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Talk:VeraCrypt

Keep
Loyd. I am not an expert in any of this including what constitutes an ad. However, as a long time truecrypt user, this article has been very helpful about what to do since Trucrypt is no longer. Thus I feel it should be retained. Loydfoofoo (talk) 20:33, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I agree with Loydfoofoo. Pwolverine (talk) 09:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

The VeraCrypt entry in Wikipedia
1) The article does not read like an advertisement to me, and if I've read it correctly is not a commercial product - its not 'for sale' but it is available. Seems to me more like a straightforward & neutral communication of information.

2) It relies too heavily on primary sources? Not sure what other sources it COULD rely on... So unconvinced that this is a valid criticism.

3) Needs additional citations for verification? Frankly I'm not even sure what this means. Verified in what sense? I will say no more since I may well simply expose further my ignorance.

(but - secret private thoughts hmmm... verified... that it exists? that the information is true? that it works? that its produced by the people who claim to be responsible?)

4) Too technical? I'd describe it as admirably concise. I wouldn't claim to fully understand the information given, and am at the opposite end of the 'techno nerd computer geek' spectrum, indeed at the opposite end of the age spectrum that implies.

I have a smart phone - it took me over a month to discover how to accept an incoming call. So, NOT tec savy.

However since the Snowden revelations and with a strong interest in the Bletcheley Park story from WW2 I have tried to educate myself to some degree in this area. More explanation could be given, but it would make it a much longer article. My supposition would be that anyone wishing to understand more about the information given would follow the available links. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Problem with speed claims.
We have a quote from a reliable source that doesn't make sense. The quote is

"In technical terms, when a system partition is encrypted, TrueCrypt uses PBKDF2-RIPEMD160 with 1,000 iterations. For standard containers and other (i.e. non system) partitions, TrueCrypt uses at most 2,000 iterations.

What Idrassi did was beef up the transformation process. VeraCrypt uses 327,661 iterations of the PBKDF2-RIPEMD160 algorithm for system partitions, and for standard containers and other partitions it uses 655,331 iterations of RIPEMD160 and 500,000 iterations of SHA-2 and Whirlpool, he said.

While this makes VeraCrypt slightly slower at opening encrypted partitions, it makes the software a minimum of 10 and a maximum of about 300 times harder to brute force. "Effectively, something that might take a month to crack with TrueCrypt might take a year with VeraCrypt," Idrassi said."

Source: [ http://www.esecurityplanet.com/open-source-security/veracrypt-a-worthy-truecrypt-alternative.html ].

We use this quote in the Security improvements section.

Two problems. First, anyone who has used both knows that the speed difference is not slight. Second, how is doing 327 times more work "10 times harder"?

At [ http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2375599/veracrypt-fork-of-truecrypt-tips-up ] the same quote is used, but it is attributed as "On the VeraCrypt website, Idrassi explained". I cannot find the quote on veracrypt.codeplex.com.

I think we should drop the esecurityplanet citation and quote and instead use this one from [ https://veracrypt.codeplex.com/ ]:

"As an example, when the system partition is encrypted, TrueCrypt uses PBKDF2-RIPEMD160 with 1000 iterations whereas in VeraCrypt we use 327661. And for standard containers and other partitions, TrueCrypt uses at most 2000 iterations but VeraCrypt uses 655331 for RIPEMD160 and 500000 iterations for SHA-2 and Whirlpool.

This enhanced security adds some delay only to the opening of encrypted partitions without any performance impact to the application use phase. This is acceptable to the legitimate owner but it makes it much harder for an attacker to gain access to the encrypted data."

--Guy Macon (talk) 07:43, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

"it makes the software a minimum of 10 and a maximum of about 300 times harder to brute force" is a really weird statement.

1) PBKDF2 iterations have zero effect on brute force attacks. A brute force attack by definition will iterate over the whole keyspace, so it would be stupid to use PBKDF2 at all when you can just skip the step. The PBKDF2 iterations do increase the difficulity of password guessing though, e.g. dictionary attacks.

2) It makes it sound like the software itself will be brute forced, while in reality the software doesn't matter at all. It's all about the header data.

In light of these shortcomings I removed that part of the quote and replaced it with a simpler "While this makes VeraCrypt slower at opening encrypted partitions, it also makes password guessing based attacks slower."

- KaurKuut (talk) 00:32, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Licensing of VeraCrypt
If the license is Apache 2.0, doesn't that make VeraCrypt "Free Software", as opposed to "Source available freeware"?

Yogesh Girikumar 03:17, 10 July 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yogeshg1987 (talk • contribs)
 * VC includes TC code which is not released under a license recognized by FSF — Preceding unsigned comment added by <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 12:45, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

User:Palosirkka, five days ago, you made an edit that designated the app as "not open-source," saying that "license isn't OSI approved." Now, excuse me, but last time I checked, both OSI and FSF had approved Apache License version 2. VeraCrypt's license is also Apache License v2. Would you kindly care to explain yourself? Waysidesc (talk) 01:40, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Apache is a free software license, no disagreement there. But as described in VeraCrypt, that only covers parts of the software. The rest come with a vanity license that is not free. --Palosirkka (talk) 10:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

 * That's a rather odd conclusion. I remember reading such things from skeptics who thought TrueCrypt is ineligible for forking and derivative works. And yet, VeraCrypt is the living counterexample. They accept pull requests, so they are open-source. Example: #815. These new contributions have been placed under the Apache License v2. Here; have a look at one of their files: CoreBase.cpp.

 * "Modifications and additions to the original source code (contained in this file) and all other portions of this file are Copyright (c) 2013-2017 IDRIX and are governed by the Apache License 2.0 the full text of which is contained in the file License.txt included in VeraCrypt binary and source code distribution packages."

 * Overall, it appears VeraCrypt has no inherited the licensing flaws of TrueCrypt. Waysidesc (talk) 23:45, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Not odd at all and not my conclusion either. You do realize that forking and derivatives don't require someting to be open source? And people also do illegal things every day. Whether vera is illegal or not I do not know or care but I do know it is not open source. Some parts of it certainly are but the whole, including TrueCrypt code is not. --Palosirkka (talk) 08:21, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, did you even read the article to which you are linking? To wit:
 * It is about TrueCrypt, not VeraCrypt.
 * It predate TrueCrypt License 3.1.
 * Simon Phipps's recommended course of action is exactly what VeraCrypt has done. I quote: "As OSI director and open source expert Karl Fogel said, 'The ideal solution is not to have them remove the words 'open source' from their self-description, but rather for their software to be under an OSI-approved open source license.'"
 * Despite all of this, you have opined that it is definitely not open-source! I'm sorry, but may I see the Wikipedia policy that says your opinion is important? Waysidesc (talk) 04:41, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Veracrypt is a fork, apparently containing a large amount of Truecrypt code under Truecrypt license. As mentioned in the article, the former Truecrypt license versions were just as far from or even further away from the open source designation. Veracrypt cannot and has not changed the licensing of the Truecrypt parts... The Phipps's quote obviously meant Truecrypt has to change the license, which they have not done. This is getting borderline ridiculous. You seem to desperately want to claim this is open source even the linked article has the president of OSI telling you it is not open source! --Palosirkka (talk) 08:11, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Let me rewrite your last sentence with annotations: "You seem to desperately want to claim this [=VeraCrypt] is open source even [though] the linked article has the president of OSI telling you it [=TrueCrypt] is not open source!" Yes, indeed. Also, in the same vein, I believe Nikola Tesla invented the AC power, even though no history book says Isaac Newton did it. Nikola Tesla is not Isaac Newton, VeraCrypt is not TrueCrypt.
 * VeraCrypt has an FSF-approved, OSI-approved license (Apache License v2), has exposed its source-code, and accepts pull requests from the public. It fulfills all criteria of being both free and open-source. Title 17 of United States Code, Section 106, grants the owner of VeraCrypt copyright the exclusive rights to do or authorize reproducing it, preparing derivative works based on it, and distribute copies of it. Waysidesc (talk) 16:59, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Don't go edit the article and especially don't lie about references! Phipps said Truecrypt license IS NOT a free software license, contrary to what you wrote. And don't falsely claim in your edit summary that your edit is based on discussion because it certainly was not... But Veracrypt IS Truecrypt, because it shares code with it. And the Truecrypt license says:

 * e. You must not change the license terms of This Product in any way (adding any new terms is considered changing the license terms even if the original terms are retained), which means, e.g., that no part of This Product may be put under another license. You must keep intact all the legal notices contained in the source code files. You must include the following items with every copy of Your Product that You make and distribute: a clear and conspicuous notice stating that Your Product or portion(s) thereof is/are governed by this version of the TrueCrypt License, a verbatim copy of this version of the TrueCrypt License (as contained herein), a clear and conspicuous notice containing information about where the included copy of the License can be found, and an appropriate copyright notice.

