author: Jonathan

text:
"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I don't think so. Robots will have answered all the important questions
decades before manned missions are even a gleam in a designers eye.
But I suppose a manned mission could clean up some lingering
questions, plug a few holes in the data decades after the robots have
rusted away. As if that would justify the cost.

And what about exploring far more hazardous places?
Or far more distant? As we continue exploring, manned missions
become less useful, and far more costly. Let's put men
on Venus, Europa or Titan, ya right. Even the most ideal site, Mars
can't be justified.

Below is from the Mars Science Laboratory page...launching in just
two short years. These instruments essentially place hundreds of
researchers on Mars, and for years. But even more importantly
these rovers place all of us there too.

Now, when will manned missions be returning any data from Mars?

APXS
"The Alpha Particle X-Ray Spectrometer will measure the abundance
of chemical elements in rocks and soils."...."Its sensor head is designed
to be smaller than a soda can..."

ChemMin
"Designed to be about the size of a laptop computer inside a carrying
case." ..."The Chemistry and Mineralogy instrument, or CheMin for
short, will identify and measure the abundances of various minerals
on Mars.' "To prepare rock samples for analysis, the rover will be
able to drill  into rocks, collect the resulting fine powder, sieve it, and
deliver it to a sample holder. It will use a scoop for collecting soil...."

ChemCam
"Looking at rocks and soils from a distance, ChemCam will fire a laser
and analyze the elemental composition of vaporized materials from areas
smaller than 1 millimeter on the surface of Martian rocks and soils."

"MAHLI will provide earthbound scientists with close-up views of the
minerals, textures, and structures in martian rocks and the surface layer
of rocky debris and dust. The self-focusing, roughly 4-centimeter-wide
(1.5-inch-wide) camera will take color images of features as small as
12.5 micrometers, smaller than the diameter of a human hair."

"The Mast Camera, or Mastcam for short, will take color images and
color video footage of the Martian terrain. One of the two Mastcam
camera systems has a moderate-resolution lens, similar to the
Pancam on the Mars Exploration Rovers. The other camera
system has a high-resolution lens in order to study the landscape
far from the rover."

RAD
"The Radiation Assessment Detector (RAD) will be one of the first
instruments sent to Mars specifically to prepare for future human
exploration. The size of a small toaster or six-pack of soda,..."

SAM
"The Sample Analysis at Mars instrument suite will take up more than half
the science payload on board the Mars Science Laboratory rover and
feature chemical equipment found in many scientific laboratories on Earth.
Provided by NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Sample Analysis at
Mars will search for compounds of the element carbon, including methane,
 that are associated with life and explore ways in which they are generated
and destroyed in the martian ecosphere."

DAN
"...the Mars Science Laboratory rover will carry a pulsing neutron generator
called the Dynamic Albedo of Neutrons that will be sensitive enough to
detect water content as low as one-tenth of 1 percent and resolve layers
of water and ice beneath the surface."

http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/mission/instruments/index.html


author: jonathan

subject: Re: Human vs. Robot Explorers!   An Easy Debate to Win!

text:
"Pat Flannery" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Oh is that why? Do you even have anecdotal evidence that is true
let alone any facts?

Speak for yourself.

All liberals do that?

And all conservatives too? My how uniform we all are.
Or how simple your opinions are.

Could you please translate that last sentence into English?
My gibberish dictionary is off-line.

Since you're killfiling me, I know you won't read any of this.
That allows me to practice flaming on you without hurting feelings.
I'm just practicing, so don't take it personally.

As long as you claim to be killfiling, I'll keep practicing....thanks!

Jonathan


author: Pat Flannery

text:
jonathan wrote:

The day that someone who believes that if you leave rocks alone long
enough they will become alive and immediately head toward some sort of
ideal intellectual and moral future...starts telling me that _I_ am
lacking on proof regarding my arguments...is the day that I realize that
squirrels have had a profound Zen insight since their first evolution,
and go to live with them and understand the insight of their enlightened
urges to run in front of oncoming cars.
You know, I thought I had you killfiled in all the newsgroups I
subscribe to, but just like the mythological behavior of my Hydra model
I repainted two days ago, I just keep whacking the damn annoying thing
on the heads to see them spring right back up again, and more eager to
bite than ever.

Pat


text:
"Pat Flannery" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Oh you can hear me?

Well then, would you believe space dust self organizing towards life?
Have you read any non rocket science in the last thirty years?
http://www.universetoday.com/2007/08/15/self-organizing-space-dust-could-be-a-precursor-to-life/

After the initial rover excitement and confusion wore off ....(sponge
gemmules).... I've been consistantly claiming they showed signs of
self organization. Which is my hobby. I claimed over and over that the
form, chemistry and distribution showed a level of order that simple
erosional processes couldn't account for. And constantly claiming that
underground hydrothermal systems (the ideal conditions for microbial life)
must be part of the process?

4 years later.....

"CHARACTERIZATION OF NAVAJO SANDSTONE CONCRETIONS:
MARS COMPARISONS (2009)

Results and Discussion: Navajo Sandstone concretions
have many similarities with Martian "blueberries""
"...distinct size populations; in situ self-organized
spacing and distributions within the host rock; and
conjoined forms. The strength of the similarities from detailed
characterizations all point to an origin of groundwater diagenesis
in a porous and permeable eolian sandstone."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2100.pdf

And I claimed many times that the understanding of microbial mediation
in how such spheres on Earth formed was poorly understood at the time.
Insisting microbial mediation in a underground hydrothermal systems
must be the more likely choice for this kind of concretion growth?
Over and over I said such things.

Note the dates of these papers.....

"OVERVIEW OF IRON OXIDE CONCRETIONS AND IMPLICATIONS
FOR MARS: CURRENT KNOWLEDGE AND GAPS.  (2009)

Terrestrial studies of concretions
have been strengthened from the NASA programs,
with the study of "blueberries" in the Burns formation
discovered by the Mars Exploration Rover (MER) Opportunity.
Scientific interest on iron oxide concretions
has increased from a point just a decade or two ago,
when concretions were viewed simply as geologic "curiosities"."
"The role of biomediation is still unclear, and while
it seems very likely that bacteria played a role in
terrestrial concretion formation, original organic
matter it is not well preserved and is currently difficult
to detect"
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2187.pdf

There wasn't anyone out there claiming the early photos
from either Spirit or Opportunity showed any signs of possible life.


author: Dan P. Dillon

subject: Re: PCBoard fabrication question

text:
YOu all should go to your electronics store or catalog and look up
press-n-peel pc board sheets.  They are a blue sheet that you feed into
your laser printer, and iron on to your board.  They work, and come
with instructions.  They are a buck or two per sheet.

Dan


author: Ehrhard, Jan

subject: Turbulence modelling

text:
I want to implement the k-tau turbulence model (Speziale) in our code.
In a first step I tried the model in conjunction with a log law
to compare the results with the k-eps model which is already
implemented in our code. Therefore I transformed the usual boundary
condition for dissipation at the first grid point adjacent to the wall
into
a boundary condition for dissipation time. Unfortunately the results
of the two models don't match. I think that a problem might be the
numerical treatment of the products of the derivatives of k and tau
at solid walls, i.e. at the first grid point adjacent to the
wall since a log law approach is employed.

Therefore I am looking for someone who has experience with this kind
of two-equation turbulence models and who might be able to give some
advice.

Any information is highly appreciated !

Regards,

Jan


author: Robert Davis

subject: Cleaning Question

text:
Have been running a vacuum chamber with heater.  Over time the glass view
port has darkened and I will try to clean the view port the next time I
bring the system down.  I think the cause is a carbon type film.  It could
be contaminated with tungsten, moly, titanium and maybe tantalum.  I suspect
the carbon comes from samples or even an organic binder remaining in some of
the powders.  The view port is quartz, 8" diameter.

Any comments or suggestions?
Thank you for your help....Rob Davis


author: William Kaukler

subject: Re: Cleaning Question

text:
If the vacuum chamber is pumped with oil either as a roughing pump or
diffusion pump, when used without a trap or an improperly working one, the
oil could be source for contamination.  Dirty specimen materials and poor
chamber cleanliness are other sources for such problems. Since the viewport
is so large, the chamber is also likely very large and prone to problems
when attempting to evaporate before the pumpdown cycle is done and all
outgasssing finished due to impatience.  An undersized turbo or dif pump can
also be to blame.  The heater temperature and power relative to the chamber
volume are also important to the answer of the question but not provided.
Indeed too little information is provided to easily answer the question.

Dr. K

"Robert Davis" <[email]> wrote in message
news:96kn1g$jn5$[email]...
suspect
of


author: jim quinn

subject: Re: Cleaning Question

text:
Rob -

If the film is organic, then it will come off easily.
If it is from W, Mo, Ti, or Ta, then it already
likely to be oxidized.  Hence, it will be more
difficult to remove.

