---
title: "Maxwell Proffer (EFTA02847203)"
source: "Maxwell Proffer"
sourceUrl: "https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/Prior%20DOJ%20Disclosures/Maxwell%20Proffer/EFTA02847203.pdf"
date: "2026-08-12"
category: "Prior Release"
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---
United States Department of Justice INTERVIEW OF: GHISLAINE MAXWELL
DATE: July 25, 2025
#### APPEARANCES:
For the United States: Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General Diego Pestana, Acting Associate Deputy Attorney General Spencer Horn, FBI Special Agent Mark Beard, Deputy U.S. Marshal
For Ghislaine Maxwell:
David Markus
Leah Saffian
Melissa Madrigal
| 1 INTERVIEW 1 additional memories just for clarity. I believe I 2 *** 2 said that I couldn't think of anybody who I may h 3 SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is 3 asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I 4 Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is 3 asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I 5 Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in 5 in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to addres 6 Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a 6 that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging 7 recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell. 8 And also but I couldn't remember anyor 8 TODD BLANCHE: Good morning. 10 So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I 9 How are you? 9 and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning. 10 So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I 11 TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer 11 just don't I don't remember anybody that I wou 12 agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a 12 have. But it's not impossible that I might have 13 | ss
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| 2***2said that I couldn't think of anybody who I may H3SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is3asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I4Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is3asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I5Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in6that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging6Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a7recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.7recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.7because that seems weird under the circumstance8TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.8And also but I couldn't remember anyor9How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I wou12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. Ther | ss
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| 3SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is4Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is5Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in6Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a7recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.8TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.9How are you?9GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's14exactly the same document and you'll see your15signature. If you can just initial right to the left16of right here.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? | ss
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| - Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is
- Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in
- Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a
- recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
- How are you?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good. So the proffer
- agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a
- place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- glace on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- the exactly the same document and you'll see your
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- Was the allegation at least is that I met in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to addreate that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging
- because that seems weird under the circumstance
- And also but I couldn't remember anyoor
- and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim
- So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
- thave. But it's not impossible that I might have
- asked someone from there.
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know
- exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think
- what you said yesterday is different than what you
- just said. So, yes. There's
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| - Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in
- Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a
- recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
- How are you?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good. So the proffer
- agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a
- place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- exactly the same document and you'll see your
- signature. If you can just initial right to the left
- of right here.
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to addreate that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging
- because that seems weird under the circumstance
- And also but I couldn't remember anyoor
- add maybe, you know, it's a long period of time
- So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
- thave. But it's not impossible that I might have
- asked someone from there.
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know
- exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think
- what you said yesterday is different than what you
- just said. So, yes. There's
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| 6Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.6that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging
because that seems weird under the circumstance
And also but I couldn't remember anyor
and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim
109How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim
1010GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.
1110So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
just don't I don't remember anybody that I wou
have. But it's not impossible that I might have
asked someone from there.13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
signature. If you can just initial right to the left
of right here.1416of right here.
OHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?1417GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17 | s.
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| - recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
- How are you?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer
- agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a
- place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- genature. If you can just initial right to the left
- of right here.
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- TODD BLANCHE: Here's a
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't think
- the same document and you'll see your
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't think
- the same document and you'll see your
- the same document and you'll see your
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't think
- the same document and you'll see your
- the same document and you'll see your
- the same document and you'll see your
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| 8TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.8And also but I couldn't remember anyour9How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of time10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | e
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| 9How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | e.