 * So the code from Truecrypt will always be under the Truecrypt license, not open source. Hence Veracrypt cannot be open source. You do realize it's not enough if parts of a software package are open source for the whole to be open source? Any amount of code that doesn't qualify taints the whole. --Palosirkka (talk) 06:12, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 * > Don't go edit the article and especially don't lie about references! Phipps said Truecrypt license IS NOT a free software license, contrary to what you wrote.
 * Look again! I quote: "While it's accurate to describe the software as "free" ... the license is also not a free software license according to the FSF license list"
 * > And don't falsely claim in your edit summary that your edit is based on discussion because it certainly was not...
 * You mistake "based on discussion" with "based on agreement". Per your own WP:BRD policy, I can revert you without having ever discussed with you. R comes before D. Out of respect, however, I started a discussion first. But you first refused to get the point and now you are resorting to incivility. Yes, my revert is based on a discussion (even though it doesn't have to be) but not based on an agreement.
 * > But Veracrypt IS Truecrypt, because it shares code with it. And the Truecrypt license says: ...
 * And here where you are wrong and pretend not hear me. Title 17 of the United States Code, section 106, empowers TrueCrypt authors to directly authorize IDRIX to fork VeraCrypt under a different license. As far as us, the customers, are concerned, we can choose between Apache License v2 and TrueCrpyt License version 3.0.
 * Summary of my arguments so far:
 * Being open-source is not a function of the license. It is a function of accessible source code and open collaboration. VeraCrypt has both. (TrueCrypt didn't.)
 * VeraCrypt is multi-licensed. One of the options is Apache License version 2. It is an FSF-approved, OSI-approved license. Is it legal? That's not for us to decide. We have no grounds to assume bad faith in IDRIX.
 * VeraCrypt is multi-licensed. One of the options is TrueCrypt License v3. It is not the license about which Phillip Simmons spoke, That was TrueCrypt License v2. Maybe if Mr. President of OSI should have used fewer weasel words and wrote one of the flaws of the TrueCrypt license in that article.
 * - Waysidesc (talk) 08:18, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 * You look again... you wrote:  Simon Phipps]], director of the OSI, agreed that TrueCrypt license is a free software license  which is a complete and utter lie. He said it is gratis, which does not mean "free software license".
 * If you have a reference that says Truecrypt did relicense, provide it. I don't believe one exists since Veracrypt lists Truecrypt license...
 * What you say about the open source definition makes no sense at all. The OSI defines open source, not you or anybody else...
 * You completely misunderstand the multi-license. NEW PARTS OF THE SOFTWARE are apache and free. THE PARTS FROM TRUECRYPT are as non-free as ever, that's what a fork means.
 * No version of truecrypt license are OSI certified open source, so completely pointless. --Palosirkka (talk) 11:17, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * > He said it is gratis, which does not mean "free software license".
 * In the OSI guideline, all freedoms besides price are part of the open-source concept. As far as OSI is concerned, "free software" and "gratis" are the same thing. They don't recognize freeware vs. free software distinction. That's because OSD is derivation of Debian Free Software Guideline. Naturally, FSF disagrees on many definitions with OSI. Of course, you've changed the context each time it suits you, so, now you yourself are confused. You have even changed the context in your last message. (See below.)
 * > If you have a reference that says Truecrypt did relicense, provide it.
 * Open the License.txt and use your browser's search function to find this piece of text: "VeraCrypt is multi-licensed under Apache License 2.0 and"
 * > What you say about the open source definition makes no sense at all. The OSI defines open source, not you or anybody else...
 * Pro-OSI bias is against Wikipedia's policy. Per WP:NPOV, the definitions of FSF, DFSG, Microsoft (largest producer of open-source apps in the world), and every other significant entity is also important.
 * Be that as it may, per Wikipedia's WP:SYNTH policy, I'll take OSI's view into consideration if and when they spoke about VeraCrypt directly.
 * > You completely misunderstand the multi-license. NEW PARTS OF THE SOFTWARE are apache and free. THE PARTS FROM TRUECRYPT are as non-free as ever, that's what a fork means.
 * We're talking about "open-source," not "free." See? You changed the context again. Keep this charade up and soon you won't know north from south.
 * Now, according to the Title 17 of the United States Code, 'a "derivative work" is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a "derivative work".' VeraCrypt, therefore, is a derivative work. According to section 106 of this title, IDRIX has exclusive rights in this derivative work, but according to section 103, this exclusive right does not extent to per-existing material, i.e. TrueCrypt.
 * > No version of truecrypt license are OSI certified open source, so completely pointless.
 * I'm glad you finally agreed on this. So, am I to assume every argument you've made based on OSI's approval is now null and void? Let me guess: Your answer is no. You're going to say something that amounts to "OSI is the king of the world and if the king doesn't approve, you cannot exist."
 * I'm glad you finally agreed on this. So, am I to assume every argument you've made based on OSI's approval is now null and void? Let me guess: Your answer is no. You're going to say something that amounts to "OSI is the king of the world and if the king doesn't approve, you cannot exist."

 * Somehow, you seem to think VeraCrypt went through the trouble of changing its licensing intending not to make a difference. Waysidesc (talk) 13:13, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Skipping your undeeded insults, weird POV and general crazytalk, how exactly is USC relevant here? --Palosirkka (talk) 07:29, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * LOL. 😂 USC 17 is the Copyright law of the United States. It is the sole law that makes licenses meaningful. Waysidesc (talk) 09:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * And VeraCrypt is French. --Palosirkka (talk) 09:41, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * The TrueCrypt Foundation is a registered US non-profit organization last filed tax returns in 2010. TrueCrypt was under the protection of the U.S. copyright laws. Did you forget all of your TrueCrypt-based fallacies all of a sudden? Waysidesc (talk) 11:15, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * We're not talking TrueCrypt but VeraCrypt which is developed by a French entity. Leave the silly attacks aside, please. --Palosirkka (talk) 12:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Thank you. I agree. Dispute resolved. Waysidesc (talk) 17:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * No, not resolved. So you don't know how VeraCrypt could relicense TrueCrypt code? I still believe they could not. It's OK for you not to know how. Just don't claim to know if you don't. The United States law you proposed earlier doesn't apply in France. Maybe they have a similar clause in French law on derivatives. Maybe not. In case they do it will certainly, just like US law, also note that "protection for a work employing preexisting material in which copyright subsists does not extend to any part of the work in which such material has been used unlawfully" (17 U.S. Code § 103). Unlawfully here being relicensing code originally under a license, like the TrueCrypt license, that states "no part of This Product may be put under another license". As you see, by relicensing, they are in breach of the TrueCrypt license and so infringing TrueCrypt authors' copyright. Which is unlawful. They legally cannot relicense.

 * There is another TrueCrypt fork, Ciphershed. They wrote in 2015 that they wanted to "transition to an OSI-approved license" but it "involves replacing the code almost entirely". Also, if one looks at their current license, they state very clearly that the new code and old code are under different licenses. --Palosirkka (talk) 22:29, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No, kid. I'm doing playing your word games. I don't even want read what you write anymore. Waysidesc (talk) 12:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ciphershed is dead. The last CipherShed release was <IP_ADDRESS> (February 1, 2016). The last post to the CipherShed Forum was in 2016. Also see Project Dead? and Giving Up on CipherShed 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:B858:3590:F10E:CA10 (talk) 22:47, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

If references are there stating that parts of the software are covered under a vanity license which is chargeable then the issue of free is settled (it is partly free) Then issue is whether it is open source. Does it fail any criteria here ? - Abdul Muhsy  talk  18:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * We're talking free software here, nothing to do with price. I guess the discussion at this hour boils down to whether VeraCrypt can take TrueCrypt code and relicense it under Apache. --Palosirkka (talk) 07:31, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The answer is yes. Title 17 of the United States Code, section 106 enables this transition. But we've already talked about this. Waysidesc (talk) 09:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @Abdul Muhsy: No. It doesn't. VeraCrypt binaries are now under the Apache License v2, which fulfills all OSD requirements. But you might be asking: What's the point of including the TrueCrypt license? It is simple, really. In the United States, the copyright law is called "Title 17 of the United States Code" or USC 17. This title defines VeraCrypt as a derivative work. In accordance to section 103 of this title (USC 17 § 103) the protection of Apache License v2 does not retrospectively extend back to TrueCrypt. In other words, the old TrueCrypt is still bound by its own license, even if you somehow download its code from the VeraCrypt repo and reconstitute it. Waysidesc (talk) 09:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * OSD requirements have nothing to do with binaries... --Palosirkka (talk) 09:42, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does. I quote: "The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form." Waysidesc (talk) 11:15, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If it passes all the criteria it should be classified as open source. Our article on open source cites this criteria in its second sentence. May I suggest adding the sentence 'VeraCrypt is open source as per the criteria listed by opensource.org'.  - Abdul Muhsy   talk  13:31, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

It appears the dispute has finally resolved itself. You can find the essence of disagreement in revision<PHONE_NUMBER>, where User:Palosirkka shouted "Veracrypt IS Truecrypt" (sic). That has changed a recently, in revision<PHONE_NUMBER>, where he finally conceded that "We're not talking TrueCrypt but VeraCrypt," finally taking back his original statement.

Waysidesc (talk) 17:26, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * The dispute is still very much unresolved. My original statement was VeraCrypt is not free and open source software. You certainly have not convinced me otherwise. --Palosirkka (talk) 22:29, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree that no consensus has been achieved. Your opinion is valuable, but similarly other people's opinions are valuable as well. Article need not be edited in a hurry. Let's wait for some time. I feel it is open source, others may disagree. We need to value everyone's opinion. - Abdul Muhsy   talk  03:13, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Section break
The thing to do ought to be, at this juncture, not to argue the case anymore because that is simply not productive. Instead one can cite reliable sources in support of their stance and let consensus develop slowly. For example, this calls veracrypt opensource. Hence it may be deemed opensource- - Abdul Muhsy  talk  04:13, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Who died and made the FSF and OSI king, able to issue imperial decrees as to exactly what is and is not free and open source? That's not how Wikipedia works. We report what reliable sources say, which is that VeraCrypt is FOSS.

