subject: Re: The homosexual "agenda"^

text:
In article <[email]>
mahabarbara  <[email]> wrote:
[snip]

What particularly do you find "nutty" about it?

   http://www.aynrand.org/objectivism/essentials.html

I'm not an objectivist, but I distinguish the philosophy from the
subset of its proponents who are "nutty".  Not all self-described
objectivists posting to Usenet want to nuke Teheran to stop
terrorism.  Only a small minority, that I've seen.

Certainly, an individual must decide fundamentally what is most
important, which is necessarily subjective.  But, this does not
mean that a set of values which are logically consistent have no
more validity than any other set of values.

Many homosexuals seem to think it was for them:

   http://www.crosswinds.net/~queerchoice/

That is not to say that it was a choice for all homosexuals.  All
the data indicates it's not a simple yes/no issue.

[snip]

The same holds for me.  From reading your posts, I know that, on
some issues, I'm more towards the libertarians than you.

True.  Nor should law impose taxes or comparable means to encourage
or discourage certain behavior.  If it's legal, let people decide
as they wish what to do.

[snip]

 In article <[email]> Gail Weasel  <[email]> wrote:

"Time Flies like an arrow. Fruit Flies like a banana"
                            -- Groucho Marx


author: james g. keegan jr.

subject: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
"The Bush Administration has not only forfeited its credibility
internationally -- now it is also fighting a losing battle on the
home front. One could be tempted to feel Schadenfreude about the
spectacular failure of this president. But a US government that has
suffered such a loss of authority is a weakness for the whole West.
Iraq, Afghanistan, the Middle East, Iran and North Korea are the big
conflicts in international politics. Bush -- morally disavowed and
increasingly abandoned by his own party colleagues -- will not be
able to do much to solve them."
 --Financial Times Deutschland, "The Damage to Bush Is Enormous"


author: osprey

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
On Feb 26, 4:35 pm, [email] (NeffJew) wrote:

Furthermore, it appears that Iran is aggrevating the West with
comments and now...

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is facing harsh criticism from his own
people, including  Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who is upset with his latest
comments.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254725,00.html

TEHRAN, Iran -  President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faced a new round of
sharp criticism at home Monday after he said Iran's nuclear program is
an unstoppable train without brakes. Reformers and conservatives said
such tough talk only inflames the West as it considers further
sanctions.

The criticism came even as new signs have arisen that Iran's supreme
leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is growing discontented with
Ahmadinejad, whom he is believed to have supported in 2005
presidential elections.

Last week, Khamenei voiced rare criticism of the domestic performance
of Ahmadinejad's government, and the president was notably absent when
a group of Cabinet members and vice presidents met with Khamenei, who
has the final word in all political affairs in Iran, including the
nuclear issue.


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
On Feb 26, 5:40 pm, "osprey" <[email]> wrote:

Morons like you are asking for trouble.


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
On Feb 26, 10:38 pm, [email] (Ray Fischer) wrote:

He probably meant inside the U.S., which in fact would be true.

Mine have, I don't know what country you live in.

Our military is fine, worldwide credibility can be repaired and will
be, our effectiveness has not been reduced in international politics.

Clinton let him go..TWICE


author: [redacted]

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
On Feb 22, 6:21 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <[email]> wrote:

His inability to solve them is the primary reason even his own
enablers are rejecting him now.  And, in the conflicts mentioned, Bush
actually created or inflamed them!


author: David W. Barnes

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
In article <[email]>,
osprey <[email]> wrote:

Keep believing the Right Wing propaganda.  Keep listening to Fox ï¿½NEWS.ï¿½

Fox ï¿½NEWS!ï¿½


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
In article <[email]>,
osprey <[email]> wrote:

The World Trade Center attack occurred under Bush.

Well, YOU are the only one who is important.

LOL!  And you know that how?  Fox ï¿½NEWS?ï¿½

He went after him.  He tried.  Bush says he had no interest, even after
the World Trade Center attack.


author: The Chief Instigator

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
"osprey" <[email]> writes:

...as far as the media have let us know, anyway.

The same one you're a resident of.

"Remain calm!  ALL is WELL!" - Kevin Bacon in "Animal House"

Typical tactic for you...never mind that Reagan or Bush 41 could have had him
as well, but were too busy encouraging him and his fellow crazies to see what
they could do to what was left of the USSR.


author: Mitchell Holman

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
"osprey" <[email]> wrote in news:1172558995.424590.35060
@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:

Number of attacks on Bin Laden prior to 9/11

Clinton: 2

Bush: 0

Americans killed by Islamic terrorists under Clinton - 93

Americans killed by Islamic terrorists under Bush - 5,944


author: Ray Fischer

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
osprey <[email]> wrote:

It still would not be true.  Remember that anthrax attack aimed at
Democrats?  The one that killed a few people?

The United States.  According to the US government, wages adjusted for
inflation have not increased since Bush took power.

But you keep voting for republicans.  Why?  Because you depend upon
big-government republican policies.

That's why troops are having thier tours extended repeatedly, and why
the US military is scraping the barrel to get enough troops.

Sure.  Impeach Bush.

Not while fools like you keep ignoring the truth.

Don't be stupid.  Bush whines about Iran and now everybody just laughs
at him.  N. Korea does what it wants because they know that Bush has
no power.

The standard neocon whine: lie about Clinton as if Bush's lies and
incompetance were all Clinton's fault.


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
In article <[email]>,
 [email] wrote:

bush has done more damage to the united states then any of it's
enemies since it became a nation.


author: Osprey

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
"Mitchell Holman" <[email]> wrote in message
news:Xns98E44A5AC7F4Eta2eene2@216.196.97.131...

Number of times Bin Laden allowed to go free

Clinton 2


author: NeffJew

subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
There have not been any more terrorist attacks since 911! The economy is good,
unemployment low. The productivity of the USA is higher than ever. What damage
can you possibly be speaking of? The terrorists know that if they attack,
George Bush won't take it lying down like you liberals would!
 Sure, other countries talk bad about the USA. That's nothing new. THEY ARE
ENVIOUS OF US!


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
In article <[email]>, Osprey
<[email]> wrote:

He was never allowed to go free, LIAR.


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
NeffJew <[email]> wrote:

Yes there have.

Wages have not increased since Bush took power.

And all of the earned money is going to corporate profits and none to
the workers who are producing more.

A weaker military, reduced worldwide credibility, reduced
effectiveness in internation politics.

And what did Bush do about bin Laden?

Used it as an excuse to wages wars.


subject: Re: "Bush -- morally disavowed..."

text:
In article <XoIEh.23641$[email]>, NeffJew
<[email]> wrote:

LOL!  Yeah but the World Trade Center attack occurred on the
Republicans watch.  Plus BUSH has killed more than Bin Laden.

Dream on.  That is like saying that if you make $30,000 per year but
have a credit card with a high credit limit, which is maxed out, you
are in ï¿½good shape.ï¿½

They stop counting after awhile.

The dollar is weak.

Wake up, pal.

That is exactly what he did!  Under Clinton we tracked down and
imprisoned every person who attacked the World Trade Center.  Under
Bush - NOTHING!  We flew the Bin Laden family out of the country.

You live in a real dream world.


author: Tom Sr.

subject:
Our Nation Must Be Careful of the American, Religious Fundamentalists
 Among Us.

text:
...
These people can and do Evil things.

.

-----
-----
Please Note:

In select newsgroups my post will be followed by an out-of-date, cut-
and-paste, SHRIEKING ranting and raving post by Bob Milby Jr., aka
Patriot Games, aka Buster Norris, aka 10,000s of Sockpuppets -- Winner
of The alt.usenet.kooks Awards:  Palmjob Paddle (July 2008)*, KO0k of
the Month (Sept. 2012)**, and the Order of the Holey Sockpuppet (Oct.
2012)!***

     * This award is given to the person who gets spanked (as in,
thrashed) the most in a given month by other posters or even himself.
     ** Given to someone whose Kookery is judged to have surpassed all
others.
     ***  For those most prolific in the art of, abiet thinly,
disguising their net.presence behind whatever nose and glasses they
can concoct.

We hope to return you to more rational posting after this brief,
psychotic interruption.
------
------


author: Banging Alex Wagner like a drum

subject:
Re: Our Nation Must Be Careful of the American, Religious
 Fundamentalists Among Us.

text:
On Friday, April 19, 2013 9:08:52 PM UTC-5, Tom Sr. wrote:

The Southern Baptist wackos and the Mormons are top of the list.


author: Mr. B1ack

subject: Re: Our Nation Must Be Careful of the American, Religious Fundamentalists Among Us.

text:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 19:08:52 -0700 (PDT), "Tom Sr."
<[email]> wrote:

   Be careful ... but not paranoid, not terrorized.
   Those states of mind lead to things more horrible
   than what you were originally afraid of.


author: Hell Stomper

text:
On Apr 19, 10:08 pm, "Tom Sr." <[email]> wrote:

The Boston Bombers were just the beginning.  After so many years of an
economy virtually distroyed by the left's business hating policies,
many of the less intelligent among us have become radicalized.
It is an insurgency created of thousands of ignorant malcontents who
are gravitating toward the Moslem Jihadist movement out of an intense
hatred for what they have been indoctrinated to believe is the root of
all their troubles, Corporate America.


author: Gunner Asch

text:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 19:28:26 -0700 (PDT), Hell Stomper
<[email]> wrote:

Anybody ever find out what the gunfire and disabled power station
thingy were all about?


author: Edmond H. Wollmann

subject: Re: What is normal

text:
lloyd wrote:

Key Definitions for the self empowered;

