text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk/Archives/2017 September 13

= September 13 =

Request on 08:43:20, 13 September 2017 for assistance on AfC submission by Afra.vahidishams
lj9l 08:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Afra, and welcome to the AFC help desk. Did you have a question? jcc (tea and biscuits) 15:22, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

09:17:40, 13 September 2017 review of draft by Blench
Hello,

I am a writer working on behalf of Hearing Health Science, a company that holds the licence from the University of Michigan for the ACEMg technology. The company wishes to publish the compiled research on the otoprotectant technology known in the medical literature as ACEMg.

The company and I believe that this work benefits the encyclopaedia and its readers. The aim is to compile the work of academic researchers who have been working for several decades to advance the neuroscience relating to upregulated free radicals in inner ear pathology.

Is this OK? I don't believe there is a conflict of interest here, but please advise if you think my understanding is in error, and if you believe that there is a conflict of interest that would prevent this article from being approved.

Blench (talk) 09:17, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is a conflict of interest. The good news is that you can continue editing as normal- but first, under the Wikimedia Terms of Use, disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a disclosure on your user page at User:Blench, and the template can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form:  . Please respond before making any other edits to Wikipedia. jcc (tea and biscuits) 15:24, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks JCC. So, if I understand you correctly, I need to add the disclosure to my user page only, right? There's no need to mention anything on the ACEMg article itself?

I've updated my user page now. Can you confirm that I did it right?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Blench (talk • contribs) 09:38, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

 * When you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ), and if you want a particular user to notice, also use a notification template, such as reply to. In addition to the disclosure you've made on your user page, the talk page of any article you edit as a paid editor should be tagged with connected contributor (paid). I've done that for you on Draft talk:ACEMg. --Worldbruce (talk) 17:13, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the guidance and for adding the connected contributor tag to the ACEMg page, much appreciated. Blench (talk) 17:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

14:44:08, 13 September 2017 review of submission by Coralroot
I have submitted a draft of an article about the human trace paradigm, an academic subject developed by Béatrice Galinon-Mélénec of the University of Le Havre in France. It is on a long list of articles to be reviewed. I notice that there is a half-page description of the human trace paradigm, one of Béatrice Galinon-Mélénec's theories, on wikipedia but it is on the same page as a description of Sebastian Faulks' Human Traces novel. I would like to create a new page for the Human Trace paradigm which is, in fact, very different from the human traces that Faulks is illustrating in his novel. How could I do this? Coralroot (talk) 14:44, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Hi . The description of Galinon-Mélénec's work that was tacked on to Human Traces is out of place and should be removed from that article, although there is no great urgency.

 * If it would form a useful starting point for your proposed article, you may copy it, following the procedure outlined in Copying within Wikipedia, to wherever you want to write the article, such as your sandbox or a subpage thereof.

 * Your first article contains good advice that applies equally well to your second article. I would emphasize the importance of gathering references before you start to write, and making sure that the topic qualifies to be included in Wikipedia as a stand alone article - that it is notable, as demonstrated by significant coverage of it in independent, reliable, secondary sources. --Worldbruce (talk) 23:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

15:08:37, 13 September 2017 review of submission by Lena Weitz
I improved this draft after my first submission was declined. Please check the conversation with my reviewer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DrStrauss#14:25:21.2C_13_September_2017_review_of_submission_by_Lena_Weitz). I would like to ask if an experienced editor could take a look at the article and tell me what else I could improve before re-submitting it. Thanks!

Lena Weitz (talk) 15:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

17:12:15, 13 September 2017 review of submission by Abialic
Please I have been trying to create an article on my alma mater, but I just noticed the caption to be 'Methodist Boys' High School' instead of 'Methodist Boys' High School, Oron'. The article is in my sandbox and I'm having difficulty editing or renaming it. I need help. Abialic (talk) 17:12, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Hi . The draft is now named Draft:Methodist Boys' High School, Oron, and will be reviewed in due course. --Worldbruce (talk) 01:14, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Request on 17:25:30, 13 September 2017 for assistance on AfC submission by Kouklatess
This page should be published now. First, Ahmed White meets the notoriety requirement. The requirement is: "The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or distinguished professor appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon)." White holds the Nicholas Rosenbaum Professorship/Chair, which is a "named chair." The University of Colorado Law School, which is a "major institution of higher education"; it is one of only two state-run universities in Colorado. It is also a "major institution of higher education and research" as it is a "research one" university, the most premier type of research university. Therefore, Ahmed White meets the notoriety requirement. Second, Ahmed White is just as notable (and I would argue more notable) as others who appear on Wikipedia. For example, the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_A._Bintliff is a page for a librarian who previously received the same chair White has, i.e., the Nicholas Rosenbaum chair. Her Wikipedia page consists of two sentences: "Barbara A. Bintliff is an American lawyer, currently the Joseph C. Hutcheson Professor and Director of the Tarlton Law Library/Jamail Center for Legal Research at University of Texas School of Law, and was previously the Nicholas Rosenbaum Professor of Law and Director of the William A. Wise Law Library at University of Colorado." In short, if Bintliff is notable enough to have a page, then White is notable enough to have a page. Finally, White meets the requirements for significant contributions to a field of study. The requirements are variously described as: •	significant coverage (not just mere mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject •	The person's research has had a significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources •	The person's academic work has made a significant impact in the area of higher education, affecting a substantial number of academic institutions In White's case, the partial list of law review articles goes to this requirement. Law review articles are what law professors do; most law professors do not write books (although White did). In other words, law review articles ARE the scholarship of law professors. The reviewer DGG says "We do not normally list law review articles, unless they can be shown to be particularly influential by third party sources." Well, if the first part of that sentence is true—that it is not normal to list law review articles—then Wikipedia is ignoring the scholarship that law professors engage in. As for the second part of the sentence, about influence, that is precisely why I gave a smattering of White's article titles, and described his theory (another thing DGG criticized): to show that White's articles have created a body of work that has been influential in the areas of criminal, labor, and feminist legal theory. These theories were sketched out and their influence was established by the citations to the independent third parties (namely other legal scholars) who have cited White's articles. White is the "father" of a line of theory in legal scholarship, and that is what the citations to these articles by White, and to the articles by the younger scholars who are now citing to him, show. In summary, the citations to the younger legal scholars show that White has gotten "significant coverage" in "published, reliable sources that are independent of the subject." They show that White's "research has had a significant impact" in his field (substantiated by "independent reliable sources," i.e., by the citations to people like Ben Levin and Aya Gruber). And they show that White's work has had a significant impact "affecting a substantial number of academic institutions"—as demonstrated by the articles authored by people at law schools other than the one where White teaches in journals housed at law schools other than the one where White teaches (Harvard, Rutgers, etc.).Kouklatess (talk) 17:25, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Kouklatess (talk) 17:25, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I've left a comment on the draft. --Worldbruce (talk) 03:10, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

17:26:16, 13 September 2017 review of submission by JustForAll
I would like to know how to correct the submission based on this message: Cite error: Invalid tag; name "Hosey1984" defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

I have given different pages for the respective citations, so please advise what else needs to be done.

JustForAll (talk) 17:26, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Hi . It's good that you gave specific page numbers for each citation. When using the named reference feature (e.g. ) you can't use the same reference name with conflicting citation text. For example, you can't have both:
 * in the same article, because the first is for page 22 and the second is for page 24. A solution that will make the error message go away is to use different reference names for each page number, for example:
 * in the same article, because the first is for page 22 and the second is for page 24. A solution that will make the error message go away is to use different reference names for each page number, for example:
 * in the same article, because the first is for page 22 and the second is for page 24. A solution that will make the error message go away is to use different reference names for each page number, for example:

 * All of this rather misses the point of named references. Their main purpose is to avoid repeating the long text of the citation, see WP:INCITE. So typically one would define  once, and then write just   the next time you cite page 22. You can make this change to the draft to save some clutter in the editor.

 * There's another kind of clutter in the draft's rendered citations - the long description of Hosey is repeated four times with just a small variation, the page number. If you want to reduce that kind of clutter, you'll need to use some form of shortened footnotes. See Help:Shortened footnotes for details. --Worldbruce (talk) 06:24, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Request on 21:51:55, 13 September 2017 for assistance on AfC submission by Tranzcape
Hello,

I just created my aunt's page for the wikipedia review and she happens to be one of the most renowned yoga instructor of the country and we thought of including her in the wikipedia page. the submission was rejected stating reason being Advertisement. Can somebody help me more on this to how to make it a neutral one. Tranzcape (talk) 21:51, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Hi . Online searches for "Bijoylaxmi Hota" didn't locate any independent, reliable, secondary sources containing a significant depth of information about her, so she does not appear to be a suitable subject for the encyclopedia. If you can identify a few such sources, you may request at Requested articles that someone write an article about her. Your family connection means you have a conflict of interest. Therefore it would be a very bad idea to attempt to write an article about her yourself. The problems you've encountered so far are just a taste of how frustrating and time consuming you would find it, and in the end it would almost certainly be unsuccessful. --Worldbruce (talk) 06:44, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

23:19:45, 13 September 2017 review of submission by CreedanceCanada
I am wondering why my page was not accepted.

CreedanceCanada (talk) 23:19, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Hi . It was declined for the reason stated in the big pink box on User:CreedanceCanada/sandbox. The draft cites no independent, reliable, secondary sources. Without such sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on the topic. --Worldbruce (talk) 06:47, 14 September 2017 (UTC)


text:
Agnes G. Murphy

Agnes G. Murphy (1865 – 15 March 1931), was an Irish journalist and writer who wrote the first biography of Dame Nellie Melba.

