text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/National Commission

The result was   Convert to a WP:DABCONCEPT. — Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:38, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

National Commission

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

All the entries on this dab page are partial matches. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:57, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Keep, in a modified form: although partial title matches, any "National Commission" is likely to be referred to by just that name within its particular area ("the 1953 National Commission reported that ..."), so some sort of dab is useful. The bigger problem is that this is wildly incomplete. Another problem is that it doesn't identify the country for each entry. A reader may well be looking for a "National Commission" in country X, on topic Y for which they don't know the exact wording. A list which indicated the country and date of each commission would be a useful finding aid. Maybe it would be a list, or a set index, rather than a National Commission, but it would be useful. I've added a couple of "See also" links to the page, to help in the interim.  Pam  D  11:56, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've had a go at starting a list (or is it a set index?): see User:PamD/List of National Commissions. I might add a sort key so it can sort on the actual topic words. For the moment I'm assembling it in A-Z order, starting with the listing from look from, and will then add the others from in title. Any comments welcome on its talk page.
 * I suggest that we strip the dab page down to the two links currently in "See also", because it so misleadingly incomplete. If a near-complete list, such as that I'm working on, is created, then it might be appropriate either for "National Commission" to redirect to that list, or for the mini-dab page to include a link to the list. Pam  D  15:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. Renaming/making it a list gets around my partial title match objections. Just so it isn't a dab page. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:36, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached. Relisting comment: Perhaps can have her work done quickly and then this can be deleted. Otherwise, more input is welcomed. JodyBtalk 00:39, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, classic example of a partial title match. I don't see a need/use for a disambiguation or list of this type because when anyone says "national commission" by itself, there is normally context. Tavix | Talk  23:15, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JodyBtalk 00:39, 17 February 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Convert to a WP:DABCONCEPT page. What is a "National Commission"? It almost always seems to be a body assembled at the national level to address a particular issue. This is useless as a disambiguation page because there will be many non-notable or hypothetical national commissions addressing fleeting issues, and it is unlikely that we will ever have all of these, but we can still explain what the concept means. bd2412  T 02:58, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Convert either a DABCONCEPT or list/SIA. Widefox ; talk 22:41, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see how an article can be written about a National Commission. There are simply too many country-specific examples and no unifying characteristics. That being said, I would keep it as a disambiguation page so that people can find the specific information they are looking for. However, if someone can convince me that an article can be written about national commissions in general, then I will change my vote to convert the article to a broad concept article. That being said, I would not want to delete the page if no conversion takes place.PointsofNoReturn (talk) 01:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


text:
kvartil

Noun

 * 1) quartile

Noun

 * 1) a unit of measurement equal to one-quarter of a barrel, a firkin
 * 2) a small barrel
 * 3)  quarter
 * 4)  a unit of measurement equal to six inches; one-quarter of an

source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: kvartil


text:
File:Harpsympitars.jpg

Summary
Two Carlson harp sympitars, taken together at the Harp Guitar Gathering in Salem, OR. (author - Jeffrey Titus)

title: File:Harpsympitars.jpg


text:
Wikipedia:Peer review/Toyota Tercel/archive1

Toyota Tercel
I am aiming to make this into a featured article, so advice is appreciated. I've started trying to rewrite it, but there are some problems. Any help is appreciated. --TheM62Manchester 11:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The copyrighted images require a fair use rational - there's at least two such images. WilyD 18:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the first thing we should do is get rid of the fair use images, and then I think we should get rid of the timeline, as it's not that informative and takes up space. --ApolloBoy 19:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Timeline? The timeline is already it's own article - it can't get any smaller. WilyD 19:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I know that, but I think we should delete it as it's practically redundant. Awards can be mentioned in the main article (i.e. "The Tercel won Award A from 1988-1993). --ApolloBoy 22:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Automated suggestions are provided here, that you may wish to refer for some useful style guidelines. - Mailer Diablo 17:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


text:
User:Vuara/Characters vs phonetic writing systems

 * http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/cangjie.htm
 * http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-52/mail-archive/msg00016.html
 * http://www.chinese-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=153

+++

wix

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:57 am   Post subject: Characters vs phonetic writing systems ChouDoufu wrote this another thread but I am quoting it here to start a new topic, because it is an interesting and important issue. Let the debate begin...

ChouDoufu wrote: Yes, learning Chinese characters are difficult. That's the only thing I agree with though. There are a lot of people who have a belief that writing systems should be phonetic (I find it incredibly ironic that a native English speaker is praising the English phonetic system. English phonetics don't make a lot of sense either--under pronunciation rules in english "ghoti" can sound like "fish). Well, obviously if a language had a phonetic alphabet, it makes it easier to write and read. But to say that All languages need to be phonetic is just ridiculous. What makes Chinese appealing to so many people are the characters. Without the characters, Chinese would be destroying thousands of years of history.

I don't think they should do that in order to appease people who want to learn the language. I've always found characters to be rewarding and intruiging.

Yes it's difficult, but it's the difficulties that make things interesting. kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:31 am   Post subject: I pretty much agree with Chou Doufu. Also I'd like to add that one advantage characters have over a phonetic writing system is that with characters, readers immediately get the meaning in his or her head. It's almost like looking at a painting rather than just text. Good examples can be found in Japanese where the writing system is a mixture of characters (Kanji) and phoentic letters (kanas).

However, a phoentic system is also extremely important and also has its advantages. This is why the Zhuyin Fuhao was first invented in the early 1900's and then later Hanyu Pinyin. roddy Site Admin

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 798 Location: Beijing Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:34 am   Post subject: Thanks for starting the thread wix, I hadn't had time to do it myself last night.

Quote: readers immediately get the meaning in his or her head

Sorry, but they don't. Nobody who hadn't studied Chinese (or any other simliar language could look at ? and think fish - it's only through repeated association of the symbol and the idea that the meaning comes into your head.

If readers immediately got the meaning in their head, we wouldn't need to learn Chinese - we would already know it.

Roddy jwarriner

Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 10 Location: Arizona Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:57 am   Post subject: Characters by sight Kind of an interesting paradox here. Sure written language came after spoken language but the pictographic or ideographic nature of Chinese characters says to me that the effort to develop the written language wasn't based entirely on the spoken word but also attempted to pictorially represent the thing, concept, idea, etc. So once you know what a character means it seems to me possible that at least some of its meaning is taken in visually rather than aurally. Even with my limited knowledge of Chinese, there are times when I remember what a character means but not how to say it. And the use in China of certain characters in art of various forms suggests that much of its meaning is indeed transferred visually. There's a big difference between having a painting on the wall with DAO and one with ?

cheers, john kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:00 am   Post subject: roddy wrote: Thanks for starting the thread wix, I hadn't had time to do it myself last night.

Quote: readers immediately get the meaning in his or her head

Sorry, but they don't. Nobody who hadn't studied Chinese (or any other simliar language could look at ? and think fish - it's only through repeated association of the symbol and the idea that the meaning comes into your head.

If readers immediately got the meaning in their head, we wouldn't need to learn Chinese - we would already know it.

Roddy

Uhm, you're kidding right? Although I didn't specify but I assumed people would know that I was talking about people who know the characters. Of course the modern Hanzi won't look like anything but scribbles to those who don't know Chinese... sudasana

Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Posts: 19 Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu sheng Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:21 am   Post subject: Written relics You can't say that characters have a natural association with the idea they represent: even the ideographic class of characters is opaque to anyone who hasn't learned their meaning. In both character and phonetic writing you have a sign which corresponds to an idea. With characters, you have a vast number of signs, the pronounciation of which is bascially arbitrary, and varies by dialaect and time period. With phonetic writing, you have a small set of signs that indicate sounds.

The Chinese writing system is ineffecient in that it requires a lot of investment in order to master written communication; in the past this helped keep the literati in power, by maintaining a monopoly on the creation and spread of texts. Regardless of its artistic or historical value, the character system has no benefits over a phonetic system. It's only the massive inertia of the character system that keeps it alive; Vietnam and Korea were successful in developing phonetic systems to write their languages, whereas in the past they used Chinese characters.

I was pretty excited about Chinese characters too until I read Asia's Orthographic Dilemma. If you strip away the exoticism that comes with a 'strange' method of writing, you may realize that, at best, hanzi solve many of the problems that they themselves cause. roddy Site Admin

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 798 Location: Beijing Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:10 pm   Post subject: Quote: one advantage characters have over a phonetic writing system is that with characters, readers immediately get the meaning in his or her head

This means readers of phonetic scripts don't immediately get the meaning in their head, which is simply not true - I can't believe reading ? is any more immediate than reading fish.

I'd also like to agree with what sudsana wrote - and thanks for saving me the bother of typing it all.

Roddy confucius

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 273 Location: China Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:21 pm   Post subject: Using the Chinese character for fish is a horrible example to make a point for phonetics. The key to learning new words in Chinese is understanding the importance of compound meanings. This allows you to guess at the meaning of new words by immediately analyzing the two characters it's comprised of. For example, if I just write "nankan" in pinyin phonetics then a Chinese guy won't have any clue what it means. Yet when he sees the characters for "nan" and "kan" then at least he knows the new word means "something that is difficult to look at" and concludes that those two characters together mean "ugly" roddy Site Admin

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 798 Location: Beijing Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:30 pm   Post subject: Yeah, I agree that once you've learnt the characters Chinese isn't so difficult - and like the ugly example, Chinese vocabulary can be beautifully logical.

