text:
Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/May 2007

Regarding grants...
I was thinking a bit about grants; I believe we have had a bit of discussion at Wikiversity about grants. It dawned on me that perhaps one way Wikiversity could utilize grants is as bounties (see: Wikipedia:Bounty_board).

A collaborative grant could be written. If the best stable version of the grant was approved and funded, then a trusted member of the community who could actually be held responsible for the funds (identity verification?) could be responsible for paying out fulfilled bounties related to whatever project was allocated the grant money. I'm not familiar with how grant funds are actually allocated from a logistical POV, so details would need to be worked out. This perhaps seems to be a realistic possibility presuming it can be kept within the scope of what Wikiversity is. --Remi 07:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

 * There are a few Wikiversity pages related to grants (see Category:Grants) and there is a list of possible funding sources at Wikiversity NPC. I'm not sure who is in charge of grants at the Wikimedia Foundation level. Danny resigned from his position. --JWSchmidt 14:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Slogan contest complete - Motto contest continues to May 12
Please help us finish selecting the final motto: Motto_contest. It is suggested that the Motto contest end on May 12, 2007.

The winning slogan is "set learning free".

Summary of final round of slogan contest: The Wikiversity slogan is a phrase for listing at top of main page with "Welcome to Wikiversity". "Set learning free" had 68% of the positive support statements in round 5. There were 30 support statements for "set learning free". "Knowledge is free" had 4 in support and "Because knowledge should be free" had 10 in support. The latter 2 options had 3 comments each against use. "Set learning free" had no statements against. As for the wording of "set learning free" vs "learning set free," a few more people preferred "set learning free".

Archive of discussions: Motto_contest/Round_6

Thank you for your participation! --Reswik 14:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello, I am a custodian on the French Wikiversity and I wonder what we should do of the slogan Set learning free. Are we supposed to translate it by ourselves and use it or should we ask for a translation on beta or meta ? Thanks for your help. Julien1311 talk 17:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Julien, The the choice of the slogan for the English wikiversity involves, mostly, considerations in the English language. The choice of the slogan for the French wikiversite should involve considerations in the French language.  Beta is a good place for coordinating this effort by various wikiversities, if we choose to do so. Hillgentleman|Talk 02:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

YouTube for educational video
www.sutree.com

Just an idea :) -- Taeke 07:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a good idea, too imo. Don't forget about the Internet audio and video department and WikiU Film School for those who want to get into video production and a YouTube learning project. -- CQ 14:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This sounds familiar --Rayc 23:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

notification for changes to individual Wikiversity pages
I'm not sure how long this feature has been available, but I just found out about it. Web feeds are now available for individual Wikiversity pages by clicking on the "history" tab for a page. See Web syndication. --JWSchmidt 14:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Tending the garden...
This past week, McCormack has been instrumental in mopping up vandalism on the front page. I put cascading protection on it today. I'm wondering whether we should keep it there, or lift it later? I'm concerned that leaving the page protected might send a messages that this is not an open wiki...but how to best balance this against sporadic vandalism? --HappyCamper 20:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

 * The same guy has been coming back in different guises as a differently registered user for some time now. He's a regular, with a profile. We have no choice but to fully protect the main page and all of its templates. With reaction times by admins at 20-30 minutes, and a potential audience of children, to do anything other than a full protect of vulnerable pages would be irresponsible on our part. Sad, but we must act. McCormack 20:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Not to mention unprofessional, and a host of other things. Here's my thinking...as much as I don't want to protect the front page, I think keeping the front page protected is the sensible compromise. After all, we want to attract good edits, not bad edits! On another note, I think custodians should put those pages related to the front page on their watchlists so that requests for editing can be fulfilled quickly. (BTW: I think cascading protection seems to be working now, although the pages don't seem to indicate this properly). --HappyCamper 21:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Cascading protection stopped working a while back, so I started doing direct semi-protection for all the individual main page content pages. If cascading protection is working again now, that is good. Probably the best way to get the attention of a custodian is to come to the IRC channel #wikiversity-en. There are often several custodians "in there" who will hear their computers say "admin" if you type "admin" in the channel. If that does not work, you can go to #wikimedia-stewards and get help from a steward. Also, it might be useful to start using CheckUser to help deal with serial vandals. --JWSchmidt 22:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia Foundation mission and neutral educational content
The most recent WikipediaWeekly episode mentions changes in the Wikimedia Foundation Mission statement (see Resolution:Mission and Vision statement). Last year a draft version of the mission statement said "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower people around the world to collect and develop knowledge under a free license, and to disseminate it effectively and globally." A version currently being discussed says, "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop neutral educational content under a free content license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally." On WikipediaWeekly, the word "neutral" was linked to one of the original Wikipedia policies, the policy for neutral point of view. Wikiversity was mentioned as a Wikimedia Foundation project that is not locked into the traditional Neutral point of view (NPOV) policy that is used at other projects such as Wikipedia. In particular, we have a Disclosures policy which attempts to provide "wiggle room" for Wikiversity participants so that some Wikiversity content would be allowed to depart from a neutral point of view. Does "neutral educational content" imply content that is governed by the traditional NPOV policy? If the Wikimedia Foundation does adopt a mission statement calling for "neutral educational content" would that be acceptable to the Wikiversity community? The "Disclosures" policy calls for Wikiversity to strive for neutrality but attempts to allow for academic freedom and scholarly explorations that might need to go outside of the confines of NPOV. --JWSchmidt 22:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't want to ignore this question, but my hunch is that at best we will have to wait for the ambiguity to clear up before we can figure out what the implications for Wikiversity are... --HappyCamper 19:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

 * There are a number of spots that "Neutral Point of View" doesn't really make sense, and one policy does not fit all projects. In education and research, you are tackling different points of view on a subject, and sometimes they might not even be your own view. NPOV makes sense when you are writing an Encyclopedia, but not everything is an Encyclopedia. Historybuff 00:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I think the concept of neutrality is very problematic - however, it has been used to practical effect in Wikipedia. But, even in Wikipedia, I think that NPOV is usefully conceptualised as the means rather than the end - the end being quality. This leads me to believe that, here on Wikiversity, we should think about the quality of an educational experience, and to do as best we can to facilitate that experience. I think that following the spirit of NPOV would be to encourage people to think broadly about a topic - to engage with differing points of view in order to come to a deeper understanding of each point of view, the context of each point of view, and to sharpen their own point(s) of view. If we could encourage this process, this would, I believe, be completely within the NPOV frame of reference. I fully believe in the place for academic freedom, to explore a point of view on its own terms, and the potential this gives for rich educational experiences - but I feel that we should be going one better than emulating a system where academic traditions simply don't speak to each other. I think a broad-minded, collaborative model is a better fit for a project like Wikiversity. I think the Disclosures policy is a good start for Wikiversity to begin to really understand how knowledge is produced and communicated, and that as long as we can show differing points of view in the context of a debate, then we will be building on the good work started by Wikipedia. And, just to respond to HappyCamper's point - this "ambiguity" is still in negotiation - this is a Wikimedia-wide debate, and I would encourage Wikiversity participants to join these discussions, via mailing lists and/or wikis, to help construct a sustainable vision that will work for every project, and all together. Cormaggio talk 12:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Interest Group
I'd like to propose a Category:Internal Medicine Interest Group. I'm not sure if this is the place to propose this, but it would be helpful so that people of similar interests can find each other. Any suggestions?PalMD 17:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

 * We have Project requests and Matchmaking board, but traffic on these pages is quite low. So far, it seems that participants just click on recent changes, and if they see something interesting, they'll jump in and help out. This also means that the more edited pages tend to get more attention. --HappyCamper 19:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Perhaps my understanding of the current way Wikiversity works is a bit askewed. However, as I understand it, this is not like Wikia where if you want to start a Wikia, you need to propose it and get it approved. While organization, and consensus are great, if you see something at Wikiversity that you feel is or perceive as lacking, you are free to just go ahead and create it yourself. Be bold.

 * Scope might be a useful page. --Remi 08:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

RFCU?
If the community is not yet ready for checkusers, perhaps we may request it on meta.--Hillgentleman|Talk 10:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There was a discussion of this on IRC the other day. Yes, we want a checkuser. No, a suitable volunteer can't be found. There is some opinion that it shouldn't be a bureaucrat, because power shouldn't become too centralised. It probably also needs to be someone who actually understands IP addresses. McCormack 04:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I suggest User:SB_Johnny who has been doing CheckUser work at Wikibooks. See also: CheckUser policy. --JWSchmidt 04:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

...
I'm trying to put * ,  - Department founded! within the Template:Original department boilerplate so that when someone uses the template, they won't have to input the date. The ways I have tried it, it does not display properly - it statically substitutes the date in the template, not dynamically. Is there a way to do this so it is dynamic? --Remi 07:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * , or . See m:help:substitution, and welcome for an example. On meta it is called delayed substitution, or includeonly magic.Hillgentleman|Talk 08:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * For a cut-and-paste version, you would need to use subst: CURRENTMONTHNAME}}, saving as May. Hillgentleman|Talk 09:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Fix the motto?
Hi,

On your top page, I couldn't help noticing the motto right under "WIKIVERSITY":

Welcome to Wikiversity,

set learning free.