Life
Born in Tullamore, King's County, Ireland in 1865, Agnes Murphy spent much of her life travelling and writing. She initially visited Australia in 1885 to see her sister Lily who lived there and remained there when her financial situation was seriously curtailed. She had at least one brother. She worked as a journalist in Melbourne, and about nine years later, in London. Her first novel One Woman's Wisdom was recalled in Melbourne due to a libel suit though it sold very well in The United Kingdom. She worked for the Melbourne Punch and the Melbourne Herald beginning as their social editor and the only woman on the Punch reporting team. Before she left Murphy was identified as the editor of Punch. While in Melbourne, in 1890 Murphy was a founder of Austral Salon which was created to support the intellectual advancement of the women of Australia.

In 1891 Murphy, with the Austral Salon, raised funds to allow Matilda Aston to go to University.

She returned to Europe to work in London, leaving Melbourne by ship on 30 March 1895. On arrival she sold her novel immediately and began working for a wide variety of British newspapers as well including The Pall Mall Gazette. She continued to write her 'Ladies Letter' for Punch  attributing them to Rhoda. She started an Austral Salon in London and was a popular hostess for singers and artists from Australia. Murphy spent two years working as Dame Nellie Melba's secretary and was trusted to write her biography which included several chapters written by Dame Melba directly. While living in London, Ada Crossley lived with Murphy in Swiss Cottage. Before leaving on a what ended up being a two-year trip, Murphy was elected to the council of the Society of Women Journalists. She was hired to be the advance Public relations for Crossley and as her health was also poor at the time she used the opportunity to recover. She continued to travel, with her lifelong companion Aimee Moore, returning to Australia on multiple occasions. They visited France, Spain, Italy, New York and San Francisco amongst others. It was there she was the first woman ever elected to membership of Geographical Society of California in 1904. She was an advocate for women and for Irish independence. Murphy gave talks and lectures around the world and worked for the New Zealand government on a tour of the US and Canada. She continued to work as an advance agent for musical performers.

Murphy died in London in 1931. She was buried in Hampstead Cemetery. After her death the Melbourne papers published a poem Murphy had written to her lifelong partner Aimee Moore.
 * In a dream I heard a message
 * From the Herald of the night,
 * And he said, "Your task is over,
 * Here no longer need you hover,
 * For your love no more will need you,
 * She has conquered in the fight."

 * Then I breathed her name in sadness,
 * And in silence sped away.
 * Through the realms of darkest distance,
 * Till at last with fond insistence
 * My cold lips gave forth the pleading, -
 * "With my darling let me stay."

 * "In that sphere," he answered gently,
 * "She will never need you more.
 * Come with me beyond the border,
 * There by loving service, order
 * That when she shall quit life's harbour,
 * There'll be light across the way."

 * "At the gate of God's high altar,
 * You will, wait and watch and pray,
 * Joy for her you loved so purely,
 * Till a tender Christ will surely
 * Hear your pleading for the loved one
 * You have left so far away.

 * "You will say, 'I loved her dearly,
 * More than life or death could prove.'
 * And our gracious Lord in pity,
 * Pointing to the Heavenly City,
 * Will cry."Peace! You both may enter,
 * Know you not that God is Love?"

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Agnes G. Murphy


text:
Gerkens

Gerkens is a surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Jacob F. Gerkens (1842–1906), German-born American police chief
 * Pieter Gerkens (born 1995), Belgian footballer
 * Muriel Gerkens (born 1957), Belgian politician

title: Gerkens


text:
2015 Adelaide Film Festival

The 7th Adelaide Film Festival was held in Adelaide, South Australia, from 15 to 25 October 2015.

Description
Amanda Duthie was the Festival Director of the 7th edition of the festival, which ran from 15 to 25 October 2015.

On the opening night of the festival, director and screenwriter Andrew Bovell received the 2015 Don Dunstan Award for his contribution to the Australian film industry.

The festival opened with Scott Hicks's documentary film Highly Strung and closed with Paolo Sorrentino's drama film Youth.

More than 180 feature films were screened at the festival, 40 of which were Australian films, 24 South Australian films and total of 51 countries were represented at the Festival.

Jury
The members of the International Feature Jury were:
 * Christian Jeune, French Director of the Film Department at Cannes
 * Annemarie Jacir, Palestinian Director of Philistine Films
 * Maggie Lee, American Chief Asia Film Critic, Variety
 * Sophie Hyde, Australian director and producer, of Closer Productions

In competition
The Foxtel Movies International Award for Best Feature Film at the Festival was won by Neon Bull.

The Flinders University Documentary Award was awarded to Canadian director Amber Fares for Speed Sisters.

Girl Asleep won the 2015 Adelaide Film Festival Best Feature People Choice's Award. Holding the Man documentary, Remembering the Man won the People's Choice Award for Best Documentary, while the most popular short was Meryl Tankard's Michelle's Story.

The following films were selected for the In Competition section:

 * International Feature Competition

 * Documentaries

Special screenings

 * Special Events

title: 2015 Adelaide Film Festival


text:
Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2015 February 3

= February 3 =

Sulfate calcination
Is there a substance which lowers the calcination temperature of anhydrite? Plasmic Physics (talk) 03:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Non-visible paint ?
For obvious reasons paint comes in colours (UK spelling) on the visible spectrum. But is it possible to produce paint with a colour beyond the visible spectrum ? (though I guess colour may be the wrong word) if so then what colour would such paint appear to the eye ? would it appear different if just off the red compared to the violet end ?

I suspect the answer is, yes, black and no respectively, but thought I'd check here ! GrahamHardy (talk) 10:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting point. For fun, I just googled 'infrared paint'. It returns pictures too ;-). -DePiep (talk) 10:51, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * The color something appears to be has to do with which spectral lines reflect. So there's a fair chance that ordinary paint reflects various infrared and/or ultraviolet wavelengths. In short, we already have it - you just can't tell by looking at it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:09, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Try googling "invisible paint" and "black light paint" for more examples. Gandalf61 (talk) 12:33, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * For WP references, see line of purples, impossible color, spectral color, and just for fun, list of fictional colors. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:18, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * "black light paint" is something different. That's paint that absorbs UV light and re-emits it into the visible spectrum.  Many materials do that.  They let you see where UV light is shining, but you're not "seeing" UV - the colors you see are in the regular part of the spectrum.  Paint like that probably doesn't reflect much UV at all.  It's kinda the opposite of what our OP is asking about.  SteveBaker (talk) 15:47, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * All paint reflects some light outside of the visible spectrum - some more than others - so any color of paint is reflecting some light that we can't see. But if you're asking for paint that ONLY reflects IR or UV or something, then such a "color" would appear black to our eyes.  Black paint can be made to reflect strongly in either the IR or UV - but generally it's poor at doing so in the regions of IR and UV close to the visible spectrum.  Sadly, nothing very exciting happens...the paint just looks black.  You can tell the difference though if you use a pair of night-vision goggles that reacts to IR light.  It's interesting to view the world through a pair of those because it opens up a world of "color" (albeit in shades of green) that we can't usually see.  I vividly recall looking at an american flag and noticing that the red and white stripes looked the same - only the blue corner with the stars on it was distinctive.

 * Also, if you know someone who had cataract surgery more than about 10 to 20 years ago, they had part of their eye removed that filters out some of the incoming UV light. My mother is one of those people.  They are actually able to see a little way into the ultra-violet.  A rare genetic condition can also prevent that part of the eye from developing - and those people can naturally see a little UV light.   These people don't get the perception of entirely new colors - UV just looks like blue or a blueish purple to them.

 * My mom is an enthusiastic gardener and reports that after her surgery, she could see very subtle spots and stripes on some flowers that she'd never noticed before - and that these subtle markings 'go away' when she wears her glasses (which, presumably, filter UV light). It turns out that some flowers have UV-reflective markings to help to guide bees in to land on them - rather like the markings we paint on airport runways.  Since bees see in the UV, this makes quite a bit of evolutionary sense.  To our normal eyes, those markings are the same "color" as the rest of the petals.

 * Modern cataract surgery avoids doing that because the additional UV exposure can damage your eyes - so people who had the surgery recently lack my mom's "super power".