If the window has a flange, then we use alumina
polishing powder and water.  However, keep the
particle size small ( < 1 micron), otherwise
you will make subsequent films adhere better.

If the window is straight glass, then you can
etch off the films.

Make sure you clean and rinse well before remounting.

On the other hand, some folks precoat the windows
with a clear and low vapour-pressure film.  This
film is usually disolved off with acetone along
with the obscuring over-deposition.  However, I
don't think this is good if you have a HV or UHV
system.

Jim

In article <96kn1g$jn5$[email]>, "Robert Davis" <[email]> writes:


author: Matt Carey

subject: Re: Cleaning Question

text:
Hello,

I don't know about the possibility of Carbon contamination.  Likely
as anything, you just have metal or metal/oxide films on the surface.
It is hard to tell without knowing more.

I often clean viewports with HCl.  Then again, I usually have
transition metals on the ports.  The trick is to clean the glass
without doing any harm to the stainless steel.  Sometimes, I have
found that a kimwipe wetted with HCl will do the trick, if I just
wipe the viewport (then clean it carefully afterwards).

If you don't have room (or money) for a shutter for the port,
try to find a second glass to put in front of the quartz in the
future.  Sometimes petri dishes are just the right size (for
smaller ports).  When they get coated, throw them away.

Good luck,

Matt

Robert Davis wrote:


subject: Re: Cleaning Question

text:
If you just want to know how to clean the window, use a dry towel, then if
that won't 'cut' it, then add toluene or other good solvent and repeat, if
that won't 'cut' it, remove the window if possible to dilute-acid etch the
metal coating. (Usually the coating is aluminum and caustic would work
instead except that it can etch the glass or quartz.) The acid may etch the
glass so avoid chromic and hydrofluoric.  I wouldn't use an abrasive until
the last resort because a large port such as this will be sensitive to
scratches, unlike a smaller 2 inch port that is definitely overengineered
regarding pressure resistance.  If indeed the deposits are oxides, the
metals you use make very hard oxides and may scratch the soft quartz once
broken loose from vigorous rubbing.  So, abrasion with polishing compound
should be the last resort.  There is no simple formula to clean the mixture
you offer so trial and error with some combination of solvents and acids
(separately in sequence) is in order.  Such a large port implies an
expensive system and maybe with luck, someone protected the quartz with an
easy to clean coating before putting it in service.

Dr. K

"William Kaukler" <[email]> wrote in message
news:7Qoj6.291824$[email]...
viewport
can
chamber
view
could
some


author: Peter N Koniarov

subject: Halting problem consicuence

text:
I am trying to proof an obvious Halting problem consicuence in a
formal way:

If there is no way to determine whether a Turing machine stops
(Halting problem) at all, there is no way to determine whether a
Turing machine stops in n steps in less than n steps.

Please help, if you can. Any idea is welcome.
Thanks in advance.


author: Robert Israel

subject: Re: Halting problem consicuence

text:
In article <[email]>,
Peter N Koniarov <[email]> wrote:

This is false for a trivial reason, in the case n=1.
There is no way to determine anything in less than 1 step!

Just slightly less trivial:
Let's say our Turing machine uses a tape that can have symbols 0,
1 and blank; the input is a sequence of 0's and 1's terminated with
a blank.  Consider a Turing machine that just examines its input,
one character at a time, halts when it sees the blank but goes into
an infinite loop if it sees a 1.  If the input is n-1 0's and a blank
it halts after n steps.  But any method of determining whether a Turing
machine halts in n steps will have to examine each character of the input
plus the Turing machine itself, and will therefore take more than n steps.

(I'm assuming of course that the machine used for determining is the
same type as the Turing machines being determined)

To get a nontrivial result, I think you'll want a formulation something
like this:  there do not exist a Turing machine D and constant N
such that, given any Turing machine T which (including its input) has
size S and any n > S + N, D will determine in less than n steps
whether T will halt in at most n steps.

Robert Israel                                [email]
Department of Mathematics        http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z2


author: Dale R Worley

subject: Re: Halting problem consicuence

text:
[email] (Peter N Koniarov) writes:

This problem is not well defined.  There are various different formal
computation systems.  The set of computable functions within each
system is the same.  But each system has a very different measure of
how quickly it performs computations.  In some cases, two systems
calculate a function in times that are linearly related, but in some
cases, systems differ by a polynomial relationship.  (That is why the
class of functions computable in polynomial time is interesting, it
appears that that class is independent of the computation system
chosen.)

To make this problem well defined, you need to specify exactly what
system you are using to "determine whether a Turing machine stops in n
steps".  There are also some generalized theories of "how long does
this algorithm take".

Dale


subject: Re: Halting problem consequence

text:
[email] (Robert Israel) wrote in message news:<as375d$rsl$[email]>...

I agree with you this proofs the case when the input is >=n , but if
machine's input is m < n than it can only proof that there is no way
to determine whether Machine stops in less than m (not n) steps.

I agree that my formulation is far less precise than that one.
However the problem remains.

Peter Koniarov


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Halting problem consequence

text:
In article <[email]>,
Peter N Koniarov <[email]> wrote:

I believe that it's easy to show that the problem of determining,
given a machine M, an input x, and an integer n (in binary), whether
M halts on x in at most n steps is EXPTIME-complete.  So in particular
it cannot be solved in a number of steps that is polynomial in log n,
by the time hierarchy theorem.  This isn't as sharp a result as Peter
Koniarov requested, but I suspect that to get anything that precise
one needs to pay attention to all kinds of picky details---how the
Turing machine M is encoded, how many tapes are used, etc.  Otherwise
it may be easy to "cheat" by doing a tiny bit of "computation" in the
process of encoding the input, saving you one step.

I also don't believe that such a result "follows" from the undecidability
of the halting problem in any useful sense.  It would be very interesting
if one could prove some kind of general theorem that says that intractable
problems become undecidable "as n goes to infinity" while tractable problems
become decidable.  Michael Freedman has some interesting speculations in
this direction ("Limit, logic, and computation," Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci.
USA 95 (1998), no. 1, 95-97), but I don't think anyone has gotten very far
with this idea.


subject: Re: Halting problem consequence

text:
In article <[email]>,
Peter N Koniarov <[email]> wrote:

Just to clarify:

The question can be stated as follows.  Given positive integer n,
is there a Turing machine D that, for any Turing machine T (represented in
some standard manner) together with its input X, will take less than n
steps to determine whether T halts in at most n steps on input X.

My counterexample was a certain Turing machine T with an input X of length
n.  T takes n steps to examine its input and (if the input is all 0's
followed by a blank) halt.  To determine whether T halts on input X, D
must examine X as well, and this will take at least n steps.  So the
answer to the question as stated above is no.

By your remark about m < n, it seems that you want to restrict the size
of T and X.  That changes the question, in pretty much the same direction
as what I said:

Robert Israel                                [email]
Department of Mathematics        http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z2


author: zirkus

subject: M. Freedman: "limits" in computation and geometry

text:
[email] wrote in message news:<as53k0$jk9$[email]>...

Earlier, In the magazine Science (vol.275, page 1570, March 14, 1997)
there is a brief write-up by B. Citra describing a suggestion from
Freedman for approaching a proof that hard problems are, indeed, hard.
First, think loosely of the idea of a "limit" as the residue of an
infinite process. Then, Freedman wanted to "extend the concept of
computation to include infinitely large problems, each one a limit of
increasingly large, finite instances of the problem. The trick is to
define the extension so that a particular criterion holds: Whenever
the original computational problem has a polynomial time algorithm,
each infinite example has a solution. The hope, then, is that for
problems like the Traveling Salesman Problem [which is NP complete],
there will be infinitely large examples without solution." Freedman
then wanted to find out how to mathematically define the notion of
"limit" for this case.

When this piece in Science first appeared, I tried to think about the
"cardinality" and "ordinality" of Freedman's proposed sequence of
increasingly large, finite instances of a problem, wondering if
topology could be used to help define the convergence and limit of
this sequence. At the time, I emailed Freedman these possible
suggestions (but I didn't come up with anything concrete, but
Freedman's above PNAS paper at least introduces the idea of
"ultrafilter limits" which may be a step forward):

1) Each different computational problem should have a unique infinite
example of itself, i.e., each computational problem should have a
unique limit. Perhaps this is somehow analogous to the statement that
if a sequence of numbers has a limit, it is unique, or, more
generally, that the space X is Hausdorff (e.g., a metric space) if and
only if each filter in X has at most one limit.

2) The symbols +infinity & -infinity can be added to the set R of all
real numbers which then creates the topological space R' and R' is the
set of extended real numbers. Infinity can exist within a topological
space and, likewise, one might want both the infinite and finite
instances of a computational problem to exist in the same "space". (A
sequence which diverges to infinity within a number system (e.g. R)
can be mapped into a topological space as a family of points called a
net or a Moore-Smith sequence, and this net can converge to infinity).