That's a run-on sentence, dudes. Instead, may I suggest?:

Welcome to Wikiversity.

Set learning free.

Cheers, Andy (Vancouver, Canada)
 * I agree. Also possible are "to set learning free", setting learning free...: ) --Hillgentleman|Talk 10:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Some stylised corporate mission-statements are shown in all-lower-case. It's a design-thing rather than a grammatical thing.

Please see a suggestion for further discussion of this issue below: Colloquium. Thanks, --Reswik 16:02, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Brainstorming Meeting for French
Could someone explain to me how the whole chat things works so that I can set up a brainstorming meeting for the French Department?Elatanatari 17:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "the whole chat thing" <-- Do you want to use internet relay chat (text) or voice? --JWSchmidt 22:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

textElatanatari 23:52, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Sorry Elatanatari, have you been able to figure this out yet? Does Chat or the Wikipedia IRC article help at all? (I think we definitely need a better local page about how to use IRC than simply Chat.) Elatanatari, what computer system are you using - Mac, PC, Linux..? Can you download software to your computer? Do you use Firefox? Cormaggio talk 13:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I figured it out, Thanks! Elatanatari 20:02, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Did this get scheduled? Did I miss it? Historybuff 14:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Issues with categories...
It is my understanding that the standards for naming are that categories should be named like "Category:Emergency medicine" and not "Category:Emergency Medicine". This has the benefit of being more compatible with Wikipedia and probably other Wikimedia Wikis. On the other hand, one could make the argument that "a course" is a proper noun, and therefore if one wants to categorize pages according to what course they are part of, the category should be capitalized. That is, on a syllabus, you would see "Research Methods in Psychology" at the top; according to my recollection, you would not see, "Research methods in psychology" as the syllabus title. There is the option of having both categories on an applicable page, too. It seems to me that there is a great deal of information and knowledge here Wikiversity, it can just be difficult to see because of the way the information is organized. Luckily, MediaWiki is astonishingly flexible. --Remi 05:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

 * IMHO, if we mix course names with categories, this is a hierarchical error. It dilutes the critical category system. There are other, and better ways, for holding together pages within a project. Internal project navigation should use infoboxes or navbars placed at the top of a project. BTW, I think your re-organisational efforts are great! McCormack 08:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "if we mix course names with categories, this is a hierarchical error" <-- There is nothing wrong with having a category for all of the pages in a course. A single course could have hundreds of pages and categories are a fundamental tool for organizing related pages. "project navigation should use infoboxes or navbars" <-- this is true, and we really need to make an effort to also use these tools to organize Wikiversity projects. So far we have just a few "navigation templates". There are many good examples of navigation templates at Wikipedia. See also w:Wikipedia:Navigational templates. We really need to start being more sophisticated about our page navigation tools here at Wikiversity. --JWSchmidt 13:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm also wondering about category names and capitalization and agree about the sophistication aspect. Maintenance now contains links to Categories and Templates as tasks and taskforces. Some of the issues mentioned here are being covered. -- CQ 15:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The javascript of NavFrame (?)
Is it possible?(see:mediawiki:common.js, mediawiki:common.css) -Hillgentleman|Talk 14:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * To make the links in the table of content for collapsed section operational?
 * a switch for "opening all navframes on a page"?
 * a switch for "opening all subframes of a frame"?
 * Additional discussion at Talk:Threaded discussions with NavFrames. --JWSchmidt 16:25, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Changes to the main page
For the first two months after the launch of this website there was a major effort to import the existing pages that had been created by the Wikiversity community at Wikibooks (page imports). By December, most of those imported pages had been fit into the new namespace structure of this website. The old hierarchy of Wikibooks "school" and "department" content development projects was integrated into the new school and topic namespaces. At that time, I thought Wikiversity was ready to begin making the Main Page more useful to new participants and I started Main page design changes. For the next four months there was not much interest from the community in changing the Main Page so I moved on to other tasks such as creating major portals with featured content. Finally, this month there seems to be an increase in interest in the task of making Wikiversity more welcoming to new visitors, a task which logically involves asking exactly what the Main Page should accomplish. Three specific questions are: Please participate at Main page design changes if you want to help plan improvements for the Main Page. --JWSchmidt 15:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Should the main page be designed to help new visitors understand Wikiversity?
 * 2) Is the Main Page bias towards college-level content preventing people from participating if they are interested in non-college-oriented learning?
 * 3) How should we fit the Wikiversity slogan onto the main page?

My answers, in order, would be: To flesh out: As regards the pre-tertiary portal, I was vaguely thinking of giving a few weeks for comment to collect and settle, and then give it a shot, in the light of comments given. I haven't forgotten it. -- McCormack 04:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) No.
 * 2) Question needs reformulating.
 * 3) Not important.
 * 1) I'm familiar with your concept of everything as a learning project, but assuming WV is a learning project, then a disproportionate amount of the main page is given over to this single project. The Wikipedia way is to use the main page mostly for accessing a wide variety of content and to rotate these content access points. I think Wikiversity needs to follow this familiar model. The dominant "help/learn about WV" should be reduced to a sidebar or lower panel, or a separate portal. Having seen how much time and care you've personally put into WV as a learning project, I can appreciate this might be a difficult time for trying on new glasses.
 * 2) There's little level bias, because there's little room for any bias, given the dominance of the WV learning project (which is neither tertiary nor pre-tertiary). On the other hand, as I glance down the page, I see terms constantly cropping up which have a clear tertiary bias (e.g. names of faculties, mentions of research). I'd say there is an absence of obviously pre-tertiary openness.
 * 3) As I said, I think 3 is not important.

 * "Wikiversity needs to follow this familiar model [Wikipedia's main page]" <-- Why? Wikipedia's main page design serves a much more mature wiki project where most visitors are looking for existing content. At the start of any wiki project the main need of the wiki community is totally different. The main need for a new project is to explain the project to new visitors and attract new participants (the editors who will create the content). The sidebar is a convenient tool for experienced wiki participants who know from past experience what the cryptic names of the links mean. It is an error to expect new visitors to puzzle out tersely worded links in the sidebar. I don't understand the comment about new glasses and "difficult time". As an explicitly and fundamentally education-oriented project, Wikiversity should lead the way among Wikimedia Foundation projects in finding ways to help people learn about how to participate in wiki communities in general and Wikiversity in particular. Maybe five years from now when Wikiversity has lots of learning resources and we have taught the world how learn by editing wikis then it will be time to adopt a Wikipedia-style main page. This is not the time for Wikiversity to pretend to be Wikipedia. "There's little level bias" <-- We could do a test and have a group of pre-college educators look at the Main Page. I don't have any doubt what they would say. In my mind, the deeper question is, even if the Main Page and the Browse page were less biased towards university-level content, would more pre-college educators and learners participate at Wikiversity? Nobody said that #3 is particularly important, it is just a related issue that has arisen at this time. We need to decide if we want to use the tagline feature on the Main Page. --JWSchmidt 05:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I largely agree with you, JWS. The dilemma over WV's current stage of development (is it a learning project or does it provide content?) is a difficult one to resolve - particularly when "it will be time to adopt a Wikipedia-style main page". I think there is some international divergence of practice between the 4 wikiversities on this point. The work you have put into WV as a learning project is impressive. "would more pre-college educators and learners participate at Wikiversity?" <-- we won't know until we try ;-) -- McCormack 07:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There are five now McCarmack - Italiano Wikiversità has joined the list. It might be a good idea to compare all five Main Pages and "homogenize" some of the layout (but certainly not in a 'cookie-cutter' fashion). I'll add Main page design changes to my watchlist. -- CQ 22:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Minor interface change...
The main namespace pages currently use "article" on the upper left tab, and I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to use either "content" or (following wikibooks) "module" instead. Our content really isn't organized as articles. Any thoughts?--SB_Johnny | talk 17:56, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think "resource" would be good... it might even help distinguish Wikiversity from Wikibooks a bit... kind-of resolving some of the perceived "ambiguity of purpose" when thinking of the relationship between the two projects. Also, these pages have already been identified as "learning resources". CQ 02:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I quite like "resource" in this case (in general i hate the term on web pages) because it can denote a sort of piece of content or 'learning object' or also a resource for stimulating learning, like a learning project. Countrymike 02:50, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Lesson? Hillgentleman|Talk 02:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The name used needs to be very general. We have research project pages that I would not want to have being called "lessons". Wikiversity main namespace content includes many types of learning resources. "learning object" might be as general as "learning resource", but I prefer "learning resource" ("resource" for short). --JWSchmidt 02:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Looks like it changed now to "learning resource", but I think just "resource" might be better (since some pages might be research resources as well as learning resources). Much nicer than article though!--SB_Johnny | talk 10:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

"Wikiversity Junior" (or some other name)
There has been a discussion on IRC about a K-12 portal. Two questions arise: (1) is it a good idea? (probably), and (2) if so, what do we call it (much more difficult). Naming suggestions so far are listed below. Any reaction to either question is welcome. McCormack 05:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * K-12 Portal
 * Wikiversity Junior
 * Wikischool
 * Wikimentary
 * Portal:Elementary and Secondary Educators
 * School:Early Learning

