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Talk:Harajuku Girls

What happened?
-I am completely confused - usually when someone wants to make a new article with a name that already exsists, they create a new article, why was this one re-written instead of a separate page being give to "Gwen Stefani's Harajuku Girls"? The Japanese do not call themselves "Harajuku Girls" but if you search the web you will find 1000's of hits and pictures of girls in Harajuku described as "Harajuku Girls" - it is a valid term in Western culture.Their biggest fan is Cassidy Gazaway. The original Harajuku article has also really gone down the drain, originally it was about Harajuku the area and the overall culture, while this article was specifically about the western phenomen of "Harajuku Girls" - people are going to search for this term to find more information about the girl's Gwen admires, not her side kicks. I agree with making them into separate pages, this article was hi-jacked. If it was found to be inappropriate, it should have been nominated for DELETION not deleted and changed to a different subject! Denaar 03:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Consensus was reached. (I was advocating your suggestion). Harajuku Girls is the appropriate namespace for the band dance entourage. The Harajuku article is not sufficient enough to have a seperate article on subculture. Also see Gothic Lolita --ZayZayEM 04:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

 * If Consensus was reached, where is the link to the debate? Those are supposed to be archived and linked to the talk page (because if you read the information above, there is no consensus). Denaar 13:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

 * It's above. No dissent was voiced aside from mine. That's consensus.--ZayZayEM 13:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Just for the record, Second Life is using "Harajuku Girl" as a descriptive term for one of their default avatar choices. They don't seem to be referring to the dancers themselves, but the western term for a particular japanese-influenced style. Neither existing wikipedia page - the one called Harajuku or this one - was particularly helpful to me as I tried to figure out exactly what subculture they were referring to. However, I hesitate to jump into this fight with both feet since there seems to be disagreement about how this should be handled. Subversified 17:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't really care if this links to Gwen's Harajuku Girls or not - but to say there is no term "Harajuku Girl" in Japan is plain wrong. But what would I know? I only live here and hang out in Harajuku/Yoyogi/ShibuyaSennen goroshi 16:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Controversy
I've removed the "Controversy" thing for now because, despite two cited articles, I'm not really seeing anything controversial here. They're backup dancers, that's it. I'm sort of wondering how far I'd have to have delved into Gwen Stefani, and rock/pop in general, to run into any suggestion that having a bunch of pretty Japanese girls in school uniforms was controversial in any way. --Tony Sidaway 23:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I disagree, Cho got a lot of flack for her comments and they were widely reported. Denaar 23:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason for the controversy was that she had a group of back-up dancers who were rumored to not be allowed to speak English (although it's a rumor and may be false, it was a controversial rumor nonetheless). Their performances often consisted of robotic-like dancing, and they were shown as a group of giggling schoolgirls in many performances.  For more sources on the issue, here are some articles that discuss the issue: .  17Drew 07:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

 * "robotic-like dancing, and they were shown as a group of giggling schoolgirls" Wow that's an issue all right, and controversial and racist for sure, because everyone knows real Japanese schoolgirls never, ever, giggle.<IP_ADDRESS> 12:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Your comment would more persuasive, were it not for the fact that they are not "schoolgirls". The dancers are all in their 20s, yet made to act like bubbleheaded teens in public. In fact, there is quite a fetish for Asian women associated with the "airheaded submissive giggling [psuedo]schoolgirl" stereotype, and as some Asian women will quickly point out, that annoying little stereotype is something they have to contend with any time they so much as walk into a bar let alone try to date a non-Asian male. I make no particular comment here on the actual dance group or Gwen's use of them in her career; just pointing out that there IS a reason for the "giggling schoolgirl" thing being listed as something some people find offensive... since, you know, some people in the media (not just the link I listed, there's also Cho's comments, at least one published on Salon, and a few others that I'm aware of but have not read completely yet) HAVE stated that they consider it to be offensive. More specifically, the complaint seems to be that the portrayal is demeaning and reinforces allegedly damaging stereotypes about Asian women as, well... submissive bimbos. Some of the imagery captured of these girls when interacting with Stefani would seem to fuel this; they are sometimes portrayed in a worshipful stance, for instance, and remain waiting mutely in the background while she does interviews in which she jokingly refers to them as possibly being figments of her imagination. It is... strange to say the least, but one can probably see why it upsets some people, particularly after listening to said people's particular complaints (which, to reiterate, largely have to do with fetishy stereotypes about Asian women, including the stereotype of them being submissive).  <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 06:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole submissive stereotype is not some kind of Western fetish. All these perceptions and stereotypes were prevalent in Japanese culture (and other Asian cultures) before they made their way into the west. If Cho really has a problem with American stereotypes of Asian women, she should address the problem at the source - Asia. Repeter (talk) 16:46, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Section has been renamed. It contains criticism of the group, and particularly Stefani's PR use of them. It does not detail anything contraversial. If renaming, Please provide reliable sources making this a controversial topic. I think it would be best left as "criticism" as that is what the section entails.--ZayZayEM 16:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the rename, but would like to see more detail included in this section, such as where Maragaret Cho is quoted; a quick internet search pulled up a post on her blog viewable here which reiterated her "minstrel show" comment (thus, we should possibly reword it to not she has "repeatedly" called it a "minstrel show") and also compared the depictions to Amos 'N Andy. Additionally, the Salon article went into far more detail and was far more acid in describing how/why the PR use/depictions of the girls is allegedly offensive than is actually connoted by the article at current. The OC Weekly article I linked further up on this Talk page also has some interesting criticism of it in the larger context of stereotypes of Asians/Asian-American experience that I think could potentially be a good addition (not familiar enough with the publication to know if it 100% meets notability requirements, which is the only reason I say "potentially"). <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 06:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

"Racist"?
Removed the term "racism" from the lead, a serious but unsourced accusation. Also there are "some" commentators not "many," changed that too. <IP_ADDRESS> 12:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Why is there a no-sources tag for that particular accusation when all of the criticism in the actual Criticism section is well-sourced? Shouldn't it just read "(see "Criticism", below)" after the comment...? <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 06:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Created archive
I created an archive. Talk:Harajuku Girls/Archive 1

I tried to leave any active discussions.

Most of it details the discussion about article content/title and the removal of Harajuku and Gothic Lolita related content from the page to focus on the dance entourage.

I have also removed wikiproject tags. This is not a Japan-related or Fashion-related article anymore.--ZayZayEM 14:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

not used in japan?
how about nearly 2000 matches for the term "原宿の女の子" when searching google.jp ? and believe it or not, the majority did not refer to gwen stefani. I have no issue with this page pointing towards the dance group, but to say the term isnt used in Japan is totally wrong.

read items such as this http://www.web-across.com/observe/d6eo3n000001x8f8.html to find someone Japanese using the term in a manner that has nothing to do with a dance group.Sennen goroshi 17:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Indeed, how about those hits? Considering the fame of 原宿 in Japan and the normality of the phrase 女の子, 17,800 hits (as of a few seconds ago; perhaps one of our Googles was misbehaving) seems low. Let's go one station south: "渋谷の女の子" got 101,000 hits just a few seconds later. -- Hoary 23:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

 * If there is any dispute then then the phrase "No term corresponding to "Harajuku girl" is currently used in Japan for girls who frequent Harajuku (known as a center for teen and avant garde fashions; see Harajuku)." should be removed. The fact that searching for that phrase in Japanese on google.jp yields about 2000 results, shows absolutely that the phrase is used in Japan. If someone thinks that other phrases are used more often than "Harajuku Girls" (which I would agree with) then state it - to say "No term" is false. So either that whole phrase should be removed, or it should be changed to read that there are other more specific terms that are more popular.Sennen goroshi 03:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not convinced. 原宿の女の子 can simply mean "girls in Harajuku."  Indeed, it's used to mean exactly that in the first hit that comes up.  The second is for a Flikr page in English.  Also among the first ten results, a discussion of the Harajuku Girls (Gwen Stefani's), using the gloss ハラジュクガール.  I don't see much evidence if any to suggest that the term is used in Japan the way it is in English.  Exploding Boy 06:39, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm agreeing with EB here. The example you use seems to be using it to convey "This is a young women from Harajuku", not suggesting anything to do with a particular outrageous fashion style.--ZayZayEM 07:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

*unindent* I've modified it so it is not the overtly aggressive "no term". This isn't really substantiated. However a few of the 'ハラジュクガール' hits I looked at seemed to be directly about Gwen Stefani's album. Many were blogs, that like this one (English trans) which says "でも原宿の女の子達はグウェンの事を知りません"

Which to me is saying "I really don't know what this "Harajuku girl" thing of Gwen's is on about". But my Japanese is pretty poor. (But, Harajuku girl, Gwen's thing, I don't know of)--ZayZayEM 07:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Gwen Stefani is from California, which despite bombardment by Japan by balloon (!) in World War II has never been part of Japan. Her native language is English, not Japanese.

