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Nilo Hovey

Nilo W. Hovey (September 22, 1906 – March 14, 1986) was a clarinetist, composer, conductor, music educator, and author of many musical instrument method books.

Early life
Nilo Wellington Hovey was born in Iowa on September 22, 1906, to Leroy Dana and Lois Graham Hovey. Raised in Cedar Falls, Iowa, Hovey participated in the Cedar Falls Municipal Band, initially on saxophone, but eventually on most of the reed instruments, and attended Iowa State Teacher's College (now the University of Northern Iowa).

Career
During Hovey's tenure as Director of Instrumental Music in the public schools of Hammond, Indiana (1926–44), he wrote his first instructional book, a method book for clarinet titled Rubank Elementary Method: Clarinet.

Among the bands he directed in Hammond were the Hammond Technical High School band and the George Rogers Clark High School band, both of which received accolades under his direction.

In 1944, Mr. Hovey began a position as director of the Concert Band and Chairman of the Music Education department at the Arthur Jordan College of Music at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Mr. Hovey started working for the Selmer Company in 1957 as the education director in Elkhart, Indiana and remained there for the next 18 years and received many awards and accolades.

Hovey served as the president of the Music Industry Council from 1962 to 1964, as well as the president of the American Bandmaster's Association from 1970 to 1971. He was also a member of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, and an honorary member of Kappa Kappa Psi, Phi Beta Mu and the Canadian Bandmasters Association. Before his death, Hovey continued to direct numerous bands and ensembles and wrote or edited many music instruction books and methods which are still in use today. Hovey was also inducted into the National Band Association's Hall of Fame of Distinguished Band Conductors shortly before his death in March, 1986.

Personal life
Hovey married Ruth Emily Sinden from Maquoketa, Iowa in December 1927, whom he met while a student at Iowa State Teachers College. After her death in 1978, Hovey married Helen Gowdy in 1979. Hovey had two daughters by the previous marriage. Hovey died on March 14, 1986.

Books
<!-- First Book of Practical Studies: Cornet and Trumpet Robert W. Getchell (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1985) ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>578
 * Advanced Technique for Bands: Trumpet By Nilo W. Hovey (M.M. Cole Publishing Co., 1980)
 * Advanced Technique for Bands: Alto Saxophone By Nilo W. Hovey (M.M. Cole Publishing Co., 1980)
 * Belwin Clarinet Method, Book One By Kenneth Gekeler, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Clarinet Method, Book 2 (as editor) By Gekeler & Kenneth, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Saxophone Method By Kenneth Gekeler, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Oboe Method, Book One (as editor) By Kenneth Gekeler, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Flute Method Book Two By Kenneth Gekeler, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Elementary Band Method: Trombone (Bass Clef) By Fred Weber, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Elementary Band Method By Fred Weber, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Belwin Intermediate Band Method Bb Cornet (Trumpet) By Fred Weber, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Cimera-Hovey Method for Trombone and Baritone By Jaroslav Cimera and Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Daily Exercises for Saxophone By Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Edwards-Hovey Method for Cornet or Trumpet By Austyn R. Edwards, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Edwards-Hovey Method for Cornet or Trumpet, Bk 2 By Austyn R. Edwards and Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Efficient Rehearsal Procedures for School Bands, (Elkhart: The Selmer Co., 1976)
 * First Book of Practical Studies: Cornet and Trumpet By Robert W. Getchell, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * First Book of Practical Studies for Clarinet By Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * First Book of Practical Studies for Tuba By Robert W. Getchell, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * First Book of Practical Studies for Bassoon By D. McDowells, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music 1987)
 * First Book of Practical Studies for Saxophone By Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Pottag-Hovey Method for French Horn, Book One By Max P. Pottag and Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet, Book II By Robert W. Getchell, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Rubank Elementary Method Oboe
 * Rubank Elementary Method Clarinet
 * Rubank Elementary Method Saxophone
 * Rubank Elementary Method E-flat/BB-flat Bass (Tuba or Sousaphone)
 * Rubank Instrumental Charts Complete Chromatic Fingering Charts for Basses (Eb & BBb)
 * 2nd Book of Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet (as editor)
 * Second Book of Practical Studies for Clarinet By Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Second Book of Practical Studies for Tuba By Robert W. Getchell, Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Second Book of Practical Studies for Saxophone By Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * Selmer Teacher’s Guide to the Clarinet (1967)
 * Supplementary Duets for Flutes
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: E-Flat Alto Saxophone By Nilo W. Hovey (Alfred Music, 1985)
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: E-Flat Baritone Saxophone
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: Trombone
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: C Flute (Piccolo)
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: B-Flat Tenor Saxophone
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: Bassoon
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: Baritone
 * T-I-P-P-S for Band: E-Flat Alto Clarinet

2nd Book of Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet Nilo W. Hovey (Editor), Robert W. Getchell (Composer) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>960

First Book of Practical Studies for Clarinet Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>107

Pottag-Hovey Method for French Horn, Book One Max P. Pottag (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>165

First Book of Practical Studies for Tuba Nilo W. Hovey (Editor), Robert W. Getchell (Composer) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>653

Second Book of Practical Studies for Tuba Robert W. Getchell (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>646

Belwin Clarinet Method, Bk 1 Kenneth Gekeler (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>632

Daily Exercises for Saxophone Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>336

First Book of Practical Studies for Bassoon D. McDowells (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1987) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>944

Edwards-Hovey Method for Cornet or Trumpet, Bk 2 Austyn R. Edwards (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>679

Belwin Saxophone Method Gekeler (Author), Kenneth (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>431

Belwin Clarinet Method, Book 2 Gekeler (Author), Kenneth (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>428

First Book of Practical Studies for Saxophone Hovey (Author), Nilo W. (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>953

Second Book of Practical Studies for Saxophone Hovey (Author), Nilo W. (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>699

Second book of Practical Studies for Clarinet Hovey (Author), Nilo W. (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>578

Cimera - Hovey Method for Trombone and Baritone Cimera (Author), Jaroslav (Author), Hovey (Author), Nilo W. (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>019

T-I-P-P-S for Band: E-Flat Alto Saxophone Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>700

Belwin Elementary Band Method: Trombone (Bass Clef) Fred Weber (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>073

Belwin Flute Method Book Two Gekeler (Author), Kenneth (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>400

Edwards-Hovey Method for Cornet or Trumpet Edwards (Author), Austyn R. (Author), Hovey (Author), Nilo W. (Author) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>158

Belwin Elementary Band Method Weber (Author), Fred (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Music (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-10:<PHONE_NUMBER> ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>314

Belwin Oboe Method, Bk 1 Kenneth Gekeler (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Alfred Publishing (March 1, 1985) Language: English ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>190

Belwin Intermediate Band Method Bb Cornet (Trumpet) Fred Weber (Author), Nilo W. Hovey (Editor) Publisher: Belwin, Inc. (1947) ASIN: B002QWDVR4

Advanced Technique for Bands: Trumpet Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: M.M. Cole Publishing Co. (1980) ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>020

Advanced Technique for Bands: Alto Saxophone Nilo W. Hovey (Author) Publisher: M.M. Cole Publishing Co. (1980)ISBN-13:<PHONE_NUMBER>993

Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet, Book II Robert W. Getchell (Author), Nilo W. Hovey  (Author) Publisher: BELWIN MILLS PUBL (1985) ASIN: B0052GF3AE -->

Chamber Compositions

 * Aria Cantando, for clarinet and piano (1948, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Chanson Moderne, for clarinet and piano (1948, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Clouds in Summer, for clarinet and piano (1948, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Gypsy Moods, for clarinet and piano (1948, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Solo Semplice, for clarinet and piano (1948, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Valse Grazioso, for clarinet and piano (1948, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Song of Spring, for clarinet and piano (1962, with Beldon Leonard)
 * The Carnival of Venice, for clarinet and piano (1964, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Bagatelle, for clarinet and piano (1965, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Andante and Waltz, for clarinet and piano (1968, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Caprice, for clarinet and piano (1968, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Contra Danse, for clarinet and piano (1968, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Il Primo Canto, for clarinet and piano (1968, with Beldon Leonard)
 * In the Minor Mode, for clarinet and piano (1970, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Minuetto, for clarinet and piano (1970, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Reflections, for clarinet and piano (1970, with Beldon Leonard)
 * Concert Piece, for clarinet and piano (1973, with Beldon Leonard)

title: Nilo Hovey


text:
Talk:Neopets/Archive 2

"Guide to making neopoints" link
For the "Guide to making neopoints" link at the bottom of the page- is it really fair to do this? There are just so many guides out there, and the site is not affiliated with NeoPets. Maybe this can also be seen as POV. Personally, I think since the site is not affiliated with NeoPets, it does not really add to somebody's knowledge of NeoPets, and since there are so many sites aiming to do what that one does, I believe that the link should be removed altogether. -Frazzydee 23:23, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't think that site's fundamentally any different than the other non-affiliated help sites, like Pink Poogle Toy, Nothing But Neopets, etc. The harm is de minimis, and perhaps it adds something for those who have no prior knowledge of Neopets. Dirtside 17:19, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Me too,there of lots of helpful sites that tell you how to make neopoints, get the exact time, etc. There of still even hacker sites!!!  We can't control them, but you can help someone get extra supplies, and if there weren't these sites, lots of people wouldn't be so successful in making shops or Neopoints!

