text:
Talk:Tengrism

Irina S. Urbanaeva
Irina S. Urbanaeva is buddhist monk not academic scholar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 11:10, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
The principals part is a Turkish islamic propaganda and it should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 02:57, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Untitled
I have doubts that Tengriism is a Shamanism based blief system. As far as I know Tengriism existed in between Turks before Shamanism arrived to Central Asia. Before the mix with Shamanism Tengriism or the old Turkish Religion was like a Monoteistic blief system. Please check: Jean Paul Roux La religion des Turcs et des Mongols, ed. Payot, 1984. (translated into Turkish)   Tengriteg

 * Thats right. I know this book, and some others of Jean Paul Rox. But i've wrote this article before i read his books. The Tengrism articles in german and turkish wikipedia has already the correct version, but i forgat to change this one. "Shamanism based belief" is not correct, i'm changing it jet. ---Erdal 08:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge with Tengri
Since Tengri and Tengriism are essentially the same topic, I suggest mergin them here. However, the information in Tengri must be treated with great care, as most of it doesn't seem to be supported by any sources (despite the references listed at the bottom). --Latebird 10:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * [Presumed oppose]. Do you think that is really a good idea, considering the Tengri-influenced people of Kazakhstan can see the difference between Islam and Muslimness? :o)

 * [Presumed support]. Add Tangra to this merge project. -Mats Halldin (talk) 05:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That part turned out to be easy, hence done. --Latebird 10:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * [Oppose]. Tengri and Tengriism are not the sametopic. Simply Tengri is the Turkic name given to the god, and Tengriism is a blief system. Merging them is similar to merging Jesus and Christianity. Sincerely Täñritäg 11:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And what specifically can you tell us about Tengri other than he is a deity as defined by Tengriism? With Jesus we have a biography that justifies a seperate article, so that comparison doesn't quite work as you suggest. --Latebird 11:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm opposed, it's just like merging Allah into Islam or Yahweh into Judaism. So far as I know they're all separate articles. --Chapultepec 04:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, the comparison is misleading. This is not a competition between religions, but an editorial decision. In the cases of Allah and Yahweh, we have a lot of detailed information from primary and secondary sources that justifies seperate articles. In our case, we have enough for a nice article on Tengriism, but very little on top of that to put into a seperate article on Tengri (note how my specific question to that regard went unanswered). With the currently available information, the two articles are entirely redundant. --Latebird 07:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is that Tengriism is the religion, Tengri is the god. And so far as I know Tengri or Kök Tengri is the most superior god of this creed. But he is not the only one actually. In fact, he is just one of the gods within the related Pantheon. If you could look at the categories Altaic deities or Turkic mythology you would note that. So, all the related gods will have their own separate articles, but Tengri will not have the same chance, it seems a bit unjust to me. It's ok, with the currently available information, the two articles may seem redundant. But this situation is just for the time being, and in the future both of the articles will of course make progress and contain much abundant information than they currently have. So, I recommend that we keep the status quo and leave the articles separate. --Chapultepec 11:18, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please forget the idea of different topics competing against each other. Each individual topic will get a seperate article as soon as we have enough sourced material about it, but not earlier. Speculating about which will come first is pointless. Right now, we have two articles with content on the topic "Tengriism", one of them carrying the misleading title "Tengri". That's not an acceptable situation. Find independent and sourced information about Tengri (that that isn't also necessary to explain Tengriism), and I'll be the first to support an extra article. But until then, a redirect from Tengri to Tengriism is the only thing that makes sense. --Latebird 08:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I just read the article Tengri once more. There are of course attributions to Tengriism, but I didn't have the impression that I read an article on Tengriism. So, to my mind, the current information in the article Tengri is a good start on the way for it to be a separate article. The only thing the article needs is to make progress, to be improved, and that's all. I'll try to make advancements whenever I'll have time for that. --Chapultepec 11:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * [Oppose]. Tengrii is a figure, tengriism is a religion. You cannot join the two. Just because the name implies worship of tengri doesnt mean it needs to be a part of it. For example it would be like mixing zeus with greek mythology, that doesnt go either. So, it should this way. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 22:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course you can, even if it seems you don't want to (which is a valid opinion, of course). Zeus is a red herring though. There's a reason Greek mythology isn't called "Zeusism". --Latebird (talk) 06:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * [Oppose]. No merging! Seperate pages! You can probably find more on Tengri than you can on Ta'xet, who has his own page I might add. To merge two clearly seperate articles redefines wikipedia's article parameters, AND NOT FOR THE BETTER. Those are my thoughts-Tacoman2

 * Keep as separate articles. Carptrash (talk) 22:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

 * [Oppose]. Seperate it back, in my opinion. Tengriism was a religion which existed, the worship system etc, something more than just "Tengri" itself. And Tengri being God of it. The religion has important place in Turkic history. Nozdref (talk) 20:57, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Oppose, and I would say that's a pretty solid consensus. Ladybird might at one point have had a point, but the current article about Tengri is a solid little stub on Tengri and not on the faith. -LlywelynII (talk) 10:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I am sorry, since when have we, on Wikipedia, voted about having an article instead of, you know, writing the article? Of course there can be a "Tengriism" article if somebody can write it. So far, nobody has. There is no valid content here apart from what is already at Tengri. Write an article about "Tengriism" as a topic, and nobody is going to merge it anywhere. Just complaining that there "should" be such an article is not helpful. --dab (𒁳) 10:07, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

so, after some research, it turns out that this is a very intersting topic of a kind of Kyrgyz neopaganism which developed since 2005. There have been sources on it since 2006. There were no such sources in 2005.

I find it a bit disheartening that there are about eight people discussing and voting on this article, but apparently not a single one was willing to sit down and do the research necessary to actually write it. This is, of course, a problem endemic to Wikipedia. --dab (𒁳) 12:45, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone add Turkish and Mongolian spellings...?
Can anyone add Turkish and Mongolian spellings on the religion's name? For example: "Turkish: Tengircilik, Mongolian: ????"

belief of Hungarians?
I do not know why but I cannot edit this article and while ethnocide of the Mongol race has occurred it is alleged this September 2015 under the penal in Cold War Rome Statute 6, and Convention of Culture number 15, perhaps because of their lack of belief in the Creator, the Mongols tended to atheism but in the Yassa permit the worship of a supreme God. Tenger means Heaven, Ulemjiin Tenger Almighty Heaven and was so often used by violated Mongol women, that it became used in profane connections. The deities tended not to be worshipped by the mediaeval Mongols, Council followers, or the followers of Jamukha who were atheist anarchic revolutionaries. Genghis Khan in the Nuvs Tuvchoo Mongolyn decries the worship of idols of gold or silver and describes them more or less as such. The Mongols destroyed pagan temples, and all houses of worship in war. They had a Karaite, then described as Kereyit possibly being their ancestors influence and of the successor of the Rebellion of the Spades, the proletariat. They were an acronym for Mengshu Shiwei roughly Food Revolutionary Council, and a tribe of horse braves, and smiths, with Jewish Eshet Hayal lineage on several sections, mt DNA T, U, K, T-C, C-T, now killed, they are the descendants of Go-Maral, Beautiful Doe, the Pink Doe of Nahum, they pray to Almighty Heaven in difficulty of battle and in tiredness before the enemy again, they offer heads to Almighty Heaven as the Justice of man, earth and Almighty Heaven, and claim the Blue Wolf, symbol of the Jews as their ancestor, at least Genghis Khan did so. A possible still-life museum artillery powder discovery possible teenager or young pure Mongol man, who may have been brutally murdered after trying to protect my head from brain theft after I had asked the museum to restore him to life, having defended me so courageously on one occasion the whole railway station had to be repaved, but may have misbehaved with its hands, spoke of only food and being ready to fight for food anywhere and wherever for people anywhere and from anywhere, and not knowing of the council, may have been forbidden to speak of it, but was from the time of Khubilai Khan, may have been a teenager, he or another may have been for marriage, or true romantic Love for their time,and place. There was tolerance for all forms of worship of God as permitted in the Renovation known as the Yassa. Genghis Khan probably did not practice sacrifice of animal victims, but the wicked of the cities were regarded by some of his troops it seems as Heavenly just sacrifices but it was not thus admitted, anthropophagy was never practiced on the face of it, with orderly allegedly funerary but appearing sacrificial arrangement of all the dead and their heads, also as warrior pride, and clearance display for military fast and great distance advance. Hungarians (Magyars) are not Turks, but are also a Ural-Altaic or Turanian race, nor are they descended from them or the theorized Turko-Mongol orbit, so I'm removing reference to them as adherents of Tengriism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 17:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC) Bulgarians are not turks as well, and there is no prove Musala and Perperikon were holy places or etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 16:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC) Are you saying that Hungarians or Bulgarians were not Tengrists because they were not Turks? What is the relation between being a Turk and being a Tengrist? Race and religion are completely different things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 17:35, 25 October 2011 (UTC) The Magyars and the Bulgars were Tengriists too. the Bulgars had an turkic language before the adoption of the slavic language. They had also a runik writing. The Magyars had 2 runik writing sistems and it is surprising that the names of the Magyar tribes were of turkish origin. Also the old traditional hungarian names are nearly all of Türkish ore hunnic origin. It can be googled. Search for "List of hungarian names". In hungary survived a religion wich was called BÜÜN. In former times there were 9 books. After the christianisation and after burning of the old runik texts, these 9 books were handed down oraly from master to pupil. the 9 books have also old turkish names. The first is called Biru Gur. Wich meanes first bundle, becouse in former times it was carved on wooden slats and bound together. In this Religion the first and supreme God is YoTengrit (how surprising). Yotengrit becomes Tengrit and it divides him/herself in Gönüz the God of the Sky with the Sun (Gön) as his face (üz means Spirit in old hungarian) and Ukko the Goddes with the moon on her forehead, the same as Umai in Tengriism. These Gods can act separated and when acting together they are called Tengrit. See the book by Imre Máté : Yotengrit. There is a german version on Amazon Germany. By the way the Mongols are also not Turks, but they are Tengriists! — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 21:48, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

 * It is so sad that people can't accept their at least part of racial origins. Magyar in Turkish is "Macar" the word for cotton is in Hungarian is "pamut" in Turkish "pamuk". Highest percentage of the Bulgarians and Romanians have decended from Turkic race. They may have been converted to Christianity and do not want to associate with Turks who are predominantly Muslims. There are records which are left from Roman missionaries. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 15:58, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Flag of Turkey is a symbol of Tengriism?
The Flag of Turkey most likely is a symbol of Islam considering the caliphate which preceded it had the same flag. The Red Flag of the Red Flag of the 11th century Caucasian people´s movement. The Hong flag of the old revolution of the 13th century with the later il-Khans. The nomadism of Turkish or rather Ottoman ancestral female herders who moved at night by the light of the crescent moon and the star as propitiation for the safety of suckling mothers, and also symbol for Kokturk later Coquettes, Huns and Gouguettes, and the Mongols who use the sun and the crescent moon while the Huns use the sun and the moon.

