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United States Department of Justice INTERVIEW OF: GHISLAINE MAXWELL
DATE: July 25, 2025
# APPEARANCES:
For the United States: Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General Diego Pestana, Acting Associate Deputy Attorney General Spencer Horn, FBI Special Agent Mark Beard, Deputy U.S. Marshal
For Ghislaine Maxwell:
David Markus
Leah Saffian
Melissa Madrigal
| 1 INTERVIEW 1 additional memories just for clarity. I believe I 2 *** 2 said that I couldn't think of anybody who I may h 3 SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is 3 asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I 4 Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is 3 asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I 5 Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in 5 in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to addres 6 Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a 6 that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging 7 recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell. 8 And also but I couldn't remember anyor 8 TODD BLANCHE: Good morning. 10 So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I 9 How are you? 9 and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim 10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning. 10 So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I 11 TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer 11 just don't I don't remember anybody that I wou 12 agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a 12 have. But it's not impossible that I might have 13 | ss
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| 2***2said that I couldn't think of anybody who I may H3SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is3asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I4Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is3asked from Mar-a-Lago, but then I realized that I5Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in6that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging6Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a7recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.7recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.7because that seems weird under the circumstance8TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.8And also but I couldn't remember anyor9How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I wou12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. Ther | ss
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| 3SPENCER HORN: Good morning. It is4Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is5Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in6Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a7recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.8TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.9How are you?9GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's14exactly the same document and you'll see your15signature. If you can just initial right to the left16of right here.17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? | ss
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| - Friday, July 25th, the time is 9:24 a.m. My name is
- Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in
- Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a
- recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
- How are you?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good. So the proffer
- agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a
- place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- glace on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- the exactly the same document and you'll see your
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- Was the allegation at least is that I met in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to addreate that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging
- because that seems weird under the circumstance
- And also but I couldn't remember anyoor
- and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim
- So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
- thave. But it's not impossible that I might have
- asked someone from there.
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know
- exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think
- what you said yesterday is different than what you
- just said. So, yes. There's
| s.
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| - Spencer R. Horn. I'm the Assistant Special Agent in
- Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a
- recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
- How are you?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good. So the proffer
- agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a
- place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- exactly the same document and you'll see your
- signature. If you can just initial right to the left
- of right here.
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- in Mar-a-Lago and so I felt that I needed to addreate that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging
- because that seems weird under the circumstance
- And also but I couldn't remember anyoor
- add maybe, you know, it's a long period of time
- So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
- thave. But it's not impossible that I might have
- asked someone from there.
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know
- exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think
- what you said yesterday is different than what you
- just said. So, yes. There's
| s.
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| 6Charge of FBI New York. And we are here for a
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.6that. And I didn't want to leave that hanging
because that seems weird under the circumstance
And also but I couldn't remember anyor
and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim
109How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim
1010GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.
1110So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I
just don't I don't remember anybody that I wou
have. But it's not impossible that I might have
asked someone from there.13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
signature. If you can just initial right to the left
of right here.1416of right here.
OHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?1417GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17 | s.
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| - recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
- How are you?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.
- TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer
- agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a
- place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's
- genature. If you can just initial right to the left
- of right here.
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?
- TODD BLANCHE: Here's a
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't think
- the same document and you'll see your
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't think
- the same document and you'll see your
- the same document and you'll see your
- TODD BLANCHE: I don't think
- the same document and you'll see your
- the same document and you'll see your
- the same document and you'll see your
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| 8TODD BLANCHE: Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.8And also but I couldn't remember anyour9How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of time10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | e
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| 9How are you?9and maybe, you know, it's a long period of tim10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | e.
Id |
| 10GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Good morning.10So the issue is not that I'm trying to not say, but I11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | ld |
| 11TODD BLANCHE: Good. So the proffer11just don't I don't remember anybody that I would12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | , |
| 12agreement we signed yesterday, I just there's a12have. But it's not impossible that I might have13place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's13asked someone from there.14exactly the same document and you'll see your14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | , |
| 13 place on it for us to all kind of initial. It's 13 asked someone from there. 14 exactly the same document and you'll see your 14 TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know 15 signature. If you can just initial right to the left 15 exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think 16 of right here. 16 what you said yesterday is different than what you 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? 17 just said. So, yes. There's | |
| 14TODD BLANCHE: I don't I don't know15signature. If you can just initial right to the left1516of right here.1617GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17 | |
| 15signature. If you can just initial right to the left15exactly what you said yesterday, but I don't think16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?1717just said. So, yes. There's | |
| 16of right here.16what you said yesterday is different than what you17GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here?17just said. So, yes. There's | |
| 17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Here? 17 just said. So, yes. There's | ı |
| | |
| 110 TODD DI ANCHE, Dight thora 110 CHIGI ADJE MANWELL, OL. 11 | |
| 18 TODD BLANCHE: Right there. 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I just | anted |
| 19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , it's okay. 19 to be I just didn't want to feel that I had said | |
| 20 TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Markus will 20 no to something and that it and | |
| 21 DAVID MARKUS: Yes. 21 TODD BLANCHE: DOUREDACTION definited | |
| 22 TODD BLANCHE: initial as well. Thank 22 has said that she was working at Mar-a-Lago and | |
| 23 you. 23 you received a treatment of her from her at sort | e |
| 24 And just to kind of before we get 24 point, and that you recruited her to meet | |
| 25 going, I'll just say that exactly the same folks that 25 Mr. Epstein. | |
| Page 218 Pag | e 220 |
| 1 were here when we met yesterday are here today. So 1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | |
| 2 there's no I'm not going to do formal 2 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know, affirma | tively, |
| 3 introductions, because it's exactly the same group of 3 whether that's true or false, or do you just not have | |
| 4 folks. 4 a memory either way? | |
| 5 So we're continuing, Ms. Maxwell, our 5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't b | elieve |
| 6 discussion of yesterday. And the same the same 6 it's true. But I know that I did go to spas and if I | |
| 7 kind of rules apply. If you we'll take breaks, if 7 met someone, I did ask if they're (indiscernible) | |
| 8 you need to talk to Mr. Markus or your lawyers, no 8 so I don't in the realms of possibility, it could | |
| 9 absolutely no problem. Just let me know. I'll try 9 have, but I have no memory of it. | |
| 10 to ask my questions in a coherent manner, but if 10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | |
| 11 there's anything that I say that's confusing, 11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I don't be | ieve |
| 12 definitely interrupt me. 12 that that it's how it went down, but I don't want | |
| 13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I will. Thank you. 13 to | |
| 14 TODD BLANCHE: So I think the easiest 14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I want to ta | k |
| 15 thing to start with is, is there anything that we 15 about we talked a little bit yesterday about the | |
| 16 talked about yesterday that we're going to go 16 financial part of your relationship with Mr. Epster | 1, |
| 17 through some more names. I think that we that's 17 kind of being on payroll, for lack of a better word | |
| 18 one of the places that we that we interrupted, 18 for many, many years, starting around \$25,000 and | 1 |
| 19 just because there's a lot of names. 19 ending up at around \$250,000 per year. | |
| 20 But aside from additional names, is there 20 There's as you know, from your trial, | |
| 21 anything that you wanted to kind of follow up on that 21 there's banking information that shows a ton of m | ney |
| 22 we talked about yesterday or anything that you 22 being sent to you from Mr. Epstein over the years | |
| 23 thought maybe you remember more of or not? 23 And I think totaling something like | |
| 24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some more names did 24 \$30 million, something like this. What's what's | |
| 25 come to me in the night, and I did have some 25 the why was that money sent to you? Like, where | t |
2 (Pages 217 to 220)
| | Page 221 | | Page 223 |
|----|-------------------------------------------------------|----|-------------------------------------------------------|
| | | | |
| 1 | was that for? | 1 | disputing all of it. |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, first of all, I | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: But when you said let's |
| 3 | don't I dispute the characterization that the | 3 | go back and look. Why would why did money have to |
| 4 | money was sent to me. | 4 | go into your accounts or account that was controlled |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So tell me what I | 5 | by others, but in your name to, like, purchase a |
| 6 | am stuck with the witnesses at trial and what was | 6 | helicopter? |
| 7 | said at trial on that issue. So what what what | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , that's a very good |
| 8 | is the what do you dispute about that? | 8 | question. I don't I'm not sure I know the answer |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe I | 9 | to that. I don't. |
| 10 | don't have full recollection. I'm not even sure I | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: So let me ask this maybe a |
| 11 | ever saw what they accused me of, but my belief is | 11 | different way that gets to the issue, right? So the |
| 12 | that that money also contained money that was for a | 12 | accusation by the government, based upon the evidence |
| 13 | helicopter, for instance, that I never owned and I | 13 | they collected, is that Epstein paid you millions and |
| 14 | was never mine. And | 14 | millions of dollars over the years. |
| 15 | DAVID MARKUS: In other words, money was | 15 | And the reason why he paid you that is |
| 16 | sent to you that you then used to purchase things | 16 | because you were performing an extraordinary service |
| 17 | or | 17 | for him by recruiting young women, many of whom were |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I'm not even | 18 | underage to so that he could sexually abuse them. |
| 19 | sure that I purchased it. So the accounts those | 19 | Okay. That's their that's their allegation. |
| 20 | accounts would be controlled by his accountants. | 20 | Okay. |
| 21 | And | 21 | From what you said yesterday and from what |
| 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Even accounts in your name, | 22 | I've reviewed about you and Mr. Epstein, he paid for |
| 23 | you're saying, or one of your entities? | 23 | a lot in your life. |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I'm not even | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. |
| 25 | sure I knew of all the entities. I'm not I | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Your flights, where you |
| | Page 222 | | Page 224 |
| 1 | don't it maybe I did, contemporaneously, but I | 1 | stayed with him. I mean, he didn't expect you to |
| 2 | simply wouldn't know today. So if there was an | 2 | reimburse him along the way for food and, you know, |
| 3 | entity, let's say account X, if I really set that up | 3 | so he took care of you for many years. |
| 4 | myself or whether they said, we're doing this and the | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is true. |
| 5 | money's coming or whatever. But in no substantive | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: On top of that, he actually |
| 6 | way I can't think of the right word. | 6 | paid you a salary as we talked about \$25,000 to |
| 7 | DAVID MARKUS: Did you have control | 7 | \$250,000. What else did he give you? Or what |
| 8 | over | 8 | purchase like, was there a time when he gave you a |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I had no control, is | 9 | million dollars or \$500,000 as a bonus? Or what |
| 10 | what I'm saying. | 10 | what financial benefit did you receive from him, |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: So when when the | 11 | besides what we've already talked about. We don't |
| 12 | government when there was testimony or the | 12 | have to talk about what, you know, so |
| 13 | government admitted evidence that showed, for | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I got it. I got it. |
| 14 | example, \$5 million in 2002 coming from Epstein to | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 15 | you, okay, what you're saying is that that may | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So my goal, always, |
| 16 | that happened, but that the you there, wasn't money | 16 | was to become independent, independently, financially |
| 17 | that he wasn't giving you money. | 17 | secure and work for myself. I've never been one to |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not going to say | 18 | not work. And in that regard, over the course of my |
| 19 | that for everything, because maybe there were | 19 | friendship and my working relationship with Epstein, |
| 20 | accounts that money was sent to me. But I can say | 20 | I expressed to him my desire to be independent of him |
| 21 | that I know like the helicopter, I can | 21 | everywhere, just to be freestanding. |
| 22 | definitively say. I'd have to look at all of them to | 22 | And the in with that in mind, I |
| 23 | be accurate for you. | 23 | wanted to have my own businesses or my own money |
| 24 | But to explain how or why I could be | 24 | coming in independent and separate from any salary |
| | | | |
| 25 | receiving monies, and I certainly did. So I'm not | 25 | that I received from him. |
3 (Pages 221 to 224)
| | Page 225 | | Page 227 |
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| 1 | And I needed that for my self-esteem. | 1 | right. That had the doors that would come up like |
| 2 | I've never been I mean, obviously salary and it | 2 | this |
| 3 | was a very generous one. Please, I'm not belittling | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 4 | the sum of money, because it's huge, but I was | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There were only a very |
| 5 | brought up to work and I was brought up to be my own, | 5 | limited number that were made. So I knew that we |
| 6 | you know. | 6 | could get those and flip them right within 24 hours, |
| 7 | The first time so I would either | 7 | for example. |
| 8 | propose businesses to him or he would actually | 8 | Also my here's another example of |
| 9 | suggest why didn't I do something in the first deal | 9 | something that you guys wouldn't have known about is |
| 10 | that we did, or the first business that we had or I | 10 | I became a banker. I got my Series 63, Series 67 |
| 11 | had and that he financed for me. | 11 | banking license and became a broker for like a new |
| 12 | So he gave he loaned me all the money | 12 | (inaudible). And then because I was day trading. |
| 13 | to enable me to do this and then I reaped the | 13 | Everything I had I day traded with through an |
| 14 | profits, which I don't remember now, because we | 14 | account. |
| 15 | varied over the deals that we did, that I would give | 15 | And I think I was lucky more than smart, |
| 16 | him 50 percent or 25. | 16 | but I made quite a lot of money doing that. And so |
| 17 | It was sort of it was random. | 17 | |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: When was that? Like what |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I can tell you | 19 | approximate time |
| 20 | what it is, so we can compare it. | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Again, that's in the |
| 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Go ahead. | 21 | '90s again. I don't , wait. I think well, |
| 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it was in Palm | 22 | you can find it, because it'll be my banking license, |
| 23 | Beach actually, and it was in real estate. And they | 23 | right? That'll be something that you can look up, |
| 24 | sold what was the grounds originally of an estate | 24 | probably.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 25 | called the Phipps Estate. And then they converted | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Yean. |
| | Page 226 | | Page 228 |
| 1 | the land that came with that estate into houses. And | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So what whatever that |
| 2 | I did, I think, two or maybe I can't remember now, | 2 | is and I just don't remember when that is. I'm |
| 3 | but certainly one and maybe two, possibly three. I | 3 | sorry. |
| 4 | don't think so. I think two, that then were flipped | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: So okay. So |
| 5 | and there was a profit. | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And so for an example, |
| 6
7 | So that would be an example of that. But | 6 | I was I was doing really, really, really well.
And so he was like, how do you do that? Well, how |
| 8 | I didn't have the money, so he lent me the funds to
do that business transaction and then I reaped the | 8 | are you what are you why are you investing in, |
| 9 | profits. | 9 | I don't know, Apple when nobody liked Apple. This |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And so but when | 10 | is, you know, before Apple or Microsoft. I didn't |
| 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that's millions of | 11 | know Bill Gates, so this is not related to him. |
| 12 | dollars. | 12 | But my family |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: when a financial | 13 | DAVID MARKUS: Don't charge her with |
| 14 | investigator like, the FBI looks at accounts, they | 14 | insider trading. |
| 15 | don't know kind of the conversations you're having. | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Please no. I'm not |
| 16 | They just see the money. | 16 | trying to suggest that. , goodness. Please, no. |
| 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | 17 | I had no |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So in those cases, when | 18 | DAVID MARKUS: It was just a joke. |
| 19 | that happened, when he would when he financed that | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. |
| 20 | with you, would he send money to you? So does that | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: It was a joke. |
| 21 | explain some of the money? Like, I guess | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. No. All right. |
| 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe I think | 22 | But my going back to my family, my dad |
| | | 23 | had given me an account when I was 12 and I had |
| 23 | it does. I think, for instance, there were two | 23 | had given me an account when I was 12 and I had |
| | Gullwing Mercedes that they did with Mercedes and
Aston You can look it up, I think, if I'm | 24
25 | always an interest in business and finance, not
not very sophisticated. I'm not suggesting that. |
4 (Pages 225 to 228)
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| 1 | And so I like to trade and so I did and I | 1 | Was it was that the helicopter? |
| 2 | did well. And so then I would tell him what I was | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: That was that's my |
| 3 | doing. Now, whether he did or he didn't, he told me | 3 | question for you. |
| 4 | he matched me in some other accounts that he had. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , sorry. |
| 5 | Because he did a lot of he my observation, to | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: I don't know. |
| 6 | go back to what he did, I observed him personally and | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Sorry. |
| 7 | have recollection personal recollection of him | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: So in 2007 |
| 8 | trading this money, lots. Tens of millions, hundreds | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that was |
| 9 | of millions of dollars. | 9 | probably the helicopter. That could have been |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: That was that he was | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: That was what? |
| 11 | | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That could have been |
| 12 | trading for other people | | |
| | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 12 | the helicopter, the Sikorsky. Those big chunks like |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: or that was his own | 13 | that, I don't I didn't I don't personally have |
| 14 | money? | 14 | any memory of receiving a check from him for |
| 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want also to clarify | 15 | \$7 million. I just I just don't. But I would |
| 16 | something for you or clarify or underline. Wexner | 16 | have to I know I so the answer to your |
| 17 | was, in my opinion, his closest friend in this time | 17 | question, to be precise |
| 18 | period from when I met him in '91, right, all the way | 18 | DAVID MARKUS: You would remember if it |
| 19 | until well, 'til, I don't know. | 19 | went into your pocket |
| 20 | Because I wasn't that friendly with | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would remember if it |
| 21 | well, I did travel with Mr. Wexner, but Epstein told | 21 | went I would he never paid me to for |
| 22 | me that Wexner didn't want to be seen too much with | 22 | services that you just described, \$7 million, to |
| 23 | me, because of my family problems. You know, whether | 23 | for any nefarious reason. |
| 24 | that was | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. I think I understand |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: You mean the problems that | 25 | what you've said about being on the payroll and |
| | Page 230 | | Page 232 |
| 1 | your father's company had with | 1 | helping him helping you with businesses, and |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2 | giving you a lot of life things along the way. You |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: embezzlement or | 3 | travel with him, you ate with him. He's, you know, |
| 4 | allegations of | 4 | but there is the these massive amounts of money, |
| 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Yes. That's | 5 | one-time payments that I |
| 6 | what I'm talking about. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I don't you'd |
| 7 | And now, actually today not | 7 | have to trace that, right? So I don't believe that |
| 8 | contemporaneously, but today I don't believe that | 8 | came into my account or I had any control. I have no |
| 9 | that's even true. I think it was used as a means to | 9 | memory of that. I have no no |
| 10 | not have me travel with him to Ohio or whatever. It | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, but if there's |
| 11 | was just a way to park me. | 11 | records that show it coming into your account, it |
| 12 | And I believe that now, because within the | 12 | sounds like what you're saying is that not putting |
| 13 | discovery there was a lot of well, not a lot, but | 13 | aside your you have no memory of that money being |
| 14 | there was some indications that he would actively | 14 | yours. |
| 15 | tell other people to lie to me or conceal things from | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 16 | me, and that he never loved me and I wasn't his type. | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Like you didn't that |
| 17 | That's in the discovery somewhere. | 17 | money is not somewhere |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So okay. So the | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I wouldn't be |
| 19 | government had evidence that, even as late as 2007, | 19 | like, , yippee, let me go. I got \$7 million. I'm |
| 20 | he paid you a lot of money. | 20 | going to go buy myself a yacht. No. Or I don't |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What was that? What | 21 | know, something else or move it to some other no. |
| 22 | was the money? | 22 | I don't think I don't think, if you |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Like several millions of | 23 | look you'll have to check, obviously you will. I |
| 23 | millions of dollars in 2007. \$7.4 million, I think. | 24 | |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What was that for? | 25 | don't think you'll find that money moving in any
to any account, either of mine or it shouldn't show, |
| 20 | OHISLAINE MAAWELL: What was that for? | 20 | to any account, entier of mine of it shouldn't show, |
5 (Pages 229 to 232)
| | Page 233 | | Page 235 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | I don't believe anyway. As far as I recollect, it | 1 | in the name of the entity. It had nothing to do with |
| 2 | wouldn't show me spending it. | 2 | her. And if you pull signatures |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Right. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that make sense? | 4 | LEAH SAFFIAN: there's no evidence for |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, that makes | 5 | that. |
| 6 | sense. I mean, I think if I don't think there's | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: No. My what I'm trying |
| 7 | any dispute by anybody, even your lawyers at trial, | 7 | to just make sure I that I understand, is that the |
| 8 | that that that the money went in. | 8 | idea that you were paid \$30 million between '99 and |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , \$7 million in | 9 | 2007, in order to by Mr. Epstein to reward you for |
| 10 | when, what year? | 10 | recruiting young women. That is in your you're |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, there's several | 11 | saying that is categorically, completely false? |
| 12 | years; in 2007. | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is categorically |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And? | 13 | false, correct. |
| 14 | TODD BLANCHE: 2002, there was \$5 million | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I want to just |
| 15 | that you were paid in 2002. | 15 | we went through several individuals yesterday and I |
| 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , well, I'd have | 16 | want to go through just a couple of more names and |
| 17 | to I don't I don't remember. But okay. So | 17 | ask if you if you know them. And if you do know |
| 18 | there's there would be another large sum, but it | 18 | them, how you know them. |
| 19 | wouldn't have come from him later. But it had | 19 | Do you know Elon Musk? |
| 20 | nothing to do | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. |
| 21 | TODD BLANCHE: The biggest one was in | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: And how did you meet |
| 22 | 1999. There's over \$18 million. \$18.3 million. | 22 | Mr. Musk? |
| 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know what that | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him in I |
| 24 | is. | 24 | don't remember the year, but it's going to be in |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: So what but you | 25 | 2010, '11, something like that, I think, if my memory |
| | | | |
| | Page 234 | | Page 236 |
| 1 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and | 1 | serves. |
| 2 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. | 2 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the |
| 2
3 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
if you don't know, we're going to we can move on.
But when we're talking about \$18.3 million | 2
3 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for |
| 2
3
4 | you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and
if you don't know, we're going to we can move on.
But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, | 2
3
4 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday. |
| 2
3
4
5 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money
| 2
3
4
5 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million.
| 2
3
4
5
6 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your
| 2
3
5
6
7
8 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein. Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts.
| 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein. Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002,
- \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember, |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million
- in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. But I don't think this money is mine.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. But I don't think this money is mine. LEAH SAFFIAN: But also, the record should
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've
ever met him. I know that he has a brother and I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | - you're but what you're saying, it sounds like, and if you don't know, we're going to we can move on. But when we're talking about \$18.3 million in '99, \$5 million in three years later in 2002, \$7.4 million in 2007. That those that money adds up to around \$30 million. You were not paid that by Mr. Epstein.
- Meaning, that's not money you received for your benefit, even if it was put into your accounts. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe any of that was my money. Now, I do I just like I said, we did do these things TODD BLANCHE: Yes. I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: - with the cars. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And as TODD BLANCHE: But GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if any of that money, some of it if it moves, some of that may have come from the car or a house that was sold that I had an interest in with him. That's possible. But I don't think this money is mine.
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | serves.
And I was at an event for Sergey Brin, the
co-founder of Google. And Sergey had arranged for
it was for his birthday.
And we were or a bunch of us, I don't
even remember how many we were, but not many of us.
Maybe I don't know. If I say 40, I
could be wrong. If it was 30 or 50, I don't
remember. I'm sorry.
Went to another friend's island. Somebody
called Mr. Pigozzi in the Caribbean and not with
Epstein, he was not there, to celebrate Sergey's
birthday. And we were there together for, I want to
say, three or four days, something like that in my
memory. And Mr. Musk was present for that.
TODD BLANCHE: And that was the first time
you met him, as far as you know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: As far as I remember,
yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet did you
know his brother, Mr. Musk's brother?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I've |
6 (Pages 233 to 236)
| | Page 237 | | Page 239 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | around 2010, on the island in the Caribbean for a | 1 | and I met him a few times and I certainly met his |
| 2 | couple days, did you have you seen do you know | 2 | brother as well a few times. |
| 3 | Mr. Musk beyond that time? | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: And the same questions that |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: We met at I was at | 4 | I asked about Mr. Musk, do you know whether |
| 5 | the Oscars and we met at the Oscars. | 5 | Mr. Epstein knew Andrew or Christor or |
| 6 | TODD BLANCHE: What year was that, earlier | 6 | Ms. Kennedy, your friend? |
| 7 | or later? | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think so. |
| 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was post that | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: And so you never you |
| 9 | event, I believe. | 9 | don't recall any of those three individuals, like, |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether | 10 | flying on Mr. Epstein's plane |
| 11 | Mr. Epstein knew Mr. Musk? | 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I believe they did. | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: or visiting him in |
| 13 | And the only reason I say that is not from my memory, | 13 | Palm Beach or at the island? |
| 14 | but because I saw I think I saw my memory is | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 15 | that in discovery, they were communicating on email. | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: I think you mentioned |
| 16 | TODD BLANCHE: So you have no personal | 16 | former Secretary of State John Kerry yesterday. But |
| 17 | knowledge of that? | 17 | if not, do you know Mr. Kerry or no? |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have met him, but I |
| 19 | TODD BLANCHE: It's just what you've | 19 | don't know if Mr. Epstein ever met him. I met him |
| 20 | what you've seen from the press or from discovery? | 20 | only well, really I can't even probably |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I believe his | 21 | characterize that as a meeting, but I was very, very |
| 22 | brother as well, actually. | 22 | involved in the Ocean at Work, through the you |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Excuse me? | 23 | asked me yesterday about TerraMar. |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Mr. Musk's brother as | 24 | And if I recall right, I met Mr the |
| 25 | well. But I don't my like I said, my memory is | 25 | Secretary that way through the Ocean, but he wouldn't |
| 20 | | 2.0 | |
| 1 | Page 238 | | Page 240 |
| 1 | Page 238 | | Page 240 |
| 1 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be. | 1 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think. |
| 2 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that. | 2 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether |
| 2
3 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I | 2
3 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy? |
| 2
3
4 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing , | 2
3
4 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 2
3
4
5 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew | 2
3
4
5 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein? |
| 2
3
4
5 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew .
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew .
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr. ?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy? |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris. | 2
3
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7
8
9
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15 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Maxwell: Code, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2
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6
7
8
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18 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN:
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris. | 2
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7
8
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18 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But Bobby Kennedy |
| 2
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9 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the | 2
3
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6
7
8
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11
12
13
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19 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sut Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health |
| 2
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13
14
15
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17
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19
20 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris | 2
3
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7
8
9
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11
12
13
14
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17
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20 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sut Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again |
| 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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18
19
20
21 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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19
20
21
22 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew |
| 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris ??
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but I would say | 2
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21 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew
Mr. Epstein. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | not it's not as good as I would like it to be.
And I just want to say that.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you you mentioned, I
think, yesterday in passing well, not in passing,
but as part of another answer, Andrew
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you know Mr.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, only because he
was married to Kerry.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I think I knew his
brother as well. What's he has a brother, right?
He's on TV. What's his name?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
LEAH SAFFIAN: MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Chris.
TODD BLANCHE: You mean the TV the
former TV anchor or the TV anchor, Chris
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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19
20
21
22
23 | know who I am, I doubt. I don't think.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
well, do you know former Senator Ted Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
TODD BLANCHE: And does is that through
your own life or through Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My life.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Epstein knew Senator Kennedy?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so.
TODD BLANCHE: And so for the folks we
just talked about, so former Secretary of State John
Kerry, Ted Kennedy, did you don't know whether
Mr. Epstein knew them, so I take that to mean you
have no recollection of them flying on his planes
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: God, no.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: M. But Bobby Kennedy
knew him. Bobby, the health
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Say that again
about Bobby Kennedy.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Bobby knew |
7 (Pages 237 to 240)
| | Page 241 | | Page 243 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | trip together. Was we went to dinosaur bone | 1 | was he was well established. |
| 2 | hunting in the Dakotas. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: When was that, you know, | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't need me. |
| 4 | approximately? I'm not looking for an exact date, | 4 | And he was, you know, his Eva was, you know, major |
| 5 | but when was that? | 5 | model. So he had all these modeling connections and |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was early that | 6 | friends in that business, long before I met him. |
| 7 | was in the early well, let me back up. I knew | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: And so the trip that you |
| 8 | Bobby's wife, Mary, pretty well, actually. And | 8 | went on with Mr. Epstein and Bobby Kennedy, was that |
| 9 | before he met her. | 9 | in the '90s and 2000s when |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And just to help us, I know | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was in |
| 11 | we're talking about a wide span of time, but what are | 11 | the it would've been in the I want to say '93, |
| 12 | you when are you talking about that you knew | 12 | '94. |
| 13 | Mr. Kennedy's wife before they were married. | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So a very long time |
| 14 | So when are talking about the | 14 | ago. |
| 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I in 19 all | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A very, very long time |
| 16 | right. I guess, let's get my head straight. In | 16 | ago. |
| 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, would this have been | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: A few years into the |
| 18 | before you met Mr. Epstein | 18 | your relationship a few years into the time that |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 19 | you knew Mr. Epstein? |
| 20 | TODD BLANCHE: or after? Okay. So | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, I don't |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him before I | 21 | want to hold myself to the dates because I really |
| 22 | met. | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: No, no. I'm not holding |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: So we're talking about the | 23 | you to dates. I think |
| 24 | 1980s. | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I really don't |
| 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , yes. Yes. Thank | 25 | |
| | | | D |
| | Page 242 | | Page 244 |
| 1 | you. | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot, |
| 2 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and |
| 2
3 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s. | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s. |
| 2
3
4 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to |
| 2
3
4
5 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they
were what the people would call "fancy." | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they
were what the people would call "fancy."
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy
people. And but he had the same types of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he
ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they
were what the people would call "fancy."
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy
people. And but he had the same types of
relationships before I met him in America. So when I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he
ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you
know either way? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they
were what the people would call "fancy."
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy
people. And but he had the same types of
relationships before I met him in America. So when I
met him, he was already, you know, Wexner and he had | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he
ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you
know either way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they
were what the people would call "fancy."
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy
people. And but he had the same types of
relationships before I met him in America. So when I
met him, he was already, you know, Wexner and he had
Henry and he had he wasI don't know if then he | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he
ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you
know either way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not.
TODD BLANCHE: But not something you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | you.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking
about the 1980s. And then
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The I was the I
had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had
his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were
all very good friends.
TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein did
Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't I don't
think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone
says everything happened through me. That's just not
true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he
had friends from London, and those are very they
were what the people would call "fancy."
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy
people. And but he had the same types of
relationships before I met him in America. So when I
met him, he was already, you know, Wexner and he had | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot,
because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and
'90s and even the 2000s.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to
know, I haven't had any I don't have anything to
review, so I haven't had any ability to the short
of my legal material, obviously, which you can you
know I have, because I came with a box worth, but
short of that, I have nothing with which to
refresh or very limited stuff, I should say, I
don't want to say nothing to refresh my mind.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you
have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy of there
being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and
masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked
about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy.
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he
ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you
know either way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. |
8 (Pages 241 to 244)
| | Page 245 | | Page 247 |
|----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | not. | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: How do you know Ms. Mills? |
| 2 | I mean, he well, I mean, yesterday, if | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met Ms. Mills |
| 3 | I didn't make it clear, I will reiterate it. I | 3 | through President Clinton. |
| 4 | never, ever saw any man doing something inappropriate | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember a |
| 5 | with a woman of any age. I never saw inappropriate | 5 | generally, the timeframe that you — you met her? |
| 6 | habits. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, actually. Hang |
| 7 | Now, I'm not I'm not going to say hands | 7 | on. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to remember I'm |
| 8 | or I mean, that to me is not inappropriate. Now, | 8 | trying to get my dates right. |
| 9 | somebody's inappropriate and mine may be different, | 9 | DAVID MARKUS: Approximately. |
| 10 | but | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, okay. I can't |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Yep. | 11 | get my dates right. But it's something you probably |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: we're not talking | 12 | can going to be in the early 2000s. |
| 13 | about anything that's resembles the accusations | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 14 | that we've discussed here. So that would be an a | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So what I don't |
| 15 | fiat no to any man. | 15 | recall |
| 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Did your or Mr. Epstein's | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: So — |
| 17 | relationship with Mr. — with Bobby Kennedy continue | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say 2002. |
| 18 | into the 2000s, as far as you know? | 18 | I'm going to say 2002,2003. |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say yes. | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: So it was after President |
| 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Urn | 20 | Clinton left office? |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, mine, yes. I | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: ■
yes. |
| 22 | don't | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: And so it was in the 2000s. |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Your's with you. Okay. | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Definitely. |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: With me, for sure. | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: And how what — how did |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | 25 | you meet her? What were the circumstances under |
| | | | |
| | Page 246 | | Page 248 |
| | | | |
| 1
2 | Mr. Epstein and Mr. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, continued
to have relationships into the 2000s? | 1
2 | which you met Ms. Mills? |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no personal | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went on a trip with
the President to South America. |
| 4 | knowledge of that. I mean, I would because | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: With which president? |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, no personal knowledge | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL:
sorry. |
| 6 | is fine. | 6 | President Clinton. |
| 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Another thing is that | 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. Just, you |
| 8 | everyone puts us together like a monolith. | 8 | know - |
| 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorn. |
| 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He literally had a | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: just wanted it was |
| 11 | separate life from me. I literally had a separate | 11 | I just wanted to make sure it was clear. |
| 12 | life from him. Now, did they say? Well, of course | 12 | Okay. So you went on a trip to to |
| 13 | they did. I'm not that's — I'm not crazy. | 13 | where? |
| 14 | But he kept a lot to himself and he didn't | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Latin America. |
| 15 | like to share. He was not a sharer. Well, at least | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: And who and so Ms. Mills |
| 16 | not with me. | 16 | was on that trip? |
| 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Epstein didn't share, | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She was. |
| 18 | you're saying? | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: And President Clinton was |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not with me, no. | 19 | on that trip? |
| 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you do you know | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was. |
| 21 | somebody named Cheryl Mills? | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Who else was on that trip? |
| 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Doug Band. |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Used to work in the | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Who worked with President |
| 24
25 | House as a lawyer?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I do. Yes. | 24
25 | Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
**9 (Pages 245 to 248)**
| 1
2 | Page 249 | | Page 251 |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| | TODD BLANCHE: And was Mr. Epstein? | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I I don't know. I |
| | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 2 | mean, nothing. He I don't believe there was any |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of | 3 | relationship, other than I helped well, without |
| 4 | that trip? | 4 | me, I don't think there would've been those flights, |
| 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, the President | 5 | because I was the one who asked Epstein to provide |
| 6 | had I don't know. I mean, I the President met | 6 | the plane for well, certainly I remember the one |
| 7 | with I can't even remember every all the, I | 7 | to Africa, of course, that big trip. |
| 8 | know, presidents and we were in | 8 | And I thought it was an honor and a |
| 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Was this part of President | 9 | privilege to be part of something so amazing and to |
| 10 | Clinton's work after he left office with the with | 10 | have an opportunity to spend time with a man that I |
| 11 | his foundation? Or was meaning what | 11 | found truly extraordinary. |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think the | 12 | And please, I don't mean it in any other |
| 13 | foundation, when did the | 13 | way, other than as a former fantastic ex-president. |
| 14 | TODD BLANCHE: was it something for him | 14 | I don't |
| 15 | or was it | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: So I was asking around the |
| 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When did the I | 16 | question, but I'll just ask it: like, were you |
| 17 | don't remember when the Clinton Global Initiative | 17 | basically asked to go because you were kind of |
| 18 | started. | 18 | responsible for the plane? |
| 19 | So if you date me if you give me that | 19 | Responsible is the wrong word. They use |
| 20 | date, I can tell you if it was pre or post. Because | 20 | you they were able to use you to make sure that |
| 21 | without that, I can't pin the reason. | 21 | they could you helped them get Mr. Epstein's plane |
| 22 | DAVID MARKUS: Do you remember what it was | 22 | for the trip? |
| 23 | for or not? | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I don't even know |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I don't recall. | 24 | if when I was on that in fact, I think I think, |
| 25 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. | 25 | that trip, I'm not even sure that Epstein had met the |
| 2.5 | | 2.5 | |
| | Page 250 | | Page 252 |
| 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I don't | 1 | President. |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, that's don't over | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 3 | think or under think the reason for my questions. | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think this is but |
| 4 | I don't I don't have any idea why you | 4 | if I'm right, and I think I am, I think that trip |
| 5 | went on that trip, so I don't know an answer that I'm | 5 | happened when Epstein and Clinton had never even |
| | getting from you. | | |
| 6 | | 6 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone |
| 6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I'm just trying to | 7 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met. |
| 6
7
8 | be as accurate as possible and give you the | 7 8 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then |
| 6
7
8
9 | be as accurate as possible and give you the information that you seek. | 7
8
9 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But |
| 6
7
8
9
10 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you | 7
8
9
10 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you | 7
8
9
10
11 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first |
| 6
7
9
10
11
12 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your | 7
8
9
10
11
12 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't |
| 6
7
9
10
11
12
13 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip? | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met. |
| 6
7
9
10
11
12
13
14 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was |
| 6
7
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go? | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band.
TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug? | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band.
TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Doug and | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and
trying to all kinds of businesses that I was into. |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band.
TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Doug and
again, back with Philip Levine. | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and
trying to all kinds of businesses that I was into.
I was trying to start the first telehealth |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band.
TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Doug and
again, back with Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: Got it. And do you know | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and
trying to all kinds of businesses that I was into.
I was trying to start the first telehealth
medicine with the Cleveland Clinic. I mean, I'm not |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band.
TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Doug and
again, back with Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: Got it. And do you know
whether he had a relationship with Mr. Epstein? | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and
trying to all kinds of businesses that I was into.
I was trying to start the first telehealth
medicine with the Cleveland Clinic. I mean, I'm not
going to bore you, because I don't think that's what |
| 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | be as accurate as possible and give you the
information that you seek.
TODD BLANCHE: Why would you do you
remember why you were invited to go? Like were you
were you friends with somebody? What was your
role going on that trip?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't have a role.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you remember why
do you remember who invited you to go?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If probably
Doug Band.
TODD BLANCHE: And how did you know Doug?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because Doug and
again, back with Philip Levine.
TODD BLANCHE: Got it. And do you know | 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | not that they'd never met, because Epstein had gone
to the House, but they had not met.
I'd never asked Epstein for the plane then
because they'd never met and it would be weird. But
they met because of me and the plane was because of
me. But that trip was the first, I think, the first
trip I took with the ex-president. And I don't
believe Epstein and he had met.
And we're talking a time period when I was
trying to
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: leave. Not very
successfully obviously, but I was branching out on my
own and being more independent of Mr. Epstein and
trying to all kinds of businesses that I was into.
I was trying to start the first telehealth
medicine with the Cleveland Clinic. I mean, I'm not |
10 (Pages 249 to 252)
| | Page 253 | | Page 255 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | that I could stop being, you know, a general manager | 1 | they're not all going to pop into my head, so. |
| 2 | of a hotel. | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Right. |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you so did you take | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I started |
| 4 | other trips with some or all of those individuals, | 4 | spending a lot of time. I don't want to characterize |
| 5 | kind of without Mr. Epstein in later years? Like, | 5 | that, but I started spending time with the former |
| 6 | you said that was the first time that you had kind of | 6 | President and with Doug and his team. |
| 7 | been on something like that and it was an honor and | 7 | And then it I had no purpose, really, |
| 8 | you were spending time with former President Clinton | 8 | other than I had I obviously offered something, I |
| 9 | and others. | 9 | don't know, ideas of I don't know. |
| 10 | Were there other over the years, did | 10 | Anyway. And he started to travel. I |
| 11 | you do that more than once? | 11 | don't remember if the first trip was Africa or how it |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 12 | went, but at some point, I think there was actually |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: We'll talk about those. | 13 | two trips, but I'm not sure. So there was to Europe |
| 14 | Like multiple times, like too many to count or there | 14 | and then to Africa, I think maybe it was all one |
| 15 | three or four times. Like how many times? | 15 | trip. |
| 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A lot. I went | 16 | And at some point, Mr. Epstein said he |
| 17 | on a lot of trips. Now I don't recall all of them. | 17 | didn't want to go on the trip and he was going |
| 18 | Not because I'm trying to be evasive or anything, but | 18 | somewhere else and he just left. And I was like, |
| 19 | I just don't remember them all. | 19 | well, okay. And so I ended up doing the whole trip |
| 20 | And after a while, you know, in the | 20 | without Mr. Epstein or his plane. |
| 21 | incredible job that you have, all of you, that when | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you were traveling |
| 22 | you're so high pressured and you're spending so much | 22 | with them, what were the purposes of the trips? Like |
| 23 | time with extraordinary people like you do with | 23 | is this one |
| 24 | President Trump, it it can blur. It just does. | 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think these were |
| 25 | And those few things that stand out, | 25 | all I think actually it was the AIDS, was one of |
| | Page 254 | | |
| | | | |
| 1 | | 1 | Page 256
the primary ones for his AIDS Foundation when he |
| 1 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as | 1 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he |
| 2 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa, | 2 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a |
| 2
3 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay. | 2
3 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips. |
| 2
3
4 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but | 2
3
4 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was |
| 2
3
4
5 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec | 2
3
4
5 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. | 2
3
4
5
6 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about | 2
3
4
5
6 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships. | 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went on these |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's the same trip. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds
like you're describing one right now, one trip
with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went
on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London.
ODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he was working to do that. And there were always a humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds like you're describing one right now, one trip with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's the same trip.
TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former
President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with
him. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds
like you're describing one right now, one trip
with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went
on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London.
ODD BLANCHE: Went to London.
ODD BLANCHE: Went to London.
ODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's
the same trip.
TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these
trips, that were you always on Mr. Epstein's |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former
President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with
him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All of them. Yes. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds
like you're describing one right now, one trip
with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went
on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's
the same trip.
TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these
trips, that were you always on Mr. Epstein's
plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former
President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with
him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All of them. Yes.
There were loads of them. And just all of them, you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds
like you're describing one right now, one trip
with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went
on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's
the same trip.
TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these
trips, that were you always on Mr. Epstein's
plane? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former
President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with
him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All of them. Yes.
There were loads of them. And just all of them, you
know the team, I don't need to give you all the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds
like you're describing one right now, one trip
with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went
on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's
the same trip.
TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these
trips, that were you always on Mr. Epstein's
plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or did you sometimes |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | because at the end it's all just extraordinary as
cars and sirens and president. It's like, whoa,
okay.
TODD BLANCHE: So, I understand, but
talk so don't give me spec
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand you can't
give specific numbers. What describe more about
kind of your, that part of your life and your
relationship. I'm using "relationship." You don't
like relationships.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right, right.
TODD BLANCHE: And your sorry. And
your
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My employer.
TODD BLANCHE: Yes. Just describe your
what you were doing with those individuals. So when
I say "those individuals," I'm talking about former
President Clinton, Doug, other folks that worked with
him.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All of them. Yes.
There were loads of them. And just all of them, you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | the primary ones, for his AIDS Foundation, when he
was working to do that. And there were always a
humanitarian side to the trips.
And we went to Egypt and to, there was
, yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: So there so it sounds
like you're describing one right now, one trip
with lots of stops.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It could be, but I
have a feeling that I went on other trips, but I
can't remember.
TODD BLANCHE: When you when you went
on these
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I went to London.
TODD BLANCHE: Went to London. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if that's
the same trip.
TODD BLANCHE: When you went on these
trips, that were you always on Mr. Epstein's
plane?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Or did you sometimes
accompany them on a different plane? |
11 (Pages 253 to 256)
| | Page 257 | | Page 259 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | Mr. Epstein's plane? Again, I'm not holding you to | 1 | Secretary Clinton, Hillary Clinton? |
| 2 | exact, but | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was a full, that | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: When did you meet her? |
| 4 | was packed. Because it was a lot of secret service. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say |
| 5 | It took all the Secret Service as well. | 5 | again, please don't hold me to it, but I want to say |
| 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 6 | that it was on a flight that came from the island |
| 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it was whatever the | 7 | from not from the island, from the Nantucket or |
| 8 | detail is for Secret Service, it's a lot. | 8 | or Martha's Vineyard back to New York, is what I |
| 9 | TODD BLANCHE: And on how many occasions, | 9 | think. I might be wrong. |
| 10 | besides the trip you just described, were there other | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So some an East |
| 11 | times when they used when President Clinton and | 11 | Coast island, like Nantucket |
| 12 | the folks he was with, used Mr. Epstein's plane? | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Or something like this? |
| 14 | there was twice, maybe. There was that. But it will | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. No, the |
| 15 | reflect on the logs. There won't be anything that's | 15 | Clint the ex-president never came to the island. |
| 16 | not on the logs that you have already. | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: And did you is that the |
| 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Were you, by the way, | 17 | only time that you met Hillary Clinton? |
| 18 | responsible for the logs in any way? Like, you've | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I went to the |
| 19 | seen the logs and they're public and you have them in | 19 | house in Chappaqua a few times. |
| 20 | discovery. | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: And why did you go to the |
| 21 | But over the years when you were working | 21 | house? |
| 22 | with or for Mr. Epstein, did you have access to the | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was invited. |
| 23 | logs? | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Just to see |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was, not. No, | 24 | President Clinton or Hillary Clinton or both or |
| 25 | never. The pilots the logbook was their personal | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I mean, as a |
| | | | |
| | Page 258 | | Page 260 |
| 1 | logbook. | 1 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't |
| 2 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never | 2 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I |
| 2
3 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set | 2
3 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past |
| 2
3
4 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never | 2
3
4 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in. |
| 2
3
4
5 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never | 2
3
4
5 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to | 2
3
4
5
6 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
in it was in Los Angeles. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm
not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
in it was in Los Angeles.
TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm
not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite I don't
know the answer to that strictly, because, I was I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
in it was in Los Angeles.
TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of
that meeting? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm
not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite I don't
know the answer to that strictly, because, I was I
was part of the beginning process of the Clinton |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
in it was in Los Angeles.
TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of
that meeting?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was hosting | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm
not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite I don't
know the answer to that strictly, because, I was I
was part of the beginning process of the Clinton
Global Initiative. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
in it was in Los Angeles.
TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of
that meeting?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was hosting
something or he was at an event and I was in L.A. and | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm
not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite I don't
know the answer to that strictly, because, I was I
was part of the beginning process of the Clinton
Global Initiative.
And that was something that I helped with |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | logbook.
I never even saw them have it. I never
saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set
of logs, the the flight manifests. And I never
saw those either. I was never I was never
allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to
see.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know so do you
know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship
with with President Clinton, different from the
what you just described? So different than being
with him, with respect to his foundation or something
like this?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that
you went on a trip or saw President Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in was late
2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17, '18, something
in it was in Los Angeles.
TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of
that meeting?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was hosting | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | friend, not for I don't there was no I don't
remember any reason, either was somehow I
communicated that was in coming, driving back past
Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in.
And it's I know it sounds a little
flippant, but it could it could have even
something as
TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether
Mr. Epstein had knew or had any sort of visit
dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no.
TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever see
them together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did do you know whether
Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with
the Clintons?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would well, I'm
not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite I don't
know the answer to that strictly, because, I was I
was part of the beginning process of the Clinton
Global Initiative. |
12 (Pages 257 to 260)
| | Page 261 | | Page 263 |
|----------|-------------------------------------------------------|----------|------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | himself, but only in the context of something that I | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It will come to me. |
| 2 | was trying to do. | 2 | It may come to me tomorrow, but eventually these |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: So when you say "involved | 3 | things, like, surface from like in the middle of |
| 4 | himself," meaning like, give money to the Clinton | 4 | the night, I was scribbling names |
| 5 | Global Initiative or something like this? | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so there's that. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: that I couldn't |
| 7 | I think he did do that. And that, I believe, the | 7 | remember from yesterday. |
| 8 | money that he may have given could have been | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 9 | independent of me. But I think it's just easier if I | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But his name will come |
| 10 | just tell you how it happened, rather than | 10 | to me, and if not, we can find it. |
| 11 | otherwise it sounds all odd and funky. I went to | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you when |
| 12 | Davos with a former president and I have you been | 12 | the just still stay staying on your |
| 13 | to Davos? | 13 | relationship with sorry, the your association |
| 14 | TODD BLANCHE: In what? | 14 | with the Clintons. |
| 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Have you been to | 15 | You were part of the ramp up or the |
| 16 | Davos? | 16 | startup of the Clinton Global Initiative |
| 17 | TODD BLANCHE: I have not. | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was. |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Well, you know, | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: and helping them in |
| 19 | it's a you know what it is, right? Okay. So | 19 | supporting that effort. |
| 20 | and I was I thought the former president should | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 1 I would say very |
| 21 | have his own Davos, because it would be and they | 21 | central to that, yes. |
| 22 | had it turned out, that they had been thinking | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: And Mr. Epstein, was he |
| 23 | about it anyway. | 23 | part of the work around that or just in support of |
| 24 | And so we were talking about it and, you | 24 | you? |
| 25 | know, it's a very heavy lift to get something like | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He supported me to |
| 2.5 | | 2.5 | |
| | Page 262 | | Page 264 |
| 1 | that to go. And I was friendly with one of the | 1 | help them, but then I think he may have tried to use |
| 2 | people who had I don't know if he was at the | 2 | that to insert himself in some way, that would not |
| 3 | beginning of Davos or but he was running Davos. | 3 | have surprised me at all. |
| 4 | It was just I don't know, hard to | 4 | And I know that he was annoying, in terms |
| 5 | describe his actual role at Davos and had | 5 | that I could catch him on the phone and he wouldn't |
| 6 | conversations with him about what did he think, you | 6 | always agree with what I wanted to do. And I was |
| 7 | know? , just because I was having dinner with him | 7 | like, it's not your idea. I don't really care what |
| 8 | about if Clinton could get something like that to go, | 8 | you think, but that didn't go over so well. |
| 9 | what was his thoughts? | 9 | TODD BLANCHE: And |
| 10 | And he was very, very enthusiastic. I | 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: , I just want to |
| 11 | mean, he was like, that's just an incredible idea. | 11 | say, it wasn't my idea for his CGI. |
| 12 | So I put them together. | 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Wasn't your say it |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Who what's that person's | 13 | again. |
| 14 | name? Do you remember? | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's not my idea. |
| 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I knew you were going | 15 | They had had that idea before. I just helped bring |
| 16 | to ask me. | 16 | key personnel to |
| 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: You're saying the idea of |
| 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can I can | 18 | President Clinton kind of having his own Davos |
| 19 | TODD BLANCHE: Just you said I | 19 | like |
| 20 | didn't know if you knew his if you remember his | 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not I'm not |
| 21 | name. | 21 | owning. I didn't that's not |
| 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do know. I do, but | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Understood. |
| 23 | I just | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want anyone |
| 24
25 | TODD BLANCHE: Can't remember his name. | 24
25 | I don't try to elevate myself in any form of |
| 20 | Okay. | 20 | importance here. |
Г
13 (Pages 261 to 264)
٦
| | Page 265 | | Page 267 |
|----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | TODD BLANCHE: No, I understand. | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She's well, I had |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 2 | a I don't know if she liked me very much. I think |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you go to Davos with | 3 | my friendship with her ex-husband well, sometimes |
| 4 | President Clinton more than once or just once? | 4 | she really did like me and sometimes she didn't. So |
| 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't remember. | 5 | maybe a frenemy, I don't know. |
| 6 | Once for sure. And I think maybe twice, but I don't | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 7 | remember. | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I it was always |
| 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Did and you're not, I | 8 | friendly when we were together, but I think that |
| 9 | think you said, you don't you're not aware of | 9 | there was some latent hostility. And I |
| 10 | President Clinton ever going to the island? | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Is that something you've |
| 11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He never. Absolutely | 11 | heard since everything came out or along the way you |
| 12 | never went. And I can be sure of that because | 12 | felt that way? |
| 13 | there's no way he would've gone I don't believe | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, that's how I felt. |
| 14 | there's any way that he would've gone to the island, | 14 | That that is a characterization of myself. That's |
| 15 | had I not been there. Because I don't believe he had | 15 | how I felt about her. I would never I was always |
| 16 | an independent friendship, if you will, with Epstein. | 16 | friendly with her. I mean, she's I mean, I've |
| 17 | Did they speak? Did he go? Yes, but | 17 | seen her many, many times and she's also super, super |
| 18 | that's very different from going to spend time on an | 18 | close with other people I'm very good friends with in |
| 19 | island. | 19 | England. I think that I think that she liked |
| 20
21 | And plus, the story as told is so patently | 20 | Mr. Epstein. |
| 22 | absurd that I flew him in the helicopter. I am a | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Why do you think that? |
| 23 | helicopter pilot, that is true. But the notion of me
flying an ex-president in a machine. That would | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My female intuition.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 24 | terrify me. I would never even take that | 24 | LEAH SAFFIAN: Discovery. |
| 25 | responsibility. Can you imagine? Yeah, no. I'm not | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: |
| 20 | | 2.5 | |
| | Page 266 | | Page 268 |
| 1 | I'm no. | 1 2 | LEAH SUFFIAN: The letter.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember it. |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Did did you ever go with
President Clinton to any of Epstein Mr. Epstein's | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: It's okay. |
| 4 | properties? | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. I don't it's |
| 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I | 5 | possible that there's things well, I know it's |
| 6 | TODD BLANCHE: so like New Mexico, | 6 | not possible. I know that there is discovery, but I |
| 7 | Palm Beach, or in New York? | 7 | don't recall. But I think she had a thing for him. |
| 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I have no memory of | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Did there's some actors |
| 9 | him in any of those places. | 9 | or some folks from Hollywood that I want to ask you |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: When you were in London | 10 | about, just to understand whether you knew them or |
| 11 | with President Clinton, did you did you ever go to | 11 | Mr. Epstein knew them. Chris Tucker? |
| 12 | your to your flat with him? | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did. | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: How did you know |
| 14 | I don't I don't think so, because this, like, it's | 14 | Mr. Tucker? |
| 15 | like he wouldn't even he wouldn't even be able | 15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think only from that |
| 16 | to carry all his Secret Service with him. I don't | 16 | flight to Africa. But I do think that they met |
| 17 | think so, no. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: You say that flight to |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you know we | 18 | Africa, the one we were just talking about with |
| 19 | talked a little about the Duchess of York, about | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 20 | Sarah yesterday. | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: President Clinton? |
| 21 | Did when's the when the last time | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Sorry. |
| 22 | you, like when's the last time you, you saw her? | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Sorry, go ahead. Yep. |
| 23 | Like, were you were you do you have a were | 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But I also think that |
| 24
25 | you with her or hang out with her, socializing with her, in the '90s, 2000s? Both? | 24
25 | they kept a little bit in touch and I think we met, |
| 20 | ner, in the 908, 200087 Doul? | 20 | or I have a memory of him maybe in L.A., I don't |
14 (Pages 265 to 268)
| | Page 269 | | Page 271 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | know. I think they sort of loosely stayed in touch. | 1 | separate friendship with her before you met |
| 2 | I wouldn't I don't think it I don't know. I | 2 | Mr. Epstein? |
| 3 | don't know how to say that. | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did. |
| 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Mr. Tucker | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Larry Summers, the |
| 5 | besides that flight? | 5 | former Secretary of the Treasury. |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 6 | Do you know that person? |
| 7 | TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did, yes. |
| 8 | when you say you think that they kept in touch, you | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: How? |
| 9 | mean you think that Mr. Epstein and Mr. Tucker | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met Mr. Summers |
| 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They may have. I | 10 | through Mr. Epstein. |
| 11 | didn't, but he might have. I'm not sure. | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: And the same question, just |
| 12 | TODD BLANCHE: Kevin Spacey? | 12 | generally time period, are you talking about early |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I know him also from | 13 | 2000s, '90s, a little after that? |
| 14 | that same flight. | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I honestly really |
| 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Aside from that flight, do | 15 | don't know. |
| 16 | you know him from any other thing? | 16 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did want to say |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Naomi | 18 | something. I forgot that there was yesterday. |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I do know Naomi, | 19 | You asked me about Mr. Epstein's properties. He had |
| 20 | and I knew her before I met Mr. Epstein and Mr | 20 | a rental in Boston as well, but it not for very |
| 21 | former President Clinton. | 21 | long, but it was another place that I had to put |
| 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether | 22 | together. And I only went with him once and he would |
| 23 | Mr. Epstein separately knew ? | 23 | go there independently of me. No, I would not go |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think she he | 24 | with him. |
| 25 | probably met her through me, that I imagine. | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Was that in the '90s? |
| | | | |
| | Page 270 | | Page 272 |
| 1 | Page 270
TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three, | 1 | Page 272
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes. |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and | 2 | |
| 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three, | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with |
| 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are p | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you |
| 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second se | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know? |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and Mathematical , did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey. | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the second distribution of the space of the second distribution of the space of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distribution of the second distress distribution of the second distributic distr | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the sevent ravel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the properties, did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone | 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the properties, did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second se | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second second se | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and difference,
did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the properties, the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties and the properties are properties. The properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties and the properties are properties are properties and the properties are properties are properties. The properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties. The properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties. The properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties. The properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties. The properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties. The properties are properties are properties are properties are properties are properties areal areal are properties are properties. The | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the spectrum, did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
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12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spectrum and the spec | 2
3
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6
7
8
9
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11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and difference,
did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and difference,
did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't
think so. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and difference,
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't
think so.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand.
Soros?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew
him. I did, but I don't think he did. I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and difference.
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't
think so.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her relationship, her | 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand.
Soros?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew
him. I did, but I don't think he did. I don't
think. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and distribution, did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't
think so.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her relationship, her
friendship, her I think you're making me use your | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew
him. I did, but I don't think he did. I don't
think.
TODD BLANCHE: How did you know Mr. Soros? |
| 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and difference,
did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't
think so.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her relationship, her
friendship, her I think you're making me use your
word. Her her friendship, whatever, with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand.
Soros?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew
him. I did, but I don't think he did. I don't
think.
TODD BLANCHE: How did you know Mr. Soros?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was friends with his |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: And so for those three,
Mr. Tucker, Mr. Spacey, and distribution, did they
ever travel to any of Mr. Epstein's properties; the
island or New Mexico?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not Mr. Tucker
well, not to my knowledge Mr. Tucker or Mr. Spacey.
Naomi may have.
TODD BLANCHE: To where?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She may have gone
well, she certainly well, I believe she visited
him in Palm Beach, and I believe she may have gone to
the island and she may have gone to see his house in
New York. Whether she went to New Mexico or Paris as
well, maybe. They were friends or friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Were you what you just
said "she may have," were you on those trips?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have any
independent memory of that, so I'm not sure. I don't
think so.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her relationship, her
friendship, her I think you're making me use your | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Mr. Summers, do you know
why do you know what his relationship was with
Mr. Epstein; business, personal, both, or don't you
know?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he spoke to
Mr. Epstein about business a lot, but I think they
were friends. They were friendly.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Summers ever traveled on Mr. Epstein's planes to
any of the properties that Mr. Epstein owned?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He may have, but I
don't think, if he did, I was on any of the flights.
I mean, those are another issues. I mean, I went
I traveled so, so much that I really the flights
just blur.
TODD BLANCHE: I understand.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he knew
him. I did, but I don't think he did. I don't
think.
TODD BLANCHE: How did you know Mr. Soros? |
15 (Pages 269 to 272)
| | Page 273 | | Page 275 |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Jon and I can't | 1 | are you talking about? |
| 2 | think of his other child. I can't think of I | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well |
| 3 | mean, I've lost his name. | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Like '90s, or 2000s, or |
| 4 | LEAH SAFFIAN: Alexander. | 4 | both? |
| 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Who? | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the 2000s, |
| 6 | LEAH SAFFIAN: Alexander. | 6 | actually, for that. You can date that because it was |
| 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him, but just | 7 | from when he I think he probably knew Frederic |
| 8 | socially. He may not remember even having met me. I | 8 | before he dated Elizabeth. But |
| 9 | was excited to meet him. | 9 | |
| 10 | | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: And when you say they were |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: When are you thinking
when would you have met him? | 11 | very friendly, did they go did they travel
together? |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If I met him it I | 12 | - |
| 13 | | | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if they |
| | think it was either at an event or at his kids it | 13 | traveled together, I mean, Epstein didn't go out very |
| 14 | wouldn't have been at his house. An event, I | 14 | much or I mean, he did go out, but not and |
| 15 | think or I think actually, no, in the Hamptons I | 15 | sometimes if he did, I think he would go out and |
| 16 | met him. He was staying at somebody's house. If | 16 | maybe see Fred Frederic. |
| 17 | if my memory serves. | 17 | And then there was I mean, he had a |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: And what was your | 18 | bunch of guys that he would I would know that he |
| 19 | relationship? How did you know his kids? | 19 | would see or meet, but he really I guess now so |
| 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was out and about in | 20 | he had new friends. I I don't know, but |
| 21 | New York a lot. | 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What other names? |
| 22 | TODD BLANCHE: So just socially? | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay, so Henry |
| 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Just socially, yes. | 23 | Jarecki, who had an island near his. Henry was a |
| 24 | And yeah, just socially, I think. | 24 | financier who was the guy who cornered the silver |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know do you know | 25 | market back in the day. |
| | Page 274 | | Page 276 |
| 1 | whether Mr. Soros or his kids ever traveled on | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: He had an island in the |
| 2 | Mr. Epstein's planes? | 2 | Caribbean in the Caribbean near Mr. Epstein? |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think so. | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. In the British |
| 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Ever visit either the | 4 | Virgin Islands. |
| 5 | island or New Mexico or | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I don't think so. | 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And there was |
| 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Paris? No? | 7 | |
| 8 | | | Branson's island there. Now I know that there's an |
| | Okay. So I we tried to to identify | 8 | Branson's island there. Now I know that there's an allegation that they met. I I think I think I |
| | Okay. So I we tried to to identify
names that have come up, either publicly or in in | 8 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I |
| 9 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in | | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with |
| 9
10 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that | 9
10 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I |
| 9
10
11 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a | 9
10
11 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and |
| 9
10
11
12 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names. | 9
10
11
12 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with |
| 9
10
11
12
13 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've | 9
10
11
12
13 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him. |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about? | 9
10
11
12
13
14 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island? |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well. | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there. |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure. | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but it's |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about
Elizabeth yesterday. | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but it's
possible, so |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about
Elizabeth yesterday.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but it's
possible, so
TODD BLANCHE: Understood. |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about
Elizabeth yesterday.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She had a boyfriend | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but it's
possible, so
TODD BLANCHE: Understood.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wanted to |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about
Elizabeth yesterday.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She had a boyfriend
and he was Frederic Fekkai, the hairdresser. And he | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but it's
possible, so
TODD BLANCHE: Understood.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wanted to
TODD BLANCHE: Who else? |
| 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | names that have come up, either publicly or in in
other lawsuits. Are there any names that you that
come to mind that we haven't, we've talked about a
lot of names. A lot of names.
Are there some folks that you think we've
forgotten to ask you about?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you asked me
about names and I have some names, and I just want to
give you some context for the names as well.
TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we talked about
Elizabeth yesterday.
TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: She had a boyfriend | 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | allegation that they met. I I think I think I
remember that I went to Richard Branson's island with
Mr. Epstein, and maybe he went another time, but I
don't I wouldn't characterize Richard Branson and
him as friends, but he did go and I think I went with
him.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
Mr. Branson ever came to Mr. Epstein's island?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If he did, I was not
there.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So but it's
possible, so
TODD BLANCHE: Understood.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wanted to |
16 (Pages 273 to 276)
| | Page 277 | | Page 279 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | with, all centered around Harvard. So I remember | 1 | I'm saying this. I was not responsible for these |
| 2 | him. | 2 | for this area of interest. I mean, I certainly |
| 3 | Nowak, who's a mathematician. | 3 | sorry, just to bounce a second before it slips my |
| 4 | Stephen Jay Gould. I don't know if Stephen Jay Gould | 4 | mind and I leave something out. |
| 5 | was came through the Harvard angle, but I know | 5 | There was an institute in New Mexico |
| 6 | that there was a he would excuse me, Epstein | 6 | called anyone? The institute of it's very |
| 7 | would have dinners at the house that I was tasked to | 7 | famous. We're not talking to the Alamos. |
| 8 | organize and the scientists were a very major | 8 | Anyway, all right. There's a very famous |
| 9 | | 9 | institute in New Mexico, so you can look it up. |
| 10 | component of that. | 10 | You'll it'll come to you at the minute you put it |
| | They weren't social dinners as much as | 11 | |
| 11 | they were scientific. He would discuss whatever he | 12 | in your computer. |
| 12 | would discuss. But if you were in the area of brain | | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And there had some of |
| 13 | cognition or he would invite them to the house and | 13 | |
| 14 | they would come, all of them. All any name you | 14 | the biggest brains ever. Those that relationship |
| 15 | can name, they would be there. | 15 | came through me, so I that's me. And that is |
| 16 | TODD BLANCHE: So let's talk about that | 16 | because my father was one of the major scientific |
| 17 | top that relation those those associations | 17 | hit up my family fortune, when I had one, came from |
| 18 | or relationships he had with the mathematicians or | 18 | scientific publishing. |
| 19 | and with Harvard, and I think with MIT, to some | 19 | And when it started from the thing that |
| 20 | extent as well. | 20 | you were asking me yesterday, my father was in the |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Official | 21 | Second World War, I told you, and he won the military |
| 22 | (indiscernible) MIT too, yeah. | 22 | cross, and then he actually did become what was part |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: What from what you | 23 | of intelligence back in the war. And his job was to |
| 24 | observed, what's the reason behind him having | 24 | interrogate German scientists and prisoners of war. |
| 25 | developing those ties with Harvard, with MIT, and | 25 | And then that parleyed into business with |
| | Page 278 | | Page 280 |
| 1 | with certain professors and others associated with | 1 | Springer-Verlag and then into Pergamon Press, which |
| 2 | those institutions? | 2 | was the scientific journals business. And he had an |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He really was | 3 | interest he believed that it's knowledge is |
| 4 | profoundly interested in that area of science and in | 4 | what would prevent war. |
| 5 | the brain, and in I mean, if you were in | 5 | And the biggest scientific discoveries |
| 6 | Stephen Jay Gould or the major scientist on | 6 | well, not all of them, but many of them are coming |
| 7 | happiness, I mean, it it came, I believe, from a | 7 | from the Eastern block and that's how we have the |
| 8 | genuine area of interest, not from anything | 8 | relationship with Santa Fe Institute. |
| 9 | TODD BLANCHE: And how did he how did | 9 | And Gell-, specifically. And I |
| 10 | he become friends with them? How how was he able | 10 | introduced Epstein to Gell- |
| 1 | ne become menus with them. Now now was ne able | | introduced Epstein to Gen- |
| 11 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to | 11 | off on a tangent. |
| 11
12 | | 11
12 | |
| | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to | | off on a tangent. |
| 12 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to the university and then they were kind of | 12 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe |
| 12
13 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain | 12
13 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute? |
| 12
13
14 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for | 12
13
14 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And |
| 12
13
14
15 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he | 12
13
14
15 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
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| 12
13
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15
16 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know | 12
13
14
15
16 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell- was there, and Gell- and |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the | 12
13
14
15
16
17 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the
chicken
TODD BLANCHE: host them or | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he was the man of
the (unintelligible). Sorry. |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the
chicken
TODD BLANCHE: host them or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't if the chicken | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-
Gell-
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he was the man of
the (unintelligible). Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you know whether |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the
chicken
TODD BLANCHE: host them or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't if the chicken
or the egg came first. | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Maxwell.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he was the man of
the (unintelligible). Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you know whether
so while you when you meet Mr. Epstein in the |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the
chicken
TODD BLANCHE: host them or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't if the chicken
or the egg came first.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the
chicken
TODD BLANCHE: host them or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't if the chicken
or the egg came first.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But but when I met | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Gell-
Maxwell:
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he was the man of
the (unintelligible). Sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: So do you know whether
so while you when you meet Mr. Epstein in the
early '90s continuing on, so not what he had done
before, did he why do you think, from what you saw |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | to spend time with them? Meaning, did he donate to
the university and then they were kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Certain
TODD BLANCHE: it was mandatory fun for
them or did he have relations with them where he
would, you know
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know the
chicken
TODD BLANCHE: host them or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't if the chicken
or the egg came first.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | off on a tangent.
TODD BLANCHE: This is at the Santa Fe
Institute?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, thank you. And
Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell-Gell |
17 (Pages 277 to 280)
| | Page 281 | | Page 283 |
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| 1 | and with and with MIT? | 1 | I heard, was that he would when I told you |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think that that | 2 | yesterday, I think, that he would, no detail was too |
| 3 | may have come with Wexner. I'm not sure, but that's | 3 | small, so he would do the contracts with the staff, I |
| 4 | something that I think that Wexner maybe had a | 4 | think, and I saw that myself. |
| 5 | relationship with Harvard, and that he used that | 5 | And he also organized all the trusts for |
| 6 | relationship to, I believe, he funded a lot. | 6 | all the children, so if Wexner had kids and |
| 7 | And if he didn't, that his clients of | 7 | Wexner I don't know if he did, he did have |
| 8 | which Wexner obviously was one, would fund. And he | 8 | children. So every time there was a child, he would |
| 9 | would he would then make he would arrange the | 9 | create a trust for that child. |
| 10 | fund or | 10 | And I don't these were complex |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Did | 11 | financial structures that would contain stocks of the |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: organize the fund, | 12 | various businesses. He restructured, when I was |
| 13 | or I don't know. | 13 | there, Wexner's business in its entirety, as I |
| 14 | TODD BLANCHE: I'm going to take we'll | 14 | recollect. |
| 15 | take a break in a in a minute, but just to kind of | 15 | And then not only that, but there were |
| 16 | set us up for what we're going to talk about next. | 16 | business interests, so Wexner owned or build, or |
| 17 | Mr. Ep we talked yesterday morning | 17 | designed, or I don't quite know how to characterize |
| 18 | about Mr. Epstein's kind of business and how he had | 18 | it, but New Albany, which is a center outside of |
| 19 | money. Did he seem to live beyond his means, as far | 19 | Ohio, Columbus, Ohio, specifically. |
| 20 | as what he was making? | 20 | And he built I remember this |
| 21 | So did you ever get the sense while you | 21 | conversation, he built himself a very large house, |
| 22 | were with him, that it was suspicious or curious how | 22 | like truly enormous and it's one of the biggest |
| 23 | he was able to have the funds to, you know, buy, you | 23 | private homes I've ever been to. |
| 24 | know, two planes, you know, an island, and | 24 | And he built all the houses around him, |
| 25 | New Mexico, you know, the ranch, almost almost | 25 | and I'm like, this is so random, why would you do |
| | Page 282 | | Page 284 |
| 1 | unlimited funds? | 1 | that? And he said to me, well, because I want to |
| 2 | | - | |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You said it perfectly. | 2 | |
| | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You said it perfectly.
I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any | 2 | make sure that the people around me are my friends |
| 3 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any | 3 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I |
| 3 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any reason to believe that it came from anything | | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been |
| 3
4 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any reason to believe that it came from anything nefarious. | 3
4 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like |
| 3
4
5 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do | 3
4
5 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get |
| 3
4
5
6
7 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that, | 3
4
5
6
7 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did. |
| 3
4
5
6 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do | 3
4
5
6 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included |
| 3
4
5
7
8 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts. | 3
4
5
6
7
8 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh, |
| 3
4
5
7
8
9 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know, |
| 3
4
5
7
8
9
10
11 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is. |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does. |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, Lehman , all of | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, Mathematical , Lehman, all of
them, to my mind anyway. And most of the major | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure, |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, for the major
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an
extraordinary list of people. It just is. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing. |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, 1 , Lehman, all of
them, to my mind anyway. And most of the major
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an
extraordinary list of people. It just is.