Fantasy animals?
"There are also Neopets versions of popular fantasy animals, such as dragons and dinosaurs".

Dinosaurs are real animals, NOT fantasy animals!

 * Fixed. -Frazzydee 18:20, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

So what? The lion is also a popular animal in fantasy. Besides, not -everyone- would agree that they're real ^_~

POV needs to be addressed
>In my opinion, the screenshot of Neopets shows Pro-Neopets POV. It should show the ads in order to >make the point of view neutral. > > - Tezeti

Golphers?
Are Chias realy golpher-like? I'm not too shure.

Joiz 02:28, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Better to use as examples pets where the original animal is clear to everyone. (The Lupe is a good example.) I would mention the Pteri (a bird) or Bruce (a penguine) instead. Aranel 00:29, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Chias look like giant jelly beans to me. - PinkDeoxys 21:10, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Neopets images
I'm thinking about adding images for each of the neopets on their own pages (ie put a picture of a Nimmo on the Nimmo page, Blumaroo on the Blumaroo page, etc). My question is, does anyone know how to handle the copyrights on these images? Bbhtryoink 02:14, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * The Neopets Terms and Conditions page explains that images are free for use on personal, non-commercial web pages. I don't know about personal, but this ought to count as non-commercial. There's a certain copyright statement that they want to have included. You're right that it seems incomplete to describe the individual pet species without any images to clarify. Aranel 00:22, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

British English?
I just edited one use of the spelling "color" since "colour" also appeared in the article. I couldn't figure out which was there first, so I went with the British spelling since the Neopets site actually uses British English except where someone forgot and used something else. I propose that this be the unofficial policy for pages referring to Neopets, since we've got to standardize it to something, and some of the terminology (e.g. the "Grey" Paintbrush) is going to require British spelling anyway. Aranel 01:08, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

- Shouldn't the entire website include British English, as British English is the original English language, not American English. If we were to go really far to this, we could make Wikipedia in British English and American English language versions. Benbread 18:08, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, neither is the "original" English language. They have both evolved. It's just that geographical, political, and cultural elements have caused the "original English language" to evolve into several branches (which continue to relate to one another). But that is neither here nor there: Wikipedia policy (see Manual of Style clearly states that there is no preference for one regional variety of English. It has, however, useful to be more or less consistent within one article. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:51, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Agreed :) Thanks for explaining that to me.--Benbread 19:44, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Fan sites
Before replying in this section (which apparently invites lots of replies), please realize this was fairly long ago. --AySz88 ^ -  ^  03:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I removed the following link to fan sites:
 * Guide to making Neopoints
 * NeoHelpers
 * Neopets Hive
 * NeoClours

1-The "guide to making Neopoints" is not all that popular or well-known. I've been playing Neopets for two years and I visit lots of fan sites. Neopets fan sites like to link to each other and talk about each other, but I have never heard of this site from anyone else.

2-The same goes for "Neopets Hive" and "NeoHelpers", except that I think I heard of them once. But they are no more worthy for inclusion than any other Neo-help site. (Actually, I've never heard of "Neopets Hive", period.)

3-Neocolours is a credible fan-site and its inclusion would be perfectly reasonable, except that it is all about paintbrushes and such and that is not what this article is about. It is linked on the list of pets article, where it should be.

I think the main Neopets link is all that is needed for this article. Here are some more significant fan sites that might be included if we're going to do the fan site thing, however:
 * Nothing But Neopets
 * NeoItems (the only source of complete item info)
 * Neoholic.com
 * Pink Poogle Toy
 * The Neopian Commentary
 * Neocolours (the only source of complete color/paintbrush info)
 * NeoNonsense (a much better and better-known site for newcomers) --Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:48, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have heard of the "Guide to making Neopeoints" and what is interesting about this site is that it has Antineopian perspectives as well.
 * (The above was a post by Tezeti on February 23, 2005 21:23. AySz88 ^  -  ^  02:26, August 3, 2005 (UTC))

These are also great sites:
 * Neo Dragon Riders
 * Neonewsnow
 * Neostatic
 * Neoaccess

Just because you have not heard of a website doesn't mean that it is terrible. Tine Neo Help is outdated, and NeoHolic doesn't exist anymore! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk • contribs) 03:02, December 31, 2005 (UTC); edited for spelling, January, 2006.

Controversy and News Coverage
I'm considering writing up a bit on some of the controversy and news coverage Neopets has generated over the years (positive and negative), everything from articles about how some teachers use it as an aid to teaching basic economics to their controversial methods of gathering the majority of their income to the recent flare up in Australia. I'm not sure how helpful to the article this might be though. What do you all think? Reene (リニ) 15:16, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it's a good idea. After all, Neopets is a corporation (Company? whatever.) now, not just the website. Any major controversy it generates is definitely article-worthy. PMC 22:26, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * You might want to include this in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk • contribs) 16:15, December 11, 2005 (UTC).

 * I'm not sure that's very reliable, but I'll put a mention in the article, since it has details we don't have. --AySz88 ^ -  ^  17:29, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Pokémon?
"They can also read books and battle each other Pokémon-style." -Shouldn't this be "RPG-style"? After all, that style was used before Pokémon, right? --OGoncho 19:25, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Yep. Edited it. I can see why a parallel to Pokémon was drawn, so I left that in, just worded it a bit better. Remove if you see fit. Reene (リニ) 22:12, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, Neopets battling is more like Pokémon than any other RPG. -- PinkDeoxys 23:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Thomas Deaton?
Some anon keeps adding "Thomas Deaton" (Apparently himself) as the previously unknown third founder of Neopets. I've been a site addict for five years and I've never heard of the guy. Google only finds one hit for Thomas Deaton + Neopets, and it's a dubious one. I've been reverting the edits as he makes them - is there anyone going to back up his interesting claims? PMC 23:15, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I have never heard of this person, and I've been around Neopets for some time. Unless it's backed up with information from some source other than this person's own website, I'm inclined to suspect either vanity or hoax. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 23:46, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just b/c you guys haven't heard about the other 2 founders (myself and Adam), does not mean that we did not co-found the site with Donna and Adam. It simply means that b/c they are still part of the company, they get to write the history the way they want to. ;) When the company that Doug Dohring was part of bought the site from us, Adam Garner and I decided, for our own reasons, to _not_ work full-time for the then-newly formed company.  If I had had my druthers, I would have continued working on/with neopets, but there were serious personal conflicts that arose during that transitional period...and in the interest of the site, I decided to pursue other endeavors; I don't know why Adam Garner (he was the web designer by the way) didn't stay.

As a side note, if you both have been on the site since the beginning (and PMC, you *must* have been, since you claim to have been on the site for five years, and tomorrow marks its 5th anniversary), then you should recall that the original credits, which were done in flash, featured the original handful of neopets (jubjub, scorchio, etc.) along with the founders: myself, Adam P., Adam G. and Donna.

I will continue to modify your modifications. If you don't believe my claims, then you should send an email to the legal department at neopets. They are obligated to state true facts, and if you ask them about Thomas Deaton and Adam Garner, then you will find that, contrary to what you have been led to believe, Adam and I are 2 of the 4 original founders. And we always will be!

Thanks for your time, Thomas :)

No, that's not how it works. If you can't back your claims up, you cannot add it to the article. Please take a good look at the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia before making further edits. Reene (リニ) 00:43, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm, interesting: here are 2 of the key policies:

 * 1) Avoid bias. Articles should be written from a neutral point of view, representing differing views on a subject fairly and sympathetically.
 * 2) Respect other contributors.