3) The notion of "convergence" can be extended to the case of
generalized sequences where the index moves over a directed set, and
the terms are in topological space. The convergence of nets and that
of filters can be defined in a topological space X, and, conversely,
this convergence can define a toplogy of X.

4)  A point at infinity, i.e. an ideal element, can be added to a
topological space via Alexandrov's theorem, e.g. one
point-compactification. This procedure makes infinity real within the
topological space as a limit point, a point which must share at least
one property in common with the points of the net.

5)  Freedman also suggested that the concept of "limits" might be
useful for some unsolved problems in geometry. Non-commutative
geometry includes concepts of limits and one might look e.g. at
possibly (non-trivial) classical limits of non-classical (e.g.
bicovariant) calculi on a topological space.

Perhaps one of you can think of something relevant.


subject: Re: M. Freedman: "limits" in computation and geometry

text:
In article <[email]>,
zirkus <[email]> wrote:

I can't say I'm an expert on this topic, but it seems to me that the
main stumbling block is this first step.  It's not at all clear what the
"infinite version" of most common decision problems should be.  Without
examples, it seems rather premature to develop a general theory with
fancy topological ideas and limits and such.

Freedman has provided one example, in his paper "k-SAT on groups and
undecidability."  But one has to be pretty optimistic to hope that
this one example will generalize.

Incidentally, there is one very old analogy that has a little bit of
the flavor of Freedman's conjectural finite/infinite analogy, namely
the analogy between the polynomial hierarchy and the arithmetical
hierarchy.  This analogy has yielded some fruit; buzzwords include
"descriptive complexity" and "bounded arithmetic."  If someone could
see how to bring topology to bear in a nontrivial way on this analogy,
that might be a big breakthrough.  It's not completely insane to think
that this might work, since some of the arguments people have used
are reminiscent of forcing, which has a topological interpretation.
(See Krajicek's book _Bounded_Arithmetic,_Propositional_Logic,_and_
_Complexity_Theory_.)  But I gather it's all very speculative so far.


author: Ir. Hanafi Ali

subject: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
Is the Garmin Mapsource Topo Map for Kansas accurate? Need to measure some
flat plains, :).


author: Pablo

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
In general, Kansas tends to be...well, flat.

So you're gonna have to specify how accurate you want, because I'd assume
that if you're measuring (in your own words) flat plains, then we'd be
assuming very minor topographical differences...

Paul

Ir. Hanafi Ali <[email]> wrote in message
news:bb2k1r$g20$[email]...


author: Rob

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
"Ir. Hanafi Ali" <[email]> wrote in message news:<bb2k1r$g20$[email]>...

Accurate means one thing to one pseron and something else to another.
You need to specify what accuracy you want - e.g. what exactly are you
measuring on these flat plains?  Consider that the source of Mapsource
Topo is 1:100,000 USGS data (i.e. data appropriate for use at
1:100,000 scale).  The fact that you can digitally zoom in and out may
influence the perception of accuracy.  You should be able to look up
USGS accuracy specs for the 100,000K topo products on the USGS web
site.

If you are looking for a preview of the coverage, Garmin's cartography
page has a previewer available (needs a little patience to find your
area of interest).


author: Ken Ashe

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
On Wed, 28 May 2003 23:19:19 +0800, "Ir. Hanafi Ali"
<[email]> wrote:

	Sorry, can't resist -- didn't Dorothy use a Toto map of
Kansas?


author: Darrel Goheen

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
Just for the record I've seen very few flat places in Kansas and I've
lived here for almost 43 years.


author: Paul Nutt

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
I agree with Darrel. Anyone who thinks Kansas is flat should ride their bike
across it in the yearly BAK (Bike Across Kansas) ride. :)

"Darrel Goheen" <[email]> wrote in message
news:bbh84j$b14$0@206.126.64.40...
assume


author: Dale DePriest

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
Darrel Goheen wrote:

Flat is a relative term.  If a standard billiard ball were as big as the
earth it would have mountains on it higher than any we have on earth.  I
grew up in Kansas for the first 20 years of my life and thought is was
pretty hilly but I now live in the Sierras of California and Kansas
doesn't seem so hilly any more. East Kansas has some signficant hills
but west Kansas is pretty flat.

Dale


author: steve

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 07:04:24 -0700, "Paul Nutt" <[email]>
wrote:

Anyone who thinks that Kansas ISN'T flat should ride their bike in the
yearly RAMROD (Ride Around Mount Rainier in One Day) ride.  :)

Trust me, compared to anywhere with actual mountains, Kansas is FLAT.

Steve


author: Fred

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
Well, I trained for it a number of years ago but without support that
year, we were sleeted out - in July (for the outsiders!)  That year it
was _RAIN_ around Mt Rainier in One day.

But a few years back, did RAW (at that time Ride Across Washington)
and now Ride Around Washington.  Now that's a cross state ride -
across Highway 20, the North Cascades Highway - 5 MOUNTAIN passes for
about 20,000 feet over 400 miles.

On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 08:56:48 GMT, steve <[email]> wrote:


subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
I would guess that the paper upon which a map of Kanses is printed would be
a good 3d topo map.

Hoowaa!

Paul

steve <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
bike


author: Mike Fields

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
Yeah !!  RAMROD is something like 10,000 feet of elevation
gain, 150 miles or so.  One of the guys I work with had an
average speed last time of 19+ mph -- no one else is even
close unless they are on a motorcycle.


author: Pieter Litchfield

subject: Re: Topo Map for Kansas

text:
It's OK guys - I rode RAGBRAI across IA 11 times.  I probably heard a
million non-riders say "Oh - shouldn't be too difficult, Iowa's flat."
Maybe Kansas is, but not Iowa......

"Fred" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
bike


author: MARK DORAN

subject: brussels sprouts: the enigma....

text:
I'm a bit worried about my general health these days, and therefore paying
more attention to what I eat. Four times in the last few weeks I've eaten
brussels sprouts; and four times I've had diarrhoea the next day. Is there
something in sprouts that's poisonous, or that people can get allergic to?
(these were frozen sprouts; different brands from different supermarkets). I
don;t seem to be allergic to anything else...

All suggestions gratefully received...

Mark D.


author: Jean P Nance

subject: Re: brussels sprouts: the enigma....

text:
In some people, any vegetables of the cabbage family may cause gas,
which can cause diorrhea. You don't have to eat any vegetables in that
family to have a good diet. Forget Brussels sprouts. Try cabbage,
collards, bok  choy, etc. in small amounts. If they cause trouble, forget
about them too. It don't think it is an actual allergy, just a
peculiarity of your digestive system. If you feel you have to eat these
foods, start with a teaspoon or so, and increase slowly. You may be able
to "educate" your system to tolerate them by doing that.


author: John 'De Man'

subject: Re: brussels sprouts: the enigma....

text:
"Jean P Nance" <[email]> wrote in message
news:JvN_5.437$1a.107@firefly...

Yes, eating a healthy diet has been know to lead to all sorts of complaints
from nutrition basket cases, such as gas, and diarrhea.

It is really a tradegy, ... ain't it?

Nor, do you have to live a long life, either.

The cabbage family of food is one of three plant families REQUIRED for good
health.

http://food.naturalhealthperspective.com/dietguidelines.html
"Eat, each week, food from the plant families of the Brassica or Cruciferous
vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, kale, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower),
Carotene rich fruits and vegetables (tomatoes, carrots, dried apricots &
peaches, kale, spinach, pumpkin), and Allium vegetables (onion, garlic,
leek, chive). Published research documents valuable health benefits for
these plant foods."

I am just "De Man" on his never ending quest to stamp out nutrition
misinformation on smn.


author: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

subject: Re: Perfection in Spirit

text:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

We faced the possibility of a global catastrophe.

A deep and strong magnitude 6 earthquake happened the night of 03/28/06
at about 255 miles below the vicinity of Tokyo **before** the total
solar eclipse of 03/29/06. Now imagine how many lives would have been
lost if GOD had not had the infinite mercy of placing this great
earthquake so deep.  Interestingly, on the day of the eclipse, the U.N.
Security Council issued a 30-day ultimatum for Iran to stop enriching
uranium.  It is now possible that a nuclear holocaust might happen in
less than 30 days fulfilling the remaining elements of Revelation 6.

It is also of interest that on Passover day (4/13/06) there will be a
full moon.  If this moon is blood red in color, it would be fulfillment
of the next element associated with the Lamb's opening of the 6th seal
as described right **before** the 13th verse of Revelation 6.

Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes).

Please do.

Please do.

No.  Such are the limitations of advisories which can become extended
as this one now is.

