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Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 65

Request for the phonetic transcription of the family name
Dear colleaques, allow me to inform you about the request I've posted recently at the Talk page of the relevant article. I kindly ask anybody for whom American English is the first language to consult about the correct pronunciation of J. B. Straubel's name in the U. S. A. - at least, to write the answer on the talk page of the article. Thanks in advance. Cherurbino (talk) 14:54, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

(UPD) my POV is that the orthoepic standard for „Straubel” is the same, as for Levi Strauss - : „s”, not „sh”, and „au”, not „o” - am I right? Cherurbino (talk) 02:09, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Please, tell me the criteria for the significance of one existing article
Does anyone know the criteria of the significance of the article about Yegor Zhukov? In Russian Wikipedia, the article about this person is constantly removed, and in the discussion for the preservation of the article I haven't arguments. Maybe I can take advantage of the criteria from the article with a foreign speech Wikipedia? -Dmitry Pechenkov (talk) 13:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)-

 * I don't know, . If you think that he's not noteworthy, you can propose deletion. Here is the procedure. But please familiarize yourself with deletion criteria beforehand; in particular, NB "an article about him has been repeatedly deleted on Russian-language Wikipedia" is not a valid argument for deletion here (just as "an article about him has been repeatedly judged worth keeping on Russian-language Wikipedia" would not be a valid argument for retention here). -- Hoary (talk) 13:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

 * On the contrary. I want to understand the significance of this article in the English Wikipedia, in order to use it in the Russian Wikipedia and restore the article) --Dmitry Pechenkov (talk) 17:03, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

 * He is considered notable on English Wikipedia because he is covered in at least 4 highly reliable sources that are cited in the article: NPR, The New York Times, The New Yorker magazine, and the BBC. There are also 4 Russian language sources that might also be reliable, but you might be a better judge of those. Station1 (talk) 18:41, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The problem with determining if he meets WP:N on the English-language Wikipedia is that this policy is highly unlikely to be identical to the equivalent policies on the Russian-language Wikipedia. Each Wikipedia is its own project with its own rules and standards, and what's acceptable on one of them may be lacking on another. —A little blue Bori  v^_^v  Hasteur Hasteur Ha-- oh.... 18:45, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Virtual Great American Wiknic CentralNotice for US editors
I have put in a request for a geo-targeted CentralNotice for the Virtual Great American Wiknic on Sunday August 16. See the request on meta at CentralNotice/Request/Virtual Great American Wiknic.--Pharos (talk) 00:14, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Can't find
Where can I find this or this templates? I have been templated with both, but can't find them anywhere for me to use. I am pretty sure they were not created fresh for my talk page. Aditya (talk • contribs) 04:23, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As the HTML in the wikitext says, both are derived from {{subst:Ds/alert|topic code}}. If you are considering placing them on another editor's talk page, please read the Usage section of that template's documentation first. Certes (talk) 09:49, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Non free images help page
There doesn't seem to be a venue for novice users seeking assistance in writing rationales for non-free images. Do we have such a page? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:19, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The best I think we have is at Wikipedia Signpost/2008-09-22/Dispatches which is linked at WP:NFC as a See Also, but this likely assumes one is using a template and this is for meeting the NFCC#8 part (all other 9 points addressed.) --M asem (t) 21:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

User Deb has deleted the page "Gaza Sky Geeks"
Deb has deleted a page called Gaza Sky Geeks (GSG) that I and other editors have worked on. The page is a few years old, was blanked/vandalized by someone and then deleted. Then it was created again by an ip user and then I asked on the Village Pump to have the draft restored because I knew that it was in a better condition. Given what Deb has written on his talk page (User_talk:Deb), I don't think discussing the matter with him will lead anywhere. So I ask if an uninvolved moderator can restore the page. If Deb or anyone else wants to have the page deleted, he should nominate it for "Articles for Deletion" so that it can be discussed. GSG has received lots of news coverage and clearly fulfills the WP:N critera. ImTheIP (talk) 19:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * this is the wrong venue for much discussion on this, but lets see if we can settle it quickly. That page was nominated for speedy deletion by  and the deletion was carried out by  - obviously this is a contested speedy nomination now - so I suggest restoring the page and letting SUSTAMI list at AfD to move forward. Deb, agree? —  xaosflux  Talk 20:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If this is not agreed to, we can move this to a more approriate venue for admin action review/page deletion review/etc. — xaosflux  Talk 20:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't like restoring material that has been nominated for deletion as G11. I looked back through old versions and it seemed to me they were just as bad in terms of promotional language. However, I'll put the first few versions (dating from 2018) back into draft for User:ImTheIP to work on. Not much point trying to get the other named user to fix it - I think there may be a WP:COMPETENCE issue there. Deb (talk) 08:03, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The last version of the article was from 2020 so that is the version that should be restored. Moreover, I think the article should go through the AfD process if people want it gone so that the community can decide if the topic ever will get an article. Because what we had was pretty much all information about GSG there is.ImTheIP (talk) 12:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * if this is stalled out, please move this discussion to WP:AN for review by an uninvovled admin. — xaosflux  Talk 13:19, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Was that the page I should have posted on in the first place? I have been here for years but all these meta pages still confuse me! ImTheIP (talk) 13:33, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * there are a few options but that one is certainly better than VP:M. — xaosflux  Talk 13:39, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Home page
I wish you would go back to the old home page format that had the featured article right below the search box. The info placed there now is just clutter we have to scroll past to get to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 13:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Could you be more specific about which content you consider to be clutter? I see that you are currently using a mobile device, as do the majority of our readers. On a desktop (Firefox on Linux) the things that I see between the search box and today's featured article (whether I use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page or https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) are the slogan "Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. 6,140,016 articles in English" and nine links to portals. Are they what you feel shouldn't be there? Phil Bridger (talk) 18:53, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Before TemplateStyles were added to the main page (a few months ago), the header bar (welcome and portals) did not display. (Nor did much of our main page in fact.) It appears this unregistered reader does not appreciate those as being wasteful of space (i.e. they push the FA (partially) below the fold at mobile resolutions). --Izno (talk) 01:20, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Removing rename templates on files for which there is no consensus to rename
There are 138 files in Category:Wikipedia files requiring renaming that were added by. These are mostly double extensions like File:A-Square (Of Course).JPEG.jpg and some odd things like File:AARP logo SVG.svg.

It's unclear if WP:FNC would cover these. On Commons, there is #6 which covers "Non-controversial maintenance and bug fixes, including fixing double extensions, invalid or incorrect extensions, character handling problems, and other similar technical issues" but on WP we don't have this.

For some more info, see Wikipedia talk:File names.

The problem is that finding new requests in the category has been complicated by all these requests that can't be fulfilled right now. I'm keeping up with new requests so far, but I doubt anyone else will, and I don't like the extra work.

I have saved all the move links to User:Alexis Jazz/Double extension links. So if at any point we decide to move them, we can. No matter if we approve or decline these requests, the rename template on these files needs to go. I want to remove the rename media templates now and make the category Category:Wikipedia files requiring renaming usable again.

Any opposition? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:00, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Wp:Be bold.Jonteemil (talk) 20:02, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I will wait for either 24 hours or some more people supporting this before I actually remove the template from the files. Because while removing the template will be easy, putting it back would take more effort. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 20:10, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The arguments at Wikipedia talk:File names seem convincing. I would follow the advice there, and do the renaming under #3 or WP:FNC, preferably the latter. Longer term we should consider changing the policy to get the equivalent of Commons criterion #6, which specifically mentions double extensions. This point was noted above by User:Alexis Jazz. To move forward on an actual change in the policy, people have begun collecting opinions at Wikipedia talk:File names. EdJohnston (talk) 20:23, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't want to be "that guy" but I actually noted the point, not Alexis, although it seems that he agrees with it.Jonteemil (talk) 20:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Request for more input on RfC on Winona Ryder's article
Can we get more input on this RfC: Talk:Winona Ryder? The dispute is whether her relationships with two of her former boyfriends (Matt Damon and Dave Pirner) are notable enough to be included in the infobox 'partner' parameter. Thanks. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 20:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Good job, AfD
Looks like we correctly identified in 2017 that DC Solar wasn't notable enough to get an article. According to a recently-submitted article, it turned out to be a Ponzi scheme and got shut down by the US federal government in 2018. signed,Rosguill talk 22:44, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean it wasn't notable. I actually find it unlikely that any billion-dollar operation (Ponzi scheme or otherwise) isn't notable. Not impossible, but remarkable. More importantly, Wikipedia/AfD is not Trustpilot. Monsanto was a shit company (before it became a shit division of Bayer), but it's notable. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 23:10, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , I mean yeah, but it's amusing nonetheless. We inadvertently saw through their bullshit, even if there's a possibility that it wasn't for the right reasons. signed,Rosguill talk 23:13, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , it is possible that an organization could be non-notable as a business but notable as a criminal organization. Indeed, the vast majority of businesses owned by organized criminal organizations would be in that boat. It's not surprising that the promotional efforts of a Ponzi scheme (which only works if heavily-promoted) might have been the only coverage of DC Solar in 2017. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:19, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

How to writing about Wikipedia's actual impact on a topic on Wikipedia
For the video game project, we long since suspected that how we defined the console generation (eg as First generation of video game consoles, etc.) was sorta our own original research from near the creation of Wikipedia, but could not verify this was easily the case. All we know is that the main, typically non-academic but gaming press and maisntream news sources we use for the project since --- 2010 nearly all use our numbering scheme (in that the current console gen is the 8th with the PS4, Xbox One, and Switch), so there's almost been no reason to change it. However, recently I've hit upon a key academic paper that has been key to saying, "yes you guys (Wikipedia) created your own system, but so did pretty much everyone else". I've been able to work that into the section History of video game consoles (The paper itself is the Kemerer one in the refs).

