text:
"Inger E(NorahD)" <[email]> wrote in message
news:FZAIh.36182$[email]...

And as I said, the Irish tales can in no way be used as evidence of that.

But it is, if you want to claim that the Irish tales are a reason to think
we came from Iberia (and spoke a Basque related language as the article
stated)

Ah, a school childs interest, that would explain why you might think the
tales would lead people to believe in an Iberian connection to the original
settlers of Ireland.


author: Searles O'Dubhain

subject: Re: English, Irish, Scots: They're All One, Genes Suggest

text:
"JMB" <johnmbyrne[remove]@mysmart.ie> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Let's not forget that besides Spain, Britain,  Italy, the Alps, India,
Greece, Athens, Lochlann, Alba and Egypt were sometimes also names
provided in the Irish tales as a way of explaining a foreign or
Otherworldly concept. The analogies and allegories of the tales are to
flesh out ideas, imagery and mystery. They aren't usually history at
all.

There was a study done by either Carney or Carey (published in either
Celtica Journal or the Harvard Colloquium) in an attempt to correlate
the Irish tales to actual history with an overwhelming lack of success.
They tell a story that is culturally and traditionally important but
should be seen only as allegories and learning fables IMO (though
there's also a thread of history and poetry within them).

Searles O'Dubhain


author: Eleonore

text:
"JMB" <johnmbyrne[remove]@mysmart.ie> wrote in message
news:[email]...
British

Alone that's true, with artifacts found as the old wagon and other items
from in Lebor Gabala 'correct' period,
your statements aren't valid any more.

NO I never claimed that you came FROM Iberia,
but via Iberia. In fact an interesting thing is that Lebor Gabala correspond
pretty well with the old route described from the inner parts of the
Mediterranian preserved and delivered in a poem from 2nd or was it 3rd
century AD? You haven't noticed that have you?
But one source alone is one source no matter if it's primary, prime or
secondhand source,
two independent sources or more supporting same thing can't be ruled out as
easily as you tries to.
when
original

No, you misunderstand me. Deliberatly I presume.
Lebor Gabala has been one of the interesting readings I returned to and read
many times over, in origin as well as in English and Swedish translations.
Looking at it from different angles, checking the artifacts found in Ireland
and the isles around comparing those with periods mentioned in the text.
Also re-read whenever same story been told in other non-Irish and
non-English speaking Ancient and/or early Medieval text. More to Lebor
Gabala than some here tries to make belive.

Inger E


author: Douglas Clark

text:
Just to say that the thinking is that the Celts came from SouthWest France
rather than specifically the Basque country.


author: Hugh Watkins

text:
Searles O'Dubhain wrote:

christianity from north africa

trading by seagoing skin boats
look at the archeology

http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/english/micsun/IrishResources/archaeol.htm

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba36/ba36feat.html#budd

Hugh W


author: "JMB"

text:
"Eleonore" <[email]> wrote in message
news:avFIh.36199$[email]...

Cut the bullshit Inger.  There are no "artifacts found as the old wagon and
other items from in Lebor Gabala 'correct' period".

Two sources aren't corresponding for anything.  The Irish tales as the are
currently written down were written by christians and simply try to tie
Irish history into that of the bible, hence linking us via Iberia.  There is
no historical, DNA, or archaeological evidence to support that claim, and
there never has been.

In origin?  So are you now claiming to be able to understand Old Irish?
That's something that will be very easy to test.

What artefacts?  And what periods do you think are mentioned in the text?

The Irish tales (of which there is more than one manuscript!) are what they
are, and no matter what you want to believe, that's what they will remain.


text:
"Douglas Clark" <[email]> wrote in message
news:45f3bac7$0$8753$[email]...

The thinking is the people thought of as the first Celts were from central
Europe, and then they spread.  However, those people do not seem to have
ever come to Ireland, at least not in big enough numbers to leave a trace,
only their language eventually was used.  But that all happened long after
Ireland was originally settled, so those people who originally started
speaking a Celtic language were not the original settlers of Ireland.


text:
"JMB" <johnmbyrne[remove]@mysmart.ie> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Irish
that.
and
is
the
translations.
they

Doesn't help your case that many other non-Irish source supports Lebor
Gabala. Never said that Lebor Gabala was the only Irish tale. Nor that all
the others have same 'value'. How on Earth can you believe I said that?

Inger E


text:
"Eleonore" <[email]> wrote in message
news:99IIh.36210$[email]...

Ah, the usual evasive Inger claim.  And asking for a reference to these
sources isn't likely to do much good as they are most likely with all the
other "prime sources" that Inger refers to, i.e. a figment of her
imagination.  But I'll take a long shot and ask anyway:  What other sources
support the Irish tales Inger?

I didn't claim you did say that.  I pointed out that there is more than one
manuscript, not just that there was (obviouly) more than one tale.  And all
the tales do have the same "value", as do the manuscripts there are written
on.  It's when you take them all together and compare that you can get an
idea as to what parts of the stories are pre-christian, and what parts were
added afterwards.


author: AA Institute

subject: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
I'm no expert in chemical engineering, but I have a question for the
experts in this field. I want an 'acid' type of highly corrosive
solution to literally burn its way through an asteroid of a few
kilometres in diameter, as depicted in my orbital engineering proposal
here:-

http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/restricted/earth-ring.html

I was initially considering blasting my way through the rock using
ICBMs, but the side effect of such operations would leave the
excavation highly radioactive, and I'm interested in exploring other
options. These can be in the realm of technology we might conceivably
develop in the next few decades, as my concept is genuinely
*futuristic* in its timescales.

All thoughts appreciated.

AAi


author: dave e

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
[email] (AA Institute) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Establish a colony earth worms on the asteroid.  They should all be
equipt with specially fitted space suits.

(As long as we're being purely *futuristic*)

Dave


author: aSkeptic

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
[email] (AA Institute) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

You'd be better off dragging the asteroid to the moon, impacting it on
the surface, and collecting the debris. I've given some thought to
lunar mining recently and it might yeald some interesting materials.
The problem with digging deep holes in the earth is water and heat,
the farther down you go the more of it you have. On the moon, there
shouldn't be any water deep down (and it's one of those if it's found
cool deal too), and you got to go down many miles to find anything
molten like (if there is any molten material at all in the mooon). Who
knows.. Maybe 400 miles down you'd find diamonds the size of
watermelons...


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
AA Institute wrote:
is

This is what I earlier said in the previous post, that you will need to
know the approximate chemical composition of the asteroids before
thinking of suitable chemical reagent ( or a kind of cocktail reagent)
for their *chemical* excavation.


author: donald j haarmann

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"AA Institute" <[email]

[snip]

Cat spray! It will eat through solid Krell metal!!


author: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
Dear AA Institute:

"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

High pressure water, and the particles of material already liberated.
Simply abrade a hole through it, just like nature does on Earth.  Water
jets are used to machine quite neat holes in very thick metals...

Just need a pressure dome to help keep it liquid.

David A. Smith


author: Dr Matrix-Element

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Take some fine purple Fluospar (CaF2) crystal powder, or better mine them at
the site. Drill a 20mm diameter thin hole to required depth and fill up with
your crystals. Pump sulphuric acid into the hole, the hydrofluoric acid
produced will etch stone like sun melts the icecream. When all fluospar is
dissolved, remove the etched surroundings of your tunnel, and if not wide
enough for you, repeat the process by drilling adjacent holes.


author: Herman Family

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Just a few thoughts on this.  You are going to need a lot of acid to eat
away the core of an asteroid.  How are you going to transport it, use it,
and control it?  Carrying a couple of cubic miles of acid isn't going to be
easy or cheap.

Michael


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
AA Institute wrote:
proposal

chemical composition of *your* asteroids. Assuming it to be completely
made of iron, there is no acid which would literally drill a hole as
readily as you want and of the required magnitude, not even superacids
or hydrofluoric acid which is one of the most corrosive acid known.

Please note  all the above is speculation.


author: Uncle Al

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
AA Institute wrote:

Use your head (and social advocacy be damned).  The asteroid is
gravitationaly bound.  Mass is conserved.  Adding a whole bunch of
mass gives you a larger asteroid no matter what the ensuing chemistry.

Work out the asteroid's binding energy.  A thermonuke is piddles.  The
solution to an impending impact is trivial in any case:  Work out how
long the Earth requires to translate through its own diameter.  See?
Quick!  All ya gotta do is tinker the asteroid's orbit to have it
change arrival time by that very short time interval.  Dust it with
aluminum flake and let sunlight push on it.  Don't subcontract to NASA
- all you will buy is excuses.

Let the thing hit and exterminate most of humanity.  I have full
expection that Africa and Mexico will repopulate the Earth at their
current level of technology within a generation or three.  One then
expects billions of Democrat whiners being exhorted by priests to seek
a post-mortem heavenly Welfare Office.

Work the math, then refrain from further embarassing yourself in
public.


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
[email] wrote in message news:<[email]>...

You're right, there's not much point in exploring too deeply for a
solution at this stage, since we are at least a few *decades* and
several asteroid prospecting missions away from any of this.

I just wanted to peer a bit into the crystal ball and know how the
next couple of generations will be working toward such a scheme...
it's unlikely to happen within our lifetimes!

Abdul


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Yes, HF is not great on metals as it tends to form a protective coating.
Metallic asteroids are rare but if you must etch metal use HF, but etching
metal is much more expensive.


author: Keith Michaels

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (SNUMBER6) writes:
|> >From: [email]  (AA Institute)
|>
|> >I'm no expert in chemical engineering, but I have a question for the
|> >experts in this field. I want an 'acid' type of highly corrosive
|> >solution to literally burn its way through an asteroid of a few
|> >kilometres in diameter,
|>
|> See "Alien" ...

A chemical prion whose presence converts the molecules of the asteroid
with a self-perpetuating chain reaction until the entire mass is reduced
to a stinking rotten mess, which then hits the earth.  Scientists are
persecuted and janitors become the ruling class.  Get Bruce Willis on
on the line!


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"donald j haarmann" <[email]> wrote in message news:<%Uj8d.487205$[email]>...

The Altarans (krell) must have neutered their cats.


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:[email]> wrote in message news:<TAl8d.291004$4o.62172@fed1read01>...
Hi David,
When you say 'high pressure water' are you referring to water as we
know it or something chemically different (or are you joking like all
the other 'chemists' on this group)? I never heard of such a
substance, please explain.

That's no problem, as there will be some robotic constructions already
working on the surface of the rock, even prior to bringing it across
to near Earth.