It doesn't sound like you are following either of those.

Also, I found these:

(I am contributing information that I *know* to be true.) (I am simply adding information that makes the Neopets article more *complete*.)
 * 1) Contribute what you know or are willing to learn more about
 * 1) Always make articles as complete as possible

- Thomas

 * Thomas, it may be that you are one of the founders for all I know. However, you aren't making this very easy for us to verify your information. For instance, I am actually George W. Bush's half-brother, but do you see me adding information about myself to the page? Noooo. In other words - back up your facts with an external reference, or give us some proof, or we won't be adding this information to Wikipedia. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:02, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Can you prove that information to be true? Just because you say so does not make it law. And look me up - "Neodragoness" being my username. I may not have been on for EXACTLY five years (sue me, I'm rounding) but it's been a damn long time. *grins* I never did see those credits, I was on a computer without flash for a long time and they took those down before I ever saw them. But did they really have Jubjubs? As I recall, they were originally called Jibjibs. Or would you not know that? PMC 02:21, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It's hardly biased to tell you that you cannot add something to an article when there is absoloutely no proof backing it up. You must cite something like this- you can't just say "I know, trust me" ESPECIALLY when it is something of this nature. You're basically telling us to take your word for something there is no proof of. We cannot do that. You've also violated the three revert rule. That is a big no-no. Reene (リニ) 02:28, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

And, what, pray tell, PMC, would be proof? I've already suggested that you send an email to neopets' legal department. They would be compelled to validate my statements. Certainly, if *I* submit anything to you, you're not going to believe it, so I think the ball's in your court.

And, Reene, it *is* biased when you insist upon believing only one (1) point of view.

I've added this dispute to the RfC page. EvianHat, you may add a summation of your argument in the appropriate section below. I ask that you abide by whatever the popular opinion on the matter is. Reene (リニ) 02:44, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

I've done some detective work on this and what I've uncovered seems to lend credence to at least some of these claims. An interview with Adam Powell on Pink Poogle Toy (a neopets fan-site) contains a reference to Adam Garner with regards to the site's founding (question 6).

There is also a reference to "Adam, Adam and Donna" in the Neopets news archive from January 12, 2000 (about two months after the site was started).

These two facts, to me, would seem to suggest that it's likely that Adam Garner was involved with starting the site. I've not managed to find anything that mentions Thomas Deaton at all though. That's not to say that I believe he wasn't involved (or that I believe he was), just that I haven't found anything. Rho 03:05, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I have read the interview in question (it's on a fansite, BTW, and is in no way official or endorsed by Neopets) and I do not believe it is referring to them in such a manner. Rather, I believe they were merely people who were present at the conception and creation. Adam and Donna were the ones that actually produced and maintained the site in the beginning, and while the other two may have offered ideas/suggestions/moral support I highly doubt they had any real involvement. More than likely, if the user that brought up this issue IS in fact one of the people in question, he saw the success that Neopets had, got upset at himself for not taking a more active role, and is seeking to elbow in on a bit of that fame.
 * The simple fact is that he isn't acknowledged in the slightest as a co-founder by anybody that matters. The only things we have to go on are his word and a passing, non-specific mention by the real co-founders (assuming they did in fact say that). Now, perhaps there is more to this- perhaps it's just some vast conspiracy on the part of Adam and Donna to keep all the fame to themselves, but I somehow doubt it. Reene (リニ) 04:24, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * If I was just going off the interview, then I'd agree with you. In fact, that's what I thought when I read the interview. It was reading the bit of the news archive, with reference to a second Adam, that made me think that there was possibly something going on here. It isn't conclusive, I know, but it definitely made me reconsider somewhat. Rho 15:56, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This is just FYI (since I'm waiting to here what No-One Jones gets back from neopets): Adam G. and I did more than just offer moral support/suggestions, etc. We all 4 *started* building neopets.com in the latter part of September, 1999. Adam G. designed the web-site (he did all the navigation graphics...they're still in use today) and I worked on a tile-based "world" that the neopets would play around in. I also wrote the java chat program that was in use until February, 2000 (note: my code was taken down from the site at that time b/c we were still negotiating my individual terms of the buyout...there was the possibility that they would not own my code after the deal was done, so *they* took it down). In addition to these contributions, we all 4 basically worked night and day for 6 straight weeks to get the code and art for neopets.com up and running. We also brain-stormed ideas together over meals, then we'd come back to our "office", a little 2-bedroom apt. in Beverly Hills, and continue working on our respective parts.

(Comment from a bystander, but the original offices were near Guildford in England. Hence I'm very confused by this refernce to Beverly Hills...

Also, I want to point out that I am not bringing up this issue because I am "upset at myself[sic] for not taking a more active role". As I stated in an earlier post, I wanted to continue to work on and with neopets, but there were some very serious personal issues that developed during the process of our web-site being purchased. Adam Powell, Donna Williams and I no longer get along. Adam Garner and I speak from time to time, and he's a very nice guy. But the issues that led to my decision to depart had more to do with Adam P., Donna and Doug D.. It got to the point that in around February, 2000, Adam P. (or whoever controlled the server then) changed my login info on the neopets server...so I was basically shut right out of continuing any work on the site. :( And b/c my issues have to do with Adam P, Donna and Doug D. (the CEO), guess what?  They don't mention me on the site.

The main reason I brought up this issue is that I ran across this page and saw that Adam P. and Donna are still receiving *all* of the credit for starting the site. And since this (wikipedia) is a more democratic arena than the neopets web-site (since they have a lot more control there), I thought this would be a good place to tell a little bit of the story the way it really happened. :)

Thanks again for your time, Thomas :)

 * There are two things wrong with all of that: No original research is allowed on Wikipedia (which is as good as what this is) and Wikipedia is not a soapbox (though you seem to want to use it as one as you yourself admit). Your story may be quite interesting and even true but without substantial proof it cannot be put on the article. I doubt even the legal department would admit you had involvement in the earlier parts of the site- They legally wouldn't have to and something like that would be bad for their image. So what leg do you have left to stand on? Reene (リニ) 01:30, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Let's see, according to wikipedia:

A wikipedia entry counts as research if it proposes ideas, that is:

* It introduces a theory or method of solution; * It introduces original ideas; * It defines terms; or   * It introduces neologisms.

The *facts* that I have been discussing are not (a) theories, (b) original ideas, (c) definitions of new terms, nor (d) neologisms. Really, you're grasping at straws there. Reene, you are a *very* narrow-minded person, whoever you are...in fact, I suspect that you may have ulterior motives for keeping this information off of this site. Thankfully though, there are more people than just yourself involved in this process. Finally, I would be more than happy to stop "passionately advocating my POV", as long as you would kindly refrain from making statements that (a) call into question my honesty, and (b) question my motivation for discussing this topic.

Thank you, Thomas :)

Let's just e-mail Adam and Donna and ask them. -- PinkDeoxys 21:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, I just found this on the page that Reene pointed to earlier:

What should not be excluded:

The following are NOT grounds for exclusion:

1. Listing claims which have little or no supporting evidence;

Can some objective party please explain whether or not this means that my claim *can* be added (even if we don't get the evidence)?

Thanks again, Thomas :)

 * May I also point you to No personal attacks as well? I would appreciate it if you didn't attack my integrity as an editor in your attempt to push your POV onto the article.
 * You are introducing new ideas/"facts": The idea that you are some long-lost co-founder of Neopets is and was unheard of before you showed up.
 * You aren't merely trying to list a "claim" here by the way, you're trying to list this in the opening paragraph of the article as a fact when nothing supports it. There is a huge difference and you really need to learn a thing or ten about Wikipedia and its policies before you start attacking others and building flimsy strawmen to support yourself.
 * Two objective parties have given their opinion here on this matter, one of which is an administrator. I highly doubt the legal department of Neopets is going to give a flying fig about it either. The absurdity of this entire issue astounds me and I really hope you just drop the entire thing and find another soapbox to try and stand on. Reene (リニ) 03:49, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm happy to see that you too are concerned about personal attacks on people's integrity. Sincerely, I apologize for offending you. However, I will not drop this entire thing. If it's really not that important to you, then perhaps you should drop it. Note, however, that you have not addressed the question I posed in my last post. Since you seem to know quite a bit about policies here, perhaps you could enlighten me. If not, then, oh well...

