author: 2823 Dead in Afghanistan

subject: Re: Deal at Last at UN climate change talks!   -- Video

text:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:55:42 -0800, Foxtrot wrote:

No, it will be self-interest.  Climate change will cost those countries
trillions, and China, as least, is seeing social unrest over the other
forms of pollution it emits already.

You mean, I might fuck up the entire planet in order to save $5 on a tank
of gas?

--
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution
inevitable” -JFK

--
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution
inevitable” -JFK


text:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 08:38:17 -0800, Foxtrot wrote:

Compared to America, which gives out 300 year prison sentences, reduced
to good behavior 50 years if you are willing to work for twenty five
cents an hour.

They're not
And yet China is already investing tens of billions into green
technology, pulling well ahead of America.  Imagine that.

You already destroyed the American economy.  What's to hand over?

--
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution
inevitable” -JFK

--
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution
inevitable” -JFK


author: Richard Steel

subject: Re: Deal at Last at UN climate change talks! -- Video

text:
On Dec 13, 1:23 am, Doug Bashford <[email]> wrote:

Bwahahahahahahahaha.  "legally binding cuts"?  How does that work,
exactly?  How does the UN force China to do anything?


text:
On Dec 14, 7:12 am, "6338 Dead, 1481 since 1/20/09" <[email]>
wrote:

What does ethics and values have to do with the UN and the global
warming scam?


text:
On Dec 14, 1:38 pm, "6338 Dead, 1481 since 1/20/09" <[email]>
wrote:

Except that you're none of those things.  You're petty, childish, and
honestly paranoid.


text:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:02:20 -0800, Foxtrot wrote:

Not everyone has your utter lack of ethics and values, you know.

--
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution
inevitable” -JFK

--
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution
inevitable” -JFK


author: Foxtrot

text:
Doug Bashford <[email]> wrote:

Legally binding cuts on China?!? Exactly who is going to enforce
those binding cuts?

You Warmers are unbelievably gullible. China and India will give lip
service to the cuts but won't do a damn thing. Meanwhile you
Warmers will try to get us to drastically cut our standard of living.
You'll raise the cost of doing business here so guess where the jobs
will go? China and India.

Dumb liberal patsies.


text:
2823 Dead in Afghanistan <[email]> wrote:

China deals with social unrest with bullets to the heads. They're
not going to sacrifice any of their power. The people's priorities are
not getting shot in the head then feeding their families. They don't
give a shit about pollution. Geez you're naive.

No I mean you'd hand over our economy under the belief that China,
India and Mexico would play fair and make drastic sacrifices of their
own.


author: gordo

text:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 22:15:05 -0800 (PST), Richard Steel
<[email]> wrote:

What is with the Bwahahahahahahahaha ? Are you insane or just crazy?

The last time I looked Canada was the only country to break an
international agreement on Global Warming.Here is how it works. Every
government represented at Durban has agreed to cuts in emissions of
greenhouse gases and has agreed to a final binding agreement. The
seriousness of the issue is what is forcing all governments to act.
Stay tuned for the next heat wave to hit when La Nina ends possibly
this coming fall and El Nino to kick in. Be prepared for more extreme
weather in the coming months.


text:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 22:16:13 -0800 (PST), Richard Steel
<[email]> wrote:

Piss off with your warming scam. Since when have you more knowledge
than all the countries in the world and all the Science academies etc.
Warming scam...You are in denial of the world around you and may have
to be put away for your own protection.


text:
"6338 Dead, 1481 since 1/20/09" <[email]> wrote:

Answer the question, eh?

You actually think China and India will allow their economic futures be
determined by the ethics of left wing westerners??? LOL

God help us if you get enough power to do the damage you want.


author: Doug Bashford

text:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, 6338 Dead, wrote:

..................snip

One of the main differences between liberal and
conservatives is that conservatives think people are
naturally dispicable (most often: as Evil).  More so,
if they aint just like em.

Test that against the "benchmark" issues: guns, abortion,
taxes, defense, hate talk radio, fear-talk radio,
hate politics, Party of No, ...anything I can think of.

I used to think it was *THE* difference.  Now, not so sure.
Funny, Iranians love Americans more than Republicans do.
Funny, Italians love Americans more than Republicans do.
Cuz Republicans hate half the Americans.
So what do they mean by "I love America?"

Many of the most Churchly freely admit, without Church,
they would rape and pillage.  Seriously.
I say, - Thank GOD for Church!

How would you like to be trapped in a brain like that?
Hell, I'd be scared wittless too!

  The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
  The rational change their world view to fit the facts.


text:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 08:38:17 -0800, Foxtrot <[email]> wrote:

You have not kept up.
China Halts Project as Protests Erupt Over Death of Villager, Land
Sales
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-15/china-halts-project-as-protests-erupt-over-death-of-villager-land-sales.html

No you are naive.

What the hell are you talking about. Canada is the only nation to have
broken the Kyoto treaty. You know crap about the emerging China .
Actually neither do I  but I do know that things are changing as a
result of the internet.


text:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:56:25 -0800, Doug Bashford <[email]>
wrote:

I used to have a sig that went something like this:

Liberals are confident, outgoing and trusting because they believe
most people are like them.

Conservatives are mistrustful, paranoid and fearful for much the same
reason.
--
"So called payroll taxes aren't taxes at all"  -- Steve Canyon, trying to explain
why millionaires don't actually pay less taxes than median income families.


author: lpacker

subject: Re: Question

text:
[email] wrote:

Your best strategy is to ask.  In many places, "P.A." might indicate
"Physician Assistant,"  but the combination of PsyD and Physician
Assistant is not a likely one,  which leads me to suspect that there's
some other meaning.    And there have been times when we've seen
somewhat misleading things where it looks like a person has the title,
but it's just pending.   So could someone put "PSY.D  P.A." to mean
"PsyD, Proposal Approved"?  You won't know until you ask them.

Are you sure it's "P.A." and not "PA" for Pennsylvania?

(Sorry..... I think the latkes went to my head and the oil clogged the
cerebral arteries up more than usual........:))


author: John M Price PhD

subject: Re: Question

text:
In sci.psychology.psychotherapy article <[email]> lpacker <[email]> wrote:
: [email] wrote:

:>PSY.D. P.A.     What does "P.A." stand for?
:>
:>Thanks!
:>
: Your best strategy is to ask.  In many places, "P.A." might indicate
: "Physician Assistant,"  but the combination of PsyD and Physician
: Assistant is not a likely one,  which leads me to suspect that there's
: some other meaning.    And there have been times when we've seen
: somewhat misleading things where it looks like a person has the title,
: but it's just pending.   So could someone put "PSY.D  P.A." to mean
: "PsyD, Proposal Approved"?  You won't know until you ask them.

That would be unethical.  You can't have the 'D' until the third signature
hits the title page.

: Are you sure it's "P.A." and not "PA" for Pennsylvania?

: (Sorry..... I think the latkes went to my head and the oil clogged the
: cerebral arteries up more than usual........:))

Aren't you supposed to have some wine to avoid that?


author: JJubala

subject: Re: Question

text:
lpacker wrote:

Actually, Leslie, two years ago we had an I/O Psychologist come to our hospital
who was retooling to become a P.A.. He was a "trainer" type of guy, and the
business all dried up. He has a Ph.D., so somewhere there's a Ph.D. P.A.
floating around....

Jack (who lives in PA)(

****************************************************
"A dog is better than I am, for he has love and he does not judge."
   - Abbe Xanthios


subject: Re: Question

text:
[email] (JJubala) wrote:

A PA Ph.D. P.A..........

My eyes are glazing over...... :)

Happy Holidays, Jack!

Leslie (who once lived in PA and who has a Ph.D. but was never a
P.A...... <eyes now crossing gently......>)


subject: initial flash from helmet?

text:
I bought my speedglass from ebay and I was always wondering if it was
working properly or not.  Using MIG auto setting shade 11, when the
electrode starts to contact the material I would see a brief flash
before it darkens.  I have made it a habit to close my eyes and press
the trigger simultaneously.

I weld relatively thin stuff, usally setting 1 or 2 on a baby mig,
maybe the amps aren't high enough to be bright, but sometimes in the
middle of a weld it may pop and I see a flash.  BTW what causes the
pop/sputter, I havn't been able to figure it out.

I can get no flashing by using the red setting on the speed glass,
where you can set custom-sensitivity and this won't happen.  There was
one day I had to go outside and weld, I looked at the bright street
and my helmet darken (red setting), I used the auto setting that day
and I got no flash.   So I guess the ambient light will directly
affect what the helmet's trigger during welding?


author: Ian

subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
"jj3000" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I have a Speedglas 9000x and would recommend you turn your sensitivity
switch down to 9 or 10 since you're working on such low-amp work.  I had a
similar experience with my helmet.  Since the Speedglas helmet protects you
from any ultraviolet light AT ALL TIMES at a 14 level equivalent shade, you
are definitely not at risk of getting flash-burn.  When I weld MIG at
amperages below 22 (short-circuit) I use a shade level of 9 and it works
great for me - no flash at all.

Hope this helps.

- Ian


author: John T. McCracken

subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
"jj3000" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

None of the modern auto lenses will allow you to get a flash, they all offer
100% protection even in their lightened mode. Probably not an answer to your
question but of interest to auto lense users none the less.   JTMcC.


author: David Todtman

subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
I believe you may get some direct help from calling the speedglas
distributer.  I contacted the Canadian distributer before I made my
purchase.  They were very helpful in answering all my pre-purchase
questions.
Ciao,
David Todtman
"jj3000" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
I must not be drinking enough coffee.  I mean VOLTAGES below 22...  :)

- Ian
"Ian" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9%yt9.7861$46.1546@fe01...
you
you


author: S. Ztrauq

subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
"John T. McCracken" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
offer
your
If by "flash" you mean, exposure to dangerous levels of UV or IR light -
correct, because the lens is a bandpass filter. But if "flash" means
exposure to a painfully bright visible light that leaves blue spots floating
before your eyes - then you are wrong.

My Speedglas 9000v will lighten while an arc is lit if a) a sensor is
blocked because I've moved my head behind an obstruction, or b) it's on one
of the standard shades and the amperage is too low to trigger the sensors.
Issue b is easy to fix; just set it to "tig" mode and adjust the
sensitivity. But Issue a is always a factor when welding around an
obstruction or in an awkward position that doesn't permit a line-of-sight
between the arc and the sensors on the helmet.