 * SteveBaker (talk) 15:44, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * The paint could appear any color to the human eye. There's no reason in principle why you couldn't make a paint with some particular infrared reflectivity spectrum, and whatever visible spectrum you like. Obviously if the paint has to reflect infrared light that is close to the visible spectrum, it will likely also reflect at least some red light too so there would be a smaller range of possible colors. In principle, you could certainly make paint that reflected infrared but was transparent in the visible.--Srleffler (talk) 18:32, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I can envision a theoretical use for paint that reflecs IR or UV in addition to a visible color: encoded messages or images. Say you paint a wall with blue paint. Then you paint an image on the wall that reflects both blue and IR. Using night-vision goggles, the image invisible to others would be visible to you. Or did I just say something foolish?  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 11:29, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think this would be less secure than paint that takes UV light and makes it visible, since night vision goggles would be more likely in a situation where... you would be using night vision, if you get me. Also it'd show up on crap cellphone cameras since they don't have UV filters, I think. There's no reason it wouldn't work though.<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 14:38, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

What's the tougher technical problem for using hydrogen fuel in a car?
Wouldn't hydrogen be a better energy storage medium that those batteries that electric cars use? --Noopolo (talk) 14:49, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Here are several articles about the technical hurdles for running cars on hydrogen fuel cell technology. -- Jayron 32 14:58, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Hydrogen poses many problems if you try to use it in an internal combustion engine - mainly that it rapidly makes most metals that it touches very brittle - so engine reliability goes down the toilet and you have to make your engines out of exotic plastics and ceramics. However, you can use hydrogen in other ways - such as in a fuel cell that can generate electricity directly and thereby charge batteries and drive an electric vehicle.  That avoids most of the problems, but it still technically challenging.   Dispensing hydrogen is also a problem, it's tough to liquify (compared to fuels like propane) - so it has to be delivered as a highly compressed gas, which makes refueling difficult.   Storing the stuff is also tricky - those teeny-tiny molecules can sneak past most kinds of seal that you'd want to use.  It's also much more explosive and inflammable than gasoline - so you can have car crashes of hindenburg-like proportions.  There are many practical difficulties.  The other issue is that hydrogen doesn't occur naturally - it has to be manufactured - typically by electrolysis of water.   That's an inherently inefficient process.   Electricity=>Hydrogen=>Electricity is clearly a less efficient process than Electricity=>Battery=>Electricity.

 * SteveBaker (talk) 15:25, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The advantage of electric vehicles is you can simply drop them into the existing energy distribution infrastructure: plug them into electrical sockets, or stick a generator in them to burn existing, readily available fuels, or both, as with plug-in hybrids. Hydrogen vehicles require an entirely new hydrogen infrastructure, plus all the other issues listed above. Market effects should not be underestimated when evaluating how successful new technologies may be; a lot of companies have made that mistake and it cost them. --<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 23:27, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Forget hydrogen, it's a pain in the butt. You are much better if you turn Hydrogen into Methane. Methane is much easier to store and to use. Or better still turn it into Hexane. All you need is some carbon atoms. Hexanes are significant constituents of gasoline. Hexane is a colorless liquid at room temperature, odorless when pure, with boiling points between 50 and 70 °C. They are widely used as cheap, relatively safe, largely unreactive, and easily evaporated non-polar solvents.<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 04:19, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Add two more carbon atoms and make octane. But hydrogen as a burnt fuel isn't practical for energy density reasons and the source for hydrogen is petroleum (even though water could be the source, it's too expensive.)  Electric cars only make sense if the power plant is clean.  The problem is that the "gas tank" takes hours to fill, wears out, and costs thousands of dollars to replace.  Batteries aren't anywhere near the energy density of gasoline.  --DHeyward (talk) 14:51, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

 * The problem with Methane is that it's a horrible greenhouse gas...and burning it makes CO2 - which is precisely what we're trying to avoid here. So attaching carbon atoms to your hydrogen *completely* nullifies the entire point of doing this in the first place! SteveBaker (talk) 20:12, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

We do have an article Hydrogen fuel but unfortunately a lot of it is unreferenced. Richerman   (talk) 20:22, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Sun
When the Sun provides its heat, does it provide smoke along? From all the colours it is known of? -- (Russell.mo (talk) 19:56, 3 February 2015 (UTC))
 * Does the sun provide smoke to the Earth? No. The heat from the sun is not from a smoke producing combustion reaction to begin with, but rather from nuclear fusion. Can you clarify what you mean by the last part of your question, regarding colors? --OuroborosCobra (talk) 20:49, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Only if you expand the word "smoke" to include alpha and beta particles, gamma rays, etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:46, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * While the sun produces helium through nuclear fusion, calling these alpha particles is a bit sketchy (technically correct, but a bit odd to do so). Alpha particles are generally what helium atoms are called when they arise from fission rather than fusion processes, specifically alpha decay.  Indisputably, a helium atom is indistinguishable from any other helium atom regardless of the process that makes it, but to call a fusion-produced helium atom an "alpha particles" feels weird.  -- Jayron 32 00:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Solar_spectrum_en.svg you are asking what we know about the colors of light that the sun makes, see sunlight. This figure shows the amount of power at each wavelength or spectral color, both with and without the effects of our atmosphere. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:41, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * ♫ Caaaannnn you paint with all the colors of the wiiiinnnd... ♫ --<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 23:04, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * So, it doesn't produce smoke like, what comes out when we burn something? And gamma ray and other things that are related to long distant measurement, is the other way to define a smoke from the Sun...? Btw, I'm talking about all the colourful stars i.e., when they are in different phases... -- (Russell.mo (talk) 14:55, 4 February 2015 (UTC))
 * Different stars will have different spectra. So e.g. a red dwarf has a different color than our sun. So if you pick a certain star, say Sirius, you can often find out the spectrum of that star with some searching. Our article doesn't have a complete description of Sirius' spectrum, but it is mentioned with several references, and an analogous diagram to the one above could be made with existing data. Now, none of the stars "burn" - they do not combust, and they do not produce anything like what we call smoke (Bugs is making sort of a joke analogy above - those particles are not smoke). They produce heat and light through a totally different process, called nuclear fusion, linked above. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:08, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I have read the articles stated. Not that I remember any of it, I do get the idea behind how it comes to existence, burns... I thought, since it is like fire (blue, mostly yellow reddish colour, never seen white) it might produce smoke, since the ISM is smokey most of the time with particles... Thank you for the clarification -- (Russell.mo (talk) 15:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC))
 * As you should have read in those articles, you would have seen that it (stars) does not come into existence through burning and is not fire. Stars are not fire. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 19:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * To make smoke, it would have to emit something that condensed into small solid particles. For the sun, the solar wind blows off, but it is too hot and thin to condense into solid. For some other carbon rich red giant stars the can push off enough gas that condenses into carbon particles, very similar to smoke. Other stars can blow out heavier element rich material that condenses to silicate minerals. These particles are cosmic dust. and there are dark nebulae that are very smoke like out in space.  Eg Coalsack. Some cool stars like brown dwarfs will have clouds like smoke on them. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:35, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay! I get the idea... I've read all the article you stated btw... Thanks friends. Thanks for breaking it down Graeme I was actually expecting a real smoke. -- (Russell.mo (talk) 21:51, 4 February 2015 (UTC))

Gas lost from atmosphere
A topic that has come up in a science lesson but which a precise answer was unavailable is in regards to the amount of gas that is lost from the Earth each day. (Although there are also gains from volcano eruptions etc..) Assuming that there is a small amount that can drift off, how much gas from the Earth's atmosphere is in fact lost?  Dark Toon  Link  23:19, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently three kilograms (3 kg) of hydrogen and 50 grams (50 g) of helium per second. Atmospheric_escape --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:53, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Very helpful, thank you very much. I wasn't sure what the actual term was, but now that I've read it it's quite an interesting article. Thanks again!  Dark Toon  Link  00:06, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


text:
Rembrandtesque

Adjective

 * 1) Resembling the effects and/or techniques of the Dutch painter Rembrandt van Rijn (1609-69), especially in chiaroscuro.

title: Rembrandtesque


text:
Cookbook talk:Endive

* (cur) (last). . 07:55, 6 Dec 2003. . Secretlondon (stub on the salad leaf)
 * (cur) (last) . . M 12:46, 6 Dec 2003 . . Snoyes

title: Cookbook talk:Endive


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/ezer.mobi

Links

 * ezer.mobi resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the domainredlist.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
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text:
Talk:Clark Island

Untitled
I've changed the body, but the header/title is still wrong. (Don't know how to change it.) It's Clark Island (see the link to the NPWS website), not Clarke.

There is a Clark Island in San Juan County, Washington and when you click on its linkage you are directed ton this description of a Clark Island in Australia. This linkage should be changed but I don't know how to do it.

title: Talk:Clark Island


text:
Cookbook:Brassicas

Brassicas, also called cruciform vegetables because the leaves of a seedling form a cross, are a large group of vegetables, herbs, and spices.

Varieties
There are several species within the genus Brassica, and many of these have been selectively bred to yield a variety of plant products. Examples include:

 * Brassica oleracea: kale, cabbage, collard greens, broccoli, cauliflower, gai-lan, Brussels sprouts, kohlrabi, broccolini, broccoflower

 * Brassica rapa: Napa cabbage, turnip, rapini, komatsuna, bok choy, broccoli rabe

 * Brassica tournefortii: Asian mustard

 * Brassica napus: rapeseed, canola, rutabaga, Siberian kale

 * Brassica juncea: Indian mustard, brown and leaf mustards, Sarepta mustard

 * Brassica perviridis: tender green, mustard spinach

Characteristics
Several–though not all—brassicas have a bitter or peppery flavor, and when browned, many brassicas develop a sweet, nutty flavor. Care must, however, be taken when using moist heat cooking methods, as overcooking brassicas usually leads to the development of unpleasant sulfurous flavors.

title: Cookbook:Brassicas


text:
Murali K. Thalluri

Murali Krishna Thalluri (born 4 August 1984) is an Australian film director, writer, and producer.

Born in Canberra to Indian-born parents (Telugu), he moved to Adelaide where he attended Rostrevor College before completing his education at University Senior College.

His first feature film, 2:37, was completed when he was 22 years old and financed via private funding. It was screened at a number of international film festivals including the 2006 Cannes Film Festival, the Melbourne International Film Festival, the Toronto International Film Festival and the Tokyo International Film Festival.