 * It's a great idea in general. I kinda prefer "K-12 portal" myself - however "K-12" isn't a universally recognised term, and naming is going to be inherently problematic. Are "Primary" and "Secondary" more widely understood perhaps? Whatever we do, we can explain this on a Portal:Teachers page (and others), and set up a few redirects from commonly-used words/phrases. (I also then think of people who don't fit into traditional schooling patterns, the best example of whom would be homeschoolers - were Ben or Ariannah Armstrong in on that conversation by any chance?) Cormaggio talk 11:17, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No, they weren't in on it. But I think it would be great if we schedule a chat with a wider range of people, including those with an interest in the area. I think "primary" isn't a great word as some systems prefer "elementary". One needs an all-embracing term for what Americans very efficiently call "K-12" and what everyone else very sanely calls "school" (school being far too synonymous with tertiary education in the US). McCormack 11:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * It would be prudent to try to avoid anything which may look like an artificial boundary. Perhaps portal:wikiversity for adolescences, portal:wikiversity for .  Make it clear that they are no different from anyone else in the community, but the portals might be a place for them to collect useful information. Hillgentleman|Talk 13:09, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your opinion, Hillgentleman. Just to clear up a possible misunderstanding: "K-12" means "Kindergarten to 12th Class", so if you count Kindergarten as 1 year and the first class is called "1st class", that adds up to 13 years of school - i.e. perhaps age 5 to 18. (But I'm not American, so someone may need to correct me). "K-12" does not mean "up to age 12", which I think (??) is what you thought. The boundary we'r talking about is the one between secondary and tertiary education, which in most countries is a huge one. Among other things, staff and pupils have very different timeloads, which affects the way in which they participate in wikis. McCormack 13:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Afterthought: it took me about a year (or more?) to work out the meaning of the term K-12! McCormack 13:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's funny - I never used the term "K-12" until I came to the UK, where it's common parlance among the education department at my university. However, global education systems are so varied that it's going to be impossible to come up with something that's workable in all instances (see: w:Category:Education by country). "Wikiversity Junior" seems to be neutral enough - but it only seems appropriate for younger children (perhaps under 9, or so). I like the idea of scheduling a chat - but it is probably a good idea to brainstorm here or on a specific wiki-page first so that the chat can become most productive. How about Educational stages? And on a slight tangent to this, I also want to delineate educational stages from learner levels - for example, there are many adults who cannot read, and for whom the category "primary" would be inappropriate - I think we have to keep in mind generic terms like "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced" in parallel with considerations for existing, conventional schooling systems. Cormaggio talk 13:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I like K-12 - it is universally accepted - in my state :) We also use elementary, middle, and high school.  Watchout as there might be some curriculum for pre-schoolers and that isn't covered in k-12 (pre K-12 ?). Harriska2 14:42, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's inject a bit of imagination here: What if Wikiversity could house a big education portal, which points to other portals specific to each educational system in the world? In these portals, people could find resources which would link and categorize similar pages? I think we should just make the pages as we see fit, and not be too concerned whether particular terminology would be inclusive or exclusive. If pages don't meet user needs, sooner or later some participant will create it. We have to actively encourage that though. --HappyCamper 15:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * HappyCamper - can you give some examples? "What if Wikiversity could house a big education portal, which points to other portals specific to each educational system in the world?" Harriska2 16:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I've created Pre-tertiary portal to draw together thoughts and act as a basis for further discussion. McCormack 16:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I like HappyCamper's point - perhaps Portal:Educational systems and stages? Or should it be centralised at Portal:Education? Somewhat ironically, I think highlighting a specific block for pre-tertiary resources, while it's a great and necessary idea, suggests in a way that Wikiversity is by default about tertiary resources - which it's not. Cormaggio talk 10:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

 * That's a good point you've got at the end there. I wondering about the meaning of "is" as in "is not about tertiary resources by default". is = by definition, in reality, in appearance ?? My line would be "is at risk of being perceived as...". I'm adding your name suggestions to the Pre-tertiary portal . McCormack 11:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I personally like the idea, and as mentioned above the splitting up of K-12 because of the number of ages between. I happen to got a school where its K-12, so I happen to know what it means. Providing resources for students, such as advancing your kids(k-6) into higher education before the school takes them there so as to be prepared, to university levels for 6-12. Of course Wikiversity is already setup for 6-12, but awareness isn't that high. <<My bit. --Topcount345 02:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but why to have more servers for education. Why not to have one and diferentiate via namespace or better cattegories. I thing e.g. French course for university students is same as for high scholl students. We on Czech wikiversity are having all kind of education on one server. There is normaly a structure and crucial names are disambugation. E.g. French is a disambugation, were you can find all courses on the level of pre-school teaching, primary school, secondary, university and hole life studies together with projects and french for native speakers.--Juan 14:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Does a content directory designed by and for colleges/universities needlessly cause pre-college educators to not participate at Wikiversity? Why not provide several high-level portals so that Wikiversity can be more welcoming for participants who are not working at the university level? Why force someone in early education to search through a bloated college catalog to find materials for introductory reading, writing and math? --JWSchmidt 14:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Motto and slogan contests: discussion of outcomes
Today was the proposed end of round 6 of the motto contest. We need further discussion about implementation of the slogan and the meaning of the motto (in using "open" vs "free"). It is suggested that we take 10 more days to discuss this without implementing a round 7 (yet).

Feel free to add comments below and comments and support statements at Motto contest page.

I apologize for the detail crammed in the process talk in the next few paragraphs...

For the slogan, for which the selection process ended on May 2, we can consider a format correction or a grammar revision for "set learning free" to go with "welcome to wikiversity" at the top of the main page. Suggested options include a format adjustment (to separate the two sentences), "setting learning free," "to set learning free," "-- set learning free," and a variant, suggested on the last day or so of round 6, "where learning is free." (I like the last option but it is bit of a departure and would need significant support I think for use.)

For the motto, we can consider if "open learning community" [with 65% supporting among top 2 options (22 of 34 commenting on those 2 options)], instead of "free learning community" (with 12 supporting), conveys the meaning of this wiki education forum as being both free and open. One person suggested today, the proposed last day of the selection process, that "open" does convey the meaning of free, whereas others have commented that "open" does connote free and works nicely as a contrast with the use of "free" in the slogan. [Note: the 3rd motto option, which included "open" in "open education," only had 3 in support but 4 against.]

If, over another 10 days or so, until May 22nd, there is not much discussion here, on the Wikiversity_talk:Motto_contest page, or elsewhere in Wikiversity, as voluntary facilitator, I will likely propose this conclusion to this process:
 * use "set learning free" with a format adjustment at the top of main page, so that there are clearly two sentences. We can amplify the meaning of this on the mission statement and other related pages.
 * declare "(the) open learning community" the selected motto by virtue of a fairly strong majority in support with some reasonable arguments included. [Note: "The" was preferred over "an" by several folks. But, having no article may be necessary because of text length considerations in use with a logo.]

Comments? -- Reswik 16:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * my opinion on moto is "open education for open minds" -- (The preceding unsigned comment was added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk • contribs) 12:29, 13 May 2007.)
 * That is a nice meaningful phrase but more people like the other ones. --Reswik 22:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * So, just to be clear, it would say "Wikiversity - set learning free"? "Wikiversity - the open learning community"? --HappyCamper 10:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In terms of placement:
 * The motto "open learning community" would go under the Wikiversity logo on sister projects -- and wherever we might use the logo and wish to have the motto with it. An example is the first Wikiversity logo-name-motto design in the goals section of the motto contest page.
 * The selected slogan "set learning free" goes under "Welcome to Wikiversity" at the top of the main page, typeset so that there are clearly two sentences or revised grammatically to fit in one sentence. And, like the motto, we can also use this phrase elsewhere, such as in the mission statement and on introductory pages. --Reswik 22:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The "-versity problem"
I think "open learning community" is a fine motto and I hate to say anything at this late date, but there has recently been some more discussion of what might be called "the -versity problem". There have always been some people who are worried that the name "wikiversity" might make some people think that the Wikiversity project is not intended for pre-college learning resources. For over a year I have ignored these qualms because we have always placed "for all age groups" in a prominent place on the Wikiversity Main Page. However, the point has been made that many people probably see the link to Wikiversity from the Wikipedia Main Page and they might assume that Wikiversity is some kind of online university, not a place with learning resources for all ages. This leads to a question: should the description that we place under the link to Wikiversity from the Wikipedia Main Page make it clear that Wikiversity is for all ages? Currently the "description" that is used is, "Free learning materials and activities" (38 characters), which is rather long (for example, the Meta-wiki description, "Wikimedia project coordination" is only 30 characters long). I'm wondering if we could use a modification of the motto for links to Wikiversity from sister projects, maybe something like: These modified versions of the motto would make clear to potential Wikiversity visitors that Wikiversity is for all ages. --JWSchmidt 00:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) open learning community for all ages (36 characters), or
 * 2) open learning for all ages (26 characters)