It's learning the characters in the first place that's the problem - not just for us, but for generations of Chinese people.

Roddy roddy Site Admin

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 798 Location: Beijing Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:41 pm   Post subject: And. . .(forgot this)

I've been told that it's impossible to create an adequate phonetic system for Chinese, as there are so few phonemes you have too many homonyns.

Sounds like rubbish to me. A phonetic script is simply one that includes all the information given by the spoken language - if you have a spoken language that works, then you can have a phonetic system. You just need a consistent orthagraphy - whether you do this with tone marks above vowels, numbers after syllables, or whatever, it'll work.

Sure, you might have problems with words in isolation - context won't help you - but how often do you have words in isolation?

Roddy wix

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:05 pm   Post subject: Re: Written relics sudasana wrote: I was pretty excited about Chinese characters too until I read Asia's Orthographic Dilemma. If you strip away the exoticism that comes with a 'strange' method of writing, you may realize that, at best, hanzi solve many of the problems that they themselves cause.

There is a sample chapter of Asia's Orthographic Dilemma available online for those who are interested. I strongly suggest that everyone reads it in order to be better informed about this debate. It also dispels many common myths about Chinese characters and Chinese languages.

Appropriateness to East Asian Languages -- sample chapter

=
============

The first writing systems that evolved were ideographic or pictographic. These kind of writing systems probably were invented independently in two or three places, China being one of them. Subsequently the Sumerians invented the alphabet in about 3,000 BC(???). The idea of the alphabet then spread around the world. It was so successful that it was adopted almost everywhere. Only in East Asia did a character based writing system persist.

Even in East Asia there has been a trend towards alphabetic writing systems. Vietnam used to use Chinese characters, but abandoned them in favour of romanisation (although the French can probably take some of the credit for that). The Koreans invented their own alphabet (Hangul) and Chinese characters only have a very small place in modern Korea. The Japanese also invented their own alphabetic systems (Katakana and Hiragana) and also use Roman script (Romaji). They maintain the use of Chinese characters in a kind of half and half system. Only in China, Taiwan and Hong Kong have Chinese characters persisted in a pure form.

There are probably a few reasons why characters survived in China. Namely, the conservatism of the society, the low levels of literacy in the general population until recently, and the myth about the unification of Chinese "dialects". i.e. that although people throughout China spoke many languages they were united by a single written language.

It is also important to note that the vast majority of Chinese characters are phonemics (although phonetic shifts and variations in pronunciation mean they are not always reliable). They contain a radical indicating the sound and often a meaning radical. Very few characters express the meaning and even when they do it is usually quite abstract.

There is no reason why pinyin or some other alphabetical system should be more difficult to read than Chinese characters. In fact it should be easier. Even Chinese people sometimes forget how to write a character. With an alphabetical system the worst you can do is make a spelling mistake.

Basically I can see no good reason for the Chinese not to adopt some form of alphabetical writing system. This doesn't mean abolishing Chinese characters, but simply relegating them to a secondary role. confucius

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 273 Location: China Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:36 pm   Post subject: Know what a "blenny" is? Betcha don't. Looking it up in your alphabetic phonetic dictionary, eh? Yet if you saw the Chinese word for "blenny" you would at least know from the left radical that it's likely a type of fish! Confucius says: "If you see how it's writ, then you must acquit" roddy Site Admin

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 798 Location: Beijing Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:09 pm   Post subject: Quote: Sure, you might have problems with words in isolation - context won't help you - but how often do you have words in isolation?

Like I said, you might occassionally have problems with words in isolation - like when a madman comes up to you on the street and says 'hey, d'you know what a blenny is?'

Roddy kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:29 pm   Post subject: confucius wrote: The key to learning new words in Chinese is understanding the importance of compound meanings. This allows you to guess at the meaning of new words by immediately analyzing the two characters it's comprised of.

For example, if I just write "nankan" in pinyin phonetics then a Chinese guy won't have any clue what it means. Yet when he sees the characters for "nan" and "kan" then at least he knows the new word means "something that is difficult to look at" and concludes that those two characters together mean "ugly"

Actually this was the point I was trying to express. I had a long day, couldn't really concentrate well earlier. jwarriner

Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 10 Location: Arizona Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:33 pm   Post subject: roddy wrote:

Sure, you might have problems with words in isolation - context won't help you - but how often do you have words in isolation?

Roddy

I think we would also have to consider the effects of phonetization on the Chinese written word, literature. Passing down from the style of ??? (wen yan wen), modern literature still retains a bit of the flavor of ? ?. The written word is not entirely a reproduction of the spoken word and the use of single characters is not uncommon. In addition, Chinese is full of wonderful word play which depends at least in part on the hanzi representation of the words involved. john ChouDoufu

Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 87 Location: Zai Beijing.. gei wo lianxi ba! Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:36 pm   Post subject: Some people on this thread have mentioned giving Chinese characters a secondary role in the writing system. This would kill them, making them available only to Chinese Scholars.

I'd be very sad to see the day when Chinese students studied a romanization system to the neglect of Characters. A newspaper in pinyin? Chinese ancestors would roll in their graves.

I won't argue the fact that Chinese characters are inefficient to learn compared to a phonetic system. That's true. But what I strongly believe is that the most efficient way, the fastest way is not necessarily the best way to do something. I take up this argument for purely cultural reasons. Removing the cultural legacy (in this case Chinese characters which have grown and changed over millenia) of something essentially turns it into something completely different.

Let me take a different tack to explain that last point. I'm a first generation American citizen (ie. my parents were born in a foreign country and came to the US, where I was born). Like many parents, mine had to decide how much of my cultural heritage they would teach their children (in my case, there wasn't a second language as my parents came from an english speaking country). Some parents make the decision not to teach their children about their heritage and language at all. So then you have a child who is XXXX-American (chinese/japanese/ghanian/polish/whatever) by name only. What does it mean to be a young a Polish-American if you don't know anything about Poland, don't speak Polish, and don't know any Polish History? All it means is that your parents came from Poland. But for all intents and purposes, you're just American. Contrasting that, someone who has learned about their heritage is much richer in that they have generations of history to look back upon as well as their knowledge of American Culture. I see the Chinese language in much the same way, by taking out characters, you're removing the history and the cultural legacy that took so long to create.

Language is about so much more than efficiency. It's culture; it's history; it's communication. If efficiency and simplicity was truly what was important in a language, then everyone in the world would be speaking Esperanto--the easiset language in the world to learn. I think the governments that use Chinese characters should protect that use at all cost... sudasana

Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Posts: 19 Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu sheng Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:07 pm   Post subject: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo ChouDoufu wrote: Some people on this thread have mentioned giving Chinese characters a secondary role in the writing system. This would kill them, making them available only to Chinese Scholars.

I'd be very sad to see the day when Chinese students studied a romanization system to the neglect of Characters. A newspaper in pinyin? Chinese ancestors would roll in their graves. By that logic we should all be using Latin instead of English on this board, because of its long history and cultural significance. I don't think any Chinese ancestor would fault a modern person for trying to make things better for themselves or other Chinese-speaking/writing peoples.

I think the only arguments in favour of the character system are emotional in nature. That said, these emotions are powerful enough that characters aren't going anywhere for a while. I don't hate characters, I just hate the effect they seem to have on the people who are forced to use them. You've got to wonder if a more widely availbile written system of Chinese wouldn't bring with it social change.

But isn't that one reason why even the CCP didn't banish characters? There are hundreds of dialects in China, different enough to be considered separate languages, but they can all be written using the same set of characters. If you start writing phonectically, you've just removed a unifying factor. Not something which the CCP would relish. kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:18 pm   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo sudasana wrote: By that logic we should all be using Latin instead of English on this board, because of its long history and cultural significance. I don't think any Chinese ancestor would fault a modern person for trying to make things better for themselves or other Chinese-speaking/writing peoples.

It makes no sense to compare Latin and English with Hanzi and Pinyin (or some other kind of phoentic writing system). Latin and English are two different languages, though many English words derived from Latin. Also Hanzi and the whole Chinese writing system has received a great deal of "improvements" over the years. The three most significant "updates" were, in chronological order, the switch from Wenyen Wen to Baihua Wen, the invention of Zhuyin Fuhao (and later Hanyu Pinyin), and finally the simplication of Hanzi (Simplified Chinese). Note that Zhuyin Fuhao and Hanyu Pinyin were invented to work as aids to Hanzi and not to replace them. So in fact the modern Chinese has made things better for themselves. They have made improvements and updates to the Chinese writing system but not completely change it.

Quote: But isn't that one reason why even the CCP didn't banish characters? There are hundreds of dialects in China, different enough to be considered separate languages, but they can all be written using the same set of characters. If you start writing phonectically, you've just removed a unifying factor. Not something which the CCP would relish.