Filmography

 * 2:37 (2006)

title: Murali K. Thalluri


text:
Talk:David Kidney

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on David Kidney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130527104255/http://centrallobby.politicshome.com:80/latestnews/article-detail/newsarticle/david-kidney-my-life-is-back-under-my-control to http://centrallobby.politicshome.com/latestnews/article-detail/newsarticle/david-kidney-my-life-is-back-under-my-control/

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:10, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:David Kidney


text:
Sam Currie

Samuel Percy Currie (22 November 1889 – 7 December 1962) was a Scottish professional footballer who made over 230 appearances in the Football League for Leicester City as a full-back. He captained the club.

Career
Born in Kilwinning, Scotland, Currie began his career with his hometown junior club Kilwinning Rangers, with whom he 1908–09 Scottish Junior Cup. He moved to England to join Football League Second Division club Leicester Fosse in May 1909. Between 1909 and 1922, he made 248 senior appearances, in addition to a further 123 non-competitive appearances during the First World War. Currie ended his career in the Third Division North with Wigan Borough, for whom he made 33 appearances before being appointed player-coach of the reserve team in March 1924.

Personal life
Currie's brothers Bob and Duncan also became footballers.

Career statistics

Honours
Kilwinning Rangers

 * Scottish Junior Cup: 1908–09

title: Sam Currie


text:
User:Reggie160/sandbox

Echo Lake Country Club is a private, member-owned country club located in Westfield, New Jersey. The club was founded in 1899 and the golf course was designed by Donald Ross.

History
The club was originally founded as the Cranford Golf Club in 1899 and a 9-hole golf course was designed by Willie Dunn in Cranford, NJ. In 1912, the club purchased the Harper Farm in Westfield, NJ and engaged Donald Ross to design the current course which was completed in 1913. The clubhouse was built on a high bluff overlooking Echo Lake.

In 1921, The Cranford Golf Club and the Westfield Golf Club merged, choosing the name Echo Lake Country Club to reflect both the site and the broad country club activities offered.

National Championships
The club has hosted two national championships conducted by the United States Golf Association:

title: User:Reggie160/sandbox


text:
Web Design/Responding to HTML forms with PHP

One of the simplest and yet most useful things we can do on a Dynamic site is interact with the information provided through our HTML forms!

A simple response
If you haven't already created a form for selling a product or service as part of the Intro to programming with JavaScript, create a form now... be creative! You may want to use HTMLDog or W3Schools as references as you go.

Make sure that your form:
 * includes at lease two normal input fields where your users can enter their first and last names (they should have name="firstname" and name="lastname" respectively).
 * allows a visitor to select a product to purchase,
 * allows a visitor to indicate the quantity of the product ("I'd like to buy 4 T-shirts").
 * allows visitors to include their billing information.
 * you've uploaded your form onto your website (or if you are using your own computer as a web-server, that you've put it in the right place) and test it out.

Responding to your form
When your form is submitted, we want to let our user know that we've received their submission. Create a new file with the following code: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">  My web site: Thanks for that! Processing your request

You might want to read through the code to see if it gives you any hints as to what it will do, but don't worry too much about the details just yet.

Save this file as response.php and upload it to the same folder as your form. Test it out by submitting your form again (but don't be disappointed if nothing happens!)

Connecting your form to your php file
Nothing happened? That's right! We haven't yet connected our form to our php file! All that's left to do is modify our html form tag so that it includes the following two attributes:  Note: you might have other attributes such as onsubmit="checkForm" inside your form tag—make sure you leave them there!

This now tells our form that the action it should take when the form is submitted is to send all the info to a file called response.php. There are two ways that this can be done with a web form, one is called "post" the other is called "get". We'll learn more about these later, but for the moment it's enough to know that we're "posting" our form information.

Submit your form again and you should now see a result!

Which method is better to use for your form: Get or Post?
While using HTML forms you can set form methods: "GET" (default) or "POST". Which one to use?

When using the GET method you can access all form variables with the $_GET array in PHP and when using POST you can access all the variables with the help of $_POST. You can also access all variables with the help of the $_REQUEST array. When using the GET method all the submitted data is displayed in the address bar. You will notice that information which is displayed after “?”, will be something like this: http://domain.com/script.php?name1=value1&name2=value2 According to PHP Form Tutorials it can be useful, where you want to bookmark a page with some specific query string values. However, the GET method is limited by the URL length (2083 characters in Internet Explorer according to Microsoft) and each of the input values must not override 100 chars. Maybe you also don't want to use the GET method because when submitting important data like passwords, etc, it will be displayed in the address bar.

The POST method has the possibility of much more volume in data sending (usually only limited by the server settings) and it may be used unless it represents benefits in comparing GET method. Some browsers can not correctly bookmark pages which are displayed after HTTP POST method, because the submitted data is displayed in the address bar. When you need the query string, which is retrieved by using the GET method (ineffective by it’s limits), try to use POST method for your forms. You can use the POST method to submit the important information which shouldn’t be displayed in the address bar.

Sending an email with the form information
In the past, we have used the action attribute of our form to automatically email our forms, like follows:  but this way of collecting information is pretty limited. (TODO:Add limitations)

Now that we're handling our form from PHP, it's really easy to send an email automatically. Try adding the following bit of code to the PHP code in response.php: // First set the subject of the email: $subject = "A new order from website";

// Then set the message text of the email. The \n character is for a new line // so that our email doesn't appear as one big line. $message = "A new order has been submitted by $firstname $lastname.\n Please respond ASAP"; // Then send it off using the php mail function! Find out the scary details // at: http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mail.php<EMAIL_ADDRESS>$subject, $message);

Make sure you substitute your own email address instead of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and then test it out!

The following activities need to be filled out in more detail TODO: Activity 1: Include more of your form information in your email.

TODO: Activity 2: (advanced), try sending an HTML email.

TODO: Activity 3: Use the "Redirect after Post" protocol to avoid the "double submit" problem.


text:
Talk:List of Indigenous writers of the Americas/Archive 1

Canadian First Nations writers
Hi

I do understand your reasons for removing the Canadians from this List of Native American writers, but I would ask you to consider a counter-argument. Most of these writers are Anishinaabe/Cree etc, tribes whose lands are to be found on either side of the border. They need to be seen in context with one another, not artificially separated by colonial national borders that were imposed against their people's wishes. There's some sense in having lists of writers done by tribe, but that would be to ignore a common history of persecution by the Brits & the French, followed by oppression by US and Canadian authorities, which gives meaning to reading works by Natives of different tribes. In short, as nomenclature and territory are such sites of dispute in First Nations/Native American circles, I'd argue for an inclusive as opposed to exclusive reading, which would have these writers appear on both lists. Otherwise this encyclopedia is simply endorsing the colonial act of possession and naming of the tribal peoples of North America. Vizjim 09:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * My objection isn't to combined lists that include both American and Canadian figures — my objection is to the list title "Native Americans", because that isn't appropriate terminology for a person from a Canadian First Nation. "Native American" is not generally accepted as an umbrella term for North and South American native/aboriginal peoples anywhere outside of the United States; that usage is deprecated in Canada, for example, precisely because it's ambiguous as to whether it means "of the Americas" or "of the United States". I'm perfectly fine with a transnational list, if that's the objective, but if that's going to happen the list has to be moved to a more inclusive title. Bearcat 18:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Can you suggest a term that is generally accepted? Here in Europe, "Native American" certainly *is* generally accepted as an umbrella term, as it embraces all peoples who were native to the two continents of America prior to conquest.  However, I know Natives who dislike being labelled "American" in any form, others who hate being called "Indian", some who refer to themselves as NDN, others who only ever want to be referred to as part of one tribe and never lumped into a racial category... like I said, nomenclature's something of a site of dispute.  There must be a way to combine this list.  How about we create a List of First Nations writers as a duplicate of this page?  Or List of writers of Native American/First Nations heritage, and then redirect both First Nations and Native American lists to that? Vizjim 08:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Inclusive vs exclusive
''The borders that determine the United States, Canada, Mexico, and Central and South American countries are all drawn with the blood of indigenous people, not to mention the Native populations of Hawaii, Alaska, and other not-quite-officially-colonies of U.S. imperialism; we should not continue to replicate such a system. While the government policies and issues facing Indian communities in each country are certainly different, there are also many shared experiences that deserve acknowledgment and discussion. Many Canadian Natives, including Maria Campbell, Tomson Highway, Thomas King, and Jeanette Armstrong, have entered the Native literature canon; they and many others deserve to be read and studied as much as U.S. tribal scholars and writers.'' - Justice, Daniel Heath: "We're not there yet, Kemo Sabe" American Indian Quarterly (25:2) [Spring 2001], p.256-269 Vizjim 12:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

 * That's perfectly fine; I understand it and largely agree with it. But that doesn't make Native Americans the appropriate terminology. Bearcat 05:06, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

First Nations
Again, I repeat: this list is not to include members of Canadian First Nations at its present title. If you want a list that's inclusive of First Nations writers, then find an inclusive title; as long as it stays at "Native American", Canadian writers cannot and will not be listed here. I'm perfectly happy to have a list that includes Canadians, but not at the present title. Bearcat 05:00, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I may not like the term Native American, but America is not a country. The United States of America is a country, America refers to two continents of the Western Hemisphere. I thnik the present first part of the article handles the name issue pretty well.Qwafl42 02:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Disputed
The whole continent with Canada censored out doesn't seem to be the solution, so I reverted that part, while adding a "Disputed" template to call attention to this disussion and dispute until some mininimally adiquate solution can be accepted. -- Infrogmation 12:11, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Where on earth do you get "the whole continent" from? Bearcat 01:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I understand your question. The article seems to deal with people from throughout the American continent. -- Infrogmation 17:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I really take issue with the idea that "America" refers to two continents instead of a country. The term "America" has been used to identify the USA in historical, diplomatic, and vernacular speech. It is not common to use the term "America" for continental reference. Typically, the continents are respectively termend "North America" and "South America".