I want to mention though, that I've read a bit on wikiquette...the first thing I read was: "Assume good faith. Wikipedia has worked remarkably well so far based on a policy of nearly complete freedom to edit." I believe that this whole issue became complicated b/c some people's behavior wasn't in line with "assuming good faith." The edit that I made was done in good faith. It is not false. I have been accused of lying and you, Reene, stated "more than likely, if the user that brought up this issue IS in fact one of the people in question, he saw the success that Neopets had, got upset at himself for not taking a more active role, and is seeking to elbow in on a bit of that fame." You couldn't possibly know my reasons for bringing up this issue. The comment you made was *not* very nice. And, again, it is not accurate. And, again, my edits were done in Good Faith, which *is* in line with policy.

- Thomas :|

 * "Assume good faith" is not a hard-line policy when it comes to vandals and trolls. Your edits and attitude were and are completely in line with such individuals, particularly the fact that you reverted no less than eight times even though it had become clear that multiple editors objected to your changes. The fact that you repeatedly broke policy- first as an anonymous user and then as a registered user- makes the actions of myself and other users justified. And mind, what I said was mere speculation on the nature of the edits, whereas you unilaterally stated that I was "narrow-minded" while also suggesting I have some kind of "ulterior motive" for keeping the article NPOV and factually correct/verifiable. Reene (リニ) 06:00, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, let's see if I've got this straight: it's *not* okay to say something like "you are a troll", but it is okay to say "your edits and attitudes are in line with such individuals." Your comments are works of art, they are. ;)

And who is it that determines which policies are hard-line and which are not? Is it you; do you determine these based on their usefulness for your argument?

I *still* see no comment from you regarding my question 2 posts ago.

- Thomas :|
 * Mr. Deaton-
 * Some relevant policies are at Check your facts, Verifiability,Cite sources, and Don't create articles about yourself. (The last one includes some comments that are particularly relevant and do represent the general feeling around here. Note that this is a consensus-based system.)

 * If what you are saying is true—and I can't prove that it isn't—then I am truly sorry that you have been cut out, but Wikipedia is not the place to set the record strait. You are basically trying to change the public record. If you are not getting the credit you deserve, then you should be taking this up with the folks at Neopets, with newspapers, with your local news station, with your lawyer, or on your own site or blog.

 * If we can get confirmation from an authoritative source (other than yourself—the benefits to you if this should be verified make you a biased source, and there's no getting around that—we don't know you and don't know if your word is to be trusted) or if this becomes a big enough issue to be notable in and of itself, then we can include the information in the article. (The fact that an issue is being discussed on a Wikipedia article's talk page is not particularly notable. If it were being discussed by dozens of Neopets fansites and the Neopets site published an official statement, then it would be notable.)

 * The "no original research" policy is not as relevant as Wikipedia is not a soapbox. See especially #6 under the articles section.

 * My suggestion is that you spend some time editing articles that have nothing to do with Neopets. Your obvious ability to write coherent English would be an asset to most articles. ;) Aside from making a gesture of good faith, you will get to know the sentiments of the Wikipedia community, you will learn how policies and procedures tend to translate into real-life practices, and you will be accomplishing something useful while we wait to hear back from Neopets legal. :)

 * -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:18, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * (Tip: Sign your posts with ~ so we know who said what!)

Thanks, Aranel, for the constructive comments. I'll go ahead and check out some other areas here at Wikipedia. :)

- Thomas Evianhat 05:19, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Summary
Evianhat claims they are Thomas Deaton, a long-lost co-founder of the Neopets website. Thomas Deaton is mentioned nowhere on the site itself and a Google search yields only one hit. User says their name was mentioned in a Flash years ago and that a letter to Neopets' legal department would reveal the truth. User claims others are being POV and biased in the removal of his name from the article and says he is merely adding what he knows as per Wikipedia policies and guidelines. User has violated the Three revert rule in an attempt to keep his name on the article. Three other users have disagreed with the changes and have reverted them. The issue is at a stalemate. Should this user be allowed to put his name on the article as a co-founder of Neopets?

Arguments
Thomas Deaton (User:EvianHat) claims they are one of two other founders of Neopets besides Adam Powell and Donna Williams. These two long-lost founders are mentioned nowhere on the Neopets site and a google search for "Thomas Deaton" +Neopets turns up only one hit. This user offers no proof to back up his claims save for saying that a Flash animation that was once displayed on the Neopets website five years ago (and has long since been removed) displayed his name as one of the co-founders. This is not only impossible to prove, but I have been a user of the Neopets site since less than 5 months after its initial launch and recall no such Flash animation. I do not feel adding Thomas Deaton's (or the mysterious fourth founder's) name to the list of co-founders is good for the article for these reasons. This is unprovable and of a highly dubious nature. I would also like to point out the Wikipedia policy Cite your sources. User is attempting to unfairly shift the burden of proof from himself onto other users. Reene (リニ) 03:05, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, how about if we do this: We temporarily take down the part about me and Adam Garner for a few days. In the meantime, Reene, someone such as yourself can send an email to neopets' legal department. Ask them if Thomas Deaton and Adam Garner were founders of the neopets.com web-site and then wait for their reply. If they confirm my claims, then we add the part back in about me and Adam G. However, if they do not confirm my claims, then I will work with them and my attorneys to get some sort of verifiable document to you regarding this issue.

If, however, no one attempts to contact neopets regarding my claim, then we put my additions back in.

Does that sound fair?

- Thomas :)

 * Please use this section to succintly argue your side of the issue and nothing else. Reene (リニ) 03:00, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Reene - I get the feeling that you aren't really looking for the truth here. Why would you respond in such a manner to what appears to me to be a reasonable resolution to this issue? - Thomas

Arguments for Thomas's addition to the article
awaiting email response from neopets' legal department, verifying my claims - thomas.

Here's a link to a page regarding the beginning of neopets. http://wizardmansion.com/wizardpages/evianhat/neopets.html

Also, here's an independent reference: http://www.cybren.com/team_deaton.html

I get a 404 error when I go to the wizardmansion link.

Arguments against Thomas's addition to the article

 * There is no proof whatsoever offered to this date which suggests that Thomas or the fourth founder ever existed and/or were part of the Neopets project. As such, there is no justification for adding either to the article. One cannot cite a lack of facts. The burden lies on one who wishes to add the disputed fact, not on those who dispute it. - Vague Rant 04:34, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * The thing is, every website that mentions Thomas seems to have been created by, well...Thomas himself. We need an outside source to really verify this. [[User:Premeditated Chaos| P M  C ]] 06:56, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I asked Thomas (via email) to create the website himself. That way, we can make a note of his claims and use an external source. I think it works well: I've already told him that this source isn't authoritative and we won't be treating it as such. We just have to mention it and move along, until we get confirmation from a company that doesn't seem terribly cooperative. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:10, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * They aren't, really. I've been playing for about 5 years and never once have they answered an email I've sent them =P [[User:Premeditated Chaos| P M  C ]] 23:29, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Well then. Now that I have two links to information, I'll put them in myself in a way that will try to make everyone happy (famous last words!). - Ta bu shi da yu 07:21, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * One of the websites was written by Thomas himself and the other is a website that lists him as staff (therefore he likely has moderate control over the content). Neither of these are credible sources! Reene (リニ) 07:43, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * He has no control over www.cybren.com. It is my company.  He worked as a consultant<EMAIL_ADDRESS>19:21, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * So we note that it is a claim by the author. We don't have to say they are credible sources. We just have to mention them. I'm going to write the info up on it. - Ta bu shi da yu 09:19, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I've been on Neopets for 4 years. Never have I heard of a staff member called Thomas Deaton. (if you're interested, my username is toknowtheunown) -- PinkDeoxys 23:43, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

E-mailing Neopets
This is a very reasonable suggestion, and I have e-mailed their legal department asking about the truth of Mr. Deaton's claims and the availability of records which might confirm or disprove that claim. —No-One Jones (m) 03:06, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank you, No-One Jones. - Thomas

