author: Mark A

subject: Re: Progressive:

text:
"DP" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

When buying progressives there are 3 things to consider in the product:

- Brand (Varilux, Hoya, Rodenstock, Zeiss, Sola, Younger, etc)

- Model (Panamic, Comfort, Liberty, etc) all 3 of these are Varilux

- Lens Material (1.50 regular plastic, Trivex 1.53, Spectralite 1.54.
polycarb 1.59, 1.60 plastic, 1.66/1.67 plastic, 1.71 plastic, etc). Note
that Trivex is sold as Hoya Phoenix or Younger Image brand name materials.
Not all materials are available in all models, and some are proprietary to
particular brands (for example, Spectralite is available for Sola/AO branded
products).

With progressives, fitting is extremely important, so make sure you purchase
from qualified opticians, and make sure there is a 100% money back guarantee
if you are not completely satisfied.

For best advice from this forum, post your exact prescription, and your past
experience with progressives (if any), and you lifestyle considerations
(age, computer use, etc).

Regardless of your situation, I not would recommend that you not get
polycarbonate lens material. If you need safety lenses, then get Trivex
(Hoya Phoenix or Younger Image).


author: Ste

subject: Capacitance theory of gravity - interesting theory

text:
Just wondering if anyone has ever come across this before:

http://www.econ.iastate.edu/tesfatsi/MFSPears/

Seems like quite a compelling theory, with numbers matching apparently
too nicely for it to be totally devoid of sense.


author: bert

subject: Re: Capacitance theory of gravity - interesting theory

text:
On Feb 17, 6:34 pm, eric gisse <[email]> wrote:

If Gravity was electrostatic like static electricity it would be no
mystery. I find it how low wit thinkers can post this shit time after
time. Have they no shame? Go figure  TreBert


author: eric gisse

text:
Ste wrote:

"Abstract: Gravity is electrostatic."

No.

Remember how you said you don't know much about physics? Learn some physics,
then learn why these ideas are wrong.


author: PD

text:
On Feb 17, 11:20 am, Ste <[email]> wrote:

Which numbers did you think were compelling?


author: Uncle Al

text:
Ste wrote:

"Abstract: Gravity is electrostatic."

The author is commended for ending the horror three words into his
abstract.

  1) A grounded Faraday cage does not shield gravity.
  2) A grounded conductive solid wall Faraday room with layers of EM
and magnetic capacitive, inductive, independent multifoliar soft
ferromagnetic, and impedance of free space lossy materials does not
shield gravity.  That's an Eotvos balance capsule boys and girls, good
to 1 part in 20 trillion relative sensitivity
  3) A closed Type I or II superconductive envelope does not shield
gravity, internally or otherwise.  Podkletnov lied.
  4) idiot


text:
On 17 Feb, 17:31, dlzc <[email]> wrote:

He does actually describe the attraction of neutrons by gravity.


author: mpalenik

text:
On Feb 17, 3:01 pm, Ste <[email]> wrote:

Ok, the point was actually that even at a cursory glance, I can tell
his model would get those things wrong.  Not to mention the other
ridiculous, demonstrably false statements.


author: Brad Guth

text:
On Feb 17, 9:20 am, Ste <[email]> wrote:

Well, there's an average of roughly 2e20 N worth of capacitance force
or energy existing between Earth and our moon(Selene).

 ~ BG


text:
On Feb 17, 3:01 pm, Ste <[email]> wrote:

There was a guy in the 19th century who derived the fine structure
constant from pure theoretical considerations.  He got exactly 1/136,
which was about what people thought it was at the time.

Later, some more accurate measurements came out, and they measured
something closer to 1/137.  He redid his calculations and it turned
out there was an error, his calculations *actually* showed that the
fine structure constant was 1/137.

With even better measurements in modern times, we know that it is
neither of those and have the denominator measured out to many decimal
places.


text:
On Feb 17, 2:01 pm, Ste <[email]> wrote:

What you are observing is numerology, the ability to approximately
produce numbers from other numbers by an arbitrary and capricious
arrangement of them.

Some things you should ask yourself:
- G is supposed to be a *universal* constant, applicable in all
situations. Yet it is derived here from a *particular* arrangement of
two very special particles and the relationship falls apart as soon as
you substitute any two other particles.
- It is claimed that the equality stems from balancing the
electrostatic and gravitational forces, and yet there is no
observation that the two particles *would* be balanced in the
configuration shown (and in fact they are not). Thus there is a claim
of equality where there isn't any evidence of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology

You might also check on Bode-Titius.


text:
On Feb 17, 12:20 pm, Ste <[email]> wrote:

I haven't looked at it closely, and I can't right now because I have
to give a presentation in about an hour, but it looks incredibly
crankish, and I don't really want to give it a longer look.  If you
can show me that he demonstrates these things, though, I would give it
a second look:

1) That he can reproduce the calculation of the perhihelion of mercury
with his model (which Newtonian gravity, that falls off exactly as 1/
r^2, just like in electrostatics, cannot)
2) That he can account for what is really producing the time dilation
in GPS satelites which matches the predictions of GR (since in his
model, it can't be gravity).
3) That it predicts black holes of the correct radius


author: dlzc

text:
Dear Ste:

On Feb 17, 10:20 am, Ste <[email]> wrote:

I especially like how he derived the "velocity" of light from
permittivity and permeability, and seemed to want to take credit for
this as a personal success and "justification".  His method fails to
describe the attraction of neutrons by gravity.  So it is yet another
dead end, unfortunately.

David A. Smith


text:
On Feb 17, 12:31 pm, dlzc <[email]> wrote:

OMG-- epsilon_0*mu_0 = 1/c^2!!! I don't believe it!  Why has no one
seen this before?

Wait, no. . . never mind.  That's why electromagnetic waves travel at
the speed of light.

Shoot, I really thought he was on to something.


text:
Brad Guth wrote:

Which is it, stooopid, force or energy?

Do you really think the average reader is so goddamned stooopid to
believe the immense sustained charge separation over 230,000 miles
distance separation necessary for your idiot claim sustains without
every pair of pith balls on Earth diverging?


author: brad

subject: TV over singlemode

text:
I would like to send CH-2 over singlemode fiber and display on a
regular TV at recieve end. Any suggestions?


author: Heath Young

subject: Re: TV over singlemode

text:
Yeah - tune your VCR to channel2, get an A/V infra-red sender, get your
optic fibre, couple it to the transmitter and the reciever and you are
done.

Easy huh!

Cheers
Heath Young

brad wrote:


author: Don Stauffer

subject: Re: TV over singlemode

text:
Why single-mode?  It is much harder to deal with, and only needed if you
are going a considerable distance.  In fact, you didn't mention the
distance.

In order to use cheaper fiber, detect the video (reduce to baseband) and
send the baseband video rather than the RF frequency.  Use a VCR, and
take the video out and send that signal, not the 60 MHz stuff.

brad wrote:


subject: Re: TV over singlemode

text:
I work at a mining operation and the singlemode provides a connection
to a remote camp for LAN and Telephone and other data. Managers are
looking to install the infomation channel of our inhouse TV system in
this remote camp. We only need the one channel. I don't need the RF. I
have been looking at IFS.com for solutions.

Don Stauffer <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: cherish

subject: START A NEW MEDICAL TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY

text:
My name is Dr. Rakshith.  I'm from Bangalore, India. I am interested in
starting my own Medical Transcripton Company.  I have about 5,000 sqft
area with 60 computers. I have 4-1/2 yrs experience in the field of
Medical Transcription. I am looking for direct contract from US.
Anybody is welcome to provide me with information regarding this
subject.

My contact details are;
E-mail : [email]   and  [email]


author: Sheila

subject: Re: START A NEW MEDICAL TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY ATTN:  Shanx

text:
Hi Rakshith:

If you want to set up a company do not ask these old hags.  Trust me.
This group is a bunch of old hags, sitting all day, worrying about
their work going to India.  This place is no resource on the industry
and frankly don't enter this industry.  I have been in it for 7 years
and I see myself becoming like these old women in some years.  This
profession pays little in America too, actually it's considered a
clerical job so you are dealing with a lot of loser denial here.

Try animation instead.  I am telling you.  Better go for a call center.

P.S. Shanx if you want your slimy ass accepted over here, you got to
tell them you and I are different people.  Ha ha...bechaara Rakshith
bhi maara jaayega.  Chal bata apni asaliyat.

cherish wrote:


subject: Re: START A NEW MEDICAL TRANSCRIPTION COMPANY

text:
have you ever had a Punjabi thappad on your face?  Ask queenie Janice,
she got friends in India to translate for her.  I'd love to throw one
on your f****kin face.  ha ha ha ha  One thapppad and you'll be back to
senses.  Old hag.

Barbara Carlson wrote:


text:
You are the old woman who was talking about Sharpies once right?  How
are you doing old woman?  You want advice on new dentures too
Maaaaaaaaaaaaargie????   I have advice on lingerie for old women...you
know...stuff that keeps it from dropping down to earth?  Bitch!

Margie wrote:


text:
May be your hubby wanted to Bam Wham Thank You Ma'am with her....With a
wife like you, I wudn't be surprised :-)

Bam wrote:


text:
"Nah, he wasn't into animals"

Probably that's why you go without sex every night!
Methinks...bestiality is not a good thing!!!!

Bam wrote:


author: Margie

text:
Wow, 60 computers.  No mention of any people to sit at them, though.
Good luck.

Margie

On 29 Aug 2006 01:52:49 -0700, "cherish" <[email]>
wrote:


author: Bam

text:
There's some really nice people here-- one named Sheila who could REALLY
help you out. She's a whiz!!


text:
Was I mistaken? You aren't nice?  Perhaps I made an error in my
recommendation.

And for the record I retired my bitch.... her name was Sheila and I just
couldn't handle the drooling she did all around the house.


text:
I've been called a Bitch.  I can die happy now.

Margie

On 30 Aug 2006 12:35:21 -0700, "Sheila" <[email]>
wrote:


text:
Nah, he wasn't into animals :)  Methinks someone needs to practice her
English.....