 * I take the point, but I still think the project's definition should be kept to two or three words on sister projects, and then made as clearly and prominantly as possible on the (Wikiversity) Main Page. I think the two options you give there would be far better as slogans for the main page - I still think that "Wikiversity, set learning free" is a pretty awful slogan in terms of immediately welcoming someone to the project who wants to find out what the project is all about (in contrast to "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit", which is as about as clear as you can get). I agree that the name "Wikiversity" is always going to cause confusion, but this means that the main page needs to be designed to include clear links for different people (which is why I think some sort of "pre-tertiary" portal, or set of portals, is a good idea), which in turn need to be designed to enable people find resources/spaces of interest to them as quickly as possible. But back to the main point, I think the motto needs to be snappy in the extreme - and I think that in this context the word "open" is a good one - in the sense of indicating more than just a conventional view of a (tertiary) university, and including a global community of learners. Cormaggio talk 22:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with Cormaggio. "(The) open learning community" is good for sister projects and for use with the WV logo. However, given the issues that JW raises, I agree that something like "open learning for all ages" would be a better slogan to go at the top of the main page. We could submit JW's options for community comment. Shall we do that? --Reswik 23:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * We have ample opportunity to say that Wikiversity is for all ages once people reach this website. Many more people see the word "Wikiversity" in the form of a link from the sister projects and that is the place where we could productively say "learning for all ages" so people do not assume that Wikiversity is only a college-level project. If it has not been done already, you may also want to raise the issue of a Wikiversity tagline in the context of final discussions about the motto. --JWSchmidt 00:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * For use in taglines and on other projects, I think "for all ages" is too long a phrase to tack onto the main point, which is "open learning". For taglines and use with the logo, I think we need to go with the motto selected by the community: "(the) open learning community." For amplifying our message through the slogan at the top of the main page, I think there is more room for editorial adjustments as the mission unfolds -- it is part of a wikipage (even if the mainpage), hence more fluid and it has more space. A motto, for WV purposes, needs to be brief and fairly stable, and "open learning community" fits the bill there. Based on comments in the contest, there is a lot of support for this motto (and even more support when including the "free learning community" variant). I think it entails a bit too much work to consider, at this time, a significant revision to both the selected motto and slogan. After seven months of the community working on this, I think the motto result is very usable.
 * A bit of background: In round 5 of the contest, there were ties between the "set learning free" set of options (in both contests) and the motto selected (open learning community) and the slogan variants of "opening minds through open learning." An option in this process is to reconsider the reasoning at round 5 and consider if the argument for selecting "set learning free" for the slogan was valid. There was no easy way to break the tie. Since "set learning free" was tied in both contests it seemed reasonable to give it a place somewhere. The argument was that for a motto that "set learning free" simply could not work -- it was not a description of WV.  The same argument by negation could be applied to the slogan part of the contest.  But, this the leaves us with the "opening minds..." version then from round 5 to reconsider -- which has continued to receive support, even in round 6. Any new options that speak to new concerns probably need to be discussed by the community in comparison with the "opening minds..." option.
 * So, what to do? I think we may need a round 7 (or round 6B) for the slong contest: ask for input on "opening minds..." vs. "open learning for all ages." In a few days, I may propose that the slogan contest re-initiate with those options (with the phrase "set learning free" removed, due to criticism *and* new emergent concerns, and "set.." moved to some other explanitory role in WV hopefully). What do you think? --Reswik 03:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

 * By my count "Open learning for all ages" is the same length as the Wikibooks phrase "Free textbooks and manuals" and shorter than the Meta-wiki phrase "Wikimedia project coordination". "Wikiversity, (the/an) open learning community" is a little redundant. A wiki is a community, so you do not have to include "community" if you are combining "Wikiversity" with the motto for a sister project link. I have no problem with "set learning free" as the slogan. The slogan does not have to be a description or definition of the Wikiversity project. I view "open learning for all ages" as a reasonable variant of the motto for when the motto is used in combination with the name of the project ("Wikiversity, open learning for all ages") as for links from sister projects. I think the Wikiversity community could at this time constructively examine the concern that people might interpret the name "wikiversity" as being biased towards college-level education and that the motto variant "Wikiversity, open learning for all ages" could function to correct this problem and lead to more people actually visiting the Main Page. --JWSchmidt 04:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

 * JW, If you and some others wish to replace the results of the participation process with your preferences, then I guess you have the position to do that as a coordinator and common discussant here. Cormaggio thinks the slogan "set learning free" is awful (and I agree it ain't hot). You think the motto contest results don't work. (For what it's worth, it is a bit puzzling that you did not participate in the contest and now wish to replace its results.)  I think it is a mistake for admins to overrule the general content of this process. But, I don't wish to debate this much - eithere we go with the results or not. If we aren't to use something closely resembling the end stage of the motto & slogan contest results ("open learning community" and "opening minds..." perhaps), my services are not needed as a voluntary facilitator of motto selection process. Btw, I think "for all ages" can't be true of a learning institution that is online -- there are various excluded age groups, at either extreme, and publics. So. If bypassing the contest results is going to be the case in whole or part, I'll leave this process in the hands of you and the other admins to discuss with whomever. I'll write up some sort of closure to the contest that points to discussions here, saying something like "due to criticisms and perceived problems with the contest, other options are being discussed... [link]." Take care, --Reswik 00:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I do not think you have to view my attempt to raise an issue for discussion as a "wish to replace the results of the participation process with your preferences". I've given voice to a concern that was first raised by others and I have not really voiced a preference; I've just tried to get a fair hearing for an issue. "You think the motto contest results don't work." <-- the first thing I said in this discussion was that I think "open learning community" is a fine motto. I've been lobbying for admittedly late discussion of an issue that as far as I can tell was not explicitly covered by the motto discussions so far. "puzzling that you did not participate in the contest and now wish to replace its results" <-- I've only tried to raise for community discussion an issue that I was recently sensitized to. I have no talent for creating names and mottos and I am satisfied to let others decide such things. I'm not sure it is constructive to adopt a narrow or literal reading of "for all ages" when the phrase is used in a motto. The Wikiversity project proposal used the phrase "all age groups" because while nobody ever seriously suggested that the project explicitly restrict its target audience to a particular age group, the name of the project can be read as suggesting a college-level project. --JWSchmidt 06:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