In the light of this, I find it utterly incomprehensible that the following statement has found its way into the lead section of this article about a group of Japanese girls hired by an English-speaking woman to accompany her English-speaking stage act.

 * In Japan, no equivalent term to "Harajuku girl" is in widespread use to refer to young women who frequent Harajuku (known as a center for teen and avant garde fashions; see Harajuku). The "Harajuku Girls" represent "Stefani's interpretation of Tokyo street fashion in the Harajuku district".

It just doesn't make any sense. The Japanese language is not obliged to have an equivalent phrase for any and every term used by English-speaking people about Japan or Japanese culture. --Tony Sidaway 08:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Right, of course it isn't so obliged. But pop fans aren't always the brightest lightbulbs, and it seems that many non-Japanese-speaking Stefani fans infer that "Harajuku girls" (lowercase "g") is a particular concept, or even a lexical item. What do you suggest? -- Hoary 08:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * The English language generic "harajuku girls" is an obvious candidate term to use about Japanese girls who express their identity in their local youth subculture by dressing in Harajuku styles, particularly gothic lolita, a style that has proven popular enough in the West that I could walk into a London store and buy such clothing (though sadly I no longer have the doll-like figure to carry it off). Gwen Stefani's use of the term would undoubtedly influence the putative widespread adoption of a such a term as a generic.  This isn't unusual in fashion.  Nearly all common fashion generics originated as a look specific to one fashion house (we even speak of the New Look to describe  post-war revolution in fashions that originated with Christian Dior's debut collection).  Needless to say, Gwen Stefani is an influential fashion designer in her own right, and shrewdly exploits the Japanese connection promoted by her touring image with the Harajuku Lovers fashion line. --Tony Sidaway 09:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, yes, but I hadn't noticed that Stefani was influential or particularly popular in Japan. Thus I don't suppose that "Harajuku girl", or some calque on it, is going to become a regular Japanese term any time soon. It might do, and it's an interesting notion to natter about here, but as for the article itself all this is mere crystal balloc-- er, I mean crystal ballistics. As long as neither "Harajuku girl" nor anything like it is widely used in Japan, aren't en:WP's innocent young readers slightly helped by being informed of this very minor linguistic fact? -- Hoary 09:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, it might be relevant enough to be put into the article somewhere. I'd be very sensitive to the wording, however, because really I see no evidence that Stefani or the Harajuku Girls have ever used the term as a generic, and obviously it wouldn't be in their interest (in the commercial sense) to do so.  --Tony Sidaway 10:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * In my experience, the term Harajuku Girl is not used by the girls in Harajuku to describe themselves, but by people who are describing the girls in Harajuku whilst not being an actual Harajuku Girl themselves.Sennen goroshi 13:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed from lead for now
I'm removing this from the lead for now because of concerns about balance.

 * In Japan, no equivalent term to "Harajuku girl" is in widespread use to refer to young women who frequent Harajuku (known as a center for teen and avant garde fashions; see Harajuku). The "Harajuku Girls" represent "Stefani's interpretation of Tokyo street fashion in the Harajuku district".

 * Stefani has drawn criticism for her use of the Harajuku Girls, who some commentators see as promoting negative stereotypes of Asian females.

The link is out of date, and should be updated to this:
 * http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2005/04/09/geisha/

By way of support for the "criticism" statement, we've only got two statements, and no indication that those statements were particularly influential. One was by Margaret Cho in Blender Magazine (our article on that magazine sadly also shows signs of giving too much weight to negative commentary, but that is unrelated to this issue). The other was by Mihi Ahn in Salon.

Whilst the criticism is well-informed and significant, I question whether it is of such magnitude as to merit attention in the lead.

I've already criticised the long paragraph I'm removing on the grounds that it is a statement of something completely unsurprising: that not all English-language references to Japanese culture are direct one-to-one translations of Japenese terms. There are many English language terms that borrow Japanese words but do not have direct Japanese equivalents, and vice versa. --Tony Sidaway 08:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * It's completely unsurprising to you and me, because we're at least moderately well educated and thoughtful. But the page will be read by teens and perhaps preteens too. -- Hoary 08:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I question whether "the criticism is well-informed and significant". Sample: She's taken Tokyo hipsters, sucked them dry of all their street cred, and turned them into China dolls . . . Stefani has taken the idea of Japanese street fashion and turned these women into modern-day geisha. First, who are these hipsters? I don't suppose she means the backup dancers themselves; she's more likely to mean some "type" of Japanese female. But if she's talking about girls in Harajuku, "shoppers" comes to mind faster than "hipsters". OR tells me that the majority of girls go to Harajuku to look pretty, or to find out about how to look pretty; "hipness" is largely limited to choosing one brand rather than another. "Street cred": What's this: qualification to appear in this or that fashion magazine? And which is the awful result of Stefani's sucking: "China dolls" or "geisha"? This is less a criticism than a mere rant. -- Hoary 08:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Margaret Cho is a very significan critic on this matter, I think, but I've just noticed that the commentary here was made on her blog, and I think it would be more appropriate if we could find out whether this particular blog statement has been referenced widely, or whether Margaret Cho has reproduced her commentary on this subject in more appropriate media.

 * I was also surprised to see that, although we do in fact have an article about Mihi Ahn, it comprises solely a reference to that particular article in Salon. That is to say, our biographical article on that journalist says that her sole claim to fame is that she criticised Gwen Stefani in an online magazine (albeit a fairly influential one in its own right).

 * These two new observations concerning the provenance of the criticism strengthen my feeling that the criticism is being given undue weight. --Tony Sidaway 09:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Personally I find it to be perfect now, if there is some dispute as to whether the term "Harajuku girls" is used and/or how widespread the usage is, surely it would be best not to mention it, until someone can categorically prove if it is used or not. If this was an article about the girls who hang out in Harajuku, I would suggest that it might be better to have something along the lines of "Harajuku girls are commonly referred to in terms that are more specific about their style of dress, such as........." but as this is about the dancers not the actual girls from Harajuku, I'm not sure how necessary it would be to state that (however, I don't see it doing any harm) Personal notes: 1. Maybe because I'm a foreigner in Japan, my knowledge of Japanese culture is not 100%, however I have personally heard/used the term on numerous occasions. 2. The claims that she is stereotyping Japanese/Asian gils is kinda retarded - while the style might not be 100% representative of the young girls in Japan, it's not far off, they do spend a lot of time hanging out in their school uniforms with too much makeup on, Margaret Cho needs to get her ass over to Japan, walk around Harajuku/Shibuya/Shinjuku and realise that this stereotype is so damn close to the truth. (the last 2 statements were just me ranting, and have nothing to do with my intentions for this page)Sennen goroshi 09:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I have one remaining concern, and that pertains to the sourcing of the Cho quote. Cho has definitely made these observations--they're on her blog--but at present the article says that she made the observations in an interview on Blender for the January/February 2006 edition.  Sourcing from a blog and claiming the observations were made in a more prominent forum is less than ideal, although I think I've hacked the article about enough today so I'm reluctant to remove the thing completely.  I would like to see this resolved, however. --Tony Sidaway 10:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I've just now prodded Mihi Ahn. -- Hoary 10:22, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Although I would like to remove the criticism section, I think it deserves to stay, maybe without the quotes, considering the short length of the entire article, it seems to overwhelm the rest of the text. Maybe just stating that they whined about stereotypes, and having a link to their attention seeking whining session, rather than quoting them would be best?Sennen goroshi 10:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I've also removed a large section about alleged "racism" and the like, basically reproducing the criticisms here, from a section of the article Love. Angel. Music. Baby. --Tony Sidaway 10:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Why are we going through this again? See Talk:Harajuku Girls for a list of articles that mention or include criticism of the group and of Stefani.  The fact that you're not surprised that people criticized her doesn't mean that it's not a significant viewpoint that should be represented fairly.  I've seen Cho's comments referred to in several reliable publications: Entertainment Weekly, MTV, The Honolulu Advertiser, and Entertainment Weekly again.  17Drew 15:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You list four. The first two say almost nothing, they just look like exercises in filling space. They're no more substantial than blogs, even though their publishers may have hugely bigger budgets. Indeed, the second one is a mere gossip column. After looking at the first two, I was too bored to want to plow on, but I forced myself to look at the Advertiser article. The coverage there is: Undaunted, standup comedian Margaret Cho publicly criticized the Harajuku Girls as "a minstrel show" that reinforced ethnic stereotypes of Asian women. Period. Gosh! ¶ Is this something that has gone beyond mentions in celebrity magazines, etc.? The US still has magazines worth reading; have any of these published anything on this that merits more than three seconds' thought? -- Hoary 16:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Does it matter? The issue was that using a primary reference as a source of criticism.  The information has been republished and mentioned or discussed in several reliable sources.  The quality of American journalism is not relevant to an article about the Harajuku Girls.  17Drew 16:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I thought that the issue was of whether the criticism was notable. To be notable it would have to be recognized as incisive, or at least brought up a lot of talk. Maybe it has, but I haven't yet seen any discussion of it, merely mentions of it the most insipid, barrel-scraping articles. Has this been discussed, even for just a paragraph or so, in an article in the Asian-American or feminist press, or Atlantic, New Yorker, Nation, Harper's, American Prospect or similar? -- Hoary 14:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

