subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
John Jensen wrote:

look...person, nuclear fallout is defined as
the dust particles that slowly decend [fall]
to the ground after *things* are blown _up_ in
a nuclear explosion.

the fear of nuclear fallout is the fear of dust
from exploded *cities* that travel into the
jet stream and are carried all over the planet,
and then there are the so-called "nuclear winter" scenarios.

telling me there is residual radioactivity
at a test site is just plain irrelevant.
now you're just being annoying.

look ...seemingly very idiotic person,
*if* such statistics have been amassed,
then you can read them in a book somewhere
far and wide from a test site.

and if not, then all of your statements
will forever remain conjectural.

if yer wanna -pretend- to be an idiot,
you're well on your way to being convincing.

if you really are an idiot, i'll probably
have difficulty convincing -you- that you are....an idiot.

one last time;

"nuclear fallout" is *not* just
residual radiactivity from
a bomb blast.

when big buildings are blown up, like all
that good dust from the Trade Center Towers,
remember? yeah, i realize that was nearly
a month ago, and you've probably forgotten
that, but remember all that dust? well
if all that dust had been generated *in* a
nuclear explosion of that same building,
and that, in the extreme magnitude of
a megaton nuclear explosion, it would
have been carried up into the upper atmosphere
and widely dispersed via the jet stream
and other wind currents.

*that* is what is commonly considered a "fallout threat"

*not* residual radioactivity at a desert test site.

now if you'll excuse me,
i have to go eat my U238 Toasty-Os.


author: Timothy Sutter

subject: Re: end of the rule of law?

text:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

if what you want is for me to keep talking to you,

and that's quite obviously what you want,

you go about these things all wrong.


subject: Re: end of the rule of law?

text:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

i'm gone again.

it's all on record.

your arguments are meaningless.

no, I won't be "going there" because i don't
waste considerable amounts of time
with midgets like yourself.

feel free to rant and rave, but I
don't respond to "Shane Shane, come back"

bye.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

Boy, I hate to intrude on this rancorous discussion, but
you both are just talking around each other - with some
things right and some wrong.

Ok, let me respond just to the above:

1. John Wayne had a cancerous lung removed in 1963 - later
died of lung and stomach cancer. As he didn't die until
1979 - cigarette smoking no doubt played a much larger role
than any exposure at a test site.

2. Of course there is residual radiation at test sites.
However, the majority of fission products that fall at a
test site are high dose and short lived. So, "soon" after
there is minimal radiation risk.

3. The radiation risk of nuclear fallout comes from:

a. Early fallout - High dose rate fission products. These
decay soon - the 7/10 rule applies here. So, within 2
weeks, the hourly dose rate will be 1,000 times less that
it was 1 hour after the fallout stopped falling.

The danger of early fallout can extend hundreds of miles
downwind from a nuclear explosion. This is the most
immediate concern from nuclear war - the threat that will
kill additional millions, cause millions to die by
pestilence, wounds, etc.

b. Delayed fallout - From certain long lived elements
[fission products such as Strontium and Cesium] that can be
ingested and replace similar elements in the body. As
radioactive particle emitters, they can cause serious
problems in the body. [The effect is the same as one gets
from ingesting (particularly breathing) particles from
mining, radon, etc.

4. Fallout is the result of "anything" - dust, sand,
buildings, trees, etc. - sucked into the radioactive cloud,
upon which fission products condense and then "fallout" to
the ground.

As the first A-bomb test was conducted in the desert, the
early fallout worries certainly involved "sand" and not
"buildings". The Marshall Islanders exposed were not
exposed from "buildings" at the test site, but from coral -
vaporized and sucked in. The reference given below even has
pictures of "sand" being sucked into a nuclear cloud.

5. "Delayed fallout" is the result of suspension of
particles in the atmosphere. It is a result of certain
nuclear explosions [surface bursts particularly]. Some
nuclear war scenarios suggest nuking cities might be one
means to achieve "nuclear winter". The threat here is not
just radiation, but blocking the sun, etc. A "nuclear
winter" would severely decrease the survival possibilities
of those who survived the effects of blast, fire, early
fallout.

You might check the standard reference, _The Effects of
Nuclear Weapons_, Chapter IX for detailed and authoritative
information on fallout.


subject: I do not argue with swampgas

text:
names I can put up with. big deal.

but I won't be the sounding board
for the setting forth of various
and sundry nonsensical views about religion.

so, let loose with all the names,
probably more reflective of the
issuer than the target, usually at any rate,

but I see no good reason to lift the issuer's
"arguments" [read; lax scholarship and outright nonsense]
to the level of reasonableness by carrying on any sort of
discussion with said party, who's primary
and best bet is calling me names.

"that's why i won't do two shows
a night anymore, I just won't do it"

so, when presented with something with even a bare
modicum of merit, I'm more than happy to go after it,

but I do not argue with swampgas.

i've gotta a very important bag
of popcorn that needs my attention.


author: Glenn Christian Mystic

subject: Re: end of the rule of law?

text:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:35:26 -0400, Timothy Sutter
<[email]> wrote:

Sigh, I guess you favor the Talibon, and Bin Ladon getting away with
what they did to the World Trade Center. As you refuse to declare one
way or the other.

I can see why you are frightful of admitting what would be a very
unpopular point of veiw at this time.

Your lack of an answer concerning this says A LOT

COWARD


subject: Re: end of the rule of law?

text:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:30:35 -0400, Timothy Sutter
<[email]> wrote:

Not surprising, coward (Rev.21:8) God has your number.

Sure is !

You hope.

Goliath, I have five smooth stones ready should you decide to take on
the battle.

RUN COWARD RUN !!!

See ya later :-)

Glenn (Christian Mystic)
matthew25-jesusjudgment.cityslide.com


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
[email] wrote:

no, what I have stated is correct.

a desert doesn't pose a tremendous fallout risk
whereas a city with many large building does.
that was what I said, and that hasn't changed.


subject: waste matter

text:
just fill up a couple of C-40 transports
with septic tank waste and drop it on Kabul.

see, *that* would hurt them.
and you figure, Kabul has no one but your targets.
bombs they like, love even.

septic waste, now that would be dirty pool.
you probably wouldn't understand.

but look, just cuz *I* can still think clearly, is not wrong.

you can kiss my arse if you think otherwise.


subject: Re: I do not argue with swampgas

text:
A little leaven leavens the whole loaf.... Thanks for not challenging
the "Swampgas" for by doing so you let the "swampgas" win out.

Silence lead to Nazi's success

Thanx

COWARD

Glenn (Christian Mystic)
matthew25-jesusjudgment.cityslide.com

On Tue, 02 Oct 2001 23:20:09 -0400, Timothy Sutter
<[email]> wrote:


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
In article <[email]>,
[email] says...

Well, then you are an idiot.

*Plonk*


subject: Goldfinger

text:
see, in the book "Goldfinger" by Ian Flemming

he and jay bondrock are having a scuffle
up in a plane and, i think, someone
has a gun, and it fires.

it shoots out a window, and the cabin depressurizes
immediately and Goldfinger gets sucked out the plane.

that's probably one reason
they eschew carring guns
on airplanes.

cuz of the pressurized cabins.


subject: Re: I do not argue with swampgas

text:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

yes, *you* are "swampgas"
good you realize this and can
show all the nice people that
you know who and what you are.

and then this moron likens himself to a Nazi.

and we wonder, why should *I* waste my energy
"challenging" this moron, when he completes
his own character assessment for me.

trouble is, unlike the Nazis,
*you* pose no threat to me at all.

unlike the Nazis,
*you* pose no threat to anyone.

if you did, i'd be happy enough to grind
your little pin-head into the dirt.

as it stands, i've allowed you
more than you'll ever be worth.

there, now that we've cleared that up,

you can go back to doing
whatever it is that you do.

nothing of which, poses any credible
threat to me or anyone else.


author: John Jensen

subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
I must concur.
Why argue rads when what is important is the effect on lives?
Why say lives are irrelevant?

This reminds me of listening in on a arguement between a fellow who had
spent years studying the impact of radiation, and a hyper teen who used
every denial and every logical fallacy he could find, because nothing
mattered except thinking he won the arguement.

Moggin might disagree, but sometimes you just have to leave people to their
own stupidity, like: what could alt.actor.dustin-hoffman, or an
alt.religion, possibly have to do with this discussion? I think Timothy is
just enamoured with his own verbage.

<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: information laundering

text:
this is a thing akin to money laundering.

you take "scuttlebutt" whisper it
into the ears of some news reporter,

and when it comes back to you
from them, it is now a "fact"

fact laundering, your information that
was scuttlebutt has been laundered
and is now "fact"

more hearsay, from the rumor mills, posing as fact.

people need to distinguish the
difference between hearsay
and actual fact.

ask yourself what you know and what is
pure second hand hearsay repetition.


author: Scott Moore

subject: Re: Goldfinger

text:
And this movie was pointed out recently as an example of
one of the myths about airplane depress events.

Timothy Sutter wrote:


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
John Jensen wrote:

I'm right, you're wrong and that
always seems to bother you people.

boo hoo hoo.


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
John Jensen wrote:

this is the part i always like best.

I'm right so I have some sort of problem.


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
In article <UjRw7.2125$[email]>,
[email] says...

Yes, my  whole fiber rebels against doing that. I still
think people are rational and logical. I tried to cure his
ignorance, but I just don't have the energy to convert his
kind of sinner - "There is  no sin save stupidity" - Oscar
Wilde.


subject: return to normalcy

text:
see, what i think you should do is this;

go to MacDonalds, and order
a hamburger and french fries
and a coke,

and sit down inside the restaurant and eat
your hamburger with a knife and fork
that you brought from home.

and the fries too.

it's not necessary to bring
stemware for the Coke.


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:56:45 -0400, Timothy Sutter
<[email]> wrote:

Yeah, we should all know by now that Timmy is the All Knowing,
Almighty Himself.

Wow ! And "He" has a heart, too !