Because there is significant geographical and historical discontinuity between the indigenous peoples of North and South America, and because it is not usual to lump authors of both continents into one list, I would like to propose that two lists be created - one for North America and one for South America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 11:44, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Page move
The article was mistakenly copy and pasted from " List of Native American writers" to "List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas". I have no objection to either title, but please: 1)Mention proposed title change of an article on the talk page before moving to get feedback before the move is made (except in obvious problem cases like a typo). MORE IMPORTANTLY: 2)NEVER try to "move" a page by copy and pasting to a new title! Use the "page move" feature, which is on the task bar at every article for logged in users. See How to rename (move) a page for details. A prime reason why this is important is that "copy and pasting" text of an article written or edited looses the attribution of who wrote what in the article history, contrary, to GFDL. (I have cleaned up this case, by deleting this article, rolling back the redirect edit of the old title article, and then performing a proper page move.) -- Infrogmation 17:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I've been away for the weekend, but just wanted to thank you for resolving this. I'm happy with the new title, and have no further objections to a transnational list. Bearcat 14:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Disputed
I removed the disputed box from the article, I hope not prematurely. Is there still any major problem? -- Infrogmation 17:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Jamake Highwater
Jamake Highwater's status is famously disputed. What do you think? Does he belong here? The source I just added to the article suggests that perhaps he does (although "there has been controversy").Smmurphy(Talk) 16:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Have you read Hank Adams' evidence on this score? It's here.  Highwater simply was not Native American: he could not, and never did, produce a shred of evidence to back up his assertion of Native genetic ancestry. Vizjim 17:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

 * sheepishly:: Sounds like a no. I just thought I'd bring it up based on the paper I was working through.  Thanks for the link. Smmurphy(Talk) 17:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion
I really don't see any consistency, or Wikiness, in criteria for inclusion in this article. The statement "people who self-identify" is entirely too vague and subjective. In lacks consistency in the policies for the 50 states, north of the Canadian border, and south of the Mexican border. If an author is indigenous to the tribes of the 50 states then they must be an enrolled member of a tribe or nation. The criteria of self-identity opens the door for vanity links as a viable source, and this is very un-Wiki like. The same criteria of enrollment applied to Canada is in some cases vague and non-verifiable, and it cannot be applied at all to indigents south of the US border and infers that they just need to be born there. I really don't see the need of this list under these considerations and the current criteria and believe that the indigents of the 50 states need their own list apart from this confusion. Amerindianarts (talk) 16:55, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree entirely with the creation of separate lists by tribe, which wouldn't in any case replace this list here. A separate list for US Native American writers would also work, though it seems a bit of a waste of effort.  Tribal enrollment is a minefield.  Would you have wanted to exclude e.g. Greg Sarris (until almost a decade after the publication of Watermelon Nights)?  What about 19th century Native writers such as Sequoyah, who weren't enrolled as there was no such process?  Enrollment is a colonial imposition that's very problematic for some people, and there are writers who are fullblood but have chosen not to enroll themselves (e.g. Wub-E-Ke-Niew), or rather allow themselves to be enrolled.  For that reason when I created this list I deliberately left a certain amount to common sense and try to keep an eye on the list for people such as Highwater, Forrest Carter, etc being added.  IPL, incidentally, which you quote as a source, is completely open to the same kind of gaming. Vizjim (talk) 11:08, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

 * PS - I think you meant "indigenous" rather than "indigents", which means poor and/or homeless people. Vizjim (talk) 11:09, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

 * The same problems exist for us at the List of Native American artists but the criteria remains the same. They must be an enrolled member. Historical figures are usually documented enough to verify.  As for the IPL, I don't use it as a source without double checking other sources, e.g. Hanksville or American Indian Arts Institute.  An example of the vagueness of the criteria is Velencia Tso-Yazzie. She is an enrolled member and several articles she has written can be found but she is not listed on any major lists.  So, does she remain uncited or do list the several websites referencing her?  In all my years at Wiki "common sense" has never been a verifiable criteria for any posting. Amerindianarts (talk) 14:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

 * If you want to set up a List of enrolled Native American writers, that seems logical enough. Writers aren't bound by the Arts & Crafts Act, so things work a little differently in discussions of Native literature.  However, you haven't really addressed my points about enrollment, so I'm not sure what else can usefully be said at this point. Vizjim (talk) 18:04, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

If they are not bound by the act that doesn't mean the same criteria can't be used or shouldn't apply. The Indian Arts and Crafts Act goes back to 1935. Enrollment began many, many years before that. If there is an artist or writer prior to enrollment there should be enough written to acknowledge their accomplishments, and heritage.

I am not starting another list. No time. There is one at Nativewiki that should be the center of attention anyway. You continue as you wish. I have made my statement. Amerindianarts (talk) 20:38, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Fair enough - but, as a footnote, what do you mean by saying that the (1990) Indian Arts and Crafts Act "goes back to 1935"? Vizjim (talk) 10:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Here are a few examples of writers who appear here (and on the Nativewiki list) who would be deleted under your criteria: Wendy Rose, Carter Revard, Jim Barnes, Diane Glancy, Marijo Moore, Louis Owens. These are some of the most significant Native writers of the last thirty years.  Are you going to campaign for them to be kicked off NativeWiki? Vizjim (talk) 10:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

 * How is it that they would be deleted? They are not enrolled members? Amerindianarts (talk) 16:58, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

 * If that is your reasoning then are you sure about these authors? Diane Glancy won an award from the Five Civilized tribes and I don't think that is an award given to non-enrolled members. Carter Revard was raised on the Osage reservation and is not an enrolled member? I find that doubtful. I will have to check further on the others.  But no, I'm not going to push the issue here.  Another user deleted the writers category from the List of Native American artists as a duplication, and given the criteria here I think that was a mistake and the category should be reinstated there. Amerindianarts (talk) 17:16, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Diane Glancy has written in several places about being non-enrolled (see, for instance, Firesticks or Claiming Breath). Carter Revard was adopted and also didn't fit the descent criteria. It's really not terribly unusual. Vizjim (talk) 08:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

 * What about Wendy Rose? She has a full blooded Hopi father and her mother is part Native American.  Is it just a matter of paperwork? Amerindianarts (talk) 14:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes: that's what enrollment is. Wendy Rose's situation is explained on the article at Wendy Rose. Vizjim (talk) 16:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

The Five Tribes Museum works with state recognized artists and writers. There is no law requiring Native writers to be enrolled - many have CBIDs but aren't enrolled. For instance Robert Conley is not enrolled but the Cherokee Nation has hired him many times to write for them. Obviously his is knowledgeable about his subject and respected in his community. I moved the very few authors listed in the List of Native American artists to this list to avoid duplication and because that list was woefully inadequate. And there's certainly unenrolled artists on that page too.-Uyvsdi (talk) 18:25, 31 March 2009 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Well, why don't you point the artists that are on that page who aren't enrolled and don't fit the criteria for that page. I have closely scrutinized the painters section and I believe they are correct. They are pretty easy to confirm. If you see anything objectionable make it known. Amerindianarts (talk) 18:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Grey Owl, etc
(Please also see the discussion immediately above). The idea of the sentences that introduce this list is to try to strike a balance between purists such as the user Amerindianarts, whose comments above originally suggest limiting the list only to enrolled members (as per the IACA), and those who would include writers with very vague and highly disputed links to indigenous ancestry. I think that the idea of an inclusive list needs to be explicitly explained, but then counterbalanced by mentioning those writers who do not qualify for inclusion. Unfortunately the issue of who is/is not an American Indian writer can get really quite fraught, and there is no gold standard of NPOV-ness that can be reached, so I have tried to word the standfirst to keep such wars away from this page. Vizjim (talk) 23:24, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

 * In that case I have to suggest that you create the article "List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas with purist ancestry according to Vizjim" or "List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas who are enrolled in Indian groups." Otherwise, you are stepping into an open debate in which you have no call in solving the matter. You are basically defining how much these people are "american indians", with your own admission that is POV. Take notice that I didn't even try to include those names in the list. So, this exclusion in the top is quite clearly an attempt to define the article without any objective basis.

 * If indeed there is controversy over these authors in the mainstream society, I propose that we include those names with the note "(disputed)" in front of the name. I have seen that used in many articles, and I believe this is the most wp:npov option we have. "Wikipedia is about verifiability-not truth". We must reflect the exact condition that they face over this category, based on reliable sources. Maziotis (talk) 01:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

 * No need for sarcasm. I've been through this wording with a number of editors previously, would be happy to see you re-word it and am happy to accede to a better wording.  However, I think that just deleting the offending sentence doesn't work very well.  Would you care to re-write the entire opening paragraph instead?  The "disputed" note seems like it'll create more trouble than it'll solve, but I'm happy to try it. Vizjim (talk) 09:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

 * A second thought after seeing another editor's contribution. You said that I'm trying to create a "List of writers from peoples indigenous to the Americas with purist ancestry according to Vizjim" - actually, I'm trying to do the exact opposite, creating a list of people who self-identify and whose self-identification has not been disproved. Vizjim (talk) 09:36, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

 * But if the criterion is yours, then we have a problem of whose list this is. On the other hand, if the list is objective and clear enough to define itself, why the note "it's obvious to everyone that these authors don't belong here". It seems like you are pushing for a definning led sentence where you (or whoever collective body wrote that part) have an authority on the subject. I think the problem is quite clear.