Abnormal-Deviation from a "type" or standard. Every individual is
absolutely unique and expresses a specific idea, therefore, there really
is no such thing.
Abundance-The ability to have and create whatever experiences or things
that you need when you need them. You always have this ability and what
you need, even if you do not recognize it until later. If we believe
everything is there for a reason, we will find it much easier.
Accelerate-A change in vibration to a higher level or pitch in
consciousness that is more aware and encompassing in perspective,
usually achieved through the incorporation of psychic material
previously held in an unaware state. (see introspection).
Accident-Everything happens for a reason and therefore this is simply
the conscious mind's interpretation of unexpected events that occur
suddenly and without sequential reference.
Accord-A lack of resistance to developmental growth exhibited by a lack
of dis-ease and/or disintegration.
Accurate-Exact conformity to truth as an effect of analytical
discernment.
Acknowledge-To own or recognize through some act. In this text we have
said that we create our reality by what we believe. If we wish to change
any aspect or our reality, we must change definitions. We cannot change
definitions we are not willing to acknowledge or "own". (refer to the
defenses of the ego).
Action-The physical manifestation and/or movement of belief conviction.
Actualize-To real-ize.
Addiction-The giving up of creative power (the illusion of it) to
anything that denies the power of definition in the present.
Affect-Emotion and feeling as a response to belief.
Aggression-Two types. Natural aggression is the healthy assertion and
belief that the idea you are expressing deserves expression just because
you exist. Unnatural aggression usually results as an overcompensation
from prolonged judgment and repression of the identity and its validity.
(see the overcompensational pendulum).
Alienation-This usually happens when the vibrations of individuals or
groups become so different as to be unable to relate.
"All That Is"-God. Since we are an extension of it, it cannot be
accurate to label it another being. It is not outside of us. Literally,
all that is.
Alternative lives-"...or alternate lives will simply be extensions of
your soul self. The creation of personality fragments of a sort that
extend themselves into alternate dimensions of reality, rather than the
one that you relate to as your particular universal time track, although
you can have alternative lives in the present time track, and you can
call them counterparts."
These lives intrude upon the consciousness of this life because in
actuality they are one thing, experienced sequentially.
Anxiety-The negative expression and resistance to developmental tension
and growth otherwise felt as excitement.
Archetypal Symbology-The unconscious substream of collective
consciousness that manifests as symbols and concepts experienced by the
mass consciousness. Some aspects of it may be unique to specific solar
system configuration, and some is universal in nature.
Atonement-The allowance and experience of things as they are.
Attitude-Is the signature of expectation. It can therefore be a strong
deterrent to the experience of spontaneity, synchronicity and possibly
discernment. Perhaps the best attitude is one devoid of expectation.

Availability Heuristic-A principle that suggests that the more easily we
can imagine something or think about it, the more we believe it to be
likely in physical reality. If we acknowledge that there are different
levels to the psyche, then if we can imagine it, it must be manifestable
or real on some level.
Awake-Typically is meant to signify conscious mind focus at the expense
of other levels of psychic material. We may be more awake, however (in
touch with broader aspects of ourselves) in the dream state or when we
encounter unexpected aspects (or accidents) of ourselves through
unconscious creation and experience. "Waking up" then could be the
acknowledging of aspects ourselves through reality encounters.
Aware-The incorporation and integration of divergent levels of
consciousness and focus.
Balance-The recognition that you (and all of reality) contain all
divergent and apparently contradicting polarities and dichotomies, both
positive and negative.
Belief system-Is one of the three aspects of the persona, the other two
being emotion and thought. It is one of the ways that the free will of
the physical self is determined and expressed. The specific
configuration of the archetypal reference that a being trusts into
manifestation.
Better-The conscious mind judgment of a different scenario that does not
allow present situations to be of service or to "fit".
Bible-The Age of Pisces inspired book meant to assist in the relaxation
of conscious mind preoccupation and focus toward the expansion of
perspective for the Age of Aquarius.
Biofeedback-The use of equipment to provide feedback and information on
biological functions of the body created by the entirety of the levels
of the psyche.
Buddha-Sanskrit for "the awakened one".
Cause-The apparent physical or possibly non-physical initiation of any
momentum. Since there really is no such thing as time, all causes are
effects as well.
Channel-Anything that functions as a carrier to express vibrations,
levels and ideas.
Childlike-Without the fear of, or addiction to, only the physical
dimension of reality- and a lack of the "seeing-is-believing" mental
attitude associated with it.
Christ Consciousness-The integrated combined consciousness of all
archetypal reference within this solar system. The "psyche" of this
system.
Co-creation-Participation through relationship of two or more
co-creators within the Multiverse ("All That Is").
Cognitive restructuring-A therapy such as rational emotive, that allows
the individual to think about their problems more constructively and
less irrationally. (See discernment)
Coherent-Logically and integratively consistent.
Co-incident-The unifying agreement between more than one system of
belief through vibrational relevance. Corroboration not accident.
Collective unconscious-Mass idea expression that extends into archetypal
reference, by which all of our physical reality experiences are made
possible mentally, through the projection of them as reflection into
material objects and experiences.
Common sense-A trust (belief) in "self-evident" concepts. Commonly held
beliefs and prejudices internalized by the approximate age of 14 years.
Albert Einstein pointed out that every new idea one encounters in later
life must combat this accretion of self-evident concepts.
Conditioning-The acceptance by the unconscious level of psychic material
of a belief, emotion or thought.
Con or Co-fusion-The dissolution of focus by the conscious mind upon the
matter portion of spirit caused by the expansion of perspective and
introduction of previously unaccepted psychic material.
Conscience-Intuitive and/or conscious recognition of integrative
behavior. Functioning at the level of discernment.

Conscious Commandment-The decision process and ability of the adult or
mature mind (conscious mind of course) to redefine itself through
awareness and will. (see willpower).
Conservation and classification abilities-Characteristics of the
concrete operational stage of children at the age between  6-12 proposed
by Jean Piaget (Piaget & Inhelder, 1969), wherein children begin to
recognize that certain properties of an object remain the same, even
when other superficial properties change. This initiates and corresponds
with the critical stages of development reflected in astrology by
Saturn's cycle at ages 7, 14, 21, 28 etc. The conscious mind reaches
critical stages of concretization and conscious commandment at these
ages.
Control-There are two types. Negative control is the belief that reality
exists only outside of the self and requires domination.
Positive control entails the recognition that you are the reality you
previously thought you existed within. Therefore positive control
results in the transformation of perspective through the incorporation
of experiences through the reflective interaction with the environment
or response-ability.(see responsibility).
Conviction-The willingness to fulfill the purpose of living, which is to
express with fervor the idea you are within the "All That Is",
diligently, by following your bliss or excitement.
Counselor-An individual that assists or allows another individual to
re-member or re-cognize ideas already contained in the personal or
collective unconscious material. "You cannot teach a man anything. You
can only help him discover it within himself."
Death-Cessation of the physical vehicle when idea expression has been
exhausted.

Depression-A state of being created by the individual to allow for a
psychologically inward focus, when value judgements about situations
seek contradiction resolution.
Destiny-The unfolding of physical events and experience that represent
the most strongly held belief system and character  definition.
Dichotomy-The apparent effects of "All That Is" manifesting itself as
counterpart concepts in three dimensional reality.
Dis-aster-State of perceived separation from the stars and cosmos.
Discern-Perceptual ability to discriminate between belief projection and
belief momentum acknowledgement.
Dis-ease-Hyphenated to emphasize the original meaning of the word. A
state of being wherein aspects of the self, not considered to be the
self, are denied integration and contradiction resolution. Developmental
tension results as an effect of paradox or contradiction the conscious
mind is unwilling to psychologically integrate or co-fuse. Therefore, as
an expression of the overall state of vibrational level integration,
dis-ease is not simply external organisms attacking the biological
structure, but a state of being that allows this to occur.
Disempowerment-Addiction to the concept that physical reality exists
only outside of the individual, independently. (see section on science)
Distance-A perceptual illusion based on three dimensional focus.
Emotion-The energy motion of a belief or definition that "causes"
feelings.
Enlighten-The effect that occurs when unconscious forgotten awareness is
re-membered.
Excitement-The vibratory energy sensation that is felt when an
individual is allowing the experience and participation in the
frequencies that are most representative of the self definition and
level. It is reflective of the easiest fulfillment path of the
individual's "hallway", the chosen path or destiny of idea expression
and fulfillment in the current life.
Fact-One of the elements of a paradigm or system of thought. Anything
that we can imagine must exist on some level, therefore, it also can be
regarded as anything actually existent. But that existence is not
necessarily determined by manipulability. Its conceivability makes it
"real".
Fate-Unrecognized choice. The physical manifestation of belief
definition usually misinterpreted as anything from "God's will" to
chaotic and random acts of the universe. Fate is the experiencing of the
most likely events to occur as an effect of definitions of the
individual, if the energy does not change. Therefore, the less the
awareness of belief definition, the easier it is for an astute analyst
to predict behavior and experience.
Fear-The experiencing of definitions that the individual has failed to
acknowledge through introspection. The higher self and unconscious bring
these definitions to the forefront of conscious mind recognition either
through perceived threats to security or physical threats through the
"props" of the material world. More positively, the emotional response
necessary to physical survival.
Feeling-The emotional sensation felt as a reaction to deep seated belief
or cognition. We must believe something first before we feel any way
about it because the universe has no built-in meaning.
Free will-There are two types but we always have free will to redefine
ourselves at any moment. The free will of the higher self manifests more
in the appearance of a destiny or path. The free will of the physical
self or persona then has its own free will to determine the quality of
experience in the hallway or definition parameters determined by the
higher self, as reflected through the horoscope. Either way it is the
exorcising of the chosen purpose.
Friendship-Similarity in vibrational frequency enough that five factors
occur; 1) common ground activities are shared. 2) communication clarity.
3) information exchanges. 4) conflict resolution. 5) reciprocity and
positive reinforcement. (John Gottman 1983).
Genetics-The physical reflection of the momentum of belief patterning
prescribed by the higher self and the collective unconscious.
Genius-The allowance and expression of all levels of consciousness,
including some past and some future selves, in the present incarnation.
Higher-order motive-In psychology this is known as a "hypothetical"
motive because it does not involve physiological changes that can be
measured as the "cause" of the motive. The perspective of this text is
that this is the primary and ultimate motive although it may be quite
unconscious.
Ideas-All the different ways that God or "All That Is" has of expressing
itself within the creation that it is, labeled or not.
Illusion-The discounting of the present experiences through the
judgement of the conscious mind, of them not being the ideal. An antonym
of discernment.
Implied-To contain an inference through discernment, logic, or
psychological interpretation or action, an idea that may contradict or
reinforce conscious mind argument and recognition.
Integrity-Functioning as an integrated whole. Actions and behavior that
reflect the awareness and recognition that you are as powerful as you
need to be to create whatever you desire to create as an experiential
reality, without having to hurt or malign anyone or anything else in
order to do so, simply through redefinition and the trusting of the new
definition. A person acting with integrity is moved to action only by
unifying, spontaneous excitement as the effect of inspiration and
following ones bliss. They are not moved through the perceived loss of
control, threats, strategic block, or the negative effects of any other
vibration. Positive energy dissolves barriers through understanding,
negative energy seeks to overpower or flee barriers which paradoxically
creates a more difficult barrier-because the barriers are created by the
self for a reason.
Intention-The most important factor in the experiencing of reality. The
type of energy and belief that initiates momentum, action and
experience.
Intuition-Automatic discernment without the process of analysis.
Accuracy is determined by the extent of self knowledge. From intueri: to
look into or upon.
Karma-The self imposed balancing of polarity experience through
momentum.
Knowledge base-The base of conceptual storage that determines the
quality of mental functioning and memory. Research has shown that the
more a person knows about a topic, the easier it is to recall items that
pertain to that topic or base.
Learned helplessness-A negative belief spiral that allows for passive
endurance of situations not believed changeable.
Learned optimism-The belief in the ability to induce a positive reality.
Light-The basic component and stuff of which the Multiverse is made.
Love-Empathic sychronistic accord and recognition of vibratory levels
between any-things in the Multiverse. There is no guilt or sense of
responsibility involved in unconditional love. Those are issues of
power, not love.
Mathematics-The organized symbolic expression through numbers of the
"mechanics" of "All That Is".