 .com...
REALLY


author: Bambi C.

text: Oh yes!  She could cover medical transcription AND public relations for you!


author: Blupencl

text:
Bam Wrote:
This person is SO in need of her meds! You can tell when she drops
them, every time.


author: Barbara Carlson

text:
That one needed a spew warning!

Barb C.
"Bambi C." <[email]> wrote in message
news:IH6Jg.838$[email]...


author: Jill

subject: metzer farms?

text:
has anyone here used Metzer farms for stock?
what are their birds like as potential breed stock?
rather than do this on group
if anyone has good or bad to say
please could you email me
[email]

they may be a potential place to import from
They sound good for adding some production vigour into UK breeding lines
but its difficult to know with out some personal experience

I have tried some searches for opinions but no luck

would anyone in the UK be interested if we did this?
cheers


author: Krys Francis

subject: Re: metzer farms?

text:
I'd be interested. Please let us know what you find out.
Krys

In message <[email]>, Jill
<[email]> writes


author: Tapper

subject: Re: metzer farms?

text:
I've bought supplies from Metzer, but no birds.  I tried buying from them a
month ago, but they really annoyed with their lack of information, odd
shipping and forcing me to pick odd bird combinations, so I found different
sources.  And they didn't have information about the particular strains they
sold.  I was looking for "old-fashioned" Rhode Island Reds (darker & larger
than common type) and "Production", not "Standard" Rouen ducks (the standard
is for showing, the production is for regular barnyard or table use).   They
had no idea what kind of either breed they sold.  I finally got my ducks
from McMurray Hatchery (http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/) and my chickens
from Eagles Nest (rec. by ALBC).  McMurray is the best!  They have a great
variety of chicks and waterfowl, and they're VERY helpful, informative,
perfect shipping.  I got 17 total, 4 different breeds.  My ducks are almost
3 weeks old and are in top shape.  They included an extra Cayuga for free.
It was a runty little guy but has sprung back and is almost as big as the
others.

I got a great list of hatcheries for odd breeds from the Amer. Livestock
Breeds Conservancy (at http://www.albc-usa.org/contact.shtml).  I am a
member, but I lost my hatchery listing book, so I emailed them and they sent
me fact sheets and hatcheries for each breed I was looking for.  that's
where I heard about Eagles Nest (in Ohio at (419) 562-1993) .

"Jill" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: metzer farms?

text:
"Tapper" <[email]> wrote in message
news:dc0W8.9058$[email]...
a
different
they
larger
standard
They

interesting
I was not aware they sold chickens
I thought they were reknowned for having production waterfowl
but that some folk had had birds from them that were well enough marked and
form to have won in shows
Thier web site is certianly extremely informative and their newsletter in
very interesting

 I finally got my ducks
almost

I did not think that McMurray bred their own birds but used a large number
of farmers around - so there is less likelihood of well selected birds
coming over
I will have to ask tehm
and if they have exported to the UK before
thanks - will look into it
sent

hhmmm- will have to see if they know folk who will export and have selected
production lines
thanks


subject: Re: metzer farms?

text:
I guess we're looking for different things.   I am more interested in
getting hardy birds that can survive an upstate New York winter and keep
their wits about them out in the yard.  Since I don't show them, I don't
know that much about selecting breeders that have prize-winning birds.  But
the ALBC probably will!  Good luck with your search.


subject: Re: metzer farms?

text:
"Tapper" <[email]> wrote in message
news:d5ZW8.15400$[email]...

that sounds good
but what I am looking for on top of that are birds that are productive

for this to be
they need to be selected for egg numbers and or table qualities
I am entirely disinterested in showing or selection for feather and form
beyond what the original breeders of a breed had in mind

Since I don't show them, I don't
selection is not just for shows
there are I hope still breeders who selelct for production
the problem I have gleaned so far from the various other groups on line
is that many of the US hatcheries are like the UK breeders
in that they may breed pure and have healthy birds
but if they are not selecting for productivity
this slips badly within a few generations
Therefore my wish to hear of reports of the egg numbers and table qualities
of birds from the hatcheries over there
before I spend a lot of money on birds that are no better in productivity
from what we have here

and in ducks that is very very poor

 But

will ask them if htey know any productive lines
thank you


author: Lava

subject: ich mache mittlerweile fast alles...

text:
'ich mache mittlerweie fast alles ueber Online-Banking.'
This is an answer for 'what do you think about online-banking?'
Could anybody tell me what this german sentence means? is it that 'i do
almost everything about online-banking' or 'i can do almost everything
during online-banking,' or else...?
Thanks a lot


author: Susana Wenderoth

subject: RE: ich mache mittlerweile fast alles...

text: it means that " i do almost everything with online-banking", I think...


author: Oliver Walter

subject: Re: ich mache mittlerweile fast alles...

text:
I think they mean they are already doing almost everything (i.e. almost all
their banking) by means of on-line banking.


author: Andrew Morgan

text:
Lava schrieb:

Else. The "Banking" bit here is somewhat redundant (as often occurs in
German/English). The person involved is talking about his or her
banking/finance habits and explaining that he now does almost everything
online.

andy M

P.S. No idea what the situation is like elsewhere, but in Germany
online-banking is spreading fast - the only time Ive been to my bank in
the last two years was to pick up an update for my software ;-)


author: Bettina Price

text:
Lava <[email]> wrote in message
news:9bkaij$6qf$[email]...
These days, I do almost everything via online banking. (The implication
seems to be that online banking is good/better than normal banking).

HTH,

Bettina


author: Nick Worley

text:
I'd say it means: I use online banking for practically everything now (i.e.
paying bills, paying people, checking the balance, transferring money
between accounts) (although sometimes you have to go to your branch, it's
unavoidable)
HTH
Nick

Andrew Morgan <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


text:
Andrew Morgan <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Well, you coulda downloaded that, surely.

Bettina


text:
Bettina Price schrieb:

Well, yes and no. This was a major update that wasnt provided free to
"normal" users but was provided free to current users via the specific
bank (Stadtsparkasse).

Sio Yes, I could have downloaded it but then it wouldnt have been free
:-)

andy M


author: Jacqueline R Cater

subject: Ref needed for Score V Wald v 2LL for PHREG

text:
Hi all:

I am looking for a nice discussion of the relative merits of using
-2LL versus Wald or Score tests when you have a small sample
size , or a zero cell, for a proportional hazards regression model.
 In particular, if you have a situation where:

                               No event     Event
Not
Factor A                    50               0

Factor A                   100             40

there is clearly an effect, what is the best approach to use?
Also, recommendations on a good survival analysis text
would be appreciated (before I ante up a week's salary
for a book).

Thanks very much in advance,

Jacqui Cater
[email]


author: Glen Barnett

subject: Re: Ref needed for Score V Wald v 2LL for PHREG

text:
Jacqueline R Cater wrote:

Saying "There's clearly an effect, no need to test." may be all
you need.

Glen


author: Rich Ulrich

text:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:53:16 +1100, Glen Barnett
<[email]> wrote:

GB >

The ordinary, robust Pearson test on the 2x2 contingency  table
gives X^2 of 18.1.   That's easy to say and to justify.
If there were *no*  events to compare at multiple periods,
it is an ideal test because you don't lose any power at all.

Discussion:  -2LL  depends on the Likelihood function having
values (no division by zero, for instance).

A Wald test has a stiffer requirement, since it asks for
a nice shape (estimating variance from 2nd derivative), as well.
Your Wald test can mis-estimate even though ( -2LL)  is well defined.
Your Wald test has to bomb if it is not.   -- Generally speaking.


author: Bill Kemp

subject: Re: Welcome

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (James Huang) writes:

James,

On behalf of the Society of Petroleum Engineers, Gulf Coast Section, Houston,
we look forward to carrying this newsgroup to over 8,000 petroleum
professionals.

Regards,

Bill Kemp


author: James Huang

subject: Re: Welcome

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] (Bill Kemp) wrote:

We are very glad that the SPE is online.  Welcome and thanks for the
support.

Is the SPE upholding the ftp-site for articles (mentioned in JPT) ?  I
find many of the articles very interesting and would like to get my
hands on some of them.

  James Huang ** Scandpower A/S ** PO Box 3 ** N-2007 Kjeller ** Norway
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  (W) [email]  Tel: Int +476 381 4920  Fax: Int +476 381 8822
  (H) [email]       Int +472 216 2435       Int +472 216 2435


subject: Re: Welcome

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (James Huang) writes:

James,

We hope to have some of those projects going sometime next year.  Locally, we
are working on an home page and some other interesting projects that we will
keep you informed on.

Regards,

Bill


subject: Re: Welcome

text:
In article <[email]>, [email]
(Bill Kemp) wrote:

Thanks.  Looking forward to that.  It is quite difficult to keep up with
things when one is at the end of the 'hand-me-down' list. <g>

        James


author: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

subject:
Re: Did you know that you can have your immortal soul saved here?
	Just like ABChung did.

text:
convicted neighbor David Silverman wrote:

Ark...

... all who trusted GOD were saved by HIM.

Cross...

.... all who trust GOD will be saved by HIM.

Most assuredly, without doubt, in the Holy Spirit, I know GOD to be
kind, just, and right.

Jesus is GOD.

May we, who are HIS brethren, continue to pray for you:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDavid

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><


author: Mirage

text:
You cannot save that which does not exist. And what the spaz does this
have to do with cardiology? I feel sorry for the people who read that
board.


text:
brother Rod wrote:

On the other hand, there is a one-word proof of the existence of the
immortal soul:

love :-)

(it resides in the heart of the soul)

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><


author: Cary Kittrell

subject: Re: Did you know that you can publish your own book here? Just like    ABChung did.

text:
In article <[email]> Lisa C <[email]> writes:

It's not for nothing that they're called "vanity presses".