 * JW, I am glad that you are satisfied the results of the contest. Yes, some criticisms have been offered on all the options. But large groups of people have expressed approval of various of the results with certain options being clearly more favored. Taking a step back: We needn't wrap up the contest now. In considering issues with "set learning free," it is fair to raise the question if the Round 5 judgement call (of selecting between tied options for the slogan) should be revisited. In relation to other late in the game suggestions, it is fair to have another round of this process -- for refinements, alternate wordings, revisions, etc. In closing out this round of the contest (which we seem ready for), I think some issues in motto & slogan use can be raised for further consideration. For example, an alternate wording that was mentioned at the very end of the slogan contest was "where learning is free." To me, that seems powerful and fluid, whereas "set learning free" is a bit clunky in wording and the imperative seems too strongly worded. Putting on a facilitator hat, the use of "for all ages" is a resonable ammendment to suggest. I will raise that issue along with "where learning is free" and the round 5 tie-break issue as possible points for further discussion before and during a possible round 7. WV is still evolving and so can this motto process. I wonder if a few weeks of informal discussion (feeling out these options in another string (with a succinct summary of issues) might be in order now? Not sure. Anyway, I'm going to think now about if, how and when to propose a round 7 for choice between the round 6 selections and new (or late in the game) revisions and suggestions. --Reswik 03:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't think this -versity is a significant problem at all. Content always speaks for itself, and collaborative content is driven by its end users. We just need to keep the door wide open so that a wide portfolio of educational materials can be put onto Wikiversity. The Wikiversity of today need not define the Wikiversity of tomorrow. The fact that there seems to be a bias towards "higher-education-like" materials now should not be surprising. Yes, it is as much influenced by the name "Wikiversity" as it is by the available pool of contributors. But what better group of users to lay the foundations for this site than people who are Wiki-savvy with high levels of education? Considering that we are debating and being concerned about this issue should give us some credence that we are on the right track. Wikipedia was not built overnight, and branding is subtle. The stated challenge is for us ("the community") to show to the world that "Wikiversity" is the place for online learning. It will be seen this way if this service is delivered, and if it means that it begins first with tertiary content, then so be it. I would not be surprised if we start seeing pages on important trade skills crop up later on as the word spreads. --HappyCamper 04:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * HappyCamper, thanks for input. There are various important values and purposes that inform Wikiversity: learning & teaching, shared effort and ongoing creative collaboration (wikiness), service, freedom, openness, inquiry, various types of inclusion & diversity (age, gender, cultural), etc. (not necessarily in that order of importance). (See What_is_Wikiversity?) It is hard to express all of these values in one short phrase. A place to express WV's values more fully is in the mission statement. (See Mission.) Now would be a good time to revisit the mission statement. I think at least another week discussion of motto & slogan issues is in order -- and this could be done in the light of the mission statement and What is Wikipedia? page and the evolving project definition. Then, after some discussion, I continue to think a round 7 of the motto/slogan process would be good for refinements. --Reswik 15:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I would welcome a reinvigoration of the slogan contest - I took a look back at the point at which the "set learning free" variants were selected, and it was not so conclusive (even though there was significant subsequent approval), and I particularly appreciate Doug's openness in this regard. As for the motto, I like the idea of making it clear from, say, the Wikipedia front page that this is a project for all ages - it's just I don't particularly like the proposed clunky phrasing. Is there another way? Cormaggio talk 15:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * "I don't think this -versity is a significant problem at all. Content always speaks for itself....We just need to keep the door wide open" <-- But is the "door wide open" if people see just the name "wikiversity" and assume that it is a college level project? If people assume "wikiversity" is not "for all ages" then they never even bother to come to the Main Page. I'm not sure how big this problem is, but do I know that if it is a problem, I am part of the problem....I have been willing to let our existing bias towards college-level material persist while telling myself that it is an issue that will resolve itself with time. If that true or will the bias and barriers to change just become more entrenched? Wikiversity content cannot "speak for itself" to people who never visit this website because the name of the project keeps them away. "the proposed clunky phrasing" <-- Part of the "-versity problem" may be that the educators who feel excluded from Wikiversity are not taking part in these discussions. Trying to deal with systemic bias is not easy. Right now all we have is people with the bias saying "I'm not bothered by this problem and the proposed solution does not please me". "Openness and inclusiveness are ..... our radical means to our radical ends."  (source) --JWSchmidt 15:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Yikes! I hope you don't think I'm one of those people. They sound like people who shouldn't hang out here. It's important that we hammer things out, and I'm glad we're doing it now.
 * "Is the door wide open if people assume..." - My emphasis on if. Perhaps there is a sampling bias that I have, but every time I have mentioned "Wikiversity" to someone in real life, the response I get does not suggest that they immediately associate the project with a college level educational project. Random people on the street:
 * Hey, have you heard of Wikiversity before?
 * Um...no...what's that? Sounds like Wikipedia. A place where you learn stuff instead?
 * Yeah, stuff.
 * Useful stuff?
 * Well, potentially anything really.
 * Conversations usually continue about what a Wiki is, how to edit, whether it's related to Wikipedia, et cetera. Now, to college educators:
 * ...by the way, have you heard of Wikiversity before?
 * Are you serious? First there's Wikipedia, and now there's Wikiversity? Is the free movement on the internet trying to take over education now?
 * Even for people who know what "university" is, but not what "Wikipedia" is, will invoke the ideals of a university when I mention Wikiversity. These people's faces light up, and you can see their imagination taking over. They are not held back by what a brick and mortar university is at all! It's also interesting to see what happens when you ask people from different occupations what "Wikiversity" means to them. Bottom line? I don't believe people fundamentally hold the assumption that Wikiversity is closed off just for university content. I do think we need to experiment more with the main page. --HappyCamper 22:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * It would be a simple bit of research to have some elementary school teachers look at the Main Page and then ask them if it seems welcoming to people who are interested in pre-college education. --JWSchmidt 14:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not an elementary teacher yet but hope to be by the end of next year. No, the front page of wikiversity does not seem to welcome pre-college curriculum.  I searched the page for elementary, k-12, and early and found nothing on the page.  That is why I stayed away from wikiversity for almost 1 year until I discovered that my stuff didn't belong in wikibooks and I was referred here. Some other ideas for slogans: Open Learning, Free for All (5 words/29 letters&spaces) In addition to your current list:
 * Set Learning Free (3 words/17 letters)
 * Opening Minds Through Open Learning (5 words/35 letters)
 * Open Learning for All Ages (5 words/26 Letters)
 * Where Learning is Free (4 words/22 letters)Harriska2 16:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Learning for Life (3 words, 15 letters) Una Smith 04:56, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Motto contest: continuing discussion
The introduction at the top of the motto contest page now reads:

 * "The motto contest has been extended for more discussion.

 * "A discussion string that summarizes issues is in the "Colloquium: Motto and slogan contests: discussion of outcomes" [note: this section]. Feel free to add comments there or to continue adding comments and support statements in the motto contest section."

Feel free to add points bellow, in the strings above, or on the Motto contest page. A new string in the colloquim summarizing the above will be created later. --Reswik 20:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


text:
Category:Crave original programming

This category lists television programs that have regularly aired their first-run episodes on the Canadian pay TV channel Crave and/or the associated Crave streaming service. It does not list programs which first appeared on a different network.

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Crave original programming


text:
Use the Source/BSD

 * Discuss the starting of the BSD Unix variant.
 * Discuss the startings of NetBSD and FreeBSD.
 * Mention the starting of BSDi, but let the details be in the following chapter.
 * Discuss where NetBSD and FreeBSD have gone since their founding
 * Discuss the forking of NetBSD into OpenBSD and touch upon the conflict that caused it.
 * Discuss the direction OpenBSD went in and why. Theo's Sun work and his license stance.
 * Discuss 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, which is lead by Michael Sokolov. A strong supporter of VAX and the original BSD.
 * Discuss the conflict that caused the forking of FreeBSD into DragonFlyBSD. The reasons for Matt Dillion's departure from FreeBSD and his history in Amiga and Linux work.
 * Discuss the various dead BSD varients; why they started and why they died.
 * Talk a little about Wasabi and Windriver.

Michael Sokolov is a hardcore backer of the VAX computer system as well as of the original ideals and code of the Berkeley Software Distribution, so in on December 27th, 1998 he began Quasijarus. Taking the code from the 4.3-Tahoe release of BSD UNIX Michael began to maintain and improve the 1988 code base for personal usage. As Michael believes in the ideal of a One True Unix, he completely avoids any and all GNU or GNU-like solutions within Quasijarus. Though the codebase is based on the Tahoe release of BSD, no work is done on the Tahoe specific code, VAX is the only architecture supported.

title: Use the Source/BSD


text:
Jeffrey Friedman (politician)

Jeffrey Mark "Jeff" Friedman (January 20, 1945 – June 8, 2007) was an American politician in the state of Texas. Friedman was a campus political activist who became the youngest person ever elected to the City Council of Austin, Texas in 1971. He is best remembered as the city's so-called "hippie mayor" who led an alliance of young, ethnic, and left wing voters to capture the reins of city government in 1975 — an event that helped cement Austin's place as a liberal bastion in a conservative state and region. He was also the city's first Jewish mayor.

Early years
Jeffrey Friedman was born in Queens, New York on January 20, 1945, to Sidney Friedman and the former Evalyn Oken.

He attended the University of Missouri–Kansas City, from which he graduated in 1967. Following graduation he moved to Austin, Texas to attend the University of Texas School of Law, graduating from that institution in 1970.

While still a student, Friedman became involved in the fight against the Vietnam War as a campus activist, taking a leadership role in a march of 25,0000 people in the aftermath of the May 1970 Kent State massacre.

Political career
Friedman first ran for the Austin City Council in 1971, backed by a coalition which included University of Texas students, Mexican-Americans, African-Americans, and sundry supporters of a liberal reform agenda. The 26-year-old was elected in the November balloting in a close election, becoming the youngest person ever elected to the Austin City Council. Friedman's victory came largely as the result of an influx of new voters, with the legal voting age being lowered from 21 to 18 ahead of the election.

The young city councilor was selected as a delegate to the 1972 Democratic National Convention held in Miami Beach, Florida — a gathering which selected George McGovern as the party's nominee for President of the United States.

Friedman was reelected to the Austin City Council, the governing body of the city of 250,000 people, in 1973.

In 1975, Friedman ran for mayor of Austin along with a slate of liberal candidates, capturing majority control of the city government, with the 30-year-old becoming the youngest mayor in the city's history. The resulting city council was "more akin politically to Madison or Berkeley than to Dallas or Houston," opined one contemporary political observer. The rag-tag alliance that helped elect Friedman, in combination with the mayor's fashionably long hair and bushy mustache, helped earn Friedman the moniker "Austin's Hippie Mayor" among some traditionalist wags in the community.

Friedman and his co-thinkers led the fight to control urban sprawl and to increase participation in government by the minority community of Austin, challenging the business-friendly status quo and helping to reshape the city's longterm political agenda. He advocated for establishment of a public ambulance service and for equalization of electric rates in the city.

While mayor of Austin, Friedman attempted to extend his influence into the national political sphere, joining with 21 of his mayoral colleagues from around the country as signatories of an open letter to President Jimmy Carter calling upon him to stop production of the B-1 bomber.

Life after politics
After his term as mayor of Austin, Friedman retired from political life and dedicated himself to establishing a legal practice and raising a family. He coached his son Adam's little league baseball team for several years.

Death and legacy
Friedman died of a heart attack on June 8, 2007. He was 62 years old at the time of his death.

Michael R. Levy, publisher of Texas Monthly, was one of those who eulogized Friedman in the days after his death. "Jeff introduced Austin city government to democracy," Levy remarked. "To say that the city was shocked is an understatement."

title: Jeffrey Friedman (politician)


text:
komár

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) mosquito small flying insect of the family, known for biting and sucking blood
 * 2)  communist, commie

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) mosquito small flying insect of the family, known for biting and sucking blood
 * 2)  communist, commie

title: komár


text:
Guitar/Slides

The slide is one of the simplest guitar techniques. There are two kinds of slides: shift slides and legato slides. In a shift slide, a note is fretted, then struck, and then the fretting finger slides up or down to a different fret, and the string is struck again. A legato slide differs in that the string is struck only for the first note.

