--- document_id: "EFTA02846943" source_file: "EFTA02846943.md" dataset: "maxwell-proffer" pages: 2347 chars: 4694841 ocr_status: "ok" document_type: "EFTA" page_vibes_legal: 0.5 page_vibes_correspondence: 0.5 page_vibes_journalism: 0.5 page_vibes_scholarship: 0.5 page_vibes_flight_log: 0.5 page_vibes_financial_record: 0.5 page_vibes_first_page: 0.5 page_vibes_last_page: 0.5 --- United States Department of Justice INTERVIEW OF: GHISLAINE MAXWELL DATE: July 24, 2025 # APPEARANCES: For the United States: Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General Diego Pestana, Acting Associate Deputy Attorney General Spencer Horn, FBI Special Agent Mark Beard, Deputy U.S. Marshal For Ghislaine Maxwell: David Markus Leah Saffian Melissa Madrigal ![](_page_0_Picture_9.jpeg) | 1 | Page 2 | | Page 4 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | INTERVIEW | 1 | I'm not promising to ask Judge Nathan or | | 2 | *** | 2 | any of the judges that's been assigned to your case | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: I am going to ask everybody | 3 | to do anything. It we're just talking. And so | | 4 | to put their name on the record here. | 4 | that's the most important important part of of | | 5 | SPENCER HORN: Good morning. My name is | 5 | this agreement. | | 6 | Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Spencer Horn of | 6 | However, almost as important is the fact | | 7 | FBI, New York. | 7 | that what this agreement does for you is it gives you | | 8 | Today we're doing a proffer of | 8 | protection. So what it means is that the government | | 9 | Ms. Maxwell. The date is July 24th and the time is | 9 | cannot use what you say today against you, with some | | 10 | 10:12 a.m. This interview is being recorded. | 10 | exceptions, which we'll talk about in a minute. | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: And my name is Todd | 11 | But whatever you talk about today, you | | 12 | Blanche. I'm the Deputy Attorney General. And | 12 | have what's called immunity. So that means that the | | 13 | before we start formally asking questions of | 13 | words that you say today, we cannot use against you | | 14 | Ms. Maxwell, I'm going to put on the record everybody | 14 | in a case in chief, if we were ever to bring one. | | 15 | that's in this room, in addition to me, starting with | 15 | Okay? | | 16 | you, Diego. | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. | | 17 | DIEGO PESTANA: Diego Pestana, Associate | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: All right. There's | | 18 | Deputy Attorney General. | 18 | exceptions to that. The most meaningful one of which | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: And then you heard from | 19 | is that, if you say something today that's not true, | | 20 | Special Agent in Charge Horn. Mark Beard from the | 20 | that's a lie, we can bring a prosecution against you | | 21 | United States Marshal Service is here as well. | 21 | for what's called false statements. | | 22 | And then David. | 22 | So I'm a federal officer, I have several | | 23 | DAVID MARKUS: Yes. This is David Oscar | 23 | officers here. The FBI is here. And if if you | | 24 | Markus, and I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell. | 24 | lie to someone that's like me or like Special | | 25 | LEAH SAFFIAN: My name is Leah Saffian and | 25 | Agent Horn, it's a crime. So you have to be | | | | | | | 1 | Page 3 | | Page 5 | | 1 | Page 3 | | Page 5 | | 1 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell. | 1 | truthful. | | 2 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is | 2 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't | | 2
3 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine | 2
3 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever | | 2
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4 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell. | 2
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4 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a | | 2
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5 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. | 2
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5 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against | | 2
3
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5
6 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm | 2
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6 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different | | 2
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6
7 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell. | 2
3
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5
6
7 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell. | 2
3
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6
7
8 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness, | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you? | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning, | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche. | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in | | 2
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6
7
8
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10
11
12 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we | 2
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6
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8
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10
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12 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your | | 2
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6
7
8
9
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13 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said | | 2
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6
7
8
9
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14 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
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15 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And | 2
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5
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9
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12
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15 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
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16 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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17 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a | 2
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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17 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July | | 2
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5
6
7
8
9
10
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18 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement. | 2
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6
7
8
9
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12
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18 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said. | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
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19 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes | 2
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6
7
8
9
10
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12
13
14
15
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17
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19 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said.
Okay? | | 2
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7
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20 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes
making sure that you understand what what governs | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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20 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said.
Okay?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I understand. | | 2
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21 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes
making sure that you understand what what governs
our conversation today. The most important part of | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
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12
13
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15
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21 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said.
Okay?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I understand.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Other than that, | | 2
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22 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes
making sure that you understand what what governs
our conversation today. The most important part of
this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation | 2
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8
9
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20 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said.
Okay?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I understand.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Other than that,
you I I know you didn't have a lot of time this | | 2
3
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6
7
8
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21 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes
making sure that you understand what what governs
our conversation today. The most important part of
this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation
agreement, meaning that by you meeting with us today, | 2
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8
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22 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said.
Okay?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I understand.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Other than that,
you I I know you didn't have a lot of time this
morning to meet with with Mr. Markus, but | | 2
3
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7
8
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10
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23 | I'm counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell.
MELISSA MADRIGAL: My name is
Melissa Madrigal and I'm counsel for Ghislaine
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I'm I'm
Ghislaine Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning,
Mr. Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE: Good. Okay. So before we
started recording, we met for a few minutes. I
introduced myself and we we've chatted and now
I've told you that we were going on the record. And
before we start asking questions, I know that you've
been given, by your lawyer, a copy of what's called a
proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes
making sure that you understand what what governs
our conversation today. The most important part of
this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
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11
12
13
14
15
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21
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23 | truthful.
The other exception to this, that doesn't
necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever
was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a
a criminal case a future criminal case against
you, and your lawyer or you said something different
or took a position that's different than what you say
today, we can then cross examine you or a witness,
based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I
can't use what you say against you in our case in
chief. However, if you were to testify or if your
lawyer called a witness to testify, and they said
something that is totally different than what you say
today, we could then cross examine you or the witness
and say, hey, do you remember when we met with
Ms. Wax when we met with Ms. Maxwell back in July
of 2025? She told us and then say what she said.
Okay?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I understand.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Other than that,
you I I know you didn't have a lot of time this | ![](_page_1_Picture_1.jpeg) 2 (Pages 2 to 5) | | Page 6 | | Page 8 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did. | 1 | that I want to ask you, but I'm not if there's a | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. All right. So I've | 2 | path that a question that I'm not asking, that you | | 3 | already signed it, as has Special Agent Horn | 3 | think should be asked, I I invite you to | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 4 | volunteer. Same thing goes to your lawyers. | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: and Mr. Markus signed it | 5 | Just to start a little bit very briefly, | | 6 | as well. So you got a pen, please sign it | 6 | can you talk about when you first met Mr. Epstein. I | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right here? | 7 | know that goes back a while. And just very generally | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: right where it says | 8 | talk about your relationship with Mr. Epstein, from | | 9 | "client." Yes. | 9 | the time you met him all the way up until until | | 10 | And I will provide a copy of this to to | 10 | his death. | | 11 | your lawyer so you guys have it. | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met Mr. Epstein in | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. | 12 | 1991. My I had I had never heard of him or met | | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay, thank you. | 13 | him before. And no one in my family had ever either. | | 14 | So Ms. Maxwell, about a week and a half | 14 | My father never knew him. And I'll explain why that | | 15 | ago or two weeks ago | 15 | is the case. I met | | 16 | SPENCER HORN: Can you see the light | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Where did you where | | 17 | blinking on there? On the Sony? Yeah, there it is. | 17 | where did you meet him? | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. We're just confirming | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I had a girlfriend | | 19 | that it works and it does. | 19 | who I I was yeah. I had moved to America, | | 20 | Ms. Maxwell, I guess about a week and a | 20 | briefly, in well, I'd moved to America in 1990. | | 21 | half or two weeks ago, Mr. Markus reached out to me | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 22 | and said that that you wanted to speak with | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I well "moved," | | 23 | somebody from the government about, not only your | 23 | that's a big word. I'd come to visit America in | | 24 | case, but about everything that's been in the media | 24 | 1990. I had been running my own company up until | | 25 | and that's been publicized about Mr. Epstein in your | 25 | that time, which was a company called Maxwell's | | | | | | | | Page 7 | | Page 9 | | 1 | Page 7 case. | 1 | Page 9
Corporate Gifts. | | 1
2 | | 1 2 | | | | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he | | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was | | 2 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's | 2 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father | | 2
3
4
5 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if | 2
3 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching, | | 2
3
4
5
6 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone, | 2
3
4 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America, | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him, | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak
to anybody. And I offered myself and I kept asking, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to
work for him. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak
to anybody. And I offered myself and I kept asking,
if they would meet with me, so I could talk to them | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to
work for him.
So in 1990, I had come over to New York, | | 2
3
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6
7
8
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13
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15
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20
21 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak
to anybody. And I offered myself and I kept asking,
if they would meet with me, so I could talk to them
and for whatever reason | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
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20
21 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to
work for him.
So in 1990, I had come over to New York,
to help look at some of that. He was having some | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak
to anybody. And I offered myself and I kept asking,
if they would meet with me, so I could talk to them
and for whatever reason
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to
work for him.
So in 1990, I had come over to New York,
to help look at some of that. He was having some
advertising issues with the New York Daily News. And | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22
23 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak
to anybody. And I offered myself and I kept asking,
if they would meet with me, so I could talk to them
and for whatever reason
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: that was not | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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19
20
21
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23 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to
work for him.
So in 1990, I had come over to New York,
to help look at some of that. He was having some
advertising issues with the New York Daily News. And
in fact, I met I may have met Donald Trump at that | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | case.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's
TODD BLANCHE: Did he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true and I did
speak to him and I did ask him if , and did tell
him that I would be very keen to talk to anyone,
because no one from the government, at any time, ever
in the since the inception of the case, so dating
back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me, and
indeed, I believe ever reached out to me at any time
to even speak to me. And that includes up to when I
was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that or I understand, I
should say, rather, that my attorneys, at the time,
did tell the government that I wanted to speak to
them, because I was very keen to meet with anyone, so
that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem to to speak
to anybody. And I offered myself and I kept asking,
if they would meet with me, so I could talk to them
and for whatever reason
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father
at the time. I had multiple jobs with him. I was
in 1990 I was working with a a new company of his,
a new a new newspaper that he was launching,
called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a
magazine to go with the The European. And I was
traveling at that time from England to America,
because my father was looking to well, he'd also
bought McMillan the the publishing house. And he
had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's truth that my father always
wanted me to come back, full time and work for him,
but that's a much longer story I don't think we need
to go into at this time.
So but I was always working with him.
There was no escaping it were as it were to to
work for him.
So in 1990, I had come over to New York,
to help look at some of that. He was having some
advertising issues with the New York Daily News. And | ![](_page_2_Picture_1.jpeg) 3 (Pages 6 to 9) | 1 | Page 10 | | Page 12 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | that he also very much liked Ivana, because she was | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: So okay. So that's how | | 2 | also from Czechoslovakia where my dad was from. | 2 | you meet him. So we and again, I don't want to | | 3 | So I don't I don't remember if I did | 3 | spend a lot of time, you know, on on this | | 4 | meet him or not in 1990 with my dad, but I knew that | 4 | particular issue, but what happened with your | | 5 | that's how I knew about, about Mr. Trump. | 5 | relationship over the years, from the time you meet | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: And this was before you | 6 | him in 1991, up until the time he he passed away? | | 7 | met | 7 | DAVID MARKUS: Just give the highlights. | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This was before I met | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay, the highlights. | | 9 | Mr. Epstein. | 9 | So I I was looking for real estate for my dad to | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Epstein? | 10 | buy some, and Epstein told me that he was also | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 11 | looking to move from his apartment and would I help | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. All right. | 12 | him? And I I said, sure I'm looking already so I | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I was already going | 13 | could look for him. So that's how it started. | | 14 | backwards and forwards in America. And then in April | 14 | And then, in 1991, my father passed away | | 15 | of 1991, I came to New York, but, I can't remember | 15 | and I returned to New York after that, originally to | | 16 | for what reason what business reason, but there | 16 | come back and help with the family businesses, which | | 17 | was a business reason something to do with my dad | 17 | was McMillan. | | 18 | at that time. | 18 | And then the debacle of my father's | | 19 | And a girlfriend of mine who an | 19 | passing hit the family. And and we lost all our | | 20 | American, told me I I I had broken up with my | 20 | businesses and my family thought that it would be | | 21 | long I'd been engaged, getting my the very | 21 | best if I stayed in America, because of the intensity | | 22 | long-term boyfriend and we'd broken up. | 22 | of the press and the drama surrounding my father's | | 23 | And she said, I've got you know, as | 23 | death in England | | 24 | your girlfriends do, I've got a guy for you to meet. | 24 | So I stayed and Epstein said, well, you | | 25 | And I was like, who is it? And she goes, it's | 25 | can keep helping me. You can help me find a house and | | | | | | | | Page 11 | | Page 13 | | 1 | Page 11
he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's | 1 | Page 13
we can decorate the house. And it gave me something | | 2 | | 2 | - | | 2
3 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment | 2
3 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic | | 2
3
4 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things. | 2
3
4 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends? | | 2
3
4
5 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him. | 2
3
4
5 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends. | | 2
3
4
5
6 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in | 2
3
4
5
6 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew
nothing about him. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew
nothing about him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal
sense was, you know, employed by the any agency. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew
nothing about him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I he just invited | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal
sense was, you know, employed by the any agency.
But when you are a very significant businessman and | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew
nothing about him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I he just invited
me to come and have tea, and I was like tea, that's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal
sense was, you know, employed by the any agency.
But when you are a very significant businessman and
politician, as my father was, you meet with people | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22
23 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew
nothing about him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I he just invited
me to come and have tea, and I was like tea, that's
English. Okay. But what was unusual, was in his | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal
sense was, you know, employed by the any agency.
But when you are a very significant businessman and
politician, as my father was, you meet with people
over time and you, I guess trade business or ideas. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22 | he's been dating my sister. You'll love him. He's
looking for a wife. I'm edging towards 30. I don't
need to tell you guys, That's a very important moment
for a girl to, like, think about important things.
And sure, I'd be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991 now. We are in
1991, I met him at his offices in on Madison
Garden. And I think the most memorable thing I can
think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he
didn't often do. It had a giant, seemed like a
ketchup stain on it. So I was like, wow, okay. And
that was how we met.
TODD BLANCHE: Was your meeting at his
office for you to meet him just personally or were
you were you there for
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was just
TODD BLANCHE: work related reasons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I knew
nothing about him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I he just invited
me to come and have tea, and I was like tea, that's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | we can decorate the house. And it gave me something
to do.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you in a romantic
relationship with him at this point or just friends?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, just friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And while we're just
with respect to your father, there have been multiple
questions about whether he worked for any
intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think well
certainly my father had a background in intelligence
during because he was I believe he did in the
second World War. He was an intelli a British
intelligence officer. I think that, my sort of
belief is that once you've been an intelligence
officer, you're kind of always; it doesn't mean
that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal
sense was, you know, employed by the any agency.
But when you are a very significant businessman and
politician, as my father was, you meet with people | г ![](_page_3_Picture_1.jpeg) 4 (Pages 10 to 13) Γ | | Page 14 | | Page 16 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | Now he certainly, I have no formal | 1 | had a connection with Epstein. He had a connection | | 2 | knowledge of anything specifically that he did in | 2 | with the bank. I mean, Epstein, I'd never heard of | | 3 | that thing, but if you're asking me if I thought that | 3 | him or knew of him before. And I certainly if my | | 4 | he did help people, the answer would be yes, I did. | 4 | dad had known him, right, when I said, this is who he | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Did your father and Mr. | 5 | was, he didn't know who he was. | | 6 | Epstein have a business relationship over the years? | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | | 7 | I know we're maybe jumping around a little bit. | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So he rang Ace and he | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They never met. So | 8 | rang Jimmy, to ask if it was okay that I even knew | | | TODD BLANCHE: As far as you know, they | 9 | | | 9
10 | | 10 | him. And I just want to explain, briefly why my | | 11 | never even met? | 11 | father would even do such a thing. | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I I | | I've had some some interesting things | | | TODD BLANCHE: or you know they never | 12 | that have happened in my life. And one of them was | | 13 | met? | 13 | to be found on an IRA kidnap and murder list. And so | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I know they never met. | 14 | after that happened well, there were other | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, how do you know they | 15 | related I'm not going to bore you with all the | | 16 | never met? | 16 | horrible things in that vein, but I if you want | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They just | 17 | the details, of course I can. | | 18 | categorically know they never met. Well, because | 18 | But after that happened, my father wanted | | 19 | after, in 1991, before my father died, he asked me if | 19 | to put a lot of protection on me, obviously. And I | | 20 | I'd met anybody interesting or whatever, you know, | 20 | declined on the grounds that that would be a very | | 21 | because I was still trying not to be sucked back into | 21 | life-restricting event. You are all in law | | 22 | the family business. | 22 | enforcement, I know you understand this. | | 23 | And I told him that I had met Mr. Epstein. | 23 | And so he had told me that, you know, I | | 24 | And the reason why I shared that I'd met Mr. Epstein, | 24 | would be taking my life in my own hands and then | | 25 | because I believed, at that time, that Epstein worked | 25 | whatever. And so I think after that event and | | 1 | | | | | | Page 15 | | Page 17 | | 1 | | 1 | | | 1 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our | 1 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that | | 2 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with | 2 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of | | 2
3 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg. | 2
3 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and | | 2
3
4 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in | 2
3
4 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything | | 2
3
4
5 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't | 2
3
4
5 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous. | | 2
3
4
5
6 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I | 2
3
4
5
6 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird, | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible) | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't even know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So we might come back and | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't even know
who he was. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So we might come back and
touch a little bit more on that at some point, but | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't even know
who he was.
TODD BLANCHE: But they had they | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So we might come back and
touch a little bit more on that at some point, but
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't even know
who he was.
TODD BLANCHE: But they had they
they knew some of the same people, it sounds like, or | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So we might come back and
touch a little bit more on that at some point, but
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: I went down a rabbit | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22
23 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't even know
who he was.
TODD BLANCHE: But they had they
they knew some of the same people, it sounds like, or
certainly the Bear Stearns connection was something | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So we might come back and
touch a little bit more on that at some point, but
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: I went down a rabbit
hole for a minute. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our
banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with
both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad came was actually in
New York, I think. If I remem I may I don't
think I had this conversation on the phone, but I
I honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not
sure.
But if I I maybe I told him this
verbatim, because it happened I know that what my
dad did, whether I saw it or whether I he did it
and told me later I that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace
Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and
was he even allowed to because (indiscernible)
so
TODD BLANCHE: So they never they never
met.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't even know
who he was.
TODD BLANCHE: But they had they
they knew some of the same people, it sounds like, or | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | several others, where I had stalkers and all that
thing that one has, he was always quite protective of
me. And so if I met somebody, he would try and
verify that they weren't going to do anything
hideous.
And so in case he thought it was weird,
that he would call Jimmy and and Ace it
might you know, you may think it is but in my
from my perspective, he was just because he was
concerned, I was in America alone and he had an
opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room
with him, I don't recall. But I know that at some
point my father told me he's fine. You can see him.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He's safe.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So we might come back and
touch a little bit more on that at some point, but
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: I went down a rabbit | ![](_page_4_Picture_3.jpeg) 5 (Pages 14 to 17) | | Page 18 | | Page 20 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: No, that's helpful. | 1 | then. | | 1 2 | | 2 | So he had this house and I had moved into | | | Thank you. | 3 | | | 3 | So okay. So you're you're now in | 4 | a 10 foot by 10 foot apartment, because all of our
stuff had been either lost or frozen or or | | 4 | the '90s and you're friends with Mr. Epstein. Your | - | | | 5 | house decorating the house or the apartment. | 5 | whatever. | | 6 | What what happens with your | - | So he became, in this moment, my life | | 7 | relationship? Again, I know we're talking about a | 7 | line, really, because I was everything wasfelt | | 8 | 35-year time period or whatever, but to the extent | 8 | very similar to this moment, if that makes sense. | | 9 | you can kind of, at a very high level, talk about it. | 9 | Anyway, so but I had no key to his house. | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Listen, I think just | 10 | I had no free access to his house. And in the entire | | 11 | full disclosure is the best way to go at this point. | 11 | time that he lived there, which was I believe until, | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 12 | the beginning of 1996, I never slept a single night | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So in 1992, I slept | 13 | in that house. Never ever. Not one. | | 14 | with him one time and I was like, whoa, that's it. | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: But you so you you | | 15 | We're going to be dating, because that's how I | 15 | you said a minute ago that the that you had slept | | 16 | thought. And and I kind of thought of myself in | 16 | with him on one occasion, and at the time you | | 17 | that moment. Like, because you, I felt if you slept | 17 | remember thinking, you know, that this meant you were | | 18 | with someone, that you were then dating them. | 18 | in a relationship, but then it didn't you really | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 19 | were not in that type of relationship. | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's the world I | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I thought | | 21 | came from. But that really was well, that's how I | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Did that change over | | 22 | thought. And but we didn't sleep together again | 22 | between '91 and '92 or whatever and and and | | 23 | for, I don't know, really a significant period of | 23 | years forward? | | 24 | time. And when I say | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I did travel with | | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Like years or? | 25 | him a lot. | | | | | | | | Page 19 | | Page 21 | | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2 | | 1
2 | | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time. | | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his | | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house | | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio. | | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's
ridiculous. Of course I can afford, and he rented | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or
even just traveling, if if if it was just | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's
ridiculous. Of course I can afford, and he rented
it. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or
even just traveling, if if if it was just
traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's
ridiculous. Of course I can afford, and he rented
it.
And that house came with it was a State | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or
even just traveling, if if if it was just
traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed.
So sleep in the same bed with him. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's
ridiculous. Of course I can afford, and he rented
it.
And that house came with it was a State
Department house, because it was I think that was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or
even just traveling, if if if it was just
traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed.
So sleep in the same bed with him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's
ridiculous. Of course I can afford, and he rented
it.
And that house came with it was a State
Department house, because it was.
And I I put it back together, but there
were certain rules, you couldn't paint, because it | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or
even just traveling, if if if it was just
traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed.
So sleep in the same bed with him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if it was
a year. I don't it feels that feels long, but
maybe nine months, I mean, a long time.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want to go
back to I had found a house for him to rent in
New York, because he had asked me I had been
looking at one for my father, and I found one, which
was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was. I
think it belonged to the Iranians, or the Iraqis or
someone.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I didn't know that
he had any money. It was like, I want to say it was
\$12,000 a month, which to me seemed like a fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't
think you can afford it. He was like, that's
ridiculous. Of course I can afford, and he rented
it.
And that house came with it was a State
Department house, because it was I think that was
under sequestration or whatever it was.
And I I put it back together, but there | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I would go to his
houses in Palm Beach. He only had that house
actually in no, that's not true. He had the house
in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: In where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ohio.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had the house
in Ohio because of his business relationship with
Mr. Wexner. And he had a and I had to go and
decorate and put that house together. When we
traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not
in but I didn't
TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. It's okay, talk.
So you you stayed so when you would
travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or
even just traveling, if if if it was just
traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed.
So sleep in the same bed with him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Epstein told me that | ![](_page_5_Picture_1.jpeg) 6 (Pages 18 to 21) | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heart condition. 2 DAVID MARKUS: Heart condition. 3 TODD BLANCHE: A heart condition. Which 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which meant that he 6 because I actually do have a medical condition, which 7 provende him from having intercourse regularly? 8 TODD BLANCHE: So what - what was your 9 understanding of his heart condition. and why that 9 prevented him from having intercourse regularly? 10 Follow of his heart condition. 11 himself had told due that they were not together, up until, I think '94, when at some point, in that 9 understanding of his heart condition. 11 nearcel, I think in '94. 12 Inform having intercourse regularly? 13 TODD BLANCHE: So what - what was your 14 Were going to obviously spend some 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 16 to that. So pick up where you - where you were 16 to that. So pick up where you - where you were 16 that time, you - I believe eval wait han house - 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there yougo. 18 | | Page 22 | | Page 24 | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----|------------------------------------------------------|-----|-------------------------------------------------------| | 2 DAVID MARKUS: Heart condition. 2 I don't - I don't think that was true. In fact, I 3 TODD BLANCHE: A heart condition. When 5 idin't have intercourse a lot, which suited me fine, 5 because I catually do have a medical condition, when 5 inthin Y4, when at some point, in that 7 precludes me having a lot of intercourse. and they got 9 understanding of his heart condition, when 5 9 understanding of his heart condition, when 1 9 understanding of his heart condition, when 1 10 prevented him form having intercourse regularly? 1 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, 11 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 12 14 We're going to obviously spend some 14 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduce the was 14 16 accused of. So we'll - 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I Cokay. 17 18 TODD BLANCHE: - we'll around '96. At 16 14 page 23 Page 23 14 TODD BLANCHE: Cokay. 11 15 1 - | 1 | | | - | | 3 TODD BLANCHE: A heart condition. Okay. know it's not true. So they were sill together, up until, Hink 94, when at some point, in that 6 didn't have intercourse a lot, which suited me fine, married, I think 94, when at some point, in that 7 TODD BLANCHE: So what - what was your married, I think 94, when at some point, in that 9 restore and the condition on why that precludes me having a lot of intercourse 10 prevented him from having intercourse regularly? ToDD BLANCHE: So what - what was your 11 MeltisLAINE MAXWELL: 1 don't know. I mean, 11 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 12 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 13 14 Were going to obviously spend some 14 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 16 plane. 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 18 to that. So pick up where you - where you avere 19 19 to that. So pick up where you - where you were 10 20 taking about you traveling around with him, he 21 21 the like you - the like you savi at the was 100 the dowe yow, show the now | | | | | | 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which mean that be 4 until, I think '94, when at some point, in that period of time, Eva met Glenn and they got married. I think in '94. 7 precludes me having a lot of intercourse. 1 I don't remember when they got married. 9 understanding of his heart condition and why that precludes me having intercourse regularly? 1 I don't remember when they got married. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, 11 1 I don't remember when they got married. 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 11 11 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 12 12 14 We're going to obviously spend some 15 16 and you arresteh hin, 1 don't know if this is 14 TODD BLANCHE: - we'll - we'll come back. 17 Now, I think that either I read it in the - 15 to that. So pick up where you - where you were 18 somewhere. But even if she wasn't on the plane, 18 14 TODD BLANCHE: - we'll around '96. At 12 18 - Now, I think that either I read it in the - 12 that time, you - I believe evan said that he was 18 - in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 18 | | | | | | | 1 | | | | | 6 because I actually do have a medical condition, which 7 married, I think in '94. 7 TODD BLANCHE: So what we have tays your 9 9 understanding of his heart condition and why that 9 prevented him from having intercourse. 10 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, 11 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 11 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 12 14 Were going to obviously spend some 14 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 16 accused of. So we'll - 10 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 10 18 to that. So pick up where you where you were 11 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 10 14 TODD BLANCHE: | | | - | | | 7 precludes me having a lot of intercourse. 7 I don't remember when they got married. 8 TODD BLANCHE: So what what was your 9 9 understanding of his hear condition and why that 9 10 prevented him from having intercourse regularly? 10 11 GHISLANE MAXWELL: I don't know. 10 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 11 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 12 14 Were going to obviously spend some 14 15 time a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 16 plane. 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 18 rot obt. Komer frainal flouse 18 19 somekhere. But even if she wasn't on the plane, 18 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you gous 18 21 basically your life, like you were with him pretty 12 he time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 22 basically your life, like was the would be a 14 inder the way of this have the mails. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 14 hont figulary. | | , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | | | | 8 TODD BLANCHE: So what what was your 8 but her, she was his best friend and his everything, 9 understanding of his heart condition and why that 9 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, 11 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 11 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 13 14 We're going to obviously spend some 15 15 time a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 16 accused of. So we'll 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'l | | • | | | | 9 understanding of his heart condition and why that 9 he told me that he always wished that he had married 10 prevented him from having intercourse regularly? 10 her and had a child with her. 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 12 her and had a child with her. 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 12 her and had a child with her. 14 We're going to obviously spend some 14 true or not. When he came from – back from Paris 14 me or the data (and think even – I'm not 16 plane. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 16 plane. 18 TODD BLANCHE: | 1 | · • | · · | | | 10 prevented him from having intercourse regularly? 10 her and had a child with her. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean. 11 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 12 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 12 14 We're going to obviously spend some 14 15 time a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 16 accused of. So we'll 16 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll we'll come back. 18 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 19 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 21 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, three you so: 22 23 Yeah. 22 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 23 25 that time, you1 believe you said that was 25 24 TODD BLANCHE: Solay. 26 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sol I never was with 6 Fage 23 | | | | | | 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, like of the forms of sexual activities. 11 And I know that they she was family for him for his whole like. And I think there were - I'm not sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the plane. 12 him for his whole like. And I think there were - I'm not sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the plane. 13 TODD BLANCHE:wellwell come back. 14 true or not. When he came from back from Paris at the same time and going to fly to that. So pick up where you where you were 10 that is obst you traveling around with him, he 11 rented the New York, former Iranian House 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 14 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mean, at the guardy. 19 the time, not sure but show that now, because I can see if orm the fly logs and I know it now 16 him regularly. 17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 18 GHISLAINE MAXW | | | | | | 12 he liked other forms of sexual activities. 12 him for his whole life. And I think even - I'm not sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 13 sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is 14 We're going to obviously spend some 14 it rue or not. When he came from - back from Paris 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the 16 accused of. So we'll we'll orme back 16 plane. Now, I think that either I read it in the 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 18 | | · · · · · | | | | 13 TODD BLANCHE: Well, let's come back. 13 sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is 14 We're going to obviously spend some 14 15 time a lot of time on the actual conduct he was and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the 16 accused of. So we'll 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll - we'll come back 18 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 19 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 21 rented the New York, former Iranian House 20 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you so 21 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 22 0 nor or the other, I don't know which one 24 TODD BLANCHE: Way. 24 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't know at TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with him regularly. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't know1 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: T hat is one of those more of him, hou would count in m | | , | | | | 14 We're going to obviously spend some 14 true or not. When he came from back from Paris and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the plane. 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 16 accused of. So we'll - 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll we'll come back 18 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 18 10 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 11 rented the New York, former Iranian House 21 12 ofHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 22 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 26 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. And so I also know now, which I didn't 4 know at the time, was that he saw tols of other women. And I know that now, because I can seeI 2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of thoes 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 2 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 06 | | | | | | 15 time - a lot of time on the actual conduct he was 15 and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the 16 accused of. So we'll - 15 and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 16 plane. 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll we'll come back 16 plane. 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 18 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 18 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 21 rented the New York, former Iranian House 20 back. 23 Yeah. 20 Doe or the other, I don't know which one 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 24 3 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 24 3 One or the other, I don't know which one 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout 25 that time, you - I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout 26 regre 23 Page 23 Page 25 27 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 | | | | | | 16 accused of. So we'll - 16 plane. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 Now, I think that either I read it in the 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll we'll come back 19 somewhere. But even if she wasn't on the plane, 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 19 somewhere. But even if she wasn't on the plane, 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 there must have been some email communication where 21 she was in Paris at the same time and going to fly back. 22 23 Yeah. 23 Yeah. 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 23 Deace 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout 24 26 TODD BLANCHE: - wasn't him pretty regularly. 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 10. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't know at the time, was that be saw lots of other 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 10. 7 < | | | | | | 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 17 Now, I think that either I read it in the 18 TODD BLANCHE: where you were 18 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 21 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there youg. 20 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 23 Yeah. | | | | • | | 18 TODD BLANCHE: we'll we'll come back 18 in the discovery that I received, or I saw it 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were 19 somewhere. But even if she wasn't on the plane, 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 there must have been some email communication where 21 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 there must have been some email communication where 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 22 back. 23 Yeah. 23 One or the other, I don't know which one 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 is the correct version of that. But so they were 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout 28 Page 23 Page 25 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. And so I also know now, which I didn't 4 Know at the time, was that he saw lots of other 5 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 5 6 misnomers. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I man, at the 10 | | | | | | 19 to that. So pick up where you where you were talking about you traveling around with him, he 19 somewhere. But even if she wasn't on the plane, there must have been some email communication where 20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 20 23 Yeah. 20 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 21 26 basically your life, like you were with him pretty Page 23 27 regularly. 23 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 7 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 21 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 16 6 him regularly. 2 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 21 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 3 9 misnomers. 0 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 10 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 14 May and I would count in my head when I would see 11 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 GHISL | | | | | | 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 20 talking about you traveling around with him, he 21 rented the New York, former Iranian House 21 she was in Paris at the same time and going to fly 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 22 back. 23 Yeah. 23 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 26 basically your life, like you were with him pretty regularly. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 1 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 1 the time, was that he saw lots of other 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those misomoers. 7 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 TODD BLANCHE: New. 7 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know +- 14 modu count that I would count in my head when I would see | | | | | | 21 rented the New York, former Iranian House 21 she was in Paris at the same time and going to fly 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 22 back. 23 Yeah. 22 Doe or the other, I don't know which one 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 is the correct version of that. But so they were 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout 24 TODD BLANCHE: Well, I no. Page 23 Page 25 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a lot. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 4 him regularly. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 9 9 misnomers. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: So, you know from +- 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know 13 offiesLAINE MAXWELL: I nean | | | | | | 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Iranian, there you go. 22 back. 23 Yeah. 23 One or the other, I don't know which one 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 23 One or the other, I don't know which one 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 24 Still obviously very close and remained throughout 26 Page 23 Page 25 1 basically your life, like you were with him pretty 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 2 Ithim regularly. 1 the time, was that he saw lots of other 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 4 know at the time, was that he saw lots of other 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 6 Him, regularly. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Nat. 7 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 9 9 misnomers. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 11 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I set in the was with would see 11 11 TODD BLANCHE: Nokay 11 GHISLAINE | | | | | | 23 Yeah. 23 One or the other, I don't know which one 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 is the correct version of that. But so they were 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 Page 23 And so I also know now, which I didn't Kanow at the time, In fact, he he was still saw her a 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 9 misnomers. 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the < | | , | | | | 24 TODD BLANCHE: until around '96. At 24 is the correct version of that. But so they were 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout Page 23 Page 23 Page 25 1 basically your life, like you were with him pretty regularly. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 3 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 6 him regularly. 3 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 7 9 misnomers. 7 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 7 9 misnomers. 7 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 7 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 14 him, and I would count in my head when I would see 15 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, | | | | | | 25 that time, you I believe you said that he was 25 still obviously very close and remained throughout Page 23 Page 23 Page 25 1 basically your life, like you were with him pretty 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 2 regularly. 2 lot. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 know at the time, was that he saw lots of other 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 6 inm regularly. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 because I can see from the flight logs and I know it now 9 misnomers. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 9 9 misnomers. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: So, you dino't know 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 TODD BLANCHE: Yes, I didn't know 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I | | | | | | Page 23 Page 23 1 basically your life, like you were with him pretty
regularly. 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 6 him regularly. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 know at the time, was that he saw lots of other 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 9 misnomers. 9 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from 13 Office. So I would go to the office and I would see 14 TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along 14 him, and I would count that I would that would be a 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, 16 absolutely did not know. 17 regulary TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and 18 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't | | | | | | 1 basically your life, like you were with him pretty regularly. 1 the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a lot. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. 1 And so I also know now, which I didn't 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 3 And so I also know now, which I didn't 6 him regularly. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 4 6 him regularly. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 5 women. And I know that now, because I can see I 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 can see if from the flight logs and I know it now 9 misnomers. 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 6 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: So, you know from the 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along 14 him, and I would see him. But I didn't I never, 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I 15 I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what 18 We're going to spend time on everything you're | 25 | that time, you I believe you said that he was | 25 | still obviously very close and remained throughout | | 2regularly.2lot.3GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no.3And so I also know now, which I didn't4TODD BLANCHE: Okay.3Know at the time, was that he saw lots of other5GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with6know at the time, was that he saw lots of other6him regularly.5GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those77TODD BLANCHE: Okay.6can see it from the flight logs and I know it now9misnomers.9case10TODD BLANCHE: Okay.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the11TODD BLANCHE: that what happened.12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: Yes, I didn't know +14him. I would count in my head when I would see13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20picture of your relationship.20So we're now in the late '90s, continue on21thimk about 10 years. Page 23Page 25 | | Page 23 | | Page 25 | | 3GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no.3And so I also know now, which I didn't4TODD BLANCHE: Okay.4know at the time, was that he saw lots of other5GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with5women. And I know that now, because I can see I6him regularly.6can see it from the flight logs and I know it now7TODD BLANCHE: Okay.7because I can see from the emails.8GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those7TODD BLANCHE: Okay.9misnomers.9Case10TODD BLANCHE: Okay.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the11TODD BLANCHE: that what happened.12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know +-14him, and I would count in my head when I would see14the way.15him. I would count that I would that would be a15GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19taking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20So we're now in the late '90s, continue on21think about 10 years.Ym not sure, but that's2223what I th | 1 | basically your life, like you were with him pretty | 1 | the time. In fact, he he was still saw her a | | 4 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 4 know at the time, was that he saw lots of other 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 5 women. And I know that now, because I can see I 6 him regularly. 6 can see it from the flight logs and I know it now 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 because I can see from the emails. 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 8 TODD BLANCHE: So, you know from the 9 misnomers. 9 case 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: Yes, not from 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know +- 14 him, and I would count in my head when I would see 14 the way. 15 him. I would count that I would that would be a 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, 16 absolutely did not know. 17 rODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and we're going to spend time on everything you're 19 I didn't k | 2 | regularly. | 2 | lot. | | 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with 5 women. And I know that now, because I can see I 6 him regularly. 6 can see it from the flight logs and I know it now 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 because I can see from the emails. 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 8 TODD BLANCHE: So, you know from the 9 misnomers. 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 10 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: that what happened. 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along 14 him, and I would count in my head when I would see 14 the way. 15 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, 16 absolutely did not know. 17 19 I didn't know was that I think he was still with his 19 10 can ageing to spend time on everything you're 11 14 I didn't know was | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I no. | 3 | And so I also know now, which I didn't | | 6him regularly.6can see it from the flight logs and I know it now7TODD BLANCHE: Okay.7because I can see from the emails.8GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those9misnomers.9misnomers.9case10TODD BLANCHE: Okay.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the11TODD BLANCHE: that what happened.12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along14him, and I would count in my head when I would see14the way.15him. I would count that I would that would be a15GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20picture of your relationship.21EvaThey had been together, my understanding,21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23wat I think, 10 years.23 | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 4 | know at the time, was that he saw lots of other | | 7 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 7 because I can see from the emails. 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 9 9 misnomers. 9 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 12 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 14 him, and I would count in my head when I would see 14 15 him. I would count that I would that would be a 15 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, 16 17 ever stayed with him. 17 18 I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what 18 19 I didn't know was that I think he was still with his 19 20 actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became 20 21 Eva They had been together, my understanding, 22 what I think, 10 years. 10 23 what I think, 10 years. 23 | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I never was with | 5 | women. And I know that now, because I can see I | | 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those 8 TODD BLANCHE: So, you know from the 9 misnomers. 9 case 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the 11 TODD BLANCHE: that what happened. 12 beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know 13 office. So I would go to the office and I would see 13 TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along 14 him, and I would count in my head when I would see 14 the way. 15 him. I would count that I would that would be a 15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I 16 day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, 16 absolutely did not know. 17 ever stayed with him. 17 TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and 18 I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what 18 we're going to spend time on everything you're 19 I didn't know was Eva Andersson, who became 20 picture of your relationship. 21 Eva They had been together, my understanding, 21 So we're now in the la | 6 | him regularly. | 6 | can see it from the flight logs and I know it now | | 9misnomers.9case10TODD BLANCHE: Okay.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the11TODD BLANCHE: that what happened.12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along14him, and I would count in my head when I would see14the way.15him. I would count that I would that would be a15GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20So we're now in the late '90s, continue on21EvaThey had been together, my understanding,21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23wat I think, 10 years.23 | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 7 | because I can see from the emails. | | 10TODD BLANCHE: Okay.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the11TODD BLANCHE: that what happened.12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along14him, and I would count in my head when I would see14TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20picture of your relationship.21EvaSo we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23with, again, staying high level to the extent you23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is one of those | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: So, you know from the | | 11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, at the11TODD BLANCHE: that what happened.12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along14him, and I would count in my head when I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along15him. I would count that I would that would be a15GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20picture of your relationship.21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on21EvaI'm not sure, but that's22with, again, staying high level to the extent you23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | 9 | misnomers. | 9 | case | | 12beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along14him, and I would count in my head when I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along15him. I would count that I would that would be a14the way.16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20picture of your relationship.21EvaThey had been together, my understanding,21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, not from | | 13office. So I would go to the office and I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along14him, and I would count in my head when I would see13TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along15him. I would count that I would that would be a14the way.16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,15GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I16absolutely did not know.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20picture of your relationship.21EvaTim not sure, but that's21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | | | | | | 14him, and I would count in my head when I would see14the way.15him. I would count that I would that would be a15GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20picture of your relationship.21EvaTim not sure, but that's21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | | beginning I did see more of him, but I worked in his | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I didn't know | | | | office. So I would go to the office and I would see | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: You didn't know that along | | 16day that I would see him. But I didn't I never,
ever stayed with him.16absolutely did not know.17ever stayed with him.17TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became20picture of your relationship.21EvaImage: They had been together, my understanding,21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23with, again, staying high level to the extent you | | him, and I would count in my head when I would see | | 2 | | | | | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I contemporaneously, I | | 18I believe certainly until '93 or '94, what18we're going to spend time on everything you're19I didn't know was that I think he was still with his18we're going to spend time on everything you're20actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became19talking about, but just to kind of close out the big21Eva10years. I'm not sure, but that's21So we're now in the late '90s, continue on23what I think, 10 years.23with, again, staying high level to the extent you | | day that I would see him. But I didn't I never, | | absolutely did not know. | |
  1. I didn't know was that I think he was still with his
  2. actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became
  3. Eva 1000.
  4. I think about 10 years. I'm not sure, but that's
  5. what I think, 10 years.
  6. I didn't know was that I think he was still with his
  7. actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became
  8. Eva 1000.
  9. I think about 10 years. I'm not sure, but that's
  10. what I think, 10 years.
  11. I think about 10 years.
  12. I think about 10 years.
  13. I think about 10 years.
  14. I think about 10 years.
  15. I think about 10 years.
  16. I think about 10 years.
  17. I think about 10 years.
  18. I think about 10 years.
  19. I think about 10 years.
  20. I think about 10 years.
  21. I think about 10 years.
  22. I think about 10 years.
  23. I think about 10 years.
  24. I think about 10 years.
  25. I think about 10 years.
| 17 | | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: So, okay so just and | | | | | 18 | | | 21Eva Eva Eva So we're now in the late '90s, continue on22I think about 10 years. I'm not sure, but that's22with, again, staying high level to the extent you23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | | | 19 | | | 22I think about 10 years. I'm not sure, but that's22with, again, staying high level to the extent you23what I think, 10 years.23can, about your relationship with him. | | actual girlfriend who was Eva Andersson, who became | | picture of your relationship. | | 23 what I think, 10 years. 23 can, about your relationship with him. | | Eva | | | | | | I think about 10 years. I'm not sure, but that's | 22 | with, again, staying high level to the extent you | | | | | | | | 24 And I had understood from my girlfriend 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So after so my | | , . | | | | 25 initially, that they weren't together and Epstein 25 responsibilities increased with each acquisition that | 25 | initially, that they weren't together and Epstein | 25 | responsibilities increased with each acquisition that | ![](_page_6_Picture_1.jpeg) 7 (Pages 22 to 25) | | Page 26 | | Page 28 | |----------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | he had and each new project. So I believe the first | 1 | you were not relying on him, the the \$25,000 or | | 2 | thing that he purchased after was the ranch in | 2 | whatever amount you were paid, were you relying on | | 3 | New Mexico. | 3 | that money to live and his generosity to live or did | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 4 | you have your own your own money. | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And so what he had | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there's a | | 6 | tasked me with up until that, and I think that was | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: And again, I I want to | | 7 | purchased in '94, if I'm right. So he had tasked me, | 7 | just make sure we're talking about that. Like | | 8 | one of the things that we did was visit, in my mind, | 8 | keeping it between like the late '90s, you know, | | 9 | I say every state, but it wouldn't have been every | 9 | maybe, I guess into a little of the 2000s. | | 10 | state, but many states, to go look at real estate | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I just want to hit | | 11 | property. | 11 | something on the head right now. There's a | | 12 | And so I know we went to Montana. I know | 12 | tremendous amount of reporting that said that I had a | | 13 | we went to Utah and it was it was to go look at | 13 | | | 14 | real estate. It was fun, to be honest. | 14 | LEAH SAFFIAN: A trust fund. | | 15 | And then I arranged for us to go to | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. A trust | | 16 | New Mexico and he just loved New Mexico. And then I | 16 | fund. I have never had a trust fund, at any time. | | 17 | don't remember how the ranch happened. I don't | 17 | DAVID MARKUS: So how did you live, did | | 18 | remember that now, it's lost. And then he ended up | 18 | you live with with I mean, \$25,000 is not | | 19 | buying the ranch. | 19 | enough to live on. | | 20 | And I think, if I'm right, it came from | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. So I had during | | 21 | well, the Kings who may have been the governor, I | 21 | this period of time, the secret secret, the | | 22 | you know, bought the ranch. And then I had to deal | 22 | Serious Fraud Squad had come to see me, in relation | | 23 | with that. Dealing with that was the extent of it. | 23 | to my father's passing, and to establish whether I | | 24 | The way that I thought of myself, or the | 24 | had been involved in any way with his business or | | 25 | way that I think is the best way to explain how I | 25 | with any shenanigans. | | | Page 27 | | Page 29 | | 1 | view my role, was as a general manager. Because each | 1 | I think I've told this story many | | 2 | property, to me was like a a hotel. | 2 | times, so I don't know if it's now somewhat | | 3 | So the ranch was very challenging, because | 3 | apocryphal, but I'll tell you what it my memory | | 4 | not only that, but it had BLM land, so to help | 4 | is. | | 5 | maintain your BLM, you have to have cattle and I love | 5 | So I received a letter from them that said | | 6 | animals. | 6 | about my business, and my memory may be apocryphal, | | 7 | And so the first thing, horses. And so I | 7 | there was a PS that said (unintelligible), I had | | 8 | wanted it, if you're going to have a ranch, I like | 8 | nothing. There was no I was never involved in any | | 9 | authenticity. And so I don't think you should have a | 9 | of his business, whatever, so I was free. | | 10 | ranch if you're not going to have the things that | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And were you so, but | | 11 | make it special. | 11 | your you know, obviously your your father and | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: So were you were you | 12 | your family had a lot of businesses. Did is it | | 13 | paid by him along the way | 13 | because the money, whatever money or whatever equity | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I | 14 | was in the businesses, just stayed with your other | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: during this time? | 15 | family members? | | 116 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I became I became | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there was no | | 16 | salaried at some point. | 17 | money. So my father was never attached to money. He | | 17 | | | | | 17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 18 | was born a peasant, a real one. Dirt floor, no | | 17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I my memory is | 19 | shoes, no clothes some clothes, but not, you know, | | 17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I my memory is
that I got paid \$25,000 a year to begin with. That's | 19
20 | shoes, no clothes some clothes, but not, you know, sorry, I don't mean to say nothing. | | 17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I my memory is
that I got paid \$25,000 a year to begin with. That's
my memory. I may be wrong. And then with each as | 19
20
21 | shoes, no clothes some clothes, but not, you know,
sorry, I don't mean to say nothing.
And he never he was never into that. I | | 17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I my memory is
that I got paid \$25,000 a year to begin with. That's
my memory. I may be wrong. And then with each as
it became obvious, because I kept thinking I was | 19
20
21
22 | shoes, no clothes some clothes, but not, you know,
sorry, I don't mean to say nothing.
And he never he was never into that. I
mean, there were things that he had his | | 17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I my memory is
that I got paid \$25,000 a year to begin with. That's
my memory. I may be wrong. And then with each as
it became obvious, because I kept thinking I was
going to go home; home being England. And but | 19
20
21
22
23 | shoes, no clothes some clothes, but not, you know,
sorry, I don't mean to say nothing.
And he never he was never into that. I
mean, there were things that he had his
extravagances, he loved his boat and his plane. So | | 17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I my memory is
that I got paid \$25,000 a year to begin with. That's
my memory. I may be wrong. And then with each as
it became obvious, because I kept thinking I was | 19
20
21
22 | shoes, no clothes some clothes, but not, you know,
sorry, I don't mean to say nothing.
And he never he was never into that. I
mean, there were things that he had his | ![](_page_7_Picture_1.jpeg) 8 (Pages 26 to 29) | | Page 30 | | Page 32 | |----------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | came to any of us, at any time, ever. | 1 | say you realized kind of it was over? | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So so when you | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I mean, I'm | | 3 | are talking about your life with Mr. Epstein in the | 3 | talking about the the I had had, there was a | | 4 | '90s, you you're you're not you you're | 4 | I had wanted to get married and have children. | | 5 | very different financially. You you're very | 5 | And Epstein had encouraged me to believe | | 6 | different financially positioned than he is | 6 | that that would I don't know about the | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. | 7 | certainly by the mid late '90s, I knew the marriage | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: meaning he's giving you | 8 | part was never going to happen. I had believed that | | 9 | money, he's paying for your when you fly, he I | 9 | maybe in '96, '97, '98 maybe, but then I realized it | | 10 | assume pays for your flights. | 10 | wasn't that. But I did think that we might have a | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 11 | child, which is what I had really wanted. And I | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. So you you | 12 | realized | | 13 | I interrupted you when you were saying how you | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: So so okay. So what | | 14 | were functioning as a general manager. You helped | 14 | happens between 2001 and then 2019 with your | | 15 | with the New Mexico ranch. | 15 | relationship with him? | | 16 | So did did your role with him continue | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So | | 17 | like that for many years or for how long? | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Give or take, 2001. | | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I continued in | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we stopped having | | 19 | 2000 well, in by 1999, our relationship had | 19 | physicality. I mean, that doesn't mean we weren't | | 20 | foundered. In | 20 | friends. I certainly did stay, sometimes, in his | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Why? | 21 | room. I mean, friends with benefits, if you will, | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I well, two | 22 | just not sex. Sorry. | | 23 | reasons: We were never sleeping together again. So | 23 | And I started dating. | | 24 | we stopped having sexual relations in 1999. Not full | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 25 | sex. Sorry, just to be clear. Didn't mean that we | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I met someone that | | | Page 31 | | Page 33 | | 1 | didn't still share a bed bedroom sometimes or | 1 | I fell very much in love with in 2003. His name was | | 2 | whatever. He had another girlfriend. | 2 | Ted Waitt. Ted Waitt, you may know as the founder of | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: He had what? | 3 | Gateway, the computers. And we had an amazing | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other girlfriends. I | 4 | relationship that ended in went on until 2010, I | | 5 | definitively knew that it was over after 9/11, | 5 | think. And I was with Ted from that time. | | 6 | actually, because we were both in New York and I | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet him through | | 7 | don't know, were you in New York on 9/11? I mean, | 7 | Mr. Epstein? | | 8 | 9/11 | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. Well, indirectly, | | 9 | And it was a scary time if you were in New | 9 | I suppose you could say so. No, they'd never met. I | | 10 | York. You didn't know, I didn't know, nobody knew | 10 | was at a dinner where I met Ted, but it wasn't I | | 11 | what was going on. And he was in 71st Street and I | 11 | was with President Clinton. President Clinton was my | | 12 | was in 65th Street, my house. | 12 | friend, not Epstein's friend. | | 13 | And he wouldn't see me at all. Asked me, | 13 | And Epstein had flown him and there was a | | 14 | his mum, who I'm very close to, who's in hospital at | 14 | dinner and Ted came to the dinner. So I guess, | | 15 | Lennox , just asked me to look after her. And | 15 | indirectly, through Mr. Epstein, because it was with | | 16 | then I knew, as anyone did at that time, if you're | 16 | his plane, but I'd have been there anyway without | | 17 | not going to be there for someone in 9/11, you're | 17 | him. I had was not the | | 18 | never going to be there. So for me, that was the | 18 | DAVID MARKUS: Was Epstein on the plane | | 19 | Image and And he had another English girlfriand | 19 | when you guys flew? | | | line's end. And he had another English girlfriend | 0.0 | CHICLARIE MANUELL C. A. C. | | 20 | actually, from 2000. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: On that trip, yes. | | 20
21 | actually, from 2000.
TODD BLANCHE: Are you, though, still on | 21 | Well, yes. They that, yes. | | 20
21
22 | actually, from 2000.
TODD BLANCHE: Are you, though, still on
his are you still being paid by him at this point? | 21
22 | Well, yes. They that, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: So when you say the the | | 20
21
22
23 | actually, from 2000.
TODD BLANCHE: Are you, though, still on
his are you still being paid by him at this point?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 21
22
23 | Well, yes. They that, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: So when you say the the
dinner was was where? | | 20
21
22 | actually, from 2000.
TODD BLANCHE: Are you, though, still on
his are you still being paid by him at this point? | 21
22 | Well, yes. They that, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: So when you say the the | ![](_page_8_Picture_1.jpeg) 9 (Pages 30 to 33) | | Page 34 | | Page 36 | |----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | you had flown over with so who was on the plane | 1 | manage the budgets, I oversaw the budgets. So I | | 2 | for that trip? I don't mean everybody. | 2 | would just make sure that if you said you bought an | | 3 | When you said, so Mr. Epstein was on the | 3 | air conditioning part, I saw an air conditioning part | | 4 | plane? | 4 | and I could call the island manager. | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 5 | Did you receive the Carrier, whatever, you | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: You were on the plane? | 6 | know. | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: When did Mr. Epstein | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Who else, that you can | 8 | purchase the island? | | 9 | remember? I'm not, you know, you only remember what | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say '96 or | | 10 | you remember. | 10 | '97, something like that. | | 11 | DAVID MARKUS: Was President Clinton on | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're going to | | 12 | the plane? | 12 | come back and spend more time on the money with — | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Clinton. He would've | 13 | with respect to Mr. Epstein and and his wealth. | | 14 | — he would've had his guy, Doug Vance, maybe Jason | 14 | But just so we can finish this, so in | | 15 | =
maybe the two. | 15 | 2009, you end your relationship with Ted. | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: And you — and so why — | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 2009, 2010. | | 17 | so — so how do you meet so — so why did you say | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 18 | that's when you met him and that you met him through | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't remember if it | | 19 | Clinton? | 19 | was '10. | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, it was a I | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So in that time | | 21 | don't think Ted would've been there, had it not been | 21 | period, what happens next with as far as your | | 22 | a — it was a President Clinton dinner and Ted came | 22 | relationship with Mr. Epstein? | | 23 | to be with President Clinton | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have one with | | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 24 | him. | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not to be with | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: You don't have one with | | | | | | | | Page 35 | | Page 37 | | | | | | | 1
2 | Mr. Epstein. Does that make sense?
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. | 1
2 | him, like you don't see him or it's just a different
relationship? | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's why I say that. | 3 | | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you're you're, | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did see I maybe
saw him once or twice, maybe even three times. I | | 5 | so in the time that you're dating, that you're with | 5 | certainly went to his house once, for sure, maybe | | 6 | him to 2009, are you still working for Mr. Epstein | 6 | twice. But I was not seeing him. | | 7 | during that time? | 7 | The only time that I was in touch with him | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So his so it'd be | 8 | was when the things happened. Like things, I mean, | | 9 | true to say that Jeffrey tried very hard, he tried | 9 | in the press that affected me or when the CVRA case | | 10 | very hard to to keep me to working for him, | 10 | was filed and there was like rubbish that went out, | | 11 | because this is a complex operator. | 11 | because I needed information. | | 12 | I'm not talking about anything untoward, | 12 | Because I didn't know I didn't know | | 13 | just the sheer size of the projects. I'm talking the | 13 | anything about what was happening and I needed his | | 14 | construction projects, the houses, the staff. It's | 14 | help. A, to under- — I — I well, that doesn't | | 15 | a — it's a really significant job. And I ran all | 15 | sound right. Let me rephrase that. I don't mean his | | 16 | the properties, the staff in the properties, the | 16 | help. I meant to have answers, so that I had an | | 17 | management of the properties that and all the | 17 | ability to defend myself, that's what I'm talking | | 18 | construction. | 18 | about. I'm not talking any | | 19 | And we're talking tens of millions of | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: So when does that | | 20 | dollars for the island alone. I can't remember what | 20 | relationship change? So — so you're working you | | 21 | the budget was for the construction on any given | 21 | talked about when your
the physical relationship | | 22 | year, it's gone. | 22 | stopped and then you're still working for him, or | | 23 | But it it was these are very | 23 | with him managing his properties and being — serving | | 24
25 | significant projects. And so that was what I did.
And I managed the budgets. Well, not, I didn't | 24
25 | as like a general manager.
You then start your own relationship with | ![](_page_9_Picture_1.jpeg) 10 (Pages 34 to 37) | 1 | Page 38 | | Page 40 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | another individual from with Ted from 2003 till | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. So we'll | | 2 | 2009 or '10. At what point in that whole period is | 2 | take a we'll take a break. | | 3 | there like more of a break, where you're no longer | 3 | DAVID MARKUS: Yep. | | 4 | acting as his general manager? | 4 | SPENCER HORN: All right. So we're going | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I I wanted to | 5 | to take a break, the time is 10:56. | | 6 | have a full break when I started dating Ted. And he | 6 | (Break at 10:56 a.m. to 11:07 a.m.) | | 7 | was clever. I I I suppose it would be true to | 7 | SPENCER HORN: We're continuing the | | 8 | say that I sort of viewed Mr. Epstein, at that point, | 8 | proffer interview with Ms. Maxwell. The time is | | 9 | as sort of family, if you will. Like someone I could | 9 | 11:07 a.m., on Thursday, July 24th. | | 10 | rely on. | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: All right. So just picking | | 11 | And I should have had more confidence in | 11 | up where we just stopped. So so you you have | | 12 | myself. I can see that now. But at the time, given | 12 | basically a break. Well, not a break, that's the | | 13 | everything that had happened in my life, I thought | 13 | wrong word, but your your relationship with | | 14 | that it would and I saw how he was with other | 14 | Mr. Maxwell [sic] professional and other changes | | 15 | people like Eva, who seemed to be very comfortable | 15 | in 2003, '04? | | 16 | with him, and I thought this would be and he | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I mean, and | | 17 | always said, I was like family. | 17 | over the time that I stay with Ted, the more time I'm | | 18 | So he worked hard to make maintain a | 18 | with Ted, the more distance I have with him. And | | 19 | relationship with me. He was generous with me. He | 19 | then when the arrest well, let's go back. | | 20 | let me use the plane, for instance, which was very | 20 | When he whatever whatever happened | | 21 | generous, he would check in with my mum. He did | 21 | in 2005 and he became arrested in 2006. | | 22 | things that were meaningful to me in that time. | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: So when he's charged and | | 23 | And then, it may still not have worked, | 23 | arrested in what we'll call the Florida | | 24 | but that his his mother, Paula, had been in a very | 24 | Investigations, that's what you're talking about? | | 25 | serious car crash. And I she had become sort of | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am. | | 20 | serious cui crush. Fuid 1 sile nud become sort of | | | | | Page 39 | | Page 41 | | 1 | Page 39 | 1 | Page 41
TODD BLANCHE: Okay Go abead | | 1 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead. | | 2 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not | | 2
3 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry. | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well | | 2
3
4 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right. | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that | | 2
3
4
5 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation? | | 2
3
4
5
6 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going
to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never even received
a phone call.
TODD BLANCHE: did you so you didn't | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going
to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not
called that. I just don't remember what it's called. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never even received
a phone call.
TODD BLANCHE: did you so you didn't
receive a subpoena? | | 2
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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21 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going
to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not
called that. I just don't remember what it's called.
But it was an old age it was a retirement home, if | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
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10
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21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never even received
a phone call.
TODD BLANCHE: did you so you didn't
receive a subpoena?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 2
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7
8
9
10
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22 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going
to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not
called that. I just don't remember what it's called.
But it was an old age it was a retirement home, if
you will. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never even received
a phone call.
TODD BLANCHE: did you so you didn't
receive a subpoena?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did the state law | | 2
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23 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going
to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not
called that. I just don't remember what it's called.
But it was an old age it was a retirement home, if
you will.
DAVID MARKUS: Todd, I don't know, we've | 2
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7
8
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23 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never even received
a phone call.
TODD BLANCHE: did you so you didn't
receive a subpoena?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did the state law
enforcement ever reach out to you? | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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22 | like a a surrogate mother for me, sort of, because
my mum wasn't there. I could I could look after
her the way that I would sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: It's all right.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The way that I
would've liked to look after my own mum. So I became
very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash and in
2004, I believe it it may have been 2005, I I
don't recall exactly. She took a her health took
a serious decline. And Epstein called me and asked
me if I could look after her. And by looking after
her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure
she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
DAVID MARKUS: Where was she?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She lived in in a
retirement establishment in outside of Palm Beach,
outside of its West Palm. I want I was going
to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not
called that. I just don't remember what it's called.
But it was an old age it was a retirement home, if
you will. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I had I was not
in well
TODD BLANCHE: Well, were you part of that
investigation?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did law enforcement
ever talk to you as part of that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you, like, the feds
never talked to you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: the FBI never talked to
you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never even received
a phone call.