Glenn (Christian Mystic)
matthew25-jesusjudgment.cityslide.com


subject: Re: showing the instruments

text:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:25:39 GMT, <[email]> wrote:

That is because you aren't a coward, now for Timmy IT IS EASY !!!


author: Tang Huyen

subject: Universalising (was Re: God)

text:
tara wrote:

If you got that reaction, then you got that reaction. Others
may get different reactions when they give it all up, for real,
not expecting or looking for anything at all.

Some people get a sense of calm, peace, harmony,
coherence, flowingness, fluidity, purely in the abstract,
aesthetic, moral, platonic sense, without any human or
social dimension to it. Some people may feel disposed to
quiet, private aesthetic, moral contemplation without any
affective component to it. Jainism and Buddhism accept
that there are awakeneds who don't teach -- they're called
Individual Awakeneds (pratyeka-buddha or some such,
the spelling differs, so does the meaning).

All proportions being kept, Augustine is very presumptuous
in immediately universalising whatever he feels and thinks
as universally valid. He projects his experience over the
entire universe and the entire humanity.

In Buddhism, the Great Vehicle is a revolt against the old
Elders, who generally don't give much emphasis to the
gushy kind of universal compassion that the Great
Vehiclists advocate. I accept the Elders as correct: some
people upon awakening don't care a whit about helping
others get to the same state. That doesn't mean that they
are morally skewed or whatever, it just means that upon
awakening, they don't care a whit about helping others get
to the same state. The Buddha himself says that upon
awakening one has nothing further to do, and that can be
literally true, in that if one feels so inclined, one needs not
do anything thereafter for anybody else. The Buddha
himself upon awakening reflects on what to do, feels that
he prefers to rest in peace and quiet, and rests in peace
and quiet, until somebody (God Brahma) comes to
beseech him to teach. If he remained in peace and quiet
for the remainder of his life, his awakening would not
suffer in the least. He decides to help others get to the
same state, and his awakening does not improve in the
least.

Tang Huyen


author: Sevenhundred Elves

subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
On 6 Feb 2005 09:10:37 -0800,
[email] <[email]> wrote:

I'm no Buddhist, but I guess that the way to Buddhist awakening would
have to start with developing compassion, like it did with the Buddha.

S.


author: Raan

subject: Re: Universalising (was Re: God)

text:
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

R.D.Laing describes schizophrenia as a group phenomena, such that the
individual schizophrenic is actually an expression of the group malady.  If
a member of the group, most often a family, were to free themselves from the
effect of the group illness, they would nevertheless feel the repercussions
of it.  Remaining in the situation they would tend to help to remedy it and
to try to free others.  That would be a natural psychological occurrence not
prompted by any morality or ethic, but by the dynamics of the situation.  So
it is with the Bodhisattva.  Having freed himself from the effects of
illusion he would nonetheless experience the delusory effects of those
surrounding him who remain in ignorance and suffering, and his natural
inclination would be to remedy the situation, even without necessarily
consciously deciding to do so.  His own awakening may actually deteriorate
therefore.


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
Sevenhundred Elves wrote:

Buddha.

Yeah, that sounds quite plausible to me.  But
I don't know if it's obvious, or even the general
consensus.  So it's interesting to explore.  It
could be, for instance, that awakening in at
least some people can come from a more or less
intellectual and more or less isolated realization
of the limitations of language, the ephemeral
nature of being, and so on, leading to a mind
that stands on nothing and stops on nothing
but that is not unusually compassionate.  Or
perhaps that's impossible, or perhaps such a
mind comes to compassion inevitably shortly
thereafter.  I dunno!

DC


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
Lee Dillion wrote:
an
for
judgments
orientation,
as
an

That's definitely happened!  And you're right it's
a most valuable experience.  In general I like
(maybe too much) finding out that I was wrong
about something, because then I feel less wrong...  *8)

DC


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
Evelyn Ruut wrote:
my
anything
suddenly start

"the
size" (if
happen
deal.
but I
anythings
self
it has
in
kindness
either
kind and

Thanks much for the reply!  Maybe partly it
depends on whether enlightenment or kindness
are seen as primary.  Is kindness interesting
only as it relates to awakening, or is awakening
most interesting as it relates to kindness?
I'm not sure I have enough evidence yet to
know which question I'm more concerned with.  *8)

I remember one thing that I liked in Zen
Mind, Beginner's Mind (I think it was) was
the general "enlightenment is no big deal;
you might get it, you might not" attitude.
(Does that make me Soto?)

DC


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
Stumper wrote:

 When you do meet tao you will feel in every aspect of your life not
just here in your playground that you hide from reality in - remember
you were warned. Pretending and playing will do little to stop the
flood waters. I think a little respect is in order for those around you
and perhaps do as i said and research Te and what happens to those that
don't live by its rules. There is no escape.


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
Stumper wrote:

Thank you!  I have no objection to that
view of the matter.  I probably share it,
at least sometimes.  *8)

I might suggest that you're overgeneralizing
a bit, from the attitudes and actions of a
few people active on APT right now, to the
"Taoists of Usenet" in general, to "the core
of Taoism".  I suspect the majority of
people who have historically identified
as "Taoist" might be surprised.  *8)  Not
that I have any good evidence for this.

(Not to say that the current crop of APTers
are bad or wrong; but you might not want
to assume that they're representative...)

Not to drift off topic or anything!  *8)

DC


author: Takuji Seiji

subject: Re: Universalising (was Re: God)

text:
Raan wrote:

In the absence of identification
    such could not take place


author: Stumper

subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
[email] wrote:

"I dunno!"
The immortal words of the wise.

My hunch is that,
the Buddha got compassionate
after getting enlightenment.
It is also probable that
if he was not going to get compassionate,
he was not going to get enlightenment.

Mahayana Buddhists need to be compassionate
just to begin to walk the path to enlightenment.
No compassion, no faith.
No faith, no enlightenment.

But, who cares about my opinions
on these matters anyway.
Time to parrot Zen masters.

~Stumper.


author: Keynes

subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
On 7 Feb 2005 03:45:16 -0800, [email] wrote:

Intellectual understanding is not awakening.
The trick is to overcome the intellect.


author: Evelyn Ruut

subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

As the previous poster pointed out, the buddha himself felt compassion first
and foremost, before he ever began on his spiritual journey towards
enlightenment.   Just my opinion, of course, but I feel it is that
compassion for living beings that must be felt before one can go anywhere
with a spiritual path.


author: Lee Dillion

subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
[email] wrote:

LOL.  Something about that makes sense.


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
[email] wrote:

What would be more instructive
about the illusion of ego
than flame wars on the Usenet?

If you cannot depend on Zen masters,
you can rely on people's viciousness.

~Stumper.


subject: Re: Universalising (was Re: God)

text:
"Takuji Seiji" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
If
the
repercussions
and
not
So
deteriorate

Yes, like a phantom among zombies, unmoved and moving.


author: Ch'an Fu

subject: Re: Universalising (was Re: God)

text:
Takuji Seiji wrote:

Most excellent, squeegie, most excellent.

Stepping on chewing gum happens as a
result of following where others walk.

"Truth is a pathless land" --JK


subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
"Keynes" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Yours? Done! Am I awake yet? lol


author: Julian Love God

subject: Re: Irony (was Re: Universalising)

text:
Keynes wrote:

Noh trick...

Long and painful austerities.

:(     :(     :(


subject: Viciousness (was Re: Irony)

text:
Ch'an Fu wrote:

I have learnt a lot from Usenet viciousness.

Deed and its return apply: the first victims of
viciousness is its authors. Its intended
recipients may or may not suffer, but its
authors inevitably do. The more vicious they
are, the more they wreck themselves, though
it may take years before its effects show up.
But by the time they show up, they are
irreversible. Gender and age are no barrier.
By the way one doesn't need to wait until
future lives to see its returns, which are more
than obvious on some people.

Viciousness gives its intended recipients a
great opportunity to deal with hostility with
some cushion, for it is carried only by mere
words on the screen and does not physically
slap its intended recipients in the face.

As to Zen masters and their effectiveness in
teaching their students, I am by no means
impressed with the people on these boards
who are their students. Barbara O'Brien
(MahaBarbara), Toshu (ryugin, John
Neatrour, NoMatterNoMind), Xin, etc. hardly
show any benefit from years and decades of
training under presumably credentialed
teachers. Sean White and Lazarhat do.

Tang Huyen


author: Mike Biggins

subject: Re: Viciousness (was Re: Irony)

text:
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Excuse me!

While Sean White may be considered as a worthwhile student I hardly consider
him to be worthy of being a teacher.

A true self opinionated asshole maybe.
But definately not a teacher.

His fuck up with Kensho. Not to mention his sidekick Gilet. (sp). It has
been a long time and water flows.

Love and Light
Mike.


author: Scout

subject: Re: Thank you United States - the message the socialists don't want you to hear

text:
"Steve Koterski" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Which can be seen in the shortness, brevity and lack of detail concerning
the 3rd branch of the federal government in the US Constitution. It was NOT
given the consideration it was due, and I believe that had they done so,
many of the ills implimented by and perpetuated by the judical branch may
have been eliminated or reduced.


author: Miss Liberty

text:
"Scout" <[email]>  wrote :

If you look at when these changes happened, most of it coincides
with the advent of Communism in the 20th century and takes place
over that period since.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty one
percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty
nine." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Democracy is the road to socialism." - Karl Marx

"For it is very clear that in fundamental theory socialism and
democracy are almost if not quite the one and the same. They both
rest at bottom on the absolute right of the community to
determine its own destiny and that of its members." - Woodrow
Wilson

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of
the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist
nation without ever knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas,
Socialist Party presidential candidate 1936-68, Cofounder of the
American Civil Liberties Union

Three months before his 1959 visit to the U.S., Khruschev, then
ruthless dictator of International Communism stated:  "We can't
expect the American people to jump from Capitalism to Communism,
but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small
doses of Socialism UNTIL they awaken one day to find they HAVE
COMMUNISM."