Thanks
Abdul


author: Mohammed Farooq

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"Dr Matrix-Element" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:<41621025

Is it based on the assumption that an asteroid would be mostly
silicate material, suppose if it is made entirely of metallic iron do
you expect the same "melting like icecream" behaviour with HF?


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"Herman Family" <[email]/without_any_s/> wrote in message
news:fgy8d.8477$[email]...

All he needs is enough fluospar to fill a few 20mm thick holes and a couple
of tons of sulphuric acid. I don't see any problems with this.


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"Herman Family" <[email]/without_any_s/> wrote in message news:<fgy8d.8477$[email]>...
It's just a wild, futuristic kind of a thought experiment, and I'm
simply exploring ideas really. For this *potential* rock to house a
colony within its interior orbiting the Earth, we are talking about a
large scale 'celestial Titanic', much like the one I blue printed
here:-

http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/restricted/interstellar-propulsion.html

I just wanted some ideas on the kind of material science engineering
available in the current era that could help with hollowing out such
an asteroid. As for transporting it from the asteroid belt to an Earth
orbit, well if we could hollow it out "there" and then attempt to
steer it toward an orbit around the Earth, then that would save a huge
amount of fuel (less mass) and avoid the problems of creating a debris
"ring" around the Earth (which may be dynamically unstable).

AAI


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"Dr Matrix-Element" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:4164155b$[email]...

Errata: "if you must etch metal use HF" should read "if you must etch metal
use HCl".


author: Dirk Bruere at Neopax

subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
AA Institute wrote:

http://www.emachineshop.com/machines-kerf/water-jet-cutting.htm


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
Dear AA Institute:

"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Water with particles is typically referred to as "slurry".  Same water,
just as an emulsion of particles about as hard as what you are cutting
away.  Do a search on "water jet cutting" or "water knife".

You could do it with ammonia, or carbon dioxide (and more) too.  Water is
simply acting as a momentum carrier, the particles act as the edge of the
"drill bit", and the momentum-spent slurry acts like the flutes of the
drill bit... carrying material away from the worksite.

David A. Smith


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
[email] (Mohammed Farooq) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

With an outright excavation plan for hollowing out its interior, it is
unlikely that a *pure* metallic asteroid would be chosen. Rather, it
will be a balance between how much surface minerals it possesses (for
commercial mining), how easy it is to transport across to near Earth
and how easy it would be to 'dig' (for establishing a space station
within its interior)... that's how I envision things.

AAI


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I am afraid I have to rubbish your idea. The only thing asteroids are useful
for is mining. If you need a radiation shield, you will have materials that
are optimised for shielding with minimal mass and then use your usual mini
nukes propulsion system to get from point A to your space base faster thus
minimising radiation exposure. High hydrogen content materials like
polyethylene, or even liquid hydrogen layer gives best shielding.


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
Dirk Bruere at Neopax <[email]> wrote in message

Wow! Water jet cutting ("WJC") looks very exciting and could be just
the ticket. Perhaps we design a set of robotic vehicles that land on
and progressively cut/dig their way into the asteroid, to carve out
the habitat. Do you have any thoughts as to how the WJC could be
rolled out to a large scale engineering project... only the asteroid
is going to be at least a few kilometres deep. The other point is the
body will only have a tiny amount of gravity, will the WJC require a
lot of gravity for effective use?

Thanks for your thoughts
Abdul


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"Dr Matrix-Element" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:<41641680> >>

Very well if you must 'rubbish the idea', that's your choice and you
have every right to do this. The attraction of this idea comes into
its own when you save hundreds of rocket launches from the ground up,
ferrying materials to a high Earth orbit, where thousands of high risk
man hours will be spent by astronauts to build the outer framework of
a 'celestial Titanic'. And you need something on that scale to achieve
a *permanent* presence in space.

Consider that in the past 40 years, in the way of orbital stations,
we've tried the Salyut, Skylab, Mir, ISS... and god knows whatever
else is coming next, with frankly very little in the way of
establishing a permanent presence in orbit around our planet. Your
idea seems to suggest that we need a scaled up version of another
International Space Station style station in a higher orbit around the
Earth, where it may be dynamically more stable? (The ISS isn't stable,
it runs a danger of plunging into our upper atmosphere within one
year, unless you boost it using rockets, as is currently done).

Consider the ISS weighs 450 metric tonnes, took 16 nations to build
it, costing billions, with a shuttle disaster killing 7 people along
the way.... and the benefits? It has just *two* people living inside
under the most inhospitable of living conditions with no artificial
gravity, bone-decaying microgravity, ... a total disaster!

Would you like to see a scaled-up version of this as a 'bigger
disaster'... or perhaps we try a fresh approach with a more solid,
stable structure, like a miniature Earth by utilising an asteroid
instead?

Have a look at the long term merits of my proposal here, where the
biosphere and ecosystem arrangement is covered a bit more in depth:-

http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/restricted/interstellar-propulsion.html

Abdul Ahad


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
AA Institute wrote:

A better scheme would be to pulverise asteroid material to nanometre size and
then direct cutting jets from this material which has been accelerated either
electrostatically or magnetically.


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
Dear AA Institute:

"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

You might look at the under-Channel tunnel made between England and France
as a design for your robots.  The amount of gravity will have an effect on
handling of the slurry.  We alreday talked about the need for pressure
domes, to keep the water from vaporizing.  You will have a lot more "rock
dust" liberated than you require for further operations, so filtration will
have material to be disposed of (maybe the makings of cement).

It would be a lot better to have a structured craft floating behind the
asteroid...  especially since brittle objects tend to fracture (assuming
you are still talking about creating a "generation ship").

David A. Smith


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
[email] (AA Institute) wrote in message news:<[email]>...
snip

If you just want to set up an orbiting space colony, what's wrong with
setting it up on the moon?  It seems to me that would be more cost
effective than boring out the core of an asteroid, then dragging it
into an earth orbit.

Dave


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"AA Institute" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

And how much fuel will you spend trying to adjust direction of your ship
with the extra weight edded on?

We had continued presence in space for the last 45 years. Wake up.

Its not about stability, but about the extra weight. With hydrogen I was
suggesting better radiation shielding for healthier human inhabitants.

No, its just US and Russia. The others are there for decorative purposes.

Learn something about ISS before assuming that you have the knowledge for
inventing things.

Are we  to devolve back to cavemen?

You proposal is unworkable. You are wasting your time.


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:[email]> wrote
in

Kind of... this is the "prequel" if you like, where the asteroid is
initially utilised in orbit around the Earth as a space station to
establish a large colony living inside the rock:-

http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/restricted/earth-ring.html

AAI


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
[email] (dave e) wrote in message

A base on the Moon or even one on Mars will be "fixed" locations and
both of which are *way* beyond the logistical reach capabilities of
present day rockets and human spaceflight endurance records.  What
*this* asteroid interior space colony concept will offer, in my view,
is potentially a *nearer* solution than either the Moon or Mars in
terms of reach, and even more ambitiously (!) a transportation vessel
for sailing the vast seas of interplanetary space and even more,
ultra-ambitiously (!!)... a vessel that can reach for the stars!

http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/restricted/earth-ring.html

A "magic" space station that gives you access to the entire cosmos,
where you take your Earthly comforts like food chains, a biosphere and
an ecosystem with you on the voyage...

I know of no currency or economic methods in the current era of our
civilisation that can ever place a monetary *value* on the true worth
of such a space vehicle. If it can be built and worked (and I see no
reason why it can't over a few decades), it would be utterly
priceless!

Hey, when people like George W. Bush and other great space visionaries
of our time are offering us "Moon to Mars" initiatives... I'm offering
a "Celestial Titanic to all the Planets and Stars" initiative!

Abdul Ahad


subject: Re: The most corrosive known acid!

text:
We'd have to do that anyway. Once all the energy runs out on Earth,
and the planet reverts to an ice age...or a desert, it's time to run
for the caves...

On the Moon, we'd be taking shelter in lunar caves and lava tubes as
shelter from the solar wind and cosmic rays. Likewise on Mars...


author: troll

subject: Is Michelle Obama a polydactyl?

text:
Basic question.

Did Michelle Obama once have a sixth toe, that
was removed when she was an infant?

Does she still have a sixth toe?

I am not sure if someone is going to ask me this
question in the next week.  I am also not sure if
I would look really stupid if I did not know the
answer.

Web searches do not seem to come up with
anything clear and unequivocal on the subject.


author: Kleuskes & Moos

subject: Re: Is Michelle Obama a polydactyl?

text:
On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 00:24:14 -0800, troll wrote:

Who cares?

Why is that important to you? Do you think having a sixth toe influences her
capability to function as a First Lady?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ________________________________________
/ I KAISER ROLL?! What good is a Kaiser  \
| Roll without a little COLE SLAW on the |
\ SIDE?                                  /
 ----------------------------------------
  \
   \
       ___
     {~._.~}
      ( Y )
     ()~*~()
     (_)-(_)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


author: AGWFacts

subject: Re: Is Michelle Obama a polydactyl?

text:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 00:24:14 -0800 (PST), troll <[email]>
wrote:

I don't get it....

--
"I'd like the globe to warm another degree or two or three...  and CO2 levels
to increase perhaps another 100ppm - 300ppm." -- [email]


author: Alasdair Baxter

subject: Re: 5th wheel couplings

text:
In article <[email]>
           [email] "Chirstopher Frusher" writes:

What do you mean by "drop back" and what advantage would this have?  What I
see as much more important would be a device to inhibit jack-knifing in
situations of potential accidents or adverse road conditions like ice and
snow.  Could I suggest that you visit your local transport cafe and talk
to some of the artic drivers?  Their lives depend on the fifth wheel coupling.


author: crunch

subject: Monkey Drumming Suggests the Origin of Music

text:
Archies,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20091017/sc_livescience/monkeydrummingsuggeststheoriginofmusic

Extract -
The fact that vocal and nonvocal communication have common origins in
the brain in monkeys could support the notion that both co-evolved "to
support the human faculties of language and music," he added. "This
also provides evolutionary support for the gestural theory of
communication, which proposes that human speech and language developed
from gestures and hand actions. We provide the functional link between
gestural communication and vocal communication by identifying brain
areas activated by sounds associated with gestures and vocalizations."

David Christainsen's World of Archaeology


subject: Re: Monkey Drumming Suggests the Origin of Music

text:
On Oct 19, 8:11 pm, Sir David <[email]> wrote:

Never have I seen an ARCHAEOLOGICAL post
out of you.  Know any archaeology?