And then he you asked me about his, but | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought
about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets.
Riddell's? |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, Mathematical Science , Lehman, all of
them, to my mind anyway. And most of the major
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an
extraordinary list of people. It just is.
And then he you asked me about his, but
I so I thought about it last night, how to try and | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought
about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets.
Riddell's?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Riddell. |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, for the major
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an
extraordinary list of people. It just is.
And then he you asked me about his, but
I so I thought about it last night, how to try and
explain what it was and I think the best thing is to | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought
about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets.
Riddell's?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Riddell.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Riddell. Yeah, |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, . Lehman, all of
them, to my mind anyway. And most of the major
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an
extraordinary list of people. It just is.
And then he you asked me about his, but
I so I thought about it last night, how to try and
explain what it was and I think the best thing is to
focus only on Wexner's business. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought
about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets.
Riddell's?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Riddell.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Riddell. Yeah,
Riddell's. |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any reason to believe that it came from anything nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do anything, other than be on the phone, there's that, and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every financier that you could care to mention. And if I could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, for the major businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an extraordinary list of people. It just is.
And then he you asked me about his, but I so I thought about it last night, how to try and explain what it was and I think the best thing is to focus only on Wexner's business.
So I was present for some of their | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought
about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets.
Riddell's?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Riddell.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Riddell. Yeah,
Riddell's.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | I thought it was astonishing, but I didn't have any
reason to believe that it came from anything
nefarious.
I saw him work. I never saw him really do
anything, other than be on the phone, there's that,
and he had a lot of meetings, but he had a lot of
accounts.
And he dealt with pretty much every
financier that you could care to mention. And if I
could have access to the names, I'd be able to tell
you which ones you I just don't remember them all.
But in every bank, . Lehman, all of
them, to my mind anyway. And most of the major
businessmen at that time, he was in the Council of
Foreign Relations, so you had access. That's an
extraordinary list of people. It just is.
And then he you asked me about his, but
I so I thought about it last night, how to try and
explain what it was and I think the best thing is to
focus only on Wexner's business. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | make sure that the people around me are my friends
I want my friends around me and my neighbors. And I
was like, well, whatever. Okay, you know. I've been
around enormous wealth my whole life, and I've like
at some point I just say, okay, whatever. I get
it, and I don't. And so that's what he did.
But Epstein ran New Albany, which included
a country club and a golf club and a I mean, gosh,
your boss is one of the all-time great, you know,
businessmen in this area. You know what that is.
And he certainly does.
So there'd be that, and there was a
business business that Epstein well, he told me he
owned it, but of course, I can't say that for sure,
because I don't know, but it's a sports thing.
Riddell, is that a business? Riddell's? I thought
about it last night. It's red and had hats, helmets.
Riddell's?
LEAH SAFFIAN: Riddell.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Riddell. Yeah,
Riddell's. |
18 (Pages 281 to 284)
| | Page 285 | | Page 287 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | owned that, I but that was before I think I came | 1 | he would have women around him, or women on the |
| 2 | in and he had it, or he said he did. | 2 | plane, or women in his house, or that's how I'm |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Got it. | 3 | explaining that. |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And he had other | 4 | Those women were very interested. What |
| 5 | businesses. He had I know this notion that he did | 5 | my characterization of the interest the |
| 6 | nothing and he just was a grifter and whatnot. | 6 | relationships between all women that I saw with him |
| 7 | Okay. I'm not going to say that's not | 7 | and him, was characterized by excuse me, their |
| 8 | true, but it's not what I saw and it's not what I | 8 | interest in him as I would see it. |
| 9 | believe is true. Not because it couldn't have been | 9 | And by that, I mean, I never saw anybody |
| 10 | that he didn't grift or whatever the word is off | 10 | who didn't want to be with him and be with him, maybe |
| 11 | off people, but I saw where I thought looked like | 11 | socially or whatever. I never saw anybody, not under |
| 12 | real work. | 12 | any form of duress in any type of situation where |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, why don't we take | 13 | they were, as I would characterize it, looking |
| 14 | a take a break. Okay. | 14 | uncomfortable or in any way distressed. |
| 15 | DAVID MARKUS: Yeah. Thank you. | 15 | In the entire time I was with him or |
| 16 | SPENCER HORN: All right. The time is now | 16 | traveled with him, I never saw that. So any time I |
| 17 | 10:35 and we'll take a break. | 17 | saw anybody with him, they were happy to be with him. |
| 18 | (Off the record at 10:35 a.m.) | 18 | He would ask people all the time, whoever you were, |
| 19 | SPENCER HORN: We are resuming from break. | 19 | to massage his feet. |
| 20 | The time is 10:49 on Friday, July 25th. | 20 | It just was he'd be sitting there, and |
| 21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. All right. So we've | 21 | he'd have somebody massage his feet, or squeeze his |
| 22 | talked around this issue, but talked about it a | 22 | shoulders, or I saw that a lot. It was an |
| 23 | little bit. I want to spend the next hour or so or | 23 | ubiquitous interaction, if you will. |
| 24 | however long it takes. | 24 | So I did see that. I saw physicality, but |
| 25 | When you when we I want to talk, | 25 | not anything that was I don't know how to |
| | | | |
| 1 | Page 286 | | Page 288 |
| 1 | Page 286
focus kind of exclusively on Enstein and like his | 1 | Page 288
characterize it anything that looked aggressive I |
| 1 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his | 1 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I |
| 2 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women. | 2 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I suppose, to define that. So I never saw an |
| 2
3 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple | 2
3 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move. |
| 2
3
4 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think | 2
3
4 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well |
| 2
3
4
5 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't | 2
3
4
5 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you | 2
3
4
5
6 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see. | 2
3
4
5 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday, | 2
3
5
6
7
8 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
during massages? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been
through what you've been through and heard people say | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
during massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you could define |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been
through what you've been through and heard people say
what they've said, and read what they read, what do | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
during massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you could define
sexual conduct as in, I did see women who could have |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been
through what you've been through and heard people say
what they've said, and read what they read, what do
you where does that leave you in your mind with | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
during massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you could define
sexual conduct as in, I did see women who could have
been, you know, less than normally clad for massage, |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22
23 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been
through what you've been through and heard people say
what they've said, and read what they read, what do
you where does that leave you in your mind with
what happened? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
during massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you could define
sexual conduct as in, I did see women who could have
been, you know, less than normally clad for massage,
but especially on the island where they would be in a |
| 2
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22 | focus kind of exclusively on Epstein and like his
criminal conduct with respect to women.
Do you you said yesterday a couple
times that, like, you now kind of recognize or think
that there was things that he did that you didn't
know about, and that he kept from you or that you
didn't see.
What did you see? So you said yesterday,
and I'm not I'm not trying to put words in your
mouth, but at some point he was getting massages
seven days a week, sometimes multiple massages a day.
Women have said that that were there that say
they were there giving him massages, said that those
included some sort of sexual conduct, however, you
define that in the broadest sense, not just a
traditional massage, regularly.
So what do you what did you see and
hear at the time? And then I think, aside from what
you saw and heard at the time, now that you've been
through what you've been through and heard people say
what they've said, and read what they read, what do
you where does that leave you in your mind with | 2
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23 | characterize it, anything that looked aggressive, I
suppose, to define that. So I never saw an
aggressive move.
TODD BLANCHE: Well
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything
that was
TODD BLANCHE: Non-consensual.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you. Okay. I
never saw anything that was non-consensual. So if
he well, maybe they didn't I never saw anything
that looked like they didn't like the hug, or I never
saw what I would characterize as anything that was
unconsensual.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you see did you see
him either receiving or participating in sexual
conduct during massages? Understanding you never saw
something nonconsensual.
Did you see him engage in sexual conduct
during massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, you could define
sexual conduct as in, I did see women who could have
been, you know, less than normally clad for massage, |
19 (Pages 285 to 288)
| 1 | Page 289 | | Page 291 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | TODD BLANCHE: But what about in so | 1 | I'm not saying that Mr. Epstein did not do |
| 2 | yes, I agree, that's one area. Like so women who | 2 | those things. I'm not casting those I'm not going |
| 3 | were either not clothed or topless with just a bottom | 3 | to say I don't feel comfortable saying that today, |
| 4 | on. But beyond that, did you see as part of that him | 4 | given what I now know to be true. So I am not here |
| 5 | touching them? | 5 | to defend him. |
| 6 | And again, I'm not talking about consent | 6 | But what I can say is that I did not |
| 7 | or not consent or age or you know, I'm saying like | 7 | participate in that activity. And |
| 8 | there's multiple, multiple, you know, dozens and | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: So let's divide this into |
| 9 | dozens of women who have said that they were that | 9 | two areas. Maybe there's more, but we'll start with |
| 10 | they engaged in sexual contact. And I agree, there's | 10 | two areas. One is there was testimony and there's |
| 11 | a broad range of what that can how that can be | 11 | certainly been depositions and public statements, |
| 12 | defined, but defining it in the broadest of terms. | 12 | that some of these young women had conversations with |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So him being physical | 13 | you about their age. |
| 14 | with women? I did see that, but nothing that was not | 14 | So, for example, conversations about the |
| 15 | consensual. And to address the issue of the large | 15 | fact that they were in high school or conversations |
| 16 | number of women who today say that he was | 16 | about the fact that they wanted to go to college one |
| 17 | non-consensual coercive with them. I'm not sure. | 17 | day, which would necessarily mean well, not |
| 18 | I in my mind I sort of have to characterize the | 18 | necessarily, but would be more likely to mean that |
| 19 | two distinct areas. There's one where is the women | 19 | they were in high school when they talked to you |
| 20 | who are not of age. Therefore, anything with them is | 20 | about that. |
| 21 | immediately unconsensual. | 21 | And so, were there times were there |
| 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Correct, yeah. | 22 | women that you knew were underage? And I say that |
| 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So let's start I | 23 | because that's different than whether they were |
| 24 | want to define anyone who's underage versus anybody | 24 | sexually abused in any way by Mr. Epstein, just |
| 25 | who's over age, because I do think that there's a | 25 | merely their age and going to give him a massage? |
| | Page 290 | | Page 292 |
| 1 | very significant differential between the two. | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I never knew that |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: So does the law. | | |
| | | 2 | and I can categorically state that had any child said |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So | 2 | |
| 3
4 | | | and I can categorically state that had any child said |
| | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So | 3 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that |
| 4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no. | 3
4
5
6 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen. |
| 4
5
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7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that. | 3
4
5
6
7 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would |
| 4
5
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart. | 3
4
5
7
8 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I |
| 4
5
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I | 3
4
5
7
8
9 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done. |
| 4
5
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. | 3
4
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7
8
9
10 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think |
| 4
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8
9
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11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to | 3
4
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7
8
9
10
11 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly |
| 4
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8
9
10
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12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here. | 3
4
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8
9
10
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12 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when |
| 4
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13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the | 3
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9
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13 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein. |
| 4
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14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just | 3
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14 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you |
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15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. | 3
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15 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that, |
| 4
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16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a | 3
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8
9
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11
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14
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16 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman |
| 4
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17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's | 3
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9
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12
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15
16
17 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage? |
| 4
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15
16
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18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right. | 3
4
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9
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13
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16
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18 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're |
| 4
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11
12
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16
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9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right.
I never saw anything with anybody who was | 3
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7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're
talking about Jane, and I'm |
| 4
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20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right.
I never saw anything with anybody who was
certainly to be categorical in my from my trial. | 3
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7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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20 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're
talking about Jane, and I'm
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 4
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21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right.
I never saw anything with anybody who was
certainly to be categorical in my from my trial.
Let's deal with that, because that's | 3
4
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7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
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20
21 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're
talking about Jane, and I'm
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: very happy to |
| 4
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22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right.
I never saw anything with anybody who was
certainly to be categorical in my from my trial.
Let's deal with that, because that's
something that I can say in I never saw that with | 3
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14
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22 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're
talking about Jane, and I'm
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: very happy to
address that. I actually don't think that the |
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22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right.
I never saw anything with anybody who was
certainly to be categorical in my from my trial.
Let's deal with that, because that's
something that I can say in I never saw that with
them at all. And I would say that as as | 3
4
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7
8
9
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15
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23 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're
talking about Jane, and I'm
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: very happy to
address that. I actually don't think that the
testimony is correct. I don't believe |
| 4
5
6
7
8
9
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12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, no.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be
smart.
TODD BLANCHE: I agree with you. Yes, I
agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to
deal with the thing, which is really why we're here.
I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the
other, but I just
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: want to make a
distinction with underage situation, because there's
nothing about that that's right.
I never saw anything with anybody who was
certainly to be categorical in my from my trial.
Let's deal with that, because that's
something that I can say in I never saw that with | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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22 | and I can categorically state that had any child said
to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17,
because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said
they were 17, I don't but I've read so much that
that did happen.
I mean, I just I had no I would
never have permitted such a thing, I would not I
don't even know what I would have done.
TODD BLANCHE: So some of the I think
even someone who testified at trial, but certainly
have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when
she was introduced to Mr. Epstein.
In in your mind today, you don't you
kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that,
meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman
coming to give him a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're
talking about Jane, and I'm
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: very happy to
address that. I actually don't think that the |
20 (Pages 289 to 292)
| | Page 293 | | Page 295 |
|----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | not I just wanted to tell you how | 1 | how Mr. Epstein changed, but at some point, |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to | 2 | Mr. Epstein definitely preferred younger women? |
| 3 | get into | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I accept. |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm not | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: And I think you said |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: he said, she said. | 5 | yesterday, but say it again since we're talking about |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: no, no. Absolutely | 6 | |
| 7 | not. I'm not I don't want to go there either. | 7 | it. Is that something that you, in your mind, one of
the areas where he changed from when you first met |
| 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. | 8 | him until later? |
| 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not going to do | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I when I just |
| 10 | | 10 | also want it to be clear, I never understood that |
| 11 | that. But I believe that what took place, with a lot | | ,
, |
| 12 | of these people, is that there was a slide, right? | 11
12 | change to encompass children. I did see from when I |
| | So there was a zone and I he did meet | | met him, he was involved or involved or friends |
| 13 | her and I did meet her, and I knew that she was a | 13 | with or whatever, however you want to characterize |
| 14 | young child and I knew that she was not an adult, | 14 | it, with women who were in their 20s. And then the |
| 15 | because but I don't believe he met her 'til she | 15 | slide to, you know, 18 or younger looking women. But |
| 16 | was 16. | 16 | I never considered that this would encompass criminal |
| 17 | So I'm not I'm not doing a he said, she | 17 | behavior. It never |
| 18 | said, I'm not doing that, because nobody will. | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: And so when you read, I |
| 19 | That's not what we're here for. | 19 | guess, two different times, right? One was during |
| 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 20 | the Florida investigation, when |
| 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But he didn't meet her | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 22 | 'til she was 16, and the entire testimony of the 14, | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: there were eventually |
| 23 | 15, and 16-year-old is, therefore, not accurate. | 23 | public statements from some of these now women who |
| 24 | Did I meet her when she was 16 with her | 24 | testified about what they did with Mr. Epstein when |
| 25 | mother? I absolutely did. And did I know that she | 25 | they were under 18. |
| | Page 294 | | Page 296 |
| 1 | was young? I absolutely did. | 1 | At that point, did you realize or did you |
| 2 | But everything that took place that was | 2 | think to yourself, this happened or this could have |
| 3 | alleged at trial at the 14, and 15, and 16, is not | 3 | happened, I missed it, or were you at that point |
| 4 | accurate. And I don't | 4 | still in the mindset that they were either not |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: There's testimony or | 5 | telling the truth or were not remembering what |
| 6 | there's and again, I'm using testimony in the | 6 | happened the way that accurately? |
| 7 | broadest sense. Some of this is just public | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's a very fair |
| 8 | statements or something that's come out in civil | 8 | question. So I think that my view of this at that |
| 9 | lawsuits about you and Mr. Epstein giving, like an | 9 | time, to call it as contemporaneously as it did, |
| 10 | 18 you're turning 18 birthday card to somebody, | 10 | because I don't think that stuff came out in public, |
| 11 | which again, if true would, by definition mean you | 11 | right? I mean, I may have read things, but I |
| 12 | knew that she was under 18. | 12 | don't my first real |
| 13 | Do you recall doing that? | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, that's fair. |
| 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. I mean, no | 14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: memory of that is |
| 15 | memory of that at all. And I believe that would be | 15 | at the trial. But my viewpoint, if you will, was set |
| 16 | the person that called herself Kate has now announced | 16 | from the minute that for a lied in her civil |
| 17 | herself in her own podcast for who she really is. | 17 | deposition. And I could never recover from that, |
| 18 | Her name is House . So I did not meet | 18 | because |
| 19 | until actually, she was either 20 or 21. So | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: What are you what are |
| 20 | it would be very hard for me to have given her an 18 | 20 | you which lie, what are you referring to? |
| 21 | birthday card. And the testimony there's also | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Her entire |
| 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you accept | 22 | characterization |
| 23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: that slid back. | 23 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| | | 24 | |
| 24 | TODD BLANCHE: do vou accept that at | 24 | GHISLAINE MAAWELL: 01 10, 1 don't |
| 24
25 | TODD BLANCHE: do you accept that at
some point, and we talked about this yesterday about | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: of no, I don't
remember how she came and whether I did, |
21 (Pages 293 to 296)
| | Page 297 | | Page 299 |
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| 1 | TODD BLANCHE: I see. | 1 | that I really want to have a discussion about, |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: but I'm talking | 2 | is some of these women have said, , yes, you know, |
| 3 | about the first time she came to Epstein's house, | 3 | Ms. Maxwell was there, you know, to varying degrees. |
| 4 | which I knew | 4 | She saw me there, she the door was open when I was |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 5 | there. And then much more egregious, right? That |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: to be false. So | 6 | you participated and that you were part of it. |
| 7 | from that first lie of that description, I could | 7 | And so what I really want you to have an |
| 8 | never recover from that. | 8 | opportunity to say to us, is where on the spectrum |
| 9 | TODD BLANCHE: I understand. Okay. So | 9 | the truth is. Whether it's somewhere in the middle, |
| 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And that tainted | 10 | whether it's one extreme or another extreme, |
| 11 | sorry. Just so that we clear it, tainted, then, the | 11 | understanding. In my mind, I'm talking about 1994 or |
| 12 | testimony of everybody else that I saw that came post | 12 | '5, to whenever, late '90s or early 2000s. |
| 13 | that, because I had my own personal experience, which | 13 | DAVID MARKUS: And let me just interrupt. |
| 14 | I knew to be false. | 14 | All I would say is, we're not here to say anything |
| 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. And the reason why I | 15 | one way or the other about Epstein. |
| 16 | think and I said to Mr. Markus that this | 16 | · · |
| 17 | morning that we were going to talk about this, | 17 | I agree with you that the evidence is
overwhelming against him, and he he is his own |
| 18 | because when I think about you and the public's | 18 | person and has to deal with that. But Ghislaine can |
| 19 | perception of Mr. Epstein, the public is left with | 19 | speak about what she knows |
| 20 | the view that nobody in the world knows what really | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: Yes. |
| 21 | | 21 | |
| 22 | happened except for you, okay? | 22 | DAVID MARKUS: and from her point of
view and what she did. |
| 23 | And now you've explained, the last day and | 23 | |
| 23 | a half, how some of that's just a misperception, | 24 | And that's what you can talk about, |
| 24 | because you weren't you didn't have a key to his | 25 | Ghislaine. |
| 25 | house, you weren't around as much as maybe everybody | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 1 | D | | D |
| | Page 298 | | Page 300 |
| 1 | claims you were, okay? | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's |
| 2 | claims you were, okay?
But th ere still is this perception out | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's helpful to put this on the time on the calendar, |
| 2
3 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to | 2
3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I |
| 2
3
4 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein | 2
3
4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2? |
| 2
3
4
5 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth | 2
3
4
5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No. |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein. | 2
3
4
5
6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals. |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl, |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: and it's also beyond, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl,
, who said, but and DOUTHEDACTION and |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: and it's also beyond,
I think at this point, there were certainly | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl,
who said, but and DOUTHEDACHION and DOUTHEDACHION
those I don't know of any others. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: and it's also beyond,
I think at this point, there were certainly
circumstances that underage women well, I don't | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl,
who said, but and DOJ HEDACTION and THE ADDITION
those I don't know of any others.
And if there are other people who are |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: and it's also beyond,
I think at this point, there were certainly
circumstances that underage women well, I don't
want to say that you agree with me on that. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl,
who said, but and DOU HEDACTION and DOU HEDACTION
those I don't know of any others.
And if there are other people who are
making allegations about, I don't I'm not even |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: and it's also beyond,
I think at this point, there were certainly
circumstances that underage women well, I don't
want to say that you agree with me on that.
I certainly believe that there were | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl,
Who said, but and DOT REDACTION
and MAXWELL: And if there are other people who are
making allegations about, I don't I'm not even
I'm not actually aware of them. I may have read them |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | claims you were, okay?
But there still is this perception out
there that, my gosh, if if we could talk to
Ms. Maxwell, we would know how horrible Mr. Epstein
was or how misperceived he was. Whatever the truth
is about Mr. Epstein.
And the challenge in my mind, just to
be I told you I would tell you when I had
issues and the challenge in my mind is that so
many women have have said that Mr. Epstein
sexually assaulted them, whether juveniles or adults,
that I don't find it you know, at some that's
persuasive, right, that that happened.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So
TODD BLANCHE: And so if that's persuasive
then and I think it's without beyond
contestation that he preferred younger women
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I
TODD BLANCHE: and it's also beyond,
I think at this point, there were certainly
circumstances that underage women well, I don't
want to say that you agree with me on that. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I think it's
helpful to put this on the time on the calendar,
because I think without that we, we're lost. So I
would say we'll go from the beginning '91? No. '2?
No. '3? No. '4? No. '5? No. '6? No.
In that time frame, you have the
allegations of Jane, who I dispute. I don't think he
met her until she was
TODD BLANCHE: Let's not talk about
individuals.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no, no, I'm just
saying.
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But there's only
but there's only so in that time period, I am only
aware of her.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm aware of a girl,
who said, but and DOU HEDACTION and DOU HEDACTION
those I don't know of any others.
And if there are other people who are
making allegations about, I don't I'm not even |
22 (Pages 297 to 300)
| | Page 301 | | Page 303 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | think I'm fairly confident, and I can say that at | 1 | women, models, or people that he would have come to |
| 2 | least as characterized, it's just it's just false. | 2 | the house. |
| 3 | It's just it didn't happen as said. | 3 | I I know that I thought that he was |
| 4 | Now, did it did it happen did he | 4 | with Eva still at that time. That's what I believed. |
| 5 | did he involve himself? I knew about Jane, because I | 5 | And then subsequently believed that even |
| 6 | saw her come to the house. But I saw her with her | 6 | though she married him, I actually subsequently |
| 7 | mother. I know that her allegations are that there | 7 | believed that the baby that she had was his. |
| 8 | were orgies, for instance. But the people that she | 8 | DAVID MARKUS: Can I interrupt for one |
| 9 | suggests were in her orgies, didn't even work for | 9 | second? |
| 10 | Epstein until '98 or '99. | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Of course. |
| 11 | Did he do orgies with those people? I | 11 | DAVID MARKUS: Can I just ask some basic |
| 12 | don't know anybody who was there who said that they | 12 | top line questions? |
| 13 | did. I certainly didn't see it. I can't say that | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 14 | that happened. Did she do it with someone else? I | 14 | DAVID MARKUS: Were you ever in a massage |
| 15 | don't know. | 15 | room with him and a masseuse? |
| 16 | The stories really start the | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 17 | allegations really begin with | 17 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Who when was |
| 18 | that you have to shift his behavior, such as it was | 18 | that? |
| 19 | bar, there was one in California who made an | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he would come in |
| 20 | allegation. | 20 | sometimes, and he would say, like, give her a massage |
| 21 | There was a woman who said that she and | 21 | here, or he would grab my you know, but not often. |
| 22 | she's I didn't know about. So I think I would | 22 | I mean, he did come in from time to time. |
| 23 | call her the first person. I'd be aware of him using | 23 | DAVID MARKUS: Were you ever in a massage |
| 24 | his position to | 24 | room with him with a masseuse that was naked or |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: But and sorry to | 25 | giving him any sexual favors? |
| 25 | | 2.5 | |
| | Page 302 | | Page 304 |
| 1 | interrupt you. But I just want to I don't want | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw that. |
| 2 | I don't want to have you I don't think it's | 2 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. |
| 3 | helpful for us | 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I remember. |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 4 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Did you did you |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: have you kind of address | 5 | ever did any of the masseuses ever discuss with |
| 6 | each allegation. | 6 | you giving that they gave sexual favors to |
| 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. | 7 | Epstein? |
| 8 | TODD BLANCHE: I want you to clear your | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 9 | mind and just tell the truth about it. So I'm not | 9 | DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Did you ever see an |
| 10 | saying you're not telling the truth. | 10 | underage girl go into a massage room with |
| | | | |
| 11 | I'm saying just putting aside what other | 11 | Mr. Epstein? |
| 12 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 12
13 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in | 12
13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what |
| 12
13
14 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there. | 12
13
14 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left? |
| 12
13
14
15 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there.
And so when you go back to that time | 12
13
14
15 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive. |
| 12
13
14
15
16 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there.
And so when you go back to that time
period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time | 12
13
14
15
16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there.
And so when you go back to that time
period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time
period, what did you see when it comes to young women | 12
13
14
15
16
17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done. |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there.
And so when you go back to that time
period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time
period, what did you see when it comes to young women
and massages? | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry. |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there.
And so when you go back to that time
period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time
period, what did you see when it comes to young women
and massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay. |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or
what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in
the press, push those aside, you were there.
And so when you go back to that time
period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time
period, what did you see when it comes to young women
and massages?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry.
All right. So I saw him receive massages. | 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay.
DAVID MARKUS: Okay. |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | - people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in the press, push those aside, you were there.
- And so when you go back to that time period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time period, what did you see when it comes to young women and massages?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. All right. So I saw him receive massages.
- He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay.
DAVID MARKUS: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | - people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in the press, push those aside, you were there. And so when you go back to that time period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time period, what did you see when it comes to young women and massages?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. All right. So I saw him receive massages.
- He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were standard and who traveled with him, and I saw that.
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay.
DAVID MARKUS: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Epstein masturbating during a massage? |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | - people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in the press, push those aside, you were there. And so when you go back to that time period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time period, what did you see when it comes to young women and massages?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. All right. So I saw him receive massages.
- He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were standard and who traveled with him, and I saw that. He was living in the Iranian house, and
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay.
DAVID MARKUS: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Epstein masturbating during a massage?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, when I'd |
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | - people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in the press, push those aside, you were there. And so when you go back to that time period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time period, what did you see when it comes to young women and massages?
- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. All right. So I saw him receive massages.
- He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were standard and who traveled with him, and I saw that.
| 12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what
would you have done? Would you have left?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive.
I can't even conceive of I can't imagine what I
would have done.
DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry.
TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay.
DAVID MARKUS: Okay.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
Mr. Epstein masturbating during a massage? |
23 (Pages 301 to 304)
| 1 | Page 305 | | Page 307 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| | present, but I've seen him on a massage | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is categorically |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. | 2 | not true. |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, I just | 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you moving past |
| 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever see him | 4 | the and moving into the 2000s |
| 5 | masturbate with a masseuse you know, with a naked | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I just want to |
| 6 | woman, either giving him a massage or reporting to | 6 | say that I have been I mean, I remember there'd be |
| 7 | give him a massage? | 7 | times when he'd be getting a massage and I would be |
| 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember | 8 | in the room, I could be on his feet, and somebody |
| 9 | seeing that. | 9 | else could be on his feet, and we could be talking. |
| 10 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you give him massages | 10 | So there is that. |
| 11 | by the way? I mean, there's a photo of you rubbing | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: But that's not you're |
| 12 | his feet, and I think, but | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never I certainly | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: not talking about |
| 14 | have been in the massage room with him, and I have | 14 | something that's sexual, you're talking about |
| 15 | certainly rubbed his feet when he was we're | 15 | literally just rubbing his feet? |
| 16 | talking, but I was not a masseuse and I didn't | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 17 | perform massage on him. | 17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you along during | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But I mean |
| 19 | the over the years, did you pay the masseuses? | 19 | TODD BLANCHE: But that's not what I'm |
| 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was typically not | 20 | talking about, I'm saying |
| 21 | my job, but if there was nobody else, normally so | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Well, they |
| 22 | in Palm Beach, the houseman would give the money. | 22 | could be the sometimes the women might be |
| 23 | And in New York, he would do that, because | 23 | topless who were giving that. So you could say that |
| 24
25 | I wouldn't be in New York when he I mean, I don't | 24
25 | was sexual in that context. |
| 20 | remember ever paying a masseuse in New York. | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: No, I'm talking about the |
| | Page 306 | | Page 308 |
| 1 | TODD BLANCHE: So it wasn't | 1 | repeated reports of certain sex acts happening with |
| | | l | |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But maybe | 2 | you present and even participating? |
| 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your | 3 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job | 3
4 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the |
| 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 3
4
5 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math | 3
4
5
6 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a | 3
4
5
6
7 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that | 3
4
5
7
8 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money? | 3
4
5
7
8 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on | 3
4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
participate in sexual activity with him with a | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that
time period. And but I did not see I have no |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
participate in sexual activity with him with a
masseuse, like at the same time? | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that
time period. And but I did not see I have no
recollection of ever seeing a child entering the |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
participate in sexual activity with him with a
masseuse, like at the same time?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that
time period. And but I did not see I have no
recollection of ever seeing a child entering the
house and giving him a massage. I at that time, |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
participate in sexual activity with him with a
masseuse, like at the same time?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: And so the testi I | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that
time period. And but I did not see I have no
recollection of ever seeing a child entering the
house and giving him a massage. I at that time,
he had moved me out of the main house. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
participate in sexual activity with him with a
masseuse, like at the same time?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: And so the testi I
don't know if there's testimony, but the women who | 3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that
time period. And but I did not see I have no
recollection of ever seeing a child entering the
house and giving him a massage. I at that time,
he had moved me out of the main house.
I had moved into an office with John |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: your it wasn't your
job
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: on a regular math
basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a
masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that
seven days a week you would be the one handing them
money?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mostly I would
not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that
wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them.
I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he
would have money or the houseman, and I think some of
them would have probably received checks.
TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on
what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you
participate in sexual activity with him with a
masseuse, like at the same time?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: And so the testi I | 3
4
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8
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21
22 | you present and even participating?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you did in the
2000s time period, so moving a little more recently
when you talked about it yesterday, about how your
relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was
changing and you ultimately met somebody else.
Did you observe any, you know, massages or
young women giving him massages later on? So after
2000, 2001 time period?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did.
TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything
different about what you observed during that period
and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct
towards them?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency
increased. I think he went from one to two in that
time period. And but I did not see I have no
recollection of ever seeing a child entering the
house and giving him a massage. I at that time,
he had moved me out of the main house. |
24 (Pages 305 to 308)
| | Page 309 | | Page 311 |
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| 1 | that part of the house. | 1 | creepy. And if they did, I never saw them behave |
| 2 | If I saw people, and I'm not saying I | 2 | like he was being weird. Was it a lot? Yes, it was |
| 3 | didn't see people come to give him a massage, that | 3 | for sure. I found it overwhelming, and I couldn't |
| 4 | wouldn't be true either. But if I saw someone, let's | 4 | understand why it was interesting, because to me, |
| 5 | say, I wouldn't I don't remember ever seeing | 5 | it's not interesting. |
| 6 | anybody that I would characterize as a child, no. | 6 | But he, as he defined it, he found it |
| 7 | Specifically someone who accused me of seeing her at | 7 | invigorating. He liked being with younger people and |
| 8 | the time when she came. | 8 | not just younger people. I'm just saying because |
| 9 | If I did see her, and I don't believe I | 9 | they gave him ideas, and they were up to date on |
| 10 | did see her or meet her at all, but if she did, she | 10 | music and |
| 11 | was as her she's described herself now, was very | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, but that's different, |
| 12 | mature and looked in her 20s. | 12 | like, a masseuse coming every day. |
| 13 | So could somebody have come that was more | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just telling you |
| 14 | mature looking than the allegation of what she did | 14 | what he was saying to me. |
| 15 | look like, with a photograph that was produced as | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 16 | evidence? Yes. But I never recall at any time | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, to me, I just |
| 17 | seeing what I would characterize as a child coming to | 17 | found it a drag and difficult and annoying. |
| 18 | give him a massage and going upstairs. Did I see | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Did you |
| 19 | people come? I absolutely did. | 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But understand I |
| 20 | Did I I just didn't see children. I | 20 | wasn't the only person present. So this time in the |
| 21 | didn't see anybody I would think of as a child. And | 21 | 2000s, you're talking about other people, like |
| 22 | if I had seen a child, I wouldn't I'm not sure | | , who was around, who interfaced with him. |
| 23 | what I would have done. | 23 | I didn't have to she was really |
| 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, did you just | 24 | interfacing with Epstein at this point in time in his |
| 25 | talking, like coming out a little bit of just bigger | 25 | life. She was running his she was his assistant. |
| 1 | D | | |
| | Page 310 | | Page 312 |
| 1 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his | 1 | And so I didn't have to |
| 1
2 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you | 1 2 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But |
| | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the | | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that |
| 2 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it. | 2 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people |
| 2
3 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting | 2
3 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him? |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women | 2
3
4
5
6 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days. | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York, | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
wise? Like at the time, what was it like? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't
TODD BLANCHE: from from others? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
wise? Like at the time, what was it like?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't
TODD BLANCHE: from from others?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
wise? Like at the time, what was it like?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been
creepy, like, as you would define, and you would | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't
TODD BLANCHE: from from others?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did
hide it. I that's the answer. And I think that |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
wise? Like at the time, what was it like?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been
creepy, like, as you would define, and you would
expect someone who was living that lifestyle to be | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't
TODD BLANCHE: from from others?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did
hide it. I that's the answer. And I think that
the people around him, I think, myself included |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
wise? Like at the time, what was it like?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been
creepy, like, as you would define, and you would
expect someone who was living that lifestyle to be
creepy, I don't think the women would have been | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't
TODD BLANCHE: from from others?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did
hide it. I that's the answer. And I think that
the people around him, I think, myself included
TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | picture, do you at the time that you were in his
life, did do you was he a did he seem to you
to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the
right way to describe it.
But when you say to me, he was getting
massages every single day, right? So young women
were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days.
Flew with the women to the island, to New York,
Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing
him, giving him massages. I think it's it would
be an understatement to say that that's not normal?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I agree.
TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been part
of the Epstein story over the past several years, but
you were there at the time. Okay?
What was it like at the time? I mean, was
he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing?
Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image
wise? Like at the time, what was it like?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been
creepy, like, as you would define, and you would
expect someone who was living that lifestyle to be | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | And so I didn't have to
TODD BLANCHE: That's a fair point. But
move beyond the his assistants or the folks that
work with him. What about his friends and the people
that were associated with him?
It couldn't be it doesn't I don't
understand how that how this is an after fact of
Mr. Epstein. So once he's arrested in Florida, it
becomes part of his story. And then later on he's
charged in Southern District, and then here we are
now in 2025.