I don't believe *ANY* Chinese person (in their right mind) would like to see China disunified, whether they're from the mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, or the oversea Chinese community. wix

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:25 pm   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo sudasana wrote: There are hundreds of dialects in China, different enough to be considered separate languages, but they can all be written using the same set of characters. If you start writing phonectically, you've just removed a unifying factor. Not something which the CCP would relish.

sudasana, this is not correct. Written Chinese is based on the way Mandarin is spoken. To say a Cantonese person can read standard Chinese and it is the same as their language is wrong. The Cantonese person has had to learn to read standard Chinese. This is discussed in the chapter of Asia's Orthographic Dilemma that I linked to in an earlier post. If you are still in doubt just pick up a newspaper in Hong Kong that is written in Cantonese. The differences go far beyond simplified/traditional characters. Indeed there are many characters that are not even used in standard Chinese.

ChouDoufu, great post, but I still disagree with you. The Vietnamese made the switch from characters to romanisation and do you ever hear them complaining about their culture being lost. The Koreans invented their own alphabet which is a source of cultural pride. If you are really worried about Chinese culture being lost then you should be concerned by the increasing dominance of Mandarin/putonghua at the expense of regional languages and dialects.

While language is an important part of culture it is also something that, like culture, is continually evolving. Nobody is complaining that typewriters have been superseded by word processors or oil burning lamps replaced by electric lights. Also Chinese do not need to totally abandon characters. If some sort of alphabetic writing system was adopted I am sure that people would still continue to learn some characters and those who wished to go on to higher education would no doubt still become fully literate in characters.

kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:44 pm   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo wix wrote: The differences go far beyond simplified/traditional characters. Indeed there are many characters that are not even used in standard Chinese.

There are actually about 100+ characters that were "invented" just to "write" Cantonese. However, the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese (in writing) is still *MUCH* closer than the difference between Mandarin and other languages that use/used characters, Japanese for example. I've actually been to Shenzhen and saw a Hong Kong magazine that's "written" in Cantonese and I understood it much better than a Japanese magazine I read on a plane.

Quote: ChouDoufu, great post, but I still disagree with you. The Vietnamese made the switch from characters to romanisation and do you ever hear them complaining about their culture being lost.

Actually I have. I live in Houston, TX. We have one of the largest Vietnamese communities in the U.S. (second only to L.A. I believe). I have many Vietnamese friends, some of them even took Chinese at the University of Houston. Many of them took pride in that their culture is so close to the Chinese culture and that they once used Hanzi as well. Almost all of them either learned how to write their names in Hanzi or wish they could. However, I've never seen any of them as ethusiastic about their own language as they are with Chinese, not saying that they aren't proud of their culture in general (which they are). Also there's an Vietnamese organization based in New York who is trying to preserve and hopefully revive the Ngu Nam (sp?) writing system. The Ngu Nam writing system is pretty much Hanzi modified to fit the Vietnamese language.

Quote: The Koreans invented their own alphabet which is a source of cultural pride.

The Korean culture has become pretty much what you described the Chinese culture should become. While Hangul is used in everyday life, most scholars still learn Hanzi. Also, I heard from a couple Korean students I met in Beijing that they teach Hanzi, or what they call Hanja, in school as well. However, this is only happening because Hanzi is still in full use in Chinese-speaking nations (China, Taiwan, Singapore, oversea Chinese communities... etc.). If China dropped the usage of Hanzi, I seriously doubt that Korea would even bother with it. In the end, Hanzi would just be lost completely.

Quote: If you are really worried about Chinese culture being lost then you should be concerned by the increasing dominance of Mandarin/putonghua at the expense of regional languages and dialects.

Are you suggesting that the spread of Mandarin and having a unified standard language is a bad thing for China? I don't believe a large nation can be and remain powerful without a standard language. Usually foreigners in the U.S. are frowned upon when speaking their native language in public because Americans feel threatened. Don't get me wrong though, I am totally for preserving Chinese dialects but I believe everyone should be able to speak Mandarin (even as a second language). wix

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Australia Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:51 pm   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo kulong wrote: Are you suggesting that the spread of Mandarin and having a unified standard language is a bad thing for China? I don't believe a large nation can be and remain powerful without a standard language. Usually foreigners in the U.S. are frowned upon when speaking their native language in public because Americans feel threatened. Don't get me wrong though, I am totally for preserving Chinese dialects but I believe everyone should be able to speak Mandarin (even as a second language).

I agree there is a need for a common language in China, but problems arise when that language becomes too dominant and marginalises other languages or dialects.

ChouDoufu

Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 87 Location: Zai Beijing.. gei wo lianxi ba! Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:53 pm   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo wix wrote: ChouDoufu, great post, but I still disagree with you. The Vietnamese made the switch from characters to romanisation and do you ever hear them complaining about their culture being lost. The Koreans invented their own alphabet which is a source of cultural pride. If you are really worried about Chinese culture being lost then you should be concerned by the increasing dominance of Mandarin/putonghua at the expense of regional languages and dialects. The thing about Vietnam and Korea is that though they were once controlled by China, they maintained a seperate cultural identity. As a way of exploring this cultural identity, Korea developed their writing system. That's a natural progression for a culture to want a system that it created, not a system that was forced upon it.

I am very concerned by the loss of regional languages and dialects. Not just in China, but also around the world (many Native American Languages have fewer than fluent 60 speakers-- these languages unfortunately won't survive). I view diversity as something that makes everyone better off, so the loss of these languages is a loss for humanity. But I don't believe the disappearence of these dialects can be blamed only on the "dominance of Mandarin". Many languages are fading because the younger generation doesn't see the need to speak it. It's not useful; it's not cool; it won't get you a job. I feel both situations (trying to replace Chinese characters, and the disappearence of local dialects) are symptoms of the same problem, a desire in humans to fit in, to be the same, to not stick out. Rather than just accepting the fact that Chinese Characters are difficult but that it's a perfectly valid method, people (and I'm mostly reading stuff by and from non-native speakers) who don't like the system are trying to change it into something more like their own. [it's a ridiculous analogy, but: Some people try to change another person's behavior because it doesn't fit it, because it's different, rather than just accepting a person for who they are.] I'm not a fan of any movement to remove distinctness from cultures.

Quote: Also Chinese do not need to totally abandon characters. If some sort of alphabetic writing system was adopted I am sure that people would still continue to learn some characters and those who wished to go on to higher education would no doubt still become fully literate in characters.

And maybe not. I still believe that most people wouldn't learn the characters, so you'd end up with a small minority who did and Chinese Characters would be lost to the Chinese people. I base this belief off the fact that in America, a higher and higher percentage of "old works" are getting translated into English. Many classes read Shakespeare in english, not Shakespearean-english. Many more read Chaucer in english rather than middle english. Very few read Beowulf in it's original form. There is the belief that they are too hard and so aren't worth learning. But here is where I disagree again. Yes it's more difficult than standard english, but I feel that the look back into the past provides some intangible benefit. It links people with the past and enriches them whether they realize it or not. People are inevitably looking for the way to do the most with the least amount of effort, and if you remove characters from newspapers, and everyday life then you will kill them for the majority of Chinese people.

Again my two points: 1) Holding onto cultural links, cultural identity, and diversity are essential. and 2) Simplification does not necessarily mean better. kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:57 pm   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo wix wrote: I agree there is a need for a common language in China, but problems arise when that language becomes too dominant and marginalises other languages or dialects.

I don't believe the problem is that serious yet. I've been to many parts of China, mostly on tours but I have stayed for an extended period of time in Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen. When I was in Shanghai, the locals usually speak Shanghaihua with each other and only Mandarin to non-Shanghairen. Same with Shenzhen, Cantonese is still the dominant language/dialect though most people spoke Mandarin fluently as well. Not only is the Uyghur language spoken in Xinjiang but it's also written alongside with Hanzi on all public signs, whether government-owned or private. Same with Yunnan, all the ethnic minorities I saw still speak in their own native languages (and even taught us some).

If we have to worry about a single language being too dominant it should be English. Not only is it the dominant language in the U.S. (just like ChouDoufu said, many second-generation Americans don't even speak their own language) but it's also gaining dominance in the world.

jwarriner

Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 10 Location: Arizona Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:32 am   Post subject: Re: ai hanzi, ai Zhongguo wix wrote: If you are still in doubt just pick up a newspaper in Hong Kong that is written in Cantonese. The differences go far beyond simplified/traditional characters. Indeed there are many characters that are not even used in standard Chinese.

Oh yes, and what about newspapers. Is it not correct that "newspaper-hua" ;-) is sort of a foreshortened version of baihua, or a mixture of baihua and wenyan which is highly dependent on the use of hanzi for clarity? john sudasana

Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Posts: 19 Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu sheng Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:00 am   Post subject: Quote: It makes no sense to compare Latin and English with Hanzi and Pinyin (or some other kind of phoentic writing system). Latin and English are two different languages, though many English words derived from Latin.

My point was simply that it is possible for a culture to change the way it thinks about the relationship between the vulgar, spoken language and the written language of scholarship and history.

Quote: sudasana, this is not correct. Written Chinese is based on the way Mandarin is spoken. To say a Cantonese person can read standard Chinese and it is the same as their language is wrong. The Cantonese person has had to learn to read standard Chinese.

But both languages use the same set of characters to write. Regardless of grammar or vocabulary, Cantonese uses the same written signs as other dialects.