TODD BLANCHE: did you so you didn't
receive a subpoena?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did the state law | ![](_page_10_Picture_1.jpeg) 11 (Pages 38 to 41) | 1 | Page 42 | | Page 44 | |----------|-------------------------------------------------------|----|------------------------------------------------------| | 1 ± | government, either state or federal, subpoena your | 1 | lost to time. But anyway, at some point, I think his | | 2 | bank records or subpoena anything from your financial | 2 | mother had died now. I can't remember the timing of | | 3 | life, during that time? During the that time? | 3 | all of that either. | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. Not as far as I'm | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 5 | aware. Now, if they did, I don't know it and I have | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But I ended up in Palm | | 6 | I have no idea about that, to be honest. But I'm | 6 | Beach and he had asked me to come and look at the | | 7 | I'm not aware of it and I would say no, but maybe | 7 | swatches or whatever he was doing, because they had | | 8 | you guys do things that I don't know. | 8 | laid it all out over the house and various things, | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: So how did how did you | 9 | and I think he'd asked for my opinion. That's my | | 10 | learn of that case? When Mr. Epstein was arrested, | 10 | memory of this. | | 11 | or did you know that something was happening before | 11 | It may also be that Ted and I were going | | 12 | then? | 12 | to Palm Beach, because Ted had a golf match or | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The the first thing | 13 | something. There was a reason I was in Palm Beach. | | 14 | I knew was he had told me he was deciding to | 14 | It wasn't solely I don't maybe that's not true | | 15 | redecorate the house in Palm Beach. It didn't | 15 | either. I don't know. So I | | 16 | surprise me, it was like a rolling situation. | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: And, but by that time are | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: there's a, you | | 18 | you doing are you like he tells you because he | 18 | know, sometimes I went to Palm Beach because Ted was | | 19 | wants your help or your relationship changed by this | 19 | there. I don't know if that's part of that time | | 20 | time where you were no longer kind of acting his | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead go ahead. | | 21 | as his general manager? | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: or Ted went there | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I was I was | 22 | and left me. I don't know, something. | | 23 | still around. | 23 | Anyway, I was there. No. That's not how | | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 24 | that went either. No. Anyway, at some point in that | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wasn't gone. I was | 25 | time, I saw all the swatches, at some point in 2005, | | | Page 43 | | Page 45 | | 1 | with Ted. I was traveling. I wasn't daily if you | 1 | I think that was. And then I believe, or I don't | | 2 | would ask me where he was in any given time, I'm not | 2 | remember. I I think I got a phone call actually. | | 3 | sure I would've known then. I mean, it was, I I | 3 | I wasn't in Palm Beach. I think I got a phone call | | 4 | felt like I suppose the relationship moved into sort | 4 | that there was a police at his house or something. | | 5 | of like a long-term friend-family, you know, like | 5 | There was a | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: And would you have gotten a | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: like I felt he had | 7 | phone call from him or you think you were just told | | 8 | with Eva, if I'm honest. | 8 | by somebody that knew that it had happened or don't | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. So so he | 9 | or don't you remember? | | 10 | says to you he's going to redecorate the Palm Beach | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Definitely not him. | | 11 | house. | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He he asked me | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it would've | | 13 | specifically which decorator he thinks I he should | 13 | been the houseman. | | 14 | use, because I had a lot of contacts with decorators | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: So when that happens, | | 15 | 78 1 1 | 15 | whenever it was, that's kind of the first time you | | 16 | at maintaining relationships with people who worked | 16 | know that Mr. Epstein's being investigated for | | 17 | for him, I'm not. So anyways, I recommended I | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I didn't even | | 18 | think I recommended. I can't be a hundred percent | 18 | know what that I didn't even understand. | | 19 | sure, because it's been a long time, but I think I | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 20 | recommended Mark Zeff at that time. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Who? | 21 | context for that. | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mark Zeff | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was like, I didn't | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe. And I | 24 | even know I I didn't know. | | 24
25 | don't know why. I I don't remember. That's all | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So after | ![](_page_11_Picture_1.jpeg) 12 (Pages 42 to 45) | | Page 46 | | Page 48 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't I | 1 | end? When was that that it stopped? | | 2 | didn't I didn't I'm not sure even what I | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 2008, or '09. | | 3 | thought. I was like, that's weird. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: so after he after you | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: '09. When did he come | | 5 | find out about it, what happens with your | 5 | out of jail? Whenever he came out of jail. | | 6 | relationship with him? | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So, and over the | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I asked him. I asked | 7 | years, it increased from what you said was you | | 8 | him what was going on | 8 | thought about \$25,000 to \$250,000. That's between | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 9 | like '90, early '90s until 2009 or '10, whenever he | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and he said, I | 10 | stopped; is that right? | | 11 | I not to worry. Nothing, nothing, taking care. | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes yes. | | 12 | Don't worry about it (indiscernible) and then it all | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: And how were you paid? | | 13 | went quiet. I didn't he didn't say, he didn't | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: W2. | | 14 | | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: W2 from which from what | | 15 | share. I wasn't part of it at all. I was off with
Ted and I really just | 15 | | | 16 | | 16 | company? Or do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He, like I he just | | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Did he tell you well, | 17 | moved me around over to this company, that, I didn't | | 18 | why don't we come back to more specifics around that | 18 | care | | 19 | time period in a few minutes | 19 | | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and I didn't care | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: I want to just finish | 21 | and I didn't think that I didn't understand any | | 22 | this opening part. | 22 | | | 23 | So that case goes on, ultimately it ends. | 23 | rhyme or reason, it doesn't, I just, you know,
whatever | | 24 | What what what was your relationship like with | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So | | 25 | him during that case, when he goes, you know, when
he when he was sentenced. | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: so maybe | | 20 | | 23 | | | | | | Page 40 | | 1 | Page 47 | 1 | Page 49 | | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail." | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage | | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything." | | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. | | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that? | | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency, | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay." | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000 | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures
and I'm happy to explain how that was, but I think | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I
was going, Paris at this point, because I speak | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures
and I'm happy to explain how that was, but I think
salary wise, if I'm right, it ended at around a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I
was going, Paris at this point, because I speak
, I'm fluent in | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures
and I'm happy to explain how that was, but I think
salary wise, if I'm right, it ended at around a
quarter of a million a year. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I
was going, Paris at this point, because I speak
, I'm fluent in
And also my relationship with the | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures
and I'm happy to explain how that was, but I think
salary wise, if I'm right, it ended at around a
quarter of a million a year.
TODD BLANCHE: How much? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I
was going, Paris at this point, because I speak
, I'm fluent in
And also my relationship with the
decorator was critical to him. And in the | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures
and I'm happy to explain how that was, but I think
salary wise, if I'm right, it ended at around a
quarter of a million a year.
TODD BLANCHE: How much?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Quarter of a million. | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I
was going, Paris at this point, because I speak
, I'm fluent in
And also my relationship with the
decorator was critical to him. And in the
component part of of that aspect, that was really | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked he he
he told me, he said, "Listen. I'm going to jail."
I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "I would like you
to stay on board to manage the properties, the
animals, this and that, and just stay put and I'll
continue to pay you. In case there's any emergency,
I don't trust anyone." And I was like, "Okay."
TODD BLANCHE: Well, when you said
continue to pay, had he con has he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He had never stopped
paying me.
TODD BLANCHE: He never stopped paying
you. So even when your relationship changes, you're
getting does the amount increase from the \$25,000
or so a year from the beginning? Like how much are
you getting paid yearly?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it ended at
the time, well, we had different payment structures
and I'm happy to explain how that was, but I think
salary wise, if I'm right, it ended at around a
quarter of a million a year.
TODD BLANCHE: How much? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: so when he's going to go
to jail, he says, "Can you stay around and manage
everything."
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you do that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then and then
we'll come back to that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not manage
everything, no. I mean there are other people at
this point. My specific role then was very, very
diminished.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I reviewed the bill
structure that came from the constructions, that were
still made, the island
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and wherever else I
was going, Paris at this point, because I speak
, I'm fluent in
And also my relationship with the
decorator was critical to him. And in the | ![](_page_12_Picture_1.jpeg) 13 (Pages 46 to 49) | 1 | Page 50 | | Page 52 | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | you would've had to find someone who was trilingual | 1 | know, been contacted by law enforcement before his | | 2 | to and that he trusted | 2 | arrest? | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I wasn't in an | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: to manage, not | 4 | indictment. | | 5 | steal from him. | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: No. I know that, but even | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you so when he gets | 6 | as a witness or or asking you if you would give | | 7 | out of jail, between that time 2009 or '10, and 2019, | 7 | documents or materials? | | 8 | what's your relationship like with with | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I had never up | | 9 | Mr. Epstein? | 9 | until he up until when my lawyers said that, I | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Almost nonexistent. | 10 | don't even know. I I had no knowledge of them | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Why? | 11 | being interested in me, honestly. I don't I want | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I had just moved | 12 | to say until he had died. | | 13 | on and I just didn't want to have anything to I | 13 | Now I know that my lawyers were in touch | | 14 | didn't want the drama. I didn't want to be | 14 | with the Southern District of New York at some point | | 15 | associated with | 15 | after his arrest. I'm pretty sure that had to have | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: So do you recall when | 16 | happened, right | | 17 | you say "almost non-existent," does that mean | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It doesn't mean it | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: but I my | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: was it some phone calls, | 19 | understanding is that they had not shown any | | 20 | some visits | 20 | interest. I know my lawyers went to see them once, I | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I definitely. | 21 | believe, and | | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: some trips, or what does | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Went to see him meaning | | 23 | it mean? | 23 | Mr. Epstein? | | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I I don't I | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, them. So Southern | | 25 | don't think there were any trips. , I don't I | 25 | District of New York. | | | Page 51 | | Page 53 | | 1 | don't think so. | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. The Southern | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Where were you living | - | TODD DELITOTIE. Okuy. The boundern | | | | 2 | District of New York, Okay, | | 3 | | 2 | District of New York. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, And that they | | 3 | during that time period? Or was it | 234 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they | | 4 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period? | 3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they had been in regular, in touch with him and | | | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019? | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking | | 4
5 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period? | 3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about | | 4
5
6
7 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York. | 3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died? | | 4
5
6 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in | 3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about | | 4
5
6
7
8 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so | 3
4
5
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I | | 4
5
7
8
9 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember. | | 4
5
7
8
9
10 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion? | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I | | 4
5
7
8
9
10
11 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when | | 4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested. | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like,
what do I do? What, I mean, I was like | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like, | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw
them met with them, Southern District of New York | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like,
what do I do? What, I mean, I was like | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw
them met with them, Southern District of New York
I'm talking about now, until after he died. I know | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like,
what do I do? What, I mean, I was like
TODD BLANCHE: And and then when he's
charged in New York federally
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 3
4
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw
them met with them, Southern District of New York
I'm talking about now, until after he died. I know
that they were in regular telephone contact with them | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like,
what do I do? What, I mean, I was like
TODD BLANCHE: And and then when he's
charged in New York federally
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: how did you learn about | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw
them met with them, Southern District of New York
I'm talking about now, until after he died. I know
that they were in regular telephone contact with them
and that my lawyers believed that they had been told | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like,
what do I do? What, I mean, I was like
TODD BLANCHE: And and then when he's
charged in New York federally
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: how did you learn about
that case? | 3
4
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw
them met with them, Southern District of New York
I'm talking about now, until after he died. I know
that they were in regular telephone contact with them
and that my lawyers believed that they had been told
that there was no interest in me | | 4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | during that time period? Or was it
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Which time period?
TODD BLANCHE: Between 2009, '10 and 2019?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was back in
New York.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you had no so
when you so so your you had phone calls with
him on occasion?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I
certainly did when it whenever there was any legal
drama or any like, serious press attention, I always
called him to try and find out what was going on.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did email him at
that time for those types of details. It was like,
what do I do? What, I mean, I was like
TODD BLANCHE: And and then when he's
charged in New York federally
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: how did you learn about | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. And that they
had been in regular, in touch with him and
TODD BLANCHE: But now you're talking
about after Mr. Epstein died or are you talking about
before he died?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, I
TODD BLANCHE: If you can remember.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Easily verifiable. I
my memory is that they were in touch with him when
he was arrested.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if
anything happened until after his death, then after
that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think they saw
them met with them, Southern District of New York
I'm talking about now, until after he died. I know
that they were in regular telephone contact with them
and that my lawyers believed that they had been told | ![](_page_13_Picture_1.jpeg) 14 (Pages 50 to 53) | | Page 54 | | Page 56 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | stunned when I was arrested. But maybe stunned is | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2 | too big a word, but surprised. I certainly was. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: What you learned? | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So let's okay. | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. This is what he | | 4 | So that's that's was a long description of | 4 | told me | | 5 | of what was a very long life and that was very | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 6 | helpful. So I want to go back and talk more | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: himself. | | 7 | specifically now about particular areas, and, but | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: And so and then | | 8 | that was a a very helpful kind of foundation | 8 | eventually he starts a financial firm? Do you know | | 9 | for for us. | 9 | that to be true or no? J. Epstein & Company. You | | 10 | The first the first thing I want to | 10 | ever heard of that? | | 11 | talk about, you talked about earlier on, about | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's, yeah. | | 12 | Mr. Epstein's financial success. What you know, | 12 | Yes. So hang on a minute. So I this I did not | | 13 | do you know how he when you first meet him, at | 13 | know, but this I have subsequently learned | | 14 | some point you say, "I got this place for you to | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 15 | rent, you can't afford it." And he laughs at you and | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is that he had some | | 16 | says, "Yes. I can." | 16 | problem or some issue at Bear Stearns and there was | | 17 | What did you learn about his wealth and | 17 | some, I don't know, disagreement. He wasn't fired, | | 18 | how he was and how he accumulated his money? | 18 | because obviously he was still very friendly with Ace | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can tell you what he | 19 | and with Jimmy, at least by the time I met him, but | | 20 | told me. | 20 | they were working with him and he ran he had cli- | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yes. | 21 | money at Bear Stearns, and | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I I know that he | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | | 23 | was hired from working at a private school whose name | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: his money, his | | 24 | eludes me at this point. | 24 | client's money. We'll I'll come to that. | | 25 | LEAH SAFFIAN: Dalton. | 25 | But he started he told me himself that | | | | | | | | Page 55 | | Page 57 | | 1 | Page 55
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was | 1 | Page 57 he started a business where he looked for stolen | | 1 2 | | 1 2 | - | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was | - | he started a business where he looked for stolen | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he | 2 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to | | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met | 2
3
4
5 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you. | | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh. | 2
3
4 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I | | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's | 2
3
4
5 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead. | 2
3
4
5
6 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, m, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I | | 2
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7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with | | 2
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6
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8
9
10
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14
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17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to | | 2
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7
8
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18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that, | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
the car the other cartel stole from me?" And | | 2
3
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5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
the car the other cartel stole from me?" And
Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well
TODD BLANCHE: And was this before you met | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
the car the other cartel stole from me?" And
Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will
take a portion of the money that was stolen at a fee | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well
TODD BLANCHE: And was this before you met
him? | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
the car the other cartel stole from me?" And
Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will
take a portion of the money that was stolen at a fee
and give back the remainder. That would be on a | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well
TODD BLANCHE: And was this before you met
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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20
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22
23 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
the car the other cartel stole from me?" And
Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will
take a portion of the money that was stolen at a fee
and give back the remainder. That would be on a
percentage basis. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
creating a trading of, , my gosh.
TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
okay. Go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came came up
with some new type of trading system. Not not a
system so much, but as a as a as a as
vehicle. A trading vehicle.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
right now.
TODD BLANCHE: And this is while while
he was working at at Bear Stearns?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well
TODD BLANCHE: And was this before you met
him? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | he started a business where he looked for stolen
money. So if somebody let's see. I'm trying to
think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
think of anything, I've been with not great
I'll I'll give it to you.
So let's say you have El Chapo, God, I
don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
still he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he
steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just

TODD BLANCHE: Yeah yeah. I
understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just coming up with
something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
the car the other cartel stole from me?" And
Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will
take a portion of the money that was stolen at a fee
and give back the remainder. That would be on a | ![](_page_14_Picture_1.jpeg) 15 (Pages 54 to 57) | 1 | Page 58 | | Page 60 | |----------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | hypothetical | 1 | wasn't responsible for any of the client's money or | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The the please, | 2 | anything like that. So it's separate. | | 3 | that was completely hypothetical. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah. I understand. | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: but that but that | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 5 | would involve like, so two kind of drug cartels | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. | | 6 | stealing from each other. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So with Les, for | | 7 | Practically speaking, did he was a | 7 | instance, it was really all encompassing. It could | | 8 | more of a businessman, correct? | 8 | go from the structure of the business. So he | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So here's how I think | 9 | would he structured or restructured The Limited. | | 10 | that started, is that he had a girlfriend. It was | 10 | I know that, and I'll come back to that | | 11 | always you you always to the girls. I guess | 11 | because I also traveled with him and Les, and I was | | 12 | there was a girl whose name will come back to me, | 12 | in business meetings with them on the plane when they | | 13 | maybe not, whilst we're here, but I don't know, | 13 | were there. So I could observe and I could hear some | | 14 | maybe. There's a woman | 14 | of this. | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 15 | And whilst I'm not necessarily terribly | | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: there's always a | 16 | business sophisticated, I'm sophisticated enough to | | 17 | woman. And he she was the daughter of a | 17 | be able to at least have some knowledge of what was | | 18 | billionaire, for instance. And that billionaire, | 18 | happening. | | 19 | whoever hiswhatever his name was, had had some | 19 | All right. So then he restructured the | | 20 | money stolen. And for some reason this woman | 20 | business. He restructured his entire personal | | 21 | introduced Jeffrey, and Jeffrey, I think that's how | 21 | finances, and would also handle all of the investment | | 22 | that business started. That's what I remember. | 22 | strategy. I don't know if it was if it was a | | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: And is that something he | 23 | hundred percent | | 24 | told you about or something that happened while you | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Wexner is what you're | | 25 | knew him? | 25 | saying? | | | Page 59 | | Page 61 | | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. Something he told | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Yes. All | | 2 | me before I met him. | 2 | this is all Wexner I'm talking about now. | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: And so when you meet him | 3 | So let's say you had a billion dollars to | | 4 | and and once you're part of his life in the early | 4 | invest. So you would, you know, in people's normal | | 5 | to mid '90s, what is he doing to make money that you | 5 | investment portfolios, you would have, you know, some | | 6 | see? He does he have clients? Does he have rich | 6 | T-bonds and this and that, but Epstein's strategies | | 7 | clients? Does he have famous clients? And and | 7 | would be much more sophisticated than that. | | 8 | how and what if he does have clients, what | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: And so just staying with | | 9 | service is he providing them? | 9 | Mr. Wexner. Does from what you heard or saw, is | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He does have well, | 10 | Mr. Epstein paid by him in percentages? Like so | | 11 | obviously there's the one very famous client that | 11 | so there would be a deal and he would be paid or | | 12 | everybody talks about, which is Les Wexner. That was | 12 | was did you understand it to be like a flat fee? | | 13 | a very important client to him. And he I think | 13 | Was he a business partner? Like how did you | | 14 | it's probably helpful to describe what I imagine | 14 | understand him to be paid? | | 15 | what I imagine, know would I know to be true about | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was more ? | | 1.11.11 | what he managed for Les. And there's some bits that | 16 | la carte. So let's say this is a conversation I | | 16 | | 17 | actually Epstein told me. So all illustrated | | 17 | I'll be improvising | | F 1 | | 17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep. | 18 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would | | 17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I | 19 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would
take a flat percentage of that \$5 billion. He | | 17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 19
20 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would
take a flat percentage of that \$5 billion. He
wouldn't have \$5 billion back, and he would take | | 17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to just make | 19
20
21 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would
take a flat percentage of that \$5 billion. He
wouldn't have \$5 billion back, and he would take
TODD BLANCHE: When you say you think | | 17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to just make
you understand, I was not part of Epstein's business | 19
20
21
22 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would
take a flat percentage of that \$5 billion. He
wouldn't have \$5 billion back, and he would take
TODD BLANCHE: When you say you think
that, is that because you heard him talking about | | 17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to just make
you understand, I was not part of Epstein's business
world, except tangentially and obviously. So what | 19
20
21
22
23 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would
take a flat percentage of that \$5 billion. He
wouldn't have \$5 billion back, and he would take
TODD BLANCHE: When you say you think
that, is that because you heard him talking about
that or you you | | 17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to just make
you understand, I was not part of Epstein's business | 19
20
21
22 | for me, said if I saved someone \$5 billion, he would
take a flat percentage of that \$5 billion. He
wouldn't have \$5 billion back, and he would take
TODD BLANCHE: When you say you think
that, is that because you heard him talking about | ![](_page_15_Picture_1.jpeg) 16 (Pages 58 to 61) | | Page 62 | | Page 64 | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | heard him talk to people like that. I couldn't | 1 | I did meet M.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: | | 2 | sorry. | 2 | I do know M. | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: No — no. Go ahead. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: When do you remember — and | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 4 | again, I know were talking about a very long time | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Did — was there did | 5 | ago, but do you remember approximately when you met | | 6 | did he give — did Mr. Wexner gift a property in | 6 | him? | | 7 | New York to Mr. Epstein? | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I could have met M, | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we're talking about | 8 | so I might have met him, nothing to do,
not mall | | 9 | 71st Street. So I don't know what the business deal | 9 | Black is very good friends with other
because | | 10 | was, because, again, I'm not part of his business | 10 | friends of mine. I would've met him, when I say | | 11 | thing, but I think what happened would be that, let's | 11 | socially, I might have met him. How
and Epstein | | 12 | say Les owed him in, theoretically, for his services, | 12 | became really good friends, I don't — I'm not sure. | | 13 | \$100 million or whatever it was. He could have | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: But not through you, as far | | 14 | traded that against the property. | 14 | as you recall? | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: But do you know that that | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. Not through me as | | 16 | happened or that's are you are you kind of | 16 | far as I know. No. I in fact, I'mI'm sure | | 17 | do you remember whether there was conversations about | 17 | that's not through me. | | 18 | that or are you just thinking that could be one way | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know what kind of | | 19 | that it happened? | 19 | work Mr. Epstein was doing for Mr. Black over the | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not sure. And I'm | 20 | years? | | 21 | not trying to beI just don't remember if that's | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Same as what he did | | 22 | something I know or if that's something that I | 22 | for Wexner. | | 23 | remember, or if it's something that I subsequently | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: So we just talked about two | | 24 | know. I believe — I believe that to be what | 24 | individuals. And again, I know we're talking about | | 25 | happened, but I don't want to tell you that I have | 25 | a, maybe a I5-year time period or even longer. | | | Page 63 | | Pace 6`. | | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 1 | How many clients like that did Mr. Epstein | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that make sense? | 2 | have? | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did Mr. Wexner and | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But why don't I just | | 4 | Mr. Epstein are you aware of they of their | 4 | give you the names that I remember and that's | | 5 | falling out that they ultimately had? | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Say it again. | | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thinkI wasn't | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Why won't I just give | | 7 | there and I don't know how it happened. I only know | 7 | you the names. | | 8 | what Les has said in the press. | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: So you only know about | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Do you want the names? | | 10 | their, you know, their falling out or whatever you | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Sure. Go ahead. | | 11 | want to call it, from what you've kind of read, not | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Elizabeth | | | | 12 | | | 12 | from any firsthand knowledge? You did you weren't | | | | 13 | there, you weren't part of that? | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: When did as far as ou | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct. | 14 | know, when did the relationship between | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know somebody named | 15 | and Mr. Epstein start? | | 16 | Steven Hoffenberg? | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: '90s. '90 I | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Only from the press. | 17 | don't I — '95, '96. '90s. | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And so you don't | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So during the time period' | | 19 | know anything about whatever business relationship | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. We're talking | | 20 | they may have had, Mr. Epstein — | 20 | '90s. Were talking when I was there. When I was | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never spoke about him, | 21 | around. | | 22 | never mentioned it. I I only learned about that, | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: And how did the | | 23 | whatever that is, even — I don't even know what the | 23 | relationship start? | | 24
25 | truth is of that story, from the press.
TODD BLANCHE: How about
Black? | 24
25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how he
became that friendly where he ended up managing her | ![](_page_16_Picture_1.jpeg) 17 (Pages 62 to 65) | | Page 66 | | Page 68 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | money, I wasn't there. I mean, he I really had a | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2 | separate life. We really had separate lives | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: both. Okay. | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Both. | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: except where they | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And do you know when | | 5 | synced. | 5 | they met? | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: But it wasn't from | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I no. I don't | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It wasn't from me. | 7 | know when they met. But you can time it. Well, I | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: from you? | 8 | don't know that you can. No. I don't know. | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. It was not. | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: So, but what was the nature | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And what's your | 10 | of their relationship, as far as you know? | | 11 | understanding of what Mr. Epstein did for | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think they were | | 12 | ? | 12 | friends and I think that they were business partners. | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Same as what he did | 13 | Well, partners, too strong a word, but they were | | 14 | for Wexner. And when I and you have to | 14 | they did business together. | | 15 | understand, it it went down to, in tiny details. | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: So did you again, I want | | 16 | So I remember this I remember, this is an actual | 16 | to stay focused on the time where you were the most | | 17 | memory, that he would make the contracts for the | 17 | involved in his life, so | | 18 | maids, for the people who worked in their homes. | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The '90s. | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: So he would assist his | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: the early '90s through | | 20 | clients, at times, with you're saying with even | 20 | early 2000s. | | 21 | small things like contractual relations with | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And the beginning | | 22 | with | 22 | beginning of the 2000s, yes. | | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He said no detail was | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Did did you so we | | 24 | too small, because everything that affected how they | 24 | talked about four people, so | | 25 | lived and how they managed their life, was something | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There's more. | | | Page 67 | | Page 69 | | 1 | | | rage 09 | | 1 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay. | | 1
2 | | 1 2 | | | 1 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be | | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay. | | 2 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down. | | 2
3 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black, | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure. | | 2
3
4
5
6 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic] | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible) | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible). | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic] GAUSTIC . Who else?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic], Who else?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic] Mathematical Solution Who else?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic], Who else?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mote birthday book. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a
physical one. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
DAVID MARKUS: Not the birthday book.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday | | 2
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic], Who else?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a
physical one.
TODD BLANCHE: Well | 2
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19 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. No. We are going to come to that, I'm sure. | | 2
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20 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic], Who else?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a
physical one.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
DAVID MARKUS: Business one. | 2
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20 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. No. We are going to come to that, I'm sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | | 2
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8
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21 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic] | 2
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21 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. No. We are going to come to that, I'm sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. I wrote | | 2
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22 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a
physical one.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
DAVID MARKUS: Business one.
TODD BLANCHE: I didn't suggest.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, I just | 2
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. No. We are going to come to that, I'm sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. I wrote
down some names because I tried to make I just | | 2
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23 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a
physical one.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
DAVID MARKUS: Business one.
TODD BLANCHE: I didn't suggest.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, I just
TODD BLANCHE: No. I'm saying a a | 2
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23 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. No. We are going to come to that, I'm sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. I wrote
down some names because I tried to make I just
want you to understand my my memory's not as good | | 2
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22 | that he felt he was if they want, he would be
responsible for, to make sure that the contract so
that if you had to fire someone, it wouldn't come
back and sue you or if that that sort of
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So Mr. Black,
Mr. Werner [sic]
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the name of the
woman from Ohio (inaudible).
TODD BLANCHE: Know someone named
Jes Staley.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. I do know Jes.
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was at
Stanley and at Barclays.
TODD BLANCHE: What do do you know
whether he and Mr. Epstein had a relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not a not a
physical one.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
DAVID MARKUS: Business one.
TODD BLANCHE: I didn't suggest.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, I just | 2
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: were there more? Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. There were
more. There was a lady whose name I just can't
can I get my book? Maybe I wrote them down.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (Indiscernible)
Epstein wouldn't really let me meet his clients.
TODD BLANCHE: What book are you using?
What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wrote some notes for
the meeting.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Great. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is that alright?
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's fine. I just
was curious what what we're looking at.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not the birthday
book. No. We are going to come to that, I'm sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. I wrote
down some names because I tried to make I just | T Г ![](_page_17_Picture_1.jpeg) 18 (Pages 66 to 69) | | Page 70 | | Page 72 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | watch for almost two years, which meant that they | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 2 | woke me up every 15 minutes for the entire time. And | 2 | DAVID MARKUS: because we'll probably | | 3 | it's it really did affect my ability to | 3 | meet tomorrow. | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Understand. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But you can find them. | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 5 | I mean, if you basically find a billionaire female. | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: So the woman in Ohio who's | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I'm not | 7 | wealthy, that you worked with. | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: So you've taken some notes | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And well, you can | | 9 | in anticipation | 9 | identify her yourself because she had the largest | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I just made some names | 10 | Klein painting. That was huge. So you can find her, | | 11 | in in advance for this | 11 | because it'll be in a museum. | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. So go ahead. | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 13 | So | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So that's her. | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and you're happy to | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: And so he that was one | | 15 | look at them as well, if you want. | 15 | of Mr. Epstein's clients? | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: No. Go go ahead. | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. , well, funny | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: She was one of | | 18 | you say, first two names. One is Wexner, two is | 18 | Mr. client Mr. Epstein's clients as well? | | 19 | Staley, three is Black. | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Who else? | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Glenn was a | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I think that | | 22 | client. | 22 | there was people, other people that he would, like, | | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that? | 23 | assist. I know that he helped Forester, who | | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Eva husband. | 24 | became de Rothschild. She'll deny it and she | | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What was their, I | 25 | has, but she she can't. | | | | | | | | Page 71 | | Page 73 | | 1 | mean, if you can do you know when about when | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help," | | 2 | mean, if you can do you know when about when that relationship started? | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help? | | 2
3 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well, | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I | | 2
3
4 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure. | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped | | 2
3
4
5 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of | | 2
3
4
5
6 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was. | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capit al and the financing or selling of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | mean, if you can do you know when about when
that relationship started?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Whenever well,
wouldn't have been before they got married, for sure.
So if you're going to start you're going to date
that from wherever that was.
And then Epstein was heavily involved with
Highbridge Capital and the financing or selling of
Highbridge to JP .
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Go ahead.
Eva . Yep.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. You're only
looking for clients, so, all right. There's a
woman well he there's a woman in Ohio. I just
can't think of her name, but it will I tried to
remember it yesterday and I can't. | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that. | | 2
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7
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9
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11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | | 2
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8
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15
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17 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 2
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18 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've | | 2
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19 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've
been talking about it, that he was very he was | | 2
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20 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've
been talking about it, that he was very he was
very conscientious. He was very good at math. He | | 2
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21 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've
been talking about it, that he was very he was
very conscientious. He was very good at math. He
was took, paid a lot of attention to his clients, | | 2
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20 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've
been talking about it, that he was very he was
very conscientious. He was very good at math. He | | 2
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've
been talking about it, that he was very he was
very conscientious. He was very good at math. He
was took, paid a lot of attention to his clients,
but but yes. You're right. There's allegations | | 2
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23 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help,"
the same help in business or what help?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so so I
have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped
her financially. Her husband was the controller of
New York. So, but I don't again, I'm not inside
his business, but he would've his his this
notion that he black blackmailed men or we don't
really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman
and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or
what I don't believe that to be true.
TODD BLANCHE: Why?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you so you say
you don't believe it to be true, but show me why you
think that.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Just from I know you've
been talking about it, that he was very he was
very conscientious. He was very good at math. He
was took, paid a lot of attention to his clients,
but but yes. You're right. There's allegations
of of blackmail or also that that there was | ![](_page_18_Picture_1.jpeg) 19 (Pages 70 to 73) | _ | | | | _ | | |---|---|---|---|---|---| | P | а | a | 0 | 7 | 6 | | | 5 | Э | ~ | | ~ | | | Page 74 | | Page 76 | |-----|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | say that? | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I let me | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So even, let's assume | | 3 | rephrase that. If there was fraud, I never saw it. | 3 | that that premise is correct, that he was doing that | | 4 | What I saw or what I felt when I his I ran that | 4 | and he was going to tell everybody, going to say, | | 5 | office. I mean, ran. I didn't I was responsible | 5 | ", you know, you had inappropriate relations with | | 6 | for the staff. People worked. There were lawyers, | 6 | an underage girl." If you don't have a video or | | 7 | there were accountants. I never heard him I never | 7 | photograph, photographic evidence, because I I'm | | 8 | wit I never felt anything, I don't know, icky. | 8 | not sure that even the FBI would take that. Well, | | 9 | DAVID MARKUS: Did did you ever see him | 9 | maybe today, but certainly not back then, would take | | 10 | blackmail a | 10 | that seriously. | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. | 11 | So you have to have something to say, | | 12 | DAVID MARKUS: a client? | 12 | "Hey, you know, look, I've got this video of you | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 13 | doing terrible things and you need to." So I built | | 14 | DAVID MARKUS: Did you ever see him | 14 | those houses, many of them. I decorated those | | 15 | blackmail a an a friend or an acquaintance? | 15 | houses. I put the electricians in for the wiring. I | | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. | 16 | never wired, nor saw, a single house that had any | | 17 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. | 17 | type of inappropriate, let's say, video surveillance. | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, so I think when folks | 18 | And I'll define that for you. | | 19 | talk about block blackmail, and we can talk about | 19 | Inappropriate surveillance would mean in a bathroom, | | 20 | sorry about that. | 20 | in a bedroom, in any private area of a home. | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: In a room where there were | | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: We can talk about that now. | 22 | massages given? | | 23 | There are a lot of allegations about him, which | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Inappropriate. I | | 24 | we'll which we should talk about and we can do | 24 | would say I would define "appropriate" surveillance | | 25 | that now. And the fact that he abused young women. | 25 | to be the front door of a house, or potentially, as | | 2.5 | Page 75 | 2.5 | Page 77 | | 1 | | 1 | | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 1 2 | in 71st Street, the physical plant. Anywhere else
would be grotesque. | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Full stop. Okay. Which
means, the way that I'm defining abuse, as has been | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So I just want to come back | | 4 | | 4 | to I know I'm just hopefully stating the obvious, | | 5 | widely reported, is that that he would cause young | 5 | but when you say "the houses," you're talking about | | 6 | women in high school to be recruited to come to his
house and give him massages. And a part of and | 6 | his New York | | 7 | the and the and as part of that, he would | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 8 | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: brownstone? | | 9 | sexually abuse them, okay?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: So I want to talk about | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: You're talking about the | | 11 | that. But as it relates to blackmail, the question | 11 | island in in the Caribbean? | | 12 | is whether you're aware of any time, that any of the | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 13 | individuals we're talking about, and we'll talk about | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: You're talking about the | | 14 | others, received massages from women who were under | 14 | residence in Palm Beach? | | 15 | 18 or may have been under 18. | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 16 | And that whether there was any sexual | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: And you're talking about | | 17 | assaults or sexual contact between any of these | 17 | the ranch in New Mexico? | | 18 | people and those masseuses, which would've allowed | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 19 | then, Mr. Epstein, potentially, to blackmail them and | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Anywhere else? | | 20 | say, "You have to continue to work with me or you | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Paris. | | 21 | have to give me money, or else I'm going to tell the | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: And in Paris. And so | | 22 | world that that that you did this." | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And the plane. I saw | | | • | 23 | some ridiculous thing with the plane | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right L., I think | | | | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. I I think
this is a really good place to start with how this | | с . | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. 1 I think
this is a really good place to start with how this
story began. | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: And the plane. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: that was what we're | ![](_page_19_Picture_3.jpeg) 20 (Pages 74 to 77) | | Page 78 | | Page 80 | |----|-------------------------------------------------------|----|-------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | doing. Yes. I didn't | 1 | because John Alessi, the was fired in the end | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: So | 2 | of 2002 and he was the thief. | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't hire any | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So aside from law | | 4 | electrician on the plane. Okay. | 4 | enforcement installing a camera, to try to catch | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: so unequivocally, | 5 | somebody stealing money from Mr. Epstein, you're not | | 6 | unequivocally from what you know, and you only know | 6 | aware of any cameras at the island no. Sorry. | | 7 | what you know | 7 | You're just so we record it because | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I only know what I | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , sorry sorry | | 9 | know. | 9 | sorry. | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: but from what you know, | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay. You were | | 11 | you do not believe a camera exists, or a video camera | 11 | nodding your head no. | | 12 | or a camera that takes pictures, inside any of his | 12 | So what about | | 13 | residences? | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No cameras anywhere, | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct. | 14 | outside of, possibly, things that would I would | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: So even the appropriate | 15 | consider myself, I would consider normal. So the | | 16 | cameras that you just talked about, which would be | 16 | garage gate, something like that, a front door. | | 17 | kind of exterior security cameras, did you know | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Outside, like security | | 18 | whether there was any cameras, that you're aware of, | 18 | cameras? | | 19 | inside any of the locations? | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Security cameras. | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never, with one | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: No. I I | | 21 | exception. | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And there were cameras | | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What's the | 22 | inside in the 71st Street that did the plant, the | | 23 | exception? | 23 | physical plant, because it was a commercial building. | | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The exception is | 24 | So you had the whole that's a real thing there. | | 25 | Palm Beach. | 25 | It's a commercial building. | | | Page 79 | | Page 81 | | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 1 | And there were there was one camera on | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And the reason so | 2 | the on the front door, internal, from the internal | | 3 | in Palm Beach, Epstein was having money stolen. He | 3 | that did the front door, as I recall. But I there | | 4 | noticed money was being stolen from his briefcase, | 4 | were no other cameras inside the house. | | 5 | call it his briefcase. And he called in the | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever how about | | 6 | Palm Beach police and they, the Palm Beach police | 6 | photographs. Did you ever observe Mr. Epstein, or | | 7 | installed cameras on where he kept his briefcase. | 7 | anybody around him, take pictures of anybody in | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Where was that? Do you | 8 | compromising positions with women or with or with | | 9 | remember? | 9 | anybody? | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At his desk in so | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 11 | the house on the ground floor was he had a desk, | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever hear, when you | | 12 | sort of in a corner. There was that camera. I think | 12 | were present for conversations that Mr. Epstein was | | 13 | there was another camera. I think there were two or | 13 | having, or others were having, anybody accuse him of | | 14 | maybe three cameras. I believe only on the ground | 14 | blackmailing them or of trying to extort them, | | 15 | floor, wherever he may have had maybe he had | 15 | because of something Mr. Epstein knew? | | 16 | another office in the cabana. There may have been a | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 17 | camera there. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: There have been and | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: When was this? I'm not | 18 | and you you in the discovery you got in the | | 19 | looking for an exact date, but what time period are | 19 | New York case, okay. | | 20 | you thinking about when you say this? | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 2003. I think I can | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: And in the civil cases that | | 22 | date it for you precisely, actually, 2003. I'm | 22 | you've been part of | | 23 | pretty firm on that date. | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: So | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: associated with | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I can be firm | 25 | Mr. Epstein, have you ever been given or ever been | ![](_page_20_Picture_1.jpeg) 21 (Pages 78 to 81) | | Page 82 | | Page 84 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | told that video exists, like what we're talking | 1 | compromising position, would be good blackmail. | | 2 | about, or photos were taken that that were | 2 | But so separate putting aside what | | 3 | compromising? | 3 | you've said about the fact that you don't know of any | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So in the in both | 4 | existence of those, did you observe, over the years, | | 5 | of those, I never received no pictures or anything | 5 | the folks we're talking about, or others which we can | | 6 | from the civil case. | 6 | talk about, getting massages from young women? | | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I I just I | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But in the criminal | 8 | think it's really helpful to understand a few things | | 9 | case, I received videos of Epstein talking to women | 9 | that has been missed in this whole mishigas. | | 10 | and stuff like that. I did get those. I also saw | 10 | DAVID MARKUS: That's a technical term. | | 11 | binders, photographs of women and (indiscernible). I | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: I'll look it up later. | | 12 | never saw any, well, I don't know I don't know how | 12 | Go ahead. | | 13 | old some of these women were. There were definitely | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought about this | | 14 | some of the victims from Palm Beach, the photographs | 14 | obviously a lot and I've given it | | 15 | of them in in without clothing. | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep. | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: And in that in those | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: some so this is | | 17 | photographs, were the victims that were | 17 | the benefit of some benefit of what I saw and some | | 18 | photographed, were there any of the people you've | 18 | benefit of what I now think, so just for clarity's | | 19 | talked about? Like, were there men with the victims | 19 | sake. | | 20 | or were they just photographs of the victims? | 20 | I think I just want to say for the | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There was no men with | 21 | record, that I do believe that Epstein did a lot of, | | 22 | these pictures. There was no client of his with | 22 | not all, but some of what he's accused of. And I'm | | 23 | those pictures. They would be standalone, for want | 23 | not here to defend him in any respect whatsoever. I | | 24 | of a better word, like modeling shots. If you | 24 | don't want to, and I don't think he requires, nor | | 25 | were if you if you were, I don't know. | 25 | deserves any type of protection or from me in any | | | | | | | | Page 83 | | Page 85 | | 1 | Page 83
DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had | 1 | Page 85
way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So | | 2 | | 2 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So there's that. | | 2
3 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls. | 2
3 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he | | 2
3
4 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct. | 2
3
4 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I | | 2
3
4
5 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you | 2
3
4
5 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he | | 2
3
4
5
6 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know | 2
3
4
5
6 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
start doing what he's accused of. I think this is | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
start doing what he's accused of. I think this is
something that you develop or you progress to. I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
start doing what he's accused of. I think this is
something that you develop or you progress to. I
I think, because | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
start doing what he's accused of. I think this is
something that you develop or you progress to. I
I think, because
DAVID MARKUS: Ghislaine, before before | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
start doing what he's accused of. I think this is
something that you develop or you progress to. I
I think, because
DAVID MARKUS: Ghislaine, before before
you get into all that, let's answer the top line | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
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12
13
14
15
16
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18 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
there's that.
However, the man I met and the man he
became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
don't think that the man I met is the man that he
became. I believe he became that man over a period
of time.
Now we can discuss anything you want and
I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
who has an interest, however you define that, in
underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
start doing what he's accused of. I think this is
something that you develop or you progress to. I
I think, because
DAVID MARKUS: Ghislaine, before before
you get into all that, let's answer the top line
question and then get into it. | | 2
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
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15
16
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19 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've | 2
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20 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've
simply never seen before. I mean, there was I | 2
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21 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've
simply never seen before. I mean, there was I
I had never seen some of them. Some of them I had, | 2
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22 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've
simply never seen before. I mean, there was I
I had never seen some of them. Some of them I had,
some of them I hadn't, I mean. | 2
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23 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've
simply never seen before. I mean, there was I
I had never seen some of them. Some of them I had,
some of them I hadn't, I mean.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you so so you're | 2
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22 | DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
the girls.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you I understand you
said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
those those pictures pictures like that
existed?
So right now I'm talking about photographs
of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
know that those photos existed before you got them in
discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
whatever.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've
simply never seen before. I mean, there was I
I had never seen some of them. Some of them I had,
some of them I hadn't, I mean. | 2
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22 | | ![](_page_21_Picture_1.jpeg) 22 (Pages 82 to 85) | | raye oo | rage | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | 1 talking in the '90s, I don't think he was there. | 1 and and someone who's underage. | | | 2 I there's that description. I think that this, | 2 But even with somebody who's an adult, did | | | 3 what you were talking about is a later version. | 3 you know Mr. Epstein to encourage folks to do that, | | | 4 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. And | 4 whether it's a client or somebody else? | | | 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that is that? | 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So with a with a | | | 6 TODD BLANCHE: No. I understand that and | 6 I certainly witnessed him. So if you were staying | | | 7 I do want to talk I'm not | 7 with him and you had a massage that he would often | | | 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it's just I'm I | 8 travel with a masseuse. He would say, hey, would you | | | 9 think you need to separate the periods of time | 9 like a massage? And he did do that, yes. | | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Sure. | 10 TODD BLANCHE: But would you or him or | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: because it | 11 anybody else follow up with the masseuse afterwards, | | | this one of the things that was definitely missing | 12 to find out if there was any inappropriate sexual | | | in my trial, and definitely missing from the | 13 contact? | | | narrative, is this notion, this, everything happened | 14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never did, no. | | | and he was always but no. I don't I don't | 15 TODD BLANCHE: So meaning and then | | | believe that to be true. | 16 coming back to the blackmail issue. | | | TODD BLANCHE: So I mean, that | 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yeah. | | | that's that's fine. And I do want to talk about | 18 TODD BLANCHE: There's nothing wrong wit | | | 19 that, I'm not I'm not pushing that away. I'm | 19 getting a massage, Of course not. Especially, you | | | just putting it aside for a moment. | 20 know, especially if somebody's obviously an adult, a | | | What Mr. Epstein did and and, frankly, | | | | what what you did, or are accused of doing, is one | 22 But my question is that there's a lot of | | | thing that I that we'll talk about, but what | 23 accusations that that one of the way Mr. Maxwell, | | | right now what I want to understand is is whether | | | | one of the ways that Mr. Epstein befriended his | | | F | | | | | Page 87 | Page | | | | | | | 1 clients or or took care of them, or some would say | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never | | | 2 blackmail them, was by encouraging them to have to | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young | | | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never | | | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a
4 crime. | | | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
| | | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  6. TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag
| | | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  6. TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag
  7. of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or
| | | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  6. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  7. TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag
  8. of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or
  9. whomever to get massages and have inappropriate
| | | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  6. TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag
  7. of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or
  8. whomever to get massages and have inappropriate
  9. sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a
| | | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  6. TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag
  7. of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or
  8. whomever to get massages and have inappropriate
  9. sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a
  10. separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but
| | 1 | |
  1. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never
  2. TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young
  3. women and and is a crime. Children are is a
  4. crime.
  5. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely.
  6. TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag
  7. of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or
  8. whomever to get massages and have inappropriate
  9. sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a
  10. separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but
  11. did you ever know him to do that?
| | 1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did | | 1
1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I | | 1
1
1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in | | 1
1
1
1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, | | 1
1
1
1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to | | 1
1
1
1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or | | 1
1
1
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1
1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever | | 1
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1 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever 19 any of that. | | 1
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2 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever 19 any of that. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And when you say, "No one | | 1
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2 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever 19 any of that. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And when you say, "No one 21 reported to me," meaning like the masseuses | | 1
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2 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever 19 any of that. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And when you say, "No one 21 reported to me," meaning like the masseuses 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.< | | 1
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2 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever 19 any of that. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And when you say, "No one 21 reported to me," meaning like the masseuses 23 TODD BLANCHE: or any o | | 1
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2 | | 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never 2 TODD BLANCHE: And yes, young young 3 women and and is a crime. Children are is a 4 crime. 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. 6 TODD BLANCHE: But even women over the ag 7 of 18, if if Mr. Epstein encouraged these men or 8 whomever to get massages and have inappropriate 9 sexual contact with the masseuses, that's that's a 10 separate issue. Maybe maybe slightly nuanced, but 11 did you ever know him to do that? 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I never did 13 absolutely myself. I never heard him ask someone. I 14 never I never heard that. I never no one in 15 the entire time I was with him or friends with him, 16 or had anyone, no one ever reported to me or came to 17 me and said that anything inappropriate happened or 18 was upset by I never saw a tear. I never saw ever 19 any of that. 20 TODD BLANCHE: And when you say, "No one 21 reported to me," meaning like the masseuses 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.< | ![](_page_22_Picture_3.jpeg) 23 (Pages 86 to 89) | | Page 90 | | Page 92 | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | DAVID MARKUS: Or the clients. | 1 | about how the recruiting was a very aggressive effort | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: or the clients | 2 | that you were a part of, that he was a part of, and | | 3 | themselves? | 3 | others, to try to find more and more masseuses. | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. | 4 | What is that is that true, and what | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So so let's | 5 | role did you have in that? | | 6 | again, I want to stay and and coming back now | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was partially | | 7 | to what you were talking about a moment ago with | 7 | true. | | 8 | Mr. Epstein's kind of progression or or or | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 9 | getting worse. So just staying within the '90s. | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it is true that I | | 10 | What role what did what role did you | 10 | found masseuses and he became more insistent. He | | 11 | have or what did you observe which are two | 11 | he he liked new all the time. He got bored. So | | 12 | different issues, but both important with respect | 12 | he would be bored with a masseuse and he would say, | | 13 | to recruiting masseuses to come to either, I guess, | 13 | find me a new masseuse. | | 14 | Palm Beach or to travel, or eventually New Mexico. | 14 | I am the entire opposite. If I find | | 15 | What role did you have in that? | 15 | someone that I like, I stay with them. I'm like, I | | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked me to find | 16 | don't want new. He would drive for new. So that is | | 17 | masseuses for him. | 17 | true. | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Say it again. | 18 | And in my effort to find them, I would go | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked me if I could | 19 | to massage spas, like legitimate spas. Not we're | | 20 | find him masseuses. | 20 | not talking, you know, funky ones that people have. | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Like, as part of | 21 | So and I if I got a massage from | | 22 | like you said, you were his general manager. As part | 22 | somebody in a spa, that was I liked I liked, I | | 23 | of all your your duties, that was one of them? | 23 | asked them if they would do home visits. If they | | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did do that. So | 24 | said yes, I would ask them to come to the house and | | 25 | the first person I believe that I introduced him to | 25 | he would see if he liked them or not. But these were | | | Page 91 | | Page 93 | | 1 | as a masseuse was somebody called DOJ REDACTION. She | 1 | people who worked in spas. I never, ever checked | | 2 | was, I don't know, mid, late 20s. Professional | 2 | their age and I never checked their credentials. I | | 3 | masseuse. | 3 | never asked for a certificate. | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: And was this something that | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: What | | 5 | happened early on in your relationship or and | 5 | DAVID MARKUS: But just to be clear, you | | 6 | again, I know we're talking about the '90s, but are | 6 | never thought anybody was under 18? | | 7 | we talking about early '90s or is this later on? | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never crossed I | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So in terms of | 8 | never no. That was never my that was never a | | 9 | massage, I am a I have a lot of injuries. I do a | 9 | drive. | | 10 | lot of dangerous sports and have had multiple serious | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: What what did you know | | 11 | accidents, and walk without any lameness, because of | 11 | at the time about him, Mr. Epstein, requiring | | 12 | physical therapy and massage. I've that to me is | 12 | masseuses to be naked or requiring masseuses to | | 13 | a very it's medicinal for me. | 13 | either perform sexual favors for Mr. Epstein or to be | | 14 | So Epstein, whatever his massage | 14 | there if Mr. Epstein masturbated or things like that. | | 15 | situation, whatever he loved massage. And if I | 15 | And again, I'm asking you about a 15-year | | 16 | met somebody who I thought was a good masseuse or | 16 | period or whatever, 10-year period. So I appreciate, | | 17 | masseur, I introduced them. | 17 | it's a very broad question. So answer it in a way | | 18 | And he because I got them, and he asked | 18 | that, you know, addresses what you've been charged | | 19 | me if I did, and I said yes. And that's I'm | 19 | with doing, but also what's been said about you. | | 20 | pretty sure that would've well, I don't remember. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I don't | | | | 121 | | | 21 | '93, '92, from the beginning. | 21 | the '90s, I don't think that I ever thought that | | 22 | '93, '92, from the beginning.
TODD BLANCHE: So so go ahead. So then | 22 | never would cross my mind. I'm not sure that I | | 22
23 | '93, '92, from the beginning.
TODD BLANCHE: So so go ahead. So then
what happens over the next, you know, like there's | 22
23 | never would cross my mind. I'm not sure that I
thought about that in those contexts at all, until | | 22 | '93, '92, from the beginning.
TODD BLANCHE: So so go ahead. So then | 22 | never would cross my mind. I'm not sure that I | ![](_page_23_Picture_1.jpeg) 24 (Pages 90 to 93) | | Page 94 | | Page 96 | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | asking me, I believe started in the 2000s. | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: I appreciate. | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: In the 2000 time period? | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So then I think so | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. 2000. | 3 | she she takes up with the local drug dealer and | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Why do you why do you | 4 | she becomes druggie, druggie. Like, you know, how | | 5 | think | 5 | druggies well, maybe you don't. I live with a lot | | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 2000. | 6 | in Tallahassee. They become even more unreliable | | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Like what what in your | 7 | than normal. | | 8 | mind makes you think that that's the time that it | 8 | And at some point, she's now working | | 9 | started? | 9 | somewhere else. He stopped seeing her, because he | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think because in | 10 | doesn't like people who do drugs. And I think that | | 11 | December of 2001, he met DOJ REDACTION And I | 11 | not seeing her lasted five or six months. And in | | 12 | think DOJ REDACTION was responsible for that in | 12 | that period of time, she got arrested for theft, and | | 13 | its entirety. | 13 | she had a warrant out for her arrest. | | 14 | And the reason I believe that, so this | 14 | Now, this I've pieced together because | | 15 | she she was a self-confessed having been sexually | 15 | this piece I didn't know. She then called Epstein | | 16 | abused as a young girl, and was trained her words | 16 | to to have help avoiding the warrant for her | | 17 | I'm quoting now, not mine, in all the arts of | 17 | arrest, and he sent her to Thailand to get a massage | | 18 | whatever that is, the sex program by a man called Ron | 18 | therapy license. This is the bit that I guess. This | | 19 | Eppinger, who was her pimp from when she was 14, I | 19 | is the bit that I extrapolated. | | 20 | believe, or 15, I don't know. | 20 | In the period of time from when she came | | 21 | And in her book describes him training her | 21 | back to when she left, he asked her to replace | | 22 | to be what every man wants in all its manners, | 22 | herself as his masseuse or whatever whatever she | | 23 | fellatio and everything else. I believe that then | 23 | was doing, and she brought the first replacement for | | 24 | what happened was that he met her, and she came as a | 24 | her. That would've been one of the accusers in my | | 25 | masseuse to his house, in December of 2001 is when I | 25 | case, I think, would've been DOJ REDACTION | | | Page 95 | | Page 97 | | 1 | think it started. | 1 | And that and then everyone who came | | 2 | Now, what their relationship was or what | 2 | subsequent to | | 3 | happened with them in that early period of time, I | 3 | wasn't the first, I don't know. Everyone every | | 4 | cannot say. What I can say is that he liked her and | 4 | single person who came to his house, came through | | | | | | | 1.5 | she started to travel with him at that time period | | THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF THE REPORT OF | | 5 | she started to travel with him at that time period. | 5 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever | | 6 | I believe I know, then, what happened | 5
6 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started. | | 6
7 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or | 5
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7 | else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her | | 6
7
8 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or | 5
6 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony | | 6
7
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9 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing | 5
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8 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony is her | | 6
7
8
9
10 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?. | 5
6
7
8
9 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony is her
boyfriend. | | 6
7
8
9 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her | 5
6
7
8
9
10 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony is her | | 6
7
8
9
10
11 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?. | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
is her
boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going | | 6
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8
9
10
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12 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time | 5
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8
9
10
11
12 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
to boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein | | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
to boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses? | | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
to boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage? | | 6
7
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9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I | | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember. | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense | | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember.
From whenever she hits the whatever | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
topfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense
of word, because I'm assuming that you you | | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember.
From whenever she hits the whatever
that is if that's 2000. I think it's 2000. I'm | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
tis her
boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense
of word, because I'm assuming that you you
you you you you said that you have no idea | | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
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20
21 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember.
From whenever she hits the whatever
that is if that's 2000. I think it's 2000. I'm
sorry. I think it's when she met him. December of | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense
of word, because I'm assuming that you you
you you you said that you have no idea
of the year you you always assumed the masseuses | | 6
7
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9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember.
From whenever she hits the whatever
that is if that's 2000. I think it's 2000. I'm
sorry. I think it's when she met him. December of
2000. So so then you go through I don't | 5
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22 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense
of word, because I'm assuming that you you
you you you said that you have no idea
of the year you you always assumed the masseuses
were over age, right? | | 6
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23 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember.
From whenever she hits the whatever
that is if that's 2000. I think it's 2000. Tm
sorry. I think it's when she met him. December of
2000. So so then you go through I don't
remember. You'll have to look. | 5
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23 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense
of word, because I'm assuming that you you
you you you you said that you have no idea
of the year you you always assumed the masseuses
were over age, right?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did.
TODD BLANCHE: So when I'm talking about
abuse, I'm even talking about an adult masseuse who | | 6
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22 | I believe I know, then, what happened
was that she when she first started to see him or
first came into his orbit as his masseuse or
whatever, she was engaged to be married and wearing
an engagement ring, and was living with her fianc?.
She broke up after a few months, with her
fianc?, and took up with the local drug dealer. So
let's say after four or five months of in the time
period when she was seeing Epstein, let's say we're
now May, June of 2002 or is it 2000. I can't
remember.
From whenever she hits the whatever
that is if that's 2000. I think it's 2000. I'm
sorry. I think it's when she met him. December of
2000. So so then you go through I don't
remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I'm not holding you | 5
6
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22 | and her boyfriend, Tony, and then whoever
else underneath her. And that is how it started.
TODD BLANCHE: So before her
LEAH SAFFIAN: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tony
boyfriend.
TODD BLANCHE: Before her so now going
back in the '90s. You don't believe that Mr. Epstein
was abusing masseuses?
DAVID MARKUS: Underage?
TODD BLANCHE: Or over age? I mean, I
think well, I'm using abuse in the broadest sense
of word, because I'm assuming that you you
you you you said that you have no idea
of the year you you said that you have no idea
of the year you you always assumed the masseuses
were over age, right?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did.
TODD BLANCHE: So when I'm talking about | ![](_page_24_Picture_3.jpeg) 25 (Pages 94 to 97) | | Page 98 | | Page 100 | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | they don't take off their clothes. Basically | 1 | off the side. | | 2 | suggested they had to watch him masturbate. Like the | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 3 | things that have been publicly said about what he | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: And then you mentioned some | | 4 | did. | 4 | other people. You mentioned President Clinton | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not — | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: For now I'm not I'm not | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: you mentioned President | | 7 | distinguishing adults or — or — or young or | 7 | Trump early on. | | 8 | underage women for that. I'm saying abuse. | 8 | Who were other famous/politicians, who | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm I'm going to | 9 | were other individuals in Mr. Epstein's life during | | 10 | think that that would've been a habit. | 10 | that time period? So the early '90s — | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was the '90s. | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm going to say that | 12 | Let's — should we just - | | 13 | the massage game was a habit. And I think — | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Yes. | | 14 | DAVID MARKUS: What does that mean? | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Congressman | | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That means that I'm | 15 | McMillen. | | 16 | sure that he didn't suddenly start having relations | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Say it again. | | 17 | with masseuses in 2002. | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: McMillen. | | 18 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am sure he must have | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Henry Rosovsky, who | | 20 | had relations with masseuses, who knows when. | 20 | was the provost of Harvard. Hang on (Indiscernible). | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: But you're saying, as far | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Sure. You're looking at | | 22 | as you I I used the word abuse. You're saying | 22 | your — your — your notes. | | 23 | that as far as you sit here today, you would describe | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 24 | that more as consensual? Meaning the masseuse did | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. Go ahead. | | 25 | those did this willingly? | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Joe Pagano. Jerry | | | Page 99 | | Page 101 | | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I saw him with | 1 | Goldsmith, Joe M,
Kenny Lipper, Dan Abramson. | | 2 | lots of masseuses. I never saw a single masseuse | 2 | I don't know if in the '90s Tom Pritzker, | | | ever look unhappy or not come back or whatever. So | | | | 3 | | 3 | Ace, Jimmy Cayne, Lou Ranieri. I mean, there were | | 4 | based on my observation, I don't think that if you | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: What about the | | 5 | are being raped, as now he's like this prolific — I | 5 | family? | | 6 | just —I just can't imagine why you would return. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. He didn't know | | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: That's not what you | 7 | them in the '90s. | | 8 | observed at the time? | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: What about the — the — | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not what I observed at | | what about Prince Andrew? | | 10 | the time, no. | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Didn't know him in the | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: I want to we're we're | 11 | '90s. | | 12 | going to spend a little we're going to spend more | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: When did | | 13 | time on this issue, because I I think it's | 13 | well — is that
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: | | 14 | important. But just going back to kind of the — the | 14 | right? | | 15 | question that I started with in this area, which is | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: I wouldn't know. I do not | | 16 | that it ties into the blackmail issue. | 16 | know. So I don't want you to have to worry about | | 17 | So we talked about people that were his | 17 | exact dates. You're you're not positive about | | 18 | clients, and you've mentioned President Clinton, and | 18 | that. But you don't have a specific recollection of | | 19 | then early on | 19 | that being in the '90s? | | 20 | 1 never said he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 21 | was a client. | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: I — I did not say you
said. I'm saying when you talk about his clients. | 22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I can I can | | 24
25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M, okay. Right. | 24
25 | date it for you, I think, but I can't give you
TODD BLANCHE: That's okay. I think | ![](_page_25_Picture_1.jpeg) 26 (Pages 98 to 101) | | Page 102 | | Page 104 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | So with respect to just and we'll | 1 | traveled. There was that, you know, the plane, they | | 2 | we'll take a break in a minute to get some food. But | 2 | went on the plane 26 times or whatever. That would | | 3 | just with respect to Mr with respect to the | 3 | be one journey. | | 4 | individuals you just talked about. So again, focus | 4 | So they spent time on the plane together, | | 5 | on the '90s. | 5 | and I don't believe there was ever a massage on the | | 6 | And so the people that I'm talking about | 6 | plane. So that would've been the only time that I | | 7 | right now, and we might add some names later. So | 7 | think that President Clinton could have even received | | 8 | we're talking about the the clients that he worked | 8 | a massage. And he didn't, because I was there. | | 9 | with, which you've mentioned several of. And I know | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: And you mentioned that | | 10 | that that wasn't exhaustive, but you mentioned | 10 | early in the very beginning of the conversation, | | 11 | several of them. | 11 | you mentioned President Trump in the early '90s. | | 12 | And then the the kind of what what I | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 13 | called famous friends, but the the prominent | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: What what's what did | | 14 | individuals that were in his life in the '90s. | 14 | you observe, as far as President Trump, and his | | 15 | Did did does any stick out in your mind as | 15 | relationship with you or Mr. Epstein? | | 16 | having received massages? All of them. | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I just want to | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Henry Rosovsky | 17 | say for my relationship with President Trump | | 18 | received a massage. | 18 | relationship's a big word but I just want to say | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: And why do you why does | 19 | that I met him or I believe I may have, because of my | | 20 | that stick out in your memory? | 20 | father in the '90s. | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I saw him in a | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep. Okay. | | 22 | bathrobe at 71st Street, and he had received a | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So my father liked him | | 23 | massage, he told me. | 23 | very much, and he was loved really liked his wife | | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether | 24 | as well, because we were both Czechoslovakian. | | 25 | that whether there was any whether the masseuse | 25 | And as far as I'm concerned, President | | 2.5 | | 2.5 | | | | | | Derice 10E | | 1 | Page 103 | 1 | Page 105 | | 1 | was naked during that massage? | 1 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me. | | 2 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any | 2 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire | | 2
3 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea. | 2
3 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the | | 2
3
4 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he | 2
3
4 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked | | 2
3
4
5 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was | 2
3
4
5 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire | | 2
3
4
5
6 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s. | 2
3
4
5
6 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Say it again. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's | | 2
3
4
5
6
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8 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Say it again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was | 2
3
5
6
7
8 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him? | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Say it again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Say it again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So but do you | 2
3
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7
8
9
10 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
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11 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Say it again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So but do you
know notwithstanding his age | 2
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
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12 | was naked during that massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't have any
idea.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Say it again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I doubt it. He was
like in his 80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So but do you
know notwithstanding his age
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Minsky, sorry. | 2
3
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6
7
8
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12 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were | | 2
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13 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly. | | 2
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14 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings | | 2
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15 | | 2
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15 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings? | | 2
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15
16 | | 2
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16 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever | | 2
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17 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any | | 2
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18 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings. | | 2
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5
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7
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19 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever have you | | 2
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20 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever have you
ever been to Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach? | | 2
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21 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever have you
ever been to Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have. | | 2
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22 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever have you
ever been to Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have.
