subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:

:On Aug 22, 9:20 am, Fred J. McCall <[email]> wrote:
:> Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:
:>
:> ::Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>
:> :> Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:
:> :>
:> :> :On Aug 16, 10:33 pm, Fred J. McCall <[email]> wrote:
:> :> :> Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:
:> :> :>
:> :> :[...]
:> :
:> :> :> :They also tended to use an inferior Intel CPU
:> :> :> :(Xeon) I think.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Xeon is a server CPU and is much better than the ones you find in
:> :> :> consumer PCs.
:> :> :
:> :> :Fine. Celeron, then.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> And you didn't know the difference without looking them up.
:> :
:> :Not true. I realize that Intel bought into the cheap-market as well as
:> :Dell,  EMachines and the minicase makers.
:> :
:>
:> And that's why you first said that the XEON was "an inferior Intel
:> CPU"?
:
:Which I corrected right away.
:

Yeah.  Right away after I told you Xeon was a server chip and BETTER
than what usually goes into consumer PCs.

:
:>
:> Sure, Eric.  Right on top of the facts, as usual...
:>
:
:Face it Freddy, despite your CS degree I have you beat. :)
:

Sure, you do, El Chimpko.  Whatever you need to believe to get through
your day...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> Hint:  Any board you could plug a Celeron into you could plug a
:> :> Pentium into.
:> :>
:> :
:> :PCMCIA on a desktop unit? And PCI into a laptop? Freddy, rigor. Get
:> :some.
:> :
:>
:> I don't know of any PCMCIA or PCI CPU boards, Eric.  Try reading what
:> I actually wrote.
:>
:
:You made a (another) sweeping statement about CPUs without thinking
:(often) and I brought up the fact that Celerons and Pentiums can be in
:both laptops (PCMCIA) and desktops (PCI). Your comment about
:compatibility is false.
:

You can't read.  Go read it again.  It's right up there.

Hint:  You also just flipped your position, what with your "I brought
up the fact that Celerons and Pentiums can be in both laptops (PCMCIA)
and desktops (PCI)".  It also doesn't make any sense, but that's
another matter.

Hint:  'Laptop' and 'PCMCIA' are not inextricably linked.  Neither are
'desktop' and 'PCI'.

Hint:  Again, note the wording of what I said "Any board you could
plug a Celeron into you could plug a Pentium into."  CPUs plug into
motherboards (or planars, if you prefer), not into EITHER PCMCIA *OR*
PCI cards.

:
:>
:> Reading is fundamental, son....
:>
:
:Get a better understand about things before making generalaizations.
:

Sadly, you really are as stupid as the preceding sequence makes you
sound.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Why the hell do you think those little cases with their little
:> :> :> :> motherboards currently sport 16-lane PCIe slots, Eric?
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Well maybe those cases are just fine with PCIe, but they sucked with
:> :> :> :regular PCI because they lacked an AGP slot.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Nope.  Some did and some didn't.  They had an AGP slot where the PCIe
:> :> :> slot is now.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Do I have to show you a mobo with PCI slots and no AGP dataed post
:> :> :2000?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> No, you have to prove that no boards in that form factor had AGP
:> :> slots.  At the very least, you need to prove that no boards in that
:> :> form factor used by eMachines or Dell had an AGP slot.
:> :>
:> :> Now wriggle some more, Eric, and tell us how you didn't mean what you
:> :> wrote AGAIN and it really meant something totally different.
:> :
:> :Okay, I'll get the mobo model.
:> :
:>
:> You run along and do that (as if it proves anything with regard to
:> your original ignorant statements)....
:
:Your comments about my statements are much more ignorant than anything
:I have stated.
:

Sure, Eric.  Whatever you need to believe to make it through the
day...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> You get that, El Chimpko?  Your idea of a 'typical' market machine is
:> :> :> :> :> :> WAY BELOW WHAT EMACHINES BUILDS.
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :I was speaking about a specific system before you lost your mind here.
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> No, you were offering recommendations that are hopelessly outdated.
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Fred, in case you haven't noticed, PCIe hasn't quite taken over yet.
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Show me motherboards without it.  Even the little dinky ones have it.
:> :> :> :> Show me a high-end graphics card that doesn't require it?
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> You're ignorant, as usual, Eric.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :In case you haven't noticed PCI and AGP haven't quite been retired.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Pretty much, yeah, they have.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Not yet. PCIe hasn't been around long enough.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Proof by assertion.  How long is 'required', Eric?
:> :>
:> :
:>
:> No response.  About what I expected...
:>
:
:By the time that the previous generation is gone or on its way out.
:Think about when PCI replaced ISA. And to your 'no response' comment,
:must be nice being a desk jockey for a fact DOD contractor.
:
:...or is it just you that is fat? LOL!!!!!!!
:

Well, I'm glad YOU think you're amusing.  Everyone else just thinks
you're stupid.

Poor Eric.  He's jealous of my fat wallet...

And just who do you work for again, Eric?

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :64-bit processing still uses pre-PCIe technology.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Hogwash!
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Yes, it has. Has Sun and Mac gone PCIe yet?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yes, they have.  They're not the only, or even the most numerous
:> :> "64-bit processing" machines.
:> :>
:> :> All those Intel machines are 64-bit hardware and have been for a long
:> :> time.  Mac runs on the Intel hardware these days.  Sun builds SPARC
:> :> motherboards with PCIe.
:> :>
:> :> Eric's ignorance bites him on the ass yet again...
:> :>
:> :
:> :Cites?
:> :
:>
:> Eric, I don't think it's news to anyone that current Macs are Intel
:> boxes pretty much identical insofar as hardware goes to high end
:> Windows boxes.  However, Apple's move to PCI Express even predates
:> that.  They made a Mac G5 with PCI Express over 2 years ago.
:
:Made "A", is the operative letter here...
:

Yes, they switched to using Intel chips and all of those are PCI
Express.

:
:>
:> http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/10/19/powermac/index.php
:>
:> http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLe...
:>
:> http://www.apple.com/macpro/expansion.html
:>
:> This stuff was real easy to find, Eric.
:
:Yes, that is why you did.
:

And why you couldn't, didn't, and didn't know it?

:
:>
:> As for Sun, the Sunblade 6000 isn't precisely a secret, either.
:>
:> http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?ref=g_search&id=507435
:>
:> Poor Eric.  Apparently his wetware is about as obsolete as his
:> hardware.
:>
:
:At least I know what a shift register is.
:

Congratulations.

<snicker>

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Many 128MB video cards
:> :> :> :on eBay still go for much more than 10 bucks.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> All sorts of things go on eBay for more than they're worth.
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :> :I bet if I open the small cases, E-Machines and Dell, side by side,
:> :> :> :> :> :> :and photographed the insides you could not tell the difference.
:> :> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> Hell, I bet *YOU* couldn't, since your description of the inside of an
:> :> :> :> :> :> eMachines box is YEARS out of date.
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :How many years McClod? PCIe is new.
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Jesus, El Chimpko, where have you BEEN?  PCIe was invented clear back
:> :> :> :> :> in 2002.  That's not 'new'.  That's several (computer) generations
:> :> :> :> :> back.
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :2004 you damn fool!
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Wrong.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Look at Wiki on PCIe. Created by Intel in 2004!
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Wiki is wrong.  Go read the references I gave you.  The standard came
:> :> :> out in 2002.
:> :> :
:> :> :The standard is not the market. You have an econ degree and hide like
:> :> :a fool (or should!) when a marketing issue comes out. Freddy, when
:> :> :something was made in the lab is not when it goes to market. Do you
:> :> :have a PCIe mobo with a 2002 copyright? Does anyone!?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Eric, the word we've both been using is "invented", not "first 100,000
:> :> sold".
:> :>
:> :
:> :When was PCI invented? ISA?
:> :
:>
:> Irrelevant.  You want to know, you look it up.
:>
:
:PCIe 2004 according to a variety of sources.
:

Wrong sources, apparently.  When was the PCI Express Standard issued
again, Eric?

:
:>
:> Just remember the difference between 'invented' and 'marketed'.
:>
:
:Sure thing Freddy. Like conceived and born.
:

Quite right.  Exactly like that.

Now would you like to tell us just what stupid point you THOUGHT you
were making with that statement?

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> Your position is like saying airplanes weren't invented until the DC-3
:> :> went into service.
:> :>
:> :
:> :But 1903 is the answer for commercial airlines either.
:> :
:>
:> You say that as if it means something.  When was the airplane
:> invented, Eric?
:>
:> [Long section demonstrating Eric's ignorance elided.]
:>
:
:Lost you again, Freddy?
:

<snicker>

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :I am talking about well after AGP and when
:> :> :> :> :minicases came out they made mobos wo/AGP slots and a few PCI slots
:> :> :> :> :(circa early 2000s).
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Your timeline doesn't hold together.  AGP support first appeared in
:> :> :> :> the late 1990s (tail end of 1997).  How much later must it be to be
:> :> :> :> "well after AGP"?  Apparently, only 5 years.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :My timeline is fine. Your knowledge of a backward trend in mobo
:> :> :> :technology to cut cost is what is in question here.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Your timeline is fucked.  Your 'knowledge' of a backward trend in mobo
:> :> :> technology to cut cost is, well, unreal.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Why use a cheap chip like Celeron and no AGP slot and make systems
:> :> :with minicases if not to cut costs, Freddy?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> What are you gibbering about now and what does it have to do with any
:> :> part of this discussion, Eric?
:> :>
:> :
:> :The point about no AGP slot on a mobo in 2000+.
:> :
:>
:> But that's irrelevant to the discussion, Eric.  Remember, we started
:> with your 'recommendation' for building a system, which amounted to
:> "AGP with a big power supply".
:>
:> In other words, your current recommendation is well behind what even
:> eMachines is building these days.
:
:But for how much? Wanna bet that PCI mobos go real cheap soon?
:

They already do.  What planet are you shopping on, again?