I don't think I have much else to add to this discussion, but I just wanted to clear up those two points. However you feel, characters are here and in use, and we've all got to live with them. As my 1st year Chinese teacher said; ?????????? Or something like that; it's been a while. wix

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Australia Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:53 am   Post subject: sudasana wrote: Quote: sudasana, this is not correct. Written Chinese is based on the way Mandarin is spoken. To say a Cantonese person can read standard Chinese and it is the same as their language is wrong. The Cantonese person has had to learn to read standard Chinese.

But both languages use the same set of characters to write. Regardless of grammar or vocabulary, Cantonese uses the same written signs as other dialects.

English, French, Indonesian and dozens of other languages also use the same "signs" for writing... but this doesn't mean the written languages are the same. Sure ? means big regardless of whether something is in Cantonese, Taiwanese or Mandarin, but many alternative characters are used in writing other languages plus the syntax is often completely different. However, maybe this is getting off topic.

jwarriner wrote: I think we would also have to consider the effects of phonetization on the Chinese written word, literature. Passing down from the style of ??? (wen yan wen), modern literature still retains a bit of the flavor of ? ?. The written word is not entirely a reproduction of the spoken word and the use of single characters is not uncommon. In addition, Chinese is full of wonderful word play which depends at least in part on the hanzi representation of the words involved. john

Classical Chinese is very different from modern standard Chinese. Additional modifications to the way Chinese is written would be needed if characters were abandoned in favour of a phonetic script, although these modifications would not be so great. The main change would be that when writing characters a single character can often be used to replace poly-syllabic word. Although any text that could be understood when read aloud could be phoneticised directly. wix

Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Australia Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:08 am   Post subject: This website is about the Japanese language, but it contains many references to Chinese and is very relevant to the topic being discussed.

Japanese in the Age of Technology kulong Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:56 am   Post subject: channamasala wrote: I can guarantee, kulong, that native speakers DO NOT see the character and know what it means automatically.

I believe you misunderstood what I meant. Of course, even native speakers need to acquier at least the basic understanding of the Chinese language. However, once a person has acquired a good amount of Hanzi, he or she would start noticing that they can guess the meaning of a word without having learned it, and by word I mean "ci", not "zi". Since most Chinese words (ci) are made up of zi, one can guess the meaning of the ci if he or she knows the meaning of the zi which makes up the said ci.

Last edited by kulong on Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:36 am; edited 2 times in total jwarriner

Joined: 27 May 2003 Posts: 10 Location: Arizona Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:17 am   Post subject: Re: Characters vs phonetic writing systems wix wrote: ChouDoufu wrote this another thread but I am quoting it here to start a new topic, because it is an interesting and important issue. Let the debate begin...

One of the arguments I've heard from some Americans is that the Chinese character system makes collation, cataloging, and retrieval of documents cumbersome at best. I think the advent of computer has taken care of that problem however. As near as I can tell, with computer encoding of characters, these archiving tasks are accomplished without significant problem. channamasala

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 93 Location: Not at home, which is the important part Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:17 pm   Post subject: OK, that makes more sense. Then again, you can do that in English too. The prefixes, suffixes, and affixes are more mishy-mashy but you can still make good, educated guesses as to what words mean, and usually be right. But hearing the Chinese compound words spoken should have the same effect as reading the zi strung together to make up a word. As a matter of fact, that's how I learned a lot of the words I know that were not in my textbook...by listening, hearing compound words made up of words I already know, and using basic logic.

It is a lot easier to do in Chinese, too. Chinese is much less messy than any IE language!

The radicals in Chinese writing help decipher the meaning of a zi, but they don't necessarily give a meaning...example: the character for "gasoline", if I remember correctly, and my reading skills are shite so please bear with me, is the water radical paired with the "qi" (essence, air, spirit) character, which makes sense when you know the meaning and can do some reverse "explain why this happened" hindsight logic, but not if you don't already know the meaning of it. kulong Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:42 am   Post subject: channamasala wrote: OK, that makes more sense. Then again, you can do that in English too. The prefixes, suffixes, and affixes are more mishy-mashy but you can still make good, educated guesses as to what words mean, and usually be right.

Many of these prefixes, suffixes, and affixes came from Latin, which is a whole different language. Also, many English vocabularies actually came from other languages as well. English is much like Japanese, where the language is deeply affected by another. Chinese, however, has *mostly* been developed on its own, therefore to truly understand Chinese, one doesn't need to learn another language. jjcox

Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 3

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:43 am   Post subject: I'm new to this board, just read it allo through for the first time - really interesting. I have two points, one based on a practical argument and the other a cultural one.

1) something that has not yet been mentioned on the board is the effect of the increasing use of computers versus pens and pencils when writing/typing chinese in everyday life.

One effect of this trend is the declining ability of the Chinese themselves to physically write the characters as they are so used to typing in pinyin using software such as NJStar. Any foreigner who has studied Mandarin knows that being able to read a hanzi and being able to write a hanzi are two very different things and personally I find typing Chinese with a computer (typing in pinyin which converts into hanzi) incredibly easy. The "written chinese is so difficult to learn" argument for moving to a purely phonetic system is somewhat mitigated by the fact that writing on a computer makes it so much easier. The development of such computer software has made learning and using Hanzi in everyday life much easier as you can get away with a less than perfect memory of all the characters.

2) I'm with Choudoufu on the cultural argument. Language is culture. Language is history. And you get so much more meaning from characters than phonetic alphabets. For example, the character for "tired" namely "lei" is made up of radicals symbolising silk and a field. In ancient times the men used to plough the fields and the women used to make silk. In doing so they got tired. So "lei" is soooo much more than just "tired". It is a window on the traditional chinese agrarian way of life. It hints at the dominance of silk production in the Ancient Chinese economy. Its not just a boring, efficient and purposeful "word". The same goes for "hao" comprising of the radicals for a woman and a child. For a chinese several thousand years ago, "good" was a woman who had got pregnant. I could go on and on...

So, I think the advent of computers makes chinese far more efficient and for us waiguorens far easier to write. In addition, I am of the opinion that Hanzi make the Chinese who they are, and contain meaning going far beyond their obvious beauty.

Cheers, Jon kulong Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:53 am   Post subject:

jjcox wrote: 1) something that has not yet been mentioned on the board is the effect of the increasing use of computers versus pens and pencils when writing/typing chinese in everyday life.

One effect of this trend is the declining ability of the Chinese themselves to physically write the characters as they are so used to typing in pinyin using software such as NJStar. Any foreigner who has studied Mandarin knows that being able to read a hanzi and being able to write a hanzi are two very different things and personally I find typing Chinese with a computer (typing in pinyin which converts into hanzi) incredibly easy. The "written chinese is so difficult to learn" argument for moving to a purely phonetic system is somewhat mitigated by the fact that writing on a computer makes it so much easier. The development of such computer software has made learning and using Hanzi in everyday life much easier as you can get away with a less than perfect memory of all the characters.

I picked up Hanyu Pinyin in a matter of days because I couldn't find a keyboard that has Zhuyin Fuhao marks. After typing Chinese with Hanyu Pinyin for over five years, I've started to feel that my "writing" skills has decreased, thoguh my reading skills stayed the same, if not improved. However, during the same time, I've also started typing English increasingly (thanks to those darn papers) and my handwriting in English has decreased as well. Not only does my handwriting in English has become more sloppy but also my spelling skills has decreased due to the reliance on spell check. Therefore I believe the negative effect of the increasing usage of typing doesn't apply to just Chinese but almost any language.

Quote: 2) I'm with Choudoufu on the cultural argument. Language is culture. Language is history. And you get so much more meaning from characters than phonetic alphabets. For example, the character for "tired" namely "lei" is made up of radicals symbolising silk and a field. In ancient times the men used to plough the fields and the women used to make silk. In doing so they got tired. So "lei" is soooo much more than just "tired". It is a window on the traditional chinese agrarian way of life. It hints at the dominance of silk production in the Ancient Chinese economy. Its not just a boring, efficient and purposeful "word". The same goes for "hao" comprising of the radicals for a woman and a child. For a chinese several thousand years ago, "good" was a woman who had got pregnant. I could go on and on...

So, I think the advent of computers makes chinese far more efficient and for us waiguorens far easier to write. In addition, I am of the opinion that Hanzi make the Chinese who they are, and contain meaning going far beyond their obvious beauty.

I completely agree.

roddy Site Admin

Joined: 24 May 2003 Posts: 798 Location: Beijing Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:44 am   Post subject:

I've moved the recent posts on Chinese Character Input Methods to a new topic in the Textbooks and Resources forum, shortly to be renamed the Textbooks, Resources and Computing forum. http://www.roddyflagg.34sp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=211

The posts on the difficulty or otherwise of learning Chinese are now in a new topic in this forum. http://www.roddyflagg.34sp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212

Kulong's query as to why some of us learn Hanzi if we hate them and responses to it have also been split http://www.roddyflagg.34sp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213

This thread is getting so long it would be hard for a newcomer to digest - it would be a good idea to keep posts on the topic of Characters vs Phonetic writing systems - otherwise, please start a new topic.

Thanks for everyones contributions to this topic - I've reviewed them all in the process of moving the above posts around, and I should probably go and read them in more detail when I have time. Keep them coming. . . Roddy

Last edited by roddy on Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:11 am; edited 2 times in total +++

[MUD-Dev] Phonetic and Ideographic languages (was Hangul) From : "Nathan F. Yospe"  To :  Subject : [MUD-Dev] Phonetic and Ideographic languages (was Hangul) Date : Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:08:34 -0000

Travis Casey  said: > On Thursday 25 July 2002 3:01, Damion Schubert wrote:

>> I don't know exactly what the language font for Korean is, but if >> you go into any Korean Lineage server, you'll see a lot of >> symbols above the heads of characters which aren't latin >> Characters by any stretch of the imagination.