 * perhaps a good solution would be to retain the M.Cho quote and reference while removing the other (rather un-notable) reference, as the only thing Mihi_Ahn is notable for, is complaining about the Harajuku girls...(hmmmmm If I complain about the Harajuku girls on my blog, do I become notable?)Sennen goroshi 18:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * [outdent] Why would we remove the information from Ahn's article?  No, writing an article about Stefani doesn't make her notable (and the Mihi Ahn article really should be deleted).  But not every source needs to have been covered by other sources to be considered a reliable source.  17Drew 18:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I think it should be removed as there is not much difference between someone who is only notable for writing one criticism re. someone famous, and me whining about someone in my blog. She is not notable, her wikipedia entry is up for deletion - it should be a reliable source, she is as reliable as a blog, but whatever keep it/delete it, I'm not a Gwen Stefani fan, I don't really care that much...do whatever the current consensus is.Sennen goroshi 18:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the statement was added to explain that "Harajuku Girls" are not a unified sub-culture. Harajuku is just a shopping district where the streets were closed to traffic (and then opened again). Different cultures have been closly associated with the area - but there isn't a difinitive "Harajuku Girl" but rather "Girls who happen to be in Harajuku". It is especially interesting to me that the height of the "Harajuku street style" was during the 90s when the streets were closed to traffic, it was already in decline by the time Stefani published her album. (See the book Fruits published by Phaidon Press, it was a reference on this page at one time - it mentioned the decline of Harajuku street fashion in 2001). Mostly what is published in American Magazines now as "Harajuku street style" is the Gothic Lolita subculture or cosplayers, and not street fashion at all. The Harajuku article really isn't up to par, but there aren't many resources outside of fan pages for it. Denaar 19:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * OR tells me that Harajuku was considerably helped by Dōjunkai Aoyama Apartments. When this was gutted, pulled down, and replaced by yet another interchangeable shopping mall full of the same shops you get in airports selling hugely overadvertised stuff ("Chanel", etc) to silly rich people, Harajuku lost a lot. Though whatever the brand, for decades Harajuku has always been about shopping and consumption. But now perhaps the docile consumariat is supposed to think that shopping for frocks is "hip" or "edgy". Counterculture all the way to the ATM. -- Hoary 14:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Japanese fashion
The criticism cited in this article of these four groovy babes, or of Stefani's use of them, strikes me as underinformed or silly or both. Still, that's just my opinion. I'd love to point out that the geisha of today don't look anything like these four, but I don't do so, for any of several reasons. And these seemed reasons to delete this well intended addition. However, I added a link to Japanese street fashion, for those who'd care to look it up. In general I'm not in favor of linking from quotations (indeed, I think the MoS rules against it), but here it seems harmless. -- Hoary (talk) 12:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't say "underinformed" so much as "really really sensitive", by which I mean - I have only noticed women within the Asian community in America complaining about it (Cho, Ahn, etc.), and their main line of complaint that's consistent seems to be "it utilizes the fetishy stereotype of Asian women as submissive, giggly bimbos"; this is something that apparently young Asian women in America nowadays do deal with (at least when going to bars and clubs or trying to date non-Asians, at any rate), men assuming they'll be somehow submissive or some such, just because they're Asian. However, one little article I ran across while looking up stuff related to this group did describe it in terms of a sort of fetish as well as a stereotypical assumption based on supposed traits of certain well-known Asian cultures (Japan, China, etc.), with the whole Harajuku Girls/Gwen Stefani thing being basically implied to be just a symptom of a larger societal issue that Asians have to contend with. Though it's not really well-discussed on cable news or anything like that, it IS kind of interesting, the more I read about it. I'm not an Asian-American, so it had never occurred to me that they have to deal with these kind of annoying assumptions about what they're like. In light of all that, though I myself had considered it just "weird" or "silly" as far as Gwen's little Harajuku obsession goes, it does actually make sense to me now that they might not like the Harajuku Girls or the way Stefani uses them in her PR and stuff. I do think most of the criticism of the group and Stefani is coming from Asian-Americans though, and knowing this can help put some of it in perspective a bit I think. (By the way, thanks for including the link to Japanese street fashion, I think that's a good idea, particularly since some people might be trying to find that when they stumble across the article) <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 07:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090101131323/http://lamb.kuuchuu.net/?baby to http://lamb.kuuchuu.net/?baby
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title: Talk:Harajuku Girls


text:
Category talk:Former provinces of Thailand

copy from User_talk:Tobias Conradi

I don't think it makes sense to have substubs, which de facto are nothing else but redirects to the present day province of Cambodia, or the district which is the successor of the former province. At the beginning of the 20th century these provinces were more-or-less just the "capital" town, the surrounding territory was only sparsly populated, not like the modern day provinces - as described in Monthon or Provinces of Thailand these provinces ceased to exist during the conversion into the modern administrative units. Thus IMHO all which would be said in Siamreap Province or Loam Sak Province is nothing but the history section of the present day entity. Only if that section would get too long it IMHO makes sense to split it into two articles. andy 22:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I like to see on one view what happened to XY Province. Redirect do not do this. And I like the category:Former provinces of Thailand, which gives a quick overview of not anymore existing provinces. IMO it enriches WP. Whether historic provinces of Thailand would be a better title I don't know. What I would like to see one day is templates for these entities, stating creating time, population, area, etc. similiar to current entities. There are also country pages for former countries. IMO the same for subdivisions is nice. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:45, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

To compare with Germany - it makes sense to have articles of the no longer existing districts, e.g. Monschau (district). However it does not make sense to have a article Aachen (district) and a Aachen (district, before 1975), just because the boundary has changed, as the former is the direct successor of the second. Similar things happened with these former provinces (at that time Mueang, not yet changwat), some became entities of the neighbour countries, other got reduced to Amphoe or even Tambon. A category of substub articles does not make sense IMHO, the goal of wikipedia is not to have millions of one-sentence articles - a simple list with some description would serve the goal better. I even started to create such a list at User:Ahoerstemeier/Former Thai provinces, but as it is very difficult to find english language texts which list all Mueang, and clearly list which Mueang were directly subordinate of the capital Bangkok, and which other were under supervision of another Mueang. Areas are impossible to find as the boundaries weren't fixed in a modern style; complete census data only starts after the reorganization of the provinces was completed. I have no problem if someone really finds a lot of information of the Siamese times of Siamreap and then writes a separate article because it'd make the article on the present day province unreadable long, my problem is to create substubs without real contents beyond what a redirect would do and without much hope for enlargement in the foreseeable future, just to have more articles, or to fill a category. BTW: a redirect can be member in a category as well... andy 23:03, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The "Aachen (district, before 1975)" thing was as a problem in my mind allready. I still have no answer that I would like. Maybe my rule here is: name change or/and ownership change (country change). I will stop creating new articles. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
The Pagan Beliefs Surrounding Christmas/The Date Jesus was Born

Was Jesus born on December 25?
The Bible doesn't explicitly state the date of Jesus' birth, but it does give clues. Luke 2:8-14 speaks of shepherds living outdoor and tending to a flock of sheep. The text reads, "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Some people have concluded that this would be an unlikely practice in the month of December, for it is argued that the weather conditions would be too cold to live outside or tend to a flock of sheep.

