author: Al Cooperband

subject: Re: What is Earthquake Weather?

text:
Bill -

Please take this constructively, not as criticism: the word is phenomena,
and it is the plural form of phenomenon, which is singular.

On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Bill Smith wrote:

...<snip>...
:Science is one (and only one) method of communicating information and
:experience.  Science is predicated upon setting up conditions so that
:if one person can experience a phenomina, then any other interested
:person can also experience the phenomina.  If any other person cannot
:verify a phenomina, then either there is something wrong with the
:prescribed conditions or there is something wrong with the information
:communicated.  Science is simply one way to communicate.
...<snip>...


author: Bob Shannon

subject: Re: What is Earthquake Weather?

text:
Bill Smith <[email]> wrote:

: Electromagnetic forces are carefully defined so that they can be
: described
: to others.  Electromagnetic forces do not generate ions.  Ions are also
: carefully defined so they can be described by others.

We do know that certain conditions promote or generate positive ions such
as CRT's. There is still quite a market for negative ion generators that
are placed near the monitor, for those who display allergy or discomfort
with positive ions.
  We know that cities close to ocean and lakefronts have more
concentration of negative ions. We also know that negative ions, in
theory, have effect on brain chemistry. It has been shown that some people
have mood upswings after rain or thunderstorms, probably due to negative
ions.

: 1. What we do is affected by unbalanced serotonin/dopamine.
: 2. Serotonin level (?) is disrupted due to electromagnetic forces.
: 3. Serotonin imbalance is implicated in migrates/headaches.
: 4. Anectodal reports of migranes are present prior to earthquakes.

: According to this inference, then what we do must be affected prior
: to earthquakes.  I don't know of any evidence to support this
: supposition, but would be interested in learning more.

As far as I know there is no a priori because there is no developed
theory, however in some areas work is being done to study the possibility
that enzyme levels change in humans prior to earthquakes. Serotonin is
only one of many enzymes. ...while dopamine may be a red herring....
  I have a large circle of people who take SSRI anti-depressants as well
as other such as lithuim and tricyclics such as Elavil and Doxepan.
Many have reported much higher sensitivity whiel taking these medications,
but there is not enough evidence or interest to get some real science
going in this area.


author: John

subject: Treadmill, Proform J8Li (Model # 831.297990)

text:
Hi everyone,

I am trying to breath life back into our treadmill. It's a ProForm J8Li
Sears Model 831.297990. This model has the cushioned running platform
and the constant torque motor. Needless to say it is a nice machine. We
bought it new in 1999 (for a $1000.00 on sale. I think it was $1499.99
retail). Anyway, we purchased the service plan and two years later we
had Sears replace the Motor Controller Board.

Now, the Motor Controller Board went out again. Current Symptoms:
Turn on Machine
Incline motor sounds like soft relay chatter.
Then came that burning smell ... so I unplugged it.

Then:
I pulled the cover.
Took a look ... nothing obviously burnt.
Plugged the machine back in and fired it up.
Power supply board LEDs illuminated for all of the voltages (except PWM
LED). I assumed for now that everything was ok.
The Incline motor growled.
I metered the pins to the Incline motor (120V two hots and a neutral.
One hot raises, other hot lowers. I am assuming they are controlling
motor direction via the split capacitor attached to the drive unit that
these wires terminate into. When I metered this wire set, both hots had
120V.

I remember DC motors having a brake option and I wondered if this is
how they "hold" the incline at a given level. So, I "hotwired" the
incline motor to set an incline on the treadmill bed. When I set an
incline, I removed the 120V power. The weight of the bed alone causes
the unit to "backspin" and the bed returns to the 0 incline position.
So maybe that part is working ok. I am not sure.

What never illuminated was the PWM light on the Power Supply board. I
remembered that the incline used to go through a 'quick cycle' before
the display board lit up. So, I looked at the notched, counting disk on
the incline motor and "mimicked" movement. The display beeped,
illuminated and so I pushed the start button. The PWM light began
blinking on the Power Supply Board.

It was the motor controller board --again. --Sigh.

So I pulled the Controller Board.

I checked the Zeners, power diodes and such. D1 is a TO-220 package (I
think that is the size ... it's been a few years since college and I am
more electrically-oriented than electronically). I checked it with my
Fluke 87 and I got 0.4V forward biased and 1.2V reverse biased
(measured in circuit). There might be enough of the junction left to
meter at low voltage, but could it be failing under full voltage? THEN
I noticed the case of D1 was cracked ... rather blatantly cracked, so I
am assuming I have found at least one problem. I can't remember the
approximate R-values for a leaky FET. This board has a IRF250 Fet
(that's an N-channel, right?). Looks like the gate is driven off of a
relay and the D1 diode is [snubbing?] the stored energy of the drive
motor to protect the FET, right?

Anyway, to make a long story short. I was wondering if I was on the
right track. This diode has the weirdest part number I have ever seen.
And I don't remember what the approximates are for checking for a leaky
FET. I went to Icon's website and they want about $170.00 for a new
board (with the same crappy parts?). So I thought I would see if anyone
has 'beefed these up'. So, If anyone has got some experience with these
controllers, or even a schematic, then I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,
John


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Treadmill, Proform J8Li (Model # 831.297990)

text:
John:
I repaired a motor controller board for a Sears treadmil a few months
ago. I don't
think it was the same model. My board had about 5  SCRs on a heat sink
that wrapped around the board. Two of the SCRs were bad; replaced them
and that fixed the problem. Some of the SCRs were used as diodes to
convert the input AC to DC to provide the running voltages. I had to
get
the exact same SCRs for the unit to work. They were in TO-220 cases.
Hope this helps..
John G


text:
Hi John G.,

I believe you are describing the MC-60 board. I can tell you that,
visually and electronically, it is a completely different animal. My
board has only one heat sink that goes down one side of the board.
Screwed to that decent radiator is a single FET and a High Powered
Diode of some sort.

Thanks for the help, but repairing an MC-70 with notes on an MC-60 will
be helpful, but it's probably not going to get me to the finish line.

The big Identifier of an MC-70 is two large black ELNA electrolytics
sitting next to a one big mother of a brick-cased rectifier, and a heat
sink that runs the length of one side of the board.

Here is a link to a page displaying the MC-60 and the MC-70 boards.
Maybe this will help others help me.

http://www.treadmilldoctorstore.com/Products-Services/Power-Boards-Electronics_5

Thanks to John G. for trying,
John


author: Franc Zabkar

text:
On 30 Nov 2006 05:18:21 -0800, "John" <[email]> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

Part number?

I don't have any experience with your treadmill, but that doesn't
sound right.

The specs of the IRF250 are 200V, 30A, 150W, RDSon = 0.085 ohm. You
might try to find a MOSFET with a lower RDSon. That would reduce its
power dissipation.

- Franc Zabkar


text:
Dang! You're right Franc, that doesn't sound right. What the heck was I
thinking? The FET has to be fed by a smaller amplifier driver, or
directly from the output of a PWM circuit. I remember building a
variable PWM circuit with a 555 timer (1st semester freshman year in
digital design 101).

I'll get the part number for the diode. D1 has only two leads.

What the heck is the relay for? Oh ... duhh. It's for the bridge
rectifier ... that's a DC motor! So the Motor Controller Board has it's
own power supply that is completely separate from the Power Supply
Board. The Power Supply board just powers the treadmill computer and
sensors. Yeah, that makes sense. They must have done that to keep the
noise out of the computer electronic circuits.

All right. I'll go stare at the board again.


author: Jean-Francois Martin

subject: Colias butterflies atlas

text:
Dear All,

In the course of a research project I am looking for the precise locations
of butterfly populations of the genus Colias in Europe. I am looking for all
the species present in Europe as the USA are already covered. The objectives
of the research project are to dissect the mecanisms of molecular adaptation
in these butterflies working on the habitat-dependant selective pressure on
metabolism.
We therefore need as many informations regarding the dynamics, ecology and
physiology of these butterflies and this is why I would like to work on as
many diverse environmental conditions and geographical locations as
possible.
In case you can provide some informations or you just want more informations
about the project please contact me : [email]

Thank you in advance !