-- cary


subject:
Did you know that you can have your immortal soul saved here? Just
	like ABChung did.

text:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

:-)

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForCary


author: Sanity's Little Helper

subject: Re: Did you know that you can have your immortal soul saved here?  Just like ABChung did.

text:
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email] to
alt.atheism:

On the other hand, there is a one-word proof that your god is not love,
and does not even know the meaning of it:

Flood.


text:
Rod <[email]> crawled out of Earthquack's sock drawere and wrote
in news:syh7j.69741$[email] to alt.atheism:

Prove it does exist. It's your belief, so it's your burden.


author: Rod

subject:
Re: Did you know that you can have your immortal soul saved here?
  Just like ABChung did.

text:
Sanity's Little Helper wrote:

   Not at all ! I am not the one making the statement
   claiming that God does not exist, he is. Let him prove so, as
   I need no proof to believe, and since you have heard the message
   several times and rejected it your time is spinning down to nothing,
   and you will die should you not repent of your disbelief. Proving
   anything to you is no longer a problem for any Christian.


text:
Rod <[email]> wrote in
news:Gzk7j.77106$[email] to alt.atheism:

Which says everything that needs to be said aboout belief.

Telling the truth has never been a Christian's burden,any more than
knowing it has.


author: Patrick Flannery

subject: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Japan has tested their take on a SSTO test vehicle- you can get a Quicktime
movie of it here:
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=3128
Anyone have more data on this machine? It's too new for "Encyclopedia
Astronautica". Wait till you see how fast it approaches for landing-these
guys don't waste fuel!
Pat


author: Damon Hill

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Patrick Flannery" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Looks about as convincing as a man in a rubber suit, too.

Is this someone's idea of a joke?

--Damon


author: Gary Neff

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Wow. That looks so really real that I can't believe how really real it looks.
(Sarcasm sequencer off.)

Gary

Patrick Flannery wrote:


author: Interim Books

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:45:57 -0500, "Patrick Flannery"
<[email]> wrote:

Even more interesting is to watch the venting from the nose, (why so
high up?) and the effects of heat on the concrete of the launch pad.

D.

-------
Visit our search engine! http://www.interimbooks.com/pagescout/
-------

Interim Books | 322 Pacific Ave | Bremerton, WA | 98337
[email] | (360) 377-4343 | http://www.interimbooks.com/


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Patrick Flannery" <[email]> wrote in message: Wait till you see
how fast it approaches for landing-these
Also listen for the waycool sound it makes just at liftoff and landing; kind
of a SWHOOO noise.
The Japanese realize that it must not only LOOK like a sci-fi rocket,
LIFTOFF and LAND like a sci-fi rocket, but SOUND like a sci-fi rocket.
In future tests, I expect it to deploy mechanical arms and legs; pick up a
gigantic battle axe, and Defend our Planet from the Mysterians!
Pat (From Monster Island)


author: Charles Marcus Durrett

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
It sure looks real to me.  It has a lot of stuff in it that an
animator would waste his/her time on. I don't think its animation any
more than Apollo 11 was. :-) .

Chuck

Damon Hill <[email]> wrote in message news:<Xns90DA2DCC3806Adamonhalcyoncom@209.155.56.98>...


author: Paul Blay

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Gary Neff" <[email]> wrote in message news:[email]...

It's the same movie as on ISAS's site

http://www.isas.ac.jp/dtc/saisiyo/0625rvt6-42.mov

I'm sorry real rockets aren't as impressive as those in Star Wars.


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Interim Books" <[email]> wrote in message:

So that the cryogenic fumes don't settle around it and cause an explosion on
ignition.
Pat


author: Richard Bell

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
In article <[email]>,
Patrick Flannery <[email]> wrote:

Weren't the Mysterions (sp?) from the BRITISH children's sci-fi series
Captain Scarlet by Gerry and Silvia Anderson?

For those that don't remember, the puppetry was stunning but the model
work was still not perfect (that had to wait for SPACE:1999).


author: James Summers

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:01:16 -0500, "Patrick Flannery"
<[email]> wrote:

Sounds like an oxy-acetyline cutting torch to me.

-----------------------
James Summers
IBM-ret, "old space guy".
Apollo 201, 202, 203, 204, 1, & 9 Support.  Apollo 13 "back room".


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Paul Blay" <[email]> wrote in message: > It's the same
movie as on ISAS's site
When one of their landing gear doesn't come down, and they slowly topple and
explode, thats pretty good...
Pat


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Paul,

I didn't mean to put the animation itself down. It's pretty cool, really. It's
the fact that it's being passed off as an actual event that is bothersome.

Gary

Paul Blay wrote:


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:20:29 -0500, "Patrick Flannery"
<[email]> wrote:

Ah, of course.

That's one of the details that made me think it's not an animation...
Watch the behavior of the vent plume after ignition...

D.

-------
Visit our search engine! http://www.interimbooks.com/pagescout/
-------

Interim Books | 322 Pacific Ave | Bremerton, WA | 98337
[email] | (360) 377-4343 | http://www.interimbooks.com/


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Richard Bell" <[email]> wrote in message:
news:9if43b$645$[email]...

Before that series, there was a wild Japanese movie called "The Mysterians"
that had  a 300 foot tall Stegosaurus shaped robot that shot heat rays out
of it's eyes, atomic powered rocket dirigibles, giant parabolic heat
cannons, Aliens that wanted to steal Japanese women to breed with, and some
of the strangestly translated dubbing you have ever heard:
"The Mysterians come from a group of small stars between the orbits of Mars
and Jupiter." (Asteroids)
"The robot was made out of a Chemical Substance!" (If it were made out of
anything else, I would really be worried)
Referring to a police officers report on the aforesaid giant robot:
"You mean, bullets had no effect on it?!" ( Nope!- the three hundred foot
tall robot could not be stopped with a police revolver- due, no doubt, to
it's superior Chemical Substance construction...)
But all ended well, and the filthy aliens were not able to turn the virtuous
Japanese women to there perverted purposes,being stopped by a Fedora wearing
hero!
And of course don't forget the band "Question Mark, and the Mysterians"
Pat (banging Harmony Angel)


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"James Summers" <[email]> wrote in message:
You know- you're right- thats exactly what it sounds like- an oxy-acetylene
torch being shut down.
Pat


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
[email] (James Summers) wrote in
news:[email]:

Just how big is this thing?  I can't find any data on it, and the few
images suggest it could be a very small scale model.

--Damon


author: Ben Hallert

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Gary Neff wrote:

Question, are you claiming that this is an animation and not video of something
that really happened?  If that were the case, it seems unusual that the
spaceref article and the ISAS home page wouldn't comment on that.

http://www.isas.ac.jp/e/index.html


author: Chuck Stewart

subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Gary Neff <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Uh... that's not an animation...

Yes, it is.

Uh... it _is_ an actual event.

That little craft is used to test vertical takeoff and
landing for possible SSTO craft.

It's not the best quality .mov in the world but that is
an actual device :)

I remeber when they first tested it, minus the aeroshell.

It goes up, it comes down... that's all it does.

But, since someone mentioned Delta Clipper...
The Japanese craft has yet to tip over and ruin itself :)


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Interim Books <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Good point.  Maybe it is a scale model.  The page claims it is using
hydrogen and oxygen; wonder what size engine they're using?  The
Japanese do have a cyrogenic upper stage engine used on the H-II.

--Damon (waves at you from Auburn, WA)


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
"Damon Hill" <[email]> wrote in message: >
That's what I'm trying to figure out- no data- for all I know it's six feet
high-although the film makes it look... what? Fifteen to twenty five feet in
height?
Pat ( Flushing Mothra out of my cloth's closet...)


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
My apologies to all. I jumped the gun on that one. The combination of lo-res
movie and super high descent rate looked, well, unreal.

Gary

Chuck Stewart wrote:


subject: Re: OhmyGawd- It's DELTA JUNK!

text:
Dang.  I saw a picture of this thing with some people standing around
it in the last week or so but can't find it now.  Maybe 3 M in height?

Chuck

"Patrick Flannery" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: Jim Little

subject: Any ideas for tongue-click problem while sleeping?

text:
Hello,

My brother does not have TMJ. But for some reason he "snaps" or "clicks" the
mid-portion of his tongue against the roof of his mouth (hard palate) at
times during sleep. He has been doing this for many years. This doesn't
bother him, but it bothers his new wife because it can be loud enough to
awaken her. He knows what he is doing and can demonstrate it when he is
awake. He is essentially creating sucking action not unlike one would use if
sucking their thumb (he used to be a thumb-sucker, by the way). I would like
to figure out a solution for him.

It seems to me that if I could construct an upper retainer-like/mouth-tray
appliance that extended behind his front teeth along his palate for maybe a
full inch--and if this extended portion had a hole or series of holes in
it--then his tongue would hit that instead of his palate. Because this
appliance would have a hole or holes in it, his tongue should no longer be
able to create the temporary suction that causes the "click" sound.

Does anyone else have this "clicking" problem? Or does anyone else know of a
solution? Finally, does anyone know if I can order an upper mouth guard that
can be soaked in hot water and molded (unlike bleaching trays, this "guard"
would have to extend about a full inch behind the upper teeth)?

Any help would be most appreciated.


author: Bill Combs

subject: Re: Any ideas for tongue-click problem while sleeping?

text:
"Jim Little" <[email]> wrote in message news:<9adkb.66287$[email]>...

It sounds like you have a good idea of the "solution" for this
problem. A hard retainer-like appliance with large airways should
eliminate the ability to create a vacuum. You might have to experiment
with the placement of holes or grooves to achieve the desired effect.

That being said, I still have to wonder if the "problem" is receiving
more attention than it's worth. Is it really creating a problem in his
marriage? Is he really willing to wear one of these devices for the
rest of his life?

Best wishes,
dentaldoc


author: Roy Brown

text:
Hi Jim,

Have you considered modifying something along the lines of a tongue
thrusting appliance? A small flipper with a couple of ball clasps and some
wire loops extending the inch or so that would prevent the tongue from
forming a seal along the palate. His dentist should be able to get a lab to
make something, it could even be made with a thermoplastic material.

Are you sure it is his tongue? OSA or Obstructive Sleep Apnea might produce
similar sounds. Perhaps a sleep test might be in order to rule out this
potentially serious condition.


text:
Well, I can't speak for him. It's not affecting his marriage per se, he just
wants to do something about it because he feels bad that it awakens his
wife. I've heard the clicking he does while sleeping--it is indeed annoying.