<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 22:04, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

um, what caliphate? Have you considered reading Flag of Turkey? --dab (𒁳) 10:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Unreferenced additions
User:Tirgil34 is apparently trying to add material to this article. Is it really too much to ask that you present your own references, properly formatted? Or do you naturally expect other people to do your work for you?

Your unreferenced additions do not require any discussion. Just cite your sources.

Concerning the points which you did attribute to some reference: --dab (𒁳) 08:58, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=j6lx-20TKMsC&pg=PA351&dq=tengrianism&hl=en&ei=da-uTYXtE8b5sgbct5zYDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=tengrianism&f=false
 * this is a valid reference, and I will do your job of formatting it properly and giving a summary of what it is saying. Please try to do this on your own next time. The reference you found is valid, but it needs proper citation, and then proper discussion. Your reference isn't a naked url, it is this: Шаманизм монгольского мира как выражение тенгрианской эзотерической традиции Центральной Азии ("Shamanism in the Mongolian world as an expression of the Tengrianist Esoteric Traditions of Central Asia"), Центрально-азиатский шаманизм: философские, исторические, религиозные аспекты. Материалы международного симпозиума, 20-26 июня 1996 г., Ulan-Ude (1996); English language discussion in Andrei A. Znamenski, Shamanism in Siberia: Russian records of indigenous spirituality, Springer, 2003, ISBN<PHONE_NUMBER>407, 350-352. It was 20 minutes of work to figure this out properly. This would have been your work. You have no business revert-warring when instead you should just be pulling your own weight. See this diff for an example of how you could have handled your reference.
 * also called Nestorianism by Christian devices" A.S. Amanjolov, History of ancient Türkic Script, Almaty 2003, p.305
 * what does this even mean? It is not comprehensible. What is a "Christian device", and why would it use "Nestorianism" for "Tengriism"? You seem to use "Tengriism" in a very wide meaning of "Asian shamanism". This is not what this article is about. If you want to discuss Mongolian shamanism, please go to Mongolian shamanism. If you want to insist on the "Christian devices", please explain what it means, and what exactly is being said on p. 305 of the book you are citing.
 * actually, please don't bother to go into the Amanjolov thing any futher. This is just a cranky website that keeps being brought up by Turkish nationalists. It doesn't have any value as a WP:RS.

Massive Destruction of the Article by User Dbachmann
Be aware of Dbachmann's massive edits.--Tirgil34 (talk) 23:07, 7 March 2012 (CET)

If you would read my comments above, you would realize that I have salvaged the article by establishing that it is about something identifiable in the first place. If it wasn't, it would need to be merged or deleted.

You use "Tengrism" in the sense of Central Asian shamanism. If you want to insist that this is what the term means, you are required to present a merge proposal, because we can't have two articles about the same topic. --dab (𒁳) 11:06, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Both of your versions will stay. --Maikolaser (talk) 14:39, 16 March 2012 (CET)

 * Trying to depict Tengrianism as a political ideology is a pure non-sense. It is a belief which was once popular amonst Turks and Mongols. Granted it is heavily influenced with shamanism but it wasn't quite the exact same. The fact is that it certainly is not just some modern-day political ideology. Trying to entirely remove anything releated to it and replacing with it stuff that is view of single point of view is a direct break of NPOV and good faith. Nozdref (talk) 21:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * did you follow what I just said? If you want to argue that "Tengrism" means "Central Asian shamanism" please be constructive and state as much up front. Then propose a merger of "Tengrism" into the Central Asian shamanism article. If, on the other hand, you believe that "Tengrism" is a more narrow topic, make an effort to define it. As it turns out, the term has been used since the 1990s for exactly the movement the article is describing. It is not "just" a political ideology, it is a patriotic revival of interest in traditional culture. A patriotic revival of interest in traditional culture is not the same as simple traditional culture, it is a revival. This is why we don't just redirect Celtic Revival to Celts, right? For better or worse, "Tengrism" is the "Celtic Revival" of Central Asian shamanism.
 * Nozdref, if you care so much about "NPOV and good faith" show some of your own and explain this:
 * we have the article on Tengri, the historical deity
 * we have the article on Central Asian shamanism
 * then we have the article Tengrism.
 * now explain exactly what the topic to be treated under "Tengrism" is going to be as opposed to the topics of the other two articles. You will realize that you can basically argue for one of three options: (1) merge into "Tengri", (2) merge into "Central Asian shamanism" or (3) keep as a separate article on the recent revival. Please state which option you prefer, and why.

In my considered opinion, this "Tengrism" movement is of limited notability, but highly interesting for people interested in this kind of thing. It illustrates how former Soviet Republics in the 1990s began to show "modern" features in their ideological landscapes, reflecting western Neopaganism.

We could rename the article to "Tengrist revival" if there is so much strife about the term "Tengrism". The "Tengrism" page could then be a disambiguation page. I must point out that I am going far out of my way to accommodate in good faith what is in reality just the trolling of expatriate Turkish nationalists in Germany. The article on the "Tengrist revival" is not the same topic as the "Tengri" one, for the same reason as, say Germanic Neopaganism is a separate page from Germanic paganism. --dab (𒁳) 09:38, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Incoherent Sentences in the "Principles of Tengrism"
The bullets under this header are absolutely impossible to decipher. Can anyone with a stronger background in Tengrism sort them out and structure the sentences a little better?--DecayOfTheAngel (talk) 04:26, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

the article was just vandalized. Reverted to last sane version. "Tengrism" is a product of the 1990s. Yes, it is based on ancient Turkic religion. But then Christianity is based on the Dionysian cult, and you don't see the Christianity article keep going on about Dionysus and Tammuz and Horus and what have you. Stay on topic. I challenge people to find the term Tengrism (or Тенгрианство) in academic literature prior to the 1990s. Perhaps you can, then we could extend coverage back into the 1980s, or perhaps even the earlier 20th century? But here is a hint: google books link (1900-1990): zero results. google books link (1990-2012): 44 hits. This article is about a topic which generated 44 mentions in the literature surveyed at google books, all of them dating to after 1990. See also WP:NOTE. --dab (𒁳) 06:47, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

vandalized again. I guess I'll semiprotect this, but I do not have the capacity to babysit the page or go around blocking people (well, I do have the time to click the ban-button, but I don't have the time for the inevitable trolling drama at WP:ANI). --dab (𒁳) 12:52, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

after half a year of this, I think it is safe to assume "WP:AGF" has run out, and I have applied semiprotection. --dab (𒁳) 16:16, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Evangelizing
I enjoyed this article and found it informative in some ways. However, it really needs attention from an expert on Turko-Mongol culture and religion. Someone who, while being respectful, can write about Tengriism from a dispassionate perspective. I disagree this should be merged with another article. Tengriism is a good metonym for the entirety of the beliefs of the people of the Eurasian steppes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 00:45, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Inconsistent with article on Huns (I have posted this on the Hun article as well).
This article mentions the Huns as having spread Tengrism to Europe. The article on the Huns does not mention anything about Tengrism (not even a link to this article)and generally downplays claims to adequate sources for Hunnish religion. If there is sufficient evidence for these claims, the article on the Huns needs to be looked at. If there is not, this article needs serious reform. I am not knowledgeable on this subject, but the inconsistency is noticeable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 20:59, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have removed the bit about Huns since there is no ancient information at all about the religion of the European Huns. Evidence showed they may have had some gods, please read the chronicler Jordanes, been atheist and believed in a supreme God. I'd also support the suggestions above for a split between this article and a new one called "Tengrism revival" or something of the sort. And I hope that we can achieve a little more clarity of our definition of ancient Tengrism. I'd be happy with a narrow definition as the specific and documented worship of a sky god called Tengri, or a broad one as any superstition of any group that ever roamed the steppes, or anything in between. But this article is suffering from severe confusion between all these possibilities. Richard Keatinge (talk) 08:26, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

NOT the religion of Hungarians
Of course, race and religion are different things (as mentioned in a previous debate above). But there is only evidence that a SMALL portion of Hungarian clans in the early period interacted with this "religion" during exchanges with allied Khazar clans. You need a disclaimer about this, and certainly a disclaimer that because "Tengriism" is mostly a modern construct about early shamanist practices, Hungarian shamanist practices can easily be MISIDENTIFIED or subsumed under Tengriism. This is NOT the same thing. There is no mention of this distinction. Please fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 16:52, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Turkish and Mongol Shamanism in the Middle Ages
http://www.jstor.org/stable/1259544

09:14, 30 January 2014 (UTC) Spiritism, healing, and arts of mystery and knowledge, physical life restoration and prolongation, possible total loss in current 2015 suspected ethnocide of the Siberian, Ural-Altaic, Eastern European Mongol, Tatar, Bulgar, Volga German to save whom perhaps ethnocide of the Hunsof the European Union was favoured and other national minorites by Russians — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 08:10, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Seventh sky
A bulgarian idiom is cited about "being in the seventh sky". An identical idiom exists in Italian, but I doubt that any of the two descend from tengrist beliefs. The well known and popularized Divina Commedia by Dante Alighieri speaks clearly of the Seventh Sky as the highest one among which the blessed are subdivided. It was not an original idea by Dante; it rather came from the then dominant thomist cosmology. The tentative idea of a tengrist cosmology underneath european folklore is simply wrong, and makes more an interesting plot for a fantasy novel than an abstract for a scienfitic article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)

 * except it wasn't "cited". A lot of stuff keeps being added here without even the pretense of being based on verifiable sources. I have tried to purge the page of all that once more. Of course you are welcome to add things back provided you have a decent reference. --dab (𒁳) 14:38, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

–   Yes, it's much more likely having a judeo/christian background: <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 09:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I removed this nonsense then. Zezen (talk) 23:28, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Hungarians and Huns didn`t belive in Tengrism
there is no prove that huns believed in tengrism  — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2015 (UTC) I disagree you look at the name of your capital Budapest and the Hun leader Attilla who you claim to be one of your great leaders. He was originally from a Turkic race?