I can see that a non-adjustable helmet would sometimes fail to darken
quickly when welding with very current. The only solution that comes to mind
is to sell that helmet and buy one that has adjustable sensitivity.

SZ


subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
That is what I needed to know, thanks, I am glad at least I got the
9000V also.
I was told that you leave it on MIG 11 and it would be pretty much
it.. not so.. I found the adjustable red settings works great to avoid
flash in the middle of a weld, because the puddle glow is enough to
darken it.

"S. Ztrauq" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
"S. Ztrauq" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
floating

Reread the part about 100% protection in the LIGHTENED mode, that would
indicate that I'm aware that you can see bright lights thru a auto lens, I
have done it many times, you still have 100% UV protection, as I said.
JTMcC.

one
mind


subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
"John T. McCracken" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

You're kinda grumpy, aren't you John?  Lighten up. (haha! - no pun intended,
as far as you know)

SZ


subject: Re: initial flash from helmet?

text:
"S. Ztrauq" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
all
light -
I
intended,

Maybe I'm just too sensitive, pun definitly intended. JTMcC.


author: Tom

subject: Vandalizing the sky

text:
Dale sez;

I don't buy it.  If the things had no value at all, people wouldn't
spend money to make them. So their lack of value is just your
opinion, not an actual fact, which is neither a philisophical or
legal basis for prohibiting them.

On the other hand, I lived in OakBrook IL for a while, where zoning
laws prohibit billboards, as you mention above.  I think it was a
fine law, despite it's contradictory basis.

I would guess that the best legal and moral basis for protest would
be violation of private property.  "I bought this house, out in
the boondocks, specifically to enjoy my hobby, amateur astronomy.  Now
this billboard has made that investment worthless, so I want the
price of the property, in damages."  It wouldn't take too many
succesful cases like that to make bill-sats prohibitively expensive.

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \ They communicated with the communists,
[email] 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


author: fred j mccall 575-3539

subject: Re: Vandalizing the sky

text:
In <[email]> [email] (Tom) writes:

Except for one small detail:  I thought it had already been
established that this would interfere minimally, if at all, with even
*professional* astronomers, much less with amateurs.  Damned difficult
to win a case where you can't demonstrate damages, and I don't think
complaining that your sky has been 'besmirched by vile mankind' is
going to get you real far.


author: Pat

subject: Re: Vandalizing the sky

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Tom) writes:
|On the other hand, I lived in OakBrook IL for a while, where zoning
|laws prohibit billboards, as you mention above.  I think it was a
|fine law, despite it's contradictory basis.

And I lived out there too.  It was a nice sleepy farm valley until
the Butler family decided to stick up all sorts of really tacky
High RIse office buildings and ruin my view of the sky.

I guess i should have sued somebody :-;

pat


author: john

subject: Using green colored cable for ground cable?

text:
Hey would one look stupid/anal if they replaced the black ground cable
with a green colored one?    Gee, I guess the next step is to have a
red cable too!  :-)


author: Kerry Kingsbury

subject: Re: Using green colored cable for ground cable?

text:
Truly not needed other than a way of telling which is which at the welder
for polarity sake.  But if you have #4 or #5 wire with colored insulation
available to you I say why not use it.  Heck, I didn't need to paint my shed
floor but I had the old paint so why not use it instead of trying/paying to
recycle the stuff.  Hazzardous waste you know!

As an asside...I might like 15-20 feet of each color myself!

"john" <john109.geo@noSpham!.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Ernie Leimkuhler

text:
In article <[email]>,
 john109.geo@noSpham!.yahoo.com (john) wrote:

Green would be innapropriate since that referes to an Earth Ground in the US
electrical code.

Color coding cables makes little sense especially when you need to reverse the
polarity.
Color coding the terminal lugs on the machine as Black (negative) and Red
(positive) would have some validity.


author: Ted Edwards

text:
Kerry Kingsbury wrote:

Coloured wire in the heavier gages is often hard to come by.
Electricians generaly just wrap a few inches near the ends with coloured
electrical tape (which, by the way, meets code for colour coding).  The
tape is available in packages of about five rolls of assorted colours at
most electrical suppliers.  I forget where I got mine but I would expect
even Home Depot to have it.

Ted


author: ATP

text:
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
US
Yes, and the green grounding conductor is not meant to carry any current
under normal conditions, as opposed to the grounded neutral conductor. Both
are typically bonded at the main service disconnect, but not at subpanels.


text:
Hmmm...I meant to refer to the single conductor cable running from the
welder (a crimpon eyelet that is bolted to the welder) to the ground
clamp.

I was not referring to the power cable (3 conductor) between the
welder and the plug/wall outlet.

I asked because I am considering making my cables a bit longer


author: Rob

subject: Cassette Deck Belt Drive Replacement

text:
2 out of 3 cassette decks I own now need belt replacement.  Inspection
reveals it could be quite a challenge to get at the main drive belt.
Are there any tips and/or tricks out there to do this job without
having to do a complete disassembly?  I am going to tackle the TEAC
V-306 first and it looks like I am going to have to basically remove
the entire cassette storage and drive assembly so as to pull out the
main drive pulley forward to slip on the belt.  I have to believe that
the designers took this into account and made accommodations.


author: scada

subject: Re: Cassette Deck Belt Drive Replacement

text:
"Rob" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

There is no easy way around it, usually. Study the mechanism carefully prior
to disassembly. As you remove screws, parts, place them in a container that
will separate them from other parts (egg carton works well). Place the parts
in the order of disassembly (left to right, or whatever) so you assemble in
reverse. Place paper or equivalent on work area (tape it down), and even on
the floor . It's easier to find those really small screws when they drop!
You should replace also the capstan, and even the clutches. Those are the
common parts that wear in tape machines.


author: Glenn Gundlach

text:
"scada" <[email]> wrote in message news:<OOiFc.9051$[email]>...

Suggestion. Do you have a digital camera? Even better if it has a
macro function. Get pix of the mechanism before (and during)
disassembly). I find that to be helpful, especially if you're
unfamiliar with the unit.
GG


text:
I was thinking of using my webcam to snap some photos along the way,
as I don't have a digital camera.  I'm against them.  Since there
doesn't seem to be something similar on the web, I am wishfully
thinking to post the photos with some notes to serve as a starting
point for anyone else attempting this.  I understand www.dalbani.com
and mcmelectronics have a wide assortment of inexpensive belts.  As
far as replacement of other parts, I don't think it is really worth it
at this point.  The units don't even really get used anymore, I
thought it would be a good time killer for a rainy sunday afternoon...

[email] (Glenn Gundlach) wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: Michael

subject: any active high input/output 10-4 priority encoders?

text:
Hi - I'm hoping to find a active high input active high output 10-4
priority encoder. I'm really looking for a one chip solution to this. The
only way I've been able to come up with to do this is with an eeprom - but
that really feels like overkill - and I don't even have the means to
program an eeprom at the moment. So - can anyone reccomend a solution for
me? Thanks!


author: Mark (UK

subject: Re: any active high input/output 10-4 priority encoders?

text:
Hiya!

Here's one I knocked together for you in a 16v8.....(CUPL)

Device    g16v8;

/** 10-4 ENC **/

/**  Inputs  **/

Pin 1 = i0;
Pin 2 = i1;
Pin 3 = i2;
Pin 4 = i3;
Pin 5 = i4;
Pin 6 = i5;
Pin 7 = i6;
Pin 8 = i7;
Pin 9 = i8;
Pin 11 = i9;

/**  Outputs  **/

Pin 19 = a0;
Pin 18 = a1;
Pin 17 = a2;
Pin 16 = a3;

/** Main functions **/

field input = [i9..0];
field address = [a3..0];

table input => address {
'b'0000000000 => 'b'0000;
'b'xxxxxxxxx1 => 'b'0001;
'b'xxxxxxxx1x => 'b'0010;
'b'xxxxxxx1xx => 'b'0011;
'b'xxxxxx1xxx => 'b'0100;
'b'xxxxx1xxxx => 'b'0101;
'b'xxxx1xxxxx => 'b'0110;
'b'xxx1xxxxxx => 'b'0111;
'b'xx1xxxxxxx => 'b'1000;
'b'x1xxxxxxxx => 'b'1001;
'b'1xxxxxxxxx => 'b'1010;
}

Currently running high priority. Just change the order of the table for
low priority (or any priority!!).

You could also use an 82s129 Bipolar prom, in a similar method to your
EPROM solution. the 82s129 would be ideal as it's a 256x4, so has 8
inputs and 4 outs, and is a nice compact 16 pin DIP.

Good luck! Yours, Mark.

Michael wrote:


text:
"Mark (UK)" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

I must admit - I don't know the difference between a PROM and an EEPROM.
The G16V8 is a PLD, right? So - is there any way to program a PLD or a
PROM without much extra equipment? I'll probably end up needing two of
the chips (one in a dip package for bread boarding, the other in a
surface mount package for the final circuit) so it would seem silly to
me to buy a expensive programmer. Thanks!


author: ironjustice

subject: Contraception Infection

text:
Birth Control May Boost Risk of Carrying Staph Bacteria
http://www.myhealthnewsdaily.com/3074-staph-bacteria-birth-control.html

"Increases the "pool" of people harboring the bacteria, which in turn,
may contribute to its spread to people susceptible to getting sick
from an infection".

One common effect of contraception is it may cause women to lose their
menses.
The menses are thought to keep a woman's iron levels lower.
"One reason that women have less iron in their brains is that they
lose iron when they menstruate."

IS it increased iron levels which causes an increase OF those
"harbouring infection"?
"Availability of iron for bacterial multiplication plays a critical
role in infection"

Men are known to have higher iron levels than women , which explains
the higher incidence of staph found in men and not found in women who
do not use contraceptives.

"Why bloodletting may have actually worked"
"The ancient practice of bloodletting may have slowed staph infections
by starving germs of iron"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953918/ns/health-infectious_diseases/t/why-bloodletting-may-have-actually-worked/

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk


author: [redacted]

subject: Estimate was off by 40%... what to do?

text:
I'd be grateful for any insight that I can get into this stressful
situation.

Before my dental work was done, I was given a written estimate of what
my costs would be and what my insurance would cover.  My insurance was
supposed to pay $1500 and I would pay $1781.