Since writing the message, I had another thought: Do any of those "snore"
remedies effectively lubricate the soft/hard palate so that a "suction"
could not be possible (or would not be likely)?

Thanks,
Jim


text:
Thank you for this suggestion.

We are (and he is) CERTAIN it is his tongue. He can make the sound on
purpose when awake, and he can continue to breathe effortlessly through his
nose while doing it: his soft palate is not involved, and this is not apnea.

You had it right about his tongue forming a "seal" along his (hard) palate.

Here's how to make this sound yourself: Close your mouth and jaw closed
normally; keep the tip of your tongue against your lower teeth; elevate the
portion of your tongue that's about 1/2-1" back from the tip toward the roof
of your mouth--and when it touches, create a "suction" (much the way you do
when you click your tongue with the tip of your tongue--but the tip is not
involved here). After the "suction" is created, the tongue will soon give
way to the suction, and when it does it sort of "clicks". This is what is
going on. If you practice this, you can get a true "click" that's rather
loud rather than a sort of non-descript grunt sound. To get the "click"
sound, be sure to form the seal against your palate that's towards the front
teeth rather than towards the throat.

I am surprised that this may be so rare. His dentist, quite frankly, laughed
about it and brushed it off (maybe he needs a new dentist?), but I am
convinced that there is a simple, elegant solution that he should be able to
use and that is not very complicated or expensive.

I recall I had a retainer as a kid, and the dentist drilled a small hole in
the part that rested against my palate. He did this because he was trying to
get me in the habit of swallowing by placing the tip of my tongue against my
palate first--instead of against the inside of my upper teeth. I thought of
that with my brother's problem. The nice this about a retainer, vs. a bite
plate, is that it is relatively unobtrusive--and he's rather self-conscious
about this problem This way, he can go to bed with his wife without looking
like he's prepared for tackle football.

Regards,
-- Jim

"Roy Brown" <[email]> wrote in message
news:ZVdkb.11984$[email]...
to
produce
use
retainer-like/mouth-tray
maybe
be
of


author: Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.

text:
This sounds like the basis for a good spy movie .... the clicks are a
secret code and the reason he does them is he was hypnotized by
Al-Kaida ........... to get secrets .......


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: High Temperature Paints

text:
In <[email]>, John Newby <[email]> writes:

We use Pyromark 2500, good to 2500F, but it requires a cure for
best performance.  there is also a Pyromark 800 and 1200 which
do not require curing.

These are not sold as spray paints - though we use an airbrush
to apply it in our laboratory setting - you'd have to use your own
spray equipment.

They come in colors - I don't know which, we only use flat black.

Tempil
Big Three Industries
2901 Hamilton Blvd
South Plainfield, NJ 07080
908.757.8300

If you need off the shelf spray paint just go to you nearest
auto store and stock up on engine paint.

high temp silver may be hard to come by, good luck

Rory McLeod         Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
[email]               University of Virginia
http://kelvin.seas.virginia.edu/~rnm8s


subject: Is AIDS a Gay Disease?

text:
In another newsthread, a MD wrote the following quote:

Based on my understanding, I posted the following reply:

To which, another reader posted the following:

Is AIDS, in fact, a disease still primarily a "gay" and "IV drug abuser"
disease?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Kassandra (aka Serena)


author: Jennifer Lea Whitlow

subject: Re: Is AIDS a Gay Disease?

text:
In article <[email]> [email] writes:

Words, labels...dangerous things they are.  Saying AIDS/HIV is a gay or IVDU
disease allows people to hide behind labels.  A man considers himeself
straight.  He has an unprotected sexual encounter with another man. He still
considers himself straight.  He was just experimenting.  Well, he is
also at risk for HIV.  Oh and by the way...he's married...so his
wife is too.
It was argued above that homosexuals and IV drug users engage in behaviors
that put them at grreater risk.  What special behaviors are those?
Anal sex, rimming, fisting, oral sex....all are practiced by heterosexuals
as well.  Sharing needles....not every IVDU shares their needles, if they do,
well fine...but what about thier sexual partners...saren't they at risk too?
the "primarily a gay and IVDU disease" definition doesn't allow for these
risks...and therefor allows people who are at risk to believe they aren't.
That puts everyone at risk.
You see, it's not who you are, but what you do.    HIV/AIDS doesn't
know the meaning of words like straight, gay, black, white, male, female.

Another point.  Statistics lie.  Big time.  They can be manipulated
and interpreted to mean anything.  I don't pay attention to the numbers.
I protect myself no matter what.

So I guess my point is...HIV/AIDS effects everyone.  It's not who you are,
but what you do.  Better safe than sorry.  (and all that.)

*takes a breath*  well...I guess I'm done now.
Hope I've helped.

-Jen


author: Carlton Hogan

subject: Re: Is AIDS a Gay Disease?

text:
In article <[email]> [email] (Jennifer Lea Whitlow) writes:
----snip-----

Actually, "Statistics" are just aggregates of data, that are incapable
of speaking, let alone lying. In the same sense that "HIV/AIDS doesn't
know the meaning of words like...", a statistic is just a number,
incapable of lying, telling the truth, or even comprehending the
variable it is describing.

*People* lie. Or more often, their biases cause them to create flawed
experiments, with built in biases and self fulfilling prophecy.
Another, less innocent variety of people intentionally distort
statistics, "cherry-picking" the data that proves their hypothesis.
Often, if you have some knowledge of sound methodology, such elision
will be obvious. Other times, if someone is dishonest enough, they may
lie about the primary data from which the statistic is derived. This
is much harder to detect. But it also makes it much harder to verify,
and often this kind of dishonesty rises to the top (as in the
recent Nakumura/Gallo KS paper, or Robert Redfields gp160 trials)

Carlton

 __________________________________________________________________________
 |                                                                        |
 |   Carlton Hogan  ([email])                         |
 |   Community Programs for Clinical Research on AIDS Statistical Center  |
 |   Coordinating Center for Biometric Research                           |
 |   Division of Biostatistics, School of Public Health                   |
 |   University of Minnesota                                              |
 |   2221 University Ave SE, Suite 200          Voice: (612) 626 8899     |
 |   Minneapolis  MN 55414                      FAX: (612) 626 8892       |
 |________________________________________________________________________|
Neither NIAID or the U of Mn said this, That's for sure!!


author: Stacy M. Hall

subject: Need Lyme Literate Doctore and Help

text:
I am in need of a lyme literate doctor and some advise.  I was bitten
by a tick 7 months ago and has left me with a bad local reaction even
still to this day. Now I am beginning to see a dark circle 5-6 inches
diameter surrounding the tick bite. It is also very itchy. I need
advise on what this is and what kind of doctor to see.
Also, I and my doctor are having problems with Lyme and Ehrlichia test
results. Originally, I was tested positive from an Elisa, Western Blot
was equivical, Ehrlichia Igg titer was very high.  I have taken
Doxycycline for 20 days, then took an Ehrlichia PCR test which was
negative..
As far as my symptoms go... before taking the Antibiotics, I had a
rather widespread body rash that was very itchy, around 3 individual
episodes of slight tingling (numbness) in my lower arms, my neck and
shoulders have always been tight and sore due to TMJ but maybe it bit
more severe lately (hard to tell), I did have a Lymphatic node swollen
near my tick bite.
 Basically, the antibiotics got rid of my body rash but now, 1 month
after treatment, I am getting rashes again. Does this mean Ehrlichia
is coming back? or some other organism like the one that causes Lyme?
I am lost for what to do and the Lyme Foundation says there is no
referral doctor in my area.. My doctor says that I don't have any
disease!!
Thank You Ahead of Time for any help, Stacy Hall


author: Pacbird

subject: Re: Need Lyme Literate Doctore and Help

text:
Stacy,
Please post where you are from. Someone may know a doctor near you. In the
meantime see if your doctor will prescribe more antibiotics.Also check to
see if there are any support groups in your area that may be able to help
locate a doctor.
You can check LymeNet http://www.lymenet.org/
They have a list of support groups and a board with a lot of good people who
may be able to help.
Good Luck


author: KJRU

subject: Re: Need Lyme Literate Doctore and Help

text:
Stacy,
You definitely need to pursue this and find a lyme doctor. you may or may not
still be infected, but the rings you describe around the rash sound very much
like the typical lyme bullseye rash and that is the only sure diagnostic tool.
If you have that, you have, or had, lyme. Whether you had enough antibiotics to
eradicate the bacteria is the big question, and you need to be proactive and
look for help. I saw someone already asked where you are from. step one would
be to contact the local support group if there is one and get a doctor referral
good luck, let us know how it goes.

kathy

whatever else you leave undone
once ride a wild horse into the sun


author: MiMi

subject: Re: Need Lyme Literate Doctore and Help

text:
Stacy,

Most Lyme patients are told there is nothing wrong with them. The tests are
semiworthless. I'm guessing you'll have to travel, as many of us do, to see
our Lyme Literate MDs.

Rita


author: ThrashATL

subject: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
OK, shootout time...

Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel...?

I used a Sonicare for the past year before buying an Oral B 3D Excel.   Both are
excellent at cleaning but one has to be better right?   Well, using an Oral B
since December has made a difference in my gums.   Since using the Oral B, I
have had ZERO gum bleedings, while with the Sonicare they were not totally
scarce.   On the other hand, I have increased gum sensitivity when I use the
Oral B and much less sensitivity with the Sonicare.  I attribute this to
possibly the brush head design.   The Sonicare has MUCH softer bristles and a
uniform design.  The Oral B has the circular head with 3 types of bristles of
different rigidity.   The Sonicare seems to be the stronger of the two when it
comes to comparing the "motor" (it's also much larger and heavier!).   The sonic
action of the Sonicare seems to shake loose while the Oral B wants to scrape
loose things from the teeth.   After a Plax rinse and a squirt of Crest
Rejuvenating Effects toothpaste, the Oral B gets the tooth facing NICE and
SQUEAKY clean.    For now, the Oral B seems to be doing the better job.... but
that's until the new Sonicare comes out next month (I think).   Anyone disagree
or agree with the Oral B winning the shootout?


author: Spacie

subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/ab002281.htm This link will take
you to an abstract of a recent study that compares manual and electric
toothbrushing.  Hope this answers your questions.