Id |
| 10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | ld |
| 11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | , |
| 12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | , |
| 13 place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's 13 asked someone from there. 14 exactly the same document and you'll see your 14 TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know 15 signature. If you can just initial right to the left 15 exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think 16 of right here. 16 what you said yesterday is different than what you 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? 17 just said. So, yes. There's | |
| 14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left1516of right here.1617GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17 | |
| 15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?1717just said. So, yes. There's | |
| 16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | |
| 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? 17 just said. So, yes. There's | ı |
| | |
| 110 TODD DI ANCHE, Dight thora 110 CHIGI ADJE MANWELL, OL. 11 | |
| 18 TODD BLANCHE: Right there. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I just | anted |
| 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , it's okay. 19 to be I just didn't want to feel that I had said | |
| 20 TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Markus will 20 no to something and that it and | |
| 21 DAVID MARKUS: Yes. 21 TODD BLANCHE: DOUREDACTION definited | |
| 22 TODD BLANCHE: initial as well. Thank 22 has said that she was working at Mar-a-Lago and | |
| 23 you. 23 you received a treatment of her from her at sort | e |
| 24 And just to kind of before we get 24 point, and that you recruited her to meet | |
| 25 going, I'll just say that exactly the same folks that 25 Mr. Epstein. | |
| Page 218 Pag | e 220 |
| 1 were here when we met yesterday are here today. So 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | |
| 2 there's no I'm not going to do formal 2 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know, affirma | tively, |
| 3 introductions, because it's exactly the same group of 3 whether that's true or false, or do you just not have | |
| 4 folks. 4 a memory either way? | |
| 5 So we're continuing, Ms. Maxwell, our 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't b | elieve |
| 6 discussion of yesterday. And the same the same 6 it's true. But I know that I did go to spas and if I | |
| 7 kind of rules apply. If you we'll take breaks, if 7 met someone, I did ask if they're (indiscernible) | |
| 8 you need to talk to Mr. Markus or your lawyers, no 8 so I don't in the realms of possibility, it could | |
| 9 absolutely no problem. Just let me know. I'll try 9 have, but I have no memory of it. | |
| 10 to ask my questions in a coherent manner, but if 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | |
| 11 there's anything that I say that's confusing, 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I don't be | ieve |
| 12 definitely interrupt me. 12 that that it's how it went down, but I don't want | |
| 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I will. Thank you. 13 to | |
| 14 TODD BLANCHE: So I think the easiest 14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I want to ta | k |
| 15 thing to start with is, is there anything that we 15 about we talked a little bit yesterday about the | |
| 16 talked about yesterday that we're going to go 16 financial part of your relationship with Mr. Epster | 1, |
| 17 through some more names. I think that we that's 17 kind of being on payroll, for lack of a better word | |
| 18 one of the places that we that we interrupted, 18 for many, many years, starting around \$25,000 and | 1 |
| 19 just because there's a lot of names. 19 ending up at around \$250,000 per year. | |
| 20 But aside from additional names, is there 20 There's as you know, from your trial, | |
| 21 anything that you wanted to kind of follow up on that 21 there's banking information that shows a ton of m | ney |
| 22 we talked about yesterday or anything that you 22 being sent to you from Mr. Epstein over the years | |
| 23 thought maybe you remember more of or not? 23 And I think totaling something like | |
| 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some more names did 24 \$30 million, something like this. What's what's | |
| 25 come to me in the night, and I did have some 25 the why was that money sent to you? Like, where | t |
2 (Pages 217 to 220)
| | Page 221 | | Page 223 |
|----|-------------------------------------------------------|----|-------------------------------------------------------|
| | | | |
| 1 | was that for? | 1 | disputing all of it. |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: But when you said let's |
| 3 | don't I dispute the characterization that the | 3 | go back and look. Why would why did money have to |
| 4 | money was sent to me. | 4 | go into your accounts or account that was controlled |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So tell me what I | 5 | by others, but in your name to, like, purchase a |
| 6 | am stuck with the witnesses at trial and what was | 6 | helicopter? |
| 7 | said at trial on that issue. So what what what | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , that's a very good |
| 8 | is the what do you dispute about that? | 8 | question. I don't I'm not sure I know the answer |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe I | 9 | to that. I don't. |
| 10 | don't have full recollection. I'm not even sure I | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: So let me ask this maybe a |
| 11 | ever saw what they accused me of, but my belief is | 11 | different way that gets to the issue, right? So the |
| 12 | that that money also contained money that was for a | 12 | accusation by the government, based upon the evidence |
| 13 | helicopter, for instance, that I never owned and I | 13 | they collected, is that Epstein paid you millions and |
| 14 | was never mine. And | 14 | millions of dollars over the years. |
| 15 | DAVID MARKUS: In other words, money was | 15 | And the reason why he paid you that is |
| 16 | sent to you that you then used to purchase things | 16 | because you were performing an extraordinary service |
| 17 | or | 17 | for him by recruiting young women, many of whom were |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I'm not even | 18 | underage to so that he could sexually abuse them. |
| 19 | sure that I purchased it. So the accounts those | 19 | Okay. That's their that's their allegation. |