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2015

 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 03:59, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Tengrism and the Bible
Tengrism has strong correlations with the faith portrayed in Genesis, the first book of the Torah. Richard Hewitt researched the parallels between the pre-Islamic faith of ethnic Kyrgyz and the biblical patriarchs. Animal sacrifices, understanding of blood, butchering techniques, clean and unclean foods and customs, eastern orientation of paradise, societal structure, corresponding legends, similar ancestral names, references to God as father (теңириата or теңирата), etc. all have biblical or Hebraic similarities. Even an archaic Kyrgyz name for God, Egeder (Эгедер) is plural like Genesis' "Elohim".

Risbek Hewitt (talk) 19:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2015
Hello, very good article. I just wanted to change the part, where Kazakhstan is sound as part of the Central Asia. While in all official international documents the area is named: Kazakhstan and Central Asia. I will repieat: Kazakhstan is not the part of Central Asia. Also shall be noticed, that Part of Kazakstan (small one) is in Europe.Maira Zhunussova (talk) 14:03, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Beest regards, Maira

Maira Zhunussova (talk) 14:03, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Amortias (T)(C) 21:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2015
In Turkey, nazar are extensively used by almost everyone in their houses, in/on vehicles, baby clothes and even on buildings. Dropping lead onto a person's head (Kurşun dökme) is popular especially in eastern provinces. People observe traditions like hanging rags on trees; dropping water on someone's moving car wishing them to return very soon (like saying, "go like water, come like water"); knocking on wood three times with your right hand when an unwanted situation occurs, to prevent bad spirits from hearing about it;

same or similar ritual can be observed in Bulgaria as well

the importance of the number 40; wearing a red ribbon-headwrap (lohusa tacı) right after a woman gives birth; doing special ceremonies for beloved persons on the seventh (yedisi), fortieth (kırkı) and fifty-second (elli-ikisi) days after their death are some examples linked to Tengrism. An idiom in Turkish which is used when one feels ashamed of something — "Yerin yedi kat altına girdim" which means "I have gone into the seventh floor of the ground" — is linked to Tengrism. An idiom in Bulgarian has a positive meaning and is used when one feels euphoric and very glad: "на седмото небе съм" which means "I am in the seventh sky", but this in Bulgarian came not from tengrism but analogy is much luckily related to Christianity instead.

Kaloyan Atanasov (talk) 14:08, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  23:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Islamic/Abrahamic Traditions Mislabelled as Tengrist.
The article claims that the importance assigned to the number 40 in Turkish culture is due to Tengrist influence. These claims completely lack sources. Furthermore, the number40plays an important role in the mythology of Abrahamic religions, including Islam - the majority religion in Turkey today. Examples include it raining for 40 days and 40 nights during the Noah's Ark story. The practice of mourning for 40 days is actually an Islamic custom too (incorrectly stated asbeing Tengrist). I believe that it would be a good idea for these claims to be reviewed, and false claims removed. Jewish writing states Abraham to be Ab-hamon can mean father of the Mongols. He may have known some woman.

Suggest merge with Mongolian Shamanism
--Michael Tio (talk) 09:34, 5 December 2015 (UTC)I think this article and Mongolian shamanism should be merged since they are essentially the same thing. In fact, it is stated in Mongolian shamanism that Mongolian shamanism, more broadly called the Mongolian folk religion,[1] or occasionally Tengerism''',[note 2] refers to the animistic and shamanic ethnic religion that has been practiced in Mongolia and its surrounding areas (including Buryatia and Inner Mongolia) at least since the age of recorded history. In the earliest known stages it was intricately tied to all other aspects of social life and to the tribal organization of Mongolian society. Along the way, it has become influenced by and mingled with Buddhism. During the socialist years of the twentieth century it was heavily repressed and has since made a comeback.

Copyedit tag added
The current content is replete with claims such as: "Tengrism is often called as Nestorianism by Christian devices." with dubious non-RS references from Almaty uni etc. I have added copyedit tag then for starters. Zezen (talk) 23:30, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2017
The "Muslim opposition" part has nothing to do with this page. Because the story that Mahmud al-Kashgari tells is not about tengriist Turks but buddhist Turks. In that story, he tells what they did to idol of buddha as well. You'd read all if editor adds entire text, not just one part.

Regards. HiddenUserNameisTaken (talk) 18:46, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 19:32, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I'm not the best finding sources online. I'm not experienced about this Wikipedia thing, sorry. But like I said, the thing on this page isn't related to this page. HiddenUserNameisTaken (talk) 15:28, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2018
Add the lines in the Tengri topic: "In Asia as in many regions of the world the structure of the universe is in most cases concepted as having 3 floors - the sky, the earth and the hell, this axis is coming from an "hole", from this hole the gods are coming to earth, and the dead to the underground world, and as well the soul of a shaman can travel through these holes. Many altaic cultures see the sky as a tent, and when the gods want to see what is happening on earth, they open the tent."

This is not OR, it is from a confirmed source

Source: Histoire des croyances et des idees religieuses (Tome III) - Mircea Eliade, Tangri religion and the Structure of the world part, early pages. Electronic version of the source: http://www.downloadbooks.live/review/2228881600/books-s1s11671715s-1ss2s1e212891s-2s# Sicmundi (talk) 09:32, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:57, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Just an aside, I couldn't help noticing the similarity between "Tengri" or sky god and the Chinese word "Tien" meaning sky, heaven, or God. Then when I saw "tent of the sky" and "Many altaic cultures see the sky as a tent" this suggests an even more curious link - "tent" could be the deep root of all these words. A tent is also protective, which certainly is one of the properties of a deity whom we pray to. Also, the Chinese Tien is an impersonal heaven above, not a human figure like a Greek or Christian god, and this also goes with a tent which is inanimate. The Chinese have an expression "heaven has eyes" when you are lucky, this lines up with the notice about the God opening the tent to see how we are doing. JPLeonard (talk) 22:28, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

The selection of pictures for this article is a bit odd
From reading this article, I am under the impression that it is about a set of closely-related Central-Asian religions.

But the pictures for this article include a picture of a Shaman from Ecuador, a picture of a Shaman from an Amazonian tribe, a picture of a Lakota tipi from North America, as well as several pictures of traditional Indonesian religious practices.

I would imagine that the photos of traditional peoples and religions from North and South America are completely unrelated to Tengrism and should be removed. I do not know enough about the religion to know whether the pictures of Indonesian practices are relevant or not.

Can someone advise me on this? I am happy to remove the links to seemingly-unrelated pictures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mschures (talk • contribs) 02:28, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Another user has also had the same reaction, Doesn't know how to edit articles, and it appears this article is locked as well. This is very disrespectful to practicioners of these religions which are entirely unrelated as well as misinformational. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 08:47, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Tengrism and Shamanism
What is the difference between Tengrism and Shamanism. In this article it is mentioned that Tengrism is the official religion of the Mongol Empire. On the other hand in the article Mongol Empire it is mentioned that Shamanism is the official religion of the Mongol Empire. Isn't that confusing. It is very much contradictory. Please try to solve this problem.--Genghis khan2846 (talk) 16:01, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Neither Shamanism nor Tengrism is an offical religion. Shamanism is a type of a religious worldview. Religion itself is not well defined and some scholars asserted that the term religoin just works within an European/American context (that means for Protestantism, Orthodoxy and Catholicism). Otherwise, and that is how the term is used on Wikipedia, Religion is a worldview that constitutes supernatural elements, such as afterlife, hell/heaven, karma, spirits, demons and so on. . Therefore, non-dogmatic religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Tengrism and so on, are included in our understanding of Religion, here. Now, shamanism is a type of practise of one religion. For example, Islam can include shamanism (Alevism, Folk-Islam to give some examples). Tengrism is exclusively shamanistic. Islam can be dogmatic, Catholicism is dogmatic. These dogmatic religions are based on Revelations and Holy Scriptures, while the shamanistic practises are related to nature, personal experiences (or experiences from the entire tribe), and do not (strictly) adhere to scripture. Further, shamanism usually includes an animistic worldview, while religion is commonly monotheistic or polytheistic (with one or several superior deities, beyond the human world, while in Shamanism such deities act within the world of humans). Thus Tengrism (that is actually a term introduced by Western scholars of Orientalism to name the religious practises around Tengri), is a Shamanistic Religion. But since the religion itself would be called Tengrism, the other article should state "Tengrism" as official religion. Shamanism is not a religions as I said already, but way to practise one religion. European non-Christian-religions are also often "Shamanistic".--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 16:01, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Other religions sections
Why do we have several sections for different religions and not simpley one section as Tengirsm-syncretism with sub-sections. Especially, since we have "Nestorian"- "Buddhism" in relation to Tengirsm but "Muslim opposition" is kind of biased. Especially since Tengrism probably played a more significant role towards Islam than towards Christianiy or Buddhism. Furthermore, the "Nestorianism and Tengrism"-section seems to be midleading. " Turkish Nestorian manuscripts with the same rune-like characters as Old Turkic script have been found in the oasis of Turfan and the fortress of Miran" might be verified and true, but it does not indicate that Tengrism and Christianity are related. Tengrism often (as Turks usually did) took over religious myths from foreign religions. Turkish/Mongolian religion was never dogmatic but rather syncretic, thus just because some Turks (who once adhere to any major religion) were NEstorian (that is true) and wrote in their scripture, it does not mean that they were also Tengrists (as the section suggests). "It is unknown when and by whom the Bible was first translated into Turkish." yes, that is true but useless to know, since it is about Tengrism, not Nestorianism (TUrkish tribes were both, but still, it does not mean they are the same). "Most records in pre-Islamic Central Asia are written in the Old Turkic language", just useless or biased for the same reasons I stated already above. "Nestorian Christianity had followers among the Uighurs. In the Nestorian sites of Turfan, a fresco depicting Palm Sunday has been discovered", yes Uighurs were also Manichaeans, and abondan Tengrism in that case. THis section is rather about Turks in relation to Nestorian Christianity, only the first sentences merges them both. I suspect that there might be a misconception, based on the following "Tengrism has been called Nestorianism by Christian sources", claiming that Nestorianism and Tengrism might be the same. I only know Carpini, who once met a Turkish tribe in the late Medieval Age, who identified them as Nestorians. But this does not mean, that they were also Tengrists. Since I can not find the source, someone else would do me the favor and check it up and verify, which and that Christianity indeed identified Tengrism (and not just Turks) with Nestorian Christianity? Now to the second part: "Turkic worship of Tengri was mocked by the Muslim Turk Mahmud al-Kashgari, who wrote: "The infidels - may God destroy them!"[32][33] According to Kashgari, Muhammad assisted in a miraculous event where 700,000 Yabāqu infidels were defeated by 40,000 Muslims led by Arslān Tegīn; fires shot sparks at the Yabāqu from gates on a green mountain[34] (the Yabaqu were a Turkic people)" how is this relevant? We are an encyclopedia, not a New-paper. Tengrism practises can still be found among Islamic Turks and same Tengrist practises are held to be genuine Islamic. For example the Dervish-Dance shows clear Tengrism influences (the myth here about humans who evolve between heaven and earth, that is rather Tengristic than Islamic). If we do not find a solution, I would merge at least Nestorianism and Muslim-sections to "syncretic" or soemthing of the like and add a "Biased-Template" above it.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 16:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Uyghur
please change ((Uyghur))s to ((Uyghurs)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4500:1760:49d8:5717:ce10:a238 (talk)
 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks! ‑‑ El Hef  ( Meep? ) 16:46, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Possibly non reliable source in section: "Three world cosmology" (source is not about Tengrism)
The section "Three world cosmology" is sourced with this reference: http://members.tripod.com/Mongolian_Page/shaman.txt. I am not sure if this is a reliable source (see WP:RS). Also i doubt that this source can speak for Tengrism. It is written by a Shaman of the Golomt Organisation in 1997. This is about Mongolian shamanism. Not Tengrism. Also mongolian shamanism is strongly influenced by Tibetan Buddhism. Here a source about the Golomt Organisation and Shamanism in today Mongolia: https://www.academia.edu/1476928/Shamanism_in_Present-Day_Mongolia_and_a_Review_of_Some_Related_Books. I will probably delete the content. Someone can check it and included it in the article Mongolian shamanism.--AsadalEditor (talk) 18:08, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