Penny RDH in Ontario.


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
"Spacie" <[email]> wrote in message
news:b309he$e9f$[email]...

Manual brushing IF done correctly AND done the minimum of 2 minutes
like the powered brushes MAY give the same results.  HOWEVER, most
people are lazy when it comes to brushing and with a manual, this enables
laziness.   I know, I've been there.   Powered brushes take the guessing
away for the correct movement and with a timer of 2 minutes minimum, I
leave it in my mouth probably 2-3 times as long as my old manual brush.
Before bed, I do two sessions (4 minutes) with the Oral B 3D Excel.

I do keep a manual around to do quick touch-up brushings but my teeth
were NEVER as clean until I got the powered Sonicare and now my
Oral B.


author: J Balls

subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
I have an Oral B that I really like, but Ive been wondering if the sonic
vibrating action has any bad effect on dental work like caps, onlays,
crowns, and/or bridges.  The last thing we want to do is to loosen cement on
dental appliances.  Believe it or not there was a thread not too long ago
about sonic brushes harming brain cells!  Im not going down That road, but I
dont think its quite so unreasonable to ask about the sonic vibs with regard
to dental work.

Paul E

"ThrashATL" <[email]> wrote in message
news:b30b6g$39o$[email]...
take


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
"J Balls" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9WO4a.60822$[email]...

My dentist gave me the green light to use the Oral B and/or my Sonicare with
3 crowns.   Actually, I think you'd be better off using one of these powered
brushes with crowns than a manual brush which relies on your own hand/arm
movements and varying levels of force than something with a known quantity
that is doing all the work for you.


author: Toni

subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
It is not strong enough to harm dental work.  I personally use the Sonicare
and I have said many times that I love it.  I have not tried the Oral-B.  I
recently read a newspaper article that said brushes like the Oral-B are the
best type.  It still isn't going to convince me to give up the Sonicare.

Toni, RDH

"J Balls" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9WO4a.60822$[email]...
on
I
regard
enables


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
"Toni" <[email]> wrote in message
news:KAR4a.10437$[email]...

There is a new Sonicare coming out soon to dental offices the first half
of this year and then retail the 2nd half.  The brushes appear to be more
Oral B "like" as well as a slightly different oscillation pattern.   I think
it's
called the Sonicare "Elite" and there are two other models coming,
the 4300 & 4700 Advance.   Amazon.com has them if you want to
take a look.


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
Oral  B vibrates rapidly, to create kind of a buzzing, and it was this
vibration I was wondering, if it could 'vibrate' loose the cement holding
caps, crowns, onlays, and bridges and stuff.  I guess not..  One of the
reasons I asked is that I have a temporary filling which uses this white
plaster like substance, which is kind of crumbley and brittle. I managed to
'vibrate' off a small piece of it the other day.  Does Sonicare also vibrate
this way?

Paul E

"Toni" <[email]> wrote in message
news:e3T4a.2$[email]...
more


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
A temporary filling is a different story.  It is temporary; it isn't
supposed to be strong enough to hold up for long.  Sonicare is "sonic",
therefore vibrates more than the Oral-B.

Toni, RDH

"J Balls" <[email]> wrote in message
news:acU4a.61123$[email]...
to
vibrate
half


author: it is short for Andrea

subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
Oral B still makes the older versions that don't have the "3-D" motion.  That's
what I have at home as it works great and I see no reason to upgrade.

They will often be on sale (US) for about $17.99.

LadyAndy

Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth - my
chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET)

Joint Replacement Board at
http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
The Oral B 3D Excel is the top of the line Oral B electric toothbrush it has
a very small circular head that oscillates back and forth faster than the
older model 3D, it also has a slight "woodpecker" action that is supposed to
help vibrate away plaque - it works really well and can often be purchased
on sale here in Ontario for around $80 (Canadian dollars).  I really like
this toothbrush it fits well into all the awkward areas at the back of the
mouth and down the side of the tongue - I have used it for about the last
year.

The Sonicare Elite (the new one - that I am fortunate to have been using for
the last 2 weeks) is also a very nice brush the head is more like a
traditional toothbrush in that it is sort of oval - it is smaller than the
old Sonicare and I find it fits better in the tight areas at the back of my
mouth.  The head moves very quickly in a back and forth "flutter" type of
motion.  Theoretically it is supposed to clean better between the teeth
because of this "sonic" action - I'm a bit sceptical and tend to believe
that the bristles have to touch the plaque before it can be removed.  My
major beef with Sonicare is the price I understand that this new brush will
be about $139 (US dollars).  I don't know that it is that much better than
the Oral B that is almost 50% cheaper (when you factor in the difference
between Cdn and US dollars)!

Both these brushes are excellent - the most recent research from the
Cochrane Institute says that an oscillating toothbrush is the best - that
would be the Oral B.  My personal observation is that which ever brush you
are most comfortable with and that you will keep in your mouth for the
longest time brushing effectively against all  the surfaces of your teeth is
the best brush for you - there probably isn't one that is a clear front
runner.  The same goes for toothpaste - the best one is the one that you
like the taste of most and that you will use for longest!

Penny RDH in Ontario.


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
Penny,
Where did you get your Sonicare?  The Sonicare rep called the office for me
the other day, but I was with a patient, and I never got around to calling
him back.  I know previously they would offer us a Sonicare for $39, is it
the same for the Elite?  I ended up getting mine (old model) for free, as
there was some sort of "special offer" sent to my office a year or so ago.
I would like to try the Elite, as the brush head is so much smaller and
doesn't have that piece coming up the back of it.  I am not *too* concerned
about the cost of it at this point, I'm sure it will come down quite a bit
once the novelty wears off.  I'm sure a lot of people who want the newest
and best thing, and are willing to pay for it will go right out and buy it.
Others will wait for the price reduction.

Toni, RDH
"Spacie" <[email]> wrote in message
news:b31li7$2gj$[email]...
has
to
for
my
will
is


subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
Toni - some time ago I signed on to the Sonicare website that I was
interested in the upcoming new model and out of the blue I got a call asking
if I wanted to participate in a clinical trial - so I am!  Never done a
clinical trial before but thought it would be interesting for 2 of my
patients as well as myself to participate.  I was sent 3 toothbrushes plus a
binder of instructions and forms to be completed.

I think that the attendees at the RDH Under One Roof conference in Las Vegas
at the beginning of February also were able to acquire the new toothbrush -
you might want to check into any conferences or conventions in your area and
see if you can get one that way if your rep can't come up with one!

Penny


author: Joel M. Eichen

subject: Re: Sonicare vs. Oral B 3D Excel

text:
Toni <[email]> wrote in message news:m5Z4a.1878$[email]...

I am still waiting to trade in my black
and white TV, but I think the price of
the color TVs will go even a bit lower!


author: ElleninLosAngeles

subject: Pink Goop Tile Caulking Repair Kit

text:
Pink Goop And Ingenuity
By Earl Lane

In searching for ways to repair damaged shuttles in orbit, NASA
engineers have gone back to the future. They have selected a pink
goop, mixed in two parts like an epoxy, that has been in use since the
1960s.

The heat-resistant material has the consistency of caulk until it
cures, when it takes on the rubbery look and feel of a pencil eraser.
But looks are deceiving. When the material is exposed to the high
temperatures a shuttle experiences on re-entry to Earth's atmosphere,
its surface chars and slowly burns away, providing what engineers hope
will be a margin of safety to protect a stricken shuttle from
disaster.

Michael Fowler, the NASA official responsible for developing materials
to do repairs on the protective thermal tiles that cover shuttles,
said his team has benefited from previous efforts in 1979 and 1980,
when engineers selected the pink goop, a silicone-based material
called MA-25S, as a potential patch for damaged or missing tiles.
----
While NASA engineers are confident the patching material can be used
to repair nicks and gaps in any of the thousands of tiles in the
shuttle's skin, they still are scrambling to find a workable repair
strategy for the wing edge panels made of a composite material called
reinforced carbon-carbon.
----
Ellen


author: Reed Riddle

subject: Re: Pink Goop Tile Caulking Repair Kit

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (ElleninLosAngeles) wrote:

MA-25S was the ablator used on the X-15-A-2 when it flew it's maximum
speed flight (still the fastest flight of an aircraft, and of any winged
craft aside from the shuttle).  The ablator stood up very well, aside
from the ventral stabilizer which was severely damaged due to shock
impingement heating.  So, this is a well known substance, and as long as
the application is smooth (i.e. no shock waves) should enable the
orbiter to make it through a single re-entry.  Application to the X-15
was a huge issue though...it will be interesting to see how well it
works in vacuum.

Reed


author: Jorge R. Frank

subject: Re: Pink Goop Tile Caulking Repair Kit

text:
Reed Riddle <[email]> wrote in news:DAMNdrriddleSPAM-
[email]:

In fact, MA-25S was also the ablator used in the original 1979-80 shuttle
tile repair kit. It was abandoned because of a tendency to "foam up" in
vacuum. The current tile repair kit development team has apparently solved
that problem.


author: wuzzy

subject: spot reducing a reviwe of the evidence

text:
most of the abstracts you have to use pre-medline to get a copy of
them..

there is some reduction in waist circumference with sit-ups but not
because of less fat:

" The decrease of thickness of
     subcutaneous adipose tissue was not associated with a significant
decrease in fat cell size and was probably due to
     geometrical factors secondary to hypertrophy of the underlying
muscle."


author: Michael Roose

subject: Re: spot reducing a reviwe of the evidence

text:
On 21 Apr 2002 17:28:45 -0700, [email] (wuzzy) wrote:

|there is some reduction in waist circumference with sit-ups but not
|because of less fat:
|
|" The decrease of thickness of
|     subcutaneous adipose tissue was not associated with a significant
|decrease in fat cell size and was probably due to
|     geometrical factors secondary to hypertrophy of the underlying
|muscle."