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Hint:  PCIe was invented right around 5 years ago.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Not according to Wiki. When did PCIe first come out? Lab time doesn't
:> :> :> :count.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Hint:  We've been using the word "invented", not "achieved significant
:> :> :> market penetration.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Well do I believe you or this article?http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_PCI_Express.html
:> :> :Hum, again w/2004 date...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Note that that article is talking about "The new pending PCIe version
:> :> 2.0".
:> :>
:> :> Go get the 1.0 Standard, Eric.  You'll find it has a mid-2002 date.
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :> :Here go get a dual P4 system ...
:> :> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> Why would I want to build an obsolete system?
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :Because you KNOW that it would work with all your software, etc. Has
:> :> :> :> :> :PCIe replaced PCI 100% WRT to all OSs (Windows, Linix, etc.) Is PCIe
:> :> :> :> :> :COMPLETELY transparent to the OS?
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Every OS I know of has had PCIe drivers in it for years, since you
:> :> :> :> :> pretty much can't run decent video without them.
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Since 2004 you mean when PCIe was invented.
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> It was invented in 2002.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :When did it come out Fred? What is the date on the first motherboard
:> :> :> :to have PCIe?
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> The word we've been using right along is "invented", Eric, not
:> :> :> "marketed".
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :2004, Freddy. No one could get it in 2002.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> INVENTED, El Chimpko.  In 2002.
:> :>
:> :
:> :When was PCI invented? ISA?
:> :
:>
:> Irrelevant.
:>
:> Eric, I know you don't read very well, but surely even you ought to be
:> able to understand the difference between when something is INVENTED
:> and when something is MARKETED.
:>
:> But apparently not.
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Did you actually read the following?
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :I read this:http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_PCI_Express.html
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Go read the 1.0 Standard.  Note the date.
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> --http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1152233,00.asp
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> "During the Spring 2001 Intel Developer Forum (IDF), Intel presented
:> :> :> :> their case for replacing the PCI bus and various internal chip
:> :> :> :> interconnects with a new Third Generation I/O, or 3GIO technology.
:> :> :> :> According to Intel, this 3GIO technology would take us through the
:> :> :> :> next decade, and work over a variety of physical media, from copper to
:> :> :> :> optical to whatever. Some of us witnessing the announcement first-hand
:> :> :> :> scoffed at Intel's claim of substantial industry support by Fall IDF
:> :> :> :> 2001, just six months away."
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Ok, concept in spring of 2001.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> "Intel proved us wrong: things gelled quickly and the PCI Special
:> :> :> :> Interest Group (PCI-SIG) approved the Arapahoe standard (another
:> :> :> :> codename for 3GIO) in early August 2001. Intel and its Arapahoe
:> :> :> :> Working Group partners, at the time including Compaq, Dell, IBM, and
:> :> :> :> Microsoft, went on the attack, garnering further industry support. By
:> :> :> :> the end of August, AMD ...
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> read more ï¿½
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Get me the first mobo date with PCIe.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> It's irrelevant to when it was invented, Eric, which is what we're
:> :> :> talking about.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :No, when could you or I have purchased one. Quite possibly the earlier
:> :> :ones were flawed. It happens all the time.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Irrelevant to when it was invented.  When was the airplane invented,
:> :> Eric?  When could you or I purchase one from a commercial vendor?
:> :>
:> :
:> :Good question.
:> :
:>
:> Not really.  It does, however, go directly to the point of you trying
:> to obfuscate the difference between 'invented' and 'marketed'.
:
:read wiki...2004. the other site...2004.
:

The PCI Express Standard...2002.

:
:>
:> PCI Express was INVENTED in 2002, Eric.
:>
:
:Then why do they came 2004? Are you sure that all the bugs weren't
:worked out until 2004? You can claim anything until it actually works.
:When did the first PCIe mobo that came out that ACTUALLY WORKED?
:

Eric, go by a dictionary.  Your idiocy has become just way too
tiresome.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> You know what the word "invented" means, don't you?
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Yes, you do it with "facts" all the time.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Thank you for the demonstration that you now finally recognize that
:> :> you are once again on your ass.  All you have left is ad hominem lies.
:> :>
:> :> Go look at the date on the PCI Express 1.0 Standard, Eric...
:> :
:> :When was the first one marketed?
:> :
:>
:> Irrelevant, since the word we've been using right along is "invented".
:
:They have been working an Mil-STD, rad-hard, 1394 for years Freddy.
:When was it invented? Answer the question!!
:

Define 'invented', El Chimpko.  Go look it up, since it's obvious you
haven't a clue as to what it means.


author: Jim Davis

subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Fevric J Glandules wrote:

Count your blessings, Fevric.

Jim Davis


author: Fred J. McCall

subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Fevric J Glandules <[email]> wrote:

:Eric & Fred,
:
:I'd just like to congratulate you guys on making some posts that are
:*so* fricking big that my newsreader can't display them.
:

Then you need to do two things:

1) Get a real newsreader.

2) Catch up.  I binned Eric a while back.


author: Hop David

subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Fevric J Glandules wrote:

And their prolific output is content free. Please plonk Eric and Fred.

Hop


subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Poor Eric.  This is it for him.  He's been so stupid for so long that
he's convinced me there's no way he'll ever say anything even remotely
interesting.

No doubt he'll consider this a 'victory'.  Well, sane people wouldn't
call being so abysmally stupid that people decide they aren't even
worth skipping through to be 'victory', but then we're not talking
about sane people.  We're talking about Eric Chomko.  Eric Chomko, who
thinks being 'correct' is 'overvalued.

Enjoy yourself, Eric.  This is your last reply for the foreseeable
future...

Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:

:On Aug 30, 8:27 am, Fred J. McCall <[email]> wrote:
:> Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:
:>
:> :On Aug 28, 11:45 pm, Fred J. McCall <[email]> wrote:
:> :> Eric Chomko <[email]> wrote:
:> :>
:> :
:> :[...]
:> :
:> :> :> :I need nothing from you, Freddy.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Good to hear.  Does that mean you're going to go away?
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You can't leave me alone McClod.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Poor El Chimpko.  Still delusions of grandeur.
:> :>
:> :> Eric, you've been teetering on the edge of my killfile for a long time
:> :> now.  Since I'm pretty much the only person that bothers with you at
:> :> all, what are you going to do when you tip into it again?
:> :
:> :Laugh at you resoundingly!!  McClod, you can't keep me in your
:> :killfile. The proof is in the posts. Besides with you out of the way,
:> :I'll get back on topic most likely. So go ahead. Do it McClod, put me
:> :in your killfile. If you can... hahahahahaha
:> :
:>
:> Eric will wriggle and try anything to avoid being killfiled again.
:>
:
:No, actually I'm taunting you and daring you to do it again. You can't
:and every reply makes you look more and more foolish.
:

You don't EVER get it right, do you, Eric?

:
:>
:> Eric will "get back on topic"?  That implies he's ever BEEN on topic,
:> which there doesn't seem to be any evidence for.
:>
:
:Yes and and I'm sure you view yourself as some sort of wise elder in
:the group, rather than the self-rightous blowhard that you are.
:

Eric is "sure" of just SO many things that are at odds with our
current reality...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> Get a lot smarter fast, Eric, or you're done.
:> :>
:> :
:> :No! I refuse. I dare you to killfile me. You can't get yourself to do
:> :it.
:> :
:>
:> Wriggle ... wriggle ... wriggle ...
:>
:
:It is a taunt you fool...
:

No, Eric.  It's a pathetic attempt to convince me not to bin you.  As
usual, your lack of understanding of human beings has played you
false.

:
:>
:> This tactic isn't working for you, either, El Chimpko.  Throw some
:> more feces and have a banana, why don't you?
:>
:
:You merely threaten to killfile me. You reallycan't do it.
:

Poor Eric.  Wrong again.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> So far the one thing
:> :> you've taught me is that true idiots like you can't be taught even the
:> :> simplest of things and apparently can't change.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Freddy, a change from you is a huge step backward.
:> :
:>
:> As usual, poor El Chimpko cannot read simple English.
:>
:
:That is Englisch to you...
:

English - get some.  Then have someone sane explain it to you.

:
:>
:> :
:> :The best part of course is you acting like putting me in your killfile
:> :has any real meaning.
:> :
:>
:> It means the last person that even bothers with you at all will be
:> gone, El Chimpko.  Then what?
:>
:
:Let's see shall we?
:

So now I guess we know.

I didn't miss you for the long period of time I had you killfiled.  I
rather suspect I shan't miss you now, either.

:
:>
:> :
:> :[...]
:> :
:> :> :> :You said "board". And now you're trying to change the subject (again).
:> :> :> :Typical of what you do when err. Poor Freddy...
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> I said "... that the CPU plugs into".  I know getting through a whole
:> :> :> sentence is hard for you, but you really need to try harder than this.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :No, you said "board". Reread and admit your error, if you're man
:> :> :enough...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yes, I said "board".  What do you call that thing the CPU socket is
:> :> attached to, Eric?
:> :>
:> :
:> :You stated plug-in board, not motherboard or system board.
:> :
:>
:> No, I did not.  This belief on your part is apparently the product of
:> your inability to read.
:>
:
:You were right about "wiggle", but missed that it was you and right
:here, in thread.
:

Poor Eric.  He doesn't know the difference between "board it plugs
into" and "plug-in board".

:
:>
:> :
:> :[...]
:> :
:> :> :Is it CPU socket or slot or "board" as in plug-in board which is not
:> :> :the same as a DRAM slot?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> What's the CPU socket attached to, Eric?  It's called a motherBOARD.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Not in the case of slots like Slot A.
:> :
:>
:> No, Eric, they were still called 'motherboards' even in the case of
:> the short-lived Slot A.
:
:The CPU board that fit into a Slot A slot is not a motherboard.
:Daughterboard, maybe.
:

The "CPU board" that fit into a Slot A slot was not a "board" at all.
It was a SECC.  That last 'C' stands for 'Cartridge', not 'board' or
even 'card'.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> What the hell do you think DRAM has to do with anything?
:> :>
:> :
:> :It plugs into a motherboard. The thing you are arguing about right
:> :now, you simple twit!
:> :
:>
:> No, dear boy.  Nobody is arguing anything at all about DRAM.
:>
:> Once again your poor reading and logic skills have betrayed you.
:>
:
:No, confusion has the best of you again.
:

No, you just think you do.  But then, you're confused...