Matter-The physically manifested version of mind.
Mind-The non-physical version of idea expression. The essence of "All
That Is".
Moral-The prevailing value judgments of good and bad based on the
awareness of the current collectivity.
Mythology-A symbolic language used to interact with archetypal
reference.
Natural-Energy and momentum taking the line of least resistance. Normal
implies expectations and conditional standards that reinforce the ego in
its assessment of "correct and proper". Natural is infinite in
expression. (see excitement, bliss, and integrity).
Occult-To obscure, such as one planet crossing over the face of another.
The study of knowledge hidden by the preoccupation with conscious mind
functioning.
Oversoul-The collective name for the entirety of the identity, physical
and non-physical.
Paradox-The expression of polarity in physical reality. It appears as a
discrepancy, but is a signal that all sides are contained within your
consciousness.
Perfection-"Allow us to refresh ourselves on the idea and the concept
of, perfection. We have discussed many times with you, the idea that in
your lives very often you are taught, that even when you create the idea
and the notion in your lives of what you call, a spiritual path. That
the reason for this is for the a-ttainment and the a-chievement of
perfection. But recognize once again as we have shared many times our
perspective is that you will never a-chieve perfection, because you are
already perfect. The idea does not mean that you will not grow, not
expand, not change, not transform, not learn something new. But it is
simply an allowance, a recognition of allowance in your lives, that at
any given moment, the idea you are being, the reality you are
expressing, the events you are experiencing, are for their own reasons
perfect in themselves. This relaxation, this attitude, this backing off
from yourself in that way rather than applying so much pressure to the
idea to BE MORE PERFECT, is what allows you to know that you can always
become a different type of perfection at any given moment, perhaps a
more expanded type. But you will always be, at any given moment, the
absolute perfect manifestation of whatever idea you are being at that
moment. Your willingness to allow that moment to be perfect in and of
itself, is what paradoxically allows you to create the next and
different perfect moment. Because unless you are willing to allow
whatever moment you are experiencing to be complete in and of itself on
all levels, then you are not allowing yourself to view and perceive all
facets of that experience, because if you do not think it is perfect as
it is, if you invalidate it and judge it in that way, in a negative
point of view, then you yourself may be shutting off aspects of that
event, of that moment that you need to see, need to be aware of, to
incorporate them into the totality of yourself so that you can get on
with the next step. Every moment is a stepping stone to the next moment,
and if you invalidate any stepping stone then you yourself remove from
the path you are, the ability to get to the next stepping stone. Always
allow each and every moment of your lives to be perfectly valid as they
are. This does not mean that you must accept that the things that are
occurring in your life are what you "should" accept or prefer. You can
always prefer your life to be the way you desire it to be. But the way
to allow yourself to create it to be the way that you desire it to be,
is to accept that the way it is now SERVES A PURPOSE and is a PART of
the path you have created yourself to be, and that what you are learning
is there for a reason, your reason! That there is something within the
scenario you want to see, you want to reflect on, you want to learn
from. And in accepting and acknowledging the way your life does unfold,
that is what gives you the recognition of the empowerment you have, to
create your life to unfold in the direction and in the manner you most
desire it to be.
 So simply do allow yourself to reflect at any given moment, that no
matter what your choices, every scenario, for what it is, is a perfect
manifestation of that scenario. You can prefer perfect harmony and
perfect ecstasy, or you can prefer perfect misery. But both are perfect
expressions of the idea you are reflecting at that moment. And when you
allow it to be there for a reason, then you can extract from that
scenario, what will most assist you in reforming the idea, redirecting
yourself and creating what it is you desire to experience most in your
reality.
 Many individuals will pressure themselves in many different ways to
strive, to struggle, to try, to be more perfect. Will set themselves
goals and ideals in that way, that continually denies the validity they
possess, at that moment. In that way you deny yourself all that you
truly desire as well. For if you do not believe yourself complete in
that moment, then you, by your own definition, insist that you do not
have the capability of creating what it is you say you desire to attract
into your lives. Knowing that you are complete, perhaps focused not in a
way you prefer to be, but knowing you are complete, gives you the
opportunity to know that at any given moment you have the ability to
refocus yourself in any direction you desire-you lack nothing! You have
all the tools and all the abilities you require at any given moment to
be anything you are willing and bold enough to believe you can define
yourself to be!"
Perspective-A separated viewpoint that allows for analytical
discernment. The fragmentation of the ideas of "All That Is".
Primacy-Paths and belief definitions taken early in life, especially
early deprivation patterning, become the most significant issues
throughout the life. This is known as primacy.
Prove-To demonstrate viable evidence through discernment as opposed to
belief.
Puberty-The primary stage of cognitive development that corresponds to
Piaget's Formal Operational Stage, and to the peak cycle of Saturn at
approximately age 14, that concretizes through physical reality and
experience, the identity's greatest
fears of limitation in conscious commandment. (see conservation,
commandment, willpower, conscious mind).
Reality-The systems or portions of "All That Is" that one experiences,
as the effect of belief definition and conviction.
Recognize-The recalling of information.
Reflection-The creation of separated symbols that are a reminder to the
self of its creations. This is what the horoscope and the study of
astrology is.
Relative-The logic that applies to a specific system of belief.
Religion-To re-link the self to its origin in the cosmos or macrocosm.
You cannot belong  to a re-linking, it is a state of being not a thing.
Orthodox religions of present day have nothing to do with this idea.
They are habitually ritualized organizations that promote the science of
following for those powerless enough to believe that any other
individual has more power than they do to re-link. Placing the power
outside of themselves they are necessarily disillusioned. Christ said,
"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say,
lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is  within you."
Responsibility-The ability to respond to your own creations, through
increasing awareness of what definitions within the self created them.
We are not responsible for anyone, we are only responsible to them by
being all that we can be in service, through unconditional love.
However, this should not be taken to mean that we are not somehow always
either a part of the solution to issues, or a part of the problem. (see
self efficacy, learned helplessness, self-empowerment).
Self-efficacy-The belief and trust in the performance and experience of
reality that is reinforced by acting on things that inspire and
represent the essence of the energy of the individual. The opposite of
learned helplessness which creates feelings of inferiority.
Should-A conscious mind judgment that gives more value to one idea over
another. If you are following your excitement or bliss, whatever occurs
needs to and is a part of the path you chose to be. Therefore, there are
no "shoulds". (see excitement, integrity and co-incident).
Status-An artificial condition or rank derived from value judgment.
Belief in self-efficacy.
Telepathy-Strong identification with a vibrational frequency that allows
for attunement to that frequency.
Template-The foundational symbology upon which a system of reality is
derived.
Threshold of believability-The level at which actions begin to reflect
beliefs other than what is professed. The intensity level or conviction
contained with the idea you say you are. I.e., if you say you wish to be
abundant, when do you believe this is possible? If you say within a
year, then this time period reflects to some degree your willingness to
accept the abundance-if you believe tomorrow the threshold is high-if 2
years the threshold lowers. It is a way to discern the reality of the
momentum of a belief.
Time-The measurement of events, and experiencing of ideas sequentially
that actually exist all at once. The effect of conscious mind focus and
limitation.
True-The absolute conforming of an event or experience to the belief
system and reality that created it.
Trust-The conviction of belief that manifests mind into matter and
experience.
Victim-The belief that one can experience calamity originating  from
outside of the self. We cannot experience anything that is not a part of
us on some level.  Similar vibrations affect each other by agreement
within the same system of belief.
Will or willpower-"That sum of psychic energy that is disposable to
consciousness" (C.G. Jung from Psychological Types). The conscious
commandment or control the upper level of mind has over its psychic
reactions.


author: anonym

subject: Re: What is normal

text:
Edmond Heinz Wollmann, convicted in San Diego  on 6/28/98 of a
misdemeanor (PC 555- Unlawful Entry), fined, and placed on probation,
sued for Unlawful Detainer and evicted in 3/96, past violator of Federal
and State game laws for abusing wildlife, and remorseless confessed
killer of another human being wrote:

What is normal for Ed is to have Irritated Bowel Syndrome and then take
out his discomfort on everyone here by spamming Usenet.


author: jfred

subject: Re: What is normal

text:
Edmond H. Wollmann <[email]> wrote:

<snip! (and that SHOULD be a colon, not a semicolon)>

Abnormal -- Deviation from a "type" or standard. Every individual is
absolutely unique and expresses a specific idea, therefore, there really
is no such thing, except for Edmo, who is hideously abnormal.