| 20 | accounts would be controlled by his accountants. | 20 | Okay. |
| 21 | And | 21 | From what you said yesterday and from what |
| 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Even accounts in your name, | 22 | I've reviewed about you and Mr. Epstein, he paid for |
| 23 | you're saying, or one of your entities? | 23 | a lot in your life. |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I'm not even | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. |
| 25 | sure I knew of all the entities. I'm not I | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Your flights, where you |
| | Page 222 | | Page 224 |
| 1 | don't it maybe I did, contemporaneously, but I | 1 | stayed with him. I mean, he didn't expect you to |
| 2 | simply wouldn't know today. So if there was an | 2 | reimburse him along the way for food and, you know, |
| 3 | entity, let's say account X, if I really set that up | 3 | so he took care of you for many years. |
| 4 | myself or whether they said, we're doing this and the | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is true. |
| 5 | money's coming or whatever. But in no substantive | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: On top of that, he actually |
| 6 | way I can't think of the right word. | 6 | paid you a salary as we talked about \$25,000 to |
| 7 | DAVID MARKUS: Did you have control | 7 | \$250,000. What else did he give you? Or what |
| 8 | over | 8 | purchase like, was there a time when he gave you a |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I had no control, is | 9 | million dollars or \$500,000 as a bonus? Or what |
| 10 | what I'm saying. | 10 | what financial benefit did you receive from him, |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: So when when the | 11 | besides what we've already talked about. We don't |
| 12 | government when there was testimony or the | 12 | have to talk about what, you know, so |
| 13 | government admitted evidence that showed, for | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I got it. I got it. |
| 14 | example, \$5 million in 2002 coming from Epstein to | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 15 | you, okay, what you're saying is that that may | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So my goal, always, |
| 16 | that happened, but that the you there, wasn't money | 16 | was to become independent, independently, financially |
| 17 | that he wasn't giving you money. | 17 | secure and work for myself. I've never been one to |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not going to say | 18 | not work. And in that regard, over the course of my |
| 19 | that for everything, because maybe there were | 19 | friendship and my working relationship with Epstein, |
| 20 | accounts that money was sent to me. But I can say | 20 | I expressed to him my desire to be independent of him |
| 21 | that I know like the helicopter, I can | 21 | everywhere, just to be freestanding. |
| 22 | definitively say. I'd have to look at all of them to | 22 | And the in with that in mind, I |
| 23 | be accurate for you. | 23 | wanted to have my own businesses or my own money |
| 24 | But to explain how or why I could be | 24 | coming in independent and separate from any salary |
| | | | |
| 25 | receiving monies, and I certainly did. So I'm not | 25 | that I received from him. |
3 (Pages 221 to 224)
| | Page 225 | | Page 227 |
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| 1 | And I needed that for my self-esteem. | 1 | right. That had the doors that would come up like |
| 2 | I've never been I mean, obviously salary and it | 2 | this |
| 3 | was a very generous one. Please, I'm not belittling | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 4 | the sum of money, because it's huge, but I was | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There were only a very |
| 5 | brought up to work and I was brought up to be my own, | 5 | limited number that were made. So I knew that we |
| 6 | you know. | 6 | could get those and flip them right within 24 hours, |
| 7 | The first time so I would either | 7 | for example. |
| 8 | propose businesses to him or he would actually | 8 | Also my here's another example of |
| 9 | suggest why didn't I do something in the first deal | 9 | something that you guys wouldn't have known about is |
| 10 | that we did, or the first business that we had or I | 10 | I became a banker. I got my Series 63, Series 67 |
| 11 | had and that he financed for me. | 11 | banking license and became a broker for like a new |
| 12 | So he gave he loaned me all the money | 12 | (inaudible). And then because I was day trading. |
| 13 | to enable me to do this and then I reaped the | 13 | Everything I had I day traded with through an |
| 14 | profits, which I don't remember now, because we | 14 | account. |
| 15 | varied over the deals that we did, that I would give | 15 | And I think I was lucky more than smart, |
| 16 | him 50 percent or 25. | 16 | but I made quite a lot of money doing that. And so |
| 17 | It was sort of it was random. | 17 | |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: When was that? Like what |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I can tell you | 19 | approximate time |
| 20 | what it is, so we can compare it. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Again, that's in the |
| 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Go ahead. | 21 | '90s again. I don't , wait. I think well, |
| 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it was in Palm | 22 | you can find it, because it'll be my banking license, |
| 23 | Beach actually, and it was in real estate. And they | 23 | right? That'll be something that you can look up, |
| 24 | sold what was the grounds originally of an estate | 24 | probably.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 25 | called the Phipps Estate. And then they converted | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Yean. |
| | Page 226 | | Page 228 |
| 1 | the land that came with that estate into houses. And | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So what whatever that |
| 2 | I did, I think, two or maybe I can't remember now, | 2 | is and I just don't remember when that is. I'm |
| 3 | but certainly one and maybe two, possibly three. I | 3 | sorry. |
| 4 | don't think so. I think two, that then were flipped | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: So okay. So |
| 5 | and there was a profit. | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And so for an example, |
| 6
7 | So that would be an example of that. But | 6 | I was I was doing really, really, really well.