:
:>
:> :
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Again, I understand it's difficult for you to get through an entire
:> :> :> sentence, but you REALLY need to try harder.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Fred, rather than admit your mistake you twist and squirm until you
:> :> :can't be "wrong". You're really pathetic that way.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yeah, I'm real pathetic how I won't admit mistakes I didn't make just
:> :> to make you happy.  Sorry, but you're not entitled to your own facts,
:> :> Eric.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Poor Freddy, in denial.
:> :
:> :Hint: Every relationship you lost has been a result of your inability
:> :to admit that you were wrong. Poor Freddy...
:> :
:>
:> Poor El Chimpko.  Clueless to the last.  No wonder he's stranded in a
:> loveless marriage with an older woman.
:>
:> Poor Paula, stuck with this clod!
:>
:
:We get along just fine. It is you that is divorced. Your wife left you
:because you no doubt analyzed things to death and lost your sense of
:humor eons ago. That is if you ever had one. And I can picture you at
:12, all serious with zero imagination. Poor Freddy...
:

Poor Eric.  The preceding sort of fantasy is the only way he can
convince himself that he and Paula "get along just fine".

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> I'm saying precisely what I said.  The fact that you can't read simple
:> :> :> :> declarative English sentences is YOUR problem.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Then repeat you statement and let's compare it to what you stated
:> :> :> :above.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Yes, let's, since what I originally said is RIGHT UP ABOVE.
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Hint:  Any board you could plug a Celeron into you could plug a
:> :> :> Pentium into.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Are you saying that Pentium sockets are the same as Celeron sockets?
:> :> :CPUs interchangable?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> FINALLY!!!!!!  I was beginning to wonder if you spoke English.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Yes, but "Pentium" as in P-66, P-60, differ and were before Celeron.
:> :Your statement about interchangability is more complicated than simply
:> :they plug into to each other's sockets. Read this page for some
:> :clarity:
:> :http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/373
:> :
:>
:> Gee, El Chimpko, by your reasoning it would seem that the Pentium
:> isn't compatible with the Pentium.
:>
:
:Very true, since there have been several Pentiums. II, III, IV. Have
:you been under a rock?
:

Keep reading and see the following.  Of course, I'm not dealing with
"anyone with a grain of intelligence".  I'm dealing with Eric Chomko,
who doesn't meet that requirement (or much of any other).

:
:>
:> Anyone with a grain of intelligence would make the correct inference
:> that what was being referred to was the case of processors that were
:> contemporary with each other.
:>
:
:You never stated that. Further, there have been processors that were
:comtemporaries that were different as well.
:

Poor Eric.  Note that "Anyone with a grain of intelligence would make
the correct inference".  Eric, of course, fails to do so.

:
:>
:> El Chimpko, of course, comes away all confused, instead.
:>
:
:No, that is just how you want me to be. Why is that? Do you actually
:enjoy other people in trouble? It seems so...
:

No, Eric.  It is your failure to be anything other than perpetually
stupidly confused that has put you back in my personal bit bucket.

Personally, I would like to see you actually learn something or say
something interesting.  But your head is so up and locked and you are
so obsessed with trying to 'win' (in the stupidest fashion possible)
that you'll never do either of those.

And so you're gone.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Now I know this is hard for you Eric, but note the qualifier of which
:> :> :> 'board' we're talking about here.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Pathetic...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yes, you really are.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Poor Freddy...
:> :
:>
:> Stupid El Chimpko...
:>
:
:Again, that is how you WANT me to be. It is that want that is in
:question, Freddy.
:

Again, that is NOT how I want you to be; it is how you ARE.  I'd like
to have seen you change, but you've demonstrated you are congenitally
unable to do so.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Also, are you saying that PCI and PCMCIA are plug compatible?
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> No, you stupid shit.  Are you really this unable to read?
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Good, then I can show you two systems where a Pentium and a Celeron
:> :> :> :are NOT compatible based upon plug-in boards.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Nobody said anything about plug-in boards, you stupid shit.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You said board! What is one suppose to think? Socket? No! Slot, as in
:> :> :Slot A? Maybe, but that is still unclear...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Perhaps if you pulled your head out of your ass things would be
:> :> clearer?
:> :>
:> :
:> :You made a false generalization since Pentiums predate Celerons.
:> :
:>
:> Gee, El Chimpko, by your reasoning it would seem that the Pentium
:> isn't compatible with the Pentium.
:>
:
:II is not with III nor is IV with II or III. That is pinout -wise.
:

Note:  "Anyone with a grain of intelligence would make the correct
inference".  But once again Eric fails to do so.

:
:Now, code-wise is different. Supposedly all Pentiums are downward
:compatible, code-wise.
:

Well, no, they're not "compatible, code-wise".

:
:>
:> Anyone with a grain of intelligence would make the correct inference
:> that what was being referred to was the case of processors that were
:> contemporary with each other.
:>
:
:Again, you act as if there was never any overlap. Add in AMD and you
:are totally baffled it would seem.
:

Again, you fail to recognize the inference that any sane person would
pick up on.

:
:>
:> El Chimpko, of course, comes away all confused, instead.
:>
:
:Freddy, repeats himself. Real smart guy!
:

El Chimpko never gets it.  Real smart guy!

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Yes, folks, Eric really is this stupid and really does read this
:> :> :> poorly.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :No Freddy, I caught you in another bout of lack of rigor on your part
:> :> :and you go into serious squirm mode. A true character flaw on your
:> :> :part. I use to think you'd get past it but it really appears to be
:> :> :terminal on your part.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yes, folks, Eric really is this stupid and really does read this
:> :> poorly.
:> :
:> :Isn't it obvious folks that Freddy has serious trouble admitting his
:> :mistakes. He thinks he's perfect. Another flaw.
:> :
:>
:> Poor El Chimpko.  He doesn't realize that in order for me to admit a
:> mistake I have to actually make one.  His inability to read is not MY
:> mistake.
:>
:
:Yep, since you're not capable of making mistakes, then you couldn't
:have done so. Right, HAL?
:

I make lots of mistakes, Eric.  But never the 'mistakes' you try to
claim.  Again, you don't realize that in order for me to admit a
mistake I have to actually make one.  Your inability to read is not MY
mistake.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> I'm saying precisely what I said.  The fact that you can't read simple
:> :> :> :> declarative English sentences is YOUR problem.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Uh huh....
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :<snicker>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Well, at least you've joined the rest of us in laughing at Eric
:> :> :> Chompko's stupidity, Eric...
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Sure, Freddy, sure...
:> :> :
:> :> :With you there is no "rest of". Your fate is like Ty Cobb's; to die
:> :> :alone and have no one at your funeral except jorunalists. THAT is how
:> :> :you are in relationships. In fact you are very seriously relaitionship-
:> :> :challenged to say the least. You know it, I know it, and you know I
:> :> :know it. THAT is why you cling to my posts.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Of course it is, Eric.  How are you going to delude yourself when I
:> :> finally dump you back into my killfile again?
:> :>
:> :
:> :You can't do it. You threaten. You did it for a few months and when I
:> :caught you being your jerk self from another poster's post you could
:> :not help youself and pulled me right out again. You can BS some of the
:> :people all the time and all the people some of the time, but I catch
:> :you Freddy.
:> :
:>
:> Poor El Chimpko.  He just doesn't get it.  You see, I believe that
:> even idiots like you deserve a second chance, so I rarely killfile
:> anyone permanently.  However, you've pretty much shown that you're
:> never going to get any better.
:>
:> I probably should have simply dumped you when all those folks asked me
:> to (which is how you got dumped last time), but some idiot had to try
:> being 'threatening'...
:>
:
:Yes, you were threatened and then you pulled me out of your killfile.
:Right...
:

No, Eric.  Obviously your Alzheimer's is kicking in again.  I mean,
you were right there for it.  I let you out of my killfile.  You were
being your usual stupid self.  I was considering killfiling you again,
and then some self-important ass had to come along and threaten to
killfile me if I didn't killfile you.  So you got a new lease on life.

Pity that idiot opened his mouth when he did...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Lasty, has PCIe made its way to laptops?
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Actually, yes, it has.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :And what is the percentage of the laptop market that is PCIe? What is
:> :> :> :the PCMCIA equivalent to PCIe? Have they created THAT yet? Just trying
:> :> :> :to see how far they have come with PCIe vs. what YOU say.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> I answer that right below, Eric.  I know patience is hard for little
:> :> :> children, but try to make it through the whole thing, won't you?
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Anything you say you condescending little prick...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Aww, did I hurt his widdle feelings?
:> :>
:> :
:> :You? Not at all. It is I that have you in check.
:> :
:>
:> Sorry, El Chimpko, but you're just a pawn.  If you think you're
:> 'winning' a victory here, you've obviously been rooked.
:>
:
:..by a Queen, at that. Touche', Freddy!  :))))
:

You need to stop making a horse's ass out of yourself, Eric.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Is there a PCIe replacement
:> :> :> :> :equivalent to PCMCIA on laptops?
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Yes, there is that, too.  It's called ExpressCard.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :>http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/about.jsp
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :I'll check it out. %%% of market, Freddy?
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> The military has just been told that for 2008 it will be impossible to
:> :> :> buy a laptop with more than a single PCMCIA slot because the rest have
:> :> :> been replaced by ExpressCard slots.  That's the WHOLE laptop market,
:> :> :> Eric.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :So the phaseout has begun. Just like when PCI took over ISA, it didn't
:> :> :happen overnight.
:> :> :
:> :> :Oh, the military once said that the programming language you will use
:> :> :is Ada. That was 25 years ago. Where is Ada today?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Still being used, Eric.
:> :>
:> :
:> :But not like the DOD once said it would be. PL/1 is being used as well
:> :Freddy, but not like IBM thought it would be. Hell, I'll bet you that
:> :BASIC, both old and new versions of it, are more popular than both Ada
:> :and PL/1. The point is that the DOD learned nothing from IBM when they
:> :should have about how Ada was going to replace all, just like IBM
:> :thought PL/1 would replace all. C, Freddy...
:> :
:>
:> And El Chimpko has fallen into the same trap, thinking that 'C' is the
:> current hot language.
:>
:
:For me it is. I like it better than C++ and so does a lot of other
:people that haven't jumped onto the Object-Oriented bandwagon.
:

Yes, but nobody cares about your little reality, Eric.  You don't get
your own facts...