The first slide pictured is a shift slide; the second is a legato slide. A few tablature writers do not distinguish between the two slides, using only shift slide notation. The abbreviation "sl." for slide may be omitted. When sliding from a higher fret to a lower fret, the slanted lines are usually changed to have a downward slope instead of an upward slope, to emphasize the sliding "down". It is possible to slide up from an open string, but this often does not sound as clean because this requires a hammer-on at the first fret (or for really fast slides, a higher fret) before sliding up. Likewise, it is possible to slide down to an open string but it requires a pull-off at the first (or some other) fret.

In Internet tablature, a slide from the third fret to the fifth might be written like any of these: 3/5   3>5 3>s>5 3s5

Internet tablature rarely distinguishes between the two kinds of slides.

Less commonly, tablature can instruct the guitarist to "slide into" or "slide out of" a note. In printed tablature, they are notated identically except, in the case of slide-into, the first note is omitted, and in the case of slide-out-of, the second note is omitted. In other words, the note slides in from nowhere, or out to nowhere. It simply tells the guitarist to quickly slide from or to an arbitrary point, usually only a few frets away.

Good sliding keeps the new note audible, while keeping the note in tune. If you don't press the string hard enough, you mute the string or buzz it on the frets. Too hard and the string bends out of tune. The latter does not happen often, but sounds awful and should be avoided.

 * Example
 * C C C C | F F C C | G F C G
 * [[file:Guitar Slide Training - Folkblues in C.svg|350px]]

 * E E E E | A A E E | H7 A E H7
 * [[file:Guitar Slide Training - Folkblues in E.svg|350px]]

title: Guitar/Slides


text:
Galina Savitskaya

Galina Savitskaya (born 13 July 1961) is a Belarusian former basketball player, born in Minsk, who competed in the 1988 Summer Olympics.

title: Galina Savitskaya


text:
The Cage 2

The Cage 2 a 2002 album by guitarist Dario Mollo and former Black Sabbath vocalist Tony Martin. It is their second collaboration.

Personnel

 * Band members
 * Tony Martin – vocals
 * Dario Mollo – guitar
 * Tony Franklin – bass
 * Roberto Gualdi – drums
 * Dario Patti – keyboards

 * Additional performer
 * Walter Ruta – didjeridoo

 * Production
 * Dario Mollo – production, engineering, mastering and mixing
 * Saverio Chippalone – photography

title: The Cage 2


text:
Introduction to Paleoanthropology/MiddlePaleolithic Technology

Stone tool industry
Neanderthals and their contemporaries seem to have been associated everywhere with similar stone tool industries, called the Mousterian (after Le Moustier Cave in France). Therefore no fundamental behavioral difference is noticeable. The implication may be that the anatomical differences between Neanderthals and near-moderns have more to do with climatic adaptation and genetic flow than with differences in behavior.

Archaeological sites are dominated by flake tools. By contrast, Acheulean sites are dominated by large handaxes and choppers. Handaxes are almost absent from Middle Paleolithic sites. Oldowan hominids used mainly flake tools as well. However, unlike the small, irregular Oldowan flakes, the Middle Paleolithic hominids produced quite symmetric, regular flakes using sophisticated methods.

The main method is called the Levallois and it involves three steps in the core reduction:
 * 1) the flintknapper prepares a core having one precisely shaped convex surface;
 * 2) then, the knapper makes a striking platform at one end of the core;
 * 3) finally, the knapper hits the striking platform, knocking off a flake whose shape is determined by the original shape of the core.

Mousterian tools are more variable than Acheulean tools. Traditionally tools have been classified into a large number of distinct types based on their shape and inferred function. Among the most important ones are:
 * points;
 * side scrapers, flake tools bearing a retouched edge on one or both sides;
 * denticulates, flake tools with a succession of irregular adjacent notches on one or both sides.

Francois Bordes found that Middle Paleolithic sites did not reveal a random mix of tool types, but fell into one of four categories that he called Mousterian variants. Each variant had a different mix of tool types. Bordes concluded that these sites were the remains of four wandering groups of Neanderthals, each preserving a distinct tool tradition over time and structured much like modern ethnic groups.

Recent studies give reason to doubt Bordes' interpretation. Many archaeologists believe that the variation among sites results from differences in the kinds of activity performed at each locality. For example, Lewis Binford argued that differences in tool types depend on the nature of the site and the nature of the work performed. Some sites may have been base camps where people lived, while others may have been camps at which people performed subsistence tasks. Different tools may have been used at different sites for woodworking, hide preparation, or butchering prey.

Recently, however, microscopic studies of wear patterns on Mousterian tools suggest that the majority of tools were used mainly for woodworking. As a result, there seems to be no association between a tool type (such as a point or a side-scraper) and the task for which it was used.

Microscopic analyses of the wear patterns on Mousterian tools also suggest that stone tools were hafted, probably to make spears.

Mousterian hominids usually made tools from rocks acquired locally. Raw materials used to make tools can typically be found within a few kilometers of the site considered.

Subsistence Patterns
Neanderthal sites contain bones of many animals alongside Mousterian stone tools. European sites are rich in bones of red deer, fallow deer, bison, aurochs, wild sheep, wild goat and horse, while eland, wildebeest, zebra are found often at African sites. Archaeologists find only few bones of very large animals such as hippopotamus, rhinoceros and elephant, even though they were plentiful in Africa and Europe.

This pattern has provoked as much debate at similar ambiguity as for earlier hominids, regarding the type of food procurement responsible for the presence of these bones: hunting or scavenging.

Several general models have be offered to explain the Mousterian faunal exploitation:

Obligate Scavenger Model
Some archaeologists (such as Lewis Binford) believe that Neanderthals and their contemporaries in Africa never hunted anything larger than small antelope, and even these prey were acquired opportunistically, not as a result of planned hunts. Any bones of larger animals were acquired by scavenging. As evidence in support of this view, the body parts which dominate (skulls and foot bones) are commonly available to scavengers. Binford believes that hominids of this period did not have the cognitive skills necessary to plan and organize the cooperative hunts necessary to bring down large prey. Mousterian hominids were nearly as behaviorally primitive as early Homo.

Flexible Hunter-Scavenger Model
Other scientists argue that Neanderthals likely were not obligate scavengers, but that during times when plant foods were abundant they tended to scavenger rather than hunt. At other times, when plant foods were less abundant, Neanderthals hunted regularly. Their interpretation is of a flexible faunal exploitation strategy that shifted between hunting and scavenging.

Less-Adept Hunter Model
Other scientists believe that Neanderthals were primarily hunters who regularly killed large animals. But they were less effective hunters than are modern humans. They point out that animal remains at Mousterian sites are often made up of one or two species:
 * For example, at Klasies River, vast majority of bones are from eland.

The prey animals are large creatures, and they are heavily overrepresented at these sites compared with their occurrence in the local ecosystem. It is hard to see how an opportunistic scavenger would acquire such a non-random sample of the local fauna. One important feature of this model is that animal prey hunted such as eland are not as dangerous prey as buffalo. Middle Paleolithic hominids were forced to focus on the less dangerous (but less abundant) eland, because they were unable to kill the fierce buffalo regularly.

Fully Adept Hunter Model
Finally some scientists argue that scavenging was not a major component of the Middle Paleolithic diet and there is little evidence of a less effective hunting strategy. Skeletal element abundance and cut mark patterning would be consistent with hunting.

Overall, there is currently no evidence that Middle Paleolithic hominids differed from Upper Paleolithic hominids in scavenging or hunting, the most fundamental aspect of faunal exploitation. The differences that separate Middle Paleolithic hominids from modern hominids may not reside in scavenging versus hunting or the types of animals that they pursued. Differences in the effectiveness of carcass use and processing, with their direct implications for caloric yield, may be more important.

Neanderthals lacked sophisticated meat and fat storage technology, as well as productive fat rendering technology. At a minimum, the lack of storage capabilities and a lower caloric yield per carcass have forced Neanderthals to use larger foraging ranges to increase the likelihood of successful encounters with prey.

Cannibalism
Marks on human bones from Middle Paleolithic can be the result of two phenomena: violence and cannibalism.

Violence
Violence can be recognized on bone assemblages by: Evidence for violence in the Middle Paleolithic is extremely rare.
 * marks of weapons;
 * cutmarks on skull produced by scalping;
 * removal of heads and hands as trophies;
 * breakage of faces;
 * much less "body processing" than in case of cannibalism.

Body processing and cannibalism
By contrast, evidence of body processing and cannibalism is becoming more widespread at different times and in different geographical areas.

Chronology

 * Lower Paleolithic
 * Sterkfontein (South Africa): cannibalism
 * Bodo cranium (Ethiopia): cannibalism
 * Atapuerca (Spain): cannibalism

 * Middle Paleolithic (Neanderthals)
 * Krapina (Croatia): body processing
 * Moula-Guercy (France): cannibalism
 * Marillac (France): cannibalism
 * Combe-Grenal (France): cannibalism

 * Middle Paleolithic (Homo sapiens idaltu)
 * Herto (Ethiopia): body processing

 * Upper Paleolithic (with Neanderthals)
 * Vindija (Croatia): cannibalism
 * Zafarraya (Spain): cannibalism

 * Neolithic
 * Fontbrégoua (France): cannibalism

Criteria
Criteria required for a "minimal taphonomic signature" of cannibalism: These criteria must be found on both hominid and ungulate remains. Finally the types of bones usually broken are the crania and limb bones.
 * breakage of bones (to get at marrow and brain);
 * cut marks suggesting butchery;
 * so-called anvil abrasions left where a bone has rested on a stone anvil whilst it is broken with a hammer stone;
 * burning (after breakage and cutting);
 * virtual absence of vertebrae (crushed or boiled to get at marrow and grease);
 * "pot polishing" on the ends of bones which have been cooked and stirred in a clay pot.