"There is no such thing as a liberal...There hasn't been for a
long, long time. I never use the word and you shouldn't either -
nobody should. 'Liberal' is what socialists call themselves when
they don't want you to understand that they plan to take away
your rights, your property, and eventually your life." --
Alexander Hope

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his
needs." - Karl Marx

"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except
in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism
proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is
merely the difference between murder and suicide." -- Ayn Rand,
from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons"


text:
"Miss Liberty" <[email]> wrote in message
news:Xns97118DC2632BADontMsLibertyfreedom@216.196.97.142...

I have to disagree, the courts back to the founding of this nation have
tended to ignore or fail to enforce the Constitution. We have just seen more
of it in recent years, but the incidents are there back through history.


author: John S. Wilkins

subject: Re: What do Biologists think of Ontology?

text:
troll <[email]> wrote:

This question is a bit vague. I suspect you think metaphysics is
something to do with religious absolutes, which is not always the case;
even not often the case. Ontology is, in effect the very general kinds
of things that are required if a specific field or theory is to be true.
So the ontology of theism includes both a deity/divine realm, and a
created independent realm of the physical.

Biology has ontologies simply because everything has ontologies (the
ontology of the Buffyverse includes undead beings and souls, for
example). If you are talking about biological kinds of things - species,
organisms, genes, ecosystems - these things are the ontology of
biological talk.

Paleontology simply means "old things"; it is contrasted with neontology
("new things") in biology.

A recent, and I think unhappy, development is the creation of computer
based "ontologies" for things like genes and biodiversity (part of the
Ontology Project); in fact these are database designs only and have no
deeper significance, despite the rather overblown claims of the
proponents. I no more think these are ontologies than I think Drupal has
a taxonomy.


author: Ron O

text:
On Oct 13, 9:57ï¿½pm, [email] (John S. Wilkins) wrote:

Are you talking about the gene ontology projects?  Genes have
ontologies.  What function does the gene have?  What functional
pathways is the gene involved in?  What functional parts are present
in the gene sequence?  Where is the gene in the genome?  What are the
possible homologous genes in other species?  What do various mutations
of the gene do to gene function?  Genes even have their undead
counterparts of the Buffyverse (pseudogenes).

Ron Okimoto


author: John Harshman

text:
John S. Wilkins wrote:

What part of "troll" is unclear to you?


text:
Ron O <[email]> wrote:

Trouble is that Gene Ontologies are set up on the basis of initial
sequence of discovery, and subsequent discoveries are then shoehorned
into the "ontology". If you happen to discover a gene in one context,
say, vision, and then find it has a much bigger role in neural
signalling, that latter function has to parasitise the existing
"ontology".

This is what comes of not distinguishing between the actual ontology of
a field (that is, the best set of categories for representing the data
and models at the present time) from the record keeping.


author: Burkhard

text:
On 14 Oct, 12:37, Ron O <[email]> wrote:

Here is a is a critical  analysis of GO  from a philosophical
perspective (by someone who has worked quite a lot in computer based
ontologies in the emdical field, but who is a philosopher by trade,
Barry Smith)

http://ontology.buffalo.edu/medo/Gene_Ontology.pdf

My guess is that parts of this are similar to John's issues (they
certainly are mine) - it is so to speak  a lot of "onto", and hardly
any  "logy" - that is they are more like bad dictionaries rewritten in
description logic than a systematic analysis of the entities and their
relations that the biological domain  assumes.


text:
On Oct 14, 10:27ï¿½pm, [email] (John S. Wilkins) wrote:

Sounds like a limitation of the system not of the concept.  I've gone
to multiple gene ontology database talks and the goal is to provide
all the information known about that gene in an accessable format.
That is a pretty daunting goal.

Ron Okimoto


text:
Burkhard <[email]> wrote:

Barry is a leading booster of the GO. His critique here is pretty light:
more in the line of some advice.

And it's not the case that he is suggesting that the GO is *not* an
ontology. He has elsewhere (in my hearing, at any rate) tried to argue
that we can both impose ontological commitments onto the data (the
cell-function-process ontology) and derive ontologies from it.

My major objection is that this is pretty much the Universal Language
Project revived. It failed in the 16th and 17th centuries, and it will
fail now, for a simple reason: the categories of any given time and
place are not constraints on the way the world is, and if you think the
world is the way you think, you think wrong.


text:
On Oct 14, 7:17ï¿½am, Burkhard <[email]> wrote:

I can't seem to get the pdf to come up.

What kind of logy do you expect when your knowledge is limited?  If
they knew more they would put more into the gene ontologies.  When all
you know is that parts of the sequence are similar to a certain family
of ATPase that is all you can put down.  The ATPase might transport
peptides or sugar molecules, but if you don't know that you can't put
it in and you don't know what pathway to put it in.

Ron Okimoto


text:
On 15 Oct, 04:48, [email] (John S. Wilkins) wrote:
Sounds more like something I would say :o). I don't  think Barry would
see it as anything more than a heuristic device, and embraces a
revisionist approach to ontology formulation where language looses any
time there are sound reasons from ontological theort (and he has been
scathing at times about GO, though I could not find any stronger
articles0


text:
On 15 Oct, 12:01, Ron O <[email]> wrote:

It is not the amount of information (quite on the contrary) but the
lack of formal structure that is imposed on the data, the abstractness
(and consistency) of higher level categories etc. A similar sort of
criticism you have with the cvC approach - lots of people writing down
(in a logic with seriously limited expressive power to boot)
"everything I know about the world" does not give you an ontology in
any meaningful sense of the world - Clinton, France, the "thirty
year's war" and "All tomorrow's parties" don't belong in the same
ontological category just because they can be the NP in some
sentences .


text:
On Oct 15, 6:58ï¿½am, Burkhard <[email]> wrote:

Can you be specific.  the guys responsible for placing information
into the gene ontologies have to be trained and pass review.  They are
pretty specific in what they put where.  It has to all be retrievable
in some reasonable way.

Ron Okimoto


text:
On 15 Oct, 23:04, Ron O <[email]> wrote:

The article I cited has several examples, if you can't open the pdf,
the full reference is:
Anand Kumar and Barry Smith, ï¿½The Unified Medical Language System and
the Gene Ontology: Some Critical Reflectionsï¿½, in A. Gï¿½nter, R. Kruse
and B. Neumann (eds.), KI 2003: Advances in Artificial Intelligence
(Lecture Notes in Artificial Intelligence 2821), Berlin: Springer,
2003, 135ï¿½148.

Again, the problem is not the empirical data, or the guy who puts it
in - that is the "ontos" part - things we found out exist. The
problems are in the "logy" part, the predefined categories used by the
underlying UMLS semantic, and f they are sound ontological categories,
or mix things together that ought to be separated, and separate things
that are essentially the same.

One example discussed by Smith: One  sub-class under Entity in the
UMLS hierarchy is: Conceptual
Entity. This has further  subclasses:
Organism Attribute
Finding
Idea or Concept
Occupation or Discipline
Organization Group
Group Attribute
 Intellectual Product
Language

Now concepts are dependent on minds. This explains why Finding, Idea
or
Concept, Language and Intellectual Product are listed as subclasses of
Conceptual
Entity but for us, there would not be these things. However " Organism
Attributes", unless you are a very radical idealist who would put
_everything_ into this category anyway, seems not belong there.
Organism were around, and had attributes, long before us describing
them. If you go further down the tee, similar things occur regularly,
e.g. in relation to to Group (for example groups of macac monkeys),
and to geographical regions (for example, Hamburg), which according to
UMLS are all "ideas"

The article(s) by Smith list numerous such examples, a bit like
playing  "one of the things doesn't belong with the others"


text:
Burkhard <[email]> wrote:

Possibly Barry has found religion, because these are basically the
objections I had when he came by Melbourne (not that he owes these to
me). In order to set up the proper ontology (whether something is IS_A
or IS_PART_OF), one already needs to know that ontology; so it cannot be
used for discovery, and is not going to be stable in the light of new
discoveries.


text:
On Oct 16, 4:53ï¿½am, Burkhard <[email]> wrote:

The first thing to note is that information is still minimal, but
daunting.  The information flow is enormous.  Someone has to enter the
data.  If you think that you have better categories this is the time
to speak up.  As far as I'm concerned most of the information that I
want is unavailable.  No doubt you can't get the whole story and you
are expected to understand the biology before you use the database
because they aren't going to hold your hand.  Eventually there will be
an indepth Wiki page for every gene from every orgainism on the
planet, but that isn't today.  All I want from the database are things
such as "Could this gene be involved in the phenotype that I am
researching?  What is the basis for those conclusions?  How much stock
can I put in the conclusions?"  The researcher has to be able to glean
that information from what is given.  Nearly all of the genes may only
have information such as found in an EST screen and the only
information on it is the organism and tissue source of the RNA and
that it looks like it may have an ion transport domain.  We are so far
from worrying about the misplaced categories that it may be important
to start off on the right foot, but you can't expect miracles.

Right now I would just want the information input.  We should do it
right, but you can't expect the database to hold your hand and teach
you biology at this point in time.  The most important thing is to get
the information in an accessable format as soon as possible.  It
doesn't matter where they put the information as long as I know where
to look for it.  When they haven't even put it in, it does me no good.

Ron Okimoto


text:
On 16 Oct, 13:24, Ron O <[email]> wrote:

Wich is what I was doing, I thought? Also professionally, and at the
usual places, though my concern is more LKIF than GO, and GO mainly if
it or similar formalisms are suggested for DNA databases - which is
why I pointed you to the literature that does just that.

Fair enough, bu then you may not need a proper  ontology - and what
you get isn't one. Which is after all how this disucssion started. You
simply have a wiki, or any other type of searchable knowledge source.
There is no need to employ an ontology for the search (cf yahoo vs
google), though I think Cyc is trying to get in bed with wikipedia.