 * All we can say is that the OSI does not consider TrueCrypt license 3.0 to be FOSS and has not evaluated the updated TrueCrypt License v 3.1.
 * We also need to acknowledge that Computerworld, PC World, opensource.com, fossmint, Virginia Tech, ProPrivacy, Privacy Autralia, ghacks, Linuxhint, makeuseof, and Medium all consider VeraCrypt to be FOSS.

 * The fact that reliable sources call it FOSS trumps any WP:OR we might do, but the OR is wrong as well. The reason why the OSI doesn't like TrueCrypt License v 3.1 is that it puts conditions on using the software that OSI-approved licenses don't have. TrueCrypt License v 3.1., which has never been evaluated by OSI removed some but not all of those conditions.

 * But the reality is that TrueCrypt is abandonware, and nobody is enforcing any conditions on anyone, even if in theory they might be able to. See The Fall of TrueCrypt and Rise of VeraCrypt, What Happened to TrueCrypt and What Do I Use Instead?, TrueCrypt Review 2021: What Happened to It and Its Best Alternative, TrueCrypt quits? Inexplicable, and TrueCrypt discontinued, is no longer secure The OSI is not well-equipped to handle edge cases like someone abandoning a project, presumably at gunpoint by a government agency, and someone else forking it under an OSI-approved license with zero effort to enforce the abandoned license. But again the fact that the OR is wrong doesn't matter. We go with what reliable sources say, not our own original research. 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:4CE6:2E2D:F31B:1F0D (talk) 18:25, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could say something along the lines: "VeraCrypt presents itself as free and open source software. However, code under the TrueCrypt license is not recognized as such by the FSF and OSI". Or maybe we could put this explanation in a footnote. -  (talk)  00:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

I think Daveout's suggestion is good. Give all the information, and let the reader interpret it in whichever way he/she wants.- - Abdul Muhsy  talk  03:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Clear violation of WP:NPOV. Better: "VeraCrypt is considered free and open source software by most sources, including Opensource.com, Makeuseof, Fossmint, Linuxhint, Computerworld, PC World, and Medium. The FSF and OSI only accept those portions of the code that are released are under the Apache license as free and open source software but not those portions of the code that are released under the TrueCrypt license.

 * As long as the vast majority of reliable sources call VeraCrypt FOSS, the view that it isn't FOSS is clearly a WP:FRINGE view and should be handled as such. 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:D5E3:C366:65D2:EDCE (talk) 05:00, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * There is a problem with the suggestion of my esteemed colleagues, @Abdul Muhsy and @Daveout: It is bludgeoning the process. Wikipedia has articles on millions of apps. There is a process for deciding whether they are free software. There is another for deciding whether they are open-source. We can at least try following that process before we start making compromises.
 * To decide whether an app is free: We look at the app's license agreement. Here is a copy of license agreement that comes with VeraCrypt: For the sake of reference, I quote the top sentence of the agreement:
 * "VeraCrypt is multi-licensed under Apache License 2.0 and the TrueCrypt License version 3.0, a verbatim copy of both licenses can be found below."
 * So, what does it mean? Does it mean we are bound to Apache License, TrueCrypt License, the most liberal terms afforded by a combination of both, or the most restrictive terms afforded by a combination of both?
 * Legal aspect: The law has provisions for such situations. The principle of the law is: In the case of ambiguity in a contract, the party that didn't draft it benefits. If it is ambiguous as to which one to pick, you can legally pick the permissive Apache License v2 and exclude the other.
 * Precedent: Wikipedia itself multi-licenses contents under GFDL and CC BY-SA 3.0 License. We can pick either. FFmpeg has a similar practice, multi-licensing itself as GPL, LGPL, and non-free. (Surely, nobody claims that FFmpeg is closed-source because there is a non-free license in its scheme.) x265 is also free and open-source despite being multi-licensed.
 * In general, multi-licensing means "pick whichever suits you." So, anyone is free to pick Apache License v2, and yes, this make VeraCrypt free software.
 * Question: Is IDRIX, the developer of VeraCrypt, allowed to change the license to Apache License v2, as they did version 1.19?
 * There is a legal way for them to do it. I have explained it earlier but it doesn't matter here. Unless a court strikes down the new license, it remains in force all the same. Personal suspicions have no weight.
 * To decide whether an app is open-source: Open-source software needs open collaboration, in addition to an appropriate license. IDRIX must accept pull requests for VeraCrypt to be entitled for open-source designation. They do. I have provided evidence in the article. Waysidesc (talk) 09:36, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "There is a process for deciding whether they are free software. There is another for deciding whether they are open-source. We can at least try following that process before we start making compromises." If there is such a process on wikipedia then it ought to be followed. But I am not aware of this wikipedia guideline of looking at the license, can you please provide a link to it. Also, if multiple sources are deeming it open source then as IMO we ought to do so too. But adding the bit about FSF, OSI only adds information to the article. To avoid confusing the reader, it may not be put in the lead though- - Abdul Muhsy  talk  18:09, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * > "But adding the bit about FSF, OSI only adds information to the article.
 * Thanks for attempting to come up with compromises. Yet, the compromises that you are offering have already been made. The bit about FSF and OSI is already smack-dab in the middle of the article. I put it there. And yet the dispute didn't go away. We cannot ignore the fact that one of the dispute parties believed (erroneously) that VeraCrypt's change of license in version 1.19 was effectively null.
 * Before challenging the allegation that "VeraCrypt is not open-source," we should ask, "who made that allegation in the first place?" An editor did, in violation of WP:SYNTH. OSI has never addressed VeraCrypt.
 * > "If there is such a process on wikipedia"
 * With respect, I never said "on Wikipedia." The process you are looking for is called the contract law. FYI, the majority of processes that we use in Wikipedia are not in WP: pages. For example, we respect the English irregular verbs. You can find them in a grammar book. In the File: namespace, we try our best to uphold copyrights laws. If you're looking for the processes that are "on Wikipedia," the comments of the esteemed 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:D5E3:C366:65D2:EDCE highlight those adequately. Waysidesc (talk) 19:16, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Friendly reminder that original research is not permitted, so what do sources say? Stop trying to read the licenses, stop giving opinion on the software. Do provide Reliable Sources. And start an RfC since a wider audience would be useful.Slywriter (talk) 22:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * > Stop trying to read the licenses
 * A license is a source. And the only people who say "don't read that source" members of a communist party who want to hide and censor things. Waysidesc (talk) 05:12, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point. You're free to read whatever the fuck you want. However you cannot use use original research to make claims on wikipedia. There's no ifs or buts about it. If you don't agree with that, then sorry but Wikipedia isn't the place for you. You can talk whatever you want about communism etc but if you want to edit here, you need to abide by our policies and guidelines and WP:NOR is a fundamental one. Nil Einne (talk) 11:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Comment. I haven't fully read the OSI and the FSF objections to the TrueCrypt license yet, but I imagine they're taking issue with minor things. Most people will probably agree that VeraCrypt is FOSS. However, it isn't up to us to decide what is and what isn't FOSS. We just reproduce what relevant sources say.
 * IDRIX says that VeraCrypt is FOSS (without caveats) and most of the specialized media doesn't take issue with that. The FSF and the OSI say that parts of the code isn't FOSS. You may disagree with them, but you must admit that the opinions of those two organizations on this particular matter carry a lot of weight. (most people are interested on what they have to say). A footnote in the first sentence mentioning their view is probably the best way to go. -   (talk)  06:24, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

 * OSI never actually determined that Veracrypt wasn't FOSS. Per our aricle; "Discussion of the licensing terms on the Open Source Initiative (OSI)'s license-discuss mailing list in October 2013 suggests that the TrueCrypt License has made progress towards compliance with the Open Source Definition but would not yet pass if proposed for certification as Open Source software". It wasn't OSI. It was individuals on the OSI mailing list. It wasn't decided. It was suggested.
 * The FSF has unambiguously determined that Veracrypt is not FOSS. In my opinion FSF carries far less weight than OSI since the GPLv3 fiasco; (For years the FSF encouraged a "GPLv2 or any later version" license and then added a bunch of objectionable things to GPLv3. See Linus Torvalds says GPL v3 violates everything that GPLv2 stood for. 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:C43A:7A9A:3A68:225A (talk) 07:25, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @Daveout
 * > "The FSF and the OSI say that parts of the code isn't FOSS."
 * Do they? Can I see your source for the FSF part, please? Waysidesc (talk) 08:01, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I was transcribing what I had read at TrueCrypt. But now that I'm looking closer at it, the information is indeed inaccurate. The statement was apparently made by the FSF founder, not by the FSF proper. See. -   (talk)  08:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#Truecrypt-3.0 (which also says "This page is maintained by the Free Software Foundation's Licensing and Compliance Lab") covers the Truecrypt license. 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:C43A:7A9A:3A68:225A (talk) 08:42, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you both. Another matter: Can we please move the general discussions off the RfC area? Our RfC would be cleaner this way. Waysidesc (talk) 08:48, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

