text:
Talk:David Cannadine

ODNB
"Unfortunately recent analytical examination of selected ODNB articles online has revealed them to be both inaccurate and incomplete, particularly the older biographies; this has been brought to the attention of both the current Editor and Editor-designate as being the cause of all of these errors and ommissions being repeated in printed publication, including ironically those of Oxford University Press, eg the Darwin family, where 13 biographies have a grand total of 12 authors. [The Editor-designate badly needs to address these issues most urgently.]"

This is a serious problem, one which both OUP and ODNB are already well of, ODNB cannot be seen to be "fit for purpose" if and when individual biographies contain errors/ommissions; for example one famous author's biography contains no reference to her having killed her husband, and committing suicide; both facts having been in the public domain since 2000 when her biography was published!

<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 12:52, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

 * I've removed this both here and on the DNB article. If we're going to discuss a "recent analytical examination", we have to be able to cite it. We can't simply refer to a study without any details by which the reader can assess its validity or relevance; you clearly have some knowledge of this, so please make sure it's published somewhere so we can figure out how best to include it. Andrew Gray (talk) 13:10, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:David Cannadine


text:
thar

Adverb

 * 1) * 1849, Dr. M.F. Stephenson, assayor at the Mint at Lumpkin Court House, Dahlonega, Georgia :
 * Thar's gold in them thar hills.
 * Thar's gold in them thar hills.

Etymology
From, with a similar sense development in other Indo-European languages.

Verb

 * 1) to add ferment (to milk)

Etymology 1
From, , from , from. Cognate with 🇨🇬; 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬. Compare 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬. of.

Preposition

 * 1) over
 * 2) above
 * 3) over, across
 * 4) by, past; through
 * 5) beyond
 * 6) more than
 * 1) beyond
 * 2) more than
 * 1) more than
 * 1) more than

Derived terms
See also Category:Irish phrasal verbs formed with "thar"

Etymology
From, from.

Adverb

 * 1) there

Etymology
From, from.

Adverb

 * 1) there

Etymology
From, from , from. Cognate with 🇨🇬; Latin, English , 🇨🇬. Compare 🇨🇬.

Preposition

 * 1)  over, across
 * 2) beyond
 * 1) beyond

Usage notes

 * In standard register, is more commonly used.

Etymology 1
From.

Verb

 * 1) to vex

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: thar


text:
Talk:The Herald (Ireland)

Year of foundation/contributors
Anyone with any information regarding the year this newspaper was founded, if they could please add that to the infobox it would be appreciated.

Also, any additions to the contributor list would be great! NaLaochra 13:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Inaccurate sentence
"It has been cited on numerous occasions for producing inaccurate, exaggerated and sensationalist stories". I personally can't stand the Herald, but in the interests of truth I would point out that this sentence links to a website which merely denies a single story published in the Herald. It doesn't link to anything that proves that the Herald has a reputation for being relentlessly inaccurate and exaggerated. I am going to have to recast the sentence - relucantly, because like I say, I think that the paper is a miserable rag, but nevertheless we can't have reckless accusations like this in an actual WP article. Lexo (talk) 17:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Merger with Metro
"On 10 October 2005, a free version of the Evening Herald, published in the mornings and entitled Herald AM, began distribution, as a defensive measure against the Daily Mail and General Trust-owned Metro, launched on the same date. It joined with another morning freesheet Metro to become the Metro Herald."

Surely it joined with the SAME Metro newspaper (owned by the DM&GT) to become the Metro Herald? There definitely were not two freesheets called Metro. Can anyone confirm and correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:The Herald (Ireland)


text:
Portal:Particle physics

Welcome to the Wikiversity Institute of Particle Physics Part of the School of Physics Physics is the science of the natural world. It deals with the fundamental constituents of the universe, the forces they exert on one another, and the results produced by these forces.

Things you can do
What I think would be useful is to create "study guides" for each of the major physics topics. These wouldn't be textbooks, but rather pages with hints, links, and helpful advice for studying each topic. Anything that would be textbook related could be put into wikitext and linked in from here.

What I'd like to see is to have pages that would be of interest of and useful to people that are studying physics in traditional academia, and this would help build a community of people working on Wikiversity.

I've created some study guide pages with links to OCW. Please add your own links and also comments for things that you learn when studying that topic.

How about syllabi? These would include assigned textbook readings, problem sets, links to their solutions.

Subdivisions and departments
Like divisions, subdivisions and departments are pages in the Topic namespace) and their names start with the "Topic:" prefix. Individual departments can be used by multiple schools. Schools that use (link to) the same department should cooperate to develop the department. Subdivisions are used by large divisions to help organize related departments. Not all divisions have subdivisions. If you need a subdivision in your division, you can use the Template:Subdivision boilerplate template to start a subdivision.
 * General
 * Elementary Particle Physics
 * Nuclear Physics
 * Experimental
 * CP Violation experiments
 * Particle detectors
 * High Energy Physics Centers - explore all existing facilities around the world
 * Software and databases
 * Theoretical
 * Collider phenomenology
 * Symmetry breaking and super symmetry
 * Higgs bosons
 * Models beyond the Standard Model
 * String theory
 * Early universe cosmology

Active participants
The histories of Wikiversity pages indicate who the active participants are. If you are an active participant in this division, you can list your name here (this can help small divisions grow and the participants communicate better; for large divisions a list of active participants is not needed).

 * Sojourner001 - Soon-to-be third year student of pure physics, Reading, UK. I have no more knowledge than one might expect from an undergraduate but I can contribute to making things comprehensible and straightforward for someone of my level. Sojourner001 15:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

 * The Winged Self - Well I can help with basic stuff. I've taken two years of (non-calc) physics, got a 5 on the AP physics test, a 5 on the AP calc BC test, and a 790 on the SAT II physics test.  I'm best at kinematics and thermodynamics.  I'll do my best!  It'll be exciting to see how this all develops.  --The Winged Self 02:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Hypermorphism - I can help out with the calculus-based physics (it is the natural language for physics; algebra gets a bit hand-wavy) as that's how I learned basic physics. While I have a basic knowledge of the fields of modern physics (and classical relativity) so that I can read most arXiv papers with some understanding, I'm not really an expert in any of them. I'm currently trying to get into the Lagrangian and Hamiltonian reformulations of classical mechanics. If there were a course on this as well, that would be great! It is frequently assumed that one has studied these forms when trying to learn quantum mechanics from texts.

 * Roadrunner - Ph.D. in numerical astrophysics. Right now trying to put together a physics degree plan.  What I work on is basically up to you, so leave a message on my talk page if you want me to do something.

 * HappyCamper - Quantum mechanics. I'm really excited about the possibilities here!

 * Reuvenk - Basic physics. Highschool grad with two years of calculus physics, so I can help with the fairly simple stuff. Can't promise to be too active, though.

 * M. Duprey - Theoretical and Applied Nuclear Physics. I am a nuclear specialist, worked for the International Organization for Nuclear Physics, participated extensively on DOD projects for nuclear propulsion in aerospace applications. I can help with anything you want to know related to that subject. I also can work on any mathematical level that you want.

 * Z. Whichard - I am a 3rd year undergrad student of physics at U. of Chicago. I frequently write overviews of the topics I am studying so perhaps I could work on shifting those here. For example I have sorted through dozens of quantum books collecting the best explanations and interpretations from each--ones that have the most mathematical rigor and the least amount of hand waving. I am no math whiz but I enjoy learning new procedures in order to fact check. I am also interested in the philosophical interpretations of modern physics and am a firm believer in the distinction that should be made between arguments with a strictly scientific foundation and those propounded by materialists. I believe popular physics spends too much time trying to 'Wow' the layman, sacrificing science for eye-catching interpretations and straw man theories and believe every attempt should be made here to keep things accurate and interesting without resorting to such devices.

 * SBL - Quantum Physics, Quantum Mechanics. I am a physics engineer and now, I am PhD student of physics. Mainly i'm studying condensed matter subjects, but i can help in the area of quantum physics for this institute.

 * Hillgentleman 06:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC) Algebra.

 * Massimamanno - Italy, M.S. in physics, incomplete Ph.D. course (did not finish thesis for complicated in part bureaucratic reasons). Expert in foundations of quantum mechanics, familiar with many other fields, my current job is teaching physics and mathematics in high school.

 * mickyfitz13 In my second year of A-level Physics and hoping to do a BSci Physics course or a MSci course in Queens University. I also currently do Maths and ICT at A-level. 19:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Lily - Graduate student in Accelerator Physics at University of Oxford, UK. I can work on core undergraduate physics subjects together with particle physics and colliders.--Lily 17:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Fubwubs Currently working towards Ph.D. in quantum. New to Wiki-sites in general, but happy to share what I know! (and hopefully learn something too) Fubwubs (discuss • contribs) 04:52, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Institute news

 * August 17, 2006 - Institute founded!

Degree plans
School:Physics/Bachelor of Science - This is intended as a "howto guide" which will let you get an accreditted degree in physics that would make you eligible for physics graduate school admission.

Learning projects

 * Why 10 dimensions - participants explore why it has been suggested that the universe might have 10 dimensions.

Lesson plans

 * Introductory physics
 * Introduction to physics
 * Basic kinematics
 * Basic thermodynamics
 * Physics teaching

 * Table of Physical Constants - a handy set of tables for finding a variety of physical constants
 * Units, significant figures, and standard procedures - A handout for properly applying physics concepts to real world measurements. Students should read this as a prerequisite to lab activities and experiments.
 * Feynman diagrams

Get to work writing lessons! Simply make a link to the name of the lesson (lessons are independent pages) and start writing!

Courses

 * Statistical mechanics
 * Special relativity (MIT), Special relativity and steps towards general relativity
 * Mathematical Methods in Physics
 * Quantum mechanics I
 * Classical mechanics
 * Chaos theory

Research projects

 * There is discussion of Wikiversity research policy at the multi-lingual Wikiversity hub.