ï¿½The researcher has to be able to glean

Again, fair enough, but why then try to have an ontology in the first
place - even in the bloodless computer science meaning?_IF_ you think
however  you need an ontology for this,  misplaced categories might
not be an issue as long as the data is small enough, or homogeneous
enough. It will however become an issue very quickly once the data
becomes sizeable and varied, because then you have to memorise
yourself all the exceptions etc. As an analogy, if I only get 10
emails a day, of which 2 are from my line manager and 2 from my
partner, having an ontology that uses the category "boss" for both of
them is not a problem, I still find what I need.  If I get 1000, and
from various people higher up the pecking order, that won't work any
longer


author: Matthew Vincent

subject: Goodbye for a little while

text:
This message is just to let you all know that I'm taking a break from
this newsgroup for a while. I've become aware that I'm feeling
especially sensitive at the moment, and I need a bit of space to
myself for a while. It's not as though I couldn't handle being here at
all, but rather, I don't want to be posting here when I'm in that
vulnerable state of mind where I could easily over-react and say
something that offends someone. But rest assured, I'll be back.
Addressing sexual violence has become a lifetime occupation for me
now, and nothing could ever deter me from my commitment to it. I'll
find a way to survive so that I can keep contributing to trying to
change society and make the world a safer place. I have to.

Bear in mind that this isn't the first time I've taken a break from
talk.rape, either. Also, it is partially for time-management reasons
as well, since work & study are just starting up again for the year.
I'm glad that I've been able to make some resolutions with people here
(Sam and Heather, especially) and am looking forward to being able to
talk to you all again when I return. It's not about anyone else; it's
just about me. I'll see how I feel. Hopefully, I won't be gone more
than a few weeks or so. Well, I can't think of much else to say. I'll
see you all around soon. In the meantime, take care, and be kind to
each other, and keep up the good work in discussing all these
important issues.

Matthew


author: Sam

subject: Re: Goodbye for a little while

text:
"Matthew Vincent" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Please take care, and come back soon!

Peace.

Sam :-)


author: Neil

subject: Re: Goodbye for a little while

text:
Matthew Vincent <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

We'll miss you, Matthew.  i'll miss you.  Good luck with what you're doing.


author: cicero venatio

subject: Romney to move quickly…

text:
President Romney will act quickly and firmly to restore order to a
nation set on fire by the black militants and white communists.  Using
the National Guard these people will be sent to detention centers,
where their citizenship will be revoked and they will expelled to an
approved nation such as Cuba or Zimbabwe.  The USA will again have a
President who is American, and those who don’t like America will be
asked to leave.  President Romney will find out for once and for all
if Barack is a citizen of Kenya.  It true, he will also be deported to
Mombasa, Kenya.  It will be President Romney’s task to reunite a
nation divided by Barack Obama, by acting against these enemies of the
state and to hold them accountable for their scorched earth reaction
to the election result.


author: jope

subject: Re: Romney to move quickly…

text:
On Oct 29, 10:15 am, cicero venatio <[email]> wrote:

Actually ,being so out touch with reality is rather worrisome and also
underscore the clear and present danger that republicans represent for
this country.You people have clearly lost it.


author: trotsky

subject: Re: Romney to move quickly…

text:
On 10/29/12 9:15 AM, cicero venatio wrote:

Moron alert.


author: Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E

subject: Re: Romney to move quicklyâ€¦

text:
On Oct 29, 10:21 am, "Where's all the China Blue food?"
<[email]> wrote:

    That's on his second term agenda, when doesn't have to worry about
Congress, the Constitution, the rule of law, the will of the American
people and most importantly reelection.


subject: Re: Romney to move quickly…

text:
On Oct 29, 12:00 pm, jope <[email]> wrote:

Come back and tell us that on November 7th. Idiot.


author: Dano

subject: Re: Romney to move quickly…

text:
"jope"  wrote in message
news:[email]...

On Oct 29, 10:15 am, cicero venatio <[email]> wrote:

Actually ,being so out touch with reality is rather worrisome and also
underscore the clear and present danger that republicans represent for
this country.You people have clearly lost it.

==============================================

Yep.  And these are the same folks who say Dems consider Obama a "messiah".

Utterly delusional.  Really a danger to themselves and others.

No one individual or party can magically "fix" everything in one or two
terms...let alone the first day.  It will take a long time.  And that's
really what worries me.  We are far to impatient and unreasonable in our
expectations.  That has already cost us dearly.  I don't think things are
going to change quickly...except to worsen...especially if we elect the
"R's" this time around.  Obama has accomplished enough to warrant another
term.  If he fails...we try another approach.  We survived EIGHT years of
Bush II.  We can survive almost anything.


subject: Re: Romney to move quickly…

text:
On Oct 29, 10:19 am, trotsky <[email]> wrote:

HOT NEWS FLASH !!!  Denial is NOT a river in Africa.


author: William December Starr

subject: Re: Re: Romney to move quicklyâ€¦

text:
In article <[email]>,
"Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E" <[email]> said:

And you know this because...?

-- wds


author: Freedom Dude

subject: Re: Romney to move quicklyâ€¦

text:
"William December Starr"  wrote in message
news:k7159q$910$[email]...

In article
<[email]>,
"Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E" <[email]>
said:

And you know this because...?

-- wds
==========================================================
Can't you tell the guy is a kook?


author: 3082 Dead

subject: #High chance of major Oregon quake: study

text:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/01/high-chance-of-major-oregon-quake-
study/

High chance of major Oregon quake: study
By Agence France-Presse
Wednesday, August 1, 2012 22:12 EDT

WASHINGTON — The western US state of Oregon has a 40 percent chance in
the next half-century of suffering a massive earthquake on the scale of
Japan’s 2011 disaster, a study said Wednesday.

The Pacific Northwest — from the Oregon-California border to Vancouver
Island in Canada — has endured 19 huge earthquakes of around 8.7-9.2
magnitude over the past 10,000 years, Oregon State University researchers
said.

An additional 22 major earthquakes have impacted only the southern part
of the so-called Cascadia fault that runs from the Oregon areas of Coos
Bay to Newport, the study said.

“The southern margin of Cascadia has a much higher recurrence level for
major earthquakes than the northern end and, frankly, it is overdue for a
rupture,” the study’s lead author Chris Goldfinger said in a statement.

The study, published online by the US Geological Survey, estimated a 40
percent chance of a major earthquake around Coos Bay, Oregon, over the
next 50 years.

It said that the earthquake could be on the scale of the 9.0-magnitude
earthquake that struck in the Pacific Ocean near Japan on March 11, 2011.
Some 19,000 people died as the tremor set off a devastating tsunami.

But Oregon has far fewer preparations in place than Japan, which is one
of the world’s most earthquake-prone nations.

The Oregon State University study billed itself as the most comprehensive
yet, which is based on 13 years of research including assessments of
sediment to determine past seismic events.

Oregon already had an oral history of earthquakes, with Native Americans
speaking of a giant tremor in around 1700.

Earthquake preparedness has triggered a major political debate in Oregon,
with advocates warning that many schools and other buildings would be
woefully inadequate in the event of a giant disaster.

Critics say that the massive cost of upgrading Oregon’s infrastructure
could be devoted to more pressing priorities for residents such as
building roads.

--
Subscribe:
[email]
[email]
Unsubscribe:
[email]
[email]

Not dead, in jail or a slave? Thank a liberal!


author: 3109 Dead

subject: Re: #High chance of major Oregon quake: study

text:
On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 01:01:51 -0500, Dänk 42Ø wrote:

quake-

Hate to break this to you, bubbles, but Fresno isn't in Oregon.  Or are
you saying the State of California should pay for Oregon?  If so, why?

And Oregon HAS been upgrading their infrastructure for some time.  Once
they realized they could have a 9.0 quake, they started on it whilst it
was still relatively cheap.  A really big quake will do a lot of damage
no matter what, but if you reduce the casualties and cut the costs of the
damage in half, then it's well worth it.

Oh, wait, there is a third choice: Borrowing

And Danky sinks back into his meth-fueled paranoid fantasy state...


author: Dänk 42Ø

text:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 03:32:09 +0000, 3082 Dead quacked:

Hmm... Given that the USA and all its states are dead broke, this means
that you must choose between forcing others to pay to upgrade Oregon's
infrastructure, or sacrificing your precious high-speed train between
Fresno and Tweakerville.  Oh, wait, there is a third choice: Borrowing
another trillion dollars from China so you can have both, meaning China
forecloses on us early.  But this is what you want.  I can't wait to see
the cost of living increase your new Chinese masters give you!  (Hint: it
involves breaking rocks in a re-education camp.)


author: Jason Gastrich

subject: Prayer for Gully Foyle

text:
* Please join me in daily prayer for an atheist/agnostic from alt.atheism.
Here is a list of 2100 of them.  We are on number 23.  Link:
http://jcsm.org/1on1/AltAtheismAtheistAgnosticList.htm

Dear Lord,

Bless Gully Foyle.  Save his soul.  Help him to repent and trust You for
salvation.

Send Christians to bless Gully.  Let him find a great church and start
attending.  Help him to read the Bible and understand it.

Praise You for being good and being worthy.  There is no other like You.

In Jesus' name, Amen.

God bless you, Gully.

Sincerely,
Jason Gastrich


author: Mark K. Bilbo

subject: Re: Prayer for Gully Foyle

text:
In our last episode <rBR%d.4828$[email]>, Jason
Gastrich pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:

Ah yes, the list you swiped and are using without permission. Even after
you tried suing Butler for the fair use of a graphic from your site.

Can you say "hypocrite?"

I knew you could!


author: Bear

subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Jason Gastrich" wrote
:* Please join me in daily prayer for an atheist/agnostic from alt.atheism.

Please join me in prayer for Jason Gastrich, a believer from one of these
boards.

O Goddess, we thank thee for allowing us consciences that Jason might choose
how to live, and we pray that Jason have the humility to choose thy way.

O Goddess, we thank thee that in Wisdom we have learnt the error of
worshipping supernatural spirits and have been born again in Nature to love
and enjoy the warmth and comfort of kinunity with thee and thine.

Bear


author: Harvest Dancer

subject: Re: Prayer for Gully Foyle

text:
Jason Gastrich wrote:
alt.atheism.
<snip link to plagarized material>

Plagarism is a crime.  Black magick is a sin.

Jason Harvestdancer


author: Bible Bob

subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:57:03 -0500, "Bear" <[email]>
wrote:

When you get done playing Pahsaheman and Kokolï¿½sh with Jason, could
you explain why you didn't pray to the manï¿½tuwï¿½k Mï¿½singw?