Abundance -- Plenty. Edmo has never experienced material abundance, but
has more than an abundance of hate and bile. If we believe everything is
there for a reason, we still are left wondering what is the point of
Edmo's existence.

Accelerate -- To speed up. In an effort to speed up his supposed
"education," which is dragging well into his 4th decade, Edmo has only
succeeded in accelerating his accumulation of debt.

Accident -- Everything happens for a reason, and therefore this is
simply the conscious mind's interpretation of unexpected events that
occur suddenly and without sequential reference. So, when Edmo rammed
his motor scooter into a car, it was because he is insane.

Accord -- Either a car made by Honda or agreement. Edmo doesn't know
anything about cars, and no one (except for the equally insane bDAN) has
ever agreed with him, so he has some other deranged definition for this
word.

Accurate -- Conforming exactly to fact; errorless -- for antonym, see
Edmo's book.

Acknowledge -- To own or recognize through some act. In his text Edmo
has said that he creates his reality by what he believes. If he wishes
to change any aspect of his reality, he just changes definitions. It's
kooky and deranged, but he can't help it (refer to the defenses of the
ego).

Action -- The physical manifestation and/or movement of belief
conviction, which Edmo always expresses powerlessly, because he is
always wrong.

Actualize -- To describe or portray realistically, something that has so
far proven to be beyond Edmo.

Addiction -- A compulsion, much like Edmo's lying.

Affect -- Something that Edmo's powerless complaints do not have.

Aggression -- Two types. Natural aggression is the healthy assertion and
belief that the idea you are expressing deserves expression. Edmo
aggression usually results as an overcompensation from prolonged poor
judgment and delusion.

Alienation -- This usually happens when Edmo encounters other people or
groups.

"All That Is" -- Literally, all that is. That's it.

Alternative lives -- Options that Edmo wishes he had.

Anxiety -- The negative expression and resistance to developmental
tension and growth otherwise felt as excitement which Edmo expresses on
usenet.

Atonement -- Something that Edmo owes many past girlfriends and
"clients."

Awake -- The state in which Edmo is at his most deranged.

Balance -- The recognition that you (and all of reality) contain all
divergent and apparently contradicting polarities and dichotomies, both
positive and negative. If you become unbalanced, then you are said to
have "pulled an Edmo."

Belief system -- Is one of the three aspects of the persona, the other
two being emotion and thought. It is one of the channels that Edmo uses
to express his deranged views.

Better -- If there are two ideas, and one is Edmo's, this is the other.

Bible -- Yet another source of Edmo's plagiarism.

Biofeedback -- When Edmo set himself on fire, it hurt.

Childlike -- word used to describe Edmo's grammar and spelling.

Christ Complex -- One of Edmo's moods.

Cognitive restructuring -- A therapy such as rational emotive, that
allows the individual to think about their problems more constructively
and less irrationally. Sadly, this has not worked on Edmo yet.

Coherency -- Logical consistency. Something Edmo has only heard of, but
has never experienced.

Collective unconscious -- Memories of mental patterns that are shared by
members of a single culture. Example: virtually everyone on usenet
considers Edmo to be a kook.

Common sense -- Acceptance of "self-evident" concepts. Commonly held
beliefs and prejudices internalized by the approximate age of 14 years.
Edmond Wollmann proved that every new idea he encounters in later life
must combat his lack of common sense.

Conditioning -- The acceptance by the unconscious level of psychic
material of a belief, emotion or thought, even despite the surrounding
reality (at least in Edmo's case).

Conscience -- Something that is missing in Edmo.

Control -- There are two types. Negative control is the belief that
reality exists only outside of the self and requires domination. Edmo
expresses this through his powerless attempts at net-copping. Positive
control has not been seen in Edmo's case.

Conviction -- What happened to Edmo after the cops caught him riding his
motor scooter on the railroad tracks.

Destiny -- The unfolding of physical events and experience that
represent the most strongly held belief system and character
definition. Edmo's destiny as a kook has been assured.

Dichotomy -- Most of Ed's sentences.

Disaster -- The state of Edmo's life.

Disease -- A state of being wherein aspects of the self, not considered
to be the self, are denied integration and contradiction resolution.
Developmental tension results as an effect of paradox or contradiction
the conscious mind is unwilling to psychologically integrate. Therefore,
Edmo suffers from mental illness.

Disempowerment -- Addiction to the concept that physical reality exists
only outside of the individual, independently (see Edmo's powerless
netcopping activities).

Emotion -- The energy motion of a belief or definition that "causes"
Edmo to weep like a woman.

Excitement -- What happens to Edmo when he is caught lying. When in this
state, Edmo spits and swears and types in all caps.

Fact -- One of the elements of a paradigm or system of thought that Edmo
has yet to produce.

Fate -- Unrecognized choice. The physical manifestation of belief
definition usually misinterpreted as anything from "God's will" to
chaotic and random acts of the universe. Fate is the experiencing of the
most likely events to occur as an effect of definitions of the
individual, if the energy does not change. Therefore, Edmo is a loser.

Fear -- The experiencing of definitions that the individual has failed
to acknowledge through introspection. Edmo experiences this in response
perceived threats to security or imagined physical threats (like
"toast!").

Free will -- There are two types but we always have free will to
redefine ourselves at any moment. This is why it is so amazing that Edmo
always defines himself as the same powerless loser. The free will of
Ed's higher self manifests more in his constant failures. The free will
of his physical self can't be expressed even when he has panties on his
head.

Friendship -- In Edmoworld, this is a relationship that is exploitable.

Ideas -- All the different ways that Edmo has of expressing himself
within the context of being wrong.

Illusion -- The type of delusion to which Edmo clings.

Integrity -- Defined by Edmo as a container that you are either in, or
out of. His actions and behavior reflect his awareness and recognition
that he is powerless and can't create as an experiential reality without
having to hurt or malign others in order to do so, simply because he is
such an incredible loser. A person acting with integrity is moved to
action only by unifying, spontaneous excitement as the effect of
inspiration and following ones bliss. But Edmo has not moved through his
perceived loss of control, threats, strategic block, or the negative
effects of any other vibration.

Intention -- In Edmo's case, the delusion that causes him to undertake
his powerless activities.

Karma -- The self imposed balancing of polarity experience through
momentum. This can be either all positive, both positive and negative,
or (as in Edmo's case), all negative.

Knowledge base -- The base of conceptual storage that determines the
quality of mental functioning and memory. Research has shown that the
more a person knows about a topic, the easier it is to recall items that
pertain to that topic or base. Since Edmo is a highschool dropout, his
base is flimsy.

Light -- Another word for the reality which is constantly shed upon
Edmo's delusions.

Mathematics -- The organized symbolic expression through numbers of
things Edmo can't understand.

Mind -- Something that Edmo lost a long time ago.

Moral -- The prevailing value judgments of good and bad that Edmo keeps
ignoring.

Occult -- To obscure, such as what Edmo's expressions do with the facts.

Octagon -- The place that Edmo fears the most. The place where Edmo
cannot run, and cannot hide.

Paradox -- One of Edmo's sentences.

Perfection -- not a relevant term in the context of Edmo.

Perspective -- The warped thing through which Edmo perceives.

Prove -- To demonstrate viable evidence through discernment as opposed
to belief. A fairly basic idea that Edmo can't grasp.

Reality -- that which is out of Edmo's grasp.

Reflection -- The horror that greets Edmo in the mirror.

Relative -- Someone who will "fix" your ice cream but won't give you
money.

Religion -- Something Edmo's loses when he encounters even a simple
idea.

Responsibility -- The ability to respond to your own creations, which
Edmo has never possessed.

Should -- A word most people use to express obligation or duty, but that
Edmo doesn't acknowledge because he takes no responsibility for his
actions.

Status -- Considered an artificial condition or rank derived from value
judgment by those, like Edmo, who have none.

Threshold of believability -- Something that Edmo is still striving to
reach.

True -- The reality in which everyone but Edmo exists.

Trust -- Something that Edmo has failed to earn from anyone.

Victim -- A "client" of Edmo's.

Wollmann -- Failure, bomb, bust, born loser, dud, flop, lemon,
non-starter, washout, ne'er-do-well.


author: Kristian Lahdensuo

subject: Snail Ear

text:
For some unclear reason I'm on a Raelian posting list

<paste>

Did any one ever notice that raelians spelled backwards is "snail
ear" ?  There is an analogy to this i think.  In our ears, there is
this thing shaped like a snail called a cochlea.  While snaileaR is
another way to say cochlea, Raï¿½l is another way to say messenger.

I discovered that when I added the letters together i got: snailear
= raelians = listen = hear cochlea = 79

you can cut and paste these forumlas into Microsoft calulator program
snailear = 19+14+1+9+12+5+1+18
raelians = 18+1+5+12+9+1+14+19
listen = 12+9+19+20+5+14
hearcochlea = 8+5+1+18+ 3+15+3+8+12+5+1

while numerology isn't a science, i think that maybe the elohim set
this up some how.

like this:
listener ~>>-snailearaelians-<<~ messenger


author: nikolai kingsley

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"raelian" is also another way to say "would have been a half-way convincing
saucer scam except the Church of the SubGenius got there first"


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"nikolai kingsley" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
convincing

btw, quite fresh news from the seti front:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/09/02/space.signals.reut/


author: Ace Lightning

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
nikolai kingsley wrote:

yeah, but everyone understands that the Church of the SubGenius
is only supposed to *LOOK* like a nut cult, while the Raelians
really *are* a nut cult.


author: The Ace of Spades

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Kristian Lahdensuo" <[email]> wrote in message
news:413c959c$[email]...