Jef Martin

____________________________________________________________
Dr Jean-Franï¿½ois Martin                    Tel:  Int. +33 4 67 59 31 06
Post-doc scientist                              Fax: Int. +33 4 67 59 9040
CSIRO European Laboratory              Email: [email]
Campus International de Baillarguet
34980 Montferrier-sur-Lez                  Web Site: <www.csiro-europe.org>
FRANCE

Please note our new email address and website


author: Richard Seaby

subject: Re: Colias butterflies atlas

text:
I assume you have tried Butterfly Conservation in the UK if not they
have huge amounts of data on the UK butterfly and moth populations.

their contacts are
Butterfly Conservation
Manor Yard
East Lulworth
Wareham
Dorset BH20 5QP
Tel. 01929 400209       Fax 01929 400210

Email: [email]

http://www.butterfly-conservation.org
Tel: +44 (0) 1929 400209

In article <9dtnfr$sa3$[email]>, Jean-Francois Martin
<[email]> writes


author: Xargos

subject: Re: Colias butterflies atlas

text:
Tu as essayer de voir avec la facultï¿½ agronomique de gembloux (en belgique)
? ils ont pas mal de doc sur les population d insectes en belgique.


author: Ben Bullock

subject: "Akai unmei"

text:
Following on from those other translation questions involving colours,
what's the "akai" in "akai unmei" and all the other "akai" series
television programmes?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:53:33 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

Is that because you don't want to take a chance?


author: Ben Finney

subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

Let's rather say that I've taken too many of that particular chance.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 21:34:20 +0900, chance wrote:

Don't worry, you've managed to avoid any danger of making any sense at
all.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 23:54:54 +0900, chance wrote:

You don't seem to need any help with that task.

A danger that you may never experience, my friend.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 02:10:09 +0900, chance wrote:

I don't see how getting angry is going to make any difference. Next
time, why don't you actually try to contribute something to the
discussion at hand rather than trying to drag the discussion off into
another direction? And, lest we forget, it was you, chance, that
started making personal remarks here.

You've been watching your collection of samurai films on DVD again,
haven't you?


author: Bart Mathias

subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 02:15:13 +0000 (UTC)
Ben Bullock <[email]> wrote:

It turns out that the 1978 series was "Zoku jagaimo." Mori Mitsuko, Sano Asao,
Miura Tomokazu (I think your singer knew him), Baishou Mitsuko, Osaka Shirou,
and Hana Hajime. The earlier one played here in '76; mostly the same cast, but
I don't think Baishou Mitsuko was in it.

I can't remember for sure whether I ever watched it; I *think* I did, but no
memory lingers. I hadn't ever heard of Ryouma at that time.

Maybe. Sounds right, but odd I don't remember the unusual reading.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:32:35 +0000, Bart Mathias wrote:

Akai series was I think from 1975 to 1980. I watched them piecemeal on
cable TV about ten years ago. I didn't really catch on that they were
about completely different people (but played by the same actors) until I
think nearly the end! I don't remember Tomokazu but I remember going on
to watch Yusaku Matsuda (who was in Akai Meiro) in "Tantei
Monogatari" (the TV programme with the bizarre theme music about "fat
city" and "bad city" and "fat city bad"). At the time I had no idea Momoe
was a singer. In fact the main reason I watched it at first was to catch
her name since I'd noticed she was almost perfect lookalike of someone I
knew. For some reason I kept on watching it. Akai Meiro is due to be
repeated on cable TV from November, but it's "yuuryou" so I'm debating
whether to pay 640 yen for it or not.

This time I watched the DVD series of Akai Unmei from start to finish; it
got a bit repetitive at times I must say. The male lead in this show,
Yutaka Nanjo, actually seems to have almost disappeared from showbiz
after this ended. The best actor in Akai Unmei I thought was Rentaro
Mikuni, who I hadn't known of until now. After I took back the last of
the Akai Unmei's, I rented Kiga Kaikyou (Straits of Hunger) & am
currently 1/3 of the way through it. Takashi Shimura, who was also in
most of Kurosawa's films like Seven Samurai and Tsubaki Sanjuro was also
in Akai Unmei, as Momoe's grandfather.

I noticed there is a section in the Japanese DVD rental shop about Taiga
Dorama.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:53:28 +0300
"Tzortzakakis Dimitris" <[email]> wrote:

I wouldn't have any idea how to do that.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:40:48 +0300, Tzortzakakis Dimitris wrote:
i Kizuna" rather than "Kankei"?

You'll be watching a samui television with that kind of gag.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Oct 21, 2:03 am, Ben Bullock <[email]> wrote:

Note also there was a "shiroi" series at the same time.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

Pretty clearly, then, it's a reference to the colours 赤い and 白い.

But I guess you're trying to determine whether it's a pun or other
double meaning, yes?

(Note that I have no experience of the shows you're referring to, so I
could be missing the point.)


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

My local NSoJ says 『赤い運命』 <URL:http://www.tbs.co.jp/a-unmei/> is
an old TV drama series. The “red destiny” refers to the heated,
unavoidable, dramatic struggles between the protagonists.

To be honest, I didn't much understand the associations with the title;
it seems to be culturally embedded and difficult to explain to this 外人.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:55:40 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

"Red fate"?

No, if you can explain to me how a fate can be red, that is fine. I await
your explanation.

No, no, since "red fate" makes sense to you without watching the shows,
it's OK, but could you explain it to me?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

As I understand it from
<URL:http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B5%A4%E3%81%84%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA>,
the first series was named 『赤い迷路』, “red maze”; and the rest of
them were named according to the established theme.

I wouldn't expect it to make sense literally; as a drama show title, to
me it's more plausible that they're going for poetic impact.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Ben Bullock <[email]> wrote:

Didn't those come later than the "vegetable" series (Jagaimo, etc.)? Hmmm,
Jagaimo ran here in 1978.

My memory of those days is really dim. I'd been wondering lately, as a viewer
of the current Taigadorama, what was the name of the Ryouma series I used to
watch, and it turns out to be much longer ago than I thought: "Ryouma-ga aishita
onna" ended here in November 1975, only shortly after my arrival in Hawaii!

Even "Ikkyuusan" and "Arigatou" were way back in the 70's. Maybe. I may remember
Ikkyuu from 1984~5. "Akai Kankei" was playing at that time, but I don't remember
it at all (that was during my subtitling period when I may have cut back on
watching other programs). One of the "Akai" series?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Ben Bullock <[email]> wrote:

At first I thought I remembered that, but it turns out that what I recall was
one of the "season" series, "Fuyu-no kumo," "Haru-no arashi," "Shiroi natsu,"
"??? aki," which was assigned to me. Egads, even that is over 25 years ago!


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 01:29:35 +0000, Bart Mathias wrote:

I don't know that one.

I've never seen those, any good?

Maybe "Akai Kizuna" rather than "Kankei"?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:49:19 +0900, chance wrote:

I think this is a very important question. To summarize, What's the deal
with the devout denizen who dismisses dreary doubts and disputes as
difficult? Did he deride danger, or did he decide to develop the
discussion with a definite and decisive dedication?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

Quite a queer question. I quail with a quantity of quiescence, but
quickly quip that I quest no quarrel.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:35:18 +0900, chance wrote:

It wasn't me, it was Ben Finney. The first name is the same but the
second one is different. My last name is Bullock and his is Finney.
Finney has six letters and Bullock has seven letters. So if you get
confused, try counting the letters in the surname.

Is this actually related to anything in particular or were you just
looking for an excuse to let out this particular opinion and thought this
thread might be a good opportunity?

Hmm?

I am happy to tell you but I don't understand your enquiry very well.

I am studying Japanese by watching DVDs of "Akai Unmei". Also I studied
some more by translating a long blog article into English from Japanese.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 23:21:01 +0900, chance wrote:

Yes, as you percepted wisely, I am kidding you, or joshing with you. I am
making so-called amusing remarks, which may not actually be funny,
depending on the person listening or reading.

Incidentally, this is a very bad habit of mine. For example, when my son
announced he was getting out of the bath today, I made a remark about
models. My son said this remark was not funny. Or when my children were
talking about how many people could sit in my car, I said that eight
people could sit in it, but the eighth person was irresponsible. This is
the kind of inane witticism of which I am guilty of, sir.

In plain English, that means "what does the above have to do with the
topic under discussion?"


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 12:20:14 +0900, chance wrote:

The above paragraph is about me making bad puns in Japanese.

Is that related to the discussion, though?

It was not you but the devout denizen (Ben Finney) who derided danger.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

Who did what now?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 16:18:10 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

You're not paying attention.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 02:20:20 -0700, [email] wrote:

I was pretty sure Louise would appear if this thread went on for long
enough.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Bullock <[email]> writes:

No, but you're claiming I did something, but I don't know what it is. Is
there something I should know?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 22:42:15 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

Is it asking too much of you to go back and look at the previous messages
in this thread? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to explain to you which
you couldn't easily find out by reviewing previous messages.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Jens Egon Nyborg <[email]> writes:

Ah. My forum reader is set to ignore messages from “chance”
automatically. Thanks for re-phrasing it.

