subject: Re: Access Denied to "the Pill"

text:
In article <41a38081$0$1070$[email]>, Michael Calwell
<[email]> writes:

*****************************
Which means that you consider athiests incompentent.  An athiest would be the
least likely person to interfer with the legal rights of a patron of any
business.


author: sparky

subject: Re: Access Denied to "the Pill"

text:
"Michael Calwell" <[email]> wrote in message
news:41a38081$0$1070$[email]...

No person should be allowed to let their beliefs interfere with their job.
This includes both Christians (all kinds) ,Muslims (a;; kinds) atheists,
Satanists
and any witch doctors.
  If they find they can not fulfill the tenents of their job they should
immediately
seek new employment!


author: Michael Ejercito

subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
Adam H. wrote:
of
issue and
and we
plus
sarin
right.
that
WMD
the
when in
What Payne was pointing out was that President Bush had very good
reasons to believe that what he was saying was true.

 Michael


author: Adam H.

subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
On 17 Jan 2005 11:20:52 -0800, "Michael Ejercito"
<[email]> wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of
farmyard animals:

Not according to those who gave him the intelligence, of course.

---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
 - Thomas Jefferson


author: Ray Fischer

subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
Michael Ejercito <[email]> wrote:

He wanted an excuse to invade.


author: Mitchell Holman

subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
"Michael Ejercito" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

   So who gave him those "very good reasons"
that turned out to be not so very good after all?


author: james g. keegan jr.

subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
"Michael Ejercito" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

i think it's a reach for any sane person to believe that.


author: Osprey

subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
"Adam H." <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Actually, what Adam isn't saying is...

Not according to what HE wants to believe.  Like many Liberals, their soul
attempt and only goal is to bash Republicans.  If Bush was a Democrat, Adam
would not be saying a word.  Now naturally Adam is going to complain and say
something in response to this that is stupid, but that is to be expected.
Adam couldn't tell you the truth if his life depended on it.

The truth is, Adam is only out to bash Bush.  He will believe what he wants
too and disregard anything else.


subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:33:35 -0500, "Osprey" <[email]>
wrote, akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:

Oh, more lies from Bobby. What a shock. Bobby's so eager to defend a
President that lied to invade another country that he'll similarly lie
about anyone who criticizes.

He's a fascist, in other words.

---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
 - Thomas Jefferson


subject: osprey sez liberals have 'soul'

text:
"Osprey" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

what is that "university" you claim to attend?


subject: Re: Ritter Right About Iraq

text:
"Adam H." <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Oh, more denials from Adam. What a shock.


author: Mandrachtoff R P

subject: What changed.

text: In the old days, nikolai did not report me to the goggle police.  I did not have to go three days without posting merely for sexual content in my posting.  Was it really because he was offended, or could he possibly say there was offensive material?  I don't want to be at war with nikolai, yet that is what he has chosen.  It's inevitable, isn't it?  Every year or so we have our tiff, and I guess this is it.


author: Nikolai Kingsley

subject: Re: What changed.

text:
was offensive

a) things that offend most people don't bother me. conversely, some
things that don't bother most people piss me off. i'm working on
reducing the latter category.

b) i'm serious, in here, about once every fifteen months.

c) if you want a war, you'll have to take that up with Rania Kuvakei:

http://evefaces.com/?rania%20kuvakei

d) tiff? Gooby, pls: tga.


subject: Re: What changed.

text:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 7:30:26 PM UTC-6, Nikolai Kingsley wrote:

You might have trouble finding me too because I've changed locations.

Ace told me I was the two of clubs.

Well, I took three demotions.

Two of clubs to ace of clubs

Ace of clubs to King of Clubs

King of Clubs to Jack of Clubs.

In the process, I started thinking about the usual designations for J Q K and A.

They are often listed as 11 12 13 and 14.

I prefer 12.5, 15, 17.5 and 20.

Julian


subject: Re: What changed.

text:
one of the benefits of having a good standing with an agent is, they can
locate people for you.

which makes you... Jaqen H'ghar!

valar morghulis, etc.


author: nikolai kingsley

subject: Kristian Lahdensuo, can you translate this?

text:
http://olammi.iki.fi/olammi/timmy/Image004.jpg

"thnx" - beelz

nikolai
---
Oh how I await the day of the fist.
 - Beelz


subject: Re: Kristian Lahdensuo, can you translate this?

text:
"nikolai kingsley" <[email]> wrote in message
news:blm8da$dhgk6$[email]...

... fuck you!!!

it's 'thx'


author: Kristian Lahdensuo

text:
Sure: "DON'T LAUGH: your daughter could be in the back seat!"
Can I ask what is it about?


text:
*snickers* no.

nikolai
---
you know, if you put the front and back seats down, you can
fit a double-bed mattress in a '64 beetle. not easy to drive, though.


author: Ace Lightning

text:
nikolai kingsley wrote:

in the late 1950s to early 1960s, there was an American
car called the Nash Rambler. you could fold the front
seats all the way back, so that, together with the
back seat, they'd form a level upholstered surface. i
think the rationale was for people who were driving long
distances to be able to sleep in the car, instead of
having to pay for overnight accommodations. but i never
heard of anyone using it for that; instead, it was
universally known as the ultimate "make-out" car. naturally,
it was especially popular at drive-in movies.


text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I had a "long-bottomed" (or what the hell they are called?) Volvo with only
front seats last summer. I had mattress on back for multiple uses. Why don't
they have more of those, I'd rather lie behind if someone else is driving.
Had to give it away though, my fun car.


text:
Kristian Lahdensuo wrote:

is this basically what we Americans call a "pickup truck"?


text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
only
don't
driving.

No, with a closed back space.. I have never seen a Volvo with open back
(pickup) space.
I found its picture with google:
http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/5878A2D7-3F97-41B0-9535-5647BB7F1C86/0/history_volvo245_335x150.jpg
Same colour even..


text:
Kristian Lahdensuo wrote:
ttp://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/5878A2D7-3F97-41B0-9535-5647BB7F1C86/0/history_volvo245_335x150.jpg

oh, a "station wagon".

for some reason, people who used to buy station wagons
(which could carry a lot of cargo, or more people than
a usual car) now buy SUVs. these are bigger, and have
four-wheel drive, but they really don't carry more
cargo or people. SUVs were originally intended for
off-road driving - i suppose the Jeep was the original
"SUV". but the only time most of the newer generation
of SUVs ever drives "off the road" is if someone gets
a little clumsy and one tire goes off the driveway and
onto the lawn. they are pretty pointless, except as
part of the automobile dick-size wars.

upchuck green? *why*?


text:
Ace Lightning <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

I found its picture, don't mind me posing there:
http://www.ii2.org/image.php?img=525009

Isn't it mustard yello?


author: Gary Heston

text:
In article <[email]>,
Ace Lightning  <[email]> wrote:

http://www.geocities.com/ashvolvo/77240ute.html

Granted, it didn't come from the factory like that...

In Europe, they're known as "Estates". Kristian may have had the
special model (which I haven't seen elsewhere than the above
conversion) without the back seats.

I can out drive most SUVs in my '72 Volvo 145 in anything
other than straight line acceleration. Watching those clowns
back off going into an exit ramp is amusing.

Better than road-hazard orange.

Gary


text:
Ace Lightning wrote:

SUVs seem pretty standard family car. Maybe they are safe because they are
so big.

I always thought it was mustard yellow, but I'm somewhat color blind
(e.g. I don't see anything but spots here:
http://www.eyesearch.com/colorplate.7.jpg ).