BB


author: Church of Jesus Christ

subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Bible Bob" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Dear BB,

Please leave Jason alone.

Jason is praying for people who aren't Christian, and attempting to save
their soul.

Regards


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Bible Bob" wrote
: When you get done playing Pahsaheman and Kokolï¿½sh with Jason, could
: you explain why you didn't pray to the manï¿½tuwï¿½k Mï¿½singw?

Because the goddess is not a supernatural being as Getanittowit is.


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:36:53 -0000, "Church of Jesus Christ"
<[email]> wrote:

Jason is not praying for anyone.  He is mocking people.  He is mocking
God and the Lord Jesus Christ.  He is posting advertisements for his
web site.

The Right To Die is not a God given right,
nor is it an exercise of free will
for if it were, men could think themselves to death.
BB


author: Tom

subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Church of Jesus Christ" <[email]> wrote in message
news:42408ff4$0$32614$[email]...

The people for whom he prays don't want his interference. Just what gives
him and other Christians the right to interfere in the lives of others?


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:47:25 -0500, "Bear" <[email]>
wrote:

I just wondered because I found the mention of a god (no name) and the
manetuwak but no goddess.

BB


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Tom" <[email]> wrote in message
news:6j00e.10476$[email]...

The Word of God, spoken to all Mankind through his living word, the Bible:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to
every creature.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:15,16


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Bible Bob" wrote
: I just wondered because I found the mention of a god (no name) and the
: manetuwak but no goddess.

Because the goddess is from Adelphiasophism, not Lenni Lenape.


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
"Church of Jesus Christ" <[email]> wrote in message
news:42409b4d$0$32617$[email]...

The bible is a book, written by superstitious humans who were attempting to
explain their existence. To say that the bible is the word of some god,
insults both the speaker and the god.


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:25:18 -0000, "Church of Jesus Christ"
<[email]> wrote:

Satan knows and quotes the scriptures.

Who was Jesus speaking to in Mark 16?   Disciples.  What are
disciples?  Disciples are disciplined followers of the teacher and the
teachings.  Does Jason do that?  No.  How do I know?

Matthew 6:5 KJV
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They
have their reward.

Matthew 6:6 KJV
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast
shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:7 KJV
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for
they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

But this a prayer for Jason Gastrich, not by Jason Gastrich..

The Right To Die is not a God given right,
nor is it an exercise of free will
for if it were, men could think themselves to death.
BB


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:35:36 -0500, "Bear" <[email]>
wrote:

Thanks.


author: Bible Studies with Satan

subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
Bible Bob wrote:

My Army includes Jerry Falwell and the lady on TV with the big pink hairdo, and
perhaps you?


subject: Re: Prayer for Jason Gastrich

text:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:05:00 GMT, Bible Studies with Satan
<[email]> wrote:

Thanks for proving that I don't work for you.  Satan knows his own
very well.

BB

The Right To Die is not a God given right,
nor is it an exercise of free will
for if it were, men could think themselves to death.
BB


author: Klaus Schadenfreude

subject: Canadians- Except for Loons In Quebec- Gid Rid of Gun Registration

text:
Sources say that a specialized script program systematically went
through the computer database over a five-day span, deleting the
names, addresses, phone numbers, registry numbers and types of rifles
and shotguns from the massive files, skipping the Quebec records.

The work was finished Wednesday night, and the Tories say the backup
copy was obliterated as well.

The government of Quebec wants the registry data preserved so they can
use it on their own citizens. The Quebec Superior Court agreed in
September and granted an injunction to save the files, and now the
feds are taking it to the Supreme Court of Canada.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/02/gun-owners-revel-in-registry-destruction

WAY TO GO CANADA!


author: R. LaCasse

subject: Re: Canadians- Except for Loons In Quebec- Gid Rid of Gun Registration

text:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 06:03:23 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
<[email]> wrote:

	I'll never believe that all the backup copies were destroyed, ppl
and even cops don't destroy what they think is valuable stuff.

	Due to this physical action to the system, any information from the
database cannot be used against you and the matter is obviously thrown out
of court.

	All the Registry numbers have been background checked for all it was
worth and only proved that the  gun registry is totally useless except as a
shopping list for gungrabbers.

Bob

--
Triad Productions-Fantalla~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://mypage.uniserve.com/~vampire-inter/htmlconc.html)


text:
It was O-B-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E-D.  ;>

That, I think, is the advantage here, although they could use the
"obliterated" list to begin their investigation, I suppose.

Exactly. It was good for wasting money and resources, too.


author: ¥ì¥d

subject: Re: ¤S«Y¹³¥

text:
ï¿½Ú¨ï¿½r......
ï¿½nï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½Aï¿½aï¿½rï¿½Dï¿½Dï¿½D^^~
ï¿½Aï¿½aï¿½ï¿½d ï¿½X ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½dï¿½Ì«ï¿½@ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½....(Jan+4 oï¿½Jï¿½Ì«ï¿½@ï¿½ï¿½...=P)....

wrote:


author: yan

subject: Re: 又係食野

text:
嚙磐嚙緝...嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙瘢 franklin 嚙踝蕭f, 嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭...

"嚙踝蕭嚙�" wrote:


subject: Re: 又係食野

text:
嚙磐bor...嚙踝蕭嚙箴嚙線嚙磐嚙踝蕭嚙諉人嚙編jan...sorry..嚙踝蕭嚙踝蕭N嚙踝蕭嚙盤...

L'inconnue wrote:


subject: Re: ¤S«Y¹³¥

text:
ï¿½kï¿½Bï¿½Í¥Jï¿½Lï¿½ï¿½nÅ¥ï¿½\ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½r.....

ï¿½Ú¦nï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½Aï¿½r~~~~~

Linconnue wrote:


author: Ilena Rose

subject: Bravo Dr. Mercola ... Town of Allopath !

text:
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/index.htm

Yesterday this fine doctor's website was attacked ... however it is
back up today.

May God protect him for daring to use humour to show the defects in
Con Med and their pharma backers.

.
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***


author: Robert

subject: Re: Bravo Dr. Mercola ... Town of Allopath !

text:
<Ilena> wrote in message news:[email]...
Dr. Mercola takes the standard alternative medicine position. Microwave
ovens, cell phones, vaccination, fluoridation, etc., are all bad or will
kill you.

My problem with him is that so many of the health advice items he recommends
lead directly to something he is selling. His site is really an online
health food store. The latest is krill oil. Isn't krill a little animal
eaten by whales?

Robert


author: C A III A

text:
Interesting if he will get FBI to track who did this.

<Ilena> wrote in message news:[email]...


text:
Funny stuff, btw.

<Ilena> wrote in message news:[email]...


author: David Wright

text:
In article <[email]>,
Robert <[email]> wrote:

No, it was a Quentin Tarantino movie.  You know, "Krill Bill."

  -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
     These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth


author: Mark Probert

text:
Robert wrote:

Look how big and strong those whales are. Some can hold their breath for
hours. They live in very cold water, and thrive.

Maybe Mercola has a good point...or...

Did you know that he is the only person ever sued by Dr. Barrett to
actually have to pay Dr. Barrett? Isn't that amazing?

Another excellent analysis of Dr. Mercola is here:

http://members.tripod.com/vaccinesupport-ivil/antivaxsites/mercola.html


author: Peter Bowditch

text:
Mark Probert <[email]> wrote:

Every time I'm feeling a bit low I remind myself that Mercola said
that autism is caused by pasteurised milk. I can laugh for hours about
that one.

If the amount of traffic to my web site doubled overnight it would
take me about five minutes to find out where it was coming from, but
it takes that long because I don't have access to the best IT brains
like Mercola does.


text:
Peter Bowditch wrote:

Several things that Mercola says and sells contradict themselves.


text:
Jan Drew wrote:

Jan, no need to hide the URL, it is:

http://members.tripod.com/vaccinesupport-ivil/antivaxsites/mercola.html

you just hate facts.


author: pnyikos

subject: Re: If L. Frank Baum had encountered someone like Keegan

text:
On Oct 16, 1:19 pm, [email] (Ray Fischer) wrote:

[deletia of things discussed earlier]

Could you please tell me what goes in that ellipsis?  I've twice
clicked on the blue underline in Google, dutifully typed in the
letters requested--and then was taken to completely different
webpages!  by the time I got back to this one, the ellipsis was there
again, as if I had done nothing.

There ARE low-lifes on Usenet about whom that statement might arguably
be said, so I'd need to know who was being addressed.

Oh? the Desert Storm example is the only one I know where he even
admitted to having mis-worded something.  We  might count that one,
even though he apologized repeatedly for it--but I'd like to see two
more examples.

That was said to Gwen, in a very specific context.  You can't
generalize from one statement being considered a lie, to all
statements being considered lies unless they are proven.

Peter Nyikos


author: james g. keegan jr.

text:
In article
<[email]>,
 pnyikos <[email]> wrote:

it doesn't make any difference. you asked for three examples. fischer
provided them.

is a lie

no matter who it was said to.

if i give you three more, will you go away?

five more?

ten more?

or will you continue to defend osprey's lies as the original peter
nyikos defended the liars of the past, although much more eloquently
than you.


author: Ray Fischer

text:
pnyikos  <[email]> wrote:

All that embarrassing documentation.

Since you (or your software) put them there then you can figure out
how to take them out.

Your rank stupidity isn't my problem.

And if you weren't insane then you would learn from your mistakes that
you're not nearly as omniscient as you pretend to be.

Might?!?  It was a clear and unambigious lie, moron, and the fact that
you're even willing to pretend otherwise shows that you're as sleazy
and dishonest a pro-liar as the worst of them.

But his own statement Asshole is a liar.


subject: Bush signals a threat to abortion rights...[Re: After ALP protects our PBS, Bush pressured to import cheap medicine, rather than destroy ours!  ]

text:
Hmmm. Seems like a sting in the tail. This idiot needs his nose whacked off,
it's too damn long and pokey anyway, and besides, it's made from rubber so
it surely can't hurt? One can't cease to wonder! Sometimes it is prudent to
question authority when the given situation (pregnant women who do not wish
to remain so) has no bearing whatsoever on the one making the rules! Social
progress? Oh yes, it must be, cuz Bush claimed he was against
totalitarianism, did he not? Give me a break! Removing access to safe legal
abortion is a sure sign of social REGRESS. I've said it before, and I'll say
it again. Taking away people's basic human rights is stupid, illogical, and
tyrannical, and any society that would promote this sort of
ultra-authoritarianism deserves the government they get!