TODD BLANCHE: In what time period are you | | 2
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23 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever have you
ever been to Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have.
TODD BLANCHE: In what time period are you
thinking about when you say yes? | | 2
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22 | Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me.
And I just want to say that I find I I admire
his extraordinary achievement in becoming the
President now. And I like him, and I've always liked
him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire
relationship with him.
TODD BLANCHE: What about Mr. Epstein's
relationship with him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know how they
met, and I don't know how they became friends. I
certainly saw them together and I remember the few
times I observed them together, but they were
friendly. I mean, they seemed friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Was that in social settings
or was that in private settings?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I only ever
saw them in social settings. I don't recall any
private settings.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever have you
ever been to Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have.
TODD BLANCHE: In what time period are you | ![](_page_26_Picture_1.jpeg) 27 (Pages 102 to 105) | 2 love
3 | Page 106 | | Page 108 | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 2 love
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4 alor | rned into the club, I went there and I was | 1 | think you saw, in person, President Trump? | | 3
4 alor | ed going there. | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Um, it was it's | | 4 alor | TODD BLANCHE: Did you did you go there | 3 | it's been a long time. Probably not sometime in | | 1 | ne or with Mr. Epstein? | 4 | the beginning mid mid 2000s maybe. And it | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mostly alone. | 5 | would only have been a social setting, as far as I | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know where | 6 | recall. | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And the times I went | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: And did you ever hear | | 1 | re it was for an event, maybe once or twice. | 8 | Mr. Epstein or anybody say that President Trump had | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether | 9 | done anything inappropriate with masseuses or with | | | Epstein ever went there? | 10 | anybody in your world? | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I believe he did, | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely never, in | | 1 | again, we really were he he didn't take me | 12 | any context. | | | h him all the time. So he would go and | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | | | nt. He never I never well, he did from time | 14 | masseuses from Mar-a-Lago's spa ended up giving | | | ime, but he would go alone. I think he would | 15 | massages to private massages to Mr. Epstein? I'm | | | ybe go himself to the spa. I certainly did. | 16 | not asking for what you may have read, but from at | | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe | 17 | the time, from your personal knowledge, do you know | | 1 | sident Trump receive a massage? | 18 | whether that's true? | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I don't I | | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe you | 20 | don't recall. Is it possible? Yes. But I don't | | | I that you you were I mean, have you seen | 21 | remember I don't remember that. So I don't want | | | there's photographs, public photographs of | 22 | to I don't recall that, but it's possible. | | | Epstein and President Trump together. | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you have a recollection | | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 24 | of you ever recruiting a masseuse from Mar-a-Lago spa | | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: And there's photographs | 25 | to give to go give a private massage to | | | Page 107 | | Page 109 | | | | | | | 1 of- | - I think you're you're in some of the | 1 | | | | - I think you're you're in some of the | 1 2 | Mr. Epstein? | | 2 pho | otographs | 2 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a | | 2 pho
3 | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I | | 2 pho
3
4 | OTOGRAPHS
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all | 2 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app | Otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings. | 2
3
4 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I | | 2 pho
3
4 | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6 | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you | 2
3
4
5
6 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8 | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer | Otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mei
10 Eps | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my | 2
3
4
5
7
8
9 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mei
10 Eps
11 Pres | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mei
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.) | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pres
12 war
13 with
14 | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 men
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14 | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
int to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pres
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pres | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pre:
18 in h | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him
his house, for instance. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pre:
18 in h
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that
part of your of your life with Mr. Epstein. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pre:
18 in h
19
20 type | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him
his house, for instance. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that
part of your of your life with Mr. Epstein.
There's been public reporting about | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pre:
18 in h
19
20 type
21 Pre: | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him
his house, for instance.
I actually never saw the President in any
e of massage setting. I never witnessed the
sident in any inappropriate setting in any way. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that
part of your of your life with Mr. Epstein. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pres
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pres
18 in h
19
20 type
21 Pres
22 The | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him
his house, for instance.
I actually never saw the President in any
e of massage setting. I never witnessed the
sident in any inappropriate setting in any way.
e President was never inappropriate with anybody. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that
part of your of your life with Mr. Epstein.
There's been public reporting about
conduct by Mr. Epstein and others at Little Saint
James. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pre:
18 in h
19
20 type
21 Pre:
22 The
23 In t | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him
his house, for instance.
I actually never saw the President in any
e of massage setting. I never witnessed the
sident in any inappropriate setting in any way.
e President was never inappropriate with anybody.
he times that I was with him, he was a gentleman | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that
part of your of your life with Mr. Epstein.
There's been public reporting about
conduct by Mr. Epstein and others at Little Saint
James.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2 pho
3
4
5 app
6
7
8
9 mer
10 Eps
11 Pre:
12 war
13 with
14
15 in s
16 wer
17 Pre:
18 in h
19
20 type
21 Pre:
22 The
23 In t | otographs
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: as well. Those all
bear to be social settings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's that's my
mory. They were social settings. I don't know
stein's if he had whatever the nature of the
sident's friendship, if you will, or however you
nt to define that with Epstein, I was never
nessed.
I think they were friendly like people are
social settings. I don't I don't think they
re close friends or I certainly never witnessed the
sident in any of I don't recall ever seeing him
his house, for instance.
I actually never saw the President in any
e of massage setting. I never witnessed the
sident in any inappropriate setting in any way.
e President was never inappropriate with anybody. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never recruited a
masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I
remember. I can't ever recollect doing that.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So what what I
think we should do now, it's about 12:15. We'll take
a we'll take a break and we will come back in a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
(Break at 12:15 p.m. to 12:59 p.m.)
SPENCER HORN: Good afternoon. We are
continuing the recorded proffer interview of
Ms. Maxwell. The time is 12:59, Thursday, July 24th.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So just to continue
what we're talking about, Ms. Maxwell, still focused
on the '90s time period with understanding that
could spill over in the early 2000s. But still that
part of your of your life with Mr. Epstein.
There's been public reporting about
conduct by Mr. Epstein and others at Little Saint
James. | ![](_page_27_Picture_1.jpeg) 28 (Pages 106 to 109) | | Page 110 | | Page 112 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | of those some of the reporting, namely around | 1 | And he tasked me with finding a local | | 2 | young masseuses or young women who would be present | 2 | masseuse for him in St. , because sometimes, | | 3 | and what you observed | 3 | even though I say he would always travel with an | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 4 | entourage, sometimes he didn't, and he wanted to have | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: relating to them, and | 5 | a massage locally. | | 6 | then I'll ask questions around that. | 6 | So I visited the mass the spas that | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So if I'm right, he | 7 | were local in St. and in St. John. And if I | | 8 | purchased the island in 1996 and he was friendly with | 8 | met someone, a man or a woman, actually, because it | | 9 | the owners. And originally, we went to the island as | 9 | was difficult to find somebody in St. | | 10 | guests of the owners. And then I guess at some point | 10 | not exactly, you know. So, and I did find a couple | | 11 | the owners told him he they wanted to sell and | 11 | of people who would come. | | 12 | he decided to purchase it. | 12 | So that's how they came, because also it | | 13 | So the island was very rustic. I loved | 13 | was a schlep. So if you had somebody who came, it | | 14 | it. He, of course, had completely different ideas. | 14 | would be you would have to, you know, boat ride | | 15 | And I would say there was none of what you were | 15 | and you several hours. It wasn't just a it's | | 16 | describing at that early period of time. | 16 | not like arriving with your massage table and stuff. | | 17 | So the frequency was was often. We're | 17 | So there was that. So I did do that. | | 18 | often on the island, because he loved it. He really, | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So did, over the years, | | 19 | really loved it. And we would, we would go all | 19 | males also give massages to Mr. Epstein? | | 20 | the time. Mostly all the early phase was based on | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I did say, I | | 21 | improvements that could be made on the island. | 21 | don't think at the beginning, definitely. And I | | 22 | Always going with new architects, new | 22 | would say towards sort of, again, late '90s, I don't | | 23 | designers, new construction people. I'd say the | 23 | remember any men. They were at the beginning, I | | 24 | first two years, almost every trip, not every one, | 24 | think in that towards the late '90s, I cannot | | 25 | but almost every trip contained some an individual | 25 | think of any men. I only think of women. | | | | | | | | Page 111 | | Page 113 | | 1 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk | | 2 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about | | 2
3 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was | | 2
3
4 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be. | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at | | 2
3
4
5 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane? | | 2
3
4
5
6 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word. | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now
he started to travel with more, always a masseuse. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would
be there was a bedroom and an office. So if that | | 2
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20 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now
he started to travel with more, always a masseuse.
Whereas in the past it wasn't always a masseuse or
always an instructor. There was now starting to be | 2
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20 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would
be there was a bedroom and an office. So if that
door was shut, you wouldn't see it. | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
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13
14
15
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19
20
21 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
the island," because I don't think you could improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now
he started to travel with more, always a masseuse.
Whereas in the past it wasn't always a masseuse or
always an instructor. There was now starting to be
always an individual or a friend or whatever. | 2
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21 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would
be there was a bedroom and an office. So if that
door was shut, you wouldn't see it.
TODD BLANCHE: But do you so if you | | 2
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22 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now
he started to travel with more, always a masseuse.
Whereas in the past it wasn't always a masseuse or
always an instructor. There was now starting to be
always an individual or a friend or whatever.
There's always a, like, maybe the word | 2
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would
be there was a bedroom and an office. So if that
door was shut, you wouldn't see it.
TODD BLANCHE: But do you so if you
never so but you never observed Mr. Epstein | | 2
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7
8
9
10
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15
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19
20
21 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now
he started to travel with more, always a masseuse or
always an instructor. There was now starting to be
always an individual or a friend or whatever.
There's always a, like, maybe the word
would be entourage, but these were always people in | 2
3
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6
7
8
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13
14
15
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20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would
be there was a bedroom and an office. So if that
door was shut, you wouldn't see it.
TODD BLANCHE: But do you so if you
never so but you never observed Mr. Epstein
engaging in sex or getting a massage with somebody | | 2
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7
8
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21
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23 | who would be brought on board to have an opinion as
to how to I don't want to use the word "improve
it, but to I can't think what the word would be.
To what's the word I'm looking for? To develop
it. Sorry. That's the word.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Develop develop the
island. That's the word I'm looking for.
So so there were trips, constant trips
with that in mind. And I would say now if we are
moving to the late '90s, '96, '97 I definitely
witnessed a progression in Mr. Epstein's behavior,
and a modification, if you will.
Where in the past, in the early '90s, I
don't remember traveling so much with other people.
There would be a masseuse or a yoga person, but now
he started to travel with more, always a masseuse.
Whereas in the past it wasn't always a masseuse or
always an instructor. There was now starting to be
always an individual or a friend or whatever.
There's always a, like, maybe the word | 2
3
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6
7
8
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12
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23 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you well, you talk
about entourage flying, right now we're talking about
to the island. Did you observe any sexual, I was
going to say misconduct, but any sexual any sex at
all whatsoever on the plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never on the plane,
no.
TODD BLANCHE: Was there a part of the
plane that was closed off from others where
Mr. Epstein could go and get a massage or whatever?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. Okay. So
that's a good question. So there were two planes.
So you had the there was a Gulfstream, and that's
open plan. So anything I mean, there was a sofa
that turned into a bed. And he did sleep on that.
And then but in the Boeing, which he
flew on a lot, there was his area could be closed
off with a door. And behind that door there would
be there was a bedroom and an office. So if that
door was shut, you wouldn't see it.
TODD BLANCHE: But do you so if you
never so but you never observed Mr. Epstein | ![](_page_28_Picture_1.jpeg) 29 (Pages 110 to 113) | 1 | Page 114 | | Page 116 | |----------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't say that. I | 1 | progression or change, let's focus on that time | | 2 | might have | 2 | period, so the more towards the late '90s. | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The testosterone. | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I definitely might, | 4 | Yeah, okay. | | 5 | either both in the Gulfstream or in the | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: So '96, '97, '98, you know, | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 6 | toward | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: in the I'm sure | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. | | 8 | I did, but it's not I can't | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: when you've said that he | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: That's fair. | 9 | changed. Did you know flat out that he was having | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I'm absolutely | 10 | sex or otherwise some sort of sexual conduct with | | 11 | sure I did. I must have, because, you know, he was | 11 | masseuses regularly? | | 12 | so obsessed of someone rubbing his feet or just | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Flat out? No, I | | 13 | when you ask me about massages, I want to be clear. | 13 | denied that. I couldn't imagine that he would but I | | 14 | I generally what I think of that is | 14 | think looking back now, that I did not. But I | | 15 | somebody on a massage table, but other people might | 15 | started to suspect that he was not faithful. Seems | | 16 | think of it as something different. You know, you | 16 | ludicrous but that's what I thought. | | 17 | could have someone rubbing his feet or his shoulder. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: But if look, if if | | 18 | I saw that all the time. That I did. But sep | 18 | he's flying from Palm Beach to to St. or if | | 19 | that's separate from being on a massage table. | 19 | he's flying all over the country to New Mexico or to | | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: How again, I know we're | 20 | New York, or even in Palm Beach and there's young | | 21 | talking about a decade-long period, but during the | 21 | women, putting aside whether they're under the age of | | 22 | period we're talking about, in a seven-day week, how | 22 | 18 or in their 20s, every day at the house, multiple | | 23 | often would Mr. Epstein get a massage? | 23 | masseuses multiple massages on some days, you're | | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In the '90s, when | 24 | interacting with the masseuses constantly. | | 25 | we're talking, he would get one every day. I think, | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Huh? | | | Page 115 | | Page 117 | | 1 | as that time progressed, he would get one, maybe | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Or maybe that's not right. | | 2 | twice a day. I do want to say that there was maybe a | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's not right. | | 3 | reason that things altered or morphed or progressed, | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Let me take back what I | | 4 | and it is maybe part of the reason, also, that I | 4 | just said. Ignore that part. | | 5 | he and I, our relationship or have a, somebody wants | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 6 | to call it altered. | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: But you understand that he | | 7 | And he started doing testosterone and that | 7 | is getting massages every day, sometimes multiple | | 8 | altered his character. And I believe that started in | 8 | times a day. The by the late '90s, it's all | | 9 | the late '90s. And I believe that the FBI has his | 9 | women, presumably they're some of them are new, | | 10 | medical records and you may see that on his medical | 10 | but they're also repeat masseuses. | | 11 | records. Yes. | 11 | What did you I mean, you had to know at | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: So you believe that he | 12 | that point that there was something going on beyond | | 13 | started taking testosterone in the '90s, and when you | 13 | just, he really needed to get massaged. | | 14 | say that altered his behavior, you're saying it | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So very fair | | | | 15 | question There's two things. The first is the | | 15 | wanted to made him get more massages or that was | | question. There's two things. The first is the | | 16 | just one part of what changed about him? | 16 | person that he saw the most at that period of time | | 16
17 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more | 16
17 | person that he saw the most at that period of time was in her 40s. | | 16
17
18 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive. | 16
17
18 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | | 16
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18
19 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive.
TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 16
17
18
19 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And she was with him | | 16
17
18
19
20 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive.
TODD BLANCHE: I see.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think that he | 16
17
18
19
20 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And she was with him
all the time. And I'm, like, married as well | | 16
17
18
19
20
21 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive.
TODD BLANCHE: I see.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think that he
maybe well, now I'm just imagining that the | 16
17
18
19
20
21 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And she was with him
all the time. And I'm, like, married as well
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive.
TODD BLANCHE: I see.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think that he
maybe well, now I'm just imagining that the
testosterone altered his desires or something, does | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And she was with him
all the time. And I'm, like, married as well
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as I'm square. | | 16
17
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19
20
21
22
23 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive.
TODD BLANCHE: I see.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think that he
maybe well, now I'm just imagining that the
testosterone altered his desires or something, does
that | 16
17
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19
20
21
22
23 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And she was with him
all the time. And I'm, like, married as well
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as I'm square.
And it never occurred well, I don't believe it | | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | just one part of what changed about him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he became more
aggressive.
TODD BLANCHE: I see.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think that he
maybe well, now I'm just imagining that the
testosterone altered his desires or something, does | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | person that he saw the most at that period of time
was in her 40s.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And she was with him
all the time. And I'm, like, married as well
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as I'm square. | ![](_page_29_Picture_1.jpeg) 30 (Pages 114 to 117) | 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the
first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? 9 about the age of the masseuses over the years. It
I think in my mind, there's a difference between yov
knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under to
age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you
knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu
the underage person or made her strip or somethim
the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met
to me about I could it never occurred to me. 10 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my
life experience where somebody would be so
manipulative and devious with me. I just - and
21 10 Whether you believe that nobody that came to give
massages, none of the women were under 18 or thi
div'n focus on their age, but you you were more
focused on whether any underage woman was abu:
him. 21 I didn't have - i just and I was happy
22 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's betto
answer this question with coroborating evidence a
then go back and explain, so that I frame
24 23 there's all kinds of press around his purported
3 10 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned
25 25 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, V8,
3 20 26 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about
3 10 3 of what I'm saying. Of the my understand,
number. 10 4 TODD BLANCHE: What was in the
3 10 5 | | Page 118 | | Page 12 | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----|------------------------------------------------------|----|-------------------------------------------------------| | 2 and that with at that time in the '90s period. TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: along with al 4 he didn't he had difficulty having an creation, and I believed him. 6 TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that, you mean he regularly told you that? Like he 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When I first because when I din't have sex with him after the 9 because when I din't have sex with him after the 10 first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? 11 And I had never, up until this moment in 12 And I had never, up until this moment in 13 my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over 16 or understood that somebody could be so would lie 17 time were somebody would be so 18 I didn't have a frame of context within mat 19 life experience where somebody would be so 10 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 11 How as trape of an dom'n a some tor didn't have a rassteed and charged and 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 2 so fast forward just f | 1 | that was the person he had the most massages, yoga, | 1 | register, because | | 3 The second thing is that is he told me 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: along with al 4 he didn't - he had difficulty having an erection, and I believed him. 6 and I believed him. salacious and other allegations came out, I knew w 6 TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that, you mean he regularly told you that? Like he 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the 10 Think the res' as alocious and other allegations came out, I knew w 12 And I had never, up until this moment in my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 13 my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 10 14 rev had an excellent education. I traveled all over 11 15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 12 16 or understood that somebody could be so - would lite 16 16 or understood that somebody would be so - would lite 16 16 the didn't have a frame of context within my 18 19 life experience where somebody would be so 16 10 manupulative and devious with me. I just and I was happy 11 10 not have ex, because I have a ondition that 12 < | 2 | | 2 | | | 4 he didn't he had difficulty having an erection, 4 those well, not in 2006, but later when the more 5 and I believed him. 5 6 TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that, 7 7 you mean he regularly told you that? Like he 6 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When I first 6 9 because when I din't have ex with him after the 7 10 first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? 10 11 And I had never, up until this moment in 10 12 And had boyfriends, but I had never met 14 14 first stime, and it cok so I asked him, was it me? 11 14 Tve had an excellent education. I traveled all over 12 age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you 14 to me about I could it never occurred to me. 11 fifst time, and it some were more 19 life experience where somebody would be so 19 focuse on their age, but you you were more 10 plus, 1 just didn't have er - just and 10 massages, none of the women were under 18 or thim. 20 plus, 1 just didn't have er - just and 10 massages, none of the women | | 1 | 3 | | | 5 and I believed him. 5 salacious and other allegations came out, I knew w 6 TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that, 6 utterly false, which then just reinforced my belief 7 mean he regularly told you that? Like he 6 6 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the 9 about the age of the masseuses over the years. It 11 And I had never, up until this moment in 11 11 11 11 there's a difference between yo 12 And I had never, up until this moment in 12 age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you 14 Tve had an excellent education. I traveled all over 11 knowing or not knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu 15 the about I could it never occurred to me. 12 like that, meaning and I want to understand 16 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 12 focused on whether any underage woman was abu 11 binm. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I that. 12 12 root at that point, did you you were reading about women who 6 6 12 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding interviewed 44 women, it a 's say, or around | | e e | | | | 6 TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that, 6 utterly false, which then just reinforced my belief 7 you mean he regularly told you that? Like he 7 that the rest was no true. 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the 7 TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a quest 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the 9 about the age of the masseuses over the years. It 10 I think in ym inid, there's a difference between yo knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under the 12 And I had never, up until this moment in age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you 13 my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 12 14 Ive havd an excellent education. I traveled all over 13 knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give massages, none of the worne were under 18 or that 16 I didn't have a frame of context within my 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give 19 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 11 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's betta | | | | | | 7 you mean he regularly told you that? Like he 7 that the rest was not true. 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When I first 7 TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a quest about the age of the masseuses over the years. It 9 And I had never, up until this moment in 10 11 think in my mind, there's a difference between you knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under tage of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you 11 Mole told me it was him. 10 11 think in my mind, there's a difference between you knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu 12 And I had never, up until this moment in 12 age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you 13 my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 14 the underage person or made her strip or something 14 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 16 ike that, meaning and I want to understand 16 rounderstood that somebody could be so 17 massages, none of the women were under 18 or that didn't focus on their age, but you you were more 11 I didn't have a rame of context within my 18 didn't focus on their age, but you you were more 12 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 focus on whether any underage woman was abu 12 moto have se | | | | | | 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the
first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? 9 about the age of the masseuses over the years. It
I think in my mind, there's a difference between ye
knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under to
age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you
knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu
the underage person or made her strip or somethim
to world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met
for understood that somebody could be so would lie
or understood that somebody could be so would lie
to me about I could it never occurred to me. 10 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my
life experience where somebody would be so
manipulative and devious with me. I just - and
21 10 21 plus, I just didn't have 1 just and I was thave 2 to
mot to have sex, because I have a condition that
doesn't lend itself to that. 20 23 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08,
sense at that point, did you
accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make
sense at that point,
didn't that's I only read what was in the
newsparess. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm
didn't that's I only read what was in the
newsparess. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm
embarrasset to say it, I didn't I didn't believe
it. 10 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I
didn't that's I only read what was in the
newsparess. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm
embarrasset to say it, I didn't I didn't believe
it. 10 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I
didn't that's I only read what wasin the
newsparess. I didn't have any other thing. And | 7 | | 7 | | | 9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the
first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? 9 about the age of the masseuses over the years. It
I think in my mind, there's a difference between yov
knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under t 10 And I had never, up until this moment in
my life, I - as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 10 I think in my mind, there's a difference between yov
knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under t 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over
to me about I could it never occurred to me. 10 knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu
knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu
the underage person or made her strip or something
whether you believe that nobody that came to give
manipulative and devious with me. I just - and 16 I didn't have a frame of context within my 16 17 manipulative and devious with me. I just - and 10 18 I didn't have - i just and I was happy 10 19 life experience where somebody would be so 10 21 plus, I just didn't have 1 just and I was happy 10 21 not have sex, because I have a condition that 20 22 not bave sex, because I have a condition that 21 23 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 11 24 TODD BLANC | 8 | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question | | 10 first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? 10 I think in my mind, there's a difference between you knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under t 11 And I had never, up until this moment in 12 age of I8 and coming to give a massage, and you 13 my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 13 knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under t 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over 14 the undersge person or made her strip or something 15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 10 the undersge person or made her strip or something 16 or understood that somebody could be so 10 the undersge person or made her strip or something 17 to me about I could it never occurred to me. 17 massages, none of the women were under 18 or tha 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 10 focused on whether any undersge woman was abus 19 focused on whether any undersge woman was abus 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's bette 20 not have sex, because I have a condition that 22 answer this question with corroborating evidence a 21 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 10 of what I'm saying. Of the my understandi | 9 | because when I didn't have sex with him after the | 9 | about the age of the masseuses over the years. It | | 12 And I had never, up until this moment in 12 age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you 13 my life, I - as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 13 knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over 13 knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over 14 the underage person or made her strip or something 15 Itke that, meaning and I wan to understand 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give 16 or understood that somebody could be so would lie 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give a massage, and you 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give a massage, none of the women were under 18 or thi 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 10 focused on whether any understanding evidence a 21 plus, I just didn't have - I just and I was happy 21 answer this question with corroborating evidence a 22 that yoint at flat point, did you - 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's bett 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understand | 10 | first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me? | 10 | I think in my mind, there's a difference between you | | 13 my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. 13 knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abu 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over 14 the underage person or made her strip or something 15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 15 like that, meaning and I want to understand 16 or understood that somebody could be so would lie 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give 17 to me about I could it never occurred to me. 17 massages, none of the women were under 18 or that 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 didn't focus on their age, but you you were more 19 life experience where somebody would be so 19 focused on whether any underage woman was abus 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 him. 21 plus, I just didn't have I just and I was happy 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's bette 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 22 answer this question with corroborating evidence at 25 sfast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 11 And he told me it was him. 11 knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under the | 11 | And he told me it was him. | 11 | knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under the | | 14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over 14 the underage person or made her strip or something 15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 15 like that, meaning and I want to understand 16 or understood that somebody could be so would lie 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 whether you believe that nobody that came to give 19 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 massages, none of the women were under 18 or that 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 him. 21 plus, I just didn't have - I just and I was happy 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's bette 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 22 ot have sex, because I have a condition that 22 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 24 there's all kinds of press around his purported 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 25 sense at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 3 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 TODD B | 12 | And I had never, up until this moment in | 12 | age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you | | 15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 15 like that, meaning and I want to understand 16 or understood that somebody could be so would lie 16 masages, none of the women were under 18 or thin 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 like that, meaning and I want to understand 19 life experience where somebody would be so 19 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 masages, none of the women were under 18 or thin 21 plus, I just didn't have a rondition that 20 answer this question with corroborating evidence a 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 25 25 of ast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 2 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 3 contact, at that point, '' was true? Meaning, did it make 5 sense at that point, '' was true? 1 6 | 13 | my life, I as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. | 13 | knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abused | | 16 or understood that somebody could be so would lie 16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give 17 to me about I could it never occurred to me. 17 18 I din't have a frame of context within my 18 19 life experience where somebody would be so 19 19 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 18 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 18 21 plus, I just didn't have I just and I was happy 21 22 not to have sex, because I have a condition that 22 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 23 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 25 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 2 3 contact, at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say 2008, they had 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 10 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 3 5 senat at point, did you 10 | 14 | I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over | 14 | the underage person or made her strip or something | | 17 to me about I could it never occurred to me. 17 massages, none of the women were under 18 or that 18 I didn't have a frame of context within my 18 didn't focus on their age, but you you were more 19 life experience where somebody would be so 19 focused on whether any underage woman was abus 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 21 plus, I just didn't have I just and I was happy 20 22 not to have sex, because I have a condition that 22 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 23 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's bette 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 Of time period and he's arrested and charged and 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 1 3 contact, at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 sense at that point, did you think to yourself, 8 9 15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met 15 like that, meaning and I want to understand | 15 | the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met | 15 | like that, meaning and I want to understand | | 18I didn't have a frame of context within my18didn't focus on their age, but you you were more
focused on whether any underage woman was abus
focused on whether any underage woman was abus
focused on whether any underage woman was abus
him.20manipulative and devious with me. I just and
plus, I just didn't have I just and I was happy
22
a not to have sex, because I have a condition that
23
doesn't lend itself to that.
2420him.23doesn't lend itself to that.
TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned
2522answer this question with corroborating evidence a
then go back and explain, so that I frame
2425so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08,25GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding
that in 2000 and, let's say 2008, they had
interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that
number.26vaccept that that was true? Meaning, did it make
sense at that point,
of uid you think to yourself,
well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about
it or no?1of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding
that in 2000 and, let's say 2008, they had
interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that
number.26TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to
understand, not a single report. And it's not
because they never met me, they never saw me,
they never interacted with me. So to go back to
a question, it's not that I thought one way or anoth
it's that I didn't see them.27didn't that's I only read what was in the
a newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm
term1328it.TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | 16 | or understood that somebody could be so would lie | 16 | whether you believe that nobody that came to give | | 19 life experience where somebody would be so 19 focused on whether any underage woman was abused in the source of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the secure of the sec | | to me about I could it never occurred to me. | 17 | massages, none of the women were under 18 or that you | | 20 manipulative and devious with me. I just and 20 him. 21 plus, I just didn't have I just and I was happy 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's better answer this question with corroborating evidence answer this question with corroborating evidence answer this question with corroborating evidence answer this question with corroborating evidence answer this question with corroborating evidence and the go back and explain, so that I frame 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 3 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 3 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 5 sense at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 10 it or no? 11 They didn't mention me in their report 12 didn't that's I didn't believe 12 they never interacted with me. So to go back to 13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm 14 embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe 15 | 18 | I didn't have a frame of context within my | 18 | didn't focus on their age, but you you were more | | 21 plus, I just didn't have I just and I was happy 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's better answer this question with corroborating evidence and then go back and explain, so that I frame 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 22 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 Page 119 1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 1 2 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 sense at that point? 6 When you were reading about women who 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 it or no? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm 14 embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe 15 life experience where somebody would be so19focused on whether any underage woman was abused by | | life experience where somebody would be so | 19 | focused on whether any underage woman was abused by | | 22 not to have sex, because I have a condition that 22 answer this question with corroborating evidence a then go back and explain, so that I frame 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 23 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 Page 119 1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 2 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 2 3 contact, at that point, at that point, did you 3 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 1 5 sense at that point? 5 6 When you were reading about women who 7 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 8 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 10 it or no? 11 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 12 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 12 13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. An | | manipulative and devious with me. I just and | 20 | him. | | 23 doesn't lend itself to that. 23 then go back and explain, so that I frame 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 1 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 sense at that point, did you think to yourself, 6 When you were reading about women who 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 7 understand, not a single one of those 44 women 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 10 it or no? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I 12 they never met me, they never saw me, 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's better to | | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's better to | | 24 TODD BLANCHE: Does when you learned 24 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding 1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 6 When you were reading about women who 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 10 it or no? 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I 11 because go back. 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 12 they never interacted with me. So to go back to 13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm 14 embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe 15 it. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | not to have sex, because I have a condition that | | answer this question with corroborating evidence and | | 25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding Page 119 Page 119 Page 1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 Sense at that point? 5 6 When you were reading about women who 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to 0 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 7 understand, not a single one of those 44 women 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 mentioned me in a single report. And it's not 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 They didn't mention me in their report 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I 11 because they never met me, they never saw me, 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 12 they never interacted with me. So to go back to | | doesn't lend itself to that. | | | | Page 119 Page 1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and 1 of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding 2 there's all kinds of press around his purported 2 that in 2000 and, let's say 2008, they had 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 Sense at that point? 6 When you were reading about women who 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 it or no? 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 12 13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm 13 14 embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe 14 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | • | | | | 1'09 time period and he's arrested and charged and2there's all kinds of press around his purported3contact, at that point at that point, did you4accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make5sense at that point?6When you were reading about women who7claimed that they had been abused, even underage8and at that point, did you think to yourself,9well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about10it or no?11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I12didn't that's I only read what was in the13newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm14embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe15it. | 25 | so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: your understanding | | | | Page 119 | | Page 12 | | 3 contact, at that point at that point, did you 3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that number. 4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make 5 sense at that point? 6 When you were reading about women who 5 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 6 When you were reading about women who 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to 7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage 7 understand, not a single one of those 44 women 8 and at that point, did you think to yourself, 9 mentioned me in a single report. And it's not 9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about 10 They didn't mention me in their report 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I 11 because they never met me, they never saw me, 12 didn't that's I only read what was in the 12 they never interacted with me. So to go back to 13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm 14 embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | 1 | '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and | 1 | of what I'm saying. Of the my understanding is | | | | there's all kinds of press around his purported | 2 | that in 2000 and, let's say 2008, they had | | | | | | | | 6When you were reading about women who
claimed that they had been abused, even underage
and at that point, did you think to yourself,
96GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to
understand, not a single one of those 44 women
mentioned me in a single report. And it's not
99well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about
it or no?01010111010GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I
didn't that's I only read what was in the
newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm
1410111211because they never met me, they never saw me,
they never interacted with me. So to go back to
question, it's not that I thought one way or anoth
it's that I didn't see them.15it.15TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | | | | | 1 | | | | | | | | | | | 1 | | | - | | 10it or no?10They didn't mention me in their report11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I11because they never met me, they never saw me,12didn't that's I only read what was in the11because they never interacted with me. So to go back to13newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm12they never interacted with me. So to go back to14embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe14it's that I didn't see them.15it.15TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | ÷ . | | 11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I11because they never met me, they never saw me,12didn't that's I only read what was in the12they never interacted with me. So to go back to13newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm13question, it's not that I thought one way or anoth14embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe14it's that I didn't see them.15it.15TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | | | 12didn't that's I only read what was in the12they never interacted with me. So to go back to13newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm13question, it's not that I thought one way or anoth14embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe14it's that I didn't see them.15it.15TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | | | 13newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm13question, it's not that I thought one way or anoth14embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe14it's that I didn't see them.15it.15TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | | | 14embarrassed to say it, I didn't I didn't believe14it's that I didn't see them.15it.15TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | | | 15 it. 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay. | | | | | | | | • | | | | 16 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Right. I mean, you 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that | | | | | | | | , | | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, no, that's helpful. | | 18 time. 18 So | | | | | | | | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not and but | | | | | | when I say not one, not single one of those reports | | | | | | talked about me. And I just want to clarify exactly, | | | | | | because I'm obviously aware that one of those girls | | 23 duped and he didn't know that they were whatever 23 is was one of the witnesses in my trial, | | | | | | 24 that was in the papers at that time, whether they 24 specifically DOJ REDACTION | | | | specifically DOJ REDACTION | | | | | | To use her own testimony so that you don't | ![](_page_30_Picture_1.jpeg) 31 (Pages 118 to 121) | | Page 122 | | Page 124 | |----|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----|------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | have to | 1 | DAVID MARKUS: stop there and let him | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 2 | ask the next question. | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: hear my point of | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. | | 4 | view. It's better if it comes from her own words and | 4 | | | | | - | TODD BLANCHE: You're good. | | 5 | that way there's no second-guessing whether what | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 6 | I'm saying. | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: So it's so just and | | 7 | herself said that | 7 | look, I want to I want to try to I think | | 8 | recruited her, brought her and | 8 | probably tomorrow we will I want to talk more | | 9 | trained her. Those are DOJ REDACTION own words. | 9 | about kind of the evidence against you and how to | | 10 | Where was I going with this? | 10 | address that. So | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: That you were that you | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Sorry. | | 12 | didn't know. I mean, I assume you were saying that | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: No, don't apologize. | | 13 | you weren't | 13 | That's so that's helpful but | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: yeah, sorry, sorry, | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 15 | sorry, sorry. | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: I don't want you to be | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. That's okay | 16 | burdened. I want you to just tell the truth the best | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm trying to remember | 17 | you can, so I don't want you to be burdened by what | | 18 | where I was. | 18 | people said at trial or what you know the press says | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: that's all right. It's | 19 | about you, so | | 20 | okay. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I just thought it was | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really do have some | 21 | illustrative when you asked the question | | 22 | slow cognition issues. | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: And it was. It was. | | 23 | The | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: because it | | 24 | | 24 | | | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: So she says she
testifies that it was DOUBLOACTION that recruited her | | doesn't I did not I absolutely have no memory | | 25 | | 25 | at any now I'm leaving DOJ REDACTION separate | | | Page 123 | | Page 125 | | 1 | and trained her and not you. | 1 | to this obviously | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So wait. So then in | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | | 3 | her first FBI meeting, she reports seeing a woman | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: so that's a | | 4 | with short dark hair at the house, which then is used | 4 | separate story. I'm not going to pretend well, | | 5 | as evidence that that person was myself. | 5 | we'll come to her. | | 6 | But the maid, lady that who helped keep | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: We'll get to her. Go | | 7 | the house, John Alessi's wife, and with an | 7 | ahead. | | 8 | accent, I believe she said. | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, she but in the | | 9 | John Alessi's wife had short, dark hair | 9 | terms of the scheme or whatever, however you want to | | 10 | and an accent. I'm sorry, but I find and you can | 10 | determine what you're calling that, I have no no | | 11 | ask yourselves this, I mean, I've obviously modified | 11 | memory, no active anything of having seen anybody | | 12 | my accent. I've been in America a long time, but I'm | 12 | that resembles a young a child, let's call it what | | 13 | British. I've been brought up with a very strong | 13 | it is, at that house giving him a massage at all. | | 14 | British accent. | 14 | It's not even like I did this. It's an at | | 15 | And I don't believe there's an American on | 15 | all. And 44 people didn't see me or talk about me | | 16 | planet Earth that doesn't recognize this to be | 16 | either, including | | 17 | British or Australian, maybe, if you really don't | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Did and when you say | | 18 | know. But it's not some random accent. | 18 | "that house," I | | 19 | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , sorry. | | | Now the Hispanic, maybe. Okay. That was | 20 | Palm Beach. | | 20 | John's wife that she saw, not me. And I'd like to | | | | 21 | point out further how you potentially her own | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, no, I understand what | | 22 | through her own words. She identify | 22 | you mean but, and I does the same memory or lack | | 23 | DAVID MARKUS: Why don't we why don't | 23 | thereof, apply to on planes, at in New Mexico, in | | 24 | we | 24 | New York, in | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, with some other | ![](_page_31_Picture_1.jpeg) 32 (Pages 122 to 125) | 1 | Page 126 | | Page 128 | |----------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | - | important caveats. Well, on that but Julian | 1 | that. I just don't think he had the wherewithal and | | 2 | Jane, in my trial, was clearly underage, clearly a | 2 | I think that whole aspect of that is can I use a | | 3 | child. And I only saw her in Palm Beach and I only | 3 | bad word? | | 4 | saw her with her mother. | 4 | DAVID MARKUS: Yes. | | 5 | The other person who's clearly also not an | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Yes. | | 6 | adult or even close, DOJ REDACTION, I believe, I | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bullshit. | | 7 | remember her now. That would be the only two or | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And what do you | | 8 | three, whatever that is. | 8 | you think it's bullshit, meaning? What do you mean? | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: So did you ever know | 9 | DAVID MARKUS: Would you have known if he | | 10 | Mr. Epstein to communicate with FBI agents, either | 10 | was would he have been bragging to you? Would he | | 11 | like intelligence FBI agents, like as a source or | 11 | have been saying these things. | | 12 | just generally with FBI agents? | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was because | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 13 | I I think, well, sorry. I think that I think | | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you think if he had done | 14 | one of the reasons why he liked me was because of my, | | 15 | that, you would've known, like he would've told you | 15 | you know, my family connections and why he liked | | 16 | something like that? Like if I said to you, | 16 | other people was because they were cool or whatever. | | 17 | Mr. Epstein was a source for the FBI, would you say, | 17 | And I think that, certainly, early in when | | 18 | that's crazy, no, he wasn't or maybe he was, I | 18 | I met him, he would've tried to impress me or tried | | 19 | would he wouldn't have told me that anyway. | 19 | to show off, if you will. Like he was that guy, you | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have two answers for | 20 | know, and he wasn't that guy. And so and I think | | 21 | that. I think if he was for real, I think he | 21 | that he would've tried to bullshit me and he didn't, | | 22 | would've bragged about it to me as a show off, | 22 | so I think it's | | 23 | because he could be a show off. And if he wasn't, he | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Did | | 24 | might have dropped it like he was cool. And I don't | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he may have | | 25 | think I don't remember him doing either. | 25 | tried to bullshit me, but no, I couldn't. | | | Page 127 | | Page 129 | | 1 | Now, with, again, the caveat that in | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Right. | | 2 | his before I met him finding money, I think he may | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. | | 3 | have suggested that there was some people who helped | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So I want to just shift for | | 4
5 | him, but that's the only context that I recall that | 4 | a few minutes to talk about post-2000. 2000 to kind | | 6 | in.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you mean by that? | 6 | of when your relationship changed over the years with
him. | | 7 | When you said "finding money," what do you mean? | 7 | Did there come a time when he. | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, his business | Ŕ | Mr. Epstein, did meet members of the Family? | | 9 | where he remember I told you | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: When was that? | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think in that | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I need to go back, | | | context, he made he showed me a photograph that he | 12 | because I think I may have misspoke | | 11
12 | | | , i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i | | 11
12
13 | 1 01 | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 12 | had with some African warlords or something that he | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak | | 12
13 | 1 01 | | · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · | | 12
13
14
15
16 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak | | 12
13
14
15
16
17 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind | 14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I | 14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten. | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I
don't even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I | 14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten.
TODD BLANCHE: Of course. Yeah. | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I
don't even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I
suppose would be the word. | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten.
TODD BLANCHE: Of course. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Before I met Epstein, | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I
don't even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I
suppose would be the word.
TODD BLANCHE: And what about any other | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten.
TODD BLANCHE: Of course. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Before I met Epstein,
he lived in London for a period of time, I don't know | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I
don't even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I
suppose would be the word.
TODD BLANCHE: And what about any other
intelligence agency, like the CIA or Defense | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten.
TODD BLANCHE: Of course. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Before I met Epstein,
he lived in London for a period of time, I don't know
for how long. And he met and knew some truly fancy | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I
don't even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I
suppose would be the word.
TODD BLANCHE: And what about any other
intelligence agency, like the CIA or Defense
Intelligence or any other law enforcement agency? | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten.
TODD BLANCHE: Of course. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Before I met Epstein,
he lived in London for a period of time, I don't know
for how long. And he met and knew some truly fancy
people, like people high society people, that | | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | had with some African warlords or something that he
told me. And, you know, I get I don't remember if
I that's what I interpreted the like that kind
of thing or whether it was something like that.
That's the only actual active memory I
have of something nefarious not nefarious. I
don't even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I
suppose would be the word.
TODD BLANCHE: And what about any other
intelligence agency, like the CIA or Defense | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't misspeak
but I
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, go ahead.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: it's something that
I have forgotten.
TODD BLANCHE: Of course. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Before I met Epstein,
he lived in London for a period of time, I don't know
for how long. And he met and knew some truly fancy | ![](_page_32_Picture_1.jpeg) 33 (Pages 126 to 129) | 1 who's a famous journalist, actually is a very well 1 TODD BLANCHE | | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------| | | e: , okay. That was | | 2 known journalist. 2 (Inaudible). | | | | WELL: and I would | | 4 with the Barings, Barings Bank and he had like, sort 4 sometime | | | 5 of 5 TODD BLANCHE | : Understood. | | 6 TODD BLANCHE: That was, you're talking 6 GHISLAINE MAX | WELL: no, it's when we | | 7 about 7 were | | | 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Before he met me. 8 TODD BLANCHE | E: Okay. | | | WELL: I'm not going to | | 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: '80s. 10 say together, but when h | how about this? When I was | | 11 TODD BLANCHE: '80s. Okay. 11 his employee, that's a bit b | | | ÷ | 2: Okay. So now moving back | | | me a time when Mr. Epstein | | 14 when she became Miss Sweden. 14 met Prince Andrew? | | | 15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So earlier when you 15 GHISLAINE MAX | | | | E: And others in the | | | ce Andrew as, far as you | | 18 TODD BLANCHE: you think he may have 18 know? | | | | WELL: Well, so as as much | | 20 British high society. 20 as I can piece it together, a | | | 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He met I don't know 21 let's just state, I did not int | | | 22 about the Family, but certainly high society. 22 Prince Andrew. I did not | | | | . That is a flat untruth. | | 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And the reason why I 24 I'll start with that. | | | 25 know this is because, sometime we can this is a 25 So now I'm going to | to tell you how he did | | Page 131 | Page 133 | | 1 documentable thing. Docu whatever. There's a 1 actually meet him. So I | | | 2 photograph that can give you the date, because I 2 photograph, I can date that | | | 3 don't remember what the date is of this, so there's 3 Princess Diana at that even | | | 4 something that will peg whatever this date is. I 4 that, I'll be able to tell you | | | 5 don't remember when that is. 5 that event, because I have | n't looked it up and I've | | 6 Epstein went to London without me. He 6 never bothered to check. | | | | who was a client or some | | 8 London without me, which was decently unusual because 8 type of client, or I think sh | | | | nim, for the record. She was | | 10 But anyway, he went without me. And he 10 in do you want to ask m | - | | 11 went to a big event in, I think it was in the 11 TODD BLANCHE 12 anyway, it was a big event. It's on it's on 12 GHISLAINE MAX | | | | WELL: Okay. She was she | | | a house in the Vineyard. I | | 14photographs of it. And he, I don't know if he sat14think it was in the Vineyar15with Diana or he met Diana and he'd already met her.15remember now which one | rd or Nantucket, I can't
e it was. It was one of those. | | 15 with Diana or he met Diana and he'd already met her. 15 remember now which one 16 I don't know, but this, I believe was organized by 16 It was either in Nantucket | | | 16 1 don't know, but this, I believe was organized by 16 11 was either in Nantucket 17 Rosa. 17 invited Epstein to go, and | | | 17 Rosa. 17 Invited Epstein to go, and 18 And so there's I don't know if she was 18 met Prince Andrew. | i beneve that's when he | | | that before that event, | | 19 being set up as a date for min, maybe because site 19 However, i believe 20 I don't want to speak bad of Diana, but I'm not 20 he had gone to the Baham | - | | | ah had called Epstein and had | | 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So that was 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 arranged with 22 ar | - | | | yway, long and short, he met | | | ,,, tong and short, he met | | 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, that was that 24 Andrew up there. | | ![](_page_33_Picture_1.jpeg) 34 (Pages 130 to 133) | 1 | Page 134 | | Page 136 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | - | an exact date, but when, approximately, was that? | 1 | and Andrew together. And I thought that Sarah was | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, we can date it | 2 | trying to put the moves on Jeffrey, if I'm being | | 3 | from that picture, if you find me the picture. | 3 | honest, and I thought the whole thing was annoying | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: But do you know, I | 4 | and I was pissed off. | | 5 | without looking at a photo, in your mind, | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: So what happened with their | | 6 | approximately, when was that. | 6 | relationship? Putting aside the publicity around | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say it was | 7 | Prince Andrew's purported relationship with | | 8 | the 2000 no, probably 2001, 2002. | 8 | DOJ HEDACTION what happened, as far as you know, with | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Early 2000s? | 9 | Prince Andrew and Mr. Epstein's relationship, from | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 10 | the times you just described or you give me | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: And I think it was actually | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So after that, | | 12 | Prince Andrew himself who suggested that he met | 12 | at some point Jeffrey told me Epstein told me that | | 13 | Jeffrey Epstein through you. | 13 | Andrew was coming to New York and I needed to | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that's true. | 14 | organize the whole thing. That's classic by the way, | | 15 | So well | 15 | classic Epstein. | | 16 | LEAH SAFFIAN: It's true that Andrew said | 16 | Of course, if someone I'm like, all | | 17 | that. | 17 | right, fine, whatever. And because he wanted to make | | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, no, I'm sure | 18 | sure that Andrew was taken care of and that he was | | 19 | it's true, because I I'm English and my close | 19 | comfortable, he had whatever he needed, yada, yada, | | 20 | friends are all close friends with Sarah and Andrew. | 20 | yada. | | 21 | And I would not say that I was close friends with | 21 | And I'm like, well, am I going to meet him | | 22 | Andrew before, but certainly we were friendly and | 22 | or are you just going to have me do all the job? And | | 23 | certainly his best friends, some of them, are very | 23 | he said, well, you know, you can come and say hello. | | 24 | close with me. | 24 | Like, wow. Well, that's so nice of you, for real. | | 25 | And I think that my friendship, my me | 25 | Because you have to understand, like, I | | | Page 135 | | Page 137 | | 1 | being present or me is what made Andrew like Jeffrey | 1 | don't know if I told you this before, but I did not | | 2 | more, like, trust him or I think that's the idea. | 2 | have the keys to his I was not allowed to go to | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So you don't dispute that | 3 | his house, unless I was summoned or told. I was not | | 4 | you're that you kind of had a role in them getting | 4 | allowed to answer his phones. We can go there, but | | 5 | together. You're just saying you didn't say, Prince, | 5 | anyway. So this you can tell there's a bit of a | | | here's Jeffrey. | 6 | anyway. So uns - you can ten there's a bit of a | | 6 | | 6 | sore point, perhaps. | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would never have | 7 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the | | 7
8 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me | 7 8 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And | | 7
8
9 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being | 7
8
9 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being | | 7
8
9
10 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I | 7
8
9
10 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in | | 7
8
9
10
11 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect | 7
8
9
10
11 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane. | | 7
8
9
10
11
12 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them. | 7
8
9
10
11
12 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like | | 7
9
10
11
12
13 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture. | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one
that pushed that. And they met and hung out, I want | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's
it was so nice and we just became really, really good | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one
that pushed that. And they met and hung out, I want
to say two or three times that had nothing to do with | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's
it was so nice and we just became really, really good
friends, much more so than when we were in London, if | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one
that pushed that. And they met and hung out, I want
to say two or three times that had nothing to do with
me. I wasn't communicating with Andrew, I wasn't in | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's
it was so nice and we just became really, really good
friends, much more so than when we were in London, if
I'm honest. | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one
that pushed that. And they met and hung out, I want
to say two or three times that had nothing to do with
me. I wasn't communicating with Andrew, I wasn't in
touch with him. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's
it was so nice and we just became really, really good
friends, much more so than when we were in London, if
I'm honest.
TODD BLANCHE: And then with respect to | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one
that pushed that. And they met and hung out, I want
to say two or three times that had nothing to do with
me. I wasn't communicating with Andrew, I wasn't in
touch with him.
And I know this because I was annoyed and | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's
it was so nice and we just became really, really good
friends, much more so than when we were in London, if
I'm honest.
TODD BLANCHE: And then with respect to
DOURHEACTED | | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | introduced them. It would never have occurred to me
to introduce them. I couldn't imagine them being
friends. Two chalk and cheeses would never I
mean, for real, there's nothing there to connect
them.
So he met Prince Andrew and then he had a
really good relationship. I don't like that word.
It sounds clunky. They had a friend
DAVID MARKUS: Acquaintanceship.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. And
through Sarah, actually. I think Sarah is the one
that pushed that. And they met and hung out, I want
to say two or three times that had nothing to do with
me. I wasn't communicating with Andrew, I wasn't in
touch with him. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | sore point, perhaps.
Anyway, so Andrew came, and of course the
minute we got together I was like, yay. Hi. And
then it was so nice, because the difference of being
in England with Prince Andrew versus being in
New York without all the bullshit was insane.
And our friendship just like lit up like
this, because first of all, he knew that I'm safe. I
mean safe as in I'm not, yeah, you know, Nigel
Dempster or taking a picture.
I mean, not in a million years would I do
something so gross. And we honestly got on like a
house on fire. I really liked him a lot and he's
it was so nice and we just became really, really good
friends, much more so than when we were in London, if
I'm honest.