It's pretty old car. I think that was popular color in early seventies.
It was so old that I could use old black plates, as nowdays they use white.
And it has only 3 characters as now there are 6.


text:
Kristian Lahdensuo wrote:

yes, in that picture, it definitely looks more like
mustard-yellow than pea-soup-green.

the house doesn't appear to be much bigger than the
car. but then again, the page consistently crashes
my Netscape (i had to view it in IE).


author: Matthew Skala

text:
In article <[email]>,
Gary Heston <[email]> wrote:

I'm offline just now and can't check URLs, but in my parents' early-1980s
Volvo station wagon, the back seats can be folded down so that you have a
two-seater with a lot of cargo space.  My impression is that that's a
standard feature rather than an option or a separate model.  My parents'
car also has a third fold-down seat in the very back (what would normally
be the trunk) which can hold two children facing backward, provided
they're small; that one is a factory option.  There is probably a Usenet
group somewhere with an FAQ explaining all of this.


text:
Gary Heston wrote:

interesting conversion... but don't they *sell* pickup
trucks in Europe? i could have sworn i saw Citroen or
Mercedes or some other European manufacturer's equivalents
of pickup trucks in a magazine.

usually, the seats fold down, converting the space
behind the front seat into a cargo area. that's what
made station wagons so useful - you could seat maybe
nine people in them, or you could carry large bulky
cargo, depending on your needs.

i can out-drive any SUV in my '92 VW Jetta with
front-wheel drive. but, as i said up-thread, that's
because i know how to drive in bad weather. my father
made sure i learned how to handle slippery road
conditions - he taught me how to be as safe as possible
in just about any circumstances on the road.

i'm still looking for metalflake purple.


author: George William Herbert

text:
Gary Heston <[email]> wrote:

Stock, or ... enhanced?

I learned to drive on one of those.  White, wagon.

Of course, it's the one Dad had been tinkering with since
he got it.  He got it when my brother was born, because having
two kids meant that they needed a 'sensible family car',
but somehow it didn't feel right compared to the Porsche
he'd driven since college, so he... improved.  Did I mention
he raced cars in college?

I think the aftermarket parts company was called IT or
something like that.  Factory spec rally suspension package?
Check.  Race car clutch and transmission upgrade?  Check.
Racing spec tires?  Check.  Aftermarket carb off a US car
manufacturer large bore motor?  Check.  Bored out cylinders
and oversize piston rings?  Check.  Bored out head, done by
hand by dad with a dremel over the course of a month or so
in the corner of the living room, hunched over it gleefully
cackling?  Check.  Factory racing spec valves?  Check.
Until a brand new factory racing valve broke, and then
the hot motor was all pronged.

Enough power to drag race?  No.  Enough power and cornering to ...
well, let's put it this way.  Pass George Lucas' Ferrarri on
Lucas Valley Road in Marin County, with 2 adults 2 kids
2 large dogs and the rest of the car full of luggage?
No sweat.  I waved, Lucas looked very confused, for the second
or so before we were ahead and lost him in the next curve.
Chase Porsche 944's up and down Highway 1? Oh, yeah.
Highway 17 at 75, except for those two really tight
corners?  Bring it on.

The only problem was that by 320,000 miles, half of which
was back country road driving at rally speeds with heavy
loads in the car, the body lost some of its stiffness,
we had cracked suspension A-arms, and there wasn't anything
to do about it that would keep it performing like that.

I suspect that car has now gone on to car heaven,
but its spirit lives on, hauntingly showing up as
the white ghost it was, in badly driven sports cars'
rearview mirrors when they are driving Lucas Valley Road
too slowly.  It will flip its headlights a couple of
times and then pass them on a straight stretch that
the lousy driver didn't know was coming up, coming out
of the apex of the entry curve to the straight perfectly
and zipping past them before they realize it's a pass,
a chill zooming down their spine as they realize they
can see through it, for the second before it enters
the corner ahead and dissapears again, only ghostly
taillights braking into the entrance of the corner
and then smoothly rolling into the apex of the turn...

                                  -george
                                       Eventually Conan earned a crown
                                       of his own, but that is another story.


text:
Kristian Lahdensuo wrote:

people (mostly upper-middle-class suburban mommies)
*FEEL* that they are somehow safer driving an SUV.
the size is one factor, of course, but they also
erroneously believe that four-wheel drive will give
them better traction on icy or wet pavement. actually,
about all that 4WD is good for is to provide more
pulling power in deep snow, or in mud; it has very
little to do with tires slipping on a slick surface.

many a time my front-wheel-drive sedan has out-performed
the SUVs around me on the road, during ice-storms or
shallow accumulations of snow. but most of this is
because i know the correct ways to handle the car under
such conditions. heaven forbid, though, that these
soccer moms should have to actually *LEARN TO DRIVE*.

the photo of the car looks pea-soup green to me - granted,
it's a yellowish green. but i can see how someone with
red/green color blindness might have a problem with the color.

i don't think that shade of green was *ever* a popular color...


text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I though so, maybe it's the pea-soup-green that reminds me of mustard
yellow, not vice versa.

It works fine with Opera.


text:
In article <bn29b9$3vd$[email]>,
Matthew Skala <[email]> wrote:

Yes, my 145 does that too. However, the car used for the conversion was
described as a "van" which "came from the factory with only 2 seats,
rear firewall and flat floor in the back." That leads me to believe that
it wasn't your average 245 wagon.

Alt.autos.volvo

Gary


text:
In article <bm32qv$81n$[email]>,
George William Herbert <[email]> wrote:

Stock. B20F, 4-speed.

That was probably IPD http://www.ipdusa.com

Nice story; unfortunantly most of the good parts
for the 140 series are no longer available. Not
to mention regular parts for stuff like the FI
system...

Wish I could find that car and salvage parts.

Gary


author: Blanka

text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Haha, one time we were off-roading in Washington Park, and it was raining
and there was a bit of mud. My friend had his car with some people in it and
I had mine with some people in it and we were chasing each other around the
pedestrian areas. He ended up getting stuck in the mud, but my four-wheel
drive got me out. I think we eventually went back and helped him push his
car out of the mud.

// u l i e n


author: John F. Winston

text:
Subject: The Space People And Earth For The Last 18 Million Years.
April 1, 1999.

  No, this is not an April Fools Joke.  My friend, who I will call
S D, read one of my postings that mentioned Dr. George Hunt Williamson
and his book Secret Places Of The Lion.  She sent me the book and
now I'll put down some excerpts from it.  Here we go.

.....................................................................
.....................................................................

  It is the purpose of this work to show that the race spirit incarnated
or ensouled itself into race leaders of the dim past..these leaders
constitute the "Goodly Company."  This band is composed of men and
women from other worlds in time and space.  They originally arrived on
earth to assist mankind here in its long climb from "beasthood" to
g-dhood."

  They migrated to earth--the "dark star"...planet of "sorrows"--about
eighteen million years ago and have worked ceaselessly and tirelessly
in their gigantic task of acting as the Creator's mentors to a backward,
fallen race.  They have come into life as Osiris...Apollo...Mercury...
Thoth..the legendary go-s of the ancients, and later incarnated as
rulers of the people.

  Baal, Bacchus, Moloch, and other false -ods were nothing but
pure earth deities, and always became the ruling hierarchy in the
pantheon of g-ds after a "Golden Age" had gone out in a bloodbath.
Great universal truth was brought to mankind through the
instrumentality of beings from more enlightened worlds, and an
age where "men talked with the angels" inevitably followed,
only to decline and fall in decay when the mentorship was removed.

  The "Goodly Company"-- "Wanderers" who volunteer to come into
earthly existence--time and time again have assisted mankind for
thousands of years in all ages.  They would declare universal
wisdom and truth at a certain period of history when man had been
prepared to receive it and then they would withdraw for a time to
see what man would do with the new-found knowledge.  Thus, the
rises and plateaux of man's cultural history emerged.

  Legends of earth are rich in knowledge of the "Star People"...
the "Above People"...the "Go-s who came from the Sun or descended from
Heaven to walk among mortals."  Behind these so-called myths, which at
first appear to be the imagining and fantasies of superstitious people,
we find a logical answer to why man adored the immortals of Olympus and
other fabled abodes of the great -ods.  We discover the startling truth
behind the tales of the g-ds of classical mythology!

  It is also the purpose of this work to show that there are fantastic
historical treasures which constitute a great legacy for mankind
hidden in secret chambers under some of the wonders of the world!

  The "four corners" of the earth enclose timeless records that for
millennia have been hidden from the eyes of seeking men.  These
priceless accounts of the struggles and intrigues of this planet are
now coming to light--the SECRET PLACES OF THE LION are opening
in the vibrations of a N-w A-e!