Not on my part; I didn't understand it, and my NSoJ found it difficult
to explain to me. They weren't motivated to continue with the effort.

I got as much of an answer as seemed feasible with the resources I could
muster for the issue.

My provisional conclusion, “poetic-impact short titles don't need to
make much literal sense”, was satisfactory to me and I said as much
here.

Thanks for the explanation, I agree with you
.


author: chance

subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Bullock" <[email]> wrote in message
news:ia1ea9$3pd$[email]...

Are you going to make a fool of me?  What is the danger of making any sense
at all?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Bullock" <[email]> wrote in message
news:ia1lr6$8c3$[email]...

ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½Þ¡ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½?ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½Ñªï¿½Ðªï¿½ï¿½Ëªï¿½ï¿½Æªï¿½Îªï¿½ï¿½ï¿½

ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½Þ¡ï¿½ï¿½ÒªÉªï¿½ï¿½ï¿½Ëªï¿½ï¿½ïª»ï¿½Æªï¿½?ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½

ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½


author: Tzortzakakis Dimitris

subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
ï¿½ "Ben Bullock" <[email]> ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½
news:iadmnv$vc8$[email]...
Well, you can watch it on an Akai TV ;-)


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
? "Bart Mathias" <[email]> ?????? ??? ??????
news:[email]...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:53:28 +0300
"Tzortzakakis Dimitris" <[email]> wrote:

:I wouldn't have any idea how to do that.
Akai is a japanese electronics' brand, just like Sony or Panasonic, probably
you have come across any of their products? The name is written in romaji,
of course, so I am not sure if it means "red" in this case.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Finney" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I wonder why you, ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½, seem to be interested,  if any, in things Japanese,
and involved here, if you dismiss something Japanese as 'difficult'.
If I were you, as it is as mentioned, I would've rather have given up
instead of bothering, if any, about here, at all. But, the fact is that
you are one of the most devout denizens here. What's the deal with you?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
On Oct 23, 6:18 am, Ben Finney <[email]>
wrote:

*makes popcorn*

*sits back*

*enjoys*


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Bullock" <[email]> wrote in message
news:i9r4e0$kmu$[email]...

What's the big deal? You can no longer cite 'gaijin' as pretext of evading
'difficult' questions regarding Japanese, can you? Everyone is 'gaijin'
here,
except a few, namely, Kouji, Bungo and muchan.
 It's  no longer a wand to wave as an excuse of  avoiding  being accused of
indolence
of having not studied 'enough'. As Bart pointed out, nowadays there are a
lot of 'cheat sheets'
cluttering the whole world, so that it is true dream come true for everyone
as far as schooling
is concerned.

By the way, what does 'danger' foretell?  Tell me.
If anything, we'd better decide to study Japanese with a definite and
decisive dedication,
if we are supposed to be 'studying'  Japanese. Isn't that right?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Bullock" <[email]> wrote in message
news:i9s3d4$4ts$[email]...

Are you kidding me?

I am happy to answer your question but I don't understand your enquiry very
well.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Bullock" <[email]> wrote in message
news:i9seva$nnj$[email]...

You are still making fun of me.

Yes. I meant to say, 'You can be a good student if you so desire.'

Meanwhile, in plain English, what danger is it I derided?


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Bullock" <[email]> wrote in message
news:i9tm2i$7ql$[email]...

In a way.

Is that so? Thst's that.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"Ben Finney" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Now, what danger is it I derided, Ben Bullock?


author: Jens Egon Nyborg

subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
Ben Finney skrev:

It seems to me that Mr. Chance took your sentence:
"To be honest, I didn't much understand the associations with the title;
it seems to be culturally embedded and difficult to explain to this 外
人." to be defeatist.

The question now seems to be, whether you gave up on understanding
because of mere difficulty or not.

As a beginning student of Japanese I feel I run into similar things,
quite often. What do you do when you can't even begin to understand the
explanation to your question?

I think the proper reaction is to abandon the question for the time
being, and attack whatever glimmer of understanding you did have.

Anyway, I'm just a newbie and may have misunderstood completely, I only
piped up because I thought Mr. Bullock was indeed, asking too much, when
he asked you to search through the archives for any sense in this
discussion.


subject: Re: "Akai unmei"

text:
"chance" <[email]> wrote in message
news:i9tnas$j4j$[email]...

I almost forgot.
What danger is it Ben Finney derided?


author: Maurice

subject: Using longer routes in emap

text:
Hi,

I have created a route for a motorcycle tour I am organizing, but it won't
fit into my eMap's memory. I created the 200 km route in Metroguide, and
send it to the unit. Even if I split the route in 4 50km segments, 2 of the
segments will not fit in the unit, and are being truncated.

Is there a way in Mapsource put longer routes in an eMap? Or to link
multiple routes into one big one?

Maurice


author: Dale DePriest

subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
The emap has a 50 turn limit per route so you routes will need to be
split to this level. There is no other way to do this on the emap.  It
is not a matter of length it is a matter of the number of turns in the
map. Perhaps you can just reduce the number of turns by only using the
ones that really matter as decision points. This is what I usually do
and I can generally get a long route in my emap.  I can usually follow
the road itself between decision turning points so I don't need the gps
for this.

Dale

Maurice wrote:


author: billcotton

subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
I have posted my solution previously. The number of turns are the key,
however, Route that uses Midwest type of interstate can go longer distances.
I watch the loading graph and if the truncate beep occurs at 50 percent or
more, you can reverse the route in the map software and load it to the GPS
with a different name.
For my seventy first birthday bicycle ride in June, I have load a 400 miles
route that I will do in 40 continues hours. The G7towin file, and a Topo4
file is just under 500 way points
The files are at http://www.billcotton.com/MY_rides.htm


author: Ibikealot

subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
While we're discussing multiple routes, does anyone know how to manage
this on a long trip when you are carrying all your gear and you don't
want to carry a laptop?  One thought was to load all the routes on a
CD with G7towin on the CD, and with a cable, download the routes off
the CD from a borrowed computer.  Do you think it is possible to use a
computer on the road to do this?  Library? Motel, etc.?  Using a
PocketPC would work, I think, but they are expensive.  There is a
G7towin version that runs on a Tornada.  Any other ideas?

"billcotton" <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: Carsten Kurz

subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
Ibikealot schrieb:

Use a PDA. Even the cheapest units will do that. You can get a used PalmPilot
for 30-50 US$ I guess. They have enough storage space.
Software is free.

- Carsten


subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
Carsten Kurz wrote:

Exactly, check my site for a list of programs that will run on pda's.

dale


author: Mario Nappa

subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
What software would be good on a Palm V to be able to move routes back and
forth to an Emap?  Where can I get the cable to do this as well?

Mario

"Dale DePriest" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
PalmPilot


subject: Re: Using longer routes in emap

text:
Mario Nappa wrote:

They are all listed on my site.  From my home page click on Palm OS.
You can then click on Cable information for a list of cables vendors.
Click on Garmin Specific for specific software for Garmin units.

Isn't that enough help?

Dale


author: Far

subject: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
Please assist me in making a choice between the above units.  I would like
to use it in my vehicle most of the time.
Because of price I eliminated the Streetpilot 3 from my choices.


subject: Re: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
If you are in the USA and want the autoroute function, go to the V. If
autoroute is not important, get the 176.

in article [email], Far at [email] wrote on
11/8/02 3:42 AM:


author: Sylvain

subject: Re: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
For car using no doubt get the GPS V it has auto-routing feature.

"Far" <[email]> a ï¿½crit dans le message de news:
[email]...


author: David Aldis

subject: Re: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
You've already bought a V, so this is academic, but as you're in South
Africa, and as there is no auto routing mapping available there, then
I would have gone for the 176.

A lot of South African residents are big into off-roading (like us
expats in the Middle East-no real mapping here either), and I find the
bigger screen of the 176 much better for that sort of stuff.

AFAIK, the 176 holds more waypoints in a route, and a longer tracklog
as well (could well be wrong on that....)

na <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
Doesn't the GPSMAP 196 auto-route?

"Sylvain" <[email]> wrote:


subject: Re: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
Thanks, I have now purchased the GPS V
"Sylvain" <[email]> wrote in message
news:yxJy9.12623$[email]...
like


subject: Re: Garmin GPS V Versus GPSMAP 176?

text:
There is a new City Select product for South Africa with autorouting.