TODD BLANCHE: And then with respect to | ![](_page_34_Picture_1.jpeg) 35 (Pages 134 to 137) | | Page 138 | | Page 140 | |----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | that again? Relationship is a big word. Like I | 1 | nightclub that night. , we went to dinner, right? | | 2 | said, I don't like the word. Let's just start there. | 2 | We went to dinner and then to Tramp. Okay. So the | | 3 | Okay. | 3 | first thing about that weekend, that specific | | 4 | So I have read I just want to like | 4 | weekend, was it's my mum's 80th birthday and I was in | | 5 | piece together. | 5 | the country. | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, but don't say | 6 | And I have some corroborating evidence for | | 7 | before you say what you read, because that's one of | 7 | that and a lot of testimonial that you can check. So | | 8 | the problems is that we're all kind of | 8 | that takes care of the reason why I one of the | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. What, I | 9 | reasons why her story doesn't hold water. | | 10 | know | 10 | The second reason why so by the way, | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: we're all formed by like | 11 | when I say that, my mum turned 80th, that actual | | 12 | all the publicity and information around what | 12 | weekend was, her birthday is on March the 11th. And | | 13 | everybody else has said, but like, what do you | 13 | the reason why I went to London, and I presume, but | | 14 | DAVID MARKUS: Know. | 14 | I this I don't remember, is why when we were so | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: what do you think or | 15 | the whole trip started because of Alberto Pinto, who | | 16 | what did you see? What did you hear? | 16 | is the decorator for the island and for and for | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's an even bigger | 17 | New York as well. | | 18 | word than bullshit? | 18 | And he had wanted Epstein to go to see a | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Why? Well, go ahead | 19 | house in Marrakesh, if I remember rightly, and went | | 20 | just but finish that thought. Why do you think | 20 | via the Alhambra, it was also for New Mexico. So | | 21 | that? | 21 | there's architectural pieces that paint. And that | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm going to tell you | 22 | was the basis of that trip. | | 23 | right now. I'm so happy to tell you. I'm like | 23 | And I suspect now, that that trip was | | 24 | excited. I'm beyond excited. | 24 | planned all around the fact that I had to be in | | 25 | Okay. So there's been a mixture of what | 25 | wanted to be in was going to be in London no | | | Page 139 | | Page 141 | | 1 | I've actually seen and know from the evidence and | 1 | matter what for my mum's 80th birthday at my | | 2 | versus what I've put together. Impossible for me at | 2 | brother's house in the country, which is | | 3 | this point to separate everything, but I'll tell you | 3 | approximately an hour outside of London, an hour and | | 4 | what I know versus what I saw and what I physically | 4 | a half | | 5 | have in here, but it's helpful for you to know. | 5 | LEAH SAFFIAN: An hour and a half. | | 6 | So the allegation, I have to go with the | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: an hour and a half | | 7 | allegation. The allegation was that at my house in | 7 | outside of London, in my brother's home. And we all | | 8 | London, in March, whatever that was, 2001 I believe, | 8 | congregated on the Saturday for her birthday | | 9 | we went to London, especially so that could | 9 | celebration on the Sunday, and then we left. So | | 10 | have a or could have a relationship with | 10 | that's that. | | 11 | Prince Andrew and she was paid a vast amount of money | 11 | The second reason why probably maybe | | 12 | for that purpose. | 12 | even the more important reason than my mum's | | 13 | Okay. And that she then got in the in | 13 | birthday, that I think it's absolute rubbish, is that | | 14
15 | my bathroom in my house in London and had sex, sexual | 14 | Prince Andrew. The idea of him doing anything of | | 15 | relations with him and then went into my guest room | 15
16 | that nature in my house, that's the size of this | | 17 | and had full blown sex and then left my house, or he left, and she felt used and disgusting. | 17 | room, is so mind-blowingly not conceivable to me, as
the man or what I just can't I can't even | | 18 | And a photograph was taken of them just | 18 | I no. | | 19 | before all these events took place in my study. That | 19 | DAVID MARKUS: Is there any way that it | | 20 | is what is the story. | 20 | could have happened? | | 21 | , and then after that she met him | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 22 | several other times. But we'll come to that. We'll | 22 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. | | 23 | come this is where it will allegedly started. | 23 | LEAH SAFFIAN: Describe the physical plan. | | 24 | LEAH SAFFIAN: And they went to Tramp. | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , the physical so | | | | | | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , right. We went to | 25 | the my house was tiny. I think it's 900 square | ![](_page_35_Picture_1.jpeg) 36 (Pages 138 to 141) | 1 feet in total. Well, maybe that; is that right? 1 Vice-had a tap. So if you were in - if you were in 2 Maybe nine 1 Vice-had a tap. So if you were in - if you were in 3 LEAH SAFFIAN: Yes. 1 Vice-had a tap. So if you were in - if you were in 4 GHISLANE MAXWELL: It is on three floors, 1 Vice-had a tap. So if you were in - if you were in 6 jewel. It used to be a stable for a horse. It was TODD BLANCHE: So you think it's kind of 6 jewel. It used to be a stable for a horse. It was He's so - he had a tic oud 10 it is the size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's He's so - he had a tic on. 11 sa was ag orgeous little place, but 1 He's so - he had a tic on. 12 you'd hear it. It just - 1 He's so - he had a tic on. 13 babarboon, I - first of all, the bath is an old 1 He's so - he had a tic on. 14 a babroon, I - first of all, the bath is an old 1 He's so - he had a tic on. 15 Victorian bath. I could - I'm quite - quite small, 1 He's so - he had a tic on. 15 a babroon is for is so small, you can't he's bas He's so - he had stiso on. 16 Page 142 Page 144 | | Page 142 | | Page 144 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 2 Maybe nine the top, right, it might this is the tob. My tap 3 LEAH SAFFIAN: Yes. The bath SaffiAN: Yes. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It is on three floors, ToDD BLANCHE: So you think it's kind of 5 however. So you're talking about a little it's a ToDD BLANCHE: So you think it's kind of 6 is well tused to be a stable for a horse. It was ToDD BLANCHE: So you think it's kind of 7 the task of the stable for a horse. It was a singer on the horse horse about a hitter hor and so horse. It's a "was a gorgeous little place, but ToDD BLANCHE: So you think there's sar, hardrew would - he's so English. 1 say, a little bury or something you don't want to ToDD BLANCHE: So you think there's any 1 say, a little bury or something you don't want to ToDD BLANCHE: So you think there's any 1 it's tight for me. I put my brother in thre to see ToDD BLANCHE: Co 1 firis tight for me. I put my brother in thre to see ToDD BLANCHE: So you think there's sar, any 2 wat would happen. And it lokes like a blivet, which ToDD BLANCHE: Co a- 3 that because you physically, not you or and it hos is the a way it hat way would were, see any shat they hat would'n' work. ToDD BLANCHE: Co a- 2 peopole were doing in the tub, that would' work. 1 feet in total. Well, maybe that; is that right? 1 Vic- had a tap. So if you were in if you were in | 1 | feet in total. Well, maybe that; is that right? | 1 | Vic- had a tap. So if you were in if you were in | | 3 LEAH SAFFIAN: Yes. 3 would be here, It think - no. 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It is on three floors, 5 5 however. So you're talking about a bite on. 16 6 jewel. It used to be a stable for a horse. It was 16 7 mar's home behind the rich mar's home. It's a jewel. 17 10 it is the size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's 10 11 say, a little burp or something you don't want to 10 12 you'd hear it. Ir just 10 13 where she says that they had relations in 13 14 a bathroom, I first of all, the bath is an old 10 15 Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, 16 16 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 10 17 ba bathroom isef is os somall, you could'n work. 16 18 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 17 17 bok more is to small to even be on the floor. 12 18 bathroom, you saw like a way anu di k. And what was sof it could'n what was of it to try make it look huge, which thend's any you work. | | | 2 | | | 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It is on three floors, is on three floors, is on the stable for a horse. It was 5 however. So you're talking about a little it's a is on the stable for a horse. It was 7 the stables for the big house. It was a little poor mark shome behind the rich mark shome. It's a jewel. 9 It's a was a gorgeous little place, but It's a was a gorgeous little place, but 11 size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's and there's just Andrew would he's so -e had a tie on. 12 you'd hear it. It just DAVID MARKUS: Do you think there's any 14 a bathroom, I first of all, the bath is an old It's tight for me. I put my brother in thre to see 16 ri's tight for me. I put my brother in thre to see It's tight for me. I put my brother in thre to see 10 Not description of whatever the two It's tight for me. I put my brother in there to see 10 So her description of whatever the two 12 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor. 13 The bathroom is to small to coven b on the floor. 14 bathroom is to small to coven b on the floor. 15 ToDD BLANCHE: So you with the floor so it cowall the put was manuffic to what wo dow one se one potentially corroborating | | | | | | 5 however. So you're talking about a little - if's a jewel. It used to be a stable for a horse. It was a little poor something that could have happened. is a super stable for a horse. It was a little poor something that could have happened. 6 if is is a consa a gorgeous little place, but it's a - was a gorgeous little place, but it's is a - was a gorgeous little place, but is a super something you don't want to you'd hear it. If you rmake a noise, let's and there's is a - was a gorgeous little place, but is a sussage in like a very tight skin. 9 13 a bathroom, I - first of all, the bath is an old is a bathroom, I - first of all, the bath is an old is a sussage in like a very tight skin. 10 15 Victorian bath. I could - I'm quite - quite small, is a sussage in like a very tight skin. 10 16 is a sussage in like a very tight skin. 11 17 boatmoom iself is so small, you can't lie flat 20 11 18 because two so mall to even be on the floor. 12 19 boatmoom you saw like a hundred of you, like you do't was tell ob kuey, which meant that 1 put mirrors the whole way around it. And what wass of that about being in there is that if you stood in the babthroom you saw like a hundred of you, like you do't was telling ther truth. 16 babtroom is the was thing yeave suft. The is a nubut being in there is that if you stood in the potor you was telling the truth. 16 babtroom is the a bundred of you, like you would say she was having sex with im a - 1 | | | | | | 6 jewel. It used to be a stable for a horse. It was a little poor 7 the stables for the big house. It was a little poor 8 marks home behind the rich marks home. It's a jewel. 9 It's a - was a gorgeous little place, but 10 it's is the size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's 11 say, a little burp or something you don't want to 12 you'd hear it. It just 14 a bathroom, I - first of all, the bath is an old 15 Victoria bath. I could - I'm quite - quite small, 16 if's tight for me. 1 put my brother in there to see 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 18 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 19 So her description of whatever the two 10 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 10 propole were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 25 And then the kickeer of all kickers, is 26 hathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 25 Page 143 1 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated it to try make it look huge, which mean that 1 put mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fin a dois in the bathroom, was selaring the truth. 26 5 | | | 5 | | | 7 İhe stables for the big house. It's a jewel. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, there's that. 8 mar's home behind the rich man's home. It's a jewel. 7 He's sohe had a tie on. 10 it is the size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's 9 He's sohe had a tie on. 12 you'd hear it. If you make a noise, let's 9 He's sohe had a tie on. 13 where she says that they had relations in 14 if stight for me. I put my brother in there to see 16 14 a bathroom, I - first of all, the bath is an old 14 finished. So on her TODD BLANCHE: Go 15 Victorian bath. I could - I'm quite quite small, 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Go 17 16 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 19 Forburdom is do small, or our's tie fill 17 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 17 TODD BLANCHE: Go a head. 60 a head. 18 a sausage in like a very tight skin. 19 Forburdom is too small to even be on the floor, 10 20 people were doing in the tub, huwould'n twork. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. 11 21 that because the bathroom is too small to even | | | 6 | | | | 7 | * | 7 | | | 9 It's ar- was a gorgeous little place, but 9 10 it is the size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's 10 11 say, a little burp or something you don't want to 10 12 you'd hear it. If just 11 14 a bathroom, I first of all, the bath is an old 12 15 Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, 15 16 vistight for me. I put my brother in there to see 16 16 way con lok way no kow, absolutely not. Wait, I haven't finished. So on her 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 15 TODD BLANCHE: Co 17 bausage in like a very tight skin. 16 18 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 17 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 18 21 thet because the bathroom is to so small to even be on the floor. 22 23 had the the kicker of all kickers, is 11 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 25 And then the kicker of sult if you stood in the 5 | 8 | ÷ , | 8 | | | 10 it is the size of a nut. If you make a noise, let's 10 DAVID MARKUS: Do you think there's any 11 say, a little burp or something you don't want to you'd hear it. It just 11 13 Where she says that they had relations in 11 12 14 a bathroom, I first of all, the bath is an old 14 16 15 Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, 15 TODD BLANCHE: Go 16 if's tight for me. I put my brother in there to see if mished. So on her TODD BLANCHE: Go a head. 16 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 10 DAVID MARKUS: No, go ahead. Go ahead. 17 what would happen. And it looks like a bitwer, whith 17 DDVID MARKUS: So you think there's any 18 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 10 DAVID MARKUS: No, go ahead. Go ahead. 19 So her description of whatever the two 10 TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. GithisLAINE MAXWELL: Sory. Can I finish? 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat 11 Some she gave the photograph to the fish 22 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 22 Finish. Please, go ahead. GithisLAINE MAXWELL: | 9 | | 9 | | | 11 say, a little burp or something you don't want to 11 way it could have happend or no? 12 you'd hear it. It just 11 way it could have happend or no? 13 Where she says that they had relations in 13 way it could have happend or no? 14 a bathroom, 1 - first of all, the bath is an old 13 way - no how, absolutely not. Wait, I haven't 16 i's tight for me. I put my brother in there to see 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Go 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Go 18 sausage in like a very tight skin. 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: MaxWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 19 So her description of whatever the two 20 Finish. Please, go ahead. 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 22 because you physically, physically can't. This 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. When all this 24 bathroom is the back any arount it. And what was so fun 4 10 Fage 143 1 16 fit bury make it look huge, which meant that I put 3 So when she gave the photograph to the FBI 1 | 10 | | 10 | DAVID MARKUS: Do you think there's any | | 12 you'd hear it. I just 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely on no 13 Where she says that they had relations in 13 way no how, absolutely not. Wait, I haven't 14 a bathroom, I first of all, the bath is an old 14 finished. So on her 15 Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, 15 TODD BLANCHE: Go 15 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry. 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 So her description of whatever the two 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 11 The bathroom istelf is so small, you can't lie flat 21 on the floor. So i couldn't happen on the floor, 20 Finish. Please, go ahead. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 23 because you physically, physically can't. This 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: May. When all this 24 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 11 I I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is Page 143 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 26 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, VALEL: Yeah, VALE. 11 11 | 11 | | 11 | | | 13 Where she says that they had relations in 13 way - no how, absolutely not. Wait, I haven't 14 a bathroom, I first of all, the bath is an old 14 15 Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, 14 16 if's tight for me. I put my brother in there to see 16 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 17 DAVID MARKUS: No, go ahead. Go ahead. 17 So her description of whatever the two 19 TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. Go, go, go. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 20 Finish. Please, go ahead. 6 21 the bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 24 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 11 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 25 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put 13 So when she gave the photograph to the FBI 3 distorery flog ong, stretching very right, g. And the 14< | 12 | | 12 | , ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, | | 14 a bathroom, 1 first of all, the bath is an old 14 finished. So on her - 15 Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, 15 TODD BLANCHE: Go 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 15 TODD BLANCHE: Go a- 18 is a sausge in like a very tight skin. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: More worg. 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 DAVID MARKUS: No, go ahead. Go ago, go. 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 20 Finish. Please, go ahead. 21 The bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sory. Can I finish? 22 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sory. Can I finish? 23 because you physically, physically can't. This Page 143 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 1 3 to try make it look huge, which meant that I put 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 1 4 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 1 4 babout being in there whole wa | 13 | | 13 | way no how, absolutely not. Wait, I haven't | | 16 it's tight for me. I put my brother in there to see 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 17 18 is as asuage in like a very tight skin. 18 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 10 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't life flat 16 22 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor, 20 23 because you physically can't. This 23 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor, 24 25 roDD BLANCHE: Okay. CANJE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 26 not sto small to even be on the floor, 24 26 not sto small to even be on the floor, 24 26 not sto small to even be on the floor, 24 27 not be whole way around it. And what was so fun not sto small to even be way so und it. And what was so fun 3 about being in there is that if you stood in the 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 28 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 0 DEGO PESTANA: Just to be | 14 | | 14 | finished. So on her | | 17 what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which 17 DAVID MARKUS: No, go ahead. Go ahead. 18 is a suasage in like a very tight skin. 18 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 18 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat 20 22 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor, 21 23 because you physically and. This 23 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 25 Fage 143 Page 143 24 that because the bathroom wass os small, I decorated 1 25 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 26 ti to try make it look huge, which meant that I put mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 3 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 1 16 bathroom you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 1 17 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 1 | 15 | Victorian bath. I could I'm quite quite small, | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Go | | 18 is a sausage in like a very tight skin. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry. 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahe | 16 | it's tight for me. I put my brother in there to see | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , sorry. | | 19 So her description of whatever the two 19 TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. Go, go, go. 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 20 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat 20 22 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor. 22 23 because you physically, physically can't. This 23 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 23 26 Page 143 Page 143 27 Page 143 Page 143 28 about being in there is that if you stood in the 19 3 about being in there is that if you stood in the 11 3 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you dooi 14 4 BANCID MARKUS: A fun house. 14 14 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 15 16 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 19 01EGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you worels 12 01 Hist, alka it was a picture talking about the 13 She could say she was having | 17 | what would happen. And it looks like a blivet, which | 17 | DAVID MARKUS: No, go ahead. Go ahead. | | 20 people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. 20 Finish. Please, go ahead. 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat 21 20 on the floor. 22 21 on the floor. 22 22 because you physically, physically can't. This 23 23 because you physically, and the the kicker of all kickers, is 24 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 25 26 Page 143 Page 143 27 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 24 3 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 25 3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 4 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 26 6 if you were in 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 7 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 7 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 7 12 let's say that fusto | 18 | is a sausage in like a very tight skin. | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry. | | 21 The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? 22 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 23 because you physically can't. This 23 24 abathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 25 26 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 25 27 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 28 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 4 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 1 1 if you were in 7 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 7 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 9 10 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 11 11 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 12 12 lef's say that fu' at hat had taken place | 19 | So her description of whatever the two | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. Go, go, go. | | 22 on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor, 22 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 23 because you physically, physically can't. This 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. When all this 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 addent the kicker of all kickers, is 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. When all this 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is Page 143 Page 145 1 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 2 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 3 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 So when she gave the photograph to the FBI 6 if you were in DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 1 DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 9 yourself going, stretching everything. And the 1 10 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 11 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 11 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is | 20 | people were doing in the tub, that wouldn't work. | 20 | Finish. Please, go ahead. | | 23 because you physically, physically can't. This 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. When all this 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. When all this 26 And then the kicker of all kickers, is Page 143 Page 143 21 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 23 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put 3 about being in there is that if you stood in the 3 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do if you were in DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 5 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 5 DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 9 yourself going, stretching everything. And the 10 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 14 5,000 generations of the Family, because that's 14 6dHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 15 how far back you could see yourself. There is no way 14 6dHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be 16 in God's family act that dtaken place, that 14 16don't know thit'is n1 16 | | The bathroom itself is so small, you can't lie flat | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. Can I finish? | | 24 bathroom is too small to even be on the floor. 24 nonsense took place, where this whole story with the picture and the this and the that and this bullshit, 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 25 26 Page 143 Page 143 1 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 I believe that this and the that and this bullshit, 2 mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 3 Page 143 3 mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 3 4 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 6 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 6 6 6 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 10 of there. Who wants to look at it? 0 0 11 image. If you said you were - let's say you were, 10 0 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 14 5,000 generations of th | | on the floor. So it couldn't happen on the floor, | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 25 And then the kicker of all kickers, is 25 picture and the this and the that and this bullshit, Page 143 Page 143 1 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 2 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 3 mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 2 I can point you to some potentially corroborating 4 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 So when she gave the photograph to the FBI 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 6 Famel All in Australia 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 7 DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 11 image. If you said you were let's say that 10 Of it here. Who wants to look at it? 12 bloding for and you're in the background? 11 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 13 She could say she was having sex with 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the | | | | | | Page 143 Page 145 1 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 2 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put 3 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 3 mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun about being in there is that if you soudo in the 5 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 6 I an point you to some potentially corroborating 6 if you were in 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 5 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 6 6 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 7 DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 7 0 12 let's say that mage. If you said you were let's say you were, 11 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 14 5,000 generations of the fermily, because that's 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be 15 how far back you could see yourself. There is no way 14 Gon't know where, which discovery I saw it in now. 16 mir God's earth if that had taken place, that | | | | | | 1 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 1 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 3 mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun 1 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and 4 about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 So when she gave the photograph to the FBI 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 6 I Australia 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 OHSCO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 11 in going, stretching everything. And the 10 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 11 bolding framewas to look at it? 11 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 12 let's say that for was that ing sex with 12 13 Bolding framewas to look at it? 13 She could say she was having sex with 14 I believe that this would were which discovery I saw it in now. 14 food's food's methack you could see yourself. There is no way 16 in | 25 | And then the kicker of all kickers, is | 25 | picture and the this and the that and this bullshit, | | 2 it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put I can point you to some potentially corroborating 3 mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun about being in there is that if you stood in the 5 bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 5 6 if you were in 6 7 DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. 7 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 8 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 7 10 ingou said you were let's say you were, 11 11 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 11 12 let's say that for was telling the truth. 12 13 She could say she was having sex with 13 14 5,000 generations of the for braing that you would miss, because that's 14 15 how far back you could miss it. 12 16 in God's for earth if that had taken place, that 16 16 whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice 14 18 - you couldn't miss it. 18 19 If you were standing there, you'd see the 19 16 | | | | | | 3mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
73evidence of this.5bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
76So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where7DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
969Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.1012let's say that was telling the truth.1213She could say she was having sex with
1413145,000 generations of the was learning there, you'd see the
this is something that you would miss, because it's
181415how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
161416in God's earth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
181419If you were standing there, you'd see the
whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice
standing behind you. It's like, no.1822TODD BLANCHE: Did you
LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just
also explain where the tap was in the battutb.2124also explain where the tap was in the battutb.22 | | Page 143 | | Page 145 | | 4about being in there is that if you stood in the55bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do66if you were in67DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.68GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in79Wonderland or one of those things that you would see910yourself going, stretching everything. And the1011image. If you said you were let's say you were,1112let's say that for the form of the set shings that you would see1213She could say she was having sex with13145,000 generations of the form family, because that's1415how far back you could see yourself. There is no way1516in God's form earth if that had taken place, that1617this is something that you would miss, because it's1718 you couldn't miss it.1819If you were standing there, you'd see the1920whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice2021standing behind you. It's like, no.2022TODD BLANCHE: Did you2223LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just2324also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24 | 1 | | 1 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and | | 5bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do5in Australia6if you were in6DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the7DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.78GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in99Wonderland or one of those things that you would see910yourself going, stretching everything. And the1011image. If you said you were let's say you were,1112let's say that was telling the truth.1213She could say she was having sex with13145,000 generations of the Family, because that's1415how far back you could see yourself. There is no way1516in God's Family that you would miss, because it's1717this is something that you would miss, because it's1718 you couldn't miss it.1819If you were standing there, you'd see the1920whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice1121tanding behind you. It's like, no.2122TODD BLANCHE: Did you2223LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just2324also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24 | 2 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put | 2 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating | | 6if you were in6DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the7DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.7photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the8GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in8famous one where9Wonderland or one of those things that you would see9GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image10yourself going, stretching everything. And the10of it here. Who wants to look at it?11image. If you said you were let's say you were,11DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is12let's say that was telling the truth.12DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is13She could say she was having sex with13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be145,000 generations of the family, because that's13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be15how far back you could see yourself. There is no way15dolding family, because it's16in God's family, because it's17But this she wrote, she, family17this is something that you would miss, because it's17But this she wrote, she, family18 you couldn't miss it.17But this she wrote, she, family19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice20GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her24also explain where th | 2
3 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun | 2
3 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this. | | 7DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.7photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the8GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in9Wonderland or one of those things that you would see910yourself going, stretching everything. And the109GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image11image. If you said you were let's say you were,111112let's say that the wast elling the truth.121213She could say she was having sex with13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be145,000 generations of the framily, because that's14GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be15how far back you could see yourself. There is no way15discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I16in God's frame earth if that had taken place, that16don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.17this is something that you would miss, because it's18wrote in the back that it was a picture that was18 you couldn't miss it.18wrote in the back that it was a picture that was19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice20don't remember.21LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just24also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the | 2
3
4 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI | | 8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in 9 famous one where 9 Wonderland or one of those things that you would see 9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image 10 yourself going, stretching everything. And the 10 0 of it here. Who wants to look at it? 11 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 11 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 12 let's say that was telling the truth. 12 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 13 She could say she was having sex with 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be 14 5,000 generations of the family, because that's 14 famous one where 15 how far back you could see yourself. There is no way 15 don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now. 16 in God's fame arth if that had taken place, that 16 don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now. 17 this is something that you would miss, because it's 17 But this she wrote, she, family. 18 you couldn't miss it. 18 wrote in the back that it was a picture that was 19 If you were standing there, you'd see the 19 taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I 2
3
4
5 that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do 2
3
4
5 I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia | 2
3
4
5 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do | 2
3
4
5 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia | | 9Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.9GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?11image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.10DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding in going and you're in the background?13She could say she was having sex with13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.145,000 generations of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the section of the sectio | 2
3
4
5
6 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in | 2
3
4
5
6 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the | | 10 yourself going, stretching everything. And the 11 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 12 let's say that was telling the truth. 13 She could say she was having sex with 14 5,000 generations of the secure yourself. There is no way 15 how far back you could see yourself. There is no way 16 in God's secure arth if that had taken place, that 17 this is something that you would miss, because it's 18 you couldn't miss it. 19 If you were standing there, you'd see the 20 whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice 21 standing behind you. It's like, no. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Did you 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just 24 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the | | 11 image. If you said you were let's say you were, 11 DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is 12 let's say that was telling the truth. 12 holding management 13 She could say she was having sex with 12 14 5,000 generations of the mainly, because that's 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be 15 how far back you could see yourself. There is no way 16 discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I 16 mod's mainly, because it's 17 But this she wrote, she, mainly 17 this is something that you would miss, because it's 17 18 you couldn't miss it. 18 19 If you were standing there, you'd see the 19 20 whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice 19 21 standing behind you. It's like, no. 21 22 TODD BLANCHE: Did you 22 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just 23 24 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 24 | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where | | 12let's say that was telling the truth.12holding and you're in the background?13She could say she was having sex with13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be145,000 generations of the family, because that's13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be15how far back you could see yourself. There is no way16in God's family, because that1716in God's family, because it's16don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.17this is something that you would miss, because it's17But this she wrote, she, family.18 you couldn't miss it.18wrote in the back that it was a picture that was19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice21TODD BLANCHE: Did you23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her24also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image | | 13She could say she was having sex with13GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be145,000 generations of the family, because that's14clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the15how far back you could see yourself. There is no way15discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I16in God's family, because it's16don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.17this is something that you would miss, because it's17But this she wrote, she, family.18 you couldn't miss it.18wrote in the back that it was a picture that was19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice20on't remember.21TODD BLANCHE: Did you21TODD BLANCHE: Okay.23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her24also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it? | | 145,000 generations of the Family, because that's14clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the15how far back you could see yourself. There is no way15discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I16in God's Family, because it's16don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.17this is something that you would miss, because it's16don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.18 you couldn't miss it.17But this she wrote, she, Hat it was a picture that was19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice20don't remember.21TODD BLANCHE: Did you21TODD BLANCHE: Okay.23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23And also let me just24also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding | | 16in God'searth if that had taken place, that16don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.17this is something that you would miss, because it's16But this she wrote, she,1718 you couldn't miss it.18Wrote in the back that it was a picture that was19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice20don't remember.21standing behind you. It's like, no.21TODD BLANCHE: Did you23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her24also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I | | 19If you were standing there, you'd see the19taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I20whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice20don't remember.21standing behind you. It's like, no.21TODD BLANCHE: Okay.22TODD BLANCHE: Did you22GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her23LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just23handwriting, that she's giving the FBI this picture,24also explain where the tap was in the bathtub.24suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's family earth if that had taken place, that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now. | | 20 whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice 20 don't remember. 21 standing behind you. It's like, no. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Did you 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just 23 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 24 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 24 suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's carth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, | | 21 standing behind you. It's like, no. 21 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 22 TODD BLANCHE: Did you 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just 23 handwriting, that she's giving the FBI this picture, 24 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 24 suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's earth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
you couldn't miss it. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, | | 22 TODD BLANCHE: Did you 22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just 23 handwriting, that she's giving the FBI this picture, 24 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 24 suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's earth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
you couldn't miss it.
If you were standing there, you'd see the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding data and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, data and the set was
taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I | | 23 LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just 23 handwriting, that she's giving the FBI this picture, 24 also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 23 suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's fearth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
you couldn't miss it.
If you were standing there, you'd see the
whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, | | also explain where the tap was in the bathtub. 24 suddenly now it's March. So how do you go from her | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's earth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
you couldn't miss it.
If you were standing there, you'd see the
whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice
standing behind you. It's like, no. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, GHISLAINE was
taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I
don't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's earth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
you couldn't miss it.
If you were standing there, you'd see the
whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice
standing behind you. It's like, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, wrote in the back that it was a picture that was
taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I
don't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | that because the bathroom was so small, I decorated
it to try make it look huge, which meant that I put
mirrors the whole way around it. And what was so fun
about being in there is that if you stood in the
bathroom, you saw like a hundred of you, like you do
if you were in
DAVID MARKUS: A fun house.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, well, Alice in
Wonderland or one of those things that you would see
yourself going, stretching everything. And the
image. If you said you were let's say you were,
let's say that was telling the truth.
She could say she was having sex with
5,000 generations of the Family, because that's
how far back you could see yourself. There is no way
in God's earth if that had taken place, that
this is something that you would miss, because it's
you couldn't miss it.
If you were standing there, you'd see the
whole the FBI, the whole Department of Justice
standing behind you. It's like, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
LEAH SAFFIAN: And also let me just | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | I believe that this whole thing was manufactured, and
I can point you to some potentially corroborating
evidence of this.
So when she gave the photograph to the FBI
in Australia
DIEGO PESTANA: Just to be clear, the
photo, you're talking about, you're talking about the
famous one where
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I have a image
of it here. Who wants to look at it?
DIEGO PESTANA: where Prince Andrew is
holding and you're in the background?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The fake, just to be
clear. So on the back of that, and this is in the
discovery by the way. I don't know if it's in I
don't know where, which discovery I saw it in now.
But this she wrote, she, wrote in the back that it was a picture that was
taken in January of 2000 and on 2000 or 2001, I
don't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So now in her
handwriting, that she's giving the FBI this picture, | ![](_page_36_Picture_1.jpeg) 37 (Pages 142 to 145) | 1
2 | Page 146 | | Page 148 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 2 | only it's the only one that fit with the flight | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not. | | | logs, that when she could be in London and this took | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: So you don't have a | | 3 | place. | 3 | specific recollection of kind of being at an event or | | 4 | The second thing is that , I'm so | 4 | a party or your apartment, or you know, you're flat | | 5 | excited to tell you this. There is a journalist, I | 5 | in London with Prince Andrew and DOJ HEDACTION | | 6 | know you guys are quite well, I don't know. The | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not. | | 7 | fake news is at work here. | 7 | DAVID MARKUS: She doesn't know one way or | | 8 | So there's a journalist called Sharon | 8 | the other. | | 9 | Churcher. There is a lawyer called Brad | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Understand that. | | 10 | These two and there is a Southern District of | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just I want you | | 11 | Florida prosecutor called Villafana. | 11 | to know that | | 12 | I would very much look forward to showing | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: No, I know. | | 13 | you the relationship between these three parties that | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I the reason why | | 14 | created that story. | 14 | I'm not hesitant. I'm not I don't have any memory | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Why? Well, without | 15 | of that, so that that's not the issue. The issue | | 16 | putting aside the relationship, why do you think they | 16 | is, could Andrew have come to the house to see me or | | 17 | created that story? | 17 | see Epstein, and say hi and she had been there? Yes. | | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe that story | 18 | I can't say that that didn't happen. | | 19 | was created for the purposes of well, there are | 19 | But what I can absolutely, categorically | | 20 | multiple. The first one is financial, the second one | 20 | say is that I never, at any time, set Andrew up to | | 21 | is for the purposes of the CVRA case. The third one | 21 | have relations with her or any other human being | | 22 | was for the serialization, both of her book and in | 22 | ever. | | 23 | the papers, for the story to attack the Family. | 23 | And I can categorically state that her | | 24 | And just as a | 24 | her characterization of whatever may or may not have | | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: So I think when when you | 25 | happened, could physically would just no. And | | | Page 147 | | Page 149 | | 1 | were just asked about the photo, you said you | 1 | plus, I was in the country, so all of that's just not | | 2 | actually thought the photo was fake. | | | | | | 2 | conceivable. | | 3 | Do you think it was just misdated or do | 2 | | | | Do you think it was just misdated or do
you think it's a fake literally a fake photo? | | conceivable. | | З | | 3 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you | | 3
4 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo? | 3
4 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really, | | 3
4
5 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's | 3
4
5 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the | | 3
4
5
6 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo. | 3
4
5
6 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a | | 3
4
5
6 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that? | 3
4
5
6
7 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or | | 3
4
5
7
8 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I | 3
4
5
6
7
8 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment? | | 3
4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes. | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other? | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again, | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've
met each other? | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but
if there's something that comes to mind in the '90s, | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but
if there's something that comes to mind in the '90s,
that's fine as well. | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've
met each other?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not know that
they met. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but
if there's something that comes to mind in the '90s,
that's fine as well.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A wedding? | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've
met each other?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not know that
they met.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So so you not | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but
if there's something that comes to mind in the '90s,
that's fine as well.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A wedding?
TODD BLANCHE: Weddings. | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've
met each other?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not know that
they met.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So so you not
only so you think the photograph is fake, but you | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but
if there's something that comes to mind in the '90s,
that's fine as well.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A wedding?
TODD BLANCHE: Weddings.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: With Epstein? I don't | | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22 | you think it's a fake literally a fake photo?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe it's
literally a fake photo.
TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I
don't remember it. We'll start
TODD BLANCHE: But you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Okay. But the
outfit I'm wearing
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: is the outfit from
my mum's birthday party.
TODD BLANCHE: So but you don't have
any do you dispute that they've met each other?
DAVID MARKUS: Do you know whether they've
met each other?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not know that
they met.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So so you not | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | conceivable.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you attend did you
attend social parties over and again, I really,
now I'm focused on 2000 plus, so not not the
earlier, where Mr. Epstein would host a party or be a
big part of the hosting of the party and some of, or
many of the young women who were masseuses would be
invited to the party, as guests or his entertainment?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I certainly went to
his house when he would have people who would be
there that were I call them I would the way
I would think of it and I would characterize it, were
his entourage. That's how I thought about it. And
that certainly was in the later 2000s, Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you attend any
weddings of famous people with Mr. Epstein? Again,
I'm mostly focused on post plus post 2000, but
if there's something that comes to mind in the '90s,
that's fine as well.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A wedding?
TODD BLANCHE: Weddings. | ![](_page_37_Picture_1.jpeg) 38 (Pages 146 to 149) | | Page 150 | | Page 152 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so you don't | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Yeah. | | 2 | remember you didn't attend President Clinton's | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: I'm not suggesting that | | 3 | daughter's wedding | 3 | I know the answer to it. I'm generally just asking. | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I would be | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Chelsea Clinton's. | 5 | astonished. I can't imagine they'd have anything in | | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | 6 | common either. | | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: But that wasn't with | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: How about | | 8 | Mr. Epstein? | 8 | DIEGO PESTANA: Were you friends with | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, it was with | 9 | Piers ? | | 10 | Ted Waitt, my boyfriend. | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've met him. I've | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Say it again. | 11 | met him. I met him at an event in Manhattan. I | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: With Ted Waitt, my | 12 | can't remember what in more recently, so probably | | 13 | boyfriend. | 13 | in 2012, '13, something in that, and we had a very | | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you know whether | 14 | nice conversation. So I remember I remember that. | | 15 | Mr. Epstein was at that wedding? | 15 | I remember thinking I'd never I | | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was not. | 16 | don't remember if I'd ever met him before, but I | | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And how did you | 17 | remember thinking how nice he was and I was | | 18 | did you have a relationship well, why did you get | 18 | surprised. So I liked him. What can I tell you? | | 19 | invited to that wedding? | 19 | So that's the only one that's the only | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Ted and | 20 | memory I have of that. I'm not sure if that's | | 21 | Clinton were very close. | 21 | correct but that's what I think. | | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: And why how were you | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: I don't have a correct or | | 23 | close to them? Like what was the reason you were | 23 | incorrect answer. I just want you to tell the truth. | | 24 | close to them? | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I just don't know. | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met President | 25 | I just want to try and | | | | | | | | Page 151 | | Page 153 | | 1 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want | | 2 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There | | 2
3 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere | | 2
3
4 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay. | | 2
3
4
5 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand. | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and | | 2
3
4
5
6 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something, | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I
just want to ask you if you know about: Piers | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I
just want to ask you if you know about: Piers
?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is friendly with who? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I
just want to ask you if you know about: Piers
?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is friendly with who?
TODD BLANCHE: With Mr. Epstein. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I
just want to ask you if you know about: Piers
?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is friendly with who?
TODD BLANCHE: With Mr. Epstein.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no idea. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: When was that? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I
just want to ask you if you know about: Piers
?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is friendly with who?
TODD BLANCHE: With Mr. Epstein. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: When was that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I will I met him at | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | Clinton well, I first of all, I went to the
House with Epstein once for, I think it was for
a historical, like one of those benefits and I met
the President then, but like a thousand other people
shook his hand.
Then after that, I had a very a good
friend of mine that was the mayor known to be the
Mayor of Miami Beach, Philip Levine, and Philip and
the President were very good friends. And Philip was
a very and I were very good friends, and so I
actually was introduced to the President post his
coming out of the House and became friendly
with him, because of Philip Levine.
DAVID MARKUS: Because of what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: There's some names that
have been publicly associated with Mr. Epstein that I
just want to ask you if you know about: Piers
?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Is friendly with who?
TODD BLANCHE: With Mr. Epstein.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no idea.
Never. I doubt it. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: No, but I don't I want
you to believe me and because I mean this. There
is so much information in the public sphere
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I see. Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: about you and
Mr. Epstein and others around, and some of it is
definitely true and some of it is definitely false
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. All right. I
just I guess that's
TODD BLANCHE: so when I ask a question

GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: if I think that you're
not being honest or that you're missing something,
I'm not going to this isn't got you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: I'll say that to you.
Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sorry?
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever meet JFK, Jr.?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: When was that? | ![](_page_38_Picture_1.jpeg) 39 (Pages 150 to 153) | | Page 154 | | Page 156 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | Andrew | 1 | relationship prior to that. I don't remember. | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2 | do actually. Sorry. | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Andrew wedding | 3 | I think they met at the same | | 4 | in | 4 | Martha's Vineyard through Forester. I think | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: So when would that have | 5 | that's what happened. I think that's it. | | 6 | been, approximately? | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: And why do you think that? | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 1990. | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because it just popped | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: So before | 8 | into my head. | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 1999. I don't I | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And did you did | | 10 | something like that. | 10 | you you said that Mr. Dershowitz was Mr. Epstein's | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: But would that have been | 11 | attorney. | | 12 | before you met Mr. Epstein? | 12 | Do you know whether they also socialized? | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Or maybe yes. | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So my personal memory | | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you have a any sort | 14 | of when I remember two I have two distinct | | 15 | of professional or social relationship with John F. | 15 | memories with Alan. One is with him and his wife at | | 16 | Kennedy, Jr.? | 16 | the island, and I actually remember that. And I | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I fancied him. | 17 | remember, I think, going to his house in Boston, if | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: You what? | 18 | he had a house in Boston, that's it was only two | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought he was very | 19 | times I remember. | | 20 | attractive. | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: , you fancied him. | 21 | Mr. Dershowitz doing anything inappropriate with | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. | 22 | young women around Mr. Epstein? | | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Besides him finding him | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. | | 24 | attractive and fancying him, did you have any sort | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever hear | | 25 | of, you know, social relationship with him? | 25 | anybody did anybody ever tell you that he had done | | | | | | | | Page 155 | | Page 157 | | 1 | Page 155
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each | 1 | Page 157 anything inappropriate? | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I | 2 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not. | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want | | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you | | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was | 2 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether | | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it. | 2
3
4
5 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or | | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz. | 2
3
4
5
6 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again. | 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that. | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that? | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
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12
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14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little
bit. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and if I met him | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little
bit.
So Ted and I bought a boat well, Ted | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
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13
14
15
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18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and if I met him
separate from I don't remember. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little
bit.
So Ted and I bought a boat well, Ted
bought the boat. And its basis of the boat was to | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and if I met him
separate from I don't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little
bit.
So Ted and I bought a boat well, Ted
bought the boat. And its basis of the boat was to
do explorations and sea sea exploratory stuff. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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17
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19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and if I met him
separate from I don't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So that I have no | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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19
20
21
22
23 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little
bit.
So Ted and I bought a boat well, Ted
bought the boat. And its basis of the boat was to
do explorations and sea sea exploratory stuff.
This really started because I have, and have had | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, we knew each
other. I thought he was wonderful and fun and I
enjoyed meeting him, but I we went out I want
to say we had a dinner or two, but obviously I was
very excited, but that was it.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Alan Dershowitz.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I what's the
question with Alan?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you say that again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What's the question?
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Dershowitz?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he knew
Mr. Epstein? Do you know the nature of their
relationship?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I definitely do
know Alan. I want I'm just trying to remember if
I knew him I am trying to remember how I met him.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and if I met him
separate from I don't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | anything inappropriate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever did you
do you know one way or the other, whether
Mr. Dershowitz ever got a massage at the island or
any of the locations that he was at with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember
anything about him ever getting massaged. I don't
ever have any recoll I don't believe I ever even
saw him in a bathrobe. I have no knowledge of that.
TODD BLANCHE: I'm jumping around a little
bit. You mentioned, I think briefly the TerraMar
Project.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: What is that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I founded TerraMar
in well, the idea of TerraMar came, I think in
2010. So I want to just explain TerraMar a little
bit.
So Ted and I bought a boat well, Ted
bought the boat. And its basis of the boat was to
do explorations and sea sea exploratory stuff. | ![](_page_39_Picture_1.jpeg) 40 (Pages 154 to 157) | 1 | Page 158 | | Page 160 | |----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----|-----------------------------------------------------| | 1 | I'm nervous about the state of the ocean. | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and I was in | | 2 | When Ted and I, we worked with National | 2 | charge. | | 3 | Geographic and we did exploratory work and the most | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So back in like '90, early | | 4 | exciting we did many exciting things, but one of | 4 | '90s? | | 5 | the most fabulous ones that we did was we looked for | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. And I was | | 6 | Amelia Earhart twice. I did two expeditions to look | 6 | running a magazine. One of the things in the | | 7 | for Amelia Earhart, as an example of an of a | 7 | magazine is fashion. And so I was going to some | | 8 | exploration that we did. | 8 | fashion shows and I was looking for fashion | | 9 | And he had a foundation for the ocean and | 9 | sponsorship. And in fact, when I came to America, | | 10 | we worked with Nat Geo, we worked with Hole. | 10 | one of the first sponsors that I got for it was Ron | | 11 | We did amazing things. | 11 | Perelman at Revlon, who was great. And I met | | 12 | We bought he bought the Remus 6000, so | 12 | Jean-Luc through just in Paris like that. But | | 13 | when the plane went missing, the plane that went | 13 | socially not | | 14 | was it Air France? From Brazil to Paris that went | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Did Mr. Epstein know him as | | 15 | down, it was the Remus 6000 that found that plane. | 15 | well? Did you later learn whether they knew each | | 16 | It's one of those deep sea explorers. | 16 | other? | | 17 | Anyway, when I broke up with Ted, I | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not sure I I | | 18 | just one of the things I did not want to give up | 18 | don't he would've Epstein had his own fashion | | 19 | was the my love of the ocean and everything that | 19 | situation, so he would've I don't he didn't | | 20 | we did and TerraMar, the genesis of TerraMar came | 20 | meet Jean-Luc through me. | | 21 | from that. So TerraMar obviously means land, sea. | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe them | | 22 | And the story of the ocean is that earth | 22 | together over the years? | | 23 | really shouldn't be called earth, it should be called | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. Yeah, I | | 24 | ocean because three quarters is the ocean. | 24 | saw them many times together. | | 25 | So and so I wanted to not clash with | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Did did he visit the | | | Page 159 | | Page 161 | | 1 | anything to do with Ted, because it was a bit awkward | 1 | island? | | 2 | between us and I so he took all the part of the | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 3 | ocean that was close to land, so within 200 miles. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did he go to Palm | | 4 | And so I decided I would focus on all the | 4 | meet go to Palm Beach House? | | 5 | part of the ocean that was outside of national | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, he went yeah, | | 6 | borders, TerraMar. And that's how that that's the | 6 | he went everywhere. I saw him in every place. | | 7 | genesis of TerraMar. Okay. | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Did do you ever observe him | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: So what was the time period | 8 | getting a massage or do you ever know whether they | | 9 | of that? | 9 | got a massage? Maybe you didn't observe him | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I think after | 10 | personally? You don't remember. | | 11 | I broke up with Ted, so 2010, '11 is when it started. | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, | | 12 | And then I ran it all the way up until whenever the | 12 | I don't I never I have no conscious memory of | | 13 | Epstein drama struck and then I just shut it down. | 13 | Jean-Luc. I would imagine that he did, but I | | 14 | Not I shut it down because I didn't | 14 | never I don't see it. | | 15 | want what was happening to hurt any the | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: How about Mr. Weinstein, | | 16 | Smithsonian or Nat Geo or the I just couldn't let | 16 | Harvey Weinstein? | | 17 | everything be hurt by what was happening to me. | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What would you like to | | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Jean-Luc | 18 | know? | | 19 | Brunel? | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know him? | | 10.0 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 20 | I I I I I BLANT HE' HOW do you know him? | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: How do you know him? Like, | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: How do you know him? | 22 | Lausse when Leav "how do you know him " is it a | | 21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him so | 22 | I guess when I say "how do you know him," is it a | | 21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him so
when I told you I was working for the European, | 23 | relationship you had kind of separate from | | 21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him so | | | ![](_page_40_Picture_1.jpeg) 41 (Pages 158 to 161) | | Page 162 | | Page 164 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wouldn't say | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: We're repeat we're now | | 2 | first of all, I wouldn't say I had any type of | 2 | being a little repetitive, but you're confident that | | 3 | relationship with Harvey Weinstein | 3 | before you met Mr. Epstein, he didn't know your | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 4 | father, and so there's no he wouldn't have done | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: in any context. | 5 | business with your father's companies in the '80s | | 6 | Socially, I would meet him because I would | 6 | either. | | 7 | go to events that Harvey would be at and also his | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not. I'm a | | 8 | wife was English back then, Georgina. And I was, I | 8 | hundred percent sure of that. I never met him. I | | 9 | mean, friendly also, would be a big word, more | 9 | never saw him. I never heard his name. No. | | 10 | acquaintance. | 10 | Nothing. | | 11 | So we would see each other and I would go | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: So there's been a lot of | | 12 | to Miramax events, be there was a couple of people | 12 | conversations about whether Mr. Epstein maintained, | | 13 | who worked for Harvey who I was friendly with, his | 13 | like, a list of people, like a book of famous people | | 14 | primary producer whose name is Meryl Poster, who I | 14 | that he knew. Like a, it's called a black book or a | | 15 | was friendly with, and yeah. | 15 | client list or a list. | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | 16 | Did you know of the existence of any such | | 17 | Mr. Epstein had his own relationship with | 17 | list? | | 18 | Mr. Weinstein? | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list. | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He did. | 19 | We'll start with that. The genesis of that story, I | | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Did they socialize together | 20 | can actually trace for you from its absolute | | 21 | at the island or in Palm Beach, or in New Mexico? | 21 | inception, if that is what you're interested in. | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw Harvey at | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: It is. | | 23 | any of Epstein's houses. So socialize I don't | 23 | DAVID MARKUS: Well, first, you know, to | | 24 | know that they were friends. I mean, I can't see | 24 | be short, there is no list, there's no client list. | | 25 | them together, either. I mean, literally. | 25 | Nothing like that. | | | | | | | | Page 163 | | Page 165 | | 1 | But I know that they certainly do that. I | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing | | 2 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing like that. | | 2
3 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of. | | 2
3
4 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously. | | 2
3
4
5 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called. | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So | | 2
3
4
5
6 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is, | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business
left. Start with that problem. And the second one | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, this is long. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business
left. Start with that problem. And the second one
is, my family didn't like him very much. And they | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, this is long.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, let's take a break. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business
left. Start with that problem. And the second one
is, my family didn't like him very much. And they
were busy dealing with their own problems and there | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, this is long.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: All right. The time is | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business
left. Start with that problem. And the second one
is, my family didn't like him very much. And they
were busy dealing with their own problems and there
was no relationship whatsoever. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, this is long.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: All right. The time is
2:03 and we're going to take a break right now. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business
left. Start with that problem. And the second one
is, my family didn't like him very much. And they
were busy dealing with their own problems and there
was no relationship whatsoever. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, this is long.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: All right. The time is
2:03 and we're going to take a break right now.
(Off the record at 2:03 p.m.) | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | But I know that they certainly do that. I
would imagine and in fact, I think I have a
memory, but I can't that when Harvey was trying to
raise money for whatever his business was called, I
can't remember what his business was called.
Maybe he went there, because Epstein was
good at raising money. I just don't know. But I
never saw them. I don't I don't recall seeing
Harvey in any of the properties.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's just go a few more
minutes and take a break, I know it's after lunch.
So do you we talked several hours ago
about your father and his business a little bit.
After your father passed, do you know
whether Mr. Epstein was involved in your family
business, that you know of?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely not, in any
respect. First of all, there was no family business
left. Start with that problem. And the second one
is, my family didn't like him very much. And they
were busy dealing with their own problems and there
was no relationship whatsoever. | 2
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22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there is nothing
like that.
TODD BLANCHE: That you know of.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I obviously.
TODD BLANCHE: Right. Yeah. Okay. So
you say you think you know the genesis, so go ahead.
Tell us.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'd like you to know
that I have brought some supporting corroborative
evidence to
TODD BLANCHE: Well, tell me what it is,
too, and then we'll get the corroboration.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Well, why don't you tell
him first.
DAVID MARKUS: Is this is this do
you want to take a break here because this is a
long
TODD BLANCHE: It's a long story.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, this is long.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: All right. The time is
2:03 and we're going to take a break right now. | Г ![](_page_41_Picture_1.jpeg) 42 (Pages 162 to 165) | | Page 166 | | Page 168 | |----|-------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | Thursday, July 24th. And the recording device is now | 1 | evidence was collected, and Brad became aware | | 2 | on. | 2 | of it after the second deposition. It's in the | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So when we stopped to take | 3 | criminal complaint. The truth is different from | | 4 | a break, we were talking about what has been publicly | 4 | what's in both the criminal complaint and in that FBI | | 5 | discussed as a black book or the Epstein list. And | 5 affidavit, and in Brad Edward's own statements on t | | | 6 | that's where we are. | 6 subject. | | | 7 | So you said you think you might know or | 7 | The truth is that Alfredo Rodriguez was | | 8 | that you're aware of kind of the origin of this | 8 | deposed twice, once in July and once in August. And | | 9 | narrative. | 9 | in the July deposition, told Brad that he had | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. I just want to | 10 | handwritten notes or a journal, whatever, in the | | 11 | reiterate again, there is no list that I am aware of. | 11 | deposition. | | 12 | I've never, at any time, at least during the period | 12 | And Brad replies, well, we're | | 13 | of time when I was | 13 | going to come back for a second deposition. And the | | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 14 | second deposition takes place in August. | | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: present. | 15 | What this means is that Brad had | | 16 | The origin of this story, I believe, | 16 | access to the list from sometime between July and | | 17 | begins or it has a beginning in 2009, and then it | 17 | August, until when he actually called the FBI in | | 18 | has a prequel but we have to start in 2009. | 18 | October. So we're talking six months or so. | | 19 | In 2009, there is Epstein is, I think, | 19 | Rothstein's firm was raided a few days | | 20 | out of jail, and there are civil suits taking place. | 20 | after the list went into the FBI's hands, and, | | 21 | Many of these are coming out of a disgraced law firm, | 21 | subsequently, Rothstein himself was prosecuted for | | 22 | Rothstein Adler Rothstein, Rosenfeldt & Adler. | 22 | RICO, and I believe went to jail for 50 years. | | 23 | At that law firm is a lawyer who started | 23 | As part of that RICO case, he admitted to, | | 24 | there in April, May, 2009, called Brad | 24 | on the record, and was I don't know whether he was | | 25 | 2009, allegedly the FBI gets a call in October of | 25 | prosecuted for creating fake settlements and fake | | | Page 167 | | Page 169 | | 1 | 2009 from Brad , and he allegedly tells them | 1 | evidence in Epstein's case. | | 2 | that he has come across a piece of evidence that | 2 | In 2009, simultaneously whilst this was | | 3 | belongs to Epstein, that contains a list of all of | 3 | going on, my boyfriend, Ted Waitt, was asked for | | 4 | his clients and victims, underage girls, massage | 4 | \$10 million to keep me out of any of Epstein's civil | | 5 | therapists, and his and the men who are having sex | 5 | suits. Up until then, I had not been in any of | | 6 | with them. And he becomes he, Brad | 6 | Epstein's civil suits. In fact, I wasn't even sure, | | 7 | becomes a cooperating witness cooperating | 7 | save for the first time I was mentioned was by | | 8 | LEAH SAFFIAN: Confidential. | 8 | , I hadn't been I was basically nowhere. | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: confidential | 9 | And then Ted was called for this | | 10 | informant, sorry. Confidential informant for them. | 10 | \$10 million and had been shown his people had been | | 11 | And in a sting operation obtains the list | 11 | shown evidence that included the list, the flight | | 12 | from a former of Epstein's called Alfredo | 12 | logs and various other pieces of evidence. | | 13 | Rodriguez. And it becomes evidence in the civil | 13 | Now, we're going to the prequel part of | | 14 | suit. | 14 | this story, so then it can tie to how this starts. | | 15 | In the Alfredo Rodriguez is | 15 | In 2007, Epstein signs the non-prosecution | | 16 | subsequently prosecuted for having an AK-47 or | 16 | agreement. He then fights the prosecution agreement | | 17 | something weird, some guns or something, and goes to | 17 | or debates it through the DOJ or whatever happened | | 18 | trial. And there's a criminal complaint that the FBI | 18 | there, and is goes to the court in 2008, when it's | | 19 | produced. | 19 | accepted or whatever that is. | | 20 | And in that criminal complaint, it says | 20 | Villafana was the lead prosecutor or the | | 21 | that Brad became aware of the list, but | 21 | lead yes, in that case. And she, I think, was not | | 22 | we'll call it the list for the purposes of this. | 22 | happy or with the outcome and utilized, at that time, | | 23 | After Alfredo Rodriguez's two depositions that are | 23 | Brad , to file the CVRA case. | | 24 | held in Epstein's civil suit. | 24 | Now, what is what I have managed to | | 25 | It's in the FBI's affidavit that the | 25 | understand from this is, within the OPR itself, there | ![](_page_42_Picture_1.jpeg) 43 (Pages 166 to 169) | 1 is evidence. There it says that Brad was the 2 only lawyer that she was allowed to talk to. So I 3 just want to preface that. 4 The reason why I know that she went behind 5 because Brad in a podcast made the 6 revelation. What he asys is that bed never heard of 7 the CVRA case before, and Villafana called him and 9 told him to file it. The sole purpose of the CVRA 9 with Brad in who she had also be working for 11 So when the lawyer that she had selected as a pro bono lawyer 13 for mat entrie time; creating fake evidence in 16 for start entrie time; creating fake evidence in 17 Epstein's case. 18 that what Brad in we vidence 19 overturn the NPA by filing the - this 20 CVRA case that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 10 the approxid, and whatnot - And the entime sing; 11 to warpto the overturning; 12 there for the vident in; is is a point and face widence in the widence of the vident in; is is a point and face widence in the start and purpose was to overturn the NPA and/or 12 Page 1771 14 was Brad in a | | Page 170 | | Page 172 | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 2 only lawyer that she was allowed to talk to. So I just want to preface that. 4 The reason why I know that she went behind A costa's back, and everything else to do this, is 5 because Brad in a podcast made the 7 revelation. What he says is that he'd never heard of 8 the CAR case before, and Villafana acilled him and 9 told him to file it. The sole purpose of the CVRA 9 was to overturn the non-prosecution agreement. 11 So what I believe is that Villafana worked 12 with Brad 13 the lawyer that she had selected as a pro bono lawyer 14 for some of the victims. And he was under RICO investigation 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in 17 TODD BLANCHE: So just - I was confused 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 10 for was against Epstein. 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 23 to suport the overturning, either of the NPA and/or 14 an eve case against Epstein. | 1 | is evidence. There it says that Brad was the | 1 | not in 2005 when this was allegedly taken, that came | | | | | 2 | | | 4 Acosta's back, and everything else to do this, is ime - my cvil case, imo a book that was taken 5 because Brad in a podcast made the 7 revelation. What he says is that he'd never heard of 8 the CVRA continue and Election and a called him and 9 told him to file it. The sole purpose of the CVRA of mine and Epstein's. That is a metamorphosis 11 So what he leive is that Villafiana worked inst mode and who she had also been he was 13 the lawyer that she had selected as a pro bono lawyer inst he was under RICO investigation 14 for some of the victims. And he was also working for inst he was under RICO investigation 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in into evertum the non she approached her with the list, this was 15 Do DB LANCHE: So just I was confused 16 for that was that speak 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I guess my thing is 18 that what Brad 19 in the case againts Epstein. 20 CVRA case, that the dift mew vidence 21 the approached her with the list, this was 22 part of the effort to uillize and find new evidence | | | | | | | | | · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · | | | 6 because Brading in a podcast made the revelation. What he says is that he'd never heard of the CVRA case before, and Villafana called him and the VRA case before, and Villafana called him and the VRA case before, and Villafana worked 6 Southern District of New York is a metamorphosis 9 told him to file it. The sole purpose of the CVRA of mine and Epstein's. That he sa metamorphosis 10 from what you just described, there is a list, it's iust manufactured. Meaning, have you seen the list, iust manufactured. Meaning, have you seen it, but 11 So what I believe is that Villafana worked iust manufactured. Meaning, have you seen it, but 12 with Brad intermine, creating fake evidence in intermine the rease on europea seen overturn it. And 12 For that entire time, creating fake evidence in TODD BLANCHE: So just I was confused 13 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And is so when he approached her with the list, this was is so is the was and and he was evidence 14 the alwyerthing. He was way, way more Page 171 15 Because Brad in a because. Rothstein's firm, and the base of this story was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waits 15 the alwyerthy man Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of that. Page 171 11 was Brad in the case, and sole of thes Story | | | · · · | | | 7 revelation. What he says is that he'd never heard of the CVRA case before, and Villafana called him and to thim to file it. The sole purpose of the CVRA was to overturn the non-prosecution agreement. 7 of mine and Epstein's. That is a metamorphosis through documents that you can trace. 10 was to overturn the non-prosecution agreement. 7 TODD BLANCHE: So the - in your mind, or from what you just described. Meaning, have you seen the list, the was the mais also working for for that entire time, creating fake evidence in the part of the offert to utilize and find new evidence to overturn the NPA by filing the - this story is basically controlled by five people. 7 GRISLAINE MAXWELL: So Just - I was confused 10 to support the overturning, either of the NPA and/or a new case against Epstein. 11 us subs that I had no knowledge of at that time whatase that a backmail of a billionaire, because Rothstein's firm asket matche blackmail and the men and the sax and whatnot - And the lawyers and now the sax and whatnot - And the lawyers and now the sax and whatnot - And the lawyers and now the sax and whatnot - And the lawyers and now the sax and whatnot - Matchelawyers. Thow know that the base of this story was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Rothstein's firm asket of the story was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Rothstein's firm asket and whatnot. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So - GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 10 12 Mat a becive that - And the lawyers and now the says and that be created he list. 13 was Band first Ston mile we wasay way more wealis that had no know thet ba | | | | | | | | | | | | 9 told him to file it. The sole purpose of the CVRA 9 TODD BLANCHE: So the - in your mind, or 10 was to overturn the non-prosecution agreement. 10 for what you just described, there is a list, it's 12 with Brad who she had also been - he was 11 just manufactured. Meaning, have you seen the list, 12 with Brad who she had also been - he was 12 cven fake? Like do you know - 14 for some of the victims. And he was also working for 16 TODD BLANCHE: So just - I was confused 15 Rothstein's Grase. 16 - 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in 16 - 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So just - I was confused - - 18 Math what filed hidden secret using 18 - 19 for that entire time, creating fake evidence 19 is - in the paperwork and whatnot. And in - so all 10 the solve propose was to overturn it. And 10 10 There's four alleged victims that speak 20 because Brad - or 1 don't know it 25 None of these stories carry from any of 14 was a multi-billionanire. Page 171 N | | | 8 | | | 10 was to overturn the non-prosecution agreement.
So what J believe is that Villafana worked 10 from what you just described, there is a list, it's 11 So what J believe is that Villafana worked 11 for some of the viciting, have you seen the list, 12 with Brad , who she had also been - he was 12 for some of the viciting, have you seen the list, 13 the lawyer that she had selected as a pro bono lawyer 13 for some of the viciting, have you seen the list, 14 for some of the viciting, fake evidence in 14 what sou just described, have vices 6HISLAINE MAXWELL: So just I was confused 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in 16 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I guess my thing is 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 18 that what Brad 38 sys in all of these things 19 for the ery torulize and find new evidence 10 this story is basically controlled by five people. 17 10 so subs that 1 had no knowledge of at that time 18 Hore stories carry from any of 11 was Brad 10 None of the sections. They never ever 12 Bread file onin, if anyone carese. And that is | | | | e , | | 11 So what I believe is that Villafana worked 11 just manufactured. Meaning, have you seen the list, 12 with Brad who she had also bered as a probonol lawyer if is a seen of the victims. And he was also working for if is a seen factor is firm, that was under RICO investigation if is CHISLAINE MAXWELL: I haven't seen it, but 14 for some of the victims. And he was also working for if is chick is o just I was confused 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in if is that what Brad says in all of these things 19 for some of the optrose was to overturn the NPA by filing the this if is story is basically controlled by five people. 10 for the effort to utilize and find new evidence is ownen he approached her with the list, this was is is in the papervork and whatnot. And in so all 11 was Brad Because Brad or I don't know it 20 12 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 20 Swe York for sure. But noone celse. 12 was balackmail of a billionaire, because full with a says in all of these this. 10 None of these stories carry from any of 2 reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 11 None of these stories carry. For weith was all 3 created s | | | | , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | | | | | | | | 13 the lawyer that she had selected as a pro bono lawyer 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I haven't seen it, but 14 for some of the victims. And he was also working for 14 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in 16 17 Epstein's case. 16 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 16 19 Image: the approache of the NPA by filing the this 17 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 18 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 20 22 bis ourpot the overtuming, either of the NPA and/or 23 23 to support the overtuming, either of the NPA and/or 24 24 a new case against Epstein. - or I don't know it 25 25 Because Brad - or I don't know it 25 New York for sure. But no one else. 24 was ablachmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 1 None of these stories carry from any of 2 the had verypting. He was way, way more 1 None of these about. 10 3 created - so then thet masseuses that were on 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but | | | | | | 14 for some of the victims. And he was also working for 14 what I 15 Rothstein's firm, that was under RICO investigation 15 TODD BLANCHE: So just I was confused 17 Epstein's case. 16 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I guess my thing is 19 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 18 that what Brad says in all of these things 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 10 that what Brad 5 so when he approached her with the list, this was eagainst Epstein. 10 There's four alleged victims that speak 21 a new case against Epstein. 22 about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 23 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 25 New York for sure. But no one else. Page 173 1 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 10 | | | | | | 15 Rothstein's firm, that was under RICO investigation 15 TODD BLANCHE: So just - I was confused 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in 16 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 16 19 Toto everturn the NPA by filing the this 18 that what Brad says in all of these things 19 Toto everturn the NPA by filing the this 18 that what Brad says in all of these things 20 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 18 that what Brad 18 this story is basically controlled by five people. 21 a new case against Epstein. 21 about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 22 about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 23 says Brad 12 None of these stories carry form any of 24 a new case against Epstein. Page 171 None of these stories carry from any of 1 25 Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 2 26 He had everything. He was way, way more what brea d | | | | | | 16 for that entire time, creating fake evidence in 16 17 Epstein's case. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I guess my thing is 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 18 that what Brad says in all of these things 19 Image: CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 10 that what Brad says in all of these things 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 10 this story is basically controlled by five people. 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 20 There's four alleged victims that speak 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 21 sec and whatnot - And the lawyers and now the 25 Because Brad - or I don't know it 25 None of these stories carry from any of 24 then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of 1 None of these stories carry from any of 3 with the base of this story 3 1 None of these stories carry from any of 4 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 1 TODD BLANCHE: So - 10 3 thet reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 16 TODD BLANC | | | | | | 17 Epstein's case. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I guess my thing is 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 18 that what Brad Says in all of these things 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 18 that what Brad Says in all of these things 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 20 that what Brad Says in all of these things 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 20 this story is basically controlled by five people. 23 a new case against Epstein. - or I don't know it 20 There's four alleged vicitms that speak 24 a new case against Epstein. - or I don't know it 21 Secause Rothstein's firm asked my 25 Because Rothstein's firm asked my - or I don't know it 10 None of these stories carry from any of 24 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt None of these stories carry from any of 11 None of these stories carry from any of 25 He had everything. He was way, way more 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 36 created so then the the masseuses that were on 11 TODD BLANCHE: So hat's what I was a | | | | 0 | | 18 And she had just filed hidden secret using 18 that what Brad says in all of these things 19 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturm it. And 19 is in the paperwork and whatnot. And in so all 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 19 is in the paperwork and whatnot. And in so all 22 basically controlled by five people. 21 23 a new case against Epstein. 22 24 a new case against Epstein. 22 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 25 7 Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 1 was Brad a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 1 None of these stories carry from any of 4 whatoover, I now know that the base of this story 4 TODD BLANCHE: But the list iself 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 8 that. 10 Interestori, fanyone cares. And that is 10 9 TODD BLANCHE: So 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 10 that. TODD BLANCHE: So that's in | | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I guess my thing is | | 19 to overturn the NPA by filing the this 19 is in the paperwork and whatnot. And in so all 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 20 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 20 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 20 23 a new case against Epstein. 20 24 a new case against Epstein. or I don't know it 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 26 then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 4 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 6 TODD BLANCHE: Now why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 10 that. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was a 13 createds othen the the masseuses that were on 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. 1 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 16 I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 16< | | 1 | | | | 20 CVRA case, that sole purpose was to overturn it. And 20 this story is basically controlled by five people. 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 21 There's four alleged victims that speak 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 22 about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 23 a new case against Epstein. 24 a new case against Epstein. 24 24 a new case against Epstein. 24 24 baout the list and the blackmail and the men and the 25 Because Brad - or I don't know it 25 None of these stories carry from any of 24 then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 3 3 was a blackmail of a billionaire. 7 TODD BLANCHE: But the list istelf GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 7 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 8 10 10 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 11 GHISLA | | | | | | 21 so when he approached her with the list, this was 21 There's four alleged victims that speak 22 to support the overturning, either of the NPA and/or about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 23 to support the overturning, either of the NPA and/or about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 24 an ew case against Epstein. 22 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 25 Page 171 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 4 was brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 5 was brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 4 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 4 TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself 5 mather billionaire, because Ted Waitt 6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Tere is no list, but 8 the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 1 TODD BLANCHE: where is it? 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 1 1 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 1 12< | | | | | | 22 part of the effort to utilize and find new evidence 22 about the list and the blackmail and the men and the 23 a new case against Epstein. 23 acw case against Epstein. 23 25 Because Brad - or I don't know it 25 None of these stories carry from any of 25 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 2 then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 3 4 whatsoever, I now know that be base of this story was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 5 6 was a multi-billionaire. 6 TODD BLANCHE: Hat the list itself 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 6 TODD BLANCHE: So +- 10 that. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sory. He created the list. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 10 list. Hes on that book that Alfredo heas. 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sory. He created a 11 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 14 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 15 not | | | | | | 23 to support the overturning, either of the NPA and/or 23 sex and whatnot And the lawyers and now the 24 a new case against Epstein. 24 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 24 26 Page 171 None of these stories carry from any of 1 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 2 the boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 3 subackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 4 was a multi-billionaire. - TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself 5 He had everything. He was way, way more 6 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 TODD BLANCHE: So +- 11 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was a 10 Iittle confused about. 11 13 roduced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my 11 Ital, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I Imode The produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my 14 | | | | · · | | 24 a new case against Epstein. 24 prosecutors, sorry. The Southern District of 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 25 New York for sure. But no one else. Page 171 was Brad Page 171 Page 171 1 was Brad Suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 1 None of these stories carry from any of 2 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 6 TODD BLANCHE: So 6 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 10 Biltite confused about. 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 10 Ilitt eonfused about. 13 root even from the civil suits that had come up since 10 Ilitt en so in that book that Alfredo 14 the list today. And I believe that Alfredo 11 TODD BLANCHE: Un-huh. 17 the sit stoday. 10 Ilitte confused about. 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 18 reated so then the the masseuses that were on 13 Ilitte confused about. 10 | | | | | | 25 Because Brad or I don't know it 25 New York for sure. But no one else. Page 171 1 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 Page 173 2 then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 3 4 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 4 None of these stories carry from any of 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 6 TODD BLANCHE: - where is it? 7 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 8 Fage 171 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 9 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 Brad Said that he created the list. 9 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 12 list. 13 produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I IA TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | | | | | | Page 171 Page 173 1 was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my 1 None of these stories carry from any of 2 then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 1 None of these stories carry from any of 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 1 None of these stories carry from any of 4 whatscover, I now know that the base of this story 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire. 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 9 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 13 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 the list today. 14 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 16 17 Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list. 16 TODD B | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Page 171 | | Page 173 | | 3 suits that I had no knowledge of at that time 3 say that they were farmed out to anybody. 4 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 5 say that they were farmed out to anybody. 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 6 TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself 6 Wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 6 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 Brad Said that he created the list. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 10 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 11 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 12 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 12 16 I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 16 17 the list today. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says 18 And I believe that Alfredo 16 17 GHISL | 1 | | 1 | | | 4 whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story 4 TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 6 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 6 TODD BLANCHE: where is it? 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 8 Brad Said that he created the list. 9 ther reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 9 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 Iittle confused about. 11 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 12 ist. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 13 produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 15 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 17 was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked myNone of these stories carry from any of | | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my | | None of these stories carry from any of | | 5 was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. 6 was a multi-billionaire. 6 TODD BLANCHE: where is it? 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 9 9 the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 10 that. 8 Brad said that he created the list. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 10 little confused about. 11 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was a 12 list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 15 and whatnot. 16 17 the list today. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says 18 And I believe that Alfredo 18 that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of 19 Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list. 10 10 all the people w | 2 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of | 2 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever | | 6 was a multi-billionaire. 6 TODD BLANCHE: where is it? 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 9 FODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 9 the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 9 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 Ititle confused about. 11 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 12 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 12 Ist. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 1- 14 trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 15 and whatnot. 16 17 the list today. 16 Fore seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 17 18 And I believe that Alfredo 18 that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of | 2
3 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time | 2
3 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody. | | 7 He had everything. He was way, way more 7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but 8 wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is 9 said that he created the list. 9 the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of 9 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 little confused about. 11 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 12 list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 13 produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 15 and whatnot. 16 I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 16 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 17 the list today. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says 18 And I believe that , Alfredo 18 that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of 19 Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this | 2
3
4 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story | 2
3
4 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself | | | 2
3
4
5 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt | 2
3
4
5 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 9 the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that. 9 TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a 10 that. 10 little confused about. 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 16 I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 16 I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 16 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 17 the list today. 16 TODD BLANCHE: And Brad says 18 And I believe that , Alfredo 18 that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of 19 Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list. 19 all the people who were involved. It includes Alan 20 So the original statement that Brad makes, 21 that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that 23 It then morphs into something that Alfredo 23 But I believe 24 took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's 24 TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire. | 2
3
4
5
6 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it? | | 10that.10little confused about.11TODD BLANCHE: So11GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was12list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez13created so then the the masseuses that were on14that list, I have never heard of some of them. I14that list, I have never heard of some of them. I14list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez15not even from the civil suits that had come up since16I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in16I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in16TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.17the list today.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Bradsays18And I believe thatAlfredo18that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of19Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.19all the people who were involved. It includes Alan20So the original statement that Bradmakes,2021that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that2122it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.2223It then morphs into something that Alfredo2324took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's2424took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's24 | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISL AINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but | | 11 TODD BLANCHE: So 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a 12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was 12 list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez 13 created so then the the masseuses that were on 13 produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my 14 that list, I have never heard of some of them. I 14 trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots 15 not even from the civil suits that had come up since 15 and whatnot. 16 I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in 16 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. 17 the list today. 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says 18 And I believe that Alfredo 18 that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of 19 Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list. 19 all the people who were involved. It includes Alan 20 So the original statement that Brad makes, 21 that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that 23 It then morphs into something that Alfredo 23 But I believe 24 took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's 24 TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list. | | 12GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was13created so then the the masseuses that were on14that list, I have never heard of some of them. I15not even from the civil suits that had come up since16I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in17the list today.18And I believe that , Alfredo19Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.20So the original statement that Brad makes,21that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that22it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.23It then morphs into something that Alfredo24took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a | | 13created so then the the masseuses that were on13produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my14that list, I have never heard of some of them. I13produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my15not even from the civil suits that had come up since14trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots16I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in16TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.17the list today.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Bradsays18And I believe that, Alfredo18that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of19Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.19all the people who were involved. It includes Alan20So the original statement that Bradmakes,20Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't21it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.23It then morphs into something that Alfredo2324took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's24TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that. | 2
3
6
7
8
9 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a | | 16I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.16TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.17the list today.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says18And I believe that , Alfredo18that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of19Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.19all the people who were involved. It includes Alan20So the original statement that Brad makes,20Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't21that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that21remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't23It then morphs into something that Alfredo23But I believe24took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's24TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez | | 16I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in16TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.17the list today.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says18And I believe that , Alfredo18that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of19Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.19all the people who were involved. It includes Alan20So the original statement that Brad makes,20Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't21that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that21remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't23It then morphs into something that Alfredo23But I believe24took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's24TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my | | 17the list today.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says18And I believe that , Alfredo18that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of19Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.18that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of20So the original statement that Brad makes,19all the people who were involved. It includes Alan21that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that20Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't22it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.21I don't know. You'd have to look. I don't have it.23It then morphs into something that Alfredo23But I believe24took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's24TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots | |
  1. Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.