On the other hand, the lands immediately to the east of Bethlehem begin to descend sharply down toward the Dead Sea, so that it is much warmer, even in December. Shepherds would not keep their sheep in the immediate vicinity of Bethlehem at any time of the year since sheep are always kept away from farmlands so as to avoid the sheep eating crops. It is therefore reasonable that the birth of Christ took place at any time of the year, including December.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Book of Luke tells us that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, [Luke 1:26]. The book also tells us when John was conceived so it is possible to approximate the time of John's birth...and that of Jesus.

John's father, Zechariah, served as a priest in the division of Abijah, [Luke 1:5]. His priestly duty entailed one week of temple service every year plus three more weeks during the three yearly festivals.

His division was the eighth so his period of temple service began in the eighth week of the year, [I Chronicles 24:10]. The Hebrew year, being lunar, began in the spring around late March early April. The eighth week would then generally fall around the first of June the way we show the months of the year on our calendar.

Luke 1:23-24 tells us that Elizabeth, John's mother, became pregnant right after Zechariah's service in the temple. This would have been mid June....approximately. This means that John the Baptist would have been born around mid March....or close to Passover. Jesus would have been conceived in John's sixth gestational month by the Holy Spirit, [Luke 1:26] which would have been December....so Jesus would have been born around the middle of September. This event would have probably taken place about the time of the last Hebrew Holiday of Sukkot,(Feast of Tabernacles). Since everyone was expected to travel to Jerusalem for the three annual feasts this is probably the real reason why there was no room in the inn.

During the Feast Days the normal population of Jerusalem, 120,000, would probably swell to well over 1,500,000 folks. This would not be the case in the Month of December as there were no annual Feast Days then. Bethlehem, being a "suburb" of Jerusalem would likely fill up quickly with the overflow. This time would also be consistent with the shepherds still in the fields during September. The weather in Israel during December can be quite cold so flocks are usually brought into shelter no later than the middle of October.

The 25th of December date is not scriptural and as you can see by the above evidence is not likely.


text:
Roland Zaninetti

Roland Zaninetti (born 1 May 1936) is a Swiss field hockey player. He competed in the men's tournament at the 1960 Summer Olympics.

title: Roland Zaninetti


text:
Latin/Chapter 2 Verse

Using a Dictionary
Foremost, Latin verbs are listed using the present indicative first person singular active construct of the verb. For example, to find the meaning of the verb amāre, you must find amō listed in the dictionary. Some verbs like esse and ferre are highly irregular and use different stems to form the perfect tenses.

Nouns are usually much easier. They are always given in the nominative singular. If you see a noun such as vōcem and do not know what it is, do not fret. If you look for voc- in the dictionary, you will not find what you are looking for. The ending -em typically belongs to the third-declension accusative; thus, be aware that third-declension nouns have radically changing stems. Those that have the consonant c or g usually have the consonant x in the nominative singular. Thus the nominative singular of vōcem is vōx, and rēx becomes rēgem in the accusative singular. There are plenty of other simple rules which you will learn through experience.

Words that do not conjugate or decline (like prepositions and particles) are listed under their only form.

Vocabulary

 * 1) affectus, -ūs, m., goodwill
 * 2) confessiō, -ōnis, f., confession
 * 3) dē, from, about, concerning
 * 4) liber, librī, m., book
 * 5) malus -a -um, evil, bad
 * 6) placeō -ēre + dative, to please (placuīsse is a perfect infinitive)
 * 7) filia, -ae f., daughter
 * 8) puella, -ae f., girl

Other Difficulties

 * 1) quod ad mē attinet, as far as I'm concerned
 * 2) cum scriberentur, when they were written (imperfect passive subjuntive)
 * 3) quid sentiant, what they think (present subjunctive in indirect question)
 * 4) ipsī viderint, (loosely) they will see in their own way (future perfect)
 * 5) eōs placēre sciō, accusative-infinitive construction for indirect statement: "I know they [the books] please"

title: Latin/Chapter 2 Verse


text:
ALA Promotions

ALA Promotions was a boxing promotions company based in Cebu, Philippines. It is known for promoting prominent Filipino boxers including world champions Donnie Nietes and Milan Melindo.

History
ALA Boxing was established in 1985 in Cebu by businessman Antonio L. Aldeguer, whose initials "ALA" are the namesake of the sports firm. ALA Boxing through ALA Promotions first rose to prominence in the 1990s after they have organized boxing matches featuring Edito Villamor and Gerry Peñalosa.

In 2006, Michael Aldeguer took over as the chairman and CEO of ALA.

ALA partnered with Golden Boy Promotions to produce the Battle of Cebu in 2008, which featured the tie of Filipino boxer Z Gorres against Fernando Montiel of Mexico at the Cebu City Sports Complex, as well as matches between Filipino and Mexican boxes in Sacramento, California. ALA also had a partnership with Top Rank and has organized matches in the United Arab Emirates as well.

In the 2010s, ALA promoted ties between Filipino boxers including Donnie Nietes and Nonito Donaire, against foreign fighters in its Pinoy Pride series it produced with ABS-CBN Sports.

In 2020, ALA's broadcast partner ABS-CBN ceased operations due to the non-renewal of the media company's franchise. This along with the COVID-19 pandemic forced the permanent closure of ALA Promotions although its affiliate gymnasium chain business, ALA Gym remained operational.

Notable boxers
The following are some of the boxers who were affiliated with ALA Boxing:

 * AJ Banal
 * Rey Bautista
 * Nonito Donaire
 * Z Gorres
 * Melvin Jerusalem
 * Mark Magsayo
 * Milan Melindo
 * Donnie Nietes
 * Albert Pagara
 * Jason Pagara
 * Gerry Peñalosa
 * Merlito Sabillo
 * Jeo Santisima
 * Genesis Servania
 * Jonas Sultan
 * Arthur Villanueva

title: ALA Promotions


text:
Mukul Sharma (writer)

Mukul Sharma (14 August 1949 – 1 March 2019) was an Indian writer and journalist. He wrote columns and articles on subjects varying from science to films for various newspapers and journals. Some of his short stories are adapted into films. He had acted in few films.

Biography
Sharma was born in a family of an army officer. He studied in six schools across India. He graduated in English literature from Asutosh College in Calcutta (now Kolkata).

After completing studies, he developed an interest in science. He started writing columns and articles on subjects varying from science to films for various newspapers and journal. He moved to Mumbai in 1986 and served as an editor of ''Science Today.  At that time, it had been renamed as 2001'', in celebration of the arrival of the new millennium. He wrote a column Mindsport which appeared first in The Illustrated Weekly of India and later in The Sunday Times. The column was published for 25 years before its end on 5 August 2007. It had gained a cult following. He wrote science fiction as well as supernatural fiction.

He also had a brief appearance in his first wife Aparna Sen's 1981 film 36 Chowringhee Lane. In 1984, he debuted as an actor in Sen's film Parama. He played role of a young photographer named Rahul.

His several short stories are adapted in films. 2013 supernatural thriller film Ek Thi Daayan, starring his daughter Konkona Sen Sharma, is adapted from his short story Mobius Trips. It was co-produced by Vishal Bhardwaj who also made two more films: Dream Sequence, about a woman who dreams about waking up but has not woken up, as well as Ghosts, a murder mystery. Konkona Sen Sharma directed 2016 film A Death in the Gunj was based on his short story which in turn was based on an incident during his visit to McCluskieganj.

Sharma died on 1 March 2019 in New Delhi.