This article seems to imply extraterrestrials would use a different means of
communication:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/09/02/et.send/index.html

However, it seems to me that for a first contact, radio waves would be more
useful, since they probably wouldn't know where we were to send their FedEx
package.

//


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
Kristian Lahdensuo wrote:

a lot of large-bore scientific types are rushing to tell
the world not to get all excited about this, that the
signal may be a natural phenomenon - when pulsars were first
discovered (by their regularly pulsating output), they were
dubbed "LGM" for "Little Green Men", until it was determined
that the signals weren't the product of intelligence at all.
the people who are supposed to know about stuff like this are
saying that the newly detected signals are probably something
very much like pulsars.

i mean, if they *REALLY* want our attention, they ought to
at least send us dirty jokes in Morse code or something.

(and now kludge and kent are going to actually *post* dirty
jokes in Morse code, which i'm going to have to decipher...)


author: Gary Heston

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <413c959c$[email]>,
Kristian Lahdensuo <[email]> wrote:
  [ ... ]

Old news; that particular signal was received about 18 months
ago, and has been the subject of three or four overblown news
articles by journalists whose scientific qualifications are
primarliy that they didn't duck quickly enough when the senior
editor walked by.

Gary
56,178 completed SETI@home work units


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

It's still something to get excited about, because, as the article says, it
may also be a previously unexplained heavenly object, which would be a new
discovery in itself.

On the other hand, it does say it may be a defect in the detecting
telescope.

//


author: edens morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Ace Lightning <[email]> wrote:

one of those paradoxes is that the simpler and more regular a signal
the more likely it is artificial
while the more sophisticated communications
would be barely distinguished from noise

arf meow arf


subject: Re: Snail Ear


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Gary Heston" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

the seti has its own saying of the matter:

http://www.seti-inst.edu/about_us/info_for_media/in_the_news/setiathome_foun
d_signal.php


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
edens morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:

duh. just about everything in the universe rotates, and
things that rotate give off signals that pulsate with
exactly as much regularity as the rotation. any steady,
unvarying pulsation is almoust undoubtedly natural in
origin. now, if they'd send us the value of pi to the
first million digits, in base-11 notation... or some sort
of schematized map saying "we're over here, idiots!"...
or even just a good recipe for cheesecake...


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
nikolai kingsley wrote:

(complete with typo:)

an old lady dies and goes to heaven. she is chatting with st. peter at
the
"pearly gates" when all of sudden she hears the most awful
blood-curdling
screams. "don't worry about that," says st. peter, "it's only someone
having
the holes bored on their shoulder blades for wings."  the old lady looks
a
little uncomfortable but carries on with the conversation. ten minutes
later,
there are more blood-curdling screams. "oh my goodness," says the old
lady,
"now what is happening?" "not to worry," says st. peter, "they are just
having their head drilled to fit the halo." "i can't do this," says the
old lady, "i'm off to hell."  "you can't go there," says st. peter,
"you'll
be raped and sodomized."  "yes," says the old lady, "but i've already
got
the holes for that."


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Please don't say duh to my friend coyote. I'm sure he anticipated your
comments long before you wrote them, let alone been oblivious to their
knowledge.

//


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Ace Lightning <[email]> wrote:

sagans suggestion was to send prime numbers
theyre simple enough to distinguish from background
but no known natural process generates them

all you need is a receiver that is primed and ready

arf meow arf


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <[email]>,
Ace Lightning  <[email]> wrote:
   [ ... ]

I want to see their version of the Sci-Fi Channel.

"And in our next episode, Zorx and Knarr make contact with
strange pink aliens..."

Gary


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
this is an artefact of Ace's voice-to-text software, trying to deal with her
heavy Russian accent. she was agreeing with him.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
Gary Heston wrote:

Zorx: "Their technology is so primitive! They're still
attempting to communicate by means of radio waves, instead
of submodulated quantum telepathy like all the civilized
species we know of!"

Knarr: "It's no surprise, though; look at the pitiful
excuses they have for manipulating organs. They only
have five on each limb, and they're not even proper
tentacles - they actually have (*shudder*) joints! And
you really don't want to know about their sexual habits."

Zorx: "I've heard rumors that they only have *two*
sexes. How can civilization evolve among such biologically
deficient creatures?"


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "nikolai kingsley" <[email]> wrote:

we are not natural
we are artificial flavoring

arf meow arf


author: Bob Bain

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:44:12 GMT, Ace Lightning
<[email]> wrote in message id
<[email]>:

 I used to speculate on a third sex and how it would operate.
Basically there would be three sexs - male - female and pale.

 The male of the species would desire pale and have sex with pale.
Pale would lust after female and have sex with female.

 If male seeded pale and pale then had sex with female, female could
fall pregnant.

 There would of course be deviations and deviants.

 As for radio waves the human species haven't known about them for
very long.

  We are novices in the electromagnetic spectrum.

  It may be that other intelligence (please note that I don't use the
word "life" or or "species") simply hasn't discovered radio waves (if
such a thing exists and I'm not absolutely certain that these waves
have been proven to exist as there is no eather to waggle about it,
which was the basis of the philosophy of their existence.

 I realise there are phenonema we like to call "radio" and define it
as a "wave form" and indeed to our consciousness it would appeat to
take that form.  It doesn't mean however that radio is anything other
than something unique to human experience.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
..

Actually the Raelians' one famous alien, was he named Yahweh (!?), looks
like a hybrid of a little green man, Michael Jackson and Jesus, or
something. Here is a pic:
http://myhome.naver.net/galaxy5909/elohim-intro-smimg2.jpg

That's not the best picture of their alien that I've seen..


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
Bob Bain wrote:

there have been a few different speculations in science fiction
about how three sexes might work. the most popular one seems to
be one sex (roughly equivalent to "female") contributing an ovum,
one sex (roughly equivalent to "male") fertilizing it, and the
third sex carrying the fetus within its body until it's ready to
be born.

on the contrary. radio has nothing to do with the "aether". radio is
a convenient name for portions of the electromagnetic spectrum of
radiation. we can most definitely prove the existence of both
magnetic and electrical fields, and "radio waves" are simply periodic
fluctuations in the intensity and direction of these fields.
furthermore, stars, and even planets, give off radio signals, and
have done so for billions of years before humans started playing
with electricity and generating the first poorly-organized waves.

it is entirely possible that somewhere in the universe there are
beings whose natural abilities include generating radio waves,
without bothering to invent machinery to do so. communication among
them might be very intriguing, in form if not in content.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Bob Bain" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

This already exists on planet Earth. There are males, females, and horses.
However, your interaction chart was not equivalent to this existing three
sex division. Here is how it goes:

The male of the species desires to kill horse and slay horse and then throw
horse off a cliff.

The female of the species desires to kill horse and impale horse and reduce
horse to ash.

The desires of the horse are unimportant.

//


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:29:21 GMT, Ace Lightning
<[email]> wrote in message id
<[email]>:

 I could take issue with the term "beings" as I prefer "intelligence"
which doesn't require a material form or not a material form such as
life

  however....

 Human beings have used waves for hundreds of years to communicate
without resorting to radio waves.

 The Royal Family are noted for it !  Even Ronald Reagan used it.
I've seen movies of him boarding helicopters.  He used the wave form
of communcation quite frequently.

 AND... if science wishes to look for wavelike intelligence from
"outer space" (whatever that might be) it should I believe be looking
in the waves of oceans given that intelligence from outer space may be
varying the natural wave forms of water in an attempt to communicate
with us.  If there are life forms similar to ourselves ("beings as
life forms": - as an instance of intelligence) then it probably
follows that such beings are water based and live on water based
planets.

 The "natural" tendency of logical water based beings would be to use
water rather than radio, doing so by varying the natural wave forms of
the most abundant material of their (and our) being - that is via the
oceans.  How they would achieve this isn't entirely clear but I'm
assuming they are more advanced than ourselves.  I would imagine it
would be possible to produce minute changes which could be detected
via sensitive equipment.  The moon causes the major wave forms in our
oceans.  There's something called a Fourier Transorm I believe which
was touched upon briefly when I studied elementary electronics.  I
won't attempt to explain it but as I understand it any wave form is
can be analysed as the sum of multiple wave forms ( I may be wrong) so
it should be possible to determine waves from external intelligence..

 I'm not certain if this is relevant but it has a nice java applet :-)

  http://www.falstad.com/fourier/

"This java applet is a simulation that demonstrates Fourier series,
which is a method of expressing an arbitrary periodic function as a
sum of cosine terms. In other words, Fourier series can be used to
express a function in terms of the frequencies (harmonics) it is
composed of. "

 As we ourselves are mostly water then it is also possible that "they"
(and indeed other non "being" forms of intelligence) use our watery
beingness to send signals, given that much of the electrical and
chemical nature of our thinking takes place within a watery host.

 Most of us ignore such signals as we haven't (as yet) determined a
method of reply.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <[email]>,
 "nikolai kingsley" <[email]> wrote:

a radio wave receiver has to be about the same size as the wavelength
so we are talking about big ears big mouth big-----

he would be very popular with the ladies

arf meow arf


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
Bob Bain wrote:

well, an "intelligence" has to be housed in some sort of
structure of matter, or at least energy, in order to be
able to manipulate energy and/or matter.

not to mention sound waves, which are our most basic form
of communication.

sound waves travel quite well through water, and many aquatic
creatures communicate through sound. have you ever heard recordings
of the "songs" of various species of whale? they are clearly
communicating some very complex information in these patterns of
sound, but we aren't intelligent enough to understand them.

yes, it *is* fun to play with...

i know of people who have tried to sing, or play an appropriate
musical instrument, in an effort to reply to the whales in a
form they'd recognize...


author: >parr(*>

subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"edens morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
<[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
| a radio wave receiver has to be about the same
| size as the wavelength so we are talking about
| big ears big mouth big-----
|
| he would be very popular with the ladies

big ears big mouth big antennae big proboscis

And green with 7 legs.  v. popular with ladies of  a certain persuasion.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:48:20 GMT, Ace Lightning
<[email]> wrote in message id
<[email]>:

 That is assuming that there *is* an external reality :-)

  Intelligence as it occurs on Earth (as us) occurs via what we refer
to as chemical reactons occurring within shifting patterns on the
surface of the planet.