  2. So the original statement that Brad makes,
  3. that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that
  4. it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.
  5. It then morphs into something that Alfredo
  6. took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's
  7. all the people who were involved. It includes Alan
  8. Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't
  9. remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't
  10. I don't know. You'd have to look. I don't have it.
  11. But I believe
  12. TODD BLANCHE: I see.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot. | | 20 So the original statement that Brad makes, 20 Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't 21 that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that 21 remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't 22 it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has. 22 I don't know. You'd have to look. I don't have it. 23 It then morphs into something that Alfredo 23 But I believe 24 took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's 24 TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | | 21that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that21remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't22it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.21remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't23It then morphs into something that Alfredo23But I believe24took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's24TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says | | | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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19 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.
And I believe that , Alfredo | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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19 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says
that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of
all the people who were involved. It includes Alan | | 23 It then morphs into something that Alfredo 23 But I believe 24 took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's 24 TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.
And I believe that , Alfredo
Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says
that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of
all the people who were involved. It includes Alan
Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't | | 24 took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's 24 TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
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13
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15
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20
21 | was Brad Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.
And I believe that, Alfredo
Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.
So the original statement that Brad makes, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says
that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of
all the people who were involved. It includes Alan
Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't
remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.
And I believe that Alfredo
Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.
So the original statement that Brad makes,
that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that
it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says
that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of
all the people who were involved. It includes Alan
Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't
remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't | | 25 computer, but there's no computer I know. Certainly 25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So what he did, he | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.
And I believe that , Alfredo
Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.
So the original statement that Brad makes,
that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that
it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.
It then morphs into something that Alfredo | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says
that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of
all the people who were involved. It includes Alan
Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't
remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't
I don't know. You'd have to look. I don't have it.
But I believe | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23
24 | was Brad . Because Rothstein's firm asked my
then boyfriend for \$10 million, to kick me out of
suits that I had no knowledge of at that time
whatsoever, I now know that the base of this story
was a blackmail of a billionaire, because Ted Waitt
was a multi-billionaire.
He had everything. He was way, way more
wealthy than Epstein, if anyone cares. And that is
the reason why Ted and I broke up, was the basis of
that.
TODD BLANCHE: So
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that list was
created so then the the masseuses that were on
that list, I have never heard of some of them. I
not even from the civil suits that had come up since
I've seen it. And this is me now knowing what's in
the list today.
And I believe that , Alfredo
Rodriguez, so there's a metamorphosis of this list.
So the original statement that Brad makes,
that's in the documents contemporaneously, is that
it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.
It then morphs into something that Alfredo
took a book, that Alfredo took from Epstein's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 | None of these stories carry from any of
the 44, alleged, original victims. They never ever
say that they were farmed out to anybody.
TODD BLANCHE: But the list itself
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: where is it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There is no list, but
Brad said that he created the list.
TODD BLANCHE: So that's what I was a
little confused about.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. He created a
list. He so in that book that Alfredo Rodriguez
produced, that became evidence, Exhibit 52 in my
trial, has markings all over it. Circles and dots
and whatnot.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And Brad says
that he got Alfredo Rodriguez to mark up the book of
all the people who were involved. It includes Alan
Dershowitz, for the record, who's marked. I don't
remember what it does with Donald Trump. I don't
I don't know. You'd have to look. I don't have it.
But I believe
TODD BLANCHE: I see. | ![](_page_43_Picture_1.jpeg) 44 (Pages 170 to 173) | | Page 174 | | Page 176 | |----------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | marked up I don't know who. Somebody marked up | 1 | Rothstein Adler's firm, I also have some documents | | 2 | that book of names, and I think all the names of the | 2 | where Rothstein his original scheme, Rothstein | | 3 | people that they went for were originally selected | 3 | Adler, was to place prostitutes. He had a bar, a | | 4 | between two sources. One was this alleged book of | 4 | dance bar where he had girls. And I believe he would | | 5 | names, and one was also from the telephone logs that | 5 | use them and put them as fake secretaries in people's | | 6 | were collected from the house in Palm Beach. | 6 | offices, and then she might touch him or he might | | 7 | And just to finish it off, there is a | 7 | touch her or something, and boom, he got \$25,000 for | | 8 | note I have some papers for you if you wanted | 8 | that. | | 9 | them, where Brad says that he has a list of | 9 | And those girlsnow, I'm not saying that | | 10 | 25 men that he got money off | 10 | those are the girls that came in Epstein's case | | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: So okay. So the list | 11 | necessarily, but the | | 12 | that everybody, the black book, the list, what you're | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: So but again, let's | | 13 | saying is that your your Exhibit 52 from your | 13 | like, so we're separating the evidence that came in | | 14 | trial, which is like a more of an address book, a | 14 | at your trial and what you just talked about with | | 15 | Rolodex type thing, that Mr. Rodriguez Alfredo | 15 | Brad and Mr. Rodriguez. | | 16 | Rodriguez, your understanding, is that somewhere | 16 | During the time that you were with | | 17 | along the way he went through and kind of marked that | 17 | Mr. Epstein, and even in the 2000s when you were | | 18 | list to say | 18 | around less frequently, you never observed or you | | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know where | 19 | never saw any sort of list or black book or a list of | | 20 | that book actually comes from. | 20 | individuals who, you know, linked to certain | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 21 | masseuses or | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know what that | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely no. | | 23 | book is. That book is some type of a compilation, | 23 | | | 24 | but what it is, is it's just pieces of paper with | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: anything like that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely no. There | | 25 | type. So if you had you could have made a list. | 25 | is no list. There is no I'm not aware of any | | 2.5 | | 2.5 | , | | | Page 175 | | Page 177 | | 1 | I could put | 1 | blackmail. I never heard that. I never saw it and I | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: But you're referring to | 2 | never imagined it. | | 3 | something that's been public for a long, if we're | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: While we're on this topic, | | 4 | thinking about the same thing. You're talking about | 4 | just and again, I know we're jumping around and | | 5 | the you're right, it's like a bunch of different | 5 | we've been going on it for a while, so I apologize. | | 6 | types of paper or whatever. I only have a copy of | 6 | But there's recently been reports about a | | 7 | it, but with big parts of it redacted publicly, | 7 | birthday book that you assembled for Mr. Epstein, I | | 8 | because there was people's addresses and whatnot on | 8 | think, for his 50th birthday in 2003. | | 9 | it. | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true. | | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. That's what I'm | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: What do you know about | | 11 | talking about. | 11 | that? | | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So, my mum did a | | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it , perfect. | 13 | birthday book for my father at his 60th. And when | | 14 | Yes. So you will find | 14 | I Epstein would talk about his 50th, he said, I | | | • | | | | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52 | 15 | don't know what I'm going to do. And I said, well, | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52 now. | 16 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my | | 16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're | 16
17 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my dad. He said, I love that idea. | | 16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced, | 16
17
18 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And | | 16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced,
they, the Southern District of New York actually | 16
17
18
19 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And
he organized who he called a lot of the people | | 16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced,
they, the Southern District of New York actually
produced a book for me to see it as evidence, the | 16
17
18
19
20 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And
he organized who he called a lot of the people
himself. I coordinated the putting together of the | | 16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced,
they, the Southern District of New York actually
produced a book for me to see it as evidence, the
actual thing it was. | 16
17
18
19
20
21 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And
he organized who he called a lot of the people
himself. I coordinated the putting together of the
book. And some in some instances, I called people | | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced,
they, the Southern District of New York actually
produced a book for me to see it as evidence, the
actual thing it was.
And I it has marks, it has tabs, it has | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And
he organized who he called a lot of the people
himself. I coordinated the putting together of the
book. And some in some instances, I called people
that asked them to contribute | | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced,
they, the Southern District of New York actually
produced a book for me to see it as evidence, the
actual thing it was.
And I it has marks, it has tabs, it has
things, it has names I've never seen. It had like | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And
he organized who he called a lot of the people
himself. I coordinated the putting together of the
book. And some in some instances, I called people
that asked them to contribute
TODD BLANCHE: And what was in the book? | | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: We're looking at Exhibit 52
now.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So you're
looking at Exhibit 52. So the one they produced,
they, the Southern District of New York actually
produced a book for me to see it as evidence, the
actual thing it was.
And I it has marks, it has tabs, it has | 16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
dad. He said, I love that idea.
He said, can you help coordinate it? And
he organized who he called a lot of the people
himself. I coordinated the putting together of the
book. And some in some instances, I called people
that asked them to contribute | ![](_page_44_Picture_1.jpeg) 45 (Pages 174 to 177) | | Page 178 | | Page 180 | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | birthday, say anything you want on a piece of paper. | 1 | like either a naked a picture of a naked woman or | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. | 2 | something like that. | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, nothing more | 3 | Do you have any recollection of that? | | 4 | than that. | 4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. But ju | | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Right. I mean, it was an | 5 no, I don't. | | | 6 | obvious question. But you basically his folks | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember so what | | 7 | were invited to send something to you to celebrate | 7 | do you remember seeing from your discovery around the | | 8 | his birthday. | 8 | book? Like you said, portions of it or some of the | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. To say happy | 9 | pages. | | 10 | birthday with like, have a wonderful day or something | 10 | What do you remember. | | 11 | else. There was no there was no ask, but I wasn't | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there were | | 12 | responsible for everybody in that book. And there | 12 | maybe so I just want to say about the discovery | | 13 | were people that he would ask himself to contribute. | 13 | that I had about maybe this is an exaggeration, | | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember some | 14 | I'm not sure, but in my mind it's about close to 5 | | 15 | do you remember specific names of individuals who did | 15 | million page 5 million documents. It was a lot. | | 16 | send letters or who did contribute? | 16 | And of that giant document dump that I | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's been so long. I | 17 | received, I was only maybe as much as 30 to 35 | | 18 | want to tell you, but I don't remember. | 18 | percent, I was never able to access. And this is | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you | 19 | documented on at the court. And so I cannot say | | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I honestly don't | 20 | that I saw everything, because I didn't. | | 21 | remember. | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. | | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: The article talks about | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I just want you to | | 23 | several names, but including the folks the | 23 | know that. And I think that that was by design. | | 24 | article, which is on Donald Trump. Do you remember | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: But you but you do | | 25 | President Trump submitting a letter or a card or a | 25 | remember | | | Page 179 | | Page 181 | | 1 | note? | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do remember some | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't. | 2 | B0/702 | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you think the | | pages. | | | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the | | 4 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or | 3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book? | | 5 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in | 3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes. | | 5
6 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York? | 3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what | | 5 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had | | 5
6
7
8 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember | 3
4
5
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no? | | 5
6
7
8
9 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing? | 3
4
5
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't | | 5
6
7
8
9
10 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry. | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those, | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals. | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery ? | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years? | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , in my discovery, | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In your discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , in my discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from
President Trump. | 3
4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your
relationship with Mr. Epstein or separate? | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In your discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In your discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from
President Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember but | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your
relationship with Mr. Epstein or separate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That one well, I | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , in my discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from
President Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember but
separate and apart from your discovery, do you | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your
relationship with Mr. Epstein or separate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That one well, I
met Mr. Gates I went to the TED conference. I | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In your discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from
President Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember but
separate and apart from your discovery, do you
remember one way or the other whether President Trump | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your
relationship with Mr. Epstein or separate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That one well, I
met Mr. Gates I went to the TED conference. I
gave I went to the TED conference and I actually | | 5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | articles well, do you remember seeing that book or
any portion of the letters in your discovery in
New York?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
seeing?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
was there were some portions of that book. But
what surprised me yeah. What surprised me was how
few there were, because I thought if you had those,
where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In your discovery,
sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from
President Trump.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember but
separate and apart from your discovery, do you
remember one way or the other whether President Trump
submitted a letter for his 50th birthday? | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
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11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: seeing some pages of the
book?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
pages you saw? Like from it was from who had
written those letters or no?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
remember. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
did you and/or so the same questions we've
asked about some other individuals.
Did you have did you meet Bill Gates
over the years?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Because of your
relationship with Mr. Epstein or separate?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That one well, I
met Mr. Gates I went to the TED conference. I
gave I went to the TED conference and I actually
spoke at the TED Conference, not the main stage, the | ![](_page_45_Picture_1.jpeg) 46 (Pages 178 to 181) | | Page 182 | | Page 184 | | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--| | 1 | his I don't know if he was chief of staff or | 1 | That list, do you know how that list was | | | 2 | whoever, Boris. And I met him, I think, once. I may | 2 | created? | | | 3 | have met him actually at 71st Street. I may have | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. That all that | | | 4 | once. I don't remember if I met him there or at a | | | | | 5 | restaurant, I don't remember. And that would've been | 5 TODD BLANCHE: As far as part of th | | | | 6 | because of Epstein, because Epstein was friendly with | 6 | story you just told us? | | | 7 | Boris and Boris that's all I remember. | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Now, I'm not | | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | 8 | saying it's all fake. I don't know what's real and | | | 9 | Mr. Gates traveled with Mr. Epstein on his plane to | 9 | what's not. I don't | | | 10 | any of his houses? | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Understood. | | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So if that that | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: know what name is | | | 12 | friendship was after, you know, it was in the late | 12 | true. Now that it's been to my mind anyway, now that | | | 13 | 2000s. So if I met him like I said, I went to | 13 | it has been, without a doubt, contaminated and | | | 14 | Epstein's house maybe once or twice. Maybe I met him | 14 | possibly fraudulent, I'm not I don't know. I | | | 15 | there. I don't remember. | 15 | mean, obviously the numbers that I recognize are my | | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: So you don't | 16 | own, those are real. | | | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I wouldn't know if | 17 | But how it was actually ended up put | | | 18 | he had been on Epstein's plane. | 18 | together and compiled and the purposes for it, for | | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: And you weren't you | 19 | which then they blackmailed my boyfriend, now I'm | | | 20 | don't recall ever being on the plane with him flying | 20 | just no. | | | 21 | to the island or to anywhere? | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Over the years when you | | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 22 | were serving as like the general manager, so the mid | | | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know somebody named | 23 | '90s all the way into the 2000s. Did you or do you | | | 24 | Reid Hoffman? | 24 | know whether anyone maintained a list of all the | | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. | 25 | masseuses, like a running list? | | | | Page 183 | | | | | | Page 183 | | Page 185 | | | 1 | Page 183
TODD BLANCHE: Who's that? | 1 | Page 185
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've | | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon | 1 2 | | | | | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that? | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've | | | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what? | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know | | | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley. | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that | | | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him? | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
describing, which I'm not it makes sense. I'm | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
describing, which I'm not it makes sense. I'm
just was that a list of masseuses or a list of | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
describing, which I'm not it makes sense. I'm
just was that a list of masseuses or a list of
people that might need to be contacted, which would, | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No.
TODD BLANCHE: So there was there's a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
describing, which I'm not it makes sense. I'm
just was that a list of masseuses or a list of
people that might need to be contacted, which would,
necessarily, include a lot of masseuses? | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No.
TODD BLANCHE: So there was there's a
list of multiple masseuses that is floating around. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
describing, which I'm not it makes sense. I'm
just was that a list of masseuses or a list of
people that might need to be contacted, which would,
necessarily, include a lot of masseuses?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's the latter. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
Valley guy.
TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
San Francisco. I have a I used to have a very
close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
that whole I have several, actually, or had.
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No.
TODD BLANCHE: So there was there's a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've
so there's two things well, three ways. So I know
that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that
he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
came to the house so that he could call.
Sobecause I only was with Epstein, even
at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
whoever else.
So everybody whoever was traveling with
him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
access information. So he had an assistant chief who
was his secretary, who would be the one that would
update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
address book.
TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
describing, which I'm not it makes sense. I'm
just was that a list of masseuses or a list of
people that might need to be contacted, which would,
necessarily, include a lot of masseuses? | | ![](_page_46_Picture_1.jpeg) 47 (Pages 182 to 185) ٦ | | Page 186 | | Page 188 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | that would add names to it? Like if a masseuse came | 1 | DAVID MARKUS: But it's still enforceable | | 2 | and leaves and Mr. Epstein says yes, she was good, | 2 | as to her. | | 3 | would you be part like, how, how was the list kind | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, he never said, | | 4 | of maintained or who maintained it? | 4 | hey, do you are you happy with this deal like | | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Typically, no | 5 | that. But I understood. He never he never | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: No. | 6 | enjoined me to the NPA, but I understand that he | | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: because there would | 7 | included me, specifically, and I'll tell you why. | | 8 | be an assistant who would do that. Plus, Epstein | 8 | DAVID MARKUS: Well, it's okay. You don't | | 9 | would not allow me to answer the telephone ever. So | 9 | need to get into that. | | 10 | or maintain or keep any of his messages in the | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: No, no. Yeah. I'm not | | 11 | office or at the house. | 11 | I don't want to talk about the legal the what's | | 12 | So typically that wouldn't be, because I | 12 | on appeal. I'm just | | 13 | wouldn't be the one. Could I say to you I never did | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I well, I | | 14 | it? No, of course not. Because that just seems | 14 | wasn't. | | 15 | ludicrous. But as a rule of thumb, the answer would | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: The reason for my question, | | 16 | be no. | 16 | just to be I'm not trying to hide something, but | | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: During the 2007, '08, '09, | 17 | there's a very strong belief that he got a very good | | 18 | investigation the investigation out of the | 18 | deal. And that he should she he should have | | 19 | Southern District of Florida. So you said that you | 19 | been sentenced to more time or got a different | | 20 | weren't contacted by law enforcement. | 20 | sentence from the feds than a non-prosecution | | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was not. | 21 | agreement. | | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: After Mr. Epstein was | 22 | And I'm not asking you to opine on that, | | 23 | charged, did you have conversations with him about | 23 | but I'm wondering whether he ever talked to you about | | 24 | the investigation? | 24 | that. But it sounds like he didn't. | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He never talked to me | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That he got a good | | 2.5 | | 2.5 | | | | | | Page 199 | | | Page 187 | | Page 189 | | 1 | about it. | 1 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments | | 2 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you | 2 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal. | | 2
3 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't | 2
3 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so | | 2
3
4 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no | 2
3
4 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did. | | 2
3
4
5 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have | 2
3
4
5 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his | | 2
3
4
5
6 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing | 2
3
4
5
6 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during
that time, like when he was allowed to leave during | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just | 2
3
4
5
7
8 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during
that time, like when he was allowed to leave during
the day or travel during the day? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during
that time, like when he was allowed to leave during
the day or travel during the day?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never called him. I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during
that time, like when he was allowed to leave during
the day or travel during the day?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never called him. I
never saw him and I never went to the jail. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during
that time, like when he was allowed to leave during
the day or travel during the day?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never called him. I
never saw him and I never went to the jail.
TODD BLANCHE: So I'm going to ask you | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | deal. No. I think actually well, his comments
that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
hard is because he didn't think he did.
TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
sentence, were you ever were you around during
that time, like when he was allowed to leave during
the day or travel during the day?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never called him. I
never saw him and I never went to the jail.
TODD BLANCHE: So I'm going to ask you
questions that you shouldn't read into them. I just | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good.
You were to the extent you know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | | | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good.
You were to the extent you know
anything about it, it's just from what you've heard | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good.
You were to the extent you know
anything about it, it's just from what you've heard
or read from others, not from Mr. Epstein; is that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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20
21 | | | 2
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8
9
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13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good.
You were to the extent you know
anything about it, it's just from what you've heard
or read from others, not from Mr. Epstein; is that
right? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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17
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22 | | | 2
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23 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good.
You were to the extent you know
anything about it, it's just from what you've heard
or read from others, not from Mr. Epstein; is that
right?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He never talked about | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
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12
13
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23 | | | 2
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9
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13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | about it.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't
let's put it this way. If he did, I have no
recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
said, this is all whatever he said or it's nothing
or whatever.
I mean, I just don't have any I just
don't have any memory. I mean, I just I was with
Ted. My I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
didn't want to know either, I suppose.
TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
discussion along the way.
Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
good deal or, you know, I something is happening
with the case that's very good.
You were to the extent you know
anything about it, it's just from what you've heard
or read from others, not from Mr. Epstein; is that
right? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
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22 | | ![](_page_47_Picture_1.jpeg) 48 (Pages 186 to 189) | 1 | Page 190 | | Page 192 | |---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not deliberately. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember any | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And did you know
we asked this we talked about this a little bit | 3 | conversations with Epstein about a book that Mr. Barr | | 1 | | 4 wrote called Space Relations? | | | 4 | earlier, but just to put a finer point on it. Did | | | | 5 | you ever know that Mr did you ever were you | 5 | | | 6 | ever told did you ever think that Mr. Epstein was | 7 | that.
TODD BLANCHE: About aliens and sex? | | 7 | getting any money from any intelligence agency,
including Mossad? | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. No. | | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I don't believe | 9 | | | 10 | , | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | | | so, but I wouldn't know. I mean, I would be very | 11 | well, have you ever met the former Attorney General
of the United States Bill Barr? | | 11
12 | surprised if he did. I don't think so. No. | | | | | TODD BLANCHE: We've talked about a lot of | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | | 13 | names and I'm sure we've there's some that we | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember whether | | 14 | haven't covered. Are there any foreign nationals | 14 | Mr. Epstein knew him or whether his name ever came up | | 15 | so right now we've talked about some British, the | 15 | in conversations you had with Mr. Epstein? | | 16 | Family a little bit, and maybe high society | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't recall any. | | 17 | folks in Britain. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Did you have a | | 18 | Were there any international businessmen | 18 | relationship or know I'm using "relationship," but | | 19 | or politicians that had a very close relationship or | 19 | I appreciate you don't like that word. | | 20 | a close relationship with Mr. Epstein, that we | 20 | Do you have did you know Mr. Epstein's | | 21 | haven't already talked about? | 21 | brother Mark Epstein? | | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Off the top of my, | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 23 | head, I can think of Ehud Barak. | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: How did you know him? | | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: You said that Mr. Epstein | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through Jeffrey. | | 25 | at some point in the mid to late '90s he started | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: How would you describe your | | | Page 191 | | Page 193 | | 1 | taking testosterone. Did you ever know him to take | 1 | relationship; close, friendly? | | 2 | any other drugs? | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My personal? | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I mean, he took | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Yes. | | 4 | pills for his heart, I think, but I don't no | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not that close, but | | 5 | other no substances. | 5 | friendly enough. I mean, you know. | | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: What do you know | 6 | TODD DI ANCHE, Harrison Iaffred Enstainin | | 7 | anything about his heart condition? I know we talked | | TODD BLANCHE: How was Jeffrey Epstein's | | | | 7 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you | | 8 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do | 7 | | | 9 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do you know anything about his heart condition, beyond | | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were | | | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do | 8 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't | | 9
10
11 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do you know anything about his heart condition, beyond | 8
9
10
11 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were | | 9
10
11
12 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that | 8
9
10
11
12 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein | | 9
10
11
12
13 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did | 8
9
10
11
12
13 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating. | | 9
10
11
12
13
14 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr, | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean. | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the | | 9
10
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13
14
15
16
17 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit. | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry. | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
any role in that process with Mr. Acosta? | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Do you know someone | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
any role in that process with Mr. Acosta?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard that. | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Do you know someone
named Donald Barr? | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
any role in that process with Mr. Acosta?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard that.
TODD BLANCHE: I think you said this in an | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Do you know someone
named Donald Barr?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
any role in that process with Mr. Acosta?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard that.
TODD BLANCHE: I think you said this in an
interview, but if I'm wrong forgive me. Do you have | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Do you know someone
named Donald Barr?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: He is I can represent to | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
any role in that process with Mr. Acosta?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard that.
TODD BLANCHE: I think you said this in an
interview, but if I'm wrong forgive me. Do you have
a view of Mr. Epstein of whether he committed suicide | | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
that you understood he had a heart condition that
affected his ability to have sex?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
take pills. I don't know what I don't know
anything above that. And like I said, he did the
testosterone, which made him mean.
TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
little bit.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Do you know someone
named Donald Barr?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | relationship with his brother Mark from what you
observed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
brotherly, but I think that I don't know. I don't
know. They had periods when they were closer and
then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
found his brother irritating.
TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
but did you ever hear any from Mr. Epstein or
anybody else that Bill Barr had any role in
Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
any role in that process with Mr. Acosta?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard that.
TODD BLANCHE: I think you said this in an
interview, but if I'm wrong forgive me. Do you have | ![](_page_48_Picture_1.jpeg) 49 (Pages 190 to 193) | 1 | Page 194 | | Page 196 | | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--| | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Want to take a break? | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Was the Prime Minis- was | | | 2 | DAVID MARKUS: Yeah, sure. | 2 | Mr. Barak, Prime Minister Barak, do you know what the | | | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. We can take a break. | 3 | nature of his relationship was with Mr. Epstein? | | | 4 | Yeah. Sure. Actually, it's a good time to take a | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't. | | | 5 | break anyway, because it's to be the last one of the | 5 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know were | | | | 6 | day. | 6 | ever with them together? | | | 7 | SPENCER HORN: All right. So we're going | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think I met I | | | 8 | to take a break at it's 2:53, Thursday, July 24th. | 8 | have a memory of meeting Ehud, but I don't know if he | | | 9 | (Off the record at 2:53 p.m.) | 9 | was with Epstein or I don't remember. I just know | | | 10 | SPENCER HORN: We are continuing with the | 10 | that I did see him and I'm trying struggling to | | | 11 | recorded proffer of Ms. Maxwell. The time is now | 11 | remember the context around it, but if I if I'm | | | 12 | 3:10 p.m., Thursday, July 24th. | 12 | sure it happened, but it must have been very brief. | | | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: My colleagues alerted me to | 13 | Because I don't have any serious memory of it. Any | | | 14 | a couple questions I think I may have forgotten to | 14 | like, deep memory of that. | | | 15 | ask you. One is sorry, I'm just going through my | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: And maybe this is | | | 16 | notes. | 16 | obvious | | | 17 | Well, we talked few minutes ago about this | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And maybe it comes | | | 18 | birthday book that there's press about. I understand | 18 | also because I've read it in the press. That may be | | | 19 | you don't remember anything with President Trump or a | 19 | something that brought it to my memory. So that's | | | 20 | lot about the book anyway. | 20 | also I mean, I'm also I think the press has | | | 21 | Do you remember asking President Trump to | 21 | been very contaminating, so I just it's hard | | | 22 | submit a letter for that? | 22 | sometimes to separate those stories from your memory | | | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. | 23 | sometimes. | | | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know a British | | | 25 | would you have been the one to do that or could | 25 | gymnast by the name of ? | | | | Page 195 | | Page 197 | | | | | | | | | 1 | somebody else would somebody else have done that? | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she | | | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I | 2
3 | | | | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast. | | | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly. | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading | | | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with | | | 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein? | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point. | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you | | | 2
3
4
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9
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12
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15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000? | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or
the state of Israel, I'm always interested in, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say I | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or
the state of Israel, I'm always interested in,
because my father loved Israel and so I pay attention | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say I
don't know, it could be the '90s could be the | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or
the state of Israel, I'm always interested in,
because my father loved Israel and so I pay attention
to it and we have ties to, you know, to Israel. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say I
don't know, it could be the '90s could be the
'90s, I don't know. But I mean, listen, there are | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or
the state of Israel, I'm always interested in,
because my father loved Israel and so I pay attention | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say I
don't know, it could be the '90s could be the
'90s, I don't know. But I mean, listen, there are
people that pop out of the woodwork all the time. I | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or
the state of Israel, I'm always interested in,
because my father loved Israel and so I pay attention
to it and we have ties to, you know, to Israel.
TODD BLANCHE: When you said it was later | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say I
don't know, it could be the '90s could be the
'90s, I don't know. But I mean, listen, there are | | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
directly.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
happened that way, if it happened at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
I do know that they I don't know if friendly would
be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
that they saw each other and only because my
father you know, anything that touches Israel or
the state of Israel, I'm always interested in,
because my father loved Israel and so I pay attention
to it and we have ties to, you know, to Israel.
TODD BLANCHE: When you said it was later
though | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: Did she
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
a gymnast.
TODD BLANCHE: , okay. I'm reading
something that says she was a gymnast, but please
don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
my words.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
you and/or Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
actually. I think that she might have been one of
Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
TODD BLANCHE: What again, I know we're
talking about time periods that are vast. What time
period would that have been? Like after you
like since 2000?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say I
don't know, it could be the '90s could be the
'90s, I don't know. But I mean, listen, there are
people that pop out of the woodwork all the time. I
just saw one on TV saying she was his girlfriend in | | ![](_page_49_Picture_1.jpeg) 50 (Pages 194 to 197) | | Page 198 | | Page 200 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Or there's that. | | to New Mexico? | | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Did - someone named Mark | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't | | 3 | Middleton | 3 | remember ever at the island. But the most | | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I remember him. | 4 memorable trip I do recall with Senator was to Italy | | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Who was that? | 5 TODD BLANCHE: Was to where? | | | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was in the | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: To Italy. | | 7 | Mr. Clinton's administration President Clinton's | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Ah, okay. | | 8 | administration, I think. | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: We went to Rome. | | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: And how do you do you | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: As the four of you. So | | 10 | know him? | 10 | Heather and Mr. Mitchell, and you and Mr. Epstein? | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I met him and | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's my | | 12 | that is I met him through Mr. Epstein. | 12 | recollection. | | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you was he, from | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: And what were you there | | 14 | what you observed, was he a friend or business | 14 | for? | | 15 | acquaintance of Mr. Epstein? | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, the most | | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I only saw him | 16 | memorable aspect of that trip is we went to the | | 17 | a handful of times, but I did see him with him. I | 17 | Vatican. It was extraordinary, the most | | 18 | mean, he seemed friendly. I don't know if I would | 18 | extraordinary thing was going to the archives and | | 19 | characterize I mean, only having seen him briefly, | 19 | holding Henry VIII's document to the Pope asking for | | 20 | I don't know how to characterize that. | 20 | his divorce. | | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he like | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know the former | | 22 | flew on airplanes with Mr. Epstein? Did he visit the | 22 | president of Colombia, Andr?s Pastrana? | | 23 | island? Do you know anything about that or their | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 24 | relationship as it relates to that? | 24
25 | TODD BLANCHE: How do you know him? | | 25 | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met Andr?s Pastrana | | | | | | | | Page 199 | | Page 201 | | 1 | Page 199
have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the | 1 | in a pub in Dublin. | | 1
2 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the island. | 2 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with | | 1
2
3 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator | 2
3 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know? | | 1
2
3
4 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell? | 2
3
4 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't | | 1
2
3
4
5 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator | 2
3
4
5 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the | | 1