:
:>
:> Time has just passed the poor old monk by...
:>
:
:Not at all. C is the new assembly language, old sock...
:

Yeah, at all.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> Why am I surprised that you don't know the difference between what
:> :> "the military once said" and what they're being told on a COMMERCIAL
:> :> PROCUREMENT?
:> :>
:> :
:> :The point is that just because the military backs something in IT
:> :doesn't mean that that will become the standard.
:> :
:>
:> That's a rather silly point to try to make based on the military being
:> told that they'll have a hard time commercially procuring laptops with
:> at least 2 PCMCIA slots.
:>
:
:Get a wavier and/or get them used. It can be done.
:

Get a "wavier" of WHAT, you stupid shit?  It's not the RULES
preventing them from buying machines configured that way.  It's that
THE MACHINES DON'T EXIST ON THE COMMERCIAL MARKET ANYMORE.

You don't buy 'new buy' hardware used, you silly shit.  The purpose of
the hardware is to replace old hardware with new, not replace old
hardware with old.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :The reason I ask is that you seem to
:> :> :> :> :think PCIe has taken over. But, just how far?
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> The reason you ask is because you're an ignorant shit who doesn't know
:> :> :> :> well known facts about the technologies you tout yourself as being an
:> :> :> :> expert in.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :What ever gets you through the night.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Being smarter, better informed, and better off than you certainly does
:> :> :> that.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :How could you possibly know?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> It's obvious from your stupidity and posturing.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Freddy sees posturing on USENET. He looks into his crystal
:> :balls....with a large magnifying glass...
:> :
:>
:> There goes poor Eric, fantasizing about other men's genitalia again.
:>
:> No means no, El Chimpko...
:>
:
:That's not what you tell all the other guys.
:

You need to get over your pathetic little fits of jealousy, Eric...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :I sleep at night.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> That's nice.  So do I.  The difference is that I don't post in my
:> :> sleep, while you apparently do.
:> :>
:> :
:> :You appear drunk most of the time.
:> :
:>
:> And yet you still get everything wrong and get your head handed to
:> you.
:>
:
:Sure I do...
:
:<rolling eyes>
:

Here's your head.  Now put your eyes back in before they get all
dusty.

:
:>
:> Perhaps you should try drinking more, since you're obviously mentally
:> defective when you're ostensibly sober?
:>
:
:Is that what you do?
:

Poor Eric.  This is the best he can do...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You build weapons. If
:> :> :you had a conscience rather than false bravdo you wouldn't be adding
:> :> :to the war machine.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> You know where all that 'rocket' stuff started, right?
:> :>
:> :
:> :The Germans, in a club. And before that a PhD in physics named
:> :Goddard. The military came in much later, Freddy.
:> :
:>
:> And it was pretty much going nowhere until they started trying to put
:> things on those military rockets, El Chimpko.
:>
:
:Which is fine. And then stop. It is the lack of stopping that is the
:problem.
:

I presume that's supposed to make sense.  It doesn't.  But it also
doesn't matter.

:
:>
:> :
:> :It is one thing to point the rockets to the heavens and another to
:> :point them at your fellow human beings. You appear to be fascinated
:> :with the latter.
:> :
:>
:> Blot, dear boy.  You're getting your keyboard all wet again.
:>
:
:Sure, you don't care. Let the next generation deal with it.
:

You're drooling so much we have to worry about whether the next
generation has to deal with it?

:
:>
:> :
:> :[...]
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :At least I know the difference between a board and a socket!
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Apparently not.  Perhaps you should do some research and find out what
:> :> that socket is attached to.  People don't buy 'sockets', El Chimpko.
:> :> They buy motherBOARDs.
:> :>
:> :
:> :No, they buy CPUs that fit into sockets or CPUs on boards that fit
:> :into slots.
:> :
:>
:> Well, no.  What's that socket attached to, El Chimpko?  As for those
:> things that plug into Slot A, Slot 1, and Slot 2, they weren't
:> "boards" at all, El Chimpko.  They were called 'cartridges'.  That's
:> why the abbreviation for the things was SECC.
:>
:
:"Cartridge" is another name for daughtercard? Who knew?
:

Nobody did.  Because it wasn't a 'daughtercard'.  It was a Single-Edge
Connector Cartridge.

Poor Eric.  Nothing ever works out for him...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :[...]
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :By the time that the previous generation is gone or on its way out.
:> :> :> :> :> :Think about when PCI replaced ISA. And to your 'no response' comment,
:> :> :> :> :> :must be nice being a desk jockey for a fact DOD contractor.
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :...or is it just you that is fat? LOL!!!!!!!
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Well, I'm glad YOU think you're amusing.  Everyone else just thinks
:> :> :> :> :> you're stupid.
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Everyone else? THAT is funny!
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Oh?  Anyone here that doesn't think Eric is stupid?  Anyone at all?
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Thought nobody sane would sign up on that one...
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Poor Eric.  He's jealous of my fat wallet...
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Freddy thinks real wealth is a fat wallet. What a fat head...
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> El Chimpko lies a lot.  'Real wealth' is, of course, things like land
:> :> :> :> and buildings and such.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Measuring wealth in stuff again Freddy? You can't take it with you.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> But it sure makes things more fun while I'm here.
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Hint:  You can't take ANY of it with you, Eric.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :But you can leave it here and have it grow after you're gone if you do
:> :> :it right.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> So you're leaving fungus behind?
:> :>
:> :
:> :Yes, in fact which is much more than you will be leaving behind.
:> :
:>
:> And so El Chimpko admits that his fondest desire and the best he can
:> do is a legacy of fungus...
:>
:
:It's alive!!
:

And it's smarter than its Daddy!

:
:>
:> :
:> :You remind me of a bad investment.
:> :
:>
:> No doubt I do, since every time you get involved with me you wind up
:> losing.
:>
:
:Yes, you are just like the war.
:

Poor Eric.  Nothing makes sense and yet he thinks he's being SO
clever...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Now, would you like to tell us what the primary business of your
:> :> :> employer is?
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You first...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> I guess Eric's Alzheimers is kicking in again.
:> :>
:> :
:> :You never said who you worked for. You said you made weapon systems.
:> :
:>
:> Poor Eric.  Would someone like to tell him who I work for?  It seems
:> he's the only person on Usenet who is so stupid that he doesn't know.
:>
:
:No one ever answers for you McClod. I suspect that your importance is
:less than you think it is.
:

Poor Eric.  His Alzheimer's is kicking in again...

:
:>
:> :
:> :Fine, I work in Earth Science as a computer professional.
:> :
:>
:> That wasn't the question, Eric.  Once again your deficient reading
:> skills and defective intellectual abilities have let you down.
:>
:
:I said, you go first. Stated who you work for.
:

Been there.  Done that.  Poor Eric.  His Alzheimer's is kicking in
again...

:
:>
:> Let's try again.
:>
:> Now, would you like to tell us what the primary business of your
:> employer is?
:>
:
:You first. Why is that so difficult?
:

Been there.  Done that.  Poor Eric.  His Alzheimer's is kicking in
again...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Basically, my skills are
:> :> :> :> :embedded in low-level programming. I am able to decipher data, both
:> :> :> :> :real and simulated down to the bit level. When everyone else has not
:> :> :> :> :been able to figure out what a block of data means or is, I come in. I
:> :> :> :> :figure it out.
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :I could take your job in weeks, it would take you years to learn mine.
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Poor El Chimpko.  Your whole job is just a small part of mine.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :You a manager or task leader??!!
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> The actual title is "Technical Lead".  I'm not a manager by choice.
:> :> :> I'm an engineer, not a bean counter.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :I say the exact same thing. Exact, including the part about not being
:> :> :a manager by choice. All true. I have not submitted a resume for over
:> :> :10 years but managed to have three different jobs. I have found a
:> :> :niche that has gotten me placed. So just because you're a hot-shot ex-
:> :> :navy guy with nuke experience don't think others can't have the same
:> :> :clout as you, Freddy.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Not 'others', Eric.  You.  You're an idiot.  Everyone is in agreement
:> :> that you're an idiot.  You are a fluke of the universe.  You have no
:> :> right to be here.  Whether you can hear it or not, the universe is
:> :> laughing behind your back.
:> :>
:> :
:> :The universe and I are just fine. By your paragragh above, it is
:> :obvious that the you have trouble in the universe.
:> :I have just as much right to be here as you do. For you to think
:> :someone has less of a right to be as you do is a character flaw. It is
:> :certainly un-American to say the least.
:> :
:>
:> Poor El Chimpko.  To go with all his other ignorance, he's apparently
:> never heard of The Deteriorata.
:>
:> Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
:> And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
:> Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
:> Rotate your tires.
:> Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
:> And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
:> Know what to kiss, and when.
:> Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.
:> Wherever possible, put people on hold.
:> Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
:> and despite the changing fortunes of time,
:> There is always a big future in computer maintenance.
:>
:> Remember The Pueblo.
:> Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
:> Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
:> Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
:> Especially with those persons closest to you -
:> That lemon on your left, for instance.
:> Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
:> Would scarcely get your feet wet.
:> Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.
:> Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna,
:> Taiwan.
:> And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
:> Hire people with hooks.
:> For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
:> Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
:> That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
:> And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
:> It could only be worse in Milwaukee.
:>
:> You are a fluke of the universe.
:> You have no right to be here.
:> And whether you can hear it or not,
:> The universe is laughing behind your back.
:>
:> Therefore, make peace with your god,
:> Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
:> With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
:> The world continues to deteriorate.
:> Give up!
:>
:
:It seems that you follow is as if it were your own creed. Clearly the
:above was meant to be humorous.
:

Yes, it was.  But you're such an idiot and such a cultural illiterate
that we've had to go through all this for you to figure that out.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :No friggin way! You'd drive everyone
:> :> :> :nuts.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Nope.  We don't hire people as stupid as you, you see.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You could not afford me.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yeah, right.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Well, what do IT people get that have over 25 years experience in your
:> :shop?
:> :
:>
:> The ones with your lack of skills get 'fired'.
:>
:
:That did happen once to me. I then took over their operation with my
:next job.
:

Sure, Eric.  And you're able to leap tall buildings in a single bound,
too.