My question or what advice I'm trying to seek is just making sure that how I've written that is "hands off" enough to reflect that Wikipedia had a role in identifying these, and that in how we present going forward stays with it as media since that point uses our scheme, but I've never seen a case of how to describe the "we" as in editors of Wikipedia in mainspace to the main audience like that in a more "active role" here (compared to other places like the Stop Online Piracy Act blackout). It's easy to write this way in WP: space as instructions, but not mainspace. --M asem (t) 21:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , hmm, that's an interesting case study. I don't have any immediate suggestions, but you might find it useful to look at pages like COI editing on Wikipedia or Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on Wikipedia, or guidance like Manual of Style (self-references to avoid). So long as you're following the MOS and not linking to WP-space from mainspace, etc., we should be good. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 20:47, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Is it OK to quote Covid {“clusterf**k” on campus} ?
Do I remove the asterisks? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/daily-tar-heel-editorial-unc-coronavirus_n_5f3b0385c5b670ab17aecc91 Charles Juvon (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

 * I think you should quote it as written in the original. If the original has asterisks, keep them. Chuntuk (talk) 18:59, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Thank you. Charles Juvon (talk) 19:16, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Referencing an mp3 or mp4 interview
If a person interviews another person and there is significant encyclopedic content in the interview, where does the interview have to be posted or published to serve as a Wikipedia reference? Assume neither person is currently a notable person. Also assume that no one has published a review of the interview. In fact, this is an interview of a WW2 veteran who states details about the Manhattan Project that may be heretofore unknown. Charles Juvon (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Depends. Assuming the interview is not in the public domain or freely licensed (like Creative Commons), it probably can't be uploaded here. It could probably be uploaded to archive.org and/or YouTube. Exactly who is/are the copyright holder(s) may be a rather complicated question. But if you are talking about "what would make it WP:RS?", the answer is more simple. It would have to be published by an existing RS. Say, if it appeared in a history documentary from an established documentary maker or an existing RS embeds the interview on their website. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The copyright owner is willing to freely license to Commons. However, I don't see much audio in Commons. Would you suggest that the copyright owner find a WW2 publisher that is RS? Charles Juvon (talk) 02:04, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It is possible to upload audio to Commons and/or Wikipedia. In this particular case, there are a few concerns: who is the copyright holder? If I don't know, you almost certainly don't know either. The person who recorded it? In that case, if I interview J.K. Rowling and ask her to read some paragraphs for me from one of her books, do I now own the copyright for those paragraphs of Harry Potter? And if I work for the BBC, who owns the copyright? Me or the BBC? Or technically me but do I contractually transfer nearly all my rights to my boss? (hint: probably yes)
 * There is another concern: authenticity. I can invite a friend over, we have some wild fantasies and record an interview. How would anyone know if it's real?
 * For the copyright issue, contact WP:OTRS. For the authenticity question, seek out a reliable source. Might be a local radio station or something. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * (Standard disclaimer: this is not legal advice.) The person who makes a recording owns the copyright in the recording, unless it was a work for hire, in which case the employer owns the copyright. This doesn't mean you have the right to make copies, though, if doing so would infringe other copyrights. J.K. Rowling continues to hold copyright for her work, and you would not be free to make copies of the recording without permission. However some jurisdictions have a concept of fair use or fair dealing. So if you've interviewed an author for a news story and she read a small excerpt, it would likely be covered under that. Some jurisdictions have rights of privacy or rights of publicity which also can restrict how you can use a recording. isaacl (talk) 23:00, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , sorry to throw out another policy here, but No original research may be somewhat relevant. If the information in the interview is significant enough to be encyclopedic, it will presumably be covered by reliable sources. As for the audio, if we figure out who the license holder is and they upload it to Commons, that would be great, since it could then potentially be used in the article, like e.g. here. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 20:39, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

 * I disagree about WP:NOR excluding all recorded interviews. If someone records a person who is clearly a reliable source on the subject, & puts a copy of that interview online at a durable online location (i.e., Commons or YouTube, as opposed to a website they created that might vanish at any moment), I would consider that meets our criteria for citing. For example, if one were to record an interview with Ward Cunningham about Wiki software & upload it to Commons, that is a reliable source (if cited appropriately, of course); however, if you were to interview me about why Donald Trump is a crappy president/person & upload it, it is not reliable since I (freely admittedly) am not a reliable source on the subject -- beyond being a legal voting citizen of the US. (And if that interview was uploaded to Commons & subsequently nominated for deletion, I probably would vote to delete it.) -- llywrch (talk) 21:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * But how would you verify the authenticity? Also, YouTube videos might vanish at any moment. The uploader could delete them, or I could. All it takes is a report of copyright infringement and YT takes it down. No matter how insane the report, they'll take it down. Also your account might vanish for no reason. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , we have to assume good faith. No matter what mechanisms we set up, in the end we have to assume our contributors are not lying to us when they provide a reliable source, which works most of the time. I admit does not always provide a reliable result. For instance, one now-banned contributor fabricated countless articles by citing an existing book but not providing the pages in said book where he alleged to have found this information. And then the burden of proof that they are hoaxes falls on the person who nominates them for deletion. (It's a pain finding these hoax articles, some of which he created with a sock puppet -- especially as sometimes the fiction is mixed with bits of truth.) -- llywrch (talk) 17:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * A source does not have to be available "online" in order to use it. Is this just a copy of an interview, or is it the only recording of the interview? Could a reader (even with much effort) track down the interview independently? —  xaosflux  Talk 16:52, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Even if it were Published (and posting to Commons would count for that purpose), it's still be a WP:PRIMARY source. Charles Juvon, it might be more appropriate to send this to one of the many oral history projects for veterans, such as https://www.loc.gov/vets/   WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:04, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * WhatamIdoing, great idea. I had been searching, with no luck, for an appropriate repository. Charles Juvon (talk) 20:16, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

The growing paperwork in creating an article
I'd like to point out that currently creating an article also has acquired a number of additional steps. (Not sure if all are required, but I feel compelled to do them.) The barrier to creating articles is gradually growing higher. -- llywrch (talk) 21:33, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Write the article. (And there is a lot of required unnoticed work involved in this -- but I won't discuss that here.)
 * Create a Talk page by adding WikiProject templates.
 * Look for a corresponding entry on Wikidata. If it exists, links to it; if not, create it.
 * Create a short description. (Or whatever happens to be at Wikidata shows up for mobile users.) A step I admit I forget to do.
 * Except for the first step, none of those are mandatory. Someone will come along eventually. –xenotalk 21:37, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There's also "add to categories" (but like the wikidata step, there are gnomes who seem to specialize in that). Schazjmd   (talk)  21:47, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , Just get creating. If you go via AFC others will take care of your talk page and maybe even categories. Fiddle   Faddle  21:50, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't put too much faith in AfC, having just stub-sorted Churiwal (surname) which had arrived in mainspace from AfC unnecessarily disambiguated and with no link from Churiwal. (I moved it). Pam  D  11:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , but I worry about doing a complete job. -- llywrch (talk) 21:55, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't worry. Few articles are "complete".  A good job which someone else can finish is a welcome addition. Certes (talk) 22:57, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Once upon a time, our rule was that every article should be obviously incomplete in some respect, in the hope that another editor would get involved in the article/Wikipedia. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 * I'd add,
 * If it's a disambiguated title, make a dab page entry or hatnote so that readers can find it from the basic, non-disambiguated, title.
 * and ideally also:
 * Make redirects from likely alternative titles
 * Add to surname page, if it's a biography
 * Pam D  22:37, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

 * reminded me of another, add WP:DEFAULTSORT on bios. Also, find other articles in which to add wikilinks back to your article to de-orphanize it. Schazjmd   (talk)  22:41, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Not only bios need DEFAULTSORT: titles starting with "The " etc too. Pam D  05:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Aha, see, I didn't know that. Maybe we could use a checklist... Schazjmd   (talk)  06:24, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

 * That good point about surnames can be generalised to: add it to any lists of which it is a member. Do we need a how-to page somewhere in WP: space?  Help:Your first article is useful and covers topics such as incoming links (#Avoid orphans) but it omits many good points made above and the title won't appeal to regulars.  Certes (talk) 22:57, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We should certainly be trying to minimize the barrier to entry, but I'm not sure there's anything we could reasonably do to reduce the tasks listed here; they're all pretty important and non-automatable. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 09:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * A script could be written that provides a nice GUI which suggests the actions that need to be done. It could check the dab page and see if it contains a link to this article (for pages with disambig terms in title), point out the existence of first name/surname pages (for bios), provide quick links to year pages (where birth/death is to be recorded), provide suggestions for redirects. And allow adding shortdesc, wikidata item and categories from the same GUI. Adding talk templates is a bit complicated -- maybe this script could just call Evad37's rater script. SD0001 (talk) 13:33, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For biographies, at present the DEFAULTSORT has to be added manually and also the "listas=" parameter in the WP Bio talk page banner has to hold the identical information. It ought to be possible to automate this so that the info doesn't need to be added twice.
 * It would also be possible for a bot to run regularly to flag up cases where the article "Foo (xyz)" doesn't have a link from "Foo", either by hatnote or dab page. To my mind that navigational link is more important than most of the other things we're worrying about here: without it, the reader struggles to find the article, and a future editor may well create a duplicate at "Foo (xzy)" if that's another plausible title.
 * A bot could also look for cases where the bolded title in start of lead isn't the same as the article title and there is no redirect from it, and either create the redirect automatically or flag it up for wikignomes: quite often creating that redirect resolves a red link in an existing article where, for example, a person is listed under their full name complete with the middle name they don't usuallly use. Pam D  11:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , for DEFAULTSORT, that sounds like an excellent bot task; please take it to WP:BOTREQ! Same goes with the bolding, which if editors are following MOS:BOLD properly should turn up a lot (more likely, it'll turn up a lot of MOS:BOLD violations, but that's useful too.
 * For disambiguations, that's definitely an issue, but programming a bot for it may be a little more involved. For instance, for some pages, the hatnote is For other uses, see Foo (disambiguation), which only then links to the page. I'm sure there are other edge cases as well. A bot wouldn't need to be perfect if it's just flagging cases for human editors to fix, but it'd be need to be good enough to not be filled with false positives. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 18:59, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For disambiguations, that's definitely an issue, but programming a bot for it may be a little more involved. For instance, for some pages, the hatnote is For other uses, see Foo (disambiguation), which only then links to the page. I'm sure there are other edge cases as well. A bot wouldn't need to be perfect if it's just flagging cases for human editors to fix, but it'd be need to be good enough to not be filled with false positives. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 18:59, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Summarizing an article
The lead of an article needs to have a summary of the article, but Cleavage (breasts) has anything but that in the lead. I wrote the article in most part, but now I find myself unable to summarize it crisply enough for the lead. I have have been to the LEADTEAM and recieved some help. But not in summarizing the article. Is there anyone who can lend a hand here? I promise to be as much help as I can, but I need someone to take the lead in writing the lead (bad pun intended). I don't know where else I can go begging for help. Anyone? Please? Aditya (talk • contribs) 13:11, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Update request
Please go on meta:Requests for new languages and change to created the Wikipedia Ladin on the approved section. Thank you in advance!!! --<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 12:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Done! the wub "?!"  14:24, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Reference trends
This signpost report got me thinking about measuring Wikipedia's growth. Has anyone ever measured it by the number of footnotes? Seems like it would be easy enough to do by counting instances of, and it would give an important measure of Wikipedia's progress over time. (Seems better than measuring article count, article length, etc.) I didn't see this when I looked in a few obvious places. Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Important: maintenance operation on September 1st
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The Wikimedia Foundation will be testing its secondary data centre. This will make sure that Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster. To make sure everything is working, the Wikimedia Technology department needs to do a planned test. This test will show if they can reliably switch from one data centre to the other. It requires many teams to prepare for the test and to be available to fix any unexpected problems.

They will switch all traffic to the secondary data centre on Tuesday, September 1st 2020.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop while the switch is made. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.

 * You will not be able to edit for up to an hour on Tuesday, September 1st. The test will start at 14:00 UTC (15:00 BST, 16:00 CEST, 10:00 EDT, 19:30 IST, 07:00 PDT, 23:00 JST, and in New Zealand at 02:00 NZST on Wednesday September 2).
 * If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it.  If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal.  Then you should be able to save your edit.  But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

Other effects:

 * Background jobs will be slower and some may be dropped. Red links might not be updated as quickly as normal. If you create an article that is already linked somewhere else, the link will stay red longer than usual. Some long-running scripts will have to be stopped.
 * There will be code freezes for the week of September 1st, 2020. Non-essential code deployments will not happen.