2
3
4
5
6 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember | 2
3
4
5
6 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he | | 1
2
4
5
6
7 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him. | 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there. | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba? | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia. | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba? | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
Heather? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
Heather?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heather, yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so
we went there, and he organized the trip and we met | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
Heather?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heather, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Was Mr. Epstein friends | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so
we went there, and he organized the trip and we met
Fidel Castro. | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
Heather?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heather, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Was Mr. Epstein friends
with, Mr. Mitchell? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so
we went there, and he organized the trip and we met
Fidel Castro.
TODD BLANCHE: When was that, | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
Heather?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heather, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Was Mr. Epstein friends
with, Mr. Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so
we went there, and he organized the trip and we met
Fidel Castro.
TODD BLANCHE: When was that,
approximately? | | 1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
island.
TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
Mitchell?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
,
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
him?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
We went to the most memorable affair I went to
well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
just friendly, I would say separately with
separately from her husband. I was friends with
Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
became friends.
TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
Heather?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heather, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Was Mr. Epstein friends
with, Mr. Mitchell? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | in a pub in Dublin.
TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
Mr. Epstein, that you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
know if I don't know if he ever was ever on the
plane. I don't know if he ever I don't think he
ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
Andr?s Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
and Andr?s Pastrana was I think was there.
TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
pilot and Andr?s is a helicopter pilot. And we just
became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My I have a friend
of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so
we went there, and he organized the trip and we met
Fidel Castro.
TODD BLANCHE: When was that, | ![](_page_50_Picture_1.jpeg) 51 (Pages 198 to 201) | | Page 204 | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. 1 TO | DD BLANCHE: So you're going to tell us | | | believe, but just to I just want to make | | 5 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | erstand, your basis for belief is kind of | | | ve read and seen and your knowledge of | | | in for the many years you knew them knew | | 6 of questions, just but as far as a catchall, 6 him, right | | | | ISLAINE MAXWELL: And actually there's a | | 8 information about all kinds of names, including some 8 third com | - | | | DD BLANCHE: Okay. | | | ISLAINE MAXWELL: The answer to that is, | | 11 For any of the folks that we've talked 11 yes. | | | 12 about today, did you observe them doing anything 12 TO | DD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 13 improper with Mr. Epstein, whether with masseuses or 13 GH | ISLAINE MAXWELL: And there's a third | | | t to that, which is having experienced now, | | 15 at the residence that they were at or at the parties 15 the misma | nagement and inefficiencies and total | | 16 that they were at? 16 dereliction | n of duty at the Bureau of Prisons. | | , | DD BLANCHE: From BOP. From the Bureau | | 18 time, see that. 18 of Prisons | | | | ISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | | DD BLANCHE: Okay. Fair. Okay. So, | | | , I want to what I do want to be careful | | | you know, asking you to speculate, | | | nybody can do that. And I don't think | | | to you or anybody else to ask you to give | | 25 someone else that works with Mr. Epstein or somebody 25 us your ki | nd of opinion. | | Page 203 | Page 205 | | ů. | t, do you think that the third point | | | which is kind of a failure by the BOP, | | | en a lot of there's an OIG report, | | | NY investigation about that. Do you so | | | he was he did not die by suicide, given | | | ngs we just talked about. | | | IISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not believe he | | 8 ever, ever, ever complained to me or tears, nothing 8 died by su | - | | | DD BLANCHE: And do you believe that | | 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. All right. So we 10 do you ha 11 took a break when we were talking about Mr. Epstein 11 him? | ve any speculation or view of who killed | | e i | IISLAINE MAXWELL: I no, I don't. | | | DD BLANCHE: And I ask that because, if | | | believe that there's any truth to the | | | s of blackmail or that he had kind of a | | | t he had reasons to have people hate him, | | 16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you 16 list, or tha | ine interested to intro propre intro intro, | | | d somebody kill him in prison? | | 17 DAVID MARKUS: , thanks. I thought you 17 why woul | d somebody kill him in prison?
IISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am, | | 17DAVID MARKUS:17why woul18were giving it to him.18GH | | | 17DAVID MARKUS:17why woul18were giving it to him.181819GHISLAINE MAXWELL:I've got something19they will be an an an an an an an an an an an an an | IISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am, | | 17DAVID MARKUS:17why woul18were giving it to him.18GH19GHISLAINE MAXWELL:I've got something19they will I20that blew up my nose.20pay a prise21TODD BLANCHE:So just take some water.21commissa | IISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am,
kill you or they will pay somebody can | | 17DAVID MARKUS:17why woul18were giving it to him.18GH19GHISLAINE MAXWELL:I've got something19they will I20that blew up my nose.20pay a prise21TODD BLANCHE:So just take some water.21commissa22It's okay, no problem.22with a loc | IISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am,
kill you or they will pay somebody can
oner to kill you for \$25 worth of
ry. That's about the going rate for a hit
k today. | | 17DAVID MARKUS:17why woul18were giving it to him.18GH19GHISLAINE MAXWELL:I've got something19they will H20that blew up my nose.20pay a prise21TODD BLANCHE:So just take some water.21commissa22It's okay, no problem.22with a loc23You were not at the MCC during that time,23TO | IISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am,
still you or they will pay somebody can
oner to kill you for \$25 worth of
ry. That's about the going rate for a hit
k today.
DD BLANCHE: So that goes to the third | | 17DAVID MARKUS:17why woul18were giving it to him.18GH19GHISLAINE MAXWELL:I've got something19they will I20that blew up my nose.20pay a prise21TODD BLANCHE:So just take some water.21commissa23You were not at the MCC during that time,23TO24correct?24reason, with | IISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am,
kill you or they will pay somebody can
oner to kill you for \$25 worth of
ry. That's about the going rate for a hit
k today. | ![](_page_51_Picture_1.jpeg) 52 (Pages 202 to 205) | 1 | Page 206 | | Page 208 | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Or the shortfallings or | 1 | spoke with him? | | 2 | shortcomings of the Bureau of Prisons. | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Maybe 2016, 2017, | | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 3 | maybe 2016 2015, 2016, 2017 in that area, I | | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Which is a little bit | 4 believe. | | | 5 | different than my from my question is, which is, | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: And what when you're | | 6 | do you think there was somebody on the outside of | 6 | thinking about that last time was that you had | | 7 | prison, so putting aside, what could happen on the | 7 | talked been talking to him a lot, and then you | | 8 | inside on the outside of prison, who would who | 8 | stopped, or was that a one-off time and it was | | 9 | wanted him dead so badly that he would've, or she | 9 | infrequent at that point? | | 10 | would've, you know, caused him to be killed on the | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really wasn't in | | 11 | inside? | 11 | communication. The only communications I had with | | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that's I | 12 | him was in with regards to the civil suits, the | | 13 | don't see that. I think, is it possible? Of course | 13 | civil suit that I found myself in, the defamation | | 14 | it's possible. But I don't know of any reason why, | 14 | suit I found myself in. I needed help, I needed | | 15 | and I don't believe in the blackmail or in any of | 15 | information, and I didn't have what I needed. | | 16 | this, I don't think Epstein had a hit on like that. | 16 | And so that was really what it was that | | 17 | If it is indeed murder, I believe it was an internal | 17 | what drove it, was me trying to get myself out of | | 18 | situation. | 18 | | | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. So you're not you | 19 | this situation, which I ultimately led to where I am today. | | 20 | don't have any reason firsthand knowledge or even | 20 | And so when when all that when | | 21 | speculation, it sounds like, to think that he was | 21 | that I don't remember even if I stopped talking to | | 22 | if that he was killed to kind of silence him or to | 22 | him before that, I think he was I thought he was | | 23 | keep him from going public about people he knew | 23 | angry with me anyway. He didn't like what I did, and | | 24 | about? | 24 | he I wasn't interested in what he had to say to | | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't, no, because I | 25 | me, and | | 2.5 | Page 207 | 2.5 | Page 209 | | 1 | rage 207 | | | | 1 | think that is just must of the store that's hour | 1 | | | 1 | think that is just part of the story that's been | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was | | 2 | created that started back in 2008, '09. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was angry with you about? | | 2
3 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry | | 2
3
4 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being | | 2
3
4
5 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but. | | 2
3
4
5
6 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that | | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything? | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was
definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they
were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was
definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I
was definitely, coordinating is not a good word, | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they
were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he
would've been a very easy target. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't twant to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was
definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I
was definitely, coordinating is not a good word,
because that sounds like I was trying to make | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they
were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he
would've been a very easy target.
TODD BLANCHE: In the time so we've | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't twant to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was
definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I
was definitely, coordinating is not a good word,
because that sounds like I was trying to make
align myself. | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they
were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he
would've been a very easy target.
TODD BLANCHE: In the time so we've
talked about a lot of time, all the way up through | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was
definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I
was definitely, coordinating is not a good word,
because that sounds like I was trying to make
align myself.
That's not where we were going here, but I | | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | created that started back in 2008, '09.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
the point. Like, I don't want I don't think
there's value in talking you know, there's been a
lot of there's a lot of information about what
happened, you know, at the MCC and but what is
important to me is whether, you know, if is the
idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
information on rich and powerful people, that's what
I do you have any reason to believe that that's
true?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
reason to believe that. And I also think it's
ludicrous, because if that I also happen to think
if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they
were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he
would've been a very easy target.
TODD BLANCHE: In the time so we've | 2
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22 | TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
angry with you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
that I had even said that I had referred to her being
a liar. He said I should have not said anything but.
TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
that or anything?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
coordinated in I don't I'm not sure.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't twant to
misspeak. I don't I there was some degree of
communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
that that took place. So definitely I mean, I was
definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I
was definitely, coordinating is not a good word,
because that sounds like I was trying to make
align myself. | ![](_page_52_Picture_1.jpeg) 53 (Pages 206 to 209) I | | Page 210 | Page 2 | | | |----|-------------------------------------------------------|--------|------------------------------------------------------|--| | 1 | That's a hundred percent true. And the degree to | 1 | everything under the sun that we've gone through | | | 2 | which that took place, I'm not I don't recall. | 2 | today. I do think it's important when we all | | | 3 | There was definitely some of that, though. I don't | 3 | evaluate what you've said today, and kind of your | | | 4 | want to mislead you. | 4 | story to understand, to also understand your why | | | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: And we touched on this | 5 | you're here, right? | | | 6 | earlier, but I just want to I don't think we | 6 | So you were indicted, you were charged, | | | 7 | really ran it to ground maybe as much as we could | 7 | you went to trial. And I want to do that in a way | | | 8 | like. Going up through that time, you know, so in | 8 | that gives you an opportunity to say to kind of | | | 9 | the '16, '17, '18, up until the time he's arrested, | 9 | say your piece or to say what you haven't said | | | 10 | | 10 | | | | 11 | had your view or your understanding of what had | 11 | before. | | | | happened changed? | | But also understanding that there was | | | 12 | Meaning did you believe that in the late | 12 | people who took the witness stand and swore to tell | | | 13 | '90s or early 2000s when he started, you know, | 13 | the truth and testified about you, and what you did, | | | 14 | behaving much differently. Did you believe what you | 14 | and what they think you saw and what they heard you | | | 15 | were hearing about him at that point? | 15 | say. | | | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My views, I didn't | 16 | And I'm not I said to Mr. Markus, I'm | | | 17 | like the people he was with anyway. So I don't find | 17 | not trying to create a kind of a she said, she said | | | 18 | how do I say this? I don't like I like people | 18 | situation or he said, she said situation. But I do | | | 19 | who my age or older, and I don't find the society of, | 19 | want to hear from you about your conduct, because | | | 20 | or the companionship of younger people who are young | 20 | it's important, I think, for when we evaluate what | | | 21 | people, I suppose, is really that enjoyable. So I | 21 | you say and how you say it and your recollection of | | | 22 | don't like the company that he chose to be with, and | 22 | things to also to talk about that. | | | 23 | so I just was I find it boring and fundamentally | 23 | So we're going to we'll do that | | | 24 | uninteresting. That's probably the nicest way I can | 24 | tomorrow. I want to talk about, you know, the | | | 25 | say it. | 25 | circumstances leading up to your arrest. There's a | | | | Page 211 | | Page 213 | | | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. So I think | 1 | lot of, I think, misinformation or there's a lot of | | | 2 | what we should do is just spend a few minutes talking | 2 | information out there that I don't know whether | | | 3 | about tomorrow. Everything was great today. I think | 3 | there's misinformation, but about the time from, you | | | 4 | that we it was very helpful and I appreciate you | 4 | know, 2019 up until the time that you were that | | | 5 | trying to be as complete as you can. | 5 | you were arrested. | | | 6 | I think tomorrow you've said a few | 6 | And then, like I said, that'll take us | | | 7 | things today about materials that you brought. When | 7 | through lunch tomorrow and then we'll be done. I'm | | | 8 | we're done, we will give you a few minutes with Mr. | 8 | not I don't have a plan. I didn't know that I was | | | 9 | Markus to if there's things that you want to show | 9 | coming here until this week, okay? So I'm not | | | 10 | him that you think we should see. | 10 | there isn't like a we don't have like a schedule | | | 11 | Like I said, I'm not asking you to | 11 | of what happens next or what happens. | | | 12 | corroborate anything. If I was asking you to | 12 | But the but that's not a negative | | | 13 | corroborate something, I would tell you, but if | 13 | thing. I'm just saying that that's so you | | | 14 | there's something you think that you don't think that | 14 | shouldn't take the lack of a next step as anything | | | 15 | the government has seen or you think that is | 15 | other than, we don't have a next step yet, so. | | | 16 | important for me to see, let Mr. Markus know and he | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: May I say something? | | | 17 | can share it with me. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Of course, yes. | | | 18 | Tomorrow we'll certainly have some | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I just would like to | | | 19 | follow-on questions when we all think about tonight. | 19 | put out there that I also focused on how I think the | | | 20 | And I think you will too. You know, we can all think | 20 | president got swept into some of this unnecessarily, | | | 21 | about stuff we've talked about. We covered a lot of | 21 | by the way. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I | | | 22 | different areas. We are I do want to talk about | 22 | certainly don't subscribe to all the all of | | | 23 | more about you. | 23 | everything that I see. | | | 24 | So by design today we wanted to focus on | 24 | But I do believe that there is animus in | | | | SO DV DESIVIT LODAV WE WATHET IN THEIR OF | | | | | 25 | Mr. Epstein and talk about, you know, kind of, well, | 25 | some areas that may have contributed to how the use | | ![](_page_53_Picture_3.jpeg) 54 (Pages 210 to 213) | | Page 214 | |----|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 1 | of the president to harm him, that I find deeply | | 2 | offensive. And whilst I can't obviously say | | 3 | definitively that that is what it is, I would like to | | 4 | show you what I see so that you can evaluate it and | | 5 | do with that as you see fit if it needs to be | | 6 | addressed. I've seen it, it struck me, and I would | | 7 | | | | like to give it to you. | | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Sure. | | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: For what it's worth. | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that seem | | 12 | something that I can | | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. | | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Of course. I don't | | 15 | like that. | | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. That's fine. | | 17 | That's great. Okay, so why don't we stop for today. | | 18 | I'll give you a little bit of time to chat and then, | | 19 | see you in the morning. | | 20 | SPENCER HORN: This will conclude the | | 21 | recorded proffer interview for Thursday, July 24th. | | 22 | We will continue tomorrow, Friday, July 25th. The | | 23 | time is 3:34. | | 24 | (Interview concluded at 3:34 p.m.) | | 25 | | | | Page 215 | | | | | 1 | CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION | | 2 | I, Cathy M. Ayotte, do hereby certify | | 3 | that the provided audio recording media was | | 5 | transcribed by me or reduced to typewriting under my
supervision, that said transcript is a true | | 6 | transcription of the audio recording; that I am | | 7 | neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any | | 8 | of the parties to the action involved in these | | 9 | proceedings; and, further, that I am not a relative | | 10 | or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by | | 11 | the parties thereto, nor financially or otherwise | | 12 | interested in the outcome of the action. | | 13 | | | 14 | Cathy M. Ayotte
CATHY M. BYOTTE, Official Transcriptionist | | | CATHY M. AYOTTE, Official Transcriptionist | | 15 | | | 16 | | | 17 | | | 18 | | | 19 | | | 20 | | | 21 | | | 22 | | | 23 | | | 24 | | | 25 | | | | | ![](_page_54_Picture_1.jpeg) 55 (Pages 214 to 215) | | | | Fage 1 | |----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------| | | | | | | A | 81:13 | 183:10 184:17 | 12:15 14:19 16:14,18 | | ability | accused | 189:1 194:4 197:13 | 16:25 25:24 26:2 | | 37:17 70:3 191:11 | 22:16 84:22 85:13 | 204:7 | 31:5,15 39:2,6,12 | | able | 86:22 | add | 39:12 45:25 46:4,4 | | 60:17 133:4 180:18 | accusers | 102:7 186:1 | 52:15 53:6,15,15,20 | | above | 96:24 | addition | 95:11,13 118:9 | | 191:15 | Ace | 2:15 | 136:11 139:21 | | Abramson | 15:3,13 16:7 17:7 | address | 151:6 159:10 | | 101:1 | 55:3 56:18 101:3 | 109:25 124:10 | 163:11,14 167:23 | | absolute | achievement | 174:14 185:17 | 168:2,20 182:12 | | 141:13 164:20 | 105:3 | addressed | 186:22 197:17 | | absolutely | Acosta | 214:6 | 207:24 | | 25:16 30:7 41:6 | 193:19 | addresses | afternoon | | 53:25 83:15 89:5,13 | Acosta's | 93:18 175:8 | 71:25 109:12 | | 108:11 114:10 | 170:5 | Adler | afterwards | | | acquaintance | 166:22,22 176:3 | 88:11 | | 124:24 144:12,13 | 74:15 162:10 198:15 | Adler's | again | | 148:6,19 157:2 | Acquaintanceship | 176:1 | 12:2 18:7,22 25:22 | | 160:23 163:17 | 135:16 | administration | 28:6 30:23 62:10 | | 164:7 176:22,24 | acquisition | 198:7,8 | 64:4,24 65:5 68:15 | | abuse | 25:25 | admire | 73:6 90:6,18 91:6 | | 75:3,8 97:16,23 98:8 | | 105:2 | 93:15 100:16 102:4 | | 98:22 | across | | 103:7,13 106:12 | | abused | 167:2 | admitted | | | 74:25 94:16 119:7 | acting | 168:23 | 112:22 114:20 | | 120:13,19 | 1:7 38:4 42:20 | adult | 127:1 138:1 149:4 | | abusing | action | 87:25 88:2,20 97:23 | 149:17 150:11 | | 97:13 | 215:8,12 | 126:6 | 155:9 166:11 | | accent | active | adults | 176:12 177:4 | | 123:8,10,12,14,18 | 125:11 127:17 | 98:7 | 189:19 197:15 | | accept | activities | advance | against | | 83:24 119:4 | 22:12 | 70:11 | 4:9,13,20 5:5,11 | | accepted | actual | advertising | 62:14 124:9 170:24 | | 169:19 | 22:15 23:20 66:16 | 9:22 | age | | access | 87:24 127:17 | affair | 39:21 89:6 93:2 | | 20:10 168:16 180:18 | 140:11 175:21 | 199:10 | 97:15,20 103:11 | | 185:14 | actually | affect | 116:21 120:9,12,18 | | accidents | 15:4 21:4 22:6 31:6 | 70:3 | 210:19 | | 91:11 | 31:20 45:2 49:25 | affected | agency | | accountants | 61:17 79:22 107:19 | 37:9 66:24 191:11 | 13:9,20 127:22,23 | | 74:7 | 112:8 130:1 133:1,8 | affidavit | 189:17,22 190:7 | | accumulated | 134:11 135:18 | 167:25 168:5 | Agent | | 54:18 | 139:1 147:2,24 | afford | 1:9 2:6,20 4:25 6:3 | | accusations | 151:11 156:2,16 | 19:17,18 54:15 | agents | | | 164:20 168:17 | African | 126:10,11,12 | | 88:23 119:17 | 174:20 175:19 | 127:13 | aggressive | | accuse | 181:21,25 182:3 | after | 92:1 115:18 | | | 101.21,20 102.0 | | | | | | | | ![](_page_55_Picture_2.jpeg) | ago | align | altered | 174:14 178:5 | |----------------------|---------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|-------------------------| | 6:15,15,21 15:7 | 209:22 | 115:3,6,8,14,22 | 180:13 185:14,16 | | 20:15 64:5 90:7 | allegation | always | 186:8 189:21,22 | | 163:12 194:17 | 139:6,7,7 | 9:13,17 13:17 17:2 | 193:21 205:3 | | agreement | allegations | 24:9 38:17 51:13 | 206:17 212:8 | | 3:18,22,23 4:5,7 | 73:22 74:23 120:5 | 58:11,11,16 86:15 | Andersson | | 169:16,16 170:10 | 205:15 | 97:19 105:1,4 | 23:20 130:13 | | 188:21 | alleged | 110:22 111:18,19 | Andrew | | Ah | 172:21 173:2 174:4 | 111:20,21,22,23 | 101:9 132:14,17,22 | | 200:7 | allegedly | 112:3 157:25 | 132:23 133:18,24 | | ahead | 139:23 166:25 167:1 | 195:19 | 134:12,16,20,22 | | 3:5 21:15 31:24 41:1 | 172:1 | am | 135:1,13,21 136:1,9 | | 44:20,20 55:8 60:5 | allow | 2:3 40:25 91:9 92:14 | 136:13,18 137:7,10 | | 62:3 65:10 70:12,16 | 186:9 | 98:19 136:21 | 137:23 139:11 | | 71:10 84:12 91:22 | allowed | 155:18 166:11 | 141:14 144:8 | | 100:24,24 125:7 | 15:15 75:18 137:2,4 | 201:13 205:18 | 145:11 148:5,16,20 | | 129:16 133:11 | 170:2 189:7 | 208:19 215:6,9 | 153:24 154:1,3 | | 138:19 144:17,17 | almost | amazing | Andrew's | | 144:19,20 165:6 | 4:6 50:10,17 69:25 | 33:3 158:11 | 136:7 | | air | 70:1 110:24,25 | Amelia | DOJ REDACTION | | 36:3,3 158:14 | alone | 158:6,7 | | | airplanes | 17:10 35:20 106:4,5 | America | | | 198:22 | 106:15 | 8:19,20,23 9:9 10:14 | | | AK-47 | along | 12:21 17:10 123:12 | Andr?s | | 167:16 | 25:13 27:13 120:3 | 160:9 | 200:22,25 201:8,10 | | Alan | 163:23 174:17 | American | 201:14 | | 155:6,8,17 156:15 | 187:15 | 10:20 123:15 | and/or | | 173:19 | already | amount | 170:23 181:12 | | Alberto | 6:3 10:13 12:12 | 28:2,12 47:14 139:11 | 197:11 | | 140:15 | 131:15 190:21 | 202:7 | angry | | alerted | alright | an | 208:23 209:2,3 | | 194:13 | 69:13 | 10:19 13:14,16 16:13 | animals | | Alessi | also | 17:10 33:3 36:2,3 | 27:6 47:5 | | 80:1 185:3,10 | 9:2,10 10:1,2 12:10 | 37:16 39:21,24 52:3 | animus | | Alessi's | 25:3 44:11 49:21 | 66:16 74:15,15 76:6
79:19 85:10 87:25 | 213:24
DOJ REDACTION | | 123:7,9
Alfredo | 60:11,21 73:23
82:10 87:16 91:25 | 88:2,20 95:10 97:23 | DOUTEDAOTION | | 167:12,15,23 168:7 | | 106:8 110:25 111:1 | annoyed | | 171:18,22,23,24 | 93:19 112:12,19
115:4 117:10 126:5 | 111:20,21 112:3 | 135:23 | | 171:18,22,23,24 | 140:20 143:23,24 | 113:19 118:4,14 | annoying | | Alhambra | 140:20 143:23,24 | 123:7,10,15 125:14 | 136:3 | | 140:20 | 162:7,9 170:12,14 | 126:5 134:1 138:17 | another | | Alice | 174:5 176:1 181:23 | 141:3,3,5,6 142:14 | 31:2,19 38:1 79:13 | | 143:8 | 195:4 196:18,20,20 | 143:25 148:3 | 79:16 103:14 | | aliens | 203:4 207:16,17 | 152:11 158:7,7 | 121:13 | | 192:7 | 212:4,11,22 213:19 | 163:24 167:16 | answer | | | | | | ![](_page_56_Picture_2.jpeg) | 14:4 85:17 93:17 | 77:1,19 80:13 182:21 | 86:22 89:3 90:11 | 94:17 | |---------------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------| | 120:22 137:4 152:3 | 183:18 | 91:6 99:5 105:22 | aside | | 152:23 186:9,15 | apart | 107:14 109:12 | 80:3 84:2 86:20 | | 203:3 204:10 | 179:20 183:12 | 111:11 117:9 122:9 | 116:21 136:6 | | answers | apartment | 134:20,23 136:22 | 146:16 206:7 | | 37:16 126:20 193:15 | 12:11 18:5 20:3 | 146:6,19 147:24 | ask | | anticipation | 148:4 | 166:6,20,21 167:5 | 2:3 4:1 7:5,17 8:1 | | 70:9 | apocryphal | 167:23 176:10 | 15:14 16:8 43:2 | | anybody | 29:3,6 | 177:16 179:14 | 71:19 89:13 92:24 | | 7:19 14:20 81:7,7,9 | apologize | 184:15,16 188:4 | 110:6 114:13 120:8 | | 81:13 88:11 93:6 | 124:12 177:5 | 190:14 194:10 | 123:11 124:2 | | 107:22 108:8,10 | appeal | 197:16,21 210:20 | 133:10 137:25 | | 125:11 156:25,25 | 188:12 | 211:22 | 151:18 153:10 | | 173:3 193:17 | appear | area | 177:24 178:11,13 | | 202:22 203:2,5 | 107:5 | 76:20 99:15 113:17 | 189:11,18 194:15 | | 204:23,24 | APPEARANCES | 208:3 | 195:2,4 204:24 | | anyone | 1:4 | areas | 205:13 | | 7:6,16 31:16 47:7 | apply | 54:7 211:22 213:25 | asked | | 89:16 171:8 184:24 | 5:3 125:23 | around | 8:3 14:19 19:7 31:13 | | anything | appreciate | 14:7 22:20,24 42:23 | 31:15 39:11 43:12 | | 3:25 4:3 14:2 17:4 | 57:25 93:16 96:1 | 46:17 47:20 48:17 | 44:6,9 46:7,7 47:1 | | 35:12 37:13 42:2 | 192:19 211:4 | 49:2 65:21 81:7 | 90:16,19 91:18 | | 50:13 53:15 57:4 | approached | 110:1,6 119:2 121:3 | 92:23 93:3 96:21 | | 60:2 63:19 74:8 | 170:21 | 136:6 138:12 | 118:10 124:21 | | 82:5 85:8 89:17 | appropriate | 140:24 143:3 153:6 | 147:1 169:3 171:1 | | 108:9 113:14 | 76:24 78:15 | 156:22 157:11 | 177:22 181:13 | | 125:11 127:25 | approximately | 176:18 177:4 180:7 | 190:3 195:4 | | 141:14 152:5 | 64:5 134:1,6 141:3 | 183:23 189:6 | asking | | 156:21 157:1,8 | 154:6 201:23 | 191:17 196:11 | 2:13 3:16 7:19 8:2 | | 159:1 176:23 178:1 | April | arranged | 14:3 52:6 93:15 | | 187:20 191:7,9,13 | 10:14 166:24 | 26:15 133:22 | 94:1 108:16 152:3 | | 191:15 194:19 | aquatic | arrest | 188:22 194:21 | | 195:18 198:23 | 157:25 | 40:19 52:2,15 93:24 | 200:19 204:22 | | 202:12 203:3,5 | architects | 96:13,17 212:25 | 211:11,12 | | 207:20 209:5,11 | 110:22 | arrested | aspect | | 211:12 213:14 | architectural | 24:15 40:21,23 42:10 | 49:23 128:2 200:16 | | anyway | 140:21 | 53:12 54:1 96:12 | assaults | | 20:9 33:16 44:1,23 | archives | 119:1 207:25 210:9 | 75:17 | | 44:24 57:7 126:19 | 200:18 | 213:5 | assembled | | 131:10,12 133:23 | are | arriving | 177:7 | | 137:5,7 158:17 | 3:9 11:6 13:21 16:21 | 112:16 | assigned | | 184:12 194:5,20 | 30:3 31:21,22 35:6 | article | 4:2 | | 208:23 210:17 | 35:23 42:17,18 | 178:22,24 179:24 | assist | | anyways | 47:15 49:10 53:6 | articles | 66:19 72:23 | | 43:17 | 62:16,16,18 63:4 | 179:4 | assistant | | anywhere | 69:8,19 74:23 79:19 | arts | 2:6 185:14 186:8 | | | | I | I | ![](_page_57_Picture_2.jpeg) | 2:6 185:14 186:8 | 78:18 80:6 121:22 | Barak | 20:6 23:20 27:16,16 | |----------------------|---------------------|----------------------|-----------------------| | Associate | 166:8,11 167:21 | 190:23 195:10 196:2 | 27:22 39:6 40:21 | | 1:7 2:17 | 168:1 176:25 | 196:2 | 64:12 65:25 72:24 | | associated | away | | | | | | Barclays | 85:4,6,6 92:10 | | 50:15 81:24 151:17 | 12:6,14 86:19 | 67:14 | 105:10 115:17 | | assume | awkward | Barings | 130:14 137:19 | | 30:10 76:2 122:12 | 159:1 | 130:4,4 | 151:12 167:21 | | 197:7 | Ayotte | Barr | 168:1 173:13 | | assumed | 215:2,14 | 191:21 192:3,11 | 199:17,18 201:15 | | 97:19 | 3.111 | 193:15,17 | become | | assuming | 2:10 40:6,6,9 | base | 38:25 96:6 | | 97:17 | B | 171:4 | becomes | | astonished | | based | 96:4 167:6,7,13 | | 152:5 | back | 5:9 99:4 110:20 | becoming | | attached | 5:17 7:9 8:7 9:14 | 133:3 197:7 | 105:3 | | 29:17 | 12:16 14:21 17:19 | basically | bed | | attack | 19:6,23,25,25 22:13 | 23:1 40:12 72:5 98:1 | 21:13,19,20 31:1 | | 146:23 | 22:18 24:14,22 | 169:8 172:20 | 113:15 | | attend | 36:12 40:19 46:17 | 175:24 178:6 | bedroom | | 149:3,4,16 150:2 | 49:8 51:6 54:6 | basis | 31:1 76:20 113:19 | | attention | 57:22 58:12 60:10 | 57:23 140:22 157:21 | been | | 51:13 73:21 195:20 | 61:20 67:4 76:9 | 171:9 204:3 | 3:17 4:2 6:24,25 8:24 | | attorney | 77:3 88:16 90:6 | bath | 9:2 10:21 11:1 13:7 | | 1:6,8 2:12,18 156:11 | 96:21 97:12 99:3,14 | 142:14,15 | 13:16 19:7 20:4 | | 187:13 192:10 | 109:7 116:14 117:3 | bathrobe | 23:21 24:20 26:9,21 | | 215:10 | 120:23 121:9,12 | 102:22 157:10 | 28:24 33:16 34:21 | | attorneys | 129:11 132:12 | bathroom | 34:21 38:24 39:8,9 | | 7:14 | 143:15 145:14,18 | 76:19 139:14 142:14 | 39:24 43:19 45:13 | | attractive | 160:3 162:8 168:13 | 142:21,24 143:1,5 | 52:1 53:4,22 57:4 | | 154:20,24 | 170:5 207:2 | bathtub | 71:4 73:19 75:3,15 | | audio | background | 143:24 | 79:16 81:17,22,25 | | 215:3,6 | 13:12 145:12 | Beach | 81:25 84:9 87:10 | | August | backwards | 21:3,5,17 39:17 | 91:24 93:18,19 | | 168:8,14,17 | 10:14 | 42:15 43:10 44:6,12 | 94:15 96:24,25 98:3 | | Australia | bad | 44:13,18 45:3 77:14 | 98:10 104:6 105:20 | | 145:5 | 128:3 131:20 | 78:25 79:3,6,6 | 108:3,5 109:20 | | Australian | badly | 82:14 90:14 105:20 | 119:7 123:12,13 | | 123:17 | 206:9 | 116:18,20 125:20 | 128:10,11 138:25 | | authenticity | Bahamas | 126:3 151:8 161:4 | 148:17 151:17 | | 27:9 | 133:20 | 162:21 174:6 | 154:6,11 157:25 | | avoid | bank | Bear | 164:11 166:4 169:5 | | 85:24 | 16:2 42:2 130:4 | 15:1,1,23 55:4,17,18 | 169:8,10,10 170:12 | | avoiding | banks | 56:16,21 | 175:3 177:5,6 | | 96:16 | 15:2 | Beard | 178:17 182:5,18 | | aware | bar | 1:10 2:20 | 184:12,13 188:19 | | 42:5,7 63:4 75:12 | 176:3,4 | became | 194:25 195:13 | | | | | | | | | | | ![](_page_58_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | - | |---------------------------|-------------------------------|-----------------------------------|---------------------| | 196:12,21 197:13 | 13:16 120:6 188:17 | better | black | | 197:17 202:7 205:3 | 204:3 | 82:24 120:21 122:4 | 63:25 64:9,19 67:5 | | 207:1,5,21 208:7 | believe | 132:11 | 70:19 73:8 164:14 | | before | 7:10,13 13:13 20:11 | between | 166:5 174:12 | | 2:13 3:12,16 8:13 | 22:25 23:18 26:1 | 20:22 28:8 32:14 | 176:19 | | 10:6,8 14:19 16:3 | 32:5 39:9 43:24 | 48:8 50:7 51:5 | Blackhawk | | 42:11 52:1 53:7 | 45:1 52:21 55:5 | 65:14 75:17 87:25 | 201:15 | | 55:21 59:2 71:4 | 62:24,24 73:11,15 | 120:10 146:13 | blackmail | | 83:12,20 85:16,16 | 73:25 78:11 79:14 | 159:2 168:16 174:4 | 73:23 74:10,15,19 | | 97:7,11 127:2 | 84:21 85:4,6 86:16 | beyond | 75:11,19 84:1 87:2 | | 129:20 130:8,9 | 90:25 93:24 94:1,14 | 117:12 138:24 191:9 | 88:16,25 99:16 | | 133:19 134:22 | 94:20,23 95:6 97:12 | DOJ REDACTION | 171:5 172:22 177:1 | | 137:1 138:7 139:19 | 103:18,21,25 104:5 | | 205:15 206:15 | | 152:16 154:8,12 | 104:19 105:16 | big | 207:20 | | 164:3 170:8 208:22 | 106:11 115:8,9,12 | 8:23 25:19 54:2 | blackmailed | | 209:7 212:10 | 117:23 119:14,17 | 104:18 131:11,12 | 73:8 184:19 | | befriended | 119:22 120:16 | 138:1 142:7 149:7 | blackmailing | | 86:25 | 123:8,15 126:6 | 162:9 175:7 | 81:14 | | began | 131:16 133:17,19 | bigger | bless | | 75:25 | 139:8 145:1 146:18 | 138:17 | 203:12 | | begin | 147:5 153:2 157:9 | bill | blew | | 27:20 | 166:16 168:22 | 49:14 181:14 192:11 | 203:20 | | beginning | 170:11 171:18 | 193:15,17 | blinking | | 20:12 23:12 47:15 | 173:23 176:4 190:9 | billion | 6:17 | | 68:21,22 91:21 | 204:2 205:7,9,14 | 57:18,20 61:3,18,19 | blivet | | 104:10 108:4 | 206:15,17 207:10 | 61:20 | 142:17 | | 112:21,23 166:17 | 207:13,16 208:4 | billionaire | BLM | | begins | 210:12,14 213:24 | 58:18,18 72:5 171:5 | 27:4,5 | | 166:17 | believed | binders | block | | behaving | 14:25 32:8 53:22 | 82:11 | 74:19 | | 210:14 | 118:5 | birthday | blown | | behavior | belonged | 69:17,18 140:4,12 | 139:16 | | 111:13 115:14 | 19:10 | 141:1,8,13 147:15 | board | | behind | belongs | 177:7,8,13 178:1,8 | 47:4 111:1 | | 113:18 142:8 143:21 | 167:3 | 178:10 179:22
194:18 | boat | | 170:4 | benefit
84:17,17,18 | | 29:23 112:14 157:20 | | being
2:10 27:23 31:22 | benefits | bit
5:10 8:5 14:7 17:20 | 157:21,21
Basing | | 37:23 45:16 52:11 | 32:21 151:3 | 96:18,19 109:8 | Boeing
113:16 | | 79:4 99:5 101:19 | besides | 132:11 137:5 | bono | | 114:19 131:19 | 154:23 199:25 | 157:12,19 159:1 | 170:13 | | 135:1,9 136:2 137:9 | | 163:13 190:3,16 | book | | 137:10 143:4 148:3 | 12:21 18:11 24:8 | 191:18 206:4 | 69:4,8,17,19 94:21 | | 148:21 153:14 | 26:25 124:16 | 214:18 | 146:22 164:13,14 | | 164:2 182:20 209:4 | 129:24 134:23 | bits | 166:5 171:24 172:2 | | belief | 185:7 | 59:16 | 172:4 173:12,18 | | | | | | ![](_page_59_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | rage 0 | |----------------------|-----------------------|----------------------|------------------------------| | 174:2,4,12,14,20,23 | 168:15 169:23 | brother | 12:16,20 29:12,14 | | 174:23 175:20 | 170:1,6,12,25 171:1 | 142:16 192:21 193:7 | businessman | | 176:19 177:7,13,16 | 171:20 172:18 | 193:13 | 13:21 58:8 73:9 | | 177:21,23 178:12 | 173:8,17 174:9 | brotherly | businessmen | | 179:4,11 180:8 | 176:15 | 193:10 | 190:18 | | 181:4 184:4 185:17 | bragged | brother's | | | 192:3 194:18,20 | 126:22 | 141:2,7 | busy
163:21 197:24 | | boom | bragging | brought | 105.21 197.24 | | 176:7 | 128:10 | 96:23 111:1 122:8 | 80:1 167:12 | | BOP | Brazil | 123:13 165:9 | buy | | 204:17 205:2 | 158:14 | 196:19 211:7 | 12:10 | | borders | break | brownstone | buying | | 159:6 | 38:3,6 40:2,5,6,12,12 | 77:8 | 26:19 | | bore | 102:2 109:7,11 | Brunel | by | | 16:15 | 163:11 165:16,20 | 159:19 | 3:17,23 13:20 20:3 | | bored | 165:22 166:4 | budget | 27:13 30:19 31:22 | | 92:11,12 | 193:25 194:1,3,5,8 | 35:21 | 32:7 39:12 42:17,19 | | boring | 203:11 | budgets | 45:8 52:1 56:19 | | 210:23 | brief | 35:25 36:1,1 | 61:10 85:25 87:2,10 | | Boris | 196:12 | building | 89:18 94:18 109:21 | | 182:2,7,7 | briefcase | 80:23,25 | 117:8 120:19 | | born | 79:4,5,7 | built | 124:17 127:6 | | 29:18 | briefly | 76:13 | 131:16 136:14 | | Boston | 5:24 8:5,20 16:9 | bullshit | 138:11 140:10 | | 156:17,18 | 157:12 198:19 | 128:6,8,21,25 137:11 | 145:15 159:17 | | both | bright | 138:18 144:25 | 169:7 170:19 | | 15:3,13 31:6 61:25 | 118:13 | bunch | 172:20 180:23 | | 68:2,3 82:4 87:11 | bring | 175:5 | 186:20 196:25 | | 90:12 104:24 114:5 | 4:14,20 | burdened | 205:2,5,8 207:9 | | 146:22 161:25 | Britain | 124:16,17 | 211:24 213:21 | | 168:4 | 190:17 | Bureau | 215:4,7,10 | | bothered | British | 204:16,17 206:2 | | | 133:6 | 13:14 123:13,14,17 | burp | С | | bought | 130:20 190:15 | 142:11 | cabana | | 9:11 26:22 36:2 | 196:24 | business | 79:16 | | 157:20,21 158:12 | broad | 10:16,17 13:23 14:6 | call | | 158:12 | 93:17 | 14:22 21:10 28:24 | 17:7 36:4 40:23 | | boyfriend | broadest | 29:6,9 57:1 58:22 | 41:18 45:2,3,7 | | 10:22 97:5,10 150:10 | 67:24 97:16 | 59:22,25 60:8,12,16 | 63:11 79:5 115:6 | | 150:13 169:3 171:2 | broke | 60:20 61:13 62:9,10 | 125:12 149:12 | | 184:19 | 95:11 158:17 159:11 | 63:19 67:20,24 | 166:25 167:22 | | boyfriends | 171:9 | 68:12,14 73:2,7 | 185:5 | | 118:15 | broken | 127:8 163:4,5,13,16 | called | | Brad | 10:20,22 | 163:18 164:5 | 3:17 4:12,21 5:13 | | 146:9 166:24 167:1,6 | Brooklyn | 198:14 | 8:25 9:6 15:13 | | 167:21 168:1,5,9,12 | 69:24 | businesses | 39:11,20,20 51:14 | | | I | | l | ![](_page_60_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | - | |----------------------|------------------------|----------------------|--------------------| | 79:5 91:1 94:18 | 123:10 124:17 | 122:7,9 125:16 | 178:7 | | 96:15 102:13 | 128:2 130:25 131:2 | Carrier | celebration | | 133:21 146:8,9,11 | 132:20 133:2 134:2 | 36:5 | 141:9 | | 158:23,23 163:4,5 | 136:23 137:4,5 | carry | certain | | 164:14 166:24 | 140:7 144:21 145:2 | 173:1 | 19:24 176:20 | | 167:12 168:17 | 148:19,23 152:18 | carte | certainly | | 169:9 170:8 177:19 | 164:20 169:14 | 61:16 | 13:12 14:1 15:23 | | 177:21,24 189:9 | 172:8 177:18 | cartel | 16:3 23:18 32:7,20 | | 192:4 | 189:18 190:23 | 57:9,10,19 | 37:5 51:12 54:2 | | calling | 191:23 193:25 | cartels | 61:25 76:9 88:6 | | 125:10 | 194:3 204:23 | 58:5 | 105:11 106:16 | | calls | 205:19 210:24 | case | 107:16 128:17 | | 50:19 51:9 | 211:5,17,20 214:4 | 4:2,14 5:4,5,5,11 | 130:19,22 134:22 | | came | 214:12 | 6:24 7:1,8 8:15 17:6 | 134:23 149:10,15 | | 10:15 15:4 18:21 | cannot | 25:9 37:9 42:10 | 163:1 171:25 | | 19:20 24:14 26:20 | 4:9,13 95:4 112:24 | 46:22,24 47:6 51:23 | 211:18 213:22 | | 30:1 33:14 34:22 | 180:19 | 81:19 82:6,9 96:25 | certificate | | 48:5 49:15 55:9,9 | can't | 146:21 168:23 | 93:3 215:1 | | 89:16 93:24 94:24 | 5:11 10:15 35:20 | 169:1,21,23 170:8 | certify | | 95:8 96:20 97:1,4,4 | 36:18 43:18 44:2 | 170:17,20,24 172:4 | 215:2 | | 112:12,13 120:5,16 | 54:15 57:3 69:3 | 176:10 187:18 | chalk | | 137:7 157:17 | 71:15,16 72:25 | cases | 135:10 | | 158:20 160:9 172:1 | 95:15 99:6 101:23 | 81:21 | challenging | | 176:10,13 184:4 | 109:4 111:4 114:1,8 | Castro | 27:3 | | 185:5 186:1 192:14 | 133:14 141:17,17 | 201:21 | chance | | 201:7,9 | 142:21,23 148:18 | catch | 5:24 | | camera | 149:24 152:5,12 | 80:4 | change | | 78:11,11,12 79:12,13 | 162:24 163:3,5 | catchall | 20:21 37:20 116:1 | | 79:17 80:4 81:1 | 187:3 201:19 214:2 | 202:6 | changed | | cameras | Capital | categorically | 42:19 115:16 116:9 | | 78:16,17,18 79:7,14 | 71:8 | 14:18 148:19,23 | 129:5 210:11 | | 80:6,13,18,19,21 | car | Cathy | changes | | 81:4 | 38:25 39:8 57:19 | 215:2,14 | 40:14 47:13 | | can | card | cattle | Chapo | | 4:20 5:8 6:16 8:6 | 178:25 | 27:5 | 57:6,8 | | 11:8 12:25,25 13:1 | care | cause | Chapo's | | 16:17 17:14 18:9 | 46:11 48:18,20 87:1 | 75:4 | 57:8 | | 19:17,18 25:5,6,7 | 136:18 140:8 | caused | character | | 25:23 34:8 36:14 | careful | 206:10 | 115:8 | | 38:12 49:2 53:9 | 204:21 | caveat | characterization | | 54:16,19 57:18 68:7 | | 127:1 | 148:24 | | 68:8 69:4 71:1 72:4 | 171:8 | caveats | characterize | | 72:8,10 74:19,22,24 | | 126:1 | 149:13 198:19,20 | | 79:21,25 84:5 85:8 | 77:11
DOJ REDACTION | Cayne | charge | | 87:13 95:4 101:22 | BOUTLEBROTION | 15:3,13 101:3 | 2:6,20 9:7 160:2 | | 101:22 109:24 | | celebrate | charged | | | - | - | - | ![](_page_61_Picture_2.jpeg) | 40:22 51:20 93:18 | 84:18 | 193:11 | 213:9 | |--------------------|-----------------------|----------------------|----------------------| | 119:1 186:23 212:6 | clash | clothed | comments | | chat | 158:25 | 113:24 | 189:1 | | 214:18 | classic | clothes | commercial | | chatted | 136:14,15 | 29:19,19 39:14 97:25 | 80:23,25 | | 3:14 | clean | 98:1 | commissary | | check | 39:14 | clothing | 205:21 | | 38:21 133:6 140:7 | clear | 82:15 | committed | | checked | 30:25 93:5 114:13 | club | 193:23 | | 93:1,2 | 145:6,14 203:4 | 106:1 | common | | cheeses | clearly | clunky | 152:6 | | 135:10 | 126:2,2,5 | 135:15 | communicate | | Chelsea | clever | cognition | 126:10 | | 150:5 | 38:7 | 122:22 | communicating | | chief | cli | colleagues | 135:21 | | 4:14 5:12 182:1 | 56:20 | 194:13 | communication | | 185:8,14 | client | collected | 24:20 208:11 209:17 | | child | 6:9 59:11,13 70:22 | 168:1 174:6 | communications | | 24:10 32:11 125:12 | 72:18 74:12 82:22 | Colombia | 208:11 | | 126:3 157:24 | 88:4 99:21 133:7,8 | 200:22 201:8,12,15 | companies | | children | 164:15,24 | combination | 164:5 | | 32:4 89:3 | clients | 61:25 172:6 | companionship | | choose | 59:6,7,7,8 65:1 66:20 | come | 210:20 | | 175:25 | 69:7 71:13 72:15,18 | 8:23 9:14,20 11:22 | company | | chose | 73:21 83:2 87:1 | 12:16 17:19 22:13 | 8:24,25 9:4 48:15,17 | | 210:22 | 90:1,2 99:18,23,25 | 22:18 28:22 36:12 | 56:9 210:22 | | Churcher | 102:8 167:4 | 44:6 46:17 48:4 | compilation | | 146:9 | client's | 49:8 56:24 58:12 | 174:23 | | CIA | 56:24 60:1 | 60:10 67:3 69:19 | compiled | | 127:22 | Clinton | 75:5 77:3 90:13 | 184:18 | | cigar | 33:11,11 34:11,13,19 | 92:24 99:3 109:7 | complained | | 201:18,19 | 34:22,23 99:18 | 112:11 125:5 129:7 | 203:8 | | Circles | 100:4 103:17,24 | 132:13 136:23 | complaint | | 173:14 | 104:7 150:21 151:1 | 139:22,23 148:16 | 167:18,20 168:3,4 | | circumstances | Clinton's | 167:2 168:13 | complete | | 212:25 | 150:2,5 198:7,7 | 171:15 | 211:5 | | civil | close | comes | completely | | 81:21 82:6 166:20 | 24:25 25:19 31:14 | 57:7 97:24 122:4 | 58:3 110:14 | | 167:13,24 169:4,6 | 39:7 107:16 126:6 | 149:19 174:20 | complex | | 171:15 172:3,4 | 134:19,20,21,24 | 196:17 | 35:11 | | 208:12,13 209:6 | 150:21,23,24 159:3 | comfortable | component | | claimed | 180:14 183:9 | 38:15 136:19 | 49:23 204:8,14 | | 119:7 | 190:19,20 193:1,4 | coming | compromising | | clarify | closed | 57:16 88:16 90:6 | 81:8 82:3 84:1 | | 121:21 | 113:9,17 | 120:12 136:13 | computer | | clarity's | closer | 151.12 166:21 | 83:11 171:25,25 | | | | | | ![](_page_62_Picture_2.jpeg) | 172:5 185:16 | 161:12 | 40:7 109:13 194:10 | 76:3 78:14 83:4 | |---------------------|---------------------|--------------------|---------------------| | computers | consensual | contract | 152:21,22 197:7 | | 33:3 | 98:24 | 67:2 | 203:15,24 | | con | consider | contracts | corroborate | | 47:9 | 80:15,15 | 66:17 | 211:12,13 | | conceivable | conspiracy | contractual | corroborating | | 141:16 149:2 | 213:21 | 66:21 | 120:22 140:6 145:2 | | concerned | constant | contribute | corroboration | | 17:10 104:25 | 111:10 | 177:22 178:13,16 | 165:12 | | conclude | constantly | contributed | corroborative | | 214:20 | 116:24 | 213:25 | 165:9 | | concluded | construction | controlled | could | | 214:24 | 35:14,18,21 110:23 | 172:20 | 5:15 7:17,20 12:13 | | condition | constructions | controller | 33:9 36:4 38:9 39:2 | | 21:24 22:1,2,3,6,9 | 49:15 | 73:5 | 39:2,12 60:7,13,13 | | 118:22 191:7,9,10 | contact | conversation | 62:13,18 64:7 87:15 | | conditioning | 53:21 75:17 88:13 | 3:21 15:6 61:16 | 90:19 104:7 109:18 | | 36:3,3 | 89:9 119:3 189:15 | 104:10 152:14 | 110:21 111:3 | | conduct | 189:21 | conversations | 113:10,17 114:17 | | 22:15 109:21 116:10 | contacted | 62:17 81:12 164:12 | 118:16,17 126:23 | | 212:19 | 52:1 185:21 186:20 | 186:23 192:3,15 | 139:9,10 141:20 | | conference | contacts | 202:22 | 142:15 143:13,15 | | 181:20,21,22 | 43:14 | cool | 144:5,11 146:2 | | confidence | contained | 126:24 128:16 | 148:16,25 174:25 | | 38:11 | 110:25 | | 175:1 185:5,8 | | confident | contains | 34:15 | 186:13 194:25 | | 164:2 | 167:3 | cooperating | 195:7 197:20,20 | | confidential | contaminated | 167:7,7 | 206:7 209:25 210:7 | | 167:8,9,10 | 184:13 | cooperation | couldn't | | confirming | contaminating | 3:22 | 19:24 62:1 116:13 | | 6:18 | 196:21 | coordinate | 128:25 135:9,25 | | confused | contemporaneously | 177:18 209:9 | 142:22 143:18 | | 172:15 173:10 | 25:15 171:21 | coordinated | 159:16 | | congregated | context | 177:20 209:13 | counsel | | 141:8 | 45:21 108:12 118:18 | coordinating | 2:24 3:1,3 215:7,10 | | Congressman | 127:4,12 162:5 | 209:20 | count | | 100:14 | 196:11 | copy | 23:14,15 | | connect | contexts | 3:17 6:10 175:6 | country | | 135:11 | 93:23 | cordial | 19:25 116:19 140:5 | | connection | continue | 105:1 | 141:2 149:1 | | 15:23 16:1,1 | 25:21 30:16 47:6,9 | corner | Couple | | connections | 75:20 109:15 | 79:12 | 1 12:10 115:25 | | 128:15 | 214:22 | Corporate | 162:12 194:14 | | conscientious | continued | 9:1 | course | | 73:20 | 30:18 | correct | 16:17 19:18 88:19 | | conscious | continuing | 24:24 58:8 63:14 | 110:14 129:19 | | | | | | ![](_page_63_Picture_1.jpeg) | 136:16 137:7 | 170:8,9,20 | 74:9,12,14,17 83:1 | deciding | |----------------------------|-----------------------------------------|-------------------------|------------------------------| | 186:14 206:13 | Czechoslovakia | 84:10 85:16,21 90:1 | 42:14 | | 213:17 214:14 | 10:2 | 93:5 97:14 98:14,18 | decline | | court | Czechoslovakian | 123:23 124:1 128:4 | 39:11 | | 169:18 180:19 | 104:24 | 128:9 135:16 | declined | | covered | | 138:14 141:19,22 | 16:20 | | 190:14 211:21 | D | 143:7 144:10,17 | decorate | | covert | dad | 147:18 148:7 | 13:1 21:12 | | 127:19 | 10:2,4,17 12:9 13:19 | 151:14 164:23 | decorated | | crash | 15:4,11 16:4 159:24 | 165:15 188:1,8 | 76:14 143:1 | | 38:25 39:8 | 177:17 | 193:25 194:2 | decorating | | crazy | daily | 203:17 | 18:5 | | 126:18 | 9:12,22 43:1 | day | decorator | | create | Dalton | 23:16 85:12 114:25 | 43:13 49:22 140:16 | | 212:17 | 54:25 55:1,2 191:24 | 115:2 116:22 117:7 | decorators | | created | Dan | 117:8 178:10 189:8 | 43:14 | | 146:14,17,19 171:13 | 101:1 | 189:8 194:6 | deep | | 173:8,11 184:2 | dance | days | 158:16 196:14 | | 207:2 | 176:4 | 116:23 168:19 | deeply | | creating | dangerous | de | 214:1 | | 55:6 168:25 170:16 | 91:10 | 72:24 | defamation | | credentials | dark | dead | 208:13 | | 93:2 | 123:4,9 | 206:9 | defend | | credenza | date | deal | 37:17 84:23 209:25 | | 83:16 | 1:2 2:9 71:5 79:19,22 | 26:22 61:11 62:9 | Defense | | crime | 79:23 101:23 131:2 | 187:14,17 188:4,18 | 127:22 | | 4:25 89:3,4 | 131:3,4,19 133:2,8 | 189:1,2 193:18 | define | | criminal | 134:1,2 | dealer | 76:18,24 85:10 | | 5:5,5 82:8 167:18,20 | dated | 95:12 96:3 | 107:12 | | 168:3,4 | 133:9 | dealing | defining | | critical | dates | 26:23 163:21 | 75:3 | | 49:22 | 95:23 101:17 | death | definitely | | cross | dating | 8:10 12:23 53:15 | 45:10 50:21 82:13 | | 5:8,15 93:22 | 7:8 11:1 18:15,18 | 203:12,14 209:7 | 86:12,13 111:12 | | crossed | 32:23 35:5 38:6 | debacle | 112:21 114:4 153:7 | | 93:7 | 130:12 | 12:18 | 153:7 155:16 | | Cuba | daughter | debates | 209:18,19,20,24 | | 12,16 | 58:17 | 169:17 | 210:3 | | | daughter's | decade-long | definition | | 154:1 | 150:3 | 114:21 | 13:25 | | | David | December | definitively | | 153:24 154:3 | 1:13 2:22,23,23 12:7 | 94:11,25 95:19 | 31:5 214:3 | | curious | 21:25 22:2 28:17 | decently | degree | | 69:15 | | | | | | 33:18 34:11 39:15 | 131:8 | 209:16,17 210:1 | | CVRA
37:9 146:21 169:23 | 39:23 40:3 67:20
69:17 71:17,23 72:2 | decided
110:12 159:4 | deliberately
189:24 190:1 | ![](_page_64_Picture_2.jpeg) | Dominister | d a tanun in a | 52.6 7 20 205.8 | diamating | |--------------------------------|-------------------------------|--------------------------------------|----------------------------| | Dempster | determine
125:10 | 53:6,7,20 205:8 | disgusting
139:17 203:5 | | 137:15 | | Diego | | | denied
116:13 | develop | 1:7 2:16,17,17 145:6
145:11 152:8 | dispute
135:3 147:17 | | | 85:14 111:5,8,8
device | 145:11 152:8 | | | deny
72:24 | 166:1 | difference | disrespected
135:24 | | | devious | 120:10 137:9 | | | Department
1:1 19:21 143:20 | 118:20 | different | distance
40:18 | | | Diana | 5:6,7,14 30:5,6 37:1 | distinct | | deposed
168:8 | | 47:18 90:12 110:14 | 156:14 | | | 131:15,15,20 133:3
Diana's | 114:16 168:3 175:5 | distinction | | deposition | 129:24 | 114:10 108:5 175:5 | | | 168:2,9,11,13,14 | | | 87:22,25 | | depositions
167:23 | didn't | 211:22 | distinguishing
98:7 | | | 5:22 11:10 15:19 | differently