And so he was like, how do you do that? Well, how |
| 8 | I didn't have the money, so he lent me the funds to
do that business transaction and then I reaped the | 8 | are you what are you why are you investing in, |
| 9 | profits. | 9 | I don't know, Apple when nobody liked Apple. This |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And so but when | 10 | is, you know, before Apple or Microsoft. I didn't |
| 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that's millions of | 11 | know Bill Gates, so this is not related to him. |
| 12 | dollars. | 12 | But my family |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: when a financial | 13 | DAVID MARKUS: Don't charge her with |
| 14 | investigator like, the FBI looks at accounts, they | 14 | insider trading. |
| 15 | don't know kind of the conversations you're having. | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Please no. I'm not |
| 16 | They just see the money. | 16 | trying to suggest that. , goodness. Please, no. |
| 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | 17 | I had no |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So in those cases, when | 18 | DAVID MARKUS: It was just a joke. |
| 19 | that happened, when he would when he financed that | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. |
| 20 | with you, would he send money to you? So does that | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: It was a joke. |
| 21 | explain some of the money? Like, I guess | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. No. All right. |
| 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I think | 22 | But my going back to my family, my dad |
| | | 23 | had given me an account when I was 12 and I had |
| 23 | it does. I think, for instance, there were two | 23 | had given me an account when I was 12 and I had |
| | Gullwing Mercedes that they did with Mercedes and
Aston You can look it up, I think, if I'm | 24
25 | always an interest in business and finance, not
not very sophisticated. I'm not suggesting that. |
4 (Pages 225 to 228)
| | Page 229 | | Page 231 |
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| 1 | And so I like to trade and so I did and I | 1 | Was it was that the helicopter? |
| 2 | did well. And so then I would tell him what I was | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: That was that's my |
| 3 | doing. Now, whether he did or he didn't, he told me | 3 | question for you. |
| 4 | he matched me in some other accounts that he had. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , sorry. |
| 5 | Because he did a lot of he my observation, to | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: I don't know. |
| 6 | go back to what he did, I observed him personally and | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Sorry. |
| 7 | have recollection personal recollection of him | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: So in 2007 |
| 8 | trading this money, lots. Tens of millions, hundreds | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that was |
| 9 | of millions of dollars. | 9 | probably the helicopter. That could have been |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: That was that he was | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: That was what? |
| 11 | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That could have been |
| 12 | trading for other people | | |
| | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 12 | the helicopter, the Sikorsky. Those big chunks like |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: or that was his own | 13 | that, I don't I didn't I don't personally have |
| 14 | money? | 14 | any memory of receiving a check from him for |
| 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want also to clarify | 15 | \$7 million. I just I just don't. But I would |
| 16 | something for you or clarify or underline. Wexner | 16 | have to I know I so the answer to your |
| 17 | was, in my opinion, his closest friend in this time | 17 | question, to be precise |
| 18 | period from when I met him in '91, right, all the way | 18 | DAVID MARKUS: You would remember if it |
| 19 | until well, 'til, I don't know. | 19 | went into your pocket |
| 20 | Because I wasn't that friendly with | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would remember if it |
| 21 | well, I did travel with Mr. Wexner, but Epstein told | 21 | went I would he never paid me to for |
| 22 | me that Wexner didn't want to be seen too much with | 22 | services that you just described, \$7 million, to |
| 23 | me, because of my family problems. You know, whether | 23 | for any nefarious reason. |
| 24 | that was | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. I think I understand |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: You mean the problems that | 25 | what you've said about being on the payroll and |
| | Page 230 | | Page 232 |
| 1 | your father's company had with | 1 | helping him helping you with businesses, and |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2 | giving you a lot of life things along the way. You |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: embezzlement or | 3 | travel with him, you ate with him. He's, you know, |
| 4 | allegations of | 4 | but there is the these massive amounts of money, |
| 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Yes. That's | 5 | one-time payments that I |
| 6 | what I'm talking about. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I don't you'd |
| 7 | And now, actually today not | 7 | have to trace that, right? So I don't believe that |
| 8 | contemporaneously, but today I don't believe that | 8 | came into my account or I had any control. I have no |