This project may be postponed if necessary. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. Any changes will be announced in the schedule. There will be more notifications about this. Please share this information with your community. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

 * will a Cental Notice be up for this, or should we do something locally? We don't normally advertise short outages, but with this one being longer we may want to consider one. — xaosflux  Talk 14:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , yes, I'll setup CentralNotice banner. It will be displayed during the 30 minutes prior to the event. Then the global lock message will be shown. However, any initiative taken by the communities to inform other users is welcomed. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 14:31, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , I assume this will also be in Tech News? -- RoySmith (talk) 14:47, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It was in 2020-33 and 34 but a reminder wouldn't hurt. Certes (talk) 14:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It is already in the next issue. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 15:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Request for more input on RfC
Any chance of more input on this RfC: Talk:Christina Ricci? The dispute is whether, since Ricci has filed for divorce from her husband, it should state "separated" in the marriage template or not. Thanks. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 01:10, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Is there anyway to make the content of template appear only once after transclusion
I have a question that is there is any magic word or other wiki markup to make template display only once even if the template has multiple instances on the same page. For example, if the template is used at the first position, it appears after you submit the change, then if the template used at another position of content, it doesn't display at all. --Great Brightstar (talk) 12:41, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any such magical spell. But I am also not able to devise any reason to design one. Can you describe a specific case where such behavior is desired? --CiaPan (talk) 12:56, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be a good idea to answer CiaPan's question, and then if you want to pursue this to post at Village pump (technical), where more people who could answer your question hang out. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:57, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Template expansion is stateless, so template one cannot set a variable and have template two test for it. However, CSS does have the concept of first child of a thing, so perhaps there is some way to hide the second instance of a template. Can you point to a specific case where this is needed? — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 19:14, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I just had an idea for this.--Great Brightstar (talk) 03:47, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

La Valencia Mine/The Valenciana Mine
Is La Valencia Mine = The Valenciana Mine? If so, is one article enough? // Zquid (talk) 11:44, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You are correct. I have renamed The Valenciana Mine to Valenciana Mine and redirected La Valencia Mine to it. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Thank you! And I found the articles because user 24-30 August arranged "Weekly contest" about Mexico in sv-wp (sv:Wikipedia:Veckans tävling/Tema Mexiko). The contest made things better not only in sv-wp. :-) // Zquid (talk) 11:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Collections Now Available (September 2020)
Hello Wikimedians! The Wikipedia Library is announcing new free, full-access, accounts to reliable sources as part of our research access program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials on the Library Card platform:
 * Al Manhal – Arabic journals and ebooks
 * Ancestry.com – Genealogical and historical records
 * RILM – Music encyclopedias

Many other partnerships are listed on our partners page, including Adam Matthew, EBSCO, Gale and JSTOR.

A significant portion of our collection now no longer requires individual applications to access! Read more in our recent blog post.

Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects! --The Wikipedia Library Team 09:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

 * This message was delivered via the Global Mass Message tool to The Wikipedia Library Global Delivery List.

Peer review request
Requesting peer review at Peer review/Women in Islam/archive1,

Bookku (talk) 09:54, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Third opinions requests

 * 1) Talk:Overseas Pakistani.
 * 2) Talk:British Pakistanis.

Disagreement about deletion of section and sources. Requesting third opinion per WP:3O Bookku (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * This is not the place to request third opinion. Please follow the instructions at Third_opinion RudolfRed (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

"Public thanks"?
What does that mean? It shows up when you thank someone. Where can the "public" see who thanked whom and when and for what? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:03, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Who and whom and when, but not for what, are at Special:Log/thanks. —Cryptic 10:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Planning to add Template:Cleanup translation to 1000+ pages
See this archived discussion on AN.

I want to add to all the pages listed on User:S Marshall/sandbox. As this is a mass edit I'm announcing it here.

. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:36, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , are you able to identify the source language for each of these articles? If not, perhaps Rough translation would be a better fit? Either way, thank you very much for taking this on. – bradv  🍁  01:12, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I should be able to figure that out. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:31, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You can get that information from WP:AN/CXT/PTR.—S Marshall T/C 07:59, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be even better if you fixed the pages yourself. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:30, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * My priority is to get them categorized by source language. (using the cleanup template) Once that's done, I can look at the ones that were translated from a language that I understand. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * By the way, if anyone gets the idea of just checking the facts using English sources, be very careful to avoid citogenesis. You can try to avoid this by using sources that predate the English article or sources that clearly didn't rely on Wikipedia. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:10, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

 * , I glanced only briefly at the AN thread, but it looks like there's some longstanding context. I won't attempt to delve into that, but regarding the status of the articles at present, I just spot checked three random ones. Two, Arteche Group and Shahriyar Jamshidi look good; tagging these as needing cleanup would be erroneous. The third one, Secretariat of Public Works, Transport and Housing (Honduras), could probably use a bit of cleanup, so that's at least alright.
 * If these pages are only possibly in need of cleanup, it might be better to introduce a parameter that changes the wording on the template to "may need attention" and use that. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 01:18, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Arteche Group began as a raw machine translation of fr:Arteche (it's a Spanish corporation but the article is a translation from the French). In 2019, Beland tagged it with copyedit and three days later, it was imperfectly fixed up into plausible English by Lfstevens, who removed the tag.  Judging by the contribution history of Bssanssanchez, the original author, I'd say he's not fluent in English, and I don't have any reason to think anyone who's edited it has fluent French.  At first glance, the translation isn't terrible; the promotional and unencyclopaedic tone is in the original.—S Marshall T/C 16:29, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't speak a single word of Sorani Kurdish so I can't evaluate Shahriyar Jamshidi in the same way. All I can do is confirm that it says the same thing that de:Shahriyar Jamshidi says.  A needlessly picky person might raise quibbles about some of the sources in Mr Jamshidi's article, but I'm not the notability police, so I wouldn't do anything so unkind.  For the purposes of this project, if I was the reviewing editor, I'd simply tag it with ckb on the talk page and delete it from the working list.—S Marshall T/C 17:16, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair point, I added a type parameter to Cleanup translation. See User:Alexis Jazz/sandbox for an example. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair point, I added a type parameter to Cleanup translation. See User:Alexis Jazz/sandbox for an example. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Abuse response template
Abuse response has been marked as "closed down by community consensus, [and] retained only for historical reference" since 2013; the related template, AR talk, likewise, is marked "currently inactive and is retained for historical reference".

Nonetheless, the template is transcluded on over 100 pages, mostly if not all IP talk pages, on which it says "this IP address is currently the subject of an open Abuse Response investigation"

Should the template be deleted, or each transclusion removed? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

2020 CheckUser and Oversight appointments: announcement
The Arbitration Committee is seeking to appoint additional editors to the Checkuser and Oversight teams. The arbitrators overseeing this will be Bradv, KrakatoaKatie, and Xeno.

The usernames of all applicants will be shared with the Functionaries team, and they will assist in the vetting process.

This year's timeline is as follows:

 * 7 September to 19 September: Candidates may self-nominate by contacting the Arbitration Committee at.
 * 20 September to 23 September: The Arbitration Committee and Functionaries will vet the candidates.
 * 24 September to 26 September: The committee will notify candidates going forward for community consultation and create the candidate subpages containing the submitted nomination statements.
 * 27 September to 7 October: Nomination statements will be published and the candidates are invited to answer questions publicly. The community is invited and encouraged to participate.
 * By 14 October: Appointments will be announced.

For the Arbitration Committee, Katietalk 23:02, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Article Superstition in Judaism has been nominated for deletion
Hello,

Since some editors are contesting existence of articles associating religions and religious communities to superstitions, One of the article which concerns topic has been nominated for deletion. You can support or contest the deletion at Articles for deletion/Superstition in Judaism by putting forward your opinion.

Thanks and regards Bookku (talk) 05:03, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Default page image on facebook
When posting a link to a Wikipedia page on facebook, if the page has no image on it, a fuzzy image of a padlock is substituted. This seems like a really peculiar choice! Assuming wp has some control, almost anything would be better! How about the wp globe, or a cap W? Mwanner | Talk 14:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that some page here (en.wikipedia.org) has a link to a Facebook page with text copied from Wikipedia? Why would that be done, and why would we worry about how a Facebook page appears? Johnuniq (talk) 01:05, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I think the poster is saying that when you share a Wikipedia article on Facebook, sometimes the default image selected by facebook is a fuzzy padlock. I assume this happens to semi-protected pages where the padlock is the only image on them. I'm not sure that there's anything we can do about this, but if someone knows someone at facebook it wouldn't hurt to ask them if there's a way to change this on facebook's end. Calliopejen1 (talk) 01:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It would have to be done on our end, but it Looks like it's incredibly straightforward. Just make the wiki logo the default somehow. The documentation is at https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters/images/ -~ ฅ(ↀωↀ=) neko-channyan 07:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm against any engagement with Facebook, particularly one that makes it even a tiny bit more functional (and therefore more attractive). Facebook is bad, at least in the political sphere, and that matters because they are so big. Herostratus (talk) 19:06, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Facebook's instructions say to add an  tag.  Although called Open Graph, this protocol appears to be specific to Facebook.  If so then I think we should omit it as we do with Google Analytics and other proprietary tracking. Certes (talk) 19:29, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * T204054 may have more on this. — xaosflux  Talk 19:52, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems to have been taken care of... I just saw a link to a Wikipedia page that showed no image at all, a great improvement. As for the suggestion that we should avoid any engagement with Facebook, that strikes me as absurd.  I see people on Facebook trot out the usual "Wikipedia is unreliable" crap, and I refute them at length.  You may think Facebook is a terrible, dreadful thing, but it is not going away, and it is immensely influential. Besides, this isn't about making Facebook more functional, it is about making Wikipedia look less peculiar when it is linked to on Facebook. Mwanner | Talk 00:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I have a question
Hi, ^_^, first of all I am not angry at all, I am just frustrated at some policies. I was working on articles about Aum Shinrikyo members. They have all pages in the Japanese Wikipedia and most in the Chinese as well. My question is, why don't even the ones who were executed in 2018 qualify for an article but American articles about the Manson family, most of whom did not even commit a crime have their place? I see double standards or it's really me that is wrong?. Well, thank you and hope you have an awesome day. --CoryGlee (talk) 17:49, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Did the articles ever exist and then get deleted? I am guessing the reason the articles are not here is because no one wrote them. Sources in Japanese are OK if you can understand them enough to write an English article. You are seeing WP:systematic bias. I have moved your article to Kazuaki Okazaki. But I did cut out some copied text. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:28, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you for the review of the article. I was mostly enthusiast because I was reading a book about the Aum group. Yes, I may have overreacted about systemic bias. I had the example of Tomomasa Nakagawa, on which I extensively worked and it was redirected almost instantly while Manson family insignificant members like Tex Watson have a page. Again, I may be wrong, it was just my opinion. I will be submitting drafts instead of articles for review about further Aum members. Thank you again and sorry If I sounded rude, that's the last thing I meant to be. --CoryGlee (talk) 14:42, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Do those individual members satisfy our notability standards, say as per WP:CRIME? I well remember those attacks by Aum Shinrikyo but individual members received very little coverage in English. I can't speak for in Japan. As for the Mansion family, they have been a very central part of American history because their story has gotten entangled with that of pop culture. It's hard to overstate how much media coverage they have gotten. It's not a crime itself that makes people notable, it's the coverage of their crime. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:08, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Draft pages turning up in a Google search
Question: I recently speedy deleted several drafts per G3 as hoaxes. In doing a BEFORE search at Google I was surprised to find that the drafts turned up in a Google search. I thought drafts were not supposed to be indexed? -- MelanieN (talk) 20:04, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Controlling_search_engine_indexing agrees with you. User, User talk, Draft, and Draft Talk are supposed to be not indexed.  Not sure if something has changed in that regard.  Maybe ask at WP:VPT RudolfRed (talk) 20:50, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Will move my question there. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe this has something to do with articles being automatically indexed after a while? I didn't think drafts would be affected too though. Adam9007 (talk) 20:56, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Daily habits
I'm looking at some research that suggests part of what makes people edit frequently is working editing into a daily habit. I know I have one: I pick up my laptop every morning and click the button that opens a bunch of tabs, especially Special:Notifications and the history for WT:MED. I've done this for years.