Keep in mind that if they don't get back to you in a week, they aren't getting back to you at all (don't know how much experience with Neopets you have). This is a pretty far-fetched claim after all. Reene (リニ) 04:30, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * don't know how much experience with Neopets you have—None whatsoever. A week isn't too long to wait, and in the meantime perhaps some other source will turn up. —No-One Jones (m) 04:32, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I just had a thought. Their T&C page lists a phone number. I'll contact them there during office hours tomorrow. Would anybody object? Reene (リニ) 04:35, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * My only objection to that would is, phone conversations are harder to verify than e-mails. It might help to inquire about public documents that would confirm or deny the contested claim, I suppose; their legal staff might know something. (I've already asked the same question in my e-mail, but of course there's no guarantee that they'll respond, and a phone call would probably be quicker in any case.) —No-One Jones (m) 04:57, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * A phone call is no less verifyable than an email. Both are equally forgable. Though I assure you I would not do such a thing. Reene (リニ) 05:05, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * Funny, that's what Thomas said about his involvement with NeoPets... - Ta bu shi da yu 01:36, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't believe anyone needs or wants to resort to forgery. (I, for one, didn't even know what Neopets was before I stumbled across this on RFC.) I just think verifying e-mail is easier than verifying phone calls, since it's easier to request a copy of an e-mail than it is to request a search through recordings of phone calls—if such recordings even exist. —No-One Jones (m) 05:19, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I called them. Rang about a dozen times before I got an answering machine that said the memory was full. I might try faxing them, but I don't expect much else to happen. Reene (リニ) 01:17, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

sigh
Thomas, if you're reading this, please provide some more concrete evidence. I was evidently wrong about our discussion before. Please don't add the material until we can get some more verifiable data. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:45, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sure thing, Ta bu shi da yu. Thanks for the heads-up. :)

- Thomas Evianhat 05:21, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thomas Deaton - an update.

 * It appears that there is a legal document that Thomas Deaton was one of the founders of Neopets. I am in correspondence with the user. I hope to get some more info and make a note of his involvement with Neopets soon. - Ta bu shi da yu 23:24, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Indeed, a legal document is no better proof. And that is indeed the original flash from the site. Well, that convinces me. I'd say the information could stand to be re-added to the article now. →Reene✎ 01:45, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well...I'm willing to believe it. I've seen the flash, seen the account name. You can't mess with the details on your lookup, and I distinctly remember (without ever having seen) the flash as being called "The Neopets Cometh". So...yeah, I withdraw all objections. User:Premeditated Chaos 01:47, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

OK so, why isn't it in the article then? (i must say reading all this has been better than any episode of law and order, and i'm glad to see the guy (who i did NOT believe for a SECOND) turned out to be telling the truth.) If we're all in consensus now...

 * Well, for one, I assume we're waiting on TBSDY to let us know what his correspondence with this user is producing. I would very much like to include a cite for this in the article, as this definitely falls under the category of "things that need to be cited". I'll nag TBSDY on IRC to get on the ball. →Reene✉ 03:14, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

I know I may be being awkward here but I have several objections:
 * How do we know Thegarner is the true owner of the ads account?
 * Thegarner has no user page. Could he be the same user as Thomas? Yet another person saying "Trust me!"
 * A flash may be created at any time...would this animation heavy, sound heavy flash have been available in 1999? As one of the first animations on site?

-Cheryl [Just realizing how paranoid I sound...I'm not trying to be POV, honest!]

 * How about this? I play with an account called "neodragoness". Send me a Neomail, and I'll copy/paste it here. If Aranel has an account, she can list it here, and you can send one to her too. That way we can clear up the suspicion of account ownership. User:Premeditated Chaos 04:05, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I got the Neomail just today, here it is:

From: Adam Garner [ads] Sent: 28/1/2005 02:00am  Subject: Random Chat Folder: Inbox Message:

Hi there,

''Not sure if my last message went through, it said something about trying to send a chain letter. Weird.''

Anyway, this is just a response to your post on wiki.

Hope all's well, Cheers, Adam User:Premeditated Chaos 23:31, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hey everyone. I haven't been here for a while. I'm glad to see that Adam Garner was able to pop in and say 'hi.' :)

I've been in contact with Ta bu shi da yu during the past couple of months. He's been tremendously helpful in trying to help resolve this issue. Unfortunately, he seems to be very busy these days and can't put any more time into it. It seems, however, that things were pretty close to being settled (eg: Reene, PMC and others seemed to be convinced by (a) the neopets email with Adam Garner and (b) the legal document that I have).

I am wondering if anyone here would be willing to pick up where Ta bu shi da yu left off. I know that he was the only one who saw the legal document, so that may need to be addressed again.

If anyone would like to help, please post a message here, or email me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>
Thanks, Thomas :) Evianhat

Hi. For what it's worth, I can offer some small degree of support to Thomas' argument. Obviously, my anecdotes prove nothing authoritatively, but they should lend some credence to his assertions. Thomas worked for me at Magnet Interactive, where he and I built an applet that would plot web-log accesses in realtime. Thomas left Magnet to work on NeoPets. He and I subsequently discussed the technologies of multithreaded servers when his existing Java/Applet-based chat server couldn't handle the traffic. I recommended that he pick up a copy of Stevens' Unix Network Programming and he rewrote the server in C++. Feel free to email me with any more specific questions at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>___Samuel___ libelle

Tezeti and Anti-Neopets
Because the opinions of many users should be represented, can I add two pages to the links representing a pro-neopian and anti-neopian opinion?

- Tezeti

no

- ...

Neopets game and movie
The article states, "In March 2005 Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. announced the upcoming June 2004 release of Neopets: The Darkest Faerie™, available exclusively for the PS one™ and PlayStation® game consoles". The dates are clearly wrong here, and could do with being fixed.

Also, there has now been official word on a Neopets movie. Information can be found here.

-- Daniel Lawrence 20:18, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The Neopian times always changes, so you won't be able to view the information about the movie anwymore, unless they add something new again -cutienemo04

Pop-culture references
Anyone else thinking that the list of pop-culture references is getting out of hand? I'm thinking maybe they should either be trimmed back substantially, or moved to an article of their. Something like list of references in Neopets, perhaps? Thoughts? Rho 14:09, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree, if someone gives me a name for the article, i'll happily create it, or is everyone OK with 'list of references in Neopets'? Benbread 20:44, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've moved the references to list of references in Neopets article as requested. The 'pop culture' section now links to that page, and the link has been added to the bottom of the page. Now that this article has been created, i would suggest some kind of formatting be put into place, as well as any more references if other know them. What about listing in alphabetical order or categories (Film, Game, etc)? --Benbread 17:29, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It seems someone has removed the Pop Culture section, but it remains in the links section. Should we re-instate the category, or leave it as it is? ---Benbread 10:19, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Controversy - Addiction
There should be an addition made to the Controversy article: how addictive this game really is.
 * Er...how is this different from any other game or website, or the internet in general? -Aranel (" Sarah ") 17:04, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Concur with Aranel. Anything in this world is addictive. It all depends on the person's willingness to become addicted. --Sn0wflake 23:51, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the original poster. Any and every user from the Battledome Chat would agree. --Petpetpal7 00:52, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * That may be of interest to really hardcore fans, but it's not really encyclopedic. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 13:17, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Neopets has been shown to be more addictive than other sites in the virtual pet genre. Even the site's press kit advertises a high "stickiness" factor. The addictiveness of Neopets is certainly notable.
 * I played Neopets for about two years (I think my account was "clarinetfaerie"). I was very involved at one point, then I decided "this is boring" and stopped playing. So it definitely was not addictive for me. Yes, I know this is original research. Also, why does the site's press kit advertising "a high 'stickiness' factor" make it true? It's just advertising. And who "showed" it to be more addictive? Clarinetplayer 00:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It has been generally shown that MMORPGs are addictive, as long as there's social elements, etc. Whether or not Neopets can be compared to an MMORPG is questionable (there's usually a lot less social interaction on Neopets), but those who interact a lot in guilds, on the Neoboards, on fansite forums, etc. might indeed become "addicted". --AySz88 ^  -  ^  03:35, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

There are elements of Neopets that make it more "addictive" than other sites. The difficulty of achieving some goals, the accumulation of wealth, daily events, and the like make it so. It's not appropriate, I think, to address this in general in the Neopets description, but the overall topic is worthy of some level of research. (Sadly, the only research is probably done by companies wishing to make their sites such users in even more...)