If you do situps and have not before, there will be some hypertrophy
most noticeably in the rectus abdominis. Hypertrophy=larger.

Must be measuring the pelvic line = waist.


author: Micky Snir

text:
Wuzzy: maybe it was associated with non-subcutaneous fat decrease (central)
as you have just posted?

"wuzzy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
associated

and:

"wuzzy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:<[email]>...


author: Thomas

subject: Is Global Warming the Global Jonestown?

text:
I watched a BBC documentary on Jim Jones "socialist, sustainable
paradise" and the appalling loss of life which it resulted in back in
1979 and it was an incredible piece of television. Compelling and very
upsetting. I had no idea that Jones' voice on the speaker system had
been recorded as the mass killings took place. To hear women screaming
as their infants and children were taken from them as Jim Jones shouts
on the microphone "mother, please do not be like this, give your child
up to God."

I know a lot of people over the years have made fun of the Jonestown
thing and Kool-Aid jokes. But this documentary really brought home
what a horrible human tragedy it was. The guy who escaped after her
could not talk his wife out of killing herself and their son was just
heartbreaking to listen too. Coupled with this he also lost his sister
and nephew and niece as well.

What it also brought home was that the most pro-Jones fanatics tended
to be middle-class and above, college educated types who enforced this
lifestyle using dreams of utophia first, paranoia secondly, then
murder later when followers began to question the cult.

So much of the same psychological dynamic at Jonestown, you can
clearly see it again with the Al Gore/AGW folks. But this is even more
frightening as mass media allows this to happen on a global scale
these days and people in the West are even more stupid and sheep-like
than there were back in the 1970's.

As long as there are people who want some uthopian dream and there is
a leader to exploit them it will always happen. Matters not what their
education level is. In fact, I would say the more educated a person
is, the more they are likely to lack real social intelligence and
therefore more more prone to be taken in by cult leaders types.

You can manipulate just about anyone with a false promises which play
on their insecurities, and then later paranoia.

I would not be surprised if any of the eco-projects around the world
don't end up like Jonestown. Watching the Jonestown story at the
begining it was just like these "sustainable" communities with
socialist ideals we see springing up all over with civil servants and
other middle-class easily manipulated types being controlled as soon
as their dream starts to wobble.

The whole Global Warming crowd are all potential Jonestowns in the
making.

If you listen to how Al Gore slowly and patronisingly speaks on TV or
in public, and then Jim Jones at Jonestown on the speaker system. It
is spine-chilling.


author: Wexford

subject: Re: Is Global Warming the Global Jonestown?

text:
On Jan 31, 12:13 pm, Talk-n-Dog <@http://dogi-pedia.talk-n-dog.com@>
wrote:

Hell of trick to get a few thousand earth scientists to agree to the
lie.

"Liberals???" It's the Neo-cons who want to tap phones, censor your
books, TV and Movies, and sniff your sheets, not Liberals. It's the
Neo-cons who want to run up the debt and put us in a position of
servicing the Chinese and Japanese with interest payments for the next
century.

Yeah, but if your car belches effluents that make me cough and shorten
my life, aren't you intruding on my freedom? If your laziness and
filth causes the deaths of native animals, ruins habitats and destroys
the natural enviornment, aren't you intruding my freedom to live and
enjoy the earth?

You still haven't answered the question. What harm do we derive from
lowering our dependence on foreign oil, by finding alternative methods
of producing energy, by making our machinery mroe efficient? What
harm? If the Global Warming people are right, then what't he
consequence of not taking any action?


text:
On Jan 31, 12:22 pm, Bawana <[email]> wrote:
?????????????

Can't answer the question? By the way, CAFE standards and other
methods have made our enegy usage considerably more efficient. We
could do one hell of a lot better if the grafters in the Republican
party hadn't opposed every measure to increase mileage standards and
develop alternative energy soruces.

No brick wall, just assholes like you who are so stuck in their own
excrement they don't want to move or can't move.

Can't answer can you? Poor little you. Now leave the computer alone.
The kid in line behind you has homework to do.


text:
On Jan 31, 1:48 pm, [email] (Kenny McCormack)
wrote:

I don't know how I would sleep at nights. By the way, I don't know of
futures contract that goes out 17-18 years, but if there is one, I
wouldn't weep for the people who dumped money on it.


author: Mark K. Bilbo

text:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:13:01 -0500 in
vknoj.69508$[email], Talk-n-Dog
<@http://dogi-pedia.talk-n-dog.com@> wrote:

Polluting the planet that isn't yours personally *IS* interfering with
others.


text:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:48:40 +0000 in fnt568$b3j$[email],
[email] (Kenny McCormack) wrote:

Pity poor Exxon-Mobile, their profits didn't break $10 billion last time
round...


text:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:40:06 -0800 in
[email], Bill Ward
<[email]> wrote:

[email],

I have no interest in trying to "convince" idiots. The science is in
widely available peer reviewed journals. If people are too willfully
stupid to learn, there's nothing I can do about it.


author: Bawana

text:
On Feb 1, 12:17 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <[email]> wrote:

There is no need to "convince" idiots.
Your socialist cult demonkrap comrades are already idiots and never
need convincing...
they just need to know what is the latest party line...
any absurdity will be ingested then regurgitated.


text:
On Jan 31, 6:49 pm, Wexford <[email]> wrote:

Non sequitur, retard.
There are already emission standards.
If "a car belches effluents that make you cough and shorten your
life", tough shit, stay home.


text:
On Jan 31, 6:53 pm, Wexford <[email]> wrote:

Just did, you pathetic "never had an original idea in your whole
pathetic life" retard.

Oh, it's the republicans...you pathetic "never had an original idea in
your whole pathetic life" retard?


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:20:32 -0800 in
[email], Bawana
<[email]> wrote:

Oh go back to your sandbox.


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:55:07 -0800 in
[email], Bill Ward
<[email]> wrote:

Except they won't.


text:
On Jan 30, 8:48 am, Thomas <[email]> wrote:

????????????????

Eugenics was a movement of crackpots. Period. It was never "accepted"
by anyone save for a clutch of racists.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with Global Warming.

OK, asshole, but tell us this, in what way do we suffer if we find
ways to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, preserve the earth, and
make energy cheaper (because of better efficiencies) and more
available. Tell us one thing that will harm us if we act as if Global
Warming is a real threat.

Tghe only maniacs I see are the fuckwits who oppose the evidence for
Global Warming because (1) Al Gore is involved, (2) It's a "Liberal"
thing, and (3) I have a right to despoil the earth if I want to.


text:
On Jan 30, 5:32 pm, Bill Ward <[email]> wrote:

Eugenics was the product of crackpots and racists. The crackpots and
racists of today are all on the Neo-con side, firmly opposed to
anything that would reduce our dependence on foreign oil, make our
equipment more efficient, or preserve the enviornment.


text:
On Jan 31, 11:35 am, Wexford <[email]> wrote:

Now, there's something new from the "never had an original idea in
your whole pathetic life", retard.
That's been talked about since Jimmy Carter.
All you tards do is talk and tax.

Now, there's something new from the "never had an original idea in
your whole pathetic life", retard.
That's been talked about since Tesla, tard.
Science hit a brick wall or are they just waiting for government funds
to make their breakthroughs?

Taxing the air we breath will harm us non parasites, you left-turd
retard.
Non-productive left-turds will be unaffected.


text:
On Jan 31, 11:38 am, Wexford <[email]> wrote:

That would describe the current left-wing-co2agw- tards.


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:44:36 -0800 in
[email],
Tunderbar <[email]> wrote:

Isn't that nice? We'll still have the problems but we can make fun of Al
Gore. That'll help.

"Only"

I like that.

So, tell me, what do surveys of peer reviewed journals have to say on the
matter of whether there's consensus?

You *do* know right?


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:05:31 -0800 in
[email],
Tunderbar <[email]> wrote:

Lessee, how do I put this?

DUH.

(Sheesh)

Oh no! I *lost*! On the Interwebs! Oh, woe! I am bereft. I am
inconsolable!


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:32:23 -0800 in
[email], Bill Ward
<[email]> wrote:

There was no science behind eugenics. The "comparison" is mere smear
tactic.


text:
On Jan 30, 7:10 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <[email]> wrote:

Sure there was, tard.
They were on to something...
if the "knuckle-dragging-lib-turd-gene" is ever discovered, I'm all
for eugenics.

It's an accurate comparison of consensus science, tard.


text:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:25:36 -0800 in
[email], Thomas
<[email]> wrote:

Oh my, argument by absurd smears, that's persuasive.

(Yawn)


text:
On Jan 30, 12:34 pm, Peter Barber <[email]> wrote:

Not me. I live in Ireland I would love some mild winters and even warm
summers. Problem is we have been promised "balmy Irish winters" by the
AGW brigade for about 5 year now and we just got through our coldest,
most frosty and snowy winter in the years. Seems to be happening in
most other countries as well this winter.

So who is taking the piss? People like me who say the AGW stuff is
hysterical hype, or the great AGW minds who are tell me I do not need
a winter coat anymore when I have bought 3 since the first IPCC
report? Maybe if I was a climate change activist jet setting to Bali
to 'save the earth' I might need less winter wear, but that's not my
reality most winters.

There is no proof of either god or global warming. Both are faith
based notions. Forcing AGW dogma on society is just as bad as forcing
religion on them. Without the tangible proof, leave people to insulate
their own homes, install solar panels, change to the horrible CFC
bulbs and drive hybrids if THEY CHOSE TO DO THIS. This should be a
personal choice.

Anyways a western family saving money on energy is fallacy as they
will just spend the money they saved on something else which uses
energy. So the whole concept of saving energy at the micro level is
pointless and it is in reality just transferring energy usage from
your own home to something else. This is not science. This is not
energy conservation. This is not even common sense. It's a feel-good
"eco-confessional" which superficially cleanses the carbon sins.

It's the creepy control-freak nature of the Global Warmers which
pisses me off. I saw the same mentality among the catholic church big-
wigs in this country up until the 1980s. It's the same bullshit and
it's the same folk who are drawn to this notion of using AGW to
control society in the same way the catholic bishops did in the past.