  The negative, opposing force which always intends to hold man
back and keep him for ever in the dark chains of brutishness and
beastliness has been behind the destruction of the great treasurehouses
of remote antiquity.  Examples would be the destruction of the Aton
Tablets in Akhnaton's record sanctum by the evil Amun priesthood after
the the great Pharaoh's assassination, the burning of the Alexandrian
library by fanatics in A.D. 387, the largest and most famous repository
of antiquity, containing over seven hundred thousand volumes, comprising
most of the literary treasure of the ancient world, and inestimable
loss which brought about the "Dark Ages"; the total destruction of the
Aztec libraries, where priceless codices were ravaged with fire and
sword by Cortez in A.D. 1519 as as he sacrificed untold treasures to
greed and they were swallowed up in his incendiarism.

  Certain secret orders have always managed to salvage or save
universal truth, and on clay tablets, scrolls, and papyri they recorded
the truth, so that future man might know... and in the knowing,
the truth, would make him free from the bondage of untold ages.

  These records were hidden in tombs...secret chambers...caverns..
temple ruins...catacombs...and every secret recess and tunnel was
utilized.  These records deal with the Most Ancient Wisdom and will
be rediscovered in the years immediately ahead. These truths have
been secreted away--then discovered, only to be buried again after
they served their purpose of revealing that which was to be known
during a particular age and time in man's spiritual development.

  The author wishes to extend his appreciation to his wife for her
encouragement; and to Brother Philip, O.A., * of a monastery in the
Peruvian mountains who worked tirelessly amidst Cyclopean masonry
translating original, ancient records in the scriptorium there.
*  Amethystine Order.

Part 1.

John Winston. [email]


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: The Space People And Earth For The Last 18 Million Years.

text:
are aliens really real??

For the HOTTEST adult passwords check out:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/hotpasswords

In article <[email]>,
  "John F. Winston" <[email]> wrote:

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own


author: Sean B

text:
Can anyone tell me if this guy is for real?

"John F. Winston" wrote:


author: Joe Schlatter

text:
Mr. Winston:

Next time you visit your doc, tell him/her that the hallucinations have
returned and ask him/her to increase your meds.


author: Ken Anglesea

text:
On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:25:46 -0800, "John F. Winston"
<[email]> wrote:

LOL

Looking forward to Part 2.

-ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ -ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½
 D.R.Ken Anglesea. ROTFLMAO
 SAN. 92-01766-048.
Astrokenologist CON.SULKING Neumekenologist. S.N.I.P.
Atheist.
Gemini,12th house Air element,Masculine Mutable.
-ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½-ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½-ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½


text:
Now to say something in return.
On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Sean B wrote:
JW  I am real. If you don't believe me, pinch me.


author: Auld Chiel

subject: California, where your dollar don't go far. . .

text:
If you lived in San Jose, Ca. and made $30,000 a year and you moved
to  Las Vegas, Nevada you could maintain the same style of living
and make only $17,838 a year.

If you lived in Los Angeles, Ca. and made $30,000 a year and you
moved to Phoenix, Arizona you could maintain the same style of
living and make only $22,463 a year.

If you lived in Hayward Ca. and made $30,000 a year and you moved
to  Saint George Utah you could maintain the same style of living
and make only $19,463 a year.

The Bay Area's median home price in February was $485,980 as
compared to the rest of the nation at $138,800.

from: http://www.leavingcal.com/compare.shtml

 ------------------------------------------------------------
People who are willing to rely on the government to keep them
safe are pretty much standing on Darwin's mat, pounding on the
door, screaming `Take me, take me!'      -- Carl Jacobs


author: AA

subject: Re: California, where your dollar don't go far. . .

text:
[email] (Auld Chiel) wrote in news:[email]:

Depends on where you want to live. I was in Indiana and they got some
huge houses and a couple of acres for 250K. If you don't have to live in
Silicon Valley, I say get the hell out. Also, this place has cancer
thanks to the semiconductor industry and their chemicals. Everyone of my
neighbors has had one form of cancer or another. Low crime rate for a big
city though.


author: Don Homuth

text:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:07:34 -0700 (PDT), [email] (Auld Chiel)
wrote:

In neither place would making the amounts specified amount to much at
all.  Certainly not something that could be recommended.

Wouldn't want to live in either place, for any amount of money.

If you live in any major metropolitan area and moved to a small town
where property prices are lower, the same outcome would occur almost
everywhere in the nation.

Strange, idnit, that across the nation so few folks want to do that.
Which suggests that Something Else might be motivating folks.

Which explains why Bay Aryans sell out at a huge profit, and go live
somewhere else.  It does not explain, however, why the folks buying
the property at those inflated prices do that.

Which is the proper perspective.


author: gatt

text:
"Auld Chiel" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

My friend's mom was relocated from Beaverton to Palo Alto by Intel, who is
paying $3,000/month for her 700-square-foot apartment.

My friend, who also works for Intel as a chemical engineer, owns a ~$200,000
home in Aloha. Her mother said you couldn't find a house like that in P.A.
for under a million.

Screw that!

-c


author: Joyce Reynolds-Ward

text:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:07:34 -0700 (PDT), [email] (Auld Chiel)
wrote:
snip

Whoever wrote this hasn't been to St. George recently.  St. George
property in St. George proper is--well--on a par with PDX prices.

Been there.  Read the newspaper ads.

jrw


author: Dave Thompson

text:
"Don Homuth" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

I guess you are one of those Oregonians who thinks anything over 80 degrees
is "miserable".

Months at a stretch with no sun is so much better, now, isn't it?


author: Geoff Miller

text:
gatt <[email]> writes:

That's expensive even by Palo Alto standards.  Either Intel
leased a block of premium apartments somewhere and got royally
screwed on a "corporate rate," or your friend's mom found
her own lodging but didn't bother searching very far...as
in, "beyond the Palo Alto city limits."  There are much
cheaper options not all that far away, in either direction.

Where do people get this idea that they have to live in the
same municipality where they work?  I remember the time,
about a decade ago, when I told someone that I worked in
Menlo Park and lived in Mountain View -- which was all of
a ten- to fifteen- minute run down the freeway, depending
on traffic.  He gave me a confused look and asked,
"Wull...how come you don't live in Menlo Park, where your
job is?"  As though I was somehow obligated to go through
the hassle of moving, and to a place I could barely have
afforded to live in, just to be in the same ZIP code as
my workplace!

Unfortunately, the Bay Area is where the greatest concentration
of computer-industry jobs are in the United States.  Of course,
wages tend to be commensurate with the cost of living.  If they
weren't, companies like Intel wouldn't be able to get people to
move here and work for them.

If someone can find such a job in a reasonably desirable locale
with a lower cost of living, more power to them -- but then, the
wages would undoubtedly be lower in proportion.

Geoff


author: Jon

text:
gatt <[email]> wrote in message
news:fYiPa.65389$[email]...
~$200,000

My dad lives in Fremont. His 700 sq.ft condo is worth almost $200k.  He paid
$135k about 15 years ago.

And its a 25 year old apartment building that "went condo"...


text:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:57:53 -0700, "Dave Thompson"
<[email]> wrote:

I don't live in Hot Places.  I don't vacation in Hot Places.  I avoid
traveling through Hot Places.  I've been to LV at 117F,
Phoenix/Scottsdale at 111F, Central CA at 104F and even Washington
DeeCee at 104f + 90% humidity.  I spent 20 months in Viet Nam, where
temps got well into the 110s, humidity would have, if it were
possible, dust would blow in your face while you were standing in mud
up to your knees, and air pollution came in large, fast-moving chunks.
Didn't care for that either.

I don't like Hot Places.  Never have -- not going to start now.

As a native of Canuckistan, I come by it honestly.

When I want sun in the winter, I can drive to Bend and go skiing.

Simpler, cheaper, more pleasant and less bother.  And on the Wet Side
of the Cascades, I don't have to shovel rain either!

It all works out.