David Christainsen


author: Sir David

text:
On Oct 19, 8:14 pm, crunch <[email]> wrote:

Trying to duck the fact that you lied? Yes you are!
Trying to duck the fact that your post was not about archaeology? Yes
you are!

Monkeys pounding on a keyboard would be more honest that you. Smarter,
too.


author: Garry Williams

text:
On Oct 19, 2:13 pm, crunch <[email]> wrote:

There's a problem with this. Humans and dogs understand instinctivley
what is meant by pointing at something. Cats and chimpanzees do not.
If chimps (and monkeys and apes in general) do not understand pointing
behavior, how can their gestures support any sort of linguistic
theory?


text:
On Oct 19, 3:06 pm, Garry Williams <[email]> wrote:

The story comes from the website of Archaeological Institute
of America and that should satisfy you.

David Christainsen


author: LloydB

text:
On Oct 19, 2:22 pm, crunch <[email]> wrote:

It doesn't.   Animal behavior is, at best, somewhat
related to human behavior, and therefore, anthropology.

Just because others are unable to differentiate....
Oh, but wait, sorry, forgot who I was replying to.


text:
On Oct 19, 3:22 pm, crunch <[email]> wrote:

Yahoo.com is not "the website of Archaeological Institute of America."
You're a liar, in addition to being an an idiot and an asshole.


text:
On Oct 19, 6:42 pm, Peter Alaca <[email]> wrote:

Next time check your facts -

http://www.archaeology.org/news/

"Archaeological Headlines

Monday, October 19
by Jessica E. Saraceni'

"Scientists are studying vocal and non-vocal communication in
primates, which have common origins in the brain in monkeys. 'Monkeys
respond to drumming sounds as they would to vocalizations,' said
neuroscientist Christoph Kayser of the Max Planck Institute for
Biological Cybernetics. Human language and music may have evolved from
such vocal and non-vocal communications."

Further, on sci.arch I have always brought anthropology
news.

Serious request -
review in your own mind whether I have been
trolling.  Consider whether it is just news.

David Christainsen


text:
On Oct 19, 7:20 pm, Carl <[email]> lied:

But that's not what you posted. Did you even bother to read it? No,
probably not. Do you think that nobody would notice that you changed
to a different article? Do you really think everyone is as stupid as
you are? No wonder you have no friends.


text:
On Oct 19, 7:29 pm, Peter Alaca <[email]> wrote:

It is anthropology.  Further, I told the truth and
you are spreading lies.

It's time for you to reform yourself because
what goes around, comes around.

David Christainsen


text:
On Oct 19, 7:50 pm, crunch <[email]> wrote:

So you admit it's not archaeology.

Another crunchy non-sequitur.

You told a lie, fucking moron liar.


author: Peter Alaca

text:
Sir David <[email]> 20/10/2009 00:19 wrote:

And the article comes not from he website of Archaeological Institute
of America and is not even based on an article from the website of
Archaeological Institute of America, but from LiveScience and is based
on an article in PNAS, under the subject Neuroscience, by authors
affiliated with the Max-Planck Institute for Biological Cybernetics end
the Division of Imaging Science and Biomedical Engineering, University
of Manchester.

That is Carl's "World of Archaeology"


text:
crunch <[email]> 20/10/2009 01:20 wrote:

Check your facts. That was not the link you gave.
And that pages only gives four lines from the from Livescience
copied article in Yahoo news.
It is not archaeology and you are a fucking liar, so go fuck yourself.


author: Scott H Mullins

subject: Solid model tolerances (was Re: CAD/CAM inefficient)

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Ed Moore) writes:
[del]

There isn't. The problem is two-fold: (1) The current mechanical
tolerancing standard (ANSI Y14.5) is 2-D, whereas solid
models are inherently 3-D, and; (2) the "mathematization" of mechanical
tolerances has been a slow process and is really just getting underway
with the introduction of ANSI Y14.5.1.

I'm not intimately familiar with their data structures but I
would strongly doubt it. Acis has enough to do handling the
nominal geometric information. That's not to say that such
data structures couldn't be built on top of the Acis engine.


author: Kevin Talbot

subject: Re: Solid model tolerances (was Re: CAD/CAM inefficient)

text:
[email] (Scott H Mullins) writes:

I don't think this is completely true. Many, if not all, geo tolerances
control a feature in 3D. Example: I specify a hole that is to be "true
position" within a .020 diameter normal to a datum plane. The theoretical
axis of this hole can be oriented in any manner relative to this datum so
long as the axis is contained within a .020 diamter "cylinder" that grows
larger as the hole approaches LMC. This *is* 3D control, I think.

But I agree that "normal" x/y tolerances are 2D.

I think that ACIS provides "fields" for nearly any kind of info, most of
which are predefined. But the problem is that a CAD system that is
advertized as "ACIS compatible" means that it can *write* and *read* an
ACIS file with all the parameters it *knows* about. It can't write or
read any information it does not understand. This is exacly analogous to
IGES translation. If a system does not understand "trimmed surfaces",
then it ignores them when it reads them. Perhaps there are some
predefined ACIS "classes" that define *minimum* levels of read/write
capability?

Also on the thread of why do companies still use drawings: if you don't
have paper drawings, then a company needs to invest in "viewing stations"
for everyone that normally would look at drawings, like purchasing
people, field service engineers, manufacturing persons, etc. That's a big
investment.

A company I used to work for adopted a very forward thinking system a
long time ago. They completely modeled all parts in 3D, but still made
drawings that called out some minimal set of dimensions for inspection
and had all the notes for texture, material, finish, ECO info, etc. They
started this way back in 1989, if you can believe it! And today, it is
still the SOP there and it works well!

But for any company that has to deal with the FDA, i.e. anybody that
makes medical devices, the FDA requires *paper*. They have come down very
hard on some local Seattle companies. They forced Physio Control to
suspend production on several products for nearly a year and a half until
they satisfied the FDA that the "paper trail" was adequate.

Adding some of this detail info to a 3D model can be hard. I use
Pro/Engineer, and I don't really know how I would include material and
finish info into the model. I can add "notes" to a model, but it's hard
to let someone know they are there and view them all at once. And I can
put in tolerances of features as I create them, but alas, they are only
2D tolerances! But it's a start - and they *do* show up on the screen and
I can go through my model and make them slam to upper or lower limits and
see if everything still fits! Beats tolerance stackup calcs by hand!


text:
In article <3fube0$[email]> [email] (Kevin Talbot) writes:

You are correct. I was over-simplifying for the sake of brevity.

Indeed, a position tolerance on a cylinder has a perfectly
straightforward 3-D interpretation. Many other geometric
tolerances do not. Take, for example, the case of a parallelity (?)
tolerance applied on a cylinder wrt a planar datum. There are other
cases (esp. with regard to profile tolerances) where reference
is made to the "plane of the paper." How does one find the plane of the
paper on the manufactured part?

Size tolerances are whole other kettle of fish.

[del]

Precisely.

I don't know the answer to this. This is the sort of "standards"
issue that STEP/PDES seeks to address.

I think the idea is that with a "complete" (whatever that means)
computer model of the part, the manufacturing/inspection (read,
maching and CMM) of a part can be done automatically. No need for
the people on the floor to even know what the part is supposed to
look like in detail. You just give them a solid model, sans' design
details, to let them know the overall shape.
With purchasing you just electronically transfer
the part model to your suppliers. Field service is a whole other
question.

FWIW, I doubt that this will be the most efficient method
for product realization and that some hard-copy  of the design
will always be necessary. To me, the real question is which one
will have priority: the electronic version or the paper version.

This sounds like a reasonable approach.

Again, satisfying regulatory agencies, not to mention product
liability issues, is a whole other problem. Not a simple one,
either.

There _are_ serious limitations. A "complete" computer part
model is probably still a long way off. Thanks for your comments.


author: Dick Brewster

text:
Kevin Talbot ([email]) wrote:
: [email] (Scott H Mullins) writes:

snip ---

: >There isn't. The problem is two-fold: (1) The current mechanical
: >tolerancing standard (ANSI Y14.5) is 2-D, whereas solid
: >models are inherently 3-D, [snip]

: I don't think this is completely true. Many, if not all, geo tolerances
: control a feature in 3D. Example: I specify a hole that is to be "true
: position" within a .020 diameter normal to a datum plane. The theoretical
: axis of this hole can be oriented in any manner relative to this datum so
: long as the axis is contained within a .020 diamter "cylinder" that grows
: larger as the hole approaches LMC. This *is* 3D control, I think.

Its very unusual to use LMC on a hole.  Normally one would use MMC and
the tolerance zone would grow larger as the hole grew larger.

: Also on the thread of why do companies still use drawings: if you don't
: have paper drawings, then a company needs to invest in "viewing stations"
: for everyone that normally would look at drawings, like purchasing
: people, field service engineers, manufacturing persons, etc. That's a big
: investment.

: A company I used to work for adopted a very forward thinking system a
: long time ago. They completely modeled all parts in 3D, but still made
: drawings that called out some minimal set of dimensions for inspection
: and had all the notes for texture, material, finish, ECO info, etc. They
: started this way back in 1989, if you can believe it! And today, it is
: still the SOP there and it works well!

It seems like this is necessary anytime you use outside suppliers to
manufacture parts, unless you have a lot of control over the suppliers.


text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Dick Brewster) writes:

[del]


subject: AGW Has All The Classic Hallmarks Of Religion

text:
4 Jun 08

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/warming_faith_defied_in_parliament/

But let us take the time to examine some of the pseudoscience on which
this whole anthropogenic global warming belief is based. Let us also
examine how these disciples act and how they are reported. First, I find
some of the commentary coming from some of the anthropogenic global
warming zealots extremely perplexing.

We hear that the rate of increase of global temperature is faster than
the science predicted. But what is actually happening?

I have three graphs: one from the third IPCC assessment report and two
from the fourth assessment report. All of the projections show an
increase from the year 2000, even if the graph for carbon dioxide is
held constant at year 2000 levels. I repeat: all the projections show an
increase over the last decade.

But what do actual measurements show?

I have many charts showing the global temperature as measured by four
groups, including the Hadley centre, whose data is officially used by
the IPCC. This data shows that the temperature has flatlined over the
last 10 years.

Observation does not fit theory and yet the theory is deemed correct.

A classic example of rejecting facts which do not fit the theory is the
temperature graph over the last 1,000 years and the use of tree ring and
tree density data as a proxy for temperature. There is a well-known
problem when comparing tree ring and density data with temperature data
over the last 140 years. Between 1860 and 1960, the data agreed
reasonably well. After 1960, there is a divergence. The tree ring and
density data indicate that temperatures have decreased, where
measurements have actually indicated an increase. If you look at the
IPCC graphs, the tree proxy data ends abruptly at-you guessed it-1960.