But I don't know how it works for others. I think some folks are mostly after-work-hours editors. Do you have a daily habit that works for you, or that you would recommend to others? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:16, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I edit Wikipedia at odd moments that I get during the day here in England. This usually includes a short time in the morning and evening and, if I don't have any day-long commitments such as child care, at other times during the day. I usually look at my watchlist (which is far too long because I'm not disciplined enough to delete things from it) and at articles that are undergoing any of our deletion processes. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I used to have my watchlist on my "morning" button, but I gave up on it a few years ago. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:05, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Daily habits
I'm looking at some research that suggests part of what makes people edit frequently is working editing into a daily habit. I know I have one: I pick up my laptop every morning and click the button that opens a bunch of tabs, especially Special:Notifications and the history for WT:MED. I've done this for years.

But I don't know how it works for others. I think some folks are mostly after-work-hours editors. Do you have a daily habit that works for you, or that you would recommend to others? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:16, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I edit Wikipedia at odd moments that I get during the day here in England. This usually includes a short time in the morning and evening and, if I don't have any day-long commitments such as child care, at other times during the day. I usually look at my watchlist (which is far too long because I'm not disciplined enough to delete things from it) and at articles that are undergoing any of our deletion processes. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I used to have my watchlist on my "morning" button, but I gave up on it a few years ago. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:05, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Polish
Hello! I hope you cn help me with the translation of following Polish words:

 * «Szkolenia Wojska Polskiego»
 * «Główny Zarząd Polityczny Wojska Polskiego»
 * «Gospodarki terenowej»
 * «Wojsk Obrony Powietrznej Kraju»

Thank you in advance! Best wishes! --Mbakkel2 (talk) 07:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Consider asking at WT:POLAND. These are military terms. EdJohnston (talk) 17:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Google Translate usually does a pretty good job of translation between Polish and English, and, unless any of those terms have an "official" name in English that is different, it seems to me (my Polish is pretty fluent) that it translates those phrases correctly, except you should note that three of your examples are in the genitive case, with the last being plural. The nominative singular would be:

 * «Szkolenie Wojska Polskiego»
 * «Główny Zarząd Polityczny Wojska Polskiego»
 * «Gospodarka terenowa»
 * «Wojsko Obrony Powietrznej Kraju»

Phil Bridger (talk) 18:38, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

 * The term "Wojsko Polskie" is a common name for Polish military forces of all kinds (see the lead in Polish Armed Forces). "Szkolenie" = training. The first term lacks a word, it was probably something like "Ośrodek Szkolenia Wojska Polskiego" (Polish Army Training Center), "Główny Inspektor Szkolenia Wojska Polskiego" (General inspector/supervisor of training) etc.
 * Google translates "Główny Zarząd Polityczny Wojska Polskiego" as 'Main Political Board of the Polish Army'. That seems quite reasonable (as far as I can tell – I'm not very fluent in English), but you may try to see the translation of the pl-wiki article pl:Główny Zarząd Polityczny Wojska Polskiego for a little more information.
 * "Gospodarka" = economics. "Gospodarka terenowa" = terrain economics (be aware of my not-so-good English), a part of economics is the responsibility of local governments as opposed to centralized administration.
 * "pl:Wojska Obrony Powietrznej Kraju" = anti-air forces, one of four kinds of Polish armed forces in 1962-1990 to defend the country from airplane and rocket attacks (the other three were "wojska lądowe" land forces, "wojska lotnicze" air forces and "marynarka wojenna" navy).
 * HTH. --CiaPan (talk) 07:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * HTH. --CiaPan (talk) 07:02, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Hello! Thank you very much to both of you. Best wishes --Mbakkel2 (talk) 08:40, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Why is Wikipedia so cool?
Just asking cause I think it's cool — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Sheldonator (talk • contribs) 18:38, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * A passing admin might want to look at the OP's user page and decide whether it's block-worthy or just a bit of childish silliness. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:54, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Well I don't think it reaches the level of childish silliness. But I blocked them. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 00:48, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Fashion campaign banner
I've put a request for a three-day fashion campaign banner at CentralNotice/Request/Wiki Loves Fashion 2020.--Pharos (talk) 20:40, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Guardian article will probably increase commercially motivated editing
Link. Tony (talk)  05:28, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The researchers claim to have translated some presumably accurate and balanced articles from other wikipedias. Although commercially motivated, this seems to be a win for enwiki, for the town and for the newspaper which has an experiment to write up.  Of course, many other forms of paid editing remain unwelcome. Certes (talk) 08:27, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Per the article, they didn't edit en-WP. Unless they edited Collegio Carlo Alberto. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice that Alex Hern took time to report it and publish it in a WP:RS. Most of the article was useful, but he could have gone back to Daria for a comment rather than linking back to his previous article in the final two paragraphs. I see that there are three implications for us. Firstly we need to be a bit more diligent in watching for WP:COI. Secondly we should write a little tutorial on how to avoid Commercial and CoI in writing location articles. Then explain how they can constructively add to an article.Explaining copyediting and the use of the Talk page. Thirdly, and most excitingly we can engage with the authority and just ask them to release images in their own archives under a CC-SA-BY license (notice that NC must be missing) and put a CC-0 on text pages in their online and print publications. Something similar to Open Government Licence v3.0. --ClemRutter (talk) 09:53, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Could someone take a look at Collegio Carlo Alberto it is still a stub, needs infobox, references, and photographs. ClemRutter (talk) 09:53, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Notification on global ban proposal for a LTA
This is a notification of global ban discussion against Sidowpknbkhihj, pursuant to the global ban policy.

My regards.  SMB9 9thx   my edits  09:40, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Copied from WP:AN and modified.  SMB9 9thx   my edits  12:57, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

User script testing: section-watchlist
I wrote a user script to watchlist sections. It's still pretty unreliable, but you can try it out at User:Enterprisey/section-watchlist. It's not ready for general use (I'll post, perhaps, on WP:VPT when that's the case) but I'm ready to see what everyone else thinks of it - what could be improved, bugs you come across, etc. Enterprisey (talk!) 09:16, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful, for the same reason that it would be useful to have this facility, if you could name a dedicated page that we can watch for progress rather than WP:VPT. I'm rather disinclined to put that page on my watchlist because much of what is posted there is gobbledygook to me. Anyway, that's only a minor point: the most important thing is to thank you for working on this. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:15, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , true; I'll also post on User talk:Enterprisey/section-watchlist with updates, which I should've mentioned in the original post. And you're welcome! Enterprisey (talk!) 18:47, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Request for more input on RfC
Can we get some more input on this RfC: Talk:Liu Yifei? The question is whether the lead should refer to her as "Chinese-born American" or "Chinese-American"? Thanks. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 19:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Boosting size of wide aspect ratio images
9 times out 10, when I come across an image with a wide aspect ratio on a lesser-watched page, it's too small and needs to be made larger using  or similar. Is there any way we could set up a tracking list of potentially too small images and then go through them with AWB or something to fix a bunch of them? {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 00:31, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You could try? a db query (WP:RAQ) but I don't think that will work, so I think you would probably need a bot to work through all the images used on Wikipedia and see if they have the appropriate sizing, and consensus that such an activity as changing the sizing would be welcome. --Izno (talk) 02:40, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Very long pages
As shown at Special:LongPages we now have 81 pages with over 400K of wikicode; the longest has 712,082 bytes; these pages should be subdivided, each into several sections. Please help to do so, or join disucsisons on their respective talk pages to decide how to do so. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:54, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Boosting size of wide aspect ratio images
9 times out 10, when I come across an image with a wide aspect ratio on a lesser-watched page, it's too small and needs to be made larger using  or similar. Is there any way we could set up a tracking list of potentially too small images and then go through them with AWB or something to fix a bunch of them? {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 00:31, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You could try? a db query (WP:RAQ) but I don't think that will work, so I think you would probably need a bot to work through all the images used on Wikipedia and see if they have the appropriate sizing, and consensus that such an activity as changing the sizing would be welcome. --Izno (talk) 02:40, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Very long pages
As shown at Special:LongPages we now have 81 pages with over 400K of wikicode; the longest has 712,082 bytes; these pages should be subdivided, each into several sections. Please help to do so, or join disucsisons on their respective talk pages to decide how to do so. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:54, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Volunteers must declare that they are paid?
.

Major AFC fail re: Korean literature
I invite people to look at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation. Just wanting to make sure the community is aware of some problems at AFC and thinking about how they can be solved. Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:55, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I have been involved in AFC for a couple of months now. I started reviewing articles there when I realised the extent of the backlog there, which I wasn't previously aware of. I am very concerned about AFC becoming the place where articles (and new editors) go to die. These are some of my problems with it:

 * When new editors have to wait months for a draft article to be reviewed it is inevitable that some of them won't hang around long enough to improve it if it's rejected first time.
 * The process by which one editor can reject a draft on their own subjects drafts to a higher standard than AfD does. When an article is proposed at AfD it will require at least one editor to give a policy-based reason to delete the article, it gives other editors an opportunity to make counter-arguments, and then an administrator would have to decide to delete the article. Additionally articles get rejected at AfC for reasons such as tone which would rarely result in an article getting declined at AfD. Also the principle of WP:BEFORE doesn't seem to apply at AfC.
 * The AfC standard that an article should be accepted if it would have a 50% chance of passing AfD is too high. We shouldn't be declining articles that have a fair chance of passing AfD without subjecting them to a process similar to AfD.
 * The AfC process doesn't prevent competent spammers from introducing articles into mainspace. A competent spammer/sock-farm/UPE can easily meet the requirements to be able to create articles in mainspace. AfC only serves the purpose of restricting newbies (good or bad faith)
 * Bad quality drafts tend to get rejected at AfC quickly because reviewers can trivially determine that they don't meet requirements. It's the good drafts that require the reviewer to actually read the sources and check the content that tend to sit at AfC for weeks or months. Surely the new editors who are creating good quality articles are the ones that we should be doing the most to encourage to stay and contribute, but AfC has the opposite effect.
 * AfC isn't a good platform for articles to actually get improved. Articles that could be improved (i.e. reliable sources exist but aren't adequately cited, or tone of the article could be changed) are habitually rejected with template messages. Pi (Talk to me!)  18:13, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Just noting other part of the discussion at AfC Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation so people are informed KylieTastic (talk) 19:24, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Cross posting proposal (edited) from above AfC discussion :
 * I think the problem is that if AfC doesn't accept articles with in the 50-75% chance of surviving AfD one group of editors will complain, but if they do another set of editors will complain. Apparently some editors are calling for getting rid of AfC completely it seems to show they don't understand the level of crud (100+ a day) that is submitted, which I assume is a fraction of what would be created if not having to submit to review. It seems that these editors mostly see the failure to accept "OK articles" and not the crud, and those on the other fence mostly see the crud and not the missed good articles . Although ideally I would just like to see many more reviewers, and more wikiprojects involved so the AfC reviews are done better and quicker I think that is a pipe-dream. I think a possible solution is too take reviewers partially out of the marginal accepts. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 19:41, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Proposal 1 redefine AfCs role from "judge and jury" of articles (as Calliopejen1 and others have said), to crud rejectors, speedy acceptors and improvers. This could be done by just saying if an submission is not accepted, declined or rejected in x weeks a bot automatically moves, tags, categorises and adds talk page notes so it's status is clear. The clearly good and bad would still be accepted/declined hopefully in the first few days of submission, and it would be worth people making improvements to make possibly notable but terribly formatted more acceptable if auto-moved to main-space. If AfC has come to no conclusion in x weeks, effectively NPP and consensus takes over. It's a compromise between the two camps that seam to exist at the moment, that hopefully addresses the worst concerns of both.
 * Proposal 2 same as above but each article needs to be tagged by an AfC reviewer in some way to effectively say "this is not a clear accept/decline but has been reviewed" - this would stop things just being missed and auto-moved. We would need a bot to stop random people adding the tag.
 * Proposal 3 as either of above but also clarify as per TryKid @ AfC:Before This Hits the Fan that the key checks are just notability/source checks (and basic formatting, i.e. not all caps in bold) - make it easier for reviewers to accept marginals without the abuse and complaints.
 * Note 1 This should preserve the non patrolled status meaning it would just add an evaluation delay to non autopatrolled additions and be picked up by NPP
 * Note 2 We could start at the current AfC backlog (9 weeks) and slowly reduce to 2-4 weeks

Thanks for cross-posting this. My intention here was just to provide a pointer to the relevant discussion at WT:AFC. I propose that further discussion happen there, so all of the discussion is kept in one place. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:44, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 * By the way, I think I did not include enough detail in my original posting, and I'm not sure this was the best place to post it, so I started a new discussion at WP:VPP. Please have a look at my description of the situation there. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:37, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

lack of knowledge question
On looking for Battle of Cape Matapan I searched for "Cape Matapan" and got Cape Matapan, which has no redirect options to the battle, which is what I had expected. What Cape Matapan seems to need is one of those common Wikipedia statements that goes something like "for other uses of Matapan, see Matapan" (which is a disambiguation page). I do not seem to be able to track down the precise format for adding such a statement. Can someone point me at the right language and/or help text to explain its correct usage? Thanks,ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 07:36, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I've added a hatnote at Cape Matapan. For good measure I linked to the other battle too: not sure whether that will survive, though I reckon it's useful. Pam  D  07:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , for future reference, see Hatnote. —andrybak (talk) 00:25, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Mention of Time 100 in the lead
With the announcement of the 2020 TIME 100, a fellow Wikipedia editor has added "[NAME] was included in Time magazine 's 100 Most Influential People of 2020." in many (not all) of the people named in the list. Do you consider it worth mentioning in the lead (or at all)? It sounds like merely re-asserting the fact, well established by the content of the Wikipedia article, that world leaders such as Angela Merkel are influential. --Jabo-er (talk) 00:18, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Jabo-er, I think that the right answer depends on the article. If it's obvious that the person is notable (e.g., Merkel) then IMO it does not belong in the lead, and maybe not in the article at all.  In less obvious cases, it could be helpful. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:15, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Academics pushing own research
I've been noticing an author publishing his own research as part of a wiki article. This research has been published in a peer-reviewed journal. However - its very recent and has not been cited/critiqued by anybody else. What exactly are the policies regarding this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Potaman (talk • contribs) 06:04, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

 * , not policy, but Expert editors has good advice, for example #7. See also guidance at WP:SELFCITE. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:45, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Opinions can be asked at WP:COIN. A discussion about a similar incident is in this ANI section. Johnuniq (talk) 23:46, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I ran into a case of an academic with major self-citing at Unisex public toilet, where the author is (or was) responsible for about half the content, and has a definite point of view. I pushed back for a while, but got a lot of resistance, and in the end, it wasn't where I wanted to spend my time. At one point, the following comment was directed at me, which to this day, is my fave comment ever from an academic, regarding COI and SELFCITE (excerpted from a longer response on the Talk page) :
 * I never realized how easy these situations were to clear up. I went off to greener pastures, and left the article to its fate. Mathglot (talk) 07:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I never realized how easy these situations were to clear up. I went off to greener pastures, and left the article to its fate. Mathglot (talk) 07:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Where Would I Suggest A New Project For The Wikipedia Store?
I have an idea for a new product for the Wikipedia store (a t-shirt saying "Be Bold", based off a mug design) but I'm not exactly sure where I would propose this. Any suggestions? Squid45 (talk) 17:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * To be honest, unless you are writing about an issue with an order-in-progress, I wouldn't expect them to respond to a random person like you or me. However, at the bottom of their website, there is an "Email Us" link that points to . You could try that. The worst they could do is say no or not respond, I suppose. Mz7 (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I never knew that there is a Wikipedia store. There is no link from the home page. There is no reference to it that I could find in Wikipedia itself - no Wikipedia Store or even Wikimedia Store. They actually sell Wikipedia Socks! — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 18:36, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , there used to be a link in the left sidebar, but it was removed earlier this year as a result of Requests for comment/2020 left sidebar update. Nowadays I'm not sure how you would stumble across it. Mz7 (talk) 03:23, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

How to get participant in an RfC?
An RfC at Indian subcontinent looked initially like WP:SNOW, but then participation dried up, from both ends of the dispute. I have tried posting all relevant Wikiprojects (9 of them), but no result. I have also requested all the admins who took a look at the RfC to comment, no result again. How can I get more particpants in the discussion? Aditya (talk • contribs) 02:24, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Next time you need a short and clear statement of the issue, not a rambling and fairly incoherent disquisition, referring to equally rambling and fairly incoherent discussions above, that fails to make clear what you actually want comments on. But you seem to have a decent number of comments now. Johnbod (talk) 02:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But that doesn't solve anything for the current RfC. The "rambling and fairly incoherent disquisition" has been collapsed before I posted this query, and the "equally rambling and fairly incoherent discussions above" is probably no part of the RfC. Anyways, I'll probably have to figure out on my own how to do this (and not step on any red tapes). Thanks again for the advise for the "next time". Aditya (talk • contribs) 06:04, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd ask someone (not me) for help crafting a clear and concise question next time. Johnbod (talk) 21:28, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Aditya Kabir, you can ask for help at WT:RFC. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:17, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Request for block
Shout-out to administrators of English Wikipedia! Please block this user User:Wan588 because he has been adding fake information in articles and had been blocked as well in Malay Wikipedia. Thank you.CyberTroopers (talk) 15:27, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I have warned User:Wan588 for edit warring, and take note of their six month block on the Malay Wikipedia. Though I am unclear on the reason for such a long block. EdJohnston (talk) 16:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contest
. Please help pick a name for the new Wikimedia wiki project. This project will be a wiki where the community can work together on a library of functions. The community can create new functions, read about them, discuss them, and share them. Some of these functions will be used to help create language-independent Wikipedia articles that can be displayed in any language, as part of the Abstract Wikipedia project. But functions will also be usable in many other situations.

There will be two rounds of voting, each followed by legal review of candidates, with voting beginning on 29 September and 27 October. Our goal is to have a final project name selected on 8 December. If you would like to participate, then please learn more and vote now at meta-wiki. --Quiddity (WMF) 21:19, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Please explain further... some of us may not understand what a “function” is (are we talking math?). Blueboar (talk) 21:54, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Function here means subroutine, and the wiki could be regarded as a library (computing). Certes (talk) 22:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Nope... didn’t help... I still have no idea what the concept is here. Obviously, I am not in your market audience. Good luck. Blueboar (talk) 23:23, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It's about code reuse: writing bits of software once and putting them where others can find them. So if User:Foo has written a good algorithm to sort a list into date order, I can borrow it for my new program, rather than taking the trouble to write another one and risk getting it wrong. Certes (talk) 00:04, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Blueboar, imagine that instead of writing "Excelsior is a historic building", you could write " ", and the system could automagically translate that sentence into a hundred languages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:26, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah... using magic spells and sorcery to automatically translate text... got it. Thanks. Sadly, I don’t have the arcane skills to participate in such demonology, so I will leave you to it. Blueboar (talk) 23:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * After listening to the clinic on it, I'm much more aware of what the black magic involves, but I still felt confident I wouldn't be able to do it - leave it to the wizards! Nosebagbear (talk) 09:16, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The project has two parts. The first part creates a library of software functions to allow code reuse; this message invites us to help choose its name.  The second part, Abstract Wikipedia, supports Wikipedia articles in a language-independent way.  Abstract Wikipedia will be the main user of the library of functions. Certes (talk) 12:36, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

 * All joking aside, now that I have read the page describing Abstract Wikipedia, I have some very serious questions about how it will operate. It certainly needs a much more PUBLIC discussion on how it would interact with en.Wikipedia, the effect it would have on our articles, and our editing experience. Blueboar (talk) 23:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I am not seeing anything that says Abstract Wikipedia will affect en.Wikipedia. Firstly, the project will take a couple of years to deliver much - Abstract Wikipedia is scheduled to start in roughly 2022. ( and MW:Extension:WikiLambda is just a placeholder so far.) Secondly, small wikis with a shortage of hand crafted articles will have the option to use abstract.Wikipedia to build text for articles in their specific language. I see that as an evolution of templates that source data from Wikidata - nobody has to use them, but they can be effective in some areas. Doubtless I am missing something, but I am having trouble finding any concrete high-level examples of what is ultimately intended. — GhostInTheMachine talk to me

Eyal Zamir
This article was deleted as "does not credibly indicate the importance or significance of the subject". But Eyal Zamir is the current Deputy Chiefs of Staff of the Israel Defense Forces since december 2018. As far as I can see the admin that deleted the atricle - User:Bbb23 is retired. Can someone look at it. --geageaTalk 23:13, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 * See here. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 14:08, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --geageaTalk 18:01, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Breaking categorization cycles
You are invited to join the discussion at User talk:SDZeroBot/Category cycles. —andrybak (talk) 18:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Should the use of the 'Undisclosed paid' template be explained on article talk pages?
Please contribute to the discussion at Template talk:Undisclosed paid. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:15, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

“Hello, and welcome to the Wikimedia Foundation!”
I just found this page here, on the MetaWiki. This was intended to serve as an introductory to the project, but this shows miserable writing skill and was obviously written by a newcomer. Should we delete the page, rewrite it, or what should we do about this? - Wzth Regvrds, Ghoste | Dzscussixn 20:12, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We are not responsible nor authorized to change material on meta:. You will need to ask there. --Izno (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to expand on that a bit, the Wikimedia Foundation runs a large number of projects and wikis. The English Language Wikipedia (i.e. what you're reading now) is just one of them.  Meta-wiki is another.  There are lots more.  Each has its own rules, its own community, its own culture, etc. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:12, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , there are a lot of bad pages on Meta. For instance, until I recently overhauled it, this was their page on English Wikipedia. The advantage of doing work there is that, once it's done, you can have it marked for translation into many languages, multiplying the impact of your work. The downside is that many pages there are poorly connected to English Wikipedia, and fewer incoming links means fewer pageviews (and fewer editors, thus the poor state of many pages). Also, in some ways, Meta has a different version of the same struggle that afflicts Wikidata: it wants to be the central repository of shared resources for all Wikimedia Projects, but since English Wikipedia is so big, it often usurps that function by default, and non-English Wikipedias often turn here to source their translations rather than there.
 * Anyways, if you want to improve a major help page, I would highly suggest taking a look at WP:About, which receives more than 10,000 pageviews per day (largely thanks to being linked from the left sidebar) but which could use a major overhaul to make it much much shorter and cleaner. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 05:27, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Anyways, if you want to improve a major help page, I would highly suggest taking a look at WP:About, which receives more than 10,000 pageviews per day (largely thanks to being linked from the left sidebar) but which could use a major overhaul to make it much much shorter and cleaner. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 05:27, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

First stage of GA and FA topicon redesign has been launched
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Illustration workshop § Good article and featured article topicon redesign. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 05:29, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubric
. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. .