The comparisons provided in the referenced post obviously come from a
CA-ian.


author: Lobby Dosser

text:
"Dave Thompson" <[email]> wrote in
news:[email]:

Geez Dave, first it's gas pumping, then it's moron Oregonians and now
it's the climate. Why ARE you here?

LD


author: The Sanity Inspector

text:
Like wow, Scooby, look what [email] (Geoff Miller) just
wrote!

Here in Atlanta, we err the other way: commuting from the neighboring
time-zone to downtown.  Until you've gone bumper-to-bumper at 5:30am
down a roaring twelve-lane expressway, packed in on all sides with
your fellow sleep-deprived, coffee-gulping, newspaper-reading,
makeup-applying commuters, you've never gotten the full commute
experience!

In Atlanta, this is indeed true--though "proportion" is the key word.


author: Hal Lillywhite

text:
Don Homuth <[email]> wrote in message news:<[email]>...

Ditto for me.  60 degrees (Farenheit) is about right.

...

Stop the presses!  Don and I agree on something!  :-)

I come by it honestly from the other end having been raised in New
Mexico.  I decided I wanted greenery and cooler weather.

You bett'cha.  Bring on the clouds and rain.   I'm tired of this
hellish weather, it's what the old time preachers used to threaten
people with in the next life if they didn't behave in this one.


text:
Like wow, Scooby, look what Don Homuth <[email]> just wrote!

Northern transplants to Atlanta love to jeer at our unfamiliarity with
living with snow more than three days a year.  But we get our revenge
along about late April, early May, when the temp starts creeping up
over 72 or 73.  You'll be sure to hear a goose-like Noo Joisey accent,
squonking, "GWODD!!  Is it always this *HWOT* down here?!"

No.  If you can breathe, it isn't hot.


author: Andy Walton

text:
In article <[email]>, The Sanity Inspector
<[email]> wrote:

This summer is depriving me of my annual schadenfreude at the expense
of sweltering Yankees. I mean, here we are in mid-July, and have we hit
90 even once?


author: Brett

text:
"Andy Walton" <[email]> wrote:
| In article <[email]>, The Sanity Inspector
| <[email]> wrote:
|
| > Like wow, Scooby, look what Don Homuth <[email]> just wrote!
| >
| >
| > Northern transplants to Atlanta love to jeer at our unfamiliarity
with
| > living with snow more than three days a year.  But we get our
revenge
| > along about late April, early May, when the temp starts creeping up
| > over 72 or 73.  You'll be sure to hear a goose-like Noo Joisey
accent,
| > squonking, "GWODD!!  Is it always this *HWOT* down here?!"
|
| This summer is depriving me of my annual schadenfreude at the expense
| of sweltering Yankees.

Are you wearing a jacket when you do that?

| I mean, here we are in mid-July, and have we hit
| 90 even once?

Yes.


author: Andrew

text:
In atl.general Andy Walton <[email]> wrote:

They said on the news that this past June was only the sixth one in the
past 100 years during which the temperature didn't reach 90 degrees.

Andrew


author: Ron Hammon

text:
Andrew wrote:
snip

Oh, my God!  It must be that dastardly global warming!  (Note that a
high altitude experiment several years ago measured the coldest weather
on record.  This discovery was countered by the explanation that it was
probably due to global warming.)


author: Baxter

text:
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software  - Baxter Codeworks  www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Ron Hammon" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
Actually, a lot of those "cold" temperature measurements have been due to
miscalibrated instruments, and sometimes they're measuring the wrong thing
(like specific lightwaves).


text:
In article <[email]>, Ron Hammon
<[email]> wrote:

That's right. The theory of global warming is conclusively disproven if
any place on Earth gets colder over any period of time.


text:
Baxter wrote:

Do you think that there would be the same degree of doubt if the
measurements indicated a warmer temperture?


text:
Andy Walton wrote:

No, you can't "prove" a negative (DISprove).  Proof is SUPPOSED to be
easier.  But, one must first have access to reliable evidence rather
than Chicken Little predictions based on the worst sort of soft science.

(On a similar subject, I remember when, in about 1973, in the wake of an
apparently endless stream of revelations of "harmful" products, a
college professor gave a class the task of choosing everyday products
and developing papers about how items would harm the environment.  One
(notable) student choose Right Guard spray deoderant.  His proposal was
that the flourocarbon propellant would rise through the atmosphere and
attack the ozone layer.  It was tounge-in-cheek.  Who would have
imagined that world leaders would gather, decades later, to restrict
even Halon, a major blessing to the world, to ease an imagined effect of
a "blackboard" idea?  "Science" has gone to hell in a handbasket.)


text:
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software  - Baxter Codeworks  www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Ron Hammon" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
the
weather
was
to
thing
The only "doubt" is that raised by "tobacco scientists" hired by the Coal
and Oil industry.


author: *Hemidactylus*

subject: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
We are getting close to the first official Harter Rememberance Day
(6-29). What we do with it is up to us. Harter was a cool guy IMO.
Anything works! A punfest would suffice.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk.origins/p2cGrPaNbK0/fp9MZK8i7OEJ

--
*Hemidactylus*- Hey, let's be careful out there (HSB):
http://siteinspector.comodo.com/
http://csi.websense.com/
http://safeweb.norton.com/
http://www.virustotal.com/en/#url


author: Mitchell Coffey

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
On 6/17/2013 9:05 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

I don't believe in puns.

Mitchell Coffey


author: jillery

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:05:27 -0400, *Hemidactylus*
<[email]> wrote:

I'll think harter about suggestions.


author: James Beck

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:46:00 -0400, Mitchell Coffey
<[email]> wrote:

Even very bad puns believe in you, Mr. Coffee.


author: John S. Wilkins

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
jillery <[email]> wrote:

Rick and roll!
--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre


author: Bob Casanova

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:09:57 +1000, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by [email] (John S.
Wilkins):

You're all hart. And the celebration has started...
--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
 the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov


author: Walter Bushell

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Bob Casanova <[email]> wrote:

We'll have to try hearter, boys.

--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
 me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx


author: Burkhard

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
On Jun 18, 9:22ï¿½pm, Walter Bushell <[email]> wrote:

A orta be able to come up with some heart puns, but my mind is blank


author: August Rode

subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
On Thursday, June 20, 2013 6:24:59 PM UTC+2, Burkhard wrote:

The gods tell me that there are some good puns in your future. Trust me... I'm an auricle.


subject: Re: mark your calenders (Harter Day)

text:
In article <[email]>,
 August Rode <[email]> wrote:

Puns in that vein are in vain.

--
Gambling with Other People's Money is the meth of the fiscal industry.
 me -- in the spirit of Karl and Groucho Marx


author: betweentheeyes

subject: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

Why is the President left off this map?  He hates the Bill of
Rights.


author: Stompanoogie

subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
On Feb 7, 7:07 am, "betweentheeyes"
<[email]> wrote:

The SPLC is a left wing HATE group.
This is another example of radical left wing hypocrisy.


author: deep

subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 07:07:11 -0500, "betweentheeyes"
<[email]> wrote:

You're a liar.  STFU.


author: Wayne

subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
"betweentheeyes"  wrote in message news:kf05cj$kmj$[email]...

So, what is a "hate group"?
Who determines what a "hate group" is?
If you hate MFs who make up stupid statistics, does that make you part of a
"hate group"?


author: Scout

subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
"deep" wrote in message news:[email]...

Then you should follow your own standard and STFU you hypocrite.


subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
"deep" wrote in message
news:[email]...

On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 07:07:11 -0500, "betweentheeyes"

The current Executive Branch is a threat to the Constitution.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,
shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon
probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly
describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be
seized.

    The Internal Revenue (this that pencil pushing agency that
collects taxes)
    http://www.irs.gov/irm/part9/irm_09-002-003.html
    9.2.3.2.2  (07-16-2002)
    Levels of Force
    1.
    The Treasury Policy Use of Force Levels on an escalating scale
are:

    A.
    weaponless control
    B.
    intermediate weapon control
    C.
    deadly force

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise
infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand
Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the
Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor
shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in
jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal
case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life,
liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private
property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/05/16855539-judge-jury-and-executioner-legal-experts-fear-implications-of-white-house-drone-memo?lite

    "Attorney General Eric Holder, in a talk at Northwestern
University
    Law School in March, endorsed the constitutionality of targeted
    killings of Americans provided that the government determines
such
    an individual poses "an imminent threat of violent attack."