 * I am sorry if I sounded sarcastic. But I am trying to highlight that the article has a serious problem. I am not sure if we need to re-write the first paragraph. What I propose is that we delete the last sentence. If the article cannot stand on its own, then maybe it shouldn't exist at all. Maybe we will have to create a "List of writters who self-identify as american indigenous" for us to have an article with an objective, undisputed subject. Maziotis (talk) 11:11, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I support the sentence with links to Grey Owl, Forest Carter, etc., especially in its current form, simply because it's educational. Non-native people and people not involved with the Native community might not be aware of these individuals or the phenomenon of non-Native writers trying to assume a Native identity. Self-identifying is tricky. There is a major difference between a non-Native person lying about belonging to a tribe, ala Jamake Highwater, and someone of known Native descent who is not enrolled in their tribe, ala Robert Conley. For known nonenrolled authors, I simply put "-descent" after their tribe. If that's not clear enough, the entry could read "nonenrolled [tribe]-descent." William Least Heat-Moon's background seems highly dubious, but he was notable enough to have an article about him, so I put "contested Osage descent." Indian identity is incredibly complex- what about people previously enrolled who are disenrolled? What about people eligible to enroll but who simply haven't done so? (I know people in both situations.) What about non-recognized tribes? For instance L. Frank, whose notability and Indian identity is not under question at all, belongs to tribes that are not federally recognized. Enrollment is irrelevant for Native writers from anywhere besides Canada and the US and for Native Hawaiians. Notability is a factor that should be considered too. Obviously none of us are omniscient, but the Indian community is still fairly tight knit, and new scholarship about Native authors is continually expanding. You simply provide the best information that you can.-Uyvsdi (talk) 19:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)Uyvsdi

 * If it's obvious that this list should only concern people who are genealogically descent of indian blood, why the need to make a notice in the beginning of the article for the rest of them? If it's not, then who are you to decide what this article should be about? It's very simple.

 * I truly appreciate your lesson on the several current categories in terms of being "indian", but that doesn't really provide an answer for the discussion we were having here. Maziotis (talk) 22:27, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing the problem with a single sentence providing valuable information. Non-Indian writers posing a Indians is a reality, and mentioning this fact is helpful (with famous examples). Who am I? A published Native American author (not on this list, don't worry). Who are you? We're all editors, so really it doesn't matter who we are - we should all work together in good faith. My solution, to recap from last post, is a) leave the sentence - it's educational, b) for nonenrolled authors (in the US and Canada), list "descent" after their name, c) for people whose identity is truly in question, add "contested" in front of their tribe, d) people whose identity is not known and authors who aren't notable, remove them for the list.-Uyvsdi (talk) 22:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)Uyvsdi

 * You don't seem to understand what Wikipedia is and how it works. Obviously, the fact that you are a published native american author is an asset for you as an wikipedian and for Wikipedia, as long as you use that value in the terms of what Wikipedia sets its goals.

 * If there is a dispute on whether Owell and Churchill are "indian americans" in this list, then there is a dispute on whether Owell and Churchill are "indian americans" in this list. My question "who are you?" was meant to be rethorical, and not offensive. My point is that this is not the palce to solve such dispute. You are not an authority on this matter, and even if you were, you could not display such authority as an wikipedian.Remember: "Wikipedia is not a primary source" and "wikipedia is about verifiability-not truth". Our job is to write an encyclopedia, reflecting the sources in a neutral way.

 * My last response was based on the perception (mine and of another user) that there is a problem on the definition of the subject of this article. When I tried to list the possibile interpretations for this list, and where these men could stand, I didn't actually conceive the possibility that you would actually assume this led to be the time and place to advance a clarification on this debate. I can see no justification, under wikipedia policies, for you to demand writing an errata at the beginning of this article.Maziotis (talk) 23:36, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

 * But there is no dispute whatsoever. Grey Owl (not Owell) and a number of others have been proved (see the sources in the appropriate articles) not to be of Native descent, and therefore are excluded from the list, perfectly in line with verifiability policies.  However, in dealing with a difficult and hotly disputed area such as Indian identity, where people regularly dispute the "right" of others to call themselves an Indian writer, it is, I think, necessary to have a standfirst that explains clearly that this is a non-exclusionary list (which is all that the current standfirst does). The alternative seems to me to be a list without such a clear guideline, which is an open invitation to POV and inclusion disputes. Vizjim (talk) 08:22, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * If there is " no dispute whatsoever" and it is "proved" then there is no need to have them on the list, which is pointed out by Maziotis. It is inane to make it a part of the criteria which was pointed out by me.  If it is "proved" then the info should be readily available for resolving any dispute if someone tries to put them on the list, and I am absolutely certain that someone will be playing watchdog and monitoring this list in the event that an editor tries to do so.  Think logically. Think encyclopedic. Amerindianarts (talk) 08:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

The opening paragraph clearly points out that the criteria for "peoples indigenous to the Americas" is a slippery slope. Even though the list is predominately Native American there are no clear lines of demarcation for inclusion to the list. Specifying which individuals are to be excluded is inane and provides no useful information as to who is to be included. As such it falls outside of the scope of the article as a criteria. The listing of individuals to be excluded may have an educational value, but that value lies elsewhere and does not conform to good Wiki, or encyclopedic form. Otherwise, the only requirement is that if the last sentence is to be retained, the word "only" must be removed. Within the context it is definitely inappropriate in regard to Wiki standards. Amerindianarts (talk) 09:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I would recommend reading both the edit history and talk page for Grey Owl and also the deletion discussion for this page (linked at the top) for a context that might explain why some editors feel the disputed sentence is necessary. Vizjim (talk) 08:25, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * This article was a candidate for deletion. It was voted a keeper and many of those voters also made recommendations none of which as far as I can see have  been implemented.  It is still in pretty much the same form as it was when it was made a candidate.  I would like to see it made in good form but I'm not going to spend a lot of time here arguing.  I noticed that several positive voters recommended changing the title.  I think this is  1) because the first paragraph is not sufficient, and 2) "peoples indigenous to the Americas" is such a slippery slope, especially when there is such an intermixing of different groups, some which have a clearly defined criteria and others that really don't have much of a criteria at all. Confronted with these problems needing to be resolved adding a list of individuals not to be included in what is an encyclopedic format strikes me as juvenile.  That is all I'm going to say about this and the reigning editors here do what you will.  Most of the info here can be found elsewhere on Wiki, if you get my meaning. Amerindianarts (talk) 08:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * There are no "reigning editors" and it's not necessary to start calling people's actions "juvenile" just because those people don't agree with you. As one of those people I have indicated that I would welcome a suggestion for rewording of the first paragraph, but (politely) disagree that the simple deletion of a sentence will work. Equally, I would welcome a suggestion for an alternative title that adequately reflects the content - the current title is definitely clunky, but it does the job. Continuing to post messages here that posit problems without offering solutions isn't very helpful or useful in improving the article.  Your final point that most of the info here can be found elsewhere on Wiki seems to indicate that you aren't fully cognizant of the uses of list articles (WP:LIST), one of which is indeed to index material available elsewhere in the wiki. Vizjim (talk) 15:56, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * The recommendation to rename made in the deletion discussion was to change to List of Indigenous American writers. The first problem with this is that it excludes Indigenous Canadian, Mexican, South American writers and so forth.  The second problem is that the word "indigenous" is problematically ambiguous - under one dictionary definition, anyone born in America is Indigenous.  As the discussion with Bearcat at the top of this page shows, any attempt to use terms such as "Native American" or "First Nations" will be seen as problematic. Vizjim (talk) 16:00, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't name call because someone disagrees with me. And I wasn't referring to the act. I was referring to the level of the mentality of the edit in trying to discern a suitable criteria. And yes, there are reigning editors. Despite all the argumentation here little has been done to remedy the complaints. As far as myself, how much time to you think I have to monitor this page and spend the time on this talk page getting nothing done? I have a hundred other pages with priority that I monitor and I have very little time in my day as it is to do Wiki things. This article is not one of my priorities but I do feel it is worthwhile and would like to see it in good form, which it is not, despite all the time that appears to have been spent on this page and others. My only suggestion is rather than a generic, alphabetized list, the list be categorized according to ethnicity with each category having its criteria. The problem with this however is that it makes it more apparent that the material is duplicated elsewhere on Wiki. Beware of definitions like the one you cited above. Not only does it contribute to the slippery slope argument but it is this type of mentality that is the reason laws and acts have to be enacted in order to protect Native American interests.

In regard to defining a criteria by selecting what it is not, the method is sometimes used in philosophy when trying to define something when you don't know what it is or if it even exists. But this method generally results in only more questions and the problematic multiplies exponentially. I suppose the same method is used in science and in labs by a process of elimination, and sometimes an answer is found as producing massive volumes of negative data.