Personal life
Sharma married Aparna Sen and had two daughters, Kamalini Chatterjee and Konkona Sen Sharma. They divorced and he later married Binita Chatterjee.

title: Mukul Sharma (writer)


text:
Template talk:Verify source

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Do not move. Start the AWB before doing the move - not after. —Wknight94 (talk) 23:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move
For easiness of use, I propose to move Template:Verify source and Template:Verify credibility to Template:Verify (overwriting the redirect).  Λυδ α  cιτγ  17:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Struck out second proposal for now.  Λυδ α  cιτγ  15:39, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind.  Λυδ α  cιτγ  23:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Strong Oppose: Huh?! Verify currently redirects to Not verified which is completely different.  This move would change a big blue bar at the top of a zillion articles into a little footnote which says "verification needed".  Am I missing something?  —Wknight94 (talk) 16:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct. I assumed it would be a few redirects I could AWB, but it's actually a few thousand. Take back that request.  Λυδ α  cιτγ  23:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Question. There are three active templates now; unless I misunderstand this seems to reduce them to two. What functionality overlaps and what is lost? --Dhartung | Talk 03:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I tried to do everything at once and ended up with a mess. First I'd like to simply move this template. Once that's done, I'd like to propose merging Template:Verify credibility with the new Template:Verify. But for now, I'd just like to have this moved, so it's easier to type, which will encourage correct use of this as opposed to fact or citeneeded.  Λυδ α  cιτγ  15:39, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposed edit to point to current rather than superseded policy
editprotected This template currently points to Verifiability, which has been superseded by Attribution. --Yksin 23:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. I think WP:ATT is a huge mistake, but it's allegedly policy now, so we should stick with it unless/until it gets reforked back into WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:COI. <sigh> —  SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Yeah, I liked it the old way too, but whaddayergonnado.  Proto   ►  18:11, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Purpose
The purpose of this template is not clear. The wording points to using it to request a check against a source that is already cited, sort of Template:Request quote but
 * if it is doubtful but not too harmful to the whole article, you may use tag to ask for source verification.

makes it as a marker for doubtful info that may lack citation. --Error 22:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't really understand what your question or disagreement is. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 22:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I think I understand the question, assume somebody writes "John is the king of France[1]", but when you look at the given source you can not verify that this is claim is made by the source. Thanks to the above comment I now know that Template:request quote can be used for this, but the names aren't very intuitive, and request quote isn't very widely advertised considering how important it is to verify that the cited sources really back up the material they claim to support. I think all that is needed is to point out in the documentation of this page that there exists a template called "request quote" for that purpose. --Merzul 20:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Merzul's comment above; Template:Request quotation would be good to mention.

Also, I find this to be misleading: "Use this tag to label text which appears doubtful or false, in order to request source verification" (emphasis mine). Verification is confirming that info from a (hopefully well-cited) source has been accurately (and neutrally) represented by an article. So this template is ostensibly for requesting that statements made in the article merely be checked against their sources. But by emphasizing plausibility & truthfulness, which don't directly have anything to do with Wikipedia's verifiability policy, I believe it leads some to think the template is for questioning the quality and truthfulness of the sources themselves, rather than questioning how accurately and neutrally the sources have been characterized in Wikipedia. I just saw it used that way on a page I watch, at least. So I suggest we change the lede to something more like the following: Use this template to tag statements which appear to mischaracterize their sources and to request verification of those statements against their sources. What do you think? —mjb (talk) 04:42, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree, and over seven years later! have made such changes. -- PBS (talk) 09:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikiproject Inline templates proposed
WikiProject Council/Proposals. I've been meaning to do this for a while. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 16:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Check
is being used by some editors. Can we write in the page that this can be used also or that it's an old form no longer used? thanks - Ctbolt 04:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't bother. Check redirects to Verify source; bots that fix redirects of this sort will take care of it (try adding Citation needed somewhere; you'll see it become Fact within a few days at most, generally). — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 05:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It matters when you're not familiar with the template and you go looking for help on it - and you realise that there is no help on it. Just confirming that it's legitimate.  I'll add a 'Related redirects' to the page similar to template:Fact. - Ctbolt 06:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Date?
What is the syntax for applying the date when using this template? When I use this template it usually does not apply the date, but at least one time it did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk • contribs) 02:12, 9 April 2007

 * This template has no date-related mechanism. Perhaps you are thinking of fact? Gimmetrow 02:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

 * It does now. But it is fine to leave for the bots to add the date. Rich Farmbrough, 09:05 23 January 2008 (GMT).

Cat. fix
Need to add: (without the nowiki of course). — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont]   ‹(-¿-)› 03:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This goes on document page, not protected. Gimmetrow 03:22, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Awkward multilining
When at the end of a line, the square bracket does not wrap with the word, which makes the tag look very awkward and scruffy. Could this be avoided by including the square brackets within the span? Verisimilus  T  22:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Please take this up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Inline Templates. —  SMcCandlish  [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 10:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Related redirects
Perhaps a sysop could add this redirect I created,, to the related redirects section below? Lord Sesshomaru
 * Done, Garion96 (talk) 21:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Much appreciated. Lord Sesshomaru

Added type paragmenter
I added a type parameter to the template, so that

 * becomes . — Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 13:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * becomes . — Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 13:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

interwiki request
Can you add interwiki link ja:Template:要検証 or create documentation subpage? thanks. --<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ --CapitalR (talk) 21:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

editprotected
could you please add to the parameters so it gives a list of all articles needing factual verification for a bot I am building. Most other templates like include this.
 * cat = Category:All pages needing factual verification

 * ✅ But categories should go on the documentation page, which is unprotected. Cheers, PeterSymonds (talk)  08:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but you haven't done a thing :-|, I ask for this parameter as it is integrated into the template syntax and should have been set in the first place. Atyndall93 | talk 11:00, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It was added to the documentation page - see and the categories listed on the template page. I note the category you request does not exist (yet). —   Tivedshambo  (t/c) 19:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but no one has yet to understand my request. I need the category added using that parameter to the actual template so it does not add the template itself to the category but all pages it is transcluded to so that I have a list of all pages that that template is transcluded on so that can query that category and retrieve the 5 oldest pages. Could someone please do that and stop telling me that it should go on the doc page? Because that doesn't work. Atyndall93 | talk 00:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Done --Stephen 01:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Editprotected request involving this template
This message is to inform people monitoring this talk page that there is an "editprotected" request involving this and several other templates at Template talk:! cymru.lass (hit me up)⁄(background check) 20:21, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Cymru.lass, 4 February 2011
Will someone please put  in the template, right after  ? This will categorize the page in Category:Pages with incorrectly substituted templates if it is substed. Thanks! --- c y m r u . l a s s  (talk me, stalk me) 02:36, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:26, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Protect it then !
Finding vandalism on this "protected" page, I deleted it - or tried to. Not realising how the page had been "protected" I did a poor job of it. However, I hope that whoever is "protecting" this page will, through this, now notice the vandalism their "protection" failed to "protect" it against and delete it properly. FWIW IMO if "protection" not only offers no protection but also prevents editors from protecting pages from vanadalism then it is a totally redundant device. LookingGlass (talk) 06:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Reason parameter
I'd like to suggest adding a reason parameter, for adding optional additional text explaining the reason for the template. This is a parameter used in template:citationneeded and others. An example that came up where I'd find this useful: a sentence cited two sources, one was a book I can't access, and a personal website. I removed the citation to the personal website, because it wasn't a reliable source, but can't determine if the book verifies the information in the sentence on its own. I want to leave some indication that it should be double-checked. Agyle (talk) 10:18, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 24 February 2018
Please add, per a nomination by  {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:20, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done — JJMC89  (T·C) 02:33, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 24 February 2018
Please wrap the deletion notice into  tags. The template is now transcluding the deletion notice in all the articles it is used. –Ammarpad (talk) 11:44, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:39, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Transclusion of tfd tags in articles is completely intentional and not something that needs to be fixed. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 16:39, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 7 March 2018
PLease remove the from the template. Nihlus 08:19, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done by — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:31, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Within or outside tags?
It should be noted that at the time this section was created, the template page makes no distinction as to whether the template should be placed within the tags, external to the tags, or if both are valid under which circumstances. Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 03:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 October 2021 by DesertPipeline
Hello,

Please can a reason parameter be added to this template, so the tooltip text can be changed? There is a suggestion for it from 2014 on this talk page, but nobody responded to it. I presume the change is uncontroversial.