> The major writing system in Korea is called Hangul. It is a > syllabary -- each symbol represents a particular syllable. This > means it has a lot more characters than English (which builds > syllables from multiple characters), but nowhere near as many as > traditional Chinese writing, in which a symbol corresponds to a > particular word.

> Hangul has exactly 140 characters. Each of these is a consonant + > vowel combination. There are also separate symbols for the > consonants (of which there are 14) and the vowels (of which there > are 10).

The unicode standard provides, for Hangul Jamo (the consonant and vowels combined to make the 10K plus Hangul) 96 noncombinable, of which only 51 are in use as modern letters, and what's called the Hangul Jamo combining alphabet, with 60 (0x1100 - 0x1159) initial consonants, 66 (0x1161 - 0x11A2) vowels, and 82 (0x11A8 - 0x11F9) final consonants...

The standard states that the compatibility section is the portion of Hangul Jamo that cannot be algorithmicly decomposed to normal, standardized Jamo.

Of the Hangul Jamo letters, 19 leading, 27 trailing, and 21 vowel characters are listed as being in common modern use. That's much more than 14 consonants and 10 vowels, and results in a total set of 11,172 complete Hangul in modern use. That's not counting the Hangul produced by the less standard 51 Jamo or the degenerate or unused products involving one of the remaining other 140 odd Jamo in the normal block. The Johab set (the 11K formed sylables) are unquestionably going to be typed using combined keystrokes. With a shift or control key, I'm sure all modern Jamo could easilly be typed with one stroke. It may even be possible to automate parts of each Hangul in sequence - initial jamo, vowel jamo, and final, if present, spacebar (maybe) to move on if not. I don't know how it's actually done, but that would seem a sensible approach...

What you describe sounds closer to Hiragana, which has (really) a total of fourteen consonants (five accessed only by accents added to similar sounding consonants, eg ka -> ga, ha -> ba -> pa), but only five vowels, with a few others formed by combining vowels to get long forms ("yaw" would be ia -> "eee" + "ah") and a few sets of combining sounds are neglected (y is only "yah", "yoo", "yoh"; w is only "wah, "woh"; tsu replaces "too", chi replaces "tee", ji replaces "zee", and there is a vowelless "n" that doesn't start a new word, but can end one), and the vowels exist as unadorned but seperate characters. There's also a rare case of a plain u "ooh" getting accented to become a vu "vooh", but I've only seen it one or two times, ever.

Mind, there's also a complete parallel alphabet, Katakana, with a slightly different, less fluid shape, used for foreign words, and a majority of Nihongo is written in Kanji, which is analogous to, and ultimately derived from, Han ideographs, the chinese writing. Clasical writing is in Kanzi, which retains archaic flourishes, a bit like gothic scripts in english.

Korean was, until sometime in the last century, also written with a Han derived ideographic form. Several of the nonstandard Jamo, ultimately, reflect that root. Purely Han derived characters are called Hanja and look just like Han.

Again, I don't know how that would be handled in Korean typing.

What gets particularly complex is the integration of dictation in a combined phonetic/ideographic typed environ. Worse still, when dealing with Han (pretty much the last pure ideographic language) there are actually multiple spoken languages mapped to one print, and the only phonetic standards format is something refered to as BoPoMoFo. It isn't used in writing, but does provide for a basic standard mapping from phonetic (keep in mind that this includes a set of tonal elements used for differentiation of meaning) to Han for a given language.

If a MMOG were to attempt to support, on the same server, a large set of languages, written and spoken, it would have to overcome a great deal of incompatibility between languages. Were the goal a more modest portability - single release of software, but servers for each language supported - it would simply be a case of having operating system support tie-ins and (probably) internal unicode, or at the very least multilingual encoding, support.

If it also had voice input support, or even worse, mixed mode and unified presentation (recipient chooses to see text or hear voice independant of what originator chose to use), something better in the way of phoneme encoding would have to be developed, and there would have to be a pretty advanced context-aware mapping resolver figuring out what each phoneme-set was *supposed* to mean... just as much, figuring out which _word_ a given ideographic symbol was meant to be, not to mention unmangling typos and horrific typing, u know, 2 b kewl?

I'd like to propose now, should anyone ever do this, that l33t be translated to a spoken form that resembles an especially retarded hillbilly just after a run-in with a large mallet. Or Elmer Fudd just after getting shot with his own rifle.

--

Nathan F. Yospe - Programmer, Scientist, Artist, JOAT with a SAK yospe#kanga.nu  Home: nathanfyospe#mac.com  Work: nyospe#a2i.com

https://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev

From : "David Kennerly"  To :  Subject : RE: Hangul (was Re: Réf. : RE: [MUD-Dev] Mass customization in MM***s) Date : Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:18:04 +0900

Korean is the easiest alphabet in the world to learn. It's phonetic. With a few exceptions, it's logical and sounds exactly like it's written. Each one of those blocks contain King Sejong created it around the 1500s in order to improve literacy rate, because Chinese language is too hard. In many people's opinion, he (or whoever he's taking credit from) did a good job. It has nuances too. It's vowels have yin or yang, each one is male or female. Some of the consonants are ideograms related to the position of the mouth to make the syllable.

The standard Korean keyboard map is intuitive. Korean has more like 40 common characters when practically used, so all can be typed on a western keyboard using only the letter keys and the shift key. The shift key combos are intuitive. If you wanted to try the keyboard map, you could try AsianSuite (http://www.unionway.com), or install Korean language system if your OS supports it. However, Korean language, beyond the alphabet, is a monster for a Westerner to learn (and vice versa), because it shares no roots. Western language has an alien philosophy, grammar, and alphabet from Korean.

Incidentally, I'm ending a four month business stay in Korea, and a four and a half year job with a Korean company, tomorrow. For the last four months, I've seen and typed a lot of those funny symbols.

David

From : Sean Kelly  To<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Subject : [MUD-Dev] =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Re=3A_Hangul_=28was_Re=3A_R=E9f=2E_=3A_RE=3A_?==?X-UNKNOWN?Q?=5BMUD-Dev=5D_Mass__customization__in_MM***s=29?= Date : Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:35:25 -0700 (PDT)

On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Travis Casey wrote: > On Thursday 25 July 2002 3:01, Damion Schubert wrote:

>> I don't know exactly what the language font for Korean is, but if >> you go into any Korean Lineage server, you'll see a lot of >> symbols above the heads of characters which aren't latin >> Characters by any stretch of the imagination. > The major writing system in Korea is called Hangul. It is a > syllabary -- each symbol represents a particular syllable. This > means it has a lot more characters than English (which builds > syllables from multiple characters), but nowhere near as many as > traditional Chinese writing, in which a symbol corresponds to a > particular word.

However Chinese is monosyllabic and the base part of each symbol represents the phonetic sound. This is the same, so far as I know, for all words represented by this sound. The rest of the word (some added bits in the upper right, I think) represents meaning or context modifiers to the symbol to differentiate each word from its generic phonetic base.

Japanese is odd because it is a polysyllabic language but they adapted the Chinese writing system for their use, so they have multiple symbols per word (even for the non purely phonetic writing form... I can never keep the names straight).

Interestingly enough, the Mayan language is much like Chinese. There's a book out about the decipherment of Mayan that's fascinating, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

Sean


text:
Vasily Azhayev

Vasily Nikolayevich Azhayev (Васи́лий Никола́евич Ажа́ев; born February 12 1915 – April 27, 1968) was a Soviet and Russian writer, best known as the author of the novel Daleko ot Moskvy ("Далеко от Москвы"; Far from Moscow) (1948, Stalin Prize of 1949), which served as the basis for several eponymous film, stage and TV adaptations, and an opera.

title: Vasily Azhayev


text:
17th Bangladesh National Film Awards

The 17th Bangladesh National Film Awards, presented by Ministry of Information, Bangladesh to felicitate the best of Bangladeshi Cinema released in the year 1992. The ceremony took place in Dhaka and awards were given by then President of Bangladesh. The National Film Awards are the only film awards given by the government itself. Every year, a national panel appointed by the government selects the winning entry, and the award ceremony is held in Dhaka. 1992 was the 17th ceremony of National Film Awards.

List of winners
This year awards were given in 23 categories.

Special Awards

 * Special Award - Abdul Jabbar Khan (posthumous)

title: 17th Bangladesh National Film Awards


text:
nedostatečný

Adjective

 * 1) insufficient

Usage notes

 * In Czech Republic school classification, the term nedostatečný corresponds to the mark 5, which is the worst in the 5-grade scale, thus meaning "failed".

title: nedostatečný


text:
Talk:Didier Agathe

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title: Talk:Didier Agathe


text:
Coldwater Peak

Coldwater Peak is a 5722 ft mountain summit located in Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument, in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest, in Skamania County of southwest Washington state. It is situated in the Cascade Range, 2 mi northwest of Spirit Lake, and 2 mi east of Coldwater Lake. Its nearest higher neighbor is Mount Margaret, 2.4 mi to the northeast, and Mount St. Helens rises 7 mi to the south. Precipitation runoff from Coldwater Peak drains into Coldwater Creek, a tributary of the North Fork Toutle River. The mountain takes its name from this creek, and was officially adopted in 1983 by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names. A trail provides access to the summit, the site of the former Coldwater Lookout from 1935 to 1968, and now is a site for research instruments.