Poor Eric....

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :And all the security crap you go through.
:> :> :Haw...
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Yeah, none of that at NASA...
:> :>
:> :
:> :Not nearly as much as you get in the DOD.
:> :
:>
:> Poor, silly El Chimpko.  Clueless to the last...
:>
:
:For you to work for NASA would be a step up, Freddy.
:

Nope.  I could be working on CEV but I didn't want to go to
Huntsville.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> <snicker>
:> :>
:> :> Well, probably not, at your level...
:> :>
:> :
:> :Which is JUST how I like it. Send the next interviewer for you my
:> :way... :)
:> :
:>
:> Why?  I don't think we have an opening with the job title "Corporate
:> Fool" to fill.
:>
:
:I was speaking about someone enquiring about your background, military
:fool.
:

Why would they want to talk to you?  I suspect they only seriously
interview sane people.

:
:>
:> :
:> :Huh, the same can't be said for me sending one your way? Ah,  too
:> :bad...
:> :
:>
:> Eric, if I wanted to work for your company, I already know a bunch of
:> folks who do so.
:>
:
:You do? Who?
:
:You would probably last less than 6 months at GSFC, NASA.
:

Sure, Eric.  Just because YOU keep having to find new employers
doesn't mean most people do.

:
:>
:> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :No, they give you a task and send you away for a awhile. Check
:> :> :> :in for status once in awhile and have someone else present what you
:> :> :> :did. You are NOT a people person, Freddy. You can't even get along
:> :> :> :with people on USENET. You're a slave to your own brain.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Sure, Eric.  Whatever counter-factual delusions you need to believe to
:> :> :> get you through the day.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Fred, I have read your posts with others. Always the same thing.
:> :> :Everybody is simply dumber than you, you know more than they know and
:> :> :then you piss them off and they leave. You are not THAT smart but you
:> :> :are THAT annoying. I stick around because your pomposity is actually
:> :> :amusing and I am commited to you getting a sense of humility. It is a
:> :> :very challenging task.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Well, I agree that you should be committed, but other than that,
:> :> you're pretty much off target above.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Could you be more vague?
:> :
:>
:> Could you be more stupid?
:>
:
:No.
:

See, we don't always disagree.  I don't think you could be any more
stupid, either.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :[...]
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :> Poor Eric.  Apparently his wetware is about as obsolete as his
:> :> :> :> :> :> hardware.
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :At least I know what a shift register is.
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Congratulations.
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Hopefully, now so do you...
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Poor El Chimpko.  How do I tell him I *stopped* worrying about stuff
:> :> :> :> like that 30+ years ago?
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Oh, what are your worries these days?  Do tell, are you a manager? How
:> :> :> :many people do you manage?
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Poor Eric.  He just doesn't get it.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :And you're not saying either. Perhaps you don't get it?
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> <snicker>
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> <snicker>
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :[...]
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :> :When was PCI invented? ISA?
:> :> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> Irrelevant.  You want to know, you look it up.
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :PCIe 2004 according to a variety of sources.
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Wrong sources, apparently.  When was the PCI Express Standard issued
:> :> :> :> :> again, Eric?
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :> Just remember the difference between 'invented' and 'marketed'.
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :Sure thing Freddy. Like conceived and born.
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Quite right.  Exactly like that.
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Well, think of premature birth, miscarriage and abortion...
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Think about irrelevancies.  Oh, wait.  You already are.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Now would you like to tell us just what stupid point you THOUGHT you
:> :> :> :> :> were making with that statement?
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :What is the earliest mobo with a copyright date on it that is PCIe?
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Irrelevant to when PCIe was invented.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Invented as in working? Or when they started? You cannot show me a
:> :> :> :single thing other than a single article (I showed you two, including
:> :> :> :wiki) that stated that PCIe was invented in 2002. Everything else says
:> :> :> :2004.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Go look at the date on the Standard, Eric.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :2004.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Wrong.  I've already pointed out it was in 2002, Eric.
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> You're tiresomely boring with your inability to understand simple
:> :> :> English words and phrases these days.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Do a Google and tell me what the majority states about PCIe.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Is that supposed to make sense?
:> :
:> :When was the first PCIe marketed?
:> :
:>
:> This is irrelevant to when it was invented, El Chimpko.  And
:> "invented" is the word we've been using.
:>
:> Is it starting to sink in yet?
:>
:
:Yes, you're pretty clueless about when IT things come to fruation.
:

We're not talking about "when IT things come to fruation" [sic], Eric.
We're talking about when something was "INVENTED".

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :[...]
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :But for how much? Wanna bet that PCI mobos go real cheap soon?
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> They already do.  What planet are you shopping on, again?
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Good, I'll upgrade mine with a faster CPU and more memory. But I will
:> :> :> :> :buy a mobo that is PCIe just to play around with and teach you about
:> :> :> :> :the technology. Stay tuned...
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> You better start making sense REAL fast, Eric.  So far the one thing
:> :> :> :> you've taught me is that you're so irretrievably stupid that you're
:> :> :> :> zero value added.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :FOAD Freddy, I don't care if I make sense to you. You do not and will
:> :> :> :never pay my salary. Get it, chump?
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Damned straight I do not and will never pay your salary.  I wouldn't
:> :> :> hire an incompetent schmuck like you.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You have no idea. I wouldn't work in your environment. I have a sense
:> :> :of honor that will not allow me to make weapons. Sorry if my sense of
:> :> :dignity exposes you for the whore that you are.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Who do you work for, again?  What's their main business?
:> :>
:> :
:> :Engineering. Probably just like you.
:> :
:>
:> Not quite what they say about themselves.
:>
:> "... a leading provider of comprehensive information and
:> communications products, solutions, and services for National
:> Security. Serving the Department of Defense, intelligence agencies,
:> and other government customers,..."
:>
:
:I think you are quoting a previous employer. Nice try, though...
:
:Besides, the above can be just about anyone in the engineering
:services industry. Since starting as a NASA contractor I have worked
:for 8 different companies. Some with name changes, others on the same
:contract and a company switch.
:

I can understand why you have to keep jumping companies, Eric...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Jerks like you don't survive in the real world. You're stuck in DOD
:> :> :> :world forever. Get used to it.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> This is really QUITE funny.  Eric the NASA contractor talking about
:> :> :> the 'real world'.
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :I write Perl and C programs. They are in demand everywhere. In fact,
:> :> :the number of  programmers is decreasing where the number of
:> :> :programming jobs is increasing. And I can speak and express myself in
:> :> :English! I have a distinct advantage.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Compared to what?
:> :>
:> :
:> :To the people abroad that are learning to write computer software
:> :because Americans don't seem to be interested in doing so anymore.
:> :
:>
:> So you think we should 'buy American', even when the product is
:> inferior, like you?
:>
:
:I think you should join a union.
:

Don't try to kid us.  You don't think.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> Hint:  You're way out of date...
:> :>
:> :
:> :And that is my niche. Really good carpenters and craftsmen are way out
:> :of date as well.  I don't do GUI programming. All command line stuff.
:> :Archaic? Damn straight, but much in demand.
:> :
:> :Hell, I was speaking to a CompSci student about assembly language
:> :programming and the good old days of CISC where you could write code
:> :that got right down to the computer hardware. He had heard of such
:> :things but was so far away from the archtitecture and writing GUI code
:> :he seemed lost.
:> :
:>
:> Poor El Chimpko.  He doesn't even understand the things he touts
:> himself as being the expert in.
:>
:
:Do you know the difference between a general purpose register, an
:index register and an accumulator? Do you know what a program counter
:is? Do you know how to change it?
:

The sad thing is that Eric actually thinks:

1) That the preceding are some kind of special arcane and largely
unknown knowledge.

2) That this 'arcane' knowledge is germane to modern CPUs.

:
:Are you going to claim that you know assembly language better than I
:do, McClod?
:

More and better, Chimpko.

But most people haven't bothered with assembly for a long time.  A
decent optimizing compiler gives you better results than trying to
hand-code stuff these days.  In the modern world talent costs too much
to waste it dicking around with assembly language.

:
:>
:> Explain to us the connection between "the good old days of CISC" and
:> "you could write code that got right down to the computer hardware".
:>
:
:Today all CPUs are RISC (Reduced Instrcution Set Computer) as compared
:to the old days of CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computer). See:
:http://cse.stanford.edu/class/sophomore-college/projects-00/risc/risccisc/
:

Irrelevant to your earlier statement.

:
:RISC assembly languages are bland and you quickly want to write a set
:of primitive instructions to get you to a language like say, Forth or
:a version of tiny C, to actually do any real work. Not so back in the
:days of CISC. The instructions were richer and you could write volumes
:of code and get lots done without feeling the need to write
:primatives. You could create short-cuts (i.e. routines or macros) to
:assist with your work, but you still worked with the CISC (so named
:with the advent of RISC) language to do much of your programming.
:Today is easier to simply use C for bitwise manipulations than RISC
:assembly and the latter tends to be restricted from general users
:anyway.
:

Poor Eric.  He doesn't realize that writing "right down to the
hardware" is *EASIER* with a RISC chip, since you don't have to worry
about all the shit going on in the microcode on the processor like you
do with a CISC chip.

:
:>
:> Your phrasing seems to indicate that the former is a necessary
:> condition for the latter, but that would just be, well, stupid.
:>
:
:Are you saying that CISC is still alive and well? Mil-STD 1750,
:Freddy? Ha-ha... and you call me an old monk.
:

No, Eric, I'm saying that your attempt to link "the good old days of
CISC" and "you could write code that got right down to the computer
hardware" is simply nuts, since you can do the same thing on RISC
chips.