But he was a very successful, hardworking
guy, and he had a lot of clients, and he flew with
them on vacations and went to the island. It
doesn't I don't understand how he was able to hide
this, what seems to me to be some sort of sexual
fixation or issue
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't
TODD BLANCHE: from from others?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think he did
hide it. I that's the answer. And I think that
the people around him, I think, myself included |
25 (Pages 309 to 312)
| - | Page 313 | | Page 315 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | I think it because it was a self because so | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: No, I understand. |
| 2 | many people saw it of so many of such a high | 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Thank you. I |
| 3 | caliber down that never seemed to think it would | 3 | just want to be clear that I'm not trying to be cute |
| 4 | well, if they thought it was strange probably, they | 4 | or anything. |
| 5 | never said it at the time. So it became sort of like | 5 | But and I did look for masseuses, I |
| 6 | it was his thing, right? He was always around with | 6 | I did. I went to spas and if I met somebody who said |
| 7 | women. | 7 | she was a masseuse, I did not check their |
| 8 | Now, you don't I understand that it's | 8 | credentials. And of course, if she was attractive, I |
| 9 | very unattractive, especially in light of everything | 9 | did introduce her, yes. |
| 10 | that we know today. But at the time, the only way I | 10 | If I met friends who were interested, he |
| 11 | can sort of try and describe it is through Sex and | 11 | was constantly asking me for to meet new and |
| 12 | the City, the movie, the show on telly, where the | 12 | interesting people. I did I did do that. |
| 13 | this is that lifestyle is described on the TV show | 13 | At the time, I viewed it as well, first |
| 14 | constantly. | 14 | of all, part of my job, I think, or part of my |
| 15 | There are always these women around and | 15 | responsibility, if you were, to introduce because |
| 16 | men who like it. And a lot of the men that I know | 16 | it wasn't just women. If I met somebody who was |
| 17 | like women, and so maybe not as overtly as Epstein, | 17 | interesting, like Gell- or who I thought |
| 18 | but he was overt, not covert, except obviously in the | 18 | he would like, I did that. So it's not exclusively, |
| 19 | context of the criminal behavior. | 19 | but he did. And I did do that. |
| 20 | So what we're discussing now, there's a | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: So but then so I want |
| 21 | difference between the criminal behavior and the | 21 | to layer on top of what you just said, what we talked |
| 22 | non-criminal. But you don't like the lifestyle, I | 22 | about yesterday more, but a little bit today already, |
| 23 | concur. | 23 | which is everybody that was around him besides you, |
| 24 | I agree. Especially now. And I I own | 24 | like his friends. |
| 25 | my side of that fence that I was there and that I saw | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. |
| | Page 314 | | Page 316 |
| 1 | his behavior with women and didn't challenge him or | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: So I accept the lifestyle. |
| 2 | do something. | 2 | I've seen the photos, the fact that everybody is |
| 3 | But I don't I don't think back in the | 3 | we're all going to go to the island for a couple of |
| 4 | '90s or the 2000s, we've had a cultural shift. And | 4 | days, or we're flying on a private plane and there's |
| 5 | the cultural shift, I think is a very important part | 5 | beautiful women everywhere. |
| 6 | of the analysis here. Not because I'm trying to | | beautiful women everywhere. |
| | of the analysis here. Not because I'm dying to | 6 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit |
| 7 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to, | | |
| 8 | | 6 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit |
| 8
9 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this. | 6
7 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going |
| 8
9
10 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this | 6
7
8
9
10 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm |
| 8
9
10
11 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the | 6
7
8
9
10
11 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the |
| 8
9
10
11
12 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the | 6
7
9
10
11
12 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm | 6
7
9
10
11
12
13 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the | 6
7
9
10
11
12
13
14 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law. | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle. |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking
behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did, | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
But then when he's taking groups of folks |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking
behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did,
but not underage women. I understand that there are | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
But then when he's taking groups of folks
to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking
behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did,
but not underage women. I understand that there are
allegations. I have read them about myself going to | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
But then when he's taking groups of folks
to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or
whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking
behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did,
but not underage women. I understand that there are
allegations. I have read them about myself going to
schools. I can categorically tell you that I have | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
But then when he's taking groups of folks
to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or
whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church
in the morning while he's getting a massage. |
| 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking
behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did,
but not underage women. I understand that there are
allegations. I have read them about myself going to
schools. I can categorically tell you that I have
never, in my life, gone to a school to pick up a | 6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
But then when he's taking groups of folks
to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or
whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church
in the morning while he's getting a massage.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I hear you. I was |
| 8
9
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12
13
14
15
16
17
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19
20
21
22 | justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to,
and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me
program. So please, don't misunderstand this.
However, in the 19 2000s, when this
behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the
Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the
women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm
my memory serves, were actually targets of the
investigation and could have been charged with
prostitution and trafficking, I would if
trafficking was even a law.
So you're taking you're taking
behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did,
but not underage women. I understand that there are
allegations. I have read them about myself going to
schools. I can categorically tell you that I have | 6
7
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22 | Is there any I mean, do you, as you sit
here today, think that the people around him didn't
also weren't also of the same place where they
were also getting massages where there was sex going
on during them, or things like that? And I'm
obviously asking this because that's what the
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah.
TODD BLANCHE: that's what everybody
has said. And when you just described what it was
like, the very next step from that is everybody's
going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so
and so you it seems kind of far-fetched to say
that, yes, that was his lifestyle.
But then when he's taking groups of folks
to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or
whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church
in the morning while he's getting a massage. |
26 (Pages 313 to 316)
| | Page 317 | | Page 319 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: and you're talking | 1 | wasn't there. I didn't see it. |
| 2 | about very substantial people. And you are | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: So when's the last time you |
| 3 | extrapolating because the narrative that started | 3 | think you were with Mr. Epstein when he got a |
| 4 | in by the way, not until 2009, is when it really | 4 | massage? |
| 5 | started. | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say 2007. |
| 6 | So that narrative that was created and | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: 2007? |
| 7 | then built upon, and it just mushroomed into what | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 8 | basically this is like a Salem witch trial. People | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: And the frequency at that |
| 9 | have gone and lost their minds for this thing. I | 9 | point, so 2007, is that when it was at its peak, |
| 10 | understand that. | 10 | would you say? Meaning the number of interactions he |
| 11 | But the issue is, how do you satisfy a mob | 11 | was having daily with women and masseuses? |
| 12 | who can't understand the lifestyle because it's like | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I wasn't really in his |
| 13 | P. Diddy in Redux on TV with Clintons and Trump. I | 13 | life. I happened to be in the Caribbean in 2007. I |
| 14 | mean, it's it's bananas. And while some of it is | 14 | was with Ted. |
| 15 | real, he did do those things. I'm definitely not | 15 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 16 | disputing that. | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And we I was still |
| 17 | But this was a man, they didn't even | 17 | speaking with Epstein, because I was still involved |
| 18 | believe he had a real business. I happen to believe | 18 | in his you know, loosely with his the houses |
| 19 | he did. Did he grift? I don't I don't know, | 19 | and the staff and some of the billing. And he and |
| 20 | because I wasn't really in his business. But this is | 20 | I was going back from being with Ted in the Caribbean |
| 21 | this is one man. | 21 | to New York, and Epstein offered me a ride. And so |
| 22 | He's not some they've made him into | 22 | Ted dropped me off in Saint , and I was on the |
| 23 | this he's not that interesting. He's a disgusting | 23 | island, I believe, for one day and one night only. |
| 24 | guy who did terrible things to young kids. You're | 24 | On that visit, I believe well, I know |
| 25 | not going to hear me say what he did to people who | 25 | he would have gotten a massage, but I have there |
| | | | |
| | Page 318 | | Page 320 |
| 1 | Page 318
are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go | 1 | Page 320
were people there, but I did that were women. And |
| 1
2 | | 2 | - |
| | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go | | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2
3
4 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or | 2
3
4 | were people there, but I did that were women. And I was |
| 2
3
4
5 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like | 2
3
4
5 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some | 2
3
4
5
6 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in | 2
4
5
7
8 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened. | 2
4
5
6
7
8
9 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, , you know, we had sexual intercourse and that | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.) |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, , you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, , you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m.
TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, , you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | were people there, but I did that were women. And I was TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not to TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next day. TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break. SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a break. The time is 11:31. (Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.) SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the time is 11:49 a.m. TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to follow up about former President Clinton's
|
| 2
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4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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18 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m.
TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to
follow up about former President Clinton's
relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you.
|
| 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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19 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m.
TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to
follow up about former President Clinton's
relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you.
Can you we touched on it, but can you
|
| 2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
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18
19
20 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are
in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m.
TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to
follow up about former President Clinton's
relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you.
Can you we touched on it, but can you
just to set the I have a couple questions about
|
| 2
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6
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21 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are
in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and
you know, would be with him if he was a creep or | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m.
TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to
follow up about former President Clinton's
relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you.
Can you we touched on it, but can you
just to set the I have a couple questions about
it, but what's your understanding of their
|
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22 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are
in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and
you know, would be with him if he was a creep or
because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants | 2
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22 | were people there, but I did that were women. And I was TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not to TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next day. TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break. SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a break. The time is 11:31. (Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.) SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the time is 11:49 a.m. TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to follow up about former President Clinton's relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you. Can you we touched on it, but can you just to set the I have a couple questions about it, but what's your understanding of their relationship from what you observed? Meaning former
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23 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, , you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are
in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and
you know, would be with him if he was a creep or
because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants
sexual favors, he will find that. They didn't have | 2
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23 | were people there, but I did that were women. And
I was
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not
to
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next
day.
TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break.
SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a
break. The time is 11:31.
(Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)
SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio
recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the
time is 11:49 a.m.
TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to
follow up about former President Clinton's
relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you.
Can you we touched on it, but can you
just to set the I have a couple questions about
it, but what's your understanding of their
relationship from what you observed? Meaning former
President Clinton and Mr. Epstein.
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6
7
8
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11
12
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14
15
16
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18
19
20
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22 | are over the age 18. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go
there. That's just not what I'm here to I mean, I
okay?
But to suggest that Larry Summers or
Clinton would certainly go, my gosh, this is like
a guy I'm going to get my body rubbed and have some
sex. They're men that went and had a massage and
maybe did something sexual, they're men, I wasn't in
the room. I cannot tell you if that happened.
And if it did, not I never paid for
that. Just so that we're clear. Nobody ever said to
me, you know, we had sexual intercourse and that
was a three, uh-uh (negative). I'd be like, okay.
TMI, no, not my business. You want to it's just
not. And I didn't want to know. Maybe there's that.
But did I, like, think these guys were
coming for that? I really don't. If you met
Epstein, there is no way that this cast of
characters, of which it's extraordinary, and some are
in your cabinet, who you value as your coworkers, and
you know, would be with him if he was a creep or
because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
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10
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14
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22 | were people there, but I did that were women. And I was TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: just relieved not to TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: be leaving the next day. TODD BLANCHE: Let's take a break. SPENCER HORN: Well, we're going to take a break. The time is 11:31. (Break at 11:31 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.) SPENCER HORN: We are resuming the audio recorded proffer agreement with Ms. Maxwell, and the time is 11:49 a.m. TODD BLANCHE: All right. I wanted to follow up about former President Clinton's relationship with Mr. Epstein, not you. Can you we touched on it, but can you just to set the I have a couple questions about it, but what's your understanding of their relationship from what you observed? Meaning former
|
27 (Pages 317 to 320)
| | Page 321 | | Page 323 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | because I wasn't either a party or didn't listen and | 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 2 | I know I would characterize, originally anyway, | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: The circumstances in which |
| 3 | Mr. Epstein's interest in him because obviously he's | 3 | he got it? |
| 4 | the former president. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. |
| 5 | But I never saw him other than that, I | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know of any other |
| 6 | saw them be friendly on the plane, but I never I | 6 | gifts or paraphernalia or art or pictures that former |
| 7 | don't believe I don't recollect, anyway, ever | 7 | President Clinton gave to Mr. Epstein? |
| 8 | seeing them in any other context. | 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I mean, did he |
| 9 | I don't remember him at his house in New | 9 | maybe get him a gift? I don't know. I have no |
| 10 | York. Like I said, I don't believe he ever went to | 10 | knowledge of that. |
| 11 | that island. I think that was just a that was a | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: And then going back to the |
| 12 | story that did. | 12 | topic we were talking about before our last break. |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Do you know one way or the | 13 | Well, when you said something yesterday at |
| 14 | other, whether their relationship continued without | 14 | the very beginning of our conversation that when you |
| 15 | you, like, when you kind of moved on past | 15 | first met Mr. Epstein and you ultimately have sex |
| 16 | Mr. Epstein? | 16 | with him, that he had I'll use the word erectile |
| 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't believe so. | 17 | dysfunction, but he had issues having sex? |
| 18 | TODD BLANCHE: Why do you say that you | 18 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's what he told |
| 19 | don't believe so? | 19 | me. |
| 20 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I don't think | 20 | TODD BLANCHE: That's what he told you? |
| 21 | they had a relationship even when I was there. I was | 21 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 22 | I President Clinton liked me, and we got along | 22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And then over the |
| 23 | terribly well. But I never saw that warmth or that | 23 | years, you said sometime in the '90s he started |
| 24 | that warmth or however you want to characterize | 24 | taking testosterone? |
| 25 | it, with Mr. Epstein and cert so I didn't see | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. But I don't know |
| | Page 322 | | Page 324 |
| 1 | that. I didn't see any interest in I didn't see | 1 | if it was in the '90s. I don't remember when he |
| 2 | President Clinton being interested in Epstein. He | 2 | started, but it wasn't he had patches |
| 3 | was just a rich guy with a plane. | 3 | testosterone patches |
| 4 | TODD BLANCHE: When when the Southern | 4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 5 | District of New York case kind of became public and | 5 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: dermal. |
| 6 | there was a search warrant of Mr. Epstein's house, | 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Like on his arm? |
| 7 | there was like a there was some sort of painting | 7 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. |
| 8 | or picture with Mr. Clinton in like a blue dress that | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 9 | had been signed. | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And then he was |
| 10 | Did you know do you know where he got | 10 | ridiculous, because you shouldn't take more than one. |
| 11 | that picture or that painting? | 11 | But sometimes he had, like I'm like, what are you |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The first I saw it was | 12 | doing? It's like unhealthy. |
| | | 110 | |
| 13 | in the press. | 13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. From what you |
| 13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that | 14 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have |
| 13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his | 14
15 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think |
| 13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. | 14
15
16 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told |
| 13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone? | 14
15
16
17 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed? |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was | 14
15
16
17
18 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie. |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was
hideous. | 14
15
16
17
18
19 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie.
TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was
hideous.
TODD BLANCHE: What's that again? | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie.
TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying
about what? |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was
hideous.
TODD BLANCHE: What's that again?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought it was | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie.
TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying
about what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: About his erectile |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was
hideous.
TODD BLANCHE: What's that again?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought it was
hideous. | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie.
TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying
about what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: About his erectile
dysfunction. |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was
hideous.
TODD BLANCHE: What's that again?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought it was
hideous.
TODD BLANCHE: And but you had never | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie.
TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying
about what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: About his erectile
dysfunction.
TODD BLANCHE: , you mean you never |
| 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: So you never observed that
in his
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
TODD BLANCHE: brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I thought it was
hideous.
TODD BLANCHE: What's that again?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought it was
hideous. | 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | observed or saw or heard, did he continue to have
challenges sexually over the years or do you think
that whatever he told you whatever issue he told
you he had was fixed?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was a lie.
TODD BLANCHE: You think he was lying
about what?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: About his erectile
dysfunction. |
28 (Pages 321 to 324)
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| | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. That is what I | 1 | memory of telling anybody about that. I think I may |
| 2 | believe today, yes. But given if any of the | 2 | have joked like saying, my God, you know, like |
| 3 | stories are true, even if he had erectile | 3 | from a Sex and the City scene that, you know, he's |
| 4 | dysfunction, the thing had a priapism, for Christ's | 4 | but not I never instruct the question you're |
| 5 | sake. | 5 | asking me, sorry, let's just be clear. |
| 6 | TODD BLANCHE: Well, that's that's one | 6 | Did I ever instruct anyone how to |
| 7 | of the reasons for my questions. I mean, you're | 7 | pleasure, Mr. Epstein, your question? No. |
| 8 | right. I mean and again, we're we've talked | 8 | TODD BLANCHE: And you said this earlier, |
| 9 | about this a fair amount, but what did like the | 9 | but I want to just you kind of said it on your |
| 10 | stories of what masseuses, underage and overage have | 10 | own. I want to ask the question, just so I'll make |
| 11 | said about him is, are, you know, and what he liked, | 11 | sure that there's no confusion. |
| 12 | what he demanded that they do. Whether it's watching | 12 | When when you over the years |
| 13 | him masturbate or pinching his nipples, you know, | 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, can I just |
| 14 | kind of things that are unusual. | 14 | TODD BLANCHE: yeah. Of course. Yeah, |
| 15 | Do you believe that? Like, do you from | 15 | yeah, please. |
| 16 | what you saw, from what you observed, from what you | 16 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Right. I just |
| 17 | did when you were in a relationship with him, is that | 17 | want to say, the idea that I would have to explain to |
| 18 | true? | 18 | a woman how to satisfy Mr. Epstein is patently |
| 19 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I well, the bulk of | 19 | absurd, because he clearly was able to explain |
| 20 | what I read, he did not have sex. So that is | 20 | himself. |
| 21 | consistent with what he told me, actually. | 21 | He didn't need an interlocutor to explain |
| 22 | And his masturbating, that is also | 22 | what he liked. He's been doing this obviously or |
| 23 | consistent with what I knew myself. And I'm going to | 23 | this some version of this story his whole life and |
| 24 | use a bad word for | 24 | did not require any help from me. |
| 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Please, you can use | 25 | TODD BLANCHE: Then so did you ever |
| | Page 326 | | Page 328 |
| 1 | whatever words you need. Yes. | 1 | observe him having sex with a masseuse? Regular |
| 2 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Blowjob. | 2 | intercourse, not a blowjob, nothing else, where you |
| 3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 3 | either walked in or you were in the room? |
| 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He liked blowjobs. | 4 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw him have |
| 5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 5 | sex with any person. |
| 6 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I did observe. | 6 | TODD DI ANCHE A L L L L L A |
| | And he didn't seems to have only another dyafty attact | | TODD BLANCHE: And so how about oral sex? |
| 7 | And he didn't seem to have any erectile dysfunction | 7 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex, |
| | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I | 7 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or |
| 7
8
9 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I read the stories about all the allegations of sexual | 8
9 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw |
| 7
8
9
10 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not | 8
9
10 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No. |
| 7
8
9
10
11 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I read the stories about all the allegations of sexual rape, I find that challenging, because that was not his modus operandi, from my perspective. | 8
9
10
11 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about | 8
9
10
11
12 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses. |
| 7
9
10
11
12
13 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be | 8
9
10
11
12
13 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes. | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that. |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question. |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
who asked you about working with him? Did you tell | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question.
Sorry. |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
who asked you about working with him? Did you tell
them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question.
Sorry.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know for sure |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
who asked you about working with him? Did you tell
them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate
in front of you? | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question.
Sorry.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know for sure
I said that. |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
who asked you about working with him? Did you tell
them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate
in front of you?
Like, did you have conversations with any | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question.
Sorry.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know for sure
I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, that's fair. That's |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
who asked you about working with him? Did you tell
them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate
in front of you?
Like, did you have conversations with any
of those with women about what Mr. Epstein liked | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question.
Sorry.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know for sure
I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, that's fair. That's
fair. |
| 7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | for blowjobs, but sex, he didn't have. So when I
read the stories about all the allegations of sexual
rape, I find that challenging, because that was not
his modus operandi, from my perspective.
TODD BLANCHE: But when you read about
blowjobs, that does that that would be
consistent with kind of
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That would be
consistent, as would masturbation, yes.
TODD BLANCHE: Did you talk to masseuses
or women that either he was in a relationship with or
who asked you about working with him? Did you tell
them, yes, he likes blowjobs, yes, he'll masturbate
in front of you?
Like, did you have conversations with any | 8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex,
whether you were in the room or walked in, or
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw
anyone give Epstein a blowjob. No.
TODD BLANCHE: But you said earlier you
did see him masturbating in front of masseuses.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know if I said
that. I don't know
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Sorry. I don't
want
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: if I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question.
Sorry.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know for sure
I said that.
TODD BLANCHE: No, that's fair. That's |
29 (Pages 325 to 328)
| 1 | Page 329 | | Page 331 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | define as sexual contact. Because if somebody could | 1 | never heard him. So I've been present many times |
| 2 | not have their clothes or topless, I would say maybe, | 2 | with masseuses. I never who presumably could or |
| 3 | I could say that. | 3 | maybe did massage somebody, I'm not saying whether |
| 4 | If I saw him having masturbating when | 4 | they did or not just (indiscernible). |
| 5 | someone was there, I don't recall that, I don't have | 5 | I never heard him ask any question of any |
| 6 | a specific memory of it. I'm sorry. | 6 | masseuse who may have given a massage to a friend |
| 7 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 7 | that was on the island, or in Palm Beach or anywhere |
| 8 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But no, I'm not | 8 | else for that, any details about that massage. Like, |
| 9 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. | 9 | does he have a funky foot? No, I never heard that |
| 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't say that. | 10 | because it weird. |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I understand, that's | 11 | TODD BLANCHE: And I think at one of the |
| 12 | fair. Sorry. I'm not | 12 | breaks today, your lawyer may have showed you |
| 13 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's okay. | 13 | something that just came out in the paper, I think |
| 14 | TODD BLANCHE: certainly not trying to | 14 | this morning or last night. A letter that you |
| 15 | | 15 | that is attributed to you, associated with this |
| 16 | put words in your mouth. | 16 | birthday book from 2003 that we talked about |
| 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, no. That's | 17 | |
| 18 | absolutely no. That's fine. | 18 | yesterday. |
| 19 | TODD BLANCHE: So and you said, I think | 19 | Is did you see that letter.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did see the letter. |
| 20 | in passing maybe not in passing. I'm sorry. | 20 | |
| | About about, you know, whether other | | TODD BLANCHE: Is that, in fact look |
| 21 | people who travel with him would get massages or | 21 | like your handwriting or something you wrote? |
| 22 | so that would when I say that I'm referring mostly | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So, I don't remember |
| 23 | to the island or, potentially, New Mexico. But also | 23 | the letter. |
| 24 | his Palm Beach residence or even in New York. | 24 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 25 | Do you know of do you have a list of | 25 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But it does look like |
| | Do 100 220 | | |
| | Page 330 | | Page 332 |
| 1 | names in your head or names that come to mind of | 1 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And |
| 2 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were | 2 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory |
| 2
3 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein? | 2
3 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all. |
| 2
3
4 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list. | 2
3
4 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the |
| 2
3
4
5 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't | 2
3
4
5 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like, |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can | 2
3
4
5
6 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I | 2
4
5
7
8 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it? |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches? |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick, |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And
TODD BLANCHE: So just so you so I |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control
over somebody because of what he knew about what they | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And
TODD BLANCHE: So just so you so I
understand |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
20
21
22
23 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control
over somebody because of what he knew about what they
had done or had photos of him or anything? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And
TODD BLANCHE: So just so you so I
understand
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: On heavy paper. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | names in your head or names that come to mind of
people that you know did get massages when they were
with Mr. Epstein?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, there's no list.
There's no list of people getting massages. I don't
have I can barely recall all the people. I can
barely recall. I struggle to recall actual people
that I met. And I may have met a long time that I
had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy, or I
probably brought it up yesterday. It just came to my
mind now.
So I don't have, and there's no list.
There was never a list. There was no or certainly
none that I ever saw. None I ever heard of, none
that I ever witnessed, none that I there's no
list. Has never been a list.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.
TODD BLANCHE: And you never heard
Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control
over somebody because of what he knew about what they | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | my handwriting. And it does look like my name. And
it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory
of writing that, and I don't remember it at all.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember what the
birthday book, as they're calling it, what it, like,
looked like? Like how it was put together?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.
TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
it?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember it. It was
leather-bound, and I remember it being about yea big.
It was big. Right like
TODD BLANCHE: So you're saying it looks
like it's like over 12 inches, 14, 15 inches?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. It was like sort
of like a folio size, I guess, or something like
that. And like this. And it was and thick,
about this thick.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And
TODD BLANCHE: So just so you so I
understand |
30 (Pages 329 to 332)
| | Page 333 | | Page 335 |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 1 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's about right. | 1 | received in discovery those pages, I assumed that it |
| 2 | TODD BLANCHE: And then around like | 2 | had been found when either New York or the island was |
| 3 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A4. A4. We had A4, | 3 | searched, and I assumed that the Southern District of |
| 4 | because it was done on heavy paper, but I can't | 4 | New York had it. |
| 5 | remember if it was folio size paper, or it could have | 5 | TODD BLANCHE: But I think you said |
| 6 | just been A4. | 6 | yesterday. But just to go over it again, in case you |
| 7 | TODD BLANCHE: I see. So it could have | 7 | remember anything differently. You recall seeing |
| 8 | just been letter size, or it might have been legal | 8 | some of the letters in discovery. |
| 9 | size | 9 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. |
| 10 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 10 | TODD BLANCHE: But you don't recall kind |
| 11 | TODD BLANCHE: heavy paper. | 11 | of seeing the leather book, start to finish? |
| 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. | 12 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, but remember, I |
| 13 | TODD BLANCHE: And the so the folks | 13 | didn't see all discovery because they were very |
| 14 | that submitted letters were given the paper or | 14 | clever about, you know, I didn't receive all |
| 15 | how were the letters or did you, like, glue or | 15 | discovery, period. And in fact, very important items |
| 16 | something the letters to the paper? | 16 | were not given to me at all, including witness |
| 17 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Every which way. Some | 17 | testimony from grand jury. |
| 18 | were given the paper and they did their own thing. | 18 | TODD BLANCHE: So whether so you don't |
| 19 | Some would send me some scrap of paper and I would | 19 | know one way or the other, whether it was part of |
| 20 | put it on the thing. Some I didn't get because they | 20 | discovery, you just know that you didn't get it. It |
| 21 | went straight to Epstein, and I was just told to put | 21 | wasn't part of the discovery that was given to you? |
| 22 | them in, like I said. | 22 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct. But there's |
| 23 | TODD BLANCHE: And how was it bound? | 23 | a I am absolutely sure that the Southern District |
| 24 | GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It went to a | 24 | of New York hid very important pieces of evidence |
| 25 | professional binder, who did it like a book that | 25 | from me. |
| 20 | • | 2.5 | |
| 1 | Page 144 | | Page 336 |
| | Page 334 | 1 | Page 336 |
| 1 | you'd see in the library. | 1 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay. |
| 2 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps | 2 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that |
| 2
3 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together, | 2
3 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if |
| 2
3
4 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way? | 2
3
4 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true. |
| 2
3
4
5 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe | 2
3
4
5 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I |
| 2
3
4
5
6 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't | 2
3
4
5
6 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a | 2
3
4
5
6
7 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you. |
| 2
3
6
7
8
9
10
11 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone? | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it I know I | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do.
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it I know I
did see it, because it was right behind his desk. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do.
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have
questions or follow-up. |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it I know I
did see it, because it was right behind his desk.
And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do.
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have
questions or follow-up.
And this has been very helpful. I think |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it I know I
did see it, because it was right behind his desk.
And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened
to it. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do.
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have
questions or follow-up.
And this has been very helpful. I think
it's it was you, you know, who kind of said you |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
9
20
21
22
23 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it I know I
did see it, because it was right behind his desk.
And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened
to it.
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know do you | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do.
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have
questions or follow-up.
And this has been very helpful. I think
it's it was you, you know, who kind of said you
wanted to talk, but we gladly accepted it. So I do |
| 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | you'd see in the library.
TODD BLANCHE: So like the glue that keeps
a regular book, a novel that you would read together,
it was bound that way?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Like a I believe
so. I don't think it was stitched, but I don't
remember. I mean, it was professionally done by a
professional bookbinder.
TODD BLANCHE: And then after you
presented it, or after it was presented to him when
he turned 50, did you see the leather-bound book, did
he keep it somewhere in particular?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in his bookcase
in 71st Street.
TODD BLANCHE: In Manhattan?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In Manhattan.
TODD BLANCHE: And did you see it over the
years until you stopped going to the brownstone?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I saw it I know I
did see it, because it was right behind his desk.
And after I stopped going, I don't know what happened
to it. | 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 | TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I assumed that
they leaked it because where else would it be, if
that's what it is. If it's true.
TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So I've just so I
put I'll say it to you as I've talked a little bit
to your lawyer about it. I said to you yesterday
that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today
was was exactly what we did, which is to have a
conversation about Mr. Epstein and about you.
And I think it's very challenging to talk
about everything we talked about. And, you know, in
one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So
I'll talk to Mr. Markus about kind of what we're
going to do next, if anything.
There's no and I don't I'm not being
coy or I just I don't know yet. I don't know.
So we I have a lot of we have some work to do.
We'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have
questions or follow-up.
And this has been very helpful. I think
it's it was you, you know, who kind of said you |
31 (Pages 333 to 336)
| Page 337 | |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--|
| - Yeah.
- SPENCER HORN: This concludes the recorded
- proffer interview of Ms. Maxwell. The time is
- 12:05 p.m., on Friday, July 25th.
- (Interview concluded at 12:05 p.m.)
- (Interview concluded at 12:05 p.m.)