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed.

President Obama, March 3, 2011
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20038924-503544.html
"The Second Amendment in this country is part of our Constitution
and the president of the United States is bound by our
Constitution," he said. "So I believe in the Second Amendment. It
does provide for Americans the right to bear arms for their
protection, for their safety, for hunting, for a wide range of uses.
That does not mean that we cannot constrain gun runners from
shipping guns into Mexico."

Operation Fast and Furious timeline:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gun-running-timeline-how-doj-s-operation-fast-and-furious-unfolded

September 2009 - Jan. 8, 2010: A Jan. 8, 2010 briefing paper from
the ATF Phoenix Field Division Group VII says: "This investigation
has currently identified more than 20 individual connected straw
purchasers." It further says: "To date (September 2009 - present)
this group has purchased in excess of 650 firearms (mainly AK-47
variants) for which they have paid cash totaling more than
$350,000."

The current Executive Branch is a threat to the Constitution.


author: Klaus Schadenfreude

subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
LOL

Wow. You had to muster ALL of your considerable debate skills for THAT
retort!


author: ReneMol

subject: Re: Are you on the "hate map" ?

text:
"Wayne"  wrote in message news:kf0lgp$htu$[email]...

"betweentheeyes"  wrote in message news:kf05cj$kmj$[email]...

So, what is a "hate group"?
Who determines what a "hate group" is?

#####

Who do you love?
  The opposite is a hate 'group' that hates "just because" they dislike
something for some stump stupid personal reason, gather in a bar, drink
Coors, belch, fart, and trade lies until they come to a stupid conclusion...
Liberals!


author: Mike Flannigan

subject: Re: Liberals Also Trying to *Impose* Their Morality on Others!

text:
"Cleopatra" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Amen, and well said. It was the leftist SC that imposed it's morality
concerning the abortion issue with Roe. With that decision they pretended to
play god, and decided that the public morality was wrong. That the unborn
have no intrinsic value, and can be legally disposed of at will in the first
trimester. Since then they've expanded their moral dictates to include the
third trimester, and for any reason.

They don't bother to persuade the public that they are right, but instead,
just impose. And then lie and claim the constitution justifies it.


author: Ray Fischer

text:
Mike Flannigan <[email]> wrote:

An obvious lie.  People have not been forced to get abortions.
Only your perverted need to subjugate women has been thwarted.


text:
"Ray Fischer" <[email]> wrote in message
news:43d1a328$0$58046$[email]...

You obviously can't discuss the subject without ignoring what has been said
and so invoke the stupid idea that all this involves is a desire to control
women. I guess any law prohibiting killing is only motivated by a desire to
control rather than a desire to preserve a human life. Your argument is
stupid and dishonest, and an obvious attempt to subjugate the discussion
because you simply have no argument.

You parrot what you've been told to say without argument. And simply follow
an ideology because you lack the ability to think for yourself.

Forcing the legality of destroying healthy, viable fetuses and for any
reason is the imposition of a morality held by a small faction of the
radical left and forced upon the public at large. Plain and simple. Lie and
claim that it isn't with your learned, stupid shit diversions all you want.

The reason your masters tell you what to think concerning abortion is
because they think it gets them the women's vote, and Roe set the prescient
for the judicial activism upon which their power depends. The stupid shit
you mindlessly parrot like a good toady parishioner has nothing to do with
it.


author: james g. keegan jr.

text:
In article <8RAAf.27852$[email]>,
 "Mike Flannigan" <[email]> wrote:

projection isn't healthy, mikey.


text:
Mike Flannigan <[email]> wrote:

And so the pro-liar retreats rather than deal with the lie.


author: Paul Anderson

text:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 01:03:00 GMT, "Mike Flannigan"
<[email]> wrote:

...

No.  Forcing the legality of destroying healthy, viable fetuses and
for any reason is a Pro-Life fantasy.  It does not exist in reality.


text:
"james g. keegan jr." <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Where is your argument retard?


text:
"Ray Fischer" <[email]> wrote in message
news:43d2e89a$0$58080$[email]...

Go fuck yourself Fischer. You and most of the other shit for brains in this
thread are nothing but goggle groups trolls searching for the word
'abortion' so you can chime in and start repeating the same old stupid
mindless shit over and over and over like a brainless machine. You don't
give a fuck about the truth or addressing what is being said to you because
you are too goddamned stupid to engage anyone.

Go - fuck - yourself.


text:
"Paul Anderson" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Yes the fuck it does you immoral lying lowlife.


text:
In article <cSTAf.30589$[email]>,
 "Mike Flannigan" <[email]> wrote:

you parrot what you've been told to say without argument.


text:
In article <b%TAf.30591$[email]>,
 "Mike Flannigan" <[email]> wrote:

hey you just said the same thing to me!!! don't they have more than
one verse scratched into those pews?


text:
Mike Flannigan <[email]> wrote:

The usual response of the control freak when the truth doesn't go his way.

When do you start killing people who don't obey?


text:
Mike Flannigan <[email]> wrote:

Prove it.

How long before you start killing people because of your hate?


text:
In article <q0UAf.30592$[email]>,
 "Mike Flannigan" <[email]> wrote:

hey! who do you think he is: one of s=those scumball, lying rc
bishops covering up for one of his pedophile priests?


author: BOB

text:
"james g. keegan jr." <[email]> wrote in news:jgkeegan-
[email]:

Mike Flappinggums covers up for them too.  Wonder why?


author: Rocky Numan

subject: Neighbours from Hell

text:
I have created my first web site, my story of living with the neighbours
from hell.
Please visit hhtp://mysite.freeserve.com/york.stage

Now, what would you do with these people......?


author: crazee

subject: Re: Neighbours from Hell

text:
Hello , I have just read your message regarding neighbours from hell.
And I think I could start my own one, on one side of my house i have
the Bradies who have carved crocodiles in their house and have been
known to try and poison my dog. On the other side I have a family full
of heroin addicts. Across the street stays a very old man who never
takes his hat off and stays with a midle aged man who is not a
relative!
Just thought Id let you know that I do sypathise!
claire


author: Lazarus Armageddon

subject: Re: Neighbours from Hell

text:
[email] (crazee) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

My goodness, Claire...You *do* have it tough, don't you?

Imagine living next door to an entire household of heroin
addicts...Grandma, the two-year-old and the dog included!

And across the street is a man who lives with another man who isn't a
relative!...You don't think the old man might be...<shudder>...renting
a room out to the other guy, do you!?...Why, that's practicaly
*communism!*

Finally, on the *other* side, live people who...<horror>...have been
to Africa!

I think you're in a worryingly dangerous situation there...Next thing
you know, Al Qaida will be targetting you and your family

If you want *my* advice, I think you should take a look at some
survivalist web-sites (or borrow your paw's collection of
magazines)...They'll show you how to make your trailer bomb-proof and
gas-proof...

Then I think you should stay there until you're seventeen before
sticking your head outside again to see if civlisation has survived
the onslaught your neighbours are clearly going to unleash.

Remember...The World will be in a bad state then...

...You may see people drinking openly on the streets...or smoking in
public...There may *even* be a black president!...

...and it will need the ministrations of a seriously-minded teenager,
such as yourself, well-versed in the ways of corruption and evil...

People will need to be told what to do...and *you're* gonna have to be
the one to tell them...You and your family may even have to repopulate
America...so be prepared...stock up on plenty of preparation-H

Good luck!


author: Sweet Suger

subject: Re: Neighbours from Hell

text:
test
On 3 Mar 2003 07:30:12 -0800, [email] (Tania) wrote:


subject: Re: Neighbours from Hell

text: On 3 Mar 2003 07:30:12 -0800, [email] (Tania) wrote:


author: lizc

subject: Re: Neighbours from Hell

text:
[email] (Lazarus Armageddon) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

bad neighbours should all be put in worst areas to all live
together.Let them terrorise each other instead of hassiling good clean
living people.If they want to behave in an anti-social manner let them
carry on but don't let respectable people suffer in the process.


subject: Re: Neighbours from Hell

text:
[email] (lizc) wrote in message news:<[email]>...