 * Proposed Learning project: Theory of Everything Project - student research projects involving public databases for particle physics experiments.
 * Proposed Research project: Theory of Everything (From Scratch) Project.

Resources
Know any good resources for scholars of this topic? Add them here!
 * Physics Today - Cool physics magazine
 * John Baez's Stuff. Accessed August 21, 2006. - This page is a treasure trove of aspects of modern physics for the physical sciences or mathematics student. Baez covers the cutting edge physics world with ease and he has lots of archived goodies and links.
 * Resources from other wikimedia pages
 * Particle physics
 * http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast123/lectures/lec07.html

Related news

 * March 14, 2007 - CERN's latests and greatest atom smasher to date will start operating in late 2007. Now outdated!

title: Portal:Particle physics


text:
Bruno Figliola

Bruno Figliola (born 8 June 1938) is an Italian field hockey player. He competed in the men's tournament at the 1960 Summer Olympics.

title: Bruno Figliola


text:
reintegration

Noun

 * 1) The process of reintegrating.

Translations

 * Belarusian: рэінтэгра́цыя
 * Catalan:
 * Dutch:
 * French:
 * Galician:
 * Italian: reintegrazione
 * Polish:
 * Russian:
 * Spanish:
 * Ukrainian: реінтегра́ція

title: reintegration


text:
Talk:Phil Orsi

Velvet lounge. 63rd and California, Chicago.
Spent many a night with Phil and the band. They were the premier house band at the Velvet for several years. They could cover anyone and had a good time doing it. John Trocki <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 19:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Phil Orsi


text:
LPI Linux Certification/LPI-101 Exercises results

Configure Fundamental BIOS Settings
To show the amount of physical RAM available:

free

or

cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemTotal

Which are the devices that are sharing an interrupt line?

cat /proc/interrupts | more

How many PCI buses and bridges are there?

lspci | wc -l

Are there any PCI/ISA bridges?

lspci | grep 'PCI\|ISA'

What is the option with lspci to list all the Intel PCI devices?

lspci -d 8086:*

What is the command to set you IDE hard drive in read only mode?

hdparm -r1

What is the command to turn on/off the disk cache hard drive?

hdparm -W1    hdparm -W0

What does the setpci utility do?

setpci is a utility for querying and configuring PCI devices.

What would be the command to write a word in register N of a PCI device?

setpci -s 12:3.4 N.W=1 .

Design hard disk layout
To display periodically the virtual memory usage:

vmstat -n 1

Make and install programs from source
What steps should you follow to compile and install a program from source? ./configure make make install

Use Debian package management
To see what will be installed on your computer, use the command: dpkg -c package_name.deb If the package is already installed, you can see also what files were installed: dpkg -L package_name

dpkg-reconfigure

Use Red Hat Package Manager (RPM)
To see what will be installed on your computer, use the command: rpm -qpl package_name.rpm

Working on the command line
 Get information on the useradd and userdel commands.

man useradd

man userdel

Assuming you have $PAGER set to less; Use SPACE to advance by one page, B to go back.

'' Create two new accounts user1 and user2 and set the passwords to those accounts with the passwd command. As root lock the accounts and check if you can still log in.''

 What is the command to concatenate files?

cat file1 file2

'' Declare and Initialize the following environment variables NAME and LASTNAME. Use echo to print them out.''

set NAME="Joe"

set LASTNAME="Bloggs"

echo "$NAME $LASTNAME"

Start a new bash (type bash) and check that you can still see those declared variables. No

'' Use exec to start a new bash session. Can you still see those declared variables?'' Yes

 Use date to display the month.

 Add a new user named notroot with root's rights and lock the root account.GNU and UNIX Commands

This is a trick question. The only account with root privileges is the one with a UID of zero. One could alter /etc/passwd so that “root” is called something else, which would have the a similar effect; the account “root” would no longer exist. With the possible exception of translation to a foreign language, I can’t see the point in doing this. You could set the SUID bit on all files on the file system for that authentic “Redmond style" security but again, why would you want to?

Process text streams using filters
1. Use wildcard characters and list all filenames that contain any character followed by 'in' in the /etc directory. ls /etc/in*

2. Use wildcard characters and list all filenames that start with any character between 'a' and 'e' that have at least two more characters and do not end with a number. ls [a-e]?*[!0-9] 3. Use wildcard characters and list all filenames of exactly 4 characters and all filenames starting with an uppercase letter. Do not descend into any directory found. ls -d [A-Z]??? 4. Use wildcard characters and list all files that contain 'sh' in /bin. 5. Display your environment variable HOME preceded by the string "$HOME value is:" 6. Display the contents of $SHELL with two asterisk characters before and after it. 7. How would you display the following string of characters as is with echo using double quote and \. * @ # $ % ^ & * ' " \   8. Compose echo commands to display the following two strings:          * That's what he said!          * 'Never Again!' he replied.   9. Display the number of words in all files that begin with the letter 'h' in the /etc directory.  10. How would you send a 2M (megabyte) file with two 1.44 M floppy. How would you put back together the split file?  11. What is the command to translate the : delimiter in /etc/password by #?          cat /etc/password | tr ":" "#"

Perform basic file management
1. Compose an interactive command to remove all .tmp files in your home directory. Respond y to every prompt.

rm -i ~/*.tmp

2. List all the files in the user's home directories ending with .pdf that are bigger than 50 blocks and have not been accessed for a month.

find /home -name "*.pdf" -atime +30 -size +50 -print

3. Create a file file.h that will contain all the filenames ending with .h found in the /usr directory.

find /usr -name "*.h" > file.h

4. Do a touch on all the c files found in /usr/src/packages directory. 5. What are the default permissions when you create a new file and a new directory? new file --> 644 new directory --> 755

6. How would you create a new file or directory that contains a space in the filename? (Example: 'new dir') touch new\ file.txt mkdir new\ dir 7. What is the command to remove all the files of types char and block in your home directory?

8. How would you find the location of the program find? 9. Delete all files in /tmp which are not owned by root and have not been accessed for a week.

Use streams, pipes, and redirects
1. Create a file list.bin that will contain all the file names from the /bin directory. ls /bin > list.bin 2. Write a command that will append the list of files from /usr/local/bin to the file named list.bin and discard any error output. ls /usr/local/bin >> list.bin 2>/dev/null 3. Split your list.bin file into files that are 50 lines long and remove list.bin. split -l 50 list.bin rm -f list.bin 4. From the split files recreate list.bin (but with inversed order). cat xab xaa > list.bin 7. Write a command that will create a file list.sbin with the contents of /sbin and at the same time display it to standard output. ls /sbin | tee sbin.txt 8. Create a file that within the filename you include the creation time. ls -l /sbin > `date +%d_%m_%y.txt` '''9. Create a file that will contain all the filenames in reverse order with extension .conf from the /etc directory. ls *.conf''' ls /etc/*\.conf > first.txt tac first.conf > end_list.txt rm -f first.txt

Create, monitor, and kill processes
1. How can you control CPU usage for PID 3196 top -p 3196 renice -20 3196

Perform basic file editing operations using vi
All of the vi commands below must of course be entered in command mode.

 * 1) vi foo
 * 2) Most frequently one would use i, but there are other ways of getting into command mode.
 * 3) ZZ
 * 4) vi foo
 * 5) o opens a new line beneath the cursor position and drops you into command mode.  i puts you directly into command mode without making the new line, so o is more efficient.
 * 6) press esc to get out of command mode</tt>
 * 7) <tt>:q!</tt>

Manage file ownership
1.

chmod u=rwx,g=rwx,o=rx chmod u=rwx,g=r,o=r chmod u=r,g=r,o= chmod u=rwx,g=rx,o=rx chmod u=rwx,g=rx,o=rx chmod u=rx,g=x,o=x chmod u=w,g=r,o=x chmod u=,g=,o= chmod u=,g=x,o=rwx

2.

chmod 777 chmod 111 chmod 421 chmod 200 chmod 640 chmod 711

3.

umaskː   0   0   2   7 binaryː  000 000 010 111 ̃invertedː 111 111 101 000

File permissionsː Logically AND with 0666

̃inverted maskː      111 111 101 000 default permissionsː 000 110 110 110 result of ANDː      000 110 100 000 result in octalː    0   6   4   0 resulting permissionsː  rw- r-- ---

Directory permissionsː Locically AND with 0777

̃inverted maskː      111 111 101 000 default permissionsː 000 111 111 111 result of ANDː      000 111 101 000 result in octalː    0   7   5   0 resulting permissionsː  rwx r-x ---

umaskː   0   0   1   1 binaryː  000 000 001 001 ̃invertedː 111 111 110 110

File permissionsː Logically AND with 0666

̃inverted maskː      111 111 110 110 default permissionsː 000 110 110 110 result of ANDː      000 110 110 110 result in octalː    0   6   6   6 resulting permissionsː  rw- rw- rw-

Directory permissionsː Locically AND with 0777

̃inverted maskː      111 111 110 110 default permissionsː 000 111 111 111 result of ANDː      000 111 110 110 result in octalː    0   7   6   6 resulting permissionsː  rwx rw- rw-

umaskː   0   5   4   1 binaryː  000 101 100 001 ̃invertedː 111 010 011 110

File permissionsː Logically AND with 0666

̃inverted maskː      111 010 011 110 default permissionsː 000 110 110 110 result of ANDː      000 010 010 110 result in octalː    0   2   2   6 resulting permissionsː  -w- -w- rw-

Directory permissionsː Locically AND with 0777

̃inverted maskː      111 010 011 110 default permissionsː 000 111 111 111 result of ANDː      000 010 011 110 result in octalː    0   2   3   6 resulting permissionsː  -w- -wx rw-

umaskː   0   7   7   7 binaryː  000 111 111 111 ̃invertedː 111 000 000 000

File permissionsː Logically AND with 0666

̃inverted maskː      111 000 000 000 default permissionsː 000 110 110 110 result of ANDː      000 000 000 000 result in octalː    0   0   0   0 resulting permissionsː  --- --- ---

Directory permissionsː Locically AND with 0777

̃inverted maskː      111 000 000 000 default permissionsː 000 111 111 111 result of ANDː      000 000 000 000 result in octalː    0   0   0   0 resulting permissionsː  --- --- ---

Create and change hard and symbolic links
1. mkdir ~/etc ~/bin 2. cp -r /etc/* ~/etc/ cp -r /etc/ ~/ rsync -a /etc/ ~/etc/
 * or
 * or

2. find -name '*.conf' -exec mv {} {}.bak \; rename 's/\.conf/\.conf\.bak/' *.conf
 * 1) recursive variant using find
 * 1) non recursive variant using rename

4. ln -s ~/bin/ls ~/dir ~/dir

5. rm ~/dir unlink ~/dir
 * or

The ~/bin/ls file gets lost in neither of the cases.