RfC on whether VeraCrypt is free software
What is the licensing status of VeraCrypt? Chess (talk) (please use  on reply) 03:05, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Neutral. I'm here because of this ANI thread where someone requested help and an RfC is the best way to break this logjam and prevent another edit war. I won't state an opinion here though for full disclosure I'll note that I am a VeraCrypt user (having switched from TrueCrypt). Chess (talk) (please use  on reply) 03:05, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Free and open-source, Apache License v2. See:
 * Computerworld
 * PC World
 * opensource.com
 * fossmint
 * Virginia Tech
 * ProPrivacy
 * Privacy Autralia
 * ghacks
 * Linuxhint
 * makeuseof
 * Medium
 * Also see the software license.
 * Waysidesc (talk) 05:33, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Free and Open Source, as per the vast majority of sources.
 * Sourceforge
 * Fosshub
 * Techspot
 * DuckDuckGo's Open Source Technology Improvement Fund:
 * Tuxmachines
 * Open Tech Fund
 * Howtogeek
 * Enterprise networking planet
 * Linux Uprising
 * Restore Privacy
 * Security in a box
 * Saashub
 * Dataoverhaulers
 * 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:C43A:7A9A:3A68:225A (talk) 07:25, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Not open source, nor free software. As a fork of TrueCrypt, some code is under the TrueCrypt license which is not OSI  or FSF  free. --Palosirkka (talk) 17:41, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Free and Open Source There are 24(though at least one is a dupe on different platforms) sources listed above that use the terminology. The argument against using the label is not persuasive. OSI is a self-appointed authority and Wikipedia is not compelled to follow their labeling guidelines.Slywriter (talk) 18:35, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, the link Palosirkka gave above does not show that OSI has determined that Veracrypt is not FOSS. The link is to an editorial opinion in InfoWorld by the president of the Open Source Initiative speaking for himself about another product; Truecrypt. The only thing the actual OSI did was discuss the TrueCrypt License on their mailing list without making an official determination. It is Original research to interpret a 2013 editorial by an individual and a mailing list thread about a previous product that was published under the Truecrypt license and apply that original research to a different product in a different country released under a different license. The sources that discuss Veracrypt (not TrueCrypt) are near unanimous in calling it FOSS. 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:8981:FEBD:4662:A3B0 (talk) 01:17, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Free and Open Source as per multiple sources cited above- - Abdul Muhsy  talk  11:46, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Remove FOSS and explain the nuances of the project's license model. For me, it is a compromise between "free" and "not-free". CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 14:14, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

It looks like we have four for free and open source, one for not open source, nor free, one for remove FOSS and explain the nuances of the project's license model, and one neutral. So per WP:SNOW, the result of this RfC is Free and Open Source in the lead paragraph, Free and Open Source followed by links to the two licenses in the infobox, explain the nuances of the project's license model -- attributing who says it is FOSS and who says it isn't -- in the License and source model section. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 03:59, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Confusing info in the "Physical Security" section and the "Trusted Platform Module" section
Perhaps the information from VeraCrypt is confusing and so it's not the fault of this article, but note that in the "Physical Security" section it's stated that if possession of the computer is lost, an attacker can install a keylogger and compromise the security that way. Ok, fine, but then in the TPM section the same thing is stated and "for that reason TPM will never be supported." Well, that's dumb, but perhaps the conflict here - "we'll support our software, which may be compromised by a certain attack, but we won't support TPM, which may be compromised by the same attack" - could be explained or, if one of these sections has inaccurate info, it could be corrected. I'm reading this and thinking "WTH - are the VeraCrypt developers idiots or is this article somehow in error?" GTGeek88 (talk) 15:48, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

 * That section needs to be rewritten. See WP:SOFIXIT.

 * The main problem is the phrase "such as a hardware keystroke logger" which misses the point of the previous sentence; "if the attacker has physical or administrative access to a computer".

 * Nothing can save you if you are facing a sophisticated and well-funded attacker (examples: You are Edward Snowden, your computer has military secrets, you have financial info worth billions, or you are the new leader of ISIS) and the attacker has physical access. The attacker can switch your computer with an identical-looking one that looks and acts exactly the same to your eyes.

 * Most of us are facing threats from attackers who are not willing to break into your room and switch your computer while you sleep. Compromising your PC over the Internet and gaining administrator access is far more likely for most people. As the FAQ says:

 * "If the attacker has administrator privileges, he can, for example, reset the TPM, capture the content of RAM (containing master keys) or content of files stored on mounted VeraCrypt volumes (decrypted on the fly), which can then be sent to the attacker over the Internet or saved to an unencrypted local drive (from which the attacker might be able to read it later, when he gains physical access to the computer)... The only thing that TPM is almost guaranteed to provide is a false sense of security (even the name itself, "Trusted Platform Module", is misleading and creates a false sense of security). As for real security, TPM is actually redundant (and implementing redundant features is usually a way to create so-called bloatware)."

 * So the paragraph should be rewritten to make it clear that VeraCrypt is secure against someone with administrator rights but not against someone with physical access, and TPM is not secure in either of those two cases.

 * 13:23, 29 January 2022 (UTC)2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:69AC:5512:473D:30FA (talk)

I tried to modify the TPM section to address this issue. I covered both angles: VeraCrypt's angle and the opposition's angle.

Quite frankly, I did expect some VeraCrypt fan or representative to revert or subvert my edit in a way that looks totally pro-VeraCrypt. It appears our lucky contender is User:Peterl. Peterl entirely removed the opposition's view point and wrote: "Others disagree with this" as if those others are trolls and their opinion is not worth considering. It goes without saying that censoring the valid views of the others is a violation of WP:NPOV that says:

"All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic."

Let's take a look at a couple of highly controversial things that Peterl has wrote in his edit summary:
 * "This is not the place to discuss the purpose or intent of TPM." Funny, because I did the opposite of discussing the intent of TPM and wrote "See 'Trusted Platform Module § Uses' for details."
 * "The discussion over whether that's true or not belongs on the TPM page." WP:NPOV says it belongs to this page exactly. "Not going off topic" is the Internet's general excuse for censoring relevant contents.
 * "The refs left don't adequately cover that 'others disagree with this'." This phrase appears in Peterl's edit, not mine! In fact, my edit states that others partially agree with TrueCrypt devs.

Waysidesc (talk) 01:44, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Please avoid attacking or being condescending to the editor, or any editor. It's not helpful and it's not constructive.
 * So, let's look at the issues at hand:
 * 1. "VeraCrypt does not take advantage of Trusted Platform Module (TPM)." - stated fact
 * 2. "VeraCrypt FAQ repeats the negative opinion of the original TrueCrypt developers verbatim." - stated fact
 * 3. VeraCrypt developers "claim that TPM is entirely redundant" - stated in their doc.
 * Is TPM redundant? Can it be broken? Is it broken? That's a completely different question. All we have here is the VC devs claim. TPM is used in/by thousands of programs. The VeraCrypt page is not the place to discuss whether TPM is good, redundant, reliable or not; the TPM page is. Are there other developers that think TPM is redundant? Some of those links suggest that, others are glowing about TPM. They belong on the TPM page.
 * I see that these refs and most of that text has come from the Trusted Platform Module page. It's redundant to have such duplication, because wiki pages for other programs that avoid or have a position against TPM would also need this discussion. I've marked this section
 * Regarding WP:NPOV: The only fact we can state here is that VC doesn't use TPM, and the VC Devs have their reasons and don't like it. There's nothing debateable or un-NPOV in that. The viewpoints on whether they are right or not belongs on the TPM page.
 * peterl (talk) 06:11, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm disinclined to dance around the subject. You made an edit. What was your concern?
 * I think eliminating the perceived duplication was your concern, even though you tried not to show it in your original edit. I also think you first decided to remove the so-called "duplicate" content, then looked for justification after the fact. Rest assured, however, that your concern is null and void.
 * Two pages are are in favor this amount of "duplicate" contents:
 * 1. WP:NPOV: If a little repetition is what it takes to ensure "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic," then so be it. The dismissive way in which you wrote "others disagree" and proceeded to bunch up a few references that don't say such a thing was anything but fair. I could conceive that the next reviewer would remove the statement along with its sources, bitterly condemning me to be hypocrite, even though I was not the one responsible for this misrepresentation.
 * 2. WP:CFORK: "Articles on distinct but related topics may well contain a significant amount of information in common with one another. This does not make either of the two articles a content fork. As an example, clearly Joséphine de Beauharnais will contain a significant amount of information also in Napoleon I of France; this does not make it a fork."
 * There is a third page that also advocates some content duplication, but it is not directly appropriate for this discussion. It is WP:LEAD. It says the lead section must consist of duplicate into exclusively. Still, I mention it to help you let go of the desire to delete "duplicate" contents. Waysidesc (talk) 05:36, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Rookie mistake: revealing your bias in an edit summary then later trying to find a Wikipedia policy that justifies the change.
 * Waysidesc's edits were correct and this edit by Peterl violates NPOV.
 * Virtually nobody outside of some obsolete material from the early days of TPM and some marketing material from TPM vendors claims that TPM (or veracrypt for that matter) can protect a computer from an Evil Maid attack by a sophisticated opponent. See:
 * A Bad Dream: Subverting Trusted Platform Module While You Are Sleeping
 * Trusted platform module security defeated in 30 minutes, no soldering required
 * Researchers break into BitLocker... the technique works even when a Trusted Platform Module is in use
 * Trusted Platform Module
 * Note that some of the above attacks only work on older TPM implementations. So of course we are 100% sure that no future attack can possibly work on the TPMs they are shipping now...
 * --<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 11:10, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