 We are not just of this Earth.  We are (as I have mentioned in the
past) a "surface feature" of this planet (noteworthy perhaps but a
planetary feature much like the rings of Saturn or the "red spot" of
Jupiter.  To an alien intelligence such ruptures of the Earth's
surface (which include us) would probably be dismissed as of no
significance or perhaps dismissed as "weather".  We are hardly
observable from near space let alone distant space.

 Matter = Energy.  Energy = Matter.  Neither matter nor energy can be
created or destroyed.

 Ultimately I would suggest that nothing truly "is" unless there is
awareness and with awareness structure needed by awareness is created.

 In the overall scheme of things planets and stars no doubt result
from filtered information with much that constitutes "reality" being
blocked such that an impression of planets and stars is created in
perceiving intelligence.  How much "reality" occurs within, and how
much occurs external to perception is (to me at least) a moot point.

 I tend to question whether light is an external realtiy for instance.

  I find it entirely possible that "light" is a concept created by
human awareness as part of it's peception system (in this case
"vision").

 Indeed.  Most of our communication occurs via sound waves arising
from our ability to create motion in a gas.  The letters we write in
books represent that wave form communciation.  The waves vary with
pitch and intonation and thus we are able to instinctively decipher
these waves.  An alien intelligence would probably communicate via
wave forms much as we do.

 In raising that point I would like to emphasise that the universe is
*not* a digital form.  It is an analog(ue) form.  We live in an age
dominated by "digital technology" while nearly everthing around us is
analog(ue) in nature.

 When science seeks intelligence what scientists appear to be looking
for are "pulses" much like morse code which is essentially a digital
form, not a continuum.

 There is no need for them to probe distances (space) either for
intelligence may be all around us, undetected and invisible.

 From what I recall if you experience a "ragged" wave like form then
it can be reduced to a number of interacting (perfect) sine curves
which represent wave like formations.  Sift out the natural
(background) sine curves from those imposed via communication (speech
for instance) and what you have left probably has meaning to those
able to decipher it, much as we can decipher speech.

 If a zorg of gock sampled (rather than "listened to" as zorg's don't
have ears!) a mixture of bird song, the noise of rain, the clatter of
a jackhammer, the sound of the wind and a human voice saying "Hello
there what's your name ?" sampled from what we refer to as "Earth" the
zorg would probably dismiss the entire collection of wavelets as
random noise from a minor node in a nodal chain.

 The hard part is picking out "Hello, there what's your name?"

 Scientists tend to seek pulse formations representing mathematical
truths which may be counter productive if intelligence (generally) has
little use for math, doesn't use number, has no fingers to count with
and hasn't thought in numeric terms.

 There was suggestion on the radio the other day that some forms of
intelligence may be bombarding us with messages enclosed in matter
that falls to Earth much like a "message in a bottle" sent by marooned
sailors.

 I have (or had) a book on harmonics and the nature of vibrations.

 The mystic Pythagoras was deeply into this as a subject of study....

 ... but he got bogged down in triangles.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

Please present us with your proof of this phenomenon.

//


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:43:41 +1000, "nikolai kingsley"
<[email]> wrote in message id
<[email]>:

 Evidence isn't required when dealing with a philosophical framework.

  The need for evidence is itself part of a philosophical framework
and founded on a belief that the rules of what we call the universe
are static and unchanging.  That itself is a philosophical perspective
and one that hasn't been proven.  Science and particularly Earth based
engineering depends heavily on this assumption.

 Forgetting (as in "completely obliterating any memory") raises the
question as to whether if something has been entirely forgotten and
all memory (or memories) of it erased whether that something ever
existed in the first place... or the second place come to that.

 One can raise xophox of dometricus as an example.  There is no memory
that sophox of dometricus existed.  It doesn't mean that there never
was a sophox of dometricus but given the lack of evidence that there
ever was a sophox of dometricus it is assumed that no such thing,
entity or idea ever was.

 If a universe disappears (as our universe may disappear) along with
all evidence that planets, stars, human beings and human thought ever
were, it's as good as saying they never were. Speculating that
something never was is as good as saying it didn't exist.

 Although you can suggest I forget you responded to my post I recall
your name from numerous postings in the past, and while these memories
linger in the darker recesses of my brain cells as electrical charge
the fact you said something isn't idle speculation and cannot be
dismissed into the realms of minus infinity until the electrical
charge is negated....

 ... for the time being that is.

 I believe you will agree with this...

 If you don't I have a team of people with bolt cutters that can do
marvellous things with your intestines.  If you get my point.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
In article <[email]>,
 Bob Bain <[email]> wrote:

so

do you want butter on your popcorn or cheddar cheese

arf meow arf


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
Bob Bain wrote:

well, "light" in the sense of "visual sensations" is obviously
an artifact of having a visual sense in the first place. but
"light" in the sense of "electromagnetic waves falling into a
certain range of wavelengths/frequencies" has existed since the
beginning of the universe - the universe *began* as an outpouring
of radiation at all possible frequencies. (in that sense, the
biblical creation myth of "Let there be light" is a reasonably
good metaphor.)

although they might well be configured to use a rather different
portion of the frequency spectrum. even here on earth, whales and
dolphins communicate with sounds that go far higher than anything
we can hear, and elephants use "subsonic" (very low frequency)
sounds. and sound is only one form of radiation - as i said, there
could be "beings" who communicate with radio waves, or even light.

that's called the "signal to noise ratio", and, yes, part of the
problem is deciding what's "signal". but in general, the patterns
of "noise" are more random and less complex.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Bob Bain" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...

And this is all we are. We are mundane and trivial, for replicas of each of
us are dotted throughout the universe, at a density of at least 1 per 2.5
cubic light years. This is because people are merely a byproduct of a
planet's survival. You will see another Bob Bain if you but travel outside
your doorstep and into the cosmos.

//


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:21:02 GMT, Ace Lightning
<[email]> wrote in message id
<[email]>:

 The nature of light and many forms of subatomic particle which
includes photons are still much of a mystery.  I do not believe the
universe had a beginning.  I have summarised some thoughts along thise
lines in a LiveJournal entry but didn't expand too heavily on them as
I wallow alone.

 There is much about light that DEPENDS on the observer.  For one
thing the speed of light is philosophically defined as being constant
as it passes the retina of an observer.  There is Schrodinger's cat
for instance which places the survival of a cat upon the observer.

 Where science (and the philosophy of science) fails is rooted in the
belief that humans are god like entitities removed from the universe
rather than being part of that universe.

 Einstein's concepts of light end at the space side of the retina.
They shouldn't.  They should delve deeply into the human perception
system of vision which is where "light" is defined.

 That is simply extrapolating backwards to form a conclusion based on
present states and assumptions about how those states came to be.

 We like to believe that the universe begain as an outpouring of
radidation of all possible frequences.  Some people like to believe in
Adam and Eve.

 Light is only availble to those with vision.  It has no function
outside an "awareness" of light.  It is in my view an internal
construct which illuminates the external.  In my view it doesn't flow
from thre to us but from us to there.

 You are regarding light as being something akin to something that
passes through the lens of a camera to record an image.  My view of
light is that of a projector projecting light into the universe in
order to perceive it via vision.

 As do bats I believe.  They are as blind as bats. They have no
concept of light that we find so essential.  There's is a sightless
world devoid of vision and one ignorant of light which they fail to
generate.  Instead I believe they transmit radar type signals to
discover about their universe.  My view of light is very much that of
a bat transmitting signals outwards seeking form in the external.

 We do, so no doubt there are others :-)

 Define "random" and "less complex".

 Is the "background radiation" of the universe random ?

 What distinguishes a symphony from a group of hobos plucking and
blowing into "musical instruments" ?

 A symphony may be pleasing to the human ear but discordant to a zorg
of pollock.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
"Ace Lightning" <[email]> wrote in message
news:[email]...
| [...] as i said, there could be "beings" who communicate with
| radio waves, or even light.  [...]

Don't humen communicate with light?  <waves>


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
">parr(*>" <[email]> wrote in message
news:chq7oj$7da$[email]...

Light is such a boor. All it ever wants to talk about is order and charity.

//


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
">parr(*>" <[email]> kirjoitti viestissï¿½
news:chq7oj$7da$[email]...
It's the intensity of the symbols, that they call light


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
">parr(*>" wrote:

not by directly emitting and modulating it. we do, however,
require light in order to use many of our methods of
communication. although the primary mode, of course, involves
sound, which we do directly emit, modulate, and detect.


subject: Re: Snail Ear

text:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 21:13:41 GMT, Ace Lightning
<[email]> wrote in message id
<[email]>:

 There is evidence that non-verbal communication (body language) takes
precedence over verbal communication.  If someone makes a statement in
person to person/people communication and his/her non-verbal
communication conflicts with the verbal message the non-verbal is
likely to be the message that is heard.

 In practice both are used together.

 Say "I like vegemite" and people will believe you.

 Say "I like vegemite" while scratching the head and people will
ponder on the belief in that statement.

 There was a segment on morning TV (Sydney) today where a visiting
American "important person of some description" was offered his first
taste of a vegemite sandwich.  He took one bite, said how great it
tasted and then folded it in two and took a large gulp of mineral
water.