Specific request, in case the previous is insufficient

Please change

to

Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 15:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ * Pppery * it has begun... 16:05, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) I have updated the documentation accordingly. DesertPipeline (talk) 16:17, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Verify source


text:
Alex Hoberg

Alex Hoberg (born 27 November 2001) is an Australian sport shooter. In 2017, he won the gold medal in the men's 10 meter air rifle event at the 2017 Commonwealth Shooting Championships held in Brisbane, Australia.

In 2018, he represented Australia at the 2018 Commonwealth Games held in Gold Coast, Australia and he finished in 4th place in the men's 10 metre air rifle event. In the same year, he also represented Australia at the 2018 Summer Youth Olympics held in Buenos Aires, Argentina. In 2019, he won three gold medals, two silver medals and one bronze medal at the 2019 Oceania Shooting Championships held in Sydney, Australia.

Hoberg represented Australia at the 2020 Summer Olympics in Tokyo, Japan. He competed in the men's 10 metre air rifle and mixed 10 metre air rifle team events. He did not score sufficient points in either event to advance past qualification. Detailed results can be found in Australia at the 2020 Summer Olympics.

title: Alex Hoberg


text:
Edita Šujanová

Edita Šujanová (born 23 May 1985) is a Czech basketball player who competed in the 2008 Summer Olympics.

title: Edita Šujanová


text:
Bahrain at the 1984 Summer Olympics

Bahrain competed in the Olympic Games for the first time at the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, United States. Ten competitors, all men, took part in eight events in four sports.

Modern pentathlon
Three male pentathletes represented Bahrain in 1984.

 * Individual
 * Saleh Sultan Faraj
 * Abdul Rahman Jassim
 * Nabeel Saleh Mubarak

 * Team
 * Saleh Sultan Faraj
 * Abdul Rahman Jassim
 * Nabeel Saleh Mubarak

Swimming
Men's 100m Freestyle
 * Hamad Bader
 * Heat — 58.16 (→ did not advance, 61st place)

Men's 100m Butterfly
 * Esa Fadel
 * Heat — 1:13.27 (→ did not advance, 52nd place)

title: Bahrain at the 1984 Summer Olympics


text:
Portal:Southeast Asian languages

 Southeast Asian Languages Division Welcome to the Southeast Asian Languages Division of the Schools of Language and Literature and Linguistics.

The primary aim of this division since its founding has been the study, preservation and promotion of the languages native to the Southeast Asian region through instruction, research and publication.

 Courses and Projects
 * An introduction to the Southeast Asian languages
 * A brief description about the scope of the Division.

 * Vietnamese 1
 * Vietnamese 1 is a course in which students are introduced to simple vocabulary, phrases, and elementary grammatical structures of the language.

 * Filipino 1
 * Filipino 1 is a course in which students are introduced to simple vocabulary, phrases, and elementary grammatical structures of the language.

 * Bahasa 1
 * Bahasa Malaysia 1 is a course in which students are introduced to simple vocabulary, phrases, and elementary grammatical structures of the language.

 Task List Philippine Languages Department

 * Curriculum formulation

Bahasa Malaysia Department

 * Program organization

Bahasa Indonesia Department

 * Recruitment of contributors

Division-wide

 * Creation of more departments such as those for Vietnamese, Khmer, and Thai upon availability of writers and instructors.

Departments The Division of Southeast Asian Languages is made up of several departments:

 * The Philippine Languages Department

 * The Bahasa Malaysia Department

 * The Bahasa Indonesia Department

 * The Vietnamese Language Department

 Division News
 * Archives

 * Contributors and Students

21 January 2007
 * The Filipino 1 class is currently in need of instructors and editors.
 * The Bahasa Malaysia department is currently in need of instructors and editors.
 * The Bahasa Indonesia department is currently in need of instructors and editors.

22 January 2007
 * We are warmly inviting those with a working knowledge in Vietnamese, Bahasa Indonesia and Malaysia, Tagalog, Visayan, etc. language-wise or literary-wise to contribute ideas, lessons, and articles for this division !

15 February 2007
 * We are proud to launch the Vietnamese Language Department !

title: Portal:Southeast Asian languages


text:
Talk:Filmmaking Basics/Thumbnail Storyboard/Step by Step/aaaaaaaaaaaa

What do the 12 "A's" in the page's title mean? Name differentiation? Something else? --Remi 04:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


text:
diabo

Etymology
, displacing the collateral forms, and , from ,  (probably borrowed as a semi-learned term), itself from. .

Noun

 * 1)  devil; demon; fiend creature from Hell

Noun

 * 1) an evil or perverse person
 * 2) a mischievous person
 * 1) a mischievous person

Interjection

 * 1)  damn! expresses anger, irritation or disappointment

Usage notes

 * Thought to be more blasphemous in the Portugal whilst less blasphemous in the Brazil, Angola and Moçambique.

title: diabo


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/UserReports/Lavili

Links

 * jameslane.me resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the domainredlist.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.

 * mbfwmadrid.ifema.es resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * mbfwmadrid.ifema.es is hosted on ifema.es
 * ifema.es resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the domainredlist.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.

 * naanii.es resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * COIBot domainredlist search for link Lavili gives:
 * naanii.es (Automonitor: reported to en:MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist (diff))
 * naanii.es (Automonitor: reported to en:MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist (diff))
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.

 * naaniiglobal.com resolves to [//<IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>]
 * Link is not on the blacklist.
 * COIBot domainredlist search for link Lavili gives:
 * naaniiglobal.com (Automonitor: reported to en:MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist (diff))
 * naaniiglobal.com (Automonitor: reported to en:MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist (diff))
 * Link is not on the Monitorlist.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.
 * None of the mentioned users is on the blacklist.
 * Link is not on the whitelist.
 * Link is not on the monitor list.

Additions

 * Displayed all 35 additions.


text:
Fast N' Loud season 14

This is a list of episodes for Fast N' Loud Season 14. Season 14 started on March 4, 2018.

title: Fast N' Loud season 14


text:
Talk:Duško Tadić

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Duško Tadić. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091229215440/http://www.iilj.org/courses/documents/Prosecutorv.Tadic.pdf to http://www.iilj.org/courses/documents/Prosecutorv.Tadic.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bim.ba/en/124/10/11923

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:48, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Duško Tadić


text:
Talk:OmegaWiki

OK, OmegaWiki folks. Here's ya'll some extra "elbow room" here at WV... -- CQ 23:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:OmegaWiki


text:
Alex Greenwood (disambiguation)

Alex Greenwood (born 1993) is an English women's professional footballer.

Alex Greenwood may also refer to:
 * Alex Greenwood (footballer, born 1933), English footballer
 * Alex Greenwood, a musician in the band Sports Team

title: Alex Greenwood (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Robotix (toyline)

Not Transformers
Robotix is not part of Transformers. Decades later a Transformers Animated guide book made reference to it, and that’s it. Presenting Robotix as a Transformers spin-off is simply Transformers fan fiction and should be treated as vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 15:39, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Robotix (toyline)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elizabeth Shin

The result was rename to Death of Elizabeth Shin. Nearly all !voters seem to agree that the information contained with-in has elements of an event. The consensus, even taking into account delete !voters who might not have revisted the discussion and thus might feel differently, seems to be that while it is an event, it is a notable event. Barkeep49 (talk) 03:25, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Elizabeth Shin