Keith Briffa, a lead author of the IPCC, in the chapter relating to tree
proxy data had this to say of the divergence problem:

In the absence of a substantiated explanation for the decline, we make
the assumption that it is likely to be a response to some kind of recent
anthropogenic forcing. On the basis of this assumption, the
pre-twentieth century part of the reconstructions can be considered to
be free from similar events and thus accurately represent past
temperature variability.

In other words, we do not know how the hell to explain the post-1960
data, so we will just blame humans and accept that all the earlier data
is correct because that fits neatly with our paradigm. This is what a
friend of mine refers to as 'situating the appreciation rather than
appreciating the situation'. You make the facts fit the theory when

you should make the theory fit the facts.

If global temperature is not heating as predicted, maybe this elusive
heat is going into the oceans. Not so. Three thousand oceanic robots
that dive up to 1,000 metres have been measuring ocean temperatures
since 2003 and show, if anything, a slight decrease and certainly not an
increase. So where has the heat gone? IPCC coordinating

lead author Kevin Trenberth has stated: ... none of the climate states
in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate.
In particular, the state of

the oceans, sea ice, and soil moisture has no relationship to the
observed state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models.

According to Kevin Trenberth, the lost heat is probably going back out
to space. He says the earth has a number of natural thermostats,
including clouds, which can trap heat, turn up the temperature or
reflect sunlight and help cool the planet. So why is none of this
reflected in the modelling? It is situating the appreciation again.

This whole issue of anthropogenic global warming has all the classic
hallmarks of religion.

There are the high priests-the Gores, the Flannerys et cetera of the
world, who talk the talk but are utterly hypocritical when it comes to
walking their talk. There is the concept of original sin, being industry
and carbon dioxide, and the whole issue of penance or paying the price
for your actions. This is the way we have to pay for the use of industry
which is emitting carbon dioxide. The high priests, however, can get
away with their profligate lifestyle by buying indulgences, also known
as carbon credits, and so continue to sin. Hence, we have Flannery
jetting here, there and everywhere and Gore, similarly, with just one of
his residences-one of three, I might add-consuming 20 times as much
energy as the average American household. That is how concerned he is
about global warming in reality.

The media indulge the high priests, castigating the many heretics who
dare to differ. Yet they let the high priests off, not scrutinising
their statements as the media should. Take Flannery's suggestion, for
example, of putting sulphur into the atmosphere, using terribly
polluting aircraft to disperse it. What a delicious irony! For those who
know a bit of chemistry, what happens when you mix sulphur, water and
oxygen? You get sulphuric acid, also known as acid rain. I guess that is
the price that we need to pay for our sin. But why has the media not
lampooned

Flannery, who is supposed to be a global warming expert scientist of the
highest order, for such a ridiculous proposal?

It is political correctness of the highest and most unconscionable
order.

So what we have is a more and more desperate anthropogenic global
warming theory supporters club who, when the data indicates that the
planet has not been heating for the last 10 years and the oceans have
not heated for at least the last five, tell us that global warming is
happening even more quickly than the theory predicts.

After all, the models must be right, just like the bookies must always
be right with predictions on match or racing results.

The problem is that this religion based around the false god of a
controllable and naturally benign climate is going to hurt every man,
woman and child in Australia as a result of significantly higher fuel
and energy prices and consequent increases in the cost of living,
particularly food, so groceries and fuel and so on are going to go up
significantly-estimates say approximately 10c to 30c per litre for
petrol alone.

This government is clearly quite happy with that, and that is a tragedy
for many Australians.


author: V for Vendicar

subject: Re: AGW Has All The Classic Hallmarks Of Religion

text:
"0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote

Ahahahaahahah... Completely unfathomable.

To a MMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNN

My drink continued to warm, even after my ice cube had melted.

Unfathomable....


author: Lloyd

text:
On Jun 3, 10:33 pm, "0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote:

Now turn the graphs right side up.

Sez who?

Only you right-wingers say it isn't.

Are the oceans only at 1000 m?  Gee, no.

Yeah, and you have all the classic hallmarks of mental disease.

Those who do not learn science are condemned to look stupid when they
criticize it.


text:
0ZBN0 wrote:

  A lie, and no graph will be presented to show me wrong.


author: Phisher KIng

text:
"0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote in news:4845fee8$[email]:

Considering how religiously you proselytize against it, I think you really
should be looking at your own dogmatic insistance that the majority of the
world's scientific community is wrong and that you and a few crackpots are
right. The so called "pettition" that you keep throw out there, the one
that was bamboozeled past people way back in 1990, is so bogus and yet that
seems to be all that you have.
And what is it with this Australian/Candadian flat earth society that you
seem to be connected to?


author: [redacted]

text:
On Jun 3, 11:30 pm, "0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote:

I think your religion model is apt, in that it asks for an act of
faith, a belief in things not seen, on the authority of a prophet. Al
Gore seems to me more like a self-styled messiah who wants to save the
world from global warming, to vindicate and overcome his rage over not
winning the presidency of 2001. The hypocrisy of the left is par for
the course, it is ironic that so many of these white wine and brie
cheese limousine liberals live in gated communities that prohibit many
things that would save energy, such as clotheslines, wind turbines,
and solar panels. The Kennedy family is fiercely opposing an offshore
wind farm near their family home on Cape Cod. Though the libbers
promote renewable forms of energy, when one is planned nearby their
homes, it's nimby (not in my back yard) time.
 There are political motives as well. The left was terribly
discredited by the worldwide fall of communism everywhere but in Cuba,
North Korea, and English departments in American universities. Global
Warming is a substitute ideology for Socialism, to impose control-
freak transnational power over the freedom of individuals that they
hate so much. We will pay a terrible price in failed public policy
years down the road, giving way to the hegemony of China, India, and
Russia that care nothing about a theory they rightly don't believe in.
Their intellectual and political forbears in the '70's had
policymakers and much of the public convinced that their was a coming
ice age, and that billions of people would perish from the effects of
overpopulation. The result is that we have an aging population that
the younger workers cannot support thru social security and their
pensions. Ice age? Maybe the burning of fossil fuels stopped it. and
is keeping it away. That suggestion about flying planes to dump SO2
into the upper atmosphere is particularly funny, the same people
convinced us to stop burning high sulfur coal and/or install scrubbers
in smokestacks. So the envirowhiners helped cause global warming, go
figure.
 The future is very hard to predict, which brings one more religious
aspect to this. These people are claiming the power of prophesy. Past
records of predictions by past futurists should teach us, and them,
some humility. But that is one religious virtue that they do not have.-
Jitney


author: z

text:
On Jun 4, 7:55 pm, [email] (Doug Bashford) wrote:

gave a place for the white supremacists to go so they could leave the
democratic party. that's good.


text:
"0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote in news:48463672$[email]:

Just what I said:
The so called "pettition" that you keep throw out there, the one
that was bamboozeled past people way back in 1990, is so bogus and yet
that seems to be all that you have.
You really do have "crackpot" written all over you.


text:
On Jun 4, 2:30 am, "0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote:

Nine of the notable skeptical climatologists who signed the 31,000
petition:

W. Kline Bolton, M.D. is a professor of medicine and Nephrology
Division Chief at the University of Virginia.

Zhonggang Zeng (one of the 9,000 with a PhD) is a professor of
mathematics at Northeastern Illinois University. His most recent
publication is entitled "Computing multiple roots of inexact
polynomials."

Hub Hougland is a dentist in Muncie, Indiana. He was inducted into the
Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame last year.

Linda Fiore, Student, New York City

Sarah Elizabeth Fiore, Student, New York City

Jonathan David Fiore, Student, New York City

Robert S. Glitch, BA (Accounting, Ohio University), MBA (Ohio State
University), Treasury Manager, The Ohio Valley Coal Company, Powhatan
Point, Ohio, U.S.A.

Wayne Greer, Managing Director, Staedtler Ltd, New Zealand

Philip Hackett, MSTA (Member of the Society of Technical Analysts),
CFTe (Certified Financial Technician), Technical Analysis, Bramley,
Surrey, United Kingdom

Scott D. Haney, A. (Equine Sciences, Black Hawk East Community
College), Director, Conveyors, Murray Energy Corporation and
Subsidiary Companies, Galatia, Illinois, U.S.A.

Now I can see why such an august gathering of scientific wisdom would
impress YOU.........


text:
"Phisher KIng" <locker2@thebusstartion> wrote in message
news:Xns9AB2EAE1939BCgilliam@216.196.97.131...

Huh?
I'm with the 32,000 scientists!

Over 31,000 US Scientists Deny Man Made Global Warming

Dennis Avery

May 24, 2008

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/3214

QUOTE: "The correlation between Earth's temperatures and CO2 is only at
the "accidental" level-22 percent and declining sharply over the past
decade as the temperatures have refused to increase with the CO2
 levels."

31000 scientists sign Oregon GW Skeptic Petition

In 1998, Dr. Arthur Robinson, Director of the Oregon Institute for
Science and Medicine, posted his first Global Warming skeptic petition,
on the Institute's website (oism.org). It quickly attracted the
signatures of more than 17,000 Americans who held college degrees in
science. Widely known as the Oregon Petition, it became a counter-weight
for the "all scientists agree" mantra of the man-man Global Warming
crowd.

Recently, with America being dragged toward Kyoto-style energy limits by
cadres of alarmists, Robinson mailed a new copy of the petition to his
original signers, asking them to recruit additional qualified
scientists.  Now his list includes nearly 32,000 American man-made
warming skeptics with science qualifications.  More than 9,000 hold
scientific PhDs. Almost 32,000 thousand skeptics happens to be twelve
times as many scientists as the 2,500 scientific reviewers claimed by
the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change to form a scientific
consensus.

Last week Robinson held a press meeting at the National Press Club in
DC, followed by a luncheon on Capital Hill, to which members of Congress
and their aides were invited. Not surprisingly, attendance was low.

Robinson's petition states a truth:  "There is no convincing evidence
that human release of CO2, methane or other greenhouse gases is causing
or will cause, in the foreseeable future, catastrophic heating of the
Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate."

What do these approx 32,000 scientists believe has caused the earth's
warming since 1850 if it isn't CO2?  He points to the sun. Robinson
notes that over the past 150 years the sunspot index has predicted the
Earth's temperature changes-with 79 percent accuracy-about ten years
before they happen.  The sunspots actually predicted the 2007 global
temperature decline; the index turned down in 2000.  The computer models
didn't foresee it.