Though the site is addictive, it isn't something controversial. -- PinkDeoxys 13:05, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Further Expansion?
A lot of further expansion can be done on various types of games (a very big role in the site) and maybe a couple of mentions of the Neopian Times? (Clues toward future events, stories, help, and much more can be found here) SandBoxer

 * I'll take on the project. Which games are you talking about? Like individual games (such as Meerca Chase) or most plot-related games (like the various wars)? Leave a message on my talk page if you want me to help. Thanks. --Acetic Acid 04:39, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Someone added a Stock Market section, so I took the opportunity to reorganize various things into a Gameplay section. Feel free to improve (or revert) if it isn't good. AySz88^-^ 00:02, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * Good idea to add it! I just expanded upon it a little and added a section for avatars. --Ryan 04:17, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Should we remove the section stub from Gameplay? It appears large enough now. Perhaps we should move Gameplay to its own article? The main article is starting to get longer than is recommended. --Ryan 03:13, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Would you file this under this under references in Neopets or gameplay or both? The fact that Neopets has its own Tycoon game aka Plushie Tycoon? SandBoxer

 * I think gameplay should have its own article. We could expand it, giving full descriptions of some of the most popular games. We could explain the Sponser games, list all of the avatars, etc. We could even write guides to Neopets, and post them on Wikibooks. I could go nuts on this article, but I'm holding back due to its size. Ryan 07:56, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Player Types
I removed the usernames used as examples under Player Types. Sure, Helen (hrobi) and Jasmine (featheralley) are among the top battlers, but they don't need any more recognition than they already receive. --Ryan 03:55, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Just about everyone on Neo knows who they are, and nobody else cares. -- PinkDeoxys 13:05, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Moving subsections
Someone suggested gameplay be moved, I think if anything should be moved, it should be Neoboards and social interaction? Maybe a Neopets Community article could be done? Anyone agree, disagree, don't care? SandBoxer
 * I say, give both Gameplay and Society their own articles. They are quite large, but we could easily expand them further. Ryan 07:57, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I would much prefer that both sections be severely cut down. They are both way longer than the game warrants. There is nothing particularly unique about the Neopets online community - it's just another internet community. The current article is a bit too fannish for my tastes. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 13:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

History of Neopets
Another article for this or a subsection I think should be added. There was a lot more of history around the pets than just 2 founders starting it. I dunno about anyone else but I was around about when the site started when the Bruce was as popular as a treestump. It showed a person in a tuxedo apparently singing (Bruce Forsyth). The Kacheek was also the Badeek which was looked like a grounchy four legged ovally cat. Neopets would release new designs for evolutions of pets to vote on like the Lupe. There was also a pet called the Macy Gray which was removed for copyright reasons. SandBoxer

Copyedit notes
I've been working on a major copyedit of this article, which has gotten rather bloated. I've been breaking my edits up by section so that folks can see what I'm doing. Please, please, if you disagree with me, don't just revert the whole lot of it! I'm putting a lot of work into this.

Some notes: Basically, in my opinion, if this article goes too much into details that are only of interest to die-hard fans (who already know), it tends to lower the overall quality of the information because it becomes buried under the avalanche of Neopets lingo. I'm also trying to get closer to a useful, NPOV article. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 22:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) This is an encyclopedia article, not a Neopets fan guide. The material on the Neoboards was particularly fannish. (And just about anyone could get that information just looking at the Neoboards page on the site.)
 * 2) The "player types" section had series POV problems. I don't think it's possible to keep this section. I just removed it.
 * Slightly radical, but I concur with the changes. --Sn0wflake 23:03, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I added/removed a couple of minor (nit-picky) things from the copyedit. The turning blue thing to clarify that the "consequences" aren't something like your Neopet running away.  I'm not sure if a "classic role playing game" is a specific type of role playing game, but I took out "classic".  I replaced the mention to COPPA to link to the article, since the article is relevant to it.  I replaced the My_First_Little_Pony link because it seemed to stop people from adding a lot of their own Neopage articles into the list (I think, though it could have been just the removal of all the other links at the same time that stopped it).  I hope the changes are okay. AySz88 ^  -  ^  00:35, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * That's fine, and thanks for cleaning up. (Especially the COPPA link. The text that I edited clearly needed work but I wasn't sure exactly how to do it.) When I said "classic roleplaying game" I was thinking along the lines of "the king you played on the original Nintendo, not the kind you would play on a PS2", but it doesn't really matter.
 * My primary concern with the My_First_Little_Pony link is that I've been on Neopets for nearly three years (!!!) on-and-off, and this is the first I've heard of it. However, if it is kept updated and is a useful resource, it doesn't necessarily have to be one of the most major sites in order to be included. I generally favor including the absolute minimum of fansites. Once you let in just a tiny bit more, the list tends to inflate quickly. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 00:48, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
 * We do not need a list of every forum at the Neoboards. Boards such as "Neopian Writers" are very relevant to people who post on them, but what happens there is really self-explanatory. We don't need to duplicate the board listing that already appears on the Neopets site. We should probably list less than what is currently included. ("Roleplaying", for instance, is fairly obvious.)
 * Neoholic as it currently stands is not a major fansite. It is a (new) branch off of another fansite (which is already listed). There used to be a Neoholic that was major enough to be listed, but the one that keeps being added is not that site. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 15:14, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Scams/Protection and Common Terms
Sorry, I just saw this page. :) Any opinions about the three sections I added? Are they biased, irrelevant, or too indepth? And err...how would I cite or gather sources for them? I'll stay tuned (sorry if the format isn't correct). - Eileen<EMAIL_ADDRESS> * Welcome! Feel free to register for an account (you just need to give username/password/email).  I'm not entirely sure that the information on scams should be in this article, since it's for people that have never heard of Neopets...but someone else will clear that up soon. AySz88 ^  -  ^  19:55, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Lol. Thank you. I did! :) That was my first time posting anything on Wikipedia, so I guess I got carried away...@@ Would it be better if I just cut out all the types of scams and stuck it in another article? Eileeny 08:56, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and removed it. (The text is still in the article history.) The fact is that no matter what Internet-inexperienced Neopets players think, Neopets "scams" are not at all unusual or particularly noteworthy. Like any Internet account, you can lose your Neopets account if you aren't careful. It's possible that a brief paragraph explaing the existence of "scams" (most people say their account is "hacked" in other contexts, not "scammed", but that's a minor terminology thing) and that they are slightly more prevalent on Neopets because of the relative inexperience of Neopets players would be useful. I don't think it requires its own section. I went ahead and added a short paragraph under "criticism".
 * I don't think the abbreviations section adds anything. Most of the abbreviations are self-explanatory or only of interest to Neopets players. People abbreviate things on the Internet. This is not particularly unusual. (Actually, it would really strange if it didn't happen.) It's sufficient to explain terms in passing when they come up. -Aranel (" Sarah  ") 18:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm...Yeah. Probably too much info for a general overview. Hehhehe. I followed some of the links and I think that npwiki.org would be more appropriate so I'll see if I can post it there. Thank you AySz88 and Aranel for responding and helping! :D Sorry about the extra work (that you had to undo). Eileeny 05:48, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Broken source
"The actual number of active accounts is around 11 million and the number of individual users is almost certainly less than this." As mentioned in the article, the source link was broken; it was originally http://media.hasbro.com/pl/page.release/dn/default.cfm?release=259 but is probably now http://www.hasbro.com/media/pl/page.release/dn/default.cfm?release=259. That is assuming that the press releases weren't renumbered when Hasbro changed their links. The article in question is indeed Neopets-related, and a search for "Neopets" in their press releases only comes up with one result (oddly, it doesn't seem to come up with this one). This article is from mid-2004 and actually doesn't say anything about the number of active accounts. The text is currently commented out, and if there isn't anything more current, I think it should be deleted. AySz88 ^ -  ^  22:12, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Unknown topic
The Neopets has indeed been confirmed. Or atleast confirmed in the neopian times editorial. Though I cant remember the issue. But it is confirmed. -geovanny1991

Ah is [] the link.

Ahh ignore my last post. Wrong discussion.

(moved above comments from other sections: AySz88 ^ -  ^  22:22, 2 November 2005 (UTC))

Updated (?) stats
http://info.neopets.com/presskit/compinfo.html might be a better source for the demographic stats at the beginning of the article - but it isn't dated. I might remove the part about "a Neopets-affiliated video game producer" and replace it with just "Neopets claims". It'd probably be best to find some independent source on these stats, if possible. AySz88 ^ -  ^  19:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

POV?
What does POV mean? -A Wikiguest —The preceding unsigned comment was added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk • contribs) 00:51, December 7, 2005 (UTC).