 * According to the German and Turkic Wiki, the most sources for Tengrism are from this author. But first, I am curious how exactly we distinguish Tengrism from other shamanistic believe-systems among Turks/Mongols. There is, as far as I know, no clear border between Tengrism and other religions, since Tengrism itself is "invented" by Western scholars, to designate the shamanistic religion of the Turks/Mongols. It seems that some scholars (one of the few dealing with the religions of Turks) do not distingish between Shamanism and Tengrism. And we should remember, Turks/Mongols often assimilated their current belief with their new religion. Nevertheless, we should determine the importance of the three-world cosmology in non-Buddhism-Tengrism and one author is disputeable, especially when research is done in one specific region. Further it is tree, that at least on one ancient inscription, it is mentioned that human originated between earth and sky, no mentioned of an underworld. It could be, that the underworld only appeared under Manichaeism and Persian influences, otherwise the belief in an underworld was common among all people. Additionally,many sources attribute the belief in this three worlds clearly to Tengrism. (I personally also distinghuish between shamanism and tengrism, since we have no proof, that Tengrism was indeed shamanistic). But before deleting, I recommand to make a "needs more verification"-template first, and we search for more verfications (I will also search for past books about Tengrism/Shamanism, I might have missed and could be important now). What do you think? (and if we decide to remove this source, we remove the "please translate from German and Turkic Wiki- template as well, since they mainly use this source)--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 22:46, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Of course, this is not a secondary source and, in addition, sets forth the teachings of only one of the currents. However, you should not delete it until the moment when someone, at least briefly, presents a text based on scientific reliable sources (see added Bibliography for the article). DayakSibiriak (talk) 14:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

 * Shamanism is not religion of Turks. The word Shaman itself is of Tungusic origin. The word used for "shaman" (aka preacher) is "qam" in Turkic. Beshogur (talk) 14:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * A lot of work outlining the general characteristics of theology, cosmology, the doctrine of the soul in Tengrism. And now 2 sections of the article are based on 1 unpublished booklet of one Mongolian shamanistic organisation. To need remake it, I'm not ready for now. DayakSibiriak (talk) 01:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Although old, but may this section better be moved to Turkic mythology, as there is much about three-worlds related to Turkic mythology in general.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 17:23, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Typo under celestial
The celestial world has many similarities with the earth, but as undefiled by humams* <- should be humans Whimby (talk) 04:18, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Tengrist Monotheism
, The question is yes or nay to include the article in the Category:Monotheistic religions ? If Tengrism was defined as Monotheism only by supporters of the theory of premordial monotheism (Pattazoni and others), then apparently not. However, among other scholars, starting with the work of Ruox 1956, the number of supporters of the fact that certanly not at the grassroots level of the people, but at the level of the imperial state cult, especially by the 12th-13th centuries, Tengrism became a syncretic monotheistic religion. In this case, it is worth adding a category about monotheism, yes.

And about pantheism. After all, we cannot follow the Islamic criteria of monotheism, we must look more broadly (see Wiki Monotheism). From the point of view of Islam, the Christian Trinity is not monotheism. Now the Monotheistic religions are included in the named Wiki category: Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Baha'i, all branches of Hinduism (Vaishnavism, Shaivism and Shaktism), some new Japanese religions, and others. Here they are worth removing. So what? Leave only Islam and Judaism? Only the Arabs and Jews had original monotheism? Tengrism is much more worthy of inclusion in monotheism than Vaishnavism or Catholicism. DayakSibiriak (talk) 04:37, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Funny because Rastafari is listed as monotheism as wel.. This is showing the POV pushing by that user. Beshogur (talk) 10:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Seeing that you both assert with no reason, I would suggest an Islamic concept of monotheism rather proofs you biases agains tme in personal, since I nowhere assume an Islamic definition. I gave clear criteria, neither my source, nor the criteria mentioned in it, had been objected. It is getting personal.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 13:55, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

 * I did not said pantheism I said panentheism, that means it is an all encompassing deity+ more. I did not mentioned any Islamic criteria anywhere, I pointed out to the encyclopedia of philosophy. Monotheism is not simply "one god", this deity must also be omniscient, benevolent and act trascedent to the creation. Manichaeism also just vererates one God (Father of Greatness) (although throw lesser spirits, but these are rather saints, comparable to Mary in Catholicism), but it is still not monotheistic, since it rejects the omnipotence of its deity. Zorastrianism, Judaism, Islam, Bahai and Christian are Christian. About the Hindu concepts, I can not tell, I do not know enough. Manichaeism, Tengrism, Panentheistic and shamanistic ideas aren't monotheistic either. Also, Tengrism probably does not even met the criteria for a religion. It could be merely a movement among Neo-Tengrists. Also I can not follow you assertion that Tengrism is more worth to be included than Catholicism. Maybe from an Islamic point of view, yes, but Tawhid is not the definition of Monotheist. You guys are inverting the proposals. I am using the definition I wrote in the comment, there was no objection towards the source, only something about Islamic definitions I do not even care about. So the points remain: What makes Tengrism a religion? What makes Tengrism monotheistic, except that Wikipedia included Hinduism, and you guy think if Hinduism is included, Tengrism must be too, because Tengrism is (what it is not) even more monotheism than Catholicism? I do not see any point of yours, except "in the article, there are some hypothesis about primordial monotheism"?--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 13:55, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's not personally decide which religion is monotheism, and which is not based on one of the many definitions of monotheism (see broad definition in wikiarticle Monotheism, there Tengrism, some Hindu and others includ). We will decide on the basis of scientific sources about Tengrism. As far as I know, most authors writing about Tengrism as the state religion of the Turkic Khaganates and the Mongol Empire define it as Monotheistic, they are not only representatives of the theory of pramonotheism (Pattazzoni, Roux, Gumilyov, Doerfer, Tanyu, Rona-Tas, Bira and others)—Roux is the largest specialist in tengrism in the West, Bira – in Mongolia. Currently, the view that this was only state shamanism is shared by a minority of scholars. Therefore, based on secondary sources, we can not only include the article in this category, but also add about monotheism to the definition of Tengrism at the beginning of the article. It's not my opinion, only sources. DayakSibiriak (talk) 01:10, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Offer for the participant VenusFeuerFalle. In the preamble of the article Monotheism, there is a division into exclusive and inclusive monotheism in the broad sense of the word, which includes Tengrism. And the category for all monotheistic religions is made one. You can also create subcategories within the category: Exclusive monotheistic religions (e.g., only Abrahamic religions) and Inclusive monotheistic religions (a number of other religions, according to the sources). DayakSibiriak (talk) 04:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

 * How does "Monotheism is the belief in one god.[1][2][3][4] A narrower definition of monotheism is the belief in the existence of only one god that created the world, is all-powerful and intervenes in the world." apply to Tengrism? I only know about the exact opposite, that most scholars reject the idea of Tengrism as Monotheism. Also Wikipedia can not used as source for Wikipedia. So just please provide some sources stating that Tengrism is indeed monotheistic, not based on hypothesis (such as Urmonotheismus), but on Tengrism and religion itself.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 19:13, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Here some scholars who are not representatives of the theory of premordial monotheism, but who affirm the monotheism of Tengrism:

Jean-Paul Roux, the largest specialist in tengrism in the West, wrote: that this was a strong idea of Tengrism of the Turks and Mongols: “As there is only one God in heaven, there can only be one ruler on earth ..." Vol. 149 (149-1), pp. 49–82; Vol. 149 (149-2), pp. 197–230; Vol. 150 (150-1), pp. 27–54; Vol. 150 (150-2), pp. 173–212.

Auezkhan Kodar (2009) TENGRIISM IN CONTEXT OF MONOTHEISM "At the imperial level tengriism had monotheistic character."