Fast forward; all the work is done. I have paid our portion of the bill
in full. Then I get a bill from my dentist for over $700. Their
explanation? The insurance company paid MORE than they expected for
some of the earlier claims; therefore, my insurance maxed out when only
2/3 of the way through the work, and I am responsible for the full tab
for the rest.

I always pay my bills promptly, and I don't want to rip anyone off. But
from my perspective, they have received the full amount they estimated
from me and from my insurance company. The costs of services did not
change; they performed (and billed me for) exactly the services they
had estimated.

Furthermore, if I'd gotten a more accurate estimate, I could have
chosen to
a) put off some of the work until the next calendar year (so it would
be covered) -- not all the work was urgent;
b) saved more money in my flexible spending account
c) gone with a different insurance company with a higher limit.

I understand that an estimate is only an estimate, but to be off by
almost 40%?  Is this common? It doesn't seem right to me that they have
received all the money they expected to receive for the services, and
yet I'm being billed an extra $700+.

Excuse me while I bang my head on my desk for a while.

Any insight into this situation is much appreciated.

Regards,
Rachel


subject: Re: Estimate was off by 40%... what to do?

text:
Nope. I paid what they estimated. Their explanation -- they bill the
insurance company for more than they expect to receive and then write
off the difference.

All of this work happened in a fairly short time period. I had
carefully calculated (according to their estimates of what they
expected to be reimbursed) my maximum. By the time we got the bills
back and realized they'd paid too much, it was too late.

They have received MORE money for the earlier treatments than they
expected.

No, no additional work was performed.

I did, according to THEIR estimate of what would be reimbursed. Now
since they received more money than they expected, I suddenly owe $700
more. That doesn't seem right to me.

Regards,
Rachel


author: Bill

text:
[email] wrote:

There is no question that when the dental insurance is maxed out, you
are responsible for all costs above that amount.

But if the insurance "paid MORE than they expected for some of the
earlier claims," that should mean that YOU paid LESS than expected for
those same claims.

The math is simple on those earlier claims. If the insurance paid MORE,
your share is obviously LESS than expected.

Use the money you saved when you paid LESS on the earlier claim, to pay
off the balance that you owe on the later claims.

And you don't have to take the dental office's word for it. The
insurance company sends you the original EOB's (statements of payment)
so you should be able to calculate it all by yourself down to the
penny.

These are all good strategies. Why didn't you add up all your old EOB's
so that you knew how much insurance money was available before maxing
out?

Yes, whenever the total maximum limit is not carefully tracked.

It doesn't seem right to me that they have

If they have truly received all the money expected, they would not be
billing you for the missing $700, would they? It would be illegal to
bill you for more than the total cost of treatment. Were additional
treatments necessary, over and above the planned treatments on the
original estimate? Additional treatments mean additional costs.

Your own insight above, where you list the ways to deal with the
abysmally low annual limits imposed by dental insurance companies, are
already very good insights:
"> a) put off some of the work until the next calendar year (so it
would

All you need to do is keep track of how much of the annual maximum has
been exhausted so you can put these strategies into operation. It
doesn't seem like that was done in this case, unless there is something
missing here.

Best regards,
- dentaldoc


author: scanster

subject: Continuing Education sites

text:
Hi,

Are there any sites online where we can get continuing education
points?

scanster


author: Christine Jones

subject: Re: Continuing Education sites

text:
All I know of is an ultrasound site.  Accuson.com

scanster <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Paula Drum

subject: Re: Continuing Education sites

text:
scanster wrote:

Try the ASRT's web site at: www.asrt.org/asrt.htm

Paula


author: Ed Zagmoon

subject: How to design a WMD with a CAD program???

text:
I want to create a Doomsday Device to terrorize the world.

What software do you recommend to design such a powerful WMD?


author: Ian Bell

subject: Re: How to design a WMD with a CAD program???

text:
Ed Zagmoon wrote:

You are too late - it has already been done - it is called Windows Vista.

Ian


author: Jim Thompson

text:
On 15 Jan 2007 00:26:36 -0800, "Ed Zagmoon" <[email]>
wrote:

Watch the movie, "Dr. Strangelove, or How I Came to Love the Bomb" ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson


author: qrk

text:
On 15 Jan 2007 00:26:36 -0800, "Ed Zagmoon" <[email]>
wrote:

Forth or Java.


author: finance hotshot

subject: Re: modern math is failure -- back to the drawing board

text:
decisions that cannot be made wisely without mathematical help.

yes, counting and basic algebra and accounting is quite useful. but
so-called "modern" math??!


author: Virgil

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "finance hotshot" <[email]> wrote:

Anything mathematical developed during my lifetime I regard as
reasonably modern.

Linear programming, which was developed during my lifetime, is essential
for efficient decisions in many areas. Loss of it would cripple the
worlds economy.

Effective coding of electronic messages depends on recent (in my
lifetime) developments in number theory.

The invention of the transistor (in my lifetime) which made computers,
TV's, cell phones, etc.,  practical, was based on mathematical theory
also created during my lifetime.

All of information theory and the much of the other mathematics involved
in the developement of the computer revolution was created in my
lifetime.

In fact, by quite conservative estimates, the major portion of all the
mathematics produced throughout history was created during my lifetime.


author: John Baez

subject: Math: you don't need to understand it to reap the benefits

text:
In article <ITSnetNOTcom#[email]>,
Virgil  <ITSnetNOTcom#[email]> wrote:

Yes!

And here's the cool part: people who don't understand these things
can still benefit from them.  They can even use them to post articles
to sci.math complaining about how useless modern math is!


author: Bookreader

subject: Re: Math: you don't need to understand it to reap the benefits

text:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 02:13:16 +0000 (UTC), [email] (John
Baez) wrote:

Did this post start somewhere other than sci.math?  This is the first
post in my thread, but it was quoted, so it must have started
somewhere.

I like to get the whole thread, if there is more.

Thanks.


author: Robert Vienneau

text:
I recently had an amusing discussion about Linear Programming with an
ignorant and dishonest ideologue, that is to say, an Internet kook:

On 22 August, Hunter Watson wrote:

HW> Yet Robert really is onto an interesting issue here, the
HW> demonstrated value, if any there be, of Marxist-Leninist doctrine
HW> as a historically predictive tool applicable to either economic or
HW> other societal subjects. In the Soviet Union there were legions of
HW> kept ideologists serving their Kremlin Palace masters like medieval
HW> divinationists, examining the dialectical tea leaves and poking
HW> through the entrails splattered about during top-down class
HW> struggle. They did their best down all those interminable decades
HW> to use Marx's "tool box" (haha) to look into the future and to
HW> assist in guidance of the ship of state.

On 23 August, I responded:

RLV> The Soviets indeed had a challenge. One interesting technique
RLV> that emerged is associated with the names Dantzig, Kantorovich,
RLV> Koopmans, Leontief, Sraffa, and von Neumann. In my latest journal
RLV> article, I draw on John Roemer's use of this technique for
RLV> economic theory.

On 24 August, Hunter Watson responded:

HW> Well, irrespective of the "interest" you feel which was it, a
HW> technique or a theory? A technique is a method of accomplishing
HW> a desired aim. A theory is the result of an analysis.

On 25 August, I responded:

RLV> What a bizarre comment. A sentence contains the words "technique"
RLV> and "theory" above. That does not imply the concepts are being
RLV> confused.
RLV>
RLV> And the technique I had in mind is certainly not of interest to
RLV> myself alone.

On 26 August, Hunter Watson responded:

HW> Provide us with an example of the use of "a technique for economic
HW> theory".
HW>
HW> You aren't alone in this a priori foolishness. It is a bit of a
HW> shame though that when the middle class can no longer afford to
HW> educate its children our university system can still pay salaries
HW> to men who peddle such nonsense for political reasons. A bit of a
HW> shame but a necessary evil I suppose.

So there you have a kook decrying the teaching of useful math, that is,
if one wants to pretend he is not merely engaging in ignorant and
meaningless bluster.


text:
Hunter Watson wrote:

RLV> The Soviets indeed had a challenge. One interesting technique
RLV> that emerged is associated with the names Dantzig, Kantorovich,
RLV> Koopmans, Leontief, Sraffa, and von Neumann. In my latest journal
RLV> article, I draw on John Roemer's use of this technique for
RLV> economic theory.

Correct. Watson's participation in a conversation, loosely defined,
following on the above paragraph was a matter of Watson "merely engaging
in ignorant and meaningless bluster."

It is typical of Watson to, as above, continually make up positions for
others. But what else can one expect from a knave?

It has been demonstrated to Watson several times that the above is
a mistaken characterization of _Capital_. It is typical of Watson
that he repeats demonstrated mistakes.

It has been pointed out to Watson many times that he just doesn't
understand the subject of Marx's writings. Marx did not write about
how to make a command economy work. I think I, myself, may have quoted
the following to Watson before:

  "Thus the Paris _Revue Positiviste_ reproaches me in that... I... -
  imagine - confine myself to the mere critical analysis of actual
  facts, instead of writing recipes (Comtist ones?) for the
  cookshops of the future."
    -- Karl Marx, "Preface to the Second Edition", _Capital_

It is typical of Watson to repeat mistakes again and again, no matter
how many times he has been shown to be mistaken.

It is typical of Watson to make up positions for others, as above.
But what else can one expect from a knave?

It is typical of Watson to continually start new thread topics, instead
of sticking to one.

It is typical of Watson to imagine he "won" after continually being
spanked. In Watson's defense, he doesn't understand what was being
discussed. So he cannot be expected to have a well-founded judgement
on those discussions.


text:
Hunter Watson wrote:

RLV> The Soviets indeed had a challenge. One interesting technique
RLV> that emerged is associated with the names Dantzig, Kantorovich,
RLV> Koopmans, Leontief, Sraffa, and von Neumann. In my latest journal
RLV> article, I draw on John Roemer's use of this technique for
RLV> economic theory.

My paragraph above, from the 23rd of August is about Linear
Programming, as other participants in the thread realized at once.
Watson responded with comments, for example, containing words about
this "technique" and acknowledging that Linear Programming is
certainly not of interest to myself alone. His acknowledgement was:

HW> You aren't alone in this a priori foolishness. It is a bit of a
HW> shame though that when the middle class can no longer afford to
HW> educate its children our university system can still pay salaries
HW> to men who peddle such nonsense for political reasons. A bit of a
HW> shame but a necessary evil I suppose.