Dale


author: Lester T. Linpord

subject: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
This new species of trees seems to be much more advanced than any
known plant on this planet.It seems to be able to communicate, able to
think and even able to walk.

This is a great discovery, but I had to promise the trees not to tell
anyone about them, because they know that humans would hunt them.

So what should I do now ?


author: P van Rijckevorsel

subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
Lester T. Linpord <[email]> schreef
known plant on this planet.It seems to be able to communicate, able to
think and even able to walk.

anyone about them, because they know that humans would hunt them.

+ + +
Surely that is obvious. You should write a book, presenting this as fiction.
Only way anybody will believe it. Perhaps a sequel to "The Krugg Syndrome"?
PvR


author: Phred

subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] (Lester T. Linpord) wrote:

I appreciate your problem.  Normally, if it stands still you cut it
down; and if it moves you shoot it.

So, a walking tree...  Do you shoot or cut first?

Is it a simple animal ethics question, or more to do with
parapsychology?

Mind you, if your intelligent trees had any brains, they would have
shut up and stopped moving around.  (The Farside cows had much more
sense.)

Cheers, Phred.


author: Iris Cohen

subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
<< It seems to be able to communicate, able to
think and even able to walk.

This is a great discovery, but I had to promise the trees not to tell
anyone about them, because they know that humans would hunt them.

So what should I do now ? >>

See your doctor. You may need a medication change.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)


author: Cereus-validus

subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
Not this asinine drivel again.

Has it been six months already?

Recycling the same stupid nonsense.

You must be back in the delusional manic phase of your cycle again.

How about those 12 monkeys?

Lester T. Linpord <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Peter Jason

subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
What you should do now is:

1/    Be polite to the trees and assuage any anxiety with smooth talk, and
appeal to their baser nature by promising them fresh fertilizer at rates
below the market.

2/    After taking your leave in the most polite fashion, repair with the
greatest haste to the nearest Arab state with the news about slave trees
just standing around waiting for capture and transportation.

3/    Charge your usual fee for this service, and retire a rich man.

"Lester T. Linpord" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: Salty Thumb

subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
[email] (Lester T. Linpord) wrote in
news:[email]:

Having broken your promise to the trees, you must of course either shoot
yourself dead or disappear into the jungle, never to be heard from again.


subject: Re: Found intelligent trees in Africa

text:
Phred <[email]> schreef
 down; and if it moves you shoot it.

+ + +
This shows a very pronounced cultural bias!
In many parts of the world shooting does not come into it.
Anything that cannot outrun a man can be trampled, strangled, stabbed,
hacked or clubbed to death. Many things that can outrun a man can be lured
into a trap or snare (and then trampled, strangled, stabbed, hacked or
clubbed to death).
+ + +

+ + +
How about communicating first?
+ + +

 parapsychology?

+ + +
This would depend on the method of communication
(perhaps also on the way of walking?)
+ + +

 shut up and stopped moving around.  (The Farside cows had much more
sense.)

+ + +
This is a matter of sense (experience) rather than brains ...
Besides that, all they did was communicate with somebody who is not
believed, by anybody.
PvR


author: Irv Crontzmeyer

subject: Marketing for a small business

text:
I was recently introduced to the Marketbuilding Team
(www.marketbuilding.com). They've got this marketing kit where you just fill
in the blanks and you're ready to market your business. From what I can see,
this company is the only one on the market with a kit focusing specifically
on the nursing community. They even have this VERY user-friendly book called
REMOVING THE MYSTERY FROM MARKETING. I love working with them. You should
check it out.


author: Goomba

subject: Re: Marketing for a small business

text:
Irv Crontzmeyer wrote:

What bogus spam !!  You actually think we believe this hooey? ::eye roll:::


subject: Re: Marketing for a small business

text:
I'm sorry that you can't distinguish between SPAM and a genuine endorsement.
If you had checked out the site, or even (SHOCK!) worked with these guys,
you would probably feel differently!

"Goomba" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
fill
see,
specifically
called
should
roll:::


author: DLP RN 54

subject: Re: Marketing for a small business

text:
I'm sorry that you can't distinguish between SPAM and a genuine endorsement.
If you had checked out the site, or even (SHOCK!) worked with these guys,
you would probably feel differently!
-------

I seriously doubt that!!! LOL...It's spam, plain and simple. You may be able to
fool a few, but not us hardend net users..:)


author: Ilena Rose

subject: Uranium used in False Teeth ... until the 80's

text:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_107.html

Is uranium added to false teeth to give them a natural glow?
04-Oct-1996

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Cecil:

About 15 years ago I read an obscure government publication on the use
of uranium in dental porcelain. It said uranium is added to dental
porcelain for cosmetic reasons, to make the porcelain more luminous
like natural teeth. It was estimated that this use of uranium causes
about 2,000 cases of cancer per year. I've since mentioned this to
many dentists, but none of them had ever heard of this.

Cecil, I'm counting on you to find out what's going on here.
Preferably before I need more dental work. And while you're at it,
what is the safest dental material? --Pearl E. White, Chicago

Cecil replies:

You read right, friend--no mean achievement in the age of MTV. In one
of those classic wacky moves, manufacturers once upon a time put
uranium in dental porcelain to give crowns and false teeth that
certain glow.

Real teeth have natural fluorescence. If you shine a black light on
your teeth they gleam a brilliant white. To give dental work the same
glow, the use of uranium in dental porcelain was patented in 1942.

The timing of this was suspicious. You have to wonder if those
Manhattan Project scientists, toiling over crucibles of hot uranium,
got to thinking, hey, if this atom-bomb thing flops, we can always go
into teeth.

The glow imparted to false teeth by uranium was not a consequence of
radioactivity. Uranium merely happens to fluoresce in the presence of
UV light. Fluorescence is harmless; lots of compounds do it. Uranium's
advantage was that it would survive the high heat of porcelain
manufacture.

Still, you did have the problem that uranium was radioactive. In the
wake of Hiroshima and Nagasaki it occurred to the dental-ceramics
industry that a substance that had destroyed cities might not be such
a good thing to use in somebody's mouth. Manufacturers discussed the
situation with the Atomic Energy Commission in the 1950s. The debate
proceeded along the following lines. On the one hand, putting uranium
in people's mouths might possibly give them cancer and kill them. On
the other hand, their teeth looked great. It was an easy call. The
industry was given a federal exemption to continue using uranium.

In the 1970s some began to wonder if this had been the world's
smartest decision. The amount of uranium used in dental porcelain was
small--0.05 percent by weight in the U.S., 0.1 percent in Germany.
Nonetheless the fake teeth bombarded the oral mucosa with radiation
that was maybe eight times higher than normal background radiation.
None of the research I came across mentioned a specific number of
cancer deaths, but clearly this was not something you'd do for the
health benefits.

There was also the unavoidable fact that the aesthetic gains achieved
using uranium were slight. To see the teeth fluoresce you needed UV
light, and, as one study sniffily noted, "UV lamps are used mainly in
some discotheques and restaurants" frequented by "only a very small
fraction of the population with these types of restorations."

But come on, you're thinking. If even one guy with fake teeth looked
good in a disco, wasn't that worth a little risk?

Even that advantage turned out to be illusory, however. Though it was
claimed that the best uranium compounds replicated the white
fluorescence of natural teeth, research showed that some porcelain
teeth fluoresced red, violet, or bright yellow. In other words, not
only were you nuking your gums, when you opened your mouth you looked
like a neon sign.

That put the matter over the top. Numerous authorities urged that the
use of uranium in dental porcelain be discontinued, and in the
mid-1980s the federal exemption was revoked. Most dental porcelain
sold today is uranium-free.

What's the safest dental material? One guess: real teeth. Guaranteed
against silent horrors unless someone sneaks up and bites you. Brush
'em after every meal, because who knows what the dental industry will
think up next?

--CECIL ADAMS


author: Steven Bornfeld

subject: Re: Uranium used in False Teeth ... until the 80's

text:
Ilena Rose wrote:

	Interesting bit of history--thanks!
	I have heard that uranium WAS in fact used in denture teeth at one
time.  I have been unable to find any evidence that this was done less
than about 50 years ago, however.

Steve


text:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:19:03 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
<[email]> wrote:

Here's some more:

Uranium Containing Dentures (ca. 1960s, 1970s)

 http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/dentures.htm

Modern dentures are typically made from acrylic plastic, but at least
until the 1980s, porcelain was also very commonly used.