Today the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees starts two calls for feedback. One is about changes to the Bylaws mainly to increase the Board size from 10 to 16 members. The other one is about a trustee candidate rubric to introduce new, more effective ways to evaluate new Board candidates. The Board welcomes your comments through 26 October. For more details, check the full announcement.

Qgil-WMF (talk) 17:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Soliciting examples of compromise in policies/guidelines
What are some examples of policies or guidelines based on explicit compromises? So examples where neither "side" would be entirely happy, but which provides a workable way forward. Not looking for theoretical compromises, like how NPOV can be framed as supporting compromise. One example that comes to mind is the way WP:ENGVAR, where we say that one variation is preferred in certain cases, but otherwise comes down to "go with whatever version was there first" rather than saying one version is correct. What else, along those lines? — Rhododendrites  talk \\ 17:30, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * A classic example is WP:LONDONDERRY, which reflects strong disagreement about terminology in the offline world. Certes (talk) 17:41, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Another is WP:ERA (BC/AD or BCE/CE), which is comparable to ENGVAR. WP:CITEVAR also emphasizes "priority".  WP:LONDONDERRY is different, with no first come, first served. Maybe a better example. I've put a real classic below - this one has its own teeshirts ( in case it gets moved away.  Johnbod (talk) 03:22, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * This situation can occur wherever multiple groups share a space and use different names for it, such as Brussels naming conventions. My original example is unusual in that supporters of both titles mainly speak English.  Some non-geographic  may also make good examples, but I'm not sure which.  I suspect that Naming conventions (Latter Day Saints) may include compromises: many titles are as the LDS would wish but some use fringe theory notation.  Certes (talk) 08:59, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Rhododendrites, WP:EL allows links in certain types of list-articles (in the body, not in a proper ==External links== section), even though some people want them everywhere and others want them nowhere. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Rhododendrites, WP:EL allows links in certain types of list-articles (in the body, not in a proper ==External links== section), even though some people want them everywhere and others want them nowhere. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Additional examples welcome if people have them. :) — Rhododendrites  <sup style="font-size:80%;">talk \\ 17:44, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

If you're interested in guidance at a lower level: there used to be battles over the use of modified letters (accents and such) on ice hockey player names. In the absence of a consensus at an English Wikipedia-wide level, the ice hockey project reached a compromise where player names in articles related to North American hockey would be written without modified letters (unless the associated league generally uses them, such as Quebec leagues). The issue has largely faded out with many of the various involved parties losing interest. Note it was indeed a real compromise: the project chose an approach that people could live with, while waiting for a general consensus to one day emerge (and... still waiting on that). isaacl (talk) 22:48, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Proper use of Template:WMF-legal banned user?
Template:WMF-legal banned user is used sometimes on User pages, sometimes on User talk pages, and often on both for the same user. I'm thinking of going through Category:Wikipedians banned by the Wikimedia Foundation and fixing these so it only appears on the user page, eliminating the duplicates. Is there any reason not to do this? -- RoySmith (talk) 19:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think these should probably be placed only in the one namespace. --Izno (talk) 20:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * You could always run it by the WMF person's talk page, because otherwise they'll just do it again. This template, among other things, is employed as a means to replace the content of a page, and presumably discourage any more. I would think that redirecting one page to the other would be the obvious alternative with much the same effect. I can't say I've seen it done much recently, but this type of redirection used to be SOP at one point. I can't see anything additionally controversial about it. -- zzuuzz (talk) 20:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

 * you've done some of these (i.e. User talk:Leucosticte). Any thoughts?  -- RoySmith (talk) 20:56, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Good grief, that was in 2012. Times have changed. I suggest that it all be regularized, with talk pages redirecting to userpage, and everything except the WMF Legal banner removed. The particular page you mention was initially tagged with the Arbcom ban template; three years later, the user was WMF-banned (largely due to the work of Arbcom). I think it's entirely fine to just have the WMF Legal ban template, on the user page, with the user talk page redirecting to the user page.  I believe that's how we do these things in 2020, although I could be corrected.  Risker (talk) 21:33, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , Consensus declared. I will implement.  Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, I see a few things like User:Galaxyharrylion. Apparently, if you delete somebody's user page, the corresponding page on meta appears.  I didn't even know that was a thing.  Maybe that's what we should be doing?  -- RoySmith (talk) 00:41, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I take the view that looking through the history of a banned editors user page can sometimes be useful in identifying socks. Additionally, sometimes our local sockpuppeteer tags can help with this. -- zzuuzz (talk) 00:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Why is everyone talking in asterisks?  I guessed that "SOP" meant "standard office practice" but it appears to mean "standard operating procedure". <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 11:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If you have a user page at meta, in your case m:User:RoySmith, that is transcluded to all wikis where you haven't got a user page - whether that be because you never set one up, or because it was deleted. See e.g. sv:User:RoySmith. This has been the case since 2015/2016, more at mw:Help:Extension:GlobalUserPage. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 19:41, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that it's a bad idea to redirect a user talk: page to a user: page - the latter are not dedicated discussion pages, so what happens when somebody wants to post a message to the user concerned? I was alerted to this by, which just showed up in my watchlist; and judging by the context above, I dont see why could not simply have been removed from the user talk: page, the rest of it being left alone. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 19:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , Sigh. This is like herding cats :-)  My initial goal was to eliminate the duplicate entries in Category:Wikipedians banned by the Wikimedia Foundation due to WMF-legal banned user being used on both pages.  Beyond that, I have no particular opinion, I was just following what appeared to be the consensus. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:53, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Just noticed this discussion. I was not aware that the WMF bans users. Why is this category even needed? It has a rather ominous feel, as if the user was a criminal. Coretheapple (talk) 21:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do ban users (globally, not just from en.wp), and usually only for particularly nasty activities. I am aware of what two of these banned users did in order to attract the ban, but I shall not give details or even names. Hint: thou shalt not violate the TOU. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 22:56, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Reported death not confirmed
An editor stated that James Randi died today. I haven't seen any confirmation. Should this be removed until there is confirmation? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 21:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. WP:BDP is clear: anyone born within the past 115 years is covered by WP:BLP unless a reliable source has confirmed their death. WP:BLP, as I am sure you are aware, states that we must observe the three core content policies, one of which is WP:V. Claiming that somebody is dead when there is no reliable source to verify that claim may be seen as contentious, and WP:BLP says "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be." In other words, no source = not dead, so out it goes. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 22:45, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks, someone undid it after I asked here. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 23:11, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Content dispute resolution approaches
Last year during the expansive discussion on managing undesirable behaviour by editors, I started a brainstorming process on changing processes and procedures to encourage desired behaviour and dissuade poor behaviour. After trying to initiate discussion on suggestions from other editors, I've now written up some ideas I have on approaches to mitigate difficulties with managing mostly unmoderated online discussions in a large group across many time zones. These are not proposed as universal approaches, but offered as tools in a toolbox from which you can pick and choose as appropriate:
 * a round-robin discussion phase, to avoid a small number of voices dominating discussion and to focus participants on prioritizing ideas
 * building up pros and cons summaries of options, to provide clear progress towards understanding the options and enable interested parties to catch up quickly
 * a revisit respite, to avoid participant fatigue and provide incentive to work towards a best-compromise solution

For more details, please see my content dispute resolution toolbox page, and feel free to comment on its talk page. I know these ideas have been used at times in the past. I've tried to refine them in ways that will encourage positive, effective collaboration. As these are just suggested approaches, anyone interested can adapt them to a specific situation as desired. isaacl (talk) 20:18, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion of serial killer cases in "Category:Human rights abuses in [country]"?
I have just become aware of Category:Human rights abuses in Japan (and similar categories), in which the article North Kanto Serial Young Girl Kidnapping and Murder Case is included for some reason. I considered just removing it outright since "human rights abuses in [country]" usually refers to actions either performed by or tacitly sanctioned by the state rather than (possibly) unsolved crime sprees. But the inclusion of the Jōkyō uprising seems problematic for an entirely different reason (a farmers' uprising that was put down by a political entity that ceased to exist and was absorbed into the Empire of Japan well over a century ago, and happened long before human rights were first conceived of). So I figured that rather than just arbitrarily removing blatantly mistaken ones like the serial killer case, it would be better to ask here if the community was aware of and had sanctioned both the existence of these categories and these somewhat-strange inclusion criteria. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 04:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

ACE 2020 Electoral Commission selection
Hello, please note that Editors are invited to provide feedback on the candidates for the 2020 Arbitration Committee Electoral Commission until 23:59 October 16, 2020 (UTC) - comments and endorsements are welcome at Requests for comment/Arbitration Committee Elections December 2020/Electoral Commission. — xaosflux  Talk 17:07, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

A wikisite for consumer products
Hey guys, I read the signpost so I know paid editing is a problem. I am also on Reddit where I came across this: https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia/comments/jai5aa/starting_a_wiki_site_for_consumer_products_was/ I am not the most knowledgeable editor, nor do I know a lot about how the different wiki's are connected. But I thought this could be a potential problem, so I figured I'll shine a light on it by showing it here. The 1 comment (as of me writing this) on Reddit is by the second person involved in trying to create this. --Dutchy45 (talk) 21:30, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , There's absolutely no problem. The MediaWiki software which drives wikipedia is free for anybody to download and use for whatever purpose (including commercial) they want on their own servers.  It's not just allowed, it's encouraged.  Fire up a linux box on your favorite hosting provider, load up the MediaWiki software, and you have a working wiki in an afternoon.
 * The rules about paid editing, etc, only come into play when you try to use/abuse the running WMF projects, such as en.wikipedia.org. If you pay for your own servers, you're free to do whatever you want with the software. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:37, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Thanks for the lightning quick clarification! Dutchy45 (talk) 21:43, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Thanks for the lightning quick clarification! Dutchy45 (talk) 21:43, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

I made a website for exploring geotagged Wikipedia articles
I made a website for exploring every geotagged article from the top 15 language-specific Wikipedias: https://wikimap.wiki

I've been slowly working on this project for a while, and just recently got it to the point where it's ready to share. The data is imported monthly from the Wikipedia XML/Wikidata JSON dumps, rendered with Mapnik, and displayed using OpenLayers.