If one wanted to pretend that Watson said what he meant and meant
what he said, the above would be an instance of "a kook decrying the
teaching of useful math." But really, the above is Watson "merely
engaging in ignorant and meaningless bluster," as I said.

Watson actually agrees: "my conversations with Robert were never...
about linear programming."

It is typical of Watson to generate such ignorant non sequiturs.

It is typical of Watson not to recognize that a statement has
been supported.

Once again, Watson has acknowledged that his comment below is
not about Linear Programming:

RLV> ...One interesting technique that
RLV> emerged is associated with the names Dantzig, Kantorovich...

RLV> And the technique I had in mind is certainly not of interest to
RLV> myself alone.

HW> You aren't alone in this a priori foolishness.

But, if it weren't ignorant and meaningless bluster, Watson's
comment above would have to be about Linear Programming. Notice that
Watson has offered no other explanation.

But Watson does go on and on with nonsense:

I guess Watson hasn't learnt that conclusions *follow* facts
and argument. And I guess he figures it does justice to his
readers to float naked, ad hominem conclusions as if they were
fact. But what else can one expect from a knave?


text:
Let's review. Virgil mentioned some math useful in economic planning of
some extent:

Virgil> Linear programming, which was developed during my lifetime, is
Virgil> essential for efficient decisions in many areas. Loss of it
Virgil> would cripple the world's economy.

I think amusing a coversation I had last August with Hunter Watson,
well-known as a knave and an Internet kook. Here's an extract from
that conversation:

RLV> The Soviets indeed had a challenge. One interesting technique
RLV> that emerged is associated with the names Dantzig, Kantorovich,
RLV> Koopmans, Leontief...

HW> Well, irrespective of the "interest" you feel...

RLV> ...the technique I had in mind is certainly not of interest
RLV> to myself alone.

HW> You aren't alone in this a priori foolishness. It is a bit of
HW> a shame though that when the middle class can no longer afford
HW> to educate its children our university system can still pay
HW> salaries to men who peddle such nonsense for political reasons.
HW> A bit of a shame but a necessary evil I suppose.

If Watson was not knavishly engaging in ignorant and meaningless
bluster, Watson would above be decrying the teaching of useful
math.

Watson has acknowledged that he was not discussing Linear
Programming, the subject of the bit of my conversation extracted
above. Today he is pretending that his respond was a sequitor
and that its point was as follows:

In the midst of lies, off-topic nonsense, and unsupported conclusions -
Watson's nonsense about Bohm Bawerk is particularly ignorant - Watson
goes on and on about something or other:

Anybody reading along can only wonder what my expression of an interest
in Linear Programming has to do with "validat[ing] Marx's version of the
labour theory of value". I suppose Watson is whining about my work on
these pages:

  <http://www.dreamscape.com/rvien/Economics/Essays/LTV-FAQ.html>

  <http://www.dreamscape.com/rvien/Economics/Essays/sraffa.html>

and my three essays off of:

  <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=457402>

Anybody that actually takes the time to read that material might
wonder where Watson actually makes an argument directed towards
any of that material. And they might still wonder where I connect
Linear Programming up to "the task of proving the validity of the
LTV", either "in Das Kapital" or not. The answer to both questions
is nowhere. (Caveat: some might realize there are allusions to
Linear Programming in my LTV FAQ.)

If anybody actually really wonders "What relevance has linear
programing to Das Kapital's analysis of social relations in
1860s Europe?", I recommend a look at some of my references.
In particular, the following use Linear Programming in
investigating certain conceptualizations of Marx's theory of
value:

  Michio Morishima, _Marx's Economics: A Dual Theory of Value_,
  Cambridge University Press, 1973.

  Ian Steedman, _Marx after Sraffa_, NLB, 1977.

  John Roemer, _Analytical Foundations of Marxian Economic Theory_,
  Cambridge University Press, 1981.


author: Larry Gagnon

subject: Voltage multiplier circuit with dual rail PS??

text:
I have a  homemade dual rail, 5-15 volt DC, 1A power supply, using
LM317 and LM337 voltage regulators and precision resistors to set
5,8,12 or 15 volts from a multi-gang switch. The transformer in the PS
is a 240v primary, 35vct secondary. Now that I have moved to North
America with only 117vac the transformer does not give me enough input
voltage to get beyond the regulated 8 volts.

Other than replacing that internal transformer or adding an outboard
120-240v transformer I was wondering about adding a voltage multiplier
circuit (voltage doubler) by replacing the full wave diode bridge with
two half-wave rectifier circuits in series, on each leg of the
transformer's secondary. Would that work? I realize I would get no
more power and I would have to increase the filter capacitors sizes.
Any ideas or suggestions appreciated.

Larry Gagnon
*********************
to send direct email remove "fake" from address


author: Terry

subject: Re: Voltage multiplier circuit with dual rail PS??

text:
Larry Gagnon wrote:

Larry I think that's correct. If you draw the bridge rectifier
part of the circuit as a diamond (a square standing on its tip at
the bottom) then erase tthe two bottom rectifiers and substitute
capacitors in their place you have IIRC a voltage doubler. I
think you'd need fairly big capacitors also, but inrush current
with todays low forward resistance rectifiers is, I gather, an
issue. So a small amount of resistance in series with each
rectifier?
Cheers.
PS. I did the same thing; i.e. UK to North America in 1956! Still
use a bloo** great step up transformer to operate my 1953 230
volt Wolf drill. Drill now almost 50 years old; works fine. All
valves (tubes) back then; transistors had just been invented!


author: jeff legere

text:
seems like the voltage mutiplier circuits cannot handle much current at all.
see http://www.phys.ualberta.ca/~gingrich/phys395/notes/node68.html

"Larry Gagnon" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Nick Pine

subject: Re: Solar Pool Heating

text:
Andrew McKegney <[email]> drones on:

I hereby acknowledge that commercially available pool heating products are
too expensive, and the charlatans who sell them ignore pool insulation.

Good idea. Now suppose you are a dermatologist. A patient comes in to your
office who has just been run over by a car, and he is bleeding profusely from
his missing arm. He asks for help with his itchy scalp. What do you do?

Pat him on the back, give him a prescription for some ointment, and
send him on his way? Is that professional? I know, I know, what can
you do if people do not want or will not accept the right kind of help?
You tell them what they need, and they ignore you. So maybe you end up
thinking they don't really need what you think they need, or that what
you have to sell today is really what they need, which is not true.

HVAC criminals act the same way.

This needs more common sense, leadership and education, along with a bigger
picture, less specialization, and more high-school physics and arithmetic.

Sure. That's obvious. What should also be obvious, but isn't, is that pools
need more insulation, somehow. New pools built differently, retrofits, truly
effective thermal covers, structures to enclose pools, etc. It seems foolish
to attach expensive pool heaters to such miserably-insulated pools, from an
engineering point of view. If pools were better insulated, it would seem less
foolish to use existing pool heaters, and fewer square feet of them. You
might call this a rational engineering point of view. Not necessarily how
everyone else thinks.

Another reason to avoid using expensive pool heaters is that energy is so
cheap in this country. But making an inexpensive plastic film pool heater
on a roof seems OK, from that point of view. A square foot of ANY sort of
solar collector can only collect the heat equivalent of a gallon or two
of oil per year, so if oil and gas are cheap, solar collectors need to be
cheap to compete with them economically, no? Or, they need to serve more
than one purpose, like a transparent roof or transparent siding for a house,
since houses need roofs and siding anyway, or a sunspace that adds some
daytime floorspace and storage space and perhaps a place to grow things
to a house. Or a place to put a hot tub or a swimming pool.

Yeah, let's see that, Andy :-)

Drain the system back into the pool at night.

Sounds good to me, but is that necessary? Many homeowners mow lawns, paint,
clean out gutters, wash dishes, mop floors, etc. (not me of course.)

Chacun a ses ordures. But how do you know what this will look like?
It ain't been designed yet. Architects and others have ways of making
lots of things look pretty, and there are many different architectural
forms with equivalent engineering performance.

Let's see. Perhaps you would say that a black roof is not inherently ugly.
Putting a layer of clear plastic over that doesn't change the appearance
much. Now we seem to be talking about how to keep the clear plastic from
flapping in the wind, right? If you were a piece of plastic film, lying flat
on a roof, with another flat piece of plastic right underneath, and you were
recently wet underneath, would you want to flap in the wind? Maybe.

What would keep you from doing so? Vacuum? The wet adhesive force?
Seems worth a try. Perhaps we are overcomplicating this. I think there
are lots of ways to solve this problem, some being more aesthetically-
acceptable than others. And why such emphasis on aesthetics, anyhow?
Iraquis are dying because of the way we use energy in this country.

I'd love to, but I don't have a pool, and I'm not in that business. You are.

I disagree. I think this business is fucked-up.

Too bad people don't follow your recommendation, huh?

I don't think it would take millions. I think it might take 2 weeks,
depending on what you mean by "it." And I think people would happily
buy "it" if "it" were reasonably priced and performed well, and you
put "it" in an alternative energy catalog like Jade Mountain's
([email].) Or sold kits to Home Depot.

What is an easy solution?

Is it easy to put a $900 30' wide x 48' long plastic film greenhouse over an
existing pool, and hinge a 300 pound 24' x 36' cover made with $300 worth of
beadboard and 2x4's to a pipe along the 36' north edge, and haul the cover up
to a 45 degree angle automatically with a $200 DC winch when the sun shines
and the pool needs heat, in December? I think so. Should the south glazing
be translucent polyethylene film that needs recycling every 3-5 years, at a
cost of $60, or very clear single layer polycarbonate that lasts for 20 or 30
years, and costs $1000? Should people grow food and flowers and sit outside
next to their swimming pools in December? Would the second one of these things
be cheaper or easier to build? I think so, the 10th? I think so. How many
people would like to own one? How will we know until we build one? You say
you know already, but people don't have choices like these now.

I'm suggesting that some of what you "know" is not true.
And I am not presently institutionalized :-)

I wonder what you mean by that. How do you ingore a fact?
That might work better than these discussions...

Yes, during the daytime. Altho something more vertical would work a lot better
in wintertime. But we need something that is a lot more insulating at night.

OK. Give me some numbers. How much heat does a swimming pool need?

You may have hit on the problem here.