:>
:> Of course, you ARE Eric Chompko...
:>
:
:Okay Freddy, where isn't RISC? Where is CISC? We'll take it from there
:and see if you know what you are talking about.
:

As usual, Eric can't read...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Who do you work for, again, Eric?  What's their main business?  Looks
:> :> :> like you were shunted to a backwater because you couldn't handle it in
:> :> :> "DOD world".
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :No, I chose away from it. I came from the DOD, Freddy.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> No, El Chimpko, you didn't.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Yes, I did. I won't choose for you if you won't choose for me. Fair
:> :enough? Do you even get where I am coming from?
:> :
:>
:> I'm not interested in wanting to "choose for you".  I'm simply noting
:> that your preposterous notion that you "came from the DOD" merely
:> because Daddy wore a uniform is worse than stupid.
:>
:
:Were you born on a fort? Did you grow up in a DOD household? If not,
:then you have no idea.
:

Poor Eric.  He thinks he's the only person on the planet whose Daddy
wore a uniform and that that somehow means that he "came from the
DOD".

You were correct above, Eric.  You couldn't get any stupider if you
tried.

:
:>
:>  It indicates a
:> deep seated psychological ambivalence on your part, where you are a
:> 'wannabe' and in denial of that because you can't actually BE.
:>
:
:You make me laugh since I have already passed what my equivalent
:military posistion both educationally and career-wise would be for my
:age.
:

Not hardly, Eric.

:
:Sorry Freddy, just because you chose the military and I did not
:doesn't make you right and me wrong. I did what I did and you did what
:you did. I don't claim you are wrong for your decision, why do you
:claim that I am wrong with mine?
:

Where did I make any such claim, Eric?  What I said is that you are an
IDIOT because you insist that just because your Daddy wore a uniform
that you "came from the DOD".  You don't.  And you don't know shit
about it.

Why so defensive, Eric?  Poor little wannabe....

:
:Perhaps you felt you HAD to join up? Anything less was not acceptable
:within the guidelines of your family?
:

Poor Eric.  He just trips from one stupid remark to another...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :You forgot that I was born on a fort.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> That's nice.  So what?
:> :>
:> :
:> :I saw early on that I wanted nothing to do with the military career-
:> :wise.
:> :
:>
:> And I suspect the feeling was mutual.
:>
:
:Not really. I did quite well with military computers as a kid. In
:fact, I owe the Army a debt of gratitude for the oppurtunity to learn
:the student computer at West Point. And I have thanked the Colonel in
:charge at the time for that oppurtunity.
:

They only have one computer at West Point?  Who knew?

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :I passed up West Point.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Of course you did.  Like you could have gotten in.
:> :>
:> :
:> :Yes, my father was an instructor there from 1970-73. I had an inside
:> :track. My grades were good enough. I would have graduated with the
:> :first female cadets at WP had I gone.
:> :
:>
:> Hint:  West Point doesn't do 'legacies' unless your Daddy has a bunch
:> of stars, Eric.
:>
:
:Then why did he ask me if I wanted to go? This was the mid 70s.
:

You'd have to ask him that.  Probably wanted to point out to you all
the shit you needed to do if you wanted to go.

:
:>
:> You didn't have "an inside track" at all.  Which
:> explains why you didn't go there.  So now you convince yourself that
:> you didn't want to.
:>
:
:So are you calling my father a liar? Are you, McClod?
:

No, I'm calling you an idiot, Chimpko.  Has it really taken you this
long to figure that out?

:
:Several of my
:classmates with fathers that had the same rank as my father (Colonel)
:went.
:

That's nice.

:
:Start were not needed. At least not back in the mid 70s.
:

What's that mean in English, Eric?

Anyway, I suggest you go take a look at just what it takes to get into
West Point.  No special edge because your Daddy was a colonel, son,
and he certainly couldn't just get you in.  Sorry.

:
:>
:> Poor Eric.
:>
:
:<snicker>
:

Blot the keyboard, son...

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :Yes, I decided that
:> :> :having some jerk upper classman that acts just like you wasn't what I
:> :> :wanted, nor did I want to become that jerk. Too bad the Navy left that
:> :> :stamp on you.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Poor Eric.  He lives in such a state of delusion...
:> :>
:> :
:> :Well Freddy, the Navy certainly never taught you about the term
:> :"empowerment". But I know you can get it!
:> :
:>
:> And El Chimpko once again demonstrates his ignorance about all things,
:> including things military.
:
:What does "empowerment" mean, Freddy?
:

With Eric Chimpko I expect it means you're licking the light socket
again.

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :[...]
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :> :They have been working an Mil-STD, rad-hard, 1394 for years Freddy.
:> :> :> :> :> :When was it invented? Answer the question!!
:> :> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> Define 'invented', El Chimpko.  Go look it up, since it's obvious you
:> :> :> :> :> haven't a clue as to what it means.
:> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :> :Well what do you call the state of Mil-STD 1394 rad-hard, now Freddy?
:> :> :> :> :
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> I call it irrelevant, El Chimpko.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :Because you're too damn dumb to understand the difference between
:> :> :> :being worked on, invented, and marketed. Only the latter is proof.
:> :> :> :Everything else is words in the IT business.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> When the approved Standard comes out it's not being 'worked on'
:> :> :> anymore.
:> :> :>
:> :> :> The word we've been using is "invented", not "marketed".
:> :> :>
:> :> :> What's the date on that Standard again, Eric?
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :2004. Ask anybody. Only YOU say 2002.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> I don't need to 'ask anybody'.  I looked at the bloody thing.  It came
:> :> out in 2002.  You're merely lying, now.
:> :>
:> :> Sad, really...
:> :>
:> :
:> :Sad that you think a standard is a product. The first PCIe products
:> :stated showing up in 2004. That is when everyone reconizes the date
:> :yet you cling to paper.
:> :
:>
:> Try making the product without that paper, Eric.
:>
:> Once again you demonstrate a fine disregard for the difference between
:> "invented", "productized", and "marketed".  The word we've been using
:> is "invented".  THAT date is 2002.
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :> :I guess since you're in the DOD and everything you makes gets blown up
:> :> :> :anyway real quality control is meaningless.
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Pure ignorance on your part, Eric.  But by this time I'm sure nobody
:> :> :> is surprised at that...
:> :> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :A standard is not a motherboard, Freddy. IBM made the PC in August of
:> :> :1981. Perhaps the ISA standard was made in Oct. of 1980 in Boca Roton?
:> :> :When was the ISA bus invented, Freddy? Aug. 1981.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> Poor Eric, he still doesn't understand the difference between
:> :> 'invented' and 'marketed'.
:> :
:> :I know what works vs. what 'on paper' means.  I bet you sell paper and
:> :not products too, right?
:> :
:>
:> I sell both.  You can't do the products without the paper, El Chimpko.
:> You'd know that if you knew anything at all about engineering.
:>
:
:Do your products work? Does your paper accurately describe your
:product?
:

Of course and of course, Eric.  Do yours routinely not, that it even
occurs to you to ask the question?

Bye now.

<plonk>


subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Jim Davis <[email]> wrote:

:Fevric J Glandules wrote:
:
:> Eric & Fred,
:>
:> I'd just like to congratulate you guys on making some posts that
:> are *so* fricking big that my newsreader can't display them.
:
:Count your blessings, Fevric.
:

He would, but he can't get past 'one'...


subject: Re: FWD: Henry in Absentia

text:
Hop David <[email]> wrote:

:Fevric J Glandules wrote:
:> Eric & Fred,
:>
:> I'd just like to congratulate you guys on making some posts that are
:> *so* fricking big that my newsreader can't display them.
:>
:
:And their prolific output is content free. Please plonk Eric and Fred.
:

And Hop's content amounts pretty much to exactly this.  Unless you're
in junior high school, please ignore juveniles like Hop.


author: Thomas

subject: ln(1+ax+by)

text:
Hi,

i have read the following:
ln(1+ax+by)=ax+by after making a small approximation (without specifying what the approximation is).
can someone explain to me what approximation was made?
I am attaching the initial equation
thanks


author: Luis A. Afonso

subject: Re: ln(1+ax+by)

text:
Karl said :
clearly this is good only if ax+by is small, i.e. much smaller than 1.
***********************

For |ax+by| = 0.1
LOG(1.1) = 0.0953
LOG(.9)  =-0.1054
For |ax+by|= 0.01
LOG(1.01)= 0.0100
LOG(.99) =-0.0101


subject: Re: ln(1+ax+by)

text:
Thanks Karl,

is it possible to be more specific. It is very important to know whether this approximation was made based on the assumptions that ax and by have very small values or not. my math skills are not advanced.your help is greatly appreciated.


author: karl

subject: Re: ln(1+ax+by)

text:
Thomas schrieb:

clearly this is good only if ax+by is small, i.e. much smaller than 1.


author: [redacted]

subject: CDRH Laser regulations

text:
As posted by the Center for Devices and Radiological Health (CDRH) regulation
21 CFR 1040.10 and 21 CFR 1040.11, the standard classification for lasers are as
follows:

Class I laser product: No known biological hazard. The light is shielded from
any possible viewing by a person and the laser system is interlocked to prevent
the laser from being on when exposed.
(large laser printers such as the DEC LPS-40 has a 10mW HeNe driving it which
is a Class IIIb laser, but the printer is interlocked so as to prevent any
contact with the exposed laser beam, hence the device produces no known
biological hazard, even though the actual laser is Class IIIb. This would also
apply to CD players and small laser printers, as they are Class I devices).

Class II laser products: Power up to 1 milliwatt. These lasers are not
considered a optically dangerous device as the eye reflex will prevent any
occular damage. (I.E. when the eye is hit with a bright light, the eye lid will
automatically blink or the person will turn thier head so as to remove the
bright light. This is called the reflex action or time. Class II lasers won't
cause eye damage in this time period. Still, one wouldn't want to look at it
for an extended period of time.) Caution labels (yellow) should be placed on
the laser equipment. No known skin exposure hazard exist and no fire hazard
exist.

Class IIIa laser products: Power output between 1 milliwatt and 5 milliwatt.
These lasers can produce spot blindness under the right conditions and other
possible eye injuries. Products that have a Class IIIa laser should have a
laser emission indicator to tell when the laser is in operation. They should
also have a Danger label and output aperature label attatched to the laser
and/or equipment. A key operated power switch SHOULD be used to prevent
unauthorized use. No known skin hazard of fire hazard exist.