210:14 | | | Deputy | 16:5 18:22 19:13 | | distributor | | 1:6,7,10 2:12,18 | 20:18 21:14 22:5 | difficult | 201:18 | | dereliction | 23:16,19 25:3,12,13 | 112:9 | District | | 204:16 | 30:25 31:1,10,10 | difficulty | 52:14,25 53:2,19 | | Dershowitz | 35:25 37:12,12 | 118:4 | 146:10 172:6,24 | | 155:6,11 156:10,21 | 41:19 42:15 45:17 | diminished | 175:19 186:19 | | 157:5 173:20 | 45:18,20,23,24 46:1 | 49:12 | divorce | | describe | 46:2,2,13,13,13 | dinner | 200:20 | | 55:7 59:14 98:23 | 48:17,20,21,21 | 33:10,14,14,23 34:22 | doctors | | 141:23 192:25 | 50:13,14,14 57:12 | 140:1,2 155:4 | 39:13 | | described | 67:21 74:5 78:1,3 | 199:13 | Docu | | 57:25 136:10 172:10 | 85:1 96:15 98:16 | directly | 131:1 | | describes | 101:6,10 104:8 | 5:3 187:24 195:5 | document | | 94:21 | 106:12 112:4 118:4 | Dirt | 180:16 200:19 | | describing | 118:9,18,21 119:12 | 29:18 | documentable | | 110:16 185:19 | 119:13,14,14,17,23 | disagreement | 131:1 | | description | 119:25,25 120:18 | 56:17 | documented | | 54:4 86:2 142:19 | 121:10,14 122:12 | disclosure | 180:19 | | deserves | 125:15 128:21 | 18:11 | documents | | 84:25 | 129:14 135:5 | discovery | 52:7 171:21 172:8 | | design | 148:18 150:2 | 24:18 81:18 83:6,13 | 176:1 180:15 | | 180:23 211:24 | 159:14 160:19 | 145:15,16 179:5,15 | 209:24 | | designers | 161:9 163:20 164:3 | 179:16,20 180:7,12 | does | | 110:23 | 180:20 187:11,16 | 183:24 209:10 | 4:7 6:19 35:1 37:19 | | desires | 188:24 189:2,4 | discuss | 47:14 50:17,22 59:6 | | 115:22 | 197:3 207:9 208:15 | 85:8 | 59:6,7,8,10 61:9 | | desk | 208:23 210:16 | discussed | 63:2 86:5 98:14 | | 79:10,11 | 213:8 | 87:11 166:5 | 102:15,19 115:22 | | detail | die | discussion | 118:24 121:16 | | 66:23 | 205:5 207:9 | 187:15 | 125:22 173:21 | | details | died | disgraced | 214:11 | | 16:17 51:17 66:15 | 14:19 44:2 52:12 | 166:21 | doesn't | | | I | I | I | ![](_page_65_Picture_2.jpeg) | | المحمد | | | |---------------------|--------------------|----------------------|-------------------| | 5:2 13:17 32:19 | 126:24 | 54:11 130:15 149:6 | 78:4 | | 37:14 48:22 50:18 | drove | 190:4 191:25 210:6 | electricians | | 96:10 118:23 | 208:17 | early | 76:15 | | 123:16 124:24 | drug | 7:9 48:9 59:4 68:19 | Elizabeth | | 140:9 148:7 | 58:5 95:12 96:3 | 68:20 91:5,7 95:3 | 65:11 | | doing | druggie | 99:19 100:7,10 | else | | 2:8 42:18 44:7 59:5 | 96:4,4 | 104:10,11 109:18 | 29:25 34:8 49:18 | | 64:19 76:3,13 78:1 | druggies | 110:16,20 111:15 | 67:6 72:20 75:21 | | 85:13 86:22 93:19 | 96:5 | 111:24 128:17 | 77:1,19 88:4,11 | | 96:23 109:4 115:7 | drugs | 134:9 160:3 210:13 | 94:23 96:9 97:6 | | 126:25 141:14 | 96:10 191:2 | earth | 138:13 170:5 | | 142:20 156:21 | | 123:16 143:16 | 172:25 178:11 | | 202:12 | 23:21 24:5 70:21 | 158:22,23 | 185:10,11,13 | | DOJ | 71:11 | Easily | 193:17,24 195:1,1 | | 169:17 | | 53:10 | 202:22,25 204:24 | | dollars | 70:24 | easy | eludes | | 35:20 57:18,20 61:3 | Dublin | 207:21 | 54:24 | | Dominic | 201:1 | edging | email | | 129:25 | dump | 11:2 | 24:20 51:16 | | Donald | 180:16 | education | emails | | 9:23 173:21 178:24 | duped | 118:14 | 25:7 | | 191:21 | 119:23 | | embarrassed | | done | during | 146:9 166:24 167:1,6 | 119:14 | | 108:9 126:14 156:25 | 13:13 27:15 28:20 | 167:21 168:1,9,12 | embassy | | 164:4 195:1 202:24 | 35:7 42:3,3 46:24 | 168:15 169:23 | 19:9 | | 203:6 211:8 213:7 | 51:3 65:18 100:9 | 170:1,6,12,19,25 | emergency | | door | 103:1 114:21 | 171:1,20 172:18 | 47:6 | | 76:25 80:16 81:2,3 | 166:12 176:16 | 173:8,17 174:9 | employed | | 113:18,18,20 | 186:17 189:6,7,8 | 176:15 | 13:18,20 215:7,10 | | dots | 203:15,23 | Edward's | employee | | 173:14 | duties | 168:5 | 132:11 215:10 | | doubt | 90:23 | effort | encompassing | | 103:5,8 151:23 | duty | 92:1,18 170:22 | 60:7 | | 184:13 | 204:16 | Ehud | encourage | | Doug | | 190:23 195:10 196:8 | 88:3 | | 34:14 | E | either | encouraged | | down | Е | 8:13 20:4 24:17 42:1 | 32:5 87:5 89:7 | | 17:22 57:18 66:15 | 2:1,1 | 44:3,15,24 90:13 | encouraging | | 69:4,22 71:19 | each | 93:13 114:5 125:16 | 87:2 | | 158:15 159:13,14 | 25:25 26:1 27:1,21 | 126:10,25 133:16 | end | | drama | 58:6 147:17,19,25 | 152:6 162:25 164:6 | 31:19 36:15 48:1 | | 12:22 50:14 51:13 | 155:1 160:15 | 170:23 180:1 | 80:1 | | 159:13 | 162:11 195:17 | 187:11 | ended | | drive | Earhart | El | 26:18 33:4 44:5 | | 92:16 93:9 | 158:6,7 | 57:6,8,8 | 47:17,20 65:25 | | dropped | earlier | electrician | 108:14 184:17 | | | I | | | ![](_page_66_Picture_2.jpeg) | ends | 156:10 162:23 | 209:4 | everything | |---------------------|----------------------|---------------------|----------------------| | 46:22 | 167:12,24 169:1,4,6 | event | 6:24 20:7 24:8 25:18 | | enforceable | 170:17 171:24 | 16:21,25 106:8 | 38:13 49:3,10 66:24 | | 188:1 | 172:7 176:10 | 131:11,12,25 133:3 | 73:10 85:9 86:14 | | enforcement | 182:14,18 192:20 | 133:5,19 148:3 | 87:11 94:23 139:3 | | 16:22 41:7,23 52:1 | 193:6 197:14 209:7 | 152:11 | 143:10 157:25 | | 80:4 127:23 186:20 | equity | events | 158:19 159:17 | | engaged | 29:13 | 139:19 162:7,12 | 170:5 171:7 180:20 | | 10:21 95:9 | erection | eventually | 211:3 212:1 213:23 | | engagement | 118:4 | 56:8 90:14 | everywhere | | 95:10 | escaping | ever | 131:7 161:6 | | engaging | 9:18 55:14 | 4:14 5:3,4 7:7,9,10 | evidence | | 11:25 113:23 | especially | 8:13 20:13 23:17 | 76:7 120:22 123:5 | | England | 71:25 88:19,20 139:9 | 30:1 41:8,23 56:10 | 124:9 139:1 140:6 | | 9:9 12:23 27:23 | establish | 74:9,14 81:5,6,11 | 145:3 165:10 167:2 | | 137:10 | 28:23 | 81:25,25 85:21 | 167:13 168:1 169:1 | | English | establishment | 89:11,16,18 93:1,21 | 169:11,12 170:1,16 | | 11:23 31:19 134:19 | 39:17 | 99:3 103:17 104:5 | 170:22 173:13 | | 144:8 162:8 | estate | 105:16,19,20 | 175:20 176:13 | | enjoined | 12:9 26:10,14 | 106:10,17,20 | exact | | 188:6 | European | 107:17 108:7,24 | 79:19 95:23 101:17 | | enjoyable | 9:6,8 159:23 | 109:4 126:9 147:24 | 134:1 | | 210:21 | Eva | 148:22 149:24,25 | exactly | | enjoyed | 23:20,21 24:5,15 | 152:16 153:18,20 | 39:10 112:10 121:21 | | 155:3 | 38:15 43:8 70:24 | 156:20,24,25 157:3 | exaggeration | | enough | 71:11 130:13 | 157:5,8,9,9 160:21 | 180:13 | | 28:19 60:16 193:5 | evaluate | 161:7,8 173:2 | examine | | entertainment | 212:3,20 214:4 | 182:20 183:17 | 5:8,15 | | 149:9 | even | 186:9 188:23 189:6 | example | | entire | 7:11 14:10 15:15,19 | 189:15,20 190:5,5,6 | 103:17 158:7 | | 20:10 60:20 70:2 | 16:8,10 21:18 24:12 | 190:6 191:1 192:10 | excellent | | 89:15 92:14 105:5 | 24:19 37:4 41:17 | 192:14 193:16 | 118:14 | | 170:16 | 45:17,18,24 46:2 | 196:6 197:10 200:3 | except | | entirety | 47:13 52:5,10 63:23 | 201:5,5,6,7 202:17 | 59:23 66:4 | | 94:13 | 63:23 64:25 66:20 | 203:2,5,8,8,8 | exception | | entourage | 76:2,8 78:15 88:2 | every | 5:2 78:21,23,24 | | 111:23 112:4 113:2 | 89:6 96:6 97:23 | 26:9,9 70:2 94:22 | exceptions | | 149:14 | 104:7 112:3 116:20 | 97:3 110:24,24,25 | 4:10,18 | | Eppinger | 119:7,22 125:14 | 114:25 116:22 | excited | | 94:19 | 126:6 127:19 | 117:7 161:6 | 138:24,24 146:5 | | Epstein's | 135:25 138:17 | everybody | 155:5 | | 33:12 45:16 54:12 | 141:12,17 142:24 | 2:3,14 34:2 59:12 | exciting | | 59:22 61:6 72:15,18 | 147:24 157:9 169:6 | 76:4 138:13 174:12 | 158:4,4 | | 90:8 100:9 105:7 | 171:15 172:12 | 178:12 185:12,16 | exhaustive | | 107:10 111:13 | 176:17 185:6 | everyone | 102:10 | | 136:9 155:25 | 206:20 208:21 | 97:1,3 | Exhibit | | | • | | | ![](_page_67_Picture_2.jpeg) | 173:13 174:13 | 4:6 9:23 24:2 25:1 | 65:13 68:10 98:21 | fell | |---------------------------------------|----------------------|------------------------|--------------------| | 175:15,18 | 64:16 74:25 84:3 | 98:23 104:14,25 | 33:1 | | · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · | 140:24 160:9 163:2 | 108:5 109:3 132:17 | fellatio | | existed | | 136:8 143:15 184:5 | | | 83:8,12 | 169:6 | | 94:23 | | existence | failure | 202:6 | felt | | 84:4 164:16 | 205:2 | farmed | 18:17 20:7 43:4,7 | | exists | fair | 173:3
DOJ REDACTION | 67:1 74:4,8 135:24 | | 78:11 82:1 | 114:9 117:14 204:20 | DOJ REDACTION | 135:24 139:17 | | expeditions | 204:24 | | female | | 158:6 | faithful | fashion | 72:5 87:10 | | experience | 116:15 | 160:7,8,8,18 | | | 118:19 | fake | fast | 132:23 133:21 | | experienced | 145:13 146:7 147:2,4 | 118:25 | few | | 204:14 | 147:4,6,23 168:25 | father | 3:13 46:18 84:8 | | explain | 168:25 170:16 | 8:14 9:2,10,13,24 | 95:11 105:11 129:4 | | 8:14 16:9 26:25 | 172:12 176:5 184:8 | 12:14 13:7,12,22 | 163:10 168:19 | | 47:19 120:23 | fall | 14:5,19 15:2 16:10 | 179:13 194:17 | | 143:24 157:18 | 13:24 | 16:18 17:14 19:8 | 199:13 211:2,6,8 | | exploration | falling | 29:11,17 104:20,22 | fianc | | 158:8 | 63:5,10 | 163:13,14 164:4 | 95:10,12 | | explorations | false | 177:13 195:18,20 | Fidel | | 157:22 | 4:21 120:6 153:7 | father's | 201:21 | | exploratory | family | 12:18,22 28:23 164:5 | fights | | 157:22 158:3 | 8:13 12:16,19,20 | favors | 169:16 | | explorers | 14:22 24:11 29:12 | 93:13 | | | 158:16 | 29:15 38:9,17 101:5 | FBI | 97:8,9 | | extent | 128:15 129:8 | 1:9 2:7 4:23 41:13 | file | | 18:8 25:22 26:23 | 130:19,22 132:17 | 76:8 115:9 123:3 | 169:23 170:9 | | 187:19 207:10 | 143:14 146:23 | 126:10,11,12,17 | filed | | exterior | 163:15,18,20 | 143:20 145:4,23 | 37:10 170:18 | | 78:17 | 190:16 195:25 | 166:25 167:18 | filing | | extort | famous | 168:4,17 | 170:19 | | 81:14 | 59:7,11 83:25 102:13 | | finances | | extraordinary | 130:1 145:8 149:17 | 167:25 168:20 | 60:21 | | 105:3 200:17,18 | 164:13 | federal | financial | | extrapolated | famous/politicians | 4:22 42:1 | 42:2 54:12 56:8 | | 96:19 | 100:8 | federally | 146:20 | | extravagances | fancied | 51:20 | financially | | 29:23 | 154:17,21 | feds | 27:25 30:5,6 73:5 | | 27.2J | fancy | 41:10 188:20 | 215:11 | | F | 129:22 | fee | financing | | F | fancying | 57:21 61:12 | 71:8 | | 154:15 | 154:24 | feels | find | | fabulous | far | 19:2,2 | 12:25 46:5 49:24 | | 158:5 | 14:9 36:21 41:25 | feet | 50:1 51:14 57:20 | | fact | | | | | , act | 42:4 51:25 64:13,16 | 114:12,17 142:1 | 72:4,5,10 88:12 | | | | | | ![](_page_68_Picture_2.jpeg) | 90:16,20 92:3,13,14 | 95:13 96:11 172:20 | food | four | |----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------| | 92:18 105:2 112:9 | flat | 102:2 | 68:24 95:13 172:21 | | 112:10 123:10 | 61:12,19 116:9,12 | foot | 200:9 | | 133:1 134:3 170:22 | 132:23 142:21 | 20:3,3 | frame | | 175:14 184:4 185:8 | 148:4 | force | 118:18120:23 | | 210:17,19,23 214:1 | flew | 71:23 | France | | finding | 33:19 113:17 198:22 | foreign | 158:14 | | 112:1 127:2,7 154:23 | 201:15 | 190:14 | Francisco | | fine | flight | Forester | 183:8,9 | | 17:14 22:5 69:14 | 25:6 87:14 146:1 | 72:23 133:7 156:4 | frankly | | 86:18 101:25 | 169:11 | forgive | 86:21 | | 136:17 149:20 | flights | 193:22 | fraud | | 214:13,16 | 30:10 | forgotten | 28:22 73:10,24 74:3 | | finer | floating | 129:18194:14 | fraudulent | | 190:4 | 183:23 | formal | 184:14 | | finish | floor | 13:19 14:1 | free | | 36:14 46:20 138:20 | 29:18 79:11,15 | formally | 20:10 29:9 | | 144:20,21 174:7 | 142:22,22,24 | 2:13 13:18 | | | finished | floors | formed | 49:20,20,21,22 | | 144:14 | 142:4 | 138:11 | frequency | | fire | Florida | former | 109:25 110:17 | | 67:3 137:18 | 40:23 146:11 186:19 | 19:9 22:21 167:12 | frequently | | fired | 187:13 193:18 | 191:24 192:10 | 176:18 | | 56:17 80:1 | flown | 199:3 200:21 | Friday | | firm | 33:13 34:1 | forms | 214:22 | | 56:8 79:23,25 166:21 | fluent | 22:12 | friend | | 166:23 168:19 | 49:20 | fortune | 24:8 33:12,12 74:15 | | 170:15 171:1 176:1 | fly | 19:15 | 111:21 129:24 | | first | 24:21 30:9 | forward | 135:15 151:7 183:9 | | 8:6 26:1 27:7 42:13 | flying | 20:23 118:25 146:12 | 198:14 201:17 | | 45:15 54:10,10,13 | 113:2 116:18,19 | forwards | friendly | | 70:18 90:25 95:7,8 | 182:20 183:18 | 10:14 | 9:24 15:2 56:18 | | 96:23 97:3 110:24 | focus | fought | 65:25 105:13,13 | | 117:15 118:8,10 | 102:4 116:1 120:18 | 189:3 | 107:14 110:8 | | 119:11 123:3 | 159:4 211:24 | found | 134:22 151:12,20 | | 132:20 137:13 | focused | 11:25 16:13 19:6,8 | 162:9,13,15 181:25 | | 140:3 142:14 | 68:16 109:16 120:19 | 19:16 92:10 158:15 | 182:6 193:1,5 | | 146:20 147:8 151:1 | 149:5,18 213:19 | 193:13 208:13,14 | 195:15 198:18 | | 160:10 162:2 | folks | foundation | 199:11,14 | | 163:18 164:23 | 74:18 84:5 88:3 | 54:8 158:9 | friends | | 165:14 169:7 203:3 | 178:6,23 190:17 | founded | 13:4,5 18:4 32:20,21 | | firsthand | 202:9,11 207:10 | 157:16 | 64:9,10,12 68:12 | | 63:12 187:13 206:20 | follow | founder | 89:15 102:13 | | fit | 88:11 | 33:2 | 105:10 107:16 | | 146:1 214:5 | follow-on | foundered | 130:3 134:20,20,21 | | five | 211:19 | 30:20 | 134:23 135:10 | | | | | | ![](_page_69_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | - | |---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|-----------------------| | 137:20 151:9,10 | Gateway | 10:21 47:14,16 84:6 | 4:7 212:8 | | 152:8 162:24 183:7 | 33:3 | 88:19 90:9 113:23 | giving | | 195:24 199:15,17 | gave | 117:7 135:4 157:8 | 30:8 95:25 108:14 | | 199:18.21 201:15 | 13:1 19:25 145:4 | 161:8 183:20 | 125:13 145:23 | | friendship | 181:21,23 | 187:16 190:7 | 203:18 | | 107:11 134:25 | geez | 193:18 | Glenn | | 137:12 182:12 | 119:9 | giant | 24:5 70:21 | | friend-family | general | 11:10 180:16 | go | | 43:5 | 1:6,8 2:12,18 27:1 | gift | 3:5 5:24 9:8,16 18:11 | | front | 30:14 37:24 38:4 | 62:6 | 19:5,25 21:2,11,15 | | 76:25 80:16 81:2,3 | 42:21 90:22 184:22 | Gifts | 22:22 23:13 26:10 | | frozen | 192:10 | 9:1 | 26:13,15 27:23 | | 20:4 | generally | girl | 31:24 40:19 41:1 | | full | 8:7 114:14 126:12 | 11:4 58:12 76:6 | 44:20,20 49:1 54:6 | | 9:14 18:11 30:24 | 152:3 | 94:16 | 55:8 57:20 60:5,8 | | 38:6 75:2 139:16 | generations | girlfriend | 62:3 65:10 70:12,16 | | fun | 143:14 | 8:18 10:19 23:20,24 | 70:16 71:10 73:9 | | 26:14 143:3,7 155:2 | generosity | 31:2,19 58:10 | 84:12 91:22 92:18 | | functioning | 28:3 | 197:23 | 95:20 100:24,24 | | 30:14 | generous | girlfriends | 106:3,13,15,16 | | fund | 38:19,21 | 10:24 31:4 197:14 | 108:25 110:19 | | 28:14,16,16 | genesis | girls | 113:10 120:23 | | fundamentally | 158:20 159:7 164:19 | 39:19 58:11 83:2,3 | 121:9,12 125:6 | | 210:23 | 165:6 | 121:22 167:4 176:4 | 129:11,16 133:11 | | funk | gentleman | 176:9,10 202:14 | 133:17 137:2,4 | | 73:10 | 107:23 | DOJ REDACTION | 138:19 139:6 | | funky | Geo | | 140:18 144:15,17 | | 92:20 | 158:10 159:16 | | 144:17,19,19,19,19 | | funny | Geographic | | 144:20 145:24 | | 70:17 | 158:3 | | 161:3,4 162:7,11 | | further | | give | 163:10 165:6 | | 123:21 215:9 | 199:4,6 200:3 | 12:7 13:25 32:17 | God | | future | Georgina | 52:6 57:5,22 62:6 | 57:6 | | 5:5 | 162:8 | 65:4,6 75:6,21 | God's | | | get | 97:24 101:23 | 143:16 | | G | 32:4 69:4 82:10 | 108:25,25 112:19 | goes | | game | 85:17,18 89:8 96:17 | 120:12,16 131:2 | 8:4,7 10:25 46:22,24 | | 98:13 | 97:25 102:2 113:10 | 136:10 158:18 | 47:3 57:12 167:17 | | garage | 114:23,25 115:1,15 | 204:24 211:8 214:7 | 169:18 205:23 | | 80:16 | 117:13 125:6 | 214:18 | going | | Garden | 127:14 150:18 | given | 2:3,14 3:15 10:13 | | 11:8 | 165:12 188:9 189:2 | 3:17 35:21 38:12 | 16:15 17:4 18:15 | | gate | 208:17 209:24 | 43:2 76:22 81:25 | 22:14 24:21 25:18 | | 80:16 | gets | 84:14 115:24 | 27:8,10,23 31:11,17 | | Gates | 50:6 166:25 | 193:15 205:5 | 31:18 32:8 36:11 | | 181:14,20 182:9 | getting | gives | 39:18,24 40:4 43:10 | | | | | | ![](_page_70_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | - | |---------------------|-------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|----------------------------------| | 44:11 46:8 47:2 | 6.6 10.22 24 24.5 7 | Gulfstream | 45:8 52:16 53:15 | | 49:1,19 51:14 69:19 | 6:6 10:23,24 24:5,7
27:20 45:2,3 54:14 | 113:13 114:5 | 58:24 62:11,16,19 | | 71:5,5 75:21 76:4,4 | 57:8,11 71:4 76:12 | guns | 62:25 63:7 86:14 | | 97:11,25 98:9,12 | 81:18 83:6,12 91:18 | 167:17 | 89:17 91:5 94:24 | | 99:12,12,14 106:2 | 92:11,21 96:12 | | 95:3,6 131:25 136:5 | | 110:22 113:4 | 137:8,17 139:13 | guy
10:24 15:14 34:14 | 136:8 141:20 144:6 | | 117:12 122:10 | 157:8,17 159:15 | | 144:11 148:25 | | 125:4 131:21 132:9 | 160:10 161:9 | 128:19,20 183:3 | 156:5 169:17 | | 123:4 131:21 132:9 | 163:23 173:18 | guys
6:11 11:3 24:13 | 193:24 195:8,8 | | 132:23 130:21,22 | 174:10 176:7 | 33:19 42:8 146:6 | 195:24 195:8,8 | | 143:10 153:15 | 188:17,19,25 | 161:24 | 210:11 | | 156:17 160:7 | 203:19 213:20 | gymnast | happening | | 165:22 168:13 | gotten | 196:25 197:4,6 | 7:24 37:13 42:11 | | 169:3,13 177:5,15 | 45:6 | 190.25 197.4,0 | 60:18 159:15,17 | | 189:11 194:7,15 | | Н | 187:17 | | 200:18 204:1 | government
4:8 6:23 7:7,15 42:1 | habit | | | 205:21 206:23 | 211:15 | 98:10,13 | happens
18:6 32:14 36:21 | | 209:23 210:8 | | hadn't | 45:14 46:5 91:23 | | 212:23 | governor
26:21 | 83:22 169:8 | 213:11,11 | | Golden | | hair | ' | | 39:19 | governs
3:20 | 123:4,9 | happy
11:5 47:19 70:14 | | Goldsmith | | half | 118:21 138:23 | | 101:1 | great | 6:14,21 141:4,5,6 | 169:22 178:9 188:4 | | | 57:4 69:12 160:11 | 185:7 | | | golf | 211:3 214:17 | hand | hard | | 44:12 | 142.16 | 151:5 | 35:9,10 38:18 189:4 | | gone | 143:16 | handful | 196:21 | | 35:22 42:25 133:20 | Greenberg | 198:17 | harm | | 187:10 212:1 | 15:3,14 | handle | 214:1
Harvard | | good | gross | 60:21 | | | 2:5 3:8,10,12 39:25 | 137:17 | hands | 100:20 | | 43:15 55:5 64:9,12 | grotesque | 16:24 168:20 | Harvey | | 69:23 71:17 73:20 | 77:2 | handwriting | 161:16 162:3,7,13,22 | | 75:24 84:1 91:16 | ground | 145:23 | 163:3,9 | | 103:23 109:12 | 79:11,14 210:7 | handwritten | has | | 113:12 124:4 | grounds | 168:10 | 6:3 7:9 17:2 47:9 | | 135:14 137:19 | 16:20 | hang | 63:8 72:25 75:3 | | 151:6,9,10 163:7 | guess | 56:12 100:20 | 84:9 85:10 115:9 | | 186:2 187:17,18 | 6:20 13:23 28:9 | | 138:13 166:4,17,18 | | 188:17,25 189:2 | 33:14 58:11 90:13 | happen
32:8 57:12 142:17,22 | 167:2 171:22 | | 193:18 194:4 | 91:25 96:18 110:10 | 148:18 206:7 | 173:14 174:9 | | 209:20 | 153:9 161:22 | 207:17 | 175:22,22,22,23 | | gorgeous | 172:17 | | 184:13 185:16 | | 142:9 | guest | happened | 189:20 196:20 | | gosh | 139:15 | 12:4 15:10 16:12,14
16:18 25:11 26:17 | 211:15 | | 55:6 | guests | 37:8 38:13 40:20 | hate | | got | 110:10 149:9 | 57.0 50:15 40:20 | 205:16 | | | | | | ![](_page_71_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | Page Io | |----------------------|---------------------|----------------------|----------------------| | haven't | 201:13,14 | 98:23 139:5 144:3 | himself | | | hello | 145:10 146:7 | 24:1 56:6,25 106:16 | | 190:14,21 212:9 | 136:23 | 165:16 209:23 | 134:12 168:21 | | | help | 212:5 213:9 | 177:20 178:13 | | 9:21 22:7,10 30:24 | 9:21 12:11,16,25 | hereby | 195:4 | | 32:18 79:3 81:13,13 | 14:4 27:4 37:14,16 | 215:2 | hire | | 83:24 94:15 98:16 | 42:19 73:1,2,2 | here's | 78:3 | | 102:16 116:9 | 96:16 177:18 | 58:9 135:6 | hired | | 117:25 118:4 | 208:14 209:24 | herself | 54:23 55:4 | | | helped | 96:22 122:7 | Hispanic | | 167:5,16 198:19 | 30:14 72:23 73:4 | hesitant | 123:19 | | 202:22 204:14 | 123:6 127:3 | 148:14 | | | | | | historical | | | helpful | hey | 151:3 | | 23:14 28:11 57:17 | 18:1 54:6,8 59:14 | 5:16 76:12 88:8 | hit | | 80:11 156:8 190:23 | 84:8 121:17 124:13 | 188:4 | 12:19 28:10 205:21 | | headmaster | 139:5 209:19 211:4 | he'd | 206:16 | | | helping | 9:10 44:9 131:15 | hits | | health | 12:25 | 170:7 | 95:17 | | | Henry | he's | Hoffenberg | | hear | 100:19 102:17 | 11:1,1 17:14,16 30:8 | 63:16 | | 60:13 81:11 108:7 | 200:19 | 30:9 40:22 43:10 | Hoffman | | | her | 49:1 51:19 57:9,11 | 182:24 183:15,18 | | 142:12 156:24 | 24:8,10,10 25:1 | 84:22 85:13 99:5 | hold | | 193:16 212:19 | 31:15 39:3,10,12,13 | 116:18,19 119:1 | 140:9 | | heard | 39:13,14 65:25 | 137:18 144:8,9 | holding | | 2:19 8:12 16:2 56:10 | 71:15 72:9,10,13 | 210:9 | 95:22 133:25 145:12 | | 61:9,22 62:1 74:7 | 73:4,5,5 94:16,19 | hi | 200:19 | | 89:13,14 164:9 | 94:21,21,24 95:4,10 | 137:8 148:17 | hole | | 170:7 171:14 177:1 | 95:11 96:9,11,13,16 | hidden | 17:23 158:10 | | 187:20 192:5 | 96:17,21,24 97:5,6 | 170:18 | home | | 193:20 203:7 | 97:7,9,11 117:17,25 | hide | 27:23,23 39:21 76:20 | | 212:14 | 120:14 121:25 | 188:16 | 92:23 141:7 142:8,8 | | hearing | 122:4,8,8,9,25 | hideous | homes | | 210:15 | 123:1,3,21,22 125:5 | 17:5 | 66:18 | | heart | 125:6 126:3,4,4,7 | high | hometown | | 21:24 22:1,2,3,9 | 129:24 131:15 | 18:9 25:22 75:5 | 131:9 | | 191:4,7,9,10 | 140:9,12 141:8 | 129:23 130:20,22 | honest | | Heather | 142:19 144:14 | 190:16 | 26:14 42:6 43:8 | | 196:25 199:12,12,16 | 145:22,24 146:22 | Highbridge | 136:3 137:21 | | 199:16,19,20 | 148:21,23,24 | 71:8,9 | 153:14 | | 200:10 | 163:25 170:21 | highlighted | honestly | | heavily | 176:7 188:2 199:13 | 87:14 | 15:7 52:11 137:17 | | 71:7 | 199:15,16 209:4 | highlights | 178:20 | | | here | 12:7,8 | Hong | | 167:24 | 2:4,21 4:23,23 6:7 | | 33:24 | | helicopter | 58:13 84:23 87:24 | 31:15 | hopefully | | | | | | ![](_page_72_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | rage 15 | |-----------------------------------------|---------------------|----------------------|-----------------------------------------| | 77:4 | 185:5 186:11 | 148:21 | immediately | | hoping | houseman | hundred | 203:6 | | 209:19 | 45:13 | 43:18 60:23 143:5 | immunity | | Horn | houses | 164:8 210:1 | 4:12 | | 1:9 2:5,6,20 4:25 6:3 | 21:3,17 35:14 76:14 | hung | important | | 6:16 40:4,7 109:12 | 76:15 77:5 162:23 | 133:20 135:19 | 3:21 4:4,4,6 11:3,4 | | 165:21,24 194:7,10 | 182:10 | 199:12 | 59:13 90:12 99:14 | | 214:20 | how | hurt | 126:1 141:12 207:8 | | horrible | 3:9 10:5 11:12 12:1 | 159:15,17 | 211:16 212:2,20 | | 16:16 | 12:13 13:25 14:15 | husband | Impossible | | horse | 18:15,21 26:17,25 | 70:24 73:5 129:25 | 139:2 | | 142:6 | 28:17 30:13,17 | 199:15,16 | impress | | horses | 34:17 38:14 42:9,9 | hypothetical | 128:18 | | 27:7 | 44:23 47:15,19,22 | 58:1,3 | improper | | | 48:12 51:22 54:13 | 56.1,5 | 202:13 | | hospital
31:14 | 54:18,18 58:9,21 | Ι | improve | | host | 59:8 61:13 63:7,25 | icky | 111:2,3 | | 149:6 | 64:11 65:1,22,24 | 74:8 | - | | | 66:24,25 75:24 81:5 | idea | improvements
110:21 | | hosting
149:7 | 82:12 92:1 96:4 | 42:6 73:4 88:25 | | | hotel | 97:6 105:9,10 111:2 | 97:18 103:3 135:2 | improvising
59:17 | | 27:2 | 112:12 114:20,22 | 141:14 151:22 | | | | 123:21 124:9 | 157:17 177:17 | inappropriate | | hour | 129:22 132:10,25 | 207:9 | 76:5,17,19,23 88:12 | | 39:24 141:3,3,5,6
hours | 129:22 132:10,23 | ideas | 89:8,17 107:21,22
108:9 156:21 157:1 | | 112:15 115:25 | 145:24 149:14 | 13:23 110:14 | inaudible | | 163:12 | 150:17,22 152:7,17 | identify | 67:8 132:2 | | house | 155:18 159:6,21 | 72:9 123:22 | | | 9:11 12:25 13:1 18:5 | 161:15,21,22 | Ignore | inception
7:8 164:21 | | 18:5 19:6,16,20,21 | 169:14 179:12 | 117:4 | include | | , , , , | 183:6 184:1,17 | illegal | 185:22 | | 20:2,9,10,13 21:3,4 | 186:3,3 192:23,25 | 203:5 | included | | 21:5,9,12 22:21
31:12 37:5 39:14 | 193:6 195:14 198:9 | illustrated | 129:24 169:11 188:7 | | 42:15 43:11 44:8 | 195.0 195.14 198.9 | 61:17 | includes | | 45:4 75:6 76:16,25 | 200:24 201:16 | illustrative | 7:11 173:19 | | 79:11 81:4 83:15 | 210:18 212:21 | 124:21 | including | | 89:23 92:24 94:25 | 213:19.25 | image | 125:16 178:23 190:8 | | | however | 143:11 145:9 | | | 97:4 107:18 116:22
123:4,7 125:13,18 | 4:6 5:12 85:3,10 | imagine | 202:8 | | , , , , | 107:11 125:9 | 59:14,15 99:6 116:13 | incorrect | | 133:13,13 137:3,18 | 133:19 142:5 | 135:9,25 152:5 | 152:23 | | 139:7,14,16 140:19 | | 161:13 163:2 | increase | | 141:2,15,25 142:7
143:7 148:16 | huge
72:10 143:2 | imagined | 47:14 | | | 72:10 143:2
Huh | 177:2 | increased | | 149:11 151:2,12 | 116:25 | imagining | 25:25 48:7 | | 156:17,18 161:4
174:6 182:14 185:3 | human | 115:21 | indeed
7:10 206:17 | | 1/4:0 102:14 105:5 | numan | 110.01 | 7.10 200:17 | | | | | | ![](_page_73_Picture_2.jpeg) | indicted | instances | 113:15 139:15 | 77:11 80:6 110:8,9 | |---------------------|----------------------|--------------------|----------------------| | 7:12 212:6 | 177:21 | 156:8 168:20 | 110:13,18,21 111:3 | | indictment | instructor | 171:23 172:3,4,5 | 111:9 113:3 140:16 | | 52:4 | 111:20 | 184:23 188:9 | 156:16 157:5 161:1 | | indirectly | intelli | 189:12 213:20 | 162:21 182:21 | | 33:8,15 | 13:14 | introduce | 198:23 199:2,25 | | indiscernible | intelligence | 132:21,22 135:9 | 200:3 201:7 | | 15:15 46:12 69:6 | 13:9,12,15,16 126:11 | introduced | isn't | | 82:11 100:20 | 127:22,23 189:17 | 3:14 58:21 90:25 | 3:22 153:15 213:10 | | individual | 189:22 190:7 | 91:17 135:8 151:11 | Israel | | 38:1 110:25 111:21 | intelligent | invest | 195:18,19,20,21 | | 189:21 | 57:3 | 61:4 | Israeli | | individuals | intensity | investigated | 189:17,22 | | 64:24 75:13 87:24 | 12:21 | 45:16 | issue | | 100:9 102:4,14 | interact | investigation | 12:4 56:16 88:16 | | 176:20 178:15 | 87:3 | 41:5 170:15 186:18 | 89:10 99:13,16 | | 181:13 202:24 | interacted | 186:18,24 205:4 | 148:15,15 | | inefficiencies | 121:12 | Investigations | issues | | 204:15 | interacting | 40:24 | 9:22 90:12 122:22 | | informant | 116:24 | investment | Italy | | 167:10,10 | intercourse | 60:21 61:5 | 200:4,6 | | information | 22:5,7,10 | invite | its | | 37:11 138:12 153:3 | interest | 8:3 | 39:18 94:13,22 | | 185:14 202:8 207:6 | 52:20 53:23 85:10 | invited | 157:21 164:20 | | 207:12 208:15 | interested | 11:21 133:17 149:9 | itself | | 209:25 213:2 | 52:11 164:21 195:19 | 150:19 178:7 | 118:23 142:21 | | infrequent | 208:24 215:12 | involve | 169:25 173:4 185:3 | | 208:9 | interesting | 58:5 | it'd | | initially | 14:20 16:11 | involved | 35:8 185:10 | | 23:25 | internal | 28:24 29:8 68:17 | it'll | | injuries | 81:2,2 206:17 | 71:7 73:24 163:15 | 72:11 | | 91:9 | international | 173:19 215:8 | Ivana | | insane | 190:18 | involvement | 10:1 | | 137:11 | interpreted | 195:12 | I'd | | inside | 127:15 | IRA | 8:20,23 10:21 11:5 | | 73:6 78:12,19 80:22 | interrupted | 16:13 | 14:20,24 16:2 33:16 | | 81:4 206:8,11 | 30:13 | Iranian | 110:23 123:20 | | insistent | interview | 19:9 22:21,22 | 152:15,16 165:8 | | 92:10 | 1:1 2:10 40:8 109:13 | Iranians | 1'11 | | installed | 193:22 214:21,24 | 19:10 | 8:14 29:3 47:5 56:24 | | 79:7 | interviewed | Iraqis | 57:5,5 59:17 60:10 | | installing | 121:3 | 19:10 | 76:18 84:11 85:9 | | 80:4 | into | irritating | 110:6 132:24 133:4 | | instance | 9:16 14:21 20:2 28:9 | 193:13 | 139:3 153:17 188:7 | | 38:20 58:18 60:7 | 29:21 43:4 85:17,18 | island | 214:18 | | 107:18 | 95:8 99:16 106:1 | 35:20 36:4,8 49:16 | I've | ![](_page_74_Picture_2.jpeg) | 3:15 6:2 7:18 10:23 | 35:15 136:22 | 12:25 35:10 123:6 | 205:2,15,24 206:22 | |-----------------------|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------| | 10:24 16:11 29:1 | jobs | 169:4 186:10 | 211:25 212:3,8,17 | | 57:4 76:12 83:19 | 9:3 | 206:23 207:11 | kinds | | 84:14 91:12 96:14 | Joe | keeping | 119:2 202:8 | | 105:4 109:2 118:14 | 100:25 101:1 | 28:8 | Kings | | 123:11,12,13 133:5 | John | Kennedy | 26:21 | | 139:1,2 152:10,10 | 80:1 112:7 123:7,9 | 154:16 | Klein | | 157:25 166:12 | 154:15 185:3,10 | Kenny | 72:10 | | 171:16 175:23 | 101110100.0,10 | 101:1 | knew | | 189:2 192:5 196:18 | 65:11,12,12,14 66:12 | kept | 8:14 10:4,5 11:18 | | 203:19 214:6 | 67:6 | 7:19 27:22 79:7 | 15:2,22,24 16:3,8 | | | John's | 185:4 | 31:5,10,16 32:7 | | J | 123:20 | Kerry | 42:14 45:8 58:25 | | J | journal | 153:24,25 | 81:15 120:5 129:22 | | 56:9 | 168:10 | Kerry's | 137:13 155:1,13,18 | | jail | journalist | 153:24,25 | 160:15 164:14 | | 47:2 48:5,5 49:2 50:7 | 130:1,2 146:5,8 | ketchup | 181:25 192:14 | | 166:20 168:22 | journey | 11:11 | 204:5,5 206:23 | | 189:10 207:19 | 104:3 | key | knowing | | James | JP | 20:9 | 120:11,11,13 171:16 | | 109:22 | 71:9 | keys | knowledge | | Jane | Jr | 137:2 | 13:10 14:2 52:10 | | 126:2 | 153:18,20 154:16 | kick | 60:17 63:12 108:17 | | January | Judge | 171:2 | 157:10 171:3 204:4 | | 145:19,25 | 4:1 | kicker | 206:20 | | Jason | judges | 142:25 | known | | 34:14 | 4:2 | kickers | 16:4 43:3 126:15 | | Jean-Luc | Julian | 142:25 | 128:9 130:2 151:7 | | 159:18 160:12,20 | 126:1 | kidnap | knows | | 161:13 | July | 16:13 | 98:20 | | Jeffrey | 1:2 2:9 5:17 40:9 | kill | Kong | | 35:9 58:21,21 134:13 | 109:14 166:1 168:8 | 205:17,19,20 | 33:24 | | 135:1,6 136:2,12 | 168:9,16 194:8,12 | killed | 00.21 | | 192:24 193:6 | 214:21,22 | 205:10 206:10,22 | L | | Jerry | jumping | kind | la | | 100:25 | 14:7 157:11 177:4 | 13:17 18:9,16 25:19 | 61:16 | | Jes | 191:17 | 32:1 42:20 45:15 | lack | | 67:10,11 | June | 54:8 58:5 62:16 | 125:22 213:14 | | jewel | 95:15 | 63:11 64:18 78:17 | lady | | 142:6,8 | Justice | 90:8 99:14 102:12 | 69:3 123:6 163:25 | | JFK | 1:1 143:20 | 105:1 115:25 124:9 | laid | | 153:18,20 | | 127:15 129:4 135:4 | 44:8 | | Jimmy | K | 138:8 144:4 148:3 | lameness | | 15:3,13 16:8 17:7 | keen | 161:23 166:8 | 91:11 | | 56:19 101:3 | 7:6,16 | 174:17 183:12 | land | | job | keep | 186:3 204:3,25 | 27:4 158:21 159:3 | | | | , | l | ![](_page_75_Picture_2.jpeg) | largest | 1:14 2:25,25 28:14 | letter | 60:9 | |---------------------------------|--------------------------------|----------------------|-------------------------------------| | 72:9 | 54:25 97:8 134:16 | 29:5 178:25 179:22 | line | | last | 139:24 141:5,23 | 179:25 194:22 | 20:7 85:17,19 | | 107:25 194:5 207:25 | 142:3 143:23 | letters | line's | | 208:6 | 165:13 167:8 | 178:16 179:5 181:8 | 31:19 | | lasted | 197:25 | let's | linked | | 96:11 | learn | 22:13 40:19 54:3 | 176:20 | | late | 42:10 51:22 54:17 | 57:2,6 61:3,16 | Lipper | | 25:21 28:8 32:7 | 160:15 | 62:11 76:2,17 85:17 | 101:1 | | 87:18 91:2 111:12 | learned | 90:5 95:13,14 | list | | 111:24 112:22,24 | 56:2,13 63:22 118:24 | 100:12 116:1 | 16:13 164:13,15,15 | | 115:9 116:2 117:8 | least | 119:20 121:2,3 | 164:17,18,24,24 | | 182:12 190:25 | 56:19 60:17 166:12 | 125:12 132:21 | 166:5,11 167:3,11 | | 210:12 | leave | 138:2 142:10 | 167:21,22 168:16 | | later | 189:7 | 143:11,12 163:10 | 168:20 169:11 | | 15:12 84:11 86:3 | leaves | 165:20 176:12 | 170:21 171:12,14 | | 91:7 102:7 120:4 | 186:2 | 187:4 | 171:17,19 172:6,10 | | 130:16 149:15 | leaving | level | 172:11,22 173:4,7,8 | | 160:15 195:14,22 | 124:25 | 18:9 25:22 73:24 | 173:12 174:9,11,12 | | latter | led | Levine | 174:18,25 175:24 | | 185:23 | 208:18 | 151:8,13,15 | 175:24 176:19,19 | | laughs | left | liar | 176:25 183:23 | | 54:15 | 44:22 96:21 135:24 | 209:5 | 184:1,1,24,25 | | launching | 139:16,17 141:9 | license | 185:20,20 186:3 | | 9:5,7 | 163:19 | 96:18 | 205:16 | | laundering | legal | lie | listen | | 57:8 | 51:12 188:11 | 4:20,24 118:16 | 18:10 47:2 197:21 | | law | legitimate | 142:21 | lit | | 16:21 41:7,22 52:1 | 92:19 | life | 137:12 | | 80:3 127:23 166:21 | lend | 16:12,24 20:6 23:1 | literally | | 166:23 186:20 | 118:23 | 24:12 30:3 38:13 | 147:4,6 162:25 | | Lawson | Lennox | 42:3 54:5 59:4 66:2 | little | | 129:25 | 31:15 | 66:25 68:17 100:9 | 5:10 8:5 14:7 17:20 | | lawyer | (2.25 (4.1.2.7.0.11 | 102:14 109:19 | 28:9 99:12 109:8,21 | | 3:17 5:6,13 6:11 | 63:25 64:1,2,7,9,11 | 118:13,19 | 142:5,7,9,11 157:11 | | 146:9 155:25 | 70:19 | life-restricting | 157:18 163:13
164:2 173:10 190:3 | | 166:23 170:2,13,13 | Les | 16:21 | 190:16 191:18 | | lawyers
8:4 52:9,13,20 53:22 | 59:12,16 60:6,11
62:12 63:8 | light
6:16 | 206:4 214:18 | | 74:6 172:23 209:9 | less | liked | live | | 209:10 | 176:18 | 9:25 10:1 22:12 39:6 | 28:3,3,17,18,19 96:5 | | lead | let | 92:11,22,22,25 95:4 | lived | | 169:20,21 | 37:15 38:20 69:7 | 104:22,23 105:4 | 20:11 39:16 66:25 | | leading | 74:2 117:3 120:8 | 128:14,15 137:18 | 129:21 | | 212:25 | 124:1 143:23 | 152:18 | lives | | Leah | 159:16 211:16 | Limited | 66:2 | | | 107.10 #11.10 | | | ![](_page_76_Picture_2.jpeg) | living | 19:8 39:12 69:15 | м | man | |----------------------|---------------------|----------------------|-----------------------| | 51:2 95:10 | 71:13 79:19 100:21 | M | 85:3,3,5,5,6 94:18,22 | | local | 111:5,9 116:14 | 215:2,14 | 112:8 141:17 | | 95:12 96:3 112:1,7 | 134:5 160:8 175:15 | made | manage | | locally | 175:18 | 49:16 70:10 110:21 | 36:1 47:4 49:2,9 50:4 | | 112:5 | looks | 115:15 120:14 | managed | | locations | 142:17 | 127:12 135:1 170:6 | 35:25 59:16 66:25 | | 78:19 157:6 | lost | 174:25 187:13 | 169:24 | | lock | 12:19 20:4 26:18 | 191:16 | management | | 205:22 | 44:1 | Madison | 35:17 | | logistically | lot | 11:7 | manager | | 144:5 | 5:22 12:3 16:19 | Madrigal | 27:1 30:14 36:4 | | logs | 20:25 22:5,7,15 | 1:15 3:2,3 | 37:24 38:4 42:21 | | 25:6 146:2 169:12 | 25:2 29:12 43:14 | magazine | 90:22 184:22 | | 174:5 | 73:21 74:23 84:14 | 9:8 160:6,7 | managing | | London | 84:21 88:22 91:9,10 | maid | 37:23 65:25 | | 129:21 131:6,8 | 96:5 113:17 137:18 | 123:6 | Manhattan | | 137:20 139:8,9,14 | 140:7 164:11 | maids | 152:11 | | 140:13,25 141:3,7 | 177:19 180:15 | 66:18 | manipulative | | 146:2 148:5 | 185:22 190:12 | main | 118:20 | | London's | 194:20 205:3 207:6 | 181:22 | | | 131:9 | 207:6,23 208:7 | maintain | 196:25 | | long | 211:21 213:1,1 | 27:5 38:18 186:10 | manners | | 10:21 19:2,3 30:17 | lots | maintained | 94:22 | | 43:19 54:4,5 64:4 | 25:4 99:2 | 164:12 184:24 186:4 | manufactured | | 108:3 123:12 | Lou | 186:4 | 145:1 172:11 | | 129:22 133:23 | 101:3 | maintaining | many | | 165:17,18,19 175:3 | love | 43:16 | 26:10 29:1 30:17 | | 178:17 | 11:1 27:5 33:1 | make | 65:1 76:14 149:8 | | longer | 157:24 158:19 | 27:11 28:7 35:1 36:2 | 158:4 160:24 | | 9:15 38:3 42:20 | 177:17 | 38:18 59:5,21 63:2 | 166:21 204:5 | | 64:25 | loved | 66:17 67:2 69:22 | man's | | long-term | 26:16 29:23 91:15 | 119:4 136:17 | 142:8,8 | | 10:22 43:5 | 104:23 106:2 | 142:10 143:2 204:2 | March | | look | 110:13,18,19 | 209:21 | 139:8 140:12 145:24 | | 9:21 12:13 26:10,13 | 195:20 | makes | 145:25 | | 31:15 39:2,6,12 | ludicrous | 20:8 94:8 103:20 | mark | | 44:6 70:15 76:12 | 116:16 186:15 | 119:9 171:20 | 1:10 2:20 43:20,22 | | 84:11 95:21 99:3 | 207:17 | 185:19 | 173:18 192:21 | | 116:17 124:7 143:2 | lunch | making | 193:7 198:2 199:1 | | 145:10 146:12 | 163:11 213:7 | 3:20 39:13,14 | marked | | 158:6 173:22 | lying | male | 173:20 174:1,1,17 | | looked | 197:25 | 87:9 | markings | | 57:1 133:5 158:5 | | males | 173:14 | | looking | 72:23,24 133:7,22 | 112:19 | marks | | 9:10 11:2 12:9,11,12 | 156:4 | | 175:22 | | | 1 | I | 1 | ![](_page_77_Picture_2.jpeg) | Markus | 106:18 107:20 | 55:2,5 73:20 | 22:11 23:11 28:18 | |-----------------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------| | 1:13 2:23,24 5:23 6:5 | 108:25 112:5,16 | matter | 29:20,22 30:25 31:7 | | 6:21 12:7 21:25 | 113:10,23 114:15 | 141:1 | 32:2,19,19,21 34:2 | | 22:2 28:17 33:18 | 114:19,23 120:12 | Maxwell's | 37:8,15 40:16 43:3 | | 34:11 39:15,23 40:3 | 125:13 157:5 161:8 | 8:25 | 49:10 50:17,18,23 | | 67:20 69:17 71:17 | 161:9 167:4 | may | 51:18 66:1 71:1 | | 71:23 72:2 74:9,12 | massaged | 9:23 15:5 17:8 26:21 | 72:5 74:5 76:19 | | 74:14,17 83:1 84:10 | 117:13 157:8 | 27:21 29:6 33:2 | 83:20,22 86:17 | | 85:16,21 90:1 93:5 | massages | 38:23 39:9 44:11 | 95:24 97:15 98:14 | | 97:14 98:14,18 | 75:6,14 76:22 84:6 | 63:20 75:15 79:15 | 101:3 105:13 | | 123:23 124:1 128:4 | 89:8 102:16 108:15 | 79:16 87:5,8 95:15 | 106:21 113:14 | | 128:9 135:16 | 108:15 112:19 | 104:19 108:16 | 117:11 118:7 | | 138:14 141:19,22 | 114:13 115:15 | 115:10 127:2 | 119:16122:12 | | 143:7 144:10,17 | 116:23 117:7 118:1 | 128:24 129:12 | 123:11 125:22 | | 147:18 148:7 | 120:17 183:20 | 130:18 148:24,24 | 127:6,7 128:8 | | 151:14 164:23 | masseur | 166:24 182:2,3 | 135:11 137:14,16 | | 165:15 188:1,8 | 91:17 | 194:14 196:18 | 153:2 155:1 161:11 | | 193:25 194:2 | masseuse | 213:16,25 | 162:9,24,25 163:23 | | 203:17 211:9,16 | 87:9 88:8,11,21 91:1 | maybe | 178:3,5 184:15 | | 212:16 | 91:3,16 92:12,13 | 14:7 15:9 19:3 28:9 | | | Marrakesh | | | 187:3,5,8,9,10 | | | 94:25 95:8 96:22 | 32:9,9 34:14,15 | 188:3 190:10 191:3 | | 140:19 | 97:23 98:24 99:2 | 37:3,4,5 39:24 42:7 | 191:16 193:5,9 | | marriage | 102:25 108:24 | 44:14 48:25 54:1 | 196:20 197:21,24 | | 32:7 | 109:3 111:17,18,19 | 58:13,14 64:25 69:4 | 198:16,18,19 207:3 | | married | 112:2 113:24 | 76:9 79:14,15 89:10 | 209:18 | | 24:6,7,9 32:4 71:4 | 120:11 186:1 | 89:10 96:5 106:8,16 | meaning | | 95:9 117:20 | masseuses | 108:4 111:22 115:1 | 3:23 5:10 30:8 52:22 | | marry | 75:18 87:19 89:9,21 | 115:2,4,21 117:1 | 88:15 89:21 98:24 | | 153:25 | 90:13,17,20 92:3,10 | 123:17,19 126:18 | 119:4 120:15 128:8 | | Marshal | 93:12,12 97:13,19 | 131:19 141:11 | 172:11 187:14 | | 1:10 2:21 | 98:17,20 99:2 108:9 | 142:1,2 154:13 | 195:24 210:12 | | Martha's | 108:14 110:2 | 161:9 163:6 180:12 | meaningful | | 156:4 | 116:11,23,24 | 180:13,17 182:14 | 4:18 38:22 | | Mar-a-Lago | 117:10 120:9 149:8 | 182:14 190:16 | means | | 105:20,25 108:24 | 171:13 176:21 | 196:15,17 201:19 | 4:8,12 75:3 98:1 | | 109:3 | 183:23 184:25 | 208:2,3 210:7 | 158:21 168:15 | | Mar-a-Lago's | 185:20,22 202:13 | mayor | meant | | 108:14 | masturbate | 151:7,8 | 20:17 22:4 37:16 | | mass | 98:2 | MCC | 39:13 70:1 143:2 | | 112:6 | masturbated | 203:15,23 207:7 | media | | massage | 93:14 | McMillan | 6:24 215:3 | | 87:17 88:7,9,19 91:9 | match | 9:11 12:17 | medical | | 91:12,14,15 92:19 | 44:12 | McMillen | 22:6 115:10,10 | | 92:21 96:17 97:24 | materials | 100:15,17 | medicinal | | 98:13 102:18,23 | 52:7 211:7 | mean | 91:13 | | 103:1,17 104:5,8 | math | 13:17 16:2 19:3 | meet | ![](_page_78_Picture_2.jpeg) | 5:23 7:16,20 8:17 | 191:25 195:10 | Minis | modeling | |----------------------|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------| | 10:4,24 11:5,14 | Meryl | 196:1 | 82:24 | | 12:2,5 13:22 33:6 | 162:14 | Minister | modification | | 34:17 54:13 59:3 | messages | 196:2 | 111:14 | | 64:1 69:7 72:3 | 186:10 | Minsky | modified | | 129:8 133:1 136:21 | metamorphosis | 103:12,14 | 123:11 | | 153:18,20 160:20 | 171:19 172:7 | minute | mom | | 161:4,24162:6 | Mexico | 4:10 17:23 20:15 | 177:16 | | 181:14,25 | 26:3,16,16 30:15 | 56:12 102:2 137:8 | moment | | meeting | 77:17 90:14 116:19 | minutes | 11:3 18:17 20:6,8 | | 3:23,24 11:13 69:11 | 125:23 140:20 | 3:13,19 46:18 70:2 | 86:20 90:7 118:12 | | 123:3 155:3 196:8 | 162:21 200:1 | 129:4 163:11 | 118:25 | | meetings | Miami | 194:17 211:2,8 | Monckton | | 60:12 | 151:8 | Miramax | 129:25 | | Melissa | mid | 162:12 | money | | 1:15 3:2,3 | 32:7 59:5 91:2 108:4 | mirrors | 19:14 28:3,4 29:13 | | members | 108:4 184:22 | 143:3 | 29:13,17,17,24 30:9 | | 29:15 129:8 130:19 | 190:25 | misconduct | 36:12 54:18 56:21 | | memorable | Middleton | 113:4 | 56:23,24 57:2,8,10 | | 11:8 199:10 200:4,16 | 198:3 199:1 | misdated | 57:11,21 58:20 59:5 | | memories | might | 147:3 | 60:1 66:1 75:21 | | 156:15 | 17:8,19 32:10 64:8 | mishigas | 79:3,4 80:5 127:2.7 | | memory | 64:11 102:7 114:2,4 | 84:9 | 139:11163:4,7 | | 27:19,21 29:3,6 | 114:15 126:24 | misinformation | 174:10 190:7 | | 44:10 53:11 66:17 | 133:9 144:2 166:7 | 213:1,3 | Montana | | 102:20 107:9 | 176:6,6 185:21 | mislead | 26:12 | | 111:24 124:24 | 197:13 202:5 | 210:4 | Montecristo | | 125:11,22 127:17 | miles | mismanagement | 201:18 | | 148:14 152:20 | 159:3 | 204:15 205:24 | month | | 156:13161:12 | million | misnomers | 19:15 | | 163:3 187:9 196:8 | 47:21,23 62:13 | 23:9 | months | | 196:13,14,19,22 | 137:16 169:4,10 | miss | 19:3 95:11,13 96:11 | | memory's | 171:2 180:15,15 | 130:13,14 143:17.18 | 168:18 | | 69:23 | millions | missed | more | | men | 35:19 | 84:9 | 17:20 23:12 36:12 | | 73:8 82:19,21 87:12 | mind | missing | 38:3,11 40:17,18 | | 87:15 89:7 112:23 | 26:8 93:22 94:8 | 86:12,13 153:14 | 46:17 54:6 58:8 | | 112:25 167:5 | 102:15 111:11 | 158:13 | 61:7,15 68:25 69:1 | | 172:22 174:10 | 120:10 134:5 | misspeak | 69:3 92:3,3,10 96:6 | | mention | 149:19 172:9 | 129:14 209:16 | 98:24 99:12 111:18 | | 121:10 | 180:14184:12 | misspoke | 115:15,17116:2 | | mentioned | mind-blowingly | 129:12 | 120:4,18 124:8 | | 63:22 99:18 100:3,4 | 141:16 | Mitchell | 135:2 137:20 | | 100:6 102:9,10 | mine | 199:4,22 200:10 | 141:12 152:12 | | 104:9,11 121:8 | 10:19 64:10 94:17 | mixture | 162:9 163:10 171:7 | | 157:12 169:7 | 151:7 172:7 201:18 | 138:25 | 174:14 178:3 | ![](_page_79_Picture_2.jpeg) | 188:19 202:4,21 | 163:20 180:17 | namely | new | |-----------------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------| | 209:19 211:23 | 210:7,14 | 110:1 | 2:7 9:4,5,5,12,20,22 | | 207117 211125 | multiple | names | 10:15 12:15 15:5 | | 67:13 71:9 151:19 | 9:3 13:7 91:10 | 65:4,7,9 69:22 70:10 | 19:7 22:21 26:1,3 | | 152:9 | 116:22,23 117:7 | 70:18 71:19 102:7 | 26:16,16 30:15 31:6 | | morning | 146:20 183:23 | 151:16 174:2,2,5 | 31:7,9 39:14 51:7 | | 2:5 3:8,10 5:23 191:8 | multi-billionaire | 175:23,25 178:15 | 51:20 52:14,25 53:2 | | 214:19 | 171:6 | 178:23 185:4 186:1 | 53:19 55:10 62:7 | | morphed | mum | 190:13 202:4,8,19 | 73:6 77:6,17 81:19 | | 115:3 172:3,5 | 31:14 38:21 39:2,6 | Nantucket | 90:14 92:11,13,16 | | morphs | 140:11 163:23 | 133:14,16 | 92:16 110:22,22,23 | | 171:23 | 177:12 | narrative | 116:19,20 117:9 | | Mossad | mum's | 86:14 166:9 | 125:23,24 136:13 | | 189:16,22 190:8 | 140:4 141:1,12 | Nat | 137:11 140:17,20 | | most | 147:15 | 158:10 159:16 | 162:21 170:22,24 | | 3:21 4:4,18 11:8 | murder | Nathan | 172:6,25 175:19 | | 68:16 117:16 118:1 | 16:13 206:17 | 4:1 | 179:6 199:12,25 | | 158:3,5 199:10 | murdered | national | 200:1 | | 200:3,15,17 | 207:11 | 158:2 159:5 | news | | mostly | museum | nationals | 9:12,22 131:13 146:7 | | 106:5 110:20 149:18 | 72:11 | 190:14 | newspaper | | mother | must | nature | 9:5 | | 38:24 39:1,7 44:2 | 24:20 98:19 114:11 | 68:9 107:10 141:15 | newspapers | | 126:4 | 187:5 196:12 | 155:14 196:3 | 119:13 | | move | myself | necessarily | next | | 12:11 | 3:14 7:19 18:16 | 5:3 60:15 176:11 | 36:21 91:23 124:2 | | moved | 19:16 26:24 37:17 | 185:22 | 213:11,14,15 | | 8:19,20,22 20:2 43:4 | 38:12 80:15 89:13 | need | nice | | 48:17 50:12 | 123:5 208:13,14,17 | 9:15 11:3 29:24 | 136:24 137:9,19 | | moves | 209:22,25 | 76:13 86:9 119:21 | 152:14,17 163:25 | | 57:10 136:2 | N | 129:11 185:21 | 177:16 | | moving | N | 188:9 | nicest | | 111:12 132:12 | N | needed | 210:24 | | Ms | 2:1 | 37:11,13 117:13 | Nigel | | 2:9,14 3:8 5:17,17 | naked | 136:13,19 185:9,13 | 137:14 | | 6:14,20 40:8 65:14 | 93:12 103:1 180:1,1 | 208:14,14,15 | night | | 66:12 67:6 109:14 | name | needs | 20:12 140:1 | | 109:16 122:25 | 2:4,5,11,25 3:2 33:1 | 214:5 | nightclub | | 136:8 137:23 148:5 | 54:23 58:12,19 67:7 | nefarious | 140:1 | | 165:25 194:11 | 69:3 71:15 129:24 | 127:18,18,19 | nine | | much | 162:14 164:9 | negative | 19:3 142:2 | | 9:15,25 10:1 33:1 | 184:11 192:14 | 213:12 | nobody | | 47:15,22 55:11 61:7 | 196:25 | neither | 31:10 120:16 | | 104:23 111:16 | named | 215:7 | nodding | | 132:19 137:20 | 63:15 67:9 182:23 | nervous | 80:11 | | 146:12 153:3 | 191:21 198:2 | 158:1 | noise | | | • | · | · | ![](_page_80_Picture_2.jpeg) | Γ | | | 2 | |----------------------|---------------------|----------------------------------------|---------------------------| | 142:10 | 96:14 97:11 98:6 | obtains | Official | | none | 99:5 102:7 105:4 | 167:11 | 215:14 | | 110:15 120:17 173:1 | 109:6 111:11,17,20 | obvious | often | | 179:14 | 113:2 115:21 | 27:22 77:4 178:6 | 11:10 88:7 110:17,18 | | nonexistent | 116:14 119:9 | 196:16 | 114:23 131:7 | | 50:10 | 123:19 124:25 | obviously | | | nonsense | 126:7 127:1 132:12 | 16:19 22:14 24:25 | 7:5 50:25 55:6 57:6 | | 144:24 | 132:25 133:15,23 | 29:11,24 56:18 | 64:1 69:2,16 70:17 | | non-existent | 138:23 140:23 | 59:11,23 84:14 | 76:5 80:8 88:17 | | 50:17 | 145:16,22,24 149:5 | 85:11 88:20 103:25 | 99:20,24 101:13 | | non-prosecution | 164:1 165:22 166:1 | 121:22 123:11 | 106:13 122:14 | | 169:15 170:10 | 169:13,24 171:4,16 | 125:1 155:4 158:21 | 123:7 125:19 132:1 | | 187:24 188:20 | 172:23 175:16,25 | 165:4 184:15 | 139:21,25 140:1 | | nor | 176:9 184:4,7,12,12 | 197:24 203:15 | 141:24 143:25 | | 76:16 84:24 215:7,11 | 184:19 190:15 | 214:2 | 144:16 146:4 153:4 | | normal | 194:11 204:14 | occasion | 154:21 156:1 | | 61:4 80:15 96:7 | nowhere | 20:16 51:10 | 163:23 171:18 | | nose | 169:8 | occurred | 175:13 179:16 | | 203:20 | NPA | 117:23,24 118:17 | 197:5 203:12,17 | | note | 170:19,23 188:6 | 135:8 | Ohio | | 174:8 179:1 | nuanced | ocean | 21:5,7,10,17 67:8 | | notes | 5:10 89:10 | 157:24 158:1,9,19,22 | 71:14 72:6 | | 69:10 70:8 100:22 | number | 158:24,24 159:3,5 | OIG | | 168:10 194:16 | 121:4 | October | 205:3 | | nothing | numbers | 166:25 168:18 | old | | 11:19 29:8,20,25 | 184:15 185:4 | off | 39:21 82:13 142:14 | | 46:11,11 64:8 88:18 | nut | 46:14 97:24 98:1 | 143:25 163:25 | | 135:11,20 164:10 | 142:10 | 100:1 113:9,18 | older | | 164:25 165:1 178:3 | 0 | 126:22,23 128:19 | 210:19 | | 179:17 187:6 203:8 | observation | 136:4 165:23 174:7 | once | | noticed | 99:4 | 174:10 190:22 | 13:16 37:4,5 52:20 | | 79:4 | observe | 194:9
offensive | 59:4 106:8 151:2 | | notion
73:8 86:14 | 60:13 81:6 84:4 | 214:2 | 168:8,8 182:2,4,14
one | | notwithstanding | 90:11 104:14 | offered | 4:14,18 7:7 8:13 15:1 | | 103:11 | 106:17.20 111:25 | 7:19 | 16:12 17:2 18:14 | | now | 113:3 156:20 | office | 19:8,8 20:13,16 | | 3:14 11:6 14:1 18:3 | 160:21 161:7,9 | 11:14 23:13,13 74:5 | 23:8 24:23,23 26:8 | | 24:17 25:3,5,6,21 | 183:17 202:12 | 79:16 113:19 | 29:18 36:23,25 | | 26:18 28:11 29:2 | observed | 186:11 | 59:11 62:18 67:18 | | 38:12 39:24 42:5 | 59:24 99:8,9 105:12 | officer | 67:20 70:18 72:14 | | 44:2 52:13 53:5,20 | 110:3 113:22 | 4:22 13:15,17 | 72:17 78:20 81:1 | | 54:7 55:15 61:2 | 176:18 193:8 | officers | 85:12 86:12,22,25 | | 74:22,25 83:9 84:18 | 198:14 203:1 | 4:23 | 87:18 88:23 89:14 | | 85:8 86:24 90:6 | obsessed | offices | 89:16,20 90:23 | | 94:17 95:2,15 96:8 | 114:12 | 11:7,24,24 176:6 | 96:24 104:3 110:24 | | | I | ,,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ ,_ , | | ![](_page_81_Picture_2.jpeg) | 114:25 115:1,16 | 44:9 111:1 204:25 | 113:9 132:16 153:6 | 71:25 | |---------------------|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|---------------------| | 121:7,13,20,20,22 | opportunity | 187:21 | oversaw | | 121:23 128:14 | 17:11 207:19 212:8 | otherwise | 36:1 | | 133:15,15 135:18 | opposite | 116:10 215:11 | overturn | | 138:7 140:8 143:9 | 92:14 | our | 170:10,19,20 | | 145:8 146:1,20,20 | OPR | 3:21 5:11 12:19 15:1 | overturning | | 146:21 148:7 151:3 | 169:25 | 20:3 30:19 115:5 | 170:23 | | 152:19 156:15 | orbit | 137:12 | owed | | 157:4 158:4,16,18 | 95:8 | out | 62:12 | | 160:6,10 163:19 | organize | 6:21 7:10 25:19 | own | | 172:25 174:4,5 | 136:14 | 37:10 41:23 44:8 | 8:24 16:24 28:4,4 | | 175:18 179:21 | organized | 46:5 48:5,5 50:7 | 37:25 39:6 121:25 | | 181:19 185:15,25 | 131:16 177:19 | 51:14 63:5,10 71:24 | 122:4,9 123:21,22 | | 186:13 194:5,15,25 | 201:20 | 88:12 93:24 96:13 | 160:18 162:17 | | 197:13,23 201:8 | organizing | 102:15,20 116:9,12 | 163:21 168:5 | | 202:24 203:7 207:9 | 39:13 | 120:5 123:21 | 184:16 | | ones | origin | 133:20 135:19,24 | owners | | 92:20 158:5 | 166:8,16 | 151:12 155:3 | 110:9,10,11 | | one-off | original | 166:20,21 169:4 | P | | 208:8 | 171:20 173:2 176:2 | 171:2 172:2 173:3 | Р | | ongoing | originally | 184:4 186:18 | Pagano | | 209:7 | 12:15 110:9 174:3 | 197:22 199:13 | 100:25 | | only | Oscar | 208:17 213:2,19 | page | | 6:23 21:3 27:4 34:9 | 2:23 | outcome | 180:15 | | 37:7 63:7,9,17,22 | other | 169:22 215:12 | pages | | 71:12 78:6,8 79:14 | 5:2,21 16:14 22:12 | outfit | 180:9 181:2,3,7 | | 103:25 104:6 | 24:23 25:4 29:14 | 147:12,14 | paid | | 105:16 108:5 | 31:4 38:14 40:14 | outside | 27:13,20 28:2 31:22 | | 112:25 119:12 | 49:10 57:19 58:6 | 39:17,18 80:14,17 | 47:16 48:12 61:10 | | 126:3,3,7 127:4,17 | 64:9 71:19 72:22 | 141:3,7 159:5 206:6 | 61:11,14 73:21 | | 146:1,1 147:23 | 81:4 100:4,8,9 | 206:8 | 97:25 139:11 | | 152:19,19 156:18 | 111:16 114:15 | over | paint | | 170:2 175:6 180:17 | 119:13 120:5 | 5:24 9:20 12:5 13:23 | 19:24 140:21 | | 185:6 195:17 | 125:25 126:5 | 14:6 20:21 31:5 | painting
72:10 | | 198:16,19 208:11 | 127:21,23 128:16 | 32:1 34:1 40:17 | Palm | | open | 139:22 147:17,19 | 44:8 48:6,17 64:19 | 21:3,5,17 39:17,18 | | 113:14 | 147:25 148:8,21 | 84:4 85:6 89:6 | 42:15 43:10 44:5,12 | | opening
46:21 | 151:4 155:2 157:4 | 91:23 97:15,20 | 42:13 43:10 44:3,12 | | 46:21
operation | 160:16 162:11
169:12 179:21 | 109:18 112:18
116:19 118:14 | 78:25 79:3,6,6 | | 167:11 | 181:13 191:2,5,12 | 120:9 129:5 149:4 | 82:14 90:14 105:20 | | operator | 191:13 191:2,5,12 | 160:22 173:14 | 116:18,20 125:20 | | 35:11 | 213:15 | 181:15 184:21 | 126:3 161:3,4 | | opine | others | overheard | 162:21 174:6 | | 188:22 | 17:1 75:14 81:13 | 59:25 | paper | | opinion | 84:5 92:3 109:21 | overnight | 171:22 174:24 175:6 | | | 0.00 / 200 100/121 | gitte | | ![](_page_82_Picture_2.jpeg) | 178:1 | 111:15,19 115:25 | 207:12 210:17,18 | Pestana | |----------------------|----------------------|---------------------|----------------------| | papers | Pastrana | 210:20,21 212:12 | 1:7 2:17,17 145:6,11 | | 93:24 119:24 146:23 | 200:22,25 201:8,10 | people's | 152:8 195:10,12 | | 174:8 | path | 61:4 175:8 176:5 | phase | | paperwork | 8:2 | percent | 110:20 | | 172:19 | Paula | 43:18 60:23 164:8 | Philip | | Pardon | 38:24 | 180:18 210:1 | 151:8,8,9,13,15 | | | | | | | 189:25
Basis | pay | percentage | phone | | Paris | 47:6,9 195:20 205:19 | 57:23 61:19 | 15:6 41:18 45:2,3,7 | | 24:14,21 49:19 77:20 | 205:20 | percentages | 50:19 51:9 | | 77:21 158:14 | paying | 61:10 | phones | | 160:12 | 30:9 47:11,12 | Perelman | 137:4 | | part | payment | 160:11 | photo | | 3:21 4:4 32:8 36:3,3 | 47:18 | perfect | 134:5 145:7 147:1,2 | | 41:4,8 44:19 46:14 | pays | 175:13 | 147:4,6 | | 46:21 49:23 59:4,22 | 30:10 | perform | photograph | | 62:10 63:13 75:6,7 | peasant | 93:13 | 76:7 127:12 131:2 | | 81:22 90:21,22 92:2 | 29:18 | perhaps | 133:2 139:18 145:4 | | 92:2 109:19 113:8 | peg | 137:6 | 147:23 | | 115:4,16 117:4 | 131:4 | period | photographed | | 149:7 159:2,5 | pen | 18:8,23 24:5 28:21 | 82:18 | | 168:23 169:13 | 6:6 | 36:21 38:2 46:18 | photographic | | 170:22 183:9 184:5 | penny | 51:3,4 64:25 65:18 | 76:7 | | 185:25 186:3 | 29:25 | 79:19 85:6 93:16,16 | photographs | | 187:14 207:1 | people | 94:2 95:3,5,14 | 81:6 82:11,14,17,20 | | partially | 13:22 14:4 15:22 | 96:12,20 100:10 | 83:9,10,25 106:22 | | 92:6 | 38:15 43:15,16 | 105:22 109:17 | 106:22,25 107:2 | | particular | 49:10 62:1 66:18 | 110:16 114:21,22 | 131:14 | | 12:4 54:7 | 68:24 72:22,22 74:6 | 116:2 117:16 118:2 | photos | | parties | 75:18 82:18 85:11 | 119:1 129:21 159:8 | 82:2 83:12 | | 146:13 149:4 202:15 | 85:22 87:6 92:20 | 166:12 197:17 | physical | | 215:8,11 | 93:1 96:10 99:17 | periods | 37:21 67:18 77:1 | | partner | 100:4 102:6 107:14 | 86:9 193:11 197:16 | 80:23 91:12 141:23 | | 61:13 | 110:23 111:16,23 | person | 141:24 | | | 110:25 111:10,25 | 17:11 90:25 97:4 | physicality | | partners
68:12,13 | 124:18 125:15 | 103:15 108:1 | 32:19 | | · · | 124:18 125:15 | 111:17 117:16 | | | parts | | | physically | | 175:7 | 129:23,23,23 | 118:1 120:14 123:5 | 139:4 142:23,23 | | party | 142:20 149:11,17 | 126:5 | 144:5 148:25 | | 147:15 148:4 149:6,7 | 151:4 162:12 | personal | pick | | 149:9 | 164:13,13 169:10 | 60:20 67:25 108:17 | 22:19 | | passed | 172:20 173:19 | 156:13 193:2 | picking | | 12:6,14 163:14 | 174:3 177:19,21,24 | personally | 40:10 | | passing | 178:13 185:4,21,25 | 11:14 161:10 | picture | | 12:19 28:23 | 195:2,4 197:22 | perspective | 25:20 134:3,3 137:15 | | past | 205:16 206:23 | 17:9 | 144:25 145:18,23 | | | I | I | I | ![](_page_83_Picture_2.jpeg) | 180:1 | planet | 61.5 | president | |----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------| | pictures | 123:16 | portion | 33:11,11 34:11,22,23 | | 78:12 81:7 82:5,22 | planned | 57:21 179:5 | 99:18 100:4,6 | | | 140:24 | portions | | | 82:23 83:1,7,7,16 | plant | | 103:17,24 104:7,11 | | 83:19 | | 179:11 180:8 | 104:14,17,25 105:4 | | piece | 77:1 80:22,23 | position | 105:25 106:18,23 | | 96:15 132:20 138:5 | plea | 5:7 84:1 | 107:17,19,21,22 | | 167:2 178:1 212:9 | 193:18 | positioned | 108:1,8 150:2,25 | | pieced | please | 30:6 | 151:4,9,11 178:25 | | 96:14 | 6:6 58:2 144:20 | positions | 179:17,18,21 | | pieces | 197:6 | 81:8 | 194:19,21 198:7 | | 140:21 169:12 | plenty | positive | 200:22 213:20 | | 171:22 174:24 | 207:18 | 101:17 147:24 | 214:1 | | Piers | plus | possible | President's | | 151:18 152:9 | 118:21 149:1,5,18 | 108:20,22 206:13.14 | 107:11 | | pills | 186:8 187:10 | possibly | press | | 191:4,14 | podcast | 80:14 184:14 | 12:22 37:9 51:13,24 | | pilot | 170:6 | post | 63:8,17,24 119:2 | | 201:14,14 | point | 133:4149:18,18 | 124:18194:18 | | pimp | 13:4 17:14,20 18:11 | 151:11 | 196:18,20 | | 94:19 | 24:4 27:17 31:22,25 | Poster | presumably | | Pinto | 38:2,8 44:1,24,25 | 162:14 | 117:9 | | 140:15 | 49:11,19 52:14 | post-2000 | presume | | pissed | 54:14,24 96:8 | 129:4 | 140:13 | | 136:4 | 110:10 117:12 | potentially | pretend | | place | 119:3,3,5,8 122:3 | 75:19 76:25 123:21 | 125:4 | | 54:14 75:24 139:19 | 123:21 136:12 | 145:2 | pretty | | 142:9 143:16 | 137:6 139:3 145:2 | powerful | 23:1 52:15 79:23 | | 144:24 146:3 161:6 | 190:4,25 197:14 | 83:25 207:12 | 91:20 | | 166:20 168:14 | 205:1 207:4 208:9 | Practically | prevented | | 176:3 209:18 210:2 | 210:15 | 58:7 | 22:10 | | places | police | pre | pre-meeting | | 201:7 | 45:4 79:6,6 | 133:4 | 131:23 | | plan | politician | precisely | primary | | 113:14 141:23 213:8 | 13:22 | 79:22 | 162:14 | | plane | politicians | precludes | Prime | | 24:16,19 29:23 33:16 | 190:19 | 22:7 | 196:1,2 | | 33:18 34:1,4,6,12 | poor | preface | Prince | | 38:20 60:12 77:22 | 142:7 | 170:3 | 101:9 132:14,17,22 | | 77:23,24 78:4 104:1 | pop | premise | 132:22 133:18 | | 104:2,4,6 113:5,6,9 | 197:22 | 76:3 | 134:12 135:5,13 | | 113:25 158:13,13 | Pope | prequel | 136:7,9 137:10,23 | | 158:15 182:9,18,20 | 200:19 | 166:18 169:13 | 139:11 141:14 | | 201:6 | popped | present | 145:11 148:5 | | planes | 156:7 | 81:12 110:2 135:1 | Princess | | 113:12 125:23 | portfolios | 166:15 | 129:24 133:3 | | | | | | ![](_page_84_Picture_2.jpeg) | [ | | | rage 5. | |----------------------|-------------------------------|----------------------------------|----------------------| | prior | progressed | 201:1 | Q | | 156:1 | 115:1,3 | public | | | prison | progression | 91:25 106:22 109:20 | quarter | | 205:17,18 206:7,8 | 85:4 90:8 111:13 | 153:3 175:3 202:7 | 47:21,23 | | prisoner | 116:1 | 206:23 | quarters | | 205:20 | | | 158:24 | | Prisons | project
26:1 157:13 | publicity