I also suggest this: the opening sentence declares those that "self-identify" are eligible but the next sentence then refers to satisfying tribal memberships, enrollments, blood quantum, yet the discussion has evolved around entries that may satisfy one at the exclusion of others, e.g. blood requirements but not enrollment. There seems to be a huge logical gap, or leap here. Who can not be on this list seems to be inserted in order to fill this gap, but is hardly sufficient. What does blood quantum mean as opposed to membership or conforming to a legal description? Does this mean that 50% quantum in a non-enrolled member is sufficient but 1% quantum in a self-identifying individual is not? Sorry, but I still don't get it. Self-identify is extremely ambiguous, or even vague, meaning; it is questionable that the term can even apply.

In regard to my reference of "juvenile": In light of the noticeable lack of criteria concerning "self-identity", "blood quantum", "enrollment", etc., the specification of certain self-identifying individuals appears as nothing more than vindictive.Amerindianarts (talk) 19:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * The criterion is self-identification unless such self-identification has been factually disproved. Self-identification surely doesn't need much in the way of explanation, does it? It means that the person, in a WP:SOURCE-satisfying source, has identified themselves as Native, First Nations, Native Hawai'ian, Indigenous, Amerindian, Inuit, or a member of another indigenous group within the United States.  Why insist on exclusionary criteria such as "blood quantum" (and how, exactly, would you genetically profile writers without original research?) or "enrollment" (see our previous discussion of enrollment above)? Vizjim (talk) 06:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Also (and I apologise in advance for this), I've read the following sentence about 18 times and still can't make head nor tail of what you are saying: "I also suggest this: the opening sentence declares those that "self-identify" are eligible but the next sentence then refers to satisfying tribal memberships, enrollments, blood quantum, yet the discussion has evolved around entries that may satisfy one at the exclusion of others, e.g. blood requirements but not enrollment." Could you break this suggestion down for me a bit? Sorry if I'm being thick. Vizjim (talk) 09:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

You can't understand what I say is one way of countering that I can't understand what you say. If you're happy with the criteria, let it ride. I can be more productive elsewhere. Given the current criteria, if I wanted to make an addition to this list I would only feel secure by adding an enrolled Native American The rest is hodge-podge.Amerindianarts (talk) 23:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


text:
Kamaraj College

Kamaraj College is one of the oldest arts and science colleges in Tamil Nadu, having been established in the southern port city of Thoothukkudi by various Hindu charitable organizations in the year 1966. The college has been named after the former chief minister of Tamil Nadu K. Kamaraj.

The college is run by the Tuticorin Educational Society, which also runs a Matriculation School and a women's college within the lush green campus. The campus covers an area of 50 acres and has a student strength of 5,000.

The college and society were founded by the late industrialist, Sri. AMMS Ganesa Nadar, managing director, The Tuticorin Spinning Mills Ltd, and Hindu Charitable organizations including Karapettai Hindu Nadar Sangam, for the noble purpose of upliftment of the Hindu community.

The institution offers a variety of courses in business, commerce, arts and science with special courses on e-commerce, shipping & logistics, forensic science, visual communication, sports science, artificial intelligence and data science.

A total of 12 courses are offered under the govt-aided stream, with 29 courses offered under the self-financed stream. Together, there are 28 under-graduate courses, 13 post-graduate programs, and 9 research centers for doctoral studies.

The college is affiliated to Manonmaniam Sundaranar University, Tirunelveli, and is accredited with A+ grade by NAAC, with a CGPA of 3.31. MCA, a professional course offered by the college, is approved by the AITCE, New Delhi.

Courses Offered
* From Academic Year 2024-25

Scholarship Program
The institution runs a robust scholarship program for deserving students. A 50% waiver in annual tuition fees are offered to all eligible candidates applying for the Aided and SF degree program.

Students can apply for scholarship under any one of the four categories;

Meritorious Students:

Scholarship cut-off for high-mark achievers in +2 board exams

 * 92% and above in core subjects (for admission in SF courses)
 * 96% and above in core subjects (for admission in Aided courses)

Sports or Cultural achiever (District Level and above)

Financial Criteria: All students from government-run schools are eligible

(or)

Distress: Student whose parent has passed away (either Father or Mother)

Eligible students who apply are automatically granted scholarship

Arts & Humanities

 * Tamil
 * English
 * History
 * Criminology

Commerce

 * Commerce
 * Business
 * Economics

Science

 * Computer Science
 * Mathematics
 * Microbiology
 * Chemistry
 * Physics
 * Zoology
 * Botany
 * Visual Communication
 * Physical Education

Major Events during the Academic Year
1. Academic Events

Various International, National and State-level Conferences, Seminars, Workshops and Exhibitions are organized by the respective departments. About 200 such programs are held every year in the college.

2. Celebrations

The college celebrates Independence Day, Republic Day, Pongal Day, Women's Day and Kamarajar's Birthday in a grand manner. Mini-cultural programs are generally held during these events celebrating the local tradition and culture

3. Sporting & Cultural Events

Three major Sporting and Cultural events are organized by the college every year.

Thamarabarani Trophy and Founder's Trophy are inter-departmental competitions held in odd and even semesters respectively. All 24 departments of the college participate in these competitions

Over 30 colleges and schools from all over Tamil Nadu participate in the annual Pongalovium Trophy inter-collegiate cum inter-school sports-cultural festival organized by the college

Campus Placement
Campus Placement is an important avenue for career development of the students. About 250 students are placed via campus recruitment in the college. A wide range of reputed companies, from large Banking & Finance companies to ITES firms, Publishing companies to Core Manufacturing firms, visit the college every year for their requirements

Entrepreneurship Development
A Business Incubation Centre has been established to assist the students to develop their entrepreneurial traits and enable them to become entrepreneurs straight out of college. The center is supported by the Faculty, Management and Alumni of the Institution. The centre, located within the college premises, provides working space, meeting rooms and secretarial services and add-on support like legal services, technology and IP related services.

Infrastructure
Kamaraj College has been developed and is fully established with five Academic Blocks.

 * Swami Vivekananda Block (Aided Courses)

 * AMMS Ganesan Nadar Block (Aided Courses)
 * Golden Jubilee Block (SF Courses)
 * C.V. Raman Block (SF Courses)
 * Bharathiyar Block (SF Courses)

The academic buildings house the Lecture Halls, laboratories and Seminar Halls

The other campus buildings include:

 * Admin Block
 * Auditorium
 * Marine Research Centre
 * Canteen
 * Boys Hostel Building
 * Girls Hostel Building

The Admin building houses the Central Library, Business Incubation Centre, Research Centre, Alumni Centre, Chess Club, Principal's Office and Society Conference Hall. Marine Research Centre has interesting live sea-water animals on display.

The campus has various sporting facilities including a full-size Foot-ball Ground, Basket-ball Court, Kabaddi Ground and Kho-Kho ground.

Apart from the above, there is also a Matriculation School and a dedicated Women's College within the 50 acre campus

Affiliations & Accreditations
The college is affiliated with Manonmanium Sundaranar University, Tirunelveli for its UG, PG, and PhD Programs. The professional MCA program offered by the institution is approved by AICTE, Delhi. The college is recognized by the University Grants Commission.

Alumni
All students passing out of Kamaraj College automatically become members of their respective Department Alumni Association. The college has a thriving Alumni body. An Annual Alumni Meet is held every October in a grand manner at the college campus with various events and competitions. Alumni members extend their support in Student Placement and Business Incubation activities

title: Kamaraj College


text:
Introduction to German

Welcome to Introduction to German, part of Foreign Language Learning and Language and Literature school. The aim of this beginner level course is to tell you about the basics of German, no prior knowledge is required. However it helps if you are good at English (used in this guide!) and know some grammar, like the difference between "plural" and "singular", you can move ahead. You can also join the German Stream if you so desire. :)

First steps
Congratulations! To continue reading this page you just made the first step to learn German. So you can now say the classical phrase: "Ich lerne Deutsch" (rough Anglicized pronunciation: ish lerne Doich).

Now you have two things to master: Vocabulary and Grammar

The trick is that you can't focus just on one of these. You may think that vocabulary is enough. If you know the words, then you can say and write anything you want... but it is not that true. You also have to learn how to say and write it! Fortunately for you there is a good opportunity to practice this right here at Wikiversity.

Vocabulary
All material concerning the German vocabulary is concentrated at German vocabulary and its subpages. Please help develop it further, possible in cooperation with Wikibooks using the well developed German textbook.

Alphabet and Pronunciation

 * Please see The Alphabet (at Wikibooks).

Grammar
See German grammar.

Typing German
See Typing German characters into a computer.

🇨🇴 For a PC, you have quick access by typing the following: ß - alt+225 ä - alt+132 ö - alt+148 ü - alt+129 Ä - alt+142 Ö - alt+153 Ü - alt+154

On a Mac, the commands are as follows: ß - ⌥ + s ä - ⌥ + u, a ö - ⌥ + u, o ü - ⌥ + u, u

Note: the umlaut can be assigned to any vowel by first holding '⌥' and pressing the 'u' key. It will then wait for a vowel key to be pressed.

Assignments
To help you get acquainted with the written language, use this subpage to get in contact with German speaking Wikiversity participants.

Related materials

 * German language on Wikipedia
 * German, an open-ended textbook at Wikibooks

Learning materials and learning projects can be used by multiple departments. Cooperate with other departments that use the same learning resource.