| 9 | that's even true. I think it was used as a means to | 9 | memory of that. I have no no |
| 10 | not have me travel with him to Ohio or whatever. It | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, but if there's |
| 11 | was just a way to park me. | 11 | records that show it coming into your account, it |
| 12 | And I believe that now, because within the | 12 | sounds like what you're saying is that not putting |
| 13 | discovery there was a lot of well, not a lot, but | 13 | aside your you have no memory of that money being |
| 14 | there was some indications that he would actively | 14 | yours. |
| 15 | tell other people to lie to me or conceal things from | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 16 | me, and that he never loved me and I wasn't his type. | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Like you didn't that |
| 17 | That's in the discovery somewhere. | 17 | money is not somewhere |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So okay. So the | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I wouldn't be |
| 19 | government had evidence that, even as late as 2007, | 19 | like, , yippee, let me go. I got \$7 million. I'm |
| 20 | he paid you a lot of money. | 20 | going to go buy myself a yacht. No. Or I don't |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What was that? What | 21 | know, something else or move it to some other no. |
| 22 | was the money? | 22 | I don't think I don't think, if you |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Like several millions of | 23 | look you'll have to check, obviously you will. I |
| 23 | millions of dollars in 2007. \$7.4 million, I think. | 24 | |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What was that for? | 25 | don't think you'll find that money moving in any
to any account, either of mine or it shouldn't show, |
| 20 | OHISLAINE MAAWELL: What was that for? | 20 | to any account, entier of mine of it shouldn't show, |
5 (Pages 229 to 232)
| | Page 233 | | Page 235 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | I don't believe anyway. As far as I recollect, it | 1 | in the name of the entity. It had nothing to do with |
| 2 | wouldn't show me spending it. | 2 | her. And if you pull signatures |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Right. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that make sense? | 4 | LEAH SAFFIAN: there's no evidence for |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, that makes | 5 | that. |
| 6 | sense. I mean, I think if I don't think there's | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: No. My what I'm trying |
| 7 | any dispute by anybody, even your lawyers at trial, | 7 | to just make sure I that I understand, is that the |
| 8 | that that that the money went in. | 8 | idea that you were paid \$30 million between '99 and |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , \$7 million in | 9 | 2007, in order to by Mr. Epstein to reward you for |
| 10 | when, what year? | 10 | recruiting young women. That is in your you're |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, there's several | 11 | saying that is categorically, completely false? |
| 12 | years; in 2007. | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is categorically |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And? | 13 | false, correct. |
| 14 | TODD BLANCHE: 2002, there was \$5 million | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I want to just |
| 15 | that you were paid in 2002. | 15 | we went through several individuals yesterday and I |
| 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , well, I'd have | 16 | want to go through just a couple of more names and |
| 17 | to I don't I don't remember. But okay. So | 17 | ask if you if you know them. And if you do know |
| 18 | there's there would be another large sum, but it | 18 | them, how you know them. |
| 19 | wouldn't have come from him later. But it had | 19 | Do you know Elon Musk? |
| 20 | nothing to do | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. |
| 21 | TODD BLANCHE: The biggest one was in | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: And how did you meet |
| 22 | 1999. There's over \$18 million. \$18.3 million. | 22 | Mr. Musk? |
| 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know what that | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him in I |
| 24 | is. | 24 | don't remember the year, but it's going to be in |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: So what but you | 25 | 2010, '11, something like that, I think, if my memory |
| | | | |
| | Page 234 | | Page 236 |
| 1 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and | 1 | serves. |
| 2 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. | 2 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the |
| 2
3 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
if you don't know, we're going to we can move on.
But when we're talking about \$18.3 million | 2
3 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for |
| 2
3
4 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
if you don't know, we're going to we can move on.
But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, | 2
3
4 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday. |
| 2
3
4
5 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money
| 2
3
4
5 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million.
| 2
3
4
5
6 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your
| 2
3
5
6
7
8 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein. Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts.