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Classic case of WP:BIO1E and WP:NOTMEMORIAL. While her death was tragic, she does not meet requirements for an article. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Delete per nom. Mccapra (talk) 00:19, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete; a tragic accident, but neither the student, the event, or the lawsuit stemming from it rise above routine news coverage. TJRC (talk) 00:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per above and nom.   Oshawott 12  ==== Talk to me!  01:05, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Tragic but WP:NOTMEMORIAL....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:18, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Thsmi002 (talk) 11:30, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Ordinarily this would call for deletion - while the counterarguments against the WP:BIO1E-based  deletion are well taken, most people also consider WP:NOTNEWS a problem and having a lot of sources does not automatically invalidate that concern - but as it is only a headcount carries the delete argument and all non-deletes came in the last few days; thus relisting in case that there was a shift in consensus underway during the last few days.
 * Delete Per everyone else.Andrew Base (talk) 14:57, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not news.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete The accident is heart breaking, but neither the girl nor the event satisfy the conditions . Nikoo.Amini (talk) 00:09, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename I'm going to go against the grain here a bit on this one but I think while the person herself doesn't meet notability requirements, the situation and following coverage may. A quick Google related to the Shin v MIT lawsuit suggests that it may have been a notable enough event, with coverage continuing even in 2017. However I agree with above the Elizabeth herself is not notable enough. I would support a move to Shin vs Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a minor reorganization and addition of info to fit the title. I see that even recent suicides at MIT reference back to this case in news coverage. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 07:21, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename or Keep - The fire was definitely notable, with significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. Please bear in mind that WP:BIO1E states that if we had an article about this incident, then this page should be deleted and redirected to that article. But since we don't have such a page, this article is appropriate. So from a policy standpoint, the only two options I can see are (1) rework this to be a page about the incident or (2) keep. May His Shadow Fall Upon You     Talk  14:35, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename. The fire and its subsequent lawsuit were both notable. A single article either titled after the fire or after the lawsuit would be encyclopedic. Obviously any biographical information about Ms. Shin outside of that context would need to be removed.4meter4 (talk) 22:27, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Death of Elizabeth Shin. This event and its aftermath have attracted significant, persistent coverage in multiple independent reliable sources, satisfying WP:GNG. That's what this article is actually about, anyway, despite its title. The only biographical details it contains are reasonable background material. Madness Darkness 16:09, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:11, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge This is an MIT problem, not an Elizabeth Shin problem, having read the article. Trillfendi (talk) 16:20, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename and Keep. Per My Name is Madness. Lefcentreright  Talk  (plz ping) 16:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename and keep per some others. Sustained coverage overpowers WP:NOTNEWS. ミラP 00:54, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment- I oppose the new proposal to keep and rename. If we are now evaluating this as an event rather than a biography, then WP:LASTING applies. No one has identified a lasting effect of her death.--Rusf10 (talk) 03:08, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * A 2017 article referenced back to this case stating "A Massachusetts trial court judge ruled in 2005 that an MIT housemaster and dean could be held responsible for the death of a woman who lit herself on fire in her dorm room." and this 2018 article references the Shin case saying "The suicide of Elizabeth Shin at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2000, and the lawsuit that followed, prompted colleges and universities to engage in vigorous suicide-prevention efforts." Only a quick 5 minute Google search so I'm sure there's more out there. Also there was similar wide coverage of the suicide of Han Nguyen and following lawsuit at MIT, nyt, globe, reuters etc etc which I absolutely think could be put into a combined article here. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 21:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Keep and Rename, meets WP:GNG and WP:EVENT with plenty of sources covering/discussing this, Shin's  death has led to significant and lasting changes in US educational institutions (as brought out by a number of editors above), agree that Death of Elizabeth Shin is an appropriate title for this article. Coolabahapple (talk) 00:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and Rename as suggested, since the consequences have had lasting changes.Djflem (talk) 20:15, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BIO1E. Just having14 sources and concerning a well known educational institution does not make it an encyclopedic article. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:54, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per My Name is Madness. Bookscale (talk) 11:09, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


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Management Of Community Acquired Pneumonia

Diagnostic Tests

 * CBCD, electrolytes, glucose, BUN, Cr
 * ABG on RA
 * blood cultures (draw 2 before treatment, at least 10 min. apart)
 * sputum gram stain and culture
 * CXR (PA and lateral)
 * acid fast stain of sputum if cough > 1 month or suspicious CXR for TB
 * thoracocentesis if pleural effusions present
 * stain, culture, pH, leukocyte count, differential

General Management

 * analgesics/antipyretics
 * ensure adequate hydration
 * oxygen therapy to O2 sat ≥ 90%
 * consult RT, PT, OT, speech language pathologist, dietician as needed

Hospitalization

 * When to admit
 * Age >65 yrs
 * Decreased immunity (cancer, diabetes, AIDS, splenectomy)
 * Mental status changes
 * Increased A-a gradient
 * Two or more lobes involved
 * No home
 * Organ failure (↑Cr, bone marrow suppression, severe hypotension, liver failure)
 * WBC > 30,000/mm3 or < 4000/mm3 (sepsis)

Treatment

 * if no pathogen identified, empirically treat
 * NO COMORBIDITIES: po macrolide or doxycycline
 * WITH COMORBIDITIES: po beta-lactam plus macrolide, or fluoroquinolone, quinolones (levofloxacin)
 * if suspect ASPIRATION: amoxicillin-clavulanate or levofloxacin and metronidazole
 * treat empirically until pathogen identified by sputum or blood culture, then use specific therapy

 * OUTPATIENT: treat for 10 - 14 days
 * Followup with GP, CXR in 8-12 weeks

 * INPATIENT: treatment length based on response to therapy, comorbid illnesses, complications
 * usually treat bacterial infections until patient is afebrile for >72 hours
 * resolution of respiratory symptoms, fever, PaO2 level, WBC, and findings on serial CXR

 * give influenza and pneumococcal vaccine on day of discharge
 * smoke cessation

Poor prognostic factors
, renal
 * age, men, nursing home
 * comorbidities: cancer, liver, CHF, CVDTV
 * O/E: LOC, RR, BP, pulse, temperature
 * labs: pH, pO2, ↓hematocrit, ↑BUN, ↓Na, ↑glucose, pleural effusion


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User:Jt651

Hey there,

My names is Jake and I'm currently an undergraduate at university. I'm a new user currently taking part in a class which looks into collabrative publishing and Wikipedia. As a class, we are looking into the process of how to create, edit and publish material on Wikipedia at a basic level, so please be nice to the work I do. Any help or constructive advise is really appreciated

title: User:Jt651


text:
Talk:Creighton Carvello

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Creighton Carvello. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721154356/http://www.memorablecarvello.co.uk/ to http://www.memorablecarvello.co.uk/

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:41, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Creighton Carvello


text:
Puzzles/Lateral puzzles

Puzzles | Lateral puzzles

Some part of situation is described in each puzzle. You should explain the whole situation. There may be more than one solution, thus take your time to explore the possibilities.

 * Lateral Puzzle 1
 * Lateral Puzzle 2
 * Lateral Puzzle 3
 * Lateral Puzzle 4
 * Lateral Puzzle 5
 * Lateral Puzzle 6
 * Lateral Puzzle 7
 * Lateral Puzzle 8
 * Lateral Puzzle 9
 * Lateral Puzzle 10

title: Puzzles/Lateral puzzles


text:
Elementary Science K/4

Created: 2007 05 14 | Percent completed:

Materials
Drawing paper, Crayons

Procedure
Write the word exercise on the board. Tell the children that the word exercise means doing activities that keep our bodies in shape. When you play kickball, baseball, soccer, or basketball, you are exercising. You are also exercising when you take a walk with a friend or run home after school. Ask the children to discuss their favorite types of exercises or activities and to tell why they enjoy them. List their responses on the blackboard.

Have the children draw pictures of activities or exercises they like to do. Children may enjoy demonstrating for the class some activities they can do.

Procedure
Stretch like a cat - Start on your hands and knees with your back straight. Slowly raise your back up high and hold. Lower your back until it is straight.

Fly like a bird - Start with your hands at your sides. Slowly lift them up behind you as high as you can. Bend your head down. Hold, then relax in standing position.

Yawn like a lion - Kneel, sitting back on your feet with hands on your knees. Lean forward on your knees as you open your eyes and mouth very wide. Stick out your tongue as far as you can. Hold. Roar if you wish. Relax and sit back up.

Kneel like a camel - Kneel on the ground. Rest your right hand on your right heel, and your left hand on your left heel. Raise your chest up, bend your head back, and hold. Return to kneeling position and rest.

Sit like a frog - Sit on the floor with knees bent out and the bottoms of your feet touching each other (Indian style, but with your feet touching instead of ankles crossed). Grab hold of your feet and pull them in toward your body. Gently press your knees toward the floor. Keep your back straight and hold.