Point of view - we try to write articles in a "neutral" point of view. See the rules at Describing points of view and Neutral point of view. --AySz88 ^ -  ^  01:31, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

POV!
Wow, someone was bitter when they edited this article. Someone slap a POV tag on it! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DodgerOfZion (talk • contribs) 19:56, December 13, 2005 (UTC).

 * It was a recent addition that has now been reverted. If you come across something like that again, you can take a look at the Page History to see if it was a recent change and revert the article if it was. --AySz88 ^  -  ^  01:44, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Neopets/Archive 2


text:
ѹ

Usage notes
With the release of Unicode 5.1, in April 2008, the use of this digraph character was deprecated. The recommended representation is with either two separate letters or the monograph.

title: ѹ


text:
Luigi Farci

Luigi Farci (20 March 1939 – 11 August 2023) was an Italian field hockey player. He competed in the men's tournament at the 1960 Summer Olympics.

Farci died in Cagliari on 11 August 2023, at the age of 84.

title: Luigi Farci


text:
stå som spön i backen

Etymology
Literally, "stand like rods in the ground", referring to how heavy rain at a distance can look like a mass of vertical lines.

Verb

 * 1)  rain cats and dogs (rain very heavily)

title: stå som spön i backen


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Demoluca (2nd nomination)

The result was speedily deleted  by. See deletion log for rationale. Non-admin closure. — KuyaBriBri Talk 14:37, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Demoluca
AfDs for this article:
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  Stats )

No notability currently shown. The EP was self-released, fails WP:NALBUMS. Note WP:NOTINHERITED, although the artist is notable, that doesn't make the EP notable. Albacore (talk) 01:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've nominated this for speedy deletion since it appears to be the same content that was discussed at its first AFD at Articles for deletion/Demoluca. Albacore (talk) 01:22, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:16, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


text:
Young Martha

Young Martha is a collaborative extended play by American rapper Young Thug and producer Carnage. The EP was released on September 22, 2017, by YSL, 300 Entertainment, Atlantic Records and Heavyweight Records. Young Martha includes four tracks and guest appearances from Meek Mill and Shakka. It was produced by Carnage alongside OG Parker, Felix Snow, Wheezy, Nic Nac and Senojnayr.

Background
The collaborative EP was initially announced by Carnage in December 2016. The final track of the project, "Don't Call Me", premiered in July 2016, and was expected to be included on Carnage's sophomore album.

Singles
The lead single, "Homie" featuring Meek Mill, was released on September 8, 2017, for streaming and digital download. It was accompanied by a music video which premiered on Young Thug's YouTube. The second single, "Liger", was revealed a day before the EP's release on September 21, 2017.

Track listing
Credits adapted from BMI.

Notes
 * $undefined$ signifies a co-producer

title: Young Martha


text:
RV Southern Surveyor

The RV Southern Surveyor was an Australian marine research vessel. It was owned and managed by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), with its operations funded by the Australian Government to undertake oceanographic, geoscience, ecosystem and fisheries research. It was built in the UK in 1972 and acquired by CSIRO in 1988. It was replaced in 2014 by the RV Investigator.

Achievements
The ship has carried out 111 Marine National Facility research voyages in the course of which she has travelled 481,550 km. Achievements include the discovery of submarine volcanoes between Fiji and Samoa, the compilation of climate records from ancient corals, the production of a carbon chemistry map of the Great Barrier Reef, and the 2006 discovery of a 200 km diameter vortex in the waters above the Perth Canyon off the coast of Rottnest Island, Western Australia.

In 2012 the Southern Surveyor confirmed the 'undiscovery' of Sandy Island.

title: RV Southern Surveyor


text:
Template:Space

Usage
This template can be used inline to create alignment between adjacent text lines, or to space out titles, etc. Like indent, it takes a numeric argument 'nn' after the pipe and provides that many consecutive spaces. Indent differs only in that it automatically begins a newline, then spaces over nn spaces.

Example calls
,, etc. space and indent are limited to adding 30 spaces.

title: Template:Space


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Template talk:Replicate A

 * The template pair + help a string with 20 entries (in the example below, twenty letters A,B,C...,T) duplicate itself. Compare the pair+ where the "original" strand vanishes at the end.

See template talk:replicate A/ing for demonstration.

title: Template talk:Replicate A


text:
Samaññaphala Sutta

The Samaññaphala Sutta ("The Fruit of Contemplative Life") is the second discourse (Pali, sutta; Skt., sutra) of the Digha Nikaya.

In terms of narrative, this discourse tells the story of King Ajātasattu, son and successor of King Bimbisara of Magadha, who posed the following question to many leading Indian spiritual teachers: What is the benefit of living a contemplative life? After being dissatisfied with the answers provided by these other teachers, the king posed this question to the Buddha whose answer motivated the king to become a lay follower of the Buddha.

In terms of Indian philosophy and spiritual doctrines, this discourse:
 * provides the Buddha's own description of the lifestyle, mental, psychic and spiritual benefits ("fruit") of the Buddhist contemplative life;
 * provides one of the most detailed accounts in the Sutta Pitaka of the Buddhist community's code of ethical behavior;
 * describes from the Buddhist standpoint the essence of the teachings of several leading spiritual guides in the Buddha's time (see the table below for more details); and,
 * through the narrative of King Ajātasattu's confessed transgression and his subsequent psychic unrest, paranoia and karmic impediments, the narrative illustrates Buddhist notions of merit and kamma in juxtaposition to those associated with other contemporaneous teachers (who, for instance, are depicted as advocating views of amorality, fatalism, materialism, eternalism and agnosticism).

Thanissaro Bhikkhu refers to this discourse as "one of the masterpieces of the Pali canon."

The king's unrest
Upon a bright uposatha night, King Ajātasattu, monarch of Magadha Kingdom, who was in the mood to hear a Dhamma discourse, asked his ministers if there was any worthy teacher "who might enlighten and bring peace to our mind." The ministers in turn suggested that the monarch visited a variety of teachers, all of whom the King rejected by being silent. But when the King's physician, Jivaka, who was silent all the time, was asked if he could suggest a teacher to visit, the physician quickly replied that the Buddha was currently staying in the physician's mango groves.

The King immediately agreed to go there. After preparing the elephants and his followers, the King rode to the mango groves. Yet, upon arriving on the Groves, the King was suddenly overcome with worry and doubt. The hairs on his body even stood up as he felt an agonizing fear. He asked his physician nervously and suspiciously, "Are you not deceiving me, Jivaka? Do you not betray me and hand my life to the enemies? How come it happens that there is not a single sound heard at all, not even coughs or sneezes in the huge group of 1,250 Sangha monks?"

To answer his majesty's paranoia, the physician calmly reassured the monarch, "Do not worry, your Majesty. I am not lying, or deceiving, or betraying you to your enemies. Proceed on, your Majesty! There, in the Hall, where the lights are lit."

The King proceeded and when he entered the Hall, he had difficulty in spotting where the Buddha was. To his king's aid, Jivaka answered that the Buddha was sitting on the back of a pillar, surrounded by his disciples.

The King then approached the Buddha and gave his salutation. Then, while standing, he saw how the Monks sat in silence, calm like a still, waveless lake. He exclaimed: "Can my beloved son, Udayi Bhadda, possess such calmness and composure as the Monks show me now?"

The Buddha asked him, "If so, Your Majesty, how do you direct your mind towards compassion and love?"

"Bhante, I love my son very dearly, and I wish for him to possess the calmness as like the monks have now." The Monarch then prostrated himself towards the Buddha, clasped his palms in salutation to the monks, and then proceeded to sit on the Buddha's side. The monarch then asked, "If my teacher doesn't mind, may I ask you a question?"

"Ask what you want to ask, King."

The king's questioning of six ascetics
The King asks, "Bhante (Teacher), there are a number of skills and talents, such as: elephant-drivers, chariot-drivers, horse riders, archers, palanquin bearers, army commander's adjutants, royal officers, soldiers, warriors with elephant's courage, heroes, fighters, troops in deer-skin uniform, slaves, cooks and chefs, barbers, bathers, bakers, florists, launderers, weavers, crafters, potters, mathematicians, accountants, and many other skills. In their current life, they enjoy the real fruits of their skills. They support their life, their family, parents, and friends with their skills in happiness and welfare. They donate high-valued gifts and offerings to the Brahmins and the ascetics, giving them rewards of a joyful next life in heaven, and other joys. Can the Bhante instruct me in what are the real benefits of a contemplative life in this current life?"