136:6 138:12 | question | | | | | 7:17 8:2 75:11 85:18 | | 204:16,18 206:2 | projects | publicized | 85:20,25 88:22 | | Pritzker | 35:13,14,24 | 6:25 | 93:17,25 99:15 | | 101:2 | prolific | publicly | 103:23 113:12 | | private | 99:5 | 98:3 151:17 166:4 | 117:15 120:8,22 | | 54:23 76:20 105:15 | prominent | 175:7 | 121:13 124:2,21 | | 105:18 108:15,25 | 102:13 | publishing | 151:25 153:10 | | pro | promising | 9:11 | 155:8,10 178:6 | | 170:13 | 3:24 4:1 | purchase | 188:15 206:5 | | probably | properties | 36:8 110:12 | questions | | 59:14 72:2 108:3 | 35:16,16,17 37:23 | purchased | 2:13 3:16 7:25 13:8 | | 124:8 134:8 141:11 | 47:4 163:9 | 9:12 26:2,7 105:25 | 110:6 181:12 | | 152:12 210:24 | property | 110:8 | 189:12 194:14 | | problem | 26:11 27:2 62:6,14 | purported | 202:6 211:19 | | 7:18 56:16 163:19 | prosecuted | 119:2 136:7 | quibbling | | 203:22 | 7:12 167:16 168:21 | purpose | 88:21 | | problems | 168:25 | 139:12 170:9,20 | quiet | | 138:8 163:21 | prosecution | purposes | 46:13 207:11 | | proceedings | 4:20 169:16 | 146:19,21 167:22 | quite | | 215:9 | prosecutor | 184:18 201:11 | 17:2 142:15,15 146:6 | | process | 146:11 169:20 | pushed | 163:24 | | 193:19 | prosecutors | 135:19 | | | produce | 172:24 | pushing | quoting | | 175:25 | prostitutes | 86:19 | 94:17 | | produced | 176:3 | put | R | | 167:19 173:13 | protection | 2:4,14 16:19 19:23 | R | | 175:18,20 | 4:8 16:19 84:25 | 21:12 47:5 76:15 | | | producer | | 136:2 139:2 142:16 | 2:1 | | 162:14 | protective | | rabbit | | | 17:2 | 143:2 175:1 176:5 | 17:22 | | professional | provide | 184:17 187:4 190:4 | raided | | 40:14 87:19 91:2 | 6:10 | 213:19 | 168:19 | | 154:15 | provided | puts | raise | | proffer | 215:3 | 99:25 | 163:4 | | 2:8 3:18 40:8 109:13 | providing | putting | raising | | 165:25 194:11 | 59:9 | 84:2 86:20 116:21 | 163:7 | | 214:21 | provost | 136:6 146:16 | ran | | program | 100:20 | 177:20 206:7 | 35:15 56:20 74:4,5 | | 94:18 | PS | p.m | 159:12 210:7 | | progress | 29:7 | 109:11,11 165:23 | ranch | | 85:14 | pub | 194:9,12 214:24 | | | | | 1 | I | ![](_page_85_Picture_2.jpeg) | 26:2,17,19,22 27:3 | reason | 165:23 168:24 | relation | |---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------| | 27:8,10 30:15 77:17 | 7:21 10:16,16,17 | 173:20 194:9 | 28:22 | | random | 14:24 44:13 48:22 | recorded | relations | | 123:18 | 58:20 79:2 85:24 | 2:10 109:13 165:25 | 30:24 66:21 76:5 | | rang | 94:14 115:3,4 | 194:11 214:21 | 98:16,20 117:25 | | 16:7,8 | 130:24 140:8,10,13 | recording | 139:15 142:13 | | Ranieri | 141:11,12 148:13 | 3:13 166:1 215:3,6 | 148:21 192:4 | | 101:3 | 150:23 170:4 171:9 | records | 195:25 | | raped | 188:15 205:24 | 42:2 115:10,11 | relationship | | 99:5 | 206:14,20 207:13 | recruited | 8:8 12:5 13:4 14:6 | | rate | 207:16 | 75:5 109:2 122:8,25 | 18:7 20:18,19 21:10 | | 205:21 | reasons | recruiting | 25:20,23 30:19 | | rather | 11:17 30:23 128:14 | 90:13 92:1 108:24 | 32:15 33:4 36:15,22 | | 7:14 | 140:9 205:16 | redacted | 37:2,20,21,25 38:19 | | reach | recall | 175:7 | 40:13 42:19 43:4 | | 41:23 | 17:13 39:10 50:16 | redecorate | 46:6,23 47:13 49:21 | | reached | 64:14 81:3 105:17 | 42:15 43:10 | 50:8 63:19 65:14,23 | | 6:21 7:10 | 107:17 108:6,20,22 | reduced | 67:16,24 68:10 71:2 | | read | 127:4 163:8 182:20 | 215:4 | 91:5 95:2 104:15,17 | | 24:17 63:11 108:16 | 192:16 200:4 | references | 105:6,8 115:5 129:5 | | 119:12 138:4,7 | 202:21 210:2 | 179:25 | 135:14 136:6,7,9 | | 187:21 189:2,12 | receive | referred | 137:24 138:1 | | 196:18 204:4 | 36:5 41:20 106:18 | 209:4 | 139:10 146:13,16 | | reading | received | referring | 150:18 154:15,25 | | 119:6 197:5 | 24:18 29:5 41:17 | 175:2 | 155:15 156:1 | | real | 75:14 82:5,9 102:16 | regards | 161:23 162:3,17 | | 12:9 26:10,14 29:18 | 102:18,22 103:17 | 208:12 | 163:22 181:18 | | 80:24 126:21 | 104:7 180:17 | register | 183:11,15 190:19 | | 135:11 136:24 | recently | 120:1 | 190:20 192:18,18 | | 184:8,16 | 152:12 177:6 | regular | 193:1,7 196:3 | | realized | recognize | 53:4,21 | 198:24 202:10 | | 32:1,9,12 | 123:16 184:15 | regularly | relationships | | really | recoil | 22:10 23:2,6 116:11 | 43:16 | | 3:24 18:21,23 20:7 | 157:9 | 118:7 | relationship's | | 20:18 32:11 35:15 | recollect | Reid | 104:18 | | 46:15 49:23 60:7 | 109:4 | 182:24 183:2,15 | relative | | 64:8,12 66:1,2 69:7 | recollection | reinforced | 215:9 | | 70:3 73:9 75:24 | 101:18 108:23 148:3 | 120:6 | rely | | 84:8 87:15 104:23 | 155:24 180:3 187:5 | reiterate | 38:10 185:9 | | 106:12 110:18,19 | 199:1 200:12 | 166:11 | relying | | 117:13 122:21 | 212:21 | related | 28:1,2 | | 123:17 135:14 | recommended | 11:17 16:15 215:7 | remainder | | 137:18,19,19 149:4 | 43:17,18,20 | relates | 57:22 | | 157:23 158:23 | record | 75:11 198:24 | remained | | 181:9 208:10,16 | 2:4,14 3:15 80:7 | relating | 24:25 | | 210:7,21 | 84:21 87:14 133:9 | 110:5 | remem | | | | | | ![](_page_86_Picture_2.jpeg) | 15:5 | 13:7 36:13 84:23 | 40:4,10 47:20 48:10 | 2:15 17:12 32:21 | |---------------------------|----------------------|-------------------------|---------------------| | Remus | 90:12 102:1,3,3 | 52:16 55:15 60:19 | 76:21 139:15 | | 158:12,15 | 137:22 163:18 | 69:21 71:13,21 | 141:16 | | rent | respects | 73:22 75:23 83:9,24 | | | 19:6 54:15 | 107:24 | 86:24 87:9 97:20 | 129:25 131:17 | | rented | responsibilities | 99:24 101:14 102:7 | Rosa's | | 19:18 22:21 133:13 | 25:25 | 106:14 110:7 113:2 | 129:25 | | repeat | responsible | 117:1,2 119:16 | Rosenfeldt | | 117:10 164:1 | 60:1 67:2 74:5 94:12 | 122:19 129:1 | 166:22 | | repetitive | 178:12 | 132:20 136:17 | Rosovsky | | 164:2 | rest | 138:9,23 139:25 | 100:19 102:17 | | rephrase | 120:7 179:14 | 140:1 142:1 144:2 | Rothschild | | 37:15 74:3 | restaurant | 147:11 150:6 153:8 | 72:24 | | replace | 182:5 | 165:5,21,22,24 | Rothstein | | 96:21 | restructured | 166:10 175:5 178:5 | 166:22,22 168:21 | | replacement | 60:9,19,20 | 185:10 187:22 | 176:1,2,2 | | 96:23 | resuming | 190:15 192:1 194:7 | Rothstein's | | replies | 165:24 | 195:16 203:10 | 168:19 170:15 171:1 | | 168:12 | retirement | 204:6 212:5 | | | report | 39:17,21 | rightly | 101:4 129:8 130:19 | | 121:8,10 205:3 | retrial | 140:19 | 130:22 132:17 | | reported | 5:4 | ring | 143:14 146:23 | | 75:4 89:16,21 202:23 | return | 95:10 | 190:16 | | 203:3,5 | 99:6 | | rubbing | | reporting | returned | 101:1 | 114:12,17 | | 28:12 91:25 109:20 | 12:15 | Rodriguez | rubbish | | 110:1 | revelation | 167:13,15 168:7 | 37:10 141:13 | | reports | 170:7 | 171:19 173:12,18 | rule | | 121:20 123:3 177:6 | reviewed | 174:15,16 176:15 | 186:15 | | represent | 49:14 | Rodriguez's | rules | | 191:23 | Revlon | 167:23 | 19:24 | | representative | 160:11 | role | running | | 189:16 | rhyme | 27:1 30:16 49:11 | 8:24 160:6 184:25 | | requires | 48:22 | 90:10,10,15 92:5 | rustic | | 84:24 | rich | 135:4 193:17,19 | 110:13 | | requiring | 59:6 142:8 207:12 | rolling | S | | 93:11,12 | RICO | 42:16 | safe | | resembles | 168:22,23 170:15 | Rolodex
174:15 185:3 | 17:16 137:13,14 | | 125:12 | ride | | Saffian | | residence
77:14 202:15 | 112:14
ridiculous | romantic
13:3 | 1:14 2:25,25 28:14 | | residences | 19:18 77:23 | Rome | 54:25 97:8 134:16 | | 78:13 | right | 200:8 | 139:24 141:5,23 | | resonate | 4:17 6:2,7,8 10:12 | Ron | 142:3 143:23 | | 189:13 | 16:4 17:24 26:7,20 | 94:18 160:10 | 165:13 167:8 | | respect | 28:11 37:15 39:4 | room | 197:25 | | respect | 20.11 57.15 57.4 | | | | | | | | ![](_page_87_Picture_2.jpeg) | said | 183:8,9 | 124:18 142:13 | 173:24 175:20 | |-----------------------------------------|-------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|----------------------| | 5:6,13,18 6:22 9:25 | Sarah | 167:20 170:1,7 | 196:10 198:17 | | 10:23 12:12,24 16:4 | 132:23 133:21,21 | 172:18 173:17 | 202:18 206:13 | | 19:16 20:15 22:25 | 134:20 135:18,18 | 174:9 186:2 197:6 | 211:10,16 213:23 | | 28:12 29:5,7 34:3 | 136:1 | scary | 214:4,5,19 | | 36:2 38:17 46:10 | sat | 31:9 | seeing | | 47:2,8 48:7 52:9 | 131:14 | schedule | 37:6 95:14 96:9,11 | | 57:25 61:18 63:8 | Saturday | 213:10 | 107:17 123:3 163:8 | | 66:23 83:6 84:3 | 141:8 | scheme | 179:4,9 180:7 181:3 | | 89:17 90:22 91:19 | sausage | 125:9 176:2 | 199:1 | | 92:24 93:19 97:18 | 142:18 | schlep | seem | | 98:3 99:20,23 | save | 112:13 | 214:11 | | 106:21 115:25 | 169:7 | school | seemed | | 116:8 117:4 118:6,6 | saved | 54:23 75:5 191:24 | 11:10 19:15 38:15 | | 119:25 122:7 123:8 | 61:18 | SDNY | 105:13 198:18 | | 124:18 126:16 | saw | 205:4 | seems | | 127:7 130:16 | 15:11 24:18 25:1,4 | sea | 116:15 186:14 | | 134:16 136:23 | 36:3 37:4 38:14 | 157:22,22 158:16,21 | seen | | 138:2,13 143:11 | 44:25 53:18 59:25 | second | 83:20,21 106:21 | | 147:1 156:10 166:7 | 61:9 74:3,4 76:16 | 13:14 118:3 140:10 | 125:11 139:1 | | 173:8 177:14,15,17 | 77:22 82:10,12 | 141:11 146:4,20 | 171:16 172:11,13 | | 177:18 180:8 | 84:17 89:18,18 99:1 | 163:19 168:2,13,14 | 175:23 198:19 | | 182:13 186:19 | 99:2 102:21 105:11 | second-guessing | 202:23 204:4 | | 187:6,6 188:3 | 105:17 107:19 | 122:5 | 211:15 214:6 | | 190:24 191:15 | 108:1 114:18 | secret | sees | | 193:15,21 195:22 | 117:16 121:11 | 28:21,21 170:18 | 111:25 | | 209:4,5,5 211:6,11 | 123:20 126:3,4 | secretaries | selected | | 212:3,9,16,17,17,18 | 139:4 143:5 145:16 | 176:5 | 170:13 174:3 | | 212:18 213:6 215:5 | 157:10 160:24 | secretary | self-confessed | | Saint | 161:6 162:22 163:8 | 185:15 | 94:15 | | 109:21 | 164:9 176:19 177:1 | security | sell | | sake | 180:20 181:7 | 78:17 80:17,19 | 110:11 | | 84:19 | 189:10 195:17 | see | selling | | salacious | 197:23 198:16 | 6:16 17:14 23:12,13 | 71:8 | | 120:5 | 203:7 212:14 | 23:14,16 25:5,6,7 | Senator | | salaried | saying | 28:22 31:13 34:24 | 199:3 200:4 | | 27:17 | 30:13 60:25 66:20 | 37:1,3 38:12 52:20 | send | | salary | 67:23 85:24 98:8,21 | 52:22 57:2 59:6 | 178:7,16 | | 47:20 | 98:22 99:23 115:14 | 74:9,14 85:21 87:15 | sense | | same | 121:1 122:6,12 | 92:25 95:7 113:20 | 13:20 20:8 35:1 63:2 | | 8:4 15:22 21:13,19
21:20 24:21 64:21 | 128:11 135:5 | 115:10,19 121:14 | 67:24 97:16 119:5,9 | | 66:13 73:2 125:22 | 174:13 176:9 184:8
197:23 213:13 | 121:15 125:15 | 185:19 | | 156:3 175:4 181:12 | | 138:16 140:18 | sent
96:17 | | 202:5 | says
6:8 43:10 49:2 54:16 | 142:16 143:9,15,19
148:16,17 153:4 | sentence | | 202:5
San | 57:17 122:24 | 161:14 162:11,24 | 188:20 189:6 | | San | 57.17 122.24 | 101.14 102.11,24 | 100.20 109.0 | | | | | | ![](_page_88_Picture_2.jpeg) | sentenced sex 28:25 shut 46:25 188:19 30:25 32:22 94:18 She'll 113:20 159:13,14 sep 113:4,23 116:10 72:24 sice for 26:2,2 84:2 86:9 172:23 191:11 197:25 side 60:2 66:2,2 84:2 86:9 172:23 191:11 197:25 side 124:25 125:4 139:3 sexual 129:3 6:6 155:21 161:23 22:12 30:24 75:16,17 shors signed separately 139:14 151:5 significant separating 75:8 94:15 120:13 short significant separating 75:8 94:15 120:13 164:24 silence sequestration 31:1 46:14 211:17 shortfallings silence serialization 14:24 191:13 shortfallings similar 206:12 similar 20:2 similar serious 24:8,11,19,21 38:25 nould 83:12 4:33 9:12 0 serious 24:8,11,19,21 38:25 nould sinaloa serious 24:8,11,19,21 38:25 nould | | | | | |---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|--------------------|---------------------| | 46:25 188:19 30:25 32:22 94:18 She'll 113:20 159:13,14 sep 113:4,23 116:10 72:24 sic 114:18 118:9,22 139:14,16 96:8 145:23 163:24 90:14 60:2 66:2,2 84:2 86:9 172:23 191:11 197:25 100:1 124:25 125:4 139:3 sexual 129:7 shift sign 124:25 125:4 139:3 sexual 129:3 6:6 significant 183:12,13 196:22 213:3,4 116:10 shoes significant 183:12,13 196:22 share 123:4 18:23 35:15,2 separately 139:14 151:5 13:21 18:23 35:15,2 199:14,15 sexuall 164:24 silence separating 75:8 94:15 120:13 164:24 silence sequestration 31:1 46:14 211:17 short comings 206:22 Slicon seriols share 82:24 similar similar seriols she Simmal Simmal Simmal seriols she Simmal Simmal Simal | sentenced | SON | 28.25 | chut | | sep 113:4,23 116:10 72:24 sic 114:18 118:9,22 139:14,16 she's 96:8 145:23 163:24 40:14 67:6 60:2 66:2,2 84:2 86:9 172:23 191:11 197:25 100:1 sign 89:10 114:19 192:7 shift sign 6:6 155:21 161:23 22:12 30:24 75:16,17 shoos sign 6:3,5 separately 39:14 129:3 6:3 significant separately 139:14 15:5:1 significant 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169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | 28:22 38:25 39:11 | she | 82:24 | simply | | 76:1039:8,10,14,15,1638:11 43:13 74:2497:2 169:2service58:17 72:9,17,24,25100:12 109:6Sinaloa2:21 59:972:25 91:1 94:15,15158:23 188:18,1857:9,10,12,17services94:19,24 95:5,7,7,9209:5 211:2,10since62:1295:11,14,17,19 96:3shoulder7:8 157:24 171:15serving96:3,4,12,13,15,20114:17197:1837:23 184:22 189:596:21,22,23 97:2shouldu'tsingleset117:19 122:24,24158:23 189:1220:12 29:25 76:16131:19 148:20123:3,8,20,22 125:8213:1497:4 99:2 121:7,8setting130:14 131:18,19show121:20107:20,21 108:5133:8,9,12,12,1373:15 87:13 126:22sistersettings139:11,13,17,21126:23 128:1911:1105:14,15,17,18145:4,17,17 146:2showed98:23settlements148:7,17 169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:23,206:952:19 169:10,11six | 51:13 91:10 196:13 | 5:18,18 10:1,23,25 | should | 83:20 | | service58:17 72:9,17,24,25100:12 109:6Sinaloa2:21 59:972:25 91:1 94:15,15158:23 188:18,1857:9,10,12,17services94:19,24 95:5,7,79209:5 211:2,10since62:1295:11,14,17,19 96:3shoulder7:8 157:24 171:1537:23 184:22 189:596:21,22,23 97:2shouldn't197:18set117:19 122:24,24158:23 189:1220:12 29:25 76:16131:19 148:20123:3,8,20,22 125:8213:1497:4 99:2 121:7,8setting130:14 131:18,19show121:20107:20,21 108:5133:8,9,12,12,1373:15 87:13 126:22sistersettings139:11,13,17,21126:23 128:1911:1105:14,15,17,18142:13 143:13,13211:9 214:4sit107:5,9,15145:4,17,17 146:2showed98:23settlements148:7,17 169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | seriously | 24:8,11,19,21 38:25 | 7:14 8:3 9:25 27:9 | simultaneously | | 2:21 59:9 72:25 91:1 94:15,15 158:23 188:18,18 57:9,10,12,17 services 94:19,24 95:5,7,7,9 209:5 211:2,10 since 62:12 95:11,14,17,19 96:3 shoulder 7:8 157:24 171:15 37:23 184:22 189:5 96:21,22,23 97:2 shouldr't 197:18 set 117:19 122:24,24 158:23 189:12 20:12 29:25 76:16 131:19 148:20 123:3,8,20,22 125:8 213:14 97:4 99:2 121:7,8 setting 130:14 131:18,19 show 121:20 107:20,21 108:5 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister settings 139:11,13,17,21 126:23 128:19 11:1 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 | 76:10 | 39:8,10,14,15,16 | 38:11 43:13 74:24 | 97:2 169:2 | | services94:19,24 95:5,7,7,9209:5 211:2,10since62:1295:11,14,17,19 96:3shoulder7:8 157:24 171:15serving96:3,4,12,13,15,20114:17197:1837:23 184:22 189:596:21,22,23 97:2shouldn'tsingleset117:19 122:24,24158:23 189:1220:12 29:25 76:16131:19 148:20123:3,8,20,22 125:8213:1497:4 99:2 121:7,8setting130:14 131:18,19show121:20107:20,21 108:5133:8,9,12,12,1373:15 87:13 126:22sistersettings139:11,13,17,21126:23 128:1911:1105:14,15,17,18142:13 143:13,13211:9 214:4sit107:5,9,15145:4,17,17 146:2showed98:23settlements148:7,17 169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | service | 58:17 72:9,17,24,25 | 100:12 109:6 | Sinaloa | | 62:1295:11,14,17,19 96:3shoulder7:8 157:24 171:15serving96:3,4,12,13,15,20114:17197:1837:23 184:22 189:596:21,22,23 97:2shouldn't197:18set117:19 122:24,24158:23 189:1220:12 29:25 76:16131:19 148:20123:3,8,20,22 125:8213:1497:4 99:2 121:7,8setting130:14 131:18,19show121:20107:20,21 108:5133:8,9,12,12,1373:15 87:13 126:22sistersettings139:11,13,17,21126:23 128:1911:1105:14,15,17,18142:13 143:13,13211:9 214:4sit107:5,9,15145:4,17,17 146:2showed98:23settlements148:7,17 169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | 2:21 59:9 | 72:25 91:1 94:15,15 | 158:23 188:18,18 | 57:9,10,12,17 | | serving
37:23 184:22 189:596:3,4,12,13,15,20
96:21,22,23 97:2114:17
shouldn't197:18
singleset117:19 122:24,24158:23 189:1220:12 29:25 76:16131:19 148:20123:3,8,20,22 125:8213:1497:4 99:2 121:7,8setting130:14 131:18,19133:8,9,12,12,1373:15 87:13 126:22sister107:20,21 108:5139:11,13,17,21126:23 128:19111:1105:14,15,17,18142:13 143:13,13211:9 214:4sit107:5,9,15145:4,17,17 146:2showed98:23settlements148:7,17 169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | services | 94:19,24 95:5,7,7,9 | 209:5 211:2,10 | since | | 37:23 184:22 189:5 96:21,22,23 97:2 shouldn't single set 117:19 122:24,24 158:23 189:12 20:12 29:25 76:16 131:19 148:20 123:3,8,20,22 125:8 213:14 97:4 99:2 121:7,8 setting 130:14 131:18,19 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister 107:20,21 108:5 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister 111:1 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 98:23 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 127:12 situation 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 42:16 91:15 160:19 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | 62:12 | 95:11,14,17,19 96:3 | shoulder | 7:8 157:24 171:15 | | 37:23 184:22 189:5 96:21,22,23 97:2 shouldn't single set 117:19 122:24,24 158:23 189:12 20:12 29:25 76:16 131:19 148:20 123:3,8,20,22 125:8 213:14 97:4 99:2 121:7,8 setting 130:14 131:18,19 130:14 131:18,19 show 121:20 107:20,21 108:5 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister settings 139:11,13,17,21 126:23 128:19 11:1 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | serving | 96:3,4,12,13,15,20 | 114:17 | 197:18 | | set117:19 122:24,24158:23 189:1220:12 29:25 76:16131:19 148:20123:3,8,20,22 125:8213:1497:4 99:2 121:7,8setting130:14 131:18,19show121:20107:20,21 108:5133:8,9,12,12,1373:15 87:13 126:22sister105:14,15,17,18142:13 143:13,13211:9 214:4sit107:5,9,15145:4,17,17 146:2showed98:23settlements148:7,17 169:21127:12situation168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | | | shouldn't | single | | 131:19 148:20 123:3,8,20,22 125:8 213:14 97:4 99:2 121:7,8 setting 130:14 131:18,19 show 121:20 107:20,21 108:5 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | set | | 158:23 189:12 | | | setting 130:14 131:18,19 show 121:20 107:20,21 108:5 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister settings 139:11,13,17,21 126:23 128:19 11:1 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | 131:19 148:20 | | 213:14 | 97:4 99:2 121:7.8 | | 107:20,21 108:5 133:8,9,12,12,13 73:15 87:13 126:22 sister settings 139:11,13,17,21 126:23 128:19 11:1 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | | | | | | settings 139:11,13,17,21 126:23 128:19 11:1 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | l o | , · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · | | | | 105:14,15,17,18 142:13 143:13,13 211:9 214:4 sit 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | - | | | | | 107:5,9,15 145:4,17,17 146:2 showed 98:23 settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | | , , , , | | | | settlements 148:7,17 169:21 127:12 situation 168:25 170:2,4,12,13,18 showing 42:16 91:15 160:19 seven-day 176:6 186:2 188:18 146:12 206:18 208:18 114:22 197:2,3,6,10,12,13 shown 212:18,18 several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | | , | | | | 168:25170:2,4,12,13,18showing42:16 91:15 160:19seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | | | | | | seven-day176:6 186:2 188:18146:12206:18 208:18114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | | , | | | | 114:22197:2,3,6,10,12,13shown212:18,18several197:23 206:952:19 169:10,11six | | , , , , , , , | | | | several 197:23 206:9 52:19 169:10,11 six | | | | | | | | | | , | | TREE FOR THE TREE TREE TREE TREE TREE TREE TREE | 4:22 17:1 102:9,11 | 212:17,17,18 | shows | 96:11 168:18 | | 112:15 139:22 sheer 160:8 size | | | | | | | | | | 35:13 141:15 142:10 | | 181:23 183:10 shenanigans 69:25 skin | | | | | | | 101.25 105.10 | Succession | 07.20 | - Stall | ![](_page_89_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | rage st | |----------------------|---------------------|-----------------------|------------------------------| | 142.10 | | Ι. | l | | 142:18 | somebody's | somewhere | spa | | sleep | 88:20 | 24:19 96:9 174:16 | 92:22 106:16 108:14 | | 18:22 21:20 113:15 | someone | Sony | 108:24 | | sleeping | 4:24 18:18 19:11 | 6:17 | Space | | 30:23 | 31:17 32:25 38:9 | DOJ REDACTION | 192:4 | | slept | 49:24 50:1 55:4 | | Spanish | | 18:13,17 20:12,15 | 61:18 67:3,9 85:11 | sophisticated | 49:25 | | slightly | 88:1 89:13 92:15 | 60:16,16 61:7 | spas | | 89:10 | 112:8 114:12,17 | sore | 92:19,19 93:1 112:6 | | slow | 136:16 191:20 | 137:6 | speak | | 122:22 | 198:2 202:25 | sorry | 6:22 7:5,11,15,18 | | small | something | 29:20 30:25 32:22 | 49:19 131:20 | | 66:21,24 142:15,21 | 4:19 5:6,14 10:17 | 39:3 53:3 61:1 62:2 | 172:21 | | 142:24 143:1 | 13:1 15:23 28:11 | 67:22 73:13 74:20 | speaking | | Smithsonian | 36:10 39:19 42:11 | 74:21 80:6,8,8,9 | 58:7 | | 159:16 | 44:13,22 45:4 57:17 | 88:24 95:19 103:12 | special | | social | 58:23,24 59:1 62:22 | 111:6 119:21 | 1:9 2:6,20 4:24 6:3 | | 105:14,17 107:5,9,15 | 62:22,23 66:25 | 122:14,14,15,15 | 27:11 | | 108:5 149:4 154:15 | 76:11 80:16 81:15 | 123:10 124:3,11 | specific | | 154:25 | 85:14 91:4 114:16 | 125:19 128:13 | 49:11 101:18 140:3 | | socialize | 115:22 117:12 | 129:2 144:16,18,21 | 148:3 178:15 | | 162:20,23 | 120:14 126:16 | 153:19 154:1,22 | specifically | | socialized | 127:13,16,18 | 156:2 167:10 | 14:2 43:13 54:7 | | 156:12 | 129:17 131:4 | 172:24 173:11 | 121:24 188:7 | | socially | 133:10 137:17 | 179:17 181:10 | specifics | | 64:11 160:13 162:6 | 142:11 143:17 | 191:19,20 194:15 | 46:17 | | society | 144:5 149:19 | sort | speculate | | 129:23 130:20,22 | 152:13 153:14 | 13:15 15:14 38:8,9 | 204:22 | | 190:16 210:19 | 152:15 155:14 | 38:25 39:1 43:4 | speculating | | sofa | 171:23 175:3 176:7 | 67:4 79:12 112:22 | 133:23 | | 113:14 | 178:7,10 180:2 | 116:10 130:4 | | | | 187:17 188:16 | 154:14,24 176:19 | speculation
205:10 206:21 | | sole | 193:24 196:19 | , | | | 170:9,20 | | sound
37:15 | Spencer | | solely | 197:6 202:2,23 | | 1:9 2:5,6 6:16 40:4,7 | | 44:14 | 203:1,6,19 211:13 | sounds | 109:12 165:21,24 | | somebody | 211:14 213:16 | 15:22 135:15 179:25 | 194:7,10 214:20 | | 6:23 17:3 45:8 57:2 | 214:12 | 188:24 206:21 | spend | | 63:15 80:5 83:25 | sometime | 209:21 | 3:19 12:3 22:14 | | 85:9 87:25 88:2,4 | 11:6 108:3 130:25 | source | 25:18 36:12 99:12 | | 91:1,16 92:22 112:9 | 132:4 168:16 | 126:11,17 | 99:12 211:2 | | 112:13 113:23 | sometimes | sources | spent | | 114:15 115:5 | 31:1 32:20 44:18 | 174:4 | 103:24 104:4 | | 118:16,19 174:1 | 112:2,4 117:7 | Southern | sphere | | 182:23 185:10,13 | 193:12 196:22,23 | 52:14,24 53:1,19 | 153:3 | | 195:1,1 202:25 | somewhat | 146:10 172:6,24 | spill | | 205:17,19 206:6 | 29:2 | 175:19 186:19 | 109:18 | ![](_page_90_Picture_1.jpeg) | spaka | started | ston | 31:11,12 62:9 77:1 | |------------------------------------|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------| | spoke
63:21 181:22 208:1 | | step
213:14,15 | 80:22 102:22 182:3 | | | 3:13 12:13 32:23 | ' | | | spoken | 38:6 56:25 57:1 | Steven | stretching | | 7:9 | 58:10,22 71:2 94:1 | 63:16 | 143:10 | | sponsors | 94:9 95:1,5,7 97:6 | stick | strip | | 160:10 | 99:15 111:18 115:7 | 102:15,20 | 120:14 | | sponsorship | 115:8,13 116:15 | still | strong | | 160:9 | 139:23 140:15 | 14:21 23:19 24:3,25 | 68:13 123:13 188:17 | | sports | 157:23 159:11 | 25:1 31:1,21,22 | struck | | 91:10 | 166:23 190:25 | 35:6 37:22 38:23 | 159:13 214:6 | | Squad | 207:2 210:13 | 42:23 49:16 56:18 | structure | | 28:22 | starting | 57:9 109:16,18 | 49:15 60:8 | | square | 2:15 111:20 | 188:1 | structured | | 117:22 141:25 | starts | sting | 60:9 | | St | 56:8 169:14 | 167:11 | structures | | 112:2,7,7,9 116:18 | state | stole | 47:18 | | stable | 19:20 26:9,10 41:22 | 57:19 | struggling | | 142:6 | 42:1 132:21 148:23 | stolen | 196:10 | | stables | 158:1 195:19 | 57:1,11,21 58:20 | study | | 142:7 | statement | 79:3,4 | 139:19 | | staff | 171:20 | stood | stuff | | 35:14,16 74:6 89:24 | statements | 143:4 | 20:4 82:10 112:16 | | 182:1 185:8 | 4:21 168:5 | stop | 157:22 184:4 | | | states | 75:2 124:1 214:17 | 211:21 | | stage
181:22 | 1:1,5 2:21 26:10 | | stunned | | | 192:11 | stopped | | | stain | | 30:24 32:18 37:22 | 54:1,1 | | 11:11 | stating | 40:11 47:10,12 48:1 | stupid | | Staley | 77:4 | 48:10 96:9 166:3 | 118:13 | | 67:10 70:19 | stay | 208:8,21 | subject | | stalkers | 21:19 32:20 40:17 | stories | 93:25 168:6 | | 17:1 | 47:4,5 49:2 68:16 | 173:1 196:22 | submit | | stand | 90:6 92:15 | story | 194:22 | | 212:12 | stayed | 9:15 29:1 63:24 | submitted | | standalone | 12:21,24 21:13,16 | 75:25 125:4 139:20 | 179:22 | | 82:23 | 23:17 29:14 | 140:9 144:24 | submitting | | standing | staying | 146:14,17,18,23 | 178:25 | | 143:19,21 | 25:22 61:8 88:6 90:9 | 158:22 164:19 | subpoena | | Stanley | steal | 165:18 166:16 | 41:20 42:1,2 | | 67:14 | 50:5 | 169:14 171:4 | subscribe | | start | stealing | 172:20 184:6 207:1 | 213:22 | | 2:13 3:16 8:5 37:25 | 58:6 80:5 | 212:4 | subsequent | | 65:15,23 71:5 75:24 | steals | strategies | 97:2 | | 85:13 98:16 132:24 | 57:10 | 61:6 | subsequently | | 138:2 147:9 163:19 | Stearns | strategy | 56:13 62:23 167:16 | | 164:19 166:18 | 15:1,1,23 55:17,18 | 60:22 | 168:21 | | 199:11 | 56:16,21 | Street | substage | | | | Succ | substage | | | | | | ![](_page_91_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | rage 50 | |----------------------|------------------------------|------------------------------|--------------------------------| | 181:23 | support | synced | 37:21 41:11,13 54:11 | | substance | 170:23 | 66:5 | 64:23 68:24 78:16 | | 105:5 | supporting | system | 82:19 99:17 102:4 | | substances | 165:9 | 55:10,11 | 121:21 163:12 | | 191:5 | suppose | 55.10,11 | 176:14 186:25 | | success | 33:9 38:7 43:4 | Т | 187:23 188:23 | | 54:12 | 127:20 187:11 | Т | 190:3,12,15,21 | | successful | 210:21 | 2:1 | 190:3,12,13,21 | | 88:24 | | table | 202:11,20 205:6 | | such | sure
3:20 11:5 12:12 15:8 | 112:16 114:15,19 | 207:23 208:7 | | 16:10 164:16 | 23:22 24:13 28:7 | tabs | 211:21 | | | | 175:22 | | | sucked | 36:2 37:5 39:13,14 | take | talking
4:3 15:7 18:7 22:20 | | 14:21 | 43:3,19 46:2 52:15 | 32:17 40:2,2,5 57:21 | | | suddenly | 55:3 62:20 64:12,16 | 61:19,20 76:8,9 | 25:19 28:7 30:3 | | 98:16 145:24 | 65:10 67:2 69:5,19 | 81:7 97:24 98:1 | 32:3 35:12,13,19 | | sue | 71:4 76:8 86:10 | 102:2 106:12 109:6 | 37:17,18 40:24 53:5 | | 67:4 | 91:20 93:22 98:16 | 102.2 100.12 109.0 | 53:6,20 59:24 61:2 | | sugarcoat | 98:19 100:21 114:7 | 165:16,20,22 166:3 | 61:22 62:8 64:4,24 | | 85:1 | 114:11 134:18 | 191:1,14 193:25 | 65:19,20 73:19 | | suggest | 136:18 152:20 | 191:1,14 195:25 | 75:13 77:5,10,13,16 | | 67:21 | 160:17 164:8 169:6 | 203:21 213:6,14 | 82:1,9 83:9 84:5 | | suggested | 172:25 180:14 | taken | 86:1,3 90:7 91:6,7 | | 98:2 127:3 134:12 | 187:5 190:13 194:2 | 70:8 82:2 136:18 | 92:20 97:22,23 | | suggesting | 194:4 196:12 204:3 | 139:18 143:16 | 102:6,8 109:16 | | 152:2 | 209:13,17 214:8 | 145:19 172:1,4 | 113:2 114:21,22,25 | | suicide | surprise | takes | 130:6 142:5 145:7,7 | | 69:25 193:23 205:5,8 | 42:16 | 78:12 96:3 140:8 | 166:4 168:18 175:4 | | 207:9 | surprised | 168:14 | 175:11 183:25 | | suit | 54:2 152:18 179:12 | | 197:16 203:11 | | 167:14,24 208:13,14 | 179:12 190:11 | taking
16:24 46:11 115:13 | 207:5 208:7,21 | | suited | surrogate | | 211:2 | | 22:5 | 39:1 | 137:15 166:20
191:1 | talks | | suits | surrounding | talk | 59:12 178:22 179:25 | | 166:20 169:5,6 171:3 | 12:22 | | Tallahassee | | 171:15 208:12 | surveillance | 4:10,11 7:6,20 8:6,8 | 96:6 | | 209:6 | 76:17,19,24 | 18:9 21:15 41:8 | tangentially | | sum | suspect | 54:6,11 62:1 74:19 | 59:23 | | 105:5 | 116:15 140:23 184:4 | 74:19,22,24 75:10 | tap | | summoned | swatches | 75:13 84:6 86:7,18 | 143:24 144:1,2 | | 137:3 | 44:7,25 | 86:23 87:23 99:23 | target | | sun | Sweden | 109:24 113:1 124:8 | 207:21 | | 212:1 | 130:13,14 | 125:15 129:4 170:2 | tasked | | Sunday | swept | 177:14 188:11 | 26:6,7 112:1 | | 141:9 | 213:20 | 202:5,21 211:22,25 | tea | | supervision | swore | 212:22,24 | 11:22,22 | | 215:5 | 212:12 | talked | teacher | | | • | | • | ![](_page_92_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | rage 55 | |-----------------------------|--------------------------|---------------------|--------------------------------------| | 55:2 | terrible | 18:18 29:5 52:10,20 | 151:4,6 155:6 | | tear | 76:13 | 52:24 53:19,19,21 | 159:12,13 162:8 | | 89:18 | | 59:9 60:12 69:4 | 165:12 166:17 | | | terribly
60:15 | | | | tears | | 70:15 72:4 75:8,19 | 169:5,9,14,16 171:2 | | 203:8 | testified | 76:14 81:14,14 | 171:13,23 172:3,5 | | technical | 212:13 | 82:15 83:11,12,14 | 176:6 184:19 | | 84:10 | testifies | 83:21,21,22 87:1,2 | 193:12 201:12 | | Ted | 122:25 | 87:2,5,14,14 90:23 | 202:20 207:24 | | 33:2,2,5,10,14 34:21 | testify | 91:17,18 92:15,18 | 208:7 213:6,7 | | 34:22 36:15 38:1,6 | 5:12,13 | 92:23,24,25 95:3 | 214:18 | | 40:17,18 43:1 44:11 | testimonial | 101:7 102:11,16 | theoretically | | 44:12,18,21 46:15 | 140:7 | 105:11,12,17 110:5 | 62:12 | | 150:10,12,20 | testimony | 117:9 121:14 | theorist | | 157:20,20 158:2,17 | 91:25 121:25 | 130:16 134:23 | 213:21 | | 159:1,11 169:3,9 | testosterone | 135:4,8,9,9,12 | therapists | | 171:5,9 181:20,21 | 115:7,13,22 116:3 | 139:18 149:12 | 167:5 | | 181:22 187:10 | 191:1,16 | 150:23,24 160:21 | therapy | | TEDx's | Thailand | 160:24 162:25 | 91:12 96:18 | | 181:23 | 96:17 | 163:8 167:1,6,10 | thereof | | telephone | than | 171:14 174:9 176:5 | 125:23 | | 53:21 174:5 186:9 | 5:7,14,21 30:6 61:7 | 176:5 177:22 | thereto | | tell | 96:7 137:20 138:18 | 189:12 196:6 | 215:11 | | 7:5,15,17 11:3 29:3 | 141:12 171:8 178:4 | 202:12 204:5 | there's | | 46:16 54:19 62:25 | 188:20 191:12 | themselves | 4:17 8:1 28:5,11 | | 75:21 76:4 85:9 | 206:5 213:15 | 90:3 | 44:17 47:6 58:14,16 | | 124:16 132:25 | thank | then | 59:11,16 68:25 | | 133:4 137:5 138:22 | 4:16 6:12,13 18:2 | 2:19,22 5:8,15,18 | 71:13,14 73:22 85:2 | | 138:23 139:3 146:5 | 28:15 135:17 | 10:14 12:14,18 | 86:2 87:21 88:18,21 | | 152:18,23 156:25 | 203:16 | 16:24 18:18 20:1,18 | 88:22 91:23,24 | | 165:7,11,13 178:18 | thanks | 26:15,16,18,22 | 106:22,25 109:20 | | 188:7 204:1 211:13 | 203:17 | 27:21 31:16 32:9,14 | 111:22 116:20 | | 212:12 | that'll | 37:22,25 38:23 | 117:15 119:2 | | telling | 213:6 | 40:19 42:12 43:3 | 120:10 122:5 | | 143:12 | theft | 45:1 46:12 49:7,7 | 123:15 131:1,3,13 | | tells | 96:12 | 49:11 51:15,19 | 131:18 135:11 | | 42:18 167:1 | their | 53:15 55:5 56:7 | 137:5 138:25 | | tens | 2:4 63:4,10,10 66:18 | 60:19 71:7 75:19 | 140:21 144:7,8,10 | | 35:19 | 66:25 68:10 70:25 | 76:9 85:18 88:15 | 146:8 149:19 | | term | 87:6,18 93:2,2 95:2 | 91:22 94:23 95:6,20 | 151:16,24 164:4,11 | | 84:10 | 97:25 98:1 111:24 | 96:2,15 97:1,5 | 164:24 167:18 | | terms | 116:22 120:18 | 99:19 100:3 102:12 | 171:19,25 172:21 | | 91:8 125:9 | 121:10 136:5 | 110:6,10 113:16 | 177:6 183:22 185:2 | | TerraMar | 155:14 163:21 | 120:6,23 123:2,4 | 188:17 190:13 | | 157:12,16,17,18 | 198:23 202:9 | 135:13 137:9,22 | 194:18 198:1 202:4 | | | | 120,12 15 16 21 | 202.7.204.7.12 | | 158:20,20,21 159:6 | them | 139:13,15,16,21 | 202:7 204:7,13 | | 158:20,20,21 159:6
159:7 | them
7:16,17,20 16:12 | 140:2 141:9 142:25 | 202:7 204:7,13
205:3,3,4,14 207:5 | ![](_page_93_Picture_2.jpeg) | 207:5,6 211:9,14 | 211:7,9 212:22 | 185:2 | 4:19 5:8,9,15 71:25 | |-----------------------|---------------------|-----------------------|----------------------| | 212:25 213:1,3 | thinking | through | 76:9 98:23 171:17 | | these | 20:17 27:22 62:18 | 33:6,15 34:18 64:13 | 202:9,12,20,21 | | 35:23 75:17 82:13,22 | 79:20 105:23 | 64:15,17 68:19 | 205:22 208:19 | | 83:16 85:22 87:5 | 152:15,17 175:4 | 88:25 95:20 97:4 | 211:3,7,24 212:2,3 | | 89:7 92:25 111:23 | 208:6 | 123:22 134:13 | 214:17 | | 128:11 139:19 | thinks | 135:18 156:4 | together | | 146:10,13 166:21 | 43:13 | 160:12,20 161:25 | 18:22 19:23 21:12,13 | | 172:18 173:1 | third | 169:17 172:8 | 23:21,25 24:1,3 | | 177:16 202:24 | 146:21 204:8,13 | 174:17 183:7 | 30:23 68:14 96:14 | | 215:8 | 205:1,23 | 192:24 194:15 | 103:24 104:4 | | they'd | 205.1,25 | 192.24 194.15 | 105:11,12 106:23 | | 33:9 152:5 | 112:2,7,9 116:18 | 207:23 210:8 212:1 | 132:10,20 135:5 | | 55.9 152.5
they'll | those | 213:7 | 136:1 137:8 138:5 | | 71:19 | 23:8 51:17 75:18 | throughout | | | | | 24:25 | 139:2 160:22,24 | | they're | 76:14,14 82:5,10,16 | | 162:20,25 177:20 | | 97:25 116:21 117:9 | 82:23 83:6,7,7,12 | thumb | 184:18 196:6 | | 117:10 | 84:4 93:23,24 98:25 | 186:15 | 199:24 | | they've | 107:4 110:1 120:4 | Thursday | told | | 147:17,18 | 121:7,20,22 122:9 | 40:9 109:14 166:1 | 3:15 5:18 10:20 | | thief | 133:15 143:9 151:3 | 194:8,12 214:21 | 12:10 14:23 15:9,12 | | 80:2 | 158:16 175:24 | tie | 16:23 17:14 21:23 | | thing | 176:9,10 179:13 | 11:9 144:9 169:14 | 24:1,9 29:1 42:14 | | 8:4 11:8 14:3 16:10 | 181:8 184:16 | ties | 45:7 47:2 53:22 | | 17:2 26:2 27:7 | 196:22 | 99:16 195:21,24 | 54:20 55:24 56:4,25 | | 42:13 54:10 62:11 | though | tight | 58:24 59:1 61:17,25 | | 71:17 77:23 80:24 | 31:21 112:3 195:23 | 142:16,18 | 82:1 97:24,25 | | 86:23 118:3 119:13 | 210:3 | till | 102:23 110:11 | | 127:16 131:1 136:3 | thought | 38:1 | 118:3,7,11 126:15 | | 136:14 140:3 145:1 | 12:20 14:3 17:6 | times | 126:19 127:9,14 | | 146:4 172:17 | 18:16,16,22 20:20 | 29:2 37:4 66:20 | 136:12,12 137:1,3 | | 174:15 175:4,21 | 26:24 38:13,16 46:3 | 103:25 104:2 | 159:23 168:9 170:9 | | 200:18 207:9 | 48:8 84:13 91:16 | 105:12 106:7 | 184:6 190:6 191:13 | | 213:13 | 93:6,21,23 116:16 | 107:23 117:8 | Tom | | things | 121:13 124:20 | 135:20 136:10 | 101:2 | | 11:4 16:11,16 26:8 | 136:1,3 138:20 | 139:22 156:19 | tomorrow | | 27:10 29:22 37:8,8 | 147:2 149:14 | 160:24 198:17 | 72:3 124:8 202:5,20 | | 38:22 42:8 44:8 | 154:19 155:2 | 199:13 | 211:3,6,18 212:24 | | 66:21 71:18 76:13 | 179:13 203:17 | timing | 213:7 214:22 | | 80:14 84:8 86:12 | 208:22 | 44:2 | ton | | 93:14 98:3 115:3 | thousand | tiny | 91:24,24 | | 117:15 128:11 | 151:4 | 66:15 141:25 | tonight | | 143:9 158:4,11,18 | three | Tito | 211:19 | | 160:6 172:18 | 37:4 70:19 79:14 | 87:17 | Tony | | 175:23 177:16 | 126:8 135:20 142:4 | today | 97:5,8,9 | | 185:2 205:6 209:10 | 146:13 158:24 | 2:8 3:21,23 4:9,11,13 | too | | | I | I | I | ![](_page_94_Picture_2.jpeg) | 54:2 66:24 68:13 | Tramp | 4:19 7:4 21:4 24:2,3 | 197:23 | |----------------------|----------------------|----------------------|--------------------| | 142:24 165:12 | 139:24 140:2 | 24:13,14 35:9 38:7 | twice | | 211:20 | transcribed | 44:14 56:9 59:15 | 37:4,6 106:8 115:2 | | took | 215:4 | 73:11,15 86:16 92:4 | 158:6 168:8 182:14 | | 5:7 39:10,10 73:21 | transcript | 92:7,9,17 108:18 | two | | 87:1 95:12 118:10 | 215:5 | 119:4,17,22 120:7 | 3:19 6:15,21 30:22 | | 139:19 144:24 | transcription | 134:14,16,19 153:7 | 34:15 58:5 64:23 | | 146:2 159:2 171:24 | 215:1,6 | 177:9 184:12 | 69:25 70:1,18,18 | | 171:24 191:3 | Transcriptionist | 207:14 210:1 215:5 | 79:13 90:11 110:24 | | 203:11 209:18 | 215:14 | truly | 113:12 117:15 | | 210:2 212:12 | travel | 129:22 | 126:7,20 135:10,20 | | | 20:24 21:17 87:13 | Trump | 142:19 146:10 | | top | | 9:23 10:5 100:7 | | | 85:17,19 144:2 | 88:8 90:14 95:5 | | 155:4 156:14,14,18 | | 190:22 | 111:18 112:3 189:8 | 104:11,14,17 105:1 | 158:6 167:23 174:4 | | topic | 197:10 199:24,25 | 106:18,23 108:1,8 | 185:2 | | 177:3 | 201:2 | 173:21 178:24,25 | type | | total | traveled | 179:14,17,18,21 | 20:19 55:10 76:17 | | 142:1 204:15 | 21:13 60:11 104:1 | 194:19,21 195:3 | 84:25 107:20 133:8 | | totally | 118:14 182:9 199:9 | trust | 162:2 174:15,23,25 | | 5:14 | traveling | 28:14,15,16 47:7 | 202:5 | | touch | 9:9 21:18,19 22:20 | 135:2 | types | | 17:20 37:7 52:13 | 43:1 111:16 185:12 | trusted | 51:17 175:6 | | 53:4,11 135:22 | 201:12 202:14 | 50:2 | typewriting | | 176:6,7 | tremendous | truth | 215:4 | | touched | 28:12 202:7 | 9:13 63:24 124:16 | typically | | 210:5 | trial | 143:12 152:23 | 186:5,12 | | touches | 86:13 121:23 124:18 | 168:3,7 205:14 | T-bonds | | 195:18 | 126:2 167:18 | 212:13 | 61:6 | | toward | 173:14 174:14 | truthful | U | | 116:6 | 175:25 176:14 | 5:1 | | | towards | 212:7 | try | Uh-huh | | 11:2 112:22,24 116:2 | trick | 17:3 51:14 80:4 92:3 | 53:13 55:19 56:22 | | trace | 151:24 | 124:7 143:2 152:25 | 82:7 117:18 121:5 | | 164:20 172:8 | tried | trying | 125:2 127:10 | | track | 35:9,9 69:22 71:15 | 14:21 57:2 62:21 | 159:25 173:16 | | 57:18 | 128:18,18,21,25 | 81:14 95:25 122:17 | ultimately | | trade | 133:8 | 136:2 151:25 | 46:22 63:5 208:18 | | 13:23 | trilingual | 155:17,18 163:3 | Um | | traded | 49:25 50:1 | 188:16 196:10 | 108:2 | | 62:14 | trip | 208:17 209:21,24 | under | | trading | 33:20 34:2 110:24,25 | 211:5 212:17 | 13:24 19:22 37:14 | | 55:6,10,12 | 140:15,22,23 200:4 | tub | 75:14,15 93:6 | | trained | 200:16 201:20 | 142:20 144:2 | 116:21 120:11,17 | | 94:16 122:9 123:1 | trips | turned | 170:15 212:1 215:4 | | training | 50:22,25 111:10,10 | 106:1 113:15 140:11 | underage | | 94:21 | true | TV | 76:6 85:11,22 87:3 | | 94:21 | true | TV | /0:0 85:11,22 87:5 | ![](_page_95_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | - | |-----------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|--------------------|----------------------| | 88:1 97:14 98:8 | 26:6 33:4 48:9 52:9 | 213:25 | 24:24 86:3 | | 119:7 120:14,19 | 52:9,12 53:15,20 | used | versus | | 126:2 167:4 | 93:23 118:12 | 98:22 123:4 139:17 | 137:10 139:2,4 | | underneath | 159:12 168:17 | 142:6 183:8 | very | | 97:6 | 169:5 210:9 213:4,9 | useless | 7:6,16 8:5,7 9:25 | | understand | untoward | 43:15 | 10:1,21 11:3,25 | | 3:20 5:20 7:13 16:22 | 35:12 | using | 13:21 16:20 18:9 | | 45:18 48:21 57:15 | untruth | 69:8 97:16 170:18 | 20:8 24:25 27:3 | | 59:22 60:3 61:12,14 | 132:23 | 192:18 | 30:5,5 31:14 33:1 | | 66:15 69:23 70:4 | unusual | Utah | 35:9,10,23 38:15,20 | | 83:5 84:8 86:6,24 | 11:23 131:8 | 26:13 | 38:24 39:7 43:15 | | 87:7,24 117:6 | unwell | utilize | 49:11,11 54:5,5,8 | | 120:15 121:7 | 85:11 | 170:22 | 55:4 56:18 59:11,13 | | 125:21 136:25 | up | utilized | 64:4,9 73:19,20,20 | | 148:9 169:25 188:6 | 7:11 8:9,24 10:20,22 | 169:22 | 91:13 92:1 93:17 | | 189:21 194:18 | 12:6 22:19 24:3 | utterly | 104:10,23 105:1,1 | | 204:3 212:4,4 | 26:6,18 40:11 44:5 | 120:6 | 110:13 117:14 | | understanding | 52:8,9 55:9 57:16 | U.S | 118:13 123:13 | | 22:9 23:21 52:19 | 65:25 70:2 84:11 | 1:10 187:13 | 130:1 134:23 | | 66:11 109:17 | 85:12 88:11 95:11 | | 142:18 146:12 | | 120:25 121:1 | 95:12 96:3 108:14 | V | 150:21 151:6,9,10 | | 174:16 210:10 | 118:12 123:13 | V | 151:10 152:13 | | 212:11 | 131:19 133:5,24 | 2:1 | 154:19 155:5 | | understood | 137:12 148:20 | Valley | 163:20 183:8 | | 23:24 118:16 132:5 | 158:17,18 159:11 | 183:3,5 | 187:18 188:17,17 | | 184:10 188:5 | 159:12 169:5 171:9 | value | 190:10,19 196:12 | | 191:10 | 171:15 173:18 | 207:5 | 196:21 197:24 | | unequivocally | 174:1,1 184:17 | Vance | 207:21 211:4 | | 78:5,6 | 192:14 203:20 | 34:14 | via | | unhappy | 207:23 210:8,9 | various | 140:20 | | 99:3 | 212:25 213:4 | 44:8 169:12 | Vic | | unintelligible | update | vast | 144:1 | | 29:7 | 185:16,24 | 139:11 197:16 | victims | | uninteresting | upon | Vatican | 82:14,17,19,20 83:10 | | 210:24 | 5:9 197:7 | 200:17 | 167:4 170:14 | | United | upset | vehicle | 172:21 173:2 | | 1:1,5 2:21 192:11 | 89:18 | 55:12,12 | Victorian | | unless | us | vein
16:16 | 142:15 | | 137:3 | 3:23 5:18 26:15 30:1 | | video | | unnecessarily | 54:9 159:2 165:7 | verbatim
15:10 | 76:6,12,17 78:11 | | 213:20 | 184:6 199:3 204:1 | verifiable | 82:1 83:24 | | unreliable | 204:25 213:6 | 53:10 | videos
82:9 | | 96:6 | use | verify | view | | until | 4:9,13 5:11 38:20
43:14 111:2 121:25 | 17:4,11 | 27:1 122:4 193:23 | | 8:9,9,24 12:6 20:11
22:24 23:18 24:4 | 128:2 176:5 209:25 | version | 205:10 210:10 | | 22:24 25:18 24:4 | 128:2 170:5 209:25 | | 205.10 210.10 | | | | | | ![](_page_96_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | 2 | |-----------------------|----------------------|--------------------|----------------------| | viewed | 68:15 69:23 70:15 | 39:2 42:25 43:1 | weddings | | 38:8 | 75:10 77:3 82:23 | 44:14 45:3 46:14 | 149:17,22 | | views | 84:20,24 85:8 86:7 | 52:3 56:17 60:1 | week | | 210:16 | 86:18,24 87:23 90:6 | 63:6 66:1,6,7 73:9 | 6:14,20 114:22 213:9 | | VIII's | 92:16 99:11 101:16 | 97:3 102:10 111:19 | weekend | | 200:19 | 104:16,18 105:2 | 112:15 126:18,23 | 140:3,4,12 | | Villafana | 107:12 108:21 | 128:20 135:21,21 | weeks | | 146:11 169:20 170:8 | 111:2 114:13 115:2 | 150:7 169:6 178:11 | 6:15,21 | | 170:11 | 120:15 121:21 | 185:9 188:14 | Weinstein | | Vineyard | 124:7,7,8,15,16,17 | 207:19 208:10,24 | 161:15,16 162:3,18 | | 133:13,14,16 156:4 | 125:9 129:3 131:20 | watch | weird | | DOJ REDACTION | 133:10 134:7 | 70:1 98:2 | 17:6 46:3 135:25 | | | 135:19 138:4 | water | 167:17 | | | 142:11 148:10 | 140:9 203:21 | went | | | 151:18 152:23,25 | Wax | 11:24 17:22 26:12,13 | | visit | 153:1 155:3,17 | 5:17 | 33:4 37:5,10 44:18 | | 8:23 26:8 160:25 | 157:18 158:18 | way | 44:21,24 46:13 | | 198:22 | 159:15 165:16 | 8:9 18:11 25:14 | 52:20,22 66:15 | | visited | 166:10 170:3 178:1 | 26:24,25,25 27:13 | 104:2 106:1,7,10 | | 112:6 | 178:18 180:12,22 | 28:24 39:3,5 57:3 | 109:25 110:9 131:6 | | visits | 187:11 188:11 | 62:18 75:3 85:1 | 131:7,10,11 139:9 | | 50:20 92:23 | 189:13 194:1 | 87:10 88:23 93:17 | 139:15,24,25 140:1 | | vital | 197:19 203:4 204:2 | 107:21 121:13 | 140:2,13,19 149:10 | | 49:24 | 204:21,21 207:4 | 122:5 136:14 | 149:24,25 151:1 | | volunteer | 209:15 210:4,6 | 140:10 141:19 | 155:3 158:13,13,14 | | 8:4 | 211:9,22 212:7,19 | 143:3,15 144:11,13 | 161:5,6 163:6 | | 0.4 | 212:24 | 145:15 148:7 | 168:20,22 170:4 | | W | wanted | 149:12 157:4 | 174:3,17 181:20,21 | | W | 6:22 7:15 9:14 16:18 | 159:12 171:7.7 | 182:13 189:10 | | 2:1 | 17:25 27:8 32:4,11 | 174:17 179:21 | 199:10,10 200:8,16 | | wait | 38:5 110:11 112:4 | 184:23 187:4,15 | 201:7,20 212:7 | | 123:2 144:13 | 115:15 136:17 | 195:8 207:23 | weren't | | Waitt | 140:18,25 158:25 | 210:24 212:7 | 17:4 23:25 32:19 | | 33:2,2 150:10,12 | 174:8 206:9 207:18 | 213:21 | 63:12,13 122:13 | | 169:3 171:5 | 211:24 | ways | 182:19 186:20 | | wake | wants | 86:25 185:2 | 187:14 193:12 | | 85:12 | 42:19 94:22 115:5 | wealth | Werner | | walk | 145:10 | 36:13 54:17 | 67:6 | | 91:11 | War | wealthy | West | | want | 13:14 | 72:7 171:8 | 39:18 | | 3:19 8:1 12:2 16:9,16 | warlords | wearing | Wexner | | 19:5,14 28:6,10 | 127:13 | 11:9 95:9 147:12 | 21:11 59:12 60:24 | | 36:9 39:18 46:20 | warrant | wedding | 61:2,9 62:6 63:3 | | 50:13,14,14 52:11 | 96:13,16 | 149:21,24,25 150:3 | 64:22 66:14 70:18 | | 54:6,10 59:21 62:25 | wasn't | 150:15,19 153:24 | we'd | | 63:11 65:9 67:1 | 24:19 32:10 33:10 | 153:25,25 154:3 | 10:22 | | | | | | ![](_page_97_Picture_2.jpeg) | we'll | 94:18 95:9,17 96:22 | 208:18 209:23 | 191:25 201:19 | |--------------------------------------|---------------------|----------------------------------|----------------------------------------| | 4:10 22:16,18,18 | 96:22 99:3 104:2 | Whereas | 204:14 205:2,24 | | 40:1,2,23 49:8 | 107:10 111:21 | 111:19 | 206:4,5 208:18 | | 56:24 72:2 74:24 | 113:10 119:23 | wherever | 210:2 | | 75:13 86:23 102:1,2 | 125:9 126:8 128:16 | 49:18 57:11 71:6 | while | | 109:6,7 125:5,6 | 131:1,4 136:17,19 | 79:15 83:11 185:13 | 8:7 13:6 55:16,16 | | 139:22,22 147:9 | 139:8 142:19 | wherewithal | 58:24 177:3,5 | | 164:19 165:12 | 148:24 163:4 | 128:1 | whilst | | 167:22 202:20 | 168:10 169:17,19 | whether | 58:13 60:15 169:2 | | 211:18 212:23 | 175:6 185:8 187:6,7 | 13:8 15:11,11 28:23 | 214:2 | | 213:7 | whatnot | 62:17 67:16 75:12 | 217.2 | | we're | 172:19,23 173:15 | 75:16 78:18 86:24 | 151:2,12 | | 2:8 3:24 4:3 6:18 | 175:8 | 88:4 102:24,25,25 | who | | 13:6 14:7 15:7 18:7 | whatsoever | 103:4,16 106:9 | 8:19 10:19,25 15:20 | | 18:15 22:14 25:18 | 84:23 113:5 163:22 | 108:13,18 113:24 | 16:4,5 17:11 23:20 | | 25:21 28:7 35:19 | 171:4 | 116:21 119:24 | 23:20 26:21 31:14 | | 36:11 40:4,7 58:13 | what's | | | | | 3:17 4:12,21 50:8 | 120:16,19 122:5
127:16 147:18 | 34:1,8 38:15 43:16
43:21 49:24 50:1 | | 62:8 64:4,24 65:19 | 66:10 67:7 78:22 | | | | 65:20 69:15 75:13
77:25 82:1 84:5 | | 150:14 155:13 | 55:4 66:18 67:6
72:20,23 75:14 | | | 93:19 104:13 111:5 | 156:12 157:4 | , | | 91:6 92:19 95:14 | 138:17 155:7,10 | 160:15 161:8 | 85:10,11 87:6 91:16 | | 99:11,11,12 102:8 | 168:4 171:16 184:8 | 162:16 163:15 | 93:1 94:19 96:10 | | 109:16 110:17 | 184:9 188:11 | 164:12 168:24 | 97:1,4,23 98:20 | | 113:2 114:20,22,25 | whenever | 179:21 182:8 | 100:8,8,19 110:2 | | 138:8,11 164:1,1 | 45:15 48:5,9 51:12 | 183:14 184:24 | 111:1 112:11,13 | | 165:22,24 168:12 | 71:3 95:17 105:25 | 188:23 189:13,13 | 119:6 123:6 127:3 | | 168:18 169:13 | 159:12 | 192:9,13,14 193:23 | 133:7 134:12 | | 175:3,15 176:13 | when's | 193:24 198:21 | 140:15 145:10 | | 177:3,4 191:17 | 107:25 207:25 | 202:13,24 207:8 | 149:8,11 151:20 | | 194:7 197:15 211:8 | where | 213:2 | 153:25 160:11 | | 212:23 | 6:8 8:16,16,17 10:2 | which | 162:13,13,14 | | we've | 17:1 21:6 22:19,19 | 4:10,18 8:25 11:9 | 166:23 167:5 | | 3:14 39:23 57:7 | 24:20 33:10,23 38:3 | 12:16 19:8,15 20:11 | 170:12 173:19 | | 177:5 181:12 | 39:15 40:11 42:20 | 22:4,5,6 24:23 25:3 | 174:1 176:20 | | 190:12,13,15 | 43:2 51:2 57:1,7 | 32:11 38:20 43:13 | 177:19 178:15,16 | | 202:11,20 207:22 | 65:25 66:4 68:16 | 48:14 51:4 57:25 | 181:7 183:9 185:8 | | 211:21 212:1 | 76:21 79:7,8 106:6 | 59:12 70:1 74:23,24 | | | whatever | 111:15 113:9 | 75:2,18 78:16 84:5 | 195:3 198:5 201:18 | | 4:11 7:21 14:20 | 118:19 122:10,18 | 90:11 99:15 102:9 | 202:14,14 205:10 | | 16:25 18:8 19:22 | 127:9 139:23 | 109:25 113:16 | 206:8,8 210:19,20 | | 20:5,22 28:2 29:9 | 142:13 143:24 | 120:6 123:4 131:8 | 212:12 | | 29:13,13 31:2 36:5 | 144:24 145:8,11,16 | 133:15 141:2 | whoa | | 40:20,20 44:7 48:23 | 149:6 166:6 173:6 | 142:17 143:2 | 18:14 | | 58:19 62:13 63:10 | 174:9,19 176:2,4 | 145:16 174:14 | whoever | | 63:19,23 83:17 | 179:14 195:9 200:5 | 178:24 184:19 | 58:19 97:5 182:2 | | 91:14,15 93:16 | 202:22 205:18 | 185:19,21 191:16 | 185:11,12 | | | | | I | ![](_page_98_Picture_2.jpeg) | | | | - | |----------------------|----------------------|---------------------|----------------------| | whole | 139:23 153:23 | 149:8 156:22 | 75:22 108:10 | | 24:12 38:2 80:24 | 175:14 205:19,19 | 202:14 | 118:15 | | 84:9 128:2 136:3,14 | 211:8,20 214:20,22 | wonderful | worried | | 140:15 143:3,20,20 | willingly | 155:2 178:10 | 207:20 | | 144:24 145:1 | 98:25 | wondering | worry | | 183:10 | wired | 188:23 | 46:11,12 101:16 | | whomever | 76:16 | Wonderland | worse | | 89:8 | wiring | 143:9 | 90:9 | | whose | 76:15 | won't | worth | | 54:23 58:12 69:3 | wise | 65:6 | 205:20 214:9 | | 162:14 | 47:20 | 05.0 | wouldn't | | who's | wished | 158:10 | 26:9 31:13 61:20 | | 31:14 67:12 70:23 | 24:9 | woodwork | 67:3 69:7 71:4 | | 72:6 87:25 88:1,2 | | | | | | wit | 197:22 | 101:15 103:2 | | 126:5 130:1 173:20 | 74:8 | word | 113:20 126:19 | | 183:1,9 | within | 8:23 40:13 54:2 | 142:20 162:1,2 | | why | 59:25 90:9 118:18 | 67:24 68:13 82:24 | 164:4 182:17 | | 8:14 14:24 16:9 22:9 | 159:3 169:25 | 97:17 98:22 104:18 | 186:12,13 190:10 | | 30:21 34:16,17 35:3 | without | 111:2,4,5,6,9,22 | would've | | 43:25 46:17 50:11 | 33:16 82:15 91:11 | 127:20 128:3 | 34:13,14,21 39:6 | | 65:3,6 73:12,14,15 | 131:6,7,8,10 134:5 | 135:14 138:1,2,18 | 43:3 45:12 50:1 | | 73:25,25 94:4,4 | 137:11 146:15 | 162:9 192:19 | 64:10 73:7 75:18 | | 99:6 102:19,19 | 184:13 | 195:16 209:20 | 91:20 96:24,25 | | 123:23,23 128:14 | witness | words | 98:10 104:6 126:15 | | 128:15 130:24 | 5:8,13,15 52:6 167:7 | 4:13 94:16 122:4,9 | 126:15,22 128:18 | | 138:19,20 140:8,9 | 212:12 | 123:22 197:8 | 128:21 160:18,19 | | 140:10,13,14 | witnessed | work | 182:5 185:1 195:13 | | 141:11 146:15,16 | 88:6 107:13,16,20 | 9:14,19 11:17 64:19 | 203:6 206:9,10 | | 147:7 148:13 | 111:13 | 75:20 142:20 146:7 | 207:18,21 | | 150:18,22 156:6 | witnesses | 158:3 | wow | | 165:13 170:4 171:9 | 121:23 | worked | 11:11 136:24 | | 187:13 188:7 | woke | 13:8 14:25 23:12 | write | | 205:17 206:14 | 70:2 | 38:18,23 43:16 55:5 | | | 212:4 214:17 | woman | 66:18 72:7 74:6 | writing | | widely | 58:14,17,20 67:8 | 93:1 102:8 158:2,10 | | | 75:4 | 71:14,14 72:6 112:8 | 158:10 162:13 | written | | wife | 117:24 120:19 | 170:11 | 181:8 | | 11:2 104:23 123:7,9 | 123:3 180:1 | working | wrong | | 123:20 156:15 | women | 9:2,4,17 35:6,10 | 27:21 40:13 88:18 | | 162:8 199:11 | 25:5 74:25 75:5,14 | 37:20,22 54:23 55:2 | 193:22 | | will | 81:8 82:9,11,13 | 55:17 56:20 57:9 | wrote | | 6:10 24:13 32:21 | 83:10 84:6 85:22 | 96:8 159:23 170:14 | 69:4,10,21 145:17,18 | | 38:9 39:22 57:20,20 | 87:3,12 89:3,6 98:8 | works | 192:4 | | 58:12 71:15 107:11 | 110:2 112:25 | 6:19 202:25 | W2 | | 109:7 111:14 124:8 | 116:21 117:9 119:6 | world | 48:13,14 | | 128:19 131:4 | 120:17 121:3,7 | 13:14 18:20 59:23 | | | | 1 | I | 1 | ![](_page_99_Picture_2.jpeg) | Y | 40:3 59:18 71:11 | 77:5,10,13,16 78:18 | 118:25 186:17 | |----------------------|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------| | | 84:15 104:21 | 80:5,7 83:23 93:25 | 09 | | yada | yesterday | 98:21,22 100:21 | 48:2,4 119:1 186:17 | | 136:19,19,20 | 71:16 | 101:17,17 107:1,1 | 207:2 | | yay | yet | 115:14 116:23 | 207.2 | | 137:8 | 213:15 | 124:4 125:10 130:6 | 1 | | yeah | | | 10 | | 6:17 8:19 16:6 17:15 | yoga | 135:4,5 142:5 145:7 | 20:3,3 23:22,23 | | 17:21 18:12,19 | 87:11,16 111:17 | 145:7,12 148:4 | 36:19 38:2 48:9 | | 22:23 40:1,1,16 | 118:1 | 153:13,14 164:2,21 | 50:7 51:5 207:24 | | 43:9 49:4 56:11 | York | 166:8 174:12 175:2 | | | 57:14,14 60:3 63:1 | 2:7 9:12,20,22 10:15 | 175:4,5,17 185:18 | 10-year | | 65:8 67:11 69:20 | 12:15 15:5 19:7 | 204:1 206:19 208:5 | 93:16 | | 70:6,12 71:22 86:4 | 22:21 31:6,7,10 | 212:5 | 10:12 | | 88:17 94:3 99:25 | 51:7,20 52:14,25 | you've | 2:10 | | 113:11 116:4,7 | 53:2,19 62:7 73:6 | 3:16 13:16 63:11 | 10:56 | | 117:21 119:20 | 77:6 81:19 116:20 | 70:8 73:18 81:22 | 40:5,6 | | 120:2,24 121:17 | 125:24 136:13 | 82:18 84:3 93:18 | 11 | | 122:2,14,16 125:21 | 137:11 140:17 | 99:18 102:9 115:25 | 159:11 | | 129:16,19 134:18 | 172:6,25 175:19 | 116:8 187:20 204:4 | 11th | | 137:14 143:8 145:9 | 179:6 199:12,25 | 211:6 212:3 | 140:12 | | 147:13 151:24 | young | | 11:07 | | 152:1 160:5,23 | 74:25 75:4 84:6 89:2 | Z | 40:6,9 | | 161:5 162:15 165:5 | 89:2 94:16 98:7 | Zeff | 12:15 | | 165:19,20 178:2 | 110:2,2 116:20 | 43:20,22 | 109:6,11 | | 179:12 180:21 | 125:12 149:8 | | 12:59 | | 188:10 194:2,3,4 | 156:22 210:20 | \$ | 109:11,14 | | 197:12 199:5 | younger | \$10 | 13 | | 206:19 207:3 211:1 | 210:20 | 169:4,10 171:2 | 152:13 | | | yourself | \$100 | 14 | | 214:13,13,16 | 72:9 119:8 143:10,15 | 62:13 | 94:19 | | year | yourselves | \$12,000 | 15 | | 19:2 27:20 35:22 | 123:11 | 19:15 | 70:2 94:20 | | 47:15,21 97:19 | you'd | \$25 | 15-year | | yearly | 142:12 143:19 | 205:20 | 64:25 93:15 | | 47:16 | | \$25,000 | 16 | | years | 173:22 | 27:20 28:1,18 47:14 | 210:9 | | 12:5 14:6 15:7 18:25 | you'll | 48:8 176:7 | 17 | | 20:23 23:22,23 | 11:1 71:24 95:21 | \$250,000 | 119:25 210:9 | | 30:17 48:7 64:20 | you're | 47:24 48:8 | 119:25 210:9 | | 69:25 70:1 84:4 | 13:17,18 14:3 18:3,3 | \$5 | 75:15,15 89:7 93:6 | | 110:24 112:18 | 18:4 25:18 27:8,10 | 61:18,19,20 | , | | 120:9 129:5 137:16 | 30:4,4,4,5 31:16,17 | 01110,17,20 | 116:22 120:12,17 | | 160:22 168:22 | 35:4,4,5,5 37:20,22 | 0 | 210:9 | | 181:15 184:21 | 38:3 40:24 47:13 | 04 | 1990 | | 204:5 | 53:5 59:4 60:24 | 40:15 | 8:20,24 9:4,20 10:4 | | Уер | 66:20 70:14 71:5,5 | 08 | 154:7 | | | 71:12 73:22 75:12 | | 1991 | | | | | 1 | ![](_page_100_Picture_2.jpeg) | 8:12 10:15 11:6,7 | 2004 | 3 | 8 | |----------------------|--------------------|----------------------|----------------------| | 12:6,14 14:19 | 39:9 | 3:10 | 80s | | 1992 | 2005 | 194:12 | 103:6,9 130:10,11 | | 18:13 | 39:9 40:21 44:25 | 3:34 | 164:5 | | 1996 | 172:1 | 214:23,24 | 80th | | 20:12 110:8 | 2006 | 30 | 140:4,11 141:1 | | 1999 | 40:21 120:4 | 11:2 15:7 180:17 | 140.4,11 141.1 | | 30:19,24 154:9 | 2007 | 30s | 9 | | , | 118:25 169:15 | 87:6 111:24 | 9/11 | | 2 | 186:17 | 35 | 31:5,7,8,17 | | 2:03 | 2008 | 180:17 | 9:45 | | 165:22,23 | 48:2 121:2 169:18 | 35-year | 191:8 | | 2:16 | 207:2 | 18:8 | 90 | | 165:25 | 2009 | 10.0 | 48:9 65:16 160:3 | | 2:53 | 35:6 36:15,16 38:2 | 4 | 90s | | 194:8,9 | 48:9 50:7 51:5 | 40s | 18:4 25:21 28:8 30:4 | | 20s | 166:17,18,19,24,25 | 117:17 | 32:7 48:9 59:5 | | 87:6,18 91:2 111:24 | 167:1 169:2 207:24 | 44 | 65:16,17,20 68:18 | | 111:24 116:22 | 2010 | 121:3,7 125:15 173:2 | 68:19 86:1 87:5,10 | | 200 | 33:4 36:16 157:18 | | 90:9 91:6,7 93:21 | | 159:3 | 159:11 | 5 | 97:12 100:10,11 | | 2000 | 2012 | 5 | 101:2,7,11,19 102:5 | | 30:19 31:20 94:2,3,6 | 152:13 | 180:14,15 | 102:14 104:11,20 | | 95:15,18,18,20 | 2015 | 5,000 | 109:17 111:12,15 | | 121:2 129:4 134:8 | 208:3 | 143:14 | 112:22,24 114:24 | | 145:19,19 149:5,18 | 2016 | 50 | 115:9,13 116:2 | | 197:18 | 208:2,3,3 | 168:22 | 117:8 118:2 149:19 | | 2000s | 2017 | 50th | 160:4 184:23 | | 7:9 28:9 68:20,22 | 208:2,3 | 177:8,14,25 179:22 | 190:25 197:20,21 | | 94:1 108:4 109:18 | 2019 | 52 | 210:13 | | 132:13 134:9 | 32:14 50:7 51:5 | 173:13 174:13 | 900 | | 149:15 176:17 | 213:4 | 175:15,18 | 141:25 | | 182:13 184:23 | 2025 | | 91 | | 210:13 | 1:2 5:18 | 6 | 20:22 | | 2000's | 24 | 60th | 92 | | 195:14 | 1:2 | 177:13 | 20:22 91:21 | | 2001 | 24th | 6000 | 93 | | 32:14,17 94:11,25 | 2:9 40:9 109:14 | 158:12,15 | 23:18 91:21 197:24 | | 134:8 139:8 145:19 | 166:1 194:8,12 | 65th | 94 | | 2002 | 214:21 | 31:12 | 23:18 24:4,6 26:7 | | 80:2 95:15 98:17 | 25 | 7 | 197:24 | | 134:8 201:25 | 174:10 | | 95 | | 2003 | 25th | 71st | 65:17 | | 33:1 38:1 40:15 | 214:22 | 31:11 62:9 77:1 | 96 | | 79:21,22 177:8 | 26 | 80:22 102:22 182:3 | 22:24 32:9 36:9 | | 201:25 | 104:2 | 1 | | ![](_page_101_Picture_2.jpeg) | 65:17 111:12 116:5
97
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32:9 116:5 | | | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|--|--| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ![](_page_102_Picture_2.jpeg)