S. Bira, Doctor in history, academician of the Mongolian Academy of Sciences, in a collection of his articles written during the years of communist rule in Mongolia, believes that by the 12th century, Tengrism became a monotheistic religion.

Gerhard Doerfer, Turkologist in his Türkische und mongolische Elemente im Neupersischen (1963–75): Tengrism is one of first monotheistic religions.

R. Meserve, Religions in the central Asian environment. In: History of Civilizations of Central Asia, Vol. 4, The age of achievement: A.D. 750 to the end of the fifteenth century, Part Two: The achievements, p. 68: "[...] The 'imperial' religion was more monotheistic, centred around the all-powerful god Tengri, the sky god."

Lev Gumilyov and others scholars... DayakSibiriak (talk) 00:41, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

 * Thank you very much, this should suffice. Could someone add some of the sources into the article? When the monotheism in Tengrism will be evident from the article itself. Currently, it seems only marginal support is mentioned. It is rather unlikely, I can do it myself, I will not even have the time to check the broader context or even integrate it. Unfortunately, since the sourcces look really interesting.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 13:36, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. I thank for the fruitful cooperation as well. Please check the style of my edits in the article and, of course, additions are possible. From sources it is not yet clear how original this state monotheism was, and how much it was influenced by Zoroastrianism, Islam, etc. DayakSibiriak (talk) 02:17, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Earth Demons
Under beliefs, gods the groups of 77 deities has been translated as "earth-demons". No cited sources support this translation. Instead the 77 deities are translated as "earth-mothers" in the source for this section and "earth-spirits" in other cited sources. Demon has a negative connotation and implies that these deities are terrifying and evil. No sources and practitioners in Mongolia and Russia do nowhere see the 77 deities this way.

Can someone provide evidence for the claim that the 77 deities are considered demons in other tengrist movements? Kardoen (talk) 16:08, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Prophets
The article first says that Tengrism cannot have Prophets, and then quotes a source that talks about Teb Tengri (meaning Prophet of God). --ExperiencedArticleFixer (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:09, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Tengrist temple Dom Archy in Yakutsk, Yakutia.jpg

Proposal for edit request
Hello there. The first step on WP:EDITREQUEST told me to create an consensus on this talk page. I would like to propose to add an part at the intro where it includes "Tungusic" because they are related to Turks and Mongols in the stricter sense. Furthermore, this page here states that Tungusic peoples follow various religions, including but not limited to shamanism. This means they may also practice Tengrism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Baha'i, etc. Any consensus? 2601:204:E600:D60:CC9:2C8E:9624:52C8 (talk) 01:43, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Is there evidence provided by WP:RS that they worshipped Tengri or is their form of shamanism identified with Tengrism? VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 15:21, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As I have stated, there is an adversarial source of information that they worshipped Tengrism in this page here. It does say "Various", which may mean that the Tungusic people may also worship Tengrism. 2601:204:E600:D60:5C52:645F:6760:82C9 (talk) 18:45, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, this page states it is a variety of Shamanism. 2601:204:E600:D60:ACF0:705D:52B6:90D2 (talk) 16:32, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request 31/10/2023
Remove the link to Native American Religions in the See Also section, as these two religions hacve nothing to do with each other. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 19:58, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Mvqr (talk) 13:11, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Last sentence of section "Tengrism and Christianity" needs to be made more clear
The last sentence of the section on Tengrism and Christianity needs to be restated (one way or another). This sentence states that "... it is clear from a letter by Güyük Khan, sent to the Pope, that the Mongols won't convert to Christianity, because they wouldn't obey the word of Möngke Tengri (Eternal God)." I think this statement is not clear and is very confusing. The most natural interpretation of this statement is that the "word of Möngke Tengri" supports the Mongols conversion to Christianity but the Mongols refuse to convert to Christianity because they refuse to obey the "word of Möngke Tengri". But after carefully reading this article it seems to me that this can't be correct, since (presumably) the Mongols of that historical period were committed to obey the "word of Möngke Tengri". If this is correct then this sentence should be changed to something like "the Mongols won't convert to Christianity, because doing so would mean that they wouldn't be obey ing the word of Möngke Tengri (Eternal God)." However, since I am not sure about this I didn't want to try to make these changes myself. But I hope that someone who is more knowledgeable than I am about this topic will let me know if my analysis is correct and, if it is, that they will make these changes (or some similar changes) to make the meaning of this sentence clear. Radphilosophe1 (talk) 00:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2024
Under Tengrism and Islam: First sentence first paragraph: "fixiated" is not a word; change to "fixed" or "set" First sentence third paragraph: "did not existed" change to "did not exist" <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 00:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Jamedeus (talk) 00:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tengrism


text:
Ross Branch (railway line)

The Ross Branch, officially known as the Hokitika Line since 2011, and previously as the Hokitika Industrial Line, is a branch line railway that forms part of New Zealand's national rail network. It is located in the Westland District of the South Island's West Coast region and opened to Hokitika in 1893. A further extension to Ross operated from 1909 until 1980.

Construction
The first line opened in the region was a bush tramway built to a gauge of 1,219mm (4 ft). It ran from Greymouth south to Paroa and opened in 1867. Ten years later, an extension inland to Kumara was opened, with the Taramakau River crossed by a cage suspended from a wire. Around this time, plans were formulated to replace the tramway with a railway and link Greymouth and Hokitika. Work began in 1879, but the economic conditions of the Long Depression brought construction to a halt the next year with only 5 km of track laid. Furthermore, the residents of Kumara, led by future Prime Minister Richard Seddon, were indignant that the railway was going to take a more coastal route than the tramway and thus bypass their town. In 1886, work restarted, and the continued attempts from Kumara residents to have the line's route changed failed to force an alteration to the plans. Work progressed steadily over the next few years, and on 18 December 1893, the complete line from Hokitika to Greymouth opened.

To the south of Hokitika was a thickly wooded country, and with the prospect of significant logging traffic, surveys for an extension of the railway were undertaken. In 1901, the government approved the construction of the extension, and preliminary work was well underway by August 1902. The first section, from Hokitika to Ruatapu, was opened on 9 November 1906, and the full line to Ross was completed on 1 April 1909.

Further expansion
Even before the line had been built, it was intended to be part of a main-trunk line from Nelson to Dunedin. This would involve linking Ross to the Otago Central Railway (which at the time terminated in Omakau) via the Haast Pass and Wānaka, and this proposal was viewed favourably by Richard Seddon during his Prime Ministership in the early 20th century as a tourist route.

Local demand for expansion of the line further south to Waitaha saw authorisation made for an extension of the line from Ross to the south-side of the Mikonui River however, in spite of a public pressure the earmarked funds were insufficient to construct the bridge and funding lapsed.

Despite the failure of the railway to progress beyond Ross, a number of bush tramways fanned out from the railway to provide more convenient access to sawmills and other industrial activity. The most notable of these was the one owned by Stuart and Chapman Ltd, which extended south from Ross for about 20 km to the Lake Ianthe area.

Stations
The following stations are or were located on the Ross Branch (in brackets is the distance from Greymouth):

 * Elmer Lane (1 km)
 * Wharemoa (2.25 km), also known as Karoro
 * Caltex private siding (3.03 km)
 * Warburton Street (3.58 km) - just south of the station was an NZR siding to a shingle deposit
 * South Beach (5.71 km), also known as Nelson Creek; junction with Stratford, Blair & Co. tramway
 * Keith Road (7 km)
 * Paroa (8.51 km)
 * Gladstone (10.65 km), junction with Ogilvie & Co. tramway from 1910 to approximately 1959
 * Camerons (13.26 km), junction with New River Gold Dredging Co. tramway
 * Kumara (17.38 km)
 * Chesterfield (22.91 km)
 * Awatuna (25.83 km), junction with Awatuna Sawmilling Co. tramway
 * Arahura (30.75 km)
 * Kaihinui (32.7 km)
 * Houhou (34.87 km), also spelt Hoho, junction with tramways of Baxter Bros. and J. C. Malfroy & Co.
 * Seaview (36.55 km)
 * Hokitika (38.45 km), private 1.4 km siding to Westland Milk Products factory
 * Takutai (41.47 km), junction with Perry, Hegan & Co. tramway
 * Mananui (45.49 km), junction with McCallum & Co. tramway
 * Lake Mahinapua (48.45 km)
 * Ruatapu (49.86 km), junction with Butler Bros. tramway from 1906 to 1958
 * Papakamai (?? km)
 * Ross (61.43 km), junction with Stuart & Chapman Ltd tramway from 1919 until 1959
 * End of rails (61.88 km)

All private tramways that had junctions with the Ross Branch were closed by the end of the 1960s.

Operation
Although sometimes considered to be part of the Midland Line, the Ross Branch was almost wholly operated as a separate route from Greymouth. The 1906 timetable showed 2 or 3 passenger trains a day. Locomotive depots were established in both Ross and Hokitika, and when the Otira Tunnel linking the West Coast to Canterbury opened in 1923, the section to Hokitika began to increase in importance. Carriages from the Christchurch-Greymouth express were attached to mixed trains and conveyed to Hokitika while the extension to Ross operated more like a local line with two mixed trains daily. The introduction of small Leyland diesel railbuses in August 1936 to convey copies of the Christchurch Press newspaper to the West Coast led to the establishment of a direct service between Christchurch and Hokitika, as well as local services between Hokitika and Greymouth and briefly Reefton. By the early 1940s, the Vulcan railcars had replaced the Leylands and they ran all the way through from Christchurch to Ross, operating twice daily, with a Greymouth-Hokitika return service at mid-day, Monday to Friday. In 1955, the 88 seater railcars entered service in New Zealand, and on 20 February 1956, they began operating the services from Christchurch to Ross via Greymouth, significantly reducing the use of the Vulcans. They were augmented by two daily mixed trains to Ross, and these services lasted until 11 September 1967. The railcars operated for a few years more, but as of 9 October 1972, they ceased to run past Greymouth, removing the final passenger service on the line.