In the 1940s, manufacturers began adding uranium to the porcelain
powder used to make dentures. The idea was that the fluorescence of
the uranium would help mimic the look of real teeth under a variety of
natural and artificial light conditions.  Uranium had the advantage
over some of the alternative materials because its fluorescence is
unaffected by the high temperatures (800 ï¿½ 1400 degrees centigrade)
used to bake the porcelain. According to NCRP 95, it seems that
manufacturers had stopped adding uranium to porcelain dentures by 1986
or so.

Papastefanou et al (1987) measured uranium levels in 22 samples of
porcelain powders used in Greece and found that the concentrations
ranged from 3.6 Bq/kg (0.1 pC/g) to 5600 Bq/kg (151 pCi/g).  A more
limited study in 1977 by Binney and Scherpelz indicated an average
uranium concentration of 224 ppm (2,760 Bq/kg or 70 pCi/g). In England
, Oï¿½Riordan and Hunt estimated that the average concentration in the
porcelain powders might be as high as 5,060 Bq/kg (136 pCi/g).
Sairenji et al measured uranium concentrations in Japanese dental
powders ranging from 4.56 Bq/kg (0.12 pCi/g) to 1,000 Bq/kg (27
pCi/g).

Note that the naturally occurring potassium-40 in these dentures can
contribute significantly to their overall radioactivity.

It is likely that the dose to the oral mucosa as a result of the
uranium in dentures is primarily due to the beta particles emitted by
the decay products of U-238: Th-234 and Pa-234m. The contribution of
the alpha particles to the dose is hard to predict due to the
tremendous uncertainties in their attenuation.

One investigation in Great Britain (Oï¿½Riordan and Hunt 1974) estimated
that a set of porcelain dentures containing 0.1 % uranium might
deliver an annual dose to the oral mucosa of 600 rem by the emitted
alphas and 2.8 rem by the beta particles. A 1987 study by Papastefanou
et al calculated a similar dose: 400 rem per year.  Don Thompson, with
the US FDA, calculated a dose of approximately 130 rem per year to the
oral mucosa due to the alpha emissions from dentures with a uranium
concentration of 0.044 %. NCRP Report No. 95 estimated that the annual
beta dose to the basal cells of the mucosa (the most sensitive portion
of the oral mucosa) was 0.7 rem.  This dose was due to the betas
emitted by potassium-40 as well as the decay products of the uranium.
When they factored in the percent of the population that did not have
uranium-containing dental prostheses, the NCRP estimated that the
average beta dose to the basal cells of the mucosa in the US
population was approximately 0.13 rem. To permit a calculation of the
effective dose equivalent, the NCRP also employed a weighting factor
of 0.0001 for the basal cells of the mucosa.

The pertinent Nuclear Regulatory Commission regulations (2003), found
in 10 CFR 40.13a are as follows:

"40.13 Unimportant quantities of source material.

 (a) Any person is exempt from the regulations in this part and from
the requirements for a license set forth in section 62 of the Act to
the extent that such person receives, possesses, uses, transfers or
delivers source material in any chemical mixture, compound, solution,
or alloy in which the source material is by weight less than
one-twentieth of 1 percent (0.05 percent) of the mixture, compound,
solution or alloy."

This limit of 0.05 % (500 ppm uranium) equates to approximately 167
pCi/g or 6,170 Bq/kg.

References

Binney, S. and Scherpelz, R. Technique for Rapid Analysis of Uranium
in Porcelain Dentures. Health Physics 33: 341-343; 1977

Dietz, C. US Patent Number 301,174;  1942.

NCRP. Radiation Exposure of the U.S. Population from Consumer Products
and Miscellaneous Sources. NCRP Report No. 95; 1987.

Papastefanou, C., Vitsentzos, S. and Garefis, P.  Uranium in Dental
Porcelain Powders and Dose Induced in Oral Mucosa. Radiation
Protection Dosimetry 19(1): 49-53, 1987.

Thompson, D. Recommendations on the Use of Uranium in Porcelain Teeth.
in NUREG/CP-0001, Radioactivity in Consumer Products. August 1978.


author: Vaughn

text:
"Steven Bornfeld" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

     Of course, beryllium is STILL used...
http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19990902.html

Vaughn


text:
Vaughn wrote:

	Yeah, it is.  Apparently if it ain't nuclear (or should I say nucular)
it ain't sexy enough for the media--even the alternative crowd.
	I have to thank you Vaughn for bringing this to my attention.

Steve


author: Mark & Steven Bornfeld

text:
Ilena Rose wrote:

	Porcelain is still commonly used (but not by me).
	I don't know if this is a particular problem in Greece or the UK.  I
don't know of any labs using denture teeth from Greece or the UK.
Perhaps other dentists can chime in.

Steve


text:
"Steven Bornfeld" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

     Actually it *is* nuclear.  Many (perhaps most) people who have chronic
beryllium disease have been working in AEC bomb plants like Rocky Flats in
Colorado.

     Beryllium is used extensively in nuclear weapons, but its most critical use
is when it is combined with polonium 210 to make the intitator which sits in the
very heart of the weapon and actually initiates the chain reaction.   This is
the stuff of international politics!  Note this article from today's news:
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1395

"A neutron initiator starts the chain reaction that leads to nuclear fission,
and along with the nuclear fuel and the delivery system is an essential part of
an atomic bomb. "

""Tehran has already succeeded in using beryllium in conjunction with
polonium-210 for large-scale laboratory testing purposes, and is getting very
close to the point of industrial production," Mohammad Mohaddessin, the NCRI's
foreign affairs committee chairman, told a news conference. "

"In recent months the NCRI has produced evidence purporting to show that the
Islamic republic is well advanced in its production of enriched uranium fuel and
in the development of a missile capable of delivering nuclear warheads."

     In the heart of an atomic weapon, or incorporated into your teeth,
beryllium is nasty stuff.

Vaughn


text:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:46:35 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <[email]> wrote:

Porcelain denture teeth are still made, but they are horribly expensive.

Currently make about one/year. And yes, it costs extra.


text:
Vaughn wrote:

	Interesting.  Maybe the media will get interested now.

Steve


author: Nana Weedkiller

text:
"Vaughn" <[email]> wrote in message
news:BZJff.129957$[email]...

Well, I guess the paranoid among us will have to choose between the toxic
amalgam or the toxic composite,,,or just have them yanked! lol


author: Joel M. Eichen

text:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:29:07 GMT, W_B <[email]> wrote:

I thought the Plutonium teeth look very natural ......


text:
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email]> wrote in message
news:xzKff.1268$RI5.272@trndny09...

     I doubt it.  This is nothing new.  There was a beryllium-pollanium
initiator that briefly visited Nagasaki before I was born.
http://www.childrenofthemanhattanproject.org/HISTORY/fat_man.htm

Vaughn


author: Jadox

subject: diamorphine synthesis

text:
hey guys.
i'm doin an assignment and i need to find the reaction scheme for the
synthesis of diamorphine from morphine and i cant figure out what it
is.  i know it involves acetylation but im still stuck.
if anyone knows the answer or could give me a hand that would be
great.
thanx


author: Ron

subject: Re: diamorphine synthesis

text:
"Jadox" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Let us know when there are flashing blue lights outside your windows......


author: Frank Logullo

subject: Re: diamorphine synthesis

text:
"Jadox" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: hank

subject: New firmware for GPSMAP 76

text:
Garmin just posted new 4.0 firmware for the GPSMAP 76 that addresses the
   WAAS issues discussed in this group. After the update, the GPSMAP 76
locks on to the Anik #51 WAAS satellite.

Way to go, Garmin!

H.S.
S. Florida Boater


author: number 9

subject: Re: New firmware for GPSMAP 76

text:
Where did you find that?
Mine has 3.9 and Garmin reports it's upto date...

"hank" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


author: GSV Three Minds in a Can

subject: Re: New firmware for GPSMAP 76

text:
Bitstring <[email]>, from the
wonderful person hank <[email]> said

Sadly the new 60C(s)X firmware for the Sirfstar chipset does NOT fix the
problem with EGNOS reception. I thought it did - I had PRN33 locked for
a good 40 minutes, then it went away, and never came back (the handset
cycled thru 33,37,39, and failed to lock any of them).

Garmin (UK) are telling me 'all will be well when EGNOS goes into
production, it isn't a firmware problem at all', and EGNOS say 'we're
sending the right stuff, what are Garmin on about'. It =used= to work,
up to chipset firmware 2.7 or so. It still works (apparently) with non
Sirfstar Garmin handsets (eg the 60C).