"Prepare the way for the LORD, make straight paths for HIM." (Matthew
3:3 and Isaiah 40:3)

"Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the
rough ground shall become level, and the rugged places a plain."
(Isaiah 40:4)

Dear Friend,

Through many days of prayer seeking the LORD's guidance on how to
effectively call out as one of HIS lowly watchmen regarding the
catastrophic event (Revelation 6:14) that may possibly happen sometime
between now and the end of the year, the above verses which are from
both the OT and the NT came to mind.

This electronic message will be a feeble solitary voice calling out
into the desert that is the Internet ever hopeful that it will be heard
by all so that "the glory of the LORD will be revealed." (Isaiah 40:5)
Please help by conveying this message to everyone you know.  It will be
my fervent prayer, in Jesus' most precious and holy name, that all who
understand the essence of this message will be protected from all harm
in this time that may possibly be leading to "the great tribulation"
referenced in the 14th verse of Revelation 7.  Please join me in our
collectively praying for GOD's protection, HIS continued mercy and HIS
infinite grace for all those who are blessed by an understanding of
this message.

At 10:33 PM (Tokyo time) on 03/28/06, there was a strong and deep
magnitude 6 earthquake that impacted Tokyo:

http://tinyurl.com/oqrlz

Then on 03/29/06, an unusual total solar eclipse happened in Turkey at
2:00 PM (LT) that darkened the skies of the ancient cities where the 7
Churches of Christ reside in the same order as given **twice** in
Revelation (1:11 and then chapters 2 through 3).  A parallel solar
eclipse apparently happened on this same day (March 29th) in 70AD,
which is the year that Jerusalem was destroyed. This total solar
eclipse could very well be the same eclipse that was seen by John in
the prophetic vision given to him by LORD Jesus Christ as described in
the 12th verse of Revelation 6. A "great earthquake" did precede the
solar eclipse visualized by John as described in Revelation 6:12. And
now we face a possible nuclear showdown with Iran that may result in
the fulfillment of the rest of the elements seen by John for the
opening of the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-17):

http://tinyurl.com/eb6xl

For more details including a link that has descriptions of recent
observed events that may possibly represent the elements in Revelation
6 that precede the catastrophic event heralded by the 14th verse,
please visit the following online article:

http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/SolarEclipse

You are invited to sign up for being notified about the next on-line
HeartMDPhD.com chat to ask questions and confirm the authenticity of
this message and its author:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/chat.asp

In the continued interest of making this message "on-topic" for the
USENET newsgroups ACC, SMC, AA, and RFC that are its initial
recipients, would be glad to also chat about LORD Jesus Christ,
cardiology, atheism, and/or cooking food.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew


author: Mark K. Bilbo

subject: Re: Perfection in Spirit

text:
Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD in episode
<[email]>...

Except nothing happened.

A "great" earthquake is in the 8+ range.


subject: Re: Perfection in Spirit

text:
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:

It seems a great earthquake did happen but the LORD through HIS infinite
mercy kept it from injuring anyone.

Not if you are at the epicenter as possible John was within his
prophetic vision.

"Prepare the way for the LORD, make straight paths for HIM." (Matthew
3:3 and Isaiah 40:3)

"Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the
rough ground shall become level, and the rugged places a plain." (Isaiah
40:4)

Dear Friend,

Through many days of prayer seeking the LORD's guidance on how to
effectively call out as one of HIS lowly watchmen regarding the
catastrophic event (Revelation 6:14) that may possibly happen sometime
between now and the end of the year, the above verses which are from
both the OT and the NT came to mind.

This electronic message will be a feeble solitary voice calling out into
the desert that is the Internet ever hopeful that it will be heard by
all so that "the glory of the LORD will be revealed." (Isaiah 40:5)
Please help by conveying this message to everyone you know.  It will be
my fervent prayer, in Jesus' most precious and holy name, that all who
understand the essence of this message will be protected from all harm
in this time that may possibly be leading to "the great tribulation"
referenced in the 14th verse of Revelation 7.  Please join me in our
collectively praying for GOD's protection, HIS continued mercy and HIS
infinite grace for all those who are blessed by an understanding of this
message.

At 10:33 PM (Tokyo time) on 03/28/06, there was a strong and deep
magnitude 6 earthquake that impacted Tokyo:

http://tinyurl.com/oqrlz

Then on 03/29/06, an unusual total solar eclipse happened in Turkey at
2:00 PM (LT) that darkened the skies of the ancient cities where the 7
Churches of Christ reside in the same order as given **twice** in
Revelation (1:11 and then chapters 2 through 3).  A parallel solar
eclipse apparently happened on this same day (March 29th) in 70AD, which
is the year that Jerusalem was destroyed. This total solar eclipse could
very well be the same eclipse that was seen by John in the prophetic
vision given to him by LORD Jesus Christ as described in the 12th verse
of Revelation 6. A "great earthquake" did precede the solar eclipse
visualized by John as described in Revelation 6:12. And now we face a
possible nuclear showdown with Iran that may result in the fulfillment
of the rest of the elements seen by John for the opening of the 6th seal
(Revelation 6:12-17):

http://tinyurl.com/eb6xl

For more details including a link that has descriptions of recent
observed events that may possibly represent the elements in Revelation 6
that precede the catastrophic event heralded by the 14th verse, please
visit the following online article:

http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/SolarEclipse

You are invited to sign up for being notified about the next on-line
HeartMDPhD.com chat to ask questions and confirm the authenticity of
this message and its author:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/chat.asp

In the continued interest of making this message "on-topic" for the
USENET newsgroups ACC, SMC, AA, and RFC that are its initial recipients,
would be glad to also chat about LORD Jesus Christ, cardiology, atheism,
and/or cooking food.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew


subject: Re: Perfection in Spirit

text:
Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD in episode
<[email]>...

A quake happened in Japan. Quelle surprise! That's never happened before
has it?

And, boy, that one was sure a "great" earthquake compared to the 6.9 in
1995 that totally leveled Kobe and killed 5500 people. I mean this one,
with no deaths and no damage was far, far more traumatic huh?

Yes even if you're at the epicenter, an 8+ (or at least a 7+) is
considered a "great" quake and a 6 is more a "shit, some dishes fell off
the counter" quake.

Hate to tell you this you loon but in areas that are used to and prepared
for quakes, anything up to the low 6s is, at best, enough to shake up your
nerves really good and maybe knock a picture off a wall but that's about
it.

You want to see a "great" quake, you wait for the New Madrid to go off.
The severe damage will span seven states. Memphis and St. Louis will
probably cease to exist. Chicago will take major damage. The shaking will
be felt from Wisconsin to Louisiana, from Kansas to the East Coast. Last
time it went off, rivers flowed backward, some jumped their banks, forests
were leveled, and bells rung on their own as far away as DC.

Now, *that is a "great" quake...


subject: Re: Perfection in Spirit

text:
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:

This particular earthquake has not happened before.

In the 12th verse of Revelation 6, John seems to calling it like he
experienced it rather than doing any comparisions using seismograph
data.

Iran recently experienced a magnitude 6 quake that has caused a great
deal of devastation.

If you were secure in the truth, you would have had the strength to
resist the temptaion of descending into namecalling.

If the possibility of a blood red full moon on Passover (4/13/06) is
realized through the LORD's infinite will, all elements would in place
for a possible globally catastrophic event described by the 14th verse
of Revelation 6 that would dwarf New Madrid.

"Prepare the way for the LORD, make straight paths for HIM." (Matthew
3:3 and Isaiah 40:3)

"Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the
rough ground shall become level, and the rugged places a plain." (Isaiah
40:4)

Dear Friend,

Through many days of prayer seeking the LORD's guidance on how to
effectively call out as one of HIS lowly watchmen regarding the
catastrophic event (Revelation 6:14) that may possibly happen sometime
between now and the end of the year, the above verses which are from
both the OT and the NT came to mind.

This electronic message will be a feeble solitary voice calling out into
the desert that is the Internet ever hopeful that it will be heard by
all so that "the glory of the LORD will be revealed." (Isaiah 40:5)
Please help by conveying this message to everyone you know.  It will be
my fervent prayer, in Jesus' most precious and holy name, that all who
understand the essence of this message will be protected from all harm
in this time that may possibly be leading to "the great tribulation"
referenced in the 14th verse of Revelation 7.  Please join me in our
collectively praying for GOD's protection, HIS continued mercy and HIS
infinite grace for all those who are blessed by an understanding of this
message.