Relax like a jellyfish - Lie on the ground on your back. Close your eyes. Relax every part of your body. Pretend that you are made of jelly. Breathe in and out slowly for several minutes.

title: Elementary Science K/4


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Talk:Geraldine Dawson

The section on published research is hagiography
The section on her book length publications is appropriate. The ridiculously long section on her published research, with multiple co-authors, with similar titles and NO digital object identifies or other links is absurd. I am going to remove it, and anyone who feels selected work is worthy of inclusion can add those scholarly journal articles of significance.

For perspective, consider the fact that NO other scientists or physicians, with or without Nobel prizes or other awards, have such lengthy listings of journal article publications in their BLPs!--FeralOink (talk) 09:03, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Geraldine Dawson


text:
beslaan

Etymology
From. Equivalent to.

Verb

 * 1)  to cover, occupy
 * 2)  to surround, envelop
 * 3)  to fog up
 * 4)  to shoe (a horse with horseshoes)
 * 1)  to shoe (a horse with horseshoes)
 * 1)  to shoe (a horse with horseshoes)

title: beslaan


text:
1981 Nivea Tennis Classic

The 1981 Nivea Tennis Classic, also known as the South Pacific Classic was an Association of Tennis Professionals men's tournament held on outdoor grass courts at the Milton Courts in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia that was part of the 1981 Grand Prix tennis circuit. It was the eighth and last edition of the tournament and was held from 5 October until 11 October 1981. Second-seeded Mark Edmondson won the singles title, his third at the event after 1976 and 1978.

Singles
🇦🇺 Mark Edmondson defeated 🇳🇿 Chris Lewis 7–6, 3–6, 6–4
 * It was Edmondson's 3rd singles title of the year and the 6th and final of his career.

Doubles
🇦🇺 Rod Frawley / 🇳🇿 Chris Lewis defeated 🇦🇺 Mark Edmondson / 🇺🇸 Mike Estep 7–5, 4–6, 7–6(7–4)

title: 1981 Nivea Tennis Classic


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RTL3

Retrotransposon Gag like 3 is a protein that in humans is encoded by the RTL3 gene.

Function
This gene is a member of a family of gag-related retrotransposon genes. These genes appear to have lost the ability to retrotranspose; however, their open reading frames have remained intact, which may indicate that these genes have acquired new functions in the cell. Retrotransposon gag-like-3 (RTL3/ZCCHC5/MART3) is one of eleven Sushi-like neogenes identified in the human genome7 RTL3 encodes a 53 kDa protein with a nucleic acid-binding domain (CX2CX4HX4C), gag-like region within the open reading frame and an ssDNA/RNA-binding homeobox-associated leucine zipper motif. It has been reported that RTL3 and SOX-9 co-regulate the expression of COL2A1 in chondrocytes.

title: RTL3


text:
Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson may refer to:

 * Rocky "R. J." Simpson Jr., a Canadian politician who has served in the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories since 2015,
 * Rocky Simpson Sr., his father, who has served in the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories since 2019.

title: Rocky Simpson


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Donna "Keegen" Avery

The result was   delete. Missvain (talk) 05:34, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Donna &

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Non-notable boxing promoter (active from last year) - SPA article full of self promotional hype (I call autobiographical). Some attempt to clean up but please see article Talk page. Peter Rehse (talk) 10:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 10:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Weak delete - the article is a blatant messy attempt to promote a nascent boxing-related career, supported by trying to pump up minor and failed Internet ventures. If there's notability here, it's for the stunt work, and the Diamond in the Raw Action Icon award is the tempting stamp of legitimacy there. But while the award has continued to be presented, I'm not finding the sort of mainstream coverage that would say to us that this award is notable and thus reflects notability. I'm convincable otherwise. --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete Definitely not notable as a boxing promoter. I also don't see notability as a stuntperson or anything else. Coverage is insufficient to meet GNG and article appears to have a COI. I put it as a weak delete in case someone comes along to show film industry notability.Mdtemp (talk) 20:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:02, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:02, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:02, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Delete No indication that she meets any notability criteria. The article fails to show any significant independent coverage and appears to be a lightly edited version of her biography at her company's website. Papaursa (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete As briefly summarized by Peter Rehse. C.dunkin (talk) 10:12, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Bessie Coleman

Bessie Coleman
Voting period ends on 5 Oct 2019  at 00:10:21 (UTC)
 * Reason:Coleman was the first woman of African-American descent and the first of Native American descent to hold a pilot license.
 * Articles in which this image appears:Bessie Coleman
 * FP category for this image:Featured pictures/People/Others
 * Creator:Unknown

 * Support as nominator – --- Coffee  and crumbs  00:10, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support, though some bits are a bit inky black, and I would like to see the original of this. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 6.9% of all FPs 03:10, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I made no changes. My source is here. You are welcome to make changes. --- Coffee  and crumbs  03:16, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Not quite what I meant - I can see it's in the source, but this is something I've seen appear in edited files, and it's a pretty common type of bad edit on the internet. It's not that major here, though, and delist and replace is an option if we get better. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 6.9% of all FPs 04:17, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:21, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Geoffroi  00:55, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. MER-C 16:24, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. -- Basile Morin (talk) 01:22, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

--Armbrust The Homunculus 01:44, 5 October 2019 (UTC)


text:
Talk:slattern

RFV discussion
--Connel MacKenzie 17:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Connel, I genuinely cannot believe you don't know this word (which, I assume, is the reason you're rfving it). I'm sure we can find some nice, old cites if we look hard enough, but for the meantime, let these suffice: gbooks, define:slattern and m-w. --Wytukaze 18:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Clarification: Note that, yes, I have not put cites on either this page or the pages of the other two RFVs I have commented on above (junk and chuff). My only intent is to advise; I simply don't have the time to produce a proper citation. Apologies. --Wytukaze 18:10, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Really. I don't recall ever having heard this word.  Maybe at a Shakespeare festival?  I guess my question then, is, is this archaic, or obsolete?  --Connel MacKenzie 06:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

 * The COED tags it as “dated”, and that’s what I’ve gone with. (1933 is too recent for an “archaic” tag. BTW, what does “obsolete” actually mean?) † Raifʻhār Doremítzwr 12:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I’ve added references, and the second sense is now cited. Great word this. † Raifʻhār Doremítzwr 20:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * rfvpassed Cynewulf 08:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Requests for verification - kept
Kept. See archived discussion of October 2007. 06:41, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

slattern
RFV-sense "A prostitute who attracts customers by walking the streets." Even if a sense "prostitute" can be attested separately from the sense "slut", I'll be intrigued if it's limited to prostitutes who attract customers by walking the streets. - -sche (discuss) 22:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * RFV failed: no quotations provided. As an auxi check: such a specific sense is absent from most online dicts that I checked. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:slattern


text:
Talk:affluent

please add Affluent \Af"flu*ent\, n.    A stream or river flowing into a larger river or into a lake;     a tributary stream.     [1913 Webster] Jidanni 12:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

affluent
rfd-sense: Somebody who is wealthy. No more than any of other terms like this, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Many adjectives that modify "people" function as fused-head nominals. It is essentially grammatical, not lexical. If we kept track of which adjectives could modify people we could insert a usage note. Or we could have the content in Appendix:English adjectives or Appendix:English nominals or Appendix:English noun phrases. DCDuring TALK 00:26, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Keep. It's in several major American dictionaries (RHU, AHD, M-W), and its plural is readily attestable in this sense (though it's nowhere near so common on b.g.c. as a “tributaries” sense that our entry currently lacks). It might warrant  or, though. —Ruakh TALK 02:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, so I forgot to check that. Rather than take this to TR, what about the definition? In the world of upscale marketing, a great deal is made of distinctions between those who are wealthy (wealthies?) and those who are merely affluent. Obviously our contributor didn't make the distinction so there might be more than one aspect to the underlying sense. In fact there might be more than one aspect dimension: income, wealth, discretionary income (?), lifestyle (?). DCDuring TALK 18:16, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * RFV or keep directly if there's no doubt that it would pass an RFV. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Kept. If you wish to RFV/TR/RFC it, by all means do so. —msh210℠ (talk) 17:58, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:affluent