Oh and like the catholic bishops, double-standards and hypocracy
appears to be a concept completely lost on the AGW crusaders. (see jet
setting to Bali in order to tell the rest of us not to fly)

To be honest, I am looking forward to a world were the weather will be
more of less what it has been for hundreds of years with normal
fluctuations and cycles. Because that's what we are getting regardless
of human or divine intervention.


text:
On Jan 29, 7:09 pm, Tunderbar <[email]> wrote:

Are you kidding. It'll implode in a maelstrom of psychotic, meglomanic
and hysterical sureality. Look at how mental that climate scientist
was sobbing in hysterics on the stage (sorry altar) during the Bali
summit.  Can you imagine how these crackpots will react when the game
is finally up for them.

There have alreasy been cases of New Age 'Back to Nature' 'Crustie'
groups here in Ireland and the UK, were uncooparative members of the
groups have been murdered. Also a lot of these New Age eco-cults are
used by on the run criminals who change their names to 'Thor' or
'Merlin' and take part in the bullying group dynamic of these sub-
cultures.

Because it is more highly organised and funded, I suspect the AGW
construct will disintergrate in the same way some postal workers in
the USA solve their personal human resources issues with AK 47s.
"going eco" will be come a common phase for some enviormentalist nuts
final act.


text:
On Jan 30, 1:08 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <[email]> wrote:

Eugenics was a real scientific movement completely accepted by the
entire scientific world in its day. It was the "concensus" at the
time, and lo and behold there is a movement within AGW called the
Optimum Population Trust composed of scientists who are demanding that
humans be prevented from breeding accroding to their potential carbon
footprint. The comparision with eugenics is 100% valid.

That's not any different that the old Eurgenics scientists demanding
that genentic defects be removed from the bloodines in order to serve
the common good.

Different brand of science, same fuckwit meglomanic scientists out of
control. AGW in time will prove itself to be the biggest own goal for
science since Eurgenics. .


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:41:25 -0800 in
[email], Thomas
<[email]> wrote:

Ignoring, of course, that ice melts are happening twice as fast as
expected...


text:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:48:34 -0800 in
[email], Thomas
<[email]> wrote:

I call bullshit.

See above.

Oh yes, let's use extremists as examples of entire groups, movements, and
what not. This means US Christians are *all* Fred Phelps, all atheists
are Stalin, and all Arabs are bin Laden.

"...same fuckwit meglomanic scientists out of control."

Well, for fuck's sake, don't use that computer crap nor get anywhere near
that Interweb thing, it's all by fuckwit megalomaniac out-of-control
scientists.

So are antibiotics!

It's only ignorant twits that can't separate out the science from the
hangers on.


author: Tunderbar

text:
On Jan 30, 8:14 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <[email]> wrote:

Ice melts happen every summer. I don't recall any credible evidence
that that isn't normal. Nor that any observations of accelerated
melting isn't part of the long term cycle. Just because a few nutbars
get shrill over a little ice melt, does not prove anything except that
they are shrill nutbars.

Mann is a fraud. So is Hansen. Al Gore is a court-proven liar. And the
IPCC has been shown to be a bunch of left wing activists with agendas.

The IPCC could only find 215 "scientists" to sign a letter at Bali.
How is that a consensus?


text:
On Jan 30, 8:19 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <[email]> wrote:

You realize that you are doing exactly what you claim he is.

"Oh yes, let's use extremists as examples of entire groups, movements,
and what not."

You are putting up extreme strawman arguments to counter his
reasonable points. You lose.


author: Peter Barber

text:
On Jan 30, 1:14 pm, Thomas <[email]> wrote:

Thanks for replying, and civilly too. I have to admit I wasn't
expecting that - my usenet experience makes me cynical!

I'm sure you've read many replies that are similar to mine - if so, my
apologies for the repetition. You'll just have to be more offensive
next time and I'll leave you alone.

Regarding warm winters: this is why "global warming" is a misleading
term, and "climate change" or even "climate destabilisation" would be
a better term. The climatologists do say that global mean annual
temperature is increasing and will continue to do so over the next
century on current trends. But more heat energy in the atmosphere as a
whole as a result of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) means increase
in extreme weather systems, in general leading to hotter drier summers
and colder wetter winters.

And as for Ireland, remember that for all the cold and rain, it is
several degrees warmer than it should be for its latitude, as a result
of the North Atlantic thermohaline circulation (or "Gulf Stream").
There is good evidence for previous shutdowns of the THC, and the
effects that had on climate in NW Europe. Although you will be
sceptical of this, it is reasonably probable that it will shut down
again in a few hundred years' time as a result of decreased salinity
in Arctic seawater from increased meltwater run-off. Your descendants
will be buying *very* thick coats if that happens!

And as for your recent experience of cold winters, the local
temperature data will have been incorporated into global temperature
datasets, and yet there is still a robust upward trend in global mean
annual temperature. That shouldn't be controversial - if the weather
was so regular and predictable that you could extrapolate local
experience to global means,
there would be no need for weather forecasts. And weather != climate,
as others would say.

In principle I agree that forcing a radical change on society is bad:
a change in societal behaviour cannot be sustained if the society
feels it is only doing it because it is being told to. But don't you
think governments are more to blame here? Yes, we are being told to
insulate our houses, don't fly, drive smaller and less, buy local, and
install solar panels - but we mainly hear this by politicians who
won't fund energy-efficiency schemes properly, fly and drive
everywhere, set up trade deals with China so we can import all our
clothes, toys and consumer electronics from nearly half-way round the
world while shafting local jobs, and throw our cash at invading a
country that happens to have shit-loads of oil, but not the WMDs they
insisted were there.

But that is not the fault of the scientific community. And I am
mystified that you can say there is no evidence. What fills the
climatology, geology, biology and ecology journals? How come climate
models only work properly when climate sensitivity to CO2 matches
measurements? How come such a large proportion of the experts agree?
And if they've all got it wrong, why should I believe you've got it
right?

There you have a point - the so-called "rebound" effect does lead to
people leaving lights on for longer because they're CFL not
incandescents or driving more now that they've bought a Prius.

But just because energy efficiency isn't sufficient, it doesn't follow
that it isn't necessary. Again, the problem is not with the science.
It is with a social and economic system which needs continuous growth
in production and consumption to service the debt which is constantly
created by banks. Works well to stimulate innovation in a system with
infinite resources, but even without climate change to slam the brakes
on production, there is only so much oil, copper or agricultural land
available on this planet.

What the rebound effect demonstrates, simply and effectively, is that
technological fixes do not work in the long term. They are useful (the
carbon intensity of most industrialised economies has indeed decreased
in recent decades), but not the solution (overall CO2 emissions are
still rising despite this). What is needed is a behavioural change,
and a fairly radical change in our economic system so that we do not
have to consume ever-greater amounts of natural resources to be
regarded as useful members of society. And that's a whole other story.

OK, I don't understand why COP-13 was held in Bali, given the perilous
situation of such islands if ACC is happening. It is bad PR. But like
everything else, there is a hell of a lot of inertia in human
behaviour. I suspect most politicians wouldn't have a clue how to set
up a conference call in Skype or iChat, for instance.

As for control-freakery, have a look at www.politicalcompass.org if
you haven't already been there. After seeing where you end up on the
compass (well, it's a grid really), have a look at the grids produced
for various national elections over the last decade (UK, Germany, Aus,
NZ, US). The various Green Parties are always libertarian left, nearly
always the most libertarian parties in their respective elections, and
maintain the most consistent political position over time. In other
words, dyed-in-the-wool social liberals.

I'm not denying that there are authoritarians who recognise the fear
value of climate chaos to get what they want from us, but
authoritarian Greens are few and far between. It just doesn't fit well
into the Green political philosophy of non-violence, radical
devolvement of political power to the local level.

And I sympathise with you about the Catholic Church's abuse of its
excessive power over Irish cultural life - but I fail to see the
parallel here with ACC. There is no priesthood that I'm aware of. The
orthodoxy itself becomes heterodox as science advances and
experimental methods improve. You might regard insulating one's house
or buying green energy as a ritual, but then why isn't fixing dripping
taps or cleaning one's house frequently?

Well, I've tried. Of course there are climate cycles, shorter and
longer; of course there are cold snaps. I think the climatologists are
aware of them and have already made allowances for their effects -
they'd look extremely silly if not. And sometimes scientists make
mistakes. Occasionally it's even the sceptics who point it out - as in
the case of Steve MacIntyre pointing out odd jumps in NASA data from
some North American weather stations between 1999 and 2000:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/08/1934-and-all-that/

No-one is hounding him down. NASA GISS thanked him for alerting them,
investigated the cause, and corrected the data within a week (not that
it made a difference to global trends, but it was still good he
mentioned it). If there is fraud or conspiracy, they're being very
subtle.

Anyway, I've spent far too long typing this! Must... stop... now...


author: columbiaaccidentinvestigation

text:
On Jan 30, 9:32 am, "Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com>
wrote:Then quit trying to grab money and power!  All the AGW folks do
is detract from fighting REAL pollution and REAL energy problems.
 Take the "WE ARE GOING TO COLLAPSE EVERY ECONOMY AND MAKE YOU ALL
LIVE IN CAVES!" out of your rant and people would be less
antagonized."

never had it, so you are creating another straw man in expressing your
weak opinions, now you could (i emphasize could) take the bs out of
your posts if you wanted to have any sort of meaningful statement, but
then you would be posting nothing at all. So based on your actions i
don't really care what you think, and i know you have an over inflated
opinion of yourself, that's ok just turn the monitor off, stare and
the reflection and you will see the only one who holds such a high
opinion of you is yourself....


author: Lloyd

text:
On Jan 30, 8:48 am, Thomas <[email]> wrote:

"Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of
human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention."
wikipedia


text:
On Jan 30, 11:24 am, "Tom Gardner" <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:

laughing, you throw (lame and weak) attempts at insults at other
people, and then you characterize your actions as benevolent, man you
are way too full of yourself as your words are laced with antagonism
and not kindness, which demonstrates your above words are hypocritical
in nature, but don't worry I would never expect you to admit it as you
have shown to be your own best supporter...


author: Jayaprakash

text:
Even if specific global warming claims are questionable (and I'm not
conceding that they are, just using it as an as-if), how exactly does
working to protect the environment we all live in and find more
sustainable lifestyles equal a suicidal lemming-march? Your illucidity
is monumental.


text:
On Jan 29, 9:53 am, Thomas <[email]> wrote:

You need to take some of the Hot Aid.