At 10:33 PM (Tokyo time) on 03/28/06, there was a strong and deep
magnitude 6 earthquake that impacted Tokyo:

http://tinyurl.com/oqrlz

Then on 03/29/06, an unusual total solar eclipse happened in Turkey at
2:00 PM (LT) that darkened the skies of the ancient cities where the 7
Churches of Christ reside in the same order as given **twice** in
Revelation (1:11 and then chapters 2 through 3).  A parallel solar
eclipse apparently happened on this same day (March 29th) in 70AD, which
is the year that Jerusalem was destroyed. This total solar eclipse could
very well be the same eclipse that was seen by John in the prophetic
vision given to him by LORD Jesus Christ as described in the 12th verse
of Revelation 6. A "great earthquake" did precede the solar eclipse
visualized by John as described in Revelation 6:12. And now we face a
possible nuclear showdown with Iran that may result in the fulfillment
of the rest of the elements seen by John for the opening of the 6th seal
(Revelation 6:12-17):

http://tinyurl.com/eb6xl

For more details including a link that has descriptions of recent
observed events that may possibly represent the elements in Revelation 6
that precede the catastrophic event heralded by the 14th verse, please
visit the following online article:

http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/SolarEclipse

You are invited to sign up for being notified about the next on-line
HeartMDPhD.com chat to ask questions and confirm the authenticity of
this message and its author:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/chat.asp

In the continued interest of making this message "on-topic" for the
USENET newsgroups ACC, SMC, AA, and RFC that are its initial recipients,
would be glad to also chat about LORD Jesus Christ, cardiology, atheism,
and/or cooking food.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew


subject: Re: Perfection in Spirit

text:
Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD in episode
<[email]>...

Okay, *that's funny. That's true of *every quake.

Heh, yeah. That explains why you said "global" but now are trying to claim
some minor quake in an area that has quakes all the time is somehow bigger
than it was.

We still don't call a 6 a "great" quake. And, yes, poorer areas of the
world that can't afford building codes tend to see serious damage even
from moderate quakes.

Notice Japan is not one of the above.

Translation: "I'm a loon!"

That's what you predicted last time...


subject: Prepare the way for the LORD...

text:
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
<[email]>...
<[email]>...

Correct.

A magnitude 6 earthquake is not minor.  The description "great
earthquake" given by John in Revelation 6:12 left open many
possibilities.  It remains possible that the deep and strong magnitude 6
Tokyo earthquake is the same one the John experienced in his prophetic
vision prior to the solar eclipse.  It takes more energy to shake things
up to that magnitude more than 255 miles deep below the surface than at
the surface.

Iran is a country rich from oil and very experienced with earthquakes.

The damage to Tokyo had the magnitude 6 earthquake been at the surface
would have been extensive despite the city's wealth.

No.  That which is written plainly requires no translation and still
describes your relationship with the truth.

Recognizing a possibility is not prediction. What you are reading is now
an extended advisory and has never been prophecy. Please be advised that
the possibility of a globally catastrophic event now looms larger:

http://tinyurl.com/o4m2x

"Prepare the way for the LORD, make straight paths for HIM." (Matthew
3:3 and Isaiah 40:3)

"Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the
rough ground shall become level, and the rugged places a plain." (Isaiah
40:4)

Dear Friend,

Through many days of prayer seeking the LORD's guidance on how to
effectively call out as one of HIS lowly watchmen regarding the
catastrophic event (Revelation 6:14) that may possibly happen sometime
between now and the end of the year, the above verses which are from
both the OT and the NT came to mind.

This electronic message will be a feeble solitary voice calling out into
the desert that is the Internet ever hopeful that it will be heard by
all so that "the glory of the LORD will be revealed." (Isaiah 40:5)
Please help by conveying this message to everyone you know.  It will be
my fervent prayer, in Jesus' most precious and holy name, that all who
understand the essence of this message will be protected from all harm
in this time that may possibly be leading to "the great tribulation"
referenced in the 14th verse of Revelation 7.  Please join me in our
collectively praying for GOD's protection, HIS continued mercy and HIS
infinite grace for all those who are blessed by an understanding of this
message.

At 10:33 PM (Tokyo time) on 03/28/06, there was a strong and deep
magnitude 6 earthquake that impacted Tokyo:

http://tinyurl.com/oqrlz

Then on 03/29/06, an unusual total solar eclipse happened in Turkey at
2:00 PM (LT) that darkened the skies of the ancient cities where the 7
Churches of Christ reside in the same order as given **twice** in
Revelation (1:11 and then chapters 2 through 3).  A parallel solar
eclipse apparently happened on this same day (March 29th) in 70AD, which
is the year that Jerusalem was destroyed. This total solar eclipse could
very well be the same eclipse that was seen by John in the prophetic
vision given to him by LORD Jesus Christ as described in the 12th verse
of Revelation 6. A "great earthquake" did precede the solar eclipse
visualized by John as described in Revelation 6:12. And now we face a
possible nuclear showdown with Iran that may result in the fulfillment
of the rest of the elements seen by John for the opening of the 6th seal
(Revelation 6:12-17):

http://tinyurl.com/eb6xl

For more details including a link that has descriptions of recent
observed events that may possibly represent the elements in Revelation 6
that precede the catastrophic event heralded by the 14th verse, please
visit the following online article:

http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/SolarEclipse

You are invited to sign up for being notified about the next on-line
HeartMDPhD.com chat to ask questions and confirm the authenticity of
this message and its author:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/chat.asp

In the continued interest of making this message "on-topic" for the
USENET newsgroups ACC, SMC, AA, and RFC that are its initial recipients,
would be glad to also chat about LORD Jesus Christ, cardiology, atheism,
and/or cooking food.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew


author: Achim Recktenwald, PhD

subject: Re: Nobel prize rubbish

text:
Dettol wrote:

[snip]

[snip]

I think this argument also cuts the other way.
Let's assume somebody is convinced he/she got a very good idea, or is
close to a discovery, and her/his grant is running out, the
3-years-contract nears its end; alternatively, she/he got the message
from sombody superior that if the rate of results/output = papers
doesn't increase, soon, he/she better look for a new job.
If you are working in basic research it is normal to have long
time-spans, where seemingly nothing works.
The pressure will be very high to produce 'something', if not 'anything'
to be able to keep going.

The cases of fraud uncovered I have read about are mostly connected to
this kind of situation.

Achim


author: Rick

subject: Titan Geology

text:
I know this discussion is better placed in an astronomy group,
but I was wondering if any of you had some thoughts on the
images coming back now from Titan, e.g.

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA06405

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA06407

etc.

Do the hydrocarbon deposits look like liquid, or ice, or sludge,
or what?  Also, what could cause a single methane cloud, as is
seen near Titan's south pole?

Rick


author: John Curtis

subject: Re: Titan Geology

text:
"Rick" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...
       At Titan's surface temperature, 95 K, liquid methane is the
       principal component of the oceans. Ethane, propane etc. are
       solid and could contribute to sludge.
       In a post to an astronomy group, "Jack" suggests a methane-
       emitting volcano. The size of the cloud reminds me of the
       intensity of ancient Yellowstone with a crater the size of
       Rhode Island.
       Methane is the second largest "metal" in the solar nebula,
       exceeded only by water in a ratio of 2 to 1.
 http://www.genesismission.org/educate/kitchen/techappl/pdf/PlanetDiver.pdf
       We don't see methane in Earth's volcanos because of 21% oxygen
       in our atmosphere.  With the aid of volcano temperatures,
       oxygen instantly converts methane into CO2. Only in a deepsea
       volcano, where free oxygen is scarce, do we see the primordial
       constituents of the solar nebula: hydrogen, helium-3, methane,
       hydrogen sulfide, Radon-222, ....
 http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/vents/chemistry/images/vents2.gif
       The rocks on Titan will be similar to the rocks on the Moon,
       because both were formed in the absence of free oxygen:
       anorthite, olivine and ilmenite. The following rocks will
       be absent: hematite, carbonate, sulfate, andesite, quartz
       or any other oxide. Because of low temperatures,
       hydrogen sulfide will be a solid rock. Knock on wood. John Curtis


subject: Re: Titan Geology

text:
"Rick" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

At Saturday's press conference they suggested that these are
orographic clouds formed by air upwelling over topography.  The clouds
form when the methane condensation temperature is reached at about 15
km altitude.  And the formation might have due to increased heating
since this is early southern summer and the pole is continually
illuminated.

Pete


author: George

subject: Re: Titan Geology

text:
"Traveler82" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Of course, since it is so cold there, heating is a relative term.  But with the
extreme temperature, I do not find it surprising that you would get such
upwelling and condensation with only slight rise in temperature.  My question is
why are the particles in the clouds so large?


author: don findlay

subject: Re: Titan Geology

text:
" George" <[email]> wrote in message news:<3duGc.8048$[email]>...

...And mine is, why isn't there convection and why don't they subduct?


author: Tom R. Rastell

subject: Found possible alien technology in South America!

text:
We found an unknown material, very durable, in an ancient city in
South America during our last expedition.

Possible that it is from an alien spaceship or a much advanced
civilization on earth like Atlantis.