So yes, 'way to go', in the other sense ..


author: lostparts

subject: Re: New firmware for GPSMAP 76

text:
"number 9" <[email]> wrote in message
news:9N0ch.8007$[email]...
http://www.garmin.com/support/agree.jsp?id=153


author: harald naestvold

subject: Re: New firmware for GPSMAP 76

text:
Thank you so much!
Ver. 4.0 like a charm

Hasrald

"lostparts" <[email]> wrote in message
news:fC1ch.35634$[email]...


author: fabket

subject: Broody eating eggs

text:
Today I caught my broody hen fiddling suspiciously with one of the eggs
she's meant to be incubating. On closer inspection I found that the egg was
broken (big hole in the side) and empty apart from some foul-smelling
blackish liquid (I gather that means it was an infertile one?).
I originally set the bird with 13 eggs, and she now has only 9 left. I
presume that she has eaten all the missing eggs.
The eggs are due to hatch in 5 days' time.
I can't see why this is happening, as I have been keeping the hen well fed
and watered, and seperated from the rest of the flock..
Has anyone else had problems with broodies eating eggs? Do they eat any eggs
which they think are infertile ?


author: Jerry D. Jones

subject: Re: Broody eating eggs

text:
Hi there, Ket,

Yes, it happens all to often but thankfully not very frequently. No, it's
not because the eggs are infertile nor is it a problem with your
management - you've done it all correctly. The problem is that the hen is an
egg-eater. All advice to the contrary, once a hen has discovered HOW to
break an egg, it's very likely that she will continue. Even worse, if she is
a member of a flock, she will teach others how to do it also. (Monkey-see,
monkey-do and chickens too.) I've tried all the methods over the years that
I've seen mentioned here and some seem effective - for a little while.
Eventually, they have all reverted back to their bad habit of breaking eggs.

If she's special to you, I would keep her separated and remove her eggs to
be given to another hen.

Cheers,

Jerry

fabket <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
was
eggs


subject: Re: Broody eating eggs

text:
Jerry D. Jones <[email]> wrote in message
news:9ej4gt$eec$[email]...
an
is
that
eggs.

Wow - I've had egg eaters before, so I must do some spy-surveillance on the
flock and find the teachers and their best pupils.
The egg eaters I have already discovered are true professionals - they
scrape the bedding out of their nestboxes.....I wondered why they were doing
it for ages, but now I have realised that they were doing it to make sure
that the freshly laid egg lands on the bare wood and cracks. Also, they
follow others into the nestboxes when they go to lay.
I will set up a seperate pen especially for the egg eaters tomorrow.

Unfortunately I can't do that, as I have no other broodies at the moment,
and no incubator either. I'll just have to take my chances with her and the
eggs, luckily she only has 4 days until they are due to hatch. She didn't
eat any today, which bodes well.
This is very exciting, as although I have obtained fertile eggs and hatched
them under a broody at home in the past, this is the first time I have ever
tried to hatch eggs laid by my own birds. I hope that at least one hatches!

Thanks for the advice Jerry, you are a mine of information!
Best wishes


author: oldmolly

subject: Re: Broody eating eggs

text:
I have cured egg eaters by blowing the insides from an egg then filling with
a mixture of curry powder and tabasco sauce.


subject: Re: Broody eating eggs

text:
oldmolly <[email]> wrote in message
news:3PdP6.24403$[email]...
with
I've cured mine before using a similar mixture, but they always go back to
egg-eating in the end.
I'm just going to isolate my egg-eaters and keep them until they die, as I
won't cull them.


subject: Re: What Creates Electron Shells?

text:
On Jun 30, 1:42 pm, "Jeckyl" <[email]> wrote:

----------
idiot
my claim is that it is **not the same**
for heavy Atoms

in a few mounts you will say that
it was founf and claimed 80 years ago
by Geramn scientists

bTW
if so who is according to you
 the copyrighter of the above claime ??

TIA
Y.Porat
----------------


author: Jeckyl

subject: Re: What Creates Electron Shells?

text:
"Y.Porat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

That's not what you said .. of course, trying to work out what you're saying
from the jumble of nonsense and misspellings in your posts is a chore .. and
usually not worth the effort.

It probably was .. going on your record for a lack of originality so far (at
least in regard to things other than nonsense)

I'm not sure what you're actually claiming.  That there are such things as
ions?


author: Bilge

subject: Re: What Creates Electron Shells?

text:
On 2007-06-30, Y.Porat <[email]> wrote:

  Then it's a good thing you have a place like usenet to post that sort
crap. If you were limited to submitting articles to journals that impose
requirements for self-consistency, logical flow and agreement with the
phenomena you claim to explain, you'd go to your grave without ever
publishing anything.

  If claiming that pisses you off, I'm willing to make that
claim now, even (or esp.) if it's blatantly false.

  I am - wanna buy the rights to it for only $10,000? I take cash,
cashier's checks and money orders.


author: Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.

text:
Ritalin Side-Effects Explained//Parents “Caught in the Middle”

If there’s one image that has been used to illustrate the Ritalin
controversy, it’s that of a line of elementary schoolchildren waiting
at
the nurse’s office at midday to receive their daily medication.  The
image has been pervasive in the media for more than a decade but has
been popping up with increasing frequency in the past year or two,
particularly on television news, talk, and magazine shows.
The context into which these troubling questions and images fall
is not always reassuring.  The use of psychotropic drugs as quick
fixes
for complicated problems has been tried before—with results that
indicate mixed benefits and with problems that accrue over years and
require a long-term perspective to appreciate.  How many American
women
(and men), for instance, took the tranquilizer Valium, feeling the
need
to blunt the edges of their jagged lives, only to discover later that
they were involved with a highly addictive drug?  And a generation
later, similar questions are being raised about the antidepressant
Prozac—can a feel-good drug really make you feel good without
exacting
a price?
The Ritalin debate, first spurred in the mid-1980’s by attacks on
the drug from the church of Scientology, has often been rancorous.
Even
as the scientific and medical establishment continues to build a
convincing case for the efficacy of Ritalin, with only minimal side
effects, media attention jangles a noisy counterpoint.  The national
support organization Children and Adults with ADD (CHADD) is often
accused of being in financial cahoots with Ciba Pharmaceuticals, the
company that manufactures Ritalin, to promote the drug.  Educators
are
faulted for preferring chemical intervention over more difficult and
creative attempts to tailor teaching to a child’s individual needs.
And
if Ritalin works to adjust the world of disordered children, can it
not
also boost the performance of “normal” children?  Increasing evidence
and anecdotes say yes.  While it was once thought that non-ADD
children
did not respond top MPH, studies by NIMH’s Judith Rapoport, M.D., and
others have determined that this is not the case.  Non-ADD children
experience the benefits of a similar sharpening of focus when they
take
Ritalin.  In fact, more and more teens are using what they call
“vitamin
R” or the “smart drug” recreationally and reporting energy bursts and
euphoria after crushing and snorting the pills they either steal from
their younger siblings or buy from children for whom they have been
prescribed.
Ritalin as a drug of abuse is a relatively recent phenomenon, and
one that is fueling the general debate over the medication.  The Drug
Enforcement Administration (DEA) recently released preliminary
findings
that bash a petition by CHADD and the American Academy of Neurology
to
ease controls on prescribing MPH; the potential for abuse is the main
reason given.  Even the United Nations has gotten into the act, in
the
form of a recent report from its International Narcotics Control
Board
that urges “all governments to exercise the utmost vigilance” to
prevent
overdiagnsosis of ADD and “medically unjustifiable” treatment with
MPH.
Caught in the middle are parents, who almost always struggle with
the decision to medicate their children, and the children themselves,
who, depending on their age, may or may not understand why the pills
they take seem to make life so much better.
About one fact there is no question.  Statistics show a dramatic
increase in the use of Ritalin in recent years.  More and more
Ritalin
is being dispensed every year in this country, and the bulk of it is
prescribed to children.
The DEA classifies methylphenidate as a Schedule II drug, meaning
that it has a currently accepted medical use by a high potential for
abuse, which may lead to SEVERE psychological or physical
dependence.
Schedule II regulations prohibit prescription refills and call-in
prescriptions and impose aggregate production quotas.  From the
mid-1980’s until 1990, the quotas rose slowly, with a couple of
downward
blips.  From 1990 until a slight leveling-off in 1996, production
quotas
climbed relentlessly.
Methylphenidate is also used to treat narcolepsy in adults and
increasingly to treat adult ADD, but by far the most common use is
for
children with ADD.  According to the “Textbook of Pharmacotherapy for
Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Disorders (1994), nearly 2 percent
of
school-age children—more than 600,000 children a year—receive
stimulant medication for ADD symptoms.  Methylpyhenidate is not the
only
drug used for ADD, but it is the most common.  Dexedrine
(dextroamphetamine) and Cylert (pemoline) have been found to confer
many
of the same benefits as Ritalin and are effective for some children
who
do not respond to Ritalin, but they have their own problems.
Amphetamines have the reputation of being highly prone to abuse and
may
be difficult to get in some area, and Cylert has been associated with
possible liver damage.
There is agreement among practitioners, among critics, and within
the DEA that there are two reasons for the steady rise in
methyplenidate
quotas: the increasing number of ADD diagnoses and the widespread
acceptance by the medical community that methylphenidate is an
effective
treatment.  It is an acceptance based on EMPIRICAL scientific data:
Reviews of the thousands of studies that have been done on the
efficacy
of methylphenidate in treating the symptoms of ADD final success
rates
averaging about 75 percent, although there is NO evidence of
continuing
relief of symptoms once the drug is discontinued.
Re: Parents Caught in the Middle Over Ritalin Side-Effects (Response)
From: [email] (Tim McNamara)
•	“Art Wholeflaffer <[email]> wrote:
To my mind, the primary question isn’t whether Ritalin is effective
(the
evidence seems to be that it is, not only for ADD but also as an
alternative therapy for depression- especially post-CVA) but whether
ADD
is being over-diagnosed.  In other words, are kids being tagged as
ADD
when in fact the real problem is the home environment, social
environment,
school environment, nutritional, relationships, needing glasses,
other
problems such as a central auditory processing disorder, etc.?
This is the part of the debate that is currently raging, I think, not
the
medical efficacy of Ritalin.  (At least, that’s the focus of the
Ritalin
controversy in my neck of the woods).
Tim