In the early years of the line, timber was the dominant traffic from Ross, and in the 1920s, there was some pressure to operate NZR rolling stock on the Stuart and Chapman Ltd tramway, but this came to nothing and the tramway used private rolling stock until its closure in 1959. As the forests were felled, they were not replaced, and agriculture grew in importance, with agricultural lime and fertiliser railed in and livestock railed out; Ross served as the loading point for cattle driven up from southern Westland. By the 1970s, the line beyond Hokitika was operating uneconomically, and closure came in 1980. The combined road/rail bridge south of Hokitika, known as the "longest xylophone in the world" in New Zealand railfan jargon due to the rattling its planks made, required urgent repairs but it was decided that the cost outweighed the benefits due to the insignificance of the line. Road traffic was diverted to another bridge upstream and the line from Hokitika to Ross closed on 24 November 1980. This made the closure of the Ross section somewhat remarkable as its passenger service had ceased only eight years earlier; most rural New Zealand branches lost their passenger service at least two or three decades before the entire line was closed.

Presently every weekday a freight train operates from Greymouth to Hokitika in the morning and returns in the evening. It takes fifty minutes to run each way, operates only when required between June and August, and no trains run on weekends. The branch's primary customer is the Westland Milk Products plant, based in Hokitika, and trains are typically operated by diesel locomotives of the DC and DX classes. In the days of steam locomotives, members of the A and AB had been based in Ross, and when the line was dieselised in May 1969, DJ class diesels became the primary motive power until the arrival of the DBRs and DCs, though for a few years in the 1970s, all trains had to be operated by DSC class shunter locomotives before the Taramakau River bridge was repaired and upgraded. The bridge closed to road traffic on Sunday 22 July 2018, when a $25m road bridge opened.

Hokitika-Ross section today
A few notable bridges, without rails, still stand on the route to Ross, including an impressive truss bridge over the Totara River just north of Ross itself and a smaller truss bridge over the Mahinapua Creek 5 km south of Hokitika that is now protected by the New Zealand Department of Conservation. The route between Ruatapu and Ross is largely out of sight from the road, but can be driven for much of its length and is used as an accessway by some locals. From Hokitika to Ruatapu, the railway's formation is readily apparent as it is often near the road, and the road has even been diverted to use portions of it. Little else remains of the railway due to the passage of time and influence of human and natural activity, but at the site of Ross's yard, some twisted rail and a loading bank remain. In March 2010 work was started on clearing the Ruatapa - Ross section for use by cyclists. However, the long-term future of this is somewhat in doubt due to gold prospecting in the area. A number of bridges still exist in this section and are being refurbished as part of the cycle track. The West Coast Wilderness Trail from Hokitika to Ross, which incorporates the former railway route from Ruatapu south, opened on 24 October 2015.

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ross Branch (railway line)


text:
1935 Kansas Jayhawks football team

The 1935 Kansas Jayhawks football team represented the University of Kansas in the Big Six Conference during the 1935 college football season. In their fourth season under head coach Adrian Lindsey, the Jayhawks compiled a 4–4–1 record (2–2–1 against conference opponents), finished in third place in the conference, and were outscored by opponents by a combined total of 118 to 102. They played their home games at Memorial Stadium in Lawrence, Kansas. John Peterson was the team captain.

title: 1935 Kansas Jayhawks football team


text:
Template:Did you know nominations/Bar-tailed cuckoo-dove

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:28, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Bar-tailed cuckoo-dove

 * ... that the bar-tailed cuckoo-dove is differentiated from other sympatric pigeons other than cuckoo-doves? Source:
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ida Waugh and Template:Did you know nominations/Joan Carroll (soprano)

5x expanded by Adityavagarwal (talk). Self-nominated at 03:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC).

 * Symbol confirmed.svg QPQ done, created, in time, expanded 5-fold, hook is interesting, source checks out, no copyvio issues, within policy. Good to go! (EDIT: Clumsy me didn't see the post right above!) Futurist110 (talk) 04:37, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks Fitindia and Futurist110! Since the other article is expanded too, how about ALT1 (more interesting)? Provided one more QPQ for it!

 * ALT1 ... that the bar-tailed cuckoo-dove is similar to the Mackinlay's cuckoo-dove, although they have some differences? Source:
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Adityavagarwal ALT1 looks good and QPQ for Mackinlay's cuckoo-dove is done it has been 5x expanded in the last ten days, It is sourced, neutral and plagiarism free.  FITINDIA   13:51, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks a ton, User:Fitindia! Adityavagarwal (talk) 13:57, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg The ALT1 hook won't do because it is too obvious. The articles also need attention, the Mackinlay's cuckoo-dove article mentions the "black-billed cuckoo-dove (Macropygia nigrirostris)" which is not correct, and the text has not been read through carefully enough so there are errors like "breast feathers do not never bifurcate". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:34, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg I have struck ALT1 per above, and also because it is not interesting. The original hook wasn't interesting either—"is differentiated" without interesting detail is a "well, of course it is" since if it wasn't differentiated, it wouldn't be a different species— and I'm troubled that it was approved by both initial reviewers. A new hook will be needed, in addition to fixes to address the issues raised by Cwmhiraeth. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:38, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

 * ALT2 - "...that the bar-tailed cuckoo-dove is similar to the Mackinlay's cuckoo-dove, but is slightly larger in size? Source:
 * Cwmhiraeth and BlueMoonset Completely missed it! How about this hook? If I provide more differences, the hook size would grow too, so mentioning one difference for now. If you feel that more should be provided, I would add more! Actually, the bar-tailed cuckoo-dove is same as the black-billed cuckoo-dove; I was confused too earlier, but then on searching, I found they were the same. If have anyways replaced the name with former one in the article and done some ce on it. Adityavagarwal (talk) 04:22, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * How about

 * ALT3 - ... that the Mackinlay's cuckoo-dove can be distinguished from the bar-tailed cuckoo-dove by the dark spotting on the breast of the former caused by bifurcating feathers? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:03, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks great, Cwmhiraeth! Adityavagarwal (talk) 09:27, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's see if Fitindia is able to approve it. I try not to suggest hooks for other people's nominations because it means that I am then precluded from promoting them. However, someone will get around to promoting this one to prep in the end ... Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:36, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg am fine with ALT3.   FITINDIA   10:38, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

authors: ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ


text:
Talk:Guitar/Intervals and Power Chords

Umm...you sure a "double-stop" can be played on a piano? --Furrykef 07:07, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yup - if a double stop is simply playing two notes at the same time, you just push down two keys on the piano.... hey presto, a double stop! Dave

 * Double stopping doesn't just mean two notes played at the same time. On guitar, double stopping means holding down (stopping) two strings onto the fretboard at any position (except open) in order to produce a 'dyad' or 'interval' when the strings are played. Double stopping doesn't apply to piano playing.

 * And if it did just mean playing two notes at the same time, it certainly wouldn't be restricted to string instruments (xylophones, bagpipes, pipe organs, and harmonicas are just a few non-string instruments that can play more than one note at a time). <IP_ADDRESS> 04:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I would agree here. Double stopping only happens when ONE string is stopped in two placed, if done correctly, you amplify certain harmonics and produce a two-tone effect.  This is not the same as just plucking two strings at once. (stestagg) <IP_ADDRESS> 21:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

a pussle
Make of these a pussle. Delete the name of the songs and set the solution of the discusions-page. Maby you will find some new one, and we (the german wikibooks-team) will borrow them --Mjchael 22:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

E    F     F#    G     G#    A     Bb    H     C     C#   D    D#   E e|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-||--- -|| h|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-||--- -|| G|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-||--- -|| D|--2--|--3--|--4--|--5--|--6--|--7--|--8--|--9--|-10--|-11--|-12-|-13 -|-14-| A|--2--|--3--|--4--|--5--|--6--|--7--|--8--|--9--|-10--|-11--|-12-|-13 -|-14-| E|--0--|--1--|--2--|--3--|--4--|--5--|--6--|--7--|--8--|--9--|-10-|-11 -|-12-|

A    Bb    H     C     C#    D     D#    E     F    F#    G    G#   A e|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-||--- -|| h|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-||--- -|| G|--2--|--3--|--4--|--5--|--6--|--7--|--8--|--9--|-10--|-11--|-12-|-13 -|-14-| D|--2--|--3--|--4--|--5--|--6--|--7--|--8--|--9--|-10--|-11--|-12-|-13 -|-14-| A|--0--|--1--|--2--|--3--|--4--|--5--|--6--|--7--|--8--|--9--|-10-|-11 -|-12-| E|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-||--- -||

solution

 * Song 1 = Wild Thing
 * //: E - E - - A A A B - B- - A A A :// (0 5 7 )

 * Song 2 = Smoke on the Water
 * //: G Bb C - G Bb Db C - ; G Bb C - Bb G :// (3 1 3 - 3 1 4 3 ...)

 * Song 3 = With or Without you
 * //: C C C C C C C C G G G G G G G G A A A A A A A A F F F F F F F F :// (3 ... 3... 5... 1... )
 * or: You're Beautiful (James Blunt);
 * so lonley (police) ;
 * let it be (beatles)

 * Song 4 = Carlifornia Dreaming (the Mama & the Papas)
 * //: A A G G F F G G E4 E4 E4 E4 E E E E :// (the E is a simple chord ( 5 5 3 1 1 3 3 0 0...)

 * Song 5 = Sympathie for the Devel oder: let me entertaint you
 * //: D D D D D D D D | C C C C C C C C | G G G G G G G G | C C C C C C C C :// (5.... 3 .....)

 * Song 6 = Child in time (Deep Purple)
 * //: G G A - | G G A - | F F G - | G G A - :// (3 3 5........... 1 1 3...)

 * Song 7 = Hit the Road Jack
 * //: A | G | F | E :// (5 3 1 0 ) (one of 30 possible songs)
 * Ebenso möglich: Year 2525 oder Dicke (Westernhagen) (German)

 * Song 8 = She's f*** hates me
 * //: E E E E | A A A A | F# F# F# F# | H H H H :// ( 0 0 2 2 ) oder (0 5 2 7)

 * Song 9 = boulevard of broken dreams
 * //: E G D A :// ... //: C G D E :// ... B7

 * Song 10 = Westerland (die Ärzte) (German)
 * //: G / G / G /D :// (2x)
 * C / C / G / C / C / D / D
 * //: G D E C :// 3x
 * A D G G

 * Song 11 = Hey Joe (Jimi Hendrix)
 * //: C | G | D | A | E-A -E :// ( 3 3 5 5 0)

 * Song 12 = Skandal im Sperrbezirk (German)
 * //: D D C C G G A A :// (5 3 3 5)

 * Song 13 = I'm Free (The Who)
 * //: E E - G G - A A - A A A - F# F# - A A - B B - B B B :// (0..3..0...2..0..2..) or (0..3..5....2..5..7....)