Further expeditions will follow.


author: Inger Johansson

subject: Re: Found possible alien technology in South America!

text:
"Tom R. Rastell" <[email]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email]...

At least referenses, articles and technologic studies I hope.

Inger E


author: St Cuthbert's Host

text:
In <[email]> Tom R. Rastell wrote:

Ah yes those tatty alien spaceships steadily shedding highly durable
mysterious material. Maybe you have found an alien penile implant?


author: kathycarp

subject: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
Patient comes in for preconceptual counseling. She is 49 years old.
Makes me tired to just think about it.

Kathy


author: RaeMorrill

subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
You got me there. My sister had a baby this past spring at 51 (almost
52). Her DH is about 12 years older - their first child. She's in
excellent health and shape, but she is still over 50. EEK.


subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
Well, to each his own. I'm sure they are thrilled with their baby. The
risk for a chromosomal abnormality at 49 is about 1 in 10. If a baby
was dropped into my life I would adapt, but it certainly would be a
lifestyle change. Of course all I think of now is how much work it is,
but when I remember rocking and nursing a baby to sleep or reading to
a toddler in PJs, fresh out of a bath... those were the best times of
my life, no question about it.

Kathy

On Nov 3, 10:40 am, RaeMorrill <RaeMorrill.3ib...@no-
mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:


author: Sandi

subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
On Nov 3, 12:28 pm, kathycarp <[email]> wrote:

HEY!  I resemble that remark!  :)

Sandi


subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
I may be losing it, but I didn't think you were 50 when you had the
little guy.

Kathy

On Nov 3, 12:01 pm, Sandi <[email]> wrote:


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
On Nov 3, 11:55 am, kathycarp <[email]> wrote:

Well I am safe in saying this (cause I know you aren't getting
preggers any time soon), but if you turned up pregnant, I should shoot
myself.  Talk about a lifestyle change. You would have to move to SP
full time because the rumors about you in OR would be nonending.
There you could hire a couple of nannies and live your insanity
without having to explain yourself.

Janice


subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
On Nov 3, 3:22 pm, kathycarp <[email]> wrote:

Nah, I was on the brink of 42.  But you never know...  ;)

Sandi


author: Anne V.

subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
Geez, she's 5 years older than I am, and I think I'd jump off a bridge if I
found out I was pregnant!!!  I have a hard enough time keeping up with my
7-y/o grandson, and I don't have sole responsibility for him.

Anne

"kathycarp" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
Please note my choice of words. I did not say "if I got pregnant". I
said, "if a baby was dropped into my life". This could happen - look
at the number of grandparents raising grandkids. However, since I am
almost 59 and definitely postmenopausal it would be a medical miracle
if I got pregnant. Not to mention that it would be an immaculate
conception since I haven't had sex since Mr. Can't-keep-it-in-his-
pants was evicted. <sigh>

Kathy

On Nov 3, 12:44 pm, [email] wrote:


author: LizzieB

subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
Sandi wrote:

You got a ways to go before 49.  I had my last at 37 and can't imagine
having had another one.

<shudder>


subject: Re: WHAT is she thinkin?

text:
You are a braver woman than I, Sandi!  ;-)  How's the little guy doing, BTW?

Anne

"Sandi" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Nah, I was on the brink of 42.  But you never know...  ;)

Sandi


subject: Innocent Student Needs Ideas

text:
Hello, My name is Elise and I am a sophomore at the University of Memphis. I
am currently an English major with a math minor, and I am in the 2nd chapter of
Gleick's Chaos book. I am also interested in initiating a Fractal/Chaos theory
class at my university. I have the support of my Honor's program director, but
being innocent of most basic theories involved in fractals/chaos theory, I have
no idea what to suggest to be included in the class as far as topics to be
covered. Could I please have some basic ideas/topics that should DEFINITELY be
covered in an introductory fractal class? Please e-mail me. Even lab ideas
would be appreciated! And any fundamental texts we could use would be helpful,
too.

Unending thanks,

Elise Anne Hudson
[email]


author: Raj Iyer

subject: Re: Innocent Student Needs Ideas

text:
In article <[email]>,
 <[email]> wrote:
am currently an English major with a math minor, and I am in the 2nd chapter of
being innocent of most basic theories involved in fractals/chaos theory, I have

Well, I pushed the Math department here at Penn for an intorductory
course in fractal geometry.  Here is the syllabus and texts we came up
with.  The course is directed at upper level math students.  Feel free
to e-mail with any questions / comments.

--Raj

Course:		Math 480 - Introduction to Fractal Geometry
Instructor:	Dr. Alexander Kirillov
Time:		TR 3-4:30

Text:  	Edgar, Gerald A.  Measure, Topology, and Fractal Geometry.
	(Undergraduate Texts in Mathematics) Springer-Verlag, 1990.

Additional reference books:

MORE ABOUT FRACTALS:  H.-O. Peitgen, H.Juergens, D.Saupe.
Chaos and Fractals. New Frontiers of Science.  Springer-Verlag, 1992.

MORE ABOUT MATHEMATICS:  A. A. Kirillov, A.D.Gvishiani.
Theorems and Problems in Functional Analysis. (Problem books in
Mathematics) Springer-Verlag, 1982.

Overview to topics (based on Edgar table of contents):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FRACTAL EXAMPLES:  	The Triadic Cantor Dust, The Sierpinski Gasket,
			A Space of Strings, Sets Defined Recursively,
			Number Systems

METRIC TOPOLOGY:  	Metric Spaces, Separable and Compact Spaces,
			Uniform Convergence, The Hausdorff Metric,
			Metrics for Strings

TOPOLOGICAL DIMENSION:  Small and Large Inductive Dimension,
			Two-Dimensional Euclidean Space,
			Other Topological Dimensions

SELF-SIMILARITY:	Ratio Lists, String Models, Graph Self-Similarity

MEASURE THEORY:		Lebesgue Measure, Method I,
			Two-Dimensional Lebesgue Measure, Method II,
			Measures for Strings

HAUSDORFF DIMENSION:	Hausdorff Measure, Examples, Self-Similarity,
			Graph Self-Similarity, Other Fractal Dimensions

ADDITIONAL TOPICS:	A Three Dimensional Dragon, Overlap,
			Self-Affine Sets, Other Examples.

PREREQUISITES:
1) Experience reading (and preferrably writing) mathematical proofs
2) Basic set theory (abstract notion of a function, finite v. infinite sets,
   countable v. uncountable sets)
3) Calculus (continuous functions, sum of infinite series, limit of a
   sequence, the least upper bound axiom for the real number system)
4) Basic linear algebra (vector spaces, linear operators, eigenvalues and
   eigenvectors)

_____________________________________________________________________________
Raj Iyer					       [email]
Department of Computer and Information Science, University of Pennsylvania

"Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not circles,
and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in straight lines."
			- Benoit Mandelbrot, _The Fractal Geometry of Nature_
_____________________________________________________________________________


author: Finn Bjarte Tennfjord

subject: Reply: Innocent Student Needs Ideas

text:
In article <[email]> [email] writes:

I will here give you some ideas of which topics to choose as a basis for
further study:

The Feigenbaum sequence.(discrete logistic equation)
The Lorenz Attractor
On Hubbards study of Newtons method
The Phase Space and Strange Attractors
The Lyapunov Exponents and the reconstruction of a strange attractor(the work
of Shaw,Farmer)
Devanys definition of chaos
The Mandelbrot Set and it's Julia Sets.
Fractal Basin boundarys.

Lab suggestion:

The three magnet problem, that is, the-three-magnet-and-a-pendulum-made-of
-some-ironic-material problem. This experiment shows the beauty of fractal
basin boundarys, as well as it's fantasic intertwined structure.

Feel free to e-mail me:

     Finn Tennfjord
     [email]


author: Patrick Sears

subject: Thermochemistry: Heats of reaction

text:
Is there a decent (or even poor) database on the web which lists heats of
reaction ?

Thanks

Patrick

Patrick Sears : Thermal Hazard Technology : UK


author: Eric Lucas

subject: Re: Thermochemistry: Heats of reaction

text:
A database of heats of reaction would be uselessly complicated.  Think about
it.  If you have 100 chemicals that could react in pairs, then you have to
have thermodyanmic data for 10,000 reactions.  However, lists of heats of
formation of chemicals that can potentially participate in reactions is a
different story...  NBS Circular 500 was hugely popular when I was in
junior-year pchem in college.  Has thermodyanmic data for a huge number of
inorganic and organic compounds.  Check it out--presumably it's available on
the current NIST www site.