Learning materials and learning projects are located in the main Wikiversity namespace. Simply make a link to the name of the lesson (lessons are independent pages in the main namespace) and start writing!

Learning Resources

 * A podcast for students Slow German is spoken clearly and slowly. More information at www.slowgerman.com (not cost free)
 * An online learning tool Duolingo helps you practice vocabulary and grammar. More information at www.duolingo.com (free)

Active participants

 * RedAugust
 * Exorcist_bob
 * MjVP13
 * Daniel M. Roberts
 * HappyCamper
 * --Smithgrrl 02:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC) Ich spreche Deutsch nicht besonders gut, aber möchte gerne helfen wenn ich kann!
 * Kaiti Ich werde wenn ich kann helfen!
 * Enlil Ninlil 04:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * -Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 18:51, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

title: Introduction to German


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James Roosevelt (lawyer)

The result was keep. Tone 21:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

James Roosevelt (lawyer)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Not notable. Fails WP:GNG. WP:NINHERITED. The one reliable source with significant coverage is a special to the New York Times, a marriage announcement, which is akin to a press release in this case.--Michael WhiteT·C 19:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC) --Michael WhiteT·C 19:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:05, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:05, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Leaning keep, based on The Intercept article, which describes him as a powerful figure within the state party, and which details a noteworthy event. BD2412  T 21:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The one-line statement that he is a power broker in the state party is an assertion of notability (and a weak one at that, even many state representatives are only notable through WP:NPOL but not WP:GNG), not significant coverage. Being involved in a "noteworthy" event does not necessarily make one notable.--Michael WhiteT·C
 * , perhaps you did not read the entire article in The Intercept, which has one sentence about Roosevelt early on, but another five sentences of biographical content later on in the article. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  22:00, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Keep - as rules chair of the DNC, he's been involved in several controversies, and there is ongoing coverage of him for different hings. Bearian (talk) 23:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep- Notable work at the DNC, just spoke at the DNC on national television and has a recognizable family name Pennsylvania2 (talk) 01:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: Has enough sourcing to merit an article. p  b  p  13:02, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete most of the sourcing is to public databases, primary sources, or social pages newspaper coverage. This is not the stuff notability and passing GNG is made of, and the few sources that do lend towards notability are not enough to pass any reasonable threshold. The United States does not have noble families and people do not get articles just because of whom they are related to.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Leaning keep - Roosevelt is a powerful national Democratic Party figure, who despite often staying out of the public eye has tremendous influence on state and national politics due to his position and his connections. Even without the recent stories that were cited by User:BD2412, I believe these reasons make him a sufficiently notable person. Andrew11374265 (talk) 01:55, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep The NPR story includes significant coverage of him, as does The Intercept. The 1968 New York Times coverage of his wedding should not be discounted. At 12 paragraphs, it is far longer than than the usual routine wedding announcement. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  21:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


text:
Kazemabad, Nishapur

Kazemabad (, also Romanized as Kāz̧emābād) is a village in Darbqazi Rural District, in the Central District of Nishapur County, Razavi Khorasan Province, Iran. At the 2006 census, its population was 55, in 9 families.

title: Kazemabad, Nishapur


text:
Talk:Hitler's Germany

Is this a calendar-specific course (ie "week one" starts on a specific date), or can people start whenever they want? If so, what would a student's options be if they were interested in starting the course now? Cormaggio 18:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that Kfitton would be fine with students starting the course "late". I recommend you email him.  The Jade Knight 19:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with people jumping into the discussion mid-point as long as they take the time to catch up. Preferably anyone that jumps in should really try to make it to the point of writing a paper on the topic, as the discussion and analysis of that work is going to be the major feedback from me as to whether or not you would likely pass a university class on the same subject. It's also good practice for writing history papers and there are plenty of topics in this discussion to choose from. When I took the class myself, it ended up being a 15 pg paper on the Use of Social Pedagogy in the Third Reich. --Kfitton 07:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Right - thanks for clarifying (and Michael too). So, then, will this course be "over" at a certain point in the future? Cormaggio 08:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Well...for the moment, I'm not planning on continually recycling the class each time we hit 7 weeks. I want to run through one cycle and see how it looks with one complete class. If there is enough depth and information presented, then I believe others will be able to read the information and follow the discussions that have already occurred and hopefully gain something. It is by no means a complete class as in the traditional sense, rather an opportunity for learner to be guided along this train of thought so that if at some point in the future they plan on taking a university class on the subject, they will already have a familiarity and perhaps better chances at passing. --Kfitton 17:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Nod. I hope that it will be useful to more people in the future - or possibly restructured or modified to make it into a course which could be used at any time. It'll be interesting to see if/how we can recycle such a course structure - I can try and help out if possible. Cormaggio 17:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nazi Revolution recommended for who?
You must be joking. This book probably reveals more about the authors and their peculiarities/fixations than it does the history of Nazi Germany. There is not a single citation in sight, yet it tries to push highly controversal "Nazi sexuality" theories, venturing into an absurd world of pseudo-scholarship. Again, did I mention there are no sources? Its take on Nazism and classism is skewed (part of the "bury the lower classes" flavor) and there isn't so much an argument as there is a narrative in most of these articles. I have this book sitting on my toilet to use as toilet paper when I run out.--<IP_ADDRESS> 05:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The Nazi Revolution by Allan Mitchell, 4th ed. Highly recommended!

 * Your trolling would be much more convincing if you had an actual username instead of just an IP. But to answer your accusation, yes I am quite serious about suggesting that particular book almost for the exact reasons with which you seem to vilify it - the point that historians need to learn that there are more than one version of events out there and it is necessary to take into account multiple points of view, even if you disagree with them in order to try and construct the most accurate analysis possible.  By looking at theories as presented in Mitchell, it is possible to see how widely people differ over this topic.  Considering that Nazi Germany and the Holocaust are highly debated, I find that the resource has merit.  --Kfitton 18:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree wth Kfitton that the tone you take is anything but analytical, and if you plan to have academic discussion here, you should register a username. That the book does not use citations, however, is (in my opinion) a very valid concern; such books can certainly be used effectively in a classroom setting, but must always be taken with a particular grain of salt—without citations, they are extraordinarily difficult to verify.  The Jade Knight 20:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

"'The Ominous Parallels"' by Leonard Peikoff
Someone added this to the reading list and I have taken it off for a variety of reasons - the main one being that the person does not have an account (only ip was listed in the edit) and has not introduced themselves as a participant. If they want to take part, please take part in the discussion or the talk before adding things willy-nilly. --Kfitton 00:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmm, this isn't exactly welcoming of newcomers - surely, the book should be analysed on merit or interest, rather than simply having been added by an anonymous user. It could well be a participant in this course who hadn't logged in. This also goes for the comment above - I thought it was a valid critique, if a little fiery (though I have no idea if it's an appropriate response on the book itself, not having read it). Surely we can take a bit of criticism - both personally, and of our sources? You're of course free to dismiss that criticism - as is anyone. But, most importantly, let's try to encourage people to participate, rather than shun them just because they haven't revealed their identity yet.. Cormaggio 14:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think anyone reading this page is learning that I don't like people that completely hide behind the security of the internet (using an ip only) while trying to make claims on this page. I don't discourage anyone from participating, in fact I'm a bit disappointed that discussion on the main page has died down, What discussions were had, I felt that people were gaining a real good traction on the subject. If the shadowy slipper-in of sources wants to actually take part in the discussion I'm all for it, but just putting something in the list without any background..I don't want people thinking that I've stopped looking at this page. I put more than a few hours into making sure that the information was as accurate as I could. If I wanted to be hostile, I would have just deleted the insert entirely...instead I pasted it into this page to get some discussion on it before it's a main page item. To be quite honest, while I'm not a fan of Rand and Objectivism, I would still like to hear from our shadowy figure why they chose to slip that in there. --Kfitton 23:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Also i would recommend reading the books as published by Albert Speer; " Spandauer Tagebucher" and other publications. I recommend them because it gives an insite from behind the scenes. One might not find it neutral, but it is highly interesting to see the view from a leading figure. Bart 21:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

One of the interesting things about the period in question is that there are SO many records available...someone could read years and years worth of records and still find something new each time. Without a lifetime of study, it would be nearly impossible to give a complete recount of what it was like in those days. --Kfitton 01:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned?
Is this project still being maintained? There has not been significant activity on it for ages. The Jade Knight 13:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I check it from time to time, but no one has added questions or commentary to address...so I haven't added the answers to the last questions until someone wants to attempt it. --Kfitton 20:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Ok. Just checking.  I'm wondering if we could make instructions more clear; your introduction certainly does this to an extent, but doesn't seem to be getting through; people are signing up, but not participating.  Perhaps you could consider sending a canned message to everyone that signs up?  Just save it on a user subpage (like User:Kfitton/Messages) and then just copy and paste it at the talk pages of anyone who signs up.  Perhaps that would encourage them to be more active?  Also:  your image appears to be broken.  Thanks for providing this good discussion resource.  FYI:  Categorization of pages is now very important.  I've started the process, and started a discussion at the school talk page, and you're welcome to get involved.  I'll be posting more as I come along.  The Jade Knight 08:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Opposing Viewpoints

 * Some pro-Nazi but more specifically sober nationalism can be found on stormfront.org forums. From a quick skim of this course, I've probably learned more from that website than I have in schools or would expect to in this class.

title: Talk:Hitler's Germany