Install & Customize a Window Manager Environment
Solution des exercices (LPIC101)


text:
Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 September 12

= September 12 =

Term used for masculine concrete objects similar to la que es?
Is there a term used for masculine concrete objects similar to la que es? I don't know if I can write like this.

 * El sombrero, lo que es muy bonito, está en la cabeza de Andrés.
 * The hat, which is very beautiful, is on Andrew's head.

By the way, can I translate names too? <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 03:16, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I don't think lo que means "which".  I think it means "the one which".   See September 8.   Portuguese also has the construction a qual or o qual and I would be surprised if Spanish doesn't have something similar.   Example:

"a revolução, que acaba de suceder em Portugal; a qual deve necessariamente produzir intimas relaçoens entre a nação Ingleza e os novos estabelecimentos dos Portuguezes."

[the revolution, which has just taken place in Portugal; which must necessarily produce intimate relations between the English nation and the new institutions of the Portuguese].

The grammar is here:. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 10:32, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * In Spanish, the masculine counterpart of "la que es" is "el que es". Also, "los que son", "las que son". —Stephen (talk) 20:25, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * So in English you would say "he who is", "she who is", "the one which is", "they who are", "those which are".  In Spanish you would use the masculine or feminine pronoun for an inanimate object depending on its grammatical gender.   If there is more than one and the genders are different use the masculine (that's not a sexist comment, it's just the way the system works). <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 10:16, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * While "el que es" is grammatically correct, it does not sound too natural, IMO. A better translation would be "El sombrero, el cual es muy bonito, está en la cabeza de Andrés." –FlyingAce✈hello 16:33, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Peeking in my Spanish dictionary I see that lo que means "what".  Example: Lo que dijiste fue una tontería [What you said was foolish].   It also means "which".   Example: Todo estaba en silencio, lo que (or lo qual) me pareció muy raro [All was silent, which I thought most odd].   There's a related discussion at Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 September 8   I wouldn't say that lo is rare, as suggested in that discussion.   The construction el que, la que, los que, las que apparently means "the one(s) who" or "the one(s) which".   Example: Los que quieran entrar tendrán que pagar [Those who wish to enter have to pay]. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 13:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Translation from German needed
Hi there, how would a native speaker say "Wir waren für heute verabredet" – referring to an informal agreement to make a phone call (!) – in English? Greetings,--Tuchiel (talk) 17:37, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I'd suggest You were going to call me (or, less likely, I was going to call you). HenryFlower 06:41, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Or perhaps more literally We were going to have a phone call? —Tamfang (talk) 20:20, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I know it's not a reliable mirror of how people actually speak, but a Google search suggests that you are the first person ever to use that phrase. :) I'd agree, though, that my version isn't so much a translation as an equivalent phrase. HenryFlower 08:17, 17 September 2017 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Anurognathus

Untitled
This article is fairly accurat and I put a reference in too verifyEnlil Ninlil 03:34, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Eye position
Where was the eyes placed? On most reconstructions I've seen, the eyes are small and behind the biggest hole in the skull, don't know what it's called, like here:. But DiBgd has drawn it with the eye in the biggest hole, while using this as reference: So eh, which one is correct? FunkMonk (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * DiBgd looks correct, using the Bennett skull. The skull of Anurognathus was only known as squashed, incomplete specimens until recently, and it's a weird-looking skull.  The antorbital fenestra is actually small and shifted to the front in a very wide, short skull. J. Spencer (talk) 15:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Ah ok. That would probably be nice to have mentioned in the article somehow... FunkMonk (talk) 15:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like the specimen is published, but it's in one of the German journals that don't get out my way very often. J. Spencer (talk) 15:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Etymology
The article states that the name means "without tail jaw", "in reference to its unusually small tail relative to other "rhamphorhynchoid" (i.e. basal) pterosaurs", and cites a popular encyclopedia. Will have to track down the original paper, but surely, this was named in reference to Anura due to the similarity of the skull with a frog...? Dinoguy2 (talk) 22:51, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree; compare the closely related genus Batrachognathus. And the ref cited for that claim doesn't say anything about why it's called Anurognathus; all the ref says is that the Latin means "tailless jaw," end of story. So I'll fix the article. --Quuxplusone (talk) 03:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Accuracy
I have a book, Michael Benton’s Dinosaurs: New Visions of a Lost World, which depicts Anuroghathus quite differently, much more bat-like. I feel that this inaccuracy should be mentioned on this page and any page it is used on, thought i doubt said book is enough of a citation. I’ve removed the image for nowMRN2electricboogaloo (talk) 01:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * There is quite a bit of leeway in how to depict most prehistoric animals, so one restoration looking different doesn't mean the one we have is inaccurate, and I'll put it back. This restoration shows hair-like covering as well, which is bat-like already. FunkMonk (talk) 11:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Anurognathus


text:
xanh

Etymology 1
.

Adjective

 * 1) grue
 * 2)  green sickly, unwell
 * 3)  green unripe
 * 4)  youthfully black
 * 1)  green sickly, unwell
 * 2)  green unripe
 * 3)  youthfully black
 * 1)  youthfully black

Usage notes

 * Xanh lá cây or xanh lục become clunky when overused. Most of the time, simply xanh is clear enough, and and  can be used when necessary avoid confusion.

Etymology 2
.

Noun

 * 1) wok

title: xanh


text:
User:Mr.Dog0/sandbox

Hello there welcome to the awesome MrDog0, Jk, I'm on a quest to become a great wikipedia person. ___________                                                                                |   hi      | |          |                                                                                |           |     hello                                                                                |           | |___________|

title: User:Mr.Dog0/sandbox


text:
Dan Holowaychuk

Dan Holowaychuk (born September 22, 1962) is a Canadian curler from St. Albert, Alberta.

He is a three-time  and a four-time Tim Hortons Brier champion  as the alternate on the legendary "Ferbey Four" team.

As of 2002, he was employed as a business development manager. Earlier in his career he was a salesman for Catelli pasta.

title: Dan Holowaychuk


text:
soccus

Etymology
From, probably from , , or another language from Asia Minor.

Noun

 * , a kind of slipper particularly worn by comedic actors
 * 1)  comedy

Descendants

 * Italo-Dalmatian
 * Rhaeto-Romance
 * West Iberian
 * Rhaeto-Romance
 * West Iberian
 * Rhaeto-Romance
 * West Iberian
 * Rhaeto-Romance
 * West Iberian
 * Rhaeto-Romance
 * West Iberian
 * West Iberian

title: soccus


text:
Talk:Bristol Bath Road depot

Bristol Bath Road Steam Locomotive Enginemen
I have just purchased a British Transport Commission Handbook for Railway Steam Locomotive enginemen and on the inside cover is says bristol bath Road and the number 227,we were wondering if this number was allocated to the person who owned the book.We would love to find out anything at all about the book and its owner.Thank you. Graham and Vicki Wilson — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 12:55, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 3.7 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for discussion on how to improve the Bristol Bath Road Traction Maintenance Depot article. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:52, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Bristol Bath Road depot. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928010451/http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.5540 to http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.5540

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:48, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bristol Bath Road depot


text:
valinta

Noun

 * 1) selection process or act of selecting
 * 2) selection something selected
 * 3) choice option or decision that one chooses or has chosen
 * 4) volition conscious choice or decision
 * 5) choice, trade-off
 * 1) choice, trade-off

title: valinta


text:
Talk:Yoga the Iyengar Way/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 17:17, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for taking this on. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:35, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Comments
 * A two-sentence lead is a little too short for me. I'd look to get one or two sentences covering each major section of the article in there.
 * Done.

 * "yoga teachers Silva, Mira, and Shyam Mehta." I would repeat their surnames just in case there's some confusion that they may just have single word names?
 * Done.

 * Perhaps the lead could introduce them as "Silva Mehta, and her children..."?
 * Done.

 * "problems practice remedial yoga" shouldn't that be practise?
 * Done.

 * "from Mr. Iyengar from" Mr? We don't normally do that.
 * Removed.

 * Where is Mira's date of birth referenced? In fact, is it important?  Neither Silva nor Shyam's are mentioned?
 * Removed.

 * Check refs are sufficiently populated, e.g. for online sources, either a publication date or an accessdate as well as title and publisher/work.
 * Parameters filled in.

 * The Topics covered section is a little odd aesthetically, perhaps bullet point the sections instead of have all those separate tiny paras?
 * Done.

 * "a short introduction to yoga in" can't believe that's the first point at which you could link generic yoga.
 * Linked earlier.

 * "asana" is linked in the previous section.
 * Removed link.

 * So is pranayama.
 * Removed link.

 * "The book is in a large format (215 x 275 mm, close to A4 size), " firstly convert to Imperial, and secondly, does this apply to both the original print and the 2006 reprint?
 * Converted, and yes.