    Eric Lucas

"Patrick Sears" <[email]> wrote in message
news:3ef7122b$0$12996$[email]...


author: Ron

subject: Re: Thermochemistry: Heats of reaction

text:
Patrick Sears wrote:

If you find one Patrick, let me know...  ;-)


author: Josh Halpern

subject: Re: Thermochemistry: Heats of reaction

text:
The NIST webbook has many heats of formation.  You might also
look at links form

http://tigger.uic.edu/~mansoori/Thermodynamic.Data.and.Property_html

josh halpern

Patrick Sears wrote:


author: Gavin Whittaker

subject: Re: Thermochemistry: Heats of reaction

text:
Patrick Sears <[email]> writted:
: Is there a decent (or even poor) database on the web which lists heats of
: reaction ?

  Do you actually need heats of reaction, or is there any reason why you
can't use heats of formation and, for example, Kirchoff's equation?  Any
tabulated reaction enthalpies are almost certainly not going to be for
the conditions that you're interested in.
  DH(f) data are widely available in physical chemistry textbooks and the
CRC handbook.

  Gavin


author: G. R. L. Cowan

subject: Re: Thermochemistry: Heats of reaction

text:
Ron wrote:

http://webbook.nist.gov/,
http://webbook.nist.gov/chemistry/form-ser.htm .
What's not to like?

--- Graham Cowan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html --
how cars gain nuclear cachet


author: Cory Brennan

subject: Re: Yet More Bizarre and Abusive Practices of Psychiatry

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Mike Rael) wrote:

Yes, I've read several of his works. He co-founded Citizens Commission on
Human Rights, by the way, and he speaks regularly at CCHR events.

I think the danger of using a pill to solve human problems is several-fold.
1. People really don't know what those pills do, or what damage they may
do. Most people who take seratonin inhibitors (for instance) that I've
talked to have no idea what they actually do - i.e. that it is a seratonin
uptake *inhibitor* and doesn't actually produce more seratonin, or balance
any 'chemical imbalance'. I don't think people are looking closely enough
at the chemical imbalances - or potential damages - that are *caused* by
artificial chemical panaceas.

2. It allows psychiatry to avoid the whole issue of the *cause* of the
problem. If they can get people to 'feel good' by popping a pill, what is
the incentive to do otherwise? Especially when pill-popping is so
financially lucrative.

3. It seems that psychiatrists' new religion in many cases is the religion
of chemical experience. As I said before, they have forgotten the soul,
and do not take into account what effect their drugs may have on it.

4. There are other, more natural and less intrusive approaches to handling
the body which are neglected because of the fascination with drugs (and
their bottom line).

So there is a serious ethical problem with the billions of dollars and
numerous resources that are being poured into this chemical 'fix-all' for
mental and spiritual problems.

There are over 25 million words in taped lectures and books that discuss
Scientology and Dianetics principles. Hubbard spent a good part of 30
years after writing Dianetics refining and further developing the area.
His work in the area is quite extensive. Dianetics was put together and
published in part because of the huge response it had gotten just from
word of mouth and writings being distributed by hand.

Scientology and Dianetics are *not* psychology though and were based on
much  more disciplined and successful approaches to the problems of the
mind - and spirit (something psychology largely ignores or even denies
completely). I know this statement may start a debate which I do not have
the time to engage in. So suffice it to say, this is my opinion, based on
my own observation of both works - and results - from Scientology and
psychology. Others are welcome to their opinion, and I encourage others to
study the works - and results - themselves and come to their own
conclusions about it.

I will look at this book, if I can find it. I suggest, if you are
interested, that you check out the new Scientology web site, at
http://www.scientology.org. You don't have to buy anything, and the site
has several writings by L Ron Hubbard as well as comprehensive information
about Scientology and Dianetics.

Cory


author: Steve A

text:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[email] (Cory Brennan) wrote:

Oh, this ought to be good!

that's serOtonin, Cory. If you're going to bang on about it, at least
learn to spell one of the main substances associated with the topic
first.

Bollocks. What they are uncertain of is HOW they do what they do. What
IS known is WHAT they do which is, as you go on to point out, in
contradiction of your original point, to act as a...

I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. Serotonin
uptake inhibitors work by inhibiting the action of enzymes which
reabsorb the serotonin produced by the brain: thus, in depressed
individuals whose serotonin levels are low, the net result will be an
increase in those serotonin levels. It's got nothing to do with
"balancing chemical imbalance".

OK, Cory, so you're all of a sudden knowledgeable about the mechanisms
of serotonin control - how do YOU propose we regulate serotonin
levels?

Crap. The treatment plan is that the medication alleviates the
depression *specifically* so that the patient is then capable of
applying a more long-term therapeutic strategy: it's pretty hard to
take in talking treatments when all you want to do is cut your wrists.

Of course, there may by physicians or psychiatrists even who take a
less responsible approach. If this is found to happen, then of course
such individuals should account for their actions. It doesn't mean
that the whole profession is automatically tarred with the same brush.

Oh, and incidentally, Cory, I was wondering whether this sudden
increase in output from you and the rest of the Ronbots had anything
to do with the comprehensive defeat you suffered in Holland, and which
is documented over on http:/www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink. Oops, I seem to
have told everybody on *.psychology.* about your hidden agenda...oh
well....

- --
Steve: SP4 and Clam Cluster, KoX, KOh
Minister in the First Electronic Church of SCAMIZDAT,
High Grand Pappadum of the Church of the SubGenius.

I thought...Bob had fallen and he couldn't get up?
[on Bob Penny, multiple sclerosis sufferer]
     -- "Vera Wallace", official CoS stooge,
        demonstrating the caring side of Scientology.

"Revenimus, MF" -- Capricorn.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2i

iQCVAwUBMU34sWK4mshjLd+dAQEyqwP/TX0XonTKMKC/tvHrDEmG9rGqK27SU6CR
dAJ85A7x76HLB/ffIumJSi58+DXOaKe9LKM76eaaXI6bGPdGaMt+JjhQJsCryQG0
plPMcV+JBV/mAq+/rTXAIdOrHs0L69dgbHIoVSh+zOG9o9jiqlWC2iDzqPetdZlg
YubAUXOF+BM=
=STiy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


author: Diane Richardson

text:
[email] (Cory Brennan) wrote:

Cory, does the CCHR agree with Dr. Szasz's belief that suicidal
patients should not be held back from killing themselves?  Do you
and your organization encourage depressed patients to kill
themselves?  Is that Hubbard's "final solution"?

Here's a little quote from a news report of Dr. Szasz's latest
victim:

[snip]

Do you also think that using a drug to solve the problems of
diabetes are several-fold as well, Cory?

How much to you know about the activity of insulin in the human
body, Cory?  Would you recommend that an insulin-dependent
diabetic cease taking his insulin injections because he doesn't
understand the chemical imbalance in his system?

I've asked you this question before, Cory, but you refuse to
confront it.  You appear to have been hornswoggled by your
"Church" into believing that the brain does not react to
pharmacotherapy in the same way as other human organs do.
That's a terribly shallow and uninformed opinion, Cory, but it
helps bring money into your "Church's" coffers.

Precisely the same argument can be made regarding insulin and
diabetes mellitus, Cory.  Just think!  If we had diabetics
keeling over dead right and left, if those juvenile diabetics
never had a chance to grow to adulthood, you can be guaranteed
that there would be a lot more pressure on scientists to find a
"cure" for diabetes -- not that the pressure would necessarily do
any good, mind you.

And, of course, your "Church's" nemesis Eli Lilly made its
fortune and its reputation producing insulin.  There's one hell
of a lot of money in insulin, Cory.  Probably more than in
psychopharmaceuticals.

You may have said that psychiatrists have forgotten the soul, but
you certainly can't prove it.  You might also say that the moon
is made of green cheese, Cory.  Neither statement has any merit.

Are you referring to the Introspection Rundown, Cory?  Your
"Church's" infamous method of treating serious mental illness?
Lock up the psycho and leave him alone until he promises to obey
your rules?  Would you like me to post a little more of Hubbard's
writings about what goes on in the "spin bins," as he so cleverly
calls mental institutions?

Do you actually consider the Introspection Rundown "less
intrusive," Cory?

Of course, your "Church" would much rather see those billions of
dollars pouring into its own coffers, wouldn't it, Cory?  That
wouldn't mean you'd be making any more money than you are now,
you poor dear, but perhaps David Miscavige could treat his buddy
Tom Cruise to yet another marvelous extravaganza.  After all,
that's what you're working for, aren't you -- for the greater
glory of your "Church" and its leaders?

Diane Richardson
[email]


author: Koreen B

text:
wrote:

than my

<<Cory, does the CCHR agree with Dr. Szasz's belief that suicidal
patients should not be held back from killing themselves?  Do you
and your organization encourage depressed patients to kill
themselves? >>

No, we do not. We definitely believe a person should be helped to survive.
It is one of our most basic premises.
 CCHR's purpose is to investigate and expose violations of human rights,
and abuses within the field of mental health, which has no relation to
what you are discussing.