The correlation between Earth's temperatures and CO2 is only at the
"accidental" level-22 percent and declining sharply over the past decade
as the temperatures have refused to increase with the CO2 levels.
Robinson says the lack of correlation between CO2 levels and past Earth
temperatures proves that CO2 is not dominating our climate.

The Oregon chemist warns that "no other major scientific problem has
ever been tackled the way the UN has approached global warming." The UN
hosted a big meeting of scientists, he says, and then a small group of
"authors" summarized the discussions into a global action plan.  But the
UN has never produced any evidence that humans are warming our climate.
The UN panel says CO2 became the culprit "by the process of elimination"
but such a process is neither scientific nor admissible in a court of
law.

The forecasts of desperate temperature increases all come from computer
climate models, notes Robinson.  But the computer models keep
forecasting more warming than we get.  In fact, 70 percent of the earth's
recent warming occurred before 1940, while virtually all of humanity's
greenhouse gas emission has occurred since that date.  The Earth's net
warming since 1940 is a tiny 0.2 degree C.

"If CO2 isn't causing our tiny warming, then banning all our energy will
simply make people poor and helpless, says Robinson, "The cold spells
and heat waves nature will always throw at us, will then indeed,
threaten human lives on the planet."

Warmest Regards

Bonzo

". none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to
the current observed climate. In particular, the state of the oceans,
sea ice, and soil moisture has no relationship to the observed state at
any recent time in any of the IPCC models." Kevin Trenberth, IPCC
Coordinating Lead Author


author: Doug Bashford

text:
0ZBN0 said about:
 Re: AGW Has All The Classic Hallmarks Of Religion


text:
"0ZBN0" <[email]> wrote

31,500 of whom were not scientists?  And included such eminent scientsits as
Bat Man, and Captian AmeriKKKa, and people who had been dead for decades.

Ahahahahahahah... Ya, that list.


author: Craig M. Armstrong

subject: Long Eyelashes

text:
I'm curious if anyone trims or curls their eyelashes to keep them away
from their eyeglasses.

When I move my glasses away from my eyelashes, they slide down my nose
enough that I have to look up to see clearly straight ahead.

Also, I use clip-on sunglasses. Moving the frame down and away from my
forehead allows a lot of bright light in from 'up above.' Too bad I
don't have more recessed eyes ;)

With my old glasses I just put up with them brushing the lenses. But my
eyelashes split, something like this: \\\\\///// which looks a little
silly. Think they'll go back to normal? Also, my lenses got smeared
whenever my eyes would water a lot.

Any suggestions on how they should properly fit?


author: amewo

subject: Re: Long Eyelashes

text:
Hi, Craig,

Try http://eyelashes.hypermart.net/

It might work to you.

Regards, Carol

In article <94sqkr$fql$[email]>,
  Craig M. Armstrong <[email]> wrote:
my

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


subject: Re: Long Eyelashes

text:
I've wondered about doing this myself. I wear my glasses a little down
my nose to keep the lashes from hitting. I don't think the eye
professionals have noticed this and I wonder if it leads to prescribing
and fitting problems.
George

In article <94sqkr$fql$[email]>,
  Craig M. Armstrong <[email]> wrote:
my

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


author: Ben Carter

subject: Re: Long Eyelashes

text:
Craig M. Armstrong <[email]> writes:

When I buy new glasses, I always ask that the back surfaces of the lenses
be kept far enough from my eyes to avoid "lash crash".  I ask that the
lens blanks be chosen with a "base curve" which accomplishes this.  I
try to convince the salespeople that I DON'T CARE HOW I APPEAR TO OTHER
PEOPLE.  I am after that bug-eyed look.  I hope little children will run
away from me.  I really don't want to hear about style and cosmetics.
Of course, they don't believe me and try to sell me extra-flat aspheric
lenses which are more expensive and bring the lenses closer to my eyes.


author: Scott R. Kleppin

subject: Re: Long Eyelashes

text:
If you bend the temple arms down a little, not much, that will move the lens
away from your eyes.  Your best bet is to go to Wal-Mart and tell the
optician your problem and have them adjust your frame for you.

Scott   a.b.o.c.

http://aboc.8m.com

[email] wrote:


subject: Re: Long Eyelashes

text:
[email] wrote:

This is (or should be) a well-known phenomenon among eyecare professionals.
We always referred to this as 'lash crash'.

This is definitely not a well-fit or adjusted frame.  It also could be that
the lenses have a flatter curve than is appropriate for your Rx or frame.  I
suggest you go back to your eyecare provider and complain.  You shouldn't
have to put up with this.  Good luck!

Steve
__
 _          _
/ \._ _|_ o|_) _  _.._ _|  _ _ ._ _   smachol "at" optiboard "dot" com
\_/|_) |_ ||_)(_)(_|| (_|o(_(_)| | |  http://optiboard.com
   |


author: george

subject: lagrange multiplier : anything else than cost optimization ?

text:
Hi,

I'm looking for some nice (original would be bonus) applications of
constrained optimization with lagrange multipliers. I've heard it can
be used in enthropy maximisation problems (the normal distribution has
the most enthropy), have you got any links on this topic or others ?

Thanks alot,

George


author: Peter Spellucci

subject: Re: lagrange multiplier : anything else than cost optimization ?

text:
In article <o2k84t85xg36@legacy>,
 [email] (george) writes:

????? any constraint optimization problem involves Lagrange multipliers
????? or do yuo ask for constraint optimization applications?
????? methods which use the dual variables (the Lagrange multipliers) to solve
????? such problems

be more specific
or look here:
http://www-fp.mcs.anl.gov/otc/Guide/
under
"Case studies"

hth
peter


author: Richard Groff

text:
This is not at all original, but...  I was reviewing some background
material in statistical mechanics recently, and the derivation of the
Boltzmann distribution is a neat combination of combinatorics, the
Stirling approximation to the factorial, and Lagrange multipliers (since
both the number of particles and energy in the system remain constant).
"Physical Chemistry" by Atkins (Ch 19 in the 5th edition) has a nice
discussion.  Unfortunately I don't have any web links on this, but
google's bound to turn up something.

hth,
Rick


author: Will

subject: Re: Japans Moon Ambitions - They're KIDDING, Right ?

text:
Rand Simberg wrote:

Proton the most reliable proven launch system? I don't think so.

Will McLean


author: Rand Simberg

text:
On 2 Mar 2005 09:30:31 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Will"
<[email]> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

If you look at its recent record, I'd bet it is.  What do you think is
better?


text:
On 2 Mar 2005 17:36:43 GMT, in a place far, far away, Jim Davis
<[email]> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

What are the relative stats over the last hundred flights or so?


author: Jim Davis

text:
Rand Simberg wrote:

Atlas II has a perfect record. 58 for 58, I think.

Jim Davis


text:
On 2 Mar 2005 18:41:30 GMT, in a place far, far away, Jim Davis
<[email]> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

Then I guess that would be the winner (though the Proton may have a
longer streak--I'm not sure).

It doesn't really have any influence on my main point, though.


author: Geoff

subject: Unusual Battery Charging System

text:
I'm going to be going into rural Nepal for 8 months starting this
winter. I would like to be able to take pictures for this time.
However, there will be no electricity. I've got a nikon coolpix 4500,
which uses a Li-ion rechargeable battery (#EN-EL1) which is 7.4V /
680mA. The proprietary charger (#MH-53) takes AC at 100-240V and
outputs DC 8.4V / 600mA. The MH-53 supplies only a slightly greater
power than the EN-EL1 (5.04W vs. 5.032W)

Anyway, I'd like to design a design a charger that acts as a
substitute for the EN-EL1. I plan on doing this with a solar panel,
which will probably end up being 7-10W, outputting, ideally at the .6A
that the charger would. However, I suspect that the panel will end up
being quite a variable source, and, as I don't want to damage the
battery, I'll need to stabilize it to outputting at 8.4V/.6A.

Now, I've never done this sort of thing before, but I've taken an E&M
class recently and would be confidant putting anything that's
relatively simple together. Having done some research already I think
that if the panel put off a constant flow at .6A, then I could use
something like the LM338 in conjunction with a few resistors (and
perhaps a potentiometer, in case I'd like to re-use the system for
something else)  to regulate the voltage to the 8.4V. However, this
will probably not be the case. http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM138.pdf
details a 'adjustable current regulator' (on page 12) that looks to be
something, but I don't know. (help?)

Ultimately, is there a self-contained object that I can build that,
having a variable source put into it, outputs a pre-set current at a
pre-set voltage? Or is there no way to get around not having a
constant current to start with?

Thanks for your help.


author: Marlowe

subject: Re: Unusual Battery Charging System

text:
I'm into R/C model airplanes and there has been a lot of news about Li-Poly
batteries exploding and causing fires and other mayhem.  Most of the
problems seem to be caused by crash damage or failures while charging.
Anyway, I have been using Li-Ion cells for some time in my electric powered
planes with no problems, but I take great care in charging them.  I use only
a charger designed for Li-Ion/Li-Poly batteries that are selectable to the
battery capacity and number of cells.  I NEVER leave them charging
unattended or for longer than it takes to recharge the cells (no overnight
charging as we do for our Ni-Cad batteries).

I realize that Li-Ion batteries are used all over the place in many
applications like the ubiquitous cell phones, but do a Goggle search on this
topic and you will see many horror stories.  I once charged a two cell
Li-Ion pack with a Ni-Cad/Ni-MiH designed charger and burned them out (no
explosion) even though I monitored the current and voltage.  Go figure.

"Geoff" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Robert C Monsen

subject: Re: Unusual Battery Charging System

text:
"Geoff" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
4500,
.6A
up
E&M
think
http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM138.pdf
be

Bob Pease of National Semi did something similar, and its documented
here

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/4251/4251.html

His experience might help with your design.

Regards,
 Bob Monsen


author: John Popelish

subject: Re: Unusual Battery Charging System

text:
Geoff wrote:

If you come up with a solar panel that puts out at least 10 volts at
.6 amp, you can make a regulator with an LM317 that lets through only
8.4 volts.  The charger  is in no danger if the regulator can provide
a bit more than .6 amps.  It will consume only the current it needs.
Extra voltage is what will damage it.
Don't forget a small heat sink for the regulator.

You should add a capacitor on the input and output of the regulator as
specified on the data sheet to make sure it is stable.
http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf


subject: Re: Unusual Battery Charging System

text:
More on the safety issue:

Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires
(Added 4/23/04)

Lithium batteries are becoming very popular for powering the control and
power systems in our models. This is true because of their very high energy
density (amp-hrs/wt. ratio) compared to Nickel Cadmium (Ni-Cds) or other
batteries. With high energy comes increased risk in their use.