Patterns
Different behavioral patterns toward the dead among Middle Paleolithic Neanderthals:
 * Cannibalism: Moula-Guercy
 * Human individuals defleshed and disarticulated.
 * Bones smashed for marrow and brain.
 * Mortuary practices with body processing: Krapina, Herto
 * Postmortem processing of corpses with stone tools, probably in preparation for burial of cleaned bones.
 * No evidence of marrow processing.
 * Mortuary practices without body processing: Southwest Asia (Amud, Kebara, Shanidar)
 * Intentional burials; dead bodies placed carefully in burial pits with tools and grave goods.


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Talk:Romanticism

Pronunciation
What is the IPA of Romanticism? I don't know if it's an "s" or a "k" in the c. --Bookinvestor 03:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

 * It's "s" (only) in my dialect. You can use  or  for more automatic requests.  --Connel MacKenzie 06:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Romanticism


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Talk:David Platt (pastor)

Parents?
Who are his mother and father? where was he raised? does he have siblings? 2601:142:4200:9B40:4515:16FB:4130:7C9A (talk) 05:39, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:David Platt (pastor)


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Principles of electricity/Electrons and Electric Fields

Electrons and Electric Fields
Welcome to the lesson. If this is your first exposure to electrical theory, you need some foundational concepts in order to proceed through other electronics modules. The nuts and bolts of electricity are electrons, proton-packed atomic nuclei, atoms, molecules, void spaces, and the forces that extend across the voids between the solid particles. First, consider those particles.

Know subatomic nuclear physics?
Electrons have a negative charge. Call it negative 1 electron volt. Neutrons are neutral. Protons have a plus 1 electron volt charge. So, what is a charge? Charge is the potential to attract or repel another charged particle. Positively charged particles are mutually attracted to negatively charged particles. Positively charged particles repel positively charged particles. Negatively charged particles repel negatively charged particles. Unlike charges attract. Like charges repel.

It is a quirk of the universe that electrons and protons carry charges of identical magnitude. Use simple addition and subtraction to add or take away the charges of electrons or protons. There are other physical effects that bias this behavior but the description above will suffice in almost every circumstance you will encounter. We have to cover one immediately

The nuclear force is short ranged. Something about the order of the diameter of four or five protons is where it begins to drop off. However, it is quite strong enough over its short range to keep the proton-packed nucleus of an atom together. That is, until you get past Lead on the periodic table of the elements. The reason we have to brush on this topic is so we can move past the problem of positively charged particles sticking together in the nuclei of our atoms. Take it as given, until the nucleus gets pretty sizeable, it does not want to split.

Attraction and repulsion
Atoms are formed with a central, positively charged nucleus. This nucleus contains one or many protons and some neutrons. The protons each carry a charge that attracts nearby electrons. An atomic nucleus typically holds electrons in orbit by this positive charge. However, an atom is defined by its nucleus, not by its electrons.

So an atom has a cloud of electrons spinning at some distance from the nucleus. In a molecule or compound, the amount of attractive force in one atom may be different from its neighbor. An electron will migrate toward the more attractive atom. The one with the most apparent positive charge.

Get hot
Electrons can change their orbit. With the application of energy, an electron can be induced to speed up, rise to a higher orbit, then stay there until induced to change orbit again. As the electron's orbit gets higher and higher, the strength positive charge of the nucleus acting on the orbiting electron is diminished. Taken to its conclusion, the electron can be forced to leave its atom.

Sharing
In conductors, which include most metals, electrons are frequently shared between adjacent atoms. Should one electron be forced off its neighbor, it may in turn displace the neighbor's shared electron, which displaces the next and so on.

Long distance relationship
Force felt is related to charge by the inverse square of the distance. At a distance of 1 unit, electron A feels 1 unit of repulsion from electron B. At twice that distance, or 2 units, the repulsion would be the inverse of 2 squared or 1/2^2 or 1/4 the force at 1 unit of distance.

Shining light
Electrons orbit atoms, are shared by atoms, and electrons can be forced away from atoms to fly off on their own. Happily, their behavior is predictable. Before an electron can accelerate to a higher orbit, it must be supplied with the force to speed it to the new orbit. In another galactic convenience, it has been demonstrated that electrons that move to a higher shell do so only in fixed units. Heard of quantum mechanics? Quantum physics? Well, a specific, exact, measurable quantum (quanta?) of energy is required to raise the electron exactly one orbital level. No more and no less will suffice. What happens when that orbit is allowed to decay and the electron loses energy? Can you guess? Put down your hand, brainiac. Each orbital unit of decay releases a quantum of energy precisely equal to the one that raised the electron in the first place. Where this becomes important is in things like light bulbs. Remember the loose treatment of electrons by nuclei in metals? Well, when the tungsten filament in a light bulb gets way, way hot, the electrons actually leave and bounce around inside the bulb! When they happen to fall back in toward the filament, they give off those quanta of energy in the form of light and heat.

Magnetism
Since we understand the forces involved between charged particles, we now have the mental tools to understand a bit about magnetism. Magnets posses mechanically and chemically fixed electron biases. That is, electrons would appear to be trapped toward one side of the atoms and molecules that make up fixed magnets. This fixing means that one end of the magnet has a relative surplus of negatively charged electrons. The converse holds true, where positively charged atomic nuclei are lain relatively bare. As this is at the molecular level, one can split a fixed magnet and the polarization remains for both fractions of the original magnet.

With every electron to the back of its attendant atom, the total charge across the magnet remains neutral. However the near surface is absolutely full of protons (for example) while the rear surface is absolutely full of protons. By our distance squared rule, we can easily see how the near positive charge outweighs the relatively distant negative charge.

Splitting a fixed magnet should produce diminishing magnet strength consistent with the decreasing inverse distance squared. [I have not seen this theory presented in any textbook so I must bear the responsibility if this is just plain wrong]

Electromagnetism
There is a way to create a magnetic field artificially. By coiling a conductor as you might coil thread on a spool, then applying an electric current, a magnetic field is induced. There is a left-hand rule for electromagnets. Look at the electromagnet. Put your left thumb in parallel with the core of the coil. If you can close your hand in the direction the electrons flow, then your thumb is pointing toward the North pole of the magnetic field. Otherwise, reverse your hand..

North and South
The north pole of a magnet attracts the south pole of another while like poles repel. Magnetic field forces electrons to rotate around magnetic field lines. There are units of measure for magnetic field strength. They are beyond the scope of this lesson.

Exercise
I may have the polar electron attraction/repulsion backwards. Same with the left-hand rule. Experiment among yourselves. Document your results.

For extra credit, visit Earth's magnetic north and south poles. Report your observations.

Up to EE_99_Principles_of_electricity Shawn Daniel Hendricks (discuss • contribs) 07:37, 1 May 2019 (UTC)


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User:Trisimix/sandbox

Chain Theory

Time can be viewed as a chain. The chain stretches forever and -infinity never meets infinity All time exist as is an interaction of algorithms such that b is determined by whatever appropriate interaction to bring a to c(or c to a if you’re a fan of -time theories) As a result, time is physical because it is the universes state b. Time is every single graspable entity in b. The algorithms for what c is are determined by b and d and so on and so forth stretching in every direction for infinity. The point of this theory is to tie in that the direct “future” and direct “past” are put through a mathematical calulation to determine the exact “present”. Such that the atoms of the future are pulling our current atoms just as the previous atoms are pushing, this means time goes on forever in both directions and is predetermined through the equation first mentioned, a=past b=present c=future where a AND c in some way determine the absoluteness of B. Basically it means what you do affects what will happen just as much as what's going to happen in the future, but on a much smaller scale(smallest scale to time possible[we don't know how small yet]) [a] [b] [c] [d]

title: User:Trisimix/sandbox


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Madrid Williams

Madrid Loyd Williams (January 16, 1911 – 1993; ) was an American executive who, despite never finishing high school or attending college, served as executive director of the Georgia Bar Association. She was known as the "first lady" of the State Bar.

Early life
Williams was born in Aragon, Georgia on January 16, 1911, to farmers Horace Cleveland Loyd and Mary Samford Loyd. She was the oldest of four children. After a few years the family moved from Aragon to Menlo, and finally to Macon in 1923. Williams' father worked on the Bibb County Courthouse, her mother sewed, and the family rented out the extra rooms of their house; nevertheless they were poor. Despite excelling in school, Williams dropped out at the age of 15 to help her family make ends meet, eventually working full-time as a secretary at Macon law firm Harris, Harris, Russell and Weaver.