The article is still misleading. It says "TPM can, however, stop the cold boot attack described above." So can Veracrypt, but the option is off by default because protecting against a cold boot attack is worthless. A cold boot attack requires physical access. TPM does not protect against an attacker with physical access. Veracrypt does not protect against an attacker with physical access. Protecting against just one technique that requires physical access is like putting a high security deadbolt lock on a cardboard shoebox. 2600:1700:D0A0:21B0:8981:FEBD:4662:A3B0 (talk) 01:43, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

WP:RSN Discussion of a source cited in this article
is here FYI. -- Yae4 (talk) 18:37, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Discontinued
Apparently, december 2023 (23 for that matter), the website .fr is dead. Is it discontinued ? Various versions of the setup file are still available for install. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 10:34, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * https://veracrypt.fr/ works just fine for me. Here is a website that you can use the next time you thing a website has been discontinued: https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 02:32, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:VeraCrypt


text:
Talk:Arthur Henderson Hall

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source: wikimedia

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Arthur Henderson Hall


text:
Willi Titze

Willi Titze (19 February 1890 – 30 August 1979) was a German painter. His work was part of the painting event in the art competition at the 1936 Summer Olympics.

title: Willi Titze


text:
Amplifier

This learning project is about electronic amplifiers such as those used with an electric guitar.

Principles
An amplifier uses a small weak electronic signal and a power supply to produce a larger strong signal. This task can be done the new way using solid-state devices usually called transistors or an older way using electron tubes, also called valves. Amplification can also be done in an even older way mechanically using a horn of some type as in the Victrola and similar devices. The principles of amplification are ancient as in the medical stethescope and who knows how far back?

 * Wikipedia: An electronic amplifier is a device for increasing the power of a signal.

Types and kinds
All amplification methods have common aspects most of which are expressed as ratios:
 * Gain - the ratio between input and output energy
 * Signal to Noise - Generally, the ratio between harmonic content that is desireable to that which is undesirable
 * Efficiency - An amalgamation of factors used to measure energy that is used productively or dissipated as heat or other incidental loss
 * Frequency response - A measure of an amplifier's ability to respond to various types of periodic change.
 * ...several others

Electronic amplification can happen over a wide band of frequencies and physical conditions ranging from audible sound to electromagnetic radiation. The design parameters and objectives of an amplifier circuit are methodically built to a variety of types and kinds. For this discussion, we shall begin with an elementary examination of the Audio Amplifier.

 * Point to ponder: Can visible and invisible light be amplified? Some might argue that anything that can be modulated, can be amplified. spoil

Sound transducers
A sonic signal enters and exits an amplifier by means of a sound transducer. Input devices such as microphones, magnetic pickups and piezo-electric devices faithfully translate sound, mechanical vibration or other type of audible energy into variable electrical energy that can enter the input stage or circuit. Output devices for converting amplified electrical energy back into sound are most commonly called loudspeakers.

Electron tubes
The first electronic amplifiers used evacuated glass tubes containing four basic types of conducting members:
 * 1) filament - also called heaters, these innermost elements usually composed of tungsten, emmited energy in the form of heat producing the orange glow seen from behind a vintage guitar amplifier.
 * 2) cathode - this electrode connected directly or through a resister to the negative side of a DC Power source supplies a stream of electrons knocked off of it by the heat from the filament toward an outermost electrode called the...
 * 3) plate - this electrode is connected to the positive side of the power supply through a resistive or inductive load componant used to develop the amplified power of the tube (valve).
 * 4) grid - One or more screen-like elements are placed between the cathode and plate and present to the tube an input signal that represents a varying voltage that is biased somewhere between the negative potential of the cathode and the positive postential of the plate.

The kinetic energy allowed to flow between the cathode and the plate varies indirectly but at the same rate as the potential energy on the grid. To understand the operation of an amplifier tube, one should thing in terms of voltage with repect to ground. In most classic tube designes, the negative side of the power supply was connected with the chassis of the aparatus which was in turn connected (for best results) to Earth ground. Earth ground is nearly always at a 0-volt potential, unless of course a lightning strike or other anomoly is nearby.

under construction

title: Amplifier


text:
Macroeconomics/Expanded Multipliers

=Expanded Multipliers=
 * The simple k assumes no government or overseas (o/s) sectors in the economy. In reality Y will be subject to taxation, imports and savings before it will be spent in the domestic economy. Thus various complex multipliers incorporates these flows and is a smaller coefficient than [k = 1/MPS].

The Multiplier

 * The operation of the multiplier is essentially the same but consumption is reduced by acknowledging the other leakages in the economy.
 * This multiplier is applicable to all direct spending in the economy, including government spending.

Taxes/Transfers Multiplier

 * This multiplier is applicable to all indirect injections into the economy, such as cutting taxes or increasing government transfers. The multiplier is positive because it implies a positive change, or increase, in the input. (taxes).

Balanced Budget Multiplier

 * This multiplier is used when the government increases spending and uses a tax increase to pay for the spending. To model change in expenditure when the government decreases spending and cuts taxes to cover the costs, multiply by a negative input in expenditure.

title: Macroeconomics/Expanded Multipliers


text:
User:Abrar Fahim Rafi/sandbox

Abrar Fahim Rafi

Abrar Fahim Rafi is a medical student and chronic science worker .. Being a member of science he maintains a science website .. He also maintains a Facebook page with the same name - " Unfold the Unknown ". Abrar Fahim Rafi is associated with plenty other science related websites and pages over the web ..

Abrar Fahim completed his school and college life in his home district Rajshahi, In Bangladesh .. He is now studying in a Medical college in the district of Rangpur .. Being a medical student he also cherishes great interest for Astronomy, Physics, Math and other branches of science ..

He holds a YouTube channel named as - "Abrar Fahim Rafi" .. There he beholds his other activities like dancing, acting , singing , writing and others ..

title: User:Abrar Fahim Rafi/sandbox


text:
Cookbook:Maple Syrup

| Basic foodstuffs | Sweeteners

Maple syrup is a sweet condiment made from the sap of maple trees, common in North American cuisines. It is most often eaten with pancakes, waffles, or French toast. Maple syrup is also commonly used on hot breakfast cereals including oatmeal, cream of wheat, and grits. Sometimes maple syrup is used as an ingredient in baking or in preparing desserts.

Most "maple-flavored" syrups on the market today in the United States are imitation maple syrups, usually with little (for advertising purposes) or no real maple content. They are usually thickened far beyond the viscosity of real maple syrup, as well. Real maple syrup is universally considered superior, although it is more expensive.

Production
Real maple syrup comes from Canada or northern United States, especially New England (states in the northeast corner of the US) and New York. Most maple trees can be used as a source of sap, but the sugar maple (Acer saccharum) and black maple (A. nigrum) are the most favored, with professionals preferring the black over the sugar. A maple syrup production farm is called a sugarbush or a sugarwoods. Sap is boiled in a "sugar shanty", "sugar shack", or "sugarhouse," which has only has partial side walls, being louvered at the top to vent moisture-laden air.

The province of Quebec in Canada is by far the world's largest producer of maple syrup, producing 15600000 l in 2001 - about four times as much as all U.S. production combined.

In Quebec, the process has become part of the culture, and city people often go to cabanes à sucre in early spring, where lavish meals are served with maple syrup accompaniments. Tire sur la neige is a seasonal treat of thick hot syrup poured onto fresh snow then eaten off sticks as it quickly cools. Owing to its economic importance, the maple tree is an emblem of Canada, and its leaf is depicted on its flag.

As for American production, in 2001, Vermont produced 1040000 l of real maple syrup, about a quarter of the U.S. production. Maine and New York state, with about 19 percent each, were next in line.

Production is concentrated in February. It takes approximately forty parts sap to make one part maple syrup. A very small amount of fat (usually with a pat of butter) is added during the reduction process to reduce the tendency of the boiling sap to froth up.

The earliest runs are the best quality. The best "sugaring" weather is clear, with days above freezing and nights below freezing, also with snow on the ground. Syrup made late in the season, when there are no longer nighttime freezes, is dark, and the flavor is said to be buddy, which decreases its value. The whole process must be done as quickly as possible. Too much time in storage can induce fermentation in the sap, and too much time boiling can also reduce quality. Usually the whole process from any batch of sap finishes in syrup within just a few hours.

Maple syrup is sometimes boiled down further to make maple sugar, usually sold in pressed blocks, and translucent candy.