True enough...but sharing accommadation with a same-sex non-reletive
is hardly terrorising the neighbours...nor is having carved crocodiles
within the confines of your own home.

As for the heroin addicts...well, I suspect a little neurotic,
exaggeration may have taken place.


author: Kent Paul Dolan

subject: Re: 3D (4x4x4) Noughts and Crosses / Tic Tac Toe

text:
"John Lawson" <[email]> wrote:

Less than eight hours on a time-shared IBM 360/65, since that is all the
time my buddy who was the machine operator and let me use stray time on
the machine, could have made available, is the best I can tell you, (and
it may have been _much_ less, like five minutes, but things at such a
distant remove grow fuzzy).

Indeed.  Fill someone's coffee cup with chad, cover the cup with stiff
paper, invert the cup onto their desk, remove the stiff paper carefully,
clean up any stray evidence, wait nearby for the sound of a scream of
rage or surprise.

xanthian.

[There were also rubber-band powered chad launchers that sat peacefully
in a desk drawer until the victim opened the drawer, and so on.

Even back then, we programmers had entirely too much free time on our
hands.]


author: the salmon fry former ....

subject: 4D: (4x4x4x4) Tippy toes

text:
Tread lightly lest ye disturb the near-symmetry!

  (-1 0 0 0 )  ( 0 1 0 0 )  ( 0 0 1 0)  ( 0 0 0 1 )
  ( 0 1 0 0 )  (-1 0 0 0 )  ( 0 0 0 0)  ( 0 0 0 0 )
  ( 0 0 1 0 )  ( 0 0 0 0 )  (-1 0 0 0)  ( 0 0 0 0 )
  ( 0 0 0 1 )  ( 0 0 0 0 )  ( 0 0 0 0)  (-1 0 0 0 )


author: blair[no spam]@world.std.com (Blair P. Houghton

subject: Re: 4D: (4x4x4x4) Tippy toes

text:
the salmon fry former .... <[email]> wrote:

Tensor, tensor, burning bright,
In mathematical night,
What immetric rule or spline
Could bend thy numbered symmetry?

				--Blair
				  "With apologies and beak to
				   W. Blake."

P.S.  Whoa...  http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Jardin/1414/


subject: Re: 4D: (4x4x4x4) Tippy toes

text:
"the salmon fry former ...." <[email]> wrote:

Lemme guess, you just decoded the dinosaur footprint messages that will
save humankind, and they said????

xanthian.

They said "tiptoe through the tulips"?  We are in such deep kaka.


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: Thoughts on how welfare makes us poor

text:
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 22:37:45 -0400, Just Cocky <[email]> wrote:

That is flat false.

The climate is one reason.  And illegals definitely prefer the USA
because Canada's greater respect for law makes it harder for them to
work illegally.

Many Canadian doctors do want to go to the USA long enough to get rich
and retire in Canada.  But some Canadian doctors who went to the USA
are going back to Canada to practice because they find they can't
stomach putting profit before patients.

-- Roy L


author: Brian Claypool

text:
[email] wrote:

I doubt that.  I believe most Canadian doctors who have practiced in the
U.S. and then returned to Canada have done so because they get tired of
working long hours and constantly being on-call.

IOW, it's much easier to work 9 to 5 and have your weekends free.

I know doctors here in the U.S. who easily make $200,000 per day when
they are working (before taxes and expenses), but they work long, long days.

Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian


author: The Trucker

text:
"Brian Claypool" <[email]> wrote in message
news:eHigg.799$[email]...

And if that makes sense to you then your only hope is a brain transplant.


author: Greg G.

subject: Re: Happy Birthday

text:
On Apr 20, 2:59ï¿½pm, odin <[email]> wrote:

Now who coulda knowed it was my birthday? Especially when it t'ain't.
  --Yosemite Sam


author: Mitchell Coffey

subject: Re: Happy Birthday

text:
On Apr 20, 2:59ï¿½pm, odin <[email]> wrote:

Yeah, I know.  Asshole.

Mitchell Coffey


author: odin

subject: Re: Happy Birthday

text:
On Apr 20, 2:30ï¿½pm, Mitchell Coffey <[email]> wrote:

I guess you don't like Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, born
April 20, 1920 (age 90 today).


author: John Wilkins

subject: Re: Happy Birthday

text:
In article
<[email]>,
odin <[email]> wrote:

I loved his work in Led Zepplin.


author: Christopher Denney

subject: Re: Happy Birthday

text:
On Apr 20, 6:53ï¿½pm, odin <[email]> wrote:

and, according to famousbirthdays.com:
  20 - Apr - 1976   Joey Lawrence
  20 - Apr - 1972   Carmen Electra
  20 - Apr - 1961   Don Mattingly
  20 - Apr - 1959   Clint Howard
  20 - Apr - 1951   Luther Vandross
  20 - Apr - 1949   Jessica Lange
  20 - Apr - 1941   Ryan O'Neal
  20 - Apr - 1937   George Takei
  20 - Apr - 1924   Nina Foch
  20 - Apr - 1920   John Paul Stevens
  20 - Apr - 1908   Lionel Hampton
  20 - Apr - 1893   Harold Lloyd
  20 - Apr - 1893   Joan Mirï¿½
  20 - Apr - 1889   Adolf Hitler


author: Peter Terpstra (獅心彼得

text:
CCTV Says Lhasa People Are “Happiest”
By Woeser

It all started with a telephone interview with foreign media during which I was asked my opinion on Lhasa being
rated the "city with the happiest people”. Receiving this unanticipated “gift” right in the beginning of the New
Year represented the epitome of irony and I tried hard to imagine the reaction of many Lhasa people when
confronted with this. I laughed and asked back, living under gunpoint day and night, being followed by snipers
even when going to the temple to pray, how can there be any sense of happiness?

A few days later, this absolutely absurd news was released: CCTV’s financial channel, 'CCTV Economic Life
Survey' announced the results of a happiness measuring survey in which Lhasa won the first prize and was
awarded the "2010 City With the Happiest People". I remembered that it was not the first time that Lhasa was
considered the "happiest”. I did a quick search on the internet and found that this was a survey carried out by
China’s largest media corporation and had been running for the fifth year in a row; Lhasa had been called the
“happiest” for the fourth time in a row, it had always been the first out of a hundred Chinese cities. The only
one time when Lhasa did not come in first, it was still rated third and wasn’t this one time in 2008? As everyone
knows, in March 2008 the protests that erupted and spread over the whole of Tibet started in Lhasa, so if Lhasa
people were all this “happy”, why would they protest?

In 2008, Lhasa people may not have been the "happiest" in 2009 and 2010, however, they were the "happiest”
again, this is really rather peculiar. The Han Chinese have a saying to criticise those who forget the lessons
learned from history, to "forget the pain once the wound is healed”. Is it possible that after such a short time,
Lhasa people left behind the gory terror of 2008 and their faces were wreathed in smiles again? Also, in 2008,
Lhasa people may not have been the “happiest”, yet, in the last two years, they were the "happiest”. Since
they are happier than so many other people from many other Chinese cities, why do they still take to the
streets?

Last year I spent over three months in Lhasa and I witnessed first hand that Lhasa was a city under military
control. One day, in a residential area in the eastern part of the city, I first saw a propaganda vehicle equipped
with big loudspeakers and decorated with red banners slowly passing by; from the speakers came a song by
Tseten Dolma, a singer hired by the authorities: “No matter how bitter Tibetan people’s lives were, no matter
how bitter, bitterness had an end, the bitterness has turned to sweetness after the Communist Party came,
the bitterness has turned to sweetness after the Communist Party came..." and what followed were over ten
vehicles slowly driving past: a police van; then five armoured cars inscribed with the letters XZ and the numbers
001-005 drove passed, each had four snipers standing on top pointing their machine guns at the road ahead of
them; then five minibuses filled with masked soldiers carrying guns followed; and finally, two armoured cars
inscribed with the numbers 006 and 007 passed by.