Class IIIb laser products: Power output from 5 milliwatts to 500 milliwatts.
These lasers are considered a definate eye hazard, particularly at the higher
power levels, which WILL cause eye damage. These lasers MUST have a key switch
to prevent unathorized use, a laser emission indicator, a 3 to 5 second time
delay after power is applied to allow the operator to move away from the beam
path and a mechanical shutter to turn the beam off during use. Skin may be
burned at the higher levels of power output as well as the flash point of some
materials which could catch fire. (I have seen 250mW argons set a piece of red
paper on fire in less than 2 seconds exposure time !) A red DANGER label and
aperature label MUST be affixed to the laser.

Class IV laser products: Power output >500 milliwatts. These CAN and WILL cause
eye damage. The Class IV range CAN and WILL cause materials to burn on contact
as well as skin and clothing to burn. These laser systems MUST have:

A key lockout switch to prevent unauthorized use
Inter-locks to prevent the system from being used with the protective covers
off
Emission indicators to show that the laser is in use
Mechanical shutters to block the beam
Red DANGER labels and aperature labels affixed to the laser

The reflected beam should be considered as dangerous as the primary beam.
(again, I have seen a 1,000 watt CO2 laser blast a hole through a piece of
steel, so imagine what it would do to your eye !)

Any laser system that has a power output of greater than 5 milliwatts MUST be
registered with the FDA and Center for Devices and Radiological Health if it
has an exposed beam, such as for entertainment (I.E. Laser light shows) or for
medical use (such as surgery) where someone other than the operator may come in
contact with it. (this is called a 'varience' and I have filled them out and
submitted them and they ARE a royal pain in the backside !)

-=-= Wes =-=-


subject: Re: CDRH Laser regulations

text:
Seems as though the regulations have changed over the years. I recall
Popular Electronics running an article on a 100 mw ruby laser.
This was in the late sixties and the cost of a ruby rod was prohibitively high.
I don't recall anything about having to register the finished product. PR
offered the pcb and a synthetic rod.
I do remember that dozens of people wrote in requesting schematics for 1 watt
or better devices.
PE declined, claiming the higher rating might cause blindness.
Do gas lasers have a narrower beam than the old rod types? Why the disparity in
danger levels?   -LINETRAMP-


author: Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems

subject: Re: CDRH Laser regulations

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] writes:

You're mixing a couple of memories.  PE ran a construction article for a 1 mW
HeNe (using a prefab tube with attached mirrors) in late '69 or the early '70s.
Basically this was a project version of a Metrologic product.  And indeed,
people wrote in asking for a project for a much higher-power laser.

The ruby laser project you're thinking of was in Popular Science, 1964 or so.
It was basically a humongous photoflash circuit with the flashlamps surrounding
a small ruby rod, which could supposedly be ordered from Union Carbide's Linde
Division with pre-silvered ends. There was a set of additional construction
info that you could write away for. (I should still have the set I ordered...)

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet: [email] (JH645) Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh  CompuServe: 74140,2055


author: Mike Diack

subject: Re: CDRH Laser regulations

text:
The recent discussion of lasers has prompted a niggling question - why
are ion lasers and more specifically their plasma tubes so outrageously
expensive - is it a supply & demand situation (few manufacturers +
limited market = big pricetag) or are there intrinsically valuable
materials used in their construction or incredibly high precision
workmanship required ?? Anyone out there (Wes p'haps) know the answer to
that one ?? Anything on the horizon likely to replace this class of
laser (CW high power visible narrow divergence) in the near future ?
cheers
mike.


author: MALOUF, PERRY

subject: Re: CDRH Laser regulations

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Mike Diack) writes...

Although I'm no expert, I have taken apart a few broken ion lasers
and have observed several items that might contribute to high cost.
These items fall into the category of precision workmanship for the
most part (I'm referring to the plasma tube, for now).

First, the tube bore must be optically straight, over a length
of 1m or more for some tubes.  Second, they have to be able
to contain a rather nasty plasma (Ar and Kr ion) and dissipate
the heat to the cooling jacket without mechanical distortion.
This implies special materials which need special machining.
Third, the Brewster windows must be attached at a very precise
angle relative to the bore.  Also, I think these windows at each
end of the tube should not be rotated about the tube axis
with respect to one another, but I'm not sure on that one.  The
cathodes of these tubes are a complicated construction and
often include the capability to be water cooled separately.
I've seen older ones in glass tubes, and I marvel at the
design--a glassblower's nightmare.  Then you have the gas
reservoir with its incorporated valve.  This is a bulb
filled with extra gas (Ar, Kr, or whatever). When the rest
of the plasma tube needs more gas (after many hours
of operation have passed) then the incorporated valve allows
some to go from the reservoir to the plasma bore.  I don't know
the details, or how the need for gas is sensed.  There were lots
of other "bells and whistles" bristling from the tubes I've
seen, the functions of which I never figured out.

Yeah, they are expensive.  I'm not surprised, after seeing
all that goes into them.

					Perry Malouf
					Naval Research Lab


author: Anthony E. Siegman

subject: Re: CDRH Laser regulations

text:
Diode-laser-pumped solid-state lasers (e.g., Nd:YAG at 1.06
microns), doubled via optical second harmonic generation (SHG) into
the visible.  I haven't really kept track of current state of the art,
but I'd think you could buy or make something with 100 mW average in
the blue-green right now; 100 W average power in the IR is certainly
available in the lab, but doubling this to say 50 W of blue-green
requires SHG crystal development.

   In any event, enormous improvements over ion lasers in efficiency,
size, power supply and cooling requirements, and (eventually) cost
aren't just "on the horizon" but a virtually sure bet for the near
future.  Ion lasers still sold, probably will continue to be for a few
lab applications, but otherwise on their way out.


author: Robert Rose

subject: Fosamax And Bone Curvature Question, Please

text:
Hello:

I have recently been told that I have to take Fosamax because of low bone
density.

Because of an unrelated problem (a muscle contraction pulling my face), I
have to keep
my neck and upper back  in an unnatural, curved position to relieve the pull
so I can function.

Hopefully this condition is temporary (months, years,...).

When the Fosamax builds up the bone, will it build it up in this unnatural
position I have to hold now, so I will
no longer be able to stand straight when the other problem no longer exists?

Thanks,
A


author: Clyde

subject: Re: Fosamax And Bone Curvature Question, Please

text:
Yeah it happened to me, here is my photo:
http://www.prime-apes.org/images/new%20pics/pong%20desk.jpg
or
http://www.prime-apes.org/


author: TonyB

text:
Don't think so, you should hopefully be OK!

TonyB

"Robert Rose" <[email]> wrote in message
news:ahpnnc$63c$[email]...
pull
exists?


author: Steve Croson

text:
This is my first time here and I wanted to share some important information
with all of you that might apply here.
There is a product that has been developed that modulates autoimmune
responses, plus supports and maintains balance of the following:
         -Cardiovascular function
         -Healthy Cholesterol levels
         -Healthy Circulatory system
         -Digestivie tract health-Flexible and healthy joints
         -Energy levels

I'm not selling you, I'm sharing this information as not many of you are
aware that this research and developement has been going on.

If your having a health problem (be it osteo or whatever) it stems from your
immune systems inability to fight or ward off the problem.
This product will help your body's immune system get into balance so that
your immune system can do it's intended job and protect your body.

There are two sites that I know of :
             www.biochoice.net  describes the product
                         and
             www.hyperimmunegg.net  that has information on the clinical
trials to emphasize the validity of the product.

It is listed in the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR) for non-prescription
drugs and dietary supplements that all health care professionals use.

Thanks for your time, I hope this will help you all in your search for
better health.

If you need further information feel free to email me at [email]

To your health,

Steve Croson

"Robert Rose" <[email]> wrote in message
news:ahpnnc$63c$[email]...
pull
exists?


author: John

text:
which muscle group is giving you that problem? I have the left scapular
area in severe spasm most of the time and that causes some similar
problems but the use of various medicines helps a lot.

I especially like the lidoderm pads - they are external - near harmless
and work well. The main ingredient is licocaine, the same thing that
dentists use in your mouth - maybe they can help you as much as they
help me.

john

Robert Rose wrote:


author: Bergel Holub

text:
Clyde <[email]> wrote:

Yep.

The only known solution is the liberal application of large amounts of
Vit K2 to your nose.


author: Art S

subject: Re: [SPAM] Fosamax And Bone Curvature Question, Please

text:
"Steve Croson" <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...

Got it.  ALL of our health problems it is caused by problems with our
immune systems.  Guess we should all stop seeing our doctors, shouldn't we?

<Rest of SPAM snipped>

Art


author: Pearly the cat and Harry Andruschak

text:
Wrong, you are selling us and spamming us. Go away.

All E-mail to this screen name is blocked to thwart spammers. Reply to
[email]
(310) 835-9202
"Behold, I am a dry tree."


subject: req:  Info on Beckman planar plasma displays (SP-352)

text:
I recently acquired a number of Beckman "planar plasma displays," but
have not had much success finding sources of data sheets.  The
specific model number I have is SP-352.  I was able to get them to
work by a combination of trial and error and educated-guess methods,
(assuming around 150-200VDC and around 500uA-1mA/segment), but I'd
like to be able to check the actual manufacturer's specs before I try
designing them into anything.  Some dimensioned drawings, so I can lay
out a "footprint" into a PCB layout program, would be very helpful,
also.

The display is a 2-digit gas-filled cold-cathode display, in a
seven-segment format (with right-hand decimal points); the segments
glow bright-orange when energized.  The anodes (commons) are in the
form of a transparent conductive coating on the inside of the glass
face plate.  The digits are approx. 1/2" high, and the entire module
is a flat package approx. 1"w x 1 1/8"h x 3/16" thick.  The
connections for the cathodes (segments) and anodes for each digit are
all brought out seperately, so either direct-drive or multiplexed
driving can be accommodated.  I know this basic technology is (or at
least was) fairly common; I've seen them in many and varied
applications where their bright, highly visible display is an
advantage.