Recipes
Category:Maple Syrup recipes

title: Cookbook:Maple Syrup


text:
Scene from Faust

Scene from Faust (usually understood as Goethe's Faust) may refer to:

 * Scene from Faust (Pushkin) (Russian: Сцена из Фауста) — work of Alexander Pushkin
 * Scene from Faust (Schubert) (German: Szene aus ‘Faust’) — composition by Franz Schubert
 * Scenes from Goethe's Faust (German: Szenen aus Goethes Faust) – composition by Robert Schumann

title: Scene from Faust


text:
Chinese (Mandarin)/Contributors

=Contributors=

The Chinese Wikibook was started 2003 December 13. Below is a list of users who have contributed greatly to the authoring of this Wikibook. Please add your username if you have made substantial additions and/or revisions to this textbook. Use  *  to add a name.

M4RC0, Yug and Wikic all made substantial contributions to the Chinese stroke order project on Wikicommons, which are used in our lessons. Peter Isotalo, also of Wikicommons, contributed the first audio samples used in this Wikibook.

In addition, the authors would like to thank the development team in relation with the Wikimedia Foundation and its affiliates, without whom our text could not be so accessible.

title: Chinese (Mandarin)/Contributors


text:
World History/A New Millennium

America stands alone
Following the fall of the Communist Bloc in 1989 and the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1992, the United States remained as the sole global superpower.

Democracy
After the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe, and then in the Soviet Union, many people in the West and in the former communist countries hoped that a new era of democracy would emerge. However, at the beginning of the 21st Century, a number of events and developments quelled this euphoria.

First, the increasing authoritarianism in countries like Russia. Since the movement was only in the opposite direction for some time, this came as a surprise to the West. Most of the former communist countries, especially the western ones, have become free countries with a democratic form of government, according to the American watchdog of liberty, Freedom House. However, Russia made an authoritarian turn with the election of prime minister Vladimir V. Putin. As president, Putin has reasserted the authority of the state over parts of the economy and has been accused of suppressing free speech. There are also very few independent media in Russia, that are not directly or indirectly, under Putin's control.

Second, the September 11th attacks on the United States, which killed almost 3,000 people. People were suddenly reminded of the fact that not the entire world had accepted liberal democracy as a good form, or even as an acceptable form of government. (source?) The countries in the Middle-east have had authoritarian governments since the end of colonialism, many of which had Western support. These attacks made painfully clear that there is a lack of freedom and democracy in the Middle-east.

Bernard Lewis, the famed historian of the Middle-east, has long argued in his many books about Islam, that the support that the West has lent to authoritarian and oppressive regimes in the Middle-east has contributed a great deal to Islamic animosity toward the West. Generally, little attention was paid by important policy-makers in the West to his opinions on his matter, and the West continued to support dictators whose only virtue (in the eyes of the West) was that they secured a steady supply of oil for the West.

After the September 11th attacks, it appeared that president George W. Bush adopted this line of thinking, since he spared Saudi Arabia, where so many of the perpetrators of the attacks came from. However, in many speeches he argued that pushing for democracy in Iraq was one way the West could prevent atrocities such as the ones on September 11th.

It remains to be seen, if the policies of Bush truly represented a watershed in American policies toward the Middle-east. They might not. President Jimmy Carter adopted tough human rights policies toward countries like Iran, Chile and Nicaragua, but this contributed to the fall of the pro-American shah of Iran and the ascendancy of the virulently anti-American Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who had even less respect for human rights and freedoms than the shah. Carter, therefore, failed to leave a permanent imprint on American foreign policy.

War in Ukraine
Ukraine gained formal independence from the Soviet Union on August 21, 1991. Since then Ukraine and Russia have been at odds over a number of political issues. Notably there has been a dichotomy of people who feel that Ukraine should either align with Western nations or Russia.

In March 2014, Russia annexed the Ukrainian region of Crimea. The resulting conflict lead to an invasion of the Ukrainian mainland on 24 February 2022. The Ukrainian's have been supported by Western nations and at the same time sanctioning Russia. Millions of civilians in Ukraine had became refugees in the weeks following the invasion, many in neighboring countries. The conflict disrupted the global wheat supply (Ukraine supplied about 10% of world grain production in 2021), causing prices to rise as much as 28% in the early stages of the war, before becoming relatively stabile by 2023.

title: World History/A New Millennium


text:
Talk:German/Level I/Freizeit

Audio Files
I really appreciate all the work people have given to this project and I am happy that I can use this Wikibook to learn Geman (I have printed it!) but I hate to say that some audio files are iritating. "Vocoded" and filtered files sound unnatural and simply do not fit the purpose. Editing is fine, as long as the listeners cannot "hear" that the voice was modulated -marvin

Gern vs Gerne
I had a bit of doubt on where to use gern and when to use gerne. Has it got anything to do with the cases? I hope it's not too abusive to post a question here, hope it can improve the course somehow.

Both words can be used in the same situations, but "gern" is used more often. --LaRzarus 15:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Really? I think I'm using "gerne" more often. Maybe a north-south difference? <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 20:44, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

"Gern" is an shortend version of "Gerne". You can use both, it doesn'T matter--<IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Saying when you do something
Does Time, Manner, Place not apply here?

Ich spiele Football um halb Vier is that not Um halb vier spiele ich Football In meiner Freizeit spiele ich Fussball etc

It's not clear to me at all how you're supposed to conjugate the verb "lesen". The section should actually say this instead of leaving the student guessing. Specifically, I have no idea how to conjugate it for 'ich'. The book talks about not adding an extra 's'. What extra 's'??? Where did that come from. Why would I hadd it and where would I put it?

I'm totally baffled by that comment. If the correct conjugation is ich lese then what's the point of talking about extra s's? Should the book also say not to add an extra w and two additional q's?

Ich lese is correct indeed, and I can't see any sense in the extra-s comment, either. I'm taking the liberty to take it out. Epsilon 20:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Correcting myself:The extra-s comment refers to the du-form, where you'd normally use the ending -st. As the stem of lesen ends in s, ond of the s's is indeed dropped. Du liest rather than du liesst or - even worse - du lesst. Epsilon 20:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

--- How come all of the WikiBooks are messed up like this? Now you can't see the lesson.

Sorry, there are a couple of word-order mistakes in the German and the 'Likes and Dislikes' uses the wrong verb.

 * Mag and other words will be introduced later, so please don't try to include them in this lesson. "Gern" will be left out when you use "mag", of course, but for this lesson, please leave it in (used with haben and schwimmen, etc.) Thanks. - SamE 13:22, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Even if we were to introduce "Mag", we would need to give them conjugations and an introduction to modals. - SamE 17:42, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I intend to add example problems to this at German:Beginner Lesson 2P (P for problems), so I apologize if the explanations (especially for time) seem way too brief. - SamE 17:50, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks SamE for fixing the errors and making the lesson viewable again.

It is not explained what plural and what singular was.

Pl/sing ecc. can be illustrated by a picture/pictogram.

 * It is assumed the reader already knows what plural and singular are, as it is taught as early as kindergarten and first grade. In lesson 1, the reader was introduced to the pronouns and their English equivalents. This should be enough. Actually, I was thinking about doing something defining the cases, as 1st person plural can include all three persons, for example. But it doesn't go here, rather in the first review. - SamE 03:03, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

In Austria 15:15 (and all other xx:15) is often called "Viertel Vier" (same use as the "Dreiviertel" mentioned in the text).

Also "Viertel", "Halb" and "Dreiviertel" only apply to 1-12 hours (I think this is true for Germany too). So one should never say "Viertel Dreizehn" or "Halb Fuenfzehn".

If somebody feels like reworking some lines, please consider these comments.

Hi, I do not understand the "Das soll Spass sein" in the dialogue. Perhaps it means "That should be fun", but WHAT should be fun? To what does it aplly? In every case, I would translate "That should/could be fun" with "Das soll/kann Spass MACHEN", because "this is fun" is translated with "das macht spass" -- <IP_ADDRESS> 20:39, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Replaced: !Franz
 * Wirklich? Ich spiele Fußball um drei.

by: !Franz
 * Wirklich? Ich spiele um drei Fußball.

"Ich Spiele Fußbal um drei" is correct, but unusual.

Conflicting answers
The lesson says that "In English one plays a sport, while in German one does a sport." so you should use the verb machen, but in the section quiz answers it uses spielen as in spielen Football instead of machen Football. I'm no expert in German, but this seems to conflict with the lesson. <IP_ADDRESS> 22:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in German one does a sport, but one plays soccer. If you do not understand I'll explain it it greater detail. --Je suis 00:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I think I get it. If you are naming a specific sport, one uses spielen but if you are referring to sports in general (Sport) one uses machen, correct?  <IP_ADDRESS> 03:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Ja! -- Je suis 21:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Volunteer for speaking the audiofiles
Hi ! My name is Stefan and i like to volunteer for making the audiofiles in native german. I am speaking the "high german" with no dialect. I have equipment to do high quality recording. Nice greetings --SvonHalenbach 11:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi folks! I'd help too. but how can i convert wav files to ogg? Can anybody help me? Thanks! Christoph <IP_ADDRESS> 14:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

One program for media conversion that I've used and liked is SUPER. For recording audio, I suggest Audacity, which exports .ogg easily. --TheSpinningBrain 04:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Sentence Structure
Quotation: '
 * Ich spiele Basketball, und er spielt auch Basketball.
 * I play basketball, and he also plays basketball.

The new word, "auch", is very important and it means "also". The one grammar rule about "auch" is that is always comes after the verb.'