Geology
The history of the formation of the Cascade Mountains dates back millions of years ago to the late Eocene Epoch. Geological events occurring many years ago created the diverse topography and drastic elevation changes over the Cascade Range leading to various climate differences. During the Pleistocene period dating back over two million years ago, glaciation advancing and retreating repeatedly scoured and shaped the landscape. With the North American Plate overriding the Pacific Plate, episodes of volcanic igneous activity occurred. The lateral blast from the 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens was pointed straight toward Coldwater Peak and stripped the vegetation from the slopes. Due to Mount Saint Helens' proximity to Coldwater Peak, volcanic ash is common in the area.

Climate
Coldwater Peak is located in the marine west coast climate zone of western North America. Most weather fronts originate in the Pacific Ocean, and travel northeast toward the Cascade Mountains. As fronts approach, they are forced upward by the peaks of the Cascade Range (Orographic lift), causing them to drop their moisture in the form of rain or snowfall onto the Cascades. As a result, the west side of the Cascades experiences high precipitation, especially during the winter months in the form of snowfall. During winter months, weather is usually cloudy, but due to high pressure systems over the Pacific Ocean that intensify during summer months, there is often little or no cloud cover during the summer. The months July through September offer the most favorable weather for viewing or climbing this peak.

title: Coldwater Peak


text:
Perl Programming/Exercise 1 Answers

A. Getting started, displaying text
print "Hello World!\n";
 * 1) !/usr/bin/perl

B. Displaying Numbers
$numerator = 4000; # This is the numerator $denomenator = 7; # This is the denominator $answer1 = $numerator / $denomenator; # Answer to part i $dec_places=3; printf ("%.2f",$answer1); print "$numerator divided by $denomenator is: $answer1\n"; $mod_num = $numerator * 10**$dec_places; # Modified Numerator $remainder = $mod_num % $denomenator; $num_div_denom = ($mod_num - $remainder); # $num_div_denom is divisible by denomenator $no_dec_places = $num_div_denom / $denomenator; # This number has no decimal places $answer2 = $no_dec_places / 10**$dec_places; # Answer to part ii print "$numerator divided by $denomenator to 3 decimal places is: $answer2\n"; $round = $remainder / $denomenator; if ($round > 0.5) { $no_dec_places += 1; } $answer3 = $no_dec_places / 10**$dec_places; # Answer to part iii print "$numerator divided by $denomenator to 3 decimal places, rounded is: $answer3\n"; print "The number with three leading zeros: "; print "0" x 3. "$answer2\n"; # Answer to part iv if ( $answer1 >= 0 ) { print "The number is positive (+): +$answer\n"; # Answer to part v, first part } 	else { print "The number is negative (-): $answer\n"; # Answer to part v, second part }
 * 1) !/usr/bin/perl
 * 1) Begin variable definitions
 * 1) End variable definitions
 * 1) Rounds up if the remainder / denominator is > 0.5

C. Functions
The function:

sub evaluate_delta_and_answer { my($x,$y,$z) = @_; if ($x != 0) { $delta = ($y**2 - (4 * $x * $z)); if ($delta < 0) { print "b^2-4ac is less than zero. Both roots undefined.\n\n"; print "Program Terminated. Goodbye, Dave.\n\n" }                elsif ($delta == 0) { $root = (0 - $y) /(2 * $x ); print "b^2-4ac = 0. There will be only one root: ". $root. "\n\n"; print "Goodbye, Dave.\n\n"; }                elsif ($delta > 0) { print "b^2-4ac > 0. There will be two roots.\n\n"; $root1 = ((0 - $y) - ($delta)**(0.5)) / (2 * $x); $root2 = ((0 - $y) + ($delta)**(0.5)) / (2 * $x); print "The first root, x1 = ". $root1. "\n\n"; print "The second root, x2 = ". $root2. "\n\n"; print "Goodbye, Dave.\n\n"; }        }         else { print "a = 0. This is not a quadratic function.\n"; print "Goodbye, Dave.\n"; } }

The rest of the program:

print "This program takes three numbers (a, b and c) as coefficients\n"; print "of a quadratic equation, calculates its roots, and displays them\n"; print "on the screen for you.\n\n"; print "Please enter the value of a and press : "; $a = ; print "\n"; print "Please enter the value of b and press : "; $b = ; print "\n"; print "Please enter the value of c and press : "; $c = ; print "\n"; evaluate_delta_and_answer($a,$b,$c);

title: Perl Programming/Exercise 1 Answers


text:
Cookbook:Easy Scrambled Eggs

| Eggs

This is a simple recipe for scrambled eggs.

Ingredients

 * Eggs
 * Butter, margarine, oil or cooking spray (enough to coat pan)
 * Salt to taste
 * Pepper to taste

Method 1

 * 1) Heat frying pan (non-stick or well-seasoned cast iron is preferable) to medium, and add enough butter, oil, or cooking spray to coat bottom.
 * 2) Crack desired number of eggs into a bowl.
 * 3) Add milk or water to eggs, if desired. Season with salt and pepper to taste (other herbs and spices may be used as well).
 * 4) Beat eggs gently with fork or whisk for 15–20 seconds. It is not necessary to make a completely uniform mixture.
 * 5) Add egg mixture to heated, greased pan.
 * 6) With a spatula or spoon (avoid metal tools if using teflon pan), continuously and gently scrape cooked egg from pan. The length of time and the frequency with which you scrape will determine the consistency of the eggs and is a matter of personal preference. The time will vary from 30 seconds to 3 or more minutes depending on number and type of eggs, size and heat of pan, and personal preference.

Method 2 – Microwave

 * 1) Grease bowl before cracking one to two eggs into bowl. Mix gently.
 * 2) Microwave on high for 40 seconds to 2 minutes. Actual cooking time will vary. A rule of thumb is to watch eggs for entire time and stop microwave when entire mixture has risen somewhat. If it explodes, you waited too long. Egg(s) will come out in shape of the bowl; depending on the size of the bowl, this method is very useful for making an appropriate size egg patty for a sandwich.

Method 3

 * 1) Heat a non-stick frying pan with the bottom covered in butter, margarine, oil or cooking spray over medium heat.
 * 2) Crack eggs directly into pan.
 * 3) Immediately begin mixing while lightly sprinkling with salt for 5 seconds.
 * 4) Continue mixing until eggs are thoroughly scrambled and mixed.
 * 5) Turn off heat, and wait 1 minute for eggs to cool.

Notes, tips, and variations

 * Southwestern Scramble and the various Omelet Recipes are variations of scrambled eggs.
 * The additional ingredient possibilities are virtually limitless. It is common to add a small amount of cream, milk or water (about ½ teaspoon per egg) to the egg mixture before cooking (will make eggs fluffier). Cheese is also popular, and should be added near the end of cooking. Other ingredients to try include: ham, mushrooms, onions, peppers, sausage, tomatoes, olives, bacon, shaved truffles, smoked turkey, spinach, broccoli, tarragon, chives, parsley and asparagus. Dijon mustard is also good mixed into the egg mixture prior to cooking.

title: Cookbook:Easy Scrambled Eggs


text:
Confederation of Trade Unions of the Republika Srpska

The Confederation of Trade Unions of the Republika Srpska (SSRS) is a trade union centre in Republika Srpska, in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was founded in August 1992 and claims a membership of 190,000.


text:
Takuji Nakamura

Takuji Nakamura (1 April 1897 – 31 January 1988) was a Japanese painter. His work was part of the painting event in the art competition at the 1936 Summer Olympics.

title: Takuji Nakamura


text:
Japanese I/Vocabulary

Basic Japanese Vocabulary

 * Intro
 * Nouns 1
 * Verbs 1
 * Adjectives 1
 * Numbers 1
 * Time
 * Case Markers
 * Postpositions
 * Question Words

title: Japanese I/Vocabulary


text:
Marco Battilana

Marco Battilana (born 30 May 1976 in St. Gallen, Switzerland) is a Swiss curler.

He is a and a two-time Swiss men's champion (2005, 2008).

He played on the 2006 Winter Olympics where Swiss men's team finished on fifth place.

title: Marco Battilana


text:
Mirabad, Rivand

Mirabad (, also Romanized as Mīrābād; also known as Mīrābād-e Khvājeh Ja‘far) is a village in Rivand Rural District, in the Central District of Nishapur County, Razavi Khorasan Province, Iran. At the 2006 census, its population was 67, in 21 families.

title: Mirabad, Rivand


text:
Portal:Spanish/Division News/News Archives

The following is an archives for the Spanish Language Division.

March 14, 2007 November 20, 2006
 * The Spanish: An Introduction subject is presently seeking students.
 * A template is developed for all Spanish-related projects.
 * The Spanish I class is presently seeking students.
 * The Spanish II class is presently seeking students.