The Buddha then replied, "Your Majesty, have you ever asked this question to any other teachers, brahmins, or ascetics?"

The King replied by repeating what each of six revered ascetic teachers allegedly told him. (These responses are summarized in the adjacent table.) The king found each of these answers to be dissatisfying: "Just as if a person, when asked about a mango, were to answer with a breadfruit; or, when asked about a breadfruit, were to answer with a mango."

The Buddhist fruit of the contemplative life
The Buddha then elaborated on his perspective regarding the benefits of the contemplative life, moving from the material to the spiritual:
 * Solitude's delight: For instance, for slaves and farmers, freedom from servitude resulting in being "content with the simplest food and shelter, delighting in solitude" as well as the veneration of others.
 * Virtue's pleasure: "[T]he monk ... consummate in virtue sees no danger anywhere from his restraint through virtue. Endowed with this noble aggregate of virtue, he is inwardly sensitive to the pleasure of being blameless."
 * Simplicity's contentment: "Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content."
 * Mental calm: With mindfulness and alertness (see sampajanna), a monk cleanses his mind of covetousness, ill will and anger, sloth and drowsiness, restlessness and anxiety, and doubt (see the Five Hindrances).
 * Jhanic bliss: He attains the four jhanic states which are associated with the permeating of his body with rapture, pleasure, equanimity, and a pure, bright awareness.
 * Insight knowledge: "[W]ith his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability — the monk directs and inclines it to knowledge and vision. He discerns: 'This body of mine is endowed with form, composed of the four primary elements, born from mother and father, nourished with rice and porridge, subject to inconstancy, rubbing, pressing, dissolution, and dispersion. And this consciousness of mine is supported here and bound up here.'"
 * Supernatural powers: "Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, and mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful.... He hears — by means of the divine ear-element, purified and surpassing the human — both kinds of sounds: divine and human, whether near or far."
 * Mind reading: He can discern in others states of consciousness such as those with or without passion, lust, delusion, concentration, etc. (see the Satipatthana Sutta regarding mindfulness of the mind).
 * Three knowledges: He can recollect past lives, see the rebirth of other beings, and knows the ending of suffering and the fermentations of sensuality, becoming and ignorance.
 * Release from samsara: "His heart, thus knowing, thus seeing, is released from the fermentation of sensuality, the fermentation of becoming, the fermentation of ignorance. With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"

Upon hearing the Buddha's explanation, King Ajātasattu declared himself a lay follower of the Buddha.

The king's patricide and its karmic consequences
The king then confessed that he himself had killed his own father so as to become king. The Buddha replied:
 * "Yes, great king, a transgression overcame you in that you were so foolish, so muddle-headed, and so unskilled as to kill your father — a righteous man, a righteous king — for the sake of sovereign rulership. But because you see your transgression as such and make amends in accordance with the Dhamma, we accept your confession. For it is a cause of growth in the Dhamma & Discipline of the noble ones when, seeing a transgression as such, one makes amends in accordance with the Dhamma and exercises restraint in the future."

The Buddha subsequently declared: "... Had [King Ajātasattu] not killed his father [King Bimbisara] — that righteous man, that righteous king — the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye would have arisen to him as he sat in this very seat."

title: Samaññaphala Sutta


text:
holländare

Etymology
Holland through umlaut -> Holländ + -are

Noun

 * 1) Dutch; person, chiefly male, from the Netherlands (more strictly from Holland)

title: holländare


text:
Elwin Bay

Elwin Bay is an Arctic waterway in Qikiqtaaluk Region, Nunavut, Canada. It is located Prince Regent Inlet by the northeastern shore of Somerset Island. Port Leopold is nearby.

History
In 1852, in search of the lost Franklin expedition, the French Arctic explorer Lieutenant Joseph René Bellot spent time in the bay and its surrounds.

It is filled with the skeletons and bones of several hundred beluga left by whalers. Many hunters died on whaling expeditions.

title: Elwin Bay


text:
USS Proteus (AC-9)

The collier USS Proteus (AC-9) was laid down on 31 October 1911, by the Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company, and launched on 14 September 1912. She was the lead ship of her class of four colliers. She was commissioned on 9 July 1913, to the United States Navy.

Service history
Following her fitting out and shakedown, Proteus steamed out of Norfolk, Virginia on 11 November 1913, on the first of four runs to Veracruz to coal battleships and cruisers of the Atlantic Fleet off Mexico. On 17 December 1914, Proteus left Hampton Roads carrying men, fuel, and stores to the Philippines. She completed the final of four such runs on 4 August of that year.

Sailing again from Norfolk on 25 September 1914, Proteus supplied coal, oil, men and stores for ships of the Atlantic Fleet at Rio de Janeiro and Montevideo. Assigned to the Naval Overseas Transport Service, she operated between Norfolk, Boston and New York City for the next several years.

Proteus set forth from New York on 14 July 1918, for the British Isles, returning to Hampton Roads on 19 September. She left again on Christmas Eve of 1918 for Brest, France, and spent the next six months shipping coal from Cardiff and Barry, Wales, to Brest.

Proteus returned to Norfolk on 6 August 1919, and during the greater part of the next three years cruised from Norfolk to replenish the Fleet in the Caribbean.

In the aftermath of World War I, Proteus cruised from Norfolk to replenish the U.S. Fleet in the Caribbean. Crossing the Panama Canal four times, she delivered fuel and stores to Pearl Harbor in 1920, and to Callao, Peru in 1921.

Her last supply run to the Caribbean ended at Hampton Roads on 12 April 1923. Proteus spent the remainder of her career in operations between Norfolk and Melville, Rhode Island.

She decommissioned at Norfolk on 25 March 1924 and remained inactive until her name was struck from the Naval Vessel Register on 5 December 1940. She was sold to Saguenay Terminals Ltd. of Montreal, Quebec on 8 March 1941 and thereafter operated in the Canadian Merchant Navy under the command of Master Walter Henry Millar.

Loss at sea
Proteus was lost at sea to an unknown cause sometime after 23 November 1941. There are no German U-boat claims for this vessel. One suggestion, having no supporting documentation, is that the vessel's disappearance can be attributed to the Bermuda Triangle.

A memorial listing of her crew can be found at the CWGC Halifax Memorial. A Canadian website suggests Proteus's possible fate as having foundered in heavy seas on 25 November 1941 somewhere in the Caribbean Sea with the loss of all of her 58 crewmembers.

Two of Proteus's three sister-ships, USS Cyclops (AC-4) and USS Nereus (AC-10), also vanished without a trace in the Bermuda Triangle area while doing similar duty during World War I and World War II, respectively, but confer the statement above concerning the so-called Bermuda Triangle. Her third sister-ship, USS Jupiter (AC-3), was converted into the very first U.S aircraft carrier and renamed USS Langley (CV-1). Langley was scuttled after being severely damaged by Japanese aircraft during World War II.

title: USS Proteus (AC-9)


text:
Talk:Donald Laing

External links modified
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title: Talk:Donald Laing


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Talk:Donald DePaolo

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110510013532/http://esd.lbl.gov:80/research/facilities/cig/ to http://esd.lbl.gov/research/facilities/cig/
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 * Added tag to http://www.icdp-online.org/front_content.php?idcat=714
 * Added tag to http://www.iodp.org/weblinks/SDSci/Deep-Drilling-into-a-Mantle-Plume-Volcano-/

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title: Talk:Donald DePaolo


text:
Talk:ITV.com

Wikiproject Computing
I have removed the WikiProject tag, as this article is either a redirect or deleted. If you oppose, please restore the tag. Thank you, fahadsadah (talk,contribs) 16:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:ITV.com


text:
Talk:Bev Bighead

First appearance
Bev is First Seen next to a piano, and has the line "how about springing for a couple of fruit smothies", in the episode No Pain, No Gain. --Rlk89

Does this character really need a separate entry?
Just wondering why an entire Wikipedia page needs to be devoted to Bev Bighead. Attention, unbiased outsiders... if you had to choose, would you rather give separate Wikipedia page to...

A) Starslip Crisis B) Bev Bighead C) both D) neither are deserving

Your feedback will greatly help in the establishment of a uniform Wikipedia notability process.

David —Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC) BRlk89 (talk) 02:52, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BevBigheadComic.jpg
Image:BevBigheadComic.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot 03:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Parody?
Anyone else wonder if she's supposed to be based on Isabel Sanford's Louise Jefferson? -- I'ḏ ♥  One  16:59, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bev Bighead