I think you are a bit strict concerning the sentence structure: e. g. (see also previous unit) 'auch' can have many positions: to stress that _he_ also plays basketball, I could write 'und auch er spielt Basketball.', as well. I could even say '... und Basketball spielt er auch.' Some positions are impossible, i. e. '... Basketball auch spielt er.' and '... er auch spielt Basketball.' and '... er spielt Basketball auch.', but every different structure (with verb in second position) is allowed!

"auch" doesn't neccessarily comes after a verb: "ich spiele Fußball, auch spiele ich Tennis". However, this sounds a bit exalted. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 20:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Nicht
In the lesson, it says, "To say 'not', use 'nicht'. 'Nicht' goes after the verb but before the sport." It can, but it's more common for nicht to be at the end of the sentence in this case, unless the direct object is followed by "sondern," as in "Ich spiele nicht Fußball, sondern Schach." Otherwise, I would say either "Ich spiele Fußball nicht" or "Ich spiele keinen Fußball." --TheSpinningBrain 05:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "Ich spiele Fußball nicht" sounds wrong to me (native German). <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 20:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The rules for the position of "nicht" in non-contrastive uses are quite difficult; see in canoo.net. They consider "Ich spiele Gitarre nicht." as incorrect and "Ich spiele nicht Gitarre." as correct. I think the same is true for the example with "Fußball". --Martin Kraus (talk) 23:58, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sport Machen Versus Sport Treiben
When I was taught German, I mostly was exposed to using Treiben with Sport, and not Machen. Could someone please clarify if there's a difference in meaning, if one is more proper or more frequently used, and any other details that should be known? Thanks. --Silvorte 04:16, 07 June 2010 (UTC)

 * to me "treiben" sounds more exalted and "old school". However, "treiben" can also have a sexual connotation. <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 20:39, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I think you can use "treiben" and "machen" with the word "Sport". "treiben" is less colloquial and might be more common in written German. "machen" is more colloquial and probably more common in spoken German. E.g.: "Treibst/Machst du Sport?", "Ich treibe/mache (jeden Tag) Sport.", "Welchen Sport treibst/machst du?". With a specific sport (e.g. "Fußball", "Handball", "Basketball") you should use "spielen". "treiben" sounds very strange in this case and "machen" very colloquial (and wrong if you speak with an accent). --Martin Kraus (talk) 00:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Wrong sentences?
For me (German native speaker), the following sentences sound wrong or at least strange: "Wer hat Hausaufgaben?" (what does that mean? Maybe "Wer hat die Hausaufgaben gemacht?" or "Wer hat Hausaufgaben auf?"), "Wer spielt nicht Fußball?" (strange, correct: "Wer (von Euch) spielt kein Fußball?"), "Wir spielen nicht Tennis." (strange, correct: "Wir spielen kein Tennis."). <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 20:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 * True, the meaning of "Wer hat Hausaufgaben?" depends on the context. Without context it's unclear. "Wer spielt nicht Fußball?" and "Wir spielen nicht Tennis." sound correct to me (also native German speaker), although I would probably say "Wir spielen kein Tennis." --Martin Kraus (talk) 00:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Page split
I suggest to split this very long lesson into two: Freizeit (currently lesson 2a) and Zeit (currently lesson 2b).--Martin Kraus (talk) 07:12, 4 July 2010 (UTC) Subscript text

No test
The link to the test leads to an empty page.
 * Okay, I will check it. Thanks. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 19:28, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It is there. See | Test Page. Thanks. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 19:40, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:German/Level I/Freizeit


text:
Michael Duignan (bishop)

Michael Gerard Duignan (born 15 July 1970) is an Irish Roman Catholic prelate who has served as Bishop of Clonfert since 2019 and additionally as Bishop of Galway and Kilmacduagh since 2022.

Early life
Duignan was born in Athlone, County Roscommon, on 15 July 1970, the eldest of six children. He attended Cloonakilla National School in Bealnamulla and St. Aloysius College in Athlone, before studying for the priesthood at St. Patrick's Society for the Foreign Missions in Kiltegan, County Wicklow, and the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome.

Duignan was ordained as a priest for the Diocese of Elphin on 17 July 1994.

Presbyteral ministry
After completing a licentiate in dogmatic theology in 1995, Duignan's first pastoral assignments were as a curate in the cathedral parish in Sligo and chaplain to the local Institute of Technology, before returning to Rome to complete doctoral studies in contemporary trinitarian theology at the Pontifical Gregorian University.

Duignan returned to Ireland in 2001, serving as a curate in the parish of Cliffoney and teaching theology, philosophy and religious education at St Angela's College, before being appointed full-time lecturer in religious education and chaplain at St Angela's College in 2005, and subsequently its director of religious education, theology and chaplaincy programmes. In the same year, he was also appointed assistant diocesan secretary for the Diocese of Elphin.

Duignan was appointed diocesan director of the permanent diaconate in 2008, and subsequently national director in 2014. In the same year, he was also appointed chancellor, diocesan secretary and episcopal vicar for education and formation for the Diocese of Elphin, and subsequently as financial administrator in 2018.

Bishop of Clonfert
Duignan was appointed Bishop-elect of Clonfert by Pope Francis on 16 July 2019. He received episcopal ordination from his predecessor, John Kirby, on 13 October in St Brendan's Cathedral, Loughrea.

Bishop of Clonfert and Galway and Kilmacduagh
Following the announcement by Pope Francis on 16 November 2021 that the Dioceses of Clonfert and Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora would be united in persona episcopi, the first-ever union of its kind in Ireland, Duignan was appointed Bishop of Galway and Kilmacduagh and Apostolic Administrator of Kilfenora in addition to his appointment as Bishop of Clonfert on 11 February 2022.

He was installed on 1 May in the Cathedral of Our Lady Assumed into Heaven and St Nicholas, Galway.

title: Michael Duignan (bishop)


text:
User:Rkc05051991/sandbox

Welcome to RKC . RKC mean Rajkumar chaudhary this is my name.I am a Software engineer. We are working in Sarswatichandra Infotech. It is Corporation company you can easy join my club

title: User:Rkc05051991/sandbox


text:
малъ

Etymology
Akin to 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬, maybe also to 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) nail (on fingers)
 * 2) claw
 * 3) hoof

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1) small

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1) small

title: малъ


text:
Gene regulation in prokaryotes/Trp operon

trpR
The trp repressor gene, trpR, is not closely linked to the trp operon and trpR protein is always produced. In the presence of tryptophan, trpR repressor protein undergoes a conformational changes and binds to the operator, preventing transcription.

trpL and Attenuation
The trpL region lies 5' to the genes that encode tryptophan synthetic enzymes. Attenuation results from premature termination of trp RNA at the attenuator sequence in trpL and requires tryptophan-charged tRNATrp. RNA transcribed from the attenuator sequence forms a hairpin.

The 162 nucleotide trp leader contains four regions that can base pair with itself and for alternative stem-loop structurs.

The leader sequence contains a short open reading frame coding for a 14 amino acid peptide followed by a stop codon. This peptide includes two consecutive trp codons. The production of this peptide is modulated by the availability of charged tRNATrp


text:
Talk:Dennis Martínez

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Sarrahmarrrie.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

"The following year"
Too many sentences and paragraphs in this article begin with the phrase "the following year".

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Cleveland Indians (1994-1996)
Citation needed for the sentence about Puckett's glaucoma being "the result of Martinez's pitch"? Puckett's own page makes no mention of any connection between the two, and the Minnesota Twins' medical director has stated they were not connected: https://www.startribune.com/the-morning-kirby-puckett-woke-up-with-blindness-25-years-ago-changed-everything/600039470/ ("Final Swings" section). <IP_ADDRESS> (talk) 16:57, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dennis Martínez


text:
User:17bostongirl

books, movies, dogs - not necessarily in that order!
 * loves dogs - my dogsitter knows this, my sister knows this, Dougan, my Newfoundland/Heeler mix knows thisNewfoundland (dog)

 * loves books - so much so that I started volunteering at my library 5 years ago (I am now the director)Langlois, Oregon

 * loves movies - the library is the unofficial video (dvd) 'store' for the townLanglois, Oregon

I can't figure out the 'external link' so I could link to Langlois Public Library (langloispubliclibrary.org)
 * I have NO idea what I am doing! Clueless (film)

I am adding a 'conflict of interest' statement: I am using this as an assignment for a class. I am not intending to have a conflict of interest.

title: User:17bostongirl


text:
Mocis dolosa

Mocis dolosa is a species of moth of the family Erebidae. It is found in China, Japan (Honshu) and Taiwan.

title: Mocis dolosa


text:
F50 (catamaran)

The F50 is a one-design foiling catamaran used in the SailGP race series. The name is an abbreviation of "Foiling" and "a hull length of 50 feet". The F50s are adapted from the AC50s used in the America's Cup, with modifications including new control systems and modular wingsails. The F50s are one of the fastest racing classes in history, with a predicted top speed of 52.2 knots (96.6 km/h, 60 mph); the current F50 speed record, achieved by the France SailGP Team at the Range Rover France Sail Grand Prix in 2022, stands at 53.96 knots (99.94 km/h, 62.10 mph). On July 18 2024 Canada SailGP Team achieved a top speed of 55.06 knots (101.98 km/h, 63.37 mph) whilst testing new T-shaped foils, to replace L-shaped foils, in San Francisco.