 * "get a double-page" a little colloquial, perhaps "are featured on a ..."?
 * Edited.

 * Could link Postage stamps and postal history of India or List of postage stamps of India?
 * Linked.

That's all I have on this at the moment, interesting read, thanks. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 15:11, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Great, all looking in order, I juggled some of the last section around to keep reviews together. One thing niggling me, the footnotes, some of them could be reused if that's possible, i.e. MMM1 and MMM3 are the same, similarly MMM10, MMM11 and MMM12 are the same.  It looks a little odd to see those repeated... The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 18:55, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Refs merged. : Many thanks for the review! Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:05, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Great, nice work, happy to pass this now. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Yoga the Iyengar Way/GA1


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/newnightescorts.com/

Links

 * newnightescorts.com/ resolves to [//X X]
 * newnightescorts.com/ is hosted on newnightescorts.com
 * newnightescorts.com resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the domainredlist.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is blacklisted by escort on [//nl.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mediawiki:Spam-blacklist nl.wikibooks.org]
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is blacklisted by escort on [//nl.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mediawiki:Spam-blacklist nl.wikibooks.org]

Users
No users found.

Additions
No additions recorded.


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Craig Roger Gregerson

Craig Roger Gregerson
non notable criminal and crime TruthCrusader 15:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


text:
Talk:POSSLQ

"POSSSLQ" variant
A similar version is POSSSLQ meaning Persons Of Same Sex Sharing Living Quarters. This has been an acronym used by insurance companies to describe same-sex living arrangements.

"PASSLQ" variant
I've occasionally seen people suggest "PASSLQ" (where the A stands for "appropriate") as a gender-blind version of this acronym. Compared to other suggestions, "PASSLQ" causes the fewest difficulties:

 * 1) It is easier to distinguish from the original acronym, both in speech and in writing; the extra S makes "POSSSLQ" look and sound like a typo, even if the letters are named separately.
 * 2) It is consistent with the original acronym (which doesn't abbreviate the "of" either). A consistent version of the same-sex counterpart would read "PSSSLQ": in addition to the "apparent typo" problem, "PSSSLQ" suggests the word "piss" when pronounced as as an acronym.
 * 3) It does not reveal the first partner's sexual orientation or the second one's gender: the "appropriate" sex for a live-in lover varies from person to person.

--Ingeborg S. Nordén 15:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Different POSSLQ Expansion
The version that I have always been familiar with has been 'Person Of Significance Sharing Living Quarters', which is also nicely gender-blind, but I'm not sure when or where it originated. Ghoti (talk) 17:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Ambiguous "the term"
Are these two sentences about the same term, as their juxtaposition suggests?
 * The category "unmarried partner" first appeared in the 1990 Census, and was incorporated into the monthly Current Population Survey starting in 1995. By the late 1990s, the term had fallen out of general usage, and returned to being a specialized term for demographers.

Was "unmarried partner" a short-lived term, or has it supplanted POSSLQ? --<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 06:28, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Think "POSSLQ" -- it had 15 minutes of relative media fame in the 1980s, but a lower level of popular awareness since then. AnonMoos (talk) 13:54, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Ambiguous
Does the term specifically mean an unmarried partner? Or is a spouse a POSSLQ just as well? The article doesn't make it clear. Of the sources, only Dictionary.com comments on the matter; not sure if we can count on this. Furthermore, from that definition, it would seem that a simple housemate (such as in a group of students or friends living together) who happens to be of the other gender is a POSSLQ, which is contradictory with the implication here. — Smjg (talk) 22:22, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:POSSLQ


text:
Italian/Grammar/Nouns

Gender
Italian nouns are either masculine or feminine.

As a general rule (with a few exceptions), male human beings are associated to masculine nouns; female human beings are associated to feminine nouns. Collective nouns, referring to a group of human beings of both genders, are usually masculine.

Examples: Attore (actor) is masculine. (è maschile) Attrice (actress) is feminine. (è femminile) Maestro (male teacher) is masculine. Maestra (female teacher) is feminine. Bambini (children, a group of little boys) is masculine Bambini (children, a mixed group of little boys and girls) is masculine Bambine (children, a group of little girls) is feminine

Exceptions (example): Persona (person - man or woman) is feminine

Animals and things may be masculine or feminine, but there is no clear rule for this association. When you learn a new word, you should learn whether it is masculine or feminine.

Examples: Pietra (stone) is feminine. Sasso (also stone) is masculine. Topo (mouse) is masculine. Volpe (fox) is feminine.

The basic rule is that masculine singular nouns end with -o, feminine singular nouns end with -a. Most words follow this form, but this is not always the case.

 * Masculine singular nouns can end in -a (rare)
 * Feminine singular nouns can end in -o (rare)
 * Both masculine and feminine nouns can end with -e
 * Nouns ending in -à are always feminine
 * Nouns ending in -è are always masculine
 * Nouns ending in -i and in -ù are usually feminine
 * Nouns ending in -ione are usually feminine
 * Nouns ending in -mma are usually Greek in origin and masculine

Examples Uomo (man) is masculine. Donna (woman) is feminine. Mano (hand) is feminine. Programma (program) is masculine. Cane (dog) is masculine. Pace (peace) is feminine. Città (town) is feminine. Crisi (crisis) is feminine. Virtù (virtue) is feminine.

Plural
In Italian, nouns are pluralized by a change in the last vowel.

In short:
 * Nouns ending with -a are pluralized with -e if feminine (most common) or with -i if masculine.
 * Nouns ending with -e or -o are pluralized with -i.
 * Nouns ending with a stressed vowel, with -i or -u or with a consonant are invariant, the plural is the same as the singular.

Every case:
 * Feminine in -a, plural in -e
 * Feminine in -e, plural in -i
 * Feminine in -o, plural in -i
 * Feminine in -ie, plural in -ie
 * Feminine in -i, plural also in -i
 * Masculine in -a, plural in -i
 * Masculine in -o, plural in -i (rarely, plural in -a; see Special Plurals below)
 * Masculine in -e, plural in -i

A basic example: [Il] ragazzo (boy) is masculine singular. - [I] ragazzi is the plural form. [La] ragazza (girl) is feminine singular. - [Le] ragazze is the plural form.

Other examples: [Il] programma (program, masculine). Plural: [i] programmi. [La] mano (hand, feminine). Plural: [le] mani. [Il] cane (dog, masculine). Plural: [i] cani. [La] canzone (song, feminine). Plural: [le] canzoni. [La] crisi (crisis, feminine). Plural: [le] crisi. [La] città (town, feminine). Plural: [le] città. [Il] caffè (coffee, masculine). Plural: [i] caffè. [La] virtù (virtue, feminine). Plural: [le] virtù. [Il] gas (gas). Plural: [i] gas.

Warning. In some cases, plural feminine forms can be mistaken for singular masculine forms.

Example of confusing forms. [Il] signore (mister) is masculine singular. - [I] signori is the plural form. [La] signora (mrs) is feminine singular. - [Le] signore is the plural form.

The problem here is that "signore" can refer to both one man or two (or more) women. This problem is usually solved by taking the article into account.

Special plurals
A number of masculine nouns ending in -o have special plurals ending in -a; these special plurals switch to feminine gender. They are a remnant of the old Latin neutral gender.

Examples of plurals in -a: [Il] braccio (arm, masculine). Plural: [le] braccia (feminine) [L'] uovo (egg, masculine). Plural: [le] uova (feminine)

Very few nouns have irregular plurals.

Irregular plurals (example): Uomo (man), plural: uomini

Some nouns are invariant (the plural is the same as the singular) even if they end in -a, -e or -o. These nouns are usually originated by a shortening of longer names.

 Invariant plurals i -a, -e or -o (example): [La] moto (short for motocicletta) (motorcycle). Plural: [le] moto

Nouns ending with i+vowel in some cases miss one i in the plural (a rule for masculine nouns).

Examples of plurals for nouns in -ia, -io: Camicia (shirt, fem.). Plural: camicie Doccia (shower, fem.). Plural: docce Arancia (orange, fem.). Plural: arance Inizio (start, masc.). Plural: inizi Negozio (shop, masc.). Plural: negozi Raggio (ray, masc.). Plural: raggi

Masculine nouns ending with -co, -go can have plurals ending with -chi, -ghi or -ci, -gi. Feminine nouns ending with -ca, -ga usually have plurals ending with -che, -ghe.

Examples of plurals for nouns in -co, -go, -ca, -ga: Amico (friend, masc.). Plural: amici Arco (arch, masc.). Plural: archi Lago (lake, masc.). Plural: laghi Medico (physician, masc.). Plural: medici Amica (friend, fem.). Plural: amiche Barca (boat, fem.). Plural: barche Targa (plate, fem.). Plural: targhe

Particular cases -cia and -gia Words ending with either -cia and -gia respect the following rule.

Plural ends with -cie/-gie if the final letter before the suffix(cia/gia) is a vowel Plural ends with -ce/-ge if the final letter before the suffix is a consonant

If the stress falls on the i, the i always remains so, for instance, -cia makes the plural with -cie.

Italienisch/ Substantiv Italiano/Sustantivos Italiano/Nome

title: Italian/Grammar/Nouns


text:
User:VapidlyYours/sandbox

Amy Demboski (born September 6, 1976) is an Alaskan politician. Amy graduated from Chugiak High School in 1994 and went on to earn Bachelor degrees in Justice and History from UAA, as well as an MBA, with an emphasis in Finance, from Columbia Southern University. Amy and her husband, Ben have two children; their daughter, Kennedy, is a 2014 graduate of Chugiak High School and son, Riley, is a freshman at Chugiak High. Amy currently serves on the Anchorage Assembly and is running for Mayor of Anchorage.

title: User:VapidlyYours/sandbox


text:
In 1999

In 1999 is a 1912 one-act comedic short play by William C. deMille, originally produced by Jesse L. Lasky, that was popular upon its release. Its gags are based on a future where gender roles are reversed.