OK. What do we do about that? Make solar heaters with rooftop plastic films,
ie make them cheaper? Add value to the _system_, by making it possible to
swim all year? Reduce the cost with a more balanced _system_, with more
insulation and less solar heating?

True, in the usual sense. But why are they blue?
They would let in more sun if they were clear.

Untrue. Should I add some exclamation points!!! ? :-)

Me too. And should professionals lie? And should they know
the basic science of their profession, or just sell things?

Absolutely.

You mean, like, this afternoon....?

I would if I had a swimming pool, perhaps this afternoon. Maybe I should
put one up in my attic. No, too heavy... It's 100.6 F up there now, and
47.7 F outside. I'm thinking of closing some attic windows.

I don't know the answer to that question. I suspect they are being used for
some swimming pool heating applications now. Chlorine compatibility may be a
problem. A heat exchanger might be needed with an EPDM collector, but that's
probably not a big deal. Run a few $4 solid PVC pipes around the pool maybe.
Or make a concentric tube heat exchanger out of some of the plumbing. Do
SolaRoll collectors degrade from pool chlorine? Is that why they wear out?
We might use oxygenation, or Aqua-Air's silver-copper ion system to reduce
or eliminate chlorine. Environmentalists and fish don't like chlorine.

Sven is now definitely out of that business, and mostly building water tanks
for fire protection systems now. But many of those several thousand solar
heating systems are still in use at hotels and laundrys and so on. He aimed
at commercial and industrial installations, some of them having thousands of
square feet of collectors. In his system, the EPDM rubber needed replacing
every 7 or 8 years, because it was a trickle-down system rather than filled
with water, with dry hot spots. That also meant he needed more water flow than
normally needed, I think. And I suppose there were stagnation problems in some
installations. He didn't intall these systems on roofs with a pitch more than
1:1 either, as I recall. He said he aimed at businesses than homeowners
because businesses were used to the idea of maintenance, and didn't mind
replacing the rubber every so often, but homeowners expected systems to last
at least 20 years, and didn't want to do any maintenance at all. Does that
make sense? I'm sure it does to you.

I just tried to call Sven, and got his answering machine. Perhaps you'd
like to talk with him:

Sven Tjernagel Solar Systems
477 Woodcrest Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
(717) 761-5858, -8951 fax

He's an interesting and practical person who knows a lot about solar heating,
including radiant floor heating and hot air distribution with duct heat
exchangers. Good practical stuff. But like many people who really know how
to do solar heating, he's out of that business. He site-built heat storage
tanks with EPDM rubber liners inside plywood boxes until UL stopped approving
site-built tanks (will CSA accept them?), then switched to a nicer design,
something like a tall circular sheet metal swimming pool, lined with foam
and EPDM. He stopped installing unpressurized hot water tanks upstairs when
people complained about "rats in the walls," ie hot water cavitation in
the vertical pipes...

I wonder how long you will parrot back this status-quo defense.

Sure.

Not if they are not practical solar solutions.

Just now, huh?

OK. Go ahead. Conclude.

Not exactly. Not even close, actually.

I wouldn't say that at all. Would they were moreso.

Interesting. Why not, exactly?

Now why is that... Could it be that pool companies know that solar heating
their existing pools is foolish? Unlike your customers, after you have
handcuffed them to chairs and given them your professional advice?

OK for the moment. But I think that might change, with a few good examples.

That might be improved a lot with aeration, a fountain here or a waterfall
there, and by letting some water flow through the pool, if heating water or
water itself were not so expensive. One might use rain, for hot tubs, and
5 parts per _billion_ of copper ion in water will stop algae. Throw some
pennies in the filter?

I think this can change, if a few people do things right.

Right.

I think you may be defining the problem too narrowly here, but perhaps we
need to do more figuring out. Tiny cold bubbles are excellent insulators.
Greenhouse people have been experimenting with them since 1975, and they
have a harder task than swimming pool coverers. Can we have bubbles on top
of the water itself, somehow, under a plastic film to stop evaporation?
Polyethylene macrospheres that are filtered out when we want to swim?

How about just deflating a polyethylene film pillow full of tiny soap bubbles
before swimming, pumping it out and letting it sink to the bottom? Or doing
that with a weighted neutrally-bouyant Styrofoam cover, by making it slightly
heavier than the pool, and lowering it with a few ropes or letting some water
fill a few cavities rather than air? This is not rocket science.

I think you may be defining the problem too narrowly here.
Many end-users would be delighted to swim in December.....

Awww... Too bad... Poor Andy...

And all this is for what? Another month or so of pool use?

Especially when bamboozled by "professionals."

How about for December swimming, or a nice warm place to sit outdoors
during the day, or to grow food or flowers?

I know, I know, they should buy your solar pool covers and heaters.

Forever and ever, unchanging unto the last syllable of recorded time...

I do too. But we look for easy victories, right? Like drunks who look for
wallets under lamposts at night, because there is not so dark there.

No argument there, and fusion is very far away. But it's also a crime
to push pool heaters when what people need is pool insulation.

Perhaps because in your world, nothing  ever  changes.

Ah yes, those nice shiny expensive bailing buckets for bottomless boats,
installed by crack solar professionals. "Here you are M'am. We are so happy
to meet your pool heating needs."

Almost as short as the payback for closing the windows of a house
in December, vs buying more gas to heat it...

I don't either.

Okokok. I won't say another word about your spelling.
I will let this aspect of your professioalism speak for itself.

No. Now would you like to talk about solar arithmetic? :-)

Nick


author: Jeff Terracciano

subject: Re: Solar Pool Heating

text:
As a PE and a pool owner, I can't believe someone with any sense would
consider heating a pool with anything but a solar system.  The energy,
maintenance, and environmental cost are just to high.

If you can't afford the capital for a heater, then buy a wet-suit.


author: Andrew McKegney

subject: Re: Solar Pool Heating

text:
[email] (Nick Pine) wrote:

96:10:07

I can see that this is a complete waste of my time. You are not
interested in providing people with information about practical (read
currently available) solar systems. You only wish to promote you're
untried & unproven concepts (using plastic films for everything) as
being better than everything else.

You have completely ignored the fact that solar companies do not
design, sell or install swimming pools. You have no comprehension of
the swimming pool marketplace. Yet, you feel you can speak with
authority about solar pool heating in the real world!

You've never owned a pool, you've never built a solar pool heater,
you've acknowledged you are ignorant of the practicalities of
operating a pool. Yet, you feel you can advise pool owners.

You seem to think that you can pull some formulae from a text and
figure out what can be done in the real world. Your ideas are not
inovative, they are ill-conceived. You have no grasp of the real
limitations of working with pools, pool owners, or for that matter
pool-owners' houses.

People within the pool industry are constantly inventing and marketing
new products. These are people who know the limitations and are trying
to stretch them. Yes, eventually, there may come a time when an R-10
pool blanket is a real, marketable, item. But as I said, it's not
likely to be in my lifetime.

To wildly proclaim that people should't heat their pools with
manuafactured solar products because they should be saving heat in
their pools by using NON-EXISTANT R-10 pool covers is stupid.

Solar pool heating is the most cost-effective type of solar in North
America. It has the potential to save millions of dollars worth of
energy per year, and prevent the creation of millions of tons of
pollution per year. Intead of promoting it you want to spit on it
because YOU feel that it's too expensive.

The market decides what is too expensive. A two to three payback is
very reasonable. If you have a better ,cheaper, product bring it to
the market, it would be welcome by both consumers and dealers.

To conclude, put-up or shut-up.

Respectfully

Andrew McKegney C.E.T.
President. Solar Evaluation Services Inc.
20 year member Solar Energy Society of Canada Inc.
Past Member International Solar Energy Society
Member National Spa & Pool Institute of Canada
Member Canadian Solar Industries Association


author: Will Stewart

subject: Re: Solar Pool Heating

text:
Nick Pine wrote:

Then time's a-wastin'!  Get your product prototyped and then
mass-produced, then you will make a fortune and you won't have to bore
us with these pointless arguments about the cheapest possible pool
heaters.  People with pools aren't normally interested in old tires and
boards holding down massive sheets of plastic on their roofs.

I surprised you haven't championed earthships, yet.

Typical.


subject: Re: Solar Pool Heating

text:
The sea is potentially a source of vast amounts of electrical energy,
     as well as haddock. Scientists predict that some day, possibly as early
     as next week, whole cities will be powered by the sea. The key will be
     gigantic undersea electric turbines, whose blades will be turned by
     the relentless, powerful motion of lobsters walking along the sea bed.
     If you live near the sea and own a gigantic electric turbine, you can
     harness this power today. The trick is to make sure your turbine is
     parallel with the prevailing lobster motion.

         from _The Taming of the Screw: Several Million Homeowners'
	       Problems Sidestepped_, by Dave Barry

Moving from the Ludicrous to the Impractical...

We might try a smaller version of this first, with some EPDM rubber draped
over some strawbales inside a quonset-hut-like structure, or more easily
recyclable haybales, if we are surrounded by horses, which (the bales) are
about 3' long and 16" square. Stack up 24 of them like this in 3 layers of 8
to make a 56" square x 4' deep hot tub, 88" square on the outside?

             ~12'                  We would need
..............................        a 16'x16' piece of vinyl or EPDM rubber
.              .             .        24 bales
.              .             .        12'x50' greenhouse UV poly film
.              .             .        6 12' pressure treated 2x4s
. . . . .  b a l e  b a l e b         2 4x8 sheets of 2" Styrofoam
.         b    .             a        20 12' 1x3s
.         a    .             l ~12'   some screws and bolts
.         l    .hot tub      e        a pulley
. . . . . e . . . . . . . .  b        some rope
.         b    .             a        etc
.         a    .             l
.         l    .             e
......... e  b a l e  b a l e

               .
          .    c    .                 The cover, shown in the raised position
       .          c    .              might be painted white on the bottom.
    .                c   .    ~10'    It might be 8'x8'x2" thick, weighing
  .                     c  .          20 pounds, and it might be lifted
 .                         c.         with a small 12 VDC reversible motor,
.         b floating bubble  b        eg a used windshield wiper motor,
.         a  pack cover...   a        especially if it had a counterweight,
.         l                  l        to collect sun or keep some plants
..........e..................e        from freezing at night, automatically.