Budikka


text:
On Jan 29, 9:24 pm, "Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com>
wrote:"Na, I don't buy into the leader du jour like the AGW folks.
 It's OK, you guys need a hobby...even if it is world conquest."

Interesting, actually it appears you do, its ok though, people like
you typically and predictably find it necessary to make weak attempts
at insults as you have here, no problem for they are your words and
simply reflect your antagonistic desires....


text:
On Jan 29, 7:09 pm, Tunderbar <[email]> wrote:

I think you mean "if".

I think you mean "if"

Since you've posted this to alt.atheism (why?), I'll draw an analogy
between AGW and atheism. Atheists sometimes say that they would like
to believe in a god that truly cares for humanity, and who will
reunite us in paradise with our loved ones after we die. We wouldn't
have to worry about natural disasters, war, illness and death, and
would no longer face the task of either finding or creating meaning in
this world. This is more or less what most religions say (when they're
not telling us we're damned for not agreeing with them).

Problem is, the real world doesn't offer any evidence of a god like
this, or of any divine intervention in the universe at all for at
least 13.6 billion years.

The up-side to this is that it motivates us to explore how life could
be better, more fulfilling, rather than just accepting what some
preacher says that some ancient book says. If it turns out one day
that a loving, caring god exists, I suspect he/she would be more
pleased if his creations turned out to have some initiative and an
impulse to look after each other, than if they had killed enough
people over a disagreement about a few sentences in a book.

Similarly, it would be great if the evidence started pouring in that
all the warming trends are artefacts, or that they're explained by
solar activity cycles, that there are robust, negative feedback
mechanisms that keep the climate in check. We'd no longer have to
worry about how we can ensure the survival of our species. This is
what most climate change sceptics say (when they don't simply call us
a load of hippies, eco-terrorists or simply misled by all that secular
science - could you make up your mind which, please?).

Once again, the problem is, there is no evidence that this is the
case. The basic science of climate change is not controversial, even
amongst climate change sceptics. CO2 does absorb in the infra-red,
more CO2 traps more heat, and we are adding more CO2 to the
atmosphere. We know that in the palaeoclimate record, CO2 increase
usually trails temperature increase by several hundred years, but then
there weren't 6.5 billion humans around then, pumping CO2 into the
atmosphere. Even if it wasn't the initial trigger then, it was still
responsible for most of the temperature increase through positive
feedback, and a large CO2 release can itself be the trigger for this
feedback cycle.

The upside of this is that we would derive plenty of ancillary
benefits from all this action that you think is unnecessary. No more
worries about political instability in the Gulf because of all that
renewable energy we generated and reduced car use. Reduced winter
mortality in the elderly through all that insulation. Better health
because we walked and cycled more and cut down on particulate
pollution. Cohesive, viable local communities because we buy local
food and goods wherever possible, and haven't bisected our towns with
motorways. More (and better) support of overseas development because
we're setting a better example, and not demanding that poor countries
compete with each other to grow a few cash crops at unstable prices to
satisfy our demand for cheap food. Et cetera, et cetera.

Do you or the OP really think this vision of the future is so horrific?


author: Ye Old One

text:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:53:42 -0800 (PST), Thomas <[email]>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:

Even after 48 hours I'm still very troubled by the programme.

There is a big difference. Global Warning has one hell of a lot of
science to back it up. Jim Jones just had his own warped god.

What the programme did was to show how really stupid religion is.


text:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:53:42 -0800 in
[email], Thomas
<[email]> wrote:

Well, there went your credibility...


text:
Like the Global Warming the henchmen in Jonestown (and all other
cults) was white, suburban, middle-class, college educated idealists
who were cultivated from the Hippy movement in San Francisco while
Jones was based there.

The profile of the average climate activist is the same as the average
cult member in Western societies. ie: white, suburban, middle-class,
college educated idealist.

More interestingly, and tragic (but equally typically) is that these
white kids whom Jim Jones recruited were walking around San Francisco
going on about "peace love, understanding and getting back to nature
and away from 'the Man'. These same white, suburban, middle-class,
college educated idealists last act on this earth was to slaughter
hundreds of poor inner-city African Americans with poisioned Kool-Aid
made by "the Man'.

It is quite possible, that Jim Jones eco-socialist, organic veg
growing white, suburban, middle-class, college educated idealists
slaughtered more African-Americans in a couple of hours than the KKK
did in a century. Likewise climate activist are trying to stop people
in the third world for enjoying a white, suburban, middle-class,
college educated idealists lifestyle.

Ironic isn't it.

The same people who go around looking for an ideal world, are always
driven by a deep rooted need to control others. Be it though statutory
enforcements, cults and as seen at Jonestown, mass murder in order to
maintain their self-delusion as saviours of others. Hence why so many
civil servants tend to involved in these "climate crisis"
organisations they form.

Like I said, only matter of time before we hear about a mass murder at
some eco-sustainable project populated by white, suburban, middle-
class, college educated idealists. Cults always end up like this.


text:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:48:33 -0800 in
[email], Thomas
<[email]> wrote:

Global warming is science.

Just because you're mad at Al Gore doesn't change that.


text:
On Jan 29, 11:57 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <[email]> wrote:

So was eugenics.


author: Bozon

text:
"Thomas" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Jim Jones has morphed into our beloved
"Still-Flogging-Dead-Horse-Socialism" Fran!

Regards

Bonzo

"Attributing global climate change to human CO2 production is akin to
trying to diagnose an automotive problem by ignoring the engine
(analogous to the Sun in the climate system) and the transmission (water
vapour) and instead focusing entirely, not on one nut on a rear wheel,
which would be analogous to total CO2, but on one thread on that nut,
which represents the human contribution." Dr. Timothy Ball, Chairman of
the Natural Resources Stewardship Project (NRSP.com), Former Professor
Of Climatology, University of Winnipeg


text:
On Jan 29, 7:53 am, Thomas <[email]> wrote:" I watched a BBC
documentary on Jim Jones"

missing your leader?


author: Talk-n-Dog

text:
Thomas wrote:

Hence the line, Kool-ade drinking green weenies.

Some people never learn.


text:
On Jan 29, 8:46 am, "Tom Gardner" <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:

na, how about you, are you missing your previous leader jim jones so
bad you need to replace him?


text:
On Jan 29, 10:10 am, "Rob" <[email]> wrote:

same old lame tired stuff, look if you want an ex vp to be your leader
you might want to contact him yourself, and if thomas want jim jones
as his leader that's fine to, but lame tired jokes and idiotic insults
are really just posted around here as weak attempts to rally your
little peanut gallery...


author: Geoff

text:
Thomas wrote:

OK, everyone. It's time to drink your seawater.


author: kT

subject: Christian American Fascist Propaganda - Ignore.

text:
Thomas wrote:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that
link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of
power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in
some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of
similarity.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the
prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins,
the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime
itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious.
Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common
themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a
suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves
viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the
objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the
population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by
marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was
egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most
significant common thread among these regimes was the use of
scapegoating as a means to divert the peopleï¿½s attention from other
problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in
controlled directions. The methods of choiceï¿½relentless propaganda and
disinformationï¿½were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite
ï¿½spontaneousï¿½ acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists,
socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional
national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals,
and ï¿½terrorists.ï¿½ Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably
labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always
identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure
that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was
allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The
military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever
possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and
increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and
the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably
viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion
and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian
laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the
country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media
were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray
from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure
media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to
resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied
threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible
with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the
general public unaware of the regimesï¿½ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security
apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually
an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any
constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting
ï¿½national security,ï¿½ and questioning its activities was portrayed as
unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes,
the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by
their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the
predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as
militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling eliteï¿½s
behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was
generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the
ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the
ï¿½godless.ï¿½ A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite
was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of
ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large
corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The
ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure
military production (in developed states), but also as an additional
means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often
pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of
interests, especially in the repression of ï¿½have-notï¿½ citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was
seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony
of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed
or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion
or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin
to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals
and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them
were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were
considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal.
Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty
harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were
strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and
literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes
maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison
populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked
power, leading to rampant abuse. ï¿½Normalï¿½ and political crime were often
merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against
political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or
ï¿½traitorsï¿½ was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more
police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close
to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This
corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial
gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the
benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a
position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example,
by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus
under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely
unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public
opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates
were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the
desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the
election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters,
destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to
a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is
America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a
free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly
being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are
just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.


text:
On Jan 29, 10:12 am, Talk-n-Dog <[email]> wrote:

I wonder. When they finally see their fraudulent agw construct start
to massively disintegrate before their eyes, how shrill will they get
and how far will they go to get attention and be heard. Will some
drink the koolaide to prove that their beliefs are/were "true"?

When agw scientists are publicly seen by everyone for the frauds that
they are, (Mann, Hansen, etc) will they do what is considered the
honorable thing by many eastern philosophies? Will they take their
shame and literally or figuratively remove themselves from this world?


text:
On Jan 29, 10:53 am, Thomas <[email]> wrote:

Cuckoo!  Cuckoo!  OK, the alien spacecraft behind the comet is ready
for you.


author: Kenny McCormack

text:
In article <[email]>,
Wexford  <[email]> wrote:
...

I know I'm not the 'you' to whom you are writing, but I answered this
question ("What harm does it do...?") in a previous post.

That answer may sound facetious, but it isn't.


author: Bill Ward

text:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:17:48 -0600, Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

First you said there was "no science" behind eugenics, then you say "the
science" is widely available.  That seems to be a contradiction. It's a
good thing you're not interested in convincing anyone.  Must be your AGWer
training.