 * Song 14 = Proud Mary
 * C C C A --- (2x) C C C A G F F F G G | (333 5 | 333 5 3 111 33)
 * D --- A B (A) G | D --- G D (557(5)3|5---35)

 * Song 15 = Locomotive Breath - JETHRO TULL
 * E G D (5x) B D
 * E G D (5x) G A --- B-

 * Song 16 = VENUS - Shocking Blue u.a.m.
 * B = Intro
 * B | E A (8x) A E (4x) C H

 * Song 17 = "You really got me"
 * only intro
 * F | GGFG --- G | GGFG --- F (1 3313-3| 3313-3)

 * Song 18 =( Sittin' On ) The Dock Of The Bay - Otis Redding
 * (1 chord = 1x 4/4)
 * G H C A (2x) G E G E G A G E (3 2 3 0 - 3 0 3 0 3 5 3 0 )
 * C A (3 0) can be played as C B Bb A ( 3 2 1 0 )

 * Song 19 = Bad Moon rising
 * DD AG D-- (4x) G D A G D (2x)

 * Song 20 = Narcotic (Liquido)
 * original one Fred higher
 * C C C C | D D D D | F F F F | C C C G (3 5 1 3,3)

 * Song 31 = Smells like teen spirit (Nirvana)
 * F F Bb Bb Ab Ab Db Db (1 1 1 1 4 4 4 4)

title: Talk:Guitar/Intervals and Power Chords


text:
puli

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) One of a breed of Hungarian sheepdog with a distinctive thick, corded coat.

Translations

 * Czech: puli
 * Hebrew: פולי
 * Hungarian:
 * Irish: púilí Ungárach

Etymology
.

Verb

 * 1)  to return home, to go home; to take something home

Etymology 1
Shortened from, commonly used in the past as surrogate alcohol.

Noun

 * 1) drunkard, sot one who is badly addicted with alcohol, to the point where the person is completely dependent on it

Etymology 2
From.

Noun

 * 1) puli

Etymology
. Perhaps a variant of due to the slight similarity of their curly coat.

Noun

 * 1) Puli a Hungarian sheepdog with a distinctive thick, corded coat

Noun

 * 1)  a kind of rice cracker.

Usage notes
See pulă and pule.

title: puli


text:
Talk:Nora Zehetner

American Pie 2?
What role did she play there?

Septuplets
Is the Septuplets TV series listed the one that Fox announced? If so, then, since Fox cancelled it without airing any episodes, should it still be included in her filmography? -- That Don Guy (talk) 21:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nora Zehetner


text:
Talk:Mahanay Island

Contested deletion
This article should not be speedy deleted as lacking sufficient context to identify its subject, because... it follows the translation request guidelines at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation#Requesting_a_translation_from_a_foreign_language_to_English --Dlmcdonald (talk) 17:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mahanay Island


text:
Ada Programming/Operators

Standard operators
Ada allows operator overloading for all standard operators and so the following summaries can only describe the suggested standard operations for each operator. It is quite possible to misuse any standard operator to perform something unusual.

Each operator is either a keyword or a delimiter—hence all operator pages are redirects to the appropriate keyword or delimiter.

Operators have arguments which in the RM are called Left and Right for binary operators, Right for unary operators (indicating the position with respect to the operator symbol).

The list is sorted from lowest precedence to highest precedence.

Logical operators

 * and : and $$x \land y$$, (also keyword and)
 * or : or $$x \lor y$$, (also keyword or)
 * xor : exclusive or $$(x \land \bar{y}) \lor (\bar{x} \land y)$$, (also keyword xor)

Relational operators

 * /= : Not Equal $$x \ne y$$, (also special character /=)
 * = : Equal $$x = y$$, (also special character =)
 * < : Less than $$x : Greater than ($$x > y$$), (also special character >)
 * >= : Greater than or equal to ($$x \ge y$$), (also special character >=)

Binary adding operators

 * + : Add $$x + y$$, (also special character +)
 * - : Subtract $$x - y$$, (also special character -)
 * & : Concatenate, $$x$$ & $$ y$$, (also special character &)

Unary adding operators

 * + : Plus sign $$+x$$, (also special character +)
 * - : Minus sign $$-x$$, (also special character -)

Multiplying operator

 * * : Multiply, $$x \times y$$, (also special character *)
 * / : Divide $$x / y$$, (also special character /)
 * mod : modulus (also keyword mod)
 * rem : remainder (also keyword rem)

Highest precedence operator

 * ** : Power $$x^y$$, (also special character **)
 * not : logical not $$\lnot x$$, (also keyword not)
 * abs : absolute value $$|x|$$ (also keyword abs)

Short-circuit control forms
These are not operators and thus cannot be overloaded.

 * and then : e.g.
 * or else : e.g.

Membership tests
The Membership Tests also cannot be overloaded because they are not operators.

 * in : element of, $$var \in type$$, e.g. , (also keyword )
 * not in : not element of, $$var \notin type$$, e.g. , (also keywords  )

Range membership test
Today  Tuesday .. Thursday ...

Subtype membership test
Is_Non_Negative := X Natural;

Class membership test
Object Circle';

Range membership test
Today  Tuesday .. Thursday ...

Choice list membership test
Ada 2012 extended the membership tests to include the union (short-circuit or) of several range or value choices.

Today Monday .. Wednesday | Friday ...

Wikibook

 * Ada Programming

Ada Quality and Style Guide

|Operators

Programación en Ada/Operadores

title: Ada Programming/Operators


text:
Provincial Councils of Baltimore

The Provincial Councils of Baltimore were councils of Roman Catholic bishops that set the pattern for Catholic organisation in the United States. They took place in Baltimore. They were seen as having a unique importance for the Church in the United States, inasmuch as the earlier ones legislated for practically the whole territory of the Republic, and furnished moreover a norm for all the later Plenary Councils of Baltimore covering the whole country. This article touches upon only those parts of the canonical legislation which may seem in any way to individualize the discipline of the Church in the United States or depict the peculiar needs and difficulties of its nascent period.

First Provincial Council
The First Provincial Council was held in 1829 and was attended by the archbishop and four bishops. Its decrees refer to the enactments of two previous conventions. Bishop John Carroll's Diocesan Synod of 1791 decreed: (No. 3) The ceremonies of baptism need not be supplied for converted heretics who had been previously validly baptized. (No. 4) As a rule children may not receive Confirmation before the age of reason. (No. 5) The offerings of the faithful are to be divided into three parts: for the support of the pastor, the relief of the poor and the sustentation of the church. (No. 11) The faithful are to be warned that the absolution of priests not approved by the bishop is invalid.

(No. 15) None are to be married until they know the Christian Doctrine. Slaves need know only the principal truths, if more cannot be acquired. (No. 16) In mixed marriages the non-Catholic must promise before witnesses to bring up the offspring of the union as Catholics. (No. 17) Hymns and prayers in the vernacular (viz. English, not Latin) are to be encouraged at evening services. (No. 20) Catholics may work on days of obligation owing to the circumstances of place, but they must hear Mass if possible. (No. 23) The rich are to be warned that they sin grievously if, through their parsimony, pastors cannot be sustained and multiplied. (No. 24) When there is question of refusing Christian burial, the bishop must be consulted beforehand when possible.

The second series of enactments of the First Council referred to are the articles concerning ecclesiastical discipline sanctioned by the common consent of the Archbishop of Baltimore and the other American bishops in 1810. The main articles are: (No. 2) Regulars should not be withdrawn from pastoral work without the consent of the bishops, if their assistance be deemed a necessity to the existence or prosperity of their missions. (No. 3) The Douay version of the Bible is to be used. (No. 5) Baptism must be conferred in the church where possible. (No. 6) If no sponsor can be obtained, private baptism only is to be administered. (No. 9) The faithful are to be warned against improper theatres, dances and novels. (No. 10) Freemasons cannot be admitted to the sacraments. Besides ordering the publication of these decrees along with their own synodical enactments, the fathers of the First Provincial Council decreed: (No. 1) Priests should labour in any mission assigned to them by the bishops. (No. 5) Owing to the abuses of lay trustees all future churches should be consigned to the bishop when possible. (No. 6) Trustees cannot institute or dismiss a pastor. No ecclesiastical patronage exists in this country. (No. 10) Infants of non-Catholics may be baptized if their parents promise to give them a Catholic education, but the sponsor must be a Catholic. (No. 20) In administering the sacraments and in the burial service, Latin and not English must be employed. (No. 31) A ceremonial written in English is to be drawn up. (No. 34) Catholic schools should be erected.

At one of the sessions of this council several lawyers (among them Roger B. Taney, afterwards Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States) gave advice to the bishops on points of American law concerning property rights and ecclesiastical courts. In addition to their decrees, the bishops asked and obtained from Rome permission to use for adults the formula of infant baptism; to consecrate baptismal water with the form approved for the missionaries of Peru and to extend the time for fulfilling the paschal precept, i.e. from the first Sunday of Lent to Trinity Sunday.

Second Provincial Council
The Second Council, held in 1833, was attended by the archbishop and nine bishops. The main decrees were: (No. 3) A delimitation of the American dioceses. (No. 4) A method of selecting bishops, which a later Council (Prov. VII) modified. (No. 5) Recommending the entrusting to the Jesuits of the Indian missions in the West, as also (No. 6) the missions among former American slaves, repatriated in Liberia, West Africa, to the same fathers. (No. 8) Bishops are exhorted to erect ecclesiastical seminaries.

Third Provincial Council
The Third Council in 1837 was composed of the archbishop and eight bishops. Its decrees enacted: (No. 4) Ecclesiastical property is to be secured by the best means the civil law affords. (No. 6) Ecclesiastics should not bring ecclesiastical cases before the civil tribunals. (No. 7) Priests are prohibited from soliciting money outside their own parishes. (No. 8) Pastors are warned against permitting unsuitable music at Divine worship. (No. 9) The two days following Easter and Pentecost are to be days of obligation no longer. (No. 10) Wednesdays in Advent are not to be days of fast and abstinence.