Career
In 1942, Williams began working for the Georgia Bar Association as executive secretary in the organization's new permanent offices in Macon. During her more than three decades with the bar, she climbed the organization's ranks and finally became executive director. Williams oversaw massive growth in the organization, which in 1964 officially became the State Bar of Georgia. When governor Carl Sanders held a bill-signing ceremony for the Unified Bar Bill, announcing the creation of a unified state bar on March 11, 1963, she was the only woman present. Williams also was administrative editor of the Georgia Bar Journal. In 1972 she was instrumental in the relocation of the Bar offices from Macon to Atlanta.

She served as president of the National Association of Bar Executives in 1970, one of the first three women to do so. She was also a member of the State Bar Board of Governors, served on the Board of Continuing Legal Education, was a member of the State Disciplinary Board, and was secretary of the Georgia Bar Foundation. She retired in 1976.

Personal life and legacy
Williams married Grant Williams in 1934.

After her retirement, Williams was deeply involved with Soroptimist International. Additionally, she co-founded St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Macon; she was the church's first female Clerk of Session. Later she was elected as the first female deacon at Vineville Presbyterian Church.

Williams also had a love for gardening. She had no children.

Madrid Williams died in 1993.

In 2010, Williams was inducted into the Georgia Women of Achievement Hall of Fame.

title: Madrid Williams


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scott Basalaj (2nd nomination)

The result was Speedy delete. --MelanieN (talk) 22:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Scott Basalaj
AfDs for this article:
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This article was previously deleted in this AFD because the subject failed to meet the criteria of WP:NFOOTBALL. As far as I can tell this still applies. The article was recreated based on statistics from a video game. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:23, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * DELETE - Per nom.Simione001 (talk) 08:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Before using such arguments, please see WP:PERNOM. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 20:18, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete - per WP:G4. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:15, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:15, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


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Taylor Rogers

Taylor Allen Rogers (born December 17, 1990) is an American professional baseball pitcher for the San Francisco Giants of Major League Baseball (MLB). He has previously played in MLB for the Minnesota Twins, San Diego Padres, and Milwaukee Brewers. Rogers played college baseball at the University of Kentucky, and was selected by the Twins in the 11th round of the 2012 MLB draft. He was named an All-Star in 2021.

Early life
Rogers attended Chatfield Senior High School in Littleton, Colorado, playing for both the baseball team and the basketball team. In 2008 he was 5–2 with a 1.98 ERA, and struck out 82 batters in 53 innings. He was named first-team All-State. In 2009, he was named All-Region.

College career
The Baltimore Orioles selected him in the 37th round of the 2009 Major League Baseball draft. He did not sign with the Orioles, and instead attended the University of Kentucky to play college baseball for the Kentucky Wildcats. In 2010, he tied for the Southeastern Conference lead in losses (7) and runs allowed (68), as he went 4–7 with a 6.40 ERA.

In 2011, Rogers tied for second in the Southeastern Conference in losses (7), and was third-highest in runs allowed (56). After the 2011 season, he played collegiate summer baseball with the Harwich Mariners of the Cape Cod Baseball League, was 2–3 with a 1.76 ERA and an 0.946 WHIP in six starts, and was named a league all-star. In 2012, he was 6-4 and was fourth in the Southeastern Conference in runs allowed (45) and 11th in strikeouts (84). Pitching in college from 2010 to 2012, he was 13–18 with a 5.35 ERA.

Draft and minor leagues
After his junior season at Kentucky, the Minnesota Twins selected Rogers in the 11th round of the 2012 MLB draft. Rogers signed with the Twins for a signing bonus of $100,000, and made his professional debut that season with the Elizabethton Twins, and also played for the Beloit Snappers. In 15 games (10 starts) between both teams, he was 4–3 with a 2.27 ERA.

Rogers started 2013 with the Cedar Rapids Kernels, and was promoted to the Fort Myers Miracle during the season, with whom his 11 wins were third in the Florida State League and his three complete games and two shutouts led the league. In 25 games between the two clubs, 24 of which were starts, Rogers was 11–7 with a 2.88 ERA. He was named a Florida State League post-season All Star.

In 2014 he pitched for the New Britain Rock Cats, with whom he compiled an 11–6 record with a 3.29 ERA in 24 games started in which he pitched 145 innings (6th in the Eastern League) and had 113 strikeouts (5th), with his 11 wins tied for third in the league. He was named an Eastern League mid-season All Star.

In 2015 he played for the Rochester Red Wings, with whom he posted an 11–12 record with a 3.98 ERA in 28 games (27 starts; tied for the International League lead) covering 174 innings (2nd) with 126 strikeouts (2nd), with his 11 wins tied for third in the league. He was named an International League mid-season All Star. The Twins added Rogers to their 40-man roster after the 2015 season. He began 2016 with Rochester.

Minnesota Twins (2016–2021)
Rogers was called up to the major leagues on April 13, 2016, and he made his major league debut the next day. He was optioned to Rochester on April 19, and recalled to Minnesota on May 17. After his May 17 promotion, he spent the rest of the season with Minnesota, going 3–1 with a 3.96 ERA in 57 relief appearances covering 61.1 innings in which he struck out 64 batters.

Rogers spent all of the 2017 season with the Twins, pitching to a 7–3 record, a 3.07 ERA, and a 1.31 WHIP in $55 2/3$ innings pitched, with a major-league-leading 30 holds. In the 2018 season, Rogers appeared in 72 games (9th in the AL) for Minnesota, pitching to a 1–2 record with two saves in $68 1/3$ innings in which he struck out 75 batters, and had a WHIP of 0.951.

In 2019, Rogers began as a setup man before being installed as the closer. He was 2-4 and recorded 30 saves (4th in the AL) in 36 opportunities with an ERA of 2.61, striking out 90 batters in 69 innings (11.7 strikeouts/9 innings), allowed 1.4 walks per 9 innings (among the lowest 2% in the major leagues), and had a WHIP of 1.000. He received the Twins Joseph W. Haynes Pitcher of the Year Award. In 2020, Rogers was 2–4 with nine saves (5th in the AL) and a 4.05 ERA in 21 games, in 20 innings in which he struck out 24 batters while walking four batters.

On July 12, 2021, Rogers was named to the 2021 All-Star Game. For the 2021 season, he was 2–4 with 9 saves and a 3.35 ERA, as in 40.1 innings he struck out 59 batters (13.2 strikeouts/9 innings), while allowing only 1.8 walks/9 innings.

San Diego Padres (2022)
On April 7, 2022, the Twins traded Rogers, Brent Rooker, and cash considerations to the San Diego Padres in exchange for Chris Paddack, Emilio Pagán, and a player to be named later. Minor leaguer Brayan Medina was sent to the Twins as the player to be named later on April 21.

Rogers became the Padres closer, but was removed from the role in late July after two consecutive blown saves.

Milwaukee Brewers (2022)
On August 1, 2022, the Padres traded Rogers, Dinelson Lamet, Esteury Ruiz, and Robert Gasser to the Milwaukee Brewers for Josh Hader.

In 2022 between the two teams he was 4–8 with 31 saves (5th in the NL) with a 4.76 ERA, and pitched in 66 games (10th), as in 64.1 innings he struck out 84 batters (11.8 strikeouts/9 innings). He relied 63% of the time on an 81 mph slider (against which batters hit .177, and left-handed batters hit .102), and 36% of the time on a 94 mph sinker (against which batters hit .304, and left-handed batters hit .250).

San Francisco Giants (2023–present)
On December 28, 2022, Rogers signed a three-year, $33 million contract with the San Francisco Giants, before his brother, Tyler, re-signed with the team.

Personal life
Rogers' identical mirror image twin brother, Tyler, who is younger by 30 seconds, is also a pitcher for the San Francisco Giants. The brothers became the 5th set of twins to play in MLB.

title: Taylor Rogers


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Talk:The Good Place season 4

Airing schedule for this season
Hello again, everyone! While creating this article, I added a category for 2020 network television shows that was contested and reverted by another editor. While I appreciate the good faith intentions around the removal of that category, this season will have a total of 14 episodes, one of which is set to be an hour-long finale to wrap things up. Additionally, there are just 14 Thursdays remaining for this year. This means that if, as has traditionally been the case, NBC preempts normal primetime programming in favor of special programming for Halloween, Thanksgiving, and especially Christmas and New Years' Eve/New Years' Day 2020, unless NBC airs two episodes of the show on some of those Thursdays, there is absolutely no way that all episodes of the show will finish airing before the New Year.

I understand (and even appreciate) the general notion that adding an unverified category to any page may violate this policy, among others, but given the precedents set by the prior 3 seasons of the show, which all featured a cliffhanger mid-season ending, I feel there is more than enough grounds to conclude that the show will not finish airing until sometime during 2020. To me, it is just a simple matter of logic. But because I also know Wikipedia is not a one-man operation, I wanted to post about this issue here for the community to make a call about the category in question, and I will stand by the decision of the consensus, whatever that might wind up being. Thanks --Jgstokes (talk) 05:41, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Based on the recent explanation in a subsequent revert by AussieLegend, I now have a more complete understanding of why the category should not be included, which perfectly resolves the concerns I expressed above. I would therefore like to apologize for any trouble I may have caused over this issue, and would be perfectly fine if no further discussion on this is needed. Thanks again, everyone! --Jgstokes (talk) 05:51, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Good Place season 4