How much sideways water load do the bales have to hold in, at the bottom?
A foot of water weighs 0.43 psi, so the wall of the tub, 2' deep on average,
pushes sideways at 0.86 psi, so if the sides are held in every foot along
the perimeter of the tub, each tie has to hold 12"x48"x0.86 = 500 pounds.
Some ground stakes and/or tensioned 1/4" dacron rope every foot, running
across the bottom, holding together the pressure-treated 2x4 frame flat on
the ground that surrounds the bales and some 1x3s on edge every 2', tucked
inside a flat 1x3 frame at the top of the tub?

I've built curved half-bows like these with 2 12' 1x3s bent into an 8' radius,
held together with deck screws and 1x3 spacer blocks, purlins or ridgepole,
every 2'. A little chicken wire or stucco mesh on each side of the spacer
blocks would keep them from slipping and make the bows stronger.

On an average December day, where I live, about 10'x12'x900 = 108K Btu of sun
would fall into this structure, about one gallon of oil's worth, or 30% more
with a shallow frozen reflecting pool to the south, made from another piece
of EPDM rubber draped over a perimeter earth berm. One layer of poly film
has an R-value of about 0.8, and there's about 500 ft^2 of it here, so the
average daytime winter air temperature inside the structure might be about
43 F + 108K/(6hrx500ft^2/R0.8) = 72 F.

If the bubble pack pool cover transmits 80% of the sun into the water, and
the white paint under the rigid cover reflects another 80%, we might have
16 ft^2 x 900 Btu x 0.8 x 0.8 = 9K Btu falling into the hot tub on an average
6 hour day, with 6 x (T-72) x 16 ft^2/R1 Btu leaking out, for a water temp
T of about 72 + 9K/(6x16) = 166 F. Heh.

The tub would hold about 76 cubic feet of water, weighing about 5000 lb,
and all buttoned up, with about 100 ft^2 of R50 sides and 50 ft^2 of R10
cover, starting at 110 F, it might lose about 24(110-36)(2+5) = 12K Btu
on an average cloudy day, cooling to 110-12K/5K = 108 F.

It would be nice if the structure leaked a bit, with most of the rainwater
from the "roof" ending up in the flower bed in the front, and some of it
flowing through the hot tub to end up there as well.

Or... suppose the cover and heater were the same, like a "solar pool cover,"
during the daytime, but a lot more insulating at night. This hot tub inside
the enclosure would want the north poly film painted white, to reflect more
sun down into the tub.

How much heat does a swimming pool need? Most of the loss is through the
cover. A 24x36' pool with an R10 cover might need 24(76F-36F)24x36/R10
= 83K Btu/day of solar heat in December where I live, the amount of sun that
falls on 83 ft^2 of vertical surface or 160 ft^2 of horizontal surface,
less than 20% of the pool cover area.

How about just deflating a polyethylene film pillow full of tiny soap bubbles
before swimming, pumping it out and letting it sink to the bottom?

Like this?                    poly pillow
                          rr   .   .   .   rr   pool rim
   air pump===hose====>   .                 .
                               . water .  <-- floating screen on a soapy water
                          s        .        s          puddle in the bottom
                          s    detail A     s          of the poly pillow
                          s                 s
			  s                 s   pool sides
			     bottom of pool                 ^  ^  s is some
                                                            |  |  window
Perhaps 3 modes, for a swimming pool?                bubbles|  |  screen
                                                            |2"|
      day: pillow full of air                       F s s s hose s s s Float
      night: pillow full of bubbles      detail A:       soapy water
      swimming: pillow on the bottom.               bottom of poly pillow

For the hot tub, it seems simpler to do this with a Styrofoam cover, making
it slightly heavier than the water, and lowering it by letting some water
fill a few cavities rather than air. Assuming it's 4' square inside, to make
the numbers easier, the 16 ft^2 x 2" thick Styrofoam weighs little, and
displaces about 10 pounds of water per square foot when submerged. Concrete
and stone weigh about 150 lb/ft^2 in air, or 86 lb/ft^3 when submerged. So
we need about 10/86x12" = 1.4" of concrete or stone or gravel or something
on top of the Styrofoam cover to hold it underwater. Lay some polypropylene
twine down on the cover, recycled from haybales, and place 1.4" of concrete
on top of it? Or glue a 2" thick x 4" wide Styrofoam edge around the top,
and pour some round pebbles on top? To collect sun effectively in this case,
we need a single layer of clear plastic film on top of the hot tub, to
prevent evaporation loss with the cover submerged.

We might have 16' of 6" poly duct (eg unvented V4-6 at 22 cents per linear
foot from D & L Growers at (800) 732-3509) around the perimeter, underneath,
heat-sealed at the ends, so we can float the cover by slightly inflating the
tubing at night, with an aquarium pump. Allowing a little air to escape
underwater would probably keep the tub cleaner. Hmmm. Tropical fish?

We might use 4x8 cover modules for a full-sized pool, with 12" poly duct
underneath, inflated to 4" depth, and attach them together so these tippy
boats could support people on "pool patios," which might be fun, at parties.

Nick


author: Archimedes Plutonium

subject:
superlatives of Volcano-Electricity #47 Volcano-Electricity: Earth's
	Energy Future

text:
I have looked through the literature and find no-one stating the
obvious facts about Geothermal. Everyone
knows geothermal exists, but no-one has realized until
now that it is the key to the future.

We do have an energy that is able to replace all the oil
and coal industry in the form of radioactive fission energy of nuclear
energy. Trouble with it is that it is not
renewable and poses a health risk of radioactive waste
materials.

But there is one source of energy that is clean, unlimited and
renewable and more reliable than even the Sun. It is geothermal and we
have only begun to
tap into it.

To seriously tap into it, we would tap into volcanoes since the heat
of the Earth's center is nearby these
volcanoes and we do not have to drill far down.

So I am probably the first person to recognize that the
future of humanity for its energy will be based on
a global geothermal tapping into volcanoes and geothermals.


author: Last Post

subject:
Re: superlatives of Volcano-Electricity #47 Volcano-Electricity:
	Earth's Energy Future

text:
On Dec 27, 1:59 am, Archimedes Plutonium
<[email]> wrote:

• I have just one question —— How do you propose to
     control this?? A geothermal project in California was
     scrapped because it became dangerously close to a
      fault. Vulcanism scientists have been watching Mt St
      Helens and two connected volcanos. If if she goes will
      the others go too? If you drill into anyone of the three
      will it cause a triple eruption?

       No sonny boy, your idea sounds good but does not
       pass the smell test.

    — —
 | In real science the burden of proof is always
 | on the proposer, never on the sceptics. So far
 | neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
 | iota of valid data for global warming nor have
 | they provided data that climate change is being
 | effected by commerce and industry, and not by
 | natural phenomena


subject:
Re: superlatives of Volcano-Electricity #50 Volcano-Electricity:
	Earth's Energy Future

text:
Last Post wrote:

When no electric power stations were used on Pinatubo and none on
Mount St. Helens
then they were sure to erupt when they erupted.

On the other hand, if thousands of portable Volcano Electric Stations
had been used
on both Pinatubo and on Mount St. Helens, both would have likely not
erupted.

Humanity is moving in the direction to where humanity completely
controls volcanoes
so that they never erupt and their energy of heat is daily siphoned
off by the installation
of thousands of portable Electric Generator Power Stations.

Hawaii is one of the easiest volcanoes to tap into. Yellowstone is
easy.

Pinatubo is more difficult. Mount Kilimanjaro is more difficult.

The future course of humanity and its energy needs is the course where
we
eventually obtain nearly 100% of our energy needs from geothermal/
Volcano-Electricity

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


subject:
surprise-- world electricity consumption equals two volcano lava
	magma #51 Volcano-Electricity: Earth's Energy Future

text:
I was curious to see what the world energy consumption of electricity
was for 2008
and to compare that raw data with the energy of heat released by one
major eruption
of Hawaii magma.

--- quoting Wikipedia on 2008 global electricity use ---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption

In 2008, total worldwide energy consumption was 474 exajoules
(5×10^20 J) with 80 to 90 percent derived from the combustion of
fossil fuels.[1] This is equivalent to an average power consumption
rate of 15 terawatts (1.504×10^13 W). Not all of the world's economies
track their energy consumption with the same rigor, and the exact
energy content of a barrel of oil or a ton of coal will vary with
quality.

--- end quoting Wikipedia ---

--- quoting Nature on volcano eruptions ---

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v288/n5788/abs/288253a0.html

Nature 288, 253 - 255 (20 November 1980); doi:10.1038/288253a0

For part of their historic records, nine of the most active volcanoes
on Earth have each erupted magma at a nearly constant rate. These
output rates are very similar and range from 0.69 to 0.26 m3 s-1. The
volcanoes discussed here—Kilauea, Mauna Loa, Fuego, Santiaguito,
Nyamuragira, Hekla, Piton de la Fournaise, Vesuvius and Etna—represent
almost the whole spectrum of plate tectonic settings of volcanism. A
common mechanism of buoyantly rising magma-filled cracks in the upper
crust may contribute to the observed restricted range of the rates of
output.

--- end quoting Nature ---

Although Nature does not reveal what the average release in joules of
heat energy of an
average eruption, others have made a rough estimate of that amount.

Roughly the heat energy in joules of a Hawaii major lava flow is on
the order of 3 x 10^20
joules of heat.

So that human civilization needs roughly 5 x 10^20 joules of
electricity for the entire year of
2008, and one volcanoes lava magma has 3 x 10^20 joules of energy.

So that if we were to harness Hawaii, Pinatubo, Yellowstone, Etna,
Kilimanjaro and a few others, then humanity would have 100X more
electricity to use from a clean renewable
sources.

So one can easily see why I say that geothermal/Volcano is the only
renewable energy
source that can make the entire fossil fuels of oil and coal obsolete.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


author: [redacted]

subject:
Re: surprise-- world electricity consumption equals two volcano lava
	magma #51 Volcano-Electricity: Earth's Energy Future

text:
On Jan 1, 10:40 pm, Archimedes Plutonium
<[email]> wrote:

• I doubt that there is a volcano that you could
     actually tap for energy, not even yellowstone
     If you put a tap on Yellowstone it  would blow
     it sky high.