Here are a few examples of how it can be used:

- Land art

- Radiation accidents and incidents

- Individual trees in California

- "crater" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Underion (talk • contribs) 18:20, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , interesting tool; thanks for sharing! Thanks to it, Ahl al-Bayt University is no longer located in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean (according to us). {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 23:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Misleading edit summary
On this IP user's second edit, he put "fixed typo" in the edit summary. The editor did much more than fix a typo. Is there a problem with this edit? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:30, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

 * So what? Why are you bringing this here? It's a tiny change. Proof-reading it shows nothing out of the ordinary. You are a highly experienced editor. This is a brand new editor who appears to be acting in good faith and who needs encouragement and nurturing. Why didn't you welcome the editor? The standard welcoming templates have links with important information for them. Why didn't you start a conversation with them thanking them for their contributions maybe with some polite advice on writing a good edit summary? They have an account now so and I see a potential great future editor here. I'll go ahead and give them the welcome. Jason Quinn (talk) 04:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not in the habit of welcoming new editors, and it is common for vandals to leave the same, or similar, edit summary. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 04:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Please get in the habit. Expecting new editors to know too much too quickly and pushback without feedback is some of the things proven to turn new editors into former editors (see Former Contributors Survey Results). Even if the edits are not perfect, it's pretty clear these two edits are not vandalism, so bringing a slightly misleading edit summary to the Village Pump seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. The sustainability of the entire project is in doubt, with more and more work falling on fewer and fewer editors. It's just as important to try to encourage new editors as it is to write content. Jason Quinn (talk) 05:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No reason to think this is anything but a good-faith edit. However, it did introduce some problems – the edit to the first paragraph left the phrase "culture in African influences", which doesn't really make sense, and the edit to the second paragraph changed the meaning of some sentences (instead of a list of languages that the Gullah language merely has "ties" to, it is now a list of languages that are "almost identical". This may or may not be correct, but it is a change in meaning). – Teratix ₵ 04:44, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Isn't "fixed typo" one of the standard edit summaries that newbies can select from a list? -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 20:47, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * One of the perils of setting an edit summary too soon is that one can arrive at an article aiming to fix one typo, and half an hour later when you are ready to save, forget to change the edit summary from fix typo to total rewrite. If an editor does it frequently and it bothers you then I see no harm in politely raising the matter on their talkpage. But an isolated example of an edit summary that doesn't fully describe a good faith edit is not worth raising with an editor, let alone escalating to here.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  10:46, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We will have to wait I guess, but I saw the edit yesterday, or at least the first edit, and it was not a good edit, nor were the other two. They introduced bad grammar, made unexplained changes, and added unsourced information to an article that is already a problem. Eg we now have " They developed a creole language, also called Gullah." I've notified them about this discussion. Doug Weller  talk 08:50, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Distribution of biographies by date ?
I have previously read a study of the numbers of biographies in Wikipedia according to the subject's date of birth, but I have tried and failed to re-find that data. The number of biographies being heavily weighted towards living people, and within that to subjects whose notability has been established during the digital era IIRC, both simply because of editors' interests and because it is more difficult to find sources and establish notability for pre-digital-era subjects. Was there a project about this? Can you help, please? Monxton (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe ask at WP:BIOG?10:05, 18 October 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GhostInTheMachine (talk • contribs)
 * OK, I'll try there, thanks. --Monxton (talk) 13:03, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Web colour
Where can I find the web colours of the parties mentioned in this list: List of Premiers of Alberta

Best wishes! --Mbakkel2 (talk) 09:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Mbakkel2 that list uses Template:Canadian party colour/colour look at the source for the actual colour codes. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 14:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, but the templates dealing with the political parties of Alberta have been deleted and replaced by a sort of code. --Mbakkel2 (talk) 16:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know which templates you mean but looking at Template:Canadian party colour/colour it looks like they were all combined into one. Template:Canadian party colour/colour has colours defined for 8 Alberta parties. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 18:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Those don't work on Norwegian-language Wikipedia, where I'm mostly occupied. I am searching for templates like this:, in which #E51A38 indicates the web colour of the party in question. --Mbakkel2 (talk) 11:26, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question but that is a hex color code: See Web colors. You could maybe try linking across language Wikipedias using Help:Interlanguage links? Popperman99 (talk) 15:03, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Timelinesinhistory.com
Timelinesinhistory.com is a website that allows any user to submit any properly formatted textual information and present it on a timeline. Right now, we are testing the system out, allowing users to import any one of the several million Wikipedia articles. We plan on eventually allowing many different sources of information to be displayed as timelines, including any articles or books you may have written or possess. Even very complex family histories. We hope it will be useful to art historians when we add popup pictures. In a few months we plan on creating a timeline system of all of world history.

Going forward The conception of this system is 10 years old now. Which was when our first date parser from free form text was initially written. Given the complexity of this type of system we have restricted the dates that can be deduced and therefore placed on the timeline to 1000 AD to the present. We plan on doing 1 AD to 999 AD as soon as we can. We plan on doing BC dates also, which we understand will be very important for historians of antiquity. These are both very difficult technological challenges.

Special thanks to key people of the Ministry of National Education, Higher Education and Research (Ministere de l'education nationale, de l'enseignement superieur et de la recherche) in Paris, France.

Your support was important and we will continue to look forward to implementing a French, Spanish, German and Portuguese version as soon as we can.

Thanks Jeff Roehl Timelinesinhistory.com Jroehl (talk) 22:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Anyone german speaking here? (Article about Emma Coradi-Stahl)
Emma Coradi-Stahl: She died 1912, but the article says she started a buisness 1974... Can anyone german speaking see what the correct year is? (Text in german).

Thank you! // Zquid (talk) 23:44, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , looks like the correct date is 1874, I've gone ahead and fixed it. signed,Rosguill talk 00:03, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Would have been a great DYK...! Nosebagbear (talk)

Important: maintenance operation on October 27
Read this message in another language •

The Wikimedia Foundation tests the switch between its first and secondary data centers. This will make sure that Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster. To make sure everything is working, the Wikimedia Technology department needs to do a planned test. This test will show if they can reliably switch from one data centre to the other. It requires many teams to prepare for the test and to be available to fix any unexpected problems.

They will switch all traffic back to the primary data center on Tuesday, October 27 2020.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop while the switch is made. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.

 * You will not be able to edit for up to an hour on Tuesday, October 27. The test will start at 14:00 UTC (14:00 WET, 15:00 CET, 10:00 EDT, 19:30 IST, 07:00 PDT, 23:00 JST, and in New Zealand at 03:00 NZDT on Wednesday October 28).
 * If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it.  If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal.  Then you should be able to save your edit.  But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

Other effects:

 * Background jobs will be slower and some may be dropped. Red links might not be updated as quickly as normal. If you create an article that is already linked somewhere else, the link will stay red longer than usual. Some long-running scripts will have to be stopped.
 * There will be code freezes for the week of October 26, 2020. Non-essential code deployments will not happen.

This project may be postponed if necessary. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. Any changes will be announced in the schedule. There will be more notifications about this. A banner will be displayed on all wikis 30 minutes before this operation happens. Please share this information with your community. -- Trizek (WMF) (talk)  17:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Donation request messages
Hello,

I continue to receive drop-down notices telling me I use Wikipedia a lot and asking for donations.

I signed up for monthly $25 donations to Wikipedia a while ago and would like to stop receiving these pop-ups.

Please forward my request to the appropriate Wikipedia department.

Thank you,

Rwsiii (talk) 16:07, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Hi Rwsiii yes the banners can get rather annoying - especially asking for more when you already donate! Apparently you should just be able to go to Special:Preferences and tick "Suppress display of fundraiser banners". If however it's when your not logged in I'm not sure if there is a way (but there should be!). Regards KylieTastic (talk) 16:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you KylieTasticRwsiii (talk) 02:32, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

New section on Recent Changes talk page
The instructions on that page suggest posting a link at the Village Pump as that page doesn't get much traffic. So, er, here's the link: MediaWiki_talk:Recentchangestext. Matt Deres (talk) 17:27, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

NY Times op-ed
There's a really nice op-ed in today's NY Times: To Learn the Truth, Read My Wikipedia Entry on Sichuan Peppers, by Mary Mann. Per policy, I won't identify the author by wiki user, but it's easy enough to figure out :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 22:55, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Yup, that was nice. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:39, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * She linked another article, and look at what happened to its page views. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Power of the press. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:33, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Unable to find copyright for a photo
I'm a university student and as part of one of my subjects I am hoping to expand on the wikipedia article for Rolf Muuss. I am having difficulty finding a photo of him with clear any clear copyright information. I have found one photograph that was used in an article and emailed the author who told me that the photo was given to him as a handout. This photo appears in several places online and none of them give any copyright information What can I do to find out whether I can use this image? Aoujwt (talk) 01:52, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Assume it is copyrighted unless proven differently. Check out the links here for more info. The page here could probably give you more specific advice. Matt Deres (talk) 16:47, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia @ 20 - Stories of an Incomplete Revolution
It's a book. For the interested, it can be read here. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:59, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Korea
I apologise if this is the wrong forum. In December last year I made a proposal that Korean peninsula be merged to Korea. There were no objections so I performed the merge. Then this merge was reverted. In August I proposed a discussion on the merits of the merge. So far, there has been one response against (without reasons) and one for. Given that this has been going on for a year, has anyone got any suggestions for a way forward?--Jack Upland (talk) 00:05, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