The principal risk is fire which can result from improper charging, crash
damage, or shorting the batteries. All vendors of these batteries warn their
customers of this danger and recommend extreme caution in their use.

In spite of this many fires have occurred as a result of the use of Lithium
Polymer (Li-Poly) batteries, resulting in loss of models, automobiles, and
other property. Homes and garages and workshops have also burned.

A lithium battery fire is very hot (several thousand degrees) and is an
excellent initiator for ancillary (resulting) fires. Fire occurs due to
contact between lithium and oxygen in the air. It does not need any other
source of ignition or fuel to start, and burns almost explosively.

These batteries must be used in a manner that precludes ancillary fire. The
following is recommended:

1. Store and charge in a fireproof container, never in your model.

2. Charge in a protected area devoid of combustibles. Always stand watch
over the charging process. Never leave the charging process unattended.

3. In the event of damage from crashes, etc., carefully remove to a safe
place for at least a half hour to observe. Physically damaged cells could
erupt into flame. After sufficient time to ensure safety, damaged cells
should be discarded in accordance with the instructions which came with the
batteries. Never attempt to charge a cell with physical damage regardless of
how slight.

4. Always use chargers designed for the specific purpose, preferably having
a fixed setting for your particular pack. Many fires occur in using
selectable/adjustable chargers improperly set. Never attempt to charge
lithium cells with a charger that is not specifically designed for charging
lithium cells. Never use chargers designed for Ni-Cd batteries.

5. Use charging systems that monitor and control the charge state of each
cell in the pack. Unbalanced cells can lead to disaster if it permits
overcharge of a single cell in the pack. If the batteries show any sign of
swelling, discontinue charging and remove them to a safe placeï¿½outsideï¿½as
they could erupt into flames.

6. Most important: NEVER PLUG IN A BATTERY AND LEAVE IT TO CHARGE UNATTENDED
OVERNIGHT. Serious fires have resulted from this practice.

7. Do not attempt to make your own battery packs from individual cells.

These batteries cannot be handled and charged casually such as has been the
practice for years with other types of batteries. The consequence of this
practice can be very serious and result in major property damage and/ or
personal harm.

"Marlowe" <[email]> wrote in message
news:%p0Lc.8867$[email]...
Li-Poly
powered
only
this


author: Axel Harvey

subject: Sic evitabile fulmen

text:
Some members of this group seem knowledgeable in Latin literature.
Could any of them give us the meaning and provenance of the phrase "Sic
evitabile fulmen..." appearing in the original words of "To Anacreon in
Heav'n", John Stafford Smith's club song which was borrowed to make the
Star-Spangled Banner? The entire verse follows (Apollo addresses a
wrathful Jove):

Apollo rose up & said, "Prythee ne'er quarrel,
Good King of the Gods, with my Vot'ries below;
Your thunder is useless"--then showing his laurel,
Cry'd "Sic evitabile fulmen you know!
Then over each head
My laurels I'll spread,
So my sons from your Crackers no mischief shall dread,
      While snug in their clubroom, they jovially entwine
      The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."


author: Phil Dragoman

subject: Re: Sic evitabile fulmen

text:
Axel Harvey wrote in message ...

The meaning is one line above the Latin.  More literally,
Thus avoidable is the lightning-bolt.

As to provenance, I think he made it up.  It's the second
hemistich of a hexameter but I can't find a citation for it.

When I hear that song, I always feel a swell of patriotic pride
knowing that a bunch of boozy colonial bumpkins whacked the
heck out of the British Empire.   BTW, are you guys still a
dominion?   ;-)

Regards,
Phil


subject: Re: Sic evitabile fulmen

text:
On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Phil Dragoman wrote:

Ah! I thought "evitabile" was an adverb, and the three words were a
broken part of a phrase that people would be familiar with ca 1800.
Are "evitabile" and "fulmen" in the same case? If not, is this
lyricist's licence?

There should be an on-line concordance of Latin literature on the Web
--it's not *that* huge if you cut it off ca 300.

No, we are now just plain "Canada", and we were not yet a Dominion in
the war which gave rise to the famous borrowed song. You couldn't whack
the British hard enough to put an end to our existence, fortunately.


author: John O'Flaherty

subject: Re: Sic evitabile fulmen

text:
Axel Harvey wrote:

According to the Perseus site (see below),  fulmen is a neuter nominative
singular noun, and evitabile is an adjective that agrees with it.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu
has Greek, Latin and English texts, searchable by word.
A search on 'fulmen' found 166 occurrences, the closest of which is here:

                29) P. Ovidius Naso, Metamorphoses (ed. Hugo Magnus) book
3, line 296 - book 3, line 299
                Ergo maestissimus altum
                aethera conscendit vultuque sequentia traxit
                nubila, quis nimbos inmixtaque fulgura ventis
                addidit et tonitrus et inevitabile fulmen.


subject: Re: Sic evitabile fulmen

text:
On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, John O'Flaherty wrote:

Thank you!!!

I think that confirms my suspicion. The Metamorphoses would have been a
classroom chesnut. Smith's Apollo is playing with it.


author: [redacted]

subject: generator power?

text:
Looking for a good generator/welder. Just for typical
emergency use, but want to have quite a bit of power so I
don't have the hassle of plugging and unplugging things to
run them. Thought the additional welding option is cool.

Any suggestions?

Nick


subject: Re: generator power?

text:
The Miller Bobcat 225NT.  For a little over 2,000 Dollars you get a 8000
Watt....8500 Watt peak.....225 Amp stick welder.
My electric one night went off for six hours and it came in handy.
You can wire it to a box so that when the electric shuts off....You can throw a
switch and power your house.  I just run an extension cord to mine.
Hope this helps
Tim


author: Roy Jenson

subject: Re: generator power?

text:
You really need to have a better idea of what you want to run on
the genset side. 4kw or 5 kw is about the minimum for running
equipment, it may not have enough power to start heavy starting
load things like air comperssors, etc. Typical price for the low
end models is in the $500 range. Bump that to 8kw to 10kw if you
have serious power outage requirements.

A couple other replies mentioned heavy duty use for days on end.
You pay your money and you get better engines and copper cores.

For the low end, Lincoln has a 'Powermate 400' which is 4kw plus
130 amps of AC welder for $850 or so.

[email] wrote:


author: Gary Coffman

subject: Re: generator power?

text:
On 26 Aug 2002 00:17:10 -0400, [email] wrote:

Miller Bobcat or Lincoln Ranger 8.

I have the Bobcat, on a trailer. I installed a transfer switch for
my power panel that can be plugged into the Bobcat to safely
power the critical loads in the house during power outages.
I've run it for up to 10 hours at a time (as a safety measure,
I shut down to refuel). 9 kW, 120 and 240 VAC. It is also a
fine welder (225A CC AC and 210A CC DC for stick or TIG,
14 to 28 V CV for MIG).

Gary


author: RDF

subject: Re: generator power?

text:
Nick,

    Get yourself a Miller. The Bobcat is incredible, they also make smaller
portable ones about the same size as a work-site generator.   But since you
want a bigger one look here for what suits you... Millers are super easy to
service too...
http://millerwelds.com/main/products/enginedriven/  There are a bunch of
dealers that sell on E-Bay and offer FREE shipping, Not to be a dick but the
E-bay guys beat my shop by at least 10% and I get a "break"..... It's worth
a look.

            Peace,
                Rob

<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: generator power?

text:
Just don't forget to shut off the main breaker to the house if you back-feed
it (Or get a $1000.00 transfer switch ).... The fire dept. will fix the rest
of the problem if you don't do one of the cut offs! I do the same thing but
I only wish I had a Bobcat! It's just a lowly-little generator on my
budget....

                   Rob
"WStormchaser68" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
throw a


author: Jay Duthler

subject: Re: generator power?

text:
I to would recommend the Bobcat, I purchased a 250NT last winter due
to an ice storm and ran it for 80 hours only stopping for fuel every
nine hours and oil level checks. The thing that impressed me was it is
rated at this load at 104 degree F. Even in the middle of winter I
heard stories of lesser gensets burning up (the gen portion) after
extended use. Since I have done some stick work with it and used it to
power a small 220 MIG machine for use far from the mains.

Gary Coffman <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: Marc Andelman

subject: Re: UCLA short course on "Inventing, Patenting, and Licensing"

text:
[email] wrote:

Will this course explain what business universities have owning
goverment, tax paid for patents?  This clearly belongs in the
public domain. Someone should take the Bayh Doyl act to court.
You are a bunch of thieves.  Moreover, the government is paying
for myriad  nusciance patents which devalue technological R&D
in industry.  Money is fungible, and if it is more profitable to
invest in, say, a hamburger chain or government paper, then that
is where the money will go. Say goodby to technological employmeny,
unless you want to be some university hack.

Regards,
Marc Andelman


author: David Pasquill

subject: Re: "There ain't no global warming." say fatcats & right wing & Letter Addition ++++++++++++++++++++++

text:
That is a global average. I guess you could argue soemone chose bad locations for the
measurements that got averaged, but hopefully the
who did the work had brains. Like I said TIme magazine is the source if you want to
pursue it further.

Dave

Shaun wrote:


author: Michael

subject: Dallas DS3231 RTC; known stability/accuracy issues?

text:
This device is billed as "Extremely Accurate" and with stability +-2ppm (at 0 to 40C).  Everything
I've read in the data sheet - features as well as stability - fills the bill for my uses.  However,
having read several reports in the past about poor stability of DS32KHZ (accurate 32KHz source), I
feel somewhat wary about the claims made for DS3231.  Yes, I could just run some tests... but this
is no jelly bean; DigiKey gets US$7+ apiece in singles.  Getting samples seems to be out of the
question; Dallas has never sent samples of anything I requested, presumably because I am not a
company.

So, does anyone here have first-hand experience with DS3231 and care to share?   I'd be interested
to hear about:
1) short/long-term stability
2) accuracy
3) ease/difficulity/impossibility of synching the RTC's Freq-Out to a primary timing source's Second
pulse.
4) any functional characteristics that were unexpected, anomalous.

---
Michael


subject:
I forgot to say ...Re: Dallas DS3231 RTC; known stability/accuracy
 issues?

text:
Upon reflection, I think my original post sounds like a solicitation of comments that I will
substitute for doing testing myself.  It isn't.  I certainly will test it, eventually, but I don't
want to invest any time and effort in this part if it has known problems that render it unsuitable
for my uses.  Sorry for any misunderstanding.