I don't think Bush has ever been pregnant...oh, that's right, he can't
possibly ever be, he's not a woman! Funny hey, MEN making rules about WOMEN!
Yep, typical chauvinist PIGS!

I just hope that Bush doesn't suddenly morph into a female version of
himself and then find himself (whooops I meant herself) with an unwanted
pregnancy and her medical advisors telling her - "Sorry my ye olde faithful
foxy lady, you just gave up those rights when you were the President!
Remember? 'Fraid you're stuck with it now, see ya later!".

Gee whiz, that wouldn't just change his (whoops I meant her) mind right
there and then?...erhm, not!

noyb


author: Toby Ponsenby

subject: Re: Bush signals a threat to abortion rights...[Re: After ALP protects our PBS, Bush pressured to import cheap medicine, rather than destroy ours!  ]

text:
<| N.O.Y.B. |> did write on  24Aug2004 at 6:08:17 PM

The nose is wood, dammit, wood.
But a Marionette? Nope - It's a Glove Puppet this time.
Question is, whose hand is up it's arse.


subject: Re: Bush signals a threat to abortion rights...[Re: After ALP protects our PB...

text:
In article <[email]>, "N.O.Y.B." <[email]>
writes:

********************************
LOL!  Love it!  However, I seriously doubt an unexpected or unwanted pregnancy
would change *her* mind.  She would simply morph into an anti-abortion woman.
It wouldn't matter which sex we were entertaining here; there still would be no
empathy for the plight of another.


text:
pregnancy
woman.
be no

True.

In any case I doubt Bush would be swayed by empathy, he's a pretty
headstrong type. He's one of the "tough" guys, not willing to compromise on
his own personal belief system - even if that means women would be deprived
of the right of access to safe and legal abortion.

noyb.


subject: Re: Bush signals a threat to abortion rights...[Re: After ALP protects our PB..

text:
In article <[email]>, "N.O.Y.B." <[email]>
writes:

************************
I don't think that he is merly "interested" in denying women the right to
abortion, I think that he is absolutely *dedicated* to it!   It's just that he
can't open that can of worms to the general public on an election year, and he
KNOWS it!


author: [redacted]

text:
[email] (Reptile944) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

He opened that can of worms in 2000 after the FDA approved the morning
after pill.  Reagan didn't seem to have trouble getting elected or
reelected.  The general public isn't as proabortion as people like
Chilton would have you believe.


author: JMD Morgan

subject: Anal Sex is not allowed

text:
Sensitive Issues Pertaining to Sex

Anal Sex

Anal intercourse with one's wife is a major sin, whether it occurs at
the time of menstruation or not. The Prophet SAWS (Peace & Blessings of
Allah be upon Him) cursed the one who does this: "Cursed is the one who
approaches his wife in her rectum" (Reported by Imaam Ahmad, 2/479; see
also Saheeh al-Jaami', 5865).

The Prophet SAWS (Peace & Blessings of Allah be upon Him) also said:
"The one who has intercourse with a menstruating woman, or with a woman
in her rectum, or who goes to a fortune-teller, has disbelieved in what
was revealed to Muhammad." (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, no. 1/243; see also
Saheeh al-Jaami', 5918).

In spite of the fact that many wives of sound nature refuse this, there
are some husbands who threaten their wives with divorce if they do not
obey them (in this matter), and some even deceive their wives, who are
too shy to ask scholars about it, into thinking that it is permissible.
The Prophet SAWS (Peace & Blessings of Allah be upon Him) said that a
man may approach his wife in any way he likes, from the front or the
back, so long as intercourse takes place in the place from through which
a child is born. There is no doubt that the rectum is the place from
which waste matter is expelled, not the place from which a child is born.

Another reason why some may commit this immoral act is that they enter
upon what should be a clean married life with some jaahili (ignorant)
traditions and odd practices, or with memories of scenes from indecent
movies, for which they have not repented to Allaah.

It is known that this act is forbidden even if both partners agree to
it. Mutual consent to a haraam deed does not make it halaal.

I ask Allah to bestow upon us a proper understanding of His religion and
to make us adhere to its limits, for He is the All-Hearing, the One Who
answers prayers.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/sex/sex_queries.htm


author: Docky Wocky

subject: Re: Anal Sex is not allowed

text:
jmd sez:

"I ask Allah to bestow upon us a proper understanding of His religion and
to make us adhere to its limits, for He is the All-Hearing, the One Who
answers prayers..."
_____________________________

(Sound of crickets chirping)


author: Larry

subject: Re: Anal Sex is not allowed

text:
JMD Morgan <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

There's a very good reason for this.  Anal sex doesn't produce more slaves
for the clergy to bleed.

Anything that lowers profits and power is called "sin" in any religion.

AS there is no god and never has been, there is no "sin" to create.

Anal sex is great fun for both and prevents unwanted pregnancy....and you
all know it.

Life was never meant to be lived in a religious dungeon.....


subject: Re: Anal Sex is not allowed

text:
On Aug 7, 9:01 am, JMD Morgan <[email]> wrote:

you have an unhealthy pre occupation..


author: cornholio

subject: Re: Anal Sex is not allowed

text:
On Aug 7, 9:01 am, JMD Morgan <[email]> wrote:

What about with camels, goats or little girls? Did the prophet
allow anal sex with these entities?


author: Ilya Shambat

subject: Mandelshtam

text:
Translations from Osip Mandelshtam

The Snake

The dusk of autumn -- just like rusted metal
Sings, violates and eats through flesh
That falls like all temptation and Cresus's capital
Before the razor blade of your anguish.

My God! Like by a dancing snake I'm falling
Exhausted, and before her I am meek;
My soul's salvation I am not extolling
The reason or the muse I do not seek.

Enough untying with my wits or essence
A finely woven yarn of smart replies
There are no words for laments and confessions,
Heavy and shallow is my cup of lies.

Why do you breathe? On stones you will be dancing,
Sick python you, then curling in a ball;
Next moment swing and twist as if romancing,
And instantly in expiration fall.

And uselessly the day of execution,
Agape at all the sound and all the sight,
I listen as has fearlessly come completion,
The screech of metal and the wind's dark might!

x x x

I cannot stand the rays
Of banal stars at night
Greetings, my madness old,
Gun tower's searing height.

Become a whirling stone
A cobweb become instead:
The empty heaven's chest
Wound with a thinning thread.

My time will come as well
Spreading the wings as I ought
But whereverfrom comes
Arrow of living thought?

Exhausting my way or my time
I'll be back again here;
There I could not love,
Here to love I fear.

 Village of the Tsar

Let's head to village of the Tsar
Where drunken, swept by wind and free
Young men are smiling right at me
Riding on horseback high and far.
Let's head to village of the Tsar!

Parks, castles, stables in a row
And on the trees are lumps of snow
And to the shouts -- "be well, hotshots"
The words "be well" ring back like shots -
Parks, castles, stables in a row.

One-story houses wide and far
Where generals of single mind
Shorten their lifetimes going blind
Reading Dumas and "Nieva":
Mansions -- not houses -- wide and far.

Train whistles. Riding in, a knight,
With retinue in pavilions full of light
A sword behind him sternly dragging
Officer leaves the cabin, ragging:
I do not doubt this is a knight!

And man is coming home again --
Where etiquette and decor reign
A fear-instilling chariot
A grey-haired fraulein on the spot
Knows, man is coming home again...

 Old Man

It's dawn, sirens are wailing,
Seven a.m.
You that appear like Verlen,
Wake up old man!

Eyes childish, angling,
Green fire makes ash;
Upon the neck is hanging
A colored sash.

He curses, mutters, mumbles
Words lost within;
He wants to make confession
But first to sin.

A disappointed worker
A bitter one
The eye, beat up in melee,
Shines like the sun.

Thus having followed Sabbath,
He drags his feet:
Happy privation stares


subject: Re: Mandelshtam

text:
Oy, gevalt!
Don't quit your day job, Ilyusha...

TK9

"Ilya Shambat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...


subject: Re: Mandelshtam

text:
"TonyaK911" <[email]> wrote in message news:<OsHJb.35168$[email]>...

Too late. Already did.


author: stone

subject: Re: Mandelshtam

text:
Ecclesiastes 12:12   And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of
making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of
the flesh.

[email] (Ilya Shambat) wrote in message news:<[email]>...


author: mr. smarty pants

subject: War profiteers!

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] (JC) wrote:

thanks for the info;  I'll share it. today!


author: Tom S.

subject: Re: War profiteers!

text:
"mr. smarty pants" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Cite?


subject: Re: War profiteers!

text:
"Tom S." <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
<crickets chirping>


author: polipo

subject: Re: Gun sales up, crime down? Nope, no causal link exists..

text:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:58:11 -0700, Man_of_Mind <[email]>
wrote:

In tepid response to your own initiated, ongoing and childishly repetitive
assaults, frankly, no, they do not.

Or "not", if that was your intended word choice.

No, you may simply continue insulting all the respondents here who've
faithfully delineated your dearth of factual fealty, as really you haven't
another strategy to deploy.

As several have previously noted - that's so sad.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email] ---


text:
On 12/29/2011 10:24 AM, lollipop was still whimpering because:

As I indicated earlier..

Oh, a spelling lame..  Next?

After you've completely abandoned the discussion for the
usual dissembling of a right-wing troll with nothing to say..

Please continue to express your contempt for my discussion
of how "more guns" do not undermine the statistical facts
surrounding how they present more opportunities for crime..

--The Daily Squalor article does not undermine that, polio..


author: Tiffany 899

subject: Re: Wanted........

text:
[email] (Film Guy) wrote:

Is this a documentary on "cat fights"?

Amy


author: Film Guy

subject: Re: Wanted........

text:
[email] (Tiffany 899) wrote in message news:<20030210140539.038$[email]>...