| |
| 25 | |
| Page 338 | |
| 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 2 I, Cathy M. Ayotte, do hereby certify that 4 the provided audio recording media was transcribed by 5 me or reduced to typewriting under my supervision, 6 that said transcript is a true transcription of the 7 audio recording; that I am neither counsel for, 8 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the 9 action involved in these proceedings; and, further, 10 that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 11 or counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor 12 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 13 the action. 14 | |
32 (Pages 337 to 338)
| | 245:13 | 241:20 247:19 | 225:12 228:21 |
|---------------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------|
| A | accused | 249:10 253:20 | 229:18 241:15 |
| ability | 221:11 309:7 | 271:13 308:10 | 242:9 243:5 249:7 |
| 244:6 | Ace | 312:7 334:9,10,21 | 252:20 253:4,17,19 |
| able | 242:25 | again | 252:20 255:4,17,19 |
| 251:20 266:15 | | 227:20,21 240:20 | 253:21 254:1,21,22 |
| 278:10 281:23 | Acting
216:7 | 250:21 257:1 259:5 | 257:5 261:11 264:3 |
| 282:12 312:15 | action | | |
| 327:19 | | 264:13 289:6 294:6 | 266:16 277:1,14,14 |
| absolutely | 338:9,13 | 294:11 295:5 | 279:8 280:6 282:13 |
| 218:9 223:24 244:25 | actively | 322:20 325:8 335:6 | 282:14 283:5,6,24 |
| 265:11 293:6,25 | 230:14 | against | 285:16,21 287:6,18 |
| 294:1 309:19 314:8 | activity | 299:17 | 290:23 294:15 |
| 329:17 335:23 | 291:7 306:19 | age | 299:14 302:19,20 |
| absurd | actors | 245:5 289:7,20,25 | 304:18 309:10 |
| 265:21 327:19 | 268:8 | 291:13,25 298:24 | 310:13 314:25 |
| abuse | acts | 318:1 | 315:14 316:3,21 |
| 223:18 | 308:1 | Agent | 320:16 326:9 330:6 |
| abused | actual | 216:9 217:5 | 332:3 335:13,14,16 |
| 291:24 298:24 | 262:5 330:7 | aggressive | 336:25 |
| accept | actually | 288:1,3 | allegation |
| 294:22,24 295:3 | 224:5 225:8,23 230:7 | ago | 219:4 223:19 276:8 |
| 316:1 | 237:22 241:8 247:6 | 243:14,16 | 301:20 302:6 |
| accepted | 255:12,25 273:15 | agree | 309:14 |
| 336:23 | 275:6 279:22 | 264:6 289:2,10 290:9 | allegations |
| access | 292:22 294:19 | 290:10 298:22 | 230:4 300:7,22 301:7 |
| 257:22 282:12,17 | 300:23 303:6 | 299:16 310:12 | 301:17 314:21 |
| accompany | 314:14 325:21 | 313:24 | 326:9 |
| 256:23 | additional | agreement | alleged |
| account | 218:20 219:1 | 217:7,12 320:14 | 294:3 |
| 222:3 223:4 227:14 | address | ahead | allowed |
| 228:23 232:8,11,25 | 219:5 289:15 292:22 | 225:21 268:22 | 258:6 |
| accountants | 302:5 | AIDS | all-time |
| 221:20 | adds | 255:25 256:1 | 284:10 |
| accounts | 234:6 | Air | almost |
| 221:19,20,22 222:20 | admitted | 234:25 | 281:25,25 |
| 223:4 226:14 229:4 | 222:13 | Alamos | along |
| 234:9 282:9 | adult | 279:7 | 224:2 232:2 267:11 |
| accurate | 293:14 | Albany | 280:16 305:18 |
| 222:23 250:8 293:23 | adults | 283:18 284:8 | 321:22 |
| 294:4 | 298:11 | Alessi | already |
| accurately | affirmatively | 308:24 | 224:11 242:22 |
| 296:6 | 220:2 | Alexander | 257:16 278:24 |
| accusation | Africa | 273:4,6 | 315:22 |
| 223:12 | 251:7 255:11,14 | all | also |
| accusations | 268:16,18 | 217:13 221:2,25 | 219:8 221:12 227:8 |
| | after | 222:22 223:1 | 229:15 234:23 |
| | I | | |
| | | | 20.90 2 |
|--------------------------------------|----------------------|-----------------------------|--------------------------|
| 267:17 268:23 | 238:5 239:5 | 290:19 301:12 | 313:15 314:20 |
| 269:13 270:25 | Angeles | 309:6,21 327:1 | 317:2 318:1,19 |
| 283:5 294:21 | 258:19 | anyone | 320:13 324:11 |
| 295:10 298:19 | angle | 219:8 264:23 279:6 | 325:3,11,14 |
| 316:8,8,9 325:22 | 277:5 | 289:24 327:6 | area |
| 329:23 | DOJ REDACTION | | 277:12 278:4,8 279:2 |
| | DOUTIEDROTION | 328:10 | |
| always
224:15 228:24 256:2 | announced | anything
218:11,15,21,22 | 284:11 289:2 |
| | announced | | areas |
| 256:19 264:6 267:7 | 294:16 | 238:25 244:5,14,17 | 289:19 291:9,10
295:7 |
| 267:15 310:9,9 | annoying | 245:13 253:18 | |
| 313:6,15 | 264:4 311:17 | 257:15 278:8 282:4 | arm |
| am | another | 282:7 287:25 288:1 | 324:6 |
| 221:6 240:1 252:4 | 227:8 233:18 236:10 | 288:5,9,10,12 | around |
| 265:21 291:4 | 238:5 246:7 271:21 | 289:20 290:19 | 220:18,19 234:6 |
| 300:15 314:8 | 272:14 276:10 | 299:14 308:13 | 237:1 251:15 |
| 335:23 338:7,10 | | 315:4 330:23 335:7 | 263:23 277:1 |
| amazing | DOJ REDACTION | 336:15 | 283:24 284:2,3,5 |
| 251:9 | | anyway | 285:22 287:1 |
| America | answer | 233:1 255:10 261:23 | 297:25 311:22 |
| 242:21 248:3,14 | 223:8 231:16 238:5 | 279:8 282:15 | 312:22 313:6,15 |
| amount | 250:5 260:20 | 290:24 321:2,7 | 315:23 316:7 333:2 |
| 325:9 | 312:21 | anywhere | arrange |
| amounts | any | 331:7 | 281:9 |
| 232:4 | 224:24 231:14,23 | APPEARANCES | arranged |
| an | 232:8,24,25 233:7 | 216:4 | 236:3 |
| 222:2 223:16 225:24 | 234:10,18 239:9 | Apple | arrested |
| 226:6 227:13 228:5 | 244:5,6,13 245:4,5 | 228:9,9,10 | 312:8 |
| 228:23,24 234:21 | 245:15 250:4 251:2 | apply | art |
| 236:2 241:4 245:14 | 251:12 257:18 | 218:7 | 323:6 |
| 250:5 251:8,10 | 260:2,9,16 264:24 | appreciate | as |
| 253:7 258:23 | 265:14 266:3,9 | 244:2 336:24 | 217:22 220:20 224:6 |
| 259:10 262:11 | 269:16 270:3,17 | approximate | 224:9 230:9,19,19 |
| 265:16,18,23 | 272:11,13 274:10 | 227:19 | 233:1,1 234:16 |
| 273:13,14 275:23 | 277:14 282:3 | approximately | 236:17,17,18,18 |
| 276:1,7 279:5 280:2 | 287:12,12,14,16 | 241:4 247:9 | 237:22,24 238:1,1,5 |
| 281:24 282:17 | 291:24 292:2,16 | are | 238:12 239:2,21 |
| 287:22 288:2 | 300:20 303:25 | 217:6,9 218:1 228:8 | 245:18,18 246:24 |
| 293:14 294:9,20 | 304:5 308:9 309:16 | 228:8,8 241:11,12 | 250:8,8 251:13 |
| 299:7 301:19 304:9 | 316:6 321:8 322:1 | 241:14 242:16 | 254:1 257:5 259:25 |
| 308:23,25 310:11 | 323:5 324:24 325:2 | 252:24 271:12 | 260:7 265:20 |
| 312:7 327:21 | 326:7,22,25 327:24 | 272:14 273:10 | 270:13 271:20 |
| analysis | 328:5 331:5,5,8 | 274:10,13 275:1 | 274:17 276:12 |
| 314:6 | 338:8,10 | 280:6 284:2 285:19 | 277:10,10,20 |
| anchor | anybody | 289:20 296:19,19 | 281:19,20 283:13 |
| 238:20,20 | 219:2,11 233:7 287:9 | 296:20 300:21,21 | 287:8,13 288:12,21 |
| Andrew | 287:11,17 289:24 | 301:7 312:10 | 289:4 290:23,23,24 |
| | | | ,,,,,,,,,,,, |
| | - | | |
|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 292:12,12 296:9,9 | 335:1,3 336:2 | a.m | 233:18 235:24 |
| 297:25,25 301:2,3 | Aston | 217:4 285:18 320:12 | 236:8 238:1 245:9 |
| 301:18 308:15,15 | 226:25 | 320:12,15 | 245:14 247:12 |
| 309:6,11,15,17,21 | astonishing | A4 | 250:8 251:9 252:9 |
| 310:21.25 311:6 | 282:3 | 333:3,3,3,6 | 253:18 256:9 |
| 313:17,17 315:13 | at | 00010,0,0,0 | 257:15 259:9 |
| 316:6 318:20 | 219:4,22,23 220:19 | В | 261:21 265:12 |
| 326:16 329:1 332:5 | 221:6,7 222:22 | baby | 266:15 277:15 |
| 336:6 | 226:14 233:7 236:2 | 303:7 | 282:7,12 284:13 |
| aside | 237:4,4,5 239:13,22 | back | 287:10,10,17,20 |
| 218:20 232:13 | 242:8,24 246:15 | 223:3 228:22 229:6 | 288:23 289:11 |
| 236:25 269:15 | 254:1,24 255:12,16 | 241:7 250:21 259:8 | 290:7,20 291:4,18 |
| 286:18 302:11,14 | 258:23 262:2,5 | 260:3 275:25 | 294:15,20 295:10 |
| ask | 264:3 273:13,13,14 | 279:23 294:23 | 297:6,14 298:8 |
| 218:10 220:7 223:10 | 273:16 277:7 | 302:15,24 314:3 | 301:23 305:24 |
| 235:17 251:16 | 279:10 280:12 | 319:20 323:11 | 306:9,13 307:6,7,7 |
| 262:16 268:9 | 282:16 284:6 | bad | 307:8,9,9,22,22 |
| 274:14 287:18 | 285:18 286:10,18 | 325:24 | 308:25 309:4 310:3 |
| 303:11 327:10 | 286:19 290:23 | bananas | 310:11,22 312:6,16 |
| 328:18 330:25 | 292:11 294:3,3,15 | 317:14 | 315:3,3 318:13,21 |
| 331:5 | 294:24 295:1 296:1 | Band | 319:13 320:7 321:6 |
| asked | 296:3,8,15 298:12 | 248:22 250:18 | 326:13,15 327:5 |
| 219:3,13 239:4,23 | 298:20 301:1 303:4 | bank | 332:2 336:3,25 |
| 251:5,17 252:8 | 306:20 308:21 | 282:14 | Beach |
| 271:19 274:15 | 309:7,10,16 310:1 | banker | 225:23 239:13 266:7 |
| 282:19 326:19 | 310:15,16,19 | 227:10 | 270:11 305:22 |
| asking | 311:24 313:5,10 | banking | 314:12 329:24 |
| 251:15 279:20 | 315:13 319:8,9 | 220:21 227:11,22 | 331:7 |
| 306:18 315:11 | 320:12 321:9 | bar | Beard |
| 316:11 327:5 | 323:13 331:11 | 301:19 | 216:10 |
| assaulted | 332:3 335:16 337:5 | barely | beautiful |
| 298:11 | ate | 330:6,7 | 316:5 |
| assistant | 232:3 | based | became |
| 217:5 311:25 | attorney | 223:12 | 227:10,11 313:5 |
| assistants | 216:6,8 338:10 | basic | 322:5 |
| 312:3 | attractive | 303:11 | because |
| Associate | 315:8 | basically | 218:3,19 219:7 |
| 216:7 | attributed | 251:17 317:8 | 222:19 223:16 |
| associated | 331:15 | basis | 225:4,14 227:12,22 |
| 260:10 278:1 312:5 | audio | 306:7 | 229:5,20,23 230:12 |
| 331:15 | 320:13 338:4,7 | be | 237:14 238:8,25 |
| association | aware | 219:19 221:20 | 240:25 242:13 |
| 263:13 | 265:9 300:16,18,23 | 222:23,24 224:20 | 243:21,24 244:2,8 |
| associations | 301:23 | 224:21 225:5 226:6 | 246:4 249:20 |
| 277:17 | Ayotte | 227:22,23 229:22 | 250:20 251:5,17 |
| assumed | 338:3,14 | 231:17 232:18 | 250:20 251:5,17 |
| assumeu | 558:5,14 | 251,17 252,10 | 252.0,9,10,10,25 |
| | | | |
| 253:18 254:1,25 | 271:1 275:8 279:3 | benefit | blur |
|---------------------|----------------------|--------------------------------|---------------------|
| 257:4 258:6 260:20 | 280:23 285:1 | 224:10 234:9 | 253:24 272:16 |
| 261:21 262:7 | 323:12 | | blush |
| | begin | besides
224:11 257:10 269:5 | 314:11 |
| 265:12,15 266:14 | | | |
| 275:6 279:16 284:1 | 301:17 | 315:23 | Bobby |
| 284:16 285:9 | beginning | best | 240:18,19,21,22 |
| 289:25 290:17,21 | 260:21 262:3 300:4 | 282:21 | 242:11 243:8 |
| 291:23 292:4 | 323:14 | better | 245:17 246:1 |
| 293:15,18296:10 | behave | 220:17 | Bobby's |
| 296:18 297:13,18 | 311:1 | between | 241:8 |
| 297:24 300:3 301:5 | behavior | 235:8 287:6 290:1 | body |
| 305:23 306:12 | 295:17 301:18 | 313:21 | 318:6 |
| 311:4,8 313:1,1 | 312:25 313:19,21 | beyond | bone |
| 314:6,7 315:15 | 314:1,11,19 | 237:3 281:19 289:4 | 241:1 |
| 316:11 317:3,12,20 | behind | 298:16,19312:3 | bonus |
| 318:22 319:17 | 277:24 334:20 | big | 224:9 |
| 321:1,3,20 324:10 | being | 231:12 251:7 332:11 | book |
| 326:10 327:19 | 220:17,22 231:25 | 332:12 | 331:16 332:5 333:25 |
| 329:1 330:22 | 232:13 244:14 | bigger | 334:3,11,24 335:11 |
| 331:10 333:4,20 | 252:19 253:1 | 309:25 | bookbinder |
| 334:20 335:13 | 258:11 289:13 | biggest | 334:8 |
| 336:3 | 311:2,7 319:20 | 233:21 279:14 280:5 | bookcase |
| become | 322:2 332:11 | 283:22 | 334:13 |
| 224:16 278:10 | 334:24 336:16,24 | bikini | bore |
| 279:22 | belief | 288:24 | 252:23 |
| becomes | 221:11 | Bill | boss |
| 312:9 | believe | 228:11 | 284:10 |
| been | 219:1 220:5,11 221:9 | billing | Boston |
| 224:17 225:2 231:9 | 226:22 230:8,12 | 319:19 | 271:20 |
| 231:11 241:17 | 232:7 233:1 234:10 | binder | both |
| 243:11 251:4 253:7 | 237:9,12,21 240:10 | 333:25 | 259:24 266:25 272:4 |
| 261:8,12,15,22 | 251:2 252:13 261:7 | birthday | 275:4 |
| 265:15 273:14 | 265:13,15 270:10 | 236:4,13 294:10,21 | bottom |
| 283:23 284:4 285:9 | 270:11 278:7 281:6 | 331:16 332:5 | 289:3 |
| 286:19,20 288:22 | 282:4 285:9 292:18 | bit | bounce |
| 291:11 305:14 | 292:23 293:10,15 | 220:15 268:24 | 279:3 |
| 307:6 310:13,20,23 | 294:15 298:23 | 285:23 309:25 | bound |
| 314:15 322:9 | 309:9 314:13 | 315:22 336:6 | 333:23 334:4 |
| 327:22 330:16 | 317:18,18 319:23 | block | box |
| 331:1 333:6,8,8 | 319:24321:7,10,17 | 280:7 | 244:8 |
| 335:2 336:21 | 321:19 325:2,15 | blowjob | boyfriend |
| before | 334:5 | 326:2 328:2,10 | 242:7 274:22 |
| 217:24 228:10 241:9 | believed | blowjobs | brain |
| 241:13,18,21 | 280:3 303:4,5,7 | 326:4,8,13,20 | 277:12 278:5 |
| 242:21 243:6 | belittling | blue | brains |
| 264:15 269:20 | 225:3 | 322:8 | 279:14 |
| | | | |
| huanahing | 201.10 202.22 24 | 200.8 210.17 | 322:5 335:6 |
|---------------------|---------------------------------------|-------------------------------|----------------------|
| branching
252:18 | 281:18 282:22,24
283:13,16 284:14 | 309:8 310:17
330:10 331:13 | 522:5 555:0
cases |
| Branson | · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · | 550:10 551:15 | 226:18 |
| 276:11,15 | 284:14,17 317:18
317:20 318:14 | 269:18,23 270:2,7 | cast |
| - | businesses | | 318:18 |
| Branson's | | can | |
| 276:7,9 | 224:23 225:8 232:1 | 217:15 222:20,21 | casting
291:2 |
| break | 252:20 283:12 | 225:19,20 226:25 | |
| 281:15 285:14,17,19 | 285:5 | 227:22,23 234:2 | catch |
| 320:9,11,12 323:12 | businessmen | 244:7 247:12 | 264:5 |
| breaks | 282:16 284:11 | 249:20 253:24 | categorical |
| 218:7 331:12 | 209-24 | 254:24 260:19 | 290:20 |
| Brin | 308:24 | 262:18,18 263:10 | categorically |
| 236:2 | buy | 265:12,25 275:6 | 235:11,12 292:2 |
| bring | 232:20 281:23 | 277:15 279:9 | 306:24 307:1 |
| 264:15 | by | 289:11,11 290:22 | 314:22 |
| British | 221:20 223:5,12,17 | 291:6 292:2 299:18 | Cathy |
| 276:3 | 233:7 234:7 235:9 | 299:23 301:1 303:8 | 338:3,14 |
| broad | 257:17 286:25 | 303:11 313:11 | celebrate |
| 289:11 | 287:7,9 291:24 | 314:22 320:19,19 | 236:12 |
| broadest | 294:11 298:24 | 325:25 327:13 | center |
| 286:15 289:12 294:7 | 305:11 317:4 334:7 | 330:6,6 | 283:18 |
| broker | 338:4,8,11 | cannot | centered |
| 227:11 | С | 318:9 | 277:1 |
| brother | cabinet | can't | central |
| 236:21,21,23 237:22 | 318:20 | 222:6 226:2 239:20 | 263:21 |
| 237:24 238:12,12 | | 247:10 249:7,21 | cert |
| 239:2 242:8 | calendar | 254:7 256:11 | 321:25 |
| brought | 300:2 | 262:24 265:5 273:1 | certain |
| 225:5,5 314:12 | caliber | 273:2 284:15 | 278:1,13 308:1 |
| 330:10 | 313:3
California | 301:13 304:15,16 | certainly |
| | | 304:16 317:12 | 222:25 226:3 239:1 |
| 332:17 | 301:19 | 333:4 | 251:6 270:10 279:2 |
| brownstone | call 242:17 296:9 301:23 | car | 284:12 290:20 |
| 322:17 334:18 | | 234:20 | 291:11 292:11 |
| build | called
225:25 236:11 279:6 | card | 298:20,23 301:13 |
| 283:16 | 294:16 | 294:10,21 | 305:13,15 318:5 |
| built | | care | 329:14 330:13 |
| 283:20,21,24 317:7 | calling
332:5 | 224:3 264:7 282:11 | CERTIFICATE |
| bulk | | Caribbean | 338:1 |
| 325:19 | came
226:1 232:8 244:8 | 236:11 237:1 276:2,2 | certify |
| bunch | | 319:13,20 | 338:3 |
| 236:5 275:18 | 259:6,15 267:11 | carry | CGI |
| business | 276:15 277:5 278:7 | 266:16 | 264:11 |
| 225:10 226:8 228:24 | 278:21 279:15,17 | cars | challenge |
| 243:6 260:16 272:4 | 282:4 285:1 296:10 | 234:14 254:2 | 298:7,9 314:1 |
| 272:7 279:25 280:2 | 296:25 297:3,12 | case | challenges |
| | • | • | • |
| 324:15 | Chris | 258:10,16 259:1,1 | comes |
|-------------------------|----------------------|---------------------|--------------------|
| challenging | 238:14,17,18,20 | 259:17,24,24 | 302:17 |
| 326:10 336:11 | 239:5 268:11 | 260:10,21 261:4 | comfortable |
| change | | 262:8 263:16 | 291:3 |
| 295:11 | 238:15,16 | 264:18 265:4,10 | coming |
| changed | Christ's | 266:3,11 268:20 | 222:5,14 224:24 |
| 295:1,7 308:7 | 325:4 | 269:21 318:5 | 232:11 260:3 280:6 |
| changing | chunks | 320:23 321:22 | 292:17 309:17,25 |
| 308:8 | 231:12 | 322:2,8 323:7 | 311:12 318:17 |
| Chappaqua | church | Clinton | communicated |
| 259:19 260:4 | 316:21 | 260:17 263:14 | 260:3 |
| characterization | circumstances | 317:13 | communicating |
| 221:3 267:14 287:5 | 219:7 247:25 298:21 | Clinton's | 237:15 |
| 296:22 | 323:2 | 249:10 320:17 | company |
| characterize | City | close | 230:1 |
| 239:21 255:4 276:1
1 | 313:12 327:3 | 238:24 267:18 | compare |
| 283:17 287:13 | civil | closest | 225:20 |
| 288:1,12 289:18 | 294:8 296:16 | 229:17 | completely |
| 295:13 309:6,17 | clad | clothed | 235:11 |
| 321:2,24 | 288:22 | 289:3 | complex |
| characterized | claims | clothes | 283:10 |
| 287:7 301:2 | 298:1 | 329:2 | component |
| characters | clarify | club | 277:9 |
| 318:19 | 229:15,16 | 284:9,9 | computer |
| charge | clarity | Coast | 279:11 |
| 217:6 228:13 | 219:1 | 259:11 | conceal |
| charged | clear | coercive | 230:15 |
| 312:10 314:15 | 245:3 248:11 295:10 | 289:17 | conceive |
| chats | 297:11 302:8 315:3 | cognition | 304:15,16 |
| 320:25 | 318:11 327:5 | 277:13 | concluded |
| check | clearly | coherent | 337:5 |
| 231:14 232:23 315:7 | 327:19 | 218:10 | concludes |
| checks | Cleveland | collected | 337:2 |
| 306:16 | 252:22 | 223:13 | concur |
| Cheryl | clever | college | 313:23 |
| 246:21 | 335:14 | 291:16 | conduct |
| chicken | clients | Columbus | 286:2,14 288:16,18 |
| 278:18,20 | 281:7 312:13 | 283:19 | 288:21 308:15 |
| child | Clinic | come | confident |
| 273:2 283:8,9 292:2 | 252:22 | 218:25 227:1 233:19 | 301:1 |
| 293:14 308:20 | Clint | 234:20 263:1,2,9 | confirm |
| 309:6,17,21,22 | 259:15 | 274:9,11 277:14 | 254:25 |
| 314:24 | Clinton | 279:10 281:3 294:8 | confusing |
| children | 247:3,20 248:6,18,24 | 301:6 303:1,19,22 | 218:11 |
| 283:6,8 295:11 | 249:17 252:5 253:8 | 309:3,13,19 318:24 | confusion |
| 309:20 | 254:19 257:11 | 330:1 | 327:11 |
| | | | |
| connections | cornered | 246:13 | 247:9 249:22,25 |
|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 243:5 | 275:24 | create | 285:15 299:13,21 |
| consensual | correct | 283:9 | 303:8,11,14,17,23 |
| 289:15 | 235:13 256:24 | created | 304:2,4,9,13,18,20 |
| consent | 289:22 292:23 | 317:6 | Davos |
| 289:6,7 | 335:22 | credentials | 261:12,13,16,21 |
| considered | could | 315:8 | 262:3,3,5 264:18 |
| 295:16 | 220:8 222:24 223:18 | creep | 265:3 |
| consistent | 227:6 231:9,11 | 318:21 | day |
| 325:21,23 326:14,16 | 236:8 251:21 253:1 | creepy | 227:12,13 275:25 |
| constantly | 256:9 260:6,6 261:8 | 310:17,21,23 311:1 | 286:11 291:17 |
| 313:14 315:11 | 262:8 264:5 282:11 | criminal | 297:22 310:6 |
| contact | 282:12 288:20,21 | 286:2 295:16 313:19 | 311:12 319:23 |
| 289:10 329:1 | 296:2,17 297:7 | 313:21 | 320:8 |
| 289:10 329:1 | 298:3 307:8,9,9,22 | cross | days |
| 283:11 | 307:23 309:13 | 279:22 | 236:14 237:2 286:11 |
| contained | 314:15 328:25 | cultural | 306:8,9 310:7 316:4 |
| 221:12 | 329:1,3 331:2 332:2 | 314:4,5 | 336:13 |
| contemporaneously | 333:5,7 | 514.4,5 | deal |
| 222:1 230:8 296:9 | couldn't | 238:5,7,16,20 239:5 | 225:9 290:12,13,21 |
| contestation | 219:2,8 263:6 285:9 | 239:5 | 299:18 |
| 298:17 | 311:3 312:6 | curious | dealings |
| context | Council | 281:22 | 260:10 |
| 260:25 261:1 274:17 | 242:24 282:16 | cute | deals |
| 307:24 313:19 | counsel | 315:3 | 225:15 |
| 321:8 | 338:7,11 | 515.5 | dealt |
| continue | count | D | 282:10 |
| 245:17 324:14 | 253:14 | dad | defend |
| continued | country | 228:22 | 291:5 |
| 246:1 321:14 | 284:9 | daily | define |
| continuing | couple | 319:11 | 286:15 288:2,20 |
| 218:5 280:22 | 235:16 237:2 286:3 | Dakotas | 289:24 310:21 |
| contracts | 316:3 320:20 | 241:2 | 329:1 |
| 283:3 | course | date | defined |
| control | 224:18 246:12 251:7 | 216:2 241:4 249:19 | 289:12 311:6 |
| 222:7,9 232:8 330:21 | 284:15 303:10 | 249:20 275:6 311:9 | defining |
| controlled | 315:8 327:14 | dated | 289:12 |
| 221:20 223:4 | covert | 275:8 | definitely |
| conversation | 313:18 | dates | 218:12 219:21 |
| 283:21 323:14 | coworkers | 243:21,23 247:8,11 | 247:23 295:2 |
| 336:10 | 318:20 | dating | 317:15 |
| conversations | coy | 242:8 | definition |
| 226:15 262:6 291:12 | 336:17 | David | 294:11 |
| 291:14,15 326:22 | co-founder | 216:13 217:21 | definitively |
| converted | 236:3 | 221:15 222:7 | 222:22 |
| 225:25 | crazy | 228:13,18 231:18 | degrees |
| | | | |
| | | | |
# 299:3 278:11 246:14,17 250:14 335:20.21 demanded 255:17 258:6 discuss done 325:12 262:20 264:8.21 277:11.12 304:5 280:22 292:9 304:14 Department 267:4 269:11 discussed 304:17 309:23 216:1 275:13 281:7 282:3 245:14 330:23 333:4 334:7 deposition 285:10 286:5.7 discussing door 296:17 287:10 288:10,11 313:20 299:4 depositions 293:21 297:24 discussion doors 291:11 301:3,9,13,22 218:6 299:1 227:1 302:24 305:16 disgusting doubt Deputy 216:6,7,10 309:3,20,21 311:23 317:23 240:1 312:1 314:1 316:7 dispute dermal Doug 324:5 317:17 318:15.23 221:3,8 233:7 300:7 248:22 250:18,19,20 250:25 254:19 319:1 321:1,25 describe disputing 254:8,16 262:5 310:4 322:1,1 326:7,8 223:1 317:16 255:6 313:11 327:21 329:10 distinct down 333:20 335:13.14 289:19 220:12 313:3 314:11 described 231:22 257:10 335:20 320:25 distinction 258:11 290:24,25 Diego 290:17 dozens 216:7 289:8.9 309:11 313:13 distressed 316:14 difference 287:14 drag 313:21 describing District 311:17 different 312:10 322:5 335:3 256:7 dress 219:16 223:11 245:9 322:8 description 335:23 256:23 258:10.11 297:7 divide driving designed 265:18 291:23 291:8 260:3 295:19 308:14 283:17 document dropped 311:11 319:22 desire 217:14 differential 224:20 does Duchess 290:1 desk 226:20,23 233:4 266:19 334:20 differently 240:5 253:24 duress detail 335:7 284:12 286:22 287:12 difficult 257:8 283:2 290:2 326:13 331:9 during details 311:17 331:25 332:1 288:16,19 295:19 331:8 dinner doesn't 302:16 304:22 developing 258:24 262:7 312:6,15 305:18 308:14 277:25 dinners 316:10 doing 277:7.10 deviant 222:4 227:16 228:6 dysfunction 323:17 324:22 325:4 310:3 dinosaur 229:3 245:4 254:17 241:1 255:19 278:24 326:7 Diddy 317:13 discoveries 293:17,18 294:13 Е 280:5 324:12 327:22 didn't Е 219:6,19 224:1 225:9 discovery dollars 217:1,1 226:7 228:10 229:3 230:13,17 237:15,20 223:14 224:9 226:12 each 229:22 231:13 257:20 267:24 229:9 230:24 302:6 232:16 243:3 245:3 268:6 335:1,8,13,15 donate
| earlier | employed | 297:3 321:3 322:6 | 308:20 309:5 |
|-------------------------------------|---------------------|-------------------------------|-----------------------------|
| 237:6 327:8 328:11 | 338:8,11 | erectile | 318:11 321:7,10 |
| early | employee | 323:16 324:21 325:3 | 324:24 327:6,25 |
| 241:6,7 247:12 | 338:10 | 326:7 | 328:7 330:14,14,15 |
| 271:12 280:22 | employer | especially | every |
| 299:12 300:25 | 254:15 | 288:23 313:9,24 | 249:7 282:10,14 |
| easier | enable | established | 283:8 310:6 311:12 |
| 261:9 | 225:13 | 243:1 | 333:17 |
| easiest | encompass | estate | everybody |
| 218:14 | 295:11.16 | 225:23,24,25 226:1 | 297:12,25 315:23 |
| East | end | Europe | 316:2,13 |
| 259:10 | 254:1 | 255:13 | everybody's |
| Eastern | ended | Eva | 316:15 |
| 280:7 | 255:19 | 243:4 303:4 | everyone |
| effort | ending | evasive | 242:13 246:8 |
| 263:19 | 220:19 | 253:18 | everything |
| egg | engage | even | 222:19 227:13 |
| 278:21 | 288:18 | 221:10,18,22,24 | 242:14 267:11 |
| egregious | engaged | 230:9,19 233:7 | 294:2 313:9 336:12 |
| 299:5 | 289:10 | 234:9 236:6 239:20 | everywhere |
| Egypt | England | 244:3 249:7 251:23 | 224:21 310:7 316:5 |
| 256:4 | 267:19 292:4 | 251:25 252:5 258:2 | evidence |
| either | enormous | 260:6 265:24 | 222:13 223:12 |
| 220:4 225:7 232:25 | 283:22 284:5 | 266:15,15 273:8 | 230:19 235:4 |
| 244:21 258:5 260:2 | entering | 288:24 292:9,11 | 299:16 309:16 |
| 273:13 274:4,9 | 308:20 | 300:22 301:9 303:5 | 335:24 |
| 288:15 289:3 293:7 | enthusiastic | 304:15,16 308:2 | exact |
| 294:19 296:4 305:6 | 262:10 | 314:17 317:17 | 241:4 257:2 |
| 306:14 309:4 321:1 | entire | 321:21 325:3 | exactly |
| 326:18 328:3 335:2 | 287:15 293:22 | 329:24 330:9 | 217:14,25 218:3 |
| elevate | 296:21 | event | 219:15 336:9 |
| 264:24 | entirety | 236:2 237:9 258:23 | example |
| Elizabeth | 283:13 | 273:13,14 | 222:14 226:6 227:7,8 |
| 274:20 275:8 | entities | eventually | 228:5 234:25 |
| Elon | 221:23,25 | 263:2 295:22 | 291:14 |
| 235:19 | entity | ever | except |
| else | 222:3 235:1 | 221:11 236:23 | 297:21 313:18 |
| 224:7 232:21 248:21 | Ep | 239:19 244:20
245:4 258:25 | excited
273:9 |
| 255:18 276:23 | 281:17
Epstein's | 260:12,16 265:10 | |
| 297:12 301:14
305:21 307:9 308:8 | 239:10 245:16 | 266:2,11 270:3 | exclusively
286:1 315:18 |
| 328:2 331:8 336:3 | 251:21 256:19 | 272:10 274:1,4 | excuse |
| email | 257:1,12 266:3 | 276:15 279:14 | 237:23 277:6 287:7 |
| 237:15 | 270:3 271:19 | 281:21 283:23 | expect |
| embezzlement | 272:10 274:2 | 303:14,23 304:5,5,9 | 224:1 310:22 336:25 |
| 230:3 | 276:15 281:18 | 304:21 305:4,25 | expected |
| | | | |
| | I | I | I |
|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 306:8 | 279:7,8 | finance | flippant |
| experience | fancy | 228:24 252:25 | 260:6 |
| 297:13 | 242:17,19 | financed | flipped |
| explain | fantastic | 225:11 226:19 | 226:4 |
| 222:24 226:21 | 251:13 | financial | Florida |
| 282:21 327:17,19 | far | 220:16 224:10 | 295:20 312:8 |
| 327:21 | 233:1 236:17,18 | 226:13 283:11 | flying |
| explained | 245:18 281:19 | financially | 239:10 240:15 |
| 242:15 297:22 | 308:15 | 224:16 338:12 | 265:23 316:4 |
| explaining | DOJ REDACTION | financier | focus |
| 287:3 | | 275:24 282:11 | 282:22 286:1 |
| expressed | far-fetched | find | folio |
| 224:20 | 316:17 | 227:22 232:24 | 332:16 333:5 |
| extent | father | 263:10 298:12 | folks |
| 277:20 336:19 | 279:16,20 | 318:23 326:10 | 217:25 218:4 240:11 |
| extraordinary | father's | fine | 254:19 257:12 |
| 223:16 251:11 | 230:1 | 246:6 329:17 | 268:9 274:13 312:3 |
| 253:23 254:1 | favors | fingertips | 316:19,20 333:13 |
| 282:18 318:19 | 303:25 304:6 318:22 | 254:24 | follow |
| extrapolating | 318:23 | finish | 218:21 320:17 |
| 317:3 | FBI | 335:11 | follow-up |
| extreme | 216:9 217:6 226:14 | first | 336:20 |
| 299:10,10 | Fe | 221:2 225:7,9,10 | food |
| ex-husband | 280:8,12 | 236:16 252:11,11 | 224:2 |
| 267:3 | feel | 252:21 253:6 | foot |
| ex-president | 219:19 291:3 | 255:11 278:21,24 | 331:9 |
| 251:13 252:12 | feeling | 295:7 296:12 297:3 | for |
| 259:15 265:23 | 256:10 | 297:7 301:23 | 216:5,12 217:6,13 |
| | feet | 315:13 322:12 | 219:1 220:17,18 |
| F | 287:19,21 305:12,15 | 323:15 | 221:1,12,13 222:13 |
| fact | 307:8,9,15 | fixation | 222:19,23 223:17 |
| 251:24 291:15,16 | Fekkai | 312:17 | 223:22 224:2,3,17 |
| 312:7 316:2 331:20 | 274:23 | fixed | 225:1,11 226:23 |
| 335:15 | felt | 324:17 | 227:7,11 228:5 |
| fair | 219:5 267:12,13,15 | flat | 229:11,16 230:25 |
| 296:7,13 312:2 325:9 | female | 245:15 266:12 | 231:3,14,21,23 |
| 328:22,23 329:12 | 267:22 | flew | 234:8,25 235:4,9 |
| fairly | fence | 265:21 310:8 312:13 | 236:2,3,4,13,15 |
| 301:1 | 313:25 | flight | 237:1 240:11 241:4 |
| false | | 258:4 259:6 268:16 | 245:24 249:14,23 |
| 220:3 235:11,13 | 266:20 | 268:17 269:5,14,15 | 250:3 251:6,18,22 |
| 297:6,14 301:2 | few | flights | 252:8,25 256:1 |
| family | 239:1,2 243:17,18 | 223:25 251:4 272:13 | 257:8,18,22 260:1 |
| 228:12,22 229:23 | 253:25 259:19 | 272:15 | 264:11 265:6 268:7 |
| 279:17 | fill | flip | 270:1 271:20 |
| famous | 258:3 | 227:6 | 274:17 275:6 |
| | | 1 | I |
| | | | rage II |
|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------|---------------------|
| 270-14-270-1-2 | 275.16 | 265-10 260-0 15 | |
| 278:14 279:1,2 | 275:16 | 265:18 268:9,15 | generally |
| 281:16 282:23 | Frederic | 269:13,15,16 275:7 | 247:5 271:12 |
| 283:5,9 284:15 | 274:23 275:7,16 | 277:23 278:7,8 | generous |
| 288:22 291:14 | freestanding | 279:17,19 280:7,23 | 225:3 |
| 293:19 294:17,20 | 224:21 | 282:4 285:19 286:6 | genuine |
| 297:21 301:8,9 | frenemy | 286:18 290:20 | 278:8 |
| 302:3 303:8 311:3 | 267:5 | 295:7,11,23 296:16 | |
| 314:24 315:5,11 | frequency | 296:17 297:7,8 | 272:18 |
| 316:3,16 317:9 | 308:15,17 319:8 | 299:21 300:4 | German |
| 318:10,17,24 | Friday | 303:22 308:18 | 279:24 |
| 319:23 325:4,7,24 | 217:4 285:20 337:4 | 312:19,19 316:15 | get |
| 326:8 328:20 331:8 | friend | 319:20 320:22 | 217:24 227:6 241:16 |
| 338:7 | 229:17 239:6 260:1 | 324:13 325:15,16 | 247:8,11 251:21 |
| Foreign | 331:6 | 325:16 326:11 | 261:25 262:8 |
| 242:24 282:17 | friendly | 327:3,24 331:16 | 281:21 284:6 293:3 |
| forgot | 229:20 262:1 267:8 | 335:17,25 | 318:6 323:9 329:21 |
| 271:18 | 267:16 270:14 | front | 330:2 333:20 |
| forgotten | 272:8 274:24,24 | 326:21 328:12 | 335:20 |
| 274:14 330:9 | 275:10 276:25 | fronts | gets |
| form | 321:6 | 312:25 | 223:11 |
| 264:24 287:12 | friends | full | getting |
| formal | 238:24,25 242:9,16 | 221:10 257:3 | 250:6 286:10 307:7 |
| 218:2 | 242:25 243:6 | fun | |
| | | 278:14 | 310:5 316:9,22 |
| former | 250:12 267:18 | | 330:5 |
| 238:20 239:16 240:3 | 270:14 272:8,23 | fund | Ghislaine's |
| 240:12 251:13 | 275:20 276:12 | 281:8,10,12 | 234:24 |
| 253:8 254:18 255:5 | 278:10 284:2,3 | funded | gift |
| 261:12,20 269:21 | 295:12 312:4 | 281:6 | 323:9 |
| 271:5 308:24 | 315:10,24 | funds | gifts |
| 320:17,22 321:4 | friendship | 226:7 281:23 282:1 | 323:6 |
| 323:6 | 224:19 265:16 267:3 | funky | girl |
| fortune | 270:22,23 271:1 | 261:11 331:9 | 300:18 304:10 |
| 279:17 | friend's | further | DOJ REDACTION |
| found | 236:10 | 338:9 | |
| 251:11 311:3,6,17 | from | | |
| 335:2 | 218:20 219:3,13,23 | G | give |
| foundation | 220:20,22 222:14 | Gates | 224:7 225:15 249:19 |
| 249:11,13 256:1 | 223:21,21 224:10 | 228:11 | 250:8 254:5,8,23,25 |
| 258:12 | 224:24,25 229:18 | gave | 261:4 274:17 |
| four | 230:15 231:14 | 224:8 225:12 304:6 | 291:25 292:17 |
| 236:14 253:15 | 233:19 234:20 | 311 :9 323 :7 | 303:20 305:7,10,22 |
| frame | 236:25 237:13,20 | Gell- | 309:3,18 328:10 |
| 300:6 | 237:20 242:16 | 280:9,10,15,15 | given |
| | 244:20 246:11,12 | 315:17 | 228:23 261:8 291:4 |
| 299:1 | 250:6 258:10 259:6 | general | 294:20 325:2 331:6 |
| Fred | 259:7,7,7 263:3,7 | 216:6,8 253:1 | 333:14,18 335:16 |