---
Michael


author: Jean-Yves

subject: Re: Dallas DS3231 RTC; known stability/accuracy issues?

text:
In article <[email]>, Michael <[email]> wrote:

sorry for you but dallas (in fact maxim) is as far as I know the only
company that sends samples even to private no company user without
asking anything !!!


text:
Jean-Yves wrote:

That sure makes me feel good ...... not!

Actually, each of my requests for DalSemi samples went out some years ago, to DalSemi.  It was long
before Maxim entered the DalSemi picture.

The only DalSemi stuff that I receive in the mail is unsolicited brochures sealed in plastic mailing
bags, and never about a device that interests me.


text:
In article <[email]>, Michael <[email]> wrote:

so if it was years ago, please try a sample request to maxim.com and
wait 10 days or so before asking here again ?
it seems you're in the usa so not a "forbidden" country for them to send
samples.
I never tried samples from dalsemi but for sure it was really old...;)
best regards,


subject: Another newbie question-this one about routing

text:
I am using Garmin's nRoute software, which as I understand it draws on
MapSource for its routing.

I have noticed what seems to me like a strange anomaly in the
production of routes.  I asked for a route from my home to a certain
golf course, with a certain motel as a way point.  (The direct
route.)  I then set separately routes from my home to the motel and
from the motel to the golf course (the segmented routes).

When I compared the two routings, I noticed that the direct route was
not the same as the sum of the segmented routes.  The direct route
took me to the motel, then put me on the road to the golf course.  The
segmented route put me initially on the same road to the golf course.
But at the very end the two routes diverged; and while the divergence
was, essentially, going up opposite sides of a rectangle, nRoute
computed the trip as part of the direct route as requiring seven
seconds less than the segmented route from the hotel to the golf
course.

Now, seven seconds is not going to change my life; but I can't
understand why, both routes having been set for "fastest time", the
segmented routing would compute a route seven seconds slower than a
clearly available alternative.

The anomaly was more significant when I looked at the longer route
from my home to the motel.  In this case again different routing was
chosen although in both cases I asked for the fastest route.  This
time the segmented route was seven minutes shorter in time than the
direct route; and that is enough to notice.

Why would routing software select two different routes from the same
point of origin to the same waypoint/destination when fastest has been
requested in both cases?  And when planning a trip, must I put in a
variety of routes segmented differently and then compare them to get
the optimal routing (of course, this process would have taken longer
than the seven minutes the longer computed route would have cost me)?

There is in fact a difference between the specifications for the two
routes; one has some intermediate waypoints listed, along the portion
of the route that is identical in both calculations.  I've found by
experimenting that inclusion of just one intermediate waypoint,
whether 400 miles from the destination or 50, results in the more time-
consuming route being computed.  I haven't done the experiment, but
think this may have happened with another route, which changed after I
inserted an intermediate waypoint.  But why?

And the use of intermediate waypoints was not involved in the slightly
different routes between the motel and the golf course.

Gary Williams


author: Ted Edwards

subject: Re: Another newbie question-this one about routing

text:
[email] wrote:
I have also noticed some serious anomalies in routing.  It is a tough
problem and far from solved.  I get some truly ridiculous routings if
divided hiways are involved.

Ted


author: David G. Nagel

text:
Ted Edwards wrote:
Ted and Bill;

I don't have a definitive answer to your question but most likely the
difference is a result of round in the  math computations. They
accumulate differently.

Dave N


author: Roman Bystrianyk

text:
Anita Weier, "Prunes may strengthen bones after menopause", Capital
Times, January 13, 2007,
Link: http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=114801&ntpid=5

Could prunes reverse bone loss after menopause?

A professor at Florida State University thinks so, and is starting a
test aimed at proving what preliminary findings show.

Professor Bahram Arjmandi previously conducted studies that indicated
that prunes restored lost bone in rats. A following study found that
blood profiles indicative of bone health increased in postmenopausal
women who ate prunes.

"Prune-eating slowed bone breakdown and helped bone formation," he said
in a phone interview Friday. "That is not done by most other foods."

Arjmandi - who prefers to call prunes dried plums - said it is vital to
expand the range of effective treatment options for osteoporosis,
because 10 million Americans have the debilitating disease and another
34 million are at risk.

Postmenopausal women are particularly susceptible to fractures due to
osteoporotic bone loss, and up to 20 percent of that loss can occur
within just five to seven years after menopause, he said.

The one-year clinical study at FSU will involve 144 Florida women. Half
of the women will supplement their daily diets with nine or 10 prunes.
The other half will consume a comparable portion of dried apples, which
also have known health benefits. Participants also will take daily
supplements of calcium and Vitamin D. No one will be getting a placebo,
and everyone will benefit in some manner, he said.

"If the findings are positive, they could help researchers isolate the
compounds responsible," he said. "It may be possible to create a safe,
low-cost alternative or adjunct to prescription medications for
osteoporosis."

If the study succeeds in increasing bone density, he would conduct a
larger and longer study focusing on fracture outcomes, Arjmandi added.

Prunes and prune juice have a number of health benefits, with the best
known being reduction of constipation.

E-mail: [email]


author: klibros

subject: Re: Prunes may strengthen bones -again

text:
Just read these posts about studies of prunes.

Some studies go back over 7 years...they began with rodents. First
they did female rats and then male's who were deficient in hormones.
Then there was a study published in 2002 with human beings.

The study with human beings found that 100 gr made a difference. -
that's a good deal of prunes and some folks find that the effects are
too much of a laxitive.

If you want to read the chemistry and summary of the studies, there's
been a page at
http://www.osteopenia3.com/Osteopenia-dried-plums.html   for a couple
months.

I have wondered, given the study of male rats with low male homones,
if this would be a good thing for men with bone loss.  I am hoping
that the researchers at Oklahoma will be encouraged to do a study of
men.

Kate
www.osteopenia.com

toci wrote:


author: toci

subject: Re: Prunes may strengthen bones after menopause

text:
Maybe it's worth trying it now- I don't have the time to wait for the
results to be in.  I assume that's a test where they don't stop
everything because the science went wrong.  I already eat dried
apricots and raisins in eighth cup amounts,    Toci
Roman Bystrianyk wrote:


author: M Fielding

subject: New technology found

text:
Our researchers have come across a new metal in Papua Guinea. 15x
stronger than steel. With hard work we have made the top of the line
weapons for any army. These weapons will work longer and harder than
any ever. We have 1,000,000 in stock of speacial top of the line
machine guns. We call them PG 001 They go for 1,000 each. Any one
wanting to buy our weapondry may do so by posting and they will have
lifetime warranty on our items so get your money back if you are not
satisfied.


author: Robert J. Kolker

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
M Fielding wrote:

No doubt left by the Aliens when their flying saucers took off.

Bob Kolker


author: Francis Harrington

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
"M Fielding" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Yes, I've heard of this stuff. The PG001 will fire a round of bullshit
out to a maximum range of about 17 feet.


subject: Re: New technology found

text:
"M Fielding" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
 They go for 1,000 each.

1,000 what? 1,000 pieces of donkey doo-doo?


author: Bruce

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
In sci.physics
[email] (M Fielding) wrote:

I'll buy all 1,000,000 after verifying your claims.


author: Uncle Al

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
M Fielding wrote:

Riiight.  Whose butt did you mine?

Riiight.  15X stronger than which steel?  What does "stronger" mean?

Riiiight.  You made and stockpiled a weapon not under contract, using
money out of your own pocket.  Riiiight.  Given that each gun assembly
occupies merely one cubic foot of crate volume, you then have some
38,000 cubic yards of crated inventory.  Riiiight.

10^3 WHAT each?  A yen isn't the same thing as a Euro.  What caliber,
Poindexter?  What ballistic specs, Nimrod?

You may not sell military hardware without first receiving an end-user
certificate signed by at least an embassy official.  If you do,
somebody expecting a Federal pension will flush your remains down a
sewer.


author: Repeating Decimal

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
in article [email], M Fielding at
[email] wrote on 11/30/03 2:53 PM:

This alloy was on the first and only cargo plane sent to fulfill cargo cult
expectations. Because it crashed upon landing, the program was ended early.
That was the entire stock.

Bill


author: Mu-Pi

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
"M Fielding" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Crank.

*Plonk*


author: Chris

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
"M Fielding" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Anyone else think this guy is playing Star Wars Galixies?


author: Gregory L. Hansen

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
In article <[email]>,
M Fielding <[email]> wrote:

Although a metal that's 15x stronger than steel would be impressive and
desirable, why would anyone think a machine gun would be improved by it?
Don't sell machine guns, sell the metal.


author: Double-A

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
[email] (M Fielding) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

What country are you running these guns out off?

Double-A


author: Richard Herring

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
In message <[email]>, Double-A
<[email]> writes

whois -h magic 146.7.115.219
Trying whois -h whois.arin.net 146.7.115.219

OrgName:    Southwest Missouri State University
OrgID:      SMSU
Address:    901 S. National Avenue
City:       Springfield
StateProv:  MO
PostalCode: 65804-0087
Country:    US

NetRange:   146.7.0.0 - 146.7.255.255
CIDR:       146.7.0.0/16
NetName:    SMSU
NetHandle:  NET-146-7-0-0-1
Parent:     NET-146-0-0-0-0
NetType:    Direct Assignment
NameServer: NUMBERS.SMSU.EDU
NameServer: LOTTO.SMSU.EDU
NameServer: JUPITER.CC.UMR.EDU
Comment:
RegDate:    1991-01-16
Updated:    2000-11-29

TechHandle: MFH4-ARIN
TechName:   Harsen, Mark F
TechPhone:  +1-417-836-4392
TechEmail:  [email]

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-11-30 19:15
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.


author: Bruce Sinclair

subject: Re: New technology found

text:
In article <[email]>, "Chris" <[email]> wrote:

"New technology found" ... isn't that the message you get in Master of
orion (MOO) when you first discover an artifact planet ? :) :)

It's classic gaming stuff to me :)

Bruce

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyoneï¿½s fault.
If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, Iï¿½m one of Us. I must be.
Iï¿½ve certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
of themselves as one of Them. Weï¿½re always one of Us. Itï¿½s Them that do
the bad things.		<=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.


author: Von Fourche

subject: Re: CEV command module mockup interior pictures

text:
"Rusty" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

    More important, where's the bathroom?


author: Jeff Findley

text:
"Von Fourche" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9jODf.8913$[email]...

Perhaps NASA will resort to the Apollo CM style bathroom?  The advantage is
that it saves space.  The disadvantages, on the other hand...