Production
The piece debuted at the Fifth Avenue Theatre on Broadway in New York City on February 5, 1912, and starred Florence Nash, Joseph W. Jefferson (son of Joseph Jefferson), and Minnette Barrett. The sketch was performed for a number of years in theatres throughout the United States.

Considered a satire of the popular problem plays of the day, the sketch is set in 1999 and portrays a world of the future where women and men have reversed roles from 1912, with husbands performing domestic chores and the women spending time at their clubs, and tells the tale of a love triangle with the typical speeches reversed by gender. It proved particularly popular with female audience members.

Lawsuits
The sketch was also popular enough to be stolen and fought over. Variety magazine reported in July 1912 that "the Meymotts" had copied the play, after Lasky has rejected an offer for the English rights, and presented it in England under the title In the Future, and also copyrighted it there first.

Iza Hampton Barnes, an actress, also sued Lasky, deMille, and the three actors, claiming In 1999 was stolen from her sketch titled The Woman of Tomorrow. DeMille's defense to Barnes' suit claimed that the gender-reversal concept existed in "numerous writings and compositions" predating 1910, and that In 1999 was first written by deMille while he was in college in 1899, and named Rollo.

title: In 1999


text:
Tony Noske

Anthony Stuart Noske (born 14 May 1951) is a former Australian motor racing driver and transport company proprietor.

Motor Racing
Having competed in sprintcars, Tony Noske entered four rounds of the 1987 Australian Touring Car Championship with a Perkins Engineering built Holden Commodore VK before contesting the Calder 300, Bathurst 1000 and Calder 500 with Garry Rush co-driving. Noske competed in six rounds of the 1988 Australian Touring Car Championship.

In 1989 he co-drove Ford Sierra RS500s for Mobil 1 Racing, Dick Johnson Racing and Glenn Seton Racing. Having taken on a managerial role with the Mobil 1 Racing team, Noske entered three rounds of the 1990 Australian Touring Car Championship. Noske's son Mark would later become a V8 Supercars driver.

Business
In 1976 Noske established Kalari Transport with three trucks in Portland, Victoria. Having expanded the business to 70 trucks, in 1994 Noske sold the business to Swire. In 2005 Noske re-entered the logistics market establishing Noske Logistics.

title: Tony Noske


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/Local/trypurenutrition.com

Links

 * trypurenutrition.com resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the domainredlist.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
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Selected additions

 * Displayed 3 additions out of 3 total.	 For more info see WikiProject_Spam/LinkReports/trypurenutrition.com

Entry
Log entry for the MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist:

\btrypurenutrition\.com\b   # ADMINNAME # see  [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Spam/Local/trypurenutrition.com ]]

Discussion
See COIBot report for more details.

New data reported. --COIBot (talk) 15:15, 18 August 2020 (UTC) No links left in here mentioned edits. Marked stale. . --COIBot (talk) 21:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


text:
1957 Kansas Jayhawks football team

The 1957 Kansas Jayhawks football team represented the University of Kansas in the Big Seven Conference during the 1957 college football season. In their fourth and final season under head coach Chuck Mather, the Jayhawks compiled a 5–4–1 record (4–2 against conference opponents), finished second in the Big Seven Conference, and were outscored by all opponents by a combined total of 230 to 115. They played two ranked teams, losing to No. 2 Oklahoma by a 47–0 score and to No. 9 Oregon State by a 34–6 score. They played their home games at Memorial Stadium in Lawrence, Kansas.

The team's statistical leaders included Homer Floyd with 505 rushing yards and 189 receiving yards and Wally Strauch with 320 passing yards. Lynn McCarthy, Wally Strauch, and Bob Kraus were the team captains.

title: 1957 Kansas Jayhawks football team


text:
Gregory Kramer

Gregory Paul Kramer (born 14 October 1952, in Los Angeles, California), is an American composer, researcher, inventor, meditation teacher and author. In 1975 he co-founded Electronic Musicmobile, a pioneer synthesizer ensemble later renamed Electronic Art Ensemble, in which Kramer was a musician and composer. His pioneering work extended to developing synthesizer and related equipment. Kramer also co-founded the not-for-profit arts organization Harvestworks in New York City. He is recognized as the founding figure of the intensely cross-disciplinary field of data sonification. Since 1980, Kramer teaches Buddhist meditation. He is credited as developer of Insight Dialogue, an interpersonal meditation practice. Kramer is the author of several books in diverse fields, as well as (co-)author of scientific papers in the field of data sonification.

Musician/composer
From 1975, Kramer was a founding member of Electronic Musicmobile, an electronic music touring ensemble. Kramer and two other players performed using only synthesizers; Kramer was the musical director and primary composer. In 1979, the personnel stabilized and the group was renamed Electronic Art Ensemble. Its line-up included Stephen Horelick, Clive Smith and Russel Dorwart. From then on, the group also used instruments other than synthesizers, modifying their sounds electronically. The aims of Electronic Musicmobile, and later the Electronic Art Ensemble, were to explore a new timbral and gestural language for music, and to expose a wider portion of the population to electronic music. To this end, the ensemble toured the Northeastern part of the United States for 6 consecutive years. Performances featured music composed by Kramer and other members of the ensemble, as well as contemporary American composers such as John Cage and Christian Wolff. In 2022, the Electronic Art Ensemble reunited and is again actively composing and recording.

Kramer scored numerous films, video, and dance performances. He scored the Emmy Award winning Henry Hudson’s River: A Biography, and Metro: Manhattan Chowder by the same production company, which won the Cine Golden Eagle and other awards.

Kramer was an Assistant Professor of Composition in the Music Department of NYU, from 1975 to 1979. In 1976, Kramer co-founded the Public Access Synthesizer Studio (PASS) in New York City, where anyone could use various contemporary synthesizers for $3 per hour. The studio also hosted seminars and performances on synthesizers and electronic music and featured a design file and tape library.

In 1977, to support PASS and its various programs, Kramer co-founded Harvestworks, a not-for-profit arts organization located in New York City dedicated to providing access to the knowledge and tools of music technology through education programs, publications, artist assistance, and music and sound art presentation projects. He remains as the Chair Emeritus of Harvestworks.

Inventor
In 1973, Kramer founded and since managed Electron Farm, a company that built and sold Buchla 100 synthesizers and custom synthesizer modules in New York City. Through his company Clarity, founded in 1981, Kramer conceived and developed the MIDI XLV, and with it helped launch the recording technique of signal process automation. Through Clarity, Kramer also conceived of and designed the Lexicon MRC (MIDI Remote Control). This product was the first MIDI remote control and fader box, now a major product category in music technology. The MRC won the 1989 TEC Award for Technical Excellence (Ancillary Equipment). Kramer collaborated closely with Robert Moog, who since 1970 had been working on a keyboard controller that would respond to human touch. In 1993, Moog reduced his involvement in the project, stating that "I've given them to Eaton and to one other artist, Gregory Kramer, an experimental composer [...]". Moog continued working with Kramer until his death in 2005,< and Kramer continues to work on the project with a team of engineers.

Science
As a member of the Santa Fe Institute, Kramer organized the first International Conference on Auditory Display in 1992. He subsequently established and became the first president of the International Community for Auditory Display (ICAD), a non-profit corporation dedicated to supporting the development of auditory display research and community formation. Kramer edited the Proceedings, which was the first book on auditory display and data sonification and remains possibly the most oft-cited publication in the field.

Buddhist teacher
Kramer has been teaching meditation worldwide since 1980. He teaches vipassana meditation, dharma contemplation, and Insight Dialogue at retreats, and in universities worldwide. In 1995 he co-founded the Metta Foundation in Portland, Oregon, a non-profit corporation dedicated to supporting the growth and development of insight meditation and the teachings of the Buddha as they manifest in our current society, and for which he functions as a meditation teacher, author, and director. In 2020, the Metta Foundation supported the formation of the Insight Dialogue Community, in which Kramer remains involved as a Founding Teacher. His meditation practice since 1974 has included studies with a number of esteemed monastics, including Anagarika Dhammadinna, Ven. Balangoda Ananda Maitreya Mahanayaka Thero, Achan Sobin S. Namto and Ven. Punnaji Mahathera.

Kramer graduated from the California Institute of the Arts (BFA, Music Composition, 1972) and New York University (MA, Music Composition, 1977). He holds a Ph.D. in Learning and Change in Human Systems from the California Institute of Integral Studies. He is married and the father of three grown sons. He lives in Orcas, Washington where he remains focused on writing, training teachers, and living a contemplative life.

Discography

 * Electronic Art Ensemble – Inquietude (1982). Gramavision – GR 7003
 * Kramer-Angus Duo — KAD (2004). Dolce Sfogato
 * Electronic Art Ensemble – Return (2024).

Patents

 * Digital Signal Processor for Providing Timbral Change in Arbitrary Audio Signals (1991)
 * Digital Signal Processor for Providing Timbral Change in Arbitrary Audio and Dynamically Controlled Stored Digital Audio Signals (1991)
 * Sonification System using Auditory Beacons as References for Comparison and Orientation in Data (1994)

title: Gregory Kramer


text:
Talk:List of Manchester City F.C. players

Errors with Danny Tiatto's stats.
Hello, According to this page, Danny Tiatto played roughly 320 games for Man.City, and scored 140-odd goals. Now, soccerbase.com says he played 158 times (including substitute appearances), and scored 4 goals. That seems a bit more plausible to me. Should I amend? Artie p 09:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I must have been using Francis Lee as a template for creating columns when I created the article, and forgot to change that one. Thanks for the spot, I've amended it. Oldelpaso 16:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Player of the Year
Is there a list of Man City player of the year somewhere? Þjóðólfr (talk) 08:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Better handling of inductees into national Halls of Fame
I would like to change the criteria for being listed in this article from the current "must have made at least 100 competitive first team appearance for the club OR have been voted Player of the Year by the fans" to "must have made at least 100 competitive first team appearance for the club OR have been voted Player of the Year by the fans OR must have been inducted into one or more of the three (MCFC, NFM or SFM) Halls of Fame." All of the 25 current MCFC HoF inductees are already on this list, as one would expect (note: to easily verify them all simply hit the sort button twice at the top of the "HoF" column), so if we extended the criteria to include just the MCFC HoF inductees nothing would change (and that is indeed another option to consider).