Fourth Provincial Council
The Fourth Council in 1840 issued decrees signed by the archbishop and twelve bishops as follows: (No. 1) In mixed marriages no sacred rites or vestments are to be used. (No. 5) Temperance societies are recommended to the faithful. (No. 6) Pastors are to see that those frequenting public school do not use the Protestant version of the Bible or sing sectarian hymns and to employ their influence against the introduction of such practices into the public schools.

(No. 8) Bishops are to control ecclesiastical property and not permit priests to hold it in their own name. Among those attending this council was Charles Auguste Marie Joseph, Count of Forbin-Janson, the exiled Bishop of Nancy and Toul, France, to whom the fathers granted a right to a decisive vote. A letter of consolation was sent by the council to the persecuted bishops of Poland, and another of thanks to the moderators of the Leopold Institute of Vienna, Austria.

Fifth Provincial Council
In 1843, the Fifth Council was attended by the archbishop and sixteen bishops. Among its enactments were: (No. 2) Laymen may not deliver orations in churches. (No. 4) It is not expedient that the Tridentine decrees concerning clandestine matrimony be extended to places where they have not been already promulgated. (No. 5) Pastors must observe the law of residence. (No. 6) Priests may not borrow money for church uses without written permission of the bishop.

Sixth Provincial Council
The Sixth Council (the archbishop and twenty-two bishops attending) in 1846, decreed: (No. 1) that the Blessed Virgin Mary conceived without sin is chosen as the patron saint of the United States. (No. 2) Priests ordained titulo missionis may not enter a religious order without permission of their ordinaries. (No. 3) The canons concerning the proclaiming of the banns of matrimony are to be observed. At the request of the fathers, the Holy See sanctioned a formula to be used by the bishops in taking the oath at their consecration.

Seventh Provincial Council
In 1849 two archbishops and twenty-three bishops held the Seventh Council. The main decrees were: (No. 2) The Holy See is to be informed that the fathers think it opportune to define as a dogma the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary. (No. 3) A change in the election of bishops in introduced. (No. 5) Bishops are not to give an exeat at the request of a priest unless it be certain that another bishop will receive him. (No. 6) Priests are forbidden to assist at the marriages of those who have already had a ceremony performed by a Protestant minister, or who intend to have such ceremony performed.

(No. 7) A national council should be held in Baltimore in 1850, by Apostolic Authority. The fathers moreover petitioned the Holy See to raise the New Orleans, Cincinnati and New York City dioceses to Metropolitan dignity and to make a new limitation of the Provinces of Baltimore and St. Louis. They desired likewise that Baltimore should be declared the primatial see of the Republic. The pope granted the first part of the petition, but deferred acting on the question of primacy.

Eighth Provincial Council
The Eighth Council was assembled in 1855. The archbishop and seven bishops or their representatives attended it. This council enacted: (No. 1) The fathers joyfully receive the dogmatic decision of the pope defining the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary. (No. 2) Priests are warned that after August, 1857, adults must be baptized according to the regular formula for that service in the Roman Ritual and not according to that for infant baptism. (No. 4) No tax is to be demanded for dispensations from matrimonial impediments.

(No. 6) Bishops are exhorted to increase the number of their diocesan consultors to ten or twelve, but it will not be necessary to obtain the opinion of all of them, even on important matters, the counsel of three or four will suffice. On the death of the bishop, all the consultors shall send to the archbishop their written opinions as to an eligible successor for the vacant see. (No. 7) The various diocesan synods should determine on the best mode of providing for the proper support of the bishop. (No. 8) The fathers desire to see an American College erected in Rome. To the Acts of this council is appended a decree of the Holy See, sanctioning a mode of procedure in judicial causes of clerics.

Ninth Provincial Council
The Ninth Council in 1858 was attended by the archbishop and seven bishops. The main work of this synod consisted in drawing up petitions to the Holy See concerning a dispensation from abstinence on Saturdays; the conceding of certain honorary privileges to the Archbishop of Baltimore; the granting to the bishops the permission to allow the Blessed Sacrament to be kept in chapels of religious communities not subject to the law of enclosure. All of these petitions were granted by the Holy See.

That concerning the Archbishop of Baltimore granted to him, as ruler of the mother-church of the United States, an honorary pre-eminence, to consist in his taking precedence of any other archbishop in the country, without regard to promotion or consecration, and in his having the place of honour in all councils and conventions. The fathers also sent to Rome an inquiry as to the nature of the vows (solemn or simple) of religious women, especially of Visitation Nuns in the United States, an answer to which was deferred to a later time (1864).

The question was also discussed whether Archbishop Kenrick's version of the Bible should be approved for general use. It was finally decided to wait for Dr John Henry Newman's expected version, and then to determine along with the bishops of other English-speaking countries on one common version.

Tenth Provincial Council
In 1869, the Tenth Council enacted decrees that were signed by the archbishop, twelve bishops and one abbot. These decrees included: "* Bishops are exhorted to establish missions and schools for the Negroes of their dioceses.
 * Priests are to be appointed to aid the bishops in administering the temporal concerns of the diocese. They are also to supervise the spiritual and material affairs of religious women."

It should be remarked that the first seven provincial councils of Baltimore were practically, though not formally, plenary councils of the United States.

title: Provincial Councils of Baltimore


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/nasrmahrous.com

Links

 * nasrmahrous.com resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the domainredlist.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.

Users

 * Bebo106
 * User is whitelisted: User is in a trusted group rollbacker on some wikis

Additions

 * Displayed all 2 additions.


text:
Talk:Derek Daly

Untitled
For information regarding why I have changed the driver's participation in the 1980 Grand Prix of Canada and subsequently the alteration of starts, please see:

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Derek Daly. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090922235214/http://www.derekdalydesign.com:80/ to http://www.derekdalydesign.com/

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 21:21, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Derek Daly


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Talk:Kevin Davy

Untitled
I don't know Mr Davy, but was adding links to Diploma of Higher Education and made lots of terms on this page links where the people seemed significant. --Kylet 21:24, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kevin Davy


text:
Portal:Physical Sciences/Did you know

The Euler-Lagrange equation of classical mechanics was discovered during attempts to find a curve for which the time taken by a frictionless particle sliding down it under uniform gravity to its lowest point is independent of its initial starting point.

title: Portal:Physical Sciences/Did you know


text:
User:CheyenneSciacca

Cheyenne Sciacca Aka Cheyenne Wilson was born October 12.1971 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin to John Wilson and Therese (Orlikowski) Wilson. Sciacca is of Native American (Cherokee), Polish, German ,Scottish, and some Italian ancestry. Sciacca was Exotic Entertainer Of The year in 1994. Sciacca performed at various clubs around the United States such cities as San Diego, Milwaukee, and Las Vegas. She performed at nightclubs such as Pacers ,Nitelife Uptown, Airport Lounge, Spotlight, Heartbreakers, and the famous Crazy Horse 2 in Las Vegas. Sciacca also briefly worked in a brothel in Elko, Nevada in 1996 called Lucky Strike. Sciacca then later took up pharmacy, She became a Pharmacy Tech. from 1998 to 2002, In 2002 , Sciacca , took early retirement due to family and personal health issues. Sciacca was engaged 3 different times in her life ,however, was never married, and has no children. Sciacca lives in Las Vegas with her mother and her dog, Paco .CheyenneSciacca (talk) 19:42, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

title: User:CheyenneSciacca


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Wiktionary talk:Translations/Link to a PART of a foreign Wiktionary article

 * from Wiktionary talk:Translations Rod (A. Smith) 21:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

<<IP_ADDRESS> 16:47, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)>I'm a new foreign user, and I'm not sure this is the right place to ask questions, but I couldn't find any more appropriate place.

 * 1) How to make a link to a foreign Wiktionary entry ?

 * 2) It's frequent that an English word has several translations, according to circumstances, in another language. But each of these foreign words may also have different translations in English.

For instance, "to weigh" is usually translated by "peser" in French, but "to weigh anchor" is "lever l'ancre". "Lever" is to be translated in English usually as "to lift", but "lever la séance" is "to close the meeting", and "lever" is also a French noun: "un lever de soleil" is "a sunrise". In Cambridge Klett COMPACT dictionary, there are not less than 9 completely different English translations for "lever", plus some for "se lever" (and 6 different translation of "peser").

Of course, they may also be different translations of "lever" into many other languages than English, which will make "lever" entry very long.

What about the translations of "to do" and "faire" ? Have a look here: Translations of "to do" into French in a compact dictionary. When translating "to weigh anchor", I'd like to point to the relevant meaning in the should-be long "lever" article, not to refer the whole article.

How to refer a part of an article in Wiktionary ?

 * Of course you've chosen some of the most difficult words to translate. This is one big problem with machine translations.  You can't translate "I am hot" literally to "Je suis chaud[e]", when the intention is to say "J'ai chaud."  English will use the same construction for both meanings, and an English speaking person will understand the different meanings from the context.  "Weigh anchor" is highly idiomatic, and thus requires special explanation.  From here lever would take you to that article in this Wiktionary.  To see the term on the French Wiktionary go to fr:lever  Eclecticology 21:39, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 This example is not exceptional at all. Just open an English->other language, and then other language->English serious dictionary, and see the proportion of words with more than 2 meanings and translations. Such words are the large majority.


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Triton-class container ship

The Triton class is a series of five container ships built for Costamare and operated by Evergreen Marine. The ships have a maximum theoretical capacity of 14,424 TEU. The ships were built by Samsung Heavy Industries in South Korea.

title: Triton-class container ship


text:
User:Mcgarrygadgets/sandbox

Steve McGarry Entrepreneur and Inventor of the famous patented "Fun Risers." At age 24 Steve Founded his first e-commerce company McGarryGadGets. As Founder and CEO of McGarryGadGets he took online retail by storm partnering with various innovation and design companies around the world. Steve McGarry born April 21, 1988 in Raleigh North Carolina graduated from East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina in 2011 with a bachelors of science in economics and a minor in business administration. Claiming to be a serial entrepreneur he states "McGarryGadGets is just the first of many companies, there is much more to come in the near future."

title: User:Mcgarrygadgets/sandbox