Any help on where to find data sheets for these displays would be very
much appreciated.


author: Jim

subject: Can magnetic resonance be optically detected in room temperature?

text:
I have great interest on optically detected magnetic resonance. It is
based on electron spin resonance technique, while detecting the change
of photon instead of microwave.


author: AES/newspost

subject: Re: Can magnetic resonance be optically detected in room temperature?

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Jim) wrote:

Would you be interested in the reverse process, i.e. detecting optical
absorption by its effect on a microwave (X band, 10 GHz) spin resonance
transition, at room temperature?


author: David A. Van Baak

text:
[email] (Jim) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

I'm not sure it's the sort of experiment you had in mind, but standard
optical pumping experiments seem to meet your criterion--magnetic
resonance induced by rf or microwave magnetic fields, but detected by
change in transmission of a sample for light.  And the technique
certainly works at normal temperatures--say 50 Celsius for rubidium
vapor, using 795 nm resonance line for polarizing and probing the
sample.  Signal to noise ratio rises as the sample gets denser, then
drops as it gets too opaque.

D. Van Baak


text:
AES/newspost <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...
I 'd like to try both since my system would be able to detect EPR
signal and optical signal both.

The question is, according to many literatures, since photon takes
much more energy than microwave, monitoring EPR by detecting light
absorption/scattering should be much more sensitive than monitoring
light absorption by detecting EPR signal. If true, what is the merit
of the latter?

Thank you!


text:
[email] (David A. Van Baak) wrote in message news:<[email]>...
Can I use solid instead of vapor in room temperature?

I suppose the use of vapor is because that the linewidth is not
significantly broadened by the solid lattices. However, I did see some
researchers succeeded to optically detect EPR of Ruby at tens of K.
Can I apply the same system to room temperature?
Thank you!


text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (Jim) wrote:

My interest in it was purely as a demonstration experiment, for teaching
purposes.  Make an X-band microwave cavity filled with ruby; sweep the
input microwave frequency across the ruby resonance and display the
X-band resonance on a scope; fire a ruby laser (or possibly a chopped UV
source) into the ruby; watch the X-band magnetic resonance change and
then recover.


text:
AES/newspost <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Got it. Thank you very much!


author: camargue

subject: de/FR

text:
Bonjour,

Comment traduire en franï¿½ais : "Einpressbolzen" et "Einstanzmutter" (travail
de la tï¿½le ? Merci

Cordialement
Camargue


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: de/FR

text:
camargue schrieb:

Hier gilt es wohl, einschlägige Internetseiten zur [Ein]Presstechnik,
[Ein]Stanztechnik und vielleicht [Ein]Niettechnik ausfindig zu machen.

Nach

<http://www.european-patent-office.org/correct/2000-2003/02_3pdfdocs/0814891b.pdf>

wäre (de - en - fr):

 Stanzbolzen - stamping pin - fileté estampé
 Stanzmutter - stamping nut - écrou estampé

Es lohnt sich bestimmt, weiterzusuchen.

Martin.


author: Erny

subject: Re: de/FR

text:
Bonjour,

D'aprï¿½s mon dictionnaire "Wï¿½rterbuch der industiellen Technik":

"Pressbolzen" = "boulon de serrage"

Cordialement,
Erny

<[email]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email]...

camargue schrieb:

Hier gilt es wohl, einschlï¿½gige Internetseiten zur [Ein]Presstechnik,
[Ein]Stanztechnik und vielleicht [Ein]Niettechnik ausfindig zu machen.

Nach

<http://www.european-patent-office.org/correct/2000-2003/02_3pdfdocs/0814891b.pdf>

wï¿½re (de - en - fr):

 Stanzbolzen - stamping pin - filetï¿½ estampï¿½
 Stanzmutter - stamping nut - ï¿½crou estampï¿½

Es lohnt sich bestimmt, weiterzusuchen.

Martin.


author: Amnon

subject: True Double feed (-48v)

text:
Hi,
I would like to supply my company communication box with two power
connectors that will allow the -48v feed of the box.
I intend to use two serial diodes in order to OR the two "hot" -48v traces
into one trace.

Should I use another set of diodes (in the reverse direction off course) to
OR the two  "neutral" -48v_Return traces as well , or can I short them both
on my PCB right after the connectors ?

A short will fit my needs better for several reasons but sometime ago I was
told that a standard (NEBS?) requires a "True double feed" which he
interperted as a set of diodes for the RETURN traces as well.

Can anyone tell me if he was correct, and if so to which standard he refer
to, or there is no problem to OR only the "hot" traces?

Any comment will be appreciated?

THX

Amnon


author: jan

subject: Re: True Double feed (-48v)

text:
"Amnon" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

////

Hi Amnon,

I see you didn't an answer to your problem either.
Looks like we have to find a smarter NG.  Let me know if you do.

Jan


subject: Re: True Double feed (-48v)

text:
Jan,
I am afraid I didn't fully understand your comment (NG ?)...
However, if you are intersted in this issue as well I have received from a
compliance lab the recommendation number in NEBS which describes the
suggested way to attend this issue , and they do recommend diodes on both
the -48V and the 48V_RTN.
In case you are intersted I can deliver this paper to you.
Amnon

"jan" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<[email]>...
traces
to
both
was
refer


author: Douglas Chinn

subject: KELVIN PROBE

text:
I am looking for an address of Besocke of Germany.  They manufacture
a machine called a Kelvin Probe. A domestic supplier of a Kelvin probe would
also be of interest.
Please contact me if you have any information. Dr. Douglas Chinn
[email]    801-581-4200 x-25


author: Melvin S. Schwartz

subject: Not getting a shot cause more trauma?

text:
I just had a temporary crown put on and my dentist asked if I wanted a
shot. He knows from past experience that I have done without it and like
perhaps he appreciates the time saved :)

My question is if doing without a shot and enduring the pain causes more
trauma to the tooth than if one had a shot and felt nothing? Is the nerve
somehow more effected by not having the shot?

Mel


subject: Re: Not getting a shot cause more trauma?

text:
On 2004-06-10 08:52:31 -0400, "Melvin S. Schwartz" <[email]> said:

i don't know about dentistry, but when apprenticing in a piercing
parlour, we noticed a lot less swelling when no lidocaine was used to
numb - i wonder why that was - by no means am i trying to answer the
question, merely piggy backing one onto it.

-joel - where's the smart ass answer :)


author: Le Huart

text:
No difference to the tooth, but the dentist may be. Anyone ever worked on a
vital tooth without local? Sort of ruins the whole day.


author: Paul

text:
No, you just feel it more.

"Melvin S. Schwartz" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.

text:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:11:45 GMT, h00ligan <[email]> wrote:

Lidocaine? In a piercing shop? Call in the FBI!


author: Orac

subject: Re: What causes Cancer?: My Answer

text:
In article <8296oo$9hq$[email]>, "John Gohde"
<[email]> wrote:

[drivel snipped]

Does that include you too, and, if not, what do you think are you doing
here?


author: boki

subject: Can we check resistance of mos transsitor directly?

text:
Dear All,

Can we check resistance of mos transsitor directly in spice?

Could you please tell me the command?

Thanks a lot.

Boki.


author: Kevin Aylward

subject: Re: Can we check resistance of mos transsitor directly?

text:
boki wrote:

Do you mean calculating V/I?

Kevin Aylward
[email]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.


author: Boki

text:
Sorry, no, I mean read mos transistor's resistance value directly, when mos
is working in linear region, for example: apply mos as a switch.

We can calculate mos resistance by:

R=1/[uCox(W/L)(Vgs-Vt)]

but, the real resistance value will change with other parameter, so, we
can't calculate it very accuracy,

if possible, I want to simulate it and get its resistance value directly,
could I?

Thank you very much.

Regards,
Boki.

"Kevin Aylward" <[email]> ï¿½bï¿½lï¿½ï¿½
news:Bs7lc.132$jA2.61@newsfe1-win ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½g...


subject: Osteo Health Site

text:
Dr. Donnica Moore has been the women's health expert at NBC's Later Today,
and has some great information about arthritis, osteporosis and other aging
health issues at her website.
Please let me know if you find the information useful, or how we could
provide further information.

Thanks,

Cindy Paiva
DrDonnica.com - First Name in Women's Health
www.drdonnica.com


author: Art S

subject: Re: Osteo Health Site

text:
"Peanuty1" <[email]> wrote in message news:BJXY5.1144$[email]...

Quick summary of the site (a lot is being left out):

You're female?  You might be at risk of Osteoporosis.  These
are the conditions that put you at risk....

Osteoporosis can be treated with the following medications...
(nothing on how the medications worked, pluses or minuses
of each, etc.)

The site has a ways to go before it is useful for someone who
has Osteoporosis.

Art


subject: Re: Osteo Health Site

text:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 06:15:52 GMT, "Art S"
<[email]> wrote:

Peanuty1, breast feeding for six months or more is NOT a risk for
osteoporosis later in life. I know you are just the designer for this
site but perhaps you could get someone to check their facts.  Some
would say that not being able to breast feed can be a sign that
something is systemically wrong and THIS might increase risk of
osteoporosis later on.

Some of the information about estrogen and cancer is rather mixed up
too.

I  may be nit picking but these sort of glaring errors do not say much
for the rest of the information on the site.
Kathryn
[email]


subject: Re: Osteo Health Site

text:
Thank you for your comments, and we do appreciate the insight.

Yes, I do the design and help produce, and we are need of such feedback.
I've passsed on the information to Dr. Donnica and hope to clarify this
information for our readers.  I'll post the response and resolution as soon
as it arrives.

Thanks so much for taking the time to review the information and provide
feedback.

Cindy Paiva
www.drdonnica.com

<[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...
news:BJXY5.1144$[email]...


subject: moon landings were a hoax

text:
NASA's rebuttal cancelled

In early November 2002 NASA announced that it was cancelling
publication of a manuscript by Jim Oberg that was intended to refute
the claims that the Moon landings were a hoax. NASA said that this
decision was based on the possibility of an outcry raised by people who
felt such a book would "legitimize" the claims of landing skeptics.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/FOOLED