Thomas Szasz had many ideas, some of which I don't agree with. That does
not eliminate the validity, intelligience and great insight of the
majority of his writings, however.

several-fold.

<<Do you also think that using a drug to solve the problems of
diabetes are several-fold as well, Cory?>>

This is a very weak analogy, because insulin treats a physical condition,
while psychiatric drugs treat mental conditions. They are unrelated, and I
definitely believe medical drugs should be used when appropriate for
physical conditions.

seratonin
balance

<<How much to you know about the activity of insulin in the human
body, Cory?  Would you recommend that an insulin-dependent
diabetic cease taking his insulin injections because he doesn't
understand the chemical imbalance in his system?>>

<<I've asked you this question before, Cory, but you refuse to
confront it.  You appear to have been hornswoggled by your
"Church" into believing that the brain does not react to
pharmacotherapy in the same way as other human organs do.>>

The brain of course has a reaction to chemicals. But when you are treating
the body for a problem involving the mind, then you start having problems.
I understand that you believe that man is just a piece of mud, a series of
chemicals, with no mind or soul. And this justifies the theory that it is
desirable to control behavior, mood and consciousness with artificial
application of chemicals. This is not the case, however, and this approach
is not workable over the long term. If one examines the actual products
and statistics of psychiatry, this will become very apparent.

On the other hand, I do feel it would be most desirable to concentrate on
finding a way to handle the body to produce its own insulin, if possible,
rather than injecting it artificially. Some Eastern medicines concentrate
more on this approach.  But I would not suggest a person stop using
insulin until this alternative was available.

My point is that there is little or no work being done in that direction
(i.e. the direction of finding natural, humanistic and non-intrusive
methods of treatment), especially in the field of the mind, because it is
not as profitable or easy to do.

Cory Brennan


author: Gym Bob

subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
Take magnesium oxide 1-2000mg per day for a few weeks at least.
Change your body pH

"j" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: GMCarter

subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 01:35:47 GMT, "Gym Bob" <[email]>
wrote:

Where are the data showing high dose magnesium does more than
potentially cause diarrhea?

		George M. Carter


author: Moosh:

subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 01:35:47 GMT, "Gym Bob" <[email]>
wrote:

Can't you read?  The body's pH can't be changed.

"What have I got?"
Frank Spencer in Some Mothers Do Have 'em.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GOHDE <"My genes do *not* influence my weight!"> GOHDE

Moosh:)


subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
Who cares. You can experiment with it at minimal risk or suffer and whine.

"GMCarter" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:55:41 GMT, "Gym Bob" <[email]>
wrote:

LOL....don't get bitchy, Bob. I think you might suggest that people
ramp up the dose over a few days. It may be that the cause of the eye
twitch will resolve on its own, with or without the Mg.

It is an inexpensive intervention. I'd just been reading an article on
the lack of bioavailability of most oral Mg--that its best benefit is
via IV use....so I was hoping you'd have some info that countered
that. If you dig any up, please share!

George M. Carter


subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
GMCarter wrote:

  LOL!! More than 100 mg of Magnesium in an eight hour period can and most
likely WILL cause The trots.  However..always balance your minerals with the
catalysers needed or they just go THROUGH you with little effect. The rule:
Vit C catalyse Vit E, which with the help of Vit B6 caatalyses ALL minerals
effectively. WHy waste them by
making intestial FODDER out of them?

The best source of USABLE magnesium is in NON HOMOGENISED Milk. The majick
TRIO of  Magnesium, Phosphrus, and Calcium keep muscles and ligaments in TONE
(They also prevent those painful leg cramps after exercises or in older folk
come on at any time...usually at night! )  If you want a GOOD recipe for
making a really tastey milk from Powdered product (safer) write me an e-mail
and I'll spell it out. Smiles!!  B-0b1


subject: Re: eye twitch

text:
GMCarter wrote:

already with    >> > specific amounts needed and what WILL work best. AN eye
twitch is due to the  >> > muscular control. Vit B2 is needed here..just add
EXTRA to your normal B > > > > >Complex. It makes your urine more yellow...big
deal!
that!. > > > LOL! B-0b1
-
Worldsï¿½ largest producer of Lin Xhi (Kombucha) Synergisms

Homogenizing milk KILLS!
Over 1 million Autopsies do not lie...


author: Emmett

subject: alcohol stopping arrhythmia?

text:
Hi,

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

I recently had this weird feeling like my heart is skipping a beat.

I figure it is an arrhythmia. It's been happening more regularly.

It got really bad yesterday evening,
like one skipped beat every minute or two. I fot a little freaked out.

I had a glass of wine and it STOPPED, the heart beat returned to
normal.

I thought alcohol was a contributing factor to arrhythmia and
was avoinding it. But since it helped I am now confused.

I've made an appt. with my doctor but it's not for a couple of days.
Has anyone heard of alcohol stopping an  episode or did the wine just
calm mt nervousness.


author: Richard Cavell

subject: Re: alcohol stopping arrhythmia?

text:
I've only heard of alcohol stopping arrhythmias.  But as you describe,
alcohol causes changes in the sympathetic nervous system that might, under
the right conditions, stop an arrhythmia.


author: Bas

subject: Re: alcohol stopping arrhythmia?

text:
I know for a fact that alcohol can induce atrial fibrillation. So much
for the pro-arrythmic effect. Indeed, if you experience palpitations
after exercise, you might suffer from atrial fibrillation that is
caused by an increased sympathetic tone. And if you relax when taking
a glass of wine, the arrythmia may stop. A couple of things you should
realize: Your arrythmia is probably atrial fibrillation, or just
symptomatic extra beats (premature ventricular contraction, PVC's).
These are very benign rythm disturbances. They won't kill you, and you
can live to be a hundred years old with these. If it's atrial
fibrillation, you might want to look for a cause. But the rythm
disturbance in itself is extremely bening.

Hope this helps you relax enough to stop the palpitations from
re-occurring.

Bas Kietselaer, M.D.

"Richard Cavell" <[email]> wrote in message news:<ab2l4l$1kvg$[email]>...


subject: Re: alcohol stopping arrhythmia?

text:
Sorry, obviously I've mistyped here.  I've only heard of alcohol *starting*
arrhythmias.


subject: Re: alcohol stopping arrhythmia?

text:
I don't know why American doctors talk so much about autonomic nervous
system dysfunction as a cause for AF.  I don't think I've ever seen a
patient with AF that couldn't be explained with the usual list.

Atrial fibrillation can lead to mural thrombus formation, that can embolise
to brain (causing stroke), gut (causing ischemic gut), legs, arms, or
anywhere else.  Anyone with AF should be anticoagulated, all other things
being equal.  It can also cause low cardiac output, and precipitate cardiac
failure, dizziness, collapse, and the consequences of these things.  This
might create a need for slowing the heart rate with digoxin, or reversing it
with DC cardioversion, and so on.


author: Igor Evsikov

text:
I have uploaded to Simtel.Net:

ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/win95/calc/wiscy99.zip 4271333 bytes

wiscy99.zip     WiSCy99: Scientific Calculator/Graph Suite

WiSCy99 v.4.15 Calculator/Graph Suite (Windows 95/98/NT) is the complete
and easy-to-use scientific calculator.  The results of calculation can
be visualization, printing as graphic, as text or saving to disk.

Features:
      - Arithmetic and logical operators
      - Common functions such as exp, ln, sqrt, sqr etc.
      - Trigonometric, Hyperbolic  functions
      - Numerical Integration
      - Equations can be solved
      - Special functions (Gamma, Bessels, Si, Ci, erf)
      - Statistic functions (Average, Standard deviation, Sum, Random,
        Gauss random, statistical variance )
      - FOR-type loop
      - Tape of results
      - Assistant and debug: error position fixed
      - Plot f(X), Contour Plot f(X,Y), Color Shading  f(X,Y),
        real 3D-Plot f(X,Y), Derivative, Fit.
      - Print results, graphics and print preview
      - Save graphics to BMP, WMF, EMF formats
      - Matrix Operations: (A+B=C, A-B=C, A*B=C, inverse(A)=C,
        Power(A,n)=C, det |A|=C[1.1], Solve A(X)=C)
      - Decimal, Hexadecimal and Binary bases
      - Fixed point, Scientific, Engineering and Sexagesimal notations
      - Radian and Degree modes for trigonometric functions
      - Precision: 10-12 significant digits.
      - Range: _(3.4E-4392 to 1.1E+4392)
      - 10 pre defined variables, user define variables
      - User define functions
      - 30 user defined constants (up to 16000), search and edit file
        with constants.
      - Stack for expressions (up to 16000)
      - Stack for results (up to 16000)

Special requirements: None.

Changes: Matrix operations added.

wiscy99.zip has replaced wiscy41.zip.

Shareware.  Uploaded by the author.

Igor Evsikov
[email]
[email]