A Tibetan intellectual, and also a retired cadre, said to me: “Over the past two years, Lhasa has more or less
turned into ‘Baghdad’, with the Han Chinese in the western suburbs of course being the ‘settlers’. There are
armed soldiers everywhere; even on the roofs around the Jokhang Temple we find snipers day and night. Do
they point their guns at protesters? They obviously point them at an entire nationality. It can be said that
Tibetans really have a strong aversion to this government; they only refrain from speaking out because of fear.
Support from the people cannot be gained anymore, the unity between Tibetans and Han Chinese will never be
achieved”.

I also heard of two Tibetans committing suicide. One of them was a young doctor from a hospital in Lhundrup
County in Lhasa. He had felt deeply upset and depressed because in March 2008, during the protests, many
monks and lay people had been arrested, so last year during the Tibetan New Year, he hanged himself in a hotel
room in Lhasa. The other one was an over thirty-year-old Buddhist monk of Lhasa’s Gyudmed Tantric School. He
felt great pain because he was forced to undergo “patriotic education” on a daily basis. He requested to go
into retreat in the mountains, when this was not granted by his work team, in August last year he plunged into
the river and drowned.

Perhaps these two examples are not sufficient to show that Lhasa people are not “happy”. I still remember the
journalist from Phoenix TV, Hong Kong, who was standing in the streets of Lhasa on the fifth day after March
14, boasting that life in the city had already returned to normal; yet the so-called Lhasa people she interviewed
were in fact all Han Chinese, thus leaving the impression that Lhasa had already turned into a harmonious Han
city. This journalist was obviously being very selective. She did not take notice of Tibetans living in Lhasa;
instead she portrayed the Han Chinese she interviewed as indigenous Lhasa people. This is why I think that
perhaps those “Lhasa people” who are the "happiest” according to the CCTV survey are not actually Tibetans.

http://www.highpeakspureearth.com/2011/02/cctv-says-lhasa-people-are-happiest-by.html


author: lo yeeOn

subject: Guns will disappear when NED/CIA money stops flowing to Da Lama, Liu Xiaobo, et al Re: CCTV Says Lhasa People Are Happiest - by Woeser for Radio Free Asia

text:
Nobody should have to go to an ornate contraption, aka a temple, to
pray, just ask any protestant Christian!

Guns will disappear in Lhasa when NED/CIA money stops flowing to
people like Da Lama, Liu Xiaobo, et al.

For the rest of my comments (with as many typos removed as possible),
please read below.

In article <2039739.0xQCEvomIN@Dharma>,
Peter Terpstra<[email]> wrote:

A poll is in general skewed by the set of criteria the pollster uses
to measure where the members of a sample stand over a certain issue.

Satisfaction, happiness, and other feelings are subjective elements
which render questions concerning them impossible to make precise or
absolute.

So, depending on who you ask, you receive one from a variety of
possibly vastly different answers.  And if there were enough happy or
satisfied people were asked the happiness question, then the pollster
had no choice but to report this finding.

True, two suicides means two losses of life and to me, life is
sacrosanct, so it is sad.  But a survey does not measure the
happiness of one human being.

It looks at the entire society through a sample of its members.

I don't see why it is not possible for the people of Lhasa today to
give that answer, given that every city in China has its own problems
like people are forced to move away from their ancestral homes to make
room for the public transit or for an industrial development project.

It's also true that how you feel about your current happiness is
always measured your own experience from the past.  If the people who
have been forced to move away from their ancestral homes in Beijing
were happier before, then they would likely grumble now.  Likewise, if
the people from Lhasa used to be serfs and lived like any serfs of any
time and any country, they they may find their newly found freedom and
increasing longevity and growing wealth more satisfying,

Woeser asked:

 "if Lhasa people were all this "happy", why would they protest?"

Remember that the guns Ms. Woeser talked about are seen only in public
places where troublemakers are likely to perform their stunts.  And
remember that a lot of money are coming from western sources like the
CIA and the NED.  Like what happened during the latest presidential
election in Iran, crispy USDs were likely handed out during the 2008
Olympics season for some Tibetan youths to make trouble and provide
material for the media to talk about human rights for them.

And of course, the "temples" have been politicized by NED money.  If
you go to a temple to pray, you may not be doing so with the intention
to pray only.  You may be talking to someone and you may be receiving
crisp USD and some verbal instructions in return.

It is known that all the color-coded revolutions in the past decades
have seen USD in the protesters' hands whether it was in Kiev or in
Tehran.

Many people go to protest when they have nothing better to do and are
given money if they agree to go.

If you think seeing guns and soldiers around where protesters tend to
hang out is bad, see what you'd get if you politicize Mosques and
churches in the US.

Besides, Jesus has told us that our heart is our true temple.  He was
trying to tell us to beware of institutionalized religion.  You don't
need to go an ornate building to pray.  Can you imagine that the all
powerful God is not everywhere?  Can you imagine that the all powerful
and all omniscient God will confine himself or herself in that ornate
contraption to hear your prayer?  That's why any time someone tells
you that freedom of religion must include the freedom to worship and
pray in some temple, you know that he doesn't know what he's talking
about.

Consequently freedom of religion is an oxymoron.

And as many have said, the guns would not be necessary in Lhasa once
external funding ceases going to Da Lama and his cohorts.

People should always remember these three things when they talk about
China.

1) China, like any other government, especially of a size comparable
to or bigger than that of the US, is not perfect just as no other
government with vastly vested power is perfect.

It's an impossibility!

But there are improvements to be made, all the time!

2) The well-being of a country is always measured by the well-being of
the society as a whole rather than of a few individuals.  That means
that the more people are benefited from a given government, the less
the unhappiness and suffering of a few individuals count, no matter
how unfortunate the case may be.

Of course, the government and the society should work to eliminate
these individual tragedies.  But before they can be achieved, their
sufferings will not be enough ground to overturn the social order.

By the same token, if the government ignores the tragedies of the
individuals, then at some point, the sum of the tragedies may achieve
a critical mass to overturn the social order.  It's just logic.

3) The principle of causality should never be forgotten when you talk
about why China is what it is today and why Da Lama is going nowhere.

That is, if you read modern Chinese history to understand how the
"evil" CCP came to power, you see that the people who made up of the
CCP were extremely disciplined and dedicated people.  They thought
hard about how to win and worked hard toward winning that struggle
against the government which they regarded as corrupt and tried to
overthrow, even as countless of their comrades died by the enemy's
hand.

Lazy people never get anything significant accomplished except to make
some noise for some anti-Chinese propaganda machine working as a
stooge for a buck, like Da Lama and "writer" Liu Xiaobo who hasn't had
any writing of value to show for.

Unlike the CCP, Da Lama is a symbol of iniquity, privilege, and
self-indulgence.  Da Lama still lorded over his serfs and made them
build and build his oversized palaces in Lhasa as the CCP was working
hard to liberate China.  Nobulingka, the golden stupas, the mummies in
those stupas, are some of the relics of decadence of the feudal
theocracy which served no one except the lamas.

In simple terms, Da Lama lost because he neglected his people and did
not "lead" them.

lo yeeOn
========

And a typical stooge who has worked against China is Liu Xiaobo who
advocated 300 years of colonization of China by the West way back in
1988 and then in 2004 wrote in praise of all the wars of aggression
the US has fought, including the Iraq war and the Vietnam war.  Note
that the NED (itself funded by the US Congress), as it turns out, has
been paying Liu handsomely for hundreds of thousands of USD in recent
years:

So in 2004 Liu Xiaobo wrote:

 In human history, there was never a war to remove a tyranny like the
 war to topple Saddam, launched so rapidly, fought in such a civilized
 manner, and won so neatly!

Haha!

 . . .