| | 1 20010,7 | | 00011,100000110 |
| | | | |
| 335:21 | 319:20 320:10 | 218:3 276:25 | 318:9 319:13 |
|----------------------|-----------------------------|----------------------|------------------------|
| giving | 323:11 325:23 | | 334:21 |
| 222:17 232:2 286:13 | 334:18,21 336:15 | groups
316:19,20 | happening |
| 294:9 303:25 304:6 | 554.10,21 550.15 | guess | 308:1 |
| 305:6 307:23 | 282:14 | 226:21 241:16 | happiness |
| 308:10,21 310:10 | golf | 275:19 295:19 | 278:7 |
| 328:7 | 284:9 | 332:16 | |
| | | Gullwing | happy
287:17 292:21 |
| gladly | gone 252:6 265:13,14 | 8 | 326:24 |
| 336:23 | | 226:24 | |
| Global | 270:9,11,12 314:23 | guy | hard |
| 249:17 260:22 261:5 | 317:9 | 275:24 310:17 | 262:4 294:20 |
| 263:16 | good | 312:13 317:24 | hardworking |
| glue | 217:3,8,10,11 223:7 | 318:6 322:3 | 312:12 |
| 333:15 334:2 | 238:1 242:9 267:18 | guys | Harvard |
| go | goodness | 227:9 252:24 275:18 | 277:1,5,19,25 280:25 |
| 218:16 220:6 223:3,4 | 228:16 | 318:16 | 281:5 |
| 225:21 229:6 | Google | Н | has |
| 232:19,20 235:16 | 236:3 | | 219:22 236:23 |
| 250:11,16 251:17 | gosh | habits | 238:12 294:16 |
| 255:17 259:20 | 284:9 298:3 318:5 | 245:6 | 299:18 316:14 |
| 262:1,8 264:8 265:3 | got | hairdresser | 330:16 336:21 |
| 265:17 266:2,11 | 224:13,13 227:10 | 274:23 | hats |
| 268:22 271:23,23 | 232:19 244:20 | half | 284:18 |
| 275:10,13,14,15 | 250:22 280:16 | 297:23 336:13 | haven't |
| 276:12 280:10 | 285:3 319:3 321:22 | Hamptons | 244:5,6 274:11 |
| 291:16 293:7 300:4 | 322:10,25 323:3 | 273:15 | having |
| 302:15,25 304:10 | gotten | handing | 226:15 262:7 264:18 |
| 316:3 318:1,5 335:6 | 319:25 | 306:9 | 273:8 277:24 |
| goal | Gould | hands | 319:11 323:17 |
| 224:15 | 277:4,4 278:6 | 245:7 | 328:1 329:4 |
| God | government | handwriting | head |
| 240:16 327:2 | 222:12,13 223:12 | 331:21 332:1 | 241:16 255:1 330:1 |
| going | 230:19 | hang | health |
| 217:25 218:2,16 | grab | 247:6 266:24 | 240:19 |
| 222:18 228:22 | 303:21 | hanging | hear |
| 232:20 234:2 | grand | 219:6 | 286:18 316:23 |
| 235:24 245:7 | 335:17 | happen | 317:25 |
| 247:12,18 250:13 | great | 290:24 292:6 301:3,4 | heard |
| 252:23 255:1,17 | 284:10 | 317:18 | 267:11 280:24 283:1 |
| 262:15 265:10,18 | grift | happened | 286:19,20 324:14 |
| 281:14,16 285:7 | 285:10 317:19 | 222:16 226:19 | 330:14,17,20,24,25 |
| 290:13 291:2,25 | grifter | 242:14 252:5 | 331:1,5,9 |
| 293:9 297:17 | 285:6 | 261:10 286:23 | heavy |
| 309:18 314:11,21 | grounds | 292:15 296:2,3,6 | 261:25 332:23,24 |
| 316:3,9,16,21 | 225:24 | 297:21 298:13 | 333:4,11 |
| 317:25 318:1,6 | group | 301:14 306:24 | helicopter |
| | | I | |
| 221:13 222:21 | 294:16,17 309:11 | 312:3,4,9,25 313:6 | 283:21 287:2 297:3 |
|------------------------------|----------------------|----------------------|---------------------|
| 223:6 231:1,9,12 | he'd | 314:1 315:24 | 297:25 301:6 |
| 265:21,22 | 287:20,21 307:7 | 316:18 317:20 | 302:23,25 303:2 |
| helmets | he'll | 319:12,18,18 321:9 | 308:21,22 309:1 |
| 284:18 | 326:20 | 322:15 324:6,21 | 321:9 322:6 |
| help | he's | 325:13,22 326:11 | houseman |
| 241:10 260:24 264:1 | 232:3 238:13 312:8,9 | 327:23 329:24 | 305:22 306:15 |
| 327:24 | 316:19,22 317:22 | 334:13,20 | houses |
| | , | hit | 226:1 283:24 319:18 |
| helped
251:3,21 260:23,24 | 317:23,23 321:3 | 279:17 | |
| · · · · | 327:3,22 | | how |
| 264:15 | hid | hold | 217:9 220:12 222:24 |
| helpful | 335:24 | 243:21 259:5 | 228:7,7 235:18,21 |
| 300:2 302:3 336:21 | hide | holding | 236:6 240:24 247:1 |
| helping | 312:15,21 | 243:22 257:1 | 247:24,24 250:19 |
| 232:1,1 263:18 | hideous | Hollywood | 253:15 255:11 |
| Henry | 322:19,22 | 268:9 | 256:25 257:9 |
| 242:23 275:22,23 | high | home | 260:19 261:10 |
| her | 253:22 291:15,19 | 260:4 | 267:13,15 268:13 |
| 219:23,23,24 228:13 | 313:2 332:25 | homes | 269:3 271:8 272:22 |
| 234:25 235:2 241:9 | Hillary | 283:23 | 273:19 278:9,9,10 |
| 247:5,25 259:3 | 259:1,17,24 260:10 | honestly | 278:10 280:7 |
| 266:22,24,24,25 | himself | 271:14 | 281:18,22 282:20 |
| 267:3,15,16,17 | 246:14 261:1,4 264:2 | honor | 283:17 284:24,25 |
| 269:20,25 270:21 | 283:21 301:5 | 251:8 253:7 | 287:2,25 289:11 |
| 270:21,22,23,23 | 306:14 327:20 | Horn | 293:1 295:1 296:25 |
| 271:1 293:13,13,15 | his | 216:9 217:3,5 285:16 | 297:23 298:4,5 |
| 293:21,24,24 | 221:20 229:13,17 | 285:19 320:10,13 | 308:6 310:18 312:7 |
| 294:17,18,20 | 230:16 236:4,21 | 337:2 | 312:7,15 317:11 |
| 296:16,21 299:21 | 237:21 238:11,13 | horrible | 327:6,18 328:6 |
| 300:8,16 301:6,6,6 | 239:1 240:15 242:8 | 298:4 | 332:6 333:15,23 |
| 301:7,9,23 303:20 | 243:4 249:11 255:6 | host | however |
| 309:7,9,10,10,11,12 | 255:20 256:1 | 278:19 | 285:24 286:14 |
| 315:9 | 258:12 261:21 | hostility | 295:13 314:10 |
| here | 262:5,9,20,20,24 | 267:9 | 321:24 |
| 217:6,16,17 218:1,1 | 263:9 264:11,18 | hosting | hug |
| 245:14 264:25 | 266:16 270:12 | 258:22 | 288:11 |
| 290:12 291:4 | 272:3,23 273:2,3,13 | hotel | huge |
| 293:19 299:14 | 273:14,19 274:1 | 253:2 | 225:4 |
| 303:21 312:10 | 275:23 279:23 | hour | humanitarian |
| 314:6,8 316:7 318:2 | 281:7,19 282:19 | 285:23 | 256:3 |
| 322:24 | 286:1 287:2,19,21 | hours | hundreds |
| hereby | 287:21 297:24 | 227:6 336:13 | 229:8 |
| 338:3 | 299:17 301:18,24 | house | hunting |
| here's | 303:7 305:12,15 | 234:20 246:24 252:7 | 241:2 |
| 227:8 | 307:8,9,15 308:15 | 259:19,21 270:12 | 271.2 |
| herself | 310:1 311:24,25,25 | 273:14,16 277:7,13 | Ι |
| nersen | 510.1 511.24,25,25 | 275.14,10 277.7,15 | |
| | | | |
| idea | individuals | 311:24 | Iranian |
|-----------------------------|-------------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 235:8 250:4 262:11 | 235:15 239:9 253:4 | interlocutor | 302:23 |
| | 254:17,18 300:10 | 327:21 | island |
| 264:7,11,14,15,17
327:17 | information | interrogate | 236:10 237:1 239:13 |
| | | | |
| ideas | 220:21 250:9
initial | 279:24
interrupt | 259:6,7,11,15 |
| 255:9 311:9 | | | 265:10,14,19 270:4 |
| identify | 217:13,15,22 314:11 | 218:12 299:13 302:1 | 270:12 274:5 |
| 274:8 | Initiative | 303:8 | 275:23 276:1,7,9,15 |
| image | 249:17 260:22 261:5 | interrupted | 281:24 288:23 |
| 310:18 | 263:16 | 218:18 | 310:8 312:14 316:3 |
| imagine | insert | intervievi. | 316:20 319:23 |
| 265:25 269:25 | 264:2 | 216:1 337:3,5 | 321:11 329:23 |
| 304:16 | insider | into | 331:7 335:2 |
| immediately | 228:14 | 223:4 226:1 231:19 | Islands |
| 289:21 | instance | 232:8,11 234:9 | 276:4 |
| importance | 221:13 226:23 301:8 | 243:17,18 245:18 | issue |
| 264:25 | institute | 246:2 252:20 255:1 | 219:10 221:7 223:11 |
| important | 279:5,6,9 280:8,13 | 279:25 280:1 291:8 | 285:22 289:15 |
| 314:5 335:15,24 | institutions | 293:3 304:10 307:4 | 312:17 317:11 |
| impossible | 278:2 | 308:23 317:7,22 | 324:16 |
| 219:12 | instruct | introduce | issues |
| inappropriate | 327:4,6 | 314:19 315:9,15 | 272:14 298:9 323:17 |
| 244:14,18 245:4,5,8 | intelligence | introduced | 324:24 |
| 245:9 | 279:23 | 280:10 292:13 | items |
| inaudible | interaction | introductions | 335:15 |
| 227:12 | 287:23 | 218:3 | its |
| inches | interactions | intuition | 283:13 319:9 |
| 332:14,14,25 | 319:10 | 267:22 | it'll |
| included | intercourse | investigation | 227:22 279:10 |
| 284:8 286:14 312:22 | 318:12 328:2 | 295:20 314:12,15 | it's |
| including | interest | investigator | 217:13,19 218:3 |
| 335:16 | 228:24 234:21 278:8 | 226:14 | 219:9,12 220:6,12 |
| increased | 279:2 280:3 287:5,8 | investing | 225:4 235:24 |
| 308:18 | 321:3 322:1 | 228:8 | 237:19 238:1 |
| incredible | interested | invigorating | 247:11 254:1,2 |
| 253:21 262:11 | 252:24 278:4 287:4 | 311:7 | 257:8 260:5 261:9 |
| independent | 315:10 322:2 | invite | 261:19,25 264:7,14 |
| 224:16,20,24 252:19 | 338:12 | 277:13 | 266:14 268:3,4,5 |
| 261:9 265:16 | interesting | invited | 276:19 279:6 280:3 |
| 270:18,24 | 311:4,5 315:12,17 | 250:11,16 259:22 | 283:22 284:16,18 |
| independently | 317:23 | involve | 285:8,8 298:16,19 |
| 224:16 271:23 | interests | 301:5 | 299:9,10 300:1 |
| indications | 283:16 | involved | 301:2,2,3 302:2 |
| 230:14 | interfaced | 239:22 260:25 261:3 | 310:10 311:5 313:8 |
| indiscernible | 311:22 | 295:12,12 319:17 | 315:18 317:12,14 |
| 220:7 277:22 331:4 | interfacing | 338:9 | 317:14 318:14,19 |
| | | | |
| | | | 2 |
|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------|---------------------|
| 324:12 325:12 | 335:17 | 316:17 321:15 | latent |
| 332:14 336:4,11,22 | Justice | 322:5 325:14 | 267:9 |
| I'd | 216:1 | 326:14 327:9 | later |
| 222:22 233:16 252:8 | | | 233:19 234:4 237:7 |
| | justify | 335:10 336:14,22 | |
| 282:12 301:23 | 314:7 | kinds | 253:5 295:8 308:10 |
| 304:23 318:13 | juveniles | 252:20 | 312:9 |
| I'll | 298:11 | knew | Latin |
| 217:25 218:9 251:16 | К | 221:25 227:5 237:11 | 248:14 |
| 254:25 323:16 | | 238:11 239:5 240:9 | law |
| 327:10 336:6,14 | Kate | 240:14,19,22 241:7 | 290:2 314:17 |
| I've | 294:16 | 241:12 243:19 | lawsuits |
| 223:22 224:17 225:2 | keep | 260:9 262:15,20 | 274:10 294:9 |
| 236:22 244:1 | 334:12 | 268:10,11 269:20 | lawyer |
| 267:16 273:3 | keeps | 269:23 272:19 | 246:24 331:12 336:7 |
| 278:25 283:23 | 334:2 | 275:7 291:22 292:1 | lawyers |
| 284:4,5 292:5 305:1 | | 293:13,14 294:12 | 218:8 233:7 302:12 |
| 316:2 331:1 336:5,6 | 311:22 | 297:4,14 301:5 | 336:19 |
| | Kennedy | 325:23 330:22 | layer |
| J | 239:6 240:3,9,13,18 | knowing | 298:25 315:21 |
| Jane | 240:21 242:11 | 334:24 | Leah |
| 292:19 300:7 301:5 | 243:8 244:13,14,18 | knowledge | 216:14 234:23 235:4 |
| Jarecki | 245:17 246:1,1 | 237:17 246:4,5 270:6 | 238:14,16 267:24 |
| 275:23 | 330:9 | 280:3 323:10 | 268:1 273:4,6 |
| Jay | Kennedy's | known | 284:20 |
| 277:4,4 278:6 | 241:13 | 227:9 | leaked |
| job | kept | knows | 336:3 |
| 253:21 279:23 | 246:14 268:24 269:8 | 297:20 299:19 | least |
| 305:21 306:4,13 | 286:6 | 277.20 277.17 | 219:4 246:15 301:2 |
| 315:14 | Kerry | L | leather |
| John | 238:9,25 239:16,17 | lack | 335:11 |
| 239:16 240:12 | 240:13 | 220:17 | leather-bound |
| 308:23 | Kevin | land | |
| 500.25 | 269:12 | 226:1 | 332:11 334:11 |
| 274:20 | key | large | leave |
| joke | 264:16 297:24 | 233:18 283:21 | 219:6 252:17 279:4 |
| 228:18,20 | kids | 289:15 | 286:22 |
| joked | | | leaving |
| | 272:24,25 273:13,19 | Larry
271:4 318:4 | 320:7 |
| 327:2 | 274:1 283:6 317:24 | | left |
| Jon | kind | last | 217:15 247:20 |
| 273:1 | 217:13,24 218:7,21 | 258:15 266:21,22 | 249:10 255:18 |
| journals | 220:17 226:15 | 282:20 284:18 | 297:19 304:14 |
| 280:2 | 251:17 253:5,6 | 297:22 319:2 | legal |
| July | 254:9 264:18 | 323:12 331:14 | 244:7 333:8 |
| 216:2 217:4 285:20 | 278:12 281:15,18 | late | Lehman |
| 337:4 | 286:1,4 292:15 | 230:19 258:17 | 282:14 |
| jury | 302:5 310:13 | 299:12 | lent |
| I | I | I | I |
| 226:7 | 291:18 | 222:22 223:3 226:25 | M |
|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|--------------------|
| less | likes | 227:23 232:23 | 338:3,14 |
| 288:22 | 326:20 | 279:9 292:24 | machine |
| let | limited | 302:24 309:15 | 265:23 |
| 218:9 223:10 232:19 | 227:5 244:10 | 315:5 331:20,25 | made |
| 241:7 299:13 | line | 332:1 | 227:5,16 301:19 |
| 328:18 | 303:12 | looked | 317:22 |
| letter | list | 285:11 288:1,11 | Madrigal |
| 268:1 331:14,18,19 | 282:18 329:25 330:4 | 309:12 310:18 | 216:15 |
| 331:23 333:8 | 330:5,12,13,16,16 | 332:6 | main |
| letters | 330:18 | looking | 308:22 |
| 333:14,15,16 335:8 | listen | 241:4 252:25 287:13 | major |
| let's | 321:1 | 295:15 309:14 | 243:4 277:8 278:6 |
| 222:3 223:2 241:16 | listened | looks | 279:16 282:15 |
| 277:16 289:23 | 282:24 | 226:14 332:2,13 | make |
| 290:21 291:8 300:9 | literally | loosely | 233:4 235:7 245:3 |
| 309:4 320:9 327:5 | 246:10,11 307:15 | 269:1 319:18 | 248:11 251:20 |
| Levine | little | Los | 281:9 284:2 290:16 |
| 250:21 | 220:15 260:5 266:19 | 258:19 | 326:24 327:10 |
| library | 268:24 271:13 | lost | makes |
| 334:1 | 285:23 308:5 | 273:3 300:3 317:9 | 233:5 |
| license | 309:25 315:22 | lot | making |
| 227:11,22 | 336:6 | 218:19 223:23 | 270:22 281:20 |
| lie | live | 227:16 229:5 | 300:22 |
| 230:15 296:20 297:7 | 281:19 | 230:13,13,20 232:2 | man |
| 324:18 | living | 244:1 246:14 | 245:4,15 251:10 |
| lied | 302:23 310:22 | 253:16,16,17 255:4 | 280:18 317:17,21 |
| 296:16 | loads | 257:4,8 272:7 | 318:22 |
| life | 254:22 | 273:21 274:12,12 | manage |
| 223:23 232:2 240:6,7 | loaned | 278:24 281:6 282:8 | 302:25 |
| 246:11,12 254:9 | 225:12 | 282:8 287:22 | manager |
| 284:5 310:2 311:25 | logbook | 293:10 311:2 | 253:1 |
| 314:23 319:13 | 257:25 258:1 | 312:13 313:16 | mandatory |
| 327:23 | logs | 336:18 | 278:14 |
| lifestyle | 257:15,16,18,19,23 | lots | Manhattan |
| 310:22 313:13,22 | 258:4 | 229:8 256:8 | 334:15,16 |
| 316:1,18 317:12 | London | loved | manifests |
| lift | 242:16256:14,15 | 230:16 | 258:4 |
| 261:25 | 266:10 | lucky | manner |
| light | long | 227:15 | 218:10 |
| 313:9 | 219:9243:6,13,15 | lying | many |
| liked | 271:21285:24 | 324:19 | 220:18,18223:17 |
| 228:9 267:2,19 311:7 | 330:8 | L.A | 224:3 236:6,6 |
| 321:22 325:11 | longstanding | 258:23 268:25 | 253:14,15 256:25 |
| 326:4,23 327:22 | 242
. ' | | 257:9 267:17,17 |
| likely | look | M | 280:6 298:10 313:2 |
| | | | |
| 313:2 331:1 | 303:15,24 304:25 | 265:6 267:5 268:25 | 259:3 273:9 275:19 |
|---------------------|---------------------|--------------------|----------------------|
| Mark | 305:5,16,25 306:7,8 | 270:14 275:16 | 280:21 293:12,13 |
| 216:10 | 306:20 311:12 | 276:10 281:4 | 293:21,24 294:18 |
| market | 315:7 328:1 331:6 | 287:10 288:10 | 309:10 315:11 |
| 275:25 | masseuses | 291:9 292:3 297:25 | 336:24 |
| Markus | 244:15,20 302:21 | 306:2 313:17 318:8 | meeting |
| 216:13 217:20,21 | 304:5 305:19 315:5 | 318:15 323:9 329:2 | 239:21 258:21 |
| 218:8 221:15 222:7 | 319:11 325:10 | 329:19 331:3 | meetings |
| 228:13,18 231:18 | 326:17 328:12 | mean | 282:8,24 |
| 247:9 249:22,25 | 331:2 | 224:1 225:2 229:25 | Melissa |
| 285:15 297:16 | massive | 233:6 238:19 | 216:15 |
| 299:13,21 303:8,11 | 232:4 | 240:14242:15 | memories |
| 303:14,17,23 304:2 | masturbate | 243:20 244:25 | 219:1 |
| 304:4,9,13,18,20 | 304:25 305:5 325:13 | 245:2,2,8 246:4 | memory |
| 306:18 336:14 | 326:20 | 249:6 250:1 251:2 | 220:4,9 231:14 232:9 |
| married | masturbating | 251:12 252:22 | 232:13 235:25 |
| 238:9 241:13 303:6 | 304:22 325:22 | 259:25 262:11 | 236:15 237:13,14 |
| Marshal | 328:12 329:4 | 267:16,16 269:9 | 237:25 266:8 |
| 216:10 | masturbation | 272:14,14 273:3 | 268:25 270:18 |
| Martha's | 326:16 | 275:13,14,17 278:5 | 273:17 294:15 |
| 259:8 | matched | 278:7,24 279:2 | 296:14 314:14 |
| | 229:4 | 284:9 286:25,25 | 327:1 329:6 332:2 |
| 226:25 27-? | material | 287:9 290:5,13 | men |
| Marvin | 244:7 | 291:17,18 292:4,7 | 313:16,16 318:7,8 |
| 276:24 | math | 294:11,14 296:11 | mention |
| Mary | 306:6 | 303:22 304:23 | 282:11 |
| 241:8 242:8 | mathematician | 305:11,24 307:5,6 | mentioned |
| Mar-a-Lago | 277:3 | 307:18 310:16 | 238:3 239:15 |
| 219:3,5,22 | mathematicians | 311:16 314:24 | Mercedes |
| massage | 277:18 | 316:6 317:14 318:2 | 226:24,24 |
| 244:20 286:16 | mature | 323:8 324:23 325:7 | merely |
| 287:19,21 288:22 | 309:12,14 | 325:8 334:7 | 291:25 |
| 291:25 292:17 | may | meaning | met |
| 303:14,20,23 | 219:2 222:15 234:20 | 234:8 249:11 261:4 | 218:1 219:4 220:7 |
| 304:10,22,24 305:1 | 245:9 260:24,25 | 278:11 292:16 | 229:18 235:23 |
| 305:6,7,14,17 307:7 | 261:8 263:2 264:1 | 319:10 320:22 | 236:17,23,24 237:4 |
| 308:21 309:3,18 | 269:10 270:7,9,11 | means | 237:5 239:1,1,18,19 |
| 316:22 318:7 319:4 | 270:12,16 272:12 | 230:9 281:19 | 239:19,24 241:9,18 |
| 319:25 331:3,6,8 | 273:8 281:3 296:11 | media | 241:21,22 242:21 |
| massages | 300:23 327:1 330:8 | 338:4 | 242:22 243:6 247:2 |
| 286:10,11,13 288:16 | 331:6,12 | medicine | 247:5 248:1 249:6 |
| 288:19 302:18,20 | maybe | 252:22 | 251:25 252:6,7,9,10 |
| 305:10 308:9,10 | 218:23 219:9 222:1 | meet | 252:13 259:17 |
| 310:6,7,10 316:9 | 222:19 223:10 | 219:24 235:21 | 268:16,24 269:20 |
| 329:21 330:2,5 | 226:2,3 236:7 | 236:20 242:11 | 269:25 271:1,9 |
| masseuse | 255:14 257:14 | 247:25 258:25 | 273:7,8,11,12,16 |
| millionsmoneymoving287:5 289:18223:13,14 226:11220:21,25 221:4,12232:24 307:3,4 308:5290:20,20,24 296:3229:8,9 230:23,24221:12,15 222:16Ms296:12,15 297:13Mills222:17,20 223:3217:7,8 218:5 219:21298:3,7,9 299:11246:21 247:1,2 248:1226:7,16,20,21248:15 269:23306:13 313:25mind227:16 229:8,14270:2 298:4 299:3314:14,23,24224:22 244:11230:20,22 232:4,13320:14 337:3315:14,14 318:5,6274:11 279:4232:17,24 233:8much318:14 325:7282:15 286:22234:5,8,11,19,22229:22 253:22 267:2326:11 327:2289:18 292:14261:4,8 281:19272:15 275:14330:10 332:1,1295:6 298:7,9305:22 306:10,15277:10 282:10338:5299:11 302:9 330:1money's292:5 297:25 299:5myself | | | | |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|--------------------|----------------------|-----------------------------------------|
| 293:15 295:7,12 minute 308:5 309:13 Musk 300:8 308:8 315:6 279:10 281:15 315:22 324:10 235:19,22 236:15 315:10,16 318:17 296:16 morning 237:3,11 239:4 266:6 270:4,13 274:5 298:5 297:17 316:22 236:12 37:24 279:5,9 281:25 297:23 most 217:4 218:10 221:1 288:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 224:23 225:1,5 226:33 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 207:23 33:8 317:11 mother 232:23 232:22 32:22 22:22 22:22 20:32 233:8 317:11 move 230:21 23:22 32:15 235:25 23:6:14 20:24 22:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 240:7 241:16 244: 237:31,14 225:1 20:24 22:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 240:7 241:16 244: 235:19 23:9,14,22 230:21 23:23:23 23:11 25: 20:24 22:14 22:42 303:1 308:22,23 321:15 264:11,14 267:3,2 235:12 23:11 25: 2111 303:1 234:19 279:16,17,20 235:21 307:3;4 308:5 290:20,20,24 249:6: | 276.8 278.23 | 276.24 | 201.0 18 200.5 | 311.10 |
| 300:8 308:8 315:6
315:10,16 318:17
323:15 308,8 279:10 281:15
296:16 315:22 324:10
morning 235:19,22 236:15
237:31,11 239:4 Mexico 298:5 297:17 316:22
331:14 235:19,22 236:15
237:31,12 39:4 Yexico 298:5 297:17 316:22
331:14 236:21 237:24
most Zorosoft 296:5 297:23 most 224:15,18,19,20,22 Microsoft 296:3 most 224:22 225:1,5 Zors, 10,022 233:3 296:3 mosty 224:22 22:22:22 229:
263:3 299:9 277:19,22,25 281:1 midel 277:19,22,25 281:1 mother 235:25 236:14 307:22 333:8 317:11 move 235:25 236:14 200:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 236:12 324:11 235: 230:24 231:15,22 303:1 234:12 236:12 324:12 255:1 200:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 models movig 239:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:12 233:13,14 226:11 313:12 movig 239:14 236:17 279: 239:16,17,20 232:23 321:14 267:32 | | | - | |
| 315:10,16 318:17 296:16 morning 237:3,11 239:4 Mexico 298:5 297:17,38,10 281:17 236:6 270:4,13 274:5 279:5,9 281:25 misperception 297:17 316:22 231:14 my 217:3,810 281:17 296:3 297:17 316:22 217:4 218:10 221:1 288:5 most 217:4 218:10 221:1 224:23 225:1,5 288:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 277:8,10,22 228:1 middle 314:9 295:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 might 217:19,22,25 281:1 mouther 232:22,22,22 222:22,22,22 229:22 203:23 299:9 MIIT 233:5 312:3 244:11 247:3,11 307:22 333:8 317:11 move 233:21 234:2 288:3 240:7 241:16 244: 279:21 243:5 312:3 movie 237:13,14 25:5 230:24 231:15,22 modeling 230:21 234:12 24:12 24:12 24:12 239:12 24:12 24:12 24:12 24:12 233:22 23:4,34,5,6 326:11 313:12 287:5 289:18 290:20,20,24 24:26:22 233:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,21 239:6 247:1,2 | , | | | |
| 323:15 330:8,8 misperceived
298:5 217:3,8,10 281:17
297:17 316:22 Musk's 266:6 270:4,13 274:5
279:5,9 281:25 297:23 most 217:4 218:10 221:11 316:20 329:23 missed 282:15 224:15,18,19,20,22 Microsoft 296:3 most 227:23 225:1,5 233:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 23:2 219:12 259:9 269:11 mob 286:10 329:15 235:25 236:14 207:23 move 233:21 234:2 288:3 237:13,14,25,25 219:12 259:9 269:11 mob 286:10 329:15 235:25 236:14 207:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 306:22,23 321:15 235:25 236:14 210:24 22:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 256:13 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 modeling moved 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 movie 279:6 277:17,20 223:3 211:14,12 26:11 220:20:20:22,24:12 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 230:21 297:13 221:14 25 22:16 modus moving 287:15 284:2,3,3,5 million | | | | , · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · |
| Mexico 298:5 297:17 316:22 236:21 237:24 266:6 270:4,13 274:5 297:23 331:14 my 217:24 218:10 221:1: 279:5,9 281:25 296:3 most 224:15,18,19,20,22 224:23 225:1,5 228:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 most 228:22,22,22 229: 263:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 228:22,22,22 229: 219:12 259:9 269:11 307:22 333:8 317:11 moth 233:25 236:14 307:22 333:8 317:11 moved 237:13,14,25,25 military 243:5 312:3 244:11 247:8,11 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 models 303:1 234:19 277:16,720 233:22 234:3,45,6 326:11 313:12 moving 28:15 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 290:20,20,24 296: 223:8,9 230:23,24 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 223:12 24:11 230:20,22 23:4,13 306:13 313:25 < | - | | | , |
| 266:6 270:4,13 274:5
279:5,9 281:25
Microsoft misperception
297:23 331:14
most my 212:15
228:10 296:3
misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22
mostly 224:23 225:1,5
224:23 225:1,5 228:10 314:9 296:3
mostly 222:22,22,22 229:1,2
229:17,23 231:2 233:2 399:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 219:12 259:9 269:11
307:22 333:8 317:11 move 237:13,14,25,25 military modeling moved 237:13,14,25,25 20:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 318:22 24:07 241:16 244: 230:24 231:15,22 models 308:22,23 321:15 264:11,14 267:3,27 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 313:12 282:15 244:21 229:6 277:16,20,21 233:24 237:13,14 226:11 220:24 222:17,20 223:3 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 298:37,9 299:11 224:25 244:11 220:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:25,6 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:17,20 223:3 227:15 275:14 230:12 305:21 229:8,18 292:14 226:7,16 20,21 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 306:12 130:25 299:11 302:9 330:1 320:12 3 | | | | |
| 279:5,9 281:25 297:23 most 217:4 218:10 221:11 316:20 329:23 missed 282:15 224:15,18,19,20,22 Microsoft 296:3 mostly 224:23 225:1,5 228:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 227:8,10,22 228:1;5 middle 314:9 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 might 277:19,22,25 281:1 mouth 232:8 234:11 235: military model 232:21 234:2 288:3 240:7 241:16 244: 279:21 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 million models 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 303:1 234:19 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 313:12 286:75 289:18 220:24 222:14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:12,2 248:1 230:20,20,24 2496: 233:13:14 226:11 224:15 222:12 239:6 247:12,2 248:1 230:20,20,24 2496: 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 296:12,15 297:13 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,2 22:4,17 239:6 247:12,2 | | | | |
| 316:20 329:23 missed 282:15 224:15,18,19,20,22 Microsoft 296:3 mostly 224:23 225:15 228:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 mostly 224:23 225:15 228:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 mostly 227:8,10,22 228:12 263:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 299:17,23 231:2 might 277:19,22,25 281:1 mouth 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 237:13,14,25,25 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 256:15 | | | | | | | | |
| Microsoft 296:3 mostly 224:23 225:1,5 228:10 nisunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 227:8,10,22 228:1 middle 314:9 mother 228:22,22,22 229: 2063:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 might 277:19,22,25 281:1 mother 235:25 236:14 307:22 333:8 317:11 move 235:25 236:14 209:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 312:3 244:11 247:8,11 200:24 221:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 256:13 29:55 230:24 221:14 224:9 230:31 234:19 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus moving 287:5 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 230:21 30:21 305:21 223:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296: 296:12,15 297:13 224:12 247:1,2 248:1 220:22,25 23:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 230:21 30:5:21 248:15 269:23 206:12,15 297:13 244:11 279:4 230:20,22 23:4,13 300:10 332:1 30:5:21 306:13 31:25 | , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | | | |
| 228:10 misunderstand 306:11,14 329:22 227:8,10,22 228:11 middle 314:9 293:25 301:7 228:22,22,22 229: 233:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 might 277:19,22,25 281:1 mother 232:28 234:11 235: 307:22 333:8 317:11 move 237:13,14,25,25 million 230:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 230:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 modus moved 237:13,14,26,25 232:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 313:12 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 313:12 287:5 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 290:20,20,24 296:2 234:19 277:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,42,27.9 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 220:21,22 23:22 230:21 305:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 246:22 244:11 230:20,22 23:24,13 | | | | |
| middle 314:9 mother 228:22,22,22 229: 263:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 might 277:19,22,25 281:1 mouth 232:8 234:11 235: 219:12 259:9 269:11 317:11 move 237:13,14,25,25 military 243:5 312:3 244:11 247:8,11 200:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 264:11,14 267:3,22 230:24 231:15,22 303:1 234:19 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 306:1 move 287:5 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296: 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 moving 287:5 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296: 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296: 246:12 247:1,2 248:1 224:23 225:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:21,305:21 305:21 246:12 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 246:12 247:1,2 248:1 | | | | , |
| 263:3 299:9 MIT 293:25 301:7 229:17,23 231:2 might 277:19,22,25 281:1 mouth 232:28 234:11 235: 219:12 259:9 269:11 mob 235:25 236:14 235:25 236:14 moit 235:25 236:14 237:13,14,22,25 military model 233:21 234:2 288:3 244:11 247:8,11 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 move 255:5 230:24 231:15,22 models moves 264:11,14 267:3,2' 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 models moves 264:11,14 267:3,2' 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 models moves 264:11,14 267:3,2' 223:13,14 226:11 money 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:1 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:1 290:20,20,24 296:1 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:1 290:20,20,24 296:1 229:17,24 233:8 220:21,25 221:4,12 233:21 30:61 3 313:25 316:1 3 13:25 316:1 3 13:25 millions 206:12,15 297:13 209:11 303:13 33:25 | | | , | |
| might
219:12 259:9 269:11
307:22 333:8 277:19,22,25 281:1
mob
317:11 mouth
286:10 329:15 232:8 234:11 235:
235:25 236:14 279:21 model 232:21 234:2 288:3 240:7 241:16 244:
243:5 240:7 241:16 244:
243:5 200:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 moved 250:3 252:18 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 moved 250:3 252:18 232:21 234:3,4,5,6 modus movie 279:16,17,20 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 306:11 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 millions money 200:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296: 229:8,9 20:32,324 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296: 296:12,15 297:13 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 224:23 225:4,112 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 298:3,7,9 299:11 203:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 316:14 4,23,24 271:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 315:14,14 318:5,6 242:12 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 271:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23, | | | | |
| 219:12 259:9 269:11
307:22 333:8 mob 286:10 329:15 235:25 236:14 307:22 333:8 317:11 move 237:13,14,25,25 million modeling 312:3 244:11 247:8,11 279:21 modeling moved 250:3 252:18 230:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 models moved 250:3 252:18 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus movie 279:16,17,20 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 millions 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:1 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 296:12,15 297:13 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 296:12,15 297:13 Mills 222:7,16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 274:11 279:4 235:22 306:10,15 318:14 325:7 326:11 327:2 289:15 286:22 234:58,11,19,22 | | , | | | | | , |