 There's nothing like diplomacy...


author: Blazing Tattles Magazine

subject: Fw.: Stossel and his Industry Mouthpieces Are at It Again

text:
Please send as far and wide as possible.

Thanks,

Robert Sterling
Editor, The Konformist
http://www.konformist.com
http://www.konformist.com/2001/stossel2001.htm

Stossel and his Industry Mouthpieces Are at It Again
by Barbara Keeler & Robert Sterling

In 2000, John Stossel gave ABC News a black eye with his falsehoods,
half-truths, and industry-funded mouthpieces on himself may exemplify
his his Feb. 4 "20/20" report, "The Food You Eat," essentially a
hatchet job on organic food production. After the truth came out, he
was forced to apologize on the air.

Not that he reformed. John Stossel's ABC assault on environmentalists
relies on industry-funded "experts" incorrect "facts," selected and
twisted facts, and the exclusion of facts that might call his
allegations into question. In addition to misinformation, Stossel
builds his case almost exclusively on logical fallacies: straw men,
card-stacking, red herrings, begging the question, glittering
generalities, band wagon, and if I forgot any, the chances are
Stossel did not. He raises logical fallacy to an art form, presenting
unqualified or biased sources, representing opinions as facts,
offering overgeneralizations or faulty generalizations, attributing
effects to incorrect causes, using faulty comparisons, either/or
reasoning to force interviewees activists and viewer to choose
between two extreme positions, resting arguments on unsound premises,
offering irrelevant ideas or facts as support for his conclusions.

The first straw man he fashions, an alleged environmentalist claim
that humans should return to primitive living, becomes the framework
of his argument. He spends the rest of the program taking shots at
his own straw man. He argues against what "many people say."
Apparently he cannot find anyone idiotic enough to actually make the
statements he wants to counter, so Stossel makes them himself,
prefaced by "many people say." He overgeneralizes to say that
environmentalistS claim wE should not "tamper with nature" AT ALL,
rather than in selected cases such as releasing new potentially
destructive transgenes to multiply throughout the food supply and
earth's ecosystems. The straw man/rebuttal strategy is repeated
throughout.

Stossel baits adults and children alike with yes and no questions,
and cuts them off before they have time to explain or defend their
out of context quotes. Cutting well-informed activists short, he
takes time to draw out the least articulate and informed. He gets
kids to make statements that I can support with facts, but makes the
statements sound ridiculous, suggesting that the kids are brainwashed
parrots. In fact, kids said nothing that the brainwashed parrot
Barbara Keeler has not written, that has not been reported in such
publications as the Los Angeles Times, and little that Senator
Barbara Boxer has not stated in different and better words. Unlike
the Senator and Keeler, the kids did not have the time, preparation,
or the language skills to present a full case.

Stossel used a few selected facts, such as that certain measured
pollutants are lower in LA than they used to be, to prove that the
country is less polluted, ignoring a. the areas and pollutants that
are much worse than before, and b. that the improvement is the result
of environmentalism, and the exercise of the same strategies the
environmentalists continue to push. Environmental concern elected the
politicians who pushed the strategies through, with industry fighting
them every step of the way.

Stossel's scientific experts' funding sources were not revealed, One
industry-funded mouthpiece, Patrick Michaels, alleged that a huge
amount of funding motivates scientists to say emissions are a factor
in global warming. Laughable, when you see where the money is really
coming from. Here are Stossel's experts.

1.Sallie Baliunas, Staff Astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian
Astrophysical Observatory and Deputy Director of the Mount Wilson
Institute. Adjunct Professor at Tennessee State University. Chair of
the Science Advisory Board of the Marshall Institute.

(www.marshall.org/aboutpg.html April 30, 2001) Scientific advisor for
the Greening Earth Society (Front group for Western Fuels Ass.).

(http://www.greeningearthsociety.org/advisors.htm April 30, 2001)

2. Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Dept. of
Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia. Virginia State
Climatologist. American Association of State Climatologists and
Program Chair of the Applied Climatology Committee of the American
Meteorological Society. Funding from and/or was underwritten by the
Western Fuels Association (a consortium of coal interests), German
and American coal interests, Cyprus Minerals Company. (Ozone Action,
http://www.Ozone.org (3-1-2000); and Ross Gelbspan, The Heat is On
(Perseus Books, 1998 updated.), pp. 40-3, 202-11). Scientific advisor
for the Greening Earth Society which is funded by the Western Fuels
Association.

(http://www.greeningearthsociety.org/advisors.htm April 30, 2001)

3. Richard S. Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology
at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (in other words, he has
a job because they fund his position.)

Alfred P. Sloan Foundation is a "nonprofit" institution, established
in 1934 by Alfred Pritchard Sloan, Jr., then President and Chief
Executive Officer of the General Motors Corporation.
http://www.sloan.org/main.htm.

Lindzen seems to feel slighted by his failure to find a publisher or
respect for a paper he wrote about greenhouse gasses and global
warming, saturated with illogical argument and short on information
other than what one can find in a middle school earth science
textbook. The few "facts" are often at odds with what the rest of the
scientific community has established by actual measurement. He
ridicules the methods used to assess conditions in the future--
extrapolation and computer models--without mentioning that all the
alternative explanations for current climate phenomena rely on the
same strategies. Whether hypothesizing data from the past or
projecting into the future, scientists must extrapolate from known
facts and, in this day and age, run it by the computer.

The other scientist is from NASA.

These scientists are presented as experts on global warming, about
which they present no data. Their function is to snigger and "tsk"
about what environmentalists supposedly say, bleed for the terrorized
children, make unsupportable economic predictions, and talk about who
agrees on what. None of the above requires even a high school diploma.

The only data presented about global warming flits by so fast that
the viewer cannot tell that it is entirely unclear what it is
measuring--not average daily temps because the temps on the graph are
below freezing.

Another expert, former Greenpeace activist Pat Moore, quit GP to work
for the timber industry, supposedly on a matter of principle. Maybe
the principle had to do with how much he should be paid. He is
presented as an expert on deforestation, global warming, and genetic
engineering.

[The other expert on genetic engineering, Lee M. Silver, promotes
cloning in his writings (most notably in the book Beyond Eded)
predicting only the wealthy will afford cloning, and soon we will
split into an uncloned working class and a cloned ruling class. These
views are not aired on ABC--only his "expert" comments on genetic
engineering and cloning.]

Stossel cites a "hysteria" about global warming. Personally, I
remember more public hysteria when an unpopular Barbie doll hit the
market.

BGH, he claims, is safe because the FDA, NIH, and AMA say it is. In
fact, AMA does not, and FDA's approval was so flawed that it prompted
three government investigations.

Stossel suggests that environmentalists, with their piddling
resources, numbers, and funding, are driving the agenda of the
scientific community, whereas environmentalists really need to fight
every step of the way against massive industry funding--100 million a
year by the biotech org alone for PR, and billions to fund
scientists. The fossil fuels industry spends as liberally. If
environmentalists had the power Stossel claims, the country would not
have arsenic standards degraded, and GE organisms throughout the food
supply.

Stossel and ABC have some dubious connections of their own. As the
segment was produced, ABC was receiving a percentage of sales
from "Stossel in the Classroom," educational materials published by
the Palmer R. Chitester Fund .based on Stossel's ABC reports On the
Board of Associates of the Chitester Fund sits Herb London, the
President of the Hudson Institute, employer of Stossel's main hatchet
man against organics, Dennis Avery. The Hudson Institute receives
funding from chemical and agribusiness companies such as Monsanto,
DuPont, and ConAgra. The Chitester Fund itself relies heavily on
contributions from organizations regarded as ultra conservative, and
boasts a board of high-profile right wingers.

The Chitester Fund relies on contributions from the Olin Foundation.
Olin also gave to the Hudson Institute $125,000 in 1993 and $300,000
in 1994. The Olin Foundation was created and is still controlled by
the Olin Corporation, a top producer of agricultural chemicals.
Furthermore, Olin was, along with Occidental Chemical and Dupont, one
of the major firms involved in the Love Canal environmental scandal
in Niagara Falls, NY.

The question remains if ABC, Stossel, or his sources are "bought" by
their financial ties with industry. What is obvious is that such an
interbreeding of interests is potentially corruptive, and Stossel's
programs about agribusiness and the environment do not exactly rule
out such a corruptive influence. The viewing public deserves more
truth, better balance, and less industry bias than Stossel's programs
have provided.

If you are interested in a free subscription to The
Konformist Newswire,  please visit:

http://www.eGroups.com/list/konformist

Or, e-mail  [email] with the
subject: "I NEED 2 KONFORM!!!"

(Okay, you can use something else, but it's a kool
catch phrase.)

Visit the Klub Konformist at Yahoo!:

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/klubkonformist


author: wxrisk

subject: Re: Fw.: Stossel and his Industry Mouthpieces Are at It Again

text:
You are a left wing kook and environmental whacko  and a  lying no good
sonfabitch.
 Go have sex with the Taliban.  John Stoseel is a OUTSTANDING  reporter
and your group  suicks cow shit.

DT
wxrisk.com

Blazing Tattles Magazine wrote:


author: Mike Scirocco

text:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1060000/1060125.stm

Blazing Tattles Magazine wrote:

Who cares if he disagrees with other people. There is obviously a
LOT of scientific debate about this, no matter what you feel.
Myself, I'll wait for the scientific data and ignore excited
opinionated people. Here are a couple of articles from the BBC web
site Science section.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1060000/1060125.stm

Thursday, 7 December, 2000, 19:00 GMT

              Fossils nag at carbon's climate role

              The research will fuel climate arguments
              By environment correspondent Alex Kirby

              Researchers who have examined the fossil
              record say it questions the role of carbon
              dioxide (CO2) as the main force driving climate
              variability.

              They first reconstructed temperatures
              throughout the period of significant life on
              Earth from the fossilized shells of marine
              organisms.

              They then attempted a second climate
              reconstruction for the same time period, using
              a computer model.

              And they found several significant mismatches
              between the two.