The documentary is about women's violence.......a subject that is
often ignored or laughed at by our culture. And yes, part of it
includes female/female violence. Most of the documentary is focused on
women who are violent towars men......something that is far more
common than most people know.

We are almost done, but we would like to obtain at least some footage
of women commiting violence towards each other.


author: Szasz

subject: Re: Wanted........

text:
[email] (Tiffany 899) wrote in message news:<20030210140539.038$[email]>...

   Perfect newsgroup to post to. After all, we talk.politics.drugs
people love to settle our differences through violence.


author: roid

subject: Re: Wanted........

text:
"Film Guy" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
news:<20030210140539.038$[email]>...

i suggest you download a program called "kazaa lite" and look around there.
why are you posting to a drug newsgroup though?  what would we know about
violence?


author: Alex Goykhman

subject: Re: ESTONIAN news (1.1)

text:
In article <[email]> [email] writes:
...

    An interesting set of priorities, to say the least.
...
...

    The Estonians are Nordic, and as a Nordic people they must
    be entitled to a Nordic standard of living.  The only real
    problem they have is that not everyone in Estonia speaks
    a Nordic language yet...


subject: Re: ESTONIAN news (1.1)

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Alex Goykhman) writes:

  Nothing surprising. The newly "elected" president of
Estonia Lennart Meri stated it outright that his primary
concern is not an economy and not a human rights, but
a "salvation of Estonian nation" from "extermination".

Serega & Co


subject: Re: ESTONIAN news (1.1), languages

text:
In article <[email]>, [email] (Alex Goykhman) writes:

This is a mistake in the English translation, indeed.

To get the things straight:

NORDIC languages (according to the Nordic countries) are:

(1) The Scandinavian tongues (Icelandic, Faer island tongue, Norwegian, Danish,
Swedish) and

(2) the Baltic Finnish languages (Finnish, Estonian, Samish) and even

(3) the Eskimo languages spoken in Greenland.

The bulk of the Russian speaking population does not master any of these
languages. And the Estonian speakers have not always had the opportunity to
teach themselves the SCANDINAVIAN tongues, which concerns the writer of this
piece of news.

with best regards,
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum


author: Tang Huyen

subject: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
Takuji wrote:

Ah! Such a buconic setting! As contrasted with the
nonstop juvenile sparring of Jen, Stumper and Peter Olcott!
If it is so refreshing and enchanting, with the grasses swaying
in the golden breeze, who cares what it means! Enjoy!

Tang Huyen


author: Uncle Weasel

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:46:30 -0400, Tang Huyen wrote
(in message <[email]>):

What do you mean by that?

   ---Uncle Weasel


author: Meercat

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Tang Huyen" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Enjoy as the throats get cut, the women raped and children splattered to
pieces... Samsara or Nirvana, detachment or engagement, each to their own...

(Just trying to restore some balance here!)

o


subject: the mean season [ was Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Uncle Weasel" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

i'm not sure i would know what
it means to now ask, what do
you mean by what does he
mean about what it means?


author: possum

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Meercat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:44991f0a$0$3547$[email]...
hi stef

i'm glad somebody is.

have you seen this report on the mass kidnapping of workers?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1802851,00.html

the significance of this is that the victims are not the 'usual suspects'
of the weakest and most vulnerable.  when workers are attacked as workers,
you are seeing a complete breakdown of a society.

we, britain and the usa, and the quickly evaporating (rapidly scarpering)
coalition of the willing, have undeniably contributed (to be more precise,
the actions carried out in the name of our countries, that is to say, in
the name of the people of western and allegedly free democracies) to
bringing about this unacceptable state of affairs.  i mean, unacceptable.

theoretically speaking, we are well within our rights to insist this must
change forthwith.  in reality, it is sooth that many people are still able
to add two and two together and arrive at 4... i'd say more...imagine the
words leaders and people linked by a string of profanities and obscenities
and shit...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1802211,00.html

moving on before i start chucking in other words...like accountability,
and others, which i don't have time to start buddhist threads on, the
usual suspects that can have capital letters...and upsetting certain
people with facetious remarks about the blairs' political relationship
with human rights law...and 'gordon and globalisation - ith it thcotch
mytht?'...

any thoughts on the walmart-asda / GMB dispute?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/supermarkets/story/0,,1803022,00.html

possum


author: Evelyn Ruut

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Meercat" <[email]> wrote in message
news:44991f0a$0$3547$[email]...

Meercat, here's how I see it.   If there is nothing you can do about those
things, getting aggravated and upset about them isn't going to help either.
You should be AWARE of them, and yes, accept that they are unjust, but
always remember that you are responsible for your own state of mind.   It is
better to "enjoy" as Tang has suggested than to ruminate over the injustices
of the world, the environment, life itself, when you are powerless to stop
those things.   You do what you can, when you can, in any manner you can.
You are aware of them as being unjust, but you don't torture yourself with
them.   Being clear headed, you are much more inclined towards helping
effectively in wisdom, rather than in anger.


author: Robert Epstein

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
Meercat wrote:

enjoy the breeze, help those suffering - we've got two hands!

robert

= = = = = = = =


subject: Re: the mean season [ was Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 1:33:00 -0400, [email] wrote
(in message <gS4mg.9052$[email]>):

I'm not sure, either.

I just wanted to be one of the guys.

   ---Uncle Weasel


author: Bonobo

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"possum" <zen102422@zen> wrote in message
news:4499e4ef$0$4882$[email]...

I certainly don't get everything right but THIS WAS SO PREDICTABLE AND
AVOIDABLE. There was a FANTASTIC, rare opportunity to extend the mandate of
the UN inspectors to peacfully 'reign-in' Saddam, possibly a model of
peacful coercion of 'rogue' states. So what do we do BLAM with blood and
guts everywhere (This is *so* medieval to 20th Century machismo in its worst
sense). The verbal options HAD NOT RUN OUT BY ANY MEANS... It wasn't self
defence and it wasn't a last resort...

Blair expediency with "Can I buy you Dinner?" Bush? Yuk! (I wonder who we
are going to buy those Trident replacements from?) - I think Blair probably
did think he was doing the best thing for Britain by saddling up to Bush but
boy do they have blood on their hands...

Lets not diss democracy...

I do actually think that Bush + Blair do know what they THINK they are
doing. It is just not acceptable to tell us the truth and also they have
cocked-up big time. Also we in Europe have lived with terrorism for decades
not the US and they have overreacted to the tragic circumstances of 9/11
imo. Better to treat terrorists by the law rather than as 'combatents'.
Every political text book will tell you how useful it is to have an 'enemy'
or 'scape-goat' it is *so* convenient to distract.

I don't want to go back in time to Feudalism with religious fiefdoms (Where
invariably religion was used as a pretext for rulers to achive their ends)
Deja vu anyone?

As a Buddhist I would like to see rulers/leaders capable of achiveing change
thrugh persuasion and peacful coersion not using larger and larger bombs...
I would also like our leaders to show moral examples not 'render', 'torture'
our put combatents out side the law. We need to show the best possible
example of how to treat human kind irrespective of the attrocities that
might be commited against us.

Not really except the world of work is becoming more like I understand it to
be in the US i.e. HIRE or FIRE and source CHEAPER & CHEAPER.... Mrs. Bonobo
& I have been buying more local food from farms etc but who has the time
nowadays?

Cheers,
Stef


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Evelyn Ruut" <[email]> wrote in message
news:hYamg.10447$[email]...

On the whole I agree but you are also denying human experience here i.e. the
fully human experience of getting aggravated and upset about the injustices
of the world which *can* be a motivating factor for change (else we are all
in danger of becoming smiling zombie automata)

Fully agree but I also try to listen to my visceral reactions and try to
judge these as well (There is nothing that pisses me off more than how we
can have death, death, death, suffering suffering, suffering and yet we can
all go shopping... Perverse I may be but realistic? Do 'Happy People' have a
monopoly on objectivity? I think not... There is room for 'Smiling' and
'pissed-off' Buddhists imo...

Ruminate for the sake of rumination I agree achieves nothing but reflections
on why I feel so 'angry' about the shit shovelled on some of my fellow men
and women and what I can do about it (even if in some very small way).
Please DON'T book me in for the lobotomy yet to remove my capability to
'feel'...

Well said, or if you can't you do like Tang sez, or have Sex like Bonobos
do....

Sure

On balance I agree with you but still I feel that we need to be constantly
aware of the dangers of complacency... Anger is a valid human response,
dangerous maybe, because it tends to be rather indiscriminate but with
mindfulness one can find what this human reaction is telling you. I tend to
proscribe violence rather than anger per se, as anger contains important
information, violence is the acting out which is ususally inappropriate. For
intelligent creatures I am constantly infuriated that the only way nations
seem to able to solve problems is by continuing to club their opponents to
death. Sometimes I really do feel sick to be part of the human race... can't
we rise above this???

Tang is mainly right IMO but there is room for other more engaged practices
if that is how the fancy takes you...

Cheers,

Stef

(Sorry, metamorphosised again!)


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Robert Epstein" <[email]> wrote in message
news:%bdmg.15951$DR1.7120@trnddc02...