author: lien

subject: Outstanding DSP & Controls Books [sale]

text:
Greetings,

I have the following books for sale [Prices are in US dollars]:

- R. A. Monzingo, and T. W. Miller,
  Introduction To Adaptive Arrays,
  John Wileys & Sons, 1980, $79 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- V. V. Chalam,
  Adaptive Control Systems: Techniques and Applications,
  Marcel Dekker, Inc., 1987, $65 {Book Condition: New}.

- L. L. Scharf,
  Statistical Signal Processing: Detection, Estimation, and Time Series
Analysis,
  Addison-Wesley, 1991, $59 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. M. Wozencraft and I. M. Jacobs,
  Principles of Communication Engineering,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1965, $69 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- M. S. Grewal and A. P. Andrews,
  Kalman Filtering:  Theory and Practice,
  Prentice Hall, 1993, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- S. M. Kay,
  Modern Spectral Estimation: Theory & Application,
  Prentice Hall, 1988, $69 {Book Condition: New, with Diskette}.

- P. S. Maybeck,
  Stochastic Models, Estimation, and Control, Vols. I, II, III,
  Academic Press, 1979-1982, $199 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- S. Haykin,
  Neural Networks: A Comprehensive Foundation,
  Macmillan, 1994, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. Kacqrzyk,
  Multistage Fuzzy Control: A Model-Based Approach to Fuzzy Control and
Decision Making,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1997, $69 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- C. L. Nikkias, and A. P. Petropulu,
  Higher-Order Spectra Analysis: A Nonlinear Signal Processing
Framework,
  Prentice Hall, 1993, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. S. Lim,
  Two-Dimensional Signal and Image Processing,
  Prentice Hall, 1990, $65 {Book Condition: New}.

- C. T. Lin,
  Neural Fuzzy Control Systems with Structure and Parameter Learning,
  World Scientific Co., 1994, $39 {Book Condition: New}.

- A. K. Jain,
  Fundamentals of Digital Image Processing,
  Prentice Hall, 1989, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- S. Haykin, Editor,
  Blind Deconvolution,
  Prentice Hall, 1994, $59 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. C. Bezdek,
  Pattern Recognition with Fuzzy Objective Function Algorithms,
  Plenum Press, 1981, $55 {Book Condition: New, softcover}.

- S. T. Alexander,
  Adaptive Signal Processing: Theory and Applications,
  Springer-Verlag, 1986, $59 {Book Condition: New}.

- O. Omidvar and D. L. Elliott,
  Neural Systems For Control,
  Academic Press, 1997, $49 {Book Condition: New}.

- Z. Chi, H. Yan, and T. Pham,
  Fuzzy Algorithms: with Applications to Image Processing and Pattern
Recognition,
  World Scientific Co., 1996, $55 {Book Condition: New}.

- K. I. Diamantaaras and S. Y. Kung,
  Principal Component Neural Networks: Theory and Applications,
  John Wileys & Sons, 1996, $59 {Book Condition: New}.

- Leon W. Couch II,
  Digital and Analog Communcation Systems, 4th Edition,
  Macmillan, 1993, $59 {Book Condition: New}.

- L. Rabiner and B. Juang,
  Fundamentals of Speech Recognition,
  Prentice Hall, 1993, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- Y D. Landau,
  Adaptive Control: The Model Reference Approach,
  Marcel Dekker, 1979, $79 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- S. Glisic and B. Vucetic,
  Spread Spectrum CDMA Systems for Wireless Communications,
  Artech House Publishers, 1997, $89 {Book Condition: New}.

- S. Roman,
  Coding and Information Theory,
  Springer Verlag, 1992, $42 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. Schurmann,
  Pattern Classification: A Unified View of Statistical and Neural
Approaches,
  Wiley-Interscience, 1996, $64 {Book Condition: New}.

- T. Terano, K. Asai, and M. Sugeno,
  Fuzzy Systems Theory and Its Applications,
  Academic Press, 1992, $49 {Book Condition: New}.

- D. E. Kirk,
  Optimal Control Theory: An Introduction,
  Prentice Hall, 1970, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. C. Bezdek and S. K. Pal, Eds.,
  Fuzzy Models for Pattern Recognition: Methods That Search for
Structures in Data,
  The IEEE Press, 1992, $74 {Book Condition: New}.

- H. W. Sorenson, Ed.,
  Kalman Filtering: Theory and Application,
  The IEEE Press, 1985, $49 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- E. Biglieri and M. Luise, Eds.,
  Signal Processing in Telecommunications,
  Springer Verlag, 1996, $67 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- R. R. Yager and D. P. Filev,
  Essentials of Fuzzy Modeling and Control,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1994, $55 {Book Condition: New}.

- M. N. M. van Lieshout,
  Stochastic Geometry Models in Image Analysis and Spatial Statistics,
  Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, 1991, $39 {Book Condition: New,
softcover}.

- N. K. Sinha and B. Kuszta,
  Modeling and Identification of Dynamic Systems,
  Van Nostrand Reinhold Co., 1983, $59 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- E. L. Hall,
  Computer Image Processing and Recognition,
  Academic Press, 1979, $39 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- J. Durkin,
  Expert Systems: Design and Development,
  Prentice Hall, 1994, $72 {Book Condition: New}.

- K. S. Narendra, R. Ortega, and P. Dorato, Eds.,
  Advances in Adaptive Control,
  The IEEE Press, 1991, $79 {Book Condition: New}.

- M. M. Gupta, Ed.,
  Adaptive Methods for Control System Design,
  The IEEE Press, 1986, $69 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- S. V. Vaseghi,
  Advanced Signal Processing and Digital Noise Reduction
  John Wiley & Sons & Teubner, 1996, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. R. Treichler, C. R. Johnson, Jr., and M. G. Larimore,
  Theory and Design of Adaptive Filters,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1987, $55 {Book Condition: New}.

- B. Boashash, E. J. Powers, and A. M. Zoubir, Eds.,
  Higher-Order Statistical Signal Processing,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1995, $54 {Book Condition: New}.

- J. V. Candy,
  Signal Processing: The Model-Based Approach,
  McGraw-Hill, 1986, $42 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- N. B. Karayiannis and A. N. Venetsanopoulos,
  Artificial Neural Networks: Learning Algorithms, Performance
Evaluation, and Applications,
  Kluwer Academic Pub., 1993, $89 {Book Condition: New}.

- A. Kandel and G. Langholz,
  Fuzzy Control Systems,
  CRC Press, 1994, $89 {Book Condition: New}.