November 19, 2006
 * The Spanish Language Division was founded and formatted.
 * The Spanish I and Spanish II classes were founded.
 * The Spanish I class is presently seeking students.
 * The Spanish II class is presently seeking students.
 * A userbox for the Spanish Language Division was developed.
 * Heltec has developed a Spanish barnstar. This is further discussed on the discussion page.


text:
Ceramics

This page is full of ideas, artists, and media that interest today's youth and be of use to someone teaching themselves about ceramics or a teacher looking for some new ideas. So browse, learn, borrow ideas, and always let us know about your experience with the materials we provide!

Theoretical ceramics
Def. any nonmetallic solid that remains hard when heated is called a ceramic.

The term ceramics refers to clay that has been fired to a temperature causing irreversible changes to the clay body that generally make the material more durable and less porous. Ceramics is thought to be one of the first technologies in human development, and persists to this day.

Ceramic materials have been in use as utilitarian objects from the start, and that legacy continues. The inherent insulating properties in ceramic material have led to its use in everything from the space shuttles to cell phones.

Ceramic Process
The typical life cycle of a ceramic object consists of shaping clay into a form (called the greenware stage), allowing it to dry (called the bone dry stage), and firing it up to a temperature appropriate to the clay body being used (it is then called bisqueware). A second firing may take place after bisque firing to fix a glaze onto the piece, although there are some techniques that do not require this firing or combine both the bisque and glaze firings into a single firing.

Lesson Plan Ideas

 * /Hard Slab Construction/
 * /Self-Portrait Relief Sculpture/
 * /Animals/

Step-by-Step Processes

 * /Creating a Hard Slab/
 * /Creating A Relief Sculpture/

Cool Practicing Artists

 * /Mosaic Artist/

Ceramics is part of the Division of Craft Arts in the Division of Fine Arts

title: Ceramics


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KissAnime

The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 05:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

KissAnime

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

None of the references are significant coverage to a reliable source. Nothing notable about a pirate site, there plenty more like it. One goes down, others go up, just as many have done before it.  D r e a m Focus  02:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions.  Megan Barris   (Lets talk📧)  02:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions.  Megan Barris   (Lets talk📧)  02:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Keep. All the sources are in-depth and I think all are reliable. TorrentFreak cited in the article is a reliable source and it has covered that site several times. Another reliable outlet covering this is AnimeNewsNetwork: . Other coverage is from more niche outlets (as in, platforms not having their own articles on Wikipedia) but there are new stories appearing all the time, for example, , since the closure is recent news), but even if they are niche they are not blogs, and the coverage is clearly independent and relatively in-depth. The current article cites only English language sources, but the site's closure has been covered in other languages as well in a similar fashion, ex Polish, Italian, German, Spanish. Here's a passing mention of the site in a book (yes, passing, I am not saying it adds much, but still): . I am not sure when the bot will add that info to the article, but Alexa suggests the site was almost in Top 500 most popular websites in the world (530 from what I see right now?), and this also a useful indicator. Whether the site was notable before it's closure, I am unsure, but the coverage from the last few days surely pushes it into the notable zone. PS. I'll ping User:Goroth who just created de:KissAnime which seems even longer and better referenced than the article we have here (which, disclaimer, I wrote). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here  03:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * All I'm seeing is just brief mentions that its shut down. Just routine news coverage for one event.   D r e a m Focus  03:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The mentions are not brief - most go for dozens of paragraphs, and cover various related topics, such as reasons for the shutdown, aftermath for related sites, fan reactions, as well as history of the site. It clearly was a major website (Top 500 most visited in the world for several years) and a cultural phenomena (it had/has its own subreddit: ). And while it is more difficult (at least, for me) to find older news coverage, here's a piece about the site from 2017: . This site clearly passes WP:Notability (websites), WP:WEBCRIT section: it "has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself." --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here  03:54, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not really significant coverage, it just covering the lawsuit filed against them in 2017. There is nothing about this website different than all the others like it. Its was "in the top 250 most visited websites in the United States".  How many similar sites were also in there?  They don't write anything on their site, they don't do anything at all but host illegal copies of anime.  They are not significant in any possible way.  People will now just go to one of the identical sites that have the exact same stolen content.   D r e a m Focus  04:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We clearly differ on what means 'siginficant coverage' and 'notable'. The story of the site's closure is discussed in dozen+ independent newspapers, and another cited news piece discusses an event from 2017 (so it is more than just NOTNEWS, enduring coverage of 2+ events has been shown) and you think it is not enough, and then you just voted keep at an article with an unreferenced list... (Articles for deletion/List of Japanese board games) simply because some of the entries are blue-linked. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Claiming several times over than something isn't "significant coverage" doesn't make it true, those articles don't seem like "short mentions" to me. Your statements in this AFD that there is "nothing notable about a pirate site" and "that there are plenty more like it" makes me feel like you might have some bias on this, pretty much anything can be notable, there are tons of news websites out there that only operate for a short time (KissAnime was around for about a decade), that doesn't make the notable news websites less notable. This pirate website has gotten tons of coverage, and that's undeniable in my opinion.★Trekker (talk) 20:12, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * They were "around for about a decade" and the only coverage they get is when they get shut down? Or a brief mention of their name when they were sued years ago by someone trying to shut them down.  And there is nothing at all about them other than they hosted illegal content, and that's it.  Not much to write an article about.   D r e a m Focus  21:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That is pure POV as far as I see it, not every article needs to be huge, and not being large or not having a broad subject is no reason for deletion when there are tons of sources that bring the subject above GNG. Your arguments seem a lot like IDONTLIKEIT. What else would a pirate website be known for if not getting in trouble with the laws they're breaking?★Trekker (talk) 22:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't really know what the criteria of notability are in en:WP regarding websites. I just translated that one into German and looked out for some German-languaged sources: So, I found an article which tried to answer the question whether watching anime on KissAnime is illegal or not. Since April of 2017 the EUGH stated that visiting the site and streaming anime is illegal because of copyright infringement. Visitor who used the service where often send on malicious websites. There where mobile apps for android and iOS devices. And there are a bunch of mirror sites which seem to be working. --Goroth (talk) 13:16, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The English criteria are here Notability (websites), but I think this is related to the basic WP:GNG. Since the shutdown, the site has been written about by a bunch of outlets, and this makes it notable. Can you tell us what are the German criteria, why do you think the de wiki article meets them, and whether any coverage in the German sources strikes you as in-depth and reliable? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:20, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Keep There are tons of sources which cover this website in depth, even beyond the sources already presented above. Here are some https://www.cbr.com/kissanime-is-dead-and-it-deserved-to-die/, https://sea.mashable.com/culture/11971/kissanime-is-dead-and-everyone-is-mourning-its-death-with-memes, https://www.techtimes.com/articles/251827/20200815/breaking-kissanime-and-kissmanga-closed-permanently-heres-why-japan-shuts-down-the-sites.htm .★Trekker (talk) 20:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to... somewhere under Anime but I'm not sure. I'm reviewing the sources and as Dream Focus is saying, until this shutdown, they are all trivial, though outside the body of RSes, "everyone" knew it as an illicit site to get anime. I've searched GNews as well as G Scholar and there are minor hits that do not help notability there, but they do tell me that we should have a section either at Anime or a sub-article on both the legal (eg Crunchyroll) and illegal distribution of anime around the world, and here is where basically a brief summary of KissAnime and the lawsuit and closure can be contained without losing the information. "Globalization" right now is rather light given the number of hits I get when I google-scholar "globalization of anime" and using the free Wikipedia Library Card to see what JStor has , there's a lot more possible hits (but nothing for KissAnime). But basicly, expand something about the globalization of anime more than what Anime covers, and you clearly have a place to talk about sites like KissAnime and their fates, which this can merge into. --M asem  (t) 03:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As you say, until the shutdown, the sources were weak. But now we have plenty, so what you are saying would make sense before, but why do you think the current sources are still insufficient? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:17, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm looking at all the sources provided and they are saying all the same effective thing: the site provided illegal anime downloads, it was ordered shutdown, there were a lot of reactions too it, mostly of a "Good riddance" sort. Combined, not significant coverage about the site (who founded it, why they opted to offer material this why or past legal issues, analysis of the legality of what they were doing, etc.) and while you can point to all these articles talking about its closure, they're all saying the same thing so that's not creating new coverage by volume of sources, just that if we are going to talk illegal distribution of anime, KissAnime should be included in such a discussion. --M asem  (t) 05:52, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Since when are there specific info criteria to GNG? The site has coverage, that's all that's needed, unknown creators aren't a problem as far as I see it.★Trekker (talk) 06:34, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Not all sites talk about the same aspects. Good example is that some are discussing the criticism and others are talking about the praise (of sorts) the site got . --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:23, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * User commentary and things like twitter posts, memes, etc. are things broadly we generally don't document in depth (users aren't experts like critics) though here obviously noting that the site's closure drew commentary can be mentioned briefly. We want significant coverage per the GNG (not just coverage), because particularly if the site is now closed, there likely will be no more coverage from sources, and if sourcing is all that is there, this is all we can write about this and this is not an appropriate article for WP; it is appropriate for merging into the larger topic of globalization of anime and distribution and most of what is already said in our article can be kept, it just doesn't need a standalone. --M asem (t) 13:22, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Comment. Just saying that each day there is still more coverage. For example, here's the second ANN article on this: Southeast Asia, India Fans Disproportionately Affected by Pirate Site KissAnime Closure. I think it is a good example of follow-up coverage as it seems ANN did an entire survey on this and this focuses on regional differences in what fans think about this. And here's a new (if on the shorter side) article from Gamereactor: --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here  06:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment. The problem is that all of the citations are strictly related to the website's closure, and there is no coverage for its notability beforehand. Does that make the website significant enough to earn an article? Other websites like the Pirate Bay gained larger notoriety and coverage. KissAnime has only notable importance amongst anime communities, so unless it opens a larger discussion about online piracy, it may not have much need of an article. Evilgidgit (talk) 00:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There was one article about it in 2017 so there it is more than just one-event coverage. Not that I am disputing that 99% of the coverage is recent. The site likely wasn't notable in 2017, but I think it is notable now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak keep: If I am not mistaken the article creator is somewhat known (well at least to me) for PROD'ing and AfD'ing. Without knowning was Anime or Manga is, and the article could probably do with wikilinking them at least, many might be clueless as to the focus of the like.  If I'm not mistaken, Global Alexa rank is 4 million. (I think thats 90 day average and shouldn't have been affected too much by a recent closure) whereas aimeexx.de is about 158,000.  The Categories show we hare having articles for similar Aimee sites.  The fact that its shut down or illegal is no reason to delete, its all part of history and its of interest to know a lifecycle.  The "Weak" is because I'm a little concerned about the influence due to the current low Alexa rank and I dont have history.Djm-leighpark (talk) 09:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: The site has received WP:SIGCOV. With reliable sources indicated above, the article easily passes WP:NWEB. ASTIG😎  (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 16:00, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