:-)


text:
Uncle Weasel wrote:

ha ha, you're in, baby!

how does it feel to be in with the out crowd?

robert

= = = = = = = =


author: Keynes

text:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 8:22:24 -0400, Uncle Weasel <[email]> wrote:

Two psychiatrists meet on the street.
"You're fine.  How am I?"


author: Hollywood Lee

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
Bonobo wrote:

As a Buddhist, I would like my farts to smell of roses and life to be
like the song Big Rock Candy Mountain:

---------------

One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fire was burning
Down the track came a hobo hiking and he said boys I'm not turning
I'm headin for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountains
So come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains there's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees
Where the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft boiled eggs
The farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hay
Oh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall and the wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew and of whiskey too
You can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again as soon as you are in
There ain't no short handled shovels, no axes saws or picks
I'm a goin to stay where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk that invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains

-------------


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Bonobo" <[email]> wrote in message
news:449a9d1a$0$69365$[email]...

very 20th century.  it was a deliberately chosen initiative, against
warnings from many sources.

or the rule of law...

or human rights...

but who's doing the dissing?  not just the enemies of democracy.
those bringing it into disrepute, and those who promote it for personal
exploitation purposes, from within, we could expect to do something
about....

i think TB has really painted himself into a corner - even more so than
Bush.
Bush is under pressure because the consequences have turned out so
catastrophically.
Blair stuck himself with WMDs, not regime change, and he has the BLIAR
albatross round his neck, around which no line can be drawn.
They are both trying to control the news, as normally expected, but
Blair's position is that the truth is totally impermissible.  Blair is
hanging on, which he's good at, but the damage (from delusion
maintainance) is incalculable.

nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!

that fricking idiot blair is promoting faith schools so that the education
examination targets can be met!
he should be _made_ to watch star trek!

our leaders have not shown that moral example, and a class of 10 year olds
would easily work out why it is in our own interests to behave.
 however difficult, in the way you describe.  (i don't necessarily believe
in morality).  the moral highground has already been given away, and the
people, who have been shamed by them are the ones who pay the price...
failing putting a class of 10 year olds in charge of sorting out the mess,
it is looking to me like it's up to us.

life sure gets faster.  where would we be without  the internet, hey?
now that we're all consumers, it wouldn't surprise me if the general level
of annoyance isn't such that
a tell walmart to spin on it opportunity is too good to pass up.  one way
or another.

say a hello to Mrs. Bobobo from me.  : )

possum


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Bonobo" <[email]> wrote in message
news:44995cde$0$69366$[email]...

(snipped)

I don't know a single "complacent" buddhist, Stef.   Most of us are very
interested in injustice and political situations.  The only difference is
that we know how complicated it really is.   Fools think it is easy... they
just go out and force others to their will by whatever means they can.

Anger is a valid human response,

Of course, that is fine.  Experience it, but not to allow it to destroy your
clarity.  I am with you on that.

I tend to

I agree with you on this 100%.   It certainly sucks to realize that with all
the wisdom of all the sages of all the religions of all the world, we still
have war.   To think of all the people who have died in wars, there are
still those who believe that depriving others of life is any kind of real
solution to differences of opinion.   Joining those who think that way isn't
a solution.

This isn't the exact quote, but I do have it saved somewhere  "If one would
hunt monsters one must take care that one doesn't become one"  (possibly
paraphrased Nietsche)


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:51:14 +0100, "Bonobo" <[email]> wrote:

What?   Again?


text:
"Robert Epstein" <[email]> wrote in message
news:redmg.15958$DR1.13618@trnddc02...

Has Tang left the building yet?


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
Hollywood Lee wrote:

Never really read all the words; what a great freakin' song.
Written by perhaps Woody Guthrie or someone like him....

robert

= = = = = = =


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 15:35:25 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut" <[email]> wrote:

Taoists say the world needs no improvement.
Considering how all of humanity has been improving things
since they fell out of the trees, there may be something to that.


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Keynes" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

oops

Touchï¿½

:)  <- Smiling inanely

(I give up! - oh if it were true!)


text:
Bonobo wrote:

for all intents and purposes.....

robert

= = = = =


subject: The right place (was Re: the mean season)

text:
Bonobo wrote:

Thank you again, Stef my sweet and loving son,
for being my conscience. If I had money I'd pay
you for reminding me of my own good. I'm off
again.

Tang Huyen


text:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:10:17 -0400, Bonobo wrote
(in message <44996156$0$22121$[email]>):

Makes me feel like raging. I always was, sometimes, out-rageous.

Like a formless field of benefaction.

   ---Uncle Weasel


author: Julian

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
Robert Epstein wrote:

Missing verse...

The punk rolled up his big blue eyes
     And said to the jocker, "Sandy,
     I've hiked and hiked and wandered too,
     But I ain't seen any candy.
     I've hiked and hiked till my feet are sore
     And I'll be damned if I hike any more
     To be buggered sore like a hobo's whore
     In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.

http://www.fact-index.com/b/bi/big_rock_candy_mountain.html


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Keynes" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Hi Keynes,

Here is what Longchenpa had to say about it.  I think you'll enjoy it.  It's
a great favorite of mine.

"Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having
nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst
into laughter."    -Longchenpa


author: Peter Olcott

subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
"Keynes" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Yup!


subject: Re: The right place (was Re: the mean season)

text:
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

(You make me) chuckle which Keynes says is a good thing....

(and Jan gives me a chance to vent my spleen in a safe fashion...)

:-)


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:17:26 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut" <[email]> wrote:

Wonderful.


subject: Re: A piece of heaven (was Re: Beliefs)

text:
Evelyn Ruut wrote:

in my top three also.

robert

= = = = = =


author: John P. Boatwright

subject: Re: ...and a question for Muslims... (if you guys don't mind)

text:
[email] wrote:

Jesus said to PUT AWAY THE SWORD.

Is God giving new commands in the Koran???

What ever happened to "vengence is mine saith the LORD"???

eh???

God commanding something is quite a bit different
than people just up and killing others without a
command from God.

God decides when people lose the breath of life, not
man.

Jesus said to put away the sword.

Jesus said to put away the sword and turn the other cheek.

Hmm... doesn't the Koran include that?

Answer the question, does the Koran include Jesus's
statement to "turn the other cheek"???

How about "forgiving 7 * 70 times" ???

eh???

Are those missing in the Koran???

Then you're saying the Koran is just some political
message of the day???

Huh.

            ================
            W  H  E  R  E  ?
            ================

Jesus GAVE himself to be killed by the Jewish high
preists (not the entire Jewish population) who then
had him put to death by the Roman soldiers.

Jesus DID NOT protest or put up ANY fight.

This EXAMPLE was OVERRIDDEN by early Christian
LEADERS who decided to dump constant propaganda like:

 "They killed our Jesus, let's do God a favour and..."

You won't see any command to kill Jews from Jesus or
anyone else for that matter.

Oh, then you're saying the LEADERS said it and it's
not in the Koran.

Fine.

Now I guess the Muslim LEADERS will be following
the Koran???

eh???

Hundreds of years ago, hardly anyone could read and barely
anyone had a bible. The leaders were FREE to say most anything
to rile up Christians against Jews or Muslims if that's what
they preferred.

But...  THERE IS NO COMMAND BY JESUS TO KILL ANYONE.

Any leader EVER to have used the bible to incite killing
was LYING.

That's >>>> ANY LEADER <<<<.

So if you find ANY LEADER saying to kill Jews...

THEY ARE LIARS.

If you find ANY LEADER saying to kill Muslims...

THEY ARE LIARS.

Jesus NEVER said to kill anyone.

In fact, the woman caught in adultry was to be stoned
by the crowd, but Jesus stopped the entire event by
simply pointing out that NO ONE THERE was sinless therefore
no one was allowed to stone the woman.

In essense, Jesus knew she would be forgiven and therefore
those willing to stone her WOULD HAVE BEEN COMMITING MURDER.

Jesus provides FORGIVENESS OF SINS, >>> NOT <<< death.

If the Koran truely follows Jesus, the Muslims will be
pushing for FORGIVENESS through Jesus, >>> NOT <<< death.

ha ha ha...

You're pushing Mohammed being John the Baptist again.

PROVE IT.

Then prove your assertion that you have a "Kingdom of Michael".

ha ha ha...

Jesus is the RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE.

Your doctrine of a "Kingdom of Michael" is NOT mentioned
by Jesus.

Jihad means that???

NOPE.

Jihad means "Holy War".


author: David McKee

text:
Actually, the entire Jewish population did kill Jesus.
In fact, so did the entire gentile population.

In fact, so did all mankind.

Both indirectly:
By making it necessary.

And directly:
Each of us, as a member of mankind, were guilty
of denying Christ at the moment that He was
"betrayed" and brought to be crucified.

It's not a "strange quirk" that every disciple
abandoned Him when He was "captured."

Thanks!
-Dave


author: Fredericka Lohr

text:
John P. Boatwright wrote:

<snip>
<snip>

It certainly sounds like the Koran does say to kill others for not
accepting Islam, in Sura 8:  "When thy Lord spake unto the angels,
'I will be with you: therefore stablish ye the faithful.  I will cast
a dread into the hearts of the infidels.' *Strike off their heads then,
and strike off from them every finger-tip*." (8:12).  And, "Fight
against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of
it God's.  If they desist, verily God beholdeth what they do..." (8:40).
This pertained to the Battle of Bedr, a real, not a metaphysical, battle.

Fredericka


author: [redacted]

text:
"John P. Boatwright" <[email]> wrote:

Christian theology deifies Jesus, thus making the Jews the
murderers of God.

No he didn't. He taught the Doctrine of the "resurrection of
the dead". The priests were UPSET because that Doctrine demonstrated
to the people that they had NO KNOWLEDGE of the Torah or the Prophets
which is what they claimed to have. So they had him killed to protect
their jobs.

No. I'm not pushing it. Merely stating something that cannot
be stated in any other medium of communication on this planet.

Interesting. You have NEVER read the Koran, and you are saying
that you are an expert in the meaning of the term 'jihad'.

Unfortunately, in some instances the dictionary gives the
common conventional wisdom public definition of a term. Dictionary
definitions are not based upon the Knowledge of Truth--or else you
would read that the "resurrection of the dead" includes the
revelation of the memories of previous lives.

Didn't anyone tell you, Boats???????

In 1991 there was a war which I refer to as the Gulf Massacre--
pitting the CHRISTIAN countries against a Muslim country.

This was the 'resurrection' of the crusades from the Middle Ages.

Read the War Scroll, Boats. It is not proof,, but it may give
you some idea of the origin of the term.

Becoming hysterical again, Boats.

The religion is called Islam, Boats. Yet It is different than
anything you have ever heard before.

I know. Because It is not for sale, as is your religion.
Truth is free to anyone who desire It with ALL of their heart
and their mind and their will and their strength.

The others are merely playing at it.

A final cheer.

As Goebbels stressed, do NOT under ANY circumstances engage
the discriminating functions of an individual's intellect--because
then ALL is LOST.

Mi cha el