mainspace pages vs. project namespace
Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone could point me to data/statistics on the number of pages in the project namespace (Wikipedia:) - I am working on a project and would like to be able to compare the amount of pages in mainspace with project namespace. Thanks Dr. Vetter (talk) 14:59, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The PAGESINNAMESPACE magic word is disabled in this wiki, so it cannot display a live count. Using a search for an invalid string in different namespaces gave me 6,182,098 pages in mainspace and 1,118,425 pages in the project namespace. BTW: There are general statistics at Special:Statistics (which says 6,182,065 mainspace pages), Statistics and an overview at stats.wikimedia.org. — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 19:56, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * There are ~1,253,885 pages in ns:4 (Project: a/k/a Wikipedia) according to this recent query on the replica: query/49448. — xaosflux  Talk 20:36, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh no. 6,182,098 vs. 6,182,065 is fine by me – the two systems will have a minor time difference. However, 1,118,425 vs. 1,253,885 is another matter. I am now doomed to fretting about the reason behind the anomaly. Any thoughts? — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 21:13, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * one was relying on the internal search engine and was was relying on replica data which can lag --- but I'd trust the replica data a bit more. Also there are more like ~8,230,049 "pages in mainspace" - the smaller number above is closer to "articles" in mainspace, which is excluding redirect pages - which are "pages" - but that is what you literally asked for, even if it isn't what you really wanted?  (The replicate count also included redirects above). —  xaosflux  Talk 01:38, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a database report for page count by namespace. Graham 87 08:20, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks . With a million other pages, no wonder I missed it. Endless options for my ToDo list! — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 12:10, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks everyone. This is excellent and will be really helpful. Dr. Vetter (talk) 23:10, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Loves - goats?
Hi all, there is a discussion open at MediaWiki talk:WikiLove.js regarding removing goats from the localized wikilove utility, any feedback would be welcome there. — xaosflux  Talk 16:49, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Local copies of files uploaded by User:Renamed user 995577823Xyn with no apparent reason
Hi. I was looking at the uploads of User:Renamed user 995577823Xyn (formerly User:We hope) and found there are a bunch of files that are definitely public domain in the US, but are marked with Keeplocal. I do not see any point in keeping the ones that are safe for Commons in two places — is there any real reason to not export all of them and delete the local copies? DemonDays64 (talk) 06:25, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The drawings seem to be by various British architects but the authorship is often uncertain. Have you checked to be sure who the artists are and whether they died more than 70 years ago? If not they are unsuitable on Commons because they will still be in UK copyright. If they were published (not just created) before 1925 they are public domain in the US and so OK here. If they have not been published with the artist's consent they are likely to be still be in copyright in the US. Thincat (talk) 17:17, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * no not those ones, which are in copyright — go forwards a page or two and there are a ton of American movie posters and stills and stuff that are definitely out of copyright, like File:Hands Up lobby card 2.jpg — either due to age or because they did not have a copyright notice. DemonDays64 (talk) 20:22, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, that one could be beneficially exported to Commons but it should not be deleted from here. The "real reason" for not deleting it here without WP:FFD is that we aim to respect community consensus. See Template talk:Keep local. Thincat (talk) 09:47, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Potential influx of attention to Toby Young
This article in The Spectator could be driving a lot of people with, shall we say, a certain political interest, to Toby Young. Young is practically begging his readers to censor his past comments about eugenics from the article. More eyes on the article over the coming days would be very helpful, to make sure the article is broadly inline with our policies and standards. (As a sidenote, the Spectator piece is very funny given that he is the most or second-most significant contributor to the Wikipedia article. Also, feel free to point me to any other appropriate noticeboards to gather more attention on the subject.) — Bilorv ( talk ) 18:10, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Who Wrote That? indicates that he's written only about 7% of the current article, and much of that was more than 10 years ago, when we operated under different rules. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:15, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Navboxes for US prez & vice prez candidates' spouses, now?
Do we really need navboxes of US presidential & vice presidential candidate's spouses? See example at Eunice Kennedy Shriver article. GoodDay (talk) 22:33, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , do you mean succession boxes? Navboxes are a different kind of navigational template. —andrybak (talk) 18:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Errr yeah. The succession boxes. GoodDay (talk) 18:55, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello
Please note that actor Faraaz Khan died on 4 november. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 12:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Faraaz_Khan has his date of birth. RudolfRed (talk) 16:26, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Moving an essay from article space to WP space
Earlier today I noticed had to fix a link in an automotive article talking about a car's pumper. The link bumper goes to a low traffic essay about running into other editors in real life. To actually find an article on bumpers like those on a car you need to search for bumper (car) (not to be confused with bumper car. There is no disambiguation page for various bumper related topics.  How do we move an essay from the name space to WP:space?  I would like to set up a disambiguation page for Bumper unless there is an obvious primary topic.  Thanks! Springee (talk) 17:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm missing something, Bumper is already a disambiguation page and the link Rodw fixed was to that disambigutation page. I'm not sure where the page about bumping into other editors is. Sam Walton (talk) 17:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You can only get to the essay by prefixing the title with WP:. Without that prefix, Bumper is an extensive dab page.  Schazjmd   (talk)  17:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That's weird. Looks like user error but I have no idea how I ended up in an essay by accident.  I was curious why Rodw changed the link so I clicked on the old bumper link.  Perhaps I accidentally double clicked.  Either way, looks like there isn't a problem here.  Thanks for the replies! Springee (talk) 18:16, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I thought, when I saw the ping, I had chosen a wrong link for the dab, but now see you found an essay by User:Fluffernutter. I'm not sure why an individual users essay (even if employed by WMF) should have the shortcuts WP:BUMPER and WP:BUMP.— Rod talk 18:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I can't remember if I originally made those redirects or if someone else did, but I have zero objection to them being put to better use. I have a vague sense that their existence might have pre-dated the norm (or maybe just my awareness of the norm?) that we don't do cross-namespace redirects to essays. At any rate, their existence definitely has nothing to do with my employment with the WMF, and that essay was written before I worked here. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 21:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contest - Round 2
. Reminder: Please help to choose the name for the new Wikimedia wiki project - the library of functions. The finalist vote starts today. The finalists for the name are: Wikicode, Wikicodex, Wikifunctions, Wikifusion, Wikilambda, Wikimedia Functions. If you would like to participate, then please learn more and vote now at Meta-wiki. --Quiddity (WMF) 22:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Suggest: Wikiwedidntwantorneed Blueboar (talk) 01:27, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fake Wikipedia article in the "real world"
What are the rules on something like this?— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  20:58, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ? what's the question? DemonDays64 (talk) 21:07, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This is probably the relevant policy:   It says "You may use the marks in satire or jokes. To avoid confusing users that your work is affiliated with the Wikimedia sites, it may be helpful to mark your work as "satire" or "parody."  If you're concerned, you can file a report there.  RudolfRed (talk) 22:10, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you asking for the opinions of individuals who are not lawyers specializing in intellectual property law? In that case I doubt whether the WMF would win a lawsuit against this cartoonist, as it doesn't look enough like a wikipedia page. Geo Swan (talk) 20:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

“Interlanguage” help desk?
Hi! Would anybody be able to point me to a place where I can ask technical questions that are not strictly related to the English-language edition? I contribute to a Wikipedia for a minority language, and we are way too small to have a help desk. My question is related to the use of subpages in the main namespace. I know this is normally discouraged, but I think we have a valid reason for it, and I'd like to discuss this with someone more experienced – especially to make sure we don't end up messing up Wikidata, etc. Thanks! Jean (t·c) 18:12, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Meta is usually the place to go for smaller wikis, but asking on en.wp at the most applicable pages or e.g. here at VPM are also reasonable. --Izno (talk) 18:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Tech is good. Wikimedia Forum is another option. Izno is also right that asking at enwp is fine as well. Killiondude (talk) 19:03, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

BAG nomination
Hi! This is a procedural notification that I've requested to join the Bot Approvals Group. Your comments would be appreciated at the nomination page. Thanks, ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:56, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

WP makes NYT crossword
New York Times crossword puzzle, 13 November. 10-across: "Wikipedia articles that need expanding". Five letters. I'm not here seeking the answer (I already know it), but just to point out that we made the NYT crossword. I've been working it four days a week for many years and this is the first time I can recall. ― Mandruss  ☎  15:39, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I assume that's the quick crossword, or do they not have a cryptic one? DuncanHill (talk) 15:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not what they call "The Mini", if that's what you're asking. It's the standard daily crossword, accessible here, but I don't know whether even that page can be accessed without a crossword subscription. ― Mandruss  ☎  15:48, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, well I can't see the crosswords, but I found this article. By the looks of it it's not a cryptic crossword, and that article suggests the NYT only has them occasionally on a Sunday. DuncanHill (talk) 15:56, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Right, it is not cryptic. ― Mandruss  ☎  15:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That’s cool! But I’m pretty sure it’s not the first time WP has appeared as a crossword clue. I think I have seen it several times. Yep, here’s one from earlier this year: Here’s one from a couple of years ago.   But those were generic; this may be the first clue that depended on a person knowing Wikipedia jargon. I see that was the Friday crossword, they are always a little tricky. I agree, it’s always fun to find something in a clue that has a particular meaning to you. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The answer, using  would be , correct?  Geo Swan (talk) 23:20, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , not that we need to hide the answer from anybody reading this page. ― Mandruss  ☎  23:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , Glad to know there's more people like me who can't make it to the end of the week. I'm a Sunday-Thursday guy. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:56, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm Thursday-Sunday. Monday-Wednesday are too easy. But I use the internet as a reference (including Wikipedia) and don't consider that cheating. In the modern age, it's not what you know, but what you know how to find out. ― Mandruss  ☎  23:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , Pardon me while I remove my foot from my mouth. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Not at all. My way is not the only correct way, it's just what works for me. ― Mandruss  ☎  00:35, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Block quotations
The formatting of block quotations seems to have changed substantially. Can anyone point me to where this was discussed? <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 05:44, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You would be looking for the unilateral change at T265947, which I caught a day or two ago. Please complain if you please. :) --Izno (talk) 06:56, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm personally leaning toward thinking this is an improvement, but I do have process concerns that the WMF has not adequately consulted the community here, so I'd support further discussion. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 19:18, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think concerns of process are really that valid for basic display of basic HTML. That's more or less the responsibility of skins. If there was a process failure here, it was assuming the guide was necessary for all display resolutions when the style was obviously made for mobile. "One style" isn't necessary and guides where shown to be defective or incorrect in motivation should be ignored. --Izno (talk) 20:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , sorry, (1) I looked at T265947, and found it opaque; (2) I don't know what a "skin" is.
 * The last time I realy looked at the templates written to support block quotations, a decade or so ago, I found chaos. I found several competing templates, which all rendered quotes slightly differently, which is probably okay, but all required slightly different usages, which I found definitely not okay.  Worse, I saw good faith contributors engaged in what looked like edit warring to me, breaking the well known principle of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
 * I don't use any of those quote templates. I don't use them for the same reason Bill Joy, author of many of the highly influential BSD Unix utilities, like the vi editor, stopped using the vi editor.  Proponents of the emacs editor used to claim this was because he finally recognized that the more complex editor was superior to his editor.
 * But there was a simpler explanation I read in an interview, circa 1985. Unix licenses required the publication of his source code, and his popular and highly customizable editor had been highly customized.  When he left Berkeley and helped found Sun Microsystems Sun worked out a barter deal with the manufacturer of high end publishing workstations.  Everyone at Sun got a high end WYSIWYG publishing workstation, so no one at Sun used either vi or emacs.
 * When he visited other labs, he found he had to avoid using vi, because he would be very likely to encounter a modified version. If even one of the commands he was used to using worked differently his demonstration would be an embarrassment.  His audience wouldn't realize he could not make his own editor do what he wanted, because of their local modifications.
 * So, when he visited other labs, and gave demonstrations, he relied on the first Unix editor, the very primitive ed editor, which was so primitive it always worked.
 * I work on multiple wikis, and I hate it when I encounter an advanced template, that has a lot of fan support, that isn't available on other wikis. There are templates that are commonly used on enwiki that either aren't available on the commons, or don't work the same way there.
 * I work on, or have worked on, almost a dozen non-WMF wikis. The alternate non-WMF wiki that I use most supports a reasonable subset of the most commonly used templates.  That same reasonable subset of the most commonly used templates can be counted on working on the Citizendium.
 * So, I stick with that reasonable subset, so I don't have to remember whether an advanced template does or doesn't work where I am now.
 * For quotations I enclose the text to be quoted in a table with a single field. That works everywhere.
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * {| class="wikitable"

Text to be quoted
 * }
 * Any of us who reach back to cut and paste a passage from an older version of an article risk trying to use a passage that relies on a template that has been deprecated, or