- P. Eykhoff,
  System Identification: Parameter and State Estimation,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1974, $75 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- G. N. Saridis,
  Self-Organizing Control of Stochastic Systems,
  Marcel Dekker, 1977, $79 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- K. S. Narendra and R. V. Monopoli, Eds.,
  Applications of Adaptive Control,
  Academic Press, 1980, $59 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- P. K. Sinha,
  Multivariable Control: An Introduction
  Marcel Dekker, 1984, $59 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- Chi-Tsong Chen,
  Linear System Theory and Design,
  Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1984, $69 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- G. Deco and D. Obradovic,
  An Information-Theoretic Approach to Neural Computing,
  Springer Verlag, 1996, $49 {Book Condition: New}.

- T. Miller III, R. S. Sutton, and P. J. Werbos,
  Neural Networks for Control,
  The MIT Press, 1990, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- H. Nguyen, M. Sugeno, R. Tong, and R. R. Yager, Eds.,
  Theoretical Aspects of Fuzzy Control,
  John Wiley & Sons, 1995, $59 {Book Condition: New}.

- D. T. Pham and X. Liu,
  Neural Networks for Identification, Prediction and Control,
  Springer Veralg, 1995, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- R. F. Stengel,
  Stochastic Optimal Control: Theory and Application,
  John Wiley & Sons, $59 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- D. Kendrick,
  Stochastic Control For Economic Models,
  McGraw-Hill, 1981, $49 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- R. G. Jacquot,
  Modern Digital Control Systems,
  Marcel Dekker, 1981, $37 {Book Condition: Excellent}.

- R. Isermann, K. H. Lachmann. and D. Matko,
  Adaptive Control Systems,
  Prentice Hall, $42 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- K. J. Astrom,
  Introduction to Stochastic Control Theory,
  Academic Press, 1979, $69 {Book Condition: New}.

- E. A. Walker,
  Introduction to Abstract Algebra,
  Random House Inc., 1987, $35 {Book Condition: Almost New}.

- S. D. Stearns and R. A. David,
  Signal Processing Algorithms in Fortran and C,
  Prentice Hall, 1993, $56 {Book Condition: New}.

- M. A. Weiss,
  Data Structures and Algorithm Analysis in C,
  The Benjamin/Cummings Pub. Co., 1993, $53 {Book Condition: New}.

<>*!*<>


author: Green Xenon [Radium

subject: Ultrasound for virtual reality? How does this work?

text:
Hi:

How does ultrasound do this?

Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality :

ï¿½On April 7, 2005, Sony went public with the information that they had
filed for and received a patent for the idea of the non-invasive beaming
of different frequencies and patterns of ultrasonic waves directly into
the brain to recreate all five senses.[2] There has been research to
show that this is possible.ï¿½

Quotes from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article378077.ece :

ï¿½The patent has few details, describing only a device that would fire
pulses of ultrasound at the head to modify the firing patterns of
neurons in targeted parts of the brain.ï¿½

This is so interesting. Please donï¿½t feel insulted by the cross-posts. I
only posted to relevant NGs.

No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.

I am so interested in how ultrasound can ï¿½recreate all five sensesï¿½. Yet
I am also extremely frustrated because I canï¿½t find any additional
information on this topic.

Thanks,

Radium


author: Androcles

subject: Re: Ultrasound for virtual reality? How does this work?

text:
"Green Xenon [Radium]" <[email]> wrote in message
news:46f89e10$0$32495$[email]...
: Hi:
:
: How does ultrasound do this?
:
: Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality :
:
: ï¿½On April 7, 2005, Sony went public with the information that they had
: filed for and received a patent for the idea of the non-invasive beaming
: of different frequencies and patterns of ultrasonic waves directly into
: the brain to recreate all five senses.[2] There has been research to
: show that this is possible.ï¿½
:
: Quotes from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article378077.ece :
:
: ï¿½The patent has few details, describing only a device that would fire
: pulses of ultrasound at the head to modify the firing patterns of
: neurons in targeted parts of the brain.ï¿½
:
: This is so interesting. Please donï¿½t feel insulted by the cross-posts. I
: only posted to relevant NGs.
:
: No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
: jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
: really interested in this.
:
: I am so interested in how ultrasound can ï¿½recreate all five sensesï¿½. Yet
: I am also extremely frustrated because I canï¿½t find any additional
: information on this topic.
:
:
: Thanks,
:
: Radium

Even the blind, deaf, tactileless, tongueless and odourless know
when they are hot or cold.  That's more than five senses; maintaining
body temperature is the first requirement for survival of the individual.
Taste and smell are linked, both require the presence of a molecule
of the substance being tasted or smelt and are essentially the same sense.
As a laboratory subject I can vouch for being unable to "remember" taste,
smell or touch, but I can remember visual scenes and music. Yet I do
have the memory of the taste of beef or ice cream or pickled onions
so that I recognise them when I taste them. I just cannot recall that
taste in their absence.
If there is some way in which a mechanical vibration of the neurons
and/or synapses can trigger memory of past tastes, colours, audio
frequencies or other sensations then I don't know how it works but
would not rule out the possibility of it doing so, although I'd expect
to find it hallucinatory in its nature and therefore undesirable.


author: Bob Masta

text:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:45:27 -0700, "Green Xenon [Radium]"
<[email]> wrote:

Sounds to me like horse-puckey!  (I guess that accounts for the
senses of hearing and olfaction, at a minimum... <g>)

Even if we suppose that their ultrasound system can target
the brain at very fine resolution, and that it can stimulate any
neurons it focuses on, that's a *looong* way from having a
useful system.  My suspicion is that they are simply able to
produce the same sort of random sensations that neurosurgeons
elicit by direct contact or stimulation during neurosurgery.
If they aim for the visual cortex, they get visual sensations,
auditory from the auditory cortex, and so on.  If the stimulation
apparatus is really nailed down tight to the subject's head,
they may even be fairly repeatable distinct sensations, such
as "smell of violets" or "moving bar of red light".  But they won't
be the same for the next subject, nor even the same subject
on another day unless the setup can be reattached exactly the
same.  That's partly due to the limits of trying to locate any
given brain region by "stereotaxis" (measurements relative to
known landmarks on the skull or whatever), and partly due to
the fact that brains are all different at fine enough detail (because
they have been shaped by different experiences as well as
heredity).

So to use this in any practical way would involve some sort of
semi-permanent attachment to the subject, followed by a
*looong* learning period of tweaking the controls, and mapping
out the response regions.  In essence, it would be a larger-scale
version of what cochlear prosthesis recipients have to go through
to eventually achieve what can be called "hearing".   The device
can be adjusted to adapt somewhat to the subject, but the
subject has to do a large amount of learning to interpret the
output of the device.

Best regards,

Bob Masta

            D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
           www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
    Science with your sound card!


author: Randy Poe

text:
Crossposting trimmed somewhat

On Sep 25, 1:45 am, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <[email]>
wrote:

Few details. Exactly.
"New Scientist says in its Saturday issue that it was denied an
interview with the unnamed inventor..."

Hmmm. The inventor of this brilliant idea doesn't admit
to having a name, and they won't let the press talk to
the supposed inventor.

"Elizabeth Boukis, the Sony Electronics spokeswoman, said
that the work was a "prophetic invention" and no experiments
at all had been performed on it. 'It was based on an inspiration
that this may someday be the direction that technology will
take us,' she told the magazine."

Hmm. They don't have any idea how it would be possible.
They just want to get the royalties if anyone ever does
figure out a way to do it.

That would be because there isn't any. Somebody unnamed
had a science-fiction idea without details, and Sony management
decided to pay to file a patent on it.

I can think of only one plausible technology that might have
prompted these speculations. There's something called
"time reversal" in signal processing. It has nothing to do with
making time run backward. The name has to do with the
fact that the technique involves reversing the time order
of a recorded signal.

When coherent waves (such as ultrasound) hit a body
with a complicated structure, they experience a lot
of scattering and the signal becomes severely
decoherent. By measuring the scattering and using
time-reversal techniques, you can compensate for
that scattering in such a way that you could cause
the sound wave to come to a sharp focus at any
desired point inside the body. Such a technique has been
successfully applied to noninvasive destruction of kidney
stones.

I suspect somebody asked "if you apply time reversal
techniques to focus ultrasound on specific neurons,
can you stimulate them to fire?" And probably somebody
found the answer was "yes".

                - Randy


author: Benj

text:
Randy Poe wrote:

Sorry "Radium" but your spamming stupid posts are well known here.
While this one is considerably improved over most, why would you have
the chutzpa to think that we should fall all over ourselves because
YOU are "really interested" in something.  How about you CONTRIBUTE
something "interesting" here instead?  Just who are you to tell ME to
be "reasonable"?

I dunno. Seemed to have worked with the Laser!