| 307:22 333:8 317:11 move 237:13,14,25,25 military 243:5 312:3 240:7 241:16 244: 279:21 modeling 232:21 234:2 288:3 312:3 million modeling 230:22 22:1 234:2 288:3 312:3 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 models 308:22,23 321:15 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:11 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 moved 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:2 233:3,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 290:20,20,24 296:2 298:3,7,9 299:11 234:5 money 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:2 296:12,15 297:13 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 209:23 306:13 313:25 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 209:23 306:13 313:25 248:15 230:20 22:24:41 230:20,20 22:44:11 230:20,20 22:44:11 230:20,20 22:44:11 230:12,32:4 249:12 24:21 24:11 230:20,20 22:44:11 230:20,20 22:44:11 230:12,32:4 24:14:42,32:4 27:16 229:8,14 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 209:23 306:13 313:25< | 0 | | | |
| military model 232:21 234:2 288:3 240:7 241:16 244: 279:21 243:5 312:3 312:3 243:11 247:8,11 million modeling 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 250:3 252:18 230:24 231:15,22 303:1 moved 260:7 241:16 244: 244:11 247:8,11 230:22 232:19 233:9,14,22 303:1 moved 250:3 252:18 264:11,14 267:3,22 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus 326:11 movie 279:16,17,20 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 millions 220:21,25 221:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 290:20,20,24 296: 296:12,15 297:13 224:22 244:11 220:27,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:12 313:25 290:21,20,22 299:13 248:15 225:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 315:14,14 318:5,6 299:18 292:14 230:20,22 235:20 267:2 236:11 327:2 330:11 303:25 330:10 332:1,1 295:2 99:18 302:14 206:4,8,2 81:19 277:10 282:10 292:5 297:25 299:55 318:14 325:7 | | | | |
| 279:21 243:5 312:3 244:11 247:8,11 million modeling 243:5 moved 250:3 252:18 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 models 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 models 308:22,23 321:15 264:11,14 267:3,22 232:19 233:9,14,22 303:1 moves 264:11,14 267:3,22 235:8 326:11 moves 279:16,17,20 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:2 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:2 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 248:15 268:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 299:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 molth 246:8 289:8 310 | | | | |
| million modeling moved 250:3 252:18 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 303:1 models 264:11,14 267:3,22 232:19 233:9,14,22 303:1 modus 234:19 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 23100 220:21,25 221:4,12 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:1 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 296:12,15 297:13 Mills 222:17,20 223:3 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 242:2 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,9,22 292:2 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 mones 292:5 297:25 299:5 315:14 286:11 289:8 | | | | |
| 220:24 222:14 224:9 243:5 308:22,23 321:15 254:15 255:1 230:24 231:15,22 303:1 models 234:5 264:11,14 267:3,22 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 movie 279:16,17,20 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 movie 279:16,17,20 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 movie 287:5 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:1 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:1 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 224:23 225:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 303:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 244:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 330:11 222:25 monies 235:14 286:11 289:8 267:14 283:4 317:9 222:25 246:8 289:8 310:7 325:23 | | | , | | | | | , |
| 230:24 231:15,22 models 303:1 moves 264:11,14 267:3,22 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 303:1 molus 313:12 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 326:11 molus 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 millions 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296: 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296: 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 296:12,15 297:13 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 303:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 303:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 271:16 229:8,14 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 305:12 306:10,15 318:14 325:7 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 220:25 297:25 299:5 myself 217:9 222:25 238:8 310:7 312:22 314:21 305:12 306:10,15 315:17 | | | | | | | |
| 232:19 233:9,14,22 303:1 234:19 270:6 273:17 279: 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus 326:11 movie 279:16,17,20 233:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 287:5 289:18 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:1 296:12,15 297:13 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 224:23 225:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 203:21 305:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 242:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 much 318:14 325:7 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 272:15 275:14 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 230:11 302:9 330:11 222:5 money's 289:8 310:7 312:22 314:21 296:4 mone 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 312:22 314:21 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 | | | , | |
| 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 modus 326:11 movie 279:16,17,20 235:8 326:11 money 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:2 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:2 Mills 222:17,20 223:3 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 248:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 306:13 313:25 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 338:5 317:9 222:25 monlith 289:8 310:7 38:5 296:4 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 325:23 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 325:23 315:17 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 317: | , | | | , , , , |
| 235:8 326:11 313:12 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 millions 220:21,25 221:4,12 23:224 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:1 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 296:12,15 297:13 Mills 222:17,20 223:3 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 292:5 299:5 330:10 332:1,1 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 299:5 38:5 317:9 222:25 28:8 310:7 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 246:8 289:8 310:7 312:22 314:21 325:23 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 325:23 325:23 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 325:2 | | | | |
| millions money moving 287:5 289:18 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:5 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 290:20,20,24 296:5 Mills 222:17,20 223:3 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 303:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 24:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 much 318:14 325:7 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 317:7 N 312:22 314:21 296:4 | 233:22 234:3,4,5,6 | modus | movie | 279:16,17,20 |
| 223:13,14 226:11 220:21,25 221:4,12 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 290:20,20,24 296:3 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 296:12,15 297:13 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 230:20,22 232:4,13 302:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 299:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 305:22 306:10,15 318:14 325:7 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 330:11 222:25 monles 246:8 315:17 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 312:22 314:21 325:23 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 317:7 N 325:23 | | 326:11 | 313:12 | 282:15 284:2,3,3,5 |
| 229:8,9 230:23,24 221:12,15 222:16 Ms 296:12,15 297:13 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 224:23 225:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 298:3,7,9 299:11 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 240:20 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 330:11 222:25 monies 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:12 minds moneith 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:12 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 325:23 211:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 325:23 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 317:7 315:1 | | | moving | 287:5 289:18 |
| Mills 222:17,20 223:3 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 298:3,7,9 299:11 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 224:22 325:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 303:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 224:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 246:8 246:8 246:8 246:8 317:9 222:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:14 322:22 24:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 312:22 314:21 325:23 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 325:23 317:7 N | 223:13,14 226:11 | 220:21,25 221:4,12 | 232:24 307:3,4 308:5 | 290:20,20,24 296:8 |
| 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 224:23 225:4,12 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 303:21 305:21 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 224:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 300:11 222:25 monles 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:14:283:4 317:9 222:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 312:22 314:21 325:23 296:4 246:8 315:17 315:17 315:12 325:23 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 315:17 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N N | 229:8,9 230:23,24 | 221:12,15 222:16 | Ms | 296:12,15 297:13 |
| 248:15 226:7,16,20,21 248:15 269:23 306:13 313:25 mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 224:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 much 318:14 325:7 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 272:15 275:14 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 multiple 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:12 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 317:7 N 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 317:7 N | Mills | 222:17,20 223:3 | 217:7,8 218:5 219:21 | 298:3,7,9 299:11 |
| mind 227:16 229:8,14 270:2 298:4 299:3 314:14,23,24 224:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 320:14 337:3 318:14 325:7 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 monlith 229:8 310:7 243:21 264:24 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 315:17 mine 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 224:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 246:21 247:1,2 248:1 | 224:23 225:4,12 | 239:6 247:1,2 248:1 | 303:21 305:21 |
| 224:22 244:11 230:20,22 232:4,13 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 320:14 337:3 315:14,14 318:5,6 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 29:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 272:15 275:14 300:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 277:10 282:10 38:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 317:9 222:25 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:14,14 318:5,6 minds 222:25 261:4,8 281:19 272:15 275:14 326:11 327:2 236:11 302:9 330:1 222:5 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 222:25 monles 280:9,10,15,15 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 mine 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:14 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 248:15 | 226:7,16,20,21 | 248:15 269:23 | 306:13 313:25 |
| 274:11 279:4 232:17,24 233:8 much 318:14 325:7 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 29:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 338:5 330:11 222:5 222:5 multiple 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 243:21 264:24 267:14 283:4 317:9 222:25 246:8 246:8 315:17 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 315:17 325:23 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 317:7 317:7 N | mind | 227:16 229:8,14 | 270:2 298:4 299:3 | 314:14,23,24 |
| 282:15 286:22 234:5,8,11,19,22 229:22 253:22 267:2 326:11 327:2 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 272:15 275:14 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 330:11 222:25 222:25 multiple 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 315:17 325:23 mine 21:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 317:7 N N 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N N | 224:22 244:11 | 230:20,22 232:4,13 | 320:14 337:3 | 315:14,14 318:5,6 |
| 289:18 292:14 261:4,8 281:19 272:15 275:14 330:10 332:1,1 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 222:5 multiple 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 222:25 243:21 264:24 267:14 283:4 mindset 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 246:8 315:17 325:23 315:17 mine 218:17,23,24 227:15 317:7 317:7 N 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 274:11 279:4 | 232:17,24 233:8 | much | 318:14 325:7 |
| 295:6 298:7,9 305:22 306:10,15 277:10 282:10 338:5 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 222:5 multiple 222:4 224:17 232:20 minds 222:25 222:25 243:21 264:24 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 312:22 314:21 mindset 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 315:17 mine 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 Mushroomed 317:7 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 282:15 286:22 | 234:5,8,11,19,22 | 229:22 253:22 267:2 | 326:11 327:2 |
| 299:11 302:9 330:1 money's 292:5 297:25 299:5 myself 330:11 222:5 multiple 222:4 224:17 232:20 minds 222:25 233:14 286:11 289:8 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 mindset 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 289:18 292:14 | 261:4,8 281:19 | 272:15 275:14 | 330:10 332:1,1 |
| 330:11 222:5 multiple 222:4 224:17 232:20 minds monies 253:14 286:11 289:8 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 mindset 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 mine 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 295:6 298:7,9 | - | 277:10 282:10 | 338:5 |
| 330:11 222:5 multiple 222:4 224:17 232:20 minds monies 253:14 286:11 289:8 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 mindset 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 mine 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 315:17 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 299:11 302:9 330:1 | | 292:5 297:25 299:5 | myself |
| minds monies 253:14 286:11 289:8 243:21 264:24 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 mindset monolith 280:9,10,15,15 315:17 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 N 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | 330:11 | | | 222:4 224:17 232:20 |
| 317:9 222:25 289:8 310:7 267:14 283:4 mindset 246:8 312:22 314:21 325:23 mine 246:8 315:17 315:17 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 N 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | minds | | - | 243:21 264:24 |
| mindset monolith 312:22 314:21 296:4 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 325:23 mine 315:17 mushroomed N 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 317:7 N | 317:9 | | | |
| 296:4 246:8 280:9,10,15,15 325:23 mine 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 315:17 N 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | | | | |
| mine more 315:17 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 mushroomed 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 | | | 280:9,10,15,15 | |
| 221:14 232:25 218:17,23,24 227:15 mushroomed N 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | | | | |
| 234:22 245:9,21 235:16 252:19 317:7 N | | | | N |
| | | | | N |
| | | | | 217:1 |
| | | | | |
| naked | 252:5,6,8,9 257:25 | non-consensual | observe |
|--------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 303:24 305:5 | 258:2,2,4,5,5 | 288:7,9 289:17 | 304:21 308:9 326:6 |
| name | 259:15 265:11,12 | non-criminal | 328:1,7 |
| 217:4 221:22 223:5 | 265:24 267:15 | 313:22 | observed |
| 234:24,25 235:1 | 282:6 287:9,11,16 | nor | 229:6 277:24 308:14 |
| 238:13 262:14,21 | 288:2,5,9,10,11,16 | 338:8,11 | 320:22 322:14 |
| 262:24 263:9 273:3 | 290:19,22 292:1,8 | normal | 324:14 325:16 |
| 277:14,15 294:18 | 295:10,16,17 | 310:11 | obviously |
| 332:1 | 296:17 297:8 304:1 | normalized | 225:2 232:23 244:7 |
| named | 305:13 306:12 | 312:25 | 252:18 255:8 281:8 |
| 246:21 | 309:16 311:1 313:3 | normally | 292:16 312:24 |
| names | 313:5 314:23 | 288:22 305:21 | 313:18 316:11 |
| 218:17,19,20,24 | 318:10 321:5,6,23 | nothing | 321:3 327:22 |
| 235:16 254:24,25 | 322:14,23 324:23 | 233:20 235:1 244:9 | occasions |
| 263:4 274:9,10,12 | 327:4 328:4,9 | 244:11 251:2 285:6 | 257:9 |
| 274:12,16,16,17 | 330:13,16,17,19,20 | 289:14 290:18 | Ocean |
| 275:21 282:12 | 330:24,25 331:1,2,5 | 328:2 | 239:22,25 |
| 330:1,1 | 331:9 | notion | odd |
| Nantucket | new | 265:22 285:5 | 261:11 |
| 259:7,11 | 217:6 227:11 259:8 | novel | off |
| Naomi | 266:6,7 270:4,13,13 | 334:3 | 280:11 285:10,11,18 |
| 269:18,19 270:7 | 273:21 274:5 | now | 319:22 |
| narrative | 275:20 279:5,9 | 225:14 226:2 229:3 | offered |
| 317:3,6 | 281:25 283:18 | 230:7,12 234:11 | 255:8 319:21 |
| near | 284:8 305:23,24,25 | 245:7,8 246:12 | office |
| 275:23 276:2 | 310:8 315:11 | 253:17 256:7 | 247:20 249:10 |
| necessarily | 316:20 319:21 | 275:19 276:7 | 308:23,25 |
| 291:17,18 | 321:9 322:5 329:23 | 284:24 285:16 | Official |
| need | 329:24 335:2,4,24 | 286:4,19 291:4 | 277:21 338:14 |
| 218:8 243:3 254:23 | next | 294:16 295:23 | often |
| 326:1 327:21 | 281:16 285:23 | 297:22 301:4 | 303:21 |
| needed | 316:15 320:7 | 302:24 309:11 | |
| 219:5 225:1 | 336:15 | 312:11 313:8,20,24 | 217:19 223:7 227:21 |
| nefarious | night | 318:25 330:11 | 228:16 231:4 |
| 231:23 282:5 | 218:25 263:4 282:20 | 334:24 | 232:19 233:9,16 |
| negative | 284:18 319:23 | Nowak | 240:16,18 241:25 |
| 318:13 | 331:14 | 277:3 | 247:21 248:5 256:5 |
| neighbors | nipples | number | 262:7 264:10 |
| 284:3 | 325:13 | 227:5 289:16 312:25 | 267:25 298:3 299:2 |
| neither | nobody | 319:10 | 318:5,12 324:23 |
| 338:7 | 228:9 293:18 297:20 | numbers | 327:2 333:7 |
| never | 305:21 318:11 | 254:8 | Ohio |
| 221:13,14 224:17 | nonconsensual | 0 | 230:10 283:19,19 |
| 225:2 230:16 | 288:17 | observation | on |
| 231:21 239:8 | none | 229:5 | 217:13 218:21 |
| 244:17 245:4,5 | 330:14,14,14,15 | 227.3 | 220:17 221:7 224:5 |
| | - | - | |
| 231:25 234:2 237:1 | 325:6 331:11 | 299:15 300:21 | 264:18 294:17 |
|--------------------|--------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 237:15 238:13 | 335:19 336:13 | 302:11 311:21 | 297:13 299:17 |
| 239:10 240:15,25 | ones | 321:5,8,14 323:5 | 313:24 327:10 |
| 243:8 244:15 247:7 | 256:1 282:13 | 329:20 335:19 | 333:18 |
| 248:2,12,16,19,21 | one-time | others | owned |
| 250:5,13 251:24 | 232:5 | 223:5 253:9 278:1 | 221:13 272:11 |
| 252:18 253:7,17 | only | 300:20 312:19 | 283:16 284:15,24 |
| 255:17 256:10,13 | 227:4 237:13 238:8 | otherwise | 284:25 285:1 |
| 256:18,19,23,25 | 239:20 259:17 | 261:11 338:12 | owning |
| 257:9,15,16 258:16 | 261:1 268:15 | our | 264:21 |
| 259:6 263:12 264:5 | 271:22 282:22 | 218:5 323:12,14 | 201.21 |
| 265:18 270:16 | 283:15 300:14,15 | out | Р |
| 272:10,13 274:1 | 300:15 311:20 | 252:18 253:25 | Р |
| 278:6 280:11,22 | 313:10 319:23 | 261:22 266:24 | 317:13 |
| 282:7,22 285:20 | open | 267:11 273:20 | packed |
| 286:1 287:1 288:23 | 299:4 | 275:13,14,15 279:4 | 257:4 |
| 289:4 298:22 299:8 | operandi | 294:8 296:10 298:2 | pages |
| 300:2,2 304:24 | 326:11 | 308:22 309:25 | 335:1 |
| 305:1,17 306:6,17 | opinion | 331:13 | paid |
| 307:8,9 308:10 | 229:17 | outcome | 223:13,15,22 224:6 |
| 310:7 311:9 312:9 | opportunity | 338:12 | 230:20 231:21 |
| 312:14,25 313:12 | 251:10 299:8 | outside | 233:15 234:7 235:8 |
| 313:13 315:21 | oral | 283:18 | 318:10 |
| 316:4,10 317:13 | 328:6,7 | over | painting |
| 319:22,24 320:19 | order | 220:22 222:8 223:14 | 322:7,11 |
| 321:6,15 324:6 | 235:9 | 224:18 225:15 | Palm |
| 327:9 331:7 332:23 | organize | 233:22 250:2 | 225:22 239:13 266:7 |
| 333:4,20 337:4 | 277:8 281:12 | 253:10 257:21 | 270:11 305:22 |
| once | organized | 264:8 289:25 | 314:12 329:24 |
| 253:11 265:4,4,6 | 283:5 | 305:19 310:14 | 331:7 |
| 271:22 312:8 | orgies | 318:1 323:22 | paper |
| one | 301:8,9,11 | 324:15 327:12 | 331:13 332:23,24 |
| 218:18 221:23 | originally | 330:22 332:14 | 333:4,5,11,14,16,18 |
| 224:17 225:3 226:3 | 225:24 321:2 | 334:17 335:6 | 333:19 |
| 233:21 244:20 | Oscars | overage | paraphernalia |
| 251:5,6 255:14,23 | 237:5,5 | 325:10 | 323:6 |
| 255:25 256:7,7 | other | overt | Paris |
| 262:1 268:18 | 221:15 229:4,11 | 313:18 | 270:13 274:7 310:9 |
| 279:16,17 281:8 | 230:15 232:21 | overtly | park |
| 283:22 284:10 | 251:3,12,13 253:4 | 313:17 | 230:11 |
| 289:2,19 291:10,16 | 253:10 254:19 | overwhelming | parleyed |
| 295:6,19 299:10,15 | 255:8 256:10 | 299:17 311:3 | 279:25 |
| 301:19 303:8 306:9 | 257:10 267:18 | own | part |
| 308:18 312:25 | 269:16 273:2 | 224:23,23 225:5 | 220:16 238:5 249:9 |
| 317:21 319:23,23 | 274:10 275:21 | 229:13 240:6 | 251:9 254:9 260:21 |
| 321:13 324:10 | 282:7 285:4 290:14 | 252:19 261:21 | 263:15,23 279:22 |
| 521115 524.10 | 202.7 203.4 270.14 | 252.19 201.21 | |
| 289:4 299:6 308:25 | 313:2 315:12 316:7 | 216:7 | 287:2 316:4 321:6 |
|---------------------------|----------------------|-----------------------|----------------------|
| 309:1 310:13 312:9 | 317:2,8,25 320:1 | Philip | 322:3 |
| 314:5 315:14,14 | 328:25 329:21 | 250:21 | planes |
| 335:19,21 | 330:2,5,6,7 | Phipps | 240:15 272:10 274:2 |
| participate | per | 225:25 | 281:24 |
| 291:7 306:19 | 220:19 | phone | please |
| participated | percent | 264:5 282:7 | 225:3 228:15,16 |
| 299:6 | 225:16 | photo | 251:12 259:5 314:9 |
| participating | perception | 305:11 | 325:25 327:15 |
| 288:15 308:2 | 297:19 298:2 | photograph | pleasure |
| particular | perfectly | 309:15 | 327:7 |
| 334:12 | 282:2 | photos | plus |
| parties | perform | 316:2 330:23 | 265:20 |
| 338:8,11 | 305:17 | physical | pocket |
| party | performing | | |
| 321:1 | 223:16 | 289:13
physicality | 231:19
podcast |
| | Pergamon | | |
| passing | | 287:24
pick | 294:17
point |
| 238:4,4 329:19,19
past | 280:1
period | | |
| | | 314:23
picking | 219:24255:12,16 |
| 260:3 307:3 310:14 | 219:9 229:18 252:14 | | 284:6 286:10 |
| 321:15 | 271:12 274:25 | 306:17 | 294:25 295:1 296: I |
| patches | 300:15,25 302:16 | picture | 296:3 298:20 |
| 324:2,3 | 302:17 308:5,11,14 | 310:1 322:8,11 | 299:21 311:24 |
| patently | 308:19 335:15 | pictures | 312:2 319:9 |
| 265:20 327:18 | 336:13 | 323:6 | poor |
| pay | permitted | pieces | 314:8 |
| 305:19 306:7,13,14 | 292:8 | 335:24 | pop |
| paying | person | Pigozzi | 255:1 |
| 305:25 | 271:6 294:16 299:18 | 236:11 | position |
| payments | 301:23 311:20 | pilot | 301:24 |
| 232:5 | 328:5 | 265:22 | possibility |
| payroll | personal | pilots | 220:8 |
| 220:17 231:25 | 229:7 237:16 246:3,5 | 257:25 | possible |
| peak | 257:25 272:4 | pin | 234:21 250:8 268:5,6 |
| 319:9 | 297:13 | 249:21 | 276:20 |
| People | personally | pinching | possibly |
| 229:11 230:15 | 229:6 231:13 282:25 | 325:13 | 226:3 288:24 |
| 242:17,20 253:23 | personnel | place | post |
| 262:2 267:18 | 264:16 | 217:13 271:21 | 237:8 249:20 297:12 |
| 282:18 284:2 | person's | 293:10 294:2 316:8 | potentially |
| 285:11 286:20 | 262:13 | places | 329:23 |
| 287:18 293:11 | perspective | 218:18 266:9 | pre |
| 300:21301:8,11 | 326:11 | plane | 249:20 |
| 302:12,21 303:1 | persuasive | 239:10 251:6,18,21 | precise |
| 309:2,3,19311:7,8 | 298:13,15 | 252:8,10 255:20 | 231:17 |
| 311:21 312:4,22 | Pestana | 256:20,23 257:1,12 | preferred |
| | | | |
| | | | Fage 22 |
|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| | | | l |
| 295:2 298:17 | 330:10 | 274:9 292:12 310:18 | R |
| present | problem | public's | 217:1,5 |
| 236:15 282:23 305:1 | 218:9 | 297:18 | ramp |
| 308:2 311:20 331:1 | problems | publishing | 263:15 |
| presented | 229:23,25 | 279:18 | ran |
| 334:10,10 | proceedings | pull | 284:8 |
| president | 338:9 | 235:2 | ranch |
| 247:3,19 248:3,4,6 | process | purchase | 281:25 |
| 248:18,23 249:5,6,9 | 260:21 | 221:16 223:5 224:8 | random |
| 252:1 253:8,24 | produced | purchased | 225:17 283:25 |
| 254:2,19 255:6 | 309:15 | 221:19 | range |
| 257:11 258:10,16 | professional | purpose | 289:11 |
| 259:24 261:12,20 | 333:25 334:8 | 249:3 255:7 258:20 | rape |
| 264:18 265:4,10 | professionally | 314:24 336:8 | 326:10 |
| 266:3,11 268:20 | 334:7 | | rather |
| 269:21 320:17,23 | professors | purposes
255:22 | 261:10 |
| · / | | | |
| 321:4,22 322:2 | 278:1 | push | read |
| 323:7 | proffer | 302:14 | 278:25 286:21,21 |
| presidents | 217:7,11 320:14 | put | 292:5 295:18 |
| 249:8 | 337:3 | 234:9 262:12 271:21 | 296:11 300:23 |
| press | profit | 279:10 286:9 300:2 | 314:21 325:20 |
| 237:20 280:1 302:14 | 226:5 | 329:15 332:6 | 326:9,12 334:3 |
| 322:13 | profits | 333:20,21 336:6 | real |
| pressured | 225:14 226:9 | puts | 225:23 285:12 |
| 253:22 | profoundly | 246:8 | 296:12 317:15,18 |
| presumably | 278:4 | putting | 332:2 |
| 331:2 | program | 232:12 302:11 | realize |
| pretty | 314:9 | p.m | 296:1 |
| 241:8 282:10 | properties | 337:4,5 | realized |
| prevent | 266:4 270:3 271:19 | | 219:3 |
| 280:4 | 272:11 | Q | really |
| priapism | propose | question | 220:5 222:3 228:6,6 |
| 325:4 | 225:8 | 223:8 231:3,17 | 228:6 239:20 |
| primary | prostitution | 251:16 271:11 | 243:21,24 255:7 |
| 256:1 | 314:16 | 296:8 327:4,7,10 | 264:7 267:4 271:14 |
| | | 328:18 331:5 | |
| prisoners | protective | questions | 272:15 275:19 |
| 279:24 | 310:18 | 218:10 239:3 250:3 | 278:3 282:6 290:12 |
| private | provide | 303:12 320:20 | 294:17 297:20 |
| 283:23 316:4 | 251:5 | | 299:1,7 301:16,17 |
| privilege | provided | 325:7 330:25 | 311:23 317:4,20 |
| 251:9 | 338:4 | 336:20 | 318:17 319:12 |
| probably | public | quite | realms |
| 227:24 231:9 239:20 | 257:19 291:11 294:7 | 227:16 260:19 | 220:8 |
| 247:11 250:17 | 295:23 296:10 | 283:17 | reaped |
| 269:25 275:7 | 297:19 322:5 | R | 225:13 226:8 |
| 306:16 313:4 | publicly | ĸ | reason |
| | 1 | I | I |
| 225:13 226:8 | 219:24 | 326:18 | responsibility |
|----------------------------------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------|---------------------------------|
| reason | recruiting | relationships | 265:25 315:15 |
| 223:15 231:23 | 223:17 235:10 | 242:21 246:2 254:11 | responsible |
| 237:13 249:21 | red | 277:18 280:25 | 251:18,19 257:18 |
| 250:3 260:2 277:24 | 284:18 | 287:6 | |
| | reduced | relative | 279:1
restructured |
| 282:4 297:15 | | | 283:12 |
| reasons
325:7 | 338:5
Redux | 338:10 | resuming |
| recall | 317:13 | relieved
320:4 | 285:19 320:13 |
| 239:9,24 247:15 | referring | remember | review |
| 249:24 253:17 | 296:20 329:22 | 218.23 219:8,11 | 244:6 |
| 268:7 292:16 | reflect | 225:14 226:2 228:2 | reviewed |
| 294:13 306:14 | 234:24 257:15 | 231:18,20 233:17 | 223:22 |
| | refresh | | reward |
| 309:16 329:5 330:6
330:7,7 335:7.10 | 244:10,11 | 235:24 236:6,9,18
244:24 247:4,7 | 235:9 |
| receive | regard | 249:7,17,22 250:11 | rich |
| 224:10 302:20 | 224:18 | 250:15,16 251:6 | 322:3 |
| 335:14 | regular | 253:19 255:11 | Richard |
| received | | 256:11 260:2 | 276:9,11 |
| 219:23 224:25 234:8 | 302:21 306:6 328:1 | 262:14,20,24 263:7 | Riddell |
| 306:16 335:1 | 334:3
regularly | 265:5,7 268:2 273:8 | 284:17,20,21 |
| receiving | 286:16 | 276:9 277:1 282:13 | |
| | reimburse | | Riddell's |
| 222:25 231:14 | | 283:20 296:25 | 284:17,19,22 |
| 288:15
recently | 224:2 | 304:3 305:8,25 | ride |
| | reiterate | 307:6 309:5 321:9 | 319:21 |
| 308:5 | 245:3 | 324:1 331:22 332:3 | ridiculous |
| recognize | reject | 332:4,8,10,11 333:5 | 324:10 |
| 286:4 | 292:15 | 334:7,24 335:7,12
remembering | right |
| recollect | related | | 217:15,16,18220:1 |
| 233:1 282:25 283:14
321:7 | 228:11 338:8 | 296:5
rental | 222:6 223:11 |
| recollection | relation | 271:20 | 226:17 227:1,6,23 |
| | 277:17 | repeated | 228:21 229:18 |
| 221:10 229:7,7 | relations | | 232:7 233:3 238:12 |
| 240:15 244:13 | 242:24 278:15 | 308:1
reporting | 238:15 239:24 |
| 308:20 | 282:17 | | 241:16247:8,11 |
| record | relationship | 305:6
reports | 252:4 254:6,12,12 |
| 234:23 285:18
recorded | 220:16 224:19 | 308:1 | 255:2 256:7 261:19 |
| 217:7 320:14 337:2 | 243:18 245:17 | require | 279:8 285:16,21 |