However, if we extend the criteria to include inductees of any of the three HoF (as I'm suggesting) then the only addition to the current list, as far as I can determine, would be Denis Law. Although he achieved the greatest portion of his football notoriety on the other side of Manchester he was hardly "chopped liver" in his two stints with the Blues. He is not the greatest nor the most iconic City player by any means, but according to the first sentence of that article, it "is a list of notable footballers who have played for Manchester City." It strikes me that Denis Law is a VERY notable footballer that has played for Manchester City (not once, but twice) so his omission from that list is a bit bizarre IMO. Your thoughts please. Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry Talk 22:10, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm neutral either way, but I think the question you should ask yourself is this: do you want to add Law because you want to change the inclusion criteria, or do you want to add a criterion so that you can add Law? While we should strive to create a list that shows all of City's notable players in general, what makes an individual player notable or not is more than a little bit POV, and while I agree with the idea that Law is a notable City player, I could make cases for other players to be added to this list that your new criterion does not solve. The danger with that is you then set a precedent for inventing new criteria every time you think someone else should be on the list, and eventually that could well boil over and turn into one of the many hundreds of arguments debates on what or who counts as worthy of adding to list. To cite just one case which I have a personal involvement in, check out how massively over-expanded List of association football club rivalries by country has become - so bloated that it has been forced into name changes twice and has been put under AfD votes several times for failing to serve its original mandate and becoming more of a data-dump - not to mention constant accusations of POV. I'm not saying that will happen, nor that it will ever get so bad as that horrible article, but that's the risk to my eyes. I won't oppose adding this criterion so long as we don't later decide that the list of criteria is still insufficient and that another 100 players should be added...
 * (This is only a reply to the firts paragraph of your comment; I will reply to the rest of your post later as time permits.) First off, let me state at the outset that I'm neutral on this topic too.  Meaning that I'm neutral on the issue of whether Law is ultimately added to this article or not.  I don't need to ask myself your suggested question because I don't have a hidden agenda here - or maybe that should be a not-so hidden agenda, or perhaps even a blatantly obvious agenda - since I am the one that clearly pointed out the consequences of changing the criteria.
 * My recent efforts WRT adding the NFM and SFM HoF information into the main MCFC article were intended, in large part, to redress a possible neutral reader's perception of a City fan bias POV behind ONLY documenting the MCFC HoF in that article. As was stated in my first post on the topic of national HoF over on the main MCFC article Talk page, I hold the view that it is more meaningful to be acknowledged at a national level by, in principle, all football fans in a country (with a corresponding induction into the NFM and/or SFM HoF) rather than to only be acknowledged by Blues-biased City fans (with a corresponding induction into just the MCFC HoF).
 * For example, if you take a player, such as Colin Bell or Francis Lee, who has been inducted in a HoF at both the club and national level, surely the much more important or significant or meaningful (I'm not certain what exactly the right word is that should be used here) of those HoF inductions is the NFM one ... because that requires the votes and appreciation of many football fans outside of just hard core Manchester City fans in order to occur. IOW, a national HoF induction implies that those players have a wide appeal to MANY football fans whose primary allegiances lie with other clubs, rather than that they just have a somewhat tautologically obvious appeal to only the hard core fans of the club (or clubs) for whom they played.
 * If you read my first post above carefully you'll see that there are three implicit options contained in it:
 * (1) maintain the status quo and keep the current inclusion criteria unchanged (which is the option that you are arguing for);
 * (2) extend the inclusion criteria to also include just the MCFC HoF inductees; (which, if I correctly understand Oldelpaso's post below, is the option he prefers); and
 * (3) extend the inclusion criteria to also include inductees in any of the three HoF (which is the option that I'm suggesting).
 * Options (1) and (2) involve no change at all to the current list of notable players, while option (3) would only add Denis Law and Peter Schmeichel (correction to original post above). I hardly think this is the "disaster just waiting to happen" that your rather hyperbolic arguments make it out to be.  There is no similarity at all between my suggested minor modification to the current criteria and your quoted example of what happened WRT the "List of association football club rivalries by country" article.  Please don't make such a mountain out of a mole hill and use the topic at hand to soapbox your opinions on completely unrelated issues.  The issue here is literally this simple - let's try and all agree on option (1), (2) or (3).
 * The question you have to ask yourself is, why do the current criteria for inclusion in this article work for all the other City HoF inductees except for Law? Meaning that he is the only former MCFC player inducted into one of those three HoF (in fact, he is in two of the three!) that is NOT considered notable enough to be included in this article.  Even if Law was inducted into the MCFC HoF as well as the other two HoF, the current inclusion criteria still dictate that he should not be listed in this article (because he was never selected as a City "Player of the Year" and he made less than 100 appearances for the club).  So what you need to focus your attention on is the reason for the disconnect between sufficient "notability" to be listed in this article and sufficient "notability" to be inducted into three HoF (because let's, for the sake of this argument, assume he is also already in the MCFC HoF as well).
 * Ask yourself this. Does the reason for this disconnect lie with the inclusion criteria being used here or does this disconnect simply lie with the player?  I obviously believe the former, which is why I made my initial suggestion.  It appears that your own belief - with a statement such as, "we shouldn't kid ourselves that his time with City earned him that HoF place," - is that the reason for Law's omission from this article lies solely with the nature of the player himself (and conversely there is nothing wrong with the current inclusion criteria).  You appear to believe that although Law may have won over the hearts and minds of the football fans in three nations (because the NFM HoF represents both England and Wales) he did so solely on the merits of his performances away from Maine Road, and thus he is not a notable enough City player to be included here.
 * If that is indeed your opinion, then I will state here now that it only reveals your own lack of knowledge about this player and perhaps also suggests an anti-United bias on your part. I could go on and prove why that is the case but this post is already very long and I want to first give you a chance to revisit your position on this issue. Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry  Talk 23:40, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I should add that I'm also not convinced (though I don't feel strongly enough to move from my "on the fence" neutrality) that players who earned accolades for their time playing with other clubs should be added here for those accolades. City have had a lot of players over the years who were famous because of who they used to play for, and while Law will always be a legend for something he didn't actually do ;) we shouldn't kid ourselves that his time with City earned him that HoF place. We could add quite a few more players for such things. A good case in point is the (brief) inclusion of Ryan Giggs to the main article because he played for our youth team. We may have nurtured him for a while, but he did not become anything special while with us, and it's worse that he's most famous for his time with our bitter enemies. I wouldn't want to think that we were cashing in on players we were only ever a bit on the side to. It might be a bit like emblazoning our pages with "Fowler is God".
 * Food for thought anyway. Falastur2  Talk 22:44, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * On inclusion criteria, I agree with what Falastur says. I like using the club hall of fame as it indisputably refers to achievement in Manchester City colours, and does not require us to make a judgement call. Denis Law's record transfer and backheel are major parts of his career, but Peter Schmeichel's single season at the age of 39 is a minor part of his career. The event that springs to mind in debates like this is the last match before George Weah walked out. He and Shaun Goater were both on the bench. Weah may have been a former World Player of the Year, but it certainly wasn't his name that was being sung. As it stands, we are including a manager possibly regarded as the worst in the club's history, and another who fans commonly call "Judas".
 * If I understand your post correctly, you would be happy to change from option (1) to option (2) but not to option (3) (all options as defined in my response to Falastur2 above). I really don't understand why you believe any of these three options require a "judgment call" ... because all three criteria are equally objective, they are just different (and therefore could possibly return different results).  What you are really saying is that you personally don't like the result that option (3) returns - Law is possibly OK in your eyes but not Schmeichel - therefore it would require a subjective judgment call from you in order to suppress Schmeichel if we used option (3).  But Schmeichel is a very notable player within the sport who has also played for City, which is EXACTLY what this article claims to be listing.  Why should it matter where and how a player achieved his notability?  Only the players currently on this list that spent their whole career playing for the club can claim that whatever football reputation they achieved in their careers came 100% from their performances for the Blues.  Every other player on the list (the vast majority of them) built his ultimate reputation by playing at a number of clubs before and after their stint at City, so only a certain percentage of that reputation can be attributed to their performances for this particular club.
 * Dennis Tueart's reputation at Sunderland was huge before he ever transferred over to City (he was the Black Cats' star player) - hence he only subsequently enhanced his fame and reputation at City, he didn't create it there. Ditto Rodney Marsh and QPR.  Ditto Joe Royle and Everton.  Ditto Asa Hartford and WBA.  Ditto Brian Kidd and Carlos Tévez and Manchester United. I could go on and on.  Most people would associate David Wagstaffe with Wolves whom he joined after leaving City, so by having him on the list are we effectively including someone based on "accolades that he really earned for his time playing with another club" (as Falastur2 would probably phrase it)?  Your argument for not including Peter Schmeichel, if applied equably and objectively across the board, should possibly also disclude Joe Royle and Brian Kidd (to name just two off the top of my head) from being on the list.  Why do you feel that a City player being voted "Player of the Year" by a bunch of City fans is a significant and objective criterion WRT gauging that player's reputation, yet a City player being inducted into a national Hall of Fame by fans of many different clubs is some kind of arbitrary and insignificant honour not worth noting?
 * It strikes me that the only reason you are happy to adopt option (2) instead of option (1) is that it currently does not produce any names that are different than the ones produced by option (1), therefore it is not really any kind of change. But if you accept the logic of option (2) - viz. that induction into a Hall of Fame is noteworthy - then you have absolutely no basis to reject the logic of option (3) ... other than that it yields results that do not fit your subjective preconceived ideas of who should be on the list.  That is hardly an objective approach to determining who should and should not be be included.
 * "As it stands, we are including a manager possibly regarded as the worst in the club's history, and another who fans commonly call 'Judas'." I'm assuming "Judas" refers to Don Revie - who was exemplary as a player for City - but who is the manager that is possibly regarded as the worst in City's history that is being included?  Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry  Talk 06:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Only my last paragraph was referring exclusively to this page, which is why I originally put it all at Talk:Manchester City F.C. At the main article, I think that the listing of Schmeichel, the spectacularly unsuccessful Alan Ball and the traitorously nicknamed Howard Kendall is undue weight. As this article is concerned solely with players, we have more room for manoeuvre. Obviously now the comments have been moved mention of managers is misplaced.
 * The "list of notable footballers" blurb ought to be rewritten. By Wikipedia's notability standards, pretty much everyone to represent the club at first team level is notable, but at 1000+ entries that would be prohibitively long. I shall modify the lead in line with some of the featured lists of this type (see also the topic below). Oldelpaso (talk) 08:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have an idea for a way of including the national halls of fame in the player list, I shall put it in a sandbox. Incidentally, even though they do not meet the criteria, we occasionally get edits from Costa Rican and Israeli IPs adding Wanchope or Berkovic to the player list. I once knocked up a sandbox version of the player list that included those with 50-100 appearances, which would render most of this moot, but unfortunately it proved unworkably large. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you considered lowering the threshold for this current list from, say, 100 to 80? Would that also make some of the issues moot?  I've no idea what Law's AppsStats are but would he make the list with such a lower threshold?  How unworkably large is unworkably large?  How long is a piece of string?  If this was a list of "notable players" then a really long list would tend to undermine that concept.  But you've now removed that focus - this is now just a list of players with 100 or more appearances for City (many of whom, it turns out, are quite notable too :) ).  Why can this not be a list of players with 80 (or 75 or some other number) or more appearances instead?  You appear to be determining that a piece of string can be too long in your POV.  Is there some suggested Wiki-length for such lists that this article would be violating should you lower the threshold for inclusion a tad?
 * As stated earlier, I'm not trying to get Law on the list per se. You have to ask yourself what is the purpose of such a list and why would anyone want to look at it.  When it claimed to be a list of "notable players" readers would most likely look at it to see where the players they personally considered notable sat in the whole scheme of things.  When I first looked at it, what immediately stood out to me that made me question how arbitrarily the list was perhaps cut off, were that Wyn Davies, Mick Channon, Denis Law and Trevor Francis were all missing from the list.  These are personal favorites and notable players in my own mind (for whatever reasons), while other people looking at the list will probably have their own mental list too.  If this was still a list of "notable players" (with AppStats used as one of the justifications for their notability) one could argue until the cows came home as to who should actually be on the list or not, as Falastur2 pointed out.  The arbitrary cutoff at 100 appearances would be a big factor in that discussion too.
 * With the issue of "notability" removed, I would say the issue has now been reduced down to: if a list of 100+ appearances ignores players X,Y and Z (such as those listed above) while most of these players appear on a list of 80+ (fill in your own number here) appearances, why don't we simply change the threshold for the list? I suspect that many of the players that people think should be on the list (but who made less than 100 appearances), such as Wanchope or Berkovic, all fall not too shy of that threshold anyway.  But I'm certainly not suggesting that you reduce that threshold down to five or ten.  Another approach might be to make the threshold for inclusion "100+ appearances or scored more than xx goals for City".  If a player entered people's consciousness without making lots of appearances it is most likely because he scored a lot of goals in the relatively few appearances he did play (e.g., Tevez).  Unfortunately, this approach favors strikers over GKs and defenders.  Anyway, food for thought, I hope.  Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry  Talk 20:53, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of a simple prose addition like User:Oldelpaso/Sandbox. As those in the club hall of fame are already indicated by bolding, this would make the additional column redundant. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Push to make this a featured list?
It shouldn't be too much work to make this ready for a featured list nomination. However, there is one area that would undoubtedly be raised in that process – our sourcing for current players. Soccerbase is used, but the home leg of the European tie against Timisoara is missing from Soccerbase's figures. This affects the totals for Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Richards and Wright-Phillips. The previous experience of Wikipedians is that Soccerbase do not respond to emails offering corrections, so what other source can we use? Due to the sad passing of Steve Kay, mcfcstats.com is no longer updated. Each match programme gives career City appearance totals for all players, but is out of date as soon as the match has finished. Oldelpaso (talk) 08:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * BBC's stats for the recent players perhaps? Here's Kompany, as an example. For the record, I haven't checked to make sure all the stats match what we claim on Wikipedia, but I thought I'd throw it out there... Falastur2  Talk 14:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit: Scratch that. Did a bit more research and BBC doesn't record players returning from loan or returning to an old club as going back to the said old club. It thinks they're at a new club for record purposes. It shows SWP having only 60 league appearances, for instance, because that's all he has since he returned from Chelsea - no reference to him playing for us before Chelsea. Perhaps BBC isn't such a reliable source. Falastur2  Talk 14:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Other problems with the BBC Sport stats. is that the Beeb erases (it's probably only a choice not to display rather than actual erasure) stats. for PL players that move to the FL (e.g. Craig Bellamy). The individual player stats. the Beeb display for the PL players are more comprehensive than those for the players in the lower divisions (which are just the minimum of apps. and goals and they are displayed as a single PST type table in the club stats. record) so rather than be able to continue to display data such as "total club" or "last season" apps. and goals for Craig while he's at Cardiff, the Beeb just display the minimum that is required by the format required for Championship players.  Should Craig return back into the City first team next season (which is probably very unlikely) or stay with Cardiff and play back in the PL again because Cardiff get promoted (much more likely), it will be interesting to see what his "last season" and "club total" stats. sections look like.
 * Having said that, the Beeb stats. are usually more accurate than the Soccerbase ones because the BBC Sport stats. for the players mentioned all showed one more game played for them (Richards also showed one more goal which, since he didn't score against Timisoara, I now assume is his "dubious goals" panel award from last season, but at the time I thought this was because the update for the Reading FA Cup game was still outstanding). I was simultaneously looking at both sources and I wanted to use the BBC ones in my update rather than the Soccerbase ones because they matched mine (the same as the ones in the PST) but I could not be sure that the reason for the difference was simply because there is a lag in how soon the Soccerbase stats. get updated.  This was just a snapshot update for March (last one done in September according to the update comments) so one match either way did not matter.  It certainly didn't justify my changing the defined source for those players stats.  And the stated problem with SWP was the clincher ... I could not source everybody else from BBC Sport but him.  So I opted to simply update the stats. from the Soccerbase numbers (assuming I didn't make any math errors) since anything else would have effectively been my POV or OR.  Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry  Talk 02:44, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Which are the correct stats. to display?
Where is there a clear definition of what is considered to be a competitive match versus a friendly match? The Community/Charity Shield is usually considered to be a competitive match rather than a friendly - it's the first official match of every new season - while, for instance, the Texaco Cup was always considered to be a close season friendly competition. Not much different than, say, the New York Football Challenge which City participated in this last summer. You continually lump these two sorts of games together in "Other columns" in your tables of goal scoring stats. I don't believe goals scored in the Texaco Cup, Anglo-Italian Cup, or Watneys Cup, etc. should be included in official match goal tallies. But goals scored in the CS tournament should be. This same argument also applies to tallies of match appearances. For instance, you just included those sorts of "unofficial appearances" in the numbers for Alan Oakes that you just added to the introduction to this article.