 There is no free lunch anywhere in the world.  The success of any
 righteous enterprise demands lots of suffering, even at a tragic
 price.  This is especially true when law-abiding and civilized free
 countries are confronted with immoral and unreasonable authoritarian
 regimes, evil forces of terrorism and fundamentalism and the like and
 must enter into a contest, it is necessary to pay a huge price to win
 the final victory.  The horrible catastrophe of 9/11 is the price for
 the US to promote freedom, the anti-terror war after 9/11 is only the
 beginning of an open contest between the forces of freedom and
 terrorism, NATO soldiers and civilian casualties are the price we must
 pay to fight terrorism, to overthrow Saddam's tyranny, and to build a
 democratic Iraq.

If two suicide deaths in a year in Lhasa is a tragedy, which I
agree. then consider the 4000+ violent deaths Iraq continues to
sustain year after year and the dozen deaths each time a drone killed
in Pakistan and Afghanistan, week after week, and year after year.
But this is apparently what Liu Xiaobo believes is a necessary price
to pay for freedom and democracy!

 . . .

[excerpts from my translation of Liu's 2004 article on the Iraq War
and the US Presidential Election published in Chinese in China Observer]


text:
In article <2039739.0xQCEvomIN@Dharma>,
Peter Terpstra<[email]> wrote:

A poll is in general skewed by the set of criteria the pollster uses
to measure where the members of a sample stand over a certain issue.

Satisfaction, happiness, and other feelings are subjective elements
which render questions concerning them impossible to make precise or
absolute.

So, depending on who you ask, you receive one from a variety of
possibly vastly different answers.  And if there were enough happy or
satisfied people were asked the happiness question, then the poll had
no choice but reported this finding.

True, two suicides means two losses of life and to me, life is
sancrosanct, so it is sad.  But a survey does not measure the
happiness of one human being.  It looks at the entire society through
a sample of its members.  I don't see why it is not possible for the
people of Lhasa today to give that answer, given that every city in
China has its own problem like people are forced to move away from
their ancestral homes to make room for the public transit or for an
industrial development project.

It's also true that how you feel about your current happiness is
always measured your own experience from the past.  If the people who
have been forced to move away from their ancestral homes in Beijing
were happier before, then they would likely grumble now.  Likewise, if
the people from Lhasa used to be serfs and lived like any serfs of any
time and any country, they they may find their newly found freedom and
increasing longevity and growing wealth more satisfying,

Woeser asked:

 "if Lhasa people were all this "happy", why would they protest?"

Remember that the guns Ms. Woeser talked about are seen only in public
places where troublemakers are likely to perform their stunts.  And
remember that a lot of money are coming from western sources like the
CIA and the NED.  Like what happened during the latest presidential
election in Iran, crispy USDs were likely handed out during the 2008
Olympics season for some Tibetan youths to make trouble and provide
material for the media to talk about human rights for them.

And of course, the "temples" have been politicized by NED money.  If
you go to a temple to pray, you may not be doing so with the intention
to pray only.  You may be talking to someone and you may be receiving
crisp USD and some verbal instructions in return.

It is known that all the color-coded revolutions in the past decades
have seen USD in the protesters' hands whether it was in Kiev or in
Tehran.

Many people go to protest when they have nothing better to do and are
given money if they agree to go.

If you think seeing guns and soldiers around where protesters tend to
hang out is bad, see what you'd get if you politicize Mosques and
churches in the US.

Besides, Jesus has told us that our heart is our true temple.  He was
trying to tell us to beware of institutionalized religion.  You don't
need to go an ornate building to pray.  Can you imagine that the all
powerful God is not everywhere?  Can you imagine that the all powerful
and all omniscient God will confine himself or herself in that ornate
contraception to hear your prayer.  That's why any time someone tells
you that freedom of religion must include the freedom to worship and
pray in some temple, you know that he doesn't know what he's talking
about.

Consequently freedom of religion is an oxymoron.

And as many have said, the guns would not be necessary in Lhasa once
external funding ceases going to Da Lama and his cohorts.

People should always remember these three things when they talk about
China.

1) China, like any other government, especially of a size comparable
to or bigger than that of the US, is not perfect just as no other
government with vastly vested power is perfect.

It's an impossibility!

But there are improvements to be made, all the time!

2) The well-being of a country is always measured by the well-being of
the society as a whole rather than of a few individuals.  That means
that the more people are benefited from a given government, the less
the unhappiness and suffering of a few individuals count, no matter
how unfortunate the case may be.

Of course, the government and the society should work to eliminate
these individual tragedies.  But before they can be achieved, their
sufferings will not be enough ground to overturn the social order.

By the same token, if the government ignores the tragedies of the
individuals, then at some point, the sum of the tragedies may achieve
a critical mass to overturn the social order.  It's just logic.

3) The principle of causality should never be forgotten when you talk
about why China is what it is today and why Da Lama is going nowhere.

That is, if you read modern Chinese history to understand how the
"evil" CCP came to power, you see that the people who made up of the
CCP were extremely disciplined and dedicated people.  They thought
hard and worked hard about how to win that struggle against the
government which they regarded as corrupt and tried to overthrow, even
as countless of their comrades died by the enemy's hand.

Lazy people never get anything significant accomplished except to make
some noise for some anti-Chinese propaganda machine working as a
stooge for a buck, like Da Lama and "writer" Liu Xiaobo who hasn't had
any writing of value to show for.

Unlike the CCP, Da Lama is a symbol of iniquity, privilege, and
self-indulgence.  Da Lama still lorded over his serfs and made them
build and build his oversized palaces in Lhasa as the CCP was working
hard to liberate China.  Nobulingka, the golden stupas, the mummies in
those stupas, are some of the relics of decadence of the feudal
theocracy which served no one except the lamas.  In simples terms, Da
Lama lost because he neglected his people and did not "lead" them.

lo yeeOn
========

And a typical stooge who has worked against China is Liu Xiaobo who
advocated 300 years of colonization of China by the West way back in
1988 and then in 2004 wrote in praise of all the wars of aggression
the US has fought, including the Iraq war and the Vietnam war.  Note
that the NED (itself funded by the US Congress), as it turns out, has
been paying Liu handsomely for hundreds of thousands of USD in recent
years:

So in 2004 Liu Xiaobo wrote:

 In human history, there was never a war to remove a tyranny like the
 war to topple Saddam, launched so rapidly, fought in such a civilized
 manner, and won so neatly!

Haha!

 . . .

 There is no free lunch anywhere in the world.  The success of any
 righteous enterprise demands lots of suffering, even at a tragic
 price.  This is especially true when law-abiding and civilized free
 countries are confronted with immoral and unreasonable authoritarian
 regimes, evil forces of terrorism and fundamentalism and the like and
 must enter into a contest, it is necessary to pay a huge price to win
 the final victory.  The horrible catastrophe of 9/11 is the price for
 the US to promote freedom, the anti-terror war after 9/11 is only the
 beginning of an open contest between the forces of freedom and
 terrorism, NATO soldiers and civilian casualties are the price we must
 pay to fight terrorism, to overthrow Saddam's tyranny, and to build a
 democratic Iraq.

If two suicide deaths in a year in Lhasa is a tragedy, which I
agree. then consider the 4000+ violent deaths Iraq continues to
sustain year after year and the dozen deaths each time a drone killed
in Pakistan and Afghanistan, week after week, and year after year.
But this is apparently what Liu Xiaobo believes is a necessary price
to pay for freedom and democracy!

 . . .

[excerpts from my translation of Liu's 2004 article on the Iraq War
and the US Presidential Election published in Chinese in China Observer]


subject:
Re: Guns will disappear when NED/CIA money stops flowing to Da Lama,
 Liu Xiaobo, et al Re: CCTV Says Lhasa People Are Happiest - by Woeser for
 Radio Free Asia

text:
On Feb 14, 4:52 pm, [email] (lo yeeOn) wrote:

You have quite an axe to grind. But your pompous and self-indulgent
analysis is so off base it's pointless to try to reason with you.
Really.

Reality to LoYawn - whazzup?


author: Anti-DabianchenVirus

text:
On Feb 15, 9:02 am, rst0wxyz <[email]> wrote:

The way pansy Fungus claims he "knows" China, peering through his pink-
tainted glasses while his husband buggers him, and crying out, "Ooh,
ginormous!"?