| 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein. Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002,
- \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember, |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. But I don't think this money is mine.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. But I don't think this money is mine. LEAH SAFFIAN: But also, the record should
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've
ever met him. I know that he has a brother and I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. But I don't think this money is mine.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've |
6 (Pages 233 to 236)
| | Page 237 | | Page 239 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | around 2010, on the island in the Caribbean for a | 1 | and I met him a few times and I certainly met his |
| 2 | couple days, did you have you seen do you know | 2 | brother as well a few times. |
| 3 | Mr. Musk beyond that time? | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: And the same questions that |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: We met at I was at | 4 | I asked about Mr. Musk, do you know whether |
| 5 | the Oscars and we met at the Oscars. | 5 | Mr. Epstein knew Andrew or Christor or |
| 6 | TODD BLANCHE: What year was that, earlier | 6 | Ms. Kennedy, your friend? |
| 7 | or later? | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think so. |
| 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was post that | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: And so you never you |
| 9 | event, I believe. | 9 | don't recall any of those three individuals, like, |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether | 10 | flying on Mr. Epstein's plane |
| 11 | Mr. Epstein knew Mr. Musk? | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe they did. | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: or visiting him in |
| 13 | And the only reason I say that is not from my memory, | 13 | Palm Beach or at the island? |
| 14 | but because I saw I think I saw my memory is | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 15 | that in discovery, they were communicating on email. | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: I think you mentioned |
| 16 | TODD BLANCHE: So you have no personal | 16 | former Secretary of State John Kerry yesterday. But |
| 17 | knowledge of that? | 17 | if not, do you know Mr. Kerry or no? |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have met him, but I |
| 19 | TODD BLANCHE: It's just what you've | 19 | don't know if Mr. Epstein ever met him. I met him |
| 20 | what you've seen from the press or from discovery? | 20 | only well, really I can't even probably |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I believe his | 21 | characterize that as a meeting, but I was very, very |
| 22 | brother as well, actually. | 22 | involved in the Ocean at Work, through the you |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Excuse me? | 23 | asked me yesterday about TerraMar. |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mr. Musk's brother as | 24 | And if I recall right, I met Mr the |
| 25 | well. But I don't my like I said, my memory is | 25 | Secretary that way through the Ocean, but he wouldn't |
| 20 | | 2.0 | |
| 1 | Page 238 | | Page 240 |
| 1 | Page 238 | | Page 240 |
| 1 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be. | 1 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think. |
| 2 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that. | 2 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether |
| 2
3 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I | 2
3 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy? |
| 2
3
4 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing , | 2
3
4 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 2
3
4
5 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew | 2
3
4
5 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein? |
| 2
3
4
5 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew .
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew .
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr. ?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy? |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris. | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
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11
12
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14
15 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Maxwell: Code, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
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14
15
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18 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN:
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris. | 2
3
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6
7
8
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10
11
12
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14
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18 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But Bobby Kennedy |
| 2
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9 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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19 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sut Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health |
| 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sut Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris ??
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but I would say | 2
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6
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8
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21 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew
Mr. Epstein. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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19
20
21
22
23 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew |
7 (Pages 237 to 240)
| | Page 241 | | Page 243 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | trip together. Was we went to dinosaur bone | 1 | was he was well established. |
| 2 | hunting in the Dakotas. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: When was that, you know, | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't need me. |
| 4 | approximately? I'm not looking for an exact date, | 4 | And he was, you know, his Eva was, you know, major |
| 5 | but when was that? | 5 | model. So he had all these modeling connections and |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was early that | 6 | friends in that business, long before I met him. |
| 7 | was in the early well, let me back up. I knew | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: And so the trip that you |
| 8 | Bobby's wife, Mary, pretty well, actually. And | 8 | went on with Mr. Epstein and Bobby Kennedy, was that |
| 9 | before he met her. | 9 | in the '90s and 2000s when |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And just to help us, I know | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was in |
| 11 | we're talking about a wide span of time, but what are | 11 | the it would've been in the I want to say '93, |
| 12 | you when are you talking about that you knew | 12 | '94. |
| 13 | Mr. Kennedy's wife before they were married. | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So a very long time |
| 14 | So when are talking about the | 14 | ago. |
| 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I in 19 all | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A very, very long time |
| 16 | right. I guess, let's get my head straight. In | 16 | ago. |
| 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, would this have been | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: A few years into the |
| 18 | before you met Mr. Epstein | 18 | your relationship a few years into the time that |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 19 | you knew Mr. Epstein? |
| 20 | TODD BLANCHE: or after? Okay. So | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, I don't |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him before I | 21 | want to hold myself to the dates because I really |
| 22 | met. | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: No, no. I'm not holding |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: So we're talking about the | 23 | you to dates. I think |
| 24 | 1980s. | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I really don't |
| 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. Yes. Thank | 25 | |
| | | | D |
| | Page 242 | | Page 244 |
| 1 | you. | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot, |
| 2 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and |
| 2
3 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s. | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I a
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