This issue affects, for example, the goal scoring ranking of someone such as Colin Bell. Is he the club's sole third goal scorer with 153 goals or the joint third goal scorer with 152 goals. The difference between these two numbers is an "other" goal - but if that "other" goal is a Charity Shield goal then his official tally is 153, while if it is a Texaco Cup goal then his official tally is 152. So which is it? Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry Talk 22:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * We can only go by what our sources tell us, as those sources are what we are creating the article from. The most authoritative statistical volume about the club is Gary James' Manchester City – The Complete Record. This includes the Charity Shield, Anglo-Italian Cup, Anglo-Scottish Cup, Texaco Cup, Tennant-Caledonian Cup, Full Members' Cup and Associate Members' Cup in its "other" column (City never played in the Watney Cup). The statistics section of the book is an update of an earlier volume of the same title by Ray Goble and Andrew Ward. I don't own a copy of this version but know people who do and can check it if necessary. The annual Manchester City F.C. Official Handboook series published in the 1980s and 1990s includes all of these competitions in its "other" column, but has occasional omissions or errors. Mcfcstats.com, a fansite but a very comprehensive one, also includes them all. If all the comprehensive sources view these as official first team matches, we need to too in order to accurately reflect our source material.
 * The other area of ambiguity is players from the Ardwick era. Some sources count the Football Alliance, some don't. That doesn't affect this list as no-one who played for Ardwick in 1891–92 reached 100 appearances by any measure. However, if we decide to follow the Gillingham precedent and create a separate list for players with less appearances, it will come into consideration.
 * I will check all the figures with a minimum of two sources. Not all at once as it will get very dull, but I will check them all in due course. When the article was first created, sourcing standards were less rigorous than they are now, and I used this page as a source. As that contains no "other" competitions at all, it is likely that there are inconsistencies dating from early revisions. Oldelpaso (talk) 17:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You state above that since all of your 3 main sources lump the CS games (which I have always understood to be "other official" appearances/goals) in with the Texaco Cup, Anglo-Scottish Cup, et al (which I have always understood to be "other unofficial" appearances/goals) that we have little choice but to go with that arrangement. It all sounds a little revisionist to me but I cannot fault the logic.  If it's only possible to source the information that way then we have little choice with presenting it in like manner, otherwise the numbers presented will technically be original research.  You still have that problem when you have discrepancies occurring between the 3 sources, because your arbitration of those discrepancies will be your own original research (or POV) too.
 * But I'm now confused by your "adjust for 30s Charity Shields and make sure no 1939/40 apps are counted" edit. Some of the numbers are going up (I assume these are the CS adjustments) whilst other numbers are going down (I assume these are the 39/40 exclusions).  Am I right in thinking that you are now effectively going through the numbers (starting with the 30s) and modifying the "official" apps. and goal tallies to include CS games where before they did not (and thus that you agree with me on this issue)?  If so, how do you reconcile what you are doing with the claim that these adjustments are OR?
 * BTW, you have taken this issue way off on a tangent from what I initially wanted to know - which was whether Colin Bell's official goal tally was 152 or 153. Looks like I may have opened a can of worms by asking that question. :) Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry  Talk 01:51, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am including Charity Shield games where they were missing, and agree that they should be there. I mistakenly thought until it was raised here that they were already included. Generally, yes, up was the addition of Charity Shield and down was the removal of the expunged matches. There are also a couple of errors that have crept in, mostly from the MCVITA source which only has League/FA/LC/Europe, but also the odd purely typographical error, such as George Smith's entry. I am working my way through the list from top to bottom, armed with Complete Record and Handbook 1997/98 and checking that the figures match in both. There haven't been any disagreements between the two in the period up to 1947. Complete Record has full line-ups for all the "other" matches (and indeed all matches in all competitions) so the reason for any discrepancies should become obvious. I am informed that the line-up data in Complete Record is based upon the teamsheets submitted by MCFC to the Football League et al, at least from the year some time in the inter-war period that it became mandatory.
 * Now, the Colin Bell figures (Complete Record, p. 160): League 393 + 1 sub, 117 goals; FA Cup 33 + 1 (9 goals); League Cup 40 (18); European Cup 2 (0); ECWC 16 (7); UEFA 5+1 (1); Charity Shield 4 (1); Anglo-Italian 2 (0); Texaco 3 (0). Total 498 starts, 3 sub, 153 goals. Oldelpaso (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So my original intuition was correct. That missing "other" goal was in the CS and thus an official goal changing his total goals tally (as you currently have him in the list) to 153, and making him the club's SOLE 3rd highest goal scorer (with 153 goals) rather than the club's JOINT 3rd highest goal scorer (with only 152 goals).  Unless, of course, that table still requires adjustments to Joe Hayes' numbers.  But if you are up to Alan Oakes already with your numbers-checking that doesn't sound like that is going to happen.  Please confirm.
 * My previous questions re OR were based on the fact that you had led me to believe in your initial reply (please go reread) that all of your sources lumped the CS numbers in with all the other unofficial games' numbers in a single column of numbers in such a way that it was now impossible to separate the one from the other. From your last reply I learnt that the Complete Record does clearly distinguish between the various "other" games (and one would hope that a book with such a title would!) so "dislumping" those "other" totals is quite feasible (and it is, in fact, what you are doing).  Consequently, never mind about the OR question. Except, how are you resolving conflicts in numbers between the 3 sources.  Are you treating the Complete Record as the definitive source in all cases?  The reason I ask is because I frequently see sources quoted in Wikipedia articles for information that is actually derived from elsewhere ... in which case, it is not the sole source, and that editor (or group of editors) are fibbing and just going through the motions in claiming that it is.
 * The same issue also applies elsewhere in this article WRT the issue of Soccerbase as the source of the stats. If we have to correct those numbers for "dubious goals" amendments and missing Europa League appearances then it's NOT the sole source of the numbers, and any amendments to correct those deficiencies need to be very carefully annotated and sourced themselves. Right now, neither the sourcing nor the stats. are correct for the current players with 100+ appearances.  Or maybe that should really be, the sourcing is now correct because I just broke the stats. in order to align them with Soccerbase, mostly because I did not know what specific amendments I had to perform in each case in order to adjust the Soccerbase numbers to reality - or even an alternative source, because I fully realize reality has no meaning on Wikipedia! :)  As you pointed out above, you are effectively caught between the Devil and the deep blue sea with this issue - if the stats. are right then your sourcing is wrong; if you align the stats. with the source then your stats. are wrong.  Which looks like a big problem for you right now.  Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry  Talk 19:42, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm into the Mercer era numbers-checking wise, so Hayes has been checked. Discrepancies have been mercifully few so far. The main area for confusion is Handbook 1997/98 counting the Anglo-Italian Cup in the column for European competition, which looks like a discrepancy on the surface but has no effect on the overall total. Complete Record is the source I place most trust in, but my intent is to do as I have done for Pardoe and Crossan whenever there is a discrepancy - use the figure from Complete Record in the table but point out the disagreement between sources in a footnote. The Soccerbase issue is indeed awkward, but first I'll concentrate on getting everything up to 2006 in order. Oldelpaso (talk) 14:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Ordering
It's just come to mind that this list is ordered by year of appearances whereas the 25-99 and >25 articles are ordered by number of appearances. Should we not be ordering them both by the same criterion? I'd prefer by number of appearances, personally, but either way, shouldn't they both be ordered the same? Falastur2 Talk 13:06, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
 * When I created the other two lists I realised the scope of them meant ordering by appearances made more sense. They were modelled on the Birmingham lists created by Struway2. My ideal version of this list looks quite different from what we have now, but as evidenced in threads above, not everybody has felt the same way. If it was solely up to me, it would be ordered by appearances, and I'd get rid of the national hall of fame tables (replaced with some prose relating to that. Maybe here, maybe in another article). I'd also consider moving away from assigning players a nationality in favour of just listing the highest level of international recognition gained. In the other lists this has included the number of caps gained while at MCFC, but that has proved difficult to source well, particularly as Transfermarkt is not deemed a reliable source. Oldelpaso (talk) 14:27, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Why has the list been split in two?
To start with - I can see for myself why exactly the list was split in two by tracing the edit history of the article, but that is not really the question I am getting at. More rather, I am not convinced that this list should have been split in two in the first place. Why are we dividing the figures up between those sourced from a book and those sourced from soccerbase? Yes, I acknowledge that the two are not necessarily equally authoritative and that some reference needs to be made to the idea that the information has come from several sources, but are we trying to claim that one source is inherently less reliable than the other? Or that "contemporary" players are somehow more tangible or distinguishable than previous players, which feels somewhat akin to the way people talk about football being invented in 1992?