text:
Zubanchi

Zubanchi (Зубанчи) is a rural locality (a selo) in Dakhadayevsky District, Republic of Dagestan, Russia. The population was 1,638 as of 2010. There are 7 streets.

Nationalities
Dargins live there.

Geography
Zubanchi is located 11 km southeast of Urkarakh (the district's administrative centre) by road. Zilbachi and Trisanchi are the nearest rural localities.

title: Zubanchi


text:
populista

Noun

 * 1) populist

Etymology
From. With the suffix.

Adjective

 * 1) populist of or pertaining to populism

Noun

 * 1)  populist a person who advocates populism, a movement against ruling elites who are presumed not to act in the interests of the ordinary citizen

Adjective

 * 1) populist

Noun

 * 1) populist

Noun

 * 1) populist

Adjective

 * 1) populist

Noun

 * 1) populist

title: populista


text:
Talk:Dick Harter

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 08:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Dick Harter


text:
diferencial

Adjective

 * 1) differential

Adjective

 * 1) differential

Adjective

 * 1) differential relating to, having or being a difference
 * 2)  differential relating to differentiation or differential calculus

Noun

 * 1)  differential infinitesimal change

Noun

 * 1) an aspect that makes something or someone better than its competitors
 * 2) differential gear

Adjective

 * 1) differential
 * 2)  differential

Noun

 * 1) differential
 * 2)  differential, gap

Noun

 * 1)  differential

title: diferencial


text:
Flammenwerfer

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  flamethrower weapon
 * 2)  blowlamp; flame gun similar device used for heating, burning out weeds, etc.

title: Flammenwerfer


text:
User:Y-S.Ko/Excerpts and comments/Selected Reference

Philosophy (general)

 * Thomas Nagel, What Does It All Mean?: A Very Short Introduction to Philosophy (1987)

Ethics & Political philosophy

 * Amartya Sen, “Values and justice”, Journal of Economic Methodology, Vol. 19, No. 2, June 2012, 101–108

Biology (general)

 * Sylvia S. Mader, Biology (10th ed., 2010)

Economics (general)

 * Henry Hazlitt, Economics in One Lesson (1946)
 * N. Gregory Mankiw, Principles of Economics (6th ed., 2012)
 * Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics, 4th ed. (2010)

History of Economic Thought. Methodology. and Heterodox Approaches

 * Alan Ebenstein, Hayek's Journey: The Mind of Friedrich Hayek (2003)
 * Alessandro Roncaglia, Piero Sraffa: His life, thought and cultural heritage (2000)

Political theory. The state. Theories of the state.

 * James M. Buchanan, "Public Choice: The Origins and Development of a Research Program", Center for Study of Public Choice at George Mason University (2003)
 * Friedrich Hayek, The Fatal Conceit (1988)
 * Dennis C. Mueller, "James Buchanan, Gordon Tullock, and The Calculus", Public Choice (2012)


text:
Sosuga pararubulavirus

Sosuga pararubulavirus is a species of Paramyxovirus which is transmissible to humans. The Egyptian fruit bat is thought to be a natural reservoir species for the virus.

History
In August 2012, following a six-week field trip to South Sudan and Uganda to collect bats and rodents, an American wildlife biologist became ill with symptoms including fever, malaise, headache, pain, stiffness in the neck, and a sore throat. Upon her return to the US, she was admitted to hospital, where she soon developed a maculopapular rash and oropharyngeal ulceration. Several suspect infections, including Ebola and Marburg, were ruled out through standard diagnostic testing. Genetic sequencing identified a novel virus. To determine the source, tissue samples collected during the three-week period prior to the illness were tested for this new Sosuga virus, and several Egyptian fruit bats were found to be positive. Analysis of historical samples of these bats from sites in Uganda found additional positive individuals, suggesting that this species may be a natural reservoir for Sosuga.

Treatment
Research has identified several compounds which inhibit replication of the Sosuga virus.

title: Sosuga pararubulavirus


text:
The Voynich Manuscript/F67v2

One idea concerning the collections of faces in the corners is they may represent planetary conjunctions. Astronomical research has revealed that such configurations do indeed occur. While providing specific dates, they do not help date the manuscript, as they occurred in both the 15th and 16th Centuries.

An interpretation of the folio is that the conjunctions were observed from the central point while the Sun or Moon was setting (or rising) over the trees.

Here are some of the alignment dates:

NW Mercury, Venus, Jupiter (Virgo) 29 August 1554 NE Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn  (Taurus/Aries) 17 April 1588 SE Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter (Leo/Cancer) 10 July 1577 SW ?

Red Ink
Jorge Stolfi discusses the red ink on this page at http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~stolfi/voynich/99-12-15-f67-reds/. I have a couple of comments on this document.

First he mentions "The shadow is painted red in seven of the moons, and light yellow in the other five." Looking at the more recently available SIDs provided by the Beinecke (2004) I'm of the opinion that this yellow is a thinner "wash" of the same color used in the non-red text. In fact it is difficult to distinguish the color from some of the fainter letters.

As far as the red ink goes, my non-expert opinion based on the high quality scans now available are that they are all the same ink painted at the same time.

However, I'm not so sure that the red ink was necessarily applied at the same time as the rest of the text.

Firstly there has been some discussion about the sloppiness of some of the painting. In the "moons" on this page neither the red nor the "yellow" fillins are very neat.

In the case of the lighter color overpainting I believe that the overpainting was applied after the outline had dried. This theory is based on the appearance of where the overpainting overlaps the outline and produces and "additive" darkening effect. However this could be no more than minutes after the outline was drawn so perhaps doesn't say much.

I considered the possibility that the red text was an overpainting of earlier brown "original" text. I can't find much evidence for this theory though:

 * At the upper right there seems to be a brown dot between two of the words. Dirt?

 * At the upper left there seems to be a brown dot above one of the words. I'm inclined to think this brown does not quite match the primary text color though.  In fact looking back at the first dot I'm inclined to think that it matches the color of this dot and not the primary text color either.

 * Against this theory is the fact that in some places the red text is rather thin. Perhaps the brush was nearly dry.  In those cases I can see no evidence of an "additive" darkening from an underlying brown text, faint or not.

Another random note: What thought has been given to the pattern in the outer band? At first glance it seems to be decorative, but it is fairly complex and not entirely repetitive. It should be noted that this band seems to have the same "yellow" wash in a couple of places as the lighter overpainted moons. This color also appears in the center figure.

KenCausey 18:39, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

title: The Voynich Manuscript/F67v2


text:
Xelhua

Xelhua is one of the seven giants in Aztec mythology who escaped the flood by ascending the mountain of Tlaloc in the terrestrial paradise and afterwards built the Great Pyramid of Cholula. One of the six giants sons of Mixcoatl, the personification of the Milky Way.

title: Xelhua


text:
Elisabeth of Brandenburg, Landgravine of Thuringia

Elisabeth of Brandenburg (c. 1206 – 1231) a member of the House of Ascania. She was a Margravine of Brandenburg by birth and by marriage Landgravine of Thuringia.

She was the daughter of Margrave Albert II of Brandenburg and his wife Matilda of Groitzsch, the daughter of Landgrave Conrad II of Lusatia from the House of Wettin.

In 1228 she married Landgrave Henry Raspe of Thuringia, the later anti-king of Germany. The marriage remained childless.

Elisabeth died in 1231, at the age of 25, after three years of marriage. After her death, Henry married Gertrude of Babenberg and after Gertrude's death to Beatrice of Brabant. All three of his marriages were childless and after his death, the Emperor enfeoffed Thuringia to Henry III, the son of Henry Raspe's sister Jutta.