who gets dizziness from aspirin? (Was: Re: aspirin for heart and ibuprofen use)

text:
Liz G. <[email]> wrote:

   Linkname: HealthAnswers Australia: drug finder
        URL: http://healthanswers.telstra.com/drugdata/appco/00200014.asp
       size: 446 lines

   Aspirin generally does not cause any problems with your ability to
   drive a car or operate machinery, however there is a very slight
   chance that aspirin may cause dizziness, drowsiness or tiredness in
   some people.

And may 100 mg enteric coated aspirin increase tinnitus?

please remove `shell' from between @ and caverock to reply.

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subject: Aspirin, vitamin K, calcification? (Was: Re: Who gets dizziness from aspirin?)

text:
In sci.med.cardiology Brian Sandle <[email]> wrote:

There seems to be a complicated relationship between dietary calcium
and aortic calcification. Women with osteoporosis may have greater aortic
calcification.

Vitamin K seem to alleviate aortic calcification. Warfarin increases it.
What about aspirin?

please remove `shell' from between @ and caverock to reply.

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author: ada

subject: Re: Aspirin, vitamin K, calcification? (Was: Re: Who gets dizziness from aspirin?)

text:
Brian,

Trying to explain it through nutrition only is always problematic.
The following new study sheds new light on the role of physical
activity as helping Ca to leave the cell and thus preventing
calcification.
Read a friendly summary of it at:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020422/020422-10.html

ada