              The researchers, Jan Veizer from the Ruhr
              University in Germany and the Ottawa-Carleton
              Geoscience Center, Canada, and two
              colleagues from Liege University in Belgium,
              report their work in the journal Nature.

              Their first reconstruction of tropical sea
              surface temperatures during the Phanerozoic
              eon, dating from 544 million years ago, used a
              database of oxygen isotopes in calcite and
              aragonite shells.

              Conflicting data

              "The data indicate large oscillations of tropical
              sea surface temperatures in phase with the
              cold-warm cycles [between glacial and
              interglacial periods], thus favoring the idea of
              climate variability as a global phenomenon,"
              they write.

              "But our data conflict with a temperature
              reconstruction using an energy balance model
              that is forced by reconstructed atmospheric
              CO2 concentrations. The results can be
              reconciled if atmospheric CO2 concentrations
              were not the principal driver of climate
              variability on geological time scales for at least
              one third of the Phanerozoic eon, or if the
              reconstructed CO2 concentrations are not
              reliable."

              It is during two periods, the glaciation of the
              Late Ordovician period around 440 million years
              ago, and the cool climate of the Jurassic and
              early Cretaceous (about 220-120 million years
              ago), that expectations based on the CO2
              record contradict the fossil data.

              According to the second reconstruction,
              tropical temperatures should have been higher
              than today during these two cold periods.

              The researchers say their findings have several
              possible implications. It could be that the
              reconstructed past CO2 levels are partly
              incorrect. There is also the chance that
              climate models are calibrated to the present
              and are therefore unable to reproduce
              correctly past climate modes.

              But they say there is a third possibility: that
              "the role of CO2 as the main driving force of
              past global (long-term) climate changes is
              questionable, at least during two of the four
              main cool climate modes of the Phanerozoic".

              'Climate driver'

              In an article in the same issue of Nature, Lee
              Kump, of the Earth Systems Science Center at
              Pennsylvania State University, US, discusses
              the researchers' findings.

              "Clearly", he says, "factors other than
              atmospheric CO2 can influence climate on
              geological time scales."

              He says their conclusion that CO2 "may not be
              the climate driver it has been made out to be
              deserves close scrutiny, because the policy
              implications are huge".

              "If large changes in atmospheric CO2 in the
              past have not produced the climate response
              we thought they had, that undermines the
              case for reducing fossil fuel emissions."

              He considers the Jurassic mismatch "more
              persistent and problematic" than that of the
              Late Ordovician, though he says that neither
              of "these seeming paradoxes" is new.

              But he concludes that it is perhaps not the
              role of CO2 in driving climate change that we
              need to question, but rather the value of
              "proxy" [indirect] measurements of ancient
              CO2 levels, based in this instance on the
              carbon isotopic composition of organic matter
              in marine sediments.

              "When we put everything we know into models
              of the carbon cycle", Lee Kump writes, "we
              predict changes in atmospheric CO2 that
              largely parallel inferred climate shifts. So the
              lack of close correspondence between climate
              change and proxy indicators of atmospheric
              CO2 may force us to re-evaluate the proxies,
              rather than disavow the notion that
              substantially increased atmospheric CO2 will
              indeed lead to marked warming in the future."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/climate_change/newsid_1017000/1017204.stm

Questioning global warming

              Drought is a problem across the world
              By BBC News Online's Jonathan Amos

              There is nothing so hot as the debate that has
              surrounded global warming.

              Most mainstream scientists believe that human
              activity - notably emissions of greenhouse
              gases - has contributed to a significant
              increase in the average surface temperature of
              the planet.

              However, there is still a sizable group of
              researchers who dissent from this consensus.

              They question much of the science which
              underpins the global warming hypothesis:

               Urban heat islands

              Data from weather stations on land and at sea
              have been used to reconstruct variations in
              the Earth's annual mean surface temperature
              over the past century.

              These show a warming in the range 0.3-0.60C
              over the period. But the skeptics doubt
              whether much, or any, of the warming can be
              linked to increases in C02.

              They make the point that much of the data
              comes from weather stations close to towns
              and cities. The warming may simply reflect the
              heat associated with the growth of those
              towns and cities.

              Any "real" warming that may exist once this
              bias has been properly extracted falls well
              within the "noise" of natural climate variability.

                   See also: Little evidence

               Satellites and balloons

              Skeptics emphasize the inconsistencies
              between the surface temperature records and
              the data produced by satellite and balloon
              studies.

              The latter show little if any warming in the last
              two decades of the low to mid troposphere -
              the atmospheric layer extending up to about
              8 km from the Earth's surface.

              Climate models generally predict that
              temperatures should increase in the upper air
              as well as at the surface if increased
              concentrations of greenhouse gases are
              causing the warming recorded at ground level.

                   See also: Looking for the greenhouse
                   signal

               Questionable computers

              Skeptics say the scenarios of future climate
              change that are produced by computer models
              are deeply flawed. They believe the task of
              simulating the complexities of our climate
              system is beyond the capabilities of even the
              fastest super computers.

              Certain phenomena, such as cloud formation,
              oceanic heat transport and the mixing of the
              air, are still so poorly understood that certain
              assumptions have to be made about the way
              the atmosphere behaves.

              The skeptics challenge these assumptions and
              argue that any modeling is fatally undermined
              as a result.

               Fashionable Sun

              There is a growing movement that argues that
              the Sun is a more significant factor in climate
              change than the rising load of man-made
              heat trapping gasses in the atmosphere.

              It has been suggested that the solar wind and
              the Sun's magnetic field can limit the number
              of cosmic rays (high energy particles) that
              enter the Earth's atmosphere. The cosmic rays
              are said to collide with air molecules to
              produce secondary particles that seed the
              cloud types that act to cool the Earth.

              In other words, increased solar activity means
              fewer cosmic rays, fewer clouds, and more
              warming.

              Some greenhouse skeptics argue that this
              correlation between Earth temperature and
              solar activity is better and smoother than for
              any correlation with CO2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


text:
Blazing Tattles Magazine wrote:

This is really sad to me. I have seen a few shows of his and I
really liked him. My perception of him then was that he had
integrity.

It sounds like he's really dropping the ball. We're embroiled in
conflicts in the Middle East, probably because of oil. Yet about
half the vehicles sold in the last 2 years in the US were gas
guzzling SUV's. And since REagan ripped the solar panels off of
the White House and gutted alternative energy research, the gov't
doesn't appear to have helped a whole lot to make us less reliant
on oil and internal combustion powered transportation.

I would like to see the legal loopholes that allowed SUV's to be
exempt from passenger vehicle higher mileage targets done away
with. And I would like to see tax breaks for people using any sort
of solar, wind, or geothermal devices.

It's too bad Stossel didn't take advantage of this time to remind
people of the importance of getting away from foreign oil.


text:
Blazing Tattles Magazine wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://inq.philly.com/content/inquirer/2001/04/23/magazine/watch23.htm

Lindzen notes that the future rate of temperature rise is very
much in doubt. For that matter, the temperature record is not
absolutely clear.

Surface readings have shown significant warming, especially in the
last 10 years, but satellite data provide a somewhat different
picture. Using microwave profiles of the bottom five miles of the
atmosphere, Christy and NASA's Roy Spencer have compiled a record
showing only a tiny increase in global temperature since 1979.
Warming in the Northern Hemisphere has been counterbalanced by
cooling in the Southern Hemisphere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please provide a url to the paper you're describing. He sounds
smart enough to me.


text:
Blazing Tattles Magazine wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.scientificamerican.com/2001/1101issue/1101profile.html

In March, Lindzen published what he calls "potentially the most
important" paper he's written about negative feedback from water
vapor. In it, he concludes that warming would decrease tropical
cloud cover. Cloud cover is a complicated subject. Depending on
factors that change by the minute, clouds can cool (by reflecting
sunlight back into space) or warm (by trapping heat from the
earth). Lindzen states that a reduction in tropical cloudiness
would produce a marked cooling effect overall and thus serve as a
stabilizing negative feedback.

But three research teams say Lindzen's paper is flawed. For
example, his research was based on data collected from satellite
images of tropical clouds. Bruce A. Wielicki of the NASA Langley
Research Center believes that the images were not representative
of the entire tropics. Using data from a different satellite,
Wielicki and his group conclude, in a paper to appear in the
Journal of Climate, that, on balance, warmer tropical clouds would
have a slight heating, not a cooling, effect.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like he published his paper just fine, if this is the
one you're referring to.

Also, that is the beauty of the scientific method, science marches
forward, absorbing both successes and failures. A devil's advocate
keeps everybody from doing a 'group-think' kind of thinking,
getting more excited than they should about an idea. It keeps
people honest.

Whether Lindzen is 100% right, or completely wrong, I'm glad he's
out there, forcing people to use facts and good research to back
up their opinions. I certainly think he deserves more credit than
you've given him.


author: Don Libby

text:
Blazing Tattles Magazine wrote:

Amos Keppler:  http://home.enitel.no/civilization/howto.html

-dl


author: Nigel M.

text:
On 14 Oct 2001 09:25:57 GMT, "Blazing Tattles Magazine"
<[email]> did write, or cause to appear, hereinunder
or as incorporated herein by reference:

Dick Lindzen is a highly regarded if idiosyncratic scientist who falls
into the camp of "principled skeptics."  Your comments on Pat Michaels
and others are on target, but to smear Lindzen through
guilt-by-association is unfair.  Lindzen's arguments are definitely
minority positions, and I don't personally agree with them, but there
are no reasonable grounds to question his motives.

I have not seen Lindzen's specific paper you mention and would
appreciate your providing a way for us to access it.  In view of
Lindzen's work over his career I would be astounded if he wrote a
paper that was "saturated with illogical argument and short on
information other than what one can find in middle school earth
science. "  (Notice that the latter might in fact be appropriate if
the paper is intended for a lay audience.)

Personal attacks on a principled scientist who happens to disagree
with you reflects more poorly on you than on those you attack.