• California stopped an huge geothermal
     project because it was too close to a major fault.


text:
On Dec 29 2009, 3:00 pm, Archimedes Plutonium
<[email]> wrote:

 • I have just one question —— How do you propose to
      control this?? A geothermal project in California was
      scrapped because it became dangerously close to a
      fault. Vulcanism scientists have been watching Mt St
      Helens and two connected volcanos. If if she goes will
      the others go too? If you drill into anyone of the three
      will it cause a triple eruption?

[much stupid nonsense snipped

• Coal, crude, and natural gas are the only clean
     energy sources that are increasingly available,
     and economically viable.

• What makes crude and coal affordable are their
     biproducts, steel, lubricants,all plastics, some
     pharmaceuticals, even  rubber (tires) etc.

• Just remember that CO2 is essential for all life
    on the planet

    — —
 | In real science the burden of proof is always
 | on the proposer, never on the sceptics. So far
 | neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
 | iota of valid data for global warming nor have
 | they provided data that climate change is being
 | effected by commerce and industry, and not by
 | natural phenomena


author: Surfer

subject: Re: superlatives of Volcano-Electricity #47 Volcano-Electricity: Earth's  Energy Future

text:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:59:07 -0800 (PST), Archimedes Plutonium
<[email]> wrote:

Australian Geothermal Energy Association Inc
http://www.agea.org.au/

"......2009 Australian Geothermal Energy Conference was held in
Brisbane at the Hilton Hotel from 10 - 13 November 2009.
There were 431 registrations....."

".....Geothermal energy was a big winner from the Renewable Energy
Demonstration Program, with two projects worth approximately $535
million receiving Australian Government funding of more than $150
million....."

http://www.agea.org.au/membership/members/


text:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:59:07 -0800 (PST), Archimedes Plutonium
<[email]> wrote:

Geothermal Technologies Program (USA)
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/

".....DOE Awards $338 Million to Accelerate Domestic Geothermal
Energy..."

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/projects/


text:
Surfer wrote:

Interesting, I did not know Australia had any geothermals to tap into,
except for
its neighbor of New Zealand. Perhaps Tasmania has some geothermals.


subject:
Re: superlatives of Volcano-Electricity #48 Volcano-Electricity:
	Earth's Energy Future

text:
Surfer wrote:

I think the DOE should reorganize their vision and spending on
geothermals and to
include volcanoes.

I think the above is far too paltry of a money investment in research
and it is not
spearheaded by one individual scientist, which it should be. So that
the science
can make vast progress.

Geothermals and Volcano-Electricity is the only renewable with the
potential to make
the entire coal and oil industry obsolete.

If the Mount St. Helens before 1980 had several electric power
stations in operation, or
Pinatubo in Philippines had several power stations in operation before
1990, it is likely
that the eruptions would not have occurred. And think of all that
electricity that could have
been harnessed and still be harnessed.

So in the future of Earth, if we could come back say in year 2309, I
bet every volcano and
geothermal on Earth will have numerous electric-power-stations driving
all the energy needs
of the entire planet of its human civilization. And the only reason to
dig up coal or oil is to make some plastic or chemical products for
use other than transportation. The air in 2309 will
be crystal clear and have more oxygen content than any previous period
of human history.

So why is the DOE not mustering a scientific conference to push
forward at full speed--
geothermal and volcano electricity for it is the only real big energy
to tapp into and renewable.

Once a country taps into a volcano, then all the other countries will
be "full speed ahead".

China and India have abundant volcanoes to tapp into. So does Europe
with those Italian
volcanoes.

Solar and wind and hydroelectric are all good sources, but none of
them can make coal and
oil obsolete. Only Geothermal/Volcano can make coal and oil obsolete.

How much energy was spewn into the air with Mt. St. Helens or
Pinatubo? Probably enough
energy that could have supplied the world with electricity for
decades.

Probably Yellowstone alone can furnish all the electricity needs of
the USA lower 48.

How about spending 10 billion dollars on building a Yellowstone
electric station and with the
electricity furnish every American home with cheap electricity bills.
And we still can save
Yellowstone as a National Park, even make it bigger and more
protected. So that Yellowstone
gives back to the American people in electricity and a clean air that
few Americans have
ever breathed. That would be a "first" for a National Park, in that
the Yellowstone National Park saves the American people, whereas up to
now, the American people have saved
Yellowstone National Park.

So why be so chincy and cheap with geothermals? It is clear that
geothermals are the only
renewable that can make coal and oil obsolete. So let us be brave and
smart and set up a
national priority of geothermal/Volcano-electricity.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
 whole entire Universe is just one big atom
 where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


subject:
pumping saltwater into volcano-electric power station #49
	Volcano-Electricity: Earth's Energy Future

text:
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
(snipped)

In the above, obviously I have not computed or in any way made some
reasonable
calculation as to whether we can tame a volcano like Pinatubo from
ever erupting
by having electric power stations drawing off heat to make electricity
and thus
preventing the Volcano from exploding. It seems to me that such a
scheme is
possible and thus taming a volcano.

Now I am always looking for why Earth has so much salt water and what
use can
all that salt have for us.

I wonder if we pump saltwater into a volcano such as Pinatubo or
Mt.St.Helens before
it had erupted whether the steam and the salt would have separated out
in the process
and whether the salt would have thus remained behind in the depths of
the volcano.
So that the salt would have aided in cooling the volcano and
increasing the world's
fresh water supply as a added bonus?

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


author: Ian Staples

subject: Andean Nunas or "Popping beans"

text:
A recent issue of _CIAT International_ (Vol. 12 No. 1, June 1993, Pp. 5-6)
had an article by Loretta Ferguson on "nunas" [with one of those Spanish
"~" things over both the "n"s].

Seems nunas are the legume equivalent of popcorn.  They are only known
from the high Andes.  Attempts to grow them elsewhere (e.g. at 1700 m
at Popayan in Colombia) have not been very successful.

Nunas are alleged to pre-date the Inca Empire and may be the "original"
bean.  The rationale for their development and use by these people in
the high mountains is that fuel is very scarce in such regions and normal
beans require *hours* of cooking to be edible because of the temperature
depression of boiling water at high altitudes [low pressure].  "But a
few minutes frying will pop the nunas." according to Dr Julia Kornegay,
the bean breeder at CIAT quoted in the article.

The Andean Indians eat them as a snack, side dish, or in soups.  Kornegay
says "Nunas have a lot of starch so their flavo[u]r is flat, dry and
powdery.  But popped nunas are soft and taste like a mix of peanuts
and popcorn."  They can be popped in the microwave too, it seems.

Questions:

1.  Are nunas simply a variety of _Phaseolus vulgaris_?  (If not, what
    are they?)  [Maybe the folk at CIAT think *all* beans are _P. vulgaris_,
    the article certainly didn't disclose the Latin binomial.]

2.  Has anyone tried them?  Are they *really* edible??  If you've tried
    them, would you eat them again?  Would you look for them in order
    to eat them again?

Any knowledge/experience of them out there?

Cheers,  Ian S.

P.S.  Note Followup-To: rec.food.cooking


author: Beverly Erlebacher

subject: Re: Andean Nunas or "Popping beans"

text:
In article <[email]>,
Ian Staples <[email]> wrote:

The problem with popbeans (which are, indeed, P. vulgaris) is that
they are so sensitive to daylength that it is essentially impossible
to grow them outdoors outside their favored (tropical) latitudes.

Another kind of popbean is the chickpea (garbanzo, ceci bean, Cicer
spp.).  People in Afghanistan and at other high altitude locations
in Central Asia have developed 'pop' varieties of chickpea, which
are supposed to be very good and much easier to grow.

Popbeans, especially the chickpea sort, are described in the new book
"Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties" by Carol Deppe.  She has been
interested in chickpeas, poppable and otherwise, for some time, and has
been testing many varieties from the USDA Germplasm Repository for traits
like poppability, speed of cooking, ability to winter over in her climate
(Oregon), culinary uses, etc.  She has written a manual for people
interested in participating in this project. The address is in the book,
which I don't have with me right now.

Beverly Erlebacher
Toronto, Ontario Canada


author: Jeffrey A. Del Col

subject: Re: Andean Nunas or "Popping beans"

text:
In a previous article, [email] (Beverly Erlebacher) says:

The chapter on Nunas in LOST CROPS OF THE INCAS(a tremendous resource for
anyone interested in traditional,i.e. non-european, foods of the Andes)
contains a note to the effect that nunas have been grown at a USDA site in
Pullman, Washington (47 degree N Lat., elev. 200m.)  It did not
specify whether they were grown indoors or out.  There is another note
to the effect that progress has been made in overcoming the photoperiod
sensitivity of the nunas.

J. Del Col (who wants very much to grow oca, but can't find anyone who
            can supply the tubers)


author: Marvin the Martian

subject: Re: GETTING REAL ON WIND AND SOLAR

text:
On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 01:10:07 -0700, Rob Dekker wrote:

And you're both wrong. Energy is also consumed to produce gasoline, that
doesn't mean that we need to make cars that run on crude oil.


author: Rob Dekker

subject: Re: GETTING REAL ON WIND AND SOLAR

text:
"Marvin the Martian" <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...

True, but it would be better if we were to use a liquid fuel that is a closer derivative from crude oil.
Diesel for example is more efficient than gasoline. It has a higher value of combustion than gasoline, per input unit of crude oil.
Also diesel engines run at higher compression rates than gasoline, further increasing the efficiency.

The Europeans understand that very well and are driving cars today that run 50 or 60 miles to a gallon of diesel, where in the US we
run only 20 - 30 miles/gallon.
Now THAT makes a difference.

Rob


author: Axel Vogt

subject: integrand numerical singular near boundary

text:
What is an appropriate method to (automatically) care for something like
Int(t/(1-z*t),t = 0 .. 1), z = 1-1e-8*I close to the boundary?

I do not mean the specific form above (only: to integrate over an interval).
If the singularity 1/z is off the bounds one can pass to another path to
reach 0 and 1. But if 1/z is close contour integrals do not help me much.

Is there some standard method to 'zoom in around the boundary'?


author: Robert Israel

subject: Re: integrand numerical singular near boundary

text:
In article <[email]>,
Axel Vogt  <[email]> wrote:

One thing you might try is subtracting off the singular part and
integrating it separately.
Thus the singular part of your integrand t/(1-z t) at t=1/z is
-1/z^2 (t-1/z)^(-1), and int_0^1 (t-1/z)^(-1) dt = ln(1-z).
After subtracting the singular part, you have a nice function
with no singularity at t=1/z.