Three AC50s from the 2017 America's Cup were converted to comply with the F50 one-design rule to create the new SailGP fleet racing circuit. Three more boats were built from scratch by Core Builders Composites to create an initial fleet of six boats crewed by teams from the United States, Australia, France, China, Japan, and the United Kingdom. For the 2020 SailGP championship, the Spain SailGP team used the F50 of the China SailGP team after their departure. A seventh F50 was commissioned for the Denmark SailGP team, which also joined for the 2020 SailGP championship. In the fourth season the fleet grew to 10 boats, with two more expected for the fifth season.

Specifications
The F50s use a two-element wingsail and jib for propulsion. One removable section in the wing can be used to achieve mast heights of 18 m and 24 m to suit wind conditions. By the third event of the 2021-22 SailGP championship, SailGP plans to introduce a 29 m wingsail for use in extremely light conditions. In SailGP regattas, the mast height, jib, and equipment are selected in competitions by the Tech Team Operations Manager, following a consultation with the Regatta Director and representatives from each team.

Apart from the wingsheet, which is powered by two grinders, all trimming is hydraulically powered by electric motors and lithium-ion batteries. This includes active pitch control of all appendages, daggerboard lifting/lowering, and the jibsheet. The reduction of one grinding position on board therefore allows the F50s to sail with just five crew. The geometry of the F50's daggerboards have been extended outside the maximum beam of the boat to provide more righting moment.

The F50s comprise a one-design development class. However, unlike most one-design sail classes with fixed rules, the F50s are being constantly developed with changes implemented on all boats at the same time. This prevents technological arms races, while allowing performance improvements.

Crew
The F50s have a crew of six, consisting of a helmsman, wing trimmer, flight controller, two grinders and a strategist. The flight controller controls the F50 using a double twist-grip device, which enables more accurate adjustment of the rake of the daggerboard. This relieves the helmsman, who previously flew the boat using twist-grips on the wheel, of flight control duties - allowing them to focus on tactics. Additionally, the F50s have active control of the rudder pitch; crews are no longer required to set and lock off the rudder pitch before the start of each race, as was the case with the AC50s in the 2017 America's Cup. While racing, crews stay in the windward hull.

F50s in culture
F50s were featured in Christopher Nolan's Tenet (2020). The scene featuring them was filmed in August 2019, following the 2019 Great Britain Sail Grand Prix in Cowes. The F50s belonging to the Japan and United States SailGP teams were used, with each being rebranded and painted white and blue respectively. Rome Kirby and Tom Slingsby were two of the athletes involved in the filming of the scene.

title: F50 (catamaran)


text:
MediaWiki:Sitestatstext

Since was setup on 10 July 2003, there has been $4 page edits to $1 pages in the  database. That comes to an average of $5 edits per page. This include "discussion" pages, pages about, minimal "stub" pages, redirects and others that probably don't qualify as book modules. Excluding those, there are probably $2 legitimate book modules in a multitude of textbooks.

$8 media files have been uploaded to.

There are $7 current jobs in the job queue.

title: MediaWiki:Sitestatstext


text:
Tuxentius ertli

Tuxentius ertli, the Ertli's Pierrot, is a butterfly in the family Lycaenidae. It is found in Tanzania, Malawi and Zambia. The habitat consists of woodland at high elevations.

The larvae feed on Gouania longispicata.

title: Tuxentius ertli


text:
User:Daniel Mietchen/Talks/Wikimania 2012/Smithsonian Institution/Wikimedia as a mobile platform

Wikimedia as a mobile platform

Smithsonian Institution · July 11, 2012, Washington, DC.

Daniel Mietchen · Wikimedian in Residence on Open Science · Open Knowledge Foundation Germany


text:
Talk:Tess Gerrand

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title: Talk:Tess Gerrand


text:
People's Artist of the Lithuanian SSR

People's Artist of the Lithuanian SSR (Lietuvos TSR liaudies artistas; Народный артист Литовской ССР) was an honorary title awarded to citizens of the Lithuanian SSR in the Soviet Union. It was awarded for outstanding performance and exceptional merits in the sphere of the performing arts (theatre, music, dance, circus, cinema, etc.).

Notable recipients

 * Kazimiera Kymantaitė (1909–1999), film actress and stage director
 * Antanas Račiūnas (1905 - 1984), composer and professor
 * Juozas Siparis
 * Antanas Sodeika
 * Kostantinas Galkauskas
 * Leonardas Zelchus
 * Povilas Gaidys
 * Gražina Balandytė
 * Gediminas Karka
 * Vytautas Paukštė

title: People's Artist of the Lithuanian SSR


text:
Thomas Angell (born 1692)

Thomas Angell (29 December 1692 – 19 September 1767) was a Norwegian merchant, estate owner, mine owner and philanthropist.

Biography
Thomas Angell was born in Trondheim, the son of merchant Albert Lorenzen Angell. He was educated in theology in Copenhagen. Angell inherited a large fortune from his parents, who belonged to a wealthy trading family with roots in Southern Schleswig. Together with his brother Lorentz Angell (1690–1751), Thomas Angell managed the estate of the Angell family. The business activities eventually included saw mills, shipping companies and the export of various commodities. In addition the Angell brothers owned and managed their interests in the Røros Copper Works.

Thomas Angell donated his fortune to a charity trust fund through his will. The trust fund is administered by the Thomas Angell Foundations (Thomas Angells Stiftelser). Thomas Angell House, a large building complex in Trondheim with apartments for the elderly, was built by the Thomas Angell Foundation between the years 1770 and 1772. The building also provides offices for administration of the Thomas Angell Foundation.

Other sources

 * Bull, Ida (1992)  Thomas Angell – kapitalisten som ble hjembyens velgjører (Trondheim: Thomas Angells stiftelser)  ISBN<PHONE_NUMBER>

Related Reading

 * Thomas Angell by Olaf Kringhaug
 * Ida Bull (2006) Immigrating Merchants to Trondheim in the 18th Century

title: Thomas Angell (born 1692)


text:
Talk:Hiragana & Katakana

Balloonguy 23:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC) -- The table layout looks nice, but it doesn't show the stroke order. I suggest commons:Chinese stroke order:Asian alphabets, which has images with the stroke order of all the hiragana and almost all of the katakana.

 * Xlbnushk 03:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC) -- Wow, that's...a lot. That's in the very distant future. I can't even figure out how to get the tables to work right yet.

Balloonguy 22:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC) -- I modified the table to show different ways on how to show stroke order. One way is to link to the image and the other way is to show it right on the table. We could also organize the table by having separate tables for every consonant group.

 * Xlbnushk 23:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC) -- Hey, good job! Now that you show me, I like the stroke order style. That's definitely a go. And the image approach resolves the display issues that the table was having with Japanese characters.

Balloonguy 21:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC) -- Were you planning on including all the kana on this page? The page would get very long if you did. Also by looking at the bottom of the page and Topic:Japanese, it seems that we are going to have a learning project for reading and writing, speaking and for culture, which is fine, but how are we going to interconnect these concepts? Also, how are we going to apply The Wikiversity model for online learning?

 * Xlbnushk 06:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC) -- We could create assignments for people to practice writing...and then have them scan their practice sheets, if possible? I could put together some PDF's where you would be given the romanization or the kana and would have to figure out its counterpart. Frankly, though, I don't see too much of that happening here in particular. When we get to, say, basic grammar, we could have people put sentences together. That would be much easier to coordinate; people write sentences, submit the documents.

 * Balloonguy 20:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC) -- I've thought about it and yes you are right, when people start learning kana, we can't really make a group thing come out of it. When we get more advanced we could ask them to come up with a collaborative story or something where each person adds on to the previous person's story.

 * Limetom 04:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC) -- Of course after forgetting to log in, I added in all the hiragana that were finished. It seems that the dakuten, hadakuten, and yoōn hiragana aren't finished yet.

 * Balloonguy 19:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC) -- Good job!

<IP_ADDRESS> 12:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC) -- THIS IS MY FIRST TIME IN WIKIVERSITY! I love this page, AWESOME welldone! Im afraid that japanese lessons are scarce here. But I now know every character! Beautiful illustration! --+I propose a pronounciation guide, a la "Living Language Japanese Coursebook [The Basics]"+-=

Limetom 12:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC) -- Katakana are now up. As with hiragana, the dakuten, hadakuten, and yoōn kana are not yet done. I don't know who did/is doing them, but I'd be glad to finish if I could figure out how they did it (and assuming I can do what they did in Photoshop in GIMP...)

I split this page into Hiragana and Katakana to make it easier to understand.--Balloonguy 23:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hiragana & Katakana


text:
Cookbook:Minestrone alla Capucina

Minestra alla Capucina is an Italian recipe of soup in which Cappuccina lettuce is used.

Ingredients

 * Anchovy, scaled
 * Butter
 * 1 small onion, cut across
 * 4 oz boiled rice
 * Stock

Procedure

 * 1) Pound anchovy.
 * 2) Fry it in butter with the onion and rice until the rice is golden brown.
 * 3) Remove the onion and season with salt.
 * 4) Gradually add some stock, cooking until the dish is of the consistency of rice pudding.

title: Cookbook:Minestrone alla Capucina