| | 250:23 251:3 | 327:24 | 290:18 293:11 |
| recording
338:4,7 | 254:10,10 258:9 | resembles | 295:19 296:11 |
| records | 263:13 270:21 | 245:13 | 298:13 299:5 |
| | 272:3 273:19 | | 302:19,20 304:18 |
| 232:11 | 279:14 280:8,24 | residence | 310:4,6 313:6 |
| recover | 281:5,6 308:7 | 329:24
respect | 315:25 320:16
325:1,8 327:16 |
| 296:17 297:8
recruited | 320:18,22 321:14 | | |
| | 321:21 325:17 | 258:12 286:2 | 332:12 333:1 |
| 334:20 336:25 | Saint | 254:18,25 258:14 | scribbling |
|----------------------|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------|
| role | 319:22 | 259:4,5 260:11 | 263:4 |
| 250:13,14 262:5 | sake | 261:3 263:20 | search |
| room | 325:5 | 264:11,12 268:17 | 322:6 |
| 303:15,24 304:10 | salary | 269:3,8 271:17 | searched |
| 305:14 307:8 318:9 | 224:6,24 225:2 | 275:9 284:6,15 | 335:3 |
| 328:3,8 | Salem | 285:7 286:12,20 | second |
| rubbed | 317:8 | 289:16 290:22,23 | 258:3 279:3,21 303:9 |
| 305:15 318:6 | same | 291:3,6,22 295:5 | secret |
| rubbing | 217:14,25 218:3,6,6 | 298:22 299:8,14,14 | 257:4,5,8 266:16 |
| 305:11 307:15 310:9 | 239:3 242:20 | 300:4 301:1,13 | Secretary |
| rules | 256:17 269:14 | 303:20 307:6,23 | 239:16,25 240:12 |
| 218:7 | 271:11 306:20 | 309:5 310:5,11 | 259:1 271:5 |
| rumors | 316:8 | 316:17 317:25 | secure |
| 302:13 | Santa | 319:5,10 321:18 | 224:17 |
| running | 280:8,12 | 327:17 329:2,3,10 | see |
| 262:3 311:25 | Sarah | 329:22 336:6 | 217:14 226:16 258:7 |
| | 266:20 311:21 | saying | 259:23 260:12 |
| S | satisfy | 221:23 222:10,15 | 270:12 275:16,19 |
| Saffian | 317:11 327:18 | 232:12 234:1 | 286:7,8,17 287:8,24 |
| 216:14 234:23 235:4 | saw | 235:11 246:18 | 288:14,14,18,21,24 |
| 238:14,16 267:24 | 221:11 237:14,14 | 264:17 279:1 289:7 | 289:4,14 295:11 |
| 273:4,6 284:20 | 244:17 245:4,5 | 291:1,3 300:12 | 297:1 301:13 |
| said | 258:2,3,5,16 266:22 | 302:10,11 306:12 | 302:17,25 304:9 |
| 219:2,15,16,17,19,22 | 280:23 282:6,6 | 307:20 309:2 311:8 | 305:4 308:19 309:3 |
| 221:7 222:4 223:2 | 283:4 285:8,11 | 311:14 327:2 331:3 | 309:9,10,18,20,21 |
| 223:21 231:25 | 286:19,24 287:6,9 | 332:13 | 319:1 321:25 322:1 |
| 234:12 237:25 | 287:11,16,17,22,24 | says | 322:1 328:12 |
| 244:1 253:6 255:16 | 288:2,5,9,10,12,16 | 242:14 | 331:18,19 333:7 |
| 262:19 265:9 | 290:19,22 292:15 | scene | 334:1,11,17,20 |
| 270:16 282:2 284:1 | 297:12 299:4 301:6 | 327:3 | 335:13 |
| 285:2 286:3,8,12,13 | 301:6 302:20,22 | school | seeing |
| 286:21 289:9 292:2 | 304:1 309:2,4 311:1 | 291:15,19 314:23 | 305:9 308:20 309:5,7 |
| 292:4 293:5,5,17,18 | 313:2,25 320:24,25 | schools | 309:17 321:8 335:7 |
| 295:4 297:16 | 321:5,6,23 322:12 | 314:22 | 335:11 |
| 298:10 299:2 | 324:14 325:16 | science | seek |
| 300:19 301:3,12,21 | 328:4,9,24,25 329:4 | 278:4 | 250:9 |
| 302:12,12 306:24 | 330:14 334:19 | scientific | seem |
| 313:5 315:6,21 | say | 277:11 279:16,18 | 281:19 310:2 326:7 |
| 316:14 318:11 | 217:25 218:11 | 280:2,5 | seemed |
| 321:10 323:13,23 | 219:10 222:3,18,20 | scientist | 313:3 |
| 325:11 327:8,9 | 222:22 236:7,14 | 278:6 | seems |
| 328:11,13,17,21,24 | 237:13 238:2,23 | scientists | 219:7 312:16 316:17 |
| 329:18 333:22 | 240:20 243:11 | 276:25 277:8 279:24 | seen |
| 335:5 336:7,22 | 244:10,11 245:7,19 | scrap | 229:22 237:2,20 |
| 338:6 | 246:12 247:17,18 | 333:19 | 257:19 267:17 |
| | 1 | I | I |
# 304:13.24.24 305:1 328:1.5.6.7 313:12.13 277:10 309:22 316:2 sexual showed socializing self 286:14 288:15,18,21 222:13 331:12 266:24 313:1 289:10 303:25 shows socially self-esteem 304:6 306:19 220:21 238:24 273:8,22,23 225:1 307:14,24 310:3 side 273:24 287:11 312:16 318:8,12,22 256:3 313:25 Senator sold 240:3.9 318:23 326:9 329:1 225:24 234:20 signature 217:15 send sexually some 226:20 333:19 223:18 291:24 signatures 218:17,24,25 219:23 298:11 324:15 235:2 226:21 229:4 sense 233:4.6 281:21 share signed 230:14 232:21 246:15.17 234:19.19 253:4 286:15 294:7 217:12 322:9 sharer significant sent 255:12,16 259:10 246:15 290:1 264:2 267:9 268:8,9 220:22,25 221:4,16 222:20 she Sikorsky 274:13.16.17 219:22 248:17 267:2 277:19 279:13 separate 231:12 282:23.24 284:6 224:24 246:11,11 267:4,4,19 268:7 silver 258:9 271:1 286:10,14 291:12 269:24 270:9,10,10 275:24 separately 270:11,12,13,16 simply 292:10 294:7,25 269:23 274:22 292:13 222:2 295:1.23 297:23 298:12 299:2 Sergey 293:5,13,14,15,17 since 303:11 306:15 236:2,3 293:22,24,25 267:11 295:5 294:12,17,19 Sergey's single 310:7 312:16 236:12 296:25 297:3 299:4 317:14,22 318:6,19 310:6 Series 299:4,19,22 300:8 sirens 318:25 319:19 301:8,14,21 303:6,7 322:7 327:23 227:10.10 254:2 328:25 330:21 serves 309:8,10,10,14 sit 311:23,25,25 315:7 333:17,19,19,20 236:1 273:17 314:14 316:6 320:25 335:8 336:18 service 315:8 sitting she's 287:20 322:24 somebody 223:16 257:4,5,8 266:16 267:1,16,17 301:22 situation 236:10 246:21 309:11 250:12 287:21 services 287:12 290:17 294:10 307:8 308:8 231:22 shift size 301:18 314:4,5 309:13 315:6.16 set 332:16 333:5,8,9 222:3 258:3 281:16 short 329:1 330:22 331:3 slid 296:15 320:20 244:6.9 294:23 somebody's 245:9 273:16 should seven slide 286:11 306:8.9 234:23 244:10 293:11 295:15 somehow 261:20 260:2 several slips 230:23 233:11 shoulders 279:3 someone
small
283:3
smart
social
227:15 290:8
235:15 310:14
308:1 313:11 316:9
318:7 323:15,17
325:20 326:8 327:3
sex
287:22
show
shouldn't
232:25 324:10
232:11,25 233:2
219:13 220:7 292:4
292:11 301:14
309:4,7 310:22
329:5
something
| | | | raye zu |
|----------------------------|----------------------|--------------------------------|---------------------|
| 210-20 220-22 24 | 20(11/200.10 | | |
| 219:20 220:23,24 | 286:14 289:18 | sports | still |
| 225:9 227:9,23 | 310:17 312:16 | 284:16 | 263:12 296:4 298:2 |
| 229:16 232:21 | 313:5,11 322:7 | Springer-Verlag | 303:4 319:16,17 |
| 235:25 236:14 | 330:21 332:15 | 280:1 | stitched |
| 244:23 245:4 | sorts | squeeze | 334:6 |
| 247:11 249:14 | 252:24 | 287:21 | |
| 251:9 253:7 255:8 | sounds | staff | 332:23,24 333:4,11 |
| 258:12,18,23 | 232:12 234:1 256:6 | 283:3 319:19 | 333:14,16 |
| 259:13 260:7,23 | 260:5 261:11 | stairs | stocks |
| 261:1,5,25 262:8 | South | 308:24 | 283:11 |
| 267:10 271:18 | 248:3 | stand | stop |
| 279:4 281:4 288:17 | Southern | 253:25 | 253:1 260:4 |
| 290:22 294:8 295:6 | 312:10 322:4 335:3 | standard | stopped |
| 307:14 314:2 318:8 | 335:23 | 302:22 | 334:18,21 |
| 323:13 331:13,21 | Spacey | start | stops |
| 332:16 333:16 | 269:12 270:2,6 | 218:15 252:21 | 256:8 |
| sometime | span | 289:23 291:9 | stories |
| 323:23 | 241:11 | 301:16 335:11 | 301:16 325:3,10 |
| sometimes | spas | started | 326:9 |
| 256:22 267:3,4 | 220:6 315:6 | 249:18 255:3,5,10 | story |
| 275:15 286:11 | speak | 279:19 317:3,5 | 265:20 310:14 312:9 |
| 303:20 307:22 | 265:17 299:19 | 323:23 324:2 | 321:12 327:23 |
| 324:11 | speaking | starting | straight |
| somewhere | 319:17 | 220:18 | 241:16 333:21 |
| 230:17 232:17 | spec | startup | strange |
| 255:18 299:9 | 254:5 | 263:16 | 313:4 |
| 334:12 | Special | state | Street |
| soon | 216:9 217:5 | 239:16 240:12 292:2 | 334:14 |
| 336:25 | specific | statements | strictly |
| sophisticated | 254:8 329:6 | 291:11 294:8 295:23 | 260:20 |
| 228:25 | specifically | States | structures |
| Soros | 280:9 283:19 309:7 | 216:1,5 | 283:11 |
| 272:18,22 274:1 | spectrum | stay | struggle |
| sorry | 299:8 | 263:12 302:24 | 330:7 |
| 228:3 231:4,6 236:9 | Spencer | stayed | stuck |
| 240:20 247:7 248:5 | 216:9 217:3,5 285:16 | 224:1 269:1 | 221:6 |
| 248:9 254:13 | 285:19 320:10,13 | staying | stuff |
| 263:13 268:21,22 | 337:2 | | 244:10 278:25 |
| 279:3 280:10,19 | spend | 263:12 273:16
DOJ REDACTION | 296:10 |
| 297:11 301:25 | 251:10 265:18 | | submitted |
| 302:19 304:18 | 278:11 285:23 | sten | 333:14 |
| 305:3 314:25 318:1 | | step
316:15 | |
| 327:5,13 328:15,19 | spending | | subsequently |
| | 233:2 253:8,22 255:4 | stepchildren | 303:5,6 |
| 329:6,12,19 | 255:5 | 314:25 | substantial |
| sort
225:17 260:9 269:1 | spoke | Stephen | 317:2 |
| 225:17 200:9 209:1 | 272:6 | 277:4,4 278:6 | substantive |
| | | | |
| 222:5 | surface | 241:12,14,23 242:4 | terrify |
|--------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| successful | 263:3 | 244:2245:12 | 265:24 |
| 312:12 | surprised | 252:14 254:18 | testi |
| successfully | 264:3 | 261:24 268:18 | 306:22 |
| 252:18 | surprisingly | 271:12 275:1 279:7 | testified |
| such | 242:13 | 289:6 292:19 295:5 | 292:11 295:24 |
| 292:8 301:18 313:2 | suspicious | 297:2 299:11 | 302:13 |
| 330:18 | 281:22 | 305:16 307:9,13,14 | testimony |
| SUFFIAN | 201.22 | 307:20,25 309:25 | 222:12 291:10 |
| 268:1 | Т | 311:21 317:1 | 292:23 293:22 |
| suggest | Т | 323:12 | 294:5,6,21 297:12 |
| 225:9 228:16 318:4 | 217:1 | tangent | 306:23 335:17 |
| 330:21 | table | 280:11 | testosterone |
| suggesting | 304:24 | targets | 323:24 324:3 |
| 228:25 | tainted | 314:14 | than |
| suggests | 297:10,11 | tasked | 219:16 227:15 251:3 |
| 301:9 | take | 277:7 | 251:13 253:11 |
| sum | 218:7 240:14 253:3 | team | 255:8 258:11 |
| 225:4 233:18 | 265:24 281:14,15 | 254:23 255:6 | 261:10 265:4 282:7 |
| Summers | 285:13,14,17 320:9 | Ted | 288:22 291:23 |
| 271:4,9 272:2,10 | 320:10 324:10 | 240:3,13 319:14,20 | 309:14 321:5 |
| 318:4 | takes | 319:22 | 324:10 |
| super | 285:24 | telehealth | thank |
| 267:17,17 | taking | 252:21 | 217:22 218:13 |
| supervision | 314:18,18 316:19 | tell | 241:25 280:14 |
| 338:5 | 323:24 | 221:5 225:19 229:2 | 285:15 288:8 315:2 |
| support | talk | 230:15 249:20 | That'll |
| 263:23 | 218:8 220:14 224:12 | 261:10 282:12 | 227:23 |
| supported | 253:13 254:5 | 293:1 298:8 302:9 | that's |
| 263:25 | 277:16 281:16 | 314:22 318:9 | 218:11,17 220:3 |
| supporting | 285:25 297:17 | 326:19 | 223:7,19,19 226:11 |
| 263:19 | 298:3 299:23 300:9 | telling | 227:20 230:5,9,17 |
| suppose | 320:24 326:17 | 296:5 302:10 311:13 | 231:2 234:8,21 |
| 258:6 288:2 | 330:18 336:11,14 | 327:1 | 242:14 245:13 |
| sure | 336:23 | telly | 246:13 250:2 |
| 221:10,19,25 223:8 | talked | 313:12 | 252:23 256:16 |
| 235:7 245:24 | 218:16,22 220:15 | Tens | 257:15 262:11 |
| 248:11 251:20,25 | 224:6,11 240:12 | 229:8 | 264:21 265:18 |
| 255:13 260:19,19 | 244:15 266:19 | terms | 267:13,14 279:15 |
| 265:6,12 269:11 | 274:11,19 281:17 | 264:4 289:12 | 280:7 281:3 282:17 |
| 270:18 274:18 | 285:22,22 291:19 | TerraMar | 284:7 285:7 287:2 |
| 281:3 284:2,15 | 292:12 294:25 | 239:23 | 289:2 290:18,21 |
| 289:17 308:12 | 308:6 315:21 325:8 | terrible | 291:23 293:19 |
| 309:22 311:3 | 331:16 336:6,12 | 317:24 | 294:8 296:7,13 |
| 327:11 328:20,25 | talking | terribly | 297:23 298:12,15 |
| 335:23 | 230:6 234:3 241:11 | 321:23 | 299:23 303:4 |
| | I | I | |
| 304:19 306:24 | 281:9 282:19 | 251:21 252:7,10 | 326:24 |
|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
| 307:11,14,19 | 283:15 286:18 | 257:11 260:4 | thinking |
| 310:11 311:11 | 295:14 297:11 | 261:21,22 264:15 | 261:22 273:10 |
| 312:2,21 316:11,13 | 298:16.25 299:5 | 265:17 268:16,24 | this |
| 318:2 323:18,20 | 303:5 312:9,10 | 269:1,8,10 270:2,14 | 220:24 222:4 223:10 |
| 325:6,6 328:22,22 | 315:20 316:19 | 272:7,8 275:9,10,10 | 225:13 227:2 228:9 |
| 329:11,13,16,17 | 317:7 323:11,22 | 275:12 276:8 | 228:11 229:8,17 |
| 333:1 336:4 | 324:9 327:25 333:2 | 277:10,11,14,15 | 234:22 241:17 |
| their | 334:9 | 278:12 286:13,21 | 249:9 252:3 255:23 |
| 223:19,19 257:25 | therefore | 287:13,17 288:10 | 258:13 259:13 |
| 282:23,24 287:7 | 289:20 293:23 | 288:11,23 289:9,10 | 261:5 266:14 |
| 291:13,25 295:14 | thereto | 291:15,16,19,19,23 | 278:24,25,25 279:1 |
| 302:12 315:7 317:9 | 338:11 | 292:3,5 295:24,25 | 279:2 280:12 |
| 320:21 321:14 | there'd | 296:4 301:12 | 283:20,25 284:11 |
| 329:2 333:18 | 284:13 307:6 | 302:13 304:6 | 285:5,22 291:8 |
| them | there's | 307:21 310:25 | 294:7,25 295:16 |
| 222:22 223:18 227:6 | 217:12 218:2,11,19 | 311:1,9,9 313:4,4 | 296:2,2,8 297:16,17 |
| 235:17,18,18 | 219:17 220:20,21 | 316:8 317:17 | 298:2,20 300:2 |
| 240:14,15 251:21 | 232:10 233:6,11,18 | 318:22,23 321:21 | 311:20,24 312:7,16 |
| 253:17,19 254:21 | 233:22 235:4 261:6 | 325:12 330:2,22 | 313:13 314:7,9,10 |
| 254:22,22,24 | 265:13,14 268:5,8 | 331:4 333:18,20 | 314:24 316:11 |
| 255:22 256:23 | 276:7 279:8 282:7 | 335:13 336:3 | 317:8,9,17,20,21,23 |
| 257:19 258:2,3 | 289:8,10,19,25 | they'd | 318:5,18 325:9 |
| 260:13,25 262:12 | 290:17 291:9,10 | 252:6,9 | 327:8,22,23,23 |
| 263:18 264:1 | 294:5,6,21 300:14 | they're | 331:14,15 332:17 |
| 268:10,11 277:13 | 300:15 305:11 | 220:7 255:1 257:19 | 332:18 336:21 |
| 277:14 278:10,11 | 306:23 310:9 | 310:9 316:21 318:7 | 337:2 |
| 278:15,15,19 280:6 | 313:20 316:4 | 318:8 332:5 | |
| 280:6 282:13,15 | 318:15 327:11 | they've | 319:22 |
| 289:5,17,20 290:23 | 330:4,5,12,15 | 286:21 317:22 | those |
| 298:11 300:23,23 | 335:22 336:16 | thick | 221:19 226:18 227:6 |
| 306:9,13,14,16 | these | 332:17,18 | 231:12 234:5 239:9 |
| 308:16 311:1 | 232:4 234:12 243:5 | thing | 242:16 251:4 |
| 312:14 314:21 | 255:24 256:13,18 | 218:15 246:7 268:7 | 252:24 253:4,13,25 |
| 316:10 320:24,25 | 263:2 279:1 283:10 | 269:16 279:19 | 254:17,18 258:5 |
| 321:6,8 326:20 | 291:12 293:11 | 282:21 284:16 | 266:9 270:1,16 |
| 333:22 | 295:23 299:2 | 290:12 292:8 | 272:14 277:17,17 |
| then | 313:15 318:16 | 310:17 313:6 317:9 | 277:25 278:2 |
| 217:20 219:3 221:16 | 338:9 | 325:4 333:18,20 | 279:14 286:13 |
| 225:13,25 226:4,8 | they | things | 287:4 291:2,2 |
| 227:12 229:2 242:5 | 221:11 222:4 223:13 | 221:16 230:15 232:2 | 300:20 301:11 |
| 242:10,23 252:8 | 225:23,25 226:14 | 234:12 252:25 | 302:14 317:15 |
| 255:7,14 258:3 | 226:16,24 237:12 | 253:25 263:3 268:5 | 326:23 335:1 |
| 264:1 274:25 | 237:15 241:13 | 282:25 286:5 291:2 | though |
| 275:17 278:12 | 242:16,19 246:12 | 296:11 316:10 | 303:6 316:24 |
| 279:22,25 280:1 | 246:13 251:19,20 | 317:15,24 325:14 | thought |
| | | | |
| 218:23 251:8 | 320:11,15 330:8 | 315:21 | traveled | |
|--------------------|---------------------|---------------------|----------------------|--|
| 261:20 282:3,20 | 337:3 | topic | 272:10,15 274:1 | |
| 284:17 285:11 | timetrame | 323:12 | 275:13 287:16 | |
| 303:3 310:25 313:4 | 247:5 | topless | 302:22 | |
| 315:17 322:18,21 | times | 288:24 289:3 307:23 | traveling | |
| thoughts | 234:24 239:1,2 | 329:2 | 255:21 | |
| 262:9 | 253:14,15,15 | totaling | Treasury | |
| three | 257:11 259:19 | 220:23 | 271:5 | |
| 226:3 234:4 236:14 | 267:17 286:4 | touch | treatment | |
| 239:9 253:15 270:1 | 291:21 295:19 | 268:24 269:1,8 | 219:23 | |
| 318:13 | 307:7 331:1 | 336:25 | trial | |
| through | TM1 | touched | 220:20 221:6,7 233:7 | |
| 218:17 227:13 | 318:14 | 320:19 | 290:20,24 292:11 | |
| 235:15,16 239:22 | today | touching | 294:3 296:15 317:8 | |
| 239:25 240:5,6 | 218:1 222:2 230:7,8 | 289:5 | tried | |
| 242:11,14 247:3 | 289:16 291:3 | towards | 264:1 274:8 | |
| 269:25 271:10 | 292:14 313:10 | 308:16 | trip | |
| 277:5 279:15 | 315:22 316:7 | trace | 241:1 243:7 244:15 | |
| 286:20,20 313:11 | 322:24 325:2 | 232:7 | 248:2,12,16,19,21 | |
| ties | 331:12 336:8 | trade | 249:4 250:5,13 | |
| 277:25 | together | 229:1 | 251:7,22,25 252:4 | |
| til | 236:13 241:1 246:8 | traded | 252:11,12 255:11 | |
| 229:19 293:15,22 | 260:13 262:12 | 227:13 | 255:15,17,19 256:7 | |
| time | 267:8 271:22 | trading | 256:17 257:10 | |
| 217:4 219:9 224:8 | 275:11,13 332:6 | 227:12 228:14 229:8 | 258:16 | |
| 225:7 227:19 | 334:3 | 229:11 | trips | |
| 229:17 236:16,25 | told | traditional | 253:4,17 255:13,22 | |
| 237:3 241:11 242:8 | 229:3,21 265:20 | 286:16 | 256:3,10,19 270:16 | |
| 243:13,15,18 | 279:21 283:1 | trafficking | true | |
| 251:10 252:14 | 284:14,25 298:8 | 314:16,17 | 220:3,6 224:4 230:9 | |
| 253:6,8,23 255:4,5 | 323:18,20 324:16 | transaction | 242:15 265:22 | |
| 258:15 259:17 | 324:16,25 325:21 | 226:8 | 285:8,9 291:4 | |
| 265:18 266:21,22 | 333:21 334:24 | transactions | 294:11 306:13,25 | |
| 271:12 274:25 | tomorrow | 260:16 | 307:2 309:4 325:3 | |
| 276:10 278:11 | 263:2 | transcribed | 325:18 336:4 338:6 | |
| 282:16 283:8 | ton | 338:4 | truly | |
| 285:16,20 286:18 | 220:21 | transcript | 251:11 283:22 | |
| 286:19 287:15,16 | too | 338:6 | Trump | |
| 287:18 296:9 297:3 | 229:22 234:24 | transcription | 253:24 317:13 | |
| 300:2,6,15 302:15 | 253:14 277:22 | 338:1,6 | trust | |
| 302:16 303:4,22,22 | 283:2 | TRANSCRIPTIO | 283:9 | |
| 306:20308:5,11,19 | took | 338:14 | trusts | |
| 308:21 309:8,16 | 224:3 252:12 257:5 | travel | 283:5 | |
| 310:1,15,16,19 | 293:10 294:2 | 229:21 230:10 232:3 | truth | |
| 311:20,24 313:5,10 | top | 255:10 270:3 | 296:5 298:5 299:9 | |
| 315:13 319:2 | 224:5 277:17 303:12 | 275:10 329:21 | 302:9,10 | |
| | | | | |
| | | | rage 50 |
|-----------------------------------|--------------------|----------------------------------|---------------------|
| | 245-20 | | 225.15 |
| try
218:9 264:24 282:20 | 245:20 | until 229:19 294:19 295:8 | 225:15 |
| | unattractive | | various |
| 313:11 | 313:9 | 300:8 301:10 317:4 | 283:12 |
| trying | uncomfortable | 334:18 | varying |
| 219:10 228:16 235:6 | 287:14 | unusual | 299:3 |
| 247:7,8 250:7 | unconsensual | 325:14 | Vegas |
| 252:15,20,21 | 288:13 289:21 | up | 316:16 |
| 253:18 261:2 286:9 | under | 218:21 220:19 222:3 | version |
| 290:7 314:6,7 315:3 | 219:7 247:25 250:3 | 225:5,5 226:25 | 327:23 |
| 329:14 | 287:11 292:16 | 227:1,23 234:6 | versus |
| Tucker | 294:12 295:25 | 241:7 255:19 | 289:24 |
| 268:11,14 269:4,9 | 308:24 338:5 | 263:15 274:9 279:9 | very |
| 270:2,5,6 | underage | 279:17 281:16 | 223:7 225:3 227:4 |
| turned | 223:18 289:24 | 306:17 311:9 | 228:25 239:21,21 |
| 261:22 334:11 | 290:17 291:22 | 314:23 320:17 | 242:7,7,9,16 243:13 |
| turning | 298:21 304:10 | 330:10 | 243:15,15 244:10 |
| 294:10 | 314:13,20 325:10 | upon | 252:17 261:25 |
| TV | underline | 223:12 317:7 | 262:10,10 263:20 |
| 238:13,19,20,20 | 229:16 | upstairs | 265:18 267:2,18 |
| 313:13 317:13 | understand | 309:18 | 271:20 274:24 |
| twice | 231:24 234:13,15 | us | 275:10,13 276:25 |
| 257:14 265:6 | 235:7 244:12 254:4 | 217:13 236:5,6 | 276:25 277:8 279:6 |
| two | 254:7 265:1 268:10 | 241:10 246:8 | 279:8 280:16,16 |
| 226:2,3,4,23 255:13 | 272:17 297:9 311:4 | 281:16 299:8 302:3 | 283:21 287:4 290:1 |
| 281:24 289:19 | 311:19 312:7,15 | 336:24 | 292:21 294:20 |
| 290:1 291:9,10 | 313:8 314:20 315:1 | use | 296:7 309:11 |
| 295:19 308:18 | 317:10,12 329:11 | 251:19,20 264:1 | 312:12 313:9 314:5 |
| type | 332:22 | 270:22 323:16 | 316:15 317:2 |
| 230:16 287:12 | understanding | 325:24,25 | 323:14 335:13,15 |
| types | 288:16 299:11 | used | 335:24 336:11,21 |
| 242:20 | 320:21 | 221:16 230:9 234:25 | view |
| typewriting | understatement | 246:23 257:11,12 | 296:8 297:20 299:22 |
| 338:5 | 310:11 | 281:5 | viewed |
| typically | understood | using | 315:13 |
| 305:20 | 264:22 276:21 | 254:10 294:6 301:23 | viewpoint |
| 000.20 | 295:10 | U.S | 296:15 |
| U | unhealthy | 216:10 | Vineyard |
| ubiquitous | 324:12 | 210110 | 259:8 |
| 287:23 | unintelligible | V | Virgin |
| Uh-huh | 280:19 | V | 276:4 |
| 274:21 | United | 217:1 | visit |
| uh-uh | 216:1,5 | vacations | 260:9 274:4 319:24 |
| 318:13 | university | 312:14 | visited |
| ultimately | 278:12 | value | 270:10 |
| 308:8 323:15 | unlimited | 318:20 | visiting |
| Um | 282:1 | varied | 239:12 |
| | 202.1 | | 239.12 |
| | | | |
| | 1 | I | rage 51 |
|--------------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------|
| W | 318:8 319:1,12 | weekend | 321:10 333:21,24 |
| W | 321:1 324:2 335:21 | 316:16 | weren't |
| 217:1 | watching | weird | 277:10 297:24,25 |
| wait | 325:12 | 219:7 252:9 311:2 | 316:8 |
| 227:21 | way | 331:10 | Wexner |
| walked | 220:4 222:6 223:11 | well | 229:16,21,22 242:22 |
| 328:3,8 | 224:2 229:18 | 217:22 221:2,9,18,24 | 281:3,4,8 283:6,7 |
| want | 230:11 232:2 | 227:21 228:6,7 | 283:16 |
| 219:6,19 220:12,14 | 239:25 244:21 | 229:2,19,21 230:13 | Wexner's |
| 229:15,22 235:14 | 251:13 257:17,18 | 232:10 233:11,16 | 282:22 283:13 |
| 235:16 236:13 | 264:2 265:13,14 | 237:22,25 238:4,8 | we'll |
| 238:2 243:11,21 | 267:11,12 287:14 | 238:12 239:2,20 | 218:7 253:13 281:14 |
| 244:4,11 247:17 | 291:24 296:6 | 240:3 241:7,8,17 | 285:17 291:9 300:4 |
| 255:4,17 258:6 | 299:15 305:11 | 243:1 245:2,21 | 336:19,25 |
| 259:4,5 264:10,23 | 310:4 313:10 317:4 | 246:12,15 247:10 | we're |
| 268:9 271:17 | 318:18 321:13 | 249:5 251:3,6 | 218:5,16 222:4 234:2 |
| 274:16 284:1,3 | 333:17 334:4 | 255:19 257:5 | 234:3 241:11,23 |
| 285:23,25 287:10 | 335:19 | 260:18,25 261:6,18 | 242:4 244:2 245:12 |
| 289:24 290:11,16 | we | 264:8 267:1,3 268:5 | 252:14 279:7 |
| 293:2,7 295:10,13 | 217:6,12,24 218:1,15 | 270:6,10,10,14 | 281:16 290:12 |
| 298:22,25 299:1,7 | 218:17,18,18,22 | 271:20 274:15,17 | 293:19 295:5 |
| 302:1,1,2,8 307:5 | 220:15 224:6,11 | 275:2 277:20 280:6 | 299:14 300:3 |
| 315:3,20 318:14,15 | 225:10,10,14,15,20 | 280:16 284:1,4,14 | 305:15 313:20 |
| 319:5 321:24 327:9 | 227:5 234:2,12 | 284:25 285:13 | 316:3,4 318:11 |
| 327:10,17 328:16 | 235:15 236:5,6,13 | 288:4,10,20 291:17 | 320:10 325:8 |
| wanted | 237:4,5 238:25 | 292:18 298:21 | 336:14 |
| 218:21 219:18 | 240:11,25 241:1 | 303:19 307:21 | we've |
| 224:23 248:10,11 | 242:8 249:8 256:4 | 309:24 313:4 | 224:11 245:14 |
| 264:6 276:22 | 261:24 263:10 | 314:24 315:13 | 274:11,13 285:21 |
| 280:24 291:16 | 266:18 267:8 | 319:24 320:10 | 310:13 314:4 325:8 |
| 293:1 318:22 | 268:18,24 274:8,11 | 321:23 323:13 | whatever |
| 320:16 336:23 | 274:19 280:7 | 325:6,19 | 222:5 228:1 230:10 |
| wants | 281:17 285:13,19 | went | 257:7 270:23 |
| 318:22 | 285:25 294:25 | 220:12 231:19,21 | 277:11 284:4,6 |
| war | 297:11,17 298:3,4 | 233:8 235:15 | 285:10 287:11 |
| 279:21,23,24 280:4 | 300:3 307:9 312:10 | 236:10 240:25 | 295:13 298:5 |
| warmth | 313:10 315:21 | 241:1 243:8 248:2 | 316:21 324:16,16 |
| 321:23,24 | 318:12 319:16 | 248:12 250:5 | 326:1 |
| warrant | 320:13,19 321:22 | 253:16 255:12 | whatnot |
| 322:6 | 323:12 331:16 | 256:4,10,12,14,15 | 285:6 |
| wasn't | 333:3 336:8,9,12,18 | 256:18 258:16 | what's |
| 222:16,17 229:20 | 336:18,19,23 | 259:18 261:11 | 220:24,24 238:12,13 |
| 230:16 264:11,12 | wealth | 265:12 270:13 | 262:13 277:24 |
| 306:1,3,8 311:20 | 284:5 | 271:22 272:14 | 320:21 322:20 |
| 315:16 317:20 | week | 276:9,10,12 308:18 | whenever |
| | 286:11 306:8,9 | 312:14 315:6 318:7 | 299:12 |
| | I | I | I |
| when's | 262:13 273:5 | 0.000 | |
|----------------------------------------|---------------------|---------------------------------|---------------------|
| | | 257.14.263.19 | word |
| 258:15 266:21,22 | 275:23,24,24 | 257:14 263:1,9
265:16 287:23 | 220:17 222:6 251:19 |
| 319:2 | 276:23 287:10 | 293:18 296:15 | 270:23 285:10 |
| where | 288:21 289:2,9,16 | 318:23 | 323:16 325:24 |
| 223:25 248:13 270:8 | | | words |
| | 289:20 290:19 | willing | |
| 278:15 285:11 | 292:11 294:17 | 336:24 | 221:15 286:9 326:1 |
| 286:22 287:12 | 295:14,23 300:7,19 | wise | 329:15 |
| 288:23 289:19 | 300:21 301:12,12 | 310:19 | work |
| 295:7 299:8 308:25 | 301:19,21 302:21 | witch | 224:17,18 225:5 |
| 313:12 316:8,9 | 302:22 303:17 | 317:8 | 239:22 246:23 |
| 322:10,24 328:2 | 306:23 307:23 | within | 249:10 263:23 |
| 334:24 336:3 | 309:7 310:22 | 227:6 230:12 | 282:6 285:12 301:9 |
| whether | 311:22,22 313:16 | without | 312:4 336:18 |
| 220:3 222:4 229:3,23 | 314:12,13 315:6,10 | 249:21 251:3 253:5 | worked |
| 237:10 239:4 240:2 | 315:16,17 317:12 | 255:20 298:16 | 248:23 254:19 |
| 240:8,13 244:19 | 317:24,25 318:20 | 300:3 321:14 | working |
| 245:25 250:23 | 326:19 329:21 | witness | 219:22 224:19 256:2 |
| 258:9 260:8,15 | 331:2,6 333:25 | 335:16 | 257:21 326:19 |
| 268:10 269:7,22 | 336:22 | witnessed | world |
| 270:13 272:9 274:1 | whoa | 330:15 | 279:21 297:20 |
| 276:14 280:20 | 254:2 | witnesses | worth |
| 291:23 296:25 | whoever | 221:6 | 244:8 |
| 298:11 299:9,10 | 287:18 | woman | wouldn't |
| 321:14 325:12 | whole | 245:5 292:16 301:21 | 222:2 227:9 232:18 |
| 328:8 329:20 331:3 | 255:19 284:5 327:23 | 305:6 327:18 328:7 | 233:2,19 239:25 |
| 335:18,19 | whom | women | 264:5 266:15,15 |
| which | 223:17 | 223:17 235:10 | 269:2 273:14 |
| 225:14 244:7,9 248:1 | who's | 244:15 286:2,12,25 | 276:11 305:24 |
| 248:4 272:25 280:1 | 277:3 289:24,25 | 287:1,1,2,4,6 | 306:13 309:4,5,22 |
| 281:8 282:13 | why | 288:21 289:2,9,14 | would've |
| 283:18 284:8 | 220:25 222:24 223:3 | 289:16,19 291:12 | 243:11 251:4 265:13 |
| 290:12 291:17 | 223:3,15 225:9 | 291:22 295:2,14,15 | 265:14 |
| 294:11 296:20 | 228:8 250:4,10,11 | 295:23 298:10,17 | writing |
| 297:4,13 315:23 | 250:15 259:20 | 298:21,24 299:2 | 332:3 |
| 318:19 323:2 | 267:21 272:3 | 302:17 303:1 | wrong |
| 333:17 336:9 | 278:25 280:23 | 306:23 307:22 | 236:8 251:19 259:9 |
| while | 283:25 285:13 | 308:10 310:6,8,9,23 | wrote |
| 253:20 280:21 | 290:12 297:15 | 313:7,15,17 314:1 | 331:21 |
| 281:21 316:22 | 311:4 321:18 | 314:12,13,19,20 | 551.21 |
| 317:14 | wide | 315:16 316:5 | х |
| 517.14 | 241:11 | | x |
| 246:23 252:7 | | 319:11 320:1 | 222:3 |
| | wife | 326:18,23 | 222.3 |
| who | 241:8,13 | won
270-21 | Y |
| 219:2 240:1 248:15 | will | 279:21 | yacht |
| 7/1X1/1 7/4 7/50101/5 | 217:20 218:13 | won't | |
| 248:21,23 250:16
250:24 251:5 262:2 | 232:23 245:3 | 257:15 | 232:20 |
| yea | 263:21 265:17 | 295:2,15 298:17,24 | 231:25 237:19,20 |
|---------------------|----------------------|----------------------------------------|---------------------|
| 332:11 | 268:12,19,21 | 311:7,8 | 257:18 267:10 |
| yeah | 269:19 271:7 272:1 | your | 286:19,20 297:22 |
| 225:21 227:25 | 273:23 280:14 | 217:14 218:8 220:16 | 200.17,20 277.22 |
| 228:21 231:24 | 289:2 290:3,9 | 220:20 221:22,23 | Z |
| 233:5 235:3 238:17 | 295:21 299:2,20 | 223:4,5,23,25 230:1 | zone |
| 242:18 243:2 246:5 | 303:13,16 304:23 | 231:16,19 232:11 | 293:12 |
| 246:9 248:7 250:2 | 307:16 309:16 | 232:13 233:7 234:8 | |
| 252:16 256:5 | 311:2 315:9 316:18 | 232:13 235:7 234:8 | \$ |
| 259:25 263:5 | 319:7 323:21,25 | 240:6 243:18 | \$18 |
| 265:25 273:24 | 324:7 325:2 326:1 | 245:16 250:12 | 233:22 |
| 276:3 277:22 | 326:16,20,20 | | \$18.3 |
| | 332:15 333:10,12 | 254:9,9,9,13,14,16
254:24 263:12,13 | 233:22 234:3 |
| 284:21 285:15 | | | \$25,000 |
| 288:24 289:22 | yesterday | 264:7,12 266:12,12 | 220:18 224:6 |
| 290:4,10,10,10,15 | 217:12 218:1,6,16,22 | 270:22 273:18 | \$250,000 |
| 292:20,24 293:2,2,8 | 219:15,16 220:15 | 279:11 284:10 | 220:19 224:7 |
| 293:8 296:13 | 223:21 235:15 | 286:9,22 292:14 | \$30 |
| 297:15 300:13,13 | 238:4 239:16,23 | 295:6 302:8 306:3,3 | 220:24 234:6 235:8 |
| 303:10 307:12 | 242:15 245:2 263:7 | 308:6 318:20,20 | \$5 |
| 311:11,15 312:23 | 266:20 271:18 | 320:21 327:7,9 | 222:14 233:14 234:4 |
| 316:12,25 327:14 | 274:20 279:20 | 329:15 330:1 | \$500,000 |
| 327:14,15 337:1 | 281:17 283:2 286:3 | 331:12,21 336:7,19 | 224:9 |
| year | 286:8 294:25 295:5 | yours | \$7 |
| 220:19 233:10 | 308:6 315:22 | 232:14 | 231:15,22 232:19 |
| 235:24 237:6 | 323:13 330:10 | yourself | 233:9 |
| years | 331:17 335:6 336:7 | 296:2 | \$7.4 |
| 220:18,22 223:14 | 336:8 | Your's | 230:24 234:5 |
| 224:3 233:12 234:4 | yet | 245:23 | 250.24 254.5 |
| 243:17,18 253:5,10 | 336:17 | you'd | 1 |
| 257:21 305:19 | yippee | 232:6 334:1 | 10:35 |
| 310:14 323:23 | 232:19 | you'll | 285:17,18 |
| 324:15 327:12 | York | 217:14 232:23,24 | 10:49 |
| 334:18 | 217:6 259:8 266:7,19 | 279:10 | 285:20 |
| Yep | 270:13 273:21 | you're | 11 |
| 245:11 268:22 | 305:23,24,25 310:8 | 221:23 222:15 | 235:25 |
| yes | 319:21 321:10 | 226:15 232:12 | 11:31 |
| 217:21 219:17 | 322:5 329:24 335:2 | 234:1,1 235:10 | 320:11,12 |
| 229:12 230:2,5,5 | 335:4,24 | 246:18 253:22,22 | 11:49 |
| 234:13 236:19 | young | 256:7 264:17 265:8 | 320:12,15 |
| 238:6,10,21 240:4 | 223:17 235:10 | 265:9 270:22 | 12 |
| 241:19,25,25 | 244:15 291:12 | 292:18 294:10 | 228:23 332:14 |
| 243:20 245:19,21 | 292:12 293:14 | 302:10 307:11,14 | 12:05 |
| 246:25,25 247:21 | 294:1 302:17 | 311:21 314:18,18 | 337:4,5 |
| 248:25 253:12 | 308:10 310:6 | 317:1,24 325:7 | 14 |
| 254:16,21,25 | 317:24 | 327:4 332:13 | 292:3,12 293:22 |
| 256:24 259:2,12,14 | younger | you've | |
| | - | - | - |
| | | | 2 |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---|
| 294:3 332:14,24
15
292:3 293:23 294:3
332:14
16
258:18 292:3 293:16
293:22,24 294:3
314:13
16-year-old
293:23
17
258:18 292:3,4,5
314:13
18
258:18 292:16
294:10,10,12,20
295:15,25 318:1
19
241:15 314:10
1980s
241:24 242:5
1994
299:11
1999
233:22
2
300:4 | 222:14 233:14,15
234:4 247:17,18
2003
247:18 331:16
2007
230:19,24 231:7
233:12 234:5 235:9
319:5,6,9,13
2009
317:4
2010
235:25 237:1
2025
216:2 312:11
21
294:19
24
227:6
25
216:2 225:16
25th
217:4 285:20 337:4
3
3
300:5
30
236:8 | 67
227:10
7
71st
334:14
8
80s
242:3 244:2
9
9:24
217:4
90s
227:21 243:9 244:3
266:25 271:13,25
275:3 280:22
299:12 300:25
302:21 308:15
314:4 323:23 324:1
91
229:18 300:4
92
302:16
93
243:11 302:16
94
243:12 | |
| 20
294:19
20s
295:14 309:12
2000
258:18 302:16
308:11
2000s
243:9 244:3 245:18
246:2 247:12,22
266:25 271:13
275:3,5 299:12
307:4 308:5 311:21
314:4,10
2001
302:16 308:11
2002 | 4
4
300:5
40
236:7
5
299:12 300:5
50
225:16 236:8 334:11
6
300:5
63
227:10 | 98
301:10
99
234:4 235:8 301:10
302:16 | |