Jeff


author: Scott Hedrick

text:
"Jeff Findley" <[email]> wrote in message
news:49565$43dfc9b2$927a2ce9$[email]...

It has a built-in glove. If stuff gets on your hand, you're either not using
it properly, or you have a more severe problem.


author: Greg D. Moore (Strider

text:
"Jeff Findley" <[email]> wrote in message
news:49565$43dfc9b2$927a2ce9$[email]...
is

Or is that on the gripping hand...


author: DT

subject: Re: RATS or ALLEGIANCE? - pig.jpg (0/1)

text:
Amazing Spatitch : I wasen`t posting to you . Only the sentence about you
popping your head out of Alan`s spinach producer ,  ( peeeyou!) .
You are sooo negitive . Please remember this is an open NG with children
possibly here ( me included)....can you clean up the language ?
   Still paranoid about the gay thing huh ? Nobody`s out to "get" cha Spin .
                  OK...lets be positive now....Doggie Titties was a good one
...
                 Delta Turkey wasen`t as funny but you gave it a good try
...
                  Dirty Tongue was a real belly laugh !
                  Donkey Tail...so , so
    You watch it now or you`ll be washing your own mouth out with soap .
Poopy mouth !
                              DT

"Spinach - OT Weed" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

                         I was not talking to you
                       I was not talking to you .

                      You don`t agree with him and never had the nerve to
say it . Afraid he wouldn`t let you
                      hide your head in his "secret place " ?

                            Wow...whad you say ?

                                Oh my God...Don`t do that fer Chrissakes !
Not that Spingaybasher !

                       He has...your just too lame to either know or admit
it . Wasen`t it a nice NG last
                      year..don`t remember ? Pre-Wix shit ?

                  Post anything your little mind desires . Who`s stoppin ya
?
                  He was an asshole , I said so . You sat on the fence and
kissed his ass like a good little boy .
                   Are you sure your not...you know...limp in the wrist ?

                Sure...I`ve said my piece...so peace .

                 No asshole , Alan is King of the NG..( Sheesh!)...are you
so screwed up on your Prozit that you can`t comprehend a post now ?

                               Boy , you got me on that witty comeback !
Read the hunting post Spindork .

                           Oh my God ! You bragged about lil ol ME ! I`m
soooo proud ! Try and publish some of that trite boring
                           crap . Oooooo , he spoke my name in his "
writings " ! Please don`t call those
                           things stories ....their idiotic  boring
ramblings from an old wannabie .

                              DT


author: Spinach - OT Weed

subject: Re: RATS or ALLEGIANCE? - pig.jpg (0/1)

text:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:57:52 -0400, "DT" <[email]> Wrote:

You spew it all over don't you?

Go back and reread the post or leave the quote in so notes can be
compared.

I'm a good speeler two!

Ok

No, why do you keep bringing that topic up? You is a mental mass of
tangled empty self. Go back and re-read my post will ya?

Oh you are speaking for everyone, you are thinking again eh? Be
careful. Don't damage yer knees either. You might need those for when
you get older.
Did you like that one? Good, I thought so.
Well like you say it is an effort.

I didn't thinkit was that funny but if you got off on it, kewl.

Yeah

The only way that would work is if you helped me. ;-)

Spinach


author: Firebird

subject: Re: RATS or ALLEGIANCE? - pig.jpg (0/1)

text:
In article <3999bc58$0$62232$[email]>, [email]
(DT) wrote:

What a stupid statement, Donald!  You posted to a newsgroup so anybody can
comment on your trash, anytime they like.  Why don't you go post to
alt.sport.bowling again.  They like you down there too!  Didn't they tell
you where to stick your bowling ball?

Alan


subject: Re: RATS or ALLEGIANCE? - pig.jpg (0/1)

text:
In article <3999bc58$0$62232$[email]>, [email]
(DT) wrote:

It finally clicked today DT!  There is no Mrs DT is there?  That's why
you, WA and David can go off together so easily.  All the coming-on to
Lana was just a blind wasn't it?  Well your secret is safe with me, DT!  I
won't enlighten Spinach!  He'll never guess will he?  That's why you are
so protective of David; acting like I was hurting your lover or something.

Alan


author: Keith F. Lynch

subject: DC area cryonics meeting 9/18

text:
On Sunday September 18th, the Life Extension Society, a DC area cryonics
group, will meet at 2 pm at Exhibits Inc at 4929 Wyaconda Road in
Bethesda Maryland, near Rockville Pike, and near the White Flint Metro
station.

More detailed directions on request.

The main topic will be forming a rapid response on-site stabilization
service for east coast people signed up with another cryonics
organization, all of which are remote from the east coast.


author: Paul Robinson

subject: Re: DC area cryonics meeting 9/18

text:
Keith F. Lynch ([email]) wrote:
: On Sunday September 18th, the Life Extension Society, a DC area cryonics
: group, will meet at 2 pm at Exhibits Inc at 4929 Wyaconda Road in
: Bethesda Maryland, near Rockville Pike, and near the White Flint Metro
: station.

There goes the neighborhood.  This bunch gives me a cold feeling when I
think about them, very cold feeling.

****
NOTICE: I reserve the right to ignore or PUBLICLY POST any vicious or
nasty E-Mail; irregardless of any statements in your messages to the
contrary; by sending responses in violation of this paragraph you
unconditionally consent to this condition.  You have been warned.


author: Gary D. Conley

subject: sodium borohydride anyone?

text:
I'm in deep research but need to cut a few corners. As debate seems the
general theme here, can anyone rip up or support sodium borohydride for
hydrogen storage ala Millenium's approach? I'm not asking anyone to read for
me but if you have data off the cuff, I'd certainly appreciate it.

http://www.millenniumcell.com/news/hod.html

...saw it in the Paris show review
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/17890/story.htm

Gary D. Conley
H2GO


subject: Re: sodium borohydride anyone?

text:
If you look at their chart showing how much hydrogen can be stored by
NaBH4 in water solution, you will see that it doesn't get much above 4
- 7 percent by weight.  Compressed gas cylinders can store up to 11.3
percent hydrogen by weight.  It may be safer than compressed gas, but
it probably wastes alot of energy chemically binding hydrogen to
borax.

That means that it doesn't matter whether you are using compressed gas
cylinders or Millennium Cell's NaBH4 solution, the fuel tank of a
hydrogen fuelled vehicle will be around 10-times the mass of the fuel
it is carrying.

Small qualtities of hydrogen can be made by electrolyzing water, but
ultimately hydrogen is made in bulk quantities from natural gas, a
fossil fuel.  Energy is lost in the natural gas reforming process,
meaning that just using natural gas in a vehicle is better.  A
compressed gas cylinder is also used to store natural gas.  Either way
you are simply using fossil fuel in a more creative way, one that
probably won't solve any long-term problems, either with supply or
with the environment.

There is a better solution IMO.  Fossil fuels originally came from
biomass.  Million-year old biomass gives us a black tar-like substance
called oil.  Freshly-grown biomass can be made into ethanol.  Ethanol
is superior to gasoline in a number of ways, although it only contains
2/3rds as much energy per gallon.  For example it will clean an engine
of combustion residues and make the engine last 2-3 times longer.  It
also has a higher oxygen content - owing to the OH alcohol group in
its molecules - meaning that it burns more completely and generates
fewer emissions.  It also comes from biomass, meaning that with each
annual crop, all the CO2 released into the atmosphere from motor
vehicle emissions is re-absorbed in the growth of plants.  Therefore
you may call biomass ethanol a zero net emissions fuel.  But what
makes ethanol really interesting is that it is a liquid fuel at room
temperature, so unlike natural gas or hydrogen, gallons of ethanol can
be stored in a featherweight plastic container.   This means fuel
storage will not increase the weight of vehicles running on ethanol,
and energy consumption is directly related to vehicle mass, ie. via
the fundamental equaltion for kinetic energy.  Not only is ethanol a
superior fuel for internal combustion engines, but ethanol can also be
used in Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells (DLEFC), available from Medis
Technologies in New York (www.medistechnologies.com).  Even without
special fuel cells or flexible fuel vehicles, you can mix up to 10%
ethanol with gasoline without making *any* modifications to an engine,
and range is not affected.  Meanwhile you displace 10 percent of
gasoline consumption.

Biomass grown for ethanol production, dubbed "energy crops" compete
with food crops for land use.  That means we should turn to the oceans
to grow biomass for energy.  There are many options for crop
varieties, and the potential is obvious since the oceans cover 70% of
earth's surface.  Plants adapted to saltwater can utilize solar energy
to make cellulose & hemicellulose, the two most abundant substances
made by living things, and which can also be converted into
fermentable sugars to make ethanol.   You certainly couldn't cover as
much area with solar panels or wind turbines as you could with
aquaculture operations.

So as I've said in earlier posts.....  Hydrogen is obsolete !

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:55:06 GMT, "Gary D. Conley" <[email]>
wrote:


author: Don Lancaster

subject: Re: sodium borohydride anyone?

text:
"Gary D. Conley" wrote:

There was bunches of classified research done in the late 1950's on
lithium and sodium borohydrides. I knew one person who almost blew
Callery, Pennsylvania off the map during the research.

As far as I know, the research was thorough and not much ever came of
it.


author: Graham Cowan

subject: Re: sodium borohydride anyone?

text:
"Gary D. Conley" wrote:

I was just talking about NaBH4/NaBO2
in the "more efficient electrolysis" thread,
in my reply to Don Widders.

--- Graham Cowan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html --
a good way for cars to gain nuclear cachet


author: Dean Hoffman

subject: Re: sodium borohydride anyone?

text:
On 9/25/02 9:28 PM, in article [email],
"Success_Machine" <[email]> wrote in part:

   There really isn't any competition between food crops and "ethanol"
crops. There is usually an excess of feed grains in the U.S.  We can't
export enough of them to other countries due to foreign competition.  That's
why there is such a big push in farm states to use crops for ethanol.  The
ethanol programs just use up some of the excess.

                               Dean


author: Don Widders

subject: Re: sodium borohydride anyone?

text:
"Dean Hoffman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
That's
...written as if this "excess" is free!  A lot of fossil fuel was used in
creating the ammonia-based fertilizers and in cultivating and bringing the
crops to market.  The only reason "excess" crops are produced is because of
price supports.  Without price supports (such as ethanol programs) only the
amount of corn the market will buy would be cultivated.  Artificial price
supports are a form of thievery whereby politicians take our money and give
it to farmers for doing (or not doing) something that didn't need to be
done.

Don W.