By splitting the list we create an unnecessary divide between the two sets of players - it becomes hard if not impossible to seriously compare the stats of two players from different lists, and we risk suggesting that the club or the fans view the two sets of players as separate from each other, especially since the article makes no reference to why they have been divided up. This style is not how any other team presents its list of players - they all consolidate in a single list - and while I want to encourage anonymous users to help us in this project by editing and updating information, I feel compelled to point out that these edits were made by an unregistered user who has not returned to Wikipedia since he (or she) made the changes half a year ago, and they were made with no forewarning nor attempt to poll for opinions from other users.

Personally, I'm ill at ease with keeping the current style and would like to suggest we revert it to the previous, single-list, format. Does anyone have any comments? Falastur2 Talk 02:57, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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text:
Lo'Jo

Lo'Jo (formerly Lo'Jo Triban) is a French band, gathering a group of France-based musicians of various origins, performing and recording a blend of world music, with strong gipsy, North African as well as French folk elements.

History
The band was founded in 1982 in Angers, France, by singer/keyboardist Denis Péan and Richard Bourreau (violin/kora). These two have remained central to Lo'Jo throughout their history. For several years, with a rotating cast of members, they played events locally, working with acrobats, street theatre, mime, dancers and film as part of their overall presentation. They have subsequently maintained a communal lifestyle, based in Angers.

By the end of the 1980s, they were playing throughout Europe and had appeared in New York as part of an artists' collective. Including Nicholas 'Kham' Meslien (bass) and Matthieu Rousseau (drums) (later replaced by Franck Vaillant), they consolidated their line-up, and their first album, Fils de Zamal, was released in 1993. In 1995 the group added Berber singer/saxophonist Yamina Nid El Mourid and her sister, Nadia, who brought a strong North African influence to the music. In 1996, the new lineup recorded Sin Acabar, and 1997 saw them complete Mojo Radio, both with English producer Justin Adams. Upon the latter's release they found more acclaim in the world music community, getting them on the WOMAD circuit.

In 1999, they journeyed to Bamako, Mali, to begin work on Bohème de Cristal. While in Mali, they became involved in the organization of the Desert Music Festival held in January 2001. They have also collaborated with a wide variety of musicians, including Tinariwen.

In 2002, they released the acclaimed album, Au Cabaret Sauvage (originally issued in France as L'une des Siens). This was followed by a live album Ce Soir Là (2003), and a new studio album Bazar Savant (2006). In 2009, they released the album Cosmophono, and toured in the UK.

Discography

 * Fils De Zamal (1993)
 * Sin Acabar (1996)
 * Mojo Radio (1998)
 * Bohême De Cristal (2000)
 * Au Cabaret Sauvage (issued in France as L'Une des Siens) (2002)
 * Ce Soir Là... (Live) (2003)
 * Bazar Savant (2006)
 * Tu Connais Lo'Jo? (2007, compilation)
 * Cosmophono (2009)
 * Cinema El Mundo (2012)
 * 310 Lunes (2014)
 * Fonetiq Flowers (2017)
 * Transe de papier (2020)

Other contributions

 * Hear Music Volume 7: Waking (2002, Hear Music) - "Kamarad"

title: Lo'Jo