Robert Israel                                [email]
Department of Mathematics        http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia            Vancouver, BC, Canada


author: Peter Spellucci

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Axel Vogt <[email]> writes:

quadpack as an adaptive code exatly for this. indeed it transforms
integrals over infinite intervals into ones over [0,1] with singularity
at the boundary and integrates this with adaptive refinement at the
boundaries using gauss and gauss kronrod nodes (interior nodes)
try it here:
http://numawww.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de:8081/
-> quadratur -> uneigentliche integrale
hth
peter


author: Vote Taker

subject: 4th CFV and VOTE ACK:  sci.engr.biomed

text:
This post is to acknowledge the votes that have been received so far
pertaining to the creation of the group sci.engr.biomed.  The charter
for this unmoderated group is:

The purpose of the group is to facilitate discussions and the exchange
of information pertaining to the field of Biomedical Engineering.  Biomedical
Engineering being (but not limited to): design and manufacture of artificial
limbs and organs; scientific research involving medicine/the body and
artificial materials; mature discussions on ethical matters; computer
programs/hardware related to Biomed Engineering, data collection, and
electronic muscle stimulation; modeling/simulation of Biomed systems; and
schools/courses involved with Biomedical Engineering.

Yes votes should be mailed to [email]
No votes should be mailed to [email]

The voting period opened on Jan 7, 1992---it will end at 23:59 on
Thursday Jan 30, 1992.

The votes received as of Jan 28 2:39pm EST are:

"Angie McCavitt, CFBA" <[email]>
"Ben Gerber" <[email]>
"Jeff E Mandel" <[email]>
"John G. Webster" <[email]>
"Joyce M. Mayo" <[email]>
"Juan A. Siguenza" <[email]>
"S. Dubin" <[email]>
"Suet S. Yeung" <[email]>
"arellano, poatraicia" <[email]>
"[email]" <[email]>
<[email]>
ALAN BINNIE <[email]>
[email]
[email]
Agustin I. Ifarraguerri  <[email]>
Anne Baker <[email]>
[email] (Ben Pashkoff)
Banu Onaral <[email]>
Benny Lovstrom <[email]>
Bruce Graham 5-2005 <[email]>
Carl Brown <[email]>
Cedric Walker <[email]>
Chris Norley <[email]>
Coral Bernier 5-2018 <[email]>
Craig Reister <[email]>
[email]
Dana Hewitt 5-2018 <[email]>
Dandong Wu <[email]>
Daniel Leotta <[email]>
David Basiji <[email]>
David Kiaei <[email]>
Dennis Michaelson <[email]>
Dick King <[email]>
Domingos B. Monforte da Cruz <[email]>
Doug Delany 84268 <[email]>
Douglas A. Coast <[email]>
Ed Herderick <[email]>
Eugenia Distefano <[email]>
FLAVIO ORTIGAO <[email]>
[email]
G. Tack <[email]>
Gail Baura <[email]>
Henk Jonkers <[email]>
Huntsman Group <[email]>
Ian Burns <[email]>
Ivan Vesely <[email]>
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author: lou

subject: power supply question

text:
Hi!
Would appreciate some help.

Was thinking of using a car radio at home. Specs read current
consumption 1.5A (at .5W).
The fuse is 5A.

DC power supply should be at least 1.5A but can I go up to 4A without
harming the radio?
Not sure if I would gain any improvement in sound.

Thanks!

Please cc: my email address if possible.

Louis
[email]


subject: Re: power supply question

text:
On Jan 27, 2:46 am, lou <[email]> wrote:

Google groups has munged your email address such that we can't see
what it was.  Otherwise, you've just invited every spamer in the world
to hit your mailbox, how could you possibly pick out an answer from
all that spam?  You should have disguised your email address along the
lines of Louis?_nospam_ATmsnDOTcom and then tell people to remove
_nospam_ as if we really aren't smart enough to do so without being
told.  OR are too dumb to figure out [email] stand
for.  Yet that silly bit of stuff allows you to put your email address
in places where it can be used but still not read by spam-bots.  But,
it's also bad etiquette to ask for an email answer in a news group as
that way no answer shows up in the news group and that defeats the
whole purpose of the news group to start with.

Having done what you want to do myself, I can state that you won't be
happy with most "DC power supplies" in that they will make so much
noise as to make listening to the car radio a non-pleasent
experiance.  None have passed the hum test as far as I am concerned
and any that are well enough filtered will be very expensive to
purchase.  Perhaps a better solution would be to use a car battery
with a cheap battery charger and charge the battery when you are not
listening?  I have my charger set up on a 110 volt timer such that
after 6 hours or so of charging it shuts off as I have removed the
"on" triggering device from the timer it only turns off now.  I charge
my battery twice a month and expect it to last several years more and
it already has two years so far.  I have a 4 amp charger that is some
30 years old and is more than enough for the job at hand.

Your comment on "would gain any improvement in sound." indicates a
severe lack of knowledge on the subject of electronics.  No, there
will be no improvement in "sound" (?) that way.  Your amperage draw
will only be as much as the radio needs to use as a general
statement.  If you force more amperage into it by means of using
higher than the nominal range of car voltage of 10--13.75 volts then
you risk damaging the radio severely - so don't do that!!  If you
DON'T use a car battery to act as a power supply sink you may wind up
with higher than nominal voltage anyway, all depending on exactly just
what power supply or battery eliminator you are attempting to use
here.  Again any battery eliminator or voltage regulated power supply
filtered adequately enough to pass a "hum" listening test will cost 3
to 10 times as much as a standard, plain jane 4 amp battery charger
like mine ($40).  Trickle chargers will ruin car batteries if left on
permantly and so-called battery maintainers tend to ruin batteries as
well.  The only method I have found to work for more than a year at a
time is the one I currenty use - a car battery that gets charged every
other week or so for 6 hours or so ONLY.


author: JeffM

subject: DON'T MULTI-POST (was: power supply question)

text:
lou wrote:

If you MUST post your question MULTIPLE times, use this technique
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:qHhBKJ-sXKYJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-post+adequately.answered+corrected+with.commas+individually+Disclaimers+*-*-*-marked-as-Read-in-ALL-*-groups+Newsgroups.line


author: Michael Kennedy

subject: Re: power supply question

text:
"lou" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Yes. You can't push amperage through a device so even if you had a 1000 amp
supply if it were regulated at 12v your radio would be fine. Here is a
simple analogy that uses plumbing. Think of voltage as the water pressure in
the pipe. You use too much pressure and you can make your water hose
explode. (well maybe works for this) Think of the amperage as the size of
the pipe. If the pipe is 4 inches but is only 45psi it will not harm the
hose.

The same holds true for your house's power line. You probably have 400 or
more amps avaible at 120v but things only use as many amps as they need.

Mike


author: Vertuas

subject: Re: power supply question

text:
used to run a car stereo and 6 disc autochanger from a pc AT power supply.
The old type with the switch on the box.

However, you will be lucky to find one these days.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
On Jan 27, 2:46 am, lou <[email]> wrote:

Google groups has munged your email address such that we can't see
what it was.  Otherwise, you've just invited every spamer in the world
to hit your mailbox, how could you possibly pick out an answer from
all that spam?  You should have disguised your email address along the
lines of Louis?_nospam_ATmsnDOTcom and then tell people to remove
_nospam_ as if we really aren't smart enough to do so without being
told.  OR are too dumb to figure out [email] stand
for.  Yet that silly bit of stuff allows you to put your email address
in places where it can be used but still not read by spam-bots.  But,
it's also bad etiquette to ask for an email answer in a news group as
that way no answer shows up in the news group and that defeats the
whole purpose of the news group to start with.

Having done what you want to do myself, I can state that you won't be
happy with most "DC power supplies" in that they will make so much
noise as to make listening to the car radio a non-pleasent
experiance.  None have passed the hum test as far as I am concerned
and any that are well enough filtered will be very expensive to
purchase.  Perhaps a better solution would be to use a car battery
with a cheap battery charger and charge the battery when you are not
listening?  I have my charger set up on a 110 volt timer such that
after 6 hours or so of charging it shuts off as I have removed the
"on" triggering device from the timer it only turns off now.  I charge
my battery twice a month and expect it to last several years more and
it already has two years so far.  I have a 4 amp charger that is some
30 years old and is more than enough for the job at hand.

Your comment on "would gain any improvement in sound." indicates a
severe lack of knowledge on the subject of electronics.  No, there
will be no improvement in "sound" (?) that way.  Your amperage draw
will only be as much as the radio needs to use as a general
statement.  If you force more amperage into it by means of using
higher than the nominal range of car voltage of 10--13.75 volts then
you risk damaging the radio severely - so don't do that!!  If you
DON'T use a car battery to act as a power supply sink you may wind up
with higher than nominal voltage anyway, all depending on exactly just
what power supply or battery eliminator you are attempting to use
here.  Again any battery eliminator or voltage regulated power supply
filtered adequately enough to pass a "hum" listening test will cost 3
to 10 times as much as a standard, plain jane 4 amp battery charger
like mine ($40).  Trickle chargers will ruin car batteries if left on
permantly and so-called battery maintainers tend to ruin batteries as
well.  The only method I have found to work for more than a year at a
time is the one I currenty use - a car battery that gets charged every
other week or so for 6 hours or so ONLY.


author: wnowak

subject: Discovery of PLuto ...

text:
took place on 18th of February 1930  - almost exactly 75 years ago.

However, the sattelite of PLuto Charon remained not discovered for ...
48 YEARS !
It was ACCIDENTLY discovered on pictures of PLuto in 1978.

The technology needed to discover Charon existed for all 48 years ( from
1930 to 1978 ).

Why it was not discovered ?

http://www.interlog.com/~wnowak/book


subject: Re: Discovery of PLuto ...

text:
I think that there was a substantial  chance that Charon would have been
discovered exactly during the eclipse season. Considering the fact that PLuto was
getting closer to its perihelion  point ( 1989 ), one would expect that big world
telescopes would place it inside its "focal point". This would be a real "jaw
dropper" , if Charon was discovered exactly during the eclipse season :)
Please note that the point of perihelion and the point of PLutonian equinox (
max. eclipses )
have nothing in common. It is  simply a random coincidence that they happen now
almost
exactly at the same time.

If you are interested in other shocking coincidences surrounding PLuto+Charon,
please visit my site.

Jonathan Silverlight wrote: